Cool News
SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL in development and a certain skinhead is coming back...
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. So, Bryan Singer's sequel to SUPERMAN RETURNS is moving forward. That'll be good news for a lot of people and bad news for others. I know the fanbase is divided on Singer's take on SUPERMAN RETURNS. I personally liked the movie, flaws and all. I think it was too closely married to Richard Donner's universe. I wish Singer had felt free enough to make a Superman movie that didn't fall plot point to plot point in line with the 1978 film. I want to see Lex really be an evil bastard, not someone who surrounds himself with idiots and wants more beachfront property.
At Comic-Con last year Singer promised his sequel to RETURNS would be more WRATH OF KHAN, something really big on the tension and action. I think that's smart. We all know Superman loves Lois. It's great, but I'm ready to see Superman really be put to the test.
Kevin Spacey will be back as Lex Luthor. I'd like to see a new villain, but I'd love to see Lex manipulating the situation. Not in the jokey way that Hackman did in SUPERMAN 2, but really be a bastard.
Michael Dougherty is scripting now and Singer will helm the project after the WW2 actioneer VALKYRIE and drama THE MAYOR OF CASTRO STREET. The idea is to go into production next year for a 2009 release.
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to say look it's the stories from comingsoon.net
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BUHHHHHHHHHHHET
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Tumbleweed passin' through.
_"_"_"@ -
I command it.
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...to actually make a comment on the article until the FUCKING STUPID PHONE INTERRUPTED ME! Motherfucker. Anywhoo....Man of Steel. Bring it on. Singer already proved he can...uhm...improve...on himself with a sequel. And I loves me som Luthor.
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...his stupid little Super Kid in it. That was the thing that bugged me about the first one. The piano scene was cool, but then I thought he has to be superkid in all the films that come..which could be crappy
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Both literally and figuratively. I hated Superman Returns. Hated it.
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...his plan in 'Superman Returns' was as dumb as a bag of hammers, but the 'villain singularly obsessed with killing superhero' thing is kind of played out. Hopefully he's not the Big Bad in this sequel.
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You're right! Singer and Dougherty ARE gay! Wow, you totally PWNED them!
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x-men 2 was a fluke. the usual suspects wasn't that greatly directed -- the script had more to do with it than anything else. everything else singer has made has so far sucked. keep him away from kicking superman in the junk and damaging him any further, please.
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then we know Superman will suck even more. I was so happy when he said he retired. Now, besides crappy actor, he is a lier. Wait, there is redundancy there.
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flopped Superman! It just didn't work for me. The cast were all wrong including Spacey and it really lacked the feeling of magic and wonderment and sci-fi the original has. I watched the Reeves version last night with my kid and although it takes a bit to get going(I love the first hour! he kept asking where Superman was) it has real charm and movie magic in spite of some creaky effects. Christopher Reeves owns the role! it just shouldn't work having a 6''4 PeterPan in blue and red spandex standing there as if it's the most natural thing in the world but it does and it's a real treat! The Incredibles for me is the most consistently good comic book film but it cribs a good few things from Superman. Singers effort looks slick but has no soul, I just couldn't believe in it. Hope he get's the magic right with the next one and maybee being a different story will help also ramp up the action and get a better Lois Lane.
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Yeah Bryan, you like working with Kevin Spacey, we get it - BUT FOR THE LOVE OF DOG INTRODUCE A NEW VILLAIN ALREADY! The bald one can hang out on his island for a movie or three, surely??
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GET A FUCKING CLUE WARNER BROS.!!!
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wasn't the fact he had a kid or the plot was weak, it was the fact that superman lifted a giant block of krptonite. Supes during an interview: "Yea I fought that rock. I kicked that rocks ass kryptonite and all. Fuck you faggoty krypto rock, u can suck my big hare superballs." Uhmmmm sorry snapple overload.
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but he sucked as lex luthor.... just proved that smallville has the best clark kent and the best lex luthor..plot stunk and he had clark with glasses as a child.. i know smallville is doing the superman mythos totally different but even they got that right
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he did kinda completely ruin superman tho. my goodness what a shitty shitty movie. worst casting decisions probably ever in life.
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Although I will admit, I would rather see a different villain in the next one.
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Singer made a big deal of showing the jagged edge of Kryptonite Lex stabbed Superman with. I see Lex trying to clone his own Superman, but fails, and Bizarro is created.
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BOOOORRRRRRIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!!!
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I thought the first 2 xmen movie
kicked ass. I thought SR was kinda weak. I have to admit though. The guy who played Supes was a dead ringer for the Reeves. Yet, I couldn't stand the chick who played Lois Lane.
Hopefully Singer redeems himself in the next flick, or at least goes back to making the X men movies. -
Spacey's retirement. Spacey announced about a month ago in the wake of the newman retirement, that He, spacey was closing the door on his film career, to concentrate on the running of his of his theatre. which has come in for some stick. Spacey's decision to quit screen acting came like a bolt out of the blue. and anyway I thought singer had dumped on Spacey by announcing that lex luthor was not coming back. weird.
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Rumor was two of your favorite shows was Farscape and Smallville If that is true... 1.Stay the FUCK away from Farscape (your supposed help with the funding of The Peacekeeper Wars was appreciated though). 2. After Singer is done paying tribute to his favorite films of the 80's (this time Wrath of Khan), get the franchise and do a Smallville flick. Seriously. Please. I'm beggin' ya. Smallville deseves at least one bigscreen shot. Jesus Christ why won't they accept the idea of a MODERN SUPERMAN???
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Jeebus. It's like it's 2006 all over again.
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Spacey claims he never said that and it was invented. That's what he says now at least. He's got a few films in the pipeline and lotsa theater, so we'll be seeing him for a while yet.
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...Usual Suspect WAS directed very well. Yes it did benefit from a great script and great actors, but who the fuck do you think puts the two togehter? Santa? X-men was good but X2 was freakin' insane. I admit Singer struggled somewhat with the start but by the time he got to nr2 he nailed it. And Superman Returns, although it was far from perfect, I liked a lot of it. Oh, and I got three more words for ya: APT FUCKING PUPIL.
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I watched it the other night too, first time in a dozen years or so, and you're right, it just works. Even with all the corny bits, it just works. That part where Supes pulls Lois out of the car and just sits there rocking back and forth and then screams out in pain and rage and flies into space. Wow. It honestly gave me chills.
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It just bored the crap out of me and my family. Nothing happened! All I can remember about it is some pissing about in a kitchen, and a big rock in the sea, but that's it. (Oh, that's not true, I remember one other thing: every character was completely and horribly miscast.)
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I agree, Usual Suspects was well directed. But have you seen Public Access? The cinematic equivalent of blue balls if there ever was one. I can go the rest of my life without ever seeing another seemingly random shot of a ceiling fan because Public Access filled my quota and then some. I watched it with 3 friends while I was in college and after it ended we all said, quite loudly, "WHAT THE FUCK?!"
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Re- invention is what's needed here.
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That was the ONLY decent scene Reeve gave as Supes. His Clark was a Kermit the Frog impersonation, and his Supes was cornball.
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Uhhhhh... HELLO??? THEY DID!!! *cough*SMALLVILLE*cough*
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she hot!
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Lauren-schuler Donner. There is no x-men4 in development and no script exists.
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Oh, it's Lex Luthor again. Damn, that rumble with Romper Stomper could have been a good one.Poor old Superman, he must get so bored of fending off Lex Luthor all the time. Batman and Spider-Man get all different nemeses each time they make a film, but there's Superman fighting baldie Lex for 14th time.
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Oh, it's Lex Luthor again. Damn, that rumble with Romper Stomper could have been a good one.Poor old Superman, he must get so bored of fending off Lex Luthor all the time. Batman and Spider-Man get all different nemeses each time they make a film, but there's Superman fighting baldie Lex for the 14th time.
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"Yea I fought that rock. I kicked that rocks ass kryptonite and all. Fuck you faggoty krypto rock, u can suck my big hare superballs."
LOL Thanks for the laugh dude -
Typos are more my kind of thing. Sorry about that.
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I suppose you could have Lex Luthor controlling Doomsday, but as they have just made it into a cartoon and it would completely go against the Doomsday type of character I doubt it.There is only one course of action that I can see BRING BACK NUCLEAR MAN! or better yet!! GLOBAL WARMING MAN!
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Good. Fox screwed that property up enough already.
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that is very odd. It was on Dark Horizons. and in several other places to. Spacey should watch his mouth. Ball of Smoke? could be who the hell knows.
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...a villain other than Lex Luthor! Superman has Bizarro, Brainiac, Parasite, Darkseid, Metallo...any of those would make a great movie, but what's the betting we get a remake of Superman II?
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should be buried. The worst comic book movie of all time, along with Batman and Robin and lot of others.
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Superman Returns defenders are the worst of the apologists.
There wasn't a single redeeming quality to be found in the entire film.
Get a real director who knows how to shoot epic action and will focus the story on Kal-El. -
as I was during Superman Returns...it was like Jurassic Park with just the veggiesauruses...boooooooring
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she hot!
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Superman Returns IS a good film, bordering on great. Buts its not a blockbuster, which is what people wanted, and it lacks real fire to it. Whereas the original Donner Superman is a tremendous blockbuster with real heart and fire.
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SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE SMALLVILLE...
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I'm willing to let Singer back again as director, but I can't believe that the Warners Brass didn't instantly put their foot down and tell Singer "No way those guys you like so much...perhaps too much...are writing the next one as well. No way they're even getting on the lot after the borefest they turned in the last time around."Seriously, yes, there were some bad ideas like the Kid, there's no denying that -- but the biggest problem with SR is that it's just a HORRIBLE script with absolutely NO sense of pacing to it. To this day I still can't understand how footage was coming in...or as they were screening it...that the Warners brass didn't turn to each other and say "Wow, this dialogue is flat as hell. Brandon LOOKS good, he's doing as good a job as he can -- for crying out loud, he's a clone of Chris -- but what he's being made to say is utterly garbage." Plot? WHAT PLOT was there to SR? It's got so many fucking story holes in it that you would write a film thesis on just how truly shitty that script was from start to finish.And for those X-MEN lovers out there, I'm sorry -- but the truth is X1 and X2 really don't hold up well with time. So the fact that its the same creative team coming back for round two on MAN OF STEEL isn't giving me a warm feeling all over.For crying out loud, when Singer says "I'm going to go all WRATH OF KHAN the next time out", I can barely contain my excitement. Oh really, Bryan? Does that mean in a 2 1/2 hour movie that this time I can look forward to your great writers actually putting in TWO action scenes? Oh boy, be still my heart!Yes, insert mocking eyeroll here...
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Why y'all gotta always gotta bring some gayconspiracy into anything Singer related? Jeebus. And the kid angle is the only thing intresting about Returns. As much as I'd rather see Smallville on te bigscreen, I'm a bit crious how Supes Jr. is gonna play out. But I'm willing to bet he'll go all evil. /yawn
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SMALLVILLE SUCKS ASS!!!!! It started out well and than just became total shit....real shit. Superman Returns was a terrible movie, melodramatic and filled with uneven performences and terrible pacing. They need to scrap Lex Luthor and use another villain
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The Variety article got it's news from that report from the producers of "Mayor" which Singers team later debunked by calling it "horseshit".
Singer is doing Superman after Valkyrie and Dan Harris is co-scripting...gotta say Variety is getting sloppy. -
Seriously, can we have a fucking Superman movie without Lex Luthor? He's an incredibly dull character and the Superman universe has enough villains to justify not including Lex in another film. I mean, come on, he's been in every goddamn Superman movie so far.
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I say screw the fears about more homages to Donner, bring back Zod and have a great flying superfight across Metropolos. Also Zod is the most believable super powered villain in Supes rogues gallery and following on from Superman II has the best story...plus Wrath of Khan...Wrath of Zod.
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Metropolos...Metropolis...damn spelling...QWERTY keyboards...my arch nemesis.
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Needed a complete reboot like Batman Begins. Where's the evil conniving big-business Luthor? That's honestly the Luthor I want to see. I guess Brainiac would be cool. Maybe he'll just do a shot for shot remake of Superman II for no reason at all.
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Instead of the Eifel tower there's a little kid.
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superdickery.com
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We find out that Brainiac crash-landed on the Earth at the same time as Kal-El. Brainiac wakes up shortly after the first movie. Brainiac decides that he wants to make Earth into Krypton. He unleashes millions of nanites into the Earth to literally start changing the planet. Then Brainiac starts using his Kryptonian tech on the sun to make it more like Krypton's red sun. Kal-El says ,"there's something awfully scwewey going on around here..." Supes then fights Brainiac in a protracted awesome battle. Then he has to save the Sun and rid the Earth of all the nanites before it does become Krypton and he becomes normal. (Thought that up over breakfast typing with one hand!) But no we'll get more *yawn* nappy time.
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I, for one, would like to see the man of steel take on Mister Mxyzptlk. Clearly, the role of the mischievous imp from the fifth dimension is perfect for Warwick Davis, who has shown the world that nobody can play murderous, naughty little buggers like he can.Think of all the comical shenanigans he will get up to - standing on Superman's cape, stealing Clark Kent's glasses, maybe even pissing on something, I'm not sure what. That little kid with the superpowers, maybe.Anyway, this is comedy gold, Brian Singer, and implore you to take it under advisement.
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This may be just my spider sense tingling but it seems that Shermdawg wants a Smallville movie. I may be wrong but that strong feeling is there.
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X-Men 1 and 2 and Superman Returns?
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give us brainiac, grod,metallo, bizarro...ANYONE ELSE!!!!!!!!
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well, can they?
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then you can turn the interest dial to 0. 0 as in I have 0 interest in seeing this film. Kate bosworth dont come back.
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From what I think:
-Singer wanted sentinels (giant robots) in the X-men (FOX) series.
-Tom Rothman (FOX): "There will never be a giant robot in any movie my studio makes"
-Singer leaves to make SR. Singer and Rothman have a quite public bust-up.
-During the writing of SR Braniac and a "Giant robot" (Metallo) were mentioned.
-Singer and co leave for Australia.
-Jon Peters stays in LA. People in the industry talk to each other (esp in LA).
-There was a "Problem" during the pre-prod/filming of SR. Singer goes to LA and comes back.
-In the SR videogame Metallo is a giant robot.
-SR is released with no Braniac and "Giant robot".
-SR does well but is no record-breaker due to a "lack of action".
-Now everyone is talking action for MOS. Braniac and Metallo are again mentioned.
Maybe the problem wasn't Singer... -
...I loved the little viral thing from a few months ago, with a Superman action figure and a Spiderman action figure, doing a parody of the Macintosh commercials. "Hello, I'm a DC." "Hello, I'm a Marvel." The Superman action figures says "they say I might actually get to fight a supervillain in my next film." FUCKING RETIRE LEX LUTHOR. Give Supes a villain that will actually present him with a physical challenge. And while we're at it, can we please just pretend the whole Son Of Superman thing never happened?
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and it came across on Supes:Returns. They should cast Jessica Biel as Lois.
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Without red sunlight or kryptonite to get around his invulnerability no, they can't.
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but where the fook is Brainiac?! Is he too much to ask? I would love to see a version of the character similar to the one in the animated series...not the pink leotard and green skin, but slightly more humanoid/machine like. A plot line of him arriving and Superman seeking him out as an ally only for Brainiac to show his true colours later, would be class....it has the potential for apocalyptic conflict AND a great deal of character drama as Supes is devastated to find he really is "alone" afterall....
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Of course X2 was better ... Singer got more time and money to make it. X1 was rushed and cheap, which made it easy to improve upon. But that's not the case with Superman Returns. He had lots of time and money. In fact, he's being given even less money for Man of Steel, because of how little the movie made at the box office. The only thing it's got going for it is that the major Marvel superhero properties are done for awhile, so there may be some pent up demand for a new superhero movie.
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Anyone read any of those? They'd perfectly adaptable.
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PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HAVE SUPERMAN FIGHT SOMETHING STRONGER THAN HIM! No more geological events. No more behind the scenes manipulators. I am talking real deal big scary super villain shit. A 50 story Brainiac would do the trick. And Lex Luthor and Brainiac could team up like they always do in the comic pages. I am actually advocating a team up in s comic book movie. It would just be nice to someone for Superman to fight. Loved SM2 with Zod and his crew but the Donner cut is great and still holds up, no need to retread there.
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Maybe they could squeeze him into the last ten minutes of Superman 3.
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why Superman, the most powerfull man in the Universe (sorry He-Man) has never fought a Super Villain but only a bald millionare with a slight ego problem. Of course he fought Zod (what a stupid fucking name by the way) and we can all forget about the nuclear man in A Quest for Peace. How come the producers don't look at other super hero franchises and see how colorfull the characters are there, the Batman films, Spiderman, X-men, hell even Hulk battles a super villain. Why do they need to have Luthor every fucking time?
Anyway. As for the kid. Here is a good idea for him. He becomes Doomsday, and the crystal/bone thingies that are sticking out of him are kryptonite crystals. Since they merge with everything they are shoved in to, Luthor (if they have to use him) can stab the kid with a bit of crystal and kid mutates. So that way we can get rid of the kid right away and have a super villain. Tah dah! Thank you. -
Opps, what I meant is do it like the Hilk. Replace them all and start nice and fresh. Singer's starting to think that these comics are like Shakespeare but it's really about heros and villians kicking the shit out of each other. Those who think different are just sissy fanboys (like Singer). And I'm getting reallt tired of that bald headed prick being the only villian in the Superman universe (at least where films and TV are concerned).
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It's over. The film was pants. I don't give a s**t about a sequel. I have no appetite for this. Not now. Not ever.
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Ice skating uphill here with you guys but I liked SR, still do.
Kate Bosworth's head is slightly too big though. -
OK, he's Superman's self-proclaimed GREATEST FOE," but enough's enough. I thought Luthor's presence as the lone villain in SR was what kept audiences away from the get-go (it opened well under predictions, remember, so mediocre-to-bad word-of-mouth wasn't all to blame). Was Nicholson in every damn Batman flick? Dafoe only did cameos in Spidey 2 and 3. OK, Magneto was cool in all three X-movies, but he's a genuinely powerful threat. Luthor's a BORE! People want to see Superman fight someone on his level, dammit!
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Haven't seen it reported here, but Variety reported a couple weeks back that Warners was VERY PLEASED with the script turned in by the Mulroneys...doesn't anyone think that Warner Bros might want to make an unbelievable pile of cash from a JLA movie starring Supes before letting Singer put him into another solo movie? A good JLA movie would certainly improve the odds of getting people burned by SR back into the theaters for a sequel.
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I must be the only person in the world to have loved SR. It might have been a nostalgia thing ( I'm 25 and too young to have seen the original at the cinema), but it was awesome to hear and see those titles, real hair standing on end sort of stuff. If Singer wants to carry on the franchise though we do need more action. Bring back Zod, have Luther on the sidelines but keep him there. Zod is Superman's Kahn so surely it's an obvious choice. Zod would be fucking pissed by now so it'd be a great fight. The Donner cut of s2 is fantastic, and his take on zod was proper evil.
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I can't believe they're letting Singer do a sequel. Absolutely amazing. I mean, that movie just sucked... it literally had no redeeming qualities... cast sucked (yes Spacey is good, but not in SR), script sucked, everything sucked. I'm still trying to forget they made that turd.
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didn't Zod die? Or at the very least he is still falling.....guess he could be alive still, pretty pissed off, and in desperate need of a parachute...WB, that was a joke!! Please dont put it in :( ah crap
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What scheme will it be this time? Maybe he will not be a Real Estate agent in this movie but an IRS Agent and Lex Luthor can have Clark Kent auditted for 2 1/2 hours.
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I jus hope these two team up with Lex Luthor. The brains and the braun....perfect.
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If they must? Just keep Bale the hell away! A JLA universe doesn't fit with Nolan's 'real world' type universe.
