Cool News
Michael Moore's SICKO trailer hits the web!
Hey folks, Harry here... I find it amazing when I read talkbacks from people that don't seem to think there's any sort of health care crisis in America. But then - this country has done an amazing job of conditioning its people into thinking we've got the best healthcare options in the world... but a common broken leg can set ya back $27,000 - that's pretty outrageous. Don't ya think? I can't wait to check out Michael Moore's latest doc, it's a helluvalot cheaper than getting gassed at the hospital.
-
+ Expand All
-
but from what I've heard he seems to insinuate Cuba's is better. Umm no.
-
gives a fuck about michael moore
-
I'm Canadian and he seems to believe we have the 2nd greatest system in the world. It's not as fucked up as you folks have in the U.S., but there are still problems.
-
Who's own writers complain that they have no health insurance. Harry doesn't help quint, moriarity, et al with their health insurance but then bitches that the government doesn't pay for it. What a fucking joke. Oh and a 27,000 "common broken arm"? Care to follow that up with any facts? I guess I can play that game too. I am glad I am not in Canada where the mortality rate for the common cold is 67% due to the long wait for medication. Look, both are equally supported with evidence and fact. Nice try harry.
-
Go get 'em Micahel!
-
the way he effortlessly and so thoroughly skewers the establishment. the cuba bit is annoyingly contrived though (especially 'cuz cuba is ranked just below the US on that list he cites).
-
Firstly, error message - We are sorry, this clip cannot be shown in your area. I live in Scotland. Secondly, I have a dread that he is going to talk up the NHS we have here. Sure it is free, but it is far from perfect. Wasn't really interested in 9/11, but this I am.
-
Is the greatest fiction director working today.
-
sucks dudes off.
-
I'm from his hometown. Everyone here knows he's queer as all heck. Some of his boy chasing exploits are legendary around town.
They say he likes tall skinny blondes. -
EXACTLY - AICN doesn't make enough to do Healthcare for its employees - We're working on it. We all need it. But it's a difficult and costly process - and without going the pop-up ad route - it'll take longer still.
$27,000 was the bill for my Broken Leg 2 years ago. SO - that's a real bill, that I really paid. So I can really gripe about it. -
is not currently available in your area." Why, because we actually have universal healthcare?
-
but they are on this site 4 times a day no matter what?
-
If you don't have insurance. I once got a concussion, went to the hospital for some test (didn't get any drugs) and I got a bill for over $ 3,000. What sucks most about it is that I shelled out alot of money, and I don't remember a single thing about being at the hospital because of the concussion... I've got nowhere to go with this other than to say I hate losing money.
-
I am not going to speak on what your site makes in income. But I do recall what people have said that you make of of the site, and I would be curious what you think you need to make in order to afford insurance. As far as the broken leg goes... lets be honest, you aren't a small guy. I don't know if a broken leg on a guy your size is considered "common". Then again, with the crap we as a country eat and our soaring weights, it will become common soon enough.
-
Thanks baccy
-
Tell me about it, guys. I recently had a pain in my ankle... thought it was a sprain, but it turned out to be something else... Nothing serious, but because of a limp I'm now out over $400 for 2 doctor's visits, some over the counter strength generic medicine and a blood test. And I think I got off lucky. There's nothing worse than sitting in a doctor's office, have him come in and have a 45 second conversation he could have had over the phone with you, not even look at what's hurting and charge you $120 for it. This is a broken system. Everybody on every side of the political debate thinks so, but there's never any change.As for the trailer, I think he's saying that health care at Gitmo is better for suspected terrorists than anything our wounded vets can get here. That's Gitmo, not Cuba as a whole. Or maybe I misunderstood.Either way, I like that Moore is aiming once more at the smaller things, even though he seems to be pulling in the administration once again. I think Moore works best when he's taking on the big guys for the little guys, like his show did and his early docs did. Just my opinion, though.
-
What was it called?
-
I'm thinking TV Nation. Good show, good show.
-
...it doesn't appear that MM is blindy praising Cuba as an unchartered Utopia. Did anyone even watch the damn trailer? He's simply making a point. The source he cites in the trailer clearly ranks the US two spots ABOVE Cuba, but I think the point is das: the US is purported to be the richest and greatest nation in the world, yet we're ranked 37th in health care. And more to the point, these 9/11 first responders - once hailed as great American heroes - are forced to go to Cuba to get the health care they so justly deserve. Fiction? I wish it were so. Drive your skull into the proverbial sand if you must; I'll be the first in line to see this little gem.
-
Well, that and the Awful Truth.
-
Does anyone ever consider trying these pages out on something other than Internet Exploiter? Perhaps that's on the to-do list after getting the search engine to display results in chronological order...
And no, I'm not just a whiner who underestimates the complexity of such tasks. I'm a computer programmer, have been for 20+ years, wrote a motion control program and used it on several movies and commercials, and I've been working with SQL Server and other database engines for 10 years. -
You've never seen the books at any company where you'd see the costs go out of control. You don't know anyone who works in the upper level management at a hospital or insurance agency. You don't know any doctors who have to deal with insurance agencies or routinely see patients without coverage. You don't work in HR and you haven't worked for a company that either has $hitty/no insurance or has recently revised it's healthcare plan. You don't work in the DC Beltway. You don't know anyone who's had serious health problems or you don't know anyone on high levels of medication. If you're exceptionally rich, work for one of the diminishing numbers of companies that still have good insurance or still have your parents pay for everything then I'm sure the Healthcare system seems fine to you. Don't worry though, once the whole thing breaks, it's going to impact everyone.
-
I wonder what shit storm awaits Moore as the film nears distribution. It seems he clearly violated the law in regard to travel to Cuba and has violated the embargo. I don't like the embargo, I'd love to go there, but the fact remains he broke the law. If I did what Moore did I would be tried and convicted. I'm sure he'll bring up valid issues, but I just don't want to look at this guy for a hour and a half. He makes me want to drive a spike into my skull. These issues are valid and deserved tobe discussed but not in these "documentaries" which are more just opinion and publicity pictures that he uses to glorify himself. I don't see how Michael Moore is the person to be bringing up the issue of health care for so many reasons. It doesn't really matter though because Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 really changed the landscape in regards to those issues. This guy is a joke, but a joke no one should laugh at, they should be scared that this guy even gets any attention.
-
what a great statement man! dissing a movie cause the director is gay! wow no really.. shit... this totally puts things in perspective now. luckily no one else in showbusiness is gay otherwise i couldnt watch anything anymore!
-
I can see your point of view. Moore can come off as an egotist sometimes, but like it or not, if some no name (or even known) documentarian covered this exact same issue, that film would only ever be seen at film festivals and IFC. Moore has used himself to create a brand and with the success of Bowling for Columbine, Roger & Me and Fahrenheit 9/11 he can reach a larger audience than any documentary (or "opinion piece") filmmaker out there, which means his work stands a better chance of actually changing things. Maybe not something as big as knocking a president out of office, but the snowball effect can certainly help the discussion and eventual fixing of this broken system.
-
Even with insurance, they can always just refuse to cover something if they feel it is elective. The problem is since everything costs so much (because the hospitals, clinics, etc expect insurance to pay) that you usually end up just not getting treatment. Rather than help you out in the beginning so your health doesn't deteriorate, the system penalizes you for going to the doctor so when you finally do go in the problem is much worse. There is a reason why more and more people are going to naturopaths for day to day ailments. It works, it's fast (you can get an appointment that week, not wait a month and a half), and the costs are much less. Most mainstream medicine is way overpriced (in fact you can usually talk bills down quite a bit if you are paying cash or just don't have insurance). For instance I get a routine blood test done that insurance doesn't want to cover, so I order it through an independent clinic and pay up front, and it is like one third to one fourth the cost than if it was just charged to insurance. Surgery in other countries is also more and more popular for the same reason. (I will probably be heading to Thailand for surgery once I get it signed off since again it is like 1/3 the cost of getting it in the states). So there are many things that could be done to improve the system, but it doesn't seem like things are going to get better soon.
-
Is he really gay? I've never read that anywhere before. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
-
The trade embargo is bullshit. It didn't serve its purpose and I can only hope that with Fidel's passing that the Cuban question is reconsidered.
-
Are we torturing the terrorists or giving them great healthcare? Or, maybe we are torturning, then giving them great health care so that they are healthy, so that we can torture them again...
-
What exactly makes you a specialist in the medical field? Are you a doctor?
-
wellll i am sure the health care for the prisoners on guantanamo bay is quite good cause try to think of an officer who has to explain why his prisoner died under his care... that would create a huge shit storm. if you get what i am getting at... get it?
-
I have the bill if you want to see my "lies." My first visit was $170 because I had x-rays done. And that was with them giving me a "we're sorry you don't have insurance" discount and not charging me for the second set of x-rays. Maybe your bills are so cheap because you work in the healthcare system, no? Maybe you should watch who you're calling a liar, no?
-
and they didn't even show us this one. I'm not that influenced by trailers and I knew I was going to see this no matter what the marketing was, but the two trailers they showed us were much better than this one. They were more informative, funnier, had narration in Moore's own voice, had better music, and were just more effective. This message aims to prove one point: The Focus Group System Doesn't Work!
-
Which one of these characters has nothing to do with the other?
-
A broken leg is not a broken leg. A small hairline fracture is not a horrid compound fracture with bones sticking out of the skin. Some breaks only need a cast, others require pins. Get a clue. A guy who weighs more puts more pressure on the break and typically the fractures are put under more strain. I certainly don't wish ill-will on Harry, nor do I delight in his health issues. But to act as if he is the norm, that is just silly. A common broken leg is not a $27,000 bill.
I am just sick of young people who don't want to pay for insurance because they don't think need it complaining about the time they got sick and had to drop a few hundred at the doctors office. This isn't directed at Harry or anyone else here, but instead to many of my mid-20's friends who would rather pay for their new ipod then insurance, then they get sick and have to pay for it all out of pocket. The lesson they learn isn't that they should have looked out for themselves and purchased a cheapish insurance plan (available to people our age), but instead the lesson is that the government should have paid for it. What a joke. -
Fantastic Four b/c there is more than one of them.
-
...and you dumbasses like jfp2006? Pull your head out of Dubya's ass, son. Our healthcare in this country is BEYOND reprehensible. I'm upper-middle class, making over six digits a year - and it's shitty for ME and my family. The poor CAN'T GET DECENT HEALTH CARE to...dare I say...save their lives. Listen to Bono from U2 (God, Part 2 I think): "The rich stay healthy and the sick stay poor." Pets get better healthcare than Americans.
-
They're all superheroes except Moore, who's a fictional character.
-
...I believe that jfp's insistence on using the overplayed "fat" card also discredits him beyond repair. I mean, honestly guys - is that the best you can do? Furthermore, I think calling MM a "fat hack" is falling prey to the lure of hyperbole as well. I mean, has anyone ever seen those damned videos showing 800lb men being fork-lifted out of their beds?
-
I recently saw Nanni Moretti's film Caro Diario (Dear Diary). The last episode focuses on health care in Italy during the early 90's. The last episode deals with his time in the hospitals and doctor's offices with his bout against cancer. Italy has socialized medicine. And while things may have gotten better, when I last was in Italy they still had the lire. Health care can have its horror stories from anywhere in the world. I think Moore's film at the very least will be entertaining. As for myself I'll be seeing Die Hard, (Bruce convinced me), but I can see this film making as much as Fahrenheit 9/11. As much as I don't like Moore I'll probably still end up adding it to my netflix queue when it hits DVD. Since everyone else is bringing up their own personal health care stories I'll just say that luckily while in college my parent's policy still covers me, and while I've never had to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a doctor's visit it doesn't mean its not a problem for others. I think Harry and Quint's stories are legit by the way, but these guys aren't the focus of reforming health care, at least from my standpoint. We need to help the children with at the very least free emergency care and hopefully get to the point where check up visits and medicine are provided for illness so that free emergency care can eventually become the norm for everyone. Thanks Quint for replying to one of my earlier posts, it shows that people who have differing view points can have serious discussion without hurling insults when it involves an issue as serious as this.
