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More from Quint at Comic-Con! Neil Marshall's DOOMSDAY! BALLS OF FURY! Lo Pan! THE STRANGERS! CORALINE! More!!!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Time to catch up a bit on the Comic-Con coverage. Yesterday ‘bout damn killed me. I did 6 interviews, jumping in and out of panels all to do them. Next year I really need some help. I missed too much this year.
Also, looking back on it I’d say that this was one of the Con’s more off years. We had that one great movie panel (Paramount with Trek, Indy 4 and Iron Man), but I was underwhelmed by the Con on the whole. Nothing was too terribly disappointing, but the showmanship seemed out of the con.
However, I did like a lot of what I saw. The Rogue Panel featured BALLS OF FURY, THE STRANGERS and DOOMSDAY.
But first… a surprise pair stepped out. Neil Gaiman and Henry Selick waved to fans as the took a seat to announce that they were going to screen a presentation of CORALINE later that night. Unfortunately, this was a last minute, secret thing, so I had already planned a pair of interviews for that time period.
Here some bullet points:
-Cast includes Ian McShane, Terry Hatcher and Dakota Fanning.
-They Might Be Giants songs are in the movie.
-So will dead children.
-Guarantees to be a scary kids movie.
-Comes out next year.
Did any of you readers get a chance to see this footage? Drop me an email and let me know your thoughts.
BALLS OF FURY
I saw the flick, so look for that review in a day or two. The best part was Thomas Lennon, Ben Garant and Dan Fogler… plus a surprise visit from one of the cast members.
-Garant: “Think Van Damme movies in the ‘80s, but take out all the action and replace it with ping pong.”
-Tom Lennon came out, dressed in his stretchy spandex and paddle…
-The State DVD comes out October 20th on DVD with commentary on every episode and deleted scenes.
-They were asked to tell a good Christopher Walken story and boy did they… So, apparently, for a laugh, Walken would play this same gag on different crew members. In the morning he’d go to Ralphs or something and buy a birthday cake. Then he’d go to… say, hair and make-up and put the bithday cake down on the counter, then look all sad. When the target would ask if he’s alright, he’d sigh deeply and say, “Oh, it’s nothing…” then he’d wait a beat and nod at the cake… “It’s just my birthday…” Then he’d sit back and quietly enjoy people scrambling to cheer him up and try to celebrate his birthday. He did this three times during the shoot.
Footage:
They showed a scene where the lead is pitted against a giant black dude, played by the hilarious Terry Crews. Fogler and Crews square off, Crews starting with a little dance of his boob-sized pectorals and Fogler trying to make his man flesh giggle in return.
They cool-dance their way to the ping pong table… ultimately, Fogler wins and Aisha Tyler blow-darts Crews, killing him. Then you get the whole trailer moment where Walken goes to congratulate Fogler who freaks out. “What part of “sudden death” didn’t you understand?”
Then Lo Pan comes out and hassles the guys. James Hong himself came out, demanding tickets for the premiere.
He said he was important… because he is Lo Pan!!! (cue audience cheers) and “if I say don’t go see this movie, these people will not go see the movie because I am Lo Pan!!!” Then he did the pinky-hooked fingers thing to the delight of us geeks.
He spent the rest of the panel gaily petting Fogle and slow-dancing with him as Lennon and Garant continued to answer questions.
THE STRANGERS
Liv Tyler, Scott Speedman and young director Bryan Bertino (who looks shockingly like Joseph Gordon-Levitt) came out to show some footage from this off-the-radar horror flick.
I saw a movie once… haven’t been able to figure out the title, but in the ‘80s I snuck down to the living room as my mom slept on the coach and watched a really fucked up horror movie. It really left an impression on my psyche. It involved a bunch of masked men who kidnap/chase a group of school kids and their young teacher. Their masks were, like, Santa and other peaceful cute things. Of course, that just made it more fucked up when they killed a kid or something. Man. I really need to find that one again.
The footage I saw from THE STRANGERS reminded me of that movie. It’s about this couple (Speedman and Tyler) who have a quiet night at home when someone comes to the door and ruins their night.
Think STRAW DOGS mixed with that movie I don’t know the name of. More of an atmospheric horror movie, survival horror.
I grabbed a couple photos of the posters on preview night. If you missed them, check them out below.
You’ll get an idea of what the masks look like.
The clips they showed were short. The first was Liv Tyler alone. She had a kitchen knife in her hand. She’s freaked out, but nothing’s in the house. There’s the sound outside a closed window, covered by heavy drapes. The sounds is like a heavy steel pipe being drug on concrete.
Tyler inches up to the window, the suspense building and building, the sound growing louder and louder. She uses the knife to part the curtains. Of course, a masked face jumps into the exposed space, causing Tyler to scream and run back.
