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Geeks Prepare!! TERMINATOR's SALVATION Will Be Brought To Us By Warner Bros.!! McG Still In Play!!
Merrick here...
Warners has nabbed the rights to Halcyon's relaunch/resurrection of the TERMINATOR franchise. It's slated to roll in early 2008, and is called TERMINATOR SALVATION: THE FUTURE BEGINS.
Wasn't the catch phrase for THE RIGHT STUFF (one of my all time most favorite films) "How the future began?"
While industry buzz has "Charlie's Angels" director McG as the odds-on favorite for the assignment, the producers said no final decision had yet been made.
...says THIS ARTICLE IN VARIETY, which goes on to indicate:
"This is set in the future, in a full-scale war between Skynet and humankind," Anderson told Daily Variety.
In the quote above, "Anderson" refers to Derek Anderson, one of the film's producers.
Apparently, room is being left for some sort of brief appearance by Arnold, although the issue is inconclusive at this time. No matter what happens, look for another Terminator (should this be plural?) to be the big bad(s?).
As previously reported, the film has been scripted by the TERMINATOR 3 writers John Brancato and Michael Ferris. T3 seems to be the source of considerable contention among fans; I actually liked the film to some degree....and give it credit for one helluva ballsy ending.
Strangely, I don't have as much antagonism for this project as I feel I should. Does that make me a bad Geek?
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First, BTW
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I understand the idea of not calling it 4. and giving it a title, but "Terminator Salvation" just sounds lame.As for McG bashing, I hated hated HATED the Charlie's Angel's flicks, but he has shown somerestraint with stuff like We Are Marshall and some of his stuff is just plain fun, like the the V shows FASTLANE and Supernatural. So I'll give him a chance. Does anyone else think Luc Besson (Professional, Fifth Element) would make a cool choice?
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Need I say any more?
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Then maybe this flick has a chance. Mostow's version was a bit too clean and too streamlined minus a complicated story, but it was still fun. Charlie's Angels can suck my balls, but maybe McG has something up his sleeve. This seems like a decent idea. I'm just happy they didn't try to tap Ratner. I guess he's too busy with his Casablanca and Citizen Kane remake.
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The shortened name pisses me off every time I see it!
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I'm not saying that as a non-committal bullshit statement; this movie had some really good stuff in it, and like Merrick said a fuckin great ending. Of course there were awkward moments and some mediocre performances (apart from Stahl and Danes, which were surprisingly good - especially the latter), but so was there in the first two.
Mostow ain't Iron Jim but he's still a fairly good director, and his handling of the silly humor at the beginning in order to catch the attention of the most reluctant audience, and focus slowly on the serious stuff was the way to go. After ten years without A SINGLE GOOD MOVIE for Arnie, it was a necessary evil.
As for McG, he said while promoting We are Marshalls that he wanted to focus on more serious movies. I would give him a chance, after all Jon Favreau is directing Iron Man, so why not? -
Ah, who knows, it might turn out decent. The script will be the key factor obviously. I really didn't think T3 would be any good, and it completelty floored me. Best Third sequel in a long time---despite some cheesy lines. No one saw that ending coming.
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It felt more like a remake or something than an ACTUAL Terminator movie, but I watched it, I had a good time, I forgot it before I left the cinema.
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I hated The Fifth Element as much - maybe more - than you obviously hated Charlie's Angels. So I wouldn't vote for him. Did you see his "post-apocalyptic" flick District B13? He only produced it, but it was still an awful film. Far worse than any Charlie's Angels movie^^
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The real artistry in this franchise died with T2, but T3 was actually okay in a back-to-the-terminatorverse-amd-it's-actually-quite-fun way - though I didn't like the new JC that much. So I could stand to go for another T-film. But McG? Those Charlie's films were fucking awful. The first one was bad, but the second one made that look like a fucking masterpiece of modern cinema. Another director please. Though he does know how to shoot T & A...
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When James Cameron returns to the world of filmmaking it will be like when Moses comes back down from the mountain and people realize they have just been worshipping a silly statue. And I'm talking about Cameron's return to fictional filmmaking, not filming himself digging up boats 'n Jesus's sandals or whatever.Cameron's return to action cinema will revive the world's sense of standards for the genre and Michael Bay will be dragged from his sports car and torn limb from limb and the execution will be added as a special feature on the DVD of Avatar.I can already sense the enlightenment growing. Bono will preach to poor children about the possibility of a sequel to Ronin. We will all band together and smash remakes like the Berlin Wall. Special effects will be reshackled and forced back into submission to plot. It will be glorious! Narrative clarity. Compelling storytelling. Well-staged thrilling action. Original ideas. Great characters. James Cameron!
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Haven't seen District B13, and from your recommendation, I don't think I will. I can understand why many people hated Fifth Element, but personally I dug it. Fifth alone would most certainly not sell me on him as a candidate. But I was actually thinking more of the fact that The Professional showed he can handle acting and characters, while Fifth showed he can do a flick with lots of action and FX, so between the two, maybe he could pull off Terminator. There's also La Femme Nikita. Of course, it could ALSO be a huge mess...
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I know everyone hates them, but I always saw it as being pruposely cheesy and ridiculous... kind of like with Batman and Robin... apparently that film was trying to mimic the old Adam West show for cheesy puns and villians. Sure audiences might not have iked it, but if that was the director's intent then he did accomplish it though as it turns out, it wasn't bad in execution, just a bad idea from the beginning of the concept... I see this as being the same with Charlie's Angels, so I only watched it to stare at Cameron Diaz... But anyway point is I won't chalk that up to the Director... just that that sort of film doesn't jive with the many...
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Oct 10, 2007 9:02:42 AM CDT
Btw aicn - please give us an edit function. C'mon. Some of us ar
by kubla_khan
C'mon!
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it's really not that bad. it's pretty entertaining, and as Merrick said, it has a terrific ending. of course for part 4 to work, agreed about the title...good lord is it clunky and godawful...it's got to go.
