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Hiro In The Future!!
HEROES 1.20 & Beyond!!

I am – Hercules!!
Heroes 1.20 FAQ
What’s it called? “String Theory” What does NBC say? “Thrown five years in the future, Hiro (Golden Globe nominee Masi Oka) and Ando (James Kyson Lee) discover that people with extraordinary abilities are not only widely known about -- after the destruction of New York City and the deaths of millions -- but are being registered, imprisoned, hunted and even killed as "terrorists." As the President takes his first step towards a "final solution," the pair get swept up in what could be the "Heroes" final battle and encounter a range of new and darkly familiar faces. If they survive the experience, can they still get back to the present and save the world? Stana Katic, Jimmy Jean-Louis and Zachary Quinto guest star.” What is NBC not telling us? Matt Parkman has turned evil. Nikki and Jessica are merged, Ali Larter tells TV Guide Online. "And we have an episode coming up that's set in the future. There is definitely a winner then." Maybe she’s even the first lady of the United States. What lies beyond tonight’s installment? Invisotext cloaks the spoilage. We’ll learn of Mr. Nakamura’s superpower. We will learn Simone has a superpower, and probably her dad too. We will learn the surprising identity of Claire’s Grandpa Petrelli and the circumstances of his untimely end. The final few episodes will features the returns of George Takai (Kaito Nakamura), Clea DuVall (FBI special agent Audrey Hanson), Tawny Cypress (Simone Devereaux) and Richard Roundtree (Simone’s dad Charles). Sulu and Shaft in the same episode! Can you dig it? From NBC: 1.21 – May 7 - "The Hard Part" AS NATHAN AND HIS FAMILY READY FOR THE ELECTION, MASI AND ANDO FACE THE HARD PART OF SAVING THE WORLD; ERIC ROBERTS AND RENA SOFER GUEST-STAR -- Now knowing what's at stake if they fail in their mission, Hiro (Golden Globe nominee Masi Oka) and Ando's (James Kyson Lee) determination to save the world is put to the test. Committed to the path, Nathan (Adrian Pasdar) takes some surprising steps to guarantee his election. Jessica (Ali Larter) and D.L. (Leonard Roberts) begin to learn how their family fits into Linderman's plans. Thompson (guest star Eric Roberts, "Less Than Perfect") brings someone new into his company's fold. With more and more blood on his hands, Sylar (guest star Zachary Quinto) visits his mom (guest star Ellen Greene). Matthew John Armstrong, Justin Evans, Missy Peregrym, Cristine Rose, Rena Sofer ("24"), Adair Tishler, and Jackson Wurth guest-star. 1.22 – May 14 - "Landslide" AS LINDERMAN ARRIVES, NATHAN CONSIDERS THE COST TO WIN THE ELECTION; MALCOLM MCDOWELL, ERIC ROBERTS AND GEORGE TAKEI GUEST-STAR -- Poised to become a member of Congress and maybe more, Nathan (Adrian Pasdar) considers the cost to those he loves, along with his mother's (guest star Cristine Rose) advice and Linderman's (guest star Malcolm McDowell, "Entourage,""A Clockwork Orange") prophecy. As he prepares to face Sylar (guest star Zachary Quinto) to the death, Hiro (Golden Globe nominee Masi Oka) learns of his linage from his father (guest star George Takei, "Star Trek"). While various "heroes" fatefully arrive in New York City, Peter (Milo Ventimiglia) and Ted (Matthew John Armstrong) attempt to leave the city before the foretold explosion. H.R.G. (Jack Coleman) and Matt (Greg Grunberg) learn the surprising truth behind the tracking system used on people with special abilities. Clea DuVall, Justin Evans, James Kyson Lee, Missy Peregrym, Eric Roberts, Rena Sofer, Adair Tishler and Jackson Wurth guest-star. 1.23 – May 21 - "How To Stop an Exploding Man" HEROES RISE AND FALL IN THE SHOCKING SEASON FINALE WRITTEN BY EXECUTIVE PRODUCER/CREATOR TIM KRING AND DIRECTED BY EXECUTIVE PRODUCER ALLAN ARKUSH -- With Isaac's (Santiago Cabera) horrible predictions all unfolding before them, the everyday people with extraordinary abilities face moments of pain and peril in Kirby Plaza with unflinching heroism, as "Heroes" first volume comes to a close -- and the next surprisingly begins. Clea DuVall, Lisa Lackey, James Kyson Lee, Missy Peregrym, Zachary Quinto, Richard Roundtree, George Takei and Adair Tishler guest-star. 9 p.m. Monday. NBC.





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Readers Talkback
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  • April 30, 2007, 4:13 a.m. CST

    Hmm...X-Men: The Series??

    by Mike_D

    This really does sound like an x-men story line.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:14 a.m. CST

    Can't wait!

    by buffywrestling

    I dig these going to the future gimmicks.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:16 a.m. CST

    must.....resist....invisotext..

    by Volstaff

    Ah Crapola, I looked! On one hand, this episode sounds a lot like "Days Of Future Past", but on the other hand, I guess whatever they come up with will be compared to comics as every ( or nearly every) conventional idea has been done many times over. I love this show,if only the comics movies were written half as good as this.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:28 a.m. CST

    would Hiro make a good Cylon?

    by Boomers_Lips

    i think so.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:33 a.m. CST

    Tim Kring should've done the X-Men movies!

    by Boomers_Lips

    they would've been much more entertaining if he was at the helm of X1, X2, and X3.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:44 a.m. CST

    FUCK YEA!!!

    by Drworm2002

    I love this show. Fuck Lost. It takes a season to answer on fucking question on Lost. Heroes answers a shit load in one episode and open a fuck load more...and I love it.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:48 a.m. CST

    see y'all tonight after the ep airs...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...been spoiled to much beforetimes to be hangin' in here till then...

  • April 30, 2007, 5:02 a.m. CST

    a "final solution" huh?

    by fanboy71

    Sounds like SENTINELS! You can't tell me this dude has never read comics. This is SO obviously based aon the days of future past storyline.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:08 a.m. CST

    Yes...

    by LordEnigma

    These writers like the X-Men. I am waiting for the moment the cajun guy with psconic enenry blast arrives. This will create fan outrage from all sides! Nevertheless, I do like this show, alot. Yeah it's cribbing from all parts of comic continuity. I dont care. Someone had to do something like this for TV. At least these folks seem to be in loved with their story. That counts for something.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:12 a.m. CST

    Kirby Plaza.

    by Pere Ubu

    Sweet.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:20 a.m. CST

    better than "The 4400" by far!

    by Boomers_Lips

    before Heroes came along, The 4400 was the X-Men for tv but this show trumps that one!

  • April 30, 2007, 5:49 a.m. CST

    I try but i cant get into this show

    by LeviDTinker

    i dont know, i just cant get into this series. i try but something about it just doesnt sit right with me. which is funny cause the acting is good and the direction is good. but i just cant get into the story. but hey maybe as long as this is succesfull we might see a few more scripted shows on NBC again next season.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:55 a.m. CST

    Wow!

    by Roboteer

    This series just doesn't have enough characters. If it wasn't for Sylar, each ep would have to be 90 minutes. Naybe it would be easier to do a show on those who don't have super powers? Also, not crazy about Matt's transformation. But minor quibbles. Otherwise, the 'wow' factor keeps on growing. BTW, if there's any theoretical comologists out there, I think String Theory is actually a little dated and inadequate. Those folks are leaning now towards parallel universes and additional dimensions. Thirteen of 'em at last count. (Where's Will Hunting when ya need 'im?) But that's another series (that could be based on the prescient novel TRANSFINITE MAN by Colin Kapp). But I digress. This series is may be the best TV SF since MEN INTO SPACE.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:59 a.m. CST

    They should fight werewolves next season.

    by Uncle Stan

    I might watch that.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:07 a.m. CST

    Watching Heroes is fun; watching LOST feels like work

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    Now, I still keep up with LOST. But honestly it feels like a chore at times to sit through these days. The people behind it telegraph a vibe of smugness and arrogance in regards to its fans and critics. For example, Patchy seems to me as if he's a stand-in for Cuse/Lindoff. He gives us the answers, and a lot of prattling words, but holds back on the important details -- all the while talking with a "FUCK YOU" smirk.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:12 a.m. CST

    Registering Heroes?! Damn you Tony Stark!

    by Boondock Devil

    Your evil iron grip has even touched the Heroesverse. I am looking forward to Dark Parkman.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Tim Kring has never, EVER read a comic....

    by Angry Mean Panda

    And yet every single one of his ideas is directly tracable back to something in comics. Not just characters and powers, but whole plots. If there had been no Watchment or Days of Future Past X-Men arc, there'd be no climax to Season 1 of Heroes. I mean, it's way beyond conincidence and archetypes at this point. Way, way beyond it. But Tim Kring ain't never read a comic, nosiree. Not a single one. Sure.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:14 a.m. CST

    Obviously that should be Watchmen, not Watchment....

    by Angry Mean Panda

    But you know you love Watchment.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:18 a.m. CST

    BSG & Heroes is where its at!

    by Boomers_Lips

    my 2 favorite shows at the moment.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:22 a.m. CST

    Don't forget Marvel's Civil War...

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    Tonight's episode seems to borrow the basic idea of superhero registration in the Marvel universe. Personally, I don't mind this about Heroes; I think it's pretty cool that it's stories are a pastiche of familiar plots and ideas from the comic books. As far as Watchmen is concerned, why has everybody forgotten that its plot point deals with a (staged) alien invasion? The idea of a nuke going off was presented in one of the early drafts of the screenplay version, but probably won't be used (nor do I think it should).

  • April 30, 2007, 6:27 a.m. CST

    Will evil Matt be interesting? Thats the question

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Coz he's boring as hell at the moment. Will Peters hair still be perfect after he blows up? Thats what I want to know

  • April 30, 2007, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Alien invasion or nuclear attack...

    by Angry Mean Panda

    It's still the same story of a former hero calculating that the only way to bring about world peace is to cause a disaster so epic as to unite the world, the human casualites be damned. First of all, while that HAS been used as a plot device before and after Watchmen, the setting of it in a show about superheros is going to invite those comparisons, and 99% of them are going to be negative. And you can't play the homage card, because Kring isists he's never read a comic. So you can't really homage something that you have no knowledge of. If the guy had admitted he reads comics, I'd have no problem with it. At all. But as long as he insists on saying he's never read them, I'm going to continue to call bullshit on this sort of thing.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:45 a.m. CST

    fortunately I've never read Watchmen...

    by just pillow talk

    so I don't have any comparisons to worry about and can just enjoy the show Watchmen-free. Petey ain't gonna blow up...too much of the show's budget goes into keeping his hair looking like that, they can't have it getting flayed.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:56 a.m. CST

    dont want to read magic invisotext!!!

    by moners

    how can I stop myself...exam in two hours or TB...if only I was Hiro...

  • April 30, 2007, 7:19 a.m. CST

    Ellen Greene!

    by maxwell's hammer

    She's totally nuts! I love her!

  • April 30, 2007, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Showdown in...

    by Kid Z

    ...KIRBY Plaza?!!? Nice little homage there, guys. Good job. Beats all hell out of Tim Sorry and that Fantastic Four abomination coming in June.

  • April 30, 2007, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Prof. Pop-Cult

    by zacdilone

    Dude...lighten up on the paranoia. The producers of "Lost" are not sending messages to you through Mikhail.

  • April 30, 2007, 7:35 a.m. CST

    the choice is easy moners...

    by just pillow talk

    you must do what's right....TB. Learning is for wussies...

  • April 30, 2007, 7:40 a.m. CST

    Rock and Roll Crazy Nights

    by Dataset

    I watch Heroes tonight!

  • April 30, 2007, 7:53 a.m. CST

    wahhh!! I read the invisotext! Wahhhh!!!

    by Russman

    wow, this is going to be fun. I kind of have to agree with some of you, that so far this is playing out better than 4400. I wouldn't be surprised if 4400 shuts down after their next season. It would be sad but NBC owns USA and I have the feeling the suits will want to only have one show with people with abilities. Who knows... can't wait for tonight though.

  • April 30, 2007, 7:58 a.m. CST

    No real spoilers in Invisotext

    by jimbojones123

    It's basically network descriptions. Why the invisotext?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Only 5 years in the future...

    by jimbojones123

    can you find a 1920's syringe with such a large metal handle. Really, did they get hero to pull that needle out of a WWI hospital? And why is the mutant vaccine like 4 oz.? I mean, what happens if you only get in 3.75 oz.? Do they only lose most of their powers?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Simone's alive?!!!

    by biggles2_22

    Is that what I just read? If so, MAJOR SPOILER! Great show! So is Lost. Sue me.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:49 a.m. CST

    I ment Hiro, not hero.

    by jimbojones123

    Lack of edit is one of the funny quirks right, I shouldn't be SO DANG UPSET!!!!! AAAARRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 9 a.m. CST

    Change of episode title, Herc.."Five Years Gone"

    by Pennsy

    I believe, is its new name. Larry King Live, when he had the cast of Heroes on the show last week, showed the first few moments of tonight's episode, and when FutureHiro opened a door which led to a view of the smashed New York landscape, the graphic showed <p> "Chapter 20: Five Years Gone"

  • April 30, 2007, 9:01 a.m. CST

    Never read comics, my ass.

    by 7pointedstar

    Like so many of you have mentioned, so far, the show's creators have borrowed plot elements from Watchmen, Days Of Future Past and Civil War...not to mention the entire series feeling like Straczynski's Rising Stars.<p>It's entertaining as hell...but the creators kind of look like a guy standing next to the broken store window of an electronics store with a TV in their hands saying, "Oh, this TV? It's mine. I was just taking it for a walk."

  • April 30, 2007, 9:03 a.m. CST

    Will. Not. Succumb.

    by Itchy

    I'm not looking at the damned inviso-text, so stop putting it there. The episode tonight is either going to be fabulous or pointless ... can't wait to see which. And since this is pretty much a total X-Men ripoff (not that I'm complaining), can we all agree HRG is Nick Fury ?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:15 a.m. CST

    simone has a superpower?

    by BadMrWonka

    is it coming back from a deserved death to slow down an exciting TV show yet again?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:36 a.m. CST

    I've been up since 12:30pm yesterday

    by allyousay

    and knowing this makes it ALL worth it. Dammit, why did someone have to die? Now I can't watch it with the rest of my fine nerd/dork brethren. AH....but to the DVR it must go! That Spidey thing looks really cool, though. I wonder how much it will be worth in 25 years.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:06 a.m. CST

    You guys realize Watchman ripped off outer limits

    by Lovecraftfan

    Seriously just watch Architects of Fear. Pretty obvious parallel. But really who cares. So the show isn;t original. It's also a whole lot of fun so get over yourselves.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:40 a.m. CST

    OR...

    by david19

    Tim Kring had the basic idea then sat down with a bunch of writers who came up with the story, and THEY had read comics.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Jeph Loeb, a noted comics writer, writes for HEROES...

    by SpyGuy

    ...so presumably, he could bring up the plot similarities to the writing staff. <p>Me, I really don't care if the plots are RISING STARS, WATCHMEN and X-MEN ripoffs, because HEROES is light-years better than any of the X-MEN movies. Bring on the "Crisis on Infinite Heroes" episode!

  • April 30, 2007, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Hey...

    by david19

    It may be those storylines wrapped up in another package, but otherwise we would never have gotten to see these great stories on screen if not for Heroes. Bring on the Clone Saga!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Add one helping Watchmen, a dash of X-Men

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    Still, a pretty good effort imo

  • April 30, 2007, 11:11 a.m. CST

    HEROES/LOST/GOOD TELEVISION

    by TheBigChill

    I just have to say that right now we are pretty lucky to be able to watch these shows on separate days without their times conflicting with one another. Heroes gives every comic book geek fan their chance to see a comic book brought to life for 22 weeks. It does a great job of developing characters, plots, and suspense... even though some of the story lines are ripped straight out of other comics. Sorry, Heroes is headed straight for the Watchmen ending. I love it, but I hope it doesn't take any thunder away from itself or The Watchmen movie when it comes to theaters next summer with The Dark Knight (that is something to look forward to). Either way it is compelling television. Then there is LOST. Come on. If you gave up on this show sometime last season, or even after the miniseason that ended in November, shame on you. Seriously, this show has really started to pick up pace. Yeah, it took forever for the series to finally start answering questions, but now that it has it is doing a better job than Heroes at creating questions of more interest than Heroes does. I'm not bashing Heroes, but they are two completely different shows outside of the fact that both build upon their story lines. Love each for their own reasons. Both have mythologies that are fascinating and complex, which outside of these two, not many shows are offering up. The 4400 does, and I need to catch up on that. I'm not sure about BSG or anything else of that sort, and if it does, I'm gonna need to do some catching up on television. Since Carnivale was canceled, these two shows do a better job of keeping me guessing and creating ideas as to what is going to happen next than any other show on television. Now all we need is a GOOD zombie show and I think I'll be able to be happy with television today.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:16 a.m. CST

    Will.resist.invisotext.

    by Pennsy

    *:p at invisotext and will wait to be shocked tonight*

  • April 30, 2007, 11:18 a.m. CST

    President Sylar

    by Cartel West

    would just be too awesome.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:19 a.m. CST

    I hated Simone

    by Leopold Scotch

    I upgraded from liking the show to loving it when she died.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:28 a.m. CST

    GG did an interview and said that Parkman...

    by Russman

    will be a totally different person and that we're gonna really hate what he's turned into and what he does to a fan favorite. It's only 928am in LA... I need a time machine....and an NBC East Coast feed!

  • April 30, 2007, 11:33 a.m. CST

    it's 12:30 pm on the East Coast now...

    by just pillow talk

    I'm gonna see it before you, I'm gonna see it before you...just kidding Russman. I can't wait to see what stuff they drop on us this week. And what happens to Parkman? Hmm...

  • April 30, 2007, 11:37 a.m. CST

    The 24:Heros ratio this week will be 1:2

    by jimbojones123

    But unfortunatly the 1 for 24 will mostly be bashing or making fun of the show. Heros will have the most positive buzz since we first saw Future Hero. That's the episode that really turned on the fanboys.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:40 a.m. CST

    pillow talk..... you torturer!!!

    by Russman

    just rub lemon juice in my self inflicted cuts. Do you want to know about Parkman? or were you just thinking outloud.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:43 a.m. CST

    Simone --

    by jimbojones123

    Did she play George Lopez's daughter in Sharkboy/Lavagirl. I swear -- throw on some glasses and take 18/20 inches off her...

  • April 30, 2007, 11:43 a.m. CST

    Hey Butters! ahem, I mean Leopold

    by Russman

    I second that! I can't stand Simone either and was sooo happy when she died. Then I started hearing spoilers that she's coming back, which were confirmed when a co-worker's friend of a friend who knows a cast member said that cast member said to not belive everything you see. Damn-it Cholie!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Lovecraftfan

    by jimbojones123

    "kring refuses to acknowledge that he has ever read a comic in his life" This SOOOO reminds me of the episode of "Saved by the Bell" where Slater designs all those clothes to sell and gets busted by the original designer because he doesn't remember seeing them as a kid working in his mom's sweatshop. He may not remember reading the comics, but as somebody stated earlier it may be a hidden archtype in his subconcious that is coming out in his episodic Heros writing???? Oh, AC should have beat Emmitt too.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:50 a.m. CST

    jimbojones

    by Fount of Useless Info

    Usually, I'm the guy making goofy pop culture comparisons in the talkbacks for Lost and Heroes. However, I don't think I could ever top that one. Good post.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Realistically

    by kadayi

    I'm sure Kring has read comics in his time, it's probably more than he never actively got into making a habit of buying, reading and collecting them. If your only a casual participant it's better to play down your knowledge, rather than beef it up and get caught out.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Really I didn't know Moore acknowledged that

    by Lovecraftfan

    Anyway I really don't get the upset whether Kring read comics or not. Whether it's inadvertent or not I just don't why it matters that much. It makes for a fun show either way.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Lovecraft, i guess the argument is

    by Novaman5000

    That he's lying about never having read a comic and that's ridiculous. Doesn't really matter either way, though. I like Heroes, but it's cotton candy...tasty for a while but not particularly filling.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Shortcuts...

    by david19

    A coupla things I would like to see. I know its a TV show but it would be great to see an effects heavy show, and it looks like maybe today might be our chance. I am peeing my pants with glee finding out that Niki-Jessica have merged in this Ep. I would like to see her really let loose, and go all Hulk, and throw a car or jump across buildings or something. It will be great to see what Parkman is capable of in this ep. And I agree, Simone should stay dead. My big beef with this show is how conviniently all the Heroes seem to find each other. It seems like anytime there is a normal human he/she turns out to have powers at some point. This is a bit hard to swallow, and Ive learned to accept it, but its still a little distracting. I accepted it with DL Hawkins cause he has a cool power, but I wonder if they are ever going to give a better explanation for how it happened then just coincidence. Now with Simone and her dad possibly having powers, we might be ending up in eye-rolling territory. The good in this show outweighs the bad, but still, every now and again it kinda feels like the writers are taking shortcuts.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:32 p.m. CST

    TIM KRING CREATED HEROES!!!

    by david19

    HE IS NOT THE WRITER. TV shows are collaborations, and I am sure there were meetings of some sort to really decide the direction of the show. This entire conversation is pointless.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:37 p.m. CST

    I agree!! who cares about Kring and comics...

    by Russman

    Do you like the show? yes? good. Is it similar to other material? maybe so or totally yes. Does it really matter if you're entertained? No. Are other people suing NBC? Nope. So who cares guys. It's a fun show. So lets just have fun.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:47 p.m. CST

    I recently transported myself 5 years into the future..

    by stereochad

    into a world where it is widely accepted that Tim Kring was nothing but a hack with a gimmick. Also in this future, true comic lovers recognize that J. Loeb was just an overated name (brand) who was cool with big picture stuff, but lacked the writing chops to fully realize his characters and stories. Oh wait, did I say 5 years? I meant 5 weeks.

  • April 30, 2007, 12:49 p.m. CST

    "just pillow talk" good shout!

    by moners

    but unfortunately I did my exam...

  • April 30, 2007, 12:52 p.m. CST

    TheBigChill

    by ATARI

    For me it is Heroes-The Shield-Lost for Mon-Tues-Wed.<br> <br> TV is pretty darn good right now.<br>

  • April 30, 2007, 12:53 p.m. CST

    fine, fine, u have your priorities moners...

    by just pillow talk

    but you are now back with the villainy and scum, so you are okay now...

  • April 30, 2007, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Stereochad...

    by david19

    prides himself on his wit, and spends his time traveling to talk-backs about shows he doesn't like but apparently still watches so that he can, with a smirk on his face and a twinkle in his eye, write biting observations then with great gusto stick a triumphant finger up in the air which he brings down onto the awaiting "post" button, after which he leans back in his chair, satisfied at a job well done, then waits for the world to recognize his unparalled literary genius. <P>"Now they'll see," he says to himself, "Yes, now they'll all see!"

  • April 30, 2007, 1:32 p.m. CST

    And now...

    by david19

    I want you all to laugh at my wit!!! Laugh, world, laugh!!!! I crave your acceptance!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Alan Moore, Watchmen & Outer Limits

    by ChildOfMen

    Yeah..... if you look closely in Watchmen, I believe Moore actually put in a number of specific references to the Outer Limits and that "Architects of Fear" episode. And I think at the very end of the series an episode of the "Outer Limits" is being shown on TV (I don't recall if it was specifically the Architects of Fear episode though or another episode about aliens).

  • April 30, 2007, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Televsion

    by Bluejack

    I agree with you ThBigChill. When you can remember Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley being the highlight of the TV week, you have to realize how good geeks/nerds have it these days. Heroes ain't perfect, nor are Kring and Loeb, but I look forward to tuning in Monday nights, and I missed the show during the hiatus.

  • April 30, 2007, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Multiple Treatments of the Same Subject

    by Bluejack

    The same argument could be made that the Incredibles ripped off the FF just prior to the FF movie. It's not a big deal to use the same ideas. It's the execution and artistry of the ideas that makes a movie or show interesting. "Architects of Fear," "Heroes," and the Watchmen may all have similarities, but there aren't any new ideas. They are all variants of the basic story archetypes.

  • April 30, 2007, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Tim Kring and comic books

    by Valebant

    If the man says he's never read them then believe him. In 25 years, I've read one graphic novel and not a single comic book, yet nothing on Heroes is a surprise to me. People outside of the comic book world, as myself, have seen movies, cartoons, TV shows etc. AND know and talk to people who do read comic books. Ideas get regurgitated and it is perfectly legal and inescapable. You can't copyright an idea. Believe me, "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there's nothing new under the sun." <br> It's in the Bible, look it up.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Ripping off more comics stories

    by Rupee88

    Very similar to X-Men's "Days of Future Past". This show rips off stuff every week and never gives any credit, even in interviews with the show's creators. I wish Marvel or DC woule sue these pricks.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:09 p.m. CST

    just read entire talkback

    by Rupee88

    I'm glad to see that it is obvious to most everyone that these Heroes writers aren't creating anything remotely original. At least it gives me some hope for humanity that at least the geeks know that these guys are thieves. You could remake Star Wars and show it to some natives in Africa and they would think you were a genius when you would really just be a thief making money off of other's hard work and talent.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Rupee88

    by david19

    Thank you for adding yet another pointless post to an already dragged out thread.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Impossible to "rip off" comics

    by DrSpine

    There are natural storylines and ideas that any show that deals with superheroes is going to gravitate to. Comics have been around for so long it would be very hard not to "rip off" some concepts. I WAS slightly disappointed with the Linderman story angle as it is very close to Watchmen (which I think is overrated--ducks for cover).We should just be glad that we have an entertaining superhero show to watch on a major network. I thought this puppy would be cancelled in the first 6 episodes like everything else this year.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:19 p.m. CST

    didn't they say that Simone...

    by heroesisdashiznit

    had no powers in the second pod? I am confused...

  • April 30, 2007, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Hey! Remember that story where...

    by Bones

    Hey! Remember that story where groups of people were set up, then marginalized, put in census lists for tracking "dangerous" elements, imprisoned and eliminated? Where it was up to a small minority of heroes fighting for their very survival?<p> Days of Future Past you say? NO--go earlier!<p> Some alternative Earth story of Star Trek? NO -- go earlier!<p> Do I mean some other parallel Earth story--like they used to do in the old DC unverse comics? NO!<P> I mean Nazi Germany, or the dozens (or hundreds) of other times throughout history where one group declares another unfit and dangerous, deserving of destruction.<p> Tim Kring had never really read comics before he started this show, but a lot of the other players in the shows creation are old hands at comics, like Jeph Loeb. Kring keeps coming up with ideas and the other have to keep telling him that it has already been done before. But that is to be expected. You can think of Comic Books and Sci-Fi stories as the basis for all of Heroes, but also have to look at what inspired those sources as well.<p> You will never get a better source of inspiration than World History...and well, Mythology...

  • April 30, 2007, 2:26 p.m. CST

    I personally can't wait for...

    by Orbots Commander

    the Heroes version of "For the Man Who Has Everything" storyline. Someone above even mentioned a "Crisis on Infinite Earths" ripoff/take-off. It's good TV, so hey, more power to the Heroes writers and producers.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:38 p.m. CST

    90TH!

    by Pennsy

    So there. ;)

  • April 30, 2007, 2:41 p.m. CST

    'German engineering in da HOUSE!'

    by Pennsy

    That dude cracks me the frack up.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:47 p.m. CST

    clip from tonight's show online

    by BadMrWonka

    http://tinyurl.com/yvtegh not too heavy with spoilers, just an intro of what you're gonna see (and an answer to what the papers and strings were). but if you want to wait to see future Hiro in all his badassness, you should pass.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:49 p.m. CST

    http://tinyurl.com/yvtegh

    by BadMrWonka

    sorry for the bad formatting...

  • April 30, 2007, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Heroes Freakin ROCKS!!

    by MarkoOhNo

    I'm SO tempted to read the spoilage, but NO... must... be... strong!!

  • April 30, 2007, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Papers and Strings

    by Fount of Useless Info

    There is also info on what they are in last week's online comic over at nbc.com. It also reveals just who it was that went boom and why they had to save Claire Bear.

  • April 30, 2007, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Will Heroes go for the Watchmen Ending?

    by ChildOfMen

    I had been thinking that Heroes was leading towards the Watchmen ending, but now I am not so sure. At least from the preview for tonight's episode, they are framing this episode as "look how bad things will get if they DON'T 'save the world'", which I at least assume is a setup for having them actually prevent the explosion. If that is the case though, that would be very different from the Watchmen ending, which turned on the idea that they were too late to stop it, and even if they weren't, they couldn't reveal the truth about it because Adrian's plan DID work in uniting the world and averting disaster. Heroes seems to be going for a different type of ending...... one where the explosion does not unite the world, but instead brings about a "days of future past" type of dark future, leading them to know they have to stop it. So even though this seems influenced by Watchmen, the direction at least seems to be perhaps more traditional, relatively speaking. I somehow do not see Heroes going in the direction where they let the explosion happen and no-one is punished for it. But this is of course just based on the preview for tonight's episode. I suspect perhaps there is more going on with Heroes, so who knows.

  • April 30, 2007, 3:25 p.m. CST

    As a former hater.....

    by Jobacca

    I must say I was wrong about Heroes. The first 3 episodes were SOOOO BAD I was convinced it was going to be total crap. About halfway into the season,I was convinced to give it another chance and I'm glad I did. Its been very entertaining (even if it does rip off damn near every comic ever made) and I'm looking fwd to picking up the DVD. Does anybody know if the online comic will be collected into a real graphic novel format? I hate reading books online....

  • April 30, 2007, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Watchmen, Civil War, X-Men, Broken Saints...

    by theseventhshore

    Man...don't get me wrong - I dig the show and all - but at what point does a nod or an homage become outright plagiarism? Should the creators of the above properties wrangle for royalties at some point?

  • April 30, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Does anyone but me think that Future Hiro...

    by biggles2_22

    ...is actually Syler in disguise!? Think about it, he doesn't have an accent and his voice does sound different.

  • April 30, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    by LeviDTinker

    by emeraldboy

    I agree, I cant get into it either and I have tried. Channel 6 is in trouble anyways and it looks like it will get a shake up. My problem is that these people are heroes but they seem to be really dark, so does that imply there not heroes but half heroes/half villain or something. I dont know if I'll keep watching this or not . I find it a very confusingly written program. Take Mister Bennett, is a good guy or not? he seems really vague in fact they all do. Bah this shows stinks. Hiro and his friend is good and Sylar is cool in the way he Turns up kills and leaves.

  • April 30, 2007, 3:58 p.m. CST

    emeraldboy- Thats one of the assets of the show

    by Lovecraftfan

    I don't see whats wrong with grey areas in the character. Heroes dont have to be black and white.

  • April 30, 2007, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Rip off? maybe, but...

    by Arashikage

    I don't care if Heroes is stealing ideas from X-men or Watchmen or any other comic (and it is). It's bringing these stories to my TV screen once a week with interesting characters (most of them anyway)and "page turning" writing. Nobody else was doing it and I'm enjoying every minute of it. It's the only show that I can't miss every week. Plus it blows the X-men movies away IMHO.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:05 p.m. CST

    At what point will marvel

    by emeraldboy

    unleash the leagal dogs?

  • April 30, 2007, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Blah blah blah...

    by david19

    Ok I think at most we need 10 posts to make a point. WE GET IT NOW, Heroes rips off some comic storylines. It feels like the frikkin Anna-Nicole Smith news coverage in here. Its gone on too long and we didnt care in the first place.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:08 p.m. CST

    I guess Canadian TB'ers won't be sending us reviews

    by Pennsy

    of Heroes from here on out due to the hockey playoffs. Is that going to be the case every Monday until the finale on 5/21?

  • April 30, 2007, 4:09 p.m. CST

    The Anna Nicole coverage is so self-parody-ous...

    by Pennsy

    Entertainment Tonight is showing near real-time footage of the ANS movie with Willa Ford. I'd rather watch the Real Wedding Crashers than that shit.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:16 p.m. CST

    How bout...

    by david19

    any thoughts on where Season 2 will take these characters. Will Sylar survive beyond this season? He is a good villain but do we need him for more then one season? <P>Right now I see Peter's future as iffy, but as for the rest of them, what new conflict could arise if Sylar dies? Or what if Sylar doesnt die? How could he become more interesting beyond hunting down a new hero every week. Will this show ever become a team show? If it does where would it go? If it doesn't what will our heroes do? Its obvious that each of them needs to explore their powers further, and if thats the case what kind of things beyond what we have already seen are they capable of? Post your thoughts.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:18 p.m. CST

    COPYRIGHT LAW

    by Valebant

    Legal wrangling is just not going to happen. None of the aforementioned properties have a case. I believe I've said this before, but: John Q. knows very little about copyright laws. <br> First, what is protected?<p> Copyright only protects fixed, tangible means of expression (literary compositions, music, film &c.); ideas are not protected. (In Europe, they say the form is protected, not the idea). <br> Second, how is it protected? <p> Two (basic) ways: from copying and from derivative works. <br> Copying is either a) actual or b) substantially similar.<p> If actual copying, you are China and the DVD industry. <p> If you are copying in a substantially similar fashion, you MIGHT be Stephen Spielberg a la Barbara Chase-Riboud in the Amistad case (Note: the author had been interviewed about adapting the book for the screen, said no; movie went ahead anyhow. She LOST her motion for summary judgment, but settled out later). <p> Otherwise, substantial similarity requires much much more than Heroes v. any plaintiff contemplated. <br> Derivate works refer to, primarily, unauthorized sequels. Heroes is not using the Marvel Universe, &c. <br> In American copyright law, we have two goals - protecting the author and promoting competition/access of ideas to the public. If someone comes up with a better way to express an author's idea, they have little reason to worry.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Pennsy

    by david19

    Well from what weve seen in here, now we know why the Anna Nicole Smith thing wont die. Some people just dont want to let something go no matter how unimportant it is. Its the reason reality TV has stuck around for so long...

  • April 30, 2007, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Apparently...

    by Valebant

    I need to mind my p's and br's.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Valebent

    by david19

    Once again, thank you for yet another bit of pointless overblown information.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:29 p.m. CST

    SoylentMean

    by david19

    Probably not until Sept. though it would be awesome if they had already planned it out and released it around June. A couple weeks ago you could watch every single EP of Heroes on NBC.com. Last time I checked they were all removed except for the last 5 Eps, but maybe it was a fluke. Its not the greatest quality (ABC.com has much better quality video) but unless you want to use a bittorent its the best way to watch Eps fast without downloading.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:40 p.m. CST

    that tim kring claims to have never read a comic

    by slappy jones

    is fucking hilarious.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:42 p.m. CST

    For the love of Jebus, drop the Watchmen talk...

    by purplemonkeydw

    Please! On another note, I'm hoping Sylar meets his end this season, the guy looks like the love child of Dane Cook and Dax Shepard, inhereting both their comedic timing and creepiness.

  • April 30, 2007, 4:46 p.m. CST

    david19,

    by Valebant

    you're welcome. <br> However, "pointless" does not describe my post, though "unnecessary and excessive" do. What would be appropriate is to describe allegations against Tim Kring/Heroes as pointless and overblown. <br>

  • April 30, 2007, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Jobacca...

    by Russman

    That's curious that you didn't like the first three episodes. For me I was hooked from the start. I recognize that some of the acting was bad, but the idea was so damn cool and exciting that I didn't let any of that bother me. What for you exactly made the show seem so bad. I'd like to rewatch the first few shows and see what you saw, because I totally missed it. Any chance you can help a brother out?

  • April 30, 2007, 4:53 p.m. CST

    copyright law

    by Bloo

    Someone above was talking about copyright law. If you can't sue for a basic idea, how then did Harlen Ellison (who I love) get money off Cameron for Terminator. There's been other cases where, again Harlen I believe, has sued and won for people stealing "ideas" or the plot? It's possible DC/Marvel are waiting to a)see where things go in this show to see if they are similar enough to warent suit or b)have a deal with NBC to advertise Marvel/DC movies, do special "sneak" trailers, etc on Hero's

  • April 30, 2007, 4:56 p.m. CST

    biggles2_22 - Sylar isn't Future Hiro

    by Russman

    If you go to nbc.com and look at last week's comic you'll see Future Hiro's story about what happened in his timeline. He states that he stabbed Sylar, but Sylar healed and then exploded. Hiro then found out Sylar got the regeneration powers from Clair. So he tracked down Peter, went back in time and told him - save the cheerleader, save the world. Except as we just saw, it didn't work....

