April 5, 2007, 8:06 p.m. CST
by Jimmie Dimmick
April 5, 2007, 8:06 p.m. CST
Damn Australia always gets things so much later...
April 5, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST
I actually had no desire to see this until this review - I'm sold
April 5, 2007, 8:30 p.m. CST
I love it when a film(s) exceed expectation. That it's more than just camp and revamp (or at least according to Mori) is encouraging...
April 5, 2007, 8:40 p.m. CST
I hope to enjoy the whole Grindhouse experience as much as you Moriarty. Your review is pure dynamite.
April 5, 2007, 8:52 p.m. CST
Boss! Can NOT wait to see this. These. Them.
April 5, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST
Your review here is probably one of the best I've ever read. Well reasoned, exciting, and without fault. Sometimes I wonder why I keep coming back to this site, what with all the bickering and film-bitchery (I'm looking at you, MERRICK, you snobby bitch. Indeed, I am aware of the irony here...), and you've reminded me again tonight of what can sometimes come of what is essentially a fanboy free-for-all. Really, keep up the good work!
April 5, 2007, 9:13 p.m. CST
by bob oblaw
Got my tix, baby!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!!
April 5, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST
Got my tickets for the Village Alamo, and looking forward to a beer and a Enter the Dragon. Woo!
April 5, 2007, 9:38 p.m. CST
...but I've never been this high up before. .........wow.
April 5, 2007, 9:57 p.m. CST
by Mr Bonefish
Man, sometimes it doesn't pay to live in the boonies. I should have caught a flight to civilization where I could hang out with you crazy mofo's and watch the show. ah well.
April 5, 2007, 9:57 p.m. CST
by The Southerner
I wrote a review and sent it in to this site. It wasn't posted and I would like to say thank you. I'd only seen it once and really didn't let it gel in my mind. Moriarty, you pointed to things that I originally hated, but now hearing your point of view and perception, I'm actually a little enlightened. I need to see them again, especially Death proof. Planet Terror never let up. It just hit you over and over. Then Death proof comes and it felt like a snail with all the talking. But i can see what your saying and it makes sense. And Mori, you are right on about the car chase-THAT i don't need time to think about!
April 5, 2007, 10:16 p.m. CST
Just got one class tomorrow then it's the muthafuckin Grindhouse! I do not remember being this excited for a movie in a really long time. Mori's review makes me salivate at what awaits me. awesome review
April 5, 2007, 10:36 p.m. CST
Thats a ballsy review right there, good stuff. Only at the GRINDHOUSE.
April 5, 2007, 10:36 p.m. CST
Dear Mr. M, I always come to AICN for my scifi/horror/entertainment news, and your site does do a great job of supplying said information before anyone else. And, of all the reviewers/commentators I agreed with over the years on this site, you were my favorite. Harry and the others seemed like "sell-outs" (to use a term I hate myself)- but you always came across to me like a free thinker... UNTIL you sided with the MPAA over the latest 'snuff film' soon to hit the theaters. I don't even remember what it was titled. I don't enjoy those kind of "snuff" films AT ALL. But you went on some kind of moral crusade against this film to "protect" the innocence of your child. Okay, so you've become a big pussy, whatever. A lot of people in this country are pussies. But then you praise a film like "Grindhouse", which is full of sex and violence, just days after your pathetic, moralistic, 'save the children' based rant against aformentioned "snuff film"? You've lost all credibility with me, and this site as a whole is SHIT. I'll continue to come here to hear the latest news, but as far as commentary, you can (now) ALL fuck yourselves. Your collective opinions mean nothing from this point on. The last lighthouse has flickered into darkness.
April 5, 2007, 10:45 p.m. CST
I didnt think I could be more geeked to see this.Damn good write up Mori.I live in jerkwater so ,I dont think Il be seein this till Saturday night (weak)
April 5, 2007, 10:58 p.m. CST
One minute I super want to see, next I wanna wait till DVD. Sometimes I'm psyched (after watching "Thanksgiving"), other times I'm inexplicably "meh" about it.(Hate when people bitch about things like this, but the Missing Reel thing was kinda grating on me). Luckily, this review lifted me again and I can't wait to check it out tomorrow!
April 5, 2007, 11:18 p.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
Really good read. Now I'm really souped for tomorrow. I have my midnight show tix in Times Square. It's on baby! Grindhouse baby!