She knocks over some shit and bumps into a standing LP player, the needle slamming down on the vinyl and turning on. But there’s a skip now so, it’s really only the same 1.2 seconds playing over and over again.
This was actually a really neat device, which added even more tension to the scene as sounds from around the house disappeared, hidden under this scratched record. Then the front door shakes… and slowly swings open.
Once again, a masked face peers in as Tyler slams the door shut again with a scream.
Clip #2 was one with Speedman and Tyler together pushing a heavy upright piano up against the front door as one of the masked killers attacks it with a hatchet. The door is barely holding up when they finally get the piano pushed up against it. The axe goes through the wooden door fully and the next swipe embeds it into the piano top.
They also showed a trailer that starts like an old photo slideshow presentation of different suburban houses. It’s the horror trailer that starts off like a light comedy or other genre and then goes, “Gotcha!” Wait a minute! These aren’t people looking to buy a house! These are people picking a house to attack!
There were flashes of the 3 masked people… looked good and creepy. There was also a shot of Tyler all bloody and hurt, crawling on the floor. It’s like that above poster, but much more red.
I have a good feeling about this one. Kind of in the VACANCY vain, which I like. More personal horror.
From the panel:
-Of course, Liv was asked if she remembered any Elvish and she did… and she spoke it… and there was a collective nerd-gasm (I’m not excluding myself, so don’t think I’m judging the crowd).
-Scott Speedman was asked if he’d ever consider playing Captain America if approached… Speedman shrugged (and played with his shoulder muscle nervously the entire panel) and said “Absolutely.” I’m no UNDERWORLD fan (although there are a ton out there), but seeing Speedman on the panel, I kind of saw it and was shocked that I didn’t completely hate the idea.
-Liv Tyler read the script in 45 minutes on a plane from Japan and was pissed she couldn’t get the airphone working to call her agent about it.
-The film takes place over 4 hours.
DOOMSDAY
This is Neil Marshall’s newest. Think of it like this: ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK meets 28 DAYS LATER meets THE WARRIORS meets EXCALIBUR meets ROAD WARRIOR.
It’s about a virus that breaks out in north Britain. So, the Government erects a wall, cutting off Scotland. A generation later, the Government sends teams into what they expect will be a totally dead wasteland, but these guys find there are not only survivors, but this land has turned into a post-apocalyptic warzone. There are different sects and tribes all doing battle and these poor bastards are caught in the middle of it all.
Let’s talk about the panel first, then the footage.
-Marshall said he wanted to make a dark and brutal thriller.
-He guaranteed an R-rating. “It doesn’t hold back on the blood and guts, that’s for sure.”
-DOOMSDAY will see release next year… March or April.
-Budget was $30 million, compared to the $2 million he had on DOG SOLDIERS and $6 million he had on THE DESCENT.
-He prefers the original, UK ending for THE DESCENT. It’s the only one he considers the real ending.
-He has a script based on the 9th Legion, kind of a WARRIORS set in ancient Rome. True story. Hopes to make it soon.
-Not involved with Sherlock Holmes anymore.
They showed a trailer pretty much setting up the description from above. It’s shot well and really does look like it belongs in the same stylistic universe as ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK. At least for the majority of the footage I saw. Then at the end there’s a big car chase that I swear to God had the same film stock and lens package that George Miller used for ROAD WARRIOR.
Again, looks very promising. I’d expect no less from Marshall. I’ve loved his previous two movies.
That’s it for the Rogue/Focus panel. Got some more stuff coming, so keep ‘em peeled, squirts!
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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You all suck. As does Neil Marshall
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Just wondering, could it be the Australian classic FORTRESS, based on the novel by Gabrielle Lord?
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THEM? The French film which was reviewed on this very site a short time ago?
The one about the bunch of hoodies (kids who wear hoods) who terrorise a couple in their home? -
was a great little film. Marshall is shaping up to be Britain's first proper Carpenter-style genre director.
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He's bringin' it back for us brit filmmakers! Dog Soldiers - $2mil - PJ spent that on Braindead (or Dead Alive in the US) and look where he's at! Wasn't this film called 'Outpost' at one time, or is that the thing that fell through with Pathe? Either way - can't wait to see this motherfucker!
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Strangers sure sounds uncannily like Them. Anyone know if it is a remake?
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Ingmar Bergman has died.
