Hey, everyone. ”Moriarty” here. Okay... this is really an excuse for you guys to have a talkback to discuss, dissect, and otherwise absorb this week’s big book release. You should discuss it all right here. Quint and I talked about it earlier today on IM: [Beware of spoilers! Read only if you've finished the book!!!]
MoriartyAICN (3:46:19 PM): You're the bigger POTTER fan of the two of us. MoriartyAICN (3:46:29 PM): So this was a big deal for you. AICN Quint (3:46:48 PM): Totally. Especially coming off of Half-Blood Prince, which I adored AICN Quint (3:47:05 PM): I think Rowling knocked it out of the park AICN Quint (3:47:21 PM): I have some pacing issues, but even those are minor AICN Quint (3:47:38 PM): What about you? MoriartyAICN (3:48:01 PM): I think that, having read the entire series now, it's obvious she had a plan, and I think the series is pretty great. MoriartyAICN (3:48:12 PM): It's a heck of a finish. MoriartyAICN (3:48:23 PM): This book kind of shatters the formula POTTER fans are used to. MoriartyAICN (3:48:25 PM): And I like that. AICN Quint (3:48:32 PM): Dude, I wanted that with Order of the Phoenix AICN Quint (3:48:39 PM): one of the reasons I was let down with that book MoriartyAICN (3:48:57 PM): I like that she used that formula to get you used to a rhythm of storytelling, and then with the last two books, where it really mattered, she sort of threw that formula out. MoriartyAICN (3:49:01 PM): Less so with HBP. AICN Quint (3:49:04 PM): because it set up this big wizard war in Goblet of Fire and then in Order it was the same old, same old MoriartyAICN (3:49:09 PM): But even that one goes some pretty crazy places. AICN Quint (3:49:42 PM): I can look back on it now and realize she was really setting up the beginning of the end for the Ministry MoriartyAICN (3:49:56 PM): I like that she's painted a realistic portrait over the seven books of what life in wartime is like. The way rumors grow, the way the resistance takes hold... MoriartyAICN (3:50:10 PM): It's such a particularly English series. AICN Quint (3:50:12 PM): but at the time I was disappointed, thinking we were about to get a series of war books with magic elements instead of students playing with magic AICN Quint (3:50:21 PM): definitely MoriartyAICN (3:50:30 PM): I still shudder at the idea that Spielberg ever wanted to Americanize the films. Thank god that didn't happen. AICN Quint (3:50:37 PM): No shit AICN Quint (3:50:42 PM): I also have to say AICN Quint (3:51:13 PM): Seeing Voldemort in the thick of it for the entire book... made me realize how long it's been since we've had a great villain that was so powerful he could just step onto the battlefield and take part AICN Quint (3:51:30 PM): I think we're getting used to the "evil lurking in the shadows" or the evil politician thing MoriartyAICN (3:51:46 PM): Well, that's important. He's been gathering his strength, and if he didn't finally use it, that would have all been a waste of pages. AICN Quint (3:51:48 PM): He really stepped up to being a Darth Vader. He was on the ground and could fuck you up MoriartyAICN (3:51:57 PM): He's a genuinely horrific figure in this book. MoriartyAICN (3:52:12 PM): I am surprised by just how much death Rowling lays on her fans in this one. MoriartyAICN (3:52:30 PM): But thankfully, she's given her fans time to grown into the idea that this might happen. AICN Quint (3:52:32 PM): it's pretty crazy. Considering that a lot of it happens in other parts of the story MoriartyAICN (3:52:33 PM): And it counts. MoriartyAICN (3:52:45 PM): Every death is important, as it should be. MoriartyAICN (3:52:56 PM): Oddly, I was most upset by Lupin and Tonks. AICN Quint (3:52:55 PM): so she strategically placed them to hit Harry at just the right time AICN Quint (3:52:58 PM): or wrong time AICN Quint (3:53:00 PM): as it were MoriartyAICN (3:53:04 PM): The idea of them leaving behind a newborn. MoriartyAICN (3:53:08 