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Why So Serious?? Because There's A DARK KNIGHT Teaser Online!!

Merrick here...
Earlier today, Moriarty posted THIS PIECE about a site called Why So Serious? It was quickly assumed that the site was part of THE DARK KNIGHT's viral marketing campaign, which began a while back with the "I Believe In Harvey Dent" sites that ultimately revealed our first true look at Ledger as The Joker. Turns out, Why So Serious has its own secrets to hide...


This is a slow damn download, by the way. This is a slicker, officialer version of the clumsily filmed teaser that's recently been making the rounds on YouTube. And, of course, here's a new picture of Joker being adorable and funny...

He reminds me of one of my ex-girlfriends. At least life is interesting...

Readers Talkback
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  • July 27, 2007, 3:56 p.m. CST


    by SpencerTrilby

    I'm a man of my word!!!

  • July 27, 2007, 3:57 p.m. CST


    by Cpt. Arnoldo


  • July 27, 2007, 3:57 p.m. CST

    youtube link - crystal clear version

    by SpencerTrilby

  • July 27, 2007, 3:59 p.m. CST


    by 7pointedstar

    Can no one find a Goddamned Small one? Even the Medium one is too much for my little 'puter. How about a non-High Res version? Anyone?

  • July 27, 2007, 4 p.m. CST

    Sorry Arnoldo

    by SpencerTrilby

    you're retrograded to SECOND Lieutenant.

  • July 27, 2007, 4 p.m. CST

    thanks spencer

    by occula

    the top link shut down my firefox, but the youtube was hunky-dory. heath ledger gives me the tingles!

  • July 27, 2007, 4:02 p.m. CST

    who are you kidding Merrick?

    by Joey Jojo

    we all know you've never had a girlfriend

  • July 27, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Joey, have you not heard baout AICN?

    by Massawyrm 1

    Dude. As big of dorks, geeks and dweebs as we are - just about all of us have some kind of hotness. Merrick included.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:06 p.m. CST

    you're welcome, occula

    by SpencerTrilby

    Still waiting for some nice soul to upload Iron Man's teaser, though. That one has REAL images in it, I heard. <p> Back to topic, I hate it when they put together shitty CGI logo with music and brand it as "teaser". But Nolan managed to select the right bits of dialogues to pump me up. Bale sounds awesome as usual, Caine too, and Ledger's line is fantastic. CANNOT WAIT.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:06 p.m. CST

    obscure ref. on what ledger sounds like

    by BizarroJerry

    I swear, Heath's Joker voice sounds like Vincent Donofrio's "Bug in a man suit" character from Men in Black. Listen again. You know it to be true!

  • July 27, 2007, 4:09 p.m. CST


    by tehgreekhammer

    If I want to see Jake Gyllenhall down on all four with a mouthful of Ledger then why cant I see it? <p> Lookin good man, lookin real good.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Really That's It?

    by dancinggopher01

    C'mon Nolan! Give us something to talk about besides a freaking symbol!

  • July 27, 2007, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Any time, Mr Mcpoops

    by SpencerTrilby

    but the real hero of the day is Silo360, the YT uploader. I'm just the messenger.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Thanks For Crashing My Firefox!

    by topaz4206


  • July 27, 2007, 4:18 p.m. CST




  • July 27, 2007, 4:18 p.m. CST

    yeah, avoid at all costs the official site

    by SpencerTrilby

    if using FireFox. Red Ring of Death ahead.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Or you could just click the miniature TV screen

    by King_Knut

    on, to the right of "Empty Handed!"

  • July 27, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    HD links

    by Jeebs

    sorry no regular sizes yet :(

  • July 27, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    slowest download ever

    by gride9000

    I cracked #7, went to lunchy-poo then started downloading some 720p shit for 3 hours....

  • July 27, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Everyone has seen the new picure of the joker right?

    by eric haislar

    where he has a knife to rachels throat?

  • July 27, 2007, 4:25 p.m. CST

    I bet the rest of the panels are pissed

    by troutpencil

    That The Dark Knight stole all their thunder

  • July 27, 2007, 4:29 p.m. CST

    "See you in December"

    by gatorbat444

    to those that wanted more don't forget there was a viral campaign a while back that left us a message that said the joker would see us in december. I bet we would get a full trailer till then. I really liked this one, it did its job of teasing me and making me want to see more. I also like Ledger's voice from the small sound bite we get to hear of him.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:32 p.m. CST

    See you in december!!!

    by eric haislar

    read the police report on the page with the trailer it says the body of the joker was found with a card that read see you in December.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Grotesque-looking Joker

    by Yack Backer

    I'm not sold on the look, but let's see if he's an interesting derivation of the comic book character.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:33 p.m. CST

    RE: I bet the rest of the panels are pissed

    by cookepuss

    I don't know....<p> <p> I heard that the Iron Man panel kicked all sorts of ass.<p> <p> I'm not buying this new Joker makeup though. I'd sooner take Britney Spears as Batshit Girl.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    I actually like this iteration of the Joker.

    by PirateEmery

    It's a new gritty/realistic look at this clown. And from the voice, he sounds to be the perfect combination of Jack Nicholson and Mark Hamill.<p> The teaser worked: I'm excited.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:35 p.m. CST

    I wanna see a homerun

    by McClane_Corleone

    I wanna see Jake Gyllenhall on all fours getting his salad tossed by Heath Ledger.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Yeah, please WB don't screw up the hype like Sony did

    by SpencerTrilby

    with SM3 - or Fox with Live Free; showing it all in the trailers is such a lame suit idea, from people not confident enough in the material... Of course delivering sub-par sequels was the cherry on the piss cake. <p> But 4 months between a cryptic teaser and a real trailer is too much. I'd rather have a "see you in Halloween" campaign. December seems so far away, shit!

  • July 27, 2007, 4:36 p.m. CST

    The laugh was great.....

    by movieman742

    the way he delivered the dialog on the other hand was iffy. I'm not sold yet.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:41 p.m. CST


    by torpor_haze

    Yeah, the lines seemed off, but I thing what they did they put couple of lines together from different parts of dialogue.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:42 p.m. CST


    by torpor_haze

    My thing had nothing to do with it.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Yeah. The dialog delivery was

    by cookepuss

    way too much like Jack Nicholson - who made an awful Joker imo. If Ledger's gonna do it then he better play up the crazy angle. A little more Brad Pitt in 12 Monkeys and a little less Caesar Romero.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:44 p.m. CST

    I think

    by McClane_Corleone

    If Alfred's description of the Joker is at all an accurate description of the way they portray The Joker, well then you've got the greatest super hero movie ever made on your hands.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Did everyone call this number?

    by eric haislar

    800-395-9646 if not do it pretty cool.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:45 p.m. CST

    The Youtube Fakes are much better

    by Jugdish

    sorry but its true

  • July 27, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Hint of Jack Nicholson

    by Maximus Prime

    In the jokers voice..I like it...

  • July 27, 2007, 4:48 p.m. CST

    See rsanta74...

    by Wiley Deuce

    ...I didn't get the Nicholson vibe from the delivery of his lines. He sounded off, like someone who really was a bit deranged. Maybe Bats fucks him up and then he goes coo coo.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Chub inspiring pic.

    by Stuntcock Mike

    Next year is going to kill this years garbage. Can't wait for Bourne though.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:52 p.m. CST


    by mefrog

    Fuckfuckfuck. IMSOTHERE.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:54 p.m. CST

    I like this version of the Joker

    by Snookeroo

    He looks like a real psycho -- they've done a good job on making his motivations believable; maybe to a nut job the horrific damage to his face might be taken as some sort of twisted grin. I like the idea that he covers himself in face paint, rather than actually having bleached white skin.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:55 p.m. CST

    He sounded like....

    by movieman742

    Richard Dreyfuss

  • July 27, 2007, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Is he threatening that girl with a potato peeler?

    by Snookeroo

    Just askin'.

  • July 27, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Best Live Action Batman movie EVER

    by mrjoker

    I think Batman Mask of the Phantasm is the overall best Batman movie ever. Dark Knight is shaping up to be the best live action version. I am loving this direction on this Joker. Nolan knows what he is doing, this dark sinister twisted Joker is perfect for the BatmanBegins-verse. I have been watching the trailer all day, I love the dialog with Alfred. The Joker soundbite has me screaming for more. The Viral campaign is appropriate, because it is characteristic of the Joker. He is a man who loves publicity.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Making Joker relevant to today

    by RustyBedsprings

    I would like to see Nolan use the Joker as the equivalent of the insurgent terrorists in Iraq. Batman is like the US, trying to impose order, and the Joker is fucking shit up all over the place. Kind of goes along with Caine's dialogue in the teaser--"Some men just want to watch the world burn" indeed. "Batman Begins" was a nice comment on using FEAR as a weapon, and I hope TDK continues the trend.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:03 p.m. CST

    So I Gues I Have To Be The One To Say It

    by spidermanfreak20

    Heath Ledger is not the Joker. This teaser sucked ass and yes every fanmade Youtube teaser was better than this shit. The voice or lack there of is irrelevant. Heath Ledger looks like an emo kid trying to be the Joker. I don't buy for a second he is a true nemesis of the The Dark Knight. They should have cast Doctor Who Christopher Eccleston instead we get the Crow.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:04 p.m. CST

    This Joker might work

    by EjkoUSC

    I think if Jokers scars are self-inflicted then that would really go to reinforce what a nut he is. I like the idea that he goes out of his way to paint himself up. What kind of freak... We are too conditioned to having villains who come from some sort of tragic accideent. The Jokers deformaties done TO him. Horse shit. Batman has nothing to do with why the Joker is the way he is. No cutesy "I made you/you made me" sentiments. The Joker is a nut and Batman will have to figure out why and how to stop such uncomprosimising lunacy. My only problem is the casting of Heath Ledger. Not sure he is right. I'd like to have seen Crispin Glover. And I hate Maggie Gyllenhall. But I hate Katie Homes more. More-so I hate the character Rachel Dawes (yawn). I say new Batman bitch in every movie Indy jones style

  • July 27, 2007, 5:07 p.m. CST

    damn big file

    by kafka07

    damn, could barely watch the thing. very choppy. But sounds very awesome! Ledger's got a good Joker laugh. Does anyone have a direct link to the same teaser on YouTube?

  • July 27, 2007, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Why are people complaining about the download speed?

    by C Legion

    I don't have a particularly fast connection (4mb) but it downloaded in 2 minutes for me, I just right clicked the link and saved it. As for the teaser, well, it's a tease, and a very early one at that, don't expect too much too soon.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:13 p.m. CST

    yes, it would have been estatic to have Crispen Glover

    by future help

    as the Joker. i would of done backflips.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:19 p.m. CST


    by BigDude

    Why did they even bother? I wanted to see the batman logo get "sprayed" then broken? Not really. They took the time to load the audio into the trailer, why not the fucking video? BAH!!!!! That sucked.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:22 p.m. CST

    self-inflicted facial scars?

    by kafka07

    Where did folks hear this? I thought the scarring might be be from an encounter with Batman. Guess we'll find out.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:22 p.m. CST


    by jfp2007

    Why don't you go fuck yourself? This version of Joker looks exactly like the very first version of Joker. He frowned and had black circles around his eyes. The Animated Series version of the Joker also had black circles around his eyes, and most people consider that the definitive non-comic interpretation. Most Joker versions and/or toys have some sort of dark circles around his eyes. It's part of the character and always has been.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:23 p.m. CST

    brobdingnag 2

    by jfp2007

    And the suit isn't rubber. It's part rubber and contains fabric this go round ,as well as full head turning capabilities. The cape always contains some new, mystery surprises. Again, go fuck yourself.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Brad Pitt's crazy WAS over the top

    by Punch Man

    Because it was a Terry Gilliam film.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:24 p.m. CST


    by jfp2007

    The self-inflicted facial scarring is a modern Joker comic book thing. He cut his smile in recent months.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:25 p.m. CST


    by jfp2007

    There are versions of Joker, including one of the most critically acclaimed stories called Arkham Asylum, where Joker applies makeup to himself. He dies his hair green and his lips are not naturally red.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST

    "Fuck this movie" ?

    by LarryLuv37

    Those same assclowns will probably say Ironman was better after TDK and The Joker raise the bar in the hero movie genre. The rest of us with brains in our heads and not in our lil packages know that this movie WILL be great. And where the christ is everyone getting "Emo Joker" from? Eat it, he'll kill you.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:29 p.m. CST

    The Joker is Canadian?

    by Sci_Fi_Wasabe

    That's what I though when I first some saw some of the long distance spy shot's of the makeup (which makes his face look bisected). Canadian a la South Park. Makeup's not working for me, but I won't say is sucks until I see it in the theater. I felt the same about the Begins batsuit (hated it when the first pix came out) and seeing on the big screen didn't change my opinion. Didn't mean the movie wasn't awesome (the stuff about Bruce's dad being responsible for his own death was gold), but I kind of wish we could get Nolan's storytelling ability with a dash of Burton's style. Nolan's insistence on "realism" is kind of silly in a movie about a guy in a batsuit. If the story is compelling, the audience will go along as long as you don't get too crazy and have him throwing out flying cellophane batsymbols at the bad guys. Reminds me of when I was a kid and went to see the 70's King Kong movie. After the movie, my dad (in the military) was complaining that the gun mounts weren't right for the helicopters or something. But he bought the 40 foot monkey.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:30 p.m. CST

    this is no emo-Joker

    by kafka07

    They're basing this Joker on the original psycho serial killer Joker. This is not naughty Joker who lip-synchs to Jared Leto. It's insane purple weirdo Joker who murders people because they're there, and the last thing they see is his mutilated smile.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:31 p.m. CST

    I really like

    by Defrost

    How no one really knows how these characters will be come out yet already hate the movie. At least give it time. Personally, I thought all the news coming out of Superman Returns was god awful, but kept my mouth shut until I saw it. The fact the movie was worse than I could have feared is irrelevent to the story by the way. What a piece of shit movie that was.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:34 p.m. CST


    by Kragmose

    That teaser was kinda meh! It slipped, dont shoot me!

  • July 27, 2007, 5:37 p.m. CST

    jesus christ merrick, did

    by TenderBranson47

    jesus christ merrick, did you have to make it the biggest fuckin copy. i cant even move that thing.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST

    emo Joker

    by Wiley Deuce

    How exactly is the Joker emo? He doesn't have black bangs, wear black clothes and converse sneakers (I hope to shit he doesn't say,"Now dig this!")

  • July 27, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST

    Waste of time

    by AlwaysThere

    Nothing to see here.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Where's the Joker?

    by JackPumpkinhead

    I see a painted idiot with pink face, hideously dirty hair and lipstick smeared over mutilated cheeks. That's Marilyn Moronson, or whatever the thing's name is. Where's the Joker?

  • July 27, 2007, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Christ, dumbasses, this movie is a year away...

    by jfp2007

    ..stop bitching about a teaser that shows no footage based on a movie that has barely been made. Lots of dickheads with loud mouths and overly opinionated personalities around here.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:43 p.m. CST

    I'm sick of this...

    by cornponious

    Is it even remotely possible to have trailers that are not in HD?? Not EVERYBODY can play HD video on their computers. I play HD and it's choppy as hell. A normal trailer, pleaze.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:45 p.m. CST

    Ennis should be nicer to Jack's sister

    by CherryValance

    I like the pic. Nice gloves.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:50 p.m. CST

    Joker Is Emo

    by spidermanfreak20

    Because it literally looks like when he decided to become the Clown Prince he went to Wal-Mart and bought a Clown Make Up kit. Heath doesn't have the face for this and he's more Buffalo Bill than Joker. I know he is a member of the Red Hood gang but there's no reason to slash the sides of his mouth and if he is at least let it look as cool as Pan's Labyrinth when the Capitan got his mouth cut. Even in the photo it looks more like Herpes on his lip from sucking Sum 41 dick all day. I don't see why Christopher Eccleston couldn't be cast especially after those fake photos of him were done. Keep in mind ZERO work was done on Eccleston's face and he looks perfect as the Joker without facial scarring. EXHIBIT A exhibit b That my friends is THE JOKER. Seeing Heath Ledger as Joker is like seeing the Spider-Man suit Alex Ross designed. The black and red one. Sure you could have used it but the perfect suit was made by James Acheson. I feel Heath Ledger as Joker is like using an Alex Ross suit fro the Spider-Man movies. A better suit is right around the corner and his name is Doctor Who (yes I'm aware Tennant is the new Who and he's fucking awesome)

  • July 27, 2007, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Finally a teaser that really just gives us a tease

    by LeviDTinker

    Do none of you realize what a teaser is suppose to be.<br> this teaser did what it was suppose to it gave the audience <br> a tease of whats to come.<br> it was really clever to just have us listen to bruce and alfreds voice over while slowly revealing the bat signal <br> and then the joker card <br> it really sets up what has been going on with gotham the last few years with out resorting to quick cut editing eye candy.<br> to many teasers reveal way to much to soon. <br> this teaser has me even more excited to see the movie now. <br> it was going to be really hard to top batman begins,<br> but there is a really good chance the dark knight will.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Eccleston Is Joker

    by spidermanfreak20

    EXHIBIT A EXHIBIT B Please recast Mr.Nolan!

  • July 27, 2007, 5:53 p.m. CST


    by iwontwin

    Seriously, they just got the batsuit right in my opinion, now they have joker that looks like a mess. The Joker was always well dressed in purple clothes, and meticulous clown makeup. This Joker looks like a hobo ICP member.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:54 p.m. CST


    by jfp2007

    He sounds nothing like Nicholson. Clean out your ears.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:54 p.m. CST


    by Dangerousapple

    you all should be extremely happy to get a teaser like this 1 year shy of release. I don't get it. A picture of Harrison Ford sitting in a chair on set gets all kinds of "OMG I just came so hard all over my keyboard" type reactions on the talkbacks (by the way - ewwww). This is way cooler. This gives you a taste of the mood and actually features dialogue. Speaking of which, have you listened to this thing? "Some men can't be reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn" "Starting tonight people will die. I'm a man of my word" - please explain how that's NOT cool?

  • July 27, 2007, 5:57 p.m. CST

    This teaser has been hyped beyond belief

    by AlwaysThere

    Go ahead and sue me for expecting something exciting.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Pretty fucking cool

    by DrPeterVenkman

    For those of you who remember how vehemently I fought against TINO because of my love of Transformers (still haven't seen it, Fuck you, Bay), I'm an even bigger Batman fan. And I kinda like what they're doing here. The new look Joker will work if - and only if - they make him a brutal, psychotic murderer. I want to feel uncomfortable by the things that he does on screen. Only then, will I be able to buy Ledger in this role.<p> So please don't water this one down to sell more toys. Give us what we need!

