Cool News
‘We Should Tell Her!!’ Herc's Seen Tonight's LOST!! SWEEPS DAY SEVEN!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
LOST 3.19 FAQ
What’s it called?
“The Brig.”
Who’s responsible?
Teleplay is credited to showrunners Damon Lindelof (“Left Behind”) & Carlton Cuse (“One Of Us”).
What does ABC say?
“A newly focused Locke breaks away from "The Others" in an attempt to persuade Sawyer to help rid them of a great nemesis that has caused nothing but pain in both of their lives. Meanwhile, a new island inhabitant discloses some shocking information about Oceanic Flight 815. Guest starring are M.C. Gainey as Mr. Friendly/Tom, Kevin Tighe as Anthony Cooper, Mira Furlan as Danielle Rousseau, Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Kimberly Joseph as Cindy and Marsha Thomason as Naomi.”
How did last week’s promo go?
ANNOUNCER: Next Wednesday.
DESMOND: We keep her safe, she’s our way off this island.
CHARLIE: We have to tell Jack.
DESMOND: Do you trust Jack? Or don’t you?
LOCKE: I snuck into Ben’s tent and kidnapped him. And I want you to kill him.
SAWYER: Tell me the truth! Why me??
LOCKE: Because I can’t!!
The big news?
Jack’s been keeping a secret from Kate.
What else is ABC not telling us?
We learn this week where The Others went.
Did they go to Li’l Dharma Island? The place with the bear cages and dolphin tanks?
They did not.
Why “The Brig”?
A good piece of the episode is set in a locale familiar to longtime fans.
Can Naomi’s “shocking information about Oceanic Flight 815” possibly be more shocking than what she revealed last week?
It could be, but it’s not.
Is Rousseau still stalking Ben’s daughter Alex?
One assumes. She turns up this week for a bit of foreshadowing.
What’s doing with Cindy the stewardess?
She’s excited to see Locke.
What’s the deal with Naomi’s multilingualism? She works for Penelope, yes?
Naomi says she’s working for Penelope, but has never actually met her.
Are Hurley, Jin, Des and Charlie reunited with the rest of the 815ers this week?
Yes. The first time we see them they are already back at camp.
How does everyone react to the news of Naomi?
Naomi’s is squirreled away in a tent. Her presence is not immediately revealed to everyone.
Does Kate learn this week that Sawyer’s hillbilly seed has doomed her?
No. (And she and Sawyer continue to be more than friends.)
Does Sun give Jin the bad news about her diagnosis?
One gathers she does not.
Is Juliet working to save Sun’s life with stone knives and bear skins?
Sun is wholly absent this week. And Juliet is seen devising no treatments this week.
What’s doing with Claire and Sayid?
Sayid works on Naomi’s radio-phone thingie, which the Iraqi appraises as quite advanced. Claire sits the episode out.
No sign of Mikhail?
None.
Does Charlie die this week?
No.
Does Desmond make another prediction?
No.
What was that batting order again?
3.19 John Locke
3.20 Benjamin Linus
3.21 Charlie Pace
3.22-23 Jack Shephard
What’s good?
The flashbacks, which are all island-bound, give us some interesting glimpses of what The Others have been up to since Locke’s last episode, “The Man From Tallahassee.” And the only scene this week with Jack and Juliet, which doesn’t arrive until the episode’s final minutes.
What’s not so great?
After last week’s installment, with its many bombshells, this week’s affair will strike many as fitfully intriguing but ultimately superfluous and disposable, another attempt to tread water. The character we really want to be following is Ben, and his is the story coming next week.
How does it end, spoiler-boy?
“Not anymore,” Locke tells Sawyer, then marches into the woods.
Herc’s rating for “Lost” 3.19?
***.
10 p.m. Wednesday. ABC.
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And don't think I'll shut up about it until it appears!
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Ruined!!
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...and if you don't think that's another call for a Tom Poston talkback, then you haven't been paying attention.
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Guess not since they blew up the hatch.
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I bet she's a plant though. Jack is conning Ben via Juliet, but surely Ben has to be expecting a double-double cross.
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They're telegraphing way too much information. "A great nemesis that has caused nothing but pain in both of their lives" clearly indicates that Locke's dad is also the real Sawyer (not that I'm surprised, but still, a little discretion ABC). And by naming the season finale "The Man Behind the Curtain" while also revealing it's a Jack flashback hints pretty darn strongly that Jack's dad is Jacob.
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Anyone hear last week's lost podcast? Turned out Patchy is alive because the sonic fence was at a low setting. Wow! A multi adjustable sonic fence I want one!
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Can't wait to see the promised bust up between Jack and Locke at the end of this season. Do you think Sawyer will take ring side bets of castaways belongings and stuff while Charlie sell's flat Dharma beer on the sidelines and Claire holds up the Round Numbers. Looking Foward to it.
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Normally the setting is 'nagging wife' (fatal), but they had it turned down to 'blogger' (annoying, but induce some nausea, but rarely fatal)
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And if she does it in a bikini, even better!
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Scored Suzanne Pleshette. Nice. That guy was the definition of understated, dry, comic timing.
That's all I've chrth. Wait - I also feel he was terribly underused for voice work. While not having perhaps Hank Azaria's varieties of voice, he was instantly recognizable.
That's really all I've got.
Waiting for Cap'n Jack now. Saved me 58 minutes of my life last week - well, this week actually, since I was travelling and wouldn't have had time to watch the DVR til this week, but didn't have to since I read the recap last week. See how my life has worked out nicely? Couldn't care less? Me either, truthfully. -
On one hand, I really enjoy the insight that we get from the writers that was not apparent from the episode; on the other hand, it's only a minority of fans that listen to the podcast, and the majority of viewers that DON'T do the pod thing are seeing constant gaps in logic - like with the sonic fence. If you hadn't heard the writer's explanation, you'd be thinking "How is he still alive? It makes no sense." The series should ultimately be resolved by watching the only the episodes, and not by the extraneous (although interesting) information provided outside the tv format.
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Why I disagree with Herc's assessment's most of the time. He loves Juliet and Ben. I couldn't be less interested in any two characters. It's a Locke episode. That's exciting.
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IMHO, Juliet was LYING about Suns date of conception. She's totally planning on scamming Ben. BTW I didn't know Tom Poston was still alive so's I'm not gonna bust yer ballz for not having a thread up. We'll see ya after you sit for chiva, chrth.
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The finale is not named "The Man Behind the Curtain." It's named "Through the Looking Glass." MBtC is Ben's flashback next week. Jacob is not Jack's dad, because Jacob is alive and Christian has been yet again confirmed as dead by the producers.
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You were appreciated, sir.
And btw, Suzanne Pleshette?! Posthumous high-five! -
I still don't get what was so shocking about Niomi's reveal last week. It was fairly lackluster.
Went to a panel of Lost recently. The Exec. Prods. said they wanted the show to last five seasons, but ABC wanted seven, so they are struggling. Obviously.
It's the biggest issue with shows. They make money, so they have to keep them on until they have bled them dry. Look at the Sopranos. That could have been an amazing show, top to bottom, but instead we get a weaker show that has a burst of greatness every four episodes or so. And sure, thats better than most, but still.
I liken it to a great soup one has made. Everyone tastes the soup and it is amazing and complex and tasty. And so everyone wants more soup. So what do they do? They add water. It's watered down, but at least you got more soup. And now when you taste the soup, every so often you might taste a great sip, but mostly it is just watered down soup.
That is what happens with just about every great show on TV that has some sort of endgame. BSG, Sopranos, Lost, etc. The networks wanted more money, and so more wate was added. Christ, BSG was mostly just filler this season. It makes me sad, but I guess it is the nature of TV. Oh, the only exception so far is The Wire. And the only reason it can do it is because it is not that sucessful.
So to conclude this long ass post, Lost will have good episodes now and then. But in between those we will have to deal with crappy soup.
Sorry for the rant. -
Jacob is Jack from the future. Now my head hurts.
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Take 'em with a grain of salt. He gave D.O.C., a middling episode and "attempt to tread water" if I've ever seen one, five stars. The ratings aren't necessarily based on the quality of the episode, but on some bizarro notion of whether the primary characters are the ones the episode should be about.
Frankly, I'll be surprised if the writing and acting in this week's episode aren't of a much higher quality than in last week's, but since this episode "should" be about Ben, it gets docked a couple stars. -
Although fuck knows how they are gonna keep people interested until January 2008!!
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You could be right there. The way I see it, one way to stop ABC adding water to it so to speak would be low ratings, but then we would have a problem. A good series will probably attract more attention leading to higher ratings and then ABC will demand more. Damned if you do, damned if you dont
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Are any of the characters going to tell Sawyer and Kate to stop boffing? Because a) we don't want Kate to end up pregnant and dead and b) the more they do, the less real my fantasy of taking the hobbit's wife's virginity seems.
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no way lilly is a virgin. my pants are getting tight. cutting off circulation...need scissors...
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for me to search for after ive seen the ep.
ive said before, i really hope jacks dad is nothing to do with jacob or the island. it just feels smallminded to me, and beside anything else the man is deeply flawed, so i hardly accept him as an all powerful shadow. i hope hes just dead. -
Did any of you guys see her the first time she was on Letterman, and he whipped out a copy of a commercial she did for a soft-core sex chat line? Funny stuff.
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although she might have been until fairly late, because i understand she was a, er, fan of religious values. another bit of trivia? she likes to smoke expensive cigars, and only stops while the series is shooting. maybe an oral thing going on?
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That the majority of the episode must be on the Black Rock - i.e., "The Brig" ???
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I listened to the podcast and to me they seemed to be JOKING about the fence setting explanation for Patchy's survival. They tease A LOT on those things. Even though they are fun to listen to I take it all with a grain of salt. I thin kthe real reson he survived is yet to be revealed.
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I was just going to post the same thing...
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I had assumed it was the "the real Sawyer" but after Herc's writeup it sounds like it's Ben and not Locke's Dad. That'd be a bit disappointing.
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of course, whats underneath the black. Hatch no. 4 perhaps? someone blows up the ship and underneath debris, they discover a very important clue inside the hatch....
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that in Star wars revenge of the Sith, Palpapatine was a great manipulator of people. He become so powerful, in his youth that he was able to kill his own jedi master. Point is Ben is great manipulator of people too and is able to use stories to control people. like alex for example, he was able to the destroy the relationship between Jack and Locke. by saying to locke Why do you always do what he tells you.
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lol just kidding
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He just says its Ben to lure Sawyer. He couldn't explain in simple terms how they got the real Sawyer there. I don't think they can explain it in simple terms, oh yeah here's one- bullshit.
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maybe u can help me out here, I seem to recall back to Juliet centric esp I think when she was with kate on the run from smokie, wasn't there like a dial on sonic post above the keypad where juliet tapped in the code to activate the fence. Maybe the dial is for level setting..if there is a dial, my memory is abit fuzzy. So y'know could be a element of truth in that podcast.
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Do we find out how that dirty bastard got on the island?!
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...the black horse. Or Smokey the monster. Whatever. The point is, last season it was a chore to watch Lost, while 24 was TV heroin. This season the roles have changed. The ironing is delicious.
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Generic, do you make a habit of eating laundry? Just messin' with ya, my friend.
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1.) Sawyer will start going by 'James' more and more after this episode (or maybe one more episode dealing with what happens tonight) until he's just James Ford to everyone.
2.) Jin is the father and Sun will be OK because the island likes her (or whatever controls the island and heals and kills and stuff), which will just piss Ben off more. -
...Ricardo Montalban. Anyone know Mr. Roark's first name?
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So the as yet unseen major reveal is that when the plane was crashing and we saw Ben and the rest of the Others looking up, Tatoo was just off camera going "Hey Boss! Da Plane! Da Plane!"? :)
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Exactly! It will be in the forthcoming Ben-centric episode. We will also learn that Ben was a midg... er... little person.
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I went back and watched that scene online and the fence is off when they get there. Meaning it may never have been on in the first place and Patchy somehow faked his death, although you did here the fence make a noise when he stepped into it so I don't think so. This begs the question of who turned off the fence. My theory is that the Others did when they left for wherever. Hopefullt tonight's others flashback ties that up. Anyway Juliet types the code on the keypad and lifts up the panle with the keypad to reveal a "dial switch" I would call it. It looks like an oven burner knob. There's a red light indicating the fence is off and only when she turns the dial switch all the way to the right does the light turn green and acivate the fence and deflect smokie. So in my mind the fence low setting theory proposed by Lindelcuse is a bit weak. That's why I thin kthey were just messing with us.
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Thanks man, good of you to check it out. I hope we do find out more abt patchy before the season out.
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This raises the question, I suppose, is whether or not the fence is 100% lethal when on, or just really, really nasty and harmful with a very real chance of death. Perhaps it keeps Smokey out and renders people easily collectable for the Others.
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05/02 - Jack is not dying. And remember, I said there will be at least five deaths this month — four after ["The Brig"]. Source: Ask Ausiello @ TV Guide
05/02 - Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse were on the Preston & Steve Morning Show in Philadelphia. During the show they revealed that the four toed statue is very important but won't be addressed until season 4, Walt or Michael will make an appearance by the end of this season, one two or three people may die. Source: The Tail Section -
Looks like there is the beginnings of a schism. http://tinyurl.com/ywpl49
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it turned out to be Ricardo Montalban. That would rock.
Well, I've just heard that they have a way of tying everything up and answering it all next season, but apparently they want ABC to PROMISE next season is the LAST season.
I've never heard of that before, but maybe it's a way for them to save face before ABC axes the show.
I'm curious to see what a Bencentric episode is like. But at this point I could give a fuck about all the preggers women dying. -
you got a link on that?
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Many folks seem to be disappointed about the infertility reveal, as if it were THE big mystery or something. I strongly suspect that the infertility is a major symptom of what is going on/going wrong with the island. If I am right, the details of the infertility problem will be laden with clues and foreshadowing.
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with an iron before? They ARE delicious!
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wont you get cheese on the Iron.
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open-faced grilled cheeses fare poorly on the ol' ironing board
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And although I'd LOVE to watch this show for 7 years and not 5, they'll have to develop it further rather than just tread water. The main problem with the X-Files, for example, was that it was the same old shit week in, week out, for 9 years(!) despite all the semi-revelations. When the show ENDED with them going on the run I thought "well why didn't you do this for a whole fkn season or so to liven things up??" - Mulder and Scully (or whoever) could easily have encountered weirdness while doing a Prison Break S2, playing with the format of the show slightly to keep things fresh. BSG has the same problem. All those filler episodes at the end of S3 could EASILY have been adapted to take place on New Caprica towards the start of the season. Doing so may have made them a bit more interesting and actually show the crew make a home there rather than depend on the usual 12 months later bullshit. Sure, the show is called "BSG", but crew were still on board and i'm happy to cut between the two every now and again for half a season.Anyways, I digress - back to LOST - if they're going to pad it out I at least hope they play with the format a little rather than just tease us along for another 2 years. So far they've done ok (S1: beach, S2: hatch, S3: Others), I'm just hoping they don't run out of steam towards the end of year 7, by which time we'll no longer care what's going on because "the soup" has just become far too bland.
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I'm looking forward to this episode irrespective of what Herc says.
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I heard they have an agreement now... 5 seasons and they're shutting down.
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http://tinyurl.com/2ebs4y
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And another thing - what's with Claire's absence for almost the whole of this season? One centric story and a few cameos aside, we hardly see her nowadays. I, for one, miss her... and not just because she's hot.. she's actually the least explored main character on the Island. I fear a Shannon/Boone fate awaits her soon... :'(
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Times have changed, although I still boil all my water in the car radiator. Gives spaghetti noodles that sweet aftertaste you can only get from Prestone.
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Seriously, "we have to tell her?" Followed by ABC not telling us that Jack has a secret for Kate? Clearly, the "we have to tell her" is from the last little bit of the show between Jack and Juliet. That question is WHAT do they have to tell her. Does anyone think that maybe there is soemthing we don't know about Henry's breakfast with Kate that first day in the Other's camp?
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no alot of the ep does not take place on the rock just a small portion of it
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is someone he took from Ben's tent. Not Ben. I'd assume it's his "father". It's just the way it was worded in Herc's article that made it seem like it was Ben.
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I think its much more likely that the fence is controlled in sections - the section Locke shoved Patchy through was powered up, the section Kate and Juliette used was off. Just saying because I don't think the control box on the one pylon that Juliette used would be controlling the whole fence.
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them but locke cant kill his own dad and he knows that once he tells sawyer its the same guy who conned his parents (the real sawyer) he will flip out and choke him to death.
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Not really a theory or prediction or anything, just an idea...
Consider the whole good/bad thing. So Locke is given the chance to kill his father and declines as he has found inner peace (or whatever). BAM! He's seen as good and passes THE TEST. OK, so Locke is now in on... whatever... to some degree, so he is sent to test Sawyer. Does James Ford kill or has he changed? You see where I'm going with this...