April 5, 2007, 11:48 p.m. CST
by Quake II
which is fantastic for a gory, sexy, loud exploitation tribute movie. I like how some critics dislike Deathproof and others dislike Planet Terror. Grindhouse will be a great way to guage the IQ level of the audience. My guess is that DeathProof is 10x smarter and more engaging than Planet Terror. Tarantino is the real deal and Rodriguez is a hyper active kid with a camera.
April 6, 2007, 12:13 a.m. CST
by Quake II
I wasn't this excited about the last 2 Star Wars films. This is THE summer movie for me this year.
April 6, 2007, 12:30 a.m. CST
Seriously, I don't think a nuclear weapon would factor into this movie. And what does black girls have to do with nuclear weapons? Is this a Kanye thing or something? I know he thinks AIDs or something was parachuted into certain black neighborhoods by the gobment, but surely if they fucking NUKED a ghetto, we'd done heard about it by now.
April 6, 2007, 12:32 a.m. CST
To the tee, it sounds like right before SNAKES ON A PLANE debuted. Harry was gooing all over it. Quint was the same. Moriarty too (with all due respect... nothing wrong with liking a movie) Etc. Etc. Etc. Fanboys were pumped beyond belief of AICN's positive coverage of the movie. They said, yeah, it's a ridiculous flick, but it's supposed to be that way and it's meant to be celebrated as a fun theater experience. SOUNDS EXACTLY like GRINDHOUSE. The ONLY dark horse factors are the names Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez. But then again, good ole Sam Jackson was in SOAP. The Hype is near identical, as is the enthusiasm. And we all know what happened when SOAP debuted. It came and went like a silent fart that didn't even bother to stink. <p> I'll go so far as to bring up fanboys' hate for Transformers. Even when people like me say, "Hey, I just wanna go to a fun flick and see robots fucking transform and kickass", fanboys scream "If that's all you want, then you're part of the problem of Hollywood making shitty movies." Well my friends, if you're against Transformers and hold that opinion against people who do want to just have a blast seeing it, and then go against anyone that talks down to GRINDHOUSE basically as being nothing more than big names making a vanity piece on shitty movies, then you my friends ARE hypocrits. Sorry to say. "B-but... it's different with Grindhouse. It's QT. It's an homage to..." <p> .., an homage to, shitty movies. Hey, I'm not ripping on people that will have a fun theater experience. Nothing wrong with that at all. Fun is good. But it's just funny to see A) What HYPE AICN can create on movies that they even admit are crappy, and B) How when the tables are turned on certain TBers (i.e. Transformers vs. Grindhouse support), the justifications that they stand by for one film doesn't really apply to any others that they aren't looking forward to. "But with Transformers we're talking about source material that stems from our childhood... yada yada yada". I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a general movie going fun experience.. which can happen just as much with Transformers as with Grindhouse. <p> But we'll agree to disagree. I know. I'm an asshole. But we can't suck each other's dick all of the time on TBs, right?? Some people have to balance things out:) Regardless, I'll see the flick for two reasons... Kurt Russell and Michael Biehn. Because for some reason, Hollywood doesn't give them enough work!
April 6, 2007, 12:55 a.m. CST
I still haven't seen it and really don't plan on going to in the near future. It just didn't seem like that good of a movie, or even that fun for that matter. I tend to look at whos leading the project more than who's acting in it. I like Sam and all but he shoulda been more selective for SOAP. I'll end up seeing Transformers cuz hey...splosions, and that's what Bay is good at. Rodriguez and Tarantino are great for genre flicks which i think justifies my enthusiasm. But you know what Moto? Kurt Russell was laughing pretty hard, so i guess it's okay. Michael Biehn seemed to be enjoying himself too.
April 6, 2007, 1 a.m. CST
I know...but i hope that this movie doesn't blow my proverbial load too early...i mean it's hardly summer and we're already getting this fanboy erection on the big screen. Just hope Pirates and spidey don't disappoint.
April 6, 2007, 1:13 a.m. CST
by THE KNIGHT
I shall read the review now...
April 6, 2007, 1:37 a.m. CST
there could be a movie called "Twilight of the Willows" featuring nothing more than Judi Dench taking a shit for 2 and a half hours and if he saud it was good id see it.
April 6, 2007, 1:51 a.m. CST
Don't worry about getting laid, because it's not gonna happen. Ever.
