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A Couple Of TRANSFORMERS Reviews For You!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey, everyone. ”Moriarty” here.
Get ready, because I think the dam’s about to break on this one, and we’re going to see a ton of TRANSFORMERS reviews in the next few weeks. There are screenings in LA this weekend, and then that big public premiere in a few weeks. It’s going to be interesting to see what people who aren’t deeply attached to the original cartoon make of this one. Everyone I’ve talked to who has seen it so far has been pretty excited by what they’ve seen, fans and non-fans alike. So we’ll see...
I got a chance to see a screening of Transformers this week and it was much better than I was expecting.
I will start by saying that the plot is paper-thin but it doesn't even matter. The effects in this movie are probably the best I've seen. The line between reality and CG is seamless. (Think back to the first time you saw Jurassic Park, then, advance the technology 13 years)
Props to Shia LaBeouf who plays Sam the lovable dork. I've never liked this kid in anything but he holds it all together here and brings a lot of humor to the table and sells it. I'm actually looking forward to him in the next Indy movie.
Speaking of humor, there is a lot of it in the movie. Luckily, it's mostly displayed by the human characters-so cut Optimus some slack for saying "My bad" after breaking a ceramic vase in Sam's backyard. (Funny how The Thing uses the same lame line in an ad for the new FF4) Other than that, the Autobots are very serious and pretty much all business when it comes to taking on the Decepticons. I liked how even some of the Autobots wonder why they can't just do away with the pesky humans but Optimus insists that have as much a right to live as they do.
Bumble Bee and Optimus Prime are the focus here and really the only two that warrant emotional investment. Especially Bumble Bee. He becomes Sam's protector and is given a personality of his own. It's funny when he changes the radio station for songs to create a mood between Sam and to-be girlfriend Mikaela (Megan Fox).
Bumble Bee and Barricade are involved in the first robot on robot battle that begins with an extended car-chase sequence. Watching Bumble Bee emerge out of a plume of smoke being followed by Barricade with all of the music and revving engines and squealing tires is chill-inducing. Great stuff! When the secret government agency Sector 7 catches Bumble Bee and is holding him down with wires, he looks to Sam with puppy-dog-like electronic eyes and it is sad, man. Think back to when E.T gets taken away by the masked bad guys.
There are other elements of the movie that will take you back and make you feel like a kid again. Mostly due in part to the awe-inspiring CG and the aura of cool surrounding the whole idea of bad-ass cars and planes transforming realistically into giant robots and kicking ass. I think Bay pokes fun at his own image a few times and I didn't even mind him using the getting-old-very-quickly theme that accompanied Lucy Liu's posse walk in Kill Bill as Bumble Bee changes his exterior from old, rusty Camaro to a shiny 2007 model. But, let's be honest folks, someone like Michael Bay HAD to direct this kind of movie. Or do you want to see another Ang Lee/Hulk debacle?
Megan Fox as Mikaela will draw ire from female viewers (jealousy) but the guys will love her even though most of her dialogue is drivel and she serves almost no purpose other than the unlikely love interest. (She reminded me of a younger, hotter Sheryl Crow) I don't remember too much from the original cartoon but I think there was a cube that had something to do with the whole Transformers story. Because here, the cube is part of the main plot. The cube and a pair of old glasses worn by Sam's Grandfather. Yup, a cube and eyeglasses.
Unfortunately, Megatron is kept frozen by Sector 7 until about the last quarter of the movie. They explain that almost all of earth's current technology derived from studying Megatron since he was discovered frozen in ice in the 1930's. Once he is finally in action, there is a cool sequence in which all of the Decepticons respond to his call and their language is translated so we can see what they are saying, like, "Barricade en route," etc. There's no time to focus on Starscream's head-butting with Megatron for superiority but Megatron does yell at him saying something to the effect of "Once again, you have failed me."
I can't forget to mention the boombox robot. When I first heard about this "iPod" robot, I thought it would be cool. Some of it is, but for the most part, he's for the kids - especially while sneaking off of the plane and he puts his hand up to shield his face to evade police who are walking ALL OVER THE PLACE! Very silly.
Despite the faults, and there are many, I did not mind one bit. This is summer eye candy through and through with a heavy dose of testosterone. The transforming is usually done quick but several of the introductory transformations are slow so you can see all of the detail that goes into it. Especially Optimus' first transformation. So damn cool. Watch the detail of Optimus' slo-mo punch into Bonecrusher's face and you'll see his eye hyper-extending from the power of the blow. I didn't actually see Megatron's arm cannon, but I was told that he used it once. I'll be amazed if it doesn't win best special f/x at the next Oscars.
John Turturro as a Sector 7 agent is delightfully (and randomly) over the top. Anthony Anderson is brought in for more comic relief and most of it works but it's a little overdone. It's okay though, both the Autobots and Decepticons take their battle so seriously that the humor is balanced.
In a classic Michael Bay move, a team of genius students (wink to Bruce Willis' team in Armageddon) are brought in to decipher an unknown sound that was emitted during Blackout's attack on the army base in Qatar at the beginning. Man, Blackout lays the place to waste! The sound is going to amaze you from this scene and all of the other action sequences. Amazing sound. The final battle sequence in the city streets is cool but some of the action here (and in other scenes) is so fast that it's hard to distinguish who is who, who is good, who is bad and what's happening. I think that's why I missed Megatron's arm cannon.
Adults and kids are going to like this movie which is why I see it making a bazillion dollars. It's far better than any of the Big Three sequels that have come and gone already. Speaking of sequels, of course they left room for one. Most of the Transformers survive-good and bad. Not much story here, but the effects and sounds are unlike anything we've seen before-it's mesmerizing. I give it a 9 out of 10.
P.S. If you post this, please don't use my username – the Memflix effect, ya know?
You can use.....Saint Hubbins
This one’s a little shorter, from someone I’ve known for a while. More a reaction than a review:
Hi Drew:
I attended a Transformers press screening.
I enjoyed the movie a lot for what it was -- a summer action movie directed by Michael Bay, based on a line of toys and a silly animated cartoon. It certainly is a Michael Bay film -- whether that is a good thing or not is up to you -- but all of Bay's signature directorial moves are there. The same bombastic music and musical cues he always uses, the illogical chases (run the bad guy's so close!, jumpcut, the bad guy is inexplicably gone), the crazy authority figure (John Turturro, in his worst role I have seen), the nonstop-shouting-as-witty-dialogue, and, of course, great production values and effects.
The biggest difference from the animated series is the addition of a rather odd MacGuffin ("the cosmic cube" or whatever the hell it was) that is not explained very well. And I could nitpick a bunch of things. But I do not think that would be fair to the movie. It is what it is -- big, loud, eye-popping fun. The robots look great. Megan Fox looks great. The characters are surprisingly well fleshed out (for a Bay action film). Despite being 140 minutes long, the film did not drag at all (not like Spider-Man 3 or Pirates 3 did).
In short, the best stupid movie I have seen this summer.
Feel free to add my post to your site if you would like.... but please do not include where I saw the film... and do not mention my name. Call me "Haisan."
Cheers!
- Haisan
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f42 sucks
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Where's my frickin' Care Bears movie?
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Haters will have a hard time justifying themselves.
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pirates 3 was good(dragged in the middle though) and im looking to add another summer movie to the list.
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Mean Maori Mean. Sounds like it'll be mint. Should get on the chop and go watch it while ya maggot then it'll never fail to please.
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Hooray!!!
I think I'll just watch Rataouille and wait for Bourne Ultimatum. -
ive yet to see one shit review for the movie you wankers have done nothing but diss from day 1.... i laugh in your face you cretins HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! your most hated director has hit this one outa the ballpark and your flames on optimus/tino bullshit G1 crybaby fucking antics have all been for nothing... DONT YOU ALL LOOK FUCKING STUPID NOW YOU WANKERS! flame on dickheads!
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so giant robots from outer space is stupid, yet we can believe a spider biting someone makes him shoot web from his wrists, pirates that cant die, bruce willis can drill a hole in an asteroid o save the world. im beginning to think people are finding strange reasons to compare movie. MOST MOVIES ARE STUPID!
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they can pick a REAL director for Transformers 2. Let's face it, Bay was about as safe a choice as you could make. You knew he could handle a big set and special effects. You knew it would be loud. And maybe he'd do some stupid shit, but the Transformers name would override that. So who's your pick for the next director? I say give it to David Fincher or one of those Mexican directors. ---- I think it's funny that Bay admitted to knowing nothing about the Transformers when he took the job. But then once he got it he went to, da da daaaaa, "Transformers School". Oooh, he must've done a lot of research for that! With that moron's ultra-advanced form of A.D.D., he probably watched one and a half episodes of the cartoons and then had one of his assitants play with the toys for an hour and write a report for him. What a joke.
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These reviews have provided a reality check. It is just a big dumb Michael Bay film based on a toy after all. The sheer beauty of the footage in the trailer lead me hope that there was something special about this film. It's kind of reassuring to be reminded that this films is basically just Pearl Harbour with giant toys.
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Did you know they actually made a toy of Starscream's Ghost?
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I'm sick of these fake reviews. You can tell so easily. They never mention anything new. Nothing about the action sequences or how monstrous the transformers are. Their vocals. I hate this crap! They're freakin PLANTS!
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Neither review is an original Transformers fan,both didnt seem to know what The Energon Cube was there opinion means ZERO.
Im sure this film looks great,actually I know it does but is it true to the Transformers,doesnt seem like it,I guarantee this film gets looked apon like I,Robot or ID4 in years to come. -
...Make for alot more fun at the multiplex than Spiderman, Pirates, and Shrek did. Which wouldn't be too hard since all three of the "threes" were overblown let downs (least to me). I'm actually far more jazzed about the movies to come then what's been tossed at us so far. And I don't care what the purists say about flames or continuity changes and so on -- TRANSFORMERS looks like the perfect summer geek film that the little kid in us has been jonesing for all year long.
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Jun 16, 2007 3:38:58 AM CDT
jeez....i hope this does not start the old tf tb hatin
by motoko kusanagi
again, 'cause I'm fed up with it. We know it sucks 'cause of Bay, flames, busy designs and whatnot. Now, move along and let us enjoy TRANSFORMERS.
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... ...because the movie sucks. It's a sad state when CG robots are more believable than human characters.
Seriously, it was a mess. And I really set the bar low before going into this screening. A few good robot battles here & there, that's if you could process what was happening on screen. The design of the robots wasn't substantial enough. Many times you couldn't make out who was fighting who, what was going on, why do I even give a shit at this point?
And this humor the reviewers are talking about...awful. not funny. didn't laugh once. Strike that, when Megatron says "disgusting" as he flicks an injured bystander...apart from that, lame. -
is hot.
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and I'm back off the wagon...
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It's going to be the biggest film of the year either way and you'll only wnd up being part of the tail-enders who "eventually" get around to watching it in its dying weeks in a less spectacular cinema screen with less spectacualr sound system. All you so called Transformers fans who are still holding some misguided loyalty to a 80's cartoon show as if its some holy grail are kidding yourself if you think you can go the whole summer without watching this film. The cartoon is ridiculous but we let all the silly stuff pass us by becasue we were young, the story in this film makes ten times more sense and the effects are stunning. GO SEE IT!
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SOME EXPLAIN THAT TO ME PLEASE. OH, IT'S A FUCKING MOVIE ABOUT A TOY!!!!! JUST ENJOY THE FUCKING THING AND STOP THINKING OF IT AS A WORK OF ART. STOP BITCHING ABOUT BAY!!! WHO THE FUCK DO YOU WANT DIRECTING, FORD COPPOLA????
GET A LIFE! -
TINO MEANS
TRANSFORMERS IN NAME ONLY!!
I find the Transformer fans to be psychos, but these reviews just confirm what I already assumed...the reason no reviewer has talked about the plot is because there isn't one. Its just CGI and I feel that ILM should be congratualted on that not Bay.
Why can't we have great action with a good storyline?!?! It's like they are incompatible now. And no excuses like 'its a summer popcorn flick' I bought into that excuse and had to watch the painstakingly rubbish Pirates 3 and Spiderman 3. -
The UK doesn't get this movie until July 27th, which means I'm going to have to work really hard to avoid any spoilers for three weeks or so in order to actually enjoy the fucking movie.
Seriously - why in fuck's name is there such a delay between the US and UK releases? Is there any logical, sensible or even STATED reason for this?
So, again, FUCK YOU PARAMOUNT! -
Most will have already downloaded it on bittorrent or something. Plus its released on the same weekend as The Simpsons Movie so it wont make nearly as much as it would have if released around July 4th.
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Yeah, it was made in America, that's all well and good, but if that's the reason, then why do, say Austria, Holland and Russia all get it on the same day as the USA? Fuck Paramount.
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Bay made this exactly like anyone else would have. Ever watched a TF cartoon. This movie is what those were. Lots of action, effects, and minimal plot.
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When plot, storytelling and FX could all exist in a film. So far I've read quite a few 'no plot, but great FX' reviews for this film.. Not that everyone getting cashback from this will give a fuck what with almost every product available in the world having a fucking transformers logo plastered on it. I know the original was basicly a huge advert for toys, but for fucks sake. Talk about overkill.
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the shitty cartoon and the toys. The comics established a more darker serious tone with some good writing. So fuck off with your 'what do you want from a cartoon' There's far more source material available than a kids show.
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Nothing more can be said about this debacle.
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After your brilliant idea with the write ups of memories from '82 in an effort to spark the imagination of the old days you simultaneously justify and make excuses for Michael bays crusade for dumbing down cinema as we know it. Sad my friend.
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word.
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Plant!
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It was made in the US... but Australia gets it on June 28th, mwahaha...
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Sure the movie is a baaaaaaad movie with insulting female stereotypes, lame plot devices, zero character development, and a lazy director- but teh 'splosion make my cock bigger. These reviews suck Megatron's ice-packed vagina dentata.
Quit making excuses for crap films. This could have been cool- but by the news, it’s not. -
but i'm still gonna see this thing in theatres regardless.
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Notice how they mixed CG and story- and somehow got a good movie? Pixar gonna kick TINO's ass.
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Must be practice. Christ I haven't seen a review yet that didn't mention flaw after flaw followed by "BUT I FUCKIN LOVED IT!". Harry has taught you all to love the smell of dog farts.
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... I'm not making excuses for Bay's film. I haven't seen Bay's film. But the people I know who have seen it seem to be digging it. Of course, Harry loved FANTASTIC FOUR 2, and I thought it was rancid cheese. Who knows what I'll say when I see the movie? I'm just reporting what I'm hearing so far. Relax. If I don't like it, I'll be perfectly happy saying so. And if I do, it won't be because I think it's "acceptably stupid." Have you ever heard me be a Bay apologist in the past ten years? The man won't even speak to me when we are in the same room because he's so sure I hate his work.
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fancy asking them why the UK doesn't get it til July 27th? ;)
(In all seriousness, I would love to know if there's any excuse for this sort of thing nowadays. It surely can't be to do with rating or anything like that.) -
You know some movies are meant to be fun to watch. Independance Day, Swordfish, and now Transformers. Fun, fun, fun.
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Because I cannot think of a single reason after The Rock why you shouldn't hate his work. The mother fucker absolutely delights in promoting the absolute worst that overblown American culture has to offer. Standing as a hero to the douche bags who would rather eat lead than sit through something "pretentious". All too willing to cater to the "Average filmgoer" who is already so fat on terrible cinema that every day it seems more and more likely they have lost any barometer for telling the difference. Single handedly shirking criticism by turning the fact that his product is garbage into an asset with the non-argument "he does what he does very well". The irony of that statement is that it's dead wrong. His films look expensive sure, but his overreliance on quick cut editing is a tell tale sign of a hack action director. Character? Fuck character. Even know it's the ingredient EVERY SINGLE good action film has. It's not even arguable that Michael Bay is bad for anyone who truly enjoys movies. There is literally nothing to like about the man, but he seems to have launched an almost teflon Bushesque image in which everything that he does so deadly wrong only cements his status further to the squirming masses underneath him. It's pathetic and scary that people just love to be so willingly gullible.
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...how phoenixmagi mumbles and rambles on in one sentence posts just like that stupid ninja giy does.....do i smell a 2nd name ? get banned or something...also funny how any positive reviewer instantly gets branded a "PLANT" ..god forbid the movie is actually good..all the haters would simultaneouly have coronaries and die from shock...the movie WILL rock and WILL be great...you want a good story, read a book, a real book...transformers, cartoon, comic or otherwise never had a good story....the comics were the worst....and NO NO NO NO i dont want no mexican directing the sequel....if this one breaks records , bay deserves the sequel or sequels....funny how no one mentioned how the first reviewer said most of the transformer, good and bad survive...but the haters prob just ignored it and called him a plant because it contradicts the "leaked" sript they all read last year ...this movie will rock, break records , and kick spiderman and pirates ass....no one will touch it....guarantee
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Bay is the George Bush of Hollywood directors!! It doesn't matter how bad he fucks up or pisses all over what is right and good, some people are gonna wave that flag anyways and scream "But we're winning!" All while the man hates them in silence.
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if u want to "truly enjoy movies"....watch lifetime, they have tons of character and story driven movies and TV shows for your very obvious sensitive side... real men and real transfans want to see explosions and giant robots kickin ass..... armageddon was very character driven and was a great story...wasnt all special effects, so beyond "the rock" he did have several movies that were great...as much as it may kill u, box office receipts determine a movie or a directors success...and as far as i know all of his movies, including pearl harbor made major green....who cares if he aint touchy feely enuf with your childhood...get a hanky and cry.....im surprised u dont recommend woody allen direct the sequel...
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of course it wil be fun... these haters dont want fun....they want to be touched deep in their childhood souls.....they want to cry and hold a candle in the air as their daddy optimus prime talks...waaa waaa.....also of note for all u frank welker fans that say he was the only one that should be megatron...i think all the haters would be surprised to know he only voiced megatron for 23 episodes while someone else did the majority of the eps...dont believe me ? check IMDB......but you are right , movies are supposed to be fun, and a transformers movie should be fun..and most of these serious fans in here are first to say how they beat off to megan fox whenever they get the chance....so eye candy is ok as long as its wankable, i guess..
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What the hell kind of beer goggles is that reviewer looking at Sheryl Crow through? Apples and oranges, apples and oranges.
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really you are such a fucking whiny bitch. fuck off and let other who want to watch the movie do so without your constant fucking bullshit.
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what a load of crap, although I do agree industrykiller is getting far to emotional over a film which had nothing to go by but a stupid cartoon. I dont think anyone asking for stories or character should be ridiculed...matter of fact I think the opposite while losers who can enjoy a film for explosions and big robots should be made sterile.
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Oh, how convenient that the most highly rendered, least blocky, and most realistic set of a female genitals ever on a CG robot that isn't designed to sell toys like its 80's predecessor goes unmentioned in this and all other reviews posted on this site so far. Seriously, there's a lot people lining up to take off their pants, turn off their brains, eat some popcorn, and watch stuff blowup, but the most relevant CG rendering of our era has been masked in shadow by Bay, Murphy, and the studios (probably Harry too). What's the big secret? All everyone wants to know is if the PUSSY ON OPTIMUS is really deserving of all the hype. If it underperforms in this film, don't make excuses for it, just be up front about it.
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even these "good" reviews basically call the movie a plotless pile of shit.
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Seriously, if I want to read people trying to review above their pay grade. I will go read Slate. Seriously brahs...Seriously. Yep, feel that reference, but it's not a MACGUFFIN. It's what this entire TRILOGY OR SAGA will be based off of in the future. They believe they are at an end. When really...this is just the beginning.
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Those reviews say the same fucking thing as all the rest. Bad script, cool special effects! I could have written that same review on day fucking two of the transformers overhype machine. Fine, whatever I get it now. I get it.
Apaarently I WAS asking for too much when I said there should be a good script. Well, shame on me. SHAME!
There is something wrong here. I don't know what it is. It might be the stench of lowered expectations...or the sweet refreshing scent of take what you can get. Those things are the things that bother me. It is like the TBers at AICN have just given up. We the "rabid ferrets in a sack" are letting a movie pass on some flimsy shit.
You think Bay can make a cut where he just cuts out the 80% of the movie that sucks (All the positive reviews say so) and features the cool robots killing each other? Doubt it. I could be out of the theatre in a half hour... -
Greats effects: TICK. No plot: TICK. Terrible actors: TICK. Terrible director: TICK. Movie game tie-ins: TICK. Unfunny cheesey dialogue: TICK. Avoid this shit at all costs: TICK
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To be honest I'd say the best you can do is the relationship between Sam (Spike) and Bumblebee as his first car like in the film.
I've read every Transformers comic, seen the TV series and the animated movie and I honestly can't think of a single story that'd make a decent movie script.
The story for the original movie was awful - Unicron attacks Cybertron then he's defeated. It then goes on to claim this marks a new era of peace with no possible basis for why that would occur.
Some of the comic stories were good, especially the likes of Target 2006, but none of them would make a decent movie (maybe as a sequel, but not an origin story).
Oh and to address the issues this should have been set on Cybertron with no (or minimal) humans like the original movie - no one would get that except hardcore fans. The appeal is they turn into Earth vehicles so they need to be on Earth to do that.
I think people should stop complaining about the story - it's Transformers and I think the story I've heard this movie is about is about one of the best they can do. I mean look at ET - all the script is about is a boy who befriends and alien that wants to "phone home". The movie itself is a completely different experience and you know there's a lot more to it than the basic plot. -
Seriously guys, you are all going to burst a blood vessel if you dont chill out, Take a Deep Breath and say to yourself its only a Movie. If I don't like the look of it I wont go see it. Theres no point in getting myself worked up for it.
Personally I am looking forward to it, No I am no a Bay apologist but quite frankly I cant think of another director who could handle the explosive action that this film requires.
Dont know why the first Reviewer said the Ang Lee Hulk was a debacle. Seeing as it is one of best Comic Book adaptations. But then again I am not going to stress myself out over it. -
He's like the AntiChrist. He inspires so much hate.
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Him, or Harry Potter. Can't decide who?
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I dont think its the fact that the plot is illogical or stupid but the fact that with a talented director it could still be executed well. We have seen about 10 reviews for Transformers on AICN and none of them had anything to do with the plot or characters...every single one of them have said that the plot is badly executed or just plain sucks and the acting is terrible but there is alot of explosions and fighting robots so all is forgiven. So I expect Transformers to open HUGE and than drop out of sight within a week.
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Does Starscream still sound like a pissy drag queen or not? As a G1 fan, I want to know.
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6/26/07?
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Well, that first review reads like a plant going through a goddamn checklist. The second review (or "reaction") reads like the guy was too lazy to put any effort into it = probably not a franchise fan. These types of reviews are meaningless, IMHO.
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and that's all you're going to get. Enjoy your PG-13 CGI demo reel, real men. If you feel a little empty afterwards, try renting Robocop. You get to see robots fighting and explosions, plus there's an actual good plot. Oh, and they can say "fuck" and even show blood and breasts.
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All these "glowing" reviews are just further cementing my disappointment. I have no problem with going to see a movie about giant fucking robots. I just wish they didn't have to destroy the Transformers property to do it. I wish they would get a hold of something the TF apologists love (Rainbow Brite, My Little Pony) and make a crappy movie out of it, so they could feel my pain.
So enjoy your generic mindless, indecipherable ass kicking robot, retarded joke-making, no plot summer popcorn flick. DVD Release date: estimated November 12th. On Piratebay: November 1st. On my home theater: November 1st. -
From Fox Searchlight Pictures comes a new thriller directed by Sidney Lumet...Tim Robbins plays a mild-mannered film projectionist who mistakenly stumbles upon a secret cabal of shadowy men in dark rooms...what dangers lie ahead for this man who claims his innocence?
See it.
THE MEMFLIX EFFECT.
Rated PG13 for strong langage and confusing Talkback logic. -
I would consider The Matrix (which looked awful on paper...especially the first draft) a well execution. Pitch Black, Cube, Jurassic Park (the book was terrible in my opinion and so was the script), Escape for New York and Spiderman..all these films on paper don't look great and their plot is highly illogical and even paper thin but with excellent execution they all became far more than the sums of thier parts.
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that supposed to be Escape from New York...also add OldBoy to that list, a great example of brilliant execution to enhance a weak plot
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So far all the reviews I've read start out with a list of disclaimers longer than a prescription drug commercial. If this movie really is so fun I hope somebody eventually has the balls to praise it without apologizing first.
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"some of the action here (and in other scenes) is so fast that it's hard to distinguish who is who, who is good, who is bad and what's happening. I think that's why I missed Megatron's arm cannon." Why can't any of these reviewers follow the plot? No one knows what's going on, but they all love how loud and pretty it is..... Lowest. Common. Denominator.
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exactly
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I feel like peoples standards are dropping at an alarming rate. Why is it ok for this movie to have no plot and bad jokes? Shouldn't that make it, you know, bad?
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Geez, they sound more like half-assed apologies and excuses rather than 'glowing' reviews. "Uh, there's bad acting, stupid plot, cheesy camera work, elements of Jar Jar (the iPod robot), but it's got GREAT CG AND GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS!" I think everyone already agrees that the action sequences will be edge-of-your-seat fair, but what most of you don't seem to get is that the so-called 'haters' only want this 'good' movie to be something 'great'. It has all the potential in the world to be a fantastic movie, so why do you want to accept such a half-assed effort? Think of the 'haters' like high-school football coaches who yell and push the players, because they know they're capable of so much more. I don't think anyone wants this movie to suck, we just want it to be good and not insulting to our intelligence. To bring up the Ang Lee/Hulk thing was dumb move really, because there are plenty of action-oriented films out there with intelligent plots. I think someone like Doug Liman would have been more than up to the task of directing this.
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I put "glowing" in quotes because it was meant to be a little sarcastic...but I think your football coach analogy is right on! Well put!
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It could have been so much more than a painfully stupid SFX reel. Evidently that what the majority want though. It's stupid, but that's ok since the action is incomprehensible and loud.
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for the anti-intellectual masses
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Jun 16, 2007 10:03:08 AM CDT
If you wanna praise a film without apologizing first...
by derlanghaarige
...then get into your time machine and travel back to the days where talkbacks and the "everything sucks and if you like it, you are an idiot or a plant"-attitude didn't exist!
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The action is great, but supposedly the reviewer can't even see most of it because Bay uses his typical ADD camera angles/moves. That's what really has killed the movie for me...it what almost killed Batman Begins. This need to have the camera constantly moving and jittering for no other reason but to add 'excitement' for the teen crowd. What happen to the steady cam and stationary shots?!?
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Having non-black characters using black slang has never, and will never be funny. What's next, white actors wearing shoe polish and calling each other mammy? This must stop.
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there is a differnce between a review which lists some negatives (weaker performences by certain cast members, a plothole or two, etc..)But these reviews have been asking us to ignore story, acting, character devlopment, basic direction etc...all for big explosions and fighting robots. That's just idiotic...those are the fundamentals for filmaking, its like asking us to watch a basketball match but just ignore the errors, fouls, travelling and the fact that all the players are blind albino orangutans and just focus on the scoreboard which looks great.
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Oh they're still done, just never by asshats who "shoot for the edit" like Michael (I wish my daddy was John Frankenheimer so I could be cut some artistic slack and taken more seriously based soley on the namesake of a director I will never come close to emulating) Bay.
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Have any of you watched the original transformers animated movie lately? I have. It is TERRIBLE. Don't act like the transformers was a great license to begin with. It sounds like this movie is roughly eleventy billion times better than it deserves to be.
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or characterization.
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IMHO, and yet it's storyline is superlative to this SFX ridden debacle. If you think the Transformers is not a great license with an immense amount of potential and possibilities (all of which have been sidesteped by the filmmakers involved with TINO) then you lack more scope and vision than I do.
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Haha, I hadn't actually read through the talkback at the point when I posted so I wasn't really quoting anyone in particular when I used the word 'glowing'. :)
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The Cube they refer to in both reviews are not the stupid energon cubes from the cartoon that so much of you haters wanting to use it as white flag to label the review a plant! The cube in the movie is more like the Matrix of leadership in the animated movie, it's the device that first brought life to the Transformers. Quite simply the die-hards can stay put in 1980 with their toy designs and stupid tit-for-tat style epsiodic brawling between the handful of Autobots with their only two human buddies and the other bunch of brawling Decepticons. The cartoon was fun but STUPID AS HELL! This film is less stupid and makes ten times more sense in every department. STEP INTO THE A.M!! Why the hell would a 25 foot leader of an alien race disguise himself as a World War II German handgun? How can a VW Beetle make a good disguise amongst the bevy of new and fashionable cars of today? And what's the point fighting over Earth's limited resources to convert into Energon Cubes if you can choose any of the other larger, more resourceful and less inhabited planets in the Solar System to choose from not to mention solar-energy from the blasted sun? You die-Hards need to shelve that ridiculous love for your 80's childish things and simply give the film-makers credit for doing something more credible with the general concept of Transformers because in reality that's all their is left to make a decent movie from that cartoon.. a concept!
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Not new and fashionable? My wife would strongly disagree. She loves hers. http://tinyurl.com/2ymdrh
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and maybe you are right too, but i don't care.
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It's kind of difficult to make a movie of this nature people. You have to please Hasbro, Dreamworks, all of the third party people like GM, the hardcore fans, and the kids of today..Theres a big difference between the cartoons we watched and what the kids watch now. Like it or not this is essentialy a kids of today movie. They want to build a franchise not just cater to the group of 30 somethings who still remember the cartoon, and have enough free time to give a shit about this movie. They're far more concerned with making the movie "accessible
"to everyone whether they're familiar with the transformers "mythos" or not. If they had started with the crash land of the ark it would have been a big origin movie, this way they jump right in and have fights the whole way through the movie. Truth is if they had stuck to the designs and stories we remember perhaps it wouldn't do as well as it's going to. I was a huuuge transformers fan growing up Optimus Prime was the first thing I ever drew and the first thing I ever modeled in 3d. When I saw the flames on Optimus, read the script,saw the direction they were going yeah I had some issues..but they got enough right for us Cullen especially..and they exceeded my expectations with the scope, agility, aggresivness, and speed of these Transformers. Go back and look at the cartoon again and if you can truly sit through 3 episodes (that arent the original more than meets the eye or unltimate doom storylines) hats off to you. I compare this movie to Jurassic Park another fun exciting movie everyone can see and enjoy which will strech our ideas of what is visually possible. Jurassic park didn't have the most ingenious plot or incredible acting but it took us somewhere else with its scope and action.
Oh and people prasing ILM for the look and feel and trashing Bay is kind of asinine. ILM once again broke new ground and is amazing but that's all at the direction of Bay. He spent years with designers storyboard artists, and previz artists to come up with how they look, move and feel. he also buils some incredible action sequences. ILM does they're thing and makes it real makes us buy it god thier amazing...but the action is his. Like him or not, like the movie or not, what's on the screen is due more to him than anyone else. If the guys eats and sleeps this movie and invests three years of his life to making it and wants to put flames on Optimus so be it.
So if you want to sit here and say it could have been this and that until your fingers bleed go ahead. I'm sure I loved transformers more or as much as any of you (had all of the comics too for christ's sake) and I cant wait to see them in reality on the big screen. It was a massive undertaking to make this happen and it looks like a rousing success. It's the first movie and it's like nothing we've ever seen before so just enjoy it you can go hating Bay again if you want after you see it. -
GRUMPY BEAR, BABY!!!! OH, YEAH!!!!
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they think "Gee, I hope this has a love story between two humans in it." This movie has nothing you haven't seen somewhere else. Just shinier effects.
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I realize the title had nothing to do with what I was writing I sort of went off on a tangent.
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Jun 16, 2007 11:05:47 AM CDT
Yes Vern I know you do not like "check your brain"
by allpowerfulwizardofoz
at the door. We established that many TBs ago. It sounds to me from all the reviews so far that this movie is going to be exactly that and give those of us who are excited about it exactly what we want in terms of awesome robot vs robot on the big screen. I am perfectly fine with that I know you are not. It's a shame to because sometimes it feels good to let go and just be that kid again Vern. I am not going to apologize for Bay. Fuck Bay. Fuck all his movies but if there was one movie the guy was born to make it is Transformers because he does do one thing well which is action. I know that you hate his take on that area of film making as well because you said before the action looks to busy and you can't follow what is going on. You want "man in suit" don't you Vern? If I want that I watch old school Godzilla. I won't apologize for it at all. I am stoked. I can't wait. And maybe the reason people are putting up "disclaimers" first before posting on the TBs is because of all the hate that has been spewed out on these TBs in the last year about the movie from a small group of people who can't grasp the reality that this movie and the TV show were based on a toyline. So before they make their review they are sub consciously defensive because they don't want to be attacked for having a good time from watching the movie. You know what Vern I promise you I won't apologize. I am going into this amped and ready to blown away by the action on the scene.
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He wasn't even interested in the property until Spielberg approached him.
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yeah really you've seen realistic robots fighting in the real world whth that sort of voracity.Where I would like to see that movie. Is everyone going to enjoy the inner struggle of leadership between Starscream and Megatron if they werent fans of the transformers to begin with. I think my girlfirend my mom and my nephew will have a ball watching this movie and if anyone of us on this site had written it they wouldnt have.
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in most screenplays. So, of course they could've made an audience interested in the internal politics of the Decepticons. How do you think the property has lasted so long to begin with? People care about the robot characters. I'm not saying the first frame or two of the animation won't be great - undoubtably it will, ILM is awesome, no disputing it. But great effects do not a movie make if you don't care about what is happening.
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in Jurassic Park, you're blown away. By the time you get to the Velocaraptors, you're interested in the characters and Spielberg builds the suspense but your mind has accepted the dinosaur imagery so while it is still cool, it's not the same as the that first scene. Jurassic Park 2 and 3 sucked and no one cares how cool the dinos looked.
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Really because its 2007 and they were writing and boarding in 2005...did I say 3 years 2, 2 years. Regardless its a long time and a LOT of work.
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any other movie like this during pre-production. You made it sound like he's Stanley Kubrick or something.
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yes but first you have to get a large audience to buy the transformers from a human point of view...then the next couple of movies they can reallly get into the characterization of the robots themselves.
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in 2006. One year, big deal.
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Memflixgate has on reviewers. As long as they can remain anonymous, they can still offer reviews without fear of reprisal. Then again, neither of these dropped Cleveland Steamers on the movie like Memflix's FF2 review.
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happen to look like giant robots. For the most part, the G1 designs are structured to look like humans if they were giant robots. That is part of what made them accessible. Bumblebee was the size of a human so that Spike most closely related to him. It was a neat little way to do it, they should've stuck with it and made a real fantasy movie instead of more faux-realism. Bumblebee has a CAR engine - ha ha.
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oh you dont think shooting editing and post work is done by him as well. Do you think he hands the plates to ILM and says go at it..no any director is involved in every aspect from start 2005 to finish///the last effecs shot and sound.
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breaking from his usual stylistic choices and Bay has his team, so again, no big deal.
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way but the masses may not have.
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what he does but his work is totally vaccuous and I question anyone who claims they love TF bringing him on to begin with. TF has a rich mythology. It would be like bringing Bay on to do LOTR or something.
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masses, or rather a certain % of them that popularized Bumbleebee to begin with, and that was based on his original design. That design was charming and people love it to this day. So now they've completely redesigned him and have turned off some of that original fanbase and are hoping to attract more people that weren't even interested in the concept to begin with.
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first movie you have to make sure more people than us are going to see it. If you think making a cop buddy movie and taking on transformers are the same thing in terms of work load then youre nuts.
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Should they have completely redesigned Spider-Man and changed his origin so that a new audience would like him?
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...that I am seeing this summer. I don't count Spiderman 3 because it was a turd, not a movie. At least there's next summer.
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Transformers is not the same thing as LOTR . Its a literary property..much more people have read lord of the rings then who know what transformers are. Not to mention Lotr was based around humanoid character which the mainstream can relate to a lot more.
sorry about the nuts comment -
but you're right Yack it seems it's gotten to the point where you are expected to not evaluate each installment on its own merits as a film.
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were all around for generations...Transformers was a 6 year window in the eightees for the most part.
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It has an enormous fan following.
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What I am saying is that they are the same type of story, the war epic. Bay's last brilliant war epic was the underrated Pearl Harbor, no?
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looking like reverse-engineered walking junkpiles. Why would alien beings look like reverse-engineered vehicles built by humans? The easiest way to cheat this is to make them look humanoid and have the tranformations look cool and just don't explain it. They're aliens, this is not a biology class. Instead you have Meghan Fox commenting on what a powerful engine Bumblebee has so Bay can make a cheap sex joke.
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Sure, it'll probably do good in the theaters and on DVD. But after all the hype, people are quickly going to realize that there's nothing more to this then a bunch of special effects.
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for 20+ years non-stop on television. The original cartoon lasted for 4 years, then they re-edited the cartoon for two years, then Beast Wars came out, followed by Robots In Disguise, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, and soon: Transformer: Heroes in the fall... complete with merchandise.
Transformers crosses the generational gap just as easily as a guy dressed in webbed spandex. -
is a lot smaller than it was during its hay day most kids don't know what they are. ..
Yack I have my Optimus anniversay edition in a small cage, I deny hiom sunlight and dont let him play with the other toys. -
when we were kids transformers/gI joe werre the biggest things..for the last 15 years transformers has been around but its hasnt hel the prominence it one did..I know we live in our world ..but as a whole even before the first spiderman movie if you asked 100 people on the street to describe spiderman I think they all could...how many would know the transformers...
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the TF are, even if they don't know the details. Prior to this movie's release.
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,your boss, your kid sister and your aunt about Beast Wars Armada, Energon, Cybertron, The Headmasters, TF:Victory, Super God MasterForce, Beast Machines...then ask him about spiderman
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Back in 1984, you had only kids wanting a few dozen toys, reading a hugely successful comicbook, and watching a poorly animated cartoon. Now adults are collecting them too. Today, you have entire conventions based solely on Transformers. You have Generation 1 purists, Beast Wars fans, and general fans that enjoy the nostalgia, but are not militant in defining Prime as only a cab-over-engine.
Add to that the modern generation of kids, and you have a huge fanbase that knows every intimate detail of each incarnation of the characters. -
That way his filmmaking style will both be appropriate but laced with irony. Then he can make a family film but only "edgier than usual".
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own Aerosmith song.
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yeah the people we know..were here on the internet its a beautiful saturday..which I am going to force myself to go outside and enjoy riight now...of course the people we know know transformers...but what about everyone else. there are people who dont go on the net, who dont have cell phones..who dont own microwaves, people who dont have i pods or fax machines or electricity what about them.
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on this some of the comments by the filmmakers show just how much they don't get the concept.
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in Amazing Spider-Man #300. He won't know. Ask your significant other what impact the Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1 has had on the Spider-Man creative teams over the years. They won't know.
But they will recognize Spidey if shown a pic. Same thing with Transformers. Ask them details on the cartoons, they'll look at you oddly. Show them a pic of Optimus Prime, and 99% will beam a smile and say "that's the leader from that cartoon I used to watch as a kid!"
The nostalgia is there. The fanbase is there. Question is: is Michael Bay there? -
Headmasters, Victory, Masterforce, etc were Japanese cartoons that will never see the light of day in the US, therefore I didn't see the point in mentioning them in my cartoon continuity, since most westerners don't know about them. Beast Machines I didn't mention exactly because I consider it an extention of Beast Wars.
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19 year-old truck driver from Nagano, Japan who moved to America. When the truck's cab is combined with its trailer, he becomes Super Ginrai. A drone named Godbomber is later built, and transforms into a tandem trailer. When Super Ginrai combines with Godbomber, the end result is God Ginrai. He commands the power of fire, exemplified through his assorted "Fire Guts" attacks. Although the mold is that of Powermaster Optimus Prime, released in the U.S, Ginrai is portrayed as an entirely new character.
Peace...enjoy the movie all.... I know you will see it........
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that stuff still exists. He can only ruin TF going forward and for another generation.
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There weren't enough women in this movie to say it was loaded w/ female stereotypes, but I'm not absolving Bay. He did, however, load his movie with horrible african american stereotypes. There's a point where the FBI raids Anthony Anderson's house, he squeals, the family scatters, and suddenly it becomes like an episode of cops. His brother actually jumps through a sliding glass window & this is all supposed to be for comic effect. And it isn't funny. They may as well have said, "Oh lawdy, feets don' fail me now."
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The script writers, and many of the artists and CG designers are genuine TF fans and helped keep some of the core ideas in the movie. Bay and Don Murphy just had no clue what they held in their hands.
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spiderman was around since the 50s ..everyone knows him...show a 15 year old a pic of optimus before the movie. The only people who really knew optimus when they were growing up is us...and they killed him..damn that sucked
GurzEon
...a lot of people who worked on this film love the transformers..
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The simple fact is they wrote a film aimed solely at ten year old boys based solely on a toy. They looked no further than those two simple concepts. There is so much more they could have taken into account and cultivated a script from. Instead we get the lowest common denominator movie of the year. Loud, Flashy, Stupid and Incomprehensible (evidently proven by every review we have read). Potential is there for some great, smart, topical, allegorical, accessible by all ages Sci-Fi. Hey, at least it got made, right? I cannot believe how low the expectations of the masses are. What the fuck happened to cinema? And I get called a pretentious, elitist, snob because I prefer films made outside the U.S. I like to be entertained, not pandered to and insulted. Wake up and stop supporting mediocre cinema. Speak with your wallets. I would rather go outside and enjoy the day with my kid, which I will after she finishes lunch, than spend 140 minutes watching TINO.
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are opportunists. Kurtzman polled the fans at Murphy's blog for story ideas. That is not the exactly the height of creativity.
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things about the TF draft script. I am by no means PC, but it was just glaringly awful.
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I've seen 1... ONE... episode of Headmasters... and yet I was and still am a huge TF fan. I have a wall... yes... WALL of Optimus Prime merchandise including all the Prime toys from Gen 1 up to movie Leader Class Prime. I've read the comics, watched american TV, and my wife rolls her eyes at me as I try to pass the torch to my two year old son by buying him the Softimus Prime plushie and Optimash Prime Potato Head.
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her being oogled by Shia while looking under the hood as they exchanged lame sexual innuendos disappointed me. I know it's a Mike Bay film, but she looks slutty, and this is supposed to be his family film.
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Hey I'm a student of film as well I love to have my life changed by a movie and my perceptions altered and awakend. That was never and will never be transformers..there are too many people to please its just the way it is...
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defensive than the people who don't like it. I suspect because they know it's $hit and still want to like it. Kind of desperate.
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That's all the cartoons & comics were.
That's all modern cinema been since Star Wars. Commercials to sell toys, merchandise, or the latest car or othe gadget. Matrix sold Nokia phones and sunglasses. James Bond sold BMWs, watches, and suits. Produce placement is huge. That's what Hollywood does because they don't get much $ from the movie in the long run, but from the merchandise.
I worked at Best Buy when Jurassic Park: Lost World came out. Tons of people were coming in asking for the pocket-sized JVC camcorder used in the movie, even tho it was only seen in one shot. -
Hah. Im just trying to rely to you how hard it was to try and please everyone to make this movie. Its already going to be a huge success.I honestly dont think you seeing it or not is going to make a dent.
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wait I forget...is transformers church on sunday or saturday...Im not missing it am I ..I have much to thank alpha trion for,
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Sorry, just had to correct ya.
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wow, did he go back in time and ruins yours? because mine is still intact in my memories. people should stop with the melodrama already. but its funny for all these people claiming the movie will suck and is insulting etc... they sure do keep on reading and posting in these talkbacks. color me crazy but if i was this against the movie, i would have stopped reading or caring about it over a year ago. its funny to see the hypocrites here. and the whole "true fan" arguement is so old. why's it so hard to understand the concept of opinion? your opinion isnt a fact, it doesn't reflect anyone but yourself, stop trying to act like what you say is facts shared by the world. i mean really, you hardcore movie/comic geeks lead such small internal lives. and this whole "transformers has a rich mythology" argument is pointless. however far removed this movie is, its based on the G1 cartoon and nothing else. i dont care how "deep" the comics were or how rich the other series were in your heads. this is loosely based on G1 and nothing else. i mean why else do you think every autobot is and 4 of the 8 decepticons are G1 characters? so before whining again about the rich mythology, stop and realize its based on the 1980s cartoon which was nothing but ur typical 80s cartoon with good guys fighting bad guys. and i issue a challenger for the ones not happy, when you see the movie, if it ends up sucking for you, i dare you to NOT come here bragging "i was right blah blah blah" i dare you to just smile and realize ur opinion is right to you and live your life. nobody will actually do this, because the week this opens, people will come here and do it anyway but yeah.
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a lot.
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money. Could care less, really. It probably will make a lot of money.
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for no real reason. Why are the reviews still a laundry list of complaints followed by "This had to be directed by Bay or else you'd prefer Ang Lee's Hulk" or "If you don't like this you want Megatron to shrink into a gun and that would be stupid". All the positive reviews also seem to compare it to Jurassic Park, which was also terrible in just about every way I think Transformers will be terrible. At this point we know anyone who puts out a negative review will be hunted down by the studio anyways.
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but it will also eat man-bag, alot like other Bay movies. I read the script, and it's awful. Also, Shia fucks cats.
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toys if people buy into the mythology - that's the bottom line. TF then on to the next thing, the toys so ugly. They could've made even more money if they had done this right.
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i realize its a hard concept for you kids to realize but yeah. all the movies you think are good, others will think they;'re bad and vice versa. nobody is wrong, nobody is right, its an opinion. i know i know...hurts your noggin to understand that.
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I didnt say money.it brought transformers to the real world. its going to successfully introduce entire new generations to Optimus Prime..not monkey optimus..or all of the new fake optimuses but the cullen optimus..and maybe the next few films will be more of what you want..but its a success none the less.
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Are probably the same people crying over Batman's Robocop-like look or the color of Superman's outfit. Shut the fuck up.
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but Im right..just kidding enjoy the film ..dont forget the buttered popcorn.
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more terms from people who dont understand the concept of opinion. believe it or not, some people will like the things you hate, and some people will hate the things you like. they arent "haters" or "apologists" they just have a different opinion. i know i know, its making your ears smoke understanding this but such is life my children.
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Never understood that arguement. Mine is in the past. No one can retroactively ruin it or rape it or whatever. I believe/hope people just type that as a joke. TINO isn't even based on the cartoon. It's based solely on the toy line. Look at the credits on the poster and in the trailers. Based on the toy. They looked no further than the prospect of beginning a new toyline. Hasbro should have demanded more. Bungie demanded more regarding the Halo movie and hence it is in limbo now. Competently make it right or not at all. Could have been, should have been, blah blah blah..... Monty 16 I am one of the few not paying to see this. I will never see this just like X3, SR, SM3, GR, FF, FF2, DD, etc. etc. And it won't make a difference at all. I still love the property and still love talking about it.
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I love your spunk
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Just don't make a big deal out of me not agreeing. I want more out of my films in general. There is a place to have big summer movies with great special effects and great story and characters. I just think we have accepted mediocrity and its to a point that these movies feel insulting.
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good for you. at least you stick to your guns gotta respect that. all jokes and back and forth aside well talk after it comes out...but if you dont see it how will you trash it
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She doesn't want to think about movies, she just wants to enjoy them. I don't think my mom is dumb, but I say: why not make a movie that is enjoyable AND gives you something to think about? It's not a negative, it's a positive. Of course no one wants an art house TF, but the property is rife to talk about topical things and it seems a waste to drop all of that in favor of what they've done here.
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script comes back from seeing it and say that it was able to overcome the crappiness of the script, then I might consider it. But you have to also remember that Murphy has acted like a real tool and I kind of don't want to help pay him for that.
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I don't really understand this geek snobbery. A cartoon is easily dismissed as a trivial thing whilst childrens comics are apparantly revered as the holy fucking grail. The disappointment at this from my opinion is that you know it could have been so much better. I'm sure the effects and action scenes will be exceptional, but with a thoughtful script rather than a by the numbers trashy script, this could be so much better. THAT is where my disappointment lies.
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..if you look effects films that were bashed for having no premise or story a few years ago ...they look downright complex compared to what were given today no doubt. Expectations have been lowerd..however this is the first film of its kind. The story in Star wars wasnt amazing...but it took us to a new believable word and we fell in love with the characters..will that happen here who knows..You or I havent seen the finished product.
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I am getting tired of the lables too 'haters' and 'apologists' is getting used far too often. The reason I dont want to see this film is because it sounds awful...every review reads like a apology rather than a endorsement.
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Except, there are no 20 foot robots, it's CGI and everyone knows this. As much as I hate Jar Jar, you at least could say Lucas was going for an actual character. Not sure you can say the same here. There are 11 human characters given screentime and loose development in this movie. There are 13 robots. Who do you bet is getting the short shrift here? Instead of crafting characters they overanimated them to distract you.
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characters. They archtypes, they're not overly complicated, but being simple is not the same as being stupid.
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Count me in. This movie is a toy commercial (PIRATES merchandise is already discounted. TRANSFORMERS commerce has inundated regional toy stores, a trend that retailers are confident will be sustained through Christmas).
My favorite robot remains Robby (FORBIDDEN PLANET); "he" had personality and was spawned from a script that invoked "The Tempest". The TRANSFORMERS script appears to have been drafted on the back of a Burger King place mat. -
...was a summer flick. Jaws was a summer flick. The Empire Strikes Back was a summer flick. There's no reason that a "summer flick" can't have a good story.
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If people want to copy something, copy that script. Sheesh.
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I notice that one of the talkbacker's above stated that the reason for the changes is to make the movie accessible to everyone...from the sound of the reviews, no one has any idea of what's going on in the movie anyway, so how is that accessible? I totally agree that some changes for film are necessary, and if I were directing, I too would have cut out a lot of characters for practical reasons. However, one of the challenges I would have embraced would be making the robots 'real-life characters with actual personalities.' I also agree with the changes to many of the robot's vehicle modes...especially Ratchet. Even though the premise is Robots in Disguise, it's still nice to be able to visually distinguish the TF vehicles from ordinary cars during fast-paced chase scenes. However, I don't agree with the flames on Optimus or the fact that Bumblebee is a muscle car. These things go against the established personalities of the characters, especially in the fact that Bumblebee is the weakest of all the TF's. A camaro really doesn't say 'weak' to me. As for having the established fan-base of Spider-Man or Batman, well, there's almost 3 decades of material for the Transformers now, so I'd call that pretty established. It's also pointless to compare the average joe's familiarity with Spider-Man compared to TF because even Raimi encountered this problem when choosing villains for the SM movies (he wanted classic villains like Scorpion, Rhino, Electro etc) but the exec's didn't think the public would know them. It's interesting to point out however, that Batman Begins had Ras Al Ghul (sp?) and Scarecrow which were hardly household names, yet somehow, the average viewer was still able to follow that film...amazing, huh? Ok, I'm going all over the place now, but the point I'm trying to make is that, if you have a good story, interesting characters, and a fun plot, the audience will be with you all the way even if there's zero familiarity with the backstory or history of the franchise. And for the love of god, will the real haters (ie. the blind faith idiots) stop bringing up the cartoon and movie as the be all, end all of TF cannon. There's a tonne of good material out there to pick from, so stop clinging to that as some sort of validation as to why the new movie is 'cool as balls'.
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"...I'm not going to watch this because they have the cheek to try and sell merchandise on the back of the film. Bad, nasty, smelly film company people." Always amuses me when you hear people whining about merchandising. Like a film shouldn't be used to advertise other products and vice versa. These same arseholes then happily swan about the streets like a walking Gap advert, in their Nike trainers, ray-bans, and ipods. Bawbags.