This raises the (possibly minor) questions of how 'in on it' Locke's pop is? Totally in on it and in 'the lions den' as ben was as Henry? Is it even really him or a replica (why the hell not, right)? Is he just a crafty old con man who's luck has finallly run out? Is GOB Adama way, way off? Probably. -
when i saw it it ended with locke settin off for the others not with jack
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Eko saw his brother - he died
What the hell did Locke see and why was he smiling?
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That's a really good theory. I could buy that.
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what's the point of having some parts on and some off?
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Kate and Claire skinny-dipping off the beach - almost like seeing the face of God, wouldn't you say?
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publishes a detailed synopsis before the show airs anyway?
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I will be one happy fucking guy.
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This much is clear. And really, does anyone else deserve to die as much as he does? MAYBE Ben, but we don't know what he's up to yet. Anthony Cooper is just a fucker.
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far inland... it was moved to cover something else. Color me intruiged. Sorry for the multiple posts, I'm only now catching up on the TB.
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Harold Perrineau and producers could not come to an arrangement for an appearance in the season finale. In an interview, Perrineau said that he hopes that he can find time in his schedule to appear in season 4. I can't say for certain that this precludes a Walt appearance, but we probably wouldn't see one without the other. Bummer.
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Spoilerfix is saying we'll at least see one of them by the end of the season.
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HOW they would appear - now THAT is cause for some serious speculation.
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Word is we WILL see them. Could Harold's comments have been foilers?
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of a much older walt on the island? I'd be down with that, provided they have a good explanation for it for next season...
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Is it you, Rodrigo? Out for a little revenge? Good for you. BTW, LOVED you in 300!
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will come back Han Solo-style and save the day...they've been making references to Star Wars for far too long, eventually they'll have to lift another plot element
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Can we have one of them every week, so that we don't have to sit through 75% of shitty acting with long paused looks of bewilderment from these so called actors before the cliffhanger of an ending that has fuck all to do with the episode we just watched?
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What locke saw was very similar to what Juliet saw- flashes of light, probably flashes of his own life as the smoke scanned him. Lost time... The bright light you see when you see the monster is it scanning you... THAT'S what locke saw. Later the smoke may have taken the form of something else- when he became terrified of it and it tried to take him in the first season's finale, perhaps it looked like Boone for a moment...
I'm pretty sure, however, that the first time he saw it, it looked like it's smoke form- it was high above him looking down. The bright light Locke recollects was the scanning process. -
But my idea sounded SO much better. ;)
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Then I'm curious as to which show you think has GOOD acting.
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Even he couldn't handle seeing something as glorious as that.
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No, not this week.
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sayid should rip out your balls. enough with your above it all bullshit. is there any way possible you could hold off on your jerk off synopsis til the show has actually fucking aired? most of us dont come here to read learn what will happen tonight, we come to discuss what has happened in the past and how it ties into tonight. fuckin retard.
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He said Naomi's wasn't it and that we'd know when we saw it.
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BSG was forced off New Caprica due to budget. A ton of episodic TV decisions are made for budget reasons. Lost is routinely indoors (Hatch, etc) becuase it's too expensive to have 23 episodes shot outdoors with what is essentially a movie-shoot crew.
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If her short range chopper came from a ship, would that be the same ship that Ben called "Help" of which the heading he gave Michael leads to?
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My pubes surround the goods, but don't cover them...you Persians are an odd sort, you are.
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When you see a post that says tonight's synopsis, just skip over it.
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He does it every week... No point in getting mad about it. What really sucks are people who post spoilers in their subject lines.
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Wow... so after reading Cap'n Jack's shit... I guess naming the smoke monster cerberus was appropriate. I still don't think they're in hell though.
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I can't think of anything on TV at the moment that has good acting. The West Wing did but that's now gone away. It's not that all the actors are crap, there are some good ones. Desmond takes the acting chops here for me, he is now the star of the show for being a believable character. Others worthy of a mention are Sayid, Locke & Ben. The rest of the actors are not believable anymore. Those four I mention are acting them off screen at every given moment. Sawyer is doing a good job too but Kate, Hurley & Charlie are attrocious. You were probably expecting me to say Heroes has better acting but it doesn't.
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I'm out til tomorrow....see yaz laterz folks.
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Could someone break it down for me? I am new to the forums and the shows. I am slowly getting caught up, and watching the new episodes. So tend to get confused. PLEASE PLEASE SOMEONE break it all down.
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...You should tell her she's "in a family way" and that it could kill her. Screw Juliette (litterally and figurativly, it's fine with me). Hyppocratic (sp?) Oath, dude.
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So good on you that you didn't. I definitely disagree- the cast holds its own in lost... Even the ones who people like to pick on, like Kate, have had moments of solid acting in the show. Compared to alot of other genre shows, like Jericho, Lost is consistently good to great in the acting department (IMO)
And SHHH Mordiceous, no one else read it!! Though Ausiello did post that: SPOILER..Ok, it's not a full out spoiler but that tonight's episode would feature one of the most twisted lost deaths ever. -
What father thing... Locke's father?
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I don't disagree with you doing a synopsis in advance. Heck, I don't even watch the show. But I would say you'd be better off if you did the following:
1) Use paragraph code to break up the synopsis. That way it won't look like a block of text. The code is (remove spaces)
2) Don't just recite events like a 5th grade book report being done by Ben Stein (Bueller, Bueller, anyone? Bueller). Put a little spin on it, add some personality.
3) Don't cover everything. Herc's reviews (even the spoiler-ific ones) are usually incomplete of details. Two reasons one should do this: one, it prevents a 5th-grade book review; two, surrounding important details with mundane details diminishes importance. Removing the mundane details illuminate the important ones.
Just some friendly suggestions. -
;) I know this is usually reserved for wonka, but... I have no will power! I looked! Tonights episode is going to be so awesome! How can one NOT look?
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Oh I am SOOOO naughty for posting that!
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No not really. Anyone that doesn't know that is... well not posting on this website.
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My mind is melting right now, and I know I am way too obsessed with this show, but bear with me. I'll try to avoid any spoilers, but something mentioned in Cap'n Jack's (damn him) description of the show brought back a previous thought of mine.
A certain south pacific locale is apparently mentioned for an important reason by Naomi tonight. I looked on a map, saw the latitude and longitude, and took one more stab with the numbers in an order that would be close to that location - Lat 4 deg., 8 min., 15 sec./Long 108 deg,42 min., 23 sec. (I figure 15 and 16 are close enough that it might not matter). This brings you into the South China Sea, -
Either you are missing that I was joking or I am missing that you are...
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You're claiming authorship by not mentioning the real author when you post each week, so it's not like you don't want to mess up the source material or anything! :)
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Alot of handbags swinging here among Cap'n Jack and the others... (others, geddit?never mind) re posting tonights synopsis.
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Nobody that repost the synopsis on here each week cites sources, like this site, shite.
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any episode with john locke front and central is guaranteed a least 5 star. After the past ones has been bloody good!
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fake respect for the original author then? Anyway this is a stupid discussion- Can we get back to the matter at hand?
...Who's Kurt Russel? -
Damn you Charlie Sheen, stop sniffing coke over my laptop..
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In Ben's episode next week. You know the Purge we've been hearing so much about? We're going to see it.
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Like Novaman said it's not even his synopsis. He cut and pastes it here without citing the source so he can feel important and get his pathetic need for some attention. It's pitiful actually and it's completely unwarranted. Of course I don't read them but like someone also said peopel then cite it in future posts. Even the Canucks who see it an hour early have enough class and respect not to completely spoil it for everyone.
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Mittelos spoiler...your're right there, plus we'll see that DHARMA is the enemy not the others....Er,hope that wasnt too spoiler-ish.
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Go Novaman
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Actually I knew it was spoiler-ish, but what the hell...
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I want to know everything before it happens. I wish the remaining 3 episodes were posted here. I want to be annoyed weeks in advance.
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He is the hotty from Stargate, Tombstone, and Big Trouble in Little China. I can't think of anymore. GOB of course I knew you were joking. Mittelos That is the type of spoiler I like.
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Roger's back. How'd he die? We'll see.
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of the purge as we'd like, but I could be wrong. It's also been confirmed by the writers that there are TWO groups of "others". But as for Dharma being THE bad guys, I don't know.. This jacob guy seems fucking sinister, no? As far as we know, he's not Dharma, he's the "others"... We also don't know who initiated the purge, but it seems very much that Dharma was the victim there... They may have been invading the aboriginals' land, but does that warrant a massacre?
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He has family problems... Weird.
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Novaman, the way I hear it is that the Others got grumpy with Dharma, and Jacob led the rebellion against em. Apparently Dharma was engaged in activities Jacob didnt like. What they are I dont know, but I think this led to a split.
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idk my bff jill
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I didn't realize what I'd posted was already on Lostpedia's prespoilers page. And here I thought I was going to look so cool jumping in as a first-time poster with spoilarz.
I have more, but I'm going to check and see if they've been posted elsewhere. -
Herb Alpert and Richard Moss were the founders of A&M Records. So the show's run out of philosophers to name characters after so Luis's character is a Tijuana Brass homage? {I IMDb'd to confirm that reference. BatManuel was El Diabloe on JLU? I did not know that.)
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We got one "major" one at the end. That was it. The tough thing about giving an episode 5 stars, is everyone holds it as a standard, and I don't think last week's was indicative of the best that Lost was capable of. I'll be watching it at 8 tonight, am looking forward to it, and will be giving my non-spoiler impressions afterwards.
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Yeah, its easy just to not read them. I don't have any problem skipping past the post. However you could just post this link
http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/ considering this is probably where the synopsis comes from anyway. -
He actually gives an honest review here: "This week’s affair will strike many as fitfully intriguing but ultimately superfluous and disposable, another attempt to tread water."
Still note, Herc's star rating system makes considerably more sense if he's rating out of 7 stars and not 5. -
This is Locke's kidney stealing fake dad and Sawyers real conman dad that is kidnapped from Ben's tent... LOCKE: I snuck into Ben’s tent and kidnapped him. And I want you to kill him. CAN'T WAIT.
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luck of the irish to you and yours
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Enough already. Jesus Christ.
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sorry sawyer you're in hell
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(Started this earlier when my computer froze, and it looks like part of post went out)
Anyway - trying to avoid spoilers, but something mentioned by Cap'n Jack brought back a previous thought of mine.
A certain locale is apparently mentioned for an important reason by Naomi tonight. I looked on a map, saw the latitude and longitude, and took one more stab with the Numbers in an order that would be close to that location - Lat 4 deg., 8 min., 15 sec./Long 108 deg,42 min., 23 sec. (I figure 15 and 16 are close enough that it might not matter). This brings you into the South China Sea, between Singapore and Malaysia, not all that far from the location mentioned by Naomi. It gets better.
The exact location of the coordinates is in the water, with the nearest land mass being the island of Natuna Besar. I'd never heard of it before, but when I googled it, was stunned to find it linked to an ATLANTIS theory! (Go to http://tinyurl.com/37grta) Apparently the Sunda Shelf off modern Indonesia, Malaysia and Indo-China was at one time a gigantic plain, dubbed 'Sundaland'. Think the inhabitants might have had four toes?
I have more but will start a new post to conclude...
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Reveals Jacob, reason why island lost communication and intentions of the "monster"
http://tinyurl.com/3xrsb7 -
CONTINUED FROM ABOVE
Now I was taken even further back to a time when we first learned about the numbers and the "New Age" sensibilities of DHARMA (beginning of season 2, so not really all that long ago). Trying to find some significance that might be hidden in the numbers, I trolled some New Age sites and came across info on Earth energy Grids, etc. While I could never find any real use for the numbers in any of the grid systems, I did come across this tidbit on crystalinks.com (full article at http://tinyurl.com/2lc9qm):
"We see Dr. Lefors Clark's bow-shaped 'diamagnetic energy vortex' shaping the land in a smooth curve. We can also see the same curving formation created by the east coast of India and the west coast of the China / Korea / Vietnam area of Asia. This vortex is balanced between points 24 and 13. We remind ourselves that these smooth curves illustrate the spiraling nature of the superstrings that make up these geometric energy fields, here expressed as spiraling lines of magnetic force. According to Dr. Clark, the point at the center of the 'bowtie' becomes a magnetic null zone of zero gravity when appropriately triggered by the right geometric positions of the Sun, Moon and Planets to the Earth. In those moments of conjunction, there is a 'hyperdimensional bleed-through,' and we then get time dilations."
Guess what? That center of the bowtie is the same frakkin' location as the coordinates I used above! And doesn't it sound like our island - time dilation! hyper-dimensional bleed through! magnetic null zone! All sitting on top of a postulated Atlantis location!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm done now.
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Da da DA da da da...
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Interesting. Maybe it is hell...
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Take a Leak Guy
RIP TASG -
Nice preview clip
http://tinyurl.com/2k44th -
Obviously it's all the work of genies, duh...
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The Black Rock!
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Offically best line of this season.
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that Herc said last week's episode had tons of bombshells and that this week's had really nothing? Already we've seen more than last week's entire episode had in terms of answers.
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OH DEAR FUCKING GOD YES
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Friggin' awesome.
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WTF Herc? This is easily a 5. Did you watch the right episode?
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Herc, my friend, you've clearly missed the mark. This is 5 stars all the way for the Sawyer confrontation alone. And we still have the Jack/Juliet thing to look forward to...
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Why can't Sawyer strangle him instead?
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Yep.
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this episode was fucking awesome. way better than last week's.
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"ultimately superfluous and disposable" Really? If this wasn't a balls-to-the-wall, 5-star, money-shot episode of Lost, I don't know what would be. "character we really want to be following is Ben" I have to assume you were joking.
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Nearly 8pm here in Cali, and time can't seem to go any slower for me. I'm gonna try to kill some time watching Jericrap, and Criminal Minds. I hope this weeks episode is good, I was fairly disapointed with last weeks episode. Anyway, Cheers everybody :)
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7 days is TOO FUCKING LONG! GRR!
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Unfuckwitable, one of the best of the season. And next week looks amazing, what with the origins of things. God, I can't wait to see it all unfold.
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I love the show so I don't mind 5 stars for last weeks, but the Juliet episode was easily 5 too. SO HERC, YOU BASICALLY GAVE LAST WEEKS A 5 BECAUSE OF THAT BIG REVEAL. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS? IT'S GOTTA BE A BIG HUGE SHOCKER STATEMENT?
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Screw everyone who hates onthisshow...IT JUST GOT 100 X BETTER TONIGHT 3 stars for tonight, and 5 for last week...ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!! This was the episode Ive been waiting for all season....SCREW EVERY SHOW ON TV....LOST OWNS YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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from the smoke monster and he is going bye bye. My thinking is that the others wanted Locke to kill his dad so the smoke monster would kill Locke because Locke is indeed special. I think Locke holds the key to them getting off the island and he'll have to choose staying and thus everyone staying or everyone leaving but he goes back to being paralyzed. I think the Others are scared of Locke and need him to be eliminated by the smoke monster. The upcoming key is that the Others think that it was who Locke killed his dad. Them thinking he is doomed allows them to reveal secrets of the island, etc. My theory anyway.
Damn Locke was a bastard tonight but he's still my favorite character. -
So it was vocalized that the island is Hell so obviously it's not. Another example that everyone on the island are somehow related and that's pretty much it.
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How the hell do you rate last week over this week...take the panties off and find some boxers to put on next time you watch this show.........
BEST EPISODE EVER! -
Last week was peanuts compared to tonight! I really have no idea why this would rate only 3 stars. I know you're a fan of the show, so some sort of substance abuse is the only plausible explanation.
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I just watched most of season 1 and Sawyer burned that letter to "Sawyer" a long time ago
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Sawyer's not getting any visit from smokie. The producers were saying in the season finale we get a Locke vs Jack showdown and the castaways are split into two camps. One lead by Jack and one lead by Sawyer.
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This week >> Last week
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LMAO. :D
I have the dates when the networks will announce their fall '07-08 lineups:
NBC: May 14 (Monday)
ABC: May 15
CBS: May 16
Fox, The CW: May 17
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Ok hadn't seen that but you say Locke vs Jack showdown? The wouldn't it be Jack and Locke in opposing camps, not Jack and Sawyer? But that doesn't prevent Sawyer from getting killed still in the finale or later
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if he had given this the rating it deserved, 5 stars, we would have gone into it with higher expectations. He made it so much more enjoyable by lowering his rating.Holy shit! Sawyer was awesome and so was Locke! I told you so!! Yes! He hasn't turned on our people at all.
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Predictable... but who gives a fuck! That kicked ass!
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Locke's father mentions "paramedics" in his story about how he ended up on the island ("one of them smiled at me"). The actor, Kevin Tighe, used to be on the drama "Emergency" in the early/mid-70s, where he played a paramedic. Good ep btw - bet the Season Finale is gonna rock.
