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A Fan Hits A Midnight Show Of SAW IV, Then Sends In His Report!
Hey, everyone. ”Moriarty” here.
Lionsgate hasn’t been showing this one to critics, and they’ve already declared this “SAW weekend.” I’m sure they’re right in terms of the film opening big.
I would imagine that the person who could best tell us whether it’s actually worth the money is the sort of fan who would go to a midnight screening of the movie. They’re the ones who are really excited to see it, and they’re bound to have some opinion on it, right?
Check out what this guy just had to say:
Hey Harry…
Just got out of the midnight screening of SAW IV. Not a great film, but a respectable entry in the franchise nonetheless.
A lot of your opinion of this film is obviously going to hang on your opinion of the first 3 but if you liked what you saw in those films, there's enough material in the fourth installment to keep you satisfied. If you break all the films down and look at the common elements, the two biggest things that jump out at me are theme and chronology. It seems like both of those play major parts in all the films. You can look at the first film as the main setup, the intro, while the second film focused more on connections and common ground. The third is a pretty sweet take on revenge and it's consequences, while the fourth's main artery is the concept of trying to help and save others and how that can sometimes come at your own expense.
There were some pacing issues, a few points where it felt a bit slow but there's no dragging second act or anything and all things considered, the narrative jumps between the storylines fairly well. A good amount of time is spent on backstory, which really opens up the Jigsaw character and explores his motivations and early forays into the traps that became his trademark. I really got into these clips and Tobin Bell put in another solid performance that anchored the film.
I would have liked to see more emphasis on Jigsaw's relationship with Amanda. That's one thing that SAW III touched on, but I wanted to know more about what happened there. There's still a good amount of detail that could get flushed out and make that a more interesting, dynamic relationship. Thankfully, it toned down the amount of fast-paced quick cuts that infiltrated several key scenes in SAW III. There are still a few but I didn't find them nearly as distracting this time around.
The one really negative part of the film for me was FBI Agent Strahm who is a clichéd cookie-cutter asshole cop, one-dimensional and frankly pretty annoying. This guy got on my nerves from scene one and it was down-hill from there. Not like we need a layered, nuanced Oscar worthy supporting role from this guy or anything, but he just didn't ring true to me. He launches into some verbal tirades that seem pretty unfounded and therefore unrealistic.
There were some decent traps this time around, though the first one is easily my favorite…that trap that makes you go "Oh……OH…shit!" Definitely gets things started on the right foot. Pretty good SAW film, there's a lot to like here for fans of the series. It'll be interesting to see if they give it another go and where they might try to take things from here.
Billy Sunday
Just got out of the midnight screening of SAW IV. Not a great film, but a respectable entry in the franchise nonetheless.
A lot of your opinion of this film is obviously going to hang on your opinion of the first 3 but if you liked what you saw in those films, there's enough material in the fourth installment to keep you satisfied. If you break all the films down and look at the common elements, the two biggest things that jump out at me are theme and chronology. It seems like both of those play major parts in all the films. You can look at the first film as the main setup, the intro, while the second film focused more on connections and common ground. The third is a pretty sweet take on revenge and it's consequences, while the fourth's main artery is the concept of trying to help and save others and how that can sometimes come at your own expense.
There were some pacing issues, a few points where it felt a bit slow but there's no dragging second act or anything and all things considered, the narrative jumps between the storylines fairly well. A good amount of time is spent on backstory, which really opens up the Jigsaw character and explores his motivations and early forays into the traps that became his trademark. I really got into these clips and Tobin Bell put in another solid performance that anchored the film.
I would have liked to see more emphasis on Jigsaw's relationship with Amanda. That's one thing that SAW III touched on, but I wanted to know more about what happened there. There's still a good amount of detail that could get flushed out and make that a more interesting, dynamic relationship. Thankfully, it toned down the amount of fast-paced quick cuts that infiltrated several key scenes in SAW III. There are still a few but I didn't find them nearly as distracting this time around.
The one really negative part of the film for me was FBI Agent Strahm who is a clichéd cookie-cutter asshole cop, one-dimensional and frankly pretty annoying. This guy got on my nerves from scene one and it was down-hill from there. Not like we need a layered, nuanced Oscar worthy supporting role from this guy or anything, but he just didn't ring true to me. He launches into some verbal tirades that seem pretty unfounded and therefore unrealistic.