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Oct 10, 2007 9:03:38 AM CDT
*** Warner Bros. should roll the dice and hand it over to McG. *
by jdanielp
Charlie's Angels was what it was. But personally, I see something unique in McG. He does have a talent for the visual. And when such visual talent gets mixed with the right material, something special can happen. Who knows? We may all be surprised. And I believe that McG is worth a roll of the dice. Give McG a shot and let's see what he does with it. Thumbs up, from me.
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As evidenced above.
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Why not just a reboot of T1 with Duane Johnson, Naomi Watts, Could be fucking sweet.
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Until execs realiize making a "successful" film does not start and stop with how much money something makes, beloved franchises will continue to be ruined by fresh blood directors with no skills and even less ideas. Quick edits, anyone? This shit will be two hours of two second shots. Horrible. JJ Abrams sucks too. And Joss Whedon. These are people i think of when McG' name is dropped. What did these no talent hacks turn it down?
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Why do people constantly try and revive dead franchises...
Everybody already knows its going to be a hugely dissapointing load of cack! -
He'd be fucking perfect.
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Oct 10, 2007 9:18:51 AM CDT
I'd be cool with this if it were'nt for the choice of McG...
by killakane
You just know this is going to be trash from the get go, considering all the great emerging talent out there (in Europe especially) it's tragic that the lowest common denominator hack gets selected for such a genre tentpole as the Terminator.
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Oct 10, 2007 9:27:50 AM CDT
T3 had one major flaw (apart from the lack of James Cameron).
by c legion
The villain. T1 had Arnie, awesome, T2 had Robert Patrick, perfect in a completely different way to Arnie. T3 we had fucking Kristanna Loken. I'm sorry but I don't find skinny, attractive women menacing, it's one of the main reasons why I was so disappointed with Kill Bill. Don't get me wrong, some women can kick major fucking arse, I adore real Martial Art films, but Hollywood chicks with a few months training just do not cut it with me.
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oh wait...
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Anyone care to place any bets?
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on balance it just did'nt break enough new ground (the Terminatrix just was'nt a viable foe) and showcased some impressive stunts and action sequences but rang hollow in comparison witht he emotional depths of it's predesessors. I loved the POTA style ending, great set-up for what ultimately most Terminator fans want to see; a visceral full blown future War. I'd be inclined to unleash a phalanx of Terminators, the Rock would be a worthy replacement for Arnie, but the likes of Diesel, Urban and co would add to the threat.
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Seeing a film fully set in the future is something that probably every fan of the TERMINATOR-series has been looking for since the first movie.
Now get rid of McG and start production! -
it's fucking ridiculous, i can't imagine having a baby of mine created then taken away and done with however someone pleases. Fucking stupid.
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can i get one at mcdonalds ?
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Yes they are starting their own series of films that they see as somewhat separate, but it's not like they're starting over and remaking it a la Batman Begins or Hulk. This is just a separate series set in a separate area not covered by the originals beyond short flashbacks. Bring on the Future War!
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Seriously it came out of nowhere. I thought it was going to be a case of destroy the computers whilst the T3 tries one last attempt. Nope. Blow up the Earth.
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Best Comment Ever.
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As much as I enjoyed most of your post you lost much respect when you said Special Effects. You don't sound too knowledgable. Special Effects are physical effects, you mean visual effects. I never liked Bay but the way he used the action pieces with Ironhide and Ratchet was up there with the best Cameron action.
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we win.
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it seems like everyone liked the same parts and disliked the same parts so if the T3 scripters are reading this listen to us, a)Termantrix didn't work focus on the action, less so on the cheesy one liners (although I know they have been a part of the Terminator movies from the beginning). To the director, producers, casting agents, etc. We want to see guys like Diesel, Johnson, Urban, etc in our Terminator movie, if Arnie is in it great, if not, that's fine too we want a future war, not a cock tease war. As for me I want them to find some way to rescue Micheal Behien from DTV hell or whatever he is doing now and find a way to get him in the movie
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Oct 10, 2007 10:03:43 AM CDT
That title is almost moronic enough for McGinty...
by stalin vs predator
Almost. It still needs something to help it connect with the hip modern myspace generation. Maybe something like "iTerminator"?
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Oct 10, 2007 10:11:52 AM CDT
Give Arnold a smal cameo, then have the main star be
by grammaton cleric binks
the Reese or Connor character, or both together. I'm telling you Paul Walker could make a credible Reese. He's no Michael Biehn, but he could get the job done. Biehn, like the rest of the cast unfortunately, is too old. Here' the perfect cameo though. Lance Henriksen (sp?) old decrepit, and in a wheelchair talking about his days as a cop before Judgment Day, and the night of the massacre. He should be long and scraggly like in Stone Cold. Say what you will, hate if you must, but I loved that flick. To quote Paul Winfield, "You're Momma"
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Oct 10, 2007 10:24:25 AM CDT
I hope McG's up for the role of the Terminator and not the direc
by filmfunk
Or this is gonna be a total joke fest with MTV, comedy Robo action like an episode of Gladiators mixed thru Robot Wars and the final death nel of the Terminater franchise. 'Hasta Pasta Boombasta Gravy'
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Wimp talking on the radio.
Hey, kids, listen to me, I'm JC. -
No, it wasn't the special-effects playground that T2 was and no, it wasn't the original that has defined VH1's I LOVE THE '80s series, but T3 is a solid TERMINATOR story with a great non-copout ending. Oh, and Nick Stahl > Edward Furlong, but you already knew that.
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No, actually this is gonna blow. And (yes I did just start a sentence with "And")what I mean by blow, I mean suck balls. What? Are we gonna get another scene where Arnie is walking out while the Rock is walking in a la the Run Down? The Terminator was Arnie, without him it's nothing. I know the franchise has been a cash cow, but don't end it on a cheaply made piece of shit movie that just pisses everyone off. Oh wait, T3 already did that...I think it could get worse though. BTW, I think the last film Arnie should do is another Conan flick. But I'm talking a real Epic where he plays the roll of Conan as an aging king...as seen at the end of the original movie...how cool would that be? Is it too late?
