Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here. I said this in my review of LARS AND THE REAL GIRL, and I'm going to say it again here: Give this one a shot. This one gets the balance exactly right. It's sweet, innocent, but still dark and heartbreaking. Ryan Gosling is an absolutely master of finding the heart and soul of any character and making you care so deeply for Lars. After the debacle that was the production of MR. WOODCOCK, director Craig Gillespie took a step back from bigger studio work to make this film. If you're going to judge him as a director, judge him based on LARS AND THE REAL GIRL. I had a nice chat with Craig when he was in town during the Chicago International Film Festival. Enjoy.

Capone: I think LARS AND THE REAL GIRL is going to surprise a lot of people. I think you’re hoping that it will surprise a lot of people.

Craig Gillespie: Have you seen it?

C: Oh, yeah, yeah. The thing that surprised me the most was that I was how close I was to crying at the end. And, I never cry in movies, so…

CG: I failed. [laughs]

C: No, there were plenty of tear-stricken people in the theater when I saw it. One thing I wanted to tell you: right after the film, somebody near me who did like the film was a little put off because and said something like, "It’s kind of a gloss of how mentally ill people are." And, certainly, Lars will be viewed as mentally ill or delusional. But, that's almost like saying that a kid with an imaginary friend is mentally ill. It doesn’t quite stick. How did you view Lars?

CG: We sort of started to go down that road of mentally ill people and their process and what they would being going through and then decided, ultimately, this is actually a love story. And, it’s in his world. I mean, he has a delusion. You don’t really want to compartmentalize mental illness too readily, I mean, it’s much more complicated than that, and not everything’s black and white. But, the way we wanted to approach it is that this is just a love story to him. And, this girl is very real, and his journey, and his need to want to love is very real.

And, in terms of the way that the town approaches that, I’m kind of a little bit cynical myself, so I really had to approach this to appease myself in a way. And, I always feel like there’s no such thing as a normal family. You can talk to anybody.

C: Everyone thinks their family is dysfunctional.

CG: Well, they are. Every family, whatever it is, there’s something going on, whether it’s alcoholism or manic depression or something. There’s some kind of drama that they have to deal with, and they do. You don’t shun that person. This is just a more extreme case of that.

C: I can’t remember the last time I saw a portrait like this of someone who was just so staggeringly lonely. And, how he chooses to cope with that. Certainly, it’s about the most innocent, harmless way imaginable, but…

CG: And, [screenwriter] Nancy [Oliver] wrote this incredible script in that sense. It just really lets that unfold and fills in all the pieces of the puzzle, so you understand where he’s coming from.

C: You mentioned the way the town rallies around Lara and embraces Bianca, the doll. In that respect, that there aren’t really--except for maybe his brother--there aren’t really many naysayers. Or, if there are, they don’t stay that way for long. It feels like a fable, almost.

CG: It definitely is a fable in a sense. But, our choice was that we weren’t really interested in the naysayers. There’s a scene at a party, which is about as far as we go in that direction, when you see that couple that’s going, “Does he have sex with her?” “That’s what she’s for, babe.” And, those people are there, and those people don’t end up at the end of the film. But, I wanted to address them.

And, what I actually end up loving about that scene--I don’t know if you’ve watched it with an audience, but--those lines, which are somewhat humorous, there’s not a chuckle. But, when Margo says, “I hear you two are getting married,” and she turns on them, the audience just erupts. And, you see that everybody is on Lars’s side at that point. But, we do little nods along the way to those people, and they either choose to be with him or not.

C: Yeah, they’re really aren’t any conventional villains here.

CG: No, that’s what’s so beautiful about this script.

C: It adds to that whole innocent, fable-like quality. I’m guessing that at this point you’ve probably heard some wild interpretations of what the movie is really about, this is some metaphor for this or that. How do you respond?

CG: I actually haven’t. I’ve sort of stayed under the radar.

C: I was going to ask you what some of your favorites are.

CG: I haven’t heard anything, actually.