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right on
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Advertising is a given. How else are they going to make money? But that's just it, they are only, only, only interested in money. Not the craft. ILM clearly excels at their craft. Bay clearly does not. Clearly to me that is. How about a story that's not beyond insulting? Kids films can be enjoyable by those other than the 10 year old domographic. Too much to envision for these filmmakers obviously. Insulting on many levels.
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Whoever actually expected a densely plotted and richly characterised film based on a fucking 80's kid's cartoon just needs a slap.
The cartoons were just cartoons; TF's stablemates were CareBears and My Little Pony. Is some frothing-at-the-mouth G1 wanker going to try and tell me that either of those cartoons was the deeply moving and involving experience they seem to think the TF's cartoon was? No, didn't fucking think so. TF's, CareBears and My Little Pony cartoons were there to sell toys. Shit bust.
This film is here to make money, kick arse and entertain. Not one reviewer has come away from this film less than entertained. Now, I don't know about you, but that's all I want from a film when I hand over my money.
Stop trying to kid yourselves and others that the TF's cartoon was fucking high-brow, intricately plotted, serious programming for kids, because it wasn't. It was a badly-animated, silly, derivative extended toy commericial.
Now, 'haters' - fuck off, and close the door behind you. Your time is over. -
That's right... I said it. Comic book movies should be about ACTION above all else.
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I'm part of the anti-merchandise crowd and I can honestly say I don't own nike trainers, ray bands or a fucking ipod just out of principle. Twat.
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You're right, the cartoons were distinctly average. However, the comic (which is so revered by the geeks, especially on this website) was very good. It did have a certain depth and better characterisation so it's disappointing that the script isso poor.
If you're happy with bright shiny lights and effects then bully for you. Personally, I want a litle more from a film. -
Think about what you just said. "Whoever actually expected a densely plotted and richly characterised film based on a fucking 80's kid's cartoon just needs a slap."Seriously? Because we expect a quality movie, we are assholes. Jesus christ man. God forbid someone hope for something other than shit. If you wanna live in lowered - expectationville be my guest. If you wanna shut off and watch the boom boom, go right ahead BUT don't ridicule me for asking for a quality product.
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It's interesting that everyone keeps bringing up Raiders as a good example of great action merged with great plot...isn't this the film that Bay believed would be a piece of shit when he was working on it? I don't know if it's irony, but I likes it! lol
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you cum stain. Don't you even read the other posts??
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You're right on the money, man...
"The best stupid movie I have seen this summer." Who else but TRANSFORMER addicts would gauge this blurb as a "rave" review?
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If you genuinely don't own one single branded product, on principle, then you are one of 0.001% of the population who can say that. You also need to get over yourself, you pious wanker.
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Right..... so you're expecting something on a par with 'The Usual Suspects' from the up-coming 'Thundercats' film then, eh? If you're feeling ridiculed, then that's your look-out; my post wasn't aimed at anyone by name. If the cap fits... etc
I'll be honest and say I have never read TF comics, but Bay's film was supposed to be based on the cartoon wasn't it? Did the comic have robots with beards and pink lady robots too? -
No. Summarise them for me.
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Sorry; first comment was for tile, second for Giant Ape Balls...
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this afternoon with my kid and we both fell fast asleep! what the hell was Eric Idle doing a voiceover in it for!?load of inpenetrable claptrap with synth rock souncrap!
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No I'm not expecting "Usual Suspects", I'm hoping for a great adventure flick. Great action flicks, Die Hard, the aformentioned Raiders Of The Lost Arc, have great scripts.
This script reduces the real stars, the robots, to something akin to the toys in small soldiers.
I for one can see the reason that they've changed the designs because, quite frankly, the robots would have looked ridiculous if they'd made them like the toys. That however doesn't excuse them for making Megatron look like crumpled tinfoil.
And yes , the comics did have pink girlie robots (never got that ) and beardy ones too.But hey, Fantastic Four had a Galacticus, a monstorous being with a love of pink spandex and a purple helmet. The X-mens Wolverine, a luminous yellow get up. Great for sneaking up on the enemy eh?
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I will not see it opening weekend. In fact, maybe I'll wait and see it in second-run at the Dollar Movie Theatre. IT can be up there with other films I waited to see like Star Trek Nemesis and the craptacular Revenge of the Sith...
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cartoon, then, and not more immature and slack-jawed?
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The voice cast for it was unbelievable!! Leonard Nemoy as Galvatron. Eric Idle as Wreck Gar. Rather sad though that this was Orson Wells last work. He deserved better.
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20 minutes. The attack on Autobot City is great, Prime's death is great. The rest is only fun if you reeeeally like TF.
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All of the people that love this film are way more defensive than the people who don't like it. I suspect because they know it's $hit and still want to like it. Kind of desperate. by superninja Jun 16th, 2007
12:07:43 PM
What?! Are you taking the piss?! For MONTHS now, ordinary film-geeks like myself have had to put up with fucking miserable fan-boys whining about flames on Michael Bay, lips on Megatron's vagina and all other sorts of inconsequential crap - in addition to judging the film before they have seen it, and acting like superior, sophisticated, smug intelligentsia. Wankers jumping on ANYONE who seemed even remotely optimistic about this film. Now the good reviews are coming in, and YOU'RE talking about desperation? All you sour-faced fucking 'haters' are fucking squirming and grasping at straws now that 3 people have reviewed it and no-one has come away less than entertained, and you're talking about desperation?
Face it Superninja, you and your fellow 'haters' have been shown up for the miserable, pedantic and childish stick-in-the-muds you are. You've talked yourselves into corners and are unsure about how to get out without losing face.
Don't watch this film if you like being entertained - stay in and watch an arty black & white, subtitled French film instead if you wish to make yourself feel intelligent and superior.
Don't bandy terms like 'desperate' around in a last ditch attempt to try and remain aloof and superior, you hypocrite.
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Nobody is saying "Give me the Academy Award-Winning TRANSFORMERS, please!" Have you ever seen an action/sci-fi movie that was just well-done? It's the difference between STAR WARS and WING COMMANDER. Get it?
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Have you seen TF's yet? How do you know it's NOT well done? How do you know you WON'T enjoy it?
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Oh come on, I bet there's a little bit of you that loves the end. "Arise Rodimus Prime" and all that. You know you love it.
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You have had to put up with us? Too funny.
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Can we get someone with a BRAIN write a review? For the love of god! This movie sounds like utter shit.
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Optimus. Ha hah. Hot Rod is okay, but Rodimus sucks.
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I've seen the script, I've seen the cast, I've seen the trailers that confirm the things that turned me off AND I've seen Mike Bay's track record-- of which I am 90% not a fan. Unless they greatly altered the screenplay draft I've read and Mike Bay suddenly started to demand more of his actors and writers, then I'm not expecting much, if at all, to be that good, save for ILM's usually awesome FX work. What, you've never prejudged a movie before? Ever?
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You're citing Die Hard as an example of plot?! Man gets trapped in building being robbed by terrorists, ex-wife threatened. Not exactly complex is it?
As far as FF goes - couldn't care less. And it wouldn't matter if Wolverine wore a pink costume covered in flashing lights; when you're THAT hard and can heal yourself, there's not much need for sneaking up on ANYONE. -
.... did not create the Transformers in the cartoon. The Quintessons built the robots that evolved into the Transformers, and a living computer called Vector Sigma gave them life. (For the person who said the Matrix gave them all life)
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Their faith is too strong!
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and it is IDENTICAL to the script. Scene for scene barely any difference whatsoever. So that script is exactly what we're getting and even if someone who read it likes it chalk it up to low expectations, or this mass delision that seems to be going on, because there aint no way it's a good film.
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Pawprint, you're missing the point-- What the heck was Indiana Jones about? Go find the treasure. Die Hard was about surviving steep odds and saving the day. There are no "new" plots, only inventive execution. DIE HARD executed the "one man alone" plot brilliantly.
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I really don't believe it's possible for the film to overcome that, I don't care how good the action is.
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And complicated can certainly equal stupid. It's the smoke and mirrors, "don't look at the man behind the curtain" stuff you should worry about.
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show the holes in his argument to the less fanatical and disingenuous TB readers. How have you been, supes?
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it was based on a videogame and destined to be bad and fail. lol
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Not the old, 'Thanks for making my point', argument (if you can call it an argument)? I'm very disappointed.
Go back and have a look at some of the TF TB's; plenty of people have been savaged by 'haters' and fan-boys for showing ANY enthusiasm for this film.
Answer me this - how would you have reacted if they had quite literally given you a G1 Tf film? Boxy designs, robotic beards, pink female robots, shitty 'morphing' tranformations which don't match the mass & size of the robots - no, wait - don't tell me; you'd have loved it. Of course. It wouldn't have looked at all stupid... -
Dont tell me I need to watch the movie to know whether or not they've fucked up. Transformers are ALL ABOUT the design. The toys look like shit, mainly because the designs look like shit. And YES, this movie, as was the cartoons is just a giant toy / car commercial.Transformers was a 30 weekly 30 minute commercial. DId you figure that out all by yourself? The writers have been interviewed since then and their response? "People say that but we had barely any contact with Hasbro, we were just trying to write interesting stories." Is that really such a surprise? What movie isn't a commercial for something?
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I said script not plot. The plot is simple, its the script that lifts it.
Fair point about Wolverine. You'd have to be pretty hard to walk around in that get up to start with!!
Maybe I'm greedy but I just wanted a bit more. The action looks tremendous, unfortunately its the bits in between that are going to let it down. I'll probably watch it twice though, hypocrite that I am!! -
just how readily fanboys are to write off the quality of the movie due to the fact that it's "just a videogame." Aren't there HALO novels? Yikes!
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I want to see his review!!!! And I don't give a fuck how his name's really spelt!!!
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from personal attacks, and most of us have very carefully and reasonably explained why we think this movie is bad. Can't do anything about the drive bys, but don't act like we've all been doing it. We've also clarified that we were not looking for a literal G1 adaptation, the design changes are the least of this movie's problems. Let it go, man.
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thats wasnt a commercial for anything.............oh wait.
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you dumb cunt, noone wanted a complete replication of the boxy characters, just a similar one. This Transformers design is like a steampunk version of Transformers. Its clear to any fan if you look at it that the designer does not understand Transformers really. Transformers are mechanical creatures from CYbertron. They have endo skeletons that their body is built around but within the body is crazy technology you would not understand. Looking at Bays transformers it just looks like a car went through a trash compactor and someone randomly placed the pieces in the form of a man.
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Which one? They were all little more complex than Die Hard I think you'll find.
I have prejudged MANY films, but have been sensible enough to keep my opinions to myself. Plus I've never assumed an air of superiority over those who don't agree with my opinions. -
And how about yourself? Keep on keepin' it real, buddy.
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"Have you seen TF's yet? How do you know it's NOT well done?" The POSITIVE reviews call the story stupid, pointless and ridiculous.
As for your comments back to me. To give a movie a pass based on genre is unfair. Like all sci-fi action movies have to have bad stories? Like Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Matrix, LOTR, Spiderman 1 & 2...etc. They all had bad stories right? I am not expecting a fucking bill shakespeare but I can require compotent storytelling right? -
opinions to themselves. LOL.
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Not meaningless one-dimensional human characters that sass each other and scream "BRING IT!" at the 30-ft. tall robots. I mean, COME ON, that just sucks all-around. The robots are not the center of the movie. That's okay, I get it that the movie would cost a half a billion dollars if they filled it with them the whole time. However, at least make the humans partially interesting.
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Huh? did I miss something here? Starwars is just a mediocre matinee serial-style movie that is all fluff. The only reason it became the phenomenon is because Lucas had the foresight to seal merchandising deals unlike anything previously seen.
If you want to truly measure the Starwars movies, you have to exclude IV and V, because those Lucas did not have complete control over. He had producers that knew how to make a good movie, and with V, he had a director who knows how to handle actors.
Episodes I, II, III, and VI are the true measure of George Lucas and his world... fart jokes, cutesy teddybears, and lousy acting.
Transformers at the very least could match up favorably to George Lucas -
Remains to be seen... However, if you can 'pass' the original TF cartoon storytelling, then Bay's can only be an improvement.
It all boils down to expectation. If you're going in expecting Oscar-worthy drama and characterisation, then clearly you're an idiot and are BOUND to be disappointed. -
Internet fangirls whining about everything... not.
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Just busy. I can't wait for vacation to roll around. I'll be in Montreal when this mess of a film comes out, so I'll try to keep tabs on everyone's reactions while I'm out of town. If I do see this movie, NANCY DREW is getting $10 from me-- I'm not "paying" to see this movie directly. Hell freakin' no.
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Skywalker's arc is great. It's not anything new, it's just a repackaged myth but it's wonderfully done. SW didn't need toys to sell it, give me a break.
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I don't even think I even have to point out the devastating failure of your argument against the original STAR WARS. Unbelievable. Go home.
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you are just slamming it to make your point. The US comics were good, everyone loves the UK comics. Much deeper mythology than you are suggesting, regardless.
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NOBODY is saying "I want an Oscar-bound TF movie." Sheesh, I'm surrounded by Pawprint's strawmen!
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by the cartoon.
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Yeah, they needed to raise the level of storytelling, plot and characterization, not lower it. I have a feeling I'd get a better story out of two 10 year-old kids playing with their TF toys in the living room than the forthcoming film.
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be a lame love story!
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That's what I always thought of when I dreamed of a TF movie. Boy and his car. Car picks the man. Yay!!!
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This story.... allowing a teenage kid to defeat Megatron, allowing the US army to be the ones to take down the Decepticons? That's not what Transformers are about man. It's just not. Transformers were about how pathetic humans are, it made the enemy that much more of a threat and the HEROES that much more of heroes. Because humans stood ZERO chance against the Decepts. The Decepticons laughed as the military attacked them. The Autobots protected us. In this movie everything i've heard leads to the US MILITARY taking down the Decepticons and Megatron. In the end, Megatron defeats Optimus Prime but then Sam throws the gayass cube at Megatron and Shia saves the day.....GAY>
This movies disgrace of Optimus Prime will NEVER replace the REAL Optimus Prime. .G1 rules, this Michael Bay missed the mark. WHy did he even make the movie at all? He said it himself he was not a fan. He still isn't. -
carjacker?
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Bay needs a new patron, and he thinks Spielberg is the one. THE ISLAND was his first work for Spielberg and it failed miserably. So, Bay took this project because nobody else would hire him. Bruckheimer has Gore Verbinski, Bay is totally useless to him now.
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Those two terms, contrary to popular belief, are not describing someone who simply likes or dislikes a film. At least they aren't supposed to. They describe a blind faith more than anything. A dogmatic lack of reason. Here is where one becomes more believable than the other. Talkbackers like SUperninja, Yackbacker, and myself have been against this film for a while now. Therefore we are branded "haters". Why it doesn't apply is not a single one of us have ever hesitated to back up our point of view with fact after fact about the film, the director, the script, the cast, you name a complaint, we can tell you exactly why we lodged it. Many would call me one of the most vitrioloic hates, but if you could go back to early talkbacks you would find when Bay was first announced for the project I was literally one of the only ones defending him. Arguing that he might be one of the only directors to get the budget that the film deserves, and I thought he may have learned a lesson after the failure of "The Island", I was wrong. Our arguments are well established and well within reason from anybodys point of views, whether you agree or not. The "apologists" on the other hand have yet to make an argument for their position any deeper than "It's got giant robots and that's all it needs." When us "haters" explain point for point why that isn't the case we are greeted with "It's got giant robots and that's all it needs." That, my friends is not an argument, it's an apology. A far too convenient point that is completely with basis that iss tuck to with such fervor that a debate can no longer continue because clearly only one of the people in it has any common sense. Like when you meet someone who is convinced that the planet Earth is only 6000 years old and when you say "What about dinosaurs?" they say "The bones were put here by God to trick us." It's kind of like that. Look at these reviews that are coming in. They say Pretty much everything about the film save for the special effects is absolutely retarded, but they like it and it's good. That's an apology. "Michael bay does what he does well."? Apology. It's just an endless stream of apologies, even months into the argument. No matter how many fair points you make, they respond with the same three basic things, not one of them backed up with evidence to support them, just apologies. I'm assuming it comes from some kind of insecurity. They can't handle the paradox of liking something that isn't any good. Someone should sit them down and tell them VERY SLOWLY that it's ok to like something bad, but if you do just admit it and call it a "guilty pleasure" and then they can laugh with themselves instead of AT themselves.
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So you'd rather base your opinions on feelings, rather than actually seeing the film yourself and being able to comment from a position of strength? Or are you just suggesting you have jedi-like powers of precognition? You are holding up Bay's TF against the G1 cartoons for comparison and suggesting that the carttons were hands down better? Please! I suggest you take off the rose-tinted nostaligia-vision (tm) specs and be realistic. The robots in the original cartton didn't actually transform; they 'morphed', with little or no consideration for mass or structure or size. The human characters were just typical cartoon sidekicks; wise-cracking, getting into trouble and requiring rescue. I mean, jesus, just take a look at Megatron from the cartoon - badly animated, bends where he should be rigid, retard's helmet, 'morphs' into ridiculous gun.... tell me, what the hell were you expecting from live action, exactly?
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bend over like Bay did?
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The cartoon was not so awesome on a lot of levels. I mean the disappearing/reappearig trailer for Optimus, the aiming, etc. There are lots of bad parts. But they got the characterization right, and BASIC story was interesting. Then the comics came around and were really interesting (I was so excited when I found the first issue I could scream...I was 10, gimme a break). At this point though there is a rich mythology behind the toys that makes them interesting. You are acting like this movie COLUDNT have a good story or script because of the source material. And I simply refuse to believe that.
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That's why I visit. Get your shit straight if you're going to make an arguement. The pink lady and beards was generation 2. G2. The movie was all about out with the old and in with the new. That's the primary reason why I hated it as a kid.
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you think is going to be bad is a "position" of strenght. Ridiculous!
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I said that I've read the script, which through the comic adaptation and ACTUAL FILM FOOTAGE has been confirmed to be the real deal, and the script sucks, flat-out. I also said that I don't like Bay's past work. So, add those two together, short of actually seeing the film and knowing for a fact that I don't like it, I have a lot of other worthwhile evidence upon which my opinion is based.
Second, I am not holding it up to G1. I never said that, go find the quote where I made that argument. I'm not saying "emulate the cartoon" in fact I'm saying ELEVATE the cartoon. But you don't read before you react, it seems.
And if you really knew what I've been saying all along, it is this-- if the movie somehow turns out great, I will be thrilled beyond belief. I want this movie to be amazing. I've wanted this movie to be made since I was a little kid. But guess what, just because I want something doesn't mean it's going to happen, particularly with the material I've seen connected to this film. If it's amazing, I will be relieved and I will gladly eat my words. Is that clear enough for you, or do I need to keep on repeating myself? -
Not since I've been visiting the site....
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Just someone who's after a giant, entertaining, summer spectacle. Looks like I may get it too. I'm not going to pretend I'm above that kind of film, that visual spectacle and a straightforward plot is beneath me, just to make myself look superior.
I have never tried to make excuses for this film, but neither have I tried to prejudge it. If it's shit, then so be it. I have no emotional investment in it whatsoever. I just want entertaining. The cartoons couldn't do it - this looks on track to do so.
By the way 'cartton' = cartOON... -
Read the script. Confirmed the script is most likely the filming script after reading interviews with the cast and filmmakers. See the actual footage which reflects the script. Read the comic book that demonstrates they shot the same script. Where is the mental breakdown for you here? Bay does only one thing well, and that is action scenes. Bay with a bad script with medicore characterization and stereotypes is not likely to be a good movie. It may have some good action sequences, but that is not enough.
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Something you've been looking forward to but had that dreaded feeling as it approached? DAREDEVIL? HULK? Anything?
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hanging out on Murphy's board sucking up to the filmmakers. When the WRITER for this fill was polling the trolls for story ideas. The same acolytes that come here insulting people and putting up a poor defense of all the bad choices the filmmakers have made.
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You are precisely the person for which this movie was made. Congratulations on getting what you want.
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It's impossible to say definitively that Bay even does actions scenes well. Rewatch that highway chase in Bad Boys 2, the quick cuts editing rob it of any impressive choreography it might have. Quick cuts edits are always an easy way out, yes even when Paul Greengrass or Christopher Nolan do it. Likewise for any of the scenes in the Island. He makes EXPENSIVE looking actions scenes yes. But there is a world of difference between technique and simply spending the money.
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But you ARE using the cartoon as a basis for your expectations, or as a yardstick by which to judge the cartoon, clearly. Storywise, I fail to see your argument;
In the G1 cartoon, the TF's come to Earth looking for a crazy mcguffin cube of some sort, which both sides want.
In Bay's film, the TF's come to Earth looking for a crazy mcguffin cube of some sort, which both sides want.
In terms of effects, well I don't even have to point out the difference between the poor animation and design of the 80's cartoon, and ILM's incredible designs. Or are you going to go all 'flames on batman's nipples' on me? -
quite clear that is where his only strength lies.
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Just a feeling I've got.
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They crash land here because they are two warring factions that have practically destroyed their planet out of hatred for one another. The Autobots leave to get supplies and the Decepticons attack them disabling their ship as they crash land on Earth. The go into a dormant state only to be revived millions of years later by the ships automated system when it's activated during volcanic activity.
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Of course. 'The Avengers' - but I wasn't looking forward to it, nor had I an emotional investment in the source material. It disappointed me by way of being dull, impenetrable shite, which I had paid to watch.
And obviously the SW PT, which I DID have an emotional investment in. -
iconic looking, I am not alltogether against redesigning them for the film, never have been, never have most of us been against it. These are overdesigned. They are ugly. They look unapproachable. It was done that way on purpose. Further, they are reverse-engineered which is idiotic because they are aliens, not created by humans it doesn't even make sense.
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But I know reconsider.. If this movie at 140 minutes keeps people interested throughout and has the eyepopping visuals as described it sounds like just the ticket to keep me away from Fantastic Whore :Rise of the Silver Slurper.
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how bout accepting something other than a completely negative review as authentic.
seriously, who the fuck are you guys?...
i love how you think EVERYONE gives a fuck enough about you to waste their time making fake reviews.
each and everyoine one of you on this board will see this movie, many of you twice. (myself included)
i havent seen one positive review on this site where the TB hasnt started with PLANT! if the review does ruin the entire movie with spoilage or treat it like a uwe bol film you guys scream foul. ignorant -
"With its debut in 1984, The Transformers began with a three-episode miniseries (later titled More Than Meets the Eye) that introduced audiences to Optimus Prime, Megatron and their armies, as they travelled from the metal world of Cybertron to Earth in search of new sources of energy. "
Is that not what is referred to as 'The Energon Cube'? -
Who cares if you are dissapointed in something you weren't looking forward to and had no emotional investment in. That wasn't what he was asking.
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You clearly have ZERO clue what the Transformers cartoon was about. The Allspark had NOTHING to do with it. There was no mcguffin. It was autobots and decepticons crashed on earth and buried under a mountain for 4 million years. Finding themselves here and searching for energy and a way to get home. The first faction to return to Cybertron would be able to claim it as their own. So they were trapped in battle on this planet. All they could do is destroy the other faction and not let them leave the planet at any cost. Thats the general plot of the 3 part miniseries. There was no MCGUFFIN, cause MCGUFFINS are what are needed for movies like he-man masters of the universe. Humans did not stand a chance against Decepticons. The Autobots were the ONLY ones who could stop them.
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The Decepticons are defeated by a teenage boy. Is that not WATERED DOWN to you?
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creative force which is what the cube is in the movie. They bastardized the Matrix of Leadership and called it the Energon Cube because Bay thinks his audience is too stupid to realize it's not a reference to the Matrix movies.
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"Further, they are reverse-engineered which is idiotic because they are aliens, not created by humans it doesn't even make sense."; Oh well that's it then! My opinion is changed - Bay must die! How idiotic of him!
Now, if he'd just included the fucking pink female robots, and the robots with fucking BEARDS, that would have been perfectly credible.... jesus christ. -
is MORE CARTOONY than the fuckin cartoon.
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Nor am I using G1 as a yardstick. I happen to think this new TF movie's weaknesses are universally understood- bad dialogue, bad characterization, lack of tension or imagination-- these things are apparent on their own and I will judge this movie on its own merits. Knock off this whole "G1" argument. You're making the wrong assumptions. Completely.
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Since you are so obsessed with the cartoon, how about paying attention. "sources of energy" Plural. Energon cubes. Plural. It was there source of nutrition/fuel. Don't you remember Soundwave creating cube, after cube, after cube in the cartoons? The AllSpark is a Macguffin. Enjoy the flim.
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Master grammarian I am not.
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Of discussing anything with me without your hand up his arse working him? He asked me if I've ever been disappointed by a film, I answered him - not you.
I mentioned the only films I can remember that truly disappointed me, and I answered with my justifications.
Or are you just banding together for protection? -
I'm sorry, you're not making any rhetorically sound arguments. Instead, you're twisting around what I and others are saying so you can make your points sound more convincing. It's a cheap tactic. Try and respond to my questions and arguments directly if you want to have a real discussion, otherwise, quit while you can.
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I think they were looking for a new source of energy that they then turn into Energon Cubes. I never got that bit myself.
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The way I see it. Soundwave compressed tons and tons of energy into a small forcefield. The forcefields were then compressed again creating volatile but incredibly rich energy sources. A pretty cool idea I always thought. Even if they looked silly in the toon, the idea is very original and to me, FAR BETTER than the ALLSPARK MACGUFFIN in the movie.
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Not about overall "bummage" feelings. The point behind my question was to illustrate that while you couldn't care less about the TRANSFORMERS mythology, there are others who do-- and my having you see it from that perspective, you'd hopefully better understand where we are coming from. To feel real disappointment, you need to have some degree of hope or expectation attached to something. Apparently, there is little chance you will be disappointed by this TF movie, as you are extremely ambivalent towards it's past. That's your right, I don't hold that against you. But just know that there are others who have a completely different approach to this movie, and at the very least respect that for what it is. We're all entitled to care about some sort of story or project prior to its release.
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not race for the Macguffin
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Which is entirely unjustified. Please continue to argue semantics and nitpick at minor details while avoiding the main point.
This film is based on the Transformers franchise; it was NEVER going to be high art, and neither was the cartoon. To expect anything different was - and is - ridiculous. You are slating a film which you haven't yet seen for qualities it never professed to have. Do you open a tin of beans and fucking whine when you find beans in it? -
The energon cubes were a means to leave Earth to build and fuel a ship thatcould bring them home. The Autobots did want to protect the humans but they couldn't let the Decepticons leave and take over their homeworld so they sabotaged the decepticon mission back to Cybertron. Autobots wanted to protect the humans, but not at the expense of losing their homeworld.
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Jun 16, 2007 3:12:09 PM CDT
Sounds as if it's going exactly what I thought it'd be.
by salvatoregravano
Namely - entertaining nonsense.
Which, I assume is precisely what the cartoon was? -
It doesn't even matter what happened on Cybertron in this movie cause it isn't even about the Transformers, its about "a boy and his car" GAY.
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it sounds more like a fucking football game. A quick and easy plot device for a writer with no imagination.
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You stupid, self-delusional cretin! Am I now supposed to be trembling in fear?! What are you going to do - 'virtual-break' my fingers so I can TB anymore?! You are truly laughable, and wrongly convinced of your own superiority.
I can understand that you care about the quality of this film, but where did this emotional investment come from? Would that be the original G1 cartoons? Which takes me back to my initial points... -
Nope. The cartoon was the foundation for many great stories over the last twenty plus years. It's last for so long due to this. Not solely because they are cool toys that transform. Over 300 plus comic books. They wouldn't keep printing and producing them if they weren't selling.
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Should have been REFERRED TO in the first movie but left audiences wondering what it was. In the second movie we could have got to see what the matrix really is. An ancient device containing the wisdom of past autobot leaders, hidden within Optimus Primes chest cavity. But no, they werea afraid people would getit mixed up with the Matrix movie. Fuck Transformers had the name FIRST. And the word can't be trademarked, sheesh.
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Action movies don't need to be dumb. Simple plots don't need to be simple-minded. Special FX don't need to be a permission slip for bad acting.
I said earlier I had a feeling this movie was not going to be good-- based on a lot of evidence. I'm not saying "This movie is absolutely shit!" because yes, I haven't seen it. But seeing the warning signs of a bad movie is not a rare skill. We've all seen stuff before a movie comes out that sets off the red-alert that the film is going to stink. My alarm is going off big-time. You're looking for a different movie, it seems. You want noise and explosions. Good for you. I want that stuff PLUS an interesting story and good characters. Not an Ivory-Merchant film-- a solid, witty, fun action movie is all. I've listed them above and in other TBs, so you know what I'm talking about (hopefully). But your inability to make even the slightest concession makes me wonder what you're trying to accomplish in this TB. -
Dont even bother with the guy he has no idea what the cartoon was even about.
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I do apologize. I guess it seemed like I was on any level comparing Nolan and Greengrass, two directors capable of incredible work, to Michael Bay, that was not my intention. ALthough I see where you are coming from in you arguments I have to disagree. If Nolans intention was to portray Batman as such a quick fighter, why was the quick cut editing present in the opening prison fight between Wayne and those Mongolian inmates? Which takes place well before Bruce Wayne has any sort of pseudo supernatural fighting abiality. What good is a fight sequence if you can't see it? What makes it impressive is that two warriors are constantly one upping each other in combat and you get to watch. If you don't actually get to see it they should just cut the scene as the two guys begin to fight and then pick up right after with Jason Bourne victorious. There is no question the hand to hand fight in the original Bourne is in every way superior to that of the second, which might have the most gratuitous use of quick cutting in film history. I don't mind it as a a very seldom used tactic to accentuate certain things, but basing a fight around it is ridiculous and makes me skeptical as to whether or not the director can shoot the thing head on.
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Nobody is saying they are smarter than you, only that your arguments hold no water. You dodge questions and you make up opposing arguments. Seriously, I'd feel inferior too if that was how I approached rhetorical discourse.
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Just because I enjoyed the cartoon does not mean I wanted that replicated in a live-action film. They're completely different mediums. But in order for Pawprint to make any argument, he has to put words in our mouths.
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"This film is based on the Transformers franchise; it was NEVER going to be high art, and neither was the cartoon. To expect anything different was - and is - ridiculous." if that isn't apologist rhetoric I have no idea what is. You just completely let Bay off the hook for anything that might be wrong with the film and that my friend is horseshit. You basically just called the film crap and that it was destined to be so.a If you can't defend the film based on its own merits then don't bother trying.
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poor arguementation. Just admit you don't care anything about the source material. Some of us do. No one was ever asking for high art, but there are plenty of films (examples have been given above) that can be both good films and action movies.
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I love film. Film is about storytelling.
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And why should I make ANY concessions? This is one of my points. People like you and Superninja seem to think that we should be making concessions to your opinions, which are based on nothing more than a nostalgic love of G1 cartoons/comics.
The plot of Bay's TF's film seems to be no less 'simple-minded', than any of the original cartoons, or many other action films.
Take ESB; my favourite SW film; what little plot there is, is lost in breathless spectacle, and THAT revelation - which hardly effects the story of the film out of the context of the trilogy. ESB's plot is basically; Rebels are evicted from Hoth, Luke goes to get trained, Solo & Leia run, Solo & Leia get captured, Leia & Luke escape. It is basically a 'chase' film.
So, the TF film may have a relatively light plot, but the spectacle will more than compensate for that apparently. No bad thing. -
not a good TF adaptation, I would readily admit that. There are a lot of different issues going on here. I can't figure out really why these properties seem so hard to develop other than the people making them really have no respect for them because they think they're too sophisticated for it. Which just means they don't understand the basics of storytelling.
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being somewhat hysterical. What are you getting so worked up over if you have no emotional investment in this?
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"You basically just called the film crap " - Please show me where I called the film crap.
I inferred that to expect a complex and involved plot from something based on the G1 cartoons was stupid. As has already been mentioned - a light plot does not a crap film make. -
Its exactly what Bay has done. He's had the conclusion that it's just a cartoon so he should make as many changes as possible to separate it from the source material. He probably saw no merit in the cartoon but you and I know there was. What bothers me most is that it will still be a good movie i mean come on, its giant robots transforming! How could it fail? However with all of Bays changes. Critics, people alike will congratulate Bay for turning a "silly" concept into a good idea. When little will the pea brains know that Transformers already was a very cool story with a rich mythology behind it. So Bay will get a pat on the back for basically pulling through with a sure fire win. People will be surprised when Transformers succeeds.... but not me. Its fucking Transformers man! The movie would have been 10 times better though with more respect to the original and less watering down. I'm thinking in the reboot.
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Luke's journey towards his destiny, learning the difference between ambition and wisdom-- Han and Leia's developing romance-- Darth Vader's revelation to Luke AND his plan to unseat The Emperor... that is more plot than ten Mike Bay movies combined.
AGAIN, for the 100th time, my love of the cartoons is not the standard by which I'm measuring this movie. If anything, it's fuel for my hope that the movie is in fact good. Cartoons and live action films are completely different beasts. Simple plots do not need to be simple-minded. My opinions are based on decades of watching films and seeing how some are done brilliantly and others are done poorly. My opinion is not based on my recollections of a TV show from the 80s.
And you still cannot concede that you're opposing arguments of your own creation. -
You PERCEIVE my posts to be hysterical. I am not worked up in the slightest - just incredulous at the level of arrogance being shown by other on here.
So anyway, you were going to explain why reverse-engineering is laughable, but pink female robots and robot beards aren't? Weren't you? -
that are made these days. POTC3 makes ESB look like Shakespeare.
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but compairing The Empire Strikes Back to TINO is not the strongest arguement. I loathe Star Wars but enjoyed the hell out of that film. It was the characters, not the spectacle. For me that is. Bay and Co. had all the material at their fingertips to cultivate a strong script. Look at all the iterations via several mediums over the years and take the best from those. This film has none of that. No charactersation whatsoever. Stupid and loud. Exactly as the reviews above describe it.
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a better word. Think about this for a second. Live action pink robots and robots with beards might be stupid, but they're not contradictory. Reverse-engineered robots that have car engines in them when they are supposed to be aliens are. Pink is a color. A beard is styling. Robots can have those things whether or not you think they're stupid. Please explain why aliens with advanced technology should be reverse-engineered vehicles created by human engineers? It defies its own logic.
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Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha! Michael Bay is pwning you and raping your childhood at the same time! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!
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Stripped down is basically a chase film. Everything else is just intrigue and nuance. Solo and Leia's romance is not essential to the film on its own - if they had just remained 'good friends', Solo could still have been captured - the impact of his freezing may have been lessened slightly - but the plot would remain. Vader's revelation has no effect on the outcome of the film either, nor does his one line about overthrowing the Emperor - Luke would have still dropped down the vent to escape him rather than die.
But we're not here to talk ESB, are we? -
than G1. This movie is a cartoon parody of a cartoon as far as i'm concerned. The plot is s cheezy and predictable compared to the cartoon.
Tell me when watching the original TF:Movie. Could you have expected Unicron Transforming? Megatron becoming a new character? Optimus Prime dying? HotRod becoming a new robot that will lead the Autobots and Cybertron to freedom? The PLOT is there. Ironically BECAUSE of the need to bring in a new line of toys the story actually turned out very good! Check out what the angry vido game nerd has to say of it. This reviewers has NEVER given a positive review of anything but this freaking movie: http://tinyurl.com/36xqb4 -
ESB may have been basically a "chase film" (which I don't necessarily agree with, but I don't want to get into that here...) but it was a chase film with characters that we cared about. And the director cared about. And the audience cared about. Not gigantic scrap heaps that look like the New Orleans the day after Katrina hit who are more worried about showing off their GM logos or making "hip" jokes to win an MTV movie award.
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bomb.
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If you're an advanced alien robot in disguise, and you wish to REMAIN in disguise, I'd recommend looking as completely like whatever it is you're disguising youself as possible. But that's just me.
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Stripping down ESB to a chase film AND taking away the Han-Leia romance, Vader's revelation, etc. makes it a completely disinteresting and meaningless movie. And you're saying so in your own post! Yes, now you see-- when you diminish characterization and plot to its most basic form, you get a meaningless movie! Now, I refer you to Mike Bay's latest film, TRANSFORMERS.
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this. Glaringly bad.
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"Mmm, this childhood is good. Give me some of that childhood, girl. Who's childhood is this? Unnggg!"
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A disguise does not change your internal organs. Just admit that it makes absolutely no sense and is in fact dumb.
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Great film. However, could you please use paragraphs? I enjoy reading your posts, but the run on style is somewhat offputting. First type Then type P Then type > Not picking, just offering options. Carry on.
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movie's budget. VW wouldn't pony up $$ for this "shakedown" project-- so Bumblebee became a Camaro. That's art at its highest. Oh no, I said "art" out loud, now Pawprint is going to say I demanded an art-film. Oh boy...
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...And the Matrix was introduced veeeery eraly in the comics, and the movie (the one with Unicron in it) centers around getting/destroying it.
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then they should be disguising themselves as humans. Or maybe they're stupid?
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to be more careful. Dang you Mike Bay!
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Good points; however, what you're forgetting is:
The only people who have any prior emotional investment in TF's are G1 nerds - there aren't enough of them to justify a live action TOTALLY G1-faithful film, in terms of cash. Let's be honest - any filmmaker alive wants to see a return on their efforts - they don't do it for free. So this film HAD to be re-imagined to be aimed at as large an audience as possible. That's not an apology on behalf of Bay, but just acceptance of reality.
That said, my wife wouldn't know an Autobot from C3-PO, but when she saw the trailer where BumbleBee is being captured, she said "Aaaaw, poor thing! I bet that'll have me in tears in the cinema..", so there we have an emotional investment with no prior subject knowledge or interest.
I make no excuses for my wife, by the way! -
because you can't type "their" correctly. Phew, that makes me feel good.
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Regarding target audience and legacies comparing to Spiderman legacy and all of that. Kids today do not need to have ever heard of Transformers before. They are seeing these trailers and the fat kids are chest-bumping in the aisles over the shock of how "cool" it looks. Gigantic robots tearing shit up.
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because I know that if I did not it would mean I want TF to be like Shakespeare.
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Still making up arguments. Seriously, Pawprint, are you not seeing yourself at work?
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of some logic circuits. Hee hee.
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Man, if they're doing that over this movie, imagine what they'd be doing to each other if the movie was good? (shakes head at myself in disgust).
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I don't 'have to admit' anything. Imagine you're a robot in disguise as a car, you're in a car park, there are a load of people around - if someone pops the bonnet and sees a robot face staring back at them where an engine should be, what are you going to do - expose yourself by killing the nosey human? Or avoid the situation by being a more or less EXACT replica.
Besides, your argument becomes a bit ludicrous if you are willing to write off robot beards and pink lady robots... pink might be a colour, but are you telling me that they needs lady robots to reproduce? Do these robots screw and squirt out kids? -
Almost to a man, you haven't fucking seen it, so stfu! Fine criticise stuff you've seen, designs, etc, but until you've seen the the movie stop saying it's a turd, because you just do not fucking know. It might be, and if it is, moan and bitch about it, but don't say it is shit when all you have seen a few trailers and some pictures.
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Sizzlin' circuits indeed!
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You know, the thing upon which the ENTIRE film is based? Yeah, perhaps I'm way out of line for thinking this movie will suck when the script is terrible. Sorry to have inconvenienced you today!
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thanks for reminding us, Gramps.
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I never said ESB would be boring stripped down - I said the impact would be lessened slightly.
MOST films would be boring if you stripped them down to the bare bones of plot.
Bay's TF looks like it will deliver what it promised, a light plot and plenty of spectacle. Which already has an advantage over G1 TF's, because that just had the light plot... -
now it all makes sense. we arent debating a good vs. bad movie- we are debating whether TF will be an epic, life altering, fanboy masterpiece to eclipse all else.
thats a high bar to get to yack. its a giant fucking robot movie. STFU and understand that this is going to be big stupid fun. its not your new jerk off material, that doesnt mean its going to be the worst movie on the planet as you seem to think it is.
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The only movies that work that don't have humans as the main characters are animated or movies like Babe and Charlotte's Web and those have substantial human characters in them. It's easier for the average person to relate to the human side than a robots. Bwahahahahahahahaha! Bay is taking your childhood behind the bushes with a mean glare in his eye! My childhood is safe, suckas!
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That's the only reason to make one. Make a giant robot movie all day long, don't call it TF.
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to Turbo Teen, though.
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Tolkien's LOTR; one of the most incredible stories ever written; voted best book of the 20th Century (in the UK) - a terribly written book. Dull, overly verbose, leaden prose. Peter Jackson's LOTR, a riveting masterpeice. Could you have known this from the script? I fucking doubt it. Judging ANY film you haven't seen by the script alone is like judging a song you've never heard by the sheet music.
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But you're content to make that comparison constantly. Pawprint, your arguments are not holding up, I'm sorry. You like a movie with a light plot, and you try to use ESB as an example? Just tell me you work for Paramount, at least I could see your efforts being justified here. But no, you're not a company man, are you? You're just an intellectual dodge-artist.
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Yes, you can tell how good a movie will be by its script more or less. Give me an example of visuals overcoming a poor script to make a good movie, please.
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Why don't you give yourself a break from being an arrogant bitch for a while, eh? You're the one who is snickering at 'reverse-engineering', but is quite happy with female robots - pink or otherwise. I think I have made a fair justification for the 'reverse-engineering', would you care to broach the subject of female robots?
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Jun 16, 2007 4:12:15 PM CDT
TouchMyMonkey, I wasn't the one to make the SW comparison
by yack backer
It was Pawprint that started that discussion with the ESB above. So, before you have your next helping of pop-rocks, try and read before you jump down my throat.
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and things get edited.
Example of visuals overcoming a shit script? Pick anyone of the original Star Wars Trilogy. Return of the King. Independence Day (there! I said it, it was a good blockbuster). Apocalypse Now was saved in the editing room. -
to that too.
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Music can't be good if the songwriters suck, right? Same concept. The script sucks, so the movie will suck; The songwriters suck, so Nickelback sucks. Makes sense, yes yes?
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'Plot' is what is essential to drive the story of the film on - all those things I have mentioned about ESB have no effect on plot. The Rebels are running from the Empire - shit bust.
Be as dismissive as you like, but now you're hiding behind a weak argument that 'cartoons are not the same as live action' - I think we realise this, but what's your point? -
It doesn't, because movies are about a lot more than just the script. The first two Christopher Reeves Superman movies had appalling scripts too.
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if at all from the draft that got leaked. The comic adaptation is the same as the script and ALL of the footage supports the fact that the script is intact. And did you just make a peripheral comparison between Francis Ford Coppola and Mike Bay? What Coppola did in editing APOCALYPSE NOW and GODFATHER II for that matter, far surpasses anything Mike Bay could ever accomplish, no matter how much coke he snorts.
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did anyone see it during "Rescue Me"? Because it looks REALLY good! That's the movie I'm excited about right now. I guess I'll see Transformers, but not on opening weekend...(and I doubt I'll pay for it either.)
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The Matrix script - "Then they fight".
The Matrix film.
Is that OK?
Or as already mentioned above; Star Wars. -
the Vehicle mode is only a disguise. They should NOT have any owner. Bumblebee should never have been on a car lot.The disguise is just to get them from A to B without being discovered. If you see a Transformer on the street they shouldn't look exactly like a normal car and CERTAINLY the insides should be different. They DO NOT run on gasoline and DO NOT have internal combustion engines. They un on energon. Any sound these cars make should be simulated.
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also made Jack.
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Seriously, nobody is asking for a "TOTALLY G1-faithful" adaptation. You're arguing against points that aren't being made. When I say that cartoons do not equal live-action films, I am responding to the misguided assumption that you make above. Since you fail to use reason and logic here, it's becoming clear that we are never going to have a worthwhile discussion. Too bad, you don't seem like a stupid person, but you're definitely not being genuine here.
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I would actually like to see that. Vader teaching Starscream and Megatron the ways of the force in exchange for Transformer technology, Darth Vader using the force to control his tie ighter in battle against Megaton or the autobots. Yoda teaching Optimus Prime the ways of the force. HotRod or Bumblebee adapting a new alt-mode and transforming into XWing Fighters. UNICRON vs. the Death Star. Hell using the Matrix of leadership to bring the Deathstar to life and turn it into a transformer. The Tf/SW crossover toy7s are ASS but the concept could be pretty fuckin cool.
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You're bringing some bush-league material to the table. Coppola >>>>> Bay. He could make 20 JACKS and that would still be the case.
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every Star Wars movie
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Listen to yourselves! Jesus, some apologists say the darndest things.
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What ARE you asking for? I am being totally genuine. Your whole argument must based on your love of G1, otherwise you would have no emotional investment in this film, correct? It then follows that you would be holding this film up against G1 as a benchmark of quality. Are you saying that Bay should have cherry-picked the better elements of G1 and left out the crap?
If that's the case, then IMO, that's what he's done. -
SUCKERS!!!! Oh, and BTW, who the fuck designed the toys to go along with this movie. I was walking around Walmart and saw the new toys. They don't even Transform! They just stay locked in their pose. WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT???!!!!!! I feel sorry for today's youth.
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I know, and I'm just fooling around... but I'm saying, you can get good movies out of fucked up scripts, and as an action movie director Bay is good at what he does. He probably doesn't have a great movie in him, but this looks like it could be good for what it is (a movie about gigantic transforming robots, ffs). I notice that no one has countered my fundamental point, that there have been good movies made from shit scripts, where the visuals have made up for it. Some directors seem to always get given a free pass, while others are ripped apart no matter what they do, and Bay HAS made good action movies.
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miserably cause G1 as a concept is far more interesting.
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Not every Star Wars movie, cause only two of them are good.
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The good stuff was added on the set, driving Lucas mad.
"I know," was not in that script, as the best known example. -
I said 'Star Wars'; I'll be cold in my grave before I refer to it as Ep IV or 'A New Hope'.
I won't get into the details, but Lucas' stro treatments of SW, ESB and ROTJ were the worst kind of drug-addled-like mystic tripe before they were 'rescued'; if you haven't already, download the Ebook, 'The Secret Story of Star Wars'. -
is that you keep bringing up the fucking shit cartoon when it is not the fucking point. It laid groundwork. Simple groundwork that was built upon over the years. You have the most basic lowest common denominator interest in this project. Others here have other ideas and interests. The filmmakers made this film with you in mind. Pink girl robots, beards, young, old, big, small. Style and variables. Representative of who that being is. Just like how you and I dress and look. You have clearly never seen or read anything Transformers related since you were but a young lad. Even then you took little interest since it did not resonate with you. So what. Others see more. You choose not to. The cartoon arguement you keep bringing forth holds no ground whatsoever. Groundwork. Groundwork which Bay and Co. ignored for their own bloated, moneymaking so called vision. And it will make shitloads of money and that will be their measure of success. Money is very relevant, but the art and craft come first. Or at least it should.
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Completely right I'm afraid. I will pay to see this, fool that I am.
The toys don't even transform!?! Thats the daftest thing I've heard in ages. Mindyou that means parents will have to buy 2 toys instead of 1. -
Interesting? If bearded robots and pink female robots are interesting and believable to you, then crack on.
What am I saying?! ROBOTS! FUCKING TRANSFORMING ROBOTS! BELIEVABLE?! I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this! -
Here's exactly what I wrote in Dome22's review TB answering your question:
My checklist going into this movie:
by YackBacker Jun 14th, 2007
07:02:27 PM
1) Is there a good story? Is the story logical? Are characters necessary or are they superfluous to the progression of the story? Since the movie popped up in here, let's talk about BATMAN BEGINS. For the majority of that movie, I think the story was EXCELLENT. You had a wide array of characters-- from Bruce's world, from lands far from Gotham, from the criminal underworld, etc. They contributed to a very epic story. And the cool part about that movie (some of you may disagree with me) is that Bruce Wayne was more interesting than Batman. And the movie was about ideas too- justice, revenge, self-sacrifice. Those themes take work to develop- they take time and artistry to pull off successfully. There are little to zero ideas in the TF movie as far as I can tell, save for BIG FUCKING ROBOTS. Ya know, SNAKES ON A PLANE had a similar depth of thought and it fucking sucked.
2) Acting. Actors can elevate lackluster or middling material. I don't really have a strong opinion of the actors in TF either way, I think there does reach a critical point where no matter how good the actor, the material drags down the show regardless. If the script I read stays intact, well, not even the great Martin Landau could raise this sinking ship (that's a joke you humorless bastards).
3) For action movies at least, where's the action? I saw POTC3 recently and it had extensive action sequences. Unfortunately (for me at least) the camera work was too busy and the action was borderline absurd (Jack and Davey fighting on the yard arm of the main-mast while the ship was spinning down a whirlpool was fucking retarded, sorry). Good action builds tension, it doesn't throw it out the window by absurdyly defying the laws of physics.
4) Characterization. The appeal of the old cartoon was that (while cheesy) the characters were memorable, and some (Prime, Megs, Starscream, Bumblebee) were very distinct. Why else did the producers hire Peter Cullen to be Prime? To evoke the memory of that distinct characterization. But that is a half-measure, I fear. As the script reads now, the other characters are bland or almost non-existent. I know scripts change, but I can almost guarantee you that not too much will change from the draft that was released because they had to budget out all that CG work in advance. And preproduction, etc. had to be set well in advance of the Spring 2006 shoot as well. They may tweak lines for the robots, but they're not going to add characterization that is sorely lacking to the existing script. And AllSeeingEye, I get that scripts change, but who would demand those changes? The Director Mike Bay, who has a pathological dislike of good scripting? Steven Spielberg should be the savior of the production, but he's not going to make more work for himself on this project. It's a Dreamworks show, but Para owns Dreamworks now, and Spielberg's exposure is so freakin limited, he is already counting the box office receipts from Week 1 and 2 as an opportunity enough to make the money and get the fuck out of Dodge. -
I'll pay to see it too. We all will.
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Art and craft come first? Bollocks. Sad but true. Film-making is an industry; nowaday's a major film is only greenlit if it stands a chance of making money.
The signs so far show that Bay's film will make shitloads of money, because he has aimed it at the correct audience. -
not all of us. I'll talk about it for as long as I choose, but Murphy et. al. will not get a penny from me. I do look forward to your review though.
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There either locked in their vehicle postion, or upright in there robot position. Talk about a rip off! The whole point of what made Transformers cool was that you could transform the toys into both. Jesus! I really hope the suits that came up with that idea burn in hell.
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Not you, Pawprint.
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and the only part I will play in it is discussing it. I will not feed the abomination that has become Hollywood. Granted, some fine American/Hollywood films still get made, but they are few and far between it seems.
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Point 1; I can't comment on whether the story is good, but from what I am hearing, it is at least logical in the context of Transformers.
Point 2; Again, can't answer, but again, from what I am hearing, the acting is on par with any other summer blockbuster, and doesn't detract from the film.
Point 3; Despite early rumours, action doesn't seem to be this film's weak point by any means. If you require action - this is your film.
Point 4; The clip of BumbleBee being captured managed to evoke emotion in my wife - so it looks on track there too. However, I am hearing that the film only focuses on a few of the robots in the main, which makes sense in the confines of a film. Plus, there will undoubtedly be a sequel, giving opportunity to spotlight other robots. -
Then what's the fucking point? If ever the TINO monkier was appropriate this would be the case.
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Was only mentioned in terms of a great film disguising a basic plot. It was NOT being directly compared to Bay's TF's. Call me a Bay apologist if it makes you feel good, but I wouldn't compare ESB to ANY Bay film. Not the same sport - not even the same stadium.
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Who gives a shit if your wife likes it? Or is interested in it? My girlfreind loves Bad Boy 2. Does that mean it's a good movie? In fact, I'll go as far as to say that it's a bad thing your wife likes it. Wasn't Transformers geared towards boys, and not girls? I know this kinda a sexist, but I don't think most women have good taste when it comes to these kind of movies. I said most. Not all. I apologize if I've offended any girls on this site. The two of you who are out there.