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I was thinking the same thing about smokie and Sawyer. God I hope not. I don't think that the Others want Locke out of the way. It is Ben that wants Locke out of the way. He was the star before Locke, and the island doesn't seem to like him anymore.Locke wasn't a bastard... he conned Sawyer/James into killing the man he had already killed. We and he know that he really didn't but at that moment he thought he was.
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Apparently the finale is fucking packed with action. We get mainly the following things:
-Big showdown between Others and Lostaways (which culminates with Locke vs Jack)
-Lostways have to pick between Sawyer and jack. (You could see the disension in the preview).
Locke vs Jack is the battle with the others. The split camps is the result of Jack being a fuckwit. -
an intact plane in a trench four miles under the ocean. Bodies were all neatly strapped in so we were able to get an exact body count. Happens all the time when a 747 falls from 30,000 feet in the air and plunges 21,000 feet into water where the pressure is over 600 atmospheres.
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I don't normally participate in this here talk back stuff, but seriously? Herc's 18 ounces of wrong in a 16 ounce thermos. 3 stars? c'mon, my ass is gonna be raw for days after being slapped around by that episode.
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By far the best character since the beginning, though Jack's character is strong, too. I love the conflict with Locke. So many struggles internally and externally. So much mystery. I thought that shot of the Others walking away, leaving Locke alone yet again, alone from the survivors and the Others, was brilliant. He is this show.
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Yeah, I agree it's Ben that wants Locke out of the way, not the other Others. When you say that Locke conned him into killing the man he already killed? I'm not following you there
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thanks for the summary. Yeah that finale is gonna rock. I can't wait to see what the cliffhanger is going to be. Damn this show rules
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Holy fuck, is all I can say. The writers have taken the brakes off this show, and now it's just out of control in a good way.
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It was an episode from season 1. The reason James was in Australia. the tip off from his "friend" that he had found the con man that pulled the job on his family. James killed that man thinking he was "Sawyer" after the man, who was not Sawyer, let him know he had been tricked into killing him. James even mentioned it, only calling him James because the real Sawyer was in this episode, when he was talking to Locke. Something about the man he killed in Australia being the wrong man.
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Is a prick thing to do. Do it somewhere else, I want to have fun speculating. If you're going to put a spoiler, at least disguise it. I.E.- "wouldn't it be cool if Sawyer choked sawyer?"
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well, at least on this one you were. Easily a 5 star effort. It was anything but "spinning the wheels". We got to see dissension among the others, learn about just what kind of effort Penelope is going through to find Desmond, connect the dots with Sawyer and Locker's past, learn that Locke is probably the most important character in the entire show .... and so much more. This episode was crack, and I don't know if I can wait for the Ben flashbacks next week. I've gone 180 on this show ... I was ready to write it off after three straight "Others Camp starring Jack" episodes ... but it has roared back in a huge way.
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dickless.
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Next thing you know you will be blowing men down by the pier. ;) Foxx, sorry if you can't follow my last post. Looking at it I can't even follow it, and I wrote it!
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May 02, 2007 10:31:51 PM CDT
Wake up people, Herc doesn't watch the episode early
by dapper swindler
He never posts information that couldn't be gleaned from tv guide and spoilerfix.com. His star ratings are totally random. 5 last week? Treading water this week? Sounds like those should be in reverse.
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That was the best episode this season by far. It's also one of the best ever. I mean it even had a jabba-style death. Could it have been more perfect? And who gives a crap about Ben? I'm so sick of looking at those beady eyes.
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ok got you. But I still think Locke was a bastard tonight because he wanted his dad dead as much as James would (as soon as he finds/found out it was the real Sawyer) but yeah, he conned James into doing it. And did you see Locke's smirk when James agreed to go with him at the beginning? Damn that was a priceless bastard smirk haha
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...does with her free time? Anyway, I kind of always figured Locke was the centerpiece of the show, ever since he explained to Walt the rules of Backgammon, where "one side is light and one side is dark". That was reinforced when one of the characters had a vision where Locke had one dark eye and one white eye. I think everyone else thinks they understand the island, (the others), or doesn't understand it at all (Castaways). Locke will be the one to find the ultimate reasoning for the island, something that probably goes beyond four-toed statues, shipwrecks, smoke monsters, and hatches.
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I completely agree. If you know what is going to happen, would you rather be the guy that makes perfect predictions or the guy that just posts a summary that half the people hate?
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does this look familiar cap'n?
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actually writing what he thought, as in, a review that actually did not conclude with his standard "this is the greatest series and/or episode ever" shtick.
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I don't post much in the LOST TBs anymore. But I have to say that was one of the best episodes in a LONG time. The show has been wildly inconsistent and dangerously close to heading into current-season-of-24-territory. However, when you put Locke front-and-center and you actually reveal a major plot point for a change, the show swings right back into place. (This is despite the fact that nearly everyone already figured out the whole Locke's Dad/Sawyer connection ages ago.)Of course the question is: is Ben still playing Locke with the agent who gave him Sawyer's file? And didn't the tape recorder seem abundantly obvious? Has Ben anticipated Locke's actions and vice versa? The chessgame between these two may be the best thing going right now.As for the guy who thought BSG was forced off of New Caprica due to budget...ummm...no.
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Someone has to tame that crazy French chick. Seriously, she didn't take one or two sticks of dynamite she took an entire crate of it! I smell sweet revenge. You may be able to walk again Ben, but something tells me you are going to be a stain on Hurley's shirt just like Arnst.
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So that whole Sawyer scene where he forgets to where shoes is just to convenient for me. Can anyone get a great screencap of his feet? Maybe he has 4 toes! I can't see well on my DVR...but it just seems so forced that they showed his feet. Either they are showing it as a special easter egg to show that the 4 toed statue is a big part of the show or that everyone is paying attention to the toes too much if indeed he has 5.
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I didn't read Herc's summary, but I watched the episode live and it was definitely a 10/10 episode. Brilliant acting, writing, and a major payoff to anyone who has been watching this from the beginning. There's no stopping this show.
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I can't understand how Herc could give this episode only a 3 star rating, it was loaded with bombshells. We learn that Jack and Juliet have a secret plan against the Others, learn just how Anthony Cooper came to the Island, more info on what the Others are planning to do, and we saw two characters (Sawyer, Locke) going through major life-altering experiences, this is not a "disposable" or "superflous" episode.
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....you can't friggin' wait for each commercial break to be over, damn it!!!!!! And this was the case tonight. HOORAY!!!
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...both found a conclusion to the thing that dominated their lives prior to the crash on the island. There's a certain freedom attached to that, I would think, like the ability to be the man you were always supposed to be, rather than what circumstances made you.
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Somebody had to say it. Great episode! My only complaint is that it should have been Sawyer centric. This was the complete resolution of his entire story arc and we don't even get flashbacks of Locke's dad screwing over his mom (although another con story would have been redundant). I'm really afraid the poster above is right about Smokie killing Sawyer, and by the end of this season. What can they do with his flashbacks next season if it's not related to his manhunt?
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BRILLIANT! Seriously. That made me spew my cabernet sauvignon. The EMERGENCY! referece was a treat as well. Awesome show.
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nicely stated there. I agree. And as much as I wish it to not be the case I think that it might be that as James' life mission (to be able to find the real sawyer) is now complete, it will tie in well to a visit from mr smokie. I hope I'm wrong tho.
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You guys have short attention spans. M from Tall. was balls to the walls for entire hour and at the end we find out why he's in the chair, etc.
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Disposable? Huh?? This was an episode that resolved two major storylines for two characters that have been going on since the 1st season. Definitely an extremely poor choice of words on his part.
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Roaring back is an appropos description. As far as the "best" characters, I'd put Locke 1, Sawyer 2, and Jack somewhere behind that. I think you could make a decent argument several other characters are more complex and deep than jack. Hurley maybe, Desmond, etc. Even Sayid has his moments. He can be mostly one dimensional, but he does have his moments. Jack's been eclipsed, imo, by Locke and Sawyer easily.
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that's about as good as he's ever been on this show...Locke's dad calling ben "Bug Eye" was money.
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EOM.............
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Good observation on their newfound freedom. It's like Locke said, he has his own path to follow now.Interesting thoughts about ol' Smokie. Could it be that once a character (i.e. Eko) has resolved their life's struggle, Smokie "assists" them to the other side???
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Great episode. Great show.
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Desmond, Locke, James/Sawyer, Sayid, Jin/Sun and Ben. I don't think they are killing James/Sawyer, because they have set him up to be a leader. Wasn't anyone else ticked off that Kate went and tattle tailed! Trying to win Jack back or something?
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Didn't Sawyer refer to Ben as "Bug Eye" a couple weeks ago, too?And yes, the ripping of the letter was a nice touch.
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Herc's usually spot on. I'm surprised this week didn't get him amped up. Every episode ends and I'm jonesing for the next one big time. Great episode tonight. I love what's being set up even though I don't know where it's going...I also think Sawyer may not be long for this world after what he did tonight and I LOVE the theory that the Others were pushing Locke to kill his Dad so the monster would kill him since they don't want him and his power around. Can't wait for next week.
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Supposedly we find out just who "Him" is next week...Assuming he actually exists and isn't yet another of Ben's manipulations, I'm guessing it's Bat Manuel himself, Nestor Carbonell. There's a brief flash in the trailer of "Richard Alpert" with Jesus hair, presumably from Ben's flashback. Thoughts?
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Desmond before Locke? noooooo. I'd flip Locke and Desmond but other than that I like your listing. But one thing regarding Jin/Sun. I don't think they are great on the island but their flashbacks are where they shine. So i think I would flip Ben and them.
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I naysay that Sawyer will be looking into dark clouds soon. He can still have flashbacks that would relate to his actions on the island. He has a daughter that would make for flashbacks and he may have knocked up Kate with all that lovin'. That would keep him in the game. Season 4 could see Sawyer trying to save a kidnapped Kate.
2nd note: If people heal on the island why aren't wrinkles and Locke's eye scar going away? -
they might be setting him up to be a leader but i think he'll be killed. As Stallone mentioned, his story arc is complete now. Him killing Sawyer is the tipping point to trigger a smokie. And the look on Ben's face when he sees Locke carry dead Sawyer is going to be priceless. He'll have a smile so wide. Little does he know.. haha
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And I don't think Ben wants to get rid of him, or wanted him to kill Cooper. I think this was Locke's initiation to Otherdom. He has now manipulated another person into committing murder to serve his own purposes. The same kind of thing Ben has been doing since we met him. It seemed to me like Ben would rather Locke get Sawyer to kill Cooper than have Locke do it himself. Either way Locke's still a murderer, it doesn't matter that he didn't choke Cooper himself. I knew Locke would turn traitor to assure himself that he's "special." And I do think he's a traitor, regardless of his warning to Sawyer about Juliet. He talked down to Kate about killing her father, but he's no different. Anyway, that was one awesome episode. And I think Jack and Juliet are now mindfucking Kate. If they had something to tell her they'd just tell her. You don't say "I think we should tell her" "No not yet" right in front of someone unless your playing mindgames with them.
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I know I say this every week, but dude. Sure it was slow, and led up to being everything we knew before anyway, but still. A good bit of misdirection with the Ben stuff.
My favorite stuff was on the beach. "We should tell her." "No."
!!!
And next week's the Ben flashback! W00! -
And was that really Cooper and if so is he really dead? If it was really him wouldn't he have been trying to con his way out of things? He seemed to be going out of his way to get someone to kill him. Like the Emperor begging Luke Skywalker to strike him down and take his place. He knew Luke had no chance of killing him, but that if he tried he'd probably be a convert to the dark side--like Locke is now. And does anyone else not trust Naomi?
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till I get to watch... WOOT
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"Oh. OH. Its Locke's DAD!!" Come on. You all know you saw that subplot coming a mile away. The only interesting thing that happened tonight was Jack and Juliet revealing that they're in cahoots. I think Juliet will be one of the casualities. Does Locke's dad count as one of the people who are going to die? He meets all the requirements; The ones that die supposedly do in May espisodes (like tonight), and they're all characters we've "gotten used to". That's probably what they're going to do ...just kill off minor characters we've known for a while: Locke's dad, Juliet, Mr. Smiley, etc. Oh, and some SPOILERS: Ben is the DeGroot's son. That's how he's been on the island his entire life.
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Ive often worried Josh Holloway's a bit one-note, but I second a previous poster who said he acted his ass off tonight. That whole plot, plus the LOADS of intrigue on the beach, made the episode one of the best this season.
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There is so much goin on if you slowmo the preview for next week...who the hell is Roger Work Man and why is his t-shirt on the preview?
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Isn't that the name on the shirt that was found in the van Hurley and company discovered?
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I'm guessing they have a plan to get off the island (or at least, *think* they have a plan). Considering they were already supposed to get off the island together on the sub, it would make sense that when it blew up, their first thought was "crap, we gotta figure something else out". And since they were both fucked over at the same time, they'd wanna work together.
Also, it would explain why Juliet would want to tell Kate their secret once Kate started about a) no one trusting Jake, and b) how there might be a way to get off the island.
Why Jack wouldn't want to tell Kate, though, I have no idea... unless he maybe doesn't trust her. -
Pull out another bag of tricks from your scientific box.
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Yea that was the guy in the van from the Hurley episode so he'll be making an apperance...also their was a single frame of some angelic looking ghost like woman, a single frame of Dr. Alpert with long hair, a shot of Eko's stick with a smiley face
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time's wasting and you're not gonna live forever (sawyer!)
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I was really expecting tonight to be lame due to Herc's review. Well thank God that was way off. That was one of the best episodes this year. The intensity was just great.
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I already like it a bazillion times better than last weeks, which somehow was given a 5 star rating, and this weeks only a 3 star rating.... makes ya think.....
can I get paid to write a good review of something bad please please, with suger on top? -
Hurley's van is back, baby! How about a van flashback? Definitely an awesome ep, way better than Man from Tall - I was one of the few people that wasn't that shocked by Locke's fall. I thought it was a bit too easy. But yeah, I definitely think Locke is being manipulated. I have a hard time believing BatManuel doesn't do everything that Ben tells him to. Can't wait til next week!
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I was thinking about it, The others don't like flawed, bad people. People like Kate (murderer), Sawyer (murderer), Sayid (Torturer) were not on Jacob's list. I think Ben put Locke's dad out there to make sure Ben wasn't a bad guy. Ben wanted to make sure Locke isn't a murderer. Maybe Jacob told Ben to give Locke that test.
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He really acted like a man who thought he was already in Hell. Being tied up and tortured, and meeting all the people you wronged in your life wanting revenge. No wonder he thought he was in hell.
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to make sure Locke* is no a bad guy, not Ben.
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fuck. Someone said yesterday that watching Heroes is fun, but watching Lost is like work. I think it's a mistake to watch every week, maybe I'll just wait for the whole season to come out on DVD.
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the purple sky screwed communications up and now you can't get signals on the island.
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. . . until Sawyer plays that tape and Kate smacks the smile off that smug bitch Juliet's traitorous face.
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...than the fact that Sawyer, who didn't even remember to bring his SHOES with him on the trip, brought the letter? There is a man obsessed. So...anyone else suspect that the person he strangled to death was really the smoke monster?
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Herc, way more than 3 stars man. We have only guesses that Locke's dad was the real sawyer... The idea's about the island being purgatory...
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come on you know what he was digging up!
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When the others were taking up camp?
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Herc, knew this episode was amazing, and is just being sarcastic. Cool.
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Herc, are you high? What the hell man! This shows has always been about the big story of the island and the character's individual stories. Yes, they sometimes lean too much on the character bits over the island. But this episode took two of the most compelling character stories, tied them together in a gripping way and then actually provided a solid f'ing definitive ending to both. On Lost!!!! Three years worth of build up that is finally paid off and you label it superfluous and treading water. Unbelievable.
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I didn't think they were actually going to do it, but they did. Great resolution to the Sawyer/Locke backstories. I really hope they don't pull some lame "it wasn't really the real Sawyer" stunt. It would only cheapen a great episode.
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I noticed them too, warp11. I think it was just birds though. Those similar sounds that *are* Smoky tends to be a little more mechanical sounding...longer drawn out bits of the chgchgchgchgch - chgchgchgchg-chgchg ... sound (well, how would *you* spell it?). There's also a regular slight modulation of the pitch of the sound. (Yeah, I don't watch this show too much or anything.) The scene in question though, it sounded like birds.
Watch, I'll be wrong now.
I'm digging some of the theories about Ben wanting Smoky to kill Locke and such.
