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Elston Gunn Interviews AJ Schnack Re: KURT COBAIN ABOUT A SON!!
Hello. Elston Gunn here.
Following GIGANTIC (A TALE OF TWO JOHNS), his documentary profiling New York alternative group They Might Be Giants, non-fiction filmmaker AJ Schnack returns to rock territory with KURT COBAIN ABOUT A SON. The film makes use of audio from interviews conducted by journalist Michael Azerrad for his book COME AS YOU ARE: THE STORY OF NIRVANA, allowing the former Nirvana frontman to tell much of his own story. Schnack had been in touch with Azerrad during the making of GIGANTIC when he found out about the existing recorded interviews. Thus, the genesis for a rather intimate and somewhat abstract approach for a new cinematic portrait of the late musician that elevates his story outside of the realm of your typical biography. (For instance, rather than incorporating Nirvana songs into the film, Schnack chose to implement tracks by some of Cobain's favorite groups.)
KURT COBAIN ABOUT A SON is currently playing in select cities nationwide. Visit the film's official website and Schnack's blog ALL THESE WONDERFUL THINGS for more information.
Schnack took time to answer some questions for AICN.
[Elston Gunn]: Congrats on the positive reviews. What has been your favorite reaction so far? Has anyone caught anything that you yourself didn't catch?
[AJ Schnack]: We just opened in Seattle and I was definitely wondering what the response would be there. Sean Nelson at the Stranger wrote this very long, considered piece that I liked a lot. He really put the film in context within the music documentary genre, but also really connected the ideas of the film and the emphasis on place - specifically the places in Washington where Cobain lived - to what I perceive as a very Northwestern view of their conflicted son. I don't know that he (or others) caught something that I didn't expect or intend, but I guess the gravity of his response took me by (pleasant) surprise.
[EG]: How did Azerrad record the interviews (casette, min-cassette, reel-to-reel)? Did you have to endure a rigorous process to clean them up?
[AJS]: He just used a standard cassette recorder but had a really good mike. There was definitely some clean-up work involved - in some cases just to help repair the damage of time, but also because in some instances, Kurt had the television or the radio on in the background and we had to try to minimize that so that you could understand what Kurt was saying.
[EG]: So, you never even tried to get the rights to Cobain's songs. You knew from the get-go you didn't want or need them? Did you ever second-guess that idea?
[AJS]: We thought about ending with a Nirvana song and definitely talked about that, but when it came time to actually cutting it in, and specifically cutting photographs of Kurt to Nirvana music, it really felt entirely wrong. Too much for a single Nirvana song to pull off for one thing and also too triumphant. The score piece that (composers) Steve Fisk and Ben Gibbard wrote was spare and lonely and kind of mournful and I really thought it said everything that I wanted to.
Once I decided not to use the track to end the film (whether we would have gotten permission is an another issue entirely - the rights to Nirvana's music were being sold at the time), I never second guessed the choice, although it probably would have helped us sell the film more quickly.
[EG]: What did you learn about Cobain through his musical influences? Anything particularly surprising?
[AJS]: I guess that I knew that his and Krist's first band was a Creedence Clearwater Revival cover band, but I think I'd forgotten it. Was especially glad to get them in the film. But, generally, it was just wonderful to have stacks and stacks of Kurt's favorite records to listen to and pick music from.
[EG]: Had Azerrad already discovered the film's three-act structure within those interviews or did you find it later in the process?
[AJS]: I knew that I wanted to work within a three-act structure by focusing on these three towns in Washington state where Kurt lived. But it wasn't until I actually had listened to the tapes and began to work with the audio that I realized what a classical three-act structure existed, complete with the tragedy of Kurt's suicide and his dissent into addiction that is foreshadowed at the end of act two.
[EG]: Did you pick and choose the interview segments then cut together all the audio before you shot anything?
[AJS]: Yeah, we actually cut together the audio first so that we had a bed of material - including the songs from other artists - when we went up to Washington to shoot.
[EG]: I'd like to know how you planned the visuals. You have an embarrassment of riches with the audio interviews. Did you immediately brainstorm a shot list? What was the next step?
[AJS]: After we put together the audio, I started working on a detailed shot list, which included a lot of visual references from scouting trips I took to the area as well as storyboards. We had a very good idea going in what the visual element of the film would be for each part of the film, but we left ourselves time and opportunity to discover things we stumbled across or things that we hadn't noticed.