  • April 30, 2007, 5:02 p.m. CST

    emeraldboy

    by Russman

    If the everyone on the show was just good and evil, I think the show would be boring. Just think about how many people curse out Scott (Psyclops) in X-men because he's such a goody two-shoes. The idea of this show is that these are regular people who manifest special abilities. Very very few people are just totally good. They have moments where they're very noble and complete shits. I vote for you to keep watching and see how it all works out.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Excessive!!!

    by david19

    Dammit! That friking word was on the tip of my tongue! Thank you very much...

  • April 30, 2007, 5:11 p.m. CST

    damn you wonka!

    by bigpth

    damn you wonka!

  • April 30, 2007, 5:16 p.m. CST

    The trouble with HEROES

    by CorpseRide

    Is that it would be good, except that by ripping off so many better things, it makes itself look weak by comparison. The moment they moved to ripping off the Watchmen climax, they invited comparisons, which are only gonna hurt Heroes.<p> Not only did Moore improve on the plot of AoF, andapply it to a superhero story, he explicitly credited it by having it playing on the TV in the final chapter.<p> Kring, or whatever his name is, has taken that plot, made it make less sense, used it as a cheap season finale instead of the full stop it deserves to be, and claims to have never read a comic book.<p> So, no in-show nods to his predecessors, then.<p> If you want to see someone show som class, read Watchmen, Chapter XII, page 28.<p> Here it is in the Annotated Watchmen:<br> http://tinyurl.com/yvwmmw<p> Note the suggestion that the character got his idea from WATCHING Architects of Fear - full credit given from an author who improved upon the original. Compare to Heroes, where they render the plot point illogical (no specified outside menace, which is required for the desired effect), and explicitly deny any outside inspiration. Buncha hacks.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:16 p.m. CST

    hechtal

    by Rupee88

    I didn't say that Star Wars itself was original, just that Heroes is not. I know that Lucas is no genius and "borrowed" from other stories and classic "myths", etc. But there are levels of originality and SW is much higher up than Heroes which is just a carbon copy of certain comics at some times.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:16 p.m. CST

    What I didnt like.....

    by Jobacca

    I just think the first few episodes moved too slow-I realize now that they had A LOT of plot points and characters to introduce but the flow just seemed off,and as mentioned,it took awhile for some of the actors to really get into the swing of things. Once the plot started moving and things actually started happening,it got a lot more interesting.I also felt,at first,that it was going to be another show like LOST that dragged on and on without giving any answers. I thik a lot of the reason I like HEROES is because they are actually answering a lot of the questions the viewers have had about the show and the characters.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Harlan Ellison...

    by Valebant

    is the Ralph Nader of the internet. <br> You can sue for anything, even an idea, you just won't win. As you said, Ellison "got money off Cameron" - he did not win a lawsuit. It's called "shut up money." Same thing happened with the Amistad case I mentioned. Basically, the author threatened to enjoin release of the movie and it became an easy cost-benefit analysis for Spielberg. <br> Ellison settles out and rarely goes to court. I'm not aware of any lawsuits he has won on these facts (he won a USENET case, but it involved direct copying). <br> However, if enough elements are similar, then you can win on substantial copying infringement. Both of your possibilities are valid.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Sulu has what?!

    by DiernaSoul

    Ok.. now I've known for weeks from reading herosite.net that this week's ep is ripped straight from Civil War what with the superhero registration act (darn you Tony Stark!). But Sulu has powers now?! At this point it seems that HRG is the only one who doesn't have powers. Should be interesting to see just how evil Parkman is. I wonder what Sulu's powers are tho? Perhaps the power to helm a starship? I bet he's got special words he says to bring out his powers. "Oh my!" *lightening strikes*

  • April 30, 2007, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Jobacca - okay I see what you mean

    by Russman

    thanks for the reply. I know where you're coming from now. For me, I didn't mind the slow start...I looked at this like a novel where it does take a little bit of time to establish the world and the players. Again, thanks for the reply.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:29 p.m. CST

    I hope they don't use a Days of Future

    by SylarTheCylon

    Past type of story because I'd hate for the show to focus too much on jumping in time. Everything becomes "fixable/repairable" and loses some of its impact when a time jumper can repair it (though I'm well aware of Hiro's inability to save GoogleGirl). Regarding the future seasons, I hope they become a superhero team. I also hope the storyline starts getting more daring and they travel to other planets, dimensions, fight monsters (and real dinosaurs) etc. Maybe in the final season they can have a death of phoenix type of saga where Peter Petrelli has transformed into an insane, almost all-powerful, superbeing and his team, led by Simone, battles an extraterrestrial group of heroes in order to save Peters life. Peter dying like that would be an awesome end to the series. Well, those are just my 2 centavos...

  • April 30, 2007, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Whatever...

    by david19

    I guess Ill just wait until after the show airs. Maybe then this stupid Watchmen/DoFP/Plagiarism/Tim Kring and Comics crap will have gone far far away.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:40 p.m. CST

    I hope "Damn you Wonka" catches on

    by BadMrWonka

    I'd be honored to be part of a catch phrase...

  • April 30, 2007, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Yeah...

    by CorpseRide

    ...I hope Tim Kring's claims to have never read a comic go away real soon too.

  • April 30, 2007, 5:42 p.m. CST

    you know...think about it...

    by DarkCable

    after the crap of super heroe movies we have had to endure (cough x3)...I have no problem with Heroes recycling stories from the comic books...at least it will be done better...and last time I checked michael bay was not attached to heroes...

  • April 30, 2007, 5:58 p.m. CST

    HRG Man's superpower is... [SPOILER]

    by CorpseRide

    He has a superstrong metal bonded to his skeleton, and steel claws emerge from between his knuckles! He can cope with it thanks to his healing factor. This has probably happened in comics before (I wouldn't know - don't read them), because it's such a strong archetype, and mirrors real world concerns, like... uh... genetic engineering? [note to producer - is this right?]

  • April 30, 2007, 6:01 p.m. CST

    CorpseRide

    by david19

    Shut the fuck up.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:09 p.m. CST

    who cares if it rips stuff off!

    by rockness

    We'll never get a cool sentinal mutants are hunted in the future X-men movie. They dropped the ball. We'll probably(I'd love to be proven wrong) never get a true to form amazing Watchmen movie with all of the nuance it would need to be amazing. So at least we have this which is all of the above and at least it is episodic and fun.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Mere coincidences, eerie similarities &c.

    by Valebant

    My only point is: So what? <br><p> As long as Kring is within the law, it doesn't matter to me. I like our marketplace of ideas. <br><p> By the way, The Matrix and all other such stories directly borrow from Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:26 p.m. CST

    "after the crap of super heroe movies..."

    by Playkins

    "after the crap of super heroe movies we have had to endure (cough x3)". Yeah, sure. Because someone held a gun to your head and FORCED you to see them all. Statements like that sound almost incomprehensibly stupid. Stop going to movies/websites about movies/watching TV if it's so damn 'painful' for you.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:30 p.m. CST

    Damn you Wonka!

    by leesheri

    ;) Thanks, you gave me my Heroes fix. Can't watch until tomorrow when it goes up online.

  • April 30, 2007, 6:52 p.m. CST

    HOP ABOARD, THE WATCHMAN'S JOCK HAS ROOM FOR ALL !

    by Pound Sand

    Lost just ever so slightly > Heroes.

  • April 30, 2007, 7:08 p.m. CST

    SURPRISE ! ! !

    by Napoleon Park

    "Chapter One comes to a conclusion and Chapter Two surprisingly begins." yeah, I'll bet that twist catches everyone who's never read a book completely off guard. "Days of Future Past" was not the first Moody Blues album to deal with a government trying to control or ban superhumans, but I have to admit Claremont and Byrne did a pretty good job with the idea. (On right now, while we wait - the classic first season House episode where Greg does LSD-25 to get rid of a migraine, in order to discredit an old rival. Note they never explain where he got it - it's just assumed "Oh, of course House has acid".)

  • April 30, 2007, 7:14 p.m. CST

    happy to help

    by BadMrWonka

    Damn you Wonka!

  • April 30, 2007, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Kring is NOT (necessarily) ripping off X-Men

    by jmyoung666

    None of the ideas in Heroes is tied to the X-Men concept. Certainly, that may be the case and Kring could be completely full of shit. However, think about a world where people begin manifesting powers in an otherwise normal human society. Many of the events on the show are logical results of such a status quo. Is every idea you ever had from a comic book? Given the basic premise of the show no one need to have read any of the comics referenced here to come up with the outline for Season One.

  • April 30, 2007, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Omg such a ripoff

    by Alientoast

    So like I was reading this book...I think it was based off a Mel Brooks movie cuz it said "History of the World". Anyways, there's this one chapter that TOTALLY rips off X-Men. There's some stupid made up country named Germany and this evil dude makes this race called "The Jews" all register with the government, because he is blaming them for all the problems. Then he starts setting up death camps and sends out bands of dudes that round these guys up. It was such a ripoff of X-Men it wasn't funny. Don't get me started on the later chapters...there's this one part this this dude named Martin Luther King. They try to hide the fact it's totally based off Professor X by making him not white and bald, but he has a dream about everyone living in peace...JUST LIVE PROFESSOR X!!! I'm sick of these hacks not being able to come up with original material!

  • April 30, 2007, 7:44 p.m. CST

    David19

    by CorpseRide

    Truth hurts. Now stop your lip tremblin' and stand up straight.

  • April 30, 2007, 7:53 p.m. CST

    What I don't get is why...

    by CorpseRide

    ...some people watch this and Tivo 24, or vice versa. I mean, 24 is aimed at 14 year old boys, and this is aimed at 14 year old girls. So who watches both, hermaphrodites? Who knew so many chicks-with-dicks hung out on AICN. Fascinating stuff, anthropologically speaking.

  • April 30, 2007, 7:58 p.m. CST

    It's showtime!!!

    by Onomaki Forp

    Here we go...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:01 p.m. CST

    9pm on the East coast!!!!!

    by Russman

    Lucky mothers!!!! I have 3 more hours to go. Wahhhh!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Here we go...

    by Pennsy

  • April 30, 2007, 8:02 p.m. CST

    "Talk to yourself."

    by Pennsy

    LMAO.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:03 p.m. CST

    "I scare me"

    by Russman

    saw this part on You Tube.... LUCKY MOTHERS!!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:07 p.m. CST

    In one fell swoop...

    by Darth Valinorean

    ... even before the title sequence, the best episode (so far) and best part of Heroes so far!!! BRILLIANTLY DONE and P.Petrelli is the only one powerful enough.. this kicks ass.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Must...skip...posts...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...written by by spoilers...until episode ends...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:08 p.m. CST

    'No...Still gay"

    by Onomaki Forp

    great commercial.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST

    Russman

    by bigpth

    Run! While you still can! I feel spoilage coming!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST

    you East Coast Lucky Mothers!!!

    by Russman

    I'm going to play some hitman: bloodmoney until 9pm. grrrrrrrr

  • April 30, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST

    awesome!

    by bigpth

    super strip club!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Peter...and JESSICA??

    by Pennsy

  • April 30, 2007, 8:11 p.m. CST

    damnit...hiro ruined a

    by bigpth

    damnit...hiro ruined a strip!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:12 p.m. CST

    Peter has scar cuz he didnt save clair in this reality

    by George Newman

    I dont like this type of time theory. it is flawed

  • April 30, 2007, 8:14 p.m. CST

    parkman is a

    by bigpth

    parkman is a dick...president petrelli as well...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:15 p.m. CST

    Mr. PRESIDENT?

    by Pennsy

  • April 30, 2007, 8:15 p.m. CST

    mohinder the lick-spittle?

    by bigpth

    mohinder the lick-spittle?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:16 p.m. CST

    It's the Opposide of 24!

    by Larry of Arabia

    In Heros Homeland Security are the torture mongering bad guys in a totalitarian state, where as on 24 the are the opposite.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:17 p.m. CST

    HOLY SHIT - I'm speechless (so I'll type)

    by Fish Tank

    THAT was an amazing episode. Kudos to all!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:17 p.m. CST

    the answer to the mutant

    by bigpth

    the answer to the mutant "question".

  • April 30, 2007, 8:18 p.m. CST

    and...

    by Darth Valinorean

    .... the show continues to kick ass!!! serious f'n Hero ass!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:19 p.m. CST

    bigpth - you are spot on

    by Darth Valinorean

    ... this is the answer to the mutant question. Nice on that post.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:19 p.m. CST

    Is that really nathan...? Is that really Mohinder...?

    by Onomaki Forp

    Is Sylar hiding behind Candace's power posing as another...?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    the people who made "The

    by bigpth

    the people who made "The Real Wedding Crashers" should DIAF...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:21 p.m. CST

    I can't stand this type of time theory

    by George Newman

    this is a situation in which the future exists in realtime/in step with the past. The future won't change until the past physically does whatever it needs to to change. BUT THIS DOESN"T MAKE ANY SENSE!! The cheerleader was saved, therefore this future we are watching no longer exists! This version of the apocalypse does not exist anyway. Maybe "saving the cheerleader" didnt change Everything, but Future Hiro should have no recollection of saying "save the cheerleader,save the world". That future version of Hiro no longer exists because the cheerleader was saved and he would therefore have no reason to go back in time and change things. The only logical way to explain past and future coexisting is Fate/Causal Loop theory. People from the future go back trying to change things, but in hindsight only fulfill their role in destiny. In that theory the future can't be changed. In HEROES, the future will be changed. So the present and future coexisting like it is in this show doesn't make sense. Time to turn of brain.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST

    So it's not Peter who explodes.. maybe?

    by br1947

    Sylar absorbs both the shapeshifter chick & radioactive man, turns into Peter & blows up? Or alternate timeline?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST

    bennet really

    by bigpth

    bennet really changed...losing a hot daughter does that I guess...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:24 p.m. CST

    HRG guy switched his prescription glasses

    by Pennsy

    ;)

  • April 30, 2007, 8:26 p.m. CST

    hah! claire is now the

    by bigpth

    hah! claire is now the waitress at the Hiro diner...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:27 p.m. CST

    DarkHairedClaire!

    by Pennsy

    Me like.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:28 p.m. CST

    This is not as 2-D as I thought

    by George Newman

    I will be surprised if their is a sensible explanation.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Why does Peter have a scar then?

    by George Newman

    *fart sound*, time to be patient i guess.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:29 p.m. CST

    the linderman act?

    by bigpth

    the linderman act?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:30 p.m. CST

    ando's dead in the future...

    by bigpth

    ando's dead in the future...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST

    holy crap!

    by bigpth

    holy crap!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST

    PETER ROCKS

    by George Newman

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST

    HOLY PETRELLI BATMAN!!!!!!!

    by Darth Valinorean

    RIDICULOUSLY GOOD

  • April 30, 2007, 8:32 p.m. CST

    that was one of the cooler

    by bigpth

    that was one of the cooler things on TV...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:32 p.m. CST

    HOLY FRACK!

    by Pennsy

    Eeeek.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Peter is the shit

    by chavee

    In a Neo-ish sort of way. But cooler.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:32 p.m. CST

    future Claire is about 22...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...so it's legal now to look at her legs in those tiny little cut-offs...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Bad ass Peter

    by Darth Valinorean

    is as good as the Hiro character... This is the same Peter who tried so hard to fly and kept falling... superb episode. Last week I said this episode would suck ass. I take it back - I am eating crow!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:36 p.m. CST

    SHENANIGANS! I call it

    by George Newman

    In the beginning Future Hiro says that Sylar blew up the city because he had Claire's regenerative powers. But Claire is alive and well in the cafe. WHY IS FUTURE HIRO's MEMORY NOT CHANGED?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:37 p.m. CST

    WTF? Parkman is a bastard!

    by bigpth

    WTF? Parkman is a bastard!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:38 p.m. CST

    Deluxe at that, bigpth

    by Pennsy

  • April 30, 2007, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Shit, cubed!

    by Pennsy

    There's still 20 minutes to go.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:42 p.m. CST

    you guys are killing me....

    by Russman

    me want to see it now... Spin you stupid Earth, spin faster!!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:43 p.m. CST

    That Nathan is Sylar. Saw the atmosphere "ripple"

    by George Newman

    the hot chick reality changer

  • April 30, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST

    holy crap!

    by bigpth

    holy crap!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST

    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?

    by Pennsy

    President Sylar?????????????

  • April 30, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST

    ROTS

    by Darth Valinorean

    Return of the Sylar... well guessed folks!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST

    omg

    by majortom25

    WOW future nathan is really sylar in disguise.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST

    of course the previews last week ruined it anyway.

    by George Newman

    I stopped watching the previews after episode 4. I only accidently read about a description

  • April 30, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST

    See what happens when you don't read the evil

    by Pennsy

    invisotext? You'll see posts like the prior one I made. :D

  • April 30, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST

    i was right!!!

    by Onomaki Forp

    and not just here...read near the end of last week's thread...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    HOW DID PRES SYLAR SURVIVE HIROs STAB????

    by George Newman

    Hiro said that he stabbed Sylar, but he regenerated because he absorbed Claire's power.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    I just gasped for the first time in a long while

    by Larry of Arabia

    Man, now that was Awsome. Ando level awsome.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    mazeltov?

    by Onomaki Forp

    Claire is Jewish?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    Best episode of Heroes so far..

    by Darth Valinorean

    ... easily.. easily!!! Guys - we have a real plot here. A real f'n plot and finally a really good comic book adventure on the screen!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Continuity, Man!

    by George Newman

    Can't stand this

  • April 30, 2007, 8:47 p.m. CST

    if Claire is Jewish..

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...it's a good thing she's a girl...if she'd been a boy could you imagine the tsuris at the bris?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:51 p.m. CST

    and the people from Down Under ask...

    by voxmortis

    is the Bit Torrent up yet?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:52 p.m. CST

    holy shiat!

    by bigpth

    holy shiat!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:52 p.m. CST

    "Let's go fix it."

    by Pennsy

    And they're starting to do just that. :D

  • April 30, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Just Force Push the ceiling, Peter!

    by George Newman

    Blow Parkman and all those gunmen through the roof

  • April 30, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST

    OMG..

    by Darth Valinorean

    this is getting infinitely better.... PP is a better Neo than Neo

  • April 30, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST

    goddamn this is freakin

    by bigpth

    goddamn this is freakin awesome...feel bad for Russman...

  • April 30, 2007, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Its been while since I had a good fight..

    by Darth Valinorean

    f'n classic!!! Just f'n classic.. the confidence of PP & Future Hiro going into battle... and the friendship of Ando & Hiro - reminds me of Frodo & Sam

  • April 30, 2007, 8:55 p.m. CST

    BEST EPISODE OF TELEVISION

    by brokenheadstuff

    EVER.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:55 p.m. CST

    wow

    by br1947

    I can't form coherent words... best tv ever!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST

    END THE DISCUSSION

    by brokenheadstuff

    NO MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID. ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST STUPID AND FAT AND UGLY AND SMELLY

  • April 30, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Why can't PARKMAN read Sylar's mind?

    by George Newman

    *fart sound*

  • April 30, 2007, 8:58 p.m. CST

    kick ass mohinder!!!!

    by bigpth

    kick ass mohinder!!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:58 p.m. CST

    WAR MOHINDER!

    by Pennsy

    FRACKING-A.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:58 p.m. CST

    How did people determine THE HAITIAN's Ethnicity

    by George Newman

    when no one has heard him speak (besides Claire)?

  • April 30, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Peter is a badass

    by purplemonkeydw

    love that he threw that last guy against the wall, nice

  • April 30, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST

    SON OF A BITCH!

    by bigpth

    SON OF A BITCH!

  • April 30, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST

    More WTF moments per minute than any ep of 24...

    by Pennsy

    of the past 2 seasons.

  • April 30, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Just give him a NAME!!!!

    by George Newman

    GOD DANG IT

  • April 30, 2007, 9:01 p.m. CST

    jeebuS!!!!!

    by bigpth

    jeebuS!!!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:02 p.m. CST

    "Now the hard part."

    by Pennsy

    And the thrilling part, too.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:02 p.m. CST

    That Made Marvel Cry

    by Larry of Arabia

    I know I'm getting lost in a little hyperbole here, but don't the X-Men films suddenly seem much, much weaker in comparison? Civil War looks even sadder when, in an hour with characters only around for half a year, there is more emotion and detailed storytelling than they managed to do with characters that have been around for 50?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:03 p.m. CST

    that was the S H I T

    by bigpth

    that was the S H I T

  • April 30, 2007, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Nothing comes close to this...

    by Darth Valinorean

    EASILY one of the best episodes on TV of any series

  • April 30, 2007, 9:04 p.m. CST

    ugh

    by majortom25

    I really hope that hiro doesn't die in the season finally.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:05 p.m. CST

    That was completely........BADASS!!!!!!!!111

    by HavokJD

    That truly did make Marvel and DC cry. That's how to do it.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Comic book movies..

    by Darth Valinorean

    ... the only one that comes close to this level of on screen comic book emotion from us - the fans - might be Batman Begins and Superman: The Movie.. perhaps Spiderman ..nothign else... the XMen movies, Superman returns are giant flaming turds in comparison.. lets get real

  • April 30, 2007, 9:06 p.m. CST

    The Most Awsome Episode of "Wedding Crashers" Ever!

    by Larry of Arabia

    Buzzkill.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:06 p.m. CST

    OK now to go back and read all them posts...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...I'm dying to know what "damn you Womka!" was all about...

  • April 30, 2007, 9:07 p.m. CST

    unbelievable

    by Arashikage

    At first I was harping on the time continuity issues, but by episode's end, I don't care. That was just good fucking TV

  • April 30, 2007, 9:07 p.m. CST

    So...

    by Valebant

    is that comic Hiro killing Peter?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:08 p.m. CST

    WTF did Wonka do? He gave us a chocolate factory

    by Pennsy

    back in the day. ;) <p> Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:08 p.m. CST

    no sylar

    by majortom25

    Comic book hiro is killing sylar. See the hair on his face.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:09 p.m. CST

    ...and i'm gonna reads them out loud in funny voices...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...speaking of which, is'nt it funny how Masi speaks better English than James does Japanese?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Damn you, Onomaki Forp -- you were right.. [Spoiler]

    by Arguendo

    ... about Nathan/Sylar and how you shouldn't read posts -- you've doubly ruined the suprise!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:11 p.m. CST

    so sylar killed DL...

    by Arashikage

    I was just sitting here wondering why he was able to pull peter through the door, I couldn't remember who it was that had that ability, Then I remembered DL. I hope we see that killing... Micah too, little shit.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Syler/Peter

    by Larry of Arabia

    *Spoilerific* Even if Peter is the one that blew up Sylar didn't die in that timeline. In the "alternate" comic he does.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:11 p.m. CST

    *whimper*.... I just had to read.....

    by Russman

    and now I know I know the twist.... Aughhhhhhhhh!! I can't stop myself!!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:13 p.m. CST

    RE: Haitian's Ethnicity

    by The Letter Two

    George Newman, in "Company Man" in HRG's flashback they introduced the Haitian as a young boy and said they discovered him in Haiti. I think that's where they determined it.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Future Hiro

    by Alientoast

    "WHY IS FUTURE HIRO's MEMORY NOT CHANGED?" Because he probably is independent from the timelines, thus any changes can be noticed by him since he is basically separate from them. Such a kickass episode, although damn them for that damn tease of a showdown between Ultra Sylar and Badass Peter.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:16 p.m. CST

    I LIKE HOW THE "SPOILERS" HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH

    by brokenheadstuff

    THE ACTUAL EPISODE, WELL DONE! TOTALLY JUST ENOUGH TO THROW ME OFF WITHOUT MAKING IT OBVIOUS AND NOW I'LL TAke the caps lock off. good night.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Stupid DVR!!

    by hrivnak

    What the hell happened in the last 5 minutes or so? My DVR cut off right as Peter and Sylar started to fight in the hallway!!! I hate NBC running shows LONG!!! AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Heroes rules. 24 drools.

    by Pennsy

    Res-pect.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Wow

    by tbransonlives

    Really wow.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST

    fucking amazing

    by waggy

    i love this show so much. the office is the only other thing on tv that has me grinning stop to finish the way heroes does, and that was possibly the best episode yet. how the hell are they gonna top this in season 2????? this is just stating the obvious at this point, but tonight's episode was better than any season of lost.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST

    Valebant -- Same here

    by Arguendo

    I believe Kring if he says he hasn't read a comic book (or more if he says he doesn't read comic books) for the same reason, Vale. I love comic book stories, but not a huge fan of the medium. So I've watched the X-men cartoon, Diniverse cartoons faithfully and even researched the characters and associate characters and backstories online, but I've probably read about 5 actual comic books and only 2 graphic novels (although, Watchmen is one of them).

  • April 30, 2007, 9:19 p.m. CST

    I blew my load on that Sylar vs. Peter fight

    by JackBristow

    That was probably one of the top five television viewing experiences of my life. Goes along with the end of SD-6 in Alias, the Scott Norwood miss in Super Bowl XXV, Becoming Part II on Buffy, and the series finale of Angel. Lost has never had a episode like this. Same with 24.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:19 p.m. CST

    Does Mr. Brightside...

    by Arashikage

    Want to stop sylar? Seemed so in the previews when he was talking about the little girl, but I was under the impression that he worked for linderman.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Peter VS Syler

    by chavee

    My money's on Peter.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Um, about Marvel being first with this and that

    by Jack Parsons

    Marvel's writers hardly came up with Days of Future Past, registration of powers, mutants, and all that. Science fiction had it all decades before; Claremont is an SF afficienado and referenced Heinlein specifically in one issue that I recall. Y'all are just a bit young and haven't read the source material for all this. SF did it first, then Marvel took those ideas, and then anime took Marvel's ideas. We're so far away from the original sources that anime fans think that THEY are reading the source and everyone else is copying their fiction. Oy.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Yeah, but how did Parkman take to saying "The Haitian"?

    by George Newman

    The Company knows he's Haitian. But Parkman was calling him Haitian back in Episode 3. Others have said it too. But you can't just look at a person and know his/her ethnicity.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Future Hiro

    by Jor-El23

    I'm unclear on why he couldn't go back in time himself and fix everything. Still though, completely bad-ass episode. JESUS! Way better than X-men 3, although that's not saying much. I know they're ripping off X-Men storylines left and right but I don't care. We'll never see those in movies anyway because Fox screwed the pooch. So all you haters, shut up.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Sylar's Freezing Powers...

    by Arguendo

    ... why have we never seen Sylar use his freezing powers? Didn't he totally freeze the family in episode 1 (or 2 or whichever that was)?<br><br> I'm glad they brought it back (if only vaguely) in this episode...

  • April 30, 2007, 9:25 p.m. CST

    Maybe the Haitian...

    by Arguendo

    walks around thinking "I'm Haitian. I'm Haitian. I'm Haitian." and Matt's range is just a bit longer than his...

  • April 30, 2007, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Patience?

    by hrivnak

    ARGH! I know I can watch it tomorrow, but this is so frustrating. You watch an hour of a show only to miss the last 2-3 minutes and everybody's raving about how awesome it was!! Damn you NBC!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:28 p.m. CST

    hrivnak -- don't worry about it..

    by Arguendo

    I don't think the last 2 - 3 minutes is where it's all at -- and Peter v Sylar didn't really appear onscreen.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:29 p.m. CST

    "I'm Haitian. I'm Haitian. I'm Haitian."

    by Arashikage

    That's fucking hilarious

  • April 30, 2007, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Hrivnak

    by George Newman

    Nothing special happened in the closing seconds. They don't show Peter and Sylar fight. You just see flashes of color around the door frame and Suresh tries to keep it closed. Hiro and Ando go back to the present. The end.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:31 p.m. CST

    arguendo

    by waggy

    i like your hatian explanation and have decided to take it as fact. now tell me why future hiro can't kill sylar, because that's bugging me now that i read the above comment.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Jor-El23

    by ediblebuddha

    In the online comic book Hiro mentions something about knowing that he couldn't save the cheerleader, but someone from that time could. But it doesn't say why he knows it.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:37 p.m. CST

    I hate to admit this ...

    by Itchy

    but I don't know what the hell The Watchment is. Is it a comic book ? Because I stopped reading those when I got my pubes and first kissed a girl. That being said, I don't really give a shit. If Heroes ripped it off then great - because Heroes kicks endless ass. I was skeptical at first, but this show has gotten better and better each week. It might be the most amazing first-year (end to end) of any tv show I've ever seen.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Should have been a two parter..

    by Ironmuskrat

    Great episode, but it felt a bit rushed. I would have liked to have seen more of the future fleshed out into two episodes. A lot of great moments and surprises I won't get into right now. By its nature, it hard to nit pick time travel episodes, you can try, but in the end your brain will just explode. I will point out one the things that drives me crazy about Heroes is the instant ability of characters to travel back and forth about the country(besides the heroes that actually have the power to do so). Matt flip flopping between New York and Texas is a prime example. I can't wait for the last three shows, I am curious to see if Hiro can do what he has to do in order to save the world.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Future Hiro can't change events in his past . . .

    by jocutus

    but his past self can change his past self's future. So by traveling into the future and getting some info, Future Hiro's past self (what we consider "Present" Hiro) can still prevent the bomb event because it hasn't happened for him yet. It's like quantum mechanics, right?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Hiro can't change whats already happend

    by tbransonlives

    Wasn't that the point of the waitress episode?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Will Ando die?

    by Memoryremain

    Peter said that when Ando died, that was when Future Hiro lost his optimism, his true self, and became the man he was. What if when Hiro faces off against Sylar, he still lacks control of his powers, gets his ass kicked, and is still too scared to fully take him? What would give Hiro that final push and edge needed to kill Sylar? Watching Sylar kill his best friend. It could be that Sylar does it in the heat of battle, or Ando remembers what Peter told him about Future Hiro, and he then willing makes the ultimate sacrifice by allowing himself to be killed by Sylar.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:41 p.m. CST

    waggy: Future Hiro killing Sylar...

    by Arguendo

    That's easy... you see, the plotlines will continue to unravel into an exciting and crazy tailspin, where it turns out that no matter what any of the heroes do, the world will become a dystopian apocalypse, and at the very end of the season in the last five minutes, as the fifty Hiros (pulled from different points in time) are simultaneously killed... Peter will finally absorb Suresh's power of breaking the fourth wall, read the talkbalks and go -- "Hiro, you idiot!" then teleport back to before Mohinder's father meets Sylar and kills him.<br><br> Oh, [SPOILER]!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Sylar fly

    by Alientoast

    "And I wonder what went through Sylar's mind as he made the decision to fly off on national television...how desperate was he?"...He probably figured that if he didn't stop Hiro from traveling back in time, then nothing would matter. Everything he had worked to create would be lost.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:44 p.m. CST

    TIME TRAVEL NEVER

    by adzigjo

    very good episode but anytime you deal with time travel youre gonna have a lot of stuff that doesnt work out

  • April 30, 2007, 9:45 p.m. CST

    recast Simone with Halle Berry!

    by Boomers_Lips

    now!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:52 p.m. CST

    so that's mohinder's power!

    by waggy

    does morgan freeman share this voiceover-enabling power?

  • April 30, 2007, 9:53 p.m. CST

    ahh...Valebant...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...it does my heart good to know there are other pedants who post on these threads, obsessives who find it necessary to explain things to an ignorant and uncaring audience with neither the attention span nor cognitive ability to even comprehend...I have not done this as much lately since I transmuted from a Prof to a Forp...but still the compulsion to teach...to get someone to learn something...anything...

  • April 30, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    Patrick Stewart should've been Linderman, not Sauron!

    by Boomers_Lips

    add Pat Stewart to the cast!

  • April 30, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    Sylar's flight

    by Valebant

    I don't think he could be concerned about Hiro undoing the past to change the future, unless some Langoliers are coming along after Hiro disappearing. I mean, if Hiro goes back, does it immediately change the reality of the future he just left? Or is there an alternate timeline? If so, Pres. Sylar can be happy in Evil Biff timeline and Hiro can do whatever he wants. However, what Pres. Sylar doesn't want is to be exposed by Peter Petrelli. He learns that for some reason Peter is back and Peter is bad news for Evil Biff future because Pres. Sylar killed Peter's brother. So... motives for flying aren't necessarily clear, but I think that works.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Sylar killed the Talk Soup guy.

    by Boomers_Lips

    i just saw it on his show.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Onomaki...

    by Valebant

    thanks, you made me laugh. I start practicing law this year, so that'll be me in court, "find[ing] it necessary to explain things to an ignorant and uncaring audience with neither the attention span nor cognitive ability to even comprehend" AKA six to twelve people who didn't get out of jury duty.

  • April 30, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST

    if you wanna talk about ripping off comics...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...what about Harry Potter and the Books of Magic? Tim Hunter even had a fricking owl for chrissakes! But what, Warners is gonna sue itself? Nope not gonna happen. (hey maybe that's why rowling signed with warners for the film adaptations in the first place? so she wouldn't get sued?)

  • April 30, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Omigod is this show better than Lost and 24!!

    by Pdorwick

    ...and now they introduce a Battlestar Galactica-level Iraq metaphor...<br><br>Simply incredible

  • April 30, 2007, 10:01 p.m. CST

    TV Land; yes, TV LAND, knew their shit...

    by Pennsy

    when they bestowed their 2007 Future Classic award on Heroes a few weeks ago at their TVLand Awards. Know their shit, I swear to gods. BSG is still the best show on TV, but Heroes is the most entertaining.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Jessica's power is that her other personalitys a bitch?

    by Boomers_Lips

    some power.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:10 p.m. CST

    PS - Claire is a Munchkin

    by Fish Tank

    If you have a thing for _little people_ with stunted arms and legs, then hey that's your thing. I'll admit she's cute as a button (up close), but she has some seriously stunted extremities.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:11 p.m. CST

    oh bacci beat me to it...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...on the Hunter/Potter thing. Notice how much Tim's appearance *changed* after Potter became a Warner's film franchise? (odd coincidence...Wendy's husband in Alan Moore's Lost Girls is named Harry Potter!!! was Jo Rowling reading Taboo back in the day???)

  • April 30, 2007, 10:15 p.m. CST

    By the glorious nipples of T'Pol

    by EvilWizardGlick

    That was a fine episode. <p> But what the fuck is up with the serious lack of throwdown action? Seeing a decent fight on heroes is like looking for a plot on Lost. <p> C'mon why couldn't we see one single decent Sylar Peter match? Sure we get taunted like hot teens at a car wash. <p> In the end nada. <p> Peter looked way cool with the scar and pretty Andy Lau bad assed in the long coat. Good look I hope stays. <p> Did Hiro claim to be a Battosai? Like Kenshin? Way cool.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:17 p.m. CST

    But Kurt Russell would smile back and give a thumbs up,

    by Pennsy

    pursued_by_bear. Even he would approve of tonight's episode.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:21 p.m. CST

    days of future past

    by johnnysunshine

    that was awesome.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:22 p.m. CST

    If Sylar has the fortune-telling ability...

    by Northridge

    Why didn't he foresee younger Hiro coming to the future? Hmmm?

  • April 30, 2007, 10:22 p.m. CST

    Nice. Ep.

    by chrth

    Can't believe I had to sleep through 24 first! One very important question:<p> How does Hiro killing Sylar prevent Peter from blowing up?

  • April 30, 2007, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Future Hiro Battosai?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Future Hiro claimed to be a Battosai master. Is that a nod to Rurouni Kenshin? Does that mean there will be some Meiji period pieces?

  • April 30, 2007, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Nice.

    by veritasses

    That was fun.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Cirth.

    by jerseycajun

    It won't stop Peter from blowing up. Hiro doesn't know that Sylar is actually Peter in disguise, which is why future Hiro's plan to 'save the cheerleader' didn't change things for the future. He thought that Sylar had Claire's power, but in essence, by telling Peter to save the Cheerleader, he prevents himself from being able to stop Peter from exploding. Ironic, no? What I want to know, is what is going to happen to get Peter to seemingly willingly blow up while appearing as Sylar (he needs first to have a run-in with Candice, and Sylar has to have a run-in with Candice afterwards in order for the continuity to be maintained).

  • April 30, 2007, 10:39 p.m. CST

    Hey Wonka I've been damned too!!!

    by Onomaki Forp

    Thanks Arguendo! Wonka since we is in hell now what level is you in? i'm up in the second circle with all the masturbators we's being watched by this enormous cat up in the ceiling...(although since my fellow Pope gave away Limbo (it now belongs to us Discordians (Hail Eris!)) is this level still the second?)

