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Lots Of SPIDER-MAN 3 Reviews And Little Bits Of News!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey, everyone. ”Moriarty” here.
So I assume you’ve seen this already.
I’m not sure how that’s any different than what we’ve been hearing since even before SPIDER-MAN 2 came out, but some people in talkback seem to think it’s “breaking news,” so there you go.
What I’m fascinated by right now is the huge range of reactions we’re hearing as reviews for SPIDER-MAN 3 come in right now. The trades went head-to-head today, with The Hollywood Reporter pretty much gushing, while Variety could barely restrain their (pardon me) venom.
Even among our readership, presumably the exact audience that this film is supposed to reach, there seems to be a divide already springing up. One friend of mine IM’d me last night to compare it to BATMAN FOREVER, while another friend could barely catch his breath as he described everything he loved about it.
Check out these two reviews for a sense of what I’m talking about:
Hi, Harry. I lucked into a L.A. press screening of Spidey 3 and figured I'd pass my thoughts along. In short, it's a worthy entry in the series...although I think most will agree that it's also the most flawed.
The first half of this film is pitch-perfect...better than Spider-man 2. All the characters are in top form and all the action/drama/comedy works beautifully. But major problems surface in the last half when it all comes together. Eddie Brock/Venom is completely shoe-horned into the film as fan service (I heard Avi Arad forced it on Raimi). The film has way too much on its plate, so many subplots and characters come up short in the end. It's still the first good comic book franchise to get to #3 (sorry fanboys, X3 was soulless crap). Here's a rundown:
What works:
The action: Pretty obvious. Raimi knows how to stage chaos.
Peter-Harry relationship - Perfect. It's the real soul of the movie. Gives us everything we ever wanted after the end of Spidey 2.
Peter-MJ relationship - I never fully bought it in the first two films. We got a lot from Peter, but not much from MJ. Here it's believable on both sides. Good stuff.
The Sandman - A great villain! Thomas Haden Church gives him a real emotional edge. Sandman's birth scene is actually quite beautiful. Even the whole "Uncle Ben killing" angle (which I hated from the previews) worked pretty well in the final product.
The "Oddball Apartment Girl": Screw Dunst, I had a serious thing for the cute manager's daughter in Spidey 2. Personal preference. Glad she's back.
What doesn't work:
The pacing: Everything moves perfectly until the third act of the film, then its a mad-dash to wrap it all up.
Eddie/Venom - Short-changed beyond belief. This was a subplot that needed its own movie, pure and simple.
Gwen Stacy - Why the hell is she here? To make MJ jealous, I guess. They set her up like she's an important character and she just disappears from the movie.
Emo Peter - For the most part, Peter's dark side was well handled, but there are moments when Raimi goes way too over-the-top with it. Especially when it comes to the jokes.
Overall, I enjoyed it. There are serious problems, sure, but we also get some of the best moments in the franchise. Fans should be happy.
Call me Sirand.
The “Dark Peter” stuff is what I’m hearing the most complaints about. But this next guy... he doesn’t hold back at all. Check this out:
Hey Aintitcool…Dojo here. I attended a press screening of Spiderman 3 tonight at the Grove in LA Thursday night and all I can say is…
…I need to be consoled… I need to be held… I feel so alone… so cold… so betrayed… so misled…
…by the creators of Spiderman 3.
He danced? Venom died? Harry’s Butler saved the day? What film did I just watch? What monstrosity did I just witness?
I am a film geek and a comic geek- but above all- I am a Spiderman geek. I started drawing comics myself because of Spidey, I met Stan Lee when I was 9 at a bookstore in DC and had him sign my Marvel Universe book “Excelsior!”. I was Spiderman 3 years in a row for Halloween and consider him to be my favorite hero of all time.
Spidey means the world to me- and my world crumbled tonight. The film had some wonderful moments don’t get me wrong. I agree with a lot of the positives listed in some of the reviews above. Franco was awesome, Dunst even brought it, Bryce was beautiful- and Topher as Brock was great…but as Venom, was far from convincing. They didn't even have him refer to himself as plural...and his voice wasn't alien or snakelike- it was just Topher Grace's voice. So it was like "Hey, you wanna kill Spiderman? I'm just a dude!"
They took what should've been a GIANT inner conflict within Peter Parker and watered it down to a Saturday Night Fever throwback of Pete walking down the street snapping his fingers and oh yeah, the aforementioned dance number.
I've always had a problem with the cheese level Raimi has brought to certain scenes- and people always say "But Spiderman always had a sense of humor!". I'm talking about a sense of humor...I'm talking about a DANCE NUMBER in the MIDDLE OF SPIDERMAN 3.
That's how they chose to portray his cockiness? His newfound arrogance?
The symbiote was taking over and turning his heart cold in the comics...it was rendering him ruthless, it was convincing him that his darkest desires were right and just- and in the film...HE DANCES!!! Oh yeah, and accidentally hits MJ. He also takes out Sandman (or sort of almost takes out Sandman...but not really cuz he's Sand...man...
AND...AND! Ben was killed by Sandman, right on- toss that in last minute for good measure. Take back the engine we've been running on, PETE'S been running on for years now- just to make us care a little more about this villain even being in the film. I call BS on that claim, Sandman killed Ben by accident...BS! This is Spiderman people, not Days of our Lives.
Oh but Venom dies, yes Sandman stays alive to be forgiven by Peter (great message however severely out of place when tacked on to the end of a poorly constructed mess of a film). Venom however goes out...and goes out like a B! When will filmmakers learn? This is an entire universe you are
messing with. Just because you are the current team in charge of the franchise- doesn't mean you can muck about and re-arrange just to make your version of what millions know to be true. Don't kill the biggest arch-nemesis a character has. Put him away, lock him in Arkham (Batman
style) but don't incinerate a villain who was only onscreen for ten minutes anyway.
VENOM. Dear VENOM. I'm sorry you weren't scary, I'm sorry you weren't even imposing. I'm sorry they reduced all that you are to virtually nothing. I'm sorry you went out in a non-descript construction site. I'm sorry they didn't give Eddie enough depth and back story to really create a true
enemy. I'm so sorry. I can only hope that in ten years there can be a re-boot of the franchise under the guidance of someone who believes that what the comics have done needs to be watched and read closely.
This movie had all the makings of a bad Soap Opera, memory loss, love triangles, supposed deaths- cheesy jazz clubs with bad extras filling out the background.
Who the F was Bernard? Could the writer not think of ANY OTHER WAY to exonerate Pete in Harry's eyes? Seriously, expositional character number 103
Bernard : You know Harry, I don't talk much...but when I do...it's because I need to tell you that Peter didn't kill your Father...I know this- you didn't know this?
Harry : Sweet- I'll go help Spidey now, thanks random dude!
Done and Done. Screenwriting 101.
I liked the way Harry and Peter were going at each other early on in the film, the rivalry- the lies, the relationship sabotage- that had great depth and momentum to it. They just didn't go anywhere with it, they just let it fizzle and sputter to nothing.
The audience I saw it with was let down. No claps, no whistles when Venom came on the screen- well a few claps, that quickly died out in dismay.
When the film ended, there was an air of "that's it?" filling the auditorium. People shuffled out heads hung low, no one's mind blown- no one's faith restored, no one's excitement level beyond the excitement they had to tell their friends they saw Spiderman 3 way early.
I love Sam Raimi, I really do. I wanted to love this film, I really did. But I cannot deny how many wrong decisions this team made from a technical perspective, a story perspective, and a creative perspective in how they tried to illustrate this story arc.
I hope that people see through the fanfare- and can be honest with themselves as comic fans and as Spidey fans- that while Peter may have forgiven Ben's murderer for what he did...we should NOT forgive what these filmmakers have done to these wonderful characters.