-
I'm sure millions of us would love to know where we can go for an office visit, lab, x-rays etcetera for $50. If such a place existed (it's not in a trailer park or in a back alley is it?) the whole issue would be over.
Why do you think there are people talking about it if there is no problem? -
It's good to see Moore back. I've loved all of his previous films. There was a scene in Fahrenheit 9/11 of a man who, post Sept. 11 was selling parachutes for people who work in skyscrapers, which in case their building got hit by a plane, they could put on the chute and jump to safety. Moore was pointing out the absurdity of it all, and how we had lost our heads after the attacks, and I wish he would have made this the central theme of the movie rather than bashing the administration. While I don't like Bush or his policies, Moore definitely polarized the country by making the film that way, and therefore discredited most of his previous work. So now instead of Sicko being used as a wake up call for the entire country on the condition of America's Healthcare system, it's instead going to be seen as just another "libruhl propaganda" by half the country, just because Moore's involved.
As for Healthcare in this country, I haven't really had to deal with anything first hand thank god, and I'm an OIF vet, so I have 2 years left of health coverage through the VA, but I know a few friends in the local unions who get huge chunks of their paycheck pulled for their employer based health care. -
"A broken leg is not a broken leg". Good stuff. I'm tearing up over here. I think the point is this: being underweight does preclude someone from breaking their leg in 5 places. What difference does it make how or why such a break would occur? You started the argument out by maintaining that Harry couldn't possibly have been made to pay such a bill, and clearly you've been proven wrong. What you or someone else might consider to be a "common break" may end up costing someone in upwards of $50k, depending on the severity of the injury and regardless of the "norm". Meanwhile, you (and others) continue to miss the REAL point - even people who have insurance are not being covered or are losing their insurance as a result of injury. I'm sorry, but the usual conservative false bravado really falls flat in this argument.
-
I once paid $100 at a clinic during urgent care hours to be briefly seen for an allergic reaction. Just got a simple prescription.
I didn't actually mind the cost, but $150 for much more than I got sounds far from unlikely. -
I don't necessarily have anything against the style of filmmaking myself. It's just how with Bowling For Columbine he pointed out some of the absurdities of guns in America, I was expecting 9/11 to be about the absurdities of how Americans reacted after 9/11 aka selling parachutes to people in office buildings. Or the part where the 60 year old guy is being investigated because of some comments made at a gym. Things like that, are things that any reasonable person can look at and say "hold on, let's stop for a minute and take a look at this" whereas the Bush stuff automatically alienated and put on the defense half the country, as well as many moderates.
Now films like Sicko, which I think most can agree addresses a relevant topic, will suffer because of Moore's reputation from 9/11. Moore's now automatically synonimous with the "extreme left wing" and whatever he puts his name on will have that taint, even with moderates, just because of how vocal the right is in attacking him. Kind of like Rosie O'Donnell, she's a fucking idiot, and an embarrassment to the Democratic party, and so any issue she associate's herself with will automatically have that taint. So now with Sicko, which based on this talkback there seems to for the most part be a big consensus that it has problems, will suffer because of how partisan 9/11 was. -
Where's an angry Frenchman when you need him??
-
the (potential) quality of health care vs the business end of the health care system. I have little doubt that we have some of the finest doctors and hospitals and the most advanced research and medial procedures in the world. But the health care _system_ is broken and getting worse by the day. Costs to employers are sky rocketing and many are forced to either get rid of coverage, give lesser coverage, increase the costs of their products/services or push a higher % of the cost on to employees. And the rate of increase is frightening. Other (but by no means the only) major problems crippling the system: Law suits, doctor's insurance premiums, not enough health care workers, "patients" scamming the system, people with no insurance who can't pay the bills which force "someone else" to eat the costs, insurance companies making medical decisions, quality of healthcare at less profitable hospitals suffering, cost of drugs, special interest groups lobbying Washington, R&D costs etc etc. And it's not a simple problem that's going to be fixed without some major sacrifices made somewhere... which is why while both republicans and democrats acknowledge the problem as a crisis, no one has an answer that's going to pass through congress.
-
The quote you refer was directed at the response of "a broken leg is a broken leg", which doesn't consider the difference between a hairline or a complex fracture. both are broken legs, but of differing types. As far as being proven wrong, when exactly did that happen besides harry claming it to be true? In addition, I enjoy that you refer to a "common break" costing as high as $50k. Is this a common break? No, a common break is put in a plaster cast and sent on its way. The very fact that it is outside the norm makes it an abnormal break, and is by its very definition uncommon. And in what way was the coverage or lack of coverage the REAL point? It was never something that I brought up, nor was it a part of anything that I had replied to? That may be Moore's point, that may be part of whether or the not the US is a broken system. These, however, were never issues that I bothered discussing because I don't have an interest in. I am more concerned with those who don't bother paying for insurance bitching about what they pay. In Harry's case, his break was obviously not simply a common-break, because if it were it would not have resulted in a $27k bill. I realize, one could argue that the bill is not reflective of the nature of the injury. In response to that, I would recall that Harry was basically an invalid through the entire healing process instead of hobbling around on crutches. Is this the nature of the injury or because of Harry's size? Either way, it doesn't really matter. The end result is an injury which costs more and is beyond a common break. That is my only point.
-
Then again i saw WIND CHILL so i'm really not the most discerning ticket buyer.
-
This comes out on my 30th birthday!!!
Anyway besides him doing very worthwhile work, I applaud Moore for choosing such an important and yet boring-sounding topic to do a film on, instead of something obvious and flashy. Can't wait to see it. -
That Cubans risk their lives in droves to come here. Cuban exile Humberto Fontova says it best in his book about Hollywood's idolization of Fidel Castro. http://tinyurl.com/2sqtmn
-
...is the point. Sure, it works when your nation is a welfare state, has the highest tax quota in the industrialized world and only 9.1 million people (Sweden). Simply put, the Swedish government pays for 85% of health care by taxing the shit out of its citizens. If a universal health care system were implemented in the United States, there would be waiting lists to receive basic care with people dying every day, poorer quality of care, and a unbelievable shortage of doctors. Canada has 2 doctors for every 1,000 patients! Plus, I am a reasonably healthy person that only visits the doctor for physicals...should I be forced to pay for health care services for smokers and the morbidly obese?
-
Michael Moore should be deported to Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, China, or better yet, shot in the back of the head in a ditch in any one of the above countries. My opinion of AICN is GREATLY diminished by the fact they give this traitorous psychopath bandwidth.
-
The segment where he takes a group of tracheaotomy patients Christmas caroling at the tobacco companies' headquarters was absolutely brilliant.
-
Another Moore movie where he takes things completely out of context to suit his needs. The health care system in this country could certainly be improved, but Moore doesn't want to actually help people. He just wants to exploit the misfortune of others so he can make a buck. He's like Hollywood's version of an ambulance chaser.
-
Does it look like I said we have the greatest health care system on the planet? Show me where I said that. I have a job and medical insurance so you won't be waiting to piss on my grave any time soon you pinko bastard. Uninsured people can receive emergency care at not-for-profits and government-run hospitals. Oh yeah, the United States spent $1 trillion on Medicare, Medicaid and welfare benefits last year...just a drop in the bucket compared to what has been spent on the "occupation". Get a clue...
-
Otherwise they'd know that not only was the US ranked 37th worldwide by the World Health Organization in 2000 (France, Italy and San Marino topped out), but that the US not only pays more per capita in private dollars, but also IN TAX DOLLARS then those three...check it out: http://www.nationmast er.com/graph/hea_hea_car_f un_pub_per_cap-care-fundin g-public-per-capita
-
Quicktime HD anyone?
-
I gots me a brain tumour the size of an orange. I was diagnosed, medicated, operated on (within 3 weeks) and was in hospital for two weeks thereafter. Total cost to me? zero. Only in Canada? Pity.
-
One is an Opthamologist, another an RN and the last an MD running a family practice. They all say the same thing even though it is their bread and butter, they agree the health care system in this country is way behind on many levels. Not all mind you, but on many. I won't clog up the TB with how many exactly but suffice to say something does have to change and soon. And yeah, Michael Moore is a knucklehead but he cracks me up.
-
people supporting him seem to be saying reasonable, supportable things. people in the middle seem to make fun of his weight and his pompous attitude. people against him think his a traitor that should be sent to north korea.who do you want on your side?
-
Anecdotal evidence, eye-catching graphics, showmanship...and a little Bush-bashing thrown in. What I don't expect to see is any harsh criticism of government entitlements (which drain the economy and leave taxpayers with even less money to pay for all expenses, including healthcare) or the FDA, an organization so risk-averse and bureaucratic that in the current climate, even aspirin couldn't get approved. The FDA is more responsible for higher drug prices than the pharmaceutical companies, who have the audacity to try and make back the billions of dollars they spend on drugs and products the FDA rejects because they show the slightest amount of risk, despite the advantages. However, I don't think I'll be surprised if Moore somehow manages to pin some kid of blame on George Bush (a ridiculous argument no matter who the President is).
-
So how can Americas be the best?
More people die in US hospitals form neglect and poor medical practice/pracedures than guns and US wars! -
Nice Point!!
-
... whoever said that all the writers on this site complain about not having insurance, that's not true. I feel for Quint and for Harry, but I have been incredibly lucky. The Writer's Guild insurance is fantastic, and it's been a life-saver (literally) several times for my family and for me in the last five or six years.
Having said that, even when you're in a program that works, there's no guarantee it will keep working. Our coverage keeps changing, often without notice, and we had a nasty surprise when we signed up with a pediatrician that was part of our plan, then suddenly he got dumped without us being told, and when we got the bills in, we were suddenly hit with about four times what we expected.
Anyone who believes that health care in this country is "fine" is delusional. I'm not a fan of Michael Moore's work (I may be one of the few writers on this site who pretty much hated FAHRENHEIT 9/11), but I applaud his decision to tackle this subject, because I think it's one of the most important facing Americans at the moment. -
Once again, Michael Moore is using his taking on an easy target. Why isn't Moore tackling the -real- problem: Out of control lawyers and their baseless malpractice suits? Too scared? I think so. And it's a shame because I think that he could probably do a good job on what's really killing any shot at decent health care in this country. You know what's really sick? Politicians who talk about health care reform out of the left side of their mouth while they refuse to support tort reform out of the right side.
Do any of you know what it's like to be a doctor these days? There are more US med students walking away from their programs than completing them because, quite simply, becoming a doctor (believe it or not) is almost too risky financially - aside from the investment in medical school, there are literally hundreds of thousands of lawyers drooling at the prospect of suing your ass off. There are similar parallels in the car insurance industry - take a look at a state like New Jersey...people scream and yell that their car insurance is too high, but if you look at the facts their insurance is so high because of all of the INSURANCE FRAUD.
It's not the healthcare system that's broken; it's the greedy, scumfuck lawyers who are making it too risky to practice medicine effectively and efficiently.
-
There's no way that bad luck can ruin your life, put you in debt until you die which, well, might come sooner if you don't have insurance in the US -- who can defend that shit?