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1= This is great news I cant wait for it to happen
2 = Stop comparing Smallville to any of the superman movies, Smallville not only sucks balls it shits balls, then it eats them balls, then shits them out again, then it picks them up, sucks them and then shits them out again!!!! -
…repeat whatever you hear other people say about Superman Returns, "it sucked," "it was too much like the Donner films," etc. I just watched the movie (on Blu-Ray) for the first time since the theater. It is an excellent film! My only gripe is that there really was no intensely insane villain that could go blow-for-blow with Brandon Routh (no pun intended). The next film really should have a Doomsday* or Darkseid, someone who could really threaten Supes life, without using the standard Green Kryptonite. *I am not one of these lame-ass 90's fanboys who digs Gambit (remember the endless debates by geeks everywhere..."I think that Jean-Claude Van Damme should be Gambit in the new X-men movie...eeeeuuuugghghh..." or who loved the idea of 'Venom' in Spidey III either; I hated it, and I still don’t know why Rami decided to go with that idiotic storyline. I don't know if the Phantom Zone criminals would work - they were done too well in Superman II, in my opinion, and done too poorly in Smallville; bottom line on them is that they are over used. I hope that STMOS will be done with style and grace and for God’s sake, give us a fucking bad-ass villain!!!
“You will be different, sometimes you'll feel like an outcast, but you'll never be alone. You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father and the father becomes the son.” – What a powerful scene to end a ‘comic-book’ movie…
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Jul 11, 2007 7:32:27 AM CDT
Ooh, is the skinhead Ed Norton from American History X?
by rev_skarekroe
Oh. It's just Lex Luthor again.
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Does this mean Brainiac or Luthor will turn nasty? That the kid will die? That Superman will have a massive city-busting KAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHNNNNNN moment? I think so. As long as Bosworth disappers too then I'll be happy, Kidder would marmalise her.
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Just on general principal.
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If these movies didn't suck so much.
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I thought SR was pretty good. I still think the 78 film was the best but I thought II was very corny (esp with that JW Pepper guy out in the dessert). I won't even mention III or IV. I do concur that a basic rehash of the real estate plot was a poor choice but I thought visually it was executed well. One question though... In the original it made sense that if you dropped the coast of California into the ocean whats left would probably be fairly valuable (even though it would have taken decades to develop). In SR however, I saw no redeeming quality in that ugly landmass created. How would that thing have been attractive to anyone? Was Luthor just sitting there waiting for buyers? Ugh, world recovery from his plot would have probably taken a couple of centuries... That part was lame and didn't make any sense. I like the Mongul storyline--mayhaps they could do that next?
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The problem was that his part was so lame in SR. I loved Hackman's Luthor in the older films, but Spacey gave a much more intense character. There were moments where he was excellent, you were just waiting for that great line or killer blow, but it never came. Instead they just kept going with the stupid real estate scheme (WTF?) and when he has Superman helpless, he stabs him in the side and lets him drop. Um, how about stabbing him in the head with that Kryptonite dagger, so he freaking dies dumbass. Oh and I hate to use this line but, BULLETPROOF EYE = FLAMES ON OPTIMUS
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Because Marsden should be Hal Jordan. I'm glad they are finally announcing something, it's been death listening to that bitch Devin blast this franchise over and over again like it was as bad as Star Wars Episode One. I'm glad Lex will be back because nothing felt finished with him at the end of the last one. I'd also like him to be more menacing--he should be like an evil version of Batman sans the costume, he's a mad genius so let him actually be charismatic about it! The Clancy Brown voiced Luthor from the JLU is probably the best presentation of the character--even better than my long favorite Sherman Howard version who was more of a Joker-esque psychotic. I agree with liking the SR, but wishing the plot had not followed the Donner one like a road map. It was actually MORE sedate than the Donner version I thought because unlike the original we've got four movies already and this vision of Superman was new at the time. I don't dislike keeping track of that vision, but giving Supes a son isn't the new ground I'd like to see get broken.
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if the villain was Metallo, seeing as the flicks called The Man Of Steel? Cos then Supes is fighting another man of steel-geddit? Nah, I just want Brainiac...it woud be awesome-next year we get a Batman with the Joker and the following year we finally to see Brainiac on screen...bet ya James Marsters is sittin by the phone right now...
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He's such a terrible character, so ludicrously powerful that there's no drama in watching him do anything until they bring in the damn Kryptonite again. I would hate to have to write one of those things. Other than have him fight some huge monster, what can you do?Mind you, I liked a few of his films. Superman and Superman II, mostly, but I also have a soft spot for Superman III. It's got Richard Pryor in it, plus I liked Christopher Reeve's turn as asshole Superman, sitting in a bar with his super stubble and being a jerk to everyone. I even thought Superman Returns was pretty enjoyable. Lex Luthor's scheme didn't make much sense and Kate Bosworth was far too young, but I liked the bit with the plane and thought the 'Superman is lonely because he's an alien and doesn't have a real family' angle was well done. I felt sorry for the big doofus.Anyway, I look forward to Superman Vs Mr Mxyzptlk, which will take us back to the earlier, funnier Superman style.
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Jul 11, 2007 8:00:46 AM CDT
No, I'm sure Lex's plan will be completely different
by just pillow talk
Completely. Maybe he'll open up a convenience store and over charge customers. That'll teach the man of steel! Bastard!
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give that show a shot on the big screen. it can't do any worse than singer's version. hell, i'm sure it'll do better. especially on the home and foreign markets. an hour of smallville is more engaging than anything singer's done.
and apt pupil sucked balls. -
...and the first 15 pages are more entertaining than the entirety Singer's POS film. (Hooray for mediocrity and lack of imagination!)
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Kevin Spacey sucks. He plays the same smug, smarter-than-you douchebag in every single movie he's in. That equals "no range". I haven't been entertained by a Spacey movie since L.A. CONFIDENTIAL, and he was surrounded by serious fucking talent in that one. The last thing I want to see is another ridiculous turn as Luthor.
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Singer was attached to it for like three years before filming began. He might not of had a great budget to work with, but he had plenty of time.
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To quote you...
“it really lacked the feeling of magic and wonderment and sci-fi the original has. It has real charm and movie magic in spite of some creaky effects. “
“Singers effort looks slick but has no soul, I just couldn't believe in it. Hope he get's the magic right with the next one and maybe being a different story will help also ramp up the action”
The original I absolutely love every second, up to when Supes saves Lois in the copter, well except for Otis and and his theme music...after that scene I like certain scenes from that movie. but I still think his origin in that movie is the best of any superhero film.
As as SR, again you absolutely nailed it. I got many other gripes as well, they missed a lot of oppurtunities, but if I type them all out, I'll be here all day. -
Kahn better goddamned well be Zod however. And Terrence Stamp isn't too old to reprise the role of Zod--they could just play up the older general aspect of his character. Yes, I know that Metallo or Brainiac are more "classic" Superman heros, but they just don't do it for me. Also, I don't see how Singer is just going to suddenly stop aping Donner's version of Superman. And he's put a noose on the enitire franchise by introducing Supes' kid to the storyline.
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Darkseid, Mongul, Doomsday, Brainiac, Bizarro, Metallo, Livewire, Mr. Mxyzptlk...and all you can do is phone up Spacey again, who wasn't even good in RETURNS?!
Please say that you're going to San Diego Comic-Con this year so that thousands of geeks can throw unsold SUPERMAN RETURNS Lex Luthor action figures at you during a panel. Honestly, as pathetic as that sounds, you deserve nothing better.
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Loved SR.
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where did you get your hands on the script?I WANT IT!! Also they should give that Kevin Smith guy a chance at writing a Superman script...he seems to know a lot about comics and stuff...plus its not like he would do anything stupid ike bow down to Jon Peters every demand or add in comical robots called L Ron or anything...
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Agreed. What's this now - 5 out of 6 Superman movies with Lex as the villain (not even including the serials back in the old days). Personnally hoping for a Doomsday or Darkseid (or Lobo - why not). I'm surprised he's not rehashing Zod & Company. Reboot that franchise - have them wear SWAT gear instead of vinyl. RIIIGGGHHHHTTT. MEH!
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In the sense that he has no real visual style or flair for directing a big budget action film. Cameron, Proyas, The Wachowski's, Jackson, all have a flair for great visual style. Singer's films look dull by comparison.Also the fact that he does not know how to properly spend his sizeable production budgets baffles me. Bigger, Better, More Action Packed and SFX laden films have been released with budgets less than what Singer had to play with for Superman Returns.Del Torro spent 70 million on Hellboy and that shit looked better than the 2 Xmen films Singer directed (which had a look to them that flirted the line with Sci-Fi Original movies.)And before you Xmen "Stans" and Superman Returns apologists come out and get all defensive, you can't tell me that anything in his last 3 films looked great. Go ahead and tell me the Jean Grey fire in her eyes in X2 didn't look like some shit straight out of Xena? He spent 135 million on what exactly in X2?The Superman project fell victim to what happened with The Hulk. They were both unfortunately big budget joyless films that chose Drama over having a fun time. And even in The Hulk's case, that boring movie STILL looked better than any Singer movie.Fanboys need to stop giving this dude a pass because of the great Apt Pupil and The Usual Suspects. And IMO X1 was "Good" because we were all expecting a disaster. And X2 seemed like a masterpiece because when compared to the dull X1, it is a better film. But that doesn't mean they are GREAT films. Especially when you consider how much potential they both had to be excellent, classic action/comic films.
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That whole storyline is pure B.S. and should be avoided at all costs. Do you really want 4 new Supermen running around? As far as "dumb storyline gimics go" the Doomsday saga ranks right up there with that godawful Nightfall thing the Batman folks did a while ago.
Zod is a great bad guy--ruthless, mean, and totally badass. No, he doesn't need SWAT gear: just give him funky black space clothes and I'm happy. -
Yeah, I know, there are risks involved with following the template oft he first two movies a little TWO closely, but if you want to make Wrath of Kahn, the choice is obvious. Zod. And if you REALLY want to make Wrath of Kahn, you use Terrance Stamp. Dude has to be holding one HELL of a grudge after bring reduced to a mere mortal in Supes 2. Would explain why he's aged as well. All the pieces are in place.
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That's better than how lame Spacey was.
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... once I made peace with the fact that Singer was doing his Donner/Reeve homage thing, flaws and all. The kid is a problem (also, they should have called him Christopher); Lois is a problem; Lex should be less campy, but I'm sure Singer has a lot of good stuff in store. I think he's just warming up. I'd love to see a more modern, Alex Ross-based version of ol' Supes. That said, I think Smallville is terrible. The actors all look like porcelain dolls, the sets and lighting look incredibly artificial, Mark Snow's score is nothing but a monotonous drone, and the story never fascinated me. The Lex characters is obviously the more interesting one, but that's probably only because all the others are so dull. I don't like what it's doing to the Superman mythos and it's about time the show gets killed. I hope I don't offend any Smallville fans out there, but I simply can't stand it.
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if not, i won't see it. i reeeeeeeeally hope they show a hint of Darkseid. would totally rock like Biel's body.
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I can honestly see this flopping...real badly. They better not bring back Bosworth.
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Brandon Routh was good as Superman. The effects were great. The shuttle/plane rescue sequence was great. The return of John Williams' main theme was much appreciated. But sticking with Donner's universe meant keeping all sorts of bad things, as well as avoiding all sorts of good things that the other incarnations of Superman have brought about. The problem with Lex is not that he'd been used before, but that he's never been used right. In keeping with Donner, Singer completely ignored the vastly superior version of Lex as the ruthless corporate tycoon with an appearance of legitimacy about him. Lex would only kill those who get in his way; he would not murder billions when he could make billions off of them instead.
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I thought people knew that already?Its the fakest looking, badly written piece of crap on telly-I only tune in from time to time to see how theyve butchered the mythos this week. Worth watching for two reasons-Michael Rosenbaum(great actor)and Alison Mack (baa zing!)-why would Clark choose the terminaly dull, cant speak above a whisper Lana over Chloe-the hotter of the two? And EVERY week (almost) its just a freak of the week thing...oh a "meteror rock" (arent all meterors rocks-JUST CALL IT A METEROR!) landed on me when I was next to the kettle and now-IM KETTLE MAN!!! piece of crap-that said Erica Durance is a better Lois than Bosworth could ever hope to be....
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I defended Superman Returns through and through to my family and friends, but honestly, the more I watched it, the more I realized it did fall flat. I think the special effects were great, but the storyline and pacing definitely lacked. I think Singer spent too much time recreating an old storyline instead of creating something new and fresh. Even though it can be quite cheeseball at time, I do love Smallville and its fresh take on the Superman mythos. The acting has gotten quite good in the past couple seasons, so I think a Smallville movie was a missed opportunity. I hope for the next Superman film that the story line is better paced and I wish the overall visuals would be brighter and less dated looking. It felt like they were trying to give a nostalgic feel to a modern time period. I like Brandon Routh and think he is a fine actor and fits the role well, so I hope they captilize on that more next time. Basically, give me a modern day Superman that is not driven from a 70's version.
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Truly a bad bad bad movie. My wife (not a geek at all) just hated it. I (geek man) hated it too. It just made no sense whatsoever.
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another villain. I really liked the first film (even though it was flawed, much like Spidey 3). Bosworth was the weakest link. They should recast her just like they recast Katie Holmes.
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if it weren't for Supe 1 & 2. Singer's version didn't have much personality. And I liked Spacey as Lex - just tired of seeing Lex. And Doomsday would work nicely - without the whole post 4 new Supermen thing - which was ridiculous.
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was terrible. was it bosworth, or nicole ritchie - I can't tell anymore.
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I like your line, "They were both unfortunately big budget joyless films that chose Drama over having a fun time." That does kind of sum up Superman Returns. I don't mind drama, because I definitely prefer it to cheeseball that seems to infiltrate these type movies, but you still need that umph to get your attention and SR tried, but just didn't have it. I liked it, don't get me wrong, but for the budget it had, I expected a lot more.
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don't have an original storyline.Yo Frankie T! Ghostrider is shipping today. I'm bracing myself for the pain that will be forthcoming...
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What the fuck is up with putting Luthor in the next Superman movie? Jesus, he's been in four of the five made already! The Joker hasn't been in all the Batman films! Fucking kill off the character once and for all or go with new villains. Purely in terms of mythology and story in the Superman universe, you'd have to ask yourself what kind of a hero he is that he's allowed Luthor to stay alive all these years and keep coming back to wreak havoc. He should just waste his ass!
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He is a god. A benevolent deity living amongest us, trying to help us as best he can. He could just as easily be a tyrant. The only thing that prevents this is his upbringing, his values. There are great stories to tell about this dilemma. Superman sees injustice and pain all over the world, and has the power to stop it. But should he?
I'm not saying that the films should become trite political allegories, just that the scale of Supe's responsibility is incredible. He chooses to be reactive, only responding to events as they happen.
With this theme in mind his villains become more interesting. Just as Batman's are all reflections/perversions of aspects of Batman's character, so too can Supe's. Zod, for example, becomes the Anti-Superman, who sees a chaotic world and uses his power to submit it to his concept of order.
Brainiac seeks to bottle the whole world up, and can't understand the problem with that. Humanity won't be free, but they will be safe, preserved. Isn't that what Superman wants?
I dunno, this is just off the top of my head. It just seems to me that these films should be Epic. Superman's heroism should stem from his values, not from his super powers.
It just takes some one with a bit of vision to execute it properly on screen.
By concentrating on Supes himself, as opposed to some weak soap oera nonsense, you could build genuine drama.
I really think Singer's film has spoiled the franchise for a good while. I understand WB's desire to not have ANOTHER reboot off the heels of SR, but (outside of just making an action film) there doesn't seem to be anyway to salvage the films, without discarding huge chunks of story established in SR.
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was when I believe Superman was talking to Lois and she was saying he wasn't needed and his reply was something along the lines of, "why do I always hear them asking for a savior then?" Loved that little moment. I just think there is so much they can do with Superman and they need to really step things up for the next one. I didn't mind the kid angle, but I don't want that bogging down the next films. Superman needs a villain like Darkseid, where he can have epic fights with. He's never even hit Lex Luther before. Make him use his superpowers for something other than stopping rockslides and volcanoes and stuff. He needs to kick some butt.
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Bryan Singer proved he couldn't do Superman right.
He knew all the facts, he loved the franchise, loved the original movie.
Sadly, that just wasn't enough. -
Have it be a few years later... or have it where "superboy" is just hitting puberty. Don't make him an important character though. Have Lois be worn and burnt out, and not cute and glowing like Kate. Have Lex at his financial high point. Tease us with his interest in politics, but never go there.
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is Terence Stamp doing anything worthwhile these days - the guy is great.
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shes hot!
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But it's not. I will not see another Singer Superman film unless, in the trailer, Superman 1. punches a robot---2. lifts an armored car over his head---3.Uses his cape to shield Lois from lava.
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because Singer is as gay as a Christmas tree up the ass, and Spacey sucks a good cock.
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mix genres. An older Supes (early to mid forties a la Alex Ross) versus a Kirby villain like Darkseid.
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After Returns, I've had enough seeing the Superman character screwed over. I rather watch Superman 3 again than another Singer Superman
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With all that power and celebrity, you'd think he'd be able to get any girl he wanted - sixteen year olds and whatnot, probably whichever porn star he sets his sights on - but he continues to mope around Lois Lane. You can't blame her for taking up with that Cyclops guy, on account of Supes disappearing for five years without so much as a by-your-leave. What if Lois had fallen out of a helicopter or the Eiffel Tower during that time? She would have been fucked, that's what. Although, that 'Why the world doesn't need Superman' article was a kick in the balls. I think I would move on if my ex was using national newspapers to tell everyone what an asshole I was.Oh, and just pillow talk - I hope you like it, by which I mean I hope you get some laughs out of the absurdity of it all. I notice Amazon sent me Blood Diamond yesterday, so that ought to be waiting for me when I get home. I may even watch it if I can drag myself away from all the Woody Allen films I've been watching lately. I blame Spandau Belly for that.
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SR, felt like i'd seen it already only it was more boring this time.
oh, and the character of Lois, wasnt Lois at all. Lex is played out. Can't we get Del Toro in to direct with a Darkseid story?
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Strong work there V'Shael with the insane rant about Singer's lifestyle, that's exactly what was missing from a Superman talkback.
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I love Donner's Superman, I really do, although Superman II is far superior to it in every way. However, Donner's Superman has a TERRIBLE finale that makes absolutely NO SENSE. Before Superman spins the world back in time, the earthquake happens and a bunch of people are in peril (dam breaks, etc.). There's a sequence where Superman saves a bunch of people from the effects of the earthquake, then goes to find Lois. When he finds her, she is initially dead, which leads to him spinning the world back in time. After he turns back time, he flies back to Lois (pre-sinking) and is able to save her before she dies. But, what about the other people he saved before he turned back time? All those people are going to die now? After all, he ORIGINALLY saved THEM. So, basically, Superman is a selfish bastard -- he saved people from dying when he didn't think someone he loved was in danger, but when he realized someone he cared about had died, he turned back time to go save her INSTEAD of the people he ORIGINALLY saved. That is a huge problem for me and a major flaw with the film. Not to mention, Jor-El (Superman's dad) told him he could never, ever alter the history of Earth and he did so, anyway. Superman Returns, although flawed, is a very good film. It's 1,000 better than X-Men 1 & 2 (two of the most dull, lifeless, boring films in the history of cinema) and I'd actually go so far as to say it's as good or better than Batman Begins, which, to me, was just long and tedious. You wanna talk about ridiculous villian motives? Just watch Batman Begins -- ridiculous motives for the villians. As for Lex's motives in Superman Returns, what you people fail to understand is this: LEX IS CRAZY. INSANE. Sure, he thinks rationally sometimes, but at the end of the day, HE'S CRAZY. And, his plan wasn't to "kill everyone." If I remember correctly, he said he could TOLERATE death on a grand scale, but the rest of the population would 'need real estate' and so they would pay to live on his 'property.' It's not that ridiculous of a plot considering Luthor is CRAZY.
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with Gerard Butler as the Man of Steel (Alex Ross style) up against Darkseid. Seriously. Awesome.