-Sincerely, Dojo
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Yay. And again, yay.
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I thought Spider-Man 2 was awful. I could never understand how the main (only) villain in the movie could vanish for like an hour of screen time and not one... NOT ONE... character seem to noice and where the hero QUITS during this time, right after said-villain tries to kill his only living relative.
Not surprised that S-3 has some negative reviews. It will still do hundreds of millions and be proclaimed a masterpiece by the masses. I'll be there with my 5-year old who is bouncing off the walls.... proof positive that these films are really intended for the smaller/younger audiences. -
It can't that bad. Just can't be.
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Holy shit!
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Holy shit!
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of Spiderman fighting a cloud. Film it, score it, add it.
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Should have been introduced in that first film... yeah. That's all.. oh no, wait. Emo Peter also sounds bad. I was really hoping this movie was going to be good, but the second reviewer sounds like he has some sense and really wanted it to be good. I get the impression I'll agree with him... hopefully I love it.
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Glad to see we are going to get another hot beef injection from Raimi.
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Still sounds worth seeing. What do you bet I think the dance scene is great?
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... but how does this movie compare to OTHER part threes?
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Yes Mori, that is truly ancient news. I remember hearing that sometime in 2004, but I can't remember if it was before or after Spidey 2. I guess fan boys be acting like it's big new because they thought that statement go retracted at some point?
Priority one for Spidey 4: Recast Spider-man. Thankfully Tobey will probably be leaving the franchise anyway. Priority two: Resurrect Doctor Octopus as a credible bad guy. Seriously, they raped his character in part 2 and he had only 1 good fight scene with Spidey. (The Bank/Building fight, NOT the el-train fight, which is way overrated) -
was a part three and is one of the most underrated movies of our time. Yeah, I know, it was technically part 6, but in all reality it was the third entry. So most part 3's suck, not all. Also, Indiana Jones and the last Crusade. Not as good as Raiders, but it didn't suck.And I agree about Batman Forever, huge improvement over Batman Returns. The problem is that none of those movies have aged well.
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That Clara Clayton was a temptress with her cute self.
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Batman Forever is over slagged, yes. Infact, it remains the top selling Batman movie on Home video and has some good points to it. And Hell, I like Jim Carrey's Riddler. But it screwed up one major element which is almost unforgivable:
Harvey "Two-Face" Dent.
Forgiving the fact that it's a confounding recast, (Billy Dee Williams to Tommy Lee Jones? Really?) Two-Face isn't given his due because A.) He's pre-existing and we don't get his origins. (I personally don't think every villain needs origins, but in Two-Face's case that's his most compelling story) B.) He's reduced to a braying lunatic with a fetish. And Tommy Lee Jones is wasted. If you forget that he has played Two Face and start thinking of dream actors for the role, you'd easily consider him, he's got the acting chops for it. but in his turn at bat it was all wasted.
I'm still skeptical of Nolan's approach, (I am encouraged that he's dumped goyer, because frankly Begins had some cringe worthy dialouge. "If I hadn't brought you here your mind would now be lost." WTF?) But if he can do justice to Dent/Two face, then it will be worth it. The audience needs to see a second attempt at Two-Face in the movies way more than we need a second attempt at Joker. -
finally give us the Lizard in part 4, with Kraven. Part 5, Hobgoblin and Black cat, and part 6, Electro and Mysterio. Actually one of the things I've wanted to see in a Spidey movie is for the movie to open with the Rhino or some minor villain doing what they do, and Spidey swinging in to stop him only to get sidelined by a different minor villain, so the first one gets away. It would make a killer 15 minute opening to the movie before we get to the origin of the main villain. And if it happens in the opening of part 4, whoever he puts away could come back to be the main villain in 5 or 6.
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In the comics, the alien suit did not affect Spidey's emotional state. It stayed dormant because is enjoyed Spider-man's action, and because his mutated metabolism made a permanent bonding difficult. The "alien personality taking over" was never mentioned until the 90's cartoon series, which has been mentioned off-and-on in the comics since, but never when Spidey had the suit. In fact, the suit LOVED Spidey! When Pete tried to kill it with the bells, Pete passed out and the heartbroken costume dragged Pete away before the ringing could kill him. It wasn't until the suit sensed Brock's intense hatred that it turned evil. Sadly, as with most things in the Marvel Universe, great origin stories mean nothing now, and are frequently retconned. Aunt May's death in ASM 400 was an absolute tear-jerkingly beautiful story, only to be turned to a "actress died while May hibernated for 5 years" ... As for Brock needing a full movie? Ummm..... no.... Brock is VERY 1 dimensional. Raimi was right. everything fits comfortably in one movie... we see what happens when you mess with symbiotes: You gain power, you lose yourself, then lose your life to it. What more is there? Besides, they leave an option for more symbiotes coz Conners keeps a sample of the goo. Hope to God Venom or Carnage never return, but.... Hollywood is a whore....
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They should have kept the original comic story line in the first film. You can't improve a classic. I suppose they didn't want to go too dark. No excuse, of course.
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The first review, I thought the guy was giving a "good job old chaps" with what they had to work with.The second review feels more like a reality that's about to sink in. Raimi hasn't destroyed the Spidey Character by giving him organic web shooters, that was just to have a solution to not seeing the shooters under a costume. It was a necessary thing to do. Didn't have a problem with that.But has the second review said "A dance number" WTF!!! Venom dies?!?!? WTF!!!I have doubt about Arad and his whole influence on the characters Marvel are developping into films. Yes He got the 1st Spidey movie to get one of the biggest opening weekend in the world, but he still let's studio do way too much has they ant and not respect character history.Arad needs to go away from these franchises.He's the next John Peters. Lotsa money, no ethical values.Since Marvel now as it's own Studio for future releases such has Iron Man and Hulk.. euh.. Returns (but I'm guessing that if Norton signed, it'll be better than the first, and still make more money than "Superman Returns and becomes a voyeur") , why dont they step in and relax the present studios from making such shit. Arad obligating a Venom story now on Raimi might have been true, I don't know, but Marvel should've said "Wait, can't put Venom in this one as a villain, let's introduce Brock, the costume but not Venom. Let's keep this for the last minutes of the movie and the Fourth movie will basically get Venom the screen time he deserves in full battle against Spidey. Yes it would've teased the crap out of us, but still would be better than have 3 different storylines going at once for a less than 4 hour movie (time it would need to get everything in there and still make sense).I'm guessing the whole Osborne vs. Spidey and Sandman would've suffice, Osborne has already been established and hates Spidey/Pete so no new 10 minutes to introduce a character and give him a reaosn to hate spidey, and Sandman is one of the great characters of all time to face-off against Spidey.Raimi need to get his shit straight, stop killing everyone, if you do a Dark Parker for the Venom storyline do it well, or don't do it at all; 2 villains is alot for one movie, 3 is just plain Schumacker like; and to introduce 2 new villains plus a Gwen, and get to have Mary-jane, the Landlord's daughter, Aunt May, and every other characters in a movie takes time away from story which will sell your next movie, so stop introducing everyone just for the hell of it.If Venom would just have been a teaser for Spidey 4, you could've introduced Gwen in Spidey 4 and leave her out of 3.Try to get a storyline, or you'll end up with a "Superman Retruns" movie, a big freaking dissapointment and major flop (if you consider that this movie should've reached the 800 Million just at the theaters). Fans remember, I'll go see this Spidey 3, but if it's not up to par, then Spidey 4 might not be on my "To see" list when it comes around.
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Y'know, one of these guys who hates the series because of the organic web shooters. I mean, maybe he is right, but he sounds to me like the three words he says most are "Worst film ever".
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See you all there, Long live the web!
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Is on right now. TCM.