I've actually been thinking that they've already sorta answered the reason why certain people are healed on the island and others (no pun intended) are not. From the Rose & Barnard episode, there are in various parts of the world, certain 'springs', so to speak, of magical super healing energy type stuff (TM). The one Rose visited in Australia wasn't the right kind of energy for her; on the island, it's not the right kind for Ben. (the fertility thing, who knows.) But in this episode, Ben implied there was a connection between Locke's presence and his ability to get up out of the wheelchair. Maybe Locke radiates this energy somehow? That's why he's special? Is he the key to curing all the wacky shit, including the women having babies?
Oh, and I'm not buying the whole "plane's in the sea, they're in hell" business. Apparently they said there's a gamechanger coming, but the Hell storyline would, in my opinion, be exactly the kind of "they're in a snowglobe" kind of explanation the creators have categorically said they would not do - and I'll be disappointed if that is the part of the 'game' they changed.
No, just as whatever overarching force is behind this (my money's on good ol' Hanso still) was able to make a bus just happen to hit Juliet's husband, so too was Papa Sawyer's accident not entirely accidental. The dudes took him, fixed him up (at least somewhat) and took him to the island, and they kept him sedated the whole way. In TV world at least, it would totally make sense that the trip would seem instantaneous to him. That, couple with what he believes about the plane crash and now seeing Locke, it's understandable that he would think he's in hell. But no. -
...if he thinks this week is "ultimately superfluous." Are you kidding me?! This was quite possibly the best episode since Season 1!
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*SPOILER* His last name is/was Linus. Also check out this pic. http://tinyurl.com/2kg4sm
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of course, it's no DRIVE. cough.
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If only the flight 815 survivors would actually talk to each other, they would figure out how connected they all are. It seems they've been on the island enough months for a handful of people to have told their life stories already, and now that Sawyer and Locke have fit a few of he puzzle pieces together, I'm hoping this leads up to one hell of a jaw dropping jumping on couches (tom cruise style) cliff hanger of a season finale. I want to know more about this magic box, if it does indeed exist. I want Hurly to get a new girlfriend, I want to see how the one-eye russian is still alive, I want to see Penny Pretty re-united with Desmond. I want to see some Time Travel, I want to see the series last 5 seasons, and then wrapped up with a full length feature film in theaters in which we get to see freckles in her birthday suit.
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Is that Libby in the teaser for next week's episode?? http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/
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and they're not in purgatory, they're in Hell. I love that over the last two episodes the show came right out and said that... and apparently no one actually believes it. Of course, if they're all dead, how to people (like Pilot, Joanna, Ana Lucia, Etham, Libby, Paulo and Nikki, Mr. Eko, etc.) die? Well, that's called advancing through the rings of Hell. *** So what is a plausible explanation for Locke's will and Ben's "magic box" metaphor bringing Tom Sawyer to the island if he wasn't actually in Hell? Kidnapped by Smiley the ambulence guy? *** On the subject of Kate in danger because women who get pregnant on the island die... um, Kate and James are both adults and kinda know how that stuff works, and they probably don't actually want to have a baby on the island. I, uh, don't want to get all graphic here, but if you're seen any pornography (I hear there's some on the internets) you may be aware that there are a number of things they can do that constitute 'making love' and culminate in orgasm that don't actually result in pregnancy. (Don't ask your mom, if she knew, you wouldn't be here.) *** I'll bet Terry O'Quinn is happy. He was griping in interviews during season two about how his badass Locke character was getting wimpy. I'm not sure whose side Locke's on other than his own or even if he's sane, but he's definitely badass. *** i think Kate's phone sex ad is still in use; a local station was running it regularly on late Saturday nights up until last year. At first you go "Is that...?" and then you;re all "Yeah, it has to be..." What's up with that diagonal indentation across her chin, anyway? Nearly as distracting as Tina Fey's scar. *** About Locke's healed to a point and then stopped facial (eyebrow and cheek) scar. he wanted to walk, he wanted to be tough and cool. And what's cooler and tougher than the exact same scar Ian Fleming described James Bond as having in all the novels.? *** I think Ausiello said "You would be wrong to assume that Jack isn't gong to die." Maybe he thought he was being clever or obscure with the multiple negatives, but it sounds to me like Jack is going to die ...at last. Or maybe Ausiello isn't as clever as he thinks he is and just screwed up the hint. Hard to say. I hope the predicted five deaths aren't all obscure minor characters like Cindy and Mr. Friendly... And is it wrong to think Henry Gale.Ben Linus is the most interesting character fo the year? *** And I'm sure hercules is tired of hearing this, but five for last week and three for this is just wrong. I'd say three point five or four last week and four and a half this week. Not that this is a democracy.
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Oh I get it, Hercules likes that quote because he thinks it's a subtle shout out to himself - "We should tell Herc!".
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I don't know, dude. The close up looks like Libby but the further away shot doesn't. Also, check out this image:http://tinyurl.com/32fh9e
It could be a trick of the lights, but isn't that Dustin Hoffman driving one of those VWs?? What the F have those Dharma guys done to his head?? It's HUGE! -
would this shitty talkback system put a space in a tinyurl?? Ah... because it's shitty...And i've still not watched the episode yet. This thing is taking AGES to download... :-(
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Tell her that if she don't get me a buger and fries i am gonna kick her ass in the sea.
Only kidding, so whats the big screat well i think its either A) The island is cloked klingon style all transmisions and visibilty are NIL. B) if you leave the island without some injection (dharam issue) your contaminated to the outside world and die. 3) Your head explodes bainscanners style. -
It rocks even harder than I thought. Man was it good. They really could've made Ben a one-note "villan", but the way they have him constantly manipulating people is just incredible, and Michael Emerson is playing a role he must have been born to play. I can't imagine anyone else being that creepy. I did like Cooper calling him "bug eyes" though - pretty funny. The only reason this episode would get 4 stars instead of 5 from me is because, once again, there was no Goth Claire in it.
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Did anyone catch the "jump" in the screen, almost like it was an editing mishap?
And I distinctly heard a voice or SOMETHING as he was walking away from the tree the body was leaning against..... -
Maybe the secret Jack is keeping is that he knows what the plan is for the others to take the pregnant women and he agrees with it? Hmm, I suppose that wouldn't explain when he was talking to Juliet about trusting her in private, though. I don't have much on that.I disagree with people who think that Ben wants to get rid of John. I think it's more manipulation, motivation to get John to prove him wrong.So we learned some interesting stuff about the island. We still haven't reached a full explanation, but I'm just glad the plane crash thing was nipped in the bud after all the lame "the others planted some wreckage" crap from last week.What was Sayid digging up when we first saw him? Was he looking for the cable? Or something that hasn't occured to me?
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To the guy posting a 'spoiler' above that Ben's parents are the DeGroots.... WRONG. It's our old friend Corpsey McWorkman.
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Let's assume she's telling the truth. The wreckage of the plane was found, along with all the bodies. So what's going on here? My guess now: Flight 815 and all its passengers entered a time rift which created two parallel reality versions of the plane and its passengers. One version crashed into the ocean and all the passengers died. The other version crashed onto the island. The island itself exists only in this parallel timeline. If this is true, then the question is, how do the Others go to and from this island, and how did Desmond get on it?
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Rigged... not by the Others, but by Dharma, who don't want anyone investigating the island.
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
Naomi works for Penny... but Penny works for Dharma... and they are the bad guys. Yes, Penelope Widmoore is Evil. The Others are good guys, kinda. Jacob is Richard Alpert, who gave Locke the Sawyer file in this week's ep.
END SPOILERS -
They crashed on an island controlled by a crazy corporation with power and deep frickin' pockets. They got files of impossible knowledge on everyone on the flight afterall. So then they decide they'd like to use the folks from the plane as tests subjects. So they quickly buy a derlict plane of the same type that crashed, dummy it up as the actual plane, throw some bodies on it and sink it in the ocean. As stated on the show the plane wasn't pulled to the surface and carefully examined. They sent robot cams down to check the wreckage. Not exactly going to get exacting proof that way. So now nobody is looking for the passengers and they can do with them as they please. And Locke's dad got knocked out in an accident and woke up on the island. Well they arranged an accident for the pretty blonde doc's ex and when they took her to the island they had her unconscious the whole time.
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Just because you write Spoiler does not make it true lol.
I can go with your first statement that Dharma could be behind the plane crash.
It seams the the exsistance of Dharam has been gone for a while, des has been on the island 3+ years and how long was his mate there for the one des killed on the rocky beach?
That i belive was the last dharam island contact apart from the automated pallet drops.
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The producers have stated the island experiment is not hell, purgatory, an alternate dimension, or related to time travel. Great episode but I know the big cliffhanger season finale is going to leave me wanting more.
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Every woman I know who watches the show is in complete lust with him. He's not going anywhere. His character also helps to keep things light. I thought the murder scene was excellent. Sawyer's rage was palpable. What Locke did was shitty. It is interesting to see where this character is going. The Island is a religion to him and he may become a zealot.
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does not rule out "all the crap" about the wreckage and bodies found being a cover up. As I said before, a 747 doesn't plunge from 30,000 feet into the ocean and come to a gentle rest 4 miles down. In fact, that there is a claim that they located "all of the plane and all of the bodies" reeks of a set up. Whoever was controlling those remote submersible cameras could easily counterfeit images that would satisfy public curiosity.
By the way - Hell? Seriously? Good to know that if I'm ever headed there I can jump on a sub or helicopter. Even better, if you get to know the right people you can even travel back and forth, like Richard Alpert and Ethan Rom. -
Always one of my favorite presidents. While I'm all for the sci-fi and fantastical elements of the show, you'd think by now the biggest of red herrings would be self evident.
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Those damn trees have been a little too quiet of late for my liking. I can't even remember the last time one of the characters heard (or even mentioned) them.
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I think with all the power and manipulation that the others can do, this must be the Prisoner island or a second prisoner island. The others live in a more polite version of the village. But with all this power, there must be a number one... wonder if Christopher Eccleston will show up as the new number six?
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we all know he doesnt like Lost that much. Too bad its not written by a Buffy writer. Than it would get 9 stars
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Finally! I've been throwing that out for weeks! LOL
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In a nutshell:
1). Based on Naomi's placement of the alleged crash, I took one more stab at working the NUMBERS into geographic coordinates. Trying to match a South Pacific/South East Asia location, I used Lat. 4deg,8min, 15sec/Long. 108deg,42min,23sec. (O.K. - Ileft out the 16, but its a crackpot idea anyway) Puts you in ocean between Singapore and Malaysia near Island of Natuna Besar.
2). Never heard of Natuna Besar before, but googling revealed a link to some Atlantis location theories - basically all of the islands in Southeast Asia were part of "Sundaland". For various reasons, may fit bill for Atlantis.
3). This took me back to a previous effort to see if the numbers had some DHARMA new age meaning. Never really panned out, but this little nugget from cystalinks.com about geopathic energy lines stuck in my mind: "We see Dr. Lefors Clark's bow-shaped 'diamagnetic energy vortex' shaping the land in a smooth curve. We can also see the same curving formation created by the east coast of India and the west coast of the China / Korea / Vietnam area of Asia. This vortex is balanced between points 24 and 13. We remind ourselves that these smooth curves illustrate the spiraling nature of the superstrings that make up these geometric energy fields, here expressed as spiraling lines of magnetic force. According to Dr. Clark, the point at the center of the 'bowtie' becomes a magnetic null zone of zero gravity when appropriately triggered by the right geometric positions of the Sun, Moon and Planets to the Earth. In those moments of conjunction, there is a 'hyperdimensional bleed-through,' and we then get time dilations."
Time dilation! Hyper-dimensional bleed through! Magnetic null zone! All in the same place as a theoretical Atlantis location. -
"After last week’s installment, with its many bombshells, this week’s affair will strike many as fitfully intriguing but ultimately superfluous and disposable, another attempt to tread water. " SMOKE MORE CRACK PLZ
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to come and sort them all out, what was that thing called the equalizer or the eliminator, that thing was the scaryest yet most shit "security device"
Biggest over looked question in lost.
How can smoke grab you?
second being why we aint seen a polar bear riding a horse to a frogs funeral ? -
is the big white balloon, providing you are making a "Prisoner" reference. Great show, that.
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Is smokie really coming for him or has he done exactly what he needed to in order to survive? Look at the bloody feet. Didn't that seem symbolic to you? Treking across the jungle and getting all bloodied up? Doesn't that remind you of a controversial hippy that got bloodied up and killed but then was reborn? He even had a moment of comfort in the stream. Nope, Sawyer is just becoming or being reborn (island style) into the man he should have been. He saved Lockes soul. If Locke had killed his own father don't you think the island would have rejected him? Then where would we be?
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This was probably the most emotionally gripping episode since Michael shot Ana Lucia and Libby! Good stuff! The performances might be enough to garnish a few Emmy nods! I agree with USA Today, the LA Times, TV Guide and the NY Times: 4 STARS (out of 4)!
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i loved the episode, great all around, from the flight 815 story to sawyer killing sawyer, lol
loved how lockes dad said theyre in hell, almost like theyre sticking it to all the losers that keep saying theyre in hell or purgatory...as if saying duh theyre not..hahha......"im on a pirate ship in the middle of the jungle, this is hell, what else could it be" great line -
He's always been a shitty leader but cripes, man! How does he come back from this? The worst part though was Sayid telling Kate who then promtly rushed over to Vichy Jack and blabbered everything in front of Juliet. Nice. The Desmond cabal should've just lied to Kate as a way of spreading disinformation to the Others. BTW, Bai Ling was on The Unit this week.
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Perhaps this was the rationale behind the use of the Blind Boys of Alabama song "I Shall Not Walk Alone" during Season 1? Good stuff!
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herc is smoking some serious crack if he doesnt think ths was one of the best episodes of the entire show, especially with locke and sawyer realizing what they have in common and the fact that sawyer knows that locke was a cripple and couldnt walk til he got to the island... only person since rose
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I had forgotten that and it makes my case even stronger.
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What really happened. Sawyer killed Sawyer. What else did we think was going to happen. It just took 40 minutes for it to happen. It was like waiting through the hour long results show for American Idol. The most interesting part of the epi was Locke and Rousseau interactions. They were both doing something that ANYBODY else on the island would stop and question, but they both said hello and went about their business. I found that to be the most interesting part. The only thing answered was "was he realling going to kill him or not", and when he did, it was like, "okay, time to move on." Just because a guy chokes another guy doesn't make it a ***** rating.
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where the hell is the jericho talkback.... thats another great show that AICN seems to ignore....season finale next week
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Penny isn't bad. Her father may be, but she's definitely not.
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Good point. Jerico and Supernatural are both quality shows! I've watched a few episodes of both, and they are great! However, I will have to wait until the DVDs to get into the dramas. ... ... ... As for the Emmy nominations: It would be silly for the Academy to ignore LOST this year, particularly with last year's shows in dramatic freefalls. LOST will certainly garnish at least four or five nods, but 24 will probably struggle for two.
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The delivery is what made it a 5* rating. Anybody with half a brain knew that Lockes sperm donor was Sawyers Sawyer, and that Sawyer/James would kill him. I am with you on the Danielle thing. What is she doing with a case of dynamite? Crazy people run amock on this island.
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Will people ever shut up about the Four Toes statues? Out of all the mysteries of the island, that it the one that is the most boring and stupid. Why does anyone care?
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One might point out that LOST, like all great serial dramas, is a MARATHON and not a SPRINT. The show is not for the attention-challenged. The show is intelligent, witty and emotionally engrossing. If you cannot be touched emotionally by a particular show -- or you find that the pace is far too slow -- then LOST is NOT the show you. In my opinion, LOST is great because the writers/directors/actors have managed to change our opinion of the characters as time goes by. Once upon a time, we all loved Jack, Kate, Sun and Michael. We hated Jin, Sawyer, Charlie and Sayid. We didn't trust Locke. Now we despise Jack, Kate, while we love Jin, Sawyer, Charlie and Sayid. And we distrust BOTH Locke and Sun. ... ... ... This show has probably done the best job as such for an ensemble cast as any serial drama in the history of television.
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I agree, I don't think Sawyer's story arc is complete - It's just beginning!
I'll admit I was ready to bail on the show, but glad I didn't.
I watched this show in an emergency room!! I was doing some work in my shop and I was rushing to get done and I ended up gashing my hand with a utility knife. I figured I was going to miss the show but the place I went to has 10 LCD TV's in every waiting room! I missed the first 15 minutes, but saw the rest of it (for the most part) while waiting to get 5 stitches. :) -
Reading last nights posts and saw someone say something about the plane entering a "time rift which created two parallel reality versions of the plane and its passengers." I think that's close, but it's more about decisions/infinite possibilities. The pilot chose to turn the plane around in 1 reality and didn't in another. We now know the outcome of both. The island is a place where all realities come together.
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Interesting take! It sounds a lot like the multiverse from Crisis on Infinite Earths. Parallel universe? Possible. They might not take the effort to completely explain it though.
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I always bitch that the writers can't answer their own questions...well, what's worse, never answering, or ripping off the answers from older and better films/stories (Solyaris)?
