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Made In America!! The Last SOPRANOS Ever!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Does Tony get whacked?
Most guess no. It’s too obvious, and wouldn’t prove as satisfying for the fans as one might think.
Because Tony lives, other big stuff has to close out the series. I would not be shocked if the first scene this week was a flashback to a secret meeting between Phil Leotardo and Paulie Walnuts Gaultieri. Phil probably offered to let Paulie serve as the new boss of New Jersey operations - under Phil’s new leadership. Maybe Paulie betrays Tony, maybe Paulie betrays Phil. Something tells me Tony will kill Paulie no matter who Paulie decides to back at the end. This is not a tale of heroes.
I think Tony’s going to lose daughter Meadow. Meadow used to a be one mouthy little bitch. Then one season, suddenly, she was an angel. Attentive to her parents. Seeking to help the disadvantaged through law or medicine. Karma (and David Chase), I suspect, will punish Tony by taking Meadow and leaving Tony with people who hate him, the selfish and self-absorbed Carmella and A.J. and Janis.
If Tony lives, Phil probably has to die. The only satisfying way I think to resolve this plotline. But I’m guessing it won’t be the New Jersey family that takes him out. Remember how Phil’s heir apparent was gunned down in front of Silvio? The Leotardo organization has problems that have nothing to do with Tony Soprano. Phil might get hit by a some random truck when he hears a funny noise and runs out into the street.
Junior is rumored to reappear. With Bobby dead, Janis would have to broker a reconciliation. Maybe now that Junior’s finally taking his meds he can think straight, and counsels Tony on how to deal with Phil’s now-leaderless mob? Maybe by installing halfwit Little Carmine Lupertazzi at the top as Tony’s puppet?
But how do those middle-easterners fit in? After the New York business is resolved, does a new threat emerge? Would it not be ironic if one of those Arabs was working for the FBI and in possession of damning evidence against Tony?
HBO says of tonight’s installment, “Made in America”:
The final chapter in the saga of The Soprano Family. Written and directed by David Chase.
9 p.m. Sunday. HBO.
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FIRST
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SECOND is the New First!
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Tony takes out Phil. Arabs are undercover for the feds. FBI takes down Tony perhaps? Or the Paulie working with NY wouldn't shock me...but you literally never know with this show.
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because Hostel Part II effing sucks
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...going alll "I predict this will happen, that will happen" on us. Tool.
Still love ya, Herc. -
rises from the dead and saves Tony from Phil Leotardo.. then WACKS him himself!! ......i'm just sayin!
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I've read a lot of "spoilers," a lot of them highly conradictory. Do you have a link to the spoilers you think I read?
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Zombie Vito anally rape Finn, or I will be very upset. Finn probably deserves it for breaking Meadow's heart.
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After Jack Bauer shows up and tortures everyone for intel on those two terrorists from the Bing ("Where's the Capicolli!!!!")
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I don't want this show to end
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come on, Vito ( alive or undead ) was SOO not a top!!! if Finn is to be anally raped, it's going to be by Silvio.... uh.. as soon as he wakes from his coma..
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Or...even better.... Tony sees his precious ducks. He goes for a swim with them. They fly away suddenly. Tony gets out of the pool to dry off. That's when it happens. The Bear comes out and starts attacking Tony. The show ends with him being devoured by the Bear. Sweet!
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There have been 4 possible endings filmed.
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If there are no fucking spoilers. Herc you are an idiot vagina. Stop waisting our fucking time you fuck head.
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There have always been great shows and there always will. But since The Sopranos started it has always seemed as if we have had a significant collection of shows which are not just great, but the best of the best. I wonder if we are now headed towards the end of the current Golden Age?Gone are The Sopranos, Six Feet Under and The West Wing. About to go are The Wire and BattleStar Galactica. Hopefully we still have the finale of Deadwood to come. I think soon there will be a few great shows around instead of a whole host of near-perfect intelligent dramas as we have had recently.I won't call time on the Golden Age proper until The Wire has finished, as that is commonly held to be the single greatest television show of all time. While that is still on the air we are still in a Golden Age. But one thing which may have hastened the end of this period is the dismissal of the HBO chief after his arrest. A changing of the guard at the producer of the highest-calibre shows of recent times may freshen things up over time, but in the short term I think it's going to be a bit bumpy.I'm not saying that this is the end of great TV. Just that it may be the end of a near-perfect period for the highest calibre TV drama.Also, a few years ago I think I read that David Chase said that "however it ends for Tony, it won't end well". So I really am hoping that it does end badly for Tony. Maybe by taking the rap for something that AJ does. Or being arrested because of something a member of his family does. It really would be fitting for the final episode of this show to see the worlds of Tony's family and 'the family' collide in brutal fashion.
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He is an evil genius who knew I would click on the link. Brilliant!
Will the final episode of Sopranos be as good as Matrix: Revolutions? -
or REBA.
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Melfi pops up out of a dumpster and blows Tony away with an AK-47. As he's dying, she admits that she and Phil Leotardo are actually one in the same: He takes over the body every other day. She says the reason that they couldn't find Phil is because he'd morphed into her. This then sets up the spinoff where Phil leads the New York family while coping with the strange condition of morphing into a female psychaiatrist.
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Actor Tony Sirico demanded (and got) as part of his contract, the requirement that his Paulie character wouldn't rat out the Sopranos, or that his character would be a backstabber.
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By golly, if Vito doesn't come back from the grave and poke Finn, I'll kill my dog. I'll do it.
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Apostle. I've thought basically the same, except with out the expletives
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the most interesting thing is that we know from the start Chase said he knows exactley how he's going to finish it. being that Dr. MILFi was a crucial part of the theme of the show from the beginning, i think she will somehow be involved in the end.
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the Paulie Walnuts thing is to obvious, i think it'll be a smoke screen for something else. Like right at the moment when we think Paulie is going to betray him, it's going to be someone else.
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I really, really don't want it to end. I am very bittersweet about tonight. Ahh well. Going to the market in a few to get the ingredients for our "Farewell Sopranos" dinner .... baked ziti (for Bobby Bacala), some Ruffino Gold Label, some cannoli and sausage and peppers. My inner Dago will be raging tonight.
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does anyone really want a link to them?
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yes!
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only go to the 2nd page, if you want to know what the washington post reports as the spoilers for tonight. this link is to the 1st page. you've been warned.http://tinyurl.com/344uds
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Whereby further projects fail to the extent that they return to the show that made them (pun intended). I know that makes me really selfish, but that's how much I love this show. The thought of no new episodes of Spaced, Black Books, Oz, Top Buzzer and now The Sopranos to look forwards to is extremely disheartening. Oh yeah, The League Of Gentlemen is coming back, for those who care to know.
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Spoilers for the series finale of The Sopranos? Arguably the greatest television show of all time can be reduced to a link posted by a fanboy on Aint it cool? Come on. Let's watch this one fresh.
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That synopsis had more things happen than happen in an entire season of this show.
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Herc, have you actually watched the Sopranos before? Aside from the Big Pussy finale of season 2, these things tend to go out with a whimper rather than a bang. I think we got the rest of our excitement last week.
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the real rat in Tony's crew is Patsy Parisi. His twin brother was killed by Tony, and though he has seemed to put this behind him, my bet is he never really has. He was also upset in the way Tony handled the Tony B matter with Phil Leotardo. The way he was "missed" when Phil's guys hit Sil was also suspicious. He was in a hurry to get Sil to the parking lot, and then at point blank range he was not shot, and he totally missed hitting Phil's guys. My bet: if Patsy shows up in the last episode it will be to betray Tony.
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who's a fanboy. someone asked, i posted a link that is embedded 2 deep, so you cant screw up and see what you dont want to know with a huge warning. its called choice. if someone wants to know, they can. if they dont want to know, they dont have to. welcome to the freedom of choice.
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yeah herc, that's a total douche move
reading a bunch of spoilers and presenting them as your 'theory'
you're better than that. -
...and I don't have HBO. Damn. I've been trying to catch up on all the previous seasons via DVD in the hope that I'll be completely up-to-speed for the final season set.This show is a true high-water mark for television. Much like "Twin Peaks", it set the stage for a lot of great shows we all enjoy today.I hope for all you watching tonight, the finale goes out in style.Salut.
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Wasn't really aiming that at you, just anybody posting any links to spoilers...I personally don't want the temptation, and I don't want some moron reading it and lining his post with spoilers (even if it's just heresay) that I may accidentally read because I want to read people having a conversation about the show, not spoilers.
Then again, I could just avoid this thread but I don't really want to... -
They CAN'T copy the resolution of Godfather 3. That would be retarded.
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Tony is gonna go apeshit and come out of hiding probably do something irrational and leave himself open to be whacked. But I doubt any of that will happen.
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yeah i noticed that too about patsy parisi, I was thinking the same thing. also remember that his son is dating meadow :-O
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Benny kills Phil -- clearly seen from photos on The Deadwood Stage. Paulie and Tony kill Butchie. Nobody in the family dies -- as Tony says last week, "families don't get touched." Come on, think before you type.
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Big gunfight...everybody's dead...roll credits
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"I think Tony’s going to lose daughter Meadow. Meadow used to a be one mouthy little bitch. Then one season, suddenly, she was an angel. Attentive to her parents. "...it's called growing up. I take it you don't have any sisters. Or maybe you do, but they never emotionally matured...which is quite possible!
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I think he was in a Gum commercial I saw last night. No really.
Meadow ain't gonna die.
A.J. needs to be thrown around more -he's a little bitch.
I say bring on The Furio!!!! -
Anyone see this?
http://tinyurl.com/2fq3aq
Sad when TMZ.com gets it before AICN -
my, that IS quite a scoop for TMZ!
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31763 -
Jun 10, 2007 11:48:30 AM CDT
"Karma(and David Chase), I suspect, will punish Tony...
by junior frenger
"...by taking Meadow and leaving Tony with people who hate him, the selfish and self-absorbed Carmella and A.J. and Janis." The sopranos has never been a morality tale. Chase has said as much himself. I'm pretty sure you're off the mark here Herc.
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agreed. this is why I think tony will definitely survive, cause in real life the bad people don't always get punished
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SPOILER ALERT
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10101010101010101010999999999999999888888888888877777777777777777777777776666666666666665555555555555444444444444433333333333332222222222222211111111111111111111111111111111....
Dont read unless you wwant to know the ending. I got this straight from a friend who filmed the last scenes:
Carm blows up, as in kaboom over with no time to speculate that we didnt see her head blow off, burnt to a crisp good old fashion remote control bomb. It is witnessed by aj and meadow, who are on there way to a safe house, at this point aj finaly steps up, knowing his father is outmatched with little muscle left. I can hear you all ready saying aj couldnt kill himself how the hell can he kill someone else. this has been in his destiny, he will help his father. Meadow will fade to black as tony orders her off with janice and she ggives him a mouthfull about how she knew he killed that man when they went to college s1 ep 5? and he is the devil, blah blah blah. that will be the end of meadow and janice. Tony and his lowly crew with new members aj, and pat jr. will develop a plan, Tony is called to a sit down with a mafia boss we have never met or ever heard of, which I felt was kinda lame, and tony smells it out. paulie walnuts comes up with the info of where phil is (some cabin) and sends benny and aj to handle it. benny kills phil at a gas station, also alternate version of aj killing phil was left on the cutting board. Tony and paulie wipe out the remaing crew, with only carmine jr. remaing to deal with after aget harris plays him a tape of carmine and phil discussing why the hit on tony didnt go down when carmine brought him to phils houe ( phils voice saying cooler heads have prevailed was phil telling carmine the hit was off) when aj returns his father is ready for a father son mafia moment and aj is having none of it, agent harris who is acting on intelegence that tony is going to kill carmine goes to discourage him, and walks in on AJ with glock loaded pointed at tony. he tells tony that he killed his mom, bobby, jackie jr, and god knows who else and the killing stops today. before he can squeese the trigger angent harris fires a shot and hits aj in the chest, tony screams and runs to aj who dies in his arms simalar to after his sucide attempt. in the end tony is by himself, no where to go. The final scene is melfi reading it all in a newspaper at a ice cream parlor. the end.
I just want credit since I missed the Vince deal. It was my fault. The man whose hair cut said they would not draft Reggie. I surmised it was Vince and told you that.
My soure was right then and it is right now. Hair stylist always know the real deal
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A bare-breasted gun-toting Melfi comes to the rescue riding Zombie Pie-O-My. Or not. I don't know.
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I hope, what you just wrote isn't true, because if, I have to whack David Chase for ending one of the greatest TV-Shows in history in big pile of BULLSHIT. In my opinion the finale of The Sopranos has to beat the finale of SFU or least match it, qualitywise.
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I want a Godfather II ending; Tony wins and is basically left alone.
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Everyone I know who still watches this show does so out of respect for the greatness that was the first couple of seasons. I gave up after last season. The metaphysical coma dream and the whole Johnny Cakes thing was the worst example of shark jumping ever. And from what I can gather now they are just killing off main characters so that they can shock people into thinking the episode was good.
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That isn't right, in fact that spoiler is just copied and pasted from other boards. I think this one is close to right:
http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=518799&articleId=11
The only thing that seems off is the ending, but I have the feeling whoever wrote it saw one of the fake alternate endings they filmed (If its genuine at all). -
Oops. Here's the full link
http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=518799&articleId=1139&func=6&channel=Television&filterRead=false&filterHidden=true&filterUnhidden=false -
.....of this Season, scene 1. There's a montage that David Chase does of seemingly miscellaneous characters from the show playing to some background music and narration of The Seven Souls that leave the human body at the moment of death. At the time I kinda suspected that that's what it was, and given the music being played and the fact that the characters shown in that montage started dropping like flies after that, I knew I was right. The only things I couldn't figure out were why Bobby Bacala was shown in there playing with his train set (up until last week's episode where it all came together,that is) and Sil not being part of th Montage but still getting shot last week. Until they revealed that he didn't actually die but was in critical condition at the hospital. The point is, the only peope still alive who WERE shown in that opening scene to the Season are, Meadow, AJ, and Janice ( along with her baby); make what you will of that. And I'm not really sure if Carm was in the montage proper (she was in a dream sequence with Adriana during a break or pause in the music and narration) and also, Tony himself was shown at the very end of the montage with Junior; but that was just as the music was ending and the episode was actually beginning - so whether or not Tony actually survives is questionable an debatable. But everyone else shown in that scene (save for the ones I've mentioned above) who's in either of Tony's 2 families dies; count 'em:- Vito; the Capo who inherited his aunt's millions and wanted out of the family but T wouldn't let him leave; Bobby Bacala with his Train set; Carmine. Seriously, you guys oughta watch Episode 1 again even if just for that scene alone.
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.....it's been there all Season long. The only thing I should point out from the above is that Christofah was not in the Montage above, even though he got the big heave ho a couple of episodes ago, but Chase mentioned in an interview that that Chrissy's death hadn't always been planned and was kind o an impromptu thing (you could tell by how it was handled then) who's necessity will only come to light after tonight's episode. I'm guessing it's because you can't wack Tony (or have him arrested or flipped by the Feds) and not have Chris take over th family with Sil and Bobby ( and possibly Paulie) gone. So they had to get rid of him prior to tonight.
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What is this about?
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This is what actual happens.....I have scene it.
I saw a promotional copy of the last episode and while it did not include the last minute I saw enough so here we go. No joke. - AJ's car catches on fire while he is hooking up with his new girl. Very symbolic if you remember how they got that car. - Tony gets AJ a job in the entertainment industry because AJ was going to join the army to fight terrorism. - Tony goes to Junior and Junior has no idea who Tony is.This is after Janice goes to him to try and get after his money. - Phil Leotardo gets hit. He is killed by Benny at a gas station and then gets his head run over by the car he was in. - They find Phil because the FBI agent that Tony has been helping tells him where Phil is. - While Phil is away Tony has a sit down with New York and they agree to lay off and also say they would not mind if Phil is gone. The last scene they are sitting in a diner with Dont Stop Believing by Journey playing. REALLY REALLY intense and right when the conclusion is about to play out my copy ended.
Also like I said when the episode cuts off Tony, Carmela, AJ, and Meadow are at some diner and they are building the tension up something fierce. Really intense scene.
No mention of the safehouse you say? That is because nothing happens there. Phil gets whacked and they make nice with New York and everyone went home. One thing I left out is that someone is testifying to Grand Jury and Tony's lawyer says he has a 80-90% chance of being indicted in 3-6 months. They said they thought it was Patsy Parisi. Paulie thinks that a cat is bad luck and wants it gone. He also turns down a promotion based on superstition. That is the extent of his involvement in the show.
The copy I saw was dated 5/15/2007 and cut off at 59:32 but ran with blank screen until 61:04. I watched the last scene, or what I had off it and...... - Carmela tells Tony that Meadow was going to the doctor to switch birth control. - When Meadow shows up she is having trouble parallel parking her Lexus. - AJ bitches about his new job - Tony tells Carm about he Grand Jury. - When Meadow walks in they focus on two black guys instead of Meadow. Meadow walks through the shot but the focus was on them. - There is a shifty looking Italian guy at the counter of the place that Tony seems to be paying attention to. - Some biker looking guy drinking coffee solo. - The last line before it cuts off is "best onion rings in jersey"
See you lads tonight -
that he gave Tony will come in handy tonight. That's my guess. And Little Carmine will be left ruling in NY ... something he's planned all along. Carmine is a lot smarter than he looks (which ain't hard).
I hope David Chase gives all us die hard fans a treat and shows us a little Meadow with some cream on her face as a going away party. -
I say this because in an interview with the guy who plays Pauly he said that in his contract it was stated that he will never betray tony. He made sure that this was in his contract because he was at one time linked to the mob, and he felt that it was a sin to betray your boss/leader/friend. The only way he was willing to be in the show was to guarente him that he would never betray his friends.
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Yeah, I know it was covered on AICN, but I was pointing to the fact that Lost and Heroes writers are now in consideration. There was no mention of that in the AICN story.
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tony on being boss: "in the end, you're alone with it all." tony is in for hard times, but he won't die. bottom line: he doesn't deserve to be allowed to die. i love the character, but we should face the facts that tony is a bad person. which has been HEAVILY emphasized especially in the last couple of seasons. so, unfortunately, i think we very well could see a godfather 3 ending.
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That's the ending.
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heheheh
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Is a clause about not turning into a rat, which means squealing to the FEDS. It has nothing to do with switching sides in mob wars or betraying Tony. Some of you people are borderline retarded.
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My brother has been telling me shit about how there have been rumblings about a feature film some time in the future. It really wouldn't surprise me if the "movie talk" was just supposed to throw everyone off the trail of Tony getting whacked.
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Did anyone notice that in the episode where Tony and Paulie went out of town, they focused a lot on Paulie lame white sneakers? Then, in the last episode, when Sil choked the guy that they had heard was playing both the New York and New Jersey sides, the camera focused in on that guy's same lame white sneakers? Is it possible that Sil's informers directed him to the wrong guy by describing the sneakers?
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It wasn't Sil's informers who led him to that guy, that guy had approached Sil about running a coup to displace Tony at the head of the family. This was Sil's way of answering him.
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or something like that
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"We never should have left New Jersey, Carm! We have to go back!"
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And everyone dies.
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I think Zombie Christopher will bite Paulie and then Paulie will bite Tony and then the whole Jersey crew will take out New York.
Phil will be shooting at Tony but nothing will happen. -
Made in America = nuke. At least it should. What happened to the terrorist storyline?
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As has been mentioned before, Chase loves to foreshadow. In Cleaver the boss has the Chris character whacked and then he comes back as the undead Cleaver and fucks up the boss. This is a major clue as to what's to come...it's all so obvious, come on people! Zombie Chris is clearly gonna cut Tony's head off, and then rape Finn.
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Episode begins with a dream sequence. The war with NY will not be the focus of the episode but only a red herring diverting attention from bigger problems for Tony. One of Tony's family members will get arrested and the only way Tony can help will be by becoming a rat. Paulie is one of the few characters to survive. Tony will die. The new show following will be disliked at first and than will build a strong fanbase, and will last 2 to 3 seasons.
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Made in America as in Tony's a made man and Christopher became a made man and, damn, what exactly is a made man?.
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a junior in high school...
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bobby's niece is giving paulie the eye
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tony walking around with that assault rifle...
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agent harris is the S H I T
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That would be very tragic!
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That had to hurt! I hate Fords.
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raceway
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I don't have access to a TV! Please tell me what's going on!! :)
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spoiler!!!!
AJ is joining the army...maybe -
lawyers are scaring people...
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paulie vs. the cat
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Is an omen of death, methinks.
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rapping Rove?
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post some spoilers!
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"Don't Stop Believin'"! hahahahaha...a song from my youth
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Junior has CRS...
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LOST watchers know howt to post spoilers
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that's it?
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that's it?
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LOL that was awesome.
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Well well...that had to be the biggest surprise ending I could have possibly come up with...
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Seriously. But it probably made a lot of people watch the credits waiting for something to happen.
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Did the cable go out? If that was the ending, they really jerked the audience around. That last scene was tense as hell then fade to black? How dare they.
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Wow.
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That was not a FADE TO BLACK. That was an abrupt CUT TO CREDITS.
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he could as the Sopranos now live in our imagination for their future lives. But, David Chase did steal from the ending from one of the most underrated films of 1999: John Sayles' "Limbo". God bless you David Chase for seven seasons of art.
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i couldn't think of a better way to end it.
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For that cat to poop on.
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Really other shows shoud end so well. Loved how Phil got crushed.
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They didn't fade to black, they literally CUT to black. :) Which at first seemed kind of disappointing, but now that I have a minute to think about it that seems somewhat appropriate.
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Wow. They're all dead.. lmao.. great ending.
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Anyone could do a real send off of the series and wrap up a lot of more interesting storylines, but this is the brilliance of David Chase. Chase decides to focus the episode on the storyline of the series most annoying character and then just stop the episode as if he ran out of film shooting the final scene. This will get him an Emmy for sure. Bravo!
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There were onion rings being eaten like crazy! That was frickin' incredible! Munch, munch, munch... LMFAO
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I still have chills, and my heart almost pounded right out of my chest. Absolutely brilliant, and their fates? Up for us to decide. God damn, that was great television.
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They want to make a movie.
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The show always defied expectations, for good or bad.
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I thought my cable messed up. I was like. What happens next? Noooooooo! Not now! Curse the cable Gods, but then the credits started rolling. HUH??? I thought Tony was gonna get shot for sure.
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you've gotta kidding me. one of the worst finales i've ever seen.
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...they delivered what was promised all along: A show about family and the same shit we all deal with no matter what tensions your particular occupation may come with. Don't forget Phil's head got the watermelon treatment before you say nothing happened. Fun ending.
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I know you will never be able to satisfy fans with a decent finale. It's hard. I think the only finale I really enjoyed was Six Feet Under. I guess that's how life is with the open ended ending. At least it wasn't a fat crazy kid with a snow globe that had the Bada Bing inside.
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Ever.
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Don't stop....
That was it? I thought for a minute that I had lost the signal. I didn't need a bloodbath, but I expected a change in the status quo. Worst last episode ever, period. Chase copped out in a big way. -
Twin Peaks ended better.
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to possibly leave it open for the soon to be released movie??
for possible return to cable in a made for cable movie form?
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Sorry, that was lame. I wanted Drama, Tragedy. An ending that would ensure there could never be a Soptanos reunion or movie. Instead we get the copout ending. Waste of an hour
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I WILL NEVER WATCH ANYTHING THAT DAVID CHASE PRODUCES EVER AGAIN. THIS IS BULLSHIT!!!! A car is Aide and Onion Rings I am so pissed right now it is not even funny.
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I loved the fact that they focused most of this episode on AJ. Come on! What's better than spending almost an hour watching a whiney spoiled 20 year old. Isn't that why the Star Wars prequels were so special?
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They want to make a movie.
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That had to be the WORST f'ing episode of The Soprano's ever! What a way for the producers of this show to tell their loyal fans goodbye -- by f'ing them with the most boring episode ever!
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Did everyone notice....that everyone in the family was being followed .. the trucker followed Tony. The guy who went to the bathroom followed AJ and the two blk guys came in right before Meadow who was delayed parking her car. Once she enters the restaurant, all the pieces would be in place.
Yeah buddy....Contract hit. They're all dead. -
i know some will try and defend Chase, but it was just a cop-out in case a movie is made. as a season ender, it would have been ok, but not a series ender.
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Just plain fantastic ending .... life goes on. Indictments coming ... family hassles .. life goes on. When MADE IN AMERICA, you just have to, just have to go on - you just DONT STOP BELIEVING. And Tony's life is still just that - perpetual paranoia - one after the otehr - the guy in the restaurant going to the bathroom, the guy who walked in front of AJ, the 2 black guys ... loved it. Life goes on.. great ending.
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My mouth is agape. I thought my digital cable went out! David Chase ratcheted up the tension for 5 minutes and then blank f****ing screen! I don't know what to say.
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You whiners have blue balls. Guess what? We all do. You know why? The son of a bitch left us wanting more. "Don't stop" is right. The more it sinks in, the more I fucking love it.
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See, the show succeeded in doing what it needed to do--keep our blood pumping. The last few scenes in the diner, admit it, made tensions run very high. And then when the picture cut out, we don't know whether he will live or die. Everyone's happy but at the same time, everyone's pissed. I'm sure Chase knew this was coming, and I don't know if I'm the first to appreciate the ending of the show, but I did.
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...videos uploaded to YouTube for the last two hours. Looks like HBO shut that sucker down tonight. :P
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6 seasons over 8 years and that is the conclusion you get. the rumored endings were better.
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Wow. You knew they were getting ready to get hit to. Maybe the best ending to a tv series ever.
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Who has been reincarnated...um, yeah, okay.
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I know people are going to argue about this, but I could not think of a better ending. The whole point of the show - and why people connected with it - was everyday life. There were some nods to the end - I loved the cat - but, the whole finale season was the ending. Most of them did die, just not all at once. The final scene was pure brilliance; he lives his life in fear. One of the best series ever made for TV.
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I think I understand what he was going for which was to let our imaginations run wild on what might have happened but it's still a cop out. I don't pay for HBO so I can make up my own ending. You start a story, you finish it. This open ended crap is a cop out.
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Maybe they will be on the dvd.
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I called it about this episode. The whiners just never really got The Sopranos. Life goes on, plain and simple. There's no end, because it was never treated like a typical product of Hollywood. It's treated like life, and it always was. How many plot threads never had a conclusion on this show? You expected explosions or a huge, blaze of glory gun battle? I loved the tension at the end, only for them to sit down for dinner. LOL! I personally think it was a great way to end it and to fuck with everyone like that. I'm also happy I was right. :)
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with Patrick Duffy waking up and it all being a dream
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Very mixed emotions here...but I want to hold on to that slim chance that five years from now we've got a Sopranos movie on the big screen, so maybe...just....maybe.....
Brilliant work Mr. Chase. Thanks for eight years of great talk around the Monday morning water cooler. -
What did you want? Everything to be wrapped up with a pretty little bow? Life of a mobster. You never know if the dude in the members-only jacket is going to pop you, or if it's going to be the pair of young black dudes who've been paid to whack you, or if you're going to have a nice little dinner out with the family. If your life ain't over, then it just keeps on rolling forward. Fucking loved it.
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Seems like in every part he plays something gruesome or something that makes you cringe happens to him. Whether his head is getting slammed by a car door in Raging Bull. Getting beat and stabbed to a pulp in Goodfellas. Now his head gets run over in the Sopranos finale. Is it in his contract or something?
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...has now sparked a conversation that will never be answered. "What happens ton Tony?" Annoying and brilliant all at the same time.
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that dude to come out of the bathroom and mow them all down with an uzi for all you haters to be satisfied? what writing skill does that take? chase ended it the only way he could think of that no one else would have thought of before hand. disapointed at first but as the minutes pass it just seems more fitting to the series. oh well, will miss this show.
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WTF? I thought I lost the satellite signal went it went to black. Then the credits started rolling... I wasn't expecting a bloodbath, but with talks of his pending troubles, at least have the feds take him away. As a sign that even though his troubles with Phil were basically over, his getting locked up would have held some type of closure for the type of life he lead. But this? *nodding head in disbelief*
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I didn't hate the ending all that much. I actually hated most of everything leading up to the final scene. The who Meadow and the car thing wouldn't have worked at all if they didn't leak she was getting killed on the internet. Most people who didn't hear the rumors probably didn't get the tention though.
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The ending has sunk in a bit more, but still... I was bugging out for a minute. I was relaxed laying down and then the final 5 mins made me sit up because they were tense. Then boom. It was like a missing reel. I liked the episode. Stil getting used to the ending though.
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hahahhaha Chase has the upper hand on us, folks. Brilliant.
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The sense of dread was palpable, I think Chase ended it by letting the audience experience what Tony feels every second of every day. Certainly no way to live an enjoyable life- we were shown that though he lives and at the moment isn't locked up, Tony still is imprisoned.
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Somehow Chase predicted that the Anaheim Ducks would win the cup the week the series ended. F'in brilliant. Actually, it's a complete load of bullshit.
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It leaves it up to the viewer to decide. Besides, the Sopranos has always tried to base itself in real life. Chris's death coming from a car accident (Tony really but...). Totally unexpected, like real life. If Tony gets killed in that scene, or if he gets halled away by the FEDS, that's such a Hollywood ending. Watch the episode again, you won't be as pissed. In fact, if you have an open mind, you probably will respect the ending.
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Directed by Martin Scorsese and featuring a new character played by DeNiro hehe
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(Well, except for the Uncle Junior stuff - so it's funny to remember everyone saying "Uncle Junior's story arc is over! You won't see him again!") But, don't feel bad, I couldn't have guessed any better.
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Hate open ended nonsense like that. Story tellers should end their stories..not leave it up to the audience's imagination, whether it's because they were unable/unwilling to close it out themselves...ultimately its simply unsatisfying.
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Thats how you make an ending, instead of copping out with a "CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE " ending.
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i always hated that sofia coppola got so much credit for that movie, even though she wasn't brilliant enough to reveal what bill murray's character whispered into scarlett johannson's ear. it's akin to tenacious d's "tribute," where they admit midway through the song that it actually isn't "the greatest song in the world." that said, i really can't complain about this finale. not great, but not horrible, either. doesn't make me appreciate the series as a whole any more or less than i already did.
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have nothing happen just in case of a movie being made? it was bullshit, plain and simple. and to waste time with the worst character (AJ) and the worst actor(Iler)...ugh.
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Tony Soprano will die a thousand deaths before he is killed by overeating or mafia conflicts. Why? Because he deserves it, and that means that every breath he takes is stolen from the forces that seek to establish a sense of balance in the universe. Great ending. No one could have predicted that, and I like how it ended with raw cinematic technique. I totally thought Meadow was street pizza at the end when she crossed the street; as she crossed, they shot her with a deep focus lense so that the large SUV that drove behind her looked like it was careening for her. Great. Well done. Bravo. And goodnight!
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Because I knew a lot of people would be going apeshit about the ending. I know what they were trying to do, trying to relay the tension that a guy like Tony has to live under all the time. Not sure if I liked it or not, ask me tomorrow when I dwell on it for a day. I must say however that the stuff with Paulie going apeshit over the cat was pure gold.
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1.) Camera pans over to the counter where Sam Elliott looks at the viewer and says "The Big Pussy still abides." 2.) Charlton Heston comes running out of the bathroom screaming "Onion rings are made of people!" 3.) Zombie Christopher buries a cleaver into Tony's skull 4.) Bill Cosby walks out in front of the family and dances James Gandolfini into the studio audience 5.) Tony wakes up in bed with Bob Newhart and says "I just had the strangest fucking dream" and Bob says "Nevermind, I love you Jonnycakes."
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well, all good things..... I feel sorta empty with the end. I expected complete resolution to Tony. Still, I'm glad that Walnuts didn't turn on Jersey, and, if you choose, that they continued with their dinner undisturbed. That things will go on as they were, mafiosi will continue in their cosa nostra, both in New Jersey and New York, dealing and earning. I'll miss this show, it was a good run.
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That's all I got
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Directed by Francis Ford Coppola
Starring James Gandolfini
Tony Sirrico
Steven Van Zandt
and Persis Khambata as Lt. Ilia
The Cosa Nostra Adventure is Just Begininng -
"even though she wasn't brilliant enough to reveal what bill murray's character whispered into scarlett johannson's ear." Um ... the point isn't to know what is said at the end of LiT. I think you may have completely missed the point of that scene. Just like it doesn't matter what's in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, etc. etc. etc.
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Brilliant! Where do they come up with this stuff?
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Great episode. Obviously we were seeing the last scene through Tony's 'ghost'. There wont be a sopranos movie
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David Chase is a GD prick. That was a the biggest non-ending I can remember since Blakes 7.
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shut the fuck up....
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I actually had to register for an account just to vent about this. Now I get all the "life goes on" theories about this ending, however I don't find that to be a satisfying payoff. You spend 6 seasons watching a guy like Tony you expect in the end something insane is going to happen to him when it's all over. He's gonna get shot, he's gonna get arrested, his family and friends will all die, he'll become a klingon, he'll be the result of a bad dream had by Bob Newhart or an autistic kid, etc. But instead, we get "Don't Stop Believin'", onion rings and an abrupt cut to credits. Hell, I would have been happy if it ended with Meadow being hit by a car crossing the street and Tony crying over her body. A little too Godfather III maybe but it'll be something. I guess that's what I'm truly upset about, to paraphrase Bart Simpson, you know what's better than nothing? Anything! I get what they were going for, the whole theme of this season was basically "Tony may be a mobster, but he's still just a regular guy with regular problems who has to deal with growing old and leading a regular old life." But in terms of entertaining television, that just doesn't cut it for me.
Also, what the hell was the point of Paulie and the cat, or the FBI agent saying "we might just win this thing"? Two subplots that will probably never be paid off. Shame. -
FUCKING AWESOME
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And all we need for proof is the increasing slew of talk-back on here.
The last 5 minutes, we lived through Tony's eyes.... the tension was PALPABLE! That's how Tony has to live forever. Not in jail, but in prison all the same.
And what happened next?
Who knows. That's Tony's life. A long slew of variables where X is always the possibility of death.
Utterly fantastic. -
The mobster still has to spend every day looking over his shoulder. It was better than the theorized whacking or the turning states evidence plotline.
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Just when you think you know what is going to happen!!!!
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How many times did you see the mob come in the wolfpack approach in the series. Looked like at least 4 guys in the diner...gotta be the feds looking to pick him before he slipped away. That being said, I'm NOT interested in seeing a Law & Order Sopranos movie.
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anyone else pick up on what looked to be a grizzled Robert Patrick in the trucker hat drinking the coffee?
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I think the FBI guys were actually BETTING on who would win -- Tony or Phil. And he tipped the scales.
Now THAT was fucking hilarious! -
John Sayltes used essentialy the same "Lady or the Tiger" ending for the movie "Limbo."
The point- that Tony's life would be full of paranoia and uncertainty until the second he died- was made. If Meadow was allowed to complete the family the moment would have passed. It was clever. Just not satisfying. -
Mark my words. 99% of Sopranos fans will be EXTREMELY disappointed on how that ended. Hell my brother came into his room because he thought something happened with the digital cable. I did too for a second. Thats what most will think, that the cable went. When they realized no... thats the end... trust me no one will think its brilliant. Those that say it is are just idiots who just want to be different. REALLY REALLY bad ending. Good episode.. but worst final second in history. Actually the whole restaurant scene was pretty bad.. acted bad... everything.
Hell the second thing I thought, after I realized my cable didnt go out, was that David Chase was kinda copying the way Joss Whedon ended Angel... like OH CRAP WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN!
Only in Sopranos case... with that scene... David Chase totally fucked it up. Meadow was running into door.... tony looks up to see who is entering and fade to black?!?! Uh.. ITS FRIGGING MEADOW! Any other time, when it would have been less obvious who was coming in would have been better, but still crap. Oh, and guy in bathroom.. well if they wanted to make that more interesting they screwed that up too.. Badly acted by guy and you didnt think much about him. He may wack tony, he may not, he went to bathroom... but it doesnt really make you wonder much one way or the other because of how sloppy even that was done.
Trust me tomorrow EVERYONE is going to say it was crap AND they will all be right.
And imagine if they do a movie... lol... you want people to go to a movie after you ended it like that? Thats like "ok, we are greedy and want to make sure you all come to movie, so will end it like this"
If they ended it normally, with no stupid crap, people would be talking about it just as much, only for better reasons.
Cant wait to hear David Chase getting shit on tomorrow. -
From the beginning, people have been trying to make Sopranos something it isn't..something Chase did not want it to be. This is a family drama in the end.
Everyone's predictions about who gets wacked when was never what this was supposed to be about.
Chase used misdirection wonderfully in that final scene, keeping us on the edge of our seats.
But in the end, it's just a family sit-down.
ALTHOUGH - this is an ending that may be debated for years to come. Does the guy come out of the bathroom and kill them all?
Meadow's arrival at the diner was perfect closure. Tony was not sure all the members of his family would make it...and when they did, his fears were quelled.
Great stuff. -
I yelled obscenities at my tv for a few seconds before the credits came on and I realized that was the end of the show and not a DVR malfunction. I guess that ending was to show how Tony will live the rest of his life in constant fear. The guy alone at the counter, the black guys at the jukebox, and then Meadow--every time someone walks in the door or even moves, Tony looks up to see what's happening, fearing that he's about to get shot. I kind of figured the show would have an anti-climactic end, but I have to admit I hoped for a little more. I guess it was pretty realistic though. So Tony didn't get whacked--he'll end up like Junior, or die in prison like Johnny Sac or get killed by someone else a few years from now. One thing that gets on my nerves though, is when Meadow explains why she went in to law. She wants to protect the little guy from the constant "persecution" her father has gone through. She's not stupid. She has admitted in the past that she knows her dad's a mobster, so how can she keep a straight face during that speech? The level of denial that family lives in is off the charts.
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here's your summary of tonight's series conclusion, " ."
thats all you missed. -
fyi: I would totally bang Anthony's new therapist.
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I'm not buying it and I didn't expect for a blood bath, but I did expect a big payoff for eight seasons of Tony's sins.
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Showed true creativity and paid respect to the viewers.
This ending was just pathetic.
Or if the history of The Sopranos is anything to go by, maybe we have to wait 14 months for HBO to ait the final 3 mintues of the show.
The Sopranos is the most over-rated series in the history of television. Oz was far superior when it came to breaking new ground and pushing the envelope of the medium. -
And Chase is a fucking pedophile. Yeah, I said it. It was EASY to take that fucking route. He can make everyone "wonder" about what happens. Ooooooooooohhhhh. And it leaves everything open for a movie. Yeah, way to show your artistic integrity, Chase, you fucking donkey dick.
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She just told T that cuz she knew thats what he wants to hear.
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...ended the exact same way. The Italian American family sitting down to dinner.
The tension at the end was unbelievable. Thanks for the great show HBO/David Chase. You changed television for the better. That doesn't happen often -
Thank you.
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I can see Zombie Christopher doing that.
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If Tony looked up and saw Meadow enter through door it would have been even 100 times better. Better still if they all sat down. Thats what I was thinking, if they all sat down and ate it would have been a "well this is just another day in the life of mafia dad.. this is what goes on everyday" type thing... but Mr. Chase is so egotistical he probably thinks he is brilliant for ending it like that... and he is going to find out tomorrow he was wrong.
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and yknow what? Not everyone GETS punished for their sins. But T DID lose several dear friends in the end.
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What a fucking cop out. David Chase can lick my balls.
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I thought most of the episode was an absolute bore. Apart from the headsplat scene, this was probably the worst episode of the season
.....and then the last 5 minutes of tonight's show blew me away. Hell, that was tense. That one final scene was some of the best tv I've ever seen.
.......and then, we get a crappy ending. I don't mean to whine, but ultimately I wanted closure. I don't buy into the "this is how the Sopranos was supposed to end" bullshit. It just wasn't satisfying. -
What a fucking cop out. David Chase can lick my balls.
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The backs of my eyes hurt...
Way to end the series. -
The reason why it cut to black while the camera was on Tony was because he was killed. Have you ever passed out? Everything goes black...yah, so it is a good ending, just not as graphic as we are used to.
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Perfect ending. The whole point of the show was that we were getting snippets of Tony's life anyway, so why wouldn't he continue to live it? All the people who died over the years...what did they learn anyway? Nothing. And Tony really didn't either. I loved the fact that he went back to square one with his son's psychiatrist. And although Tony got some compensation from NY for Bobby, you left satisfied knowing that Janice would never see a dime of it. And after being holed up, Carmella goes back to oblivion and her next, "project". I just thought it was all so well done. And the cat? Classic Chase! They will be missed, but it was time to go.
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Seinfeld's non-ending ending at least fit with the show. This was just Chase's weak unwillingness to commit to an ending. Last week's episode reminded me why the show used to be good. This week's reminded me why it isn't anymore.
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Those who say its brilliant are posers, don't listen to them. They know taht it was crap and that since its such a big show and big finale that EVERYONE will be talking about it and EVERYONE will hate it.. so the posers saying it was great are just saying so so they can act all different like and say stuff like "oh, you just don't get it..." no dudes. We get it. And it still sucks. Thats the problem.
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I guarantee all kinds of articles written by self-righteous hacks saying what a brilliant ending Chase devised. Meanwhile, the rest of America says "WTF."
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what a fucking suprise
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Great ending... Think about it, the tension in the whole episode, building to a head in the last 5 mins. This is how Tony Soprano lives his live EVERY day. On the edge never knowing when he can get killed, arrested etc. That was Chase's point...
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AJ is banging a high school chick, blows up his SUV, wants to join the army but gets convinced by Tony to get a job working on a movie with the promise of investing in a club for him down the line
Tony makes peace with Phil's googely eyed captain, who agrees to pay restitution to Janice for killing Bobby, and basically gives his blessing to take out Phil. They locate Phil with the help of a tip from Agent Harris, Phil takes 2 bullets and then his head gets smooshed by an SUV.
They bring a cat back from the safehouse, which stares at Chrissys picture in the back office, making Paulie go apeshit. (which just cracked me up to no end) Paulie is offered a big money promotion by Tony and he reluctantly accepts.
One of Tony's associates (can't remember who it was, minor character) flips when his sun is busted for selling extacy, Tony's lawyer tells him that he's 95% sure that Tony will be indicted on RICO charges.
Tony goes to see Uncle Junior, who's mind has basically turned to jelly.
The last 5 minutes consist of Tony and the family going out to dinner, Tony plays a Journey song and they build the tension for about 5 minutes, as they pan to everybody in the restaurant giving Tony the stink eye, and they suddenly fade to black with the family eating dinner, and they fade to black.
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I don't think anyone's mentioned the plane that went overhead as Meadow started to go across the street. Another possibility is that the terrorists (FBI guy said they had a lead) were going to blow it up. Just sayin'. I loved the ending. Any concrete ending, no matter what it was, would have been just as much as a disappointment.
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If she could learn to park she'd save us all five minutes of our lives back.
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They did ROYALLY FUCK UP THE FADE TO BLACK. AS OTHERS HAVE STATED, I THOUGHT MY CABLE WENT OUT.
Peter Jackson did it well in LOTR:RotK. A little transition to avoid confusion would have been nice for the most acclaimed show in TV history. DUMBASSES. -
Laughing my ass of at that one. - thanks.
Frustrated about the lack of closure, for this episode. Almost felt like a run of the mill ending cliffhanger for another season, and not the ending of a series- or an "era". Damn, you think we could have gotten just a little more?
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we just disagree, that's all. Although it IS easy just to call someone a poser who doesnt agree with you.
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hmm he looks at everyone coming threw door thinking is it my loved one, or guy gun going blow my brains out, or feds going bust me in a public place in front my family, guy in gray shirt looked like a fed the guy went in bathromm looked like hired hitman the blacks looked like hired gang whack, him or maybe it was family last super before going to sing sing, i was mad at first because i hate shit like this but after u think about it and read all these posts ur realize there will never be show like this ever gain, u either loved it or hated it and u either loved it or hated that ending... well got call my direct tv guy and cancel HBO that is one shity network now lol.
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The Title says everything
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"oh, and john from cincinatti sux balls and this is only the first 5 minutes"
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The ending to ROTK was the f ing worst ever and so were the next 10. Cmon Boober you're better than that.
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LOL..I love it All you haters will just bitch and moan. While david chase counts his cash. It's been the same way for the last seven years. What did you except a "SCARFACE" shoot out over Onion rings!! "I said EXTRA CATSUP!!!" tony belts while shooting up the entire dinner.
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I watched it again.. it's definately gotta be Robert Patrick.. they hide his face on purpose.. but you can tell..
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Right when he looked up, the guy in teh bathroom killed him. Bobby to Tony in the boat: "You probably don't even hear it when it happens."
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It was a "cut" to black. Big...fucking...difference. A fade to black probably wouldnt have so many of you bitching.
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Alot of you guys seem to all have missed the fact that the show was jam packed with closure. We pretty much got closure for the Tony Vs. Junior (Tony finally saw his uncle was just a shell now, and it almost brought him to tears...contrast the Janice visit vs. Tony's), NJ Vs. NY (Phil's dead, all is well), AJ Vs. Everyone (Now he seems to have his shit together), Meadow Vs. Parent's Expectations (Lawyer, which lets her help her family!), Paulie Vs. Himself (Notice the last shot of Paulie...the cat lies down near him and he doesn't care...he has let go of his issues and learned to just accept how life comes), Paulie Vs. Tony (Tony realizes that Paulie is loyal and is worth keeping around). Also look at the end...that's the first time that their family has all been at dinner with NO drama during almost the entire series run. That enough was closure for them.
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Or so they'll keep telling us. Meanwhile, for those of us who don't need to feel smarter than the rest of the world, Chase fucked us with that bullshit non-ending. He probably couldn't make up his mind so he did nothing.
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Paris Hilton Is Reportedly Scared Of The Potty.
Love me that cbs.com -
You're supposed to be confused. That's the point.
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that was him!!! "Extra catsup!" that's hilarious..
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Spoon fed would be Chase telling us what every symbol or action represented on the show. If I wanted to choose my own adventure, I would have dug out one of those old Indiana Jones books from fifteen years ago.
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but I'll download the fucker cuz Chase and company don't deserve my
$$ after that bullshit ending. -
thats all really...
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"you just aren't intelligent enough to get what Chase is trying to do." "Chase doesn't believe in wrapping things up in little neat bows." Did you see how much of a cop out he took with the annoying AJ storyline that took up far too much of the second half of this season. After a half dozen episodes of being depressed, he became all bright and cheery by just getting a glorified production assistant job and a BMW M3. How's that for cheaping out.
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"Dallas" ended with Joel Grey playing a devil-like character and telling J.R. to kill himself "Do it!" he screams, but we never actually see J.R. shoot himself. It cuts to black and I don't recall if we were heard the shot or not. It was open-ended. The Bobby dream sequence was a season opener after a weird cliffhanger where the deceased Patrick Duffy appeared in the shower because the actor decided to return to the show. The previous season was written off as a complete dream.
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I thought that was Robert Patrick, too.
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Why would Robert Patrick be there? I know he was on the Sopranos.. but I didn't really watch the episodes with him in it.. what happened?
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It made sense to me....there was enough resolution and closure and yet it ends with the uncompleted scene...
Any other "resolution" would've pissed people off even more...now, instead of "woulda, coulda, shoulda", he's left it to the audience to fill in the blanks their own way. I thought it was great...frustrating, but great... -
on Robert Patrick's character on there. I remember he owned a sporting goods store or something, but nothing else. or shit, was that another show?
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Is it a well-orchestrated hit on the entire family or is it Tony's Paranoia interfering with what he could have if he could ever get out of the crime scene: an honest family moment.
But hey, guess what! The cut the balls off the end of the episode with that "hack to black" manuever. At least a tenth of a second would have been nice to understand what Chase was trying to convey with the medium.
Instead, I was cussing out my Cable Box in confusion and getting robbed of an 8-year climax.
DUMBASSES. -
That was a very "European Cinema" ending. Think about it. We lived 5 hellish minutes as Tony. He will be in fear his entire life and always "left hanging." Even innocuous things will scare him, like people simply walking behind his daughter. He believes that everyone is a suspect, everyone is after what he cares most about. He is a paranoid sociopath.
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We experienced the tension and uncertainty Tony must face every day.Brilliant.