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Unfortunately there was 100 minutes before the ending that sucked.
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I'm talking about this stuff like these Pirates of the Caribean sequels where they write a movie around whatever these computer animator guys felt like doodling. Voodoo lady grows into a giant and explodes into seacreatures, put it in! Ocean turns into giant toilet bowl and flushes ship full of squidmen, put it in! Bunch of rocks turn into crabs and then pick a ship and throw into the ocean, put it in! It's funny because special effects aren't that *special* anymore, they're everywhere. Character moments and coherent plots are special.Maybe I'm not that knowledgable about the difference between physical effects and visual effects, but I know a well-paced well-told story and a thrilling action sequence with purpose when I see one in a film.Oh, and the ghost of Ray Harryhausen will pass on Christmas eve and take the first born of every household that owns a copy of the Transformers DVD. So be warned.
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Oct 10, 2007 10:45:59 AM CDT
Ending to T3 was like on of those Planet of the Apes sequels´ en
by cuervojones
Not that great. T3 was fanfiction, not a real Terminator movie.
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I just watched T2 again and found it kind of dated. Linda Hamilton is way over the top, the special effects have lost their lustre and when you get down to it - there's not much of a story. The 1st Terminator still holds up because it's got a good story and I think T3 is far superior to T2. T3 raises some really interesting ideas and Nick Stahl was very good. And T3 has the most satisfying ending of all three. Why do action movies always end up in a factory?
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From director to cast and writers, produicers and LACK of James Cameron. Yeah suckage. The terminator saga should have eneded with the Judgement Day.
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...which as a previous poster stated has aged sort of badly. Once you're over the effects (which were mind-blowing at the time, not nearly so today), the movie is very spotty and at times corny. The humor is actually worse than in T3, the softening of Arnold is overdone, and the kid is a sucky actor. So for me it's T1 > T3 > T2. I'll add my voice to those saying that T3 wasn't bad at all, though the villain was underwhelming (hot though!), and it had a great ending. ...And a McG-helmed Terminator: FutureWars! is going to blow. I don't even want to see this series of movies, frankly. It's fanboy wish fulfillment crap, and we've all seen how that turns out (Alien vs. Predator: sucked, every video game adaptation ever: sucked, Jason vs. Freddy: actually not horrible, but still mediocre).
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Oct 10, 2007 11:08:08 AM CDT
before they make T4 how about another godfather movie directed b
by jah_kingdom
Russel Mulchahy. Now that would be awesome!
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Now that's a future War I'd pay to see.
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banging bitches from the past
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This project is dead.
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Oct 10, 2007 11:37:02 AM CDT
im one of the few who thought they should of left Sgt.Candy dele
by future help
scene IN T3. It was funny and sci-fi.
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it really blew me away and saved the whole film from being a bit rubbish - the "talk to the hand" bit and the pink sunglasses came close to ruining the whole film - but that ending, about the whole thing being totally inevitable really hit me. I loved it, but overall the film still ranks behind 1 & 2. I'm keeping an open mind on T4, it could just be total crazy cyborg-human warfare which with todays FX could mean a whole heap of greatness. Could though be a bit shitty. We shall see. Will T4 have any connections with the sarah connor TV series??
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Oct 10, 2007 11:37:59 AM CDT
the deleted scene of Sgt. Candy should of been in the movie
by future help
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Directed by...
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Oct 10, 2007 12:02:35 PM CDT
I'm getting really pissed off at all you fake Terminator fans
by t 1000 xp professional
T3's ending yeahhh awesome!! UMMmmm ...It's ok. It was ballsy. It took a crap on anything that was worth anything in the previous two. As for the humor in T3, it was alot less subtle and less funny than T2(pink sunglasses anyone? I cringed and sank in my chair embarrassed as if it was my fault.
T2 still remains one of the best sequels of all time....Terminator is really close to my heart, hence my username. A "simple and slightly entertaining" movie just isn't enough for me when it has the Terminator in the title. I tried seeing the movie with this low standard mentality and it still didn't work for me.
I didn't hate T3, but please tell me who's a big fan of something that's lukewarm?
McG as the director....Well that doesn't even deserve a comment since words can only cause so much pain.
If they are really going through with this ....::sigh::: well I just don't know maybe this can save everything. Let's be honest though, no studio really ever saves anything nowadays.
Luc Besson would be cool in anything he does, if he gets out of his "retirement". These shoes might even be too big for him though or anybody else. -
He fucked up Taxi 4 as a producer/screenwriter, so I'm not sure how he could do justice to *this* fourth installment.
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how can anyone really seriously take a guy who is named after the menu at mcdonalds
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best. deleted scene. ever. It was SO SO bad but so freakin funny.
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Completely agree. I think that's what elevates T3 above being just another standard actioner. The ending had some punch.
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Pull it up....it was 95% positive. T3 was a very good movie...nothing can compare to T2...maybe the best action/sci-fi movie of the last 25 years, but T3 was a big crowd pleaser.
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I had never heard of this but just pulled it up on YouTube....gotta love the Internet. And yeah, it is pretty bad but funny as a deleted scene.
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McG + writers of T3 = unremarkable cash-in
I don't ever want to see another Terminator film not involving James Cameron. -
no one expected much from another Arnold movie. I gotta agree that the expectations were at an all-time low, but it doesn't rob T3 from its inherent qualities. It was a fine movie, with a few lame moments and a highly "satisfactory" ending.
Some people seem to only understand now that Cameron's flicks can't be topped. I for one moved on a long time ago. These Terminators are a thing of the past, but if you look at the actual sci-fi genre, the same can be said of 99% of these films. I'm not giving a pass to Warner for making a cash-cow, PG-13 crapfest but even with a new creative team we can be reasonably optimistic. -
They're taking this franchise down the toilet. McG? Gimmie a break. Wheres all the credible directors? Come to think of it, where the hell's James Cameron?
