Movie News

Capone and Eli Roth discuss horror movies, gore, Stephen King, the phrase "Torture Porn" and much more!!!

Published at: June 3, 2007, 12:03 p.m. CST

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Capone is right in the below. I am also sitting down with Mr. Roth... tomorrow, actually. I had no idea Capone had already lined up an interview and to my chagrin he did a great job with it. Now I'm going to have figure out something smart and interesting that Capone didn't already bring up for tomorrow morning's interview. Damn it, Capone! Why couldn't you have dropped the ball on this one so I could just coast tomorrow? Seriously, the interview below is really great. I don't think it'll change the minds of those strongly opposed to Eli Roth's movies, but you can't argue he makes strong points for his side. Enjoy the chat and hopefully my chat will make Capone's look like a peanut!

Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here. If what I'm hearing holds true, sometime in the next couple of days you will have the chance to read a second interview with HOSTEL: PART II writer-director Eli Roth. Quint is apparently going to hold his hostage for a time shortly after the Austin premiere of his latest and greatest at the soon-to-be-laid-to-rest downtown Alamo Drafthouse. I didn't actually find out about Quint's interview until after I spoke with Eli when he visited Chicago recently. We had a fantastic Q&A with a devoted and fun crowd Thursday night, followed by a sit-down one-on-one conversation Friday morning. But I'm guessing that two interviews with Eli Roth done within a week of each other will probably cover vastly different topics with little or no overlap. The man loves to talk and he's fun as hell to listen to. I think I looked at my notes once during the course of our talk, and that was only to look up an actor's name. Although our paths have crossed at several BNATs over the years and we had a nice chat prior to his appearance in Chicago prior to an early screening of HOSTEL a year and a half ago, Eli and I have never actually done the formal interview thing. We were only given 20 minutes (I think it ended up being more like 25), and that's a tough place to be with him or anyone you have a million question for because you have to choose your questions and topics carefully, and inevitably there are burning issues that never get brought up. Still, I think what's here is good stuff, and I guarantee you Quint's interview will be excellent as well. Enjoy this rare opportunity to watch AICN double team Eli Roth

Capone: I see that you've got something happening this weekend at the Drafthouse. That has to be bittersweet for you in what will probably be your last time there.

Eli Roth: It is. I was really, really bummed that I wouldn't get to do a last Drafthouse blow out, but I'm really looking forward to it. And you just know Harry and Tim have something up their sleeves for the show.

C: There are some hints on the site.

ER: There are some hints. I have some idea of what they're going to do, but you know Harry. And I have some surprises of my own for the crowd. It should be fun. When was the first time we actually met? I guess it was at Butt Numb-a-Thon, but then I saw you when I was with Barbara [Nedeljakova, the beautiful villainous of HOSTEL] here. I remember seeing you when I was walking into that screening.

C: You just happened to spot me as I was running out of the theater before the screening, and we did talk for a while. But the BNAT before that, you and I ended up in Quint's car together going to dinner or the evening-before party.

ER: Holy shit. That's right. You never know who somebody is at those things. Somebody probably told me your name was Steve, but then they'll say, "That's Capone" and I'll go, "Oh, Capone! Nice to meet you, man." And I gotta tell you that Boaz [Yakin, executive producer on both HOSTEL film, who also directed the terrible Brittany Murphy vehicle UPTOWN GIRLS] was really, really upset about UPTOWN GIRLS also. [laughs] And let me tell you, he was just as upset as you were on that one, and they really put him through the ringer on that one. You were correct in your review. [If you really want to see what Eli's talking about, read my scathing review here]

C: You must be exhausted already from this press tour, and it's just started.

ER: I am, but I'm excited. It's exhilarating, finally watching the movie with audiences. You dream, you have these scenes in your head and you're shooting them. But last night was only the second group of people to see it. And I'm really happy that the ending just kills. Because I knew that this ending would have to be the show stopper of the entire HOSTEL oeuvre of kills, this has to be the one that's gotta fucking bring the house down. And I have to compete with what's out now. HOSTEL came out against KING KONG and NARNIA, and it's amazing that it did what it did. But I realize that HOSTEL, PART II is competing with PIRATES and SPIDER-MAN and SHREK 3 and OCEAN'S THIRTEEN. These are monsters with huge movie stars. And I was like, if I have a great kill, great kill. If I can do that great kill that everyone's talking about, it will trump that weekend.

C: And I should applaud you for really exploring the homo-erotic themes that were only hinted at in the first film.

ER: Getting some lesbionics.

C: And a shocking amount of cock as well.

ER: There's a lot of sausage. If there was one complaint I heard consistently from girls, girls who loved it, they would say there was a little too much female nudity and it made them uncomfortable because they saw it with their boyfriend and he was looking at the girls. I said, I get that. We actually had naked guys for HOSTEL I, but they didn't show up. All the dudes canceled, and no one on the crew wanted to do it. We had Eythor's [Gudjonsson, who played Oli] ass, but that's about as much as we got. That's how I responded to people who said I was exploiting women. You think I'm exploiting women? Here you go. We got a nude model; there's a nude dude. But because it's in art class it's "art" and not exploitation. I literally have it in there just to fuck with critics. Because I have the girls sketching him, so technically they're not exploiting him. But if the girls didn't have their sketch pads and there's naked guy standing there, then I'd be exploiting men. It's hilarious to me that a girl with a sketch pad is what makes the difference. That's why I did that.

C: I was given a handful of tickets to give out to the screening last night, and I deliberately showed favor to couples who e-mailed me for them because I like the idea of women seeing this film to. And I had no idea that male nudity would factor so heavily into the movie.

ER: That's great. We want women to see it. Thank you very much for doing that. Because the early word on the screenings...I mean if people only see the posters and if they've seen the first one, they think, "Oh god, is this going to be Eli's sick fantasy with girls getting brutalized?" People now clearly see that it's not. That woman last night who said that her kids took her there, I love this movie. You see the girls going nuts. I do think it is a feminist horror film. We have three lead female characters [Eli's switches on his best Ladies Man voice] for the ladies. I wanted to write great roles and explore these themes further, but we don't need the sexuality that we had in the first one. That was part of it. The guys making fun of the hookers, and the they effectively become the hookers they were making fun of where someone walks into a room and does whatever they want to with them for their own pleasure.

C: That falls in with the social commentary elements of your films and all great horror films.

ER: I don't shy away from social commentary at all. It's very strong. It's one of the things, I think, people look for in my films. I have very strong opinions about things, and I think horror movies are a great way express that. What I was saying last night was that I don't want people to feel stupid if they're not getting that. I think first and foremost, the movie's job is to entertain. And I think when people watch a movie for the first time, they're in the story and they're scared and there's gore and it's all surprises. It's really when you watch it the second time on DVD that they start to see, "Okay, I can see the parallels between what these guys are doing in Amsterdam and what happens later to them in Slovakia. The first one is really about exploitation and the way people exploit each other for their own pleasure, and do unto others as you want done to you. What they do to hookers is what they have done to them, and nothing is ever enough for anybody in the movie. Everybody wants a little bit more. And they could leave at any time, but they don't because they want more. Ultimately that's these businessmen [in HOSTEL: PART II, played perfectly by Roger Bart and Richard Burgi]. I always felt like Josh and Paxton and Oli[the characters in HOSTEL], if they'd kept doing this for 25 years, would wind up as the businessmen. And so when I was writing the roles of the businessmen, I basically saw those guys 25 years later would be at that point. Hookers in Amsterdam are boring. They'd done that already and they're looking for that next level, and they're very frustrated in their own lives. Roger's been effectively…his fucking wife has effectively cut his balls off. His wife and kids just ignore him, they leave without saying goodbye, and he's left with the dishes. You get a little glimpse of Stuart's home life, and you see how emasculated the guy is and how frustrated he is. And I know a lot of people like that who can't stand up to someone in their own life, and they take it out on someone weaker and more helpless. That's what these guys are doing. But I don't want the film to feel like…like I felt CRASH shoved a message down my throat and didn't even give me the credit for being smart enough to get it on my own. I like movies where you can watch them again years later, like MOTHER'S DAY [1980], those two guys were named Ike and Addley, which I never put together until I was older, Eisenhower and Adley Stevenson. And when you listen to the commentary, you notice there's a television on in every single shot in the movie in the house, and these guys are just the overflow of the pop culture sewer. Whether it came across or not, they really thought it out. There's actual thought that went into MOTHER'S DAY, and for years I thought it was just a splatter film. Then you realize that there is something more there, and there's a reason I liked it.

C: Does the vibe of the violence change when you have your primary victims be men rather than women?

ER: You have be careful how you treat the violence. I don't want the movie to be an unpleasant experience. I don't want people to feel like they got punched in the stomach for two hours. I don't think that's enjoyable. I want it to be a rollercoaster ride that is better and scarier than the first one, like ALIENS or ROAD WARRIOR. That was the kind of sequel I wanted to make. I want people to go, "That was so much better than the first one." But I think having girls inherently ratchets up the tension. You're just more nervous thinking, "Oh God." Also, they made security improvements at the factory. You're not getting in or out of there unless they want you to. You can't just run away; you can't just escape. We make that very clear. If someone's going to escape, they're going to have to find a pretty clever way to do it. It was very difficult and challenging to write scenes that would be scary but also scenes that would be watchable and effective. Brutally killing someone, that was the shock of the first one. We really get to know Derek Richardson [who played Josh]; we're sure he's the main character. And then he's killed out of nowhere, so horribly. And the tone completely turns. And you're left with Jay Hernandez [Paxton], who you don't really know and you don't really like him at that point because he's kind of been a jerk and in the background. He's not a bad guy, but he's not your favorite guy, and he slowly emerges as the hero. We don't need to do that tonal shift now. Now we can start off in that dark place. Now that we know where they're heading, we can watch it objectively. It was that scene in the car [in HOSTEL]--it wound up being one of my favorite scenes in the film--where he's riding to the factory with Natalya, and she's like, "Do you want gum?" And he says, "No." "Too bad for you." The double meaning in that line, because when we know where he's headed, it's really tense and scary. And I said, okay, that's how I'm going to approach the writing of the second one. We know where everyone is headed, let's use that to the film's advantage. And I saw how people responded to the gore, like the eyegasm and the girls getting run over, and I saw also how people responded to the scene in the locker room with Rick Hoffman. And that was just a dialog scene, no scary music, no scary lighting, no violence.

C: That's possibly my favorite scene in the film.

ER: I think it's my favorite scene. That and the car scene and the pub scene are the scenes that I watch over and over that I'm most proud of, that I feel really really worked. And I said, I'm going to make the whole movie like these scenes, and have that dark, sick, you might be laughing but you're uncomfortable, creepy, ominous tone and a real sense of dread. And that's what I think these early-'70s Italian Giallo films did that I really hadn't discovered until I went to Italy last year with HOSTEL and tracked down the DVDs and watch Sergio Martino's TORSO, Fernando De Lio's TO BE TWENTY (AVERE VENT'ANNI), and Aldo Lato's NIGHT TRAIN MURDERS. It's a LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT ripoff set on a train and it's great. In all three of these movies, you've got these groups of college-age girls in Italy going on trip somewhere and horrible things happen. And you just dread every move they make, but the girls are smart, so you can't blame them for the decisions they're making. But they are great characters and great performances, but you'll watch it going "Don't do it, don't do it" because you know what's coming.

C: Let me throw this phrase at you. It's one that is getting used with increasing frequency on our site, and I want to know what it means to you. Do you embrace it, do you reject it, do you ignore it? Torture porn.

ER: Yeah. I understand it. I've heard myself referred to as a gore-teur or gore-nography. I think that I understand what David Edelstein [of New York Magazine, credited with coining the term] said when he said audiences were getting off on the violence. What that does though is it immediately discredits the film. You know, when you watch pornography, you watch it, you get off, and that's it. I think it's more reflective of the critic than the film. It shows a lack of understanding and ability to understand and appreciate a horror film as something more than just a horror film. The gore blinds them to any intelligence that goes into making the film. And I think that the term "torture porn" genuinely says more about the critic's limited understanding of what horror movies can do than about the film itself.

C: In a short space of time, the phase has almost become a positive expression. I hear a film described that way, and my interest is piqued.

ER: Yeah, and I think as long as people see it as a sub-genre of horror and not a sub-genre of pornography. When the term first came out it was basically saying it was a sub-genre of pornography. I really think it's the violence in these movies that blinds people to the intelligence behind it. I think Pasolini's SALO was so shocking to people that they could see beyond, you know, oh my God, there's people eating shit, there's people eating glass. And it's like, yeah, and look what people were really doing during World War II. It's pretty much the same. It's like any of these movies, like DAWN OF THE DEAD. The violence blinded people, and 30 years later they see it as an allegory for America cannibalizing itself and becoming one big shopping mall and people becoming these mindless consumers. I think it's an easy way to categorize and classify things. That's what you can't do even if you look at CABIN FEVER or HOSTEL. People will say, It was totally inconsistent. Yeah, that's the tone I like. I like mixing it up and taking pieces of different things. That's what drove people crazy about DONNIE DARKO. They didn't know what shelf to put it on in the video store. Is it science fiction? Is it drama? Is it horror? Is it mystery? What is that film? It's a beautiful film. I'm definitely doing stuff that's classified in the horror realm, but I want it to be smarter and better. William Friedkin, he told me that when they made THE EXORCIST, he said, "We made a drama." That's how I approached it. I shot it to say this is what's really happening. Obviously I was going for scares and gore, but it's amazing that when you have that level of violence in your film, people automatically discredit you.

C: I saw that clip on your MySpace page of you on Fox News guy kind of going at it.

ER: With Neil Cavuto. He's had me on again since and we actually had a really great talk. After 300, he had me on. I don't know if anyone can YouTube that, but the Monday after 300 opened, I was talking about violence and its therapeutic affect. I was saying that there are soldiers in Iraq that write me and tell me that HOSTEL is one of the most popular movies in the military. They love it. I wrote back and asked, "Why on earth would you watch HOSTEL after what you see in a day?" And he wrote back and said that he was out during the day with his friends and they saw somebody's face get blown off, and then they watched the movie that night with about 400 people and they were all screaming. But when they're on the battlefield, you have be a machine. You can't react emotionally. You have to tactically respond to a situation. And these guys are going out every day seeing this horrible stuff, and they're not allowed to be scared. But it all gets stored up, and it's got to come out. And when they watch HOSTEL, it's basically saying, for the next 90 minutes, not only are you allowed to be scared, you're encouraged to be scared because it's okay to be terrified. It doesn't mean you're a coward; it means you're scared of the movie, and that's okay. It's socially acceptable, and they let those feelings out. And I think to a much lesser degree, I think that's the purpose they serve in society right now. And if you think about, since September 11, a lot of these teenagers were 10 or 11 years old at the time. Now they're 15, 16, 17. They've grown up in those formative adolescent years with the war in Iraq, images coming home from Iraq, people they know coming back from Iraq, and the fact that they're next if there's draft. I remember when the Gulf War broke out when I was 19, all my friends were thinking, Oh my God, is there going to be a draft? And that's what's going on right now. These people are terrified, and they need to let it out and they need these images to scare them. And I think that's what any art form does, whether it's a piece of music or a book or a painting. It stirs up feeling, it helps you let those feelings out.

C: One of the points you brought up in that interview was how horror films also reflect people's frustration with the current administration in troubled times. I don't think he liked that.

ER: But now I can see, I mean, that was a year ago, April 2006, when the DVD came out. But you can see now, everything I talked about, it's still going on. It's actually gotten worse.

C: Let's talk a little about casting. When you cast Heather Matarazzo or Bijou Phillips in a film, they bring something familiar with them. Heather will probably be dealing with playing Dawn Wiener in WELCOME TO THE DOLLHOUSE and Bijou often plays a party girl in things like BULLY, HAVOC, and BLACK AND WHITE. But I don't think a lot of people know Lauren German. We don't know what to expect from her character, which is perfect because there is such a shift in her during the course of the film.

ER: You really get to know her as it goes on. Lauren German in one of the best kept secrets in Hollywood. Fans of the site will know her as the hitchhiker from TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE [remake]. She gets her head blown off in the van. She's amazing in that five minutes. I say that and everybody knows who I'm talking about, she's that good in the part. So she's very intense actor. I know with Heather, everyone goes, okay Dawn Wiener, and with Bijou, they know these stories about her, they know her as kind of this wild child. But I think Heather and Bijou are such superb actors that they transcend any baggage you might have brought to the film. I think it's gone very quickly. And Lauren, nobody has any associations with her. A lot of her stuff has been independent, some of it hasn't been released yet, art house films. And I think she's clearly ready to break out. It's amazing to talk to her because her favorite movie is ANCHORMAN. She could do that broad comedy as well. I just wanted people who are the best actors, and they won it in the audition. That's where all of them won their roles. Same with Roger Bart and Richard Burgi, you make everyone read and you see who feels right. We had girls read together, and that group of girls, we liked the way they looked together, the way they naturally fit together. I believed everything they were saying, the dynamic of the three of them. The same way I liked the dynamic of the two guys.

C: I mentioned that weird coincidence that both men were former "Desperate Housewives" cast members.

ER: They'd met once in 20 years. They'd only met once at a photo shoot. And they were instantly best friends.

C: I'd known Roger's work for a few years. Before it went to Broadway, "The Producers" did a run in Chicago with the Broadway cast, so I knew him from that and from the STEPFORD WIVES remake, so I always thought the man was gay.

ER: Oh everyone thought he was gay, and it's great to torment Roger about that. An article in one of the gay magazines said, you know, "Movies this summer--Why is it gay?" And for our movie, it said Heather Matarazzo and Roger Bart. And a journalist asked me, "So you cast two gay actors..." And I called Roger right away and said, "Hey, guess what this guy just asked me?" But you know, Roger's a musical theatre guy, and he also plays those flaming guys like Carmen Ghia in "The Producers," and he's so funny that people just naturally assume that he's gay. In the same way when you see Nathan Lane in a campy role. But, no, Roger is not gay, so that makes it hilarious. He's amazing; he's so goddamn funny. It’s so funny he's Dr. Frankenstein [in the musical version of Mel Brooks' YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN]. And he loves attention; he loves being the center of attention.

C: Since we're running out of time, I want to talk to you about your Stephen King adaptation CELL. This is your first film that you will not have written. Are you concerned that you're going to be ultra-critical of the script that comes to you next week?

ER: Of course. But I'm also working with really great writers. Sure it's my first time doing it, but if I'm going to do this to see if I can do it…I mean, look, obviously Spielberg does it, millions of directors do it, this is a good way to do it with a Stephen King book. I'm also working with two of the greatest writers in Hollywood Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski [co-writers of ED WOOD, THE PEOPLE VS. LARRY FLYNT, MAN ON THE MOON, and the upcoming King adaptation 1408], and if there's something I want to change tonally, I'll direct them as I direct any department. If I let my DP come in with his own list of shots, I'd say, that's not how we're shooting the film. If I saw my production designer designing stuff without my direction, I'd go, "That's not how it's going to be." So I have to approach it the way I'd approach any department, and give very strong, clear direction. And obviously, I've been very busy with HOSTEL: PART II that I haven't had a chance to focus, so what I'll do is get the script. I'm sure they will write a great draft, but if it's not what I'm looking for, we'll get it to that and I'll work with them they way I work with a cast member or DP or editor.

C: Do you have Stephen King movies?

ER: I love CARRIE, and I love CREEPSHOW, I love THE SHINING, I love 'SALEM'S LOT. Those are all really terrific; there are so many great ones. I mean THE SHINING is it for me.

C: You may be introducing yourself to a new audience by adapting one of his books.

ER: I think they'll be a lot of crossover audience. They'll at least know that he had to have seen HOSTEL to approve it. But I told everyone, it's going to be an adaptation, not a re-creation. I'm not filming the book; I'm using the book as source material and writing a script based on that. That was the first thing I said, I don't want to piss of Stephen King. I hear he didn't like THE SHINING, and THE SHINING's my favorite. I said, As long as I can change stuff I'll be involved, and he said it's totally cool. [As the publicist comes in to break up our cozy chat, Eli adds one more thing.] I just want to say that it's the readers, the fans that made HOSTEL really send a strong message to Hollywood when a little $4 million movie knocked out the $200 million lion off the number one spot, and we really went out there to make a better film. And I do think that this ending will be that scene. I don't care how much money people spend on movie stars or special effects, I don't think they're going to come close to the reaction that the end of HOSTEL: PART II is going to get. I think it's going to be that movie moment of the summer, and I think it will go down as one of the best horror movie kills.

C: I believe that when entertainment writers begin writing their summer movie wrap up pieces, you're going to see a whole lot of people trying to figure out clever ways to describe that scene.

ER: People are going to be genuinely shocked. I predict that there will be theaters that pull the print.

C: Really?

ER: I think that there is going to be some theater somewhere where people are so outraged at it, they're going to demand that they just don't show it anymore.

C: And I have no doubt that Lionsgate will promote the hell out that fact when that happens.

ER: Yeah, I know. I'll be so happy. [laughs]



-Capone capone@aintitcoolmail.com



Readers Talkback

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  • June 3, 2007, 9:47 a.m. CST

    First!

    by Raymar

    I am immortal now!

  • June 3, 2007, 9:47 a.m. CST

    first

    by Magic Rat

    woot!

  • June 3, 2007, 9:47 a.m. CST

    GAR!

    by Magic Rat

    second, by a nose.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Six seconds too late my friend!

    by Raymar

    Um...yeah, t. porn is...vile.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Why not ask him if he's happy about the workprint?

    by JackPumpkinhead

    By his logic, he should be ecstatic.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:57 a.m. CST

    uh, Quint

    by IJUSTLIKEMOVIES

    "but you can't argue he makes strong points for his side." Don't worry, I won't, and he didn't make any.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Fuck! I thought I was first.

    by heywood jablomie

    This "oogiest ending of all time" thing is surely horseshit. From the tutelage of Tarantino, who tried to get his P.T. Barnum on with Grindhouse. My prediction: it ain't gonna work.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:02 a.m. CST

    HA!

    by lost.rules

    Not first.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:15 a.m. CST

    ManofStool

    by Holodigm

    you don't go to horror movies to have a rollicking roller coaster funtime adventure. you want to get frightened the fuck out. and while i'm not the biggest hostel fan, what happens in these films is a pretty horrifying thing.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:15 a.m. CST

    i don't understand the appeal.

    by Lane

    and i don't know that i ever will. what happened to humanity?

  • June 3, 2007, 10:18 a.m. CST

    ....

    by tile_mcgillus

    After reading that interview I must say he came off rather unintelligible. His defense of his product was a little disconcerting...and not very well thought out.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:20 a.m. CST

    the problem i have with hostel

    by Magic Rat

    is not such much what's displayed onscreen, but the whole concept of people paying money to sit down with a bucket of popcorn and a soda to watch people being realistically tortured and brutally killed. The whole concept disturbs me in a way much differently than the killing in a Friday the 13th or a war movie or something like that. I'll admit I'm a cover-your-eyes type of guy during squemish moments in horror movies, but I can still appreciate killings if they're somewhat removed from reality by at least a half-step. Hostel wasn't, and I felt bad afterwards about wanting to watch it. I'm not seeing the second one and if anyone out there is looking forward to this, fine, it's a free country, but I hope this movie doesn't become a hit franchise, because that would signal something very distrubing about the American psyche today.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:20 a.m. CST

    TORTURE PORN!!!!!!

    by lost.rules

    Satan's two favorite words. I prefer the second word myself, but I feel all guilty when I clean up afterwards.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:21 a.m. CST

    You forgot two important questions...

    by Sledge Hammer

    Why does your direction fucking suck so much, and a follow up, do you even care? Because he sure as hell hasn't gotten any better over the past few years.<p>As for this interview, could you have possibly been any more sycophantic? I mean Jesus Christ, I could almost hear you sucking his cock with every word, some of it was just uncomfortable to read...I amazed that you could keep a straight face. <p>I mean look, I'm not offended by the content of these films at all, and if people enjoy these things then so be it, but what amazes, and even actively grates on me is how massively incompentent of a film maker Roth is, both in terms of direction and script, seemingly utterly unable to create even the barest hint of character or atmosphere in his films, and yet he gets constantly hyped to the moon and talked up so much, particularly around here. He's no Romero or Argento or Cronenberg or Carpenter, hell he's not even a Steve Miner, Sean S Cunningham or a Jack Sholder. He's barely an Albert Pyun...and that's on his best day. Even AICN whipping boy Paul WS Anderson easily wipes the floor directorially with this guy. Hell, even Mr Generic Horror Mediocrity himself, Mick Garris, is far better than Roth has even hinted at being. <p>If some people are able to like or tolerate his films, fine, but stop selling him as "the future of horror" when the most horrific things about him are his direction and god-awful writing. And reading "social commentary" into an Eli Roth film? Fuck...Off. Next you'll be telling us about the amazing multi-layered complexities that Uwe Boll brings to his filmic projects.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:22 a.m. CST

    as for the interview

    by Holodigm

    interesting. i spent a portion of a paper last year writing about hostel (not positive), but this interview makes me want to go back and rewatch it. i agree wholeheartedly with roth about horror movies needing depth, and in the paper i was knocking hostel for not having that. but apparently it's a lot deeper than i thought. kudos to him. <br>and i just started reading cell. i really hope he keeps the opening scene intact, that is going to be one batshit-insane sequence. i hope the book's at the same intensity all the way through...except without the crash-like commentary on commercialism. in the first 30 pages it has enough for an entire book - fashion and cell phones made us zombies, i get it okay?

  • June 3, 2007, 10:23 a.m. CST

    oh

    by Magic Rat

    I should also mentioned that I enjoyed Cabin Fever. So I don't have an anti-Roth vendetta or anything.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Can never get enough sausage!

    by lost.rules

    Eh, Eli?

  • June 3, 2007, 10:26 a.m. CST

    OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!

    by UMAGA

    There's at least THREE articles on Hostel 2 on the main page. THREE. Do you really think users of this site are THAT interested in this sequel? No. It just so happens that the director is a friend of this site, therefore his film just be pimped above all others. It's really fucking pathetic and comes off like you don't faith in the movie to begin with.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:26 a.m. CST

    The amount of tension that Wes craven gets out of the

    by emeraldboy

    opening of Scream has never been bettered. Even by craven himself. Scream was all about body count and milking new ways of killing. Scream's opening and the demise of Henry winkler, were the only good things about that movie and of course they made money because that is what craven knows how to do better than anyone. Make money. Red eye was worst movie, i didnt bother seeing cursed. Cabin fever was a terrible film as was Wrong turn. As i avoided seeing hostel, i have no interest in seeing hostel 2. Paradise lost(touristas) has openend her at the weekend and I wont be seeing that. I heard a theory, which I want to run by you all. Torture Porn is a metaphor for what is happening in IRaq. discuss.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:33 a.m. CST

    And another thing, gore is not horror...

    by Sledge Hammer

    ...Gore is merely a by product of horror. It's an element, an ingredient, an optional topping in horror film making, a tool to help underscore danger and consequence, and complement the created atmosphere of the piece. Horror, when done right, is all about one thing, atmosphere, and that's something that Roth's films are just massively lacking in. And honestly, when gore becomes the point of a film rather than just a complementary aside then the film clearly has no point at all. That's the problem that I have with Roth's films, for him it seems like it's all about the gore, that's his end game, and that to me just underlines how little he truly understands the horror genre and what makes for great horror.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:33 a.m. CST

    It's a funny movie. Hostel.

    by lost.rules

    Just not scary. Or well written. Or well acted. Which all just contributes to the hillarity. I guess I perfer my horror films to actually be scary. Hostel seems like it should've been directed by Mel Gibson.A Russian is worth less than American. A Jew is worth most of all...

  • June 3, 2007, 10:33 a.m. CST

    suffering

    by Magic Rat

    I think it comes down to the suffering. I can handle death, but I can't handle suffering. I can watch someone shoot a dog on screen. But I can't watch someone beat a dog to death. And I think there is a difference, even if death is the eventual result.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:35 a.m. CST

    You can imagine the firestorm there

    by emeraldboy

    would be if one of the site owners, sat down with Paul WS anderson. That would drive the tb backers crazy. or Bay.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Torture Porn is Torture Porn is...

    by Gandalf the redwhiteandblue

    torture porn. The fact is people are going to these types of flicks to "get off" on the blood, gore and all that nonsense. I don't think it reflects the critic much. If you see any of these flicks (which I refuse to do now) in a packed theater opening night most are gore freaks. This raises the tolerance for this torture porn. For example The Hills Have Eyes had a rape scene involving a gun to a baby's head. Now Hostel two Kidnapping and torturing beautiful women (the only kind of women that exist in these films naturally) for two hours. I did not begin to read this TB yet, but I know that I can't be the only who hates this demeaning, crap.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Gotta disagree w/ Eli's take on Torture Porn

    by DarthTarter

    I've been defending to an extent Eli & Hostel but more out of my hate for censorship and blaming movies/music/games for ones actions than than any kind of respect for the product. But the violence in these movies ARE like porn. When watching porn do you sit there and watch the talking scenes? Do you watch every second of a 30 minute scene? Of course not, you eventually get tired and skip to the end. I had customers tell me flat out they got bored, zoomed ahead to the gory scenes, then got interested again. The fact that Eli refers to the eye scene as "eyegasm" just made him a hypocrite. That was indeed the money-shot of the whole film.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Roth confirmed what I thought

    by liljuniorbrown

    He's a sick fuck and Capone is not far behind. I like horror movies,I'm not opposed to violence in films,but come on. I've served my country and I know there are some sick fucks in the military as well (watch Harsh Times,very true) but anyone who gets a kick out of watching a girl being hung upside down while being butchered so some one can bath in her blood is just a sick fucking weirdo. Roth can claim that people like me "just don't get it" but deep down he knows th truth,he's a hack who gets off on seeing women being tortured,and apparently he loves the "sausage" .

  • June 3, 2007, 10:51 a.m. CST

    I dunno about this one...

    by freemind

    I enjoyed hostel for two resons: Lots of Tits and Lot of Gore. I liked that the killings were realistic, it made the movie better since you could see it happen in the real world but.....now with hostel part 2, wer're also gonna get huge amounts of cock, and roth says that it's for the girls. I dunnno about that one cuz when i went so see hostel, i went to see it with4 girls and 1 dude, and everybody besides me hated the movie, the ho's didint hate it because of the tit-fest but because of the killins so i dont think lot of cock is gonna get the ho's to see it. Frankly, i'll still see part 2 on opening night, but i'll cover my eyes during the really scary scenes AKA the ones with the cock.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Wanker.

    by C Legion

    Need I say more? OK then, shit filmmaker. Nice combo, huh?

  • June 3, 2007, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Eli Roth

    by tehgreekhammer

    Is a hack. Maybe Ill check out Hostel 2 on DVD, but after going to see the first one (based on the rave reviews on this site) and the complete and utter piece of shit that was Cabin Fever (again based on Harrys review of the film). Eli Roth is nothing more than a craptastic director.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:55 a.m. CST

    question for you Man of Stool

    by DarthTarter

    I've read your thoughts and agree with you on many points, but my question is this. Do you think that morally a director/studio should NOT make and release these movies because they are sick and pointless or do you think they have the right to create such tripe and it is the *audience's* moral responsibility to avoid said film? Because I think there is a big difference, and I would like to know your thoughts. I grew up on horror films and wanted to be a make-up artist, but like a fool never did anything about it. I HATE cgi gore effects since they never look real. I enjoy seeing gore on film more for the hard work that goes into these effects than the actual fact that someone is being killed or tortured. I just don't like the idea that because of someone else's moral stance films get censored. One day it's just gore in a horror film, the next it's sexual, political or religious reasons. Where does it stop?

  • June 3, 2007, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Give me a break

    by Jack Burton

    Could you guys felate him more? Talking about "Hostel" as a classic? You're interest is piqued when a movie is described as "torture porn"? Lovely. The majority of us horror fans have moved on. Torture porn isn't scary. It's just sick, repetitive and utterly one note. Now I get to look forward to Roth's "interpretation" of Cell? Great. Dude, I'm serious when I say you are as bad as Uwe Boll. I don't think Uwe deep down thinks he is all that good a director. You seem to think you are some kind of auteur. You're not, and your 15 minutes are winding down.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:05 a.m. CST

    "Hostel" movies sound neither fun nor enlightening

    by Mullah Omar

    I haven't seen either one and don't have much interest in doing so. I love horror and action movies, but these seem like neither. Reading about these films, I never get the sense that the audience is supposed to care about the characters or even the story. So what is left other than just a violent spectacle?

  • June 3, 2007, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Perv or not perv, "torture porn" etc. is not the point.

    by Christopher3

    The point is that Roth is an untalented hack who makes bad movies. Christ, there's really nothing to the guy beyond all the self-aggrandizement and on-air douchery. Why he's exalted on this site when his filmmaking gifts are really around the level of Paul WS Anderson or SciFi's movie of the week is beyond me. If you want to see excellent and truly scary gore this summer, patronize Juan Carlos Fresnadillo's "28 Weeks Later." That guy has some skill. Roth, on the other hand, is like the Harmony Korine of new horror.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:08 a.m. CST

    "Torture Porn" is an absolutely accurate description.

    by uss cygnus

    I beg to differ, Mr. King. Films like "Hostel" and the like are are just a series of scenes which set up sadistic and horrifying violence and gore leading to death. Lather, rinse, repeat. Conventional Porn is the same thing except with sexual acts. The fact that someone may "Get in, get off, and get out" does not change the fact that most are those who will watch the porn from beginning to end and put in another. "Torture Porn" is death for death's sake, sadism for sadism's sake, and the lowest common denominator of human civilization as we know it. There is a HUGE and distinct difference between a "Horror" and a "Torture Porn" film, and you, of all people, Mr. King, should know the difference.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:09 a.m. CST

    I guess were all in agreement then.

    by tehgreekhammer

    Eli Roth and hs movies blow. <p> NEXT. <p> Im predicting Hostel 2 barely cracks the top five box office next weekend.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:18 a.m. CST

    Who the fuck does he think he is???

    by lowman

    "But I told everyone, it's going to be an adaptation, not a re-creation. I'm not filming the book; I'm using the book as source material and writing a script based on that. That was the first thing I said, I don't want to piss of Stephen King. I hear he didn't like THE SHINING, and THE SHINING's my favorite. I said, As long as I can change stuff I'll be involved...." Are you kidding me? Now I know CELL is not King's best work, but He let a hack who makes toture porn dictate to him that he is gonna change whatever he like????????

  • June 3, 2007, 11:24 a.m. CST

    I'll wait...

    by JumpinJehosaphat

    ... until Hostel 3 hits! Now THAT promises to be some sick shit.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:31 a.m. CST

    SPOILERS

    by Tripman5000

    Lots of badly written spoliers follow. B E W A R E The knob slicing scene was terribly poor-the blokes cock grew about 8 inches when it was sliced off The ugly tart went on a boat trip who she said could not speak English,but when he did,she didn't seem to be surprised in the slightest WHY didn't the bloke help the character runnign through the woods when he was forced to leave the village after being beaten up?Surely he was leaving anyway,so gicing her a lift wouldn't have hurt?Uttering"I can't help you"and driving off made no sense whatsoever. Why those fucking kids again?Why was one shot for no apparent reason? Why the hugely obvious flase nose that was so obviously going to be bitten off?Looked like it was just slapped on 5 seconds before filming! Yes,these comments are random and make no sense.they are also rather crude,crass and amateurish......much in the style of the utter pile of stinming shit that is Hostel Part Two. Number Two would have been a more apt subtitle....

  • June 3, 2007, 11:34 a.m. CST

    SPELLING

    by Tripman5000

    I was so pissed off writing my previous post that I mis-spelt some words-sorry!