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We all know how much Chase & co. are obsessed with The Godfather; the shifty guy going into the bathroom to (probably) come out blazing like Pacino in GF1 was a brilliant stroke. I'm sorry a few people here seem to hate ambiguity, but if that guy does come out firing, the massacre we imagine in our heads is far more violent than anything they could have filmed. C'mon, some slow-motion John Woo-pigeon BS would have been stupid. And the beauty of it is, even if that dude is really just going to take a piss, nothing good really lies ahead for this family, what with Tony's guy pulling a Sammy Gravano and going to the feds to spill his guts. Most others here have complimented how much pure dread emanates from every second of that last scene; I would agree. Awesome ending, and true to the show's character.
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That the last Harry Potter book is going to end with Ron trying to parallell park that blue flying car while Harry and Hermoine are eating those booger jelly beans and the last 15 pages of the book are just gonna be blank so we can write our own ending? Double points for Voldemort's head being crushed by an SUV!
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phil got killed? it's a cover of "you keep me hanging on." sounded sweet. gotta download it. anybody?
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was Matthew Fox, I swear it was. :--)
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Without having ever made claims of the intelligence level needed...AJ was the typical american 20 year old. He didn't get what he wanted and was depressed. He got some new pussy and a car and it fixed everything. Come to think of it, some pussy and a car would put me just right.
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why is it that if I don't think it was brilliant that I am of lesser intelligence. My Master's degree on my wall speaks otherwise. Just because people don't like the ending doesn't mean they need to have things spoon fed, it means they just didn't like the episode. Personally, I usually think people who think they are morally or mentally superior to someone based on a friggin television show are have inadequency issues.
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He's just a spoiled rich kid who lives wherever the moment takes him. And he has no idea what any of it means. It just serves his current mood and either motivates or overwhelms him. That was the point. After all his talk...it was summed up with him describing to his psych that it was cool that his car blew up. And then he's driving an Beamer. He's just a coddled, directionless mess. It was perfect how he flipped at the end. And his last comment was a complaint about fetching coffee. The cycle continues. He wants all the perks without any of the responsibilities.
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There was no signifigance to the black out ending. It just opens the door for a movie. Nothing is ever resolved on this damn show !!!!
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It has never been more apparent the contempt that David Chase has for America and the people who live in it, including the fans who are responsible for his financial status. I always hated interpretive literature because most of it reflects a cowardice in the writer. He or she is afraid to commit to a plot path and risk absolute alienation by a percentage of the fans. But open-ended endings absolutely alienate everyone because it does not resolve the premises that were introduced. I did not ask David Chase to invent those premises, but when he did so and fans watch based on those premises, he had a duty to satisfactorily resolve those premises. Yeah, you're gonna get people saying what a brilliant way to go out. But that's just people who relate to Chase's sadomasochistic personality, who thrive on the discomfort of others. Those who don't enjoy what is going on onscreen, but enjoy Chase's contemptuous manipulation of his audience and how he continually fucks them. Those who are in on the joke, so to speak, love to watch the American people get fucked on a weekly basis. It doesn't, however, make for great drama, or lend itself to a classic story. Who got whacked on this episode? The fans, and anyone who loved it loves to see a potentially brilliant series masquerading as torture of the lowly, unintelligent fuckers of the world. Sorry Chase's pompous ass ruined this story for you. That's why Gandolfini can't wait to get the fuck out of dodge. He's tired of seeing his fans getting strung along.
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I think you're right on; you articulated it far better than me.
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First time a television show made me feel shaky with tension long after the credits rolled. Freakin' brilliant if you ask me.
Immersive writing, direction, and editing...except for the fact that right now I would kill for a plate of those onion rings... -
I was with everyone who said open-ended blah blah. Friend's theory was that Tony died. He said that Bobby in the first episode said "You never see it comig, probably don't hear a thing." That kinda fits.
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It's not just a hit on Tony but the entire family. Someone followed each member of the family and it was only when meadow entered the restaurant that the screen went silent. In my own opinion the entire family is dead. There is no way anyone could have survived that when the hit men had the place covered and Tony was unarmed with no protection. The ending made complete sense and it closed all story arcs.
Does anyone have an idea who within the NY crew ordered the hit? -
and in my imagination a polar bear came out of the bathroom and ate Tony and he said it tasted like Fucking zitti....
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Now that's damn good television. They're just snakes with fur !!!
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...there would be universal declarations that tonight's episode was the worst ending in television history. However, the show's track record has people convinced of David Chase's brilliance, and viewers are willing to tell themselves that whatever they just saw was a beautiful piece of art that we were all fortunate enough to have witnessed just so they can feel like they are in on the joke.
They could have stuck a picture of a jar of mayonnaise on the screen for the last 5 minutes, and people would still be clamoring that the mayonnaise was the perfect expression of the human condition and a fitting end to a series like The Sopranos. -
The whole episode showed that the status quo will be maintained. Paulie's still getting pushed around, Tony's under a threat from getting dragged in on gun charges, AJ's still a fuck up, Meadow, is a bad driver (but still sexually active), there's still "dirty" cops.
For people who want resolutions, we got some. NY backed off and let Phil get whacked. The episode with AJ's therapist shows that Tony really was feeding off therapy.
The last scene shows us a very unique view of how Tony lives day to day. Everyone is a threat, and he has to live with it every day. -
I didn't need to go through six weeks of the storyline for this to wrapped up in a neat little bow at the end or even dominate the final episode. That is what pissed me off most about this episode is that they focused 60-70% on AJ which had to be the worst and most annoying storyline in the who series, not just this season. And then they copped out in the end.
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What the fuck was that? Yes, the tension was palpable, yes Tony forever lives in his own prison, I get all that. Great. But that's it? Life goes on? What a huge pile of cop-out bullshit!! Its a story. Stories have endings. Fill in the blanks, choose your own adventure, you decide what happens next is a horrible insult to end such a wonderful series. If Damon and Carlton pull this kinda shit with Lost I'm climbing a water tower with a high-powered rifle.
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Francis Ford Coppola is nodding his head right now saying yeas, yes, YES! Jumping Windows!!! Then he looks over at the poster in his office of Godfather Part III and just starts crying while he buries his face in a massive ham sandwich. Sometimes, sticking to what got you there in the first place rather than copping out adds courage to your convictions. Way to go, Mr. Chase!
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I spent the last 10 min saying out loud - who the hell is that, who's that... oh no, he's walking right to them!!1
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"why is it that if I don't think it was brilliant that I am of lesser intelligence. My Master's degree on my wall speaks otherwise"
I haven't seen any saying that you're dumb if you don't like it. Look behind your diploma for some self confidence man! As far as that goes, does a master's degree trump 7000 friends on myspace? I'm not clear. -
that had a much better ending, and Maria Bello's cootchie. SPOILER: the drapes don't match the curtain
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In many ways it was appropriate to the way the show has been the last few years. I don't mind at all playing against what we've been trained to expect. At the same time, it was a perfectly awkward place to stop. Maybe it would have been more satisfying has HBO not been hypiing it as "It's All Been Leading Up to This! The FINAL SOPRANOS! EVER!" Certainly we were led to believe it would be a big episode, and it wasn't. Again I can respect just ending it like it was just another episode, but not when its sold as something else.
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I was REALLY pissed with that ending, just because they built up the tension and then just cut it off. I'm not sure I'll ever like that ending, but I am glad Phil Retardo died and that Paulie and Tony survived.
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I'd rather watch Godfather III than any episode of the Sopranos after this finale.
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I wasn't crazy about the ending, but it does fit well with the rest of the series and leaving so many things unresolved. But damned if it didn't have me on the edge of my seat. The song seemed to keep getting louder and tension kept building as Tony was suspicious of everyone in the place. The way Meadow kept having trouble parking, I almost believed that she would get out of her car to see her entire family gunned down right in front of her--or at least her dad. I didn't even think about it until some people here said it, but you could see the abrupt cut to black as Tony being killed without him seeing it coming, but I saw it as more of a "life goes on" ending. Not all the bad guys get what's coming to them.
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What a waste....Eighty six episodes of copycat drama. The Sopranos zeitgeist purports to be a glimpse into the psyche and home life of a New Jersey mobster and his family but I never really "got" it. I decided to watch the entire first year hoping it would take a new direction and tell us something that "Goodfellas", "Danny Brasco", "The Godfather", "Carlito's Way", "A Bronx Tale", and "Casino" didn't, but instead it constantly repeated time after time the same cliches, the same scenarios, and I found myself underwhelmed and never tuned in again. I found Gandofini's interpretation of mob boss Tony Soprano to be heavy handed and over acted. Wrong guy for the part. The rest of the cast were fine actors, as is Gandofini in a plethora of other roles, but the writing was tedious and repetitive and I got the feeling that I had sat through this before. After watching the first year I found nothing with which I could relate or even bring myself to care about so I stopped and I am glad I did. Thank goodness it's over and we can move on to something better..which won't be hard.
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I had to watch the beginning (just the recap & credits) in another room while I rebooted it.I thought it fucked up again at the end!
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December 2008
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"You Keep Me Hanging On" by Vanilla Fudge. Late 60's psychedelic remake of the Diana Ross and the Supremes hit.
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I like the idea that it's a hit on the family, and blackout is it...
But if that's the case, who sanctioned the move? Phil is dead, and his people know it: "do what you gotta do."
So who sanctioned the kill (if that's what the blackout was)?
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end with McNulty and Bunk knocking on a door they think is Marlo's to arrest him. And after thinking about it, at this point, I'm moving The Wire past the Soprano's on my all time faves, on the lameness of the final episode alone. The Wire's stories are tight, compelling, focused, well written, with dialogue that surpasses even Chase's bullshit. The characters are just as complex and interesting, and are much less one dimensional as some of the ones in Chase's fucking fanatasy world. The Wire. The greatest show on HBO.
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Apparently you didn't read the self righteous rage of some of the asses on this board who claim America needs to be spoon fed. I didn't love the ending, but I don't need to spoon fed. I hate the Chase disciples on this board thinking that if you didn't love the episode that you are intellictually inferior. I didn't use that Master's degree reference to talk about how smart I am. I used to to show that educated people who don't need to be spoon fed don't have to neccessarily like the ending.
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The people supporting the final scene and saying how great it was, you are the same people who went to film school and made some overly pretenious piece of crap that you claim was supposed to represent mans duality of fear of death and fear of living, but really it represented your own inner struggle of your fear of REALLY living.
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When it flashed to black, I freaked and started flipping around the channels, thinking the cable had just gone out at the worst possible spot imagineable.
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I'm with you on the AJ storyline I just took something different from the wrapup than you did. I liked that by copping out on the story he makes a snarky little comment on the propensity of the average teen boy to cop out on everything, even something as serious as wanting to kill yourself. I just wanted to be clear, I don't give a shit about what people think of David Chase (not an apologist) and I'm not saying anyone is of less intelligence bacause we see different things.
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He called it in the TB last week...only what he thought was his copy not containing the last minute of the episode was actually the end. Here's what he had to say:
Well some of them. I saw a promotional copy of the last episode and while it did not include the last minute I saw enough so here we go. No joke. - AJ's car catches on fire while he is hooking up with his new girl. Very symbolic if you remember how they got that car. - Tony gets AJ a job in the entertainment industry because AJ was going to join the army to fight terrorism. - Tony goes to Junior and Junior has no idea who Tony is.This is after Janice goes to him to try and get after his money. - Phil Leotardo gets hit. He is killed by Benny at a gas station and then gets his head run over by the car he was in. - They find Phil because the FBI agent that Tony has been helping tells him where Phil is. - While Phil is away Tony has a sit down with New York and they agree to lay off and also say they would not mind if Phil is gone. The last scene they are sitting in a diner with Dont Stop Believing by Journey playing. REALLY REALLY intense and right when the conclusion is about to play out my copy ended. Come back Sunday night and call me a liar but no one will need to.... -
he kills the family..
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that wasn't expected.Probably even by the cast who reportedly shot multiple endings.Apparently they didn't use ANY of them. Brilliant!
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So much better than this crap
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how true. life really is like that. boring. AJ is just like a bunch of dimwit guys i know with dull things to say about iraq, and who wouldn't spend $15 a month to listen to them?
most people expected the series to end with something cool and interesting. but that would have left us wanting more. better this way -- glad we don't have to spend time with a show whose creative force has withered.
if this was the first episode, no one would have watched the second. genius. they shouldn't have rolled credits until the family silently finished eating the onion rings. -
It could be just a ploy to get us to all buy the DVD so we can watch the alternate endings that were shot so we'll ALL be happy.
...fucking onion rings...I can almost taste them. -
If this was anything other than David Chase and the Sorpranos, people would all being agreeing the piece of shit that this ending is - finishing it in mid-flow is prententious bullshit
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FOr people who don't care about true writing skills, or how to write a complete novel...this is the type of ending that makes you think for about 5 min...then over,,,,what a idiot way to end a series that got such high praise
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I guess I am more upset that it took Chase the nearly the entire half of this season to make the point you laid out. I can see your point and it does make sense, but did we need so much screen time to make this point? AJ probably had as much screen time since they returned for the last half of the season as Tony. I know Chase wants to go beyond the who mobster show, but I always saw AJ as a minor character and an annoying one at that. Now the last leg was as much about him as Tony especially the last episode.
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I know there was plenty of symbolism...but the message was pretty clear. Life goes on. When someone was killed on this show, especially the main character....it would be spelled out for you.
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They'll try and make a movie, and if they can get the details worked out (schedules, $$, a script - hopefully not written by chase, etc.) it'll be obvious that the ending was "life as usual, tony paranoid all the time." If the movie DOESN'T get made, they can say the cut to black was Tony getting clipped. As I've stated, a cheapass copout. Fuck Chase. The Wire will fuck The Soprano's 100 ways to sunday.
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He was working for the government. Or, it was a metaphor involving the greasy onion rings and heart disease.
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So count me among the dummies who just don't get true writing skills.
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That is compelling TV
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It had my heart beating so hard and then suddenly I thought my cable went out. I even reached for the remote before the credits started and I realized it was over. Brilliant. The ultimate reminder THAT IT WAS A TV SHOW. Yes, like life it is open-ended but TV shows have to end sometime. EE-YOW!!
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"In the end, it's all a big nothing."....
'Nother thought: this is the show that should be called "This American Life"....
Tony Soprano is the new Ralph Kramden....
Still thinking... will repost when all these thoughts come together...
Oh yeah, it was an excellent ending by the way... -
The Truck Driver in Diner was played by Patrick Joseph Connolly.
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but, i'm pretty sure it wasn't the vanilla fudge version. sounded more modern, less psychedelic. but i only heard it once, so i could be wrong. sounded more metal.
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I think Tony is definitely dead. I don't think there was a hit on the entire family because as it was said before , they don't take it out on the family, just the person.
So they wanted to kill Tony the same way he killed Phil... in front of his family. It was about retribution. It went to black because we were seeing the last scene through tony's eyes. Obviously the hit man came out the bathroom and shot tony just as he saw meadow enter the restaurant. thats why the screen went dead silent to illustrate the impact.
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Who here has attacked your intelligence? I get tired of the name calling and shit-talking on this site, so I seldom post.... but I think all that stress of getting your Master's degree has cracked you and made you paranoid. I'm sure once you have your doctorate hanging up on the wall it'll pass. Maybe you should impress us all by telling us how much you make or what kind of car you drive. See, that was a personal attack. Although very passive-aggressive in nature.
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RECOGNIZE! Btw, BRING ON THE WIRE!
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when the picture went up and down for ten seconds. It's been done before David Chase, you're not doing anything ground breaking. Andy Kaufman did it to fuck with the viewer, what's your excuse ?
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I didn't love it either. I agree with you on the spoonfeeding, there could certainly be some middle ground. I have no idea how I WANTED to end though so I can't bitch either way.
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The guy at the counter definitely seemed to be waiting for Meadow to come in.
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It IS ROBERT PATRICK!!! Why would they go to such great lengths to hide his face??? Not to mention.. Patrick Joseph Connolly is an AKA for Robert Patrick.. I'm guessing..
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until they post it on the hbo episode guide/music page.
http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/music/episode85.shtml -
Alright hears the gods honest truth... I'm a huge fan of this show. I respect David Chase and most of HBO's shows. Tonight's finale was a total disappointment.
I like all of you thought my dvr fucked up...that my cable blew out...that my wife's dvr recording of the Tony's interfered with the ending of the Sopranos. NO. None of that. This was David Chase, the Producers and network executives giving in to their call for additional $$$ later on. MOVIE. Please this was terrible.
Okay so now that Ive established that Im really upset about the ending...what's really pissing me off now is reading some of these posts about how some of you liked the finale! I understand what has been happening over the course of the show, the seasons..but you know what, as a finale, the story didnt work.
Can we just all agree already that almost every season has been a build up of open endings. And here we are in the end of the show, the finale, and yet more open endings. Where is the entertainment?
If it wasnt for Chase's ability to make the viewer get roped-in to his characters, I dont know if I would have watched these last couple of years.
As story lines go, this finale was not final for me. Better luck next time Chase. -
That'll teach those cork-sucking futher-mucking bastages.
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No one has at this point recognized that wow- this guy actually DID see the episode. Probably. A few holes, like telling us Patsy was the rat and not Carlo and that it was Benny who shot Phil (it was actually the guy I call Alternate Universe Benny).
Anyhow, the episode- I was furious for about 30 minutes but now that it has sunk in , wow. Brilliant. -
I'm telling you, it's good shit !!
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If there had been children playing in that pile of leaves...you could have run them over! Carm is such a jackass! I love the throwaway lines in this show! The best exchange of all time was when Tony was in the hospital...
Pasteur: "Scientists would have you believe that dinosaurs existed before humans. God created the world 6000 years ago and humans and dinsaurs lived together."
Tony Soprano: "Like in the Flintstones?"
Tony Soprano: "Yeah, but what about that carbon dating stuff and all"
Pasteur: "Tony, these people have an agenda."
Tony listens, nods his head, the preacher leaves. Then Tony's ever cynic nephew Christopher opens his mouth and utters these words I kid you not:
Christopher: "What's he sayin', there were dinosaurs back with Adam n' Eve?"
Tony Soprano: "I guess."
Christopher: "No way. T-Rex in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve would be runnin' all the time scared shitless, but the book says its supposed to be paradise..."
That's what made the show great.
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While I still believe most people complaining are spoon fed babies, you're allowed to have your own opinion. However, I would say to the haters to watch the episode again. I really think if you didn't like this finale, you were just expecting too much (a Hollywood bulls**t ending if I'm gonna be honest). Now that you know what's what, you can sit back and relax and watch it for what it was. A good piece of film making that did actually tie up a bunch of loose ends, had lots of forshadowing, and had the viewing thinking the whole time. P.S. that IS ROBERT PATRICK!!!!!! Good lookin out. Although I'm really not sure why he would be there other than Chase trying to throw us off again.
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Aparently, you must be part of the idiot america they were talking about. Since you are too dumb or too lazy to find them. I will repost a few word for word:
"this thread is proof positive that america
by bacci40 Jun 10th, 2007
09:31:35 PM
IS FILLED WITH FUCKING RETARDS THAT NEED TO BE SPOON FED EVERYTHING...WELL GUESS WHAT RETARDS, CHASE SAID FUCK YOU TO YOU ALL...OR DIDNT YOU CATCH THE FORSHADOWING DURING THE EPISODE...SINCE YOU DIDNT...FUCK YOU ALL OVER AGAIN...NOW YOU CAN ALL GO WATCH FF2...THAT WILL HAVE A NICE ENDING...and in any case...any specific type of ending would have a section of the audience being pissed about something...and no, he couldnt end it like the godfather...hey ive got an idea...why dont you fucks send nuts to chase...or mars bars...or some other inane thing because your pathetic lives need a pat ending....thank god for chase...oh, and john from cincinatti sux balls and this is only the first 5 minutes" and "People need to grow up and stop being spoon fed!!!
by ZoeFan Jun 10th, 2007
09:33:26 PM
The Title says everything"
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It Go's ON AND ON AND ON AND ON!!!!
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that whiny Five for Fighting Song.. "Be careful what you wish for." Even though that line speaks volumes right now... John from Cincinnati Sux.. I bet Luke Perry would kill to do a spinoff Buffy series based on his character Pike.. sweeps guest star, Paul Reubens!!! There are no more great shows anymore.. no Lost until 2008.. No Jericho until 2008.. Heroes failed to deliver... Harry Potter will be ending in July... the world is a sucky place right now.. next thing you're gonna tell me is that Galactus is a cloud, Optimus Prime has lips and flames, and they're making another Die Hard..
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You were like the homicidal, unstable uncle I wish I had.
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You watched it. Deal with it. So, to say, "can we all agree" will never happen. Which makes the title all the more appropriate. "Made in America". The discussion goes on. That's what makes it great.
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It would have been an o.k ending if there was not going to be a movie. Unfortunately, we all know there's gonna be one and thats why Chase decided to end it like this. Too much money to be made from movie. Thus they could never have allowed closure on tonights episode. Made In America is right. Money talks in America and Chase wants another big paycheck.
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I forgot to spell check. I was trying to say that the episode felt like your fovourite sports team,losing the championship game. Big disappointment.
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are cancelling HBO right now after seeing Sopranos end and that piece of shit Dude from Cincy show waste an hour of their lives? I'm out until the Wire is back...
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Why the fuck am I considering arguing with a bunch of thirteen year olds about that episode? It was great.
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Is abso-fucking-loutly nothing except David Chase playing on the fact that Micheal Corleone had the gun in the bathroom. Really, want Soprano fan doesn't know that.
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2007 has sucked..
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No...there wasn't anyone with a gun. He just looked suspicious when he headed toward the bathroom and fit the profile of a mafia style hitman the best, if you will.
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This is utter bullshit. People talk about the closure of the family - what do you mean? AJ goes from hooking up w/ 16 year old, to wanting to join the army and 4 minutes later he's happy being a movie coordinators bitch?
Meadow's getting married - her storyline has sucked for months.
Carm's house and Tony's gambling? Thanks for fixing that one.
The Shrink - Kicks Tony out and that's it. After hearing Tony's whining for years, I get that crap?
Syl - I love that the magic bullet infomercial was playing at the beginning of that scene.
The Cat - Was it Chris/Big Pussy/ or Adriana?
What a shitty ending - a little bit of closure please.
Didn't Bobby ask Tony if you heard it when you're killed?
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And it was a fuck you ending cause it was done in such a way that I had to come one here to make sure it wasn't my POS satellite cutting out. But the rest was ok. Ok, I guess that means it wasn't great. Just kind of seems like the setup for a movie. And I'm ok with that I guess. But without out so many of our favorite characters? Or will he wait 6 years and show AJ as a made guy? Who knows?
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Listed on IMDB.
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You quoted my earlier post when bitching about an attack on your IQ, which I didn't do. In any way, shape, or form. What did you expect? You stupid little twat. There, happy?
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if it ain't there, it ain't there. if you keep trying to explain to yourself why that was a good ending, you're exactly the fool Chase hoped you would be. you don't want to be like one of those fools who spent 3 years defending The Phantom Menace before finally being forced to admit it was unwatchable.
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This show has meandering about for 3 seasons with half baked plots that start and have no resolution thats why the audience dwindled. I half expected this episode to be about Tony painting Carmelas spec house or taking a dump.
As for those of you that are speculating what happened next, Well they sat in the diner, Meadow was running in and they cut to black. The actors(YES THERE ACTORS) got up went home and cashed their checks.
There was no hit in the show or ongoing plot brewing down in Brooklyn. Its a tv show. -
you are fucking dumb
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Well played good sir (or mad'am).
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viewings, the ending will make sense, thus making it more palatable to the die-hard fans pre-conceived expectations...Remember, time heals all wounds. It took me a while to get over Angels' demise.
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"This is why America hates Hollywood. The line to cancel HBO starts here. What a ridiculously disappointing end lacking in creativity to The Sopranos saga. Even if David Chase, who wrote and directed the final episode, was demonstrating the existential and endless loop of Tony's life, it still robbed the audience of closure. And if it were done to segue into a motion picture sequel, then that kind of crass comercialism shouldn't be tolerated. (See my Does Chase Have 'Sopranos' Movie Idea?) Either way, it was terrible. Apparently, my extreme reaction was typical of the series' fans: they crashed HBO's website tonight trying to register their outrage. Chase clearly didn't give a damn about his fans. Instead, he crapped in their faces. C'mon, every year this series' creator had to be dragged kicking and screaming back to the computer to write more episodes against his will even though The Sopranos has made him fantastically rich. Especially now that it's in syndication. (See my A&E's Profanity-Free Tony Soprano A Hit) Chase needed to exert himself to a concoct an artful denouement. But he took the easy way out. Whether or not Tony got iced didn't matter. The show we all loved deserved a decent burial. Instead, it went into a black hole. Already, some of the more arrogant TV critics like The New York Times' Alessandra Stanley are online claiming that Chase fulfilled expectations by defying expectations. Phooey. Call up your cable companies and complain with your wallets."
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Please...tell me! All of the character arcs on this show last at least two to three episodes. Each ep is an uninterrupted hour...like a movie. So, what's the point? You could see doing a sex in the City movie since the show's 25 minutes an ep. But all has been said here. There'll never be a movie. Unless...of course...Sil gets injected with Toxic waste in the hospital and returns to exact his delusional revenge on what's left of the crew...only to be thwarted by Paulie Walnuts and his sidekick cat Goldie long enough for Carmella to beat him with her spec shore house blueprints while Tony strangles him with his own toupe while eating really greasy, 'shroom laced onion rings!
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I think that TV is specifically made for morons.. it's not an art.. it's a way to make money.. just like the radio.. what you see is what you get.. no interpretation.. I thought at the beginning with all the snow that the end would be that they're all in this Snow Globe of some down syndrome kid.. at least Uncle Jr. can go back to dancing for Six Flags..
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NEVER BEFORE DID THE SOPRANOS HAVE A PET, THEN COMES THIS CAT TO TEASE PAULIE BECAUSE CATS ARE THE LEAST LOYAL PETS ON THE PLANET. I ALWAYS WONDERED WHY THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PET, AND NOW I KNOW. As for the ending, it was fantastic. It goes along with the whole life-is-suffering point of the show and you can live with all the characters-the ones you love and the ones you wished caught a bullet-for eternity. THE JOURNEY SONG, SERIOUSLY THE SADDEST FUCKING WHITE TRASH SONG ON THE PLANET - IT WAS PERFECT. Whether someone caught a bullet after that is up for grabs. I'll watch it again on OnDemand. But hey, Paulie Walnuts, still loyal. Probably the saddest part of it all. Gets shortshifted after all that bullshit. The Mob. So it fuckin' goes. Long live the cat (holy shit, a cat almost up-ended the entire series). Uncle Jr. = long live MARS. Nice. Let it resonate. Don't hate. SADDDDDDD is the word of tomorrow, that's for sure. Even though, nobody dies, sad as fuck. Every day is Gotti to these people and their offspring finally gets it.
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HBO website is up and running.
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Sir, and thank you.
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...and maybe some of the rest.
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A Night Of Boxing Off Broadway
Patrick Joseph Connolly returns to the stage fresh off his feature film debut in "The Gardener of Eden," which premiered at the TriBeca Film Festival. Connolly will also appear in the final episode of the HBO hit, "The Sopranos." He also has appeared a theater production of, "A Letter From Ethel Kennedy."
It was just five minutes of being Tony at the end. I am satisfied. I can now cancel HBO in peace. I agree with an earlier post that if the final episode was followed by "Adventures of Paulie and the Cat" I'd have watched and kept HBO. I don't care about John from . . . -
Jun 10, 2007 10:26:00 PM CDT
How does David Chase keep 10 million retards in suspens
by napoleondynamite
************************************cut to black
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it's a ruse, I tells ya!!
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I think the series had at least a dozen too many episodes, like they flashed enough cash to make Chase stretch the series out. Still loved the ending though, but understand why others don't.
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because she was a pussy for leaving the Sopranos to do that "Joey" show..
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David Chase is the M. Night Shamalyian of HBO.
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I DON'T GIVE A FUCK how you intend to set up a major motion picture.THIS IS NO WAY to end a series like this.I DON'T GIVE A FUCK how you intend to set up a major motion picture.Do you GET ME?!
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Now who's paranoid? I never quoted anyone specifically. I just used the typical lines that elitist Chase fans use every week to look down on people who didn't like that week's episode as if they aren't smart enough to get Chase's writing like it is some profound novel for the ages. If you felt I was talking about, I'm sorry. I don't even remember your post. The two big themes for Chase elitists every week is that America needs to be spoon fed and need things tied up in a little bow. Aparently, they are so profound, but yet they can't come up with new and interesting ways to look down on everyone from episode to episode or for that matter series to series since it is the same insults they throw around on the Studio 60 TBs.
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Jun 10, 2007 10:30:06 PM CDT
was picturing a shootout between Tony & Phil n the snow
by orionsangels
how dramatic and exciting would that have been? this diner shit, whoa! even the characters in the Sopranos would disgusted by this ending. i mean i'm insulted.
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Does anybody have any idea what's going on with Preacher? I love the books and if they do with it what they did with Carnivale or Deadwood, it will be a mass of profane magnificence.
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and still have idiots think you are a genius
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That episode was comedy with how bad it was. Now you have people writing fanfiction in their heads to make up what happened when the sceen went black. Here's what happened they kept on eating onion rings.
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I had friends over to watch the finale. Needless to say noone was impressed, in fact there was anger. I am pretty pissed actually. Talk about anti-climactic, at this point I hope there is no movie because all it will be is pointless drivel and metaphors that lead absolutly nowhere. How do they get away with this? Does HBO believe its position as the #1 premium network is so secure they can belittle and treat their subscribers like shit? No payoff on anything (Except for maybe Junior)! Fuck this. Shotime so has HBO by the balls with 'Dexter' it isnt even funny. The 5th and 6th seasons have been a complete waste of time, and David Chase dares to tell people he had this ending in mind the entire time? Please don't belittle us anymore. What a crock of shit this ending was. I don't even know what to say. Why am I even talking about this show anymore?!?!
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Fair enough... I promise to double my meds in the morning.
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If you said or thought this...you didn't get the ending and probably don't get a lot of things. I can't believe people are admitting to this. Look, if you didn't like it you didn't like it. But if you thought your cable blacked out, you probably didn't get the whole series anyway and just watched it for the "whacks". So, in conclusion.................................................................................................................................................................................................WRITTEN & DIRECTED
BY
DAVID CHASE
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he gets it!!!! Wakes up spooning Kevin Dillon.. Enterage/Sopranos crossover!!! check it out they're making a movie about Pablo Escobar.... AJ was gonna help out on a movie... huh?? Huh?? It can't all be coincidental..
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That was a low blow. At leastr Chase has some creativity left. Shamalyian just tries to come up with a "shocker" twist (how can it be a shocker when everyone who comes to his movies are waiting for it) and then builds a movie around it. He stopped being a screenwriter somewhere after Unbreakable and became a movie marketing machine.
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Now that show is getting pretty cool. That season finale was worth watching at least. The Sopranos finale? hahaha....fade to black...HEHEhehehaha.
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I guess most of you need your entertainment spoon fed to you. You would have been better off watching Deal or No Deal.
Government education at work! -
Sad, but the damn cat was the most interesting thing on the screen tonight other than Junior.
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CUT, I say! SON...OF...A...BITCH!
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Someone needs to turn off the talk radio assholes. AJ says something about enjoying the good times and Tony is content - I don't think he's worried at all about a hit, it's OUR anxiety Chase is playing on. In my mind there's no doubt they all got hit. And yeah, it's better in my imagination than it would have been had they shown it. The whole scene is showing us the family is still together and they're gettin' whacked together. To me it also happens to be the fate they all deserve. (The kids are idiots just like the wife, they're all guilty)
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How many seasons have ended with the family getting together and having dinner?
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Tony did Peyote in the desert... Kevin Dillon was in The Doors where they did peyote in the desert... coincidence??
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Chase ended the thing on his own terms. If there's a movie, great. If not, great. But he made the show and ended it how he wanted to end it. If it didn't work for you, then YOU can come up with YOUR own show and end it in whichever manner YOU see fit. And I love that people hated it. I bathe in your tears, whiners.
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Im with you. Although, I DO hope there is NOT a movie. I love the ambiguity here.
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I havnt really criticized the show until now. I kept telling everyone "Wait until the final nine" "Wait until the final 4" "Well, wait until the final episode". So many plot points raised. So few even explored. This was not a finale for viewers with taste. This was a finale that rubbed shit in peoples faces. In like a Lion, out like a retarded lamb. Thats all I have to say about this series now.
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controversy. endless debates over whether he's a cinematic genius or just some no talent hack. little over an hour, and must be 200+ posts. seems like he got what he was after.
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I went to a comic signing of Garth Ennis for "the Boys"(you like preacher read that) i asked whats up with Preacher--He said HBO was happy with the initial script but still a ways off. He was hoping for Lucas Black to play Jessie Custer.
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WTF was that all about. Why did they keep cutting to the surveillance cam whenTony is talking to his lawyer???? To create more false tension for the viewer? The series was one big jerk off with no happy ending.
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Everybody wants a hollywood ending tied up in a nice box and delivered on your doorstep. That's not life, and that's what this whole show was about.
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He was not just a little suspicious, he kept looking over at them and looked sideways at Tony as he headed to the bathroom. It seemed clear that he was going to come out shooting. But yeah, I also thought my DVR had stopped a few minutes early. Horrible ending, one of the worst series finales I've ever seen. After so many years on the air they spend half the episode dealing with their idiot son, one of the least interesting characters on tv. I kept hoping he would die.
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Let's abuse the medium so that it obliterates the immersive qualities that make it effective. We can go deep as you want with symbolism (how's this: Paulie hates the cat because he is Tony's dog/loyal bitch and dog's hate cats) but Chase just did not EXECUTE...that's right...EXECUTE the sudden cut to black properly. If there was even a tiny hint of fade to black or it was set up in a different way (which could have been done) to avoid confusion, then it would have been a perfect ending. Get off your high-horse.
Questioning whether or not it meant "life goes on" or "never see it coming" is par for the course. Wondering if my cable went out means Chase didn't do his F-ing job, highbrow. -
The actors are the only thing that held this show together since season 2 or 3. I have no problem with the performances. The writing was obviously tired and no characters got any real closure except for maybe Junior. Pie-Oh-My, a fucking horse got more closure than Silvio, Christopher and the entire New York storyline put together! What a crock of shit.
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Because he's fucking David Chase, that's why.
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Jun 10, 2007 10:48:01 PM CDT
Chase trying to be hipster fuck's us all. Bada Bing.
by allpowerfulwizardofoz
I am not sure what his message or intent with that shitty last episode was but as great as that series was it ended on a whimper. Movie or no movie in the future that was an ass raping if there ever was one to the fans who devoted so much time to such a great series.
David Chase is pure and simple a fucking asshole. I don't care how "Cool" some people think the ending was because deep down you are full shit and feel shafted so it's easier to play along and say hey he did something cool instead of realizing we were all taken for a ride.
Just over all one of the worst episodes I've ever seen. Very anti-climatic with the Phil story line. Very anti-climatic in general.
He should have taken a cue from the Six Feet Under last episode and done The Sopranos right instead of this garbage. I am fucking livid. -
That it ended exactly on the words "don't stop" in the song? That's kind of a clue that your cable didn't go out, not a coincidence.
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What a fuckin idiot. Nice spoilers. Cheers, douchebag.
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Wow,
Ive never been as disappointed with an ending since the wildly bad ending of the Matrix trilogy. The talkback is similar in that about 80% realize it for the hack job that it was, and the other 20% hang on to the fact that it is so incredible that the 80% are awful. Asking for an ending doesnt mean that we as the disappointed 80% needed some canned hollywood "goodfellas" or "godfather" ending, just an ending. I had heard one today regarding agent harris shooting AJ- this would have been a non hollywood ending that would have been creative, differnet but would have been an ENDING. I will never invest in another David Chase new project, that being said, I have truly enjoyed Sopranos up to this point and will continue to do so on DVD (just like Matrix #1 and the Animatrix, not the terrible sequels!)
For a true "non ending" that is still spoken well of to this day, look to the end of the French Connection with Popeye Doyle running off into the warehouse, open ended, but still cool- Sopranos ending, very disappointing. -
Inquiring minds...
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That FUCKING SUCKED. Just like the last four SHITTY FUCKING seasons. Fuck you David Chase! Go take a shit and die! What a fucking waste of 3 good seasons. Oh and there is NO SYMBOLISM, NO ART, NO BEAUTY, NO IRONY, NO FUCKING NOTHING. It just plain FUCKING SUCKED!!! I will boycott any fucking movie made about this once great, and now utterly pathetic, show!
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I didnt care for the ending. The finale of Deadwood, and now the Sopranos, were anticlimatic for one reason. So they can return at some point in the future. The two moments I adored were A.J.'s exploding car and Phil's imploding head. All in all a pretty good finale. Paulie and the cat kicked ass. what a great way to fuck with a supertitious bastard.
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For those that claim thats why this episode was great, thats a cop out. In real life the mob guy gets whacked or sent to jail. Thats real life. If your going to tell a story end it. Dont leave it to your viewer to finish your own story.
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All the family sitting in the living room at Christmas time? THAT's the ending you'd want? no no you fuckers woulda been all piss and vinegar about that too.
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This network is deeply disappointing, considering all the self masturbatory promos they give themselves. SFU? Now there is HBO's real consistent gem. Totally hard to watch, but the finale was honest to the fans. This? I understand each and every fan who is disappointed. I guess we should have been clued in at the end of season 6a (Which was going to be the original series ending episode) when it ended with a 3 minute cut to lame Christmas party.
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Seems you have more talent in writing a good ending in a few paragraphs then Chase has had in this whole series with that ass raping that just took place.
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PLUTO NASH, Costs a 100 million, makes 5 million
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Never have been. I'm Italian and I wanted all those slimy Dago fucks to die an ugly death. They were all scum. And the last episode was pretty unsatisfying, yes...but I still like that ending. Sorry, if that makes me a fool. I like the tension and I like that I got to imagine the whole family being taken out. David Chase wanted to give people like me the invitation to think that and feel justice was served, and I'm sure he also wanted to leave it open for the eventual movie. I yelled and laughed when it happened, but I kind of admire the guy, and like I say, I'm NOT a fan.
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Which is BY FAR the better show anyways. Man what a fucking waste. I'm actually ANGRY thinking about how they decided to end the show with...NOTHING!!! Retarded.
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no fuckin' zitti?
I actually liked the ending, and like it even more the more I think about it. I doubt there will be a movie, and I hope there isn't one. Is it a nod to The Godfather where the obviously Italian guy goes into the bathroom to get the gun, is it the trucker waiting to cap him, is it the black guys? Who knows? Maybe there's no hit, but shit just keeps on rolling like it always does. The feds are gaining ground. He's found a new psychiatrist. He made Paulie the leader of that crew. What's new? It's a repeating cycle. It's not like the mob's going to end, or even in Jersey. It's just another day in the life of Tony Soprano. And yeah, there was closure. Alientoast's post summed it up pretty well. -
I agree that they wanted to show the world through Tony's eyes in the last scene demonstrating paranoia and fear and what it must be like to *be* him. I got somewhat of a "Godfather II" ending in that Tony made it, but at a tremendous cost, and he *still* has to look over his shoulder. HOWEVER, just CUTTING TO BLACK is as cowardly a move as I have EVER seen to end a series like this. It was cowardice disguised as avant garde ambiguity. It did end the episode, maybe the season in a reasonable manner, but to END THE SERIES like this is insane and laughable. Booo.
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I'm calling bullshit on Chase knowing how he wanted it to end. It's the same thing as "the prequels were written thirty years ago!" This show, as it was now, and as it was the first few seasons are two entirely different shows. The way Chase started it out, it would've ended with Tony's death, prosecution, flipping, whatever. But then he decided to go in an arty direction almost as if he had just started to get into it midway through the show.
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and go on as he has. I DO NOT think he knew what the details would be. Although the conflict with Phil was set up in Season 5. But
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Abuse the medium? Who's highbrow here? What are you, the TV execution police? He looked up as the bell on the door jingled, just as it had several times before, and it cut to black as the song cut with it, "Don't stop". What's not to get? Executed perfectly. If you didn't get what you wanted out of it...so be it. Don't blame the editing of the last scene. The show didn't give you what you wanted. I understand. Everyone could have written a better ending...blah...blah...blah....and that's why we're all here talking about it. Life goes on. Just like the people who keep explaining what happened after it faded to black. What happened was the end. Accept it, disagree with it, whatever. But don't tell me you thought your TiVo cut out. That is just moronic.
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I kept looking for symbolism in this episode and, while there are some red herrings, I don't think the guy in the bathroom was going to kill Tony. In The Godfather, Michael goes and gets the gun from the bathroom because he was patted down when he first arrived. Yes, they did a variation on that scene in one of Tony's dream sequence episodes but I have to agree with another poster that the family (both literal and figurative) will stay together. AJ will grow up to be Tony and Meadow will grow up to be Carmella. They've been repeating dialogue from episodes/seasons past and if tonight's quote from AJ "Again with all the drama!" didn't drive that home, I don't know what does. Maybe AJ doesn't become the heir apparent mob boss but he'll be Tony, always on that edge of holding it together. Anyways, after further reflection, I'm satisfied by the ending. At least it didn't end with Tony waking up next to Julia Roberts and being gay or in the mind of a autistic kid and a snowglobe or Big Pussy walking out of a shower and it all being a dream.
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The show was about Tony Soprano. We wanted closure on him. No kidding there will always be a mob and life goes . WE dont care about the mob we care about Tony and want to see how it all ends for him. Chase didnt show this therefore it sucked.
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No movie. There will be a Saturday morning "Soprano Babies" cartoon before Chase gets them together to make a movie. Trust me on this one.
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No, the worst thing you can do isn't be pretentious - the worst thing you can do is turn a Sopranos talkback into a lameass defense for the most idiotic corrupt chimpanzee of a fucking president in the nation's history. Get the fuck outta' here you neo-con troll.
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Who is left that would want to kill Tony anyways? The only guy who was unaccounted for is supposedly going to testify. And, honestly, I couldn't even remember who he was! Phil's crew was finished with him and, in essence, sold him out. Tony's only worries should be from the government but, with the FBI working on terrorism so much, I'm sure that the mafia takes a back seat to all of that...
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I REALLY don't want a movie. I think it ended perfectly.
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I'm confused- so who actually whacked Phil, Tony's crew or Phil's own?
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Yes, mom and dad, let your kids wake up safe and sound knowing the Family will be watching over them...on Saturdays at 9 on CBS! SOPRANO BABIES is brought to you by the team behind RUGRATS and David Chase.
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that's what that new Comedy Central show Lil Bush IS.
sad...so sad. -
Now if only Chase could have executed the last 4 seconds with a clarity to match your post...I wouldn't have wondered about the cable going out.
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Check out this story
http://tinyurl.com/2upb95
Now check out what the critics are saying. Big surprise. Fuck the critics.
http://tinyurl.com/2t6r6c -
Tony was NOT paranoid. We were! The audience brought the paranoia, and I DO think it was a hit. But Tony was content, the family together, good onion rings, a shitty song from his youth. AND BAM! Lights out motherfucker.
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I think I'll just send HBO a little note with a copy of cancellation order from teh cable company. I've been an HBO subscriber for over 10 years, and before that, we had it for probably 15 more from my parents house. I think Band of Brothers is one of the greatest things ever shown on tv. But, this latest debacle, of their "signature" show, along with no more Rome, no more Deadwood, and constantly giving the wire short shrift, enough is enough. I like big love and entourage, but you know what? I can watch all of those on torrents just a day or two after they come out. So there, HBO, i'll be watching your stuff, and NOT giving YOU any payoff. See how you like that for a while, considering you seem to take pride in doing that to your subscribers.
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I think it wannabe avant-garde ending to cut to black and "imagine" what happens next. Does Meadow sit down next to Tony and the guy in the bathroom comes out shooting and takes out Meadow instead of Tony? Or Does nothing happen at all? Flashing to all the dinner patrons and having no pay-off.... what a stupid way to end the show. Well, if he ever wants a Sopranos movie, I guess he kept his options open.
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I know I am. Fuck HBO. Let the backlash begin. Bada Bing.
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just to say FUCK YOU for John From Cinn.
join me, wont you all? -
this show was never the macho porn that it appeared to be for most. In the end, it was all about the struggle to keep a stable family life, while trying to balance a morally bankrupt means of susistence. In the end, David Chase was telling us, Tony's life will always teeter on the edge of destruction, and question whether or not all his sacrifices were worth the cost. He very well could have gotten clipped, or simply had dinner with his family. Tony walks on the edge, and his family walks with him, whether they realize it or not.
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and here I thought that the series ender for Angel was ambivelant! So the speculation begins; it's like a "Choose Your Own Adventure" novel. Was it brillant or was it just lazy? Did Chase have a plan or did he write himself into a corner? Fuck me if I know. L
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Did you come up with all those big thoughts by yourself? That was by far the most incoherent trite bullshit that I've ever read. Thanks for the laugh.
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Jun 10, 2007 11:14:13 PM CDT
I'm already really sad it ended, but if Tony had died..
by cletus van damme
...I'd feel even worse. I'm glad it ended this way. And there was subtle tension throughout...the hallway camera monitors in Tony's office, etc. I just wish Finn would've gotten the buttrape.
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"Coppola said in Hearts of Darkness - 'the worst thing you can do is be pretentious.' Made in America was the most pretentious piece of shit I've ever seen in my entire life."....................................Um. Did you see Godfather III? Pretty pretentious. The irony here is palpable. And I don't recall David Chase's offspring appearing in a poorly acted principle role in this finale, either. Thanks for the diatribe though. Sleepy time now. G'night all.
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...would've been the fat kid from Bad Santa. We were *this* close to being rid of him.
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How funny would it be if we find out tomorrow that HBO's signal did in fact go out right at that moment. I'm not saying I believe that, but how funny would that be if we wake up tomorrow and find out all these "that was brilliant" posts were just praising a signal interruption.
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I started to watch it, confused and pissed about the finale thinking "Is this show going to about nothing as well?" Then after the John From Cincinnati premiere I have pretty much figured that yes, it will be about nothing.
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for just trying to privatly solicit a chat on this episode, it seems like it would be something that people would want to talk about, i didnt drop any spoilers, you guys know this Todd fella, well, hes a real reactionary........
im glad alot of people are on board with this ending, it allows you to have your cake and eat it too, i mean, tony could die in 20 seconds, or end up doing 20 years, however you want to look at it, it doesnt matter, what does matter is that the point is, Tony will never be safe or secure, untill he dies, but did anyone really want to see Tony dead? -
All of the elements that could have made a clear ending were in place. The ambiguity was intentional. Trying to read something into the "clues" is a waste of time.
The show ended in the air from an action standpoint, and with some closure from a Soprano family standpoint. It was a perfect moment for everything to end, and it did.
Arguing about what happened after the screen went black is like worrying about what kind of kids Han Solo and Princess Leia would have had. Oh, wait a minute, that's the reason this website exists.
Sorry. Argue on. -
for having the possibility enter my mind that something went technically wrong with my cable. I guess we are legion, then. Guess what, genius, have the last second be the camera as if we are viewing through Tony's eyes, watching Meadow come through the door or even START to look up from his menu and then suddenly cut to black.
Wow, a moron just trumped Chase and eliminated the cable malfunction possibility.
Bad storytelling is bad storytelling. -
This fucking sucked.
And a few more words...
Blow me Chase. This was shit, and you owe me my time back. What fucking crap..
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Jun 10, 2007 11:19:09 PM CDT
Maybe there's symbolism in the episode number (#86)
by cletus van damme
Maybe Tony does get 86'ed.
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I don't know why I'm defending this, but if Chase hadn't made the cut so sudden and seemingly random it wouldn't have had the shock factor and left us all hanging. That's actually good storytelling in a way and good editing. But what do I know? I just write this shit for a living.
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he had a black lightsaber.
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was so bad I think Milch was pissed at HBO for cancelling Deadwood----gonna cancel HBO tommorow. Cant see paying for 22 minutes of Entourage a week when dvd be out in the fall
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if that sudden fade to black was meant to totally take me out of the moment and wonder if my cable went screwy, then BEST WRITING EVAH. It wasn't the cut to black that was flawed, it was the second before where they should have shown the camera via Tony's viewpoint and they didn't.
