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USA Today: VERONICA MARS & STUDIO 60 ‘Gone Or Nearly Dead’!!
I am – Hercules!!
“Passionate (if small) audiences have helped save shows such as Arrested Development and Veronica Mars in past years,” wrote Gary Levin in his April 12 “Save Our Shows” piece in USA Today, “though Mars' luck has run out.”
Each year around this time, Levin talks to the networks and divides their scripted series into three categories:
1) “Renewed or almost,”
2) “On the bubble,” and
3) “Gone or nearly dead.”
“Mars” falls into that third category.
Others on that doomed list include “Studio 60,” “Raines,” “Standoff” and “Close to Home.”
USA Today’s track record is not perfect; at least a couple of its “nearly dead” series over the years lived to see another season.
“Renewed or almost” shows, according to the paper, include “‘Til Death,” “Shark,” “How I Met Your Mother,” “One Tree Hill,” “Smallville” and “Rules of Engagement.”
“Bubble shows” on the paper’s list this year include “Gilmore Girls,” “Law & Order,” “Law & Order: Criminal Intent,” “Medium,” “Scrubs,” “The New Adventures of Old Christine,” “Supernatural,” “Friday Night Lights,” “The Knights of Prosperity,” “What About Brian,” “The Ghost Whisperer,” “Jericho,” “The Unit,” and “The Winner.”
A complete list of all the scripted primetime network shows and the categories in which they fell can be found here.
You can vote to save your favorites among the bubble shows here.
Fans are not as quick to write “Mars” off.
On April 12, the same day USA Today put “Mars” in the “done” column, E! Online announced that “Mars” and “Gilmore” were the two top finishers in its “Save One Show” poll. “Gilmore” was ahead, but only in the final lap, as E!’s Kristin Veitch explained:
Here's the play-by-play: For the first few days of SOS voting, CW fan favorites Veronica Mars and One Tree Hill were neck and neck, switching off between first and second place. Then, Veronica pulled ahead, steadily climbing and reaching nearly 40 percent of the votes, making it the clear winner for the next week and a half.
Then suddenly, in the last 24 hours of voting, you Gilmore fans must have put the pedal to the metal and rallied in all the right places, because the Girls pulled out of third place to come out on top—right before the Save One Show poll closed on Friday at midnight.
“Mars” mastermind Rob Thomas, upon learning of his show’s strong silver-medal finish on April 12, maintained that the CW had yet to make a decision on whether or not his show would receive a fourth season:
"More than ever, the letter-writing, vote-casting, plane-circling efforts of our fans may be just the push we need to make it back on the air."
Find the complete results of E!’s “Save One Show” poll here.
NBC has not yet announced when or if “Studio 60’s” final handful of produced first-season episodes will air.
The final five hours of “Mars’” third season (including its May 22 two-hour season finale) begin airing May 1.
The broadcast networks announce their 2007-2008 schedules on these dates:
NBC May 14.
ABC May 15.
MyNet May 15.
CBS May 16.
The CW May 17.
Fox May 17.
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Then suddenly, in the last 24 hours of voting, you Gilmore fans must have put the pedal to the metal and rallied in all the right places, because the Girls pulled out of third place to come out on top—right before the Save One Show poll closed on Friday at midnight.
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If NBC is dumb enough to cancel Studio 60 and Friday Night Lights then they deserve to be in last place. Hell, if they do this, they deserve to be losing in the ratings to the MyNetwork.
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She told me that she was positive it would be back for a second season. Now, I'm even hesitant to believe this because why would NBC make a decision before seeing how the final episodes do, and if they had this much certainty, why not AIR the final episodes. However, one person who WORKS on the show is under the impression it will be back next year, and I guess that's something. Fuck though, losing Studio 60, Veronica Mars, Raines, and probably Drive will be too much. Who'd have thought that the most popular show I enjoyed would be How I Met Your Mother?
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Fucking ridiculous. The one time when they don't use an arc, and the episodes will have little to know connection story-wise, and they get a two-part finale? Veronica Mars met every expectation of yours, CW, they even dumbed down their show for you, and you're still fucking them around. Rob Thomas, join up with Mitch Hurwitz or something and create something insanely amazing on HBO.
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I've heard that Lauren Graham may be interested in returning for a shortened season next year, and that is why the show is not listed as 'dead'.
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What the hell is MyNet?
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CW, you gave VM no promotion and have screwed any continuity for the show because you wanted to push the "Reality Show of the Month," and VM has not only kept its audience, it's given it a slight uptick. No other CW show will be entertained if VM isn't kept. I'm just one man, but hopefully, others will do the same so we can just tell you, "You F'd up."
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The West Wing and an infinite amount of story possibilities because of the nature of the setting. How many season could you make about a SNL-type show, it's cast, and some network bigwigs?
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It's one of the best crime series around! And Nicole Sullivan is in it!
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...to fill the void left after the WB+UPN=CW merger (many UPN stations were Fox-owned, in a market that already had a Fox affiliate). It tried to popularize the "telenovela" format (serial dramas with five episodes a week and finite runs of 13 weeks), but that tanked and it'll be nothing but reality shows next season.
Anyway, does anyone know if USA Today's imperfect track record also includes series that were thought to be "Renewed or Almost" winding up canceled? I'm still worried about the fate of HIMYM, since recent rumors persist about a CBS exec gunning for its cancellation despite not being perceived as being "on the bubble." -
Linda Park gotta eat. I mean, really, she's waifish enough as it is.
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I was hoping for Sports Night in an SNL veneer. In the end, I think it became too self-involved. Can a show become self absorbed? Too much politicing, too much monologing and too little...fun. A drama has to at least be enjoyable to watch. Studio 60 just isn't enjoyable apart from Matthew Perry.
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I can't fathom their logic. Hey retards, between my wife and I, we make over $200k/year, we have tons of disposable income, and you are canceling anything and everything we care to watch. We have all this money we want to give to your sponsors... how they hell are you going to get it if you keep murdering the channel?
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Apr 18, 2007 8:54:41 AM CDT
I just can't understand why STUDIO 60 is doing poorly!
by yotzvonfrelnik
I never cared a lick about West Wing or Aaron Sorkin, and after years of hearing people saying "West Wing this" and "Sorkin that" I finally found a show that really appealed to me. I don't get it! The show is good entertaining, intelligent comedy/drama. I never liked medical dramas either but I love House, so I'm still amazed that never got canceled.