There were some decent traps this time around, though the first one is easily my favorite…that trap that makes you go "Oh……OH…shit!" Definitely gets things started on the right foot. Pretty good SAW film, there's a lot to like here for fans of the series. It'll be interesting to see if they give it another go and where they might try to take things from here.
Billy Sunday
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Im not to keen on this new Saw film every year malarky!
I have seen the first 2 and the second one for me was a bit of a mess!
Wouldnt mind seeing Carey Elwes come back sometime though!! -
Garbage, garbage, garbage. No tension, intelligence, drive... It's extremely dispiriting that people go to them only to see the torture bar pushed higher and higher. You'd have thought everyone had learnt their lesson with the atrocity that was 'Hostel', but no, they keep queuing up.
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Yeeeeaaaaaah!
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But still think SAW II was the best thus far. They're definitely getting more sadistic, too.
Any chance of some spoilers??? -
Its this generations Horror the same way Scream and I know what you did last summer was to the 90s.
It gets old and pretty soon will have a negative backlash.
Im saying this one makes money but it looks like there skipping next halloween and when Saw 5 comes around the boox office failure will be felt. -
With the slim to poor horror pickings at the box office this October, Trick or Treat really went the wrong route of waiting until next year. Hearing a tepid Saw review. God, I want good horror dammit!
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This series can't sustain interest forever. There's only so much you can do with Jigsaw's story. It could end up the way of the Elm St franchise *shudder*
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This movie was a complicated mess. I haven't really been impressed by any of the SAW movies except for the third one, though the original had a great ending, but this was just too ridiculous and seemed to serve no purpose other than to continue milking this franchise. There's a lot of gore in this movie if that's what you're into but I'd prefer a coherent story over excessive amounts of blood and guts. The "twist" was so anticlimactic considering how little we knew or even cared about the character they chose to focus on. Seriously, the highlight of the evening was seeing the crowd react to the new RAMBO trailer.
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And how did the crowd react to the new trailer?
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I just wanted to reiterate what some of the other talkbackers have mentioned about this film. SAW III had the most involving story and probably the strongest performances out of the entire series. I wasn't too thrilled with the ending, which I actually thought was a little too bleak, but some of the themes that it dealt with such as forgiveness were a welcome surprise for a franchise that seemed to be entirely built around it's inventive traps and gore. It's not the greatest horror film but it was certainly the strongest of the four movies in this series.
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A few chuckles in the audience at first but once Rambo started kicking ass it was all cheers from the crowd. It could very well end up being another hit for Stallone.
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Saw VIII - Jigsaw Takes Manhattan
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1 was pretty draggy but still good. i like the gore but the plot twists, and jigsaws backstory is what i really like
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I wonder if Snakes On A Plane can be considered as "Snakebite Porn" and Rambo as "Shooting And Explosion Porn". I think the Scream trilogy might be "Stab Porn" while Shrek is "Popcultural reference Porn".
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For god's sake, this is the fourth instalment of a horror series! Are they not contractually obliged to take Saw into space at this point? Do they not understand the rules of ongoing horror stories?People would like, I think, too see thinly drawn characters having their skins ripped off and arms twisted out the sockets in space. Zero gravity blood and bone splinters and whatnot! Also, lasers. You could torture the shit out of some guy who's on drugs or whathaveyou with lasers.Come on, makers of the Saw series of not very scary horror films. You're missing out on a goldmine here!
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"There were only about 50 people who came to the midnight showing of SAW IV. and once the Rambo trailer came on, and once the narrorator said "you know his name", I heard lots of shouts of "F U C K I N G RAMBO!". which is good."
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The screening I went to was pretty packed. The first trailer was the new longer I AM LEGEND trailer. That got great audience reactions, seemed like people were really excited about that. Especially the kid at the end who looked at his girlfriend and said loud enough for all to hear "Oh we're so fucking rocking that shit!" When RAMBO came up it took people a minute to realize that it was a RAMBO trailer. But then there were all kinds of loud comments. My favorites were "But it's not Stallone right?" and then when Sly came on screen "Isn't he like 65?" The age comment didn't seem negative though. I mean Sly is running all over the place and killing a lot of people in the this trailer, and despite the cheesy text animations that look like leftovers from the SNAKES ON A PLANE graphics department, this still looks very BADASS. A triple feature with SON OF RAMBOW sandwiched between FIRST BLOOD and this new RAMBO film would be awesome!