  • July 27, 2007, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Damn, that guy in Spidermanfreak's pictures...

    by JackPumpkinhead

    Whoever and wherever it's from, that's an amazing Joker. The Joker I want to see. I.e. the actual Joker rather than a moron that finds a "My First Paint Set" box, smears its contents randomly all over himself and jabs his cheeks with the brush in the process.

  • July 27, 2007, 5:59 p.m. CST

    There should be a law against teasing for a movie

    by Kragmose

    1 fucking year ahead of time.

  • July 27, 2007, 6 p.m. CST


    by DrPeterVenkman

    I do hope that Mutemath can re-do the batman theme song from the 60's show!

  • July 27, 2007, 6 p.m. CST


    by iwontwin


  • July 27, 2007, 6:01 p.m. CST

    c'mon response and the motive of the Joker

    by spidermanfreak20

    He sounds like Michael Keaton when he says I'm a man of my word. Being over the top for the sake of being isn't a performance. The Joker was never a MANIAC. In the comic Batman and Spider-man Joker told Carnage considers himself "The Orson Welles of crime." He says to Carnage "Anyone can go around slaughtering people. But wheres the fun in that." Like Bullseye The Joker would rather kill you with a peanut he made you swallow than beat you to death with one. Meaning when he pulls a crime people talk about it. How exactly does stabbing someone to death like say a Rachel Dawes equate to anything other than Joker being just another stereotypical killer. The Joker isn't Michael Myers. The way it's shaping up to be he's Beetlejuice. I'd rather he be more Tim Curry in Rocky Horror Picture Show.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:07 p.m. CST


    by DrPeterVenkman

    You make a good point so I'll amend my previous comment. I want to see a big, disturbing bodycount on screen, but it doesn't necessarily have to be done in a brutal "Michael Myers" way. <p> One of the best things about the Joker is that he causes a high level of tension. Batman wants - no, NEEDS - to get to him before something else horrific happens again. If they can build and maintain that tension, then this movie will be a success.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:08 p.m. CST

    More Ledger Bashing and Eccleston loving

    by spidermanfreak20

    Ledger is a fine actor but he's no Joker. I want someone who can go toe to toe with Bale on the intelligence level. if any of you ever saw Doctor Who Series 1 in 2005 all you need to do is watch the episode BOOM TOWN. That episode will totally sell you on the intelligence Eccleston can bring to the character Joker as he sits across from Blaine and she continually tries to dupe him he gets the better of her always. Imagine a scene like Heat where Batman and Joker sit across from one another like Pacino and Deniro. Can you honestly tell me Heath Ledger would match toe for toe with Christian Bale? He looks like a punk not a nemesis.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:11 p.m. CST


    by Lerkst

    Every deserves to choose for themselves...but with TDK, consider these factors; Batman Begins, The Prestige. The evidence for this film to exceed, and shatter expectations cannot be ignored.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:14 p.m. CST

    How many clowns does it take to get a good laugh?

    by Clonetrooper

    401. It's an inside joke, and if you don't like it, Button it.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:16 p.m. CST


    by pipergates


  • July 27, 2007, 6:18 p.m. CST

    Further More. On the issue of Pitt and 12 Monkeys

    by spidermanfreak20

    You guys keep talking about how you don't want a cartoon Joker. You want a realistic portrayal of a maniac. Then you bring up Brad Pitt's portrayal in 12 Monkeys which pales in comparison to the greatest performance of a psycho Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet. The only way Ledger could truly differentiate himself as a sociapathic killer is if he played it more like Frank Booth from Blue Velvet. Dennis Hopper's "Daddy wants to fuck." Could you imagine if Joker kidnapped Comissioner Gordon and used Rachel Dawes for sex to free her father? That my friends is a disturbing Joker. And a much better one than 'SLAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE.' But since this film is going to be a bullshit PG-13 Joker wont go that DARK. Even though th film is called The Dark Knight. Nolans worrying about bullshit IMAX and not nailing the Joker when we know the Joker is the greatest of all Batman's enemies. If it came down to one villain everyone always picks the Joker as the one they want to see. Just like everyone picks Vader with Star Wars. Sure you can cast someone else as Marlon Brando for the Godfather but it's not the Godfather anymore. The actor and character are one in the same. I can see Ledger as easily replaced as the Joker as Dawes was.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Was Alfred speaking of the Joker?

    by dihay

    "If Alfred's description of the Joker is at all an accurate description of the way they portray The Joker" What makes one think that Alfred was speaking of the Joker? My initial feeling was that he was possibly referring to Harvey Dent. It would make more sense that people would tend to follow Dent's character into the fire before finding out that he was nothing but "two-faced".

  • July 27, 2007, 6:20 p.m. CST

    I meant to say Batgirl

    by spidermanfreak20

    My mistake. I said Rachel Dawes instead of Barbara Gordon.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:22 p.m. CST

    High res mirror here

    by LittleDudes

  • July 27, 2007, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Frank Booth

    by DancesWithWerewolves

    Good call.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:26 p.m. CST

    I'm a man of my word...

    by M0riarty


  • July 27, 2007, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Why bother with high definition?

    by Hugh G Rekshun's all fucking dialogue. Yeah, lets make an HD version of a mostly BLACK FUCKING SCREEN. WORST. TEASER. OF. ALL. TIME.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:29 p.m. CST

    Relationhip between Batman and Joker

    by spidermanfreak20

    Is that yes Batman did make the Joker when he pushed him into the chemicals. But the Joker is much more than a killer he's an intelligent one. Meticulous and sloppy. Take away Joker's laughing gas and he will still find ways to kill people beyond the average stab them to death. I don't want to say anymore on the subject because I have my own ideas of murders and portrayal of Joker I'd like to put in a feature some day but from what I see there's just nothing to the Joker beyond what people have already portrayed previously. Nolan knows he's The Joker. So he's putting him in a movie. In the teaser it seems all the gangs align with Joker? Do you ever see the gangs in South Central align themselves with a Dahmer or Manson? No because gangs aren't killers. Gangs are families. DUH! Martin Scorsese understands gang lifestyle. They don't kill because they want to. They kill because there is no other choice. Someone will rat on them or someone has screwed up their business (money) or someone is trying to take over their turf. Like Mr.White said about Mr.Blonde. Professionals don't work with psychopaths because there is no telling what those sick assholes will do next.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Holy shit...

    by mefrog

    Calm down. This has been addressed, but people are flipping out still. It's a fucking teaser one year shy of release. Yeah, I'd be flipping out if this is what we got in DECEMBER but seeing as how we're promised to get a damn good look at the Joker then, I don't see why everyone has to be freaking. And if ya'll are complaining so much about the HD download, go onto fucking youtube. Somebody already posted a damn good quality version.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Brokeback Joker

    by James Westfall

    As a longtime Joker fan I continue to be underwhelmed with this... this... whatever the Hell this is that Nolan's inflicting on us. Lipstick Joker... Batguns on a Bat'pod' or whatever that motorcycle thing is... blech. All this proves that Goyer was what kept the last movie grounded. With him AWOL it's all gone Brokeback.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Man of My Word

    by spidermanfreak20

    It seems Joker might have been mocking Batman when he says it because the way its pronounced sounds like Batman might have said it to Joker and Joker repeated it laughing afterwards.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:41 p.m. CST


    by icen9ne

    spideyfreak, you're on to something sir. but better yet, harvey dent. it makes more sense -- with harvey's campaign -- to make to mock harvey who wants to rid Gotham of the mob.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:42 p.m. CST


    by maluquiro

    it's someone who the mob hired to be a threat to batman, but he went out of control. i think they're talking about the joker but who knows.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Hint of Nicholson in the laugh

    by MrJJonz

    and that is not a good thing. Although I thought about the only interesting thing about this Batman film would be Heath Ledgers casting as it seemed an odd choice to me.<P>The first wasn't good and I'm not sure that this will improve any but odd casting like Ledger keeps me interested

  • July 27, 2007, 6:47 p.m. CST

    his skin is bleached

    by torontoxic

    his has makeup on to make it look otherwise. and he has people all over town done up to look like him. within the teaser site today there was a police report to that effect. So calm down.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Goodfellas reminds us: mafia don't like clowns.

    by icen9ne

    one thing to think about spideyfreak tho... mobs also don't have a guy who dons a batsuit scaring the living shit out of them. the mob is scared of losing their empire in this story. in the same fashion that batman has become a symbol (reference Batman Begins). I think they see the Joker doing all these crimes, and really creating fear in people, so they turn to him as their "symbol" in the same way Batman is a symbol for justice

  • July 27, 2007, 6:50 p.m. CST

    He is definately...

    by AidanJames

    mocking Aaron Eckhart's voice in that... 'teaser' indeed. AMAZING laugh though. I love Heath's Joker more and more with each little scrap of information that makes it's way public.

  • July 27, 2007, 6:53 p.m. CST


    by Deus Vult

    In response to your post about all of AICN having some kind of "hotness" I propose we set up a contest whereby we do a 1-to-1 "hot or not" style side by side comparison of AICN staff's wives, girlfriends, fiances, or whatever the case may be against registered users counterparts. What do you think? Not sure about the prize. But I'm prepared to start thinking of ideas...

  • July 27, 2007, 6:56 p.m. CST

    Could win some of Deus wife's DVD's

    by MrJJonz

    and spare him some of the viewings<P>How are you hanging Deus?

  • July 27, 2007, 6:56 p.m. CST

    Funny how? Like I'm a clown? Like I amuse you?

    by lost.rules

    Oh yeah! Call that 800 number. It's hilarious, or perhaps frightening. "I don't get."

  • July 27, 2007, 6:57 p.m. CST


    by Deus Vult

    That all registered users who are interested in the contest must submit a rated PG or less photo of their respective counterpart and AICN staff will do the same. Then readers will vote and from there the highest rated will fold into a series of matches against AICN staff's female photos until there is only one.<p>now if a reader wins well I think they should win the ability for their posts to show up with the black highlight the AICN gets, and this should be available to them so long as they are never banned or suspended. <p>Of course if an AICN staff member wins they get...a free enchilada plate at Baby Acapulco's on Harry. Hey is that place still open in Austin? their margaritas used to make my face go numb. stupid cheap tequila gets us crackers every time!

  • July 27, 2007, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Call this # 1-800-395-9646

    by FilmCritic3000

    Creepy shit...This # was apparently posted at Comic Con

  • July 27, 2007, 6:59 p.m. CST

    purple...i looooooove purple!!!

    by the_shogun_gunslinger

    glad to see Nolan still has the joker in his purple duds...looks like he paints his face white tho...oh well...still looks like a psychopath. cant wait for this shit.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:03 p.m. CST

    How many clowns does it take to get a good laugh?

    by lost.rules

    401. I don't get it. These don't sound funny.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:04 p.m. CST

    One final joke.What's the last thing I'll ever say?

    by lost.rules


  • July 27, 2007, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Remember, YOU are my number one GUY!!!!

    by Doc_Strange

    That still reminds me of that scene in Burton's Batman.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Wow you guys are hostile

    by Lovecraftfan

    So everybody hates the movie right?

  • July 27, 2007, 7:17 p.m. CST

    The scarring looks too clean

    by ThePilgrim

    therefore it looks fake. The inner edges of his mouth atleast in th enew teaser pick are perfectly retained. Scaring of this sort doest allow that. I got bit in my face nostril to lip by a dog. someone just didnt do the homework. and if it's self inflicted which isn't known. then surely he would stick it up and it would look way more kelatiodial than this gelatine aplliance looks. I'm rather sad that he wears makeup. I'd rather his skin pigmentation got screwed. Maybe not from the accident but from his own efforts to peel the bad skin away using other chemicals. And his voice does sound liek Richard Dryfus.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:19 p.m. CST

    "someone they didnt understand"

    by the_shogun_gunslinger

    sigh...alfred is NOT refering to harvey dent guys...he is telling bruce HE crossed the line first by becoming batman and now the MOB has retaliated by working with the joker out of desperation. jesus, all the speculation on this site and its never fucking right.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Hungry for Chef Boy-Ar-Dee...?

    by Immortal_Fish

    Ledger certainly is. Or was.<P>TOO PINK!! Not orange enough.<P>You people can't be excited about this drek. Can you? The fake image of the scarred face was way better than this and even that sucked beyond the pale. Enjoy your 'realism' for what it is worth. Same as the first flick, I'll pass.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Shogun . . I thought he was referring to the mob

    by MrJJonz

    using a giant lion.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:26 p.m. CST


    by the_shogun_gunslinger


  • July 27, 2007, 7:30 p.m. CST

    The Alfred quote

    by Bob of the Shire

    We know Eric Roberts has been cast as a mob boss in this film. That conversation makes it sound very much like Batman killed the mob boss (maybe by accident, during an arrest or something) and Joker took over his henchmen.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Crispin Glover was screwed!

    by ThePilgrim

    Lock Glover and Ledger up in a small room together. Tell them that if they can't make you believe that one of them is the real joker then they will both get shot in the head. Well guess whos walking out of that room alive with a wide ass grin and tons of blood on his face.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:40 p.m. CST


    by the_shogun_gunslinger

    George McFly is NO FUCKING JOKER!!!! what has this man done that is so fucking amazing that i dont know about? Willard? Charlie's Angels 1 and 2? dont make me fucking laugh.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:47 p.m. CST


    by SteffanLongdon

    I've said it from the start. Nolan could of picked who he liked, I trust him 110%. Remember Daniel Craig/007 anyone???

  • July 27, 2007, 7:49 p.m. CST

    I noticed from the picture

    by Rufferto

    Only his face is white. I am guessing this Joker wears make up.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:49 p.m. CST

    You're all not getting it.

    by jackanape

    he is going for an extremeley realistic version of batman and taking everything to an extreme. each movie leads into the next one, and all of those psychopaths were free from arkham in the last one, one is really nuts and slaps on some makeup, hes goin nuts while all of the other gangs are being taken out by batman and dent, who replaced the DA killed in the last one. JOker is suppposed to be chaos, scarred and dissheveled a foil to the order keeping batman, the batman doesnt want to kill, the joker does, probably horrendously from the sound of that phone number, and they want him to be real, a green hair dying, lip reddening, skin whitening psycho juice isnt real enough for it. Nolan isnt joel schumaker.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:51 p.m. CST

    phoenixmagi it's not self inflicted

    by messi

    nor is it cut, they are gashes on the side of his mouth caused when he tries to escape using a line across a building, but batman snaps it and it goes and hits the joker in the face.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:53 p.m. CST

    spidermanfreak20 & Christopher Eccleston

    by lynxpro

    If you are going to reference Christopher Eccleston's work in Series 1 (Season 27) of *Doctor Who*, then reference the proper episode where Eccleston should have earned his Jokerness...that would be in Episode 6 "Dalek" when The Doctor enounters Van Statten's Dalek prisoner. Going from scared to manic laughing and then trying to destroy it. That was range, baby, and that is what The Joker should have...going from pretending to be scared, to serious, to apeshit in a blink of an eye.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:55 p.m. CST

    the Jokerz weren't emo...

    by lynxpro

    Their direct influence was from the New York City "Club Kids" scene from the early 90s. Go rent *Party Monster* for more details.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:55 p.m. CST

    spidermanfreak20 The joker doesn't ally with gangs

    by messi

    he causes trouble against bats and crew and also the gangs of gotham.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:55 p.m. CST

    Good call, spidermanfreak20

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    on Man of my Word.

  • July 27, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    What is It, Rivers Edge, Andy Worhol in the Doors and

    by ThePilgrim


  • July 27, 2007, 7:59 p.m. CST


    by ThePilgrim

    you like the 30th fucking guy too say that. So how's it known??? Did the script leak?

  • July 27, 2007, 8:08 p.m. CST

    I have faith in Nolan

    by performingmonkey

    He certainly knows how to make movies with characters that are fucked in the head. Ledger's Joker should be his ultimate project. I loved the dialogue in the trailer. Proof that Nolan is still going to focus on character and not flashy CG moneyshots. Saying that, does anyone think that The Joker's grin might get some CG help?

  • July 27, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    You guys obviously don't like to be teased. <br> Anyway, all these references to prior incarnations of Batman in various media really doesn't mean anything. Nolan "gets" Batman. This is his interpretation of the Dark Knight. The first movie is flawed without a doubt but in good ways; mistakes at the technical level which can be fixed in the future. Not youknowwho's level of fuckup (not really knowing or caring about Batman and thinking after Burton's films the "geek" community wanted a campy, over the top Batman). Nolan's good and this is going to be great. Batman Begins was his first (really) big budget film and he did well. People doubting his him and his brother's ability to write a movie check out "Memento".

  • July 27, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST


    by jackanape

    some people that audition let some slip, one was the guy that auditioned for gamble, he's a gang leader.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:11 p.m. CST


    by MrJJonz

    The realism is part of the problem. Not saying Schumacher neon extreme is the answer but this is meant to be based upon a comic book and sort of fantastical element would be nice. Hell Superninja explains this much better than I ever could and Superninja really likes the 1st film

  • July 27, 2007, 8:12 p.m. CST

    The Joker is a bad guy?

    by The Dum Guy

    When did this happen?

  • July 27, 2007, 8:13 p.m. CST

    Go watch Tim Burton's Batman, or worse, Joel Schumacer.

    by lost.rules

    Let real Batman fans discuss this, while all you whiny losers watch Fantastic Four again. WHAAAAAAAA!! A-Holes!

  • July 27, 2007, 8:15 p.m. CST

    JJonz ya still here?

    by Deus Vult

    let's rap.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:15 p.m. CST

    Thank God you guys arent creatively involved

    by EjkoUSC

    I need to see more what Joker looks and acts like. If he inflicts these cuts on himself, does to himself what it takes to look like a Joker (ala Buffalo Bill's sick hobby), how is that not WAY more demented then falling in some convenient vat of chemicals? The people that bitch about that are the same ones who bitch about Spider-Man's webbing being organic. The same fanboys who would have made the Star Wars prequels all about an army of Boba Fetts weilding lightsabres across the galaxy while Darth Vader hunts down Jedi by the end of Episode I. My main source of optimism for this film comes from the fact that both Nolan brothers wrote it. They wrote Prestige and Memento together. Love Prestige. They make a great team and I think they will do something very sick and real. But back to maggie gyllenhall. What a dog. Sorry. I hope Joker kills her. Hope Joker kills Cillian Murphy too. On set and off.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:17 p.m. CST

    "He looks too emo." "I don't like the suit."

    by lost.rules

    "That teaser is LAME." "I'm a whinny bitch who lives in my parents basement, and plays Halo all day, and spends free time bitchin about movies." Oh, wait. You guys never say that last part. Do you?