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I believe they could ... assuming Superman was weakened by kryptonite. Or if they used some sort of kryptonite to pierce his skin and inject the nano-probes ... but then I would assume there would have to be some sort of kryptonite in those nano-probes to even begin the assimilation. & then that'd probably defeat the purpose because that would most likely kill him. So to answer your question I have no idea.
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The flaws of Superman Returns (because there ARE flaws, like I said) are the following: 1) BOSWORTH. Not a bad actress, but definitely didn't fit the part at all. I felt like I was watching Superman rescue his little sister. 2) Luthor does need to taken more seriously. Get rid of the jackass people he surrounds himself with. 3) Superman's kid. This was just stupid. They really should just forget this ever happened.
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it is mentioned that there was all out warfare going behind the scenes. Singer Who had signed on saying he didnt know the x-universe but got to grips with it pretty quickly in pre-production, Singer wanted to do a big budget spectacular but fox refused, that may have something to do with Titanic. Fox wanted to bring costs down and werent enamoured with the idea of having another Titanic on thier books. Then there was the problem called Halle Berry. Berry cant act for toffee. and moaned loudly about her lack of screen time. Singer was in constant battle with fox execs, to get a film that would make the fans happy. Look I liked the x-men films purely on the basis, i got to see to of the best English stage actors, of thier generations, perform on screen together. McKellen and Stewart were and are class. You will always have people to talk down movies, even hitch had that problem in the british stage of his career. The lodger was ripped to shreds by people who fell out with hitch but the press loved and the public did too. There will alway be people to carp at things. Look at x-3 some loved it and some hated it. I dont think fox got over the mauling Harry gave Rollerball. How did Harry get to see TPM before everyone else. That has never been answered.
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I sick to FUCKING death of Lex Luthor and his tired ways. We need a real and threatening villain for Superman. NO MORE LEX
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I IMMEDIATELY walked from the film when the son angle was used. What a joke.
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And here I go thinking someone would be upset at what I wrote, but it seems the general consensus on this talkback matches my disappointed opinion of the film.I think that instead of another Superman film, how about a Justice League film instead that ignores Superman Returns and just gets straight to the fun?Or just remake the whole damn thing in like 5 years?I think the stronger looking Lex Luthor (who looks like a Vin Diesel type) in the cartoon is probably the best, most relatable incarnation of Lex that there is today.People don't want to see the badly aging Spacey doing a poor Gene Hackman impersonation. People do not want to see Superman all depressed and unsure of himself. And I damn sure didn't want to see Superman get shived with a shard of Kryptonite.With regards to Batman Begins, I feel it was a pretty solid origin story/1st film. But for Part 2 the action had better be well planned out and staged/framed better so that it's easier for the audience to see.Moreover no more 3rd acts that fall apart. Since our bodies are made up of almost 75% water, that whole water evaporating machine thing would have killed everyone wouldn't it?Or did I just over think that plot point?
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Is the action climax for this one going to be Luthor kicking Supes in the lungs? I can't wait.
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Singer's rumored Casting Couch discovery Brandon Routh. He did a capable job as Superman. But they most definitely recast Bosworth with Rachel McAdams. That way they can get a good actress with some spunk who can actually do Lois justice. And by recasting Bosworth, they also free up budget money since they would no longer have to buy crappy Katherine Hepburn wigs.
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of Superman Returns. There was a sense of menace to him and it wasn't nearly as corny as the Gene Hackman version. I think the whole real estate scheme was just an excuse to get some revenge. He really just wanted to hurt Superman by killing innocents as well as people he cared for. Sure, the rich tycoon is the best incarnation of Lex, but if you're going to stick with the Donner universe then I think both Spacey and Singer did a damn good job with Lex.
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... You're the same guys who love Fantastic Four and Ghost Rider, am I right?
As for Justice League. Do you honestly think that Warner is going to take Batman and Superman (two of their biggest franchises), cram them into one movie, and in the process make less money? Dream on. This JL will contain nothing but B-list characters. Probably that band of losers from Smallville. -
and it seems like half the people that saw Superman Returns hated it, or at least won't be in line for a sequel. Going back to Luthor is going to keep people out of theaters, unless he is reduced to a very small supporting role. They'd be smart to save money on actors and dump both Bosworth and Spacey. I hope they don't spend all the fx money on a scene they cut from the movie again.
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ho about it...isn't it time we get some sorta crossover...legal crap aside..cant the lawyers work it out a little, and how come i havent seen this point come up before, hell if the fanboys can get a freddy/jason or a aliens/predator made by speaking up, where are the voices on this? even if its only 5 minutes, this would be 5 minutes of cinematic history...okay now everybody run with this!
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So, the movie's coming out in 2009? Great, that means almost two full years of stupid, immature gay jokes just like when Returns came out. What a great way to talk about a movie. BTW, I really like the idea of Rachel McAdams playing Lois in the new film. She'd be really cool in that role. She's more Lois than Bosworth would ever hope to be.
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The X-men flicks were wasted oppurtunities on a franchise that had the closest shot of Star Wars type success (if handled right) of anything out there. Rothman, and Berry fucked it all up. X1 sucked ass once Wolvie hit the hood of his truck, X2 was great, but still disappointing given them wasting Sabretooth in the first. I wish to god we coulda saw cwhat Singer had planned for his X3-X4 doubleshot, but...
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On X1...considering it came out before Spidey 1 hit the jackpot. I thought it did a pretty good introduction to the world of mutants, and I thought they got some of the characterization right. Could it have been better? Sure, but I thought it was a good first step. I thought X2 was great, but I can't disagree with anyone saying that it always seemed like everything was being held back. Like everything could have been a bit better, bigger, on a grander scale, without losing great characters/storyline. I do believe that if Singer did do X3/X4, we would have had something special, and it would have wiped away the missteps of FF, Supes, X3, Spidey 3.
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looked a little upset.
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Superman Returns was better that any sleeping pill modern science ever invented. Plus, if I sleep through it, I won't have to deal with whatever resolution they're coming up with to the "Superman's kid" angle, an idea so bad that even DC comics has been smart enough to stay away from it (so far).
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it was a perfect match to the old (and great!) donner films and giving it just enough update. Routh looked a bit young, lois could have been cast differently, yeah, and there was the moppet kid...but as a HUGE fan of the Reeve films (well, 1&2 anyway) I loved what singer did. the last thing i wanted to see was some redone modernized supercrap. the film though not perfect had the heart that made the donner films so good. when that music comes up i still get chills. CAN'T WAIT!!
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Singer sucks ass so bad. WHY is he in charge of ruining the next one? Let some other jackass, talentless director ruin it for Gods sake!
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I don't think you can ever make a great Superman movie because there will never be a moment in the movie when the viewer actually thinks Superman can lose. For instance, I can see a Batman movie where Batman gets his ass kicked and loses. It's like Empire Strikes Back, the good guys lost that movie. Seeing that happen, blew our minds. With Superman, we know he will never ever lose and that is a problem with today's viewer. We're not just wowed and entertained by seeing a guy in a cape fly on screen. Been there, done that. We need storytelling and we need to believe Superman can actually lose. Sadly, they've turned the villains in the Superman flicks into comic relief which is also a major problem. The way to save Superman is to kill him in the next movie. We need him to be dead at the end of the movie. Have us all ready to think he's going to win as usual and kill the big guy. You have to set this character/series on it's ear and that is the only way to make a compelling Superman movie at this point. Seeing Spacey has re-upped my hope for this next film is already dim. Eventually, WB will reboot this franchise and get away from the mistakes being made by Singer. Superman needed to be turned on it's ear and give the audience a reason to care about the character. Seeing Lois with his kid and another man didn't do the trick. Hopefully, they will at the very least re-cast Lois in this one or even leave her out. The mistake of Kate Bosworth as Lois might be too high to overcome in a 2nd film, especially since the last one while it plays on cable has proven pretty much unwatchable with the exception of the scene with the Jet.
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Jesus, he's so played out. Time for a new villain.
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some of the voice actors from the animated series? At least they got the characters right. I don't get why Superman has to be so campy and gay, I know he's not Batman, but can we put him in a serious world for fucks sake? Did anyone really want to see a literal remake of the old superman? Except throw in a superkid and make Supes a pussy, deadbeat dad. Where's Nolan or Bruce Timm, let's give them a shot at turning this franchise around.
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Don't assume that anyone who disliked X1 or X2 are idiots who must love the movies that you have deemed inferior. And for the record, I believe that the Fantastc Four movie was a retarded fucking piece of shit and I didn't even bother with the sequel. As for Ghost Rider? When the sloppily made Daredevil is a better movie, you have serious problems.Again, X1 and X2 were both wasted opportunities given the source material. Under a more accomplished action director who has visual style and flair, these films could have been great.But instead we get Mutants being Discovered reduced to the equivalent of Closeted Homosexuals coming out. Singer also missed the mark on several characters (Rogue, Cyclops, Storm) and he got rid of a great one (Sabretooth).And finally I didn't really like how the Xmen, (Who are supposed to all be bad assed individually) were reduced to running wimps who looked to Wolverine for help like if they were the fucking Power Rangers looking for Tommy to help them.And yup I just name checked The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.Anyhow, I don't have faith in Singer as an action movie director. Someone else (Given the huge Superman Returns budget) could have made the Superman film to end all Superman films.Also, Justice League doesn't have to feature Batman. There are enough marquee superheroes in the DC universe to choose from.
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There are so many decent bad guys in the Superman pantheon; Metallo, Brainiac, Lobo, Toyman, Bizarro, even Mr. Mxyzptlk. And of course Darkseid would make a terrific villain, too.
Lex is a good enough villain, but so far he has been in all but one of the films. Time to give the character a break. -
He has 7000 Myspace friends, but Singer isn't one of them. Dont know what go into me then. Never used the Phone or Myspace reference before. For shame!!
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I don't care if the sex is good between you three, the scripts for X2 and Superman Returns were both undercooked.
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...but they need to ditch the Gene Hackman characterization and go with something a little more reflective of the comics. Thing is, all the Superman characters have evolved since '78 through the comics and other media like the Timmverse cartoons and so-forth. That evolution needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in a modern Superman film. I agree that Singer's fatal flaw last time out was being too stuck in the past. Love the Donner film... a certain amount of homage was absolutely necessary, but Singer allowed himself to be ruled by it. He didn't bother to consider that there may be more to Superman than the Reeve pictures and maybe the Reeves TV show. Should have read the key Superman comics from the past 20-odd years, watched every episode of S:TAS and Justice League, etc. Well... THAT fatal flaw, and the one where the Superman-as-deadbeat-dad story was a fucking retarded idea, but what's done is done.
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brandon routh is spot on. Get better supporting cast. Push lex into the background. get a major ass villian. make lois less of a 'I only get dick twice a week' kinda bitch. god, I hated her 'why the world doesn't need superman' crap. He saved your fucking plane, bitch. Rather than have superman moping on the farm, get a real writer to tell a story. SR was fuckin boring as retard porn. Make it FUN.
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I seem to remember when people loved it as its a great film. Now its suddenly changed for no reason.
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The problem with Lex Luthor as a villian in the movies is that he is played as a common criminal. What makes him Superman's greatest villian is that he is brilliant, and head of a multi-national corporation. He is able to devise schemes to further his evil intentions, but does it in such a way that Superman is forced to stop him, but at the same time cannot incriminate him. Singer should have taken a page from the Bruce Timm series pilot - the scene where Superman is floating outside Lex's office and tells him he will be watching him. Superman knows Lex is no good, but has to obey the law and can't just take him out. THAT'S the Lex that should be portrayed on screen - not the one that get trapped on an island with nothing to eat but coconuts and a yappy dog. Singer's movie would have been much better had he just tweaked that aspect of Lex's character.
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And I did enjoy it, flaws and all, I saw the dang thing 4 times in the theaters, each time with different friends...The second time around DOES need to start seperating itself from the donner verse and start a new fresh path to singerville. I hereby request at least five minutes in the movie dedicated to just Superman, flying around being super, in our faces, stopping bad guys and savinbg cats, and I mean like all over metropolis, I wanna see him lifting buses, and doing all the things superman does on a daily basis, besides stalk lois...PLEASE??!! And that is an aside from a KICK ASS Villain who DOES NOT NEED TO BE ZOD...please, lets take a new approach!! Also, Supermans rogues gallery is pretty lame, so maybe now is the time for them to revamp, beef up and or create some new villains that kick major ass, and are NOT connected personally to SUPERMAN...if you think about it, ALL of the problems from SUPERMAN RETURNS were caused in part by supermans presence here on earth, if he did not exist, the catalyst for Luthors hate , and the technology to take it to the level he did would not have been there. PLEASE make the villain a bad guy that is not related, to supermans homeworld or something superman created...can't it be a being of supreme evil, that wants nothing more than the destruction of all life??? Go ahead and give him a quick back story..no need for a 30 min love fest...I don't wanna like the bad guy...I wanna HATE him...
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but could we get Erica Durance in as Lois...its the only element of Smallville I reckon that deserves a bit of big screen time...she is great as Lois lane...maybe not Singers "Mother and mopey love interest" Lois but Lois in general-she has the spark and atitude me thinks....and I cant think of anyone else who could play the part of the top of my head. And I reckoned Supes Returns was okay...flawed but alright..I reckon a sequel can iron out the problems...like getting rid of Bosworth (who looked like an 11 year old wearing her dads workshirt and mommys wig), and less camp with Lex. And for Christs sake get in Brainiac already....
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...what's been thrown around for a while w/the intergalactic/Sci-Fi angle. I'm w/ya on the we all know Superman loves Lois thing, so let's continue to tread into new territory. They did a little towards the end of Returns w/the father son thing...but in the next one I'd like to see Braniac float/arrive on Earth somehow, & Lex already knowing about him from the crytal classes he's taken in the previous movie(s). Kind of tryin to manipulate the situation in his favor. You know, like Doom did w/the surfer, or at least helpin Braniac w/info about the 1/2 kryptonian boy.
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obviously with someone elses voice (as per usual)....Im thinking....Anthony Hopkins dulcet tones? anyone?
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if you want to stay American
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remember they have a 10 million dollaer sequense that they have not put on screen or dvd...Singer said it was too expensive not to be used for film...so whatever they do, will have that scene in there somewhere...
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Much bettah than most Marvel movies, and almost as good as Batman Begins. And yes, even though I love the movie I KNOW there are issues to be worked out for the sequel. Namely: FUCKING ACTION!!! we reeeeally need to see Supes fighting something. That was sorely missed from SR. Probably recast Lois....Bosworth's forehead bothered me more than her acting, wich I thought was fine....Spacey was great. Routh was great. Just bring Brainiac and Metallo with Luthor in the background and you're good to go. Also, Shia fucks cats.
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whats with all the X2 hate? twas class!! And I lover Anna Paquin as Rogue incidentally-not at all like the comic books , but a great idea for the character to be a teenager...I thought X3 dismissed her story arc comepletely-I mean the first one was all about her coming to terms with stuff and the second showed her settling in and then Ratner just goes "fuck that" and shes cured? What kind of a message is that to send to people? He could have had a smaller character choose the cure but he landed the one who we travelled with since day one and destroyed the message of the X men films with it....the gimp. anyway, since when did everyone stop hating Ratner and launched into Singer?
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The pacing left a bit to be desired... WB really has faith in Singer... I guess they're hoping he pulls an X2...
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He may not be your favourite guy to make a Superman flick, but damn can he play a mean game of Chicken with the studios. What was his directing fee again? 20 million?!!
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whose safe is Chris Nolan? Fair enough, Ive yet to see the guy do wrong...EVER...which makes me scared cos he has to slip up soon and it might be Dark Knight (gulp). Unless he pulls a Coens and has 17 years of greatness and makes meh films later in his career....
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Best news I have had all day, although I have only been awake for an hour.
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Enough!!!! Bring back Terance Stamp as Zod (Wrath of Khan) Wrath of Zod
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Just saying is all.
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No Zod, okay, Singer? It's time to do your own version of Superman. Get Brainiac or Metallo in there and please remove Bosworth - she was a joke as Lois.
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but as Lois. More true now than when it was first said.
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It's waaay more than four. The Smallville talkbacks were quite busy with posts from supporters last season. Even with its obvious faults (mainly crap writing) it remains the best version of Supes to date outside of the comics and cartoon. Welling remains the best live action Supes. Rosebaum the best Lex. And Lionel Luthor the best character....period.
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New sets made or massive existing sets shipped across the world? I would like to understand the reasoning behind the move.
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What a terrible fucking idea to bring back Lex, AGAIN! Are you kidding me? Well I guess this is one movie I won't be looking forward to at all. Truly sad.
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What a heaping pile shit SR was...These Bozos are back! NOOOOOOOOOO... Sorry but one action sequence does not define a movie
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I want to see Tom Welling in a Red Hood with sunglasses. That will be his Superman costume in Smallville.
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I got it at the Daily Script.
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Terrible, terrible casting there. Not as bad a Bosworth, but seriously, thats not even a fair comparison. I don't care if its a Smallville flick, or a Singer Supes... ANNE HATHAWAY MUST BE LOIS LANE!!!
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Except for the kid. I am a die hard Man O Steel fan and really wanted to like all of the flicks,but the flaws are there. The opening of Superman 3 still makes me sick to my stomach. What we need ,and it seems the consensus here, is Brainiac and or Bizzaro. I want to see Brainiac go all Terminator and KILL superkid. That would make Supes insanely mad and then we see the fight to the death between Brianiac and Supes. That would be sooooo awesome. Superman needs to be epic,planet sprawling and awesome.
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...but that's Impulse's costume.
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I'd love to see the Luthors and the Dimera's go at it.
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I didn't see the "horrible" casting choices, and I think Bryan Singer is an amazing director. Usual Suspects anyone? I never enjoyed Superman comics (besides some JLA), but I thought the movie was very well done. Loved Spacey in it, loved that shot of him falling "dead" back into the atmosphere. It was no Batman Begins, but its fucking Superman.
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Richard Donner makes good Richard Donner movies, not Singer.
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All this Superman II talk is bringing back all those young teen fantasies.
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He also makes bad Richard Donner movies. WTF was up with LW4??? yikes.
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I wants a Robert Rodriguez DKR flick starring Powers Boothe as Bats.
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YOU AIN'T GOT THE BALLS TO DO ANYTHING THAT COOL DO YA WB?
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Jul 11, 2007 12:30:22 PM CDT
Officially, this will be the first flick I'll boycott
by d.a.c. defenders of action cinema
This is a huge smack in the face to all fans of action flix and Superman. We've all expressed serious disdain with the direction that this guy took with the classic property.
so now they are making this flick for about ten people (the execs, singer and his writers) and all of West Hollywood. Not fair.
Where is our Superman Returns talkback?
older talkbacks are here. what mysteriously happened to that one?
Could it have been removed because we exposed all of the heartbreaking flaws of that flick?
Boycott a Singer Superman flick.
-Tron-1
D.A.C.
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The Aussie dollar IS awfully high against the U.S. at the moment.
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...Jason isn't really Supes son. He's really a artificially inseminated clone of Jor-El that Lois was impregnated with by a walking talking Krypto. Man, does this kid have the scoops or what?
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I realized just why we don't see Superman actually fight anyone. This last film sets Superman up like he's Jesus Christ. The parallels are obvious, especially when he's falling to earth, arms outstretched. Superman is portrayed like Jesus, and Jesus just wouldn't be beating people up, would he? This time, let him fight a giant robot from outer space or something! How about a little Sci-Fi and some actual superheroing. At least even Donner (or whoever the Hell directed Superman II) gave us Superman fighting Zod and friends in the second one...
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How stupid does that sound? I know some people are close minded, but not all. I dislike Singer because he makes mediocre movies that are overrated and gets a pass from the Fanboy nation. He just doesn't deserve it.
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I like Smallville. They get a lot right. They also have a lot of crap going on. Though I like the show, I will admit that in 6 seasons, they've probably had 3 seasons worth of good stuff. But, they do agree with the new movie's assessment of Superman acting like a stalker, insanely obsessive about a woman. In the new flick, it's Lois, on Smallville it's Lana. And yes, Clark's virtually ignoring Chloe is reason to question his heterosexuality.