C: You just see it as a love story.

CG: Quite simply, it’s just a…choice. In film, there’s so much stuff that’s dark and heavy. And, this is idealistic, maybe, in the sense that it’s about the human spirit, but I think in reality that’s more the nature of people than what we typically see on film. That’s what’s surprising about it.

C: The fact that the film even got made seems like a slight miracle, if you just hear a one-sentence description of what it’s about. But, the additional challenge, then, would be getting people to get over the stigma of that one-sentence summary. Did you have to be a little cautious about the fact that there’s no sex going on with the sex doll, and handling the material the way you do helps to avoid any seedy overtones.

CG: It’s funny. Honestly, I just approached the film as what would work for myself, and with the actors, I think it was the same way. To me, it was really about mining Lars’s story and his emotional journey. Everything else was a bonus, I think. As long as you were on board and wanted to go on that ride with him and get through that journey--whether people were laughing or not laughing or whatever it was—as long as they were invested in Lars, that’s all I cared about.

C: On the strength of the cast, I had expected something of quality just going in, with your leads and Patricia Clarkson and people like that. But, you realize that the central focus of the film is not someone’s who’s going to emote, so it’s really on the strength of the people around Bianca that make us care about her. Someone said it’s sort of like what they did with the Wilson character in CASTAWAY. They made you care about something inanimate. Can you talk about how you made that happen?

CG: Well, it’s funny. As we were discussing the movie, and trying to figure out his character and what was going on, we always sort of drew references to children, like a child with a teddy bear. And, they can project all this love and emotion onto this teddy bear, and the people around them, their parents and their friends, they’ll go along with that story, because of their love for the child. They won’t be, like, “Ah, that bear’s not real, honey.” So, it was really about Lars. And, it’s their love of Lars that makes them go on this journey. And, the interesting thing that we found in Bianca was that it’s not really about her as a doll. She ends up just basically being a conduit to Lars. Until she turns up, nobody knows how to deal with him or talk to him or approach him. Once she turns up, everybody has access to him. That’s what it is. Same with the whole town; they’re doing it for him.

C: While it was shooting, did you do anything with the doll, with Bianca, to keep that illusion going?

CG: I had all these preconceived notions about how much we would use her. I went through all these tests on her faces, trying to make her feel more lifelike as the movie progresses, and her point of view…

C: Tests? You mean like makeup?

CG: She has nine different faces, and the quality of her wigs and her eyes. And, all get better, and freckles start to come out on her face. Very, very subtle, subconscious things that you wouldn’t really notice, unless you were looking for them. I was thinking about using her point of view in scenes and stuff to really make her come to life, but what I started to realize--myself and my D.P.--as we were shooting, it was really about Lars. So, the way we blocked it out, the first section of the film with him and Bianca is always a two-shot of the two of them, and we don’t have singles of them. It’s like they’re a couple. And then, we started dividing them into singles, and then, we just kind of lost our singles. We started realizing, you don’t want to keep cutting to her as he’s talking. We’re in his world now. So, the last half of the film is just dealing with Lars.

C: That’s true, because they spend less time together as the story goes on.

CG: They spend less time together, and then, when they’re talking, we had shots where we could go to Bianca, but it seemed to resonate more staying on him.

C: This may be a question for a screenwriter, but was there any basis in anything that really happened that you sort of based this on?

CG: You’re right. [laughs]

C: Sorry, I was thinking maybe she might have shared that with you.

CG: If she did, she probably wouldn’t want me to share it. [Laughs] No, she wrote the script a while ago, like, six years ago. And, it was something she really worked on for a while.

C: I know she’s written scripts featuring inanimate objects before, writing for “Six Feet Under” for a while. But, I kept thinking, Is this based on something? Part of it feels very genuine, like, maybe it really happened.

CG: She really, really worked on it for a while until she felt it was ready. And, the more that I got into the process, the more I realized how tight her script was, because we were pressed for time and trying to shoot this. And, we were saying, Can you lose some scenes? And, every scene had a reason and a purpose, and I started realizing how finely tuned this whole script was.