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according to TV Guide and everyone else...
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Didn't care to check this out in its first season, but got into it from the start of season two and was pleasantly surprised by the writing and on screen chemistry of the main actors. Hell even the supporting cast that comes and goes is worth tuning in! And this year they created a recurring villain in the form of "The Trickster", a demon that gets off on creating mischief and mayhem. He was so cool that our heroes almost hated to have to off him. C'mon, give this show more time.
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Alan Alda as pres on a new West Wing show. VP can be John Goodman. And keep Toby, CJ, and the rest of the old cast. Democrats working for and advising a Republican Prez would make for an interesting show. Or just make them members of congress.
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Who Watches this?? Its dreadful and not remotely funny...
And I say this as a single male, not even the hotness of the leading ladies can make me watch it -
I hope it gets a second chance.
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Yeah, that will be sooooo hard. What else is on that network? X-Files lite and that Superman parody...
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Yeah, big surprise there. Limousine-lib Sorkin can't help but interject his wisdom into every characters mouth. Studio 60's demise was predicted months and months ago. I thought 30 Rock had a chance until I was treated to Tina Fey's take on "I'd rather date an alchoholic than a, gulp, Christian." Sorry, left & east coast libs, you want to go on ripping values and Christianity, you'll see your ratings suffer. But don't worry, you can just blame it on the rest of the country being stooopid! Focus on the drama & funny, stupids! And I tell you what, while your at it, if you REALLY want to show us how brave you are, rip on the Muslim faith the same way you do the Christians! (yeah, i didn't think so, you spineless cowards)
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I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty critical of comedies, and I think How I Met Your Mother is very well written and clever. This is coming from someone who considers Arrested Development, The Office, Sports Night, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, King of the Hill, Venture Bros. and South Park to be funny, so there's a sample of my comedic taste. I can understand initial hesitance to the show, but how often have you watched it? It's improved since its start, and it has tons of callbacks to previous episodes, which I think is always nice to have in a show.
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Who Watches this??
-I do.
Its dreadful and not remotely funny...
-Your sense of humor is obviously out of order.
And I say this as a single male, not even the hotness of the leading ladies can make me watch it
-So, after you get a new sense of humor, try to get a girl. Good luck for that. -
Agree with your favorites so I'll have to check out How I Met Your Mutha. Thanks. If it sucks, though, I'll have to call "crazy" on you.
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Agree with your favorites so I'll have to check out How I Met Your Mutha. Thanks. If it sucks, though, I'll have to call "crazy" on you.
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and i have much love for buffy love for willow and doogie howzer md, but god dammit, at the same time this was up, xander was in kitchen confidential on fox, and that was the best fricking comedy show that fox coulda had, but yet again they wnet and cancelled. incidently, teh dvd set for kitchen confidential comes out in may
http://tinyurl.com/22exfb - for some kitchen confidential streaming goodness
and yes VM has my vote -
Veronica Mars is yet another great television series left to wither and die in the uncapable hands of brain-dead beancounters like the jerks at the CW, WB, Sci-Fi et al. Oh, and biggles2_22 - the rest of the country is 'stooopid.' Crack open a TV Guide to any page and see. But a BIG thank you to all you wonderful heartland denizens for GWB, his federally legislated 'values' and for providing us with quality programming like 'NASCAR' and 'Hee-Haw.'
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...I didn't even bring up current politics, moron. This is a discussion we've had before. I maintain that injecting political beliefs into a series kills it for a large portion of the audience, no matter how smart or well produced a show may be. It just so happens that it occurs more often with liberals. The question you have to ask yourself is; at what point does my ideology get in the way of the marketability of my show? It happened with West Wing, it's happening with Studio 60 and it will happen (you heard it here first) with 30 Rock. But if you want to froth at the mouth about a lame duck prez (he's getting blamed for television programming now?), vent away, bro.
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"Firefly" will be brought back on someone's fall schedule? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
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...anyone remember how MASH started out as comedy and ended with Alan Alda weeping through each episode(it started when he took over as executive producer).
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...that's all.
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They were so quick to cancel other shows that they considered disappointing (The Black Donnellys, Andy Barker, etc.), but yet Studio 60 remains in limbo. Why? This show still isn't officially dead, and episodes are still being filmed. Granted, WB produces the show, but why is NBC so tight-lipped about this show's future? I personally think they should cancel the Television dinosaur that is ER and put Studio 60 on in its time slot.
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I give up.
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They cancel Andy Barker, which was a hilarious show. They're considering cancelling Raines, even though its their own fault for putting it on fridays when no one is watching. (They should be cancelling ER and replacing that with Raines) Now NBC is considering pulling Scrubs, even though its more popular then ever. If it wasn't for The Office and My Name is Earl I wouldnt even be watching NBC at all.
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after they see how much their original schedule will get its ass kicked by the other networks'?
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If it'll make you feel better, you can blame Nixon for Hee Haw. It started in 1969.
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I know I'll get alot of shit for this, but I'm happy Smallville will be back next season. Its a great show, and it needs one more season to wrap up all loose ends.
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Anything is going to underperform then. Why not move the game shows to Fridays, as people seem to be flocking to them regardless. Then, if they do do bad, cancel them, or keep them, as they're not exactly costing you a lot of money. It just saddens me that had Seinfeld and Cheers premiered today, they'd be gone by episode 6. The world needs more Brandon Tartikoffs.
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The show was doing ok ratings wise, hen they took that break and the ratings dropped. Networks can be pretty stupid
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they actually have some linear plot progression now. I've watched it from the start and wishit had been like this for years
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... but themselves. Season Two was convoluted and confusing enough for the slack-jawed yokels of America. But Season Three's ugly rape storyline and the inexplicable loss of most of the main characters (they were in the credits every week, but rarely showed up in the episodes) killed this show dead. A real shame -- its freshman season is still one of the best new discoveries my household has made in some time. Adios, Ronnie...
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People *hate* politically-biased television. That's why no one watches The Daily Show or Colbert or Fox News(two out of three of those are intentionally comedy...)so let me get this straight: the guy who blew up in television by writing a show set in the *white house* is meeting failure because his follow-up show is charged with political themes. grow the fuck up. and you have the audacity to call others out on "bringing politics into it" when you're the pathetic loser who started the name calling. It's okay dude, you're a talkbacker. it's what you do. Sitting in your cubicle at work, staring at the monitor, alt-tabbing into excel when your supervisor walks by, hurling your nonsense anonymous vitriol at the world in the parlance delivered to you by the talk demigogue coming out of the tinny speakers of the radio on your desk, trying *desperately* not to look at the pictures of The Kids and That Fucking Bitch you compulsively hung on the wall. I don't blame you; If I were as big a fuck-up as you, I'd be angry too.