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Point 1: "logical in the context of Transformers." I'm talking about action-genre movies here in general, not some handicapped movie named TRANSFORMERS. Why the sliding scale towards dumbness because of this movie's origins in a cartoon? I'm judging it as an action movie (hence my CONSTANT statement that cartoons do not equal live-action motion pictures, get it?).
Point 2: Action movies can have good acting. Why lower your standards again? I don't get it.
Point 3: Action without tension is boring. POTC3 had bad action even though it had competently rendered SFX.
Point 4: COME ON! Bumblebee made your wife teary-eyed and therefore we should expect solid characterization? Talk about jumping to conclusions! I read the whole script which was devoid of solid characterization. I will say, without any doubt, that my opinion is based on a much more significant amount of evidence in this regard. And saving your characterization for a sequel? You ARE an apologist! -
Bad Boys 2 several times. Kill me.
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But anyway, does anyone really think TINO is going to elevate itself to that level of filmmaking? Regardless of your opinion of the Wachowskis, Bay comes nowhere close to them. Nowhere. It was the characters in The Matrix that I cared about, not the spectacle. I was invested in the characters so the action and peril was effective.
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I want a good, smart action-movie.
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Ha ha ha ha . . .I assume Bay won't have anything to do with the sequel then.Was discussing Bay films at work the other day and I came to realise that I haven't managed to sit through anyone of his films since The Rock. I sat through The Rock because I was on a coach journey and couldn't escape. Dr Dolittle got me the same way - damn you coach companies and your choice of films
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She's a cartoon only kinda fan. I'm a comic book only kinda fan. We both hate what has come to fruition for different and yet the same reasons regarding Bay's TINO.
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Well, again you seem to be putting words in my mouth..
'Logical in the context of Transformers' - ie; G1 TF's came to earth looking for some mcguffin, so do these ones. Who said the plot was 'dumb'?
Point 2: Where did I say that action movies COULDN'T have good acting? How was I lowering my standards? If you take the level of acting you are used to in an average summer blockbuster, apparently TF's is at LEAST on a par with it; I am establishing a 'quality line' if you will. Most summer blockbusters have perfectly fine acting.
Point 3: Talk about jumping to conculsions! how do you KNOW there is no tension in the action? Does it always have to be tension as well?
Point 4: I am not telling you to expect ANYTHING; my point demonstrates that someone without any TF knowledge gleaned some emotional investment in character just from the trailer! -
Go watch Casino Royale again. Bay can't deliver what you desire. I really wish I could debate in the fashion that you, superninja and IndustryKiller! do. Sorry to seem like I'm on your collecitive tips, but I'm just not the wordsmith I wish I was. Matters not. I seem to be more well spoken then some of the children on this site. Be well AICN stalwart.
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'Wives' are human beings you know - they like 'films' too! this may shock you, but TF's isn't a 'boys only' film you know. In fact, my friend's wife is also stoked for this film too.
I know all this may come as a shock for you, but if you actually go and MEET women, you'll see they have likes and dislikes, just like us! -
if you didn't care for Casino Royale
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but I hope there's a scene as stupid as the opening credits of the cartoon where that robot would shink to the size of a gun and suddenly fit in the other robot's hand.
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and arch self-importance as debating tactics - the only person she ends up outwitting is herself.
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He's not a studio boob, or a hatchet-man. He's more or less the type of person that continually argues even when it's clear that his position is untenable and hollow. You know what, that kind of makes me feel superior to the guy. :P
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He's just not the kind of film fan that some of us are. Just like my dad. And my dad drives me so crazy I haven't talked to him about films in over a year now. He sees my huge library, the weekly shipments, and futily asks, What's new that's good? My response is a simple nothing you would like, our tastes are too different now. The man loves Titantic. There it is.
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CASINO ROYALE is the perfect example of smart action. Bay couldn't make that movie in any lifetime. And for the record, you got your rhetoric down, without a doubt. I just talk a lot more, that's all :)
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I cannot wait! YackBacker knows this!
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Ok..i'm ending the Arcee arguement forever: Arcee was not a female robot. Arcee was a male robot with extremely feminine mannerisms, color, voice, chest bumps and strange confusing feelings for Rodimus Prime. Robots do not reproduce sexually.
There. No more Arcee talk. Got it? -
You are a complete fucking idiot with no credibility.
Am I a plant over in the Batman Has New Duds TB, where I talk about being unsure of his new suit?
Was I a plant in the Indy 4 Talkbacks? or the Bat-logo Talkbacks?
If this film sucks arse, then it's fine with me; nowhere have I apologised in any way for Bay - never seen Pearl Harbour, The Island, or Armageddon - and BB2 bored me to tears. I'm just sick of people tearing films apart without seeing them and acting as if their word is law.
Son, you're just fodder for the REAL apologists who scream "Any time someone says something positive, someone screams 'Plant'". -
Studio plant or not.
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Relevant to the film studio? Yes. Relevant to me as a film fan? No. I could care less about how much it cost to make and market or how much it makes in the end. I only care if it's good and all signs, and I mean all signs, point to no on this. Even the action sequences sound and look a mess. I thought Bay was the supposed master of the action film. Not in my book, but isn't that what the average brain trust thinks?
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I love the BOURNE movies- great popcorn fun. Smart action! Tension-filled action! Seriously, those movies are just well-made all-around.
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Simply stating that my position is 'untenable and hollow', does not make it so. I dodge nothing. I have answered every question you have asked me and justified my answers; you respond by trying to put words into my mouth, when I refute your arguments, you try and change the subject. Here is my position; I believe you are a self-important individual too used to having your opinion reinforced by others on this site. You are a nostalgic G1 TF's lover and were smugly convinced that this film would fail. Now it is becoming apparent that this film looks as though it will be well-recieived you're choking on your own impotent rage. Just my opinion.
How is that untenable? -
But he understands women, and has sex with them on a regular basis - unlike lost.rules.
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You've lost, buddy. It's okay, you talk a lot and you copy arguments, etc. In the 6th grade you may have passed for "intelligent" but in the grown-up world, you're just obviously full of it. My position is well-received by others because there must be some sense to it. Who here has said "Yes, Pawprint is correct!"? I'll leave you with that thought to ponder. Ciao.
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Yes, I have a girlfriend. Christ, you're immature. Gee, what does your wife think of FF4 and Spidey 3? No really. I wanna hear her opinion. I feel sorry for you wife.
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Why don't you just get the fuck outta here, and go watch your favorite Lindsay Lohan movie!
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that this film looks as though it will be well received?" I don't think that's so apparant. In fact, I seem to see much more question and negativity towards this movie. Now, if you more heavily weight the three marquee reviews that have been posted on this website which, for all the hours of amusement it has brought me, is not necessarily know for it's *ahem* integrity, then maybe you have something. I think it's time to get a headcount. Lets do it autobots vs decepticons style. Who's going to see this and who isn't. Let's be honest here too, for what do we have to gain by lying? I'll go first. I said it before and will say it again. Call me a Decepticon, I'll be downloading this movie in November. Not going. Autobots: 0 / Decepticons: 1
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that's NOT how you do them.
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You want mass shifiting and you thought The Bourne Supremacy was not well made? Seriously or are you joking?
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Transformers will be an event movie and most people who watch it will like it. The only downfall will be reading the opinions of talkbackers who don't realize how absurd they are for thinking that a movie about alien robots that turn into earth vehicles would be anything but blow 'em up fun. These psuedo-intellectuals fool themselves into thinking that a cartoon which was made for 8 year olds was high art. Stupid.
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I see, "I've lost" because YOU say so? I didn't realise we were having a competition?
Saying '"You've lost" and then leaving like a spoilt child makes you a 'winner' does it? If I'd have known THAT, I would have done the same thing hours ago and 'beaten' you. And you talk about being grown up? I don't care who says I am 'correct' or not - unlike you, I don't crave the agreement and adoration of others. Although I think it's a weak phrase, you really ARE proving my point. You're far too used to people bowing down to your pearls of wisdom and blinkered viewpoint.
I'll watch Transformers with the expectation of being entertained, probably enjoy it too - if I don't, I'll tell you. You - you'll probably stew in your own impotence and frustration.
Who's the loser when all's said and done? -
To paraphrase this year's best movie: "Talkbacker don't big his screename, the screename picks the talkbacker." At least that seems to be the deal in your case. ;)
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See the movie, don't go see it...praise it, bash it, ignore it - WHO CARES?
Do you really think you are going to sway anyone else's opinion with your "expert" views on how a given film should be made?
Are your egos so bloated that you really think you will actually affect the box office? In the end, does it really matter?
Transformers was a KID'S SHOW, and anyone who thinks that it was this big, sophisticated epic series needs to go back and rewatch a few episodes and get a healthy dose of reality. Even if Bay's flick *does* have a paper-thin plot, at least it's being faithful to the original series (which I love, by the way). Be thankful that you actually got a live-action Transformers film in your lifetimes! All you cretins ever do is bitch, bitch, bitch. Most of you sound like a bunch of spoiled little brats who apparently have way too much time on your hands, because you are CONSTANTLY bitching on here. Do us all a favor: SHUT THE FUCK UP. And no, I'm obviously not talking about everyone on here. Where on earth are the sensible people, like ChickenGeorge? -
Just like Spidey 3 was? Or POTC3 was? Yes, I'll always remember the day those movies came out. It only becomes an event movie if....hold on a second....IT'S A GREAT MOVIE!!!!!!!!!! Retard.
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Look, I'm not saying to give the story for this movie a pass, but there are plenty of fast-paced, "Plot-is-simple-so-as-to-drive-the-story" action-type movies where simple IS better.
I see this movie as an introduction. Ironically, the 1st installment of POTC is hailed as the best because it is always moving forward with comedy thrown in. Funny how a movie based on a Disney Ride where there is a good guy/bad guy race to the "treasure" gets a pass but all you haters who have yet to see this film have crucified it. The parallels between the two movies are so obvious its laughable.
But go ahead and TINO away. I will laugh and laugh the moment Blackout transforms and starts annihilating the landscape and you have no comeback. -
If we could somehow just channel all this hate for transformers and bay and psychicly blast it at our heads of state. Perhaps it might stop their hearts like that famous psychic chick who used to stop frog's heart's could.
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"I get a Hemroid, and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There is no God."
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I take it you don't value your girlfriend's opinion then?
Let me break this down for you; I meantioned my wife's opinion because she is a 'person'; this film is aimed at 'people', yeah? Some 'people' think that this film will have no characterisation, and therefore no emotional investment; my wife gleaned some emotional investment just from the trailer, which I used to prove a point.
Do I have to break this down anymore for you, you intellectual lightweight? -
seriously, you must be so mad at yourself that this is apparently going to be a kickass time. so fuck off, no one gives a damn what little issues you are going to fish up. its too bad you made yourself hate this long ago and its probably too late to publicly change your mind, so just die or something
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It sounds like you need the emotional support. I gave you an opportunity to have an honest discussion, but you exhibited pathological evasiveness. I'm not fuming over this movie, I'm having a discussion with people on a messageboard. I'm not the type to lower my standards to avoid disappointment, so we are approaching this movie from two very different perspectives. I'm not asking for high-art, I'm not asking for a cartoon-faithful movie. All I want is a GOOD movie. I gave you my checklist and you responded with excuses on each point. We're debating opinions here. What frustrated me in this whole exchange was your constant effort to distort what I was saying to fit your arguments. That is a cheap way to have a discussion/debate. And yes, I am done debating you because you're moving the goal posts constantly. Ask anyone here (and even those that disagree with me) if that's how I operate. You'll find that most think I'm a fair person when it comes to this discussion. You've lost because you missed the opportunity to take part in that.
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Through different reviewers, begrudgingly or not, the hidden theme is this:
This movie is way better than the sequels that have come out this year and the Special Effects have set a new standard. -
Plot drives story. ESB = simple plot, fantastic story. Does that make it easy for you?
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You're defending Michael Bay, and I'm the intellectual lightweight? Yeah. Please, go watch Just My Luck or whatever crap it is you like.
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Whip it out and have not doubt...if it is awesome, then Pony up.
Let's end this nonsense...WHERE IS CUMPSTON'S REVIEW!!!!!!! -
I find it interesting that you are giving me orders now, even though you've just berated me for doing so. Does that make you a hypocrite, or just an ass?
Methinks both. -
I don't watch South Park, but that quote made me laugh. My daughter is watching The Iron Giant with dinner right now. A damn fine film. Too bad Brad Bird was busy or not offered Transformers. I think he would have made it a great, non-insulting family film.
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So if I basically say, "You lost!", then sign out, would that make me a winner?
Superninja left because she realised she'd shot herself in the foot and wasn't up to the job.
Yackbacker left because he's arrogant and had all his 'points' refuted; he's too used to being agreed with - there was nowhere left for him to go.
'Win'/'Lose' - who gives a fuck? I'm looking forward to this film; if I enjoy it, ultimately, I have 'won'. -
So if I basically say, "You lost!", then sign out, would that make me a winner?
Superninja left because she realised she'd shot herself in the foot and wasn't up to the job.
Yackbacker left because he's arrogant and had all his 'points' refuted; he's too used to being agreed with - there was nowhere left for him to go.
'Win'/'Lose' - who gives a fuck? I'm looking forward to this film; if I enjoy it, ultimately, I have 'won'. -
Love the Fraggle Rock name. At least you seem to have some sense about you.
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I decided to stop the exchange with you. And why? Because it was clearly a waste of my time. But go on saying you refuted my points, whatever makes you feel better. Should I have said "You won!" instead? Hugs?
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"I gave you my checklist and you responded with excuses on each point. We're debating opinions here. What frustrated me in this whole exchange was your constant effort to distort what I was saying to fit your arguments. That is a cheap way to have a discussion/debate. And yes, I am done debating you because you're moving the goal posts constantly. Ask anyone here (and even those that disagree with me) if that's how I operate. You'll find that most think I'm a fair person when it comes to this discussion. You've lost because you missed the opportunity to take part in that."
Show me where I gave you excuses on your checklist - I answered honestly, and gave you my opinions.
Please point out where I have moved any goalposts.
Please show me where I have been 'evasive'.
Most importantly, please show me where I have 'lost', and tell me why this is some sort of 'match'.
Yes, we ARE arguing opinions; it's just that you seem to think YOURS is the only one that counts. -
was *my* perfect choice for this film, I do think he was the only sensible choice out of all the directors the studio could have gone with. I would have loved to see a Brad Bird Transformers film, but in the reality that is Hollywood, this would never have come to pass.
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not as talented.
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I think that the movie industry is the most versatile of pop arts right now. If you want smart action, you got it. If you want drama, you got it. If you want big explosions, you got it, etc. Now when you heard a movie about the Transformers was coming out, what did you expect? If you expected anything other than what's coming out then. . .you're stupid.
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If you'd bothered your stupid arse to actually read the exchange regarding ESB, you would have noticed the bit where I said ESB is my favourite SW film of them all, and being a big SW fan as I am, that's saying something.
Knee-jerk reactions make you look like a fan-boy twat. Or is that just you?
The only thing you should be revoking is your own membership card to the human race. -
But, we can only dream for now.
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I've spent several dozen posts doing just that. I don't need to satisfy your standards because you will always remain intractable. I responded to your excuses point by point. I pointed out your strawmen time and again. I've done my job, trust me. And if you want to, talk to AllSeeingEye or ChildeRoland or Mr. Nice Gaius and ask them if I force my opinions down their throats (these guys are more or less optimistic about the movie). You have a persistent erection for me and that's the sad, sorry truth. Good luck working that one out.
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You seem to have mired yourself in some sort of TINO argument again. As so often what starts out as wanting an honest discussion ends up as more a slagging contest (not attacking you on this).I actually remember the time I had quite a cool discussion with someone who was pro-war and me not. Never got into name calling once . . .yet if we had stayed on the discussion of films who knows what may have happened. What a strange world we live in
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Hugs! Mwah! I AM going to have to leave soon - it's getting late here in Deutschland, but it's been fun - I wouldn't normally stay on a TB this long, wading through knee-deep shite, but you've made it interesting for me!
The rest of you 'true haters' could take some lessons in class from Yack Backer - at least he tries to justify himself in a sensible and fairly rational manner. The rest of you worms just come here to throw shit and see what sticks. -
Do you really think that highly of yourselves that you'd actually believe that studios would spend big money on plants (of which I have been accused) on a well reviewed film?Do you people really have no idea that your opinions are not worth the dusty keyboard you've typed them on and will have little recognisable effect on a films opening weekend or even the overall BO take (X-Men 3 and SoaP for two polar examples)?Of the tens of thousands of people that come to this site to read reviews, only a small handful actually stick around to read TBs and only a smaller handful still actually bother to post.No, anybody typing away in this here TB is here because they like movies and love discussing them.
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I guarantee that film would have been 300% better. Think I'm wrong? Go fellate yourself.
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I will miss these TBs when the movie is long gone.
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insults being hurled I think there is an argument going on about a movie we haven't seen yet. Laf.
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Let's see the difference between Ang Lee and Michael Bay is----Ang Lee makes Good Movies. I would take anything Ang Lee made over Michael Bays' pieces of shit-YEAH that includes The Hulk (Even though he was making a Jeckyl and Hyde film about neglected children and anger- the Hulk scenes were killer.) But you can't argue with somone who thinks Pear Harbor was better filmmaking than Crouching Tiger. There are a lot of people who feel this way---Be afraid Be Very afraid!!
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I saw a Michael Bay interview where he was talking about the military and the C.I.A. asking him about what the terrorist might try to do. We get attacked, and our government runs to Michael Bay to ask what to do. Scary isn't?
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anyone?
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is the lovable scroundrel of AICN talkbacks; give 'em hell, you rapscallion you!
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Well, that kinda makes sense. The military and the C.I.A. have little to no imagination.
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Unfortunately (or fortunately) the sequel will allow plenty more of this time wasting waffling (really sometimes I should do something more useful than post on this site - like sleep)
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I'm a British soldier serving in Germany, and it's five past one in the morning.
If I was a plant, I would have at LEAST have SEEN the fucking film to assist me in my planty duties.
As it stands, I have no emotional investment in this film. It looks like I'll enjoy it; if I don't, I'll mention it - but it'll be a while before I see it.
But if you think this film isn't going to make money and spawn a sequel, I reckon you're pretty fucking far from right; love or hate Bay - this film will have legs, regardless of the fan-boy minority proposed boycotts (as if you're NOT gonna watch it!). -
Is it true that Shia anally renders a feline in this epic, event, blockbuster, paramount of filmmaking?
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Daddy takes on some semblance of what is akin to absorbing man in the marvel cannon and then Hulk pops daddy like a giant water-logged zit at the end with his resentment and not his fists?
Sorry, I humbly must state for the record that a Bay film with Abomination and Hulk pounding on each other would be better than the Pseudo-mythological failure that was Ang Lee's "Crouching Giant, Hidden Logic". The only thing greater than Hulk's strength while beating steroid puppies in this movie was the inability of Lee to convey his message.
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I wouldn't go so far as to call him a master, but he DEFINITELY knows how to emotionally manipulate an audience. And his movies always look gorgeous (although that could likely be his D.P.- who is that BTW?). Anyway, I've always thought he made very watchable films, although I royally hated Pearl Harbor. That "love triangle" was anapropriately out of place, and totally predictable. The Rock, Armageddon, The Island.. bring 'em on!
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I wouldn't go so far as to call him a master, but he DEFINITELY knows how to emotionally manipulate an audience. And his movies always look gorgeous (although that could likely be his D.P.- who is that BTW?). Anyway, I've always thought he made very watchable films, although I royally hated Pearl Harbor. That "love triangle" was inapropriately out of place, and totally predictable. The Rock, Armageddon, The Island.. bring 'em on!
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Did you ever read the first Dark Horse AvP series? Fantastic storytelling, compelling plot...now *that* should have been the movie. While we are on the subject of DH, I enjoyed T3, but if The Burning Earth had been made into a film, it would have been a fine Terminator film. As it stands, we could still see this, thanks to the ending of T3.
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I'm THERE! That's double my enjoyment straight away!
Onscreen Cat-fucking+Popcorn = entertainment! -
Their will be plenty of more TBs for TINO2 & TINO3. And the spin-offs Starscream hearts Megatron and Optimus Prime Begins.
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Another victim, Dickslapped.
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Jun 16, 2007 6:14:33 PM CDT
The use of apologist just becomes more justified.....
by industrykiller!
by the second. Literally at least once a minute someone gets on this talkback and uses the excuse of "It's a movie about giant robots what did you expect?" If you don't post alot on here and you feel compelled to post simply to make that argument don't bother. First of all it's been deconstructed six ways from Sunday and second of all Pawprint already has you covered with the apologies. Sometimes it's Wcoop, today it's Pawprint. They're interchangable really.
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Just cause he's such an asshole. He's like the Yankees, or Kobe Bryant, or Jeff Gordon of filmakers. You just gotta respect somebody evrybody hates.
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Optimus' Caravan of Courage I'm so excited by this spin off I'm not going to sleep for a week
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Phil Norwood's pencils on those issues are still the shit. I would have loved to see more from him, but I realize he is a film storyboarder, not a comic artist. Still, that five issue series was soo good. I even enjoyed the continuation "War" to a degree, just not as much. Eternal was another good AvP series. Too bad about the films though.
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Nice name. How'd that recent solo series resonate with you? I knew someone would counter my corny post with something far more witty. Nice one.
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"I don't know. It's weird." These Trailers and T.V. spots just keep getting better and better.
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I'm tired of saying this; but I'm not apologising for ANYTHING. Please don't labour under the misapprehension that this film means ANYTHING to me... if I hate it, I'll tell you.
What bemuses me is how so many people who haven't seen it can be so venomous in their hatred and belief that this film WILL be shit.
It's already been proven that pre-judging a film by a script isn't a good move, (Matrix, SW etc). I shouldn't need to mention that film is a visual medium; and a script is not a novel. -
Are you an officer or specialist?
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I live in Britain - not a massive amount of comic book stores where I am and also on a tight budget (UK house prices and my mortgage have crippled me - bought at the wrong time) so haven't read much of him. Just know from a few JL books I have and also the JL animated but have been thinking recently I should buy some solo work seeing as though I thought him cool enough to use his moniker. Oh and my style is not to come up with any original amusing comment - just to nick and expand on someone elses
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They are stupid. I used to live in Germany, by the way. You're a lucky man. Bringing your wife was a bad decision, though.
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Have you read the script? Because many of use have, which is why our arguments go deeper than "It's dumb action so just enjoy it". Go read the script (it's readily available), then come back and make your argument based on the merits of the film, and you will have a deeper much better constructed argument that the one you are currently pursuing. It doesn't really count unless you can defend the content of the film itself, which thus far you have failed to do. And before you go on a rant of "You haven't seen the film tehrefore you can't defend or detract based on its content", just know that at this point that argument is irrelevant. MANY sources confirm that the film is the script that was leaked including everything seen in every trailer, plot points revealed, the comic book adaptation which has been released, and cast interviews. Given that, the fact that the look and visual setting of the film is now well documented due to many pics, trailers, and commercials, and the fact that it's incredibly easy to picture Bay's lackluster and predictable directorial style with the minds eye, it's actually very easy to debate about the film itself, but only if you've read the script. So go to it and I'll be looking forward to continuing this chat when you are as informed on the films content as the rest of us.
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Seems obvious to me.
Memories-Of-Murder: the only thing that's embarassing is your continued, hysterical insistence that I AM a plant!
Is it so shocking to you that there might actually be people out here in the real world actually looking forward to this film? -
They inspire too much hate and help people discharge their nerdfrutrations
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Yack, thankyou for supporting us. I'm a bit hazy on American ranks, but I'm not an Officer, I'm a Sergeant - equivalent to a US Staff Sergeant I think.
IK; I haven't read the script, for reasons already explained. I don't doubt that it LOOKS shit - I think that of most scripts. but if you'd be kind enough to post a link, I'll have a look.
Big Dick; did you mean bringing my wife to Germany, or bringing her up on a TB?! :-) -
looking for attention by using caps on your titles you attention grabbing whore you :)
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Why do you read scripts before the movies come out? Do you not want to enjoy the movie to the fullest when it actually comes out?
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Both! Bwahahahahaha! Like I said, don't stress. They're stupid.
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Fair enough - there's no fucking around with you is there?! Straight in for the kill!
I wish to fuck I was on the kind of money a studio plant makes though. -
Flame war is back in da hizzouse! I won't rag on a guy in the service. And if he's lying about it, it's not my job to figure that out. Given the number of lives lost in recent years, that's something that the liar should concern himself with, not me. I assume Paw is telling the truth.
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from his alien ship surveillence equipment to type a message here a mother ship passes by
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Titty bars and casinos. Jealous?
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for every time I've been abducted and anally probed
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Alien Village People will grab your ass.
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We don't come here for the caring and sharing intellectually nurturing atmosphere do we? We come to kick shit around and get nice and dirty. The only losers are the ones who forget it's all a game.
This is the Intrawebs, for fuck's sake! It was invented by machine scientists using Megatron's technology so we could download porn and talk shit on message boards in 'The Matrix', thus keeping us happy in our pods. happy humans produce more power! -
all nice and pretty, but utterly devoid of anything of merit.
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through the SCI-FI top 100 list. Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. They rank The Host above Star Wars. They rank The Terminator above 2001. They rank Eternal Sunshine above Empire Strikes Back. They rank E.T. as number 1! And The Thing is ranked 99th. Oh, my god. I never laughed so much in my life.
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Maybe to see if a movie you have high hopes for sucks or not? Why do people criticize someone for reading a script? Maybe because they want you to be as shocked as they are after wasting two hours and 10 bucks in a theater?
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is better than 2001.
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'WWII ended years ago'! LMAO
We are here in a purely caretaking role now. We patrol the streets to make sure that German women shave their legs and armpits regularly. -
but a part of me likes it. Damn my dark half . .always leaves me shameful the next day
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something or when one falls in my proverbial lap, like TINO. There are different degrees of film fans. I'm pretty into it myself. It's not just a way to pass the time on a Friday night. I have a home theatre, well over 3k discs, etc. etc. It's my secondary hobby. Script reading is something I indulge in very seldom, but I do indulge once in a while. I read several Alien 3 scripts well over a decade ago. Depends on the project.
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Isn't part of enjoying any story the excitement you get from the story unfolding? If you read the script then you already know what happens.
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Well-done! I guess "Jonz" is alien for Hershey Highway, eh?
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First of all don't compare Star Wars and The matrix to any film Michael bay has or will ever direct. I don't think you were trying to do it directly but even offhandedly it's a losing battle. I don't think you or I would disagree, despite our equal like and dislike for Bay, that he has the kind of work either of those two films offer in him. no reasonable film lover could ever say something that absurd. Anyway, you gotta trust me dude, no matter how rough the original Star Wars or Matrix scripts were, Transformers is worse. it's an absolutely awful script full of some of the least likable and cliched non-characters since Bay's own Pearl Harbor. And you say "film is a visual medium" well that's true, but the visual is now well established in the film and maybe you can't picture in your minds eye exactly how this film looks but I can. Clear as day. Bay's "style" makes it pretty obvious and i've now seen clips of pretty much every major battle scene in the film and while the effects are impressive it's not light years beyond what we've come to expect and it would have to be given how awful everything else is. Remember there is a huge non-robot component tot his film, one film with aformentioned terrible human characters. And none of the actors involved have the charisma or chops to make them interesting. I don't care how many glowing praises Dreamworks buys for Shia Labeouf from the media, it's just not happening. You know what man we really can't go any further than this until you read it. So you may say that since I haven't seen the movie I don't know for sure, well given that i've read the script I am at least a few steps closer to the reality of it than you are.
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I have no come back . . .but I'll probably wake up at 4am with a real witty comeback, and havind earned another 5 bucks for BSB
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Not always indicative of quality; I read the script for SW EPIII ROTS before I'd seen the film, and the script was SHIT.
Turns out the film was too. Who fucking knows, eh?! -
Mostly, I read scripts to supplement films I've already seen sometimes- something where alternate plot points or missing scenes are included. When it's a project that hasn't been released yet, I usually don't read the thing (unless it's a movie that has piqued my curiosity). 3K discs? Shit, you better get the Oppo upconverting DVD player, son!
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Tried watching the original. Couldn't do it.
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This movie might be fun if your a retarded chimp with half your brain missing. Seeing as how I'm not, I'll spend my time and money seeing a GOOD movie, like Fantastic Four 2, In theatres now!
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I read the book long before the film was made. Same with Perfume and Dune and etc. etc.. Didn't ruin my enjoyment of said films one bit. Same with reading a script. I like suprise and excitement a the next guy/gal. Doesn't keep me from reading. Honestly, if I had to choose between watching film or reading, you bet your ass I would choose reading. No contest. Can't I love both though?
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wait a minute -bourne supremacy was pg13 to the first one's R and had shaky camera bullshit to try to tone down the violence. And shaky camera carchase bullshit which is what I thought was one of the things people hate about bay so I don't know what your point is- I guess I wanted another ludicrous scene of a badguy armed to the hilt entering the room by smashing his own face and body through plate glass(good tactic?)- followed by one of the best staged fight scenes in movie history like the first one had.
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2001. You sir, are an idiot. 2001 is the greatest Sci-fi movie of all time. I'll take 2001 over E.T. any day. Oh, and Minority Report was ranked number 5. The Host number 7. Really, WTF is that?
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Why be so accepting of crap? Why "go see it anyway"? Until you stop paying for and promoting a subpar product you will continue to receive it. Sometimes nothing is better. The cast for this movie is horrible. That guy who plays Shite LaPouf's dad is one of THE worst cheeseball character actors in hollywood. You see them in the trailers and wince. Evey review on AintItCool.com (a Steven Spieldberg Production) begins by admiting it is style over substance. Then goes on to say but it has great effects. So what- rollerskating bots that have eyeballs so the can "emote"? A good animator can make a red bouncing ball or a sack of flour "emote". Regrettably this crap movie will make money initially, but they will get bit in the ass regarding repeat business. That is where the fanbase comes in. That is where the studios are noticing that the target audience is not coming back for a subpar product. http://tinyurl.com/37veha
That is why there is such a negative reaction to this movie. We the gainfully employed family raising informed market saavvy fanbase are tired of your shit sandwich, take it back and send the filet we ordered. ....and also you (marketing machine) telling me it isn't when I know fully well that it is won't change it. The customer is informed and the days of seeing TPM 9 times in the theatre are gone. -
And that's cool! What kind of TV do you have?
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I wasn't comparing those films to any of Bay's work, I was using the Matrix & SW as script examples, and ESB as an example of basic plot.
I wouldn't compare any of Bay's films to those films - least of all because Bay doesn't make that kind of film. Bay's films are about style and spectacle. I will happily admit to liking The Rock and Bad Boys - being two of the three films of his I've seen (hated BB2). But I really have no opinion on Bay as a director, despite his 2 out of 3 hit-rate (for me).
I usually stay away from scripts because they can bias you against a film falsely, ruin it or give you false expectation. And let's be honest - a script isn't an interesting read by it's very nature; they aren't novels. -
bringing out the passive aggressive fag in all of us.
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You make me smile. It's a beauty isn't it? You have one too I take it?
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Minority Report#5....and the hilarity ensues.
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I'm off now - my spelling and sentence structure are proper suffering because I'm so tired!Keep on keeping on!
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I'm so freakin confused about which to get. I lean towards LCD because its resolution is "true HD" but then I see how beautiful plasmas look, with their colors and contrast ratio. Help me!!!!!!!!
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Samsung 40" LCD. It works fine for me, for now. I need to move up though.
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So who told you that 2001 is better than The Terminator? I doubt you formed that opinion on your own. The greatest Sci-Fi film of all time? Sounds like something you got out of a book. Let me guess, you're too afraid to form your own opinions so you depend on "respected" critics to form them for you. lost.rules, you're feminine.
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I'm about to change mine (tube is going). I'm going the way of the LCD HDTV type doofah - prefer the picture to plasma which has never seemed quite right to me
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That was a great review. I will definetly go see it now. I mean it has tits and explosions and giant fighting robots. What more could you want?
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LCD rules all. Just my opinion, not fact. I game a lot too, so LCD pwns Plasma for gaming.
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Shakespeare would be proud, Little Dick.
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"when gay just isn't gay enough"
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If you're not offended by being called feminine then you must be. Memories of Murder, you are feminine.
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You think Cameron was trying to be Shakespeare? You're dumber than I thought. No wonder you're so upset with the Transformers movie.
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so Plasma is awesome for watching films. But then again, Plasmas lose their mojo after a few years of use. LCDs have strange technical problems too (clouding) but my bottom line is that for $2K and above, these sets should be fucking awesome, no defects, etc. I'm going to wait a year and see what happens (unless the prices continue to drop!)
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I know you're a studio plant and all, but you gotta admit The Terminator hasn't aged well. Oh, and what's it like to have Michael Bay's dick in your mouth?
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I just couldn't resist. I really don't like the plasma performace issues & longevity though..
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Prices will drop further and something new and better will rpobably come out - seems to happen every couple of years
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It's funny how Memories tries to protect Lost.Rules. I knew there was something to my feminine comment. So who plays the woman?
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You're the one with a boyfriend trying to protect you on the board. How does Memories of Murders sh-it taste?
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I want to throw myself into Oppo land and watch THE THIRD MAN in glorious upscaled HD!
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You're the one with a boyfriend trying to protect you on the board. How does Memories of Murder's sh-it taste?
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It tastes nutty.
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How long can Michael Gay keep it up? Does he go for hours?
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Did you know I had that horrible Third Man post of mine removed by an AICN admin? Yeah, I'm a dork, but I felt like a total asshole spoiling that film. I hate those who spoil without proper warning. The Third Man (new double dip version) looks sweet. The OPPO will not disappoint you. Watched it last night.
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If the OFFICIAL TF WAR has FINALLY started, I NEED TO KNOW WHAT SIDE I'm ON!!!!
ARE THE FANS/APOLOGISTS/OPTIMISTS/PRO-BAY/WAIT-TO-SEE it TYPES Autobots or Decepticons????
ARE THE HATERS/BAY-BASHERS/PESSIMISTS Autobots or Decepticons????
We have a real Machiavellian conundrum. I must know so I can slay my enemies with electronic prose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
TRANSFORMERS is akin to an expensive Charlie Band movie; not unlike Band, entrepreneur Michael Bay has tailored a product reel for toy puppets and action figures. After milking the franchise, Bay's robots will cross over to other mediums to test the currency ($$$): the robots will dress in drag for a Hallmark "Little Women" special...a couple of the robots will tap dance for Hillary Clinton's fundraisers ("Why aren't you boys wearing pants?," Hillary grins as Bill Clinton draws a bull's eye on the roof of his Harlem office: "You boys can use this as target practice, I wouldn't be caught dead in this neighborhood")...and then there's the inevitable Christmas special (the robots destroy Mexico to avenge Santa's abduction). Bitch all you want, I'm sure the movie will look slick and make a ton of money: its corrosive influence may bring back silent movies (no dialogue necessary, just an audio track full of explosions).
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cause the humans characters suck!
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I don't know about Michael Bay, but from what I hear from the Washington Redskins, your mom has some stamina.
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So original, little dick. But if you're a Redskins fan, then it you that I pitty.
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Michael Bay a never was
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Yours was an honest mistake. I was freaking out when I saw the post, thinking "NO!!!" But in the end, that was pretty funny stuff. So,where do you fall on the next-gen disc debate? HD-DVD or BR?
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I read halfway through the first one before I realized I'd probably just ruined the entire movie for myself. Thanks, Ain't It Cool.
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but apparently your mom is.
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But I don't join in on the debates. You know what looks sweet upscaled? To Catch A Thief. Tiggity-tight.
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Oh, Spoiler alert.
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I would talk about your spelling and grammar but that's above me, even though it is at a 5th grade level. It's OK if you have a secret relationship with lost.rules. You're so worried about my closet it's apparant that you're in one. Lost.rules also already let the world know that he know how your s-hit tastes. Even if that experience didn't come from something sexual, I'm sure it was fucked up, whatever it was.
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I'm starting to fear this movie was designed to cause a civil war, so that we destroy ourselves!
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You need them all basically. If microsoft has their way there won't be an hd disc format in 5 years. You'll be paying for a subpar download that's only 720rez with compressed audio that will expire on you.
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I cant believe How many times you've typed the same thing over and over and Pawprint refuses to get it. At the same time for someone who has no sentiment in Transformers why do you protest. Your whole argument is that Transformers is not worthy of being taken seriously If thats the case what the hell is the point of making a movie about them. If Speilberg, Bay, or any of the other studios that Desanto and Murphy said passed on the oppertunity where smart, according to you they could have stole the Idea named the movie something else and made as much money and not pissed any one off but Desanto and Donnie 2'C,s.
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Your name is Big Dick. Oh, it's like being on the playground again.
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Like with Ricky H
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Thanks for noticing my tempered approach. I may not have made any progress with Paw, but I think it was obvious that I gave him a fair shake.
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caught your attention didn't it. Now who's gay?
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Rickey and I hatched that over beers one night. Ah, we had some of you going for a bit. I love how BSB immediately started yelling at Rickey too. Classic stuff. You live in DC, am I right?
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I HATE Ang 'BrokeDick Lee's Hulk debacle.
Hail fighting robots! -
saw "Big Dick" and started thinking about Memories-of-Murder.
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Your in NYC if I remember Correctly.
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saw "Big Dick" and started thinking about Memories-of-Murder.
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The Transformers Brand has value. Hasbro had their best year ever last year and Tformers was the tentpole. Hasbro has the organization/licensing/and distribution setup already. Plus Spieldburb et al. knew they could easily get buy in from a major auto manufacturer. why makeup something when a franchise that has a 20 year history (to be mostly ignored) is sitting waiting to go. Hasbro is as much to blame for the Transbayers, they signed off on it. Meanwhile they make money on the classics line and the 15 different variations of those new crappy looking things with the suck ass face sculpts.
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I'm tired of this TB. Your all GAY! I'm GAY. EVERTHING IS GAY! Especially, Michael Bay. Good night.
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Ummmm no. Bay directs shit films. Hasbro just sell toys and will happily have shit films made if it sells more toys.
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Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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They could have stopped his eyeball having goatee hanging no mouth guard on all the time air vent covered flame enhanced chicken legged abomination.. yet they were complicit. Bay had all the shitty ideas and they could have said "no".
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goes to.... Ben Affleck. Oh, Shia Lebouf is devestated. This is a real upset.
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That's why I always have and always will blame Hasbro. They should have demanded better treatment of their IP.
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They have toys to sell. Bay just peddles shit and probably thinks its quality
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It was that "Tom Hanks" quality that put him over the top. Catch him in 9 different films all at the same time this summer. "This years Collin Farrell" - Shite Lapouf is here to stay!
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I'm out too.
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So there.
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so there
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Mummy wow!! I count big numbers now!
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"some of the action here (...) is so fast that it's hard to distinguish who is who, who is good, who is bad and what's happening. I think that's why I missed Megatron's arm cannon." I'm laughing my ass off here. ALRIGHT, SO THE ACTION IS UBER COOL BUT YOU CANT SEE SHIT. Is that it? That's what I call great filmmaking !! All of you should go suck Michael Bay's dick.
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In thirty years these films (TINO, POTC, ect.) will be like mordern day predictable 80's action movies. Stale scripts, outdated special effects, and marked lower than $5.99 at Wal Mart.
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CAN... NOT... WAIT!!!
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You can call me "Please Don't Get Me Fired, Obscenely Rich Studio Execs!"
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...didn't have to have this disclaimer of being admittedly "stupid" or merely "popcorn"? Hell, there had to be some of them, didn't there? I'm not merely being grumpy, old, and mistakenly nostalgic, am I? Hell, the second review lost me when it said "it certainly is a Michael Bay film." All the apologist bullshit in the world about great effects and good action will never replace true characters and dialogue and a plot that makes sense, which is a rather minimal request in the first place.Who knows? Maybe I'll enjoy this, and I'll readily admit it if I do. I simply do feel sometimes as if the bar of what constitutes a good summer movie continues to be lowered.
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you still don't get it do you? if someone is going to make a LIVE ACTION transformers movie, shouldn't it be the man who is notorious for spending more money than anyone in history on his projects. bottom line...LIVE ACTION transformers is about one thing. seeing giant fucking robots go head to head in a giant spectacle for the eyes. this is a SPECIAL EFFECTS DRIVEN MOVIE. as it should be...so get the fuck over it...fucking haters.
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But here's the deal guys...if you loved transformers cartoons as kids like I did and are pissed because you think this movie's gonna suck due to Bay's alterations and you really want a movie more like the cartoons then I suggest you rent or tivo some of the old episodes (ie: not the movie) and then check back in with me as to how much you REALLY want a movie based on the cartoons.And here's why: THEY'RE AWFUL. TRULY TERRIBLE. THE WORST. Its true fellas and you've got to face up to it. You liked them at age 8 and if you're expecting a movie which is translated directly from the cartoon to keep you interested age 32 you're not in the right frame of mind.I'm prepared to get flamed for this but in the end the transformers are just a toy line from takara and bandai combined from 1974 which hasbro got their hands on ten years later and created a story around them which never existed.If you want something from your golden age 80's childhood with good characterization and story rent or dvr/on-demand Say Anything.That is all...
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One: Bumblebee is a camaro because VW refuses to allow their cars to be used in warfare. Been that way for 20 years... One of the reasons you haven't seen much of BB in Transformers since G1. Same with the Porche Jazz. Porche is mostly controlled by VW, so same rules apply.
Other thing I can't wait to see is the on screen battle between a camaro and a mustang... Two lifelong rivals still duking it out, but this time in actual combat! Worth a ticket by itself! -
Anybody who's been following the PUSSY ON OPTIMUS TB saga for any amount of time longer than 5 minutes should know that very little criticism about this movie has anything to do with how closely it matches the cartoon. It has much more to do with the fact that PUSSY ON OPTIMUS is just going to be a shitty movie, chock full of all the dumbass bullshit that caters to the lowest common denominator and insults the intelligence of everyone else (which is apparently a very small number of TBers). Flames on Optimus is the Transformers equivalent of organic webshooters, and in a decent movie it wouldn't have mattered as much if at all.
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I've followed TF from the beginning, like quite a few of you. I enjoyed it immensely as a child and as a 36 year old adult with children, I still get a smile from it. As an adult now I can also see the flaws in the cartoon and animated film, but nostalgia and that childhood connection cause me to chuckle at those moments. The good and bad of the material both add to the character of it, I believe. (Personally, I feel the comics we're better written).
As far as the live action film, I don't get the impression that it is unwatchable. I certainly can understand the disappointment that a lot of us "Purist Fans" feel with the poor script, radical departure in designs, and the choice of Michael Bay as director. But it's time to end the debate. The film is made my friends. We've reached the point of no return on this one I'm afraid.
Despite the problems, this film will still touch on your nostalgia-bone, it will still draw both ire and smiles, it will still draw you back to your childhood and I think that's the most important part.
I am not making excuses for poor film making, especially with Mr. Spielberg, to me it's disrespectful to us the consumer. Why? Because we know he is capable of top notch work. We should always expect the best from whatever it is we spend our hard earned dollars on, movies or otherwise.
I can't help but feel that flaws and all, we will still enjoy this movie. Sure there will be moments where we cringe, but as I mentioned earlier the source material has those moments as well. There will also be those times when our inner child is reawakened and bursts out of us with cries of HOOAH! and the like. And I am willing to bet there will be more of the latter than the former.
If the film ends up being really poor, in a few years it will be remade and perhaps done better, like Batman Begins. It's a shame it wasn't done to perfection the first go round, but what is perfect besides Plato's dialogs and our Lord? Not much. A bad TF film or a good TF film will not change the world I'm afraid. Just give it a chance and then decide for yourselves if it's good or bad, isn't that capitalism? Vote with your dollar right? Those who liked it will see it multiple times, those who don't won't. I'm just sorry to see all the violent and disrespectful hate speech being hurled back and forth. We all love the TF's shouldn't that bring us together? I, for one, will go and see the film on the 4th (my son's bday!) in the hopes that the film will bring forth my feelings of nostalgia and create a new generation of fans in our children that will grow up to love the TF's modernized for a new era.
See you there!
-Dude
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nerds (I say nerds, because geeks are at least technically proficient at something) enjoyed movies through eyes, unjaded, young, and innocent. Alas, they grew up unfullfilled and found an outlet that made them feel important - turning them into jaded, self-obsessed, self-righteous, counter-productive, non-constructive, denegrating mouthbreathers that need a good punch in the neck.
The end. -
and in truth I only read a few dozen of the 700+ posts in this talkback but I have read others and from what I could tell people were angry at the simple alterations to a story line that was really nothing more than a 22 minute commercial for a kit-bashed toyline. I hope that makes sense.In the end I can see and understand why die-hard fans are screaming TINO over and over again but hey the beauty of the situation here is that we can choose to see the movie or not. I for one am going for the hot tits broad...
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I hope this movie is such a blast to watch that haters break their necks falling over each other to post about the minutia(e)that they "know" equals the end of good movie-making as we know it. At least by then, they can justify it by saying they have seen it. laf.
I hope it is Jurassic Park meets Ghostbusters meets Big Trouble in Little China meets Cameron's Alien(s) good. That's right, I went there. -
From the review - "I liked how even some of the Autobots wonder why they can't just do away with the pesky humans but Optimus insists that have as much a right to live as they do." - there it is in a fucking nutshell, and if you don't understand what I'm saying then you're retarded and deserve more shit like FF2.
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I was gonna write this lengthy post, then I read yours and it expressed my views exactly. Transformers was second only to Star Wars when I was a kid. I waited forever for a Transformers film to be made. Michael Bay is directing, I never cared for his films, save The Rock. They changed some of the mythology. Where's the matrix, ark, spark, oracle? The film is made, we can't change that. I hope it's fun and brings me back 20 years. Call me optimistic. Let's hope the movie does well, warrants a sequel, execs take it more seriously and Michael Bay doesn't want to touch it!!
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Perhaps you are right. I don't know if I would characterize it as "Pissing all over TF" per say, he's just presenting his vision of TF. His vision just differs from ours. It's all in the eye of the beholder. I would personally prefer the gen 1 characters myself, and I feel the same way with Superman and the X-Men, give me the originals. I also wanted to see a true Galactus, but that's not the way it worked out. Instead of being angry at each other over our opinions, direct it at the studio, it would be more constructive. I stand by what I said earlier, there will be parts we'll love and parts we won't as with all things. I find it hard to believe that Michael Bay is a vindictive person that intentionally made a film that fans of the source material would hate. I think he's trying to draw in a new generation, our children. I mean seriously, look at Beast Wars, Energon, etc.. in my mind those spin off's we're poor and I don't factor them into TF lore. Perhaps this film will be viewed similarly, perhaps it will be better, we'll just have to wait and see. Truthfully I can't imagine it being worse than Beast Wars.
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FF2 made? Was it "good"? Did Shia "fuck" a cat?
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Thank you for your kind words. If only I could have expressed myself as succinctly as you did! :) I too am a "glass half full" sort of guy and I'm hoping for the best. I doubt Mr. Bay would touch a sequel, he doesn't seem to do them. Yay! :) Personally flames on Optimus didn't rile me as much as Starscream's redesign, Megatron's redesign, and Optimus speaking with a visible mouth. But I will live! And I will drop a line to the studio requesting that the next film give a bit more back to us "old schoolers." At this point that's all we can really do anyway.
Cheers!
-Dude -
As a 26-year-old man, I can't imagine anything more embarassing than being scorned for buying the wrong kind of toys. I wouldn't be able to show up for club rugby for a while, that's for sure.
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and watch the pilot episodes of Transformers wondering will I like them with 29 yr old eyes and guess what? The show holds up. The Reason why the Transformers came to earth, what happens afterwards is all believable. Not to say it perfect but that Pilot could have been adapted into a workable plausible script. The one thing this project has been missing since Bay was announced was Respect and that why we hate, The complete and utter lack of respect.
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I am sorry that those "fans" ridicule others for looking forward to seeing this film. That to me speaks volumes to the immaturity and intolerance that is being vocalized in this debate. I wish more would just agree to disagree. :) I can't speak for Mr. Bay, I don't know him or anyone famous, hell I've never been to Hollywood. It is possible he doesn't share our feelings on the material, then again isn't it possible he wants to evolve it for modern times? I just don't know. I don't think it would've been difficult to find someone who shared a love for TF like Peter Jackson had with LOTR, but perhaps those directors were not available or they didn't have the experience or skill? It's anyone's guess. I have faith that someday we will get the film you and I and many others dream of seeing, but until that day, until all are one ;) we will have to write the studio and give this run at it a shot. On a side note I am very interested to hear from you and others on what you would have liked to see in a TF film. Not what you would change in this one but what did/do you have in mind as the ideal TF film? I can't wait to hear everyone's ideas!
Cheers!
-Dude -
Beast Machines I kinda enjoyed. Only lasted 2 seasons and ended kinda lame. Cybertron transformed into a bio-mechanical paradise. The problem with all of the TF cartoons is that there wasn't a clearly-define universe, no timeline. I think Hasbro is to blame for this. Optimus is a truck, firetruck, plane, ape! Megatron is a gun, tank, T-rex, dragon!
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BAY DIDN'T RAPE YOUR CHILDHOOD..THAT WAS YOUR FATHER WHO DID THAT, LOL!
And as for DudeManDude?
His was the most intelligent view in this entire blog. -
Yeh, all the damn TRANSFORMER toys are entirely inflexible: zip mobility, zip transformation. Check-out the "talking robot" action figure. Pull the string and it says, "You paid $10 to see this crapfest of a movie? Asshole! HahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHA! Douchebag!" It'll be the Christmas gift that keeps on giving..."
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I'm going to HATE this film. My fucking bad indeed.
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The ideal film for me? Starts like G1. Shows the different personalities of the autobots and deceps. Show cybertron. Also the special abilities. Mirage-invisibility. Hound-holograms. Starscream-null rays. I support an 'upgraded' design to the G1. The key design point would be to make them as close to the originals as possible, while making them believable and realistic. The story should be about the TRANSFORMERS. surprise. It is the name of the movie. Though human interaction would give a good POV perspective.
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I agree with you that the pilot would make a great film with a few tweaks here and there. That's the direction I would have taken (guess that's why they didn't call me for the job!). :) I agree with you again Mr. Von Boner with your comment on the TF universe. They were all over the map! A clearly defined universe would've helped a lot!
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Firstly let me say thank you very much for your kind words Boogy110. You brought quite a smile to my face :) SicklyVonBoner, once again you and I are in agreement. You just gave , in my mind, the outline for a wonderful TF film! You my friend should pen out a story and run with it. I say this because I believe what you stated is the story/film the majority of us fans wanted to see. Bravo for hitting it directly on the head!
Cheers
-Dude -
Thanks for bringing the talkback to a respectable level for a change. I understand the haters. I just choose not to be one until I see the movie. After all, I just like going to the movies.
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I am completely ignorant of the workings of Hollywood and film in many regards. My question is, how much control over a film does a director actually have? Can the director change a script or do they have to work within that framework? What about the producers and studio, what control or input over the film do they have? I'm curious because I wonder where the buck stops, so to speak. Does the blame lie on Mr. Bay or the individual who penned the script?