C: Let’s dive into your cast a little. Ryan Gosling is known for his much more serious dramas at this point. I think some people are going to think this is more of a comedy, which clearly it isn’t. I mean, watching him exist and be so uncomfortable in his own skin, especially in the early scenes, is painful. I’ve never seen him do anything like this before. I mean, just his persona that he takes on. He sort of sets the tone for everybody else. Is that so?

CG: Yeah, he certainly does. I mean, when I met Ryan…and obviously, I agree with you to that point. His other films had a very dark nature to them and tormented nature. And, this character is so innocent and giving and open later in the film. I saw that in him when I met him, more than in his work. And, so I was really excited to be able to get that on film, but I also knew that he’d be taking us to this emotional place that wasn’t in the script. He was incredibly fearless about how far he wanted to take this relationship.

C: I think in the beginning of the film I didn’t think I was going to like Lars or care about what happened to him. But, the way he's transformed, it’s remarkable. I hope the subject matter doesn’t scare people away, because they’d be missing a terrific performance.

Then, of course, when you put Patricia Clarkson in your cast, it automatically elevates the film.

CG: Yeah, and the scenes that they have together are the backbone of the film. There was such a delicate dance.

C: It’s almost like a different film, so separated from everything else that’s going on.

CG: Yeah. And, she doesn’t interact with anybody in the town.

C: You almost think, maybe, it’s imaginary somehow, maybe it’s just him working through it on his own issues. You could interpret it that way, almost.

CG: Yeah, they have a lot of similarities. You can see how lonely she is and how she deals with her loneliness. And, I think it helps her relate to Lars.

C: How early on was Ryan cast? Was he one of the first?

CG: He was the first.

C: He was the first. So, everyone kind of fell in place after him?

CG: They jumped in after that. He came on immediately. We sent it to him on a Friday, and he came in on Monday and said he wanted to do it. And then, we had to wait because I wanted to shoot it in the wintertime, which was a tough thing for the studio, but I think it was really important.

C: Is that how it was written, in the cold weather months?

CG: There was definitely a sense of it going from winter to spring and the sense of rebirth.

C: One of the funniest things about the film is the idea of a sex doll wearing these big, bulky winter clothes, which is of course completely counter to the whole reason you’d have a sex doll in the first place.

CG: As soon as she gets out of that initial wardrobe, there’s nothing sexual about her afterwards.

C: Yeah, that’s true. Kelli Garner is kind of a real discovery. I remember her in THE AVIATOR, but she projects so much kindness and warmth and, maybe, a hint of desperation. Can you talk about casting her?

CG: Her character was a tough one to cast, because she is the closest bridge between Lars and the rest of the world. There’s this fine line of how much does she or doesn’t she believe, or what’s her reality. So, we had a lot of people coming in for that role, and a lot of people came in and they played it somewhat damaged or quiet or meek. And, she came in and auditioned and just was full of energy and enthusiasm and this quirky nature that I hadn’t thought about. But, once I saw her doing it, I thought, My god, that’s who Lars needs to pull him out of this hole that he’s in and give him some hope. And, it’s so contrary to what his energy is that I thought it was great. I wasn’t familiar with her work prior to her auditioning. And, when I saw her, it was, like, Wow, this is it!

C: Going back to Ryan for a second: Part of what makes the character so interesting is that…we talked about setting the tone before…but playing that role just a little different would have wrecked everything, I think. Did you have a lot of discussions with him about how abrasive you wanted Lars and how standoffish and how uncomfortable you wanted him. That’s the focus of the film, so I figured that would be something you would talk about in depth.