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Studio 60 would be the double-sized cherry on top of the already excellent comedy sundae on NBC Thursdays. Makes perfect sense. So, of course, it won't ever happen.
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He wasn't calling anybody names. I wanted to like studio 60 but found it way too annoyingly preachy and not the least bit amusing. They lost me with their "hilarious" opening number to one of the early episodes that didn't make me even crack a smile.
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the disappearing main cast members. It's the CW's fault for cutting their budget. Sure, they could have avoided putting Piz and Parker in the credit sequence, but I don't think it would have changed much. Mac and Wallace will be featured prominently in the final 5 episodes though. Fuck, the final mystery was supposed to REVOLVE around them, but then they scrapped the mystery because they were worried about ratings, and now it doesn't seem like it will make a difference. I'll admit this season has been a little less in quality, but it's all entirely due to the network tampering with the show, and how fragmented it has felt. The only creative thing I've had a problem with is that Logan and Veronica have broken up/got together one too many times for it to still feel original and impacting. Oh well, I guess I'll go back to my Arrested Development, Sports Night, Angel, Miracles, and Clone High DVDs.
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How can Jericho be a bubble show ? This definately needs to be renewed. It's been getting better (written and acted) every week. A great counter to Heroes for CBS in the cheesy but fun hour long drama category. As for VM, they need to do whatever it takes to save the show. I still think it would be the #1 show on TV if they move the show to HBO and have VM go undercover at a strip club (how about the Bada Bing?) to solve a mystery. Who cares what the mystery is, but it's solving will necessitate Kristen Bell getting intimately involved with several of the other dancers in order to break the case open. It's Ratings GOLD Jerry !
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...since the beginning. I've never seen Studio 60, but if it's anything like Sports Night, I can't possibly see why they're cancelling it...(holds breath) okay, just kidding. I know we were all supposed to like Sports Night because of Sorkin's reputation and how "clever" the dialogue was, but face it, Sports Night was probably the best comedy ever that WASN'T FUNNY. It was thirtysomething with ESPN anchors.
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was the best episode this season. It actually sounded like a real GG episode, not the boring ass drama that has been the tone of the rest of the season. "Tne great part is, he's been hiding in that bull costume under that blanket for the entire meeting!" Hilarious.
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ok, well, women. But how about a decent network that won't screw it up? Maybe they'll call the FBI jump-forward something besides Veronica Mars. If they keep fucking One Tree Hill and kill VM, I'll be so pissed. I've never watched Gilmore Girls, so I coudn't care less if it went away. Back on Mars, Ausiello reports that Jake Kane and Clarence Weidman will be back for the finale. So does that mean "CW" will now say "It's NOT a done deal?"
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It has done terrible in the ratings, and can't even keep most of GG's audience. Its audience is a small group of fans.
I am shocked by Close to Home maybe being cancelled. I have never watched the show, but it seems to do really well in the ratings, usually either number 1 or 2 for the night on Friday, a hard night to get ratings.
I just want Friday Night Lights back. -
It's time to turn off the AM Radio.
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Raines is a very well-written, well-crafted show that could be used in screen writing classes. But it should have been on the old CBS, it doesn't really fit on NBC.
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There is no way that Ghost Whisperer is on the bubble. CBS has nothing else on Friday nights.
Medium and Christine are also likely safe.
How I Met Your Mother should have been renewed for multiple seasons after Season 1. It's the only CBS show that attracts the coveted 18-30 demographic and is by far the best sitcome they have.
As much as I like Studio 60 I would probably also have it as a bubble show because it's just not consistent and is not producing any kind of numbers. I mean if it's not even winning some awards what's the point? Even Arrested Development picked up some awards...
Here's my personal thoughts in a similar format:
"That's Still On the Air? aka Please Kill These Now!!": Raines, Standoff, Close to Home, ‘Til Death, Shark, Rules of Engagement, Law & Order: Criminal Intent, Jericho, Supernatural, The Unit, The Winner, According to Jim, George Lopez, One Tree Hill
“One More Year aka Wrap It Up For Your Fans aka Prove It or Lose It Sister": Veronica Mars, Smallville, Gilmore Girls, Medium, Scrubs, The New Adventures of Old Christine, The Knights of Prosperity, What About Brian, The Ghost Whisperer, Law & Order, Studio 60, Scrubs, Andy Barker, P.I., Kidnapped, Prison Break, Justice
“What's the Hold Up aka Renew It Already”: How I Met Your Mother, Friday Night Lights, Heroes, 30 Rock
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Anybody ever notice how NBC's ads for Thursday night give extended descriptions of the upcoming episodes of My Name is Earl, The Office, and 30 Rock. Then, they just say "and Scrubs." You wonder why thats the only bubble show they have on Thursday.
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I've seen every ep so far and think it's great.
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It will be back for it's 7th season.
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it won't be back,seeing as how about 6 episodes aired back in the fall and it has yet to resurface. Maybe Ron Livingstone can move over to 24 next season.
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It's met every condition the network set for the show when they decided to renew it for a third season, AND it's been doing it at a reduced budget, and one of the few critically approved shows on the network. It also has a long lifespan left, unlike a number of the network's shows (GG, Smallville...) I suppose it being cancelled wouldn't be as bad as when the WB cancelled Angel, which was their SECONG HIGHEST RATED SHOW at the time. Honestly, that made no sense at all. I hate when shows compromise from the network, and then still get fucked over. If the show is leaving anyway, then at least tell them and let them finish how they want.
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Or Kristen Bell. She would make me a very happy man.
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I don't hate Raines. I actually think it's fairly well written much like Studio 60 but sometimes that's just not enough. I just don't care for it's subject matter enough (how many I see the dead shows can network TV air) to watch it for another full season. I also love Scrubs but I really think it's got one season tops left...I just can't look at Christa Miller's 'botoxed beyond any emotion' face anymore. Doesn't it bug anyone else that she can't smile?
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Is your hate politically correct hate?
Do you believe that racism is wrong unless you hate white people?
Do you believe that sexism is wrong unless you hate men?
Do you believe that sexual discrimination is wrong unless you hate heterosexuals?