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I was under the impression that The Strangers was a remake of Them, for some reason. I'm sure a quick IMDB search would clear it up. Maybe its just a similar case to I Now Pronounce You Plagarism. Interested in Doomsday, Dog Soldiers was fucking unwatchable dreck. The concept wasn't awful or anything, but the actual production was junk, and probally the most poorly edited film I have ever seen. The Descent was a BIG step up, but completely and utterly fell apart as a narrative story in the last third, which kind of ruined it for me. Hopefully this delivers all the way. Oh, and it definately would have been cool to see more Panel reports, and less go nowhere interviews. Anyone know what happened with all those flicks being pulled, or the Saw thingy?
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091069/
Funny, I also remember seeing it when I was younger (scared the living shit out of me), and I spent a long time scouring the earth for a copy of this made-for-tv film. You're in luck as (I guess by popular demand) it's out on DVD now. -
I knew you guys would solve this little mystery. I remember the scene where the kids and the teacher have to swim through a flooded cave and there's only an inch of space between the cave ceiling and the top of the water that they have to breath from.As for THEM, I've seen that film and while it shares a similar set-up, I didn't get that impression while watching the footage. At least stylistically, it's miles different. The size of the tormentors, for one, don't lead you to believe they're children. At least not all of them. But I got more of a STRAW DOGS vibe from this one.
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Just the idea of a Christopher Walken-starring film about ping pong is enough, but there's a decent cast, too. Maggie Q, Patton Oswalt, Terry Crews, Diedrich Bader, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa - not a bad line up, and hopefully all of them will be pinging pongs at some point.P.S. Looking forward to Doomsday. Dog Soldiers I thought was just okay, but The Descent was a good one. I hope this Marshall guy keeps improving.
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The way I understood it was that because some idiot parents freaked out last year at the Borat clip with the nude wrestling (which will go down as an all-time cinema classic moment, myopic morons!), the organisers were 'forced' to ask that all studios pre-submit for "family-friendly" approval, and that as these sneak-peeks are often last-minute (as they're still filming), many pulled out. Can't remember where I read it, so sorry no link.
Why does everyone think Descent is so damn good. Some of the worst characterisation EVER and stock standard clichés aplenty. I know everyone will think I'm trying to be cool by trashing a movie everyone loves (look at the Blade Runner thread for crying out loud), but I'm not. I just want someone to enlighten me.
I'm gonna go see The Strangers for sure. Creepy masks are always great, and I love "Livvy-Loo" as she's called in certain circles. Absolutely can't wait for Coraline either. -
It's weird you didn't like the characterisation in The Decent, half vader, because that was one of the things I liked best. I thought it was relatively cliche free for a horror - ie, no noble virgin or slutty bitch, etc. Also, I'm so tired of watching horrors where the lead characters are a bunch of obnoxious assholes I found it refreshing that Marshall made his group seem like a real bunch of women.Bonus points, too, for resisting the temptation to have them all take their tops off or to make at least one of them a lesbian.What would you describe as 'stock standard cliches'?
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it's mad max for christ's sake. And up until the very end the descent was brilliant. it was the sex. on toast. double spread.
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Only seen the UK version. They didn't give it a happy ending did they? I'm hoping that Doomsday is shown as a preview at the Edinburgh Dead By Dawn Festival next year. That would be cool beans.
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I was haunted by Fortress for a long time, too. Same things: the masks, the claustrophobic cave. I was relieved when I discovered what it actually was, but I've never seen it again. I bet it's crap.
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He is funny in EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS, and he made me pee myself from laughing in WHITE CHICKS, IDIOCRACY, and that one episode of MY WIFE & KIDS.
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She goes crazy, kills friend who fucked her husband, thinks she escapes, sees dead kid, is really still in the cave. Creepy. I liked it. How did the U.K. version end?
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In agree. He's funny as fuck in Idiocracy, and Everybody Hates Chris.
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Wrong way round Lost.Rules - UK ending is the one you describe - in the US ending she gets out, thinks she sees Juno (big jump)and the drives away - typical US crap ending
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I saw this on first day of release in UK and the ending absolutely made me drop a load (as the film did). I saw it again a few days later with a girl - she didnt wanna spend the night alone in the dark after that. Obviously, i didnt tell her id seen it and tried to not jump to show how cool i am. I still fucking jumped.
The UK ending is far better. -
you typically Brit. lol
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I try to keep my people happy
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Scary as anything. That movie really gets in your head and messes with you. The ending becomes a little crazy from what I remember, but I was a kid when I saw it. Maybe I just didn't "get it" back then. But holy shit, when they break into that elderly couple's farm, and then all hell breaks loose in the aftermath... that may have been the point in my life where childhood innocence is gone, and you know that there are people in this world that can do truly awful and evil things. I need that DVD.
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The best serious hardcore horror film since HAUTE TENSION.
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Sounds like the perfect Midnight Movie. The lineup looks pretty strong this year, but Doomsday or no Doomsday, they'll never be able to match last year when they had Borat, The Host and Severance.