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That was Donner's second and copying Donner is all that Signer can do. Get the cokehead off this project before he gives his "superman" neon nipple rings.
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I actually bought one though. Do those statues ever go on clearance sales?
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John C. McGinley from SCRUBS, anyone?
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=n031-svL_XA http://youtube.com/watch?v=9-oaSSUpKBo THERE YA GO!!!
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And the main villains would be Brainiac and Metallo. Singer may not be Michael Bay with testosterone-laden, over the top action, but he's great at nailing characters and emotional moments within extraordinary circumstances. That's why Wolverine and Rogue worked. That's why, in my opinion, the love triangle and the kid worked. I know I'm in the majority, but I thought the kid and Marsden's character were some of the most interesting and unique things about SR. And SR joyless? Not for me, that's for sure. When Supes steps out onto the baseball field after saving the plane, recognizes the crowd and takes it all in (especially after thinking that people didn't want Superman anymore), I was feeling a lot of joy in the theatre in that moment. I can't wait to see where he goes next. But we'll still probably have to wait a while. I wish Singer could get a Marvel franchise not tied to Fox, so he can actually have the freedom to work how he wants.
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Or should I say, "Why S:TMOS doesn't need a supervillain". It's really too early to start thinking about a new villain, since there is SOOOO much story left to be explored from SR. For one, I can't wait to see how the relationship between Richard and Lois develops. Richard is a fascinating character, and provided SR with someone that audiences could actually identify with- as opposed to an alien who just has too many powers. But most importantly, I want to see Jason's story unfold. The next two films should really focus on his struggle to find a balance between his Kryptonian heritage and the life he must live here on Earth. If handled properly, the saga of Jason White could be one of the greatest trilogies ever committed to film. When you think of all the possibilities that Richard and Jason provide, I'm not sure why anyone would want a lame supervillain added at this point. I think one reason why Superman has always been such a dull character, is that he's never faced any real challenges in the comics. What Singer did with SR was find a way to actually make the character interesting, by placing him in an emotional crisis that will be unbelievably cool to watch him get out of. OMG! Can you imagine if Lois decides to MARRY Richard? What an amazing cliffhanger that would make for the end of the second film! Superman could learn the shattering news just as Jason confides that he "feels more comfortable being around Richard"! This is the sort of double threat that a comicbook film needs, and would make Spiderman's troubles seem tame by comparison.
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Talk about something that can't be given away for free. Sometimes great companies make mistakes.
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Luthor's vs. Dimeras... That'll be gold...
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Superman Returns was a boring will and grace episode that was not Superman. Bayformers was a highly entertaining movie that actually felt like Transformers and had more Transformers than Superman Returns had Superman. Eat shit cunt.
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Doesn't mean Superman Returns wasn't shit, okay, Memories-Of-Murder?
Superman Returns was shit. -
are you fucking serious? Durance is Lois. I've read the comics for a long time and objectively picture the translations and Durance is fucking Lois Lane, same attitude, mannerisms, even fucking nuances. She is Lois. and even then she isn't supposed to be the same Lois from the comics, considering she has years to grow till she becomes that Lois, that's like someone complainign that the Bruce Wayne in the batman begins flashback isn't Bruce Wayne.
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Bosworth never felt right in that role. If they can pull a switch for Lois, as well as make sure the kid doesn't 'super-boy' his way into the movie, then I'd have hope
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what the fuck are you talking about? Smallville hasn't done 'freak of the week' since season 1, I say this because it has to be every week for it to be that, and they started weening off it till by season 4 it become sporadic and season 5 and 6 was more like the 3 freaks of the season and even then they were tied to a greater story.
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. . . was shit too.that felt like Transformers like a Goofy cartoon feels like the first season of 24.
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watch the last episode of Season 5 and the first episode of season 6, more action, excitement and high quality than Superman Returns, I couldn't imagine what that teams would have done with 200 million and to open up those 2 episodes.
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I thought it was great and so did alot of other people. An entertaining film is bad? I said it felt more like Transformers than Superman Returns felt like Superman assfuck.
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You said it "actually felt like Transformers."
If you had actually said it felt more like transformers than Superman returns felt like Superman, I would not have disagreed with you about that.
Because Transformers WAS Transforming shit. -
No more Lex Luthor PLEASE. Fucking shit. Fucking shit.
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Smallville was the first Live action thing or actual any type of Media to show Superman do the things Superman can REALLY do. Show him fly like he can actually fly, like at mach 3. The first live action to show a super brawl(with his father), the first to use Heat vision instead of laser vision, X-ray vision instead of see through vision.
http://tinyurl.com/32dosk
This is Superman, it feels like Superman. When he has clark by the neck, it just feels how Superman should be, the music, the context. http://tinyurl.com/2zjf22 -
several friends of mine have worked on Singer films, and he is a TYRANT on the set, and anti- american. he kept bitching about how he will 'never make another film in america again.' he would rather outsource his films abroad, so he can be the king of the fairy trants on set. and he fucked up superman something huge. so i wish this was news that he was NOT directing the movie, cause this guy does not know how to direct action. all he knows how do is bitch and moan on movie sets, and disrespect the hard working crews. Fuck him, he is a dork.
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...Don't get me wrong -- Christopher Reeve was a fantastic Superman/Clarke Kent. He was just acting in better movies than he was actually in. I would set it in the late thirties, around the time of the original comics, and totally scale down his powers. In fact, I would probably just adapt Tom De Haven's "It's Superman!" (sorry if someone here already said that). Superman Returns is the worst of the movies, not counting the certifiedly crappy ones like III and IV. Brian Singer doesn't have the first clue about this character and how to make him interesting. It's because he's just a disconnected Cinebot Director 3000. The X-Men movies were plenty shiny, but about as sincere as Hugh Jackman's Logan hair helmet (every time I look at him in those movies, all I can think of are hot girls and gay men touching up his coif between takes). As mentioned by others here on this talkback, Singer has no soul, and Superman needs LOTS of soul. If Peter Weir was really venturing into the fantasy world, I would rather see him do Superman than The Hobbit (or someone like him). Of course, all of this is pointless babble because the damage is already done and it's looking like the same culprits are coming back for another go, but I believe that the reason Superman isn't really working now is that he is being put into the wrong context by people who don't understand what makes the character who he is. To do Superman right, you can't be afraid to venture into the realm of the uncool. Embrace nerdiness, and the boyscout creed. Go against the grain of current thinking that needs everything to be "dark". Hell, who here has seen The Phantom? I think that's exactly the kind of tone and approach Superman needs. Maybe Simon Wincer should be making Superman movies. Why does this piss me off so much? I've always been way more of a Bat-fan.
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what the fuck are you talking about? a 200 million dollar will and grace episode has ambition. How does Bayformers lose? It's an incredibly entertaining movie with some moments of brilliance. Excitement and awe throughout, superman returns was a dull, bland, badly paced film. You're hysterical because you're defending SUPERMAN RETURNS, so many people across the internet talk about how superman returns apologists are the worst. Transformers tried to achieve bringing Transforming robots to life and it did it and it was awe inspiring as many many people have said. Moments of wonder. What the fuck did superman returns have? the plane sequence in between one of the most forgettable movies ever made. hahaha more than what bayformers could dream of achieving? a visually awe inspiring entertaining action movie, things that have never been done before. Didn't superman returns basically rehash Superman the movie. Suck dick cunt.
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News flash! Superman revealed as Clark Kent!
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Overall I liked the film a lot, mainly it didn't have the gloom and doom that seems to be the norm for comic book films, but it has problems .
Kevin Spacey's Lex doesn't seem like a threat at all. His plan was just plain dumb.
Kate Bosworth as Lois is totally unbelievable. A younger Ashley Judd would have been perfect, or an older Superman.Or keep Routh as a Superman that ages slower than Lois, which would have been much more interesting.
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A) Singer is not and was never the Second Coming. This is not to say that he doesn't make good movies or that I haven't enjoyed his films but the X-men films were good but not great. They excelled in character but not the action department. This is not to say that I want a balls to the wall X-men movie but I was promised filet mignon and was delivered salisbury steak. I ate it, I enjoyed it but it was no filet mignon.B) A new director would be welcomed but if Singer returns new writers are a MUST! I do not want Superman Lifts part 2, I do not want Superkid, I do not want Emoman pining, stalking and sulking. I do not want Lex wringing his hands while his fiendish, nefarious plot discarded from an afternoon cartoon plays out. I want Superman getting his ass kicked and kicking ass in return. C) Keep the cast. Casting was the one thing I think Singer got right. Bosworth never would've been my choice but she was servicable and not distracting at all. D) Give us a kick ass villain with matching ass kicking action sequences. A lot of us geeks have stated who we want - Bizarro, Brainiac, Metallo, etc - and more importantly who we do NOT want - Luthor...again. I don't mind if Lex is in the sequel so long as he supervises and manipulates the mayhem. But damn it give us someone who will physically and mentally test and torture Supes. Give him a challenge other than throwing a giant rock into space. Make us care about him and root for him god damn it. Its fucking Superman for christs fucking sakes. There is a built in, wide ranging audience. DON'T FUCK UP AGAIN! E) Ditch Superkid altogether! One of the biggest mistakes in film EVER! Yes EVER! I can see giving Supes a kid when you are in the second or thir film of the reboot franchise (yes I know it's the 5th movie overall and in Singers universe takes place after part 2) though I do think the kid is unnecessary overall. But for the sequel I say DON'T MENTION THE KID AT ALL. If you do keep him offscreen. There is no need for him AT ALL. Fans will be forgiving of that plot device. If you have to bring him back keep him for the third (if this one doens't flop) film. If you bring him back - keep it to a fucking minimum. Sorry for the rant. i usually don't go off like that but Superman Returns was a Super Letdown. I did not hate it but I did not love it - which is a hard thing to admit because I am pre-disposed to love anything Superman related. For some people Lucas raped their childhood for me it was Singer and his boring, mediocre mess that tried to pass itself off as a Superman movie.
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Otherwise is may not suck as much as the first one....why change anything?
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Seriously, I'd love to see him go all "Steel Magnolias" on that one.
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Fuck even the 1st Luthor scene in SR was shit!!! We had cool myth-building open with Supes landing in Smallville, THEN a dumb fucking 'gothic haunted house' comedy scene involving Lex's wig!! WTF? It was like they had switched to Burton directing! This 70's era Luthor portrayal really jared with me and the scope of the movie as a whole. We really need a REAL supervillian (eg ZOD) for this franchise.
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and yours too
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and yours too. Search your anus, you know it to be true.
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she's definitely a lois you would want to fuck. Besides lois should be prettier than superman for fucks sake!
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Let's face it, Singer's Supes was a stalker plain and simple. He made the US government look like a Civil Liberties Association. What is Superman going to do next? I know! He's gonna show up to his kid's school and pick him up! This way Superman can be commit a few more felonies...
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Jesus Christ is Luthor the only villain Superman has in his mythology?
Wake me up when it gets interesting... -
...and replace Bosworth! Nolan realized his mistake of casting Katie Holmes and corrected it (with an much better actress in Maggie Gyllenhaal). Rachel McAdams would be a good choice - she's at least got a little meat on her bones!
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I'm so sick of hearing "(insert directors name here) for JLA!". Please tell me that I am not the only one who thinks a live action Justice League movie would be retarded? Animated or CGI perhaps but certainly not live action. Its just unnecessary, some things do not translate well to the big screen, this is one of those things.
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Why in the world would you think JLA would not make the leap to film?
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or Jessica Biel.
they hot! -
wasnt he going to revive it for FOX until he left that to go and do the X-Men movies?
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i liked his character up until that point. that was ridiculous.
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Can someone explain this to me? It has gone waaaay over my head. I keep seeing "Michael Bay Denis" and I even saw "JJ Abrams Denis" the other day. I laugh because it looks funny, but WTF? Explain someone please.... Thanks!
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What is wrong with you people? Get rid of Lex? That's the whole dynamic! Superman is Physical strength, Lex is intellectual strength. It's brain vs. brawn.
Superman Returns was good. But are any of you going to seriously start calling Superman II or even the original perfect? Where along the lines did Superman become Citizen Kane? There are flaws in the original, there are flaws in Returns, like Parker Posey in her worst performance ever.
I know that everyone on this site is always waiting for that "perfect" flick, but stop calling everything else shit. I mean, what's the point in even watching these movies if you are so determined to hate them? -
Jul 11, 2007 2:17:06 PM CDT
It would be way too crowded & need to run at least 3 hr
by lando griffin
to tell a decent story. Also the DC Universe is scarce on the big name villains it would take to captivate a broad audience for a trip on the big screen. Sure us geeks would be thrilled to see Copperhead or insert Obscure Villain from Obscure comic here but these films are made to make money not satisfy geek fantasies. As far as heros Supes and Bats are DC's most well known properties (face it Flash, Wonder Woman, et al are second tier compared to the aforementioned) and mainstream movie audiences already get their fill in the Batman Begins universe and unfortunately Superman Returns. Not to mention if Bats and Supes are in any proposed JLA movie - are Routh and Bale used? If not - do we get some second rate WB pretty boys recast just for a JLA movie? If so - how do they tie back to their already established franchises? Warners already nix Smallville ideas and storylines so they don't conflict with Superman Returns universe, why muddy the waters for a JLA movie? But like you said, it could just be me that thinks that a JLA movie idea sucks.
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She has really proven to be the more talented on in the Lindsay vs McAdams battle. McAdams stole "Mean Girls" away from Lohan, yet Lohan got all the bigger paychecks and attention. But now who is looking smarter? Lohan is a 2 time rehab veteran while McAdams has a real career.One thing though, the film roles that McAdams has turned down puzzles me, Devil Wears Prada, The Dark Knight, Get Smart, MI3, Iron Man AND Casino Royale. Does she not want to be famous?But I can't knock her hustle and the fact that she wants to be a respected actress
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In the spirit of the Donner beginning to S2, it picks up directly from the end of the first film. We see Supes flying blissfully in orbit, then we pull out to see this is from a viewscreen or porthole in a space station or ship, and Brainiac has the REAL Supes (still Routh, sorry haters) strapped to a table or something, forcing him to watch everything that just happened. It turns out that wasn't really Superman who returned home after 5 years away. After disabling Brainy in a cool first-act-action sequence, he makes it to Earth just as Clone Superman starts behaving abnormally. This of course, is fodder for xenophobe Lex, who regains the public support after stopping and capturing renegade SuperClone/Bizarro (See the animated Bizarro origin episode), only temporarily. Bizarro breaks loose and of course, kidnaps LOOO-IIIZZZ! But he's more savage than the cartoony version. Trying his best to protect his mom, young Jason fights off Bizarro only to die in the futile battle. This gets Superman mad. End-of-S1 Mad. And the big fight begins. Lex is loving it, because this could be that Doomsday scenario he's dreamt of for so long!***
This plot has a few things going for it: 1.) No new casting for a super-powered villain. 2.) It could be, if you REALLY want to emulate WOK, the death-of-Superman movie without having to insert "DC's Venom," Doomsday into the mix. 3.) We have a new future villain, Brainiac set up. 4.) Kills of the kid. Sorry, Jason. 5.) Re-aligns Lex with the position he's in in modern comics, which is power-player, not shady gigolo criminal with real estate delusions.*** Oh, and finally, at Jason's funeral, how cool would it be that we see standing in the back of the chapel, some familiar faces, like Diana, Ollie, Hal, Barry, J'onn, Dinah, etc. (No Bruce, not yet). Ah, Fan Fiction: Masturbation without the sense of accomplishment afterward. Flame on! -
Smallville is clearly doing the Bizarro thing this coming season. HELLO!
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From what Variety is reporting, the script that Warners has gotten (which they really like)incorporates six heroes, including Bats and Supes...one the hero side, that ain't that crowded. Christian Bale has signed a 3-picture deal to play Batman, NOT to just appear in a Batman film, so that seems to help lock him into the JLA; Routh needs the work, and he's said as much in interviews about how he would love to be in a JLA movie. I think it's safe to assume that three of the other heroes are Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern. I'm really clueless as to the 6th (Martian Manhunter? Hawkman/girl? Who knows?) but I'm sure they'll fit nicely. As far as villains, there are plenty of heavy hitters to face the league...Darkseid, Despero, Amazo, Starro, Warworld...I won't hold out hopes for a Legion of Doom. But when you say "get their fill" I'm not sure what you mean...if I like Supes, and I like Bats...why would I be satiated with their individual movies? Why wouldn't I want to see more of them, especially together? And I think you underrate the recognition of the other heroes...we all know Flash and WW were seriously being considered for the silver screen (WW is on the back burner, I know, but as far as I've heard Flash is still a go, although with that terrible "Night at the Museum" director). And as far as obscure villains, who the heck outside of comic fans knew who Ra's Al Ghul was in Batman Begins? Geeks can be heard too. So, would you LIKE to see a GOOD JLA movie but you don't think it can be done? Or does the entire idea just leave you cold?
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i dont understand... who plays Richard Pryor in this one??? that last one was AWFUL... the story was terrible and didnt make much sense. the new supes... cant stand looking at him. Spacey revisits Dr Evil... and comes off as the Diet Coke of Evil.
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Problem with "Returns" is that it requires Superman generally to stay the f*** away from Lois in future movies lest he revert to unsympathetic "other guy" stalker perv mode. I felt more sympathy for poor James Marsden than Supes - probably not what Singer intended. McAdams is a good recasting choice, but I'm guessing she was approached for "Returns" and turned it down.
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Someone had said earlier that no one feels the need to put the Joker in every single Batman Movie but for some reason, Lex Luthor is in four out of the five Superman films. That's because Superman has no good villains! Batman has awesome villains, but with Supes you get two kinds: really smart or really strong. That's it. Lex Luthor is a great vilain for him because he can outsmart Superman. But outside of Lex, it's just "Really strong guy dressed differently." Mongul, Doomsday, Darkseid, Metallo...they all serve the same exact purpose: they can actually take a punch from Superman and punch back. Yippee. But outside of that, it's just a bunch of strong men in different outfits. And if the purpose of the villain is just to physically fight Superman, that will get real old, real quick. Why not just have him fight the Hulk (I hear he needs a good movie to fight in as well.)
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All directors have a life span whereby the quality of their work reaches a peak, then plummets back to Planet Shit. Singer peaked with Usual Suspects, Apt Pupil, and the X movies -- now he's PLUMMETING. And Warner Bros. is too dumb to see it. But it's ok, I guess. As long as they've got $350 million dollars to throw away...AGAIN.
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Singer never got a handle on Luthors character. The only way for his character to work in the sequel is through his genetically engineered intelligence .Secondly we need to see a semblance of Luthorcorp. then we need to see Luthor involved in Starlabs with the creation of Connor Kent and....Doomsday.
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I thoroughly enjoyed/loved Usual Suspects, Apt Pupil and X2. That's 3 more of his films that I've enjoyed than those of Bay & Ratner combined. I'm not defending SR, but he has turned in some good work. I think his worst choice was staying too close to Donner's original film instead of making his own.
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Yes Bay's plot storyline, dialog was cliche'd bay stuff. And yes as usuall= hia action scenes were disorienting and difficult to follow at times. And yes Singer is a better technical dorector than Bay and understands these things a lot better than Bay. BUT!..... Transformers had action, and was able to translate the awe and coolness of a giant robot transforming, and most of all... despite the clumsy handling, he did not deviate far from the source material. Singer's film was boring, dated, and fuck that little kid, I dont want to see Supes and son. AT no stage in that movie did I go holy shit or wow! He was unable to show super man being super, In Spiderman and Bayformers there are times when you get to marvel and just sit back, in SR we wwere just wieghed down by the morbidness of brokenhome superman. There are so many epic Superman story lines from the last twenty years of comics that couls and should be adapted. WARNER BROS> DO NOT DO THIS! YOU CAN MAKE SO MUCH MORE AND HAVE WAY BETTER MOVIES. Fuck SInger
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SR was the biggest dissapoitment in the last decade. Even bigger than Ep III ("Noooooo!" " He's is my kid")
Also How can AINC support the sucktacular movie. OKX2 was entertaining but SR sucked had a huge budget and seriously how lame was spacey. That camp corny shit just does not floy in the 21 century let alone the nineties. Vern Tell your collegues how shit this movie was and to review this peice of crap on its own merits not that of X2. (and shit it wasnt like X2 was the Matrix or anything)
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of a recent superhero movie that was more stupid (Luthor's wacky dame), oddly paced (the out-of-place ER scene when they can't get a needle in), meaningless (rock island as valuable waterfront property?) and boring as Superman Returns. Shockingly bad.