Do you believe that religious intolerance is wrong unless you hate Christians?
Do you believe that freedom of speech involves censoring offensive non-Politically Correct speech?
Do you believe that DoubleThink is hard and that DoubleThink is easy?
Do you keep such an open mind that your brain fell out?
Are you a hypocrite and a bigot? Do your friends praise you for it and call you morally superior? Do you think that your bigotry makes you a better person than others?
If your hate is politically correct hate then Studio 60 is the show for you.
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potentially getting cancelled. NBC pushed this show like no other over the summer. You couldn't watch an NBC show during the summer without seeing at least two Studio 60 promos. Sorkin went on to alienate a large portion of his audience. He freely engrained this show with his own personal politics which only appeals to a small segment of the general TV population. I am no fan of the Religious Right and I am not Christian, but I kinda found the Christian bashing rather offensive. Imagine if Sorkin decided to make Muslims the victim of his ire rather than Christians. No one would think it was ok then. Not every devout Christian is Ralph Reed or Pat Robertson. What Sorkin fails to forget that 80% of the country is Christian in one faith or another. Granted most aren't part of the Religious Right, but all the Christian bashing is sure to turn off a lot of this audience (the audience Sorkin needs to tune in to keep his show alive). I watched every episode of this show and will probably continue watching, but I feel the network went overboard to make this show a hit from the start and I won't blame them for pulling the show. I think the show has has alienated too many people to ever rebuild an audience. Besides, word is behind the scenes is that several members of the cast don't want a second season. When the Wedding version of Punk'd gets better ratings than Studio 60 and Black Donnelley's combined tonight (not something I am very happy about at all because we don't need another crappy reality show), Studio 60 will be doomed to burn off their remaining episodes this summer.
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I do agree that one of the biggest difference between this show and some of the more racist television shows in TV is that Sorkin aimed his bigotry towards a segment of society that is deemed ok to bash. As I posted in my last post, what if this was the same exact show and they substituted Muslims for Christians. What would hapen then?
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I don't know about that. I have Christian friends that are writers and they say they like Studio 60 specifically for the way it openly discusses Christianity in today's world and in particular the way it is perceived Hollywood.
Why is it that some say Sorkin unfairly bashes Christianity in S60 when for every argument Mattthew Perry's character (Matt) has against Christianity Sarah Paulson's character (Harriet) often has a solid honest rebuttal. I'd say that's fair coverage of the issues on both sides. The fact is that there are also those that have issues with Christianity (Sorkin seems to be one of these people) but I think he tries to use S60 as a forum for getting a dialogue started. I wouldn't say it is one sided by any stretch and neither would a lot of my Christian writer friends that actually love the way he writes Sarah's character. -
Because the first two were brilliant and the show totally deserved its 3rd season renewal. Now it's slowly drained away all its goodwill and I barely even care. I guess its a well-tread path for shows to go down the crapper once they get out of high school, but still, sad. Also -- why is CBS cancelling Close to Home? I know none of US watch it, but it gets solid ratings. As does Ghost Whisperer (on the bubble). They own Friday nights and it seems like they're messing things around just because.
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So...because Sorkin never worked in sketch comedy that he shouldn't have created a show about a sketch comedy show? That's like saying he shouldn't have written A Few Good Men because he isn't a Marine, or that he shouldn't have created The West Wing because he never worked in the White House. And how do you know what kind of research he did before he created Studio 60? The show isn't just about the sketch comedy show either, it's also about TV politics, of which Sorkin has much experience because of The West Wing.
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I would agree with that...I was just defending the Christianity related aspect of S60 and the growing perception that the problem was that Sorkin has created a Chrisitan hate show.
Sorkin's main concerns if S60 is renewed should be the fact that the show didn't have much to say about the actual workings of late night TV and that it wasn't as funny as a show about late night sketch comedy should be. I don't care if you want to make it smart (I mean the West Wing's first 2 season are still probably the 2 smartest seasons of anything ever put on network TV) but you have to make it funny. When the West Wing is funnier than Studio 60 you know you have a problem. -
Please discuss politics and religion elsewhere. This is a place where we discuss things like robots that look like humans in space, invisible islands that exist in parallel dimensions and comedy shows where characters say "I am a stabbing robot."
Thanks. -
It's been almost a week and hasn't been cancelled by Fox yet. Woo and hoo.
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The Christian bashing was a small part of a larger problem. I'm Christian, but I'm no fan of the religious right and wasn't particularly offended. Studio 60 just plain devolved into a bad show. Great cast, great production values killed by Sorkin's smarmy-as-hell writing. What's the point of actors when all you do is make them outlets for your political rants? And the main thing: WHAT ARE ALL THESE POLITICAL RANTS DOING IN A SHOW ABOUT BACKSTAGE SKETCH COMEDY? I'm a democrat and Sorkin almost drove me away from liberalism with his asshole tone alone.
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You'd better be administering the CPR, CW. And stat, cuz otherwise I'm done with your network.
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I think your friends may see it differently than many other Christians. In fact, I felt Sorkin made Harriet's character seem stupidly blind for being a Christian. The whole storyline that she would kowtow to the Religious Right because they didn't like her views on homosexuality which was portrayed by the show to make her look racist towards gays in the first place. I feel that Sorkin uses Harriet as a Christian as an excuse to bash Christians. It seems that most storyline that dealt with Harriet's faith, she either was either turning her back on her faith ("Crazy Christians") or her having it both ways, yet still coming off racist comments about gays (it's a sin, but who am I to judge). I don't see her as an equal balance of opposing point. I think she comes off more as a hypocrite and wishy, washy about her religion than anything else.
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very upset about VM being canvelled..but it was looking that way for a while. They severely messed up this season with the one-off mystery's..VM was great because it had a season long stroy arc, real rounded characters, snappy dialogue and had amazing pacing. I just don't get Studio 60, it seems like it tries to be samrt rather than actually being smart. Also will people cut out the stupid politics and religious crap spouting...no place for that here.
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LMFAO! BEST. POST. EVER.
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I agree that Christian bashing was only part of the problem, but it probably alienated a lot of the audience. The fact that all the characters were smug and preachy and seemed to think they were far more funny than they really were was a big problem too. I hated how everyone seemed to look down anyone who doesn't fit into their views whether it was Christians, Tom's parents, the VP of Reality Programming, a small town judge, etc.