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Is that they introduced the creatures too early. As we learned from Alien, the idea of danger is almost always scarier than the danger itself.
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cheers bud - looks like we did get the right ending then :)
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kind of weird that puzzling choices like collider were there but no one from aintitcool.
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If he was here right now? I'd bet he'd kick an ass or two, that's what Bryan Bertino'd do.I do apologise for that feloow TBers, but I just had an urge and had to act on it.Doomsday will undoubtedly rock, but will it make a decent profit??
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Damn, my memories of that film just hit me hard... haven't thought of it probably since I was a kid. It played fairly regularly on HBO or Showtime I think.
There was another strangely creepy movie that played around that time (it would play before or after Fortress) but I can't remember the title... I do remember a scene where a boy watched as his parents, stuck in their car, slowly fell into a crevisse opened up by an earthquake. I think it was a British or Australian film. Or was that a scene from Fortress? Anyone remember that one? -
Ya gotta love James Wong for all the Lo Pan references..I know this has been brought up before, but where's the Little China sequel? Russell looked good enough in Grindhouse to pull it off.
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That's how the Descent ended here in the United States. So how does the UK version end? Anyone?
Also, I too saw Fortress as a kid. Went with my dad on a business trip to NYC and caught it late night on TV. That movie seriously scared the shit out of me. I've always wondered the title to it, too. It's funny how everyone who's seen it saw it the same way. -
I think Moriarty had to drop out of that one and to be quite honest... I was so burned out that I just needed Sunday to get my head straight. I hadn't spent any time on the floor of the Con, so I just left the computer, camera and recorder in the hotel room and shopped, visited some artists... spent the day as a fan. I wanted the site to be represented, of course, but I was never really asked to be on the panel and by the time I knew AICN wouldn't have a presence on the panel I was just as happy to have a personal day. How was it? I know most of those guys, in at the very least a passing way.
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seriously, there's nowhere to go but down from her astonishing delivery of Tolkein elvish. I'll always love you, Ms. Tyler, but until the Silmarillion movie it'll never be the same.
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Jul 30, 2007 11:43:53 PM CDT
PING PONG: Harry's "Best of 2003," & a great date flick
by daddylonghead
seriously, any TBer who hasn't seen this amazing Japanese movie ("Ping Pong"), get to it. I have frighteningly weird tastes in literature, music, and film, and I use 2003's "Ping Pong" DVD as the way to break my dates into my film tastes, and none of 'em has ever disliked it.
It is a great flick, & reminiscent of when Harry had less "real life" and more time to be a cutting-edge tastemaker... remember who broke Korean cinema? Oh yeah, Harry... and this US crap, complete with hipster-bait Walken, is WEAK SAUCE in comparison.
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This movie looks AWFUL. But I would've loved it when I was 5.
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That crazy MF led the team to a repeat national championship last year. God bless you, Lo Pan.
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Seriously, it is a fabulous rollicking little B- movie. Ignore the shitty production values, and just laugh at some of the dialogue- from Sean Pertwee's devil tatto story, via the hooligan's chant when baiting the wolves, to the "They think it's all over" payoff- it really is a laugh a minute. I don't think it was meant to be frightening, as they clearly did not have a pot to piss in- so made an effort to make it a fun ride. The Descent is fabulous- the wife still refuses to watch it alone, and yet everytime she gets drunk insists on putting it on. Tension, characterisation, and a disturbing-as-fuck end. It was easily the best film of it's year. About the endings, I think the original US ending stopped after the juno scare (which is actually my one complaint with the film- cheap and not needed), on initial cinema release, but I think that the DVD version has the full version. (At least that's what my mate who lives in San Fransisco said- but he can be a bit clueless, so don't take it as gospel)Doomsday will make money. Fact. It only has a £15m budget- and he has enough of a following already to make at least £8-9m in the UK alone, before DVD sales. Worldwide, it will easily make cash. I remember, before Dog soldiers was released seeing an interview on the Culture Show on BBC 2, which heralded Marshall reviving the old Hammer studio and Ethos. In the days of wretched torture porn propogated by the talentless likes of Roth and Rob Zombie, this is a refreshing and worthwhile thing. Finally, I'm glad he isn't doing sherlock homes, but don't want him to do that Roman thing either- GIVE THE MAN ALIEN, let him take it back to it's roots and away from the AvP shite that is sullying its name. It is so fucking obvious I am amazed someone at Fox hasn't seen it. Sorry about the length of this, but I get enthusiastic about this subject.