-
The great thing about the USA is that it's huge and anyone can work hard and figure out a way to make a fortune by selling a little to the shitload of consumers here. That's what we have going for ourselves here that's better than the rest of the world. And that's about it. Selfish ambition is our dream here. And it's reflected in the fact that the citizens of this country can't even count on being able to have some where to live, something to eat and care when they get sick or injured. How does that make us the greatest country in the world? How about a country of slave/consumers who still believe the bullshit that the we do all the work while the rich get 99% of the rewards. The USA is great... but it's still the land of the people who freely accept the scraps we are handed down by our masters. And it will always be this way until one day we all say enough is enough and we demand that we all truly earn what we work for instead of handing it over to the handful of families in this country who are in power and control all the rewards of our work the same way they originally took it... slavery. Communism is fucking bullshit retardedness. I'm capitalism with every bone in my body. But I want the real worth of my hard labor instead of it going to the few fuckers who's ancestors murdered and cheated and stole it from our ancentors and who continue to keep it from us. WE did the work and they stole the rewards. This country could be the shit... not by giving everyone a fair share... but by 1. making sure everyone can live and eat and sleep and be cared for freely 2. making sure that slavery is finally truely abolished and all of us 99% of the country who do all the hard work get the reward of our labors. I just saw POTC and I'm kinda riled up. :P
-
To the citizens of this great country getting a taste of the reward of their own labor. That's how I see it. I'm sure somebody thinks I'm a traitor for demanding a fair share of my work. Well, fuck them.
-
Maybe you should write a horror story on it.
-
You are kinda sending a mixed message with "This country could be the shit... not by giving everyone a fair share" and the saying "I'm sure somebody thinks I'm a traitor for demanding a fair share ".
-
I have a story that's pretty interesting. It's true, and it goes something like this: Had a friend who was 16 who had a terminal illness. He had some complications, but lived, I saw him several times over the span of months. He was kept at home with IV tubes and such. But, his allergies kept getting worse. When he went into the hospital, he got a weird feeling in his stomach. Rather than providing him with the over-the-counter, no risk, medicine that he asked for (stuff used for fevers, etc), they gave him a new drug. After about fifteen minutes, he started convulsing. Then, he died. It was two weeks before his seventeenth birthday. Know what? The doctors stood there and watched. Do you have ANY idea why? They refused to put that drug as the cause of death and tried to tell his parents, who just watched their son die, it was a normal complication of the disease. Why? Because they would have suffered reprimands from the drug company and the drug would have had problems with the FDA if it was linked to a death. So, instead, they refused, under all circumstances, to put the drug as the cause of death, even though his parents watched what happened... Now she's suing that hospital. Not for money, so that people will know that the drug is dangerous, and let people know that lying about what killed someone for money from a dug isn't right. Do you think, because she's suing them, that she's wrong? Do you really believe that?
-
It's called context. Let me spell it out. Communism with it's give everyone the same is bullshit. Getting my fair share of my labors and paying taxes with the other share so that my community and city and state and country can function is good. Is that clearer?
-
Is an economic system rather than a political philosophy. And the free market is the cause of all your woes.
-
Having 99% of the wealth in this country in the hands of 1% of the people so that inflation is driven up so high that the value of my earnings are nearly worthless is fucking bullshit.
-
"Capitalism you idiot" Fuck you Idiot if you can't figure out what I meant. Give me a break. Save your fallacious arguements for the Transformers Talkbacks. Don't tell me that you couldn't tell what I was saying.
-
I do agree that lawsuit FRAUD is unjust and should be hammered into the ground, stopped out, and tore from the court rooms of our country, yes. I'm definitely not saying that all people filing malpractice lawsuits are just. Not all of them are. But I also don't believe that "There are more US med students walking away from their programs than completing them..." Do you have a credible source for that? I really don't believe that for a second and think that would be an exaggeration. That, or it's always been like that (kids dropping/failing out of med school cause of grades, etc... maybe that's always been high, I don't know.)
-
May 25, 2007 2:58:34 AM CDT
Only people with great health issurance back the system
by r.j. macready
, which unfortunatly isn't most of america. I love that douche bags Grumbles and jfp are arguing what Harry and Quint have paid in doctor's bills, because they'd know. Just shows you they don't know shit about shit. As for my 2cents, I'm canadian and I know our healthcare has issues( I believe we are 30th on the world heathcare list), but I'd rather have a system where everyone gets taken care of equally, homeless, rich or poor, and yes maybe we have to wait for surgeries, but its better then having to pay $10,000 to have a kid or 40,000 to have a hip replaced.
-
...Castro gets HIS from Spain!
-
Brainwashed zombies. Lemmings. Naive children who hide under the sheets. Can you guess which side I am talking about? Yes, those pale, ignorant, fat, Walmart bags of moronic McDonalds grease-laden facist, racist doublespeakers who pray for wealth, a greener lawn and their favorite sport team to win.
Waitaminute... what was this talkback for? Spiderman 3?
-
I meet these Scandinavians all the time and they...well, they are just so fucking well educated and sure of themselves. They just sit there with their free university education, green-ass lifestyles and free health care and they are so totally tranquil. They don't even boast like Americans do; they don't need to; do you show off your muscles to earthworms? It's not worth it. So bring it on USA: prove me right; start shouting about how great you are.
-
FACT.
-
they do have absolutely freakin crazy taxes there. My friends in Sweden said, uh... 60% or something crazy like that! It's a give and take.
-
This is about human beings being treated for ailments. The right to live a healthy, long life based on medical advances. How sick is it that our country charges us a shit-load of money to simply get well?! Yeah, I think Bush is the biggest scum-sucking, drug taking, booze chugging, spoon feeding idiot on the planet... but this goes well beyond him. Does he help he problem? No. What the fuck has he done of it? Nothing. But neither has anyone else. Guys, its about fucking time we stood up to these politicians and said-- ENOUGH. Stop taking money from the pharm. and insurance companies. What no one remembers is... WE run this country. They work for US, goddamn it! Yeah, we sit here and post our little comments about movies and television shows and soforth...but chirst almighty, let's take the power we have here to make REAL change. I hate to say this but the fucking hippies of the late 60's/early 70's had it right. Let's fucking MARCH, man! "Oh, but I filled out an online petition!"... FUCK THAT... online petitions don't do anything. They need to SEE us. In the words of Ash: Who's with me?!
-
Boy am I tired of hearing about the
Canadian healthcare system and how great it’s supposed to be. Yeah, sure, if
you get a cold, you’ll see a doctor… in 3 to 4 days. Most people are mostly over
their cold by then. As for critical surgery, you get to sit on a waiting list
before you even see your specialist, and there’s a real good chance you’ll die
while you wait. Check this out as an interesting example http://tinyurl.com/3bkpbm Oh, yeah, I forgot, here’s the catch:
add $4000 to your tax bill this year, then that same $4000 + 13 % for the next,
and so on. And that’s just for single people. Providing “free,” shitty, universal
healthcare to everyone is expensive.
Yes, our system is broken,
but there isn’t one out there that’s any better. We need to change ours, no
argument there, but it ain’t gonna happen. You know
why? Because WE have given our politicians the best healthcare available, for
free… We pay for it. So they don’t need to change the system, and they won’t. Why?
Because the people it would benefit don’t fuckin’
vote. There’s the dirty secret. -
It's amazing to see people who defend the lack of free health care in this country. It's like seeing someone defend their molester parent. They are being fucked, but they are trained so well to believe that they don't deserve any better that they make excuses to defend their parents. Or the abused sibling who is angry at the sibling who speaks badly of their parents. Guess what... we are being fucked... and it's not our fault and we don't deserve it. We all deserve to live. And we all deserve to be cared for when shit gets fucked in life. That's not expecting too much from each other. That's being a human being. A free social interdependant human being. And fuck the selfish fuckers who say they don't want to pay taxes to pay for medical help for other people. Go fucking live on an island assholes. The point of living in a community is that we take care of each other. Not baby each other, but at least we take care of each other when we are hurt.
-
Yes, in the UK, Australia even the dirt poor can break their leg and get it patched up. Strange, huh?
-
The problem with Michael Moore’s movies is not the man behind them, or the films themselves. It’s the goddamn audience that goes to see them, which is so stupid. All you pop-corn munchin’, cell phone using motherfuckers need to get something through your thick skulls (you can access this system in your body by reaching up your ass): he makes POLITICAL CARTOONS. They are NOT documentaries, and the little bit of truth in them is only there to make the whole joke work. Cuba is a perfect example. What the fuck does Cuba have anything to do with this? Nothing, of course, unless you’re trying to express your opinion by making a joke. Yep, that’s it, folks, Moore is just expressing an opinion. He’s very good at it, but it does not make him a specialist or even close to the truth. I bet the people who buy this shit own a Che Guevara T-shirt, and I wonder why they don’t have the guts to wear a real swastika instead, the ignorant fucks. It’s a testament to how stupid we are as a nation, that Moore is taken so seriously. What a bunch of ignorant fuckwads we are (with a few exceptions: anyone from New Orleans, NASCAR fans, and Paris Hilton).
-
Did you think of that all by yourself? Or are you just another drone who talksback talk radio? You are calling the people who take political cartoons serious idiots?? Guess what... they are serious. And they illustrate with wit the rediculous. Such as, in this case, the lack of free health care in the richest country in the world. Welcome to grown up thinking land. We sometimes speak with wit. Stick around, hopefully you'll catch on.
-
Is there anyone in the L.A. area that wants to march? Granted we might get gunned down by the L.A.P.D. but I'll risk it. We need to let these lying fuckers know that we're SERIOUS and are not going to take it anymore.
If so... e-mail maxdrywall@gmail.com -
...aren't sick to death of listening to Americans bleat on about how great they are; we've had like a century of this crap. You never stop. STFU for five seconds together, would you?
-
http://www.stanford.edu/class/polisci120a/immigration/Federal%20Tax%20Brackets.pdf take a look at the history of USA taxes in that pdf. I'll take higher taxes knowing that we can all expect to live and be healthy. Even if it's flawed, at least we don't walk around knowing that we ALL matter to each other. Maybe then, when we all have each other's backs, when we stop stepping over each other just to survive, maybe then we can fucking get ahead in life. Working to help each other is always better than going it alone. The USA needs to grow up out of it's stubborn teenager independance stage of maturity and learn that the next stage of maturity after seperating yourself and declaring you are free is freely joining with others for a better life made together. Fuck this sense of isolation we have in this coutry. This me against the world attitude we all get stuck in because we are just fighting to live day to day. That's the second biggest advantage to a free health care system in the USA. The change it will make when people can breathe easy about staying alive and healthy and start paying attention to raising their quality of life. That is worth higher taxes to me. If there is one thing beside law enforcement that taxes are worth paying for it's health care.
-
"at least we don't walk around knowing that we ALL matter to each other." should be "at least we walk around knowing that we ALL matter to each other."
-
you're calling me a drone but you're the one using an oxymoron without realizing
it – probably because you watch too much TV. (I bet you think I just insulted
you, so look up that word in a dictionary, yo.)
I have two questions
for you: firstly, how do you figure on “free universal healthcare”? Who’s gonna pay the doctors, the nurses, the pharmacists, the
drug makers, etc, for their hard work? How can any kind of healthcare be free? My
second question is this: what’s your PHD diploma in, and where did you get it? Kinkos?
And lastly, because I’m
still drying tears, (you don’t know how hard you made me laugh): I host a talk
radio show. How’s that for a kiss-off? -
So hes a Traitor for expressing his free speech? Wow how American! So far all ive seen is name calling and few facts why hes a Liar. Oh yeah he Munipulates the facts..Ha ha how can you say that with a strieght face when the News De Jour of the right does nothing but twist the facts and hide the truth. Man it must suck to be you to defend the sleeze and boy king of the GOP and not have a thought of your own. Face it Health care is a big problem in the US and it needs to be fixed WITHOUT coopreate fingers in the pie. Oh yeah hows that war in Iraq going? Just peachy huh? Moore was pretty wrong on that one too with F 9/11 huh? Ive got a great solution to that pesky Moore making movies about stuff. Bring back the fiarness doctorine in the Media then maby the GOP wont have has much egg on its face as it does now with all that unchecked power and limitless propaganda.
-
im pretty happy living in Germany. Im a american and i can say that even if the tax rate is above 60%..im still cool with it because i can breake my leg here without beeing broke for years. Michael Moore is a hack but people..if only ten percent of the stuff he told us in 9/11 and Colombine is true..damn.