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You're quite welcome. ;) I've been a casual reader to this website since it's interception but I've rarely if ever participated in any discussion. I just wanted to put in my two cents like anyone else I suppose! :) Personally, I'm not big into reviews myself, I can make up my own mind on a film without a strangers' help, yano? But I do like to read through them after I've seen a movie to see where the critic and myself agreed and disagreed. In truth I find the reviews to be of rather poor quality on this website and find the news of upcoming films to be more informative. :)
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I believe the job of the director is to take the story from the script and put it into visual/audio form. They 'interpret' the material and put their twists and takes on the story to film. They direct the sets, the actors, the effects. Some directors have more say then others. Some tweak or change the script as they see fit. This can be bad if the script is good, or can help a poor script. That, I think, makes them the most important part in the creation of a movie. I wonder if anyone who knows/works in the business can comment?
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Honestly. Talkbackers don't defined my life. Most people I know are actually psyched to see this movie and I'll admit a part of me is too. I couldn't believe this many talkbackers were interested in this film. I could believe I'm hearing people at work talking about seeing this movie. Damn Michael Bay for making me interested in one of his films. If it sucks, I'll gladly admit it. God knows there's been alot of bad flicks lately. I have a feeling I'll like some parts, but loathe others, like Spidey 3. I just can't shoot down a film I haven't seen. That's just me.
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....and he typed "Optimus Prime: My bad.".....didn't he feel like a total retard in that moment?
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Okay, your description of the directors' roll makes perfect sense to me. Then I would have to say if this film turns out to be disappointing then the blame would have to fall on Mr. Bay and the writer of the script as well as the studio for approving a sub-par script, with the majority of the weight falling on Mr. Bays' shoulders. That being said I feel much the same way as you do about the film and film quality in general as of late. There will be enjoyable moments and areas that could use improvement. Movies as of late have been quite horrid in my opinion. I am finding it ever more difficult to add much to my DVD library these days, which is a shame. When I observe Hollywood I can't help but realize the golden era has passed in many ways. :(
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To me had the best films in the sci-fi and action genres. Hollywood needs a reboot.
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for me. Gotta work 12 hrs tomorrow. Later kids. Play nice.
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...in any way shape or form, but here goes.
While Bay is certainly a hack and has had a lot of control over this, there are a lot of people who have a big say in how a movie is created. The producers and investors control the money and inevitably they will demand to be heard and get something they want into a film, and since a director works for them it happens all the time. The phrase "You know what I think would be cool in this movie?" could be translated into "Here's my new idea that you are going to put into the movie whether you like it or not." It's a disgusting game that is constantly played in Hollywood.
The flipside to that is surrounding yourself with "Yes Men" and controlling every teenie aspect of your movie from the money right on through to editing like George Lucas, also a very bad and disgusting way to go.
Independant filmmakers are the closest thing we're ever going to get to having actual artists working on films, but I keep hoping that some of our bitching about this and crap like FF2 might actually be heard eventually and maybe someone in Hollywood will find in themselves some shread of dignity and integrity.
**cue John Lennon's Imagine**
FADE TO BLACK -
Well at least the ramblin' and workin' tomorrow! ;) It was a pure pleasure to talk with everyone this evening! I hope everyone has a great night! Cheers -Dude
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All I do now in a TF talkbacks is look for BSB and Yackbacker posts to make sure I don't say the same things.
We are of like opinions on this I think so everything I would say has already been said except this.
Bayformers Kun-Fu is weak. All flash and no power. -
Apparently I need commas, and to fix my "G" key so that it's Kung-Fu instead of Kun-Fu.
Typos anyone? -
Jun 17, 2007 2:42:47 AM CDT
some dark knight set photos for you guys
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yunatron/sets/72157600351095408/
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I think the pilot could have definitely been reworked into a live action film. I love the idea that the Autobots and Decepticons both want to get home to Cybertron. The Autobots want to protect the humans on Earth but they will keep the battle here amongst the humans by sabotaging the Decepticons launch to Cybertron to keep Megatron from going back to their home world and claiming it. There is an interesting struggle there. They want to protect the humans but not at the expense of giving up Cybertron to the Decepticons.One of the coolest factors to me was that they were crashed here on Earth for 4 million years. EVEN BEFORE humans had evolved. I love that. It drives the point home how ancient and yet advanced these creatures are. It forces you to imagine how many civilizations there must be out there if these robots have an inbred instinctive function to disguise themselves as a civilizations vehicles. It really makes you as a human, feel small in a suddenly much larger universe. And then you see Megatron and Starscream calling the humans "pathetic flesh creatures" "earth germs" etc and laughing at our military trying to take them down. The extent of the Decepticon power coupled with the extent of their technological prowess and ancientness makes humans just seem very small in contrast to everything. The only ones woul could possibly save us would be the Autobots.
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"It's funny when he changes the radio station for songs to create a mood between Sam and to-be girlfriend Mikaela." Great. An homage to "Herbie, the Love Bug." Oh, well. Gotta have the comic relief for the kiddies, I guess.
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It looks cool as balls! Anyway, hope to meet more of you narcissistic bastrds! lol Caveman out!
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But you get the gist. Oh and damn you Michael Bay!! (just to fit in)
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The staff has come up with rediculous reasons as to why the Pilot wouldn't work and basically stated that the Transformer origin and purpose had to be simplified In the first 2 minutes of the pilot the narrator explains everything that needs to be known about the Transformers. Now I just saw Desanto on a TV show, and It's funny he's a producer and he claims that he's Transfomer fanboy from jersey but I questioned Bay about the Flames and basically he said, Bay said some crap about camera angles and he bout it, Then when question about the lips Desanto Said something to the like that when someone speaks you need to be able to see there lips but shoots his own answer down by saying that "They where able to convey that with Vader by the nodding of his head" and glosses over his own answer. Its funny he and Murphy are the producer but it seems The became Bay's bitch hook, line, and sinker. Oh yeah he called Soundwave a Boombox, Soundwave was tape player Blaster was a Boom box. SO desanto himself could be considered a Plant.
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Flames on Optimus make him the sexiest tomboy beanpole on the planet
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Flames on Optimus make him have a beer and cheets on his wife
Is anyone still here?? -
Um though not quite as vehemently, anyway, It looks cool enough I guess
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go look at the lame preppy boys car you see
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We are the only ones up, anyway, I have found your previous posts postively entertaining, u multi-banned bastard! lol keep up the good word! Oh and Hulk Hogan said to Optimus :You look like a flaming pussy, Brother!"
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That would make a foxy WW
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So basically you mean Damn you Michael Bay?
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“…the plot is paper-thin but it doesn't even matter.”“It's funny when he changes the radio station for songs to create a mood between Sam and to-be girlfriend Mikaela…”“Megan Fox…her dialogue is drivel and she serves almost no purpose other than the unlikely love interest. ““…but all of Bay's signature directorial moves are there. The same bombastic music and musical cues he always uses, the illogical chases (run the bad guy's so close!, jumpcut, the bad guy is inexplicably gone), the crazy authority figure (John Turturro, in his worst role I have seen), the nonstop-shouting-as-witty-dialogue, and, of course, great production values and effects.”In essence, they both liked the special effects, the transformations and battle scenes. So, in effect, it’s just a bunch of really cool cut scenes from some console video game system. Sounds like a classic.But, holding true to the purpose of the cartoon series, we now have a two hour commercial for toys. Not only that, we have to PAY to see the commercial! Rather, a bunch of you will. Bay has burned me enough with his crapfests, no more money from my pocket. This guy directed Bad Boys I & II, The Island, Armageddon, and Pearl Harbor…for God sakes, people, PEARL HARBOR!!! This guy should be paying us to see his movies!
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Hey your my first reply! Thanks dude! Oh and f*** Michael Bay up his shallow arse!
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Jun 17, 2007 5:57:28 AM CDT
cavemanthanks and i hate getting fuckin banned
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
and m-o-m bad boys 2 was fuckin tite. your crazy! your crazy! your crazy! your crazy! your crazy! your crazy! and cut
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Jun 17, 2007 6:00:54 AM CDT
DAMN kim kasharian knows how to give head
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
its incredible. and know im not beatin the meat i just wanted to see what all the fuss over her was about. and the fuss is good.
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Summer popcorn films as they've been called for ages (i think) are just that almost all the ones that get reviewed that aren't Pixar or Knocked up type films seem to get the blunt end but remember you're still watching and it's all about the effects and action for these..period
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OK it's got cars that turn into robots, got that. But what is it fucking ABOUT? Star Wars is about good and evil. Harry Potter is about growing up. X Men was about being different. (All subject to interpretation - but at least there's something to interpret, yeah?) So... What is TRANFORMERS about? What's it actually FUCKING ABOUT? NOTHING??? WHAT A FUCKING SURPRISE!!! You mean it's a stunning collection of action set-pieces that everyone will have forgotten by Christmas? No? An empty vacuous movie from the man who gave us Bad Boys 2??? No, REALLY? By the way, the next guy who writes 'it's not meant to be fucking Shakespeare' is a total, a TOTAL and UTTER dickhead. Out.
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it's almost too easy now...let me guess the good reviews will come in for Hot Rod,SuperBad,and the Ten...not saying they wont be good but really...I will go to see almost every summer action and comedy out there..and not take it so freakin serious...I see many films but this is one of my only posts and even as I'm writing I'm thinking wow why am I doing this I've become one of the people who go see everything then bitch about it go again to the same type of film bitch some more...this persrson sucks that director sucks oh watch me go again to see their next film shit that sucked...very boring...wow very lame.
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since i cant find christina milian anywhere
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...it's really lame to try to distinguish between a good movie that has ambition and integrity and humanity, and something that is designed to entertain us but no more than that. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH TRYING TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION? Everyone on this site makes that distinction in retropect - for example, Harry is very clear in his DVD column about what is an essential film, and what is an entertaining diversion - but for some reason when it comes to summer blockbusters everyone here decides to roll over and take it up the ass - hard - from the mafor studios. Why is that?
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The way I see it, supporting comic book movies means helping ensure more get made. Sure most of them are silly crap but for all the mediocre ones like ff and daredevil, once in a while you get a spiderman 2 or batman begins and not supporting means not getting the diamonds among the dirt. Just enjoy them where you can, because this is as good as it will get for us genre fans i.m.h.o.
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Jun 17, 2007 6:35:02 AM CDT
because harry liked the blair witch 2
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
new phenomom right there. like FLAMES ON OPTIMUS and damn you michael bay. this will be added to the list . BECAUSE HARRY LIKED THE BLAIR WITCH 2. seriously wtf was he thinking lol
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How can this movie destroy what Transformers means to you? How? Is it gonna kick you inner child in the nuts take his Transformers lunch box and toys away and shit on them? What you're saying makes absolutely not fuckin' sense dude. The only thing that can tarnish what Transformers means to you is you. Bay can't do it. LaBeouf can't do it. Paramount can't do it. Only you hold the power to fuck up your own childhood. Don't look over to Bay and blame him for being too overly sensitive. I know Transformers means a lot to a lot of people. The Flames on Optimus is (I admit) a bit unorthodox and I figured as soon as I heard that Bay was directing it wouldn't be stocked on award winning story and performances. I had hoped Spielberg would come down off of his playmountain and direct this one. But he's giving us Indy 4 so I'll forgive him.
I grew up watching Transformers, had some of the toys, watched the weird Beast Wars saga, and all that 90's stuff. It's a great premise. But this movie isn't going to fuck up what Transformers means to you unless you fuck it up yourself.
BTW, wtf is up with all of these shitty reviews lately? Half the reviews on this site aren't even factual. Do you guys let any inebriated(sp?) idiot turn these damn things in? I watched F4:ROSS today, with my wife, for the fact I read that they got the Surfer right. They did, the movie wasn't half bad. But one of these legit. reviews stated that The Gaurdian showed up after the credits looking down on Earth. BS! pure bullshit. Another one for Spidey 3 stated twice, that it showed the lizard at the end, and another stated that Venom popped into screen. You really need to reign in this dipshit reviews. This site is becoming as reliable as playing craps. -
It's probably a bit late, but your reply just shows to me the age of your mentality. It's sad and pathetic. If you havent seen the film then stop your unjustified hating.
When I see the film and IF it turns out to be crap and I don't enjoy then I will voice my disapointment NOT before. I did the same with Spider-Man 3 a film I was hugely disapointed with. Now with Transformers all I am expecting in some kick ass action scenes and some story to tie them together.
Now I am no Bay Apologist, Pearl Harbour was a load of crap, Armageddon started of ok but turned into a pile of sentimental drivel, Badboys 2 was style over substance but ok. I did enjoy the Island. -
Yeah, I wish that genre films didnt depend on the average person to make them profitable, but they outnumber us, such is the plight of us fanboys, movies have to appeal to the lowest common denominator, frankly, I'm surprised movies these days arent worse than they are sometimes.
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Good points, I admit, though you paint a fairly bleak picture :(
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Yeah, I guess the best thing would be to have the promoters of the movies be able to budget more for the quality films and less for the crap to get the word out the way it should in a perfect world, any aspiring film promoters on the talkbacks this is your call to arms :)
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I wish I knew, I'm new to posting here myself. Fortunately my ideas are fairly short and simple lol but so am I. Um figuratively I mean. Damn you Michael Bay!
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"The way I see it, supporting comic book movies means helping ensure more get made."
Are we better off because Daredevil got made? Catwoman? Elektra? Hulk? FF? Judge Dredd?
I say "no". Do I get to move up in the nerd mafia ranks because I own every dvd (video format) of every comic based movie and ticket stubs from each opening night? Do I do the genre justice by continuing to line these hollywood yutz's pockets as they tell me what is wrong with something that has been around for 20 years. That they know how to tell a story and how to make it available for all audiences. They can fix it, and I will/must like it. Because I cannot criticize if I have not seen it. BS. How about the millionaires/billionaire pay me $10. to see it. They (Hollywood) will continue to make comic book movies and crappy ones at that because people continue to go see them for fear their might not be anymore. That is a total crock. Screw them and their reinterpreted trite shallow cliche ridden mindless vacuous hole know as "style" over substance. and one more thing. Steven Speildberg is a has been (the skies part and lightning strikes) and Indy 4 sounds ridiculous. Indy 3 sucked for numerous reasons, and I know because I saw it multiple times. There is no reformer like an old sinner.
The emporer has no clothes!!! -
I'm not saying i disagree with you, or that us real comicbook fans will ever have the power that the average moviegoer does to make comic book films stay profitable and keep getting made, but I stand by my position that as long as there is enough support to get comic book films made, we are better off than having them not made at all, just for the good ones I mentioned before. No support=no comic book movies made. Period. Whether that's a better alternative for some of you is up to you.
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I agree, and I hear you.
Some good has come from the the gluttony of awful films. The Batman and Superman animated series alone made up for a good bit.
The point I meant to make and didn't was that the genre of comic books is here to stay. It has already proven to be viable and profitable. It is what is hot now and the cycle will move on, just as it did with westerns. They will use it up until there is no more left and move on. I just hope the ratio of good films to bad flips. It seemed like it would with the first Matrix movie (essentially Superman) and the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but then the Matrix sequels came out and things went downhill again. Things won't change if we don't make them. Send them a message the only way they understand- box office. This Transposeurs movie is not going to be good, so I am not going to see it. However, Iron Man is proving interesting, so I might go see that. I will go see Hellboy 2 when it comes out, but I am not going to give a blank check for anything in the genre. Just my opinion. -
Oh I agree, I believe that we get anything good out of the mediocrity that most of the genre movies end up to be is a miracle in itself, and you should definitely vote with your wallet only for the films that are worth your money. I'm just too amazed we live in a time we have this much choice to be as discriminating as i should be i guess lol
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Proof of what you speak. See the hilarity that ensues as Bumblebee mimes shush and waves off the other Autobots to be quiet and the delightful and next Tom Hanks Shite LApouf delivers his inspired speech to convince his father to not come outside. Sheer brilliance-comedic genius. Prime steps on a bird fountain. GUFAW! ...and then he says" My Bad" Giggle Snort Be still my heart- oh my my eyes are tearing up M. Bay explained that the animation was really expensive so they had to have more human time in it. Which begs the question of why do it live action then. (of course he couldn't have stroked off the armed forces, again) Have you seen the WALL-E trailer for the next Pixar flick? Sad they did not go animated for this all the way. Gues they are still scared of what happened with FInal Fantasy, but some studio genius could have just put some penguins in it. You said up above that you blamed Hasbro for not protecting their Intellectual Property better. amen brother. I saw that new line in the stores and it blows. I happened upon an online survey for them (Hasbro) and let them have it regarding the direction they have taken with the property. Just words, but I figured it will represent the opinions of better than 1% of their consumers.
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Don't feel bad. There's always next year. The Dark Knight can't get here soon enough!
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but I think the new line of Transformer toys, that don't even TRANSFORM, is a bad omen for this movie.
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Thats as wrong as wrong can be!
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Harry Potter comes out a week after Transformers. So, I guarantee that TINO is only #1 for a week. Suck on that Michael Bay!
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This explains the international word tour before coming to the states. They figure the money to be made is international. They want to hype up the rest of the world as insurance if they face a backlash (poor reviews) here. It will make money because it is something different but it won't make what it could have. The real story is how their will be a banner ad on this site again and no bad reviews because no of them no anything about the backstory and are mezmerized by Big Gay Gobots Skating that go boom. Mori may be the standout, but Harry has lost all credibility. (Quint too- form his first stories about seeing the original designs- he didn't even know what color optimus was) He got too close to the source, he gets so much free swag and brags about it. He's not believable. He should go back to his roots and say what needs to be said. He is without a doubt exceedingly knowlegable and knows the material. He should take a stand and let hollywood know that they should shape up and stop criticing a movie but then buying the dvd and recommending it when it comes out.(Ghost Rider)
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Huh, maybe I was looking at the ones that don't. The one I saw had Optimus, flames and all, locked in robot position with a little cannon on his arm that light up and made a generic noise when you pushed a button. It really sucked.
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which is probably why they sucked.
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Fuck Bay, his plant reviewers, and all his studio plants on this TB. I'm out!
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I find it hysterical that you have to justify having positive opinions of this movie by referring to them as "plants", because you obviously have no other way to legitimize yourself or your position on this movie.
It's like if you went into a Lost thread, you'd immediately be thrown to the wolves for your plant-like name.
Note to all, your sheer hatred of this movie is going to be the same reason it succeeds -- you have brought attention to it, and you will go and see it on the oft chance that it will disappoint. Oddly enough, you paid for that ticket. -
I'm asking because I can't tell, having never liked any of them. And I guess I'm asking people who saw Bad Boys 1 back when it first came out and not as one of the crying infants that demented parents took with them to the theater. Do Bay's flicks age well for his fans or do they just pass out of mind like whatever your second or third period class was in all 4 years of High School?
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...is that people are accepting amazing special effects and visuals as a substitute for story and genuine excitement. You have to be able to tell the difference between genre classics like Matrix or Pan's Labyrinth and the also-rans. People are writing that Transformers is amazing, made them feel 10 years old etc - but on closer examination they say 'of course there's no story, but that's not what this is about'. Well i beg to fucking differ. In a summer blockbuster, it's ALL about a story that takes you on an exciting emotional rollercoaster. Isn't that what we all care about? Isn't that why we're all here? Isn't AINTITCOOL about NOT swallowing any old shit the studios serve up for us?
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looks fuckin tite hopefully this movie is great
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The Rock- Sean Connery in the shower singing with that awful pony tail and then he supposedly throws that guy over the edge tethered to his hand. (gay stereotype for hair stylist in shock and awe)
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http://tinyurl.com/37veha
Sources say "no". -
it's VISUAL fx not SPECIAL fx damnit!!
when are people gonna learn the difference! -
My favorite one is Jon Voight trying to stand up in Pearl Harbor. You rule, Michael Bay! I want Aerosmith to be in EVERY MOVIE YOU MAKE!!
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the movie is going to stir up some serious shit and green. People that are complaining about the film before they even see it are complete dipwads and lack any credibility. It is a known popcorn flick. Get used to it.
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to pay $10 for a popcorn flick?
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...I rented. One was good, the other was all over the place and tried to cobble together to many other ideas and got lost in itself. Now the question is which one is which.
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You think its OK to take a classic and then say "oh well, it's not shakespeare!" And then turn it into a joke? Make the main characters watered down backdrops? Belittle the hero and enemy forces by having the US Military take down the threat in exchange for military vehicle rentals? Turn the lead character (Bumblebee) Into a Camaro because ou signed a deal with GM and you didn't want the Volkswagen to come off as too similar to Herbie the Love Bug all because ou turned Bumblebee into a mute like Herbie the love bug forno fucking reason? You guys suck seriously. Bay lost. Again. And I was rooting for him.
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Alec Baldwin as Jimmy Doolittle. Bar none his worst performance. That accent....make it stop.
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For letting Bay do this. Turn Transformers into a fucking "popcorn flick". You BOTH missed the mark.
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this decade
crickets chirping
last decade
crickets chirping
around 1981?
resting on laurels
spieldberg brand not so great for the genre
spieldberg exec producer = BFD
I mean that gymnast scene in JPII- good lord that was bad. so very very bad
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if it is going to blow in that sense- it only stands to reason...
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my point. he can't go back home. That new Indy, I can't believe anyone would want to see that in any way shape or form. Still time to cast the delightful Dakota Fanning?I mean her and Shite together- the screen will just explode. Epic.
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Dude you're so right. It's no different than Lucas making Star Wars films that are parodies of Star Wars films. Indy 4 = Episode 1
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10 minutes of Die Hard 4 to watch on www.movieweb.com
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what does that mean? There are only a few and the rest are just apathetic, mediocre or silly maybe? It's funny how "serious" is attached like that. the qualifier. If you are good - you are "serious". And what makes you move up to the serious ranking? An academy award? Is Kevin Costner serious? 8^) Kinda like "rocker" Tommy Lee. That guy is never called Tommy Lee, he is always qualified as Rocker Tommy Lee. Robert Plant is just Robert Plant. cracks me up.
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Re: jingoistic fascist crap (and kids are FORCED to take the oath of allegiance? Does that still happen and isn't it ANTI-American in its basic nature?) in Bay movies, or U.S. flicks in general. Also, I was unpopular (as usual) from the start for not towing the "Oldboy is genius" line. If anyone here is a father they'd know what I'm saying. I mean, suspension of disbelief is fine but fuck me talk about stretching it!
Also, what is with American cinema chains being so stupid that you can do the switcheroo thing? Other places just have the number of the cinema in the multiplex printed next to the title of the film on the ticket. No need for a sign at the door and they get accurate stats. Easy. I'm not saying I'm against you sticking it to the man if you want to make a point, just wondering how they got themselves into the situation where you can do that when it didn't need to happen in the first place?! Weird. -
"1178Hunterbosser- yeah, that's it...the place I live"
just curious what the qualification is for "serious" in serious filmaker. Can you be serious without winning a major industry award.
we know the qualifications for a "hack".
example: Michael Bay (any film) who looks like that guy from "30 something" crossed with Ichabod Crane, and he's a hack to boot. -
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005022/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000881/ -
Any living you can think of- beyond what you have already mentioned?
So "serious" would be anyone who has contributed to the betterment of (for lack of a better word) or advancement of film. - caused it to progress- as it were. What do you think about QT? -
Some of you see some early version of a script and a few reviews which obviously are justified in negativity or immediately sent to the local botanist for testing. Add to it that you all saw some secret version of a script because, of course, you are all insiders AND Literature/English/Media triple majors with a Masters in Advanced Cinematic and Directorial Studies
with friends in high places.
The more impressive the footage, the louder you scream and the closer you huddle in your circle J. WITHOUT HAVING SEEN A MOVIE THAT IS BEING OVERSEEN BY STEVEN F-ING SPIELBERG.
A simple story with lots of action can make for a great movie. Assumptions, ok. But uninformed bias makes me laugh. I'll give my verdict AFTER I've seen it.
Like with Spiderman 3. Which was the worst of the 3 films. -
Gees, what have we humble Kiwis done to have this open 1 week before the US of A?
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EYES OPEN AND PERCEPTION UNALTERED!!! LoL...I could be GurzEonesque and just DRONE ON AND ON without having seen the movie.
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"I didn't even mind him using the getting-old-very-quickly theme that accompanied Lucy Liu's posse walk in Kill Bill as Bumble Bee changes his exterior" ----- Well, given that that theme is an adaptation of "Flight of the BUMBLEBEE" it is sort of appropriate.
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The early version of the script has been confirmed to be pretty much exactly the same as the final cut by fans that have now see the film and read the script.
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I'm sitting here reading these talkbacks and I just realized that this is history right here. We're debating this movie to the point where it's already a classic. Enjoy my friends, these will be lengendary talkbacks.
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First off, was it a toyline that was then turned into a cartoon and serve as a vehicle for selling toys? Undisputedly, yes.
Was it a good show? Undisputedly , yes. Except for season 3 which had a few standout shows, but the whole Rodimus era was the beginning of the end.
I keep hearing this cast off of the 80's cartoon and I don't know if some of you are old enough to understand the cartoon in the perspective of cartoons at the time.
Cartoons back then were not that good and there were not many options. Particularly after school. Then this concept came along of robots turning into vehicles. It was pretty ingenious because the toys looked good and the characters on the show looked better. The toys were little puzzles. (Remember the Rubik's cube had been all the craze nary a couple of years before.) They had great voice effects too. They lived on a robotic planet. Not to mention it was the first cartoon to use some of the Star Wars sound library. Everything else back used the Buck Rogers and BSG sound library.
What we had seen was Superfriends or Thundar the Barbarian type stuff.
Anyways, this show came along and changed the rules.
The good guys lost sometimes, they got their asses handed to them. They were outgunned and outmanned but still fought on. The characters looked great with greco/roman/egyptian masks.-faceplates and a single light for a face. They had weapons out the yin yang and could blow each other up. Arm cannons- Autobots using the Decepticons weapons against them- you see, violence was not accepted much on daytime TV back then- watch GI Joe and see the ejections from planes everytime they are hit. It had onscreen violence, the voices were cool and modulated- some had more than one form (triple changers) others were teams and merged to make a bigger bot. They were salvaging/plundering Earth for its natural resources to power their own planet. That was the storyline.
The animation was good. (comparatively for the time) This was all new to us back then. This concept of damage to a robot was accepted that could not be done to a human. That was revolutionary
It had characters out the wazoo and the villians didn't get along so there were power struggles in the ranks of both sides
Then when the movie came out in 86 we learned that the Autobots lost and got stuck on Earth and relegated to a moonbase of Cybertron. I mean to start out that the good guys got beat and continue to take a beating until the bitter end.That was unique-that was ballsy storytelling.
So take your macguffin hunting boy and his first car wet dream grandfather glasses searching big gun military promo bang bang guns go boom boom rollerskating eyeball having busy designed vitals exposed no covering robots in the desert 85% humans 15% bots Transformers In Name Only schlock fest and choke on your popcorn Michael Bay film.
Cartoon sucked- your ass hurts -
"I liked how even some of the Autobots wonder why they can't just do away with the pesky humans but Optimus insists that have as much a right to live as they do." I'm reminded of Steve Carrell's character in Anchorman during the news team battle royale. "Brick, get back over here."
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I still have a Beast Wars rant yet to give. 9^)
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actually bad scripts. They punched up the dialogue, that is not equal to the plot, story and overall characterization. Star Wars and The Matrix were not bad scripts. They make TF look like Shakespeare, in fact. Also, Pawprint, who cares what you think about me personally, you still can't argue your way out of a paper bag and are dishonest.
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... if you can't go to a movie and enjoy it for what it is, then you don't belong in a theater. Or for that matter, out in public.
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actual point?
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The verb to pwn (past tense: pwned, pwnd, pwn'd, pwnt, pooned) as used by the Internet gaming subculture, means to beat or dominate an opponent. While it probably originated as a typing error of the word own, it is now used intentionally by many members of the subculture. The term has become so ubiquitous in Internet circles that it is often used outside of gaming contexts; for example, "He just got pwned in that debate" or "The hunters pwned that bear."
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Wonder why. What do you care if we like it or not based on a certain set of reasons? People these days act like if you don't agree with them you are trying to somehow oppress them. Thanks Political Correctness!
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Random teen to be killed by Jason while having sex.
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I didn't write it. It is a rather silly reference though. "The hunters pwned that bear." How much do you think they got for it? $50? ah yes, a witty pun
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Phrase origination: 'That's Gay'.
'Teh Ghey', is an Internet slang-based phrase, used to express dislike for something, someplace, or something.
'Teh Ghey' has nothing to do with homosexuals/gay people, although some people seem to think so. -
If people go back and watch it some of the episodes have great stories and the things going on with the characters are pretty neat. The funny thing is, no one has ever said the movie has to be just like the cartoon, I just think it's sad when the live action movie is taking a step backwards from the cartoon. The cartoon laid a great foundation for a property that has wonderful potential to be the next Star Wars or Harry Potter, not some forgettable summer action fluff.
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/
Looks like the term "decidership" could be applicable:
Teh Transposeurs A Micheal Bay Decidership Phlegm -
Holy crap! Meanwhile, HOSTEL 2 scratched-out only chicken feed (less than $3 million) during its second week. Look for Eli Roth at a town near you (flipping burgers).
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working up through the 80s had a really good handle on archetypes and mythology. It's missing in most of today's cartoons and comic books.
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They had a good grip when they wrote for Beast Wars too. They tied the lines together, and did not reveal it until the end.I think Bay's crew studied and took more inspiration from Beast Wars details (not storywise) more than the G1 mythology. Comics today do seem a bit lackluster.Even DK Returns a few years ago by Miller wasn't that good. Perhaps it was MacFarlane himself who introduced the whole style over substance era into the comics back in the early 90's which lead to the publishers greed and overprinting that almost killed the industry.Beast Wars was good though. Worth a rent- it really gets going towards the end of season 1 and all of Season 2 . Season 3 has some high points but not as good as the others.
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When the initial FANTASTIC FOUR opened, action figures of Sue Storm were produced in limited edition. As a result of the shortage, variable figures of Storm sold for $50-$70 from private dealers. Storm figures were subsequently manufactured but long after the debut of the film (their value is zip compared to the original limited editions). Did the toy manufacturers learn their lesson? Nop. Absolutely NO figures of Sue Storm were developed as tie-ins to the SILVER SURFER sequel. TRANSFORMERS toys will be brisk sellers but--gauging the heavy volume--they'll never qualify as collector's items. Wonder of they'll premiere a Megan Fox figure? (female characters are always underestimated). This has been a moment of reflection from the Greek Patrol. And now back to our regular programming...
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I am not playing politics- this is just the definition from Urban Dictionary.
A form of government with one person exercising absolute power and unrestricted control in a government who regularly disregards opinions, petitions or mandates of the people or elected representatives.
The misguided War On Terrorism has turned the United States of America from a Democracy to a Decidership. -
http://tinyurl.com/k4gk
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I wasn't a fan of the animation style, and the few episodes I did watch I knew you'd have to watch more to really care about the characters. I really stopped liking comics in the 90s but kept reading them because I loved the characters so much (Marvel) and then discovered DC and dropped Marvel almost entirely. Then DC went the way of Marvel, unfortunately, and I stopped reading alltogether. I still feel Moore and Miller really brought about most of this when they started deconstructing heroes and that became more popular than supporting the traditional archetypes. Deconstruction is just a lesser version of the original idea and always will be. It's good for a story to look at heroes in a Post Modern way but not as an overarching idea, and yet that is what it became.
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make a point.
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It's a little too "nanny nanny boo boo" for my tastes. Surely there should be some kind of reasonable defense for this movie? I would even take I want to see it because of the action sequences, I don't care if the story sucks or I would see anything with Meghan Fox in it. At least that's honest.
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Beast Machines Sucked because they made Cybertron a planet that was not entirely made of metals. They turned it into a freaking grassy paradise. SO LAME. Guess what. This movie also makes Cybertron just like any other planet. There is no cooler design EVER than the one of Cybertron in the cartoon. But Bay undoubtedly ditched it.
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I'm not sure how accurate is. At one point in the script it was destroyed and the TF were looking for the Cosmic Cube as the last survivors of their race. Which is great for sequel potential you know. Hahah.
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it took a little while to get used to because the animals just looked kinda weird and talking animals was different too. After a couple of eps you get past it. the payoff in the end is worth it. The writing was solid though, and you are correct- they did have a story arc that built on each episode. When it got really cool was when they were turned into Transmetals at the beginning of Season 2. Then they looked like bots all the time in beast mode too. A good site to visit to read through the eps and get the story is: http://www.bwtf.comYou classified the "deconstruction" era extremely well. I mean nailed it. I could not have put that into words as well as you did- and you are exactly right. This is what happens when the avant garde is assimilated and becomes the new norm.
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the main characters would be an incredible financial undertaking to render them. But what I see a lot in movies these days is spend money to show, show, show when you could simply suggest a lot, and what you have is a lot of obvious CGI that doesn't connect with the audience.
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That show was a bit out there for my tastes. Interesting designs, and I never would have imagined they could have translated into toys as well as they did, but they did a damn good job on the property. Great theme music "Phat Planet". Story not so good.
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That show was a bit out there for my tastes. Interesting designs, and I never would have imagined they could have translated into toys as well as they did, but they did a damn good job on the property. Great theme music "Phat Planet". Story not so good.
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to see season 1? If so maybe I will check it out on Netflix.
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FYI: superninja is a Ms. - not a Mr.
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Filmation recently and its extremely faithful to the strip comics. I actually liked Filmation's style, kind of Bashki-esque. You can see how He-Man came out of it. But the character designs were pretty cool and Ming's daughter looks like an early version of Teela although with less clothing. Some of the voice work ain't so hot though, Oppenheimer does Ming and he sounds just like Skeletor.
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especially when they have useless pistons and 300 gizmos moving for no apparent reason other than to be there. It's like Geoff Darrow and HR Giger designed them. (no offense to Darrow or Giger because I love their work- just not on Transformers) They could have looked really good in the simple forms. Probably should have been all animated like Final Fantasy.
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Yeah you can skip to season 2, it has a brief recap. I won't spoil it, but youy do need to know that the Predacons (decendants of the Decepticons) have a traitor who switched sides to the Maximals (Autobot decendants)and his name is Dinobot. There are also some encounters with an alien race in season one and the protoform concept is explained. You should read about season 1 at least before jumping directly to season 2. Starscream (or his ghost spark more correctly) makes an appearance in season 1.
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fan favorite eps that is all you need. Star Child? Eeek. Flash Gordon is more mature than He-Man, not by a lot, just no cute sidekicks for the most part. You can rent it on Netflix to see if you like it. It has a complete story arc which is nice, but Flash Gordon itself is pretty repetitive. Flash goes to kingdom X, usually ruled by a hot queen or princess, who proceeds to flirt with him and make Dale jealous. Then he helps them out and they either hook up with their general (who have really loved them all this time) or pine for Flash and agree to help him overthrow Ming. Rinse and repeat. The animation for the ships are pretty cool, though. And in true Filmation style they use a lot of repeating cells.
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a better route. How about Sky Captain style? Or was that film also enormously expensive? I would like to see Japanese anime Big O done like Sky Captain, that is a great story (at least Season 1 anyway).
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They just don't have TF OCD like me.
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the "plots" in recent films especially the big ones of the year so far really shows how dumb the culture has gotten. B-movies..nah, that's giving them to much credit. F-movies are all they are. I'm hoping Cameron can kick all this bullshit in the ass with Avatar.
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didn't buy it. Pretty fun stuff. Flash seems less egregious that MATU and TAS in terms of cell repeats but it's still there. It has a guy with a head like a lion so that makes it aces in my book!
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I really soured on the POTC franchise after 3.
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Anyway...
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Megatron (just has the same name- but not related) has a crew of Predacons have stolen two golden discs that were guarded artifacts on the Maximal controlled planet of Cybertron. He takes his crew and heads off to a long rumored planet that is rich with energon. There is a Maximal ship close enough to engage them but it is a scientific vessel and the crew are not trained warriors. Anyway they engage iver a planet and both go crashing into it. (sound familiar?) Anyways there is a power struggle amoung the Preds and Dinobot takes off. Optimus Primal (not related to Prime- and has the inspiration for TINO's Prime with the lips/mouthguard battle mode) is the leader of the Maximals. Anyways they are stuck and have to figure out what Megatron is up to. Long story short- they decide to stay and fight. so, they have to find out- where they are (hint: when they are) and what Megatron's plan is. Much like the original Autobots the Maximal get beat fairly often as they should and over time they become more battle-hardened.
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this, but we are from the future, and you are actually OUR CHILD! I'm sorry, son. Our future selves should have listed to you!
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If they're that sophisticated, why don't they disguise themselves as humans? I always liked the idea that it's like getting plastic surgery, it changes the outside (since they can already transform back home) allowing them for a disguise that provides the most readily available adaptability. Plus they won't have to interact with anyone because they are considered inanimate objects.
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My understanding is that they are on prehistoric Earth, and involved time travel or something, it never seemed too clear.
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adaptation of Mark Schultz's Xenozoic Tales starring Hugh Jackman as Jack Tenrec and Rachel Weisz as Hannah Dundee.
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The crew of the Maximas ship was the most part in stasis pods except for a skeleton crew. When they had to crash they jettisoned the pods in to the atmosphere if the planet before entry. When the pods crahed to earth the forms were just like the T1000 until a computer scanned the area for a lifeform to replicate. This also happened to the crew when they were shutdown after the crash as well. When they sustained damage they had to fgo to the "CR" chamber (don't know what CR stands for) for repairs. The Beast mode forms they attained protected them from the energon radiation that was in a raw form and would fry their circuitry if overexposed. Normally they (TF's) don't go about with their bits and pieces all exposed. Makes no damn sense- you are a robot sand and dirt and crap aren't good and you have to protect your vitals. Which is why they had box like designs that the TIMO Lemmings bitch about. Because form follows function, right.
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At least, that's what I am going with. What was Lucas thinking? You have to make someone actually likeable and heroic if you want their fall from grace to have any impact.
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which is Cadillacs and Dinosaurs is still pretty good, but Tales is much better and the art is just superb. It's basically an anti-technology piece, so maybe BSB could get Al Gore to fun the live-action movie?
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http://tinyurl.com/3brt75
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Could we have a new Stooge in our midst? Grammer seems to be a big thing over there in Sycophantland.
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...and they end up having to protect the ark.
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I know what would happend, But I was thinking please put the poor bastard out of his misery. At that point Obi was being a little sadistic by letting him live.
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kind of a role reversal with the female being the tough, politically-minded character who embraces technology and the male lead being the one who wants to bring nature and technology into harmony without coming across as wimpy. It's post-apocalyptic, Yack, you will probably like it a lot.
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Tell me about Harry and Ghost World. You totally called that about two weeks before the announcement.
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Damn that Philadelphia public school system. I have a new theory About Mighty Murphy's Stooges ther all studying to be english teachers. I havn't figured the tie in with Ole Donny Million,chins but I'm working it out.
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I know you know. It was fascinating. Tell me more inside scoop.
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And you do not want to see that in a halter top :) j/k
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you-know-what, but that's what makes her interesting. Jack is also kind of a jerk, so it's kind of honest about both characters faults, and forces them to make ideaologically compromises or change some of their preconceptions, but that is what makes them well-rounded characters.
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Come to avenge his "*Pwnership" yesterday.
* I don't know if Pwnership is a word I usually abhor Internet 21st century geek speak but seeing as how we are in the graces of a Master of both Internet speak and the English language I figured it was an appropriate attempt. -
collected them, though, so they are not hard to find.
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amen.
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Would you be so kind as to indulge me with your enlightening tale of the demise of Harry Knowles former project "Ghost Town"?
Kind Regards,
1178HB -
All the world's pwnage,
And all the men and women merely pwned.
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time pwns many pwned,
His acts being seven pwnages.
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culture.
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It's 11:20 pm here and the midnight sun and is finally starting to get dark. Good night all. until next time.
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closely followed by the next dose of Die Hard damage.
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I actually have met people who say it phonetically "p-own-d", and I can't help but wonder if it's me being oblivious to what's supposedly hip, or maybe misanthropy isn't a bad thing.
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If Lee's HULK was crappy and disrespectable to the source material while TF is faithful and awesome, then please, please, please -- give me the disrespectful crap!!
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"I'll be amazed if it doesn't win best special f/x at the next Oscars."Translation: I'll be amazed if the effect I didn't see doesn't win an Oscar for effects. Pardon, but what exactly was the criteria for such judgment?
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but no i wouldn't say i was that excited about it. The buzz been extremely low considering how big the franchise is.
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Jun 17, 2007 4:46:31 PM CDT
"its hard to distinguish whos who and what's happening"
by immortal_fish
"The final battle sequence in the city streets is cool but some of the action here (and in other scenes) is so fast that it's hard to distinguish who is who, who is good, who is bad and what's happening. I think that's why I missed Megatron's arm cannon."Again..."its hard to distinguish[...]what's happening"And, yet, the effects look great? How can you tell if you admittedly cannot see what is going on?
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had become cool again I thought people had started misspelling pawn.
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What about the engrossing, rich tapestry of the comic series?
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Yes, because his role in Anger Management was some truly deep shit for your ass. A completely tortured soul. It must have been a stretch for him to find his "ouch place" to perfect the portrayal of such a complex character!
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Guys like:Jar Jar 4 PrezVog From Dimension Xby byOscar Wilde 4 Prezand at least four other names that got B@NN3D.Funny thing is, they were all the same person.Right, Tegujai Batir?
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100 points to the 1dt one who can tell me where that inappropriate line came from in a classic movie.
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You really should learn to spell. It would help on places like the INTERNETS. Anyways, my point was that movies are meant to be ENTERTAINMENT not ZOMG THIS MUST BE PERFECT OR THE WORLD IS OVER!!!! If you can't be entertained by a movie then what's the point in going?
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Grammar attack #357.
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well arnie used it in T2...only movie i can think..am i right? if so, what do i win? lol
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I hadn't been counting Grammar attacks. :)
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What's the point of making it?
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I could have looked beyond the bionicle structure, the flames, the Bay, the auto-based Decepticon, "SoundByte (or whatever), and the TnA had there been more respect to the source material along with a decent story. But the absence of these with the presence of Turturro, Anderson, Joe Don Baker, Mac, and Leia LeBoussh made it all too much for little Megan Fox to counter.The anti-haters need to understand that most of us pessimists wouldn't be if it weren't for such grandiose diversions. And they need to become more adept at spotting true haters.
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To make money.
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Oh trust me, I know what you mean about cheesy movies. But having been a transformers fan for quite awhlie now and having followed the movie info from its conception, I guess I feel that we should be pleased that a movie is being made at all. I for one have looked forward to it regardless of how it comes out just for curiosity sake. Next I'm hoping for a Robotech/Macross movie.
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i think you're right about that. Still i expected a bit more, especially with the last book coming this way very soon too. Transformers is the most original offering (i know thats not saying much) this season, hence the hype it's getting.
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I'm not trying to tell you anything or bash any of your personal feelings about movies in general. I'm just trying to be as optimistic as I can regardless of how many holes the plot will have as I'm sure there will be a few. I'm not saying by any means that this will be an awesome movie that will be classic cinema. I'm simply stating that it should be seen as what it is... an action-packed summer blockbuster that many fans and non-fans will enjoy, at least for awhile.
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Just got home and muddled my way through this TB. So glad to see another Cadillacs & Dinosaurs fan in the midst. Did you ever have any interest in Schultz's Aliens mini-series? http://tinyurl.com/34dakx A good read. Oh, and my wife would like to add that you are "a witty bitch." Take that as a compliment. She likes you. And Thundercats.
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man there getting tricky. here a profile of a stooge. Stooges are a funny sort when ever you try to make a point they either switch topic or correct your spelling Now AINTITSHOT was the preverbial alpha stooge and serves as our Stooge template. Now if our stooge here follows classic stooge behavior next he insult people who actually support this movie.
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Honestly, the only thing I can think of that would be an improvement, at lease for me personally, would be the robots having more speaking roles and there to be a larger assortment of Autobots and Decepticons. However for a first movie, I can understand why they chose only a few for each side. I just hope that in the sequels they will branch out.
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I hear you. Exhibit A: Van Helsing.I part ways with you on FF1, though, as I enjoyed it (haven't seen the sequel). Sure, they truly eviscerated Doom's origin, but everything else was spot-on. Sure, effects and cast could have been better, but the characterization was perfect IMO. As for the story, it was sheer origin exposition and nothing else, which to me is always a formula for the crappy. But at least the Four were faithfully represented.And about Doom -- since I recognize your handle and you may be familiar with the source material -- what other rendition of the character was any good at all? All we really have to point at are the various animated series. I haven't seen them all, but I recently watched episodes of the animated series of both Hulk and Spider-Man from the 90s featuring the Doom character and must say that there is nothing McMahon is doing wrong considering the voice he's been given in these other adaptations. Methinks many fanboys cannot come to grips with how he reads vs. how it sounds once spoken.
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I dont know much and before i go to wiki I wanted a Talkback answer the Trailer looked kind of Hamfisted and not interesting in the least.
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Potter's built in fan base knows whats coming however, the films having been slightly erractic at the box office. Having said that the current trailer showing in theatres is a doozy.
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I see your point and understand. However I guess I hold too much hope and excitement for the movie that at this point, I can't hold that point of view. I've supported the making of it this far and can't simply ignore it's existence. Agreed it's not the Transformers of the 80's or anything afterwards for that matter, but it is another story in the Transformers universe with different incarnations. Again, mere curiosity and inkling to see an action-packed movie of something I know a bit about will draw me to the theater.
Oh, and you're all welcome to just call me MgWach. :) -
I always saw Dr. Doom as a Machiavelli type. In a way he could be a good leader, but his belief in the ends justifying the means makes him a "bad" guy.
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i don't think the necessarily have the box office in the bag without selling it as a stand alone film to mr Joe Average.
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Jun 17, 2007 5:28:17 PM CDT
RE "we should be happy they are making it" debate point
by immortal_fish
Really? Why? This is not the Transformers they are making. Sure, there are robots that transform in this movie. And yet, there have been other movies with robots that transform. We do not call those movies 'Transformers' movies, however.A recognizable voice-actor and familiar color scheme of two set pieces a faithful Transformers adaption does not make.I suspect that there should be more characterization of the Transformers in this Transformers movie, given that's what it will be known as.
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Oh, how you do make me laugh. Good one, Tegujai Batir. I gotta hand it to you, you do have a way with denial.Here is a bit of advice (whatever your name is today), if you keep getting banned while supposedly "pwning" people...then you're not "pwning" anybody. Or anything. You can't just claim it. You've got to show your work and live to talk about it. I know that concept is really hard for you to accept (it always has been). But the truth is something that you've never displayed the capacity to understand.Oh, and thanks for confirming my assumption in my previous post. Gotcha. You pile your bullshit up so high, I can see it from miles away.Now you've reduced yourself to making fun of people's spelling?! And you're calling that "pwnage"??? My goodness...have you really fallen that far off your game?!WOW.
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I agree that my statement of "we should be happy they are making it" really doesn't hold water. But for me, simply seeing things brough back from my childhood or at least their ideas is very pleasing. If that makes any sense. And thank you M.O.M. for the compliment.
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I agree that my statement of "we should be happy they are making it" really doesn't hold water. But for me, simply seeing things brought back from my childhood or at least their ideas is very pleasing. If that makes any sense. And thank you M.O.M. for the compliment.
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Again, where else was Doom properly translated? The cartoons are what I'm pointing at, but feel free to bring up others or other cartoons than the ones mentioned.I'm aware of the Doom being Vader's boilerplate deal. And I already admitted to Doom's origin having been screwed in FF1. And yet, the template was there for movie Doom to be comic Doom in the sequel, which I haven't seen yet. Willing to eat crow if not.And that brings me back to the question again... Where has Doom been properly represented other than comics? I recoil to the Hulk 96 animated series where he's captured Jen and telling Hulk how he's going to blow her up with a bomb linked to his wrist. "Push push, bang bang." Or, worse yet, "Me, a terrorist? This is simply a neighborly decision to pool resources!" Or some such. All of it spoken like the narrator of Python's Holy Grail.If McMahon's delivery truly is awful, then what other adaptation was better? I'm not targeting only you here. If others can suggest otherwise, please speak up. Just don't mention the FF cartoon of the 60s. Galactus is better off being a cloud than being represented like that.
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Did you enjoy the Masters of the Universe movie from once upon a time? I admit that at the time, I did. But it got me wondering. Made me think about the Hulk TV series among others. Made me realize that the adaptations I was seeing were not faithfully adapted.Oh, sure, some things must change due to difference in medium. I get that. I get organic webshooters.And yet, sometimes things need not be rethought, but simply retweaked. Take the webshooters. Okay, so he's not such a genius that he could invent a cash cow for 3M. However, he could rework the guts of a Bic lighter to make a gadget that directs and controls the flow of useless spooge emanating from his wrists into a stream of webbing utility. See what I mean?But back to Masters, what did you think? Then and now.
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suggest a much more positive trend than some of the "hallowed cannon" here in these AICN halls.
But go ahead and call it SH!T before you see it because it is not the exact director you wanted, it isn't boxobots, and you read 3 reviews. That's your perogative.
I'll just have to face the music that I will never be as cool as the "Hater Posse" and their Slingblade Drivel because I refuse to condemn a movie before I see it. -
I admit that. Ask me a third time and I'll tell you the same!No, I'm not saying that we should accept the least offensive adaptation of Doom. What I'm wondering is if this is just one of those characters that simply doesn't translate well.Let's admit, template aside, Vader on film was nowhere near as talky as Doom is in the books. And if you make Doom as talky in a movie as he is in the books, well, then, you know...?Vader isn't Doom. Doom isn't Vader. One beget the other, but they are each their own.Open up any comic with Doom and recite his speech bubbles in front of the bathroom mirror. Then try to laugh at yourself before the rest of your onlooking family does. Honestly, it's not Shakespeare. And the stuff from the 60s was worse than the stuff from the 90s.Bottom line -- What was the first thing Doom did when he trashed the Beyonder? He fixed his face! And yet, still we wonder why movie Doom is played as a metrosexual?!
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was in the cartoon "Spiderman and his amazing friends" where he went after an amulet of power that was broken into individual parts...sad.
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Have your lawyer contact mine come the morning!
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I said I would see it first before rendering a verdict, thus forgoeing any ego-driven, compensatory prognostications that might in the off chance give me an artfull way of saying "HA!! TOLD YOU SO. IN YOUR FACE! I WAS RIGHT! NEENER, NEENER, NEENER."
From what I have seen, the special effects look borderline revolutionary, and I am a fan of SFX. I withhold comment on how it stands up as a movie. -
Did you just read YackBacker's post? Yeah, way step right in it with complete ignorance. Self-pwn much?Well, is that all you got? Wannabe-clever wordplay, baseless assumptions, and false claims of "PWNAGE" in the "NOW"? (WTF?)Please tell me you've actually got something interesting to say because my face hurts from laughing at your sorry ass.
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Like Hillary said, now that's what I'm talkin'bout. Will have to look up that early 80s gem to refresh my memory as I don't have it on hand.
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last time the general consensus on a leaked script was positive here at AICN?
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Palpatine + Anakin + Kaizer Soze is you want to get an accurate translation.
Subtle, megalomaniacal, ruthless, powerful, a schemer/mastermind, with mucho hubris. -
it is possible to change even more than they have and still have a brilliant film.As I always say Batman & Robin would have still been crap without the nipples and Batman Begins would have still been brilliant if they had added nipples.
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Is the fact that no movie adaption of a popular franchise meets approval from 100% of the fans of the original material. Given that blatantly obvious fact, what exactly do people really expect?To be honest, I think the better part of the people crying bloody murder over this adaption wouldn't have been happy with anything other than the live version that's been playing in their head since they were six years old.....and no Yack, that wasn't aimed at you.If anyone can point me in the direction of a movie title that's an adaption of a comic or a book that meets with full approval from the fan club I'd love to know it.