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is like a stone cold stunner on my landlord. Bam!!! Here's August, you greasy fuckhead, bam!!! STUNNER, STUNNER, BAH GAHD, HE'S BROKE THE POTENTIAL EVICTION PROCEEDINGS IN HALF...
I agree with all Lost Prophet says, minus the slam on Roth. Yeah, the US theater ending of Descent was bolloxed up just as described, but it was such a good movie that for me, it actually in a weird way survived the Hollywood mangling. My (then) girlfriend and I were both so affected by the film that we discussed it all the way to the bar afterwards, and then when we went home we looked it up online, learned about the real (UK) ending, watched the real ending, discussed that, etc. Great flick. -
But I think I would have prefered the U.S. ending. I really hated the dream crap ending that I saw. I think if he had just played it as a straight narrative it would have worked alot better. Like I said though, he actually improved from flick to flick, and if Doomsday is actually good, It would be nice to see him tackle a real Genre mainstay like the Alien series.
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The reason the full end is better is simple. If she is loopy and has never recovered from the car crash (as has been suggested by the frequent dreams, etc) then her ending up batshit crazy hallucinating in a cave is a pretty horrific final sequence. It depends, if you prefer a shitty cheap scare and a happy-ish ending then stopping after the Juno scare is better. If you prefer the dark, fucked up no-one makes it out alive premise then the full one is better. DLH- sorry man, but regarding Roth- I calls them as I sees them. He is a man that is actually getting worse from film to film. I didn't mind cabin fever, hated Hostel 1 and then loathed and despised Hostel 2 to such an extent that I will never watch another one of his films.
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that lumped The Descent in with Totrture porn. That pissed me off no end.
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Descent was such a solid movie that the ending was almost besides the point... an anti-"twist" movie, especially impressive in the horror genre. Personally I thought the real (non-US) one was miles better, mostly because I am so sick of it being assumed that I am retarded just because I'm an American citizen, & that everything needs to be dumbed so far down. "OH NO, AMERICANS WON'T UNDERSTAND THAT HER ESCAPE WAS A DREAM, THAT WILL CONFUSE THEM AND CONFUSED AMERICANS ARE DANGEROUS LIKE OBESE STAMPEDING CATTLE." Because I'm at a lucid point in my 3-day-so-far bender, let me compare & contrast... with the real ending, the fact that she never escaped rendered "the juno scare" a scary part of a dying woman's delusion. With the stupid fucked-up US ending, it ends with the Juno scare, as if some supernatural element (undead Juno) had chased her from the cave, weakening the basic (Lovecraftian!) premise of inbred cave dwelleres by adding a generic yet narratively inexplicable spook scare. Granted, 99 percent of american theatergoers may indeed be legally retarded, & certainly there's nothing about my country that would suggest to an outsider that anyone unretarded lives here, but that doesn't mean we have to be pandered to by having works of art, or even the title of fuckin harry potter books, changed. Or that Tony Jaa flicks have to be butchered, or foreign films dubbed, etc. The movie "Idiocracy" more or less accurately represents contemporary American cultural life.
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yeah, that is my point. Both endings work- just the US one is weaker, as it is too derivative of Carrie (to name but one). Not that the rest of the film is not derivative, it is just an uneasy clash that weakens the film. American= obese retard. Sorry, but that is the way a lot of the world sees the US. I married an American, so I know it isn't true. As my best mate says: it isn't that Americans are more stupid. It's that there are more of them to be stupid. I seem to remember the proper ending testing badly in the US so it being shortend. But I may be wrong.
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about Americans being obese retards, you're talking to the wrong American.
And fuck "testing" movies. Do musicians "test" albums this way? Do authors "test" books? Christ. -
I had no idea he was so fond of Lo Pan!
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I know it's not true- I think you missed the point. I was saying that the whole world is, for the most part, stupid. It just gets put on America.totally agree about testing. It is a symptom of bottom line being all culture that dominates film. The reason music does not do it is that music has already got a formula for shitty boy/girlband crap that sells by the bucketload and can be churned out effortlessly, whereas film doesn't. Yet- just watch, when they crack it, there will be no more testing, but a shit load of identikit movies.
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What was it again, Harry Potter And The Magic Brick?
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I think his next film is about some Eastern Europeans, I don't know, Bosmanians or whatever (they're all the same, aren't they Roth?) abusing day-old babies and filming it for a twisted cult of super-rich postal-workers. Apparently Roth's going to use some stock footage he has under his bed. The man makes Beavis and Butthead look intellectual. The only thing he's done which isn't detestable is the 'Thanksgiving' trailer, which is great.
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I can see the similarities between The Descent and torture porn. Both rely on gore to scare (admittedly there was some creepy atmosphere in Descent) Both get kicks out of putting their protagonists through all sorts of nasty things. Both don’t hold out any hope…….pretty nihilistic.