Now, Big Arnie as a cameo wouldnt hurt that much as its set in the future war, but there must be some continuty from T1 & T2, hell even T3.
T1 & T2 are classics. T3, whilst not a bad movie, falls way short of the 1st 2. Plus the crappy jokes through it felt like a parody at times.
As for the ending, it didnt seem to be the right kind of pay-off for the finale of the movie. Kinda like the movie in general, it doesnt sit well compared to 1 & 2.
People have screamed for years for a Terminator Future War Movie, Now we're gonna get it, but boy will it suck. -
Oct 10, 2007 1:28:52 PM CDT
Future War is the ONLY place they can go now...but not with McG!
by tallboy66
ARGH! McG!!! But, yeah, Future War is the shiznit. Maybe the strength of the storyline will overcome ... ARGH! McG!! WHY???!!
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We've all wanted to see the future war ever since the original Terminator came out and finaly we get it. I know Arnie says he can't or doesn't have time for it, but with all the special effects and CGI all you have to do is get a 3D image of the man and a few sound bites and Arnie could be in the film as a CGI Terminator without being in the film actualy.
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Non-spoilery - the two shalt never meet because the storylines are completely different. Spoilery spoilers (Pilots' been on The Net for months): Sarah Connor show is set 2 years after the end of Terminator 2. At the end of the Sarah Connor show, they timejump forwards to a non-future destroyed 2007. It totally overwrites Terminator 3. That movie didn't happen and the machines didn't take over. Alternate Universe story, but I can buy it because its a series about time travel. You'd end up with a few quirks.
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call it Terminator: Salvation or Terminator: The Future Begins, or even T4: He Won't Be Back.
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Oct 10, 2007 2:18:12 PM CDT
"Make the world a better place, punch McG in the fuckin face"
by mystory64
and yeah, that title is right up there with "Rise of the Silver Surfer".
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Hunterkiller: Terminator 4
with a skinless chrome terminator grinning and holding up four fingers, a la "Ghostbusters." The tag line could be something like, This Summer, Get Ready 4 the Future. Or "This is the End 4 Us All." Get it? Ha ha ha haa....meh -
this is bad news!
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compared to 1 & 2 which actually had some thought put into them.
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Oct 10, 2007 3:14:03 PM CDT
The cool thing about T3 was that it did one thing the other movi
by ckone
And that is take the story to the next level...sure most of it retreads the whole two terminators from the future come to kill Sarah/John Connor, but then it takes that final leap that once you take you can't come back from. So you can only move into the future with the next one, which of course could always lead to the moment when John sends his best friend to the past after he learns of the T800 being sent to kill his mom in the 80's and then we can have a Back to the future2 moment and have other characters running around in the 80's Original...I'm sure with the proper FX that can be done no?? ;)
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I am here to say I loved Terminator 3, and you will say that I am an idiot. I will remind you all that Sly Stallone answered me personally last year, and you all will shut up. And so it goes!
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That would be pretty awesome.
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Am I the only one here who watched T3? The special effects were spectacular, the action scenes kicked ass; but the movie was a piece of shit. The story was horrible and weak; I give them props for the ballsy ending; but that's about it.
Charlie's Angels is all about the hotties, other than hot chicks running aroundin scampy outfits those movies had absolutely nothing going for them.
So WB's idea of bringing back one of the most popular franchises of all time is to combine the mediocre writing in the least popular of the three with the twitchy, ADD induced directing style of the worst director in Hollywood this side of Uwe Boll.
Man...I couldn't make this up if I was on a hallucigenic mushrooms diet. Are Studios really this out of touch with audiences, or are the execs simply so pompous and egocentric that they think they can just throw anything at us and they'll make $200 mil? -
actually, if you like one thing you do have to be a dick to the other. that's sort of what we do here at the aicn tb. it's how we roll.
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1. The bland personalities of the all the leads 2. The Terminatrix wasn't menacing and was just an uninspired ripoff of the T-1000 3. Mostow's decision to do away with Cameron's dark/steel blue lighting package and go with a generic Rob Cohen-esque look for his film...all the better to notice the obvious cgi! 4. Dumb screenwriting like John Connor thinking that the Arnold was the same Terminator from part two. What kinda shit is that? Suddenly John Connor's a fucking noob. 5. "Talk to the hand" and the whole bar scene. 6. The contrived crap Claire Danes/high school fling/general's daughter nonsense.
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Do not forget the complete and utter disregard for the main point of The Terminator: "The future is not set, there is no fate but what we make for ourselves".
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If theres going to be more Termintor films then so be it, but wouldn't awesome if someone came up with something new . Just a thought.
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Two were enough. I hope it's just not going to be another new terminator or whatever coming back in time. Yawn.
I would prefer NO new terminator films. -
Sure, T3 has a few problems... but T2 has WAAAAAY more problems: a corny Ahnuld terminator; lame Eddie Furlong; cheesy sub-Spielberg sentimentality; etc. And that ending, with the terminator giving a "thumbs up" as he sinks into the molten metal... >
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T3 entertained me. Great story (The luietentant thing instead of looking for John was a great idea), Claire Danes (hmmm), and even Nick Stahl (although I would've preffered Ed for contiunity). Arnie just about got away with the age thing and a great ending. Heard rumours a while back about Arnie giving his permission for his likeness to be used in the 4th film. Guess he might be involved in spirit if nothing else. Oh, on the subject of four, don't like the title. Would prefer a subtitle like 'Terminator: Genesis' or something else that implies a new beginining. This is, after all, a new chapter.
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Turns out skynet used John's wartime mentor/consiglieri as the model for the Terminator in order to get close enough to kill him. Arnie plays the actual dude, so his advanced age wont be an issue and in fact will give him a grizzled, overthehill soldier look. The only snag might be Arnie's limited acting range.
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Wasn't the plot for T3 essentially the same as T2? only... unoriginal because of it? why are people saying it's a better movie if all it's doing is giving something old a facelift?