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Well if the ambiguity was intentional, then I really bet you loved seasons 4,5 and 6. The people who originally watched this show and fell in love with it did so because of clever forshadowing that had payoffs, if you were smart enough to pay attention. We fell in love with it because there was clear direction. This finale was weak and not memorable at all. Gee, maybe thats reflected in the fact that the show that basically invented the terms "Water cooler show" no longer is the topic of thirsty workers. Why? It has gone downhill. I have said nothing critical of the show until now. I was waiting for sort of payoff, and I'm not even talking about violence. The only storyline that had a hint of closure was Juniors, and that was it. The rest of the time we had shit smeared in our eyes.
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The entire series was about Tony's life. It ends when his life ends, abrupt, with no warning, he doesn't even know it.
Just like he told Bobby in the boat.
Other people on this board have already pointed it out.
And it wasn't a massacre; it was just Tony that gets it, just like Phil.
Tony died with his family watching.
Perfect ending, and it still leaves you all talking about it. -
Jun 10, 2007 11:26:34 PM CDT
No there is no symbolism. It was just utter garbage.
by allpowerfulwizardofoz
Through and through it was a bad bad episode. One of the worst. The worst. I've never been so disappointed in an ending in my life. I mean this makes George Lucas look like a saint now for his work on the prequels. I am not giving Lucas a pass but you know what I mean. At least there was conclusion to the story arc in Star Wars even if some of us hated what that story arc was he did give us closure on Vader. Chase on the other hand single handed brought down a network tonight. Hurray! Congratulation's HBO on fucking over your subscribers.
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trying to see the "brillant artistry" in this, you are fools. This was stupid. This was called writing yourself in a corner where you couldn't pull yourself out of. They fucked around so long in the season with bullshit that they had to tag on extra episodes and they still fucked around.
The Sopranos and company are all killers and thugs. For those who are trying to pull the "it's more about family" BS, well it's about family and FAMILY. It covers both worlds. And Meadow and Carm trying to act all high and mighty that they don't get their fucking money from killers and thugs makes me sick. "I hate how Italians are treated" YOUR DADS A MOB BOSS! ARGH. STUPID WRITING.
This was a cop out and not satisfying in any way. I hope the hacks responsible never work again...but I'm sure they will. Because people are afraid to critique them and call them on their bullshit.
Oh and what was all the shit with the cat?? -
You're right. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling. That's why I'm glad Chase wrote this episode and you didn't. Now, I'm off to bed snickering over the fact that the person trying to squelch my argument is named, "Boober". Cut to black was perfectly executed. Seeing Meadow would have defeated the purpose of the cut. Silly to think otherwise. You are legion my friend, on a ship of fools. To paraphrase Captain Kirk in the Wrath of Khan...."Boober, I'm laughing at the superior intellect." Nighty nite!
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Did it shock you? Did you sit there with your jaw dropped? Did you want one...more...frame of information? Mission accomplished.
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I dont know, the first episode was ok. I was completely shocked by the shittiness of the finale... But I just read a review from someone who has seen 3 of the first episodes and I really dont think I can handle watching another show about nothing, where their is never any resolution ever.
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I guess it will take a week or so before it fades into oblivion then.
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not everybody is on board... come on guys.... the song beneath dont stop believing on the jukebox was "any way you want it"... we get to have our cake and eat it too... right?
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I say, it for sure jumped the shark when Carmella got back with Tony. But it may have jumped the shark when Ralph Cifaretto became a major character.
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thats too funny.
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man, i didnt drop no spoilers, i play by the rules, and here i am, my girlfriend hates this show, and my parents are dead!!!!! GIVE ME BACK MY PRIVLEDGES... THIS IS UNFAIR.... isnt that what this fucking site is here for, to talk about this shit, man FUCK YOU GUYS at AIC, i witness an awesome event in geek history, and i cant even talk about it on this site, and they say this sites sold out... couldn't be.... FUCK, im turning into TODD, jaded and alone
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The writing was decent. I disagree on the execution. Seeing meadow or having it cut just short (like starting to look up from a Menu) would have eliminated the malfunction possibility for me. I had the reaction I had. I'm not trying to squelch anything. In keeping with the culture of the TB, you would understand that your knock on my name just backfired. The pretentious condescension is noted and helps you to reaffirm your position. I get it. You know, it's funny how at the end of Heart of Darkness when the phrase "The Horror, The Horror" is uttered, I never wonder whether or not the last lines were ommited due to a typing error...
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I WAS PISSED BECAUSE I DID NOT KNOW IF THAT IS WHAT HE INTENDED OR IF MY CABLE WENT OUT. MISSION CONFUSION ACCOMPLISHED - IMMERSION REMOVED AND MOMENT BETRAYED DUE TO MUDDY EXECUTION.
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the possibilities, just plug in whatever ending you want, i bet you can make it work, use your fuckign imaginations, you sorry sacks
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...Chase ended it the way he wanted and envisioned. And as for those of you calling him a hack, if he is then he's a working hack, and just what are your writing credentials? Anyone here have a top ten all-time TV drama on your IMDB page?
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need to get their own shows and end them "perfectly."
Congrats to Chase for a great run. -
SWERVE, MOTHERFUCKERS! SWERVE!
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How many times has this concept been mentioned in an episode of the show (especially lately):
When you get whacked, you don't hear the bullet. It's just lights out. They kept referring to that concept all season, they set up an obvious hit, the whole family is there... and then... nothing. Cause he died.
I don't like it. But I bet that's the point of it. -
Wow, that end scene was so tense! I loved it so much, we will never know!!!!
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someone mentioned something like this show more or less invented that term? ummm thats a term thats been used for many shows over the last 15 to 20yrs if not longer. lol
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I didnt NEED to see more KILLIN' I just wanted MORE CON-CLU-SION. I really hope there is a PLAN past this.. let me guess, directed by Micheal Imperioli?
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It was a bitch slap from Chase. If I want pretentious I watch a Vicent Gallo film, Brown Bunny. But when I watch The Sopranos I want closure. With all the time that was vested in this series this has to be one of the worst things a network and writer could have done. They alienated a majority of their fan base by trying to pull a hipster move with this ending. It's selfish.
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Will Kevin Bacon get Sean Penn? We'll never know!
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the way he looks up with that "doh" expression, right before it goes black. Yeah, I think it was supposed to be set up from Sopranos Home Movies episode- when it happens, you don't expect it, you don't hear it, it just happens. Screen goes black. yeah, I think that's what they intended.
But what the hell do I know- for all I know it could just be the movie setup, or Paulie and his Cat the series. -
Relax, dude. Take your finger off the cap button. Damn. I know they say it's HBO not TV, but it's really just TV. Not worth popping a blood vessel over it.
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Show runners always do this with projects that run too long. The end up hating their own creation and the rabid fans so they take a final shit on them before laughing their way to the bank. At least the Shield is still good (knock on wood).
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Consider my responses as part theatrical. When running with the wolves here on the ole' TB, you have to act the part or get eaten. Fear not, it is but a role I play and no meds are needed ;).
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the state of feeling two conflicting emotions at the same time. I think that pretty much sums it up for me. I thought the writing for this ep was sub-par and directionless but the execution of the film making - framing, art direction, editing and score - was pretty wonderful.
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that the finale was going to be contraversial. He hit it right on. Look at this board. "It's awesome!" "It's bullshit!" I think it;s safe to conclude that at the very least Tony will not survive as is. Other than the "shifty eyes" guy in the bathroom, there's the gangbangers that walked in and then the coup de grace impending federal indictment. So I think one way or another Tony's fucked.
My final vote: It was a memborable finale. -
The more I think about it, the more I like it. ITA with the many talkbackers who have parsed the perfectly consistent explanation--we cut to black because Tony has been killed, in front of his family, in retribution for Phil (and probably, I would add, by someone in NYC loyal to Phil that Tony hadn't factored in). We've had an entire scene that has been shot and edited to make us feel Tony's typical and warranted paranoia (even if, in fact, he himself is not being paranoid in this particular scene), and it ends with a shot that makes us feel his own utter bafflement in the split second between the bullet entering his brain and the cessation of consciousness. I mean, come on, TBers -- if someone unexpectedly shot you in the head, what's your last thought? "Ooh, nice closure?" Or "WTF?????"
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So even if I say I got it and yeah I really think it was brilliant... A little part of me is being ignorant and selfish thinking that was lazy writing. That floating guy on this new show is like the kiss of death for series television.
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So let's speculate on the plot of "The Sopranos:The Motion Picture". Any guesses?
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'cause I thought I lost the reception at the worst time EVER! But no, it was just an "artsy-fartsy" ending for the show. Did Tony get whacked? I would have to say he did get killed: that guy at the counter that walked in before AJ was eye-balling T like crazy. I bet when he came out of the john, he wasn't "holding his dick in his hand". If so, then Meadow, et al probably saw T get shot to death right in front of them. Brutal! As I'm sitting here writing this, I'm realizing just how appropriate that ending was. Face it, nothing was going to satisfy everyone, and even if we did see Tony get killed in full-color, well, would that necessarily make it better? It was a good way to go out: enjoying a final peaceful moment with The Soprano Family, the last "good time", before everything went to complete shit. Well, it was a brilliant series and I am sad to see it end. But of course, all good things must pass...
(now get off your lazy ass, HBO, and bring back Deadwood, fast!) -
Chase = Tony
Paulie = The Loyal, abused fans
The cat = unresolved storylines, plots, Chase's writing.
When you apply this to the dialog, it makes sense!
P.S. Who is Ramses? -
CUZ I SAW ONE FUCK OF AN ENDING!!!! GOD DAMN!!! THAT WAS THE MOST VIOLENT FUCKING BLOW OUT OF AN ENDING I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!!! FAR MORE VIOLENT THAN A SNUFF FILM...FAR MORE PERVERSE THAN BEASTY PORN...THAT WAS A FUCKING BLOODBATH AND A HALF!!!! AND SWEET JESUS...WHO KNEW MEADOW HAD THAT IN HER?!?!?!?!? MAN...I GOT A BIGGER STIFFY FOR HER NOW....ESPECIALLY THE WAY SHE WENT AFTER THAT THIRD GUY'S TAINT LIKE THAT!!!!! WHOA DID HE BLEED LIKE A STUCK PIG OR WHAT???? AND OF COURSE....WHO CAN FORGET THAT FINAL LINE!!!! "Okay, A.J....you are ready to join the Army."....TOTALLY WORKED AFTER WHAT HE DID TO THAT KID WITH THE SUNDAE!!! TALK ABOUT COLD - BOTH FIGURATIVELY AND LITERALLY!!!! THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY THAT THE F.C.C. IS GONNA LET THAT EVER BE SEEN AGAIN!!!! NOT EVEN ON HBO OR THE DVD RELEASES!!!! BUT I GOTTA SEE IT...AND MY LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!!...And thus, even better that booze and sex! - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!
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Chase is saying something profound here. Every buy a Chevrolet? Ever buy a Ford? See, he made this episode crap on purpose. He is trying to tell us to make better products. What a genius!
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Actually, it turns out Meadow has inherited Sofie's powers from "Carnivale." She fulfills Brother Justin's apocalyptic designs at the very moment she enters the door to the restaurant. When the screen goes black, it's the end of the world--the end of everything-- not just Tony getting whacked. Everyone in existence gets whacked, thus simultaneously providing complete closure for both "The Sopranos" and "Carnivale." The End.
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It ended. I thought it was good. Every season has ended on family, as did this. Well done. Thanks for playing guess the spoilers! FrancisBegbie nailed the episode, including the ending, which even he didn't believe.
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Shot in the back of the head while distracted by Meadow. Just like Phil being distracted by his family and getting it in the head. Neither of the saw it coming.
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Most people are saying it was a crap end to what was once a great series. The people saying this ending was 'realistic' are idiots. Sorry, but but ending a show about a guy who murders his nephew after a car wreck, and all the other horrible shit Tony has done - ending it this way is far from realistic.
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When a guy like Chase pulls a stunt like this, you dont fawn like little school girls and say things like "oh by golly he's got the upper hand on us h'yuck h'yuck h'yuck."
no - you say, "wow what a sell-out. Instead of actually giving us a conclusion, he pulls a 'well, just in case we get an offer for more money, lets not do something we can't undo." - he wrote a cliffhanger to finish the series. You dont applaud that. You dont praise that. You call it what it is: a cheap stunt. -
I haven't been this pleased since Twin Peaks Episode 29. Pure brilliance.
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The ending works on multiple levels. The cut to black makes the audience think the signal malfuntioned, the tension of the scene itself shows Tony's paranoia. The guy at the counter and the one in the restroom are mafia. The young couple, the trucker, and the 2 black guys are FBI. Both sides closing in. Does Tony die, or does the FBI grab him? The answer is the flip side of the 45 Tony was playing: "Any Way You Want It." Chase is gonna catch hell for this. Oh, the episode's title, "Made In America", was one possible title for the series many years ago.-----later-----m
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I should have known. Why did I get all pumped for this episode for something unexpected/shocking/interesting to happen? David Chase and his artistic ego just went overboard and just took the show to the gutter in its final episode. Anyone who compares this to the Lynch'a last Twin Peaks is completely retarded. In that episode (one of the best hrs of tv of all time) it ends with a cliffhanger but at least we got an hour of completely madness. I am just angry right now- 100% at Chase.
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...get a messy, ambiguous and sometimes brilliant finale. Anyone who is surprised it ended this way never really watched the show that closely. I'm not saying I like this ending, but I expected something like it.
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What bullshit. Sopranos has sucked most of the time since after season 3 anyway.
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Oz was the best show in HBO history! It never would've gone out like that!! Oz always delivered with a bang! But that aside, at first I was disappointed with the Sopranos ending but now having time to reflect and hear other's interpretations of it I think it was in the words of my mother- a "satisfying" ending. There was resolution. And it stayed true to many of the show's main themes. My heart was racing at the end and while I would've loved seeing Tony get wacked- A) maybe he did (the whole fade to black thing... which if true was brilliant) or B) that scene in a nutshell showed the craziness of his life. Always living on edge and trying to balance as a previous talkbacker put it- both families. Bottom line- I will have to watch it again and let it sink in before I put forth my final verdict. But still, Oz was my show baby! ;)
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I forgot...
Death by Journey. Wow..
That's just how I want to go.
Fuck you Chase. -
The opening shot of T looking as if dead, T being chauffered in the "ice" truck, "You don't see it comming",...how do you not say Tony's not dead? My only question is was it just Tony or did the whole fam get it?
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The good guys lost. Evil won. End of story. What were you expecting from David Lynch?
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As does the life of this mobster.
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Saying Chase is a genius by showing how stressed out and paranoid Tonys life is by doing the final scene that way... Hello??? This has been an ongoing theme since day one!!! Face it, you've just had crap smeared in your face. This was not a fitting end to this show, not in the slightest. This is not 'artsy' either. He ended the show with a 'wink wink' which is probably the most cliche ending you can come up with. It's just plain lazy as well. Very disappointing.
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In my mind, The Sopranos is one of the best shows ever, and a conventional wrapping up of the series would have been some serious bullshit.
David Chase is one of the best writers of the tv narrative, and his stature, the stature of the TV show deserves a great ending like this...closure is for cartoons. -
Evil always wins in America.
What tobacco exec ever got the death penalty for covering up evidence?
What Firestone employee was hung after their faulty tires killed?
In America you will get more time served for stealing money than taking a life.
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street-lights...people. That shit ruled. Best. Ending. Ever.
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This couldn't have ended any better for me. Such an iconic shot, one of my favorite families of all time... happy, and together. What happens later doesn't matter. In that moment, it's the happiest ending that could be.
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Brilliant.
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how anybody got the the Sopranos were whacked at the end. The way I took it Meadow walked in and they all ate onion rings.
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Some of you guys need to explain this to me like i'm a 4 year-old, because I just don't see it.
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It just felt... wrong.
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I thought it was pretty brilliant. What a horrible way to have to go through life, looking over your shoulder like that. There was definitely something lacking though. It wasn't as emotionally profound as I expected it to be. Its aim was to depict a pattern. From Junior to Tony to A.J., hence the shot of A.J. coming down the stairs wearing a bathrobe. I understand the frustration some fans feel after waiting years for an epic sense of closure, but I feel like it was a perfectly fitting end to what is perhaps the finest one-hour television show ever produced. Funny how Judd Apatow is making a killing at the box office and then the most anticipated program in the history of the medium that turned its back on him goes ahead and basically cribs a page from The Cable Guy, which was bad the first time I saw it but has since grown on me over the course of many repeat viewings. Oh and Jeff, thanks for pointing out the song below Don't Stop Believin', which has now been permanently owned by The Sopranos. Very clever little joke there, Mr. Chase. Tonight has witnessed the end of an era. The Sopranos was the greatest and it will be sorely, sorely missed.
Oh, and Nikki Finke, whose blog is always a great read, is incredibly out of line with the fury of her reaction. She's predicting mass-cancellations for subscriptions, and basically calling for Chase's head. While I freely admit that there was a weird edit or two, how can you sound off like that to a guy who just birthed what is unarguably at least one of the five greatest television shows ever made. I mean, how ungrateful can you get? She sounds as if she was personally owed a satisfying ending, like anyone who was satisfied by the finale needs a labotomy, I mean, relax. So The Sopranos finale didn't live up to your expectations? Big deal! Who cares? Is that why you watch a show for 7 years, because you know the last episode will be just the way you want it? What else was Chase supposed to do? I think it's kind of hypocritical for a journalist like Nikki to basically call out guys like Eli Roth one minute, and then call for blood the next minute and write about how let down they are when there isn't enough of it. Personally I thought the last scene was absolutely heart-stopping. It was so tense it was almost painful. There were so many what if's, it was driving me crazy, and then to see them sit down together as a family, happy, or at least pretending to be, after all that shit, it says a lot about the Soprano family. How they're survivors. They were eating a new restaurant too, so it was like new ground for them. A fresh start, or as fresh as a clan like theirs could get. With Phil gone, no one in NY has the balls to take Tony out. And as tonight reinforced, the only guy with the balls to meet Tony (who has Paulie back-up) all alone is Agent Dwight. So I think it's safe to assume that he lives and everyone continues on their current trajectories. I think A.J., with the help of a therapist, will be able to right his life, and if he's as smart as he thinks he is, he might be able to avoid becoming just like his father. Meadow will become the pride of the Soprano family, example A in Tony and Carm's defense that they're good parents. Carm is destined to grow old and continue to look the other way, so long as tragedy never personally touches her. She's a supporter, a loyal wife who knows better than to break-up her family, or leave The Family. And Tony? Who knows? How will this affect him long term? Will he eventually mellow out and learn to appreciate the time he has with his friends and family, or will he continue to be a manipulative, morally bankrupt asshole, a guy who says he looks out for his family but feels relief when his his nephew dies and can never resist the opportunity to pick on his son or project his own issues onto other people's tragedy in the vain hope of winning their sympathies. In Tony's world, everything revolves around him and how deserving he is of other people's pity. Tony is such a multi-faceted character with so many intricate layers, it has been a joy to watch Gandolfini create this stunning portrayal of a Mafia boss. When people talk about great performances like Brando in the Godfather or De Niro in Raging Bull, surely Gandolfini's name belongs in the conversation. The stars aligned for that actor and that character, not to mention David Chase. For those of you who go to bed tonight dreaming of a Sopranos movie, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Their story has ended, however abruptly, after what has been the best nine episodes of the series' fanastic six-season run. I feel privileged to have been a part of from the beginning. Thank you Chase, Gandolfini, and everyone else who had a hand in bringing us the Sopranos and welcoming us to The Family on Sunday nights. Can you even imagined how this show might've turned out if Anthony LaPaglia had been cast instead. Talk about a cultural injustice...
Now, the explanation about Chase having the ending planned and how it's all about a season 1 convo between Tony and Bobby about how you'd never even know when you died, life would just go back, is certainly credible. But it almost seems too easy. I feel like if Chase was going to kill off Tony, he would've done so onscreen, not left it up to our imaginations. Of course, I think Tony will one day succumb to death at the hand of some anxious and stupid up-and-comer. Or he could just be at the wrong place at the wrong time. I doubt he'd slip into old age as quietly as Junior. But do I think The Bathroom Guy took a piss, washed his hands, and then came out firing at Tony in front of his family, no? Who ordered it, unless it was the old hit Phil put out on him that his little henchman said they'd nip in the bud. Speaking of, does that Phil's right=hand man take over that NY crew? Or would it be Carmine, who would've taken it over if he wasn't afraid of starting a war with Phil, so he just stepped aside and said he wanted no part of it. I mean, henchman isn't fit to be the head of a family. And also, what do you think happened to the two babies? Looked to me like they were going to roll into traffic and possibly die. Did they get the door of the minivan open? It all happened so fast and I was on Nyquil so...
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I've always loved David Chase. The Rockford Files was one of my favorites as a kid. The way he treated his audience like shit in that last scene leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. The "everything stays the same," or "the wicked are not punished" or whatever bullshit lesson he was trying to impart is not my beef. I expected some kind of ending like this, but to play with the audience like he did, danger around every corner, Meadow parking like 6 times, showed total contempt for his audience. Not very classy.
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By ending the series this way, David chase has reinforced his statement that Mob life is not glamerous or worthwile. After everything, (a) Tony's best friend (Sil) is in a coma, (b) Tony is facing indictment, (c) one of his closest allies is a rat, (d) his son is completely depndent on him, and (e) though Uncle Junior, Tony sees that there is not a bright future for a mob boss. AND TO CAO IT OFF, the epsidoe ended with the most tense 5 minutes of the entire series-- which all goes to show that Tony will live the rest of his life looking over his shoulder, in constant danger. I won't call this a satisfying ending, but Chase really stuck to his guns and made a point. Bravo Sopranos!
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By ending the series this way, David chase has reinforced his statement that Mob life is not glamerous or worthwile. After everything, (a) Tony's best friend (Sil) is in a coma, (b) Tony is facing indictment, (c) one of his closest allies is a rat, (d) his son is completely dependent on him, and (e) through Uncle Junior,who has lost his memory and lives alone in a mental hospital, Tony sees that there is not a bright future for a mob boss. AND TO CAP IT OFF, the episode ended with the most tense 5 minutes of the entire series-- which all goes to show that Tony will live the rest of his life looking over his shoulder, in constant danger. I won't call this a satisfying ending, but Chase really stuck to his guns and made a point. Bravo Sopranos!
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HBGo fuck yourself. Cancelling. Mirajeff, come on. No offense, but you can't beleive the horseshit you're typing. Cop out. Cowardly. Insulting.
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As unresolved Sopranos been in the past, it has never used gimmicks, i.e. breaking the 4th wall or crazy edits. David Chase's ending was not a 'screw you' to his audience, but instead it was the POV of his main character being shot in the head as he sits with his family. I am a 100 percent this was his intention because:
1) the times this has been talked about this season. The 1st episode Tony tells Bacala that you probably don't even hear it. This was highly emphasized as it was shown in a flashback in the second to last episode in a show that very, very rarely shows flashbacks.
2) It harks back to Silvio seeing the NY mobster shot and how Sil talked about how surreal it was.
3) Leotardo was killed in the same way, gun unknowingly to his head, happy with his family, and then - nothing.
4) No one is sitting next to Tony. That Meadow arrives late gives the assasin a clear shot in a world where families are left unharmed. If Meadow parked sooner, it wouldn't happen. This makes the parking scene not a stupid little scene, but a terribly mundane thing that turns tragic.
4) The sick irony of Meadow running in just in time to see her father brains shot out is very "Sopranos."
5) Tony's face. He's not happy to see Meadow. He knows right then, by the feeling in the room, that something is wrong.
6) The Godfather symbolism. (Suspicious man walks into the bathroom)
7) The Hemingway sympolism. Rewatching the scene one time convinced me that Tony was killed. He
8) The blackness. The nothingness. There is no song at the end. If David Chase is telling the audience Fuck You its only in that he shows a death that goes to a BIG NOTHING. There is no dream house with Livia, no other world that Tony thought about when he did peyote. It blackness and soundless. To be taken from the 6 seasons to this is chilling, as it might be our fates too someday. This is the idea he came up with years ago, to show a life and world just ending with a shot in the head, not a runninig-out-of-tape finale that would piss everyone off.
The reason he did it this way is so there would be discussion about the last episode while most people will conclude a year or so now that he was killed. -
I wrote in the thread after The Blue Comet episode exactly what happened in the finale and the copy I saw turned out to be a finished cut. Everyone that called me a liar or an attention whore needs to fess up. I wrote verbatim what happened back on Wednesday of this past week.
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Disappointing ending to an overall excellent show. All you pretentious jackasses who say that those who didn't like it just want everything spoon fed and don't like symbolism are complete morons. Also, people who say he was shot in the last shot are kind of stretching it since there really isn't enough evidence to prove this, besides maybe the awkward 15 second blank screen. At least I can take solace in the fact that I can watch the glory that was seasons 1-5 anytime I want.
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I will watch a show until it ends. My Friends, My wife, Everyone I know gave up on this show years ago. I stuck with it. I expected some kind of resolution or end. The last episode was complete bullshit. I feel like everyone involved with the production of this show said " hey thanks for waiting for over a year in between episodes and not giving up on us.....you dumb fuck!!!! See you in line for the movie, ya retard!!!" I am done with all things Soprano And David Chase related. Thanks alot assholes!
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having watched it twice more (the very ending). The paranoia is primarily ours and built around what we've seen so far and our expectance of a violent hit. The dude at the counter appears less threatening upon another look. It's conceivable that a hit is about to occur, but I don't feel it. I feel the cut at "don't stop..." is like our longing for the show not stop. But like so many good things in life it ends quickly and not as we necessarily expect or want it to. Seeing it again I found the ending quite uplifting and it's cool to see the family all together enjoying somethig as simple as onion rings. Beautiful. Tony's death would have been so tiresome. All that speculation was pretty jejune, and Chase found a way to end his series in the classiest and smartest way imaginable. Oh, and NO that is not Robert Patrick. As has been said, it's another actor who actually far more resembles John Heard, only skinnier.
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Was zombie Lucius Vorenus giving zombie Pie-o-my a blumpkin... oh yeah, and Finn was given a Roman war helmet by Zombie Vito
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I wrote a rambling entry above, but does anyone agree that the tolling bell pretty much shows that Tony's life was then and there taken?
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Is Reading All This And Jerking Off Into A Sock
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Did anyone REALLY want to see this series end with anything resolute? And if anyone thinks this supposedly bad ending is going to tarnish the series' legacy, try to remember that Seinfeld ended with a controversial ending and it's still touted as one of the greatest sitcoms ever. Oh, and there will be no movie, SINCE TONY DIED. And one more thing, go fuck yourselves.
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Mr. Chase, Let me bask in the glow that is your brilliance Sir. Let me count the ways in which I appreciate the fact that, season after every (other) season (year), you would reward my meager little existence with your profound ponderings on the travails and nature of man (life's a bitch, stupid!). The way in which you would (begrudgingly) sacrifice your lofty ideals to offer up the occasional nod to tradition (read: plot and momentum) and move along the story of Tony & co (like it was all eventually going to lead to some enlightening and satisfying place) really warmed my heart. I suspect that now that this series' drag on your artistic ambitions is finally (sigh) over, you can really get back to doing what you were doing before all of us ignorant americans got ourselves all sugared up on your virtuousity, and get back to directing the kinds of grand cinematic benchmarks that you and your ilk (scorcese, fincher, bogdonovich) were always known for. Oops, scratch that last sentiment. I forgot you trodded along for many a decade without catching this first creative wind. I know you felt that silly things like respecting your audiences wishes to produce 4 years' worth of stories over a 4 year timetable was always beneath you (you did it your way baby), but I can't help but suspect that not everyone is as dimwitted as me, and might actually have a problem with ever giving you another chance with their faith & time (hi Mr. Carter). But you'll always be able to count on me and a few select friends of mine (one). See, we already talked about this after the show tonight, and have decided that instead of agreeing with the likely sentiments of the small-minded (majority of the populace) that I suspect may have a problem with the way in which you ended (didn't end) the series, we will instead applaud the brave way in which you didn't compromise your vision, and give us our cake. It is in this way that we will appear to have a greater understanding of what it truly means to know art. Who needs to be spoon fed anyway, right Mr. Chase? Anyway, I know that since you'll never be bothered to read any of the gallery's feedback, this "bravo" to you will go unheard, but I had to express myself anyways. To think, now you can get back to doing what you've always wanted to do and make small digital "art house" films. You are a fuckstick beyond peer.
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I could not agree more. Please excuse me while I am spoon fed bullshit...You see I am a Dummy and just don't get it.
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Everything you say is true, however, it could just as easily been a family eating onion rings together. Like Rosemary's Baby, Pan's Labyrinth, and a hundred other wonderful classics, a perfect ambiguous ending really can go either way.
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Its the extreme fast-cut that makes it less ambiguous to me. Chase could have had a fade-out, with Tony looking paranoid at everyone in the diner, with us not knowing if someone's going to kill him or not. Instead, in a second, its all gone.
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East coasters- check HBO on demand.
The last scene is different.
Myself and a dozen others watches sopranos on the east coast. Last show is meadow.
Supposedly west coast and definitely on demand (just checked it), ends with Tony.
Any idea why the switch was made? -
Any east coasters notice that the On-demand ending was different than the one we saw?
Meadow was the last thing myself and many others saw. It is what is making some of these "tony's dead" discussions more difficult to discuss because some of us saw different endings.
On-demand has the last shot as tony's face. -
If Chase really wanted to say 'Fuck You' to his audience, he would have ended the show with Meadow parking. Instead he ended it with Tony looking up, a bell tolling, and him dying instantly. It is a brilliant death scene.
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I was pretty pissed when the last thing I saw was meadow's face at the diner.
Tony looking up is a much better ending.
Why did we get two different endings?
It showing meadow and cutting to black points at the fact that Tony died.
Showing his face as the last scene, doesn't lead me to believe it was a death scene.
My questions- Which ending is going on the DVD and why did only some of us get meadow as the last shot? -
LaZ, I can confirm that the last thing I saw was Meadow at the door to the diner. Something's definitely up if others saw Tony and heard a bell at the end. Perhaps the real ending will only be released on the dvd?
The episode was perfect up until the last five mins. I will never eat onion rings or listen to Journey again.
Lots of excellent symbolism all over this episode, though. The cat was definitely Christopher reincarnated. Notice how Paulie says that cats steal the breath from babies? Chris was suffocated by Tony. The mangled child seat... See where I'm going with this? It was also interesting that the cat caught rats for the guys at the Bing while Tony Sirico, who portrays Paulie, had the 'no rat' clause written into his contract.
No way around it. The ending was robbery. You invest all this time and emotion just to be given a blank canvas? It's not our job to finish the story! We allowed Chase to tell his story and allowed these characters into our homes. And he couldn't even be bothered to conclude it??? -
Its funny, because if you read the first comments on many sites, they talk about it being tony's vision because the last shot IS meadow.
West Coasters saw a different version. On-demand IS a different version. I just checked it again.
Personally, I prefer the last shot showing tony, but for those that think tony got shot, showing him, instead of meadow kind of screws things up.
I don't prefer it but I was willing to believe that was the last thing he saw before he got shot.
This ending shot change REALLY makes a big difference.
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Nikki Leotardo...he was the man who walked to the bathroom! He was phils cousin, and in an early episode 6!
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I haven't seen anything that can back it up. I've seen that around in a few places. Screenshot? IMDB link? Haven't seen one yet.
BS until I see something. -
He cant even decide which fucked up ending to use
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I was very disappointed in the final conversation between Tony and Corrado. I remember stumbling onto some spoilers before Season 6B started that Tony would have a breakthrough in therapy and realize that he was sexually abused by Junior, which would have explained their strange and complex relationship. According to the spoilers, Tony would have forgiven Junior for the abuse and said that he's spent his entire adult life carrying on the family tradition of abuse and now he knows it wasn't because of him. That would have been so much more epic than some galaxy nonsense talk and denture porn.
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otto- Personally, I am not pissed about either ending.
I would just prefer that they would stick to ONE :)
Showing meadow as the last shot favors those that say that tony got killed and the last thing he saw was meadow coming through the door.
Showing tony as the last shot, gives me the feeling that its paranoid tony and that live goes on as usual for him- just another day in the world of tony and the same kinds of issues he dealt with in every other season.
If on-demand is ONLY showing Tony as the last shot and not the alternate ending, a lot of us east coasters saw, most people on the east coast who may only see this once could have a different opinion of the ending based on a single shot.
For such a big finale, I am surprised that they would do this. I would love to get an answer. -
I manage a a little side forum where we discuss shit like this among other things, a bunch are saying it is bullshit that they didn't get a resolution to the story and then one guy comes in and says they are all smoking crack, that he saw Tony get it in the back of the head. I thought he was just fucking with the guys cause they all needed a little vagisil, but if some people are saying that Meadow's face is the last shot with a fade and some are saying it is Tony's face with a fade, is this guy just projecting his own imagination of what he thought was gonna happen or did he see a completely different ending from most of America?
Could they have pulled a fast one on us? Is this the modern equivalant of Booby Ewing in the shower with a twist?
If anyone actually witnessed someone shoot Tony, sound off! If you think it it might have happened after the fade, STFU, let's get some numbers on the differences. -
I'm sorry you have taken my dissapointment with this final episode so personally. Could it be that you are perhaps one of the chosen ones who truly "know" art more so than the rest of us? It appears so, as you are taking personal stabs at me (for voicing my heartbreak about the (mis)direction of a (at times) great(ish) TV show. In fact, I didn't want splosions and stuff, rather a creativly conceptualized ending to Mr. Chases(?) story. You do understand that he was accepting paychecks from HBO to TELL US A STORY?!?! If I wanted to come up with my own conclusion, I would've just skipped tonights episode and "used my imagination". Nah brother, It's a lazy mind that attacks another's opinion, because it somehow adversely affects their own sense of self (we get it, your smarter). And did I smell another telltale sign of insecurity coming from your post bacci? What was up with all that "oh, you may have advanced degrees and good jobs" business about huh? Is someone compensating for his (or her) own insecurities tonight? I'm headed to bed. Flame on if you'd like.
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I've been looking at a lot of discusion on the HBO boards, digg, and a few other places, and NO ONE else has claimed to see anything else, except for East Coasters who saw meadow as the last shot before the cut to black.
With millions of viewers, SOMEONE else would have posted in other forums if there were other endings besides the two.
Unless I'm wrong and people just arent talking because they thought everyone saw the same thing.
Has ANYONE else seen a different ending shot, besides the one with tony and the alternate one showing meadow walking into the diner? -
Can't I be both? (the answer is Yes!)
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you see when Tony looked towards the door he
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The entire series has been from the perspective or 'eyes' of Tony Soprano. To me, it doesnt matter if the last scene was meadow entering the restaurant or Tony looking up at Meadow. It still ends with an abrupt silence and then the credits roll in silence. Theres a reason why there wasnt a soft fade with music playing like the usual. Tony was shot..probably in the head and it happened fast as fast as Bobby previously discussed it. One minute you're alive and then it's over.
I thought that Chase opted to do these last episodes instead of a movie. Maybe I heard wrong. -
To me the last scene makes a big difference. Last shot at meadow, could very well be the last thing he sees, just like bobby discussed.
The show ending with the scene showing tony, ends like many of the episodes have in the past... just another day for Tony Soprano. He is still paranoid, he still has to deal with those legal issues, and everything else. This episode was very much like any ordinary episode. It could have been put in the middle of any season and we wouldn't think twice (characters aside, of course).
It cutting with meadow, changes the the entire feel of the last scene for me. That is why I am really interested in getting some info on why this was done. -
Jimmy Spadola the actor who played the man who walked to the bathroom. Unless he was in a former episode of the sopranos uncredited, he is not phils cousin.
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But that doesn't make it true. That's why it ended the way it did. But T, Paulie, Sil, Uncle June, Carm, AJ, Janice, and Meadow are all presumably still alive... setting itself for a feature film someday. The Sopranos isn't really over. It just faded away. Again, until an intevitable movie.
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was that I thought for sure this episode would have revealed that Paulie Walnuts, was in fact, Jesus Christ.
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The characters in the restuarant seem to be from the show, but not...Very strange. There's the guy who looks like the gambling addict/sports store guy....the dad and kids who look like the hobby store witnesses...melfi and her psychologist seem to walk by...the black guys who look like the ones who tried to take Tony out years ago...a phil leotardo has his back to us...abd, then there's that mystery man who comes in. I read that he was just a local actor who got that part...could he be from that early season 6 episode, uncredited. Wishful thinking maybe, because that would be beyond aweome. He was also in a Members Only Jacket...the name of the first episode in season 6. Damn. Now I'm just getting too fucking tired.
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You were right man. You have my respect. But, as the episode progressed, I was thinking "fuck, that internet prick was right -- ah well, at least I can look forward to that suspense-filled ending where surely something will happen after the point where the internet prick's tape cut off". And then? Nothing! Wow, Chase, you fucked me, and you didn't even use the coco butter lotion that I like (it smells good). My cousin, who's not even a Sopranos fan, said they should have at least shown the barrel of a gun come in off-screen in that last frame with Tony. Now THAT would have been a brilliant fucking ending -- don't even show the hand holding it, don't even let us hear the shot, just show the barrel, then roll credits. That would have been a powerful fucking end. I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping the rumors of a motion picture are true. After that, there definitely has to be one. As for buying the last season when it comes out on DVD? Fuck it, illegal downloading here I come.
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My two cents: I don't fucking know. Obvious throw back to THE GODFATHER; AJ saying "Mmmm, onion rings" then Tony saying "Best in the city, if you ask me." In the movie the police guy asks "What's good here?" and the guy goes "Try the veal. Best in the city." And of course Pacino goes into the bathroom to get the gun. Also, Chase made A LOT of reference to music in this episode (and the series); The infamous last shot of Tony shows him looking through the songs again before looking up. If Tony does get whacked, then Chase should go public and admit it. He shouldn't be a dick and shrug his shoulders saying "I dunno, maybe (snicker, snicker)"
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We knew it was going to end, but we still didn't see it coming.
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at the paranostra!"
That was great. I have no idea what it means but Paulie always gets the best lines. What exactly was he saying anyhow? -
and all the people behind the camera.
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Just curious as to what everyone makes of this. When Tony walks into the diner, he surveys the surroundings. Clearly visible to Tony is Tony sitting at the booth, by himself. Wha-ha-huh? Is it an evil doppleganger? Is it BOB? What the heck is going on here?
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with the ending were people who didn't watch every episode of the show. While I love both shows, "The Sopranos" isn't "The Shield" because Tony is actually a better father than Vic Mackey ever will be. "The Shield" is an action series with dramatic undertones, and "The Sopranos" is a dramatic series with action undertones. As far as the finale is concerned, Phil Leotardo got whacked, solving Tony's problems for now, but his problems will never be over. Every Italian-looking man that comes into a resturant or goes into a bathroom, hell, even every black guy, could be the one who pulls a gun and murders him or his whole entire family - and he deserves it for chosing the life that he did. Anyone waiting for Tony to get shot or go to jail needs to realize that both of those things happened and Tony survived. If Chase were to have used either again, it would have been pretty fucking repetitive. Both 'parts' of the final season began with the two endings that most people thought were going to finish Tony off in the end, but when we see that he comes out on top, Chase also shows us the gravity that this implies. I'm not a snob, I am not one of those guys who is trying to be different -- I'm just a man who loves the show, understood what was going on in the final scene, and digs what David Chase did with the show. If you felt the finale lacked violence, I am sure you will get that from "The Shield," and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Palatable paranoia. You could feel like Tony does for a second. Lam-o AJ, being twisted to whichever way the wind blows, and just being an immature kid all his life. "Dr" Meadow, too stupid to park a car. Carm, ignoring reality. Tony checking out everyone. No progress. New surrounding characters to replace the old ones. Crazy Paulie and the cat. As real as it gets for TV. It's the ultimate Talk About It ending ever.
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Those that insist the dream he had is the inspiration for the fade will love this. The song before Journey was Little Feat, "All that you dream". I still think Chase left it open to interpretation, but it looks like he was definitely jacking peoples perceptions.
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Tony sees himself at the booth, and the close-up of Tony looking up from the table jukebox as Carm comes in is almost exactly the same as the final shot. Could be interpreted as him sort of reliving that perpetual hell and tension we felt over that last scene for the rest of his life. There's a Neil Gaiman story in Fragile Things about a guy and a demon in hell that has a similar theme.
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I loved the Tony character and was dreading his death so I am relieved its left to our imagination.I know I would have hated seeing Tony getting wacked , I would have HATED such an episode.
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what the fuck is this shot of meadow talk? it wasnt there, you didnt see it, period
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Is right. I don't think that anyone expected a show that broke all conventions to have a conventional ending. This was never a show that ended everything pat wrapped in a bow. If you want something that ends neat and tidy, is uggest Dr. Suess, or watching next years "The Next Pussycat Doll."
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I'm east coast too, just south of Charlotte. The last shot I saw was a closeup of Meadow with a look that was not quite horror but what I would describe as confused dismay. After my father and I kind of chewed over the abrupt ending for a few minutes, I brought up the now heavily discussed theory that the abrupt ending was Tony's unheard, unfelt death shot. We, of course, recorded the show on our Time Warner DVR box and watched it live but when I went back to show him the shot of Meadow in question, I got the last shot of Tony looking up. I know how that would sound to me if I was reading it on here, but it's all I have to offer. I have no clue how they could arrange for a single, quick shot like that to be plucked from between the shot of Tony and the blackness before the credits but I know that I distinctly saw Meadow not quite look into the camera but just above and to my left with that worried look in her eye and how strange I thought it was that the whole saga went out with a shot of her face and the feeling of my balls retracting into the sockets from whence they dropped as I thought that the death shot was sure to immediately follow. Instead, the black screen that (though I'm told it makes me a Downie retard) horrified me for a few seconds until I realized what had really happened and smiled in disbelief. I think that the Angel finale probably prepped me for it and I had to explain to my parents what we had just seen and the ramifications. My dad has MS and takes quite a few strong medications so I wasn't surprised that he couldn't tell me whether he remembered the show ending on Tony or Meadow, but when my mom woke up this morning, I asked her and she remembered seeing Meadow as well. I'm not trying to mislead you, but I haven't really seen a detailed description of this yet and I wanted to provide one for anyone who's curious or skeptical, though I imagine the skepticism will remain for most until they are able to see some sort of proof for themselves. I hope you guys get it soon.
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At first I was like WTF????????? But I watched it a couple of more times, and I now think it is brilliant!
Think about it, if Tony flips, everyone complains cause he wouldn't do that. If Tony has a trial, it is anti-climatic. If Tony is shot, everyone sees it coming.
TONY WAS SHOT AND KILLED!!!!! That is why the screen goes black, he never saw it coming, and that is life in the mob, remember what Ray Liotta said in Goodfellas, "If it weren't the cops, I never would have heard them."
Chase was able to kill his main character without showing, and that is a good thing. Would any of us here be happy to always have that image of Tony with his face down lying in blood, we love this guy, but he got his and deserved it.
Come on guys, what are going to think of everytime that Journey song comes on! -
Chase' ability to create palpable tension in the final scene was pretty brilliant ... and when it fades to black, you realize that, as Livia says, it's all a big nothing. That's just a day in the life of Tony. Any second, he could get whacked, his family could get whacked, he could get arrested. Who knows ? And at the end of the day, the best Tony can hope for is to be Uncle June, sitting in a home staring out a window, having no memory of how he was the "boss of all North Jersey". Pretty interesting, but definately a let down to have everything end so "nicely" after last week's brilliant episode. I like my final episode idea better: A secret government experiment being conducted in an FBI lab breaks free and reanimates the corpses of everyone Tony whacked, and an army of undead Dagos led by Chrissy and his corpse-bride Adriana return to wrecky havock on North Jersey.
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are you suggesting that the abrupt ending, uber-tense mood, and the dropping of some subtle hints somehow signified the termination of the life of one Anthony Soprano? (read a la Ben/Glory as explained by Spike and to the amazement of those vulnerable to Glory's spell thingie)
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The actor in the last scene is actually a local pizza shop owner. In an interview with a news paper he claims that there was more to the scence than Chase showed us. He would not say what, exactly, it was. But did mention a possible film. http://www.phillyburbs.com/ is not yet updated but should be soon.
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People who half paid attention to the show,or watched it as a some macho killing spree...they didn't get it. Howard Stern gave it a B+, Artie gave it a B, and both of them got what chase is doing concerning the paranoia. But people who hated it didn't get the nuances which the last scene played on! This ending will be debated forever!
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I thought I was imagining Tony seeing himself in the diner as he walked in. I guess I wasn't the only one who saw this.
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im not sure what to say about the ending. right now (just finished watching it), i think its crap. i think what happened is that the last thing he sees is Meadow. maybe Meadow was lucky to be late or she likely would have died, conversely, if she had been on time the guy might not have killed him. also, AJ makes the little speech saying "enjoy it" or whatever. it just kinda sucks leaving it this way, but it might have sucked worse watching Tony die. at any rate, i think Tony as we knew him is done, either dead or in prison. who would have ever thought Paulie would be the last one standing?
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When over half your audience is torn out of the moment by thinking "Who sat on the remote?!?!" you have failed.
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Sorry if my post was overly harsh, it was either the inherent rivalry because of the two letter, three number name thing we both have got going on or maybe I was too drunk to be posting. I hear what you're saying about pop culture references dating a show though. It's a fine line to walk and time'll tell if this episode holds up like, for say, the MASH finale. For the record, I felt a little cheated by the ending. For the past 10 years, I've always felt that Tony had to be punished. He was too evil to let go scot free. To not actually see it left me a little empty. At least the Journey song rocked.
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nothing about Tony Soprano's future. Speculate all you want but you have no idea what happened after the screen went blank.
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and dont disagree with the life goes on ending, but agree it was badly done.
And this show didnt always leave things open ended, thats something that started in S4. -
antilifeequator- You are right the same thing happened to me.
Unlike you who were with your mom and dad, I had 12 people with me that saw her :)
My friends in the area saw the same thing. My friend in LA just saw the tony shot.
TheUltraHumanite- Go to digg's first comments or HBO's and look at the tony death discussion. It was all based on the fact that it was HIS vision looking at HER, not that it shows HIM looking at HER direction.
It is the reason I brought it up here, because when you saw it (because of the different scene) affects your perception of what happened to tony.
Does anyone have a DVR copy with meadow in it as the last scene or a screenshot? -
The ending doesnt work for me and neither does the Tony dead scenario since we all know a movie has been discussed.
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Rubbing it in my face that I had to watch the finale with mom and disabled pop instead of surrounded by peers, eh? Lucky bastard. But, I'll have you know our five cats were in and out of the room throughout the entire episode as well. I'm glad you could corroborate my account and the other lucky East coasters. I'll eventually live down my finale family shame. We are Italian and have always watched together, and some of the stuff hits home, in good and bad ways. Oh, and they let me smoke dope in the house. Any of you technically inclined guys care to speculate on how our DVR playback could have given us the West Coast/selective East Coast Meadow dismay variant shot?
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care to speculate on how our DVR playback could have OMITTED the blah blah blah
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I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call the ending a cheap storytelling gag. It may be ill-conceived, poorly written and unsatisfying but that doesn't make it a gag. It was a valid choice that people disagree with. But, hey, that's art for you.
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I have Direct Tv and I watched the East Coast showing and the West Coast showing, it is the same, Meadow about to enter the restaurant and then close up on Tony looking up as he heard the door open and then cut to black.
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I think it is one of the best endings, you can project what happened, I like open endings My take on it is that he did not die but he will be indicted and go to jail. Meadow will probably help defend him in court. AJ will still be AJ but will be in a different path than Tony, both children will break from the past, they will have their own lives separate from the mob.
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Exactly the same except Tony is 100% Italian, is a made guy, doesn't sell coke, doesn't turn state's evidence, doesn't marry into a Jewish family and doesn't cook pasta with Paul Sorvino. Other than that , yeah, they're exactly the same.
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Jun 11, 2007 7:56:01 AM CDT
It wasn't a movie. It easn't a novel. It wasn't even
by thunderbolt ross
a story. So why do people insist it should end like any of those things? It is a TV show, episodic in structure, and lacking anything resembling the rising and falling action, or any of the structure usually attributed to those other types of narrative. I mean over the course of the entire series, not throughout arcs or even seasons. So it makes no sense to expect an ending that fits with those type of narratives when it's a completely different animal.
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Although I am sad to see it end I think the time was right. Well done.