  • June 3, 2007, 11:37 a.m. CST

    Budding Film-makers take note

    by MontyPigeon

    Forget the plot and make sure you have an end scene. If the rest of the movie is complete shit then let them forget what they just saw by having a classic kill for the end scene. Why not make the 3 minute end scene into a 90 minute film with different angles of that end scene running throughout like the Tv Show 24? The time of movies is over people, its all about the end scene. It shows that the director has no faith at all in the rest of the film as that interview clearly states.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Ratings...

    by viranth

    How can this movie be rated R, while Showgirls is NC-17? You do see a penis in Hostel 2, but barely any boobs.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:39 a.m. CST

    SPOILERS(CORRECTED!lol!)

    by Tripman5000

    Lots of badly written spoilers follow. B E W A R E! The knob slicing scene was terribly poor-the blokes cock grew about 8 inches when it was sliced off . The ugly tart went on a boat trip with a bloke whom, she said could not speak English,but when he did,she didn't seem to be surprised in the slightest! WHY didn't the bloke help the character running through the woods when he was forced to leave the village after being beaten up?Surely he was leaving anyway,so giving her a lift wouldn't have hurt?Uttering"I can't help you"and driving off made no sense whatsoever. Why those fucking kids again? Why was one shot for no apparent reason? Why the hugely obvious false nose that was so obviously going to be bitten off?Looked like it was just slapped on 5 seconds before filming! Yes,these comments are random and make no sense.they are also rather crude,crass and amateurish......much in the style of the utter pile of stinking shit that is Hostel Part Two. Number Two would have been a more apt subtitle.... Jun 3rd, 2007 11:31:07 AM

  • June 3, 2007, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Eli Roth = Dino Velvet

    by LuckyLuciano

    I know he'll take it as a compliment. It's not.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Cell

    by lost.rules

    Haven't we had enough crappy zombie movies? Land of the Dead was disappointing. So was 28 Weeks later. Plus, I'm zombied out. It seems like there's been 20 new zombie movies in the past five years.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:47 a.m. CST

    I'll give Roth credit that he did a presentable...

    by rbatty024

    job defending his films. I've always thought he wasn't too bright but maybe he's a smart guy with a dearth of talent. I don't think the "message" in his films are terribly bright or orignal, and I don't think the horror setting successfully recontextualizes them. I won't rule out torture films as a whole, but I just haven't seen any that are anything other than trite.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:48 a.m. CST

    It just goes to show you...

    by tehgreekhammer

    How much of a hack ELi Roth is. He goes on to state that his favorite Stephen King movie (NOT BOOK! BUT MOVIE) Is one of hs favorite horror movies of all time. <p> Well Didnt Stephen King hate all of the changes that Kubrick made to his original source material? <p> Didnt he come out publicly (not to an Alan Moore level) and state that he was unhappy with the final product? <p> Hence the reason for the ABC miniseries version of the Shining starring Tim Daly (or the other guy from Wings) complete with Giant Garden Bush animals? <p> I had some hopes for Cell. Now it looks like were going to get a big honking pile of turd.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:50 a.m. CST

    I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH TORTURE PORN !

    by Pound Sand

    and it cut my ear off with phallus shaped straight razor, rammed it down my throat and streamed the whole thing on teh interweb.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:52 a.m. CST

    C'mon people, it's FOR THE TROOPS

    by DrDestructo

    If you don't like Hostel, you HATE AMERICA. All these supposed "arguments" for how deep and profound the Hostel movies supposedly are merely highlight the truth of how shallow and exploitative they really are.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:55 a.m. CST

    i've never seen an Eli Roth film

    by newc0253

    and, having read through this talkback, i have even less interest in doing so.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Cobra-Kai:

    by tehgreekhammer

    I thought I told you to sweep the leg? <p> POUND SAND: <p> Thats some funny shit dude...

  • June 3, 2007, 12:01 p.m. CST

    tehgreekhammer

    by CorpseRide

    your post makes no sense.<p> yeah, King hated Kubrick's Shining, JUST AS ROTH UNDERLINES... but Roth, like most people, liked it. And this reflects badly on Roth??? how exactly?<p> I didn't watch Hostel for a LONG time because of the TP label... turns out that was a load of nonsense, and the film was actually pretty good. Porn has the barest of plots, to string together a series of gratuitous set pieces, with no underlying message or point. Hostel had far less violence in it than I expected, basically just the last third of the movie... and it made a number of acidic points about economic exploitation, desensitization, dehumanisation, globalisation, cultural arrogance, etc etc. I liked it when someone was playing Pulp Fiction dubbed in Romanian, and they said "How are we even supposed to watch this with no subtitles?". This was a good movie. You want torture porn, it's out there, and it's called "Saw 3". Anyone bracketing that and Hostel together either hasn't seen one of them, or is basically a bit retarded.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:07 p.m. CST

    The bottom line on Eli Roth:

    by DocPazuzu

    The man is an utter hack with no ambitions above making the sickest shit he can get away with on film. What's hilarious is that he even lies poorly when attempting to defend his slop, not that that deters his sycophantic followers from lapping it up. <p> Take this interview for instance. Read his comments on how labeling his film "torture porn" somehow mirrors a lack of depth in his critics, since they obviously can't see the profound meaning of Hostel. Then read about the deep and profound ways he got around the accusations of misogyny leveled at him and his film. <p> If your spider sense doesn't go off when reading that, then you really are Roth's intended audience. <p> I remember reading something Stephen King wrote about creating horror stories where he described three levels or qualities in their construction, with terror being the purest and most refined level of emotion that could be elicited in the reader. Failing that, one goes for the horror, which is a much more visceral reaction. When even that is out of reach, you just go for the gross-out. Eli Roth doesn't even ATTEMPT terror or horror -- he just goes for the gross-out, which is the lowest common denominator in the field. <p> Oh, and Capone, where, exactly, is it that torture porn "now has almost become a positive expression"?

  • June 3, 2007, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Torture Porn is an apt description

    by 900LBGorilla

    The term “Torture porn” is apt because the primary driving force that makes these films a draw-is getting off on the torture violence…let’s not bullshit ourselves- no one with an IQ over 30 looks to Hostel or Saw 25 as an intellectual exercise or commentary on the degradation of society- people watch them because they are horrific (versus sexual)- that’s the DRAW – and without that draw no one would bother- Eli himself effectively admits this in the above interview when he goes into how he needed the great money shot-er kill to make it popular (“If I can do that great kill that everyone's talking about, it will trump that weekend”.). And though there can be more “social commentary” (though it ain’t all that deep) in torture porn than in actual porn- at least actual porn is about getting off on sex rather than brutality. /// //// So is the term “torture porn” about people “not understanding the depth and social commentary of horror films” or some such nonsense”?….Nah….its about them understanding it all to well…you can make a porn movie with a slice of social commentary- but in the end its just a slightly deeper porn movie- the essence of the thing is what it is- so if you like it-that’s fine…but at least be honest with yourself and like it for what it is.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:21 p.m. CST

    I loved Cabin Fever

    by ulcer

    I thought Cabin Fever was truely interesting and original, especially in relation to zoombie movie. Essentially, the zoombies are actually the victims here. Hostel, I've finally watched it on pay tv and it was a much better film than I anticipated. It was really well done, I just think it goes too far showing everything. it's the showing of the torture that makes this torture porn, training material for psychos. It ends up being a really small part of the film, however. What saves the movie for me is that the hero survives and gets revenge. Movies where people get to fight demons and win can really help. Movies where we just watch people get tortured and killed are really just Torture Porn and sick, and they have no redeeming value, no matter how much setup you waste on the characters. Rob Zombie comes to mind for me as a film maker who loves horror but seem to only see the gore aspect of it.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:28 p.m. CST

    CorpseRide

    by tehgreekhammer

    Basically what I mean is, Roth is bringing to life one of the more recent works of the Legendary Stephen King (is it a perfect book? hell no). <p> Whats the first thing he does when he gets his hand on his "idols" work? Says hes going to change it. I find this incredibly ironic because of the history King has with hollywood changing his shit. Then Roth goes on to quote the biggest example of Hollywood messing with his baby. <p> Me personally I think the Shining (Kubricks) is one of the best movies ever made. BUT just because Kubrick made changes to Kings work, doesnt mean that the great Eli Roths changes are going to be for the better also.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Mr Sinister

    by tehgreekhammer

    with 2 great lines on the day...

  • June 3, 2007, 12:32 p.m. CST

    “Horror films reflect people's frustration with Bush"

    by 900LBGorilla

    <<<<“Horror films also reflect people's frustration with the current administration in troubled times. I don't think he liked that.” >>> Yeah whatever…like Eli wouldn’t be making this stuff if Hilary Clinton were president…or somehow the teenage and 20 something populace (who by and large can’t even name key members of the current government let alone care about that more than what they are doing next weekend) would magically not watch this as much had John Kerry been sitting in the Whitehouse. Maybe the interviewer didn’t like that comment because it’s just stupid. People watch this and are drawn to the extravagant violence because we need more and more to be shocked in subsequent movies (again Eli HIMSELF admitted he needed to trump the prior kills in HIS OWN prior movies- “”“Because I knew that this ending would have to be the show stopper of the entire HOSTEL oeuvre of kills, this has to be the one that's gotta fucking bring the house down.)””” Trying to later lay some deeper meaning to this is just absurd. We could have fun with this and just parallel the discussion with similar themes and insert “Michael Bay style action” for “Torture porn” and “Transformers” for “Hostel 2”.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:34 p.m. CST

    “Horror films reflect people's frustration with Bush"

    by 900LBGorilla

    <<<<“Horror films also reflect people's frustration with the current administration in troubled times. I don't think he liked that.”>>>>> Yeah whatever…like Eli wouldn’t be making this stuff if Hilary Clinton were president…or somehow the teenage and 20 something populace (who by and large can’t even name key members of the current government let alone care about that more than what they are doing next weekend) would magically not watch this as much had John Kerry been sitting in the Whitehouse. Maybe the interviewer didn’t like that comment because it’s just stupid. People watch this and are drawn to the extravagant violence because we need more and more to be shocked in subsequent movies (again Eli HIMSELF admitted he needed to trump the prior kills in HIS OWN prior movies- “”“Because I knew that this ending would have to be the show stopper of the entire HOSTEL oeuvre of kills, this has to be the one that's gotta fucking bring the house down.)””” Trying to later lay some deeper meaning to this is just absurd. We could have fun with this and just parallel the discussion with similar themes and insert “Michael Bay style action” for “Torture porn” and “Transformers” for “Hostel 2”.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Positive Expression

    by Lane

    as is clearly illustrated here in the TB, the term "torture porn" has become a "positive expression".

  • June 3, 2007, 12:46 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu...

    by DanielKurland

    Your post is pretty much my exact opinion on Roth and these type of movies.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Pot meet kettle, kettle this is pot...

    by queentylerdarden

    I've just sat here and read most of the Hostel talkbacks. I'm reading some really valid points about torture porn. BUT... I'm a big, ole screaming gay farmboy from Missouri. Let's see, I've just read a 5,000 word essay in talkback about Eli Roth's hatred toward women while referring to Eli Roth as a "faggot."...HUH? "Eli Roth is getting anally plugged." "Eli likes the sausage." " Eli sucks his own cock." I've just read these phrases in talkbacks railing against torture porn and how it dehuminizes us all...OKAY.. Look, I'm not some politically correct drama queen but, how can you make valid arguements about torture porn and be outraged toward Hostel while spewing your own homophobia? You can't use the arguement that, " I don't mean to be hateful to gay people, I use the word "faggot" like a school yard taunt." That's bullshit. That's the same as Eli putting up his torture fantasies in every multiplex and telling you that you don't "get it" because your offended. It's not the movies that dehuminize us. Ya'll have proved that. Oh, and for the record, I actually kinda dug the first Hostel. I'm more of a "Saw" fan and Eli Roth...I'd fuck him. He's hot.

  • June 3, 2007, 12:50 p.m. CST

    *Sigh*

    by TheHorror

    Aw shux, we just happened to double book Roth on the week his shitty film comes out, I really didn't know Harry would book him seeing as they're soulmates, ah well might as well interview him twice, can't do any harm right!? This film blows...but The End what about the end Eli cries! It's a cock getting sliced...Wow, social commentary at it's finest. And the whole "let's rally around this film and stick it to Hollywood" Well you know what Fuck you Eli - you get paid to make this shit, I don't get paid to watch it and I won't feel better for getting you a bigger house and a bigger bag of coke. I don't believe your actually talking about writing the script when I seen the flick I thought you made the whole thing up on the spot - it's a template of the first with different deaths. The acting is shit the art was shit and the D.O.P probably was a shit. I actually liked the first and Cabin Fever but this is the worst horror film in ages I really hope it flops with the shameless promotion your doing. And another thing the thanksgiving trailer was good but let down by your miserable promotion skills at the end of it "Written and Directed by Eli Roth" who gives a fuck, you and that Zombie with his shit trailer which was an advert for him as much as his wife. The only guy that really got into the spirir of it was Edgar - no shameless promotion bit tagged on at the end and the best trailer that left everyone talking about it. I hope you make a comeback with Cell, I really do, maybe talk to the writers and see how they make believable characters. Enough of theis Hostel 2 film already, i urge everyone to download it so they don't need to sit through it at the cinema and pay hard earned dollars to watch it. Fuck this film - I hope it tanks!!!

  • June 3, 2007, 1:07 p.m. CST

    lighten down fellas...

    by Wired Earp

    I know Eli didn´t invent the wheel and all but finding bigger hacks is not that hard. In a world of pg-13 shit horror movies i say go Eli. I sure dont mind.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:08 p.m. CST

    Robot Torture Porn

    by Dr Gregory House

    Too bad Roth didn't cast Transformers in this Hostel movie, then maybe all you good, decent, morally correct geeks would go see which beloved robot would 'transform' his way out of the Hostel. As usual, the people who are the most critical about taboo topics, are the ones who probably either have something to hide or are unwilling to take a look inside themselves for fear of what they may find.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Dear Mr. Roth

    by PwnedByStallone

    Please die. Thank you.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth

    by Blood Simple

    I don't hate Eli Roth, I don't hate his movies...I just think he's a douche and his movies aren't very good at all. End of story. I think it's sad that his biggest hit came from riding 'Saw's' success - a movie that was shockingly popular, and absolute dog shit. "Bringing back true horror" my ass. Gore does not automatically = good horror. I think his movies are lazy and trite. "Cultural commentary and subtext"? You sir, are a twat.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST

    well put, Dr Gregory House

    by The Dum Guy

    I really don't get the whole self-righteous contempt these "torture-porn" movies get, it's not like they are real. I find it amusing how people have to be, in some people's opinions, sick or depraved in order to enjoy watching these films, not because of what is happening i.e. people are killing people, but it is portrayed. I think that there is more to say about trying to make something as horrible as murder seem more realistic, as opposed to the Hoorah! actions antics that John Wayne was famous for. I just think alot people are being hypocrits on this issue or just don't get it.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Social Commentary My Arse

    by Votadini1983

    "I don't shy away from social commentary at all. It's very strong. It's one of the things, I think, people look for in my films." <p> Sorry? Oh and torture porn is not a possitive expression.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Torture Porn is not the problem

    by MontyPigeon

    The movie sucks and has no plot is the problem. Bring on the gore as much as possible but also give me a half decent story. That is where Hostel 2 fails, it is the first film all over again. Most people here have been watching sick Horror for decades, nothing shocks anymore. In a world where nothing shocks - the script/plot is important.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:38 p.m. CST

    All this analysis of Roth

    by kwisatzhaderach

    would be great if his movies weren't abysmal schock. Like he's ever gonna make a movie as good as The Shining. Dream on.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:46 p.m. CST

    bad arguement, queentylerdarden

    by bunkyboo

    yes, they can make their arguments and bash us at the same time. Why? because it's not just a black and white world. You can feel legitimately passionate about one issue and and cold toward another. In their eyes they are totally different things. Just like we can reject women as lovers and want to be like them at the same time. Let them say what they want, they are entitled to their opinion. And Eli Roth is a BSing impressario, no more than a low rent PT Barnum. In fact, if HH Holmes and PT Barnum had a freak love child, it would be Roth. What a slime. Hollywood, raise your standards because you're training the future creeps that will hurt or kill your children.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Torture Porn is so over... it's Goregasm now!!!

    by spud mcspud

    It's all shit. You can actually visualise a bunch of emotionally retarded gorefans wanking themselves hollow watching the HOSTEL movies, and that's what frightens me. A lot more than a bunch of freaky Czechoslovakians anyway. Eli, you are pandering to perverts and would-be serial killers - at least until Rob Zombie's next "masterpiece" comes out this year. And by "masterpiece" I mean "wankfest for emotionally retarded perverts and would-be serial killers... Blah blah fucking blah.<P> And yes, I do wonder if Eli does love the cock. Apparently you can't have enough of it in a movie, so...

  • June 3, 2007, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Seems to me

    by Grendel745

    A lot of the criticism of the "sub genre" of these movies (not Roth's in particular) are exactly the same as the criticism levelled at the early slasher films that are now regarded as classics. Now, I'm not in any way saying that Saw or Hostel or Hostel 2 are classics in line with TCM, Last House on the Left, Halloween or such films. However the criticism all sounds very familiar. Personally, I'm just happy to have R rated horror flicks. I'm so sick and tired of PG-13 "horror" with whatever CW star/starlet had a few weeks to kill during summer. Sitting through those monstrosities is the real torture.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:52 p.m. CST

    But the Shining sucks!!!

    by spud mcspud

    The Shining is not a great movie. I realise I might be in a minority here, but I just do not get why that movie is regarded as such a classic. It's fucking slow, very boring and when the killing finally starts? Funny as hell. Tell me you don't laugh when Jack Nicholson's leering through that door. "I'm not gonna hurt you honey, I'm just gonna bash your brains in. Just bash em right the fuck in!" Comedy genius. And you know why the SAW trilogy are better than the HOSTEL movies? Because there are some interesting twists. Characters to root for. Dina Meyer. And a villain whose ventually revealed story was actually well thought out. The best thing about HOSTEL was the concept - in execution (pun unintended) the movie was made just for Rob Zombie to wank over. Sick shit for sick minds. Let the flaming commence.<P> PS - I liked CABIN FEVER. It had actual, real ideas in it. Discuss.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Grendel, you're right

    by spud mcspud

    It would be nice to see some good R-rated horror again. I saw THE FOG remake recently, and it scared me for all the wrong reasons. How the fuck did that piece of unmitigated shit make it to the big screen intact? Seriously?

  • June 3, 2007, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Freemind, or anyone...I have a question...

    by Bones

    You say that you like the Tits and the Gore while watching Hostel. What were the feelings you had while watching them? Can you put them in words? Were there differences in your reactions? OR did you just get a big stiffy for both?<p> This is the question that haunts me about these more "realistic" Gore-fest horror movies. Are they producing the same reactions for both the violence and the sex? Because RAPE is not about sexual gratification, it is about the control and the induced fear that the rapist causes in the victim--and the serial killer mentality is usually sexual in nature--they can only "get off" by taking something from the victim (usually a progression of torture and finally death). My big concern with more graphic, "Torture-porn" films is that what starts out as an exploration of a taboo subject begins to celebrate and glorify it.<p> Silence of the Lambs is an immersive, creepy mindfuck of a movie--that limits it's gore to as little as possible. In fact the most disturbing thing in the whole movie is the Buffalo Bill dance sequence, even after all of the amazing violence that Lector commits. That is a film that will live forever as a great film, because of what it DOESN'T show.<p> I am honestly interested and concerned about people's reactions to these films--I am sure I have brought this up before, but I have a real problem watching Rape on film, having known three women in my life who were abducted, raped and murdered ...And most Slasher Movies are rape films, but with knives or garden utensils replacing the rapist's penis.<p> So, can someone tell me why they like these movies? What is the desired reaction that I am obviously missing?

  • June 3, 2007, 1:56 p.m. CST

    MontyPigeon

    by TheHorror

    I agree with you 100%. I don't give a fuck about the "Torture Porn" debate - I care about the film - and it's a fucking horrible film, it makes no sense, the characters are shit and the direction is worse, stop this whole "Social Commentary" crap. It was hinted upon in the first, subtle references which were cool. Then someone told Eli and he ran with it - fair enough. It's went too far now. "Some guy in Iraq loved it". What the fuck!!!So he blows people's heads off and he watches his friend gets their head blown off and all he wants to do is watch Hostel to get his frustrations out because he's scared and can't really talk about his feelings? Stop this shit, right now! Thje guy is probably mentally ill or something, most soldiers just wanna get laid, war isn't good - your film is hardly providing our troops with the release they need. Again, fuck this film, Eli seems to be coming up w/ excuses to go and see it. It's that bad. Stop riding this message all the way to the box office. I seen Roth on the UFC a while back before I seen the film saying "you won't believe the shit we got away with". I didn't take much notice then - but now I know the film he made has only one selling point & now he's trying to give it depth...Point for the future - you do that in the script not in the interviews after. I hate this film. I really do, it has no point at all, I hope it is pulled from theatres and given a DVD tagline of "so hardcore, it was pulled from theatres" because that's all it's good for! Fuck this film!

  • June 3, 2007, 1:56 p.m. CST

    I'll say it again..

    by CorpseRide

    ... torture porn is an apt description of something like Saw 3. To bracket Hostel with that load of crap shows a cultural cloth ear.<p> Funny that a number of people here posing over their digust probably really enjoying something like '300'. Now THAT was a movie for sickos.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:57 p.m. CST

    "The gore blinds them to any intelligence that..."

    by Negative Man

    <p>"...goes into making the film." Bwahahahahahaha!!! That is the most telling line in the whole interview. That is something only a Uwe Boll says. How about this for an idea you nearly talentless hack, how about putting that intelligence actually INTO the film!!! Sure, it takes some brains to make a flick, but it takes talent to make an intelligent film in any genre.</p><p>You know what Eli Roth sounds like in this interview? A university film school student. A STUDENT, not an actual filmmaker. You know the guys; they tend to be the overly talkative and arrogant types at parties that make entertainment references that straddle the lines of pop culture and obscure film. They have an opinion on ever little thing on God’s green Earth and actually believes that every word Al Gore says is true about global warming and then leave in an exhaust spewing VW Bus that they are ‘renovating’. You stand amazed and bored as they relate stories of the trip they took to New York and the brave stand they made for free speech by flipping off the FOX News building…and then, suddenly, two guys in dark suits came out…so he gave them the bird as well before running off. Meanwhile, somewhere in New York, two guys that work for an accounting firm located in the FOX building wonder why the kid with the bleached, spiked, frosted hair, soul patch and sheik, dark rimmed glasses hates them so much.</p><p>In the end, this interview came off as Roth saying “I’m an artist and the critics don’t understand the level of detail and intelligence in my films. I am smart, they are not.” Sure Eli, you’re a frickin’ genius. There are so many levels to your films. I can picture you with your crew, setting up a shot, putting a yellow ducky in the middle of the floor before turning to them and giving a diatribe about how this was both a reference to Italian Giallo horror and also represents the innocence lost by the main antagonist of the scene. Then putting a naked man in the shot “…just to fuck with critics.”</p><p>Yep…you’re brilliant. You find levels of commentary in C-grade horror movies from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s that no one has thought of. You’re the man. Love to hear what wondrous hidden gems of social commentary you found in Evils of the Night or Witchcraft 8: Salem's Ghost.

  • June 3, 2007, 1:59 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth and Bryan Singer

    by bunkyboo

    Would make a GREAT couple. Apparently you can't have enough of it in a movie, so... get your fill after shooting wraps for the day.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:03 p.m. CST

    torture porn mind f***ers

    by Mr Gorilla

    Like Eli thinks he's contributing to some sort of debate by putting these disgusting images into people's heads. Or like he thinks that people are appalled at his movie in the cinema but then watch it on DVD just for the social commentary. C'mon!! I thought the only people who dug on watching people being killed on film were those lunatic sword-wielding Islamic extremists. Looks like I'm wrong - and that Roth is creating a whole new generation of sickos.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Corpseride--

    by Bones

    The difference with 300 is it is not trying to be realistic. The stylization of the violence in that film, coupled with the "War" nature of the story made it acceptable. Is there a homosexual subtext to that film? Absolutely. It is about oiled up, near-naked men wrestling and killing each other. But is it rape? No.<p> So, which is more disturbing to you? Rape or Homosexuality?

  • June 3, 2007, 2:06 p.m. CST

    just saw a new trailer for hostel 2 minutes ago

    by Magic Rat

    with the voiceover guy saying "it's only a movie...it's only a movie...it's only a movie........it's not only a movie." And chicks screaming and scared and stuff. Looks like Roth & Co. are reading the TBs and saying FU to those of us not in the mood for this brand of horror.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:08 p.m. CST

    And another thing...

    by Mr Gorilla

    When some killer who tortures his victims is caught, and a copy of Hostel is found in his home - is Eli going to say that he was going to do it anyway? Oh, and by the way, the fact that people in the army are getting off on Hostel in Iraq... scares the bleeding shit out of me.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Excellent Talkback

    by Rebeck3

    Many good points made, most of which, I'm glad to say, see through all of Roth's pretentious bullshit and see him for the purveyor of crap he is. "Torture Porn" is absolutely the perfect description of this recent trend and it doesn't strike me as a "positive expression" that "piques my interest". Just the mere fact of those two words so close together makes me a little queasy is what it does. As someone said above, horror and gore are fine, enjoying the glorification of suffering is something altogether different. It seems these new filmmakers honestly do not know the difference. It's sad and it's fucking scary too - but not in the way they intended. And I have to say it seems to be a running theme here at AICN, from Harry on down, that the more sick and twisted and depraved a movie is the better it is. I love the original "Texas Chainsaw Massacre", but I have no use for Grade Z "grindhouse" movies that replace genuine talent and creativity withm, say, a killer that cuts out vaginas. There IS such a thing as a movie that celebrates pain and humiliation being just plain BAD in every way. I'm not for censorship, I just find this trend very disturbing. As someone else said (quoting King), they're not even trying for Terror or Horror anymore, just the basest shock value. But, in my opinion, it can be traced back to Tarantino's rise as he seems to revel in complete amorality and make jokes of torture. I felt critics laughing at and approving of that really heralded a new age. And then Rodriguez (whose talent I amdire) makes "Sin City", and besides teh viusal beauty and novelty, I find it to be completely disgusting and pointless. This is entertainment???? Anyway, that's my opinion. But I have to congratulate everyone for putting forth such intelligent arguments. For a long time it seemed like TBs had just degenerated into nothing but people calling each other names, shouting offensive racial remarks and basically just going for said shock value. Maybe it was just a matter of kicking those assholes out, but these days it feels like the REAL movie geeks have taken back AICN and passionate but respectful and thoughtful movie debate is the norm again. What a difference it makes.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Maybe Eli's next movie should be about ...

    by Kraken

    The Green Eyed Monster. I think a lot of you guys would relate to it.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth and Bangedup

    by bunkyboo

    I'll bet he got much of his motivation from real sex and gore websites like Rotten, Bangedup and Ogrish. Probably where his fanbase visits as well. Cretins.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Mr Gorilla

    by spud mcspud

    By saying that Eli is CRWATING a new generation of sickos - you may be right (God help us), but Eli Roth just gave himself a high-five and a hand-shank because he would think it was KEEEEWL that he did that. Until Rob Zombie hacks him up in his sleep and watches his wife writhe sensually in roth's entrails. Then use the footage for his trailer in GRINDHOUSE 2.<P> Anyone for The Care Bears Movie now??? ;p

  • June 3, 2007, 2:12 p.m. CST

    i can't believe...

    by billyhitchcock

    ...that he actually had the gauche to say "oh yeah, i bet someone is going to be so horrified they'll pull it from theatre's"! you fucking wish roth! then maybe you could squeeze another few bucks out of the chav's and hick's that actually pay to watch this shit! harry's he's not making this crap for film fan's or geeks or whatever he's just co-opted your voice to try to force his message on us.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:13 p.m. CST

    HEY ELI, your movies belong on both shelves

    by gride9000

    ELI,<p>Your movie allows people to "get off" on violence. Isn't that argument you made? <p>Everyone assumes the "Tourture Porn" is a "Top" thing. By that I mean it is assumed people's twisted sexual urges are satified by the idea they could touture someone ala "Hostal". I belive the soldiers in Iraq "get off" on your movie by identifing with the fear of being caught and toutured. This is the definition of a S&M "Bottom". <p>I have read that alot of S&M behavior is not focused on cumming or erections or even nudity. So if this is true, the military people in Iraq that fancy your film might not show the traditional signs of sexuality, but they are "getting off". "Getting off" really means many things, and if all that S&M stuff is sexual without orgasms or nudity, then you are making a film that could be in the horror or porn sections.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:14 p.m. CST

    TYPOS

    by spud mcspud

    Yes my previous post is full of mistakes. No, I don't care. I'm watching Big Brother 8 in the UK. Eli would love this shit.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:16 p.m. CST

    gride9000

    by spud mcspud

    Interesting. I really think that in the case of Eli Roth's movies, though, that "getting off" means "getting a sexual kick (with or without orgasm) out of watching people suffering and being tortured". Torture Porn is exacly what it says on the tin. What worries me is that anyone could get off on what, essentially, just makes most of us feel sick.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:17 p.m. CST

    hahahaha Eli was a camp counselor

    by gride9000

    How ironic. My roommate's old east coast buddy was at his camp, and nobody died mysteriously.....

  • June 3, 2007, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Futile

    by Mr Gorilla

    I realise the futility of daring to criticise a movie for being inappropriately violent on this site. We are after all mere days before the usual Harry love-letter: 'I dug the FRICKIN' hell out of Hostel 2 - and so did my 3-year-old nephew, who couldn't get enough of the scene where the upside-down women were stabbed with a ... etc etc'

  • June 3, 2007, 2:21 p.m. CST

    The Stephen King quote is a good commentary...

    by rbatty024

    on horror these days. It's not about being frightening, it's about making the audience jump or trying to gross out the audience (both get really boring really quick). So few horror films actually stay with me after I watch them because making you jump, fun in the moment, is a one time deal, and gore is quickly forgettable since looking back on it it's only a movie effect. This is especially true when the gore is used on a character with little emotional investment. I can't remember a horror movie that forced me to think about it late at night. Horror is in a sad state of affairs, it's a real shame.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:23 p.m. CST

    worry more about the real violence in IRAQ

    by gride9000

    Nobodys shotting smack to deal with the pain of blowing peoples faces off, that was vietnam. How do the cope this time round'. Abu Grave anyone? That shit looks alot like Hostal.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Fool me once: shame on you. Fool me twice: shame on me

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal>I was very disappointed by the first HOSTEL. I had loved the <span class=GramE>marketing,</span> I thought it was beautifully conducted. The imagery coming out to promote the film gave me the heebie-jeebies. Then, unluckily for Eli Roth, I went to see <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">WOLF</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">CREEK</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>, which opened that previous Christmas day. That film just punched me in the gut. The acting from the leading ladies devastated me. It's a film without gore, by the way. The empathy the actresses made me feel was what scared the hell out of me.</p> <p class=MsoNormal>So I went into Hostel thinking, this is going to be the SICK version of <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">WOLF</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">CREEK</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>. I wondered if I could even handle it. Problem is<span class=GramE>,</span> HOSTEL doesn't come close to being scary to me because of two reasons: the actors were terrible and not just in the torture chambers. Secondly, the tone of the film was akin to its special make-up effects: amateur hour. I thought the blow-torch eye gag everyone talks about was laughably bad. And forget about the ending: <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hollywood</st1:place></st1:City> at its worse. I walked out thinking Quentin and Eli had a good laugh on me, lying through their teeth about how brutal and realistic their little, unbearable shocker would be... nothing in it is any better than FRIDAY THE 13<sup>th</sup> PART IV. That movie had Tom <span class=SpellE>Savini</span> serving up the blood, and every single one of his gags is more realistic than what is in HOSTEL. But there were some great, creepy sets in HOSTEL, beautifully lit and photographed. I wish it had been in the hands of a better writer-director.</p> <p class=MsoNormal>That being said, the film was a giant leap forward from Cabin Fever. So I'm kind of hoping HOSTEL II will be that rare sequel that is better than the original. Although <span class=GramE>this whole talk</span> about the last kill in the movie going down as one of the best ever... well, sounds like <span class=SpellE>deja</span> vu. That's what they were saying about the first one, and nothing delivered. The word of mouth also seems to confirm this fear. Oh well, but I'm still looking forward to seeing it on DVD. I certainly will not being paying $10 to see the censored theatrical version. No way. </p>

  • June 3, 2007, 2:30 p.m. CST

    HOSTEL and HOSTEL 2 WERE GAAAHBAGE

    by CQuest

    roth, you are a faggy director. and no we arent "haters". you just suck. and your gay. ugh.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:30 p.m. CST

    I wonder what the Official AICN reaction is

    by tehgreekhammer

    to all this negativity concerning Eli the Golden Boy Roth's new flick. <p> I wonder if there will be bannings ala the Transformers bashing.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Roth

    by Mr Bonefish

    This guy is one smart son of a bitch. Anyone who has seen Hostel and been compelled to keep watching it realizes that there was more to it than hack and slash bullshit. His direction and character development was top-notch. Bring on number 3.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:35 p.m. CST

    AICN's rothapalooza

    by CQuest

    LOL there are now 4 propaganda positive pieces on Roth in preparation for the release of his shitty movie. Just blatant. All because Harry THINKS he had a piece in gettin the hostel movies started. No harry, thats just your big fat ego thinking. Of course roth would let u think that, while he laughs behind your fat hairy back. The human ego is a hilarious thing. But now you are plugging him any chance you get, on the site and in person. Congrats. Your site is officially corporate. How does it feel? Seriously? You know how against this shit u used to be. OR pretended to be because you were a fat nobody. Amazing what a little exposure will do for a fuckin nerd like you. you STILL cant get laid, and you STILL have no money. You just got a few "perks". If given the chance, u would be just as bad as the studio heads. Fuck you Harry, and fuck roth

  • June 3, 2007, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Where are you Harry?

    by Mr Gorilla

    Seriously, what do you think about all this 'torture porn' argument? I'd love you to come in and tell us what you think. Will history prove us 'torture porn'-haters wrong?

  • June 3, 2007, 2:38 p.m. CST

    tehgreekhammer

    by Mr Gorilla

    ...you beat me to it!

  • June 3, 2007, 2:39 p.m. CST

    Best quote in this TB - Worth repeating by Negative Man

    by TheHorror

    ***I can picture you with your crew, setting up a shot, putting a yellow ducky in the middle of the floor before turning to them and giving a diatribe about how this was both a reference to Italian Giallo horror and also represents the innocence lost by the main antagonist of the scene. Then putting a naked man in the shot “…just to fuck with critics.”*** Fuck this Film.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:41 p.m. CST

    I've never seen such consistant rejection in a talkback

    by bunkyboo

    You better believe that there are statistical monitors observing sites such as this. Keep it coming!!

  • June 3, 2007, 2:48 p.m. CST

    wow..

    by dengreg31

    I'm stunned that most of the talkback for this piece of utter garbage is negative.. well done AICN readers.. well done... That interview was ridiculous by the way... G

  • June 3, 2007, 2:53 p.m. CST

    So basically Roth is as arrogant a fuck as ever...

    by Triumph poops!

    ...AND once again AICN shows just how much they can be bought off by a studio to shill a product or how biased they are towards the amount of coverage they'll give something if they're friends with that person. Or if that person sucked their cocks enough, stroked their egos, or most likely of all -- coughed up some cash or goodies or whatever on their own as well to ensure coverage. As others have noted, the amount of coverage AICN is giving such utter crap as this film, certainly when compared to the sheer flood of other movies that are occupying the multiplexes this summer season, is telling indeed.<p>As for Roth, what an utter artistic douchebag and mentally challenged egotist. The very idea that Roth is trying to approach -- no, actually DEFEND -- tripe like the HOSTEL films and his hack level of writing and directing by using the old defensive fallback of "I'm making a social commentary here, people!" is so fucking laughable it actually hurts. Reading this interview literally...I'm not kidding you, LITERALLY...made me laugh out loud over how ridiculous Roth's pretentiousness was, right down to his whole defense of telling a DP or even his upcoming CELL Class A-level writers that he'll let them submit their ideas, but then it's going to be his way or no way. Which is basically like saying "Well, we could do it good, or do it shitty. I vote shitty! So nyah! I'm the brat in charge, so shitty it will be!"<p>CELL was a fun read and I can see it being an equally fun movie thrill ride. If there's any justice in the universe, HOSTEL will bomb or be SO critically reviled, the studio will find a way to temporarily backburner CELL over "creative differences", thus giving them a chance to fire Roth and actually bring in someone with TALENT.

  • June 3, 2007, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Well, we've heard a SEMI-official response here...

    by team america

    Did no one notice Kraken's post?<p>"Maybe Eli's next movie should be about ...<p> by Kraken Jun 3rd, 2007 02:09:47 PM<p> The Green Eyed Monster. I think a lot of you guys would relate to it."<p>Jesus, talk about missing the point entirely. Kraken, you didn't happen to accompany Quint on his set report, did you? Because otherwise I don't see why you would bother sticking up for a guy for whom the majority of this board shares such vehement hatred, especially when you don't have an actual argument regarding his worth as a filmmaker. Do you see this many people shitting over talkbacks concerning movies like "Hot Fuzz" or "Knocked Up"? No? I think that may be because some people have genuine TASTE. If you truly think it's envy that drives most of the posters here to speak out against Eli's horrible film, then you're only fooling yourself.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:05 p.m. CST

    queentylerdarden

    by CQuest

    as one of the big ones call roth the faggot he is, i have no problem with a movie that has some crazy elements to it. problem is, roth doesnt know what in the blue hell he is doing! his movies lack the basic fundamentals. you couple that with the fact that harry suck his dick like it will get him a million dollars and it makes most posters hate that shit even more.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Where has the horror gone???