  • April 30, 2007, 10:40 p.m. CST

    My ass hurts

    by ATARI

    because Heroes kicked it so hard so many times tonight (I just finished watching it a second time to make sure it was as good as I thought it was -- and it was even better)<br><br> 3 more eps -- HOOT!!

  • April 30, 2007, 10:43 p.m. CST

    STUCK LIKE GLUE!!!

    by Mistahtibbs

    That's what I was for the entire episode. Damn, that was good. No. Scratch that. It was SUPERB! I don't think I've been that "Wowed" by an episode of TV since "The Shield" season 5 finale and the death of Lemanski. Oh and whoever wrote "I'm Haitian. I'm Haitian. I'm Haitian." You owe me a new pair of underwear and pants. I pissed myself laughing.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:47 p.m. CST

    George Newman

    by Onomaki Forp

    Sylar kept the Haitian around him whenever Parkman was near. Learned that trick from Bennett.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:53 p.m. CST

    Ando supposedly dies in the explosion...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...but, is there a charred corpse? Or does everybody just assume he's dead? Remember the awesome power of !Awesome!

  • April 30, 2007, 10:54 p.m. CST

    jerseycajun, what you said doesn't make sense

    by George Newman

    Assuming that you are speaking of the moment the city blows, Sylar is not "actually Peter in disguise." Sylar disguised as Nathan puts the BLAME on "Sylar". I guess Hiro does not see the actual explosion take place, which is why he believes the lie President Nathan/Sylar puts forth. I think you misinterpret the truth about Peter blowing up. I can't imagine that Peter would "frame" Sylar and blow up New York. From Future Peter's perspective, as shown in the episode, he thinks that Nathan uses "Sylar" as the scape goat to protect his brother.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:55 p.m. CST

    A NEW FRONT IN HEROES VS. LOST!!!

    by Raymar

    This Brunette Claire >>> their Brunette Claire by a slim margin!

  • April 30, 2007, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Raymar...

    by Arguendo

    The ">>>" makes it seem like "is much greater", but then you say "by a slim margin". Please clarify.

  • April 30, 2007, 10:58 p.m. CST

    The Jack Sack COWERS at the power of !AWESOME!

    by Pennsy

    'Nuff said.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:01 p.m. CST

    bacci40

    by Onomaki Forp

    yep, kinda what I figured. Always. Follow. The. Money.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:01 p.m. CST

    jerseycajun

    by NetProphet

    I got the impression that Candice's shapeshifting powers had nothing to do with people thinking Sylar was the one who went nuclear. When Peter was admitting he was at fault to Nikki/Jessica, I think he said Nathan came up with the cover-up story that it was Sylar who blew up. Makes sense, because if Nathan was actually Sylar in disguise at the time, he would want most people thinking that he (Sylar) had died after causing the disaster. Kind of like the others on Lost planting wreckage and bodies from flight 815 so that it would be "found" away from the island and no one would come looking for any survivors....

  • April 30, 2007, 11:02 p.m. CST

    What happened to Linderman?

    by Boondock Devil

    Unless I missed it, all I heard was something about the "Linderman Act". Not even a peep about him in Vegas. Still, this show makes me giddy watching it that it's a little sad.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:02 p.m. CST

    Heroes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lost.

    by Pennsy

    Now much greater than. :D

  • April 30, 2007, 11:02 p.m. CST

    George Newman

    by jerseycajun

    It has to be Peter disguised as Sylar, for multiple reasons. Hiro strikes with his sword at "Sylar" but he heals. Only Clair, Peter and Linderman can heal. We see in the future that Claire is still alive, therefore at the time of the bomb going off, Sylar cannot use Claire's ability to heal. That leaves Linderman or Peter, and only Peter can absorb the ability to look like someone else.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:04 p.m. CST

    Nathan/Sylar

    by Ironmuskrat

    It not clear in the episode when Sylar kills Nathan and takes his place. It would be possible that Nathan was still Nathan after Peter blows up New York. So it would make sense for Nathan to come up with a story to put the blame on Sylar in order to protect his brother and more importantly protect himself and his political career.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:05 p.m. CST

    The triple >s were just for clarity

    by Raymar

    but I guess it was the opposite. Was Linderman pulling the strings behind Pres. Sylar? Or was Linderman already disposed of by Homeland Security?

  • April 30, 2007, 11:05 p.m. CST

    FUCK YEAH!!!!

    by Bones

    Man. That was some good goddamn TV!!

  • April 30, 2007, 11:05 p.m. CST

    NetProphet

    by jerseycajun

    Except that Issac's comic clearly showed "Sylar" being stabbed by Hiro.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:12 p.m. CST

    Roboteer -- String Theory

    by Arguendo

    ... I'm not a "theoretical cosmologist", but my understanding is that string theory _is_ the theory with a significant number of dimensions (10, 11 or 26), depending upon the brand of string theory you're into.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Another half baked theory

    by br1947

    Hiro is Kenshin. Like Cmdr Sinclair/Valen in B5. Just a thought

  • April 30, 2007, 11:17 p.m. CST

    cookylamoo - That's ALMOST right...

    by OhioBobcat

    The thing is, Future Hiro has been working under the false assumption that Sylar exploded. That was a lie perpetuated by pre-death Nathan to protect Peter. Killing Sylar will stop President Sylar from ever happening, but not the explosion.<BR><BR>OR... Saving the cheerleader DID stop Sylar from exploding, but by the LOST theory, the universe course-corrected and Peter exploded instead. But since Nathan lied, everyone thinks it was Sylar and Future Hiro didn't know that Claire was saved.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:18 p.m. CST

    I would say I agree with jerseycajun...

    by Valebant

    because under my understanding of the past events of the future reality we just watched, Claire was not killed nor was Sylar. Further, Hiro had still attempted to kill Sylar but he regenerated, thus possibly Peter. However, Peter in the future reality we just watched has a serious scar. So, Claire was saved, but Peter did not regenerate from a wound. This does not make sense because Peter saved Claire. So... the only thing I know is that I don't know. Call me Descartes.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Everything old is new again...

    by Chriss

    To anyone complaining about how this has been done in x-men and blah blah... HELLO... registration of dangerous groups has been a recurring theme in both history and literature for thousands of years. Anyone remember that thing called nazi germany or the stories of the bible? The only thing different between the bible and the x-men is that bible-tards don't realize it's all a fantasy.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST

    Interesting point Valebant...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...what made Peter's scar? Hiro's sword?

  • April 30, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST

    Placing you all back in reality...

    by Chriss

    NBC dumps a bunch of cash into each episode as it is, and you want to see a choreographed F/X intensive fight scene? Bahaha... ain't going to happen. Especially since this is still first season. Be happy with what you get.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:24 p.m. CST

    To: Pursued_by_bear

    by Chriss

    "I wonder how Sylar killed Nathan. " (spoiler) Yummy brains. Syler gotta eat.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Anybody notice what Claire was serving in the diner?

    by Onomaki Forp

    Yep. Waffles.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Yeah....

    by Angry Mean Panda

    "Is it a comic book ? Because I stopped reading those when I got my pubes and first kissed a girl."...So you read comics until your mid-30's, is that what you're saying?

  • April 30, 2007, 11:37 p.m. CST

    Peter's Scar.

    by jerseycajun

    Could it be the one lasting effect of the explosion on him?

  • April 30, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Peter's scar

    by Valebant

    really can't be explained. Unless he chose to keep it. Reminder of what a bad person he was in killing .07% of the population of the world. Kind of emo, but he's like that.<p> Of course, it doesn't seem like regeneration is a conscious act... that makes it a weird power. The body wills itself back together even if your brain is off for several hours.

  • April 30, 2007, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Kaito, Simone, Charles, and Molly

    by Onomaki Forp

    OK I read the invisotext. These four have powers. One of them may be...Uluru. But who? Sulu?

  • April 30, 2007, 11:53 p.m. CST

    Molly is said to be able to kill Sylar...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...Sylar has her daddy's powers...I wonder what they are?

  • May 1, 2007, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Along with freezing...

    by Valebant

    What happened to Sylar's melting matter power?

  • May 1, 2007, 12:11 a.m. CST

    dumbass

    by slkboxrman

    whoever said to recast simone with halle berry.....we dont want ms. no talent saggy tits...the gal that plays simone now is hotter anyhow

  • May 1, 2007, 12:12 a.m. CST

    Maybe Molly

    by Valebant

    manipulates probability thus inexplicably stops Sylar but, as a side effect, creates this season of Lost and 24.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:22 a.m. CST

    One of the best hours of TV I've ever seen...

    by blackmantis

    Man did that kick unholy ass.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Hiro's powers include INTERDIMENSIONAL travel!!

    by George Newman

    errrr, its' only way to explain some of the problems in this ep. Don't get me wrong, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the show, but I wish that the writers would try harder in preserving the logic. But here is my best effort to try and explain what's goin' down. I think that this may actually be smarter than what Kring is doing. But maybe not. So, Interdimensional travel: Hiro travels to an alternate future in which Future Hiro is unsure of the success of the "Save the Cheerleader" mission. This Future Hiro has memory of a Dead Claire, but Present Hiro knows a Living Claire. Why does Future Hiro not have the Same Memory of Present Hiro? If Future Hiro is the future version of Present Hiro, wouldn't he have Present Hiro's memories? I guess not. Why? Well there are now THREE universes. Universe 3, which is the regular show, Universe 1 which Future Hiro is from, and Universe 2 which is the Universe THIS episode 20 is set in. Universe 1: Future Hiro travels to the past and tells Peter to save the cheerleader. This moment creates Universe 2, in which the Cheerleader is saved. Future Hiro then returns to what he thinks is his present(universe 1); it is still in ruins, seemingly unchanged. But then we find out that Claire IS alive. So this is Universe 3! An apocalyptic future in which Claire was saved (universe 1 she died) but the Heroes still failed preventing other things, like the explosion (I fully expect the Heroes to succeed by the end of this season, or the beginning of next, in Universe 2, the one the show follows). So why does Future Hiro have no memory of the Cheerleader being saved? This can only be explained the BACK TO THE FUTURE way, in which the time traveler is isolated from the changes. Marty's memory did not change when he made his parents cooler, etc. He retained his memories from his Universe 1, just like FUTURE HIRO retained his memory of dead Claire from Universe 1. SO IN CONCLUSION / SUMMARY Here is a breakdown of the universes and the pivotal moments. A) = saving Claire B) = preventing the explosion. x=failure, +=success Universe 1 A)x . B)x Universe 2 A)+ . B)x Universe 3 A)+ . B)+ (fingers crossed)

  • May 1, 2007, 12:42 a.m. CST

    Reprint of above

    by George Newman

    errrr, its' only way to explain some of the problems in this ep. Don't get me wrong, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the show, but I wish that the writers would try harder in preserving the logic. But here is my best effort to try and explain what's goin' down. I think that this may actually be smarter than what Kring is doing. But maybe not. So, Interdimensional travel: Hiro travels to an alternate future in which Future Hiro is unsure of the success of the "Save the Cheerleader" mission. This Future Hiro has memory of a Dead Claire, but Present Hiro knows a Living Claire. Why does Future Hiro not have the Same Memory of Present Hiro? If Future Hiro is the future version of Present Hiro, wouldn't he have Present Hiro's memories? I guess not. Why? Well there are now THREE universes. Universe 3, which is the regular show, Universe 1 which Future Hiro is from, and Universe 2 which is the Universe THIS episode 20 is set in. Universe 1: Future Hiro travels to the past and tells Peter to save the cheerleader. This moment creates Universe 2, in which the Cheerleader is saved. Future Hiro then returns to what he thinks is his present(universe 1); it is still in ruins, seemingly unchanged. But then we find out that Claire IS alive. So this is Universe 3! An apocalyptic future in which Claire was saved (universe 1 she died) but the Heroes still failed preventing other things, like the explosion (I fully expect the Heroes to succeed by the end of this season, or the beginning of next, in Universe 2, the one the show follows). So why does Future Hiro have no memory of the Cheerleader being saved? This can only be explained the BACK TO THE FUTURE way, in which the time traveler is isolated from the changes. Marty's memory did not change when he made his parents cooler, etc. He retained his memories from his Universe 1, just like FUTURE HIRO retained his memory of dead Claire from Universe 1. SO IN CONCLUSION / SUMMARY Here is a breakdown of the universes and the pivotal moments. [here is the "diagram" key] A) = saving Claire B) = preventing the explosion. x=failure, +=success Universe 1 A)x . B)x Universe 2 A)+ . B)x Universe 3 A)+ . B)+ (fingers crossed)

  • May 1, 2007, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Reprint of above

    by George Newman

    errrr, its' only way to explain some of the problems in this ep. Don't get me wrong, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the show, but I wish that the writers would try harder in preserving the logic. But here is my best effort to try and explain what's goin' down. I think that this may actually be smarter than what Kring is doing. But maybe not. <br/> . . . . . So, Interdimensional travel: Hiro travels to an alternate future in which Future Hiro is unsure of the success of the "Save the Cheerleader" mission. This Future Hiro has memory of a Dead Claire, but Present Hiro knows a Living Claire. Why does Future Hiro not have the Same Memory of Present Hiro? If Future Hiro is the future version of Present Hiro, wouldn't he have Present Hiro's memories? I guess not. Why? <br/> . . . . . Well there are now THREE universes. Universe 3, which is the regular show, Universe 1 which Future Hiro is from, and Universe 2 which is the Universe THIS episode 20 is set in. <br/> . . . . . Universe 1: Future Hiro travels to the past and tells Peter to save the cheerleader. This moment creates Universe 2, in which the Cheerleader is saved. Future Hiro then returns to what he thinks is his present(universe 1); it is still in ruins, seemingly unchanged. <br/> . . . . . But then we find out that Claire IS alive. So this is Universe 3! An apocalyptic future in which Claire was saved (universe 1 she died) but the Heroes still failed preventing other things, like the explosion (I fully expect the Heroes to succeed by the end of this season, or the beginning of next, in Universe 2, the one the show follows). <br/> . . . .. . So why does Future Hiro have no memory of the Cheerleader being saved? This can only be explained the BACK TO THE FUTURE way, in which the time traveler is isolated from the changes. Marty's memory did not change when he made his parents cooler, etc. He retained his memories from his Universe 1, just like FUTURE HIRO retained his memory of dead Claire from Universe 1. <br/> . . . . . SO IN CONCLUSION / SUMMARY Here is a breakdown of the universes and the pivotal moments. <br/> . . . . . [here is the "diagram" key] <br/> . . . . A) = saving Claire B) = preventing the explosion. <br/> . . . . x=failure, +=success <br/> . . . . Universe 1 A)x . B)x <br/> . . . . Universe 2 A)+ . B)x <br/> . . . . Universe 3 A)+ . B)+ (fingers crossed)

  • May 1, 2007, 12:50 a.m. CST

    TALKBACK HTML IS BROKE i hate you

    by George Newman

    I hate this garbage. it says that it will work, recognize line breaks and paragraphs automatically, but that is a bunch of crap. Previewing the post is about as close as I will get to seeing my post in true form.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:56 a.m. CST

    EmeraldBoy

    by MarkoOhNo

    "At what point will marvel unleash the leagal dogs?" Haven't you been watching?? Stan Lee made a cameo appearance. No way Marvel's gonna take any action against this show, unless Stan Lee is no longer affiliated with Marvel Comics. No. A show like this can only be good for them. People are watching who've probably never picked up a comic book in their lives, but are probably considering it now.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:05 a.m. CST

    "Best hour of TV ever"? Come on people...

    by HappyHamster

    Obviously a lot of very young people posting (or people who haven't watched much good TV), but this was a pretty decent episodes. The scene where Hiro and Peter storm the Presidential speech was obviously "inspired" by the original Matrix(where Neo and Trinity stormed the sky scraper killing uniformed soldiers to save Morpheus). Heck replace present-day Hero with Morpheus and mind-reading-dude for Agent Smith and the "parallels" go even farther.<p> Hmmm, maybe that's my problem with this show - there's not much interesting about this plot (or we've seen much of it in other productions) and the show lacks overall intensity. But that's fine...those parts don't have to be great necessarily. However a show about super Heroes needs consistently great special effects and this show always comes up short(sorry guys).Next season they need to give the show a bigger budget so that they can take the effects to the next level and make the show that much better. <p> In the meantime, I'll be watching mostly to scratch my geek itch (definitely has nothing to do with any inherent greatness of the show).

  • May 1, 2007, 1:10 a.m. CST

    d d d

    by George Newman

    d d d

  • May 1, 2007, 1:10 a.m. CST

    Peter/Syler fight: What was the big deal?

    by HappyHamster

    They didn't *show* anything. Syler went all Iceman with his hands, Peter flamed on, and then they preceded to have a monumental fight while the audience watched a gripping shot of Mohinder leaning against a door (the lights around the edges looked cool though). <p> THAT'S the problem with this show (the main one at least). As I said in my last post, they need to give this show a budget so that we can SEE Peter and Syler throw down next year. It's a show about super heroe - you can't do it on the cheap.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:11 a.m. CST

    Peter vs Sylar

    by david19

    My only guess is that Season finale will see the heroes banding together with a final confrontation culminating in a battle royale between Peter and Sylar. Sylar will be finished off by Hiro. Practically speaking I think because this is a first season show NBC has a budget for the show. Perhaps they will get a larger budget for S2 and well see a bit more action. But for now Im guessing that they will wait for the season finale to pull out all the stops. I would sure like to see Niki use her powers though...

  • May 1, 2007, 1:18 a.m. CST

    They are doing WAY TOO MUCH in the 1st season.

    by warp11

    Don't get wrong, I love the show, but it almost as if they are blowing through everything in the first season and not saving anything for the future. I really, hope they pull if off...

  • May 1, 2007, 1:20 a.m. CST

    Anyone read the Wired article? NBC just wanted a Lost.

    by warp11

    So NBC got their lost, but unlike what they are doing Lost by taking their time with the plot, on Hero's they put everything into the first season to try to win right away. I love Hero's, but I have serious doubts about its future. I hope I am wrong.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:21 a.m. CST

    READ this Post, ignore the above THREE of mine

    by George Newman

    <p> [Sorry for all the multiple posts but this thing is unreadable in single paragraph format] </p> <p>So, Interdimensional travel: Hiro travels to an alternate future in which Future Hiro is unsure of the success of the "Save the Cheerleader" mission. This Future Hiro has memory of a Dead Claire, but Present Hiro knows a Living Claire. Why does Future Hiro not have the Same Memory of Present Hiro? If Future Hiro is the future version of Present Hiro, wouldn't he have Present Hiro's memories? I guess not. Why?</p> <p>Well there are now THREE universes. Universe 3, which is the regular show, Universe 1 which Future Hiro is from, and Universe 2 which is the Universe THIS episode 20 is set in.</p> <p> Universe 1: Future Hiro travels to the past and tells Peter to save the cheerleader. This moment creates Universe 2, in which the Cheerleader is saved. Future Hiro then returns to what he thinks is his present(universe 1); it is still in ruins, seemingly unchanged. </p> <p> But then we find out that Claire IS alive. So this is Universe 3! An apocalyptic future in which Claire was saved (universe 1 she died) but the Heroes still failed preventing other things, like the explosion (I fully expect the Heroes to succeed by the end of this season, or the beginning of next, in Universe 2, the one the show follows). </p> <p> So why does Future Hiro have no memory of the Cheerleader being saved? This can only be explained the BACK TO THE FUTURE way, in which the time traveler is isolated from the changes. Marty's memory did not change when he made his parents cooler, etc. He retained his memories from his Universe 1, just like FUTURE HIRO retained his memory of dead Claire from Universe 1. </p> <p>SO IN CONCLUSION / SUMMARY Here is a breakdown of the universes and the pivotal moments. [here is the "diagram" key] </p> <p>A) = saving Claire B) = preventing the explosion. </p> <p> x=failure, +=success </p> <p>Universe 1 </p> <p>A)x . B)x </p> <p>Universe 2 </p> <p>A)+ . B)x </p> <p>Universe 3 </p> <p>A)+ . B)+ (fingers crossed) </p>

  • May 1, 2007, 1:33 a.m. CST

    HappyHamster

    by jimmy_009

    You are an idiot. They were teasing you with what may lay in store for these characters, i.e. super badass ultra powers. If it was up to you they would just skip ahead to the series finale and show everything. And this show must have a HUGE budget to pull off what they do every week, and this week in particular. Get a clue.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:36 a.m. CST

    Wow.. Cool Episode, however....

    by Russman

    The attack on homeland security was a missed opportunity to do some cool shit. Break it down.... We see Hiro slice two guys and Peter toss one person. So were the rest knocked out or killed off screen. I know they only have so much time and budget for an hour buuuuuutttt.... there was a missed opportunity to really do something amazing. Still love the show though.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Invisotext spoilers....

    by mrtwig48

    ....are for little kids and gays.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Kring doesn't know comics, but he hired people who do!

    by warp11

    Read the Wired article, he surrounded himself with writers from comics. Supposedly Kring keeps the show accessible while the former comic book writers make it cool for the fanboys.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:46 a.m. CST

    MarkoOhNo

    by Angry Mean Panda

    Obviously you missed that whole episode where Stan Lee and Marvel were embroiled in a legal battle over what amount of money he was owed because of the licensing of characters he created. Stan isn't a Marvel employee.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:47 a.m. CST

    Sylar went red, Peter went blue!

    by warp11

    Peter going blue or "cold" causes the EMP pulse. Sylar going red causes a nuclear explosion. I wonder if they equal each other out or something. errr....

  • May 1, 2007, 1:48 a.m. CST

    Future Sylar and Peter can never kill each other.

    by warp11

    Kinda like how Wolverine never dies, even if you burn off all his flesh. Sylar and Peter would have continued to just destroy each other who knows what else. Peter fucking rocked.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:49 a.m. CST

    It will be weird to see Peter go back to being nice

    by warp11

    next week... Peter > Neo. If they never let Peter really have a crazy fight scene, they should make a movie where he does.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:50 a.m. CST

    Futures and Futures

    by bluestrain

    Part of the time line trouble can be resolved if we imagine that when Hiro visits the future he is visiting a future where he has yet to visit the future (i.e. he needs to port back for the changes from his visiting the future to take place in the future). Of course there are still a ton things that still don't fit without alternate dimensions and such.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Continued destruction

    by Valebant

    I thought that was how The Matrix should have ended, Neo and Agent Smith duking it out for eternity, locked in eternal battle - eternal sacrifice. <p> And A.I. should have ended with the boy robot falling in the water and dying. The ultimate expression of sentience - nihilism/suicide. <p> Thinking about these two makes me hope that if they decide to do the Narn i Hîn Húrin, they do it right. (Also why Peter Jackson can't direct).

  • May 1, 2007, 2:01 a.m. CST

    ex-Dekker wants to be on HEROES again.

    by Boomers_Lips

    Dekker isn't on Heroes anymore, but I suppose he wants to restore his good name. And of course, like any intelligent actor, he chose to do so via his MySpace page. "I am truly sorry for what transpired on the series and who it has effected. I have been shown a lot of, to be blunt, hate mail directed at me and my manager for the way the character of Zach played out. I would like it to be known by everyone, that I have played a gay character three times before in my career, one when I was twelve (which is on youtube), one when I was fifteen, and another when I was seventeen. I, nor my management have ever had any kind of problem with creating a gay character. To me acting is about being prepared to play all kinds of roles and it is an honor and a challenge to portray ANYTHING that comes my way. What transpired on heroes is something far more complicated than anyone being "afraid" to make Zach homosexual. The character that I created in the beginning of the show, a process I take very seriously, was based on Zach being an outcast who had a burning love for Claire, a crush that drew him to her and effected every ounce of his self esteem around her. I created the character that way because it was WRITTEN IN THE ORIGINAL SCRIPT that he was in love with Claire."

  • May 1, 2007, 2:15 a.m. CST

    That Was Good Enough

    by topaz4206

    That Was Good Enough to be a finale for the ENTIRE SHOW...forever.<br><br>And yet it's not even the season finale! I love this show!

  • May 1, 2007, 2:20 a.m. CST

    AW CRAP.. . One Last time, sorry. Ignore others

    by George Newman

    <p>Ugh, Lots and lots of editing errors in the above posts. Don't read them, they will confuse even more... I wrote and rewrote this so much over the hours that I missed some things to go back and edit.</p> <p>So, Interdimensional travel: Hiro travels to an alternate future in which Future Hiro is unsure of the success of the "Save the Cheerleader" mission. This Future Hiro has memory of a Dead Claire, but Present Hiro knows a Living Claire. Why does Future Hiro not have the Same Memory of Present Hiro? If Future Hiro is the future version of Present Hiro, wouldn't he have Present Hiro's memories? I guess not. Why?</p> <p>Well there are now THREE universes. Universe 3, which is the regular show, Universe 1 which Future Hiro is from, and Universe 2 which is the Universe THIS episode 20 is set in.</p> <p>Universe 1: Future Hiro travels to the past and tells Peter to save the cheerleader. This moment creates Universe 2 (and 3), both in which the Cheerleader is saved. Future Hiro then returns to what he thinks is his present(universe 1); it is still in ruins, seemingly unchanged. </p> <p>But then we find out that Claire IS alive. So this is Universe 2! A future in which A) Claire was saved (universe 1 she died), but B) the Heroes still failed preventing other things, like the explosion (I fully expect the Heroes to succeed by the end of this season, or the beginning of next, in Universe 3, the one the show follows). </p> <p>So why does Future Hiro have no memory of the Cheerleader being saved? This can only be explained the BACK TO THE FUTURE way, in which the time traveler is isolated from the changes. Marty's memory did not change when he made his parents cooler, etc. He retained his memories from his Universe 1, just like FUTURE HIRO retained his memory of dead Claire from Universe 1. </p> <p>SO IN CONCLUSION / SUMMARY Here is a breakdown of the universes and the pivotal moments. </p> <p>Universe 1 </p> <p> A)Claire Dead. B)City exploded </p> <p>Universe 2 </p> <p> A)Claire Saved, B)City exploded. </p> <p>Universe 3 </p> <p>Claire saved B)City saved(fingers crossed) </p>

  • May 1, 2007, 2:58 a.m. CST

    great episode!!

    by BadMrWonka

    just phenomenal...I'm so glad they didn't try to string out the Sylar as Nathan thing over 2 episodes, when it was so obvious it was him.<p>I'm sarting to feel that the show is really starting to have a sense of what the audience is wanting, and giving it to them, but without giving them what they're expecting (if that makes sense). things get bigger, but there's still a teasing element. things get explained, but more questions pop up. new characters arrive, but not all the time. it's a really great balance, and it's what makes this show work so goddamn well.<p>a few of my thoughts:<p>Sylar said, "your brother betrayed us long before I kileld him" or something like that. implying that when peter went nuclear, it was still nathan, and that nathan blamed sylar to protect peter (as peter said/believes). sylar then obviously killed nathan, just to be in his position as president and have access to more info. the real question is, if sylar was not only president, but could make himself look like and sound like nathan, why couldn't he have found peter and killed him earlier? or did he try (not as nathan, but as sylar, since peter didn't seem to know it was him as nathan ["my brother can't go through walls, etc.]) and that's what got peter the scar? <p>as for hiro's time travel, I agree, there are questions, but I believe the biggest point is this: if Future Hiro could go anywhere and do anything, why not go kill Sylar as a 3 year old playing in the sandbox? I think the answer is because that would have happened before old Hiro ever came to america and set this stuff in motion. I think Future Hiro can only go back in time to points after he arrived, and probably can't interfere all that much (either for continuity reasons, or time travel logic constraint) and that's why he interfered so slightly (it really was slightly, if you think about it) in the first place on the subway. <p>but I think that we'll find there's more to it than that. what was one of the big things that kept us guessing early on? when Hiro said to Peter, "you look different without your scar". we were all fascinated with how he would get it, and then later, how he would retain it. but why would Hiro say it? it stands to reason that in the reality Hiro came from, peter had the scar, and in that same reality, he didn't think peter had caused the explosion. so the scar can't be from the explosion ("dude, where'd you get that huge gash in yor regenerating head? oh, I cut myself shaving..."). so that means peter gets the scar in another way, and it's unrelated to the explosion (or not directly related). but also, if future Hiro's past was the same as we saw present Hiro's future to be, then he would have a memory of seeing peter without his scar, right? what if in the alternate timeline, he never met peter, and future hiro's meddling in the subway was the only reason that peter met hiro? then wouldn't the future be MUCH different? <p>ando was right, I'm confused. Damn you Wonka!

  • May 1, 2007, 3:39 a.m. CST

    So who did sylar get the blue power off?

    by kingoflight

    Peter went red not blue, which contradicts the hero colour chart normally good guys are blue/green like starwars lightsabers. Anyway, remember the chick that hiro liked in the diner/where i sware future claire is no working. Does sylar not have her power? I would have thought he would have been the mac daddy of all heroes by now. I would have brain sucked heroes for five years straight seen as i had a company working on there capture etc. Also we are gagging to see what he does to take a persons power as well, i bet he eats a certain part of the brain. Just to clear up everyones over complicated future theroy which is pretty simple, In the first timeline the cheerleader was killed and sylar got her power so when hiro is ment to kill him he does not. I am guessing they expect him as dead yet he body doubles nathan and thats the future timeline. Now seen as they saved claire lets hope everything goes acording to the origanal timeline and he kills sylar. My predictions is the stop the bomb but something else take is a threat.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:44 a.m. CST

    Brunette Claire >>> anybody's Blonde Claire

    by Napoleon Park

    The endless gripes about Kring never reading comics reminds me of an older story. Late '70s, Bill Mantlo and Michael Golden got tapped to turn a toy line called Micronauts into a comic book series. The black-armored, helmeted, caped villain Baron Karza is absolute monarch and the various heroe sare a rag-tag bunch of rebels assembled to try to overthrow the dictatorship. When the question of derivation came up in the letters column, Mantlo flat out said he had never seen Star Wars. *** All due respect, Mr Bad Wonka, but when someone writes "damn you wonka" and you assume they're talking about you, that's like Madonna suing the Madonna jewelry company, like she forgot where she got the name and really thought she was THE Madonna. *** We have a nice loyal patriotic group here. I like how they associate rounding a group up and putting them in prison camps to the Nazis. Didn't we do the same with the Japanese during World War II? Well, not the extermination part... *** I lack the memory to quote best lines from tonights episode because there were so many. *** Still... This version of best show episode really got off to a slow start over the first 5-8 episodes or so. And tonight's best episode of a show ever really was great while it was on... and then once you really try to analyze the time paradoxes, it's all "wait a minute, what?" *** Top flite entertainment, though. But "Lost" is deeper and takes itself more seriously. *** I will say, though, that as hot as Blonde Donna on "That '70s Show" was, Brunette Claire on "Heroes" is way hotter. I mean, I realize they changed her make-up to make her look older, but Brunette Clairebear rules.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:50 a.m. CST

    "What's it Called?"

    by Napoleon Park

    "Wrong Title". You stole that joke from when Alan Moore's "Big Numbers" used to be called "The Mandelbrot Set". See, everything is stolen from Alan Moore. Captain Marvel is totally a ripoff of Miracleman and the Question on JLU is totally Rorshach. (Have you heard about that novel "Raw Shark"? In Watchmen someone refers to Rorshach as "Raw Shark", so that's something else stolen from Watchmen, and yet a bunch of so called literate literary reviewers think it's an original pun (those who actually get that it's a joke) and don't know where it was stolen from. Alan Moore knows the score. Now when's the Halo Jones movie coming out?

  • May 1, 2007, 3:59 a.m. CST

    Is Issac still alive?

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    Did Hiro and Ando return to the exact moment from which they originally left? Does this mean that Sylar has yet to kill Issac?

  • May 1, 2007, 4 a.m. CST

    Another theory...

    by FriedGold35

    I've just spent the last half hour trying to figure out a way for Sylar to have survived into the "future" that we saw without healing powers and/or for there to be a way for Claire and Peter to be alive in that future. I'm stumped. Sylar kills Claire for her power in the future, meaning he didn't have the healing ability before. Then how did he survive the explosion/Hiro's stab wound? I just don't see a way for there to have EVER been a reality where Sylar survived without killing Claire or Peter before the explosion. Even though Future Hiro might be subject to the "Back to the Future" time travel theory, it doesn't explain why Mohinder remembers Peter getting the "Save the Cheerleader" message. If that's the future we're presented, I see no way in which it makes sense. That being said, I love the show and if anyone can explain themselves out of this, they can.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:19 a.m. CST

    Isaac is dead

    by Valebant

    He was screwing up the show's writing. Better to have an open future, better to leave the suspense device behind and come up with a new one.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:43 a.m. CST

    Also

    by Napoleon Park

    "Skizz" was "ET", "DR & Quinch" were "OC and Stiggs" and "The Bojeffries Saga" was "The Addam's Family". And did you kids know that before Alan Moore scripted Rob Liefield's "Supreme", there was a similar character called Superman"? Look it up at the liberry. The more you know...

  • May 1, 2007, 5:36 a.m. CST

    Hiro gave Peter the scar.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    That was a sword scar on Peters face. Hiro possibly slipped, or through manipulation lured into attacking Peter. <p> Someone explain why the Haitians power didn't suppress Parkmans when they were the same room with Hiro?

  • May 1, 2007, 5:37 a.m. CST

    Napoleon...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...do you rilly think pursued by bear was damning the roald dahl character? and not complaining about a certain youtube link posted by a certain talkbacker? and we knows mister moore uses source material...likes he made up all them people in league of extraordinary gentlemen...

  • May 1, 2007, 5:42 a.m. CST

    doth protest too much

    by The Selecter

    Ripoff or not, that was a good hour of TV. Brunette > blonde. President Sylar. By comparison, a resurrected Secretary Toonces pales.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:47 a.m. CST

    FriedGold35

    by Arguendo

    Future Hiro's past (or memories at least) is separate from the five-years in the future future. That would probably explain most of your discrepancies. Also past Hiro's future may be separate from the five-years in the future future. It may not explain the time travel logic, but you can look to other posts for that...

  • May 1, 2007, 5:49 a.m. CST

    i don't watch 24...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...so i had to google "Secretary Toonces" to find out what you were talking about Selecter. I had hoped it would actually be a cat...too bad this secretary didn't go through a billboard of Cliff Richard on the way down...

  • May 1, 2007, 5:54 a.m. CST

    Re: FriedGold

    by Oozer3993

    That's not actually Sylar who blows up. That's Peter after absorbing Missytique Peregrym's morphing ability. Hence Peter saying "I killed Micah" and Sylar saying "You and I are the only ones who know the truth." Peter has the healing ability from doing the whole saving the cheerleader bit, so he survives his own explosion. Sylar is apparently somewhere other than New York at the time.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:58 a.m. CST

    maybe a future chrth...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...from a time after the kid's all grown up and moved out of the house (unless geek genes means he will be living in chrth's basement until he's in his forties) could come back and explain all the tangled time travel theories postulated on this thread...I mean how many versions of George Newman's formulae can one read through before your head implodes? Leaving a great concave suck where your face used to be...?

  • May 1, 2007, 6:06 a.m. CST

    a disclaimer...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...i'm sure chrth himself realises this, but "I mean no disrespect to chrth, chrth's kid, chrth's basement, anyone who may or may not actually live in the same, and to geeks and their genetic codes in my last post"

  • May 1, 2007, 6:21 a.m. CST

    Time paradox

    by Napoleon Park

    I got one of those "lost child" advertiser postcards with the missing kid and his abductee pictured on one side. The boy was let's say named Bud Smithman, and he was fifteen years old. But the only confirmed information they had was from a doctors appointment when he was three, so it said he was three feet tall and weighed thirty six pounds. And his abductor was Bud Smithman, aged fifty and he looked like an older version of the kid. Obvious his father, but with the 50 year old Bud kidnapping the 15 year old Bud with the 3 year old description, I began to wonder if the grown-up Bud had traveled forward in time to kidnap his younger self and take him back 35 years into the past so he could grow up to kidnap himself. And, yeah, my head did blow up a little. {Not to be facetious and make light of parental kidnappings, but it was a petty weird concept.) [As for damning Willy Wonka, I know a lot of people who really hated that remake. Well, just one, and he didn't see it, but he hated Burton's "Planet of the Apes" so much that he just assumes he'd hate Burton's Wonka movie.]

