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LA Film Geeks! This Week’s Thursday Night Event With Moriarty Is TRANSFORMERS: THE MOVIE!
Hey, everyone. ”Moriarty” here.
Earlier tonight, I ran into Leo Quinones at the very first screening anywhere of PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN 3: AT WORLD’S END, and we talked for a few minutes about this event we’re co-hosting on Thursday night. I’ve hosted several of these now at Cine-Space, and I’m really enjoying the venue and the great people who run the place.
Leo and I talked about this week’s screening, and how we’re not really the target audience for it. We’re hosting it, though, because we both appreciate just how important TRANSFORMERS: THE MOVIE is to a generation that’s slightly younger than us. If the last year has taught me anything, it is that this is a property that is beloved. I always thought of it as a crass toy commercial, but when you see the passion that the fanbase has, the way they feel about it, it’s hard to dismiss that.
So I’m looking forward to this. I want to see all of you TRANSFORMERS fans come out to see the real TRANSFORMERS movie on a bigscreen together. This is a great place to do it, too, and the guest we’re going to be interviewing should make the evening a real treat.
Check out the details here:
This week's DINNER & A MOVIE: THURSDAY NIGHT SPECIAL celebrates not only the 20th anniversary of the original Transformers Movie, but also uses our signature Q&A session to delve into the emerging field of writing and directing for video games. This week's guests are FLINT DILLE and DANIEL SUAREZ.
Along with our regular Thursday night partners, AINTITCOOL.com, 97.1 FREEFM, NYFA, Golden Apple Comics, Dude, Seriously and Japan L.A., this week UNION ENTERTAINMENT joins us for this very special series. Union Entertainment is the video game company responsible for this season's upcoming release, The Darkness, a next gen video game already being highly praised by the media and industry as a must have title. Union has also been hosting the video game/film/comic book professionals networking event, Union Night, which they have now officially moved to cinespace on Thursdays.
If you haven't been to a D&M: TNS, it starts with a media mixer in the front lounge at cinespace with half off appetizers and two-for-one drinks, then moves into the theater for a lively and informal Q&A with the writer, producer, director of stars of the evening's film hosted by Drew McWeeny from AINTITCOOL, Leo Quinones from 97.1 and a professor from NYFA. You are offered cinespace's full dinner and drink menu while you watch the film. Afterwards, you're invited to stay for the Thursday Night club at cinespace.
And all you have to do to be part is RSVP to cinespace at 323-817-3456!
Details:
WHAT: The Transformers: The Movie with special guests, FLINT DILLE and DANIEL SUAREZ for DINNER & A MOVIE: Thursday Night Special
WHEN: THURSDAY, MAY 17th, from 6pm to 10pm (public nightclub begins at 10pm). Q&A starts promptly at 7:30 p.m.
WHERE: cinespace, 6356 Hollywood Blvd, Los Angeles CA 90028, just West of Hollywood and Vine.
RESERVATIONS: 323-817-3456
While the Happy Hour/Mixer is open to all with no qualifications, you must RSVP to cinespace for DINNER & A MOVIE: Thursday Night Special via phone.
There will be special drink and appetizer offers throughout the night; DINNER at cinespace starts at just ten dollars. Theater seating requires ordering food.
Info about our guests:
Flint Dille: If you’re a video game enthusiast, or an 80’s animation cartoon aficionado, or a horror movie addict, then you’re probably familiar with the work of Flint Dille. Flint’s credits include writing, producing and/or designing major video games such as the multi-award winning, CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK: ESCAPE FROM BUTCHER BAY, DEAD TO RIGHTS, CONSTANTINE, SUPERMAN RETURNS, TEEN TITANS, and TOMORROW NEVER DIES, among many others. Flint just completed work on the video game adaptations of summer blockbuster films, FANTASTIC FOUR 2 and TRANSFORMERS. Flint was a producer on the successful horror film, VENOM, and was a writer of AN AMERICAN TAIL: FEIVEL GOES WEST. Flint’s television animation credits include TRANSFORMERS, GI JOE, INHUMANOIDS, and MISTER T. Flint Trivia: Frank Miller based the character, Dilios the Storyteller, in the graphic novel/film, 300, on his good friend, Flint Dille. Flint is also “Flint” of GI JOE fame, and is rumored to be the Beast of Disney’s Beauty and the Beast (ask him for details).
Daniel Suarez – Executive Producer, Activision Publishing, Inc
Daniel Suarez is an Executive Producer at Activision and is managing product development for Transformers: The Game, based on the highly anticipated summer film, Transformers. At Activision, Suarez has managed the development of multiple projects including, Over the Hedge, as well as id Software’s eagerly awaited Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. Prior to joining Activision, Suarez served as the VP of Product Development for Mobility Entertainment and oversaw the development of cell phone projects such as Tiger Woods Golf, Lord of the Rings, Gladiator and Def Jam. Prior to Mobility Entertainment, Suarez was at Vivendi Universal Games where he managed video games projects including The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay and the Crash Bandicoot franchise. Suarez has also held positions at Disney Interactive and Saban Entertainment working on multiple films based properties including Disney’s Tarzan.
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That is all.
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you know it to be true
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...at the opening ceremony of the FedCon in Bonn (Germany) on June 8. Usually I'm there every year. This time not. Crap. I'm not kidding when I say that this is one of the greatest audiences ever!
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Everyone sitting at a table... throwing up their hands and saying.... DAMN YOU MICHAEL BAY! DAMN YOU MICHAEL BAY! and stuffing their faces with salami...
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Thats what`s really interesting here....
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sorry
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Bruce Willis, and the audience will clamor in joy as he calls Michael Bay a wanker.
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News of the century! You throw this comment in EVERY SINGLE TIME you talk Transformers, Mori. We get it, you weren't in to them. Next thing you know Harry will be telling us he hasn't read the Harry Potter books!
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... sorry. Like I said, I've come around to seeing how important it was to many of you, and I am, after all, hosting this screening of the film, hoping that maybe with a crowd of true believers, I'll see something of what you guys see in it. Stranger things have happened.