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Otherwise don't waste my time with goofy Hackman-Luthor clones or fugly Parker Posey crap.
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'cause you obviously have no clue how many big films these days have all their action scenes done by the second unit director who also doubles as the stunt co-ordinator. Jesus! It's not so much that SInger can't as much as he didn't! He barely talked to the board artists and the pre-vis stuff was a nice little puff piece. He wasn't really interested in the photography on an intimate level either. Just the actors.
Shogun, he's not just
"Anti-American". He's anti-everyone by your argument as those same shenanigans happened elsewhere too.
Memories, WTF? "It byted more then it could chew" Sorry but WHO is using their arse? That's irony all right! The only thing everyone can agree with you about is Berry and Catwoman (or "Catwomen" as you say). Should have been Angela Bassett "sinc eday one". -
Spacey was TERRIBLE!!! just as frickin cheesy as hackman, but not as classy at it. Enough of lex luthor, and start using some damn new characters!!
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I started reading through it and I agree, so far the first 15 pages are great. Why don't they just let Abrams film this and pretend SR never happened?
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Not that anybody cares. Just wondering. Also wondering why they couldn't make Lex anywhere near as cool as the animated Lex Luthor. Lex Luthor on Justice League was badass, yo.
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Even Stallone swears by that and Warner Bros should to. Superman should be grossing Spiderman figures not FF figures. And can with a good modern (90's comic adapted) serious take on Superman. The best comic adaptions take their characters and story seriously. Luthor if truly a super villian should be sharp ruthelss and intelligent and surround himself with likeminded people. Not door knobs. Serious that worked in the 80's but not today. Rocky and SR have many parallels. Both were 80's rehashes. However the difference is Rocky was designed as a nostalgic sorta movie, and the essence was brought back ultraism and moral character. SR was just dated, and 80's donner movie with modern effects, with Superman;s moral character compromised. Seriously I copuld have given this movie a B if it easnt for that kid. WB Superman can and should be so much more.
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Good: Routh did a superb job, focus on character, mythology/modern family themes, Spacey's performance (I don't understand the hate), and the plane scene. Bad: plot is too closely tied to the first film and Lex is more interesting as a tycoon. Far from perfect, I believe the film had more positive qualities than negative qualities. Singer made a vast improvement with X2 and I have faith he will do the same with SR:TMOS. Even if you didn't like the movie, doesn't his mostly positive track record deserve a limited amount of trust?
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Spacey and Routh shined in their roles. Period. Lois Lane, Perry White and Jimmy Olsen ALL need to be recast. Bosworth reminded me of talentless college girls I used to act with at AADA. She was pretending to be a reporter and in certain scenes especially she is painful and frustrating to watch. Cast an unknown that channels Kidder or Karen Allen. Wall to wall action and a few comedy set pieces where Supes has to change back and forth from Superman to Clark to fool Lois and co. Im guessing there wasnt much action in SR because they had already spent so much in development hell over the years...
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You shit on Michael Bay for not having enough character oriented scenes and then turn around and cast the same hand upon Bryan Singer for not having enough action oriented scenes.
As far as I can see it in this talkback, Michael Bay is probably the better director, because at least his characters in Transformers were as fleshed out as those in SR and also had the action to boot. -
it will be ten times better then Superman Returns.
I dont want to see him just saving people. I want to see him FIGHTING. -
I'm not one of those annoying fanboys who thought Tom Welling = God = Superman. LOL But yes, I'd rather watch 6 seasons of "Smallville" anyday over "Superman Returns." That show is good enough that one season is probably better than that movie, although I admit, some seasons are definitely better than others. "Superman Returns" was not a bad movie, but it didn't catch me like the Spider-Man franchise, the original Superman franchise, or the X-Men franchise. Worth the price of admission, but a lot of issues which have already been mentioned in earlier posts so I won't flashback to them.
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would make it to the flicks for a while...although even though they just did an animated one its pretty obvious that Doomsday has to be made at some point....
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Singer spent a lot of money he didn't need to. Every time something appears on the screen, it doesn't need to be CGI -- save that for the parts where it makes sense. Here's hoping that they a)ditch the writers and find some writers who can, you know...write. b)Admit that SR was a mistake, and re-boot a la "Hulk" c)One of Superman's powers is NOT "Super-brooding". Superman is bright, uplifting, and hopeful. No angst and inner-torment here, please. d)NOTE: Superman's original comic book was called "Action" for a reason. They should have some in the next movie. e)NEVER, EVER feature Lex Luthor in another Superman movie. Enough already with the bald dude. Really. f)DO NOT feature the Phantom Zone criminals in the next movie. Richard Donner's movies have already been re-made enough. Leave it alone. g)Superman doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, and tells the truth. Oh yeah, he also doesn't stalk ex-girlfriends, isn't a peeping tom, and doesn't father illegitmate children. f)Krypton explodes -- NOT Krypton's sun AND Krypton. Do your homework, for cry'n out loud. Asshats.
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Re-cast the whole damn thing. Almost every actor in this miscast -- ESPECIALLY Skinnyman. Try to find a MAN for the part -- this isn't SuperBOY, 'kay??
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could they not do somethin about him not bein able to save EVERYBODY? I mean, at the end of SR when Metropolis is quakin and shit Supes flies in and saves the day no problem...could they not have at least a couple of people die and let Supes have doubt in his abiities as a saviour of the world? and does anyone but me have Brainiac casting ideas?
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Just Kidding, you panzies!
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You may be right about Bale's contract, but if WB tries to get him to do a Justice League movie then I hope he walks away. And I hope WB has better sense. Time is too precious for Bale to waste part of his 30s in a movie where he is one of many heroes. They've got the perfect Batman in Bale, so they should just focus on making as many good Batman movies while he's still young enough and interested.
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"Superman doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, and tells the truth. Oh yeah, he also doesn't stalk ex-girlfriends, isn't a peeping tom, and doesn't father illegitmate children." What is it with Hollywood now having to make every hero in our mythology a dark character? That's cool, he's human in his psyche, we get it, but sometimes it's nice to think there's still one man left on this world who stands for truth, justice, and the American Way, even if he is a fictional character.
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I had my palm under my elbow the whole time watching Soup Returns. I am with everyone puzzled/saw disconnect between end of II and son of S. I agree with stones_throw and everyone else saying there should be a more hardcore Superman villain already -- kyrptonite shank in the back? Nasty. Nasty, nasty; would ANYONE cried foul if Supes went back to confront Lex, told baldy, "you know. I've been away for so long. And you still haven't shaped up. You're too damn dangerous" and kicked Lex's head clean off. Would be cool if the head ended up on roof of The Joker's hideout or something. Done. Next villain. THAT woulda' saved the film for me. Not this gentle talk while Jr.'s sleeping. The end.
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First I tip my hat to you sir. Its good to know that actual civil discussions can be had in these talkbacks without resulting to insults or other forms of hateration when one disagrees with another. Its very refreshing. TO answer your last couple of questions I guess the idea just leaves me cold. What sounds good on paper doesn't necessarily mean it will look good up on the big screen. I would be happy to eat my words but at this point I just don't see it making a good translation. Batman Begins was a good reboot and hopefully the sequel is just as good but if Bats and Supes are gonna headline any JLA movie I would love Supes franchise to get some solid fotting as its own franchise first - Returns didn't do that. I would assume that with Warners having several superhero projects in various stages of development - Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern - they would want to give those characters their own startups before diving into JLA. So maybe I don't have anything to worry about in the near future. Its just the whole thing sounds like it would be messy. Honestly I am never this negative about proposed projects but to me these characters deserve a little more respect than just slapping together a script and throwing it up on screen to make some quick cash. I still dread the fact that WB owns these properties.
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Great - one of the douche bags who screwed up the last movie and who hates "the American way." God forbid we get a Superman flick not written by a fuckin' Commie.
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.....i)Kryptonite is not like poison to Superman......it IS poisonous to Superman; the radioactive, immediately-kill-you-quick kind of poisonous. Bearing this in mind he cannot possibly lift up a Cyanide Island into space with an Arsenic shard deeply imbeded in him, when only moments earlier he couldn't kick a 40 year old man's butt just because he was standing on the stuff. .....Actually make that 2 more:- j) Superman is not a deadbeat dad, a stalker or a deserter. Get rid of the kid however you please and get Superman into therapy for those issues A.S.A.P. Until then, don`t make another movie. Asshats.
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Its not that Hackman and Spacey's acting is bad, but rather that the part has never been written right. The Donner films can be more easily forgiven since (I've read) the version of Lex as the corporate tycoon did not come about until the mid 80s. But WB and Singer have no excuses. They chose to ignore a vastly superior vision of Lex just to keep with one of the worst things about the Donner movies. Its just a bad commentary on the Superman universe that the least exposed incarnations of him -- the comics, the mid 90s cartoon, Smallville -- all have done Lex well, while the showcase feature films, which are seen by a much larger general audience, have offered crap for Lex. Really, WB should have taken the cartoon from the 90s and adapted it for the big screen as a Superman reboot. It may have been redundant for fans, but the general audience would have seen a better version of Superman than they ever had. Other than powering Superman down too much, that cartoon got most things right.
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I agree completely with what you say. There could be a great Superman movie if WB let someone handle it who actually gets what makes the character great.
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Maybe not if they'd actually had a script for them. Really, though, what kind of reverse genius does it take to make Kevin Spacey and Frank Langella unmemorable in a movie? Poor Brandon Routh, I'd actually like to see him in something, he seemed to have a nice sense of humor, but he was trapped imitating Reeve with a mopey script, he never had a chance to show us anything that wasn't a pale shadow of somebody else.
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NO NO NO NO
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...what a horrible uncomplicated piece of dookey - Shame, Bryan Singer, shame....
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Looking forward to see this.
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This would be good news if WB had done what Marvel did... AX THE DIRECTOR AND CO. THAT DESTROYED THE MOVIE (à la Hulk) and started anew... Singer will bring the big ass effects to this movie for sure but that'll be the whole movie, nothing else than Clark looking clueless for about 15 minutes of the movie and the rest of the time Superman's character being raped like Minnie in a Disney convention (see youtube I guess for that one...). Singer destroyed the characters in his first take by making Lois an incompetent mother hooked on her cigarettes; Luthor rich by screwing papers from a dying woman without having the family going to court to call "foul play" and having extremely wealthy yet bent on having a freaking beach front lot that looked like an island made by a volcano and completely dead; Perry being a calm editor that has no passion for his work anymore; Jimmy made straight from a 50's comic book that made the Batman TV Series in the 60's look dark and complex, and looked completely ridiculous; Martha who didn't looked worried at all for her indestructible son who was pronounced dead once she saw Lois pass by in a crowd of people; and Superman who became a voyeur and had texts that would match the worst Superman movie made "the Quest for peace" with his ridiculous speech about flying is still the safest way to travel...I mean what else can he ass-rape (no pun intended here get your minds out of the gutters) in his next movie? I mean he destroyed 60% of everything that made Superman great for the last 50 years... While I hoped for a good movie last time around, Singer completely made it impossible to like it because of the 50 + scenes that were basically stolen right off the first two Movies, the and the fact that Clark had no soul, no lines, wore glasses when he was young on the farm??? and could've been replaced by Michael Jackson's monkey, Bobo!I can say that this time around the effect won't make me go to the theaters to watch this pile of crap #2. I'll torrent the shit out of it without spending 1$ to the theater and like the first Singer's take NOT buy the dvd when it comes out.. And this from a guy who saw Daredevil at the theater and bought it on dvd... So that's how crappy I think Singer's take was on the world's most famous superhero. Won't see it, won't buy it... Singer can rape your wallets, but not mine.
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And I did think it captured a lot of the 80s magic. What's more, it actually made Superman an interesting, conflicted character. I even liked Superkid, although I don't need for them to expand on his role in the next film. I agree Supes certainly needs a different villain, one that can actually physically challenge him. I mean, half the joy of SM is that we have a hero who can fly, outrun a bullet, lift islands, shoot lasers out of his eyes -- basically, he can fight ANYthing. So why have him fight the same bald man time after time? But even so, SR was Casablanca compared to Transformers, and I thought Singer and crew did an excellent job.
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You do realize that Basic Instinct 2 came out in 2006, right? And the Benchwarmers, so maybe that's a little harsh for Krypton's last Son.
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....in a nutshell
WTF were you thinking Singer? -
Since WB wants the SR sequel to be cheaper, the Cannon group has been revived to produce MAN OF STEEL. Look for the missing Nuclear Man 1 footage from SUPERMAN IV to be used extensively. Brandon Routh looks enough like Chris Reeve that they feel that audiences won't know the difference when they use old stock footage. Every time Superman flies into the screen we'll see the same wobbly shot(with wires!). The supporting characters will be able to breath in space. Superman's son Jason will turn obnoxiously evil and change his name to Lenny Luthor, pretending to be Lex's nephew. And the flick will have an enviromentalist message, with a special cameo by Tipper Gore(Al is too expensive).
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would rethink their enjoyment of this film. Screwing up Luthor so badly is a major albatross for the Superman series (see The Animated Series to see how this strong character is handled). Luthor is key to the Superman universe. The other issue is that this series needs to be entirely recast.
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What really irked me was the bipolar swing between saint-like savior and everyman loser that Singer took. It's absurd and completely threw the tone of the film off. He is just a man at the end of the day. He is simple, upright, with a lot of responsibility and power to wield. That is what makes the character interesting, especially juxtaposed with characters like Luthor who have a completely different view of responsibility and power.
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saved the airplane. That captured the charm of the character, and that was it. Stop trying to make Superman "interesting" by changing his character. Make the situations interesting that challenge who the character is.
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"And this from a guy who saw Daredevil at the theater and bought it on dvd..." Ye gods!
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So all the tie-in toys are out in the shops and its Superman, and its a 12 rating, so one might feel comfortable taking ones kids to see it, so I did. Then we sit through a turgid melodrama where I don't think once we see the Reeve style cheesy grin (not even in the flyby at the end you fuckers). And amongst all this dross Superman actually gets viciously bitch-slapped by 3 low-lifes, for which the retribution is they die (by accident) and Lex , well theres no pay back for Lex. Essentially I left the cinema with two very deflated kids and feeling hugely embarrassed to have imposed this soulless, empty, TURD ! on them. That Singer should be allowed anywhere near this franchise, bearing in mind he doesn't seem to admit to have made any mistakes on SR, is quite one of the most fantastic pieces of misjudgement I have ever seen.
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never been done correctly? See The Animated Series or JLU - Luthor, when done well, is THE BEST Superman villain. He is Superman's opposite. Spacey will never be that Luthor. Spacey could be Braniac, maybe.
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Sarcastic/splash in the face diaglogue that was needed by Lane on that rooftop, you know, IF WB thought it was so clever mentioning “Gotham City” in Soups Returns (and wasn’t Metrop’ mentioned in at least “Batman and Robin”):
LANE: “you DID hear about 09/11/2001 . . .”
SUPES [in his infinite wisdom]: “Lois . . .”
LANE: [stamps out cigarette with heels, blows out remainding smoke from lips] “we coulda’ REALLY, you know, used you on that day. Not something Batman ends up stopping, right? I mean, you’ve so recently proved you could carry an entire plane on its nose and . . .”
SUPES [actually sweating now]: “Lois, I . . .”
LOIS: "Where the f*&k did you go?"
Woulda' been the first "frankly my dear, I don't give . . ." of the 21st century.
Simple. Too late now.
See? Supes Returns biased. We can probably expect more of the same?
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in this movie as well? Anyway, make Marsden Superman.
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Superman's classic uniform is NOT blue, orange and brown. It's blue, red and yellow. You know -- the PRIMARIES!??! How friggin' hard is THAT??
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likable guy in a Superman movie something has gone wrong.
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him in interviews. Looking like Reeve doesn't mean having Reeve's charisma.
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and fight a bear. Bryan Singer may bow out and give the directorial reins to Albert Pyun.
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. . . do the "World' Finest" movie -- Batman and Supes meeting. They beat the crap out of each other, best damn fight scene you ever saw (admittedly Bats would have the handicap of a pair of metallized kryptonite [see Frank Miller's -- who should also be involved in a "World's Finest" movie -- "Batman: The Dark Knight Strikes Again," AKA "DK2"] gauntlets . . . THEN do the next Superman film, opening with Kent walking into the Planet massaging his jaw, Olsen yelping, "hey, Clark, ooh, you get punched or something?" Kent: "uh, yeah, something." Man, I gotta start submitting my scripts, yuk yuks.
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Not. Fuck Lex Luthor. Fuck Donner for fucking up Lex Luthor. Fuck Singer for not realizing that Donner fucked up Lex Luthor and prolonging the clusterfucking. Fuck Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey for using their amazing powers to fuck up the character. At least I can cling to the hope that Singer will be too busy fucking up Lex Luthor to fuck up Brainiac too.
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supposed to be. Not a quasi-stalker who looks like he listens to emo music in his mom's basement.
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Jul 11, 2007 6:13:29 PM CDT
it was like Jurassic Park with just the veggiesauruses
by bannedontherun
Cue me yelling "THAT'S IT!!!" a la Lucy van Pelt in A Charlie Brown Christmas.
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I love Superman returns. Fuck all the haters! I'm going to watch it right now... And enjoy it. Eat me.
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Spacey ruined it for me. I don't care what anyone says, Gene Hackman was a way better Luthor. He stole every scene he was in.