  • May 1, 2007, 6:24 a.m. CST

    If you're still there jerseycajun

    by NetProphet

    I had to go to sleep - but in response to your last post, you clearly missed the point of the whole "save the cheerleader" arc. The reason the comic book shows Hiro stabbing Sylar is because he did stab Sylar (NOT Peter disguised as Sylar). The reason Sylar healed was that in the original timeline he was successful in killing Claire and absorbing her power. Thus, Future Hiro journeyed back in time and told Peter to save Claire so that when he does stab Sylar he won't heal. As was explained in last night's episode, that is why the message was SAVE THE CHEERLEADER, SAVE THE WORLD.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:25 a.m. CST

    YouTube: " Video results for 'mr.badwonka'"

    by Napoleon Park

    "Did you mean: mr.badonka? No Videos found for 'mr.badwonka'" ----- Okay, so what's it all about? And did he kill a goat at a Sony company picnic two months ago?

  • May 1, 2007, 6:31 a.m. CST

    Greg Grunberg should play a bad guy more often

    by wackedfuck

    Because he's actually quite good at it. That whole nice guy thing is boring. It was more fun seeing him play a total asshole.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:46 a.m. CST

    nice disclaimer Onomaki Forp....

    by just pillow talk

    And BadMrWonka, I would think Hiro could have just got back in time (at least 5 yrs ago of course) and just killed Sylar when he was on the shitter, a la Scott Evil's plan to kill Austin Powers to his Daddy, Dr. Evil. Hiro can even use Scotty's gun.<p>And I agree, I think Parkman as a bad guy really worked. I'm thinking that Pete left that scar intentionally as some sort of reminder.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:47 a.m. CST

    oh, and Greg nailed that weight watcher commercial

    by just pillow talk

    Atta boy Greg!

  • May 1, 2007, 6:47 a.m. CST

    a dark, but simple answer...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...there is only one timeline. Linderman, Nathan, and Angela convince Peter to blow-up for the greater good. They know Peter will survive the explosion. They have Peter meet Candace so he can impersonate Sylar, who will be blamed for the disaster. Hiro attacks Peter believing him to be Sylar - thus when he sees Peter regenerate he thinks it's Sylar. Claire has disappeared, having gone into hiding... but Hiro doesn't realise this. He concludes that Sylar must have killed Claire and taken her powers. Sylar who can eavesdrop on everybody from miles away, and who thanks to Charlie is a cognitive genius, carefully selects his victims - Candace, Angela, and then Nathan, putting himself in position to manipulate everybody else. He realises the importance of Future Hiro's mission and has the Haitian remove whatever bits of Hiro's memories that would prevent him from believing that Claire died on homecoming. This would not be terribly difficult to do because Hiro would be in an emotionally vulnerable state after the death of Ando. He probably doesn't even realise he gave Peter the scar. The Haitian complies with Sylar because he still thinks his orders are coming from Angela, to whom he is profoundly loyal. He doesn't realise it's Sylar because he can only dampen powers if he deliberately does so, it's not automatic, but he has become arrogant and thinks he can't be fooled. He is a plaything in Sylar's hands...as are all the other characters. This scenario allows everything we have seen on the show to exist in one coherent timeline. But if they actually went this way it would really suck... cause everybody would be doomed, except for Peter and Sylar who would like be locked in an eternal battle trying to destroy each other, but only succeeding in destroying everything and everybody else.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:58 a.m. CST

    Napoleon, sorry for the confusion...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...at 2:47:45 PM BadMrWonka posted a link to a clip with a spoiler for the ep. The link was a tinyurl and I didn't bother going to it as by the time I went back and read all the posts the ep had already aired. I foolishly made an ass out of you and me by assuming it was a clip on the YouTube. It was in fact a much better looking TMZ clip. I never meant to imply that BadMrWonka posted any clips on YouTube or anywhere else - - merely that he linked to one.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:13 a.m. CST

    cognitive genius...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...actually he's a bit more than that...Charlie's power + Issac's power = precognitive genius...

  • May 1, 2007, 7:14 a.m. CST

    NetProphet

    by jerseycajun

    Then why would Peter remember being the exploding man - which he confesses to Nikki? And we know that in the timeline he returns to after giving Peter the warning in the Subway, things have changed (Claire is alive) but NY is still devastated. Issac's comic of Hiro stabbing Sylar still exists in this timeline, Sylar still exists and Claire is still alive. These things can't all exist in the same timeline unless it's really Peter being stabbed by Hiro (even if Hiro's memory is that of the "observer" who would remember both timelines).

  • May 1, 2007, 7:25 a.m. CST

    also Napoleon at 6:27:44 PM...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...pursued_by_bear acknowledges BadMrWonka re: his damning of him. So BMW is hardly like Madonna... (if he was he'd a been damned a long time before this)

  • May 1, 2007, 7:28 a.m. CST

    The Scar, the Swap, the Comic, and the fight

    by chrth

    The Scar: As I've said multiple times, scars are not a result of the injury process, they are the result of the healing process. If an injury never heals, it will never scar. If Peter had to pull his face back together, he might not have had the time to make sure the edges lined up perfectly to heal. So the scar does not contradict his healing power.<p> The Swap: If they're going to pin it on Sylar, 'they' must've thought Sylar was in the area of the blast. However, obviously Nathan wasn't in the area of the blast since he concocted blaming Sylar. So my guess is that Sylar had already killed Nathan, was in the area but was able to fly out ahead of the blast. That's the 'tightest' explanation.<p> The Comic: Isaac told us that he had shown everyone how to stop Sylar. Here's the catch: the comic wasn't going to be published before the blast, so the only way to get the comic to them was via Hiro travelling to the future (otherwise Sylar would've gotten a hold of it). However, until Hiro went back to the past with the comic book, the 'dark' future would still exist. That was the step Future Hiro was missing in his plans (and also why he didn't remember travelling to the future himself -- in the initial Future Hiro timeline, he never went forward).<p> The fight: The battle isn't a never-ending one, because Claire's power isn't perfect, all it takes is a rod into the brain. Peter would have the advantage for a few reasons: one, he would have any power Sylar has, while Sylar is limited to what he's already collected. Two, Peter has already experienced the 'brain pierce' death, but Sylar hasn't, so Peter just needs to lure Sylar into a trap where he can be incapacitated. Sylar's advantages are that he's more experienced being evil, and Peter's recklessness.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:33 a.m. CST

    To chrth

    by wackedfuck

    And then they have to burn Sylar's body. We can't have some butthead removing the object from his brain and bringing him back to life, now can we?

  • May 1, 2007, 7:41 a.m. CST

    The Scar, the Swap, the Comic, and the fight

    by chrth

    The Scar: As I've said multiple times, scars are not a result of the injury process, they are the result of the healing process. If an injury never heals, it will never scar. If Peter had to pull his face back together, he might not have had the time to make sure the edges lined up perfectly to heal. So the scar does not contradict his healing power.<p> The Swap: If they're going to pin it on Sylar, 'they' must've thought Sylar was in the area of the blast. However, obviously Nathan wasn't in the area of the blast since he concocted blaming Sylar. So my guess is that Sylar had already killed Nathan, was in the area but was able to fly out ahead of the blast. That's the 'tightest' explanation.<p> The Comic: Isaac told us that he had shown everyone how to stop Sylar. Here's the catch: the comic wasn't going to be published before the blast, so the only way to get the comic to them was via Hiro travelling to the future (otherwise Sylar would've gotten a hold of it). However, until Hiro went back to the past with the comic book, the 'dark' future would still exist. That was the step Future Hiro was missing in his plans (and also why he didn't remember travelling to the future himself -- in the initial Future Hiro timeline, he never went forward).<p> The fight: The battle isn't a never-ending one, because Claire's power isn't perfect, all it takes is a rod into the brain. Peter would have the advantage for a few reasons: one, he would have any power Sylar has, while Sylar is limited to what he's already collected. Two, Peter has already experienced the 'brain pierce' death, but Sylar hasn't, so Peter just needs to lure Sylar into a trap where he can be incapacitated. Sylar's advantages are that he's more experienced being evil, and Peter's recklessness.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:42 a.m. CST

    Damn good show!

    by tanks1

    I wish this was on cable, so the budget would be larger. But, damn good show!!! X-men copy? yes, but I don't care.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Sorry for the double-post, and wackedfuck:

    by chrth

    Exactly, just like a vampire.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:55 a.m. CST

    People are wrong on so many levels...

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    Sylar can't always see future just because he wants to... just like Isaac couldnt. He had to wait for the feeling... then paint it.... then look at what he painting. How is Hiro going to kill Peter by mistake? Peter is going to make himself look like Sylar? Makes no sense... Sylar make himself look like Peter to confuse him? Also doesn't follow since based on yesterday he didn't get the cloaking girls ability until after it all went down... and after Peter was president for a few years. The Haitian can control which powers are blocked... which is why Matt could still use his. Sylar survived because he didn't blow up.. Peter did by copying blow up guys ability... Peter has the healing so he was able to come back. Then again why would he even need that ability? Why would radioactive man blow up? Does his hands burn to a crisp when he uses his power? So wouldnt he be unaffected, even if he blows everything up, because the power comes from him... I mean he may get hurt by the result, which if it is Peter the healing power would fix so maybe thats it... but I don't think its a matter of the person blowing up.. because why would they? It would more be a matter of the person going off like a bomb but being unharmed... but then the effect of that such as buildings falling and flying schrapnel, etc would kill him. Personally here is how I see it go Hiro kills Sylar, he is dead period, not around next year. Peter is the problem with the bomb though still... he can't calm down... until Claire calms him down. Claire saves the world because Claire is the only one who can get near Peter when he is at the point when he is about to "go off" because he is way to hot for anyone else to be able to get near.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:01 a.m. CST

    And another thing someone was wrong about

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    SYLAR DID WANT HIRO'S ABILITY. Thats why he didn't kill younger Hiro... because at that time the only Hiro in captivity was the younger one, so he wanted his power. Thats why when he was lost he was all pissed. I am not saying he didn't want Peters too... just saying it was pretty obvious the whole time he was after Hiro's. I think the Peter fight thing was because he knew he had to put Peter down to get to Hiro... and that Matt could probably take younger Hiro pretty easily now that Older Hiro was shot... so he took Peter out and told Matt to simply get the younger Hiro as it should be easy for him. I just thouth of something though that goes against my earlier post. Was older Hiro definitley dead? If not... maybe Sylar can steal power from him. Can he still maybe do it even if he is dead? Because then he can go back in time as well, and with all the powers he currently has, such as the chameleon one... so if its future Sylar hten he can make himself look like Peter... Hmm... Though I do think this is going to go the Buffy Route in a way... one big bad per season. Mixed with a little Angel lol... It will be one big bad per seasons with one HUGE bad in all the seasons (whatever that organization is that Mr. Bennet and Haitian work for being like the Wolfram & Hart) So I still think Sylar dies this year... or at least is assumed dead until later seasons.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Hey, i *want* my single timeline theory disproved...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...it's pretty depressing and all. Can someone a bit smarter than YIG have a go...?

  • May 1, 2007, 8:10 a.m. CST

    Cap'n Jack

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    I dunno from what I thought the only reason that Sylar as Linderman wants the heroes all eradicated was so he would be able to take over the world and no one would have the power to stop him... Which is why he flipped out when Hiro escaped... because that might mean he woudlnt even get to the point he was currently at. But once heroes were gone... Jack would probably get all Hitler like... well technically what he wants to do is Hitler like So how is that saving the world?

  • May 1, 2007, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Well jerseycajun

    by NetProphet

    I'll admit the time travel paradox thing sets up some conundrums, including Claire still being alive (although Hiro obviously thought she was dead), but it still doesn't support your assumption of Peter in disguise. <p> First off, ask yourself, what would the point of Peter masquerading as Sylar be? Anyone standing close enough to have personally identified Peter (or Sylar for that matter) as the cause of the explosion would have been annihilated anyway. As I said before, this leaves the ability for Nathan to blame Sylar, while in fact he actually is Sylar and throwing off anybody who might be looking for him. Furthermore, Isaac's paintings clearly show, as Peter himself acknowledged, that Peter looks like Peter when he explodes. Lastly, wouldn't future Peter have simply told present Hiro when he saw him "when you see Sylar in NYC the day after the election, don't stab him because it's really me." Or even more simply, after being stabbed, wouldn't Peter have just healed himself and said "hey Hiro -it's me, Peter."

  • May 1, 2007, 8:19 a.m. CST

    There will be no bomb

    by DrSpine

    My prediction: The Heroes find a way to stop New York from being destroyed. The "future" is erased and there is a small teaser about season 2 in the Finale. We will be starting a completely different arc next season. Mark my words.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Charlies power?

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    I thought she died from the brain thing... a natural death... They assumed it was Sylar but it wasn't. Thats what I saw. Because for being a cognitive genius he sure does alot of stupid things.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:22 a.m. CST

    Charlies power?

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    I thought she died from the brain thing... a natural death... They assumed it was Sylar but it wasn't. Thats what I saw. Because for being a cognitive genius he sure does alot of stupid things.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:25 a.m. CST

    YIG: No, Sylar still got her

    by chrth

    They show him learning how to drive a truck or something in one of the graphic novels using her power.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:26 a.m. CST

    something wrong at nbc, please help

    by leesheri

    stupid thing is labeled "Five years...blah" and is playing the episode from last week. Does anyone know where else I can watch it?

  • May 1, 2007, 8:32 a.m. CST

    leesheri: I see what you mean

    by chrth

    They might still be loading it up though, because when I first clicked on Part 6, it didn't change to .07% (it showed a placeholder for a commercial and then a placeholder for the show and then 'replay video'). I'd say give it a half hour and try again.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:34 a.m. CST

    thanks chrth

    by leesheri

    Happy to see it wasn't only me playing the role of dumb blond again. I tried itunes too and they don't have it up yet. Guess I have to be patient.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:36 a.m. CST

    the trouble with Sylar...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...please remember Sylar's own native ability is an intuitive skill to see and manipulate patterns in complex systems. Add Charlie's eidetic memory and Isaac's precognition and the fucker is damn near omniscient. Yeah Isaac wasn't so good at using his power...but look how good Brian Davis was at TK compared to Sylar in a very short time. Sylar's intuitive aptitude enables him to use powers more efficiently than the originals... and his socialpathology allows him to use those powers without any inhibitions or constraints. Plus we still don't know all his powers. He got TK from Davis, cryokenisis *possibly* from the guy in Chicago. Eidetic memory from Charlie. Super hearing from Dale Smither. Liquification from Zane Taylor. He's killed two other victims from whom he took brains... James Walker, and an unnamed person in Barstow. He only takes brains from empowered people, thus Jackie Wilcox never had her brain removed. So Sylar must have at least two as yet unidentified abilities. Dude's a bad motherfucker. Peter is potentially more powerfull in that he can access the abilities of anyone he's ever met...BUT, his empathic powers which allow him to do this are also a liability. His powers are based on his emotional reactions to people...they are thus inherently unstable. Plus the fact that Peter is a genuinely decent human being disables him from going beyond the constraints of social conditioning as Sylar does.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:40 a.m. CST

    Jerseycajun

    by Arashikage

    "It has to be Peter disguised as Sylar" I think you may be right that it was peter diguised as sylar when Hiro stabs him. But not when Peter blows up. There wouldn't need to be a disguise, anybody that was close enough to witness the explosion would be dead.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:45 a.m. CST

    I meant sociopathology, not socialpathology...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...the bastard is pretty damn antisocial though.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:49 a.m. CST

    leesheri: I think it's up now

    by chrth

    <nt>

  • May 1, 2007, 8:50 a.m. CST

    Claire wouldnt be dead...

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    There wouldn't need to be a disguise, anybody that was close enough to witness the explosion would be dead. - Not Claire.. and I think thats how she ties in. The graphic novel... is that an online one or an actual novel in comic stores? I still say he may not have the powers. Maybe he just memorized it good lol. Maybe his ability to see how things tick applies to everything, the heroes powers and machines as well... so he just knows how to operate the truck or whatever and they are trying to fool you into thinking he got the memory from Claire. I mean did they specifically say that in the writing like "Sylar stole the power from Claire" or was it done mostly with drawing. The thing with Peter and Sylar.. wouldnt it not matter if Sylar had more powers? Whatever powers he has Peter can just steal from him. Didn't he do that in Isaac's apartment for a bit when he threw him across the room or something, because where did he get that power from if not Sylar himself?

  • May 1, 2007, 8:51 a.m. CST

    ...although I think they might be having issues

    by chrth

    <nt>

  • May 1, 2007, 8:54 a.m. CST

    This show needs to end now!

    by Mr. Profit

    Just so that they can use the budget to make a fucking "Heroes" movie. Last night was the best episode of the series so far. I didn't anticipate the twist with Nathan because he has always been kinda douchebaggy. When Sylar killed Claire I was pissed. They need to send that girl to fight training so that she can use her powers in a more active way.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:54 a.m. CST

    My bad not claire

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    Charlie... Claire woudl survive the blast and thats may be how she saves world... that she can get that close and calm Peter down... but for the rest of my post replaiice "Claire" with "Charlie" in regards to the memory thing.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Anyone know where I can watch next week's trailer?

    by chrth

    I don't see it on the NBC.com site

  • May 1, 2007, 8:58 a.m. CST

    Mr. Profit: I said the same thing yesterday (in rl)

    by chrth

    Is there any way this show will be as good next season? Somehow I doubt it. Cancel it now, we'll always have the badassery of season one.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:59 a.m. CST

    And time travel always fucks with my head so...

    by Mr. Profit

    That's why I try not to get to focused on it. I still to this day try to make some sort of logic of the time travel in the "Terminator" series.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:02 a.m. CST

    YIG: It's an online comic, iirc

    by chrth

    And they show Sylar reading the truck's instruction manual to learn how to drive it, which is why everyone thinks it's Charlie's power (her power was more photographic memory than figuring things out)

  • May 1, 2007, 9:04 a.m. CST

    leesheri: Five Years Gone is now on iTunes

    by chrth

    How come one of the pics on the official site calls it String Theory?

  • May 1, 2007, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah, and why does Herc call it String Theory too?

    by chrth

    Must've been a last-minute change to the title.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Don't worry about next year...

    by biggles2_22

    Have the creators let you down yet? Have a little faith. I see so much more potential with this series (aside from Hiro, which while I like his character, he needs to go as his power is too god-like) than other series (Lost and 24 come to mind). The stories can remain fresh and new characters can be introduced with relative ease (Hello, Nikki & Paulo!).

  • May 1, 2007, 9:09 a.m. CST

    chrth I'm serious...

    by Mr. Profit

    They should buck the trend and end this show NOW and invest in Heroes movies. NBC/Universal/GE can afford to throw money at them to make a bad ass Heroes movie. The reason why I enjoy the show but don't obsess over it is because we need more Heroes doing heroic things and actually fighting. Even last night (which was great) was a huge fucking tease. I just think the budget for this show is too small for the potential it has.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:12 a.m. CST

    And I think....

    by Mr. Profit

    That Sylar's Mom this week will actually turn out to be Candace in disguise in an attempt to contain Sylar again. It just seems so odd to me that he'd go visit his Mom in the 3rd to last episode of the season. Maybe this is where he kills her and gets her power setting the stage for Sylar to go buckwild with changing his appearance to trap other heroes and ultimately get his way.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:16 a.m. CST

    Mr. Profit: I'm serious too, there's just one problem

    by chrth

    A popular TV show, especially among the geek set, can make more money than a movie. Between the advertising, the tie-ins, and the DVD sales, I'm going to bet they'll milk this stone until it's dry.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:18 a.m. CST

    But is memorizing a instruction manual...

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    Automatically mean you can do it immediately with relative ease? I don't think so.... especially somethign as complex as a truck or whatever... I mean if you NEVER drove a car in your life and you memorized the manual... Im pretty sure right of the bat you will be a pretty crappy driver still trying to put what you read to work.... Whereas if your power was knowing how thigns work... yea he might still glance at the instruction manual by habit... or similar to how he looks at peoples powers before taking them... I just don't see how memorizing something automatically makes you be able to immediately apply what you learned in the real world with no problems. I mean how many people know how to set something up and still have problems.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:23 a.m. CST

    They'll milk it until there is a Heroes backlash...

    by Mr. Profit

    And people start dickriding another hot new show. "Heroes aint shit compared to (Insert New Hot Geek Show Name Here)!" By then it will be too fucking late for a successful movie. And you'll have hardcore geeks still obsessed over the show after it's eventual cancellation who claim that the Heroes Spin Off Movie titled "Tranquility" will be the next X2. And when it crashes and fails at the BO they will get a reality check. Wait, did something like this happen before?

  • May 1, 2007, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Playkins sylar-ized?

    by DarkCable

    "yeah, sure. Because someone held a gun to your head and FORCED you to see them all. Statements like that sound almost incomprehensibly stupid. Stop going to movies/websites about movies/watching TV if it's so damn 'painful' for you. " by Playkins Apr 30th, 2007 Playkins were you sylar-ized? The lack of brains in that post is amazing. I mean, I did not even complain about being forced to watch crap. I was just stating that is was in fact crap. Last time I checked "talkbacks" allowed opinions/viewpoints. I am sorry if my words offended you. Please go back to playing with your Michael Bay dolls...

  • May 1, 2007, 9:30 a.m. CST

    Peters Scar...

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    Doesn't mean he can't heal... Peter had to have met Claire, because he saved her. So if he didn't meet Claire, Claire would be dead...

  • May 1, 2007, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Sylar killed DL, but

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Peter said his brother couldn't walk through walls. <p> Sylar did. <p> Sylar killed DL. <p> Sylar said Candace helped him get elected. <p> Hiro said he only needed the ones he brought HRG, Candace, Molly and DL. <p> Peter said he was responsible for DL and Micahs death. <p> If Sylar absorbed DL and Candaces powers, how could Hiro have brought them to HRG to hide? How could Peter think he got DL and Micah killed ( except as a part of the explosion). <p> At some point Sylar meets DL. In Peters vision Nikki, DL and Micah are all together watching Peter. <p> For Sylar to meet Candace she has to be in NY with Linderman. <p> Sylar would need to kill Candace first absorb her power then kill DL and finally Nathan as he stands with Peter just before he goes off. <p> But them how could Hiro have saved them? <p> There was no mention of Ted. <p> Possibly it's Ted who explodes and Peter can not stop. <p> Thus making Peter Responsible.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:38 a.m. CST

    I need to go sleep now...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...cuz if I stay around...I will try to explain things to YIG ala Valebant, or me when I was Ikamono...YIG ya aint no snake god no matter what your initials are. Hey chrth bet you know what sleep deprivation is nowadays, right? By the way I never said congrats before...So congrats! Kid will probably grow up to rule us all.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:41 a.m. CST

    EWG you scare me...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...that fits in all too well with my Sylar manipulates Hiro, Peter, and everybody into bringing about the desired end scenario.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Holy Fucking Shit...

    by jalfredprufrock

    Last night was the first episode I'd watched. I always thought Heroes was going to be some poorly written Generation X retread. This was better than 99% of the comic movies we've seen... and the tease of the Peter/Syler fight - Good Lord I cant' wait till this hits DVD.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:48 a.m. CST

    Can a tease happen after the actual fight?

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    Because how is that a tease? Lol technically we will have to wait 5 years for that particular fight, and thats only if everything that lead to that point isnt stopped.... Unless you meant a tease for a fight in general between them which is kinda funny calling it a tease then for something that happened before it lol.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Prof: Nah, I'm still sleeping well

    by chrth

    Scion hasn't arrived yet (although it is any moment now, wife hit 39 weeks today) ;)

  • May 1, 2007, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Teasing

    by Mr. Profit

    It's like they show u a little bit of what you want to see then they either end it abruptly (Sylar stabbing Pete in the head with glass) or fuck with you by showing it offscreen (Last night). This show can sometimes be one huge cocktease. They know the fans want to see some Heroes Kickassery so they give us tiny bits of it. Hopefully they will show a whole lot more. But again I fear that the show's budget will prevent them from doing so.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:06 a.m. CST

    YouIgnorantGeeks

    by INWOsuxRED

    I've been saying all along that Sylar would appear to die this season and show up possibly for the 2nd season finale. Stealing future hiro's dying brain would be a good way to make that happen, even if time travel is illogical.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:07 a.m. CST

    the scar?

    by INWOsuxRED

    could it be an injury caused by, or near, the Hatian? If his powers are being messed with, who knows how he would heal.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:12 a.m. CST

    chrth...I thought I saw a post where you announced...

    by Onomaki Forp

    Optimus' birth...must've been from future chrth...

  • May 1, 2007, 10:17 a.m. CST

    No way would it be an eternal fight

    by INWOsuxRED

    If Sylar's melting power works on people, he could just turn Peter into goo. He probably wants Peter's brain too much to think that logically though. Peter should be able to do the same if he knows he can do it. Peter could just freeze time and jab a spike into Sylar's brain. If Peter took the haitian's power, he could take away all of sylar's powers and kill him any number of ways. Did Peter also come into contact with subliminal girl? We know that power worked on Sylar too. There might be some flash to it at first, but one of them should be smart enough to go for a logical kill, and it shouldn't take them long to figure that out.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:17 a.m. CST

    ...cat won't let me sleep...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...she threatens to knock my precious artifacts off shelves if i don't stay up and play with her...my dirty pictures...religious objects...

  • May 1, 2007, 10:17 a.m. CST

    Everett Robert: copyright law

    by mbeemer

    "Someone above was talking about copyright law. If you can't sue for a basic idea, how then did Harlen Ellison (who I love) get money off Cameron for Terminator."<p><p>You should google this - there are as many opinions on the specifics as their are posters. I do believe that Ellison had a witness to Cameron admitting that he'd used Ellison's stories as source material. That apparently made defending the suit hard enough that they settled and attached the "Acknowledments to the works of Harlan Ellison" credit to the movie.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:19 a.m. CST

    GreatOne2: Why do people think...

    by mbeemer

    ...Why do people think Sylar killed Mohinder's father?<p><p>That's never been confirmed.<p><p>They showed a dream/flashback that Mohinder had of his father getting his head slammed against the window of his cab by his passenger. The passenger was not shown, but he was wearing Silar's watch.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:21 a.m. CST

    lawsuits

    by INWOsuxRED

    settling a lawsuit doesn't mean the suit had any merit at all, it just means that the defendant decided it would probably be cheaper and less of a hassle to settle than it would be to litigate.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:21 a.m. CST

    captboulder: Matt a bigger badass...

    by mbeemer

    Matt a bigger badass than even Future!Hiro!<p><p>Fuck that asshole was owning everybody in this episode!"<p><p>Except that he never recognized that Silar was impersonating Nathan in however-long-that-was, and didn't pick up that Mohinder was going to go rogue.<p><p>Not only was he a dick, he was a chump!

  • May 1, 2007, 10:26 a.m. CST

    YouIgnorantGeeks

    by jalfredprufrock

    I felt it was a tease as the fight was offscreen. I'm assuming (hoping, really) that we get to see a full on Peter/Sylar rumble later on.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Heroes is the TV show most worthy of a Series Finale...

    by Brother Desmond

    On the big screen. 2 hours and $200 million budget for a July 4th opening. Everything gets wrapped up or they leave it open for future movies.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Matt a badass??

    by biggles2_22

    More like a bigger DUMB-Ass! Could the guy (chandler) BE more wrong about everything and every turn?! I find his character more of an annoying schlub TRYING to be a badass.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:38 a.m. CST

    WOW! Some of the inconsistencies

    by leesheri

    That was so awesome! Felt tears coming for todays Hiro (being beaten), but was too busy enjoying the episode! The acting was so much better in this episode. Everyone was so intense! The guy that plays Hiro deserves mad props for his performance. One minute he is a soft and squishy and the next he was Mr.Badass<BR>Inconsistencies: looks like HRG thought he could trust Matt, but in reality Matt turned on him. Could also be that Sylar took the power of another (more powerful) mind reader. That would explain why Matt couldn't read his mind, and how Sylar would get the information from Matt. The latter one makes more sense.<BR> Thanks again chrth. Especially because you posted it in the subject.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:41 a.m. CST

    What if Linderman heals Sylar and makes him President

    by NetProphet

    It bugs me that Future Hiro thinks "save the cheerleader, save the world" will change the past, yet Claire is alive in his future anyway (although he clearly thinks she is dead with HRG keeping her hidden and supporting that idea). But what if Hiro only makes the assumption that Sylar had absorbed Claire's powers and must have killed her accordingly. Imagine that in reality Hiro delivers the "death blow" to Sylar, only to have Linderman secretly heal him. Then Linderman makes the deal with Sylar to replace Nathan, who didn't want to go along with Linderman's plans in the first place. By the way, Linderman was notably absent in the future scenes...

  • May 1, 2007, 10:46 a.m. CST

    future sylar/ future hiro

    by BLWiseass

    spoiler warning so what is going to stop future sylar from opening the now deceased future hiro's brain, thus enabling future sylar to travel back to the past to prevent present hiro from killing present sylar

  • May 1, 2007, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Peter's Scar

    by _Maltheus_

    <p>Peter didn't save Claire in the future time line (and never got her power) or the Haitian prevented him from healing at some point. If it's the former, then his post-explosion survival could be explained by some sort of Hiro time travel thing. And Claire's survival could be explained by her healing powers. She's in hiding, Hiro thought she was dead, therefore he was erroneous in his believing that saving her would save the world. Perhaps the cops arrived before Sylar could suck her brains.</p> <p>I don't know why some of you would want to cancel this show. Even if season 2 isn't as good, I doubt it'll suck. And movies? Come on. When has a TV show ever resulted in good movies? Movies suck. TV is great. The only reason people think otherwise are Hollywood snobs who attach a premium to the format. A season long arc provides a far better medium for storytelling.</p>

  • May 1, 2007, 10:56 a.m. CST

    otaku are notoriously shy around girls...

    by Onomaki Forp

    there's even a male virgin club http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/news/20070201p2g00m0dm010000c.html fill the gaps (heh, heh, heh)

  • May 1, 2007, 10:57 a.m. CST

    An expanded version of this episode...

    by Zarles

    ...is what X3 SHOULD have been like.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:03 a.m. CST

    As Linderman is not a congressman...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...Linderman Act has the sound of a Memorial to it...Like those laws named after murdered children...

  • May 1, 2007, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Future Hiro

    by Jor-El23

    was giving orders to people when he traveled back in time. He gave orders to Peter to save Claire because that's part of what he figured out would stop the blast. He didn't know about killing Sylar at that time. So Future Hiro tells Present Hiro that he has to travel back and kill Sylar. In the future we saw last night Sylar didn't kill Claire so he didn't have her power, but it would have mattered because Present Hiro never killed, since he didn't know he had to.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:18 a.m. CST

    of course you might be shy around girls too...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...if girls argued about comics like these two do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDQ5sCFwqHA

  • May 1, 2007, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Nathan and Sylar

    by leesheri

    Didn't Sylar say at some point that Nathan told the world that Sylar was the one that caused the explosion? That would explain why Sylar would go after Nathan in the first place. Then Sylar saw where this guy was going and took his place. The most powerful man in the world.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:27 a.m. CST

    The way to stop the explosion

    by tomdpimp2k

    Think about the episode where Claire stopped Ted from going meltdown. She gave him a strong tranquilizer. Here is my theory. Ted, Matt and Bennett will get into a fight with Linderman, Micah and company. Linderman will trick Nathan and Peter to come for help. Peter will absorb Ted's power but will be overcharged from too many heroes in one place. Only Claire can get to him to disable him. Think about Peter's vision. Claire is running toward him. He sees Simone. (Grief and anger when he sees Issac grab her) The anger about Simone's death will trigger an overload. Only Nathan and Claire can help him. Nathan will either have to fly him out of NYC or get Claire close to him. I suspect Ando will die trying to fight Sylar. Perhaps he will trick Sylar that he is Hiro.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:28 a.m. CST

    leesheri; Sylar knew re pic in previous episode.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Sylar knew he was going to be pres as Nathan. He painted the pic illustrating that after killing Isaac.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:30 a.m. CST

    Hiro saves Isaac and Simone.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Both isaac and Simone are in Peters vision. Hiro saves them both when he returns to the present.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:32 a.m. CST

    On-Line Comic

    by bythehairofsanjaya

    The On-In comic shows Future Hiro and Peter springing Nikki from Prison. Only as they are about to escape some white dude levitating and with lightening in his fists and a flying black girl stop them just outside the gate. Hmmmmm.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:39 a.m. CST

    One Timeline

    by History101

    I like that there are not pushing alternative timelines, other dimensions, etc on us. ONE timeline. They fail or succeed. Unless the Bomb is stopped there are no more visits from Future Hiro. The consequences are real. What we know for sure Future Hiro experienced: Originally. Sylar kills Claire. Isaac’s paintings reveal exploding man. Hiro figures out it is him, tries to stop him and fails. Teleports out at the explosion. Ando dies. America responds with Hate, he and others are hunted. Peter works with him. Nathan is president. Parkman is homeland security. What was changed? Peter saved Claire. Peter blew up. Sylar had to hide until he finds Claire. Parkman knows about Claire. Uses HRG to protect Janice and Matthew. HRG turns in Hiro/Ando when he realizes they know about Claire. Up in the air. Does Sylar take Nathan’s persona in the original timeline?

  • May 1, 2007, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Present Hiro killing Sylar

    by Jor-El23

    I want to know how that will change things, since Peter is the one who blows up NYC.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:54 a.m. CST

    A wrong theory

    by bluestrain

    Here is a wrong explanation that ties things EWG points. It is possible that after the explosion peter was out of it( he was in an explosion after all). During this time normal people are flipping out, thus making heroes concerned. Candace, DL, and company may appear to have died during the explosion (perhaps just like claire) because they take up a "get hidden" that Hiro gives them (an offer originated by real nathan through HRG). Sylar somehow gets in the loop and proceeds to kill all the mutants Nathan has been hiding with the help of HRG (including candace which allows him to take over Nathans position as pres). This would explain peter thinking he killed them all in the explosion (because like with claire he didn't know they went into hiding and were subsequently killed by Sylar).

  • May 1, 2007, 11:57 a.m. CST

    Maybe Sylar studied Clairs brain, then put it back.

    by somethingsomething

    Not sure why he would do so, but maybe he learned her ability, then put her brain back in her head. If she could get speared through the head and regen I don't see why her brain wouldn't heal if it was put back in her skull.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:58 a.m. CST

    the only think we know for sure

    by BadMrWonka

    is that we don't know much for sure.<p>one thing people HAVE to stop the conjecture on is the events of the presidency and the explosion. we don't know why, or how it all got started, but we can say for certian, according to what Sylar, Peter and Niro said, that this is true: Peter blew up NYC, when he did it, Nathan was president, or going to be president, Nathan took office, and was presiding when the explosion happened, and he blamed Sylar. sylar killed candace, and then nathan, and took nathan's place. <p>no more conjecture on when sylar was nathan, it's the least of our theoretical problems at this point. here's what we gotta figure out:<p>when future Hiro came back from his subway trip, (even though it "happened" a while ago for us, presumably he got back to isaac's and found ando and hiro there right after he got back? maybe?) most of the reality he left was the same, even though his conversation with peter on the subway, presumably, must have really changed the ensuing events. in what way does that inform the notion of time travel they are using/will end up using? <p>what was preventing Hiro from going back and killing Sylar as a child? I posed that it was because he couldn't go back to any point earlier than when he got his powers (like you can't travel back in time to before a time machine is invented, in some theories of time travel). but why can't he go get sylar before he even gets any powers? future hiro and his badass sword skills can handle a disgruntled clockmaker with no superpowers besides having awesome bangs.<p>if peter blew up all those people, thinking it was going to do some good, and then it just made shit horrible, how did he live with himself for 5 years? just hiding, stealing people's drinks, and watching nikkesica strip then sucking her face?<p>and once sylar became nathan, why didn't he just call up peter to have dinner with him and the haitian, then put him in a cage he couldn't get out of?<p>damn you Wonka!

  • May 1, 2007, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Nathan wasn't president

    by Jor-El23

    when NYC blew up. The explosion happens the day after the election.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Jor-El

    by Leopold Scotch

    One theory is that, because in the future Sylar was publicly blamed for the exlosion, Hiro falsely believes that killing Sylar will prevent the bomb. Since only Peter and Sylar know that it was really Peter who caused the explosion (though Nathan covered it up by blaming Sylar to protect his career and family), Hiro is trying to stop Sylar by mistake.<br><br>As for the timeline theories, they have made me cross-eyed, since there are so many inconsitencies. But they're not just from this episode. For example, when we first saw future Hiro, and he told Peter to save the cheerleader, this would surely be a paradox because if saving the cheerleader actually altered the future in any way, the chain of events leading up to future Hiro concluding that he must go back would not occur. But at the same time, we can't say that Hiro cannot alter the past, because future Hiro just about told present Hiro that when he was five years younger, he never travelled to the future to experience what present Hiro is currently experiencing. Therefore something has changed. But to avoid plotholes, the only thing we can say is that Hiro exists independently of the timelines, so when he alters the past, his form of existence, and his memories are not altered. After all, if this was the case, future Hiro would insantly change the moment he meets past Hiro, because he would suddenly remember having the experience that his past self is currently having. This isn't the case though, is it?