Neil Marshall is a talented director (as is Eli Roth) but does not deserve any comparison to John Carpenter imo
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Their are no similarities between the descent and torture porn. The descent does not rely on gore to scare, the protagonists are not tortured for the sake of it. Rather, the fate that each character suffers is as a result of events that take place in the plot. The suffering serves the plot it is not there for it's own sake. The victims are despatched, but their suffering is not lingered on- torture porn is gratuitous. It is the gratification of the viewer through suffering. There is no plot to speak of, just extended scenes of mutilation. Did you watch the same film I did? Eli Roth is not talented. Let it go.
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Marshall doesnt do torture porn. Since none of his films have included torture or gore for the sake of gore. The Descent is atmospheric scary until the monsters come out. Yes there are squeamish moments but thats for shock factor. You're stuck in a cave, you cant get out, its really dark, you cant trust your mate cos shes fucking your husband, cos its a cave your friends are falling down holes and breaking their shit. Its not torture porn - its realistic (well, until barring the monsters).
As for Dog Soldiers - its a comedy. How the fuck is comedy torture porn? The closest you get to big gore in teh film is Sean Pertwees stomach falling out, and guess what? They use it for comedy purposes "Push it back in! use super glue!" and THE CHARACTERS ISNT DEAD AND HASNT BEEN MURDERED FOR KICKS.
Eli Roths Hostel films are about people who pay to torture people. Thats what its about. The gore is neccessary. If Roth made Hostel with the same plot (people paying to satisfy their bloodthirty kicks) by showing someone punching someone or by showing a quick stab and thats it - then we lose the point of the fucking film. The characters WANT TO BE GOREY. Hence torture porn.
As for Roths other stuff, its dogshit. I like the Hostels because they work. Cabin Fever is the most overhyped piece of wank iv ever seen. "Urgh, the girls pussy is all gooey with blood", "Urgh, that girl is sitting in a bath and shaving her skin off". Why? Its fucking stupid and i dont see the motivation. Also, the kid out of Boy Meets World annoys the fuck out of me in it, since he is supposed to be the hero but happens to sexually assault his best friend while shes sleeping. Thats not a hero i want to live. Fuck i hate that film.
Anyway - Neil Marshall has never and will never do torture porn. -
Still shit, but nothing is as mind numbingly dreadful as hostel. Except, obviously, Hostel 2.
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I think testing sometimes gets a bad name. What's the first thing you do when you finish writing a story or a song? You show it to (or play it for) a friend or loved one whose opinion and taste you trust and ask them what they think. Based on that feedback you tweak it.Audience testing is a similar thing. Film is not designed to be enjoyed solo, it's designed to be a group experience, so on its face, testing is not necessarily a bad thing, especially for a commercial film to gauge an audience reaction. The problem comes from talentless execs and weak-willed directors and producers solely relying on what a bunch of hillbillies scrawl on a comment card, as opposed to weighing the audience response against one's own taste and expertise and judging whether or not changes are warranted. If 95% of the people can't understand why X happens in the story, it's possible that something needs to be changed. Keep in mind I'm talking about studio films (though even most independent artists have a trusted group of people they go to for feedback.)
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It is one thing to show the work to an editor, A&R person, or whatever person with valid opinions that you trust. It is totally another to show it to a group of cretins picked at random. They should know that you can't satisfy everyone all of the time. But they don't. Just like they should know that it is possible to tinker and make thigs worse. But they don't.
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The feelings I had coming out of Descent and Hostel Part Two were very similar, as in boy that was unnecessary. If the meaning of gratuitous violence is something that is not necessary to further the plot, well then excuse me but most of the Descent was gratuitous. As I said I still think Marshall is a talented director and Hostel 1 gives me hope for Eli Roth (I never did get all the hate for him on this site, maybe it’s something to do with his personality outside of films, if it is then I really don’t give a shit)
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so you think the violence in Hostel was necessary, but not in Hostel part 2 or The Descent? I agree that the violence is needed, but how can you say that Hostel 2 it isnt needed? Its the same point but this time we see it from the Sadists point of view. Isnt that even more fucking necessary? If we were meant to be in the position of being tortured we should be shown less because we would look away (as they do in Hostel). In Hostel 2 its more necessary because the point of view we have is of the person causing the gore, so we should be seeing it more.
As for the Descent being over the top - ITS A HORROR FILM. The horror of 30 years ago relied on suspense, but for the last 15 years its been all "ooooh nasty man jumps out really expected ARGH!" so Marshall gave us both. We got the claustrophobic suspense, we also get shit loads of jumpy moments, and enough gore for the Jackass generation to scream at and rewatch.