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I've been a long time Spidey fan, I started collecting comics seriously with Web of Spiderman Number 1, the issue where he pulls his suit off under the church bell. When Venom hit the scene, I thought he was awesome at first, but quickly he became just an annoying character. For anyone to say he is Spidey's greatest nemisis, just really strikes me as weird! Well, I stopped collecting comics in the mid 90's, so what do I know?
I'm also a huge Raimi fan, so I've been loving the movies thus far. Still, the second reviewer brings up some valid points. This thing just sounds a bit character heavy and I can easily see it being a train-wreck.
If there is a Spidey 4, without the present team of actors and director, I suspect it will do modest at the box office, then we'll get a BATMAN & ROBIN style crapfest for a part 5. Part 6 will be a direct to video childrens music video. -
the last review knocked my interest way low...but I am sure I will still enjoy it somehow.
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They should leave Spider-Man to lie fallow for five years now, then start gearing up to make three more with an entirely different creative team. In fact, doing three, then waiting for 5 years should be the way all franchises should work - just so they can catch their breath, and the owners of the intellectual property can stand back and work out what direction their characters should be taken in. Batman Begins reinstalled everyone's faith in that character so brilliantly - and when you see Spider-Man 3, you'll want someone to similarly re-boot the character.
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them bastards can't be bothered to use a simple article. Are 'the' and 'a' too hard to type? I just hate their smug writing. I'm officially not reading any more SM3 previews - there have been too many spoilers and such a huge range of opinions, I'll just have to wait and see for myself.
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cant say im really that surprised by the treatment of venom? raimi has openly stated his dislike for the character and also pointed out that he was "pushed" towards including him in the movie.did ya think he would devote time on his final fling at spiderman to a character he cares nothing for? also this sympathetic villain which has been seen now in all 3 movies is kinda boring me out. cant they just be a fucked up,power gets to their heads, chip-on-the-shoulder, screw the world personality. why oh why do we have to care that peter has some attachment to them.hated spiderman 2 for what they did with dr ock. but if it makes $500 gazillion then i guess this is how the studios will continue to run things.
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The last movie only spent half of it's running time talking about her super-important acting career and how she had to pussy-whip Parker into paying attention to it..can we expect Raimi to up the ante this time? Screw Venom, Sandman and Goblin Boy (I guess the Hobgoblin was too much to ask for)...more Oscar Wilde in effect, yo!
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Is what Harry's villain name is on all the merchandise. Sounds like a place holder name until raimi got back to them with the final one. And he never did.
Why did he chicken out? Why not Green Goblin Mark 2? Why not Hobgoblin? -
film in the franchise, and it kicked ass.
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Most of the critisism I am hearing is that the movie did not do the comic book characters justice such as Venom or Peter parker dancing. Hate to tell you guys this, but the 1.5 billion dollars the first two movies made were not brought in by die hard comic book fans. These movies are made for the general public and I have actually been impressed with how much the the film makers have tried to stay true to the comics, but truth be told most people to pay to see this movie will not care know or care that Venom is not refering to himself as we. The only way a big budget movie like this will be made by the studios who pour millions into special effects and talented actors is to get the most back on their investment. That means one thing: Target Audience Joe Blow and his family out on the town looking for a fun summer movie to see. If you don't like it, don't go and support it.
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I agree with everything said in it, only I still managed to enjoy the movie. I think most people will.
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Somebody explain, please, what the hell is wrong with their being a dance number?
How could that possibly be 'wrong'?
If the dance number means something and is well played and staged... what more do you want?
Seems like quite an adolescent complaint: "Eurgh! Spidey dances! Lame!" - I mean, is there more to the issue than this? -
There was just too much "plot device 103" stuff like the Harry's butler thing. For example like how the meteor with the symbiote just happens to land 20 away from Peter. You just get the feeling from the start that these scriptwriters just didn't try hard enough.
People may call this nitpicking, but IMHO logical consistency and believability is what helps draw someone into a movie. Without it you're just forced to turn off your brain and pretend you're playing a video game. The last 2 Spiderman movies at least tried.
Also the point about too many characters...not enough time...totally spot on...there are many scenes from the novel, and even from the TRAILERS, that were left on the cutting room floor. What baffles me is that some crucial scenes for plot/character development were left out, but all the silly/campy stuff were left in. For example did we really need a scene during the final battle of J Jonah trying to buy a camera from a kid? All it did was ruin the tension of the fight.
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Those were my thoughts exactly while watching the movie. Sure there are some terrific action sequences (although it's always a bad sign when the first is also the best) and nice snippets here and there, but overall this was maddeningly disappointing, especially the bullshit Harry storyline and the unbelievable butchering of Venom. Sequilitis strikes again.
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Venom dies. Hooray!!! Raimi clearly did that as a kick in the teeth to the 8Os fans. Good on him. No villains from outside the 1960s should be in the Spidey flicks. They were all crap.
Keep them classic. Raimi knows what he is doing.
Now...bring on the Lizard!! -
this movie will OWN.
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Makes X3 look great!
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I'll wait for the musical.
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The same kind that don't undertand why they didn't do a Secret Wars movie first. Raimi has always had the touch the make things that may be camp or farce work within his films IMHO, unlike Mark Steven Johnson's Ghost Rider or Schumacher's Batmans. Some don't dig it. Venom was right in my formative comic reading years too, but I have no problem with anything I've seen/heard so far, and killing him off? So what? They killed off Goblin and Ock too. Who cares? The same fans who complain that Venom is only in the last ten minutes are the same ones that keep saying they wanted to see other villains in the FIRST ten minutes of the movies as cameos. We get it, you like Venom, you can't be happy he's in a major motion picture at all? This may change after I see it, but the whole arc of the symbiote/Dark Peter seems to make sense to end with Venom. And the dance number? sounds fun and totally out of character for Peter... which it's supposed to be!
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A true geek would know that it's "Spider-Man" not "Spiderman".
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I never complained that Venom was only in the last ten minutes. In fact, I don't even like Venom that much, he should have been one of the cameo villains.
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that everyone who hated the movie was in a theatre full of like minded people, but those who loved it were in a theatre full of clapping and excitement? And also, the alien costume did not make Peter mean and evil; it was essentially feeding off of him.
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Sounds to me like Raimi did the same thing to Venom in SM3 that Schumacher did to Bane in B&R. Schumacher didn't want to use Bane at all but was shoehorned into it. What does he do? Screws up the origin story and reduces the character to a mono-syllabic zombie.
Bane was the guy who set everyone in Arkham free, waited for BM to recapture a bunch to wear him down, figured out his identity, showed up at the guy's house and THEN snapped Batman's spine! The guy was smart, he had a plan, and it worked. THAT storyline (Knightfall), would have been an awesome movie - even if Kilmer was still Batman. But what does Schumie do? Bastardizes Bane's origin. "Um, let's just stick a feed tube in the back of a scrawny convict's head, pump him full of steroids and blow him up like a balloon. The kids will get it."
Now we have Raimi. Granted, Brock is a one-dimensional character - the weasely guy who always thinks the world is out to get him. And since you can't do the "Secret Wars" thing, the next best thing would be the 90's cartoon origin - especially since Raimi established in SM2 that Jameson's son is an astronaut. Bring the symbiote back from the moon to study it, only to have the shuttle crash and it gets away. But no, the tried (or tired) and true "alien being inside a random meteor" would be much easier ("The Blob", "Creepshow", even "Superman") for a general audience.
Bottom line - Raimi was shoehorned into using Venom as much as Schumie was with Bane, so why should we expect Venom's treatment to be any better? -
I am not surprused about how Raimi treated Venom. I remember reading, a fwe years back, that he HATES Venom. If so, that means Venom is in this movie simply because some exec WANTED him in their and twisted Raimi's arm.