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The reason The Cat was staring at the picture of Chris was becasue Chris was a RAT. And if you remember earlier in the episode, Tony mentioned how the cat caught a rat.
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Sopranos creator David Chase could’ve had a monkey eating a banana at the
end of the episode and some folks would write about the ‘brilliance’ behind its
ending.
I prefer to believe that we look at what Tony told Paulie about interpreting the
cat who was fixated on Chrissy’s photo: Don’t read too much into anything.
There are other theories as well:
http://tinyurl.com/ypqtan -
Sopranos creator David Chase could’ve had a monkey eating a banana at the
end of the episode and some folks would write about the ‘brilliance’ behind its
ending.
I prefer to believe that we look at what Tony told Paulie about interpreting the
cat who was fixated on Chrissy’s photo: Don’t read too much into anything.
There are other theories as well:
http://tinyurl.com/ypqtan -
.... but people who shout "cocksucker" and similar things at others in this thread just because they disagree probably proves the (correct) contention that they themselves are too stupid to get the point.
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I've seen like 3 episodes of the sopranos in my life, I don't have HBO, and I didn't even watch the final episode. BUT THAT WAS THE WORST FINALE EVER!!!!!
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I've already said what I thought of the episode, so I'm not going over that. However, I'd be willing to bet that the large majority of people that hated the final episode also hated "Join the Club" episode (that's the Tony's dream episode when he's in a coma). At least initially. That's why I say watch the final episode again. I think most people will have a change of heart. At least a little.
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every scene had tension - except for the phsyciatrist scenes and the Uncle Junior scenes. I kept thinking Janice was going to get popped sniper style while she was out on her deck. Then I thought Paulie was going to get it in the Big when he was all alone. Practically ever moment had death looming around the corner, right up until the very end. Excellent episode.
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in itself tense? Or was it tense strictly due to everyone knew this was the last episode? Take it strictly as a stand alone episode and the intensity lessens significantly.
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the whole point is life goes on.
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sorry excuse for a last episode
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we shouldve seen this coming. I thought the episode was great. I didn't really understand the point of leaving that blank spot at the end, I think he should've just had meadow come in and finished it amd that would've been fine.
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anyone know where to find that video that AJ and rhianna were watching and cracking up at towards the end?
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came from a lot of things for me. The big internet rumor that someone in the immediate titular family was gonna get it, likely a planted rumor designed specifically to get our hackles up in that last five minutes. The well-established cliche of ironic music playing over or leading up to a horrific and/or violent death scene. The show's history of bleak, nigh-nihilistic views peppered with occasional morsels of hope (usually the hope is tied to the very family we're so worried is going to be torn apart by one to four deaths in those last few minutes). The foreshadowing, misleading and otherwise. The smattering of hints everywhere in the last few episodes and this one, so much so at times that the mind boggled. Wait, did they say something about a rat? The cat catches rats! Staring at a picture of Chrissy while playing on Paulie's superstitions (at their fucking creepiest when he was seemingly surrounded by legit ghosts at the psychic's house early on). Heidi and Kennedy = girls with a role in Chris's fatal crash (another scene where you could just feel what was coming and could do nothing to stop it, felt to me like I was in that car taking those turns with them) and the Blue Comet = the train that Bobby was buying when rubbed out. With this episode, those of us who are internet-savvy or pay close attention to the titles of the episodes were looking for a tie-in with the title and a major death tonight. Would A.J.'s American-made (I think, right?) car be the death of him and that smoking little hottie (oh my God, I saw her in her bra!), would his fears of Ameripocalypse materialize with a tie-in with the middle easterners from earlier this season, or the first half of the season, whatever. The guy in the USA hat? Like Chris's accident, the camera work screamed impending death but for the entire episode. Was waiting for A.J.'s new Beemer (correct?, not even mildly a car guy) to explode when he first got in. The tension was certainly the most palpable in the last 5 minutes but I was biting nails for the whole thing. Rife with red herrings and an hour that called on our knowledge of mob movie cliches and past Sopranos episodes to terrify us into thinking every moment could be someone's last. Also worked better if you crumbled and took a little peek at the, with the exception of FrancisBegbie's which I thankfully missed, largely incorrect spoilers online. A mindfuck all the way through and a ride that I loved and hated. Sorry for the ramble, didn't sleep last night because I was up thinking about the show and letting it sink in. I didn't want to be one of those cats at the proverbial water cooler saying "You know, now that I think about it, the blackness preceding the credits could have been TONY'S BLANK, UNHEARD DEATH!" Perhaps it was to my detriment.
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Babylon 5. Six Feet Under.
This final was strangely appropriate, though! -
no *spoiler warner* required
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no *spoiler warner* required
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Seriously, what was up with that finale, though????? FU HBO!
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As predicted by mjgtexas.... hey mjgtexas it's Credibility on line 2, just calling to let ya know Shut yer yap and stop flapping yer gums. Nice fake out.
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I happen not be part of the elite, I'm in fly over country, yes the everyday guy. I looked forward to the last season for a log time just to be disappointed by half of the shows. Why did I expect any thing more out of the final episode? It sucked! WHY
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/10/sopranos.finale.ap/index.html
"The finale displayed their lives continuing, for better and worse, unaffected by the fact that the series is done. The implication was, they will go on as usual. We just won't be able to watch." -
A grasp of the language sometimes will help you enjoy a show in which dialogue is spoken. And if you were looking forward to the last season for a "log time", how could you be disappointed? Did you even SEE the Vito Jr. shower scene?
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Jun 11, 2007 9:00:34 AM CDT
Most people saw the whole thing all the way through....
by chickengeorgevii
In the very end...Tony went to The Coast of Utopia and then they waved goodbye and everybody went home.....And thus, did something happen on pay cable? - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!
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The going to black is to further the tension by implying MAYBE someone other than Meadow enters the restaurant. Could be anyone. Personally, I thought the ep was a let down and agree with whomever said they should have just had meadow come in and end it with them eating together. Cliffhangers are one thing but literally ending with nothing is gong to piss off almost everybody.
HOwever, MSNBC this morning was talking to some Sopranos expert/critic. He said some interesting things regarding the closing credits. He claims that all the people who came into the restaurant were characters would could potentially kill Tony but you don't realize it unless you watch the credits. ONe was Phil Leotardo's brother. One was somebody who ripped one of the Sopranos off in the past. I think he even said the two black dudes tried to kill tony in the early seasons. He also pointed out that Tony's father died while being gunned down in a restaurant. -
an all time classic if Members-Only guy walked into the shitter at the ice cream place and takes-a-shit-guy was in a stall heaving and asked him to pass some tp because he was late for a flight to Sydney.
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A) The guy who came in after AJ and sat at the counter was eyeballing him several times. Could have gone to the bathroom so he could sneak up on him from a better angle.
B) With the way Phil was whacked in front of his whole family, New York would have only been appeased if they were allowed to return the favor.
C) With Tony facing certain indictment, Jersey wouldn't have felt too bad about allowing him to go.
D) The look on Paulie's face toward the end of the episode. He knew something was up. He might even have made a deal with NY to allow Tony to get bumped.
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Why are you so self-righteous and arrogant? Just because people wanted closure, doesn't make them less intelligent and/or need to be spoon fed entertainment. Personally, I didn't hate the end and wasn't even expecting things to be tied up in a neat little package. I didn't hate the ending, but I didn't love it either. For the record, I thought reveiling Laura Palmer's killer killed Twin Peaks. I could have waited another five seasons to find out who killed her if they kept the writing strong. I also never had a problem with the pace Lost reveiled their secrets prior to their fast pace revelations of the second half of last season. My point that just because someone doesn't find the last season of the Sopranos profound that they are of lesser intelligence or need to be spoon fed. I think people are making the last scene more profound. We all get it. You find the last episode brilliant. I've got news for you though. That doesn't make you intellictually superior to people who didn't like it. If you really think it does, that speaks volumes of your actual intelligence.
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that's just an opinion. in fact i think i most people would agree that Meadow does enter the restaurant, but who really knows? and i don't think going to the back was to further the tension. i more agree with the article i posted above.
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he was clutch
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Vito and Johnny Cakes spooning in bed naked, the whole final season nothing but a poist-coital dream in Vito's head.
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I know everything online has to be taken with a coarse grain of salt, but what some of us were discussing earlier about the last shot being of Meadow entering the diner and not Tony looking up is wholly legit. I have no explanation for why it seemingly only made it to a select portion of the east coast or why even my DVR omitted that quick shot but I feel pretty confident that something with as big of an impact on the ambiguous ending as this will have some light shed on it by the end of the day, some kind of confirmation or screencap. I know no one uses fucking VHS anymore, but damned if I don't wish I had. There go my 15 minutes.
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Has there ever been a show that's ended on a completely satisfying note? Seems like everything ends on a wild downturn in quality, a poorly written closing episode, a clip show or basically just an ass-stupid decision (like... not actually showing what happens).
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Right before Meadow opens the door, my cable went black for 3 seconds. People say that the last shot was tony, my last shot was on Meadow. Was this in the show or did my cable black out ??
Either way it still sucked. -
i know that video can be found in youtube by searching 'rove rap', i've seen a full-length of just karl rove making even me feel embarrassed and causing me to cringe while alone in my own living room but i also saw one spliced with bush reaching deep down and grasping a firm hold on his african roots.
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we discussed this above a little bit if you want to read it in detail, but the crux is that some of us on the east coast apparently and inexplicably got an ominous closeup of meadow with her eyes in full view and sporting a look of worry as she looks toward her family for our final shot, seemingly followed by the shot of tony glancing up that everyone else got. furthermore, this east coast extra pulled a mr. terrific and refused to let itself be recorded by any kind of dvr or ondemand service. i'm not fucking fucking you. real deal.
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i meant seemingly FOLLOWING the shot of tony glancing up. seriously, haven't slept in 28 hours and i'm not tired yet, but i have developed an extra chromosome.
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onion rings
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....and it's even better the second time. I'm going to miss this show. Fucking brilliant.
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"I get to live the rest of my life as a schlub".
I'm still mulling it, which means it couldn't have been that bad. I'm also sort of liking the idea that the blackout was tony having another panic attack.
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Why was there no gunshot before the abrupt cut to black. This ending is far from definitive. Chase left it open to take it any damn which way he wants. Even if there was a gunshot, Chase could define it later in any way. The scene was never shown from Tony's POV, from what I remember. If it had been, then I might buy the Tony was shot thing.
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With Faust's description of a short period of blackout prior to the Meadow shot that myself and others have described, I am starting to wonder if there is more to this. We've established that for some odd reason, it did not record on digital video recorders or similar equipment and is not found in the OnDemand episode. I only saw it once, but I am a hundred percent on it having ended with us getting a good look at Meadow's eyes and her growing look of worry. She doesn't exactly break the fourth wall but it's damn close. I don't remember a short period of blackness prior to that shot but the episode's intended blackout occurred while locked onto her face. I am really starting to feel that some anamoly, planned or otherwise, allowed an undetermined number of viewers, so far only on the east coast, a small glimpse at what may have followed Tony's glance up at his daughter in the alternate filmed endings. I'm not a technical guy, so I couldn't even begin to guess at how or why this happened or what made it impervious to DVR, but I'm anxious to see what develops.
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Has anyone noticed the Made In America episode recap has changed on HB O.COM? An hour ago the final line read like this:
"Meadow arrived just in time for..."
It now reads:
"Meadow arrives just in time for dinner."
No kidding. HBO is screwin with viewers.
As I mentioned earlier, last night when I was watching the broadcast the last shot before the blackout was of Meadow walking tward the table.
When I rewatched it (on DVR), the final shot was a close-up of Tony".
SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHT!
WHAT DID YOU SEE AS THE LAST SHOT BEFORE BLACK?
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since it has been very clear to anyone who reads any boards on the subject that the WHOLE EFFING WORLD wanted Tony and the Family Soprano to be killed, wouldn't doing that kind of crowd pleaser ending be kind of like writing a movie based on focus group results? The kind of script by demo research approach that drives most of us fraking nuts?
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I think HBO is fucking us. Hard. Let the conspiracy theories begin. Was the abrupt ending not the brilliant case of open-ended blueballs half of us thought it was and the hack job the other half thought and instead a legitimate fucking corruption of HBO's broadcast due to record numbers, upped by unexpected droves of viewers renting hotel rooms just to watch, etc.?! Were we intentionally given small pieces of the puzzle to create conflicts amongst viewers over what they saw, possibly bringing about the onset of Civil War II? Probably neither of those but something is fucking fishy.
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All I know is that last night about 8 million viewers all said the same thing at about the same time in a show.."WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?" Now how long till the Sopranos movie?
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First off --despite my earlier posts-- I'm not a huge Chase fan or a rabid fan that thinks the show has no faults.... however.... No one has mentioned that Tony is a VERY public figure in NJ. On top of that, all the recent mob activity (the killings) would be all over the news. If I lived in NJ, walked into my favorite dinner and saw Tony-fucking-Soprano sitting there, I'd have my eye on him too. Just saying it's a possibility, which is how I think it was meant to be, to keep us wondering.
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We just passed the 3000th post mark over on the Lost TB. Ave it!
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Don't Stop Believin'....Is it really that simple?
by Thom and Brent Meyer
There I was pushing my vintage (read junker) VW Karman Ghia once again. The reason for it's engine failure escapes me, but they were many and varied. I
do know the electrical system was still working because the cassette deck
was providing my inspiration as I struggled to steer and power the car
forward. Struggling as I came to the last turn toward home I was reenergized by one of my favorite songs, just what I needed for that extra umph. The hollow sounds of the cheap speakers played out "Don't Stop, Believin', hold onto that feelin'...". Other than the burn in my calves there was not much of a feeling to hold onto, but the song pumped me up. I guess I focused on the title words, and never really hear what surrounded them. I could sing the song, beginning to end. I could pick it up in the distance no matter what other white noise might try to hide it. The song, and the sound, were in tune to my ears, and the album was becoming a part of my life.
It was not until many years later that I really listened to the song, and it wasn't even my idea. Heck, I had listened to it, and I had heard it, and I had sang along...there was nothing new to be discovered, nothing to be learned. Boy, was I wrong. At the insistence of my younger brother I had a listen, a real, close, and true listen to the song. You see, unbeknownst to me, as I was in my room playing Escape on my stereo I was cultivating another Journey fan just one room away. My younger brother, 10 years my junior, didn't have a stereo, so he had no choice but to listen to what I listened to, albeit through the wall we shared. I was 16, and he was 6, but the following albums would solidify him as a fan as enthusiastic as myself. Respecting his opinion, I listened. Let me recap a few of the lyrics for you.
Just a small town Girl, livin' in a lonely world
She tool the midnight train goin' anywhere
Ok, not too bad. Sounds like a lonely soul looking for a home. She could be lost, she could be almost anything. What she does not seem to be is happy or content. So the song goes on:
Just a city boy, born and raised in south Detroit
He took the midnight train goin' anywhere
This gives us even less to go on. "A city boy", but no mention as to whether his world is lonely or not. Still harmless really, though he is taking a late train to an unknown destination and seemingly without purpose. So the song continues by changing venues from the "Midnight Train" to a "Smoke Room" and presumably unites our "small town girl" and our "city boy".
A singer in a smoky room
The smell of wine and cheap perfume
For a smile they can share the night
It goes on and on and on and on
Well, it seems our two potential love interests did not end up in the classiest of places, but they do seem to have found each other. Here is where you might have to read into things a bit more. If they can "share the night" for just a smile, their lives must be pretty hollow. Sure, casual sex can occur, but this seems to imply a little more. She is lonely, they were both headed nowhere, and in an instant they can use each other to try to escape their pain. The redeeming fact is that there was no mention of money so I guess she was not a prostitute and his name not "John".
Next chimes in the happy chorus, and the introduction of the thought that
this is not about just these two people. Rather they are just a
representation of a larger set of similar people, no happier I might add:
Strangers waiting up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching in the night
Talk about a strong statement about lost souls! "Shadows searching the night"? That is powerful, profound, and scary. I have wanted to do a lot of things in life, but I never recall having my "Shadow search the night" being one of them. But wait there is more, these people are going to get a name, and a purpose:
Streetlights, people, livin' just to find emotion
Hiding, somewhere in the night
Now when I hear "Streetlights, people" I think of three things. One, people walking the streets from intersection to intersection without purpose or direction. Two, I think about the monotony of a street light; red, green, yellow, red, green, yellow, red, green, yellow. Three, I think of a hooker standing on a corner waiting for someone to come along and give them something, anything, just to fill a void (Maybe an emotional one). Bring it all together and you have meandering people walking the streets in a monotonous world Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and on and on and on and on. All without emotion, and all the while searching for it. Now here are some happy folk! The next line, "Hiding somewhere in the night", makes me wonder if they were really hiding or just hoping to be lost and forgotten. In either case, this is not the picture you see on a postcard, but it is life...it is reality for some unfortunate people. Their choice or not, you and I would certainly not want to trade our lives for theirs, nor would we envy their darkness. As the song continues we have the brief
introduction of another character:
Working hard to get my fill,
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin' anything to roll the dice,
Just one more time
If you take these lines literally, they seem to talk of a chronic gambler. When I attempt to interpret them, I find they can be a gambler who is perpetually down on his/her luck, or even possibly a drug addict or alcoholic looking for the next high without regard for price. This could also be a person who feels that the dice hold enough luck and they need that "one more" roll. There is always the feeling when gambling (if losing big or addicted) that if you could just have one more roll it can change everything. It is a very scary thought to be living game to game, or fix to fix, or being in the power of anything that eclipses life and controls you, as this seems to imply. Again, not something we would aspire to have, but something that is very real and surrounds us. That is if we are lucky enough to have it surround us on the periphery and not directly infiltrate our lives or the lives of a loved one. While not a lot of hope has been shown so far in the song, the next few lines seem to paint the picture of
hopelessness a little clearer, possibly saying that these people are simply fulfilling their destiny:
Some will win, some will lose
Some are born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on
Actually here is the first line that gives some hope to this bunch, "Some will win", however, how long will that last? I am assuming that this is to mean that the loneliness, monotony, and/or addictions for at least some of these people is only temporary. Eventually, some of them will find what they are searching for and/or be saved from what plagues them. And, as we knew all along, "some will lose" and never know anything more than they are experiencing now. Sad. To think ones destiny is to merely "sing the blues" is a terrible terrible thought. The only thing to make it worse is to say that their epic goes "on and on and on and on". Take something unhappy and unpleasant and then say that it will go on forever. Isn't that the description of hell?
At this point we have heard all there is to hear. We have been introduced to all the players, and have had a glimpse at their never-ending stories. And we realize that none of it is really positive or good. Next there is a recap of the "Strangers waiting up and down the boulevard" and the "Streetlight people", and then finally comes the mantra:
Don't Stop Believin'
Hold on to that feelin'
Streetlight people
Oooooh ooooo ooooo oooooh
Don't Stop Believin'
Hold on
Street light people
Oooooh ooooo ooooo oooooh
Don't Stop Believin'
Hold on to that feelin'
Street light people
Could this be what they are thinking? Don't let go of that dream because that is the only thing sustaining them? Heck, I would think that the notion of a dream would have long passed. However, this is the only part of the song that I drew my inspiration from. "Don't Stop Believin'" is a directive. There is no question as to what to do here, it is simple, just "Don't Stop Believin'". However, we have been through some tough situations. We have been frankly told of their misery, their monotony, how lost they are, and even that some are in the throws of addition. Worse yet, we were told how some are simply fulfilling their destiny, and truly have no hope. Yet, in this midst of all this misery and darkness from almost nowhere comes the directive to keep going, and to have hope. What baffles me is the thought that the directive seems to mandate that they "Hold onto that feelin'". From what I can see, there is no feeling worth holding onto, nothing worth embracing. Unless for those few who "Win", and certainly not for the many who "Lose", that "Feeling" is their misery and they are not to forget it as to make their new found success and happiness that much better. I guess I would rather believe that they are to remember who they were, and that others are there as well and it is the others that should not be forgotten as society might so often do.
Inspirational? Not literally. However, I must say that to this day I still hear the song and it makes me drive a little faster, smile a little bigger, and sing a little louder. I would like to be able to say it is because I find myself in a much happier place than the song seems to live, in that way it could truly be an inspiration. However, I don't think I am that complex. It is simple, the song got me and my ailing Karman Ghia home that day, and many others as well. The song took me through a break up with a for the moment High School Crush, and was still in my mind and heart when I met my now wife. The song is my friend and provided hope and inspiration time and time again, all before I ever even "listened" to it. If you miss Journey and can't wait for Arrival, go back and really listen. There are some old songs out there that you may not have ever really discovered. One might even be your favorite!
I didnt write this I found it in my eternal struggle trying to decide what I think of the final episode - one side of me thinks its genius - the other side is raging that there is no closure after 8 years with the greatest programme ever to grace our screens.
The more I think of it, the more I think it had to be that way - it would have been clichéd and hollow to go down other routes - Paulie ialways loved Tony never thought for a minute he would turn. After Phil is whacked what tangible enemies dies Tony have? None. It would have been a bit stupid if the russian had turned up and whacked him. Nope as hollow as the ending was, I accept it was the way it had to go down...........I cant see where a film would take the chracters, he has inditmenst hanging over him, no enemies, most of teh crew are whacked or dead, junior has completely lost it............nope I think that is the last time we shall see Mr Soprano grace our screens. RIP thanks for an amazing ride!!! -
Was meant to throw us off. I don't think it's a coincidence that Members Only's character was playing out exactly like Michael Coreleone. Everyone was thinking the same thing, "I've seen this before...Oh he's going into the bathroom, Tony's a goner." No he was simply was there to put you in Tony's world of hysteria.
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Was meant to throw us off. I don't think it's a coincidence that Members Only's character was playing out exactly like Michael Coreleone. Everyone was thinking the same thing, "I've seen this before...Oh he's going into the bathroom, Tony's a goner." No he was simply was there to put you in Tony's world of hysteria.
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..are you guys/gals in here really that stupid? The ending was obvious. Tony gets whacked. Bobby said earlier in the series that things just go black when you die. Also, the killer was waiting to for the whole family to get there to kill Tony. He wanted the whole family to see it to avenge Phil's death. When it fades to black, we are seeing things as Tony would see them since every episode is essentially through his eyes.
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When tony told Paulie he'd call him back "on a prepaid," I had a feeling that he'd come out on top. The fact that he learned to use "burners" speaks to his adaptabilit; I wonder if he watches the Wire? Phil clearly doesn't, or he'd know that Pay Phones are a death/indictment trap.
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that was completely uncalled for.
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I was really hoping he would tell his family to fuck off. But in the end he just sold out to his parents again. What a little bitch he is.
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The greatest? Please. It's entertaining and well acted and written. And I didn't really have a problem with the ending. I jsut find the show gratuitous. It's violence for violence sake. Just the fact that people and probably even actual mobsters love this show and identify with the lunatic sociopath characters scares the shit out of me.
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We are that fucking stupid. Thank you for enlightening us. Continue interpreting the ending for those too braindead to comprehend in whatever venues a late-to-the-dance jackoff like yourself can reach, then go fucking kill yourself.
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I dont think it is that obvious downtheriver - the ending is ambiguous - Bobby says things go black when you die did he??? fcuk me give the man a pulitzer prize - what fcuking colour do you think it goes when someone puts a bullet through your skull, rainbow coloured!!??
Nope I am not having that, dont think he was killed at all - I think it is open to interpretation - you are right everything is seen through his eyes. Chase used this neat little trick to turn us all into gibbering paranoid wrecks - i had tears welling up in my eyes, I thought it was going to be a family bloodbath - the feeling of dread and doom was awful after 8 years on screen with this family.
Chase used our emotional investment to pull us all in and butt fcuk us. But in the cold light of day, as clever as it was for those 5 long minutes, the aftermath is there are a mixture of happy and very very irrate and dissapointed fans that feel cheated and hurt at no resolution. Stories are all about resolution and closure - simple as.
EVERY story should have a resolution, what would you think if Star Wars finished with Skywalker firing a rocket down the death star hatch?? Or Lord of the rings with Frodo at the mouth of mount doom ring in hand??
The fact is after completing such a long journey with these chracters, we all deserved resolution and closure, not ambiguity. Chase is clever but not a genius, when you look at it through cold eyes it was a cheap trick that any of us could have thought up. Chase knows the viewer is heavily invested in the chracters, he knows its last ever episode, he knows everyone is expecting something major, so its not exactly rocket science to get a couple of shifty looking chracters to walk in the restaurant and make us think he is gonna get whacked.
Yes it was probably the most emotional 5 minutes I have ever experienced on a TV programme, but ultimately it has left me feeling fcuking cheated, robbed, hollow and devastated.
Fcuk it I weould have preferred that guy had got up and just executed them all, walked out picked up a phone and said 'its done' in Russian - at least I would not have this hollow feeling I have now.
Fcuk you David Chase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Phil's Leotardos brother. yes, Tony is dead. the end.
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future help where did you get that idea / info from? Please tell me, that will answer it all, closure I need closure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Chase really separated out the true fans from the people who just tune into see bullet and boobs. I enjoy the cable content myself, but holding back most of the blood spray and concrete plot developments from the final ep and the somewhat ambiguous ending were aimed squarely at alienating the casual fan, imo. If you have watched The Sopranos... really WATCHED it and observed the behavior of the characters for the past seasons then you know exactly what happened after the screen went black. It's not confusing. Ade's dead. The Russian got away. Tony's Mom will live on eternally in his mind and Feech LaManna's card game goes on forever. Fuck the haters. You deserve your frustration for selling this show short and merely expecting greatness. The Sopranos is much better than that.
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"You can give 2007 back to the Indians". Great line. I will miss Paulie more then the rest. The show always kicked into high gear when he was on. I had the same WTF reaction to the ending. I was watching the clock thinking 2 minutes left and we are watching Meadow Parking badly. When the screen went black I was waiting for the writing to come up saying, "Just kidding! See you next year". What a waste. That being said, the Sopranos on the whole was great but with alot of boring characters that took up to much screen time from the Boys. I don't care if they do a movie or not, but I would kill to see a Paulie Walnut's spinoff. Picture Paulie in witness protection in some little midwest town. Like "My Blue Heaven" on steroids. He could bring the cat which by the is talking to him. That show would be worth the price of HBO.
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I still think Chase did this ending, leaving it to interpretation, with a strong sniff of Tony getting whacked as the screen turns black, because it would make EVERYONE think. If anything was obvious, Tony gets killed, Tony flips, Tony goes to jail, everyone would be saying they expected that. This ending shook the world, and I hated it at first, but the more and more I think about it, and watch it, I think it was the only way to go.
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Getting sick of reading posts like yours, I am not a 'casual' fan I have watched every season numerous times - I am Sopranos fan, I dont watch it for hits and tits, I watch it for the fcukin drama pal. After 8 years of emotional investment you expect closure, not ambiguity - simple as.
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That is not his brother you prick............
Billy Leotardo
Played by: Chris Caldovino
Appears in: "Where's Johnny", "All Happy Families...", "In Camelot", "Unidentified Black Males", "Cold Cuts", "The Test Dream", "All Due Respect"
Soldier in Phil's crew, Phil's younger brother and partner in crime. Billy killed Lorraine Calluzzo and Jason Evanina with his friend Joe Peeps. Joe was killed soon after and Billy took part in the response - a hit on Angelo Garepe. Finally, Billy himself was killed by Tony Blundetto in revenge for the death of his friend Angelo, causing lasting distress to his brother, who was wounded in the same assault.
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iam listening to the morning radio show here in South Florida...and the DJ's are tearing it apart. (some love, some hate) well, they have it on tape and they are reporting what they see in the credits. the actor who plays Silvio has called in for an interview...he told them that a large answer lies within the credits. they checked and reported. over.
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"Somebody get a dictionary and find out what this 'closure' is"
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Wasnt paying attention to the use of the Journey song.
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and starring Robert Deniro as VGERio
The La Cosa Nostra Adventure is just beginning -
is dead so was that a ghost sat on the chair that whacked him?
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..there was resolution.......like the other posters said, the man going into the bathroom was Phil's brother.......stop being ignorant and see the truth. Unfortunately, The series wasn't created to pander to idiots like you but unfortunately, some people have to be spoon-feed everything. Tony was killed.........period
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Cry babies.
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..it means the majority of people in this world are idiots and like the rest of their life, cannot figure things out using their own brain.
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to the theory he was whacked - the song infers he carries on down the road.........ambiguity!!!!!!!!
That is not Phils fcuking brother, his brother is dead!!!!!! He died before Phil for fucks sakes!! -
.the viewer is deserving of nothing, he mearly takes in what the writer decides to produce. Neat endings are the writing of amateurs. and Star Wars WOULD have ended with the Death Star explosion if it hadn't made any money.
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I just re-watched the last few seconds of the version that ends on Tony (as opposed to this other Meadow version a few people have mentioned)
Here is the link...
http://www.dailymotion.com/mohymir/video/3749405
If the sudden cut to black does in fact signify Tony's death, then I would have thought the music would cut out too. It doesn't...it carries on for a few seconds on the black screen.
The annoying thing is, that link cuts out mid-credits and someone said earlier that Steve Van Zandt said a big clue is in the credits. I wanna see them! -
is utter bullshit - that wasn't art it was a cheap gimmick - and having watched the episode for a second time I can assure you that it has no ikmpact. Like I said yes was prob most emotional 5 mins have had in tv history but whats the point when it essentially leaves you hollow!
I dont think it is 'artistic' - it is Chase leaveing the door open as HBO execs have told him to in case the sniff more $ to be creamed from us.
The movie would be utter shite anyway!!!!!!!!!!!! -
Mass hysteria, I believe it's called. I watched it live on DirecTV's east feed. I also DVR'd it from cable on a home-made DVR under myth TV. There's no way HBO could "magically alter" the DVR recording to change the ending, and oh by the way, they can't do it to your cable or satellite DVRs, either.Your mind/imagination/whatever added that bit. Give it up.
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WAAA!I'm never watching HBO again!What a bunch of crybabies.Gee,if every show doesn't end the way you want you're going to run out of channels to watch.Props to Chase & co. for letting us use our imagination,and a big FUCK YOU to those with those with none to use.You deserve the discomfort.
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when the music fade to black cuts in
Neat endings are not the making of amateurs - go look at the AFI top 100 movies in history and get back to me with the number of them that have zero closure on a story. Now tell me something else, are all teh writers of the top 100 movies in history? Or are you telling me that being 'artistic' and ambiguous counts as genuis. It is not even clever is it when you think about it? Like I said Chase had millions of fans that have spent 8 years glued to these chracters - not really hard to tweak a few emotions is it. I feel like someone that has had a sick prank played on them. Chase must be laughing his tits off in his hiding place in France!!!
I said it before and I will say it again - thanks for 8 years of TV heaven Chase and for the final hour - fcuk you and your cheap, obvious publicity stunt!!
If Chase was truly clever he would have come up with a 'shocking' ending that no one could ever think up - instead of a cheap gag playing on our emotional investment in the chracters.
Das Boot now that is how you end a film!!!!!
Personally speaking if the anser is in the credits then I will be a very happy bunny - I am hoping the song is comically ironic, and that lights out is signifying his death...........
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I'm sorry Francis Begbie
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.......people also claimed to have seen the unedited scenes from Star Wars (Biggs,etc) at the theatres early on but they were never in ANY version of the film.......same deal!
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The man going into the bathroom with the members-only jacket had no ("known") connection to Phil or NY. The actors name is Paolo Colandrea a local NJ Pizza shop owner. He's never been on the show before and has no official connection to anyone else.... that we know of.
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Yes they were. They were in the screener version.
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being a top 100 AFI movie doesn't mean it is a top 100 best WRITTEN piece of all time........if Tony had clearly been shot, you would be crying like a little girl that it was too predictable. When it is not, you cry.........
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That last cene had alot of religous symbolism. The onion rings not only rpresent halos in a sense but all three of them ate the onion ri9ngs by first palcing it on their tongue as if it were takign communion. Dodn't know what it menas but interesting.
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Chech the Sopranos board. Many people say the Meadow ending.
Dont know how they did it
(different ending on my dvr) but they did. It's a fact. Not mass hysteria. -
I liked the ending. STill went WTF!?!? when it happened, but a show or movie's ending that makes me ponder it afterwards is a good ending.
I am on the East Coast and the last shot was of Tony. Meadow was running up to the door, then to Tony looking up as the bell over the door rings, then black.
If the lives of all these characters go on and they learned nothing, its fine with me.
If Tony gets it from behind like Phil, its fine with me.
I'm pleased with the ending. -
The scene at the Raceway station was filmed about a mile from my house. I've been to the Barnes and Noble in the background many times. Anyway I'm not a regular watcher but I did want a little something more at the end. I'm not sure what, but..I guess it keeps you wanting..
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we Americans just don't have what it takes anymore to talk ourselves into thinking something "boring and ambiguous" is "deep and poignant." Chase is brilliant. he got us to complain only about the ending, when really the entire episode was worthless.
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....NO....they were not....they were not in ANY VERSION.........
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.......God....some of you in here really need to get a life!!!!!!!!!!
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so are you suggesting that a poorly written script that is filmed nicely, has nice cinematography and decent actors makes it a decent movie? No my freind they are in the top 100 because they are well written, great stories.
I am pretty convinced now that he got blasted, and the theory holds that the shooter was waiting for meadow to arrive, and the whole music cut out thing - they have NEVER ended a sopranos episode with black screen, and music cutting out.
The whole Bobby everything hoes black comment, which was spoon fed to us at the end of blue comet to remind us........
I guess that will do for me.
It will certainly be debated for years to come!!
Fcuk me even David Lynch has closure even if it takes 2 years to work it out!!! -
.yes.....absolutely........the best WRITTEN movies aren't NECESSARILY in the AFI top 100.....some sure.......but all????? No
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If Chase wanted a happy ending for everyone, he wouldn't have ended it so abruptly....that makes zero sense.
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Art is what the artist wants it to be, not what you expect it to be. The show is about family and the road leading to the epiphany that it is his family that is most important...the only three people on earth besides Paulie that truly love him for him. TONY: "You and your brother used to run all of North Jersey" JUNIOR: "That's nice" Translation: BIG FUCKING DEAL. I'M DYING IN A MENTAL HOSPITAL AND DON'T KNOW WHO THE FUCK I AM!
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Cutting straight to the credits would piss people off nearly as much. It's the, "did my cable just go out factor" that pisses people off and makes this less than art. My take on it is, if a movie gets made, then Tony didn't get whacked. If no movie gets made, then he did. It was hardly an artistic decision.
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....anyone that thought their cable went out and didn't realize that was the way it was REALLY needs to go see someone....
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It's not a fact unless you can provide a screencap. It's a fact that people THINK they saw it, just as many people THINK they saw Groucho make the risque Cigar joke, and many people THINK they saw the Biggs scenes in Star Wars. But they didn't.
@downtheriver: I thought the ending was weak. Ambiguity != clever writing. Yes, it's open to interpretation. It's also easy and requires no creative effort. And stop saying that we'd be crying if they showed Tony getting shot. That's called a "straw man" argument: you claim we would make a particular argument (which is weak) and then you knock it down. It's crap.And oh by the way, it wouldn't have had to be a graphic scene. Show some guy start to draw a weapon right before the cut, and the ending is a hundred times better. -
this is a stupid argumnent.
My whole issue is that there are people on here suggesting that anyone that watches Sopranos for 'hits and tits' is a thick idiot who deserves the ending they got because they are 'too dumb' to figure it out.
Now I dont subscribe to that - I am a film nut - David Lynch being one of my fav directors, I love challenging material that gets you thinking for days afterwards,
Thing is theis last Sopranos episode has frankly just left me feeling a bit hollow. Yes the signs are there he got whacked, but the lyrics to the song suggest otherwise.
I just think after 8 years and 6 seasons Chase should have tied up more loose ends then he has........over the 6 seasons he has created far too many sub plits that have never crystalised, now just to add to insult we get an ending that really doesnt tell us anything except - Tony got whacked / Tony got on with his life - its up to you the viewer and it makes for an intense 5 minutes!!
Nice one Mr 'Teflon jacket' Chase
I think we should accept that he had created a monster in the sopranos that could never give any fan the closure they were looking for, so instead decided to 'pass the buck' and let us endlessly debate, and summise on forums.
I would be shocked if there is a movie, half the cast is dead, it would be pointless. I think this one will run and run forever.......unless of course there is any truth in the credits theory, but I dont beleive that -
/join #DeathToAICN
GIVE THESE PEOPLE AIR ( i.e freedom to talk motherfucker) -
"He wanted me to tell him something pretty."
Tony said it best in the first season, "This can only end two ways, me in prison or dead."
I was initally leaning toward the "Tony and family live on having learned nothing and still living their lives the same way, with Tony being paranoid".
But now, I'm more in the "You don't see it coming, it just goes black" camp.
Tony is dead. The End. -
the more you think it through, the music cutting out, everything going black...........it has to be. Thing is I would like to know for sure!!!!!!!!!
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...YOU ARE WRONG.....FLAT OUT.......leaving loose ends terminally loose keeps the reader/viewer questioning more things........that was the point.
How do the lyrics suggest otherwise?????Bottom line is.....the ending is perfect....for Chase. He INTENDS on killing Tony and if he gets more writing gigs, he can keep him dead. If not, he can come back and say the guy missed or just wounded him or whatever.....that is the real truth -
....when watching a film or tv(Fav Film - 2001, fav TV show Deadwood).
But I didnt see this as creative or intelligent - I saw it as lazy and unimaginative. -
..that you truly are a douche (I won't repeat your name, as I'm sure that would just give you a rush).
"guess you didnt watch the clip i posted"? No we didn't, we are all too busy paying attention to the production of people who are cliche'd. Good Morning All!
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@downtheriver: I thought the ending was weak.
That is why you aren't a screenwriter
Yes, it's open to interpretation.
No, it's not
It's also easy and requires no creative effort. And stop saying that we'd be crying if they showed Tony getting shot. That's called a "straw man" argument: you claim we would make a particular argument (which is weak) and then you knock it down. It's crap.
It's not crap it is the truth.......
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is life keeps rollin on and on and on..............despite it being pretty fucked up
but the song cuts out pure and simple, indicating he gets shot
when will all you artsy crowd just accept that Chyase is a bottler and has taken the easy way out passing the buck to us to figure it out.
That is not a clever artistic decision, it is just a fucking cop out!!!!!!!
Its like Van Gough saying ere mate can you paint some flowers for me, i will sign the fucker!!!
fuck you david chase!!!!!!!!! -
No, it won't. A few days from now, no one will even be thinking about it anymore.
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Gee, thanks David Chase for creating the best television show EVER. And because we don't like five minutes of ambiguity in the very last episode, we are going to bitch and moan like the worthless fucks we are.
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If your argument is that the real point of the ending was to leave it open for future potential commercial ventures, then fine -- I certainly buy that. (I don't like it. But I buy it.)But if you are going to argue that it's a good ending from a creative perspective, then I respectfully disagree. It's weak. Please, everyone else, note that there is a huge gap between "no ending" and "wrapped in a bow," and I would've have preferred something somewhere in that gap.
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..who are you to say that it doesn't fit Tony being killed. It could be referring to the REST of the family rollin on and on...and maybe in a better place actually with him gone.......
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Damn!
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i already said thanks david chase for 8 years of tv heaven, but fuck you david chase for the biggest bottler 5 minutes i have ever witnessed................total lack of creative juices flowing in that 5 minutes - just a cheap gag, playing on our emotional investment.
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I am not necessarily saying I love the ending, but by the standards of today's writing for tv, it is very creative. That cannot be argued. If you disagree, I suggest you watch a few more TV shows. If you just don't like it, sure that is your choice.
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Are you sure I'm not a screenwriter? In any case, I don't have to be a screenwriter to critique a screenplay/teleplay. Or understand it. Suggesting otherwise is weak, and it implies that the viewer must have writing experience to "get" it. On the contrary: good writing may take intelligence to understand, but if only other writers can truly understand it, then it's bad.
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The last shot I saw was of Meadow as well. Not paranoia. I just looked at my DVR again and after Meadow comes in and makes a face the cut to black happens.
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David Chase, creator of Sopranos, wrote and directed the amazing series finale of this landmark TV series. It ended the only way it really could. The tension built up in the last 5 minutes in the diner just shows you what Tony Sopranos live is really like. He has to live in fear of everyone he sees. The scene of Meadow running across the street had you thinking she would be run down and a car speeds by just behind her. As each family member walks into the diner separately, someone else comes in too. Are they tailing them? Are they setting up for a major hit of the entire family? You just don't know. Having Journey's Don't Stop Believing playing was epic. Cuts to the trucker with the USA cap, the young couple on the date, the cub scouts in the back booth. The episode was called Made in America...get it (made as in Mafia made) but also the American way/dream. The America of a diner, onion rings, rock music, ....just simply brilliant.
Question though, the FED agent that gave Tony the info...what does it mean when he said "We're gonna win!"? -
i'll say it again fuck david chase!!!!!!!!
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The man is gold whenever he speaks, and is the funniest on the show along with Christopher. How fitting that he survived out the original mobsters. Sil, Christopher, Big P, Pauley Walnuts, the only non-family man with no kids, no wife and no one to go home with, stands there at the end with the cat staring at him.
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Now we agree. Is it more creative than the vast amount of what passes for "writing" on TV? Hell yes. But for something that has hit the highs that the Sopranos has achieved at times, that's a pretty weak bar to set, don't you think?
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That finale was a complete disappointment. No disrespect to Mirajeff there, but Chase simply outsmarted himself. He was determined to avoid giving the audience what they guessed would happen (which pretty much covered every possibility) and he accomplished this by giving us nothing at all. The theme of the patterns going on is simply not deep or emotionally engaging. We were teased with dozens with dozens of potentially interesting storylines that never paid off a dime. Oh well, whatever. I've been watching the first few seasons on DVD and they're like a completely different show. A much, much better show than the mess Chase let things become over the last few years. We'll have those seasons.
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....i certainly HOPE you aren't one but not totally sure.....you are making statements you cannot possibly prove...what "facts" show that only writers understood it??????You are right that you don't have to be a writer to critique other writers...but, you know what teeth are and what to do with them, but I don't think I will be visiting you any time soon for a cleaning!!!
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Paulie Walnuts consistently broke me up. His mannerisms, his lines, his lunatic character, his hair...I agree. Gold. The whole bit with the cat was incredible. You could sort of tell that Tony wasn't nuts (as it were) about giving Paulie the big promotion (what with Paulie's obvious shortcomings), but nobody else was left.Give 2007 back to the Indians. Classic.
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...something can be of quality even if I don't like it........
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Her reappearance may have been the most startling event of the episode.
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I'm a die hard fan, but between Chase's dumb ass two year breaks between seasons and constant "fucking with us " mentality, I'm no fan of his. I 've read countless interviews with the cast and Mr. Chase and if you follow the timeline you can see in Chase someone who went from wanting the show to catch on with fans and being somewhat humble of his first breakout series to an arrogant dick head who feels like since he "owns" the Sopranos and created it ,the fans should just shut up and be happy he's giving them anything at all. Think i'm lying? Just check out his interviews in Entertainment weekly, GQ, TV Guide and many more. As far as the ending goes I think he just wanted to create controversy and have one last FU to the fans and detractors.
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I never stated that only writers could understand it -- far from it. But when I criticized the ending, you stated I wasn't a screenwriter and asked how many top shows I had in my IMDB entry.From that I inferred that you meant I would appreciate the ending if only I were a professional screenwriter, and to that I say that you shouldn't have to be a pro to appreciate it.From a creative standpoint, it would've been a lot harder to actually deliver a payoff to six seasons and, especially, those final five minutes of tension without resorting to a cliche. A great writer could do it. Chase chose not to. Whether that's because he couldn't, or didn't want to, scarcely matters.
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The FED agent is a mobster wanna be. That's what that meant. That was based off a real case (if can believe that).
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Don't try and tell me what I saw or didnt see.
The last shot before black was of Meadow from Tonys pov. That was the feed I and many others got. Deal. -
You can believe what you like. I will continue to believe that you misremember until you can demonstrate otherwise.
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I'll bet you REEEEALLY hate John Carpenter's movies then.God forbid you use your own fucking imagination instead of being spoonfed.But I guess that would explain your incessant crying like little infants.Go drink your ba-ba and go ni-night,fucking crybabies.
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just as much as any other of my favorite movies. the endings are open to interpretation as to what comes next: fight club, true romance, american psycho. the climax wasn't in two minutes, it was spread out through the episode. new jersey takes over, tony lives. most large budget features of any genre will leave it open to revisit. there is always an opportunity for more money. and lots of it. i have no problem with that. some of us by now can discern good from crap. are you going to be complaining if there is a movie down the road, or will you be first in line? at least the ending was original. i enjoyed being tricked.
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I think you inferred incorrectly. What I meant was, if you were a writer of any kind, you would have a better basis for being a critic. I don't think Chase was trying to create a narrative for a writing class but for the general public. I wouldn't critique a ballerina because I know nothing about ballet. If I say I don't like it, I can certainly do that but if I start to tell her how she could have done it better, I have no credibility.
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You're right. Why should we expect the film or show to do all the work? Hell, why have it do any of the work? We should stop being lazy bastards and just imagine the entire thing.Imbecile.
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he gave us EVERYTHING.You just have to fill in the blank.
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After all, he said he was taking oxycodone for a root canal in the episode where Christopher shot J.T. Oxycodone is the same drug Pussy was taking for his back when the F.B.I. were shadowing him.
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Just as if SW 1 was the only film of the series, DV would not be Luke's father and Leai would not be his sis, Tony is dead unless Chase has a follow-up that shows different.
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Now if every complainer would just read your post.
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God forbid you use your brain,either for one episode of a TV show,or replying in a talkback.
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The ending reminded me of the end of Monty Python's Holy Grail - that one looked like the film reel ran out before the end, but how else could you end it . . .
The ambiguous ending for the Soprano's series is appropriate - I really didn't want to see the family as blood-soaked corpses, but seeing him walk away scott free (like Henry Hill in Goodfellas) would be unsatisfying, too.
This ending lets you insert your own life view - does Tony deserve justice or a chance at redemption. It would be interesting to see a survey on who thinks each of the alternatives happened - it would be a gauge of how cynical people have become. -
Ok, ok ok, i gotta say this before i lost my mind. Deadwood isnt done yet. It WAS cancelled but we given a chance for closure. Not a full season but was given four two hour episodes to wrap up the series. This isnt Angel where we dont know what the hell happened.
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doesn't like tying up loose ends. This doesn't mean that his distaste (for conventional satisfaction) should have got in the way of his providing us with a little more insight into the condition that he was always allegedly fascinated with. Instead, he simply proved by his hollow ending that he didn't have any more insight into that condition than the majority of us (non artists). Besides, why keep defending his puritanical motivations? Has he not capitulated to convention several times over the years (in his saga)? We (the audience) are not to be looked down upon, simply because we all held our breath hoping for him to reward our faith with something a little more profound than "you fill in the blanks". This was us simply being optimistic. As an aside, I felt that Six Feet Under (among varied other tales) was just as effective at showing us our sorry condition (during it's entire run) while still providing a cathartic release (of it's characters) at the end (Prius commercial and all). Is the whore (who, by the way, is dressed up like a bike messenger, as opposed to a more conventional harlot) "massages" you ever so subtly, until she finally reaches down, tugs on you with great tension for about 5 minutes, then (prior to happiness), lets you imagine your own ending, a legitimate artist? Then again, what do I know? I have been known to cry at funerals.
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I take your point. However, if you had been a fan of the ballet for many years, and had seen many of the greats perform, surely you could offer an informed opinion on a particular performance?It's the same here. Many viewers have been watching film and TV for a long time, and many have potentially even studied creative writing to a greater or lesser extent. Informed critiques can be given even by those without professional sales.In that vein, I criticize the ending of this show. Without commenting on whether I've ever sold any writing professionally, I think I have a basis for offering a critique. Bottom line: I never expected the loose ends to all be tied up (because that's bad writing, IMO) and I never expected a Scarface ending or some other cliche.
I just expected *something*. -
But if I used my brain when replying to you, how would you know what I was talking about?See, anyone can argue with insults.
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Maybe.....but not necessarily....since you never had done it, your opinion probably will never equal someone who has done it or been involved in it, no matter how deep a casual observer you are. A better analogy is football. People comment on what teams SHOULD have done and what coaches SHOULD have done just because they have watched numerous games in their life. Sure their opinion means something but unless you have played, one will never REALLY know....or understand.