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May 15, 2007 8:19:20 AM CDT
Well, at least mori is learning his lesson on this one.
by thegreenstyle
Still, wasn't making a movie about the Pirates of the Carribean ride a somewhat crass (and desperate) attempt on Disney's part to try to dredge up some property, ANY property, to hang a commercially viable franchise on? But hey, it worked out pretty well for them, even if it was born in a board room by a bunch of rich old guys saying, "Well, here's my idea of how we can make ourselves possibly even more stinking rich." I mean, I like the first one, the second one not so much, but I'll still check out the third one.
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It's a really nice gesture Moriarty, but I contend it's a false lead. I know. You read so many people on the internet saying how wonderful it is, and you don't see it but you have to trust it if it's getting this kind of reaction. But, as a transformers fan, the movie still sucked. All the cool autobots die cheap, the cool decepticons die cheap, Prime dies, and he gets a heroic death but it's still at the end of the first act. And they're all replaced with the new characters that everyone fucking hates.
So, I would suggest, if you really want to get at the heart of what makes Transformers so beloved and memorable to it's fans, it's better to binge on the DVD set of the first season. Get the origin and the early stories that show all the characters we really care about. It was on DVD for a while, but is now out of print. (Sony BMG did have vague plans to reissue it this year, but they're folding, so who nows.) But I'm sure a man with your resources can find the older copies. Shoot, if you really ask me nice, and promise to send them back when you're done, I'd send you mine. Because I really think it's in that first season of the show, not that animated movie, where the heart of the fandom lies. -
sounds like a fucking blast...
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May 15, 2007 8:49:25 AM CDT
I think Mori's just reminding us where he's coming from
by dead youngling
not everyone is a long time reader. And he's doing the right thing by seeing the movie with fans. I hope he's swayed--and from another point of view--i'm a huge TF fan, and I love the movie!
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crazy arse diehards who should know better...fucking toy commercial...jeeze
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It was epic sci-fi on a fantastic scale, covering the whole galaxy and a timeline of millions of years - great writing, great music, beautiful animation, dynamic battles, a cast of hundreds of unique characters, and all for kids.. If there's anything I don't get, it's this slightly older generation that doesn't understand that. Perhaps the problem is viewing the movie in isolation.. it's really only the bridge between the awesome first and second seasons and the fairly disappointing (though darker and more ambitious) third season.
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I finally watched the animated movie, and you know what? I didn't give a shit about the characters. It was boring.
Apparently, it was metophorical, sure, but I didn't give a damn. I didn't understand the genesis of the conflict.
I like the cheesy 80s soundtrack, it's the only element that kept me sane.
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Transmformers>>>>>Thundercats>HeMan. Not just to me, to geekdom in general. A lot of what makes things geek-approved is the ease with which it transfers to geek-reference. So the names "Optimus Prime" "Autobot" "Decepticon" "Megatron" "Starscream" Soundwave", etc. plus the memorable tags "Robots in Disguise" and "more than meets the eye", "Transform and roll out", PLUS the autbot and decepticon emblems makes Transformers uniquely marketable. Thundercats has the cool thundercats symbol, the phrase "sword of omens", a few crappier names, and the phrase "Thundercats, ho", while all He-Man really has is "By the Power of Greyskull".Plus Transformers had a movie, and was much, much better than the others.
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That is why I'm pushing so hard to get people to understand that the movie is not acutally represenative of the original transformers. If you watch the first season of the show, I think you'd understand it better.
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strongly consider showing the Transformers 3-part pilot "More than Meets the Eye" with or instead of the movie. It's much more represenative about what the franchise is all about.
This movie is terrible. The movie is awful. the movie is a betrayal. Please please understand. If all you ever try to see is that original movie, you will NOT get it. You NEED to see the show.
And you know what? that's why I'm more forgiving of Bay's film than most. It gets a lot wrong, but at the end of the day its STILL closer to the actual spirit of the transformers show than the animated movie ever ever was. -
I loved Transformers as a kid, I have the first season DVDs, and I still love the animate movie. Maybe it's because I always liked the Decepticons more than the autobots anyway.
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I'll give the season 1 toon a shot. Transformers was omnipresent when I was a kid - I remember enjoying the animated series whenever it was on.
Even though I think Michael Bay is about as subtle as a naked woman in a church with a crucifix on her chest, I'm actually excited about the picture - I feel dirty. I just hope Bay doesn't edit it to death and it's all about character so the action sequences have an emotional resonance - I don't see that happening. -
That line in the song We Care A Lot by Faith No More. That's pretty funny. Other than that, pretty much a waste of time.P.S. Was that a subtle cock tease at the beginning, Mr Moriarty? Have you, in fact, seen The Adventures Of Johnny Depp Part III?
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I had the good fortune of meeting Flint Dille a couple of years ago at a conference. He is an excellent public speaker with a wicked sense of humor. If you are from that 80s era or really like that stuff, you would do well to make this event. Based on his involvement alone, I can guarantee that you will have a great time.
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I'm jealous. Nice event. Enjoy LA people.
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traumatic. Every single toy i had bit the big one in like a 10 minute span. I was especially pissed about ironhide
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didn't even get a send off. They just showed him dead haha
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And I'm just young enough to have seen it in the theater twice. Then somebody showed a copy on the campus TV station when I was in college and I realized: Mom was right! This movie is just a noisy nonsensical mess. Now, I still love the classic Transformers from a design perspective and as a nostalgia piece, but honestly, it was all about selling toys.
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You got the power. Yeah, it's a two-hour toy commercial. But the toys were (and are) cooler than most.
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EGO, brotha. It'll kill your career faster than lack of writing skills.
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Sure the cartoon was just a way to sell toys but there were other shows that had the same purpose that wasn't as good. HE-MAN was corny and GOBOTS which had the same concept as TF sucked ass. With TRANSFROMERS and GI:JOE they actually put some thought into the characters and action and made it to a very cool show in comparison to the other 80s shows. Only THUNDERCATS topped them in terms of American made action cartoons.
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I would have been almost obligated to be there given how much bitching I've done about the new film, and man is that an obligation I would have loved to fulfill. Wish it could have happened next week. Dammit.
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It's nice to see the TF Movie getting its due instead of TINO.
But to be honest Transformers The Movie isn't totally great. I didn't realise it as a child but the film basically stops being good as soon as they kill off Optimus Prime. Everything leading up to that, including Prime kicking Megatron's ass with "The Touch" playing in the background is pure gold. After that I generally turn the DVD off, because Optimus Prime can't die! (;_;)
Once you've seen that iconic Prime/Megatron fight with the proper designs, TINO will look like the turd it is. Fucking Michael Bay. -
... he's right when he says the initial three parter is a better way to see the Transformers, as you get a much better view of how the Transformers arrived and how Prime will protect humanity no matter the risk to himself, whereas Megatron will just kill and take whatever he wants.