April 6, 2007, 2:27 a.m. CST
ur kinda all over the place with that post. make up ur mind, man.
April 6, 2007, 2:40 a.m. CST
This one should be seen in the shittiest theatre in your vicinity to accentuate the Grindhouse of it. No pressure, but that's my advice. Oh, and though I haven't seen Grindhouse yet, I'm going to make the predection that comparing SOAP to Grindhouse is sort of like comparing Christian Slater to Jack Nicholson.
April 6, 2007, 2:45 a.m. CST
Excellent review Mori, can Harry also weigh in with his analysis of Grindhouse. It's a pity you have to reside outside North America to see longer, extended versions of the two films, as they're going to be shown separately internationally.
April 6, 2007, 2:57 a.m. CST
No money from me, fuckers! Instead of watching Tarantino (the guy who has invented cinema)'s latest piece of shit, I'm gonna re-watch Vanishing point and Duel instead.
April 6, 2007, 3 a.m. CST
poopie! lighten up. tarantino rules. :-) :-:) :-0:-:))_:_):-;0_:-0:-0:-;--;;-
April 6, 2007, 3:02 a.m. CST
they had scenes for it in the trailer!!! it will be on the DVD for sure. the Austin group of chicks were lame as hell though...VERY shitty acting. the second portion ladies did the same 'round table forced Tarantino dialog scene' and pulled it off MUCH better. Rosario Dawson didn't annoy me for a change. if you're thinking about opening that door...DON'T they showed the Hobo trailer, but not the other 2. i would have gone nuts if they showed Maiden Of Death!
April 6, 2007, 3:07 a.m. CST
by Cotton McKnight
It's just annoying, that's all. I'm not saying Moriarty is lying, I just think it's annoying. We get it, dude, you're big time. You're hollywood. You know people. Whoopie.
April 6, 2007, 3:08 a.m. CST
it's gonna start selling like hotcakes just because of this movie. if your video store carries it, you'll have to be put on the waiting list.
April 6, 2007, 3:31 a.m. CST
don't lie, you drive a minivan with a four-banger. A mid-90s Nissan Quest or some emasculated shit like that. The only "screams" coming out of that thing are when you roll back the sliding side door on its worn bearings.
April 6, 2007, 3:51 a.m. CST
Can't wait for this mother fucker, can't wait for this mother fucker. Mother fucker can't mother fuckin wait.
April 6, 2007, 3:58 a.m. CST
And Ahole Ramirez, if you stick around for Death Proof (many in my theater walked during the first loooooong dialogue sequence), then prepare to be N-Bombed. Fair warning.
April 6, 2007, 4:11 a.m. CST
Gotta see this one! And besides: Fuck those german distributors to release GRINDHOUSE as two movies, with a delay of 2 month or maybe more between and for not hyping or selling it to a hungry audience of fanboys! SCREW YOU!!!
April 6, 2007, 4:26 a.m. CST
by Jon E Cin
Holy crap. Amazing. Best time I've had in a movie theater in a long long time.
April 6, 2007, 4:43 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... find one place I "gooed" all over SNAKES ON A PLANE. Or where I even reviewed it well. I didn't even participate in the inexplicable nonsense ahead of time. You got the wrong guy if you think I had anything to do with the hype on that film.
April 6, 2007, 5:09 a.m. CST
Wow, it was fucking brilliant. Rodriguez's was kick ass and fun, Tarantino's was hard-core and raw. Both had amazing actors and I'm glad they put it in the order they did. Tarantino's was totally a kick in the nuts and would have taken some of the "whoopee!" feel out of the experience. Which isn't to say it was bad, it was just more serious.
April 6, 2007, 5:09 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... you seem to have completely misunderstood the article you're referring to. I never spoke out about the content of the film. At all. The article was about the way a company did an end run around the process that EVERY releasing company has to comply with when putting together the ad campaign for their film. <P>No hypocrisy. You just didn't understand it, or you're intentionally choosing to try and turn it into something it wasn't. If you want to storm off in a huff, feel free, but you're wrong about what you think I said.
April 6, 2007, 5:11 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... Tracie Thoms is fairly liberal with her use of "the n-word," as you call it. Most of them were her own addition to the dialogue, so I'm not sure you can really lay all the blame on Quentin here. If it makes you uncomfortable, definitely take this as a warning. I think context is everything, and she uses it like salt and pepper on a meal, a punctuation mark more than anything.