CG: We talked a lot about the script for months coming up to it, and everything that this character has gone through. And then, what ended up happening in a way was…I mean, his perception versus the rest of the town’s perception is completely different. He’s in a relationship. He’s in a delusion; he’s going through this love affair with this woman. So, we had to go into that whole aspect of it, and how their relationship is and, if they’re fighting, why they’re fighting, or what they’re arguing about, or talking about, or what he’s feeling. And, so these lines that are kind of light, like “I asked you to marry me,” seem kind of light on the surface, but there’s a lot of emotional weight behind how finally he came to that purpose and got rejected, and how that’s affecting him and affecting his performance. So, it was really great to be able to work through all that. And, from that, Ryan would just come up with endless ideas that really took it to another level.

C: With every line and every discussion that he and Bianca have, there’s a subtext. You have to interpret it. When they're fighting, you wonder, Well, why would they be fighting? It’s because he’s distancing himself.

CG: Yeah, because he’s attracted to this girl at the office.

C: Right. And, it’s when Lars and Bianca start not getting along that the film really starts to get interesting.

CG: Nancy loved to say…when he came home and he yelled out to Bianca, and he gets into an argument with her that night…That’s a classic male thing: he comes home and expects her to make him feel better.

C: Right, yeah. But, there comes a point in the film where you see where it’s going, but it doesn’t in any way take away from the joy of going through that journey. That’s a testament to the performances and to your work.

The other cast member I’d wanted to talk about is someone I’m enjoying seeing a lot now--Paul Schneider [who plays Lars's brother]. I saw your film and I saw JESSE JAMES in the same afternoon, and I’m, like, Who is this guy? I recognized him from ALL THE REAL GIRLS and ELIZABETHTOWN. But, seeing him in these two movies really showcases what he's capable of; the two roles are so different.

CG: His role was crucial to me, because he’s the audience.

C: He is the doubting Us.

CG: Right, and I needed to really find a guy that you want to sit alongside and go through this journey with, because at some point, you jump over to Lars’s side. But, at the beginning, we needed that contrarian that’s going to have our heads nodding and being, like, I’m with him.

Again, he auditioned for the role. And, people came in, and as the older brother, they were supportive, but distant and a little bit more kid-glovish with him. But, Paul came in, and he just played him angry. It felt so realistic, too, like a family dynamic that this guy would just be pissed off about what’s going on. And, that he has to be forced to deal with it, because he is as emotionally stunted as Lars is. But, it was a great choice. And, he ran with it.

C: And, that’s interesting, because any time there’s a sick person in the family, there’s always going to be one person that resents the attention the person’s getting or the eggshells you have to walk on. He personified that perfectly.

Lastly, Emily Mortimer, who I’ve always loved.

CG: Yeah. Again, Nancy’s characters were so clearly defined, what their roles were, and she’s the heart of the film, I think. She’s the one that is the first to jump on board and embrace the situation and deal with it. And, she becomes the one that twirls the baton and makes everybody get in line in a way.

C: She does, but we never see her make anybody do anything. They sort of follow her.

CG: By her example, yes.

C:…not by her demanding it. They sort of say, Well, she’s doing it, and it’s helping Lars.

CG: I’m sure she’s the one that got Gus to go to the church meeting that night.

C: Yeah, yeah. To me, it’s a drama with a lot of laughs in it, and those are my favorite.

CG: And, honestly, the way we approached the film was in that sense. I mean, every scene had so much weight and emotional baggage. And, I was always trying to have that take the forefront. If there were going to be laughs there, that was a bonus, in a way.

C: I promise this will be the only question I ask about MR. WOODCOCK. But, I have to…

CG: Is it a four-part question? [Laughs]

C: No, well, actually I had three. But, that thing had been around for…

CG: Did you read the LA Times today?

C: No.

CG: Alright.

C: They detail the chronology of it?

CG: Yes, it’s…all of the answers are out there.

C: I was more just wondering…At this point, do you just sort of wash your hands of it? You have two films coming out so close together. Are you afraid there’s going to be some stink carried over?

CG: Well, the LA Times goes through the whole ordeal…I don’t know if you know that I was taken off of WOODCOCK.

C: That much I did know. And they did a lot of reshooting.

