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Copernicus sees Ang Lee's NC-17 flick LUST, CAUTION at TIFF!!!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with another great Toronto report from our resident rocket scientist. Thanks for keepin' them coming in, Copernicus!
What kind of world do we live in that Ang Lee can out-kink Paul Verhoeven, and Paul Verhoeven can out-direct Ang Lee? Ang Lee's latest, LUST, CAUTION (SE, JE), has almost exactly the same premise as Paul Verhoeven's hit of the last Toronto Film Festiveal, BLACK BOOK. Both are stories set in countries occupied during WWII where a member of the resistance must seduce one of her treacherous overlords so she can fuck her people free. Complications arise.
You might have heard that the MPAA's censors are slapping LUST, CAUTION with an NC-17 for "filth." Ok they don't call it that, but let's cut the crap. And Ang Lee has essentially told them to fuck off. Good for him! It isn't like this is nasty, dirty porn, it is Ang Lee, super-artist, for Christ sakes. He can even make the Hulk pretentious. But I will say this -- he almost makes Paul Verhoeven look like a puritan. There were sex positions in LUST, CAUTION that I'm still trying to work out the topology of, and I have advanced degrees in math! I'm pretty sure some of them violated the Poincare conjecture. Having said that, Ang Lee just doesn't have the freak-sex panache that Paul Verhoeven does. Verhoeven realizes that a little beefcake goes down easier with a side of cheese. but when people disrobe in an Ang Lee movie, put on your turtleneck and John Lennon glasses, because some serious shit is about to go down. There will be some crying later.
Now before you go acusing me of being an Ang Lee hater, or Paul Haggis sympathizer, or whatever you talkbackers are into branding people if they don't fall into your camp these days, check out my BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN review from last year. Nobody does perverted forbidden love like Ang Lee, and here he outdoes himself in terms of setting up obstacles and more-pushing acts. This is all fine, but along the way he committed an unforgivable sin -- one of the characters does something so outrageously stupid that I just wasn't going for it. It took me out of the movie. It is central to the plot, and I understand exactly why it had to happen thematically, but I just was not in there with them. And I understand that this is at least partly based on a true story, and it even had to happen that way to make the most artistic sense, I am just saying that I wasn't buying what they were selling. Chalk it up to the acting, the script, or the director, but in the end Ang Lee has to make me believe, and he didn't quite.
The only other major negative is the running time. At two and a half hours, he could have cut a couple of dozen games of Mahjong, or some of the bickering of the rebel crew, or furtive, yet meaningful glances. Having said that, the film is epic in scope, gorgeous, masterfully shot, and even interesting. I have to confess that before this film, my most extensive exposure to WWII Shanghai was TEMPLE OF DOOM. Of course the Ang Lee's Shanghai and Hong Kong are worlds that are layered, nuanced, beaten down by the ravages of war, but animated with political intrigue and repressed hope. The performances are almost uniformly spectacular. In particular Tony Leung Chiu Wai practally smolders as Mr. Yee.
In the end, LUST, CAUTION is a good, watchable movie. But it isn't great. Maybe I expect too much from Ang Lee, but there is little margin for error when you make people put on their serious hat. So it is a little unfair to compare this to BLACK BOOK, but I left from seeing that with a huge smile on my face. I am sad to say I came away from LUST, CAUTION mostly perplexed and a little disappointed.
-Copernicus
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FIRST WHOO
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Ang Lee out-kinking Paul Verhoeven! By the way Copernik, didn't you see Empire of the Sun?
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I was hoping to stop the first posters.
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Or will Lee do some editing before it's released?
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I do have to take offense at the mention that "Nobody does perverted forbidden love like Ang Lee", in reference to Brokeback. As a gay man, I can say, there's nothing perverted about the sex in Brokeback. There were no diapers, rubber mats, leather masks, whips, or anything, so I'm not sure what part of the sex was perverted? :P
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... the doing it up the butt portion. How dare he! Anyway, Ang Lee is a really creative director who is willing to take his time to let the story go where it needs to. I really liked Crouching Tiger and the Hulk was great. It was like someone took something completely far-fetched and said, "Crap, what would we do if that happened?!" Kind of like Shaun of the Dead, except not funny ;).
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Dude, you totally beat me to the punch on that. This review lost just about all credibility with me the minute I read those words. Perverted forbidden love? Forbidden maybe, in the context of the setting. But even then, the love scene in Brokeback was all of 5 seconds. That's probably exaggeration, but you get the idea. The sex was SOOOOO not important in Brokeback. I was really annoyed at people when that film first came out and everyone was saying, "gay cowboy movie". No, no, no. It's NOT a gay cowboy movie. It's a love story that happens to feature one gay character and one bi character.