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Seriously. Where is the horror, man? Where has it gone? I'm glad to see that so many of you in this TB actually "get it".<P>The fact that Eli Roth even mentions "The Shining" as one of his favorites while he has apparently made no effort to create something of equal effect...well, it speaks for itself.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:11 p.m. CST

    From David Edelstein

    by Davided

    My friend Aaron Aradillas sent me a link to this story and as the credited author of the term "torture porn," I wanted to convey to Eli Roth that, contrary to his assertions, I understand very well what he's up to--and am hardly opposed to graphic violence onscreen, having been a horror buff since the age of seven. Hostel and Turistas and the recent Severance (which I gave a guarded "thumbs up" to on Ebert & Roeper last week), do have a vein of social criticism/satire, insofar as they target Americans' (and their allies') ignorance and exploitation of Third World countries. It's no accident that these films about the rage against America--they include Babel and, for that matter, Borat--are in vogue at the moment given our current standing in the world. My torture porn piece wasn't so much an attack on this genre as an attempt to put the term out there and raise some questions about what it is we're supposed to take from admittedly very skillful movies like Hostel, Wolf Creek, The Devil's Rejects, and others. The victims in these films are NOT caricatured in the manner of the old Friday the 13th films. They're played by excellent actors and they're enormously sympathetic. It's pretty clear we're not supposed to identify with the sociopaths--but what do we get from watching people dissected alive at grueling length? It might be that there IS an artistic rationale; I just haven't been able to discern it from these films. (On the other hand, I think Quentin Tarantino does for the most part have a larger awareness of the meaning of violence, even as he revels in B-movie tropes.) It's possible that these filmmakers even have a moral perspective; they're saying violence SHOULD hurt. But more likely it's that--as my screenwriter friends tell me--studios know it takes more to shock jaded audience, so the stakes have been raised... As a critic, I'm fair game for attacks. I don't think that particular article said all I have to say on the subject--or was even entirely successful. But Eli Roth's comments suggest he didn't bother to engage with it on ANY level. Hence, this comment. Thanks.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Brilliant Talkback

    by Votadini1983

    Great to see people so overwhelmingly against this awful trend in cinema. Gore for gores sake is not fucking horror. <p> Having to rely on the graphic hyper-realistic torture of people for your shocks is not the sign of a great auteur.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Also, in response to queentylerdarden:

    by team america

    While I agree with the hatred for the film that's expressed by most of the talkbackers here, I also agree that it's really unfortunate that a lot of people feel the need to refer to Roth himself in such a crass manner. It's indicative of the same frat boy mentality that Roth himself exhibits, and I'm hoping more people can cool it with that kind of petty name calling. Or, failing that, maybe use a more relevant insult, such as pointing out that the guy is a total fucking huckster who shows no interest in making a decent film.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Question for Cobra--Kai et al.

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal>You express an opinion that is all over boards which deal with horror films. My question is this: do you and those who share your views truly think these films are inventive? What world do you all live in?<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal>Any person sitting in front of the TV for 8 hours a day (that's only the national average, BTW), will be exposed to the same kind of thing, and far, far worse, when the News comes on, especially if it's the local news, where they're only happy with their day if they have a rape or a murder to report on. It's especially good for their ratings if they can do a video walk-through of the bloody crime scene (&quot;brought to you by McDonald's&quot;).<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal>If people think the behavior found in HOSTEL is disgusting, I really wonder what they think about their neighborhoods. Have you looked up to see if any child molesters live in yours, for instance? Here's what REALLY scares me: the real world as seen through these eyes, for instance: www.mapsexoffenders.com. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal>Movies like HOSTEL are <span class=GramE>a<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>walk</span> in the park next real life, in my opinion.</p>

  • June 3, 2007, 3:17 p.m. CST

    man of stool i agree completely

    by CQuest

    its refreshing to see like 90% of the talkbackers saying how much we fuckin despise roth and AICN's obsession with him. I WISH this would reflect opening day, but it wont. this movie will open well. it will do well. Why? Because people need a bad guy. Roth is enjoying his role as the bad guy. He gets off on this shit. I think the very next step to this tho...after the outrage of how wack he is...is to just feel sorry for him....and IGNORE him. Gonna be hilarious when we get to that point.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Subovon...

    by team america

    I think everyone is well aware that real life is very fucked up. There's nothing inherently wrong with violence in films to any degree, so long as there's an actual point to it. And that's just it: no matter how much Eli would love to convince us otherwise, he doesn't actually have anything to say with these films. They're ugly and hollow, through and through.<p>Of course, if you see any amount of subtext and meaning in these films, then I'd love to hear it.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:23 p.m. CST

    team america...

    by billyhitchcock

    ...exactly my man. hot fuzz and knocked up have had a lot of coverage, i know, my review of hot fuzz was a part of it :-), but apart from the negative TB's about that fact the reaction by the TBer's has been mostly positive. i love that there is a common feeling in this TB. it proves that harry can't just force bullshit on us just cos he's got a vested interest. i love this site and i love harry. about 8 years ago i found this site and it has expanded my passion for film's beyond belief, and most of the time i've felt bad about 'haters'' reactions to a lot of the reviews. like they were just doing it for the sake of it, what kraken calls the green eyed monster. but i can catagorically say this TB is a group of like minded people expressing one valid thought about a particular director and genre. and because it is us feeling this and not the right wing media makes it all the more valid. cos we will put up with some tripe, even enjoy it most of the time! but this certainly is a step to far and we are the people that matter on this site, and we have called them out BIG time.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:23 p.m. CST

    the message to these films is...

    by CQuest

    "shit happens". You are better off if you arent around when shit happens, cuz if you are, the shits gonna hit the fan. and oh, if you like to bully girls, then you will die a horrible death. and yea, the rest of the world hates us. and yea, money rules all. and lastly, bulldog tattoos are the rage.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Roth: "You watch porn, you get off, that's it"

    by Triumph poops!

    In the interview Roth noted that when you watch porn, you simply get off and that's it compared, of course, to the intellectual insight you're left with long after sitting through one of his highly enlightned and academic films.<p>But I disagree, Eli. Why, the social commentary that porn makes about gender stratification and the empowerment that is given to overtly open women over others is indeed a telling diatrabe on morality as well as historical societal constructs.<p>Gee, funny that! We ALL can play this "social commentary" game to defend what is nothing more than crass, talentless moviemaking to make a quick sell-out buck.<p>On a lighter note, one of the best lines I ever heard about porn came from the late Richard Jeni in a stand-up routine he did, where he was talking about the time he actually hosted the AVN porn awards in Vegas. Jeni noted, "Have you ever noticed that when a porn movie is over that no one ever says "Gee, that's funny. I didn't think the story was going to end THAT way."

  • June 3, 2007, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Why AICN is doing Roth-fest

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal>Sites like these publish *whatever* they can get, that's all. Roth is smart enough to make <span class=GramE>himself</span> available to them, so they post his stuff. I don't think it's all that much because they like the guy (although they obviously do). He's just giving them great headlines. </p> <p class=MsoNormal>Stallone did it very, very well with ROCKY, and look: his buddy Bruce Willis is following suit to promote his PG-rated &quot;Live Censored of Die Hard.&quot; The only way to curb this as a reader, is not to talk back or even log on (they can measure the clicks, folks). But personally, I'm having a grand '<span class=SpellE>ol</span> time on here!</p>

  • June 3, 2007, 3:27 p.m. CST

    billyhitchcock, exactly.

    by CQuest

    alot of us here, we can put up with extremely dark humor that most of america would immediately hate. most of us here at some point have probably seen a woman having sex with a horse in one of those random weird emails that goes around. I mean basically, we have seen it all. There isnt much that can offend or sicken us. So it IS very interesting that alot of us feel the same way about Roth and his movies, and the way that AICN treats him. My bet tho is that AICN will do what it does best, and thats just ignore this. Sweep it under the rug. It would be so easy for them just to delete this talkback, and i wouldnt be suprised if they did it.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:27 p.m. CST

    i don't think this movie will do well

    by Magic Rat

    I think it will generate buzz, but negative buzz. Critics will hate it and people will wait for it on DVD. Just my opinion.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:29 p.m. CST

    team america,

    by Subovon

    I completely agree with you. I don't see any subtext in HOSTEL (haven't seen part II), because there is none. Eli is either delusional about his work, or lying like a used-car salesman. I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in the middle. His films have thus far been nothing more than Hollywood hamburgers, spun off an assembly line.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Indeed so Man of Stool....

    by DarthTarter

    "beating-girls-to-death-while masturbating-bullshit" This made my laugh my ass off. Thanks for the response, and I DO agree. Very few of the horror movies I love and actually find scary are gore-based. The scene in Freaks where the little guy with no arms and legs crawling in the mud with a knife in his mouth scares me more than any scene in Hostel. I just want the choice to watch or not to watch to be mine.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:32 p.m. CST

    legitimately interesting and intellectual talkback

    by paragraphs

    i actually sat down and read the whole thread which i never do. well done AICN'ers. interesting debate. personally i'm a little scared by the popularity of torture porn films.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:35 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Votadini1983

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 3:36 p.m. CST

    If this film does well...

    by TheHorror

    We're all screwed, it just goes to show as long as you have contacts in the business you can make anything and it'll do well - it actually makes me sick. this is a VERY BAD movie not just bad - it's actually so bad it shouldn't get a general release, it's one of those straight to DVD sequals likeWalking Tall 2 (dunno what it's real name was) or Bring it on again - should be in a bargain bin by August & should be out of production by December - then in 20 years time a scrawny kid will go "Aw I seen this sick film the other night Hostel 2!" and then it ets a re-release etc. I don't see why Cannibal Holocust etc get banned but this is on a general release in theatres under a R Rating!!!!The MPAA is seriously corrupted, it all went downhill when Zombie got his film through(which isn't that bad) and now uit's just one big joke- we should write to them and get the film pulled. I hate this film...fuck this film!!

  • June 3, 2007, 3:37 p.m. CST

    parador de la cogida

    by Magic Rat

    parador de la cogida

  • June 3, 2007, 3:37 p.m. CST

    I really really wish...

    by billyhitchcock

    ...that it gets panned and bombs, but the reality is that enough critics will subscribe to the Roth social commentary bullshit to persuade enough pseudo-intellectual films fans to bolster the massive stupid chav/hick audience and it will hit $100m probably within 2 weeks. i'd love harry to respond to this properly but i'm sure it'll be one sentence in his orgasmic review, full of first blow job/jizzing on the guy in front references :-)

  • June 3, 2007, 3:38 p.m. CST

    общежитие fuck

    by Magic Rat

    общежитие fuck

  • June 3, 2007, 3:38 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by TheHorror

    Part II

  • June 3, 2007, 3:38 p.m. CST

    hostel da foda

    by Magic Rat

    hostel da foda

  • June 3, 2007, 3:39 p.m. CST

    ostello di scopata

    by Magic Rat

    ostello di scopata

  • June 3, 2007, 3:40 p.m. CST

    fuck ξενώνας

    by Magic Rat

    fuck ξενώνας

  • June 3, 2007, 3:40 p.m. CST

    BumsenHerberge

    by Magic Rat

    BumsenHerberge

  • June 3, 2007, 3:40 p.m. CST

    If the big "kill" shot is....

    by DarthTarter

    I guess I should put a *spoiler* here not that anyone cares on this talkback. ....a cut off of penis, then you are right monster2Bpitied, Beyond Re-Animator beat them by years. BUT don't forget Bloodsucking Freaks beat them by over 30!

  • June 3, 2007, 3:40 p.m. CST

    pension de baise

    by Magic Rat

    pension de baise

  • June 3, 2007, 3:41 p.m. CST

    fuck herberg

    by Magic Rat

    fuck herberg

  • June 3, 2007, 3:42 p.m. CST

    性交のホステル

    by Magic Rat

    性交のホステル (fuck hostel)

  • June 3, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by TheHorror

    Part II...again! I hate this film...it's a re-hash of the first, surely Eli gave the script to someone to proof read and they either said "it's fine" for fear of being fired or said "this is shit" and then got fired. I repeat...no believable characters, a rushed plot of the 1st film, a boring experience altogether and the shittest "Aw dude sick as fuck" ending ever, that makes no sense. I hate this film...FUCK THIS FILM!

  • June 3, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    You guys are fucking nuts

    by Chopper Sullivan

    If you don't like Eli Roth, that's fine. He does give off an obnoxious frat boy vibe and seems like kind of a jackass. But, I thought Cabin Fever was a hell of a lot of fun, and I thought Hostel was ok. It was pretty creepy, had a few gross out moments, a few laughs, some naked broads, and that's it. It didn't turn me into a serial killer and not once did I find myself masturbating to it. It was just an ok horror film, but the level of bullshit outrage over it is pretty ridiculous.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Oh why not....FUCK HOSTEL

    by DarthTarter

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 3:45 p.m. CST

    oh yeah...

    by billyhitchcock

    ... and i and the rest of the cinema i watched it with laughed OUT LOUD at the eye scene in hostel. easily the worst gore effect i've ever seen in a mainstream film. the only other time i've been watching a film when the audience laughed AT the film was matrix revolutions when trinity dies :-)

  • June 3, 2007, 3:45 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by CQuest

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 3:46 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Geoff_Grundy

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 3:47 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Votadini1983

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 3:49 p.m. CST

    just an observation

    by JFilm101

    It seems like the more people in these TBs that trash Eli Roth's films and point out the inherent sickness and lack of talent in them the more Roth related bullet points pop up on AICN's main site. I know he's a friend of your's Harry but please spare me the inculcation (the AICN staff all think his films are GREAT and you should too)! DocPazuzu, very good reference to bring up King's thoughts on levels of horror and where Roth fits into this spectrum. *For David Edelstein: I catch your reviews on "Fresh Air" when I can and usually agree with your analysis. Question: If this film is merely an example of attempting to shock an ever-increasingly jaded audience then what can we expect from this sub-genre of horror 10 - 15 years down the line? I mean, full frontal castration is pretty hard to top, yes? Is it even a good sign that this trend is perpetuated to begin with?

  • June 3, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    tHIS MOVIE IS GOING TO Tank

    by tehgreekhammer

    @ the box office. Dont worry.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:52 p.m. CST

    oh yeah again...

    by billyhitchcock

    ...i loved cabin fever. chopper sullivan - this is one talkback, hardly a ridiculous level of outrage. this is genuine film fans who've had enough crap foistered on them, deal with it. FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 3:52 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by TheHorror

    Just looked for tyhe MPAA e mail, can't find it - if you can plz post it up, i quickly brisked through films that got an NC-17 and just a few that I woild care to post are "The Matador" (Pierce Brosnan), Young Adam (Ewan McGregor) and Orgazmo (Trey Parker). So all these have more offensive stuff in it than Hostel Part II???Hmmmm. I think not! The bad film-making should be enough tio give this an NC-17.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:53 p.m. CST

    JFilm101

    by TheBigDogg

    I'd guess what we can expect of this sub-genre in 10-15 years is that it will be about 9-14 years extinct.

  • June 3, 2007, 3:55 p.m. CST

    David Edelstein...

    by Bones

    David, what do you like about the horror genre in general--and what do you think is missing in these hollow "torture-porn" films?<p> It is interesting to me that Slasher films evolved from crime dramas, wherein someone punishes the guilty murderer by film's end to the apex of horror, the fantasy Slasher film of the 1980's where Freddie, Jason or whoever is an extreme metaphysical being who is the one punishing the "guilty", usually subconsciously enforcing the morality of the culture (killing promiscuity, vice, what-have-you).<p> So, what do these new films represent? Apathy?

  • June 3, 2007, 3:57 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Geoff_Grundy

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Not that I don't sympathize...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...with the "FUCK HOSTEL" campaign, but it's a surefire way to get this whole TB deleted.

  • June 3, 2007, 4 p.m. CST

    Chopper Sullivan...

    by Bones

    What did you like about Hostel? Do you know WHY you liked it? As a story, what were it's good points and bad points? How was the directing? The acting? What point was it trying to make?<p> If you can answer these questions, I'll take you seriously. I am truly interested in why this type of film is popular...

  • June 3, 2007, 4:01 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by CQuest

    we should actually go to the other Roth articles and do the same shit

  • June 3, 2007, 4:01 p.m. CST

    apathy?

    by Magic Rat

    nah, probably boredom, if anything. The guys doing the torturing were bored with their regular 9-5 lives. The kids tortured were bored with their lives and seeking adventure in europe. The people who go see this and enjoy it are bored with regular gore in movies. Boredom is what created this film and drove it and what apparently will be this franchise. Until the public itself gets bored with it and starts demanding on-screen late-term abortions or "best of" Abu Gharab video.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:02 p.m. CST

    FUCK TORTURE PORN

    by Bawscratcher

    Oh yeah and fuck Hostel too.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu, why not delete the individual posts?

    by Bones

    Why not delete those "Fuck Hostel" posts rather than the whole talkback, that is interesting, informative and more interesting than the interview that spawned it?<p> I mean, isn't this site supposed to be about film passion, even if it runs contrary to the views of Harry himself? I am not trying to start any problems--I just want to know if people bother to think about WHY they like these films...

  • June 3, 2007, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Good point, Magic Rat...

    by Bones

    Very good point, indeed.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Bones

    by DocPazuzu

    Oh, I agree, but I've seen entire TBs vanish because of little things like that. I'm just urging a bit of caution in order to preserve this talkback.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Harry, don't delete this whole talkback...

    by Bones

    ...just because of some overzealous posters. This has become an interesting talkback. Thanks

  • June 3, 2007, 4:08 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Bawscratcher

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 4:10 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by PwnedByStallone

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 3, 2007, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Man of Stool...

    by Bones

    you are not halping.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:12 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Bawscratcher

    This is a great site and everything, but they are gonna have to stop shilling for snuff movies.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:13 p.m. CST

    ..I meant helping...

    by Bones

    Ooops.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Um, Cocktimus Prime...we get the point...

    by Bones

    How about joining in a serious discussion, rather than sounding like a demented four year old?

  • June 3, 2007, 4:16 p.m. CST

    you know, Harry, if you can...

    by Magic Rat

    you should get Eli Roth to come here and answer questions. I think it'd be good for both him and us to have a discussion about the nature of these types of films and may we'd understand eachother's side a bit better. He can hear our concerns and we can read his rationales. He's probably never do it, but you could at least ask.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:18 p.m. CST

    if harry deleted this TB...

    by billyhitchcock

    ...it would totally contravene freedom of speech which is exactly what roth is invoking with his torture porn bullshit

  • June 3, 2007, 4:19 p.m. CST

    The Big Dogg

    by JFilm101

    one can only hope ...

  • June 3, 2007, 4:19 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by spud mcspud

    And fuck Eli Roth too. Down with talentless film-"makers" who cover their lack of talent with the old "you don't get it, it's my art" shtick. Bullshit!

  • June 3, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Magic Rat...

    by spud mcspud

    ... if they DID get Eli on here, he'd only accuse us all of not understanding the vision of wheee he was coming from, blah blah blah, and how it all means something far more subtextual than just making torture porn movies for sickos to jack off to. You know he would. You can't talk to someone like him on the level of this talkback: if he isn't making you retch he isn't happy. He's got the maturity of a ten-year old kid with a bucket of fake puke. End of.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by PoweredUpPacman

    just in time for the bandwagon...

  • June 3, 2007, 4:23 p.m. CST

    FUCK TORTURE PORN

    by Bawscratcher

    Agreed billyhitchcock. You can't have it both ways.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:23 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL PART TWO

    by spud mcspud

    And any further instalments of this dreck that Mr Roth may threaten us with!

  • June 3, 2007, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Huck Fostel and Ruck Foth too !

    by Pound Sand

    These movies make the world a worse place to be. They make people stopping thinking. They are uncreative and soul-deadening. And that's the opposite of what art and film ought to be.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    FUCK ROTH

    by PoweredUpPacman

    He killed Van Halen. The Bastard.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Fuck Tortureporn

    by PoweredUpPacman

    In didn't even read anything on this talkback.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:25 p.m. CST

    EF TORTURE PORN MOVIES

    by Pound Sand

    ef the whole genre.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:25 p.m. CST

    FUCK TORTUREPORN

    by PoweredUpPacman

    LOOKS BETTER IN CAPS!!

  • June 3, 2007, 4:26 p.m. CST

    FUCK ME

    by PoweredUpPacman

    ...this late already. I'm off to bed...

  • June 3, 2007, 4:26 p.m. CST

    EFF TORTURE PORN SEQUELS

    by Pound Sand

    Don't ban me, I"m keeping my subject lines clean.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:27 p.m. CST

    EFF "KILL SHOT," ENDINGS

    by Pound Sand

  • June 3, 2007, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Counting sheep

    by Subovon

    Too bad so many people followed the stooly's suggestion. This was a great talk-back. I don't think they'll delete it though. Likely, they'll just ban those who behaved like sheep. It wouldn't be such a bad thing, in my opinion.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:32 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by lecter1914

    I dont normally hate on directors or their "art" but ever since thsi site told me Cabin Fever was going to be awesome and I paid money to go see it (even took friends who had never heard of it) I haven't been the same towards Roth. Cabin fever was so hyped up, had an interesting premise...and it was infuriatingly bad. After skipping Hostel in theatres I decided to rent it. That hack got my money again. I was left speechless and infuriated once again. He nor this site will fool me again. Im not even into the whole torture porn debate, doesnt really phase me. I JUST HATE BAD MOVIES and all of his films have been just that...bad.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Anyone??

    by dane27

    does anyone here like hostel? I'm lookin' forward to the next one, and enjoyed first. Guess what? I'm not a sick twisted person. I think to call people who might enjoy this movie sick unstable people is a fairly unfair generalization. You don't like it? fair enough, but to label a vast majority of people is more disturbing and fucked up then anything in a movie. It usually stands true that what you don't like about something is a refelction of what you don't like about yourself.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Quint to the rescue?

    by Subovon

    You joked that Capone se the bar high for your sit-down with Roth, tomorrow morning. I think there's plenty of evidence that in the people's opinion, he did not. However, they've raised it for him, and you. You've got a lot to ask the man, now. You won't be hurting for questions! Can't wait...

  • June 3, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Why people like Hostel

    by TheHorror

    Ok, I WAS a fan of the first film, i'll admit it. Here's why...I'm a horror fan and I appreciatwe that people hate "Torture Porn", I myself am not a big fan of these Asian horror films by Takashi Mikai or whatever the fuck his name is, apparently he makes like 6 films a year and I can see why, all of his films are shit and have little or no point, they're gory and delve into the dark corners of the human soul w/o actually giving anyone any kind of motive - so sexually frustrated emo types can talk non-stop about it w/o really understanding it but that's what youth is all about I guess...anyway! Back to Hostel. I first heard of Hostekl on the back of all the QT Presents stuff and quickly watched Cabin Fever. I thought Cabin Fever was a fun and very flawed film, i thought it was made by a drug induced 21 year old, when I found out it was made by a retarded 30 year old who thought he was 15 I was a bit dissapointed, anyway I digress (again). So I went to the cinema to watch Hostel. Things I liked...(i)the general idea! It's an awesome concept for a horror film, you've got elements of peril and you actually can imagine that this type of place can exist (ii) The undertones, the whole going for prostitutes and then becoming one, americans (and westerners in general) sayin how we supposed to watch this when it's not in English, feeling like a total outsider when people are talking in a different language. Kind of like American Warewolf in London - the guy just doesn't fit. It's all very relevent today where our government is isolating us from the world - I also loved the bit in the locker room w. Rick Hoffman - saved the film in terms of acting imo...Things i didn't like. The desperate attempt to get a bit of character development w. Jay Hernandez saying "I seen a girl drown", the bubblegum kids, the running over the bad guys, the girl jumping in front of the train etc All the loose ends seemed to just tie themselves up. HOWEVER I left thinking that was a pretty sick horror flick which had some genuine moments of horror in it, not many but some. In part 2 he lost everything, the story is god awful and I fear that what i watched in part 1 was just Eli making torture porn, a rediculous concept to show people in peril like those Korean/Japanese films and get 15year old boys rocks off. Everything I associated w/ the film wasn't followed up in the 2nd, it was even shitter acting with a shitter script, no care was taken is my point, Eli will try and have you believe that it took him ages to come up with it but when you watch it clearly didn't he's a fucking joke - he loves all that asian tripe and wanted to make a "sick as fuck" film for the mainstream, it's retarded - it's not fun and isn't enjoyable because the package as a whole is awful, so kudos to me for making something out of nothing...i guess! Fuck this film!

  • June 3, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    I haven't posted on AICN TB for a very long time...

    by CurryIce

    (it must have been almost 1 1/2 years or so...) but i just had to write this: Big THANK YOU to all the posters on this talkback and i'm surprised to see this kind of reaction on AICN AND THANK GOD! First it's not the usual brainless bashing or supporting geekasm reactions, i read here (though there are a few...as always) and second i have to agree with most of the posts: It's really very unconvincing and not very believable (or it was just PLAIN BAD FILM MAKING) that there was actually a subtext or a deep social commentary in Hostel. (It's the same bullshit like the director of the French movie Irreversible tries to get away with the rape scene) Hostel was nothing else than a bad hollow and shallow torture flick and it's just frustrating, that this kind of film got popular and commercially successful. Now we have two Hostel movies. Enough with this and deliver us THE GOOD Horror films, PLEASE!

  • June 3, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by lecter1914

    and as far as those who like his films. I don't believe there is anything wrong with them. One of my friends who saw Cabin Fever with me and watched Hostel on dvd thought they were "pretty cool" and he's not a psycho. Well...then again he's looking forward to the Cavemen sitcom...maybe i should have him watched or go check his attic.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:43 p.m. CST

    And...

    by TheHorror

    for him to use the iraq war as a selling vehicle is fucking sick, he should get a fucking grip - Hostel II is a waste of time. Fuck this film, i can't wait for the interview tomorrow to see what he says AND opening weekend - i really hope it tanks - take some care over your work next time don't rely on a sawed off cock to get people talking and the whole stick it to Hollywood attitude - fuck you Eli, I ain't paying for your new condo - all the other film-makers that make this kind of drivel are skint and quite rightly so if you make a fetish film - in no way is this mainstream, stop promoting it as such, promote it as one of the most over stretched horror films ever...90mins just to see a cock is shite. Fuck this film and fuck you too.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:44 p.m. CST

    cabin fever wasn't horrible

    by Magic Rat

    I enjoyed it, but then again, that movie featured characters that you were supposed to care about, set up a story and a pace and used it's gore within the story to push the story along. Hostel was Dude Where's My Car before it turned into Texas Chainsaw Massacre dinnertable scene for no apparent reason. The film was terribly disjointed and needlessly gory. As a film it would have been much better served to do cut-aways right before the actual torture started. Or just pan to the outside of the door and hear the screaming would have been a lot more terrifying. Leave it up to the viewer's imagination to picture what's happening to the characters. If you spent the whole first half of the movie showing them in an effort to get us to relate to them, have us feel their pain psychologically. Don't just show us props of toes and eyes and things getting snipped off. Hostel could have been a really good horror film if Roth dialed it down a little and gave the viewer credit for actually having a functioning brain.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Yo, dane27

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal><a name="OLE_LINK17"></a><a name="OLE_LINK16"><span style='mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK17'>I think you make a valid point about generalizing the audience of horror films. </span></a>People who jump out of planes with a little tarp in a backpack are often labeled totally insane. It's the extreme nature of the subject that blinds people to understanding the appeal. As a horror fan (and a roller coaster freak who'd like to parachute, one day), I love a good rush, and I like to be scared a lot! I'd rather not get mugged, however, so Horror films are the safe alternative. I think of them as roller coasters, but I'm always hoping one will transcend the genre and be something great, like PSYCHO, THE SHINING, SILENCE OF THE LAMBS or SEVEN.... And notice how the best of the genre are hybrids. You can totally argue THE EXORCIST is a drama. It's the acting that scars me to death in that flick. But you can't tell that to a bible-thumper who thinks the devil lives in the celluloid. </p> <p class=MsoNormal>I think the Hostel movies compound this problem because they're like a bad Disney movie: pre-fabricated and devoid of artistic integrity, and the least experienced audiences are capable of perceiving this, even if they are not conscious of it.</p>

  • June 3, 2007, 4:45 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by lecter1914

    YOu know, i dont post on this site often myself, but like curry ice, im just so proud to see such solidarity amongst us talkbackers against the hyperbole and propaganda that AICN is forcung upon us when we have repeatedly said we dont really care about Hostel. I can accept taste taht simply doesnt agree with mine like when Harry single handedly tricked me into seeing Jurassic Park 3 and Van Helsing since he was so enthusiastic. I can even deal with being hyped up to be let down by 28 Weeks later. I can even understand the weird theing all the AICN staff had for Death Proof...despite being a snorefest, I guess it had artitistic merit and a pretty cool payoff in the end. But this Eli Roth bullshit, especially Hostel is simply inexcusable. I wish that someone on this staff who keeps forcing this guys "work" on us would just come on out and say what exactly he slipped into ttheir drinks to make them so giddy over him.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Thanks, TheHorror...

    by Bones

    See, I can appreciate someone saying they like the danger, the reversals, the unpredictability of being a stranger in a strange land--those are legitimate things to ponder. Now, why can't you have all those things, without the voyeuristic "snuff film" inserts? Would people cry "Foul" without their moneyshots? Couldn't some judicious editing make the films more disturbing by NOT showing some violence?<p> Remember when 8mm came out? I made a choice NOT to support a story about a "real" snuff film--and I choose NOT to support Hostel. But, I am not asking people who like the films not to see it--I am just questioning why they do. So, thanks for answering, TheHorror. Anyone else want to pony up why they like graphic horror films?

  • June 3, 2007, 4:52 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Dizagaox

    I think these movies are just generic shit. I can't believe AICN can be so two-faced.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:53 p.m. CST

    What about Quentin? Anyone mad at him?

    by Subovon

    Ultimately, my biggest disappointment (and biggest complaint) is with Tarantino. He put his name on these movies. That's what let me to believe – nay, hope – that the first might be something worth catching. I haven't read a lot of people express this idea. Is it because I'm one of the few who got jibbed, and feels this way? Because I admit, I'm enough of a sheep that when I see "Steven Spielberg presents," that I pay a little attention. Can't wait for Transformers, by the way. I'm one of the lucky few who are going in without any history with the subject, and I hope it's the spectacular, and fun pop-corn flick I want it to be!

  • June 3, 2007, 4:54 p.m. CST

    ***Ego Roth***

    by CopOnTheEdge

    There, now I coined a term like David Edelstein. And I want to tell all of you who are too stupid to see the subtext in my phrase that it's *okay* if you only enjoy it for the entertainment factor, not the social criticism. I *understand* how you feel, you being too dumb to see metaphors and all, and I want you to know it's okay.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth the most shameless man ive met

    by lloydfromentourage

    A few years bsck I was a total nobody, an assistant in Hollywood. Through that I got tickets to an award show. At my table, this guy named Eli Roth comes up and kisses ass of the c list celebs sitting with us, and then smarmily wants to know who I am and how he can get to know me. I think I even still have his card. I don't think Cabin Fever had come out yet, but all I knew was that I'd just met one of the most shameless self promoters in Hollywood. I mean think about it, the so called power of the horror film and its cathartic value was only realized by Roth after he heard about that, and then he went "yes, I have an effect on America's soldiers and make it ok for them to be sensitive, so I'm going to talk that shit up in interviews." There's nothing going on here, just someone desperate for attention who works to get it. The reason it's called torture porn is because there is no subtext or intelligence or point behind it other than some kind of boring half hearted morality play that's beside the point. Let's close this case. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51YrX-DDLxA Watch Eli's eyes light up as he shows off ten seconds of death and nudity.

  • June 3, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST

    RE:Bones

    by TheHorror

    I guess peole like the graphic stuff because they don't see it - I was obsessed with The Thing years ago - the scene w/ the paraplegic...I remember thinking How the fuck did they do that!? Gory horror seems to be popular w/ film students also as it's quite easy to do and a cheap thrill, However one of my fave films is The Hitcher where the gore isn't promenant - a real classy film imo. Anyway I would like to re-itterate I absolutely hate Hostel Part II so much so i'm starting to despise the first - I think I gave Eli too much credit - I actually thought he knew what he was doing, it's clear noe he doesn't. P.S the ORIGINAL Hitcher - I ain't touching that remake w/ a barge pole! Fuck that film and fuck this film too!

  • June 3, 2007, 5 p.m. CST

    FUCK Y'ALL, ALLA Y'ALL... JUST KIDDING!!!

    by spud mcspud

    I'm glad to read a talkback of such maturity and intelligence. And I include Man Of Stool in that. Stool: you rool!<P> Yeah, I say I won't spend any more money on Roth's dreck. But then I did enjoy the SAW movies. But then again, they felt like movies that were aware of their own cheesiness, and in the end walked that fine line between cheese and horror very well (see also SCREAM). But Roth? I think he actually believes his own bullshit with all this blah blah subtextual hidden message blah exploitation it's really like a giallo flick blah Jordan Ladd looks sexier covered in blood than not blah I am sick. Get over yourself. CELL is your last chanch: don't fuck it up!

  • June 3, 2007, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Yo, Bones, here's my 2 cents:

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal>I'll be thankful to any storyteller who can scare the hell out of me. It really doesn't have anything to do with gore. TEXAS CHAINSAW ('74) and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">WOLF</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">CREEK</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>, have almost no blood at all in them, but they are graphic, and they churned my stomach. I loved them in sort of the same way I loved the roller coaster &quot;Texas Cyclone&quot; for lodging my stomach behind my eyes at Astroworld (RIP, baby).</p> <p class=MsoNormal>On the other hand, one of my favorite movie is RE-ANIMATOR. It's also one of the goriest I've ever seen, even if it didn't scare me at all. The special make-up effects are worth the trip unto themselves. I think it shows how complicated the issue is. But one thing is for sure, a film can be graphic without being gory, and a gore fest can be great without being scary. Also, a graphic, violent film about the worst that humans are capable of doing to each other, can be completely respectful of the audience. And that's what I'm looking for when I go to horror shows.</p>

  • June 3, 2007, 5:06 p.m. CST

    I just got off the bone of Eli Roth

    by BannedOnTheRun

    Tastes like torture porn!

  • June 3, 2007, 5:08 p.m. CST

    FUCK TORURE PORN

    by Votadini1983

    I really hope they get the message of this talkback and stop promoting this shite.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Subovon: Good point

    by spud mcspud

    "Also, a graphic, violent film about the worst that humans are capable of doing to each other, can be completely respectful of the audience": RE Saving Private Ryan. Gory, utterly horrifying and totally respecting the audience, in fact daring them to deal with the horror and keep up with the action, much as the original soldiers that fought that battle were forced to. It was real, in your face, horrific and shook you up by the balls. That first sequence on Omaha beach will live on in movie history as one of the most viscerally realistic and horrifying battle scenes in memory. Awesone in every sense.<P> I don't think Eli would understand where it's coming from AT ALL.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth movies are total garbage.

    by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz

    I have hated each movie. I really truly gave this guy a chance. I am sure he's a nice guy but honestly is talentless. The ONLY thing I've enjoyed by him was that Thanksgiving trailer in Grindhouse. For that I say great job you made me laugh. However Cabin Fever and Hostel were both the suck.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Wow. You know who I kind of feel bad for right now?

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Quint.<P>Good luck tomorrow, buddy!