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rblog - brilliant explanation. Hope the writers go with that or something cooler.
dooku - dang! I hate stitches, but at least you got your Lost fix and you can watch the first 15 minutes today on abc.com - and it is Lee, the masculine spelling is why I have hated it.
On another note: People keep saying that the writers won't come up with good ideas in here and in the Heroes tb. Guys, the writers are geeks just like us and they get paid to do what they do. We come up with fun/complicated ideas i nhere during our spare time... these guys are actually doing it for a living. I have faith in our fellow geeks. -
dumb blonde
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I agree. To explain it in full to your regular TV audience would be over their heads. I've tried to explain it to friends and they thought I was high.
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;->...I like it!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't know how it's gonna go down if they try and reveal the Others were really "good guys" in the first place. Even if they're trying to do something worthwhile, they act like dicks, and I really don't think it's fair to expect the audience to accept them as good guys.
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The next few episodes will define the series!
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Because that would make Locke a 'bad' person in the eyes of the Others. That's why Ben tells Locke not to bother returning without a body. He wants the other Others to think Locke killed Cooper, making Locke a murderer and therefore a "bad person" in the eyes of the other Others. That will discredit Locke as far as the other Others are concerned, preserving Ben's position of leadership. I'm going to make a leap of faith and assume that Richard (the guy who recruited Juliette) was not sent to Locke as part of one of Ben's manipulations, but was giving Locke genuine info. (I admit that either possibility is just as likely, but...) Richard was correct, IMHO, that Ben was jealous of Locke, but Ben wasn't trying to discredit Locke by having Locke wimp out in front of the other Others. The discrediting of Locke was always going to be Locke's murder of Cooper. Ben was trying to get Locke to kill Cooper, either right then and there in front of the other Others (which would have been the best for Ben) or, second best case for Ben, trying to embarass and humiliate Locke into killing Cooper sometime later.
Also, I can't believe no one picked up on what appears to be some desension in the ranks of the Others. I'm referring to Richard telling Locke that Ben is wasting time with fertility issues and not concetrating on the important things like why they're there on the island. What are the things that Ben is neglecting in favor of dealing with fertility issues? -
I totally agree, let the game come to you...
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you may be onto something. maybe not. maybe.
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So if the world believes that Oceanic Air Flight 815 went down (intact with bodies strapped in): 1.) where did they get the bodies to fill all the seats...empty a graveyard? 2.) What about Michael and Walt? Surely, they have reached civilization on their boat by now, right? Don't you think they would have pulled up to the first port they came to and said "Hey, the survivors of Flight 815 are alive! They're on the cock-a-doody island!" Sorry...I was watching "Misery" after "Lost".
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Concerning the dissension in the Others camp - Ben got a tumor on an island that heals. This is proof ot the other others that he is not worthy. Guess who is. Locke. By forcing him to kill his own father Ben would have made Locke unworthy, IMO. On another note: Locke is now indebted to James/Sawyer, and we know John still cares about his fellow crash mates. He told James about Bens plans, and gave him evidence in order for him to protect them. When Locke comes into power James will be in good with him. This is going to be so awesome next season!
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I guess you haven't looked at Herc's Lost ratings in the last few weeks, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a nonsense statement.
BTW, Lost *is* written on occasion by a Buffy writer: Drew Goddard. He co-wrote the Juliet ep from a few weeks ago, and he co-wrote the Ben coming up next week. There has been at least one other Buffy writer involved, as well, David Fury before we moved over to 24. -
guess I should proofread:
co-wrote the Ben coming--> co-wrote the Ben one coming
Fury before we--> Fury before he -
somebody read it! I realize I made a few leaps in logic and took some liberties to make it work...so I agree its a definite maybe. Late last night it seemed like serendipity. Still, the Atlantis/lost civilization connection does seem compelling with the four toe statue and the pillar we saw Cooper tied to last night.
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Maybe: She's found hanging from the trees, amid "wreckage," she first pulled Desmond, Jin and Charlie off the beach and away from watching Juliet's spy/abduction mission. Now she's in camp, and providing a useless blocked signal phone, has distracted Sayid, Hurley and others away from Juliet. Kate spills the beans, and neither Jack/Juliet seem at all surprised or elated by the news, only concerned about whether or not they should tell Kate something. Jack and Juliet share a medical background, and this is what underlies their apparent alliance. Jack probably knows about Juliet's mission by now and supports it, because he ultimately wants Sun and Claire to survive. I also suspect we'll soon see a pregnant Kate, what with all the Sawyer fucking she's been up too.
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Right, but what I was getting at regarding the dissension among the Others is Richard's comment that Ben is not focusing on what's really important - distracting himself with fertility etc.
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There is all sorts of crazy ass theories like that... the statue foot and the column may be from the past but may also be a planet of the Apes type thing where the Island is really the future. There was some theory about how it was the statue of liberty's foot. check out (and post your theory to) www.4815162342.com
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had to be when Locke was just sitting outside the door to the brig in the Black Rock. Sawyer is behind the door screaming. And in through the door walks Rousseau, just stopping by the get some dynamite. Locke doesn't seem remotely shocked to see her, and she couldn't care less what he's doing there or what's going on behind the door.
It's pretty clear the dynamite will play a role soon - probably she's planning a "rescue" of Alex. -
right and I was supporting you with the tumor. Another good point was made by Locke a while back when he was in Bens house. I can't remember his exact words but the gist(sp) of it was that Ben wasn't living the right life style for the island. Be one with it (trust it to take care of you) don't build on top of it.
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Naomi has not yet said WHEN 815 crashed, am I correct? She would just assume that these people on this Island knew. I predict that somebody's going to mention being on the Island for 80 days and Naomi's going to say 815 crashed 4 years ago. Which would help explain Walt's deep voice and hair in funny places when he comes back last episode of S3/first of S4. ;) I hope.
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Because for me last week was a bit of a snooze fest while this one was a really great episode¬
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that would explain the futuristic sat-phone
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Very predictable, but still very good. One of the best weeks in TV ever. Kate is a freakin' moron. In fact, hotness aside, she's officially my least favorite character, taking over the lead from Jack. Locke has always been and will always be my favorite. I'm glad they didn't pussy foot around with the "infiltrator" thing. He's on his own journey, that has always been apparent. And the mission he's on is frankly more important than anyone getting off the island.
Everyone on the island heals, why is Locke "special"? He can't be falling for that since he knows that Rose has healed as well. Why do you guys think having him kill his father would make him unworthy? The others easily kill people without regret. When they say "good" and "bad", they have different standards. And if there is a power struggle, why would that other guy prod him into it if it would make him "unworthy?"
Perhaps the smoke only comes for the "bad" peoeple who resolve their issues. And the test was to see if the smoke would come for Locke after he had killed his father. Once it doesn't, they know they can trust him.
Herc, lay off the pipe. Whenever everyone on a talback is in agreement (very rare), Herc is usually on the other side. Slugworth, a massive four toed statue built by some ancient lost civiliztion is boing to you? You and Herc must be hitting the pipe together. The whole mystery of the island is likely tied into it. -
There was a plane crash but the one that was seen from the Other's camp was not the Losties. It was a Dharma supply plane. The Losties crash was implanted by the Others in order to continue an experiment. The brainwash room was used to program false lives into the Losties. The kicker......drum roll.....the Losties are actually the Dharma Initiative but were taken over during the Purge and used as test subjects. Everyone has a file, Desmond, Sawyer, Kate, etc...thats the reason each person seems to have a tie with someone else in flashbacks. They are connected because they really do know each other.
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ok, so we know that Hero's is ripping...er borrowing...er having the same thematical elements as Watchmen and Civil War (which is fine I like Hero's) and Kring and Cruse and Lindoff (I think all 3) worked togather and have jokingly said that Hero's and Lost share the same universe, so it could be possible that there is a "Crisis" on Infinite Earths thus the purpose for Dharma...However I think that's a little too convinent. I don't trust Naomi YET, things could change, and I could learn to trust her. However I don't think Penny is working for Dharma/Mittelos/Others etc as someone above postulated. I think Windmore KNOWS of Dharma and it's expirements, and Mr. Windmore may have been a part of it but Penny herself is working AGAINST it in an attempt to find Desgood call on Richard Alpert on being jacob hadn't thought about it but it very well COULD be. Steve man, dedication, hurring to get done to watch LOST you cut yourself and still manage to catch in the waiting room. sucks you had to wati 45 mn. to get in though. Last time I had to go to the ER I only had to wait like 2 minutes, course it was at 2am and I cut myself opening something up to cook...no I wasn't drunk...or high, just needing to start something in the slow cooker but yeah...dedication brother, dedicationDes has officially corrupted my language as I now add brother to every sentence.
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But I think the plane crashing and sinking intact with all the passengers within a small radius (or even strapped inside) is much more likely than the only alternative (providing Namoi isn't lying), that someone just happened to get hold of a ton of dead bodies to fill up a spare plane, all for the sake of making sure that nobody looks for an island that is almost impossible to get to, even if they were trying for days/weeks (and it seems like it was just lucky that Naomi had the coordinations, or else nobody would ever have found it, even if they were looking for a missing plane).Just out of curiosity for those who adhere to the different passages of time on and off the island theory: is it just the issue of the actor who plays walk reaching puberty that is making this a possibility, or is there further evidence? (I don't consider anagrams like mittelos, since just because the show acknowledges possibilities, doesn't mean it's true. Just look at the Hell stuff in this weeks episode -- a theory I was never in support of, though I entertained the idea that it was purgatory when I watched the pilot).
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ALSO, LAST NIGHT'S DEATH COUNTED FOR ONE OF THE FIVE... We have four to go...
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I mean in the Lost universe: obviously the plane really crashing would be an impossibility in real life if they're all still walking about. I don't have a theory about why it happened, but I'm sure the eventual explanation will be better than the fake crash site with fake/alternative dead bodies. As I said, that's a hell of a lot of effort to go to just to prevent the island being found when the island is almost completely undetectable (by professionals I might add) in the first place.
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the search party picked up the reading when the blast went off, which means the island has to be in the present.
also we have already seen they have contact with the outside world (the World Series). -
about the wreckage. She said they found it near Bali, which is Northwest of Australia. 815 was heading to LA so that means the plane was flying Northeast when it lost communication and turned back towards Fiji. Fiji is still Northeast of Australia though and nowhere near Bali. So what's the deal? How would the plane have ended up near Bali?
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Great episode. We may have seen it coming, but that's just because many of us go overboard with the theorizing for this show.
The statue will not be seen until season 4.
Richard Alpert is NOT JACOB. The writers have said Jacob is not a character we've met before. It wouldn't make sense for Alpert to be Jacob, anyway.
Supposedly, the huge set piece next season (Season 1 was the beach/caves, Season 2: The Hatch, Season 3: The Other's camp) will be "The Ruins".
We will find out how Patchy survived the fence.
God this kills me, it seems that with each episode i become more anxious to see how this will end up. The summer wait is going to be so painful. -
Probably in the same way that Locke's dad ended up there after getting hit by a car. Or the same way Yemi's plane got there, or Desmond's boat.Unless they pulled a "Juliet" on Cooper/Sawyer and simply sedated him after deliberatley hitting him with a car and then transporting him to the island. That would be a valid theory I suppose, and the others obviously knew he was Locke's dad. If they knew this without him telling them who he was, then it makes sense that they could have found him and done all that sedation crap. But to me, Ben wouldn't talk so much about this metaphorical box if it was all total bullshit, and if Cooper's arrival was completely orchestrated by them.So I'd say, based on what we've heard so far, that a lot of the arrivals on the island have all been something to do with this metaphorical box. Ever since I heard about the box, I've always thought that the island could be responsible for the elaborate (maybe pre-determined) orchestration of events in the real world, hence everyone being connected, and Desmond's theme's of fate/predestination.
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was referenced in The Third Policeman, it contains "a substance once described as: “the essential inherent interior essence which is hidden in the root of the kernel of everything”, and which is literally everything one desires." Remember that the writers or producers or whoever said that reading The Third Policemen would give people a better understand of the show.
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could be moving slower, timewise, than the rest of the world. Nothing we've seen has told us conclusively that the time on the island is exactly the same as the time in the rest of the world. It's not as though the one time we were off island (penny and her arctic buddies) we were given a timestamp or anything.
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to keep the losties in the dark... He doesn't want Locke to get an idea of the power the others wield in the outside world, so he makes a comment about this box... Either that or the island does have a power... I'm ok with either.
I sort of wonder if Ben wants to sacrifice Locke at the "ancient place" he's leading them to. The thing is, he can't sacrifice him until he's done something "bad" so he brings him the one person he thinks Locke would kill... Maybe it's a smokey sacrifice? Still, sawyer killing daddy locke may be a real crimp in that plan. Who knows.
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COULDN'T be moving slower". Jeez, that's awkward phrasing on my part. I'm basically suggesting that Island time is slower than real world time. It could be 4 years later in the real world, as far as we know.
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That's a fair point about time passage, but what evidence is there to support the possibility that time is moving slower/faster? Apart from resemblences to Narnia and Alice's Adventures Through the Looking Glass, are there any actual clues to suggest this? It hasn't been disproven (disproved?) but neither has the idea that the whole thing is just Jack Bauer's heroin-induced delusion.I think there might be some clues (I just can't think of them, which is why I'm asking), but I just hope it's not just the result of fans trying to account for Walt's puberty so he can return.
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They could have...taped it? A VCR?
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I also don't think Ben wants to get rid of Locke. I think he was just manipulating him to conform. I realise that Ben acted weird in last night's episode, but I think he is trying to prepare him for his new position which, whatever it is, seems to be one of responsibility on the island. Also, how come Ben credited John with the healing of his own post-op spine, when Mikhail credits the island for Naomi's recovery. Is it the same reason Ben got a tumour when nobody else did?
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If I had to cover up a plane crash, I wouldn't try to fake a scene with a plane and bodies planeted 4 miles below the ocean. I would pay-off or provide the expert who tells the world that the plane is there. After who is going to put on their snorkel and dive 4 miles to prove you wrong.
Come on, havent we learned anything from Iraq? All one has to do is SAY its there, and most of us will follow like sheep.
They dont have to buy a plane, they dont have to dig up bodies. They just need a good PhotoChop of some grainy black and white video of a toy plane in the bottom of a fish tank. Get an expert to say its real and you are golden. -
(which the producers said was important), there has also been: A Brief History of Time being read, Desmond seemingly time traveling/viewing the future and present and past all at once, and um... Well, that's why it's a THEORY.
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Haha... Yeah: and we're just maneuvering into the cockpit... HOLY SHIT: THAT'S THE BIGGEST TUNA I'VE EVER SEEN
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I think Richard's talk with Ben was a direct response to people complaining about the whole fertility issue. It may have been too soon for them to incorporate this into the show but it seems like they are writing things in the show as a direct response to the talk backs. People on the talk back were complaining about the fertility issue and Richard tells them that "Ben is too caught up in the fertility issue and has forgotten my they are on the island in the first place". I dont really have a problem with the fertility route because I know that it is not the whole premise behind the show. We still want to know what the point of the island is and why they are there.
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Never a good combination. Boomsday's a comin'
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What if there's something going on there, a plan of some sort. Juliet tells Jack The Others are coming to steal the pregnant women, Jack anticipates a fight and enlists the help of Rousseau, who wants her daughter back?
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Iraq!! That was a great statement. I know it's of topic, but I've said for a long time if you say it loud enough and long enough people will start believing it.
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said way back in the season. She said there were a group of them who didn't like how Ben was leading them. It's not as though the writers just made up dissent as a response to the fans. I don't think his talk had anything to do with what people were saying.
Besides, I don't remember too many people complaining about the fertility thing, anyway...
Also, if Rousseau is involved in Jack's plan, then we'll probably find out what it is in the finale when Jack has all his flashbacks. I'm betting that Juliet told Jack what's going on (the tape recorder, the planned kidnappings, etc, and they enlisted Rousseau to help booby trap the area. This finale is gonna be THE BOMB! [Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm totally ashamed of myself.] -
Can we really trust anything that Juliet or Richard says about the dislike for Ben among some people? I know Juliet said "I hate you Ben" last week but so what?
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it certainly sounds like that doesn't it? Ugh... ;)
I should clarify that I got into a treatment room right away and the TV's were in each room - little 10 inch LCD's on a boom that could be adjusted for your personal satisfaction. Everybody that came in commented on the show, and the Doctor herself was a fan, but behind on some DVR'd episodes and needed to catch up. It's funny to tell ER personnel that you are sitting there because you were being careless in a hurry to watch a stupid TV show! (all the while watching the show while telling the tale) -
I think that gives it a bit more weight. It was mentioned by 2 different people TO 2 different people. The question is, what's the original agenda and what's BEN'S agenda? I think the original agenda has something to do with the valenzetti equation and predicting (in order to prevent) the end of the world. Ben's ideas may be a bit more selfish?