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If you want to compare a GREAT filmmaker versus a total DUNCE, then all you have to do is compare James Cameron versus Bryan Singer, both of whom -- by reliable set reports from those who have worked with them -- are said to have equally huge egos and who always want things "their way", but there's a big, BIG difference between the two.Despite having one of Hollywood's most infamous repuations for being a budget buster, at least Cameron KNOWS how to spend shitloads of money and how get it up on the screen, thanks in no small part to his early days working at Roger Corman Productions where he clearly learned the lesson about "how" to maximize your money in relation to "what" you're actually filming. That's versus Singer who doesn't seem to have a fucking clue how to spend budgetary money, or who doesn't seem to give a shit since its someone else's money. I mean, think about it...In Singer's case, you spent $200 million for SUPERMAN RETURNS. That's right, 200 FUCKING MILLION DOLLARS. To which I say, "Get the fuck out of here! SR is a totally dull piece of shit, so where the hell is that money onscreen?" Well, I'll tell you where -- it was spent completely moronically by Singer.Here's an example: next time you watch SR, enjoy looking at the DESKS at the Daily Planet where Singer actually spent the money to make sure all the BUSINESS CARDS that are on each and every desk were properly printed up for "authenticity." Seriously, what the fuck is up with that? I guess I missed that lingering pan shot...that dramatic and insightful plot point that the movie revolved around...that required spending money to make sure that each and every desk had a little card holder, in which there were then a proper amount of professionally printed business cards complete with names, Daily Planet emblem, etc.Okay, sure, that's a minor thing -- but it's still money that was utterly WASTED relative to the overall budget, certainly on something THAT useless and small. On the flip side, you then have the true lunacy of shooting a $10 MILLION Krypton sequence that then gets cut completely. I mean, seriously, how the fuck does THAT happen? What, when they were writing the script, you're telling me that they could't make the judgment THEN that it was an ultimately unnecessary scene? What, when they were storyboarding out the movie and looking at its overall pace, you're telling me that then these so-called professionals STILL couldn't see that it was unnecessary? What, you had to build the sets, go through the process and costs of likewise creating and fitting Routh into a special Gray suit...again, more money there, all trickling away...you go and film the sequence and then you're telling me that you STILL couldn't see in the dailies that it was unnecessary? No, no, not Singer. Because even at that point he STILL sends it off for full optical and SFX work, and it isn't till it's totally complete that THEN he stops and shrugs his shoulders and says "Huh, imagine that. This sequence sucks and doesn't fit. Oh well, it wasn't my money. Just toss it. Hmm, let's see what else can I film and toss away. Hey, let's go out to the farm set and spend more time filming that FULL SIZE CRYSTAL SHIP set that we plowed up the ground for, that we're going to show Brandon standing in front of and then using a shovel at super speed to bury. Yeah, I'm sure THAT scene and set and all the money we spent on THAT will make the final cut"...NOT.Okay, now let's look at Cameron...You know, one of my favorite "street smart" movie making stories revolves around Cameron. It goes back to ALIENS when he first turned in the screenplay and a 20th Century Fox script reader/bean counter actually advised the Fox brass to pass on the project. The reason? In his report, the bean counter said it would cost an astronomical $36 million dollars to make the movie (keep in mind that back then THAT was considered a shitload of movie). As an example, the bean counter noted that you'd have to spend bucks building these expensive futuristic vehicles that the colonists traveled the surface of the planet in...and then you'd have to spend more money sending someone out to find a location that could serve as the planet...and then you'd have to dress up the location so it LOOKED like an alien planet...and then you'd have to ship the futuristic vehicle TO that location -- possibly halfway around the world -- just to get a few shots. In short, the budget is just going to explode trying to do the things Cameron wrote in his script.At which point Cameron went into Fox and said "What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not going to build full size vehicles. I'm not going to go to some European location halfway around the world to create my terraforming moon. For an establishing shot like that, I'm gonna build a simple miniature car, which I'm then going to literally give it a good shove and let it roll across a tabletop modelscape. THAT'S how I'm going to get the shot. I'm going to do it for like 200 bucks."The same was true with making the Aliens. When the bean counter cried out about costs of having so MANY Aliens in the second film, he said, "Oh my God, do you know how much it's going to cost to make multiple full-out, functional Geiger Alien suits, like we had in the first film, just so you can have tons of them running around?", Cameron said "What the hell are you talking about? I'm making an ACTION movie. These aliens are going to be darting about fast and furious. I don't want full-out suits. I need head pieces, sure -- but then I just want the actors in dark body stockings so they can actually MOVE, at which point I just need plastic molded PARTS of the Geiger suit taped down in strategic points on the stockings so it simply LOOKS like a full Alien. Why are you spending money when you don't have to? Get off my set already!"And that strikes me as the difference between these two as filmmakers. When Warner Bros. came to Singer and said "We want to revive Superman and we're willing to crack the checkbook to do a good job," Singer decided to spend money like it was water and never gave thought to WHERE or HOW he was spending the money. Hey, so long as the checks were cashing, what did he care what he wasted?On the flip side, when that Fox Bean Counter told the brass that ALIENS would cost something like $36-40 million dollars and that's why they should pass on the project, that it would be too cost prohibitive to make, Cameron said "Fuck you. I'm going to do it for HALF that money and STILL make it look good"...which is EXACTLY what he did. Cameron actually did bring in ALIENS for HALF the money all the Fox bean counters had predicted.Oh, and he brought it in on time TOO. In fact, I think he even brought it in a few days EARLY -- another thing that showed what an ace Cameron is.
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Should’ve started with Luthor having already experimented with Kryptonite yielding a liquid form that lead to a drinkable form which resulted in the past (Hackman) Luthor to take the form of Jason Stratham [!]. Yep, kryptonite-equipped martial arts. Woulda’ DEMANDED sequels, heck, maybe every season a la LOR trilogy (which I think is the way “Transformers” should go for every summer). THAT woulda’ beat the tar outta’ the seduction of the old lady, which was kinda’ tasteless even for Luthor (I just kept thinking, what? That entire rich family couldn’ta hired someone to kill Luthor?). A real Luthor vs. Supes fight. The end, part II.
Heh. Maybe Hollyweird needs to stop with the “who you know” thing when it comes to writing these things. Do a “script idol” for a franchise, bland or otherwise. Ah, whattaya I know; tankers still make money for movieland. -
and he thought he woulda made a helluva better Lex Luthor.
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Both Supes and Brainac are extraterrestrial in nature. One uses intelligence, the other strength to get things done. Use Brainiac's ability to hack into NORAD computers and modifying the krytonian crystals left over from SR to create an army of near-indestructible robot soldiers and you got yourself a summer blockbuster. Oh, and bring back Parker Posey!
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Following the events of SR the public worries there will be no Superman to save them the next time they are in trouble. Why not have a scientist come up with a way to clone Superman in order for there to be one on every continent . The clone has a flaw in the genetic sequencing only to create no other than...Brainac? Can you imagine an army of brainiacs battling Superman on screen? Utter and complete pandamonium.
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metallo would be perfect, we've had enough of luthor, luthor is preposterous considering he shoudl be in jail for his various crimes against humanity.
the first one had a few actions scenes. not as many as should have been, there was too much of a miscast. lois lane and jimmy olsen. i can;t figure out why jimmy dressed like hw was from the 1950's but had a modern slr camera. totally all wrong. bring it in the modern ages for heavens sake, supes needs to puch the shit out of a villian not pull his punches. great trailer for the movie, great sequence with the airplane. everything else just sucked. spacey is a brilliant actor but he's wrong for this pic.
routh is actually a good superman, he needs to actually do some superstuff to earn the name superman. the best of the old series was superman II it had the right nemesis for supes. we need devestating villian who will cuase havok. -
A film made over 10 years ago, mega $100+ million budget for that flick?? Yeah, that Cameron knows how to manage money. :-/
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Me like, me like GLENN_THE_TOOL's (others'?) assessment that Supes don't need kryptonite to down his @$$. Yeah, isn't he supposedly susceptible to earth magic as well? Magic on other planets? Ooh, Constantine vs. Supes! Yeah, how 'bout a campaign for non-kryptonite Supes film?
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You know I'm not jumpin on some bandwagon, I have my own views on movies. But fuckin hell what happened with Superman Returns was worthy of a criminal investigation. Never have I seen a director or studio or even writers take such a fuckin huge property and just turn it to complete and utter shite. It's not watchable lets face it, once is enough for anybody. The pace is all over, the action is non existant, the cast is poorly directed and certain members mis-casted. I just cant find a single positive word to say and thats a real shame. Forget the whole kid plot line ruined it forget the pathetic Lex Luthor takin of the world plot line runied it...fact is doing this as a direct sequel to something a modern day audience can hardly remember (except us geeks) is a fuckin disaster. Why was it done and who said it would be a good idea to do it a sequel? You restart a franchise you dont say "oh well its a sequel but ignore everything after superman 2" thats just pissing on someone elses work be it good or not. Total rookies, X1 does not stand up I agree, X2 is fun but it doesnt call for a major wank fest does it? You know i'd sooner watch Fantastic 4 than Superman returns again at least it knows what it is, popcorn shit that wants a HUGE opening weekend.....Superman Returns didnt know what the FUCK it was and I will not return for a sequel no matter what, sorry but you either restart it or you just get the hell outta here. Thanks, I've been meaning to voice my views on this for a long time.
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YOu really think the dark knight is gonna suck compared to superman returns?
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What, why?, SR is am amazing film, it sadly requires the audience to think along with it, so it was doomed from the start.
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Character - i want to see Lois and Clark banter, ithey didn't have a single scene alone together in SR, it was hard to accept he even liked her as she was so cold and dull in the film.Tension - even the best action scene in the SR; the shuttle crash was un dramatic. It looked brilliant but compare it to its sister scene in Superman the movie. That was on a much smaller scale but even now my heart is in my throat when Lois is hanging of the edge of the building and then she falls........and then all of a sudden Sures catches her and the music kicks in......the hairs on my neck are standing on end just typing this.I want to feel excited about superman, i want to fall in love with Lois and Clark.Now singer has introduced her fiance and son i feel that singer is going to have a hard time getting back to that magic chemistry.Especally with such a dull, wooden actor like Bosworth.And Routh......yes he looks like Chris Reeves but why is that important?Why try and have continuity in some sections but then set the film 6 yrs after superman 2 and have the actors look younger?If you look at Reeves his neck is wide, it is a straight line down from his ears into his shoulders.Routh's neck curves in, it makes him look skiny and young.He is great as Clark but kind of pathetic as supes.
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it was a re-make of the original with all the heart taken out.I admire Singer and believe he had good intentions but he got so caught up in homaging the original he failed to make a dramatic film.Yes it is more intelligent that a lot of hollywood fare but it hardly required you to think much.Did it ever make you jump up from your seat and punch the air the way the original still does?Was Bosworth as much fun as Kidder?Why have Spacey play Luthor like Hackman except without the humor? Why not make him dangerous and scary if you want to make him more serious?
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for a man with that user name your level of cynicism toward the Dark Knight shocks me. seriously...movies a year away man, and from one and a half kinda pictures of the Joker youve iven him that nickname? Frankly-BB had its flaws but was class, and although I was skeptical about Ledger he looks cool-not the same old same old Joker, but an interestin reinvention...but then again I cant say for sure cos the movies A YEAR AWAY and weve seen fook all to jude it on...sorry to vent man, but...ya know try to have some faith that the thing will rock...
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Not only would that pull in the wrestling crowd, but it would ease people's doubts that they aren't ever gonna have a real slam bang Supes flick. RECAST, AND REBOOT!!!
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BB had so many flaws but is still an amazing film.I can't think of another film with as many problems that ids so succesful. Imagine how good DK will be if all these problems are ironed out.And with the Joker...I too wanted a Killing Joke or Animated series style Joker, i wanted Adrian Brody to play him and have a big skinny hook nosed creepy Joker.But then i thought why just copy what has been done already. Why not try and do something new? If no-one ever tried new approaches then we wouldn't have the Jokers seen in Killing Joke or the Animated series.There is no logical argument that can be made to why Nolans Joker could not be even better than any that have gone before.
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Have Superman go toe to toe with Zod and Brainiac with Lex pulling the strings in the background. Create a “no win scenario” where Superman can save Metropolis or his son but not both. The kid dies and we see The Man of Steel like we’ve never seen him, utterly broken, enraged and ready to kill those “ Kryptonian bastards that killed his son” Zoooooood!
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Superman returns was complete and utter shit- a wasteful ,pretentious ,depressing and shockingly awful peice of fucking garbage. Mc G and brett ratner both came close to directing the film and although many of you hate those guys, i think that they would have made superman returns far more entertaining and worth its price tag than singer did.
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'Oh my god... that sign/building/rock is going to fall on us... oh supes caught it, phew!'I want dynamic action, very little of SR made use of todays effects. The reason supes just mainly caught or blew stuff in the original was becasue that is all the effects at the time could handle.I don't want him to go makrix style but i want to update his movement in the way the Spiderman and Hulk changed the way you thought about how spidey and Hulk could move in live action.
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htey would have updated the look and style and action.My problem with SR is that it is at no point bad or embarrising, it just has no spark or fun or tension.I don't hate it, it is just meh.I waited over 10 years through many stalled productions and in a way i would have rather had an utterly embarrising shit film than one i find hard to hate but hard to ebjoy at the same time.I think many of us battled many of the changes other directors wanted to bring to the film but now we have a film that just copies what Donner did.Micheal Bay would be brilliant for Supermans action scenes. Even his slow motion American flags would fit in. Shame he would rape it of any soul.I think someone like Jackson or Speilberg would be perfect.
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aaah, the Jackson superman movie...such things as dreams are made of....
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SR video game? The trailer came out before we had really seen any action out of the film and it had supes flying through the city at increddible speeds, turnig and flying up the side of buildings on a dime.I saw that and thought, 'wow, if that is what the movie looks like it'd be great'.But no, one action scene with the plane and then crap 'lifting things' for the rest of the film.
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Kragmose- I think you got my point exactly... I bought the Daredevil dvd... Did NOT buy Superman Returns... For an ex-comic book fanatic, this could've been viewed has a "low blow" but given the fact that Singer ripped the soul right out of that movie.. I did not want to waste more money on it.Then WB gives him another Superman film to do, given the fact that it grossed 391M$ (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman06.htm) WORLDWIDE instead of hitting the 500M$ mark that should've been given the fact that Supe's was one of the biggest movies that fans wanted back on the big screen. WB just rapped themselves.superninja - Gotta agree with you too, Lex was never protrayed correctly and yes they did get the Airlane sequence down to what makes a Superman. We have to agree that the scene howerver got my thumbs up because of the effects not the story line or substance. That was the "Here you go Supe's back in town" scene that should've made Luthor come out of his boat and freak out enough to want Superman's head on a silver platter. But no, all Singer does is crap on that character too.SPECTRE007 - Gotta say that I enjoyed parts of Benchwarmers, you gotta see it for what it was worth. You know this movie is purely stupid and goes for the easy ending, and whatever is in betwween should only be viewed out of pure fun. Nothing more. You can't expect a strong storyline from this, it's just a layed back comedy and that's all. Basic Instinc 2, well I didn't see it but from what I understand it kept true to the caracter of the first movie, so I gotta give them a bigger note than Superman Returns... Sorry.I'm not downplaying anyone who actually liked the movie by Singer, but you have to know Superman the comics and what has been done with the character over the last 20 years to make him a little bit more human, more substance and less superpowers compared to the 50'sReeve's Superman was one that was right out of the 50's and 60's comics and was well done for the 1970's, it was flawed by today's visions of movie making, but it worked for that time.Singer had to read the last 10 to 15 years max to revamp the character for today's standards. Byrne did it in the 80's or 90's (can't remember but I like what he had done in his man of steel series), he made him less powerfull, more human, gave him a protective aura that protects his suit but not his cape, switched the Kryponian look and introduced the fact that Jor-El sent him here because facing the destruction of Krypton he would be a god here. Litle things that just gave the character more substance. Ithink they re-invented again in the 2000's but I wasn't buying comics when that hapened. Singer should've thought of that before going into the project.Hell Kevin Smith would've done a better job if they would've let him write a storyline without crazy obligations from Peters. Hell given the chance, I think most of us would've done a better script because most comments here show a side of Superman that made him great, unlike Singer and his double-mint-tweens who destroyed the character.I still can't believe that Singer is still on for the next one. I'm joining the Boy-cott of the movie that's for sure.
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cos I am-maybe it'll have Brainiac in it and Singer will learn from his mistakes...sure its not going to be The Dark Knight, but it somethin to look forward to....
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1. They kill that little super-bastard, thus enraging Supes and maybe having him fight a SuperVillain (I know people say Doomsday isn't that great, but he could kill Supes at the end or the kid).2. Just have something that rivals Supes powers, and I hope they don't bring back Zod.3. More action, that goes without saying.
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in space. That's what we need, is an epic space adventure. If not Superman then they need to do this with a Green Lantern film.
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especially BSB and Superninja if your online... i had my own little super kid last week! His name is Matthew.Take a look...http://tinyurl.com/yu3pq5
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even Singer was a tad dissapointed with the film.I thought it looked great until i saw it.I can imagine that he was so focused on the details and look and homaging that he forgot that it needed excitement.I still have confidence that he can make a great sequal.
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Partay!
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is too easy a choice for Lex, i want someone who i couldn't initially picture as Lex.Maybe cruise or Eric Bana with a shaved head.
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...I'm just not interested. seriously, that will bring everything back to working order, and will also make superman returns worth watching again.
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he just WASN'T superman to me. what was all this pre-release bullshit of how much he looks like reeves??
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doesn't have a naturally broad frame like reeves did. He can only beef up so much without looking stupid and so he is at his biggest realistically.Bring on Jim Cavizel I say.He has the chizzled looks and depth. I think supes shoud look very typically good looking but at the same time very wise and powerful.Routh just looked to young and innocent.
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He is. That's it. Enjoy it.
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you are making no sense. and talk of ambition? what was the ambition in superman returns. you saying transformers had no ambition, the fact there is even a live action movie suggests ambition, alot of people are flocking to see it just because of the fact of live action transformers, you know how impossible the idea was for the longest time, the fact it exists and many scenes like starscreams air battle and starscream taking out ironhide and ratchet, jazz taking on devastator are in the film and work scream ambition. the shit had never been done before. Fuck you dumb cunt.
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Looks like Superman: Man of Steel suffers from the infamous "Unnecessary Subtitle" syndrome: when a movie series that previously did not contain subtitled names suddenly feels the need to make a new installment sound more literary (apparently). Note that film series that have had subtitled names from the beginning are exempt (Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, etc). But any other time, whenever a subtitle pops up in the new installment of a series, you know everything you need to know about the movie immediately. See: Highlander 2: The Quickening, Blade 3: Trinity, Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift, Halloween 3: Season of the Witch, Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo, The Crow: City of Angels, Alien: Resurrection, Superman IV: Quest For Peace... I should write a thesis on this topic. ^^;
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...he'll cast Joseph Fiennes as Zod and make him wear Terence Stamp's black and fluffy disco suit.
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choice a kid would make.......Singer just serched for someone who looked like Reeves instead of finding someone who could embody the role.
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the action in Superman Returns, for what it was, was filmed great. It was exciting saves. Now for the sequel we need something bolder. We need ambitious fight sequences. Like Wolverine vs. Lady Deathstrike but BIGGER. We need Superman getting knocked through walls at the hands of a supervillian. We need aerial one-on-one fights. We need fight scenes like in the J.J. Abrams script except without those ridiculous changes he made to the characters. I don't care if Lex is there, but we need a NEW villian BAD, one powerful enough to take on Superman in a fight.
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He was hamstrung by Singer's devotion to Donner's movies. He couldn't put his own stamp on Clark Kent/Superman because Returns was a sequel to Superman I and II- he was stuck doing Christopher Reeve, what else could he do? I wish they would do a HULK and reboot Superman. Keep Routh. Anne Hathaway as Lois and Billy Zane as Lex Luthor. Use the modern Superman from John Byrne to present day- especially Jim Lee's interpretation.
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MELTING OWL FO LIFE YO.
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Like he made a great and criminally under-used Cyclops. Too bad it could never happen now, unless it's revealed that the Superman in Returns was Bizarro and really was stalking Lois, and the real Superman's new secret identity was Richard White the whole time. that would be a neat twist.
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at first i thought they where making it just for money, thought they where trying to do a fantastic four job.While the Transporter films where fun i thought Louis Leterrier had no real tallent. Then I saw Unleashed (Danny the Dog), not only did it have brilliant martial arts but also real depth and heart and brilliant preformances by Bob Hoskins and Morgan Freeman.Then i realised a martial arts director is a great choice for a Hulk film. He will know how to make brilliant fight scenes and this will be ideal for the Hulk.He should get jet lee to do the motion capture for the hulk.Then when they annnounced Edward Norton, Liv Tyler, Tim Roth and William Hurt.I loved Ang Lee's take on the Hulk but i am excited about seeing a more action packed version.
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CHECK COAXIAL FOR TEH SKINNY!!!
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Jesus Christ.
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...sorry fans, you are right, we'll do a do-over. When I first read of a Hulk do-over movie I was convinced they would make a half-ass direct-to-DVD looking thing starring Caspar Van Dien but when they announced the cast - Edward Norton and Tim Roth!- I knew they were serious. Warners should be big enough and admit they made a mistake with Supes Returns and re-boot the film. Hire Paul Dini to write the script-someone who is a fan of Superman the comic-book and not just a slavering fan of Donner's movies. Keep Brandon Routh, he earned the right to make his own stamp on Superman.
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amazingly hot!Perfect!
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loved the Hulk.The worst that could be said about it is it is a bit of a mess structualy and the end is a bit wierd.But there was so much good stuff in it is still brilliant.And it made plenty of money for the studios.I see this more as the studios just making stand alone comic book films.they should do it with all characters, even the really succesful films.I would love to see a Darren Arranofski version of Batman Year One along side Dark Night Returns as well as Nolans versions.
