… listening to some 16-year-old kid lecture his parents on the demands of 12-step rehabilitation is enough to make anyone reach for the mute button. …TV Guide says:
… Overwritten and underacted (by the kids anyway), it strings out its weekly climactic shockers — some of them truly unnerving — with artery-hardening blobs of moldy adolescent whining. …Entertainment Weekly gives it a “C-plus” and says:
… an un-eerie, under-soapy misfire … Here, the characters yak a lot but say nothing, which is either Williamson's commentary on the over-wired, self-involved e-generation, or...mediocre dialogue. …Variety says:
… breaks zero new ground, recycling the formula that powered past high-school soaps. It's all in the execution, ultimately, and even with an accomplished cast, four episodes in, it's at best a dry heat. … The heat, after all, can drive people to do crazy things -- like watching a warmed-over teen soap.The Hollywood Reporter says:
… mostly silly, pretentious, soap opera-style TV with an escapist mentality and the subtlety of an avalanche. …The New York Times says:
… Remove the sex, sociopathology and possible filicide, and you will still be left with a quite inspiring home design show. … The clichéd aesthetic choice of so many single art directors, midcentury Modern isn’t necessarily the easiest signifier of typical American family life, and that is precisely the point. …The Los Angeles Times says:
… While much of it is silly, corny or clichéd and relies more on easy effects — the power ballad, the overwrought sex scene — than on the subtle explorations of people and place that the pilot seems to promise, the series is, on the whole, highly digestible summer fun. …Chicago Tribune says:
… This is one of those only-on-TV communities where the main characters are constantly thrown together at country club parties and around pools; they speak in the self-conscious, therapy-driven patter that has become old hat on TV. It may have seemed fresh a dozen years ago, but it’s turning into just another TV cliche. … “Hidden Palms” will never be mistaken for classic-era “O.C.,” not yet, anyway. All things considered, there’s too little to latch on to here. Handley, while easy on the eyes, isn’t enough to build a show around, and the adults, and more than a few of the kids, remain ciphers. And the truth is, we’ve been here before. …The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says:
… A perfectly serviceable teen drama … by no means great television, but in a summer of reality shows and reruns, you could do a lot worse. …The Seattle Post-Intelligencer says:
There are some series that telegraph their potential for greatness within the very first episode. The CW's "Hidden Palms" is not one of those series. Indeed, this represents the complete opposite of that idea -- a show that starts out feeling like it could be a guilty pleasure but ends up being something you want to hold face down in a full kiddie pool. …8 p.m. Wednesday. The CW.
May 30, 2007, 6:36 a.m. CST
As long as it's not called Hairy Palms
May 30, 2007, 7:12 a.m. CST
That's why you all continue to watch and "No", I loved Scream -but the sequels DID suck. Courtney gradually turns into a skeleton throughout the series. \Truly frightening.
May 30, 2007, 7:14 a.m. CST
Got cancelled for shit shows like this???
May 30, 2007, 7:20 a.m. CST
A friend of mine convinced me to watch another one of these kind of shows (I forget which one), based on the fact that the girls were hot. And yes, the girls were hot. Extremely so. But I just couldn't take the show. I couldn't sit through it. I hated all the characters and their "problems". About a month ago, I was home sick and watched a bit of an old Dawson's Creek show. Good Lord, I had forgotten just how bad that show really was. That show is more of a fantasy than Lord of the Rings. Damn teenagers!
May 30, 2007, 7:23 a.m. CST
That's an oxymoron!
May 30, 2007, 7:24 a.m. CST
It took all these stereotypes from slasherfilms and explained them to the young audience, who probably has never seen these films. And it was difficult to find out who the killer was.<br> And CURSED got Weinsteinated. I've heard that the original screenplay was much better than the shooting script.<br> I've never seen DAWSON'S CREEK, but even if that show ran for years, I wouldn't say that Williamson made a big career. He had his 15 minutes of fame after SCREAM, but when the 90's ended, his days as superstar-writer ended too. He's like Joe Ezterhas! He wrote one script that made him famous, but then...nothing.