Its a fucking amazing horror film.
As for Eli Roth - he isnt talented, he got lucky that the premise for Hostel means we can overlook plot/acting/direction because the gore is the star, the violence the hero. As long as its *there* it works. -
The Descent has moments of gore, but the difference between the violence and gore in the descent and Hostel is that the violence in Hostel is the whole raison d'etre of the film.
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I can honestly say that the reason I went to see Hostel was not for the gore. If you go back to Harrys review of Hostel, that's the reason I went to see it. And you know what, the guy was spot on.
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Without the violence/ gore Hostel has no reason for existing. harry's review is an a pology for the film. If you honestly think there is a shred of credibility in the claim that "A lot of what happens in this film plays by the classic rules of Film Noir" then you are deluded.
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I don't believe that's true, and I also don't think the film is as gory as many people make out.
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Look for other signs of a horror movie- they are all absent, and it committs the absolute un-fucking-forgivable sin (for any movie) of failing to make me care what happened to any of the characters. They weren't properly developed, they weren't interesting, they were just poorly drawn charicatures of boorish morons abroad. A truly, truly, awful film.
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"the premise for Hostel means we can overlook plot/acting/direction because the gore is the star, the violence the hero. As long as its *there* it works."Absolutely spot on.
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Thanks.
Goddamned i hate Eli Roth. It annoys me that i enjoyed both Hostels. What can i say? i like gore.
Heres my plot for Hostel 3.
3 children go to Serbia with school for a trip. They do their homework and go to bed early. Ideally they should have no more than 4 minutes of screen time before someone starts creeping them out. In this time, these 7 years old should mug a local pensioner and rape her dead mouth. We now have our typical Roth hero. Cut to a shot of their chocolate milk getting spiked by a fit Serbian substitute teacher. Cut to one of the kids tied up in a dungeon, when Bill Gates comes out and deficates in his mouth. He then brings out a trapeeze artist to do a triple backflip and dive literally all the way into the boys shit filled mouth, and the boy burst from the inside as the trapeeze artists emerges from the inside (imagain the end of Braindead/DeadAlive). I dont have an idea for the 2nd death yet. Ill make that up when i get on set. The 3rd and final child will be made to suck off an American paedo millionaire who has surgically had his dick replaced with a swan (we were shown this earlier in detail). The child bites SwanDicks dick off and he bleeds to death. Child slits own throat and resurrects ala Jesus (the South Park fictional character) -
unlike Roth's psuedo morality.Me- i hated both Hostel's with a vengeance. I only saw the second one because I kept hearing how much better than the first one it is.
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sounds suspiciously to me you're a closet Roth fan! you saw both films! at least I had the sense to avoid Rob Zombies films like the plague after I saw 1,000 Corpses
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House of a 1,000 Corpses is absolutely terrible. The Devils Rejects is a modern masterpiece, as like Hostel 2 we are given the 'bad guys' point of view, in TDR roles are completely reversed as the cops become the stalkers and the murderers become the helpless victims. You really do root for them to win. You dont root for the hero in Hostel or Hostel 2. But u were ok with the original Hostel.
You my friend are a hypocrite.
You cannot write off one piece of art on the merits of something else. Ive already said i hate Eli Roth but i like Hostel and will continue watching his work (even if its just to rip it), and as for Rob Zombie all i can say is he learnt from his mistakes with House.
Do you even like horror films because it seems to me that you know fuck all -
sorry for not towing the party line. oh and art & Rob Zombie don't go in the same sentence my friend.
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/art thats a definition of the word 'Art'. and i dont know what "im not towing the party line" means. i used reason and logic - very few opinions, where as you have described a film in completely the wrong mannor, possibly putting off potential viewers. The point of this little chat is that you know shit about horror and that you are fickle enough to look at pieces of work and be influenced by other things and therefore biased. therefore you are in no position to comment on the merits of horror films.
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All totally sucked. I guess he must have some kinda kickass coke and weed connections though, otherwise, why would QT keep producing his godawful shit movies?
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Sounds exactly like the scene from "8mm."
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tell me this does anyone else think that rob zombie's Halloween us going to be worse then 1000 corpses
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Well apparently his second film was a masterpiece (or so our resident horror film expert says), so we are in safe hands.
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"yeah! i cant argue my point so ill just make a sly comment a day later" and no, Halloween will not be worse than House, because i could shit a film reel better than that. Literally shit it. The Devils Rejects is fresh and original, and is impeccably made. You are such an asshold Buffalo - stop referring to me and my threads if u cant even fucking explain yourself. idiot.