  • May 1, 2007, 12:09 p.m. CST

    promo vids for next episodes online! spoilerific!

    by BadMrWonka

    do NOT go see these unless you like spoilers. let's just say the next episode promises to take us a hell of a lot closer to the big bada boom then we thought...<p>http://tinyurl.com/24cxga <p>Damn you Wonka, indeed...

  • May 1, 2007, 12:10 p.m. CST

    tinyurls are being cut up now?

    by BadMrWonka

    sheesh...<p>oh, and the canadian promo has some seriously weird implications.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:10 p.m. CST

    BadMrWonka

    by bluestrain

    I thought Nathan was running for congress, so how does he become president before the explosion? He doesn't have to be president to make up a lie about his brother. In the teaser for next week's episode is looks like Hiro is about the cut a pretty old school looking sylar up (e.g. maybe watch maker sylar). If Future Hiro even remembers going back in time then one needs to go with an alternate timeline theory or a somewhat self correcting timeline.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:13 p.m. CST

    BadMrWonka - Conjecture not allowed in talkback?

    by NetProphet

    If we stuck to facts, we would just wait for next weeks show, wouldn't we? That way none of us would be wrong, or have any fun with our crackpot theories. And speaking of wrong, your non-conjecture facts include Nathan being President or about to be at the time of the explosion. Considering he is presently running for Congress, it is clear that he runs for President a year or two after the explosion.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:14 p.m. CST

    The timeline theories

    by Jor-El23

    are definitely confusing. But since the episode was called String Theory I'm assuming there are multiple timelines/dimensions that are in play.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Damn, Wonka...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...those clips fall way too close to my as yet undisproven theory...Napoleon wasn't right about that God of War goat thing was he...?

  • May 1, 2007, 12:19 p.m. CST

    wait...those were YouTube clips...

    by Onomaki Forp

    See Napoleon! See...I was right! Just in the future...I must a got some repligin and tonics from chrth...

  • May 1, 2007, 12:20 p.m. CST

    netprophet

    by BadMrWonka

    my only point was that Nathan gets to the presidency as Nathan, not as Sylar (as people had been supposing). Sylar said in this episode something about Nathan betraying everyone before he killed him. <p>and I love conjecture, I never said otherwise, I just think that once something is set in virtual stone in the reality of the show, we gotta grasp it, hold it, flip it, rub it down, (oh no) and move on to the things that we don't know, and we can get our conjecture on. <p>remember when people were arguing about whether pixie chick killed herself, or sylar killed her? it's that all over again. some thing on the show are not debatable. that's all.<p>go watch the promos, brother.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:21 p.m. CST

    napolean and goats?

    by BadMrWonka

    you need some sleep, my friend...

  • May 1, 2007, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Jor-el23

    by Fount of Useless Info

    The episode was also (formerly) string theory because of the timeline made of strings. It was a play on words.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Nathan rounds them up Sylar eats their brains

    by bluestrain

    Its part 3. Part 1 was Mohinders father finds them sylar eats their brains. Part 2 was Mohinder finds them sylars eats them. Part 4 is sylar-nathan rounds them up and eats them himself.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Hiro confusion continued

    by Leopold Scotch

    Continuing from my last poast, in five years time, regardless of how everything is going, and whether or not the explosion occured and Sylar died, Hiro will have to do a Bill and Ted and say to himself "wait a minute: apparently I went back and told Peter to save the cheerleader. If I don't do this, then it will be disastrous." But according to the show, past Hiro and future Hiro don't seem to have this kind of connection. Either the writers have watered it all down to make it mainstream, or it's a lot more complex than I realise.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:32 p.m. CST

    No Napoleon Park said that "Damn you Wonka"...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...wasn't about you. SO I brought up the clip you linked to and said that's what pursued_by_bear was complaining about. (Not the Tim Burton movie as Napoleon thought!) Well then he goes to YouTube (because I said Youtube link, not having looked to see it was a TMZ clip Like I should have) and says he can't find any videos looking for mr. badwonka! Then he asked if you killed a goat at a Sony picnic a couple of months back - - a reference to an incident for a God of War II Playstation promo in Athens. Now that you have posted links to YouTube clips you made me right after all retroactively. SO I wondered if Napoleon might have similarly gotten it right ...but I think YOUR the ones whose right...I needs me sleeps.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:34 p.m. CST

    evil wizard - I forgot about that!

    by leesheri

    How could I forget that he could see the future, but he would still have needed to come across someone that could help him morph into someone else and a mind reader that is stronger than Matt in order to trick him. Sylar is one scary mofo! <BR> <BR> Now going to watch next weeks promo. Damn you Wonka! ;)

  • May 1, 2007, 12:34 p.m. CST

    nathan as president

    by tomdpimp2k

    Nathan gets elected to Congress before the bomb. He survives and uses the tragedy as a backdrop for his presidential run. Remember the episode was set five years in the future. He got elected in 2006 and the next presidential election is 2008. So the date was 2011 and he was in the middle of his first term. Sylar could have taken his place anytime during the past five years.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:38 p.m. CST

    2011? brrrr

    by Onomaki Forp

    Cuz we all know from reading The Invisibles (except for Kring who hasn't read any comics) what's gonna happen in 2012.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Onomaki, Napoleon and Wonka

    by Fount of Useless Info

    You're making this talkback as confusing as straightening out the Heroes timeline.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Read comics 30 and 31

    by bluestrain

    They answer a few of the questions floating around.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Sylar and Nathan and DL and Candace

    by chrth

    Here's what we know:<p> Sylar has Nathan's, DL's, and Candace's powers 5 years later.<p> DL and Candace were given to HRG by Hiro to hide, after the bomb.<p> Parkman and HRG have a deal where the powerful heroes are given up but the insignificant ones go into hiding. DL and Candace would not be considered insignificant, so HRG is covering his own tracks when he's refusing to help Hiro.<p> Sylar says Candace helped him become President.<p> So: Nathan comes up with the idea to blame the explosion on Sylar, believing Sylar died in the blast. Sylar didn't, but he went into hiding(?) at first since everyone thought he was dead. He then got on the trail of some of the people being turned over to Homeland Security (Nathan must've been pushing his agenda while still in Congress -- hence Sylar's comment about Nathan already going bad), and that's how he got to Candace and DL. Once he had Candace's powers, he went after Nathan.

  • May 1, 2007, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Candace

    by Jor-El23

    do we know who she is or was the name just mentioned last night along with Molly?

  • May 1, 2007, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Candace is the HOT "shape-changer"

    by chrth

    (actually, she's a light-bender, but the result is the same)

  • May 1, 2007, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Multiple timelines/universes is the only way to explain

    by George Newman

    <p> the "inconsistencies." The show has put forth at Least THREE Universes, according to String Theory interpretation. </p> <p> First there is the original universe, before any time travel took place. The following pivotal events take place: Event A) Claire dies, and Event B) the city is blown up. . . . . This original universe, UNIVERSE 1, is the one that Future Hiro comes from. He then travels to see Peter and deliver the message, which creates UNIVERSE 2. </p> <p>UNIVERSE 2 is a place in which the cheerleader is saved. It is the Universe that the show has followed up to this point. Episode 20 shows the future of Universe 2, in which the following pivotal events have taken place: A)Cheerleader was SAVED, but B)City still exploded. . . . Future Hiro and Present Hiro realize that saving A)the Cheerleader was not the solution to all their problems. So Present Hiro, with his new knowledge(although limited!), goes back to the present to set things into motion that will lead to a THIRD version of the future in which the following pivotal moments take place: A)Cheerleader saved (check!) and B) City saved. </p> <p> One thing that confused me at first in this episode was that Future Hiro did not know if the Cheerleader had been saved, while Present Hiro did know. But I understand now that this difference in memory is because Future Hiro's UNIVERSE 1 memory was still intact. It is obvious that time travel isolates the traveler from te changes in his surroundings. . . . ONE THING THOUGH is that Future Hiro thinks that he is still in UNIVERSE 1, but he is actually in UNIVERSE 2, which is why 1)Claire is alive, and 2)Mohinder remembers Peter telling him about a TimeTraveler on the train.</p> <One thing I can still not wrap my mind around is the reason behind Peter's scar in UNIVERSE 2. If he saved the Cheerleader (which is one of the conditions of UNIVERSE 2) then why does he have the UNIVERSE 1 scar that Future Hiro remembers? In UNIVERSE 1 Peter has a scar because he didn't Save the Cheerleader, because there was no Hiro to go back and tell him. But last night's episode, episode 20 takes place in future Universe 2. . . The only semi-satisfying explanation has been by those who say that maybe it happened while The Haitian deactivated Peter's powers at some point during the Five years. But oh well. </p> <p> Now one big problem facing Present Hiro is that he Thinks that Sylar is the source of the explosion, but it is Peter. Now it is possible that killing Sylar will prevent Peter from blowing up; maybe he will be spared some emotional trauma that led to the apocalyptic UNIVERSE 2 we saw last night. So killing Sylar COULD still prevent Peter from exploding, we just don't know. </p>

  • May 1, 2007, 12:56 p.m. CST

    George Newman

    by bluestrain

    One issue. In this case there should be two Hiro's in future universe 2. The one that is from universe 2 and the one from universe 1 that was "insulated in time". Otherwise what happens to the Hiro that was shaped by the events of universe 2?

  • May 1, 2007, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Just being the Devil's Advocate BadMrWonka

    by NetProphet

    But I got the impression that Sylar may have been lying, or at least exaggerating, about Nathan betraying Peter and everyone else. Sort of the old "goad-your-adversary-so-he-gets-mad-and-makes-a-mistake" routine. Also, with Nathan knowing about Linderman's plans and the .07% casulaty rate, the betrayal Sylar was talking about could be the failure to share that info and warn everyone. Ultimately, I think we'll see that Nate is a good person and that he'll be wracked with remorse after the election if he goes along with Linderman. Notably, after the explosion Sylar disappeared while Nathan propelled forward in his political career, with increasingly aggressive tactics. Given the painting Sylar made after he killed Isaac, it is clear that the plan/pre-ordainment for Sylar to take Nathan's place pre-dated the explosion. Under the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Sylar's disappearance coincided with his taking Nathan's place shortly after the explosion. <p> By the way, I don't think you can ever assume anything is cannonical and set in stone on these shows - didn't BSG make Cylons out of some people you already ruled out based on what you "knew" about Cylons?

  • May 1, 2007, 1:02 p.m. CST

    George Newman: I think you've got it

    by chrth

    That seems as good an explation as any (close to Back to the Future). Whether or not Future Hiro knows he's in Universe 2 is dependent upon whether he has spoken to Peter Petrelli since he has returned. It is possible he hasn't, otherwise he could have asked Peter point blank 'Was the cheerleader saved?' I think his lack of contact with Peter after travelling is why he does not know that the Cheerleader is saved (plus returning to the same future probably threw him for a loop as he would've expected a change).

  • May 1, 2007, 1:03 p.m. CST

    I say "at least Three" because there have been other..

    by George Newman

    <p>...changes that Hiro has made, but they are so inconsequential that they would only convolute the bigger picture explanations.</p> <p>If we want to get technical, Present Hiro created a new version of the universe when he went back in time to save Charlie. We can call it UNIVERSE 2A. The changes he made though were very incosequential though. Only people in the Diner would have an altered memory of Hiro being present as one of Charlie's friends. But in the end Hiro did not change anything, because Charlie still died at the hands of Sylar.</p>

  • May 1, 2007, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Oh, Fount...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...there has been confusion on this (and all) Talkbacks long before I came along...(Napoleon is just silly) and BadMrWonka (Damn him!) he's not confusing at all... (Imagine if you will Charlton Heston in animal skins crawling on a beach looking up at the remains of the Statue of Liberty...with an anguished cry he screams out "Damn You! Damn You Wonka! Damn You all to Hell!!!")

  • May 1, 2007, 1:08 p.m. CST

    However ...

    by chrth

    The problem with the multiple BTTF-style universe scenario is the Japanese Phrasebook. How did Hiro give it to Charlie if Charlie had had it before she met Hiro? In the multiple-universe scenario, that can't happen. Hmmmm...

  • May 1, 2007, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Way off topic here...even for me...

    by Onomaki Forp

    12 inch Lounge Lorne!!! Oooooohhh!!! Me wants!!! Me wants!!!

  • May 1, 2007, 1:19 p.m. CST

    The Fount of Useless Info's Unified Heroes Timeline/The

    by Fount of Useless Info

    Hopefully, this will work better than my unified Lost theory, which I scrapped after deciding that I don't have a clue what's going on.<P> So, originally, Sylar kills Claire, and can heal. Hiro attempts to kill him, but fails. Nathan is elected to Congress thanks to Linderman and the very next day, Peter explodes in downtown NY, because he met Ted and hasn't learned to control the power yet (after all, Ted just learned). Nathan, knowing that this is his chance, blames Sylar (a mutant serial-killer? The perfect scapegoat) and rallies the city around him and in a Rudy parallel uses this in his push to the White House. At this point, Sylar, Peter and Nathan (possibly plus Linderman)are the only ones with knowledge that Peter blew up, not Sylar. While in office (congress or president), Nathan ends up starting the program to track/detain mutants (ref. Sylar's comment that Nathan had already turned on his own kind). Hiro fights against this, along with Peter and a few others. Hiro eventually has HRG help hide DL, Candace, and Molly (do we know her power?). Sylar infiltrates and kills at least DL and Candace (how does he know?). He then snacks on the First Melon, which helps him with both learning to fly and using Candace's power to take Nathans place. Sylar then uses his newfound power (the non-mutant power of political power and knowledge) to keep getting more super brains to feed on. Hiro determines that to stop the bomb, Ando's death, the mutant catch and release program, and the rest of the dystopian future, he must kill Sylar before he explodes (too bad his intel was faulty). He considers killing Sylar on the toilet in his pre-power days, but determines that this would damage the space-time continuum (cf. his response to Ando last night). Instead, he alerts Peter (in the past) that Claire must be saved. Unfortunately, Peter let Real Time Hiro know, which alters his timeline, preventing him from killing Sylar (at least until Future Hiro tells him to) and therefore never letting Future Hiro know that Sylar's death doesn't change the big picture. <P> Assumptions:<P> 1. Anything that changes in the past due to time travel does not change in the memory of the time traveller. i.e. FH doesn't remember RT Hiro visiting himself, being involved in the attempt to save Claire, etc.<P> 2. The end is not inevitible. Things can change and we will not end up at the same end point regardless of route.<P> 3. There is only one timeline at a time, as opposed to an infinite number. There are an infinite number of possible timelines, with an infinite number of branch points, but as decisions are made and actions occur, the number decreases from infinity to 1 at any given point.<P> <P> Problems: <P> 1. How did Sylar know how to get to DL and Candace?<P> 2. People earlier said that Peter said, "I killed DL" in addition to Micah. Is that correct? I can't remember now and I can't check. If so, I don't see a good answer to that other than error by writers or Peter.<P> 3. If future Peter has now met and saved Claire, why does he have a scar. (I know some people have sort of addressed this)<P> 4. I have spent way too long thinking about this instead of working.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Multiple universes Hiro.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Hiro has at least four universes he has travelled in. <p> The original he started in. <p> The second is the very first time he went to the future and got the comic. <p> The third is the one created when he travelled back to warn peter. <p> The fourth was his return to the future. <p> The fifth will be his trip back. <p> In theory every time he uses his power he "ruptures" the timeline. <p> That said there could only be a single universe where each change to the present changes the future. Ando lives no more bad assed Hiro. <p> No one would ever know. <p> But if Hiro actually dimension hops that adds a whole new subplot, a Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline sometime in the future of the show.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Fount: Not too shabby

    by chrth

    Answer to: How did Sylar know how to get to DL and Candace?<p> See my above post, specifically "Parkman and HRG have a deal where the powerful heroes are given up but the insignificant ones go into hiding. DL and Candace would not be considered insignificant, so HRG is covering his own tracks when he's refusing to help Hiro" ... so DL and Candace were given up, and thus Sylar could get to them.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Theory

    by Fount of Useless Info

    The last word of my post title is "theory".<P> Stupid character limits.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:25 p.m. CST

    The problem is ...

    by chrth

    You really need a Visio document to create a theory for Hiro. And we can't upload posts to Talkbacks. However, maybe I'll make one and upload it to an imaging site and post the link.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:26 p.m. CST

    That should read 'upload files'

    by chrth

    <nt>

  • May 1, 2007, 1:26 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by Fount of Useless Info

    Right, but HRG wouldn't give them up to Sylar and if Sylar didn't kill Candace yet, he can't be pretending to be Nathan. Darn chickens and their eggs.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Thanks, Bluestrain.

    by George Newman

    <p>Sadly though, that is probably the show's fault, just like the possible inconsistencies/problems with A) Peter's scar, and B)Sylar still being alive even though 1-Cheerleader was saved and 2-Hiro stabbed him. </p> <p> The Sylar thing is tricky though. In UNIVERSE 1, Hiro stabs Sylar but he regenerates. It is apparent that in UNIVERSE 2, Sylar did not get Claire's powers before the explosion. So, if we are to assume that events in UNIVERSE 2 transpired similarly to UNIVERSE 1 what happened when UNIVERSE 2 Hiro stabs Sylar? It would not stop the explosion, because obviously it was Peter, but how did Sylar survive and go into hiding? The wound most not have been fatal, or else he could not have gone on to be President Nathan in disguise. </p> <p> So yeah, there should have been Three Hiros at the time of the episode in UNIVERSE 2. We COULD suppose that UNIVERSE 2 Hiro was traveling through time to tell Peter "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World," which fulfills the need for Peter of episode 4 to always be told the message. . . . This occurance is possible because the the most recent comic shows Future Hiro returning to UNIVERSE 2 at a moment very close the time he left. So UNIVERSE 2 Hiro has left, delivered his message, and (by this String Theory logic) may have returned to a UNIVERSE 4. Now don't go blow your brains, I'll explain in a sec. </p>

  • May 1, 2007, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Crisis on Infinite Future Past!

    by redfang

    As several people have pointed out, Future-Syler could eat Future-Hiro's brain, gain his power, and time-travel back to stop Present-Hiro. However, note that Future-Peter already has Hiro's powers, and could therefore follow F-S back in time. Meaning that the big final fight could possibly involve *two* Sylers vs. *two* Peters. Kickass enough for you? Sadly, I doubt this will actually happen.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Thanks Fount! You were more thorough than I was willing

    by George Newman

    You were much more thorough than I was willing to be, explaining every single plot point, etc.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Next season

    by Jor-El23

    Didn't we hear about how next season would be a whole new chapter with mostly different characters? Or was that rescinded at a later date?

  • May 1, 2007, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Star Wars Colors

    by jimbojones123

    Bad Guy Guns are green, Good Guy guns are Red in space battles.... Kinda blows away the color theories huh? Yeah, I got the question wrong in High School and called the teacher out on it. What a Nerd I am.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Fount: HRG didn't give them up to Sylar

    by chrth

    He gave them up to Homeland Security. Sylar must've found them in a detention camp or something.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:45 p.m. CST

    One Important thing: previous realities cease to exist

    by George Newman

    <p>refering to my previous posts, </p> <p>UNIVERSE 1 no longer exists. By Future Hiro commissioning Peter, Universe 1 ceased to exist, which is also explains Future Hiro returning to UNIVERSE 2; it is the only existing reality at that point. </p> <p> So by the end of episode 20, when Present Hiro returns to his present, UNIVERSE 2 future disappears because the events that led to its creation will be changed. Present Hiro begins UNIVERSE 3.

  • May 1, 2007, 1:48 p.m. CST

    On Universe 0

    by chrth

    Universe 0 is pretty much a non-starter for discussion. We don't what would've happened if Hiro never travelled forward (except for maybe that girl getting run over), so whatever the original universe was doesn't really hold any clues for us since we never got a chance to explore its differences. <p> PS: I think I may need to go revisit the self-correcting loop timeline theory. I think it's still viable, and it's based on the premise that Sylar gets Hiro's time-travel power. More later (possibly not until next talkback)

  • May 1, 2007, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Why do we postulate that Sylar gets FutureHiro's brain?

    by George Newman

    To guess that would be to put forth that Peter loses the fight in the hallway. I don't think that would happen. At the very least, I think Future Hiro would die before the fight in the hallway was over.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:02 p.m. CST

    So close to solving the mystery of Claire's hymen!

    by boba_rob

    What an awesome episode! Future Peter and Hiro are badass! Parkman plays the bad guy well, and it was nice to see HRG kinda good. I like the role reversals. And Claire, she was smokin' with the brown hair and short skirt. And she was a getting ready to be married, which means we would have had an answer to the age old question-Would Claire's hymen re-generate after sex? I guess we won't know anytime soon.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Timmy hasnt watched the Matrix either i guess

    by Mr_X

    <p>go on peter get down with your badslef neo outfit.</p> <p>finally wtached it , and can't be arsed reading this whole talkback, but nice move, in regards to the whole nathan/sylar switch. SYlar still could be a season 2 villian, if he manages to steal mystiques /changling power. I guess the smackdown is what we're all waiting for in the finale.!</p>

  • May 1, 2007, 2:04 p.m. CST

    chrth: Now, I get it.

    by Fount of Useless Info

    I thought you meant that HRG gave them to Sylar/Nathan. Giving them to Homeland Security makes more sense, and I suppose Sylar could easily be lurking around detention camps looking for easy snackings.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Just before Claire lost her brain...........

    by Krazeyivan

    Did you notice the voice!! YES SIR - Jim Profit is back, maybe in voice only but the best character ever gets an outing once again

  • May 1, 2007, 2:11 p.m. CST

    FutureHiro's brain

    by Steve_Dooku

    He could even teleport himself out to die some(where, time, place) else.<br><br> What about Issac's last comic book, didn't it traverse at least two timelines?

  • May 1, 2007, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Peter and Nikki

    by jimbojones123

    Looked A LOT like Mohawk Storm and Wolvie from I think it's Ultimate X-Men (I never remember which is which) when they are a couple and making out in bars all the time. Thought I'd share.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Of course, considering it's DL and Candace

    by chrth

    One suspects they both could easily escape a detention camp. Perhaps doing so is how Sylar got to them.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:15 p.m. CST

    boba_rob -- I really hadn't been thinking about that--

    by jimbojones123

    But Sylar gotta eat -- BRAINS!!! So, I feel sometime either the cheerleader or Rocky Jr. will end up with something stuck in their brains and will have milky white eyes and be locked away somewhere for QUITE SOME TIME. Weeks, Months, Maybe longer before they are rescued and are kept in kinda suspended animation.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:15 p.m. CST

    FutureHiro's brain

    by chrth

    I don't think it matters if Hiro is dead, I think Sylar could still eat it. Didn't he get the CSI guy's brain after killing him?

  • May 1, 2007, 2:23 p.m. CST

    The Fount of Useless Info's Unified Heroes Timeline

    by History101

    Agreed that it is one timeline.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Ahole ramirez, for time thoery discussion read...

    by George Newman

    Yeah, i found some of the time travel stuff confounding as well, but read posts by Fount of Useless Info, chrth, and myself. This should clear up a lot. Only posts from the last 12 hours.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Ahole

    by Fount of Useless Info

    The answer to how Peter and Nikki got together is in the newest online comic. (Spoiler)<p> <p> <p> They meet when he helps Hiro break people out of a holding facility and she is one of them. Apparently more is in the next issue.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Angels battles are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    Angel was a better show in general too.... but thats the same thing as saying Mercedes is better then a Lexus (or is it vice versa)... both are still frigging great. I was going to say Whedon had more time with it... 3 years of Buffy before getting to Angel, but even first years Buffy was good fight scenes that I recall.... Anyway honestly I don't care right now how bad the battle scenes are... this is the best new show of season one one of best shows on TV period. I am glad its getting such high ratings too... For some reason you wouldn't think a show about unknown superheroes would be in top 10... But the writing is just that good!

  • May 1, 2007, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Shouldn't waste another second w/ this alternate future

    by George Newman

    <p>Everything we saw last night will be null and void by the end of the season. Hiro will create a better tomorrow in which the bomb is stopped</p> <p> that is unless the show creators have some real guts about setting the next season in the post-apocalyptic NYC. But i can't imagine that. The Heroes gotta win.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:35 p.m. CST

    And why no Dead Like Me news?

    by YouIgnorantGeeks

    I just saw on digg that Dead Like Me is getting a direct to DVD movie... and after doing some research found out it was announced over a week ago back on April 18th from MGM (No cast announced, hoping they get everyone back... the director is the guy who did bill&ted and mighty ducks) Did I miss that news story hear? I mean they talk about every other damn DVD lol... but I dind't see anything at all. So yea, for you Dead Like Me fans, a straight to DVD movie is planned.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:36 p.m. CST

    History 101

    by Fount of Useless Info

    Are you agreeing that there is only one timeline (as opposed to many, many alternate universes/timlines) or were you saying that the timeline I presented is one (and only one) option and that there may be more?<P> Either way, I agree with you. I just wasn't sure which you meant.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:38 p.m. CST

    THIS SHOW ROCKS!

    by Cotton McKnight

    This show is absolutely brilliant, and I love how original it is. I have a pretty brilliant idea of my own- they should have two older "heroes", make them lifelong friends, but let them have opposing viewpoints on how the world should be. They could recruit all the other heroes, with one group called "the brotherhood of heroes" and the other being called the "h-men" (for heroes, you know). To make it particularly clever, let's make the old guy's name start with an H.. and lets make him a doctor. No no, wait, a professor! YEAH! Professor Gnarls Havelina, how does that sound? I would have picked Charles but "Gnarls" sounds so much hipper, you know with Gnarles Barkley and all. Anyway, Gnarles could start a school in LA for the H-men. OH OH OH.. and they should have a jet underneath the school too. Wow, am I on a roll today or what? WHERE do I come up with this stuff? I wonder if Heroes is accepting any new writers/ideas/submissions?

  • May 1, 2007, 2:39 p.m. CST

    clarification about the various realities and timelines

    by George Newman

    I definitely agree that there is only one time line, but there have been definite shifts cause by eat time travel. The line has shifted several tiers, from Universe 1 to now Universe 3

  • May 1, 2007, 2:39 p.m. CST

    clarification about the various realities and timelines

    by George Newman

    I definitely agree that there is only one time line, but there have been definite shifts cause by EACH(typo correction) time travel. The line has shifted several tiers, from Universe 1 to now Universe 3

  • May 1, 2007, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Cotton McKnight: Wow, that is an original idea

    by chrth

    I mean, it must be if Jay Leno of all people made the same joke months ago. And you criticize the writers of Heroes?

  • May 1, 2007, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Less Than The Best

    by Homer Sexual

    I just don't dig on time travel stories, even though last night was pretty well done. It was still confusing, IMO, and will be hard to reconcile unless the audience is willing to not look too closely, which isn't really a geek characteristic. <p> I agree that the bomb will be stopped. If Peter explodes and takes out .07, I believe a lot of viewers would drop the show. Yes, there would be a super-excited and thrilled segment, but more people would be turned off than turned on. <p> And, much as I enjoy the Sylar storyline, if it isn't resolved this season, I will be very disappointed. And the run-on storyline is what, I believe, this show is NOT doing.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:53 p.m. CST

    HIRO HAS ALREADY CHANGED THE TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!

    by Tthenomad

    I usually never post since once person makes the same inane comment i would make. BUT ACCORDING TO HEROS YOU CAN CHANGE THE TIMELINE. How i do i know this? Remember back to Episode 2 when Hiro travels to the bomb and gets the comic book. THE FBI CALLES ANDO TO CONFIRM HIS IDENTY AND ANDO SAYS HIRO WAS MISSING FOR 2 MONTHS. So as you can see the series has ALREADY SHOWN YOU CAN CHANGE THE TIMELINE. Thank you

  • May 1, 2007, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Clarification

    by Leopold Scotch

    Some people above thought that DL died in the explosion. It was only Micah. Peter's confession only included Micah too. As far as future Hiro etc knows, DL is still alive and is being detained by Homeland Security or hidden by Bennet along with Candice/Candace. That's why Hiro and Ando visited Bennnet. As it turns out, Sylar got to them, but the only people we know were killed in the explosion were Ando and Micah.

  • May 1, 2007, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Link below offers some complex timeTheory discussion

    by George Newman

    http://tinyurl.com/yr95nb <p> on the sidebar he discusses many films, the most helpful discussion I found concern BACK TO THE FUTURE and BILL AND TED. </p> <p> my only reservation is that he applies the same theory to all the films, which I think is incorrect because different stories operate under different laws. A time travel story is only responsible in answering to the laws the storyteller puts forth.</p> <p> He dismisses FIXED TIME Stories because of issues he has with Paradoxes in Causality. However, the whole point of FIXED TIME stories is the fascination with the paradox. The paradox is what is so intriguing, but the goal of the Author of the website is to examine each story logically and explain it through a very specific Time Theory Model.</p>

  • May 1, 2007, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Tthenomad, I completely forgot about that one

    by George Newman

    <p>In that version, Ando does not die in the explosion because he is in Japan!</p> <p> Hiro quickly deletes that timeline though once he returns. I guess we can call that timeline UNIVERSE 0 or 1A. Can we think about that one folks?

  • May 1, 2007, 3:09 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by slkboxrman

    it was never established that charlie got the phrasebook from hiro..hiro gave it to her because he knew she would get one soon anyways....just like the scene in star trek 4 when the crew go back in time and give the formula to something from the future that hasnt been invented yet to someone,,,and mccoy says "wont that change the future?" and scotty says "how do we know he didnt invent it?" that may just prove YOUR point, but i hope u understand where im going with this.. besides wouldnt she recognize hiro that first time they meet, with her super memory..

  • May 1, 2007, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Heroes movies

    by Arashikage

    That would suck. TV has so much more potential. You can take your time with developing characters and story lines, movies are too rushed. This show is good because its on TV not in spite of it.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:10 p.m. CST

    This show should follow the Buffy template.

    by Christopher3

    One big bad per season.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Totally Matrix, Mr. X

    by wackedfuck

    Not just the outfit, but them fighting off the guards in the lobby to rescue Past Hiro as well.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:17 p.m. CST

    there has to be ......

    by slkboxrman

    multiple timelines, there is no straight answer for too many questions without multiple timelines....if u believe in one timeline theory then future hiro should not have been suprised that claire was saved due to the fact that past hiro had that knowledge already....so past hiro or present hiro, whatever..went to a timeline where he had not yet went back in time himself to tell peter to save the cheerleader, so put 2 and 2 together, thats a different timeline...peter had not met claire yet either, hence the scar....me and my friends do agree that there may have been one small goof by the writers, if it really was a goof, when mohinder recalls being on the subway with peter and him mentioning a man that could freeze time visited him...point is there is no ONE theory on time travel, every story puts its own spin on it... according to one, PH and FH should not have been able to interact or boom ..paradox(universe ending bang)....but there can be no denying the multiple timeline theory

  • May 1, 2007, 3:18 p.m. CST

    We briefly discussed the following months ago, but

    by George Newman

    I want to bring it back up, because I think it is important in understanding Hiro's powers. <p>In episode 16, "Unexpected," Hiro and Ando hide in a luggage compartment of a bus during the shootout between the Gaming Commission Officer and the Dancer, Hope. Hope finds Hiro and Ando and the following takes place: <p>A - Hope shoots the gun at Hiro's head</p> <p>B - We see the bullet leave the barrel, Hiro slows the bullet, and then reverses time sending the bullet back into the gun, to a point before Hope ever shoots</p> <p>C - Gaming Commission Officer tackles Hope before she shoots the gun.</p> <p>So what happened here? If Hiro reversed time, then wouldn't the Officer be just as far away from Hope at part C as he was at part A? How did he close the gap, unless Hiro specifically isolated the time/space of Hope and her gun, and reversed her time, ALL THE WHILE the Officer existed/acted in realtime.</p> <p>So is that what happened? Did Hiro triangulate his power on that specific 5-foot circle and reverse time, while the surrounding environment continued on?</p> <p>Or did he shift the timeline to a parallel situation in which the Gaming Officer succeeded in tackling Hope before she could shoot?</p>

  • May 1, 2007, 3:22 p.m. CST

    cotton mcnight got so owned by chrth

    by BadMrWonka

    harder than I've seen anyone get owned in a talkback for a while. (not since I told the douche that kept posting a link to his lame short film to go to the Lost talkback, since they'll watch anything)<p>I mean plaigarizing a lame Leno joke about plaigairizing? that's so meta, it's ridiculous.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:24 p.m. CST

    string theory

    by slkboxrman

    i think i was the only amongst my friends to know that "string theory" had to do with multiple timelines or dimensions. one actually thought it had to do with all the strings in issacs apartment that hiro had set up to see the timeline....lol also can someone resolve an issue that those same 2 friends said which i think was never implied or inferred judging that its never came up in this talkback yet.....they say it was implied that parkmans son has powers, based on the conversation they had when parkman got that drawing from his kid saying "mommy and me" and they feel that blows the whole door off both parents needing to be superpowered to give birth to a superpowerd child, which has been the case so far.....

  • May 1, 2007, 3:28 p.m. CST

    yea george

    by slkboxrman

    me and my friends agree that hiro specifically rewound the girl with the gun or more....because in addition to the gaming guy tackling her, the cops showed up instantly a second later as if they had all been frozen or slowed down for several minutes

  • May 1, 2007, 3:29 p.m. CST

    slkboxrman

    by Leopold Scotch

    Matt's wife did have a power: the power of getting away with being a cheating bitch.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:30 p.m. CST

    One timeline that zigzags its way across realities

    by George Newman

    The Mohinder thing wasn't a goof, it actually helps prove the multiple Universes. I don't want to right about it anymore though. Read: http://tinyurl.com/3d5q7m , then Read: http://tinyurl.com/2sk79a , also check out some of the surrounding posts

  • May 1, 2007, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Tthenomad

    by jimbojones123

    nice job on the homework. Hiro didn't have any adventures w/Ando in that timeline.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:31 p.m. CST

    god damn, I love this show and its bullshit!!

    by BadMrWonka

    I mean, the only thing I love more than a really good movie or TV show, is a good discussion about a severely, and almost incapacitatingly complicated subject. the evolution of the human genome, politics, time travel, herc's obsession with veronica mars...it's all gravy!<p>this show is great because you can watch it (like some of my friends do) and not question ANYTHING. you might have a vague idea or two about what's around the bend, but mostly you just let yourself go with the flow and be blown away. on the other hand, you can get on here and discuss almost endlessly (until the TB link disappears under the weight of the shield,24, etc.) about not only what is going to happen, but what HAS HAPPENED. and how it all fits together. it's all the passive appeal of a show like desperate housewives (which I think is shit, but I get why people watch it) and the active appeal of a science show on particle physics. god damn, I love it.<p>I'm moving away from all of my friends and family here in Seattle in 2 weeks, moving to LA with a car full of computer and film equipment, some clothes, a pillow and assorted knick-knacks. it's so daunting, but I have a job, a place to live, a TV, and internet. so no matter what happens, I can watch Heroes, and come on here to chat with you yahoos about it. <p>who'd have thought a TV show about comic book characters (never read one) and a talkback full of people I've never met would end up as a source of some comfort?<p>Damn you Wonka, indeed...

  • May 1, 2007, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Anyone catch the MASSIVE plot hole?

    by Psynapse

    Seriously.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Psynapse: We're talking time travel

    by chrth

    There's probably plenty -- can you narrow it down?

  • May 1, 2007, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Psynapse

    by Fount of Useless Info

    Was it the one about how time travel is possible? Or how people can be invisible and fly and do stuff like that? Or the one about leaving a city devastated by a bomb as a smoldering pile of rubble 5 years later (that one really did bug me)?