  • June 3, 2007, 5:11 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by lecter1914

    I think AICN is raping our brains. The first two times they forced Eli on us we went for it. We took it, even though it ended up hurting most of us alot. It even left some scarring. Now, despite our constant protest and screaming of no...they continue to force Eli on us. Moriarty and Capone hold us down while Quint holds our mouths closed. Then, with a big smile on his face, Harry pulls out his Eli and forces it upon us. This is wrong and has to stop.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:13 p.m. CST

    The word torture porn discredits the film... pure gold!

    by Particularly Hard Vato

    Absolutely incredible. Eli Roth is a real genius here. "Soldiers watch my films to let their emotions out,"It's a commentary on the current administration," and the solid gem of gems, "The word torture porn discredits the film." Eli Roth- fuck you. Fuck you because you know as well as anyone with an IQ above that of a snail that a bunch of accountants, movie "investmant guys" and anyone else shallow enough to make a buck promoting this shit to the sick perverts that enjoy it sat down with a copy of excel and decided that this film would MAKE MONEY. I would have more respect for you if you just pulled an Ewe Boll and said that your films made investors money so they were justified. But no- you actually promote it as art. You actually talk about your film as some contribution to society. I assume you rehearse this shit in the mirror in the morning- "I produce something of value," repeated over and over again like some football star getting ready for the big game. In reality, you are trying to justify all of the compromises you have had to make to your own ego and your own sense of self worth knowing that all you produce is a movie that hits the lowest common denominator- a level of gore and perversion that any film maker with real skill could do much better, but they choose not to because they do not appeal to the group of depraved perverts that watch your crap. So stop being a coward and come out and admit that you are making money off of the lowest common denominator. And keep feeding the lowest of the low what they enjoy.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:15 p.m. CST

    subovon's 2 cents

    by billyhitchcock

    i was just trying to construct a comment but couldn't get the words out. then i read your last post and it was exactly what i was trying to say. i was even thinking re-animator :-)

  • June 3, 2007, 5:16 p.m. CST

    To David Edelstein -

    by Rebeck3

    First of all thanks for dropping by and slumming with us everyday geeks. I don't always agree with your reviews, naturally, but I do respect you as an unbiased and honest critic. I realize that it's easy to blame movie critics for all the sins of the world (as opposed to, say, just "American Beauty"), but I do think that as a group you should take some of the responsibility for this slippery-slope we're on now. And again, in my opinion, it DID start with the ridiculous deification of Tarantino. Here's my theory on that. Critics get bored easily because they see every bad movie that comes out and as we all know there are an endless supply of those babies, so when a movie manages to actually shock them out of their torpor, they give it way too much credit and love it disproportionally. When you labeled Tarantino's amoral take on something like cutting a man's ear off as "genius" and the casual sadism running through most of his movies as "wicked fun", what you did was open the door to a new kind of screen violence. You were inviting filmmakers to ratchet up their violence and play it for laughs or just go for the most extreme shock value. That was what was "hip" - a sure way to prove your coolness. I have watched as we have slowly become more and more desensitized not just to violence or torture, but to morality over all. And I'm a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT COMMIE SCREENWRITER who can't stand organized religion! What does that tell you?! Everything from amped-up drawn-out human suffering to hitmen-as-heroes, it's all become just so much black comedy wallpaper. Where does it end? Your TV partner/opponent Richard Roeper is a perfect example - I've seen him praise the ugliest, most pointless (and cynical) bloodbaths to high heaven, and then other times shake his head and tsk-tsk over others as if he has no idea what encouraged these filmmakers to go "too far". Uh, you did, Rich - you infantile prick. (You can tell him I said that) Of course, I don't think critics can ever STOP a trend, but they can - and you started it with your article - they can call it out for exactly what it is and not just follow the box-office numbers. Your term "Torture Porn" is now going to go down the ages and hopefully make a few people think. Well done. All I'm saying is the problem is broader than just that one sub-genre. I'm afraid we are losing our ability to FEEL. I remember seeing "Taxi Driver" when I was 12 and being traumatized by the climax, what I still think is the most disturbing violence I've ever seen on screen. But there's a POINT to that movie, a purpose and a portrait of real individual (the disaffected white male loner) that society was just coming to understand at the time. I could list a million other examples where violence is justified and yes, the highlight of the film, but when did it start to become an end and goal of its own? I would say when a certain asexual fatherless video-numbed-out sociopath started making movies in the 90's and all you critics started regularly fellating him. I realize that's an unpopular opinion around here, but that's what I think and what I've observed.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:17 p.m. CST

    indeed

    by TheHorror

    3 articles on the front page you would think is enough, but "Oh darn, we booked him twice, golly we sure are are silly billys!" Fuck this promotion and fuck this film.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Great example, spud mcspud!

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-weight:bold'>The first 20 minutes of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN are one of my favorite experiences in a movie theatre. It was one of the hardest things I've ever sat through. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-weight:bold'>It's a perfect example of horror. It's faithful to real life, it's disgusting, suspenseful, and a great artistic achievement that is respectful of its audience. It's also a great example of frightening, graphic horror that is gory, and I couldn't think of one in my last post. It's great you came up with it, because not only is it from a war movie - not a horror movie, but also because it's from one of the great filmmakers around. It epitomizes why I love horror films: because I love great stories, and it ultimately does not matter what the subject is, or what genre it fits. Cheers!</span></p>

  • June 3, 2007, 5:19 p.m. CST

    HEY HERES A QUESTION WHAT HAPPENED TO THE

    by Judge Dredds Dirty Undies

    BRUCE WILLIS Q & A? He probably saw that people lost all respect for him in comparison to Sly.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Particularly Hard Vato - good points also

    by spud mcspud

    Agree very much with your diatribe there. And you are also particularly loquacious. You belong here, sir, with those of us looking to engineer the downfall of the Roth, and his torture porn.<P> Seriously, though, great post, and I second your argument. If Eli wishes to sell sick to sickos, at least have the balls to own up to it. You can at least say that about Uwe Boll, the talentless fucker.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Harry- seriously- its about credibility for your site

    by Particularly Hard Vato

    Harry, Capone, Moriarty, everyone else- come on! The more you promote this stuff the more you marginalize your mainstream audience. Not every moviegoer who reads your site enjoys this crap! I have started to see a trend here where it's not about getting the cool scoop or showing some news no one else has. The more you promote a bizarre niche group of films like the trash Eli Roth produces, the fewer readers you will have. You are running the risk of becoming irrevelant. People will get their news elsewhere. Your ad impressions will decline, your site will decline. Stop promoting this kind of margin garbage or you will start to lose readership!

  • June 3, 2007, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Thanks, Subovon...and again, TheHorror

    by Bones

    Re-Animator and Evil Dead are two amazing films, completely over-the-top and they both have fun sequels as well...TCM'74 is a classic and you are right about the almost bloodless nature of it...it is lurid without being too graphic. All of these films are also so extreme you cannot take them seriously. You can enjoy the technique of the fake violence in them without feeling like you were an actual witness to something horrible. Carpenter's The Thing, for years considered to be so amazingly graphic is tame by modern tastes...because modern movies want to blur the line so much that you cannot tell what is real and what is fantasy. Maybe that is where I am having the problem--I have no problem with monster movies or ghost stories or dark fantasies like Hellraiser--because I know they are not real. I don't enjoy films like Ichi the Killer or Cannibal Holicaust, that try to recreate the experience of torture--because those are things that ACTUALLY happen--even though they are presented in hyper-fantasy terms.<p> I honestly am grateful for this Talkback and the opportunity to have a dialogue like this.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Correllation???

    by Lane

    Roth interview / Hostel articles = HD-DVD banner ads / "Harry's HD format Choice."

  • June 3, 2007, 5:26 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Votadini1983

    I think you're right DutchTreat. That screener will cost them big. It all depends if they can get the women out, which they might.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:26 p.m. CST

    To Edelstein-

    by lloydfromentourage

    Exactly. What's a good example of a dissection that actually has an affect? The absolutely insane panel by panel exact recreation of the Ripper taking apart one of this victims in Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell's "From Hell" (the graphic novel not the shitty movie). It's an absolutely maddening and horrifying walk in the mind of a madman and torturer. But I think Roth just gave up the ghost. Giving people a glimpse of blood pouring onto breasts as a reward, figuring out that horror films are cathartic (what horror buff doesn't know this defensible argument) after the fact and then applying it to his work, etc. I completely understand why torture porn exists and is so heavily trafficked by teenagers today - look at the borrowing of the Abu Gharib iconography in Children of Men in the bus scene, which every time I saw the movie always seemed to get an audible response from someone. The problem is Roth is too much of a shill for Roth and it's all about excess triumphing over smarts. We've got to stop taking this stuff seriously.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST

    A bunch of sissies

    by leolo

    That's what we all are. C'mon it's "Hostel". Much ado about nothing. And I really don't know, but I don´t think it's SANE AT ALL to describe a fucking mediocre-exploitation-not so violent-adolescent summer flick as "sick perversion for retardeds, wankers, assholes serial killers wannabe's and all others who like to eat shit", and afrterwards start a political debate about democrats against republicans... but maybe all this is merely an eficient and low cost marketing strategy.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Hostel could've been good...maybe?

    by TheHorror

    In the right hands, someone who can actually direct and isn't obsessed w/ cheap and lame money shots, I could actually see it as a classic genre film, it might have had a message about the darkest depths of the human soul where I'm sure there are some sick fucks who wanna kill people in a shitty room - if someone cared about the film I feel it would've been great, Eli just churned out a film and seeing as he has no genuine care to cionstruct a character he has no hang-ups about using them as sick & perverse cheap shot deaths. I really do hate this film and now officially the franchise...fuck this film!

  • June 3, 2007, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Fuck Hostel

    by The Grey Ghost

    Great to hear Eli Roth figures himself as the Bob Hope of the 21st century... you know, entertaining the troops and all with women being hacked apart with machetes and penises being fed to dogs. I bet that's a big hit on movie night at Abu Ghraib. Real "therapeutic." Thanks to Dr. Roth, I think it's safe to call post-traumatic stress disorder a thing of the past. <br><br> Seriously Capone, did you edit out the series of "winking" emoticons Roth put at the end of each of his responses? Or does this guy actually believe his own fucking bull shit? When he started comparing his body of work to DAWN OF THE DEAD did he begin laughing hysterically and then say something to the effect of, "Oh Jesus, oh Jesus Christ... I'm sorry. That's total fucking bull shit, but you've got to keep that in. That'll make people shit themselves..."? <br><br> If so, great interview. The guy's a fucking laugh riot. Christ. <br><br> Listen, it's not that we're prudes, it's not that we don't have an appreciation for horror, trash cinema, or hell, let's be honest, even pornography. But your movies just suck, Mr. Roth. They work on none of the levels you think they do, or at least that you tell yourself they do. They're not entertaining, they're not intelligent and for fuck's sake, they're not SCARY. Gross definitely, but not scary. If you think scaring an audience is subjecting them to two hours of men and women being tortured and dismembered sans any plot, characterization or suspense whatsoever, I suggest you get yourself a fucking Netflix subscription, start with Nosferatu and move on from there. <br><br> Now, I know you don't give a fragment of a shit about what people have to say here. Your movie's probably going to be a hit, so you can take your smirking pretensions all the way to the bank. But you know what, Mr. Roth? It's not going to be the horror fanbase (your, er, "target audience" *cough* *cough*) that's going to make your movie a hit, no, it's going to be the same mass of undiscriminating meatheads who sit at their computers watching YouTube and downloading pictures from Rotten.com all day. When push comes to shove Mr. Roth, you're nothing more than Simon Cowell in a Cannibal Holocaust t-shirt. <br><br> God damn it, man. What sort of bad J.G. Ballard novel are we living in?

  • June 3, 2007, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Fox News: Fair and Balanced....

    by guerillakarma

    news for the right.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:41 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL!

    by lost.rules

    "My captain My captain."

  • June 3, 2007, 5:43 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by lost.rules

    "I broke the dam."

  • June 3, 2007, 5:44 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL!

    by lost.rules

    "I am Malcom X."

  • June 3, 2007, 5:45 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth hated Crash?

    by BadMrWonka

    I have officially elevated my opinion of him slightly...from "hack" to "semi-hack"...can't wait to see the penises! THAT'S what puts asses in the seats!

  • June 3, 2007, 5:46 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by lost.rules

    "So say we all."

  • June 3, 2007, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Roth is still one arrogant sick fuck....

    by Monkey_King

    CABIN FEVER sucked just as much as HOSTEL did.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Well, Bones,

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-weight:bold'>One of the reasons I love the original TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE is because it *is* realistic. To me, it looks like a snuff film. Kind of like one of the survivors didn't turn off his 8mm camera. I enjoy the safety of the theatre when I watch these films, and of course, I know in the back of my mind that the people onscreen are actors. But the movie is so well done, that while I'm suspending my disbelief, I can forget it's a movie. The actors are so good that I empathize with them, and it's a real rush! Kind of like the first and highest drop on a roller coaster. Some part of my brain is going &quot;Aw, hell, no way I'll survive this fall!&quot; It's part of the fun. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-weight:bold'>The problem with HOSTEL 1 is that it is the work of someone who is clearly trying to go for that kind of storytelling, but who has neither the talent, the experience, or the patience necessary to achieve his goal. I mean that script is something that must have been written in an afternoon. He's taking shortcuts out of ignorance, or laziness, or both (my guess is both).<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-weight:bold'>But then, hey, it's only a movie!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

  • June 3, 2007, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Man I Have Never

    by KurtRussellsBeard

    seen so much hate for a director on this site, I can understand why people dont like Roth but "Cabin Fever" really is the last good horror film that has been made. It's a great horror film and know one has come close to makeing anything better since then.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:57 p.m. CST

    KurtRussellsBeard...uhm...

    by Rebeck3

    You're joking, right? How can someone whose name is inspired by one of the great monster films of all time also think "Cabin Fever" is "great"? Or did I see a different "Cabin Fever"? We're talking about the one with the stupid N-word joke at the end? Yeah - classic, dude.

  • June 3, 2007, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Feck Hostel...

    by loafroaster

    From an Irishman. When it wasn't being unashamedly exploitative, it was self-indulgent crap with a 'shock ending' that'd make Shamalamadingdong blush. And this is coming from a guy who didn't mind Cabin Fever. But I digress, I think Roth's saving grace or final nail will be in adapting Cell. We already know the book was a simple, fun ride, and it'd be pretty hard to feck up. It he can't do it justice, he doesn't deserve another chance.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:03 p.m. CST

    The Matador was NOT NC-17

    by Tripman5000

    MATADOR was-totally different film,directed by Pedro Almodóvar and starring Antonio Banderas.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:03 p.m. CST

    KurtRussellsBeard...

    by loafroaster

    ...Cabin Fever isn't fit to lick the climbing boots of The Descent.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:05 p.m. CST

    Cabin Fever.

    by Tripman5000

    I still understand what the FUCK the bit with the Kung Fu kid was about....

  • June 3, 2007, 6:08 p.m. CST

    What exactly is he trying to say?

    by We

    In response to critics accusing him of exploiting women in the first Hostel (with the excessive nudity), he puts a naked guy in the sequel, but has him model for art class, and that, according to Roth's reasoning, is not to be exploitative. "I literally have it in there just to fuck with critics". What exactly is he trying to say? By having an excuse to show a naked guy in the sequel it automatically makes the first one seem less exploitative? I can't seem to wrap my head around that argument.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:08 p.m. CST

    loafroaster

    by Subovon

    Good call, THE DESCENT was a great movie! What's more, it's a rare horror film featuring an entire cast of strong, realistic women. I loved it, and it scared the hell out of me. Gonna watch it again tonight. Thanks for the suggestion!

  • June 3, 2007, 6:09 p.m. CST

    re: The Matador was NOT NC-17

    by TheHorror

    my bad, still my point is true - why is this film not nc-17? its got a full frontal castration - orgazmo is all dick and fart jokes! he's clearly sucking someones penis - fuck this film

  • June 3, 2007, 6:12 p.m. CST

    the descent

    by TheHorror

    now that is an awesome film! claustrophobic nature and that fucked up crawller thing makes it scary as hell - i think it's one of the only films that had me scared with it's trailer too!

  • June 3, 2007, 6:16 p.m. CST

    FUDGE HOSTEL

    by lost.rules

    Mmmmmhhhhhh....Fudge Hostel...oh, yeah!

  • June 3, 2007, 6:17 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Votadini1983

    Agreed that the Descent was a proper fuckin horror movie. I just wish I'd seen it at the cinema.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:18 p.m. CST

    TheHorror.

    by Tripman5000

    I know exactly what you mean.I think this film will have real trouble getting passed uncut here in the UK-sexualised violence against women is a big no-no as far as the BBFC are concerned.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:22 p.m. CST

    You know why Porn is called Porn?...

    by Ninja_Master

    ...and not horror? Because all it is, is nudity and sex. There's nudity/sex Halloween, Dawn of the Dead, Nightmare on Elm's Street, etc, but they don't call them porn, because you see, there's a movie to go around it. When your movie's point and punchline is the nudity/sex, that's called porn. Hostel also takes one of horrors titillating aspects and makes it the entire film. It is porn, with gore instead of sex. Take a look at a real horror film; The Descent. You could remove all of the violence, and it'd still be frightening, because there is so much more than gore. You remove the gore from Hostel, and what do you have? Nothing. That's why it's called Torture Porn. It's talentless shit to shock and sicken the audience for 2 hours. BUT it never fucking scares them. It is never fucking scary. It isn't horror. It is torture-porn. Roth talks like critics can't understand the intelligence of his films, what a stupid prick. Your film, and so many like it, are cheapening horror in the same way Michael Bay is cheapening action.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:30 p.m. CST

    Awkward!

    by TheHorror

    I'm anticipatind some awkward pauses/moments in the interview tomorrow, 300 odd posts and probably at least 95% negative. If you can ask Roth this - Will he ever try and make a film, like really try, all this uninspired bullshit is getting old - you gotta try w/ the production not just the promotion and also tell him to fuck this film - all this talk about bringing sequals back - all you've done is make a remake of your own fucking film you made a year ago you faggot but worse and rode the iraq war for your own miserable gains which a lot of people are sick of "Fuck George Bush" and all that - power to the indies! Fuck Hollywood w/ their 50 million dollar budgets - that's all well and good when you make a film that loks as good as hot fuzz that genuinly compares to a huge production like Bad Boys 2, your hashed up film was made for a lot more than a lot of indie flicks hat wipe the floor w/ it. I really hope it tanks - never use a downright horrible situation like the Iraq war, where "the people" failed to get their message across to their rulers and people are rightly frustrated, for your own personal gains. There should be a fucking law against it - ecspecially when your film is so shit - Your pushing impressionable kids at a rebellious age in a direction they don't need to go - how is your movie going to change or help things in Iraq - how EXACTLY is it a social commentary on the plight of global politics and democracy. I honestly hop you think about these things if not shame on you, you've made a bad situation a whole lot worse, stop talking politics, in which the second installment of your ugly film has no references (and destroyed any your first flookily did touch on) and talk about why yopu feel this is a good film, an addition to a genre - i'll tell you why you won't because it isn't, there's no depth to your characters and a twist that makes no sense, plus a horrible bit on a train that looks as if it was shot in a school corridor. Fuck yopu and fuck your film - I hope the B.O reflects what movie-lovers feel and you get a serious talking to by the execs or whoever you answer to - it's a shitty film Eli, fuck you and fuck the concept as a whole! I'm out!!!!

  • June 3, 2007, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Just look at the IMDB ratings of his films

    by MondoMelvin

    Cabin Fever - 5.2 Hostel - 5.8 And while the films both made a profit, neither one made over 50 million, which means they were successful, but hardly sensations. So why the fuck is Eli Roth everywhere we turn? Because he wants to be famous more than make good movies. He's got a great publicist, and what he obviously really cares about is keeping his own name and face in the media, and creating his own myth. I mean, FOUR commentary tracks for Hostel, each one with HIM on it? Give me a fucking break.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:37 p.m. CST

    An insight into Roths mentality...

    by Tripman5000

    After winner an Empire Award for Best Horror for "Hostel"(god only knows why),Roth said something along the lines of "My aim in life is to get as many women as I can to get naked and get slaughtered on film". Apologies for not geting the exact quote,I've since trhwon the mag away indisgust...

  • June 3, 2007, 6:38 p.m. CST

    Just look at the IMDB ratings of his films

    by MondoMelvin

    Cabin Fever - 5.2 Hostel - 5.8 His movies are not well-liked. Period. And while the films both made a profit, neither one made over 50 million, which means they were successful, but hardly sensations. So why the fuck is Eli Roth everywhere we turn? Because he wants to be famous more than make good movies. He's got a great publicist, and what he obviously really cares about is keeping his own name and face in the media, and creating his own myth. I mean, FOUR commentary tracks for Hostel, each one with HIM on it? Give me a fucking break.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:39 p.m. CST

    And apologies again for poor spelling and grammer...

    by Tripman5000

    ....I'm tired and recovering from a car accident!

  • June 3, 2007, 6:43 p.m. CST

    This TB Feels Like A Coup!

    by Rebeck3

    It's like an uprising against the AICN hype for this piece of shit. And if you're wondering whether I mean the film or the filmmaker... The answer is YES.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:44 p.m. CST

    HOSTEL SUCKS

    by CQuest

    i can just see one of eli's friends now " holy shit they fuckin HATE YOU DUDE!" eli is like "yea fuck them, they will all go see it" how bout we show him whats really good, and NOT see it? how bout everyone here convince at least 1 person that would go see it, NOT to go see it. and have that person convince someone else. everyone work on making sure this film has a 14 person opening night

  • June 3, 2007, 6:46 p.m. CST

    The Descent...

    by loafroaster

    ...is a great example of how a modern horror film can exceed it's own hype. Eli Roth take note: this is how to make a character-driven, claustrophobic and atmospheric piece that scares the shit out of you. *SPOILER* To me, the scene where one of 'the crawlers' appears behind the girls in night-vision is the modern equivalent to Ben Gardener's head popping out of his boat in Jaws. It sickens me that hacks like Roth are being constantly hyped, while guys like Neil Marshal, who could actually be a ligitimate threat to the horror masters' collective throne are given little press.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:46 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by CQuest

    just had to go back and do it again. REMEMBER, CONVINCE PEOPLE NOT TO GO PAY TO SEE THIS ON OPENING WEEKEND. show these studios that these talk backs actually mean something.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:46 p.m. CST

    All you anti Eli folk's are lowlife's

    by BrightEyes

    I honestly believe that you people are the sick one's who get off on talking trash on Eli Roth. Wierd.

  • June 3, 2007, 6:50 p.m. CST

    I wanna break my Uwe Boll virginity....

    by Jakes Nel

    Any suggestions on which "film" of his to watch first?

  • June 3, 2007, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Want to know why Rome fell?

    by Bean_

    The senators and the Emperor came up with Bread and Circus programs to distract people from the fact that Rome was collapsing. So how did they distract them? With brutal gladiator matches, slaves being destroyed by wild animals, vulgar sex acts... Hostel and other movies like it are the modern Bread and Circus of our society. When people see the horrors of war, they've been tuned out to it by incredibly violent movies. Several soldiers are blown up in Iraq... but did you see that scene from SAW III??? I'm not a prude, Christian or hardass. I'm a liberal hippie. But these movies piss me off so much, because I see what it does to people.

  • June 3, 2007, 7:13 p.m. CST

    CUTTING a PENIS off is not THAT shocking...

    by Rex Manning

    ..is it? <p> I mean isn't it the first thing any horror kid does with a camcorder a hotdog and a bottle of ketchup? <p> Loved Hostel but Part II is an aimless, pointless, sickening check casher. Sorry.

  • June 3, 2007, 7:25 p.m. CST

    loafroaster- I couldn't agree more

    by Lovecraftfan

    Loved Descent and Dog Soldiers

  • June 3, 2007, 7:28 p.m. CST

    Worst interview EVER!!!!

    by Power_Girl

    Eli is just a sad sicko who is desperately trying to justify his shitty/disgusting crappy movies.

  • June 3, 2007, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth is a friend of the site

    by The Funketeer

    and Harry always caters to his friends. Do not mistake this for a news site. It stopped being that a long time ago. We would not have read nearly as much about Hostel 2 if Harry and Eli were not friends.

  • June 3, 2007, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Jakes Nel

    by Jack Burton

    House of the Dead is pretty funny, as is Alone in the Dark. Bloodrayne is just mediocre, too boring to be entertaining.

  • June 3, 2007, 7:36 p.m. CST

    Hostel was really not good... not good at all.

    by El Scorcho

    I like Eli and his spirit for film is nice, but besides him looking like an ass in the Fox interview, the first Hostel was really weak. Not scary at all. The hype really killed it. I have no real interest in the sequel. Cabin Fever was far superior.

  • June 3, 2007, 7:37 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL... GOOD NIGHT!

    by spud mcspud

    It's 1.35am here in the UK, and I say Fuck Eli roth! Fuck Hostel! CELL is your last chance to be anything other than the Michael Bay of torture porn! Listen to Subovon, TheHorror, and TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION... and most of all, to the humble mcSpud! The end is nigh for shit sicko pseudosnuff!!! WE WANT QUALITY HORROR! See: Neil Marshall, Zack Snyder, Alejandre Aja... I'm out, will be back tomorrow. GOOD NIGHT - THE GREATEST AND MOST INTELLIGENT TALKBACK IN A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME!!!! Good night all!

  • June 3, 2007, 7:41 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by lost.rules

    Yeah!

  • June 3, 2007, 7:41 p.m. CST

    Barbara Streissand films are really scary

    by leolo

    and very porn torture

  • June 3, 2007, 7:43 p.m. CST

    You heard it hear first

    by IJUSTLIKEMOVIES

    I would rather pay $1000 to see Dane Cook star in a movie directed by Uwe Boll AND Paul W.S. Anderson than throw down $9 on Hostel 2.

  • June 3, 2007, 7:51 p.m. CST

    Cook/Boll/Anderson

    by IJUSTLIKEMOVIES

    It's an adaptation of a video game adaption of a remake of Tourgasm. That's torture porn I can deal with.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:12 p.m. CST

    I like Roth even less now

    by Nezzer6364

    Man he’s a talentless douchebag. The bad part is he thinks he’s deep and creating something meaningful. I’m surprised he stopped beating off to snuff films long enough to give an interview. His films have about as much plot in them as the Japanese Guinea Pig movies.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:21 p.m. CST

    this TB hopefully gives Qunit something to think on ...

    by JFilm101

    I do hope he avoids softball questions and groupie repartee w/ Mr. Roth. I'M disappointed in the "interview" Capone had with him. I am impressed with the minor (and meta) thoughts being kicked around on this TB re: Roth's films, what he represents in horror, and larger social implications of it. To Loafroaster and Sobovon: GREAT call on "The Descent" ... I brought up that film on another Eli related AICN thread (what are there around 50 now?). You look at what Neil Marshall pulled off in that film (killer supsense and atmosphere with some fully - realized characters and a pretty f'ed up situation -- not to mention some violence / gore that actually had a 'point' to it. If they are part of the same group of emerging horror filmmakers then perhaps Roth should rent that film and watch it for say 6 months straight on a continual loop -- maybe a modicum of it's ideas and originality could somehow pass on to him .......... NAH.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST

    Predator is for sickos!

    by veebeeyes

    Anyone who gets off watching sharks eating people is a sick psychopath! My mom was eaten by a bear! My dad was eaten by a giant crocodile! In a world where hundreds of people are killed by animals each year, only a sick motherfucker would go to the movies to see people getting eaten! Utterly indefensible! Blah, blah, blah!

  • June 3, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST

    What hypocritical bullshit

    by DukeDeMondo

    I'm sorry, but the gnashing and wailing and gum-grinding going on here with regards Hostel and the "realistic" nature of proceedings is as hard to stomach as the "torture-porn" so many are going so far out of their way to squeal with offence regarding. Hostel is a flawed piece of work, no doubt about that, but it DID have something to say, however muddied that may have been, and it WAS more intelligent that the likes of, say, Saw III, which had neither nothing to say nor any aesthetic value worth a frosted shit on a Christmas morn. if you wanna talk about torture porn, talk about the rambo flicks you were all flappin' your last nut-sack-wrinkle to froth over the head of a few weeks back. THAT is pornographic violence. pornography is, at one level, about presenting an extremely stylised (even if the style is "no style") image of human sexuality that has little in common with the embaressing blue-arse bobbin (not to mention emotional weight) of real-life sexual shenanigans. the Rambo flicks (i'm usin this example purely because it's one fresh in the mind) did exactly the same thing with violence. as does 99% of action cinema. violence is fun, nameless fuckers being blown to blazes and we've forgotten about it ten seconds later. it's a too-tanned fella gettin the neck ripped out in a car. Holy Jesus Fistin Fuck, Rambo Tore A Guy's Throat Out! Reminds Me Of Commando! it's fun and has no purpose other than to entertain and to get the adrenaline goin. THat is violence as pornography. A man screaming till he pukes because of the pain he's sufferin? a horrible, unwatchable stomp off of a head on a street? Somethin that makes you feel replused and dirty and uncomfortable and disturbed? That is NOT porn. that is a fuck of a lot more commendable than war as giddy carousel of delirious gung ho abandon, violence as somethin to raise fists in the air with joy, rather than mouths to the faces in sorrow. I'm not sayin i don't enjoy action flicks full of ridiculous gore and explosions and kicks to the arse-buttons and what have you. i very much do. but i won't pretend that the violence in those films isn't a hell of a lot more offensive than, say, that fire-extinguisher carry-on or rape in Irreversible. The folks complaining that Hostel and its ilk are too realistic, that they linger too long on the effects of suffering should ask themselves why they want to ENJOY the presentation of human suffering. This is an old, old debate, people. Goes right back to the Hays Code. Goes right back to Peckinpah and Jodorowsky. Damn shame we're still havin' it. www.mondoirlando.com

  • June 3, 2007, 8:24 p.m. CST

    If you Hate him so much

    by BrightEyes

    Why waste your life talking about how much you hate him. You all claim you would'nt waste time watching his films or waste your time on him, But you're wasting your life on these talkback's. Go talk about something you like, like transformers or Lost or whatever it is you like, and stop wasting time on bashing Eli Roth.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:26 p.m. CST

    I'm shocked and pleased that Roth has few...

    by rbatty024

    defenders. Good taste prevails.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Dukedemondo...

    by veebeeyes

    I couldn't agree more.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Oh thank god for AICN talk-backers,

    by Cymbol

    I was truely getting worried that the world had moved on without me and torture porn was a new brand of acceptable entertainment. I don't care if it has blood and guts if there is a story behind it. To have Eli say there is not only a story, but a deep social commentary is laughable. I'm so glad people are turning their backs on this. Whew!

  • June 3, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST

    WHY DIDNT YOU ASK HIM ABOUT "THANKSGIVING"?!!

    by Mike_D

    jeeze!

  • June 3, 2007, 8:35 p.m. CST

    Film School Dropouts

    by BrightEyes

    It's not too late, make films and stop bashing a guy who is folling his dreams and making awesome horror films.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:41 p.m. CST

    Dukedemondo...

    by rbatty024

    this is nothing like the Hays Code or any other kind of rating system or censorship. People are not objecting to the violence itself but how it is used. You use the analogy of a Rambo film, which is a fair, if flawed, comparison. The violence in action films are often as graphic, but the power dynamics in those films are different than in Hostel. In Hostel the victim is powerless while the perpetrator is all powerful. To be able to do whatever one wants with another person's body is obviously analogous to rape, hence the term "torture porn." Unfortunately the audience seems to enjoy that power structure, but instead of sex the filmmakers have substituted violence. Ironically, the "moral" of the film, that the victims are being degredated in a similar way they have degredated others, even allows the audience to feel some sort of justification for enjoying this all powerful violence. Torture can be used in thoughtful ways in film and specifically in horror films, but unfortunately Eli Roth has yet to figure out how.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:41 p.m. CST

    pretentious bullshit

    by omarthesnake

    So "torture porn" comes from lazy critics? No, it comes from Eli not yet proving to be anything more than a one-note hack who couldn't create a genuinely tense scenario without fucking razor blades. And he doesn't want his movies to be relentlessly unpleasant? Then make a real movie, not goddamned TORTURE PORN.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth is a douchebag moron

    by zikade zarathos

    He made no good points. "Social commentary"? Give me a fucking break. NO ONE gives a shit about this movie, and yet it's plastered all over this site. Just because he's pals with Quentin is he allowed to continue shitting all over the cineplexes.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:51 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by lost.rules

    I don't think I'm alone on this.

  • June 3, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Im sorry......you people are pathetic

    by BrightEyes

    It's sad when people get off on talking trash on people they so call "Hate". Just like the losers on imdb who talk about how they would'nt watch an Eli Roth film if they were paid money, yet there post history is mostly on all things related to Eli Roth and his films. It's jealous filmschool dropout's who wish they had his life and made his film's and dated his girlfriend's but they are stuck on the computer talking about how much he sucks and how his film's are stupid and they wont watch them, similar to people who say they are done with Lost yet watch every week. Get over yourself's and if you hate Eli Roth than dont talk about him, it's just that simple. Eli Roth is a great horror writer/director. He's making hard "R" films when the studios are making pg-13 crap horror films.

  • June 3, 2007, 9 p.m. CST

    Mr Sinister...

    by DukeDeMondo

    I don't think it's true at all to say that in roth's films violence is the story. in fact, hostel has very little ACTUAL on-screen violence, and what there is, is usually shrouded in six-dozen layers of murk. The talk about how gory and explicit Hostel is reminds me some of similar banter regarding Texas Chain Saw Massacre, another film with the reputation for being a lot more graphic than it is, purely on account of the mood of utter despair and doom that hangs over every damn frame. and i think - and i'm not the only one, many's a notable critic has talked about it before now (Kim Newman being one, in an article written for Sight And Sound around the time of the first film's release)- Hostel DOES have a hell of a lot to say. it raises a lot of uncomfortable questions about the old "if you knew you couldn't get caught... WOULD you?" which i'd like to think most people would answer in the negative to, but there are SOME people who would say yes in a heartbeat, and the thought that it's the person next to you on the bus, or the youth leader at the church or the camp or whatever, well... it's a distressing thought. It talks too about (and i'm not USA bashing. i find that altogether deeply replusive) an affluent society's treatment of, and responsibility for, cultures crawling about in economic collapse. (this is one of a few parallels with the likes of Deliverance). it might not be ground-breaking (rich countries quite literarly fucking the rest) but it IS there. it's pretty damn blatant, actually. if there's any criticism to be made it's that the message IS a touch sixth-form politics at times, but it's no less commendable for that. what suprises me is that people actually question the existence of these messages anywhere in the picture, when it's oft-times as blatant as CRASH. Roth does himself no favours, playing up the T&A-lovin jock type in every other interview, but Hostel does NOT play to that. if sections of the audience get somethin else from it, well, that's a problem with them, not with the film. many's a sick bastard has wanked himself insane over many's a curious thing before now.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:07 p.m. CST

    This TB has restored my faith in humanity...

    by JackIsLost

    It's very refreshing to see so little support for the trash of Eli Roth. The reason Roth and his ilk hate the phrase "torture porn" is because it hits what he does on the head exactly. I remember laughing at the "Thanksgiving" trailer during GRINDHOUSE, until I realized that if Roth were making movies 30 years ago, that is EXACTLY the type of film he would be making. So, sorry, for all the people who want to sound cool and hip but watching someone being gutted and having their fingernails pulled out for the thrill of it is pretty sick and gross. You could certainly make a movie about people who enjoy this activity and how sick they are and that would have social commentary... but that is not what "Hostel" is. HOSTEL, if actually did have any value (which it doesn't) is the very thing it deplores... it wants to have it's cake and eat it too. Torture porn is worthless garbage.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:09 p.m. CST

    A quote from Lionsgate CEO Jon Feltheimer...

    by LaudnerGomez

    "Just because it sucks doesn't mean we can't make a few bucks with it" - Fortune Magazine, 6/18/06 --------------- This workprint situation is great because now a lot more critics that Lionsgate typically keeps away from their product will be able to review the film - leaving Roth exposed as the hack that he is.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:12 p.m. CST

    h

    by huggerorange

    wah wah who gives a fuck...its a cool horror flick. Enjoy it, at least i will.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:14 p.m. CST

    JackIsLost

    by DukeDeMondo

    "So, sorry, for all the people who want to sound cool and hip but watching someone being gutted and having their fingernails pulled out for the thrill of it is pretty sick and gross. " It is, you're right. But you know there are folks in the world who enjoy watchin' American History X becuase it has a bit with a black man gettin his head crushed. Is American History X to blame for that? No, it's not.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST

    American History X...

    by JackIsLost

    while not a great film, does revel in its violence but instead presents it with true horror rather than something that should provide you with a "rush". Of course, violence has its place in film. It's to what purpose that's the issue...

  • June 3, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST

    The funny thing is that in 20 years -

    by Laserbrain

    These Hostel films will seem like laughable, jokey curios and all the hand wringing about the damage they're doing to society will seem to have been rather quaint. Which, I am at pains to say, doesn't excuse them for being slop and Roth for being a seriously deluded hack of the lowest order. "I'm showing dicks in my movie- I am a feminist!" No, mate, you are an equal opportunity sadist.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Fuck the pussies

    by TORTURE PWN

    Waa...No social value!Waa...Roth sucks!Waa...Eli gave my mom crabs,now I got 'em too!Waa...torture porn!Bunch of little whiny pussies who are scared of a little movie.Guess the rest of us who just want to watch a horror movie can do it in peace if all you crybaby sissies stay home.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:22 p.m. CST

    i meant "doesn't revel in its violence"...

    by JackIsLost

    oops

  • June 3, 2007, 9:25 p.m. CST

    DukeDeMondo...

    by rbatty024

    True, I've met some sickos who enjoyed American History X because of that scene alone, but the rest of the film goes on to make it clear that not only what the protagonist does is wrong but also shows the protagonist attempt redemption. I stand by the idea that Eli Roth's "moral" gives the okay for the audience to relate with the torturers and does not complicate the perpetrator/victim relationship enough for any sort of real "social commentary." (Although kudos for actually defending the film logically instead of attacking the detractors).

  • June 3, 2007, 9:26 p.m. CST

    torture porn, take me away

    by thebearovingian

    Just like Calgon.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:36 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth has 6 AICN accounts and is defeding himself

    by Power_Girl

    here on this very AICN talkback...so sad Mr Roth!

  • June 3, 2007, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Does anyone else think...

    by loafroaster

    ...that AICN panicked about all the negative posts Eli Roth was getting, and started paying a few guys to post some positive stuff? It's just weird that it's taken Eli's few fans a good bit of time to answer back to the flak he's been getting.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Power_Girl...

    by loafroaster

    ...Uncanny!

  • June 3, 2007, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Welcome All Eli's Cousins!

    by Rebeck3

    Coming on here after the fact to tell us all what jealous pussies we all are for daring to criticize the talented Mr. Roth. Riiiiiight.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Remember...

    by JackIsLost

    If you don't enjoy the sight of someone having their bowels ripped out and fed to themselves, you're a cock-sucking fag pussy. Some of you people are REALLY sad... (if you're real at all)

  • June 3, 2007, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Power_Girl, Loafroaster

    by Rebeck3

    You both beat me to it. Great minds...