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I'd be infuriated if CBS cancelled Jericho--almost as infuriated as I was last year when Invasion got cancelled.
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I love the show, and I'll admit that the show could focus more on sketch comedy itself, and that he may be out of his element. But he hired Mark McKinney because he spent years acting and writing in sketch comedy, and consulted him when he was unsure. This may have not been a magnanimous gesture, but he WAS making an effort to at least be partially accurate. And yes, NBC did promote the hell out of Studio 60 over the summer, and I guess the first few did underperform, but the show has found it's footing, and the last bunch were phenomenal in my opinion. NBC should be promoting the show like crazy now, when it actually needs it, talking about it's change, and greatness. They probably don't want to lose more money though.
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Christian Bale is a great Batman. Please quit the Christian Bale bashing.
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http://www.syfyportal.com/news423527.html
.....The official CBS announcement will likely be coming within the next week or so. -
When pasting it, backspace the "4" next to the "s" in "news." Fucking boards.
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Hey, haters, sorry for pissing you off so much. Truth can be a bitch. Working in the television industry (on the sales and marketing side of it) gives me a little more perspective than you teen titans of TB. Check your hate and understand were I'm coming from on this: If you've got a political show (ie Daily Show or Fox News, MSNBC) that's fine, and the audience will come looking for you! I'm sure a brain surgeon, like yourself Jed, knows the difference between political shows and enter-fucking-tainment. The point I keep stressing over and over, yet somehow doesn't sink into your heads of mush, is that when you take an entertainment show and inject it with a liberal dose (pun intended) of politics, you'll have yourself a ratings disaster on yer hands. If you can do it subtly, fantastic. The Simpsons do anti-establishment stuff every week and I laugh myself silly. I loved Arrested Development (even with the "Crazy Christian" family). But go ahead, keep thinking that way, rip on my religion, rip on my wife, rip on my kids, and rip on my values. You'll be continually perplexed by the constant cancellations of your blessed liberally charged talk-fests and be the angry little boys that you are. I'm telling you, I'm right on the mark on this one and more than willing to lay down a $20 bucks that 30 Rock will gone by this time next year. You two want to pool your tip money and take me up on it? Just let me know and we'll get in touch.
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There are no tv shows that are first pitch home-runs that stick around for more than three years. Twin Peaks, The OC, Who Wants to Be A Millionaire? all were overnight, unpredicted successes that were forced to try to improve upon already sky-high ratings. CBS could have the next Cheers in HIMYM, but they have to pay five actors while 2 1/2 Men only has three. There was a really good discussion on The Onion AV Club a few weeks back about how networks need to overhaul their season system. I agree: three seasons per year, with breaks between them built around sporting events and such. That way, you can tell a season long story without the long breaks that kill your audience, and you can put whatever trashy game show/reality show/hidden camera pedopredator show you want to boost your ratings and keep it short so its gone before people get tired of it. Also, the political "rants" on Studio 60 weren't out of place; first, they were mostly cultural rants, not political ones; second, they were between the actors/writers/director of satirical comedy show. Studio 60 had problems, to be sure, but that wasn't one of them.
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the difference is, while the simpsons would take their shots at christianity it was only occasionally the main focus of an episode and never the main focus of an entire season, and was done in a manner that was actually funny. I love the fact that people are blaming Americans on not being "smart" enough for Studio 60 to survive. I don't see what was so "smart" about the show to begin with. And it always annoyed me that nearly every charachter spoke with identical snarky snappy dialog. If you were to read a script without names attached you would have no idea who was saying what. I wanted to like it but in my opinion it was extremely mediocre drama, god awful comedy and not worth an hour each week
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the difference is, while the simpsons would take their shots at christianity it was only occasionally the main focus of an episode and never the main focus of an entire season, and was done in a manner that was actually funny. I love the fact that people are blaming Americans on not being "smart" enough for Studio 60 to survive. I don't see what was so "smart" about the show to begin with. And it always annoyed me that nearly every charachter spoke with identical snarky snappy dialog. If you were to read a script without names attached you would have no idea who was saying what. I wanted to like it but in my opinion it was extremely mediocre drama, god awful comedy and not worth an hour each week
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It's a sad state for NBC going around calling 30 ROCK & THE OFFICE "hits" when their ratings are fucking horrible. While STUDIO 60 generally pulled in better numbers than those two "ratings smashes," but is labeled a failure by the network. What the fuck?
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If you give it a chance and not spew venom on it before watching it, I dont' see how anybody could not enjoy HIMYM. The writing is very clever, and Barney is HILARIOUS.
Other shows I enjoy, for a variety of reasons: Smallville, Supernatural, Heroes, 24, Lost, Drive, My Name is Earl, The Office -
They're usually around a 5, which is not incredible by any stretch. However, the ratings are significantly higher among households earning more than $75K and among college educated viewers so it makes it an easier sell to advertisers.
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IMDB has posted today no NBC show is in the top 20. Studio 60 has been off the air for months, and Crossing Jordan is now on Wednesdays against Idol. NBC is running crap reality shows but not Studio 60 on Sundays. That's where it should be. The other shows on other networks on Sundays are winning by default. They would have a modest hit on Sundays, and could probably build it into a top 30 show by Nov.----later-----m
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Originally STUDIO 60 was supposed to air directly against TV blockbusters GREYS ANATOMY & CSI. To their credit NBC was wise to move it elsewhere, but Monday was clearly not the right night.
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I heard nothing but good things about Veronica Mars, but Studio 60 getting cancelled is fantastic!!! And NBC has THE best lineup for people with brains and good taste (especially now that 60 has been put out of his misery.) Friday Night Lights, Heroes, The Office, 30 Rock, and don't forget To Catch a Predator (ok no brains or good taste required for that one). The only shows I watch outside of NBC is Lost and House. If you think ratings matter, just check out the 'quality' of the Top 10 shows. American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, Desperate Housewives, Shark (!?!). I'd rather have a network produce quality shows like NBC does than go trawling for the lowest common denominator.
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Too bad about Veronica. The 3rd season is nowhere near as good as the first (one of the best single seasons of any show ever), but it's still pretty good. I only just got into this show this year, so it'll be sad to see it go.
If I were a network executive, I'd run the network by two rules: 1) Never approve a pilot unless I'm willing to commit to it for a full year. 2) Always give the show runner a full final season after making the decision to cancel it (with an exception for first year shows). I use to watch new shows all the time and now I hardly ever do, precisely because I expect everything to get canceled. I know a lot of other people feel the same way. If the networks would show some commitment to their shows, their ratings would go up. If they allow the canceled show to have a graceful exit, then they won't piss off the fans (as much). What I don't get is, with DVD sales, I have to imagine that all these shows make some money. Isn't some money better than no money?