When will they learn to not screw with a competent filmmaker?
That is why x3 sucked. They messed with Singer, and they got stuck with that incompetent weasel-boy rattner. They bullied him into filming a hugely flawed product, and he didn't know any better. He sucks...
This probably foretells that Raimi is leaving the series, and they will probably hand over the franchise to an incompetent schmuck like McG... -
Every review I've read indicates that the SNF/Dancing stuff is what represents Dark Peter. Now, I can accept at as part of what represents evil peter, but they keep saying that's all there is to this version of the character. The Hell?
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because it is already a total embarrassment. Whoever said it is right...this trilogy is aimed at six year olds. Most overrated pile of crap. I say this as a fan of the character Spiderman. Tobey was the worst casting of all time, I can only hope that in the years to come everyone realizes this.
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gee.... never saw that one coming.
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soon as i heard there were gonna be too many villains i knew venom was gonna get butt fucked!a decent villain needs maximum screen time and venoms as good as super villains get!i thought he would get rushed in at the end(who's decision?cause i dont think raimi even wanted him)for raimi 2 ignore simple storytelling rules is a disgrace.i love this guys work but this jus shows what happens when you take on more than you can handle!i really hope everybody leaves the series and a new team take over...jake g. as pete(make spidey witty you bastards!)and fincher or cameroon to direct and write!carnage as only villain.it really doesnt matter who plays the other parts...and if batman starts adding to its villains again im gonna....whine on this bloody site again!damn my lack of influence!
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this is gonna hurt but im not gonna see this movie.petty?yes.buts its the only power we have to stop this crap from happening again.i hope chris nolan reads the 2nd review.its the film i was expecting.if a great like raimi cant get it right and makes the EXACT mistakes of the past what hope is there for comic fans?okay,rant finished....
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The 1st two Spideys were awesome. Hell, Spiderman 2 was hands down the best superhero adaptation film ever! This negative review sounds like its from someone who's too close to the material. I've been a long-time fan of spidey too, but if you're such a fan of the material that you've read, like, every comic, no filmmaker less informed of the material than you can ever hope to satisfy you. I was annoyed a little at first with the organic webshooters. But you know what? With such strong writing, I forgot all about it. Then in spiderman 2, when Raimi turned one of the two least interesting comic book villains ever (the 2nd being The Penguin) into a great character, I gave him serious props. So if Sandman's involvement in Ben's death is handled okay and the film does a great job with the themes of revenge and corruption, I won't give a shit if it deviates from the comics. If you treat these films like they're out to change the stories and replace their comic book predecessors, you're always in for disappointment. If you just allow them to be another artist's interpretation of the material and merely a companion piece to the original material, you might find that they've still told a great story, even if it's not exactly the way you remember it. (I'd hate to see what it was like in ancient oral cultures: "That's not how the Odyssey is supposed to go! You got it all wrong. There were four sirens, you blind moron!") Admittedly though, even I get frustrated when they change the small details sometimes, but mostly good writing is just good writing. And so far, spiderman has kept up with being more about the themes than just being fun action flicks, so I'm happy. As for X-3, I'm actually growing to like it more in multiple viewings. Still the weakest and far from perfect, but divorced from the attachment to the characters from outside of these films, it's not bad. And I like the way it introduced abortion into the mutant metaphor. I don't think anyone's done that before in x-men. Also, Phoenix saga can suck it--stupid magic crystals, space pirates, and lord Xenu from planet Zeist bullshit. That crap had no place in these more realistic x-films.
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You're a fucking idiot Dojo.
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The casting is fine, but the performances are too over the top and the film is shot terribly. Also, the script sucks.
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slo mo scenes in Spidey2 which I thought were actually funny and unexpected.
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Don't you guys see what's comming.
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This guy DOJO is a closit case, like spidy comics never had pointless expositional charactors. "No man, every spidy comic is perfect...forever". Didn't this guy DOJO just kill himself and some other kids in virginia? oh what? Too soon?
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That really hurts my excitement level for this one. Rami has a strange nack for doing some things worse than I could have possibly imagined, and then doing some things even better than I would have hoped for, but then I'm the type of person that doesn't think Bruce Cambell needs to be in every movie. I think I would like to see a new team on Spider-Man, but I don't have much faith that a good team will be assembled.
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In the most recent Entertainment Weekly, Kirsten said that if Raimi, Tobey, and her left Spiderman and the film company made a 4th one it would tank. A little egotistical huh Kirsten? It's not the actors or the director that sells the movie it's the characters.
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While I am still very excited to see this film, it is certainly obvious that there are two films worth of character's and plots shoved into Spider-Man 3. Spidey 3 should have had Sandman and Harry as the sole villains and introduced the black suit and Brock. No "Sandman killed Uncle Ben" plot. Sandman should have just been a vicious thug who has now gained superpowers and just goes nuts with it. Then you have Harry actually donning the Goblin costume and attacking Peter, all the while Peter is going through a dark period with the costume. Brock is fully set-up (after being mentioned way back in the first film, if you pay attention) as his rival at the paper, with Parker eventually causing Brock to get fired. I'd have had Mary Jane killed towards the end in a battle between Peter and Sandman, and Peter is left badly injured. After the funeral, Harry comes to his senses and joins up with Peter to take out Sandman. During the battle Harry is mortally wounded and dies shortly after its finished, with Peter forgiving. In the closing moments he ditches the suit in the church where it attaches to Brock...setting up Venom for Spidey 4. That way Brock would already have had a backstory built up all throughout the third film and would fully become Venom for the fourth. You could also introduce Carnage as well if you really wanted, but that wouldn't really be necessary. It would also have been easy to bring in Gwen Stacy as the new love interest. Oh well. Like I said, I am excited about the film, but it sounds to me like while the characters of Peter, MJ, Harry, and Sandman are very well fleshed out.......tacked on characters like Gwen Stacy and Brock/Venom are wasted. If the film ends the same way that the novelization does, then there is still the possibility of Venom returning for another one although they would certainly have some explaining to do.
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I wouldn't be too surprised if Venom popped up in another sequel with Carnage in tow. The fans love him so much, as does Marvel, and lets not forget that Sony had to pick up the character rights separately a couple of years back. New Line used to own the rights and almost made a solo Venom movie (san Spider-Man backstory) back in the 90s. Marvel and Sony know the popularity of the character and I can easily see him being "resurrected" in some fashion for a sequel (and probably his own spinoff thereafter). The question is, if it happens, will Venom be Brock or someone else?
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To all of you I say Bring......ON.....THE.......CARNAGE!!!
Come on just think Spidey 4 or 5 we get to see the off sping of Venom (with fractured memories of the black symbiote) go on a twisted, brutal, revenge trail to get back at spidey/parker.
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The moment I saw the black spidey i knew that raimi was pressured into doing something that he didnt. However he found the suit story interesting and i can say at least that part isnt TOTALLY ruined like venom. But like everyone said already said, its BULLCRAP that they introduced JJ's astronaut son and NOT use him in this movie as a way of bringing the symbiote onto earth but INSTEAD have two big "unbelievables": 1)the symbiote itself, an alien goo from other space, something that is TOTALLY different from the first 2 movies which were somewhat POSSIBLE in OUR reality. and 2), it lands RIGHT NEXT TO PETER THE SECOND TO GETS TO EARTH. I mean come on dude, enough is enough. BUt hey sandman is now also ben's killer? Add in some other unneeded characters, gwen for example. Then after ALL that, you have a rushed brock going into the SAME CHURCH that parker goes to to get rid of the black suit.... okay maybe thats from the comics but that should have been the ONLY COINCIDENCE in this entire movie.