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I don't think that Doom can never be faithfully adapted, only that I think everyone else that has tried has made the same mistakes as Story. This was what I was digging toward all along. I'm sure it can be done, but the role must be UNDERPLAYED in order to resonate.Who was in charge in ANH? Tarkin. "Vader, release him." Who was in charge in ESB? The whole kneeling bit obviated that. Nothing need be said about ROJ.Ultimately, we're talking about a second-in-command that had little to say himself and who took his orders from above that was played by the wheelchair pusher from Clockwork Orange instead of a vain TV star.I doubt anyone has properly adapted Doom yet. And IMO, those that point at Vader haven't really considered all the parts that make up his whole for the above mentioned reasons.The problem I have with TF is that I suspect the filmmakers did not approach the Transformers themselves as characters, but instead as set pieces. There sure are lots of human actors involved. Much has been made of who is doing the voices of Prime and Megs as well as who is NOT doing the voice of Bumblebee. You do the math!
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I humbly request that you stop hammering so hard on your fellow TBers and stick to your passions/reasons about the movie.
I'm on your side, but Yackbacker and Mrs. Superninja are TB veterans. Enough with the "Stinky McSTINK FACE!"...please? -
I don't know about 100% approval, but Batman Begins seems to be pretty much loved by all Batman fans, and it did that by being faithful to the source material and being well written and directed. All things that Bay has failed to do with TINO.
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You're assumption that the two reviews above are plants or fake is based SOLELY on the fact that they give an opinion contrary to the one you formed in your head about 5 months ago.I've said this to Yack and I'll say it to you since you sound like you're about to have an aneurism or something. Scripts are a fucking shit thing to judge a movie off. There's a reason that the whole pre-production side of movie making involves things like pre-visualisation and animatics. Reading scripts is not like reading a novel. The comparison I made in a previous TB was Tarantino's script for Reservoir Dogs. Have you read it? The scene in the coffee shop in the beggining of the movie is fucking boring when read from the pages. It's pointless drivel with zero appeal. On screen however, it's a classicAnd for the record, they make more shit videogames than good ones. That's a fact. The good videogames are like air disasters; You only hear about them because they're so rare.
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Boy, you really have fallen off your game, haven't you?First of all, YackBacker doesn't need my help with the likes of you. Nobody does. It would look like we were ganging up on an infant.Second: I don't "love" the Transformers movie. I haven't seen it yet. But I certainly don't pre-judge or "hate" upon it. I've only tried to engage these TBs in reasonable debate. Have you EVER tried that?!"I'll remove your leash..."Is that the same leash you use on your blow-up Boba Fett fuckdoll?
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There were one or two people on these very talkbacks that were adamant, in much the same way as some TF fans are here, that the movie would stink. Utterly stink. I think Mr.Nice.Gaius knows who I'm on about. Actually though I know several people who don't like Batman Begins at all. Me, I love it. But they don't. They want to see the Frank Miller stuff on screen; aint gonna happen but they can dream. The point is when people make adaptions of something that other people love they can never EVER do it right.Yack, to be honest I always had faith in Daniel Craig to deliver the goods as Bond. Never doubted him for a second. But, like Batman, there are still people who hate the movie simply because they don't the feel the casting is right.Look at all of the major blockbuster adaptions of comics or books for the last 10 years, not one, is exempt from some form of fan backlash/hatred. You had the queens who said the removal of all the Tom Bambadil stuff in LOTR would kill the movie. Organic Webshooters caused a huge stir amongst spidey purists.
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BTW: that means that you don't get banned. How can you claim "pwnage" when you keep getting banned? A child could figure that one out, Tegujai Batir 4 Prez.Well, this time, I hope you don't get banned. Why? Because you deserve to be mocked.
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Is Transformers something that could ever be translated to the big screen? Bear in mind, the comic and cartoon had YEARS to spin out its tales and its mythos. Even when they first started, it took them sever months/seasons to start getting history in place to give the franchise the air of legend that alot of people seem to believe it has.Thinking about that, should you really sacrifice action in favour of story? The idea of putting Transformers or "GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS" on screen DEMANDS a visual approach.It's interesting to hear the arguments of people claiming that there's not enough time spent around the Transformers in this movie and, in the same breath, criticising casting choices. If they had a better cast I can guarantee you now that there'd be even less on screen TF time than there already is...
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Yack - thanks for that little give-and-go earlier. The Farscape dig = priceless!TheAllSeeingEye - yeah, I think I know who you're going on about. No worries though. These TFers threads are among the most passionate and perplexing that I've seen in a long time on this site. And good point about the cast vs. robot screentime. Had they gone with bigger names, there would probably be less bot-time onscreen. And from what I've heard, the work ILM has done on this film is so amazing, people can't believe that it was budgeted for only $135-150 million. Not to mention the fact that Bay supposedly wrapped it up under budget.
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Do you say "p-own-d" when speaking to other people?
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To reduce the comparison as you have is to invite comparisons to The Phantom of the Opera, Kano, Klytus, DiCrappio and the iron mask he was behind, etc. After all, they each had to emote while wearing a mask. Hey, I'm only running with the same populist analogy here, re: Vader vs. Doom! But I agree, we kinda spun way off topic.So I'll leave it at this -- movie Doom at least reached toward being comic Doom and was no worse for it than any other non-comic adaptation. This appears to be the same approach with Prime in the TF movie, given everything suggested thus far. He's "kinda Prime."Problem I have with FF vs. TF is that I think the Four were ripped from the pages while any Transformer other than Prime isn't even a character at all. They are treated as set pieces with little characterization, similar to the General Lee. Oh, it has a name and all, but it's still an 'it'.
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Can I bitchslap you again?I mean, since I get what I ask for...
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Hey Tegujai Batir, where's that $500 you owe me?
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I'm the guy that you promised $500 to right before YackBacker made you look like a fucking fool. Or was it tool? Either one works.
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"...and because it irritates you so"
Are you my ex-girlfriend? -
How did Tegujai Batir know I'm a virgin? Is it the way I punctuate my sentences? Or perhaps my constant question on the female anatomy like "How many holes do girls have" or "I heard condoms enhance sex, is that true"...
At this point I think you are the one projecting, and I think I just "pwned" you. -
...the difference between Farscape and BSG is that now that FarScape is off the air only fuckin' nobodys care.
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Farscape is the best TV show ever? You haven't seen Hawii-Five-O then. That's a real show.Book 'em Danno, Murder OneOoh and what about 'Fantasy Island' with Ricardo Montalban and that little French Midget that wound up in a suitcase in James Bond. That's a fucking TV show.Or how about Murder; She Wrote. That was fucking cool too.Or Knight Rider? Street Hawk? Airwolf? Electro-Man? (10 points for whoever remembers that), Fraggle Rock, V..oh man..V was the fucking Bee's Knees.
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It was Go-Bots..by a fucking mile!
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enuff said.
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That was fucking superb too.Oh and Magnum P.I was awesome too, anyone else remember a show where the main character drove a Ferarri and lived with a snooty English guy? See, 'twas original.
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Miami Vice; Tubbs had a lamborghini if I remember right. But, is that better than a Ferarri?
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are you insinuating that I'm dumb? Because up until now no-one has ever brought that up, and that must make you like a genius or some shit.
Oh, it's people like you who make these TB's so fun. Who really wants coherent and civil dialogues, I'll go with cheap name calling and idiotic remarks any day of the week. -
"If anyone can point me in the direction of a movie title that's an adaption of a comic or a book that meets with full approval from the fan club I'd love to know it." I'll bite. Quickly the immediate ones that come to my mind (personal opinion as a fan of the source material) Oldboy The Crow Blade The Prestige Perfume Dune/Dune Messiah/Children of Dune 300 Sin City Batman Begins
These are films (adapted from comics/books) that I profess to be a big fan of and feel the films did the property justice or improved upon it. But that's just me. I would love to hear what others thought of these properties and their adaptations. Perhaps the hardcore fan base did not like them, but I dunno about that. Somone educate me if my view is askew.... Flipped through the Prequel and Film Adaptation comics for TINO whilst at B&N today with the wife. Yikes. They really missed some great opportunities. But this movie will make tons of money and THAT is the measure of success. -
How could I forget CHILDREN OF FUCKING MEN?!!!!
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Every other human being out there thought the various versions of Dune brought to film all sucked.
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Not if it's digital.
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Perhaps you shouldn't have bitten since you don't count as 100% of the fan base for the source material. You conducted a poll or something in the last 20 minutes?I can tell you now that 300, Sin City and Dune are definately not without their detractors. Perfume is a fucking great adaption but there were one or 2 people on here that didnt like some aspects of the translation from print to screen. And as for Batman, we've already done that.
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Sorry, I liked all of them. Then I stand alone. Thanks for the education. I knew not.
I love BSG and The Prisoner remains my favorite television show ever. Ever. -
To continue. My point HWCBN is that NO franchise is exempt from criticism from its fanbase; hardcore or otherwise.
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Hey, I was just giving my opinion. That was kind of what I thought TBs were for. Sorry I bit and missed the point.
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I'm being tetchy, there's a difference. Besides, HWCBN did kinda mention, after the fact, that hardcore fans might not like them, which is EXACTLY the point i was making.
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Add to the last postPeople would be arguing over any adaption of Transformers regardless of Bay, Designs, Don Murphy or whatever else people have used as an excuse to rag on this flick.As someone who loves the source material I'm happy with the adaption we're getting.
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I went back and re-read your post. I totally missed your point upon first reading. I confess that my daughter is a distraction, a pleasant one at that, and I shouldn't have jumped in on that discussion. Be well.
I would also say that I am an extremely hardcore Dune/Herbert fan. I really have zero problems with the adaptations that we have seen. Seriously. Both visions captured the essence of Herbert's concept. But that is just me. Clearly. -
And this isn't too far from the realms of possibility. I'd like to see another animated show based ENTIRELY on G1 and its designs, ok maybe modernise them a little but keeping the best part of the look.Animated, they can get away with recreating the same thing, they do it with the comics after all, and it would be cheap enough to make money back just from the hardcore fans of the franchise.
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See what I mean though? Clearly one mans meat is another mans poison. While you love the Dune movie there are many, MANY people who hate it with a passion. That's their perogative; i'm sure there are people, (other than scientologists), that find Battlefield Earth an entertaining flick. Each to his own.
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"The difference between Farscape and BSG is that when BSG goes off the air nobody's gonna fuckin' care"
because thats one of the dumbest things I've read today, funny all the other dumb things comes from the same guy. -
Somebody made a TINO shirt. hahahaha wow. http://www.cafepress.com/weirdbutcool.142348876
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I was really talking more about John Harrison's and not Lynch's. Whatever. I totally get your point just as I did the second time I read your original post.
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Think about it. They come from the same planet, they are the same 'race,' They are equals in strategy, power, and fighting skill.
In the movie, Optimus and Megatron were co-leaders of Cybertron. Sorta like tag-team Prime Ministers... Megs got too ambitious, and wanted complete godlike control and started a new, warlike faction on Cybertron.
When Prime & Megs call each other "brother" it's the same way Masons, communists, etc use it. A "brother from another mother" type deal.
Even still, however, technically, they really ARE "blood" brothers since in the cartoons, comics, and movie, they are created by the same entity/entities. Be it Quintessons or an Allspark cube.
Also, WATCH THE ORIGINAL G1 cartoons. Humans are ALL OVER the place. You had Spike tossing hammers and rocks at Rumble. You had Spike's girlfriend Carly. There was the nerd in the wheelchair who could make things even Wheeljack could not invent.
Also, in the first season, Bumblebee had just as much screen time as Prime. He was always with Spike. BB was involved in 99% of the first season's plots.
You people complaining are the same people who got their panties in a wad over a teenager shooting webs from his wrist instead of making a formula that 3M can't. The same people that growled in frustration coz Wolverine wasn't wearing a circus performer's outfit. The same people who complained that Sauron was a searchlight sitting on the tower. -
When I say broke, I mean value mac and cheese broke.
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When I say broke, I mean value mac and cheese broke.
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It is a temporary thing.
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Download & save, in HD: http://tinyurl.com/yt5zys
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Cause I'm stoked like Yack for this Robot Chicken special.
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Transformers? Cooooool! Cars, robots, all that stuff, brilliant, especially the robots and cars and stuff, yeh.But anyway who is this Tegujai Batir twat. Just noticed him over on the (immortal) LOST TB trying to slag us and did a search for his posts on this TB and all he has done is talk shit to people and then his one film related comment was to say Batman Begins was shit!Anyway about that trailer way up there (the Transformers one incase some of you had forgoton), that Bonecrusher transformation was awesome. The funny fat black guy saying something funny about something amid a huge crisis - very Micheal Bay.
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I'm still here, just not posting for fear of getting pwned. TheAllSeeingEye pwned the hell out of me. I'm watching Caine's Get Carter right now. Tightness. Just like my DVD collection. It's real Yack and I shall never take said library for granted.
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In the first episode outside of the Pilot There's a scene where Spike gets captured by the decepticons It funny because Bumble Bee just leaves him there so much for the loyal dog aspect. the brother aspect is weak, Orion Pax and all destroys the whole brother aspect. As for "humans all over the place" There are about 5 to about 50 transformers. I'll say this again for the hell of it The humans where a vehicle to show how heroic the autobots are and how evil the decepticons where. Not a strike force to deal with the "transformer threat", Not a boy and his 1st car on a quest for poon, Not typical racial stereotypes hamming it up.
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That's one I thought was spot on. But it doesn't really count since Barker wrote The Hellbound Heart and wrote/directed Hellraiser. I know, I know. I get the point. I'm just still on the adaptations that made me happy as a fan. I know I'll catch hell for this, but I love, love, love The Hulk. I am part of a very, very, very small minority. Jenkins' run on that series made me happy. The fifth Hellraiser film (Inferno) really captured, truly, the spirit and essence of the concept. Much like the comic series/anthology. Damn I miss that title. And the Epic imprint for that matter. And to get totally vulgar and inapprorpiate, I noticed that BSB was gone. My immediate thought? Pussy/Strip Club. I shit you not. My wife agreed, and low and behold, we were right. Are we trash? Yes, yes we are. Sorry superninja. I'm a pig.
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it's every TB, every moment of AICN, every post, every person, every review, EVERY MOVIE!You will wake up in a minute and it will be 10 years ago, you'll be standing in line for The Phantom Menace wondering if it is going to be the best film EVER and you will have to go through 10 years of AICN which you have already done, having seen every trailer, every secret on-set photo, every word of every talk back.I'm sorry, but someone had to break it to you, see you in 10 years brother.
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We've all got our vices and I like some very disliked films, but whatever. I like some revered ones as well. I would love to hold a film festival. Films for Film Fanatics That Like Tight Films. Okay, too long, but I've got the set-up, I've got the discs, I've got the Scotch. Get some! Alas, I live nowhere near the east coast, let alone New England anymore. Sigh, I miss Fenway.
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main reason for including humans in the live action version is to emphisise how big and immpressive the robots are.A few people have said they would like to see a TF film without any humans, maybe not even on earth at all.Well they wouldn't be giant robots without small humans next to them.I think that in introducing this concept to a new audience that a human viewpoint is nessacary to give the film any amount of verisimilitude. Maybe once the robots are established the sequal will take a more cartoon like dimension with the robots becoming characters at the forefront of the story.
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...anyone want to come to my film festival?Alfie (Jude Law) is on tommorrow...What? What did I say? What do you mean these arent the original versions?The man in the video shop promised me they where originals, definately not pirate copys. They even have a little hologram on them...Wow that is pretty, how the fuck do they make holograms?
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i cant wait for this friggin movie.
pls 4 of july come quickly. -
it comes out the 27th of July here in blighty, which also happens to be the day my first child is due. So I might be too busy to even see it on the big screen straight away :(Will my girlfriend let me call it Optimus in tribute?No, she won't, because apparently that would be 'silly'.'Well' i said back to her 'If a giant robot which can transform into a truck can be called silly then maybe, just maybe it is silly, but then if that's silly then what isn't, eh, eh, eh.'
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...yeh we're gona get married, not till the child is a bit older though, want it to understand what is going on and take-part in the service and all.
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Nice. I was four when my parents hitched it. I was the glorious ring bearer. Evidently I took the ring to my babysitter instead of my parents. Took a detour walking down that aisle. At least that's the story.
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But the sector 7 seems rediculous as does Megan Fox and the point of her character. As fow Shai La(whatever)'s Sam Witwicky; is it me or does it seem like in every single Micheal Bay movie the actors are Adlibbing 95% of the time.
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I gotta agree.
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to SELL AS MANY TOYS AS POSSIBLE. But the focus of the G1 series, ESPECIALLY the pilot, is viewed thru the kid's eyes. The autobots rely a TON on Spike, and then later Daniel. Human interaction is key to audience believability. Imagine if the TF movie had zero US military involvement? EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU would make wisecracks and complaints about "why doesn't the military try anything?"
Also, Orion Pax thing doesn't apply here, because the movie ISN'T GEN 1, and from the beginning was never meant to be. Rabid fanboys were told as much since before a single word of the screenplay was written. It's a new take on the classic mythos the same as Beast Wars, Energon, Armada, etc are. You get a handful of familar names and designs, but a totally different angle. Hasbro has been doing this for YEARS with the 'toons, yet when they do that in movie form, suddenly fanboys get their panties in a wad.
Just like Beast Wars, Energon and Cybertron, there are little nods here and there to G1, with a similar basic story idea, but how they develop it is different.
Having just watched the Transformers season 1 box set, I can honestly say if not for my nostalgia, the cartoon does not hold up well to an adult mind. The stories are FILLED with more plot holes and continuity errors than all the Starwars, Spider-man, and Pirates movies combined.
Sorry, rabid fanboys, but that is the truth. The Transformers movie may very well be a piece of shit, but like the toys themselves, the movie is just doing the same thing the cartoons have done over and over, just painted a different color. -
But I sure the fuck don't. This sounds as bad as we all knew. Time to give it up, this movie is not for us. This movie isn't for the people who cried in the theater when Optimus died. It's for the little assholes who thinks John Cena is an actor. Saint Hubbins and the rest of the fuckers who can proudly be apologists for festing boils of cinema oozing with pus, enjoy your Transformers movie. You earned it.
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seem like they are ad-libbing but trust me every Bay line goes through 18 script writers, 19 accountants and marketing people (to test how effective it is with certain demographics) and 7 supercomputers before being signed of by Bruckhiemer and then finally Bay himself.But anyway, the whole sector 7 thing seems nessacary as the milliatry/govenment would probably notice and react if giant robots came to earth and in script writting terms it is an easy way to explain what is going on without stupid voice over.As for Megan Fox...why does everyone here have a problem with a central human love story? If you start of with a human story then the audience can except the situation, once they are involved with the human characters and their 'human' problems when you bring in a giant robot it seems a lot more natural.Or do geeks just get upset when they see a boy interacting with a girl on-screen?
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So...the angle they're going for in the film is one in which the transformers are little more than monsters fighting amongst themselves...Somehow, I'm not that thrilled with a film about two human's journey through a TF warzone. Color me crazy, but I just figured that most people would want a movie in which the main character, Optimus Prime, and his two sidekicks, Bumblebee and Spike the human, and some other autobots who are less characterized, fight against Megatron and his sidekicks Starscream and Soundwave, and a slew of other decepticons at their disposal. Yeah, what an odd concept for a TF movie, huh?
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Its been a while since you and I conversed, huh? Boy, it sure has been a dog's age since you, Superninja, Nice Gaius, and I set up our lawn chairs to watch this ship sink, huh?
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Hi to all of you.
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Damn you, Michael Bay!
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franchise, although, I thought Supes vs. Aliens was pretty cool - sweet art.
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Thundercats, indeed, rock.
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Damn you, MCVLXXVI
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As a vet and a historian, I was absolutely disgusted by Bay's direction. Don't get me wrong, the depiction of a proper, loving relationship between a soldier and his wife would have immensely aided the audience's ability to connect with tragedy, but what Bay depicted was an outright ham-fisted, shallow MTV love triangle that rendered any attempt at relating to the real honored dead useless. And then there were the disgusting depictions of "gee whiz that was cool!" bomb drops that put the lie to Bay's dishonest and hollow etempts at "Honoring the vets." When you look at Bay's rather pathetic resume, you can't help but notice a tin ear to human relations. His characters are ALWAYS stereotypes, sometimes embarrasingly so, his films' scores are never memorable or harmonious, and much of his editing is slap dash, to say the least. He has no sense of pacing, no real vision. The man is NOT artistic in even the shallowest of deffinitions. And that was the nicest way I could put it.
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more videoclips from the movie:
http://tinyurl.com/2yqdnh
OP ripping the car's roof is cool. -
hmmm...maybe it was. I thought it was before even then. Then again, I always get my previous user names at this site mixed up. How long have I been using Moondoggy? 2 years or so?
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in sorcery and was a technological genius.
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love story in order to be accessible This sounds like more Desanto lip service to me In the Pilot episode The autobots didn't rely on spike He was a happy fanboy lucky to be the 1st person to make 1st contact. Regardless of the reason for so many transformers they were suppose to represent to waring faction which is easier represented with greater Number I brought up the Orion Pax thing to basically debunk that Bros. statement that made earlier.
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Does that sound about right?
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I enjoy a good love story. This one is executed poorly i.e. generic and unnecessary. But that's just me. I'm sure the kids will eat it up.
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I still like the scene from the cartoon where he is journaling about his experiences with the TF and their different personalities. It could've been like War Stories with giant robots. Could've been a lot of things better than what we're getting.
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I think its because a lot of these script writers just plug in plots as opposed to anything original. Lets get this demographic--love interest. Lets get this demographic--loud black people. Lets get this demographic--hot female star. Lets get this demographic--known franchise. Its corporate film making at its worst. But hey, I'm just one of the unwashed masses. What do I know, right?
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was Speilberg who suggested the 'boy and his car' angle. I honestly think that is the best way to come at a movie like this for new audiences.Imagine how shit the Matrix would have been if Neo had not started off as a normal computer geek. If that movies had just been straight off about people like Morpheous and Trinity then the audience would have switched of straight away. Any movie that deals with something that not many people have ever seen or heard off (and yes that means TF, believe it or not a lot of people have never even heard of them) or anything completely fantastical needs a relateable human angle to bring the audience out of the real world and into the fantasy world.TF fans will make up for a very small percentage of the audience in cinemas for this film. Most will be kids too young for the original cartoon (which by my estimation is anyone under the age of 20) and adults too old for the 80's or simply people like me who watched TF as a kid, still re-visit the animated movie on DVD but never read the whole comic collection or re-watched the cartoon series.How can anyone expect a studio to spend 200 million on this movie and make it only viable to die-hard TF fans.I still think Bay is a hack who makes movies for 15 yr old boys but whoever made this movie would have centred the plot around humans and definately would have started it by getting the audience to relate to the main character and in 99% of movies that is done through a love story, because the one thing we all do is love.
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ahahaha superninja whats gives babe? people seem to like the movie you hate so much? tough.
btw how are the kittens? -
You know, I honestly believe the reason they renamed Spike was because he was entirely a creation of the cartoon writers and they didnt want to pay any royalties. Yeah, I'm that cynical.
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As I understand it, the budget, including advertising, was only 150 mil. And dont even get me started on the money the franchise has already made, thanks to various products paying Dreamworks and Hasbro to use the TF name.
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I agree with everything you said except the part about Sauron. He DID look like a friggin' Vegas attraction on the top of some gaudy Vegas palace...just no denying it. I would have kept it so that only Frodo could see the eye like that (per source material) and have it be more understated to the average onlooker. ;)
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Or Bay thought, "Hmmm, we don't want them to get this character confused with the cable channel of the same name, so we should change his name." Because Bay, you know, respects his audience.
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a computer Hacker and his 1st illegal program was it?
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was because it was about a real, serious moment in history but delt with by Bay. He never should have been allowed to touch a historical event.Big robot movie, much more suited to Bay than a horrific event that actually happened.
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those movie clips were terrible. Just terrible. Basically I'm reiterating what the above reviews have already stated. And I keep forgeting that this film was made with ten year old FAS boys in mind. Sad that.
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A man who gets his hair and makeup(?!) done on set every day? Nah.....
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er they didnt rename spike's name to sam in the movie.in the g1 cartoon spike's full name is Sam Witwicky.(it is mentioned in one episode).and in the movie he has the same full name Sam Witwicky.
and you are supposed to be TF Fans? jeez -
get Fembots with big boobs and robots with beards into the film per their request via Murphy's boards. :)
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pjdon u r 100% right.someone should be crazy to invest 150m fro a movie ,in order to sell it only to hardcore fans like superninja etc and earn,how many are the tf fans btw?,100m?150m?
but spielberg;s idea about a boy and his car is the best way to bring this movie to a wider audiance,which means a bigger profit.
but i guess the haters are too stupid to realize that.
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but like I've said earlier, I'm really only familiar with the old G1 stuff (and its been a while since I've watched those). Hell, it doesnt take a TF fan to see the writing on the wall, ominus--just a film fan, or a fan of good taste, for that matter ;)
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Worst lines regarding Padme and Anakin ROTS or ATOC. "If you are suffering as much as I am, please tell me. OR " You are so... beautiful. :It's only because I'm so in love. : No, it's because I'm so in love with you. : So love has blinded you?" I feel sorry for even asking the question let alone typing those terrible quotes.
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murdered an entire village of Sandpeople and Padme barely blinks.
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this film.As a lover of the art of film I feel guilty defending Bay.As someone who is often dissapointed by how hollwood rapes some fine comic books I feel for the die-hard TF fans as they are not getting what they wanted.But putting aside all my feelings for logic I could not see a TF movie ever getting made without poaching the young demorgraphic.YackBacker mentioned above Attack of the Clones. The original Starwars films where esentially about a normal everyday farm boy with romantic dreams who got caught up in a giant adventure.The prequals focused too much on the whole fantasy universe, the Jedi's, different worlds and basicly we all hated them because we could not relate.The Matrix was about a normal guy who got caught up in a computer war. The sequals had no relateable human ancor and we all hated them.TF is about a normal boy and his gal who get caught up in a war between robots. People are acting like it is all about him and his love story, that is simply the ancor. People say it is all about a boy and his first car, well yes for 10 mins, then that car becomes a giant robot and then it is about a boy and his giant robot and a giant robot war.
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Begins and he is just Gordon. Love him.
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or understanding of review technique. He says nothing even slightly negative and uses what sounds like selling points trying to hide behind "average joe" dialog. The "Memflix" effect line is the clincher. No one who reads this site would honestly think they would get fired for giving an OUTRAGEOUSLY POSITIVE review. Second guy seems legit though.
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The love story is unnecessary in my opinion, not so much because it is a love story but because it feels forced. If they had really focused on the relationship between Sam/Spike and Bumblebee that would've been fine.
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And Pearl Harbor for that matter. I remember one historian being interviewed the night Pearl Harbor hit theaters and he said Pearl Harbor would be as inappropriate for children to watch as a historical document as porn, and you know what? He's right. Michael bay could have saved alot of time and money just getting all the still living PH vets in one place, lining them up, and individually kicking each one of them in the nuts, because that is more or less what he did with that atrocity of a film. That human component his films lack is probably due to a deeper narcissism that keeps him at a complete disconnect with the rest of the world. He is steadily becoming one of the worst directors of all time.
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pjdon again u r right.i have told the same thing in a previous tf talkback.if u notice,in most of the good scifi/fantasy films of the 80s,its the human element that makes them so classic.
the last starfighter,terminator,terminato32,alien,aliens,predator,robocop,all these films without the humanity in them would have been souless,average,we wouldnt have been able to relate to the fantasy worlds they were depicting.
but the haters here,they just dont get it. -
Indeed. I hope he gets more screen time in DK. Probably not, but at least he's back. Damn fine actor. What the hell happened to The Backwoods. I was looking forward to that. Hopefully I won't have to import.
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the script will be shit, and Bay is too heavy handed, but I can't really think of anyone else who could have done action of this scale.Well maybe Speilberg, infact he would be pefect. He understands the human element in films but never makes it too cheesy or forced and he could probably handle the spectacle.Also you are prb right in that the love story could have been just about Sam and Bumblebee.I do think that a central human character with some kind of romantic story (boy and girl or boy and robot) is 100% nessacary though.And what the hell, I want to look at Megan Fox.
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pastime. No one ever said we didn't want human characters, or humans as a through-character, just that the robots should also be the main characters. Ensemble piece.
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Jun 17, 2007 11:29:27 PM CDT
This film will never be mentioned in the same breath
by hewhocannotbenamed
as The Last Starfighter, The Terminator, Terminator 2, Alien, Aliens, Predator and Robocop. Apples and oranges. Tightness and looseness. I would even take The Last Starfighter out of that grouping. The Last Starfighter and now TINO was made with children in mind. The others for cognizant adults.
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I understand completely what you guys are talking about. Star Wars, The Matrix, Alien, Terminators, and hell yeah even the Last Starfighter all have it and are MUCH better films for it. But whatever human element you guys think exists in Transformers isn't going to be present. They are soulless meat popsicles who exist to say the most cliched diatribe that anyone could possibly put in movie script. Especially the Iraq soldier element, which are some of the most blatant stereotypes to come down the pipe in a while. My problem isn't simply that the human characters exist, it's that they are TERRIBLY written and represented which should make for some painful viewing. These paper thin representations also exist at the expense that the robots personalities are, in some cases, completely non-existent. Which completely misses the point of Transformers. Moondoggy above hit it perfectly when he said there is a disconnect with the way Bay represents humans and this script actually may be Bay's biggest offender of that yet. So if you think Transformers has anything going for it with it's human story it is you that doesn't understand the "human element" that made all those other films great, not me.
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Hey, anchors are all well and good, but I've read the script. Believe me when I say Spike isn't simply the anchor, but the hero of the story. He's the one who "kills" Megatron. See, the problem with all those films you speak of, pdjon, is that they are indeed about the hero's journey. In TF, spike is NEVER the hero. If we see his journey in this first movie, he'll only be the MAIN hero in the next one, too...
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and how do u know that the robot dont get their own screen-time in the movie? from what i have read so far BB and OP steal the show.and in a two-hour film with about 12robots and several human characters,well i believe thats more than enough.but superninja still judges something without even having seen it.pls do feed your kittens instead.
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It is possible. It's a matter of ability. Unfortunately, these writers just didn't have it in them or didn't care. And I'll say again what I said months and months ago. I loved MI:III. Save for the ending. Loved it. Still do. I expected more out of these guys.
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They could've just made Meghan Fox "Sam" instead of Shia. Love is great, but not all love has to be sexual love (lust).
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that film would have been worthless if it wasn't for Fox, he brought it to life.T2 was classic becasue we all related to John Connor.Like I said Bay is a hack (a fucking enjoyable one though) but we are conning ourselves if we expect the producers to even consider handing a movie like this over to someone who would do something risky with it.Wheras the sequal will already have a built in audience, the robots will be accepted as characters and they might even get a new director.This is the most that could have been expected of a movie whos primary aim is to introduce the worl to giant robots.
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Just heard about it: http://www.elpasotimes.com/entertainment/ci_6164939
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Because TF are basically human beings, they just look like giant robots. There is nothing alien about them except for their trappings, just as there is nothing alien about Luke Skywalker from a long time ago in a galaxy, far, far away.
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because Harry picked HD-DVD
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Loved is as a kid and had fond memories of it. Saw it about a month or so again on cable and it does not hold up well.
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true superninja but the average joe wont relate to a humanized robot.you,i and the rest of the people here are geeks,nerds,people who read comics and watch cartoons/anime.we can relate to a cartoonish robot,we cried when OP died in the movie.but the average joe isnt like us,he even wont accept that living robots could exist in the real world.he will just say that the whole concept is ridiculous.
and that is a fact that spielberg knew,and thats why he came up with the boy and his car idea.so that the average joe can relate to a familiar thing,something he can accept.thats the whole situation. -
Bay was good at writing humans, hell he has probably forgoton what they really are in his explosion filled coked up world.I was just pointing out that even if done baddly they are nessacary. Bay's characters have always been paper thin (The Rock, Bad Boys, armageddon) but they have always made me laugh.And from a few people I have spoke to Shia LaBeouf is great, someone even said he reminded them of Fox in back to the Future.And if you took all the human element out and just had the robots and it was still a Bay film it would be even more paper thin.
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boy and his car concept. I just wish that it was more about that (Sam's friendship with Bumblebee)than the McGuffin chase and Shia trying to get in Meghan's pants. TF is about war, it should've been a war movie, they could've used a template from the long great tradition of war movies. Bay made another Pearl Harbor, so maybe this is the best approximation he can do.
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with Megan looking under the hood was cheezy trash, Shia comes off as pretty likeable and has screen presence. He is definitely not enough of a draw to make me want to see the movie, though.
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again well said pjdon,well said.
guys the best example is terminator2.yes arnie was utlra cool,the main character,the protagonist,the super cyborg etc but it was the relationship with the young connor which gave him soul,which made us to sympathize with him,to accept him like something more than a super cool machine.didnt u cry when he spoke to connor about his tears and then he sacrifized to save our future?
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superninja how the hell do u know that the whole movie is about how shia is going to jumb megan?i asked u this in a previous talkback and u didnt answer me.
i ask again.how many pages from the script are ONLY about shia and megan? -
do a page count, you're welcome to do that yourself if you'd like.
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Shia and Megan i.e. focused on them. Don't read the script. Pay to see the film and endorse mediocrity. Anyway you take it in, it's subpar and insulting. The racial stereotyping shit is really grating for someone like me. And don't play that PC bullshit card. It's just weak. The Transformers take the back seat character wise. You'll see.
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that being A Guide to Recognizing Your Saints. I thought he was great and believable. I thought the film was phenominal. Strong throughout. Is all the hate because he is the chosen one of the Berg? Or because he sounds like a tool when interviewed?
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amongst themselves like movie monsters. The only difference is in the cartoons, the fighting always seemed to be in abandoned mines, out of the way power plants, etc, where real human/robot interaction was bear minimum. The element of disguise RARELY came into play after the pilot episode. In the 2007 movie, at least, the autobots try to blend in with society...
And yes, I will compare a 25+ crappy cartoon with a 2007 movie since everyone else is drooling over the cartoon. As a 6yr old, I LOVED the cartoon enough to beg my parents for the entire first wave of toys (still have prime!)... but as a 29yr old, the only character I still like is Prime. The others were never adequately developed. Movie Prime fits pefectly with the other Primes, even with flames.
peace out, whiners! -
Kept saying page did not exsist, thought I had entered Yack's world and imagined the site altogether for all these years.Anyway, erm, robots and stuff, yeh....
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shrek is a cartoon.wrong example.
if transformers were a cgi movie, well yeah i am pretty sure that it would have appealed to a wider audience without any of the human element.but as live action movie?no way.
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I thought the Mighty Two Chins struck again.....
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Just curious, are the people who predicted that AvP was going to suck haters? How about Ghost Rider, were those people haters? Fantastic Four? All haters?
I tried, I really tried to think of a genre movie where the "haters" were wrong and I can't think of a single one. Seems to me that the genre fans are pretty fucking good at predicting which of these movies will suck or not. -
where fully ani,ated films. R2-D2 was loved but only because we had human characters alongside him, he never would have got his own film where he was the main character.It is fully possible to have robots as the main antagonists but we need a movie with a central human character to introduce them.Anyway I am going to go home now, chat to you all tommorrow. Laterz.
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had years of history, Alien, Aliens, Predator where all amazing films, the AVP graphic novel was a pre-made template for a perfect AVP film.Then they gave it to a no-name director and got him to make it for small cash in a dull pyramid setting.Ghostrider and FF where classic names that had stood the test of time and then where handled in the most dull obvious way.TF is a franchise which hasn't been around that long, only the comics had any real value and they are being made into a giant action movie which will show us stuff we have never seen.I suppose the difference is that AVP, Ghostrider etc couldn't even excite in the action sense, we all maybe expected a bit of depth or fun. we got neither. With this I expect a big, dumb but explosive action movie, that is what I will get and that is all I wanted.I don't think a single person expected much(even any real dumb fun) from P W.S ANderson making AVP.Nite all.
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so superninja you havent watched the film yet,you dont know how many pages from the script are only about shia's affair and yet you whine that the whole movie is about shia and megan.really you do realise that you dont have any credit to support such claim?how old are you?
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I suppose what the main difference is, is that with AVP, Ghost rider n FF there isn't really a case of people saying they have no real love for the characters. Everyone of us had a large amount of respect for the history and characters.What is creating arguments with TF is that only a relitivley small number of people are die-hard TF fans. The rest of us remember them but don't care for the mythology or depth of the characters.FF have always been part of my life, and the comics stand the test of time. TF was just a childhood fad with some later day nostalgic lookbacks for me and many people.I'm not saying TF will be more worthy than FF but I don't really care if they rape the characters and I know it will be some amazing shallow action fun.
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...the test of time? 25 years isn't long enough? Alien is only 30 years old for crissakes.
And BSG was a "childhood fad" of mine that was brought back with respect and is now the most acclaimed science fiction show ever produced, and there is absolutely no reason TF could not have been approached with the same respect. Just because it looks like cheesy 80s trash to modern eyes doesn't mean it must remain so, and BSG is more than proof of that. -
And still it seems to me that the only way you both think you 'win' an argument on here is either to ignore valid questions, change the subject, throw up a few weak smoke screens, then leave proclaiming victory.
Superninja; I'm dishonest now, am I? Please point out anywhere during this TB where I have been dishonest. I CAN honestly say that I'll still be watching this film.
Also, Superninja; I'm still waiting for your enlightening justification of why Bay's 'reverse-engineered' TF's are totally implausable, and pink, female robots are just fine. Also, another question you avoided; do lady robots mean that TF's reproduce sexually?
Also, I'd like to add another question - TF's on earth disguise themselves as earthly vehicles, etc. I'm fine with that - makes sense, given the whole 'robots in disguise' tag. So why would an alien race (prior to interacting with earthlings) design themselves based on human aesthetics, eg; G1 cartoon robots with 'beards', and pink lady robots? What purpose would a robotic beard serve on a planet full of advanced alien robots serve?
Yackbacker; you say you just want/expected a 'good' film - fine. Based on your definition of 'good', you were never going to get that from this film, based on its source material. Your hopes were raised far too high for a film based on a toyline.
Summer spectacle was always going to be what this film gave us. Looks like it will deliver.
Until the cash-eating monster that is Harry Potter arrives... -
i wish the bayhaters would just grow up
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My question is completely valid in the context of 'reverse-engineering' being ridiculous, but the scource material this film is based on being even more so. That's why I keep bringing it up.
People's expectations (and hatred)for this film are entirely out of proportion with the source material.
Superninja dismissed robot beards as being just aesthetics. So are flame decals. What was her point? Peterbilt trucks with flame decals are less plausible than bearded robots? -
er he doesnt kill megatron.he just deactivates the decepticons by using the allspark.only ss manages to escape.which means if the movie is a hit,we ll get a sequel with megatron again.just like the g1 cartoon.hm i wonder if shouts retreat in the movie.mouahahaha
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Justify female robots and robot beards then.
Also, not having seen the film, I can't comment, but does it state implicitly that in this film, the robots are completely powered by General Motors engines?
18 Year-old killing Megatron - ridiculous? Sounds a bit 'David and Goliath' to me... of course, there has NEVER been an instance in a SINGLE film EVER, where something comparatively small and weak has taken down something bigger and stronger, has there? -
Stating your fucking opinions as fact, when you've yet to see the film.The plots not stupid the reviews are. They, like some of the other fucks on here can't follow a simple plot. You guys need a wallet shoved in your mouth when a camera doesn't stay still. Well if you need a camera to stay still, watch fucking bonanza seriously people. Well durr all I can remember dur was dur explosions dur. Meagan had boobs, and I jacked off dur, da rest of da movie dur, and missed dur Meganman, duh megacron dur, megatrons arm shooting mahbober doohickey dur. Me like boobs me dur, say animations was good dur, best.
This movie will own this summer. So you fuckers have fun inbetween looking for penis enlargment pills, and naked pics of Megan Fox. Because you only show how fucking stupid you are. -
"reverse-engineered" designs are copouts because they make the robots seem as thought hey are orignally cars that were peiced together to form a robot (ala junk art). When we think of transformers, indeed what has been the template for TF's entire franchise history, is that they are ROBOTS IN DISGUISE of vehicles/objects. As an example (and this is just a very simple one for better extrapolation), the TFs from the 80s always seemed like robots with the accessories of a vehicle attached. Prime was still prime, his accessories (wheels at the legs, smokestacks on the shoulders)simply changed from one incarnation to the next. In Bayformers, the robots are entirely composed of carparts. They dont appear any sturdier than the object they are replicating. They all look spindly; their parts are entirely composed of car parts and ONLY car parts. Its as though the car changed into the robot, which is the opposite of TF's premise. As for your pink robots/bearded robots thing goes, it seems as though you are simply erecting a straw man, paw. Sure, those are 80s design flourishes (such things always occur in design processes), but they are not the CORE CONCEPT. Besides, if you have a problem with beards, I believe you will hate the film version of optimus--he's sporting a blue, rectangular X-treme goatee. As for the point that you seem to be making about one design asthetic being as good/legitimate as another, well, I can tell you're not an artist, paw, otherwise you would never even approach such a statement. Beards and pink robots may have been okay in the eighties (and they were), but a gaudy design like flames is pretty bad by today's standards. When you consider that such a trashy design graces the most beloved character (and character design) of the entire franchise, well, perhaps you can understand our sentiment.
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Now you are saying that you have no problem with Spike killing megatron? Well, that statement pretty much sums up your credibility. For a person who seems to care so little about a franchise's core premise, characters, storylines, and fan base, its rather odd that you would hang here, huh?
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about the designs and the transformations,read what production designer Jeff Mann said:
“Initially I focused on what each character needs to get done during the course of the story,” Mann says, “then I focused on the idea of what they are before they transform and finally, how do they transform? I wanted the designs to be rich and textured so that audiences would feel like somebody cared enough to create a backstory to enhance the viewing experience. Of course Michael’s mandate was that the robots be cool while respecting the designs that came before.”
Wild though it may seem, Mann unearthed some rather lofty theories about the transforming robots during his research; one such notion even suggested that the transformations had a basis in molecular nano engineering.
“The logic is something along the lines of every cell of the robot is a machine in itself and the robots essentially regenerate themselves,” he says, “which doesn’t make sense given that the robots are born, live in a society of other robots and can be destroyed. But I guess you just have to suspend disbelief when you’re trying to figure out the genesis of a robotic race of beings,” he says, shrugging his shoulders.
Despite such fanciful theories, Mann says the filmmakers did attempt to adhere to some rules when it came to the transformation process. “Our robots have the capacity to find a vehicle, scan it and replicate that vehicle,” he explains. “And each robot can only replicate into something equal to its own mass. For example, Jazz becomes a Pontiac® Solstice® whereas Optimus® becomes a big truck. It was important to Michael that the robots transform into similar sized objects. We even had evolutionary charts for each character.
“In the cartoon, the robot shapes are essentially a series of linked boxes, softened on the corners and stacked one on top of another when they transform,” Mann says. “But the cartoon robots could also become anything in any given situation, which was a bit too easy and would have felt like we were cheating if we did that. In our version the robots have limitations and cannot change form willy-nilly. Our Transformers™ are not endlessly malleable, they’re not gas; they do not have magic powers. They are simply technology beyond our understanding.”
“We assembled a team of about 25 artists to do conceptualized storyboards, to illustrate the updated look of the robot/cars. Each one had an expertise -- one guy was designing eyes, one guy did overall facial structure, another did the feet. It took months and months. Hasbro helped us, but they also let me do my thing.
“With Optimus® we had to make the ears bigger to get more of a samurai look,” he explains, “but we would vet most of these changes through Transformers™ geeks to make sure we weren’t way off track because they know the lore and they know why certain robots look a certain way or have the ability to do certain things.” -
In reviewing most of these posts, I can only say that the most optomistic view for this film is for things to blow up nicely, and to say that is either good or bad would be to invalidate my handle.
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the rest of the article about the making of the film is here:
http://tinyurl.com/39kk6o -
I thought the Robot Chicken special woulda been better with more original stuff and not re-runs (or maybe I just saw too many previews on AdultSwim.com).
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I'm a mad G-wiener wahwahwahhhh. They made the designs all wrong. When I was a child I was able, **with a little baby oil** to shove prime right up my poop shute ! Now the designs are more real, and not boxformers. They have sharp points, and detail . It's a real pain in the ass wahhhhh. -
"because they make the robots seem as thought hey are orignally cars that were peiced together to form a robot (ala junk art)." - the most pertinent word there being 'seem'.
The G1 robots didn't look like they could TF into ANYTHING; your example is correct - they looked like shitty manga robots with car parts stuck on (as an afterthought). Their transformations were more like 'morphing', with no respect for mass or size. These live-action TF's are as convincing as they possibly could be.
My argument regarding beards and female robots is not a 'straw man'. Sadly, nowadays, this is a term used by pseudo-intellectuals like Yackbacker and Superninja to dismiss an argument they can't refute. Superninja was sneering at the 'reverse-engineering' for being implausible compared to the G1 cartoon designs, I brought the subject up to show that the original cartoon was full of shocking implausibilities that she seemed willing to overlook.
Your last point is purely opinion. I'm not even going to open a whole new can of worms by asking you to define 'artist' in this day and age. Suffice to say, the flames bother me not a jot, and it wouldn't be considered unusual to see such a decal on a vehicle in this day and age. Pink = female is a human aesthetic. Now let's just forget the ridiculous implications that there ARE female robots for a minute; why would they need to be pink anyway?!
I appreciate your sentiment however, but can't share it in light of all the above. I consider it to be picking at minor details. -
that is in the "here's a laundry list of things wrong with the film, but the effects are great and Bay blows shit real good" crowd. From that point on, anybody on that list will be held accountable in further talkbacks concerning other films. ........................Or we could just shun them.
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And you'd have been happy if they'd filmed that would you?! Flames on Prime = WWIII, but Beards on Autobots = fine? Would it have been OK if the live-action designers used wire wool for the beards, or would you have preferred rigid, spiky metal beards? Hey! They could put wire wool round Megatron's mouth, then it really WOULD look like a robot vagina!
So given your explanation, why did not of the robots on earth in the G1 cartoons have beards? Just the ones on cyberton?
Can I just ask you again, just to clarify, you'd have been happy if the live action film involved beards on robots? -
Where the fucking hell are you getting that any of us want pink female robots? Or beards? What the hell kind of trip are you on man? No one has ever said they wanted anything like that in the film. If no one has answered your questions about them it's because you are pulling things out of thin air and we don't have time to haggle with every nut who walks through the door. Next thing you know you'll be accusing us of trying to argue Battle Beasts into the film. One thing YOU still haven't done is argue the film on it's own merits. Honestly man I want to see you justify the script, if you haven't read it yet then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Before I do, I should point out that your belief that my labeling your argument, correctly, I might add, as a straw man as pseudo intellectual is merely a reverse on what you infer from supes, yack, and presumably myself. In point of fact, your argument is a straw man because it raises the notion that those of us who despise certain aspects of design in modern characterization somehow prefer the bad aspects of previous designs. Such an argument never occurred, paw. So, we have two mistakes: illogical inference and the classic straw man argument. Again, I realize you were perhaps being facetious, so I'll give you the benefit of a doubt. But don't lash out at me for putting the proper labels on packaging. As for point about what is art, I simply made that point when you supposed that one aesthetic is as good as another, when it truly is not. Oh, I am aware that in your little world of relativist judgement that there is no such thing as bad aesthetic, but I can only tell you that you are wrong.
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IndustryKiller!; Again, I brought up the subject of pink lady robots (PLR's) and robot beards (RB's), as an example to show how ridiculous some of the nitpicking is; Superninja scoffs at the 'unrealistic reverse-engineering', but seems quite happy to overlook unrealistic and ridiculous PLR's and RB's in the original source material. Being as the TF film is based on this source material which contains MANY ridiculous premises, nitpicking at 'reverse-engineering' seems a bit anal. I'm not suggesting that you or Superninja WANTS PLR's, etc in the film.
That said, regularfacetoht seemed quite comfortable with the idea..
moondoggy2u; see above for what I am trying to say.
As for art; surely one aesthetic being as good as another is dependant on the individual doing the viewing? However, where did I say or imply that one aesthetic is as good as another?
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OK... so you'd not be happy with the explantion that if the robots scanned cars, they'd take on the complete design characteristics of a car, including engine, then? I mean, they can scan humans and grow beards - and you'd be happy with one scanning a 'guy with glasses' and having his computer 'approximate it', but it would be implausible to do the same for a car and engine?
Once the robot is in robot form, what would be the point in having glasses? To make it look less like a fucking huge robot?!
Their disguise IS the vehicle form; if you're going to disguise yourself, and you're a superior alien being with the ability to replicate human designs, I'd say including the engine would be a pretty fucking good move... -
That is all.
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Beards...pink lady robots.... fuck me the nerdometer just went off the scale...
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Bad News bear Kelly Leek solves the mystery? Wha-huh?!
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The reason Superninja despises the reverse-engineering aspect is because it violates TF's basic principle: robots in disguise. Bayformer's principle seems to be vehicles that can look like robots. I agree, its subtle, but it is a contributing factor to the general opinion that the designs are less then desirable. You think we overlook previous flaws in design? For my part, no, I don't. Many of the older designs had bad aspects as well, but for the time period, they were very few and far between. In that day and age, those designs were pretty cutting edge, so the ideas of beards and pink robots, while cheesey, were mostly not too distracting. The source material may contain many rediculous premises in your view, but THE ULTIMATE PREMISE was robots in disguise. If you dont like the idea of robots that turned into vehicles while still retaining the primary form of ROBOT, then you need to find another franchise. Its a core premise and as can be inferred from these boards, if you ignore a core design principle you will get some fan ire. Furthermore, although you say that you arent suggesting we want bad designs from the 80s, your previous arguments seem to argue to the contrary. Is an aesthetic being as good another completely dependent upon the individual? No, it isn't. Aesthetic is largely dependent upon the SETTING, PREMISE and MESSAGE, and HISTORY. Sure, tastes vary, and one man's junk is another's treasure. But one work of art is not as good as another. One must always consider setting, premise, message, and history. Concerning the classic design of Prime, there was a reason for the fondness of that design, characterization, and execution. In Bayformers, the design is all wrong and not aesthetically pleasing: its too busy, no definable sillouhette, and the flames are too gaudy for the character (it goes against the nature of the character). Where did you say one aesthetic is good as another? Why, in your very most recent post, you said that aesthetics is dependant upon the individual doing the viewing. That is relatvism. And in at least twenty odd posts, you've stated that the design flaws in the current film are just as bad as the design flaws in the classic, when in fact, they arent. How else am I to understand your values in aesthetics? You seem to have a blind eye to such things. Good lord, man, have you not had even a basic draftsman class? How about art? Does anyone know if Art History still covers basic design techniques?
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In all these BAYFORMERS designs that you seem to geek out over, where are the parts of the transformer that cause him to be a transformer? All I see are carparts formed together to appear robot-like. I mean, where's the circuitry? Surely Optimus doesnt actually run on deisal? Does Bumblebee require 89 or 93 octane? There are no robot parts on these robots--they're all car parts.
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wtf are you talking about moondog?
you are telling that, from what you have seen in the trailers,we dont have walking cars which transform into cars,but walking cars which transform into robots?is that it? -
Well, seeing as we're getting right down to minute details... Who says that all the cybertronian gumph has to be stored under the bonnet/hood? Why can it not be tucked away in the rest of the car's structure? Who's to say it ISN'T?