April 6, 2007, 5:14 a.m. CST
Pretty sure I saw you at the 11:00 P.M. New Beverly screening. It was everything I hoped it would be... Oh, and the movie is beyond cool.
April 6, 2007, 5:18 a.m. CST
I really want to see "Don't" even though it would probably never work as a feature. "Thanksgiving" was great too and would probably make a great/crazy movie, and I'm glad I didn't spoil myself by watching it online. "Werewolf Women of the SS" was kinda disjointed though. Jesus, what a phenomenal experience. Can't wait to see Machete for real. Oh one criticism... all the breasts were in the trailers and there were none in the movies themselves. What's up with that?
April 6, 2007, 5:24 a.m. CST
Hey Moriarty, i love Kurt Russel but come on! You're glad Rourke didn't play Stuntman Mike? Get the fuck outta here. Mickey would've been awesome. But we'll never know who'd be the better choice, now will we...
April 6, 2007, 5:29 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... for a third time now, there are a few more things I'd love to comment on. Consider this post very spoilery, something I tried to avoid in the actual review. I figure at this point, you guys are all actually able to see it. <P>I think Rodriguez typically writes appropriate score for his films, but until now, I don't think he ever wrote a great theme. PLANET TERROR finally delivers that great theme. <P>One of the things that always makes me laugh is when you have a bad-ass theme in a movie, and at some point, you get the "sad version" of that theme. Well, Robert does that here, and sure enough, it sends me into fits of laughter because of how dead-on it is. <P>Naveen Andrews and his obssession with balls cracks me up, too. I think Bruce Willis absolutely crushes that monologue about Osama Bin Ladin. No one else would have spit it out that way, and Willis never once plays it as a joke, which is why it works so well. <P>I love the matte painting of the destroyed civilization in the last few scenes. That is an image straight out of late-night Cinemax, circa 1986. And I love how the film turns into THE TERMINATOR at the end, with Cherry Darling and the other survivors all post-apocalyptic in wardrobe that looks like it came out of someone's closet. And that freeze-frame... ahhhh... that freeze-frame. Right on.
April 6, 2007, 5:31 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I love Mickey. I'm a little freaked out by the new Mickey with all the plastic surgery and stuff, but he made a great Marv. No doubt about it. <P>I just don't think there's any chance Mickey would have played Stuntman Mike as a big fat pussy, and when Kurt finally shows his true colors, it's one of the things that makes me squeal. I love it. Can't get enough of it. So in this case, I'm reeeeeal glad the casting shook out the way it did.
April 6, 2007, 5:33 a.m. CST
Fair enough Morty, i can dig that.
April 6, 2007, 5:40 a.m. CST
My favorite part in DEATH PROOF is the way Tarantino uses "Hold Tight" by Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich. It comes right before the most shocking moment in the film and it's amazing because the song is so infectious and poppy and the characters are so into it that it makes it that much worse when their complacency is suddenly shattered (literally) by Stuntman Mike's chariot or death.
April 6, 2007, 5:42 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... you probably did see me. I was there with the lovely Mrs. Moriarty, the esteemed Mr. Beaks, and a couple of good buddies. What a great crowd tonight.
April 6, 2007, 5:44 a.m. CST
Even though I'm a little sad that Kurt became a big fat pussy, just because he was so damn cool a villain, he did it to perfection. And damn! I can't believe I forgot about the Osama monologue already. I'm going to have to see this so many times in theaters it's obscene.
April 6, 2007, 5:47 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... "I put two in his heart and one in his computer. We weren't supposed to be there. He wasn't supposed to be there. I certainly wasn't supposed to punch his dialysis ticket." <P>Bliss.
April 6, 2007, 5:54 a.m. CST
I heard the line was already way long by 7:45, so I figured I'd just watch it somewhere else. I'm glad I saw it at the Graumann's, I'd never been, and it was actually nice to see Grindhouse in such elegance. The New Beverly would've probably been more appropriate though, it's such an awesome place. Also, Moriarty, are you going to go to the Hot Fuzz festival on Saturday if you're still here in LA? I wanted to get tickets badly, but the theater's website is horrible and by the time I figured it out all the tickets were sold out, but I'm still going to try to wait in stand-by.