  • July 27, 2007, 8:18 p.m. CST

    I hate comic book movies

    by ThePilgrim

    And the fat mindless fucks that support them. If the suit looked better (too much wannabe cheap looking high tech shit pieces sitting on the suit with the fake muscles and such) Will he ever be grey and black or blue. And with white lens over his eyes. Bale has no chin and the mask looks retard on that poor oversight alone. I'll fucking fire the art director that made that suit, and then I'd rape his wife.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:19 p.m. CST

    Hey Deus i'm here off and on

    by MrJJonz

    bit distracted as doing a bit og gambling at moment as well.<P>How you doing pal?

  • July 27, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    I live under your house

    by ThePilgrim

    I have a big fucking knife and an extremly short temper. Borrow your dad's cell phone fast...

  • July 27, 2007, 8:22 p.m. CST

    Pilgrim that is harsh yet funny

    by MrJJonz


  • July 27, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST

    Sorry let me rephrase

    by EjkoUSC

    I dont wish DEATH on maggie gyllenhall and cillian mursphy...I suppose. I just think Cillian is a shitty overactor and I cant help but just want to barf when I see Maggie's face. I couldnt sit through Secretary. Something is wrong. Some people even find Now I dont mind if you're not aesthetically pleasing, but for me somehow she takes the absolute cake. Normally I could say nothing. Why did they see fit to bring that character back? Ugh what is it with these DC directors. Kate Bosworth couldnt act her way out of a paper bag either. No personality. But Christian Bale rules so there you go. Love the new bat suit as well. The last one was far too clunky. Looked like Batman only with downs. Look again, you'll see it.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:24 p.m. CST


    by lost.rules

    Don't you just hate everything? I mean, come on. Be honest. Nice screen name, BTW.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:28 p.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    The real reason you don't like Cillian Murphy is that he looks like some coked out, anorexic model which oddly enough makes him perfect for the Scarecrow character).

  • July 27, 2007, 8:30 p.m. CST

    "He looks too emo." "I don't like the suit."

    by Logo Lou

    They said the same thing about Spider-Man 3 and that turned out to be... uh, um... well...

  • July 27, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST

    Bollywood Nightwing

    by Andillformthehead

    For all of you who don't like Nolan's take on Batman I give you Bollywood Nightwing:

  • July 27, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST


    by ComandrTaco

    where did that number come from?

  • July 27, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Deus you keep popping in

    by MrJJonz

    I keep typing you a message. You then fuck off to watch abit more 90210 and I look like an ass trying to talk to a ghost. Nice to see we are around at the same time for what seems like months tho

  • July 27, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST

    I Luv Hot Cream Tang

    by ThePilgrim

    Thats about it.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:40 p.m. CST

    why do people reckon the Jokers allied with gangs?

    by RockLobster800

    In the way that they all team up? What I got was that Batman really fucked over some mob boss and so in a style similar to "The Long Haloween" they tried to hire "a freak" like Batman, The Joker, in an attempt to bring him down. But seeing as Alfred says that turned to a man they "didnt understand" that makes me think that Joker goes completely nuts and starts going against any plans made, possibly even killing off gangsters because....well, he;s the Joker and he wants to. The only thing Im annoyed about is he clearly just paints his face..which is a bit disappointing. I get the whole "realism" thing, but its not THAT unrealistic that if you fill in chemicals, they'll mess up your skin....oh well, lets not dwell on it....loved the entire website riddles thing today-even the writing on the screen was spot on...very "Arkham Asylum: A House On Earth"

  • July 27, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST


    by EjkoUSC

    It occured to me that the scarecrow would look anorexic. Never occured to me that the Scarecrow would look like a male model. Where did you get that from? The comics? No. And why would I hate someone because they look like a coked out anorexic male model? Maybe you hate those people. Me? I like everybody. Except Cillian Murphy, Katie Holmes and Maggie Gyllenhall.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST

    Yeah... I ain't buyin' it

    by Emperor_was_a_jerk

    Ya know, kids- if this Joker worked so well, people would not have to argue for or against it so much. Yeah, it just doesn't work. Not a huge deal. Just take a deep breath and let it go.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST


    by MrJJonz

    I hope there is a scene as nice as new years eve in this where Joker gets a plane and wants to gas everyone just because there is a good chance the killer is among them

  • July 27, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    Jean Grey's hair is the wrong color

    by Dominic-Vobiscum

    Any other stupid annoying nitpicky things you guys want to throw out there about a movie that doesn't even have a real trailer yet?<br><br> And in case you didn't realize? Teasers are not for you or the people who scour the internet for news about upcoming films. So stow the crap about it being "disappointing". The teaser is to let Joe Six Pack know that a new Batman movie is coming and that it features The Joker. Because I can GUARANTEE YOU that 75% of the people out there who DON'T obsessively scour the internet for news about upcoming movies and don't piss all over adaptations of comic books because the characters don't look the same way they were drawn in issue #433 (and don't give a shit) not only don't know there's a new Batman movie coming out, but make up a larger segment of the box office than you do. So get some perspective and lighten the fuck up already. Jesus.<br><br>

  • July 27, 2007, 8:49 p.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    Actually I meant that Cillian looks like a one of those models (chicks) that are so skinny and anorexic that they start looking like a dude. Kate's useless but maggie got acting skills and bagging (not brown bagging?!!?) potential.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:50 p.m. CST


    by ThePilgrim

    chemicals that kill his skin and it's cracking and peeling all over the place. He covers his face in Vaseline to save what skin he can, but it's a hopeless effort. Chunks of white dead flesh dangle of or are stappled back to his red muscles underneat. It's cracked open all over the place oozing out puss white snot mucus. His lips are torn apart because of the tissue break down. Giving him that really weird smile. His gums are black colored and also flaking away.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST

    We all know this movie is going to rock....

    by Andillformthehead

    Did anybody on this site mention the "BLADE RUNNER: THE FINAL CUT" press release? Should this merit a talkback? I am an occasional talkbacker so gentle.

  • July 27, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Dominic-Vobiscum... umm... wow

    by Emperor_was_a_jerk

    So is that why WB made this teaser, and all the viral marketing stuff today, premier at Comic Con? Joe Six Pack doesn't even know what Comic Con is, or what the hell a viral marketing campaign is. You think Joe Six Pack is visiting This was ALL for the geeks. And when you gear all this towards geeks, you gotta deliver. And, according to many of the geeks, they did not. Besides, what else are we all supposed to write about here on AICN? The war in Iraq? The economy? We are not sending letters to the editor at the NY Times for goodness sake. This IS a geek site. SO lighten up a little yourself and have some fun! Don't be such a pill!

  • July 27, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Meh teaser, A few opinions...

    by DrPain

    1. VINCENT GALLO as the Joker 2. That make-up job sucks 3. Warner better release something better soon, the crowd i saw it with was bored and didn't care.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:01 p.m. CST

    Im always kind of shocked when people dont know...

    by RockLobster800

    theres a new Batman film coming out....I mean even the ending of the first one should have even the most casual film goer saying "hey, whens the next one out?" and plus, Heath as the Joker was pretty big kind of have to have your head under a rock not to at least heard it somewhere....but dont get me started on the gimps standing behind me after Fellowship Of The Ring "what? thats it? You dont even see them fucking chucking the ring in the volcano? what a waste of fucking time!" and then again after Two Towers "WHA?! They still havent got rid of that thing? Jesus you think they would want to round it off seeing as they managed to make a sequel after the first one"

  • July 27, 2007, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Ledger's Joker

    by M0riarty

    This Joker works. Laugh is spot on. Looks dangerous for once. Can't wait for '08.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:05 p.m. CST


    by M0riarty

    Why do you guys want to see footage at this point (a year out)?

  • July 27, 2007, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Emperor was a jerk

    by Dominic-Vobiscum

    You're right about the viral marketing. That was for us. But the teaser itself is obviously meant to be for the average moviegoer. To say, "Hey. Batman movie. It's got the Joker in it." And I thought it served it's purpose brilliantly. The line "Some men just want to watch the world burn." was so perfect that I wish I could steal it.<br><br> I just get so annoyed by people who shit all over things for the stupidest reasons just so they can feel superious for shitting all over something. It's the same people who said Jean Grey's hair was the wrong color red so therefore X-Men will suck. Nitpicking something based on a few darkly lit still pictures isn't the same as actual criticism.<br><br> Plus I'm way too fond of the word "fuck" and it makes things I type seem much more caustic and angry than I intend.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:11 p.m. CST

    That shit gave me chills.

    by mr. brownstone

    For real.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:12 p.m. CST

    moriarty - i'd like to see

    by MrJJonz

    a decent film a year from now

  • July 27, 2007, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Andillformthehead 2

    by EjkoUSC

    I know what you meant about Cillian. Its not why I hate him. He was lame in Red Eye as well. Its not just bad casting. He's generally lame. C'mon, "Its the Baaatmaaaaan". What a loser. I agree Maggie has acting chops, shes just unbearable to look at. Looks like sombody smashed her face (by the nose) with a sledge hammer, and now she walks around all uppity with her nose literally turned up. But shes a good enough actress.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Emperor was a jerk...

    by Emperor_was_a_jerk

    Ah I gotcha. Very well put! You are right- this movie is a year away, so who knows what the hell is happening with Joker. I guess I am just too much of a purist. I like my Jokers clown-ish, my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals flaming.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Anyone else think Batman Begins was a dumb title?

    by EjkoUSC

    I know for a fact that many of my friends and the casual moviegoer were led to believe that Batman Begins was a prequel rather than a reboot of the franchise. Why? Well the title doesnt help much. Its a dumb title. Batman begins to do what? Fight crime? I guess. They could have gotten away with calling it "The Batman". A much better title and doesnt confuse or imply that its a prequel. Its just The Batman. That is what he was known as in the early comics. Kind of a cool retro title. Obviously theres nothing to be done now. But thats why they invented the hypothetical isnt it.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:38 p.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    Let's put it this way...I would rather roll over and see Maggie and she's like "See ya later gotta see my agent" whereas Katie would rollover and be like "okay see you on the mothership". I'll take busted hounddawg over a doe-eyed, stupid hump (most of the time)!?!?

  • July 27, 2007, 9:42 p.m. CST


    by EjkoUSC

    Good stuff. Funny guy. My girlfriend read it over and didnt get the mothership line but its cool. You're a funny guy, guy. Batman Begins is slightly overrated.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:43 p.m. CST

    re: "Anyone else think Batman Begins was a dumb title?"

    by Andillformthehead

    I think the title meant Batman Begins - to not suck and have nipples and no robin or fatgirl or over the top gimmicky "villains" played by "stars" (Tommy Lees' a good actor but without a leash he apparently isn't that good) and horrible set pieces that look like they were filmed on a lot somewhere. <br> In other words Batman Begins - to be good...

  • July 27, 2007, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Jonz I'm back! was on the phone no 90210!

    by Deus Vult

    okay so do we wanna rap about the new batman movie to placate the mods?

  • July 27, 2007, 9:45 p.m. CST

    fanboys are never pleased

    by jackanape

    you want a movie thats just a recycled comic instead of a new interpretation of the material, and you saying these things arent going to stop it and make it change, it is supposed to entertain not show you what you know, some of you didnt like begins but it was a big hit and critics loved it, now i love the comics but if i wanted to seee that acted out then i would watch the animated series, the first one, but froma film perspective the series is gritty, dark, entertaining and good.

  • July 27, 2007, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Deus . . .I'll warn you

    by MrJJonz

    I've been drinking . . it is nearly 4am in blighty . . and I don't like any of the live action Btman films . . but I am winning on gambling

  • July 27, 2007, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Ledger; you better act your heart out this time

    by pipergates

    I have big faith in Nolan's direction and his casting, i have faith he will be even more at ease in Gotham in this sequel. I greatly dig the tone of believability he's managing to create, the drastic noirish & inteligent take on this caped vigilante. But Ledger, you had better tap into your animal energy and pull off a force of nature personality for this role, just being brutal and crazy is not going to be enough. The voice and laughter sounded promising though.

  • July 27, 2007, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Since when did it become known that the Joker...

    by mefrog

    ...self-mutilated himself? I kind of missed that part. Or is that just an assumption?

  • July 27, 2007, 10:11 p.m. CST

    Holy Crap!

    by vezner2007

    That seriously makes me excited for this movie. The joker line at the end was the clincher for me. I have very high hopes for this one.

  • July 27, 2007, 10:11 p.m. CST

    Why does everyone hate Cillian Murphy as Scarecrow

    by Lovecraftfan

    Come on he had some great lines and delivered them perfectly. "It's The Batman" One of my favorite moments from the original. Oh and why does everyone keep calling Joker emo? Does face pain make someone emo? I think you guys need to get a better defenition of whatever emo means.

  • July 27, 2007, 10:14 p.m. CST


    by GiLL

    his voice is retarded. sounds like a bad immitation. just voice-over with mark hamill plz.

  • July 27, 2007, 10:28 p.m. CST

    If you can't call the number check this out:

    by PervOmatic It is the phone call over the teaser trailer

  • July 27, 2007, 10:32 p.m. CST

    woo hoo

    by Cupid Stunt

    dont see anything, but like teaser still the same. should be awesome

  • July 27, 2007, 10:36 p.m. CST

    See Deus - you done it again

    by MrJJonz

    god damn you . . .one day I'll get revenge

  • July 27, 2007, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Cillian Murphy=Chris Kattan

    by Zeke25:17

    C'mon, think of Kattan in Undercover Brother and tell me he wouldn't have been a better Scarecrow....And on the subject of haters bashing the teaser, here's a possible reason why: we KNOW what Bruce Wayne/Batman sounds like, and we DAMN sure know what Alfred sounds like. Wouldn't it have been nice if, oh, I don't know, maybe THE JOKER had more spoken lines than friggin ALFRED THE BUTLER? What little you hear of Heath as the Clown Prince doesn't do anything to convince me that Nolan and Co. didn't drop the ball here. I still say the guy in Batman Dead End did the best onscreen Joker I've yet seen, or heard.

  • July 27, 2007, 10:43 p.m. CST

    a whole buncha Jokers

    by kafka07

    Jokers galore on the website! I can't tells 'em apart! Which one's the real Mr. J? And the teaser is smaller now, fits on my screen, but still loads too slowly.

  • July 27, 2007, 10:44 p.m. CST

    Prestige was great. Batman Begins was great

    by Lovecraftfan

    I think a little faith is in order.

  • July 27, 2007, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Memento was great - BB was crap

    by MrJJonz

    My faith is shaken

  • July 27, 2007, 10:51 p.m. CST

    Ledger is the Joker. deal with it

    by BizarroJerry

    They're not casting anyone else. And, I, too, continue to be amzed how people can judge an entire film and/or character by one still photo at a funny angle, and a dozen words of dialogue. Does anyone around here even WANT to be happy about anything. Amazing how spot on the Simpsons' comic book guy continues to be...

  • July 27, 2007, 10:51 p.m. CST

    Fans won't be happy until they make the Joker so crazy

    by Crimson Dynamo

    that all he can do is roll around a padded cell in a piss-stained straightjacket eating his own shit

  • July 27, 2007, 10:54 p.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    Lenny liked the batman dead end film too....till he realized he didn't remember it...

  • July 27, 2007, 10:55 p.m. CST

    Fans won't be happy until they do a good

    by MrJJonz

    live action Batman film

  • July 27, 2007, 11:03 p.m. CST

    I won't be happy

    by montessaurus

    until Stanley Kubrick is resurrected to direct an 8-hour 2-part Watchmen epic. Oh yeah, and Batman Begins = best big-screen Batman interpretation yet. Tell me I'm wrong.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:03 p.m. CST

    reverse - rotoscope

    by Andillformthehead

    Perhaps some can create a process where they can transpose live actors over animation so they can take BTAMS and "layer" the live action over animation. They can use Mark Hamill "Trickster" from the "The Flash" TV show for the joker scenes!!! Brillant!<br> Or maybe de-age Adam West like X3/DirectTv commercials.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:06 p.m. CST

    Montessaurus - you are wrong

    by MrJJonz

    Mask of Phantasm played on big screens

  • July 27, 2007, 11:09 p.m. CST

    I should've seen that coming

    by montessaurus

    i meant "live action". "Mask.." is awesome, but I think I'm liking the direction of "TDK's" Heath Joker better.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:11 p.m. CST

    Mask of Phantasm

    by Andillformthehead

    I liked "Mask of the Phantasm" but the fact that there was a continuity lapse between it and the "series" bothered me. Also several "cliffhanger" episodes like "Feat of Clay" I think were better.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:12 p.m. CST

    Timmverse's Joker

    by montessaurus

    I can't remember if his origin story was ever delved into in the animated series. I remember in "MOTP", he was just some mob lackey. Pardon my drunk.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Heath Joker

    by montessaurus

    from what little we've actually seen, I think this Joker is more in tone with the realism of the Batverse that Nolan has created. And honest to god, a guy that greasepaints his scarred face white because that's how he sees himself is already pretty fucking scary in his own right.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:17 p.m. CST

    okay okay I'm really here now and won't answer the fone

    by Deus Vult

    had to misspell on purpose for shame! but wait, isn't proof-reading for suckers? to wit!

  • July 27, 2007, 11:18 p.m. CST

    did anyone sneak out of class to watch BTAS?

    by Deus Vult

    and that's "batman the animated series" mind you. I loved that show.<p>hey so no one is thinking about pushing for my contest? that idea kicks ass!

  • July 27, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST

    Arkham Asylum

    by kname2

    is a great graphic just go ahead and make it a movie...most fans I know consider it the definitive Joker just in the first few pages

  • July 27, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST

    and by class I mean high school class

    by Deus Vult

    as in senior year being the fall of 1992? oh man it was so bad I used to have my girlfriend drive me home early and then come back and pick me up so we could go screw in the back of our neighborhood.<p>calm down mori, that wasn't too graphic.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST


    by closeencounter

    Looks like Joker's GONNA EAT!!!

  • July 27, 2007, 11:25 p.m. CST

    i watch batman comic since adams/aparo/norvick

    by sHapesHiftinLizard

    i disopiont wit burton shite. nolan goodo Joker going to be best rock and roll super movie ever and Bale be even better, thye growl aat each other. at ats. shall be the perfect love. at last, the super 78 feeling. Finally.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:27 p.m. CST

    waht i mean is

    by sHapesHiftinLizard

    this will be the love that was promised by the 78 superman movie but batman!

  • July 27, 2007, 11:28 p.m. CST

    Ahh but for film it was the best

    by MrJJonz


  • July 27, 2007, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Oh and Deus you ass

    by MrJJonz

    Welcome back - now 5.30am in the UK and light outside but I'm still going like a chump. Also weel up for your competition - as a single man with a cat I can only win

  • July 27, 2007, 11:40 p.m. CST

    You fucking don't it again you asss

    by MrJJonz

    God damn you Deus - like I never learn - I assume you never did this when starting to date your wife

  • July 27, 2007, 11:43 p.m. CST


    by spidermanfreak20

    The man they turned to could also be the Scarecrow not just The Joker. Since the leaked video footage showed Scarecrow meeting at the parking garage.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Spiderman - both Scarecrow and Joker

    by MrJJonz

    are in this film

  • July 27, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Use of the word "emo."

    by rbatty024

    It has lost all meaning. Right now it just means something that I don't like. I hate doing taxes, they're so emo. Changing diapers is fucking emo man, I hate it. I'm done with tipping people, because it's, like, sooooo emo. I still contend that the most emo film ever is 300. Spartans were completely emo. That dude cried and stuff because his son died. What an emo freak.