PM): That really upset me. AICN Quint (3:53:18 PM): yeah. It made a lot of sense and honestly... AICN Quint (3:53:44 PM): when Lupin made Harry godfather to Teddy... that's when I knew he'd live AICN Quint (3:54:04 PM): Harry would, that is AICN Quint (3:54:28 PM): because he'd get a chance to be what he wanted Sirius to be for him AICN Quint (3:55:36 PM): I'd also note that I tried to avoid as many spoilers as I could before reading MoriartyAICN (3:55:51 PM): I knew nothing going into this one. AICN Quint (3:55:50 PM): but some douchebags out there were bound and determined to ruin it for everybody MoriartyAICN (3:56:07 PM): Yeah, I have to say... MoriartyAICN (3:56:14 PM): I am starting to hate a percentage of fandom. MoriartyAICN (3:56:25 PM): Or I should say "fandom," since I don't htink they're really fans of anything. MoriartyAICN (3:56:54 PM): I think there is a concentrated core of total fucking scumbag dickless assholes who seem to see other people enjoying something, and all they can think to do is try to ruin it for them. MoriartyAICN (3:56:57 PM): It's mystifying. AICN Quint (3:57:02 PM): there have been talkbacks for weeks in completely unrelated talkbacks leaving subject lines like, "Congratulations on the Wedding, Harry!" and then the body is just a checklist of who dies on what page AICN Quint (3:57:14 PM): yeah, that's what I'm talking about MoriartyAICN (3:57:18 PM): Oh, man, I've missed all of that. AICN Quint (3:57:28 PM): I avoided them MoriartyAICN (3:57:34 PM): But I know there were videos again of people spoiling outside POTTER gatherings. MoriartyAICN (3:57:51 PM): And honestly, those people are the worst kind of thugs. Just shit. They're beneath contempt. AICN Quint (3:57:56 PM): but in avoiding I also saw the very begging... so I knew a couple deaths going in, which sucked MoriartyAICN (3:57:59 PM): It's one thing to ruin an adult's enjoyment of something. MoriartyAICN (3:58:06 PM): But to intentionally ruin it for a child? MoriartyAICN (3:58:24 PM): You've got to be a sociopath, and I don't use the word lightly. You should be thinned from the herd if that's the way you amuse yourself. MoriartyAICN (3:59:04 PM): I think it's pretty great that kids have been taken on this ride over the course of seven books. AICN Quint (3:59:12 PM): It's unique MoriartyAICN (3:59:20 PM): I think the good that Rowling has done for literacy in general is immeasureable. AICN Quint (3:59:22 PM): I love that this series has been able to grow up with its readers AICN Quint (3:59:29 PM): no one can read this 7th book and call it a kids book MoriartyAICN (3:59:32 PM): Even when I was a kid, I can't think of any one series that mobilized this many people to read. MoriartyAICN (3:59:45 PM): No, it's certainly not. AICN Quint (3:59:44 PM): There's torture, brutal deaths, some heavy ideas about choice and self-sacrifice MoriartyAICN (3:59:54 PM): I love Mrs. Weasley's ALIENS moment. MoriartyAICN (4:00:12 PM): And Ron basically says "fucking" at one point. MoriartyAICN (4:00:28 PM): The characters have grown up quite a bit. In subtle and not-so-subtle ways. AICN Quint (4:00:28 PM): haha, yeah. that was great. and a totally excusable way to have a good guy use lethal force AICN Quint (4:00:37 PM): yeah, "effing" was all over the book AICN Quint (4:01:02 PM): But, I have to say. In the last couple of years I've been lucky enough to have traveled all over the world AICN Quint (4:01:22 PM): and the one constant... when money is different, language is different, culture is different, the one constant I've seen is Harry Potter AICN Quint (4:01:24 PM): It's global AICN Quint (4:02:21 PM): In Prague they had Potter marionettes, in Spain Potter was on ice cream shop windows, in London it's even crazier for Potter, in Serbia, a culture that is only a handful of years out of communist control, Potter was all the place MoriartyAICN (4:02:41 PM): With the first book, I think