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Thanks Billy. I always like to see a well thought out review even if the movie doesn't necessarily knock you on your ass. Sounds like there are some things I will enjoy about the fourth undertaking. Thanks for posting this Mr. Sunday. These are the characteristics of AICN reviewer baddie!
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I re-watched all 3 this week and I have to agree that Saw III is the strongest in the series. The actress who played the doctor (just woke up, too lazy to imdb it) gave hands down the greatest performance so far (compare it to Carey Elwes in the first one. I love the guy — I mean he was Wesley and friggin Robin Hood fer Christ's sake — but Jesus he phoned that one in)... Plus Shawneee Smith and Tobin Bell did easily their best acting of the trilogy and the story was great. Bousman is definitely a superior director to Wan. Only problem with III was over-exposition, but every single entry in the series has shared that flaw. Hope Saw IV delivers as well.
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because then I can more easily discern who the complete fucktards are. The Saw movies are super boring and I can't believe they continue to make money.
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The best thing to come out of this is a new song by X-Japan, scientific fact. There's no evidence or anything like that, but it is scientific fact.
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Come on, you know horror fans are a pretty forgiving bunch in the quality department... It's Halloween, man, not Oscar season...
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I've had it tuned to MonsterFest since Monday even though, aside from the original Halloween, Hellraiser and Creepshow, they haven't aired a single good movie
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I'm a horror fan too. I just can't understand the Saw fascination.
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I loved the first film. The second film a lot of people in my theatre walked out on - myself included. But not before I had the whole movie/ending pegged...what a waste of time. I enjoyed the third film, but would never eclipse the first one. I might...just might go see this one. Or sometime soon...
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You are a horror fan? You sound more like an elitist douche. God forbid someone like something you don't.
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Here it is, and I say this as a fan of the series: The Saw films, much like The Butterfly Effect (which has an inexplicable cult following) are movies that make dumb people feel smart. Saws 1-3 have basically one densely-plotted intricately-weaved storyline, and even though the expository scenes are so ham-fisted that even the world's dimmest fucktard could follow along, they are doing something reasonably different with the genre. It may have started out as a Fincher rip-off, but the series has definitely come into its own. Like it or loathe it, Jigsaw is this decade's entry to the Jason/Michael/Freddy/Pinhead/Ghostface Killer echeleon
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That is until it makes huge money and a few years go by and the studio head are playing with their rolodexes and come across Jean-Pierre Jeunet's business card.I actually like these movies despite having terrible acting and cheesy hackish MTV directing. They succeed for me on the sheer basis of plot twisting alone, normally something I don't even like in movies. I also like how each film has a radically different plot structure and set up.And at least this is a sequel without the word "RISE" in the title.
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The tune "Hello Zepp" that plays during the *tweest* reveal at the end of each film rivals the Halloween theme in both its simplicity and its catchiness. You know when you hear that shit that you're about to be told everything (that is, if you haven't already figured it out).
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but yes, they're torture porn. The third one was especially depressing. Even if you knew (mild spoilers) that Amanda was "fixing" traps so there was no escape, it's not as if Jigsaw is so noble, either. He didn't want to be called a murderer, yet his traps didn't exactly allow for people to escape without some self-mutilation, and the very high chance of death. It's like the story wants you to sympathize with Jig and understand what he's doing. But you can't, because he really is a murderer.
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Someone has yet to say it?
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I had only seen the original and had free time to check out the 8-hour "Saw Marathon" of all 4 films including the new one that was playing in a number of theaters nationwide yesterday. I was impressed at how everything adds up and builds on itself - it's not fine art, but it's clever enough to merit a look, and seeing everything back-to-back-to-back-to-back was definitely a way that made some sense out of the series.
**A FEW SPOILERS**
- I think it's interesting how there's kind of a "torch passing" from film to film, with background characters in earlier installments showing up as main characters in later films. Whether this was planned LONG in advance or whether the creative team is ret-conning everything every step of the way, it seems to add up and is becoming almost Dickensian in the density of character overlaps. The SWAT cop Rigg was a major supporting character in Saw 2&3, and as one of the last men standing, is essentially the main character of Saw 4.