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It was lacking in depth and focused on single aspects of the writing.
But that whole paragraph dedicated to the sex is pure gold.
I can't wait to see this....on DVD when I'm eighteen :( -
was the gay shepherd movie as it was sheep they were keeping an eye on after all (unless I was so drunk watching that movie I forgot what kind of quadruped they were looking after) but I do get your point.
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Clarkent (and others), "perverted fobidden love" was a joke in reference to BROKEBACK, thought maybe people would read my review of that and get that part, but sometimes things don't come through in print. Sorry if I caused any offense. I did sort of mean it literally in reference to LUST, CAUTION. Semi-spoiler: falling for a murderer who has raped you, I would define as a perversion of love.
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Every other thing I've read from TIFF has called it nothing less than a masterpiece.
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Ang Lee’s most accomplished film to date, Lust, Caution is an ode to the cinema of yore, replicating the glamour and style of old Hollywood while renewing its complex structures and themes. Lust, Caution’s subject, like many hallowed thrillers before it, is resistance—here the Chinese resistance during the second Sino-Japanese War of the ’30s and ’40s. Tang Wei plays Wang, a young woman swept away by a revolutionary enclave of students in Hong Kong, who soon finds herself used (in several senses of the word) as their mole, assuming the identity of socialite Mrs. Mak in order to cozy up to Japanese collaborator Mr. Yee (Tony Leung). Wang’s disturbing compromises are clearly meant to recall those of Ingrid Bergman’s Alicia in Notorious, and Lee goes one further than Hitchcock by graphically presenting us with the sexual acts she must endure. The ideas remain the same, however, and are just as transfixing: the milieu and aftermath of war as high theatre; the pellucid, then obscuring, qualities of sex; the complex domain of female sexuality, especially as it is read—obsessively and constantly—by various factions of social and political power.
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this no matter what. I never got around to seeing Black Book (Verhoven is a mixed bag in my opinion), but it's good to see Ang Lee is still pushing boundaries.
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So when will AngLee come out of the closet?
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...FYI...
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The entire premise of BM was perverted. Get some help.
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it was a good movie about a relationship that ended badly, it just so happened the relationship was between 2 men. You people are the same people that whacked off to the Tilly/Gershon action in BOUND, so you're being hypocrites whining about Brokeback. I'm a hetero dude that likes watching shit like QAF and the LOGO channel, doesn't make me gay. (or senatorial for that matter) All of this stuff is just about relationships, sure, some of the homo oriented stuff focuses more on the spectre of HIV and modern bigotry - and has much better soundtracks, but all-in-all it's the same vein.
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First, there was his retarded insights on Tarantino in in his so called review of THE BRAVE ONE. Although he didn't so much review the movie as he did copy and paste someone else's review.
And now in a review for Lust, Caution he flat out calls every homosexual perverted. The guy is an idiot, his reviews are shallow, and he knows shit about movies. -
what are they fucking in a hyper-cube?
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I love Ang Lee's movies, but that is one mistake that will never be forgiven.
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All Hail Copernicus!
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Saying that it didn't matter that it was two guys kinda misses the point of the entire movie. Thing is, their romance was forbidden. Hence Jake Gyllenhall getting beaten to death and all. It wasn't irrelevant that it was a homosexual relationship. Then again, it wasn't perverted either. A decent reviewer (and a non-homophobe) would've chosen his words a little more carefully.
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most overrated director today. hate all his movies.
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i couldnt care less what people do. i really couldnt care less. just call it what it is: BUTTLOVE
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You can only do so much with the Hulk.
And the Hulk movie was ok. -
A one trick pony that got old quick. Hated the Hulk, hated The Ice Storm. I liked Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Ang Lee needs to stick to films with kung fu and wire work.
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Brokeback was Boring. And Heath Ledger's worst performance. Even worse than 10 Things I Hate About You. Or that movie where he was a rock-and-roll knight. A Putz in King Arthur's Court, I'm thinking was the title.
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10 good seconds in Brokeback. That was it.
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http://twitchfilm.net/site/view/ tiff-report-lust-caution-review
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Yes, hot asian chicks getting laid. I'm curious about the positions mentioned above as they sound quite fun. Gotta try em.
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...just sayin
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Why do people think his movies are any good? I did not care for any of them. He is like the art house version of John Woo post Hard Boiled. I know they are of different Asian decent.