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story to tell about his origin. The themes and all where handled perfectly.There is a few doddgy lines and the action often lacks fizz but at least it engages and excites unlike SR.
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version, so no mark hamill then, no jack nicholson.Why just copy something, why not try a new approach?All greatness comes from doing something new...I'm not saying it will be better but you have not seen one single second of the joker in DK, you don't even really know what he looks like, you have only seen one very close up photo of his face, you don't know what he sounds like, how he moves or anything about the character yet you say it will fail.You did not give me one single logical argument as to what you don't like about the new joker other than say you don't like innovation in any form.Can i buy some crack of you my friend?
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the Thames reminded me of Superman (Reeve version) and the magic it captured.
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how could there be any chemistry when Lois and Clark are not even on screen alone for one second in the whole movie?I think Bosworth is an ok actor but she had nothing to do or say in the film to make us like her character in the slightest.Hell it wasn't even the same chracter as Margret Kidders Lois!
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Any name yet?
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Get a man to play SuperMAN.
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after the greatest actor who ever lived....Mathew McConaghy...Just kidding.He is the coolest thing in the world hon, i'm actually jut finishin work now so i have to go but i'll chat soon about how his training is going to one-day become a real life Batman.Talk soon.
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(there was a Bizarro Lois). Make Marsden Supes and just pretend SR and the Bizarro baby never happened!
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do you do anything else in life besides complain on aicn? Everytime I read something you write I want to punch someone.
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He's twice the size of Routh.
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a selective reader or what?
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across as a man. He is pretty. Superman as to be someone who can act across from Bale's Batman and have some weight to throw around. And no, I don't mean ACTUAL weight, but presense. The thought of Bale having to pretend to defer to either a Welling or Routh Superman is beyond my suspension of belief!
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Loved the training and the various preperations and flashbacks of Wayne becoming bats, as well as the cast (minus Holmes), but Chicago as Gotham as boring as hell, the action was poorly shot, the cowl was horribly designed, and worst of all Bale was laughable as as Bats. Great as Bruce, but his "scary" Batman voice was worse than David Hayter's overacting with Solid Snake. There still hasn't been a good Batman flick. Batman Returns was visually the best of the buch, but storywise, they have ALL been lacking.
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Superman. He was the best and most heroic part of SR. He can play noble and upright in a way that you take him seriously (without being stiff) and still be emotionally conflicted.
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Batman Begins. It needed more fantasy, less faux realism. However, I thought Bale's Batman was fine, he was poorly lit and the action was indeed not shot that great. However, the first Batman film to actually get the character of Batman/Bruce right.
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..smartest thing they would ever do with the property. And just think of the publicity it would garner.
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don't know if I could buy him as Superman.
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Yeah, you heard right! I liked it. Want to make something of it?
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Way up at the top of this post, Ultima Rex layed out a perfectly reasonable scenario of why Singer left X-Men to do Supes Returns and then didn’t do the movie he wanted to do because both studios had some aversion to having giant fucking robots in their movies… whether they be Sentinals or gigantic Metallos like what came out on the Supes Returns video game...Wonder what their thoughts are post “Transformers”? Also…The introduction of Kal-El’s half-breed mongrul had a direct effect on the first run DC comic’s universe. Around the time this movie was in production, DC inexplicably decided to kill off it’s latest and most popular version of Superboy. He was a clone of the original with Lex Luthor’s DNA somehow inserted (make up your own punch line here).Conclusion? Superboy has been co-opted by the Singer Warner faction. He will appear in future movies and Warner has made sure that there is no confusion about who IS superboy... At least Conner got to nail Wondergirl before he was snuffed…..Still miss you man.Damn You Singer….
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Can you smell what the Last Son of Krypton is cooking?In Singer's favor, I think that getting an unknown is always good for such a high profile role, and as far as the Joker is concerned, I pretty sure Nolan wanted the Joker, but didn't want to have to package him in a one-shot film, ala Venom.I only hope the Dark Knight kicks ass, and if I'm wrong I will hat.... no just be let down.
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Jul 12, 2007 5:27:45 AM CDT
Rewrite, Recast and Reboot or I don't give flying fuck.
by regicidal_maniac
Fuck Superman Returns.
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seriously man, beyond Mask Of The Phantasm its the best on screen incarnation of Batman to date...I for one was happy to see them tackle his morality properly (unlike Keatons version who seemed not arsed when he killed people)his physche and Bales performance. the only problems where Rachel (bad actress, pointless role) and the Scarecrow (simply put, he wasnt used enough and was dispatched too easily). If your going to whine about them re-interpreting the Joker-well dont pretend for a second that over the years in the comics that different writers havent had different versions of the character, cos I think if you look back you'll find they do-most obvious example-is Alan Moores Joker like Caesar Romero? No he fuckin is not.And you know this already. Your entitled to your opinion but to be shrouded in that level of cynicism at this early stage when your clearly a fan...I honestly cant believe that. I mean, theyve set out to do a dark and twisted Joker-theyve shown that already with the scarred face...would you rather he had Jacks perma-grin AGAIN? and Tim Burtons Penguin was a reat interpretation that he and Danny Waters created-nothing like the prevous incarnations, and all the better for it. Maybe, just maybe Nolan will do the same. As for the suit-do you know where it came from? Maybe its only at the end of the film, MAYBE theres it only crops up in a few scenes, MAYBE its the most believeable, agile version of the suit presented yet and MAYBE it will allow Batman to move like Batman...but you cant tell can you,cos theres only one photo. and "straddling" the pod-remeber in begins when the batmobiles chair moved to a similar postion? MAYBE thas eplained too-although from your magic powers youve deduced the films entire plot from these minimal things. Everyone else however will have to wait until we see at least one actual scene from the film.and if you're complaining about script-well they have a new writer in dont they? Yes I believe they do. Too many people are too cynical on this site-does nobody hold any hope for anything anymore? Like people saying Cloverfield is goin to suck-how fucking miserable do you have to be to look at THAT trailer which purposefully gives away nothing and instantly go "shiiiiiiiiite". I mean Christ almighty people, cheer up....
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instead of redoing Zod and the Phantom Zone Villians. Been there, done that.
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I mean come on now...
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ALL OVER VILLAINS YOU CAN FUCK OFF WITH... IF YOU CHOOSE ONE OF THOSE VILLAINS I WILL GO SEE THE MOVIE IN THEATRES AND BRINGS LOTS OF FRIENDS... IF YOU CHOOSE NONE OF THOSE VILLAINS I WILL DOWNLOAD IT ILLEGALLY AND YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELF IN TERMS OF REVENUE FROM ME AND ATLEAST 10 OF MY FRIENDS.
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superman fanbase and give us an action filled movie with heart where superman does some actual motherfucking fighting. Perhaps we could see him throw one fucking punch maybe? FUCK GENERAL ZOD! One of the worst villains ever in terms of adapting him to a movie..... you want some scary ass shit (not some balding russian) like Darkseid, or brainiac, or doomsday... something that will make the audience piss themselves because they're not only afraid for the people of metropolis but for superman as well. SEE YOU FUCKED UP WITH SUPERMAN RETURNS CAUSE I WAS NEVER AFRAID FOR SUPERMAN EVEN THOUGH YOU MOLESTED THE MOVIE WITH KRYPTONITE I WAS NEVER AFRAID SUPERMAN WAS GOING TO PERISH.... JUST AFRAID FOR METROPOLIS AND EVEN THAT WAS STRETCHING IT! YOU NEED TO FUCKING MAKE US AFRAID FOR SUPERMAN'S LIFE!! AND THE ONLY FUCKING VILLAINS THAT CAN DO THAT IS DARKSEID, DOOMSDAY, AND BRAINIAC.... CAUSE THEY CAN FUCKING MATCH HIS POWER... AND AGAIN NOT SOME DUMB FUCKING BALDING RUSSIAN! GENERAL ZOD ISN'T SCARY... HE'S BORING AND STUPID LOOKING. VISUALLY BRAINIAC, DARKSEID, AND DOOMSDAY ARE WHAT COUNTS FOR A MOVIE... IN THIS DAY AND AGE WE WANT SOMETHING VISUALLY EXCITING NOT BORING ASS FLYING AND LIFTING.
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...which I really hate to say. It had its moments but really failed to payoff when Supes finally confronted Lex. They chatted for 3 minutes and the Kumar and the boys kicked his ass like some punk in a school yard. Yawn. And that completly (thrown in at the last second) stock scene of the rooftop robbery getaway seemed like they realized the movie was a little thin on action so they threw us THAT lame bone. No context. I only saw it once in the thatre which shocked me cause I thought I'd watch it countless times by now. I think Singer knows what has to be done. I'm sure he'll jack it up for the sequel.
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I WANT TO SEE DARKSEID!
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That movie, Superman Returns was a putrid shitcake. Sans some spectacular scenes (which, with given technology should not be surprising) and some good casting, it was a joke. Unwed mothers with Superman, a bastard child - come on!! This is Superman. Truth, Justice and (American) Way... not a bastard creator. And enouhg on the religious references that were not even slightly subtle. Come on!!! This was a bad movie and that's that. Makes me mad when a site of self professed geeks seems okay with this movie. Watch Spidey2 or Batman Begins to understand what we need ... A remake of 1978 movie was not the answer. A nod or two .. or even three is one thing. A remake is not a new movie. Total bullshit!
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Lex is actually a pretty great villian, which is why he's become a little overused. I wouldn't mind seeing him return so long as there's a second threat from space. An epic tale on Apokalypse would fucking rule. Keep things off of Earth for a while. Spaaaaaaace!
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Jul 12, 2007 9:45:56 AM CDT
Luthor will not be the only villain for fucks sake.....
by robots in das guys
Dougherty or the other guy Harris, whoever is writing the screenplay said they he was interested in Brainiac apparently and they want to give it a more sci-fi feel to the thing. Also, they are using that Return To Krypton sequence hopefully....They better!
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Welling does not look like a man because he is "pretty" ?? WTF. Of course I kind of loathe Smallville no never mind...
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I knew he was a bad guy because he was listening to classical music. Evil genius bad guys always listen to classical music. Unless they are from another time and part of a race that has mastered time, then they like to listen to 20th century earth pop.
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Captain Picard listened to classical music all the time in his ready room while commanding enterprise and he wasn't an evil genius......
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Superman: Superstalker
Superman: Bastard Sons
Superman: Tight Red Undies
Superman: Ultragay
Quick, someone write an article called "Why The World Doesn't Need Another Singer Superman Movie" -
At the end of "SUPERMAN RETURNS", Clark could've dusted off his hands as if it was all just a piece of cake...and it would have felt right with the movie. ***Big...freakin'...deal.*** If you want my butt in the seat for more than one viewing and if you want this flick to be worthy of a dvd purchase for someone like myself (unlike "SUPERMAN RETURNS"), then you had better test him like never before. Give us some Michael Bay worthy effects, too.
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Well Luthor better not be the only villain. Superman II: We Really Mean It This Time needs to have testosterone laden action. Superman Re-Fucked fell flat at the theaters. If people are not jazzed about part 2 the movie will tank in Waterworld perportions. There will be no carryover into the second film.
Dougherty or whoever is writing this needs to convince his studio exec asshats that he doesn't want to write a shitbomb. Because they were the ones who gave us that episode of Days of Our Lives.
Darkseid, Brainaic or some other ass-kicking villain is needed.
No Doomsday, he sucked balls along with that contrived Death of Superman storyline. Doomsday was a gimmick not a character.
With a great franchise comes great responsibility.
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You can't be serious in pointing to the 'phenomenon' nature of Burton's first Batman movie as a point of advantage over "Batman Begins", can you? 1989's "Batman" was the first. It had tremendous hype and great marketing. "Begins", while a reboot, was also the fifth Batman movie in 16 years, and was only 8 years after that franchise-wrecking turd "Batman & Robin". That abomination made Batman a joke again with the public. I don't think anyone expected "Begins" to get close to the inflation-adjusted business the original did. Still, it went on to be a big hit ($200 million is still impressive) domestically, and did okay overseas. Some were predicting a quick box office death after its less-than-spectacular opening, but it defied those predictions with excellent box office legs brought about by excellent word of mouth. Of course "Begins" is not perfect -- the origin part should have gone deeper into his training, only the dock fight scene should have used that hard-to-follow editing style, the suit was still way too restrictive, Rachel was a mostly worthless character -- but it is far and away the best Batman movie yet. It 'gets' Batman a lot better than Burton's movies ever did, and while I think Keaton did surprisingly well, he is totally unbelievable as a world class ass-kicker. As far as "The Dark Knight" goes, I wasn't crazy about Ledger either, but I'll withold judgement on that one. The suit has improved. He can finally turn his head! And it only took WB 6 movies to figure that out. And it looks like there is a fabric-based suit beneath the armor. I agree that it is still too bulky and busy looking, but if I'm right about the fabric undersuit, then at least he will be able to move better. As far as Routh and Bosworth being the biggest problems with "Superman Return"...you're way off. They could have cast Lois better, but Routh was fine. The problems were the writing, and the plot, and the decision to carry on from Donner's universe and ignore the superior visions of the Superman universe that came with and after the Byrne reimagining. Maybe the flaws of "Begins" have gotten something of a pass compared to "Returns", but there are at least two good reasons for this; (1) the flaws of the latter are much greater, and (2) Begins reset things to a good place so that there is hope going forward (we'll see if the hope is realized next year), while Returns put the Superman movies in a bad place going forward. Singer made a mess, Nolan did not. Creatively speaking, WB should pull a Hulk and do a reboot, but that could prove to be a commercial disaster.
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Superman: Return of the Real Estate Agent from Hell
Superman: Even More Jesus Symbolism
Superman: Lifting More Heavy Objects
Superman: Return of Lex's Mute Henchman
Superman: 2 and a half hours of more melodrama! -
I guess it is pointless to argue about the merits (or lack thereof in your opinion) of Batman Begins. You won't convince me. I won't convince you. Of course, you're wrong and I'm right, but its all subjective. If the flaws of Begins ruins it for you, I can't see how you can ever bear to think of the 1989 orginal. As far as box office goes -- $200 mullion is very good. I don't know why you'd dispute that, especially in light of the obstacles Begins had to overcome which had nothing to do with the actual movie itself. I wouldn't go so far as to brag about it, but it was a very good showing. And yeah, some crap movies make a lot more money, but so what? Do you think that if Begins had been the perfect Batman movie (in your mind) that it would have done much better? Actually, in 1989 the avg ticket price was about $4, in 2005 it was $6.4, so its not a doubling. Of course it is still true that the first Batman did a lot better and sold many more tickets, but again, do you not think that the novelty of it had a lot to do with it? Do you not think that that 5 Batman movies in the preceding 16 years, plus the turd that was B&R, dampened demand for a new one? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you admit earlier that yours is the minority opinion on Begins? Good for you if it did, because its true, and that is one of the main points I was getting at in my 'dumb' argument; most people did like Begins. If it was as disappointing to the general audience as it was to you, then it would have collapsed at the box office instead of showing the good legs it enjoyed. Begins has rebuilt good will towards the Batman label, and that should serve TDK very well. To most people, Begins was not a 'flawed reboot' that gives them hope for better things. Instead it was an excellent reboot that gives them reason to believe that its sequels will also be excellent. I don't think that is the same for Superman, but I could be wrong. The other part to the 'dumb' arguement is again based on opinion. The foundation laid down in Begins, IN MY OPINION, sets things up well for sequels creatively and from a story point of view (and of course they have a near perfect cast). With Superman Returns, the presence of the kid, plus with Lois being basically married, plus another horrible version of Lex, leaves it in a bad place creatively. Those will be burdens weighing down any future Superman movie following from it. TDK has no such baggage...and no, I am unaware of any plot points for TDK so don't tell me something that you think will suck because I'm going to avoid most spoilers for it.
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Did Singer really say that? Is that kind of admitting that Sup-Returns kinda sucked? Am I supposed to care when Returns was about the lamest Superman I've ever seen?
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Superman and the Kryptonite Restraining Order
When Lois realizes that the Man of Steel is stalking her day and night (using his telescopic x-ray vision to keep a very close eye on her), hilarity and angst ensue when she seeks the all powerful "Kryptonite Restraining Order"
Serisouly though, did it bother anyone else to see Superman basically stalking Lois Lane? -
he is pretty he is no longer of the male persuasion, just that he does not come across as a mature adult.
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of those in combination would be fine. (Also include Mercy from the cartoon and ditch the ditzy Donner girlfriends.) Braniac is not a great stand alone character, he doesn't have a lot of personality, and no resonance when contrasted with Superman. He is better "in addition to" - a catalyst. He's been used to great effect in combinations with Luthor and Darkseid in the animated series. I'd actually like to see Supes and Luthor forced to team up against Darkseid. Have Luthor team up with Braniac in this one and then have it backfire on him in the next film when Darkseid shows up. Singer does not make "fun" movies. He makes angsty movies. Which works great with X-Men, but totally sucks with Superman.
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why does Singer always reference other people's work? Is he going to lift a bunch of lines and dangling plot threads to build this movie as well? Superman Returns: The Wrath of Luthor: A bare chested Luthor steers Braniac's ship dangerously close to Superman as the Man of Steel's heat vision tears through the hull. In a fit of rage, Luthor overrides Braniac's automatic repair systems in an attempt to implode Braniac's kryptonite power core screaming, "From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!” Luthor is Ahab, and Superman is his WHITE WHALE!
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while you make good points for the most part, I really hate it when the good guy teams up with his nemesis for the greater good...Luthor is that manipulative I can imaine he could worm his way round anyone so he doent need to team up with Superman. And as Ive said before Brainiac just HAS to be in this one .hopefully closer to the Bruce Timm version where he starts as ally until Superman figures ou his true purpose...just as long as he doesnt have a robot sidekick or has to kill any polar bears....seeing as they never showed Ka-els return to Kyrpton or how he got back it seems sensible to draw the story from that...maybe he met some kind of form of brainiac had an encounter with something that followed him to earth that emerges as Doomsday...cant see Darkseid though...hes a bit too out there for the average audience who just watched the Donner flicks....but Luthor attempting to use Brainiac to his own advantage on Superman and it to go against him....Id be interested...and for all the complainers, c'mon dont act like you wont follow this films production and go to see it when for the sake of ...best thing to do is hope for the best....
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Nope, actually I DID follow Returns production and script reviews and decided that my time would be better spent waiting for it on Netflix. (I usually buy the DVD but in this case, happily, made an exception.) I really wish more of you guys would take this approach as an answer to studio suckiness. I mean, really, you can smell shit coming from a mile away at this point, cantcha?
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here at AICN is like spitting in the wind. You know what, I love the Reeves films (well, except for most of 4. But I actually do like the camp and humor of 3). I like Smallville, have watched it since the beginning, have sat through some terrible episodes and desperately wanted Lana to die, but mostly enjoyed it, especially Rosenbaum's Lex. I like the Animated Series with the fantastic Clancy Brown version of Lex. And when I saw SR in 3D Imax, I loved every minute of it, like I was a kid again. I even enjoy some of the Golden Age comics. So I like many different versions of Superman and can actually handle the differences and inconsistencies. As far as SR goes, plotwise, there were some stretches with Lex's idiot plan, and I would have preferred a reboot (at least of Lex's character. He's much more interesting as a legitimate businessman who you can't prove anything against than a campy guy with goons and ditzy women). How Lois got pregnant and all that was also a stretch, but the kid concept itself I didn't mind at all. In fact, I think that's one of the most interesting additions to this mythos, bringing up all kinds of father issues, and making Supes question his mission. I still say this was one of the most intelligent superhero films that actually questions what it is to be a hero, especially reflected through the Richard character. This film was much more about the concept of the superhero, do we need a savior, aren't regular heroic people enough, etc. The shot of the still Superman listening above the planet, and later when he's energized by the sun, are two of the most beautiful shots I've ever seen in a superhero film. I always laugh at these superstalker comments, because they're just dumb and cynical. It's Supes. He uses his powers. Especially where Lois is concerned. And it was necessary to the plot. Anyway, can't wait for the next one.