- The flashbacks with Tobin Bell give a LOT of backstory to Jigsaw's motivations. After he appeared to die at the end of Saw 3, I was surprised that he was so closely involved in the story, to be honest. Whether he remains in future installments, I don't know. The first scene in Saw 4 - a very lengthy, squirm-inducing autopsy of Jigsaw - really seemed designed to make the point that this guy is really dead.
Keep in mind that the way this movie concludes, Jigsaw's services appear to no longer be required to keep future Saw movies going.
I was also surprised that the game mentioned in the closing scene of Saw 3 (which I figured would form a major part of Saw 4) never really seemed to happen - or if it did, it happened to someone other than the last person standing in Saw 3.
- A lot of people lump the Saw films into the "torture porn" phenomenon, but I'd say that's unfair. I see these as "vengeance puzzles," and while the character of Amanda gravitated toward making this into torture porn - and I guess did for parts of Saw 3 - Saw 4 brings the motivation further away. Personally, I didn't get the sense that the suffering in this movie or the others was meant to be entertaining, but that it was meant to make you squirm and think "wow, that would be terrible." For me, that's a fine line, but an important one. FYI, the audience I saw this with was never cheering for deaths or laughing about them - which to me suggests they weren't there to see people killed in terrible ways.
- Last but not least, the reaction to the "Rambo" trailer was . . . not good. The theater I was in was about 80% full, and when Stallone's face appeared onscreen, there was derisive laughter. Having seen the earlier trailer - the bloody rough cut that Stallone leaked months ago - I was disappointed with the official trailer, which captured none of the brutality or intensity that I'm expecting to see in the final cut. I think the overall audience reaction to the "Rambo" trailer was negative and I would recommend trying out the more brutal version if possible. I mean hell, this audience was there to see SAW - they're not going to get offended at blood. Probably the opposite. -
It's not a quaestion of SAW 4 making big bucks. Everybody knows it will. SAW 5 actually starts filming soon. David Hackl replaces Darren Lynn Bousman as director. They are still working on the script for SAW 6. Tobin Bell has been signed up to SAW 6 for a couple months now.
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Once Saw gets better acting like it did in the first with Cary (and of course, Tobin Bell is genius), then Saw will be respected again.
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How are the saw movies any crazier than other horror films we love? Saw features torture (even though one wasnt torture mostly, but a puzzle to solve and 2 had traps, and only they were semi-tortuous) and typical horror movies feature brutal, evil killings. Same thing is being done, murder in a graphic way. Sure, stories are better in some than others, but Freddy/Jason/Michael all fuck up some bitches pretty bad, Jigsaw just traps people (and whether or not it is losing this aspect, they are bad people he wants to realize they should have a better life). Even good ol John Carpenter in EW recently said he likes the Saw movies. He said they were fun, quirky movies. And they are. Certainly no Exorcist, but damn if the Saw movies dont entertain me watching people get killed and twists happen than Nightmare on Elm Street has me loving Freddy's most fucked up killings. Loosen up people, its not torture porn that is a problem, its films like Captivity that are just shitty.
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Yup, it's definitely Costas Mandylor. Had to check IMDB for the spelling. And yes, SAW III is certainly the best entry to date. I thought the motivations that were shown could have helped finalize a mindset that was already in the making, and it's pretty clear from some things that his ex-wife says that he had many of the tendencies that make him so good at laying his traps before the events that pushed him over the edge...being an obsessive planner, agonizing over details, ordering things according to his time table, even her pregnancy which I thought wsa pretty strange. I can't even imagine how that conversation might have gone. All that said, TRICK R TREAT looked really cool. I was sad when it dropped off the Fantastic Fest line up for this year, the photo of the kids on the school bus in costumes had been a mainstay on the website for several months leading up to the Festival. Currently slated for a release sometime in 2008, I wouldn't be surprised if they held off until next Halloween to capitalize on the timing. Shame though, I'd love to see it sooner. Maybe it will end up at a festival screening sometime next year.