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Nobody has mentioned that Tony ate an orange near the beginning of the episode. In the Godfather we all know what that means...
Does it have any significance in this episode or is it another red herring? -
In the version I saw, which I taped to rewatch because I thought my cable went out, the music stops the second the screen goes black. It does NOT continue, not even for a second. The door rings, Tony looks up, the song gets to "don't stop" and then both the music and the scene cut out.
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I really don't think Tony got clipped. I just think the whole thing was designed to demonstrate the paranoia of his life. Still think it was a good ending. If he were to get clipped, they would have shown it for the sake of closure. Gotta love the fact they left it open for the imagination (and a possible movie run).
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Imbecile.
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Idiots usually think what they want despite the facts........
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downtheriver3: I'm glad you used that analogy, because it's, IMO, one of the classic false assumptions.Have you never watched a football game and listened to the color commentator, invariably an ex-player, and thought to yourself, "You know, I could really enjoy the game if that idiot would just shut up?"The best example I can think of is actually a baseball one: Joe Morgan. Hall of fame second baseman. One of the all-time greats, no doubt. But the guy just doesn't have a clue, and he barely understands the game he played. He buys into all the old assumptions and so-called "common knowledge" about the sport. Not only does he not challenge any of that; he decries others who make the attempt. He's a moron, and there are legions of people who've never played professionally who can offer a much more intelligent opinion on baseball strategy than he can.Most of the time when a coach or player says, "Well, you've never played the game so you don't really understand," it's just an excuse to cover a dumb-ass decision.
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Downtheriver, it was not Phil's brother going into the bathroom because Billy Leotardo was killed by Tony B. Spoonfed??? Sounds like you missed a meal somewhere, because it was a large part of Season 5 with Tony Blundetto going into business for himself and killing Billy, which sent Phil and Johnny Sack into a rage trying to hunt him down. Not to mention Phil celebrated his dead brother's birthday with relatives just a few short episodes ago.
And to ByTor, I don't give a fuck what you're skeptical about. I know what I saw. Where I live, the shot ended on Meadow about to enter the diner. -
I don't get it. I liked the ending. Maybe I need therapy.
I will tell you one thing...if they make a movie, then I WILL be pissed and angry.
Oh..Deadwood ain't coming back. Mark my words. We are being lied to inorder for us not to cancel HBO.
I'm still cancelling this week, now that the Sopranos is over.
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It's retarded. They are totally different forms of storytelling. Comparing AFI's top 100 to a fucking 6 season television show makes zero sense. What was the story that was ending? There was no story, it's a series of stories. That's the kind of show it was.
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I think you have it a little backward.......when an idiot gets up there and says he is right BECAUSE he played the game, than yes, I agree. But if you have 2 people, one played and one didn't, and both are doing analysis, and both are of about equal intellect, the one who didn't play can NEVER carry an equal conversation.
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I never CONFIRMED it was his brother, just repeating what I heard. But it NOT being his brother (even if it could be) makes more sense anyway.
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I would argue that if both are very intelligent that the difference, in many ways, can be so small as to not matter. But I fear we shall have to agree to disagree on this.
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That's fine. You're welcome to your belief. People believe all kinds of nutty things. Hey, it's a free country and all that.
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and you are wrong.......the shot ended with Tony looking up from the table....not that it matters either way.
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And who are you referring to as 'idiots'?
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The song being played at the start of the diner scene is "All That You Dream" by Little Feat. FUCKING BRILLIANT. Maybe he got shot. Maybe he didn't. But it was one hell of ride.
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that is what people who DIDNT play think.......but you are right in many ways it wouldn't matter....but with any in-depth coverage, it always matters.
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Okay, if Tony gets shot at the end and there is "nothing" that flies in the face of some of the supernatural implications Chase has depicted, most dealing with the afterlife (let alone Livia's "there's nothing..." comment). The biggest example is in the First or Second season where Paulie confronts a psychic who sees the room full of the dead that Paulie has whacked. No way the psychic could have known the specifics of these secret kills, how they looked, what they wore, etc. It was clear Chase wanted us to believe this was real. Also, I'm pretty sure the cat was Adrianna...
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Can anyone confirm what SVZ was referring to by saying the truth lies in the credits? (if he even said that to begin with)
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the argument is about closure - some of us wanted it - some of us are happy without it.
I get a sneak suspicion all these people championing and defending david 'teflon jacket' chase 'artistic' decision to pass the fcuking buck onto the viewer, really deep deep down would have preferred a conclusion to the 6 seasons of drama...............
If I want to write my own stories I will do a script writing course, but while I am not I wouldnt mind after 86 epsisodes a bit of fuckingf closure, not an ambiguous 'maybe we can do a movie, maybe not' cliffhanger
Chase is a major bottler, and most people agree...........forums are raging its not what people wanted from the ending.
Millions of people feel cheated and ripped off, and a few of you artsy types are defending Chase and his artistic license to peddle a completel unsatisfactory ending to the 'saga'
fcuk me roll in season 7 - starting with Aidriana waking up from her 'terrible dream' with Chrissie in the shower.........
fcuk you David Chase!!!!!!!!! -
The cat was atracted to "rats", nothing to do with Ad.
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TONY is NOT dead. I agree with a lot of people, that it was simply an epic and tragic sense of Tony’s life condensed in 5 minutes. The paranoia of getting whacked or getting arrested (because someone flipped) always looming over his head. Besides, why would Tony get whacked when there was a truce between New Jersey and New York during the sit down with Carmine? When Phil got killed, New York is left with no leadership or direction, and if Tony gets it, there is no leadership in New Jersey. There would be chaos, and that would be bad for business. It wouldn’t make sense. Also, usually when someone gets killed in the movies or television, the screen goes white, not black. Tony lives on with the burden of death, incarceration, and incompetence.
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good point. but a story is a story nonetheless whether it is war and peace or a shel silverstein. they all have origins and conclusions. there is no set way that any one of these mediums has to end. and why can't we compare the two?
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Was a cautionary tale. Don't trust cats that stare at pictures of dead people! Don't park you SUV on a pile of leaves! Put your SUV in park when you are stopped at a gas station! Don't order the onion rings!
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If Chase does a movie, or some spin off, then the ending is a total cheat and I will lose all respect for all the foreshadowing the audience is doing to try to figure this ending out. If The Sopranos ended on June 10th, 2007, then I say David Chase pulled the greatest ending of all endings, maybe this was the show about nothing.
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Him chasing cats and telling people to shut up and sit down. Let the man have some fun!
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OK, at first I was really angry. I mean really, really angry. I can't believe though that no-one has posted by now what happened. The only thing I saw that was right, was that in the last scene we are seeing through Tony's eyes.
Remember when he was speaking with Bobby...basically saying that you don't see it happening?
So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!!
David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.
So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant.
The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players?
The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store when bobby got shot last week and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?). Car jack episode
Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he. No more Tony and I guess we are supposed to be happy that Meadow didn't get clipped as well (she would have been between the shooter and
Tony) since she is the only one worth a crap in that family.
Thank you David Chase for making it so obscure that I feel bad for hating you at first. Absolutely amazing!!!! -
had Tony lean back in his chair with a look of worry and pain on his face. He grabs his gut and does that "oh" thing he does while Carm and AJ ask whats wrong. Tony then rips the biggest longest fart in TV history, much to Carm's dismay and AJ's delight. Meadow comes in, asks whats that smell. Phil's zombified brother comes out of the bathroom, lights a match and BOOM!! it cuts to black and roll credits.
But really though, Phil's brother has been dead for a while now so anybody believing that he was the bathroom guy needs to hop back on the short bus and pull their heads outta their asses. -
It was a CUT, and so ill placed I thought my cable went out. At the time I said it was the worst ending of all endings, then the old lady reminded me of Episode III.
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If that's really the case...then I retract my criticism. Now I've gotta go re-watch the episode and fire up IMDB.
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Time for a re-watch.
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Six Feet Under. SFU tied up all the loose ends from the series, and even showed you how everyone dies in the future in a scene that could have been really awful, but it wasn't and it worked very well. It was one of the best finales ever IMO. The Sopranos finale was good. But I wanted more. Call me greedy, but hey I loved this show very much.
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Pretty cool. It also, to me, proves Tony did not get whacked. Obviously symbolic. You can only screw over, murder, cheat, or rob enough people before it catches up to you. But to say any single person in that shop was there to kill Tony would be too far fetched with ALL of them just happening to be there. Great way to end it though. Thanks for pointing that out.
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EVERY person came in this morning pissed off at the ending, but as all of us sat there and analyzed, talked about it, and try to figure what the hell happened, many of us are starting to love it, or atleast like. Sure there are still a few 'it sucked' in my workplace, but I still say if it was the usual 'closure' type ending that 99% of the shows do, there wouldn't be this much talk about it, and I think we will be talking about this for YEARSSSSS!
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Mass cancelations?I spoke about this earlier in the season.Where it seemed like everything that was up and coming was garbage.After watching John from Cincinati,Im gonna stick around for awhile.(dont forget Bill Maher)The point Id like to make goes like this :Who gives a fuck?Why do we care who watches what?Different strokes for different strokes..Some like Greys Anatomy,its pointless to tell those strokes that Galactica is an amazing show.I for one was totaly satisfied with the finale.Il be even more satisified when these talkbacks are finished.Pound for pound Sopranos talkbacks have been the most infuriating.Its apparent not just here,but all across the web certain people just wanted this show to be what THEY wanted it to be rather than accept it for what it was.Yet they kept coming back for more,always watching,always posting, but never satisfied.
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My girlfriend and I watched the episode when it played at 9 PM on the east coast. After she went to bed, I wanted to watch the ending one more time, so I went to On Demand and fast forwarded to the ending. When it ended on Tony, I felt confused because I could have sworn the last shot was of Meadow coming in through the door and then the fade to black. I went to bed thoroughly confused.
This morning, I looked on here and at Boston.com, and sure enough, other people claim to have seen a last shot of Meadow. Here is a link to boston.com where someone mentions seeing Meadow before the cut to black http://tinyurl.com/2rurl7
I then called my gf this morning and simply asked her what she remembered as the last shot and she quickly answered "Meadow walking in. Why?"
Maybe I should go see Dr. Melfi, or is something weird going on? I usually don't imagine shit like this and I rarely post here.
I noticed a few other weird cuts last night. One happened at the meeting between Tony and Phil's guys, and then another one when Tony first walks into the diner and they made it seem like he was seeing himself sitting down....I thought at the time "here we go, alter ego from the coma episodes bullshit" but that turned out to not be the case.
Also, they worked up a lot of weird Paulie behavior in the last two episodes. In Blue Comet, he speeds off in his CTS after they setup the Italian hitmen, and in the last episode, he made a very strange face after a discussion with Tony (I forget exactly when). With the cat coming into the picture, catching rats, and the cat seeming to take an interest in Paulie (when he's sitting outside Satriale's), I had the feeling the cat was supposed to be Christopher, and he is trying to send Tony a message about Paulie. Notice also, Tony's luck is turning shitty again after the cat makes its appearance.
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At least the last shot wasn't a shot of a grown up Tommy Westphall shaking the fake snow inside of a Bada Bing snow globe. Some stupid bitch was on WABC News screaming that she feels like she wasted 6 years of her life. What a fucking retard. Like David Chase owes her dumb ass anything.
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closure!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you god, i am sitting down with missus to watch right now, she has just got back from work - after she has ranted and raved and she will - i will show her your post
herc i love u!!!!!!
fcuk you artsy crowd
closure closure closure!!!!!!!!!!! -
EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT! That's the point of the ending. No real closure and drive everyone up the wall.
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The killer(s) just didn't HAPPEN to be there....if you recall, Carm mentions they are going there earlier in the day so someone could know beforehand. Even if that wasn't the case, they could be easily followed. Do you think for every hit that goes down the gunman just HAPPENS to be there????
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For being a lowbrow schmuck who has to have his art spoonfed to him.
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I don't think that they were there for a sense of literal or immediate danger. I think it was more of a reflective moment. The show has always had moments or episodes where they dabbled in the surreal. All those people there out to get Tony at the same time? Way too preposterous.
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Here, here; EdRyder...here, here...
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where did you get the quaint idea that art is lack of closure?
Closure is art, anything is art, thats the point of art.....
I like my art produced by artists, not left to produce it myself.
I thought chase had passed the buck, now it appears not, I am not the only fan that will be relieved -
There is no Nikki Leotardo anywhere on imdb, the guy in the members only jacket has no credits on imdb, the black guys at the jukebox are no where on imdb. In regards to the guy going to the toilet and then coming back out to kill Tony, or Tony getting killed by the black guys doesn't go with the show. All the other hits on the show, the killers would just walk up, shoot and take off, not lollygag around and wait to make the hit.
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story fits fine, he was waiting for meadow to turn up, comes out the toilet sees she has walked in - bang - goodnight
thanks you mr chase -
Look at the TB it inspired, whether you love that ending, hate it or are somewhere in betweeen you have to admire Chase's chutzpah. I personally feel massively let down AND completely satisfied. My head's swimming with all the possibilties, and that's gotta be better than some sort of pat ending. And Paulie's ringtone had me laughing out loud.
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But your theory doesn't pan out.As others have pointed out, the guy in the Members Only jacket (Paolo Colandrea) never played anyone on the show before. He's a guy who was spotted in a Jersey pizza place and was used just for his look.Most of the others in the diner have no previous credits of any kind. One of the two African-American kids has some previous credits, but nothing on Sopranos.So we're back to a "nothing" ending, alas.
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...the killer waited because he wanted the whole family to see Tony die. That is the whole point of waiting for Meadow to get there. So the whole family is there. Not rocket science here folks!
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Youre telling me I have to search through the credits (Which zoom by really fast) or go on IMDB.com and search for "Suspicious Bar Patron #1" to find out David Chase is a genius? Come on! How ridiculous are you going to get? A bad ending to a series is a bad ending!
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no, you don't have to do anything...........and IMDB would not have it anyway
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chase knows that the moden world, the people that really give a shit will be talking on forums, talking at work etc etc sooner or later everyone that gives a shit about sopranos will know the truth behind the ending.
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...if all those people that had reason to kill Tony all happen to turn up at once,don't you think????!
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..doesn't matter if he wasn't on their before.....although, a previous posted already explained this.
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Er, yes it does, because the whole point to Herc's post was that they all WERE on there before (Nikki Leotardo, the carjackers, and so on). They were not, ergo that whole theory is deflated.
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That's just some BS floating around the internet. Here's an interview with the member's only guy (it was his only scene): http://tinyurl.com/2m8w2g
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First of all, many, and I mean MANY people have stopped watching this show LONG ago. People talk way more about Boston Legal than they do about the Sopranos, its been that way since 2004 or so. A couple of my friends were holding out like me. Needless to say nobody was pleased with the finale. It was so bad nobody is even talking about it. There is just a general shrug of the shoulders and a weary look of disappointment.
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Same at my workplace...everyone I've spoken to so far has expressed disappointment in the ending. For whatever that's worth.
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Let's assume the hitman is the members only jacket guy, he goes to the can comes out and shoots Tony. Well he goes to teh can before Meadow arrives so downtheriver3 your way doesn't hold any water unless he had some ability to know Meadow was parking her car. Also the version that most of America saw Meadow didn't make it to the door she was just running up to it, and yes I saw the East Coast feed.
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The final episode was a sell out. Chase has ruined it for himself.Where was the ending? The "ending" was Chase looking to make more money and more options. We never saw Tony reaping what he sowed. This is typical Hollywood Cosa Nostra sympathising bullshit. For UK users it actually remided me of One foot in the Grave. Its like Chase was writing for Victor Meldrew. Not Tony Soprano. I look forward to the comedy of Chase trying to sell a movie version of the Sopranos to Hollyweird and turning it into a "meditation" on post 9/11 America. SUCKED!!
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looks like bathroom guy was never on "The Sopranos" before last night ...
http://tinyurl.com/2m8w2g -
Is it true the finale of "Angel" had a similar moment (to last nights Soprano finale) in the end where it was left open?
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lets send Onion rings to HBO.. if I were Journey, I'd schedule a reunion tour right now!! BTW.. I thought the truck driver looked like Robert Patrick..
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Yes it did. The only difference is that, unlike David Chase, who had years to plan for the finale, Joss and co. had only two months to tie-up some loose ends and conclude it in a Don Quioxte-ish-like way, which turned out pretty damn brilliant considering that The Wb clipped off at the knees.
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I just checked the credits from last night against IMDB, only 1 of the actors listed even has an entry and he was on law and order. None of the actors listed have any entry for being on the Sopranos. I like the idea you posted but perhaps it is an allusion to those people, like you said for the people who pay attention. In that diner everyone was after the same thing, some family time, but Tony saw victims of his life all around him. He wants to be like everyone else but he sees himself and the rest are "little people" to quote Detective Bryant.
And to conclude this alternate ending nonsense, I just compared the version on my DVR from last night to the version on demand. They are identical, and end on Tony looking up toward the door. -
86'd
Eliminated, rubbed out, scratched, or, more bluntly, killed.
funny that
I have watched the episode several times now, I am convinced that he is dead.
Why the fuck would you have the blackness, music cut off etc
Tony is dead!!!!!
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Same here, nobody and mean NOBODY was happy with last nights episode. I gave up before this season started and have been telling everying that this season would suck. I was really hoping to be wrong, but I wasn't. Last night's episode eclipses the season five finale where Tony spends 50 minutes in a dream. Suck suck suck suck suck.
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It provided closure in the sense that you knew these characters would never stop fighting, even against outrageous odds. It was pretty damn perfect if you ask me.
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OK, the people defending this finale are way over the top! Come on, a bad end to what was once a great series is still a BAD ENDING! And no, I'm not pissed heads didnt roll. I am pissed at lazy writing, forshadowing that was not connected to anything that ended up happening, and the general fact this was anticlimactic and a waste of time! So far we have people saying that it shows how stressful Tony's life is. This has been a theme since day one and is hardly anything impressive to end the series with. The Tony is dead people, c'mon, the bottom line is we dont know and will never know. Based upon the fact that so many potential plot points have been raised and never explored, I am left to assume that the family simply finished eating their onion rings. Thats it. Thats it? Yes. This series is but a shadow of its former self. One nice thing I will say is that the ONLY character who got even a shadow of resolution was Uncle Junior... That was the only good and semi-touching scene the entire time. Thats it? Thats it. This finale was a joke folks, and the jokes on the people still trying to rationalize it.
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If the feds knew about the earlier attempt on Tony than one would believe that they would know if it was going to happen again and would warn him. Also with the reaction of the FBI agent when he found out Phil was dead it appears as though they want To keep Tony alive. My take is that the "mysterious" people in the diner were undercover feds keeping an eye on him. Either to protect him or arrest him as soon as the indictment comes down.
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but with time to think about the episode...Brillant on the part of Chase. I concluded that each viewer could fill in whatever they wanted based on how they view Tony. I figured that Chase was telling us that there Tony either dies in that resturant or goes to jail. The onimous (sp) patrons in that resturant are either FBI agents ready to pick Tony up or hitmen (the Godfather reference).
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..doesn't matter if they were on there before or not. People kill people FOR other people on the show all the time.
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This finale was just plain bad. Unrewarding, no resolution, anticlimactic. They even threw in a "Whacking" of Phil that seemed pointless and contrived. The one nice thing I can say was that the Uncle Junior scene towards the end was good, but it still wasnt great. I'm glad at least one character got some sort of closure! They just simply dropped the ball with this. I would have been much more pleased by an ending with tony looking into the camera and saying something like "Meadow went on to be a supreme court justice, AJ would die of a coke overdose in 6 years. Carm? Well, she divorced me not 2 years later. Me? Well, Im just hanging in there... tough... because I was made in America!"
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was that it was the last episode. Now maybe all the better dramas HBO has to offer can get their just due. I'm gonna miss shows like Deadwood and Rome a helluva a lot more than Sopranos. At least we have 1 more season of The Wire while HBO reloads.
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Then would everybody be happy? Maybe Meadow could turn into a 40-foot giant, and Christopher could come back as a skinless demon. Sheesh.
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Pendel Pizza is my jam too, i hope it turns out that guy whacks tony in some sort of deleted scene, with a giant pizza, im gonna go ask him if he filmed any scenes like that..... and order up a slice
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Dude.....first of all, with all the different cuts and pans, you have no idea where the guy is when Meadow walks in the door (which she does do by the way, there are no different cuts). Secondly, he could easily know when approximately she is going to get there. Somebody could be tailing here and in fact, that even proves the theory more. Maybe he was going to the bathroom to answer his phone. Your rebuttals hold no water.
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My first reaction was jaw dropping...did I hit stop on my DVR? but the credts faded in and rolled without music for the first time...This time, the music came before the credits and Tony was just about to change the song...I felt cheated at first but I like the ending now. I was looking at the clock on my cable box thinking how can the end this in two minutes?! But an innocent meeting in a dinner builds on random paranoia of our own and of Tony's...We live and breath with Tony in that booth and we die with him...or on the flipside maybe his paranoia just ceases with Meadows arrival and he has his whole family in one place and the screen goes black with the lack of fear...we'll never know...but it is genius...
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For wanting so desperately for there to be an "explanation" that you believed whatever bullshit somebody emailed you. You and everybody else who wanted "something to happen" from this episode are apparently not really fans of the show. You're fans of what you want the show to be, not what it actually is. Tony did NOT get shot after the screen went dark. There is no indication that any of those people were threats to him. The scene was shot so that you felt the tension Tony feels, the constantly looking over your shoulder mentality, the feeling that everybody's a suspect. That is Tony's hell. That is what we got to see. Life will never be easy for Tony Soprano, but he was certainly not whacked. If that was the impression Chase wanted to leave, he would have cut to black as soon as the guy at the counter began to walk over to Tony. THEN you all would have an argument. But Chase showed that situation deflate as the man walked into the bathroom.
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That would have been the lamest ending in TV history. Well...after Heroes Season 1 of course.
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Here's the deal. The FED that had "a Weird reaction". Well he's a mobster wanna be that was glad Phil died. This minute plot line is based on a real case where a FED actually started helping out the mob.
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The whole thing makes sense to people WITH some sense. Tony is shot.......bottom line.....PERIOD. The scene goes quiet and black because he is dead. There is no other explanation.....anything else is a total grasp.
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Yeah, you guys keep watching this episode over and over again! At some point you will realize what a shit ending it was. So far I think we can agree that Chase was trying to show the stress and paranoia of Tony's existence. As if that hasnt been shown in just about every single episode ever aired! The finale was bad! It happens! Get over it, at least we all still have the 1st 2nd and 3rd seasons!
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bollocks
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Meadow is never shown entering the diner and it is very clear that the guy goes to the bathroom (to answer the phone as you may have it), then the black guys enter, then the onion rings come, they eat the onion rings, then Meadow parks the car, then runs towards the diner, just as the guy gets the secret go ahead in the can to hurry and run out of the bathroom and shoot Tony just as Meadow opens the door, as we hear the bells on the door. Seeing as since he wants the whole family there to see Tony get whacked, he decides to shoot him now instead of waiting for Meadow to get to the table. Is this because he thinks she's hot and does not want to get blood on her. Wow talk about a leap!
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You clearly are missing my point. I was specifically referring to Herc's post, claiming that the various diner patrons HAD been in the show before, and that's what made the ending so clever.I don't think I can put it any simpler. Whether people kill for other people is about as irrelevant as can possibly be.
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Give the finale back to the indians. Give me more Walnuts, the only redeeming thing in last nights episode.
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chase sucks
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That's right Chase, there's a creme pie with your name on it.
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I'm still upset over the sandwich Tony threw away last episode.
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"FUCK YOU, IT WAS GOOD!" "NO, FUCK YOU, IT WAS BAD!" Chase had to know whatever he did, at least 50% of the people out there would hate it, so it almost seems like he intentionally did something ambigious enough to really get people talking about it. If so, mission accomplished.
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The ending I really saw (disregard smart ass post above) ended on tony looking towards the door not with a shot of meadow. I watched it with a room full of people and we all saw the same thing. Hell we even rewound it and watched it like 6 more times just to see if we missed anything. No Meadow. Not saying it wasn't there for some to see, but not in dallas bub.
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Dude...you are wrong.....I have it on DVD at home. You see her face after she enters. I don't know what you are smoking. It is NOT clear that he is going to the bathroom. You have no idea of that. Yes, he goes that way but he could take one step in and turn around and come back out. You have no idea. Using that as the base for your arguement is idiotic. Also, your chronology is way off (not that it really matters but)The guy shoots almost instantly when you see Meadow (did you not read the other posts where people describe the look on her face? Also, Chase is using a pacing that isn't constant. It speeds up and slows down so you cannot possibly say the guy had no time because of that.
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Juggfuckled.
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David Chase doesn't owe the viewers anything...yes, he does.
I PAID for HBO to watch the Sopranos since the first season. I never subscribed to it before then and would cancel my HBO once the Sopranos season was over and wait for the next to start and reconnect. Over the years I also picked up on Deadwood, Carnivale and Six Feet Under as shows worthy of subscription, but Sopranos started it all. Given my faithfulness and and my defense of the first part of season six to all my friends who were down on it, I'd say Chase owes me at least SOMETHING! Let's face it...Chase realized that any ending he came up with would be criticized and decided to go with the easy way out that allowed him to pass it off as "art" and anyone who argues is ignorant and unimaginative. BULLSHIT!
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Comcast, in Kansas City. Our viewing ended with Meadow, having entered the diner, walking toward camera, with her POV just off center, upper left. One could argue a look of mild concern, but nothing definite.
Then cut to black. No continuing music. Just black, no sound. Then silent credits.
This is what we saw, with absolute certainty.
I believe Tony got hit. -
"Best ending ever" or "Total rip-off" argument aside: Does anybody else have that fuckin Journey song stuck in their head today? I can't shake it.
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You know that they all die. especially when they show the 40 foot dragon. They just didnt want to show it or didnt have the resources but you knew they all die. The sopranos end was kind of cool. We were all waiting for something to happen so we were super sensitive and paranoid like tony has to live. I didnt mind it..he whacked the show and the fans..we didnt hear it coming...
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Jeebus people, I can't believe the venom. Why can't someone like the ending? I was like WTF?! just like everyone else, but honestly, let the hate go people.
The Urban Legends spouting up over this episode is so pathetic. -
I also saw the 8pm central time show, except in Dallas and it ended on Tony's face. Just fucking accept that there were two different versions. It's retarded I know but I didn't edit the fucker. If someone can post a clip of the meadow ending, please do so. Ive been wanting to see the look on her face since it was first mentioned there was a different ending than the one I saw.
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I watched it on my tivo and gave an exact recounting of how it went. Also the guy walked all the way into the bathroom, and by the way why would he just go in and quickly turn around when you previously said he went in to answer the phone. You go back and watch it. And until I actually see the 2nd version that some people say they saw with it ending on Meadow I will not believe it. I live on the west coast and watched the east coast and west coast feeds and both ended with Meadow running towards the diner, not entering and Tony looking up. If you do have this Meadow scene as you say on DVD then post it on the net somewhere for all to see. Until then go back watch it and in the last scene Chase is not screwing with pacing as much as you want to believe.
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Some people seem to think that if you didn't like the end, then you simply don't get it. First off, nobody knows for sure if he lives or dies. That much is apparent. But I recall the Angel series finale ending in much the same way, yet I thought that was perfect. It didn't matter who lived or died, they just went on doing what they had always done.
I guess the problem I had with the Sopranos finale is that the entire season has been about building up the tension. I hated the first half of the season, but I was really getting into the second half because it seemed like the tension was building to something big. If we were suppose to feel like what it was like in Tony's shoes, then I must have missed something. Although he was always fearful of the law, he never seemed to care much about death. He even seemed to manage a full night's worth of sleep in the safehouse.
Some of my other problems with the end: What's up with Silvio? It seemed like his "end" was also engineered for an eventual movie. They should have just killed him. Also, Sylvio or Bobby should have been able to put up a fight. I had assumed they were saving the great fight scene for Tony. If Tony wasn't going to get it (on screen) then Sylvio shouldn't have gone out like a punk. What was up with the "we might actually win this thing" line? That agent may have been on a friendly basis with Tony, but only reluctantly gave Tony the info he needed. For him to think of Tony as "we" was a bit weird. This AJ story should have been done a season or two ago (I had said that back then as well). The club storyline works him into the family business while still allowing for ambiguity. Same with Meadow's storyline. They should have skipped the whole Finn nonsense and jumped right to what they left off with (i.e. interesting Patsy story lines). It seems like the point of the last two seasons was to slowly get us to the middle of the story.
2007 had the worst season finales ever. Throwing in a WTF twist at the end (BSG, Lost, Sopranos, etc) is just lazy writing and I'm getting tired of it. Finales weren't a problem in need of fixing. They use to be the best eps of the year.
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Maybe I am just seeing things but I watched the ending twice last night. It seemed like the 9pm version ended with a shot of the door (i just confirmed this with my wife). The second time I saw it (12am on one of the HBOs) definitely showed a shot of Tony looking up from the table. What gives on this? Is this possible?
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There a big changes coming in Jersey!
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...and it seemed pretty clear that, as it was Tony Soprano's story, it ended when he did - the black screen when he was shot in the head - the guy coming out of the bathroom unseen by Tony because his attention is on the door the whole time and he's distracted by Meadow coming in at that moment. He looks up and sees her - and dies. Meadow walks in to see her father shot dead.
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1)Hey idiot, I never said he DID go into the bathroom to answer the phone. I said he COULD HAVE done that. He could have done a LOT of things given the pacing changes and YOU cannot possibly argue your point.
2)If that is an exact account than either your memory or your TiVo is not working correctly.
3)You are wrong about the ending.
4) The pacing changes.......if you don't agree you really are an idiot. Why don't you argue that Tony wasn't there because in an instant he went from standing at the entrance to sitting down. Why don't you argue that the booth really wasn't there? Chase plays with the pacing all the time. Do you even WATCH THE SHOW???? -
from an interview circa 2001:
"What's the difference between what's art and what isn't art? That's the hard question to answer. The only thing that I guess I believe is that a lot of what I see on the air and in other places is giving answers, and I don't think art should give answers. I think art should only pose questions. And art should not fill in blanks for people, or I think that's what's called propaganda. I think art should only raise questions, a lot of which may be even dissonant and you don't even know you're being asked a question, but that it creates some kind of tension inside you."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/july-dec01/chase_8-8.html -
Saw this in New York Magazine, here is his quote at the viewing party:
There was another ending, Matt "We're going to win this thing" Servitto told reporters. The last he knew, the scene in Holsten's diner — which was shot in the real life Holsten’s out in Bloomfield, New Jersey — went on a little longer and featured one of the menacing figures in the diner dominating the camera. "The scene cut as the guy was advancing towards him, as if he was about to shoot Tony. It was, I think, less ambiguous that Tony was going to get shot."
The full article
http://tinyurl.com/2xrmo7
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Don't go addressing new subjects without first admitting what a retarded (and revealing) post you recently produced: "ALL THE HATERS ARE RETARDS...I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BADA BING....hey, i didnt catch everything, but i thought that the black guys looked very familiar"?
So everything you posted before this (about how there was no easily explained ending needed) was bullshit? And I'm sure that those black guys did look very similar, errr, I mean familiar to your dumbass.
So how about instead of you ignoring the valid points made here recently, why don't you address my and a few others (Jumping Willow, sk, etc...) sentiments?
Also (unrelated), even though I usually didn't need (want) to see graphic (anatomically correct?)depictions of murder to get my kicks (over the course of this series), I will say that what Silvio - possibly the smartest person out of the whole lot of them all (and cooincidently also the quietest) - said to Tony after he whacked that NY guy in last week's epsiode did give me horseflesh; "I gave him my answer". Classic. Me must be stoopid. -
........much more effort than if the whole family was sprayed with bullets.......get a brain
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I did not want to see Tony die, or put in jail. I did want to see Phil get his, and lord did that scene satisfy.
The last episode gave me what I was looking for. No, I did not say to myself "I'd like it to cut to black" but it gave me a very satisfying ending. Someone earlier said that last scene gave us access to exactly how Tony feels. That nauseating paranoid nervous anticipation. That goes a long way in letting us know why Tony is such a flaming asshole 99% of the time. I for one don't think he's dead. Those characters in the diner are all familiar as discussed earlier, but aren't those exact characters(the lack gents who shot Tony and the trucker, etc.) Its just Tony's life going on and on. Tony's face at the end wasn't of worry, or shock, it was the same look he gave everyone walking through the door. He's just paranoid, miserable Tony Soprano trying to manage a dinner with his family. I am just fine if we never see a Soprano movie or mini-series. I guess I'm in the minority, but I liked the end. -
I dunno, I really like the ending with the assumption that everyone dies in a heroic final battle. Akmost all of the major characters, especially Angel, Spike and Illyria, had major redemption story arcs. While it's arguable that Spike earned his redemption at the end of Buffy, the idea that everyone was redeemed by one big stand in the end sits well with me. I'd feel robbed if Joss came back now and said they had survived.
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wrong.......wrong.........wrong
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Just wondering.
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I heard the sequal is a porno starring AJ and his model girlfriend...........
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Two episodes back he says that when his grandma was dying she said life was all "nothing." Then as they were getting their drinks in the last scene he reminds tony that he at one time said, "always remember the good times." This is resolution enough for me. Did Tony live or die? It's up to you but the show was over and we end up with nothing. No moral to the story. No resolution. The whole show was a build up to nothing. But we always have the good times to look back on. It's all about the "journey", not the ride.
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i mean the destination, not the ride, damn.
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I also saw the 8pm central time show, except in Dallas and it ended on Tony's face. Just fucking accept that there were two different versions. It's retarded I know but I didn't edit the fucker. If someone can post a clip of the meadow ending, please do so. Ive been wanting to see the look on her face since it was first mentioned there was a different ending than the one I saw.
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I felt Agent Harris's quote had a double meaning. He's been working anti-terrorism and helping Tony. He seemed to be watching some sort of Al Qaeda video when the other agent walked in and gave Harris the news. So "We just might win this thing" on it's face could mean Tony but it also could refer to the war on terror. Overall there was a lot of Iraq and anti Bush imagery in the episode. With that in mind it also felt like a possible rip on America in general. Here Tony and family just went through a horrible time and lost loved ones. But they meet at the ice cream shop for dinner and act as if nothing was wrong or is currently wrong with their world. Like post 911 America. We quickly lost the memory of the tragedy and go on as if nothing bad happened or could happen again. Or for that matter that bad things are happening elsewhere in the world. The ultimate ego-maniacal, self-centered and dysfunctional family was "Made in America". Then again maybe I'm just a moronic fucktard. I'm sure someone will let me know.
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Where's the link to the part with meadow walking in?
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Clearly, we the viewer are the ones who were wacked! Chase had no good way to end it, so he wacked us.
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I bet the guys from Journey were on the phone all day about ways to cash in on this. They haven't had this much press since, well NEVER!
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I'm not sure how you or I can be wrong or right. The show cut to black without anything happening. What did I miss? In my world, Tony's life goes on, and I'm happy with that. You shouldn't tell me I'm wrong when neither of us have any idea what the real answer is. Why does the bathroom guy have to shoot Tony as you argue? There are too many possible reasons for his appearance and actions. You saying he definitely shot Tony is just as likely as others who say he was acting weird because he's just a Jersey Joe Shmo who recognizes a mob boss at a diner. Like it or not, the ending can't be explained 100% towards either argument. Too bad for some people I guess. I don't mind it.
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yeah the double meaning crossed my mind too, but in the sense that maybe Harris was kinda rooting for the underdog to come back and win it, the underdog being Tony and the Jersey crew. Maybe he sees Jersey as the lesser of two evils. "Then again maybe I'm just a moronic fucktard. I'm sure someone will let me know." good line
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Set in the Sixties and Seventies when Tony was growing up. Johnny Boy and Junior as well as a young and crazy Paulie Walnuts. I like it!
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Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant. The final scene was the most tense 5 minutes of television I have ever experienced. Thanks for everything David Chase and HBO.
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I have three (count 'em) sources: the DirecTV east coast feed, the DirecTV west coast feed, and local Comcast. ALL THREE of my copies end with Tony looking up as the song goes "Don't stop!" followed by a cut to black, which stays for a little bit, then credits roll silently.I can only presume that those of you who claim to have seen Meadow in the last shot (I say "claim" because there are still no screencaps/vids posted anywhere) clearly are getting the special "Area 51" feed that the aliens broadcast specially for people who prefer to wear tin foil hats.Or, alternatively, your mind filled in that bit because that's what would naturally come next, and since you clearly don't have a recording of it, you couldn't go back and confirm or deny. Happens all the time.
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I for one dorked out big time for Agent Harris helping Tony. When Tony realizes who is on the phone, and having Harris in bed with another agent/ officer, that was spectacular. That was a payoff of that storyline, one scenario batted about was if Tony would be arrested or if Harris was going to turn around and bust Tony due to 'those two Arabs.' It was good to see Agent Harris confirm what I perceived as an 'on the fence' friendship he had with Tony.
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If I walked into my local diner to see a mob boss staring at me as I entered, I'd crap myself. And the last thing I'd be able to do was sit down and order some food. Then if he kept looking up at me, like Tony did, knowing that a mob war was currently ragging ('cause the shootings would be in all the papers and on TV)you know what I'd do? I would head strait to the bathroom and crawl out the fucking window. But then I'm a bit of a puss.
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Yes, I am sure.....I admit I am not sure about the ending (as I posted earlier)but it doesn't matter, if there are 2 they still both apply.
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yes.........you are!
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"The final scene was the most tense 5 minutes of television I have ever experienced." Thank you for bringing this up, I said almost the exact same thing to my friends after watching it. Blackout, shmackout, those few minutes were the most intense I've had watching any TV show.
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That was the perfect series finale for the show because it was exactly like the show. One bit of violence to keep you watching, then tons of suspence after which NOTHING happens! It's a compacted version of the whole series. Brilliantly executed bits of hollow nothing. Perfect!
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Si senor.
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They did'nt die. According to Joss, they survived. The resolution of what happened in the alley will be answered in the comic book version of season six, which will be released later on this year by IDW Comics. It's currently in production now.
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Exactly my thoughts. Look at AJ, the more I think about AJ the more it affirms my belief that his character wasn't all bad, he's just a kid growing up in todays America, a product of what is around him. I think we can all relate to a little bit of AJ, we just don't like to admitt it. There's a little bit of each of us in those characters.
Chase did a great job, he didn't bow down to the sensibilities and rules of TV and movies, which is why you have all these morons going crazy - BECAUSE THEY WERE RAISED ON SHOOT-OUTS. When they don't get the shoot out they cry. It's a pretty bold statement by Chase that can be taken in a number of different ways.
I don't believe it was anti American so much as a criticism of the way we are (or the way you guys are, I'm in the UK), and quite possibly this will be one of the last great statements to reach such a wide audience ever again. We are all so fucked, and it doesn't take a genius to realize this, Chase was just using this as an opportunity to maybe wake us up..or not, maybe to just tell us.
He broke the pattern and people don't like their little patterns being broken, because they need to see the shoot outs, the blood, the misery.
I think the whole episode was amazing, made so many statements, pointing out a lot of things and the ending was genius, it managed to bring out the retards talking about "he got shot!!!", it showed us Tony's world, it fucked with us "don't stop", etc, etc. So many different things said in those last 5 mins.
I love it, this really reveals everyones true stupidity. Normally I can be swayed when people dog a movie or show, but nearly 24 hrs later I'm still happy about the ending.
Well done Chase!
Oh and there is no movie morons, you make me sick! :-D -
You are wrong buddy.......the preponderance of evidence leans towards Tony dying. Like I said in a previous post, why would it end by going to black as it did with no music. What is the logical explanation for this?????If this were a trial,the decision would be Tony dying. But, than again, there also were idiots that thought OJ was innocent so...many people wont let the facts get in the way of a good story
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The civil war between left wing and right wing rages on with the images of 9/11 constantly looming over us, reminding us in everything that we do. We never forgot. It's just that whenever we try to put it in perspective, we're either called bigots or appeasers. 9/11 is still very real in our minds. But we can't let it dictate every single moment of our lives. Why shouldn't we sit down with the family to ice cream still?
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"...I was born, grew up, spent a few years in the army, a few more in the can and here I am, a half o' wise guy."
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All that shit you were talking, calling people idiots, telling them they must be smoking or something, all that shit, and then you just up and admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Come on man, at least ride it out till you're PROVED wrong. Deny deny deny, THEN apologize. Didn't Clinton teach you anything.
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I am telling you that the shot ended on Meadow here, but a family member who was watching in another room swears it ended on Tony. Some sort of digital trickery is afoot, I don't care what anyone says. This was carefully planned out to encourage conspiracy theory and endless speculation.
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Write your own show and you can end it as predictably as you want. I wasn't in love at first with this ending but then watched it again and my mind has been changed over the last day. I love that I went from shock, to anger, to acceptance, to love in less than 24 hours. People bitch about how much mindless TV is out there and then when a show challenges you to come up with your own conclusions, they bitch. And I have a feeling the complainers are the same group who have only tuned into the show for the violence and not the substance. I love that I haven't been able to get this finale out of my head since I watched it last night. I love that I have gone over every possible senario since yesterday and probably will for years to come whenever I see an episode or are reminded of the show. That way the series never really ends and that's pretty cool.
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Some people "in the know" expected an open ended finale. Not saying good or bad, just pointing out the idea was out there.
http://tinyurl.com/29ptc5 -
You talk just like David Chase, calling customers idiots because they make use of your services.
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Voldemort and Harry are dueling in a fight to the death when Voldemort gets the upperhand. He points a wand at Harry face and the next page is blank. And the next and all the rest.
A nice fullfillinging ending to a great saga.
And everyone can call Rowling a genius and say how those who wanted some kind of closure are unimaginative idiots.
Funny how many people are supported Chases joke on us all. -
While it certainly was unique, and a huge curveball, the ending was totally bogus. I didn't watch a show for 8 years so that I can be given absolutely no answers about any of it. You can call everyone a cry baby because they don't respect the "artistic" decisions of Chase, but "artistic" or not, they're bullshit. He's just saving himself from making any hard choices. If he was really clever, he would have come up with an ending that was tangible, and unique. If JJ Abrhams took this road, and just ended without answering any questions, everyone on this board would flip claiming that the show that never gave any answers just backed out ungracefully without supplying any closure to a show that desperately needed it.... and they would be right. Boo David Chase, way to save your characters for some stupid prequel with Junior and Johnny Boy and flashes of Tony, Sil, who could still be alive if he wanted, and Paulie- the only characters you need to make a movie.
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Re-watch the scene, the people in that scene act normal out of context of your own paranoia.
The two black guys are just walking in, they don't even look at Tony. The guy at the counter just looks around. Nobody is really focused on Tony at all, it's just how it is in most places, people look.
The guy goes to the bathroom, nothing dodgy there at all, people go to the bathroom.
It takes a 2nd viewing to see all of this. It's YOUR MIND playing tricks on you. -
8 fucking years and just like that? I switched from HBO to STARZ this morning. they have more channels and better movies anyway
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I certainly do NOT need any more info to see that you are a complete waste of human mass. Worst than that, you haven't an analytical bone in your body and obviously cannot rub 2 sticks together to obtain a credible thought so let me help a moron out. I said I wasn't sure about which SCENE the ending showed last. But, that has NO IMPACT on the concept of the ending. IT IS STILL THE SAME.......get it mental lightweight?????
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That's the first proof that Tony was indeed killed. Granted, the actor that plays the agent might have just been offering his interpretation (who knows without seeing that alternate scene), but at least it is from the cast. I still think they should have cut directly to the credits (as my satellite cuts out like that all the time so it took me out of the moment) but it redeems the ending a little bit for me. And I would have liked to have some idea who that assassin guy worked for.
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While creator David Chase has laughed off suggestions that he planned to have the Russian come back, Sirico reveals that they actually planned a scene with him this year.
It had Paulie and Christopher chatting in a bar about whatever happened to the Russian, who had been wounded by gunshots but ran off in the snow in that earlier episode. "And in the script," he says, "we were supposed to go outside and there he [the Russian] was standing on the corner. But when we went to shoot it, they took it out. I think David didn't like it.
"He wanted the audience just to suffer."
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That is the way it is suppossed to be dullard!
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OR, It goes on and on and on and on...but we can't watch anymore.
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..."computer wont go on"........ha ha........sounds like we have found an idiot!
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Get a life. Seriously, get a f*&(ing life.
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"The preponderance of evidence"? I still don't see the evidence, I actually went back and watched that last scene. Tony's face in that last shot is the same damn face he makes when every other person walks into that diner. Even when Carm walks in, he barely cracks a smile. He's just miserable Tony living out another day in the life of being mob boss is what I see there. The ending in black doesn't neccessarily mean Tony is dead. It COULD mean that, but the fact is, we just don't know. Too many times throughout this series, we've been 'swerved' by dialogue or by characters never turning when we thought they would. Bobby telling Tony about how you never see it coming, and it's just blackness, doesn't sell it for me that the ending means Tony is dead. Especially because Bobby DID see it coming, he saw his killers standing right in front of him and he knew what was happening. There ain't no way of knowing with what was shown in that episode, so I can't put creedence in you telling me I'm wrong and you being so damn sure of it.
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Mental lightweight huh? Yeah talk all that shit over the net pussy and then get real tough when someone calls you out. The real fun is getting under your skin while you just sputter and check your dictionary for ways to be a condescending, pretentious ass. Sorry I hurt your feelings Nancy. I'll back off.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_America_(The_Sopranos)#Guest_starring
I have watched the final scene like 20 - 30 times now and while i concur 90% of the paranoia dissapates on 2nd viewing, that guy definitely looks and acts very shifty, and has the classic body language of your average mobster hitman
I am still going with the lights out Tony is whacked theory..............that damn song though it leaves that niggling doubt!!!
aarrrgghhh I hate you Chase!!!
Its clear as spring water that there COULD be further adventures ahead for the Sopranos, a few of teh cast have already been on record as saying 'wait and see'
personally I dont want it - i have begun to love the ending, its not the ending i expectecd but its the ending and thats what we have to live with.
It cetainly has pre occupied a few hours of my day today, i it had been a straight forward whack job, then it wouldn't have...........
I still think is a cop out on Chases part - it gets him out of having to give closure AND of course leaves open for movie if Chase gets a little desperate or creatively stale he can go back to his old pal Tony.
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Don't disagree with DTR3 or else he'll go to fuckin thesaurus.com and really let you have it. Moron
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Don't disagree with DTR3 or else he'll go to fuckin thesaurus.com and really let you have it.
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what?
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Yeah, you tell that little crybaby. What a douche.
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As G-Force1 posted, the guy who plays the agent describes the final scene before they chopped it up by saying it was less ambiguous that he was going to get shot. I'd say that puts an end to that debate. The debate that remains is whether Chase went about conveying that well enough and I'd still say no. He was just trying to be cute. I would like to see the original cut.
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..but they do have shady looking characters that are trying not to hard to look shady for effect!
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..dude.....Bobby died and the same thing didn't happen because we aren't seeing the story throuhg his eyes, that is the difference. Give me one possible credible thoery why Chase would have them sitting there over dinner adn then all of a sudden everything goes black....and no music, no music during the credits. Give me one rationale reason for that????There is none. All the facts lead to Tony dying.....saying he lives is simply based on wishful thinking only.
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..bring it on retard.....go cry to your mama you illiterate piece of garbage.......i would be glad to rid the planet of your pathetic existence.
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Whatever.
He didn't get shot.
Wanna know why?
BECAUSE IT WASN'T ON CAMERA.
Get over it. -
The blackout ending has sucked you all in, as was the intended result. DOWNTHERIVER3, you really think you have it figured out, as do a few others. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, really knows. Nothing happened, nothing but people going about their normal business and having a family dinner. Clever cuts to strangers around the shop, that's it. Realistically, there was nothing to create tension but the anticipation of something happening. No one knows what happened, and anyone that claims to should get their imagination in check, because there is nothing at all indicating something good or bad happened. Enjoy your imaginations peeps.
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I just re-watched the ending. The most important cut in that scene is before the music starts. The music is in Tony's head. So is the entire end. Here's my two cents.