The only thing I can't agree with TheGreenStyle on is when he says he's forgiving of Michael Bay. That's just not right dude. -
I do believe that watching Ironhide get snuffed at point blank range by Megatron was probably the first time as a kid I understood what it felt like to want to REALLY kick the living hell out of someone. Of course, 20 minutes later when Prime died, I was too sad to care about that.
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While it may have started as one long toy commercial...it didn't stay that way. I mean, EVERY cartoon is/was a toy commercial. However, I don't remember any other cartoon connecting emotionally with an audience like this one did, especially with the deaths of characters. I mean...if Skeletor, Beast Man and Trap-Jaw gang raped Teela, euthanized Battle Cat and burned Grayskull to the ground, would you have REALLY cared? Would you still remember how it felt some 2 decades later? I still remember exactly how I felt the first time I saw the movie and watched those deaths and all that destruction. One hell of a "commercial".
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to appreciate the gravity of this flick. Giant transforming robots-wow, that's just fucking great. Where's the shiny red plot contrivance button hidden in this movie? Oh, its not hidden-its right in front of you all. The whole fucking thing is a toy ad. Silly brain-washed tools.
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Transformers were huge in cartoon and toy form when I was between 6 and 10. I was the EXACT right age for all that stuff and I LOVED it, ate it up, begged for every new toy that came out. But then once I edged toward pre-teenhood, that was pretty much it. I outgrew them. Never looked back. Heard they were making a movie and kind of rolled my eyes. I guess that makes me strange.
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A Transformer Movie talkback that's been up for almost 4 hours and less than 50 posts have been made? For shame.
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Why does it being a toy commercial make it bad? Seriously. Why?
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May 15, 2007 1:47:03 PM CDT
Mori, Cinespace is not for geeks. It just alienates us.
by thelivingdoll
What hardcore Transformers fan wants to sit back and sip cocktails in a expensive lounge environment? I'm sure this fits to your taste, but for us geeks you may want to look around for somewhere less stuck up its own ass if you're going to host things like Transformers there.
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Yeah, a nice-looking place that pours alcohol is wholly inappropriate for this event. Set up a huge projection screen in the parking lot of Toys R Us and hand out free cartons of Motts and Fruit Roll-Ups. That's the ticket!
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The 2 GI Joe movies were right up there with TF: The Movie. There is a slight He Man, Thundercats following, but not nearly to the extent of the TransFans.
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I'm going to have to side with Mori on this one.
I have to admit that as a kid I loved the toys - I had the truck, the microscope and the gun - and I even watched the cartoon. But that was back when I was little and plotlines and concepts didn't matter that much to me. Could I tell you anything about the story now? Nope. But I can tell you I was just as enthralled each day by GOBOTS.
If I'm missing something here, someone fill me in - seriously - but...robots from outer space? That's what we're supposed to get excited about? Robots from outer space? Not aliens, but robots that fight across the universe? I'm sorry to channel Iverson here, but ROBOTS?
At least VOLTRON had human components to the overall scheme, though I have to admit I don't remember a damn thing about that story either. And I understand nostalgia and seeing a pleasant part of your childhood realized on film, but can someone explain to me the draw of robots from outer space? The concept is where I check out on this one, and I can't remember being less excited for a Summer Blockbuster. -
for finally acknowledging and showing a modicum of respect for original Transformers fans for the first time EVER on this site. That said, "Damn you to rotten fucking hell Michael Bay!!!"
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"a real Transformers movie"? Was that supposed to be a joke? If so I'm not laughing.
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I liked it when I was a kid, but I saw it recently and was embarassed that I wanted to see it again as an adult. Really, folks, it's kiddie stuff.
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not a splooge-fest by a person who had never seen films or for that matter read a book. Both negative and positive, bring them on!
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It sounds as if this is for a showing of the old school 1986 Transformers Movie.
But some of the posts make me wonder if this is for the Michael Bay movie that has nothing to do with but steals the name sake TRANSFORMERS?
Anyone clear on what what movie will be shown on Thursday? -
That's because the cool characters all fucking DIE in the first 15 minutes.
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1. Unicron: a transforming freaking PLANET.
2. Grimlock's one-liners.
3. Spike says "Oh SHIT!" C'mon, I think that gave me my first wood.
4. Arcee has a nice ass. I was a weird kid.
5. Cutting edge violence and death scenes for what was essentially a kid's cartoon.
6. Closing a chapter on the Megatron/Starscream story line in dramatic and satifying fashion, probably the best story line from the original series.
7. And I'm gonna take hell from the Geekdom on this one... but the passing of the torch from a classic, archetypal hero to a more complex, tragic leader in Rodimus Prime. Granted, one that was not explored to its full potential.
okay now... hate away! -
A 'G.I. Joe' film from this guy had best be better than Bay's reworking of our fave battling bots.
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I read your entire post but it didn't dawn on me until reading the TB's that you were referring to the 80's animated feature and not Bay's. My bad.
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good point, and I'm so glad you didn't mention weird al's dare to be stupid because that would've ruined your point. why the fuck was that song even in there, was that the only song they could afford? Rodimus was great!
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I don't get it. You don't like the concept because it's about robots instead of aliens? Why are aliens better than robots?
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one of the same
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But I really liked that they were almost never portrayed as robots. They could be stupid, narcisstic, heroic, greedy, nerdy, power-hungry or whatever. And the cartoon gradually established that mechanical life was just as viable and established in the universe as organic life, it was simply an alternative. I totally agree with bentmywookie, Rodimus was a more interesting and complex character, and I enjoyed the the development of that idea for as long as it lasted.
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should've been clearer. Robots instead of organic alien lifeforms.
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By the same woolly logic the AICN and its reviews are all crass movie commercials.