May 30, 2007, 7:27 a.m. CST
The title of the show is even shit. What is wrong with Kevin Williamson and his fascination with teens. issues much. any way Scream was like the horror movie of the 90s so how can you say its nothing and 2 was entertaining especially the fact the killer was Billys mother, and I know what you did last summer had its moments, but yeah everything else hes done has sucked, Dawsons lol, Cursed haha.
May 30, 2007, 7:30 a.m. CST
by Kid Z
...showing up in Jim Belushi's pool? No Angie Dickinson yanking out someone's eyeballs? Dang!
May 30, 2007, 7:44 a.m. CST
Kevin Williamson is a no talent hack. Always has been. Now if I can just get you to see the light with Wes Craven. Although Craven meant well when he started. It was only when he started getting noticed and started getting funded that everything went to his head and he started sucking. Williamson has been falling into his career since drama class in college.
May 30, 2007, 7:56 a.m. CST
but i agree with Herc's assessment of the rest of the Williamson ouvre. those last three - Cursed, Wasteland, Glory days, i ain't even heard of.
May 30, 2007, 10:05 a.m. CST
by Mister Man
He and Mark Burnett should start a club, or something. Williamson being the senior member, of course.
May 30, 2007, 10:26 a.m. CST
Scream did too... as did Scream 2. Cursed was hella fun as well. And Dawsons Creek was the bizomb growing up, though really what the hell did Kevin Williamson have to do with it after the first season? I hated the character Dawson though. What a whiney good for nothing horrible friend and person in general.
May 30, 2007, 10:46 a.m. CST
Scream is a fuckin classic. It subverted the genre, whilst managing to be both funny and scary. Just because there were a bunch of shitty copycats that raped the hell out of the post modern horror slant, doesn’t mean Scream didn't rule. Williamson is still a talented and original screenwriter, who despite some shit (Cursed) still knows how to write character and dialogue superbly. So get off the fuckin Scream hammering bandwagon and say something original.
May 30, 2007, 10:54 a.m. CST
i bought into the lie that Williamson was talented, I bought into the Scream lie, I watched all 3 Screams in the theatre (the third to see Jay and Silent Bob), I even saw the Faculty...then came the Dawson. I couldn't even make it through one episode, couldn't stand it. His other shows, exactly the same. Can I ask, how many of his char. will be gay/turn gay on this show? wasn't there like 6 gay char. in The Creek?
May 30, 2007, 11 a.m. CST
Though I still say Dawson was definitely gay as well. And that show kicked ass, mainly because whiney Dawson didn't get the girl afterall... not even her virginity... HAHHAHAHA.
May 30, 2007, 11:59 a.m. CST
SCREAM was a good, violent, rated-R, slasher. Amid all the PG-13 lameness of the genre it had some real tension and some real gore. Hell, there's even that quick shot of an eviscerated (sp?) Charlie's Angel. I agree with you on the rest of that stuff, but the first SCREAM was a good time.
May 30, 2007, 12:02 p.m. CST
THE FACULTY?! That was AWFUL. I mean, so was CURSED, but having written BOTH of those?! Yikes.
May 30, 2007, 12:08 p.m. CST
One of the greatest guilty pleasures ever. Ah to be 16 again...i'll get my coat.
May 30, 2007, 12:12 p.m. CST
Sonny Bono put a hex on Palm Springs and now if there isn't a gay twist on whatever is going on in town it will fail. Unless it's Indian gaming.
May 30, 2007, 12:20 p.m. CST
"Wasn’t “Scream” a whole lot of nothing?" NO WAY! "Wasn’t “Scream 2” a whole lot more of the same?" LOVED IT (Scream 3 too) Didn’t “I Know What You Did Last Summer” suck? It's a wayyyyy underated slasher movie. I think it's pretty good. "Wasn’t “Dawson’s Creek” a nonstop chunk of nonsense?" I think the first two seasons were great. "Didn’t “Cursed” suck?" Yes, you're right here.