-
Besides, who need universal health care when we can just put tiny American flags on our cars and lots of stickers proclaiming just how "Together We Stand". Now that's patriotic bitches!... USA! USA! :P
-
Oxymoron - fuck you. To answer your two questions: 1, are you seriously asking this question? 2, asskicking. Talkshow Host - oh yeah, i remember hosting a radio show when I was 22. it was a fun summer job. you do that for a living? i work a real job. currently in games and simulation. i am a programmer. I work about 60-65 hours a week. Currently on a 360 arcade title part time in the evening and during the day in a lab on a project with Boeing and MIT. i work for a living and do my talking as a contibuting citizen not a personality paid to talk. my opinions come free of the influence of ratings. what about yours? Just kidding about that last question there. But it felt good to say.
-
I do the talk show for a living indeed, and you're right, it's easy work. It's more like a part time job or a hobby, depending on the day. I got lucky... or I was smart enough to figure out a way to make a great living without working too much... and I get full benefits, too. Consequently, and since I can't wait 'cause I love to laugh, I think I'll go see Sicko the afternoon it comes out. I'll be out of the studio by then. I'll deduct the price of admission from my tax return, too.
-
we'd all have health care
-
I haven't seen Sicko and it took alot for me to finally watch the other flicks by Michael Moore. I understand what his method are and I think I understand his motivations for making his movies. I think that calling them Political Cartoons is probably pretty accurate. But to use that as a way to deflate them... that's just cheap and as a radio show host I think you'd want to care how you argue. I don't think it's very fair of you to call everyone idiots because you think they don't think issue thru when you aren't argueing them fairly. On a side note... I did think your Kinkos phd jab was pretty funny. Also, I do remember the good old days of radio. It was fun. Hated the pay though. Ouch. Radio Hosts make dick. It sucks. But, then again, at least Radio Hosts are also the only celebrity that can't use their celebrity to get laid. :( But you can get into parties. Where you will likely be showered with praise by... wanna be radio geeks. :( Now I remember why I only did it for a summer. No offense to you if you love it. It's probably worth it to you. At least it's better than the music industry.
-
I think the differance between the U.S. and allot of the other counties that have heathcare is most americans don't want to pay for everyone. Why should Mr Subovon have to pay higher taxes just so the kid born with some rare disease can get treated. I'm not saying this is how all americans think, but it sure seems like most of them do. Maybe the U.S. should start fixing itself from within, before policing the world. The U.S. is like a fat kid telling everyone else how to diet and exercise.
-
"The U.S. is like a fat kid telling everyone else how to diet and exercise." ...the "n´uff said" thing was missing. Amen.
-
I happen to be in Europe, and good old AOL won't let me watch the trailer, saying:
"Sorry, the clip you are trying to play is not currently available in your area."
I'm sorry, but I'm in Europe, and we got to see SICKO first. So please, get a life.
For all thos who've had similar issues, click on this:
http://tinyurl.com/2pqbdl
Perhaps Michael should do a docu on web control next. -
He's three weeks old just today.
When we had our last child, my girlfriend had healthcare through her job, and all was well. Decent coverage, decent price. A few months after he was born, she went back to work and her store unfortunately closed. Took her a while, but she got a new job. Shortly thereafter, we found out she was pregnant again. Only this time, her job didn't provide healthcare, so she would have to get her own. She called Kaiser (the same health coverage company she had from her previous job) and got an application for coverage.
Turns out being pregnant is a "pre-existing condition." So the same company that provided her coverage one year before now could not accept her... for the same "condition" it covered her for the previous year.
So we looked into MediCal. But apparently, because of what she and I make together (maybe about $4000 a month before taxes... and it's that BEFORE TAXES part that makes us seem on paper so damn wealthy...) divided by me, her, our son and my stepson, we make "too much" to qualify for MediCal. So somebody tells us about the AIM (Access for Infants and Mothers) program, which is like a one-time, pay-as you go kind of deal. For about $1000, which we make monthly payments on, everything's covered through pregnancy until a month or two after delivery. They tell us which hospital to go to, what doctors we can use, etc. It's all good.
We had our son on May 4th. Mother and child were back home two days later (my g/f had her tubes tied before leaving the hospital, which took an extra day there.)
Turns out, though, that when my son was born, it changed the division of our hosehold income-to-family-members, making us officially eligible for MediCal, so the person at the hospital gets us set up in the application process for the program, but does it INSTEAD of using our coverage information from the AIM program, so we end up being charged the entire $10,000 bill for the entire experience. AIM tells us we need to get the information to the hospital, the hospital tells us the bill's already been sent out and they never were given any notification that we had coverage.
So, even though we're still paying the $1000 to Blue Cross's AIM program, we'll also be paying $10,000 to the hospital they sent us to that doesn't believe we had the AIM program. -
I'm calling everyone idiots because I know what I'm talking
about. I'm one of them, and I’m not even kidding.
I don't think calling Moore's
films political cartoons is to deflate them at all. I wish I could deflate the
consequence of us, the public, taking them so seriously. Instead of dissecting
them, we should talk about the issues - the real ones. A good political cartoon
uses the truth as a color among many to make us laugh, just like you pointed
out. If only they could be fire-starters. Instead, we laugh absent-mindedly, then we go to commercials and see a spot for that new big-screen
TV we want, or whatever the boob tube convinces we need, and we forget what we
were talking about. Consequently, we don’t change anything, and we get a new school
massacre every six months, but we won’t get a better health care system.
So how about telling our congress (by the people, for the people),
that their posh, all inclusive health care plan they won’t share with us, is
now canceled - and see what happens? How long would it take before we all got
good coverage at a reasonable price? Not long I think – holly shit, wait a
second, there’s that commercial for…
Uh… what? What was I saying? -
Thanks. You proved the point that people like you are smug assholes who couldn't give a damn about the rest of the country, all while telling us to get off our irresponsible asses and find real work that pays, while you enjoy your laborless psuedo-job providing your comfortable life... you proved the point much better than the rest of us could just by assuming it of you.
-
I don't think people watch Michael Moore movies like they are must see tv. I worked at a video store as a shift manager when F 9/11 released. I still did the day job while working my way into games at that point. I was very talkative and everyone who watched that movie had a LOT to say about it. EVERYONE. From good to bad NOBODY was indifferent about it. I was finally talked into watching it about 6 months after it released on dvd. 6 months of people telling me I should watch it. Video store constumers. At a Blockbuster video store.
-
Yeah. People with actually good Insurance who have been fortunate enough not to have this kind of shit happen to them don't seem to realise that this kind of shit is the norm not the exception.
-
...it's really just kind of the comfort of non-concern. They don't need to think about it, so they don't. But I think a lot of people in that position grow to assume that their circumstance is how it goes for everybody. I don't fault those people for that assumption, but I do take issue when they put their foot down and refer to the rest of us as liars, exaggerators or whiners. They go on arguing, believing that if they're not in a position to complain, than we must not be either. Screw that.
-
The funny thing is, Mr Subovon is paying for other
people's healthcare in this country, just like every tax-paying, health insurance
buying American does. But he doesn’t think this is the problem.
Here in Texas,
if an illegal alien shows up at one of our hospitals with a baby on its way to
its first breath, she will be taken in and given the best care the country has
to offer. And thank goodness for that, for crying out loud (I don’t mean the baby).
Thing is, the services are free to her because she can’t pay. She doesn’t have
any papers, so where would they send a bill, anyway? It’s kind of the wrong
reason for the services to be free, though. It’s back-asswards.
The bill gets spread out in our taxes, and insurance premiums, and most of us can’t
complain about it, because no matter what or whom our insurance bills pays for,
it’s an expense that the vast majority of Americans can afford.
However, there is a big problem: people like Llghtst0rmer still
get kicked in the ass by the insidious dishonesty of the insurance industry,
and it happens all the time. People with good jobs and decent families go bankrupt
because of this kind of bullshit all the time.
Another funny thing is that there is actually no need to
provide universal healthcare through the government. In fact, if you look at Germany, France
and Canada,
doing so is a catastrophic mess. We’re already set up in the US to avoid
this – people who are paying insurance premiums and taxes are already funding
the emergency healthcare of people without insurance. If we’d just tell our politicians to force the insurance
industry, the hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to be honest, there’d be
plenty of money from their existing pot of gold to pay for all the healthcare
needs of the people who can’t afford insurance – before their cases grow into emergencies.
It’s cheaper to treat a sinus infection than bronchitis, right?
SICKO appears as though it will be all about the aforementioned
dishonesty, and that is why it could be very funny. If only it could popularize our understanding
of this problem the way RAIN MAN popularized the need for acceptance and understanding
of autism, and mental disorders. Not that we don’t have any progress to make on
that subject…. Maybe Moore’s
next movie could be about that. He could call it WACKO. -
My previous post was written before I rad your insult.
-
Arabs wanna kill you, europe looks down its nose at you, rest of the world has nothing but contempt and your own people elect a monkey to lead you and if you get ill you go bankrupt... fuck me sounds like a great place to live folks, but just you guys keep churning out the good movies and hit tv shows i couldnt give a fuck if the rest of it falls apart as long as i have lost and Bay's Transformers 2 to look forward to
-
Soooo Funny, and soooo sad.
-
"Another funny thing is that there is actually no need to provide universal healthcare through the government. In fact, if you look at Germany, France and Canada, doing so is a catastrophic mess." That is not true. And honestly, I don't understand how people can be such selfish pricks that they would not be willing to pay taxes for everyone to get health care. If there is one single thing that should be a highest priority it's health care for a society. I don't even begin to understand how anybody who doesn't have a stake in Insurance doesn't see the fact that people in a society should take care of each other at least when it comes to injuries and illness. Is that so difficult? We're talking about life and death here. What's the fucking problem with pricks who won't at least agree that an advanced society should be taking care of that much.
-
if Americans didn't have monkeys to
complain about, their movies would be really dull. Kind of
like Swiss movies. Ever seen one?
And yo, llghtst0rmer, I didn’t mean to insinuate that I would not
have written that post and taken your side in it, had I “read” your insult
(sorry about the typo, folks). I just thought a timeline would be useful to ‘ya. -
I don’t know what the problem is with me and all those pricks who think low taxes mean good paying jobs for more good people in this country. I’m just saying it looks to me like we can take care of everyone without paying anymore taxes, IF we got our politicians to be honest, and the insurance companies, and the hospitals, and… but what the fuck, let’s raise taxes. That’s always great for the economy, and if you do it with a nice big pink heart on your sleeve, you can look good doing it, and who knows, maybe even get laid. I’m all for that, dude. I take your part!
-
yeah. what is your problem? seriously. joking aside. why the fuck is it that we can live together and have the advantages of a society, but if we have to pay for it together it's "fuck that shit"? and people's whole lives are fucked for years and decades and sometimes permanent because of health issues. why is it that of all the fucking ways to keep taxes lower, this is one that anyone is ok with? answer that. why not anything else but making sure sick and injured people are taken care of?
-
FAG!
-
that's the point. leaving health care in the hands of people who are going to get as much money for it as possible is the biggest problem and fundamentally, you can't 'make' them stop that without controlling it. so, one way or the other, government is controlling it.
-
by the way, you joke your way around your arguments as much as you accuse Michael Moore. you haven't said a single direct statement. that is how you don't get anywhere in an argument. unless nowhere is where you want to be. where you can claim anything and if you sound like you got the upper hand, then you win. which is bullshit.
-
...I am a person with a good job and a decent family. So I don't think you said so much that you should regret saying it. On the other hand, Anton told you 4 or 5 posts ago to fuck off, and still you two seem to be having a decent conversation, so maybe we can move on as well.
Don't you see a flaw in what you're saying above; that our health care costs are outrageous mainly for people using our hospitals and emergency rooms without any health incurance or any other means to pay, but at the same time, you are against the idea of people with no health insurance to be PROVIDED such coverage by a national program, which would, in turn, save us all from having to restitute the unpaid emergency room bills? I mean, if EVERYONE had a resource to assist paying their medical bills (my family included,) it would save so many people --most specifically the ones who are most unable to afford such titanic bills-- from going bankrupt when such bills are given to them?