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A friend of mine tells a great story about Transformers the Movie. His favorite character, bar none, was Ironhide so he went into the film with great expectations. Sure enough, there's Ironhide within the first five minutes. Oh wait, oh no it looks like Ironhide was shot...shot dead?!? Oh look, he's still alive. Wait, what's Megatron doing?!? NOOO!!!!!! But that wasn't enough. Later in the film, Hot Rod is wandering around inside of Unicron when he sees a bunch of transformers being conveyed on a belt into a molten pit, presumably to be transferred into energy to feed Unicron. On that belt was Ironhide! Would they save him? No, in fact they would watch him be dropped into the slag pool before springing into action. Talk about the original "raped my childhood" moment.
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... was a horrid abortion of an idea that some fucktard marketing person stuck in so Scotti Bros. could get their one "star" on the soundtrack.
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Ironhide resurrection = Stormtrooper head bump
I chalk up the continuity errors of Ironhide to the kitchy little details that only fanboys will notice but make the movie endearing to us that love it. They enhance the mystique of a film in the same way the original Star Wars had an endearing amateur look and feel. Sorry your friend had such love for ol' sticker-face. -
I think there's an obvious distinction there as you pointed out, as I'm far more willing to believe that there are other sentient, organic creatures in the universe that are here to destroy us (WAR OF THE WORLDS, ID4) than I am to suspend my disbelief that all of a sudden outer space-based robots fall out of the sky.
Since machines can't just originate from nothing - something has to build them - I'd be far more interested in whatever made the robots than the robots themselves. Or if the machines DID originate from something else...I'd want to know what the hell that was.
Again, I'm not claiming to KNOW the origins of the Transformers, and if there's a good explanation out there as to why gigantic, shape-shifting mechanized aliens are hitting the Earth, I'm willing to listen. But why the hell would alien robots need to turn into trucks or Volkswagon Beetles? Unless there's some really great story that I'm unaware of, I just think the whole idea is stupid - and no amount of special effects is likely to sway me. -
...my pet peeve with this project goes something like this:
If so many 80s kids hadn't been inundated with toy marketing and cartoons as per TRANSFORMERS, no one would have ever greenlit a story about alien robots fighting on Earth. Not even Travolta would have chased this down. TRANSFORMERS has a market not because so many are convinced it's a great story (I'M convinced relatively few could even pick out major plot points from the cartoon) but because it's a quirky, embedded signpost from umpteen childhoods and, therefore, there's a curiosity.
See also: DUKES OF HAZZARD -
Why did you click on a story about Transformers then? I'd spend the time to answer every one of your questions, but I suspect your just trolling just to get a rise out of some people. Does anyone else have the energy? Because apperently alien robots from outer space disguising themselves is a far out concept for Mr. Winston to wrap his brain around.
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So your problem with the robots is that they're less probably than organic life? I suppose that's true, but I don't see why that makes it a bad idea. Talking fish don't exist either, does that mean Finding Nemo was bad? What about The Iron Giant? Spider-Man? All improbable, at least as so as the Transformers. The origin of the Transformers in the cartoon is, basically, that they were created to be mechanized servants, but they grew advanced enough to have feelings and free will, and eventually rebelled. Personally, I think that's pretty interesting, especially as the rebelling robots are presented as freedom fighters as well as the evil conquering robots you see so often. In fact,t his is the basic difference between Autobots and Decepticons. I also find the whole idea of mechanical life that is, essentially, equal to or superior to biological life appealing. These aren't Terminators, they have human emotions and human weaknesses. As for why they turn into cars and whatnot, that's simple: they're robots in disguise. They were givne the ability to transform by their creators so they could work more efficiently (as tools or weapons), and when they came to earth they were redesigned to fit in with the environment around them . It's an advantage.
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Did it ever occur to you that I'm actively TRYING to understand why there are fans of this project? Isn't there the possibility that I MEANT what I said when I'm waiting for someone to explain the story to me so that the idea of outer space robots makes sense?
You can suspect all you want, and I'll tell you what: even if you "had the energy" to explain this to me, I might still think it's bullshit. And since there's a forum here and since it's related to TRANSFORMERS, I figured I'd not only express my ambivalence, as a movie fan, towards the film but try to understand why some people feel exactly opposite the way I do. Or, sorry - is that too "far out a concept" for you to wrap YOUR brain around?
To answer your thinly-veiled parting question: yes. Outer space robotic aliens who shape-shift into Earth-specific inorganic entities even though they've been fighting all over the universe and that appear to have no Alpha point of conception is quite a bit much to wrap my head around. Care to help make sense of it all for me, or you just want to flap in the breeze? -
Another story regarding the same friend. While driving to the movies, we got to talking about "The Abyss". My friend was a huge Cameron fan, and enjoyed the film. It turns out, though, that he *despised* the special edition and his praise was solely for the original theatrical release. When queried, my friend mentioned that he hates movies where "the world is saved through love", which is the tack the special edition of the film takes. He went off on a rant about those kinds of films that was quite humorous. Unfortunately, we started the conversation late and our arrival at the theatre cut it short. The movie we were going to go see? The opening night showing of "The Fifth Element". True story.
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That second story is hilarious.
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Probably more than any of the other cartoons and probably more for their potential than the actual product itself. But of course that is with most forms of entertainment. Transformers was the most developed of the three. The iconic designs and mythic elements are imaginative and inspiring. Optimus Prime and Megatron are fully realized characters. He-Man also has a few episodes that are very well done and I feel that most of the characters on that show are fleshed out well. I just watched a few episodes recently and it's a great show. I love that almost every episode was actually about something important and emphasized a moral at the end. Kids cartoons today are nonsensical and confusing by comparison. Thundercats is not as strong as the other two, but the character designs and the premise are colorful and entertaining.
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First of all, thanks for trying. Your explanation at least sheds a bit of light on the story.
It's not that they're less than organic that's my problem, it's the way the story seems to have been handled. You can't compare the live-action movie to FINDING NEMO or THE IRON GIANT; both are cartoons, giving them a bit more creative license (ie they're not firmly planted in the real world). In fact I reject the idea of the TRANSFORMERS cartoon far less. You might consider that a minor quibble but to me it's pretty palpable. To me, if there's a reason fish talk or Giants form bonds with little kids - and if you give me a good point of reference for that reason - you can sell me on just about anything (I will never accept the idea of a musical. Never.).
SPIDER-MAN works because the story has a functional, plausible (even if not probable) and well-articulated origin. Peter Parker gets chomped by a radioactive spider and gets powers; done and done. Sure, it's fantastical, but in the realm of all things possible it COULD happen.