April 6, 2007, 5:56 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I don't think I'm going. It's a family weekend, and Saturday, we'll be getting stuff ready for Easter morning with the baby. <P>Hope you get in on stand-by, though. It'll be a blast.
April 6, 2007, 6:03 a.m. CST
It's been a stunning series of movies lately and the season is only going to get better as summer gets closer it seems. Have a good weekend with the fam, man!
April 6, 2007, 6:06 a.m. CST
By the time my friend and I showed up at 8:00 P.M. the line was around the block. A guy who worked at the theater told us there were just over 200 seats and that we were like 300th in line. So we waited until the box office opened and then we bribed a dude at the front of the line so he'd buy us a couple tickets. I spent 20 bucks to get in but boy was it worth it.
April 6, 2007, 6:08 a.m. CST
And John Gulager and his father (from "Feast" and "Project Greenlight" fame) were sitting in the front row. It was kind of hilarious.
April 6, 2007, 6:35 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... they've been there, in those same seats, for pretty much every night of the Grindhouse Film Festival so far. The Gulagers are serious about their exploitation movies.
April 6, 2007, 6:53 a.m. CST
Your review was the final push I needed. I am bolting outa work two hours early and catching the first showing of this one in my town. Goddamn, I can't wait!! FYI, both soundtrack CDs are excellent, but Rodriguez' PLANET TERROR score jumped straight to the top shelf of my vast movie soundtrack collection; it's arguably the very best thing John Carpenter never produced, and it sits alongside his (and Alan Howarth's) best work as superb 70s/80s scorework. Tremendous!!! Mori, you continue to write superb reviews, and you keep me coming back to AICN week after week even when I've soured on the toxic TalkBacks and angry, negative vibes this place so often gives off. You keep it worthy. Waiting for you to burst the bonds here, sir, and take up the Siskel/Ebert mantle. Write a book! Get a TV show! (Or just get RACE WITH THE DEVIL out there, man -- talk about grindhouse potential!!) Keep up the great work, man.
April 6, 2007, 7:22 a.m. CST
And it has nothing to do with the film itself. I just hate it when something that I felt part of as an exclusive group, per se, now EW is giving an A and acting like they've seen any of these type of films before. Now and average retard can pretend that they've been "in" on this from the start and it almost loses it's appeal with the wide scope. I could be wrong, and many thanks to RR and QT for these films, but i just hate what happens to the things I hold dear
April 6, 2007, 8:12 a.m. CST
i think both of you are missing the point. Artmachine, QT was doing a loving (and awesome) homage to Samuri film (with western elements) and it was amazing. and Todd refer to my last post
April 6, 2007, 8:30 a.m. CST
Everyone is saying that this is the movie he should make, but yet again no one is really crazy about his movies in the first place. And now that Hostel is going to be a trilogy and he's in talks to do "Cell" who knows where he could go. I'm one of the people who enjoyed Cabin Fever, not a great movie, but had some cool shit in it. Hostel was better then everyone who just said "it was a porn movie, with 20 minutes of violence". It was more a look at the ignorance of American youth. And there were still parts I thought sucked about it. Think the whole torture movie thing has already passed. Eli seems to really love horror, and he def. has potential to make a really good one. But with 2 more hostel movies, i think his talent is going to be wasted on fitting a bill. How many times can we really sit through someone bound up and tortured for two hours?
April 6, 2007, 8:32 a.m. CST
It would never work as a full movie. It's great as a fake trailer. But would lose all fun in a film.
April 6, 2007, 8:32 a.m. CST
I am sort of detecting a gigantic amount of pro-QT bias on this site. I'm a fan of Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs...and I even liked Kill Bill alright, but I think his part of this was clearly inferior, and all the reviewers on this site are acting like it was the second coming. I dunno.
April 6, 2007, 8:39 a.m. CST
WHERE THE FUCK IS IT??????????
April 6, 2007, 8:53 a.m. CST
It's about time Trejo graduated from "that scary looking Mexican biker dude who's in all those movies" into an actual star.
April 6, 2007, 8:53 a.m. CST
by Osmosis Jones
Too bad. :o(
April 6, 2007, 8:57 a.m. CST
Danny is awesome. He kicks ass. But he is going to be in the latest "Larry the Cabledouche" movie. Sad days.