ANd yes raimi hates venom. Its obvious: venom never uses "we" at any point, venom DIES, venom doesnt even have a snake-like/lion-like voice when he talks, just topher shrieking like some geek on acid, GIVE ME A BREAK! Plus in the animated series and also in the comics, eddie brock was a STALKER to peter, trying to bring him down since he knows who peter really is. WIth only ONE final battle you cant fully do venom any amount of justice, you just reduce him into some dude in a black suit with no wit or brains.
Im very disappointed with SM3, i think its sad that studios didnt allow raimi to do what HE wants to do with the series but instead probably forcedfucked him into adding so many characters with so many coincidences and throwing in venom in there just for the sake of having him. -
The main villain is Sandman. Sandman is going to be the primary foe for Spider-Man throughout the movie. Now, without seeing it, I'm going to take the final battle against Venom as a final battle against his own darkness. Just a physical representation of that battle. I would love to see more of Venom just as many others would, but you take what you get. And I am completely TIRED of the "too many villains" argument. Did no one see Batman Begins? Did no one notice that there were TWO Ras Al-Ghuls, the Scarecrow, AND Falcone? I mean, it CAN be done. The only real evidence of the multiple villains not working is Batman and Robin. But that was wrong on so many levels, not just the multiple villains. Regardless, I respect Raimi for trying to go somewhere new with the franchise. Instead of taking the same storyline and reinserting new characters and "upping the ante". Whether or not it ultimately works remains to be seen (by me, none of these reviews are really doing it for me just yet). The fact is, if you didn't like the first two, you're not going to like this one. If you DID like the first two, word has it that you'll at least be marginally entertained by the new one. I for one am going to give it a shot.
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Many comments about how Venom was always going to be messed with because Raimi 'hates him'. Well if I was a money man I would have wanted Venom in the damn thing too! ..... The Spider-man films are NOT great by any means and despite this they have made huge amounts of money and have pushed Raimi into the big league. Could the guy just not bite his lip and make the best of it??? Pathetic.
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say the first two spider-man movies were well written, that wasn't what they had going for them. Yes superhero movies are difficult to pass as serious. But watch Batman Begins... you want to talk well written, sure there are a few quirky lines but the majority of the film is top notch. Raimi directs camp and camp is what we get. The first two were as good as camp can get. I liked the movies, i own them, but honestly the replay value on them suck. Sure this current movie is going to have scenes which are horribly laughable and incoherent but over all it wont be a bad movie. I agree with much of what is said from other talkbackers, take a break and regroup with fresh talent. It worked with the Batman franchise and it can work for the Spidey too. For me it even (overall) worked for Superman, but i know it was either hit or miss for alot of everyone else. I am a diehard Superman fan and just loved seeing him back on the big screen. Call me incompetent if you will....
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I'd rather he be there instead of some lame ass like the Vulture, Electro, Rhino or any of the other sorry Spidey villains. Venom is so "beloved" because he was the total and exact opposite of Spiderman...greedy, self serving and evil. Raimi had alot he could've done be he had professed is hatred for the character early on so I expected this. My biggest beef is that Gwen Stacy doesn't die!!!
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They should have just concentrated on Sandman, Gwen Stacey and the ending of the whole Harry thing. Then the movie should have ended on the cliffhanger of the symbiote arriving.
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With Bono and Edge doing the music! Cannot wait!
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I love it.
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It'll be something shitty if there's a 4th film, though.
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And a redhead for Mary Jane Watson Parker! And someone tell the hairdresser that Aunt May's hair goes in a bun. *** Anyone that thinks that Batman forever was in any way acceptable, explain how Billy Dee williams turns into Tommy lee jones and show me a comic book with a character named "Harvey Toothpaste" in it! And that's not even going the easy route with "Two words: Jim and Carrey!" *** What's this about "three more" - Spider-Man is not a series of trilogies, it's an ongoing Franchise, like Bond or Police Academy. *** And what was that reviewer smoking who called V-Man Spidey's 'arch-nemesis'. Chameleon, Mysterio, Electro, Sandman, Vulture, Dr. Octopus, Kraven the Hunter, Green Goblin, The Lizard, the Scorpion, these are the Spider-Man super-villains that matter. The Ditko era villains. And really, J. Jonah Jameson is Spidey's REAL arch enemy. I can see bringing in Shocker, Kingpin, maybe even the Marvel rip-off version of Black Cat. (But not Hammerhead - Romita went way too Dick Tracy villain with that one.) But bringing in McFarlane and Larsen and later characters and claiming they're major characters is like saying you can't do Justice League without Black Vulcan and Apache Chief and Samurai. Here it is in analogy form; Venom is to Spider-Man as Wonder Twins is to Justice League. And since they can't possibly do a whole Secret Wars origin, V-man makes no sense at all, he's just some dogshit Parker stepped in. *** Look, I'm okay with them taking a '60s property and updating it to another century, but for cripes sake, give the goddamn movies some titles! The band Chicago turned using the same title over and over again a bad joke, and Peter Gabriel just made it annoying. *** And why does every goddamn Batman graphic novel have to have the word "Batman" in the title. Batman the Dark knight Returns, Batman Arkham Asylum, Batman Year One. Batman Son of the Demon made no sense; how can he be his own son? Thomas Wayne was a reckless workaholic, maybe, but not a demon. Same with putting "Star Trek:" in front of every movie title. Like we'd think "Search for Spock" was about looking for the baby doctor? *** seriously, why couldn't they have called this one "Spider-Man III: Goblin's Rage"? Or "Amazing Spider-Man" or "Web of Spider-man". Hell, call it "Spider-Man III: Enter Sandman" and you've got a ready made Metallica theme song. *** Still, looking forward to "Iron Man One: The First Iron Man Movie (Not Counting The Animated One)"
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Time to get a girlfriend.
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I don't get what you guys don't like. Especially the ones who haven't seen it yet.
Hey, formatting guidelines. And a posting preview! Have these always been here, but hidden, or is that stuff brand new? Cool!
Should add horizontal rules, though. -
In the post. And I'm not seeing anything like it now?What was that? did I press a weird button? Freaky.
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the first one would have been the origin combined with trying to get pictures of the Vulture. The second would have been the Green Goblin and he would have died and killed Gwen Stacey, while Mary Jane would have still been that girl that Peter always never meets. The third would have been Cobra and Mr. Hyde because I liked those stories. The fourth would have been Harry on drugs and becoming the new Green Goblin(I would be saving the Hobgoblin for the 15th film). The fifth would have been "When Cometh The Commuter mashed up with the one where Toad fights the frog guy". I could continue, but by this point I think I would have driven Sony's movie department into bankrupcy.
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to post on this talkback and receive their nice hearty helping of crow. That or look like idiots again trying to make their case to Mori that Raimi confirming three more Spider-Man films isn't news.
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Face it, no comic/book/videogame/theme park ride will ever be translated perfectly to film. Every director wants to add their own spin on a particular story, just to say it's theirs. Every adaptation will have changes, refits, main characters becoming 10 minute throwaway attractions, it happens. Quit bitching and just enjoy the film for what it is!
I remember coming out of X-Men 1 and some retard in a wolverine t-shirt is blathering on about how his blades wouldn't have been bent by Magneto due to being adimantium. I wanted to punch fuck out of the little ass-rammer just for being so spectacularly pathetic. To allow such minor changes to ruin an entire movie for you speaks at how truly pathetic some of you fucktards are. So Raimi hates Venom? Big fucking deal!!! He was right to treat him like shit as having him shoe-horned into the flick may well have ruined what he was trying to accomplish. And since the flicks are based on comics, you know he could be brought back in a split second if they needed to - one atom survived and he regenerated from there etc...quit fucking bitching, it's not the end of the world, it's a comic book movie. -
That way you can work in some cheesy comic-style way of brock surviving and the symbiote surviving. Have it replicate and introduce Carnage as the main baddie with subtle hints of spideys absense due to a honeymoon or some shit. I guaran-damn-tee you Sony, a venom spinoff will rake in about as much dough as the spidey franchise. Though he's not a favorite of mine, his fan base speaks more than volumes these days.