And you say the solution is "If we'd just tell our politicians to force the insurance industry, the hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to be honest, there’d be plenty of money from their existing pot of gold to pay for all the healthcare needs of the people who can’t afford insurance – before their cases grow into emergencies." You make a living discussing this kind of thing? And that's your real-word assessment? You believe the insistence of the American people to its legislators is actually going to outweight the financial benefits they get from that industry?? Call me a cynic, but that's just not the world I know I live in. Yes, it's their dishonesty (the politcians as well as the health care conspirators) that is at the heart of the problems we're facing, but it's also at the heart of their insane profits. To the American people, the system is broken. To the health care industry fatcats, things are working out fine.
And there's another irony you seem to have missed... Washington will never "force" the Health Care industry to be honest about its practices, but Michael Moore --for all the opportunism and attention-whoring you accuse him of-- is actually trying to. -
My problem is
stupid people, generally. At least on most days, that’s what seems to be the problem.
I
don’t know how you got the notion that I don’t think we shouldn’t all pitch in
to help those who are still climbing to the middle class. I don’t think that,
nor did I write it.
As
for what I started out to say on this board, it can be summed up like this: I think
people believe everything they see and hear on TV, that they think Michael Moore
is telling them the truth - not a joke - and that I think those people are dumb
for not turning on their brains. I’m assuming they have on here, but I might be
wrong. In fact… ah fuck it, never mind. Let’s ust say
I know I have one, and that it’s not always one, OK? So I relate. BUT, I don’t’
get my news from the fucking toob!
‘Tell
you what, though, you seem to be a CNN fan. I feel satisfied
that it gives me an explanation for why you think the healthcare system in France (for
instance) is so great. What CNN does not tell you, is that slapping upper
middle class people, and on, up with a tax rate exceeding 60% of their income,
is the reason the economy in that country is not growing much. In fact, it’s
been stagnating for over a decade. The country is also looking at reducing a
jobless rate that is near 10% of the population. And like I mentioned… the healthcare
system is broken, expensive, and going bankrupt. But what would you know about
that? -
exactly. that is the reason that 'fixing' the current private health care payment approach will never work in our lifetimes at least. now. honestly. as bad as this sounds. i would rather have trillions of dollars in debt for covering the health of our country than waring in other countries. why are we taking care of other countries before we take care of ourselves? that doesn't make any sense at all. let's see trillions spent on cancer research and genetics research. how about money spent on keep our food safe. we need to focus on taking care of our basic needs as a country before we go fighting others.
-
I am not a CNN fan. I actually don't follow the news. I am talking from life experience and from what I hear from other regular folk and just common sense. I'm not following anyone. I make up my own mind.
-
it's 5:36am. my work is done. i need some sleep. good debate.
-
Illegal Mexican immigrants are likely to "hop across the border" for medical emergencies (or to deliver "anchor babies," as the right-wingers love to call them,) in four possible states: Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and here in California. And yet it is argued that they are the reason health care costs are astronomical throughout the nation.
Couldn't it be -- and I know this is crazy, but bear with me -- that because health care costs are so high, low-income and even middle-income people and families from all across the US can't afford it, but still require medical emergencies from time to time? (Yes, even the poor folk break limbs, get cancer and have babies on occasion.) However, if they can't afford insurance, they sure as hell can't afford the medical bills, so these bills, in hospitals from ALL 50 STATES, go unpaid. And so those of us who have health insurance and/or pay taxes pay more to cover such costs. Is that a likely scenario, or am I living in my own little imaginary world? -
Everyone he saved over the past two years gets their medical bills for all the exploritory testing they had --- *drama*!
I'm not sure who it was that mentioned high mortality rates due to wait times for medication in Canada, but they are dead wrong. The longest wait I've had to get medication was 20 minutes while they checked to ensure it wouldn't conflict with another medication I was on at the time.
Seriously, I can't imagine a living in a country where unviersal health care isn't a right. -
I don't know if my "work here is done," but it is late and, like a 9-year-old, I'm already in trouble for not being in bed.
Subovon, if you write a response, I apologize for missing it. I'll have to look for it when I come back to this board tomorrow. -
This is going to be fantastic.
-
...it was really just Grumbles making a facetious point that if Harry or Michael Moore can make "unjustified" statements, he could too. He wasn't actually claiming that as a real statistic.
-
I don’t
think Michael Moore is whoring. I DO think he’s learned how to exploit people’s
gullibility, but that’s a good way of doing business, and we all know that’s
how the world works, especially in La-La Land. I reproach
the audience for not being very smart. That’s how I feel about t, and about the
audience not being very smart… well, I think I’m right. Ever watched people
drive, for instance?
Now,
you are right to point out an apparent hole in my argument. However, when I
said that healthcare costs are covered for people who cannot pay, I was only talking
about illegal immigrants.
As
far as I know, our hospitals do not turn illegal immigrants away because they
cannot pay (antonpd: I’m a prick all right, but I
still think not turning these people away is the right thing to do, so sue me).
But then I DID mention I thought that dishonesty towards American families is
the reason so many go bankrupt under the weigh of unfair
medical bills. Sounds like you know al to well how that can happen, although I
hope you and your family are far from going bankrupt.
You
don’t seem to be without insurance, though, which kind of ads weight to my
argument that dishonest is to blame. But if someone is without insurance, they
are charged astronomical prices which are a lot higher than those fees
negotiated by the insurance companies for their “insured”. That’s not right, in
my opinion, and quite frankly, I just don’t understand how that is legal. But American
have addresses, and can therefore be sent a bill, and
forced to pay it or else…. And there’s nothing fair or right about that, if you
ask me, if the price is gouging the custmer. Seems to
me that the only difference between an illegal and a legal resident, is that address.
The illegal don’t pay because they cannot be found easily. Legal citizen can be
fund, and are, and are subsequently persecuted.
Question
is, why is it, that someone without insurance, will be
charged more for a broken finger, than someone with insurance? If someone
cannot afford to pay, shouldn’t they be asked to pay less than someone who can
pay? The YMCA charges people on a sliding scale to join the club. You make less
than your neighbor? You can join for a smaller fee. Why don’t hospitals have
systems like that? From this question, I’ll go right back into my argument that
the whole system is dishonest. I’ve been saying that from line one. If you
disagree with me, I’m cool with it.
As
for our politicians, they d profit from the medical profession’s lobbies, and
like I’ve pointed out several times, they get the best health coverage in the world
(that’s verifiable). Reason is: us. We, the people who put them in office, let them
get away with it. And I think a big reason for this is because we’re too stupid
to pay attention long enough to understand the problem, and we’re more
interested in that new Ford F1450 commercial ,anyway. But
then, I’ll go right back into the arguments I’ve made, which have angered Antonphd, and I don’t’ want to upset the man too much… and
this post is long enough now that I should put a period to it. -
Really you guys bitch about a 200 dollar doctor visit I pay 228 dollars every payday to have insurance that my family hardly uses.I wonder if Mr. Moore addresses illegal aliens burden on our health care system?
-
France is doing poorly not because of the high tax rate, which is a small part of it, but because it continues to allow in huge amounts of low skilled immigrants while having a system where ethnic French can be middle class street sweepers. This makes it so that there is a huge underclass of people that can not be employed and who are just a burden on the welfare state. That's the major issue facing France.
I'm a fan of universal healthcare. If not universal healthcare than at least universal preventative measures.
I take the Bill Cosby approach to health care. America's health care system is screwed up. It's terrible. But Americans aren't doing their part in making their lives any healthier, though. -
$15,000 annually. And thats for 5 members, two who have pre-existing conditions. And its a top notch plan as well. Just thought I'd throw out some facts.
-
I have only accused
Michael Moore of being a staunch capitalist, and I didn’t even mean it in a bad
way. You keep misreading my posts, though. They are full of direct statements and
some meandering ones, too. I tend to digress (‘cause I can), but I’ve also
written a lot of verifiable information. I even provided a useful link to a
good article you can’t read, because you don’t follow the news.
As for the reason I
keep making jokes in my arguments, it is because I like to, and also, because you
keep handing me these attractive silver platters covered with opportunities to
joke my way around your insults. And that, by the way, is why I *have* kept an
upper hand. While I moved forward in our argument, I have not insulted you, nor
have I taken offense to what you had to say. When I make a general call that people
are stupid, I always count myself as a member of the club. I’m even thinking of
running for president. I’d make a spectacular grand wizard of stupidity. Take my
word on it. -
I didn't diss the movie. I just said he sucks dudes off. You read into that statement that somehow I thought it was a rotten movie. I haven't seen it, I don't know what kind of movie it is.
I'm just saying Michael Moore sucks dudes off. That's all.
But I cannot tell a lie, I don't actually live in his hometown and I don't actually know that he's gay. But I have my suspicions that he does indeed suck guys off.
That is all. -
I agree with Robertsilence's subject line. HC is your own problem. Do you buy your own car insurance? Then why can't you buy your own health insurance?
Take care of yourself and stop being such a whiny little baby. Yes, I'm talking to you.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaah. -
You grossly
underestimate the cost of the high tax rate to the country's economy, and I
think you don't realize the consequence of its socialism, which has dug the
hole the country has fallen into. But I don't know what makes you think you
know jack shit about any of it. Care to tell us? I’ve heard Bill O’Riley say some
dumb shit along those lines, and they’ve all been good for a belly laugh. Are
you basing your assessment on his show? Got one of those “Boycott France” bumper
stickers?
Also: France does not
allow huge influxes of immigrants, (skilled laborers or not). You’re flat wrong
about that. The country is dealing with a large population of people who are
not educated and who are not interested in adapting to French society, and that
is a monumental problem. Thing is, they’ve been there for over a generation, and
in fact, it is their children who are raping French girls, destroying their own
neighborhoods, and setting fire to their neighbor’s cars. It is one of the main
reasons the country overwhelmingly voted in President Sarkozy: to combat the influence
of the car-burners and such motherfuckers who are holding the country back. -
which of you is fatter? Because that will pretty much decide me as to your argument.
NO JUST KIDDING. And Sepulchrave & other non-Americans, believe me plenty of Americans are ashamed of America, you just don't hear from us in the corporate-owned media, which carefully sets the terms of debate.
Our democrat/republican government has ZERO to do with the concerns of everyday Americans. Our country is backwards and fucked (see: creationists); our government is pretty much the christian version of the Taliban. Anyway Naomi Wolf says it all much better: http://tinyurl.com/yqhznn -
yeah MM is a sensationalist documentarian...but dammit i lik ehis work..and im glad he's doing it.
the world is better for it, like it or not.
btw CANADA ROOLS! -
"I am glad I am not in Canada where the mortality rate for the common cold is 67% due to the long wait for medication"
??????
nice crack smoking. -
I respect and ejoy your writing and reviews and almost always agree with them, but how in the HELL did you "hate" Fahrenheit 9/11? HATED it?? What exactly did you hate about it?
-
jesus...say what you will about Canadian healthcare...but when I break something...I go in..wait a long time...get it fixed FOR FREE and walk out. I broke my arm as a kid...shattered the elbow..has surgery from a top orthapedic surgeon (name: john davidson..thats incredible!) cost nothing, now im a grown up..i pay a shit load of taxes and guess what? ITS TOTALLY WORTH EVERY CENT!
-
to find your review of it but I don't want to be here for the next 10 hours.
-
the answer is : fantastic four....Its the one i have no interest in seeing a movie about (or from).
-
I too am a little
ashamed of this country, even if I wouldn’t go as far as to say that anything in
Washington resembles
the Taliban. I do love bashing those ignorant bible thumpers, though. They’re an
anachronism. (Anachronism = Geronimo wearing a Rolex!) Still, no matter how cynical
I am, and no matter how mad I get at some things my fellow citizens do, none of
it comes close to outweighing how much I love this country. With all my heart,
mate. Which is why I get ashamed....