the appeal was the same appeal that the first STAR WARS tapped in '77. "I may be ordinary and live in the back end of nowhere and I may feel trapped, but I think I can be part of amazing things, and that there is a destiny for me out there." MoriartyAICN (4:02:48 PM): Basic wish fulfillment. MoriartyAICN (4:02:53 PM): But I think it's become something else by the end. AICN Quint (4:02:58 PM): it's a movement AICN Quint (4:03:07 PM): it's really connecting people MoriartyAICN (4:03:09 PM): By now, the main push of the storytelling is the drive to maturity that we all have to face. MoriartyAICN (4:03:17 PM): Forget any of the magic. AICN Quint (4:03:26 PM): kids and parents can both enjoy and discuss. MoriartyAICN (4:03:33 PM): It's the notion that we are faced with choices every day... big ones and small ones... and each of them adds up to who you are. MoriartyAICN (4:04:10 PM): And sometimes, we aren't who we appear to be because people don't know every choice we've made or why. The chapter where Harry sees Snape's memories in this one is sad more than anything. AICN Quint (4:04:26 PM): the strong through-line of how important true friendship is probably my favorite message of the series MoriartyAICN (4:04:28 PM): Snape is sort of pathetic and yet sort of brave and yet sort of loathsome... MoriartyAICN (4:04:50 PM): Well, you and I have talked about what friendship is worth many times. AICN Quint (4:05:04 PM): yeah, and how snape was pretty much "See me." It wasn't just to give Harry the information he needed for his final confrontation with Voldemort, but I do genuinely think he wanted Potter to understand him MoriartyAICN (4:05:16 PM): And I know you. I know what kind of person you are. I can see why the messages in the book would really resonate with you. AICN Quint (4:05:30 PM): Friendship is really important to me AICN Quint (4:06:20 PM): I have a lot of friends, people I like and talk to regularly, but there's really only a small core that I trust implicitly and I think I'm stronger for them MoriartyAICN (4:06:28 PM): I like that there are many mistakes made between the friends in these books. In this last one alone, there are some huge ones. That's important. MoriartyAICN (4:06:41 PM): Because forgiveness and understanding and empathy... those are parts of real friendship. MoriartyAICN (4:07:07 PM): As long as you know... REALLY KNOW... that the other person has your best interests at heart... there's little that you can't overcome. AICN Quint (4:07:23 PM): Agreed. And I love that the huge rifts in this one are helped by the horcruxs AICN Quint (4:07:34 PM): so it doesn't feel forced when Ron goes batshit MoriartyAICN (4:07:55 PM): I like that there are moral messages from the first three STAR WARS films that rattle around inside a generation, and the same is true of other things I grew up with, like Jim Henson's work... and I hope that much of what Rowling obviously values makes its way into the daily lives of her readers. AICN Quint (4:08:08 PM): and if the horcruxs bring that kind of anger to the surface, it makes so much sense why Harry's been warring with anger his whole life MoriartyAICN (4:08:17 PM): Yep. AICN Quint (4:08:33 PM): he has literally been warring with himself MoriartyAICN (4:08:44 PM): It seems like most of the hardcore readers figured out a lot of this one ahead of time through simple logic. "Harry is a Horcrux." Well, duh. MoriartyAICN (4:09:14 PM): But there's a difference between "obvious" and "inevitable," and I think Rowling has been writing towards the inevitable for a while now. AICN Quint (4:09:41 PM): the glimpse we get at the very end of the book show Harry has calmed, is untroubled. I think Voldemort ended the war. I love that Voldemort kills himself. He doesn't mean to, but he takes every single opportunity to fuck himself over AICN Quint (4:10:31 PM): yeah, if the plot point is earned, then it doesn't matter if you