Tony walks in the door. Then cut to the shot of the restaurant interior, with none of his family there. Next, cut back to the closeup of Tony. Then right back to the shot of the restaurant, except now we see Tony seated. We assume he's been shown to his table. The nature of the cut makes it possible that he's in a dream sequence while waiting to be seated. The scene rolls on... He chooses the song, it plays, yadda yadda yadda, Meadow can't parallel park, finally figures it out, jiggles her way across the street. Cut to Tony from the side, cut to Tony from the front, the bell rings and cut to black.
I think Tony was ruminating while waiting for a table and got shot in the back of the head. The bell from the door was someone opening it behind him and capping his bipolar ass.
Or, maybe Carmela set him up? Why else the desire to see him out of therapy and the sudden change in dinner plans? I think she just wanted to try being a prison guard for a living. -
Calm down we don't want you to get an upset tummy. How you gonna rid the planet of my pathetic existence exactly? I hate to tell you, but whipping around a vocabulary that you know good and fucking well you don't use in day-to-day conversations is NOT intimidating. Retard, oooh. Illiterate, yikes, you got me man. Cuz being able to read these sad, blustery responses of yours obviously means I can't read. Keep going Sally, I'm off all day and need something to do besides throw forks at the power outlets.
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Tony's dead.
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My friend said this about the ending:
"the impact of the gynecological analysis of reasonable doubt would point to such a controversial copulation, for the overall consumption of the systematic conjunction of maximum realities. Therefore it is my contention that the forecastle non catalytically".
K, douchebags? That's the answer right there. -
You're helping prove my SUCKERS! post. Quite an imaginative interpretation.
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Did you take that off of DTR3's Myspace blogs? Ha this IS fun! Watch he's gonna be really articulate with this next one.
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To think that Tony is still alive is not just wishful thinking. I have said previously that various scenarios could have played out in that diner, and we just don't know which one it was. That is fact. GForce1 posted the link to the actor who played agent Harris. In it, he says that an original scene showed an ominous, seemingly 'hitman' type character dominating the screen as it goes to black(but also, never anything definitively showing that Tony was about to get popped). Obviously Chase and his editors deliberately chose an EVEN MORE ambiguous ending than the one described. We should also take into account that they supposedly shot multiple endings, so perhaps what one actor saw wasn't exactly what Chase was ever intending to show in the first place. The bottom line is: Who the fuck knows? Not you, or I, that's for sure.
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Yeah I took that off his blog about it. He also went onto say this about why Christopher was killed:
"My contention, in all serious debaucheries is one of the foremost foreshadow of cultural quantizes. Christopher being the hydrophilic accursedly of the era of questionableness procreational. Therefore, the aforementioned debacle of the flouncing theories would therefore point to a degree of lacking tolerance of futuristic magnitude and coincidence". -
Um... are you claiming having an imagination is bad and, therefore, proclaiming you have none? That's sad.
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I agree, no one really knows, and the more I think about that ending, the nore I like it. It has properly got under my skin .
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but to claim it as absolute fact is a problem. That's why it's your imagination. Trust me, I love that Chase did what he did. I thiink that not enough movies or TV shows let you use your imagination enough these days. But to say something that you conjured up in your head is fact and insist on it, well, go check in with Dr. Melfi.
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Watch your credits. That's the guy who goes into the bathroom. Make of that what you will.
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I didn't bother to read all the posts here, and I missed yours as they don't contain analysis. I'm here to discuss the show; you're just here pointing fingers at people who are interested.
It's interesting that you don't hold this show to any sort of standard. For years now a story has been developed. You think the author simply ends the plot line without consideration? I simply expect and end and feel challenged to understand it. Maybe by exploring the art I will understand it, and myself more clearly.
Then again, you probably don't bother reading WHOLE books. Who needs the last chapter of A Clockwork Orange anyway? When you understand what I mean, you will understand why endings matter. -
Granted, it may not be the definitive ending, but based on Harris' quote, it was on the table at one time and he referred to it as an extension of this ending, not an alternate. I think Chase got cold feet at the end and decided to make it more ambiguous so that he can do a movie or leave the door open for HBO to give him a boat load of money for a comeback. If the show comes back in some form, then he's not dead. But if the show doesn't come back, I think it's now fairly clear that he is dead. It may have been poorly executed (pun only intended after the fact), but that does seem to have been the intention here.
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and my head is still swimming it around, it has completely fucked my exam revision today, i expected it to be a 'quick watch' at 9 this morning...........fcuk i should have known!!
I have grown to love it over the past 12 hours, but boy its taken some ranting inbetween - its a love/hate relationship - never had this reaction of a prgramme / film in my life so guess in a bizarre way i am satisfied.
I am going to watch all 6 seasons back to back now and savour the journey!
For my money i interpret him as dead, the black out, the number 86 for episode, the shifty geezer - it all fits Tony got what has been coming for 8 years. Man I love him, but that fcuker deserved a cap in his ass!!! -
How does Tony get shot? Where is the evidence that he got shot? There is none. It wasn't shown, therefore IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
You could all be like "Tony rapes Meadow in the bathroom with the shady guy" -- but we don't see it.
They shot a bunch of endings to throw people off, throw the cast off. Chase knew the ending, but didn't want to ruin it for everyone or have a cast member leak it.
I mean, use you brains people. WE DIDN'T SEE THE KILL! So why is this being touted as a "fact".
Some people are so stupid. -
I've followed "The Sopranos" since its first episode; I've never missed an episode.
Simply put, all that ending meant to show was Tony and his family in a good light. After his own mother, Livia, tried to have him killed, after a mentally imbalanced Uncle Jr. (not to say that Livia wasn't either) shot him, after Tony having to kill two of his associates, Big Pussy earlier in the series, and Chris M. most recently, after all of Tony's marital infidelities, after all of his embezzling, stealing, thugging, killing, suberterfuge, after recently having to save his son from drowning in the very the pool in the Soprano home to beating the living $#!% out some New York Leotardo family thug who got too liberal (heh, how's that word?) with his daughter in a restaurant, after his countless (hard-to-watch by the viewer) fights with his uber loyal wife, Carmella (sure she wanted a little something with that priest; but, she renounced that eventually), after all of that during the series (and a heck of a lot more I'm not mentioning) . . . [gasp, let me take a breath here], it was just nice to see Tony have a "sit down" with his family, A.J. (his son) very much beyond his own unstable mental health status, ready to shoot a film with Tony associate Carmine (whose, well, "primary" type of film is porno; but, hey, he and Chris M. DID shoot the Daniel Baldwin [playing himself] as lead actor, mob/horror flick "Cleaver" which sorta did well at the box office in "The Sopranos" universe), Tony's daughter Meadow having recently been offered a legal aide job, herself on her way to law school, Tony talking all nice like to his wife . . . yes, David Chase makes us think the whole family's going to be off'd in that restaurant they're in by focusing the camer on two loners who entered the bar as well . . . this image, that the Soprano family's OK . . . then a quick fade to black which seems to last forever. THAT was a very pleasant way to go out, despite all that has transpired. We can say that the last time, for probably all time, we saw the family (the Soprano family members that we like), they were OK. This entire last scene, to the tune of Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'." Made sense.
What kind of endings are we used to? The Death Star blowing up, Han and Luke and Chewie getting medals. The ring being thrown into the lava and Frodo sailing off in the silver ship. The guy kissing the girl at the end. The romantic comedy ending all nice-like. Again, and again, and again. YAWNWWN.
"The Sopranos" had a great ending, in part, because it was so darn different.
There was a lot of insightful scenes in that last episode, though. Tony's FBI "contact," being just as infidelous as Tony himself, having an affair (affair, right?) with a female agent, Paulie Walnuts disclosing he saw the Virgin Mary at Bada Bing! once (complimented by what'll become a classic "The Sopranos" line by Tony [paraphrasing here]: "why didn't you say something earlier? F*&k the strippers we coulda' made a shrine, sell out jugs of holy water . . ."). And Phil's death? Would you ever see yourself saying, "the funniest assassination scene in a long time?").
When stuff is truly made in America, there ain't nothin' better. Church. -
...but I won't insist that he is. There is no way of knowing unless David Chase confirms it. I will say that there won't be a movie or continuation of any kind. David Chase wants us to suffer over this until we die. Evil genius.
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First, the reason for this talkback: It was an intense piece of TV. Nobody can deny that. In regards to T getting clipped, no one can say. Interpretations only. My opinion: I don't know what happens to T, I think Chase was trying to give us some insight on what it is like to be hunted. We see AJ with a cool job and Beemer. We see Meadow with a Lexus. ALl these toys, all for his family, at what cost? His constant paranoia and depression. That is a much sh!ttier outcome than death. For everyone who is shouting "CLOSURE!?" If we see him die, get arrested, go on the lam, we wouldn't be talking about this today. So thank you Mr. Chase for that. Finally, in regards to the blackout. The little talk between T and Bobby, that's what happens when you die stuff... the SHOW is over. So it just went black. Tony isn't over, the show is done, so we see nothing.
To everyone here who is sparring back and forth personally, if you NEED to do that for self gratification, at least use terminology relevant to the post topic. "Mobspeak" if you will. Keep the readers who aren't so emotional interested by writing like cut scenes throughout the series. I'll start it: DTR3, don't get cvnty! -
you are a jerkoff, have you got something to bring to the table or just fcuking bullshit!!??
the general consensus is the pointers all lead to Tony being whacked - of course it is ambiguous - the music etc etc
But when you REALLY look at all the signs, they indicate he got a cap in his head.
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Yeah, I'd watch that. Let's see 'em do a spin off of THAT. (see Paulie's concern about gunfights in ep #85 as he harkens back to the dark days of Columbians vying for power).
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Hey naysayers, wrap your heads around this : sometimes it's not all about plot. The Sopranos has never been a "figure out the mystery", LOST-type of show. There aren't "Hidden Clues!!" buried in the scene. The scene is there to give you one last heaping of tension, which in Tony's life and (vicariously) in ours has been building and building and will continue. The guy's now living in a world where yes, he *could* be whacked anywhere, anytime... but we don't get to know the ifs, wheres, or whens. Even in a wholesome American diner over some onion rings, everyone looks like a suspicious character to Tony. Plus the meta-tension involved in the fact that WE know it's the end, and if anything's going to happen, it's going to be in this very scene. Loved it. But it's not about "piecing it together."
By the way, nobody saw Meadow in the last shot. "Mass hysteria" isn't quite the term, but same concept. Sorry, but you just didn't. Hell, it wouldn't even fit with the purpose and timing of the scene. Feel free to prove me wrong, and I don't mean by typing "but my wife said so!" -
Gorehog, obviously you never really got the show, did you? I had predicted some time back that the should could very well the way it did: open ended, no resolution to the many threads it had going over the years, etc. Life goes on for the Sopranos, and that's it. Maybe Tony got hit, maybe not. I personally felt satisfied that it ended this way, probably because I expected it to.
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You're wrong. Period.
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and am going to bed, time for my own blackout.........its been emotional
bada bing! -
Anyone ever noticed the recurring theme of A.J. absolutely transfixed with cartoonish images? See Pine Barrens from season 3, where he is hypnotized on the couch watching a music video of a living, breathing milk carton. Then, the episode where he's in the mental hospital and he's gazing up, wide eyed at the commercial of the groundhog saying he wants his friend back, the human sitting at the table. Weird. It's like A.J., following in his father's footsteps, was entitled to whatever he wanted. But what he wants is so unrealistic that it is impossible, so he moves on to the next 'thing' of the moment in his life: the club life, a pizza parlor, black women, pills, world peace, explosions, the military, then back to the club life.
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Did I just see a post called "haters are boring" from someone with a name like "Lucasblows"? I, for one, appreciate your artistic sense of irony.
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Jun 11, 2007 6:12:10 PM CDT
My initial thought was that Chase left it to the viewer
by cletus van damme
...and seeing that the "B" side of "Don't Stop Believing" was "Any Way You Want It," I think I've got a strong case.
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I already said what I had to say, if you're too dumb to realize things then I don't know, go watch Sex and the City?!
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Tony dead or not dead will replace the Global Warming debate and WMD's or no WMD's! Wait and see! We create our own realities so believe whatever you want. Whoever disagrees with you is just an insane gibbering bastard anyhow.
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David Chase is simply brilliant, definitely (not seemingly, but, definitely) taking every ounce of the audience's memory bank of past films or shows (The Sopranos episodes included) and using them to create an apprehension I, and I don't think a lot of other viewers (well, at least me, but, I cannot, simply cannot believe I'm alone in feeling all this), ever felt at the ending of any show. That’s what he played on – sure, sure, we all KNOW how the mob show ends, why the HECK should this be any different. We’re convinced. A.J. (the son) arrives, followed by some conspicuous-looking dark haired guy, also suspicious. Sure, sure, the camera focused on two guys you never saw in the show before – a redheaded guy in denim who looked like he just finished his duties on his farm and another black haired casual jacket-wearing guy who looked like he just signed off on divorced papers. The camera focuses on them, so, what? They GOTTA be hitmen, right? TWO hitmen, right? Gotta be, right? WRONG (i.e., that those two have to be hitmen ain't necessarily so) . . . Maybe IT IS "make your own conclusion." For me, it's just a nice payback -- you see Tony in a very good light. They coulda' made him golfing at the end, chomping on a cigar; that might very well have been ideal. But, this, this, seeing that Tony's is OK, that you can live the rest of your life knowing and being able to report that the last time you saw Tony, he was OK, that the entire legend stops there, Tony and family looking good, better lives than they've had to suffer, endure over the series, that is just wonderful. Having experienced The Sopranos episodes and scenes where things didn't end up all neat and tidy. Can’t just say “100% Tony got shot.” No way; case in point -- of Chase decides to do a movie, timeline clearly after that last episode? Get ready for the “nanny nanny boo-boos” comin’ your way. Can’t say Tony must’ve got shot” so easily. No way. It’s Chase’s world as much it was Agatha Christie’s world when she made the decision to off Poirot in his last adventure, “Curtain" . . . So, Tony's a criminal. So he's cheated on his wife. So he's for himself, except when it comes to blood family (overall; sans his marital infidelities), when it comes to life and death, he protects his family to the death; that's the example mob bosses show that we can all at least contemplate whether we'd do the damn same . . . "The Sopranos"; that's what this show is called. There's just something immensely likeable about the guy. Warts and all, we've seen him, getting an honest glance at him the way we wish some we could see the same of politicians, the same way we wish we could see evildoers. This honesty. Simply charming.
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NICELY DONE
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can somebody check if I is?
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Has anyone ever been de-thousandth like Neil McCauleys Crew before?
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Thanks for the *wink**wink* ending David Chase. Way to get real cute with your audience. I canceled HBO and the only way they are getting me back is if they do A Song Of Ice And Fire, and they do it soon.
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Good for you Jack, you've found your answer. Why are you still here?
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David Chase must have a superiority complex. In order to leave a groundbreaking show in the hands of "serious fans" only, he's alienating half his audience, regardless of how intelligent or insightful they are and Chase knew this. so what if he tied up loose ends with Junior, so what if AJ got content with life, so what if Meadow got a great law job, so what if Carlo testified, and finally so fucking what if Phil got whacked. Because in the end it all works out, right? apparently not. Theres something so very egotistical about Chase leaving the audience hanging like that, even if you do add up all the motley characters who walk into the restaurant in the end. So what if they all have something to do with certain occurances in the past to where Tony commited acts of autrocities. With this being the ending of one of the greatest shows on ever, it leaves the majority of the audience saying to David Chase the same thing he said last night to all of us......SO FUCKING WHAT
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choose you're own adventure book coming this fall. If you want to see Paulie give the cat back to the Indians turn to page 76...
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Quote: "nobody is even talking about it". And yet, here you are. Tit.
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vocally bitter about not having gotten to see our extra .8 seconds or so: let's not get angry, hostile, or otherwise unfriendly. Just agree to apologize if and when the creators and whomever else was behind this unpleasantness admit that they pulled a mindfuck on all of us. Consider the weight of just the brief second of Meadow that we are accurately describing to all of you who were deprived of it as opposed to just Tony looking up. Don't they make for drastically different interpretations of the ending? Haven't they already made those who saw it and those who are jealous of those who saw it want to bash one another over the fucking head with the giant Diamond Springs water bottle, or whatever that company is that brings the water to my dad's work. I've no clue how they managed to manipulate our home digital recording devices, but they pretty accurately guessed that no jerkoff would be recording it on VHS, not any jerkoff who knows how to use the internet anyway. I'm certain tons of average folks, those not superior enough to get on the computer and argue anonymously about a television program, those who choose to do it IRL, the suckers, bickered back and forth from cubicle to cubicle all day. It was a gimmick, albeit a great one. I think they're gonna let us stew in our juices for awhile, but it won't be long before the rest of the idiot nation, those unfamiliar with AICN and sites like it, bring this debate to national attention. We certainly don't have the clout. And don't even imply that I have some kind of 'mass hysteria' or saw what I wanted. I've done enough acid to know the difference.
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Think about it. Bobby and Tony discussed it in the first episode this season. In the boat, they discussed what the end would be like and one of them said it would be just nothing. You just go out.
That's what happened to US. As we're "sitting with the family" eating dinner, we got whacked, which is why the screen suddenly went blank. To me, that puts a huge finality to it - no movies, no spin-offs, etc. They can't because we're "dead" and can't see them anymore. Tony and his family will go on without us there.
Additionally, in any interview I've read/heard with Gandolfini, he sounds very much like he's done with this character. He does not sound like a guy who wants to revisit Tony Soprano anytime soon.
Just some thoughts... -
I just don't get how some of you complain about not getting a "satisfying ending"...as if the show were created specifically for you and you alone! David Chase (and the other creators) owe you nothing...not one iota of "satisfaction" or even "closure". It's HIS show, HE can do whatever the hell HE wants to do because it's HIS story to tell. Would I have liked to see more?...sure, but I'm not gonna cry about it. It's over...simply sit back and enjoy one of the absolute greatest shows of any generation. Saying how this finale "ruined" the previous 7-8 years is utterly ridiculous! Now grow up and go cry some more about who shot first in the fucking Cantina! wah!
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I am surprised that I haven't seen this posted but if there were truly 2 different last shots of the final seconds of the episode (I saw the Tony as the last shot version) it is possible that Tony wasn't the only one who got whacked.
Perhaps some people saw the AJ & Carmela POV while some saw Tony's POV. It sounds like most of us saw the AJ & Carmela POV.
It sounds like it could have been a Sopranos family bloodbath and Meadow was the only possible survivor.
Just food for thought!
I intially was pissed when I saw the ending but the more I watch it again then think about it more the more brilliant I think it is!
Despite what you think of the blackout all of you have to admit the 4 minutes leading up to it was very intense even though nothing gloomy was truly going on! Very nicely done!
Just my 2 cents!
Tim Ryan
Lisbon, Maine
P.S. What the Hell is Gobble Goul (sp?) anyway? I have heard it referenced as food on the Sopranos but being an Irish Mainer, I have no clue what it is! Someone please help me out! Thanks in advance! -
... and TV shows. Our reactions paint a picture of who we are. Don't you think? I do. Chase is polishing his rod and reel right now. Your cheek must be really fucking sore. haha. Sorry, but if that ending pissed you off then you were only enjoying the show on a superficial level. BTW, please keep getting sick of posts like mine. It's precious! Maybe you can mail HBO a box of walnuts to protest. hahaha. You wouldn't know 'resolution' if it crawled up your skirt and stepped on one of your herpes sores. /eats your gabagul w/peppers and feels good about it.
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Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on
-- Journey, "Don't Stop Believing"
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..is capicola in dialect.
And oh yes, Meadow Believers, I will apologize and blow each and every one of you when you prove that shot exists. I promise. Not worried about getting my tonsils painted. -
So, in other words, someone who works in a restaurant can only serve the customers half a meal because they don't 'owe' them anything?
A detective doesn't have to use all of his resources to track down a missing child because he doesn't 'owe' the parents anything?
If life were the way you describe David Chase's obligation-free existence, then the world would be all kinds of fucked, moreso than it already is. -
where the fuck did the batcycle go?
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I stated that I felt the Sopranos was worthy of the extra money it took to subscribe to HBO to be able to watch it. I just feel that Chase took the easiest way out that he could have and I feel cheated. In much the same way that I feel cheated when one of my favorite filmmakers makes a sub-par film (i.e. The Brother's Grimm, The Ladykillers, Planet Of The Apes). When it's all said and done...it's just a show...but after 7 years of loyal viewing, I expected more.
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Just watched Made in America on a replay and the ending tonight was definitely different from last night's. I am NOT kidding on this one. I've never been more sure of anything in my life.
The car that passes Meadow as she crosses the road came from the opposite way than it did last night. I'm pretty sure it's a different car too. The thing about last night's is that it was filmed in such a way that it looked like Meadow may have been about to be hit by the car. Not so in this version. And tonight's version did in fact end with Tony looking up, but it was NOT that way last night. I GUARANTEE IT! Expect some elaboration from Chase or an HBO executive come dvd release time. -
Remember when we were all going back and watching the first half of Season Six On Demand and the trailer with Tony gazing out over the lake remembering everything that's happened would randomly spring up at the end of On Demand episodes? If they can play out with the digital signal like that, who's to say they couldn't have played around with the ending and shown different parts of it
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remember the uproar over Janet's titty malfunction being obsessively watched on Tivo/DVR after the Superbowl and the cable providers discussing the possibility of removing it from people's DVR's and Tivo's? They have the ability and HBO certainly could have used their sway to pick that frame out of the episode. In fact, they did. The only other possibility is of me being wrong. Impossible. I saw what I saw and anyone who didn't and isn't open to the FACT that at least one version of the ending had Meadow uncomfortably looking up and left before blackness can suck the pea soup out of my clapcock. Do you really think I'm bold enough to lie anonymously to strangers I have no respect for over the internet? What good is saying I told you so if you never told them?
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I for one am quite happy with the ending (though I could be happier), and imagining Tony's life continuing in its downward spiral. I think he deserves living in paranoia for the rest of his life even more than he deserves death.
But the sad thing is that nobody's talking about the quality of the episode overall (though i HATE any part of the show that involves AJ, and always have). The last scene, however you feel about it, was the most tense thing I've seen since waiting for Michael to come out of the bathroom in the Godfather. It was brilliantly done. And the frigging negotiation scene in the warehouse, with the giant pieces of machinery hanging over their heads and their breath freezing in the cold air...absolutely beautiful. Possibly one of the best scenes in the history of television. The darkness, the cold, their refusal of water, all made it clear that the mafia is dying and that it really doesn't matter what happens to Tony. And it was just visually stunning.
And then there was last week, with Tony and Sil slow-motion boxing a la Raging Bull, with Bobby looking on and laughing. It was heartbreaking, because you knew at that point that at least one of them was going to die (Bobby was my guess at the time). Just excellent work, whatever the end result may have been. -
because it's "art" - you, we, the viewer(s) determine what the ending is based on what we've seen. Chase's intention is irrelevant. Our interpretation is what's important. Tony's dead. Tony's alive. Both are valid explanations based on what we've seen. There have been a lot of endings created on this Talkback by us, that's kinda cool. All are, in a sense valid. The more I think about it, the more I like this ending....Don't Stop Believing - Hold on to that Fee-la-a-a-lang...
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you're right on the money and I'm there with you sir. Such an ingenius way to make certain that everyone will be debating this ending. Lots of us didn't even get the same one. I had the same as you, I assume, with Meadow's face and wide-eyed look being the last shot. Very interesting that the car came from an opposite direction on your repeat viewing. I tried watching again and I only saw that I got the lame Tony glance that all the suckers got last night. These jerks owe us so much head it's not even funny. I believe them that they didn't get to see what I did, why can't they believe me that I saw what they didn't?
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...in the shot right before it. Your brain has it jumbled, reinforced by others who misremembered as well. Once again -- if this other version exists, where is the footage? Surely someone has it, right? Antilifeequator, you're not lying...just wrong.
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Why have none of the many online reviews mentioned this? Any of them who mention a "last shot" talk about Tony glancing up.
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To add to the whole Tony/Meadow last shot thing, I just rewatched the episode. Last night during the scene where Tony visits Junior, he asked: "You know who Bobby is?" Junior replies. "Yeah, the Ambassador." To which Tony follows up and explains who Bobby is and Junior replies "sure." Well tonight when I watched it, they skip the whole "Ambassador" line and have Junior reply "sure" the first time. Very odd. The ending was the same one I saw last night, with the last shot on Tony.
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How could this have turned out so badly?
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Which is exactly what some guy shouted at the Bada Bing the other night.
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Jun 11, 2007 8:23:15 PM CDT
Click on tiny URL for leaked STILL from ORIGINAL ENDING
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************SPOILERS!*************
The original ending was the same BUT the message to the
audience was much clearer rather than obtuse.
http://tinyurl.com/2n2vl3
Yes, they cut to black amidst suspense.
Damn near 10-15 seconds of black.
Most people thought their cable went out or that the Tivo/DVR took a crap.
Then the credits rolled.
I wonder how many people changed the channel back and forth
to test the TV signal only to come back to HBO and see scrolling credits,
thinking...did I miss it?
My theory is that Tony didn't get killed.
He got arrested.
Those suspicious guys were feds.
They finally had the goods to make good on an open &
shut arrest/conviction.
They didn't put that visit with the lawyer in there for
nothing.
It was the end of Tony's life as a free man.
Hell, they probably shot the arrest but decided in an
after-thought that it was stale...or maybe tragic to watch him get arrested in
front of his family...or just redundant.
Meadow even said earlier in this episode how harsh it was
for her to watch her dad get dragged away by the feds. So the ending was that
she saw her dad get dragged away, yet again...for the last time.
P.S. The guy saying "OH SHIT!" during Phil’s
head-pop scene was fucking hilarious. Best Oh-shit I've ever seen.
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Until I see it on a video site I call bullshit.
That's how I feel about it. -
i was so tense at the end, i was just expecting something bad to happen i was tense, it was nail biting, and in the end it was nothing.
For once, the Sopranos were happy. Tonys little ducklings didnt fly away. -
For those who think they saw variations on the final scene I can tell you once for all that you imagined it. I TiVo'd both the East Coast and West Coast feeds from DirecTV just in case of power failure/nuclear war/rapture/Eli Roth news break, and after watching both endings they are exactly the same. There is NO shot of Meadow entering the diner from Tony's perspective, just of her running toward the door, Tony looking up and fade to black. It's easy to see at how fast and unexpected it came that many people imagined seeing it otherwise but it did not happen. Sorry guys, one ending on all feeds. And for my money the way Phil was killed in front of his family prefigures what likely happens to Tone.
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...can someone clarify this for me. thanks
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Nobody gives a fuck how you feel about it. We saw what we saw.
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i really believe that it's possible that you saw her glance at the camera before tony looked up. i would guarantee that i saw it differently if i thought that strangers should or could trust one another. i've heard repeated conflicting reports and i'm not really surprised by them. the fact is this. the image of meadow actually looking at the camera was the image i held in my mind as the show closed. i don't subscribe to the theory that your thoughts can become "jumbled", especially when concentrating intensely on a scene like that and having it ripped away at the last second. it was not what i wanted to see. i was horrified to see her look toward tony like that because, to me, it meant his death, something that i was dread to see. when i replayed the episode and skipped to the part, mead's eyes never met the camera, she was looking down as she hurried to the restaurant door, the bell rang, tony looked up, "don't stop". i won't try and assure you of my stable mental status, but i am not going to be jumbled and then join the herd of sheep when the 'mass hysteria' hits. this 'rumor' has recurred on multiple websites and i know of very few people sad enough to go hit every message board they can in an attempt to incite mass hysteria and 'misremembering'. just a few, but they're there. i highly doubt that plot would work though. your digital recording is stored on mainframes (i think, please abusively correct me if i'm wrong, computer guys) at your cable provider. your box isn't a mini-computer. this signal can be manipulated on playback. the reason? i've already speculated that it could be a ploy by hbo to make this an ending GUARANTEED to really be talked about heatedly because half (or a lot less)of the fucking people didn't see the same fucking ending as the rest! if they would use what some call the gimmick of a sudden cut, why not fuck with us a little more. i'm not tech savvy so i can't say whether this is something hbo could arrange themselves, or if it is a hoax the cable providers would have to be in on as well. but i know what i saw. i was one of the first to discuss it on here and a few other strangers simply aren't enough to rewrite my recent memory, nor are the doubts of many enough to make me doubt it. it's pretty brilliant considering they know this is almost foolproof as fucking no one records on videocassettes anymore. maybe cletus tsjy. it will be cleared up soon enough, with the release of the dvd at the latest i would hope. and it's not really the placement of meadow's glance at the camera that matters most, it is its existence at all, which most are questioning. i'm glad you saw it, wish you'd seen it in the same spot i did so that we could agree. remember unenlightened, up and to the left.
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Junior actually said "Ambassador Hotel" when asked about Bobby. He was referring to Bobby Kennedy who was shot at there in 1968.
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This is starting to remind me of Close Encounters.
And that makes sense, UDJ. It's also dumb, but makes sense. -
Most (not all) DVRs are like small computers with hard drives in them. I've known several guys who cracked open their DVRs and put larger Hard Drives in them to have more space. On-Demand services are from a central database, which is why they are slower to respond to commands than something you record yourself.
Just an FYI -
fuck you buddy
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I got the reference, I just thought he said "the Ambassador."
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Yes, $180 dollars a year. Where does this money go? Cuz, it obviously didnt go to the final episode of the Sopranos last night. I feel completely ripped off. Shotime, which has less than half the subscribers has almost twice as many original programming shows. Dexter is probably the best premium show on TV right now. Fuck HBO.
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Really? You don't believe that your thoughts can ever become jumbled? You remember everything exactly as it happened, always? I think in moments of high intensity it's MORE likely that you could misremember something. I don't think it's a conspiracy...just unintentional misinformtaion, which spreads quickly.
I think the "bell jingle" of the door caused a lot of people to assume Meadow had just walked in. It's easy to understand why someone might have remembered that they actually saw it -- in fact, a lot of someones. Ask yourself : why would HBO bother to do this? To guarantee watercooler talk? Come on -- this is already one of the most anticipated finales in TV history... you think they need to pull some "dual ending" trick to get people to talk? Especially when the supposed shot of Meadow doesn't drastically alter anything? -
So do you think Meadow was telling Tony what she thought would make him happy, lying to make him feel guilty, or telling the truth about why she wants to be a lawyer? She has shown before that she knows he's a mobster, but other times like last night she whines about how he's persecuted just because he's Italian, even though she knows he's probably guilty of everything he's ever been arrested for and lots more. From the look on his face, I thought he was upset about her deciding to defend people like him instead of being a doctor and helping people. For a second I could almost imagine him telling her that she should be saving lives instead of keeping people like him on the street.
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i saw god on some STRONG fucking mushrooms once, tony's peyote revelations actually reminded me a lot of it, but knowing that most of the world doesn't have HD, they couldn't include all the spinning wheels of indecipherable letters and bright yellow chainlink pattern flashing on the ground and making it impossible to do anything but crawl. maybe that was unique to my divine sighting. anyhow, can you tell me whether that was real or not? also, one of those exorcist preachers prayed over me as a teen to cure my 'rebellious ways' and i ended up feeling really sleepy and having recollections of my dad molesting me as a youth, although it looked less like my dad and more like a skinnier guy in a preacher's collar wearing a my-dad mask. were either of those real, oh expert on all things imagined? that's a serious question, both of those things have really been bugging me. i'm being kind of an ass, but i dig eyeliner, for real though. makes the underage emo chicks at my local dive club swoon.
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like i said, i'm not too wise on all that. i'm still certainly convinced of the shot, but even more curious as to how/why it was done.
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It was all too real
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It was all too real
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It was not real.
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and i know that eyewitnesses to crimes are painfully unreliable because of their intense emotion at the time of said witnessing. i'm sorry you feel like i'm not remembering things in the right sequence and i'm not saying it to rub it in your face as a pathetic attempt to make you feel bad for doubting me, but i definitely believe you saw mead's expression before tony looked up. the strange thing is, a lot of people are questioning the very existence of a closeup on meadow in which she looks ahead and to the left, something i think you are saying that you saw before tony looked up and we all got tele-blueballs. it's very strange, and i'm aware that it sounds paranoid to jump on the conspiracy wagon, but i can't imagine why so many people would remember incorrectly and fuel each other's misrememberings, even on separate message boards and blogs that i can't really see being immediately related. talkbackers may not be the most educated bunch, but i've seen a lot of intelligence and insight on here, and very little of it on the hbo boards (one seemingly bored soccer mom/housewife requested some of "those smart posters, the ones who compare the show to shakespeare and all that stuff" to interpret the finale for her), which i looked at for the first time today along with rarely viewed blogs i found through search engines and found a lot of this same seeming confusion. you're right, a big gotcha at hbo to keep us talking at the watercooler (and i'm attempting diabetes through canned pepsi anyhow) doesn't seem to serve a purpose but i'm at a loss of how else to explain the phenomenon. you certainly have one way of looking at it, but i have to wonder if such a specific psychological phenomenon would be brought about by a tv show, one i care half as much about as i did buffy and angel. i just don't see it, but i hope it becomes a little clearer soon.
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What the fuck, HBO must have altered my first response (the real one with me looking up as I walk through the door) in an attempt to control your mind by using a highly complex and indecipherable technology know as Da Intranet
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and i'm not joking, i really do wear the stuff. i stole my mom's sharpener because i was too ashamed to buy my own, but not the pencil itself. i don't want us all to get along, as aj so comically suggested a few episodes ago, but many of us who SAW IT/DIDN'T SEE IT are obviously fans of the show who have shown it some devotion over the years and for that reason alone, i hope we get to the bottom of this. i enjoyed the discussion/debate on the meanings of the show up until the point where we all started repeating one another and i hope that this seeing/mis-seeing adds another layer of depth once we all figure it out. for me, having that last shot be of an ambiguously ominous meadow before the fade to black and having that 'ghost eyes' effect on the screen as it faded to black (like the bad lady on the alvin and the chipmunks movie, though her eyes were animated to stay on the screen after her pivotal lines of nastiness or somesuch) felt much more like a crushing assurance of tony's demise in front of the family he almost had another of his rare near-perfect culinary moments with. watching it again and seeing tony only glance up on repeat didn't seem like it delivered that message quite as definitively.
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Anyone bother to read the synopsis on the the HBO webiste? It basically says the episode ends with Meadow arriving just in time for dinner with the family. Tony is alive, we just arent seeing his life anymore.
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that can't be mere coincidence that they show the best episode of The Sopranos after the most disappointing
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After reading David Chases article thats up on DrudgeReport right now, I think he knows he made a mistake. According to his interview he felt this was the most entertaining ending. Huh? Is he high? So David Chases gift to us is to let our imaginations roam free inside that cafe?? So heres my ending: None of the people in the resturaunt were a threat. It was just another false build up to a story the sopranos never follows up on. MEadow gets pregnant, never does anything with her life but be a housewife to a mob husband. AJ fucks up his easy job, kills himself. Carm stays with Tony, but ends up an angry alcoholic only to die in a horrible car accident in her Porsche. Tony is eventually unceremoniously arrested and convicted of crimes.
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. . . [There are some scenes that] we all saw to which we can all collectively admit (not Borg-like, OK?). That's what happened at the end of "The Sopranos," fer sure.
Hey, as long as a TV series don't end like "St. Elsewhere," we can pretty much enjoy the ending. CAN I GET AN A-MAHENNN-AH! -
episode - Is Meadow shaved or not ? You know she's shaved, but I totally wanted confirmation.
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...that Meadow looked uncomfortably at the camera. Should've said "ran toward the camera (across the street) with an uncomfortable look on her face" -- and that was the last we saw of Meadow. Next shot : family (minus Meadow) at the table. Final shot : Tony looks up. Got it stored on the harddrive, watched it ten times now. I am, however, now starting to think that maybe Tony did get whacked... hence the sharp cut to black. Otherwise, why end it right there?
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i'm having to struggle to think of how to reassure you that i'm not being sarcastic and i've got nothing. i'll say this, it reminds me of something i would say if i was taking the opposite position, only slightly cleverer. but i'm still pretty convinced, even my mom described the same shot when i asked her about it this morning (she went to bed immediately afterward like an ass) and she thinks the opening theme song line is "woke up this morning with a shotgun in your hand" and that tony waking up with the automatic from bobby was somehow deeply symbolic (i didn't even point out to the ignorant sow that it looked nothing like a shotgun). if anyone could be completely unaffected, emotionally or otherwise, by the ending, it must be this zombie lady, she gives livia a run for her money.
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I agree that repeated viewings have sort of changed how I saw things and even tainted them. There were many outcomes suggested, most obviously that Tony is probably shot. When I looked again and again, no one in the diner looked that ominous to me and to be honest Tony didnt look as concerned as I thought, though it's still there to some extent. Bigger question for me is what the fuck is Tony doing out in public with members of his family in the first place. That soon after a major mafia purging and this idiot is meeting up for shits and giggles with the fam. No way, you stay in highly controlled environments for months if not years after that. Tony has got to know that the same elements that would agree Phil should go would think the same of him. Plus the way they did it in front of Phil's family like that. On priciple, someone has to take Tony out so that everyone left can start anew.
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yeh, that's quite different from what i'm talking about. a full-blown closeup, eyes just offcenter from yours, door and frame visible. for now, i think it's safe to say that we saw two different things and that the reasons for that will remain a mystery until mine and "my peoples'" (i don't know the possessive apostrophe rules, sue me) footage or screencaps surface, or until i'm committed or otherwise introduced into the world of mental health. but how will you know? HOW WILL YOU KNOW? do any of you know how to set up one of those 'web alert' things attention-starved teens used to use as a posthumous announcement of their suicide and how i could construct one to alert all of you if i am dragged away to the soft room. i'll keep looking and i'll understand perfectly if you have no desire to search for a screencap or clip you don't feel exists but i hope we get to the bottom of this soon. i'm kind of an expert on getting to the bottom. (paulie walnuts) OHHH!
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i really wish i could pop a forget-me-now and relive that diner scene, the tension was so achingly sharp, it was like a new drug i'd never tried before. knowing that, whether you're a meadowdweller or a tonywinner (start using these guys, i can't make them catch on by myself) you're just going to get that black shot at the end on repeated viewings completely changes the scene. not saying i didn't see what i saw, but i live for cowardly anonymous sniping, not petulant foot-stamping. i think there's a little bit of a mystery left, whether it was a glitch or a hoodwink (something i'm becoming less convinced of) i can't say. and i'm with you on the taking it easy for a while after something like that. i couldn't believe it. when my neighbor's apartment got raided by the raleigh, nc sheriff's office after a weed tipoff, i smashed my own bong in the toilet and attempted to flush it like a dope. me and my friends stayed inside for hours afterward in shaky paranoia, long after the cars had left. i guess tony's gotta be tony, and can't do that by hiding in a safehouse somewhere. unless that is what he does. i'll let it slide, that palpable tension for the last five minutes and much of the rest of the episode felt like i was in labor with a baby made of cocaine. can't imagine that experience being matched.
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talkback.A bunch of people WAAAAY over analyzing the most trivial things.Oh well,enjoy.It's the last one we'll probably ever have.
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Good perusals, above. Here’s my . . . further perusals:
Chase was never shy in this series in showing Tony getting shot; two cases in point: 1) when Uncle Jr. shot him; 2) when the assassins monikered (not my words, but, Chris M’s) Boys 2 Men tried to off Tony. Why wouldn’t Chase present Tony getting shot (3rd times the charm, we’d be talking right now) THIS time around? Doesn’t add up – folks get shot in “The Sopranos” universe and it is presented; no need to fudge the numbers this time.
At best # 1: everything about this point in “The Sopranos” universe has been shown; time to close the book now. No one (maybe ‘cept Chase – heck, we gave Lucas and his ability to license franchise out to Dark Horse and a book publishing label the same liberty) definitively knows what happened before the last episode or after the beginning of the fade to black of the last episode; At best # 2: opening for “The Sopranos” movie, you know? Might’ve not been as big as anyone expected, but, “The X-Files” was allowed to do make one (‘nother one coming down the chute . . . at some point?). Can be done likewise and the coffee can be put down: HBO deserves their shot at a # 1 hit of the week.
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The music actually points in the other direction - not death.
"the movie never ends, it goes on, and on, and on, and on and on...."
The people in the the restaruant are like the terrorism subplot. A redherring. There is nothing there to point to Tony being killed. The peopel in ther restaurant were suspicious only becuaes you thought they were.
Since when do hitmen sit down and leave fingerprints all over the place. They go in and get out. NY has NO reason to kill Tony. Theyve made peace and the NY crew finally realized theyre better off working together and getting paid than knocking each other off.
And no those arent the black guys from the attempt on Tony life from S1. Watch that episode again instead of relying on what you read online. One of them was killed in that episode and look at the other. Completely different person. Much younger than the guy we saw.
It simply points to anything can happen. Theyre there as a joke on us all. And the people saying Tony definitely died are buying into it.
It goes black and we dont know what happens next.
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"Good persuals, above"
". . . definitively knows what happened before the last episode or after the beginning of the fade to black of the last episode . . ."
should have read
". . . definitively knows what happened before the FIRST episode or after the beginning of the fade to black of the last episode . . ." ("first" was intended, not "last").
Thank you. -
Had Vito's kid, the one who took a shit in the shower, yeah he was taking a shit in the diner. And applying eyeliner.
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this ending is more like a cliffhanger than anything. how can they leave it a cliffhanger? smacktards! as much as i sort of dig the ending and the speculation... its a fucking cliffhanger and it sucks like that.
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Holy shit guys I see it!
Look at the lyrics:
Just a small town girl
Living in a lonely world
She took the midnight train going anywhere
Just a city boy
Born and raised in South Detroit
He took the midnight train going anywhere
If you watch it, it's like "Just a small town girl, Living in a lonely world" and he looks at her, and through the song you can see the look on his face. He's worn out, maybe even regrettful. Earlier in the episode he goes off and talks about how he was raised. He's questioning things, the toll of the NY NJ war, uncle Junior, Silvio in the hospital etc, all this drama has come to a head. Not to mention the probable court case against him. He's acting super paranoid, look at his reaction when the girl brings the onion rings, he's jumpy.
He knows he's a piece of shit, at that table, after everything, after Christopher, he knows.
This episode pumped you up for those last 4-5 mins. The terrorist thing, as Meadow runs to the door we hear a plane go over and see a car that looks like it just missed her, all props to make us feel this. The shifty guy at the counter, looks around, as people do anywhere. The black guys walking in are all about that buffet, they don't look at Tony and he doesn't even notice them. I too was thinking "the guy with the gf is gonna rob the place and tony will get shot", when the went to the bathroom...OH SHIT TONYS GONNA GET POPPED. IT'S AN FBI AGENT!!! OMG!
It's pretty obvious in his face that he knew what he was and where he is going. He feels bad about Carm, this "city boy", because he knows it will hurt his family. -
...in my opinion. I think it works better to leave it as such : Tony's either dead (still not totally sure, but partially convinced) or facing real jail time. Leaving the family (and us) with a sense of dread, which is what his lifestyle has produced -- constant dread. No matter what tiny glimmers of hope exist for the family members, it's mostly bad news. I'd rather leave it there than watch some boring-ass trial and see him locked up. Why bother showing it when it's already implied? Like AJ said, remember the good times...(and I'll add) cuz they're about to end.
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Were you watching the HD version? I'm one of the "crazies" who thinks they saw Meadow come through the door. I want someone to post proof of this just so I can shake the feeling that I saw it.
Comcast has not yet posted the HD version on On Demand. I was watching the HD feed last night when both my gf and I thought we saw it. So all the other crazies...what were you watching? I know these posts are annoying, but this has been bothering me since last night because I'm pretty sure of what I saw, but I'm willing to admit maybe my mind jumbled the shots.
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His limo blew up. ;) What a way for him to have his character finally make a exit.
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But he is a lunatic. Get a life and put the hash pipe down.
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..is the reason I can't shake this. When Aspercreme ran those ads that said "You bet your sweet Aspercreme!", I saw them twice and then never again, and thought I was going insane. Turned out, that really was their ad campaign, but it got pulled super quick. Do a search on YouTube for that gem.
If that's possible, then this is easily possible as well. -
Spoiler.
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"for the last five minutes and much of the rest of the episode felt like i was in labor with a baby made of cocaine. can't imagine that experience being matched." and "the tension was so achingly sharp, it was like a new drug i'd never tried before" -antilifeequator
STOP SMOKING CRACK. -
Is of him, happily, ordering food with his family. Thats it . Thats how it ends. Anything else is specualtion. You cant prove he got shot. The meaning of the song is,Dont stop believing in the happy american family.Thats what he wants and at that moment thats what he has. His son seems to be out of his funk and he's finally proud of his daughter career choice. We had to see him pay for his crimes to get closure. We'll see that in the movie.
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and we both swear the final shot was of meadow, the way I described in the post above.
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Saw only the Tony ending.
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We got whacked, The camera perspective, The fan reaction, The convo on the boat that said "When it happens it just goes black and nothing". We saw through tony's eyes the man at the counter and again his eyes with the two black doods that came in but when it happend it was US that was looking at tony and BANG! we got it. Thats just my opinion.
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The shady guy that went to the bath? Nick Leotardo. Phil's cousin. The kids having dinner? The same kids who were in the hobby store when Bobby was whacked. It's in the credits. Not sure if anyone noticed that.
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"It's in the credits" -- no, it's not. Let's all stop this rumor here.
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The credits show the guy who went to the bathroom as 'Man in a Member's Only Jacket.' Not Nick Leotardo. Earlier in today's posts all the characters in the diner are covered. None are related to Leotardo, or the boys from the Train store.
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There isn't. I watched the HD version live last night, last shot is of Tony looking up at the door. I watched it again in non-HD OnDemand, last shot is of Tony looking up at the door. Even if Chase could convince HBO to convince Comcast that there was a need to show two separate versions on two different coasts -- with both differing by only a few frames -- I'm pretty damn sure that the logistics of having OnDemand be programmed to support this, and HBO East vs. HBO West, and DirectTV, and so on, would be technologically impossible. NO ONE saw any other version than "Tony looks up, cut to black". That said, second time rewatching there's definitely a lot less suspicious activity going on than I thought the first time. Dead or no the point is definitely about the paranoia in which Tony has lived and may continue to live his life. I love it. Hokey as it may be, this is the Mona Lisa smile of our age.
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Can anyone confirm that what Tony was wearing when he walked in the restaurant was different than what he was wearing when seated????
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Don't tell me what I did or didn't see. I can speak for myself and have.
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In the version I saw last night, the car passing Meadow came from the right. In the replay tonight, the car came from the left.
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the credits did not contain this incredible urban myth of a revolving cast of characters not seen in a while (akin to Larry David's fork-stealing sandwich board shame in whatever the fuck season that was where they all judged him publicly for the finale) but they did take to finally crediting the show's inanimate cast, John Gotti's poster as itself, Steven van Zandt's enlarged full-body photograph as Cardboard Cutout of Silvio, and Bert (of Bert and Ernie, you may have seen them bathing one another onstage at Sesame Street live as a child) as Christopher. I am still firm in my resolve of what I solve, but as Mr. Gandolfini said to the Distinguished Dean of the Actor's Studio Drama School in response to his show defaming Italian Americans, "You have to be able to poke fun at yourself." In that spirit, I'll stop smoking crack the moment I stop smoking cock. And if using drugs is some kind of crime, then I guess that makes me a criminal.
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I thought that was a little strange. The cut was very strange too. He walked in the door looked around the restaurant and then there was a wide shot of Tony sitting at the table, almost like he was seeing himself.
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If you watch the episode again, there was another quick jump/cut earlier in the episode. I think it was when Tony showed up at the safehouse
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said firm in my resolve of what i solve. please, anyone remotely urban, don't think of this as a disrespectful dig at hip hop, i have loads of black friends, and whatever else you need to hear to establish my street cred. i meant to say saw. i bagged and alphabetized 23 longboxes today, have mercy.
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"Chase Whacked us!(the viewer)I'm going to come to your house spoon out your eye and skull fuck your brains.Stop reading other peoples shit on other boards and regurgitating it here like its your own original thought.Then after that ,go fuck your mother.
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THAT was how The Sopranos should have ended!!!!
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..had a bad case of the runs in a season two episode.
In any case, the debate over Tony dead/Tony alive is separate from the Meadow/no Meadow issue. Simply put, nobody has any proof of this mysterious Meadow shot, nor the "reveals" in the credits. Both urban myths which will die out in a few days.