Good to hear about Smallville. It's far enough along that I wouldn't be too upset if it was canceled, but this has turned out to be one of the best (if not the best) season to date. I hope they're given some advance warning so they can really turn things up before the end. Once VM and Smallville are gone, I'll remove the CW from my channel list. I use to watch both the WB and UPN. Now that they've merged and become the CW, I hardly watch it at all. Who the fuck is in charge of anything anymore? -
is a blast. I hope they bring it back.
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I wanted to love this show but it just gets worse with every ep.
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...they'd dump all their game-show bullshit on Thursday and move their "Night to Comedy" to another evening where they could benefit from the great reviews and word-of-mouth. Right now, they simply can't win in those timeslots. That territory clearly belongs to GREYS, CSI, SURVIVOR, & UGLY BETTY. Wait until those shows die-down (like DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES & LOST are), then put your "big-guns" back on Thursday to reclaim.
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the lumbering dinosaur that is the network TV industry should really reconsider what they cancel in light of what obviously has a loyal following. shows with passionate, dedicated viewers sell more DVD's.
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that makes me sad.
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Oh yeah, it consistently beats UGLY BETTY. And I wouldn't be sad if these past two seasons didn't suck ass; last great one was PANAMA - EXILE ISLAND from Spring 2006.
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and I could care less what the insane christans watch. No one cares about you except your weekly trip to walmart. Spend it on Jebus Cryst License Plates and Dishes. Insane...
Oh, and 30 Rock is very funny most of the time. -
I think next season will be the last for Smallville. I think Clark has done a lot of maturing this season, and is about ready to bust out of the Smallville borders and take on the world. I've enjoyed the run, but I think it's time he brought his game to the next level. I'd LOVE to see the show mature into a new series called Metropolis (In no way am I claiming originality here - other people have wished for the same thing at the end of Smallville). I think it would be cool to see the same cast mature and grow into a new, and much more serious series. I think the show is ready for it, and so are the fans. Get those tights on, Clark!!!
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...the only time we'll see Welling in the blue & red tights will be in the last scene of the series finale of SMALLVILLE (i.e. the 'reveal' in the Fortress of Solitude in SUPERMAN where he flies past the screen!) And I wouldn't be surprised if it's one of Routh's suits from RETURNS and/or THE MAN OF STEEL.
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"As in, you don't know if you should hit it or not." Just a sample of HIMYM's dialogue. I also had no idea that NBC was close to cancelling Law and Order, and a spinoff. They're going to have nothing left at all.
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As a MAJOR fan of the first 3 1/2 years of greatness...just let Lauren and Alexis move on to greener pasture$
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And it has been in huge ratings trouble since the first episode. The only show I care about on this list is Scrubs and that looks likely to come back since it's the last season and likely costs barely nothing to make.
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When it comes to Smallville, I'm definitely in the "fuck continuity" crowd. Tights are fucking gay. Maybe they weren't when Superman was created, but they are now. It's inconceivable to me that Clark would decide on tights for his costume. Either way, I have no desire to see him in any costume. However, I do believe strongly that he should start flying with say four episodes to go. I know they said he would never fly in the series but it would be fucking awesome for the final eps and it won't ruin anything.
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so they could renew 7th Heaven.
At least NBC learned they're lesson with "Joey" a shit show is a shit show regardless of when you cancel it after 2 seasons or 1. -
because it was pretentious as hell. for a perfect goof on what was wrong with studio 60 check out last week's conan o'brien sketch "Studio 6A on the Sixth Floor of the Rockefeller Plaza." Liev Schreiber as Conan O'Brien pontificating on politics on a show that's supposed to funny, now that's comedy!
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on my list of shows I watch on NBC. It's a great show too.
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Fuck networks. Their days are numbered and they know it. Maybe not this year, but within a decade (or probably less) TV networks will go the way of the radio serials. Bypass the dinosaurs and go straight to consumer. Sell DVD's, sell to Tivo/Amazon , sell to iTunes, sell to cable's on-demand services. No commercials, no networks, no skewed nielsen ratings guessing, no upfronts - NO PARASITES OF ANY KIND. Just sell direct to consumer - your sales are your ratings - as it should be!!!!
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And I'm a huge fan of those actors, especially Hannigan and the Freaks and Geeks guy, but wow, the few episodes I saw were painfully unfunny, trying too hard, and WAAAY too much laugh track. Maybe I didn't give it a chance, maybe I just can't handle multiple camera comedies anymore. If that's cancelled, then we can have Ally back on VM as Logan's sister! But that won't work if VM's cancelled too. Don't do it, CW!
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oisin5199, give it a chance, it IS funny as hell. If you ignore the stupid narration gimmic, it is basically an updated version of Friends with better writing and more likable characters.
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It honestly tells you what kind of a show it is. If you you liked Friends, its for you, if you did not, you probably won't like HIMYM. Thats about it.
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If L&O is cancelled it will be the end of an era. It really spawned the modern "police procedural". The show slips in quality now and then, but even this season has had some solid episodes. It's nice to have a cop show that isn't filled with over the top character angst or trying to be "cool". And I think Criminal Intent is often a very good show that's overlooked. As for Law & Order: SVU? I'm still amazed it's considered a great show. When it doesn't include some sick, perverted crime it's got the 2-dimensional acting of its two leads, including one who somehow won an Emmy. They also seem to go up against a Hannibal Lector style villain every third week.
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I made the EXACT same comparison. HIMYM is very tonally like Friends, but it's better written, and possibly better acted. Their commitment to arcs and callbacks also adds a lot. With it being "so similar" to Friends though, I wish it would get more press. It won three technical Emmys last year for stuff like cinematography ,but I'd love to see it be up for writing or at least Neil Patrick Harris for supporting actor.
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current season are what they show in place of their new series that are cancelled after 4 episodes. But in all seriousness, NBC screwed both Studio 60 and Raines with their poor scheduling. Studio 60 would have done better on Sunday, but it would have thrived on Thursday at 10. They could easily have moved ER to another night (after 10 years, or whatever, its audience would have followed) and follow their comedy shows with a show about a late-night comedy show. And Raines would have been a much better fit after Heroes than Dawson's Mobsters was.