May 30, 2007, 12:41 p.m. CST
At the time of Scream, the slasher film market was dying. Jason, Michael Meyers, and Freddy were getting tired and becoming inadvertent self parodies of themselves. Most slasher flicks were coming and going out of movie theaters without much notice even from more advid slasher flick fans. Scream came in and turned the genre on it's ear. Williamson's genius in that flick was realizing that teenagers of the day were raised on Friday the 13th, Halloween, and Nightmare on Elm Street and that they would be far more saavy than the moron teenagers of films past. The movie was pretty well written and executed. It is a classic in the slasher film genre. Williamson followed that up with basically a going through the motions career. But you cannot trash Scream because it was a classic. I will also give him a pass for Scream 2 because that movie went into massive rewrites when the script was leaked on the Internet. I never saw the original script so I don't know how good it was. Scream 2 was a decent movie, but nowhere near the first.
May 30, 2007, 1:04 p.m. CST
ok, so there was only ONE main gay character in Dawson's Creek, like I said I never really followed it, but I just remember (growing up, living and still living in Northwest Kansas) a big deal about this gay char. on a TV show and just multiplied it. Either that or the fact that my bisexual friend Travis loved Dawson's Creek.<P>re:The Faculty, yeah Williamson wrote that, it was when he was going through his stage of writing every kind of horror movie out there, that was his inviasion of the body snatchers. RR did what he could but it was a pretty predestrian flick<P>speaking of the Faculty and Dawson's what was up with Kevin Williamson and students and teachers having sex, was there an element of that in Scream? I remember enjoying Scream but really the only part that stands out was the girl getting killed by the garage door while in the cat door...always thought that was cool. Who was that, Rose McGowen?
May 30, 2007, 1:18 p.m. CST
I just found these on-line, seem to give an insight into the show a little bit more than anyplace else I've read... -ED http://blog.meevee.com/my_weblog/2007/05/meevee_exclusiv_6.html#more Taylor Handley http://blog.meevee.com/my_weblog/2007/05/meevee_exclusiv_5.html#more Kevin Williamson
May 30, 2007, 1:18 p.m. CST
What were they again?
May 30, 2007, 1:21 p.m. CST
Or scary, really? SCREAM 3 was kind of funny, but I don't think Williamson wrote that one.
May 30, 2007, 1:52 p.m. CST
...was brilliant. You just can't trash scream it totally revived the horror genre when it was dead. It was funny, smart, stylish, well-plotted and was intense...you cant say that about most horror's today, hell you cant say that about many films today.
May 30, 2007, 2:29 p.m. CST
trite ripoff of psycho. The good thing about that movie was Neve Campbell kicking some ass. A woman like that makes me wanna take a shower.
May 30, 2007, 2:34 p.m. CST
by The Real MiraJeff
Herc, buddy, slow down. Back up. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You just stomped all over my childhood. First of all, Scream is a masterpiece. It completely changed the genre. It was revolutionary and brilliant. Even I, AS A 12 YEAR-OLD KID, could recognize that, because the second time I saw the film, before the hype exploded well into its release, I brought in a tape recorder and recorded chunks of dialogue. It was that good, that smart. And Dawson's Creek... fucking amazing show. I've seen every episode of the first five seasons. It too, set a new standard for teen television dramas. You think there'd be an OC without a Capeside? Dawson's introduced four pretty solid actors. Holmes might be the weak link because she hasn't done anything good since the show, but obviously Tom Cruise saw something in her. Williamson has always been a bit pretentious and reliant on too many pop culture references, and he writes teen dialogue in this analytic psychobabble kinda way, but somehow he makes it works. He doesn't dumb down his characters like so many 40 year-olds writing teen material do. Hidden Palms looks like it blows but I'm not here to defend Kevin or his lame new show. I'm sticking up for quite possibly, two of my favorite movies/TV shows of all time. Cursed and Tingle were both horrible movies that were among the worst released in their respective years. But you can't say Dawson's was nonsense because to me, it was pretty much the only show that made sense to me in 9th grade. And Scream a whole lot of nothing? Did you see that ending coming Herc? I can recite that movie word for word. That mini-rant above is just crazy man. I frankly don't get it at all.