  • July 27, 2007, 11:53 p.m. CST

    WOW! Love this teaser!

    by LoneGun

    Love it. I wish I had a time machine to jump ahead to July 2008, when this comes out. I fully expect THE DARK KNIGHT to be one of the very best movies of 2008, just as BATMAN BEGINS was one of the best of 2005. Heath Ledger sounds amazing!

  • July 28, 2007, 12:14 a.m. CST

    I love how...

    by limpl0uie

    ...People are assuming that his scars are self inflicted and getting pissed-off at their own assumptions. Kinda stupid when you think about it...and by stupid I mean the people that are thinking that.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST


    by MrJJonz

    I assume it's oly competition was Police Accademy 82 cos it was not a good film - very average at best but by no means good

  • July 28, 2007, 12:30 a.m. CST

    didn't sound like Ledger's voice at all; curious

    by Demosthenes2

    Oh, and fuck titles/logos-only teasers. Lame.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:42 a.m. CST

    Please Joker kill her once and for all!!!!

    by ludmir88


  • July 28, 2007, 12:59 a.m. CST


    by ludmir88

    what a geek!!!

  • July 28, 2007, 1:17 a.m. CST

    MrJJonz, to each his own.

    by LoneGun

    BATMAN BEGINS was not only good, it was excellent - tension-filled, compelling, mythical, and even inspiring. It was about a man who re-invents himself, through a sheer act of will. Refreshingly intelligent for a movie about a crime-fighter. No movie can be everybody's cup of tea. But comparing BEGINS to POLICE ACADEMY 82 is just silly talk.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Why the "Joker's Appearance" Hate?

    by ThomasFlynn

    I'm reminded of the Family Guy episode where Mayor West rolls around in toxic waste to gain superpowers, and instead gets cancer. Remember, Nolan is doing his best to keep his Batman 'universe' grounded in reality -- or as close to as possible. So it makes perfect sense that he's ditching the drop into the chemical bath -- most people I know would end up with lymphoma rather than pasty faced with green hair. Nolan's already departed from Batman history with his first film (Bruce being taught by Ghul and all that) -- so what's the big deal with changing the Joker to fit his bat-universe a little better?

  • July 28, 2007, 1:27 a.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    some people don't care if nolan "gets it". They want grey suit, batman dead end fan film with McFarlanesque 25 foot cape and predators and shit. Quality means nothing. Depth means nothing. Only "is this Batman Annual #25 "enbiggened" in 3 dimensions"?

  • July 28, 2007, 1:29 a.m. CST


    by Transmetropolitan

    Arkham is one of the great Batman graphic novels, and is most defiantely one of the best examples of the Joker's true character. The red blood-ish font that was used in the comic, was used on the site that was used to hype the movie. Anyway, Grant Morrison truely understood Batman and the Joker as well as every character, I dont know if a direct movie adaptation will happen for Arkham, but who knows maybe someday. At least Nolan can pay tribute to the authors who truely "got" Batman, by having a Joker like Grant Morrisons, or hopefully tell Harvey Dent's story like Long Halloween did. Jeph Loeb understood Joker too. As for Arkham, that comic would be a wicked fucked up rated R animated movie, haha. I would love to see an animated Dark Knight Returns movie directed by Robert Rodriguez and Frank Miller.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:35 a.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    So who here didn't like Batman Begins?

  • July 28, 2007, 1:38 a.m. CST

    Lonegun I admit the Police Academy ref was harsh

    by MrJJonz

    I like my Batman who doesn't kill and I like my Gordon as important to the Batman story as Batman. Many other faults with the 1t film but the whole Ledger as Joker intrigues me more than any other casting for Batman

  • July 28, 2007, 1:41 a.m. CST


    by Andillformthehead

    and the fake-est

  • July 28, 2007, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Trans - you will not get the comic book understanding

    by MrJJonz

    just won't happen on live action film. I hear they are are doing DKR animated which should be great

  • July 28, 2007, 1:45 a.m. CST

    was that really him?

    by Andillformthehead

    I don't think so but I could be wrong.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:46 a.m. CST


    by joeypants

    1-800-395-9646 - got the number from an image posted on Called it, got a really really weird (yet awesome) message. Anyone else called this yet? Check out

  • July 28, 2007, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Bruce Timm, riba, et al

    by Andillformthehead

    Ruined it for any guy directing a Live action film. Seriously those guys killed it. That's batman not only for that (our) generation but for several to come.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:02 a.m. CST


    by MrJJonz

    You are right in one sense. They were brave enough to capture the spirit of the comics and not compromise . . .something the live action films won't do

  • July 28, 2007, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Butler Oh and by the way I have pressed

    by MrJJonz

    your tights and put away your exploding gas balls<P>Best Alfred line there

  • July 28, 2007, 2:10 a.m. CST

    rbatty024 :: emo

    by mr. brownstone

    Best post of the day.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:16 a.m. CST

    why is he wearing purple?

    by Boomers_Lips

    for christ sakes, is this Brokeback Mountain 2?! i know its The Joker, but god damn they could've changed the color of his suit. it looks rigodamndiculous!

  • July 28, 2007, 2:23 a.m. CST

    Use of the word "emo."

    by montessaurus

    i'm with rbatty. I remember back in the day when that word was used to describe a genre of music like Jawbreaker, Texas Is the Reason, Promise Ring, etc... <br> Nowadays, it's been perverted by Doucheboard Confessional, Jared Leto, Spiderman 3 and jocks that use it to describe whatever doesn't look like them. <br> That's all i've got.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:35 a.m. CST


    by montessaurus

    I am Batman, you're probably (no offense, don't mean to be condescending) younger. Let's say. Before it was twisted by various band/morons, the term "Emo" referred to a thoughtfully personal twist of melodic punk. Ten years later, it's used to describe anyone that wears black. <br> Lame.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:43 a.m. CST


    by montessaurus

    I just been pwned by some dude called I am Batman. I surrender.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:51 a.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by montessaurus

    Just out of curiosity, what is in your opinion, the best big screen interpretation of Batman? Outside of the animated stuff?

  • July 28, 2007, 2:54 a.m. CST

    will Adam West ever cameo in a Batman movie!?

    by Boomers_Lips

    jesus, they could at least give him a 20 second speaking role as the cook, or the guy who opens the door to Wayne Enterprises!

  • July 28, 2007, 3:12 a.m. CST

    A true teaser

    by moviemaniac-7

    Not a half-assed trailer. Sounds good to me, so far. I am looking forward to this one.

  • July 28, 2007, 3:22 a.m. CST


    by montessaurus

    In my heart of hearts I was sure that your answer would be some self righteous "this movie trumps all" sorta response". <br> That not being the case, I guess I'm with ya. As far as I'm concerned, the only saving grace of Dead End is the costume. (Predators? Aliens? Joker? Oh my.) And Burton has some profound ideas about everything. The man is a thought machine. As a Batman "purist" I appreciate what he did to revitalize interest in the character, I'm just glad to see him spinning his ideas away from the Batman movies. I agree with you in that "BB" wasn't perfect. In my opinion a ^_^ Robert Rodriguez style shot-for-shot adaptation of Year One would be the best Batman origin story of all time. For what we have, I am super-stoked. Nolan hasn't let me down yet. I have yet to see a bad Chris Nolan film. Even Insomnia was watchable. <br>And that was a remake. <br> Starring Robin Williams.

  • July 28, 2007, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Burton's Batman teaser was awesome because...

    by montessaurus

    it was the first time Batman was being taken seriously outside of the comics EVER. He had that audience naivete going for him. <br> Nolan is making this his own, and his Joker I think, is gonna be one scariest comic book movie villains ever.

  • July 28, 2007, 3:32 a.m. CST

    most of what the kids are calling "punk"

    by Geek Sodomizer

    nowadays is indeed melodic...

  • July 28, 2007, 3:33 a.m. CST

    are you KIDDING???

    by Geek Sodomizer

    the purple suit looks sweet!

  • July 28, 2007, 3:50 a.m. CST


    by Wonderboys

    Voiceover is nice, but the trailer is a bit meh anyway.

  • July 28, 2007, 4:11 a.m. CST

    My problem with Batman Begins was...

    by hank henshaw

    that while they showed how he trained in martial arts and how he got his gadgets, it never felt Batman was particularly smart and much less "the world's greatest detective". Still, it was much closer to the comic book character, than what Singer & Co. did with Superman in Superman Returns. That movie was awful.

  • July 28, 2007, 4:17 a.m. CST

    Burton proved he didnt know shit about Batman.

    by Wonderboys

    His films were full of 10 times more nosense than Nolan's. Keaton's Wayne was silly. Hingle's Gordon was lame comic release. Nicholson steal the show as a 60 years old Joker that could mount a complete parade, TV announced and all and dont have a single policeman appear to stop him. Ah, and he had a meter long gun that he could tuck in his pants and still walk without problem, and use it to take down the Batwing, while Bats, using machineguns (GUNS!! BATMAN DOES NOT USE GUNS) missed all the shots. Bravo, well done, Tim! And the firs film is boring as hell. Back in 89 it gave me a month long boner. But now Im incapable of watch a single minute of it. At least Nolan TRIED (and at some dregee succeded) to understand the character.

  • July 28, 2007, 4:30 a.m. CST

    Hey, maybe you understand quantum physics!

    by Wonderboys

    That are small details. It is blowing up a factory full of criminals (and therefore, killing a lot of them) something Batman would do? Nolan changed Bats motivations a bit, but stayed true to things like his hate for firearms (in a great sequence after Wayne tries to kill JOE CHILL, not JOE KERR, Bat's parents murder), and his will to help the city. Burtons Batman never stated clearly why he did what he did. He royally fucked up by making the Joker his parents killer, thus killing Bats motivations when Joker dies. And yes "I will not kill you, but I don't have to save you" sound like something bats would say.

  • July 28, 2007, 6:08 a.m. CST

    What all 5 bat films fail to do

    by Varakor

    was show the detective aspect of Batman, but there is still hope in Nolan's case. Burton and Shumacker all but dismissed that aspect of him. In Nolan's Batman and even in Year One, Batman was never a detective, he's more or less there to bring back some sorta balance. Hopefully and boy I really do hope that in in TDK Nolan starts letting Batman do some actual detective work. Oh ya and Superman Returns.... yea it sucked, nuff said.

  • July 28, 2007, 6:13 a.m. CST

    You're all emo idiots in denial

    by performingmonkey

    I like how people are so desperate to find fault with Batman Begins. You're completely in denial that something as far removed from your emo geek sensibilities as Batman Begins was actually a great movie. A brilliant cast (apart from Katie Holmes, but she's not in it much, and Nolan has rectified his mistake for the sequel) Bale, Caine, Freeman, Neeson, Oldman, Hauer, Wilkinson, Murphy, Watanabe. Perfect origin story. Created a good connection between Batman and Gordon. This movie was great, didn't you get the memo? You emo loser freaks.

  • July 28, 2007, 6:27 a.m. CST

    A 70mb download for a fucking disintegrating symbol...

    by Sledge Hammer

    ...the words Fuck and Off spring to mind. I mean I'm as hyped for this movie as anyone, but that was fucking bollocks. Not a single shot a film shown. What a waste of bandwidth...

  • July 28, 2007, 6:40 a.m. CST

    Lookin forward to Ledgers joker......

    by knifeandfork

    Jack nicholsons joker was great , but ultimately he was just playing an exagerated version of him self. I think that ledger will play the joker as a character and not a Caricature.

  • July 28, 2007, 6:43 a.m. CST

    nancy boy

    by in the future there wont be men and women only wankers

    why is the joker using a potato peeler as a weapon?

  • July 28, 2007, 7:44 a.m. CST

    Hmm, Police Academy didn't have idiotic "twists"

    by JackPumpkinhead

    more predictable than the fact that another Hollywood "starlet" aged 20 will be caught drunk and coked within the next month. It had Pat Proft as a screenwriter. The scenes in which Bubba Smith threw punches were filmed with a steady camera, from a distance. And it had a city that, in spite of not aiming for any "realism", looked like a real normal city rather than a ridiculous bling-bling view taken out of a teenager's painting "How I Remember the City shown in that Blade Runner Movie". So, yeah, comparing it to Batman Begins is deeply unjust and hurts PA.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:17 a.m. CST


    by in the future there wont be men and women only wankers

    jackpumpkinhead, what in the lords name are you talking about?

  • July 28, 2007, 8:18 a.m. CST


    by silentjay

    You mentioned the Joker doesn't just "slaughter" someone. Well, remember how he killed Jason Todd? A crowbar over the head ... multiple times.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:22 a.m. CST

    One word....

    by Rat Fink

    totally fucking awesome. Man that trailer just gave me chills hearing the Joker laugh. Can't fucking wait.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:40 a.m. CST

    If you hated the teaser, YOU'RE 12

    by ZoeFan

    Or have NO understanding that a TEASER is meant to TEASE, DRAW INTEREST and NOT give away anything. Honestly, grow up people.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:11 a.m. CST

    As far as Burton's Batman...

    by rbatty024

    they're much more along the lines of the Spiderman movies, that is they're one part cartoon. I thought his approach was fine, since there's a seventy year history of the character, much of it silly and cartoonish while other parts dark and brooding, I felt like Burton's Batman did a fine job of combining the two while leaning towards the darker material. The thing that bothers people, and myself to some degree, is that Burton didn't care much for Batman, he was more interested in the villians. I actually liked it when he didn't have to pretend he was interested in Batman as a character and decided to make the villians the stars in Batman Returns. That was a pretty ballsy move and to make it so violent that kids will cry took some guts. Remember, people kept on saying Burton's Batman movies would be like the 60's TV show, full of camp, but he really made huge strides in erasing that association with the general public. I think Batman Begins is a better Batman film but I also think there's a place for Burton's movies as well. Besides, they're endlessly quotable.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Jason Todd

    by spidermanfreak20

    Joker does occasionally snap. Jason Todd was an example. But it was more to push Batman over the edge. Now Joker doesn't even know Batman enough to hurt anyone he knows. Gordon, Barbara, Robin, or Rachel. The only person he can hurt could be Harvey. Since Goyer wanted to have Joker spray acid on Dent's face. But I still don't buy it. It means nothing if Joker sprays it. Harvey wont be pushed to madness he'll just kill the Joker. There's no punchline to spraying someone with acid. A better scenario is Harvey is set on fire and or made to appear that way by Scarecrow's drug so Batman/Rachel decide to put him out by spraying what they believe is a bucket of water from a janitors mop but it really acid. Then they see a sign that says CAUTION FLOOR MELT or something.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Tiny Urls Of The Real Joker Christoper Eccleston

    by spidermanfreak20 Perfection!

  • July 28, 2007, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Dialogue is cool but...

    by krushjudgement

    The dialogue sounds well written, (that's no suprise coming from Nolan) but what a lame-ass teaser.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:02 a.m. CST


    by mastes360

    I thought these kind of 'teasers' died in the 90's, what a load of crap.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:13 a.m. CST


    by mastes360

    Why is it that when a so called 'great' director takes over a franchise, they always have to go all 'real life' on us (its about a guy in a bat suit for christ sake!). Take the new Joker, why is he now just a guy who has cut himself and now uses make up because he's insane, more realistic maybe but this is a comic book film for fucks sake!.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Batman interpretations

    by LoneGun

    Frank Miller himself said it in the 1988 documentary, COMIC BOOK CONFIDENTIAL. He pointed out that Batman was really so simple, so elemental, that he was a character open to a tremendous amount of interpretation. Miller himself has approached Batman in a slightly different way each time he's dealt with the character in a comic book, and in my opinion all his Batman comic books have been great. Some people are more open to different interpretations than others. I liked Nolan's approach with BATMAN BEGINS because he strived for some level of appreciable realism, while retaining a mythic atmosphere. And the film was spirited fun. I do remember the hype surrounding Burton's first BATMAN and I was caught up in it, but then I saw the film and felt it had fallen flat on its face. Burton's BATMAN has some wonderful details in it, but it doesn't have heart. We never get to know Batman/Bruce Wayne very well.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:30 a.m. CST

    So does everyone hate Prestige and Insomnia

    by Lovecraftfan

    Both are great underrated films but there's some distinct unadulterated hate for those films and Nolan himself. Thats too bad becuase those are great films.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:31 a.m. CST

    This movie will frickin ROCK!!!

    by jojo-pimp

    I am so frickin excited! we may finally, for the first time ever, get a badass Joker who is totally insane and truly evil! I have total faith in Nolan and Ledger.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:52 a.m. CST

    This is the movie I've been waiting for...

    by andrew coleman

    That teaser worked for me! Bale sounds like as one poster already pointed out that the Joker gets to him a little bit. Joker's voice sounds amazing. I understand people are a little pissed at his design but you had to know he was going to look something like that. Batman Begins strictly tried to take a lot of the more quirky comic book stuff out. Like Scarecrow's costume only being the mask. I knew Joker was going to look like a psycho putting on clown make up... Because he's going to be a psycho clown in this movie not a guy who pulls out playing cards for weapons. Still I think this movie will be great same goes for Iron Man. Lovecraftfan I totally agree both those movies are brilliant and people who hate on them I think are really just jealous of Nolan and don't like the idea of there being a great film maker out there because then everything doesn't "suck".