see it coming or not AICN Quint (4:11:07 PM): I've been seeing it coming for 3 books that Hermione and Ron were going to get together, but that didn't stop me from being happy when they finally kissed MoriartyAICN (4:11:30 PM): Yeah. It's a great kiss, and the director of that last film better make it the moment it should be. AICN Quint (4:11:29 PM): I've seen it coming that Snape was the tragic hero of the series, but that didn't make me not enjoy his arc MoriartyAICN (4:11:36 PM): That last film is the biggest challenge of the series. AICN Quint (4:11:47 PM): dude, just reading it... I don't know how they're going to do it MoriartyAICN (4:11:54 PM): Good luck to whatever poor bastard gets that job. AICN Quint (4:12:34 PM): It either has to be two movies or they'll pare it down and leave out the closing arcs to so many characters... or it'll just feel rushed AICN Quint (4:12:57 PM): I liked Order of the Phoenix (the movie) a lot, but I can't deny there is a rushed feeling to it MoriartyAICN (4:13:10 PM): Yeah, I don't think they needed to make GOBLET OF FIRE two films, but I think they HAVE to take the time to get DEATHLY HALLOWS right. AICN Quint (4:13:10 PM): I'd hope that doesn't happen in Hallows AICN Quint (4:13:26 PM): yeah, there's a lot of fat on Goblet of Fire AICN Quint (4:13:32 PM): here, the action is lean and mean AICN Quint (4:13:36 PM): from page one MoriartyAICN (4:13:43 PM): Y'know what really surprises me about this series? The most adult thing about it, and perhaps the single most important subtext... MoriartyAICN (4:13:45 PM): Race. AICN Quint (4:13:50 PM): you know this is the end game and that every single piece is important MoriartyAICN (4:13:56 PM): And that is not something that children's books typically deal with. MoriartyAICN (4:14:17 PM): Yet, here, it's part of every conflict. The entire reason for the war is the notion of "purebloods" and "racial purity." MoriartyAICN (4:14:35 PM): It's frightening because we know... this is exactly the sort of shit that makes entire nations crazy. MoriartyAICN (4:14:47 PM): I like that the war isn't about some magic rock or some mythical throne. MoriartyAICN (4:15:03 PM): It's about wanting to erase everyone who is different, who is lesser, who is "unworthy." AICN Quint (4:15:31 PM): well, the entire concept of rising to power by confusing the masses and preying on their buried racism isn't new, but you're right. It's not usually dealt with in a series like this, at least not as overtly MoriartyAICN (4:18:04 PM): So tell me the truth... MoriartyAICN (4:18:13 PM): Do you think we've seen the last of the Potterverse? MoriartyAICN (4:18:18 PM): I know this series is done... MoriartyAICN (4:18:37 PM): But do you think Rowling will be able to resist the urge to ever peek back in on these characters? AICN Quint (4:19:01 PM): She was staunchly opposed to it in all the years leading up to it AICN Quint (4:19:07 PM): but even now she's saying there might be more AICN Quint (4:19:36 PM): I honestly don't want to see another series with adult Potter or little Albus Severus Potter AICN Quint (4:20:15 PM): I think the 7 books are great for what they did for a whole generation of kids, kind of held their hand and guided them into adulthood AICN Quint (4:20:35 PM): I'd love to see what else Rowling has up her sleeve AICN Quint (4:20:54 PM): that said, I couldn't resist picking up another Potter book she wrote, so I'm just a big hypocrite MoriartyAICN (4:21:38 PM): Yeah, I'm really curious about her as a writer away from the series. MoriartyAICN (4:22:05 PM): I think she's grown quite a bit as a writer in the last decade. This is, just on a technical level, so much more accomplished than PHILOSPHER'S STONE. AICN Quint (4:22:16 PM): yeah, definitely MoriartyAICN (4:23:22 PM): Alright... so closing thoughts... it's finally over... what last feeling are you left with as you look at the book on your desk, closed