May 30, 2007, 2:58 p.m. CST
by Neo Zeed
Scream was excellent and the 2 seasons that Williamson was on Dawson's Creek, was very good (The show went downhill when he left). The Faculty was good also. You're a weirdo Herc.
May 30, 2007, 3:10 p.m. CST
by Kid Z
... but remember that bit when that actor who played Dawson hosted SNL and Don Pardo stalked him through the whole episode. Classic! Ah... the 90s... I'm getting nostalgic. Heard raves are making a comeback, though... maybe there's hope in the world after all...
May 30, 2007, 3:17 p.m. CST
by jimmy rabbitte
Once upon a time, people got decked out in all of their finery; and made their way to fancy city theaters to watch live actors perform the days most popular productions. These days we, in somewhat less formal attire, head off to our local multiplexes to take in the big current Hollywood offerings.<p> Cinema going is one of the most communal of experiences. Like most shared experiences attending films, whether it be in large groups of friends or with just a significant other, has the common effect of generating nostalgia. So often times, as we look back on the film (or films) in question, we aren't just remembering the movie; but we are recalling all of the things that were going in our lives, at the time. Take AICN's look back to the summer of '82 as a case in point.<p> These feelings of nostalgia, I think, sometimes shade the way we recall how good a film actually was. For example when I think back to the summer of '86 I fondly remember films like Top Gun, Ferris Bueller's Day Off and Howard the Duck... oh wait, scratch that last one. The summer of '86 was a lot of fun for me. I was 15 years old and having the time of my life. I particularly remember, between my girlfriend at the time, and our larger group of friends we saw Top Gun countless times at the theater. We always had a great time; but to watch that movie now... I wonder what it was we saw in that thing. It doesn't lessen the memories of the good times I had; but I'm a lot more aware of the fact that sometimes the events and people around you can shade your perception of a piece of entertainment. As years go by I wonder if people are going to stop being so kind with their praise of the Scream series and Dawson's Creek. Perhaps not... but it could happen, just try getting through a viewing of Top Gun tonight or this weekend... *that* could be how some of those 90's films and TV shows end up making you feel in years to come. <p> Here ends my rambling.
May 30, 2007, 3:34 p.m. CST
We used a scene between two characters from "Wasteland" in a TV/Film class. The dialogue went nowheresville and didn't make you care for the characters. In short, they were "pretty white people with problems. Give me a break!
May 30, 2007, 3:58 p.m. CST
I liked that miniseries up until someone decided that they needed a happy ending. Buncha wimps.
May 30, 2007, 4 p.m. CST
He's like Tim Robbins in The Hudsucker Proxy. That kid's got a lotta moxie.
May 30, 2007, 4:39 p.m. CST
funny cuz its sad
May 30, 2007, 4:40 p.m. CST
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer? Seriously? There's a paper named the "Intelligencer"? Now thats just funny cuz its funny. Wow
May 30, 2007, 4:42 p.m. CST
to read the recaps on Mighty Big TV (now TWOP) caustic wit in the extreme!
May 30, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST
by Leafy McPlantsalot
Were great. The first one was a classic, the second was almost better but fell apart at the end. he didn't write scream 3 and yeah, pretty much everything after that was awful. but you got to give him scream 1 and 2. People who have done less have lasted longer.
May 30, 2007, 4:51 p.m. CST
The trailers suggest it's a horror series, about demons or something. Just very badly done promos, or am I missing the point?