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...sparked by the episode and this talkback.
1.) Healing doesn't equal regeneration. Thus, cuts and bruises can linger, Locke still has scarring, Mikey One-Eye still has, well, one eye and all that sort of thing. The island doesn't sweat the small stuff.
2.) I like the notion of Alpert as MUCH more than he seems. He may not be Jacob, but he may be 'the man behind the curtain' in a way not yet fully guessed. It may be that he was the one that put the "Get Jack to kill Ben" plan in Juliet's noggin. I kinda got the impression that when Ben asked Locke "who put that idea in your head" (I need to check the phrasing, he may have said "I wonder who...") that there was a note of sarchastic frustration, but not exactly surprise. As if this sort of thing was becoming annoyingly common and he knew the source.
My conclusion? Jacob is dead... maybe... but his myth/presence endures as a ruse. Alpert is the keeper of the island (or whatever), but he requires a special person to lead/channel/whatever the whole affair. Alpert is a vestige of the Dharma managers and Ben is in some (metaphorical?) way a child of the Dharma project. Alpert sees that the island is rejecting Ben and embracing Locke, and is ready to make the transition. Ben, of course, is not.
Maybe... -
has to be different than Ben's agenda, if we're to believe what Mikhail said about the war between The Others and Dharma. Dharma's agenda definitely had something to do with the equation and saving the world and all that. It seems like Dharma's agenda might have overlapped with The Others because of all the selective breeding stuff. It seems like The Others are still interested in doing that because of the lists and the good people and the bad people.
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Then he, like you said GOB, could easily still use Jacob as a source of fear for those who didn't know he was dead.
I agree about Ben and that "where did you get that idea" type line... It was as though he was suspicious that one of his own had been talking.
Also like the idea that the Island is unhappy with Ben and is trying to kill him... Or, at the very least, stopping him from healing. -
I kinda like that theory. Much more than some of the silly pergatory ones. How many times do they have to say it isn't that before it sinks in?
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Are indigenous to the island, how do they speak english so well? How are they so Americanized and technologically adept?
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We know that time on the island has been moving at the same rate as that of the rest of the world, at least up until the the plane crash. The proof of this is simple. Juliet knows when she went to the island, and she knows how long she was on the island. She also thinks the current date is the same date that Jack, and the 815 survivors do. Thus while Juliet spent her years on the island time flowed the same as it did in the real work.
Now, the key thing is the fact that all hell probably broke loose when Desmond turned the key. It's possible at that point the island became dislodged from time. Maybe it jumped forward, we'll see/ -
When the "sky turned purple". A phrase which, by the way, has always puzzled me, because I felt like the sky didn't look particularly purple to me at all... Just a very bright white...
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As I understand it, and if true, SPOILERS...
The Others were the local islanders whom Dharma emplyed as workmen "e.g. Roger, Workman". They rebelled. Penny's Dad works for/heads Dharma. They dropped food for their employees because they didn't realise the island was overrun by the rebel Workmen, i.e. the Others. They have stopped dropping food now as Locke entered 77 in the coms computer to indicate the Hostiles (i.e. the Others) had taken over the station.
It is unclear whether Naomi is there principally to rescue Desmond or recon the wider situation on the island for Dharma. Despite what I said upthread, ok I admit - it's not clear how much Penny knows about her Dad and Dharma. Maybe everything, maybe nothing. She found the island looking for Desmond - and it turned out it was the island her father established a scientific base on. Co-incidence? Well, that's LOST. -
how can they be locals though? Why do they speak English? Why are they there in the first place? I know Ben was born there but my guess is his parents were not born there and came there for some reason, maybe originally with Dharma? Then they rebelled?
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is actually Roger, if I understand correctly.
We'l find out next week if he was literally born on the island. -
His son was a bug-eyed bastard!
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"I think the plane crashing and sinking intact with all the passengers within a small radius (or even strapped inside) is much more likely" = 0.0% PROBABILITY. Again - 747 falls 30,000 feet, hits ocean going hundreds of miles and hour, then sinks 4 miles. Its "much more likely" that there would be teeny, tiny pieces strewn over a huge area.
Also, as pointed out by myself, 4815162342 and others, you don't need a full blown 747 stocked with dead bodies. Other alternatives, in fact, include phony images (like we see all the time with well done amateur photoshop jobs popping up on AICN) as well as the simplest explanation, just control the source that disseminates the news. The world would expect no survivors, and who is going to check when someone reports that is what happened?
That said, I do love the sc-fi and fantastical elements of the show. I even agree there might be some extra-dimensional, alternate time things going on. In the case of the plane being found, though, I think this is one of those red-herrings Cuse and Lindelof like to toss out there, and that the simplest explanation is probably the right one. Besides, haven't we been told that the "game changer" hasn't occurred yet?
Last thought: the idea of dead duplicate bodies hanging around underwater make me think "Prestige". Does Tesla work for DHARMA?
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was actually in the unit this week if anyone cares
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1. If being in Hell involves hammering Kate on a semi-regular basis, I've been being WAY too nice.
2. Cap'n Jack: I agree that people should have brains enough to not read a "synopsis" if they don't want spoilers. But I wonder about your motivation. You seem to be around just to pick fights...are you really that bored?
3. I think the people suggesting this is a parallel reality and different dimension and stuff have been abused by craptastic Marvel and DC storylines and need to step back and re-assess. That would suck badly.
Finally, a question:
We've sort of come to the conclusion that Smoky is kind of the "Moralistic Vigilante Bad Cop" of the island, so was the pilot from when they first arrived on the island just getting his long-overdue asswhooping? -
That's an assupmtion. How about Plane makes controlled crash landing, coming in low? You're assuming a mid-air break up or something, like what the Losties witnessed.
Despite what you read in crash safety cards, emergency landings on water are almost always fatal. In fact, I'm not sure of a large passenger jet plane EVER coming down safely mid-ocean or mid-sea, with that whole inflatable detactable-raft and whistles deal.
HOWEVER, if the pilot tried to do that, he would probably keep the wreckage more or less together (wings sheer off, maybe one snap half way along the fuselage?) and no-one would get 'pulped' by the impact.
The pressure at 4 miles down would mush em up somewhat, but you could still identify bodies seat by seat. -
To add to that theory- that would explain why the Others see themselves as 'good' and the Losties as 'bad'. Bcz the Losties use to be Dharma, who did experiments on the Others, until the tables were turned. I also read that we are gonna see someone in a Dharma uniform we wouldnt expect.
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...I am starting to truly think that once upon a time it played nice with DHARMA and then rejected them (most likely a science vs. faith issue, an early theme of the show). It embraced Ben and his 'Others' for whatever reason. Now THEY are being rejected (the whole good vs. bad that they seem obsessed with?) in favor of the survivors of 815 in general and Locke in specific (I suspect Sun is NOT in any danger, the island likes her now, perhaps). I bet there is a pattern of keepers/inhabitants getting side tracked with petty/personal/small-picture issues only to be replaced with new folk in the search for those most worthy? It seems to have happened at least twice.
Maybe... -
Thanks again for the recap. I might actually watch this episode.
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and/or alternate dimensions, and I'm the one making assumptions.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned but on next week's cast list there is a actor playing te role of Roger Linus. One can assume that Roger Linus is Roger Workman the man found dead in the dharma mini van. So seems like Ben's dad was a "low man on the totem pole" in terms of Dharma. Perhaps he died some awful death? Causing the rebellion?
I'm also starting to think richard is jacob, since he is apparently "blended in with the crowd." -
Alternate dememtions and whatnot are not for the general public, which is more important to the producers than the comic nerds. Sorry to say.
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I still don't think Ben is trying to get rid of or embarrass Locke. I think it is just more classic Ben manipulation. I think his plan all along was for Locke to manipulate Sawyer into killing Cooper for him. Locke is just as much a murderer as Sawyer now, even though he didn't choke him. Locke has now proven that he can be as manipulative and coldhearted as any of the Others and still feel justified like they do. Yeah, Cooper had it coming, but so did Kate's dad, and Locke and the Others look down on her for killing him the same way they act like Charlie's bad for killing Ethan after he tried to kill Charlie. The Others do all this horrible stuff, but still keep saying they're the good guys. I don't care what their motives are, if the writers are still considering making the Others the good guys I will be pissed. Who the hell brings little kids to watch an execution? They are some crazy evil cult. And I think Richard giving Locke the file on Sawyer was what Ben wanted. I think this was all Locke's initiation ceremony. I could be wrong about Ben's motives toward Locke, but one thing's for certain--Ben and the Others are some eeeeviilllll bastards. And Locke can't be trusted anymore. As someone said earlier, he's a religious fanatic and worships the island. He'll sacrifice anyone else's life to find out more about it.
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Remember John told Ben he was cheating by living in houses and using electricity, that's why he wasn't recovering faster. He starts hangin out with John and they hang out in the tents sleep on the island and bam! He starts to heal.
I think John's the ultimate hero he's gonna one up Ben, that sub ain't blown up. -
And I think everyone will show their hands at the end of the season.
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"Danielle's trip to the Black Rock is to retrieve leftover dynamite for personal reasons which will factor into one of the bloodiest encounters in the finale... to blow Ben to smithereens... and she will be successful.
Can you figure out who's behind the curtain before next week? Turn around." -
It has been proven that there is no time dilation. An internal clock (Juliet's count of how long she has been on the island) is synchronised with an external clock (the time difference between 2001, when Juliet came to the island, and 2004, when the plane crashed). They both agree with each other, so time on the island passes at the same rate as time off the island.
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The rate may be the same, but that doesn't mean that the year is...if the island is in the future.
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...Yogsoggoth is conspicuously absent. Probably because he "wants to love this show" so much.
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1) This is my last chance to hope that Patrick McGoohan has been signed to play Jacob. It'd be so friggin' awesome, especially if he was directly in control of Rover...I mean smokey.
2) Speaking of smokey, has anyone noticed...have they ever had a file on anyone that hasn't come into contact with ol' smokey? Could we surmise that the scanning/mindreading that smokey does is what provides the data for these files, since information like Sawyer shooting the wrong guy is hardly something easily or conventionally obtainable?
3) Since Ben and manipulation are so often paired in statements, can we save some effort and combine them into "Benipulation"? For example, "Locke was a real bastard last night with how he benipulated Sawyer." -
Another thing I didn't think about was the implications of Ben letting John take the tape recorder. We're supposed to assume that Ben didn't authorize John taking it, but maybe it's one of his ploys. And I'm not thinking about it from the angle of the survivors or John, but Juliet. Maybe he wants to put her in the shit real bad by making sure the campers hear the tape.As for the plane crash, I suppose if we keep it up we'll just be going back and forward, back and forward. I just don't think it would have been built up so much as a big reveal just to determine that everyone thinks they're dead. OF COURSE everyone thinks they're dead. They were on a plane that disappeared in the middle of the ocean. Fair enough, it could indeed be a red herring, but if it is, then it's a pretty stupid move to make a climactic reveal like that near the end of a season and it turns out that it's of no real significance. If it was just a faked crash, I don't see how it would be significant.
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Answer? Not much.If there is sex in Hell, I'm goin'.
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While it may not be a faked crash, a faked crash is significant because it indicates that for some reasone someone with a lot of power/money/influence wants there to be no search for these people or that might lead to the island. Not saying that's the right answer, just how it would be significant if it is.
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Why does it not surprise me that a guy who destroyed his planet because he was busy making out with his Marilyn MonroBot would say "If there is sex in Hell, I'm goin'"? You need to pay more attention to the Space Pope.
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Okay, in terms of loading up a plane with bodies and sinking it. Where would they get bodies? First off, the only examination being by robot cams, they wouldn't even have to be real bodies, just something that would look believable to remote cameras. But lets say they are real bodies. Well, the folks we are talking about run an elaborate medical operation, and not for sure even a legal one. You think they'd have trouble getting enough cadavers to stock up a plane with. Since it was a plane crash where the vicitms might be burned and wrecked they don't even have to be close matches. I mean, real world, movies like Poltergeist end up being given real bodies to use as props, doesn't seem like a big corporation would have problems buying some stiffs. Or given how they may operate producing a number on their own.
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That's what the "magic box" is, a way to manipulate probabilities, quantum reality. Ask yourselves: how did the Others know that Locke's dad was Sawyer's "Sawyer?" I've been assuming that they know everyone's past by reading their memories, similar to the smoke monster reading Eko's memories duing his encounter. But this information wasn't in ANY of their memories. Locke didn't know his father's connection to Sawyer. Sawyer certainly didn't know it. And Locke's dad didn't know it. We're talking about almost God-like knowledge, here. The only explanation I can think of is that the others had read the memories of all three men, and put 2+2 together themselves. BUT, how did they know to read the memories of these three particular men? It's so unlikely, so improbable, that some kind of artificial manipulation of probablity must be involved. This explains all the coincidences, all the interconnections between these seemingly unrelated characters. That's why the "magic box" can give you whatever you want . . . no matter how improbable.
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I hate it when I look back and it looks like I've just been engaging in a pissing contest. Oh well, we've all been Benipulated (thanks Banky) by Cuse, et al.
The significance of any Red Herring, is, of course, that it has no real significance but draws you away from something else that is really important. Again, my thinking (as well as many others) is that any intensive, ongoing search for 815 or survivors might draw unwanted attention to the area of the Island. A report that there conclusively were no survivors neatly fits the purposes of any powers that be that want to protect/keep the island for themselves. Thus, I take Naomi's reveal to be a faux climax (which I'm sure most of us talkbackers have experienced from their significant others), with the real earth shakers coming at the end of the season. -
I wouldn't be happy if there's a reveal at some point in the show that someone actually went out and got an empty plane and filled it with dead bodies to deter a search party that would never even find the island in a million years without the exact coordinations. If they just faked the imaging to fool the world, it would indeed be more plausible, but there's no evidence that this is the case yet. I haven't offered an explanation myself but I hope the show has a better one than those currently being offered. And yeah, Fount, that would be the motive for putting out a fake crash site, but given Ben's willingness to let Michael go and his confidence that "you won't be able to come back anyway, even if you wanted to", it's a long way to go, just to be sure, when you already seem to have pretty strong assurance that your island is safe.
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I was thinking the same thing about smokey and the info on people. Ben knows things he couldn't know. Maybe those that think smokey is J.A.C.O.B. (the acronym is me) are correct.
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Um, yeah, you're making assumptions. That's cool. Just recognise, ya dig? Anything I've said about divergent timelines was pure speculation, and admitedly so... You on the other hand seemed to be ruling out the found-plane story for certain, as DEFINITELY untrue, on the basis of... yes, an assumption that the plane lost power at cruising altitude and hit the water at near-full velocity.Just saying that's an assumption. If I wanted to be all macho and shit, I'd have phrased that differently: I'd have said "wow, you sure picked that 'fact' out of your ass". But I don't roll that way. Just saying: you overlooked the possibility of a relatively low-velocity attempt at a splashdown. Peace out.
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So, you're saying that the Island has an Improbability Drive?
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Is going to give me nightmares. That episode was just grotesque. I loved it.
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[James] Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.
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How does that work- giving birth in hell?
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1. Regarding Michael, I have my doubts about whether he really got to go home. As I have said in previous talkbacks, he was told he'd reach "help" and Ben's definition may not have been his.
2. Obviously people can sometimes get to the island if they are in the right area. See Desmond, 815 survivors, etc. So there must be some risk of being revealed. But then again, maybe the island isn't what they want hidden. All I really know is that I don't have any answers.
3. I agree faking the crash by sinking a plane with a bunch of dead bodies to a 4 mile deep trench is absurd. If that is really what happened, I'll be shocked. Faking a report of finding a plane with a bunch of dead bodies in a 4 mile deep trench on the other hand is not so bad. 4 miles down, no one is going to try to recover it, at lest not right away.
4. I don't know that the crash has been faked. I don't know that I like the theory of the fake crash, but I haven't come up with a good theory for the news from Naomi other than a fake crash or a complete lie (which Cooper also told). -
It works like dying in hell or reaching hell via sailboat, helicopter, submarine or plane.
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Unless, of course, the time dilation didn't happen until AFTER the sky went violet. Juliet's internal clock hasn't really been referenced since then, has it?
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The dying in hell i could buy... traveling to another circle of hell, etc, but sailboating there? I dunno about that. That and the birth thing leads me to believe that this really isn't some sort of afterlife thing. Supernatural, definitely, but afterlife? Not so much.
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I know the writers only ruled out 'purgatory', but I don't think this is any kind of afterlife.
Narrative logic aside, I'm basing that hunch on how the writers work. Note that Cooper said "don't you know where we are?" and Ben looked shocked, and hustled Locke out of the room, saying that it was too soon for Locke to know. Now, at that point you're thinking "Huh, the writers are teasing us again, hinting at something and then not giving it to us".... but just a little later on in the same ep they are happy to have Cooper tell Locke he thinks they're in Hell.