[EG]: You have said you wanted to keep the film set in the Northwest. What do you think your film says about that area of the country as much as it does about Cobain?
[AJS]: I definitely believe in environment as an influence, and I think that so much of what we know about Kurt was affected by the places in Washington where he lived. For instance, Aberdeen is this industrial, masculine town and Olympia is this bohemian, feminine town. I think much of what we know about Kurt's contradictions are hugely informed and influenced by the ideals of these places. Plus, that area of the country is so cinematic. It's stunningly rich and beautiful but haunting and foreboding at the same time. It made a lot of sense to shoot this kind of film there.
[EG]: How long did it take you to shoot everything you wanted and then how much time were you in post-production?
[AJS]: We shot for about three weeks, approximately a week in each city. And we edited for about four months before we submitted to Toronto.
[EG]: I think the approach is refereshing and would like to see more oral histories made cinematic. Cobain telling childhood stories probably says all we need to know about him.
[AJS]: Well, he's an interesting figure, too, because he this iconic figure about whom most people have a definitive set of ideas, yet we aren't really that familiar with his speaking voice. He didn't do a lot of interviews. He wasn't on Mike Douglas or something like John Lennon. In a lot of ways, his identity is composed of the myths that people have created for him, which makes him into this larger than life creature. But, in reality, the thing that made Kurt such an interesting figure was his very ordinary-ness. I think that hearing him tell these stories you relate to him on a very different level - and the fact that you are listening to rather than seeing him gives it an immediacy and an intimacy that I find unusual.
But there's something else that draws me to it, as well. Hearing him talk about the apartment he lived in in Olympia, while you are looking at still life shots inside his old bedroom, reminds you that the world goes on. Another kid in Olympia has a mattress on that floor. Another guy is cleaning out fireplaces at the beach resort. Another band is about to hit it big. There's something about his absence in the film that I think resonates with a lot of people.
[EG]: It seems like a lot of times with non-fiction films about musicians we get the same formula: glorified versions of 'Behind The Music' with talking heads of other musicians saying that this person is 'a legend' and that music was 'forever changed' - maybe that's partly why D.A. Pennebaker's 'Don't Look Back' is still very much treasured. Were you conscious of this when you made your films?
[AJS]: To the extent that I don't want to make the same film twice. In a lot of ways my first film, GIGANTIC, tried to have it's cake and eat it too. We followed that formula but tried to subvert it in small ways. For this film, it wasn't so much a conscious decision of 'we're going to make it radically different,' rather it seemed like the obvious way to all of us to approach the material. But, yeah, I think that generally I try to find ways within the music documentary genre not to repeat what others have done previously.
[EG]: It's interesting that your two most recent subjects, Cobain and They Might Be Giants, differ in that Cobain's career was obviously shorter but garnered more commercial acclaim, while They Might Be Giants are still rather outside the mainstream and will produce a larger breadth of work. But what kind of parallels do you personally see between Cobain and They Might Be Giants?
[AJS]: I think the fact that both came into their own musically because they discovered punk rock. I was struck by how important that realization - that you could have a successful band without being a rock star - was to Cobain and to Flansburgh and Linnell. Also, the three were very outward-looking musically. I think that's true of most musicians, that they are constantly engaging with others' music, however I'm struck that both the Giants and Kurt would incorporate so much of what they heard elsewhere into their music.
[EG]: Earlier this year in your blog, in a response to my article 'What Is Oscar Trying To Say To Documentaries?' you actually agreed with the Academy's decision to make the documentary eligibility guidelines a little more strict, saying it will be better for non-fiction films in the long run. Would you care to elaborate?
[AJS]: Well, it's funny now that the Academy has basically reversed their decision and have simplified the process, it seems like I was about the only person going on record to say that this year's rules weren't that awful, even if they didn't pan out the way that I or others thought. But, basically, I think that when people have actually heard of the five nominees for Best Documentary Feature, it's a net plus for all of us who are trying to get documentaries shown in theatres. And I didn't think that the Academy's requirement that you had to screen in 14 cities was that onerous. In fact, it got me frustrated when people began to claim that it was next to impossible for a documentary to actually screen in 14 cities. So, now, I'm probably one of the only filmmakers who will argue publicly that the new rules are too accomodating, because I actually want the films that are nominated to not only be the best films, but also films that have had a real theatrical life.