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T3 was basically a remake of T2. It was pointless except for the new ending. There were parts of it that bordered on parody, they were so cheesy. Some middle of the road action is about all that film offered. Although I've been saying for years (along with the rest of fandom) that they need to do a Terminator that took place in the future.
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The hook of the entire trilogy is time-traveling cyborg assassins. What's interesting are the variations on that hook. I just think T3 did it better than T2, warts and all.
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And at first, he was NOT psyched they made it. Mostow's a great action director. He's not some Rob Cohen/PWS Anderson hack.
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The terminator franchise has one helluva mythos behind it. I thought Terminator 3 was flawed as a movie (where was the fucking music?!?!), but it absolutley redeemed itself in it's plot. When he ended up in that bunker with the surviving military units radioing in for orders, I got chills. I hope hope hope that they direct this one properly, cause I'm fairly satisfied that the story will be fucking sick.
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...that T3 is better than T2. Go back and watch T2, it has some of the hokeyest, corniest dialog I've ever listened to. Sure, as a kid I loved it, as an adult, too much of it makes me cringe. Also, Linda Hamilton is a terrible actress when she has to actually, yanno, act. Arnie's thumb's up at the end was the icing on the cheesecake. Still, great FX, action and crisp directing prevent me from actually disliking it.
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and I am a huge Arnie fan. I would love to see verbinski, nolan, or even Brad Bird, who has shown he can do a movie with action and heart. McG made a couple angel movies that while they didn't appeal to me personally I can't really fault. He had an idea of how to make them and I think he did a good job with that idea, and I can appreciate them as such. I think him helming T4 might not be a bad thing at all.
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And it showed people being disintegrated with their flesh being torn from their bones and cars being thrown all over the place. It was a real horrific judgement day not this Dr Strangelove the world just blew up thing they had in T3. No emotional or psychological resonance just splosions.
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terminator was good but there are some things wrong but o well IT'S MOVIE MAGIC!!!! TFD!!!!
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and agree that T3 was better than T2 once you start breaking them down.
Cameron's framing and the editing gave T2 a slicker, punchier feel than T3 but it's all about how you finish and in that respect, T3 leaves T2 in the freakin' dust. -
was on last night. not as good as foul king or the quiet family. k-movies are cool.
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Are you gonna say you love that movie more than Aliens now?
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T3 ruined the franchise. I'm amazed anyone, including supposed fans, can think otherwise. The vastly lowered standards, characters, grittiness, and violence are all on display for pinhead apologists like VegasRon and ewokstew. Bravo guys! You're definitely killing any sense of integrity the franchise set up in the first film. Keep sucking your own dicks and maybe other dick-suckers will follow suit.
Oh, and odysseus, you're right -- Mostow IS a great action director. He's just not a terribly intelligent or creative director. Keep sticking up for him, though. Maybe you'll convince even yourself he deserves respect for Terminator III.
McG? Hmm. Sounds like another Mostow to me. Lots of explosions and zero compelling story. But hey, maybe he'll give us those anime penguins for laughs, huh? One can only hope. -
A McG is either (a) what follows a McF, or (b) a MTV hack who got promoted from making music videos to feature films.
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You wrote: "McG and Cameron today are not too far apart."
My fucking god, what a panty waste you are. Are you a classic science fiction movie fan or a fucking tea totaling pissant? Because I'm inclined to believe the latter based on your assessment.
Cameron directed five of the most revolutionary, ass-kicking, top-grossing films of all time. McG directed... marginally profitable cotton candy farces. Gee, ricarleite, your assessment is really giving me pause here. I'm really coming over to your side. Please post lots more of your equally evocative and braindead statements so I can board your train to Idiotville.
Oh, and just so you know: you'll need to post paragraphs of justifications for why "McG and Cameron today are not too far apart." Or, on equal ground, maybe I should say: ricarleite and brain cancer aren't too far apart. Or ricarleite and dogshit are sort of similar. Those statements, though opinions, are about as factual as your lovely assessment of directorial prowess.
But maybe your friends think you're a really cool guy. That would help.
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...if I could suck my own dick, I'd never leave the house. But let me address the one issue you brought up in your half-assed, mouth-breathy hissy fit. Characters? Stahl breathed a lot more realism into a much better rendered, troubled John Connor than the one-dimensional protrayal(Furlong flat out sucked) of a cliche-spouting, one-dimensional character in T2. Claire Danes also was MUCH better than the over-the-fucking-top Linda Hamilton who, in T2, spouted some of the worst lines I've ever heard in a movie I actually liked. Grittiness? You're kidding, right? I hope to fucking god you aren't calling T2 gritty. Gritty would have been Hamilton dying in the end, not that bullshit Spielbergian thumb's up. T3's terminator killed teens and other innocents on the way to blowing up the world. Hell, for grittiness, just compare the two endings. The violence in both movies were about the same, though I found T3's less cartoony than T2's.
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There wasn't a single original thought that went into the T3 script. To me, it was abundantly clear that James Cameron had no involvement. It was lacking in every department. This one sounds like another cheeseball money grab by the incompetent executives at Warner Bros. They sure know how to kill off a series... AND I'M A STOCKHOLDER! I'm so ashamed.
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...T2 had an original thought? It's basically a carbon copy of T1 with a bigger budget. Just switch Arnie with Reese as the protector. Hell, it even ended with in an industrial warehouse setting with the death of the Arnie/Reese. Oh, and add terrible dialog.
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T2 was a logical successor to Cameron's original film. It knew where and when to expand on the characters and story in an organic and 'believable' way. You have to be kidding me... It was one of the best science-fiction+action sequels of the 90s! Although he originally 'borrowed' the premise of Terminator from a Harlan Ellison short story, "Soldier From Tomorrow", it expanded greatly on the kernal of an idea. Hell, as it's been said before, "good artists copy, great artists steal". Unfortunately, T3 copied in an unsatisfying, uncreative way.
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I agree about the dick-sucking thing. I probably wouldn't leave the house either.