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I saw it last night too and while it has its moments, it sucked overall. These movies all come down to the big twist at the end and none of the sequels have been able to duplicate the success of the original in that regard. The movie makes no sense. It's still shot with this MTV-on-Steroids style editing. The performances all suck except for Jigsaw and a strung out drug addict who ruins his marriage by opening a door. I completely agree with Soylent Mean about Trick r Treat. It's a sad sign of the times when an original-looking horror movie gets bumped off its target release date in favor of this crap. I'm all for movies like this, but have a little pride, Lionsgate. This is a tired exercise in cheap thrills. Sure there is some fun carnage, but on the whole, this movie isn't worth your time. I stayed up til 4:30 am last night writing a 1700 word review but this is the review we're running today and it inexplicably gives Bousman a pass. Ugh! Hostel 2 had more creativity in its fingernail than this shit does. As of now, Lionsgate plans to take a year off next year so it doesn't milk its cash cow franchise too soon, but I'm sure this weekend's opening numbers will make them change their mind. By the way, I was shocked by how many women there were at the Grove last night at midnight. Maybe it's because the Saw movies aren't actually scary, but I was surprised it wasn't a male-dominated audience. I'm sure that is music to Lionsgate's ears.
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wait a sec dude, i just went back and read your whole post and there's NO WAY Saw III is superior to the original Saw. The original was a work of minor brilliance. The sequels have all been garbage. Lame attempts to milk a hot franchise. There's no depth to them. Only shitty, unlikable characters spouting laughably bad dialogue. The kills are all fun, don't get me wrong, Saw delivers the goods it promises in that regard, but every film ends with a lackluster twist that can't top the original on any level whatsoever, and to even suggest that a Saw sequel is better than original shows a seriously poor taste.
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the more you learn about jigsaw, the less interesting he becomes. his backstory is interesting, but only because tobin bell makes it interesting. he's actually much better than he gets credit for. He really gets a chance to shine in Saw IV because it shows him before he went psycho. But the rest of the movie is such a contrived, convoluted mess, and the chronology is especially baffling. Nothing makes sense and the film stretches believability a countless number of times. the lead is so unappealing, there's no one to root for, i could go on but it's not worth it
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Sweet fucking Jesus are you ever off base. Saw III is full of perfomances far better than any (second) horror sequel has any right to: Bahar Soomekh conveys a realistic sense of both terror and compassion toward her patient. I can honestly say I gave a shit when her noggin popped like a water balloon. Shawnee Smith plays batshit crazy to the nines, this time with lines that (for once in the series) don't sound like they were written by a fucking 12 year old. The cops (for once in the series) don't sound like they're regurgitating 15-year-old Law and Order scripts verbatim (seriously, the 'procedural' dialogue in the first two movies is beyond laughable). Donnie Wahlberg, a capable actor who just went through the motions in part 2, completely atoned for his sleepwalking in part 3 with only about five fucking minutes of screen time ("You're not Jigsaw, bitch!") ... And Tobin Bell, as always, was amazing. Now, all that said, what the fuck is so great about part one?? It's a toss-up for who gave their career's most embarrassing performance — Glover or Elwes. Obviously, both of them thought no one would ever see it. I don't know which sickened me more, Carey's over-emoting in the final reel or Glover's fucking incomprehensible mutterings while he stroked a fucking photograph of his dead parnter. I think Elwes wins out in the end, though, because I honestly don't know how the fuck some of those line readings made it into the final cut.
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I can at least say I was genuinely fucking surprised when Amanda hit the lights in that bathroom.
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Not one of them is nearly as clever as it thinks it is. They're exactly what I said up top: dumb movies with dumb plots dense enough to make dumb people feel smart. At best, they're passable Halloween entertainment. But this perceived drop-off in quality after part 1 is bullshit.
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that I havent seen IV yet.
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I go see every horror flick in the theaters, I cant help it. I almost went to see this today but I have no interest in seeing it because i know I wont enjoy it. Ill just watch Murder Party again.