CG: Right. That’s all been laid out in the article. And, in a sense, I have no regrets, because it was a huge learning curve. I would never have managed to make this film had I not been through that. I think it’s learning, in some sense, more from your failures. Not that WOODCOCK is a failure, but I had some failures along the way, and that’s where you learn more. So, in that sense, it made me come to this with a whole different perspective.

C: I don’t think anyone on the planet--if you just watched the two movies, one after the other--would ever know that they’re by the same director.

CG: They’re just different beasts. I mean, when you’re dealing with a large studio film, there’s a certain kind of expectation from the audience in terms of comedies and the importance of it and the punch lines. It’s more for the laughs than for the plot.

C: And the marketability. In your head, are you now thinking, Maybe I should be doing more of these smaller things for a little while.

CG: The scale is not so much an issue, but the process of LARS. And, we were so fortunate, getting Ryan in particular. We would be able to work, and he would throw out ideas and come up with ideas, literally on the spot, and we could shoot them. And, it wasn’t a committee, and it wasn’t a large discussion. It was purely about the creative process and digging into these characters. And, that was really exciting.

C: I guess it’s the freedom that’s probably appealing.

CG: Yeah.

C: There’s so much of an atmosphere to LARS. Did you have any sort of touchstones, other films, maybe, that you said, I like the way that’s done.

CG: Yeah, and it wasn’t anything specifically tangible, but BEING THERE.

C: I’ve heard people say that LARS reminds them of BEING THERE, yeah.

CG: There’s one fundamental premise that is similar to this, which is that this guy is in this bubble of his imaginary world, and you hope all the way through the movie that nobody’s going to burst that bubble. But, there’s that tension there throughout, that somebody’s going to ruin this. And, they don’t. We had, I felt, the same situation with this. You really hope that somebody’s not going to come along and take the doll or do something dark or heinous with it and just destroy this beautiful little story that’s going on. But, I wanted to keep that tension there somehow and try to work with that.

C: Is that something you thought about even before you started shooting it, or did it come to you afterwards?

CG: Yeah, before. And then, for instance, when the guys turn up at the bowling alley. I feel like hopefully there’s a little tension, like, Oh no, I hope they’re not going to do something. I try to keep it as neutral as possible, so people could have that in the back of their minds.

C: There is a lot of that. You want the delusion to go away, but you don’t want it to be forced on him or ugly or something violent, because you get a sense that either the Bianca thing is going work itself out for him, or he’s going to kill himself. You really do feel that at the beginning, that it’s either this or suicide. I hate to put such a fine point on it, but that’s how it feels.

CG: I think that, ultimately, just having that sense and that expectation…I mean, audiences are so savvy these days that you tend to think, Alright, when’s the antagonist going to come in, and when’s this going to take its dark turn? And, I think what’s so refreshing about this is that it doesn’t.

C: It’s nice to have that breath of relief at the end.

CG: Actually, an optimistic message.

C: Then, you do project it to a degree, how it’s going to turn out. So, it’s not really the whole film where people are on the edge of their seats. Once you see where it’s going, you can relax a little and watch it.

CG: We looked at other films, too. A lot of Hal Ashby stuff, especially HAROLD AND MAUDE. And then, LOCAL HERO I checked out. But, it was nothing current, really. It’s very hard to find that balance.

C: It doesn’t remind me of anything current, that’s for sure.

CG: And, even within those films, they didn’t go quite to the emotional place that I knew we would go with Ryan.

C: He’s your champion, right?

CG: Yeah.

C: So, I saw that you’re attached to THE WHOLE PEMBERTON.

CG: You know imdb …You cannot get stuff off of there.

C: That’s not happening anymore?

CG: No. Or, at least, I’m not technically versed enough to get my name off of there. [laughs]

C: So, is there anything lined up next?

CG: I’m avidly reading, and it’s all over the map. But, ultimately, it'll be character based, you know, things that aren’t formulaic and that take you on a journey. Good stuff that I can dig into with actors.

Capone