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Fuckers! Heroes is the only safe show...so far, at this rate we'll be talking cancellation when the inevitable sophmore season slump occurs because it takes so damned little to get cancelled now. I'm still amazed they aren't talking about killing LOST. I don't like it but I could live with Veronica Mars ending on three seasons--but it means I won't watch anything on CW because...well, that's the only show they have I like. Raines isn't that bad, I don't get why they are already talking death. It should air with Medium. Oh wait, Medium is on the bubble now too. This is fucked up. America's Next Spoiled Shit Star and CSBFI Order and Law clones are ALL that don't get cancelled now. The networks had better get their acts together. I don't appreciate this "will my show be back" madness every fucking year now.
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Til Death?! I've never seen it, but it looks so completely terrible. How in the world is it getting renewed?!
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Basically not much substance; a shell surrounding nothing. No matter how many times you flush, it never goes away.
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Okay. I do like the show. But to say it's got better writing than Friends is some serious revisionist history. Watch some reruns, folks. If you want to say it's got better writing than Friends' FIRST season and it's weaker moments, fine. But HIMYM has some work to do to match some of the really sharp writing done when Friends was at it's best. Not to say it doesn't have the potential...it does, and the callbacks are great..how many slaps does Marshall owe Barney?...but the framing device is a serious handicap, and when the writing is off, it's off pretty substantially, as witnessed in several late season episodes from last year.
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you have the audacity to suggest, again, that there is non-entertainment television in the first fucking place. Also? the pompous idiots who represent mainstream christianity have it coming. They are public figures and fair game for scrutiny and parody. jay leno doesn't lose ratings when he makes fun of pat robertson, why should sorkin. And I don't know you from adam, chuckles; the only thing I'm ripping on is your crazy-ass vitriol for people who disagree with you. I'm certainly fucking questioning your values and your commitment to Christ if this is your attitude toward non-Christians; the Christians I know and respect don't get into this sort of baiting. Christians just can't admit that they represent the status quo in this country, and the civil rights movement has made every special interest in america take a stance of oppressed victimization no matter how ricoculous, from bulimics to pedophiles, and evangelical fundamentalism is no different. In conclusion, your predictions as to my vocation are (in contrast to mine apparantly) way, way off: I'm a drug-dealer, thanks. You got your stereotypes crossed.
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It was cultural. They weren't talking about welfare, or immigration, or who they vote for. They were talking about the slowly evolving, no legislation in the world can change them cultural issues like religious belief systems and gay marriage. They weren't debating policy. They were stating opinions. Its a huge difference. NBC cancelled/is cancelling/will cancel 60 because they bought a show from a guy they fired once before and bet all their money on it. They're tards. They shouldn't be allowed to run a business. Without endless hype, overinflated expectations, and a slightly less costly cast, it would've enjoyed a three year run before another network killed by running a shitty reality show opposite.
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I also like and in some cases love the shows you list, so I'll give HIMYM another go, but I did watch most of the first season and didn't laugh very much at all, and frankly there are stll much better shows around that do make me laugh loads...try Peep Show, Green Wing, even the new Doctor Who (which works FAR better as a comedy show than an adventure show)
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that's the buzz. I still think that because that are working on the show have been told it's coming back next year is a mildly optimistic point that it may return.
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They finally took the hint after Christmas and turned up the heat on the main story/conspirocy. Dead exciting now! Keep it going!
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I am not surprised that Veronica is on the verge of being cancelled. It's brilliant, thoughtful, and very much well acted. Why keep it when you have classics like "The Next Pussycat Doll?"
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...that NBC is apparently giving 30 ROCK & FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS "second-chance" seasons to find an audience, I could see them do the same for STUDIO 60 considering their relationship with Sorkin. It's possible, but I'm not holding my breath...
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Dude, I was trying to have a reasoned debate with you ABOUT WHY TELEVISION SHOWS GET CANCELLED, but guess what? You're just plain old nuts. Wipe the froth away from your mouth, step away from the computer, and, please, try to contain your hatred. (Maybe see a counselor.) Just remember, Christians aren't the bad guys. You're only on this planet for a blink of an eye so try to make the best of it. If you're this unhappy with people with religion in their lives, maybe (I'm going out on a limb here.) it says more about yourself and less about those that you rail against (funny, but the same goes for Sorkin). Just something to consider as I hope that after time, you'll get a better perspective on things. Oh, and my bet still has no takers.
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Jed used it in a post above.
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Ugh. Just laboriously scripted. Miscast from top to bottom. Jokes telegraphed, and heavy from being, "a little too inside." The religous right stuff was a complete misfire. Amanda Peet! Horrible.
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It takes the Friends idea young, adults just out of college, and makes it real and relevance.
Lily's the college friend turned girl friend and fiance, we all wish we had.
A hot chick who gets Star Wars. The original.
Gotta love a chick who thinks guns are cool and Die Hard is the new Godfather.
And Marshall. If we don't all have that geeky enthusiasm for life we really should. say it with me folks. "We are Marshall."
Ted is credible nice, sometimes angry and selfish, sometimes just awkward and the writers aren't afraid to show the flaws.
Barney is one the most original and hilarious sitcom characters I've seen in years.
It fields pop culture references with a skill rivalling Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon at their best. And again refrences that people who grew up in the '80s can actually appreciate.
Catch the "Field of Dreams" part of the Robin and Ted's first fight episode "Ted Moseby: Architect" the reactionas of Marshall and Barney are priceless.
It portrays the awkwardness of love, the challenges of friendship, as well as those of living in the city after college: money, jobs, places to live. -
Also, Barney's flashback of him losing his virginity, but it's actually Footloose, is one of the best pieces of editing I've seen on television. It is completely seemless, and had I never seen the movie, I'd think it was actually him.
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Hope it doesn't get canceled or i'll be super pissed.
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Studio 60, Veronica Mars, and Raines are three of my favorite shows on television.
The arrival of non-network-driven tv cannot come too soon. I would happily pay for a cable service that allowed me to pick and choose what was streamed to me and what was not, (goodbye reality TV, most sitcoms, and anything whose target audience appears to be in the midwest).
Regarding Raines, the word was that it was doomed from the outset, as the network shorted its order down to 7 episodes... before they even aired the pilot. WTFever. -
I found the show boring and pretentious. Forced myself to watch two episodes before finally giving up, which was two episodes too many. Rather watch the History Channel than this network crap. Thank God for Entourage and cable tv.