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I didn't mean to be an ass and I'm sorry. Believe me, we're both tired. I went to bed at 5 and woke up at 9 to see Margot at the Wedding. I just couldn't believe someone could prefer Saw III to Saw. Saw III was forgettable, even if it did feature some cool kills. I couldn't really remember any of them when I walked into Saw IV, nor could I differentiate in my memory between those in Saw II and those in Saw III. I suspect all the sequels will just bleed together into one incoherent violent mess, but that original still stands on its own as one of the best twist endings I've ever seen. The Saw films really are built around those last-minute twists, and not the elaborate Rube Goldberg torture devices. If the twist sucks, the movie sucks, even if it offers some cool torture. Thus, all the Saw sequels suck, and in my not-published review, I go out of my way to say how Donnie Wahlberg is a talented actor, which is why I don't understand why he slums in this series. I mean, I understand taking a paycheck for Saw II, but why the fuck did he do this one when he's given nothing to do but kick and spit and yell 'who's coming through that door?!?' Lame-o, sorry gang.
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i just got murder party today. can't wait to watch it... cool!
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to answer this reviwer, they are giving the saws like 3 or 4 more goes..they are going to make saw 5 6 7 all one year apart like the previous 4.
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Maybe...just maybe...your review went unpublished because of the severe animosity and venom you recieve on a professional and personal level everytime you review something. I think people just don't like you or your opinions.Then again the tide around here fluctuates so damn fast its impossible to be cool all the time.
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What's with that anyway? They come in large groups to movies like Hostel 2 and I'm sure this will be the same.
As for saw 4, I guess I might see it since I get in for free anyway. We'll see. I'd rather spend two hours playing Guitar Hero 2.
btw, do I need to have watched saw 3 first? Because I watched saw 2 and that was awful. If 3 is worse, and this is even worse than that, Guitar hero it is. -
BIG surprise.
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you have to see each one of them as a piece of a puzzle. you get a piece at a time, and you make the connections as you go. it is clear to me now after seeing IV that until you see the series as a whole, you wont truley understand. you aren't meant to. yet. it is essentially one giant film. the twists are brilliant. i have to say that i for one was fooled by each movie.
i like these films because you have to see them more than once to see everything. minor details are often overlooked, leaving you scratching your head. JUST PAY ATTENTION! the GORE is some of the best ever put on film. the traps are amazing works of art. simply brilliant designs. jigsaw himself is so different from any other film psycho because while he may stack the odds against you, he WANTS you to survive. to save yourself through suffering. to endure. to dig deep and find the power to change your life. jigsaw is an inspired anti hero of this series.
SPOILER............................................................................................................................................................................................................
the events in saw 4 happen at exactly the same time as the events in saw 3. the jigsaw autopsy scene, while being the first thing you see in the film, is actually the last event in the film. on top of that, a n apprentice is revealed, and another possible successor fucks up big time and fails his test. the beginning is the end and a new apprentice begins his own test.... and you get a huge smack in the face. ANYONE can die in these films. ANYONE.
the first movie had the weakest acting by the way. i think the movies get slightly better as they go. if you didnt like saw 4, perhaps its not your kind of film or perhaps you didnt like the first one or 2 or 3 and you were predisposed to not like any that followed. some people just dont have the brain power to comprehend what they've just seen. i happen to love a movie that makes me want to see it again, just so i can see what i missed. its a total mindfuck. i fucking loved each and every one of these movies. my opinion. -
ok.. HOSTEL had alot of sex in it. and torture. so ok, yeah... torture porn. but um, no sex in saw movies. so the porn aspect.... i dont see it. its more of a torture puzzle series
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If you don't like it, great. But making absolute statements is ridiculous. And of course its not a film for critics, very few films are. They're made to make money, and the Saw series does.
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...whatever you want to say about this film, you can't deny that it has an INCREDIBLY loyal audience. No other studio has been able to replicate this kind of lucrative and dependable franchise, so hats off to Lionsgate and the creative (using the term loosely) team behind the SAW movies.