Still frustrating though. Seriously Meadow Believers -- there wouldn't even be any REASON for two different versions. Really, what would be the point? A quick shot of Meadow wouldn't even change anything! And why the hell would the very last shot of the entire show be Meadow?!? It's all Tony, baby. -
I should say first that I saw Tony as my final image at the end of the finale. I do not believe Tony was whacked. I believe someone else was whacked. Every viewer. I don't mean that as a "cuz we were all screwed out of a good ending" joke. If you notice, the ending is primarily in Tony's POV. Except for the last shot when you are watching Tony. If you saw Meadow as your final image, I can understand your take, but I saw Tony. If I had seen Meadow I would feel that was the last thing Tony had seen. Instead, I saw Tony. And the screen went black.
I didn't hear anything. Silence. I believe Chase gave the illusion that the viewer was whacked after the tense 5 minutes the viewer had gone through. That is my take anyway. Also, I wouldn't be surprised that there were as many as 5 alternate endings to this finale. -
Meadow was second to last.Her walkin in from outside-cut to Tony ,who looks up as he hears the doorbell dealy ding-Cut to black
Whats the problem? -
Damn that was good. There are no multiple cuts, no definite conclusions. No matter what happens, there is no happy ending. But dammit if Tony was going to stop believing. I've seen worse and better finales but don't try to convince me that wasn't a damn fine episode and a worthy capper of the series.
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It is not an urban legend. The motherfucking car in the Tony version is coming from the LEFT side while it's coming from the RIGHT in the Meadow version. Can anybody prove that they saw the Tony version? We're supposed to accept that the Tony version really happened and that the Meadow version we saw was just a hallucination? Prove YOUR ending then we'll fucking talk!!!! Works both ways.
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What a great idea. Nikki Finke is a genius. That way, next time HBO has someone who creates for them and their subscribers the greatest show ever produced for television HBO can make sure they don't have total artistic control! You people who are canceling HBO are brilliant. Send a message. Chris Albrecht should have controlled the content of The Sopranos, or maybe the head of all of AOL Time Warner. Anyone but that hack David Chase. The only thing he ever did for the world is create the absolute best program ever produced for television. I'm glad he gave the show an ending that would piss off so many people. The people who are pissed off by it got exactly the ending they deserve. Me, I'll be canceling HBO because Entourage sucks. Because Deadwood sucked. Because David Milch's new show sucks, and all his future shows will suck. Because Six Feet Under sucked and it's last episode really sucked. Because live concerts of Dane Cook suck. Because the movies I didn't see in the theatre or on DVD probably sucked, and I probably won't watch them on HBO either. And because Lucky Louie got canceled, and as good as Bill Maher is he's not worth the monthly cost for HBO. Glad you're all so upset. Got a tip that might cheer you up. Pull out your Arli$$ DVDs and watch that final Arli$$ episode again. It'll probably be more to your taste. I heard Chris Albrecht reigned in that maverick arist Robert Wuhl at the request of that genius Nikki Finke.
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in comment_1559327 (The Bell Tolls...).
It's true that the ending is, on the surface, entirely ambiguous, and yet the reading that makes infinitely more sense is the one where Tony is whacked. Cut to black with silence has a perfect rationale in that reading; if Tony's not whacked, it's arbitrary and intrusive.
Incidentally, Pan's Labyrinth was equally ambiguous, with the deciding factor being that the movie is intolerable and depressing if the fantasy world is just in the kid's imagination, but a classic fairy tale if the world is real. So, again, there is only one ending that makes sense even though there's nothing on the screen itself to resolve the ambiguity--what resolves the ambiguity is what makes dramatic and moral sense. -
I'll say this once and only once...IT'S ONLY A TELEVISION SHOW, A WORK OF FICTION, A PIECE OF ENTERTAINMENT...NOTHING MORE!
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...the kids and man at the toy shop are not the same as the ones in the diner. The man in the toy shop is bald, the man in the diner has a full head of gray hair. The guy who went to the bathroom has NEVER been in the Sopranos before. He's a pizza store owner who was cast just for this epsiode. There's a whole article about it here -- http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-06092007-1360360.html
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Nuh uh.
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yeah-huh!
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Nope
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if you're referring to me using the term 'urban legend' earlier, i was in no way directing it at your post. i believe you that there was a divergence from the original scene, and i'm a total believer in the meadow shot. i feel a little strange about my remarks regarding it approaching religious fervor, but lack of sleep will do strange things. i was rell-rested when i saw the episode the first time, however, and have not been swayed by reports of the tony closer. i am a little embarrassed to say that i am giving a little consideration to chase having learned chaos magic at the teat of grant morrison and allowing viewers to see what they wanted, though i can't imagine why it would be split by coasts. this is getting a bit strange. i will not start using "don't stop believing", i will not start using "don't stop believing as a mantra". i wouldn't turn down a spoonfeeding from chase right now, for honest.
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How is it it's already On Demand where you live? It hasn't gone on demand in my area yet, I can only see it on straight replays on HBO. Further proof that every area receives the signal differently.
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Yeah, I'm willing to entertain the idea of chaos magic. Just explain it a little more. Isn't that what the rock band Tool does to add layers of even more sophistication to their music?
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almost instantly since these final episodes started. The finale was available here just a few minutes after it aired. Most of the eps have been going up Monday morning, whereas all other shows and movies don't typically appear until Tuesday afternoon for me.
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I was referring to d11 who so pompously wrote off what we know we saw, as if he is the final authority on how digital cable is broadcast.
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The diner is the end of Tony's life as he knows it. There are several possibilities: Tony gets whacked. Tony gets arrested. Meadow is pregnant and will quit school. Meadow comes in and not only is Tony taking the fall for Carlo, but Meadow found out he's been tied to the illegal dumping. AJ goes down the same fucktard path as Christopher with Tony's depression to boot. All of these things could have happened, or they could have eaten their dinner and gone home, and tomorrow morning, it starts again. However, with the FBI, Carlo, and the Jersey dumping case, Tony can't get out of major jail time...which means he'll end up like Phil. Or he survives only to end up a vegetable like Silvio or an invalid like Junior. He's even trying to bullshit shrinks again with his tales of a "poor me" upbringing (and boy did Carmela hate hearing that shit come out all over again.) Tony's "LIFE" is over, whether he continues breathing or not and Meadow's arrival marks the very last second that Tony's life is anywhere near what he hopes it can be. He's got it ALMOST together...he never stopped believing. But it's a false hope. The Sopranos are fucked and there's no point in depicting either yet ANOTHER mob hit or ANOTHER gangster goes up the river and there's certainly no point in bullshitting the audience into believing everything will be fine. Even Tony is starting to wake up to that fact and the bubble is definitely about to burst. A Sopranos movie is rendered totally pointless by this ending and there's no other way it could have happened other than a fairy tale copout bullshit happy ending or a tired rehash of a million mob stories of the past. Thank God. And Paulie, by the way, just got guilted into his untimely downfall as well. Just ask the cat.
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I'm getting email asking what I thought. In an effort to stem this tide:
a) I loved it, as I did the prior episode.
b) I think Tony took one in the head, because death is darkness and silence, and Tony said he wouldn't see it coming. Meadow, A.J. and Carmella went down too, since they were all witnesses. -
Oh, don't get me wrong. It promises that the program I have just seen will be on demand the following day, but since Season 6B started, it hasn't held to that. It's usually a week and a half later it goes on demand here in my area. And I'm not fucking around here. If that is so drastically different here, what else is purely a judgment call of the region?
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Has anyone taken a moment to contemplate the lyrics to the Door's "When the Music's Over" which the girls were dancing to at the Bing?
It speaks for itself:
When the music's over
When the music's over, yeah
When the music's over
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights, yeah
When the music's over
When the music's over
When the music's over
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights
For the music is your special friend
Dance on fire as it intends
Music is your only friend
Until the end
Until the end
Until the end
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
The face in the mirror won't stop
The girl in the window won't drop
A feast of friends
"Alive!" she cried
Waitin' for me
Outside!
Before I sink
Into the big sleep
I want to hear
I want to hear
The scream of the butterfly
Come back, baby
Back into my arm
We're gettin' tired of hangin' around
Waitin' around with our heads to the ground
I hear a very gentle sound
Very near yet very far
Very soft, yeah, very clear
Come today, come today
What have they done to the earth?
What have they done to our fair sister?
Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her
Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn
And tied her with fences and dragged her down
I hear a very gentle sound
With your ear down to the ground
We want the world and we want it...
We want the world and we want it...
Now
Now?
Now!
Persian night, babe
See the light, babe
Save us!
Jesus!
Save us!
So when the music's over
When the music's over, yeah
When the music's over
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights
Well the music is your special friend
Dance on fire as it intends
Music is your only friend
Until the end
Until the end
Until the end!
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but as much as I like Grant Morrison's work, he loses me a little sometimes. I know that he uses methods such as forming the letters that spell out something you desire into a magical-looking (his words) symbol, then doing something to charge the sigil, something that clears the mind for just a second, like masturbating to the point of release. He even encouraged a global wank-a-thon (again, his words, I think) amongst fans of his Invisibles book to help boost its sales. I don't know how much you know about comics and the people who write them, but Alan Moore practices chaos magic as well. One important element in chaos magic is the construction of one's own reality, and the ability to let fiction become a legitimate part of our reality and help shape it. When Grant says that he has met and conversed with comic book characters, some of them his own creations, he's not being pretentious. At least, I don't think he is. I know that it's very real to him. I began to start interpreting more meaning from things in my life that I would have thrown away as coincidence before I started looking just a little into the philosophy Grant instills in some of his more personal work. I'm sure it's nonsense to most, but I don't have religion and I have to look for things bigger than myself where I can find them. I was actually reminded a lot of some of Morrison's existential ideas during the whole Kevin Finnerty thing, with Tony becoming a player in a fiction of his own creation, the quote about going about in pity for oneself that couldn't be pinned to anyone. Tony realizing after the peyote trip that there are other things, maybe other worlds all around us that we can't see under normal circumstances. Hard to explain to someone who has never had a hallucinogenic experience that felt like all kinds of new knowledge and feeling was pushed in from outside. Oh yeh, a lot of Grant's chaos magic came about from abusing hallucinogens for, according to him, every single day of the 1990's decade. I really do wonder if some of us were shown Meadow, others Tony, for a reason. Most of us are loathe to stop believing. Let the grand experiment begin!
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Your take on what happens after the soon-to-be legendary
fade to black on THE SOPRANOS series, is more interesting than mine, and so it
is true that my take is better than yours.
To me, it was one of the best moments I've ever experienced while
watching TV. I thought my DVR had missed the end of
the series until the credits rolled, just like a to of
people did, and I love how this new technology added a dimension of suspense,
and shock... I had to replay the entire song (one of my childhood favorites),
and... well, since I started typing, the ending has
become legend. -
I've read what seems like a million different thoughts on this episode, and I think MCVamp's take might be the best yet. It ended right there because it will never, ever be this good for Tony again. When she's in that doorway, the family's all there, he's happy to see her, but once Meadow sits down, she'll probably be bitching about something (maybe she's even pregnant) or whatever, and it's all going downhill from there- indictments, a finished crew, shrinking envelopes, no Melfi to crawl back to.
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You're remembering it wrong. It was when Janice visited Uncle June that the comment about the Ambassador was made. That's why you didn't see it in the scene with Tony this time around.
I'm not buying a single word of this alternate ending nonsense. Your DVR doesn't just randomly delete shots when you go back to look. HBO didn't do some magic trick to you on purpose. You just got the sequence of a few shots confused as you remembered them, folks. Seriously. -
I just think it was an existential, life goes on, Tony's endless crap/we could on forever with stuff...this is as good a place as any stop
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I just think it was an existential, life goes on, Tony's endless crap/we could on forever with stuff...this is as good a place as any to stop
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Is there some Soprano gene that causes them to eat onion rings without ketchup? Seriously, I watched the last scene several times and not one of them had ketchup on their onion ring. Must have been some damn good onion rings.
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Eat em like communion wafers! Fathah, she's such a good Catholic...she loves the taste o' communion wafers...
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I think there's been more than enough corroboration on the alternate ending 'nonsense' by this point that you'd have to admit there's something to it. A quarter of the talkbackers on here didn't experience a collective hallucination, 'folk'. Seriously.
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http://tinyurl.com/2jooyc
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This theory is from someone else, but I checked episode 20 -- it's all true!!!
"Tony falls asleep last week in a barren room. No sheets on bed, no alrms clock, nothing. When he apparently wakes up, there are sheets on bed, a mirror, an alarm clock with music going off. None of that was in the end of last week's show. Tony dreams the whole last episode. A.J getting settled, Phil going down and agent harris cheering for him, Meadow becoming a lawyer and getting married. In the end, he sees himself sitting at the table. He is dreaming of having dinner with his family. Its ends when tony wakes up from his great dream. When A.J. says during the episode, "you are all living in a dream", that is a clue. sheets on bed, A.J's comment, and tony seeing himself at the end are all clues that the show really ended last week. This weeks episode was all a dream." -
getting into this steadfast declaration of what others did and did not see. I'll be feeling pretty keen once we get our fucking evidence. We have until the DVD release at the latest, I guess. I don't buy those expensive, shiny Sopranos sets, been waiting to dupe some chick into marrying me after the Full Series Box Set is released so we can register for it. Actually, I would enthusiastically turn a trick for the burly yellowshirt that always greets me from the entrance podium of my local Best Buy on S6's release date if it will spell a little comeuppance for those of you who didn't have a chance to stop believing, due to the fact that you never started. RealMoriarty, care for a wager with a deadline of the DVD release dates, hmm? Change the old handle to FakeMoriarty might you? FakeHolmes? I work in a comic shop, maybe I could offer up one of those new DC Ame-Comi statues if they're to your fancy. They're pretty sweet. Blud, my other compatriots, let's keep each other fresh on our details lest they fade with time. Meadow framed in the doorway, eyes slightly raised and to the left, mouth open just a tad bit, then the big dark? Correct me if I'm wrong, I need the opinions of others who saw the legit ending. Let's 'reinforce' one anothers's (again, I'm horrible at possessive apostrophe shit) mania and wait for the day these Tonyglancers eat a mouth full of Heckyl and Jeckyl (that reference is correct, they're cartoon crows, no?)
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Here's the thing. I'm not jumping on some crazy conspiracy theory board. I specifically signed up here to AICN to defend the people who are being labelled crazy or outright delusional because they saw the same ending I did. I was incredulous when I saw that the majority of the country got an extra few seconds and wondered why on earth the broadcasters would show those extra three seconds but cut it off to us 2 dozen talkbackers. Has to be something regional. And I am telling you that in the Tony ending I saw in the replay, the car was coming much slower past Meadow and from the left. In the one last night, it was coming from the right and it looked like it was about to hit Meadow. I was high on oxycodone, yes, but someone else posted here before I even signed up about how they used a camera lens to make it look like Meadow was to become roadkill. I was going to try and find the two endings matched up on youtube, but sadly, they've already been removed due to 'copyright violations'.
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this ENTIRE season has been about how downhill and shitty Tony's life has been. As well as AJ and Carmela, and even Meadow, to a lesser extent. Now, all of a sudden everyone's life is great?? It's a dream! Tony got killed while asleep and dreaming in the safehouse!!!
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It's a dream, people!
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seriously, the show just pulled a classic Beatles-style "oh let's just end it here Paul, and they'll read all sorts of bollocks into it" There ain't no fuckn' alternate ending, just like Ozzy didn't say "get the gun" or Lucas didn't really have all nine movies written out back in the 70's, or there isn't a six-hour Lynch-cut of Dune sitting in a Universal vault somewhere. I didn't change the channel btw, nothing happened. Hey, the ending to Eyes Wide Shut was a bit of shock too, but...
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Choppy editing, storylines that do not connect with earlier older material, underutilization of many series long characters (Pauly), Humor that seems sloppily written (Carmella complaining about running over children?), AJ, and the last scene. Sorry, I still dont see the last scenes "Brilliance" "Genius" or "Fitting end". What I see is yet another plotline created within 3 minutes that could go somewhere but obviously does not. People will argue what the blackout means. I think it means jack shit. Sure, use your imagination. I am really surprised there are a few suckers out their that believe this was a fitting end. On Tuesday David Chases interview will be released and I'm eager to listen to what he has to say. But this was not entertaining. It was a let down.
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1) Still no Episode 86 On Demand where I live, although it's ready to show everywhere else.
Antilife, is it showing on demand yet where you are located? If not, that could be a notable pattern of 'evidence' the naysayers are so hungry for.
2) The trailer for the final nine episodes randomly followed the end of On Demand episodes of 6a back in March. Randomly, as in different for everyone. Which means that we didn't all watch the trailers following a specific episode.
3) The car came from the right first time I saw it. Antilife, anyone else who saw the Meadow ending, can you confirm that the car came from the right the first time and she appeared to be in danger of getting hit for a split second?
4) In the end, it really doesn't matter whether it ended on Meadow's face or Tony's face, other than for PRINCIPLE. I don't make a habit of lying or hallucinating, even if I'm under the influence of something. What I see is what I see, most of the time. It's the fact that so many of you are blatantly telling me and many others that we made a mistake, are lying or being foolish that has this debate raging on. -
With a show that's been a phenomenon like this one has, and with so many people complaining that they feel cheated by the ending already, I do feel pretty strongly about the fact that different people seem to have been presented different things. I don't think that it was some huge ploy or hoax really, that was pretentiousness (and dextroamphetamine) talking. It's no longer a matter of interpretation when we were given two different things to interpret. I wonder if that dark space before the credits should have contained another 5 seconds or so of footage and they just played it off as some wink-wink ending to salvage the embarrassment of having actually botched one of the most important broadcasts ever. With the three alternate endings we have heard rumored and all assume will be included on the DVD release, I suppose that in this scenario, they would think, big fucking deal, they can always plunk down 90 bucks to see the real ending after the fact. Let's forget that a lot of people who kept HBO in the periods between seasons and watched the same fucking movies repeated daily, with the Saturday night guarantee becoming a sad joke. This weekend it's Ice Age: The Meltdown. Too bad I was smart enough to make my girlfriends use birth control in high school or I could cuddle up with my bastard spawn and drink myself into a stupor watching it. I'm not saying this is definitely what happened, but it's at least a possibility and I wish that those of you who think we're the types who would guzzle the Kool-Aid if everyone else convinced us that Christ had just come down and suggested it would consider what we're saying before just writing it off. It's not just a dozen talkbackers. Go to some unrelated boards. It's a strange hoax to try and pull on a ridiculous premise that you could somehow induce mass hysteria for people who wanted to see Meadow in that doorway as a stronger confirmation of the Soprano patriarch getting one from his blind spot. This could have some very real ramifications, and it really happened.
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9pm East Coast Comcast HD - Meadow ending. I know what I saw. We discussed the fact that Med was the last thing Tony saw because it was from his POV. And I couldnt care less if you dont believe me.
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The onion rings represent eternity. These suspicious characters represent tony paranoia as well as harken back to Godfather 1. The lyrics represent the story. The cut to black is where we as the audience get to fill in the blank. OK, this is what Chase has set us up with. Now, is this a good finale or not? I'm sorry but this is really stretching it. I mean, c'mon guys. I loved the show too. But it, like everything else had flaws and the final scene is representative of the shows decline since the first 3 seasons.
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my dinky little hick town (Fort Mill, SC - please don't judge me, I despise nearly every brother/sister breed I see around here and I live 10 minutes from Charlotte where I work and spend most of my time) doesn't offer OnDemand for I don't fucking know why. We do have DVR though and here is how it went: My dad loves to have popcorn cooked in olive oil in a real popper the Italian way while we watch TV so we paused DVR at the very beginning of the recap and I spent 10 minutes making his popcorn. We waited another 2 for my mom to get off the phone with her twin. I had to pause a couple times to explain what was said during the garage scene and another part, but we were only a few minutes behind. I distinctly remember a car passing right the fuck behind Mead, and the tension of the parking scene, not knowing if she was going to be shot up, wrecked into, etc. I remember the car passing just behind her with a whoosh, but I'm bad with left/right, couldn't tell the apart on instinct until high school (which I'm sure will call the credibility of eyesight into question on here). On repeat it shows it coming from our left, her right but it also, of course, shows Tony at the end as well. Though my digital guide said the episode was running 5 minutes over that night, I set it to go twenty over so as not to get a repeat of the Idol fiasco. What happens when you are watching a show a little bit behind schedule with our TimeWarner DVR box is that when the show that you're watching ends recording, it bumps you off into a dark screen and you have to hit the "List" button, hit play again, and it will pick up at the exact same spot. With that shot of Meadow, coming in the door, which I am one hundred percent on, I got the black screen. Assuming it was the record, stop cycle, I paused, went to the list, hit play and saw credits. I was horrified because I knew I would have to rewind and see the big reveal in reverse, the tension having already been spoiled by the technical snafu. I played all the way from the goddamn beginning up until the guy on the stool walks toward the bathroom and we rewatched the scene from there. I am not as observant as you and didn't notice the change in the car's approach, but I kind of dismissed it having already seen it. What blew me away was the absence of the Meadow shot. I thought something was wrong again. I explained to my dad that the ending was similar to Angel, which he used to watch with me, too. He has MS and takes a lot of heavy dope (20mg of Methadone a day for pain) and didn't really catch on. My mom's just kind of slow. Nevertheless, when I asked her about it yesterday morning, she distinctly remembered Meadow entering the door. My mom is far too mundane to experience anything as exotic as mass hysteria. Still, I couldn't explain the lack of the Meadow shot, and even though I put two and two together with the Bobby/Tony exchange in the boat and that final scene, the impact was much different for me with the ending of Tony's face, because it made a lot more sense for his senses to terminate from HIS POINT OF VIEW, Meadow coming in the door, the scene I saw the first time I watched. I don't have proof, I don't have any explanations save for those I already offered, a slip of a few frames from the deleted scenes, though that would require incredible slopiness I would imagine. I came on here to try and see if other people experienced the same thing. I was hoping to be met with people who could identify with my frustration and confusion and I'm pleased that a few of you guys know what I'm talking about. I don't think I'm Patient Zero, bringer of mass hysteria or anything, but I was one of the early ones discussing it.
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A bloodbath? An ignominious arrest in front of his family? One of the kids gets it for something completely unrelated like AJ's idiot wannabe friends? The entire episode tells us what's going to happen...and none of the possible outcomes is a happy one. Either it goes on and on and on or it ends right there but either way, Tony is fucked. When Tony yells "I GET IT" in the desert, he's lying to himself. It's when he's raking up the leaves that he really gets it, looking into the same sun...he's fucked. He dug his own hole and now he's going to lie in it, and probably his family too. But he presses on, an American Anti-Hero who won't stop believing--because he won't stop living the lie til it hits him in the face or splatters all over his wife's blouse. That's where the show "ends."
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but I fucking love Falco, Iler, and Gandolfini eating those onion rings. Whoever said before that they place them in their mouths just like communion that was a good call. But what is great is their reaction shots. Carmela examines it briefly then daintily places it in her mouth with her head turned to the side, a little shame implied for her indulging in a guilty pleasure like friend, breaded onions. AJ follows the ring as he drops it onto his tongue, his eyes widen with pleasure as the taste first races over his tastebuds then he chews enthusiastically with his mouth slightly ajar between chomps, still a chubby, little shit inside even if he's slimmed up and become a little handsomer outside. Ton' plops that fucker right on in, pauses slightly with his hand still in the self-feeding position, a lift of the eyebrows like that of a wine aficionado appreciating a fine glass and a subtle little dip of the head as he nods in appreciation. For all their fucking ziti and Tony eating cold cuts right out of the butcher paper over the years (like any real Italian), they indulge in this toxic, little American treat like fish to water.
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I Don't need a bloodbath. If anything Phils death was bland and unnecessary. Just watch the finale to SFU and I don't think the two are anywhere near the same level. My prediction was that Tony would reign triumphant in the war with NY and his family would be fine. The last two episodes were poorly written and poorly executed. Thats all I am saying. For a show that basically created the term "Water cooler show" the end was very unfitting. The aftermath of the death of Christopher was extremely unfitting. I think many things fell apart here, even on the technical side which is a first for the Sopranos. How does the beginning of season 6 tie in with the finale? Kevin Finnerty? Remember that? You could watch 'Days of Our Lives" and find just as much ambiguity that you could label genius. It was an awkward and unfitting end.
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But at the same time, as Chase said "Tony is a criminal." And we saw the result. He had one...ONE...friend left alive in Paulie. So of course, he guilts Paulie into the job that Paulie himself says is a ticket to an early grave. Tony sees the sad ruins of his dead friends' wives and forsees Carmela's inevitable fate. AJ is fully dependent on him and will collapse into self-pity and stupidity without his father's prodding. Meadow has promise, but the life Tony chose is going to fuck her in the end one way or another. As much as we love or hate Tony, we are reminded that this is a lying, murdering, criminal piece of shit. And while he is a human being with thoughts and feelings, he is subject to fate (within the confines of Chase's reality) and he will reap what he sows whether it's in the form of a quick bloody gunshot like Phil or a pathetic, sodden decline like Junior...or even worse, like Silvio, between life and death. Tony is dead, and he deserves it. The question of how or when is irrelevant. The question is WHY? The answer lies in six seasons worth of episodes depicting Tony paving his own road to Hell.
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this ending is causing a far greater stir than any big two-hour extravaganza with Tony getting whacked/going to jail or some massive bloodbath ever would have. Just look at this TB. It's a fitting end IMO. The show has always been understated. There's always been a feeling of "normal" or even routine if you will. Fitting end... totally predictable, yet totally un-predictable at the same time. Shocking in it's utter lack of shock-value. If they had done what you wanted you'd all be bitching about how obvious it was. I might be off here, but I dug it. A nice Kubrickian fuck you to audience expectations.
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"Shocking in it's utter lack of shock-value." :D Yeah, I guess if this was Chases master plan, he succeeded brilliantly. I wonder then what he was thinking during the first 3 seasons? Y'know when the stories intertwined, the foreshadowing meant something, and there was resolution to most plotlines.
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that the guy who went to the bathroom was gonna come out the bathroom and kill tony and/or his family members and those two random black dudes they showed for no reason were with that guy and they were gonna block the door(?) and help murder them. this is what you get with a ending like this. enormous backlash and shitty theories. lol i never watched the show anyway (never had cable) but even i watched the last episode.
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Basically, Butchie changed his mind. Sure, he killed Tony's Brother in law, probably killed Tony's best friend... but he suddenly changed his mind and went to go meet with Tony...... OK guys, explain that one as the brilliance of David Chase! I dare you! It makes no sense! He turned on Phil because suddenly he realized Phil was in it for himself!?!?!? BAD WRITING PURE AND SIMPLE!
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to see Finn get raped by Zombie Vito. It happened but they just didn't have time to put it in.
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Quote: "Nobody is even talking about it". And yet, here you STILL are. Tit.
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Youre right, I loved this show. But the quote you use, it was in the context of my coworkers. Tit.
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Quote: "What a crock of shit this ending was. I don't even know what to say. Why am I even talking about this show anymore?!?!". That's in the context of yourself. Yet still you're here. Tit.
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Tits.
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I watched the show again last night with a clear head, and I have to say the blackout is a cheap stunt, and I feel panning away from the family wouldn't have been as shocking, but better in the long term.
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Fact.
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Jun 12, 2007 5:46:55 AM CDT
the worst ending since monster-a-gogo
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
and monster-a-gogo is the worst movie EVER
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Jun 12, 2007 6:09:30 AM CDT
WOW im reading alot of these comments for the 1st time
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
VanGoghX and OGREISHERE's onion ring comments have me laughing my fuckin ass off lol
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I just saw it as a quick edit from him opening the diner door.
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One other note is that through both the first and second halves of Season 6, Chase has been playing up the wind in the trees as some kind of ominous omen... I've always thought symbolizing death. When Tony was in his coma and came up on the house with all his dead relatives, the wind was blowing like mad. When they showed them all attending Bobby's funeral on TV in the finale, the wind was blowing like mad. Sitting out by the lake in the first episode of the second half? Wind blowing like mad, symbolizing death all around Tony. Yet in the finale, *just* before the end, Tony's raking leaves around the pool, Carm comes out and tells him she'll meet up with him, and he looks up and around and there's no wind blowing. And he smiles a little. One more point of contention, yeah, but this one would lead to the idea that Tony's either already dead by then, or that death is no longer in his near future.
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At first viewing, it seemed like he was but I watched it again and agree with you- it was a quick edit.
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Requiring everything to be gift wrapped, I mean. Most other audiences are capable of engaging their brains when watching TV and films. Listen to most people here bitching and moaning "Oh we've been stabbed in the back. Chase owed me personally, and he's cheated me. He's a hack. Wah wah wah. OMFG teh ending sucked, I'm cancelling my subscription to HBO." What a bunch of whining little bitches. So, you've been made to use your brains and, perish the thought, your imagination. Poor little darlings. Why don't you fuck off and watch something less challenging. The Sopranos has never been predictable. So Chase shoots an ambiguous ending. So fucking what. Would you rather he took the predictable Tony gets killed/arrested/becomes King Of New York ending? All of those endings, while satisfying the children here, would have been absolutely bullshit, and anyone who truly gets the Sopranos knows I'm right. Chase never made a moral judgement on T the whole way through. Here's a man who is thoroughly despicable in many ways, yet he's never been judged. It would have been an absolute betrayal of the entire series if right at the end Chase said "look... Tony's been killed/arrested. Crime doesn't pay. Don't be a bad person". That would have been the biggest cop out imaginable. So grow up, or fuck off and watch Las Vegas. That's probably more your style.
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Jun 12, 2007 8:36:15 AM CDT
it has nothing to do with being american
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
fuckin fag it. suck your moms fat hairy clit stupid ass bitch.
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Life goes on, we don't get closure on everything. Interpret it any way you want, Chase set up a lot of paranoia in those last few minutes and it ends with Meadow walking into the diner.
Nobody got whacked,it ended with the family having dinner together.
And this show has always been about the Soprano family rather than the Sporano mob -
Well said, Fenton. These are the some tools who constantly complained every season about "nothing happening". If you want gunfights and bullshit killings, go watch 24. Sopranos is a deep examination of American life and family, and like any great art, is open to interpretation. As tough as it is to not constantly be told what to think, try doing it yourself for once.
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Yea NY kills Phil, make peace with Tony, then kill him. Idiots.Where you peopel watching the episode at all? When Butch was going to suggest to Phil to reach out and make peace with Tony. Phil says no and they betray him. They finally realized its better to keep the peace and get paid. They have no reason to kill Tony. For Tony its a happy ending. The NY thing is resolved. Carmine Jr, the moron is in control of NY. Hes someone Tony can manipulate. It was a guy in a jacket not Nicki Leotardo(watch the credits). Those were 2 blacks guys not the guys who tried to kill him from when Junior pu the hit on him(one of them is dead anyways assholes).Really do you even get how stupid that sounds? You guys are giving Chase too much credit. The story just stops. Thats it! And anything afterwards is complete speculation and talking out of your ass.
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I still have not seen it show up on comcast yet. I don't know whether the scene occurred before the blackout, or just before Tony looks up, but I know what I saw: Meadow coming in the door of the diner. I think it was the HD feed, personally, that had the extra seconds of footage. Call me crazy, maybe my gf and I were breathing in CO2 or something, but we both know what we saw. We can't all have hallucinated it...
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Funny how most of the posters who are sure they saw the "Meadow" ending also saw it with their girlfriends. Girlfriends believe they saw whatever you tell them you saw. There was no alternate ending. The car never came from the right.
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Jun 12, 2007 9:16:25 AM CDT
someone on youtube says that the car hits its brakes
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
and they shoot meadow. wrong but good guess. but i get it. meadow comes in. the whole familys sitting down having a dinner.thats it. tony and his family are happy. the fuckin end. but there was so much fuckin tension you feel there was something gonna happen then WHAM 5 seconds of blacknees and credits.
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we're gonna destroy the lost talkback
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Remember the fuss with Dirty Den/bunch of daffs and the black screen all those years ago(Showing my age now-LOL!)?
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...if anyone's mentioned this already, but there is an interview with Chase regarding the finale here: http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/06/david_chase_speaks.html
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Yes, the scene of Meadow coming in the diner did happen. I saw it again last night. But they go to a quick shot of Tony looking up after that. That is the last shot we see.
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I gotta say they're all running neck and neck, but it's gotta be either "Nooooooooo!!" or The Sopranos. Opinions?
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No...not the fucking end.......Tony dies.......period
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are you really that stupid?....."making peace" happens all the time.....but not in reality.......I guess Chase just wanted everything to go black and silence to represent.......well....nothing!?!?!?!come on.......give me a break!!!!!
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We don't see her in the final scene because she had been flipped by the Middle eastern dudes and was suicide bombing the family because Tony was giving them up to the feds.
For my 0.02, I took it as Tony dying without ever hearing the shot, which is more than he deserved.
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That is what happened to all of the last shot of Meadow believers. But as David Chase said, "Oh no, my young Talkbackers. You will find that it is you who are mistaken about a...great...many...things."
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the main problem is you have no idea that when he went to sleep in the previous episode and woke up in the latest episode that they are the same day. He could have woken up the next day and put sheets etc. in the room. The scene of him waking up is NOT the day after he goes to sleep in the previous episode. That kills that theory
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if the synopsis on HBO says meadow arrived in time for dinner I am convinced thats that then.
Its a complete U turn for me - I now think that we all suffered Tonys paranoia for 2 minutes, now one was a threat at all in reality - the song is about going on and on and on
we just dont get to see what happens..........he is gonna carry living his piece of shit life only we dont get to peek in anymore
not unless warner offer chase 200 million of course - then sil will make a 'miraculous' recovery, christopher will be required for 'flashbacks' and a whole lot of blasts from the pasts just for the sheer fun of it - hell even livia will crop up in full CGI bloom..................fcuk you chase you money grabbing piece of shit, no matter how many times i watch it - its not 'art' its a fucking cop out movie get out clause. even some of the stars are on record saying 'wait and see'
Of course i will be in queue for another look in mr sopranos life, cant think of anything better than watching on a 50 ft screen but in the meantime we all gotta wait and see if it happens! -
did anyone recognized the actor that played walden (who shot phil leotardo). i know people are pissed that a new character offed phil, but i love this kid. his name is frank john hughes and he played bill guarnere in band of brothers. that mini series kicked ass as did the actor/character. when he started coming round tony's crew a few episodes back, i got excited and figured he was going to play some sort of big role before all was said and done.
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The vehemence of the arguements about what happened/didn't happen is inspiring. Those who think that Tony S. was "definitely whacked" exhibit the kind of heroic certainty that got us into Iraq. And the wisdom. Made in America indeed.
BTW- Chase is quoted by the Newark paper as leaving the door open for a movie. But what does he know? -
The vehemence of the arguements about what happened/didn't happen is inspiring. Those who think that Tony S. was "definitely whacked" exhibit the kind of heroic certainty that got us into Iraq. And the wisdom. Made in America indeed.
BTW- Chase is quoted by the Newark paper as leaving the door open for a movie. But what does he know? -
"When you cut two shots together, it creates a third shot in your mind that isn't there." This is my explanation for Meadow ending people are imagining.
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This is my first post and I had to actually sign up to write this, but the one comment that caught my attention watching the last Sopranos was when AJ quoted Tony saying "You have to remember the good times". It made me want to remember the good times when the Sopranos was actually a good show and made me wonder if Chase wasn't putting this in there on purpose to apologize for something the studio might have forced him to do against his will (like, say extend the series a few more seasons?). Just a thought...
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oh and one more comment: What kind of idiot gangster takes his grandchildren to a drive when he's in the middle of a mob war?
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Much the same way that David Chase is laughing at all of you right now...
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What happened to the guy that Tony used to beat the crap out of with the phone at the Bing whenever he was in a bad mood?
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I can't believe you guys are still debating this. Has anyone gone back and saw the "Meadow ending" again? What, no? Then it's in your fucking heads. You've learned a valuable lesson about memory. It's imperfect at best. Most of what you remember is bullshit. This is why 20 people, at a crime scene, report 20 different versions of the events. And no, your TiVo is not in a conspiracy to fool you. I've heard some absurd shit over the years on AICN, but this one takes the cake. Not that it makes a difference what the last scene was, but this country is really suffering from an epidemic of certainty lately and I think it's at the root of all our problems.
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The we got whacked theory. I posted it on other websites but i didn't steal it. Im glad im not the only one that thought of it though. Im right regardless even if chase didn't intend that we still got whacked. Remember Oz that final still pisses me off.
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Why do people have such an issue with this? Are they that upset that some saw a different ending? I mean, how would so many people make it up. And as far as mori, since the lost thing, he has become a self-important magnanimous fat-fuck in talkbacks. Sorry, i always laugh at the guys who bash the editors, but his tone is so condescending it is almost comical
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if your first thought after it cuts out is i wonder what meadow saw after walking into the diner. I didn't think that the next day, that was my immediate reaction to what i saw
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if you are comparing ANYTHING involving the Sopranos to IRAQ than you truly are a moron. Secondly, Tony can be dead and Chase can still do his movies. I guess you don't believe James G when he says he is done with the character....why? because he is DEAD!
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.this stupid. What do you THINK the synopsis is going to say???
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...understood by real fans of the show. No one was killed when Meadow walked into the Ice Cream shop. Tony was not killed when the screen went black. The show simply demonstrated the kind of world that Tony lives in. He eats his ice cream -- knowing that he and his family could be popped at any moment by ANYONE. Yet he still eats his ice cream. Such a life might drive someone, well, to seek therapy! 'Nuff said!
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I just think it's ridiculous that the only people who saw this alternate endings are the only ones who don't have a DVR. Or they claim that HBO someone inserted code into the DVR that eliminated the evidence (as a software engineer, this is the stupidest this I've ever heard on AICN, and that's saying a lot). Why do some people have so much problem admitting that they were mistaken? That really scares the shit out of me and it explains a lot about how this country got in such a sad state.
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And when I say conspiracy, I mean it like THERE IS NONE!
But, if you want to believe that HBO, Time Warner, Comcast, Jesus and George Lucas got together and snuck into your fucking house, and sliced a nanosecond of Meadow that you KNOW you saw out of your fucking DVR/TIVO...Don't Stop Believing. The rest of us are laughing at your idiot asses. -
...and sod anyone who thinks otherwise.
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Who watches Lost but a bunch of freaks anyways? Sopranos for the win. You bitches always hated on NJ and look at Sopranos, really put New Jersey on the map. Suck on that! OC sucks, Weeds sucks, etc etc.
Also the Meadow ending is bs, stop lying people. -
He must have been behind the final minutes of this show. Fucking awesome.
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Because we live in a society that revels in violence? Why can't it just end the way it did, with Tony eating dinner with his family? Tony was well aware of that ominous patron, I find it hard to believe that he'd leave his guard down......Besides, no bullets, no blood, no gunshot, it just ended.
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Tony didn't deserve to die because HE DIDN'T GET KILLED. Where is the evidence? There is nothing there to prove it. My theory is that they left it black for ten seconds for impact/respect to the show. It's the last episode, it makes sense to do that. There was no indication that he was shot by Chase or anyone who actually know. So some actor said some shit, big deal, they shot 3 diff endings to keep it all secret and throw everyone (incl. cast members) off.
Use your brain. -
interpretation as fact. There's a reason why it was left open, and it's a great way to end it. For those wanting Tony to go to jail, he went to jail. For those wanting him dead, he got shot, possibly along with his family. Of course there's the he just ate a family dinner angle and it's business as usual. But to claim any scenerio is fact is so off the mark here. You all know who you are.
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Actually, there was a scene in which Tony's lawyer is trying to get some ketchup out of his bottle of Heinz. The song playing in the background was ANITICIPATION. Alas, the guy couldn't get any ketchup and was forced to eat his burger dry. This was, in my opinion, foreshadowing of the final scenes. Like much of life, we could not obtain any closure to the stories of Tony, Carmela, A.J., or Meadow. We simply watch them until the screen suddenly cuts off. Season One of THE SOPRANOS began with Tony deciding to obtain therapy because of his anxiety attacks. Yet after years of theraphy and counseling, Tony is still up to his old antics. He is the type of guy that can sit in an ice cream shop, eat his ice cream and onion rings while KNOWING that he and his family can be killed at anytime (and after many of his "extended" family have died)! It is a great expository of the mob life. In the end, you are only waiting for an ultimatum that may or may not ever come! What happened to Tony? What happened to Silvio? We may never know. But it is the unknown that tends to drive men mad (or in Tony's case, to seek therapy).
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A lot of you are traitors to the show. Good on Chase for giving you the middle finger American douches!!!!!!!
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You bring up some good points, and made me think of another in relation to closure: Silvio. His story is the most open ended. Does he die? Does he come out of his coma? No answers to those questions, either, which goes to show how good a choice was made to end this show the way they did. Oh, DOWNBYTHERIVER3, do you have any other hobbies? I mean, I drop out of this talkback, check back the next day, AND YOU'RE STILL HERE DEBATING THIS CRAP. I'm on lunch break here snickering that this is still going on. Chase must be cackling right now, that's why he's hiding out in France.
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I can feel your anger. We are defenseless. Take your comments - strike talkbackers down with all of your hatred, and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete!
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Ths Meadow Ending legend must be exactly how Christianity started. A few hoopleheads "think" they saw something, some others just lying or ifluenced by what others say they saw, everyone else calling them crazy, etc., but the true believer hanging firm. I say we started tossing these Meadowenders to the lions.
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....you are a true idiot!!!!!!!
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TV Writers Were Also Watching ‘Sopranos’
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By BILL CARTER
Published: June 12, 2007
After he completed the final episode of “The Sopranos,” David Chase told publicity executives at HBO that he was leaving for France and would not take any calls asking him to comment about the ending of his classic television series.
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Related
One Last Family Gathering (June 11, 2007)
The Lede: After the Screen Went Black, the Theories Began
The Finale:
Share Your Thoughts
|
Cast Members Reflect
He also said that he had instructed all of his writers and producers to turn down any requests for information about the decisions that had gone into shaping the show’s last chapter.
The reason for his resistance became clear on Sunday night when “The Sopranos” ended, not with a moment of final summation, but with a literal blank. The reaction to the stunning last shot of an empty screen has been a mix of outrage among some fans at being left sitting on the edges of their seats, where they had been perched for much of the show’s last batch of episodes, and awe among others who have always regarded the show as the most ambitious and unconventional of television series.
Included in the latter group were many people in the same line of work as Mr. Chase, storytellers in the entertainment business.
Damon Lindelof, one of the creators of the ABC hit show “Lost,” another series whose viewers have high expectations about quality, said: “I’ve seen every episode of the series. I thought the ending was letter-perfect.”
Like millions of other viewers, Mr. Lindelof said he was initially taken aback by the quick cut to a blank screen and thought his cable had gone out at that crucial moment. He even checked his TiVo machine and saw that it was still running several minutes beyond the end. When he checked the scene again, he said, he noted “the scene cut off right as Meadow is coming through the door and right at the word ‘stop’ in the Journey song.”
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no.......there is one ending....but there are also stupid jerkoffs like you that are too moronic to comprehend it!!!!
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DAMN YOU DAVID CHASE DENIS
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..that's really cool they let you out of your cage to surf the internet during lunch. Must still be hard with the silver cap and wires coming out of it.
Ha Ha Ha -
.....you are an idiot as well.......Chase did the black screen and muted for a reason....whether you want to accept it or not. Chase is smart enough to know that a large sampling of the population, the idiots to be precise, would not get the ending....and as proven here, they didn't
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why do you think Tony's doc dropped him in the final episode?....because it was foreshadowing when she says "i cannot help you anymore".....it foreshadows the fact that he is going to die........judge with your eyes open people!
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Lost should have had a permenant cut to black 2 years ago.........
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If you choose to believe that Tony got shot in the final scene,then thats just a choice you made.I wont accept any argument that its evident.I prefer to view it like this.Due to Tony's lifestyle his life was equally in danger from the premier all the way to the finale.Dr Melfi dropping Tony was inevitable.If anyone actually reads talkbacks I posted the entire profile of a sociopath weeks back..It wasn't until recent episodes that the good doctor finally caught on that there was never any helping Tony.As it became apparent to me that it was almost as if they wrote Tony's entire character off the sociopath profile from episode one.I don't choose to believe that Tony met his fate in that final scene.Id rather look at it as we've gone on this Journey with him full circle,all the way around back to where we started from.Like Tony's hallucinogenic epiphany about mothers-we have to get off his bus now.
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...why do you have to write all of this assinine anti-Christian bigotry? And how on earth can you tie in something as trivial as the final scene of THE SOPRANOS with your conspiracy theories concerning the religion of Christianity? Jeez -- get a job!
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you should check about 24 hours ago where I was telling people they should try and keep their imaginations in check instead of behaving like one's own imagination is fact. I bet you have a lot of 'friends'.
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So now Christianity is a mass hallucination? Sign of the times, I'm afraid. If this were the Old Testament, God would already have you vomiting diarrhea. It's called a 'smiting'.
To Sopranos fans who were with it from the beginning, was Phil really the best choice for the primary antagonist the last few seasons? I mean, was he really as ruthless and sleazy as Richie Aprile? Richie was one bad motherfucker and not in a good way. Phil, in comparison, not so much, even though what he did to Vito was pretty deplorable. I'm just not sure he was the right choice for lead villain at the end. -
I remember him getting killed, but can't remember by who.
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Wow -- you really showed me! You must be sooooooo classy and intelligent! In fact, you cut me down without even telling me the reason. Thanks! Good luck with the, uh, "exciting life" that you must live.
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No no...on second thought, don't tell me.
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Or anything for that reason.
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The Lord works in mysterious ways.
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Which incidentally is the name of Harry and Yoko's china pattern. He's registered at Spencer's gifts, btw.
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in one place for long enough, and the conversation will eventually turn to shit in one form or another.
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Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take Tony's place at my side!
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it beats vomited diarrhea
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you are as nieve as you are ignorant.......YOU can believe what you want but the truth is evident DESPITE your ignorance. Dr. Malfi dropping Tony was NOT inevitable. Hate to break the news to you but shrinks do not drop patience because they do not think they can help them. The truth of the matter is, she would keep milking him for hours all she could. That is what they do. Believe what you will but you are clueless.....
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I am a Meadowender because I go through life sure of the things I see. Why should I concede a delusion because the majority saw an extra second or two of Tony looking up? Lindelof saw the same thing Antilife and I did. Fucking accept that in some areas, the footage cut to black earlier.
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i cut your down because I was offended I had to waste precious seconds of my life reading your ignorant, monkey dribble.
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themselves at night? Like, with White-Castle or Taco-Bile? I just don't get why chicks don't dig it as much I do...
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All skeptics are arrogant assholes who wear their smugness on their sleeves. They're probably unadventurous/strictly missionary in bed too.
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Brilliant! You read my post (that other's commented upon favorably) and immediately attack me. Thanks for....nothing.
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how is it possible to waste seconds of your life when all you do is sit on AICN talkbacks preaching your imagination as fact?
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For the record, I saw a totally different ending to either of the ones described here. This is properly strange and freaking me out in light of everything I've read on this talkback. So...we see the shot of Tony looking up as the diner bell rings, then it cuts to Meadow with a concerned look on her face as she enters the diner, THEN we cut to AJ who has broken an onion ring in half, shoved a piece up each nostril, wearing his napkin on his head for comedy effect with his eyes crossed. He lets out a huge belch and then suddenly the music stops abruptly and we cut to 45 seconds of just a Tartan screen. Then the credits roll. Fucking weird. -
did AJ or did he not have ketchup on his onion rings? And in which cut did he have it or not have it? The Meadow ending or the Tony ending?
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because if he did have ketchup, then that means it was symbolic of Tony's blood covering them and their meal. If he didn't have ketchup, it means Tony lives, but may still die anyway. I personally don't put ketchup on my onion rings, but my statements ARE FACT.
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In the AJ ending I just described, he had it smeared all over his face
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you ketchup losers need a checkup.........
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I see that your attachment to being a Meadowender is neverending. Now, take a deep breath and explain to the rest of us how it happened that the Meadowending does not exist on ANY recorded media? Back your shit up with ANY logical explanation, or STFU, and admit you just thought you saw it.
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facts are facts........except when they are yours used by you as pawns to express your twisted and ignorant perceptions....aka stupidity!