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Superman Returns was a bomb.
And that bomb will be felt in any 2nd movie with this director. I mean honestly after seeing that crap and being so exciting I think any sequel will strictly be DVD rental material.
Personally I never thought Singer was that good of a director. X-men 2 was a fun movie but still not that great.
The story & this super kid idea blew the whole return of superman story line, and destroyed unless they choose to forget it ever happen any good future movies without going even cornier.
This sucks; funny the best thing that came out of Superman returns was the mock at Halloween Horror Nights @ Universal Orlando during the Bill & Ted show. Now that was funny.
“Superman comes out trailer”
http://youtube.com/watch?v=r2XQkSq0AYs
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Seriously ... How old are you mofos? Gay this, Sucked that. SR was a good film. All you idiots want to see is a bunch of action (which I like by the way) but no heart. Routh was a good Supes also. What the hell is wrong with you basement mommas boys? All I can think about is that you maybe are a bunch of Marvel faithful geeks.
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Jul 12, 2007 2:50:44 PM CDT
surely thats robbing you of the cinematic experience...
by rocklobster800
I mean, the best part of SR was John Williams score blasting at you as titles rolled and a huge Superman logo emerging on the giant screen while your in the cinema...you cant get that at Net Flix. Although I get your point-although I dont like wathing movies from a computer sometimes I wont fork over the cash (i.e,the Hostel flicks) but I reckon Superman needs to be seen on the big screen even if you think its going to be shite-anyone agree? I mean I was coerced into seeing FF2 at the cinema (and I mean co-erced) and I could have went to the independent cinema I usually go to OR the giant fookin Odeon, and guess which one I chose. Just sayin even if you think its gonna be bad, you might as well see it presented properly and fork out a bit of cash...unless its Hostel...that almost benefits from being watched for free on a tiny screen....
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.....in quite a while. At least now that the Transformers and Bayhater schtick is played out. Cue the Singer hate my minions. I love the alternate Superman sequel titles. My personal choice would be Superman 2: Alright, who's the moron who dumped the Maroon drawers into my Laundry dryer?
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...."And the remaining prime rocky beachfront wilderness Real Estate properties". Selling like hot cakes folks. Plenty of rocks. Rocks, rocks and even more Rocks. Look a jagged rock.
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....."Who's my Daddy?" : The follow-episode - hosted by Maury Povich.
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You can have action with a good storyline. Superman should not be a romantic drama. It needs to be an action flick first and foremost, with elements of dramatic tension put in. SR was a boring life in crisis flick with the barest sprinkling of action and a laughable poorly thought out villain. I know what a good Superman movie is and SR wasn't it.
Haters have no reasoning, we have purely defined reasons why SR sucked. -
......."This time,...... Kumar Speaks"!!!
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.....boy, I`m looking forward to the sequel talkacks for this movie.I hope Harry does that stupid blog thing he did for the first movie again.just so we can keep track of how Singer's pouring another $200 million down the drain building big sets and elaborate scenes to be exclusivley released in the Extras section of the special edition DVD - coming a few weeks after the theatrical run.
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1. I am also sick of luther I think Supes needs a real villian, that will push him to his mental and Physical limits.
2. Smalleville is not worthy of the Big screen as much as it gets right it gets so much more wrong. It goes from being a coming of age story of superman to turning into Felicity and they still do the episodic freak of the week thing last year it was Meteor freaks and escapees from the Phantom Zone although Lynda Carter gets the Geust star award from me (being My 1st Hollywood crush and all) But Durance almost makes a perfect lois only problem is she's too sexy.
3. Well messi Someone brought up Bayformers and I always feel inclined to chime in on this. Bayformers was one the most Dumbest Incoherant movies I've ever seen From the action sequences to the piss poor script. If SR had a problem it's that it was Too pretentous which Could be a huge problem for Bay's Slack Jawed crowd I enjoy Singers attempt to add more of a dimension to Supermans Character. HE's not a God, He's man that was raised on a farm in Kansas He has emotions just like you or me. and playing Cop to world was tiring. Bayformers has no depth, No plot No real character, its Dumb, its loud, and If your theater doesn't come with a Tivo remote then I gaurentee the action looks like shit on a shingle. -
Re-boot this damn thing. Start all over (and NO, that doesn't mean we need ANOTHER origin story). Singer's painted himself into a really crappy corner. Just act like it was all a bad dream, and make a REAL Superman movie.
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Again I say... "re-boot".
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Then I would like for the Kid to become Kalibek and then Finish it off with darkseid.
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team up with Superman as long as it is in his interests to do so. Luthor hires thugs, why not have Superman doing your dirty work for you? Lex would never be in a position to deal with Darkseid on his own.
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He exchanged his son with Darkseid. Orion is Darkseid's son. If they did bring in Darkseid, I would just almost completely ignore the whole New Gods thing (let them be in non-interference mode).
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It broke the myth. Lois has moved on? Come on. The character hasn't been seen on the big screen in years and your presentation is Supes is a baby's daddy and shirked his responsibilities only to return and stalk? Not havin' it.
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Hollywood has to take their license. We know Hollywood will screw with Darksied and Kalibak's Origin So I figure we might as well tie the kid in there since everyone hates him and no one really wants to see him turn into SuperBoy or something like that. Besides what greater Motivatioin to make Supes Get midevil on Darkseid then For turning his son into monster, Or the the child never was his and was Darksieds the whole time. Lets just hope Hollywood doesn't totally screw it up by not making Darksied a Conquerer from a alien world. He'll wind up being a angry Janitor with a super suit.
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offers Superman a hand of friendship, as long as he will defer to Luthor. Luthor is cordial until you cross him, until he can't control you. He is a bully masquerading as a sophisticate. Whereas Superman only tries to control others when they step out of line placing others at risk.
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a bad idea if you simply must have the dumb kid involved. The problem is it means you introduced the kid just to use him to torture Superman, which is kind of twisted. Just make the kid go away and recast the whole thing and hire a director that can make a fun movie.
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and I'm really looking forward to The Man of Steel. Since it's supposed to have more action in it, I don't think I'll be disappointed.
I'm also stoked to see the next Batman. 8) -
Supes myth is a lttle farfetched You have this Man with the Entire Responsiblity on world on his shoulders and he never is supposed to falter or waiver that character is more acceptable for Captain America who has the perfect Ideal, but his only responsibilty is to his country. Supes Has the role the Worlds Protector Thrust on him. The kid aspect is a little annoying But I like the Aspect of lois moving on. There is so much that can be done with the aspect of lois being the Ex-. Will she continue to distract superman from his "duties" or will he be more focused. I think the next movie should focus on Demonizing the Boy. (more then he already has been to the fans). and the introduction of a worthy Villian.
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Lex Luther is getting to be a boring villain. Isn't he the bad guy all but one of the movies? A bit overkill maybe? It's not like the comics don't have a plethora of other villains to challenge the man of steel.
Anyway, just my additional $0.02 on the subject. -
responsible for the entire world (hence the Justice League). Superman limits himself mostly to Metropolis and whatever finds its way to him. Superman is not who he is, it's his job. Who he is is Clark Kent, reporter/journalist and simple guy (simple not being stupid, of course). Sometimes he lets people convince him otherwise, that his life is really more complicated (a natural temptation), but he usually gets his focus on what matters and things work themselves out. The most interesting thing about Superman is when others attempt to challenge who he is, to try to change him. That's why Luthor is interesting contrasted with him, that's why Darkseid is, that's why Batman is. Singer screwed this up by making SUPERMAN change. A big no no.
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Finding someone that can make Superman question himself or compromise who he is is incredibly interesting. That's why SR is lame - it started with the assumption that Superman would make this irrational decision to find Krypton on a whim, instead of earning the right to bend the character set up by Reeve (that's Singer's own fault). It's a false note from the start. Perhaps Singer could've had the same premise and made the character bend in a way that the audience would buy it, but people aren't stupid - that's not Superman. Even when Reeve's Superman did semi-stupid things like this (giving up his powers, turning the world backwards for love), it masked the stupidity by at least attempting to emotionally persuade the audience the character would act that way.
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Is Singer's Jar-Jar Binks.
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I know Lex could team up with Superman if it were in his interests, Its just I dont like it when they do that in Superhero storylines...just me personally.I think X2 got away with it barely, FF2 it was just....well, it was FF2..and it always happens in the comics-Venom and Spidey team up etc ...infact the only two I havent seen doing it where Batman and the Joker, thank Christ...I just like to keep em enemies. But I get if ,you know, Brainiac was infiltrating the worlds computer sysems and was threatening Luthor corp how Lex would worm his way around Superman...Plus Im kinda pissed that Lex didnt get an ass whuppin at the end of SR-I know its not in Supes nature to dole out retribution but seriously, the guy just endangerd "BILLIONS" of people and Superman doesnt take the five seconds out of his day it would take to track him down and kick his ass.
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Don't revisit General Zod. Who cares if Jude Law looks a lot like a young Terrence Stamp? There's no point. You people scream about needing to go in a new direction, yet all you want is to revisit what you've seen. And speaking of which, why are we even talking about Superman Returns? Save your anger for whenever Ain't It Cool News starts talking about the Bill & Ted remake. THAT is raping our childhood, not a recent flick touching on 20 year old material in a 70 year old franchise.
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some hollywood hack might be sitting readin this going "Bill and Ted....that guys right!!they DO need an update!"
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"Finding someone that can make Superman question himself or compromise who he is is incredibly interesting."
See this is what I don't get. This is exactly what happens in SR. I think the fact that he went to find Krypton in the first place meant that he was already questioning those things. Seeing Lois' article on the world not needing Superman, seeing her move on with a genuinely good and heroic guy, plus throw into that the fact that he has a son - finally a personal, grounded connection to the world that he generally sees from above, distanced. All these things contributed to that questioning. That's why the aftermath of the plane scene is so important - he has to be convinced that the world still needs (and wants) him.
And for the last time, haters, Supes did NOT shirk his fatherhood duties. That's just so fucking stupid. He didn't know he had a son - how it all came about is a bit sketchy - but he finds out and he genuinely doesn't know what to do with that information. If I had a child that I just found about and I wanted to make sure he was safe, I'd be checking up any way I could (especially if I had super hearing). He realizes that Richard is a better father than he could ever possibly be because of who he is and what his job is(particularly thanks to his abandonment issues from his own father), and very wisely (and self-sacrificingly) decides to leave his son's current family unit intact and unscathed. But Supes does say he'll watch out for him. This ultimately is the most mature decision he could have made. Instead of turning this innocent boy's life upside down (not to mention Lois's), he decides to step back. I can't imagine that anyone who makes these stupid 'stalker' and 'deadbeat dad' comments actually have children and know what it's like, especially when more than just the biological parents are involved. Superman has grown up but many of the fans sure haven't. -
One of the great things about SR is that the family dynamics is complex. In essence "the kid" has two fathers, which in a strange way connects him with Superman all the more. The themes of adoption and heritage have always been latent themes in Superman's mythology and I think Singer did a great job examining it.
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bout time somebody said it too-its not like Singer didnt think these things out or didnt have an understanding of the material...its just that it was different material from what people wanted....
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Clark Kent is part of who superman is but its more of how he see's us clark is a bumbling baffoon Clark is Supermans Vacation it's where he's allowed to have time to hisself Noone cares what happens to clark or what clark does. Superman especially in Singers universe is all th at matters.
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Where they demonized his child perfectly That season would have ended perfectly if they actually would have had the stones to kill the boy.
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SUPERMAN RETURNS 2: THE AUDIENCE DOES NOT - indeed!
"it sadly requires the audience to think along with it" Yeah, like "what a piece of shit this film is", "they spent HOW much on this POS", "a fucking kid???", "Lex and real-estate again?", yes lots to think about... "I think in twenty years time Superman Returns will be very repected (sic) in the glut of comic films of the 90's/00's" HA HA!!!! "All you idiots want to see is a bunch of action (which I like by the way) but no heart." - How about a film with ACTION and HEART which SR had neither... "but I reckon Superman needs to be seen on the big screen even if you think its going to be shite-anyone agree?" - NOPE, saw it at a drive-in with a huge screen, the flick looked fantastic - but a turd nonetheless. -
Bryan Singer SUCKS.Superman Returns SUCKED.The acting in Superman Returns SUCKED.The action in Superman Returns SUCKED.Superman knocking up Lois Lane, abandoning her and Earth for 6 years to find a planet he KNEW had blown up, returning to Earth, stalking/spying on Lois and her new boyfriend, finding out her son is really HIS and then NOT marrying her and taking responsibility for his son and just flying off REALLY SUCKED.Singer getting the chance to FURTHER screw the Superman franchise after his boring, plagarized, overpriced and virtually-blasphamous first Superman film proves he sucked all the right people... TWICE.PURE CRAP.
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Alan Horn needs his head read if he greenlights anothe Singer Superman. Returns was rubbish!
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is against his character to me. It is shirking his responsibility since he just disappears and admits it. And it is never explained in a satisfactory way, it seems arbitrary and sets him up as aloof. Especially since the entire audience knows Krypton is destroyed. Singer didn't even TRY to earn this little plot point his ENTIRE FILM hinges on. That is what I'm talking about. It sets up the whole tone of the film in a way that is a misstep. Singer of course takes it further by killing the romance and introducing a kid to manipulate the audience into caring.
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not Batman. Superman can have angst, but he is not an angst-driven character.
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Like Tarantino's Kill Bill speech. It is actually a view on the nature of power. Singer thinks Superman is who he is. The Animated Series and the comic books say it's Clark Kent or a little of both, but there is a strong defining element of the human Kents in there - he is not a bumbling idiot. If Superman is all he is, then I would certainly not view him as a savior, but rather the way Frank Miller viewed him.
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Well, Supes has left Earth a few times in the comics, but then again in the comics there are other super-heroes that can take care of things while he is away.I hope in the future we'll finally get to see a movie that incorporates most of the characters from the films like they do in the comics. Maybe in five years we'll get a World's Finest or Justice League or Avengers.
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If you see Superman as a stupid, creepy, whiny and insensitive ASS who arbitrarily abandons his lifelong responsibilities and standards, gets his "true love" pregnant and then leaves her for years without a word for selfish reasons, only to suddenly return and stalk her and finally say "I'll be around" when he finds out that he's the father of her child, then yeah... Superman Returns is the PERFECT movie for you.IF, however, you're like the 99.9% of people on the planet who actually see Superman as a hero who's actions and moral compass make him worthy of admiration and emulation, then Superman Returns was a pathetic travesty deserving only scorn and ridicule.
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If Superman went around telling people he was the father of that kid it would destroy Lois's relationship, the kids life (to a certain extent) and the perception of Superman in Metropolis. The admition that he'll "be around" indicates that he has to look after the kid, but from afar-its all about alienation. The whole point is about the nobleness and loneliness of Superman...he went to Kyrpton after years of being the only person on the planet with his abilities...is it not resonible that the guy might one day get really depressed about that and seein as he survived Krypton, try to see if anyone ELSE survived it? Just to make sure? Then he finds out he truly is alone-and BECAUSE he left to find this out rather than fufill his duties he ends up more alienated. Its ironic.And he doesnt STALK Lois...have you guys never had un-requited love? You stare at them every chance you get!! even if they do look like and 11 year old wearin their dads shirt! Its the human nature of the guy, and by the films end he knows he has to overcome it. that all said, the kid was a mistake-and seemingly continuing down the Donner line (although hearing the music was great)saddled the film with too much responsibility. Seeing as Routh lookd so young, it would have been reasonible to start from scratch-but then again thats been seen before anyway-"Clark this is Lois" "oooh, thats Lex Luthor the corporate tycoon-he runs this town" "what was that-its some guy fying through the air!!" and yadda yada yada. Only way left to go that the general audience hasnt seen-Brainiac and at a long shot, Darkseid.....
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HE IS A CHARACTER WITH SHAKESPEAREAN QUALITIES! FOR FUCKS SAKE HE WAS TORTURED BY THE KRYPTONIANS AND IS FILLED WITH REVENGE TO KILL SUPERMAN THE LAST SON OF KRYPTON FOR WHAT THEY DID TO HIM!! THIS IS FUCKING SHAKESPEARE!!! NOT A FUCKING GIMMICK!
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I MEAN THAT SHIT REEKS OF FUCKING SHAKESPEARE!!! LISTNE UP NERDS!! YOU WANT FUCKING BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS AND JESUS IMAGERY?!?!?!! THYYYYYYYYYYYY WILLLLLLLLLLLLLL MOTHERRRRRRRR FUCKINGGGGGGGGG ATONE FOR THE SINSSSSSSS OF THE FATHER!!!!!!!!! IEEEEE DOOMSDAY'S WRATH AND REVENGE TOWARDS THE LAST SON OF KRYPTON FOR WHAT KRYPTONIANS DID TO HIM!! FUCK YOU CALLING HIM A FUCKING GIMMICK!! FUCK YOU HOW DARE YOU FUCKING CALL DOOMSDAY A GIMMICK!!!
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you'd get a lot more arses in seats on a sunday....according to Celtic Hagiography even St Patrick had waaaaay more cooler powers than Jesus-he could turn people into foxes and shit, and ending up gettin really pissed at these guys and throwing them through the air. But then aain Jesus wasnt about turning folk into foxes....
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Well, I'm with you. Admittedly I'm a kid at heart, and there is nothing likeable about the Superman of SR and I certainly wouldn't want my kid to see that sham version of the character when I know there is a much better one worth holding on to. Why do all the heroes now have to be turds so people can identify with them? What does that say when heroes are no longer allowed to be inspirational? Look how they turded out Optimus Prime in Transformers - what a crying shame! Bryan Singer's Captain America, wherein Captain America stalks Rick Jones and spends most of the movie wasted staring at his hands, his bloody, bloody hands. The Red Skull opens a Nazi theme park to brainwash the minds of young Americans - will he succeed? Yay! Action! Excitement! Fun!
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Lame @$$ characters one and all. Well, Bane at least has a personality beyond just being the guy who broke Batman's back.
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theres nothing really interesting about him. I think Bane was at least interesting in the cartoon, He just went out like a nut.
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a lot more with Venom, but Doomsday is a boring character. Crappy design, too.
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I was very disappointed with this film, but I am more surprised that some people actually liked it. My big problem was that if it was five years after Superman II, why is most of the plot (98.8%) the same as the first movie ??!! As soon as I saw the end of airplane seen (which is cool in itself) it was totally ruined when Superman talked to the reporters and used exactly the same line he used on Louis on the original movie. It was down hill from there on.
Also, as some of my Spiderman buddies are asking, didn’t Superman have more violins to fight in his almost 100 years of existence in the comic world ??? Why Lex again ?????
I hope in the second movie mister Singer does not copy the original Superman II and Lex forgets about going after land and looks for something more interesting….
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Superman Returns. What you get in Returns is Superman's vulnerability. You get it a bit in the Donner cut, too, but Routh really shows Supes love and heartbreak. I thought the movie was good. Admittedly not as good as "the movie" but certainly better than either version of II. The flying looked GREAT. Wasn't too excited about Superstalker or the kid, but if ANYONE can pull off the kid it's Singer. To be honest, I think the first film is his warm up--and our return to the character. AND I think it will do better in the long run than either X-Men 3 (maybe even X-Men 2) or Batman Returns (I know there are a lot of BR fans out there, but the movie just seems like Burton is bored). Also do better in the long run than Spider-Man 3. People have to remember that this really is Superman 5 and it kicks 3 and 4's ASS. And is better than either 2. I thought Lex was a bit campy too, but a nice transition from the Donner Lex. The Donner LEx was WAY too campy for me. I got a real sense of threat from this Lex, under the surface. I'm looking forward to the MAN OF STEEL. And they definitely set it up in returns to have Supergirl. Ma Kent saying "it's a big universe". People should remember how many mediocre Bond movies we had to go through before Casino Royale. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on Singer for MAN OF STEEL.
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