But I must disagree with you about T3 being a more compelling movie that T2. You bring up good points about Stahl and Furlong and their acting performances, but I would argue more people remember Furlong's annoying teenage wanker role than Stahl's milktoast John Connor. Stahl is a quality actor ("In the Bedrooom" and "Carnivale" being some of his best performances, in my opinion), but his John Connor was completely at odds with what the character John Connor needed to be. Uncertain, yes. Off the grid, yes. Trained in wacky pseudo-militaristics, yes. But where was his leadership? Where was the memory of his fucked up mother? You may have seen these traits, VegasRon, which is fine. But I didn't. I needed more intensity, quirkiness, and character development from Stahl and his reading of the paper-thin script than I saw. The explosions and silly female terminator were nice, but how about something more than that? How about a well-filmed story than resonated emotionally with audiences? Maybe the film resonated with you, which is fine, but based on the groundwork laid in the first two films I needed something more. Much more. And Mostow didn't deliver it to me or millions of other people. Maybe the studio was breathing down his throat, I don't know. But the final product is embarrassing compared to the first two films. I know you feel differently, which I respect, but I can't stand by and allow such an opinion to go unchallenged.
I think T3 was a terrible film. It contained some cool chase scenes but I think it missed hundreds of opportunites for further character development. Mostow did a good job with "U-571," another non-emotional popcorn piece, but "The Terminator" needed resonance and he didn't deliver. For me, anyway.
Sorry I called you a dick-sucker, but I needed to be strident in my opinions about this franchise. I didn't like T3 and I'm nervous about McG taking the reins of T4. -
Based on the short story by Ellison, from which Terminator sprang.
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Here's the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yFjvpFU1ZU -
With overblown fight scenes which had more in common with Freddy vs. Jason than James Cameron. Don't forget the military guys with all the sublety of Under Seige 2: Dark Territory....complete with lines like "I've just opened Pandora's Box." Brilliant. Also, it's was real gritty when the movie opened with Arnold getting tricked out with Elton John glasses and the antagonist inflates her boobs. Shit like really goes a long way in establishing a badass tone.
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Glad to see you more civil, though this *is* AICN TB, so I have to call you penisface or lose my AICN street eCred. I guess the movie really hinges on JC's character for people to really embrace it. After some initial, "WTF is this shit? Where is the leader of humanity?!?" confusion, I really got into what they did with him. He's a confused, lonely, drug addict, and I loved that. By the end of the movie, you see the seeds of the great fighter that is to come. If you don't buy into that character arc, then the movie won't work for you. And that's cool, I can actually understand that. But it floored me. Talk about taking an unsafe, unconventional route in a franchise that had rock hard male leads(the exception being fucking Furlong) previously. That, and the ending being the near-annihilation of humanity, you just cant do that in Hollywood. After my GF and I saw T3 for the first time, we were discussing how, if it was backed by Hollywood, no way would they allow those two major developments to hit the screen. "So...your hero is a drug addict? Yeah, our demos show that the Red states won't like that too much. Maybe he has a sweet-tooth instead? Snickers will provide product placement. And about this ending...we can't show bombs exploding in the continental USA. It implies weakness. Dubya won't like that". As for your contention that it didn't connect with "millions", you realize it grossed $433 million dollars, worldwide, right? And that's not counting DVD sales. Finally, don't take my liking T3 for an endorsement of T4, though I DO like the fact the same writers are back. McG should be shot for his name alone.
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Agreed about McG and his McName. Sounds like a Big Mac and fries with that, huh? Oh yeeahh!
Honestly, T4 could be a good movie even with McG, Ronald McD, and his fry guys directing. Fast food violence in spades might just be entertaining. But respectfully, I'll disagree with you about T3. You make a good case about John Connor being a drug addict loner who rises to his machine-crushing destiny, but I thought the story could've been handled differently. I would've liked to have seen more introspection, more jaw-clenching hatred of the role he would be forced to play, more specific ability to handle warlike situations. Strength often rises out of weakness pushed aside for the greater good, I realize, but I didn't buy Mostow's John Connor. Even as a drug addict loner, he should've been quirkier and more able to dish out extreme violence. In fact, a scene I was hoping to see was a flashback or showdown with someone from his recent past. Like a drug dealer who tried to kill his girlfriend. Or a cop who tried to do the right thing and throw him in jail. Wouldn't it have been intense to see a flash, for just a moment, of what he might be capable of? This was something T3 lacked, in my opinion.
I'm not sure I'm happy the T3 writers are back for T4, but I'm with you in hoping they somehow bring a compelling, ass-kicking tale to the table. -
JC kicking someone's ass in the present would have been cool, I'm totally with you on that. But yeah, we'll just not agree on this issue, which is fine. Just tired of T3 being bashed non-stop for reasons I strongly disagree with. Anyway, nice discussion, let's hope T4 doesn't totally blow.
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dude, i loved Terminator 3! nick stahl was great(as usual), claire danes was great/hot (as always), we had Ahnold back as the baddest robot EVER, a super sexy female terminator, and a million dollar ending. T4 HAS to take place during the terminator/human war because that's the only place it can. Arnold can sit this one out cause we don't need him, but he MUST be back for part 5, cause it should be the be-all/end-all final chapter. which is great cause he should be done governing Califoria by then. WIN/WIN!
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dude, i loved Terminator 3! nick stahl was great(as usual), claire danes was great/hot (as always), we had Ahnold back as the baddest robot EVER, a super sexy female terminator, and a million dollar ending. T4 HAS to take place during the terminator/human war because that's the only place it can. Arnold can sit this one out cause we don't need him, but he MUST be back for part 5, cause it should be the be-all/end-all final chapter. which is great cause he should be done governing Califoria by then. WIN/WIN!
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MAYBE showing the nukes going off was obvious and unimaginative, but THAT'S WHERE THE STORY GOES! it's what comes next! the next movie HAS to be the robot/human war, cause that's the next step. where else could this franchise go? more running around trying to stop something that can't be stopped? redundant!