  • May 1, 2007, 3:37 p.m. CST

    Wonka's right

    by Jor-El23

    I was totally lost in the episode last night and it wasn't until I came here that I really started to question things and poke holes. I don't really want to do that. As much as I love this show, I can't give the writers too much credit for being this complicated. I think someone already pointed out earlier in ths TB that they're making the show really accessible to non-comic book people by distilling these stories to the basics. And yet still those basic stories are enough for the geeks, or at least the geeks who aren't professional haters.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Why didn't Sylar just go in there and kill Hiro?

    by Rupee88

    Once again, the answer is the same with every plot hole on this show: because the writers are lazy, untalented hacks.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:38 p.m. CST

    George Newman: I think it needs to be

    by chrth

    Universe 0a (or Universe 0+). Universe 0 Hiro never time-travels to NYC. Universe 0+ is Universe 0 but Hiro has disappeared into the future (but Hiro doesn't actually do anything, so it's not really it's own universe). Universe 1 then starts when Hiro returns.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Rupee88: I don't think Sylar was after Hiro

    by chrth

    He was after Peter. Also remember, Mohinder was supposed to kill Hiro. He had no way of knowing it hadn't been done.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Jor-El23

    by Rupee88

    Well many of us don't have to "poke holes"...the gaping plot holes appear to us when we are watching the show. I guess ignorance is bliss when it comes to poorly written television. Heroes is ultimately a kiddie show and it doesn't have to make sense any more than Power Rangers does.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    rupee88 you dildo

    by BadMrWonka

    parkman had shot future hiro, present time hiro was shitting himself, and sylar got into a fight with the one guy as powerful (or more) than him. what, would you want him to call time out, so he could go eat hiro's brain? (ando would have stopped him with his power of awesome, anyway) <p>it is you who are lazy, sir. don't bring your mess into a talkback full of people who are spending the whole day at work debating these intricacies. plus, I think your fries are burning. back to work!

  • May 1, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    slkboxrman: phrasebook and recognizing Hiro

    by chrth

    Unfortunately, we don't know what happens when Charlie meets Hiro in the diner the second time around because we never see it. In fact, it's arguable that the whole diner sequencing contradicts the multiple-universe theory and is closer to the self-correcting theory. While I agree we don't know for sure that it is the same phrasebook, it seems odd to me that they would hint thusly and it not be the case.<p> To be honest, the entire Charlie-Hiro-Ando diner sequence is tough to place in any consistent time travel theory; it seems to muddles a few of them together.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:44 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by Rupee88

    Wrong...pay attention next time.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:44 p.m. CST

    The Scar. Think about it

    by JackimusPrime

    You people wondering why future Peter has a scar across his face are forgetting something very important. He doesnt have Claire's power. In their future he didnt save the cheerleader and meet Claire so how would he have it? Who knows where he got the scar from, but its not healing, but he cant heal it.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Rupee88: Oh, well now I understand

    by chrth

    Being called 'wrong' definitely proves your case. Why are you wasting time in a talkback when you could be using your razor-sharp debating skills to solve real problems? Go, go, save the world!

  • May 1, 2007, 3:45 p.m. CST

    The reason this show frustrates me so much

    by Rupee88

    is that it is such a wasted opportunity. They do some things right, but they can't help but leave two or three plot holes in every episode and they steal shamelessly from comics. A lot more talent and a little hard work and this show could really be good, but instead it is a joke.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:47 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by Rupee88

    I'm not going to waste time reciting dialogue from the episode. You are the one wasting space in a talkback stating things that are only true in the show you saw in your mind. The rest of us saw the one on TV and it was made very clear why Sylar went there at the end.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Fount of Useless Info

    by History101

    One as opposed to many. I have grown tired of many/alternate realities. Honestly, why does it matter what happens if the "road not taken" is being played out else where? We get to see only the good guys win version? No, just one reality(yes i realize i am talking about a tv show)no other options, no other universe where everything is peachy, either things are prevented or they are not.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:48 p.m. CST

    JackimusPrime

    by Rupee88

    You must have watched the same show as chrth.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:48 p.m. CST

    Why Sylar doesn't want Hiro's brain (seriously)

    by chrth

    Because of Peter. Sylar knows the younger Petrelli has the power to steal powers. If Sylar takes the time-travel power, then Peter can take it from him -- and a lot easier than Sylar could, I might add.<p> Otherwise, why wouldn't Sylar have gone for Hiro earlier? He knew they had Hiro in custody and that he has time travel skills earlier in the episode. But he didn't go to him. He obviously doesn't want the time-travel power.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:53 p.m. CST

    This reminds me of the talkback after Matrix 2 came out

    by Rupee88

    Everyone was trying to make sense of the movie like the writers had some master plan that made sense. "Revolutions" came out and didn't answer the questions and it was clear that the internal "logic" of "Reloaded" was nonsense and nonexistent. Same with Heroes...you guys are thinking much more in depth than the writers who are just trying to make an entertaining show for less discriminating viewers. They probably read this talkback and laugh at you...and maybe steal some of your better ideas.

  • May 1, 2007, 3:53 p.m. CST

    the score is, chrth: 2, rupee88: slow

    by BadMrWonka

    rupee88, plot holes are not necessarily plot holes simply because you haven't thought enough about them to make sense of things. read through this entire talkback full of conjecture, debate, explication, and supposition, and see how many of your plot holes are still left.<p> but seriously...you are burning the fries, and you know you're on probation from the drive thru captain...

  • May 1, 2007, 3:54 p.m. CST

    A question and comments

    by lexx123

    For all of the bitchin' about how Heroes bites from Xmen, Watchmen and trannies with super powers--wait that last one isn't a show. I have to say that was a super sick episode. My biggest problem was why didn't claire just start healing the second sylar started cutting her pretty little brain out? You have power bitch use it!!! The only problem i had was that the sylar peter show down looked hella x3 iceman vs pyro....

  • May 1, 2007, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Because I love my fellow talkbackers (even Rupee88)

    by chrth

    I just rewatched the phone convo. Nathan/Sylar does want Hiro dead (not his brain). The problem is as BadMrWonka states -- Sylar can't call timeout just to go kill Hiro. I'm not sure what Sylar could have done, to be honest, unless he had Ted's power and nuked the building (thus killing Hiro before he could escape).

  • May 1, 2007, 3:59 p.m. CST

    THE plot hole of last night's episode

    by Psynapse

    How in the hell did Sylar 'regenerate' BEFORE he acquired Claire's ability? And Chrth, time travel don't cut it here......

  • May 1, 2007, 3:59 p.m. CST

    lexx123: the Claire power isn't instantaneous

    by chrth

    It usually takes a few moments for it to kick in. I imagine if Sylar maintained constant ripping the forehead pressure along the entire length of the cut, she wouldn't able to heal fast enough.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Why Silar didn't go after Hiro earlier:

    by mbeemer

    Because he's impersonating the President of the United States - he's under surveilance most of the time and can't just slip away to eat brains anytime he wants. He had to wait for the right opportunity, and ran out of time when Peter showed up to free Hiro, forcing him to expose himself to the public.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Psynapse: When did Sylar regenerate?

    by chrth

    The bomb was blamed on Sylar, but it was Peter that exploded. If Sylar was simply not in range (but they thought he was), then he wouldn't have needed Claire's power.<p> Unless you're referring to Hiro hitting Sylar with the sword. That's because Hiro went to the future. Because Hiro 'disappears' from the moment he left to the moment he arrives, he obviously never had a chance to 'kill' Sylar -- the moment got skipped while time-travelling. It's only after he returns that the moment will come up again.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:03 p.m. CST

    "can't just slip away to eat brains anytime"

    by chrth

    Of course he can. He has Candace's power. He "goes to bed", changes to look like somebody else, and flies out of his window. Piece o' cake.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    When did Sylar regenerate

    by Jor-El23

    before taking Claire's ability? Are you taking about him being stabbed by Hiro? Future Hiro knew a past in which the cheerleader was not saved, Sylar took his power and then Hiro tried to stab him but it didn't work b/c he had the ability to regenerate. what we saw last night, Present Hiro had saved the cheerleader but hadn't yet tried to kill Sylar. Which was the whole point of the episode, rescue Present Hiro, send him back to take out Sylar. Right? Or am I totally off?

  • May 1, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    P.S.

    by mbeemer

    (Although that makes me wonder how he thought he could kill his daughter in the Oval Office and have no one notice. Or ask what happened to the young girl that got logged in and then seemed to disappear. He may have thought he'd be invincible and not have to maintain the charade.)

  • May 1, 2007, 4:08 p.m. CST

    chrth - slipping away

    by mbeemer

    Your example proves my point - Silar has to wait to "go to bed" when he's not under constant watch by his protection detail. Otherwise, someone soon notices "The President is missing!!!" and starts a search. Which means he can't slip away anytime he wants - like I said.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:11 p.m. CST

    I thought Rupee88 looked familiar...

    by BadMrWonka

    on Studio 60:<p>"I just couldn't deal with the smug attitude of the show and how no one smiles on it and how there is so much political shit in it." <p>on Pursuit of Happyness:<p>"It just looks way too contrived and overly sweet..too manipulative. Fuck that guy and his dumb little kid."<p> no wonder Heroes is too much for the poor guy...

  • May 1, 2007, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Getting stabbed does not equal death

    by George Newman

    The cheerleader was saved. Sylar didn't get her power. Hiro stabs Sylar. Peter blows up. Sylar slinks into hiding and at some point kills and replaces Nathan. Is that hard to comprehend? Just because he got stabbed doesn't mean he died! Maybe Sylar feigned death and waited for Hiro to leave.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:20 p.m. CST

    I get what you're positing Chrth.....

    by Psynapse

    But the flaw is that FutureHiro STILL remembers having stabbed Sylar when you are saying he 'skipped' the moment by time travelling. If he had skipped over the moment how could he remember it? It's a hole plain and simple......

  • May 1, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Though I admit...

    by Psynapse

    It isn't the first time I've had to overlook one on this show....(don't get me started on the VERY shady explanation of the Haitian's ability)

  • May 1, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    George Newman: No, Sylar never got stabbed in this time

    by chrth

    line. Hiro leapt to the future before he had a chance to stab Sylar. If Hiro had died while in the future (er, I guess both Hiros), the stabbing never takes place. When Hiro goes back again, it's a new Universe.<p> In Universe 1, Hiro stabs Sylar but Sylar survives because of Claire's power. Future Hiro goes back in time and says 'Save the Cheerleader, Save the World', thus starting Universe 2. In Universe 2 (we'll ignore the Charlie stuff for now), Hiro gets the sword and leaps forward. This is an unexpected consequence of Save the Cheerleader, Save the World -- Future Hiro never leapt forward five years (i.e. in Universe 1). The problem is, in Universe 2, since Hiro wasn't there to stab Sylar, Sylar wasn't stabbed so Claire's power is irrelevant. When Hiro goes back, Universe 3, everything will happen the same as in Universe 2 *if* he doesn't stab Sylar.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:23 p.m. CST

    George Newman: No, Sylar never got stabbed in this time

    by chrth

    line. Hiro leapt to the future before he had a chance to stab Sylar. If Hiro had died while in the future (er, I guess both Hiros), the stabbing never takes place. When Hiro goes back again, it's a new Universe.<p> In Universe 1, Hiro stabs Sylar but Sylar survives because of Claire's power. Future Hiro goes back in time and says 'Save the Cheerleader, Save the World', thus starting Universe 2. In Universe 2 (we'll ignore the Charlie stuff for now), Hiro gets the sword and leaps forward. This is an unexpected consequence of Save the Cheerleader, Save the World -- Future Hiro never leapt forward five years (i.e. in Universe 1). The problem is, in Universe 2, since Hiro wasn't there to stab Sylar, Sylar wasn't stabbed so Claire's power is irrelevant. When Hiro goes back, Universe 3, everything will happen the same as in Universe 2 *if* he doesn't stab Sylar.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Was there a preview for next week's ep.

    by Javeyjoe

    and if so what happened? Thanks.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    I feel much better now...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...because the cat finally decided it was nap time and let me sleep for a couple of hours...and whilst I was napping, finally somebody put my one timeline - no changes - Sylar fools Hiro into thinking time changes - every horrible death we've seen is bloody inevitable theory to bed as well, as it were. The smallest thing really, the bullet changes everything. See, I don't always want to be right.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Hiro did Not remove himself from the timeline for 5 yrs

    by George Newman

    This is a bad inconsistency: <p>In the pilot episode Hiro goes to the future</p> <p> in episode 2, the police call Ando in Japan and he says that Hiro has been missing from 2 months.</p> <p>this means that when Hiro travels to the future, he removes himself completely from the timeline.</p> <p> well in tonight's episode, Hiro travels 5 years into the future, which would mean that he removed himself from the timeline, right? wrong. </p> <p>Five years in the future, there is a string timeline constructed by Hiro from UNIVERSE 2 in the apartment. UNIVERSE 2 Hiro is a wanted man, not a missing man. Therefore Hiro was not removed from the timeline for 5 years. The Future Hiro we see in this episode is from UNIVERSE 1, the universe in which the cheerleader died, which is why Future Hiro has no memory of saving the cheerleader, even though in this future (UNIVERSE 2) she is alive.</p> <p>So honky on that.</p>

  • May 1, 2007, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Psynapse: Ah, but remember which FutureHiro it is

    by chrth

    FutureHiro is Universe 1 FutureHiro, not a Universe 2 FutureHiro (we had that discussion way up above). That's why he remembers it.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:25 p.m. CST

    yikes

    by mcordy

    644 posts for Heroes 160 for 24 Jack is losing some fans here. Timeline issues aside...last nights 1.20...ROCKED!

  • May 1, 2007, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Thanks pursued_by_bear...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...hopefully if Napoleon comes back from Elba or wherever he'll finally get it...since shit has to be spelled out for him. Oh, if you don't want to be pursued by them bears anymore then don't say "woof" to them at the bars. Get your hands off me you Damn Dirty Wonka!

  • May 1, 2007, 4:30 p.m. CST

    rupee

    by leesheri

    Why are you being such a troll? Let us have our fun. We all saw the same episode as chrth and we enjoyed it. Attacking people isn't going to make you like the show any better.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Kill of Nikki/Jessica

    by jimmy_009

    Her character offers NOTHING to the show as a whole. The whole split personality thing is not interesting on any level.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Kill off Nikki/Jessica

    by jimmy_009

    Her character offers NOTHING to the show as a whole. The whole split personality thing is not interesting on any level.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    I still think Chrth should push for Hiro as a baby name

    by BadMrWonka

    it's good for a girl or a boy!<p>as a backup: Wonka for a boy, Leesheri for a girl, Onomaki as a middle name, either way...

  • May 1, 2007, 4:35 p.m. CST

    George Newman: But that was Universe 1 FutureHiro

    by chrth

    Universe 2 PresentHiro knew that the Cheerleader had been saved. Universe 1 FutureHiro didn't.<p> It's like BTTF1. When Marty returned to 1985, he recognized all the differences because he was Universe 1 Marty in Universe 2 1985. FutureHiro would've been the same way -- except he didn't see any differences. The only difference was that Claire had been saved, but it didn't substantially change the timeline -- yet (because Universe 2 Hiro skipped the attack). If FutureHiro had the opportunity to ask Peter, he would've known the cheerleader had been saved.<p> One other thing to point out: we don't know how long ago FutureHiro had jumped into the past. For all we know, it had been the previous day, or the previous hour. There might've been no time for him to analyze the differences.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:37 p.m. CST

    I'll be naming the child Ando

    by chrth

    Because he will have the power of !AWESOME!

  • May 1, 2007, 4:45 p.m. CST

    I know

    by leesheri

    anchorite, but I can try. To use an over used quote, "Can't we all just get along?" <BR> Wonka don't punish that innocent child with my name. I have hated it my entire life. <BR> chrth Will your wife allow you to name the child Ando? I would shoot for the middle name with that one. Go for first, but take middle. ;) <BR> I've enjoyed reading all the time theory stuff, but it is way over my head.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:50 p.m. CST

    "trannies with super-powers"

    by Onomaki Forp

    Who was saying there's no show like that? BBC Scotland was gonna make The Invisibles, but it never happened. But I seem to remember somewhere actually seeing trannies with superpowers either on small or large screen...can't remember...'course i mistook pursued_by_bear for future chrth so's anythings possible.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Just a thought...

    by Valebant

    forget the Peter/Sylar battle, I want to see the outside crowd's reaction to the President flying. Can you imagine W just taking off like that? <p> [Probably not a SPOILER] On another note after rewatching, Future Hiro was trying to give Ando something when he was interrupted; later Future Hiro is dying and Ando takes that something out, looks like Hiro removed a page from a comic book just for Ando. Perhaps Future Hiro is preventing his past self from knowing something. Perhaps that something involves Ando's necessary death. Perhaps so Hiro won't prevent Ando from completing a mission? I believe Ando complained earlier in the series about not being special or a hero, maybe Future Hiro has realized his selfishness and instead of Sylar being remembered as the "terrorist," it will be Ando remembered as the "hero." Just a thought. <p> On yet another note, it would be funny to have another time traveler like PRIMER and have Hiro and someone else screwing with each other in mundane ways. However, they killed Isaac because he was screwing with the plot, maybe they won't kill Hiro, but they'll make him promise to only freeze time and not travel after the NY debacle is over.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:50 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by George Newman

    My point wasn't about Future Hiro. It was the set pieces in UNIVERSE 2. In Universe 2, there is a string timeline hanging in the apartment. Also in Universe 2, Hiro is a wanted man, not a man that has been missing for 5 years. <p> In the new online comic it shows FutureHiro returning from the past to the apartment, and just moments later he meets PresentHiro. So there was no substantial passage of time for FutureHiro to construct a string timeline in the UNIVERSE 2 apartment, which should have been devoid of Hiro's presence for 5 years. But it wasn't. The string timeline was already there. It had been constructed by a UNIVERSE 2 FutureHiro, who was absent from the show last night.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Nah, the Scion has already been named

    by chrth

    All efforts at 'geekifying' his name have failed miserably (and of course, would pale in comparison to Mori's boy).<p> Of course, I could pretend I named him Gabe after Penny Arcade. Even though I like Tycho better.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:53 p.m. CST

    George Newman: Ah, yes, I see what you mean

    by chrth

    That is a plothole. Hmm. Maybe there's something special about Isaac's apartment that makes it immune to changes in the space-time continuum?<p> More evidence against the multiple universes.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Haha.. Nah, it's just a plot hole.

    by George Newman

    But the writers are getting better. There have been uglier plotholes in previous episodes than this one.

  • May 1, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Wait! I have a workaround!

    by chrth

    FutureHiro, knowing that changing time could erase the String Theory, brought it back in time with him. Then when he went back to the future, he put it back up again so he could evaluate his next move (since the first move didn't seem to help).<p> Plothole CLOSED. Except for the Online Comic. Hmm, can I declare "It's not canon!"?

  • May 1, 2007, 5 p.m. CST

    it's the back to the future problem

    by BadMrWonka

    if you fly into the future, that future (if it's in your same universe) shouldn't have you in it. you should have disappeared.<p>but what if you know that you will go back to your time and continue on? then couldn't you exist in the universe's future? well, yes, but your future self that you meet would have the memory of going forward (bill and ted). hiro WAS there, but DID NOT have any memory of going into the future as present hiro.<p>I think Newman's right in that that is the cleanest example of a hole in the time travel continuity of the show that we've found so far.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Why does everyone say that they steal from comic books?

    by wackedfuck

    I don't if Kring has really read a comic or not, but he certainly isn't hiding the influences. Kitty Pride's time traveling exploits are mentioned by Hiro in Episode 1 and Stan Lee made an appearance. Homage is probably a better word for it.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:04 p.m. CST

    chrth's scion will be named Gabe?

    by Onomaki Forp

    That is Sylar's real first name isn't it?

  • May 1, 2007, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Homage

    by Valebant

    Sure, "attribution" is the legal term. It can serve as a defense to infringement.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Jay Leno... what?

    by Cotton McKnight

    I didn't see Jay Leno so I don't know what that means.. but I do know one thing- a "registration" system is straight out of the x men comic books, and X3 for that matter. And in case anyone had any doubts, I was being sarcastic. This show is a complete and total ripoff of something much, much better. That's right, you heard me, Heroes rips off the 4400!

  • May 1, 2007, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Thanks YouIgnorantGeeks

    by _Maltheus_

    That Dead Like Me news was very welcome and completely unexpected. I hope they get the whole cast back. I'll be buying that one.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Peter Petrelli is Badass...

    by Laza-rus

    Say what you will about his former penchant for annoying bangs but he kicked all kinds of ass in this ep.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Prof: Uh, yikes?

    by chrth

    Wow, didn't think of that. I better keep watches away from him, huh?

  • May 1, 2007, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Hitler stole the registration system from Marvel too

    by chrth

    That's why they sent Captain America over to kick his ass.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Chrth George I have a solution for you both

    by Tthenomad

    How do we know there is not future Hiro in Episode #2? Ando says he has been gone for 2 months. Was that Future Hiro eaten by Sylar two months ago? Was Hiro on the original list? We dont have that information, but writers can use that as an out.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:30 p.m. CST

    I must have dreamt the super trannie show...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...but there have been trannie heroes...er...heroines in the comics. Lord Fanny in the aforementioned Invisibles and Coagula in Doom Patrol were both male-to-female trannsexuals. Madame Fatal was a cross-dresser way back in the golden age. She appeared in "Crack Comics", could you imagine DC printing that title today? There's also the cross dressing FBI agent Denise/Dennis from Twin Peaks played by pre-Mulder David Duchovny. Did Janet Garrison ever have any super-powers? Arguably the greatest cross-dressing hero/ine is Lassie. (cross-undresser? wasn't actually wearing any clothes...)

  • May 1, 2007, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Hiro exists outside of the timestream

    by Petro45

    I think a lot of the "plot holes" regarding time travel can be explained by the idea the Hiro exists outside of the timestream, and that changes to the past don't have any effect on him. We know from last night's episode that, unlike all of the other characters, his memory isn't automatically "updated" whenever something changes in the past -- he didn't know that Peter saved Claire in the past until present-Hiro told him. He also still remembers stabbing Sylar and Sylar regenerating, which obviously never happened. So, Future Hiro still remembers his original past, and only learns of changes through external sources. This also explains why the "timeline" in Isaac's apartment always stays the same. No matter what happens in the past, Hiro's memory stays the same, so his timeline is not affected.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Can someone answer me something...

    by Charlie Murphy

    i loved last night's episode, but i've been thinking... shouldn't claire be dead in this episode? "save the cheerleader, save the world"? future hiro says that if he can go back in time to tell peter to save claire, the whole bomb thing could be stopped. doesn't that mean that he failed and sylar killed claire? or, does future hiro say this believing that sylar was the one who exploded? and if that's the case, why would any of our heroes believe sylar died, if they thought he'd taken claire's powers? other than these questions, i thought the eppy was fucking sweet. the sylar kills, peter's scar, peter's fireballs... it was pretty great stuff. doesn't top "company man" in my books, but it was definitely one of the best episodes of the season. i just hate that nikki's still alive. hopefully the future changes, and she gets her brain sucked by sylar. she's really the only one whose power would actually fuck up sylar. have sylar seeing two of himself, one good, one bad could be enough to fuck himself up. (or would nikki's "power" even do anything to sylar, as it's pretty much a personal thing? anyway, nikki is the obvious weak link of the cast. if she was not on the show, i would have no complaints about it. so... yeah, good episode. any help or feedback would be appreciated.

  • May 1, 2007, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Charlie Murphy

    by Petro45

    In the timeline we saw last night, Claire didn't die, but Hiro never stabbed Sylar -- Futurehiro was remembering something from a past timeline. That's why he insisted that presentHiro go back in time and take care of unfinished business (the stabbity). Of course, we know what Futurehiro doesn't - Sylar wasn't the one who exploded. (Come to think of it, might have been good for Peter to mention that to someone).

  • May 1, 2007, 5:43 p.m. CST

    i haven't read the talkback

    by Charlie Murphy

    sorry if my questions have been answered

  • May 1, 2007, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Charlie you must read entire talkback!!!

    by Onomaki Forp

    Then not only will all your questions be answered - - but all your answers will be questioned! (Also somewhere up there I've posted a link to a YouTube clip of Japanese Schoolgirls having a catfight whilst arguing about manga characters) And you must also learn why you must damn Wonka. Damn you Wonka!

  • May 1, 2007, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Why could future Hiro stop bullets like other hiro?

    by warp11

    Remember when that lady tried to kill present Hiro in the parking lot, and Hiro stopped the bullet without even thinking about it? How come future Hiro couldn't do that?

  • May 1, 2007, 6:11 p.m. CST

    I don't think either version of Hiro...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...fully realises his own power.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:21 p.m. CST

    So Sylar's mom...

    by Valebant

    is Audrey from THE LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS?<p><p> Suddenly, Sylar, <br> Is standing behind me. <br> He won't give me answers. <br> We don't comprehend. <br> Suddenly, Sylar, <br> Is here to divide me <br> Eat my mind standing. <br> Sylar's my end. <br>

  • May 1, 2007, 6:22 p.m. CST

    dogapeandman2

    by BadMrWonka

    that's what she said...

  • May 1, 2007, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Mr. Mushnik is Simone's father

    by BadMrWonka

    he's as black as Anthony Hopkins in that movie...

  • May 1, 2007, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Save the Cheerleader, save the... wait, what?

    by Forget_Byron

    Ok, so Hiro tells Peter to save Claire in order to save the world because he believes Sylar is the bomb, as everyone does. But Peter is the bomb. So by Peter gaining Claire's power through diffusion, killing Sylar obviously won't help. I also don't think we've seen the last of future Hiro (Universe 1 or whatever). He says he stabbed Sylar, and the only way he could have known to do that would be to have gone back himself and done it, but then found it didn't work. There's obviously something else going on here that either the writers don't realize and are going to totally muck up, or they're brilliant (or they'll plagarize it, as some of you believe). Either way, it's been entertaining.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Back From Elba?

    by Napoleon Park

    I didn't go to Elba, I went to sleep. See, I'm not the 'real' Napoleon. (and I'm named after my cat who was named after the man from UNCLE, not Dynamite.) *** I wouldn't damn anyone for posting spoilers - I kinda thought that was why we all came here. Honored to have people talking about me while I'm gone - how sad is that? *** SlkBoxrGuy mentioned the unused title "String Theory" refers to the multiple dimensions and timelines principle and not to FutureHiro's physical theoretical timelines attached to strings. Uh, I assumed it refered to both. You know, a double meaning. It's a literary device, sort of like a pun. (since that wasn't the episode "Five years gone" actual title anyway, the point is moo. *** Here's my crackpot theory that makes no sense/doens't fit the timeline. How many people would have to be in New York at the time of the blast (President, Vice Prez, Secretary of State... etc.) for their deaths to make Senator Petrelli next in line for the Presidency? And if that's not how he ascended to power so quickly, then how? Of course if he stated he was President at the timeo of the blast, then never mind... *** Did anyone think the New York Blast monument - that huge black marble slab with the inscribed names and the eternal flame - looked cool? How come 9/11 doesn't have one of those? (Of course Kring stole the ideas from the Viet Nam Memorial and JFK's grave.) *** I suppose it's unrealistic to expect a weekly TV series to have a major motion picture special effects budget. Still, superhero TV has come a long way from sand walls, flying on wires and bat-rope climbing witht eh camera tilted. I wonder how many pricey special effect we did get last night. The smoky freezing hands and heat radiating fire hands, phony Fly Guy with his smoke ring exhaust, (those could be done in the computer), some teleportation scenes (basically stop the camera and move off screen, with Star Trek teleporter era fade effect.) The aforementioned monument was probably a mat painting computered in rather than a prop. And the 'fight' was conventional colored light effects and a prop man pushing on the door from the other side. Hmm, this show really should get a bigger budget, but they're doing amazing things on the cheap, while the money goes to the oversized ensemble cast. *** But we all learned something important: Brunette Hayden Panettierre with better eye makeup and lipstick = incredibly hot.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:28 p.m. CST

    TomBodet

    by Onomaki Forp

    Hiro no stay from Hilo cuz he nevah speak da kine pidgin l'dat. Hey Bra, way back when I stay one Ikamono, you said dat da kine movie Zoo stay produce by da zfizk l'dat. Was you jes' jokin' Braddah? Cuz I when name da producahs on da tread an got banned l'dat. 'Cept I dunno if I stay banned cuzza dat, or cuzza da repligin' Wow Bra, can you stay repligin' in pidgin? Unreals. Laters Bra.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Solution to Time Travel issues: It's fiction!

    by I Hope You Die

    There aren't any logically consistent concepts of time travel in which the past can be changed. But I can follow the show narratively, so who cares? Genetic mutations that give people superpowers don't make sense either.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:29 p.m. CST

    maybe peter got the scar before meeting claire

    by BadMrWonka

    in the alternate timeline, I mean...<p>maybe haitian erased Hiro's memory<p>maybe Hiro is immune to the memory logic of time travel<p>why don't people read all our discussions before posing questions we've already gone over? oh...there are 700 posts? never mind then, that's a lot to go through...

  • May 1, 2007, 6:32 p.m. CST

    More likely Sylar's mom is Audrey II...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...PLANT!!! (feeeed meeee)

  • May 1, 2007, 6:34 p.m. CST

    worst case scenario

    by Napoleon Park

    You realize there's an awful lot of optimism and trust involved in hoping/assuming the writers on this show are going to do us right and have the time travel paradoxes all make sense in the end. Mainstream TV has rarely treated either science fiction or comic books with any kind of respect, and generally adheres to the mantra "It doesn't have to make sense, it's just comics." We've all read good comics so we respect the medium and assume/hope this show will turn out to be 'good comics'. Won't we be pissed if the show serves up a nonsense ending, shrugs and goes "So? It's sooperheroes, whaddaya expect?"

  • May 1, 2007, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Just because...

    by Valebant

    I'm reminded of the time travel episode of Futurama, the Professor... "Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!" Great stuff.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Petro45 pointed out something that I hate

    by George Newman

    Petro45:"Come to think of it, might have been good for Peter to mention that to someone" <p>I HATE IT when writers use poor communication to keep their story afloat. "Why didn't Peter say anything to PresentHiro before they sent him back," you ask? It is because it serves the story that Peter not speak, because the writer has no better ideas.</p> <p> This has been a device for YEARS! CENTURIES! MILLENIA!! Can we please abandon it??!?!?!?!??!</p> <p> I want a story in which, despite the best efforts of the characters, bad things still happen. There is still some suspense and peril.</p> <p>How many times have you shouted at the movie or tv screen, furious at the lack of communication between lovers or heroes, completely confounded at how characters go out of their way to avoid solutions to peril? That is not good, emotional writing that invites viewers. It is poor, stupid, uncreativity on the part of the writer. I hate it.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:38 p.m. CST

    Late to the party...

    by Pendragon23

    So apologies if I am repeating what may already have been covered.<p> The fact that Future Peter has a scar indicates he never came in contact with Claire.<p> Future Hiro can't go back and kill Sylar as he does not "exist" then and also because he has already tried.<p> Future Hiro seemed surprised that there was a Future Claire and realized that his message to Present Day Peter was acted upon.<p>

  • May 1, 2007, 6:44 p.m. CST

    george

    by BadMrWonka

    but when did Peter see presentHiro? in the club, Nikkesica kept them from him and vice versa, when they went to save Hiro, Peter never made it into the room. so even if it was kinda lazy to have him invisibly hanging out in the bar, I don't think they ever met, so it wasn't as bad as you made it out to be, was it? or am I forgetting something?

  • May 1, 2007, 6:47 p.m. CST

    kept them from futurehiro and Ando, I meant...

    by BadMrWonka

    presenthiro never came close to Peter...

  • May 1, 2007, 6:51 p.m. CST

    and I thought I was pussy whipped...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...for letting the cat tell me when to get up and when to go to sleep...but at least I wasn't named after the cat...

  • May 1, 2007, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Also...

    by Pendragon23

    I seem to remember that Future Sylar took off as soon as he heard there were 2 Hiros...He knew his only chance was to kill Present Day Hiro and he was probably already freaked out that he had to kill Claire a second time...Future Sylar had realized that Future Hiro was successful in his attempt to alter the past...Future Claire meant that Present Day Sylar had no regeneration powers...Future Sylar knew that Future Hiro had successfully stabbed him in the past...if Present Day Hiro were to get back to the present, Sylar knew he would be stabbed again...only this time with none of Claire's power...that's why he broke cover and flew.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Pendragon

    by Petro45

    You're wrong - Futurepeter did come into contact with Claire - otherwise, Claire would be dead, and Futurepeter never would have survived his own explosion. There must be some other explanation for the scar, one we have yet to learn.

  • May 1, 2007, 6:54 p.m. CST

    cat's telling me...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...get off the damn computer and feed me bitch! She must be obeyed...see y'alls later...... ........... .......... ......... ........... ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... Damn You Wonka!

  • May 1, 2007, 6:55 p.m. CST

    As to who Peter's met and meets...

    by Valebant

    What if Peter met the Haitian? Is it like a showdown and who draws first, nullifies the other's power to nullify? <p> On another note, maybe having the Haitian's power is incompatible with having any other powers (hence, Sylar didn't take him out).

  • May 1, 2007, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Petro45

    by Valebant

    Futurepeter is presumably the Peter from the reality that present Hiro just left (unless he can jump dimensions). Thus, he HAS met Claire.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Petro45: The scar explanation (repost w/extra)

    by chrth

    The Scar: As I've said multiple times, scars are not a result of the injury process, they are the result of the healing process. If an injury never heals, it will never scar. Extra Part: We know that Claire has to pull parts of her body back together to heal them if sliced apare./extra If Peter had to pull his face back together, he might not have had the time to make sure the edges lined up perfectly to heal. So the scar does not contradict his healing power.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:02 p.m. CST

    Petro45

    by Pendragon23

    That's assuming that it was actually Peter and not Sylar disguised who blew up NY...I think that is still up in the air.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:03 p.m. CST

    2 Hiros, Ando, Mohinder, & Peter locked in room 2gether

    by George Newman

    FutureHiro, Ando and Peter get to PresentHiro and Mohinder. FutureHiro gets shot. Peter closes the door. Peter quietly stands around doing nothing while Hiro watches himself die. Parkman give instructions to his men, then he calls Nathan/Sylar. Sylar flies to the building. <p>All the While Peter could have confessed SOMETHING about being the cause of the explosion, but no, he keeps his mouth shut. For no reason. Other than to aid the writers' story. *fart sound*

  • May 1, 2007, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Peter and the Explosion

    by Pendragon23

    Future Peter saying he caused NY to blow up could be him referring to his inability to stop Sylar.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:11 p.m. CST

    pendragon

    by BadMrWonka

    it was Peter who blew up, why would he have told nikkesica otherwise in private?

  • May 1, 2007, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Sylar flies when Parkman tell him that Peter is there:

    by George Newman

    PARKMAN: The Haitian is Down! The Haitian is Down <p>SYLAR: What about Nakamura?</p> <p>PARKMAN: We can't get to him. Your brother is holding us off. If I don't get reinforcements now, it's all over, sir. Nakamura will escape</p> <p> Sylar flies off.</p> <p>Sylar wanted Hiro dead. He didn't care about his power. I don't know why, that sounds foolish, but that is what he put into motion; Mohinder kills Hiro while Nathan/Sylar is at the memorial.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:13 p.m. CST

    that was the plan anyway

    by George Newman

    that was the plan anyway

  • May 1, 2007, 7:16 p.m. CST

    I'm sure

    by kadayi

    There are plenty of Bus sized plot holes in that episode, but ignoring them I have to say that was an excellent 45 minutes of non-stop storyline and action. Pity we'll never get to see that Future Peter Vs Future Sylar fight in all it's glory..but it looked like it was going to be a corker ;D

  • May 1, 2007, 7:24 p.m. CST

    It goes against Sylar's profile

    by Valebant

    but a minion wouldn't be bad. Or an evil girlfriend. <p> Peter v. Sylar ends up with my money on Sylar. Peter may absorb powers, but I don't think he can absorb IQ points.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Some things that didn't make sense...

    by voxmortis

    1) Peter would have surely met Lindeman in those 5 years, so he could've healed Future Hiro. 2) Peter has met Parkman, so he could've read Sylar/Nathan's mind and known who the President was all along. 3) HRG has blocked Parkman before by thinking in Japanese - why didn't he do it this time? 4) Claire's hot as a brunette.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:42 p.m. CST

    BadMrWonka

    by Pendragon23

    Since I have already deleted the episode off my DVR, I can't go back and check...but I believe he said something akin to he was the cause of the explosion or it was his fault...either way, that's not saying he actually blew up himself...just that he feels responsible.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:42 p.m. CST

    this isn't about me, but

    by Napoleon Park

    Mr. Forp, I wasn't actually named after my cat. It's the 'porn star name' format: "take the name of your child hood pet and the street you lived on", in my case my cat Napoleon (named after Napoleon Solo) and Park St., S.W. So I wasn't named after Matt Parkman either, darn it. *** But back to "Heroes", what's the lead time on this show anyway, from the point where they can't do anymore script revisions until the show airs? Since it seems accepted here that the New York devastation is a literary parallel for 9/11, I wonder if President {Sylar's} mention of the young mutation who suffocated his whole school by draining out all the air was a deliberate reference to the Virginia Tech slayings?