  • July 28, 2007, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Speaking of bad dialogue

    by mastes360

    In Batman Begins, i only have internal speakers in my monitor so forgive me if i'm wrong but did Alfred just say "You hammered them" in this teaser (when talking about the mob criminals)?, if he did then thats yet another example of terrible dialogue in Nolans batman films!. Imo they should of got fincher, we would of still got the realistic, dark tone but we also would of got decent action!.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:14 p.m. CST

    I think he did say

    by RandySavage

    I think he did say "hammered"... although I have no problem with the dialogue.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Nothing wrong with 'hammered'...

    by AnthonyB

    ...its a cockney expression, spoken by a cockney character/actor in a film co-written and directed by a british director. No problem as far as I'm concerned.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:39 p.m. CST

    how I would have done it...

    by lynxpro

    I would have cast Christopher Eccleston as The Joker. I would have used Eccleston's natural voice for the character prior to his "transformation" but then I probably would have had Mark Hamill do voiceover once "The Joker" persona took over. That would have given the character a slight sympathy, but then again, some fans would biotch that that angle essentially would graft elements from Harvey Dent/Two-Face (and thereby robbing that character) onto The Joker. Still, it would have made for an Ultimate onscreen Joker that would have people forgetting about Nicholson having ever had the role.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:40 p.m. CST

    The Prestige was awesome...

    by lynxpro

    I don't understand the h8 for that movie.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:48 p.m. CST

    spidermanfreak20 sucks big cock

    by messi

    you idiot. Joker in this film doesn't kill for whatever's sake. they are using alot of batman 1, where it's a challenge for batman and the police to get to his victims before he does and also that it is meant to be heard about.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:49 p.m. CST

    mastes360 you cuntface

    by messi

    you never heard a cockney brit talking you dumb cunt? people who say bad dialogue have no idea what they're talking about. a few lines don't overshadow the rest.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:53 p.m. CST

    DC Comics movies-- Always "Elseworlds"

    by ZeroCorpse

    Marvel movies-- Starting to be the real deal. <p> This Joker sucks. Just a rehash of the Nicholson version, with a little Mark Hamill thrown in to appease the fans. Fuck this. I'm not happy with what they've done. They continually fuck up the Joker... Might as well just call him Clown Man.

  • July 28, 2007, 12:59 p.m. CST

    RustyBedsprings fucking hell

    by messi

    I don't see how adding some supposed political subtext makes a movie any better. I don't see how putting metaphors of the war on iraq makes this smarter, if it was it'd be 'cool they wanna talk about the war in iraq, what now?' it's stupid. Movies are fun when they are about movies, batman should be batman, leave your shit out of it, not saying it shouldn't be done in other ways, but I just find it fucking stupid and idiotic people feel smarter when they like a movie because of some silly subtext that does nothing like the idiot Devin from Chud. Fuck that cunt.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:02 p.m. CST

    People saying "too emo" etc

    by messi

    are fucking idiots. Learn what Emo is you fuckheads. It was a term used to describe motherfucking Embrace's music. Embrace was a post hardcore band, made up of members of hardass bands like Minor Threat. Over the years the term has gotten retarded but if nowadays you hear someone say it, you know they are pretty mainstream people. Obviously you cunce are stupid.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Painted face... Ugh.

    by ZeroCorpse

    Can't wait for the Wonder Woman movie, where she's not actually an Amazon, but a former American Gladiator and pro wrestler turned superhero. And that Green Lantern flick where Sinestro isn't actually that color-- He just slathers on paint before terrorizing Hal Jordan. And ooooh I can't wait for the Batman movie with two-face, where Harvey Dent doesn't actually have a scarred up half face, but just puts on a half of a rubber mask and acts all craaaazy. <p> They can't leave well enough alone and just present the character from the comics. It has to be someone's "vision" of the Joker, doesn't it? Fuck this. I'll wait to Netflix this crap.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:08 p.m. CST

    messi--- No one gives a shit what Emo "really" is.

    by ZeroCorpse

    Because it's all fucking stupid, no matter the origin. <p> And if you think Minor Threat or Embrace were hardass, then you totally missed the real punk era. Minor Threat were clownshoes.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:09 p.m. CST


    by LoneGun

    It did sort of annoy me that some people were saying 300 was a comment on the current war in Iraq. 300 was simply about the Spartan's stand at Thermopylae. It was pretty straighforward and it was good.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Mr Jjonz makes me laugh all the time

    by messi

    hehehe. what a fucking idiot. Most people loved begins ya dumb cunt.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by the_ro_show

    It sounds like you have a very clear, distinct vision of how you believe Batman should be portayed in a film. It also seems that you will not enjoy anything except that version. Instead of waiting and wishing for a filmmaker to match your vision why not get a little proactive? Get yourself a camera and shoot it. There's no shortage of Batman fan films out there. Join the crowd and, in the process, bring the live action Batman you envision to the screen. .

  • July 28, 2007, 1:27 p.m. CST

    nice one

    by mrbong

    rather this trailer than, say, I Am Legend or any of the other shit that gives the whole film away upfront. i am very excited about this, fuck the fuck off anyone who doesn't think this Dark Knight campaign is cool

  • July 28, 2007, 1:27 p.m. CST


    by the_ro_show

    To people who call themselves a Batman "purist" - what does that mean? Does it mean the original 1939 comic book character? The one who carried a gun? Or is it the 1970's Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams Batman? The Englehart/Marshall Batman? The Carmine Infantino Batman? Miller? Moore? Loeb? Morrison? It's all a matter of how you interpret the original Batman stories from 1939/1940 that introduced the character. And there is not right answer, since it's a matter of interpretation. I dare you to prove your interpretation of Batman is more "right" than mine.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Fucking epic

    by NeotheLessar

    This movie is going to bust bat-nut over you all.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Joker or Dent debate...

    by rhine1784

    If you listen to the phrase "I'm a man of my word" is it Ledger or Eckhart? Also it's a political phrase said with toungue in cheek tones. Also a public servant that used his knowledge for bad is "crossing the line" as Bruce states. Regardless I'm psyched.

  • July 28, 2007, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Dent debate (last thought)

    by rhine1784

    Go listen to the clip on yahoo for No Reservations called "Fade the Stars". Sounds more like the voice on the trailer than Ledger. Ok nuff said.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:11 p.m. CST

    ImpulseCaper -"villains nobody cared about"?

    by LoneGun

    Do you really think that? You can actually speak for everybody? Well, that's pretty dumb. I've watched BATMAN BEGINS repeatedly and I've loved it every time. And I don't generally care to watch movies over and over again. So, speak for yourself.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:22 p.m. CST


    by LoneGun

    Sorry to offend. I came across too hard that time.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Batman Begins can get repeat viewings because

    by superninja

    it makes Bruce Wayne interesting. It's the only Batman film to get Bruce Wayne right. And they really get the character - it was refreshing. The supporting cast is great and it's a lot of setup. I don't mind some of the detective failings because he is just getting started - I'm sure he'll be doing way more detective work in this with the Joker's breadcrumb trails. <p> My main issue is also with the treatment of Ra's Al Ghul. Ra's was criminally misused and Ducard would've been fine with his shadow organization, no need to bring Ra's into it and water down such a great character who could easily have his own set of movies with Talia. Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow was less offensive because it was close to enough to the archtype, there is nothing personal with Scarecrow and Batman, he is a second-tier villain. <p> I am very concerned about how Joker is being handled. That they are making it too reality based from all appearances and Ledger's own comments.

  • July 28, 2007, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Reign of Fire

    by superninja

    I like that movie. The dragon bait scene with the jumpers and the helicopter was great. :)

  • July 28, 2007, 3:15 p.m. CST

    If the Scarecrow is a "second-tier villain"...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ... he can't be an archetype.

  • July 28, 2007, 3:59 p.m. CST

    I had to wade through several crappy fan-made

    by CreasyBear

    fake trailers on YouTube before I found the one I guess is legit. YouTube should change its name to Shitty Homages to Pop Culture from Kids with I-Movie.

  • July 28, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    FINALLY A BadAss Joker (KILLING JOKE Joker???)

    by LaserPants

    Lest all admit that Nicholson's Joker was basically the same as the '60s Batman tv show camp Joker (in other words, a HUGE letdown and kinda ridiculously retarded, though, okay, funny). This guy, though, THIS is how the Joker shoujld be played -- as a viscious, dangerous, psychopathic, sociopathic murderer (w/ a seriously deviant glamrock image). The teaser was a big nothing, but the Joker's voice and the laugh at the end sent shivers -- really sounds cool. The pic above looks awesome too.

  • July 28, 2007, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Maggie G. May Be A Good Actor, But She Looks Like A Man

    by LaserPants

    Seriously, admit it. She looks like a dude.

  • July 28, 2007, 4:41 p.m. CST

    I just don't get why people don't get...

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    That TDK will rule collective ass like a heavy-handed Mord Sith at a Hogwarts dormitory.

  • July 28, 2007, 5:57 p.m. CST

    I loved Jacks Joker

    by Phategod2

    They picked a specialist in acting like a Crazy SOB and he nailed it. His lines where priceless and his delivery even better. I do think its become trendy to denounce Burtons Batmans, and I dont know why seeing as how flawed BB really was, now I'm not saying Batman Begins is not great movie but its equally as flawed as Batman circa 1989 just in different aspects. I dont how Someone can knock the Scene where the Joker Shoots down the Batwing with a elephant gun, then embrace that some type of Microwave device can evaporate all water in gotham except for all the water in the Human body, I'm no Physics major but I'm Sure all human life should have burst open like a dry water balloon a la WotW.

  • July 28, 2007, 6:04 p.m. CST

    I HATED Burton's Batman In 89

    by LaserPants

    What I wanted was Frank Miller's DARK KNIGHT as a live action movie. Which is more or less how they advertised it -- "this is going to be the 'dark, mature' Batman you've all been waiting for!" BULLSHIT! What we got was Tim Burton doing a goth version of the '60s tv show, and it SUCKED. Part 2 was only moderately better because Catwoman was so hot. Otherwise, it too SUCKED. The following films need not even be mentioned.<br><br> Anyways, the reason why everybody loves Nolan's version is because it was really fucking good, smart, and kick ass. (Btw, digging BATMAN BEGINS is a far cry from felating its director. Seriously, get an effing grip).

  • July 28, 2007, 6:07 p.m. CST

    The Microwave Device

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    I'm no physics major, but during the movie I was under the impression that the microwaves were emitted in a beam blocked in all but one direction, and put on the train because it passed directly over the water mains where it could focus its energy down on them, thus NOT vaporizing all the water in the city and its denizens indiscriminately.

  • July 28, 2007, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Maggie Gylenhal looks like a boy!

    by Boomers_Lips

    homegirl looks like a man!!

  • July 28, 2007, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Never mention a Shumacer Character again

    by Phategod2

    unless your talking about a Keifer Sutherland Vampire.

  • July 28, 2007, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Guys, Remember Joel Schumacer?

    by lost.rules

    Seriously. You should all be jumping up and down for joy that Nolan is the one doing this. I don't even think he was interested in doing another Batman, but Begins was so popular he came back to it. Thank God!

  • July 28, 2007, 6:57 p.m. CST

    Yr Kiddin' Right, Impulse?

    by LaserPants

    I mean, yeah, I get the campy thing, I mean I love campy shit too, but Begins was actually a good movie on top of being cool. It was a smartly written noir-horror-action film. Maybe kinda brooding/grim, but an excellent movie. The earlier Batman movies are just retarded; entertaining only because they're so awful.

  • July 28, 2007, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Burton may be a flawed director

    by Phategod2

    but he does not deserve to be put in the same category as Joel "Nipples" Schumacher, there only one Director who deserves that and his name ryhmes with Cykill Gay.

  • July 28, 2007, 7:26 p.m. CST

    YOu guys kill me lol!

    by the darkman

    All this bitching, and the movie is still a year away, my god. You guys don't know shit about what Nolan is doing, and as far as I can see the speculation factor is running high on here. Relax, take a deep breath, and wait to see what comes. Personally I liked both of Burton's Batman movies, but I'm not into comics so I can't compare them to anything that happened in the comics, and maybe that's why I can enjoy them as much as I do. IN my opinion though I felt Batman Begins was a far better movie, and one of the better comic book movies to come out thus far. I'm pumped to see The Dark Knight, and I felt the teaser did it's job, it got people talking, and I'm glad they didn't show any footage yet, it's still a freaking year away, I can wait a little bit longer for footage, as should we all. Everyone wants shit spoiled way before the movies release date, and then there's no surprise. Nolan is playing this smart keeping things from the public until the time is right, and there's nothing wrong with that. I trust Nolan because he's a good writer, and he's one hell of a director, and with each film you can see he's getting better. I just feel we'll be in for a treat next year!

  • July 28, 2007, 7:27 p.m. CST

    not so good...

    by kirttawesomio

    still the movie might be great. The teaser images released are pretty inspired.

  • July 28, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    Whomever thinks Buront's Batman was better

    by vintagecrow

    Most likely never read Batman, Burton's version, the Joker being responsible for the death of Wayne's parents come on, Burton does good visuals, but has weak story lines. Jack was good as the Joker, but Burton's Batman was not Batman, Nolan's version is Batman and follows the comics more faithfully. Burton's sequel, horrid. Simply horrid. Sorry, if you think Burton turned out the superior Batman movie, then you really are clueless about the comics. I liked Keaton for what he did, but he was not Batman. Bale, now he is Batman.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Would you like Cheese with that WHINE?

    by Damer1

    Ledger has been cast as The Joker... No amount of whining by faggy fanboys will change that. Move onto bigger and better debates.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Burton VS Nolan

    by Kemerton

    It's hard to judge their movies against each other because they both portrayed Batman so differently. What I liked about Batman Begins was that Nolan went deeper into WHY he was doing what he was doing and HOW he was doing it. Plus, as much as I like Michael Keaton, I just couldn't buy him kicking people's ass. With that being said, I liked Burton's Batman, but thought Batman Returns didn't work. The thing with comic book movies is that you can't please everybody...there are too many different phases of superheroes. Some people prefer the lighter, campier Batman while some people enjoy Frank Miller's version. That's the beauty in having different directors come in and do different takes. I basically treat superhero films like Bond films. Still, though---Nolan's version was incredible.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Why Burton's film is inferior:

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    "I just want to know, are we gonna try and love each other?"<P>'Nuff said.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:36 p.m. CST


    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Is it anymore condescending than:<P>"Begins was not a Batman movie-- it was a combination of a ton of other bullshit smacked together with-- oh yeah, and Batman is in this movie. Fuck Noland. Dark Knights gonna blow."<P>You're fucking kidding right, tough guy? Maybe you should try rising above that Burton camp/goth misfire...if you can handle it.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST


    by vintagecrow

    An improved batmoblie design? The car wasn't even really functional. Nice prop, but that is all it was. Like I said, I think Burton is a great visual director, but he is lousy on story and the story in Batman and Batman Returns was not only was cardboard thin. You complain about the first half of Begins, well the last half of Batman falls apart. Also the Joker getting killed? And you are dissing The Dark Knight and you haven't even seen it yet. Personally I perfer Begins, it is faithful to the comics, uses characters from that world and has better developed characters. Burton is way too self indulgent and like he has been quoted, "never read a comic in his life". Maybe all these Burton plants will save a failing career of his, but when it comes to Batman Begins, Nolan did the fans right.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:54 p.m. CST

    Starting tonight, people will snore....

    by Hugh G Rekshun

    ...because that teaser was ass. Still looking forward to the movie, though. Also, the Burton movies were shit. Thank God they started over.

  • July 28, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST


    by vintagecrow

    Sorry, but the last half of Batman was weak. I won't even go into the Prince score..."cringe".. I have Begins on DVD and take it out ever so often and rewatch it. I have no hesitation saying it is a superior film. Don't even get me starting on that poorly executed and dismal Batman Returns. The Pequin lives in the sewers...right...Catwoman falls out of a several story building and is brought back to life by cats? Right.... It is obvious that Burton never read a comic. It stunk bad. Visually fun to watch with the sound off to spare me from the horrible dialogue. Batman was a good film, not great, and certainly not the best Batman. Sorry, have to disagree with you.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:14 p.m. CST


    by vintagecrow

    It was FAR more faithful that Burton's weak attempt of trying to skim Batman's story line and make it his own. Actually Ducard/Ghul's alias, is from the comics, but a seperate character that did train Bruce in deduction...I thought it novel that they made it Ghul's alias. Also they put in Joe Chill as the killer as well as take characters right out of the Long Halloween. So yes, I would say that Nolan did his homework where Burton pissed over his. Also, Oldman's Gordon is spot on. There really is no argument. Nolan respect the source material. He also made the most of it and incorporated things from Miller's Batman and others that made it work. Burton didn't even try in that respect.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:21 p.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by vintagecrow

    Batman Begins was a GREAT MOVIE. =)

  • July 28, 2007, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Who Ducard was...

    by vintagecrow

    Henri Ducard: Ducard is one of Wayne's few teachers who has had a continuing presence in the comics, having taught a young Bruce Wayne the art of the man-hunt. Ducard's moral ambiguity led to future conflicts with Batman. Yep Nolan did a twist with it, but it was a nice one. He took an obscure character and used it well. Did you think Batman learned martial arts by osmosis? Pat Hingle or Gary Oldman as Gordon...easy, Oldman. Looked the part, acted the part, and his storyline fits with the comics. Lucius Fox is a fictional character appearing in Batman comic books by DC Comics. He was created by Len Wein and John Calnan, and first appeared in Batman #307 (January 1979). As a supporting character, he acts as Bruce Wayne's business manager who apparently unknowingly runs the business interests that supply Batman's equipment needs as well as financing his operations. Morgan Freeman, nicely played can I say more? At least Nolan read the comics... =)

  • July 28, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by vintagecrow

    Please don't weep, someday Burton will make a good film.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:29 p.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Considering the tremendously awful taste left in everyone's mouth after the previous BATMAN debacles (Burton & Schumacher), it's sort of a wonder that Nolan's film broke through. It accomplished this by excellent word of mouth which helped give the film some unexpected legs. The largely glowing reviews didn't hurt either.<P>As for the Batmobile: why is it so hard for people to understand the concept of the Tumbler?! Remember, Wayne is just starting out - he's piecing together the bits of his new persona. The Tumbler is basically the "chassis" for the Batmobiles to come. Calling it ridiculous is just a silly knee-jerk reaction to something that is obviously going to evolve over the course of the films. And as some have read elsewhere, certain events brought about by the Joker in TDK will make this happen...

  • July 28, 2007, 9:36 p.m. CST

    I apologise about my comment about Burton

    by vintagecrow

    I actually think Burton is talented for what he does. Visually he is unique and definitely will be remembered. But sorry, his Batman isn't near what Begins was. It was good for what it was, but it really wasn't as definitive as Nolan's. With that, I leave this discussion in others' more capable hands... heh.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:49 p.m. CST

    i'm glad that a lot of posters on this

    by lucid dreamstate

    thread didn't like begins. begins is by far the best batman film. just because the masses didn't go see it as much as some of the other batman films doesn't mean that it was lacking in quality and visual style. the source material that nolan culled from was not the mainstream batman that most people think of. i like the fact that a lot of posts on here are from people that don't even like nolan's batman. aicn threads are basically full of people that stir shit. the talkbackers that don't even like nolan's vision are putting a lot of effort into this. oh well, welcome to aicn talkbacks. the new suit looks like an improvement to me. anyone agree?