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would make a great Kyle Reese in my opinion.
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Holy Shit I totally second that! That is some good casting.
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Having seen both Charlies Angels films and the TV series, "Chuck", I'm not too worried about McG directing T4. Hear me out. Take away the baggage of the storyline and tone and look at how he frames his action scenes. You are never lost with what's going on. He is great at setting up geography of a scene and the action itself (even on a TV show) is pretty damn good. The question mark for me is if he's going to be able to handle a darker tone. That's the only red flag for me.
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...ballsy? A surprise? I saw it coming from the very beginning, and I have this uncanny obliviousness that never lets me see movie endings coming. How ballsy could it be to end it with Judgment Day? What the hell was the alternative? An ending that was an absolutely uninspired retread load of crap in which the terminator is destroyed and disaster is averted? How ballsy is it to go with the only alternative?Don't get me wrong. I thought T3 had a couple extremely solid action sequences (truck/crane car chase & the hand-to-hand combat in the restroom), and I thought it brought a few fresh elements to the story. (I particularly liked Arnold's Terminator's expertise and use of human psychology.) But the humor was bad - much worse than Terminator 2 - and the story lacked any of the gravitas of the first two films. I am absolutely flabbergasted to see so many people here rank T3 above T2.I echo the skepticism above about McG.
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Why the hell do we need a "Terminator" replacement for Arnold? Want Vin Diesel or Dwayne Johnson? Fine, sign 'em up, but make them resistance fighters. If it's a full-blown war, then there won't be too many "infiltrator" Terminators walking about in skin. Mostly it will just be a shit-ton of skinless T-800 and AI-operated tanks and flying HKs. Sure a "oh no, one of the soldiers isn't what he seems to be" subplot could be fun, but we certainly don't need another assassin cyborg or a "good" one. What we want is to see a bunch of kickass resistance fighters getting the shit kicked out of them by the neverending forces of SkyNet in at least the first two movies of this new trilogy. Oh, and please make Kyle Reese a main character at some point! How wild would it be if the third film ended with an adult John Connor sending Reese back in time.............effectively ending the franchise right where it starts!
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If i had millions id sign you up to write the next three movies, because dammit that would work perfectly. If the hollywood heads insist on more Terminators, then yes, lets bring it to a complete 360 back to the beginning!
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Its simple. Terminator 3 was a decent entry into the Terminator world that James Cameron created. Thing is, personally I just didn't get that feeling i got as a kid watching Judgement Day...and then watching the original. It felt different. Plus I'll still go on record to make the statement that T2: Judgement Day is one of the all-time best action movies, and I cant say the same about T3. Doesnt mean it was bad, but come on...its no where near T2 status, or even The Terminator.
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I mean Mc G makes crap, souless, bubble gum pop action crap....wahat differentaited the Terminator series (particularly the second one) was that it had great big budget ation, but genuine intelligence and HEART...I mean you actually give a shit about John Connor and his relationship with a fookin robot, and the ending really can get you choked up...plus it was a film of ideas and could really engage you...mcG can just parade around a lot of pretty pictures and big explosions from what Ive seen....sigh.
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...it's the script doodz, the fellas who thought it would wacky and zany to have "Talk to the hand!" in the script. What's this one gonna have? "Don't go there!" or another timely reference from some Friends-era catchphrase? I'm not saying that was the single-worst part of the overall utterly unremarkable movie, but it's emblematic of a production that was a total fart. CRANE SEQUENCE? Still snoring.
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Oct 11, 2007 7:39:00 AM CDT
Timothy Olyphant? Was that the guy from that Bruce Willis movie?
by thenorthlander
How about someone a bit less emo like maybe Chris Crocker?
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Maybe McTool will grow a heart and realise that making this is a horrible thing to do.
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This is what I wrote after seeing it in the theater:
The movie is full of holes, and if you saw the first two films, you'll see them without a problem, because they're huge. They basically rewrote T2 with T3. And the thing that's most annoying about it is that it wasn't necessary. They could've just as easily kept with the continuity of the first 2 films. But they simply chose not to. That aside, I liked it. It stands as a good movie on its own. The ending left it so that there could be a fourth, but there doesn't have to be. I would like to see a fourth because I'm a fan of the franchise, but I also think that this is a good ending to the franchise, if that makes any sense. Nick Stahl is really good as John Connor, but I thought Edward Furlong was horrible. So I was relieved to see anybody but him. -
As soon as he gets his ass out of prison! He's due another action masterpiece.
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It isn't a patch on the first one. Mind you neither is T2
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Agreed. We have to see John sending Reese back and end it there. Kind of puts the characters in a never ending cycle; trying to stop what's inevitable.
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You're right:
Silberman: Is that when you captured the lab complex and found that.. What is it called ... the time displacement equipment?
Reese: That's right. The terminator had already gone through. Connor sent me to intercept and they blew the whole place.
Silberman: Well, how are you supposed to get back?
Reese: I can't .. nobody goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him, and me.
But I just figure it was built once, it could be built again. Doesn't bother me too much.
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So that last paragraph isn't so jumbled. Reese didn't say "But I just figure it was built once, it could be built again. Doesn't bother me too much.", That was me.
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what like this?
http://tinyurl.com/zhf94 -
Sort of a comment on the silliness of the name.
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you can actually make paragraphs.
I feel like I've taken my first step into a larger world. -
Oct 11, 2007 9:33:08 AM CDT
They should really give it to Ridley Scott. It would be a cool
by crichtonastronut
After James Cameron did the sequal to Scott's Alien. You'd have thought he'd have been the natural succressor to Cameron for that alone. Plus, he does badass scifi action. See Alien for example.
My gripes on T3. The whole premise made the heroic last act of T2 pointless.
And NO SARRA CONNOR. Forget JohnBoy whoever's playing Linda Hamilton was the heart and soul of that series. And who doesn't love watching her go badass on liquid T with a a shot gun and one working arm.