  • May 1, 2007, 7:54 p.m. CST

    We named the _dog_ Indiana

    by Fount of Useless Info

    Sorry, this discussion of Napoleon Park's name just made me feel the need to quote that.

  • May 1, 2007, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Linderman will "heal" Sylar, Future Peter will return

    by Drath

    I think Linderman will resurrect Sylar after the finale when he "dies" by the sword. Hopefully Linderman's powers will be passed on to Peter so he can save some of Sylar's victims--I want Eden and Google Girl back! I think Future Peter will appear in place of Future Hiro to warn us about what Sylar is going to do to Nathan--but I don't see how that can happen if they stop the explosion. Unless, as others have said, this is like LOST or GARGOYLES and time cannot be rewritten. I also wish that Zach wasn't gone from the show, even if he is now going to be John Connor. I was so sure he had some kind of super power of his own and was going to surprise Claire with it. Speaking of Claire, I figure her future self wouldn't stay dead because she could regenerate if her head is put back together. So it's possible Sylar will get Claire's powers and become unkillable and Claire will still live. Ultimately saving the Cheerleader was more about other people getting her powers. Also, yes, Peter fucking ruled this episode, and I will be PISSED if they never do a decent Peter/Sylar fight. Nikki is still a dull character even in the future, though I liked her better as Peter's love interest than I liked Simone, and Parkman must have inherited "Jessica" because no way that asshole was the same guy! Sorry we didn't see him get killed, that would have been satisfying. And finally, I can't wait for Clea Duvall to be back. She should be a regular!

  • May 1, 2007, 7:58 p.m. CST

    i guess

    by slkboxrman

    rupee retired for the day, perhaps it was past his bedtime and his mom breast-fed him and tucked him in..lol anyways unless ur a master script writer and more skilled than those that do its pointless to point out and say that writers are lazy just because u think ur smarter. there are errors and flubs in every form of entertainment, even feature films...but whose to really say its a plot hole ? you ? or anyone else that thinks it is ? maybe its something the writers know and u dont..the people that think like that are the same people that think the LOST writers are making it up as they go, pure nonsense...and then getting upset because they dont reveal things quick enuf, if they revealed everything there would be no need to continue the show....just like when the star of greys anatomy was in a coma and close to death, u knew she wasnt going to die, otherwise no show.....so like i said in many other talkbacks, stop analyzing every inch of every show u watch and just enjoy, otherwise it ceases to be entertainment and just becomes....work...

  • May 1, 2007, 8 p.m. CST

    napolean

    by slkboxrman

    im pretty sure this episode was filmed quite some time before the incident in virginia tech, infact im sure the rest of the episodes for this season are finished...i saw something on the official site about the wrap party for the last episode being sometime last week....sorry

  • May 1, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST

    Pendragon23

    by leesheri

    You can still watch in on nbc.com. I honestly thought that Sylar told Peter something like, "We both know I wasn't the one who blew up NY" - I am paraphrasing, but go to the last scene and check it out.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:16 p.m. CST

    Future Peter must have had a way...

    by Fount of Useless Info

    to keep from blowing up without meeting Claire: (1) He had not met Claire before future Hiro came back to tell him to save her. (2) Claire was killed (in original timeline) by Sylar. (3) If Peter blew up, he had to survive because Future Hiro knew him as the powerful guy we saw last night. <P>Therefore, in the original timeline (Claire dies at homecoming), we are left wit two options (a) Peter did not blow up. It really was Sylar that time. (b) Peter was the one that blew up but he still survived.<P> Hve we ever seen any evidence that Ted's radioactive power would kill him? He hasn't gotten cancer like his wife. Claire was almost incenerated during "Company Man" and would have been dead without her powers, but he was not severly damaged. I think the power itself makes you partly immune to it from yourself. (It probably works that way with other powers or the Haitian would negate his negating and memory powers and Parkman would be caught in a horrifying endless feedback loop.)

  • May 1, 2007, 8:17 p.m. CST

    Leesheri

    by Fount of Useless Info

    You are absolutely right. Sylar did tell Peter that.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:21 p.m. CST

    It think it is now obvious

    by Valebant

    that whoever is the bomb does not blow up, they emit insane amounts of radiation but are not harmed themselves. As explained in this episode, the need to kill the cheerleader arose to take away the bomb man's ability to survive attempts to kill him, not to survive the blast.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:24 p.m. CST

    Kring and his gang are THIEVES

    by BrowncoatJedi

    Screw 'em. They should be innovating and pushing the envelope of comic book stories, Galactica-style. Instead, they lie and steal. This is a show for clueless morons.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:30 p.m. CST

    According to Hiro - Sylar was stabbed, blew up, regen

    by Tthenomad

    Future Hiro said not virbatum. "I stabbed Sylar then he blew up but he regen" Therefore before he went back in time he said "Save the cheerleader, save the world" it was a different timeline. Sylar may have been the bomb in that timeline. He may have been the one that blows up. As soon as the cheerleader was saved the timeline changed. Maybe this time it was Peter was the bomb. Instead of Sylar eating him it was Pete absorbing him. Now has that for non-stick!

  • May 1, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST

    If they were thieves

    by Valebant

    they would be charged with a crime. Instead, they are brilliantly exploiting an extraordinarily esoteric media format for the broadest media format available. Also, they are still providing access to the narrow format and probably increasing revenue for those outlets. They should be applauded.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:44 p.m. CST

    Sylar did not tell Peter that he blew up

    by Riker's revenge

    He basically told peter that he knew the truth, that Nathan covered the fact that Peter was the bomb by blaming Sylar. Not that he was the bomb.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:48 p.m. CST

    leesheri

    by Pendragon23

    Ok, I went and watched those parts online, and Peter is pretty specific in his comments that it was him...Sylar, too...oh well, we'll know a lot more in 3 weeks

  • May 1, 2007, 8:52 p.m. CST

    After 746 posts it inevitable that

    by NetProphet

    some of the same theories, arguments and thoughts are being repeated. DRATH - I just want to stake my claim to the Linderman healing Sylar theory (posted May 1, 2007 10:41:03 a.m.)!

  • May 1, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST

    So was I the only one that

    by RokurGepta

    could tell from the previews for this episode that Sylar was pretending to be Nathan Petrelli? It seems you all waved off my theory in last weeks talkback, but it panned out to be 100% correct. But nobody gave me any credit.... Anyways, this is my I told you so. I can't wait till next week.

  • May 1, 2007, 8:57 p.m. CST

    NetProphet

    by Pendragon23

    Here's hoping that nobody gets healed. It's hard to get invested in the fates of the characters if they keep "rising from the dead".

  • May 1, 2007, 9 p.m. CST

    testing

    by Phategod2

    testing

  • May 1, 2007, 9:14 p.m. CST

    See, the thing is...

    by Psynapse

    I'm fully aware that we the viewers can 'No-Prize' (10 points to the 1st comic geek to call that one) a number of explanations for what we saw. I.E.-Sylar survived being stabbed by Hiro using TK to suture his wounds until they healed (another 10 points to the geek that notes the issue of Uncanny X-Men I'm referring to here). I'm just rather annoyed by that trope being as cribbed as every other comic plotline of the last 50 plus years. What we were shown doesn't even add up an 'alternate universe' story for that very same reason.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Anyone remember....

    by RokurGepta

    Their world history, a famous King, you should all recognize the name... King Solomon, best known from his mines. Yes he is an actual factual historical figure. He once said something extremely wise. "There is nothing knew under the Sun" I mean how many billions of people live right now, now think about how many years, we have been living on terra firma. I have to believe that everything we think of has been thought of by someone else, and used in one way or another by some other chap. As for Tim Kring, I don't know if he really said that he'd never read comic books before creating the tv show Heroes, but that, my friends does sound like a total crock of shit. You don't go about creating anything about super heroes without being a fan of comics, you just don't. That would be like postulizing a working theory of cold fusion without knowing basic algrebra or physics. Also, You show me one hetero-sexual adult male that says he's never read a single comic book, and i'll show you a video of me eating my hat on youtube

  • May 1, 2007, 9:35 p.m. CST

    If anyone cares about the ratio of Heroes/24 posts this

    by Pennsy

    week, it's a bit more than 4:1.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:36 p.m. CST

    As a heterosexual (and married at that)

    by Valebant

    adult male who has never read a comic book... I posted Ecclesiastes 1:9 earlier.<p> "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there's nothing new under the sun." <p> Where's the link to a video of you eating your hat?

  • May 1, 2007, 9:37 p.m. CST

    but rokurgepta...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...how do you expect credit when you show up after everybody else leaves? I was too afraid of you after you said you got Isaac's power to bring you up...thought you might actually be Sylar...maybe you still are...once again...slowly...backing out of the room... (*whispers* damn you wonka....) p.s. "hetero-sexual male?" c'mon now!

  • May 1, 2007, 9:39 p.m. CST

    careful Valebant...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...someone's brains might be in that hat!

  • May 1, 2007, 9:49 p.m. CST

    As to nothing being new...

    by Valebant

    I was doing intestacy formulas the other day and I realized that the fractional difference between any two one-part fractions (1/2, 1/3, 1/97, &c.) was the absolute sum of the difference between the two denominators over the denominator of the two compared fractions multiplied. That is, the difference between 1/3 and 1/8 is (8-3)/(8*3) or 5/24. Sure felt like a discovery, but it's anything but new. Same as when I realized that the ultimately reduced sum of the sequence of numbers composing exponents of the number two will always result in the pattern of "1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5." I'm sure that's been discovered before, but it was new to me. How's that for pedantry, professor?

  • May 1, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    This is just like a "Lost" talkback

    by Rupee88

    which is not surprising because that's another show that they ripped off. Here's the formula for Heroes....take one part Lost and one part X-Men, and sprinkle in some well-known, classic comic book stories that we can rip off. This cooks up a popular show that people love to speculate about. The obvious thing missing from the recipe is any originality.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:55 p.m. CST

    campbell's brain soup..... mmmm mmmm goood

    by RokurGepta

    Valebrant... You telling me that you've never read a comic, and I being shown a guy that hasn't read a comic are two different things. I would need proof, that said dude had in fact never read a comic. I would accept a polygraph as proof. And Yes, I promise, to post a video of myself on youtube, eating my lucky hat... a very sweat stained chicago cubs baseball cap. Have you ever read the heroes web comic? Hell I've even read Christian comic books, i.e. a Noah's Ark comic book. I really don't believe there's an adult male in the educated world that hasn't read at least one comic book in their life.

  • May 1, 2007, 9:55 p.m. CST

    BrowncoatJedi

    by Rupee88

    Thanks you...the world has not gone totally mad and someone can still think clearly. I will sleep better at night knowing that I am not alone.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:02 p.m. CST

    leesheri

    by Rupee88

    I guess you are right and I should shut up and let you have your fun. I suppose my comments are like telling a 6 year old that there is no Santa Claus and that isn't very cool.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:03 p.m. CST

    How about

    by Valebant

    a signed affidavit? <p> I guess it depends on your definition of comic book. I read "comics" books. Far Side and Calvin & Hobbes, but never Batman, Superman &c. I read a graphic novel once, but that was Maus by Spiegelman.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:03 p.m. CST

    And time travel always has "plot holes"

    by Rupee88

    You can't name one story involving time travel that really doesn't have inconsistencies. So give Heroes a pass on that one. It is the least of its problems.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:06 p.m. CST

    RokurGepta: I was all set to take you seriously ...

    by chrth

    until you said your lucky hat was a Cubs hat. How lucky could a Cubs hat be?

  • May 1, 2007, 10:14 p.m. CST

    Time travel without plot holes: 12 Monkeys

    by chrth

    Although it did have a couple of contrivances (not noticing the picture until later, for example) to maintain the conceit of its time travel.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:15 p.m. CST

    My lucky Cubs hat...

    by RokurGepta

    I was wearing in in two different car accidents, in which I should have died, yet I walked away from them. Now, do I really believe that wearing a Chicago Cubs baseball cap will bring me luck? Let's just say I haven't walked out of any casinos smiling. It's more like my favorite hat than a lucky hat, I just choose to call it lucky.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:18 p.m. CST

    RokurGepta: Fair enough

    by chrth

    Two more quick posts, and then bed

  • May 1, 2007, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Post #1: Heroes versus 24 talkback

    by chrth

    Not that I really care (since I watch both), but 24 has dropped to the bottom of the top 10 while Heroes continues to dominate the #1 spot.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Post #2: There better be a Tom Poston RIP Talkback

    by chrth

    when I get up tomorrow morning.<p> Night all.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:25 p.m. CST

    After a second viewing and much TB reading...

    by fedaykin

    I'm going to try and board this train of thought in a way that I don't think has been browbeat to death. <br> <br> Scenario A (now impossible): <br> Peter exploding could be the result of an epic battle with Sylar. In one possible future, Sylar killed Claire prior to the NY event. Peter could possibly hold his own at this point, getting Claire's power via contact with Sylar in the battle. However, getting the knack of such a power while in the middle of major combat could cause an overload, which means both Sylar and Peter survive the blast, and Nathan is alive to pin the wrap on Sylar. Sylar recovers in hiding, is pissed at the frame-job, and steps into Nathan's shoes later down the road after meeting Candace. Which could bring us to the future that Future Hiro knew. However, it was established in the opening sequence last night that the future everyone was in was a (albeit slightly) different one than Future Hiro had left. Therefore, that future is no longer a possibility. <br> <br> Scenario B (potential): <br> Peter saves Claire, but Hiro leaps into the future before he confronts and skewers Sylar. This means that the Peter/Sylar fight still happens, but the strain is still too much for Peter and he goes nuclear anyway. How Sylar survives without Claire's power is up in the air, but these events could lead to the future we saw last night. It's still a possible future until Sylar is killed. <br> <br> Scenario C (potential): <br> Ok, this is how I think the season could wrap up. According to Future Hiro in the episode, Real Time Hiro has to go back to his place in the continuum and kill Sylar the day after the election. That's the same day the city explodes. If Hiro kills Sylar <i>before</i> Peter fights Sylar, the catalyst for Peter going nuclear will never come into play, thus preventing Peter from blowing up the city. This makes sense to me because Hiro wouldn't be able to survive the blast if he were fighting Sylar at the same time as Peter. Sure, he could teleport out of the area, but it would be completely against his character. Granted, that kind of guilt could be why Future Hiro was so morose, but Real Time Hiro won't go that route after seeing how he had become. <br> My personal theory is that Hiro will be unable to kill Sylar on his initial attempt, the one we saw in previews for next week. This means Sylar and Peter will meet in NYC and battle, but something will cause Hiro to finally suck it up and kill Sylar. However, by the time he does it, Peter is starting to go nuclear like he did in the alley with Dr. Invisible. Hiro, lacking the Dr's mean left hook, does the only thing an adrenaline-fueled Japanese virgin with a sword can do and cleaves Peter's face, hitting the brain and knocking Peter out. Peter heals when Hiro removes his blade, but is so drained from the energy expenditure that his face doesn't fully heal before he goes into another coma, leaving his ultimate fate for Season Two's premier. <br> <br> Shoot it down if you want, I'm still new here. But I'm goin to bed.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:25 p.m. CST

    prove you never read a comic?

    by Onomaki Forp

    you can't prove a negative! well...except sort of in mathematics...like you can prove the non-existance of the largest possible number, by simply adding 1 to that number...ergo there is no "largest possible number". But proving the non-existance of a tangible object can't be done unless you can look in every part of the universe. Likewise you can not prove somebody has never read a comic book - unless you were able to monitor them for their entire lives.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Rupee88

    by Petro45

    You have to give Hiro credit for one thing -- since episode 1 its been setting storylines into place that are now seamlessly coming together. Its extremely, extremely rare for one of these serial shows to accomplish that. Particularly when about 20 times more things happen in a single episode of Heroes than in a season's worth of Lost (a show that I do enjoy, not trying to start this debate again). Even if Heroes steals general ideas from Watchment, X-Men, etc, that doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of original elements to its storyline, and it is bringing together all of these elements in a spectacular way.

  • May 1, 2007, 10:39 p.m. CST

    I love "12 Monkeys" too.

    by Rupee88

    It is fun AND original. I'm sure there are some "time travel" inconsistencies in it though...they are inevitable with that "genre".

  • May 1, 2007, 10:40 p.m. CST

    And "Terminator 2" as well.

    by Rupee88

    That's another great time travel movie.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:09 p.m. CST

    tthenomad

    by slkboxrman

    u must have not really been watching, hiro never came close to even saying that to past hiro.... all he said was that a man named sylar exploded in the heart of the city...

  • May 1, 2007, 11:11 p.m. CST

    Hey I've no problem with repeating themes....

    by Psynapse

    I've read More than human, X-Men,Watchmen et al and have seen Architects of fear (on local channel 44 in 1979 or so...), I'm just annoyed at thos show being a swiss cheese version of those previous themes. Any job great or small, do it well or not at all an all that...

  • May 1, 2007, 11:17 p.m. CST

    Damnable lack of an edit feature...

    by Psynapse

    Grrr

  • May 1, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST

    12 Monkeys wasn't original...

    by voxmortis

    it was inspired by La Jetee. Same as Heroes is 'inspired' by every single super hero/villain story that has ever been told - just as every future super hero/villian story MUST BE inspired by what has gone before.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    I just want to remind everyone that...

    by Chriss

    ... this is just a TV show. Sorry, if there are plot holes, paradoxes, and inconsistencies. It was written by humans and it's a fantasy. Enough already with trying to figure out how to make every little bit of it work in with reality - it's not. Ya'll remind me of the bible-tards who will twist reality around so that their little stories can fit in with the known universe. It's a fucking story.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:47 p.m. CST

    Superman was inspired by the Christ mythology

    by Chriss

    ... but ya'll don't go bitching about that in every Superman article.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Good Stuff

    by turketron

    Just watched Heroes tonight (I still don't know why I watch 24 live and not Heroes) and THAT WAS A DAMN FINE HOUR OF TELEVISION! Wow. Just wow. President Sylar! What a tweest! Peter Petrelli was uber badass, hell even Matt Parkman was badass! Crazy!

  • May 1, 2007, 11:56 p.m. CST

    glad to see Rupee88 is back

    by BadMrWonka

    scroll up to see my impression of the guy, based on some of his previous posts.<p>(short version: no one smiles on Sutdio 60, so it sucks. cute kid in pursuit of happyness should die, so it sucks)<p>and the broken record of Heroes (a show about people with superpowers) ripping off other shows/comic/movies about people with superpowers.<p>I don't go shit on the Lost talkbacks (would that be redundant?) yet people always jump into the Heroes talkbacks jsut to whine and insult the people that like the show.<p>so let me paypal you a sholw shitpile of attention Rupee, give me your e-mail. then we can go on discussing the show we love without people's nonsensical rants and backpeddling and sniveling when anyone contradicts you with a valid point or example.<p>and before you complain that I'm being unfair to you, rupee...you're talking about a critically acclaimed, top ten show that everyone agrees is just getting better and better, and which just had it's best episode thus far, and your own whiny-power is simply to refer to the entire group of writers for the show as "lazy talentless hacks". <p>honestly, I'm usually not the one starting fights or arguments in the talkback, but come on kiddo...you need to fuck off.

  • May 1, 2007, 11:59 p.m. CST

    Chriss

    by BadMrWonka

    be sure you understand the difference between the whiners on here that complain about what they perceive to be plot holes, and believe that if a character can fly, they stole it from Marvel; and the people like me, chrth, lesheeri, george newman, onomaki forp, who are simply discussing all the possible outcomes, and debating what the timelines might be.<p>not everyone here discussing this stuff is complaining, brother.

  • May 2, 2007, 12:10 a.m. CST

    Word Up

    by George Newman

    Word Up

  • May 2, 2007, 12:17 a.m. CST

    Chrth!

    by chromedome

    Just wanted to say Hi, sir.<p>You are working HARD in this TB. Time travel & its paradoxes always make my head hurt. (This is why I began to limit my own personal time travels. I really didn't need to anymore once I got a dvr and can time-shift BSG instead--much much easier!)<p>..said the joker to the thief.

  • May 2, 2007, 12:23 a.m. CST

    In no particular order

    by Napoleon Park

    sorry if I haven't read every single one of the nearly 800 posts, so if I mention something someone brought up, well, sorry. *** Agreed, chrth, Tom Poston is Way Cool - take it from someone who remembers the Steve Allen Show - and deserves a commemorative obit/talkback here. *** I've seen the Superman as Jesus figure arguments but you know that Kal-El in the rocket = Moses in the bullrushes, right? *** I've been calling my friend Andy "Ando" for a few months now and he doesn't seem to mind. I used to call him "Poozer". (No, I didn't "rip that off" from Kilowog on JLU, we both know where it came from) *** Okay, now my actual "Heroes" question: When Sylar reached through a door and grabbed Peter, "How did he know he was there?" X-ray vision? Super-hearing? Parkman's ESP? Some other ability? The third answer's the only one that makes sense to me. Unless there was a a monitor on his side of the door and a camera on Peter's. Which I didn't notice. I bring this up because someone way up there mentioned Sylar NOT absorbing Parkman's mind-reading, but that's the only explanation I can think of for his knowing where someone is located on the other side of a closed door he can't see through. *** So, if they CAN'T change time and the second Season continues with New York destroyed, post-blast, would that be daring and innovative or predictable and what you're expecting? If they do succeed and Hiro's time-traveling power does allow him to change the past, will he go back and save Charlie? Does that explain how shot Simone is returning? And you don't need to say "sorry" if you prove me wrong, I'm not emotionally invested in these theories, I just toss them out for discussion. *** Oh, on keeping the talkbacks separate, I love both Heroes and Lost - my favorite is probably whichever one I saw last. I've only watched "24" once - at a friend who wanted to see it's place. But I've never dropped into a "24" talkback, either. I may be opinionated, but I wouldn't jump in on a discussion of a show I don't know anything about just to drop a steamy log. It's a free country, of course, but it's just not something I'd do.

  • May 2, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST

    I've read the plot summary of Watchmen...

    by jerseycajun

    And from what I can discern, Rupee88 and others claiming Heroes is a rip off of that serial is factually and legally mistaken. There are more than enough structural differences to make Heroes its own unique expression of ideas commonly found elsewhere in literature, not just in comics.

  • May 2, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST

    Lovin Heroes

    by chromedome

    Like seeing Peter finally in a powerful, confident frame of mind, rather than his lost, whiney, confused state. <p>Mohinder does have a power--he can numb the minds and spirits of all viewers everywhere. <p>HRG is more and more fun to watch.<p>Ando and both Hiros are spot-on perfectly done. "I scare me" ...priceless!<p>Lots of fun stuff in this return from hiatus. Glad there are shows on that take chances and do something unusual for television and are not cancelled in their second week! <p>24 is turning into a lame-ass soap opera, with 80% of the "drama" coming from interpersonal relationship conflicts. So Heroes is welcome on my screen, and then Eureka over the summer, and hopefully Dresden comes back, and then.....<p>BSG!!!!!!!!!

  • May 2, 2007, 12:40 a.m. CST

    Napoleon Park rips a big fat brain fart

    by George Newman

    Your third answer is the least likely! <p>"I bring this up because someone way up there mentioned Sylar NOT absorbing Parkman's mind-reading, but that's the only explanation I can think of for his knowing where someone is located on the other side of a closed door he can't see through."</p> How could Sylar have Parkman's power, if Parkman is alive and well, standing right in front of him, trying to get into the room?

  • May 2, 2007, 12:43 a.m. CST

    point is.....

    by slkboxrman

    that everything we see in the movies and on TV was inspired by something else that came before it....even the shows that rupee probably does like, which are prob very few.... so to say something ripped off something else is retarded...inspiration is not plaigiarization (not sure if thats a word) RUPEE is the kind of dude that would fuck a hot chick and then tell her that she wasnt tight enuf or didnt moan loud enuf so he has to dump her....he has standards, dont ya know.... lol

  • May 2, 2007, 12:47 a.m. CST

    hahah

    by slkboxrman

    "i look mad" "go talk to yourself" "i scare me" the best exchange in TV history......close 2nd is the series finale of star trek:voyager where admiral janeway is talking to captain janeway and she questions her older self and she says "in case you havent noticed, i outrank you"

  • May 2, 2007, 12:50 a.m. CST

    Rupee88

    by RokurGepta

    12 Monkeys is not an original movie, it's a remake of a French Movie.

  • May 2, 2007, 1 a.m. CST

    My favorite Time Travel movie is.....

    by RokurGepta

    Time Bandits...... It's got everything you want, Sean Connery, David Warner, most of the Monty Python Team, Thieving Midgets (including Kenny Baker), Time Travel. Name a Time Travel movie you enjoyed more than Time Bandits.... I Triple dog dare you.

  • May 2, 2007, 1:02 a.m. CST

    Post-structuralist Poo.

    by Valebant

    Papa Jacques, Foucault, Barthes would agree there, slkboxrman. The worst place to look when discussing a literary work is to the author. An author's work is not the author's, rather, the author is a conduit; "his" work is that of the collective. There is no original thought. <p>The author is dead.<p> Man, I'm glad I'm done with undergrad.<p> By the by, I wrote my thesis on Tolkien and the post-structuralist/postmodernist shift after the wars. I think he agreed by disagreeing. Hyper-structuralism and whatnot. It's all poo. Especially my thesis: "The Hobbit Hubris." Perhaps I'll revamp it and post it somewhere.

  • May 2, 2007, 1:03 a.m. CST

    'All the comic geeks in the writers room'

    by TheStev

    For all you 'OMG Kring is lying if he said he never read a comic book' haters out there. This is from Greg Beeman's (producer/director) blog: <br><br> 'It reminded me of X-Men 141-142 “Days of Future Past” (which I bought off the rack as a kid and still own.) I know all the comic geeks in the writer’s room - Loeb, Alexander, Joe Pokaski (who wrote the episode) and Aron Coleite used that as a touchstone.'

  • May 2, 2007, 1:15 a.m. CST

    discussing authorial intentionality in a talkback?

    by BadMrWonka

    Valebant, I'll have to ice skate to work in the morning, cos I think hell just froze over...

  • May 2, 2007, 1:21 a.m. CST

    speaking of Authors... R.I.P. Kurt Vonnegut

    by RokurGepta

    I heard Kurt Vonnegut passed away last week. :(

  • May 2, 2007, 1:29 a.m. CST

    Speaking of poo-

    by Valebant

    too-weet? So he did. Unstuck in time like Hiro. Vonnegut is a strong example of post-structuralism as well. And an example of a dead author. Loved the guy. I always liked his appearance in Mother Night as the protagonist has realized he has no reason to move anymore and Vonnegut passes by. Reminds me of Peirce and defining what nothing is for some reason though it doesn't fit. <p> As to hell freezing over, that reminds me of one the few forwards I've ever kept - the discussion of whether Hell would be an endothermic or exothermic reaction. <p> Ah well.

  • May 2, 2007, 2:34 a.m. CST

    I got that forward too!

    by BadMrWonka

    very funny stuff. my mom is a college professor, and she sent it to me.<p>ok I really have to go to bed, now...

  • May 2, 2007, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Butterfly Effect

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    I was assuming Future Hiro brain doesn't fill with altered history every time he teleports or it would fry him. So Future Hiro was the only character who didn't change after the Cheerleader was saved. I thought it was kind of cool they lead you to believe it was the dead cheerleader future at first, and then Mohinder talked about the train, Claire showed up alive, Peter recognizing Ando, etc. I'm feeling some Sylar shapeshifting into Peter leading to Hiro accidently giving him the scar as an alternate to the nuke theory.

  • May 2, 2007, 3:17 a.m. CST

    The Jacket

    by RokurGepta

    I'm wondering when Peter is going to start time travelling toooooooo. <p> And of course at some point we're gonna see the whole mirror universe plot used, and we'll see Spock and Sulu with goatees doing hail Sylar's....

  • May 2, 2007, 3:22 a.m. CST

    So...

    by Valebant

    any guesses as to what the comic book page that Future Hiro gave Ando contains? <p> http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hirocomicdn8.png <p> As I stated earlier, I'm thinking it is how Ando dies.

  • May 2, 2007, 3:38 a.m. CST

    Valebrant

    by RokurGepta

    I concur <p> on other subjects anyone know anything about the new show coming soon to the cw network. I believe it's called hidden palms. It loooks like moldy cheez.

  • May 2, 2007, 4:02 a.m. CST

    Too Powerful?

    by MarkoOhNo

    Every once in awhile I see someone who says that Sylar & Peter are too powerful, unbalance the show and have to leave. To this, I cry shenanigans - Heroes is no more unbalanced than X-Men. Take Wolverine for instance. He cannot be killed. Period. (Although, theoretically, if he were kept in a vaccum long enough or if you somehow managed to sever his head & play keepaway, he might die.) Lace Claire's bones with adamantium and you'd have a female declawed Wolverine with a sweet demeanor & nice body. lol And Rogue. At one point, her powers were identical to Peter's, being able to recall the powers she'd mimicked in the past. Are they gods? No. They can be incapacitated, outnumbered, overpowered. Even the most powerful individuals often need teammates. Even they have their vulnerabilities. I think they make the show interesting. However, I don't think Sylar is long for this world. (At least not the Sylar of the show's primary plane of reality. heh I'm sure one with Hiro's interdimensional travel ability will pop up eventually.)

  • May 2, 2007, 4:19 a.m. CST

    Us versus Them.

    by Napoleon Park

    I forget whose idea it was to keep track, but ... 183 posts for "24" and over 810 and climbing for this week's "Heroes" (Arms pumped in air like Hiro) We Win!!!

  • May 2, 2007, 4:20 a.m. CST

    All I really want to know is...

    by RokurGepta

    Who the frakity frak is Shenkar, and when are we hearing his/her/its voice?

  • May 2, 2007, 4:40 a.m. CST

    Helllllooo...Newwwwwman.

    by Napoleon Park

    Good work with the theories, too bad about having to repost it all those times. Big fat brain fart? I suggest five possible ways for Sylar to know exactly where Peter is standing on the other side of a closed door: super-hearing, x-ray vision, he absorbed Parkman's extra sensory perception, an unseen monitor system or 'other'. I said Parkman's mind reading is most likely, so you reply that it's least likely. Really? Less likely that "X-Ray vision" or invisible monitors? Please explain or propose an alternate theory of explanation. Okay, I see your point, Sylar seems to only absorb powers of people he kills. So it's impossible for him to have Parkman's powers... unless some of the other speculation at this discussion is correct, in which case: 1.) Sylar kills Parkman and uncaps his skull, 2.) he removes his brain and examines it, absorbing the power. (Haven't the writers mentioned in an interview that, no Sylar doesn't actually need to eat the brain?), 3.) He replaces the brain in the skull and 4.) Linderman, feeling Parkman may be useful for other purposes, uses his healing/resurrection power to 'heal' Parkman back to life. *** There, see, it is possible, given the rules this show and these talkbacks have set up. Is it the correct theory or even the most likely? Like I said, I'm only offering it for discussion. Is it more likely than "X-Ray Vision"? Um, I think so. But. Hey, I'm not coming here looking to wrassle. I wouldn't have taken offense except that I really am a big fat brain fart.

  • May 2, 2007, 4:51 a.m. CST

    Wow this thread is STILL active...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...even with a kickass Silver Surfer trailer and Cumpston's Spider-Man 3 review...

  • May 2, 2007, 4:51 a.m. CST

    Except...

    by Valebant

    Linderman can only heal, not resurrect the dead.

  • May 2, 2007, 4:58 a.m. CST

    re: Except...

    by RokurGepta

    it seems a lot of people need to be reminded of that time and time and time again. <p> Valebant, and Onomaki Forp... what other shows do you guys watch?

  • May 2, 2007, 5:05 a.m. CST

    Trik raises an interesting point:

    by Napoleon Park

    "Peter and Sylar will both keep acquiring powers, until they are stupidly powerful. And Hiro will end up just being... a reset button." To delve in classic fanboy geekdom, who's stronger, The Thing or The Hulk? Who's stronger, Superman or Captain Marvel? But with characters with multiple powers, it's not who's strongest but who's more powerful. Superman (strength, speed, flight, x-ray/heat/telescopic/microscopic vision, super-ventriloquism) or Martian Manhunter (strength, flight, walks through walls, reads minds, invisibility, telepathy). Heroes has two characters who can absorb the powers of other enhanced beings. And President Petrelli (Sylar) said there were something like 200,000 such beings. Peter cold get the power of everyone of them he can track down and meet - but President Sylar actually can monitor, register and track them and bring them into custody - and kill them with his 'cure' if he needs them dead to get their powers. So both are totally off the scale by super-hero standards - or potentially could be. Imagine that, this little low budget TV show could potentially create the originas of the two most powerful superheroes in the history of the genre, each with thousands of super-powers. Who'd win, Super-Skrull, Super-Adaptoid or The Mimic? (Powers of the Fantastic Four, early Avengers or original X-men respectively. Gee, Stan Lee sure did recycle ideas, didn't he?) But IF Hiro Nakamura really can not only travel back and forward through time but actually manage to change past events, he's be beyond super-herodom. Of course both Peter and Sylar would want his ability, but so would every major government, corporation, terrorist organization and multi-billionaire investor in the world. Hey, Hiro, go back and pick me up some cheap Polaroid, IBM, Atari, Sony and Microsift stock, would'ja please?

  • May 2, 2007, 5:09 a.m. CST

    Hmm...

    by Valebant

    I don't really. I watch Jeopardy! and sometimes House (only because I have family that tell me I remind them of House). I do watch stuff on G4TV and Spike. Not committed watching, just will always stop on COPS, Ninja Warrior, X-Play and other such fodder. With my wife I watch Project Runway and Girls Next Door.

  • May 2, 2007, 5:09 a.m. CST

    Here is the interview with Bryan Fuller...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ... he states that yes, Sylar is mixing his victims DNA with his own by eating their brains...but they wanted to leave that implied...for fear of "appearing silly" Of course they sort of gave it all away when Sylar practically drooled as he said "I want to sink my teeth in!" http://www.comicspodcasts.com/?p=500

  • May 2, 2007, 5:11 a.m. CST

    Peter already has Hiro's power.

    by RokurGepta

    In the future Peter stops time. And since peter just has to be near someone to get there powers, Peter acquired Hiro's Powers on the subway.

  • May 2, 2007, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Not arguing the point, but (yes I am...)

    by Napoleon Park

    Okay, Linderman can take a trimmed and rootless, dried, twisted, gnarled dead rose with petals, leaves, stem and thorns all as charred black as wrought iron, and "heal" it back to life. I mean no religious disrespect by my use of the word resurrect to mean "heal". Well, doctors can disconnect, remove and replace a human heart from a 'clinically dead' patient and 'heal' them back to life. So Sylar could pop the screw-cap skull off Parkman, living, near dead, clinically dead or just recently dead, examine the brain without damaging it ...too much, in time to close him up and have Linderman "heal" him within the limitations of real live modern medical science, not just Heroes-ic sci-fience. And it's still more likely than "X-Ray vision". (Although I admit an alternate explanation of X-Ray vision as a psychic ability that allows the user to perceive sights not directly visible to their physical line of sight is probably even more likely. But so far we haven't seen Sylar use any powers we didn't already see or know about him acquiring.) Feel free to prove me wrong or mock the idea, but I'm still waiting for an explanation of how Sylar knew Peter was on the other side of that door. *** ("screw-cap brain" copyright Steve Martin, "The Man With Two Brains") *** Yes, Mr. Forp, still active. Best episode ever of the best new show of the year, so why not? It's exciting. Talk backs haven't been this much fun since "Lost" season one. (Funny, the best episode of "Heroes" is set five years into a future that may never occur, and the best episode(s) of "Star Trek: Enterprise" were the ones in the Mirror Universe in which none of the regular Enterprise characters actually appeared at all. Oh, don't act surprised, you had to know I was a Trekkie.)