[EG]: What kinds of practical and specific advice do you have for aspiring non-fiction filmmakers?
[AJS]: Being a filmmaker - whether narrative or non-fiction - is like being a small businessperson, and you should know your market and your industry before you go into business. Of course, ultimately you are creating a piece of art, but if you care whether or not anyone sees that art, you should educate yourself first. Talk to other filmmakers, go to film festivals, watch the films that are getting out there.
[EG]: What are you working on next?
[AJS]: I have five or six nonfiction films - only two of which involve music surprisingly - that are in various stages of development and pre-production. Like everything else, it just depends on which gets funding. But I am executive producing a film that I'm excited about that profiles the legendary musician Andre Williams, which Eric Matthies and Tricia Todd are directing, and which is just finishing post-production. And I'm looking for ways to expand what the blog is, to have a greater reach inside the documentary community. This was a big year for the blog, it really began to find its place. I'm hoping that 2008 continues that.
Elston Gunn
elstongunn@hotmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/elstongunnaicn
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I hate you.
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I will definitely be looking for this, as I am a huge Nirvana fan.
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Lamest Rock Martyr Ever.
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I didn't get into Nirvina until after CObian's death although I was in high school and had friends that listened to it, i feel as if I missed out on a special moment in time. their unplugged was one of the best things MTV ever did and I was just talking last week with a friend about their performance on SNL. This sounds like an interesting docuo despite your feelings about Cobian just for the stylistic choices made and the oral history part of it.
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It's so retarded when people see suicide as a "selfish act". It is the loss of all hope and someone who does it probably isn't "thinking clearly" at that moment (especially if drugs are involved). Cobain was a bit of a fuckup and fucked up bad in the end, but to call him a selfish tool because he blew his brains out is just stupidity. Anyway, these documentaries on artists never really capture the person that well, even with numerous interviews. Maybe you'll get a glimpse inside man, but you are probably better of just listening to some Nirvana tracks if you want to feel what he was about.
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Oct 18, 2007 10:53:01 AM CDT
I saw the trailer for this during the Tribeca film festival
by bobo_vision
And it was amazing just how prophetic it seemed to have Kurt Cobain narrating his own documentary after his death, because many of his comments seemed to be from beyond the grave. It looked pretty good.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain#Suicide_dispute
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Anyone who is firmly convinced it's suicide should check out "Love & Death" by Max Wallace & Ian Halperin. I realize I'm opening myself up to criticism by even suggesting that it wasn't suicide, but the book presents some scary, very credible evidence for the possibility of murder, and the authors are both respected journalists.
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lol he was fucked up
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I'm not a fan of Cobain or his music, but I read the book referenced above, and the evidence speaks for itself. All the strange cover ups, all the strange things surrounding Love. Read it, you won't believe the level of subterfuge on this thing. It will give you the creeps.
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LOL@JOOTRANSCRIPTIONNOOB!?1
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I've lived in Seattle most of my life. I saw Nirvana play shithole taverns and clubs playing to an audience that consisted of their whores and suck ups. Nirvana sucked then, they suck more now. The world is a better place without them. We should see more documentaries on Bon Scott, a much better vocalist and human being than kurt ever was.
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Admit it, bands like Arcade Fire and Bloc Party are phony as hell compared to Nirvana's music and message. These guys are quicker to sell out their music to an Intel Processing Chip commerical than a fucking ignorant rapper. As soon as Cobain died, MTV rushed in with the glossy TRL bullshit, like a parade after a funeral. And it really hasn't stopped since then. System of a Down? Haha. Those guys are cool if you're 8 years old. Foo Fighters? Absolute garbage after their first album, the antithesis of what Nirvana was. The only modern day act that can hit you as hard as Nirvana still can is Wu-Tang Clan. Both of those acts transcended the bullshit and transcended the mind. Trully rebellious, relentless material. Definitely going to check out this doc.
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TheDohDoh you are either naive, stupid, has no taste or doesn't know where to find good music.
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He was such a prick..refusing to perform good when he HAD to sing his hits...acting like an ass when he didn't feel like being a celebrity. Poor, sad bastard. But fucking rich thanks to MTV.
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Kurt Cobain WAS fucking rich.
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