April 6, 2007, 9:15 a.m. CST
Did ya ever read David Cross's open letter to Larry the Cable Guy. Its some pretty funny shit and its on the Bob and David website somewhere; im too lazy to post a link but yeah i hate that tard. And hey, the MexiCAN gotta eat.
April 6, 2007, 9:18 a.m. CST
Kidding. Oh, and I've seen Mori's mini-van, and the fucker's got a flame job and twin overhead cams on it. Anyway, I've been sold on this movie since the jump, and tomorrow at 3:15 is when it's gonna go down. Wheeeeee!!!
April 6, 2007, 9:20 a.m. CST
yeah i read that, it was so freakin' funny. seriously every time i see him, i have unspeakable rage boil up within my soul
April 6, 2007, 9:29 a.m. CST
April 6, 2007, 9:33 a.m. CST
but Planet Terror - yes! Death Proof is good, but could have definitely used some trimming in several places. I love Tarantino's work (including Jackie Brown) but the editing in Death Proof should have been tighter. Other than that, I agree with Moriarty 100% about everything else, including his take on From Dusk Till Dawn.
April 6, 2007, 9:33 a.m. CST
Every time I read a talkback on this website I’m always amazed at how irrationally hateful all of you people are. It seems like everyone here just hates everything purely for hate’s sake. You find the smallest complaints and most minor details and that turns a great movie into “The most unwatchable (insert profanity here) I’ve ever seen.” All it takes is to see flame decals on Optimus Prime and suddenly Transformers is the worst movie off all time and everyone is constantly typing “Damn you Michael Bay” (that hasn’t gotten old at all by the way). But a movie comes out which, under any other circumstances would be one of the most pointless and stupid things ever, and you people foam at the mouth with excitement just because it’s an homage to a whole genre of pointless stupid movies. And before you start hurling insults at me and telling me I just don’t get the point of the movie, I do. I understand what the point of Grindhouse is and, though I’m not particularly excited about it, I do like the idea. But my point is if you strip away the fake ads, the fake scratches, and look at it without the rose-colored tint of nostalgia and homage, you’re left with a movie that features a woman with a gun for a leg and plots that don’t just have holes, they have entire pieces missing. But just because it’s supposed to be over the top and absurd it’s great, and yet flames on Optimus ruins an entire movie.
April 6, 2007, 9:36 a.m. CST
in Pulp Fiction, those guys were hitmen who didn't really give a fuck. They went through the shit together. They had a bond that didn't level that. They had heard it all before, and racism or using the "n" word didn't have effect on either of them
April 6, 2007, 9:39 a.m. CST
I mean robots that come to save the planet, is def. not over the top. Who cares what holes some of these movies have. It boils down to entertaiment. People like to complain. Don't get so bent out of shape about it
April 6, 2007, 9:46 a.m. CST
i just think the relationship between Jules and Vince was that of a brother-like status where they were equals
April 6, 2007, 9:49 a.m. CST
Giant robots couldn't possibly ever make for an entertaining movie. But like I said, I don't think Grindhouse looks bad, quite the opposite, and Transformers is only one of many examples of what I was talking about. I was just pointing out that it's surprising that the majority here doesn't hate Grindhouse.
April 6, 2007, 9:52 a.m. CST
this is a film that isn't supposed to be perfect. It harkens back to the stuff you loved about imperfect film. Just the style, the idea that people don't make movies for money, but for doing something they love even if it is badly. It's not about a Mcdonalds tie in. It's about recreating something that inspired you, or made you laugh, or got you excited about movies in the first place. Most movies out there are just made because the studio knows people will shell out the cash. Grindhouse isn't a sure thing. A lot of people won't get it. But they aren't making these movies for those people
April 6, 2007, 10 a.m. CST
and that shit was scary as hell. It takes a lot to disturb me and that movie def. hit the mark.
April 6, 2007, 10:01 a.m. CST
by Doomius 2.0
And HOT DAMN was it a ride! I curse you QT for the missing reel, and I praise you for one hell of a payoff! Most fun I have had in a theater in a very long time, can't wait to see the extended cuts of each!
April 6, 2007, 10:04 a.m. CST
You make a lot of great points. People do just love to hate, and I shouldn't expect anything less. And the fact that Grindhouse isn't a movie made for studios or guaranteed profits is a heartwarming idea, although like I said it's not the kind of movie I'm really interested in. And thank you for making that point in an intelligent and thought out manner rather than a string of mindless obscenities.