  • May 2, 2007, 5:30 a.m. CST

    what do I watch? ..."that would be telling"...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...of current shows i watch, Desperate Housewives, Boston Legal, Brothers and Sisters, The Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad, (but some of those are opposite each other) The Daily Show, Colbert, The Tudors, The Sopranos, Dexter (when it comes back), Planet Earth (in HD), CSI (if Hodges isn't the miniature killer...then who is? Sara?), CSI Miami (but not CSI NY), Ugly Betty, Shark, ...the Significant Other likes to watch stuff like Dancing with the Stars and American Idol (boring now that Mangina's been voted off) which is odd since *he's the butch one*...and of course Football matches (and I mean what the rest of the planet calls Football not what the US or Australia does). I gets my news from the BBC...even when I'm here in the States. Oh yes, and the Hitler Channel. These are some of the shows I watch whilst staying in this country...

  • May 2, 2007, 5:34 a.m. CST

    No.

    by Valebant

    That doesn't make any sense. Linderman was in Viet Nam with Papa Petrelli and found he could only heal, not resurrect (not an offensive word). I think that's part of his bitterness about his abilities. Anyhow, it's been five years, I'm sure Sylar could easily have found someone with X-ray vision. Even without seeing through the door, Peter et al were talking and Sylar could hear them. Furthermore, as posted recently, there is an interview that lends credence to the view that Sylar destroys brains in order to figure them out, though I'd say he that destroys a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom. Maybe that should be the theme of this Talkback.

  • May 2, 2007, 5:34 a.m. CST

    As for 24 ... never seen it...

    by Onomaki Forp

    Lost?...watched the first season on DVD...have the second season...haven't got around to watching it yet...(still on DVD's I bought in April '06) ...all this viewing...how do I have time to travel the globe like I do?

  • May 2, 2007, 5:38 a.m. CST

    anyone whose done a bit of gardening...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...knows a black, gnarled, twisted, dried plant can still be alive... even rootless and cut...

  • May 2, 2007, 5:47 a.m. CST

    Onomaki Forp

    by RokurGepta

    you have teleportation powers don't you? you can admit it, I won't tell anyone, I promise. <p> Alot of plants are like starfish, you cut off a small piece of the plant, and plant it, and a new plant will grow. Ivy for example is one of the most difficult plants to kill. <p> Why do people think it was a Rose that linderman brought back to life? It was so not a rose.

  • May 2, 2007, 5:56 a.m. CST

    Neill Cumpston's Mom's review...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...this thread rocks...but the Spidey 3 review not by Neill Cumpston, but his sweet little silver-haird Mum, is worth checking out. "Mr. McQweeny" Ha. "Penises that look like knives" hurt myself laughing at that bit...

  • May 2, 2007, 5:59 a.m. CST

    I've decided not to be a

    by Valebant

    globe trotter. Turned down a position working in E.U. law... now I have no summer job and time to post at 7am. <p> Sure about the flower, I'm not a botanist. What I didn't like was the way he used his powers. Too delicate.

  • May 2, 2007, 6:13 a.m. CST

    what information do we know...

    by RokurGepta

    about season 2? When does season 2 air? do we know who will be returning? <p> wouldn't it be interesting to watch an entire season that tell's the story of linderman, mama patrelli, etc?

  • May 2, 2007, 6:25 a.m. CST

    In London...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...I watch the Doctor of course...(although this can be seen here on Sci-Fi and BBC America) Big news right now is that Reggie Yates of TOTP had been cast to play Martha's little brother... (will we ever get a black Doctor?) ...Graham Norton (whose American show tanked) is still going strong... In Japan you can't beat the Battsu/Downtown shows... I kinda like Deutsche Superstar which is just like Idol...only the finalists are cuter and more talented (and they all sing in English!) ... and when I stay in da islands I watch da kine reruns of Kikaida, Kikaida 01, and Kamen Rider V3. Bokku-wa Shonen Kamen Raida-tai!!!

  • May 2, 2007, 6:30 a.m. CST

    I thought Nikki/jessica..

    by TimMighty

    transforms into a HulkThing somewhen...if not..kill that flat haired ho.

  • May 2, 2007, 6:35 a.m. CST

    In Brussels

    by Valebant

    I watched some form of Idol and it was awful. They tried singing American songs and the accents were ridiculous. The guy who won sang "True Colors" and the judges were crying. I was too, but for different reasons.

  • May 2, 2007, 6:39 a.m. CST

    RokurGepta is right about plants

    by chrth

    We still have the Ivy from my wife's wedding bouquet (approaching 9 years), it's almost died like 40 times, but a small clipping in a juice glass of water always revives.<p> And don't get me started on rosebushes. They're supposed to be so hard to grow, but everyone I try to eliminate comes back!

  • May 2, 2007, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Molly's Power - My Guess

    by Oozer3993

    My guess is she has the same powers as Jason from X-Men 2. She can manipulate a person's brain to make them perceive things that aren't there. Make them hallucinate essentially. She could then distract Sylar while one of the other heroes kills him. <Spoilers Ahead> In the teaser for next weeks episode, was time supposed to be frozen when Sylar moved his eye? Cause I don't see how he could do that. Unless it's actually Peter with Missytique's power and of course Hiro's power as well. </Spoiler>

  • May 2, 2007, 6:44 a.m. CST

    I miss...

    by Valebant

    the Invisible Man. Wonder when he'll show up again. Or maybe he's been around all this time.

  • May 2, 2007, 6:44 a.m. CST

    And as for Watchmen (as it seems to be falling on

    by chrth

    deaf ears), I'm apparently the only one who has read it. Adrian Veidt planned and caused the mass death in New York. Linderman -- as far as we can tell -- has not. All he has done is foreseen its occurrence (via Isaac's paintings) and is not doing anything to stop it because he sees benefit from it. If Linderman is the architect, there are way too many coincidences and contrivances involved (remember, Adrian did everything *without* the 'heroes') because of the way the bomb is being set up. So enough with the 'Watchmen ripoff' posts. People have been taking advantage of a bad situation since Nero persecuted the Christians for starting the fire in Rome.

  • May 2, 2007, 6:59 a.m. CST

    I can't believe this is approaching TF type numbers...

    by just pillow talk

    Bravo people, bravo.

  • May 2, 2007, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Here's a hot show on E4 right now...skins

    by Onomaki Forp

    http://www.channel4.com/player/v2/player.jsp?showId=4132

  • May 2, 2007, 7:06 a.m. CST

    I know a little of this and a little of that

    by RokurGepta

    I've worked in a variety of fields, from landscape development, to building computers, I've traveled a bit as well, and along the way I've gained some knowledge, and acquired some skills. Unfortunately I can be a know it all jerk at times :( <p> Anyways, here's my list of most of the shows I currently watch Heroes, Lost, How I Met Your Mother, October Road, The Riches, Psych, Monk, Battlestar Galactica, Stargate SG-1 n Atlantis, Dresden Files, Veronica Mars, Smallville, Supernatural.

  • May 2, 2007, 7:08 a.m. CST

    where can I get a jelly baby in america

    by RokurGepta

    I forgot to mention Doctor Who!!!!!!!!

  • May 2, 2007, 7:16 a.m. CST

    Many American Supermarkets have a British food section

    by Onomaki Forp

    I've found Marmite, Salad Creme, REAL Cadbury bars (not the ones made by Hershey's) but if your Local Shop (heh, heh, heh) doesn't carry them, then here: http://www.amazon.com/Bassetts-Jelly-Babies-215gr-7-6oz/dp/B000KCXKOQ/ref=sr_1_1/102-3738530-1008123?ie=UTF8&s=gourmet-food&qid=1178107988&sr=1-1 fill all them gaps!!!

  • May 2, 2007, 7:19 a.m. CST

    I Think I Have it Figured Out

    by mcordy

    Sherman and Peabody go back five years. The WABAC machine is programmed and...wait a minute...wrong talkback. Sorry

  • May 2, 2007, 7:30 a.m. CST

    Maybe the WABAC machine is what ...

    by chrth

    Linderman needs Micah to fix!

  • May 2, 2007, 8:22 a.m. CST

    Tick Tock, Tick Tock...

    by Abin Sur

    I can tell, it's gonna be one of those days where the Lost TB doesn't start until late this afternoon. Nuts!

  • May 2, 2007, 8:27 a.m. CST

    The Lost Talkback is delayed because Herc is preparing

    by chrth

    a long and graceful tribute talkback to Tom Poston.

  • May 2, 2007, 8:48 a.m. CST

    i'm in ur chronologic anomoly...

    by Onomaki Forp

    paradoxing ur continuum! (insert picture of adorable cat in police call-box)

  • May 2, 2007, 9:11 a.m. CST

    You know what? KISS MY ASS

    by Psynapse

    The show DOES have a crapload of plot holes and can't even tell it's story in the format it's presenting itself in (anyone who didn't go chasing the online comic had NO idea how Sylar was back in captivity after Eden pulled her melon-bomb for example). I'm expressing my dissatisfaction with that, If that makes me a 'hater and 'whiner' what-the-fuck-ever. I'm one of the geeks that supported the industry (for many years no less) that made this show possible in the first place. How gauche of me to think I have a right to have an opinion....

  • May 2, 2007, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Psynapse, who are you responding to? Just curious

    by chrth

    Also, if you're gauche, you're more likely to have a left than a right (sorry, poor language humor)

  • May 2, 2007, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Only in rustic France Chrth.....

    by Psynapse

    Personally, I prefer to be known as sinistral. Wasn't responding to you Chrth (we already know you have intellect and courtesy) but rather a few other posters that etiquette requires I not name unless they also attack me in specifics. As I said, I'm not decrying a lack of originality in the show just an annoyance at the half-assed execution of the story.

  • May 2, 2007, 9:57 a.m. CST

    not that anyone asked

    by BadMrWonka

    but I watch:<p>studio 60, office, scrubs (I used to watch my name is earl, then I found out it was a scientology shitstorm, and I can't support that), daily show, colbert report, anything on A&E, a lot of discovery science specials, anything on Reel channel (their series on directors is great), sopranos, and I loved Penn and Teller's bullshit, but I don't have Showtime anymore, I don't even know if it's still on.<p>bring back West Wing Mondays on Bravo! sometimes I would call in sick to work in advance on Tuesdays just so I could sit in front of the TV from 7pm to 2am watching West Wing, eating rice cakes and drinking red wine. oh, those were the days...<p>so in the interest of keeping this TB going as long as possible (up yours, 24!) what about favorite films? let's say top 3 or so...

  • May 2, 2007, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Bad BadMrWonka! No TB bumping for unrelated reasons

    by chrth

    Stick to the topic or let the thread die until next week.

  • May 2, 2007, 10:06 a.m. CST

    1) Some Like it Hot...

    by Onomaki Forp

    2) 1,2,3 (also by Billy Wilder) and 3) Honky Tonk Freeway. and of course Damn you Wonka! Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (the original) would be in the top 10.

  • May 2, 2007, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Linderman will revive Sylar, Sylar will eat his brains

    by INWOsuxRED

    Then Sylar can revive subliminal girl, which would explain why Parkman, the Hatian, and Claire obeyed him. He can also revive DL after Peter "kills him", or maybe the other way around. We already know that Linderman didn't want to kill Syler the first time, so it makes sense that he would bring him back.

  • May 2, 2007, 10:23 a.m. CST

    also...gotta mention original Planet of the Apes...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...Christopher Reeve Superman, Theatre of Blood, A Clockwork Orange, and most anything directed by David Lynch...I'd love to hang and bump this up like a bad bad wonka's bitch but...don't wanna get banned again...hafta come back with my name spelled sideways this time...and it's getting close to lunch time. I've got this sudden craving for fish tacos for some reason...See ya on the Tom Poston RIP thread chrth!!! (SERIOUSLY HERC, THERE BETTER BE ONE SOON!!!)

  • May 2, 2007, 12:19 p.m. CST

    After a second viewing...

    by Raymar

    The episode holds up rather well in the logic department. As others have pointed out, the key to understanding it comes by realizing that Dark Hiro suffers from "Marty McFly Syndrome" and doesn't recognize this future (but we do as we've been observing the altered timeline all along). My one question is this: in the ORIGINAL timeline where Claire's brain was eaten by Sylar was it still Peter whoreally exploded? If so, then exploding may not be fatal even without the healing power. And voxmortis raised this earlier: "HRG has blocked Parkman before by thinking in Japanese - why didn't he do it this time?" Good point. Best bet is that Parkman learned Japanese after his main task became hunting down Hiro. His ability would be useless if he didn't know what Hiro was thinking.

  • May 2, 2007, 12:22 p.m. CST

    HGR Shot Dead?

    by bythehairofsanjaya

    When I watched the episode again it sounds like Matt pulled the trigger on HRG right when the scene cut. HRG had just seen internet girl shot in the head, Matt had his gun to HRG's throat, the scene cut and then it sounded like a gun shot? Anybody else notice this?

  • May 2, 2007, 12:35 p.m. CST

    yes bythehairofsanjaya

    by just pillow talk

    that is what I assumed to have happened.

  • May 2, 2007, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Linderman

    by MarkoOhNo

    Can probably heal a dead body back to a pristine & completely undamaged state, however cannot likely return a person's "soul", "essence", what have you to the body. Perhaps in a future season he'll cross paths with someone who can reanimate the dead. That'd be eerie & kinda gruesome-like. heh

  • May 2, 2007, 12:46 p.m. CST

    present and future hiro exists becuase...

    by DarkCable

    Reason why present and future Hiro can exist at same time is due to the fact that present hiro would return to the current timeline. that is why future hiro was not misplaced for 5 years. (this works in the forward theory). When hiro went back in time, he left a point and returned 2 weeks later...becuase it was the fact he went back in time. At the point he left, there was no other hiro just him. then, when we went forward, he over shot and went 2 weeks into future (a point where hiro was missing becuase he was back in time). Had the present hiro been shot in the future...then the millenium storm would have hit and change the future on screen.

  • May 2, 2007, 12:46 p.m. CST

    HRG's death

    by chrth

    The captioning said 'gunshot', so yes, I believe him deceased.

  • May 2, 2007, 1:15 p.m. CST

    peter's scar

    by evil mystical ninja

    If someone's already mentioned this - don't bitch because I read like 400 posts last night and I can't be bothered reading another 400... In the preview for next weeks episode, Hiro looks like he's going to slice the old school, geeky looking Sylar. The way he's a-slicing looks like the same angle as the scar on future Peter's face... Just speculation but that's what this TB's all about I suppose! oh and did I see a BBC Scotland mention - weird

  • May 2, 2007, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Yo Wonka!

    by Psynapse

    My Name is Earl a scientology shitstorm? Please elucidate...

  • May 2, 2007, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Nevermind.....

    by Psynapse

    Gotta lurve the interweb.....(*_^)

  • May 2, 2007, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Great episode

    by jtishere

    One of the best things I've seen on television in a long time. As to the time travel issues 1) the season isn't over with, an explanation may be forthcoming; 2) There's no way any show can avoid these paradoxes, starting with: if there's no present Hiro, how can there be a future one? and 3) even without any good explanation, with an episode this good, I really don't care.

  • May 2, 2007, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Future Peter and Jessica

    by bythehairofsanjaya

    You know I could buy future Peter and Jessica, I just could never see any screen chemistry between Jessica and DL. Hate that part of the story line anyway.

  • May 2, 2007, 3:14 p.m. CST

    alright already

    by BadMrWonka

    people were talking about favorite TV shows, I thought movies were fair game.<p>I forgot to order something at work, so now I have nothing to do until 4pm. and AICN is running slower than Harry in a marathon (sorry big guy).<p>what do you guys think some new hero powers will be for later this season/next season? they've gotta have someone with super speed, yeah? I was thinking today, if you could really move around obscenely fast, your brain and reflexes would have to be working much faster than normal to compensate, right? what if they had someone who not only had super speed, but who could instantly figure things out because of how fast their mind worked? like, they could learn a new fighting style in a minute just by observing it. they could walk into a building and figure out escape routes, etc. just by letting their brain run quickly through all the scenarios. sort of like a chess grandmaster, but obscenely fast, and with everything, not just chess. wouldn't that be cool?

  • May 2, 2007, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Unless...

    by Valebant

    all of the heroes have super speed and that's why Las Vegas and NYC are effortlessly in reach.<p> But if anybody does have super speed I hope it's Mama Petrelli. That'd be funny. They'd just make it teleportation though. Then again, if you have super speed you also have to have super sight, like wasps dodging raindrops.

  • May 2, 2007, 4:34 p.m. CST

    You're all right, I'm wrong, I give up.

    by Napoleon Park

    I'm convinced. Even though Linderman appeared to revive a dead flower, he cannot revive a dead person. Frankly I'm relieved anyway; if this show had characters who could revive the dead and change history, anything on the series could be potentially undone and then why would anything matter. *** So, are there any old school superhero geeks who thought the worst thing about "Superman: The Movie" was that Puzo chose to up the stakes by having Kal do the one thing the comics established he couldn't do - change time. (Actually, by going back and preventing Lois from dying, he also effectively revived the dead, though not literally. Just like all the deaths in "Five Years Gone" won't matter if Hiro succees in preventing that version of the future from ever occuring. (Well, it won't matter on Heroes Earth 1, but there has to still be a Heroes Earth 2 in which New York was destroyed and the dark future came in order for there to be a FutureHiro to come back with the "Save the Cheerleader" warning.) *** And, guys, I'm an intruder here in your little clubhouse, so don't take this the wrong way, but is it fair to just post on random topics and lists of your favorite shows and movies just to keep the talk-back alive and try to build the number of posts to record levels? That shows a lack of faith in the show itself, which is the real reason for Most of these comments. (Yes, a few of my remarks were off topic - who cares about my childhood cat - but I tried to include somemthing about Heroes in every post. *** Not that anyone asked of cares, but I'm surprised by how much mainstream network fare I'm enjoying these days. The Simpsons, Desperate Housewives, Heroes, (Studio 60), House, Boston Legal (Denny Crane!), Bones, Criminal Minds, Medium, Lost, Grey's Anatomy, Shark, Ghost Whisperer, (Raines), Numb3rs, occasionally The Batman and SNL. I also enjoyed Frisky Dingo on [adult swim] and I'm patiently waiting for Venture Brothers season three. I know there are a few weak post-shark-jump choices there, but I only have basic cable and I likes what I likes, you don't have to. *** While we're waiting, Mark Evanier posted a brief Tom Poston memorial at his newsFromMME site > http://tinyurl.com/2n6kq < with a link to a longer obituary.

  • May 2, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    MBW and the curse of super-speed

    by Napoleon Park

    I've written a few Flash-homage stories about super-speed super-heroes and heroines. Blue Streak tried to speed up his metabolism and reflexes chemically, and died of a heart attack during his 'test run'. White Lightning lived out his days in a laboratory environment reading, writing, drawing and painting, communicating only through written notes because... eveyone...talked...so...slow...it was hard to him to understand them and he lacked the patiences to wait for what seemed like hours for someone to finish a thought. And La Gran Vitesse (the great swiftness) had an active and successful crime-fighting career as a team member and died of old age at 23. *** I liked Impulse and think all superspeedsters should have to wear goggles - imagine getting a bug or even a particle of sand in the eye while traveling at near sonic speeds. Ouchie. (Flash moves so fast a cushion of condensed air in front of him protects him? So what keep the air from crushing his eyes?) [Is this off topic? well, it is about super-heroes and does respond to Mr. Bad Wonka's comment about a possible Super Speed heroes character.]

  • May 2, 2007, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Wonka

    by leesheri

    Sign me up for that power

  • May 2, 2007, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Mr. Bad Wonka has a nice ring to it

    by BadMrWonka

    but I'm Bad Mr. Wonka, or BadMrWonka, or Will.<p>leesheri, think of how much studying you could get done, and STILL have time to go bowling (waiting for the pin reset with your super speed would be a drag, though).<p>and as for off topic posts, I think this talkback is going to remain in the top10 for a while, guys. it's not fair or unfair, just the posts about time travel in Heroes alone would beat out the number 2 spot. so let's not worry about tacit AICN talkback rules.<p>some funny comments in the TB for Vern's die hard rant. I'm not usually one that really guns for the hard-R movies, I don't really care, but come ON, it's frickin' Die Hard!

  • May 2, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST

    also<br>why<br>don't<br>more<br>people<br>do<br>this?

    by BadMrWonka

    you'd think TB'ers would love that shit...

  • May 2, 2007, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Bloody Hell...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...can't wait for next monday night and more Heroes...wonder what Kaito, Angela and Molly's powers are. I'm sure that's not the real Sylar cuz his eye moved...Peter with Candace's ability...everybody assumed Peter may have got the scar during the explosion...but what if post-explosion Future Peter decides to use Hiro power...(which he's had since the subway) to go back and nail Sylar before anybody died? And that's who Hiro's about to slice? ANyway that's enough to keep me on topic....Now the bitching...MOTHER FUCKING MAN U LOST!!!!!!! DAMN!!! NOWS I'M GONNA HAVE TO PUTS UP WITH ALL THEM SCOUSERS AND THEIR "YOU'LL NEVER HAVE TO WALK ALONE" SHITE!!! CANDY CANE SCARF WEARING BASTARDS!!! ok got *that* off my chest.... Where's the Tom Poston Memorial?

  • May 2, 2007, 5:28 p.m. CST

    forp

    by BadMrWonka

    what on earth are you on about now?

  • May 2, 2007, 5:50 p.m. CST

    football mate...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...but Christiano is still adorable...even if he lost. Oooh I see the Spidey 3 review by Mama Cumpston has finally knocked this TB outta the top spot. You can't deny the power of good fish tacos...couldn't find any today had to settle for "shrimp fundido". To keep on topic, I'm guessing that Hiro giving Ando the scrap of comic is the act that changes history; saves Ando...who will then save the world through his power of !Awesome! Ando has a superpower actually... but he doesn't realise it... subconsciously he alters probability, he's a Luck Dragon. A Human Rabbit's foot... (a rip-off of Longshot! scream the haters and whiners!)

  • May 2, 2007, 5:56 p.m. CST

    man u

    by evil mystical ninja

    man u got well and truly gumboed tonight! I'm thinking of a way to tie this into heroes talk so as to stay on topic but I got nothing... Although gattusso is like a super pitbull or something grrr. And thats what I was thinking about Hiro slicing Peter by mistake! Maybe he was letting Hiro practice because he knew he'd heal, but didn't know the sword messes with his powers?!? Ah the mind boggles

  • May 2, 2007, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Schyler is bomb

    by Gr33nlant3rn

    he is one fierce homeboy

  • May 2, 2007, 6:23 p.m. CST

    To clear something up...

    by evil mystical ninja

    I only just properly found out that jeph loeb and a couple other recent comic book writers are actually writers on this show... so its not too hard to believe that tim kring hasn't read any comics in his puff - especially when his team of writers actually used to WORK in real comics. From an interview with 2 of the writers when asked about the watchmen comparisons/influences - Comics have a huge influence on us. “Watchmen.” “Days of Future Past.” “Y The Last Man.” “Dark Knight Returns.” “Long Halloween.” These are all books that all of the writers hold very dear. So to say that these books did not have an influence on us and our writing would be disingenuous, but to say that Alan Moore invented and owns the doomsday scenario is also untrue. We were also influenced by the 9/11 documentary “Loose Change” and Mario Puzo's lesser known novel “The Fourth K.” All writers are influenced by previous work. It's what inspires us to tell great stories. We're putting our own spin on our story to make it uniquely “Heroes.”

  • May 2, 2007, 6:27 p.m. CST

    BadMrWonka + Onomaki

    by leesheri

    Do we really have to type that out each and every time? Aren't you coming over to the Lost talk back? Things are really heating up over there. You know you want to. <BR> Onomaki - I agree Ando won't die and this will be the thing that changes history.

  • May 2, 2007, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Leesheri...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...sorry, but I've only ever seen the first season of Lost. I got the second on DVD, but haven't got to it yet...so I really try to stay away from any/all Lost forums so I don't fuck it all up for myself. That being said if you ever want to discuss Season One Lost exclusively without spoiling anything that has come since, sure...but make sure we do that in a "safe space". Has you ever noticed the odd parallels between Lost and the old Chris Carter series Millennium? That's a topic I'd like to get into someday - - after I've seen all the episodes.

  • May 2, 2007, 6:41 p.m. CST

    I don't like Lost

    by BadMrWonka

    lost is like crack, compared to the red wine of Heroes. (bear with me).<p> lost gets you hooked really quick, and then even when it becomes dissatisfying and starts to become unenjoyable, you still have to keep coming back (just like crack). <p>with heroes, you get the fun effects of it right away, and it's exciting, but you can also delve deeper into the subtleties of it, and appreciate it for more than just its effects (like red wine).<p>also, if you watch Lost too much, you end up blowing guys for money down by the pier (like crack).

  • May 2, 2007, 6:45 p.m. CST

    seatle is great

    by BadMrWonka

    but not when THIS happens right behind my old apartment. I moved out 3 weeks ago, if I hadn't, my car would be in a sinkhole...this accident happened LITERALLY right at my old parking spot behind my building. I moved out in preparation for my move to LA. good karma? at least my karma is not in a sinkholema, right?<p>http://tinyurl.com/2csvzy<p>I love it here, but I have to move to LA if I'm serious about a career in the film industry. I have a really good contact that I have an interview with on the 17th, and if it pans out...well man, let's just say I will be giving this site a hell of a lot of anonymous scoops!

  • May 2, 2007, 6:56 p.m. CST

    Leesheri what did you mean...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...about typing something out every time? It read (to me) like you were asking if you had to type out Wonka and my Usernames each time you address one of us. Uh...Wonka just said you could call him Will. As for me, you can call me Prof. or .forP or Ikamono or onomakI or anything else that tells me you're talkin' to me...unlike Will I'm unable to give out my true identity in a public forum...but here's a clue: Somewhere on this very thread my full name is written out!!!

  • May 2, 2007, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Brunette Heroes Claire <<< Brunette Goth Lost Claire

    by Itchy

    it's not even debatable. Hayden Pantierre is cute, but she's no Emilie de Ravin. Let's be serious. All this time travel shit makes my head hurt. It ruined Star Trek, and it'll eventually ruin Heroes if they keep fucking with it. Call me when future Hiro talkes Past Hiro into jumping into future with old senile Picard and Professor Data.

  • May 2, 2007, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Sorry for the confusion

    by leesheri

    I guess I will call him Will and you Prof, but that might confuse other folks. ;) <BR>Lost- I love it even though last season stunk. This season rocks though. As for pimping myself out over it... I am not that hooked. ;)<BR> Will - good luck in LA! I've been there and done that. Lived in a house near Dodgers stadium. Loads of predators. Guys in clubs wanting to make me a model. Yeah right! I am not stupid I am 5'2" not 5'8" and could never be a model. My point, watch your back it is a dangerous place.

  • May 2, 2007, 7:28 p.m. CST

    wait...I'm 5'9...

    by BadMrWonka

    so that means I can DEFINITELY be a model, right? oh wait, I'm a guy, and not hot. damn!<p>I'll be careful, and while I'm not all that tough a guy, I am covered in tattoos and can bench 230, so at least I LOOK tough. <p>and I think you should stick with Wonka, Will will confuse people. see? look what it did to that last sentence.

  • May 2, 2007, 10:28 p.m. CST

    not likely, p_b_bear

    by Onomaki Forp

    'cause its already dropped down from one to six since this morning, at this rate it will be out of the Top Ten in less than 24 hours. And I'm not gonna try to repligin' it back up...I've worked hard to reestablish myself in the past few months...don't want to have to start again over something *that* meagre.

  • May 2, 2007, 10:31 p.m. CST

    oh, and on that note...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn Wonka.

  • May 2, 2007, 11 p.m. CST

    Bad Mr. W's Drug analogy

    by Napoleon Park

    Lost is to crack as Heroes is to red wine. Well, both can be addictive, hence crackheads and winos. And the first part is true - never having been in the same room with it, all I know is what I've heard but they say crack can be immediately addictive, just like the Lost pilot. But I see Heroes as a total drug experience. The first few were like grass, mild, pleasant, slow paced and leaving you wanting something a little stronger or better. The better middle season episodes were like your first trips with psychedelics, exhilarating and thrilling, leaving you deliriously happy. And the most recent episodes have been narcotics, ramping up the thrills and excitement to a frenzied pitch, with "Five Years Gone [string theory]" being your first shot of heroin, so incredible you fear nothing in your life may ever be that good again. Leaving you frantic, hungering for more, more more, and terrified that when you come down (with a possible bummer letdown of a season finale) and then face withdrawal (end of season, then a whole long summer without a fix) you may not last until your next shot (the Fall debut. Or worse, your connection might cut you off (network cancelation.) I think that coves the entire metaphor... though red wine is nice and it's certainly better for you. (I stopped smoking a quarter of a century ago but I still have the chronic cough.) *** [Hi, Will, I'm... wait... Will(y) Wonka? That's not your real name. Unless it is and you chose Wonka because you're Will.]

  • May 2, 2007, 11:05 p.m. CST

    I wanna <p> KNOW <p> who the <p> FRAK <p> is Shenkar?

    by RokurGepta

    someone mentioned superman and something about being given the new power to travel through time. Don't forget in Superman II, Superman kissed Lois Lane, thus erasing her memory of figuring out that Clark Kent and Superman are in fact one and the same <p> On the Subject of Heroes... <p> I really hope they more characters that don't have any powers. I have this sick feeling that Mohinder, and Ando are going to develop powers... Please bring Clea Duvall back. And seriously I'd like to hear/read some theories on Shenkar? the symbol on the sword, and the symbol on Jessica's shoulder.

  • May 2, 2007, 11:07 p.m. CST

    wow that looks terrible

    by RokurGepta

    sorry bout that, how do I end a line, without an extra space?

  • May 2, 2007, 11:37 p.m. CST

    everyone must be...

    by RokurGepta

    in the lost talkback....

  • May 2, 2007, 11:41 p.m. CST

    How did Jessica die from the "bomb"?

    by INWOsuxRED

    Is she alive somewhere, or is someone like Linderman keeping part of her alive now? Sorry if I've missed this explaination hidden somewhere in these posts.

  • May 2, 2007, 11:49 p.m. CST

    Over 900, eh?

    by Valebant

    I don't get your question. I don't remember anything about Jessica dying. Jessica/Niki are merged into one psyche in the latest episode.

  • May 3, 2007, 12:21 a.m. CST

    BEST.EPISODE.EVER.

    by wackybantha

    HEROES.RULES.

  • May 3, 2007, 12:56 a.m. CST

    "voice of Shenkar" -

    by George Newman

    That credit drives me NUTS!!! My only guess is that "Shenkar" is the voice of the recap before each show.

  • May 3, 2007, 1:15 a.m. CST

    Mr BadMrWonka

    by MarkoOhNo

    Whoa... I lived right in that area just like 7 years ago. I might be moving back in the next couple years if I decide to pursue a Graduate's in Psychology. If I throw together a decent 3D animation portfolio, however, I may wind up in LA as well....

  • May 3, 2007, 1:23 a.m. CST

    my name is chosen because I am Will

    by BadMrWonka

    in real life, as they say.<p>I'm dying for the next Heroes episode, now...I can't wait...

  • May 3, 2007, 3:26 a.m. CST

    Sometimes the voice that does the recap

    by RokurGepta

    is different, like the other week it was Malcom Mcdowel, aka Linderman, aka the bastard that killed Kirk. "Oh My"

  • May 3, 2007, 3:40 a.m. CST

    INWOsuxRED..

    by evil mystical ninja

    Before the episode actually aired part of the build up was that nikki/jessica had merged into 1 5years into the future <p> Everyone thought this meant we'd see some kick ass she-hulk tearing someone a new one, but in reality we got a whiny she-bitch tryna keep Pete the badass pussy whipped. She failed. Oh yeah

  • May 3, 2007, 5:33 a.m. CST

    Hi Will, I'm Randall

    by Napoleon Park

    Hmm... just about the best episode of "Lost" of the year *With a culmination of two major intertwining plot lines) and their talk back - both the all day pre-show discussions and the during show chatter and after show analysis - adds up to a piddling 270 posts as of sunrise the next morning. Over here, three days after the best "Heroes" ever, the talk-back has broken the 900 mark and slowed to a crawl. *** Both excellent episodes and I think the differences typify the differences in the shows target demo audiences. See, "Heroes" fans want to be heroes or believe in heroes, have super-powers, travel through time snd save a cheerleader. Adolescent power fantasies. Lost skews to older, disturbed teens who want to kill their fathers and can't trust anyone and think they're living in Hell. Both approaches have a certain appeal, but I think that makes "Heroes" a little bit more fun.

  • May 3, 2007, 6:04 a.m. CST

    hell yeah i wanna save a cheerleader

    by RokurGepta

    when there's trouble I'll be there in a double....

  • May 3, 2007, 6:26 a.m. CST

    not<p>sure<p>why<p>ftb donations:<p>$146.32

    by just pillow talk

    Agreed, Nikki/Jessica was a beaten down woman, what with her kid gone.

  • May 3, 2007, 6:59 a.m. CST

    Save Micah, Save the Nikki/Jessica Storyline

    by chrth

    ...in other words, don't save Micah

  • May 3, 2007, 7:18 a.m. CST

    I do have to agree that storyline..

    by just pillow talk

    seems to be heading nowhere, and without a point. And no one cares if it does. Here's hoping the blast does come and takes Micah with it.

  • May 3, 2007, 8:15 a.m. CST

    BTW, is it Nikki or Niki?

    by chrth

    I thought it was Nikki, but the captioning for the last ep had Niki all the time. Maybe a captioning mistake? Or perhaps she dropped the extra 'k' when she lost DL and Micah?

  • May 3, 2007, 8:25 a.m. CST

    she would have lost the second 'k' if

    by just pillow talk

    Micah was spelled Mikah, so I'm not sure. I thought it was with two k's. Perhaps when she gets really angry (like at her Dad), she drops the second 'k'. Less baggage.

  • May 3, 2007, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Maybe it's just Peter that calls her 'Niki'

    by chrth

    Doesn't like the second k for some reason

  • May 3, 2007, 8:59 a.m. CST

    I will continue to refer to her as 'Nikki'

    by just pillow talk

    take that Heroes!

  • May 3, 2007, 9:06 a.m. CST

    I coined "Nikkesica"

    by BadMrWonka

    since it seems that Nikki won the struggle, but retained Jessica's powers...anyone? bueller?

  • May 3, 2007, 9:10 a.m. CST

    To answer the mystery of Shenkar...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...pursued_by_bear is correct. It is not an acting credit. Shenkar is not a character on Heroes.He is a musician. Shenkar does the music, and the vocalist is credited as "voice of Shenkar". Here is his website: http://www.shenkarworld.com/

  • May 3, 2007, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Shenkar collaborates with Wendy and Lisa...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ... of Prince and the Revolution fame on the Heroes Soundtrack...is there an album yet?

  • May 3, 2007, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Jessikki, since I want to be different

    by just pillow talk

    Shenkar sounds like a far away land...where midgets ride tricycles and there are rainbows made of magic..

  • May 3, 2007, 10 a.m. CST

    Nikki/Jessica power & merge

    by INWOsuxRED

    I always thought Nikki had the hulk power and Jessica has a possession type power, or maybe its the other way around? Either way, Peter seemed to suggest Nikki was simply gone, rather than any type of merging. I'm not sure why I assumed dead, maybe because it was when he was rattling off a bunch of dead people.

  • May 3, 2007, 11:07 a.m. CST

    just pillow talk...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...that sounds like Wonka's Factory. Damn you Wonka!

  • May 3, 2007, 11:10 a.m. CST

    messi...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...Damn you Kaka'! Part of my above rant is of course in order to see an English triumph over Milan I have to support a bunch of scousers. Wanna play where's Waldo in reverse? Look for the one in the Liverpool stands NOT wearing the red and white scarf!!!

  • May 3, 2007, 11:18 a.m. CST

    have to get into a scousey state of mind...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...listen to old "merseybeat" records...read The Books of Blood... drink massive pints of Cains until me head falls off... "Hits me...hits me... hits me wit' your laser-beam....."

  • May 3, 2007, 11:24 a.m. CST

    puttin' the word "like"...

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...and the ends of sentences, like.

  • May 3, 2007, 11:25 a.m. CST

    AT the ends of sentences, like.

    by Onomaki Forp

    ...see what a few pints of Cains will do t'ya?

  • May 3, 2007, 12:32 p.m. CST

    this thread is going to die!

    by BadMrWonka

    I call shenannigans, Herc posted the info about Office's new ti