May 30, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST
I work at a newspaper, how can I get screeners for these shows, I'd love to do something like that. Also if I do will Herc post my comments? I can see it now "Everett Robert-Colby Free Press 'I just wasted 2 hours of my life'"
May 30, 2007, 6:15 p.m. CST
at the time that David Wechter and Bruce Kimmel actually wrote The Faculty, but it was credited to Williamson because he was popular. And yes, the first Scream is a classic but after all the ripoffs and spoofs, people started to bash Scream as well. It doesn't deserve to be put in the same bin with garbage like Urban Legends and Disturbing Behavior. From what I remember, the original draft of Scream 2 was amazing, it would've been just as good as the first. Some things that were only mentioned in the movie were resolved in that version, like that "the killer is a copycat" subplot that was forgotten in the movie. And it had a really kickass ending full of twists and turns and it ended on a cliffhanger. Then they changed the whole thing after it was leaked.
May 30, 2007, 8:12 p.m. CST
interesting, I never heard that about Wechter and Kimmel. Is that why RR never did do a commentary for the Faculty, or a film school or anything?
May 30, 2007, 10:50 p.m. CST
why the fuck am i getting so old? scream was a classic herc, no denying it.
May 30, 2007, 11:20 p.m. CST
by Alonzo Mosely
'cause for Herc to be this worked up it must be related to Buffy somehow...
May 31, 2007, 12:37 a.m. CST
...another teen dramady that sucks, what else is new? Where's my new Futurama?!
May 31, 2007, 4:16 a.m. CST
I know nobody ever agrees with me on this, but I think H20 is the best attempt at a HALLOWEEN sequel, even if the best part is the last 20 minutes or so. Williamson didn't write it, but he wrote an outline for it and I suspect that most of the things that are cool about it were his ideas, because it's the kind of things he's into: the idea that Laurie Strode is traumatized, alcoholic and going through therapy because of her past with Michael, the fact that she's always running, and that at the very moment she makes a clean escape she finally realizes she can't run anymore, so she goes back into the private school, locks the gate, grabs an ax and goes to find Michael and chop the motherfucker's head off. (and god damn it it wasn't a paramedic, it was the real Michael, I don't care what part 8 says).<p> So I will give Williamson credit for that. And SCREAM is pretty good too. Way better than this generation's postmodern slasher movie BEHIND THE MASK LESLIE VERNON RISE OF THE WHINY SISSY.<p> But that's as far as I will go to defend the guy because everything else I've seen by him is painful. The worst is probaly his directorial debut/finale TEACHING MRS. TINGLE starring academy award winner Helen Mirren. It's so embarrassing to watch because it's clearly written as part of a personal vendetta he has against some high school teacher who told him his writing sucked. But ironically the movie proves that his teacher was right. Which I don't think was his intention.
May 31, 2007, 4:58 a.m. CST
Scream (the first one) was a great movie. The first time i saw it i did guessed one of the two murderers. The thing that gave it away was the music (particularly the song "Drop dead gorgeous" by Republica. It goes something like: "I know my ex-boyfriend lies Oh he does it every time. It's just his permanent disguise Yeah yeah but he's drop dead gorgeous". Just pay attention the next time you watch it) Anyway apart from the movie " The Faculty" which was kinda okay i didn't like anything he has written since.
May 31, 2007, 5:10 a.m. CST
Oh yes. Yes it did.
May 31, 2007, 6:13 a.m. CST
I love how a horror film that subverts the cliches and has characters who don't slump into the pitfalls of the genre can be deemed lacking. Its a great film.
May 31, 2007, 8:28 a.m. CST
by Kid Z
...Cool! Thought I was the only person who saw that thing. The tacked-on happy ending DID suck. The comic in Details it was based on was better... even though, really, it made almost no sense. Freaky thing is, the story took place in...2007! Damn! Where the f*** are my virtual reality sunglasses?!!?
May 31, 2007, 11:09 a.m. CST
ever release Wild Palms on DVD I know they did on video and I was always going to check it out but never did. I remember seeing oh the first and maybe the 2nd eps but for some reason, parents, summer camp, church, prevented me from seeing the rest.<P>Does anyone remember the Maximum Bob miniseries thing they did with...Beau bridges? I know that has nothing to do with Kevin Williamson but thinking of Wild Palms made me think of other good/strange minis
May 31, 2007, 11:29 a.m. CST
Since, I love all 3 Scream movies, Dawsons Creek, Teaching Mrs Tingle, The Faculty, Cursed, and IKWYDLS...I will probably like this? Good deal. I think its a good bet that other teenagers/young 20somethings will like it too. Most television critics are in their 40s/50s and these shows are not aimed at them, except the perverts who oogle the girls boobs.