And that's what I'm getting at here - I don't think I'll find a way to accept spacey robots if I can't accept the positions behind their creations. If the filmmakers have attempted some kind of origin story to fit in with the film then I'll give it a shot. Otherwise, if it's a one-off explanation (they either just show up or the entire explanation is "They're made by aliens!")...I think that sucks.
However, on one point I'm with you - I love stories about mechanical entities developing biological traits, especially consciousness. I'm a big fan of AI and I, ROBOT (the story) and LOVED the story for THE BICENTENNIAL MAN. So it's not that I'm ruling out the concept - in this case, as I understand it, I'm just ruling out the way the concept is presented. Again, I'd be far more interested in the story of the robots going out of control on their alien creators than them coming to Earth with no explanation. -
to project the human condition onto, like a myth. It's about human nature - war and freedom vs. tyranny. The archtypes are interesting, people are obviously very attached to Prime's fatherly John Wayne Sheriff type. The different characters reflect the different ways people respond to the nature of power (there are no pacifists on the Decepticon side). The hook with the robots and transforming is to sell toys and to get kids to buy into it. But the reason it's so successful is that they are just like us, only tranforming robots. It's an authentic depiction of human nature in a fanastic setting. It's the same reason comic book characters are so appealing.
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OK - what you just said makes an incredible amount of sense, and I suppose if I looked back I could even subscribe to that mode of thinking. So please, when I say what I have to say next, don't think that I'm discounting what you brought up:
It doesn't explain why robots are coming from outer space.
I don't think I'm being unreasonable here - isn't it asking merely the bare minimum to have a quality origin in this story? If there was a quality origin present in the initial animated offering, wouldn't most people remember more about it than the toys? I remember the inception stories of all the cartoons I watched when I was little - HE-MAN, SILVERHAWKS, THUNDERCATS, etc. - and therefore I remember the stories, but not this one.
Hey, maybe there's a really great origin explanation in the film, and if there is I'll stand corrected. But I'm not willing to suspend my disbelief unless there is, even if other components of manage to relate well. -
All that I ask is that when you're watching the Transformers movie during your extravaganza, please view it as an honest and objective reviewer who has a responsibility to the people who visit this site and to the movie going public at large. All that I ask is that you apply reasonable critical analysis and hold it to a real standard. Do NOT sell out and make excuses for it and give a completely useless and debasing studio blurb about it like Harry did for Spiderman 3 (and then put it in the center column so that it disappears quickly instead of on the left hand side where almost everything else Harry posts goes). You are better than that and you have more integrity than that, unlike your fat friend and employer who is dead to me.
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of fantasy. I mean, did you need the whole DAMN Vulcan backstory the first time one showed up on Star Trek? Hahahah. I find that hard to believe. Did you need the warp drive manual before you would accept one existed? Anyway, while I understand where you are coming from, I would find this desire more understandable if the Transformers were drastically contrasting human nature. I mean, they basically are organic robots - they are sentient. They are ensouled in the cartoon, they are constructed and then given life and have distinct personalities. They are alternately explained as being evolved from a Quintesson project and being created by some god or a godforce. That's no different than arguements we have today. Human bodies are a machine, just an organic one.
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I agree that the live action movie might totally gloss this over, and that would kinda suck. Personally, for simplicity's sake, I'd probably go with the "Primus" explanation in the film--That is, the autobots believe in a Creator for their race named Primus, who disappeared long ago. I think it'd be cool to see the robots with religion. Oh, and the reason they're on earth, at least form the cartoon again, is because the 4-million-year war on their home planet has consumed almost all their resources, and Earth is still energy rich enough to be useful. So they came here millions of years ago, but both sides were trying to get here first, battled in the sky, and crash-landed, essentially dying until volcanic activity reactivated the Decepticon ship millions of years later. Now that I think about it, Transformers could really be a parable for just about anything. Religious strife, waning energy resources, whatever. Funny, that.
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Taking your altruistic reasoning at face value I'll say this. You claim that you used to have the toys, watch the shows etc. but they were just plotless toy commercials that nobody could possibly remember because of they were only written for 8 year-olds to understand. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of what I read into your comments. Now I have not read the script for the new movie and I'm trying to keep myself spoiler free. But I think the mythology created from the original series/comics is in many ways archetypal and in someways more relevant today than they were in the 80's. Apparently a certain filmmaker Steven Speilberg feels the same way otherwise he wouldn't have had his name attached to this. Aliens coming to this planet and concealing their identity is nothing new. Why would they? So they aren't immediately identified and purged from our world. Not rocket surgery. Take the struggle of an Autobot faction that wants move about peacefully, in harmony and adapting themselves with this new world. Then you have the Deceptions who wish to drain earth's resources to prop themselves up and compensate for having already drained drained their own world of its resources. Socialism vs. Fascism maybe? A metaphor for America's immigration problems possibly? The mythology also turns the old concept organic life being the only type of sustainable life in the universe. What about the idea that technology has come into our world to help make life easier, but as it infests itself it has grown past the point where we can control it and now we create technology to fight the technology that is trying to conquer us. The original animated film did not attempt to answer these questions, but I'd argue that most of the time Weird Al wasn't heard in the background the movie never attempted to talk down to its audience. The story had numerous ties to mythologies throughout the ages. That's what separated the Transformers for me from your ThunderCats and your Voltrons of the world. So I ask you, do you dismiss all things Transformers simply because you wave the "They were just toy commercials" banner? Well, fine. You'll find lots of love for that opinion on these boards. But don't dismiss my joy of playing out my own stories with my plastic toys as a child and still finding joy and relevance in my current creative field of employment today. I don't immediately put that qualifier on anything I enjoy. Now as for those goofy t-shirts? I will most likely stay away for fear I will never get laid again.
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man, I hate long talkback posts. I shall group in proper paragrah form next time.
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When are we going to get that retrospective review of Star Trek:II The Wrath of Kahn???
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to something topical. But noooo, Michael Bay wanted it to be about a kid getting laid in his first car.
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was never Cybertron anyway. Things get boring whenever they get back there and they have really bad architecture, it's like visiting Southern California. The point of Cybertron is to show how badly they blew it the first time around. The real hook is when they crash land on Earth: will they make all the same mistakes again? The Decepticon response is obviously, "Yes and you are going about it too slowly." The Autobots on the other hand attempt to preserve life on this planet at the expense of their cause and possibly their very existence, which is obviously the much harder path to walk and it is because they are not willing to become what they hate in order to win.