  • July 28, 2007, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Cry more Mr I am "Batman"

    by vintagecrow

    Too bad Burton didn't listen enough to Sam Hamm...after all Burton from Hamm's own words, destroyed his script. =)

  • July 28, 2007, 9:53 p.m. CST

    About Hamm's script.

    by vintagecrow

    Hamm's Batman script, which was diluted and dumbed down, and it reads brighter and more rewarding than the Burton film you've seen. Hamm's script for Batman Returns is a fun but faithful dramatic adaptation of the comic book, but Burton reportedly wanted to make something really weird, and rejected it.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:55 p.m. CST

    i am batman

    by lucid dreamstate

    yeah, the ducard-al ghul situation was kind of confusing to me. i'm not sure why most hollywood comic films don't stick to the real stories. it kind of pisses me of too. that being said, i think nolan for the most part did a good job. dude, the scarecrow visuals were good. i like burton's batman stuff too though.

  • July 28, 2007, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Only on this talkback...

    by M0riarty Burton's Batman considered superior to Nolan's. Batman Begins had an uninspiring first weekend but found unexpected legs through positive word of mouth. Begins had the highest CinemaScore (A) and exit polling scores of any of the Batman films. It also scored well with critics. RottenTomatoes shows that Batman Begins is the highest rated of the Batman films. For the first time in a long time people are actually exciting about an upcoming Batman release. That upsets a lot of Burton apologists that take the failure of the Burton films personally. As usual with talkbackers, a small minority has deluded themselves into believing their opinion reflects the world outside of this small space on the internet.

  • July 28, 2007, 10 p.m. CST

    Thank you Moriarty

    by vintagecrow

    I couldn't have said it better.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:05 p.m. CST

    Yes, krack...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ... they were. And I love how you and I am Batman try resorting to Box Office numbers to try and justify your opinion. How does that even hold water?

  • July 28, 2007, 10:06 p.m. CST


    by LaserPants

    Oh Christ, not the "it made more money so it must be a better movie" thing again. Oh well, I guess that means that TITANIC was better than CHILDREN OF MEN then? Also, I guess it means THE PHANTOM MENACE was better than THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK? X3 was better than X2? And so forth and so on. I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinions, but thats some weird ass logic you got there, man.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:08 p.m. CST

    i liked burton's batmans

    by lucid dreamstate

    but some aspects of those first 2 films weren't good to me. obviously nicholson was stellar, but keaton as batman? i always hated that lethargic looking, bulky ass costume. at least the nolan movies have improved that.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:11 p.m. CST

    box office numbers mean shit to me

    by lucid dreamstate

    some of my favorite films were not box office smashes. it is a good measuring stick for understanding the publics opinion of the movie, but i usually disagree with the herd anyway.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:12 p.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by M0riarty

    At first I thought you had legitimate gripes with Begins that I just didn't agree. Now I realize you're just being disingenuous. No one can dispute that Begins had great "legs". That's acknowledged industry wide. <br><br> "Fueled in part by strong word of mouth and a bustling, simultaneous release on IMAX, Batman Begins overcame the trauma that the dud, Batman and Robin, inflicted on the franchise in 1997, and it has showed the most longevity of all the summer tent poles after its somewhat disappointing $48.7 million opening weekend."

  • July 28, 2007, 10:22 p.m. CST

    Uma Thurman should be in this movie!

    by Boomers_Lips

    as Pamela Isly!

  • July 28, 2007, 10:28 p.m. CST

    The Fear Theme Is What Elevated BEGINS

    by LaserPants

    The multi-tiered fear theme; how both the hero and villians used fear as both motivator and weapon, as power to wield and cross to bear, the cause of and solution to all of Gotham's problems, is what made BEGINS such a smart movie on top of all the cool genre trappings. It has nothing to do with the updated tech; that just made it cool. It was the fear theme that made it smart.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:28 p.m. CST


    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Oh, you mean Box Office like POTC3, Spider3, or X3? All huge movies that didn't disappoint, right?<P>Basically what I'm saying is that the previous Batman films were debacles because they got progressively dumber (aka worse) with each installment. You can try to convince me otherwise but I don't think it's going to happen.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:30 p.m. CST


    by M0riarty

    You're partially right. Yes, the Burton films didn't derail the franchise in the way the Schumacher abominations did, but you're overlooking the fact that box office gross fell from $250M to $160M between Batman and Batman Returns. The franchise lost nearly 40% of its gross in 3 years! Viewers were not responding to Batman Returns; which is a large part of why the franchise was "re-invented" for Batman Forever. <BR> <BR> Batman Forever's box office success wasn't because of Batman Returns, it was fueled in large part because of the huge popularity of Jim Carrey at the time of release. If you remember back, the marketing and buzz was centered around Carrey's appearence. It performed ok, but didn't really drive repeat viewers. Remember, Batman Forever opened to a higher weekend gross than Batman Begins, and that's not adjusted for inflation.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:31 p.m. CST

    uma thurman was nice

    by lucid dreamstate

    to look at . she was the best thing about the shumacher films. batgirl was nice too. the first four films were some corny movies. begins is some other level shit, to put it ebonically.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Last thing...

    by M0riarty

    ...unless this thread picks up again... <BR> <BR> If the Joker laugh in the teaser doesn't give you chills I'm not sure you could ever possibly be pleased by this movie.

  • July 28, 2007, 10:57 p.m. CST

    ^The Laugh

    by LaserPants

    Dude, totally. "And some men just want to watch the world burn..." indeed! I got me the goosebumps.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Ledger & Gyllenhall in a movie again!

    by Boomers_Lips

    oh wait, that's Jake's manish sister Maggie.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:15 p.m. CST

    Gaius, sure he can be.

    by superninja

    He is an archetype on his own. In relation to the Batman mythos he is second tier because he does not play strongly enough off of Batman.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Hate's a funny thing!

    by the darkman

    After Forever, and the Batman, and Robin abortion for anyone to say that Batman Begins was not a good movie at all is just beyond me. I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when you look at Begins the first thing you have to adimit is that's it a better constructed movie from writing to execution. I know the movie isn't perfect, but damn is it good. I blame some of the short coming with the dialog on Goyer, he's a hack, and has been for some time. I truely believe that if it wasn't for Nolan Begins wouldn't have been half the movie it turned out to be. I'm not kissing ass here, I'm just stating the way I see it. As for Burton there's no doubt he's a very talented film-maker, and I liked his batman movies, but I still feel Nolan did a lot better with the material, and that's coming from someone who doesn't read comics. Oh well I guess the debate with fire along. Have fun with arguement.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:32 p.m. CST

    Another thing.

    by the darkman

    I love the sound of the Joker's laugh, I can tell already that Ledger is going to be a great Joker, and nothing like Jack's Joker which there was nothing wrong with, but I think Ledger will take the role to an entirely different place.

  • July 28, 2007, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Batman Begins blows Burtons movies out of the

    by superninja

    water as a Batman movie. Batman Begins is at least about Bruce Wayne and what makes him tick. There are all kinds of interesting things going on about justice, fear, personal responsibility. It was more character-driven than any of the others. Just would be nice if they could balance that with more of the comic book element.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Begins owns Batman, Returns, Forever, B&R!

    by Boomers_Lips

    and i loved the first 2. but BEGINS is an entirely different experience than the other 4 movies. i dont know, but BEGINS feels more of an adult movie than the other 4 did.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:32 a.m. CST

    why didnt Tim Burton cast Johnny Depp as Bruce Wayne?

    by Boomers_Lips

    since they're such best friends. i dont know why Tim didnt hire him since he's hired him in everything else he's done.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:37 a.m. CST

    Batman and the Chocolate Factory

    by WolfmanNards

    wow I didn't know that Johnny Depp was reprising his role as willy wonka in the new batman, but according to the voice that I heard in this trailer, apparently he is. That would also explain the popped bubblegum stuck to the sides of his lips in the picture above. Should be interesting.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:42 a.m. CST

    i wonder what a Steven or Lucas "Batman" would be like!

    by Boomers_Lips

    what would a Steven Speilberg or George Lucas "Batman" movie would look like!?

  • July 29, 2007, 12:43 a.m. CST

    where the Batman vs. ALIENS movie?

    by Boomers_Lips

    they should start making that.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:50 a.m. CST

    What makes the laugh so chilling IMO is Alfred's line

    by NoHubris

    "...Some men just want to watch the world burn" - great delivery by Michael Caine BTW.<P>IF the Joker comes off the way Alfred describes him in the teaser, this oughta be good.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:53 a.m. CST

    remember Batman from the WB's Birds of Prey tv show?

    by Boomers_Lips

    that was a good Batman. and the Catwoman was from that show was fierce!

  • July 29, 2007, 2:23 a.m. CST

    F the haters. This is gonna kick so much ass!

    by R.C. the "Wise"

    This is the only movie I'm truly jonesing to see next year. Should be incredible. Last one was a near masterpiece.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:24 a.m. CST

    Ironman will be terrific but this will be sensational

    by R.C. the "Wise"

    can't wait.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:29 a.m. CST

    Nolan's Batman v. Burton's Batman comes down this 4 me

    by R.C. the "Wise"

    The only thing I find truly superior in Burton's films over Begins is the score. Danny Elfman's score was iconic compared to Zimmer's take (which felt too heavy on the Samarai undertones). Let's face it, Elfman's theme is imprinted in our heads thanks to the first two films and the Animated series continuation of his theme for the Cape Crusader.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:19 a.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by Geek Sodomizer

    you're like the guy that says Jessica Beil isn't attractive. You're irrelevant.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:42 a.m. CST


    by movieman742

    Anyone know if any part of the script has been leaked like Begins?

  • July 29, 2007, 3:52 a.m. CST

    jokes voice

    by FirstManReturns1

    I like everything in the teaser except for the way the joker talks. He sounds like some nerdy guy with almost a lisp. And he delivers his lines real awkwardly, suprised no one else has mentioned this. The laugh was great though.

  • July 29, 2007, 8:20 a.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by lost.rules

    No, you're not.

  • July 29, 2007, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Burton, like them. Good. Schumacer, Ughh, abomination.

    by lost.rules

    Nolan. Well done. The Dark Knight. Dunno. We'll see. But I'm not too worried. What are you're feelings on The Prestige I am Batman? Cause if you dis that movie, I will kill you.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:03 a.m. CST

    With every new post...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ... I am Batman sounds more and more like moviemack.<P>Sad.

  • July 29, 2007, 10:10 a.m. CST

    As Roger Ebert said....

    by lost.rules

    Is the movie better entertainment? Well, it's great bubble gum for the eyes. And younger children will be able to process it more easily (some kids were led bawling from "Batman Returns," where the PG-13 rating was a joke). I liked the look of the movie and Schumacher's general irreverence toward the material. But the great Batman movie still remains to be made. Here is the most complex and intriguing of classic comic superheroes, inhabiting the most visually interesting world, but somehow a story hasn't been found to do him justice. A story - with a beginning, a middle and an end, and a Batman at its center who emerges as more than a collection of costumes and postures. More than ever, after this third movie, I found myself asking, Who was that masked man, anyhow?

  • July 29, 2007, 10:15 a.m. CST

    As Roger Ebert said, again...

    by lost.rules

    'Batman Begins" at last penetrates to the dark and troubled depths of the Batman legend, creating a superhero who, if not plausible, is at least persuasive as a man driven to dress like a bat and become a vigilante. The movie doesn't simply supply Batman's beginnings in the tradition of a comic book origin story, but explores the tortured path that led Bruce Wayne from a parentless childhood to a friendless adult existence. The movie is not realistic, because how could it be, but it acts as if it is.<p> There's something to it.

  • July 29, 2007, 10:28 a.m. CST

    The fear theme was "bullshit"?!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Wow. What a loser.

  • July 29, 2007, 10:28 a.m. CST

    The first four movies barely even count as Batman films

    by sarajevobot

    They're not really about Batman. They're mostly about set design and making money, and they owe alot more to the 1960s TV series than they do to any decent comic book version of the character. Burton lacked even the most rudimentary grasp of the character ("Batman's a regular guy, you know, that's why I cast Michael Keaton, 'cause he's a regular guy, but, you know, his eyes are kind of intense, look at 'em..."). Burton and everyone else working on those first two movies had nothing but contempt for the material. That contempt is apparent in the movies themselves, and it's spelled out, in case you missed it, in the interviews those involved have done since. Schumacher took that hatred for the character to a whole new level. Nolan and company are interested in this story and in these characters. I mean, they're still making movies about a grown man running around in a bat costume, but that story (as silly as it is) is a big and iconic part of modern mythology and they're treating it as such, and working to mine that story for interesting things.... which, aside from pointing out the homoerotic subtext of the Batman-Robin relationship (good eye, there, Schumacher!) is something no one bothered to do on the original four movies. I don't know anyone who recognizes the original 4 movies any more. Batman Begins is the first Batman movie ever made, and hopefully The Dark Knight will be the second. They got the title right, that's for sure.

  • July 29, 2007, 10:37 a.m. CST

    BEGINS Dealt With Fear/Anger Themes Better Than ROTS

    by LaserPants

    I'm a huge STAR WARS fan, and loved ROTS (aka the only good prequel, the only prequel worth watching), but BEGINS did a better job of handling the whole Fear/Anger theme. I wish the Sith, instead of the goofy ass "rule of two" actually were a shadowy splinter group of the Jedi; some kind of hardliner asskickers ala the League of Shadows. The prequels could have charted how the Sith, as a shadow group inside the Jedi order, slowly destroy it, turning the Chosen One, only to have Palps and Vaderkin not only wipe out the Jedi, but the other Sith as well in the ultimate Machievellian fuck you to all and sundry.

  • July 29, 2007, 11:37 a.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by the darkman

    we're all entitled to our own opinions, but your hate seems misplace, but if you know what BAtman needs write the script, direct it, and then you'll finally be happy with a Batman movie. People like you are will never be happy with any version of Batman, but hey that's your choice, but I don't agree with you, and that's mine.

  • July 29, 2007, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Every Hater Guarenteed To See It At Least 3 Times

    by LaserPants

    and thats just before noon on opening day. Then they'll come home and let us know how much they "hated" it. Before seeing it again, and again, and again, and again, each time picking up a new detail to "hate" before seeing it again. And again. And then, of course, buying the deluxxxe-o version of the DVD, watching it several hundred times, "hating" it more each time.

  • July 29, 2007, 11:47 a.m. CST

    it was fine

    by slkboxrman

    just like someone said earlier, a teaser is meant to it did its job fine....people lookin 4 major stuff in the teaser is a sad showcase of an internet world where u get to see tons and tons of stuff pre-movie so when u just see a bat logo and dialogue u dont get excited....personally i did....and actually the first 2 with keaton were the best of the 4....the last 2 with kilmer and clooney blew...did not need to introduce robin imo...... and what the heck does "meh" mean

  • July 29, 2007, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Whatever ImpulseCaper.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    You're still a loser.<br>'Nuff said.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Idiots, thats not Heath's`voice, its Aaron Eckhardts!

    by EjkoUSC

    Its Christian Bales voice, followed by Michael Caines, followed by Aaron Eckhardts, followed by Heaths LAUGH. So you're all complaining/touting Heaths delivery...its not even his voice! Drugs you're all on.

  • July 29, 2007, 12:43 p.m. CST

    I am Batman

    by M0riarty

    First you claim that Batman Begins wasn't universally loved, then when presented with proof showing that the consensus of reviews has it rated HIGHER than Burton's Batman you claim other people's opinions don't matter. Why'd you even bring them up then? <BR> <BR> You claim the movie didn't have legs, then when presented with evidence that the film actually had outstanding legs and word of mouth you say you don't care about word of mouth anyway. Why even comment on it not having legs if it didn't matter to you? <BR> <BR> Your opinions of the movie's quality aren't what's disingenuous, I believe you feel that way, it's you refusing to accept quantifiable facts about Batman Begins' popularity and box office performance. You're arguing around in circles (and in the process stepping in your own bullshit) about things that the numbers prove you to be flat wrong about. <BR> <BR> Great, you really dislike Batman Begins. You've expressed your dislike. We get it. Guess what, I hated 300 and Transformers. I'm not going to find a talkback to drop my pants in and rant on and on about. I'll calmly state my opinions and read those of others', not once pretending that I'm in anything other the minority opinion on those wildly successful films.

  • July 29, 2007, 1:52 p.m. CST


    by lucid dreamstate

    thank you. you have explained with precision exactly what i dislike about some of the posts on aicn. i can never understand why someone that dislikes a film and director so much will find that particular thread and post negativism over and over again. after a few posts, we get the point. i am not bashing i am batman, i am just saying that the lack of common sense is what baffles me. if you hate movie, then why are you posting incessantly about it. if i dislike a film, i won't post on the thread. it's that simple. i know i will take heat for this rant, but i can't be the only one other than MOriarty that thinks this way. the fact of the matter is this; some posters are just here to roil the true fans up. plain and simple. they love to tell someone that their dog has been run over. they won't go away. they live to clog up the threads.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:39 p.m. CST

    who would you hire to direct the film then?

    by lucid dreamstate

    who would you rather cast? mark hamill? seriously, how would you repair this obviously destroyed franchise that is in shambles? what would please you? i'm curious.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:47 p.m. CST

    i am batman

    by lucid dreamstate

    i have to agree with your rotten tomatoes post earlier. i don't put much merit in rotten tomatoes myself. just because they declare something to be shit doesn't mean i won't like it.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:51 p.m. CST

    superman returns was kind of weak

    by lucid dreamstate

    in my opinion. i didn't like it. it had a few good special effects, but i just wasn't feeling it for some reason. i think daredevil could translate into a really good film, but they dropped the ball on that one too. jennifer garner was hot though. even if she does have a horse face.ha haaaa. i still think she is hot as hell.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:54 p.m. CST

    fincher would make a great batman film

    by lucid dreamstate

    i have to agree with you. maybe he will direct one in the future. is he a fan of the comic? terry gilliam could make any movie great in my opinion. 12 monkeys is in my top 10 of all time. i still like nolan though. i'm still not sure about ledger yet. i guess we will know more about the film when they release a real trailer.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:55 p.m. CST

    "I stand by the reaction of all the people..."

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    "... surrounding me as we left the theater..."<P>Would that be your Mommy and Daddy? Cause whoever they were, based upon your reasoning, they don't "quantify" jack-shit.<P>I think the bottom line here is that you just can't deal with the fact that so many other people enjoyed a movie/director you choose to hate.<P>And are you so clueless as to not understand what the phrase "legs" means? Does it mean that its worthiness can only be measured by a huge $100 million dollar opening? No. It means that a film stays in the top tier because a consistent number of people keep going to check it out. Considering how awful BB's predecessors were, it beat the odds stacked against it.