May 31, 2007, 6:24 p.m. CST
by The Real MiraJeff
Trupson, very interesting comment. I remember how closely guarded those Scream sequel scripts were. Crazy. It's good to see most people if not everyone in this TB defend Scream. If there was ever a movie worth sticking up for, that's as good as any. I have ZERO problems with it. And Vern, again, thank you for mentioning the craptastic-ness of Leslie Vernon. I was excited to see it after reading all the glowing reviews on the site but it was truly one of the worst films I've seen all year. Absolutely dreadful. And I second everything you said about Tingle. A miserable film. I can't remember a thing about it besides it sucking balls. Cursed was pretty rank too but I chalk that up to Wes and the suits who wanted a PG-13. Kev, I'm still a fan. I'll bleed Capeside blue til the day I die. But isn't TV deluged by enough sunny Dawson's wannabe's? Do we really need more shows geared to the MTV audience, who inexplicably watch countless hours of shit like Laguna Beach and The Hills. You're better than this Kev, you really are. I hope you're working on Scream 4, a prequel focusing on Cotton Weary and Maureen Prescott's relationship, with Dakota Fanning as a young Tatum.
May 31, 2007, 6:33 p.m. CST
by The Real MiraJeff
I'm pretty sure you can chalk the lyrics of that Republica song up to coincidence. I don't think that song was a "clue" to solving the identity of the killer. It's always pretty clear that Billy's the killer, if only because of that early scene when his phone drops and Dewey shows up holding the costume, and Billy reckons he scared the guy away. Like Billy wouldn't have seen or heard the guy leave. Please. Plus he had motive cuz Sid wouldn't give it up. The genius of it comes with Stu being the second killer, and then the elaborate reveal in the kitchen about Billy's dad banging Sid's mom, then having Stu and Billy slice each other up to pass themselves off as victims. Kevin Spacey also used that idea in the excellent and very underrated Albino Alligator. But back to the music, the Scream trilogy had a pretty decent soundtrack. You could pick a few solid songs off each CD and make a pretty good mix. But I'm still not sure it would be better than the I Know What You Did... or Faculty soundtracks, both of which are pretty damn strong considering they're not period films, which always have the best soundtracks (Boogie Nights, Forrest Gump, Casino et al).
May 31, 2007, 8:06 p.m. CST
is the first scream was the only good one...the sequels were made mainly because the first one was such a surprise....i never much liked neve cambell(i think thats her name) cursed was a steaming pile of garbage...it was like "werwolves in beverly hills 90210"....the faculty was actually quite entertaining...i know what u did last summer suffered from the scream problem.....didnt need a sequel...the first one was perfect. jason vanderbeek sucked in dawsons creek....much better in Varsity Blues.......ill give "hidden palms" an episode or two to catch my attention....if not then i wont watch..
May 31, 2007, 9:51 p.m. CST
Anyone who disagrees with that is going to be hit in the face with a shovel.
June 1, 2007, 12:08 a.m. CST
and yup, it was horrible. and 2ndly, I thought it was supposed to be about vampires or monsters, and there was none of that. and IMHO only one of the girls was even slightly attractive, so... I'm even more pissed now that Veronica Mars was canceled for this 100% poopy drivel... DAMN YOU CW DAMN YOU <p> BRING BACK VERONICA MARS
June 1, 2007, 6:08 a.m. CST
The Creek pioneered the likes of The OC, giving teenagers actual character and intelligence and not speaking down to them in a patronizingly stupid 90210 way. It was the first show to do that. And Scream will forever remain one of my favorite movies. That was Craven crafting an absolute fuckin' masterpiece of the modern genre that has since delved into a Saw-ish pool of inept made horror. It’s a classic, full fucking stop.