  • June 3, 2007, 9:44 p.m. CST

    American History X talk is nonsense

    by MontyPigeon

    The difference between American History X and Hostel 2 is that American History X has a point to its story. What point at all does Hostel 1 have thats different from Hostel 2? The point that if we have a woman defecating while taking a mans dick off, would outweigh the amazing script of Hostel 2? That's a killer end scene by the way, pity no one has tried for fear of showing their amateurism as a movie maker.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Duke DeMondo

    by JFilm101

    I understand what your argument is re: Hostel vis-a-vis American History X but I think it's a flawed one. The argument, according to most TBers here, is that there is empty, violent spectacle just for the sake of having it in the Hostel films. Of History X, one can at least point to the idea of the cyclical nature of violence and the way that it can become ingrained within a family dynamic (how Furlong's character falls under the sway of the same vicious ideology that almost destroyed his brother). Also, the scene where the black gangbanger gets his head stomped in happened off screen and was left to your imagination (which was far more effective than showing every ghastly detail). Spazatronic 2000: the very fact that you felt the need to articulate how little the opinions on this TB matter proves that they do ... also ad hominem does not a superior argument make.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:51 p.m. CST

    number of posts is going down

    by JackIsLost

    I think Harry has started deleting them.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:51 p.m. CST

    providing a rush

    by DukeDeMondo

    i don't think Hostel does. in fact i don't know anyone who felt anything other than deep depression after seein it. in interviews Roth DOES talk up the gore element, and as i said, it does him more harm than anything in the film, which is a thought-provoking and HUMANE film, just as Salo (which he mentioned) is a thought-provoking and humane film. it's one that presents a diabolically inhumane set of characters, but the film itself does not share their characteristics. I'd be interested to know how many of the people who attack Hostel as being a purely sadistic torture-porn extravaganza have actually seen it. the more i read here, the less sure i am that anyone who claims it's overly sadistic and graphic and revels in its violence has even saw the damn thing. the first hour and ten minutes is almost entirely violence-free. it draws explicit parallels between the fuckers / fuckees, and between the tourists and the locals and America and "others". (again, i'm NOT US-bashin. it's just that these things are blatantly there! it's impossible to talk about what Hostel is saying without mentioning it). The more i read of Roth's banter, the less i think i like HIM, but that's neither here nor there. i think David Lynch is a misogynist, hate-filled knob, but Mulholland Drive as a film, for example, is not. Eli Roth might get off on the notion of presenting this or that "fucked up shit!!!!" (or at least play up the idea that he does), but Hostel (and Cabin Fever, which bears no relation to the other) consistentally reveals that somewhat dispiriting talk as pure guff. If he had made Saw III i would nod and say yeah, well, he's talkin out his arse. he IS just cuttin folks up for to give us a thrill. but instead he made an incredibly interesting, thought-proking, intelligent film. it is glaringly obvious (not least because it keeps the bulk of the torture carry-on till the last twenty minutes) throughout the film that it is concerned with more than cuttin someones eye out for the thrill of it all. it's not a GREAT film, but it's a hell of a lot better than the "torture-porn" banter suggests. And to return to Peckinpah - there's nothing in Hostel that's anywhere near as sickening or as morally reprehensible as the rape scene/s in Straw Dogs. That was a film that used violence sexual and otherwise to talk about reclaiming masculinity. Hostel uses violence to talk about VIOLENCE, and about xenophobia, ignorance and arrogance. Also, can i say this TB, for the most part, has been glorious. informed, worthwhile discussion on all sides. marvellous thing to behold.

  • June 3, 2007, 9:53 p.m. CST

    THE KNIGHT HAS SPOKEN

    by THE KNIGHT

    Victory is inevitable!

  • June 3, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    screw this crap... go see Paprika!

    by Russman

    Paprika kicks ass

  • June 3, 2007, 10:01 p.m. CST

    mr sinister and all Eli haters

    by BrightEyes

    1. yes you are all envious, there would be no other reason for the hatred on someone haters could care less about. I am not a big fan of Michael Bay so I never waste any time going on a Mb Talkback and say how he sucks and how he is a hack, I really would not waste time talking in detail about how a filmmaker sucks because if I did what does that say about me, it would say I am a big fucking loser with so sad a life that I have to waste time saying how much I hate someone I dont care about. <br><br> 2. Go take a look at the imdb talkbacks check out how brilliant those people are, my mistake you're probably one of the Eli haters on that site. <br><br> 3. So because I am a fan of Eli Roth and his films that means that I want to masterbate to a picture of him and cum of the picture. Wow.You got me there buddy. <br><br> Dont like Hostel 2 , Dont watch it

  • June 3, 2007, 10:09 p.m. CST

    brighteyes = eli roth's mommy

    by CQuest

    your son is a egotisical hack mommy roth. fuck outta here. 98% of the talkback has SPOKEN. we dont like this guy, we dont like his movies, and we dont like how AICN shamelessly promotes him. maybe this is how u brought your son up, but we dont subscribe to this shit.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Will see the movie

    by Nairb The Movie

    but Eli loves himself.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah...

    by Nairb The Movie

    And I don't care about the torture porn, or sickness of the movies. Whatever. What does for me is its really not a good movie. Killing of the point of view character to make it seem like a risky tone shift in the film real kills the vicarious nature of everything. It was good till they killed the lead. Then it was bad, bad, bad.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:21 p.m. CST

    regular, what happened?

    by CQuest

    they banned u?

  • June 3, 2007, 10:23 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL!!!!!!!!!!!

    by lost.rules

    Saw some clips for the 2nd one. Including the clip where a girl bites a guy's nose off. Only one word can describe what I saw. CRAP. TOTAL CRAP.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:23 p.m. CST

    tank

    by tehgreekhammer

    thegreekhammer

  • June 3, 2007, 10:35 p.m. CST

    How about that stupid ass random crate at the end ...

    by Judge Briggs

    ... Hostel? How lucky for the dude in finding a random empty crate at a train station. Stupid.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Hahaha

    by BrightEyes

    Some of you people say how people who like Eli Roth films are sick and have problems. We just like to watch a film. I dont understand how you can say that when there are wierd people like gabriel whatever who doesnt seem mentally stable at all, who is so wraped up in hatred , honestly All it is is a horror film, dont like it, dont see it, you dont have to become boarderline psychotic in your hatred, I fear people like him and you other Eli Roth hardcore haters so much more than I fear someone who watch's a horror film.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:44 p.m. CST

    BrightEyes

    by lost.rules

    You do have Brighteyes, Eli. You're so dreamy.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:44 p.m. CST

    banning happening while bright eyes is posting

    by CQuest

    coincidence? I THINK NOT AICN has characters galore

  • June 3, 2007, 10:48 p.m. CST

    BrightEyes/Eli Roth

    by lost.rules

    Words of advice for you, sir. Stop making snuff films. You're films are explotative, not provocative. Your movies are for mental midgets and Jock douchebags. You can do better, Eli. You're more talented than Michael Bay. I'll give you that much credit.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:51 p.m. CST

    paranoia

    by BrightEyes

    I think so, I mostly only post in Lost talkback's and lostrules, Lost does rule, as does Eli Roth and his film's.

  • June 3, 2007, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Wassamatta "haters" scared HOSTEL2's going to cut into

    by TORTURE PWN

    your precious PIRATES b.o.?Plenty of worse filmmakers out there deserving your wrath.I hear that Michael Bay's got something or other coming out soon.Nah,you won't pick on him because without his movie to satisfy your nerdly needs you anal retentive pansies might actually be tempted to take your toys out of the package.You can't handle a horror movie.We get it already.You can stop wearing your vaginas on your sleeve now.My apologies to women for applying the term "vagina" to those who've never seen one except from the inside out once.

  • June 3, 2007, 11 p.m. CST

    TORTURE PWN

    by lost.rules

    Hostel 2 will debut #3 at B.O. Two other movies will dominate. Ocean's Thirteen, and Knocked Up. Your movie isn't goin to make good money this time, Eli. Accept it.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:01 p.m. CST

    The ironic thing is

    by BrightEyes

    the hater's Insane hatered for Eli Roth is far scarier than anything in a horror film. Guy's look in the mirror I promise what you see looking back at you is a hell of a lot worse than anything Roth is making.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:04 p.m. CST

    And now you can download

    by Nairb The Movie

    And now you can download Hostel 2 apparently.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:04 p.m. CST

    contemplation

    by JFilm101

    David Mamet's thoughts on what happens when story is no longer central to filmmaking: "The end of this is obscenity ... let's really see their genitals, lets really endanger the actor through stunts, lets really set the building on fire ... over the course of a movie it forces a filmmaker to get more and more bizarre ... over the course of a culture, it forces the culture to degenerate into depravity, which is what we have now." Hmmm, I wonder if he is referring to filmmakers like Roth?

  • June 3, 2007, 11:12 p.m. CST

    YOU PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP, THESE ARE GLORIOUS TIMES!!!

    by dcut75

    Being 32, I can remember the days before vcr's. We didn't have one until 86, and I think we were one of the first on the block. Before then, you went to the drive in. Movies like Make Them Die Slowly, I Spit on Your Grave, Zombie, Snuff, etc. were the stuff of legend. You read about it in Fangoria sometimes but you never really knew what it was about until you saw it. And when you did, Holy shit. This stuff would never, NEVER be seen in a theater! A woman impaled on a pole up through her ass! A woman getting her eye gouged out, slowly, on camera, with a big splinter! A dude getting his junk cut off by a vengeful rape victim? In Fango you would read how Evil Dead 2 or Friday the 13th 4 were being cut to shreds by the mpaa and we would bitch like crazy. (we being my brother, me and a couple of my buddies) The pictures of what was cut out of Evil Dead 2 would make you cry, and that shit is gone forever. But we live in a world now where you can see two couples tortured and murdered for over 40 minutes! Or a baby could have a gun shoved in it's face while it's mother is sexually assaulted, close ups of brain surgery with power tools, a girl getting her dangling eye snipped off of her cheek with scissors. There was shit in The Hills Have Eyes, Devils Rejects, Hostile and Saw 1-3 that left me winded and shaken, in a good way! It wasn't that I had never seen this kind of thing before, I grew up on the shit! It was that I had never seen this kind of thing in a major studio, big budget theatrical release. When we were kids, bad acting and poor special effects could make you squirm, now the dreck comming out direct to dvd won't cut it. The realism in these movies takes you back to being a kid, sneaking to the video store and watching Last House on the Left in your friends basement while his folks are at work. Love him or hate him, Eli Roth knows this. He's one of those kids, grown up and making his own movies. I'm not saying we should embrace crap(Texas Chainsaw remake and prequel, Turistas). But this backlash against "torture porn"(a moniker I hate) within the horror fan community is hypocritical and destructive to the genre. The Mpaa has relaxed beyond anything we could have imagined, especcialy if you grew up on 70's and early 80's hardcore horror. We live in a world where Day of the Dead could probably acheived an R rating. And that ain't bad. Movies like Alien and The Exorcist come along very rarely with, or without Hostile and the like out there. Sure I'm waiting for the next Shining just like anybody. In the meantime drown me in blended pig carcass baby, cause the mpaa says you can! Rejoice!

  • June 3, 2007, 11:17 p.m. CST

    dcut75

    by BrightEyes

    thank you

  • June 3, 2007, 11:23 p.m. CST

    dcut75...uh, no buddy...

    by Rebeck3

    I'm 43 and your memory is playing tricks on you old/young friend, the VCR hit the market wide in '80/'81. They cost about $1,000 at that time, but the prices took a dive and by '83 they were all over the damn place, as well as the stores providing the rentals. Your memory is fucked up. Nice try though.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:27 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah...

    by Rebeck3

    And I lost my virginity the year you were born. Just FYI.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:28 p.m. CST

    Wait...

    by Rebeck3

    Son?? Is that you?

  • June 3, 2007, 11:28 p.m. CST

    Rebeck3...

    by dcut75

    You may be right, I remember seeing Anthropaphagus (aka Grim Reaper) in 84 on vhs! Maybe it was a microwave in 86? Anyway, my point stands.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:29 p.m. CST

    point is

    by BrightEyes

    That classic horror films like Last House on the Left were doing hardcore horror that people considered "Sick and disgusting" way back in the 70's and if you guy's think Hostel is sick and disgusting You Dont Get It and you never will.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Once again, Dukedemondo is right.

    by veebeeyes

    Or maybe he's wrong. But at the very least, I tend to agree with him. This discussion has inspired me to watch the first Hostel again, and I can definitely agree on his points (haven't seen #2 though). While I've never thought of Hostel as "torture porn", I did think it was pretty fucking bad after having first seeing it. And after seeing it a second time, it fared better but I'm not sure if by a whole lot. But on a second viewing, I wholeheartedly agree that the audience is not supposed to "wank off" to it. It is NOT a pointless movie, and it does have some serious things to say about violence and xenophobia. Or maybe not. But I think it's pretty clear that Eli Roth tried, and I think that alone separates this from simple "torture porn". Whether or not it is a "bad" movie is debatable, but it's not "torture porn", and it's not gore for the sake of gore. Pesonally, upon watching it again, I found it to be a highly disturbing and depressing film, and scary in a way that most "monster movies" can never be. Sort of reminds me of the time one of my best friends revealed to me that he once stole one of his neighbor's puppies and stuck a firecracker up its ass. And my first reaction was just utter shock because I could not only believe someone would do that, I was horrified that I was ever friends with him. My second reaction was hatred and a desire to stick a firecracker up his ass, because he fucking deserved it. And that was honestly the scariest fucking thing of all, noticing that I was actually wishing that kind of torture on a living person. Hostel is a VERY humane film. It may not be very deep or well-made, but I think it's pretty damn clear that it does NOT in any way glorify any of the horrible acts depicted. At worst, it's simply a bad movie with good intentions.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:31 p.m. CST

    You lost your virginity at 11?

    by dcut75

    And your giving us shit for watching violent movies? Looks like we got us a Hippiecrit!

  • June 3, 2007, 11:34 p.m. CST

    All I know is

    by McClane_Corleone

    I saw Hostel with absolutely no expectation for it to be anything other than shit. From the previews I saw I thought it looked like a lame ripoff of Saw, and I hated Saw. But then when i finally did see Hostel I liked it a lot. I think it's too good of a movie to be called torture porn, but there definitly are torture porn movies out there masquerading as horror movies, and that sucks.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Hey Hey!

    by Rebeck3

    I was 12. (My birthday's in September) It was real "Wonder Years" type true-love shit. That's right - I fucked Winnie Cooper. Daniel Stern voiceover here.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:36 p.m. CST

    oh god

    by haitu

    yuck! hostel is horrible and so is it's father, eli roth. he's retarded. just wanted to cast my ballot for "worst director in the world" for eli roth. hope you are reading ever one of these post mr. roth

  • June 3, 2007, 11:41 p.m. CST

    kind of ironic

    by dcut75

    In a world where you can watch something as sterile as American Idol and only be one remote click from seeing footage of an American soldier's corpse being dragged through the streets of some foreign land, because of deliberate lies, Hostel is controversial!

  • June 3, 2007, 11:42 p.m. CST

    yeah

    by BrightEyes

    cause Im sure eli so desperatly wants to impress all you cool talkbackers, also whats with pwn dome?

  • June 3, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    You Lost Me Again

    by Rebeck3

    You think because I disapprove of crap like Hostel, that somehow that distracts me from this sick perversity of a war and the idiot chimp who got us in it? I don't get the connection. And the fact the soldiers LOVE Hostel makes me think the casualties from Iraq haven't even begun. (See: Taxi Driver)

  • June 3, 2007, 11:46 p.m. CST

    Ironically...

    by Rebeck3

    ALSO the same year your ass was born.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:49 p.m. CST

    leave the soilders out of

    by BrightEyes

    leave the soilders out of this, say what you will about Eli and hostel, but lets be just a bit tasteful

  • June 3, 2007, 11:51 p.m. CST

    That wasn't directed at you Rebeck3

    by dcut75

    My point was, there is shit in reality that people should be irate about. Instead of being in an uproar over this bullshit in Iraq, most people are burying their heads under American Idol, only to stand up and rally against a work of creative fiction. THAT is what is sad.

  • June 3, 2007, 11:54 p.m. CST

    Rebeck3...

    by dcut75

    Are you trying to discredit my point of view because I'm ONLY 32?

  • June 3, 2007, 11:56 p.m. CST

    I'm Just Going From What Roth Said

    by Rebeck3

    I don't blame the soldiers a bit. If I saw the horrors they're seeing on a daily basis, I'd be catatonic by now. I'm just saying... A lot of young men are coming back damaged and will be for years to come, just as they have after every war - the fact that this one was a war of choice made by a bunch of weasel draft-dodging chickenhawks makes the damage absolutely unforgivable.

  • June 4, 2007, midnight CST

    well there's one thing we

    by BrightEyes

    well there's one thing we can agree on.

  • June 4, 2007, midnight CST

    No, Just Joking dcut...

    by Rebeck3

    32 is a great age and I envy you, truth be told. Am I glad I grew up in the great movie era that was the 70's and not the craptacular 80's? Yes. But with Netflix, what difference does it make? I get your point about American Idol, but I just think it's a facile argument. People can hold two thoughts at the same time: they can despise this war and also hate what Hostel represents in the art of film (or lack thereof). And they can also vote for the latest disposable pop singer.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:01 a.m. CST

    But...

    by dcut75

    You implied that by watching and enjoying a movie like Hostel makes one already a bit unhinged. THAT is what is insulting, to fans of the movie, and to the soldiers in Iraq.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:07 a.m. CST

    I Just Honestly Believe...

    by Rebeck3

    Hostel represents a dangerous and unhealthy trend in entertainment. I'm hoping it will pass.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:11 a.m. CST

    Give Roth credit for one thing...

    by dcut75

    People are debating horror films once again. They're doing stories on the news about horror movies and all this ultra violence in films controversy! It may not be entirely his doing, but he is becoming the poster boy for it.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:17 a.m. CST

    rebeck, Question

    by BrightEyes

    you really think Hostel is as unhealthy and disturbing as some of these talkbackers, honestly just look at pwn dome(the fakeone) is that not more unhealthy, a guy like that on the web than a horror film made for people who love fangoria and horror films, people said the same thing about Romero's Dawn when it came out and many other horror films, all it is at the end of the day is a movie made to entertain.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:19 a.m. CST

    Yeah, Debating...

    by Rebeck3

    Which of the recent crop is the worst. (Quite a contest let me tell you and hard to call!) And reminiscing about the good old days of classic horror. When you make your list of Top 10 horror films, are there any from the last decade? Two decades??

  • June 4, 2007, 12:22 a.m. CST

    You're old enough to remember...

    by dcut75

    This is a cycle, it started with the films of H.G. Lewis. Again after Night of the Living Dead. The hardcore 70's drive in flicks brought it back again. The video Nasties era of the early 80's. American "splatterpunk". Now we've got "torture porn", and yes, it too will pass. But a little while down the road something else will come up. I do believe it's harmless. I also believe it's a reflection of the times we live in, and right now, things are pretty fucking bleak in the world. So go to the damn movies and get freaked the fuck out for an hour and a half. Me? I'm reliving my childhood with this stuff. and as for all that desensitization crap, I've been watching films like this since I saw Phantasm at the drive in when I was 4!! And when I see blood in reality I turn into a little snatch. No shit. I once saw a guy get his thumb cut off on a construction site and I almost went into shock! True story.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST

    BrightEyes

    by Rebeck3

    I'm all for great horror - and I'm not bothered by gore either. But I don't like this new trend of making "entertainment" out of the slow painful torturing of sobbing victims. That's not enjoyable to me. It's okay to do it in a drama where it is MEANT to be disturbing, and towards some purpose, but to make a Saturday Night popcorn movie that revels in that kind of sadism is just...not right. I do think it desensitizes people.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST

    People trust me. In ten years, we'll...

    by glodene

    be watching Snuff films on YouTube. Hostel is nothing more than a pre-curser to what's to come. Let the goodtimes roll.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST

    ELI ROTH CAUSED THE IRAQ WAR!

    by lost.rules

    We wouldn't have invaded if Bush hadn't seen Cabin Fever.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Roth wants Kate Hudson

    by Lane

    http://tinyurl.com/259b7x (IMDB News)

  • June 4, 2007, 12:29 a.m. CST

    HOSTEL:TEENS GET TORTURED!

    by lost.rules

    Next it will be children. Then it will be babies. Awww Yeah!

  • June 4, 2007, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Hostel would make my top ten

    by BrightEyes

    easily

  • June 4, 2007, 12:31 a.m. CST

    I can't wait to see the people of SLOVAKIA....

    by lost.rules

    kidnapping babies out of their craddles, and slowly torturing them to death. SWEET!

  • June 4, 2007, 12:32 a.m. CST

    Rebeck3...

    by dcut75

    People like you make these talkback things worth while. We disagree, I don't think I'll change your mind any more than you'll change mine, but you're not a moron. You, Brighteyes and me had an inteligent discussion amid a bunch of idiots calling each other names, but now I'm going to bed. After Friday I'll probably be on here somewhere talking about whether or not I liked the movie. Until then, Goodnight. Brighteyes, If you are Eli Roth, I can act!

  • June 4, 2007, 12:34 a.m. CST

    You can't buy the kind of publicity

    by TORTURE PWN

    that comes with people calling your horror movie "immoral"."repulsive", and basically equate it with the end of civilization.Keep up the good work "haters".Or should I call you PLANTS!Hell,it even sounds like Eli himself is telling you what to say!

  • June 4, 2007, 12:35 a.m. CST

    Brighteyes, If you are Eli Roth, I can act!

    by lost.rules

    Hostel would make my top ten by BrightEyes HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!! You idiots are hysterical!

  • June 4, 2007, 12:38 a.m. CST

    Goodday sir

    by BrightEyes

    I am just happy that this once childish talkback has had few people debate and discuss and not simply say Eli Roth sucks balls. It's refeshing to know there are a few people out there even the anti Hostel people can debate inteligently and back up their words. Also I am not Eli just a fan of filmmakers and aspiring to do the same.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:42 a.m. CST

    It's A Fine Line, I Admit...

    by Rebeck3

    The original TCM, SEVEN, AUDITION, WOLF CREEK, THE EXORCIST, DELIVERANCE, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN...all have high 'pain content', if you will... I can think of plenty of wince-inducing scenes in everything from FRENZY to THE SILENT PARTNER to MIDNIGHT EXPRESS to LOOKING FOR MR. GOODBAR (check out that ending) But in every case they serve a larger story and I can easily defend the violence/suffering. If it's the sole purpose of the movie and the main dish served up for thrills then yeah, it worries me. It's something you can feel in your gut. I hated CASINO for the same reason if it's any consolation. Scorsese, one of our great directors, can be a sick fuck. He got off on the violence in that film and that scene with Pesci and his brother being beaten to death is unbearable in the extreme and pointless and pornographic. Like I say, I just know Torture Porn when I see it.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:45 a.m. CST

    Some people having trouble understanding "Torture Porn"

    by Ninja_Master

    There are people asking how it can be "porn" since no one jerks off while watching it. Let me explain why porn is considered porn. Porn caters to a base animal desire. It's not about telling a story, or conveying an idea, it's simply meant to feed a basic craving. This is how torture porn relates to sexual porn; these movies (saw, hostel, etc) aren't about telling stories, or conveying a deep intelligent message (don't pretend they do), they are about feeding a base animal desire; hurting, torturing, seeing pain inflicted. That is a very real base desire that sadly much of the race shares. Hostel caters to it. People don't watch it to see a political message, they watch it to see people scream and moan in pain. It's not new, not even in our culture. It used to be called exploitation, now it's celebrated as mainstream entertainment. There are people here who see this change as "progressive". Looking back on the cultures that came to accept misery and suffering as entertainment, it's hard to see how it could be progression. I accept that this is the direction our culture is going. What I don't like hearing are smut peddlers like Roth talking as if he's making art, and generalizing those who dislike it as being too unintelligent to see the deeper meaning. You people can like it if you want, but it IS "torture porn". It feeds your desire to see pain and suffering and that's why you watch it.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:46 a.m. CST

    dcut75, BrightEyes

    by Rebeck3

    I appreciate it and I agree. Nice talking to you.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Lost rules wanna know what's even more

    by BrightEyes

    Hysterical......you my friend, For wasting time getting mad at people who actually enjoy his films, Im just gonna take a guess and say you like the show Lost, I think I've seen you in the talkbacks, anyways how annoying and pathetic are the people who come into the Lost talkbacks and say the writers are hacks and heroes is way better, and us Lost fans just feel pity for them for comming in the talkback and wasting time saying it sucks and they quit and will stop watching. <br><br> Guess what You sir are that asshole that us Lost fans all hate. You are an Other.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:53 a.m. CST

    BTW

    by Ninja_Master

    The people using the argument that a talk backers are worse than Roth's films; are you serious? That's your argument? Well I'm a pretty normal guy, and I see his films as encouraging what's worst in humanity. If you enjoy it, than just admit it; you enjoy seeing people hurt. Don't dance around the debate with "there are worse things". Everyone already knows there are crazy talk backers.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Cannabalism is neat

    by Wonko The Sane

    -W.T.S....

  • June 4, 2007, 1 a.m. CST

    Eli Roth Makes Us Hungry

    by Wonko The Sane

    But everybody agrees on sunshine and lollipops.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:02 a.m. CST

    Hey ninja master

    by BrightEyes

    What about imo the greatest horror film ever, Romeros dawn of the dead , People get hurt in that movie , People get hurt Real Bad, and I love that movie, And really for that matter 98 percent of horror films people get hurt,so is it just the whole horror catagory that is sick or?????

  • June 4, 2007, 1:16 a.m. CST

    REALITY CHECK

    by Wonko The Sane

    We are after all just talking about a bloody stupid movie...yes? Whatever happened to free will, eh?

  • June 4, 2007, 1:26 a.m. CST

    BrightEyes/Eli Roth

    by lost.rules

    I'm an asshole. You're the one who put Hostel on your top ten list. What would that be a list for? Piece of shit movies with no soul? No sir, You are an ASSHOLE!

  • June 4, 2007, 1:26 a.m. CST

    I want to hear...

    by Ninja_Master

    ...a Hostel/Saw/etc supporter admit they enjoy watching torture. I don't want to hear you talk about how Hostel's no different than other movies, because it damn well is. I don't want you to refer to others as "haters", because we have a reason to hate it, and we've expressed why. I want to hear a supporter explain why they enjoy watching people cut apart as they beg for their lives and moan in pain. You pay money for that. Roth films it with the intent that people will pay to watch it. So anyone just want to admit; hey, I just like seeing people in pain. I enjoy real horror, because I enjoy seeing people in scary situations. I watch it for the vicarious fear. I don't watch movies where people are tied to chairs and slowly cut in pieces, because what exactly am I supposed to enjoy feeling? Pretending to be dismembered? Or to pretending to do the dismembering? Sorry, I know it's a real desire, but imo that's something very very wrong. Something that should be suppressed, rather than encouraged. Of course, I don't make movies, I can't tell anyone what to do. But I would appreciate it if they were honest enough to admit why it is they enjoy them, rather than pretending to be intellectuals. Just admit you like seeing pain inflicted. In Ender's Game, there's a reference to Ender's evil brother torturing squirrels. I remember reading that, and it was sad, because you knew immediately that he had something seriously wrong with him. Why would anyone enjoy seeing a little creature writhe in pain? Now you pay 8 bucks and see a teenage girl cut apart while she cries and begs for her life. Eli Roth, you and your films make me sad and sick for our culture. I want to cry when I think where we are heading. Is that a knee jerk reaction from some dumb critic too stupid to understand your films? Na, the problem is we do understand the point of your films too well.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:38 a.m. CST

    Ninja guy

    by BrightEyes

    Why didnt you answer my question, Most all horror has scenes where people get ripped apart and hurt, And I would never watch real torture, I have never seen those videos or pictures on the internet of real stuff cause that is sick, But Hey guys this is a "Movie" it is "Fictional Characters" as Ben Affleck would say, It is not real, I go watch an Eli Roth film to get Scarred and jump and look away at the screen, Some of you guys sound like that uptight lady who told Tarantino that he was sick for making "Kill Bill" and she told him she wished some people beat him up, Tarantino than said , ahh but that is real violence jan your the sick one, I make movies. It makes absolutely no sense to attack Hostel for being violent but no other horror film in the history of horror, I would really like for you ninja dude to answer my question above, as for lost rules you have proven what you are.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:41 a.m. CST

    So, it's basically all about the final kill?

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    How FUCKING LAME is that?!?!?<p>Roth is a hack.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:42 a.m. CST

    Who says you gotta enjoy?

    by Wonko The Sane

    The answer's pretty simple so quit trying to ugly it up anymore than it already is. Its brutal, ugly and in my opinion not even worth the calories burnt typing this. So I won't see the second one. So you shouldn't make it into a social commentary. So the guy eventually will stop makin money on the damn thing. So it'll go away. Don' begruge a guy from trying to make a buck at the expense of a few warped sicko minds, and don't preach to a choir of bozos that don't have a common frame of reference and therefore no basis for a reasonable conversation. Fuck it.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:48 a.m. CST

    Ninja_Master

    by SebastianHaff

    I enjoy watching torture. Well, let's clarify. I enjoy watching the goods on display in what everyone is calling "torture porn." I do not enjoy Faces of Death, Traces of Death, or any of those videos floating around the net of actual deaths. Why? Because actual death, actual torture, disgusts the hell out of me. It disturbs me and I do not enjoy it. For a movie like Hostel to come along, for me, is a godsend, because I love horror films and I love going to the theater and actually being scared. Sadly, this never happens anymore. The shit that passes for horror these days is goddamn pathetic. Disturbia? What the fuck? Saw II? Please. But Hostel tricked me. I'm in my early 20's and have more in common with Paxton than I'd care to admit. I was really digging the frat boy humor. Then Eli pulled the fucking rug out from under me and, and by torturing those characters, he was torturing me. I admit I'm a pansy. But I was scared. It's a fucking horror movie. It SHOULD scare me! So, like I said many many sentences ago, I "enjoy" watching torture. Not because I get off on it, but because it frightens me, and I enjoy movies that are truly, deeply disturbing. For the record though, Saw II and III blow goats for quarters. They are MTV style shaky cam acts of mediocrity. Hostel, in my opinion, is for the big boys. Now go easy on me guys, I know I'm in the minority here. PS, In your defense, I also dig Dead Alive, Evil Dead, and all those nasty Italian flicks from the 70’s, and those truly are simple montages of depravity. So uh, maybe I am disturbed! Take it easy.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:50 a.m. CST

    Torture porn blinds viewers BECAUSE THAT'S ALL IT IS!!!

    by TallBoy66

    Don't tell me your fucking sadistic "lets kill some poor fucker for 40 minutes" (cause you have to pad it out) movie has some layered subtextual horseshit. I don't fucking buy it. Its watching somebody get whacked. In slow motion. That is the main draw of the film, that is the reason for the film. It is dwelled upon, and we are meant to watch it. It is pornography. About torture. Hence, Torture Porn. And it sucks. So fuck you.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:59 a.m. CST

    IT IS A MOVIE!!!!!!

    by BrightEyes

    MOST PEOPLE WHO WATCH IT DO NOT ENJOY REAL DEATH, THAT IS WHY THEY MAKE MOVIE'S SO PEOPLE CAN WATCH STORY'S AND KNOW WHEN IT IS OVER, IT'S OVER, is 300 Sick cause that was one of the goriest mainstream films that I have ever seen , UNLESS YOU HATE GORE AND BLOOD IN ALL FORMS OF ENTERTAINMENT THAN YOUR ARGUEMENTS ARE DEEPLY FLAWED

  • June 4, 2007, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Much ado about bullshit

    by Wonko The Sane

    We are talking about a movie, right? Like it or not its some cat lookin to buy a porcelin Jaguar. My girlfriend roped me into seeing the first one and I was nonplussed. It weren't Citizen Cane, folks, but I only looked at my watch twice. Seperate the movie from the psycho and the psycho will still find something to do. ITS A GODDAMN MOVIE. Take it down about ten. Rotate the intensity knob to the left. Jesus...

  • June 4, 2007, 2:09 a.m. CST

    I don't give a shit about the torture. IT'S SHIT!

    by lost.rules

    Bad writing. Bad acting. And NO PLOT! CRAP!CRAP!CRAP! In all forms and genres, CRAP IS CRAP! Hostel is shit. Cabin fever is less than shit. EXPLOTATION CINEMA! Or as Quint said, BLOOD, BOOB, AND TORTURE!

  • June 4, 2007, 2:12 a.m. CST

    It's like Eli Roth is making that movie Planet Terror..

    by lost.rules

    except, he's so stupid he actually takes the movie seriously. IDIOT!

  • June 4, 2007, 2:13 a.m. CST

    YEAH.

    by Wonko The Sane

    Fuckin' ay. Nuff said.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:14 a.m. CST

    Brighteyes

    by Ninja_Master

    Are you going to tell me that you don't understand the difference between Dawn of the Dead and Hostel? Are you seriously going to tell me that you can't figure it out? I am a huge fan of Zack Snyder's remake. There were people harmed in that movie. The difference is that the harm was not the point of the movie. There is an excitement and fear in the idea of hiding from monsters, that fear/excitement is independent from violence/gore. Look at the ultimate zombie movie; James Cameron's Aliens. The fear/tension is so high Roger Ebert said it felt like riding a roller coster. I first saw Aliens edited on TV, all of the violence had been removed, and the effect was the same. The violence/gore is simply a tool to accentuate the fear that Romero/Snyder/Cameron develop in their Zombie movies from real human terrors that go back as far as hiding under our blankets from the monster in the closet. Sex/nudity is the same, it is a tool to is used to add to the underlying horror movie. When sex/nudity is the entire movie, when the point is to feed the base human desire for sex rather than provide a frightening zombie movie, that's called "porn". When a director takes violence, and in the same way makes it the point of the movie; to feed a different base human craving rather than to make a frightening horror film, that is called torture porn. Hostel is not Dawn of the Dead because in Dawn of the Dead violence was a tool to help accentuate the movie, in Hostel violence is the film, and the story is a tool to hold the gore. You could take all of the violence/gore out of both movies, and what do you have left? Dawn of the Dead would still be an engaging experience, Hostel would be nothing. Look at Hickcock's film The Birds. The scene where the girl is pecked nearly to death, lets say that was 1:20 of the movie, and she was pecked into pieces while screaming and crying. How would those two movies even be related? One used violence as a tool, the other would use the violence as entire movie. Do you understand yet? Do you think the same audience would enjoy either film? I loved the Birds. It was eerie and a little scary. I would not enjoy seeing a girl torn apart piece by piece as the entire point. People enjoy being afraid while in safety. That's why people like roller costers and horror movies. Then there are people who enjoy seeing people harmed and tortured, that's something else. They are not the same. Can you not see that? Can you not see why it's disturbing to me that both are considered entertainment? I strongly suggest you widen your video library to contain some real horror movies if you still can't tell the difference between DotD and Hostel.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:18 a.m. CST

    Seriously...

    by Wonko The Sane

    Ooooookay.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:18 a.m. CST

    BrightEyes

    by Particularly Hard Vato

    Man, Seriously- don't breed. The main points brought up here are the following: 1. Eli Roth is a horrible film maker. 2. The movie caters to a sicko pervs who enjoy watching torture and gross depictions of human depravity. 3. Eli Roth tries to justify his movies making as "art." Telling people that they criticize Eli Roth because they are jealous or wish they had his girlfirends is awesomely stupid. You still have absolutely no credible arguments in favor of Eli Roth's film making other than "It's a movie so don't watch it if you don't like it blah blah blah." My main point is that it is not a movie- its a disgusting piece of trash that appeals to sicko perverts. My secondary point is that Eli Roth is only producing something that appeals to lowlifes and is not made my other film makers who have skill and talent. Anyone can put a camera in front of someone being tortured, shock people, build publicity, and sell tickets. The only thing you have to do to be sucessful at it is to be the first to push the standards of decency even lower. Your audience will be curious or sick- nothing more. That is what Eli has done with his films Hostel and Hostel 2- he has pushed the standard for decency lower for shock value. The amazing thing is that he justifies it as art, commentary on society, whatever, when it is nothing more than something he and his twisted fans can masturbate to. And don't give me this bull shit that he is a film maker and is not "into that stuff." He wouldn't make it if he wasn't. I wouldn't let him around my kids or family, and quite frankly, I wouldn't want you around them either. Of course, I doubt you get out of your parents' basement anyway. Good luck seeing the film, hope you feel good afterwards.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:20 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah you really made a strong arguement

    by BrightEyes

    Good job lost rules, really. that was good cause Hosel is just like Planet terror, what with the blood and what not, C'mon get real. By the Way I find Paris Hilton and lindsey lohen and all those drug addled party monsters so much more disturbing for the youth of the nation. If your worried about the youth getting messed up in the head fight a better fight and make your voice heard when it comes to all these celebrities that are poisening young girls minds and warping how they think, making them think it is okay to be an idiot and live life on the edge. I find that stuff so much more offensive than anything Eli Roth could ever put on screen

  • June 4, 2007, 2:22 a.m. CST

    Ninja_Master you are!

    by Particularly Hard Vato

    Yes! Yes! Furthermore, yes! I agree with everything you ar esaying! Very clear, very good points- thank you! I wish I could be as articulate- and I was scared shitless by aliens on tv!