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I did say that the forbidden part was right, didn't I? Anyway, the point of that movie isn't forbidden love, it's one person's unwillingness to give love and the consequences of that unwillingness. I liked Brokeback, but I will say that after I watched it, I found myself a little tired of Lee's penchant for movies about the withholding of love. One of the main themes of just about everything he does is withholding love. Even the "genre" stuff. In Crouching Tiger, Chow Yun Fat's character withholds love from Michelle Yeoh. In Hulk, Bruce's father withholds love from him. Enough. We get it. Emotionally unaccessible people cause trouble.
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Series7, are we talking about the same Ang Lee? Not only are they of different Asian descent, but Woo is predominantly (almost exclusively) an action movie director, whereas Lee is a dramatic movie director. Totally different styles, totally different subjects, totally different narrative concerns. Lee is good because he gets great performances from actors, he frames like a motherfucker, he knows how to manipulate the flow of narrative to suit his needs... He's just good. I know, not everyone's into the whole repressed character drama, but don't knock the guy if you can't even make a proper comparison. I'd say Lee is more like a non-comedic Woody Allen than he is like John Woo.
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I've seen most of Ang's movies, and as far as character driven drama's I am just bored and unsatisfied for most of them. I just used the comparison to Woo because they were both Asian, and ever since Woo's been in America his movies have been lacking. I realize the comparison is weak, but its late. As far as comparing him to Woody Allen?? Woody movies are all about himself, I do not see Ang movies being all about Ang? Like Ang I just can't ever believe the hype. His movies are way too slow and there are always so many other better version of what he has done. The only good thing I can say about Angus is that he is versatile, and that is huge for a director. But he brings the same boring to each genre he attempts. For every genre he has tried to do, he has never had the best movie in that genre. To quote Letterman "I saw Crouching Tiger this weekend and I was asking myself 'Where are all the tigers and dragons?'then I realized they were all crouching and hidden!" It's just I've seen what he can do, and I've seen other directors do it a lot better. The closets he has come to doing something great is broke back, only because the closest thing to it is a gay porno. Plus he brought back the western, leave it to the man from Taiwan to bring back the Ole'West. Like his movies may be pretty.... but they are also pretty boring. And his movies are never as controversial as they are always foretold to be. I think he should stick to one style and make the most of it and own it, rather then making decent movies in a bunch of different styles. I mean he came back Black Angus style after The Hulk, were he a lesser director he would have given up, or sold out. I give him props for not selling out..cough cough Woo HOO!
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Notice the scenes with Hulk, Bruce Banner and Jennifer Connelly were great - just like the comic book. What ruined the movie was every scene with Nick Nolte. Fuck, Nolte is garbage. This is one actor that Hollywood needs to force into retirement.
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gay sex? it's just sex
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Have you seen The Good Thief? Nick Nolte does not need to retire (even if he supports a child molester). The biggest problem with the Hulk was the casting, Bana and Connelly were crap. Connelly sucks at pretty much everything but we all want to pretend she is Oscar worthy. Dark City was the best thing she has ever done. Requiem I liked her in, until I read the book. The book to movie translation is very good, probably one of the best but if you are too into either it will bug you, stick with which ever one you like. The movie wanted shock value which I am all done for, but for this after reading the book I felt really cheated. But the Hulk was miss cast all over that's why it sucked. Plus Ang Boring Lee didn't spice it up, and Elfman has been on autopilot since either Mars Attacks or Apes ReAttack you take your pic, it'll be interesting to see how (my hope for a great movie) The Kingdom Turns out. (On a side note, if Berg doesn't win an Oscar with this movie, just watch he will before the end of his career, he is over looked and possible the best new director out there right now). But lets see what Louis can do? I feel like Dominic Purcell was the best casting of the hulk, but his career is going nowhere. I really do not see Norton as Hulk? But I see Louis understanding comic books more then Hack Lee and Louis giving us a more comic feel. And lets face it, everyone here feels like the Hulk sucked, and if you want to defend it??? Why bother? Even Ang Lee didn't want to defend it, so why should you. If the director can say a movie sucked... then who really cares what anyone else thinks?