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Well the concept is so kick ass. especially as a movie. Everyone who watched transformers groing up as a kid knows the potential of this concept to make an amazing 'blow your ass out of the water' movie/franchise. Not just because of Giant Robots kicking ass but becuase of the characters and storyline. And by characters I mean the robots not Shia Lebouf. Unofrtunately Mori for you to really get a feel for it you need sit down and watch a G1 series of cartoons as the Movie is really a departure from the main G1 story line (i.e. Autobots vs decepticons). you may not appreciate the cartoons themselves but you should appreciate the potential it has as a live screen adaption, and then the frustration as fan boys witness its mis conception first by Bay and then the gen public. I think this will be a hit at the box office and the gen public will love it, but fans know it could/should have been a lot more.
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when Optimus appears, a wise ass will shout "WHERE ARE THE FLAMES?" and everyone will laugh until they remember that it's what's coming this summer. And they will be silent in the drive home
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The greatest return in cartoon history, plus delegates the second rate Transformers back in their place. All in all it was a bold move by Hasbro but as I've said in other TF talkbacks: DON'T FUCK WITH THE FANS!!! We put you on the map, we can take you off it. Want proof? Spiderman 3, or the biggest superhero disappointment this side of Batman & Robin.
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bent, I think you missed my initial and overall point. I'm not trying to deny you anything, and I'm not claiming that they were simply toy commercials. However, I owned toys from all over the cartoon universe as a kid. I remember the stories from almost all of them...with Transformers being a glaring omission.
And therein lies an important dichotomy, I think, and it's one that many share with me: why wasn't the story better? Why didn't it snare us? Why did we need the toys to keep watching? For a long time I wasn't allowed to have the GI JOE toys, but I'd still sneak over to my friends' houses to watch the show every day...which means I didn't need the toys to keep into the show. Can't say that with TRANSFORMERS.
If you like it that's great, and don't pretend I'm trying to shit on you just because I don't understand what people love about it. I don't, but I don't dismiss it. And in fact some of the story principles - Primus, Cybertron, what have you - sound interesting. Fuck, I'm willing to give the thing a shot just on the outside chance that Steve and Mike can make me care about soulless robots.
All that said, if they just drop the robots out of the sky and have them star brawling with minimal explanation as to what they are, where they came from and why...that's a failure in my book.
Superninja asked if I needed a Vulcan background check or a warp drive manual to believe they existed. I think that's a crappy example to put out there. I never really cared for STAR TREK, but I know it was encapsulated by a futuristic setting...on that alone I can buy a small detail like a warp drive. That's a far cry from asking for a palatable origin about intelligent machinery that, allegedly, comes into MY airspace at the present time in MY hypothetical world, and until I get one that I'm satisfied with I'll continue to be suspect of the value of this story. -
http://tinyurl.com/n2974 Is this what you were talking about, Doc_Strange?"The best you can do is bring me back to life to fix your problems. That's probably the best move as leader you've ever made."CLASSIC.
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Orgasmic Television.
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First off, I may have lumped you in with some others and attributed comments to you that were not even yours. I do appreciate that you are honestly just trying to have a rational discussion. It drives me nuts that some people think THEIR geek properties are somehow more relevant because the things they geek out for are somehow classier in the distinguished world of internet talkbacks.
Secondly, I think both you and Moriarty are both opening yourselves to the idea that many Tfans do come off as articulate and that there might be something that we have to say that can actually resonate past a select cult of robo-geeks.
Frankly, I don’t know why the hows and whys of it all aren’t that important now that I’m in my 30’s, they just don’t. Maybe it is just a child-like sense of awe and wonder. I sold all my Transformers at a garage sale when I was 14, but I had to hold on to Bumblebee (my first) and Optimus Prime. There always seemed to be a really big story in there somewhere and these characters to me were bigger than just the toy. Like a story that can still be told. But it was always based on a solid foundation of interesting characters. I would say if the mythos was so shallow then GoBots would still be relevant after 20 years. But now they are a punchline. The sense of what is out there, beyond out narrow human constructs is what fascinates be about the Transformers. Now I may be giving WAAAY too much credit to the keepers of the mythology, but I don’t think it’s far out to think that sentient metal beings are simply the reality of existence in the vastness of space and the infinite concept of origin.
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First off, I may have lumped you in with some others and attributed comments to you that were not even yours. I do appreciate that you are honestly just trying to have a rational discussion. It drives me nuts that some people think THEIR geek properties are somehow more relevant because the things they geek out for are somehow classier in the distinguished world of internet talkbacks.
Secondly, I think both you and Moriarty are both opening yourselves to the idea that many Tfans do come off as articulate and that there might be something that we have to say that can actually resonate past a select cult of robo-geeks.
Frankly, I don’t know why the hows and whys of it all aren’t that important now that I’m in my 30’s, they just don’t. Maybe it is just a child-like sense of awe and wonder. I sold all my Transformers at a garage sale when I was 14, but I had to hold on to Bumblebee (my first) and Optimus Prime. There always seemed to be a really big story in there somewhere and these characters to me were bigger than just the toy. Like a story that can still be told. But it was always based on a solid foundation of interesting characters. I would say if the mythos was so shallow then GoBots would still be relevant after 20 years. But now they are a punchline. The sense of what is out there, beyond out narrow human constructs is what fascinates be about the Transformers. Now I may be giving WAAAY too much credit to the keepers of the mythology, but I don’t think it’s far out to think that sentient metal beings are simply the reality of existence in the vastness of space and the infinite concept of origin.
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To see so many people really GET what transformers was about is really great if only The senior staff of this Supposed movie did Oh well we'll always have AICN talkbacks.
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This quarter in school I had to create a character animation so I decided to tackle Optimus Prime, the real Optimus Prime, not that hillbilly jackhole from the movie. The model is a mix between the cartoon, the Masterpiece, and some stuff I did just to make it easier on me. I only cheat in the Transformation in a couple of areas,and I doubt they'll be all that noticeable.