and completely read at this point? AICN Quint (4:27:42 PM): I think as a final book it really is everything I was hoping it would be. I love how it does come full circle. Harry leaves Privet Dr. just as he arrived, etc AICN Quint (4:27:54 PM): I think the drawing to arms moment is incredible AICN Quint (4:28:50 PM): the battle at Hogwarts is epic, really mindblowing and involves characters with 7 full novels of baggage, so you really do feel invested MoriartyAICN (4:29:40 PM): If I have any complaint, I felt like the Malfoys were sort of marginalized in this one, and I wish there had been more concrete resolution with them realizing just how little all of their evil had gained them. AICN Quint (4:29:40 PM): I'm happy with the ending. I'm sad that it's an addiction without another hit on the horizon, but I think Rowling has kept the series her own. You don't get any feeling that she compromised at all AICN Quint (4:29:49 PM): and she told this story as she wanted to tell it AICN Quint (4:30:17 PM): yeah, I can see that. they were very much in the background AICN Quint (4:30:46 PM): You know... I think some of that would have been alleviated if it was Lucious who asked Potter if Draco was alive AICN Quint (4:31:12 PM): it would have been a stronger arc for him than for his wife, who we don't really know or care much about MoriartyAICN (4:31:41 PM): Yeah. As it is, Lucious is pretty much a non-entity in this book. AICN Quint (4:31:40 PM): but, yeah. I see what you're saying MoriartyAICN (4:32:43 PM): But a minor complaint. I think this is a really strong fantasy series, and overall, I think this is one of the best literary attempts to capture all of the stages of adolescence and maturity, all the frustration and joy and pain of it, and by taking her time, Rowling makes it all count. AICN Quint (4:33:24 PM): yeah, she earns her big moments AICN Quint (4:33:58 PM): and one thing I'd like to talk about before this is over MoriartyAICN (4:34:03 PM): Oh... and I wish someone had torn off Umbridge's head and shoved it up her own butt. AICN Quint (4:34:07 PM): haha AICN Quint (4:34:09 PM): that, too MoriartyAICN (4:34:11 PM): That also disappointed me. AICN Quint (4:34:21 PM): I was going, "Oh shit! Finally! This bitch is in for it!" MoriartyAICN (4:34:27 PM): Yeah, me, too. MoriartyAICN (4:34:32 PM): "Awwww, damn. She's in it now." AICN Quint (4:35:10 PM): but one thing I want to talk about that I really think separates this series from most other fantasy or episodic storytelling (this is, afterall, a story in 7 parts) AICN Quint (4:35:16 PM): is how she doesn't cheat AICN Quint (4:35:48 PM): Rowling kills someone, they're dead. None of this comic-book or soap opera shit where the dead come back AICN Quint (4:35:51 PM): when someone dies it's for real AICN Quint (4:36:29 PM): there might be hints of them left, as in real life, but she doesn't cheapen the characters by making their sacrifices or mistakes not matter AICN Quint (4:36:51 PM): dumbledore can't obi-wan it with harry... I love that she even kept Harry away from his portrait until the very end AICN Quint (4:37:41 PM): it really is down to Harry and what he chooses to do. she stripped him of those strongest around him, apart from Hermione and Ron AICN Quint (4:38:24 PM): and I don't think that's a bad thing to have... I still love LOTR even though Gandalf comes back AICN Quint (4:38:32 PM): I love Star Wars when we see Obi-Wan AICN Quint (4:38:53 PM): but there's something to commend about keeping the finality of death MoriartyAICN (4:38:57 PM): Yeah, I was afraid he's spend the whole movie talking to the portrait. AICN Quint (4:39:46 PM): I was starting to worry when the resurrection stone was brought up and the legend of the deathly hallows... that she was trying to create an excuse to give Harry help at the end AICN Quint (4:39:56 PM): because earlier on in the series, there's a whole lot of convenience AICN