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Well you came back to your little thread to see if I had made a reply to your last arrogant post. Why take the time out to reply to a bit of sarcasm from idiots like me anyway…..unless you’re not all that convinced about your own convictions and obvious huge knowledge of the horror genre. Jesus guys like you really give me a fucking laff. I’ll be keeping an eye out for your handle on the other talkbacks for some humour to lighten up my day
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yeah, it was arrogant because i could be, i backed up what i said, and because the things i say are funny. also, whats wrong with checking back on a talkback about films im actually interested in seeing? sure youre reply was here and your bullshit infuriated me in its ignorants - i was compelled to insult an easy target what can i say? im a bully. as for asking if im not be convinced by my own arguments when iv flamed you with such confidence, i truely dont know what to say. sounds like the last feeble attempts of a beaten man to sound credible. thanks for pointing out that iv a huge knowledge of the horror genre btw - i do take pride in my knowledge in it since my main essay for my film studies degree this year was to discuss the evolution of genre, with specific reference to horror. Nice to see my research doesnt fall on deaf ears. by the way, got anything constructive to say yet or you just going to point out that iv mentioned that im doing a film degree? Go on, iv given you some ammo - fire away, call me a namedropper or whatever the fuck you want to call it. or maybe, just *MAYBE*.... you might try and give me one valid point for any of the discussion we are having ie. the merits of Neil Marshall, Rob Zombie and Eli Roth, and not simply to say they suck. stop crying that you dont know anything about films. as for "I’ll be keeping an eye out for your handle on the other talkbacks for some humour to lighten up my day", thats one of 2 things, either your serious, or youre trying to insult me. i hope its the former, since you might as well have told me that your dad is bigger than my dad its so weak. fuck it, i think i know what the deal there was. you love me. bummer. im glad my insightful wit can help with the extremities of your pitiful existence. much love kisses and hugs. mwah xx ps. as for the lengrh of this - i dont give a fuck. i enjoy telling idiots why they are retarded - i wish i could get paid for it.
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Then how come you can’t come up with a coherent argument as to why Zombie is a better filmmaker then Roth? You know the internet is a great place for anonymity and lies. I think you’re just a hot headed geek who can’t stand the fact that somebody who visits AICN actually has a bit of respect for Eli Roth as a director. Right, I’m off to finish the adaptation of my new crime novel that Tom Cruise has optioned as his next starring vehicle. Have a good day sir.
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ha! u used the ammo i gave you. so much for checking back to see if id insulted ya eh? And i have given coherent arguments as to Zombie against Roth, being that Eli is a special effects artist and thats it, and Zombie actually takes time to build his characters. I know iv not seen Halloween yet but from the reviews on this site at least it seem slike AGAIN that the characters are the focal point - not the gore. yes, i am a hotheaded geek - i can admit it. i like to insult people that try to argue their points with "ha! you suck!" and i like the fact i know alot about films and other cool geeky shit. Iv got an xbox - wanna insult that? or how about the fact i reckon iv seen the Evil Dead over 100 times since i was a kid. i dont give a fuck that im a geek. as for not standing the fact someone respects someone - thats downright ignorant in itself. What i cant stand is that you cant back up ANYTHING YOUVE FUCKING SAID AT ALL. not one thing i have seen u write has any proof or motivation behind it at all. as for getting Tom Cruise on board - good choice and well done! oh, since you took a great interest in my chosen degree, heres an exert from that genre essay: ‘While in some periods genres play a predictable formulative role, at other points they are mashed, twisted and reshaped into unrecognisably new forms’ (Rick Altman). Discuss with reference to two films in one particular genre.Genre is a class or category of artistic endeavour having a particular form, content or technique. In the early days of cinema, it was much easier for us to categorise a film in this way. Barry Keith Grant argued that genre movies were commercial feature films that used repetition and variation to ‘tell familiar stories with familiar characters in familiar situations.’ As the cinema industry has evolved however, so have the ‘classic’ ways in which we group films into genres. We can still look at modern films and broadly place them into wide genres, but one person’s opinion on the genre of a certain film could completely contrast another persons. Stephen Neale claimed that conventional definitions of genre are often narrow and restrictive. This essay will attempt to examine how genre has become more complicated to categorise, with specific reference to horror films Zombie Flesh Eaters (Dir. Lucio Fulci, 1979) and The Evil Dead Trilogy (Dir. Sam Raimi, 1981-1991). Now fuck off arsehole, because i obviously know more of what im talking about than you do.
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Listen you’re obviously intelligent enough to find the above text about genre cinema on the internet, and intelligent enough to use copy and paste. I respect that intelligence, I really do. If you refrained from using cuss words I would almost grow to respect you. I think I will call a halt to this little tete a tete and go rent a Rob Zombie movie, you have made me see the light.
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Just do fuck off.
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