  • June 4, 2007, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Who gives a fuck about Paris Hilton Bright Eyes???

    by Particularly Hard Vato

    We're talking about a shitty film maker who justifies his existence and his work like it is something more than sicko bullshit!

  • June 4, 2007, 2:27 a.m. CST

    Spaz- and Aliens Wasn't?

    by Particularly Hard Vato

    And Aliens wasn't a popular movie? Good arguments there man- brilliant.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:32 a.m. CST

    I GOTTA 56% ON MY MATH TEST!!!!!!!!!

    by lost.rules

    Wait, that's still an F.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:37 a.m. CST

    ninja and other dude

    by BrightEyes

    first Romero's Dawn was the one I was refering too, I dont even know how you got the remake in it, also Alien is not a zombie film , I mean it says it in the title, it is an alien film. maybe it comes down to different people because Hostel is one of the best RollarCoster rides in recent horror.and Jesus Christ the birds yeah its a great film but were talking about horror, even in phyco people get stabbed and killed. When you go see a horror film you should pretty much expect to see some violent stuff in there so I still cant see how you can argue that at all, if you took away every single bit of violence in Dawn of the Dead than it would'nt be Dawn of the Dead. There is a reason why George Romero put such graphic violence in Dawn and Day and it is becuase he knew what people wanted to see, he knew that without it, it would not be the same film, Romero was one of the most censored for all his violence and gore but your gonna ignore that and say his films were pure tasteful, You have no arguement. and the other guy you obiously have not read anything that I have wrote befor or else you would know I answered all those statements.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:42 a.m. CST

    ELI ROTH FUCKS CATS!!!!!!!!

    by lost.rules

    Him and Shia Lebeof. Sick bastards.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:46 a.m. CST

    ONCE AGAIN FOR THE HATERS

    by BrightEyes

    It's sad when people get off on talking trash on people they so call "Hate". Just like the losers on imdb who talk about how they would'nt watch an Eli Roth film if they were paid money, yet there post history is mostly on all things related to Eli Roth and his films. It's jealous filmschool dropout's who wish they had his life and made his film's and dated his girlfriend's but they are stuck on the computer talking about how much he sucks and how his film's are stupid and they wont watch them, similar to people who say they are done with Lost yet watch every week. Get over yourself's and if you hate Eli Roth than dont talk about him, it's just that simple. Eli Roth is a great horror writer/director. He's making hard "R" films when the studios are making pg-13 crap horror films. yes you are all envious, there would be no other reason for the hatred on someone haters could care less about. I am not a big fan of Michael Bay so I never waste any time going on a Mb Talkback and say how he sucks and how he is a hack, I really would not waste time talking in detail about how a filmmaker sucks because if I did what does that say about me, it would say I am a big fucking loser with so sad a life that I have to waste time saying how much I hate someone I dont care about.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:52 a.m. CST

    Eli Roth is a great horror writer/director.

    by lost.rules

    you are all envious...I am a big fucking loser with so sad a life that I have to waste time saying how much I hate someone I dont care about.... George Romero put such graphic violence in Dawn and Day and it is becuase he knew what people wanted to see, he knew that without it, it would not be the same film,...UNLESS YOU HATE GORE AND BLOOD IN ALL FORMS OF ENTERTAINMENT THAN YOUR ARGUEMENTS ARE DEEPLY FLAWED....Hostel would make my top ten by BrightEyes

  • June 4, 2007, 2:52 a.m. CST

    Tallboy66

    by veebeeyes

    And it woulkd somehow be okay if it was in fast motion? Is it somehow okay to "whack off" seeing a man with a famiuly getting murdered if you don't have to watch him beg for his life? Gore-wise, Hostel was NOT that bad. People are only getting upset because it made them uncomfortable, which it fucking well SHOULD considering the subject matter. That is, that's what some of the "haters" are "hating" about. The other half are just "hating" because the movie was bad which is, as I said, debatable. But very soon I will hopefully enjoy seeing people die at the hands of some nasty "robots in disguise", and don't you dare try to tell me that people go to that kind of movie for the plot. I watch that kind of crap for the stupid and mindless mayhem. As well do most of the rest of you and you damn well know it. Hostel wasn't that kind of movie though. Again, I can't speak about the second moviesince I haven't seen it.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:55 a.m. CST

    awww lostrules that was cute

    by BrightEyes

    tahnk you for taking time and cutting and pasting my words:)

  • June 4, 2007, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Hostel 2 is a piece of shit

    by bunkyboo

    go see a real movie.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:57 a.m. CST

    BrightEyes, You are so goddamn stupid it's unfucking...

    by lost.rules

    believeable. You don't know shit about movies. You don't know how to make movies, cause you're obviously Eli Roth. And if you aren't, and in film school, then God fucking help us because you are going to be the worst filmaker in history. Worse than Uwe Bowl. Yeah, that bad.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:58 a.m. CST

    56 % IS STILL ROTTEN, PERV...hah

    by Brians Life

    Dude, this movie is trash. The first Hostel was trash. Not so much trash as the word is usually used, bt still trash. Eli Roth doesn't make movies, he makes a couple of violent scenes. I enjoy decent violence as much as the next guy, but he doesn't even do that. Shock for the sake of shock is not talent. Argue otherwise...go for it. And apparently he fancies himself an actual director and seems to also be a bit of a douche. I just read Cell and it was typical Post-1990 Stephen King. Great fucking book until the end....so I'm not aching for the Cell movie, but with the type of countrol this douche (hey, it's HIS words that make him that) seems to get off on, I'm sure it will look like a Rage Against the Machine music video. Go ahead, please feel froggy.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:03 a.m. CST

    Wow lostrules

    by BrightEyes

    I am shocked to know you know so much about me, thats amazing really, actually no it's not cause you dont know a thing about me and if I were Eli I would be proud cause he is livng out his dreams making films for his fans, Oh man and I love how your telling me I will be worse than Uwe Boll(Im sure that proves your film knowledge), Thanks because I love adversity and your sure showing me who's boss Buddy!

  • June 4, 2007, 3:10 a.m. CST

    from most intelegent tb to FUCK HOSTAL

    by gride9000

    Stop repeating yourselves. It's porn, we agree. I loved wanting to see that duche bigalo in the first Hostal get toutured. He was such a prick, and by the end you feal bad for the guy. He's learned not to be such a pricky american. That is a stronger charactor arch for a horror movie. So violence or no violence, the movie does hold up scrutiny. Most horror films peoples growth is compleatly shallow. The film had a high production value. It was rated R and used that rating to the upmost advantage. If you don't like violence in films or in general, why would you give this film a second thought? Have any of you see "Catwoman" or "Ishtar" those are bad movies. Eli is guilty of two things, making unnecisarily violent films and BEING A LITE FOOTED CANDY ASSED PRETTY BOY.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:11 a.m. CST

    your sure showing me who's boss Buddy!

    by lost.rules

    Yeah I am! Take that Eli Roth! Enjoy "living the dream" of being a washed up Hollywood Hack Director in 5 years. Stupid Asshole!

  • June 4, 2007, 3:12 a.m. CST

    ELI IS A LITE FOOTED CANDY ASSED PRETTY BOY.

    by gride9000

    new subject line for everyone, this will get to him forsure.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:12 a.m. CST

    Oh, and one more thing Eli......

    by lost.rules

    STOP FUCKING CATS! Leave that shit to your boy, Shia Leboef.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:13 a.m. CST

    lost rules dont you like how all these fuckers are biti

    by gride9000

    sorry about those harsh words over onthe Tformers page, your comments here are right the fuck on.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:19 a.m. CST

    oh man Lost

    by BrightEyes

    i bet i just made your day, fuck it your week, how good you would feel to talk shit to Eli too bad for you I am not him, he has film opening this week do you really think he would spend this much time on a talk back argueing with you haters, I on the other hand dont start school till a week so tonight i got time to shut all haters down. Get Over It Eli Roth has it all and you people have nothing but a keyboard to talk shit on him, he could care less about you or me for that matter, He is making money and you can hate all you want, He is gonna be around for a long time

  • June 4, 2007, 3:19 a.m. CST

    dont bite my name style you bitches

    by gride9000

    GRIDE9000 is the original, any fools trying to but some 5000 or 3000 or even 2000 (not as popular since the millinium turned) behind their name is on my shitlist. I'll fucking get you. That means next time calling you a "shittube copycat lover of Desprete Housewives and Hater of Big Lebowski" instead of saying "first"

  • June 4, 2007, 3:20 a.m. CST

    I can understand Hype for Tformers. Even though it's

    by lost.rules

    directed by infamous Michael Bay, I understand why people want to see it. But this? Crap in the highest order. A Hollywood Snuff film. That's it. All is forgiven gride9000. WE MUST UNITE AGAINST HOSTEL!

  • June 4, 2007, 3:20 a.m. CST

    eli roth is a genius.........

    by cdp

    why else would u nerds be talking about him so much

  • June 4, 2007, 3:22 a.m. CST

    We must Unite to save the kingdom of talkback

    by BrightEyes

    Seriously haha cool. no Im serious

  • June 4, 2007, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Paris Hilton is a genius....

    by lost.rules

    Why else would people talk about her so much? Dumbfuck.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:26 a.m. CST

    Brighteyes

    by gride9000

    Is that a reference to the shittiest music in the world? Fuck that band or guy whatever. fuck Jack Johnson to. Or wait....is it what some nice boy or girl sayed to you one time. I bet it made your decade when they thought you had pretty eyes. Either way. Your arguments are shit and no one can stand your bandwith consutpion for this spew. Also, no one gives a fuck about your eyes on the goddam internet!!!!

  • June 4, 2007, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Jesus, you people sure be dumb.

    by Tourist

    The folks decrying the state of the world and Hostel as torture porn either just really don't like Eli Roth (can't blame them, he's annoying and not terribly good at his job) or display a hefty level of ignorance in regard to popular culture. It's niether all that violent, nor all that focused on gorenography. It's closest cinematic cousin, and one of which it is highly derivative would be American Werewolf In London, a long long way from the 70's/80's sicko trash like Last House On The Left or I Spit On Your Grave. It actually has a neat concept, and a pretty good story. The switching of the central character, the irony of exploiters being exploited etc. Nothing terribly new or amazing, but a hell of a long way from just loosely interlinked gore set pieces, like Nick Palumbos Murder Set Pieces or August Underground or segments of the Guinea Pig videos, all of which more accurately reflect the term torture porn. Jesus, I mean, at least in Hostel, you actually root (or are intended to) for the heroes. You want them to escape. The same can't be said of any of the 80's slashers, where the selling point was watching people die in strange and inventive ways and certainly unlike the Saw movies, the most recent the best example, which pretentiously glorifies and celebrates the vicious and cruel killing of a bunch of innocent people by an Hannibal lite.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:27 a.m. CST

    how good you would feel to talk shit to Eli

    by lost.rules

    Shit and THE TRUTH are two seperate things my friend. Do you think I like watching bad movies Eli? You obviously do cause you just keep making them.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:31 a.m. CST

    fuck it

    by BrightEyes

    I am Eli Roth give me a black box and ban the haters

  • June 4, 2007, 3:47 a.m. CST

    in closing

    by BrightEyes

    Im not eli roth and not ONE single person since I started posting on this board has made any valid points of why they hate Eli except for reb but I dont think his issue was even Roth more than Torture violence in general, good day to you all hope you can put your hatred to some better use, Ill be back some time. Eli Roth Lives On. HOSTEL2 THIS FRIDAY!

  • June 4, 2007, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Mob Mentality

    by playahatersball

    It's a shame many of you talkbackers can't seem to see the forrest for the trees when it comes to Hostel. Not liking the movie is fine, but the bullshit criticisms and hyperbole are a little tiresome. Too many to sort through and address individually- I had to skip to the end because it was so boring (aparantly, many of you had the same problem with Hostel). I defy any of you basement dwellers to make a better horror movie. According to many of you, Hostel lacked quality screenwriting, acting, directing and cinematogrophy. Fine, type up a scrrenplay, sell your action figure collection AND MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING MOVIE. You armchair directors think you have a clue as to what it takes to compose a quality work of film, let alone in a genre as difficult to create something of quality as horror can often be, but refuse to put your money where your mouth is. Do you honestly think you could make a better flick than Eli Roth, or would your apparent lack of imagination, low tolerence for graphic violence, indiffernece to the artist's morality and rediculously biggoted sense of aesthetic judgement (I don't like [director A], so therefore [director A] is a fag who likes cock! LOL!) help you to turn out something more along the lines of a Brian Yuzna DTV flick? You guys talk a big game, but I have yet to see your "far superior" horror film. I'm done with this joke of a talkback, so, feel free to flame away. I won't respond.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:12 a.m. CST

    Thank you Tourist

    by Vern

    I think you're the first talkbacker I've seen discussing "torture porn" who has mentioned Guinea Pig and other movies that actually do somewhat fit the term. Instead it is used by people who have never heard of those movies to describe more mainstream movies like Hostel and Hills Have Eyes Remake. If you think those are "torture porn" you either haven't seen them or haven't seen porn.<p> If somebody actually watched Hostel in order to get off on the torture they would be VERY disappointed, since it only happens in one short section 2/3 of the way into the movie. That's not what porn is, porn is all about fuckin, sometimes with a plot stringing it together but you don't put one short sex scene near the end and call it porn. That's called BROWN BUNNY. <p> And in Hostel you CLEARLY are not supposed to be rooting for the torturers. I would like to assign anyone claiming otherwise to read the book Men, Women and Chainsaws by Carol Clover. It gets pretentious at times and is too interested in Freudian bullshit about phalluses and what not, but it makes the most informed and accurate argument about who the audience roots for and empathizes with in the slasher movies of the '70s and '80s. And the argument is still applicable to these ones, whether or not the movies are as good.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:16 a.m. CST

    Tourist

    by TheBigDogg

    You make some good points, especially about the 80s slashers, but I'm not seeing AWiL's connection with Hostel (haven't seen 2). Hostel's reason for being was to show nasty sequences - as people have called them, the money shots. In that respect, I think they do share something with some of the 70s/80s trash. And yes, there are examples (like Guinea Pig) that more accurately reflect the term torture porn. Having something worse to compare it with, however, does not make Hostel something different. One of the huge differences and, in my opinion, one of the main reasons for the backlash on this talkback is that films like Cannibal Holocaust (godawful piece of crap in my opinion, but I acknowledge that as a point of view) at least didn't get in peoples faces. It receded into more underground territory. Pornography too stays a little removed from everyday life. Hostel and Roth, however, are pushing this shit in peoples faces and doing so while claiming to do the world a favour. That is why there's a problem here. It's not that the film exists. It's that it's being pushed as mainstream. That's a problem. Oh and Saw is slightly different because the sequels were riding on the back of the original, which was actually a half-decent mystery. It offered much more than torture money shots and, in fact, didn't even deliver in that respect.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:17 a.m. CST

    BrightEyes

    by Chilli815

    I've never watched Hostel, and never had a desire to, beyond a brief AICN chat about four-five months ago. The reason why is because of the reviews I read, the synopsis I read, the interviews I read. When I'm intrigued by a film rather than having a desire to see it, I go and read up on it. Reading up on Hostel didn't make me gag, or make me sick, what it made me was confused. Confused because its a film that has no story. There's no character arcs, no plot twists, no sense that you're being rewarded for seeing it. Instead its simply dumb people getting victimised brutally. Now you can read that as a social commentary, or see it as a great film, but for my money its as low as the crappy slasher films from the 80s. In fact, its lower. With them the nature was not on torture. It was on graphic kills certainly, but many of them had a story. Okay it was formulaic, but at the same time there was usually a reason behind events. Not always a good one, but the better ones managed to subvert the genre and throw up good scares. What scares does Hostel throw up? To me, torture isn't a scare, its just not something I want to look at. Feeling sick to your stomach isn't a good jump moment. The good jump moments come from seeing a character you care about in jeopardy, not through torture but through the fear that their death is going to be quick and painless. The fear there is that they won't be able to comprehend it, won't be able to articulate a way to avoid it. That's why so many slasher films (and indeed horror in general) deal with the supernatural, because it takes us away from the trappings of real life and force us to deal with events that we have no context for. Take Aliens for example, it works because it boils things down to the purest element, having nastier, stronger creatures who don't use technology and can get you at anytime hunting us down, rendering the majority of the weapons as insects and forcing us to act equally primal. THAT is how you do a social commentary. Torture is not a social commentary, its a way to ensure controversy and get people in the seats.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:19 a.m. CST

    SebatianHaff/Spazatronic/Brighteyes

    by Ninja_Master

    SEBATIANHAFF: Now that's a valid argument. If you genuinely found it frightening, then I can see your point. I thought it was a shitty movie. Though I do see your point. SPAZATRONIC2000: Where did I say The Birds was the influence for Hostel? Roth's movies make millions, so yeah, my opinion is shit. Brilliant. I'm going to respond to the post where you said "I enjoy torture" as if that was your only one; I appreciate the honesty. I can dislike it, but there's no point pretending that people don't enjoy it. It's easy to think about romans watching the coloseum games, and think we're vastly different. But they were humans too. I'd be curious to see what a typical roman would respond to a question about enjoying lion vs slaves. Would they admit "Hey, it's exciting and I like watching it", or would they respond with "Paris Hilton is a worse influence on children!" You'd probably get some of each. I'm not against violence. I enjoy hard R movies. Violence is a powerful tool to accentuate films. But I don't like seeing people cut up for the sake of it. I don't enjoy hearing a girl scream in pain. It disturbs me that lines have become so blurred that people can't tell the difference. "How could someone enjoy seeing Rambo kill communists, but not enjoy hearing a teenager beg for death as her face is blow torched?". When included in movies, violence makes the drama/horror all that much more powerful. When you're hiding from the monster, and your best friend just gets chewed up; "holy shit! We don't want that happening to us!" And when the Jack Nicholson shoots random people because he's paranoid; "Careful Leo! Not the man to fuck with!" But when the point is to see the a girl tortured just to hear her scream. Not to further any story, just to hear. her. scream. That's very different. No matter how many hours I played Doom2, I didn't want to hurt people. Hostel feeds the darkest parts of the human mind that enjoys causing suffering. It encourages us to take pleasure in the misery of others. This is something that actually affects society. BRIGHTEYES: First; Roth's shit is fine... because Paris Hilton is a bad example... that's a weak argument. Aliens follows the structure of a zombie movie, so do a lot of movies that don't have "zombies". There is much more to a horror film than the monster type. No, I don't care that you were only talking about the original, and you really don't know much about horror if you think gore is all that made DotD a classic. BTW - Everyone seems to agree (except for the few who just insult without any rational argument, or talk about us being jealous haters), which gives me some hope.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:29 a.m. CST

    Yeah, I don't get it

    by Chopper Sullivan

    The whole torture porn debate. I saw Hostel and enjoyed it to a certain extent, not because I love human suffering, but because when I go to see a horror film I expect to be disgusted and creeped out and occasionally disturbed. Hostel accomplished that much. And when it was done, I was able to realize it was just fake and a movie and move on with my life, still being able to react appropriately to real life tragedy. I can understand these films not being people's cup of tea, or people not liking Eli Roth, but there is a whole lot of silly overreacting going on.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:34 a.m. CST

    Great argument, Vern

    by Mr Gorilla

    'You guys who think Hostel is bad? Heh he heh, it's nothing compared to the f***cked up Guinea Pig stuff I have up my sleeve here.' Kind of like saying that Mussolini wasn't a fascist dictator, simply because Hitler was a much worse one.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:38 a.m. CST

    Right

    by Chilli815

    I think you're missing the point that people go to the movies for escapism. How is watching simulated torture escapism?

  • June 4, 2007, 5:36 a.m. CST

    More like "gore porn"

    by Darksider

    You also have to look at Roth's track record. Cabin Fever and that Thanksgiving Grindhouse trailer. Both are pretty much shock and gore with no real horror. I personally don't care for horror movies without actual horror. But some people just get off on gore. I sure hope Roth does not get Stephen King's Cell.

  • June 4, 2007, 5:42 a.m. CST

    The sad truth...

    by NachoNegro

    ...Is that a lot of people like this shit. They feel guilty about it, and they don't like to admit it, but there are an awful lot of people out there that really want to see someone being tortured. 50 years ago in the US South these people would have been lynching blacks, for nothing else other than their skin color. 60 years ago in Germany they were machine gunning Jews, standing naked and terrified in front of a grave they had dug themselves. 20 years ago they were breaking into homes in Sierra Leone, raping and murdering 10 year old girls while their horrified parents watched at gunpoint. They are the scum of society, and unfortunately they are in the majority. The only reason they are (reasonably) controlled in our western world is that a few enlightened people have created a social framework that suppresses their natural proclivities. Thus, they have to find an outlet for their tendencies. Like it or not, an awful lot of such people will be jacking off to scenes from these films, secretly hoping one day they get the chance to enact such things themselves. People like this are the reason why you tell your kids not to talk to strangers - you want the world to be a kind friendly place, but you know full well it isn't, because these people exist. And sycophantic interviews like this (with Capone sucking Roths ass so blatantly that any journalistic integrity is completely out of the window) that only serve to convince them that they are in the right.

  • June 4, 2007, 5:44 a.m. CST

    No, Vern porno is just about...

    by Darksider

    fuckin'. I also don't see the artistic value of the sex/nudity in Roth's films either.

  • June 4, 2007, 5:52 a.m. CST

    man

    by BadMrWonka

    if you type this:<p>"these guys are a bunch of fucking pussies that want to go see some faggy movies with their boyfriend and blow them in the theater" -Spazatronic 2000<p>how can you expect anyone to take you seriously if you make a feeble attempt at a coherent point later?<p>poor BrightEyes has trouble typing "soldiers" and "following" correctly...so how can I take his opinion seriously? what are they teaching kids these days?<p>TB'ers like Ninja Master and others that are able to articulately explain their position, and coherently cite examples, are a dying breed.<p> "dude your a fag!" and "Fuck Eli Roth!" are similarly useless arguments. personally, I think the discussion of intent is more important than the end product. people are tortured in Hostel. fine. we all know that. the question is what was the director intending, and what was the audience getting out of it? I'm sure there were people who got off on it. and I'm sure there were people that were truly disturbed by it. and that would be fine, if it were an art installation. but film is not a medium in the same regard as modern art. you must have a specific audience, and you have to have a somewhat cohesive story. you have to be SAYING something, not just showing the audience something, backing away and going, "alright, you guys make something of this". even movies that are very subjective, weird and confusing, (let's say Crash by Kronenburg for example) still have a story, and there is some authorial intent.<p> Roth may claim that in retrospect for Hostel, but it wasn't really there. it seemed like a student film where the student was saying, "fuck the textbooks, I'm gonna kill the main character, linger on this too long, cut this too short, etc.) and as is almost universally the case with those types of student projects, all it does is reinforce the old adage, "you have to understand the rules before you break them"<p>if you look at the posters and promotional material for Hostel, it was all about the torture and how obscene and disgusting it was. "he he he look what we're getting away with showing you!" as Vern pointed out, maybe the torture doesn't take up much screen time, but it was THE DRAW of the movie. Roth knew it, the studio knew it, the fans knew it. <p>Hostel (and I'm sure the sequel as well) are not horrendous, immoral pieces of the ethical puzzle that is contributing to the degradation of american culture. they're simply pieces of bad art. art is not supposed to be cathartic, it's supposed to be good. it's supposed to advance us somehow. Hostel is just a little piece of food stuck in your teeth that you can't get out. it's annoying and bothersome, but it will eventually go away. meanwhile, enjoy the rest of your steak.

  • June 4, 2007, 5:57 a.m. CST

    And another thing...

    by NachoNegro

    What kind of sick f*ck would want to see a naked terrified girl screaming and pleading for her life, while she is hung upside down over a bath, and continuously cut while someone else bathes in her blood??? I mean seriously, what kind of twisted animal would want to see this onscreen?? There's no justification for this, and you know it. Bad things happen, I grant you. And we are talking about a horror film, fine - it's meant to scare you. But this isn't about scaring us, is it?

  • June 4, 2007, 6:01 a.m. CST

    Have you people even seen Hostel?

    by samuel1

    Because I don't think you did. I didn't like at all, but to treat it as it was some sort of depraved point of no return for the genre is quite frankly laughable. And this whole "let's get Roth because - GASP!! - there are torture scenes in his movies!!!" is actually even more retarded, and ignorant not only of the history of horror movies, but of history of cinema itself. Hope you all guys get to see a Ken Russell's masterpiece called The Devils. It might be too much for you, but at least it will give you some fucking perspective. And while I hated Hostel (but not because it was too violent - give me a break - or it crossed some alleged line of morality in representing violence), Thanksgiving was a little gem. People who don't like it, have the sense of humour of a rock.

  • June 4, 2007, 6:14 a.m. CST

    Ninja Master

    by samuel1

    If you actually think that Hostel made you root for the bad guys-torturers, you are full of shit. Or one of the least sophisticated movie goer I ever came across. How do you feel about 24? Because there you have torture used by the good guys (who work for the government), on the bad guys, to stop some unspeakable plan against America and Americans. The torture works, yuo're actually, unlike in Hostel, brought to cheer for the torturer, because, he's doing it for the American Way after all, and the evil plan gets stopped. If you want to talk about "torture in entertainment/pop culture/art", I think that's way more disturbing, than any slasher movie ever made, not only by Roth. On the other hand, I wouldn't dream of starting a Net campaign against Joel Surnow, because, hey, what the fuck, freedom of expression applies also to things and ideas I don't agree with, or I don't like. Which is also a concept that seem to escape you. And, yes, do take a look at the book Vern recommended. Maybe you will learn something.

  • June 4, 2007, 6:42 a.m. CST

    Spazatronic 2000

    by NachoNegro

    Firstly, thanks. I think it's important to be articulate. It's just one of the many things that seperate us from the animal kingdom. Secondly, let me see if I can sum up your argument... - oh wait, you don't have one do you? Because you don't think you need one. You enjoyed it, and that's that, right? So let me ask you - what did you enjoy about it? The tight, coherent plotting? The artistic, masterful direction? The underlying thematic tones?? Or maybe, did you enjoy seeing some tits and a few people being tortured? Ah no, wait. I supposed you appreciate the deep social commentary right? So I guess The eyeball scene was absolutely necessary, right? I mean, there was no way to get across Roth's message without showing that, was there? I wonder what Hitchcock would have done with this premise - after all, the premise itself has some validity. But I'll tell you one thing for damn 100% sure - he wouldn't have had severed c0cks & naked girls being flayed alive whilst screaming in pain. Why not? Because he didn't have to show it to achieve the impact, that's why. Roth, on the other hand, does - because he has the directorial skill of a cowpat. These films are sold on the basis of their 'gore' - of the horrific nature of their torture scenes, and people who go to watch them don't go to see tightly plotted horror - they go to see realistic depictions of horrific deaths with some nudity. And by the way, yes, I truly believe that if you enjoy watching this sh1t, you are twisted. If you heard of someone who jacked off to scenes of a woman being gang-raped, what would you think? Is that OK? I mean, they aren't PARTICIPATING, right? What about people who jack off to kids? Is that OK? I guess you'd say no, right? So what's the difference?? I guess it's because it's not real in Hostel. So is it OK to provide realistic (yet dramatized) depictions of a 3 year old child being raped in a movie? If you say no, you're a hypocrite, and you know it. If you say yes, you're a sick piece of sh1t. Think before answering.

  • June 4, 2007, 6:49 a.m. CST

    samuel1

    by Chilli815

    Bullshit - in 24 they show the hypocricy of torture, especially in S6 when Jack realises what he's done through his own horrific torture. In S6 its a key plot point that he's become a dark figure, not someone to emulate at all. That shows complexity, and it doesn't shy away from how bad torture is as a means of ascertaining information.

  • June 4, 2007, 6:52 a.m. CST

    Men, Women and Chainsaws

    by SuckLeTrou

    ..is a good primer for someone who has never considered the topic before, and I liked the love for ISOYG, but it irritated th hell out of me, because Clover acts like she just personally discovered that men are capable of identifying with women on the screen without ever acknowledging (or reaching back into film history,) to films by Hitchcock and many others (the fact that directors have always known this,); she doesn't even discuss or go back as far as Psycho, which is unarguably the textbook-film on how to alter audience identification. I thought Cabin Fever and Hostel both sucked, and Eli sounds like a douche in this interview, ("They think Roger Bart is gay, It's hilarious!" What are you, 12?) but after viewing the insane reactions from some in this TB, I may have to reconsider my opinion. He has clearly struck a nerve among a certain segment of the viewing public. (That would be the portion that apparently has never seen a film before, seeing as I can think of 20 films more offensive than Hostel just by looking over at my dvd shelf.) Good on Samuel1 for bringing up The Devils. I wish Harry would get back on WB's ass about the DVD release.

  • June 4, 2007, 6:59 a.m. CST

    SuckLeTrou

    by Chilli815

    Yes, there are films worse than Hostel, but should that excuse what it is and what it represents?

  • June 4, 2007, 7:08 a.m. CST

    Chilli815

    by SuckLeTrou

    My answer is, I don't really care. Art is like that. Did Jose Serrano need a reason to put a crucifix in a vat of urine and photograph it? People were outraged, but the joke is, Serrano never even intended for it to upset people, he just liked the way the light looked. Art doesn't need an excuse, especially film, because film is a collective reflection of society--because people in our society made the film. So by that simple reasoning alone it has value. And no, that doesn't mean that any pervert taking a video of a child being raped is an artist; society and it's laws and the concept of "context" all place limits on these things that we more or less accept. I think you are all having a hissy-fit over nothing.

  • June 4, 2007, 7:22 a.m. CST

    i don't get the hate this guy inspires at all

    by slappy jones

    at least he is trying to make hard R horror films .and not p[andering making some watered down pg13 rubbish.the hate for him is so over the top it is quite obviously not his films or his work...it comes across as jealousy. its rather pathetic. if you thinkhe is the worst film maker around you clearly have not seen enough films....if hostel is the worst film you have ever seen then i am assuming you have only seen 2 films in your life and the other one was raiders of the lost ark.......

  • June 4, 2007, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Did somebody say 'torture porn?'

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I wasn't in all weekend, so I wasn't aware there was a party!

  • June 4, 2007, 7:24 a.m. CST

    Stephen King prefers the mick garris version of Shining

    by JackRabbitSlim

    Which says more for Mr Kings lack of discernible taste concerning movies. For those who havent seen Garris' film, there are, and im estimating here, no less than a half dozen scenes of chairs falling over, clocks stopping, etc as examples of "terror". Or "boredom" as most audience members might refer to it as. Oh yes - and i love this suggestion that somehow Hitchcock refrained from depicting graphic violence for a prime reason other than the Hayes Code. Ever seen Frenzy? NAKED TITTIES - the Eli Roth cheap hucksterism was utilized by the chubby master himself. Please - dont suggest that being morally devoid and having lack of cinematic talent go hand in hand. Sam Peckinpah was a maestro of the camera and bathed in buckets of blood in Wild Bunch and his rape scene in Straw Dogs was far more disturbing (to me) than anything in Hostel- the implied suggestion that the raping of Hoffman's wife somehow made her more sexually uninhibited was reprehensible. Did we ever see the victims in Hostel ever capitulate to their torturers whim, start saying they deserved to be tortured, were finding an epiphany in their agony and thank their kindly butcher? Um no. Every time I think the John Grisham "Natural Born Killers is evil - it needs to be burned" arguement is buried, it pops up again. Its a fuckin hydra.

  • June 4, 2007, 7:31 a.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by Votadini1983

    Have to say I agree totally with Ninja_master. I think thats why people react so strongly against these films. Its the gore that makes them shocking, not the atmosphere, not the directing, not the acting just wondering what the next money shot is gonna be. Kinda like porn, only with torture hmmmmm...

  • June 4, 2007, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Jose Serrano

    by Chilli815

    If the guy did that and didn't expect outrage, then I think he had a very high estimation of the reaction from organised religion. I'm not even saying it was wrong, just that not expecting that reaction wasn't his most shining moment.

  • June 4, 2007, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Hostile to Hostel

    by VoxMillennium

    I think Hostel should be placed in the same catagory as the Japanese "guinea pig" movies, where violence and gore become the goal of the movie, not as a means to heighten the athmosphere of horror or fear. There is no story worth mentioning, no characterization. To debase human beings to depersonalized objects of sadistic phantasies frankly to me is an inexcusable act of dehumanization. Whether atrocities in the 'real' world take place that might be even worse, is no legitimization of said act as the movie does not place its depiction of torture in any context that could be perceived as pointing at existing social and / or political realities. Even if we compare it to one of the most disturbing movies ever made, Pasolini's "Salo", at least there it obviously had a function as a political analogy of the political and social debasement under fascism. Hostel lacks any context whatsoever and I defenitely do not get the impressing part II aims to do better in that respect. The fact that the claim is made that Americans serving in Iraq get a kick out of it, does not mean the movies is therefore legitimized; it's rather a very disturbing indication of the psychological make-up of those soldiers that get off on it. Ken Russell's movies, while indeed often disturbing, always have a socio-political (be it in the present or in the past) context and to compare his movies with "Hostel" shows either total ignorance or unwillingness to differentiate art from sensationalist garbage. I'm against censorship of any kind but will indeed not offer any support in any form for part II; the rest as always is up to the audience.

  • June 4, 2007, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Chilli

    by SuckLeTrou

    Jose Serrano was not even famous when he made that photograph, outside of certain circles. He had no expectation that outraged Christians would ever even see it, much less be upset, and no reason to assume they would see it. Thousands of people make anti-religious art. Most of it is as juvenile as Serrano's photograph. It only makes the paper when someone decides to be upset over an NEA grant or a showing in a publicly-funded museum. How many teenagers carve upside-down crucifixes into their desks at school? Does it make the front page of the NYT every time? Of course not. Scandal is a collusion of being in the right place at the right time, or the wrong place at the right time, depending on your point of view. People here have decided to be upset at Hostel, so there is lots of screeching. Did people have the exact same conversation 40 years ago when Michael Findlay made Snuff? Yes. Did they have the same conversation when impressionists started painting things funny colors? Yes. When Urk the caveman drew an extra leg on his buffalo on the cave wall? Yes. The value of art can be measured in many ways. History has shown that when something makes people very upset, it gets remembered and eventually cannonized. If you would like to give that honor to a second-rate movie like Hostel, then keep screaming.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:06 a.m. CST

    RE: Slappy Jones

    by VoxMillennium

    The fact that you are so desensitized that you consider the ultimate movie to be the one that most extreme debases human beings to humps of meat to be disposed off in the most gruesome way imaginable (and I bet you imagined quite a bit), says maybe more about you than those speaking out against this lowest denominator level of human experience. It's not about whether one would consider this the "worst" movie or whether there is crap out there that's even worse; it's more a question of what you consider to be "entertainment" and maybe some people simply think that drilling holes in a person's body or burning a woman's eye socket as in Hostel is not as much cool or fun but rather testimoney of a rather disturbed mind. The reason why some people react so strongly, if I think about my own motivation, is not so much jealousy as the realization that the support in any way for a director that has the goal of making the torture of a human beings as realistic and sick as possible, is maybe not a great idea and maybe people should think about why they'd care to see such a movie. Have you already answered that question yourself?