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Apr 21, 2007 10:02:44 PM CDT
Fuck Raimi and Tobey! Prinze Jr should have been SPIDEY
by merryhulkster
Tobeys lameass performances as spider-man range from wooden to non-existent! SPIDEY IS A FUCKING PRACTICAL JOKESTER! NOT A MURMURING SOMETIMES INCOHERENt MUTE! and VENOM DIES???!! HE SHOULD'VE FUCKING TOOK RAIMI ON THE WAY DOWN WITH HIM!! FREDDIE PRINZE JRS LOOK AND VOICE SOUND A THOUSAND TIMES MORE SPIDEY, than that Fucking bore TOBEY! u know its bad when Shia LeBouf is making fun of u on SNL! to me the Perfect Spidey and MARYJANE would be Freddie Prinze JR and MARY ELIZABETH WINSTEAD!!
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Apr 21, 2007 10:08:09 PM CDT
SONY Never wanted tobey to begin with they want Prinze
by merryhulkster
i was watching Howard Stern when Prinze Jr was on there, and Sony never Bought Tobey as Spidey( they should have stuck with that thought) Prinze siad sony was telling him, dont worry its in the bag you got the job! i guess Ramia Racist ASS couldnt see a Puertorican as Spider-man FUCK u raimi u racist asshole!!
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nuff sed
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Apr 21, 2007 10:18:08 PM CDT
u know many females say Spidey sux cause Tobey's Ugly?
by merryhulkster
im being serious its true, when i tell them Prinze Jr was originally cast, theyre like like "why didnt they stick with him?" "Tobey looks like such a Fucking Doughboy Mush." Lmao. and News Flash Peter parker ONLY ACTED LIKE A GEEK BEFORE HE BECAME SPIDER_MAN then he became way more confident, how is it two movies later and he's still a fucking Pushover geek tripping on sidewalks? Raimi is a Jackass! the quality of the Films are Good with the exception of the stupid ass Crap Melodrama, and those WAY OVERLY LONG OVERLY FUCKING BORING AUNT MAY SPEECHES THAT EVERYONE CRINGES AND ROLLS THEYRE EYES UPON Constantly, im always like " AUNT MAY SHUT THE FUCK UP!!(same for MJ's monotonous crapass speeches! BUT SPIDEY & MARYJANE ARE COMPLETELY FUCKING MISCAST!!
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his father was Puertorican and his Mother was white
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Apr 21, 2007 11:00:21 PM CDT
No sexyback it would have been great prinze is a Comic
by merryhulkster
Geek! Tobey didnt start reading the comics till he got the role! and tobey looks jackshit like peter parker. since when does Parker havea Fat face, and talk like hes in special Ed?? and i read in a Ew article once that He was offered and Turned down the role Of cyclops, Cause he thought SINGERS SCRIPT WAS ASS! ( he was right) and that " it felt too much like fox's version of x-men, and not an accurate version!( right on both counts)!
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On My Head from "Spider-Man 2". I'm sorry all the reviews spoiled that - it sounds hilarious and something I would have rather gone in not knowing about.
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i remember reading some rumor along time ago from some inside source i think it was on superhero hype, that he thought prinze "looked to etnic" or Some stupid bullshit like that!
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I mean who are they gonna put in the next 3 movies for villians. Maybe lizard has some merit, but the rest of the old school villians suck big time. And if they lose Tobey and Rami, the consistency is gone. Dunst can be killed off anytime (I hope) and we can have Gwen Stacy for the next 3. Venom should have been its own movie, period.
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Durst is in it...it can not possibly fail at the boxoffice. Are you not entertained?
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The people who don't like the developments in the movie are socially retarded Venom fans who can't stand to see the most mindless and idiotic supervillain ever onscreen without five hours of screentime.
The people who are looking forward to the movie are suckups who totally accept all the changes, including the worse one "Sandman kills Uncle Ben!" and try to compare it to organic webshooter instead of realizing the fact that it's messing with your own franchise.
That's it.
I give up on movie fans. -
He's the Fucking Micheal kjeaton of the Spider-man Franchise! totaly Miscast but the Get=go, But people are Like ooh tobey's great cause hes the first actor to prtay him on film!(swoon) kiss my ass, there were a thousand better Choices they could have Chosen, Tobey Conveys JACKSHIT of Peter Parker spidey on film! vhes got the Geek part Down! but that should have been done with since the first movie! TOBEY WORST CASTING EVER!! THAT GOES DOUBLE FOR THAT FUGLY SKANK DUNST! MJ IS A FUCKING SUPERMODEL? DOES KIRSTEN DUNST LOOK LIKE A SUPERMODEL? FUCK NO!
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Tobey isn't the best 1st choice for spidey - he is too geeky and awkward and peter was never a social outcast like Tobey conveys. That being said, we have 3 movies with him and it would be better to finish the series with him than have a george clooney type transformation.
Venom is a quality character no matter what the fan boys who jerked off to comics in the 60s think. And talk about consistency, in the comics spiderman was never adored by the public, they always were suspicious of him including the police and JJJ. In SM3 all of a sudden he is a rock star. WTF!! The symbiote story line exposed peters dark desires and he gets tired of being the friendly neighborhood spiderman and starts to put some major villians away big time until he realizes the price for this new power will be his soul. -
to me Freddie Prinze jr or Jerry O connell would have benn WAY BETTER Spider-man/ Parkers!!
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im just Sick of seeing tobey he was miscast from the get-go! and Please Get rid of Dunst shes an even Bigger Ugly stain on this Franchise!!Can we get a Spidey that Doesnt act like a Fucking geek? His GEEK DAYs WERE PRE-Spidey thats it! and spidey was like a HANDSOME GEEK!! TOBEY LOOks Like such a Doofy DOUCHEBAG!!
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JJ needs to eat and Aunt May is a sexy tomboy beanpole.... 'Nuff Said.
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They are going to do Spiderman: The musical!
Have any of you seen a Broadway Musical? The Without a Doubt Most Entertaining My Fucking God I Wish All Movies Were As Good As This Musical!
And Bono and Edge are doing the music? I'm seeing a fucking opera that will rival "Phantom." Sorry geek bros, NO movie comes close to an American Musical on Broadway. Every story, every plot, everything, can be reduced to two 1-1/2 hour acts. Do yourself a favor, save up and go to NY and see 3 or 4 of them. -
Batman Begins flopped compared to the 2 Spidey movies.
370 million vs almost 800 million. No contest.
The general public were just not all that interested in Batman Begins compared to Spidey so stop holding Batman Begins up as an example of how things should be done. It took itself WAY too seriously which no superhero movie should EVER do. That was it's downfall.
The 2 spidey movies were vastly superior to Batman Begins, both in quality and in popularity.....so shut it!! -
Blade Runner was a flop and universally panned when it was released. It is now considered the one of the best sci-fi movies of all time. The Shawshank Redemption was a flop when it was released in cinemas. It's now one of the most praised prison break movies ever. Why do these people using money as the ultimate gauge for judging movies. I mean WTF!! NORBIT WAZ GOODZ COZ IT MADE $$$$!!! 4 REALZ!! C'mon Batman Begins was a masterpiece, easily the best comic book movie adaption ever.
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I'm surprised no review has mentioned this yet, but the way Sandman was taken down in the final battle, made no sense at all. I wont go into details but when you see it for yourself you're gonna be saying "wtf just happened" like I did. How would you defeat a villain that is immune to physical attacks and can just reform/regenerate any damage? From the looks of it the scriptwriters couldn't figure it out either.