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well.......you aren't elite. You aren't the only idiot in here! :)
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Since you seem to have the time on your hands to sift through the posts and find mine, why dont you go back even further. I never criticised this show until the finale. I was always one to say "They will bring it all together in the final 9" "They will bring it together in the final 4" "Chase knew how he would end the series, so wait for the final episode" I was never looking for a bloodbathe. What I was looking for a was good writing and a decent conclusion. If youre so happy with the finale I am glad. Keep watching it over and over. But I have personally followed a steep decline in imagination over the course of this series culminating in this abysmal finale. Did you even read Chases interview? Now I am done talking about the Sopranos, finally. At least we still have the first 3 seasons.
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was there even a ketchup bottle on the table? If there were, it means Tony was getting busted by the Feds. It's the only place they would hide the bug to know just the right moment to bust him. And if, in fact, AJ did have ketchup on his face, that means he had ketchup on his rings. Therefore, the Feds saved Tony from being whacked by blowing away the assasin. There's your bloodbath, people. Oh, and Tony lives. Simple logic.
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http://ridingwithricky.blogspot.com/2007/06/rickeys-obligatory-sopranos-post.html
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...without malace, without judgment:
I have now seen the live feed in HD, east, west, HD, non hd,on Demand, even HBO latin. There is NOT ONE of these that show Meadow enter the diner. Every one of them goes black as Tony looks up at the sound of a bell, presumably on the door of the diner, indicating someone opened it. Get this again: Meadow crosses past the camera, bell, tony looks up DON'T STOP BLACK. I did however see a gremlin run out of my DVR, not one of those furry Mogwai dudes, but one of the green scaly fuckers. He muttered something about a Carmella ending. -
...he would have shown it.
End of story. It really is as simple as that. Perfect ending, too. Good day. -
The car does come at Meadow from both directions. There is a cut at the moment she crosses the street. The camera starts behind her car and the SUV is coming from the left of the screen, the cut happens, the camera is now in front of Meadow, assumed to be looking from the door of the diner, and the SUV is now coming from the right of the screen
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.....it just wouldn't have felt like the "sopranos" to have gone out with something as obvious as tony getting arrested or getting whacked....it has always done what you least expect. it has never really gone for melodrama. it always treats everything as real as it can be and that felt fine to me. it kept in with the rest of the series.that final scene was so fucking insanely tense though. I never thought parallel parking could be so tense.....and then..did they get whacked? did tony get it in the back of the head? were all those guys cops about to arrest him? was that robert patrick in the truckers cap..it fuckinglooked like him? who the fuck knows all i know is that it is over and I loved it. Such a shame that it is gone but 6 seasons of fucking greatness so we can't complain. personally i think the ending was meant to show you that he may have beaten phil and "WON" for now but his life is always going to be filled with paranoia ... i think they purposely filled that restaraunt with folks who look like people from over the years that tony has either fucked over or killed and it was basically saying he will never "win" because he will always be watching his back and living in fear.i might be wrong but thats how i saw it....
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..so we can "end" this. Seriously, it's the friggin Internet, everything ends up here mere minutes after it airs. Going on two days now, and nobody has produced one tiny five-second clip that would end this debate. Why is that? Is it because only "true believers" can see it!? And : so what if someone writes a summary ending with "Meadow walks through the door"? I assumed she did also, when the bell jingled right after she was seen running across the street. That doesn't do jack shit to prove that the shot exists. Time's ticking, people...dig around, post the clip, and I'll be the first to apologize. Waiting...
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Is uncle June hunting ass sucking mummies with Elvis and John F Kennedy? Fogedaboutit!
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...oh and i fucking loved "we're gonna win this thing!" awesome....truly awesome
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I bring up the SUV because it comes from both directions in the same clip. Not in the actual clip and then in a different mythical clip.
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bed bath and beyond, for gods sake, sometimes months pass between episodes, why did ep 86 have to pickup the next morning after ep 85??
Why fixate on something like that when there is effort and planning crafted into dozens of other scenes intended to provoke reaction and discussion. As to the episode, loved it, a come down after last week, smoothing things over, which is always the way with the mafia life, ups and downs, but the idea of a finale, a end, is what drove the last 5 min. Chase wrote and directed a magnificent setpiece that cranked up the tension, seemingly inocious moments teasing, suggesting some moment of impending doom, all to play to the idea that there may be some big all out finish to the series. The fact is, a TV show, a movie or story doesn't have to end, it's an ongoing tale here, the core is family, tonys father was fucked up, which fucked up tony, then to A.J. it's an ongoing cycle, the same with the mob, Paulies conversation about the guys running the building crew dieing off. Its ongoing. I see the need for conclusion, for resolution, for seeing justice (which may happen with the inditement) or death (which may happen with a hit) or getting away with it. Make up your own mind. Those final 5 minutes did one thing above others for me, it put me in Tonys place, the tension was horrendous, something was lurking, did it come? who knows, every day of his life it was life that and we got a peek into it. Maybe it was just putting us in his position, maybe they just enjoyed onion rings, maybe there was a bullet to the head, the only thing we're sure of is that we're better off having had this show and poorer now it's gone. Thanks to Chase is all I can say for producing something American TV should be damn proud of. -
I'm with you, man. The concept to leave it open was great, but the execution was piss-poor imo. Am I seeing through Tony's eyes? through my eyes as an invisible observer? Did my cable feed just go dead? (Seriously, did Chase WANT this to be a possible response from loyal viewers?)
Never see it coming or Onion rings into the sunset is a nice twist, but as you, I only remember Meadow HITTING the door, and then jingle-black.
If its supposed to be about Tony, why wasn't the last shot before black shown as though "I" were sitting in the booth looking through Tony's eyes at the menu, only to hear the jingle and as I start to look up - BLACK!
It would have been so less frustrating for me. bad edits and choices. -
In the prequel, The King and Junior hunt vampires
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I made a little rap in you guys' honor. This is to all the haters: THE MEADOW ENDING DOESN'T EXIST COZ U GUYS IS JUST A BUNCH OF LYING DICKS, CHASE ENDED THE SHOW THE BEST, BUT ALL YOU DAMN HATERS WOULD HAVE RATHER SEEN BREAST, YOU ARE ALL GAY YEAH THATS RIGHT, IF I SEE U ON DA STREETS THERE'LL BE A FIGHT, COZ THE MEADOW ENDING WAS CREATED IN YOUR MINDS, AND NOW U DONT HAVE THE PROOF TO...LIKE get your cred back or something. K?
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With all your spelling and grammatical errors I'm not at all surprised you think I'm the ignorant one
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AJ could have written a better rap song. Word
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If David Chase wanted Tony dead he would have killed him. But he didn't.
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...while I agree with the premise of your elloquent linguistic stylings, you say they want to see breasts and then call them gay. perhaps change "would have rather seen breast" to "wanted bloody chests" and leave in the gay part.
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not meadow. the last thing we see is tony. as low key as the ending was if you think the last frame was not going to feature tonys face you are crazy.it was definitely tony.
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What would a random shooting in the last scene have meant anyway? A death for the sake of it? Hardly a meaningful end. If Tony was going to die you'd want it to have significance - have Carmela or Paulie or AJ do it for example. And that would have taken serious storylining in the preceding weeks to make it credible, which of course there wasn't. So I don't understand the anger of people who were disappointed that he wasn't whacked by a complete stranger in the final scene of the final episode. It would have been meaningless.
So the message was 'life goes on' and the only real challenge for Chase was to dramatise that - which he did, quite magnificently. Far better than watching them all having a chuckle round the table and fading slowly to black.
And quietly, an awful lot of the character's journeys *were* concluded. Genius.
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If there's no blood, there's no satisfaction. That's why since we saw no blood or killing, the fantasyland people are saying he had to have been murdered, just for the sake of IMAGINING blood. My imagination theme carries on, just like the Soprano family.....
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The last shot of Meadow was of her being analized in the back of her Lexus by two black guys, she was like "UH, UH, YEAH GIVE IT TO ME DADDY, YEAH!"...fade to black. I think only Alaskan viewers saw this ending.
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.....you are mindboggling retarded.......
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........
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The last shot of her being boned was amazing. Perfect foreshadowing throughout the 6 seasons too. She has the best Italian ass ever!
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..........in Return of the Jedi, Vader didn't die, he just kept on going. Yeah you see a ghost but really, that is Lucas's way of saying he is still alive and advancing. Vader never died, that would be too predictable. Why would Lucas do that. That would be soooooooooooo silly. You see, it is not readly apparent anything happened. Everything is meant to trick the viewer, him gasping for air, Luke holding him.....those are symbols of continued like..........Ha Ha Ha Ha.....and in Jaws.....when the shrak blows up........that just means.......
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I would gladly challenge you to a linguistics debate any day of the month!
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DON'T STOP BONING, OUTSIDE IN THE CAAAAAARRR, MEADOW, BLACK GUYS BONING IN THE NIIIGHHHIIIGHT. DON'T STOP BONING...FUCKING MEADOW IN HER CAR, BLACK GUYS, BONING IN THE NIIIGHIIGHT!
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you are right.......that is why he DID show Tony dying, in his own way. I guess he didn't realize that there would be THIS many idiots trying to say it didn't happen.
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Well then lets just examine your original post directed at me-Dr.Melfi would have whats called patients.PATIENCE is what we all need when dealing with a troll like yourself.And no she would never "milk" Tony.Dr Melfi genuinely wanted to help him all these years.She just didn't want to enable him or help him hone his sociopathic behavior.And lastly,Stellavista had it dead on right in his post and either your the one who's completely clueless ,or you are purposely trolling.Either way I hope you get banned for bing a jackass.
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OK, maybe somebody else pointed this out earlier, but I'm not checking 8 bajillion posts to make sure...the NY Times quotes Herc's post about the "meaning" of the ending almost word for word: http://tinyurl.com/2nu3yn
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...than a TonyEnder.
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ALL OF U MOFOS COMING HERE LIKE FLIES, TALKING BOUT SOME BOGUS MEADOW ENDING, JUST HYPOCRISY AND LIES, TRYING TO MAKE US ALL DOUBLE TAKE BUT WE KNOW U IS JUST FAKE, COZ THE REAL FANS DONT MAKE UP STUPID LAME ENDINGS, INVOLVING MEADOW AND A WEIRD LOOK SHE GIVES TONY, YOU BITCHES IS ALL PHONEY, SO GET OFF TAlKBACK BEFORE THE REAL FANS WHACK YOU.
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...How many disappointed? Anyone.....anyone? I don't know why everyone is so surprised at how the thing ended. It was really just an exercise in futility anyway. Poor plot lines, average acting, improbable scenarios, just an all around mess, and absolutely nothing we haven't seen done before and better. Did Tony get whacked, or not? Did Meadow get a ticket for her incredibly poor job of parking? David Chase has a penchant for leaving room for multiple exits and setting up the viewer for their own interpretation of events. So, whatever you think happened, happened, unless they make a movie, which probably won't happen, because as I understand it, he really didn't want to do as many seasons as were filmed anyway. In other news, why not make a mob movie out of Veronica Mars? It's four years down the road....Veronica is in the FBI and she goes undercover with a Las Vegas crime syndicate. Now that would be cool.
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End Transmission.
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The giveaway: When 'members only' jacket goes to the shitter the camera pans with him keeping him in frame. Extras don't get screen treatment like that. He was essential to the scene. Tony died just like he said 'it all goes black'.
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again, you are an idiot. First of all, I have written enough papers in my life AND I have more than enough to do. I do not have time to proof-read my entries for you. If you do not get the meaning or want to ignore it, that isn't surprising. Secondly, how is it that you know so much more about Malfi than I.....jeez, you must be a producer on the show. Thirdly, both of you are clueless and have it all wrong.....sorry! :)
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I did not see this shot of Meadow being analized. The last shot, from what I saw, was of Tony looked toward the door, then blackness. The end. My memory is crystal clear on this.
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.....how do you "bing a jackass", just curious given that I KNOW that is not a misspelling on your part because you are SUCH a great and accurate writer.......PLEASE EDUCATE ME!!!!!
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*was "when Tony looked toward the door", not "was of Tony looked toward the door". PS - that "Freak" was an homage to the horribly watered-down Sopranos on A&E. Ralphie: "Look at all those freakin' indians." -- Completely ruins everything.
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How is that a giveaway? That's just stupid. It was a red herring to demonstrate a point.
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All the people still moaning about the ending, which those of us that didn't just tune in every week in the hope that blood was spilled think was a great ending, here's a challenge. Tell me how you'd have liked it to have ended, and I'll dismiss your ending with one of the following words: corny, cliched, predictable, unrealistic, or ridiculous. Anyone who says "Tony was killed" or "Tony was arrested" will be immediately disqualified, because both those endings come in to all 5 categories. So, let's have it then... the perfect ending. Prove me wrong. No?
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...but I thought AJ's line about 'remembering the good times' was significant - as if Chase was saying that everybody's looking for too much in the final episode -it's the body of work that's the important thing. Those who wanted action, plot development, death and shootings got it in spades in the penultimate episode. It was as if Chase was trying to appease that element of the audience without compromising his own vision for the ending. As a pair of episodes they've got the lot.
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I would have liked it to have ended with Meadow going into porn and we see this musical montage of her having hardcore sex.
Ha, got you there didn't I? -
Damn... I didn't expect to be beaten by the first post...
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Good God will someone get that pussy a pad or something?
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what?
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what? wow me with your oh-so-impressive perspective on all that is Sopranos and the Mafia. You've written enough of them, right? Just enlighten us all about how you are obviously right. While you're at it, point out your name in the credits. Surely you were a Co-writer, right? No? Oh, well then maybe you were an AD? Not an AD, huh? Well then obviously you were a PA, fetching coffee for Mr. Chase? Thats it, that gotta be it. Wait, what? You mean you weren't actually involved in the production of the show? Oh well then fuck us, we ALL gotta be wrong except for you. Douchebag.
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I actually agree, Tony got it right behind the ear. Doesn't mean you have to be a complete and total ass about what everyone else thinks. Feel like I forgot something.....what is that....oh yeah Douchebag.
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Don't stop...TB'ING!...Hold on to that feeling!
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"First of all, I have written enough papers in my life AND I have more than enough to do. I do not have time to proof-read my entries for you. If you do not get the meaning or want to ignore it, that isn't surprising. Secondly, how is it that you know so much more about Malfi than I.....jeez, you must be a producer on the show. Thirdly, both of you are clueless and have it all wrong.....sorry! :)" "you are right.......that is why he DID show Tony dying, in his own way. I guess he didn't realize that there would be THIS many idiots trying to say it didn't happen." OH and lets not forget the classics- "Jak0lantern01
facts are facts........except when they are yours used by you as pawns to express your twisted and ignorant perceptions....aka stupidity!
ccchhhrrriiisssm
well.......you aren't elite. You aren't the only idiot in here! :)" SERIOUSLY, GUESS!!! -
I know a guy that knows Chase and I just called him in France where he is resting up. He told me this: "DTR is a faggot".
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Where are the post counts and top 10 most responded to TB's?
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I'll check back in a bit to see how much more of a botched abortion job you really are. Right now I have to go masturbate on your mom's toothbrush.
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Why are people so afraid to interpret for themselves? It could well be Tony is supposed to have been killed, but I just don't see the smoking gun that sells it for a certainty-- so what? Why is that so horrible? You look at any great art-- yeah I used the 'a' word-- and it contains within it ambiguity. It can and does stimulate you to think, to analyze-- and like it or not that's what you're doing.
Now if Chase says Tony got whacked, fine. I'll accept that. I must be the only fan of the show that DOESN'T want him screwed, but I'll accept it. It'd be fitting. In the meantime it's not a done deal in my book, no matter how much some people stamp their feet and fume and insist otherwise over and over.
For people talking about the significance of the guy who goes to the bathroom, you missed the point entirely. Nobody's saying he's not important-- of COURSE he is. You're supposed to keep your eye on him. He's there to create unease. The question is-- does that unease culminate in a bullet to the head, or is it a red herring. And I just don't think the answer's set in stone yet, if it'll ever be. -
after you click on an article from the home screen.
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Sorry DTR, that was funny. On a more responsible note, Stella, AJ's line about remembering the good times was definitely a nice touch by the writers to bring it all home for the viewers, I dug it.
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"We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people's minds, or thinking, 'Wow, this'll [tick] them off.' People get the impression that you're trying to [mess] with them and it's not true. You're trying to entertain them." YEA FUCKIN RIGHT. you tried for something diffrent and it didnt work.
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Jun 12, 2007 6:23:52 PM CDT
well alot of people didnt think it worked anyway
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
wouldve been nice to have closure
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Didnt read it anywhere not surprised someone else thought that though. Its not like everyone trolls a dozen websites looking for something similar before they post thier thoughts like you do no life jackass.
GFYS -
Who's gonna watch the next episode of Sopranos next week?
Post your plot ideas here!
I personally think that AJ is gonna open a gay night club and throw a huge gay orgy, Meadow will of course go into hardcore porn, Tony will jump off a cliff on a skateboard, and Carm will have anal sex with Paulie. -
and on and on and on....
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I've seen those before, I guess people go on memory in terms of most posts total for TB's
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Why do you need closure? Does everything in your life have closure? Does every single situation you face on a daily basis (probably just playing with your boaby, and seeing what size of vegetables you can squeeze up your arse, but still) end without the possibility of something else happening?
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It was the last show of the series, a beloved (by some) seven-year series. I can understand wanting the loose ends tied up. But what can I say, to me this is a good, fitting ending. To each their ow-- I mean-- FUCKIN' DOUCHEBAGS. Yeah. That's the ticket.
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Remember the earlier scene of the Fed trying to pour some ketchup on his burger? He tried and tried (even with the song "ANTICIPATION" playing) but could never produce some red stuff on his sandwich. Foreshadowing? The Fed, like the rest of us viewers, were forced to eat a SOPRANOS burger DRY and without a glorious "ketchup" Hollywood ending. But then again, David Chase recognized that this is reflective of life. The ending was perfect: Tony, sitting in a Ice Cream Shop, eating his onion rings -- knowing that both he and his family could be killed at any moment. Many of his closest mob friends and relatives have recently died. Yet LIFE goes on. Tony simply eats his onion rings. This is his curse. It is enough to drive some men to experience anxiety attacks -- or to seek THERAPY. Oh, wait a minute, that was the plot of the first episode of the Sopranos! So the finale shows Tony continuing in his complicated and fearful life. There are some things worse than death and, for Tony Soprano, living with this anxious weight on his shoulders is one of them!
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Boy the Sopranos sure doesn't disappoint I was on the edge of my seat for the Made in America episode. David Chase sure knows how to build that tension and hopefully he delivers on the next and final episode where we finally discover what happened in that diner and uncover the fates of Tony's families!! Bring it on HBO! yeah!
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yeah whoever posted that with the relevance of onion rings...makes more sense from an execution standpoint. We get whacked. Show gets whacked. Good stuff.crit thinking in that link. kudos.
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no seriously?
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you need your remote, then when your tivo is on, you should input 4 8 15 23 42, you have only 108 minutes, if you do it correctly you can watch the version with the meadow ending!!
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saw it at tonyisdead dot com. pretty f'n sweet.
Since tony IS dead -
The Walnuts
http://tinyurl.com/2aluzy
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he lived on through the force. Oh, as for the shark in Jaws, they blew the wrong one up. The REAL shark came back for Jaws 2. How's that for ya'. Same with E.T. Never got on that ship. It was Gertie all along in her super Peter Sellers line of disguises. You should see it with the himp.
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for whoever wanted it so he can see his "mysterious extended scene"
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Jun 12, 2007 9:57:23 PM CDT
venom also lived on through the force
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
its true
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DIDNT SEE THE MYSTERY SCENE YOUR MAKING UP MEMORIES
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Chase said, according to a guy who was on MSNBC's Countdown yesterday that all of the answers are there. Well, you even made that pretty damned ambiguous obviously. There is talk of the last episode being a goddamn dream because of how the room was different from how it was before then. To be honest this is bothering me now. If Chase is gonna pull this Newhart bullshit, I hate the ending even more now. Although, if he was gonna do an ending like that, I'm sure he didn't have the time to let the viewer know in a better manner like telling the viewers. At the same time, it may have just been lazy ass Chase forgetting how the set looked, thus throwing that theory out the window. I am not saying I feel the theory is true, but it is a little flaky. I'll get back to that in a little bit. Like I said before, I do feel that Chase did not kill Tony. I actually do agree with the whole viewer is whacked thing. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Chase thought ahead to even think that he knew people would be this angry, confused, and just plain disappointed. When the Beatles made Abbey Road and people listened to "I Want You (She's So Heavy)", people thought that their tape players broke because of it's abrupt ending. I think the Beatles planned that. I wouldn't be surprised if this idea is what David concocted as a device to end the show. Now this whole dream thing is really bothering me though. Everything was going a little too perfectly. Everything Tony had wanted happened. His daughter married, A.J pursuing a career, the man who wanted him dead getting whacked, and (up for question) the diner. Not to mention A.J.'s quote. Also, it is common in dreams for people who would normally be long forgotten to reappear in dreams just because they are still in the person's memory (explaining how the black guys and the truck driver were in the diner). I think Chase expected for people to think that their cable boxes and dvrs fucked up due to the ending he came up with. But this dream thing is something not a lot of people are talking about. I would like some proof calling some kind of bullshit on this theory. BTW I am NOT trying to discredit Chases theme of live continuing. I agree with what Chase was trying to say in the diner scene.
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I will need to rewatch it, but I don't remember seeing any oranges in the final scene.
Also, it wouldn't have hurt my feelings if one of the songs Tony skips over on the jukebox was I Wonder Why by Dion. -
Personally, I like that Chase gave his audience some credit. Unfortunately, most people seem to want to have things spelled out for them. Do you think Tony died? Great, then that's your ending. Do you think (as I do) that the final scene just showed how he has to live the rest of his life in fear, even in the most mundane situations? Well, you're right too. Let's face it, Chase was never going to satisfy everyone with one ending. By leaving it open to interpretation, he was giving everyone the ending they wanted. It's whatever we want it to be. And guess what, it still caused a shitstorm.
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It's like giving someone a Rorschach test and when they tell you they see a butterfly, you say, "No, you dumbass, it's a fucking tree".
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Shut the fuck up. You want to see it so bad, look around for it. Ask other people. I'm not so insecure that I have to seek it out to prove I saw what I saw. I'm comfortable knowing I told the truth. Gnash your teeth in jealousy at the firmament of my fortitude.
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Nobody's saying the last scene was full of random events. But rumblings and portent don't *nessecarily* add up to an actual death. That's what they call a 'red herring', a road that leads to nowhere. It was the last scene of the entire show, and Chase knew that we would be on the edge of our seats. It was then or never. He played off it. He hinted. But he didn't spell it out. I could of course yet be wrong, time will tell. I'm not saying the "you'll never even feel it" angle doesn't have merit. But the way I see it it's not a sure bet. And I *definitely* agree with you that his life is, even after all this time, far from roses. In Junior, he sees how worthless all the little games are in the end. His son in spite of his valiant effort has regressed into being a douchebag again. After a lot of bullshit about gaining new perspective he hasn't learned from his trials and hasn't really changed. An arrest looms. It's far from happily ever after but I do believe it's "life goes on". Until I'm really convince otherwise.
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Maybe somebody's saying the last scene's full of random events. But *I'm* not. Also. Unrelated. I like that Paulie didn't betray him in the end-- but you can see it in him. It's there like it always was. This deep, hollow resentment. I love that blank look of total apathy he gets, his 'Tony fucked me over again, and I'ma take it' look.
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I just rewatched the ending for the first time since I saw it the first time- before I had read any theories. I have to admit that I misremembered the ending myself.
I DEFINITELY remember Meadow coming through the door and then cut to Tony looking up before cutting to black. I knew the last shot was on Tony, but I must have been confused with how far Meadow got. Nice editing really. The sound of the bell.
One of the reasons I didn't think Tony was killed was because Meadow's reaction in the door did not indicate danger. Now I am not sure. -
As I stated I saw it as well. And to those that say it wouldnt make a difference, you're wrong. See ing Mead walk tward the table in an abbreviated shot in Tonys POV then black made it seem clear he had been shot. After watching the ending with Tony I could see why people believe he didn't die. ALSO as I stated before the HBO re-caps (posted on Monday mornings) ended with the sentence: "and Meadow arrived just in time..." THEN after 10AM Eastern the same sentence was changed to "and Meadow arrived just in time FOR DINNER". Check the Sopranos board many others saw it as well. Believe it if you want, make of it what you will. It's the truth.
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I don't WANT Tony to be killed. And that has to be part of my process. Still, I just can't close the book on it. I will say this-- before this TB, the ending as I saw it was a pretty cut and dry 'life goes on' ending, after looming the possibility of an assassination which (as I saw it) didn't happen. But after reading this TB, the possibility that he took one in the ol' medula oblongata seems very possible. Like I said, maybe Chase's intented interpretation will come out someday. Or maybe it'll just be a mystery. Honestly I think we're both right. Because really, every moment for him could very well be 'kablam', that one just as easily as any other. My interpretation of the cut to black? That was the moment, the exact point in time, when we stopped being a part of his life. It goes on without us. That was, at the time of my viewing, the way I saw it. And I haven't been convinced yet I'm definitely wrong.
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it cut to black....tonys voice comesup "what the fuck" and it fades up there is tony - standing in the middle of a field ...a caption comes up "ITALY - 1643....Volume Two...to be continued"...oh and for the record it didn't end with meadow. it ended on tony.
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it makes you sound like a pretentious cocksucker.
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The irony all along is that despite being a dirtbag, Tony is really likable. Makes no sense but I fall into that category myself. Well, liking Tony I mean, I'm neither a dirtbag nor likable.....
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Jun 13, 2007 3:28:17 AM CDT
hahahaha this is a fun conversation
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I like the guy. I've spent seven years looking over his shoulder, through good times and bad. I can always see where he's coming from, and I've always liked him and hoped for the best along the way. Like I said, if he were offed it'd be fitting, sure. I would accept it, ye often reap as ye sow. But I'd be happy to see him ruin lives and lie to his family for years to come. They aren't real lives, so I allow myself the indulgence.
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Yeah. This is true. I thought it was a bit much, but just said 'fuck it, close enough'.
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was on imdb. "SPOILER ALERT: Rocker Steve Perry refused to let The Sopranos creator David Chase use his classic song "Don't Stop Believin'" in the mob show's final scene until he knew the fate of the drama's leading characters. The ex-Journey frontman kept Chase waiting until three days before the long-awaited finale aired in America on Sunday. Perry is a huge Sopranos fan and feared his 1981 rock anthem would be remembered as the soundtrack to the death of James Gandolfini's character Tony Soprano - until Chase assured him that wouldn't be the case. Perry says, "The request came in a few weeks ago and it wasn't until Thursday that it got approval, because I was concerned. I was not excited about (the possibility of) the Soprano family being whacked to 'Don't Stop Believin''. Unless I know what happens - and I will swear to secrecy - I can't in good conscience feel good about its use." And Perry was so true to his word, he didn't even tell his family the song featured in the finale. He adds, "I didn't want to blow it. Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?'"
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Jun 13, 2007 4:00:54 AM CDT
and davind chase is a fucking piece of shit
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
about the ending(what else? lol) Chase declined to discuss the final scene, saying, "I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there."
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either way, hes a piece of horse shit
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something like this wouldve been better than a black screen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfWP_ZMZ5PU
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I didn't mean in general. I only meant that his life was doing too well throughout the events of the FINAL episode to add to an argument that Tony dreamed it all.
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Tony hasn't leard shit. He is still a pompous jerk who people like. And I didn't mean that his life is perfect. I only meant that, to me, some things like A.J. forgetting all about his desire to join the army and instead LISTENING TO HIS PARENTS and gets a job on a movie set were a little too strange. I do agree with Pompulous
on a lot of those things especially with Junior. I just meant that some things like the trees (not blowing) are a little bit coincidental if all of that really was a dream. -
do not end The Shield like this. We want fucking closure. Kill Vic, or put him in prison, or let him get away with everything. Just let us know what happens.
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if your x thought Tony was hot, she must be a real PIG!
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yes, exactly........there are stupid, ignorant people who ignore the truth (like you) and there are people who get it who know what happened.
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For Eeeever Youuunnngggg!
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...was only assured that there wouldn't be a bloodbath with his song on the soundtrack... which there wasn't. Interesting "deal" he struck with Chase, but I'm still not convinced that's proof of anything.
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I think this settles it--
http://tinyurl.com/2e4u9n -
First of all, one cannot believe everything you read on IMDB. I went there and did not see any of the information mentioned. But, even if it is true, Chase just promised him there would be no VISUAL bloodbath tied to the song or that Tony would not be whacked WHILE the song IS playing. If true, this could even contribute additional evidence to the fact that Tony was killed. At the point of his death, the song stops (vs. not playing in the background WHILE he is killed). If Tony lived, why not keep playing the song because then, it would not be going against Steve Perry's wishes.
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The vid is fake, an ok fake when you see it at regular speed, but slowed down.. nope.
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It's your way or the highway, no matter the argument, no matter what information comes to light. Don't stop believin!
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Do you think I'm a moron. Of course it's fake. I just thought it was a funny fake.
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Is is safe for me to say?
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Is it safe for me to say?
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Sorry Jack0lantern01.
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..it is my way which is the most logical and factual based arguement or the highway. You are welcome to your opinion but just because you have the opinion doesn't make it equal. Let me dumb it down for some of you in here. If I say gravity on earth exists and I prove it by dropping an apple. You can certainly say it doesn't but at that point, is your opinion have equal merit? Of course not. Only a substantiated opinion has true merit.
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Here's is a great link to an explanation why the last episode was pure gold!! The ironic thing is that its from a political blogger.
THe more i ponder about all of this the more i realize that Chase is BRILLIANT (thats for u shogun)
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2007/06/regarding-sopranos-and-american-evil.html
**Note he uses bad words...but if your a sopranos fan im sure u wont mind** -
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2007/06/regarding-sopranos-and-american-evil.html
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No shot of this thread going to black? STOP!
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6/11/2007
Regarding The Sopranos and American Evil:
The uproar over the final episode of The Sopranos is on that idiotic side of hilarious, the place where you look around at all the goobs and no-brain fucks and wonder why you all get to say you're members of the same species. The Rude Pundit's one-line review of it: a brilliant "Fuck you, America." Don't worry - this ain't gonna be some jerk-off fanboy parsing of every goddamn clue and every character's final scenes, looking for where a movie might be made. Series creator David Chase would think you're a tool for doing that, anyway.
Here's one of the things we got: A.J., Tony Soprano's son, has been a whiny little bitch since his girlfriend dumped him, and he had all of a sudden discovered there's bad shit going on in the world, even attempting suicide over it all. After a period of getting into watching Frontline and checking out political websites, the hot teenage girl he's been hanging out with turns him on to Bob Dylan while sitting in his SUV. The SUV catches fire as he's about to bang the girl, with Dylan singing in the background. They escape, the SUV blows up, Dylan melts, and the explosion and thrill of the violence is just really cool to A.J. He announces he wants to join the military to go to Afghanistan, become an Arabic translator, and fight terrorists. The most telling part of his conversation with his parents about it is they don't want A.J. to go fight in Iraq, as if it's understood without saying so that that war is a useless waste of life. At the end of the talk, Carmela and Tony tell A.J. that they've gotten him a job working on a movie about a detective who has to solve virtual murders inside the Internet. And A.J., distracted from his noble calling by the stupidity of the movie business, takes the job, and he ends up laughing at YouTube videos with the girl, driving around in a studio-owned BMW, the American dream, man.
So why should you give a shit, you who may not have watched The Sopranos all these years? The other things that the Rude Pundit looked at this weekend include the Council of Europe Report on CIA Secret Prisons in Eastern European countries, where you got to learn that America kept men who had never been convicted of or officially charged with any crimes in squalid cells, nude, with freezing cold or burning hot air blown in, with loudspeakers that would blare the sounds of screaming women and children as punishment if the men didn't show their hands fast enough when the guards demanded to know if they were alive, where they were hung on the wall by shackles and forced into stress positions. No, no, dear right wingers, they were not being skinned alive or boiled in oil, but is that really the standard by which we want to measure our humanity?
And the Rude Pundit also read the report by several human rights groups about the 39 "ghost detainees" kept by the United States in the secret prisons. Here's the Rude Pundit's favorite little bit: "In September 2002, Yusuf al-Khalid (then nine years old) and Abed al-Khalid (then seven years old) were reportedly apprehended by Pakistani security forces during an attempted capture of their father, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed...After Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s arrest in March 2003, Yusuf and Abed Al Khalid were reportedly transferred out of Pakistan in U.S. custody. The children were allegedly being sent for questioning about their father’s activities and to be used by the United States as leverage to force their father to co-operate with the United States." But don't worry. An American official says, "We are handling them with kid gloves. After all, they are only little children...but we need to know as much about their father's recent activities as possible. We have child psychologists on hand at all times and they are given the best of care."
The reason that people are so upset about the finale of The Sopranos is that the show just ends in a quick blackout as Tony's family gathers for dinner in an all-American diner, ominous people walking by, constant threats in the air, the aura of impending doom never abating. And then that's it. Silence. Sure, we could argue about whether or not what it "really" means is that Tony was shot dead. But that doesn't matter. And it misses the point.
The Fuck-You of the episode is to deny you catharsis. You want it all tidy, all the moralistic good and bad so neatly bundled into a final grand gesture, Tony dead, maybe his family dead, nice Shakespearean and unified. You wanted blood. But what the series told us is that, at the end of the day, we are all tainted by the immorality we're willing to endure, even "benefit" from, and that, no matter what the culture around us tries to force on us, most of the time we simply go on living with the evil that we do or are willing to overlook. The war won't just "end." It'll be this thing that haunts us, this thing that reconfigures how we exist in the world, re-creates what we believed to be our identity and morality. And, no, this ain't about some goddamn TV show or books or movies that explore the same thing.
A writer once posed this question to a young Rude Pundit, after reading an early draft of one of his plays: "Do you believe that evil people are always punished?" That was when the Rude Pundit still held out the possibility of that kind of retribution. But he had to admit to the old writer: no, no, so often evil just maunders on, even after we've stopped looking. -
I already proved last night that Tony lived. Didn't you read my ketchup covered, Darth Vader lived, the shark from Jaws2 was the shark from Jaws, Peter Sellers himp costume post? It answers all the Sopranos questions, and then some.
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If you can't just admit that the 'logical and factual' interpretation just so happens to be the one you REALLY want to be true, well. Have fun in your world. Your opinion is not substantiated, and if you want to carry your metaphor of the trial, your case is full of circumstantial evidence, heresay and theories. I will say again, I have read through this whole bloated TB and seen no star witness and no smoking gun. It could be true but you haven't sold it.
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Great post from that site. Similar to what I said about people being pissed at the lack of bloodbath at the end of the episode. How long before we have gladiator battles at Yankee stadium?
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is a VERY good synopsis. Thanks for posting it.
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Again!
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tony and carmela have had a huge fight and it looks as if they are splitting for good....tony thinks he si fine with it and gets a call telling him that carmis leavoing tomovetoparis...tony says he doesn;t care buit then he gets a call...silv has woken up...he goes to see him and silv tells him life is precious...you gotta make the most of it and don't let go of the good things you have...tony clicks..holy shit..i still love her...he races out of the hospital and calles meadow."whers ya ma?" "shes gone dad" "what d'yya mean gone?" "a taxi took her to the airprt..she is going to paris" tony hangs up and runs to his car....WHERE PHIL IS WAITING...he has a gun...tony stops. phil "it ends here tony" he pulls the trigger...its empty! tony pulls his gunphil begs for his life and tony laughs "i aintgonna kill you phil....if thereis one thing i have realised thepast 8 years..life isprecious" he lookd up at the hospital and silv has dragged himself to the window..he gives tony the thumbs up. tony jumps in his car and speeds across town to the airport....he gets there and finds the flight to france...it is taking off...he is too late..he slumps.....and then a voice from behind hinm says "tony?" its carm! "what are you doin' here?"
"carmella i am sorry....so sorry...i love you...don't ever leave me" they embrace...carm is crying...tony is crying...i am crying...."i promise it will be different from now on" "what you mean..." "thats right no more crime....other women..i am done..i am out" "oh tony"..they kiss...tony notices someone its agent harris "harris what are you doing here" "topny there you are meadow told me you would be here..they are dropping all charges tony" "what the fuck?" "you are a free man" tony looks at carmella "paris sounds goo this time of year" styx plays over the soundtrack carmella eyes widen in joy!!! we cut to them settling into their seats on the plane.......we see a guy in a members only jacket get seated behind them and few rows over a guy in a truckers hat...a happy couple and some scouts...the members only guy gets up to go to the toilet.....close up on tonys face then a 3 frame flicker of meadow and we cut to black... -
Didn't it end exactly like that? Maybe I watched an alternate version! :-o
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tony finds phil and has him point blank with a gun to his temple.....his phone rings...its carmela...meadow it turns out is pregnant and had been keeping it a secret.....and she is giving birth RIGHT NOW! tony is flushed....phil looks "meadow? what is it" tony "my girl...shes....(starts to laugh) shes having a baby..I'M GONNA BE A GRANDPA!!! HOLY SHIT i gotta get to the hospital" phil gets up...tony lowers his gun Phil "this thing between us ..it can wait family is more important than business...let me drive" phil and tony get into the car and have speed through town to get to the hospital..we cut between this and shots of the family at the hospital with meadow have contractions.....as phil and tony drive they start to realise that this whole war thing is silly and that they still love one another...they get to the hospital and they get there just in time...a doctor announces "its a boy" tony grabs carm "im a granddad!" and smiles...he and phil hug each other and they all enter meadows room and have photos taken....journey plays over the soundtrack...aj is there...paulie...the wheel silvs bed in..he is awake and on the mend!!the whole gang is there. then janice enters the room...pushing junior in his wheelchair..everyone goes silent...tony looks over...he smiles...."come here you" he takes the chair from janice and wheels him over to the baby...junior cries..everyone is talking and laughing and carm pulls tony to one side away from everyone and says "its a good thing you love babies so much" tony is puzzled "wha?" "i'm pregnant!"tony is straled but happy...he hugs her and picks her up "what do you say to the quiet life from now on?" ..he wlaksover to the window and outside he sees the ghostly images of christopher, adriana, big pussy, joey pants, steve buscemi...they all smile and wave its as if they have all forgiven him...he smiles and shakes his head....then he truns to the ward door an a guy in a members only jacket walks in...tony kind of frowns sort of maybe or maybe we see meadow i am not quite sure but we smash cut to black roll credits...and that is how you end it....
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For some reason, I see someone selling Corky Caporale Ajax-laced heroin to shoot up due to the botched hit on the Ukrainian Phil look-alike. Was Corky even a soldier or just a friend of Chris'?
Tony finally gets a lead on Furio and travels to Italy to do the hit himself (due to him going M.I.A. and the Carmela attraction), but changes his mind when he sees Furio sitting down in a diner with a girlfriend and her children, similar to the way he was in Holsten's with his family a few days earlier.
Carlo obviously has to go due to flipping.
Paulie has a heart to heart with comatose Sil about their friendship and how Sil never really forgave him for an almost affair with his wife, Gabriella. As soon as Paulie apologizes, Sil flatlines. Paulie feels a great burden has been lifted and finally accepts Tony's offer before it can be given to Patsy.
Murmur, Christopher's old AA sponsor who told the duck/pig joke, gets with Julianna Skiff and together, they pick up where she and Chris left off on the meth and heroin binge.
The guy who killed Phil, Walden Belfiore, moves up fast and begins to gain everyone's respect and always knows just the right thing to say in any situation. He's considered the pretty boy of the bunch, however, since he always wears cologne even when relaxing in the Bada Bing.
No longer treating Tony, Melfi accepts a new client in David Scatino, the compulsive gambler, who blames Tony for the hell that is his life. This further vindicates Melfi's decision to send Tony on his way. Anybody else got anything? -
In my version of the post-show lives of these characters, Tony receives a call from Janice that Junior had a heart attack. The family leaves before the mystery man exits the bathroom. The hit is called off by Butch or Carmine, 'for the time being'. Butch reasons that dragons can sleep for ages, but when they wake up, 'Tony had better watch the fuck out'.
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"yes, exactly........there are stupid, ignorant people who ignore the truth (like you) and there are people who get it who know what happened." First off junior, I agree Tony died, you're just the dumbshit who doesn't know how to read posts correctly. Second, God do you have some kind of inferiority complex or what? Seriously, do everybody a favor and go kill yourself (slowly). Of course you won't though, cuz you've got so much to live for right? Like sitting there in your one bedroom apt, slowly going blind from self-abuse, dreaming of a world where you never have to interact with living, breathing people, all the while working on that hacker's tan I'm sure you have. I've got to say, since I started reading your oh-so-devastating comments and "witty" insults I've gradually started to feel sorry for you. Not the kind of sorry you feel for homeless people or hurricane victims, no. More like the sorry you feel when there's a fly banging himself against the window, desperately trying to escape, while the whole time the door is standing wide open. Here let me dumb it down for you: YOU = SAD LITTLE RETARD.
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I hear self asphyxiation is quite painful. Give it a shot.
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Brilliant episode, brilliant finale, and for all of the whiners demanding closure, look no further. It's all in there.
TONY: knows that he will end up in court, and later, prison. Chase and the writers basically do all they can to guarantee this, without actually spelling it out. The final scene is simply life through Tony's eyes, as it will be for the rest of his days. Heightened paranoia.
CARMELA: will forever be living a lie- the wife of a monster.
AJ: after a long, desperate search for meaning, falls in love again, gets a new car, and finds himself laughing at the President when he should be outraged. The only way he will get through life, it seems, is to disconnect from the world's problems, and be more like his dad: egoncentric, indulgent, and in therapy. The ultimate joke is that he is now fit for a role in the entertainment business.
CHRISTOPHER: had flipped, and Tony was correct in his instinct to kill him. That's why the cat is staring at his picture. The cat recognizes him as a rat.
PAULIE: was loyal to the end, and Tony was correct in his instinct to let him live. Paulie's last scene, turning down the promotion to remain Tony's underling, only reenforces Paulie's loyalty to his role.
SYL: is a vegetable- the perfect metaphor for Tony's new state of paranoia. As consigliari, Syl was Tony's reliable sense of reason. Simply killing him off would have suggested that Tony could replace him in time. Syl is still present but forever useless.
I know a lot of the audience just wants to see the series end with a scorecard: to know who lives, who dies, and who goes to jail. But the series is far more complex than that. It provides closure with its power of suggestion, and it's a power that far outweighs 99% of other television series. -
Jun 13, 2007 8:56:33 PM CDT
so we arent gonna catch up with the lost talkback
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS!
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The only reason that talkback is still growing is out of some lame e-pride to have the most posts. Pointless.
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chase is somewhat hypocritical. he mocks the viewer's bloodlust with the totally unnecessary head crack after phil is shot, even giving us a puke reaction, and then serves up that ending. the problem with that is the sopranos is popular in part because of its wanton violence, whatever chase wants to believe. granted its nothing without its writing and cast, but the mobster theme is the hook. to claim that he's preventing the viewer from having a "catharsis" is just a euphemism--he's either hypocritically poking fun at us, or he's trying to make everyone happy by leaving it to our own interpretation. and while what i've just said sounds like i hated it, i actually liked the ending because i choose a third possibility: that chase drew from the psychic history of the series to show us tony's death from tony's point of view without explicitly filming it. the world goes black and he hears nothing, tony is dead. that's the one i like, and i hope it's the case. of course, until chase confirms it, i'm just falling into the choose-my-own-ending category.
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lost is better than the sopranos. i know it's not high art but neither is tv. lost is perfect tv.
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-- what you make it. Are you saying Sopranos is worse, because it's better? Now there's high thinking.
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Jun 14, 2007 5:29:14 AM CDT
I THOUGHT YOU GUYS SHUT THIS DOWN?
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
fuck we got some catchin up to do with lost
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Jun 14, 2007 5:29:15 AM CDT
I THOUGHT YOU GUYS SHUT THIS DOWN?
by supercowbell 4 cant stop the cowbell
fuck we got some catchin up to do with lost
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The final scene at the bar
The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.
So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the brothas at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).
Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he.
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Don't mess with us Jews!! Oh, and that Black Snake Moan animation of Harry is funny, and yet, somehow arousing.
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Poor David Chase. He lays it all out, crystal clear, only to find out his audience hasn't been paying attention. a) Tony and Baccala on the lake, episode 78. "You don't hear the one that gets you." "What do you think happens when you die?" "Nothing, everything just goes black." b) Tony has just hit New York c) a guy sitting at the bar who's looking at Tony, and looks ready to hit back d) guy goes to the bathroom beside Tony e) when Tony looks up to see Meadow come in, "everything just goes black". The guy came out of the bathroom firing (nice tribute to Godfather 1). The bullet hit Tony before he would have heard the sound. Ambiguity??? What ambiguity???
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and if so, I'll post again anyway. But I don't remember seeing it in the talkback. The Italian at the counter was in a Members Only jacket. Tony was shot and almost killed in the episode "Member's Only". This was Chase's reason for having the Italian wear the jacket I believe. I was on the fence, but now, not only do I love the finale, but I'm pretty sure Tony is dead.
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The ending was purposefully ambiguous. It's just a fact that it was not advertised what actually happened. If it was so flatly spelled out it would've been a simple matter to confirm it in the interview. It's a possible outcome, yes it was definitely hinted at, but it was not laid out from A to Z. Believe what you feel you have to, but don't tell me it's "the" ending, because you're wrong. Period.
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yes but david chase has also denied that tony dies
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-- I'm pretty sure is not true. He hasn't said much of anything one way or t'other, unless you've got a link for us. I doubt you've got anything, because from what I've seen, his only interview quotes him as saying he's not going to explain or interpret it.
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If Chase shows up in an interview, and says, "Oh Tony lives." Or, "Oh Tony dies. Wasn't it obvious?" That WEAKENS the ending. That makes it a copout after all, in my 'umble opinion. If he wanted to portray Tony's ultimate fate to a certainty, this ending is a failure. If he didn't, it's not. To me it's that simple.
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Finally.
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What?
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I'll be last!
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And David Chase did not fucking deny that Tony died. You can't just lie to prove your point.
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Sorry Popoulus and Supercowbell, my mind merged your posts into one and I thought you were one big asshole instead of two people with legitimate opinions, even if one was mistaken in saying that Chase denied Tony dying. Peace.
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And Vito raped Finn! But it was off-screen!
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Wrong forum, my bad. Last
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I too had to register just to say how crap that ending was!
That really was un-creative...just like those shit works of art we all see and say "i can do that".What a fucking joke.I am very angry...the only satisfaction i get is knowing that i downloaded every epipisode with no ads so those retards dont make a penny out of me! -
Don't you remember the episode where Bobby and Tony discussed getting whacked? Bobby stated that when it happens, you probably won't even know it. Everything just goes black. Oh and American Mythos, LAST.
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For sure.And Last!
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I just watched it again last night and, oh yeah, it's a dream. Go back and watch it. Don't you find that whole 'Tony is having a pretty good day' thing a bit far fetched? It was closer to an episode of Father Knows Best (aside from the Phil wrap-up). Tony nice? Reasonable? Doing things for other people? Showing a consistent light side? Oh, and the kicker: AJ telling everyone at that table that everyone is living in a dream. It's spelled out for the audience. Go back and watch it and look for the subtleties.
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LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST
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....you dumbasses that thing Tony lives are just that.......IDIOTS. Tony dies, it is so simple. I didn't know there were this many stupid Soprano's viewers
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and now let's end this thread.
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downtheriver3, go float away
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What a great "accomplishment".
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I hope.
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This was like two months ago
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Can we get a new talkback for this??
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Who the hell am I kidding, no I don't. I told you so.
http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=280761>1=7703&silentchk=1&
Speaks for itself I think. -
Without the "&" at the end.
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... I think it'll take more than just the three of us to bump it back. Where the hell is the interest?? Come on, people — admire him or despise him, those comments just proved like 60 percent of the people in this TalkBack completely and utterly wrong.
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It stopped on Meadow about to enter the door. It must have had something to do with different coast feeds. One cut away sooner. Odd that in every replay since, it's stopped on Tony.
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I used to be Blud, but I lost my password. Different parts of America saw different endings!
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That even though we don't want to admit it, all us talkbackers are A.J.
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Last, bitches!
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you white devils... HUUHHHHHHHHHH ASIAN NOISE!!!!
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