I weigh 155 pounds,
so I don’t know if I win, but I don’t feel no shame about that! -
why is MM traitorous? did he sell millitary plans to china? ooooh! no wait you mean because he has differing political ideas than you...riiiight. yeah shoot him.
-
re: canadian healthcare...you have no idea what you are talking about.
perfect? certainly not. better than the US? way. -
re: canadian healthcare...you have no idea what you are talking about.
perfect? certainly not. better than the US? way. -
but a lot of people who I know(including many latinos) are up in arms about it, and it's certainly a major issue for most right-wingers. I live in Georgia and for those who haven't been south of the Mason-Dixon line lately, Spanish is more or less the first language down here.
My personal feelings aside, many of the American people ARE upset about rampant border-crossing, and what has this supposedly republican administration done about it? JACK SHIT, because their corporate masters like being able to hire & mistreat disposable workers for $3/hr. The people in power have ZERO interest in actually representing the American people, and that goes for the spineless/corrupt Democrats as well as the spineless/corrupt Republicans. -
Nah! No way. I'll
take our broken, dishonest system over Canada's, anyway.
http://tinyurl.com/3bkpbm
Canada's got us on a few things, though. Peaceful
citizens, several political parties (well, more than 2), an education system
that generally puts ours to shame, at least up until college, which ain’t
nothin’, and... the girls are gorgeous (but hey - so are American girls, before
they get fat - do they get fat in Canada?). And I’ll be buried in powder: the skiing is
spectacular. Oh, and Northern Lights… ah yes… Northern Lights…. -
http://tinyurl.com/3bkpbm
(Sorry folks.) -
A/ what in god's name does your link on british cancer survival rates have to do with canadian healthcare?? B/ We have a few worldclass universities C/ im in toronto, never seen the northern lights, D/ yes they sometimes get fat.
-
A/ The article stipulates the study also looked at Canada (see
paragraph 6).
B/ Totally right about that, probably more than a few, even.
I was saying that up until high school, Canada
has the US
beat, at least at the public school level, but then, in college, the game is
more competitive, thank goodness.
C/ if you're looking for the Northern lights in the Toronto night sky, you're
not aiming *high* enough.
D/ Well, shit. But at least, in Toronto, you've also got a world class
ballet, and not only are those girls not fat at all, but they're one of the
prettiest bunch of ballerinas around, and that's a big
something! -
is the most heated one I've seen since spiderman 3 came out. Except this one is about something that matters.
Personally, I think this is the perfect topic for Moore to cover. Sure he's biased and makes opinion pieces, but he entertains and informs you and gets his main point across while doing it. We all (Well the majority of us) know this healthcare system is rubbish and in dire need of a change, but people refuse to do anything about it. Why can't we just take a page from one of the 36 countries in front of us on that list and create a health care system that is universal? Sure the system will have its flaws, but anything is better than what we have now. -
Kudos to the talkbackers. Anythign with Michael Moore's name attached could potentially lead to name calling -fat, traitorous, etc- and there's been a little of that, but for the most part everyone's being civil and in mostly agreement about the problems.
-
My god, I love that shit. Keep your hippie weed, give me the PURE
-
This is a fact and look http://tinyurl.com/577wa I have a source *gasp*. Almost 1.5 million people went bankrupt in 2001 and medical bills were the primary factor in almost half of those cases. 3/4 of those people had health insurance when their illness started and 56% were middle class and owned a home. Best health care system in the world?
-
is the same. I kid you not.
-
ranked 23rd in the world.
-
The more I find out about him, and observes his actions, the less I like him.Sure, he writes a decent review, but what an asshole.
-
...said that I california he wants to make it illegal for you NOT to have health insurance. In other words, health insurance will be mandatory,like car insurance. Those who cannot afford health insurance will be "assisted" by the gov't. I didn't watch the whole interview becuz Red Green was on the other PBS channel.(BTW Canadians, why is he funny?)
-
Stupid Sexy Moriarty! 9/11 was a great movie! It was just a movie, right? That shit didn't really happen...did it? Damn you, Fake Moriarty!
-
By the by, I think I've contributed about as much to this conversation as you have BSB. I called Michael Moore a queer and said that people should buy their own healthcare.
You called me a troll.
That's one insult for me and one on-topic post for me and only one insult for you.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaah. -
and their dynamic is the key to AICN. They're like the ying & yang of geekdom... Harry the fun-loving, freak-flag-flying bohemian super-enthusiast, Mori the prickish, uptight reactionary.
I have been reading AICN for a hell of a long time and Mori has grown on me, although I do usually disagree with his opinions. But he has paid a hell of a lot of dues both online & now in Hollywood, and like the contrast between his & Harry's attitudes is always interesting. -
One of the main reasons healthcare costs so much in this country is the overly inflated costs of malpractice insurance brought about by stupid lawsuits from stupid people. Yes I am looking at you former Senator John Edwards (who made millions and millions on cerebal palsy malpractice lawsuits). Its also stupid to leave the awarding of monetary compensation up to a jury because they treat it like a lottery, giving as much as himanly possible to people.
-
Just tried to milk me. That was uncalled for.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! -
it's hardly the main reason for healthcare costs. The average payout for a tort case is about $3,000. It's not the crisis the media wants you to think it is. I'm all for paying higher taxes for decent health care, since I pay a shitload for crappy health care as it is. From my point of view, it can't be any worse.
-
You don't have to be a Republican to dislike F-9/11. Now, are you trying to bait Mori or are you just stupid?
-
Stupid Sexy Mr. Nice Gaius!
-
"my work is done" I was refering to the fact I was up late at night working on a game. hehe. not the other way of reading that.
-
Coupla quick points:
Lotsa people keep mentioning Cuba. Seem to be wingers with some sorta Cuba fixation. Guess what? The section of the movie you're thinking of is NOT about comparing US and Cuban healthcare! No! That's ok, you're just talking about a movie you haven't seen, just heard about on winger blogs prob'ly. No, the section you're thinking of compares US Healthcare to the healthcare that TERRORIST SUSPECTS recieve in GITMO! That's why they all went to Cuba - to get to Gitmo, and ask if they could get the same healthcare that the prisoners get for free. So all yr yapping about the Cuban healthcare system is uh kinda besides the point dontcha think?
Second point: some people in Europe, and some people in the UK, have the urge to snipe at the US, for whatever reason. They don't HATE the US, but they don't give it much of a fair shake. I've lived in the US for a while, on a couple of occasions, and I say there's a lot to like about it. A number of things it does well, and some things it is the best at. If I was gonna live anywhere outside the UK, it would be Canada or the US. But if you said to me "name something dysfunctional about America's political/economic structure, name the worst thing", there is ONE thing I could confidently mention. One thing where there's no arguements, no weighing of opinions, it's just shit... And that's your healthcare. Our own system in the UK has definite problems. But really, and I say this as someone who admires a lot about the US, who can probably name a few areas it beats out my own country in, I tell you as a friend: your healthcare is a load of shit, and anyone arguing it's the 'best in the world' is simply an ignorant dumbass. Many countries around the world, when looking at their own healthcare say "well, at least we don't have the American system". Parties win elections by simply suggesting that their opponents want to bring in "US-style healthcare"!
If you are American and not in favour of Health reform, you are the definition of dumb.
On the other hand, thanks for making the UK's own somewhat ropey system look good in comparison! Cheers :-) -
but even a couple years ago as my wife and I were getting an education and working multiple jobs so we could get great careers... we couldn't get insurance for a bried time. During that time my wife had a sudden growth under her chin. Sudden as in 2 days. She went to the ER. They expected it was fast growing cancer. Turned out to be something that went away with anti-biotics. What didn't go away so easy? The bills. They cost more than half of what we earned a year. Now... what do you think it does when you are already killing yourself to get that great career with the perks like insurance when you get sideswiped by something that eats half a years earnings? You get FUCKED. I finally have the great career but we went thru the no furniture and barely having money to eat and no buying shit stages for quite a while to push thru. We had to, cause we knew we'd never get anywhere in life if we didn't keep going. But it nearly crippled us completely. One out of the blue thing. Do you know what it's like to have the doctor tell you they think you have fast(as in days) growing cancer out of the blue? FUCK YOU ASSHOLES who don't have enough of a fucking human heart enough to help people in situations like that because you have to pay taxes for it. And wait till the day you lose your job with benifits and are inbetween jobs during that period where you have to wait to get insurance and something like this fucks you out of the blue and you get set back for years... you'll be singing a different tune then.
-
I've lived in the US, Canada and England (born and bred), *everyone* complains about their health care system, but, having experienced all three systems I am genuinely afraid for people in America with no health insurance, it's completely insane. While there are no perfect free systems, not in Canada or England and we complain about it endlessly, we really don't know how good we have it.
-
That bull fucking shit is reason enough to fuck this private health care bullshit out the fucking window and have us all pay taxes to make sure we all ACTUALLY get fucking Health Care.
-
Lots!
-
And if you live in Seattle you feel that Scandanavian superiority complex from them darn near everyday.
-
LOL!!!
-
This film is going to be HUGE. I wonder how large of a release it's getting? I remember F-911 got a small release and blew the doors of the box office until it expanded. I wonder if they're going to charge out of the gate with this on 2000 screens instead of 200.
-
This term keeps popping up on the AICN talk-backs lately, and it's annoying. In the rich pantheon of liberal slurs for Republicans, "wingnut" may be one of the weakest entries on record. Looking at its definitions on urbandictionary.com (http://tinyurl.com/3336yz) "wingnut" has generally been used to describe someone who behaves strangely (or 'nutty'). Since I don't listen to Air America or NPR too often, maybe I missed it when liberals adopted it for trash-talking. It's worth pointing out that, out of context, "wingnut" could refer to either a right- or left-wing idealogue (yes, liberals, there are 'nuts' on both sides of the political spectrum). Maybe members the party of open-mindedness, empathy, and tolerance (that's you, right, Democrats?) should try harder when they create new aspersions to cast. That would elevate the level of our dialogue so much more, don't you think? :)
-
I have a United Healthcare PPO and before that I was on crapply Aetna PPO through my school, except that, it wasn't really a PPO but an HMO because I had to go to the school docs in order to get a referral for specialist. Well, the shit hits the fan and I become seriously ill with bizzare symptoms everywhere. My school sent me to all these quack assholes who were on Aeta's "list" of in-network doctors. They couldn't figure it out, I saw about a dozen of them from a variety of different specialities. The in-network docs give you literally five mintues before they hussle you out the door to let in the next poor slob. If you don't have symptoms that are easily diagnosable good luck, because as soon as you leave that room they don't think about you. They just tell you to come back in two weeks. I did end up paying more to see some out of network docs that were far more competent. They were the doctors who cared more about helping people than by hussling as many people in and out to please the insurance companies. It took about 2 1/2 years and more than 30 doctors including a trip to the Mayo Clinc, where I was finally diagnosed, to get things under control. It cost me tens of thousands of dollars even with insurance before I even got proper treatment! And!! I only got into the Mayo Clinic because my sister's boss happened to be friends with a former director of the Clinic who called and got me in right away. Otherwise I'd have to wait 9 months or fly there and wait at the various specialities to see if I could get in because of cancelations. The Mayo long waiting list I somewhat understand, it is without a doubt one of the greatest clinics in the world for healthcare. They can diagnose the most rare and difficult diseases, it angers me though that gay ass politicians check themselves in for "alcoholism" or "obesity." Fuck that, open up some space for people with real problems! The quality of healthcare in the US is superb, if not the best in the world, but *only* if you can afford it and have a good insurance company. I have a pretty good one now with United Healthcare PPO, but even they refused to cover several expensive tests because it didn't "fit my condition," which was pretty gay considering they diidn't know what the hell my condition was at the time! Bah, humbug!