Now, two things stand out: one, they don't present this as a big shocking reveal, just a very minor one about one character's opinion based on pretty slim evidence. Two, they have him mention the paramedic winking at him as he stuck in an IV - a hint of Dharma operatives being at work here - winking people drugging up folks, and next thing you know they're on the island. Three, and somehow this is the one that really gives me that gut feeling... they make sure Ben isn't around when Cooper says it. Therefore we don't get to see Ben's reaction. When Ben thought Cooper might 'know' the deal about the island, he paniced a little. But if he was there when Cooper said "We're in Hell", the writer's woulda had to have him say "uh, no, we're not". So I reckon that's why they did it like they did.
The real reveal here was from Ben's reaction, which indicates that 'where we are' is a lot more interesting than just 'an island in the Pacific'. But it's not the afterlife. -
The producers already stated that it was not hell nor limbo or another astral plane or hurley's imagination.
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Dharma paid to flatten Julia's husband with a bus, so they can bankroll a fake plane to pose as Oceanic 815 and a bunch of ringer corpses that can never be identified. Dharma wants their secret to stay secret and they can afford to do so. This way, no one's looking (if you don't count Penny). And how can Jack's dad be dead? His body was never found, he's certainly 'dharma material', and he's already been linked to 4 different characters. Jack saw his dad in season one, then everyone started seeing shit after. I think Jack's dad was really out there on the beach, watching him. They faked his death, too. Dharma bastards. It's far too early to reveal the truth, so if the hell concept has been revealed, it's obviously not right. Spooky, but not right. What I want to know is what the French chic's about to do with an entire crate of dynamite. Best line of last season: You've got some...Arzt on you.
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There to give birth, so... Maybe it IS hell?
Thing is, I feel like this island = hell thing has already been referenced by characters in the show, hasn't it? That's sort of an unofficial debunk in my opinion. When characters suggest something is going on, it's almost never correct. -
HedonismBot doesn't recognize the Space Pope.The Hypno-Toad told me so.
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I don't know if the only way to leave the island is by sub. If so then Ben was definitely lying to Michael(no surprise there), but also doesn't make too much sense out of his wanting Desmond's yacht so bad. Unless he just didn't want the losties using it to find the isle of the bear cages. But if they can leave by boat, what happened to that big ship they were all on when the Others left prison island for the village on regular island? Could this be the ship Naomi's talking about? I suspected she's an other and if she gets the losties to believe rescuers are coming on a big ship, then the Others can use that ship for an attack and the beach dwellers will welcome them with open arms rather than try to fight them off. Attack by land and by sea! The 815'ers are screwed!!! Of course Naomi could actually be who she says she is, but given this show's history I doubt it. I can't wait to find out, though.
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I think this show is more low sci-fi than it is supernatural, so I don't think there is any mind-reading, time dilation, or alternate dimensions. If any of those things turn out to be a facor, I would be really disappointed. I think all the strange phenomena of the island are made more interesting because they *seem* magical or supernatural, but they're like magic tricks: there *is* a logical and sound explanation.
To suddenly start pulling out wierd-o stuff like time dilation and alternate universes just wouldn't ring true with the spirit of the show, which has always been about finding all the puzzle pieces, and putting them together to solve the mysteries. -
Because he was pronounced dead in sydney? Also I believe he was autopsied on (they knew what killed him, which could have been a guess but...). The writers have also said it. He's dead. Anyway, if you look back at episode where Jack sees his father, you'll see that the vision behaved alot like ALOT of the visions on this island: It tried to kill Jack. It led him straight off of a cliff, and had locke not been there to save him, that would have been it for him. Other visions that have led people to their deaths? Walt to shannon. Yemi to Eko... Hurley's dave tried repeatedly to get Hurley to throw himself off a cliff. Whatever was causing those visions, caused Christian Shepard to appear on the island. The man is dead.
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wouldn't work with the show, but the fact that desmond is confirmed to have gone back in time leads me to believe time dilation may be a factor somewhere in there. Personally, I like the more mystical elements of the show- the whispers, the ancient ruins, the great power source in the island - than I do the sci-fi bits (not that i dislike those at all, though)
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...And I'm not using the big IF just to work out my shift key... Then it is NOT Hell in any tradiotional or conventional sense of the concept. I would not think that needed to be said, but as certain assumptions are being applied to Hell (which is a familiar enough concept in the western world that, I suppose, it is to be expected) that may have no relevance what-so-ever. To be 'Hell', all it has to be is a place where the guilty are punished of their sins (and there is a lot of broad/relative terminology there). It need not be where God banished Lucifer or whatever. It could be created artificially (for you scince-y folk) or a mystical convergence that defies organized religous ideals. My point is, this show is so freaking metaphorical that being Hell does not impose any rules but one: Punishment
Maybe... -
The producers have said that Lost's story will mostly be catagorized as a pseudoscience like Michael Criton books.
Sort of in the way that we'll be able to look back and think "ah... I guess that COULD happen" -
You killed my father...Prepare to die.
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While I'm not expecting stuff like spaceships and aliens, the fact of time-travel has been established. That increases the scope for alt-universes, time dilation, etc.
Though bear in mind that time dilation seems very unlikely, due to Juliet saying she's been there three years just before the 815 crashes. That fits with her 2001 leaving time and the Losties 2004 crashing time, so no dilation occured. True, all the stuff the Others show people on the monitors can't be trusted, and that Sat phone looked pretty advanced... but that Juliet quote just cuts off the possibility for me. -
...maybe I'm not with Novaman at all. But I appreciate his considered opinion, anyway! :-D
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SUN: Do you think all this -- all that we've been through -- do you think we're being punished?
SHANNON: Punished for what?
SUN: Things we did before -- the secrets we kept, the lies we told.
SHANNON: Who do you think is punishing us?
SUN: Fate. -
- We'll find out that "Ben Linus", along with Richard Alpert and Jacob, were once workers for DHARMA who also doubled as human test subjects for various DHARMA projects on the island.
- We'll see the overthrow of DHARMA scientists by the workers led by Jacob, who was the instigator of the revolution and the saviour of Ben. Unfortunately, Jacob was unable to save Ben's family which we'll see.
- We'll come to understand that the mysterious (this name is a spoiler until it is told to us in an ep) wasn't the only traveler on the expedition flight to the island (hint: a male was with her who'll wash ashore later), but is in fact a spy of the DHARMA Initiative who's come to investigate exactly what happened on the island.
- The triggers for her visit were the meltdown of the Swan Station and the loss of contact with the Flame Station. A series of "secure" codes had to be input from the Flame to give DHARMA the green light that everything was fine, and to continue the food drops the same way the numbers had to be input in the Swan. The Others (hostiles) were successful keeping up appearances with Mikhail's help until Locke destroyed it.
- Cerberus, aka "The Smoke Monster" was a DHARMA experiment in both nanotechnology and neural networking which was used to guard the perimeter of various stations intuitively, but was damaged during the purge of DHARMA controllers, It has since gone rogue and become self aware.
- The "Others" as we've come to know and love (or hate) are truly the good guys who gained their own freedom and were actively attempting to reverse the effects of experiments performed on them by DHARMA, and the effects of the island on unprotected humans until Flight 815 interrupted them.
- Ben confides in Locke that they were basically slaves to DHARMA and they must keep up the ruse that DHARMA is still in control or they will all die from a common enemy. Jacob is the head "inmate" who orchestrated the revolution, and who remains hidden in plain sight but is still the one they must answer to.
- We find out that Penelope Widmore has been a member of DHARMA all along, and the station in Antarctica is run by DHARMA. Desmond has a vision of Penelope which is frightening and reveals new, truthful memories about how they really met at the monastery.
- Ben dies in the finale along with a few Others, as does Kate and Sayid. Sawyer and most of the Losties blame Jack and Juliet for Kate and Sayid's deaths due to his plan. Jack is forced to go with the surviving Others, and we see Tom by his side as he protects his new leader. From the sky we see images of the island as if from the viewpoint of a coming aircraft. It seems DHARMA has sent someone (or something) to the island and it's not nice. -
I just shit my pants.
I don't understand why they're killing Sayid though. He never found Nadia. :-( -
You seem to have cut and pasted that from the IMDB. It's speculation, not actual spoilers. Some of it is right, some guesswork. Some just wrong. IMDB = not very reliable, to say the least.
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Maybe juliet doesn't KNOW time is dilating? She doesn't seem to know everything that's going on here. Why is her personal count suddenly the world clock or something?
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Wasn't the boat Jack and the others were on just the boat (Elizabeth) they stole from the losties? Also, the characters who just "Go" to the island, like Desmond, the drug runners, the plane, Rousseau etc are all exceptions to the rule that you can't just go to the island. This is something to do with the fact that they're all connected (ok, Rouseeau isn't but she might be connected to the others or Dharma) and this hasn't been explained yet. The only character who actually got to the island without being attracted there for whatever reason is Naomi, and she could only do that because she had the coordinations. All the others, for all we know, have been drawn there for the purposes of those already there, just like Cooper'Sawyer was.
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Hah, I forgot about Adams already doing that (I haven't read it since the '80s). I'm just grasping for some kind of explanation of how they know of connections between people that those people don't know themselves. And there is no public record. Maybe their memories are simply implanted?
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I really hate people who POST SPOILERS IN THE SUBJECT LINES!!!
I mean come on people. -
This week's podcast joked that they were probably drunk when they said that pseudo-scientific explanations could be applied to everything on the show. I don't think we're going to be getting alien technology or angels or anything like that, though so don't worry.
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Pretty sure I haven't found this one anywhere else yet.
Roger's family problems aren't just that his son is Ben. His *killer* is Ben. -
to kill Roger...WHY is the big question.
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That's not really a spoiler. You see him get shot in the first 5 minutes and no one talks about it after. I knew he was dead. I'm surprised the ending surprised so many people.
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Reverse psychology, reverse revere psychology, reverse reverse reverse psychology... etc. Ben's "mastermind" abilities are basically equivalent to those of the Sicilian in the Princess Bride. I don't know why Locke or anyone else is having trouble seeing through him.
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On what seems to be the day before the plane crash, she says to Goodwin that she's been there three years. So it feels like three years to her. Sun up, sun down, just over a thousand times. I don't see how she can be wrong on that. She left the US in late 2001 (we saw this).
So now the question is, how much time has passed in the real world, while Juliet has experienced 'three years'?
Answer: Three years have passed in the 'real world'. The 815 took off in late 2004.
So the Island and the rest of the world are in syn, time-wise..... I can't see any scope for dilation here. -
the characters that are emotionally connected after being through the plane crash and havin to survive on the island and all that e.g. Kate lurvs Jack and he's treatin her like shit now, sohe better have a good fuckin reason for it so she can go all "Oh Jack, you really weren't goign to leave us here... "
and so on and so forth...
Go on now, as you were... -
Ooooh, I hadn't heard that about Ben killing Roger. Where is that on the scale of hard fact to rampant guesswork?
So he causes Roger to crash his VW van? Huh.
Well, I guess we'll see next week. -
I just think they're spending an awful lot of time building this guy up for nothing. Maybe he is dead, but if he's not, the writers won't confirm it until we see it with out own eyes. If he does turn out to be the LaShade/Cobra character, I won't be surprised.
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I was hoping Locke would nut up and shiv bugeyes AND the old man.
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They are not killing Sayid! They already took Eko from me!
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The were members of the DHARMA Initiative and have been brainwashed by the Others.
The island is also near the North Poll. -
Midway through Season 4 he flies them all off the island. The Season finale is Locke taking his kids to build a casino there. Spoilers.
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Is that before or after SD-6 shows up on the island and uses the Rambaldi artifacts to build a time machine?
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I'm saying that SINCE THE SKY TURNED PURPLE, time has moved differently. Before that I imagine everything was fine. Remember, the sky only went purple 3 weeks ago island time. I was never saying the time was always weird on the island.
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Sawyer's backstory is done, more or less. Not that I want him to die, but him dying before sayid would be silly. Also, that list of spoilers there seems to have left out a major character that all signs are saying WILL die this season. Which leads me to believe they're wrong. (I hope!)
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Dying before him would be silly.
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That her helicopter couldn't go near the island? Is it being suggested that she faked her wreck and put herself into harms way by parachuting into the jungle when she could have just landed on the beach? That doesn't make sense. If you were going to fake a crash, why not just do it so you could parachute onto the beach? I think she's telling the truth.
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They're all either hatin' on or flat out killing their dads on this show.
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"Oh, Hi. I have my best friend locked in a room with an empty gun and no knife, so he can kill my father. What you up to?" "Oh, nuthin'. Just stopped by to grab a case of dynamite." "Oh. Okay then. Nice seein' you." "Yeah. Later." *** The giant Homer Simpson foot is NOT a three-toed tree sloth. Thre toed tree sloths only have three toes, hence the name. On the cartoon show Homer (and all the Simpsons characters) have four fingers and three toes. In real life, Homer was a poet who wrote The Illiad and the Odyssey, about people taking a journey to an island! Coincidence? You bet. Proving that The Thing from the Fantastic Four is a tree sloth. *** I had read that the writers of the show had formally denied the popular season one Purgatory theory, but I'd never heard that they'd denied the people on the island were in Hell. Since you folks clearly spend more time studying this show than I do, I'll take your word for it. Still, it would be such a sinfully simple and elegant solution compared to all the time traveling alternate dimension nanobot cloud monster stuff that gets tossed around here. In the future more TV shows will have dedicated fan conferences discussing theories of what's happening so the viewers actually write the shows. And then groups like votefortheworst dot com will swoop in and every popular cult series will have the worst possible ending. *** Everyone talks about how Season One was classic and Season Two jumped the shark
[ http://tinyurl.com/g2uoh ] with a sophomore slump. Does anyone appreciate how much more attractive Season Three is than season one, now that every single character isn't walking around with scars, scrapes, scabs, bruises, open cuts and bee stings on their faces. For "classic television", Season One could be damn ugly sometimes. *** Here's a super-bad idea: do an "AfterMASH" style sequel spin-off following the lives of the characters after they get off the island. Call it "...and Found". -
"don't tell me what I can't do, John..."
oh, and loved the scene where solid snake chocked that bastard to death, that was a nice little MGS teh Movie teaser... -
...I would just like to say that I consider this episode to be a 5 star effort.
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apparently, jericho + sweeps = mighty fine TV.
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just who is Richard Alpert? Is he the creepy guy who looks like he's wearing black eyeliner? Thanks.
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that guy. Unless you're thinking of Goth Claire, in which case, no way. She doesn't look like a guy.
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Bali is in Indonesia, north west of Australia. I thought they were flying to the US. Am I correct? That means they were waaayyyyy off course. Richard is the creepy guy who gives Locke the file on Sawyer.
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Also, I'll bet that Rouseau is starting to think that crap hole island is starting to get a bit crowded. The look on her face as she entered the Black Rock was priceless.
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I heard that Ben shoots Locke point blank in the chest wherein he falls into a mass D.H.A.R.M.A. grave next week, but that's just what I heard.
************************************* -
Best of the season, and maybe one of the series' best
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I pointed that out earlier in the talkback but no one responded. Bali is NW of AUS, the plane took off from Sydney heading NE towards LA. At some point it lost communication with air traffic control and turned back towards Fiji, which is also NE of AUS. So what Naomi is saying doesn't make sense, at least to me. The area between Bali and Fiji is sort of populated with lots of islands, large and small. It just doesn't make sense that the plane would be anywhere near Bali.
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Maybe the Losties are all just trapped in a Mitch Albom novel. That would certainly explain why they are all related to each other in some way.
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Is that right? haha Guess I usually post and run...
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Black boxes are always a big issue with plane crashes. I think we'll see the 815 black box play a big reveal. After it's recovered I think it will reveal that the plane on the island is in fact NOT 815. Say the Losties get on 815, DHARMA knocks them out with gas through the vents, lands the plane, switcheroo, and 815 ends up in the bottom of the ocean. The plane that cracks up over the Others camp doesn't contain people. They are all on the island placed about nicely. Helps explain Jack ending up way off from the rest of the crew.
But hey, why, if someone went to all that trouble, wouldn't they cover the blackbox as well? OW! my head hurts.... -
The Heart of Gold crash landed on a remote tropical island in the distant past, where the improbability drive has been working overtime ever since. Zaphod shed his extra head and took to calling himself Jacob to blend in. Marvin the paranoid android has been permanently changed into an angry (but depressed) black cloud by the improbability engine, and still can't seem to get anyone to understand him. Slartibarfast continues his work, and was particularly fond of his giant foot statue until Arthur pointed out that earthlings generally have five, not four, toes. And the Heart of Gold's rescue beacon continues to transmit a non-sensical sequence of numbers, the only significance of which is that it contains the Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything as revealed by Deep Thought: 42
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I guess that's possible, but I see no real evidence for it... and Penny seems to have found them a reasonable length of time after the signal was detected (which was simultaneous with the purple sky). About 20 days to arrange a team, send them out, and have Naomi parachute down? Sounds about right to me...