As for a giant robot being less intimidating by dint of wearing sunglasses; well that's personal opinion; I'd be pretty fucking intimidated by a giant robot sunglasses or not. It'd be the robots intentions towards me that would make the difference. -
well regularfacetoht:
1.wait for the sequel.the first movie is just the introduction.
2.the robots do have personalities,although the restriction of movie-time doesnt allow for a bigger development.but we do get bb and op.
3.again wait for the sequel.but we do get a glimpse on their relationship in the movie.
4.u havent watch beast wars,have u?
5.flames are personal taste,but op does behave as john wayne.
6.only if u gave the budget of the movie.
7.they do,in fact without the autobots the military wouldnt have been able to defeat them.
8.ok
9.they did a great job for their alts.raptor f-22 for the win.
10.thats a personal taste.i find the desings perfect. -
The point has been made and if youre just going mis characterize an argument, then there is no real point in debating you.Pawprint--now youre just reaching ;).
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"so the ideas of beards and pink robots, while cheesey, were mostly not too distracting. " - that's fine, because I don't find Flames too distracting.
"Sure, tastes vary, and one man's junk is another's treasure. But one work of art is not as good as another. One must always consider setting, premise, message, and history." - So firstly you say that art is all about taste and personal opinion, then you completely contradict yourself by saying 'one work of art isn't as good as another'? What the hell are you on about? 'Art' is in the eye of the beholder. I find Tracy Emin's 'Shitted Bed' to be sub-art, Emperor's New Clothes; but there are many more people who hailed it as genius. Who am I to tell them they are wrong? If they enjoy it, good on 'em.
"One must always consider setting, premise, message, and history"; no, 'one' mustn't - that's just pretentious fucking art-school twaddle. I don't have to consider anything, if something appeals to me on a visual level, then it appeals - shit bust. I like the work of Constable; couldn't tell you why. I think Van Gogh's work is overrated fucking shite. I thought a poster I had of Micky Mouse surfing through a tube was brilliant... no-one can tell me I'm wrong; only that they disagree with my taste.
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because you are either a)contrary, b)without taste or c)12 or d)all of the above
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jesus regularfacetoht,the tranformers just scan the exterior characteristics of the cars and they mimic only that.for example the engine looks like a car engine,but inside it there is cybetronian technology.even bay has said that the transformers-cars arent like normal cars but like super cars.they show this even in the trailers,movieclips.
godammit at least get your facts straight when you are nitpicking at something. -
moondoggy2u if you cant answer my question,then at least dont pretend that you have a strong argument.we are adults after all..
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Its hardly contradictory, if you read carefully. I never said what was art and what wasn't. I said what was good and and what was bad art. If you feel that art cannot be judged, then I feel no need to argue with such a simpleton.Pretentious fucking art twaddle? If your true tastes in art are as described, then you've proven my point exactly. Have fun at bayformers.
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The argument for the junk piles is now that there's "stuff" INSIDE the gears and pistons that facilitate movement. Well ladies and gents, I've had enough arguing with appologists. Have a good night.
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Please show me where I can find this interview with Bay, if it exists online.
Look, my whole point is - people are willing to overlook all kinds of tripe in the source material, but are murdering this film in potentia for other nitpicky details.
Why don't we just break it right down and start arguing that giant sentient transforming robots are implausible, and leave the small details alone?
In order for the G1 TF's to 'morph' into vehicles on screen and as toys, they had to be ugly, basic, boxy pieces of shit. This is the 21st century, I for one would have been disappointed if they'd not been updated. At least in the live action film, they look as though they believably TF into and from vehicles of similar mass and size. -
at pawprint, by the way. Sorry for the misnomer.
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fist define art,and then we can talk about judging it.
about the designes just this clip:
ignore the dialgoe between shia and his dad.
just look carefully at bb.look at his gestures.look his hands and his face.look how he interacts with op and shia.
this robot brings emotion.can u feel it in this scene?can u feel that this little bugger has a human soul inside him?
if you can feel it,then answer me this:if the designs were so shitty,then how are able to cause emotions in the big screen?it sounds like a little contradiction no?
but then again if ,in this scene,u receive bb as a souless piece of machinery and nothing more,then my friend how do u find the courage to judge anything that is called art?with what qualifications?because u own a lot of dvds?thats all. -
"Proved your point", don't be so fucking lazy. I like Constable; I find his paintings aesthetically pleasing; therefore to ME, this is good art. I'm not asking you to agree, merely to tell me why I am wrong.
Which you can't; because this is MY personal taste.
Don't be so fucking pretentious - would you suggest I go to a 'Food School' so I can be taught what foods I like to eat? -
oups forgot the link:
http://tinyurl.com/2a6jfu
and moondoggy2u it ist a defence. its a fact.and dont tell me that in the g1 cartoon,the robots had two machines in their car hood.one normal and one cybertronian.get serious. -
first off, if you dont like my criteria for judging art, then you can never get into a discussion over aesthetics--ever. And please, save the notion of avante guarde for something other than the creative equivelant of a happy meal. The design of prime is bad because its TOO BUSY--simplistic design is ALWAYS BETTER when dealing with charicatures. If there is too much movement, too much detail, then definition of movement is lost and your eye is left to wander. See, this isn't a question of what is art, ominus, but rather, proper design aesthetics. Pawprint and I got a little sidetracked with art definition, as though this were philosophy 101. Does Prime emote? Sure. Does that mean his design is effective? No, simply servicable. When in motion, especially engaged with other transformers, there appears to be a lot of difficulty for people to tell distinguish characters. Again, this reflects poorly upon the designers. Now, unless where talking about dada art, poor aesthetics that contribute to bad design relative to the ARTIST's attempt is BAD ART. I'm sorry that you feel differently, but thats the difference between reality and fantasy land. Pawprint--ahh, there's that word again: pretentious. You sure seem to enjoy using it whenever someone has accurately labled your argument and/or reasoning. Do you need to be in "food school" as you put it? No. You like what you like. But if you are going to enter a serious discussion about cooking, some education would be helpful. Just because you enjoy mac 'n cheese doesnt mean it enjoys the same status as filet minion. To Put it simply, junk art/food/designs is just that: junk. Sure, there's a market for it, but it will never be as well reguarded as the good stuff. We can argue all day about the good stuff, but there has to be some kind of a threshold. Just to bring it home: this new design of Optimus will be and is instantly forgettable. Its disreguard for basic design principles is THE contributing factor as well as the fact that certain details seemingly betray the known characterization. The classic design of Prime is classic because it followed the rules of design, and thus is more memorable.
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is that the one thats been contraversial is BAYFORMERS' best designed Transformer. Don't even get me started on the stodgy designs of Ironhide, Barricade, and Megatron--those are just outright horrible junkpiles. Optimus is at least mostly recognizable and distinguishable MOST OF THE TIME. Starscream, although the design still seems a bit top heavy and twiggy-limbed, is at least simplistic enough that he doesnt look like walking scrap. Bumblebee, though sporting a freakish S&M mouthpiece does appear to be alright, aesthetically speaking. Jazz is pretty good, too. But all of them, at least, the ones we've seen in action so far, suffer from over-rendered designs. Why do you think a lot of people call them junk piles, scrap metal, etc. and nearly everyone who has seen the film and trailers have complained about being unable to distinguish characters in the midst of action?
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define busy characters.what do you mean? they have too many colours?too many angles?too many shapes? and how this affect the perception of their robotic bodies and their characters?
people are unable to recognise where primes torso,head,eyes,nose,hands,legs atc are?this is what you are saying?
BUT if op and bb emote as you agree,that means that the people do understand their facial expressions and body language.that they interact with what they are seeing.that they are seeing something more than just noisy desings.which means that these designs are effective.they give a human quality in the robots beings.
to sum up either you accept the fact that the robots emote which means that the designs ar succesfull,or you accept that they dont emote which means you have a problem in understanding art.
btw did u see the clip?what do you think of bb?isnt he cute?
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"Just because you enjoy mac 'n cheese doesnt mean it enjoys the same status as filet minion."
Says who? Where is it written that filet mignon is 'better' than mac 'n' cheese. Personal taste. To suggest it is better because it is a meticulously crafter french dish makes it automatically better than mac 'n' cheese is pretentious. Palates vary, tastes vary.
Now, I agree with what you are saying when you're talking about the TECHNICALITIES between art styles; if someone attempted a painting in the cubist style and fucked it up royally, it would be 'bad' in the sense that it professed to be cubist, but was nowhere near. However, I can still enjoy it without knowing shit about cubism.
The new design of Prime is necessarily updated, and is aimed at a new audience, and will become iconic to them. It is displeasing to you, because you are emotionally attached to what has gone before.
I have NO problem recognising Prime in the new film, or BumbleBee, or Megatron. -
"Bayformer's principle seems to be vehicles that can look like robots"Am I missing something here? What's the difference between that and a robot that can look like a vehicle? Absolutely none since transformers are both vehicles and robots; hence AUTObots
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heh you are right theallseeingeye,but the haters have left with no more arguments to use.poor creatures..
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This goes against my better judgement, but I will break it down even more simply. Being too busy means TOO MUCH DETAIL. This affects the perception because during movement, the human eye recognizes silouhettes, OUTLINES, of shapes rather than individual details. With Bayformers, you can't make out many of the outlines. There are a slew of Bayformer images out there in which its impossible to descern arms and legs from other limbs (Ironhyde and bonecrusher are perfect examples of this). Prime, the most simplistic design of the bunch, has a hard time with the face. Up close, REAL up close, you see about a dozen different details. Can he emote? Yes. But simply because he is decernable in that reguard doesnt mean the design is good in other angles. When at a distance, Prime's face becomes a mass of lines and planes--you cant tell his facial features (in some stills, its difficult to make out the eyes). There are a million gears whirling and gyrating while Prime is doing nothing more than bracing for impact--movement that, while cool on HDTV, is still distracting from the overall point of the shot: Prime bracing for impact. Hell, I found myself staring at his whirling tires more than I did his shoulders and head--a serious problem with the design. Thats what I mean by too busy, Ominus; there is no time for the eye to center on something, and when it does, it is most often NOT on the part that should be emphasized. Think of it like a news paper article: to get your point across, you follow a structure (inverted pyramid). If you deviate from the structure, you will fail to accurately and succinctly inform or frame your message. Same goes for term papers, novels, and art. I've even heard that such notions even apply to film, too. As for your attempt at boxing me in with with your either/or statement, you are way, way off. Just because a design works in one area doesnt mean its successful in others. Vida Guerra may have a cute behind, but her face is still the kind to be covered by a paper bag. Likewise, just because Prime's face was servicable (I didnt say great) in the emotion departion doesnt mean his entire design is workable in the MOTION department (it isn't). Is Prime art? Well, assuming for a moment that we will defign his design as art, its still BAD art. It disobeys the basic structures of design that are inherent to the medium (film, ie. motion, discernability, and emotion). Considering the intent of the makers of said art were trying to communicate the previously stated characteristics of film (motion, etc.), they failed, too. SO yes, its a flawed design. Now, if you ask me to define anything else, You'll have to do your own research. G'night.
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Lets see, Ominus and Pawprint are two people who dont believe that mac n' cheese and filet minion are of equal status, they both feel Bayformers designs are pitch perfect, and that one cannot judge design. In fact, one of them goes so far as to say that all art and design is of equal footing. Why, one of them even use the term hater while the other thinks any sort of cultured taste is pretentious (he's even used the term about a dozen times in his posts). Yup, pretty much sums up Bay's audience. Have fun at the kiddie's table, you two crazy kids. Just too rich. For all of those getting up right now, take a good hard look at the posts of Pawprint and ominus. THAT is Bay's audience and the very definition of lowest common denominator. Haters indeed...
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"Ominus and Pawprint are two people who dont believe that mac n' cheese and filet minion are of equal status"; whatever you're trying to say - wrong. As pointed out, I don't believe you can put status on things that are down to personal taste, and nor should you. If I like it - it's good; if I don't - it's shit. feel free to disagree, but don't try and tell me I'm wrong because you went to art school.
For all those getting up right now, take a look at moondoggy2u's posts. THAT is a man floundering, out of his depth, drowning in his own pretention. Another irrational person who's argument basically boils down to, "Wahhh... I don't like the new Tranformers, they don't look like G1. They put flames on Optimus, but a beard would have been OK..".
Yes, I might be putting words into his MOUTH, but read his posts, and you can see that they're already in his head. -
By the way; I appreciate the 'finer' things in life, but I don't adopt the attitude that I'm better than anyone else because I do. We all enjoy what we enjoy.
I also don't come on here and spout art-school pretention, trying to tell people what they shouldn't or can't like. Basically, your whole argument is based on what you think WE should like, and your nostalgic view of G1, and the fact that we don't agree doesn't make us idiots. And THAT'S what's boiling your piss. -
reading over the last load of posts, i personally find it hilarious these transformer talkbacks and the crazy shite that people will disucss in minute detail.. class stuff! i mean who gives a fuck where they hide the cybertronian gear inside the cars..i mean really who cares as long as the bloody things look cool which to me they most certainly do
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moondoggy2u is a pretentious twat;
"One must always consider setting, premise, message, and history." I bet he was sat with an art-school textbook on his lap, feeling all smug...
Really, all these people can hold onto now that positive reviews are coming in, is anal nitpicks at the most miniscule of things. They try and portray themselves as being on a higher intellectual plane than us because we enjoy the odd summer spectatcular. I wouldn't want to see a live-action TF film busting with convulted, mystic bollocks about Matrix-prime cubes, and laser-swords that appear from nowhere. Let's just have a stand-off ruck between good and bad with squishy humans caught in the middle.
At least now they can't complain that the robots aren't in it ENOUGH.
I mean, jesus - what's the point of arguing about where the bits go or how they tranform? The TFing was never realistic in the cartoon, and the whole subject of realism goes out the fucking window anyway when you're talking about sentient alien robots. At least the live action TF's look convincing when they TF. -
Jun 18, 2007 6:22:44 AM CDT
people said the buzz was low for x3
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
how much money did it make opening weekend? too bad it had such a big second week drop off (due to its suckness) or it wouldve made 300 mil here.
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TOO MUCH DETAIL IS THE PROBLEM? R U FUCKING SERIOUS?
one simple example to show you why you are very wrong to your argument.
the human face.just the human face.its the most complex thing (from a desing point) in the human body.it has eyes,nose,mouth,etc,it has very flexible muscles and u can use this complexity in order to express express anger,pain,happiness,misery etc,you can say which woman has a nice face and which one is ugly.you can say when a man is old or young.you can even tell when one lies or is telling the truth.and so on.all these thanx to the complexity of the human face.
even in the g1 cartoon,most of the robots had morphing faces,not static ones,because with morphing the animators were able to express easily the robots' emotions.
but a cgi morphing face wouldnt have worked so well in a live action movie,so instead bay and co designed a more complex face which looks mechanical but at the same it can express emotion too.they used the complexity as an advancement,and godammit if you watch the trailers and the movieclips it works.
and then we have the mass.the robots do look that they are huge and heavy,and when they are moving all these details in their body,gives you the impression that they are indeed a living creature which breathes,walks like a human and is too big to fuck with.
and finally we have the mechanic parts which resemble their alt mode.and again here the morphing wouldnt have worked.it would have been a cheap trick (just like the in the cartoon).but using all these detailed parts,you do get the impression that the walking robot is ready to become a car without using parts from thin parts.it gives tremendous realism.
so to sum up we have designs which can emote,can give the impression of mass and they can change flawlessly from one thing to another.well if this isnt a big success for the designers ,then what the fuck is it?the bulky,simplistic,cardboxes of the 80s?
and pls dont give me this shit of bay's audience.i am a mature,thinking human,i do love tf but i am also sensible enough to know when good decisions have been made.
and bay (whom i dont prefer as an action director but thats my taste) so far has delivered.accept it and live with that.
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HA! HA!
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from thin parts=from thin air.
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AND FIGHT!!!!
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Morning/Evening wherever you are! You have to admit, these TF TB's are absolute geek magnets!
You missed a lively one! -
Jun 18, 2007 7:28:36 AM CDT
This film is taking more than 2 hours of your life!
by theyreflockingthisway
It's taking days away from you - probably even more. You say you don't want to waste two hours seeing this, yet you spend much more than that on here complaining about it.
There are so many films I don't want to see but I don't spend all this time complaining about them. Maybe I'll make a comment after a review saying how I disliked something, but I wouldn't care any more than that.
This site is all about expressing your oppinion but if you're not going to watch it what's the point? No one cares to hear from the nerds who write off a film without seeing it yet still spend all their time complaining about it - it's called being ignorant. I'll respect the oppinion of people who have seen it, love or hate, but the rest of you can keep whining on deaf ears for all I care. -
Well I don't mean detail. Of course there would be a near infinite amount of detail. But by breaking the characters in so many random places you make them more vulnerable to breaking. They aren't as durable. Sure Blackouts Helicopter blades would chop the head off a human but against a transformer he's just going to break the blades...All the little pieces hanging off of Megatron, those fingertips,. Prime could snap in a second. How could these suckers fight one another without getting totally tangled up!?They couldn'tNow let's look at the REASON bay did this. He has said he did it because he wanted the characters to look interesting when the camera was focusing on a human. When a camera was focusing on a human he didn't want it to be one large block. So these alien robots are just adding extra unnecessary crap hanging off of their bodies that hinders their durability for the sake of being on screen with a human? Doesn't make sense and unrealistic, get it? Bay could have added tons of details while still retaining the character's original silhouettes.Instead he opted to make them look like piles of scrap and piss off the fans. Nice job mr long face.
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People need to understand that this is where we come to throw shit and blow off steam. Nothing personal.
Germany is cold and wet - and it's not beer; I'm at bloody work.
How's where you are? -
What a long strange trip it's been. I'm going to miss these talkbacks once the movie comes out.
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Pretty soon - if only for the sake of the TB's...
Mind you, once Watchmen details start coming in, THAT has potential.. -
It's better than TINO.
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Perhaps without Bay at the helm next time. Perhaps they'll go the Harry Potter route--keep the producer and swap directors each film. It would be fun to see varying directoral takes on the Transformers franchise. I'm just hoping that the first one is a minimumally offensive first step--a set up if you will. Also, I want to see something truly massive, i.e., an aircraft carrier transforming into a robot.
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Yack's right about the sunny part, but it's gonna get hot. Rickey dislikes the hot. Rickey listened to Al Roker give the weather report and then applied the Gold Bond extra medicated. Who the hell initiated this weather gabbery?
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Yack, so you won't be rolling around on the floor with me getting dirty today then? Just checking in before you trudge off to earn a crust? These TB's are like crack for nerds, eh? Me included!
Ricky; it'd be interesting to see a different director's take on it. And with each different director would come different howls of anger from different corners of nerd-dom!
As long as the trilogy was just that, with a linked story running throughout all three film. Three 'stand-alones' would be a bit disapopointing. -
FUCK YOU. Can we start expecting "Good for an October movie™"? And "Good for a Spring movie™"? If the movie is SHIT, who gives a fuck what season it hits during. Bay can suck a hobo's dirty street nuts. His films are shit, his sensibilities belong in a world where every movie is Top Gun, and the dead hookers are seriously pilling up in his back yard so his butler better get to steppin' and clean the shit up. DIE BAY.
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Do I REALLY have to explain that I was making a joke in the context of the TF film providing us with MASSIVE lively TB's?!
Joking aside though, I like what Ricky suggested. -
Heh. My point is, weren't there huge robots in the original cartoon? Wasn't there a base that transformed into a humongous robot? I think it was called "Enormous Prime" or something like that... I'm not asking for Unicron (in fact they need to keep him out of future sequels) but some HUGE robots would be fun, no? And hey, if Bay can deliver something like that, then why not? But as I said in a previous post, I would like to see them go the Harry Potter route and bring in different directors for each future TF film.
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So I can hop on these boards and see talkbackers seriously lose their shit once they announce that Waters is directing. Robots with beards indeed. Seriosuly though, just give me a changing list of TF directors and I'm a happy guy. And don't ever let go of ILM. What they seem to have done here looks pretty mindblowing. If this movie succeeds, it will because of ILM, not Bay.
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Although Bay can direct the shite out of an action sequence; if ILM hadn't pulled off the 'real' look of these robots, the film would have been fucked.
They might not look exactly like their G1 counterparts, but they look like they are real and interacting with all the 'live' elements of the film. -
..I think his name is Tidal Wave. Maybe from Amada. I have to agree that would be cool as fuck.
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What is the purpose? Its a crappy disguise cause every military knows where each aircraft carrier is at any given time. And what they have to have a bunch of hologram people running around on it? And for what? To take the tanks and shit across the ocean? So... these creatures can travel accross the galaxy no problem but travelling to the otherside of the ocean they need a giant boat? How fucking stupid! Bay is an idiot for dreaming that up.
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Oh.. its just an aircraft carrier, no worries, go about your business.
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I'm not defending or bashing Bay here, not until I see this movie, but who would have been a better director?
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http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5871
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From what I've seen so far, Dr Boll couldn't have done worse. At least Boll'd get Megan Fox topless. TINO needed a director like Kevin Munroe who did the recent TMNT film. He had enthusiasm for the Turtles and he knew how to be true to their roots and their characters and that came across in the film in spades.
If Bay did the Turtles he'd change them all. Raph would be an alligator, Don would be a frog and Mike would be a dinosaur. Just cuz! Then he'd give them leather jackets with flames painted on them, and the Shredder would only appear at the end but he'd make him an alien from another world just to be sure it had nothing to do with the source material. -
Steven Spielberg, Brad Bird, James Cameron, Ridley Scott (Prime pets a unicorn!), Gore Verbinski, heck even Tony Scott (Prime tortures Starscream with a cigarette lighter!).
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But none who would want the job. The question you need to ask is "who's a better director but would want to do a brainless summer action flick aimed at kids".Oh and thanks for pointing out Spielberg; since he's a producer and the rumours that he's had more 'hands on' than previously thought I'd say it was fairly safe on that count.
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I was really hoping that Bay would bring me on as a scriptwriter for the sequel. You fuckers are ruining this for me. Fine if not an aircraft carrier, how about a giant walking transforming base? Is that silly too?
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Depends what you want... a Tim Burton TF's would be interesting to see, but not, I imagine what the fanboys would like! Especially after Planet of the Apes...
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I know there's a lot of hate out there towards him, but I think he could've nailed this. We wouldn't have gotten all the Americana bullshit that Bay is sure to send our way. He would've boiled it down to its essence--a movie about walking talking robots. And the man knows how to film action scenes. Yes, he's kind of a poor man's Michael Bay, but I think he would've made a faithful Tranformers flick.
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Omega Supreme or Metroplex = base/city Hugeness. http://tinyurl.com/32hdpm
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save the transforming aircraft carrier for that flick
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a'la Bay-style shot http://tinyurl.com/2nm85m
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Damn I love Macross. Macross, not Robotech. http://tinyurl.com/32wua5
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Jun 18, 2007 1:23:27 PM CDT
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
by tehgreekhammer
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news07/070618c.php
The disappointing box-office of "Hostel: Part II" has upset quite a few, most notably its director Eli Roth who says on his blog that it will have an knock-on effect.
The most notable one will be a delay in his adaptation of Stephen King's "Cell" - "I am not directing Cell any time soon, and I most likely will take the rest of the year to write my other projects. Which means I wouldn't shoot until the spring and you wouldn't see a film directed by me in the cinemas until at least next fall."
He cites the infamous leaked pirate copy of the film as one of the reasons for the damaging box-office, especially internationally. Unlike other movies leaked online and taken with video cameras, "Hostel II" was notably a near DVD-quality unfinished work print.
He also adds that the R-rated horror genre is in serious jeopardy after several notable failures this year - "studios feel the public doesn't want them anymore, and so they are only putting PG-13 films into production. The only way to counter this perception is to get out there and support R-rated horror."
KEEP MAKING EXCUSES ELI!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -
http://tinyurl.com/2fej7p
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I am on page 4 of this script and I can't take it anymore..."Put your backs into it or we'll be chopping our way back to the states"
Wow, if someone wants to see this steaming pile of pooh- more power to them, they are the ones that have to sit through it, because it sure as hell ain't gonna be me.Transposeurs...below all your lowest expectations
"I'm bliiiiiiind!!!" - glasses flame and steam in the snow- vaseline jar drops with a thud leaving an impression in the snow...it is Michael Bay's autograph- cue theme music- Transposeurs more than you can take in with your eyes- Transposeurs- a once great franchise now despised-Autobots wage their battle to find the next Tom Hanks find the MacGuffin.... -
We warned you. It's terrible. To the last page. You're eyes will role out of your head several more times if you continue on. Suffer well, suffer well. Oh, but the action is so cool, even though you can't tell what's going on, I just know it's cool. That cancels out EVERYTHING else that is wrong with the movie. Or, you know, wait for the sequel. Cinephiles of today. Yikes....
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written right into the script? Classy.
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But the ACTION WAS BALLS TO WALL!!! HELL YEAH WAHOO!!!!I AM JAZZED!!!!I mean when BumbleBee changes the song on the radio...and then and then...in that clip when he is waving and shushing to the other autobots...oh my goodness...the range he showed...it was like I was watching Johnny Five all over again- Look out Netflix Que here comes Short Circuit 1 and 2!!!I wonder if Bonecrusher can skate backwards and weave in and out of small orange cones- can he do that one leg thing too?
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have happened upon many a family film written far, far better. They just struck out with this one. Hasbro should have demanded better.
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have happened upon many a family film written far, far better. They just struck out with this one. Hasbro should have demanded better.
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"one of the dogs falls through" ROTFLMAO
I am gonna laugh my ass off at this one when it is on cable, should HBO bump one of the Bad Boys movies out of rotation. This is going to be classic grade a US government issued cheese. I mean, this has "Commando" potential. Gymkata ain't got nothing on this piece. -
Bumblebee "right". The sans voicebox "speaking" via shit music is not funny. It's a cop out. They could have written some clever dialogue. Talking/explanation during a chase or whatever. A myriad of opportunities. Bay does action, not story. Instead it's all about Sam trying to get some. Wrong movie/property. Oh, but Megan is so hot, so it doesn't matter.
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I say, any lemmings that come along spewing their bile will only get answered in lines from the script
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At least you could see what was going on during the action scenes. Oh, but this is something we've never seen before. I guess that allows for shoddy execution since the tech is so impressive.
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ILM dug deep to get BB right, I mean Johnny Five was from the 80's and he couldn't show anger. He just furrowed his brows and his eyes turned all red and he talked in an angr....aw shit.
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Bumblebee "pisses" oil all over Baron Fink? Classic. Hilarious. Infantile.
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I've never posted on this site, but now I've got to be a part of it. I've read this entire talkback and have been completely amazed at what I'm seeing.
People are actually arguing about the lack of depth in a movie about ROBOTS IN DISGUISE AS CARS...based on a CARTOON and TOY LINE about ROBOTS IN DISGUISE AS CARS.
I watched the cartoon and owned a bunch of the toys. Sorry that I didn't read all the comics and bury my adolescent brain in the entire saga for two decades, but it never was a deep, powerful, meaningful cartoon. It was a cool cartoon that adolescent boys enjoyed as much as the toys that came with it.
I'm always amazed on this site when grown adults start attacking each other because every single vision in their head left over from childhood isn't completely replicated for them on the screen 20 years later.
No, Michael Bay is not an great director. No, his movies are not "deep". No, this movie won't be more than just explosions and crowd-pleasing effects to make the average summer movie-goer buy popcorn and giggle.
But, I hate to tell you this, the cartoon wasn't all that, either. I watched a bunch of them once this whole thing started. It was entertaining, sure...but not this deep, meaningful experience you remember.
I'll never understand how genre/comic fans like myself get so bent out of shape because these ENORMOUSLY budgeted movies aren't made exactly as envisioned in 20-year-old source material. It's like you're insulted that Hollywood doesn't make $150million movies for $30million worth of viewers...?!
I watch the Transformers cartoons and I smile. It entertains me for a while (including the animated movie, which isn't nearly as deep as people pretend it is) and then I move on with my life. The movie will have the same effect. If you're worried about shit like Megatron pieces that Optimus Prime would easily pull off in a reality that doesn't exist, or flames on a truck that apparently is (I'm told) too sophisticated for that, or where the "outer space" parts are located, you should probably just avoid this movie altogether.
And if you think the toys/cartoons/comics were so deep and impressive in the first place, you really should read more. It's still about ROBOTS who turn into CARS.
And there are MANY more shallow, plotless movies that you fanboys praise all the time. Don't act like you're suddenly above mindless fare just because your favorite robot lost his RayBans. -
Jun 18, 2007 2:22:14 PM CDT
Here's a few dollars Matrix, it'll give some more time
by 1178hunterbosser
with your daughter...I like you Sully , you're a funny guy, that's why I 'm going to kill you last.most action movies aspire to be the greatness that is Commando
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giggle snort gufaw yuk yuk
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Sometimes it feels good just to to let it all out, eh?
"Can I get 5 minutes without being tortured by your singing?" -
My first time posting on this site.
Still learning to do it and space things out.
Didn't mean to sound like I was shouting at everyone.
No attacks. Just wish everyone would calm down for a minute and stop going off on everyone for simply having a different opinion. -
Brings it out in all of us, apparently. 9^)
"What about you Lennox, you gotta perfect day?" -
Fuck the toys. Fuck the cartoon(s). Fuck the stupid animated movie. And fuck the 300+ comics. How about a movie with a decent plot or story? Serously. Forget that this is Transformers for a minute. Besides the visual effects, what else is there? If that's your idea of entertainment (shiny boom boom) then there is not discussion for you here, at least not with me.
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my post sounded like an aggressive frothing at the mouth attack. Sorry. I just don't like the story they wrote. They could have written it with those other than the ten year old boy in mind.
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Let's see. He has a baby girl that he hasn't seen yet, and the other guy wants his momma's home cooking....ah have to give the edge to the baby guy. Home cooking dude is toast....Wow! What a page turner, I wait with bated breath...is it...could it be....
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my eyes are welling up...I really feel an emotional connection with this guy...I care about him..because I have a daughter too, see....sniff sniff -c'mon Lennox you have to make it man- you have to make it!!!!!
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My apologies buddy. From what we've heard very little has been changed.
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Now I have to wait and see, but I am emotionally invested in Lennox so we better come back. Let's see what that goofy nutball Sam is like. WHo plays him by the way? He is just so damn likable- and did I mention funny too? I hear he's the next Tom Hanks.
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No, I get your point. I see what you mean. But I haven't seen the movie yet, so I can't trash it or praise it. I just think the nit-picky shit is stupid. If you want to argue about it being plotless, that's fine. But there are plenty of movies lacking plot that we all love, for various reasons, over the past 30 years or so. I'm not interested in reading scripts online (I actually like to see movies without knowing too much in advance)or going apeshit over spoilers. So, I can't tell you how shitty the plot is, whether it works or not, or what didnt' work. I'll chime in when I see the flick. But my problem isn't with people who wish for a better story or plot in their movies. My problem is with the nitpicky shit about flames on a truck, or "where'd the outer-technology go?" or "how come they don't have their cool sunglasses or boxy-look?" or any number of things that don't matter in the long run. The average movie-goer (Cue the mean remarks from people about the average movie-goer is stupid) is NOT going to obsess over what kinda engine BumbleBee has or whether or not it's from Cybertron. That's not a "Stupid movie-goer", it's everyone except the die-hard fans...and, believe it or not, it's their movie, too. But, He who Cannot be Named, you and I are okay. I get what you're saying....perhaps I'll agree when I see the flick.
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this is THE shit my friend. I see what all of the love is about now.man, have I misjudged, how could I have been so stubborn...we have ice, we have desert, we have space, we have city...it's incredible. truly only one man could have brought this together. I see why Spieldberg said "Transformers is gonna blow your ass!"
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take out with the sliding up crotch shot we keep seeing in the trailers? Is it Blackout? Ironhide drives Lennox home to see his baby. sniff, sniff. I love how easily Bumblebee dispatches Brawl. Yeah, Combaticons are pussies like that. So much for Bruticus and Devastator in the sequels.
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Cool. I'll look out for your posts once the movie hits. Be well.
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Supposedly right now. There is a blog at:
http://darktowermovie.blogspot.com -
I'm sold.Spike...err...Sam Witwicky- you have my vote- save us all you nutty bastard, save us all!!!!
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...but he had a baby that he had never seen.... and good ol' Ironhide drove him home! That is swell and atypical goodness if you ask me. Autobots #1 Those awful mean no appreciation for sentient being destroying Decepticons. I hope they lose all over the place.
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Rube Goldber....um...er...ahem..I mean ILM really took it to the max. They even talked about nano technology. That's science stuff to you and me.
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...he has a machine gun in his hand pointing upward as he writhes in pain and squeezes off some rounds as he dies. (action movie heroic military type death rule #1; reference: see Carl Weathers in Predator)
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Must be in slow motion.
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All expended cartridges must eject towards camera. Bonus is awarded if you catch a lens flare.
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If impaled, the soon to be deceased must either a) cough or b) trickle blood from the side of mouth. At which time the soon to be deceased now becomes deceased. Either side is acceptable for blood trickle.
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the mark of quality filmmaking. Predator was a damn fine testosterone ridden action flick. Damn fine. "You're ghostin' us, motherfucker. I don't care who you are back in the world, you give away our position one more time, I'll bleed ya, real quiet. Leave ya here. Got that?"
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Brilliant in Commando as well. "You scared muthafucka?! Cause the green beret's gonna kick you big ass!!!"ok I set it up for ya...and now you take it on home, my friend
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The most pointless thing in Ghost Rider was that scene.
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Kim Possible cartoons are way to boxey anyways. That show should be reinvented and "cool-ized"- I mean it's just a kids cartoon designed to sell toys. Maybe they can add a CG bald rat too. That would be a nice touch for the pebbles eating overweight wisecracking online gaming super boy genius that has computer hacks for every system. It would show he has a connection to living things. I mean who doesn't like pets?! You can count on him in a pinch too, I'll bet.
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Jun 18, 2007 3:40:29 PM CDT
"Some people around here think you're a security risk..
by 1178hunterbosser
Don't prove me wrong!"
Oh Margaret...ooops I mean, Maggie. You, my lady, are a rebel. I am gonna keep my eye on you- you buck the system and tell it like it is. You've got MOXIE, you've got SPUNK!!!! -
And right now I am very hungry.
I can't believe this macho bullshit. These guys eat too much red meat. How'd I do? I'm rusty to be sure, but I watched the flick ad nauseum when I was in fifth grade. Then Aliens came along.... -
Talk about a brilliant yet simple robot design. Tightness.
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I loved the punch sound effects in Commando. Only movie that has better is in Raiders in Marions bar.
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so cool and unrealistic
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my daughter loves it too, that and Spirited Away.
Bird made that bot look great, really cool when he gets pissed and turns into a weapon. His omnibot in the Incredibles is flawless. -
*sigh* My daughter's not into Spirited Away quite yet, but she does love Totoro.
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I say bypass him, he was season 3 Rodimus era. (although that was a standout episode- really cool animation in that one- they made skylynx pretty cool in that ep, if I remember) Bring on Alpha Trion and the key to vector sigma! Bust him out in the Mauve and Chartruse duds sporting the white robotic fu man chu. and while we are at it bring on Alleta One too.
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if you want to see bots mugging.
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ha ha couldn't resist. I so hate that stupid phrase.
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Vi-bra-tor
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I say nay to all of that. At least for live action purposes. I'm just a Don Figueroa fan. My favorite Transformers artist. Pat Lee, Mark Brooks and Jae Lee please my eyes too.
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Raiders- bar seen when Indy and the Nepalese dude are fighting and both blast the dude with the machine gun.
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I wouldva run with it. Tell him Air Razor and Black Arachnia too. But only if they have 6000 individual transformations going on and staggered them like the house in the briefcase bit from Tex Avery.
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http://tinyurl.com/358krb
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Don't ever speak ill of Kim Possible. Ever. Again.
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"I aint got time to bleed" and you call yourself a predator fan.
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These bots have so many transformations and doo dads pistinos pumping doomaflichers twitching servos rotating and what not- it takes them like 10 minutes to Transform and when you think its going to stop it just keeps on going. (ala Leslie Nielsen in the Naked Gun when he is taking a piss with hi mic on.) Dude watching it happen notices how long it is taking and just runs away. Heroic theme music bed for transformation runs out and has to start again.
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Why couldn't the Autobots be looking for the key to that on Earth instead of a fucking pair of glasses?
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beep beep de beep beep- My daughter loves that show. I was using it to illustrate a point. And the Transposeurs totally rips Kim Possible off.
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then they transform into Jack in the boxes. DUH! C'mon man , get with the program. We got Kleenex's buy in. BRuhahahaha
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...but he falls in the ice crack on page 3...That was a good storyline (heart of cybertron)and could have worked too. Megs got drunk on Energon and passed out. Brilliant.of course those a-hole writers knew about that because they were fans, ya know- they have geek creds out the yin yang.
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Cool. Methinks I need to perouse some tradepaperbacks.
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Looks like Memflix got his job back. Sort of. www.memflixbeyond.com
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I cannot believe I omitted him. A fine TF artist as well.
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you know the one with the elevator doors and they open and blood comes out- well this time the doors open and bullshit flows, I mean cows toppling all over each other- a torrent of bullshit. Like no other flood of pooh you have ever seen.
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837 -
"From the get-go, all of the producers did their homework and knew that making a Transformers™ movie meant honoring a much beloved franchise backed by a strong base of devotees, many of whom had lifelong ties to the characters." If only that were true. Fail. Try again.
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Any transformer fan worth there salt knows that the Autobots and decepticons were built by the quintessons. The Autobots were built for the expressed purpose of manufactoring, Female bots could have been made for planets were women where the dominate species or modeled after such planets. as for beards and mustaches before season 3 the only bot to have a beard was alpha trion this could be used a mark to distinguish his age and wisdom as far as the Junkions there cultural reference stems from television signals and they are mechanically inclined enough to rebuild ultra magnus from a pile of scrap. So if they decided they wanted beards then mo power to em. Now my memory aint what it used to be but I dont think I've ever seen anyone pop the hood of a autobot and find actual car parts that befuddles me. Other then a actual car interior including a steering wheel there was nothing that resembled the interior workings of a car.
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he got his bonnnet popped in "Make Tracks".
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who said that Bullshit.
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that article- I couldn't cut and paste just one part- it would have been the whole article. I mean just bold and brash lies. Oh and by the way Mr.don't answer the critics- just take a snort and it will all be okay...all will be okay...you got a 92 for armegeddon...don't let them see you cry....that's right who loves ya...you do that's right...
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The Berg claiming he's read the comics. Hard for me to believe that he is a fan of the comics and then produces this trash. I guess it's all about the toys to him as well. He comics are teeming with personality. Moreso than the beloved cartoon. I call liar, liar pants on fire. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. The script is still shit and insulting to the franchise. Phate, here's the article again. http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
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Jun 18, 2007 5:18:29 PM CDT
Bay sounds like a prick on set from those interviews
by hewhocannotbenamed
Shocker! Frat boy indeed.
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"The Generation One robots were very blocky which would have been like using the unarticulated marshmallow man from ‘Ghostbusters.’ Our Optimus Prime® has 10,108 parts, each of which move."
yeah blocky like a soft marshmallow- good analogy, dufuswoo hoo, moving part-do tell- show me more- maybe just maybe they were blocky because it was an 52 episode a year animated show and the animators needed to complete a 21 minute show and couldn't spend minutes on a single transformation, you knob. Let's see your Transposeurs on a 21 minute daily limited animation show. Yeah, take that long face!
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“Our goal was always to be true to the original spirit behind the Transformers™,” says di Bonaventura. “You never want to disappoint the people who really care about the franchise if only because it translates to a larger audience and negativity spreads. Besides, we would never want to alienate our core fan base; it’s like alienating your family.”
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"Any transformer fan worth there salt knows that the Autobots and decepticons were built by the quintessons"In the cartoon they were made by the quintessons. Not in the comic. They were the creations of demi-god Primus who, after being trapped in this dimension, formed himself into cybertron, populated his planet with intellegent robots and placed his essence in the matrix which is why it was the ONLY thing capable of destroying Unicron. Sorry, when you make definitive arguments like that you simply prove that Transformers is a fucked up franchise and there are MANY difference between the incarnations of G1 than you lead alot of non-fans to believe.
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They started appearing when 80's womens lib was the hip thing to promote. Don't read too much into it.
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Where "The Real Optimus Prime" steps on Micheal Bay, Now I would like to add to that dream, by afterwards he says, "My Bad."
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in Season 3. He was a little guy and apparently he made the Quints. Called Primal something or other. 20 years since I have seen it, sorry.
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regulating Comic book knowledge from Cartoon knowledge sorry about that. Maybe even though you support this movie you can still explain from a comic book view the neccessity for Female autobots.
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That would be a laugh riot. Maybe Ironhide can backfire like a fart too...
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I can honestly say I've never seen that episode EVER and a wikipedia search confirms that he never made an appearance in the show. He was a lone creation of Simon Furman and, as such, would never have graced our screens.Fact is that while comic and cartoon share alot of the same elements there are many many fundamental differences. The prime example being that the cartoon offered no real continuity and was continually showing stories which contradicted previous episodes. I think there were 3 stories which all depicted different origins for the constructicons.
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Which sounds right, didn't Simon Furman pen some of those stories, I know he did alot of cartoons after Transformers, notably X-Men Evolution and some other dreck...
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Other than an 80's womens lib origin. As I recall the only female autobot in the comic was arcee and she was included AFTER the movie and even then very rarely.As far as the TV show goes, I suspect that there were either concern from old boys in the board room that the show had an underlying Homosexual tone OR alternatively, the board was invaded by a short haired, bead wearing, CND lesbian who demanded instant changes in the format to reflect the opposite sex.
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Other than an 80's womens lib origin. As I recall the only female autobot in the comic was arcee and she was included AFTER the movie and even then very rarely.As far as the TV show goes, I suspect that there were either concern from old boys in the board room that the show had an underlying Homosexual tone OR alternatively, the board was invaded by a short haired, bead wearing, CND lesbian who demanded instant changes in the format to reflect the opposite sex.
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Micheal Bay,Spieldberg, et al. supports the Transformers 20 freaking year legacy and mythos of the franchise. Any show of support of this shitter is purely sardonic in nature. Now to attempt to answer your question, I don't know. the first girl was a ninja bot who kicked Prime's ass, then there was Prime's girlfriend Alleeta One, but she bought it back when he was orion pax, then there was Arcee- and then Beast Wars had Black Arachnia and Air Razor, then Beast Machines had Black Arachnia and Botanica... I guess they just did it for diversity and to inject new personalities. Probably all marketing based to get the girls interested.
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The movies AllSpark cube thingy is a representation of 'The Matrix'. Why I can't understand why they didn't just call it the matrix; probably some fucking ludicrous copyright law and Warner Bros there, it at least lends the object some importance.
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"Call of the primitives" that's it!! Check your Season 3 box for that episode synopsis. I have Seasons One and Two but just could not bring myself to buy season 3. I could be wrong though, I am going off of memory.
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Yes there was a episode where it shows that the constructicons where corrupted on cybertron and there was a episode that leads you to believe they where made here on earth, but theres a flashback in season three where they show the constructicon making megatron. This is the worst plothole in the series.
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who said he built Unicron I vaguely remember that episode.
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http://tinyurl.com/2gajgb
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That's Primacon. Totally different character and is in supposedly responsible for building Unicron. Close but not the same; although it is an absolutely stunning example of how once again the cartoon rewrites the origin story.
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That's Primacon. Totally different character and is in supposedly responsible for building Unicron. Close but not the same; although it is an absolutely stunning example of how once again the cartoon rewrites the origin story.
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the blew it with the multiple constructicons origins. Personally, I liked the one where they were friends of Omega Supreme and then they fucked him over.
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It appeared in the list as a double post and now it's disappeared...hmmm...Anyways, you corrected it so i needn't type it all again.Phategod, yeh ok so there's TWO constructicon origins and ONE paradox. Cool Huh.My love for the comic originated because it did have continuity, it always mentioned the matrix, (which in the cartoon was hardly mentioned until the movie), it had the best origin stories and it was EPIC. With the exception of the odd 2 parter episode like Megatrons Master Plan, there was no real scope to the series. That's why i looked to the comic.Oh and the cartoon rendition of Headmasters sucks michael bays cock in comparison the comic version which was mega fucking cool AND was the first time we got to see SPIKE in the comic, up to then it had been his brother Sam, although they never mentioned Spike either..odd
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Oh and let me correct the comic fact above, he wasn't called sam in the comic; he was called Buster.
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they were printed magazine size, but on newsprint. I remember the art was good. One cover had the Predacons on it- of course Magnus was getting his ass whipped. Man, that was a looooong time ago.
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*UK law that doesn't allow the word spike to be in media.
I say this due to whole Teenage muntant Hero turtles thing. -
instead of "Beast Wars"
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In the Fortress Maximus storyline, hastily added to address the toy which had him bundled; despite their glaring differences between the cartoon Marvel were still obliged to pimp Hasbros' merchandise.In short though, no, it's not illegal to say, print or think Spike in the UK. Ninja was a bad word in the 80's but not anymore.
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my work here is finished...for today...but I'll be back...DAMN YOU MICHAEL BAY!!!!!I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries. Now go away sneeviling english pig dogs or I shall taunt you a second time...
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nice to speak with someone who is really well read on the subject.
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Sorry I had to do that.
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Phate, I'm working on a full character animation of cartoon Prime right now, I think I'll include your Michael Bay scene you "scripted" above.
Eyeball, my Prime is based mostly on the MP Prime, partly because he's perfect, and partly because it was easy to take orthographic photos of him to model from. I tossed a biped inside him and applied a few stock .bip mocap files to him. Guess what, he moves perfectly and you'll see just how perfectly soon. I also built another version with a custom rig that fully transforms. SUH-WEET! -
Blockbuster says screw you, Harry!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19289649/wid/11915829?GT1=10056 -
I expected and desired updates. Just not shit ones. The iconic look fell by the wayside save for OP's face. That's strictly my opinion. I keep getting told the more solid designs just wouldn't work. OK. My gripe is not the designs.
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Michael Bay's method of directing is if the shot is on 2 seconds or longer, it's too long, and there has to be a cut. I dare anyone to see Transformers and count the number of cuts in the film.
I tried to do this with Armageddon, but failed (and never finished the movie). -
Look HWCNBN don't dignafy this with a answer we've been trough this too many times If this guy wants to argue the point scroll up and looks at the discussion between Yackbaker Superninja and Pawprint. Someone wake me when they make the Movie about this Talkback. Denzel Washington or Avery Brooks for Phategod1 & 2
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http://tinyurl.com/2oedg5
Here's a still shot of my Prime model, rigged, posed, and imposing. Someone tell me again why this wouldn't have worked on the big screen minus the cell shading. -
I got to wait till I get home from work.
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hey guys I created a blog where I intend to keep updating the page with common arguments about the Transformers film direction so I don't have to argue the shit out of the same arguments every time. If you think of other common arguments you can think of post it in the comments so I can add them in there. http://tinyurl.com/2wlm8l
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Prepare to flame me all you want but is Shai Labouf Hollywoods newest Wigger.
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set to another. Sometimes it seems as though he’s making it up on the spot......" The Late great Rick James said it best "Cocaine is a hell of a drug"
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so they can actually have something to oppose. Because it appears they can't even justify the film on its own merits - LAME. Stop making stuff up and repeating it, ad nauseum, all it does it make you look dishonest.
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on Cybertron. They were raiding Decepticon supplies, and they were female counterparts of the main Autobots. Elita-1 did not die early on, she stayed on Cybertron in their all-female enclave. There was an episode where she saves Prime with her ability to stop time.
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If you go with the supernatural origin, then their god could've create male and female. If you go with the Quintesson version, they could've created male and female since they wanted a slave race. Also, I always thought it was weird that the planet that first gets eaten in the movie has robot kids running around seconds before their planet becomes Unicron's lunch. I like the Quintesson version better for TF, at least then they are built that way regardless if they procreate and it requires little explanation.
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I'll take a guess with one word:ArticulationHow does your Prime move in a 3D environment? Do his upper arms "cheat" when moving across his chest? How about his hips? Where are the joints there? Where do all the mystery panels come from when he transforms from the truck? Do the panels "cheat" by bending (like in the show and comic art)? Does he have ankles? How do they function in a box design? Does your Prime walk like stacked boxes on stilts?Those are just some of the questions I believe ILM and Hasbro addressed when creating their computer models. I'm pretty sure they tried exactly the same thing you did here. However, they discovered that for realism's sake, they needed many more points of articulation.BTW: It's good to see you on the boards. Hope all is well on your end.
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I'll hopefully be going to the L.A. Film Festival screening on the 27th. Is anyone else going?
NOTE: You have to buy a pass on the LA Film Festival site in order to get in. -
You'll blow your load when you find out who kills him Easy money for a sequel is Galvatron, and soundwave.
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Grammar Attack #476
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1546 total posts !!!
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Apparently the screening is officially sold out.
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"Sorry. I just don't like the story they wrote. They could have written it with those other than the ten year old boy in mind."..
So who exactly is this film for then?! -
You see, this is my point; you're happy enough to try and justify the existence of female robots, which, if we face facts is utter nonsense. There IS no reason for female robots to exist, and robots procreating sexually is ridiculous.
However, you have issues with the fact that a robot disguising itself as a car has an engine?!
Someone even justified the robot car having a car interior, but had difficulty with it having an engine. WTF?! If the engine is considered superfluous and unrealistic, then what purpose does the steering wheel serve?! Does the robot require steering?!
We might as well get right down in the weeds and ask how does the robot see when it's in car mode?!
What I am saying is, you seem willing to nitpick at the smallest of details in Bay's film, but let blatantly silly things pass from the cartoons. How am I being 'dishonest'?! -
Creating a 3D model for use in a movie or a game is a fairly complex process. While your model meets the requirements of looking like Prime it doesn't have any of the necessary dependencies or attributes to make it move naturally.The thing to remember in 3D modelling and animation is that there are always dependencies that effect how your model behaves in its environment, such as weather and gravity. Prime with the whole cab as a chest doesn't work as a model because it simply wouldn't move or behave properly. It's top heavy and and when animated would be restricted so as not to lean too far backwards or forwards so it didn't fall over. The rigid chest prevents full tilt and motion of the neck. Your prime would never be able to look down at his feet and see people stood under him; much like a fat man who can't see his dick when he looks down.You're also missing a complex skeletal system. IK is a very complex piece of mathematics and the whole routine is based on A should be at location X when B is at location Y; thats a very simplified explanation but contains the general gyst of it. Prime as you renderend him doesn't have the shoulders, hips, elbows, knees or wrists to be animated properly. Yes you could forcibly move in certain directions BUT metal doesn't behave in the same way as say flesh or fabric does; it won't, by design, flex back into its natural position after its been deformed. You could make it behave differently but then again it'd look crap.I'm not being deliberately harsh with you Hairy, I'm just pointing out the problems you face when trying to bring those cartoons and comics to life. Like I said in one of the original Talkbacks, if they coulda done it, they woulda done it (with afew changes here n there), but it's just not possible.
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Why would Optimus Prime need to look down at his feet? To be more like a human? I though Bays goal was to make them look more alien
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Should I dignify that with an answer? So, Optimus Prime would never look down to say, see a human or look at something on the floor? Maybe I should ask why YOU look down at the floor or towards your feet. Take that answer, apply it to your question.
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Like a shy little girl?
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Stops you from trailing dog shit or something else through the house on your nice carpets. Point is, he CAN look down if he wanted to and you'd think you'd want a 25foot transforming robot that could at least move his head in every direction.
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Fairies.