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Jesus dude. I'm sorry I kinda liked the movie. Next time I'll be sure to check in with you first to see what my opinion should be. Maybe you were trying to be a dick and maybe you were just pissed off about writing such a long review. I wasn't part of some cosmic plan to get my short review in before yours or anything. I'm sure you put a good piece together and since your opinion seems to be the opposite of mine, then I'd like to read it. If we all felt the exact same about every movie that came out it'd be a pretty fucking boring world. That's what makes movies so cool to me. You and I can go see the exact same film and have completely different reactions. I don't think you have to like the twists to like the movie. The first was great. When Tobin gets up off the floor it was fucking mind-blowing. The guy in the middle of the room was fucking dead, and we all knew it. He had been dead the whole time and I had personally kind of forgotten about him, just pushed him to the side of my mind as a minor plot point. And then he fucking stands up. You're totally right, it was very cool and a bit of mindfuck. It made you totally reanalyze what you had seen. Great stuff. I thought 2 was a bit of a stumble. I did figure out that it wasn't a live camera feed but I didn't even guess that Wahlberg's son would be sitting in a safe right next to Jigsaw. It didn't save the movie for me but I thought that was pretty cool. Weakest entry in the series in my opinion. Then there's III. I liked three a lot, but frankly, I thought the traps were pretty weak in comparison. I think what's so cool about SAW III is that aside from Amanda going nuts at the beginning (which is a factor later in story as Jigsaw realizes that she doesn't really get what he's trying to do....who fucking does, right?) all of the people in the traps have a good chance to live. But instead of it hanging on a terrible choice they have to make, their life is in the father's hands. He can decide to forgive and save each one of those three people. The sly entry of forgiveness into the picture is what made that one stand out a bit for me. You're right that none of the "twists" at the end of 2, 3, and 4 were anywhere near as mind-blowing as the first one. But I don't think they need to be. 4 is closer to 2 in that there's nothing new going on, the twist doesn't really matter because we don't know the character (at the end when you realized he was the one helping Jigsaw, I couldn't even remember his name). But the backstory is what anchors this one and made it worth seeing for me. I never said it was an amazing film, didn't say it was better than the first or anything crazy like that. But like I said, I think if you liked the first 3 then there's enough here to enjoy it. It's not great, and they may never make another great one, but I didn't think it was a horrible awful waste of time. As for Donnie Wahlberg, I remember reading somewhere that he really wanted to come back for SAW IV but initially he couldn't because of a scheduling conflict. Then that fell through, so they rewrote the script to be able to include his character. Obviously they didn't do a great job. Honestly, with the beard, I could hardly recognize him. Now, the screenshots from TRICK R TREAT look great. I can't fucking wait to see that. I love the poster http://www.impawards.com/2007/trick_r_treat.html it's got a great feel. Very creepy. Plus I love Dylan Baker. Anyone see him in HAPPINESS? That will fuck with you a little bit. Just ordered MURDER PARTY on Thursday, it's supposed to come in next week, so I'll definitely check that out.
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Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but here it goes. I agree with a lot of people here that the original Saw is a creative, surprising, well made movie. Saw II in my opinion was better than a typical sequel, and I was genuinely surprised at how much I enjoyed Saw III. These aren't just re-iterations of the same thing, each one actually expands upon the ideas, and adds details to the original movie, and they have complelling twists. To watch that scene in Saw III where it goes back to the original is great fun. Are there faults? Of course: the music, the editing, a lot of the acting, but I have enjoyed them, and I HATE torture porn. The trailer for Saw III just being that guy being tortured made me think it'd be shit, and although they may go a little to far at times, the torture isn't ALL they're offering. They do have a story. I refuse to believe that Hostel Part 2 could be better than Saw IV. Hostel was JUST torture, and that one scene of the woman with the scythe cutting the person open, and bathing in the blood is exactly what is wrong with horror films, and was probably the most offended I've been at a movie (not that I couldn't handle the content, but that basically a fetishistic porn was playing in mainstream theatres from a major studio), and the ending of Hostel with that stupid decapitation and soccer playing. Basically, Hostel, and generic torture porn like Wolf Creek or Turistas isn't scared. It makes you uncomfortable, disgusted, and think "it would suck to be in this situation", but it is not scary, and I hate how this is slowly what American horor is turning into. Now, I guess Saw isn't scary either, but at least they've got a complicated plot, and dare I say, intelligent twists (to an extent). And these sequels are actually continuing one idea. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can understand why some people hate Saw, but in my opinion, it's doing better, and trying more things than typical horror sequels. I'm sure by the point of 5 and 6, they'll have run out of ideas, but I'm glad they're trying, and I'm happy that 20 years from now, when some kid is having a Halloween party, he'll go to the horror section in a video store, and be able to rent all of Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, and all 8 Saw movies, and that contemporary times actually managed to create a horror franchise for later years.