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well i had a feeling theyd pull this shit. whatever...bring on Carnage in 4...and a bigger Venom. still looking forward to this
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This Dojo guy takes all credibility away from himself, when he says he's a big "Spiderman" fan & met Stan Lee & all this bullshit, yet can't even spell the mother fuckers name right?
IT'S "SPIDER-MAN" with the dash people!
Stan Lee has said that is one of his biggest pet peeves with Spidey, when writers & companies do not put the dash (-) in between and just spell it SpiderMan or Spiderman.
I know I'm not the only one who saw this, but Dojo needs Mary Jane Bitch Slapped & pissed on by Stan Lee for even saying he's "Spider-Man" fan! -
I want to get this ball rolling; As much as I love the Sam Raimi Spider-man, I would love to see the whole thing continue with a completely different cast and crew and done in the style of 300 or Sin City. THAT WOULD BE BADASS!
Oh, and Jessica Biel MUST be Wonder Woman! -
...and as long as we all go see the movie expecting to be entertained then it will a great movie. You will always have fan boys whinning about something not being right about it, so everyone go and make you own judgement about it. I'm a life long spidey fan and I follow the whole alien costume saga back in the day and I know this movie isn't going to follow any of the original stories dead on but I'll still love the movie just as much as I did the first two. So everyone relax, enjoy it and oh hey HAPPY EARTH DAY!
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I should very much hope they contemplate letting Venom have a massive Wagnerian resurrection sequence. Nothing kills Venom forever, its a symbiote locked and entrenched and ever preserving its host, Eddie Brock. Besides Venom needs to live again to spawn Carnage... Now that would be the movie worth making, VENOM vs CARNAGE!!!
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I really don't understand people who write cheap hyperbole like "I need to be consoled… I need to be held… I feel so alone… so cold… so betrayed… so misled…" Fucking lugubrious bullshit like that is a sign of either A) being a complete attention whore or B) meaning it, and being three seconds from a shooting spree. Take a vacation or something, dude. Stop seeing movies for a while. Mainly, because I want to go to them and not have your retarded emo ass simpering in the chair next to me and muttering how much it sucks between popcorn bites.
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Who the hell gives a goddamn shit about Venom? THIS IS A TRILOGY and I hope to hell there's no fourth movie.
Venom shouldn't have even been in the fucking franchise, but that's what you fans get when you're hung up on a certain villain. -
And Heath Ledger should play Aunt May in Spider-Man 4!
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...except he gives Raimi too much credit. Raimi's not a race bigot, he's a talent bigot. He didn't cast Freddie Prinze? Just because he can't act? Doesn't he know he's keeping the girls away? I bet he was behind Freddie's show getting cancelled, too. In it with that Nielson bunch. You know they don't count girls. Anti-girl, too, the lot of them! Every girl I know except most of them watched I Know What You Did Last Summers, and every one of them who did except all of them did it exclusively to watch Freddie Prinze. And that's not all! They should have gotten Matthew Lillard to play Harry and Sarah Michelle Gellar to play MJ. And Rowan Atkinson would have RULED as Green Goblin. Fuck Sam Raimi and fuck his prejudice against the untalented. That's the main reason why these Spider-Man movies haven't made a dime.
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truth
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Gives some weight to what the reviewer said up there about Arad. Marvel fans ought to be worried not just about him pressuring Raimi to put Venom in this film, but just his attitude in general. You have Raimi talking about how he wanted Sandman because of how it fit into the story and the character arcs they were trying to write, and then Arad coming in and basically saying fans like Venom so put him in there too, just cause. Bleh (still hopeful though, really want to dig this flick having loved Spidey 2).
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Apr 22, 2007 7:49:34 PM CDT
Batman begins did take it self way too fucking serious!
by merryhulkster
And Nolan is a fucking Pretentious Jackass!! "ooh penguin cant be in it hes not realistic" robin is implausible in the real world! OH PLEASE NOLAN SHUT THE FUCK UP!! I wish someone would REPLACE NOLAN FAST!!!
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1. Sam Raimi is Stephen Sommers with a bigger budget and better technical resources.
2. Even in the real world Kirsten Dunst would not make a very convincing Mary Jane let alone as a supermodel.
3. Jake Gyllenhaal would make a much better and funnier Peter Parker. I can even accept Joseph Gordon Levitt in the role.
4. Marginelli Casting which did the casting for extras is a rascist agency. Even though New York is largely diverse they only hired caucasians for background.
5. Topher Grace was wrong for Eddie Brock!
Final point: During the Imus controversy, one of the players hit it on the head -"it all comes down to money". The movie and music industries exists solely for the purpose of making money. Not to discover new talent or furthering careers. If any of you were like me you'd buy a bootleg copy as soon as it comes out and save my remaining $1.50 for the subway.
*BTW Freddie Prinze is Puerto Rican, Romani AND white. MENG! -
Sandman's character doesn't fit witht he overall story and character arcs in any way, and if Raimi didn't want Venom, he should have done something about it. At worst he could have made an excuse that Venom couldn't be established without establishing the black costume first, and then vanquishing it, then he could have made an empty promise to bring in Venom for the next chapter. While I think that Spider-Man is bigger than the entire team that has been involved in these films, I still think Raimi must have some kind of pull after two massive hits. These stories just make him seem so spineless.
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And way better than 2, by a long shot. I've seen it twice now. Anyone who claims to not like #3 is not a true Spider-Man fan. End of story. Good day.
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I still can't believe Peter says he can't be with MJ at the end. Goofy!
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a great character, he is akin to Doomsday or Darth Maul.
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interesting characters in Spider-Man.
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Ya think!? And guess what..."discovering new talent" and "furthering careers" ARE a part of thet process.
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I mean, Freddie Prinze Jr would have been a better choice? Do people really think that? I can act better than Freddie Prinze Jr!!! I've seen tree stumps that can emote better. And, Peter isn't acting like a social outcast because of Tobey, it's because of the script! Obviously, Raimi wasn't interested in just going with some pretty boy heartthrob actor. And thank God for that!
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The film was definitely flawed and just an "OK" kind of movie. It had some bright spots. It's not irredeemable like Batman & Robin. But it was the start of Shumacher's obvious interest in turning the franchise back into the old 60s TV series. Bruce gets more jokes in and at the end "I'm Bruce Wayne AND Batman." That was their thought that they wanted to make Bruce emotionally, healthy, etc. I recall Clooney's PR for the next film, saying that Batman's friends would tell him to get over it and stop acting so angry and obsessive (paraphrasing). What Burton at least understood was that Batman is kinda crazy himself. Schumacher and company wanted a happy Batman. Then, once happy, quipping Batman was in place, they went too far with B&R and ruined everything. No one seemed to recall that all the press around Burton's first film was, "See, it's not all silly and wacky like the old TV show. It's dark and creepy and violent!" That's why it was successful. Damned idiots. The most promising part of the film is, I think, the very first appearance of Two-Face. Rewatch that early scene. He's not cackling and dancing around like the Joker yet at that point. He seems serious and disturbed. He's then wasted for the rest of it. And the real reason for that is the studio's fear of people not responding to any villain not well-known from the TV series. Which is why Batman Begins was such a good sign.
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and Tobey an excellent Harry. They really should have flipped them, Franco is the more energetic actor. Peter is loveable not autistic!
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Yeah, Spidey 1 is mostly stinker.
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work in this, too.
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everyone made a big deal about. I always though it was messed up that MJ almost gets raped and then makes out with Parker in the alley. Ick.
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just a quote from Quint's VACANCY talkback that I liked.