  • July 29, 2007, 2:58 p.m. CST


    by M0riarty

    "Now, scroll back and find some quote of mine that you can twist to PROVE I'm an idiot." <br> <br> When did I ever call you an idiot? I never said you were an idiot for having your opinion. I think your opinions of the film are legitimate. I agree with some of them. I only had issue with the things you said that were quantifiable as false, like reception at the box office and popularity. Things which you're still going back and forth on. First those things matter, then they don't, now they do again because a "great" Batman wouldn't need legs. Which is it? <br> <br> "Life is so much better when everyone thinks exactly the same way about everything." <br> "My opinion is still valid. And, others agree with me. Others don't, and no one should care." <br> "Idiots! That's not Heath's LAUGH!" <br> <br> So we're all idiots because we all enjoy the film and share an opinion, and at the same time we're all idiots for not agreeing with you? You're the one in here chastising people for their opinions. I'd love to have a real discussion on the quality of Batman Begins; YOU'RE the one yelling "IDIOTS!" and "ASS ASS ASS". You're a joke. You're right about one thing though...why am I not ignoring you? Consider it done...

  • July 29, 2007, 3:08 p.m. CST

    i think they should continue to change directors

    by lucid dreamstate

    every few batman movies. that way it is always shown in a fresh perspective. i am batman, i agree with you on the ending of begins. it was a bit cheesy. when batman unfurls his cape as the train car drops down was a cool visual to me. nolan has some good ideas. he might surprise you with dk. maybe he will hit his stride with this one. i'm sure it is not easy to please the hollywood studio and stay true to the source material.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:14 p.m. CST

    The action stuff could've been better but then

    by superninja

    I'm not a big fan of showing a guy dressed up like a giant bat too clearly if you get my drift. He looked downright goofy in a couple of scenes. It could use a little more atmosphere and play up shadows. Again, my complaint that a little fantasy injection wouldn't hurt this franchise. However, the container scene was great.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:17 p.m. CST

    I like how they established the urban myth among

    by superninja

    the criminals by showing him as a nightmare vision when all of the criminals were looking at him while hopped up on fear gas.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:19 p.m. CST

    the scarecrow was cast perfectly

    by lucid dreamstate

    that was one of the highlights of begins for me. the hallucinations were great.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Box Office trends 101 for I am Batman

    by FriendliestGost

    It's one thing to state your opinion as fact. More power to you. But it's a whole other to talk about box office trends when you clearly don't know the first thing about movie distribution and box office numbers. Batman Begins had an unexceptional opening weekend. If it had followed in the trend of other movies with similar genres, audiences and budgets it would have petered out and left theaters below the $200 million mark. Your claim that you can just leave a movie in theaters until it makes a certain amount of money shows your lack of knowledge. If a movie isn't performing theater chains will refuse to play it, you won't get screens, the price to maintain screens outweighs your profit and so you're pulled. The fact that Batman Begins remained in theater so long shows it was doing good, steady business for movie theaters. Superman Returns, on the other hand, opened huge and dropped like a rock. It was pulled from theaters after barely crossing the $200 million mark. Compared to movies in similar genres, audiences and budgets, it should have done well over $200 after its opening weekend. This refelects poor word of mouth and repeat screenings. This isn't to say one movie is "better" than another. After all, many of today's classics were yesterday's box office failures. But to say Batman Begins was not a box office success story is just completely inaccurate. It's not opinion, it's math.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:21 p.m. CST

    He was younger than I expected (same with Holmes)

    by superninja

    but then I also thought that was an interesting commentary on Gotham - that someone as young as Scarecrow could rise to the top by being bought and likewise all of the corruption gave someone as young and idealistic as Dawes an opportunity to rise fast as well.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:28 p.m. CST

    i have things to do

    by lucid dreamstate

    i can spend an hour on here and it seems like five minutes.what the fuck am i doing?

  • July 29, 2007, 3:33 p.m. CST

    One of the things that surprised me is that the

    by superninja

    movie was so preocuppied with the theme of justice. Which is a natural fit with Batman, but which was distilled down to petty revenge or the "criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot" black/white of all of the other Batman films. This film is about Bruce navigating his way through what he will define as justice. Shaped by his parents, tested by their deaths, resolved by their memories along with his own personal experiences challenging his preconceptions. He's actually struggling with it early in the film but not in a way that makes him unheroic, he is just brokenhearted that the justice system failed his parents. He is angry, but finds an outlet for it and he refuses to cross the line for revenge or to withdraw all compassion in his desire for justice (which is a hypocritical hatred for humanity) like Ducard. He wants restoration, not to tear down everything around him. So in that respect it's excellent and makes Superman Return look like your average soap opera.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:35 p.m. CST

    lucid, yeah, it is the curse of AICN.

    by superninja


  • July 29, 2007, 3:40 p.m. CST


    by LaserPants

    Look, if your gonna jerkoff all over the equally terrible Donner films (admit it -- they sucked; garnering praise only as nostalgia objects), just do it as a *wink*, not base the entire effing movie on that fetish. SR was a complete and utter failure on every conceivable level. Hence why it bombed. MAN OF STEEL might have a chance if Singer steps back from the emo-gay-jeebus thing and makes it, you know, exciting and emotionally involving without being schmaltzy (as SR was literally dripping in achingly bad sentimentality). He managed that trick brilliantly w/ X1 and X2, balancing the emo-gay-angst w/ involving characters and situations culminating in ass-kicing action sequences. So what the hell happened with SR? I blame cocaine and a wildly outsized ego.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:41 p.m. CST

    NEW RULE: Comics can't be serious.

    by Bill Maher

    When did big fat fags decide that comic books had to be so fucking serious? It's a guy in a leotard fighting crime! So what's all this neo-Wagnerian bullshit? I though 300 was gay as hell 80s style, but this looks so gay it could tell the flavor of a popsicle by sitting on it.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Oh Bill

    by LaserPants

    You so crayzay!

  • July 29, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Donner films are good because of Reeve and

    by superninja

    Kidder's chemistry, and you know it has a comic book vibe. Reeve is just fantastic, but I can't stand car salesman Luthor and the plots are pretty lame. However, I can watch them just for Reeve.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Nah, you can retain the comic book vibe but still

    by superninja

    take the characters seriously. All the best superheroes are about serious things at their core.

  • July 29, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    by mercury99 Go there.

  • July 29, 2007, 4:32 p.m. CST

    I like Burton and Nolan

    by TruPhan

    There. I said it. I live in a world where liking one thing is not exclusive of the other.

  • July 29, 2007, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Heath Ledger's laugh....

    by dr sauch spot fucking on. He was the only thing I was worried about (Maggie G. can't screw this up too badly, she'll be as disposable a character as Katie Holmes) and the laugh at the end of the teaser sold me. Batman is the greatest superhero of all time.

  • July 29, 2007, 5:32 p.m. CST

    I Like Burton's Non-Batman Related Movies

    by LaserPants

    Top of the list being PEE WEE'S BIG ADVENTURE, of course, but his BATMAN movies, especially the first, were cringe-inducing. Awful.

  • July 29, 2007, 8:18 p.m. CST

    I want a Glascow Grin!

    by evilmasterfoo

    The look of the Joker is cool and makes me want to slit my face up into a flip top head!

  • July 29, 2007, 8:29 p.m. CST


    by EjkoUSC

    I agree with what you say on Singer's take. This is a man (boy actually) who doesn't really even care for Superman. He likes the Donner films but limits his passion for the character on his own cinematic experience in 78. It wasnt an homage to Donner's films as much as some sort of peculiarly weird trip down memory lane. Singer's vision is too small and contrived to reboot the Superman franchise. We dont want a sequel about little Superbastard learning to fly. We cant do the Death of Superman anymore since he shoehorned that element into SR (a couple times even). No Battle for Metropolis story since we've already seen the Daily Planet come apart. He just stuffed every iconic moment of the nineties comics into one movie, blew his wad early, and now we got nothing left. Also Kate Bosworth is a horrible actress. Harry Knowles is right about this dumbfuck take on Lex Luthor. Singer once again surrounds him with bumbling morons. His only frame of reference is the Donner movies. Singer needs to slap Donner's dick out of his mouth, lay off the coke, and hand over the franchise he's already ruined.

  • July 29, 2007, 8:41 p.m. CST

    Yackbacker part of me thinks that this is kind of

    by superninja

    the whole point of making a superhero movie. To explore larger ideas and concepts using allegory.

  • July 29, 2007, 8:43 p.m. CST


    by wolvenom


  • July 29, 2007, 8:54 p.m. CST

    Nicholson's Joker is very fun to watch.

    by superninja

    But that's because it was Jack being Jack. I didn't like Burton's take on Batman, playing him up him being a misfit mental case and manchild. And Vicki Vale is annoying, as are most of the Batgirlfriends, who are played up as more fetish lovers than anything else. <p> I'm one of the few people that like Holmes as Dawes and liked that she was a genuine friend to him and not wanting to just run her hands over his rubber nipples. They had a sweet relationship and she was smart enough to keep her distance. <p> I do think Begins went too far in its faux realism and could've used more of a noir fantasy vibe. But while Burton's sets looked great, his movie is like a cheezy stage play.

  • July 29, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST

    More psyched by this teaser than that shitty ironman

    by wolvenom

    Fucking favreau making ironman some kind of comedian and you guys just fucking lapping up that shit cause the character somehow plays to robert downey jr.'s vanity. SORRY FOLKS! HATE TO BUST YOUR BUBBLE! BUT SPIDER-MAN MAY BE A COMEDIAN BUT IRONMAN DEFINATELY IS NOT A FUCKING COMEDIAN! Mr. I DIRECTED ELF BETTER FUCKING PUT A LIMIT TO HIS FUCKING SENSE OF SHITTY HUMOUR AND STARK's STUPID ONE LINERS BETTER BE A MINOR PART OF IT or THIS IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER FUCKING FANTASTIC FOUR. I dont mind some fucking comedy in comic book movies. Its a given. Those of us who actually read the fucking comics do feel we got cheated by not getting the wise-cracking spider-man we deserved. You all know who you are. The ones who actually read the fucking comics and not the poseurs watching the fucking cartoons and basing all their comic book geekiness on that. BUT ANYONE AND I MEAN ANYONE WHO HAS READ ANY FUCKING IRONMAN COMICS KNOW THAT STARK IS NOT A FUCKING COMEDIAN, HE'S A SHAKESPEAREAN TRAGEDY AND IT REALLY SHOWS IN FUCKING THE MARVEL CIVIL WAR SERIES. All you fucking Nolan haters don't realize what he's done for us who've lost faith in hollywood's ability to adapt comic to screen (because of fantasic four abominations, ghost rider, shumaccer batmans, shitty daredevils)... SO SHUT THE FUCK UP HATERS BEFORE YOU FUCKING RUIN IT FOR US!!! IM BEING FUCKING SERIOUS! JUST SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTHS BEFORE YOU SCARE AWAY SOMEONE WHO FINALLY HAS THE BALLS TO PUT COMIC TO SCREEN WITHOUT SUCKING THE BALLS OF MAINSTREAM STUPIDITY.

  • July 29, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Also, Liam Neeson can't play bad guys. For some

    by superninja

    reason I just don't buy it, he always comes across as mild mannered. Don't really like Begins for its villains.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST

    Would've liked to see Tom Wilkinson go on a bit longer

    by superninja

    as Falcone. The restaurant scene was another good one he could've hung around. They could've just had Ducard training Bruce and then the shock to Bruce of finding out he's working for Falcone and is a mercenary. Could've left Ra's out of it entirely.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:25 p.m. CST

    do ras al ghul and ducard ever cross

    by lucid dreamstate

    paths in the source material? i am not as familiar with the official cannon as i would like to be. i am just curious if they were allies in the comics? it seems like a lot of posts are questioning the al ghul and ducard storyline in begins.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:33 p.m. CST

    lucid, I don't think so. They combined Ducard and Ra's

    by superninja

    Here is the Wiki entry: <p> In the comics, Bruce Wayne approached Ducard for training in Paris, during his early days traveling the world. Ducard is a knowledgeable detective with excellent man hunting skills and was able to impart much of his knowledge to the young, keen Bruce. <p> Later in the series, it is revealed that Ducard is largely amoral, working for criminals as often as he does the law. He deduces Batman's identity, but keeps it to himself, thinking as he leaves that Batman continues to exist because true criminals realize that he distracts the people from the greater crimes by his public battle against lesser crimes.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:42 p.m. CST

    what's the official story on the joker's skin

    by lucid dreamstate

    in the comics? i am not very familiar with the source material as i would like to be. i am curious about the joker.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    more human than human

    by lucid dreamstate

    that is our motto. it has occured to me that the campy batman tv show was really just pure garbage except for batgirl. that was the highlight of the whole thing for me now that i think of it. that shit was so corny. it's a black eye for d.c. comics. marvel had more integrity in my opinion. i used to love that show when i was a kid, but they would have to pay me to watch that crap now. begins and dark knight are more along the lines of what i think of as batman.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    He falls into a vat of chemicals and it alters the

    by superninja

    coloration of his skin, nails, hair, etc. His smile is his own, it's not surgically altered, although DC recently had him cut his cheeks, probably in deference to this. <p> His origin kind of moves around, I think someone mentioned a reference in DC Comics where someone says Joker tells a different origin story every time, so no one is sure. The most popular one is that he's a failed comedian who is exploited by hoods to earn some extra cash and puts on a red hood and commits crimes when they are caught by Batman and Joker is accidentally dropped into the chemicals. <p> The most interesting aspect of the character, to me, is that a two-bit nobody emerges from the chemicals and basically reinvents himself completely, his own creation, severing all ties to who he once was.

  • July 29, 2007, 9:56 p.m. CST


    by lucid dreamstate

    thanks for the backstory. has joker always been batman's ultimate foe? it seems like he always has batman's number. what's the deal with their codependence on each other?

  • July 29, 2007, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Adam West Batman is hilarious primarly because it

    by superninja

    is just so silly.

  • July 29, 2007, 10 p.m. CST


    by lucid dreamstate

    that batman tv show was kind of funny. i just think it is worthless in the official cannon. at least it informed watchers about the batman "universe" even if it was corny as hell. they made the joker and catwoman household names so i guess that was a positive aspect.

  • July 29, 2007, 10 p.m. CST

    He has become like Moriarty to Batman's Holmes.

    by superninja

    He thinks only he is worthy of challenging Batman and visa versa. Joker is the codependent one - Batman just wants him to go away but won't cross the line and kill him. Joker commits crimes primarily to get Batman's attention to fund schemes to kill him and also for his own ego and reputation.

  • July 29, 2007, 10:02 p.m. CST

    No, it's true it contributes to the idea that Batman

    by superninja

    is purely juvenile and not about serious themes.

  • July 29, 2007, 10:28 p.m. CST

    RE: The Joker Reinventing Himself

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    That's one of the concepts I liked best about ARKHAM ASYLUM. If memory serves me, the Joker (who is portrayed as a quasi-transvestite psycho) states that he is more or less a new person everyday. The mental state of an individual who is never the same person on any given day is a very frightening prospect.

  • July 29, 2007, 11:05 p.m. CST

    The joker was around for a while before the hoods thing

    by ScamsAndFlams

    I think it was The Killing Joke that established the origin with the hood and the chemical plant. Great story, but not necessary as Joker's origin. Who cares if it's facepaint or permanent. The character is above these trivial gimmicks. I think Ledger will pull it off, just got a feeling about him I guess.

  • July 29, 2007, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Burton's self indulgence made me sick.

    by DougMcKenzie

    I remember sitting in grade 12 English (Circa 1994) and launching a diatribe in class about how Burton used the Batman moniker and built-in audience to advance his own agenda and artistic sensabilties in the face of the fans of the character. He wanted in my opinion to attach his expressionist psuedo-goth style to the gross of those films in order to con dim-witted hollywood bankrollers into funding his own pet projects. "Hey see the gross on Batman! The joe-and-mary audience in small town would love to see anything truly arty and weird!" Post-diatribe, the quiet kid in the back with black nailpolish, black trenchcoat, flock of seagulls haircut, and nightmare before christmas wrist watch said out-loud the only thing he said all semester: "That I was wrong".

  • July 29, 2007, 11:44 p.m. CST

    I'm not indifferent in regards to face paint vs being

    by superninja

    physically warped so as to be full-time freakish. Probably the face paint is actually scarier, just like putting on a mask is scarier than having a disfigured face - because it's a deliberate choice and it suggests that something icky is hidden inside that comes out when the paint/mask comes on and can be otherwise hidden. But at the same time, I like that the Joker fancies his freakishness and adopted it as part of his new character. He thinks he's handsome, in fact he's extremely vain. But then I like the Joker to be scary for his unpredictability and not because he is a ghoul.

  • July 29, 2007, 11:47 p.m. CST

    What I mean is that makeup suggest duality

    by superninja

    (like Batman) when there is no duality for Joker. Whoever he once was is gone, and frankly, I don't want a Joker origin story. He's more interesting if no one knows and it's left mysterious.

  • July 29, 2007, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Blade III sure has some crappy fight choreography.

    by superninja

    Stick to writing, dude!

  • July 30, 2007, 12:12 a.m. CST

    a little off topic

    by Phategod1

    We spoke about G4's AOTS on the Ironman Favrue topic. Love or hate the show the one thing I can't deny is how Good Kevin P is a good interviewer but I loses a little respect for him every time he interviews Uwe Boll.

  • July 30, 2007, 12:19 a.m. CST

    sorry for the run on

    by Phategod1

    Walter B said F proof reading.

  • July 30, 2007, 8:13 a.m. CST

    The Red Hood / Joker

    by zer0cool2k2

    The Red Hood story existed in the comics many years before "The Killing Joke". TKJ embellished it, adding the Failed-comedian/pawn of the mob angle. Originally, "The Red Hood" was a leader of his own gang of crooks. I even remember a very old Batman or Detective comic that had Batman deducing that the Red Hood had red two-way mirrors so he could see out of the hood, similar to Spidey's eyes on his mask. During a Bats-botched robbery, The Red Hood accidently got dropped into a vat of chemicals at the Acme Playing Card Factory, and emerged the Joker. The killing Joke, while probably the definitive Joker story, didn't create the Red Hood, just embellished and filled in some details.

  • July 30, 2007, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Joker without bleached skin? ARE YOU FUCKIN KIDDING ME?

    by Sagan

    ok so far i found this joker decent, i like the deformed/scary look, and the voice is OK (the laughter was good) BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT HAS NO BLEACHED SKIN???? JOKER PUTTING WHITE MAKEUP ON HIMSELF????? fuck thats the dealbreaker... im not kidding, this is "Flames on optimus" level of lameness, by the way where that info came from?

  • July 30, 2007, 10:09 a.m. CST

    about joker's skin

    by atomic_robo_kid

    i'm thinking that maybe joker starts off as a very sick and twisted criminal who does the face-paint thing just because he's totally crazy, and perhaps later in the movie, gets thrown in chemicals during a climactic fight-scene with batman? something so that he comes back REALLY pissed, and REALLY insane for a third film? who knows!