  • June 4, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Russell

    by SuckLeTrou

    "unwillingness to differentiate art from sensationalist garbage."...The point of bringing up The Devils was not to compare it's worth to Hostel in order to excuse Hostel, but to show how pointless it is to be upset at such a trivial piece of crap in comparison to something so great. As you said, if it upsets you, don't support the film with your money. That's pretty much the only vote that counts these days.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:17 a.m. CST

    Hostel II = GARBAGE

    by hatespeech

    Horrible depraved shit from the mind of a sicko. Seriously, this is some fucked up shit, the kind of shit someone like Eli Roth should be locked up for, not rewarded and admired, the fucker needs help.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Oh and at the end she cuts off his dick and balls

    by hatespeech

    there, you know the end. You get to see it all too, a blood wiener. Happy now all your TORTURE PORN fans?! SICK SHIT!@

  • June 4, 2007, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Vox - How are these criticisms of Hostel different

    by JackRabbitSlim

    from any other horror movie? Are we suggesting that violence ISNT the primary goal in, say, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween or any of the other "classic" horror movies? Do you truly believe the average film watcher is appreciating Tobe Hoopers amateurish-at-best camera work, the hideously non-professional acting? What character development is there of Leatherface in the original TCM, a faceless thug who lurches about butchering teenagers? And its funny that in the mention of even slightly justifying Salo you make NO mention of the fact the victims of the Baron are underaged children whose nonemotional response is an almost docile acceptance of the torture they receive, a far cry from the rather assholish twenty-something tourist victims of Hostel. Those facts alone make Salo, in my cheap opinion, far more depraved and morally bankrupt than anything depicted in Hostel, whose victims are least given the dignity of attempting to defend themselves. And this allegorical context smacks of wonkery at its worst - are ywe saying that if the director of Chopping Mall 3 - Carnage Candy showed you without a shadow of a doubt, that there was a mirroring in themes between the bigtitted blonde getting splattered on Aisle three and the 1998 atrocities that occurred in Sierra-Leone it would make you reassess the film? That if Pasolini himself came out and said "You know that Fascist shit - it was a laugh - i just like showing abused children" it would suddenly make you think the film was terrible? Does your opinion of Blade Runner change when Ridley Scott says "Hey idiots - its my movie - Deckard is a replicant"? Is that what we are now reduced to - judging entertainment - and let me say that again - ENTERTAINMENT value based on what the creators possible motives are? In the immortal words of Oliver Stone - Fuck all that.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Jesus is a jar of piss

    by hatespeech

    >>Did Jose Serrano need a reason to put a crucifix in a vat of urine and photograph it? People were outraged, but the joke is, Serrano never even intended for it to upset people, he just liked the way the light looked.<< Then why didn't he stick a hot dog in there, or a spoon, or a fucking pencil. He purposely chose Christ, for the same hateful reasons other people choose to defile our savior. Bullshit he didn't do it on purpose, that's just plain bullfuckingshit.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:34 a.m. CST

    TCM vs Eli Roth Dementia

    by hatespeech

    TCM was based on a true story, it had elements of fiction, but Hostel and Hostel II are pure fiction thought up in the mind of one sick fuck. To compare the two isn't fair.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:38 a.m. CST

    Isn't it Strange....

    by redfist

    most of the ppl that come to this site are the taget age group that would go to see Hostel 2 and for the most part, every1 is against it. Iam sure however that most of you will go and see it anyhow, bitch to your friends about how sick and fooked up it is and that American Cinema is on the road to hell. But Roth will laugh all the way to the bank. I personally have a DVD copy of Hostel and have only watched it one. Not because I was grossed out...but it was just a sorry ass movie. I didnt get to see it while it was in the theaters, since I am in living in Germany. I have always supported gory flicks but this series is just a little too much for me to sign on for in support. And we all know that violence is a fact of life, but real violence is not cute, or cheeky or deserved..it is naked and ugly and unforgiving.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:41 a.m. CST

    And on Roth v Pasolini

    by JackRabbitSlim

    At least Roth isnt in real life fucking underagers. Pasolini got his just deserts from the 17 year old hustler he was bonking on the side.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:46 a.m. CST

    Wow... the Roth hate is strong in here!

    by turketron

    Woah, never expected this to happen. I liked Cabin Fever, but I haven't gotten around to watching Hostel yet even though I've got a copy laying around somewhere. It can't be any worse than PG-13 shitfests like The Grudge or The Messengers, etc. can it?

  • June 4, 2007, 8:50 a.m. CST

    TCM had "elements of fiction" LOL

    by JackRabbitSlim

    Well, lets see. Texas. Chainsaw. Massacre. Texas - the real killer lived in Wisconsin, TCM was set in Texas. Chainsaw - Leatherface chopped people up with a chainsaw. Gein killed no one with a chainsaw. Massacre - implying multiple people being killed at the same time. Geins victims were killed over a span of years. TCMS victims were attractive teenagers who stumbled on the farm. Geins victims were older women whom he seduced by various means out to his farm. Leatherface lived with his cannibalistic family. Gein lived alone with no evidence whatsoever that anybody else in his family had cannibalistic traits. Seriously - "elements of fiction" my ass. TCM was as close to the reality as "Psycho" was - which equates to pretty fucking far from it. And for that matter - since when has it become a crime on this site to have a warped sense of imagination? Thoughtpolice in full force tonight.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:51 a.m. CST

    AICN

    by NachoNegro

    All of this, admittedly worthy, debate, is serving to conceal something very important... The distasteful sycophany shown by this site towards film-makers who, even being objective, have very little talent. 3 stories about Hostel 2 on the front page, and another one on the way? What this tells us is simple - give AICN a set visit and some interviews, and they'll tell everyone you're the greatest director in history, and give you a great review. This site has long since lost any and all credibility. Capone, I'm sorry, but you've spent an hour fellating a fourth rate hack who should never have got out of filmschool. Whatever we have to say about the completely gratuitous violence, the fact remains that, at present, this site is becoming a whore for the highest bidder.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Crucifix Piss

    by NachoNegro

    >>Did Jose Serrano need a reason to put a crucifix in a vat of urine and photograph it? People were outraged, but the joke is, Serrano never even intended for it to upset people, he just liked the way the light looked<< Give me a break. He knew very well what he was doing. Liked the way the light looked??? Piss off. Go and get some yellow water then. He set out to offend, and he achieved it in spades. I defend his right to free speech etc, but don't be retarded - he absolutely intended to offend. If you think otherwise, you're a bit "special".

  • June 4, 2007, 9:01 a.m. CST

    Stupid talkback

    by NachoNegro

    Cut off the rest of my post. I was attempting to say, in response to that quote, that Serano set out to offend. If he wanted the 'right light', just go and get some yellow water. He absolutely intended for people to be shocked, and he got his wish. If you think otherwise, you must be a bit "special".

  • June 4, 2007, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Becoming a whore?

    by JackRabbitSlim

    I love this site but it has been corrupt for a decade or more (Armageddon review - the past reference to screeners as "pwesents" or "cookies" - the "unbiased" review of Drews screenplay - the dubious connections to that convicted felon Joe Hallenbeck etc )

  • June 4, 2007, 9:06 a.m. CST

    RE: Jack Rabbit Slim

    by VoxMillennium

    Concerning other horror movies, I see your point and I did not say that Hostel is the only movie that shows violence for violence's sake. To me the Texas Chainsaw Massacre indeed falls under the same catagory. Halloween I treasure and I don't think the movie is about how to make the most violent movie possible; to me it's a study of fear. I will admit though that to some degree it's a personal line that you draw and that prompts you to say that one movie is over the line while another is not; Hostel to me crosses it. Pasolini's movie is a most difficult movie to watch and I do not wish to ever see it again, but the reference to fascism is quite obvious (it's set in that period and not De Sade's time). The fact that they abuse adults and children alike is definitely referring to fascism that indeed showed no restrain in the sacrificing of both young and old. The almost nonemotional acceptance of their gruesome faith is not accidental: the victims were the powerless agraric population that had no say in their fate. Refusal to comply would mean instant death so most people choose to comply with at least a chance for survival. This has often been a question to both collaborators as well as victims of the fascist regimes: why did people so slavishly comply, why didn't they resist? The answer to this question is not so easy as it might seem on the surface; I'd suggest reading testimonies of holocaust survivors as well as nazi collaborators. The depiction of this is indeed depraved and shows a world that's morally bankrupt, but to therefor say that Pasolini's goal was "let's make the most disgusting movie ever". As a matter of fact I'm sure it wasn't. Pasolini was a very serious film maker, who in most of his movies attacked the aristocracy and church in his country for being morally corrupt and decadent, where the occurance of a socio-political cancerous growth like fascism was no coincidence. Does the movie trouble me; sure as hell does and having tried to defend it, I have no wish to ever see it again, but I do think Pasolini had good intentions with it. My opinion of a movie does not depend on what anyone says or claims, but simply what my own experience of it is; that's all it obviously can ever be. I'm a big horror fan and have enough of a dark side in me to enjoy the exploitation of fear in a movie, but to excuse everything on the basis of calling it "entertainment" I find a bit too easy and apologetic. So in response to your question what we are reduced to, I'd like to retort with the question are we reduced to accepting any form and level of violence labelled under the banner of "Entertainment"? Like I said, I'm always against any form of censorship but I do seriously wonder what makes people tick that get a kick out of torture scenes from movies like 'Hostel'?

  • June 4, 2007, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Wow...this is still going...and articulate!

    by Bones

    A few points. It isn't Alex or Jose Serrano--it's Andreas.<p> It is interesting to see people actually admit that they enjoy watching people get fake-tortured.<p> A lot of the people responding to this seem to be sexist, racist, homophobic bigots--which, like violence in movies, is seemingly more acceptable these days (but not discussed).<p> The appeal of these films, as I understand it now, is to provide a sense of relief that the events happening on screen are not happening to the viewer--and that the thrill-ride "rush" is addictive and harder to come by, the more of these movies that you see. Therefore, the simulated violence, the absurd situations and what they actually show on screen have to be more visceral, graphic and intense in order to produce a "squirm-factor".<p> It also seems that a large percentage of people like these movies without trying to understand WHY they like them...possibly because they are afraid of what liking the films says about their personality.<p> Somebody mentioned knowing someone who tortured animals--that is usually the first step in becoming a serial killer. The same disassociation, the ability to make a victim "less than human" is what allows this behavior. The mindset of "Well, they are not like me, they are not a real person--I can do whatever I want to them--I am more powerful and better than them" has fueled violence, rape, hate crimes and genocide for all of human history.<p> Now, having said that, do I want to tell people what to watch? No. Absolutely not--but it would be nice if people would think more about what drives them, and ask "why" once in a while. If we were a little more deliberate in our choices, there might be higher-quality movies.<p> Do I hate Eli Roth? Not at all. I don't know the man. I won't be seeing this movie, though--not my cup of tea.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:11 a.m. CST

    IT"S A BAD MOVIE!!!!!! All Eli's movie are bad.

    by lost.rules

    What was the point of that sex scene at the end of Cabin Fever? Explotation. What was the point of that girl's eyeball popping in Hostile? Explotation. What will be the point of a guy's dick getting cut off in Hostile 2? Explotation. All that shit aside....They're still bad movies, with characters you could give a fuck about. That's why there is so much hate. Not because it's Torture Porn.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:16 a.m. CST

    Blue Velvet

    by lost.rules

    There's my example of a film that's explotative, and is still a great movie. There's alot of sick, twisted shit in that movie that David Lynch could have cut out. But he's telling such a good story that you don't mind the harsh stuff. Plus his ideas of violence seem more like disturbing art than any crap that Eli Roth has made so far. Blue Velvet=Art Hostel=dog shit

  • June 4, 2007, 9:20 a.m. CST

    Cabin Fever and Hostel were pure ASS.

    by LaneMyersClassic

    The Thanksgiving trailer was good though. Maybe Roth should do sleazy teenage comedies like Porky's or Losin' It. That seems to fit him better> Although he would probably fuck that up, too. Maybe he should just do trailers.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Roth was really...

    by TheHorror

    Making a statement about the military moving into Iraq by chopping off a man's penis, how we as the people felt emasculated by not having a say in our countries decisions - or so he'll hve you believe! Fuck this horrible excuse for a flm.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Roth was really...

    by TheHorror

    Making a statement about the military moving into Iraq by chopping off a man's penis, how we as the people felt emasculated by not having a say in our countries decisions - or so he'll hve you believe! Fuck this horrible excuse for a flm.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Roth was really...

    by TheHorror

    Making a statement about the military moving into Iraq by chopping off a man's penis, how we as the people felt emasculated by not having a say in our countries decisions - or so he'll hve you believe! Fuck this horrible excuse for a flm.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Disassociation

    by NachoNegro

    This is one of the most important reasons why films get banned - not because of violence, or sex, or nudity. But because they encourage disassociation, or implicitly endorse horrific acts. Someone above mentioned Straw Dogs. The reason that film was banned was that Susan George, whilst being raped, clearly enjoyed what was happening to her. You can read into this a lot of things. I tend to think it's quite simple - Sam Peckinpah was a mysoginist (fact), and this, to some extent, resonated with his beliefs - that many women, secretly, fantasize about being taken by force. Ever been turned on by the thought of raping someone? I certainly haven't. Neither have I been aroused by the thought of torturing someone to death. But then, I never pulled off spiders legs as a child, either. Neither have I ever held magnifying glasses up to ants to focus the sun on them, just to watch them burn. It would be interesting to find out, of those who enjoy films like Hostel, how many enjoy flicking cigarettes at dogs. Just my 2c.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:43 a.m. CST

    We can only hope

    by lost.rules

    ER: I think that there is going to be some theater somewhere where people are so outraged at it, they're going to demand that they just don't show it anymore.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:46 a.m. CST

    3 REVIEWS UP AT ROTTEN TOMATOES...

    by dcut75

    All 3 positive. The end is nigh.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:51 a.m. CST

    What happened, Eli?

    by JackTheMime

    I'm one of the few people who liked Cabin Fever. I thought it was pretty damn good, in fact. I remember listening to Roth's commentary for that movie. He sounded like a regular guy. A guy who really enjoyed making the movie. He sounded really happy to finally direct a film. Now he's just another Hollywood whore. The success has gone to his head. Quentin Tarantino has blown so much smoke up the guy's ass. It's a shame. He really could've gone places, I think.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:51 a.m. CST

    HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT

    by dcut75

    For everyone who thinks Hostel is "too much" go rent the following movies; 'Men Behind the Sun' 'Salo' 'In a Glass Cage' Then come back and we'll have a discussion about depravity.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Oh, O.K. I'll go do that dcunt75. But in the meantime

    by lost.rules

    FUCK HOSTEL!!!!!!!!!

  • June 4, 2007, 9:55 a.m. CST

    JackTheMime

    by dcut75

    Hostel was a blockbuster, now he's got the most talked about movie of the summer. Next is a big budget adaptation of a King novel. You may not like the guy, but I think he's already "gone places"

  • June 4, 2007, 9:56 a.m. CST

    lostrules

    by dcut75

    Just can't keep this in the realm of civil debate can we?

  • June 4, 2007, 10 a.m. CST

    Question

    by dcut75

    I know this tb is about Hostel, but do you people feel the same about Rob Zombie, Darren Lynn Bousman and Alexander Aja?

  • June 4, 2007, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Well look at all the talkbackers rushing to fill the

    by TORTURE PWN

    void left by Jerry Falwell.With all of the pain & suffering in the real world It's wonderful you found a fucking MOVIE to rally around in your quest to save the "moral fabric" of America.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:03 a.m. CST

    "gone places".. yeah, next destination, HELL

    by hatespeech

    He'll fit right in with all the other demonic forces.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:08 a.m. CST

    TalkBack Battle Royale

    by liljuniorbrown

    My point is this, Roth seems to be way ton infatuated with bringing the most depraved thing he can get away with to the public ( 15-25 yr olds). Thats just not art in my eyes. Thats like the kid at school (and on this site) who says the stuff the know will piss people off just for a reaction. Some people just thrive off of trying to make people upset. I don't buy it! Fuck Hostel,Touristas, Saw3 and the rest of the shit that this genre keeps spawning. So many directors in the past have made films that used violence to get the story's point across without going overboard ,Silence of the Lambs didn't have to show Hannibal actualy eating someone,we got the point,we're not stupid. Fincher showed us in Seven how dark John Doe,who was a stand in the kind of people who blow up abortion clinics, mind can go without showing the scene's in depth play by play.He showed us some gore and a description and we were still horrified,we filled in the ugly blanks ourselves. It's just not what we have to see. I don't care if people like Miike,make movies with women(primarily) being slaughtered for no apparent reason,thats his business,but it's not art. Just keep in mind the tag line from 8mm,Some things are better unseen.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:09 a.m. CST

    dcut

    by JackTheMime

    I meant he could have gone places creatively (maybe). I don't care how much the movie makes. If it's a piece of shit, it's a piece of shit.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Hostel is not too much, its nowhere near

    by MontyPigeon

    Eli himself says in his interview above that the only way he can compete with the likes of Pirates and Spidey 3 is by having one scene at the end. Not a plot device, a twist of the highest order but a final kill. That's how unoriginal this guy is, he depends on that one scene to sell his movie. The problem isn't with the gore (or lack of it in terms of Hostel 2), its to do with the fact that this film is complete bullshit for the first hour. Its hard to find a worst first hour of a film anywhere. From the acting to the dialogue, its absolute shit. People are accepting bullshit and that's why we get bullshit. The only thing is this: Is Eli using AICN or is AICN using Eli? How many other films have used AICN as their publisher? A knowingly shitty piece of film getting rave reviews for the purpose of getting more people to see their friends movie. Give me a film, not a 1 hour piece of nonsense followed by half hour of overhyped gore (its tame). AICN has sold its soul to the studios, bottom line. The reviews of Hostel 2 will prove as much. Sad state of affairs but money talks.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:13 a.m. CST

    I understand your point

    by dcut75

    But Hostel didn't show THAT much. The most graphic part of the movie was when Paxton snipped the girl's eye off, and he was trying to help her in that scene. There are way more violent films out there.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:24 a.m. CST

    dcut75.rob zombie is a hack piece of shit.Bousman will

    by TORTURE PWN

    never accomplish anything more substantial than his SAW sequels done in James Wan's style (as if quick cuts & blue lighting constitutes "style"anymore).Aja & Roth (& let's throw Neil Marshall in there too)are the only ones even TRYING to do something new/different with the horror genre.It seems that the people too stupid to realize and appreciate that fact aren't knowledgeable horror fans anyway and aren't inclined to support their stuff anyway.The ones rallying against Roth have more in common with the cross toting,Bible thumping,enemies of free speech that think the "moral fabric" of America's at stake.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:35 a.m. CST

    TORTURE PWN

    by NachoNegro

    "cross toting,Bible thumping,enemies of free speech"? So, to reiterate a question I asked earlier (which was suspiciously ignored), it is 'OK' to show a graphic depiction of a 6 year old girl being raped, multilated, then finally killed in some horrific way? I mean, it's not real, right? But is it OK? And if not, why not? What's the difference? Surely the only thing that's different is that she's 20 years younger? So, if that's wrong to you, then you've drawn a line, haven't you? So, you're also "against free speech", in as much as you don't support realistic depictions of young children being raped - correct? So we agree - the only thing we disagree on is where 'the line' is.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:36 a.m. CST

    SuckLeTrou

    by Chilli815

    I don't want to canonise Hostel or Hostel II, rather let the filmmaker know that showing scenes of torture is not art, and its not subverting a genre. Not to mention point out to filmmakers that a story has to have a logic to it - you can't just throw in scenes of wantom violence and degradation for the sake of it. That's not a film, its pure trash, simulated snuff.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:40 a.m. CST

    Indiana Jones and the sick twisted f*cks of doom

    by NachoNegro

    I suspect the reason why AICN is so quiet is because they realize they've gone a bit too far this time. Quint, Capone etc. - crawl back out of Roths arse and recover a tiny bit of objectivity. Please. You are supposed to be journalists. Don't fellate this hack just because he's offered you a set visit. If this site was more credible than it is, perhaps *real* film-makers would be more willing to participate. As it is, the fact that z-grade talentless idiots like Roth and Boll get so much coverage just makes everyone else see AICN as a joke.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:50 a.m. CST

    NachoNegro,are you really trying to = HOSTEL

    by TORTURE PWN

    to child abuse?Like it or not there IS a big difference between children being victimized/exploited and adults who should know better than to get themselves into a "HOSTEL-type" situation and at least have a fighting chance.To even bring this up for discussion while talking about a fucking fictitious MOVIE is ridiculous.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Jealousy

    by TheHorror

    Ok abou 200 posts back some dude posted something about Hostel 2 haters being film school mofos who are jealous that Roth made it and they didn't...This is a rediculous generalisation on a par with the stupidity of Hostel 2's "twists". I am a film lover and maker and yes I am not as successful as Roth but if I hated him because he was successful why wouldn't I hate every other director to have his film released by a studio? The truth is indie/against the odds film-makers who get their scripts made are my heroes - you tit! Also I think the majority of folk on this forum are film lovers not wannabe film makers w/ vendettas against successful people...the truth is this film is an absolute farce - it shouldn't make any money and eli roth should be banned from making any leaps in what his films actually mean when he knows it's a whole lot of nothing, it's not even a valid story let alone a political message - talking all this Michael Moore speel about wars and such is quite frankly offensive when he might have genuine opinions on it - he never thought to put any n his film...sell it for what it is - a very cheap looking, boring movie with a comedy fx shock bit at the end - It's not a twist either - fuck eli roth and this film!!!!

  • June 4, 2007, 10:56 a.m. CST

    And another thing,Nacho

    by TORTURE PWN

    I didn't see 1/2 the ire Roth receives focused on the last Dakota Fanning movie where her character was raped.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:05 a.m. CST

    100% agree TheHorror

    by MontyPigeon

    Its as if someone said "I wish to make a movie where someone gets their dick pulled off at the end". Then someone else says "But what happens before that?", they reply "Who fucking cares? Its not as if a movie has to have a story." This is exactly how Hostel 2 was conceived during the cocaine binge.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:07 a.m. CST

    TORTURE PWN

    by NachoNegro

    Are you being deliberately disingenuous? You know perfectly well the point I was making, and if you don't, you're a wee bit slow. If you can't be bothered / don't understand, I'm not going to continue to debate it with you. As for Dakota Fanning, I don't feel particularly comfortable with that, either. But I have not seen the film, so don't feel entirely qualified to comment.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Nachonegro

    by dcut75

    Awhile back I cited 3 movies that I recommended to people who are offended by Hostel and it's ilk.(Salo, Men Behind the Sun and In a Glass Cage) I picked these films for a reason. They are probably 3 of the most depraved, graphic, exploitative, fucked up films ever made. They make Hostel look like 'Are We Done Yet'. They are also considered by many to be works of high art(Don't take my word for it, type them into rotten tomatoes and read some reviews). They contain scenes just like the one you described. Salo features child rape and murder. In a Glass Cage has a child murdered by gasoline injection to the heart! These films shattered me when I saw them, and I've seen everything. Was I entertained by them? No. Would I ever watch them again? Never. Do I personally consider them art? Not at all. Does that mean they shouldn't exist? Absolutely not.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Also

    by TheHorror

    why do the bubblegum kids ask for a dollar? They're in Slovakia! Maybe this shows Eli's ignorance to the world outside America. God, i really hate this film

  • June 4, 2007, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Heh

    by JackTheMime

    Cocaine binge.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:19 a.m. CST

    One more thing,Nacho...

    by TORTURE PWN

    Let me guess...movies like DIE HARD that treat death like a cartoon are O.K. in your book but if it's done with a modicum of realism or with consequences attatched it's not?

  • June 4, 2007, 11:23 a.m. CST

    I get "the point" you were TRYING to make,Nacho

    by TORTURE PWN

    You just didn't make it.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:43 a.m. CST

    He Made His Point Very Well

    by Rebeck3

    You just can't refute it, so you ignored it and pretended he was comparing the movie to the REAL rape of children. As he said, you're not THAT dense, you're just skirting the issue because you have no logical response.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:44 a.m. CST

    VERN DID YOU READ MY FIRST POST?

    by gride9000

    VERN, you are right, Hostal has very little time compared to modern clssics like "Star69", one of Jenna Jameson's first. Was "Caligula" or any other high budget porn from the 70's all sex. Have you ever seen a softcore porn marketed to women. There are charactors and breaks in the fucking. Here's my post, and if you had read it, you might have been cool.<p> HEY ELI, your movies belong on both shelves:<p>ELI, Your movie allows people to "get off" on violence. Isn't that argument you made?<p> Everyone assumes the "Tourture Porn" is a "Top" thing. By that I mean it is assumed people's twisted sexual urges are satified by the idea they could touture someone ala "Hostal". I belive the soldiers in Iraq "get off" on your movie by identifing with the fear of being caught and toutured. This is the definition of a S&M "Bottom". <p> I have read that alot of S&M behavior is not focused on cumming or erections or even nudity. So if this is true, the military people in Iraq that fancy your film might not show the traditional signs of sexuality, but they are "getting off". "Getting off" really means many things, and if all that S&M stuff is sexual without orgasms or nudity, then you are making a film that could be in the horror or porn sections.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:54 a.m. CST

    MontyPigeon

    by TheHorror

    Indeed, I think we're on the same page as to how very, very bad this film is - in every possible sense, it's a sham! Torture Porn or not it's a poorly directed piece that a first-timer would be embaressed of - so fuck knows what Eli REALLY feels about his 3rd feature. As i've said in all my other posts I hate this film and everything it stands for & I, like Eli am a huge horror fan - even the gory ones! But this is one of the worst MADE films EVER, it shows no care and no thinking on behalf of the production team and it's shit, fuck this film - I will continue these "This is a bad film" post when this debate strays into the world of "Torture Porn", which although is an interesting debate, doesn't seem to mention that this is a whorish attempt at film-making, I just think Eli could't wait to get back touring again and getting press - for which he is very good at. Fuck this film!

  • June 4, 2007, 11:58 a.m. CST

    O.K. rebeck & Nacho then every other violent film

    by TORTURE PWN

    like DIE HARD & LETHAL WEAPON must be bad too because,my God,what if they starred CHILDREN getting shot!Your little "it's not O.K for adults because it's not O.K. for children" argument is total bullshit.The last time I checked HOSTEL didn't feature any child rape,so apparrently your point is just to somehow equate HOSTEL with child abuse (real or simulated) when there is no connection simply to undermine it because you either don't like, get it,or both.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Most hilarious comment in this talkback.

    by Jakes Nel

    "I have READ that alot of S&M behaviour is not focused on cumming or erections or even nudity." Thanks, buddy. That was a good one...

  • June 4, 2007, 12:07 p.m. CST

    The reason I cannot stand Eli Roth films

    by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz

    has nothing at all to do with the torture or gore scenes in his movies. It has to do with the overall directing skills. The movies themselves. They are just terrible. I felt no connection what so ever to any of the characters in any of his films. I did not find myself rooting for anyone to win or lose. They were just very bland and not much fun. When I go to see a horror film I want more then gore. I want some fucking substance. Roth has yet to conjure up any of this in both movies I've seen, that being Cabin Fever and Hostel.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:11 p.m. CST

    and for the record, From Beyond is a good example

    by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz

    of what a good horror movie can be. STRONG memorable characters. It's finally getting it's just due with a proper DVD release on Sept 11th and no one on this site has reported it. Amazing. This is a Stuart Gordan , Jeffery Combs classic right up there with Re-Animator. It has everything, great story, gore, humor. Why has there still not been even a peep of it that it's getting a NTSC DVD deluxe edition release?

  • June 4, 2007, 12:18 p.m. CST

    you got me, you dumb fuck, Jakes Nel

    by gride9000

    Jakes Nel, I have a giant spike in my urithera, and a large bearded man is whipping me. Yes, right now. <p>You nailed the whole thing. I've really have first hand knowledge of this shit, and I'm being coy. Coy, on the internet with a talkback handle. Yes, so much to hide, so much shame. You little fucking dingbat Jakes Nel, you're fucking next.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:29 p.m. CST

    RE: hatespeech - Piss Christ and slight wrongness...

    by Negative Man

    Jose Serrano is not the artist that created Piss Christ. It's Andres Serrano. It wasn't that he 'liked the light', he did it because he often used bodily fluids and corpses to create his 'shocking' images. Though he had some great photographs that did not center on or use blood, corpses, feces, semen, and urine...he's mostly known for those subjects. In the end, he's a pretty lackluster 'artist' that rich people and art snobs think is brilliant because he bucks the perceived system. "Look Henry, a picture of a pantless dead guy with a crucifix hanging from his limp, dead penis...BRILLIANT!!! It must mean religion is a limp idea created by man. We are so smart and intelligent, unlike the philistines that live below our ivory towers!" He wasn't really 'discovered' until Piss Christ in 1987. So, in the end, he was another uncreative duche that found a nitch audience in rich idiots with too much money to spend. Kinda like producers. Now he's all about creating shitty works of art out of litteral shit. NIFTY! Gotta love the art world. Many brilliant ones aren't discovered until they're dead and many bad ones get money thrown at them to create more crap while they are alive.

  • June 4, 2007, 12:51 p.m. CST

    chilli815 and Vern...

    by DukeDeMondo

    Chilli - "I've never watched Hostel, and never had a desire to, beyond a brief AICN chat about four-five months ago. The reason why is because of the reviews I read, the synopsis I read, the interviews I read. " i suspect you have just summed up 76% of this TB's actual knowledge regarding the film / s. To say "i haven't seen it" and then talk about there being no character development nor twists nor suprises is just... well, it pretty much invalidates everything you had to say on the matter. and it is blatantly obvious from reading these arguments that a good deal of the cats herein have never seen it either. Intelligent, informed criticism is one thing. filling a thousand and forty-six whale's worth of net-space with ignorant bleating about a film you've never seen is nothin shy of deplorable. it's no better than what Mary Whitehouse got up to in her time. to then talk about there's no subtext, and you having seen no more than a scrawled IMDB synopsis... it makes me feel a bit sad, to be honest, that amongst movie fans, this kind of uninformed reactionary knee-jerk nonsense is not only accepted, but celebrated as some kind of moral victory. the talk about the MTV direction, the "40-minute torture sequences" the slow-motion - NONE of that applies to Hostel, and it's frustrating beyond belief to see these things tossed about as valid criticisms when it couldn't be further from the truth. People on here are talking about this TB restoring their faith in humanity - Maybe so, but it goes a good way towards painting a good deal of commentators herein as no better than the sorts of ignorant knobs who stood protesting, say, Dogma or The Last Temptation Of Christ without having seen a fucking frame. We laugh at those imbeciles now, and did then, and, i gotta pull those drapes back a minute and let some harsh truth in - a lot of you folks are revealing yourselves to be not one iota better nor any the hell more credible nor defensible. sad stuff. vern - carol clover's book is fantastic, and a joy it is to hear tell of another who believes this to be the case. what she has to say about TCSM 2 in particular is well worth trackin the book down for. re : the guniea pig films - i think folks need to be more specific when they talk about them. Flower Of Flesh And Blood may well come close to "torture porn", but something like Mermaid In A Manhole certainly does not, and neither does Android Of Notre Dam nor He Never Dies. Mermaid... is one of the most unique, surreal, eerie, haunting and even, of occasion, beautiful (if terribly nihilistic) pieces o' work i've ever stumbled across. there's not a torture scene (if we define that as a character being set upon by another with all the requisite sobbin, screaming etc) in the damn thing. not one. but then fuck it, that's only, what, three less than Hostel has? so, yeah. TORTURE PORN!!!! www.mondoirlando.com

  • June 4, 2007, 12:57 p.m. CST

    DukeDeMondo

    by Chilli815

    Actually, no. I got myself informed about the film. Yes, watching it would crystalise my points, but I'm hardly someone whose going off bias second hand information. I've read a wide range of information and come to a conclusion.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:06 p.m. CST

    GREAT TALKBACK

    by ProfGriffin

    Seriously, I've really enjoyed this. Hostel and it's ilk are what they are. Let's keep in mind, these are MOVIES and MOVIES cannot decay the fabric of morality. They are reflections. You guys know this...I know you do. World War I- disfigurement, World War II- the Supernatural....Nam, etc. I just see this as another WAVE. Opinion? I don't care for these movies, but I enjoyed reading Roth discuss them and feel he has every right in the world to make them. HOSTEL (and no doubt it's sequel) will be the Elsa, She Wolf of the SS and Bloodsucking Freaks of the year 2035. Seriously, if HG Lewis had the technology to make his films and effects as gritty and realistic as Roth, don't you think he would have? Live and let live, er...die I say. Hack away Eli, Hack away.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Vern - Men, Women & Chainsaws...

    by spud mcspud

    I had to read that piece of shit for A Level Media studies, and to be honest, Eli would love it. So much psychology theory going into an appraisal of a genre created by the very last people who would put THAT much thought into creating a movie! I mean, the central argument for why people hate these movies is a fear of penetration: the fear of being stabbed by Michael Myers is actually a veil for the real fear of being fucked with Michael Myers' dick. No, I have to say, being stabbed with the knife is frightening enough - saying that something is subconscious is just a good way of saying, you don't KNOW that you think this way, you just do, okay? Because it's subconscious. Therefore I am right and you are wrong. To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a knife is just a knife :D

  • June 4, 2007, 1:13 p.m. CST

    guina pig 2

    by ProfGriffin

    SOMEONE WROTE- guina pig 2 was responseible for a child snuff killer in japan! who taped himself rapeing and dismembering 2 innocent school children! RESPECTFULLY, I disagree. The movie was not responsible...the disturbed individual was. And even then, if a movie set him off, he had a mental illness, and ANYTHING could have set him off...a game of Monopoly, a traffic light, a bit of undercooked pasta...the artist has the right to make art GOD BLESS AMERICA..., and we have every right to see it, or not. The mentally ill? Not created by movies, murderers? Been around a lot longer than cinema. Just my opinion.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Just because you disagree with Hostel does...

    by rbatty024

    not mean you think it's the beginning of some moral decay. A film can be morally bankrupt, but that does not mean it is going to send people out into the streets to torture others. A morally simplistic film that purposefully allows the audience the vicarious thrill of torture is just a bad film. It's uncomplex and does not understand the implications of what's on screen. This is a generalization of my stance. However, I would be hard pressed to say it's going to cause some moral decay, and I see very few, if any, detractors claiming that Hostel is the end of Western Civilization. They are merely making a case for Hostel being a bad movie.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Spud, man

    by DukeDeMondo

    Clover's book says a hell of a lot more than "it's all about fear of getting fucked". and this notion of horror filmmakers being incapable or unwilling to say anything with their work is just... snobbery, is what it is. jesus, i hear this kinda shit from folks stood sniffin glue around the walls of the multiplex. i don't expect to hear it from "movie fans". and Chilli, watching it would do a lot more than "crystalise your points". it would make them valid. can you really expect anyone to take anything said about the worth of ANY film seriously if they've never seen it? no ammount of reading up makes "this is (good / bad / worthless / pointless / artless / important) because (point A / point B / point C / point break)" any more credible if the commentator has no first hand knowledge of it. you can say "i read that this is such-and-such", but it's got little more weight than the 12 year old who tells you so-and-so is a whore because such-and-such says she did this and that and the other.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Just saw guina pig 2

    by gride9000

    Wow, ummmmm, who cares about this lame film. That Japanese dude raped those little girls cause he's psycho. <p><P> ATTENTION ALL I JUST WATCHED GUINE PIG AND I DON"T WANT TO RAPE CHILDREN NOW<P> I really didn't mind guina pig 2 because it had low production value. Hostal puts you in the chair...in 5.1. guina pig 2 is silly. All these super low budget films are unconvincing.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Allow me to start the slow clap for DukeDeMondo&

    by TORTURE PWN

    ProfGriffin.No greater truths are there in this talkback.Well played.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:24 p.m. CST

    rbatty024

    by ProfGriffin

    My apologies, I did not want to imply that I thougth that anyone who dislikes the movie thinks it's the beginning of the end for morality in the world. I repeat, I DO NOT CARE for these films. But the fact that torture and cruelty on screen doesn't appeal to you (or I), the fact that Eli Roth is a glorified exploitation filmmaker who is there for the shock and the easy way, does NOT mean LOTS of horror fans will flock to it and LOVE it. A film that allows the audience to vicariously enjoy torture is a bad film TO YOU. To others it may be a masterpiece. Doesn't mean they are dangerous or sick...just that their tastes are radically different from ours. And that my friend, is a good thing.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:29 p.m. CST

    not liking Hostel doesn't mean we forsee moral decay

    by Magic Rat

    it just means that the bar is being lowered as to what's acceptable forms of entertainment. 20 years from now, what are these types of films going to show, how far will the envelope have been pushed? Where would even the people who enjoy Hostel start to say 'this is just some fucked up shit right here. I mean, nobody is saying people are going to watch this and go out and commit crimes, but there's something unseemly and unnerving about people being entertained by this stuff in the same way it's unseemly and unnerving to know that there were people who got cases of beer and chips and stuff and sat down to watch the Shock & Awe over Baghdad back in March 2003 like it was the Superbowl.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:31 p.m. CST

    as for this guy GABRIEL GRAY WANKS IN YOUR FUCKING FACE

    by gride9000

    You are a sad person. Get an TB handle that isn't a lame insult. Getting a new TB handle will allow your TB couterparts to see your post s not as the rambalings of a immature, ignorant, uncreative nerd who can't even properly throw sand in an enemy's face; but see your posts as the ramblings of a hateful, unattractive, hoplessly unlayable freak who scoures the earth for low butget snuff. Thats the real you!