Hopefully when this thing is done we can finally put to rest the bullshit notion that the boxy designs wouldn't work for the movie. Just the little bit of animation I already have done PROVES that the original designs work fine, better than fine. -
Is basically that something, (probably Primus) created the transformers many millions of years ago. The Transformers themselves don't exactly understand it. but, sort of like an alien "ark of the covenant," their creator left behind a thing called the All Spark, which can imbue a machine with life, and make it into a transformer. Long ago, during their war, the All spark was lost to the depths of space, and ended up on earth. Megatron, Leader of the Decepticons, (bad guy transformers) discovered the all spark, but in trying to descend into earth's atmosphere, he was caught in a blizzard and crashed, deactivated. A hundered years later, a decepticon scouts found evidence of Megatron somewhere in earth's solar system, and along with that evidence that he may have found the fabled All Spark. This draws scouts from both the Decepticons and the Autobots, (Bumblebee being the first from the Autos) to search earth.
Now, you may be asking yourself, "Apart from being a religous artifact, what is their interest in the all spark?" well, this ties to the age old theme of the transformers. Because of their vehicular alternative modes, (basically their non-humanoid modes,) The transformers don't usually have separate tools or vehicles. they ARE their own tools and vehicles. This is where things get creepy, because they make new transformers to gain a tactical edge. Essentially, for Transformers at war, the act of reproduction is the same as an arms race. This is a case where the troops literally cannot be seen in a separate light from their weapons. It's an interesting theme, one that certainly even casts a suspicious light on autobots motivations as well. -
Cause they deleted the LOST TB because of assholes like you. Keep it up.
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They come from another planet. Vulcans come from another planet in the Star Trek universe which is why I used a similar example. Star Trek was futuristic for its time, but I didn't grow up as part of the original audience - it does not seem futuristic by our standards but it is still believable. Anyway, Optimus Prime explains their origin to the human characters in the cartoon. They come from a planet called Cybertron and are millions of years old. He doesn't really get into their religious worldviews. It's not even necessary because like I said the Transformers allow you for the most part to accept them as humanistic characters.
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aspect of the Transformers that was never really explored enough. Clearly they built more Transformers for the very reasons you suggest. However, I don't think this makes them suspect as that's what human beings also do when they reproduce and have throughout history (in some cases, that being considered a cultural obligation).
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final battle with Megatron and the attack on Autobot City. The rest of the film has a few cool moments but I don't think it's a great movie, it's great because I love TF.
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Prime authorized Ratchit to build the Dinobots so that they would be a powerful new force against the Decepticons. And the Decepticons eventually countered by building the constructicons, with that powerful combined-form Devastator. That dynamic, making new people as part of an arms race, always interested me.
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that first season than the movie and the subsequent series combined. The ideas are there to make something extremely topical.
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Didn't Flint Dillie's grandfather have something to do with Buck Rogers becoming a comic strip?
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Bastard!
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Yeah, it takes awhile before you realize what's going on. But after the first "F-bomb", it's comedy gold. Glad you liked it!
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He's gone.
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I never understood why in the transformers cartoon the robots needed to transform into vehicles on an alien planet. They didnt need to hide from anything, everyone knew who they were anyway, kind of a big plot hole isnt it? I think the michael bay movie, from what ive read, will make more sense in that respect and the transformers will have more purpose. Either way, the G1 storyline still kicked ass. The Quintessons was my favorite part in the series, itd be cool if they were in the live action movie.
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Read the original Marvel comics. The backstory is delved into more, and their alt-forms are an accident. When the volcano erupts, the Ark's computer scans what it percieves to be the dominant lifeforms of the planet (cars, comms devices etc), ignoring organic life because it had no concept of such. They are very much more 'alien' in the early comics, especially. Get the Beginnings/New Order graphic novels for the first year of Marvel TF. Then get Target: 2006 through to Time Wars for the Marvel UK Galvatron saga for how to portray a time travel storyline with some very, very dire consequences.
The cartoon is great, the animated movie enjoyable enough (though not the defining moment of G1 Transformers by any stretch of the imagination), but the comics is where it's at.
Oh, and first post here, BTW. :)
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and I want to do one of these things. but transformers the movie hold about as much interest for me as mopping a dirty floor.I'll be at the next one, Mori, keep us posted!
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Please people, I now nostalgia is some pretty powerful stuff, but the original series of cartoons was pretty mediocre stuff if you go back now and watch it. The animation was real chunky, the stories were hokie and the whole thing seems rather silly. I tried to watch some episodes a few years back with some friends and we were amazed at how poorly they hold up.
These were toys that Hasbro took to Marvel comics, then Jim Shooter and Denny O'Neil wrote the background story and gave them names. Then the series and comics were launched in America based on their concept for the toys.
They were a product first and then the comics and cartoons were launched to sell the product. That's all it is going to be this time around again, because THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS IN A CAPITALIST SYSTEM. People aren't making movies like this just to entertain. They are trying to make a buck selling little metal a plastic robots and a zillion other things with pictures of said robots.
Come on people...grow up and figure these things out for yourself. Mori is absolutely right about this so I don't see why people get their panties in a wad over it. -
Yeah, 'cause every other movie is made just to entertain, not to make money, right? Tell me, why does being based around a toyline make it bad? Pirates was based around a fucking theme park ride.
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Well, there goes any respect for comic book movies (after all, spiderman existed solely for the sale of comic books), sequels (they only exist to capitalize on originals), and nearly every other film property or franchise in history. ........................In other words, you elistist snobs, relax and enjoy the good aspects, not just the bad ones you to which you cling, and all in the name of "NOT BEING TARGETED."
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...that so many of you are out here defending something you love. Really. And to everyone who tried to explain the story to me - bent, brox, etc. - your efforts are appreciated. Really.
And not to leave those points for naught, but again I think there's an important point to be made here: the opinion of the cartoon series, by and large, appears to be that it really wasn't THAT good. If there's a solid TRANSFORMERS story that exists - be it in the cartoon movie (which I'd wager most who watched the TV series as a kid didn't see) or the comic book (ditto, I didn't even know one existed) - there are a ton of people who weren't exposed to it.
That being the case...I'm willing to accept that there's more to the story if you're willing to see how someone like me (or Mori or anyone else who's posted on this thread) has a problem with the idea of the movie because it does, on a lot of levels, look like a shameless attempt to revamp and promote a brand rather than produce a great movie. Hopefully you can understand why I just never got the "robots from space" angle. For your part, though, I've been convinced to see the movie now. I'll keep an open mind and not expect much - for Christ's sake, this is, you know, the guy who made PEARL HARBOR ;) -
Pirates of the caribbean was an amusement park ride. True, at the time that POTC came out, we were all skeptical. After the film turned out to be great, however, we left the skepticism aside, naturally. The point? You'd think we'd all learn to be a little open minded since then. As ZB has expertly pointed out, there's a sizable bit of hypcrisy occurring when someone snidely condemns TF for being commercial and then says that they cannot wait for the SECOND sequel to POTC.