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This show has been limping on now for about 2 seasons...ITS OVER!! DEAL WITH IT!!!!
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I tried the first two eps and found it laughably bad. Did any of you, who feel it's now getting good, feel the same way as I did back then? I wanted to like that show. Did it become less cheesy? I'm not flaming it, I'm genuinely curious.
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Is a perfectly cromulent word.
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It took weeks to clear up.
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Jericho is cheesy and preachy but if you get by the Midwestern Ah-shucks moments it does deliver a few thrills. I love the show personally and really want it to come back. I even like characters who in the beginning drove me fucking bonkers. (The mom still must die though-god i hate her). The overall arc mystery is pretty cool. Id love to see were a second season would take the show. Just my 2 cents. Also god please bring back : FNL, Studio 60(my wife and I love the characters- fucking sue me)& Supernatural. Veronica we had two wonderful years together and then you blew it. I want you gone from my life so I can remember the good tiems. Year 4 would just bring more bullshit like wimpy janitor Weevil & pussified Logan and I can't have that. That is all.
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http://www.moviehole.net/news/20070418_dead_like_me_movie_greenlit.html
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WOW, I did not expect them to listen to my post above SO soon. Way to go!!!!!
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is just cheesy fun. It's better than it was, but by most standards, is by no means a great, or even good show. It's 1/3 sappy family values stuff, 1/3 WTF illogical stupidity, and 1/3 somewhat intriguing stuff by the only intelligent characters on the show.It will be overwhelmingly stupid for the CW to cancel one of the few good show it has, but OTOH, the subjugation of its producers had to stop at some point.A DLM movie sounds great, but only if they have the original cast.
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Somebody else on a previous TB summed up this series best: It's nuclear Armageddon presented by Hallmark. Jericho is a contradiction on many levels. Great actors tasked with playing dumb, sometimes immature acting characters doing absurd things in equally absurd situations. Mentions of religious faith have been oddly absent, despite the fact that the series is set in a small Kansas town and the world (the United States) has been destroyed. The premise and plots remind me of those right-wing novels about an America that has dissolved and splintered into civil war (which is starting to happen on Jericho and will probably be elaborated upon in a second season), and yet Jericho is probably more socio-politically lefty than 24. The show is not great, nor is it necessarily bad. It is just loopy -- not in a B-movie, campy way; you don't laugh at this show. You watch with a "I can't believe this" mindset but still keep watching. Frankly, Jericho is more compelling than Drive. Drive's premise is gimmicky and the writing plays this up loudly and flashily. But Jericho exudes a modest, simpler, salt-of-the-earth vibe regarding its premise.
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...and I realized that either The Office is a hard act to follow, or 30 Rock is JUST. NOT. THAT. FUNNY. I also realized that My Name Is Earl is underrated, but that's a different TB. My prediction stands that 30 Rock will be 30-Rolled within a year. Oh, and GO TEAM VENTURE!
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Alec Baldwin shows everyone why he's become a champion for the left. Keep in mind, this is a phone message to his 11-friggin-year-old daughter! Take out the space between the "bald" and the "win". hee hee http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/0419_bald win.mp3
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I totally agree. I wanted to like it, but it was just so horribly cheezy I couldn't really focus. Sometime around the middle of this season, though, it started getting better. A lot better. Better acting, smarter writing - the whole 9 yards. It really has a lot of promise, and you should give it a chance. As long as the scene doesn't focus on the IRS agent or Jake's mother (whose a humongous cunt), it's pretty damn entertaining.
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just a thought.
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I just got into the damn show, now it's getting taken away. Wah.
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hee hee
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Cursing out your 11-year-old (or is that 12-year-old, Alec?) daughter and calling her brainless and a pig is a sure bet to get Imused. Team America's revenge against the Film Actors Guild is now complete!
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It certainly wont help 30 ROCK which is already doing fucking horrible in the ratings. But Hollywood will look past it and probably give him an Emmy b/c they like him. The public, on the other hand, hate the guy already so...
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last week when Tina Fey was (whew) relieved that the guy she had a crush on was an alchoholic and not a (gulp) Christian.
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Although I don't want any of them to be canceled, LOCI has really declined since René Balcer was replaced as show runner by Warren Leight. Treacly melodrama, all the idiotic, superfluous camera stuff (leave that to the CSI shows), they even got rid of the gavel sound! I read that Balcer is doctoring the last few L&O scripts -- I wish they'd bring him back as LOCI honcho. Seasons 2 & 4 are among the greatest L&O seasons (hell, the greatest TV seasons) ever.
As for SVU, I disagree with BizarroJerry. I think Meloni & Mariska are both t'riffic. (You should check out some "Oz" DVDs to see some other great Meloni performances). And Mariska has also been consistently good. She definitely deserved the win for the episode "911". -
Amazing, 10 years ago who would have thought that you could take the number one of the big 3 networks and make it air less than 10 hours of scripted programming a week. Bravely shooting for the CWs current spot! GE what the hell is going on over there? Jack Welch would have shown the current NBC management the door SO FAST, these current guys keep getting promoted for screwing up and launching idiotic revamp plans. Airing 5 hours of reality / gameshows a week in primetime is just going to make it worse. If I was a GE stockholder I'd be writing very angry letters.
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How much do you have to suck that your mistreated cable networks (And long time loser in the case of Scifi) launch better shows than you? 4400, Psych, and Monk make USA have either the best or second best line behind FX on basic cable. Scifi is doing much better this year with Battlestar, Eureka, and a few of their other shows and less reality garbage. What the hell is going on? Can GE Universal only have one side of their TV business working at once?
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Terrible show. I'm sure The Daily Show would welcome Corddry back with open arms. YAY
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Okay. I worked at NBC in Prime Time Development for a few years (back in the early 00's) and I can tell you what messed that network up; They had two of the most unhappy and bitter people running their Comedy Development dept. Seriously. They knew nothing about comedy. Not ONE good comedy came out of the years they ran that dept (well..maybe Scrubs..but that is it). Their names were Joann Alfano and Larry Hancock. Somehow they still work in 'the biz', which is shocking. Look at their track record. They ran NBC comedy into the ground. They road the coattails of what was there when they started (Friends, Seinfeld, Frasier, Will and Grace, etc..) and basically did nothing with their jobs. It's quite sad. NBC was on top for so long- it's interesting how it only took 2 people to tear them down.
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