  • July 30, 2007, 11:11 a.m. CST

    lucid dreamstate

    by James Westfall

    As campy as the Batman TV show was, at that time it came out you weren't going to get a "dark" superhero franchise. Put that series into perspective. It also brought in a ton new readers to D.C., even if the Batman comics started to mirror the campiness of the TV show. Ultimately the TV show is what has added to Batman's longevity - same goes for Superman, Spider-Man, Hulk and Wonder Woman with their TV versions.

  • July 30, 2007, 11:17 a.m. CST


    by James Westfall

    The make-up info is right there for ya under Merrick's write-up. Look at the neck on "Joker" (and I use that term loosely) and you will see his face if painted on - it's not bleached skin. He looks more like one of the Dead Presidents bank robbers had a kid with Scott Valentine from 'My Demon Lover' and then put lipstick on him. This is *not* the Joker.

  • July 30, 2007, 11:27 a.m. CST


    by Sagan

    you are right! he's just using makeup!!! ok...the dark knight has just plummeted for me.....sigh, and i thought we could have The Killing Joke version of the Joker, (that comic is fuckin awesome) instead we are getting The Crow....lame

  • July 30, 2007, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Sagan & James Westfall

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Does anybody even know at what point in the film's story that photo takes place? Has anyone confirmed one way or the other that Ledger's Joker will only be using make-up?<P>Why does no one ask these questions before they start slamming a movie via a single promotional image?

  • July 30, 2007, 12:50 p.m. CST

    as a non-Batman comic book reader...

    by just pillow talk

    It doesn't bother me one way or another if the Joker is disfigured or just decides to paint his face. I just want a psychotic bad guy who will be a real nemesis to Batman...<p>Though I would think that that pic is early on and after a confrontation with Bats, gets his face messed up.

  • July 30, 2007, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Remember how everyone hated organic web shooters?

    by TruPhan

    And then it turned out it didn't even matter?

  • July 30, 2007, 2:55 p.m. CST

    My God

    by Mattyboy122

    Ledger sounds terrible. The dialogue between Bale and Caine is pretty good (thanks to no Goyer on the script), but the second Ledger's voice pops up, it's like reheated Nicholson sans the charisma that Nicholson brought to the role. If you're going to go that shitty route, why not get Christian Slater. Christ, he sounds terrible. "I'm a man of my wooorrrddddd." Fuck's sake. Eccleston would've been infinitely better than this garbage. What happened to all this "I'm doing my own interpretation" bullshit that Ledger was spouting? The laugh even sounded like Nicholson! Terrible. Just terrible.

  • July 30, 2007, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Batman movies

    by garofellatio

    I dunno how many people are still reading this far down the TB, but I just wanted to exercise my fingers on the keyboard. NONE of the superhero movies ever made has really been right. Burton's Batman is nigh-impossible to watch now, and I never liked most of it. Jack Nicholson is playing Jack Nicholson. Saving grace: Wait'll they get a load of me. (If only Burton had yelled CUT!) But we owe Nicholson; without him, there would have been no franchise. Returns: Like it, although Bats was let down and Catwoman just a nut who destroyed things. But I thought Pengy was menacing and a real tortured soul. Mask of the Phantasm is a very sincerely-made bore. Batman Forever: Kilmer (and his storyline) was great, rest of movie was campy crap. Batman & Robin: Uma was awful, the motorcycle race was pointless, but the rest is very watchable in a kind of Batman-lite kinda way. Begins is boring and has watered-down villains but at last Batman became the kick-ass, non-campy movie hero we all knew he could be. I really belive that TDK could be the best live-action Batman movie yet.

  • July 30, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Nope, organic webshooters still suck and are gross.

    by superninja

    Go figure.

  • July 30, 2007, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Because the webshooters demonstrated him as

    by superninja

    scientifically adept and because organic shooters are nasty and were only used lamely for sexual metaphors.

  • July 30, 2007, 5:05 p.m. CST

    He's not Batman, he's not as driven as Batman.

    by superninja

    Spider-Man is as much an outlet for him, even with the complications. He has powers, he is not self-made. As for the shooters he builds them originally out of electronics he takes apart around the house (radio), if I recall. He builds shooters in the movie to direct the organic gunk as well - so the truth is it was all for lame sexual metaphors as it was in the original James Cameron treatment. In the comic he creates a formula in his chem class for the webs. They dissolve after a period of time, but I guess he could've sold the formula but then people might have figured out his secret i.d. and he gets a thrill out of being Spider-Man.

  • July 30, 2007, 5:15 p.m. CST

    Karen Allen would make a great Joker

    by Reynard Muldrake

    does he slice up 'Rachel Dawes' in there??

  • July 30, 2007, 5:15 p.m. CST

    why was galactus

    by lucid dreamstate

    so different in the f.4. movie than he is in the comic books that i've seen? i just thought that i would ask since people are commenting on marvel stuff on this thread too.

  • July 30, 2007, 5:36 p.m. CST

    They used the Warren Ellis reemagining of Galactus

    by superninja

    who he called "Gah-lak-tus" because they've ultimatized everything to try to sell more comics (Ultimatizing consists of making everyone an asshole and adding a layer of faux realism). Gah-lak-tus has fear rays and is more like Braniac on crack whereas Galactus (the original Kirby creation) was a mysterious cosmic entity that had to consume planets to survive. His most famous quote is, "I hunger." His story has changed over the years, including that his origins are he was a survivor of the prior universe's collapse and then became like an elder god when the new universe came into existence.

  • July 30, 2007, 5:45 p.m. CST

    The movie was more merging the Kirby Galactus with

    by superninja

    the imagery of the Ultimate version.

  • July 30, 2007, 6:10 p.m. CST

    This has already been said probably a jillion times

    by Reynard Muldrake

    but i didn't have the energy to skim the Talkbacks...except for some subject lines - BUT - he has to get bleached...i think that picture above is him in 'pre-Joker, but still homicidal maniac mode'...his hair is obviously brown, and yeah, the white stops under his chin and the grin is just painted on to cover his little scar, which i'm sure gets cut all the way open when he gets 'jokerfied'...which is just gonna be the shit. again, apologies in advance if this has been covered ad nauseam

  • July 30, 2007, 6:35 p.m. CST

    The "Real" Batman.... (long read)

    by David Cain

    I've been lurking this site for 10 years now but never felt compelled to post until today. I've been reading Batman comics for damn near 19 years now. This is a debate I've seen more times than I wish to count. Yet the ones who instigated never seem to figure out that the character's history dictates that there is no "real" Batman. There are so many different interpretations of the character that it's just impossible to have such a narrow minded vision of him. I guess I'd qualify as a "purist" (a label I hate) in that I own and have read everything from works by Alan Grant, Bill Finger, Steve Englehart, Doug Moench, Denny O'Neill, Chuck Dixon, Frank Miller, Jeph Loeb (who's bat-work I find overrated but I digress) to more recent writers like Matt Wagner, Greg Rucka & Ed Brubaker I could go on and on. My favorite run on Batman comics was the original Englehart & Rogers run from 'tec # 469 -476. Now that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy other runs like O'Neill/Adams, Starlin/Aparo, Grant/Breyfogle or to get a bit more recent Brubaker/McDaniels. Just that it's the one Batman story arc that I personally rank above all others. To me it was perfection. Whatever each one of those writers I mentioned did with the character while different from each other is just as valid as the next. Each one is the "real" Batman in it's own way. Each one either appeals to one particular type of Batman fan or to the type of Batman fan who enjoys all interpretations of the mythos. That's why I never understood how some people can't realize that with the films it's the same way. It's yet another vision of Batman adding to the character's already rich history. Every Batman movie released thus far is faithful to the comics in their own regard. Whether people want to admit that or not on the other hand is a different story. Since most people agree that Begins was damn good and the sequel could end up being the best Batman movie ever I won't even get into it. Instead I'll elaborate a bit on how the older movies were respectful to the source material in their own right. Tom Mankiewicz wrote a Batman script that took a lot of elements of my all time favorite Batman comics. It was a fun script but ultimately I'm glad it got turned down in favor of what we got. I am a fan of both comics and film and because of that I don't want to always see direct translations of things I'm already familiar with, it's boring because you're already familiar with it. I prefer to see something new be done with the chatacters while still mainting the essence of the mythology. I know a lot of people know that Burton doesn't read comics. However he did read Batman comics before making his film. Unless Michael E. Uslan (exec producer on ALL Bat movies and Batman geek) is lying through his teeth. He said that he had given Burton Detective Comics # 29 - #39. If you need an example to back this up the descent into mystery scene with Batman and Vicki driving to the Batcave is exactly like Batman driving Julie Madison to safety, Julie questioning him and Batman remaining absolutely quiet throughout the ride. Burton seemed to like the silent era & pulp fiction elements of those books and that's why Keaton's performance is mostly reliant on his eyes like a silent film performer's. That's why Batman is more of a silent, vigilant & menacing brand of justice than a heroic one. He embodies the Bat-Man as opposed to Batman. You know the version of the character that also killed if he felt he had to. Jack is not Jack in this movie, he was The Joker. OK I love the ultra sadistic Joker we have gotten with The Killing Joke (which was still very fresh while the film was in production)especially post-No Man's Land. But let's not full ourselves here and say that Jack did not embody many elements of The Joker. If you honestly believe that then you need to brush up on your Joker history. When I see that film I see the theatrical sociopath from the early 1940's appearances who announced his crimes via public media who re-emerged in the 70's. Mixed with the prankster who came after that version in the 1950's & 60's, with a dash of the more sadistic 1980's Joker sprinkled in there. Sure he sounds like Jack Nicholson but I hear elements of Ledger's natural voice in his Joker voice, does that make him any less Joker? Vicki Vale? in this film just an amalgation of both Vicki Vale and Silver St. Cloud (from the Englehart/Rogers tales). Other homages paid to the comics include visual references such as The Joker falling to his death, Batman aiming and firing from a plane, Batman swooping into a chemical plant with his cape spread in the background, The Joker wearing berets and applying flesh make-up etc. Of course not everybody knows that Burton wanted this to be a stand alone film (hence the dramatic change of the Wayne's murderer) but that was the case. However the film was a massive hit and WB wanted him back. Burton doesn't like making sequels and the only incentive they could use to get him back was more creative control, henceforth we get Batman Returns. A film that because of it's operatic nature and tribute to German Expressionism remains my favorite of the bunch strictly as a fan of film. Burton reinvented a character who in my opinion is the lamest rogue in history who prior to the film was a complete joke and has only gotten better in the comics after this flick & the animated series were released, I'm of course talking about The Penguin. The way he added tragedy and pathos to that character was admirable and a nice reinvention. Catwoman was in a league of her own, if this movie did one thing is that it nailed the Batman/Catwoman dynamic perfectly. Even with the changes it made it was still faithful to the comics. It had the tone of a lot of the darker late 80's early 90's Batman tales that were around before the movie. It also had visual references just like the previous film (Ie: The Penguin's helicopter umbrella). I think even Stevie Wonder could see how influential the late 40's and 50's sci-fi lighthearted Batman adventures & the Batman characterization from the 70's were on Batman Forever and the 1960's campy tales were on Batman & Robin. Another thing I feel that is missed by people is the narrative structure the movies have. They may not beat you over the head with them like Begins does but they do exist. Here's Bruce Wayne's arc BATMAN - Bring his own brand of justice to a hopeless city. Once he finds out the villain is the same dude who killed his parents however it becomes straight up vengeance. The reason Batman blows up the lab and becomes so relentless by the third act is because he has now snapped. He wants The Joker dead by any means. This begins his path to darkness. Batman Returns - By this film Batman has been consumed by his darkness to the point that all he does is wait for the signal to come up and take down crime in any manner he can. The ruthless dude who has been consumed by his demons from the third act of the previous film is very much in the first 2 halves of this film. Hence how violently he dispatches of the circus gang. It is not until Bruce sees a reflection of himself in Selina at the masquerade ball (where even though they have no physical masks they are still wearing masks) that he realizes the errors of his ways. When he sees how much hatred she has towards Shrek and how she has entered a path of darkness similar to his own just because she was driven by vengeance he finally sees a true reflection of what he has become. It was basically him looking in from the outside finally. That's why after that particular scene he tones it down. It's also why he tries to save her as redemption for both herself and redemption for himself as well because he prevented what happened to him to happen to her. Of course he's not successful because she rejects him. He holds onto hope (when he gets out the car) but realizes that things have to be the way that they remain. Batman Forever - The guilt of not saving Selina plus the guilt he feels for his parents' death is what drives him to keep being Batman during the first half of the film. He is a lot more heroic in his ways this time around and not as barbaric as he once was thanks to Selina and the self reflection he had but he's still greatly consumed by his demons. Matter of fact he's fully consumed by them, the Batman persona is all that matters and Bruce Wayne is now a complete afterthought as opposed to a part of him. He receives therapy for this then he sees another reflection of himself when he sees Dick Grayson's family get gunned down by a maniac like his family did and then he sees Dick's reaction to all this. It's why he takes him in, it's another chance for redemption in his eyes. He notices Grayson has the same anger he once did and wants to kill the murderer of his parents. Bruce lets him know (in one of the film's truly best scenes) that killing Two-Face won't resolve anything. The whole "you keep looking for another face, and another and another..." thing was in reference to his development from the third act of BATMAN through the first 2 acts of Returns. By the end he realizes his parents death wasn't his fault, because of that he realizes that now beng Batman and Bruce Wayne is a choice he makes and not an obligation and both aspects of his persona could co-exist with each other. He also succeeds in the sense that his values didn't allow for Dick to kill Two-Face thus he is now both redeemed and "cured". Batman & Robin - Because he is no longer consumed by his demons and "cured" Batman/Bruce Wayne is a lot more lighthearted than he ever was. Doesn't excuse the quality of the film but it's there. Also as I said every interpretation is a valid one this one is no different. Believe it or not there is somebody out there who enjoys rewatching this film. I'm sorry for the long post but I felt it was necessary since I usually get sick as a fan when I see these civil wars between Batman fans. I mean neither side is right and at the same time neither is wrong so you guys are just gonna go on and on forever with no resolution. If anything as a fan I'm grateful that Batman is so damn diverse and could be interpreted in so many ways not just in the comics but also in the films. It allows this franchise to do things other superhero franchises (save Superman) just can't do, reinvent itself every few years under the creative direction of a new director. When you realize that you realize just how truly lucky Batman fans are. We got a movie representing each era so far and there are even many more to come so in the end every Batman fan will have "their Batman" captured on celluloid. For the record my favorite overall film is still Mask of the Phantasm. But I love the other films as well because in their own ways they're each very credible as Batman movies. Also when people talk about Batman not doing detective work in the live action joints I have to ask, what? Batman cracked the mystery behind the Joker's smilex in the original, Batman discovered the true intentions behind the Penguin's actions in the sequel. In both of those movies he had files that he used as to help him in his cases. In Forever he figured out the scheme that Nygma was up to and cracked his riddles. In the fourth he figured out who Mr. Freeze really was and what him and Ivy want to do. In Begins he listens in on conversations, searches and spies on people's homes and has a file on each member of the GCPD as well as figures out who is legit in the city and who is not with detective work. OK granted it's not an element that has been fully explored in the live action films yet. However that element is still there it's not non existent like so many wish to insist. You'll probably see me in future Batman talkbacks but until then, peace be with ya.

  • July 30, 2007, 7:17 p.m. CST


    by the_ro_show

    From his introduction in 1940 until his "origin" in 1951, there was nothing that stated The Joker's face was anything other than makeup. It was also these first stories that defined the character as most fans like to see him - sadistic, homocidal maniac. Since the question of whether it was disfiguration or makeup plays absolutely no part in his development as a character, it stands to reason the "purist" should not care less which one it is.

  • July 31, 2007, 6:23 a.m. CST

    Holy Shit David Cain

    by just pillow talk

    Tip:<b> < b > <b>remove the spaces and you can break paragraphs...

  • July 31, 2007, 6:25 a.m. CST

    Fuck me

    by just pillow talk

    that should be a < p >

  • July 31, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    I am batman

    by Lost Prophet

    No you're not. You are obviously the unlamented moviemack.<p>BTW a purist is someone with clearly defined tastes but anorak level sensibilities. See ringwearer 9 (or a mirror) for examples.

  • July 31, 2007, 8:44 a.m. CST

    David Cain

    by RockLobster800

    really nice post-great interpretation of a story arc for the first Bat series though (you almost had me thinking that there was a reason for B nd R to be as stupid and campy as it was). However, Ive never looked as Forevr as a continuation of Burtons series due to the basic redesigns of everything (especially Gotham).....

  • July 31, 2007, 1:09 p.m. CST

    David Cain

    by TruPhan

    That's probably the first level-headed post I've come across in these talkbacks for some time. I wish more talkbackers were like you.

  • July 31, 2007, 4:57 p.m. CST

    scarred by chemicals vs face paint

    by Goodbar79

    Holy shit! u posters are really upset with this whole thing! Take a chill pill people. This is nothing like "flames on opitmus". Transformers wasnt trying to be real like BB. THATS THE POINT!! REALISM Id invite any reader/poster to explain how they can make his hair green, lips red, face white & his HUGE smile REALISTICALLY!!!!! There is no way to stick to the origin story and make it beleivable. Personally i like that hes done it all to himself....makes him even more fucking crazy!! Seriously to cut a smile in your own face and think your a clown...awesome Love his voice too...cant wait till next summer. oh and fuck all you haters your gonna eat your words come July 08 peace

  • Aug. 1, 2007, 6:31 a.m. CST


    by David Cain

    <p>I could see why you'd think that due to the differences in the productions. But the Batchlers (the writers) have stated in the past that they deliberately expanded on what Burton started with Bruce Wayne/Batman in the other film. When Akiva Goldsman re-wrote their draft that theme stayed intact.</p> <p>Not to mention there are other references to those films ("or do I have to wear skin tight vynil and a whip?" "I don't have much luck with women" and of course Michael Gough and Pat Hingle returning as Gordon and Alfred.</p> <p>just pillow talk thanks, I'm not too familiar with the talkback format and didn't know how to break paragraphs. I assumed it was automatic.</p> <p>TruPhan thanks a lot man, I just hope people realize how silly it is to put down the other Batman movies just because BB is more reflective of the modern day Batman. There is no reason why there has to be only one specific interpretation of the character on screen especially once you consider his comics history. I enjoy Burton's movies, Nolan's BB and Schumacher's Batman Forever all for many different reasons. As a Batman fan I'm just glad that there are so many options available</p>

  • Aug. 2, 2007, 12:59 a.m. CST

    A midget as Batman, why not a redneck as Joker?

    by cyclo

    As if watching Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman tower over puny Christian Bale wasn't bad enough, we now have a redneck Joker. This really sucks.

  • Aug. 2, 2007, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Wait Cyclo

    by James Westfall

    He's not just a redneck Joker - it's a Brokeback redneck Joker! With lipstick and a mullet!