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attacked by the Goblin? Aye, aye, aye...
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I think the reason I liked Spidey 2 was because there wasn't a classic storyline totally ruined by a Hollywood stamp. Yes Octopus is a classic villian, but he never really had the classic storylines, and I'm thankful Raimi didn't run with the story where he tries to marry aunt May. With the exception of the casting of Harry and Norman, I can't think of much of anything I enjoyed about the Goblin stuff in the first movie, and that was one of my favorite comic storylines ever.
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Smashing needs new clothes, how excited am I now.
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We all knew that while it might not kill the movie to cram so much stuff in (Venom, Sandman, New Goblin, girl rivalry) it would not be a good thing. And here ya go, we get the Spidey franchise version of Batman and Robin, and that's not good. I too would have preferred saving Venom for a next movie, but I don't think they knew for sure they were gonna do another one. Damn you, Avi Arad!
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"Holey Rusted Metal, Batman!"... 'nuff said! Don't worry, though, looks like Raimi dropped the ball big time, so some of the BF stench will be drowned out by the S-M3 stench! And with Nolan doing the Joker as a greasy-haired, pasty-faced emo-f*g, maybe Batman Forever will be forgotten entirely.
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"Oh this movie wasn't the way I pictured it in my head...not Venomy enough...This fucking sucks! whaaa!"
And like the person pointed out above, why is it that when ever there is a positive review everyone in the audience loved it...and vise versa for a negative review. -
and think that if a group share their opinion then it must be right. So as a consequence no-one ever sees the people that walked out of Superman returns (for example) and really enjoyed/ hated it. They think it adds emphasis to their comments- and ignores the fact that even in a minority of 1 the truth is still the truth.
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But a masterpiece? Hardly. It stands out in my mind as having some of the most poorly edited and choreographed fight scenes I've seen in a film in some time. The training ones were fine, but as soon as he becomes Batman it's all darkness and closeups. Lame. At least you can SEE what spidey's doing.
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"dies" in this movie.. Did you really think it would end with a cliffhanger or something? Come on. You guys are retarded. Especially with the cast and crew not confirmed for part 4, did you really think the storylines wouldn't be self contained?
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They were very rude on radio one. It premieres in London and tonight and Maguire and dunst will be on Friday night with Jonathan Ross.
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What a waste! No, he's not like Darth Maul, he's potentially a much more interesting villain than that and he's killed off at the end of a movie that has so many other villains? Yuck. I think they're making a huge mistake there. They should do the Gwen Stacy arc with Venom taking the role of the Green Goblin in Spider-Man 4! It's almost set up with the rivalry between Parker and Brock--with Gwen in the middle by accident. That'd be great! I'm really sorry they're wasting it.
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he will just reform, and give birth to carnage! Right? Come on!
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Exciting, funny, looked amazing and received a health applause upon its ending, the movie cleverly builds on the first two and I for one was blown away by the FX and the emotional aspects worked really well.
The Spider dancing scene is hilarious and Venom, who never gets named, by the way, is excellent, the scene from the trailer where he snaps at the camera seemed different to me, he was less visible and more gooey, toned down already?
Ignore the people comparing it to Batman and Robin, that film was all corny puns and bad fighting, this film is so superior to that one that the comparison is not only wrong but dumb.
All the villains worked well together and if I had a gripe it would be that the Sandman and Venom came together too easily though they where deliciously bad.
The door on Venom is not totally closed and even though Brock may be skinless he may still be alive within the symbiote.
The end fight is totally stunning, from its set up to conclusion and made the women in front of me jump and yell, all the main cast came out before the screening and during their interviews outside all mocked Lauren Laverne's crap interviewing technique, James Franco is a pretty funny dude, and damn if he is not totally handsome in the flesh, Grace silences all his critics easily and Howard is a delight every-time she is on screen, as always Maguire is strong and his faces make me feel for him, I like Dunst but know she gets a lot of flack, she was great again I thought, totally underplaying it and seeming stronger for it.
Best of the 3 for me. -
They say that Topher Grace takes all the menace out of Venom. They also say its awkward hearing his voice come out of Venom's mouth. Just as I feared....
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It modulates between his and Graces, he was note perfect as Brock and when he was Venom I honestly though he was really good.
Though thinking about it I do not remember any long scary tongue shots. -
Sam [Raimi] keeps saying that if there is a good enough storyline, then they would do it.
Okay Sam, here's my storyline for 4-6: The Sinister Six Trilogy.
There are several characters to choose from, but I would choose:
Electro
Vulture
Mysterio
Rhino
The Lizard
The Shocker
All of which would be awesome. I would suggest the following storyline.
Spidey 4: Spidey is still LOVED by NY. Electro gets his powers, and tries to control New York City's power supply. Spidey stops him for a bit, but is shocked by Electro's power. So as spidey makes a new costume to stop him [aided by Dr. Conners], Electro kidnaps Gwen Stacey and an Electron bomb from a local navy base. Electro then makes Spidey choose between saving all of New York or saving Gwen. Spidey chooses the bomb, accidently killing Gwen, giving him an ultimate lesson in humility. He then runs back home from the battle, telling MJ that they must get married quickly. Electro escapes the battle, nearly dead, to sulk away.
To be Continued...
Spidey 5: Mary Jane gets casted in a feature film being made by first time director, Quentin Beck. Beck, a stumbling fellow, makes a mistake and through a harsh mistake, almost kills MJ, who is saved at the last second by Spider-Man. Beck swears revenge, and by becoming Mysterio, the master of Illusions, he robs a large cash donation to New York University. Spidey looses him in the illusions, and with the money he makes from the robbery, he hires three convicts to assit him. He gives them their special tools to enhance them, and they become The Shocker, The Vulture, and Rhino. The four villians then learn of the ancient tablet of the Mayans, which states those who posses the tablet would be youthful forever. Spider-Man tries to foil them, but fails, leaving the four villians to escape to freedom.
To be Concluded:
Spidey 6: Peter Parker and Mary Jane are FINALLY getting married, and its the Press event of the century! They invite everyone, and they get a gigantic surprise. Dr. Conners, who is now a good friend of the family, forgets to take his self-induced shot and turns into The Lizard in the middle of the wedding, right before the I Do's. Peter gets MJ out of the way, and quickly changes to Spider-Man, almost defeating The Lizard, who gets away. He gets tracked down by Electro, who has sulked and watched the news unfold, in a sewer. Electro shocks The Lizard back down to a calm state, and convinces him to join along with him to fight Spider-Man. Aunt May, shaken by the wedding incident, is induced into a coma, while Peter puts the wedding on hold. MJ is mad, to say the least, and while she is walking through Central Park, she is kidnapped by Rhino, who takes her back to Mysterio's warehouse. At Mysterio's warehouse, the rest of the gang is waiting. Beck teases MJ, and is kneed in the nads, allowing her to almost escape. Electro pops up, and traps MJ in an electric cage. He motions to Beck to join forces to kill Spider-Man. They all agree to join forces becoming The Sinister Six. The Sinister Six, now knowing Spider-Man's identity, attack him while stopping a minor crime. The Sinister Six battle with Spider-Man, nearly killing him, but once he notices The Lizard lick the face of Mary Jane, he gets an uncanny amount of strength, killing the sinister six. The end of the triliogy concludes with the FINAL WEDDING of Mary Jane and Peter Parker.
The end.
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slone13 was right. AWESOME flick.
BTW in the original Marvel Cannon Harry wasn't Hobgoblin beetches!
Now, all that flack about the big V. Perfect. i think people psot on this board just to be hatin' he had like 45 minutes of screen time. How the fuck can you not be happy with that? What the fuck could Venom do for a whole movie?
It was wrapped up as it should be. and that fight at the end was awesome
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