  • June 4, 2007, 1:32 p.m. CST

    DukeDeMondo

    by spud mcspud

    No, you're right, there's a lot more to it to that book than what I put in there, but essentially criticism of horror movies on the level of books like that one always just end up delving into the whole "fear of horror is really fear of sex" arena. I think that sometimes just fearing what is literally happening in front of your eyes is enough. I've studied media studies and psychology. and I genuinely think that a lot of these parallels are drawn by academics who are too keen to be taken very seriously, and end up coming up with dreck like that. Sometimes, a knife IS just a knife. Still it's all in the eye of the beholder. But I ask you this: does anyone REALLY think that John Carpenter decided on giving Michael Myers a knife because it more closely resembles a penis than any other stabbing implement? Or did he just think "What can he use? Ah fuck it, a knife will do." Because from the interviews I've read with the guy, talented as he undoubtedly is, I don't think John Carpenter thinks on this pseudopsychosexual plane that Carol Clover does in her book. He's too busy trying to finish his movie. It's reading too much into it.<P> Much like Eli Roth is doing when he tries to present his torture porn shit as art. It isn't.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Gabriel Gray

    by ProfGriffin

    Yes, I know of cases (lots of them mentioned in Stephen King's Danse Macabre) that have murderers claiming that the movie influenced them to do it. But again, that doesn't mean the movies are to blame. It is a MOVIE, it's meant to entertain. Remember folks, one man's trash is another man's treasure.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Just got off the phone with 2 fat kids....

    by Ultron ver 2.0

    ....there will only be some mild sack-bumping after the test screening.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Also ProGriffin, I don't necessarily think...

    by rbatty024

    it's impossible to make a horror film that deals with torture in a complex manner, I just don't think Eli Roth has accomplished this. The fact that he feels that the torture is some sort of retribution for the characters' previous actions lets an audience to vicariously connect with the torturer. I think this simplicity kills the movie. The film is morally bankrupt and I put it in the same category as other art that fails because of moral and artistic reasons, like Heart of Darkness (Worst. Book. Ever!).

  • June 4, 2007, 1:38 p.m. CST

    not snuff

    by gride9000

    I understand, snuff is documentary, and these shitty films are faked with FX. I said "you scoured the world for snuff" as an alogory for your lame lifestyle. Plus it was a sick burn.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Spud McSpud

    by ProfGriffin

    Yes, sir...I agree. EXAMPLE #2: George Romero just set out to make a little black and white horror film in 1968...no social commentary. Duane Jones was just the best actor for the job. No social intention. Interviews conflict with them selves when often given by the same person years apart. One year..."Nah, I was just making the best, scariest movie I could"...years later, "we really felt that this was our chance to say something..." Twaddle-speak says I.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:43 p.m. CST

    What does a Replicant know of fine literature?

    by gride9000

    I guess you didn't know "Heart of Darkness" is a grown up book. I like Hostal, but to put that book in the discussion is not on par in the least. Nice try.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:43 p.m. CST

    It is just not entertaining

    by BlackBeltJones

    Look, I don't care what he puts in his films, that is Eli Roth's business. But Hostel was just dull. Half the film was just to build up to the torture side of the film. And once you got to the torture side of the film, it was just overwhelming. I was told how great Hostel was suppose to be, especially from this site. But in actuality, it was a big dud. A bomb in my opinion.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:46 p.m. CST

    I Never Heard Of These Guinea Pig Films...

    by Rebeck3

    Which surprised me, cuz I thought I knew everything about film. (I'm sure all of you feel the same) I read up on IMDB and Amazon, including a beat by beat breakdown of the torture, and I found this review for "Flowers" from a soldier: "I would like to start out by saying that i heard that this was a truly horriffying movie. I was expecting babies being raped with knives kind of crap, but instead i got horrid effects, ruined illusions and overacting. True the topic it dealt with i guess is disturbing to people who have been kept in the dark that is current society. All in all i have seen worse things here in Iraq, if there is anything that i can say to desuade you from purchasing this DVD, imagine that i have said it... Weak..." I don't know what disturbs me more - that he's seen worse things in Iraq or that it wasn't disturbing enough for him. Wow. I don't know what to say.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:50 p.m. CST

    How about a little less fixation on a MOVIE

    by TORTURE PWN

    that contains fictional scenes of torture and a little more concentration on THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD THAT CONDONES & USES such practices as we speak IN REAL LIFE.Or is that too much to ask from a bunch of anonymous talkback monkeys picking nits off each other and flicking them at Eli Roth out of boredom or some poorly aimed & ridiculous moral crusade for decency in film.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:50 p.m. CST

    gride9000

    by Jakes Nel

    Sorry for the late reply. Listen, you simply put a smile on my face with that line. I didn't mean to insult you or anything. Please don't be so sensitive about it.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Torture as art

    by ProfGriffin

    rbatty024's well thought out responses and excellent points (most of which I agree with) has made me wonder. Can anyone name some movies that prominately feature TORTURE or a TORTURE scene that is done well? Scenes that are handled with skill and crafted with care and provide a deeper insight to both the victim AND the torturer? Can anyone name any? Documentries don't count. The mere fact that man's inhumanity to man has been featured in many many films, historical, dramas, sweeping epics etc...makes it a worthy subject to be discussed. But HOW is it presented? The Drawing and Quartering in Braveheart made me cringe, and we saw nothing...the skinning alive scene in Stuart Gordon's DAGON was not overly gruesome due to effects, but the lead in (victim praying The Lord's Prayer all through the torture) and the SOUND EFFECT. Heck, for that matter, the Passion of the Christ, which handles some pretty hot-button themes, but flays skins and splatters blood like a torture porn film.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:55 p.m. CST

    The Passion...

    by Rebeck3

    IS torture porn. It easily fills the bill if you ask me. What that movie has to do with Christ's words of forgiveness and mercy I have no fucking idea.

  • June 4, 2007, 1:59 p.m. CST

    The Passion Of The Christ

    by DukeDeMondo

    Is one of the best horror films of the past decade. Saw and Ringu are probably the most influencial.

  • June 4, 2007, 2 p.m. CST

    without mentioning Evil Dead Trap...

    by DukeDeMondo

    which is responsible for the lot, Saw to Hostel to The Passion to...

  • June 4, 2007, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Ichi the Killer....

    by LasciviousXXX

    .... Now THAT'S some good torture porn right there :) I don't look at Hostel as torture porn. I just see it as a horror film.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Chili815

    by samuel1

    Jack Bauer in 24 is the "lesser evil". Yes, what he does he's horrible and soul-crushing, but we do need him and it. We don't like it, but we need someone who's willing to get his soul crushed for the country. That's the whole point behind it. We might not like Jack, but we need him. We might not like Guantanamo, but we need it. I actually think that we don't need Guantanamo, and that Guantanamo crushes the soul of America, pardon the rethoric. Having said that, I repeat, I would never dream of actively campaigning against it, because the show has all the right to exist, in the way it's been conceived. To go back to the issue at hand, to argue that the first Hostel is pro-torture is not even up to debate. You identify with the victims of torture in it, you see the events from their point of views. Saying that it's pro-torture, or even anbiguous about it, it's like saying that Little Red Riding Hood is pro-big wolves eating old ladies alive. The truth of the mater is that Hostel didn't invent anything. Gore and violence have always existed. The only things that's changed from the time of Herschel Gordon Lewis, is that now this movies are mainstream. They make a lot of money. The discussion of Hostel being good or bad is completely moot to the discussion. It doesn;t mater, and it certainly doesn't change the fact that there's a massive overeaction that sprung out of a couple of news articles, and of a massive ignorance of history of cinema. To mention The Devils again, when it came out it was banned in many countries (UK included, I think), it got a semi-clandestine screening at the Venice Film Festival, and got reactions like this one from Judith Crist: "The film is a grand fiesta for sadists and perverts". It was 1971. There's nothing new here. No border has been crossed. If it can be any consolation, like with any other phase, this will eventually come to an end, extremely gory horror movies (of which Hostel is NOT an example, or at least os far from being the most extreme example) will get off the mainstream wave, and you could go back to this site to bitch about those fucking PG 13 horror movies again. Aren't Talkbacks grand.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Horror fans who don't dig on the Lady Bathory thing?

    by SleazyG.

    Seriously? What a bunch of fucking underinformed namby-pamby momma's boys. Shit, Eli does an homage to one of the worst serial killers in history, sets in the woman's actual native country, and a bunch of spastic knee-jerk momma's boys cry about it. "Oooh, boo hoo, she kills a girl and bathes in her blood, it's SOOO AWFUL AND DEMEANING!" The scene was based on a legendary 400 year old historical figure, for chrissakes. Fuckin' suck it up and do the fuckin' research if your mommy will let you use teh intarweb for something other than dumbassed flame wars, you little whiners...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_B%C3%A1thory . I can't believe that people are bitching so much about that scene on a website devoted to geeky genre movies. What the fuck, man?

  • June 4, 2007, 2:34 p.m. CST

    When the movie in question,mr_sinister7381

    by TORTURE PWN

    is a reflection of things that are happening in the REAL WORLD then discussing the REAL WORLD in a movie talkback IS relevant.You twit.

  • June 4, 2007, 2:37 p.m. CST

    ProfGriffin

    by Chilli815

    Lost (granted its TV) had a scene in S1 where a former Iraqi Soldier tortured a Redneck Conman. It was brutal, and it was disturbing, but it revealed their true characters and had a logical place in the narrative. The scene actually helped subvert the audience because our initial hatred of the Redneck was turned into pity as the horror of his desire to die became known to us. That was a complex and adult scene... and Ichi The Killer was downright unbearable to watch after ten minutes for me.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:06 p.m. CST

    2 cents

    by parabola99

    1. This is one of the most interesting talkbacks I've read. Look at us, we're discussing film! 2. I have not seen Hostel nor do I have plans on seeing Hostel 2. I have no intentions of seeing the movie because the trailers make it out to be 2 hours of torture. Not really horror in my eyes, so I'm not really interested. I don't think that Eli Roth should be strung up by his nuts for this, though. He's got every artistic right to make as torturous a movie as he wants, in my opinion. He's not actually killing people. The censorship of his work can be determined through ticket sales. If we don't want to see his movies, we won't see his movies. If no one sees it, they won't make more. The power of the almighty dollar at work. Movie subjects usually play out a fantasized version of our thoughts and ideas. I think it includes some of the things that have been mentioned in this talkback regarding the torture in Hostel. It's an extreme version of our thoughts, but we all think this, none the less. I'm not suggesting that the idea of stringing a woman up and slicing her open to bath in her blood has ever crossed our minds, but to be honest, I can see how given time brainstorming, each one of us could come up with a fucked up way to hurt someone. We are fascinated with death and the different ways we arrive there, whether it be natural or wholly unnatural, like in these type of movies. 99% of us have that filter in our heads that keeps us from acting out on these things that cross our minds when provoked a certain way (someone cuts you off in the road, someone hits your sister, whatever it may be). But these things are there and need to exorcised in one way or another. Some people write dark songs. Bret Ellis wrote American Psycho. Some people stare at car accidents curiously hoping for carnage. Eli Roth made Hostel. Some people watch Hostel. The long and winding point of this is that it's not unnatural for people to be interested in this type of movie. If there's an audience for it, these movies will continue to exist. If there isn't, like the opinions on this page seem to imply, then they'll fade into memory.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:14 p.m. CST

    I think its so funny

    by kilik777

    how people judge movies before they even have a chance to see it. If you dont like Eli then dont fucking read posts about him or respond. Boycott his movies and maybe he'll go away. Ive actually seen it a few times and I thoroughly enjoyed it. http://tinyurl.com/pv8do

  • June 4, 2007, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Movie City News Talks About this Worthless Film

    by Fartgod The IRSTard

    Late in the evening, just before going to sleep, I went on MCN and saw, again, the story about Hostel II being pirated and being on the streets. This reminded me that I had bought a copy of the film - at least I assumed so - in Seattle when a guy with a photo bag was walking past me on a busy shopping street calling out gently, 'Movies ... I got movies.' I found the disc in some shopping bag and threw it in my room's DVD player. Indeed, the $5 DVD - not in a case, as it has often been in NY, but with a handwritten Sharpie and a flimsy little sleeve - was the already infamous in-house copy of Hostel II. I wrote the confirmation up in the blog and was ready to get back to bed and sleep. And then I thought, 'I hated the first movie, though I didn't find it all that horrible ... a long jerk off ... I can fast forward though this one and never have to think or write about it again.' So I started watching, in spite of writing in the blog that I wasn't going to. I got through about 30 minutes ... three girls touring Europe ... a hot Eurobabe who invites them to the Hostel ... minor skirmishes with guys on the train ... yadda yadda yadda ... Somewhere around an hour, the inevitable turn. The girls are sold over the internet for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Men will soon come and do whatever they want to do with them, invariably leading to death. This is the lovely premise of this idiotic horror porn franchise. (Last time the guys were sold.) The girls get separated. The third act has begun. And then, I watched a scene that was the most disgusting, degrading, misogynistic, soulless shit I have ever seen in a movie that is going to be released widely in this country. If this is a spoiler for you, I am sorry for you. Heather Matarazzo, who you might know from Welcome to the Dollhouse, The Princess Diaries or a number of other films, is hung upside down, naked, bound and gagged over a pool that slowly has candles lit around it as she screams through her gag throughout. Then a beautiful European woman comes in, disrobes, lays in the tub, and starts toying with the screaming Matarazzo with a long handled sickle. She starts to draw blood and also starts getting off on it. She eventually removes the gag so Matarazzo can beg more pathetically and then cuts her throat, bathing and luxuriating in the blood as it pores over here. And at that moment, for me, this was no longer just about a stupid, masturbatory, poorly directed shit piece of horror porn. Eli Roth became a little less human to me. You have to remember, this is a movie. Not only did Eli Roth come up with this inhuman idea that has no meaning whatsoever other than his masturbatory fantasies about raising the bar. Shame on the L.A. Times for allowing him to ramble on about how there is a political subtext to his work. Utter bullshit. Of course, based on the story that ran in the Sunday Times, the paper did the piece without seeing this irredeemable embarrassment or, presumably, the new film would have been mentioned. And not only did he think of this, but he hung an actress, however willing, upside down and naked, gagged and bound, screaming, as nothing but a piece of objectified meat as Roth's camera moves her breasts in and out of frame like some sort of sick porn tease. This is not the first time a director has done something horrible to an actress, but as the scene dragged on, I felt as though I was watching Ms. Matarazzo being raped on a spiritual level. This director did not identify with her as a human in the scene ... she is just the target for a bloody gag. And then, like the truly sick punk he is, he made a woman do the dirty work in the scene. All said and done, the only person in the film who actually ends up sexually gratified by torture is a woman. There are others who seem to be going there. But this is the one fully executed torture/murder in the film. And just for fun, the woman gets to be naked too. (I would name the 'actress,' but I have no idea which character name is hers and I am not going to watch the scene again to find out.) I never did respect Roth's work. Now, if he and I crossed paths, I would refuse to shake his hand. I would extinguish the fire if he was burning, using something quicker than urine, but I'm not sure that I wouldn't consider it karmic payback for him. In fact, the work was not nearly as graphic as what I saw in Lake of Fire. But it was so without purpose that it sickened me to my core. There is more stupidity in the film. Using a chainsaw with an aim to cut up Bijou Phillips, clever Roth uses the old "corded electric appliance that pulls out of the wall just in time" gag but the chainsaw doesn't lose power soon enough as half of her face has the skin ripped off. Ha ha! This disgusting moment sends the man who does it running out of the room in disgust. He's eaten by dogs because he refuses to finish the kill. Hardy har har. And in a classic act of an idiot rationalizing their idiocy, the third girl is a multimillionaire (second act info that makes clear that a twist is coming) who flips the script on her would-be killer and then proceeds to cut his penis off with what seems to be a hedge clipper. More fun! Of course, there is little chance that this completely graphic act will make the R-rated release of the film because penises are more harshly rated by the MPAA than breasts and butts and skin removal. I guess Roth thinks that penis removal somehow balances the score. It doesn't, in great part because he plays it for shock laughs, while he treats the women like meat. In fact, I have no idea what will actually be in the release print of this film. But if there is anything close to what I saw in what was an internal version of the film, it should never have gotten an R. Moreover, I would expect this film, which is much more graphic and abusive than anything in any of the Saw movies or other horror porn released theatrically in America, to become the start of a very serious attack on Hollywood violence by the right wing. And sadly, it is impossible to defend except on a pure First Amendment basis. And let me be clear ... I think Rob Zombie is far more clever in doing the very graphic work he does. Peter Jackson's films are graphic, but not nasty in the way this film is. The Descent is an exercise in style and has limited value for me, but I see why it is embraced by some. Even Wayne Kramer's Running Scared, which featured cute child molesting murderers for no reason, is not as disgusting and meaningless as this grotesquerie. I had similar feelings about Wolf Creek, but I have to say ... it's not nearly as offensive as this thing. Why? Because it doesn't treat the subject as a joke. I have no need to see a relentless serial killer with no subtext of any interest in Wolf Creek. But the comedy version of Wolf Creek ... I really have a hard time finding the words. Grindhouse? A cartoon in comparison. Tarantino can be self-indulgent, but he actually seems to like women, and his characters don't do the darkest things they do without any human reason. We can fight about whether the little girl walking in after Uma kills her mommy is manipulative or brilliant or both ... but it is human. Hostel 2, particularly that scene, is not. I'm sure I will get a lot of e-mail and there will be a lot of talk on the blog defending this film. There always is. And I say, there is a line. This is a film that Lionsgate should be embarrassed about releasing. I have never said that before. I am not a cranky old man. I am not someone who says that there is anything that shouldn't be in a film, if there is a purpose. A Clockwork Orange is one of my very favorite films and it is still one of the most spiritually violent films ever made. No one fought harder for Fight Club and its ultimate message of finding your best self, in spite of the very eye catching violence. But this ... Lionsgate, as you might expect, isn't embarrassed ... at least, not publicly. When I arrived home from Seattle, there was a box (a few days old) with an expensive cut of meat sent from New York, a series of postcards - including one of Matarazzo hanging upside down, neither gagged nor bloody - and both notepads and a bandana with some form of bloody body parts that seem to include organs. I am not amused. I really like a lot of the people at Lionsgate. They are bright and talented and really well intended. This is the distributor of Grizzly Man and Deliver Us From Evil and Harvey Weinstein's too-hot-for-signatory films. But I am disgusted with the company for releasing the film and I will be disgusted if critics and writers and even crazy right wing talk show hosts don't stand up and do more than dismiss this as 'another one of those.' There must be a line in this world and Hostel II crosses it at the more basic level of humanity.

  • June 4, 2007, 3:34 p.m. CST

    so, uh

    by Magic Rat

    did this critic like the film or not?

  • June 4, 2007, 3:44 p.m. CST

    I'm SICK and FUCKING TIRED

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    of this stupid moron who keeps ruining every good talkback with his infantile comments.<p>Where's an admin when you need one...

  • June 4, 2007, 4:02 p.m. CST

    "Where's an admin when you need one...?"

    by MontyPigeon

    Blowing Eli Roth

  • June 4, 2007, 4:12 p.m. CST

    ONE BLACK BOX???

    by tehgreekhammer

    In response to this entire thread? <p> Ad the basis of that posting is to tell us we just dont get it because we didnt see some obscure torture wankfest that isnt even available on DVD? <p> whatev...

  • June 4, 2007, 4:13 p.m. CST

    ONE BLACK BOX???

    by tehgreekhammer

    In response to this entire thread? <p> Ad the basis of that posting is to tell us we just dont get it because we didnt see some obscure torture wankfest that isnt even available on DVD? <p> I cant wait for this movie to tank this weekend...

  • June 4, 2007, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Nice Arguement Brighteyes

    by liljuniorbrown

    "Everyone who hates Roth is jealous" Wow, got us there. I could care less about Roth. More than anything I would like him to do an AWESOME job on Stephen King's CELL, I just think (and I hope i'm wrong) that people like him and his inspiration Takeshi Miike have made films with no plot or value just sick gore and torture for the sake of shock value. Am I wrong? Like I posted before,seems like Fincher could make SEVEN which explored some seriously sick shit without beating us over the head with it. And for the jackass who wants to compare Rambo with Hostel, give us a break. People on this site are not antiviolence or pro censorship at all, we just don't want to see the protrayal of what seems like normal innocent women butchered for sport. It's easy to say that the majority of people that don't like these kind of films are "pussy's" or that we just don't get it but the truth is we just don't want it and this site is shoving it down our throats so they can get the red carpet treatment from hollywood players. Wow, some director had a beer with you in Austin,whoop dee fucking doo,don't mean you should shill for this bullshit.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Heartless?

    by ProfGriffin

    In my opinion, there is no heart here...but rather a desire to make a movie that horrifies, causes grown men and women to squirm in their seats and to FEEL for the characters that are being butchered SLOWLY on screen. Is the real reason that people have such a kneejerk reaction to this film is that they are offended and disturbed by it? They are taken out of their safety and gut punched by having this presented to them. To ask them to watch this is akin to seeing the rape sequence (not a scene but a long sequence of rape and torture and cruelty) from I Spit on your Grave over and over again Clockwork Orange style? Well, then Eli Roth did the very best job he could and succeeded didn't he? The flack that is being raised on this site is akin to Silent Night Deadly Night, in that it took an otherwise idiotic and poorly made cheap horror film and turned it into something that was on everyone's lips. SHOCK sells and there's no such thing as bad press. Ban it, pull it, condemn it...you'll just be lining the pockets, and creating an infamous film out of one that is nothing new really. That was my reaction to Cabin Fever..."the new face of horror" whatever. It was ok...I'd seen it all before. Big deal. But the hype that this guy gets... WOW!

  • June 4, 2007, 4:33 p.m. CST

    I hope Roth and Quint don't back out

    by Subovon

    <p class=MsoNormal>I just checked the site for that promised second sit-down, and I'm disappointed it's not up, yet. Not that anyone is on a deadline, I know....</p> <p class=MsoNormal>It's probably a waste of typing, but I just really think it's off the mark to expect this site to be objective. It's a fan site first and foremost. I don't come here to read the news. I've said it before: I think they're posting a lot of coverage on HOSTEL because Roth is happy to talk to them over and over again to sell his movie. Stallone got a lot of posts too. Those were great ones, too. I think they may even have been the best moments in the site's history, and <span class=GramE>it's</span> proof Sly is... well, sly.</p> <p class=MsoNormal>Think about it this way: remember when Harry got a call from James Cameron about Avatar? He put up a transcription of their conversation, pronto! Imagine if Cameron had called back 4 more times? Don't you think Harry would have added 4 posts to transcribe those conversations? I think so. It's to be expected from these boys, and personally, that's why I like the site. Not that I don't think one should come here without a bucket of salt. Au contraire,

  • June 4, 2007, 4:35 p.m. CST

    What it all comes down too:Jealous film school dropouts

    by BrightEyes

    I'll say it again, You people with such hate and distain for Eli Roth obiously have more problems than just his films. You see a guy like Eli Roth a guy who was just like the rest of you, someone who went to horror conventions got autographs and went on sites like this, he is after all living out the fanboy dream, he gets to make films for a living, hang out with Tarantino and other filmmakers he looked up too all his life oh and date beautiful women as of now it is Rosario Dawson. You people just dont like to see another person succeed, you wish you were in his place living out the dream, but your not , your on Ainc wasting your time talking about the guy who you so call "hate". You guy's want to be him and you can write back a great piece of writing calling me name's, trying todisprove what I said or what have you. In all your hearts you people know what you are and you know what Eli Roth is, so go ahead and be convincing on the internet but You know what you are and that is why you hate a guy who is doing what you would give anything to do. God I sincerely hope I dont become you guy's in the future cause that would be truely sad. also comparing Hostel to films like the birds or blue velvet is pointless, Eli Roth never set out to make those type of film's. It's hard to even read the shit you guy's say cause most of it is trite.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Eli Roth is dating Rosario Dawson?

    by Bones

    Wow. Finally a reason to hate him...<p> I Kid! I Keeeed!<p> Once again, thanks to everyone who participated in this Talkback. For a long time I have wondered the who's and why's of these movies appeal. And, although I still perfer a bit of restraint and artful editing in my fright-fests, I do respect peoples right to enjoy what they want--including Grand Guignol horrors...thanks for some insight.

  • June 4, 2007, 4:58 p.m. CST

    FUCK OFF!!! ROSARIO DAWSON?!?!?

    by spud mcspud

    If that's true... now I REALLY hate the Rothmeister. Grr.

  • June 4, 2007, 5:11 p.m. CST

    When Eli Roth starts putting a story in his films

    by MontyPigeon

    Then maybe film school dropouts will start getting jealous. As for now, they have nothing to be jealous or remotely worried about. In fact, if you are jealous of Eli Roth then you may as well end your life now.

  • June 4, 2007, 5:14 p.m. CST

    regular...

    by DukeDeMondo

    "It's pornography. Everyone on this site, except for the AICN staff (who are becoming increasing irrelevant as each day goes by) and .05% of the talkbacker community, are in agreement. " a more accurate appraisal of the situation would be -"it's pornography. Everyone on this site agrees, including some of the 0.9% who bothered to watch it first."

  • June 4, 2007, 6:02 p.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by CQuest

    just getting us back on topic

  • June 4, 2007, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Why this interview sucked

    by MrCere

    One thing I hate about the rise of internet writers who don't know dick about editing is that when they do a Q&A they feel they must write down every word and question. The ONLY purpose Capone explaining how and where and when he met Roth is to make Capone "cool." NOBODY CARES!!!!!!!!! Edit yourself and save me time or I may not read. As it was I ended up scanning much of the article instead of reading it and am less likely to read the next "Capone Classic".

  • June 4, 2007, 6:06 p.m. CST

    A Porno has more story than Hostel 2

    by MontyPigeon

    Don't try and flatter Hostel 2 by comparing it to porn. The porn directors of old have more skills than Mr Roth when telling a story. Also, a better soundtrack to boot.

  • June 4, 2007, 6:12 p.m. CST

    In fairness to Capone . . .

    by MrCere

    I generally like the guy's stuff. I just wouldn't expect to have anybody think that I care that he rode in a car one time with somebody, especially when he has all these burning questions and time issues.

  • June 4, 2007, 6:32 p.m. CST

    It's funny!

    by the darkman

    that people are accusing Eli Roth of using violence for the sake of violence, but yet there's about a hundred other horror movies that are gorier, more perverse,and yet I don't see any of you attacking those directors. Even though flawed I enjoyed Cabin Fever, and Hostel. Neither one is actually that gory, and even through the flaws the plots were interesting. I can see if someone, or if most of you didn't enjoy it, and that's fine, but to come on here to bash the man seems a little overblown. Why waste your time if you truly hate this man, and his films. Seems pointless. Prove me wrong about the gore, I dare anyone. Neither one of his films would crack the top hundred.

  • June 4, 2007, 7:02 p.m. CST

    True Torture

    by mr dark

    If you want true torture try wading through this talkback... If you don't like Eli's shit don't patronize it , don't rent it , and for fucks sake don't tell anyone else you really actually like it

  • June 4, 2007, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Truly Terrible

    by bluemcpoo

    The worst crime a film like this can commit is to be boring. How one person can fit 75 minutes of needless crap in a 93 minute run-time is beyond me. What a hack, and what an awful movie. I can't believe the Roth manmember gobbling that goes on here.

  • June 4, 2007, 7:52 p.m. CST

    BrightEyes

    by FuzzyWhisper

    You certainly seem to have an idealized view of Roth's life. Who's really the jealous one, I wonder?

  • June 4, 2007, 8:21 p.m. CST

    Lots Of Immature Assholes On Here

    by CondomWrapper

    Like those lamers spamming "FUCK HOSTEL" over and over like a couple of ten-year olds. Get a fucking life guys, if you hate Hostel so much then why the hell would you want to waste time reading an article with Eli Roth and/or posting nonsense in the talkback thread. We're not all haters Roth, some of us, like me, think your movies are fantastic.

  • June 4, 2007, 8:42 p.m. CST

    Simple

    by BrightEyes

    people who are "educated in film" or the rest of you haters dont like the guy because he is getting paid money to make film's your JEALOUS ACCEPT IT!!!!, you cant stand the guy cause he is EVERYTHING YOU ALL DREAMT OF BEING BUT YOU'RE NOT.

  • June 4, 2007, 9:03 p.m. CST

    What about the Devil's Rejects?

    by Chopper Sullivan

    It seemed to be universally praised by a majority of the talkbackers when it came out and I don't remember this kind of angry backlash against it. I liked it quite a bit but I found the motel scenes to be way more disturbing than anything I saw in Hostel. Not only does Zombie throw in a lot of sick shit for cheap shock value, but also includes a lot of goofball comedy and has the gall to try and make you root for the psycho killers. So, does the Devil's Rejects count as torture porn too?

  • June 4, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST

    If there ever was a piece of irredeemable crap it's

    by TORTURE PWN

    THE DEVIL'S REJECTS.An hour and a half (give or take)of the most derivitive hodge podge "greatest hits" of horror/exploitation set to the "greatest hits" soundtrack of the 70's.Everything in that movie was stolen from another.

  • June 4, 2007, 10:08 p.m. CST

    Why other films don't get bashed

    by lecter1914

    Probably because they are at least entertaining with likeable characters, good direction, and good writing. Yeah, The Hills Have Eyes was extremely gory and violent....and it was fun and exciting, entertaining, well acted, and (something Hostel 1 and Cabin Fever weren't) GOOD

  • June 4, 2007, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Damn You Eli Roth

    by darrenspool

    I really enjoyed House of 1000 corpses and the Devil's Rejects. They're mindless crap. But fascinating. Agreed, Hostel didn't have any likeable characters - that is, they were typical braindead teens.

  • June 4, 2007, 11:51 p.m. CST

    New definition of TORTURE PORN

    by Nezzer6364

    (n) having to watch anything Eli Roth makes.

  • June 5, 2007, 12:21 a.m. CST

    I eat meat, I just don't want to see animals die.

    by veebeeyes

    "People on this site are not antiviolence or pro censorship at all, we just don't want to see the protrayal of what seems like normal innocent women butchered for sport. You don't want to see it. Okay. You know, every once in a while I meet someone who has a very negative opinion of hunting. Hell, not even hunting. My father raises poultry for food, and I have done a few kills with him. So this one time I was talking with some bitch and I mentioned that I'd helped to slaughter one of my dad's ducks. And she gets all upset and angry and saying stuff like "how can you do that? That's horrible!" Here's the thing. We were having lunch together and she was eating a fucking chicken sandwich. See, that reminds me a lot of this talkback. The mentality of a person like that is something along the lines of "I am fine with the consequences of my dietary preferences...as long as I don't have to SEE those consequences." Which I frankly think is morally cowardly. Likewise, if I watch Armageddon, I might marvel at the special effects as Paris gets wiped out by a giant asteroid. What I DON'T see is babies getting cooked alive because they are just outside of the "instant death" zone. Which is fine. I don't have to think about pain and death every time I eat a hamburger. I can tell you though that if I was NEVER willing to contemplate that kind of stuff, then I shouldn't be eating chickens and cows. When you see someone murder a pig and then slaughter it, you don't fucking call him a sick bastard when you're eating a BLT sandwich. What you do (or should do) is ask yourself why it's somehow okay to eat ham and bacon if you don't have to personally see the horrors that go into every "product."

  • June 5, 2007, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Long Live the New Flesh!

    by bswise

    Forget Roth and his ilk. There's a new 24/7 cable TV torture/snuff reality show that you HAVE TO SEE!! It's not fake either, it's the REAL DEAL!! They make it in Pittsburg, although it's only available by pirate satellite. WARNING: Prolonged viewing may cause your TV to undulate, vintage Debbie Harry to be strangled in a red dress, and massive squirming tumors to take over your body and brain. But, enjoy! The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.

  • June 5, 2007, 1:01 a.m. CST

    Are you drunk veebeeyes?

    by Chopper Sullivan

    Cause I have no fucking clue what the hell that's supposed to mean. I mean I'm drunk, but if I was sober I don't think I could decipher that. Keep up the good chicken killing work though.

  • June 5, 2007, 2 a.m. CST

    Fuck Crash?

    by The Dum Guy

    ...I just want to say it about a year and half too late.

  • June 5, 2007, 2:29 a.m. CST

    BrightEyes

    by Chilli815

    You know what, deep down I bet a lot of us are jealous at Eli Roth's positioning. Not his talent (because there's little), his position. He's out there making movies that can influence people, and he goes and makes stuff like Cabin Fever.

  • June 5, 2007, 3:15 a.m. CST

    BEST NEWS EVER GUYS!!!!

    by BrightEyes

    Today I won tickets to see Hostel 2 this Thursday night with the cast and Eli Roth and after it end's there is gonna be a Q and A!!!! I'm just in a good mood now! you guys are okay in my book. and chilli I wont argue with that, Im sure a lot of people who hate him dont see how great his film's truely are. HOSTEL2 GoodDAy

  • June 5, 2007, 3:15 a.m. CST

    BEST NEWS EVER GUYS!!!!

    by BrightEyes

    Today I won tickets to see Hostel 2 this Thursday night with the cast and Eli Roth and after it end's there is gonna be a Q and A!!!! I'm just in a good mood now! you guys are okay in my book. and chilli I wont argue with that, Im sure a lot of people who hate him dont see how great his film's truely are. HOSTEL2 GoodDAy

  • June 5, 2007, 3:15 a.m. CST

    sry for double post

    by BrightEyes

    yeah

  • June 5, 2007, 3:18 a.m. CST

    off topic

    by BrightEyes

    I saw eagle vs shark at the screenwriting seriese , it was pretty oright kinda like napolean dinomite but rated R,

  • June 5, 2007, 6:56 a.m. CST

    BrightEyes. Dude.

    by YND

    Are you messing with us? I find your treatment of the written English language far more horrifying than anything Eli Roth has ever done. (Based on your posts, here's a tip: if your instinct is to use an apostrophe... maybe hold off. If your instinct is to omit an apostrophe ("Im", "wont", "dont", "cant")? Toss one in there.) Please please PLEASE tell me that you're a pre-teen and just haven't had the benefit of an introductory English class...

  • June 5, 2007, 7:32 a.m. CST

    And now that I'm done being the grammar police...

    by YND

    ... as for your theory that the people railing against Roth are just "jealous" and "dont like to see another person succeed", I'll grant you that there are probably some people on here who fall into that camp. But it ain't the majority, fella. I, for one, LOVE to see people find success by producing good work. (And yeah, of course that's subjective.) I'm really happy KNOCKED UP made a bunch of money last weekend because I think Rogen and Apatow have always done really good work. I love that Charlie Kaufman has found success by staying true to his own unique voice. Would I like to have that kind of success? Yep. Do I hate those guys for it? Nope, because I'm not 8 years old. Do I think HOSTEL is reprehensible and that the world would be a better place without it? Yeah, I kinda do. In my opinion, it does nothing but debase. I haven't seen HOSTEL II, but from the play-by-plays I've read, it doesn't sound like Mr. Roth has found anything more transcendent or ennobling in his second gleeful wallow through the filth than he did in the first. That might be okay if the film was artful or imparted some truth... but thus far, Roth's films have been art-free and phony. His stuff is, of course, just the symptom, not the cause. The problem with American movies these days isn't that there are movies like HOSTEL, it's that there are audiences for HOSTEL. I wish Hollywood was able to make more money appealing to our better natures than our baser ones. That said, I hope you have a great time at the screening on Thursday. I saw the first HOSTEL at a Q&A screening when it came out and my favorite part, by far, was being able to leave before Roth took the stage.

  • June 5, 2007, 7:57 a.m. CST

    ynd

    by BrightEyes

    I love you too my man.

  • June 5, 2007, 9:58 a.m. CST

    FUCK HOSTEL

    by vicnameless

    FUCK HOSTEL

  • June 5, 2007, 10:40 a.m. CST

    Wow, he really is a Cocktimus...

    by Bones

    So, if that is Eli Roth, what does he think of this reaction? What does he see as the benefits of his films? What does he like about horror? Will he ever answer a fucking question?

  • June 5, 2007, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Pathetic

    by the darkman

    that's what this talkback is! how you could spend all day bitching, and yelling about one movie is beyond me. You haven't even seen the fucking movie yet your bitching about it. wow! I know this is a place to express your opinions, and debate film, but if you hate the man that much why even give anymore attention to the subject besides one post. Move on people there's other movies to discuss!!!

  • June 5, 2007, 11:28 a.m. CST

    This is why I come here every day!

    by cheezwhipper

    Just a big "thanks" to everyone on this talkback. I really thought I was going crazy in my outrage at the huge amount of Hostel love. I tried to NOT see it. I heard all about it, read some reviews, and decided-this is not my cuppa splatter. Flash forward a year, and I accidentally stumble on the eye removal scene complete on Spike. Made me ill. Made me kind of angry that I couldn't even channel surf without coming across something I tried to avoid. So, to not be a hypocrite, I watched the whole damn thing. And it was crap. Not as offensive as I had built it up to be after having just the "money shot" being spoiled for me, but crap none the less. I freakin' love horror movies. Gory horror movies. But useless, profit motivated, lowest common denominator bullshit just pisses me off. Burn those workprints. Stand in front of the theater Friday night with a box marked "Free (sick) Puppies!". Fuck this shit up, my friends!

  • June 5, 2007, 11:36 a.m. CST

    If you take just two words from my last post

    by cheezwhipper

    Fuck Hostel

  • June 5, 2007, 1:24 p.m. CST

    cookylamoo, true

    by The Dum Guy

    psychologically there is no qoute "normal" person, we all have our kinks, so to say someone else is sick for being different than you (just for enjoying a fictional story)is just being a slight bit ignorant.