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and exclaims "My bad". Damn you ILM!!!!I thought you had it down pat. He has 10,000 parts and they all move - so he just got dizzy and misstepped. Then he grabbed a ladder and turned to the left and hit bumblebee then he turned to the right and hit Ironhide. It was madcap hilarity. That witty young Tom Hanks whipper snapper delivered the punchline with impeccable timing too, "My dad is gonna kill me" then he made the Macauly Culkin face. Oh boy, this movie is gonna be so great!!!! Who the hell needs the marx bros.
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http://tinyurl.com/2vn837Laying it on kind of thick, eh? Well, I am gonna use the debullshitifier 3000 and translate what is really being said...ready? First up, ol' big ears himself, the creme de la creme Stev-o Speildberg:
“I’ve been one of the biggest fans of Transformers™ since they first came out,” says executive producer Steven Spielberg. “I’m not talking about buying the toys for my kids. I’m talking about reading the comic books and buying the toys for myself. I’d play with them at home with my kids, but I’m the one who was enthralled with them,” he recalls. “I was a collector and I always thought the Hasbro toy line would one day ‘transform’ into a big summer movie.”
ok, debullshitifier, do your stuff...did I mention it has over 10,000 parts and they all move?
Transwha? Who the fuck are you to question me?! I am Spielberg! I could buy you. I have a meetings with heads of state. A whole fucking country contracted me- have you heard of the fucking president of China!! I am planning the olympics for chrissakes! By the way I am also trying to get Hillary elected. I have no time for this. Look if it can't make me tons of money then piss off, I don't care what you do with it, just make tons of cash. Just whore the fucker out. We'll find some retard to direct, it won't matter. -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
Spielberg was not the only one to think so; several of the film’s producers had the same impulse. While producer and former studio executive Lorenzo di Bonaventura and Hasbro COO Brian Goldner were talking about possible movies ideas for Transformers™ and other Hasbro franchises, Tom DeSanto was approaching Don Murphy to form a partnership in hopes of making his own Transformers™ project. When all was said and done, the core creative force behind the film is a virtual who’s who of Hollywood producing royalty: Steven Spielberg, director Michael Bay, di Bonaventura (“Shooter”), DeSanto (the “X-Men” series), Murphy (“Natural Born Killers”) and Ian Bryce (“Saving Private Ryan”).ok, debullshitifier is really full up this time...hard to....turn...it....on...ugh- got it
Money? huh? Where? Unclaimed franchise? Where where where? I lost my ass on Leaugue of Extraordinary Gentleman, I need some scratch. Uh oh, we have those two losers on board...this could really suck we better spread the risk and get some more producers in here, because people care about who is producing. We tell them that for every trailer, so they will remember. See, that is brand recognition muthafuckas! -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
From the get-go, all of the producers did their homework and knew that making a Transformers™ movie meant honoring a much beloved franchise backed by a strong base of devotees, many of whom had lifelong ties to the characters.Wow! The debullshitifier is rocking like an old washing machine-smoke is coming out too...I think it's.....gonna....phew- ok, it took it. What the hell are these things called again? What the fuck is a fan- sounds like a pain in the ass to me. Can we change the name to something more spectaculiscious like "Giant Robots that are Coming from Bad Ass World and are Really Big and Shit"?- throw in a cuss word so it will seem more hip and street....Ol' Billy said it way back when and it still rings true today: "What's in a name, bitches?". -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
“Transformers™ has a rich, established history that inspired all of us,” says di Bonaventura. “It’s no wonder we each had the same brainstorm; each of us was attracted to its mythology.ok DBS3000 translate and spit out...Yeah , it had a long history and shit, but it was stupid and this braintrust totally knows better. Did I mention I'm rich, too? -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
“The hardest aspect of overcoming people’s assumptions about robots – even the fans’ – was that until we could show footage, no one could really understand what this particular movie is all about,” he says. “So we focused on the work at hand: developing a human story, finding the best cast and producing the most exciting effects we could. The rest would take care of itself.”Garbage in...I already answered this fucking question. We know what you want better than you do. Now piss off and go buy a ticket. Take what you get and be glad you got it, geeeeezus! Can someone get me a Mike's Hard Cranberry, anyone? -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
DeSanto swears that he’s dreamnt of making a movie about Transformers™ since he was a kid, but it didn’t occur to his partner Murphy until years later as he was strolling through the Comic-Con convention in San Diego. “I was walking around, looking at a lot of properties and franchises, and all of a sudden it hit me,” Murphy says. “The kids of the ‘80s have grown up and now they probably want to see movies based on all this stuff around me, all their beloved characters and stories. Oh my God, this makes perfect sense.”Debullshitifier3000 is chugging right along nowWe were almost flat fucking busted, I mean I almost had to do my own laundry...anyways we were trying to think of a successful franchise to complete rape and destroy and most of all make into our own image. We wereout cruising for chicks and then it hit us. Well, actually Don bumped (err..collapsed) the table and ruined some poor kids entire collection of these robot things. Now what were they called? ah, doesn't matter, I digress... Poor Trypticon was just no match for his big ass. So, that's how we got acquainted with the franchise. Funny story, really. Oh, and did I mention that it is also all 100% true. -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837Murphy also knew that DeSanto, whom he’d met when the two worked together on “Apt Pupil,” was not only a huge fan of the toy franchise, he was a walking encyclopedia of comic book information. DeSanto, who owns over 35,000 comic books, called Murphy to partner on the project as Murphy had a previous relationship with Hasbro. ok- one sec, I have to let the methane vent, quite a build up in there. believe me you don't wanna be around this Debullshitifier3000 when it has a blow out...Did I mention how much I love Archie comics?
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http://tinyurl.com/2vn837“Transformers™ was something I loved and cared about as a kid,” says DeSanto. “It’s hard to get these movies made, so you better love what you do because otherwise you’re in for a few dreary years trying to make the idea a reality.”looks like another easy one for the DSB3000 Why do you keep asking me about that?!!We are not talking about goddamn electricity here- I could give two shits about what is on top of the electric pole. What does that have to do with anything...For fucks sake I am making a robot movie. Damn, you are so dense, HELL-OOO, McFly!!! giggle snort- Steve will love that one...
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http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
When DreamWorks told us that Steven loved the idea, I couldn’t believe it,” DeSanto recalls. “As a kid from New Jersey, to hear that Steven Spielberg liked the same robots, I just thought, ‘how did I get here?’ The rest is a dream; it’s just been great.”Debullshitifier3000 responds...oh wait there is no response, could this have actually been the truth? I dunno, I'll have to check the settings. whoops sorry, false alarm, says here you were a dirt rancher from Troy, Alabama.
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http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
“Hasbro and Paramount were very excited about the process of putting another successful product into live-action format,” di Bonaventura says, “and of course Transformers™ came up because its one of Hasbro’s crown jewels and a brand Brian believes has great potential.DBS3000 results...Money!MoneyMoneyMoneyMoneyMoneyMoney!!!! -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
“Brian is understandably protective of every franchise at the company,” di Bonaventura explains. “For that reason he wanted to be involved as a producer, an idea I readily embraced because Brian really knew the brand and has a lot to offer.”DBS3000 says-Uh, they said they would not play with us unless they got to be captain of the team, and since the bat, ball, and gloves were their's... -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837
Ultimately DreamWorks Pictures and Paramount Pictures chose to partner on the film. In previous years their collaborative efforts have yielded such successful films as “Dreamgirls,” “War of the Worlds,” “Collateral,” and “Saving Private Ryan.”DBS3000 does its thang...ah yeah Steven Spielberg met with Steven Spielberg and they decided that Steven Spielberg would be involved. -
http://tinyurl.com/2vn837Screenwriter John Rogers, a comic book writer and enthusiast, was asked to put together an initial draft of the script. “The nice folks at DreamWorks know I’m a geek; I make my living as a professional 12-year-old,” jokes Rogers, “So considering I was assembling and disassembling Optimus Prime® in their offices, I really had no defense when they asked me if I was interested. I was very eager; it was a great opportunity. The only real direction I was given was: write a human story.”DBS3000 gives a shout out to Computron and says "Datum"-John Rogers was this dude we got for dirt cheap. I mean he would lick an ashtray to get into hollywood and probably did worse....but then again he is a writer- har har- So what if his script sucks, we are gonna change it to what we want anyways. Remember..more cliche's mean more box office...keep it simple...this film is all about the visuals...you can and will be replaced.
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Uh... I don't want to be harsh, but get a life. Who are you going to convince? No one is even going to read all of your posts, let alone follow the links. Okay, maybe two people will.
Hairy Nutsack: I like your effort on trying to make a 3D Prime, but if you want to see how it would work with real people, photoshop in some real people. Even without cell shading it would be kind of weird.
And if anyone wants a G1 exact duplicate, except with no human involvement and completely taking place on Cybertron or in space, lobby for a TMNT-like CG animated movie. It might be kind of cool, but it doesn't belong in traditional live-action format. -
to me which I never made to begin with, maybe we can have a discussion but until then I really don't see the point.
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http://tinyurl.com/2vn837Rogers’ initial three plot lines eventually evolved into the rich, textured story that is “TRANSFORMERS,” crafted by the talented team of Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci. Prior to passing the torch, Rogers spent an inordinate amount of time monitoring different Transformers™ web sites. “When I moved onto another project, I left Alex and Bob to take the heat,” he jokes. “The fan base is so huge you could devote an entire section of your life to answering their questions. These people care. No one knows that more than the writers.”DBS3000 chug chug chug...says Well, I got canned because my script was not "sucky" enough, so they brought these two volunteers in to lie to the fans,it bought time as the script was further simplified and all big words were removed. Plus they got to troll ah..ahem...er...surf the web a whole bunch. that part was cool. You gotta make your bones, they say...In fact I think they are still used in that capacity today.
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you might even win a ticket to the Transformers.....I better you can't wait to click it now....
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that the draft script almost seemed tailor made for Bay. As in, draw Bay formula, insert Transformers.
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url removed at Frostyxc's request
Rogers’ favorite Transformer™ is Sound Wave “just for attitude and sheer crankiness,” with Optimus Prime® running a close second “for moral clarity.”I like the one that has a helmet and turns into some sort of vehicle- yeah that one. He's cool. -
DBS3000 shorted out....Good thing I choose HD-DVD
I like the one that has a helmet and turns into something else. what's its name...yeah, that one..something "-or". He's cool.
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http://tinyurl.com/2vn837- url returned in honor of TBer M-O-MA longtime aficionado of science fiction, Spielberg was recently inducted into the Science Fiction Hall of Fame. “The reason I love science fiction so much is because it’s the only genre that allows you unlimited access to your imagination.”DBS3000 what do you have for me......ok- we have a first. This is the first line of truth- eureka! Wait there is one more thing coming out.... Plus I have made a shitload of cash from the genre
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the fans for story ideas over at Murphy's message boards pretty much says it all about their level of understanding of the property and also their talent as creative people.
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might still be applicable.
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no url on the clipboard this time- sorry“Michael is the perfect director for “TRANSFORMERS,” says Spielberg. “He really had a feel for this material; he had a focused vision for what this franchise could look like as a movie. Michael had all the freedom he needed to breathe life into the humans, the Decepticons® and the Autobots®.”Oh baby this is a good one- the Debullsitifier3000 is humming.... A fucking trained monkey could direct this picture and make money. After the box office disaster that was The Island, I could get this Bay asshole for cheap. Plus I didn't have to pay him all in cash...if ya know what I mean...nudge nudge grin grin wink wink sniff sniff
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"Transformers will blow your ass"hmmm.much sputtering and clanking (like that soap car in Willy wonka)...ok we have a result-
I hate fucking kids, but you little bastards make me a lot of money. there are these annoying broke ass "fans" that are trying to ruin our propaganda campaign. So that means I have to be out here acting like I am interested in talking to you assholes- this fucking leather jacket is hot- I'm sweating...am I sweating?!!oh for fuck's sake! Look just go buy a ticket already, my flight leaves for Bejing in 20 minutes. I don't have time for this shit, if that jack ass bay weren't such a nacassictic prick I would have him out here doing this... Now beat it, before I have you sold to a brothel. -
url withheld
Without much thought, Bay initially dismissed Spielberg’s offer, but when he realized that Spielberg was serious about the project and wanted to act as a hands-on producer, Bay relented and agreed to take a trip to Rhode Island to visit Hasbro’s home base. After meeting with Goldner, Bay caught the bug and he swears it took him all of three seconds to change his mind.go DBS3000 go...Without much thought Steven selected Michael Bay to be the director. Hasbro didn't give a shit and long as they made lots of money. Bay tried to act cool and pretend he didn't want the gig, but sucking cock under the bleachers at the old high school was getting old-all of the sudden he got very itchy and sweaty...he knew right then he needed a fix...ahem...a transformers fix. -
if you want to know the source look at the other 18 posts with the url“Walking down the hallway where they created the Monopoly® game, Mr. Potato Head® and G.I. Joe® – everything from my childhood – I knew this was a company that took their toys seriously,” Bay says. “Meeting with Brian, who’s probably more manic than I am, if that’s possible, really started me thinking. He’s wild, he’s an absolute zealot about these action figures and he loves his business; his enthusiasm was infectious.”here it comes DBS3000 it's a demon...Stumbling down the hallway in a half drunken stupor and still reeling from the effects of the eight ball 14 hours ago, I realized that this toy company is a business. and it makes toys. In fact they love their toys and know lots about them. There were big toys small toys. They were very knowledgable toy dudes. I think I like toys now too, but don't tell anyone because I am really cool. where was I? oh yeah...But the one thing I remember is that glass table in Toy dude's office and the rolled up C-note hyah hyah hyah
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Bay along with producers di Bonaventura and Ian Bryce were put through their paces and attended “Transformers™ School.” (DeSanto and Murphy had taken the course on a previous excursion to Hasbro.
DeBullShitter3000 what have you got?
The gave us some brochures but we threw them away. I can't read anyways.
“That’s actually what they call it,” Bay explains. “They take you through the lore and the different incarnations of the comic books and the toys – kind of an overview of Transformers™ history – the brand, and the characters. The scope of it just blows you away, and the first thing that struck me was the idea of robots transforming at 80 miles an hour on a freeway. Right then and there I was sold on making this idea work.”DBS3000 rolling rolling rolling ....and we have an answer Yeah they spent a long time explaining all of this shit. I just ignored, I'm gonna do what I want anyway. I asked them if I could have strippers in it. You know it ain't one of my films without strippers...heh heh heh So we ditched the suits because they aren't cool and I am. I fucking left and there was a lot of traffic, and I noticed it was really busy. There it was, I knew right then and there that my transformers would be busy. -
go up to get the url for the source article
Bay has been offered many super hero projects over the years, but has turned them down for the same reason many aficionados of original fantasy characters dislike their interpretation on celluloid. So when Spielberg tapped him to direct an action picture bringing to life a 20-year-old iconic toy line that had already been immortalized with lunch boxes, comic books, games and its own cartoon series, Bay realized he would be confronting an outspoken army of die-hard fans who were dedicated to the original action figures.DBS3000 emits...There were the assey losers that needed to be shown and told what cool is, and who better to deliver that message than me. Shoot for the edit-wink- chicka -pow -
An admirer of Japanese animé, Bay knew he and his production designer, Jeff Mann, would do justice to the Transformers™ franchise, but neither of them was prepared for the onslaught of harsh criticism they would face even before a single frame of film was shot.ok, no bullshit this time. Just utter shock because Mike Bay is cool, and cool does not get contradicted. Like when Mork battles the Fonz
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“You have to respect the guys who created these phenomenal toys,” says Bay, “but I was set on taking them into a real world where they’d have to be more intricate to fit in. The Generation One robots were very blocky which would have been like using the unarticulated marshmallow man from ‘Ghostbusters.’ Our Optimus Prime® has 10,108 parts, each of which move.DBS3000 is back in business...Those dipshits who have been designing these things for 20 years don't know dick. They need me to tell them how it should be done. Me to make them cool. Only I can make this thing a success. I mean if it weren't for me Armeggeddon wouldn't have scored a 92. So, screw the old it's a new day and that day belongs to micheal bay.Hell yeah!!! I thought of that myself, can you dig it? So, I saw this boxey stuff and I said "no,way man- make it busy- busy like the traffic, bro". "It should be sharp and pointy stuff" because they looked like boxes ebut I was thinking about the michelin man, but he was round and they couldn't articulate and mine were all "hey dude" and they were like "no way, man" so I was like "but I'm fucking Michael Bay" and the shit went down like that.
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Jun 19, 2007 3:28:49 PM CDT
What they are saying...Vol.26 (if you only read one)
by 1178hunterbosser
“It was a big leap of faith for me to sign onto a movie like this,” he continues, “because I only wanted to make something that was as photorealistic as possible. These robots are the most complex modules ILM has ever made. We couldn’t have accomplished this two years ago. I guess that’s my answer to people who complain that the robots will look a bit different from the originals. Sometimes it’s best not to answer your critics and just let the work stand for itself.”I'm an ass.
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I did mange to scrounge this from the memory banks....
“It was a big leap of faith for me to sign onto a movie like this,” he continues, “because I only wanted to make something that was as photorealistic as possible. These robots are the most complex modules ILM has ever made. We couldn’t have accomplished this two years ago. I guess that’s my answer to people who complain that the robots will look a bit different from the originals. Sometimes it’s best not to answer your critics and just let the work stand for itself.” last transmission replayI'm an ass. -
but it will be back. Oh yes, it will be back.
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Jon Voight said “He’s got this tireless energy and he jumps from one set to another. Sometimes it seems as though he’s making it up on the spot..."
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I guess I can use this brand new pointy megatron figure to pick the shit out with.
Jon Voight said “He’s got this tireless energy and he jumps from one set to another. Sometimes it seems as though he’s making it up on the spot..."whup...we have life...DBS3000 says-My daughter fucking hates me and I don't even know my grandchildren's names. -
very close....
let's see what we have next
ah here's a peach...“Our goal was always to be true to the original spirit behind the Transformers™,” says di Bonaventura. “You never want to disappoint the people who really care about the franchise if only because it translates to a larger audience and negativity spreads. Besides, we would never want to alienate our core fan base; it’s like alienating your family.”DBS3000 has an answer“Our goal was always to be true to the original spirit behind the Transformers™,” says di Bonaventura. “You never want to disappoint the people who really care about the franchise if only because it translates to a larger audience and negativity spreads. Besides, we would never want to alienate our core fan base; it’s like alienating your family.” -
TASE, it's fully rigged and ready for animation right now, no clipping or cheating of any kind. No it is not articulated enough to be in a film since I was going for a near exact copy of my MP Prime toy, but it wouldn't take too much to give it a lot more articulation, but that wasn't what I was going for.
When animated it moves very naturally, and that's just with the stock 3DS Max mocap files. It has fully articulated joints, hands ankles, the works. I even slapped a morpher on the face so I can "emote" with the eyes, and the mouth shield has an extra bone in it so he talks, which looks pretty damn cool BTW. -
too far to scroll
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just before it went tits up.
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is a beast thats the new Aquafag.
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http://tinyurl.com/yqkt2s
GM and Director Michael Bay are both represented by the same talent agency William Morris (an agency Hasbro, Inc. recently jumped ship to) and GM got to Mr. Bay first, and early. Unlike other product placements, GM did not have to pay Paramount Pictures to have their cars featured prominently in "Transformers." Instead, they contributed approximately $1 Million in cars to the picture, and will most likely spend even more doing cross-promotional advertisements.To entice Mr. Bay, GM took him to a "secret design center," as described by Forbes writer Dorothy Pomerantz, in 2005 and showed him over 100 cars that GM has in its arsenal. Apparently, Mr. Bay fell in love with the 2006 Chevrolet Camaro concept and picked it to portray Bumblebee.
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no, seriously, it is an actual contest.
http://tinyurl.com/2rc6vs -
Now I dont have a problem with 1 or 2 GM's but to have one car maker for the entire Autobots save for prime is down right whorish. And that Solstice is faggy little car, if Jazz had to be a GM he should of least been a vette.
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Grammar attack # 1,275
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FYI: Bay didn't hire Orci and Kurtzman. They were already onboard drafting scripts before Spielberg ever talked to Bay. In fact, if you did a little research, you'd find that nearly everyone in the early production phases lobbied for Bay to be the director. Also, the writers have also done a lot of work for latest "super-genius" J.J. Abrams (i.e. Alias & MI3).
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I dont know about that. I'll admit I didn't start watching Alias till There was a giant globe in the sky making people crazy but but the 2 years I saw was absolute crap. MI3 was good but, what is this I hear about the Writers of catwomen being involved in this movie? Also I havn't heard about anyone lobbying for Bay other then the Berg. I know in a interview with the "Mighty 2'C,s an DeSanto they said he was on there "short list of directors" they wanted but that sounded like lip service to me.
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But you should all continue trying to beat him.
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Hey dude. Yeah, the "super-genius" comment was totally sarcastic.Orci has said in the past that they all thought Bay was a perfect fit for the concept. They did have a shortlist and it was Spielberg who made the call. It may have been "lip service", but who is to say?
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According to IMDB, Orci and Kurtzman had nothing to do with that film. John Rogers was the guy involved.
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Were on before Micheal Bay. Infact I remember reading an interview with the two of them where they specifically mentioned how they brought Michael in, when he first signed up, to look at the animatics they'd developed with Hasbro before a director was in place. So MNG is correct; the two writers had previously worked with him and felt he had what it took to put it on screen.As for the catwoman thing, John Rogers is indeed attached but since Orci and Kurtzman get all the limelight, so to speak, then I'm happy to assume his input is minimal if at all now. They did a good job on MI3 and, for the record, Alias was really good up to season 3, (although 3 was the beggining of the end), so again I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just read the prequel comics which were entertaining, albeit short, and it seems that the film does have some essence of the original G1. The allspark thing that people lament is really just the matrix renamed.Anyhow, I've got the graphic novel of the movie adaption here, I'm doing my best not to read it since I don't want to spoil the movie for me; something I wish alot of people who had the script had done.
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It totally rocks. Stand-up-and-cheer rocks. I wanna go see it again RIGHT NOW rocks. I expect all naysayers to be eating their words in two weeks. I am not a plant. If you can't enjoy a movie simply for what it is, then there's something wrong with you. And I love how everyone makes assumptions before they've even seen the damn thing. ASS-U-ME. I hate Michael Bay as much as the next guy (or girl, as the case may be) - although I kind of liked The Island - but this movie KICKS ASS.
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Just curious. If you don't answer, it matters not. How many films do you see a year? How many dvds do you own? Just an estimate.
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My third family at Siebertron.com just got hold of a few screens of the the new Transformers cartoon, "Transformers: Heroes" and from the all the hate spewwing forth it can't be good I'm at work and I can view Hotlinked or hosted images but if you guys go there you can see them. Now most of my peeps from seibertron love this movie crap but they are all livid over this.
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Let's see... I see approximately... 50-ish new movies a year. I own approximately... 100 DVDs. My favorites that I can and have watched over and over: Fight Club, Snatch, Star Wars OT, LOTR, Serenity, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Pride and Prejudice, A Life Less Ordinary, Edward Scissorhands, Office Space, ... oh, and I enjoy all of the Harry Potter flicks, although I don't really watch them over and over. Of the movies I've seen in the past 12 months, my favorites are Grindhouse, Hot Fuzz, Pan's Labyrinth, Borat, The Fountain, 300, and now Transformers (I'm sure I'm missing some, but these are off the top of my head). Movies I was disappointed in this year: Spider-Man 3, POTC 3 (haven't seen either of the Fantastic 4 movies so can't comment on them). Movies that I can't wait to see this year: Live Free or Die Hard, Room 1408, Transformers again, Harry Potter 5, The Simpsons Movie, Stardust, Across the Universe, and The Golden Compass (again, probably missing some). Hope that gives you a good idea of my tastes. I LOVE MOVIES. And I adore Transformers. It's everything a summer movie should be, and yes, it has a plot, and the characters are endearing and it makes me want a sequel REALLY bad because I want to see more of these robots! BTW, I am 30, I remember the original Transformers and even owned a few.
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I was expecting to, if not downright hate T-formers, at least not be as enamored of it as I now am. In fact, if I hadn't gotten a free ticket to one of the press screenings in Hollywood, I probably wouldn't have gone to see it opening weekend. Now, I am planning a huge group outing on opening night. I have absolutely no problem admitting that I was wrong. Seriously, I love this movie. Please, just allow me to love this movie, no apologies needed!!
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for the record this is 1st time I've called anyone a plant.
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Haters are dorks. I hope you all enjoy your cynical lives.
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this movie doesn't need plants to pimp it. it's great and that's all there is to it. no matter, I'll be the one laughing and pointing when you're eating your words in a couple weeks.
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Prime I now Love Micheal Bay. I have to stop Looking at that stuff before I fall in love with Don Murphy.
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Thanks for sharing. I don't think plants are needed to pimp a movie. The marketing is a dreadnought. I think some overestimate the general intelligence of the masses. Look at FF2. Made mega bucks. Shiney, shiney, boom, boom, visual effects. Hated by critics and most on this site, but the masses spoke with their wallets. I am not aiming that slight at anyone in particular, just stating a fact. That film, like TINO, looks mindless. I don't like mindless. I enjoy film too much (as evidenced by my myriad of posts) to subjugate myself to garbage. But that's simply my opinion. Some, obviously most, are far more forgiving than I. And that's okay. Life goes on. It's only film, but I'll be damned if I cannot talk about it. This is one such venue which allows such. Many people like movies that I consider, well, stupid. Many of the films I enjoy are considered boring and pretentious by those same people. Different strokes for different folks, right? I too like the surprise of a good film. I love this property so much (i.e. I have enjoyed it via various forms for most of my life) that I took quite an interest in it from its inception. Everything that has transpired regarding this film has disgusted me for lack of a better word. So, yeah, I'll type venomous, redundant, irrelevant rhetoric whenever I feel like it. Enough people know my handle. When you see, skip the dialogue box I have populated. I do the same with people I can't stand. Sarcasm aside, I'm glad you liked the film. I owned like two Transformers toys. I'm a comic book freak, not a toy freak. It could have been more than a giant toy commercial. But that's exactlly what it is and most are happy with such.
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Does anyone find it peculiar that The Autobot taking the most screen times alt-mode is a car thats going to be released next year as Chevy's new flag-ship muscle car.
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Nope. You know this! Marketing Dreadnought, thy name is GM, hurm, I mean TINO.....
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And the characterization. We know the effects are good so give us some details the other reviewers couldn't.
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What is up with that animated mess? They now have the ability to do better designs than ever and they go with some crappy Power Puff Girls variation on TF? UGH!!!!! I like meshing Japanese and American animation styles. Like Thundercats, or G-Force, etc. Why can't Pat Lee design the TF for a cartoon?
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find that I'll be sure to find out the address of everyone responsible for Transformer:Heroes and give them the subsequent torching they so rightly deserve.
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MICHAEL BAY: Listen, I’m a huge Transformer fan now, I can officially say I’ve probably thought more about robots on earth than anyone in the past year and a half. Yeah, I actually think that because I wasn’t a fan, I think it makes it more accessible to other people. Does that make sense? Megatron was a gun, and I’m like, ‘I don’t get that,’ and I did get a lot of flak from fans on the net, like, ‘Michael Bay, you wrecked my childhood.’ ‘Michael Bay, you suck. We’re going to protest his office.’ They protested my old office apparently. That’s true. The death threats freak me up, but I think we’ve – I would listen to fans on the net, I really would. I would kind of hear their comments, but I’m still going to make my movie and I’ll still put flames on Optimus.
I wish I knew the elusive bolding code to highlight that last little bit there. -
Grammar attack #12
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could've kept his damn flames although that makes no sense asthetically it's ugly. The film has bigger problems than that.
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could've kept his damn flames although that makes no sense asthetically it's ugly. The film has bigger problems than that.
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the film hasnt any problems.its pure entertainment and its fun to watch.and flames are cool.
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and shop at ambercrombie & Finch (I'll be damned if I spell that right) Grammar Attack #1,977
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cartoon about alien robots.
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the Truck that prime Scanned. Thats got to be one interesting Hick.
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just doesn't belong on Prime. It's like having pink robots or mustachioed robots.
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He has the stones to unapoligetically do things like add flames grennlight that terrible script. But I figured he would gone the M. Night road and made himself the star of the movie Bay should be the voice of the Allspark.
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you didn't just go there.
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He's a perpetual adolescent, it explains all of his film choices.
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like Bay is even original in his tackiness.
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nope flames are cool.i am glad bay put them.
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I was getting sick of all the hater talk and starting to become one myself given Bay's past. This has been a whacky summer with movies like suck/fuck/bore-fests like Shrek3, SM3 and PotC3, which should have been easy successes and this one (TINO?) which was supposed to suck but apparently doesn't. Could Michael Bay be the champion of the Summer of 2007?
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That intelligently refuting an argument means either basically replying, "You're wrong", and not providing evidence as to why, or just ignoring the evidence presented.
Superninja, your tactics are the intellectual equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying, "Lah Lah Lah Lah, I'm not listening!".
Please answer the valid and relevant questions I asked further up the TB. -
hehe pawprint i asked superninja some questions too but she ignored them.i guess if you cant beat them,just ignore them.
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(bear with me, I've only seen it once, and I was sitting in the 5th row!) ****HUGE HUGE SPOILERS - I'M TELLING YOU, DON'T READ ANYMORE IF YOU WANT TO BE SURPRISED AT ALL BY THE FILM!****** Well, it's about this big fuckin' cube that created the Transformers and is the ultimate source of raw power. Some transformers want to use it for good (Autobots) and some want to use it for evil (Decepticons). None of the Autobots know where it is, but it seems that it crash-landed on earth somewhere, that much they know. Megatron knows where it is, but he crash-landed in Antarctica and immediately froze before he could get to it. Sam's grandfather was an explorer and stumbled upon the deep frozen Megatron, activated something that etched the location of the cube in his eyeglasses. The government (Sector 7) moved Megatron to Arizona and built the Hoover Dam around him to hide him beneath miles of concrete. The cube is also in the Hoover Dam. (of course, we don't find most of this out until towards the end of the movie, but this is a summary) ... Meanwhile, no one knows that the location is in Sam's grandfather's glasses. **** Sam is a loveable dork. His dad pays half for a piece of shit car after Sam proves that he's got the drive to raise enough money for the other half by selling his grandfather's treasures on eBay. The car chooses the driver. Bumblebee and Sam = BFF. Bumblebee helps Sam win the girl, and it's very sweet (keep in mind that I'm a girl and actually like that shit). **** Meanwhile, the Decepticons have hacked into the government computers through a series of VERY cool assaults on the military (and the help of the pretty darn cool 'iPod transformer' who's like a spy for the Decepticons and can shoot awesome razor blade thingies at great speeds... NOTHING like Jar Jar) and found out the name of the explorer who found Megatron back in the day. They put two and two together and find Sam. They discover Sam's eBay auction ID for the eyeglasses and the hunt begins. ***** Sam eventually sees his car transform and send a signal into the night sky. Barricade has tracked down Sam and demands the goods from eBay auction _____, and Bumblebee and Barricade have a badass fight. Bumblebee saves Sam and Mikaela (HATE that name, BTW). Mikaela also happens to like cars and have a juvi record from helping her dad steal some autos when she was younger (we find out later). **** The government defense people, with the help of a beautiful decoder with an Australian accent named Maggie, figure out that the weird noises and hacking is coming from an alien race. Sector 7 tracks down Sam, who by now has been introduced to more Autobots by Optimus Prime, who also demands that he turn over the glasses to him so that they can find the giant fuckin' cube and use it for good and before the Decepticons can get their hands on it. (there's a funny scene of Sam desparately trying to find the glasses while the Autobots are making a mess of his parent's backyard... pointless to the plot, but perfect for establishing the character of the 'bots.) Sector 7 busts in and arrests Sam, Mikaela and Sam's parents because they don't know that there are both good and bad alien robots, they just think they are all bad, and thus Sam must be bad since he has something to do with them. The Autobots try to save Sam, but Sector 7 captures Bumblebee so they let them go, for now (Autobots don't harm humans). Sector 7, led by a slightly annoying, yet refreshingly random, Agent Simmons takes the whole batch of captives to the Hoover Dam to pump Sam for any information he has about the alien robots and why they have hacked into the government systems. They do this by torturing Bumblebee. It's REALLY sad when Bumblebee gets captured and tortured... again, me=girl, so cut me some slack.****** Autobots, roll out. Megatron wakes up. Decepticons attack. Autobots, Decepticons, U.S. military fight and detroy all kinds of shit... it's freakin' awesome. Turns out that if you stick the giant fuckin' cube (which has been shrunk to about 1'x1' by some sort of force when Bumblebee touched it - hey, don't question the force of the giant fuckin' cube) into the chest of a transformer (their power source) it will destroy both the cube and the transformer. Prime tells Sam to stick it in his chest because Megatron is about to wipe him out. Of course Sam sticks it in Megatron's chest instead and hurray, Megatron melts (which was a *little* disappointing because I wanted him to explode in a giant ball of energy, but I guess they had to keep it open for sequels). Decepticons are sunk to the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean. Happy ending, but it's kind of sad too because the Autobots are now stuck on Earth forever because the cube has been destroyed. ***** I LOVE THESE ROBOTS. More please. If I didn't love this movie, you can bet your sweet ass I wouldn't be spending my valuable time arguing its merits to a bunch of crazy TBers. And as you can see, there is plenty of characterization, and it actually makes the audience care about the people AND the robots. Plus, it must be pretty cohesive even though its fast-paced, as I got all of that from one viewing, in the front, after knowing NOTHING about the film before going in. It got a standing ovation, I'm not shitting you. ***** The End.
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it's going to make a bazillion dollars. I really do detest Michael Bay, believe me or not. My friend has worked on a couple of his films and he's definitely a piece of shit human being. But no matter how you personally feel about Mr. Bay, the movie is great.
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thanx for the story strider.it looks good,although i dont like the ending.
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er i disagree memories.superninja hasnt answered anything,because he knows he cant beat our arguements.she has got owned baby.
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Your that guy who wrote that Spiderman3 review from the view of his mother arent you?
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nope memories you are wrong.first of all i have read all the tf talkbacks,everything from the start.and superninja so far has refused to answer simple question from the people who like this movie.i even have asked her a specific,logical question and she didnt have the guts to give a clear answer.so there you have it.stop defending her.
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Aw bless.. The typical 'hater' defense; "Looking forward to TF's? You're a plant."
"Good review of TF's?" Plant.
It's knee-jerk, blinkered 'haters' like you who are responsible in quite a big way for the dropping credibility of this site, by screaming "Plant", whenever someone disagrees with your opinion.
Having been on this site a while, whenever I saw a cry of 'Plant', for an unpopular fan-review, I was never 100% sure. Now that I am on the receiving end of these cries, just for being excited about this film, I can fully see the ridiculousness of the situation. As mentioned elsewhere, I am a British soldier serving in Germany (currently at work). I haven't even SEEN the bloody film, just the trailers. So 'planting' me would be a bloody silly thing to do. Not that it matters, as people like you will continue to use me, and others, as scapegoats as more and more positive reviews come rolling in.
It becomes more and more apparent as good reviews keep rolling in that the rabid 'haters', have lost this 'battle'. If you don't like this film (when you've SEEN it); that's fine - it's your opinion. But until then, keep your ridiculous and unjustified, venomous rants to yourselves.
Superninja throws accusations of evasion and lies around like sweets to disguise the fact that she is one of the biggest escape artists in this TB. She is not arguing from a position of strength. To say you don't think you're going to enjoy this film (and give logical reasons why - ala YackBacker), is one thing - to nitpick ludicrous, anal flaws in the film, while overlooking the same in it's source material (with no real backup) is completely another.
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If it pains you so much to see good reviews of a movie you've been determined to hate since day one, I suggest you avoid visiting Internet movie sites for afew weeks; every review I've read so far have had far more positives than negatives.As for Superninja, I used to take her seriously but when she decided to waltz into a TF comic talkback and take a shit on the great Geoff Seniors artwork I knew she was full of shit. When I called on her criticism she tried to be smart with me but totally failed to make any coherent point. She then tried back out of it saying she didn't think Geoff Senior was a great storyteller; any TF comic fan knows the story writer was Simon Furman. She simply hates for the sake of it. She's yet to answer any of my questions regarding that and I seriously doubt she will because she pretends to be fully versed but it's painfully obvious she knows sweet FA.There are one or two people on here that make convincing arguments time and time again, Yack and HWCBN are perhaps the two most level headed naysayers and I've no problems but to be honest, the raving rants of some of the loons on here certainly tarnishes the rep and goodwill of people like Yack and HWCBN and maybe even Nonsense.
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Superninja, regularfacetoht , MoM, and many other irrational 'haters' who haven't yet seen the film have 'been weighed and measured and found wanting..'
I'll quite happily get into a vicious mud-slinging session (all in the spirit of fun, and to exercise the grey matter) with Yack, because he can validate and back up his position, and most importantly, he doesn't try to pass off his opinions as fact or law. -
If these are good reviews, I can't wait to see the negative ones where people point out the many faults with the movie...oh wait, those are the GOOD reviews! But right now, it's just so funny to read the apologist's posts and how they're supposedly 'pwning' people. Can you even explain why you're so passionately rooting for a flawed film? If you'd actually read any of the replies to your posts (instead of repeatedly saying "hur hur hur, pink robots and beards" and "it's an 80's cartoon") you would have noticed that most people want this to be a great movie, but it's insulting that the film-makers have decided to just 'phone it in'. Why are you so bothered by the fact that we want a decently smart script that gives some real screen time and characterization to the 'big fucking robots'. Every time something is written about this movie, there are a laundry list of excuses preceding the one or two good points. So if you are indeed 'pwning' everyone like you say, perhaps we can turn the tables and you can explain a few details to me. Like previous incarnations of Bumblebee, the film implies that he is the weakest of the Transformers... how does his alt mode of a camaro muscle-car compliment this idea? (Any good film-maker worth his/her salt would take details like this into consideration so please don't insult our intelligence by passing it off as 'that was just the car he happened to scan). Also, the main tagline for this film states that the Autobots are here to protect us...as evidenced by the end of the film (Sam's actions), were they even necessary? If you agree with this, can you tell me why you wouldn't have preferred to see an all-out battle between Optimus and Megatron at the end of the film? Do you enjoy childish humour such as machine's 'peeing' oil on the villains? I have many more items to be explained, but I'll start with these and wait with giddy anticipation while you pwn me.
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HTML paragraph codes. Type these three symbols in succession without spaces. "". Those three symbols will give you a line split. Or you could type "". Those four symbols will give you a line break. C'mon guy, as much as I enjoy your rants, your lack of division is tough on the eyes for this grumpy old timer.
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MoM;
"TINO bitch asses making a point? Don't we known them by now already to know they cannot, by their very nature, make a point, whatever simple it might be? I mean, they love TINO, for christ's sakes! 'Nuff said already!"
They are the words of a 'hater' - YOUR words, MoM.
"The Pawplant keeps on asking again and again why superninja can accept fembots and beared robots in Transformers while 10,000 exposed moving pieces on optimus Prime pisses her off. she already replied that many times, and what she said was, she never though the idea of fembots and beared robots to had been a good idea to begin with. The thinks it's all a bit daft, and she's not fan of that."
Your words again, MoM. In answer to my question, the best Superninja could muster was;
"Think about this for a second. Live action pink robots and robots with beards might be stupid, but they're not contradictory. Reverse-engineered robots that have car engines in them when they are supposed to be aliens are. Pink is a color. A beard is styling. Robots can have those things whether or not you think they're stupid."
Brilliant. The contradictions in that statement are incredible.
Magpye; People who have seen this film so far all seem to be in agreement on ONE thing; that they fucking ENJOYED it. Is this a crime? Does it cause you any physical pain? Are these people less intelligent life-forms because they enjoyed it? Mind how you answer..
Also, as Strider_is_hot points out, there seems to be a story in there somewhere too... but I'm sure you and your like will find something else to nitpick at.. oh wait; you did!
"Like previous incarnations of Bumblebee, the film implies that he is the weakest of the Transformers... how does his alt mode of a camaro muscle-car compliment this idea?"
So if I disguise myself as a circus strong-man, should I instantly become as strong as one. Looks can be deceptive. Besides, the car 'disguise' is there to hide him from humans, and let's face it - he could disguise himself as a lawn-mower and still be stronger than any human when he's in robot form.
I enjoy childish humour as much as the next man, if done right. Did you not crack a smile at the spunk-drinking in American Pie? The Jeff Bridges toilet scene in Dumb and Dumber? I nearly fucking wet 'em - never mind smiled.
"Also, the main tagline for this film states that the Autobots are here to protect us...as evidenced by the end of the film (Sam's actions), were they even necessary?" Not that I've SEEN the film, but are you saying that just because Sam stops Megatron there was no point in the Autobots coming?
So, at no point in the film do the Autobots protect ANY humans from Decepticons?
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Seriously, we need some industrial strength weedkller for these TINO threads!
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Jun 20, 2007 8:50:11 AM CDT
I haven't been this excited about a movie . . .
by themanwithtoomanynames
since Emmerich's Godzilla!
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Those of you bitching about any positive review/response being a "plant" better start getting used to it. There are going to be just as many people who have a positive reaction to this film as those of you who want to hate it before the projector has even been turned on. Not much you can do about it.As for flames on a truck, I take it you're rather ignorant of the vast number of flamed tractor trailers buzzing up and down all over the midwest/west coast. Some of them actually look pretty cool. The idea that one of them (Prime) would show up in LA isn't far fetched at all. It's just a design choice that Bay liked. You either dig it or you don't.BFD.
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Jun 20, 2007 8:51:41 AM CDT
I haven't been this excited about a movie . . .
by themanwithtoomanynames
since ID4!
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Jun 20, 2007 8:53:00 AM CDT
I haven't been this excited about a movie . . .
by themanwithtoomanynames
since Hook!
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Because I'm refuting the ridiculous nitpicking being shown on this TB?
Or because I'm not showing enough irrational hatred? -
Jun 20, 2007 8:54:56 AM CDT
I haven't been this excited about a movie . . .
by themanwithtoomanynames
since Pearl Harbor!
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Jun 20, 2007 8:56:38 AM CDT
I haven't been this excited about a movie . . .
by themanwithtoomanynames
since Glitter!
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Jun 20, 2007 9:03:04 AM CDT
I haven't been this excited about a movie . . .
by themanwithtoomanynames
since Battlefield Earth! "".
God, with Pirates and Spiderman, this is going to be one hell of a summer for fantastic movies! -
You TOO could start sprouting leaves all of a sudden - just like the rest of us without an irrational hatred of this film...
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The "" End.
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Did it work?
Kurwa! -
The point I'm making about Bumblebee isn't nitpicking...it's a fundamental issue in terms of successful character design. And I asked this because you're the one constantly bringing up the points about bearded robots versus the current designs, so now I'm telling you why it fails as a successful design choice. It's the basically the difference between C-3PO and IG-88...successful character design should be able to read to the audience immediately without explanation. Does a muscle-car suggest weakness? I realize that most people take these things for granted when they watch a movie, but I actually work as a character designer for television and film, so it's my job to think out all the elements of a film and how they read to an audience. And yes, I did laugh at those moments in American Pie and Dumb and Dumber...but perhaps I should point out a little something called 'genre' to you. You see, I expect those moments in 'teen comedies', in fact, I shut my brain down at the door for them. Would I laugh at the same moments in something like Blade Runner? And I use BR as an example because Bay himself said that he was making a 'gritty' action film with TF, and when I think of gritty, I think of BladeRunner. For the record, I also found the fart joke irritating/childish in the Phantom Menace. As for the Autobots protecting the humans in the movie, yes, I sure the do at some points, but are you saying that you're happy with Sam being the victor instead of Optimus? And I ask you once again, can you explain what it is about this movie that has you coming back over and over to defend it?
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Since I find it very strange that a new/unknown user should turn up at the end of a lengthy talkback and profess to know every single point made in the 1500 or so posts thats been made since god knows when. Oh anyone who thinks they could make a 'gritty', like BladeRunner, action flick where the stars are giant transforming vehicles is deluding himself. I don't suppose you could link me to that Bay interview where he mentions grittyness?Oh and for what it's worth, one of the best episodes of the cartoon that people love so much, Desertion of the Dinobots, had Sam and Carly winning the day for them, so don't complain about the live action Sam doing something positive will ya?MOM - Don't bother posting on Superninjas behalf anymore, people want the answers from her; especially me re: Geoff Seniors legendary artwork supposedly being shit. I am dying to get clarification on that but since I've already established she doesn't have a clue on the subject I merely ask it to make her look stupid; yes I'm that shallow as to enjoy putting people on the spot like that.
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I don't have another screenname, this is the name I use for everything :) And I don't profess to know everything that was said here, but I'm just smart and I actually READ the posts. You can find that statement by Bay in the latest interview with him at Superhero Hype. And I never said I wanted a gritty TF film (see, like me, you should actually read the posts), just a good one. But for some reason, that concept just blows peoples minds here...I mean, god-forbid, we're on a movie review site, and some of us want to see a good movie. The idea just boggles the mind! lol Also, I personally can't stand the cartoons, so don't bother using them as a reference for me. I guess you were more than happy with the Ewoks taking down the Empire in ROTJ? Or better yet, what if R2 had defeated Darth Vader in the end? That would be just spiffy :) And lastly, I'm not familiar with Geoff Seniors work, but from what I gather (from having read the posts...again, what a concept) it's not the art, SN doesn't like, it the use of panel layouts and story-flow. There are a lot of Top Cow-style artists out there who can draw supermodel-like characters, but have no idea how to tell a legible story through illustration.
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Just went back and read through the interview again, and Bay doesn't say 'gritty', he say's 'edgy'...but the point is still there. Bay:
"I wanted it to be a little bit more, if you could say, adult, so I'm sure I'm going to get flack for – you made an edgy movie on a toy..." If two pee jokes in a film is edgy and adult, well...I'll let that speak for itself. But those of you calling other irrational haters really need to look in a mirror and check out the irrational faith you seem to have. -
Well, since this detail has been spoiled routinely by the folks who have read the draft script, I find it funny that they fail to include Prime's viewpoint on the issue inherent in the event = Megatron sees the humans as puny, weak, and having no value. Prime sees them as a valuable source of strength. (Doesn't he even tell Megs this in that script you all supposedly read?!) The fact that Sam offs Megatron proves that Prime's belief in the value of human life as a strength is correct. Had Megatron been paying attention, he may have learned something from ol' OP.Bonus: that's your characterization right there.
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All of them. They're fascinating. On one hand you get rational sane people arguing the merits or problems with this movie, you get the ritalin crowd who just don't operate on the same level as everyone else and then there's the crowd who simply don't have a good word to say about anything, ever, at all.I've scanned the SH interview with Bay and I also see he failed to make any comparisons to 'gritty' movies like Blade Runner so that's purely something you read into it. As for being 'edgy' that waits to be seen, since you or I haven't actually seen the movie, (and no, reading an early script does not constitute a review of the film), then neither of us can really know any better.Your Star Wars analogy doesn't wortk either as any Star Wars fan will tell you The Ewoks didn't bring down the empire; it's a common misconception amongst people who really can't find anything better to moan about. As for R2 beating Vader, well, George is reknowned for his stupid additions, midichlorians anyone? It's a poor point though, Sam/Spike/Buster have all had stories in TF where they've taken on Decepticons and won.Out of interest, since you don't like the cartoon, I'd like to know how you can draw any conclusions about TF at all? As someone who's not familiar with Geoff Seniors work I can assume you have no knowledge of the comic either. How exactly can you judge the direction of this movie when you clearly have no reference to make your comparisons? Strange that, Superninja has exactly the same problem too. Since you're both so alike in ideas maybe you can show me a comic that doesn't use Panels to tell a story. Oh and for the record Geoff Senior is widely revered amongst fans of the TF comic, if there was a guy who could illustrate a story it's him. Go sell that bullshit elsewhere super...i mean Magpye.
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Perfect answer. And there IS a giant battle between Prime and Megatron, it just so happens that Prime is about to LOSE that battle. Sam's actions prove Prime to be right about humans. It's actually a very cool scene, except for Megatron's death was a little anticlimactic.
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My answers aren't selective; as far as I was aware, I extracted the points you wished me to comment on and answered them. However, I was at work and in somewhat of a hurry. If I miss something, please point it out. Now then...
"Does a muscle-car suggest weakness?"; Not sure on the definition of 'muscle-car' but when I look at the car BumbleBee is in the film, all it suggests to me is 'speed'.
"And yes, I did laugh at those moments in American Pie and Dumb and Dumber...but perhaps I should point out a little something called 'genre' to you. You see, I expect those moments in 'teen comedies', in fact, I shut my brain down at the door for them. Would I laugh at the same moments in something like Blade Runner? "
I'm perfectly aware of 'genre'. And, yes, I would expect moments of humour in a flagship summer film. I consider there to be many levels of 'entertaining' when it comes to films; Blade Runner is in the main, entertaining in a thought-provoking way; summer films like TF's I EXPECT to be entertaining in an adrenalising, spectacular kind of way. I don't look for the same result from BR as I would from Star Wars.
In answer to your question, I would be more than happy with Sam taking down Megatron, if done convincingly and in correct context. As I mentioned elsewhere, storytelling is crammed with examples of guile triumphing over strength, brains over brawn, unexpected actions over gross over-confidence. If the Decepticons are not totally invulnerable then they can be taken out - if they are taken out by a smaller weaker entity using deception/guile/intelligence, without bending the rules - I'm fine. See Imperial Walkers v Snowspeeders, or Luke v Imperial Walker in ESB. (And no, Luke WASN'T using the force- he was using his head).
Why do I come back here to 'defend' this film?
1. I'm not defending it - I am merely pointing out the inconsistencies and irrational hatred in others slamming it without having seen it. I CAN'T truly defend it, because I haven't seen it either.
It looks like an interesting, exciting summer film to me. I know many people looking forward to seeing it.
2. This film is an emotive subject; I am enjoying the debate actually. Any TF talkback is bound to be good fun. I am also a huge Watchmen fan; but at the moment any Watchmen TB is guaranteed to just be loads of people posting dream cast lists, with no intention of discussing anything.
Have I missed anything?
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No, I'm not SuperNinja...I'm an artist/director who goes by the name of Magpye for all of my work. You can even visit my site mackinnonart.com :D I saw a few of the cartoons as a kid, but they didn't hold my interest. I did, however, collect the Marvel comics up until about issue 60 or so. And the first few issues of the series had a lot of good elements in them which I would have liked to have seen carried over into the film. I mention the Ewoks because that is the on-screen climax to the film...this is what we, the audience, get to see in terms of the 'personal' defeat of the empire. Yes, in the SE's we get to see glimpses of uprisings across the galaxy, but when you think about the fact that we almost had a planet of Wookies trouncing the bad guys, which do you prefer? You have to admit, it's a bit of a let down in comparison to the assault on the first Death Star, or the At-At attack on Hoth in terms of all out war. Yes, I think Sam should play a crucial role in helping out, but it really should be Optimus who takes down Megatron. (Just like Superman takes down Luthor, Batman takes down the Joker etc.) Anyway, I think it's gotten to the point where people are ready to just pounce all over each other here without listening to any other viewpoints. I freely admit that I'll be going to see this movie as soon as it comes out, and I really hope that I'll like it. I'm not even a Bay-basher because for some reason, I keep hoping that he'll make that one, truly great film (though, I'm always let down...I had such high hopes for The Island). Transformers could be great, but the fan base seems to have been underestimated, and everything so far points to this film just being a 'toy' movie. You also seem to have missed the fact that I support many of the design changes for this movie. I don't think that any incarnation of Optimus as a toy would have translated well to film, but I also feel that the movie went too far overboard with the robot versions. When one of the limbs crosses in front of a torso, it becomes lost. But the very reason I even started posting here was that I couldn't believe what a free-pass this movie was getting even though it seemed to be doing everything wrong, and I still don't understand why some of you have such a vested interest in defending this movie even though you refuse to admit what it is you even like about it? That's probably why you are getting called 'plants'...I just want to know why you like what you've seen enough to keep coming here and fighting for it...