-
Definitely happened. Going to the doctor's office is for the most part a long term scam for the doctor. He's still doing his job but its not uncommon for a lot of doctors to make you set up an appointment just to tell you you're fine. You're probably paying $200 just for that whole setup.
-
I get the impression he considers it his job to entertain and to stir up the pot. So frelling what if Cuba's lower on the list than the US? BTW Moore took the rescue workers to Cuba because Cuba happened to be the closest county to Guantanamo, where they got no love (not even from one of President Bush's gynecologists). Cuba's a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. The US is the richest nation in history, by a country mile. The public is being gamed by a for-profit health care industry, and the result is people are suffering and too often expiring instead of being healed. Every time I hear a politician - from any political party - talk up how this is the greatest nation blah blah blah I think, then how come we're not proving it by providing better education and better health care for everyone here than any other nation?
-
You work in the healthcare industry. I completely believe you. You sound like the kind of guy that would. Did you do credit card collections previously?
-
Uhmmm...Guantanamo Bay in Cuba is considered american soil. So by going to guantanamo, he is not praising cuba or cuba's health system. He is still on american soil. Second, he is making a point that our politicians all fight healthcare for it's people, forcing many into poverty or to make life and death decisions...but potential terrorists get free, top of the line healthcare.
-
perhaps his point is not that Cuba is better than the US, but that even in a country like Cuba you can get decent healthcare of 9/11 workers than on the mainland? Either way, Michael Moore's documentaries are like others, they contain a lot of truth laced with a lot of his own grandstanding and self back patting. Thats fine with me, as long as people can look beyond that and realise that at the heart of his movies there is often a lot of truth. Healthcare here is fucked, and no socialized medicine is not the best answer, it is a mix of the two. The UK and Australia seem to be better than the US. Insurance companies suck...and anyone who thinks they have it bad because of lawsuits are idiots. Even Fox news seems to think this documentary is good.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273875,00.html does that make you guys feel better? -
were a good predictor of a movie's future box-office, Snakes on a Plane would have been #1 in 2006.
My prediction: Sicko will be lucky to do a fraction of F9/11's box-office. Why? 1) F9/11 was more controversial and dealt with a subject that was THE story in America at the time (and still is), 2) While health care is a big issue for many, it's inherently boring movie subject matter (no dead US soldiers, burnt childrens' bodies or Abu Gharaib pictures to expoloit; no way to sensibly fit Jimmy Hendrix into the soundtrack, etc.) 2) Bush-haters went to F 9/11 in droves, acting as though their ticket purchases for a Bush-bashing film were votes for Kerry. Sicko, though, supposedly attacks "both sides of the aisle", and, probably most important, 3) Moore, in the eyes of many, compromised his credibilty with F9/11; he is no longer seen as the witty iconoclast but rather the "disigenuous filmmaker", as described so aptly by John McCain.
So, Like Jimmy Carter's Nobel Peace Prize and the Dixie Chick's Grammy, I'm sure the film will win all kinds of awards from liberal Hollywood. It may have a big opening weekend (left-wingers trying to make a statement), but in the end, Sicko will have no legs. -
I hope he hits the drug companies too.
It's more profitable for drug companies to keep suppling treatment instead of dumping those R&D dollars into cures. This is where a lot of healthcare dollars go. There have been no signficate breakthroughs in medical drug treatment in over 30 years. Yes, better performance or extending life, but only so people can live longer to use more of their drugs...no cures...for anyhting!
This is first hand experience from someone who's used more than 2.5 million dollars of medication...and it's not HIV. I only say that because people think only HIV treatment is ultra expensive when there are many other issues that cost even more.
AND I'll be "in the system" for at least another 60 years and another 7+ million. Yeah, I can afford that without insurance...not. -
nice political bullshit. every word. well done. how does it feel to not think for yourself? you think, that much is clear, but everything you said was politalk. hey, cool, i just made up a new term. politalk. sounds like polly talk. sweet.
-
And we're all going to die. Pray to God if you believe, spite all the other people if you don't. Make love not war, or just masturbate at home alone in front of your TV screens and PC monitors. No one cares about you, but you have a friend in me. Just don't touch my stuff, even though no one has anything of value. Power and money corrupts and I know Hell is real, I have worked in retail.
If people cannot even have the common courtesy to put things back where they found them when they go shopping, how can we expect anyone to do their part in fixing problems and saving the world?
The majority of the human race is scum, and the rest of us either try fruitlessly to change things or we just bury our heads in the sand.
There's nothing you can do, so just sit back, relax, and hope for a quick death. This message was not brought to you by the Church Of Latter Day Saints. -
Just as I hope yours are your own. I am an educated adult, capable of examining issues from both sides and forming my own opinions. Nobody tells me what to think. Do you assume I am not "thinking for myself" just because my political views may differ from yours? I respect your positions (although I may disagree with some of them). I don't think you've been brain-washed by pundits, either. Please give me the same benfit of the doubt-
BTW I'll take "politalk' over 'wingnut' any day -
Ok. Fair enough.
-
Definitley applicable to both sides of the extremists. I prefer the terms crazy asshole and mother fucker when calling extremists on either side names.
-
what kind of money is this film going to make? nowhere near fahrenheit numbers i should think but i really can't fathom how much.
-
Jeez, mate, for someone who preaches the love and caring for your brother all over the place, you sure are aggressive and downright violent with your rhetoric towards anyone who might disagree with you... well, at least I noticed from the brunt end of the stick.
-
for writing the funniest thing I've read all day: "Health Insurance premiums should be higher for assholes." Like all the best jokes, there's some truth in there.
-
My friend had a mamectomy, her entire left breast was removed due to a cancerous lump. She was home within 24 hours because her PPO refused to pay for more care. In other words, if she dies and gets off the rolls she's no longer a money looser.
-
Actually you're wrong, medication costs account for less than 10% of total health care costs in the United States. You can get a 60 day supply of Cholesterol medication for the cost of ONE doctor visit... Pharmaceutical companies are the new fancy American Bad guy like Tobacco and Liquor before them. For example, those fancy blood presure machines in your doctors office, that can also measure pulse and temperature, cost 3 GRAND each!!! I'm not hating on doctors, its the big Insurance companies that have fucked our medical system up. Doctors have to see over 40 patients a day in order to net an income of 100k or more. That's why your doctor spends about 2 minutes with you. United Health care wants the patient "room'd and gone" in 15 minutes or less and their only going to give the doctor a payment of $45 for it..... Managed care is what is killing our health care system.
-
Let's just use the term "FAG" from now on.
-
People dieing pisses me off. What can I say. People not giving a shit enough to help them, pisses me off even more. But I'd rather be a foul mouth mother fucker than a cheap ass mother fucker any day. But I am not talking rhetoric. See, that's the kind of bullshit that pisses me off. There's no real conversation when you label what I'm saying like that. I already told you I used to do radio. I know all the talking tricks. And I get pissed when I see people using them in a serious conversation. Fuck with me all you want about Transformers and Superman and King Kong... but this is real life we are talking about here and it deserves an honest open fair discussion. For the record, since I had gone to bed last night before your continued replies to me, I didn't say you DID have the upper hand in the converstation. I said "if you sound like you got the upper hand, then you win" and I was talking about what you think, not the reality. That you THINK you win the arguement because you SOUND like to you that you have the upper hand. Classic way to cheat in an argument. Which, doesn't ever actually help anything.
-
cause' I can call up my friends, meet them in the parking lot of my local theater, and proceed to kick the living crap out of each other. We can smash bottles over our heads, break bones and rupture internal organs; and after the ambulances come to pick up our damaged and broken bodies we don't have to pay a dime in medical costs.
Stay Classy Canada -
give everyone health care in the USA and they can all stop worrying about staying alive and healthy and focus on living life to it's fullest. this country is the wealthiest most unhappy place on earth because we threw out the most fundemental pieces of humanity and society: working together to live better. LIFE on a whole would be better in the USA. What country suffers from the most obesity? What country is the wealthiest and least educated? This country is fucked up... not because we are all idiots or just selfish, but because we are isolated.
-
... we don't take care of each other. we just look out for ourselves. that's not how you have a thriving society. we as a country have amazing potential, but most of it is wasted. everyone just decides that people are fuckers and that is it. well, i learned a lesson early in life about fuckers. back in grade school. they are called bullys. there's not a single bully who doesn't feel like a worthless piece of shit because someone is treating them that way. people who get treated like shit, treat people like shit. if we all start treating each other like we matter... all the 'stupid' people of the USA will start feeling like maybe their lives matter... that they can make them matter even more. people thrive best together. it's what makes our species so amazing. not our individual abilities. but what we can do together. THAT is why guarentueed health care for everyone in the USA is worth whatever it costs. because it will not only take care of everyone, but it will raise this country up from it's slump and make it great.
-
Yeah, you keep telling me you did a summer of radio while
you were in your early 20’s. Me too, that’s when got started. I sucked back then. I
sucked something fierce, like all radio newbies... like
you undoubtedly did. But I got a career out of sucking and learning how not to.
You think I’m using radio tricks on you, but I’m not. I’m
writing as a normal film geek, here, not as a talk show host, addressing all
your questions. I’m only using one trick – not from radio, but from the oldest
book. You’re upset because you can’t get me to stoop to your level. I won’t
insult you, and what you don’t see, is that I don’t need to, and that’s the trick,
bro, and everyone reading this talkback can see it plainly, whether they agree
with my arguments or not.
You’re the one who is angry all over the place, telling
people that they should go fuck themselves if they don’t agree with you… but I’m
wasting my time here, because your biggest frailty is your inability to read
clearly.
It’s been fun, and I enjoyed egging you on, but this topic
is dying, and our debate is over. I’ve just decided that it was, and I leave
with the upper hand - and this parting shot at ‘ya -
not because I may be right, but because, like I said, I didn’t stoop to your
level. I leave with my honor intact. Honor. Like Oxymoron… look
it up. You don’t know what these words mean. -
"Honor. Like Oxymoron… look it up. You don’t know what these words mean...
...but just know I wouldn't stoop to insults, like you do." -
My Grandmother -- God rest her soul -- died at the grand old age of 99. A short while after the funeral and whatnot, my parents were going over her final hospital bills, settling up with Medicare, etc., at which point they noticed a bill for SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS to a doctor they had never heard of. And trust me, they'd routinely go down to the hospital to sit with her or keep an eye on her. They literally knew everyone taking care of her on a first name basis. Yet in this case, for the life of them, they couldn't figure out "who" this person was, let alone "what" he had ever done to warrant billing her for several thousand dollars.So they went back to the hospital to check it out and they did discover "who" this mystery person was. It was a staff physician who literally HAD to walk by her room each day to get to his office given the hospital's actual hallway layout, at which point -- given the open door to her room -- he'd sometimes (and I do mean only SOMETIMES) wave at my Grandmother in a polite "Good morning" gesture. Mind you, he NEVER went in and actually talked to her or anything like that -- he just passed by the room and would wave or nod and be on his way.And yes, for THAT microsecond gesture, he felt he was due a "consultation fee." And once she passed on, either he (or the hospital) figured they might as well toss an extra few grand into the final charges for the heck of it. Hey, why not? The government's picking up the tab, so what's the harm in padding it a bit?So while I can't stand Michael Moore (personally I think he's an obnoxious blowhard who plays waaaaay too fast and loose with this thing called actual FACTS, never a good sign for a so-called "documentary" filmmaker) I already know it's a broken system when doctors who are not even tending to you, who have never talked to you or even poked at you once, can get away with backbilling SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS for simply walking by your fucking door!
-
Here’s some help:
ox·y·mo·ron n.
pl. ox·y·mo·ra or ox·y·mo·rons
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous
or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a
mournful optimist.
Now, if you were
really thin-skinned, you could, indeed, argue that the quote you lifted from my
final post to antonphd is an insult. But it’s not. It’s
an opinion. “Smug asshole.” Now that’s an insult. It’s the one you lobbed at me
in your first post to me. You know, the one that
rolled right off my back?