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Terminator 2 is a masterpiece. The story is structured perfectly so that the plot keeps moving forward while filling in exposition and keeping a perfect balance with the well-crafted action sequences. Take the scene at Enrique's settlement. In this scene we see the Terminator learning about humans, John bonding with the Terminator, John talking about his upbringing in such militarized compounds, and then we see Sarah reacting to seeing her son bonding with the machines she hates and sets off to kill Dyson. This passage in the film accomplishes so much at once. This film delivers some of the best known and loved action sequences of all time and still works in great character arcs.I think Furlong was a great choice for John because he doesn't seem like a strong leader, he's actually been rebelling against this destiny because he thought his mum was crazy and he just seems like a confused screwup teenager. If you take River Phoenix's performance in Stand By Me that would've been all wrong. That kid seemed like a leader. He radiated strength. Furlong was a better choice for the juxtaposition of a boy and the man he would become. You know when they were promoting The Phantom Menace and you saw that poster of little Anakin casting the shadow of Vader. That was a powerful image. George Lucas did a bad job with his prequel, but Furlong's performance in T2 accomplishes all the power of that image of juxtaposition of a typical youth and a powerful warrior. At the begining of the film John seems like a typical loser who just disrespects his whitetrash foster parents and wastes time at an arcade. Over the film we see John actually start to believe his destiny and we see the qualities that would make him a great leader. His devotion to his mother, his refusal to let the Terminator kill people. Other character arcs such as Sarah breaking down and not killing Dyson, Dyson growing to hate his work, and of course the Terminator learning why people cry and realizing it is something he could never do.T2 even works as a standalone film. I know this because I had not seen T1 when T2 came out. T2 was my favorite movie when I was a kid, but the video store near my house didn't have T1, so I couldn't rent it until years later when I had already been watching T2 over and over. This is a damn perfect action movie.
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here here!
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Oct 11, 2007 11:02:26 AM CDT
Here! Here! Indeed. Sarra regaining her hope. John accepting h
by crichtonastronut
Then Sarra reagaining her comassion and Dyson taking resposibility for what he made. And a Terminator learning what it means to be human. Brilliant work. Epic and Meaningful. And the characterizations and developments were spot on. Great comments Spandau.
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Oct 11, 2007 11:43:55 AM CDT
Spaundau is correct. All you geeks hating on T2
by grammaton cleric binks
were doing nothing but singing it's praises when it came out. The box office revenue says I'm right. From T-100 to T-1000 liquid metal, Sara Connor going from the dumb waitress to hardcore beotch. Robert Patrick nailing an emotionless Terminator. It was all great, and flowed beautifully from T1,even though us Biehn fans were disappointed. Who was it who said the lead characters were bland? Neo Zed? What the hell movie were you watching? T2 was so great they made T3. Too bad Furlong became a drunk. Unlike the Terminator movies you can't go back and change your opinion now. The future was set then. As far as T4, we'll see.
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in T3 not T2. That's what I wrote before.
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The rest stands T2 haters
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but never actually tried to suck it...is that even possible? Anyways..
Cobbio, people like what they like. Going on a foul mouthed tirade about it doesn't make you right. It just makes you foul mouthed. But as the other poster said, I guess that's part of TB life here at AICN. I'm no apologist, I'm actually fairly hard on most things. I just don't see how T3 is this awful movie. The only thing I do acknowledge is that it feels nothing like the other two Cameron directed flicks and maybe that's why most people have a problem with it? Anyway. If you don't agree...cool, that's your choice. No harm, no foul. Just try not to pop a blood vessel when you're doing it. -
Ewok, ever since I've been coming here (as I recall, back in 2000?) the site is littered with immature, pimply-faced kids with more hormones than good sense spouting off their opinions as fact. Cobbio just adds to the Ain't It Cool (News) scrapheap of loudmouths.
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He *is* the franchise.
T3 was pretty good, I thought. -
No problemo. Chill out dickwad. No problemo. I know now why you cry. I swear I will not kill anyone. I need a vacation. Trust me.
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That's all.......
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that he and the war was from one POSSIBLE future. The point is you can change your future because it's not set. That's about all he and Connor knew about the time machine. There's nothing to suggest there wasn't more time machines or that Skynet didn't send more things into the past or even future to ensure its own existance in Cameron's Terminator mythology. What Mostow did however was say that all of a sudden you can NOT change your future, only postpone it a bit. That's a pretty big diverson.
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Let me state AGAIN (after watching it back in '91 or whenever it came out and ever since - including on these talkbacks) T2 SUCKED BALLS!!
It didn't just have flaws all over it - it actually CREATED flaws in the first film that weren't there before! Like the fact there is no more time machine that has already been mentioned.
John Connor - how old is he exactly? If he was conceived in 1984 (as the police file photo of the T-800 suggests the timeframe is for the first movie) then by the time Judgement Day rolled around he would be... 12? 13 years old?
Basically T3 was T2 done right.
T2 was like Superman 3 - pretend it never happened and you can continue on with the franchise no problems. T1 absolutely shits all over them both but I was able to walk away from the theatre after watching T3 without too much to compain about whereas T2 left me feeling sad for what they did to such a great story.
And I reckon that car chase (if you can call it that) was one of the best I've seen on film since Bourne Identity - which was damn near Bullit quality!
btw was Sgt Candy a cheeky little dig at David Prowse? The only way Arnie should be making an appearance in another Terminator movie - if at all! -
ps. If they time it right, maybe they can have a new Guns & Roses track for this one too...
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You have a problem with Timothy Olyphant as Reese who you claim is "too emo"? Have you watched the original film The Terminator at all? If Michael Biehn's performance of Reese is not that of an emotionally wounded individual then I don't know what is. Couple this with the fact that Olyphant is a Biehn's dead-ringer twin and it's perfect. Though he might be a tad old to play young Reese.
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"THE FUTURE BEGINS" is the stupidest tagline in the history of stupid.
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"Spandau Belly" writes the funniest comments on here.
Apart from me of course.
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