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..is it homophobic to think ass sex is pretty gross? The answer is no, but it is probably ignorant to associate ass sex with homos. There are somewhere between 10 and 12 million openly gay people in this country, out of about 250 million sexually active adults. In a recent survey, only 2/3rds of homos say they practice anal sex. (There are other things they can do with each other.) And surprisingly, upwards of 40% of heterosexuals admit to either trying it or having it regularly. That means there are about 8 million homos having ass sex, compared to about 100 million heteros doing it. So when Fred Phelps-types hold up their little "entrance not an exit" signs and wail about unnatural sodomy, you have to wonder when they are going to get around to the massively larger number of heteros who are not having 'natural' sex to make babies with tab A in slot B. This is why I support equal rights for gays 100%. Because when those religious nutjobs are done putting gays back in the closet, or in concentration camps or whatever the hell they think they are going to do, guess who they are going to come after next? You and me. Staring with our movies and our right to see Janet Jackson's titty during the Superbowl. I know I sure as hell don't want those people making religious laws that I have to live by, even if I do believe in God. Not everyone believes in their version of God, but they don't care. America is about freedom that doesn't trample on the freedom of others. Two homos getting married has no effect on my life whatsoever. But a law that says I can't pork my wife in the crapper or read and watch whatever I want does affect me. So while supporting gays rights to marry and make poop babies might not seem important to us, it really is very important. Because repressed people who choose to shame others using their religion don't understand that their efforts are actually making things worse. Look at Larry Craig and Mark Foley. That's what happens when gays are encouraged to be closet-cases. Then they really do turn into "perverts". Because they have no relatively healthy outlet for their desires. That's what Brokeback Mountain was about. So, if you think ass sex is gross, think about what a nice world it would be if gays had equal rights and you didn't have to read about gay ass sex and toilet sex every day in the news.
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Man! You're way too interested in this stuff - quot'n stats and spoutin' all your fears. You make up your own version of God, like He's a salad bar where you pick and chose what you like (Big Trouble in Little China). Things stink'n is your warning to keep away. Dead bodies stink - keep away for goood health reasons. Public restrooms stink, so do your business and get out. The smell of poop makes you horny, YOU'VE GOT PROBLEMS! The poop shoot is for exiting poison from your body, so, it stinks. Shoving things up it is not cool or natural. That's why bladder infections and worse happen from this. Now can we get back to the films please. Ang Lee is BORING. Takes way too long to make his little points.
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...no wire work. -
Sorry this seems to be getting hijacked by the Gay awarness brigade.. FWIW I got the joke right off the bat and smiled.
I labeled this movie as "THE LOVER 2 (more nostalgic asian tug and tickle) as soon as I saw the trailer.. but its missing the most important part.. No Jane March! but I guess that brings us full circle with her role in COLOR OF NIGHT. sigh ya just cant escape it! -
What does that mean anyway? I'm really not up to date on this Talkback shorthand.
BTW, I would like to change wire work to "wire-fu#$". It just seems more appropriate. -
Wow, you apparently have it ALL figured out don't you?
Just avoid anything & everything that's a wee bit smelly & all the world's troubles & issues will be solved. Right?
Wow, I didn't know that ...
But, tell me, how's that work with cooch?
Me, I try to to only get near the good stuff & I find that when I do, I rather like the smell & some of it even tastes like peaches. But, what happens if my woman happens to be having a wee bit of an "off day"? ( you know, they all have them once in a while, just like the bishop & the boyz aren't always as Irish Spring fresh as we'd like them to be )What do I do then? Avoid her "down there" at all costs for fear I'll get one of those dreaded infections you talked about or what?
Please impart some of your wisdom on us ... -
What's there not to like? Did you haters even watch the movie? There was no raw buttsex, so why so squeamish?
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Make up my own version of God? Dude, I don't believe in any God whatsoever, and I'm damn proud of it. I was commenting on -other people- using their Invisible Superfriend as an excuse for what is nothing more than hate. I'm proud that I can tell right from wrong and humane from inhumane with the aid of my own conscience, as opposed to having the "help" of a money-grubbing preacher and an ancient book written by imperfect men. I'm glad I don't live a life where I believe I can commit any horrible act I want on Saturday, because a pretend man in the sky will forgive me for it on Sunday. I know a lot about this subject and many subjects because I choose to educate myself, as opposed to choosing to live in fear of something I don't understand. Why is the last refuge of the pious always "You sure know a lot about it!" As if it were a bad thing to be well-informed and live without fear? The end of your little comeback makes no sense whatsoever. Where in what I wrote did I ever defend having sex in toilets? Did your attention span run out before the end of my post when I said it would be a better world if people didn't feel compelled to do those things?
As for whether or not it's appropriate to post things like this here; I really don't give a fuck. Some movies are made to prompt discussion and Lee's certainly fall into that category.
I got Copernicus' joke as well, I just didn't think it was funny. That's my opinion, and that's what talkbacks are for, so Suck Le Trou.
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