Funnily, and for the
sake of argument, I suppose that if you could be clever with the context in
which you use this insult, it could be considered an oxymoron. However, the
reader would have to accept some leeway in the definition of “smug.” I can’t
think of a way to make it work like that. I guess I’m not clever enough.
Your post reminds me of the song by Alanis
Morrisette, “Ironic.” The lyrics are a series of
contradictions, but they are not ironic…. It’s all a matter of perception, isn’t
it?
Cheers. -
• Business is legally obligated to profit.
• Profit is obtained by giving less and charging more.
To increase earnings you must consistently give less.
Draw that out over a long period of time.
-
This trailer is cut just like Moore's other movie trailers, aiming for lefties like me, playing up Moore's antics. However, the film itself includes very little of these stunts, and actually offers a good deal of personal accounts and archive footage. Recommended for anyone, as even the rating is only PG-13 unlike the R flicks before it.
-
Actually, we have three government-run health care systems that, properly funded and without insurance company involvement, have been quite effective. Armed Forces health care, the VA, and Medicare (pre-Bush 2). Now before you mention Walter Reed to me, I hasten to point out that Bush 2 forced Reed to hire a private contractor - for-profit entity like the insurance companies - and those fuckers were gaming the system for profit. Oh, and their board included GOP types like former VP Dan Quayle. I have personal recent experience with the VA. Bush 2 is underfunding and overburdening them now, but they still do a great job under the circumstances. Check out Kucinich's health care plan. Simple, to the point, and cuts out the frakking insurance companies.
-
They went, they laughed, they cried. Good thing MM ran 'Sicko' out of competition this year at the Cannes Film Festival. he probably would have won the Palme d'Or again as even the most steadfast and unforgiving critics are hailing MM's latest as a masterpiece. So you say, "Hey - high praise found in odd places like AICN TBs and the Cannes Film Festival do not a box office hit make." "Ahhh", I say, "but look at all of the controversy that has been stirred up in response to yet another idiotic knee-jerk by the administration..." This little shit storm stirred up by the wrong-wing think tanks will almost certainly give MM's film a major boost at the box office. Dumb asses.
-
We view health care as a business, unlike other nations that view it as a basic human right. We could use a change of perspective on this.
-
Mike only put on film that which he could back up with evidence, and he had to stick to a point -- otherwise the movie would be a 16 hour miniseries. Seriously. * Now, all the others about how mean he was and partisan about Bush: there was no other way to tell the story. The movie was about Bush's morals and character, and how he and his extended corporate family sold a fake war and made a fortune, shut down our constitutional democracy and scaring us all to death as a matter of domestic policy. There is no "balance" to offer. He and Fox lied and lied hard. They are still lying. And the ashes are still falling, New Orleans is being colonized by neocons, and Osama bin Laden IS STILL ON THE LOOSE.
-
will hate Mike Moore. Some Americans just plain hate people who act smarter or more informed than they are, especially if those people are right. Gore's entire press gaggle admitted they hated him because he made them feel stupid, while Bush's press bunnies liked him because he made them feel smart and part of the bar-b-que. If Mike was in high school, those smartie-haters would be holding his head in the toilet and stealing his books. As it was in Twain's day, so it is now.
-
by your syllogism, the only answer to our problems is that we collapse, since we can't have "socialized" medicine (and Moore strongly points out that that was a PR term created by the insurance industry) and we can't fix what we have. BUT. France is not a small nation, neither is Canada. Their systems scale with population, so size doesn't seem a factor. We seem to have an ideological problem, an obsession with government as a problem rather than as expression of our will, and a firm belief that everything, even our health and lives, is just another service industry where you trim costs and endlessly expand prices. The doctors started the greed cycle, but the insurance industry has turned it into a Greek tragedy, with 25-35 percent profit margins which STILL AREN'T ENOUGH, never will be enough. And as Moore points out, the very lawmakers who puff up about "socialized medicine" are the recipients of the very best taxpayer paid health care in the world, and will be until they die at a ripe old age.
-
Speaking as a non-American, how do people figure this is political? Was health care really awesome under Clinton/Demcrats, and it is only since Bush, or has this shit been going on no matter which political party is in "power"? I'm no fan of Michael Moore's either...
-
Mike and we aren't leftists: the left classically is communists and socialists, which exist almost everywhere in the world where corporatists haven't cleaned out the competition. what mike is, what i and almost all the US are, are what used to be defined as the middle or the no-so-far right. we don't want the triumph of the socialist workers paradise, we only want the country we had in 1958 back from the far rightists who eliminated unions, domestic industry, the middle class, pay raises, sufficient incomes, cheaper college educations, Social Security and Medicare trust funds not looted to cover tax losses caused by cuts, non-interference in foreign affairs, good well-financed public schools, CONSISTENTLY good & cheaper health care, good journalism, balanced media, a strong dollar, and the ability to call the president and his party liars without being visited by the secret police, you know, what WE USED TO BE before Nixon, Reagan, and the two Bushes. We want Eisenhower back, he who warned us that the bastards were coming to sell us eternal war.
-
it's a function of age. I can remember what it was forty years ago and most of you can't. it's not a change that happened since Clinton. As mike points out, Nixon was the man who sold out the system we had to the insurance companies, and he has the taped conversations from the White House to prove it. Nixon wanted a for-profit "free market" health care system, and it took decades to bear fruit. And ye Gawds, Clinton tried to fix it with that plan that gave the insurance companies control, and that wasn't good enough for them -- they wanted no controls, no rules, just power, and they executed his wife and a pretty impressive wonk squad for even trying. now, we have the non-socialist super-free market system for those who aren't Congressmen or vets, and BEHOLD, we are being raped. Who would have thunk a shareholder-profit-driven paradigm would kick out the sick and charge the healthy outrageous fees, and never get their fill of our money?
-
Sorry about that. Um, it's political in the U.S. The Republicans are free-market ideologues who want no government say in what insurance companies pay or charge. They are pure corporatists, and weirdly anti-government, seeing as how they are the government. Very Zen. Now the Democrats are traditionally populists, and once favored what most countries would recognize as normal governance, ie oversight of corporate power and public programs for this and that. However, because in the US corporations are people, and the US Supreme Court in a spectacularly asinine decision stated that money is equivalent to free speech, which is guaranteed to people in our 1st Amendment, corporations since the 80s have been able to literally buy our lawmakers by financing their campaigns with funds that are mostly used to by TV ads. Follow me so far? Without those billions, you can't buy enough TV ads and you lose elections. * Before the Reagan era, TV stations were *required* to carry candidate's speeches and also to air commercials for free, as a public obligation. Reagan's people killed that law, so now we've let corporations buy our government so that the lawmakers can buy TV ads so they can get elected. So.... the Democrats have had to become as corporate friendly as the Republicans always were, just to stay in power, this past half century. So the two parties converge in ideology because BOTH are now indebted to corporate money . Hope that helps answer the political point. And to put it nastily, the Republican's base are convinced poor people are stealing their money, while the Democrats' base know damned well the real thieves have always been the no-government free marketeers.
-
I'd probably agree and say he would mention the NHS here in Britain. Although, it might have a lot of problems to iron out, it's free and provides a great service! (Except waiting times!)
-
Though i have to agree Micheal Moore can be a fucking ball of annoying hot air, it's good to know that someone besides me is talking about the miserable state of America's health care. I have MS and as such the only reason I can pay the $1500+ for the meds is because of the student insurance. Now some say when i graduate, I can get new insurance through whatever job I get. Yeah that's great but then there's the bullshit "pre-existing condition" clause in most insurance plans that is only illeagal in 3 states that I know of. And all of that is just the tip of the iceberg with the problems that I have with the healthcare here. I'm looking forward to what Moore has to say about it all.
-
You're a twit, plain and simple. And condescending as all hell. But you say you run a radio talk show, so I guess those are just professional attributes in your case.
You say to Anton you wouldn't bring yourself to his "level" by hurling insults at him, then you claim he's not intelligent enough to know the meaning of two commonly used words.
Contradictory much?
Pretty it up as much as you need so to believe you're taking the high road, but the fact remains, you're a dick and you know it. -
Do you have any idea what kind of expertise it takes to do anything in the medical field? I mean think about the fact that Harry has at least somewhat generous proportions and how this will effect any sort of intervention that is going to be placed on him. If he has to go to surgery, his big ass neck is going to be a problem for intubation, not to mention the fact that his likely has sleep apnea which is going to make getting him off a ventilatory machine a nightmare. That and god forbid something goes worng because his fat ass means that he has numerous cormorbid conditions including diabetes which causes a delay in the healing process, that he is going to need rehab because his body is so deconditioned (check any picture of this guy) and he is likely one of these people that will sue at a drop of a hat because of post-operative complications that are likely due to his own body habitus and it is no wonder the bill goes up and up. One of the most over looked facts in the increaseing cost of health care in this country is two fold. One, hospitals are sued all the time for taking on the liability of treating patients that are 100% likely to have conditions that are self-induced that lead to complications. Second, since these same people are not likely to pay a bill the hospitals have to absorb the cost of their own treatment - this is not cheap. Third, people love to talk about how cheap other countries' health care is - but what they forget in most of the places you can't sue or you can't sue for a whole lot - e.g. in India a cost heavy surgery like a heart bypass is relatively cheap but if something goes wrong you can only sue for up about $2000.00. This is the main reason why countries with socialized healthcare charge less. Oh and another thing, I am sure that Harry's leg was fixed that day - if this had been anywhere else he might have to wait up to a month to get his leg fixed. of course by that time - it would have to be re-broken and then re-set.
-
...I actually feel rather dumb sticking to a flame war when all the other posters above are making intelligent, valid points about the film and its message.
I'm very glad to see so many people in this TB interested in what this doco covers, whether or not they're even fans of Moore. I've read more than a handful of posts saying, "I don't like the guy either, but at least SOMEONE is taking up this fight." And to me, that's promising. In terms of political discussions in general, that is. I mean, I'm a firm non-conservative, but I do believe that even if Republicans can just look at what the issues are about, we all have a lot to agree on. Namely, the fact that we don't (or at least we shouldn't) want to have the conditions of our lives dictated by corporate regulations and greed.
There is the small percentage, though, who argue that our health care system is the way it should be, and that it's just the way it goes, and I just cannot understand what it is going through their minds, believing that human beings --American human beings (that whole "American" thing usually stirs up feelings of pride and invigoration in these people,) -- should be treated like nothing more than simple economic factors for these companies.
Honestly, those of you who defend this industry as a business, plain and simple... if your child got leukemia or some other horrible condition, and you had to acquire medical coverage, you would find out damn quick just how much good their "earnings and profit margin" will do for you and your family. When you find yourself on that side of the equation, I want you to come back then and defend their business practices.
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 325 total posts 322 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 106 total posts 106 posts
- HANNA's Saoirse Ronan to boss around seven little people -- 63 total posts 60 posts
- Does ‘SNL’ Rhyme With ‘Deschanel’?? Learn Which SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE Vet Hosts After Sexy Zooey!! -- 74 total posts 58 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 159 total posts 51 posts
- If the Behind the Scenes Pics of the Day drops her pen, pick it up, but don’t look at her legs or else it will be on your record. -- 47 total posts 41 posts
- AVENGERS enemy revealed as pink boardgame pieces... You might suffer some form of elation... SPOILERS!!! -- 161 total posts 34 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 488 total posts 33 posts
- Friday Brings SWEEPS DAY NINE!! Gab Here About Tonight’s FRINGE!! Plus Einstein on TIM, Wiig On PORTLANDIA, MAHER, CLONE, GIFTED, GRIMM, SPARTACUS, SUPERNATURAL, GOLD RUSH And More!! -- 121 total posts 23 posts
- Here's The Red Band Trailer For Drafthouse Films' THE FP! -- 70 total posts 20 posts