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Yes, Transformers does seem like an obvious attempt at strengthening an established brand. What's the terminology for such a film, I wonder? Oh yes--its called a tent pole film, or even a franchise film. But hey, those are established properties in which YOU are the target demographic, right? Everything else is just hard to understand, crass, and shameless. Now bring on the eleventh Star Trek sequel, second sequel to an amusement park ride, umpteenth comic book adaptation, and Die Hard 4 (rated Pg-13, so bring the kiddies).
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Yes, Transformers does seem like an obvious attempt at strengthening an established brand. What's the terminology for such a film, I wonder? Oh yes--its called a tent pole film, or even a franchise film. But hey, those are established properties in which YOU are the target demographic, right? Everything else is just hard to understand, crass, and shameless. Now bring on the eleventh Star Trek sequel, second sequel to an amusement park ride, umpteenth comic book adaptation, and Die Hard 4 (rated Pg-13, so bring the kiddies).
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I was 11 when that movie came out and I tell you I cried like a little bitch when Optimus and all the others died. Man I was a wreck after that movie. Still love it though, even if it's a toy commercial and all....Optimus/Megatron fight was da shit!
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Just read inbetweenthesarcasm
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advise you to see the Mockery Bay is shelling. you will probably recieve no actual insight on origins of the Transformers. With out reading all other post to simplify it as much as possible there where robots made for Manufacturing purposes and Robot built for war Purposes they both Had AI they revolted over there masters but could not decide on how to rule there planet. hence a million year civil war. plain and simple thats the origin in a nutshell. The reason they came here 1. by accident in a battle 2. to plunder our natural resources.
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Ive always felt that yes the transformers cartoon series was yet another shameless way to get kids' mommies to buy the toys- i was one who did so. But, What movie or cartoon series isnt made for money profiting?-none, theyre all made to rake it in anyway they can. I see nothing wrong with that, its a business so what? But even so, they managed to get an interesting concept in the story there, that i think was never well developed. The whole concept is pretty friggin original, the voice acting was great in the g1 series and brought alot of life in to the cartoon despite the shortcomings--and the voices are what most people remember. The only problem with the whole thing to me was bad execution in animation and some cheesy elements here and there in some episodes. I think the whole origin needed to be told in more detail, like they were starting to do in the G1 3rd season. The transformers is reminiscent of the mad max movies to me, where the whole drive is to find fuel...pretty cool, and if they could make transformers as violent and action filled as mad max even better.
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i agree with mr. spork. Cartoons have gone way down hill these days. The new tf series sucks, the batman superman sucks..Compare these to Transformers G1, thundercats, GI joe, He-man.
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I am certainly not here to defend the original animated TV show, not even the animated movie for that matter. Hell, the comics went through a rather lengthy dry spell. But ditto hugger on everything concerning concept and characterization. I don't know if the movie experience can be replicated for anyone who was not there at that time at that place.
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Kidding. BEAST WARS Ruled!
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this may not suck. Might be TINO, but it seems to be pretty freaking cool whatever it is. and is that the old transforming sound I heard
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Fuck you to anyone who says that new trailer looked like shit. You have to be a real moron to not have enjoyed that. Christ this movie looks like it will be the best action movie ever to hit the screen. I don't think I have been this stoked for a film since Star Wars Episode 1 came out, and yes I know I know.... it did not live up to the hype. But see with Transformers I am not looking for a deep plot, I am looking for ass kicking live action robots and that's exactly what it looks like Bay is going to deliver.
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Fuck you to anyone who says that new trailer looked like shit. You have to be a real moron to not have enjoyed that. Christ this movie looks like it will be the best action movie ever to hit the screen. I don't think I have been this stoked for a film since Star Wars Episode 1 came out, and yes I know I know.... it did not live up to the hype. But see with Transformers I am not looking for a deep plot, I am looking for ass kicking live action robots and that's exactly what it looks like Bay is going to deliver.
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Seriously most leaders on TV shows and movies nowadays are a-holes! Take Jack from LOST or Robin on the TEEN TITANS. Watching them you'd think you'd have to be a real prick to be a good leader. Optimus Prime showed you can be a warm, show compassion and to respect to your followers and still be a great commander.
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prefer the story outline from the cartoon more. I like the idea that they would deliberately disguise themselves as something harmless they could pass for not knowing the terrain and the capabilities of the native inhabitants. They are military first and foremost. From a strategic standpoint it makes more sense than to say the Ark identified cars as a life form - that is highly illogical, even for a comic book. What would make them pass as a life form by any standards?
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"identify with them". You know, instead of looking up to them?
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in front of TF or He-Man. Some of the cartoons today I wouldn't think of it. Bring back the heroes.
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No, there's nothing wrong with profit and, no, there's nothing wrong with franchising. Movies, first and foremost, are business propositions these days (at the very least at the studio level).
My point, however - which a few of you are too dense to register despite my continual direct address of it - is that the movie seems an excuse solely to promote brand and visceral effects over story. It's a problem I have with a lot of big summer blockbusters, and TRANSFORMERS looks like it won't be any different. You can have all your marketing and all your spin-offs and all your toys and all your Happy Meals, but if you're starting with weak story material (the original cartoon), refusing to build something inspiring upon it and just adding CGI in an attempt to plug the holes...that's sad.
That's what I fear they've done here. If that's the case, TRANSFORMERS will be just the latest in a long line of big-budget failures, but one that, unless they were going to make sure to do it right, the studio should have stayed away from in the first place. -
I don't think you're talking to anybody who doesn't expect this movie to suck. We all like the source material, but at least half the people here are unhappy with how it's being handled by Bay thus far.
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Well theres nothing more dense Mr. winston than judging a movie before youve seen it. And the source material in the transformers g1 your speaking of is different and being built upon from what ive read of the new movie. Heres to a good Tranformers movie, and down to all of the unwarranted bitching and moaning to the story and script you havent even seen.
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