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... would be to respect the linkage between each film. They were not a planned series. Each one is written from scratch and the retread of the previous film's plot is no more imaginative than when they show the last scenes from a Rocky movie in the next sequel. I disliked it that they returned to the bathroom from the first movie again and again. A new movie should move on, not just shamelessly revisit the successful parts of the last film.
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First off...and this is actually pretty bad...the last clue that Riggs was given was to "Go Home". Riggs pretty much assumed his wife was captured, because it showed a picture of his wife. However...for some strange reason, he figures out to go to the big building where everyone seems to meet up.
Number two. Jigsaw doll says that Strahm is going to kill an innocnet man, and what Perez does at the moment will be important. She does get blown up in the face...but after that part...there really is nothing for Perez to do, to stop the harm being done.
One of the dumbest things in the film was the entire, "This film is taking place at the same time of Saw 3". Reason being...Strahms interrogations with Jigsaw's wife. They keep accusing her of being Jigsaw. In fact, Strahm keeps saying, "Your husband WAS one of the biggest murderers this city has ever seen". WHy would they assume she's the new Jigsaw...if they don't even know Jigsaw's dead. In fact...none of them ever say, "we need to bring him down...or where is jigsaw"
Lastly...the whole end, and how it came together was rediculous. The "NEW" Jigsaw, (guy sitting in electric chair), set up the worst trap ever. Do you know how many things would have to go right for all of this to happen? Riggs only got there with one second left. Matthews easily could have survived. Then he just assumes that Straham and Jeff (from the 3rd film)would try to kill each other. Strahm's a cop...and Jeff just saw his wife killed. Jeff would be begging for help...not pointing a gun at a cop. Way too much relied on all of this. Then this new Jigsaw also relies that with Matthew's single bullet, he is going to shoot riggs, and riggs is going to now shoot at Matthews, but rather shoot at scar face (flashback attorney guy). Think of what would have happened if Riggs didn't get shot, and attorney didn't get shot. THey'd beat the hell out of new Jigsaw.
The whole ending was stupid...because so many factors had to happen on the dime, for all of this to work out. Pretty dumb if you ask me. star and a half out of 5 -
Oct 27, 2007 2:42:07 PM CDT
"(Jigsaw's) backstory is interesting, but only because tobin bel
by mattmanreturns
Almost ALL film villains suceed or fail depending on what the actor does with them. The Joker is interesting because of Jack's performance. Hannibal is interesting because of how Hopkins plays him. Anyway, thanks for yet again telling us what we should or shouldn't think, because we'd have a hard time of it by ourselves.
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And I will not see it.
After reading it all, the last 30 minutes of the movie are totally gay. I was hoping within Hoffman being in Saw 3, and doing his 'stealing' evidence thing did not mean he was going to be the new Jigsaw - for fucking out loud, I am really starting to think 3 should have been the end. BUT, the things I DO like about this movie is that they trick you at the beginning, I guess that was kind of nice.. -
The Saw sequels have been horrible with the exception of Tobin Bell. Set piece after set piece of torture porn does not interest me. I don't understand why anyone would pay to see this shit. Make it stop. Thanks.
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MiraJeff is correct. The only passable film was the first due to the clever concept and well-executed twist. These new films have offered nothing other than torture sequences with poorly acted characters. I. Don't. Care.
Saw 3 was the film that convinced me not to see any more. If that's a "superior" film, then we're in trouble. -
Why lambaste a film saying "Saw IV is shit, just like 2 and 3"? If you didn't like the sequels, chances are you're not going to like the new one. They're not reinventing the wheel here. If a girl annoys you on the second and third date, are you going for a fourth, hoping she'll change? If you hate a restaurant, do you keep going back hoping you'll finally like it? If you don't get it, move on. For those of us that enjoy the Saw franchise...Tobin Bell, the "puzzle" plots, the gradual expansion of the universe from movie to movie, the recurring characters, and yes how each movie builds up to a "twist"...Saw IV delivers.
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wife's rack saved this whole movie.
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I am a Major horror fan.I went to the midnight show on the 25th & was not very impressed. Love the 1st 3 Saw's. And it was not that gory either. Liked the parts with the backstory of Jigsaw, that held my interest, but the only parts that stick out to me were the autopsy (could have done without the junk shot,wasn't necessary). And the head crush. Maybe Saw 5 will be better. Rating, 2 out of four stars. It was way, way better than Bug though.
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