Quint (4:40:10 PM): but here it needed to be tight AICN Quint (4:40:27 PM): I love that Harry in the end uses the stone to draw strength, not to pull a ghost army out of his ass AICN Quint (4:40:31 PM): or something MoriartyAICN (4:40:38 PM): Or even to bring himself back. MoriartyAICN (4:40:45 PM): It's smart. AICN Quint (4:40:50 PM): yeah, that's what I thought it was going to be, actually AICN Quint (4:40:58 PM): because he had all the hallows AICN Quint (4:41:35 PM): but then throws that curve-ball of the relationship between a wizard and his wand AICN Quint (4:41:49 PM): so, yeah MoriartyAICN (4:41:54 PM): Yeah. She's careful about the rules she creates, and she sticks to them. AICN Quint (4:41:54 PM): she had many opportunities to cheapen out AICN Quint (4:42:04 PM): but didn't MoriartyAICN (4:42:08 PM): And there are places where she could have easily written herself into a corner. MoriartyAICN (4:42:18 PM): I know that you and I are both DARK TOWER fans. MoriartyAICN (4:42:25 PM): I think she nailed her ending in a way King didn't. MoriartyAICN (4:42:38 PM): As much as I like that series, I know why it makes many fans cry bitter tears at night. AICN Quint (4:42:37 PM): even the King's Cross chapter could have been really stupid, but she's able to cut through all that with that one line dumbledor has at the end when Harry asks if this is all in his mind or if he's in the other place AICN Quint (4:42:51 PM): and Dumbledore's like, "Of course it's your mind. Where else would it be?" AICN Quint (4:43:20 PM): well, it seems in Dark Tower 7 King's choice was to strip Roland of everything AICN Quint (4:43:24 PM): I love the end end to Dark Tower AICN Quint (4:43:57 PM): but King never had the build up to it and the Crimson King ended up being pretty weak sauce AICN Quint (4:44:17 PM): I wanted to see Roland and his ka-tet in a giant, epic battle AICN Quint (4:44:34 PM): Rowling gives us that release. It's been building for 7 books and we desperately needed it AICN Quint (4:44:54 PM): and King had been building for 7 books and didn't give us that release AICN Quint (4:45:04 PM): I love the series. I love what it means AICN Quint (4:45:26 PM): I love the thought behind the ending, but he made some poor choices, I think, leading to that ending AICN Quint (4:45:59 PM): it certainly wasn't what his audience wanted and Rowling I think is a bit more conscious of pleasing her audience with Potter than King was with Dark Tower MoriartyAICN (4:47:01 PM): Can't wait to see what King says about DEATHLY HALLOWS. MoriartyAICN (4:47:06 PM): You know he'll write it up for EW. AICN Quint (4:47:17 PM): and he's a bigger Potter nerd than anybody AICN Quint (4:48:13 PM): by the way... Kreacher... is the bomb MoriartyAICN (4:48:22 PM): Yep. MoriartyAICN (4:48:26 PM): Glad she left him in. MoriartyAICN (4:48:37 PM): Or convinced the filmmakers to. She was right. AICN Quint (4:48:42 PM): and just that small payoff at the end AICN Quint (4:48:57 PM): when he leads the Hogwarts house elves into battle AICN Quint (4:49:15 PM): THat was so great AICN Quint (4:50:25 PM): again, it's that layering. not just of the set-up and payoffs, but how she sets up Kreacher as being so despicable and then makes you love him a couple books later AICN Quint (4:50:28 PM): like snape MoriartyAICN (4:50:40 PM): Okay... if you want to keep chatting a little later, we can. MoriartyAICN (4:50:52 PM): But right now, I'm going to go jump in my pool with my family for a few. MoriartyAICN (4:51:20 PM): I'm glad you enjoyed it, man. MoriartyAICN (4:51:25 PM): I'm glad you're satisfied. AICN Quint (4:51:40 PM): yeah, it's hard to know if these emotional investments are going to pay off in the end AICN Quint (4:51:47 PM): there's been so much disappointment AICN Quint (4:51:51 PM): and fumbles AICN Quint (4:52:05 PM): but I'm a geek and I can't help but get attached to shit like this AICN Quint (4:52:12 PM): heh