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Thanks for answering me :) I think your opinions are valid
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I wouldn't say the fanbase has been 'underestimated', more 'sidelined'.
Yes, there are apparently nods to the fans - so I'm told, but I think THIS TF film is meant to appeal to a wider audience, rather than just a (relatively speaking) handful of obsessive fans.
After all, modern films are just as much about making a return as they are entertainment, so it would be common sense to try and attract as wide an audience as possible. -
Thank YOU for being intelligent enough to engage in a sensible, interesting debate.
"I think your opinions are valid.."
Again, thank YOU; because that's all I'm putting forward here; opinions. No-one has to like them, and I'm not passing them off as fact.
Again, thanks, and well played! -
Don't even consider yourself even remotely 'pwned' ;-)
1. Because it's not a phrase I would use in any serious manner,
and
2. This would imply one or both of us was out to 'win', as opposed to an interesting discussion/debate over differing viewpoints. -
It's not just the humans who get the bum African-American sterotyping. Yea, Bay. Way to go. Ass.
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Insanely powerful arm cannon that obliterates Brawl (a very tough Combaticon)? Not quite what I would imagine BB capable of. Good thing they kept it true to the IP. So the article tells us.
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Mr. Nice Gaius and Pawprint are not plants. And I tire of that word. Opinions are opinions. That's why I visit these boards. Mr. Nice Gaius and Pawprint have been posting for quite some time. Some people have insights I would have never considered and as such I am enlightened (moreso than not) about a film or subject. Hence, differing/opposing opinions/preferences. I hate Bay. I love Wong Kar Wai. Some love Bay and Hate Wong Kar Wai. blah blah blah
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I'm a prickly pear!
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You know what they say about opinions though...? ;-)
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I fucking hate it when someone claims someone's opinion is stated as fact. Either a.) the individual stating said opinion masquerading as fact is not well spoken/written or b.) it's a cop out defense/insult/retort by another who may be learning impaired (reading comprehension skills not up to snuff). Everyone has a fucking preference. I like plenty a shitty film. Plenty. They are called guilty pleasures. But even I have standards i.e. preferences. I rant about TINO because I saw more potential than what has been delivered and feel, well, insulted as a fan. But it's certainly not the first time (Cyberton, Armada, RiD, BW, BM, etc.) nor the last. The franchise is huge. Just wait until G.I. Joe hits. I by far more of a fan of that than TF. My first comic book and my most favorite. To this day. I have it all. All. And so far they don't understand that property either. Probably only looked at the dumb as hell cartoon for so-called inspiration. Witless assholes.
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"Why wouldn't the "obsessive fans'" concept of a great live-action Transformers film "appeal to a wider audience"? If the designs and character dynamics are still something people discuss fervently 25 years after they first appeared in the public domain, why are these things so clearly non-appealing to a wide movie audience? "
Because the obsessive fans are in a minority, and the only people still discussing it 25 years later are 80's TF geeks.
Sad, but true my friend - there aren't enough of you to make it commercially viable for this film to be aimed purely at 'the geeks'.
Plus don't forget Hasbro - they want a whole NEW generation of TF fans.
Kids today couldn't give a rat's ass about 'the 80's gay suck' TF's.
Again; sad but true.
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We don't call them 'muscle cars' in the UK, we call them 'fanny-magnets', or 'penis-extensions'.
When I look at the BumbleBee car, I just see 'speed', not 'strength'. That's maybe just me, though. -
"I still don't understand why some of you have such a vested interest in defending this movie even though you refuse to admit what it is you even like about it?"That's a question that has never been asked and not likely to be answered since we haven't seen the film; insstead what Pawprint and myself are saying is "reserve judgment until you see it". As an "artist/director" let me ask you this: Would you be best pleased if a group of rabid fanboys started shitting all over your work without seeing the final product? Any answer other than "no" will be a blatant lie.
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No i don't think so. Muscle Cars are American cars and it's a phrase coined in the states; American Muscle being the other highly touted concept. The UK has Hot-Hatches and Coupe's but that's about it. http://tinyurl.com/nq29c
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So you think that having Ironhide as a mauve molesters mini-van is a better choice than a big fucking pick up truck? Er...I don't think so.And for the 10 BILLIONTH time already, the old designs couldn't translate to screen. Comics and cartoons have the ability to bend the rules when it comes to designing shit but when you do it in 3D you're kinda stuck to these things we call the physical laws of the universe.Top that off with licencing issues; Porsche don't let their cars go easily and Volkswagen are pretty shit too when it comes to using their stuff.It's not as cut and dried as you make it out to be.
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Look, i'll type slowly since your too dense to keep up with the quick pace of what I'm saying. I haven't seen the movie, if it's shit, i'll say it's shit. That's what sane, level headed people do. Whiny little bullshitters, (pff muscle cars a uk term), who have an uncontrollable hatred of this movie because it ISN'T the exact reproduction of the live action movie you've spent the last 20 years playing over and over in your head, are the people without a case here. Get your facts straight and grow up.
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People might know what a muscle car is, but it only applies to American Cars and since we don't own muscle cars it's not one we bandy around is it. Your initial claim was thats what we call all high powered cars; thats a lie MOM. You have no problems trying to lie to make a point do you? Get a clue.
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I'll just come out and say it. YOU are the liar here. A poor one at that.
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are supposed to be AMAZING!!?!? I sooooooo can't wait for this one. I had to skip past the spoiler, since I'll be seeing it with my own eyes on the 28th!!!
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Then you aren't worth explaining things too. I might aswell go and have the same conversation with my dog since I'm pretty sure he'd at least be able to grasp the concept. You want a technical explanation, see my earliers posts for Nutsack but the main reason is they'd look like giant shit toys running round on screen if they even tried to do it. You can take that to the bank.
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Wouldn't appear in ANY movie, not just a michael bay movie. Nice try though MOM, keep up the hard work. You might be able to make some kind of argument tonight, i don't go to bed for another 5 hours or so, do your best.
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About skewing the words that a persons was saying like regularfacetoht. He was not saying that Ironhide should be a Minivan. What he is saying is that The Color Scheme could have been the same and it wouldn't make a difference to the NON-fan. I've said the same thing about the head designs and whats funny TASE you and I had a discussion About how silly THESE transformers would look with human facial features well I'm sure you know about Primes lips, Jazzes Lips and nose, Megatrons Teeth and the other rediculous features that you yourself said "would be silly"
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It was clearly marked for . But, just to set the records straight, even if you're NOT an artist or director i'm pretty sure you wouldn't like people taking a big dump on your work, regardless of what you do, before people have a chance to fully asses it. The fact that you are obsessive is only relevant to you and your therapist.
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Well, best you call me a liar then, because nobody - and I MEAN nobody use the phrase 'muscle car' just outside Leeds where I live; certainly not to describe a fast car.
Once again, if someone disagrees, they're a liar, eh?! *Yawwwwn*
The reasons why the wouldn't transfer to screen has been put forward more times than enough, but here goes:
G1 TF's look dated and boxy.
G1 TF's don't truly TF; they 'morph', disregarding size and mass.
They are not realistically constructed to be able to physically move correctly; they're supposed to be metal, but sometimes their limbs bend like rubber.
All my opinion of course, but there's probably many that would agree with me. -
does not that count a appearance what about, Herbie the Love Bug, I I'm sure I saw a Poche Cayanne in a spy movie or two.
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does not that count a appearance what about, Herbie the Love Bug, I I'm sure I saw a Porche Cayanne in a spy movie or two.
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I'm still laughing that Pawprint is now conveniently ignoring his obvious locality gaff. I used to live in Germany for a little over 4 years (Frankfurt) and did some traveling in the UK. For Pawprint to say that he's not what he's billing himself as on this site. Judging by his writing style, diction, and his asenine association of basic design aesthetics and art critique with pretentiousness (he uses the word every time applies an education to his "argument"), I would peg him in his mid to late teens OR early twenties and zero college experience.As for arguing with him, its already clear that he's going to stick to his rather childish "pink robots, molester van, beard" argument whenever someone debates him, all the while ignoring your logical, well-reasoned opinions and clinging to his adolescent "what is art?" and "no such thing as bad design" poppycock. In my experience, kids who make those kinds of arguments are the ones who never did their homework. Is Pawprint a plant? Of course not. However, in this thread at least, he is acting like a troll. There is no debating with trolls and so I chose not to. If you don't want to waste your time, I suggest you dont get into it anymore with him. ........................Can anyone else believe that this thread has gotten near to two thousand posts?
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Every single person, regulars that is, knows I'm English. I've said it a million times. Whatsmore, I've been an active participant in nearly every TF thread and many other talkbacks that are non-tf related. Don't even try to discredit me; you only make yourself look even more stupid. You are a liar who is trying to make a point, a poor one at that, and know you're clammering to back up you lie by trying to discredit the person who just exposed you for the bullshitter you are. For the record, we don't use regularly use the term muscle cars since they refer to american cars, which in the UK are a niche market for the overpaid. Infact, regular american cars have only just started being sold here, (those old petrol guzzlers were too big for our roads didtcha know?), so please, don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have. I suggest you find the hole you crawled out of this morning, climb back into and see what tommorow brings since it's got you sweet FA today.Phategod, if people are so pent up over even colour schemes then it's a more fucked up world than I imagined. You know there are people dying of starvation in Africa, children being blown up in the middle east; there's shit going on everywhere. If more people choose to get more annoyed over the fact that Ironhide isn't Mauve anymore than the fact that real dictators like Mugabe in Zimbabwe kill thousands of people each year, then there's something terribly wrong. Could they have kept the old colours? Yes. But they didn't, why lose sleep over it?
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Its a fucking toy range too you thick twat. Nice try though. Whenever you want to throw your next stupid question at me, i'll be ready to make you look even more rediculous.
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"I used to live in germany for a little over four years and did some traveling in the UK. For Pawprint to say that he's unfamiliar with the term Muscle Car is absolutely shocking. You UKers are intensely familiar with the term. Furthermore, if pawprint doesnt associate the new camero with the term muscle car, he's either extremely unfamiliar with automobiles or simply appologizing/arguing in this thread for hte sake of argument itself (see troll). It would appear that Pawprint isn't what he's billing himself as on this site." Sorry for that--for some reason, I posted while in the middle of pasting. Dunno how I did that.
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I made the mauve molesterer van crack and I stand by it. Honestly, would you really be happy seeing a mauve toyota spacewagon on screen? Please.
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We know the term. We just don't find much use for it since American cars, muscle cars at that, make up such a tiny percentage of the cars running around this little island. And MOMs initial statement is that we refer to all cars with powerful engines as muscle cars when we simply do not.
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A few days ago Yackbacker Told Pawprint to quit while he was ahaed Paw took it as some type of threat, But what he meant was he was trying to let him save a little face, but again I see exactly what he and Superninja meant, regularfacetoht never said he wanted blocky G1 designs just he wanted them to be more recognizable, Is there purpose why everyones color shceme and head designs is different other then (BECAUSE BAY SAID SO)if so I'll shut up, if not it's just goes as another shinning example of Bay's lack of respect for the source THe Funny thing is Even though I've never read the Comic Book I'm sure it was alot deeper then the Cartoon. And I'm sure you comic book fans want alot more out of this movie then "Big F'n robots Blowing SH!t up." Ok I can breathe now.
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You aren't in any position to argue about designs or styling since, technically, you don't have familiarity with the franchise to make an real comparisons. You especially aren't allowed to use the term "TINO" since, by your own admission, you don't know what Transformers are and have never cared for them until now. Unless you're a mindless parrot who just squawks what he sees someone else seeing. You don't like Bay? Fine. You don't like what you've seen? Fine. Don't make any other claims since, in your admission, you don't have the first clue about what you're complaining over.
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I know you made the crack, and I completely agree with you that a stupid minivan doesnt work. But the the question was, I believe, would ironhide have worked as a pickuptruck? And that was a question that Pawprint ducked, sticking with the molester van, which you orinially coined. In any case, I think Ironhide really does work as a hummer much, much better than a minivan. In fact, I like all the vehicle choices, including the camero for bumblebee(On a sidenote, I'm really enjoying the fact that many new cars are embracing the 70's/late 60's muscle car body styles). My only issue with designs have to do with the robots themselves: far too busy. My issues with the movie, of course, extend beyond designs. As I, and a SLEW of others have said before, if this film had only one or two bad things going for it, there wouldn't be anywhere near the backlash. Also, Allseeingeye, I believe that MOM was directing his comments about musclecars to PAWPRINT (apparently, the only one who has never been familiar with the term).One final thing, ASE, how are you doing? I havent been around here in a while, and havent really had a chance to speak with you. How are things in the UK?
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So who am I to argue with you?
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Actually it's pretty hot. But boring otherwise, i've got several projects on at the minute that take up alot of my time. I dunno why but i seem to find myself drawn to these TB's despite having much better things to do.Anyway, from my perspective I can't really fault them. I remember reading that they were going for a 'techno-organic' look when they went into it. It's not an unheard of concept and one that I have no problems adhering to. For me, these Transformers, in their protoforms, look like they have 'evolved' on alien world. Each to his own I suppose but, from a technical standpoint, I think this is going to be ILM's best work and I think it deserves more credit and respect than the constant moaning and groaning of a handful of fans who wanted the robots to look like toys.
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Yes, you guys in the UK may not use the term much, but you cannot argue, as pawprint woefully attempted, that american muscle cars are not associated with power. Pawprint, in an obviously slapdash manner, attempted to disagree with MOM by saying that he associated the Camero with speed, not power. Again, a rather weak attempt by all acounts. Forgive me, but based on that argument alone, Pawprint is starting to smack of contrariety.
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Though i totally hate to use such terms, i think i'll make an exception in your case. You're an idiot of the highest calibre. Your only point is to hate something you have absolutely no real idea about and, like i said, you've admitted to not knowing transformers so really, why the fuck should anyone care for your opinion? My dad is just as unfamiliar with Transformers and you know what? I don't give a fuck what he thinks either. If you want to keep making yourself look rediculous then, by all means keep posting your inane rubbish in the hope of actually walking away from here with some sembelance of credibility but, just so you know, you've got no credibility left.
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Oh, no arguments from me--ILM has done a bang up job with the effects in this film. Sure, there are too many lines/angles/planes, which as anyone dealing with camaflouge can tell you, helps break up distinguishable silouhettes and shapes, but boy, ILM has come a long way in making things seem "photorealistic."
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is he not the target audience? evryone says there are not enough TF fans to make a movie a sucess and you have to appeal to non fans.
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Care to make that last post about Zodiac again. Evidently your rage is preventing you from making a coherent point; or rather as close to coherent as you can muster anyways.Moondoggy, i merely pointed out that we dont refer to muscle cars much since the term applies to US; its not a term we use to describe all high power cars, especially not Mercedes Benz cars
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Ironhide was purple. Mauve is a gay purple. It was there to highlight my 'molesters' point.Phategod, indeed MOM is the target audience and he can hate on Bay all he likes. But, as someone who has no familiarity with the material at hand he is in no position to criticise what he sees as being wrong since he wouldn't know a transformer from, well, a go-bot, i know you kids love your go-bots.
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Either you're getting more and more angry or you're dyslexic. You can't even string together a coherent sentence let alone make a point for me to prove.Everytime you come up with a smart arse remark you've had your own arse handed back to you. I especially loved your rap on VW and Porsche, it was so beutifully un-thoughtout it was gift wrapped for me to throw back in your face. Much like the mongoloid comment. Hilarity ensues.
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And I completely agree--just because a car possesses a high performance engine doesnt mean its a muscle car. But, and I believe the point MOM was making, and I myself am making, is that anyone familiar with automobiles knows the history of the american muscle cars. Pawprint seemed to duck that, and is still ducking, but I digress. Anywho, have a good day.
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When I think of molerster Vehicles think of Ole Rusted Chevy malibu's or a Duece and a Quater, Maybe a brown Chevy Nova. When I see Minivan 1st thought is Soccer mom. Then My mind wonders to internet porn scenario #101.
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But the cartoon Ironhide is purple. I didn't think we were talking about toys no more; didn't we all agree they were a bit childish?
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They always seem a bit seedy. Though mum taking her kids to school is one scenario, every Previa I have ever seen is usually being driven by a man in glasses with a beard; perfect photofit for a kiddy fiddler. The molesters minivan might also become say, the sex offenders minivan, or serial killer mini van, ala Silence of the Lambs, didn't Buffalo Bill have a minivan?
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VW has been veature In Herbie the Love Bug and appears in the 1st scene where Sam buys Bumble-Bee And I've Seen Porche Cayannes in spy movies.
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You're non-english native and english isn't your first language but you profess to knowing what an English person, or rather someone from the UK should sound and act like? That makes you look a little bit stupid does it not? And for the record I speak French and Spanish fluently so GFY.
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But for vehicle choices, I like Ironhide as a big truck. It's more fitting. Brawl's tank looks wicked. Starscream's jet is of course sweet. Blackout looks great. ........................ I'm talking about vehicle/alt modes ONLY. ....................... I'm indifferent about Prime save for the paint scheme. Bumblebee is very wrong to me.Jazz is very wrong to me. I don't like Rachet's paint scheme (I would have perhaps chosen another vehicle too) Bonecrusher is all wrong (or just give him a different/new name like Blackout). Frenzy could have been better realized. Megatron, well, he's an alien jet, so whatever. I think they just failed on all levels with him. Flawed execution all around. To me. Just thought I would interject and share my opinion since the designs are brought up so much. I've never really spoken up about the vehicle choices. Or the robots (I just plain don't like them). Probably already figured that out. Too bad GM was the only manufacturer they were able to afford. Sure GM offers plenty of options, but one or two more manufacturers would have really made for better choices. My problem will always lie with the script and the behavior of the filmmakers. Carry on impassioned TBers. I enjoy everyone's thoughts.
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I'll assume its just an interest rather than a desire to draw me into an argument. MOM decided to ask, yet again, why they couldn't have the original cars. I said it was partly licencing issue. He then decides to mention several films featuring VW's and Porsches, much like you just did, and thinks he's adding a witty crack about VW and Porsche not letting them be in the movie. But what he totally forgot is that licencing isn't exclusive to the movie, they're making a toy range too. Something like this, which will make megabucks, will mean VW and Porsche would stick it to hasbro for licencing fees. It's not just a case of free publicity as some people wrongly assume. GM came cheap. That's all there is to it.
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That is called 'making excuses' you seem to accuse Bay of doing it all the time, except of course when it suits your purpose. As someone who has worked for Companies who deal with licencing rights on many, many occasions, I can tell you now they don't come cheap and the fees are usually associated with how much money the end product will make. Having a VW bug in the corner of the screen costs them nothing, making a VW bug a transformer and producing a toy costs them alot. Simple eh? Much like you.
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You're fucking delusional. That's like the fifteenth time I've just pointed out your fucking hypocrisy and stupidity. I wouldn't dare tell a spanish guy he's not from spain or a certain part of spain, no matter how well I speak their language. Go read your last post, which you took way too seriously, in which you defended yourself by saying English isn't your first fucking language. So what credance does that offer to your claim that me n paw aren't English. I'll tell. Fucking none is the answer. Evidently you can't understand that because "you no speaky the english very well".
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If you pay good money you can get anything. Example case, company a, who makes a videogame, licences cars from 20 manufacturers. People as "Where are the Ferarris". Company A says, "We didn't include them because we felt we had enough supercars already". Real answer is "We didn't include them because they were going to shaft us for millions just to put their badge in the game so we only bought licences from the car manufacturers we could get cheap". They don't tell their customers they just skimped on a popular model because they did't wanna pay. That's a true story by the way.
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These days, Licencees usually demand platform exclusivity for a certain amount of time. EA had a porsche licence last year but I think it expired.
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You've made it a little clearer or I might have missed it before. But you did say that "VW and Porshe wound't appear in ANY movie..." but now I understand thank you.
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...Bumblebee was never supposed to be a muscle car of any kind. He should have been a teeny little car like a Mini Cooper or something else of similar size. Jazz would have made WAY more sense as a Camaro. Ironhide should have been the Hummer (weird considering Bay's professed love of the miltary), Ratchet should have been a regular old Ambulance, and Prime could have easily been a flat nose truck. These are some of the strangest choices to me, and that doesn't even get into the Rubik's Cube robots the vehicles transform into.
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I meant thats what MoM said, I've always said no company is averse to selling its image. Porsceh and VW would have cost Hasbro and Dreamworks a fortune...GM evidently didn;t. It's the equivalent of going with a cheap hooker instead of the classy escort.
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You might aswell ask 'how long is a piece of string' since both questions can't really be answered. Are you really that obsessed that you cant let colours go?
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Since I rarely get a chance to do so these days and everyone is in bed so I don't have to watch shit on Living TV or whatever girly dreck is on hallmark or whatever.
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Desanto said that when he questioned Bay about the flames that bay told him the "flames would add all types of cool camera angles." Does anyone know Who Micheal Bay used to make commercials for? Heres a hint they manufactur Caddillac the Concept car He used in The Island. Any guesses If you said Gm then you are correct sir This movie is full of rediculous bedfellows and dumb decisions I wonder how many closed door hand shakes and BS go down in your average movie.
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You are getting very belligerent and increasingly incoherent and ridiculous. I'll be ignoring you now.
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Did it bother you at all that Brawl gets little to practically no screen time? And what did you think of Strider 2? Fantastic and still played in my house would be my answer.
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LOTR. Sorry. I'm a gaming nerd too. Anyway, about Brawl....
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Strider_Is_Hot?
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you might want to run a spell checker before you hit Post comment though. Het Strider is hot can I ask you a few questions aboutthe Movie. If you said yes here are my questions.
1. Why doesn't Sam tell his parents about the Autobots instead of trying to hide them?
2. How does Bumblebee happend to end up in the Carlot where spike (oops I mean Sam) Goes to buy his car?
do any of the decepticons ouside of Megatron have any speaking english lines? -
Your gamer? What are you playing right now I usually Like to play something till I beat it but I have the Damnedest time with Okami It gets kind of boring in spurts but I have to finish it. Right Now I find Guitar Hero II to take up most of my time.
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The magnificent Keith David?
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Odin Sphere, Rogue Galaxy, Advance Wars Dual Strike, The King of Fighters XI, Guilty Gear XX Accent Core, Rule of Rose, Ultimate Ghosts n' Goblins & Ikaruga. I have Okami sitting on my mantle, begging me to be played, but I have too many unfinished games in rotation right now. That and Grandia III are my next undertakings once I clean up Odin Sphere and Rogue Galaxy. Never got into the Guitar Hero hub-bub to-do. Are you playing anything else right now besides the two you listed.
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Oh, and I still play Disgaea from time to time. It's always out. Best. SRPG. EVER. EVvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR!
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1. I'm not sure, I think that he wanted the Autobots to try to remain undetected so they could find the cube without attracting too much attention... because obviously people finding out that some cars are actually giant alien robots would cause a quite a complication and probably hold up the process. **** 2. It just shows Bumblebee kinda sneaking in while no one's looking. It's cute. If I could have a crush on a car, it'd be on Bumblebee in his beat-up old Camaro style... haha. **** I guess this is Q.3 - I don't think any of the Decepticons speak English other than Megatron. I can't really remember, maybe Starscream? But I think it's mostly that Chinese-style stuff. Kinda cool, sets them apart.
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I didn't take notes during the credits, but Wikipedia says that someone named Jess Harnell voiced him.
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What about my Brawl and Ironhide questions?
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Is he in it at all save for the final fight when BB blasts him? Does he even get to transform?
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I am not a big 'old-school' Transformers fan, like I said before. I am 30 and REMEMBER the Transformers, but I could care less about the film staying true to the source material. I guess I'm one of the people that this film is targeted at, rather than the .01% of the population who knows all the names of the original Transformers. Sorry...
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No sweat. Brawl is a tank in the film. Well, in the script, I haven't seen the film. Is there a Deceptacon tank in the final battle? I believe, if I recall correctly, BB blasts the tank (Brawl). Am I right? Brawl is a double turreted tank with a mine plow on his "grill" somewhat more subdued than Bonecrushers. ????????
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Jun 20, 2007 6:45:52 PM CDT
You at least remember a tank in the final city battle?
by hewhocannotbenamed
Don't you?
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...and it gets magically smaller when touched?But the Transposeurs must have "real" physics applied to them. They need to be really real and not conveniently have things disappear or magically resiz...aw shit.
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and he does transform.
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haha - I need to see it again. The battles were crazy at the end - a lot going on, but I'm pretty sure he transforms.
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Well, I'm sure there's an explanation, and it does show it resizing in a 'physical' way - not just BOOM, it's small now.
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http://tinyurl.com/2gut3q
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...it (the all-kleenex box of power)actually shrinks and takes a smaller form. It doesn't scale or anything.Nothing like a large robot transforming and shrinking into the size of a handgun, or say a large robot that changes into a tape player. Just as long as we are consistent, because kleenex is obviously not a complex photorealistic robot.(with 10,000 moving parts- that all move...all 10,000, no really, every single one of them. They move.
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No Brian Cox, no Keith David and Brawl & Blackout don't even talk. Thought they were supposed to punch up the dialogue..... There's no time for talking man! It's all lens flare action all the time! Blackout doesn't even get to smack talk Lennox whilst recieving his anal wreckage demise. Awwwww.......
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Wasn't Joe Don Baker once rumored to be voiceing Ironhide. I guess he didn't pass Bay's harsh criteria for voice actors.
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found this honey of an article: http://tinyurl.com/232rgo
Movie mogul MICHAEL BAY received death threats from TRANSFORMERS fans when he was announced as the film's director.I need to generate sympathy and what better way to do it than with sensationalism. This is Hollywood afterall. I think I make a swell christ-like figure. -
Jun 20, 2007 7:16:52 PM CDT
whoops slight malfunction...BS overload had to reboot
by 1178hunterbosser
sorry. Now where were we...Movie mogul MICHAEL BAY received death threats from TRANSFORMERS fans when he was announced as the film's director.DBS3000 says... I think I can generate more press if I assume the christ-like figure angle. People love sensationalism...This is hollywood afterall.
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Crazy. He's still an ass and a one trick pony.
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Quote: "Why would mass audiences find a red pickup truck or white Hummer unappealing?"Answer: They wouldn't. And I don't think anyone said they would. Here is the kicker - I don't think the mass audience will find a black pickup truck or a chartreuse rescue Hummer unappealing either. Apparently, the only people who do are uber-Transfans who can't look beyond G1.I've got to ask: what the heck is up with your name?! Did you forget an "o" in "hot"?
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The blockbuster moviemaker was not a popular choice to take charge of the first Transformers film and fans of the toys and animated TV series made sure he knew how they felt.Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding- TRUTH ALERT TRUTH ALERTCool, I see my new upgrade works. I need a better truth indicator. It happens so rarely I really want to know when it occurrs.
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Stick to the conversation. I think that's enough pointless hate and ridicule. It's pointless spam.
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Jun 20, 2007 7:26:24 PM CDT
Here comes "The motherlode" starring Charlton Heston...
by 1178hunterbosser
fooled ya- nope just more assy Bay goodness, and this next paragraph takes the fucking cake.Bay says, "I did get a lot of flak from fans on the internet. They'd be like, 'Michael Bay wrecked my childhood. Michael Bay, you suck. We're gonna protest this at your office.' "Some did - they protested at my old office, apparently. "But it was the death threats that really freaked me out. "I took time to listen to fans on the net and hear their comments, but I'd be like, 'I'm still gonna make my movie and I'm still gonna put flames on (lead robot character) Optimus Prime.DING DING DING DING DING DING Truth Alert Truth Alert What again? Damn, I am gonna have to modify this to be the lying ass son of a bitch unrepentant pole smoking smug douche bag detector 2.0.
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THer was alot of confusion between the VC for the movie and the Game. HWCNBN I'm also playing most of my 360 stuff which consist of Crackdown, DOA4, Marvel Ultimate alliance which takes most of time, Did you play FFXII it was pretty good and did not have lot of the love story subplot to hold it down. that and this race of Hot bunny girls.:)
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then you have my undivided attention.BTW, I have been reading your posts on (throughout) the site for the past year and I enjoy your insight and perspective.no bullshit, either.
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you know I should have read the instructions on the DBS3000 before I used it on this article. Except for the first paragraph, it's all true. Anyways, here's the last bit..."I got the impression that the fans wanted me, literally, to take these cartoons and blow 'em up and it would've been clearly the equivalent of Ghostbusters. It just wouldn't work. The robots needed to be much more complex." read what you will into that, but the previous article that went through the DBS3000 many posts above gives the distinct impression that you shit your own bed smuggy mc smug smug.Just for that, I'll go see Ratatouille, twice.
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G1 Optimus was a long nose and had flames and Bay's Optimus has no flames and a flat nose.What i'm tryin to say is that these things are pointless. It is just a case of that is what they happened to choose at the time. G1 Optimus could have easily been green or blue. They probably didn't put a whole lot of thought into it, they certainly never said "We have gone through every possible design combination, this is the most perfect choice and no-one could ever improve on it"Can any of you tell me why the old Optimus looked better than the new one without using 'well he came first' or your own inherant nostalgia as a reason?Just because a certain thing came first does not automatically make it the best and only possibility.
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BTW HWCNBN Grandia 2 was my 1st RP G (yeah I know I was late ) but it was great on the Dreamcast.
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Granted, I spout venom about this flick which surly grates on his nerves, but I don't do it in spite of him. He a good guy and I always enjoy his typed thoughts. He has yet to disappoint. Even though I refuse to see this, I actually look forward to his thoughts. I'm not a vindictive man and I hope he enjoys it. I'm just too attached to the stupid property.
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Grammar attack #309
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I have seen previously where you have asked for proof regarding where false pretenses regarding G1 have been raised. I have provided that proof and the url to the articles.Am I having fun with them for my own personal satisfaction....yes, yes, I am. Is it spam?-aw c'mon have a sense of humor. There wasn't one single time you half cracked a smile? not even a little bit? Is this only serious robot talk here about a serious film?
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just that design changes are not even a small percentage of why it will dissapoint some people.Like I always say...Batman Begins would have been still a great film if he had nipples.
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I hear the PS2 port was horrible. I too have the Dreamcast version. mmmmm Dreamcast. My favorite system right now. Love some Ikaruga and Psyvariar 2. Countless others as well. Great system. I'm oldschool/hardcore (I guess, I play them all and import like a fiend). Master System was my first console. Choplifter my first game. I'm a big SEGA fan myself, but I don't discrimiate like those crazy loyalists do. It's the games, not the system. You're a late bloomer to be sure, but Grandia 2 is a fine way to start out. Skies of Arcadia is another standout RPG on the Dreamcast. Me? Well, let's just say that Phantasy Star II is the greatest game ever. J/K. It just happens to be my favorite game. Really had an impact on me. Sure, I could pick it apart, but I love it so. Wish the remake would get localized. I don't read Japanese too well. My wife is more of the FF fan in my house. But, the Viera race are hot (FFA2 looks promising). I look forward to the bunny race in XII. Lulu from FFX was nice to look at. 360? Moon Knight is in that version of Marvel Ultimate Alliance right? Play any Lost Planet? Got your Legendary Halo 3 on preorder?
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I've got fans?! Sweet!1178Hunterbosser - Now that I've got your undivided attention...thanks.HeWhoCannotBeNamed - Thanks as always, buddy. And the only thing that might get on my nerves is that I think you know better! Ha! But what kind of men are we if we are not passionate?
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I was there when the server/site was updated late that evening and the whole thing went in the shitter, in fact I was posting at the time....yeah and right before that was the classic Indiana Jones and the...tb.alas...good times
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Dreamcast - best console everPowerstone, crazy taxi, fighting vipers, toy commander, Shemue....
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I know you are trying to stay on the fence here. (open minded) So, from your perspective when you read those articles and the Bay one, what is your impression of him, as a person. I imagine you have not met him and that articles can be "leaning", but I am sure that you have read more than a few. So, what are your impressions of Mr. Bay. and not as a filmmaker- as a person?
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I might get it as a Gift But Im looking forward to GTA 4 and Assassins Creed and I know the Sony fanboys are going to eat me alive for this But I Know MGS4 will be ported one day. I just read in the newspaper that as far as Videogame consoles the PS3 is in 5 place behind the DS the Wii the PS2 , the PSP, and the 360. and they will probably report a $500 million loss from the gaming division. But you gotta play Guitar Hero Even if your not into rock music this game is fun especially on Medium to hard mode. I cant wait till GH 3 and Rock band come out.
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Mars Matrix, Shikigami no Shiro 2, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, Project Justice, Bangai-O, Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves (freaking tightness!), Street Fighter III: Third Strike and the ultimate release day title SOUL CALIBUR!
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Classic goodness Damn you sony for taking my jab button.
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I ordered Soul Caliber 2 for my gamecube of amazon 3 months ago and it still hasn't come!I wana play with LINK!
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Of course I know better and I have no excuse for some of my childish comments. I've really enjoyed this property for a good two decades plus and I still feel as if they are really not showing it the respect it deserves. It's lasted so long for so many reasons other than toy sales. Now, I think (hope) you would have to admit that I am not as bad as some. Sure it's a property aimed at children. Sure it's being re-envisioned for the current crop of kids. I was just expecting more substance. More tightness instead of shiney looseness. Apparently I am very unrealistic. Oh well. I think you would be hard pressed to argue/validate the behavior of the filmmakers associated with this. Not professional in the least. Take the high road guys. Instead, well, you know what has transpired... Even though we differ in opinion/outlook, I have always enjoyed your posts. Just like a few other chosen stalwarts of this site. I hope all is good in your life right now. My kid is turning three tomorrow and we are (shocker) taking her to the zoo. So life is good here. Be well. Try some Old Pulteney 12 year single malt if you are ever jonesing for a new scotch.
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Wait till you do the spank move. My poor GC has been collecting dust since I beat Twilight princess
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I didn't mention it, but I'm rolling RE4 as we speak. I play that game to death. Mercenaries rocks. Some of those high scores online are hard to come close to. Never liked SC2 or SC3 as much as the first. Soul Blade was fun back in the day, but when Soul Calibur came out? Holy Tightness. The soul still burns. What a great game; and I am certainly more of a SNK 2D fighting kinda guy. Not the biggest Metal Gear fan - I'm more of a Devil May Cry and Resident Evil guy. Bring on RE5! You know it will be worth the wait. I just cannot stand the GTA games. I know, I'm a freak. No offense, I just don't care for them. Assassin's Creed looks sick. Jade Raymond is quite possibly one of the most beautiful women on the planet. Nice to see some other gamers on the site.
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...and stationed in Germany he all of the sudden started using "bloody". Bloody this and bloody that, but no where else in any of the other posts- what about blimey and talk about bay being the dog's bollocks? Bob's your uncle on that one, mate. It's like me saying I'm from Australia and going, "G'day mate"- "a dingo ate my baby"I'm not saying it isn't true- just thought it was kinda funny....ya'll. I'm from Texas,see.
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I just can't seem to enjoy those games. Maybe if I revisit them in a couple of months or so. I just recently bought both, due to all the crazy positive reviews. Oy. They're just not entertaining me yet. Super Metroid is stellar. Gaming genius. I think I am still hung up on the whole Metroid is not a FPS thing. I'll try them both again later. Who knows?
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is a perfect game. Actually managed to get full ratings on every mercenary character and level and complete the game on profesional.Was it you who i was talking to about introducing the child to studio ghibli?
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a chore I Could beat it right now if I want to but the thing that pisses me off about that game is you have to find all the dame bombs and Missles to get "The Best ending" I think i was at 94% when I stopped caring.
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Damn man, you stole my thunder. I was gonna use that for my response to MNG about Bay."I think you would be hard pressed to argue/validate the behavior of the filmmakers associated with this. Not professional in the least. Take the high road guys. Instead, well, you know what has transpired..."Extremely well put, I might add
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takes ages to get into and gets a bit repetitive towards the end.I'm finding I can't afford to take the step into the next generation with a child on the way (xbox 360 + HDTV= lots of money). Picked up a second hand game cube a year or so ago and have found an endless suply of brilliant games to keep me going.Killer 7, Beyond Good and Evil, Freedom Fighters, Lego starwars 2, Mario Sunshine.
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"Some people are saying that Transformers is the film Michael Bay was born to direct. It takes his keen ability to destroy the screen with mind blowing action and marries it to an 80s cartoon aesthetic. Bay stays so true to the roots of the Transformers series. Not one single fan is going to be disappointed (but I'm sure they'll find some reason to complain).
Known for such films as The Rock, Armageddon, Pearl Harbor, and Bad Boys II, Transformers will go down in history as Bay's one perfect piece of action bravado.
Seriously, once you see the picture, you'll realize that there's not much you can bitch about. For what it is; the funcore giant robot flick is flawless."
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true if you are not a big TF fan.I was arguing with my little sister about FF:ROTSS being shit and she was saying that why should she not enjoy it? She had never even heard of Fantastic Four before the films came out.I suppose if someone just doesn't happen to have read every TF comic ever written etc then why would they care about character changes and stuff.That is the reason we all keep arguing, the majority of the population are not TF fans.
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then 90% of us have a fondness for the source material so we all take the same side if the formula is messed with.Only a small percentage of us are die-hard TF fans so there is a split when it comes to them messing with the formula.I can't wait for HeMan and Thundercats to be made, I can't think of anyone who would care if they made changes to the Thundertank design or the color of HeMans trunks so there prob wont be a single argument about them.
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Yep. That was us talking about kids and ghibli. Resident Evil 4. Handcannon. Yeah it's kind of dumb, but it's worth unlocking it just to see Leon heft it behind is neck on the Weapons/Recovery screen. I have Beyond Good & Evil on PS2. Great game. Sorely underrated. And to touch on something you said in your last post, due to who I am, I'm not sure I could enjoy this film even if I wasn't a TF fan. I just can't stand Bay's stuff. But I am clearly a minority. His movies make mega bucks and sell like hot cakes on DVD, so, you know, he's doing something right.....
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Thanks. I appreciate the complement. I wouldn't say I'm a wordsmith, but I do the best I can. At least I don't use that horrible l33t speak or whatever the hell it's labeled as. Speak English kids!
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When i was 15 I loved him, his style and non-stop action seemed so cool and unique at the time.Then when I got a bit older I refused to watch his films, i got into more intelligent cinema and needed some substance in what I watched.Then within the last couple of years I have kind of grown past that, now there isn't really a type of film I can't enjoy including Bay films.I stand by all the reasons I used to say he was a hack but now I seem to be able to enjoy him for the shallow style alone. I don't try and get anything else from his films and the same goes for many shallow action films, now I simply enjoy them and look elsewhere for more substance.I think it is because when i was a bit younger I expected evey film to fulfil all my needs wheras now I let each film serve its own purpose.Don't know if that makes any sense to anyone.
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regularfacetoht what the hell got you banned you almost have to annoy everyone here for 18 hours strait to get the attention of any staff but I saw last month they did get a little Stalinesque one guy said something about how harry used to be alot more objective and less forgiving of these "Summer popcorn movies" and he was banned minutes later. I've seen other staff member go back and forth with Talkbackers but I think Harry's gotten a little crotchity.
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Good to hear from you.
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Ah, OK. Cool. Thanks for the explanation. For some reason, everytime I read your name I thought it was regularfacetoHOT. (In which case the "to" would have to be changed to the more grammatically correct "too". Heh.)And I do remember your former name. What did HeadGeek ban you for?And I think "vanity" is the wrong word when dissecting Bay's approach to certain aesthetic choices. I don't think he was choosing anything out of his own personal vanity per se. However, I do think he was very interested in bringing something new to the table for the franchise as a whole. It may very well be that his legacy down the road will be that he went against the grain of those who tried to keep the movie more inline with all-things-G1.And you'd be surprised to know who those people were. From what I've read, no one fought harder for the film to remain more faithful to the G1 mythos than Don Murphy, Orci, and Kurtzman (from Prime's mouthguard to the color of Ratchet). But it sounds like they were outgunned by the other cooks in the kitchen (i.e. Lorenzo de Bonaventura). Ultimately, since it is his movie and he's the director, Bay had the final say in everything.
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i appreciate you taking the time to reply. It sounds like you enjoyed it. Also sounds exactly like the draft script I read, which I found terrible. :)
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This movie is the 1st possibly second after Spiderman 3 where I'm waiting with baited breathe to hear the Commentary on the DVD.
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*shakes fist*
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to be non-furry. But Battle-Cat has flames instead of stripes. And Orko is a phedophile.
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What about furry chaps? Compromise?
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c yas next week
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First of all, the 12 year Old Pulteney is on my shopping list. I will definitely grab some on my next ABC Store visitation.Second, you are by no means as bad as some who post in these TBs! (Certainly didn't mean to give that impression.) I just know how passionate you are about the property and I understand your frustration/disappointment. The filmmakers are gonna do whatever they feel they have to in order to make a successful film. But I think this film (and the choices of those filmmakers) will be put to the test when it finally opens on the big screen. After all is said and done, it will be the viewing of the film (by those still interested) that will be the deciding factor. And at this point, I'm still looking forward to seeing it.Finally, thanks for the kind words regarding my posts. I enjoy reading yours as well. TB is always best when there is a good cast of characters riffing off each other. So, keep it coming.Cheers!
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What do I think of Michael Bay as a person? Are you serious with that question???Well, I think Michael Bay is a super fantastic human being. Why? Because if the rumors are true, Bay has snorted some of the finest blow off the bodies of some of the most beautiful Victoria Secret models this world (or the one after) has ever known!Any guy that can pull that off deserves my respect. Who cares about his movies or his technical skill as a filmmaker.
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I think Murphy attacked the fans loooong before Bay ever said anything. And as far as I know, Bay only made one statement regarding the fans' "issues" and it was directed primarily at the AICN "dickhead" Talkbackers.When it comes to the fans, my problem lies with Murphy and not Bay. Whether you like Bay or not, the guy has taken an incredible amount of flak from people online and he's just barely managed to keep himself from getting entagled. Meanwhile, Murphy became the equivalent of a messageboard troll. I think we can all agree that is no way for a Hollywood producer to behave. (Do you hear me, Fartgod?!)
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There was nothing to manage with Bay, he was always going to do his own thing. Murphy and the screenwriters made it WORSE by sucking up to the fans and making stuff up. Happens every time. Seen it happen on comic book message boards where the writers show up and by the time it's all done people are seething hatred towards each other. Creative people can drop by and say hi but when they are in the process they should not get chummy with the fans when it comes to the work. Who is going to respect someone's creative work via democracy? That's ridiculous.
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would shut up and stop riling up the fans and telling him about it every 5 min.
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"I'm still laughing that Pawprint is now conveniently ignoring his obvious locality gaff. I used to live in Germany for a little over 4 years (Frankfurt) and did some traveling in the UK. For Pawprint to say that he's not what he's billing himself as on this site."
What locality gaffe? What part of British soldier living in Germany do you not understand? Here's how it breaks down - I'm British, right? Born and raised in BRITAIN, little farming village near Leeds - that's where I LIVE. Now I'm a soldier in the BRITSH Army stationed in GERMANY, in Osnabruck, actually. Where's the gaffe?
"However, in this thread at least, he is acting like a troll. There is no debating with trolls and so I chose not to. If you don't want to waste your time, I suggest you dont get into it anymore with him."
So, I'm a troll then am I? Is this what we're labelling people who disagree with you now? So, I'm not engaging in debate or anything, no? I'm just popping up and insulting people with no contribution to this thread? Or do you just ignore people now who refute your arguments?
"As for arguing with him, its already clear that he's going to stick to his rather childish "pink robots, molester van, beard" argument whenever someone debates him, all the while ignoring your logical, well-reasoned opinions and clinging to his adolescent "what is art?" and "no such thing as bad design" poppycock."
The bearded robots and pink lady robots issue was dropped ages ago; nobody came up with a satisfactory explanation. "Logical, well-reasoned opinions"?! Ho Ho Ho! Fuck me, anyone who is a TF hater automatically has "logical, well-reasoned opinions", do they?! Or do you just mean anyone who agrees with you?! Appreciation of ANYTHING is all opinion - trying to argue otherwise just makes you look like a dick.
"Robocop and The Iron Giant, two movies that, you know, surpassed the "robot genre kick ass2 limitations and delivered something more, something deeper, somwething better. Fucking hell, stricktly speaking you could call Metropolis a robot movie too, sicne Maria the Robot is not only one of the most pivotal characters of the movie, it's evne it's most memorably and iconic imag,e andyet, that movie gets to be a bit more thyen just "robot kicks ass", doesn't it? so, really, your defense of TINO beyond all that we get to know so far, and with all the admited flaws the mvoie has given by 3 reviews provided by peopel who suposedly LOVED IT, i have to ask you, what rhe fuck man? Where is your optimism come from? From blind faith and nothing else!"
My optimism comes from what I HAVE seen, trailers etc. Also the fact that anyone who has seen this film so far has not come away anything less than entertained. I have been excited since I first saw the teaser trailer. How the fuck can you compare TF's to Robocop and the Iron Giant?! Completely different styles of film. Yes, they all have robots in them, but in that case why don't you lump Metropolis and Short Circuit together then?!
Regularfacetoht; I apologise, I didn't even notice your questions about colours of vehicles/styles of vehicles, but MNG's answer is exactly how I'd reply:
"They wouldn't. And I don't think anyone said they would. Here is the kicker - I don't think the mass audience will find a black pickup truck or a chartreuse rescue Hummer unappealing either. Apparently, the only people who do are uber-Transfans who can't look beyond G1."
"and alien race of robots or whatever, that can mimicky themselves into automobilles, for whatever their reasons, and they all decide to mick cars from only one brand? Only Mg cars?"
Not suspicious it's called 'product placement'; they use it to make money by making people want to buy the manufacturer in question's cars, etc. If that's going to really ruin your enjoyment of this film, you have my sympathies. That said, it is a bit of an underhanded practice - the only thing I could think of which would be worse is using the same trick on kids - say, by marketing a cartoon aimed at kids which tries to sell them toys... oh, wait...
"Yes, you guys in the UK may not use the term much, but you cannot argue, as pawprint woefully attempted, that american muscle cars are not associated with power. Pawprint, in an obviously slapdash manner, attempted to disagree with MOM by saying that he associated the Camero with speed, not power. Again, a rather weak attempt by all acounts. Forgive me, but based on that argument alone, Pawprint is starting to smack of contrariety."
Fuck me, is that all you've got? Can't find any serious flaws in my arguments anywhere else, so you're going after THAT?!
Believe it or not, there are MANY places in the UK where American culture hasn't insinuated itself totally. The only other phrase I can think of to describe anything like a 'muscle car' would be a 'max car', owned by a 'chav'. If you read back, several other people have agreed that the phrase 'muscle car' is not in widespread use in the UK (it's not in ANY kind of use where I come from).
Suggest you move on and try another angle/argument - because that one's horse-shit. And the one where you try and tell me I don't know how to 'appreciate' anything properly...
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As I've said elsewhere, that one trailer mirrored fan expectations: when we heard news of a Transformers film in the works, we thought we were being taken to the Porsche dealership, yet discovered it was a trick, when Bay was signed on as director, and that in actuality we were headed for the junkyard.
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of em! to actually get that riled up about a fucking cartoon to send death threats or to argue the existence of fucking girlbots, you guys need to take a fucking break, how sad a bastard are you guys anyways? i mean really, what the fuck is wrong with your upstairs that you care so passionatly about a fucking 80's cartoon? or any of you even remotely in a relationship? you all remind me of that dude from 40y.o. virgin only waaaaay sadder... fucking death threats... fucking movie makers not listening to us... not G1 designs... we were told it would be this and that... bunch of fucking whineing noncebags the lot of ye.
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What is it you're basing your opinion on, if I may ask?
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And that's the bottom line - if somewhat roughly put!
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So he's basing it on the mere fact that Bay is directing then? Not from his own judgement on having WATCHED the film?
Agreed, a director's previous form is usually a good indicator of quality; but not always. SW Ep I is a good example: taking the SW OT into consideration, in the run up to SW Ep I, expectations were high - it was George Lucas! It was Star Wars! How could it possibly be bad?! And then we all saw it.
I think it is safe to say that the general concensus was that GL had fucked up with that.
Bay will never be considered as one of directing's greats, but the man generally knows how to film action and entertain.
I have said all along that I like the LOOK of TF's, and am excited to see it - if it blows goats, I'll come back here and eat a large slice of humble flavoured pie. -
I think bongo123's main point is how overwhelmed he is that people are actually issuing death threats over something this trivial.
When put into perspective with what goes on in the outside world, it shows just how RIDICULOUSLY some people are overreacting over a peice of entertainment. -
"Imagine if they had STUCK CLOSELY or diRECTLY to the cartoon? This movie woul have BLOWN spider-man out of the water. You would have finally seen your movie to contend with Titanic."
And you seriously believe this?! I am so stunned, I don't even know where to begin...
"People, I'm one of them, have told you since the day the script surfaced, that this movie is going to be shit. That the trailers and tv clips and all other leaked info confirmed that the leaked script was indeed filmed, and was every bit as ass as the script it was filmed from. Yet you and many other seem to ignore that."
Oh, sorry - I've been TOLD, have I? I'm sorry I made the fatal mistake of trying to form my own opinion, or of giving this film a chance until I can see it or judge for myself. Well, now I realise I've been TOLD - I'd better start following the herd and getting up some irrational hatred then, eh?
Yes GL DID only direct one SW film prior to TPM, but don't write off the fact that he wrote and produced ALL the SW films. Writing that off makes your argument so much simpler doesn't it?
Before the SW PT, GL was mostly gold - barring Howard the Duck. His reputation was such that TPM was hugely anticipated as a potential masterpiece. Nobody was worried that he was directing the film.
"Transformers rules all man."
Jesus. You're not one of those who issued a death threat are you?! -
reading your previous posts im pretty fucking certain your one of those nerds that takes all this shit so fucking seriously that you and your nerd mates were probably behind the death threats... jesus christ man, what age are you?!? you sound like a fucking cybertronian taliban, ITS A FUCKING MOVIE YOU MORON NOT REAL LIFE, ITS A FUCKING CARTOON NOT REAL LIFE dude the reason i cme on here is because i love movies, i love artsy foriegn films and i love big dumb blockbuster and i love to read how fucking anally retarded you fucking G1 80's throwbacks really are.. quite simply mate, i come here to marvel at just how low some of you nerds really can sink too and each and everytime i read a new talkback, its fucking lower and lower, you sad bastard!
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and its good crack winding up people who are obviously extremists, like you G1 fans... man nothing cracks me up more than you diehard fanatics... its only a movie and its looks like a great movie and thank fuck Michael Bay directed it and thank fuck he changed those stupid ass G1 designs, the flames rock! :)
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That's fucking beautiful! LMFAO! Permission to use that in further conversation?!
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sums these fucks up... and i see yet more glowing reviews have came in to further shut the fuckers up
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Where?!
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Jun 21, 2007 10:50:21 AM CDT
Fans "are", and in this case "were" the repeat business
by 1178hunterbosser
Big opener with no legs.
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I was wondering where you were. what an ordeal.
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are crazy. Bay was always going to do what he wanted, Murphy acting like it's a "learning process" for Bay - too funny. No one tells Bay and his giant bag of coke what to do!
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to come along and change stuff which attracted people to the property to begin with. This has lasted long enough to attract Hollywood's attention years later to make this movie. So by dumbing down the original concept, they intend to attract more people than they originally did? What's going to keep them coming back for more?
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You suck as much as this movie did.
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