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I believe early on, possibly in the pilot episode, someone mentioned that the plane had turned around and was trying to get back to Australia. It could even have been Cindy the stewardess during the Tailies saga in the second season. Still, Bali is a long way in the opposite direction they were traveling, and lots of inhabited land masses in the area with possible emergency landing sites (NW Austrlia, New Guinea, Malaysia, etc.) they would have flown over or near. For what its worth, I posted a theory earlier involving the NUMBERS/ATLANTIS/GEOPATHIC ENERGY LINES spurred by Naomi's mention of Bali - in two parts posted May 2 @ 8:45 & 8:59 p.m.
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She says so in the pilot episode. She was conscious through the whole thing. Lots of people forget this when making their theories.
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God damn it, I forgot about Hitchhikers! NICE CATCH!! Talk about homage!
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That's practically the whole story. What else does LU&E say?
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don't know how long Naomi had been looking. Still, when we do see Walt again, and he's older, I do wonder what explanation will be given. I've always wondered if the others could have been growth hormoning him. Trying to get him to reach puberty to get the most out of his powers. Who knows, though.
I also think that, because of the failsafe sending desmond back in time, you have to wonder if the purple light didn't have some time-related consequence to it. -
Timequake by Kurt Vonnegut
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I've never been fond of Jack but I always thought he was a fair character, but this episode proves what a dick he is. Kate goes above her better judgement and spills the beans to Jack in front of Juliet, then he reveals he and Juliet have a secret of their own but he won't share. Not cool, Jack. Not cool.
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Vote for the best chain-related garroting this TV season of 2007! I'd say Bauer's kill ranks a bit higher, only because he strung the motherfucker up after killing, like, 15 guys with a single handgun.
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Josh Halloway must play Green Arrow. This is my prayer. He's already an unshaven smart-ass action hero stranded on an island. Someone get that fucker a longbow!
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that she wasn't alone, was she referring to the boat 80 nautical miles of the coast of the island? or did she mean that someone else jumped out of the helicopter with a parachute?
I want to know what's up with Rose and Bernard. And, What was Sayid digging for? And, are the survivors of flight 815 ever going to find out they buried the two diamond thieves alive? Is Locke going to have something to do with Sun surviving her pregnancy? Is Kate pregnant? Is Libby still alive, and Will Hugo ever figure out why she seemed so familiar? Does Hugo own the Company Locke worked for? What Happened to the body of Jack's Father? Will Charlie play his guitar some more on screen please? I want to know more about the Sharks. Ok, we've seen an old gallion, a VW Bus, a jet airliner, a downed drug smuggling plane, a submarine, a wooden raft, a sailboat, (a helicopter maybe)... I think we need a bicycle, and a train to show up on the island to complete the set, oooooh oooh and a dune buggy! -
to bring Bob Denver to the Island?
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I don't have a significant other and haven't gotten laid in eons, so, no, I'm not down with the faux climax you mentioned. Pour salt on the wound, why don't you?
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brink back Bai Ling...
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Sometimes when a man and a woman really love each other and they get married they go somewhere private where they can be alone and then the man's thing gets stiff and he puts it in the ladies special frisky place and rubs it in and out until the seeds come out and that's how babies are made. Except on the island, where all the ladies who make babies die. But don't worry about Kate, because sometimes when the man doesn't respect the lady he puts the seeds in her mouth instead and that's what James does. Uh-huh. And sometimes ladies put their mouth in another ladies special frisky place, which is what Bai Ling does, because she's a Bai-sexual cunni-Ling-guist. nttawwt. And Juliet, who knows what happens when ladies have babies on the island, lets Jack put it in her bottom. That's their secret.
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Can you please pass me some of what you've been smoking... Pease!!!
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"Ok, we've seen an old galleon, a VW micro-Bus, a jet airliner, a downed drug smuggling plane, a submarine, a wooden raft, a sailboat, (a helicopter maybe)... I think we need a bicycle, and a train... and a dune buggy!" ***** And they can use beach sand to make a skateboard arena and Charlie can have a skateboard and Claire can get some in-line skates. Locke burned his wheelchair but if the metal wheels didn't burn maybe Jack can make himself a unicycle. You forgot "Henry Gale's" hot air balloon. And didn't the others have some kind of tug-boat when they kidnapped Walt - the one Walt and Michael sailed away on? And if Kate has a toy airplane James should get a slot car set-up. Besides, Kate also has a pony. And Vincent could get a little Ben-Hur gladiator cart to tow Roger Work-man's arm around in. also a big pogo stick for the giant foot. And Desmond should remember he has a jet-ski on his racing skiff. And didn't that plane have any inflatable rubber rafts? or are you just supposed to float around hanging on to your seat cushions? Also, Sun should have a kite which inspires Jin to make a hang-glider. Then Sayid could take the jet engine that sucks people in from the pilot episode and build his own SHIELD helicarrier. Also, Juliet fills some of James' condoms with a tank of Dharma helium and Aaron floats away. And Stteve should learn to swing from tree to tree like Tarzan, but on trapezes. Also, Hurley on a moped. Then Penny arrives in a subterranean tunneler. Give Ben an electric wheelchair and put it on a treadmill they find down in a hatch so he can go really fast without getting anywhere. Also, I want to see Claire using a thigh-master. It's not actually a vehicle, I just want to see it. As ar as that goes, James should find Kate a vibrator. And the sub-aquatic station should stand up on legs like a War of the Worlds tripod and wade around. And Cindy should have a snorkel and Richard Alpert should have the jet-pack from Thunderball. And please Santa, give mr. Friendly a slip-and-slice. Amen.
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I want to see the losties do more fun activities. I don't think we've seen them golf in ages, and there has to be a hacky sack, or a soccer/football somewhere.. and yeah I could totally see Sun with a Kite and Jin with a Hang Glider. And For the Love of God, why hasn't anyone repaired the Hot Air Baloon to check out the island from above? And How Many Islands are there, Just cause we've only seen two, doesn't mean there aren't any more. And WE ALL KNOW at some point a Volcano has to ERRUPT, it's inevitable....inevitable... TRUST ME.
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I know they aren't stuck in a Mitch Albom novel because a couple things would have happened differently: (1) We wouldn't be able to get people like Oprah to shut up about the show. (2) I would have stopped watching after about 5 minutes.
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With all of the parental hate on this show, perhaps the four toed statue is Oedipus...or not.
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I'm not sure that is Jack and Juliet's secret. Only Carnivale has the guts to have that as part of the show. (just ask Jonesy)
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Your theory actually makes so much sense it's kinda spooky!
Anyhoo, just finished a three hour trawl of all those talkbacks above and nobody mentioned what I thought seemed kinda obvious - Jack and Juliet are planning to double-cross Ben and get the hell off the island BUT Sawyer's gonna come back with evidence Juliet's working at least the other side (if not both) and then it's on!
Also, did Naomi say something to Sayid like "remind me not to rescue you" - that suggests to me like she might be a fellow temponaught (like Desmond) who maybe not this time but next time is going to let Sayid die...
One last thing. People have theorised that maybe Mr Widmore is boss of Dharma, and I know the producers reckon we haven't seen him yet, but what if he's JACOB?? You know, when he's not making sure Betty keeps his son in line and Desmond is nowhere near his daughter... -
FYI - I'm married, and it really doesn't sound that much different from your situation...
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Dude, you even nailed Adams' style. Nicely done.
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when they lost communication with the ground, the pilot said they started to turn back and were going to land in Fiji, which is still NE of Australia and still far from Bali. Maybe I'm just making too much of this and it's a simple error on the part of the writers.
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This theory assumes that Ben leads because he is seen as 'special'.
The kidnap of Walt may have been a ruse by Ben on two fronts. His cancer raised questions about Ben's worthiness. Walt then shows up and since the Others seem to know EVERYthing they know he can conjur birds and bears and such. BAM! Is he the new guru? Ben may be genuinely interested, but he has his eye on John Locke. Ben uses the kidnap of Walt to spark a rescue by Michael to ensnare Jack AND distract the dissenters like Aplert (as they already collect kids, it fits nicely to exicting plans). In the process, Ben gets to spend sometime with Locke and assess Locke's level of threat to Ben's position. Is Locke the one? Can ben control him? Whatever, whatever, whatever? Now this theory still lacks many details to get the specifics nailed down, but in the end... Ben has surgeon Jack, special-boy Walt is removed from the picture (perhaps his powers could not be 'proven' so Ben could justify his release), and Ben has (he thinks) John Locke figured out enough to manipulate him. Locke is bigger trouble for Ben. While Walt's powers are somewhat abstract (true witnesses are either not on the island or dead), Locke is a known former cripple among the Others (Alpert, at least, has file access and Cindy the Stewardess probably knew from the plane). That and Locke doesn't want to leave. He needs to be dealt with, in Ben's view.
Thus, I conclude, that Ben was only ever mildly curious about Walt (if even that) but used him to occupy his own people and ensnare a surgeon and scope out his potential rival.
Maybe -
Excellent work. Very funny.
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Hey guys, this may have been said already, but I suspect this isn't a big reveal (unfortuantely, given its setup). What about this idea: Jack is the only one who knows about the "sky turning purple" effect and his reason for saying "not yet" is that he wants to punish the others for not trusting him. He wants them to fuck around with the radio, have all sorts of hope, so he can dash it and note that if they had told him, he could have given them the head's up in the first place. Petty, yes, but also a reasonable explanation for that exchange.
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OH!!! Duh! Juliet is trying to arrange some 4some/swinger action and Jack just aint ready for that yet. Juliet's goal is to get Kate's "sample" but why not have some fun in the process, right? She may have, at one time, thought about that tactic with Sun & Jin, but now there is no need (and she might have expected that the Kwons probably wouldn't be 'that kind of couple').
Maybe... Probably not -
From everything we've seen about Juliet, she would not have waited for approval from Jack to tell something like "the purple sky phenomenon made it where the radio won't work." She would have just said it. (Besides, didn't Mikhail tell Kate, Locke and Sayid about it anyway?) Juliet is not one to wait for a man's approval just to wait for his approval. This is something larger, or at least more secret.
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Perhaps Juliet is a mole for the Others, but is double crossing them (as many people assume) and cannot reveal it to the general population because the Others already have a mole in the group on the beach, and J & J must be ready to expose that person first.
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I couldn't remember what Mikhail said about it. I'm not sure the male/female thing plays at all into it with Juliet. I hope you are right and that it is larger/more secret. I also happen to like Juliet quite a bit so I hope however things, she survives. However, as I have noted before, considering that "Carrie" is her book of the month, I am not holding my breath.
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What seems fairly obvious to me is that Ben sent Juliet to the beach to die, knowing full well that somehow word would get back (be it through Locke or some other suspicious castaway) that she was a spy. Is there another mole? I'm not sure.
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People tend not to posit Mr. Widmore as Jacob because, like you say, he's probably head of Dharma, and Dharma and the Others seem to be in opposition. We will see this next week.
As for Jack/Juliet, they are each of them at least double-agents, but are they triple agents? And no, I don't think they trust each other, though they pretend to. I think Jack is ultimately with the 815ers, and Juliet.... is just out for herself. -
...I think Juliet is out for herself, but I think Jack understands Juliet and more to the point understands where she is coming from. In true Jack fashion, I think he is trying to save her, give her a chance to do the right thing and pull herself back from the edge of the abyss. I also think there's a lot about who she is that Jack sees in himself so there's a self-redemption thing going o nthere as well.
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Jack and Juliet know that Kate is Pregnant.... We should tell her that she's pregnant
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You think any of the island's chronic masturbatuers already figured it out?
Eeewwwww!!! -
but were too embarassed to say! I mean really, how would you bring that up with your fellow castaways? "Uh, hey guys... so I was just in the jungle, and..."
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Herc is hitting the pipe hard. This was a four star epsidoe my friend.
Here are some random questions and comments.
First, Hurley is fatter than ever. His neck fat is forcing his face upward more than usual. The sight of his penis must be a distant memory to him by now.
Second, all flashbacks for now on should have that brazilian dude somewhere in the background either walking out of or walking into a bathroom.
Third, Desmond without a beard looks like a Scottish David Strathairn. Seriously did not see that one coming.
Fourth, I like how Sawyer takes a gun with him to piss. That man really wants to defend his cock.
Fifth, I am assuming the Michael / Walt story line is as dead as Mr Eko. That shit is just plain rude.
Oh and last, whenever I see Juliet I can't help but picturing her making out with Angelina Jolie in Gia. Just a side thing there. -
...That Brad and Angelina are "Lost" fans, and everytime Juliet comes on screen Brad either makes a joke or asks if Angie still keeps in touch?
Probably not... -
and also for what i thought was the best episode of the series. NO FUCKING FILLER WHATSOEVER. herc if this is treading water i gotta see your idea of a breast stroke. may i also say: john locke, go fuck your mother, you gutless piece of shit. you might have your precious little destiny secured but you will never be 1% of the man sawyer is.
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didn't see this up there--- i am thinking that when locke's trying to take control from ben ben will be like 'even if you do want to follow john locke, you'll still be stuck here! still no way off the island! he blew up the submarine! is that who you want to follow?' leaving john 'gutless turd' locke to reveal that he actually did not blow it up.
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Beats the filler episodes (Jin&Sun) anyday.
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Everyone I know who watches gets pissed when they start feeding us filler episodes. Not that we can stop watching, but when a pearl like this one comes along, we're all reminded why we watch. Last Wednesday is why I watch this show. Shit like that.
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And I'm sorry Kate, but tits and ass only get you so far. This chick is driving Sawyer and Jack crazy. "I love Jack, no I love Sawyer, no I love Jack, no I love Sawyer"-- make up your fucking mind. Quit playing high school mind games, bitch. Don't you know there's a monster in the jungle?!?
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expect an announcement soon looks like the show is going to go 5 seasons.
which I love, 4 I feel is not enough, 5 seems perfect to me. -
I'm sorry to say it, but that show is stupid.
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Just like 1 season is the perfect length for Heroes, with it's "oops, blew our load too early" plot structure.
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a feature length motion pictures across theaters in america.... That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Can't believe more people aren't discussing what Danielle's off to do with the dynamite. Hmm... what's around to blow up? Camp? Not specific enough, guns would be better. Sub? Already blown. Smokey's Invisible Fence? Nah, she can just shimmy over it, Kate-style. Unless it's to blow the fence to let someone else through. Or something...
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her daughter
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Actually I was kinda wondering about Rousseau - like where was she when gas was flowing and people were leaving? Does Alex know about her yet? Also, if Ben is really Alex's dad, and women who conceive on the island die by the time they start to get fat, exactly where did these two do the wild thing?
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I say Danielle is looking to blow the fence to let Smokey through to tear up some Other ass.
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Hey Maniaq, my impression was that when Rousseau first captured Ben she knew he was an Other but that was about it.
How can Ben be Alex's dad if he was born on the island and women die when they conceive on the island? (did Ben ever say if he left the island?). Hopefully the Ben/Rousseau/Alex connection will be explained by the end if this season. -
...How long the 'fertility problem' has been an issue. Given that Ben only pulled an outside expert in (as far as we know) 3 years ago, and Alpert's blase' attitude to the whole thing leads me to think that it's not been going on all that long.
Maybe... -
My prediction is that at the end of the Finale, all of the Losties(minus Locke) will be on the beach (possibly with the rumored split of the Losties: one group led by Jack, and one led by Sawyer). At this time a large boat will appear near shore, and a black man of about 30, and other unknown people will arrive on the beach. The black man, with a serious look on his face, will introduce himself as Walt! At that time an older white woman in her early sixties will emerge from these newcomers, and Desmond, in a state of shock, will say 'Penny'? cue the familiar drum beat L O S T. Yes, I believe that time on the island is moving much slower than the rest of the world. I think that a month on the island(the amount of time since Michael and Walt left the island until Walt's reappearance in the Finale? Maybe?) is equal to around 20 years or so in the "real" world. This explains the slightly advanced cell phone that Naomi carried with her, and Sayid never having seen a phone this advanced. It also explains the helicopter Naomi was on, that didn't quite sound like a normal helicoptor. With these things being from 20-21 or so years in the future, from the perspective of the island, their technology would be noticeabley different yet familiar. Well that's my theory anyway.
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I thought it was obvious that the secret they are keeping from Kate refers to her being pregnant. Here is why: 1) As soon as Juliet and Jack here that there may be a way off the island, Juliet wants to tell Kate, b/c if she leaves the island she may lose the baby or vice versa. 2) This means that Juliet has let Jack in on her plan of testing the woman for potential babies.
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Check this out:
http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2007/05/great-gedanken-experiment-tale-of-time.html
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