April 6, 2007, 10:06 a.m. CST
The thing is that no matter how perfect something is, there will always be someone there to pick it apart of hate it. That's also the reason racism will never end. Oh well.
April 6, 2007, 10:06 a.m. CST
Those are the best each director has done no doubt. Im looking forward to the special all night screening of Grindhouse at the drafthouse this saturday night. 4 oldschool movies plus Grindhouse should make a long interesting fun night. http://tinyurl.com/pv8do
April 6, 2007, 10:58 a.m. CST
i probably just have a negative bias from those Mexploitation VHS tapes we rented out at Hollywood Video and never got back on time. it doesn't look like Machete has time for lovin the ladies.
April 6, 2007, 11:01 a.m. CST
Now I missed the first 45 minutes unfortunately, but what I saw of Planet Terror is a blast. The mock op previews after Planet Terror were also a blast. The audience really had a good time with it. In my opinion this is where you should leave because Death Proof falls flat. You have nothing but 20-25 minutes of dialogue between these women and the guys trying to get them drunk and screw them. It's not overtly whitty, you could be a part of this same conversation at any bar you went to where guys are trying to pick up girls. They're wanting to get drunk and high and get their friend from out of town laid and it goes on for 25 minutes. You're praying that when Kurt Russel finally shows up that he'll just drive his car through the whole bar terminator style and murder everyone. Unfortunately he's played as the old guy at the club. Completely out of his element awkward and more than a bit nerdy. I will agree that the missing reel on the lapdance seen was one of the biggest blue ball things ever done, because it was the first time I felt excited about ANYTHING happening in Death Proof at all. Nope but he yanks that out from underneath you and you're lead up to the point where Russel kills the girls he's after which is the first entertaining thing that's happened in almost 30 minutes. It's sadistic and brutal and entertaining and your hoping that this movie had just hit it's pace. Nope. Cause After Russel kills the first four or five girls, the movie restarts with four new girls and we're right back into the same borring conversation all over again. My God it was fucking torture. This is not how you follow up Planet Terror and all the fun that the mock-up trailers were. But that's how he did it. About 25 minutes later Russel shows back up again and you're like "YES!PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY KILL THESE BORRING LADIES!" And what follows is the biggest cinematic flip-flop ever. Russel drives the girls off the road nearly killing them, steps out and makes a smug remark, and gets ready to leave when he gets shot in the arm by one of the girls. Well the bullet must have been filled with pussy juice because Russel is no longer the cold sadistic killer driving in the death proof car; he becomes a whining crying baby that runs away until the girls finally chase him down and beat the shit out of him. As soon as he hits the ground after a brutal face smashing the girls jump in the air Toyota-style and we get the words The End on the screen in halmark 70's fashion. So please spare yourself this torment and just leave after the final mock-up trailer. Unless you like to hear girls who say mutha fucka talk for better than 70% of the movie. If that's your thing...you'll be in heaven.
April 6, 2007, 11:49 a.m. CST
How can he one day, stand up during a critics filming of Clerks 2 because it was vulgar, and then praise Borat, which was much more vulgar? He's a fucking puppet.
April 6, 2007, 12:35 p.m. CST
Actually, wasn't it Joel Siegel who stood up during Clerks 2 and walked out, not Gene Shalit? Although both are huge tools. I understand why some people don't like Death Proof...there IS a lot of talking. However, if you check out Capone's review, he hits it right on the head--these movies DID have a lot of exposition back in the day because they could only afford one big payoff scene near the end (although Death Proof has a pretty cool payoff scene in the first 20 minutes too). I remember leaving Grindhouse Tuesday night thinking Planet Terror was great and that Death Proof was the lesser film...but honestly, it's Death Proof that's stuck with me this week and I absolutely MUST see this again, quickly.
April 6, 2007, 12:41 p.m. CST
fuck both of those guys
April 6, 2007, 12:56 p.m. CST
Seriously, I don't expect a Harry review on every movie that comes out...especially because he seems to find a way to love everything that comes out lately. . . But I've been dying to hear his thoughts on Grindhouse. Obviously, he loves QT and RR. And I'm sure he'll love the film. But I also want to hear what such a big (pardon the pun) film collector thinks of the little bumps and animated intros in the film. Whoever requested that Mori start his own site is right on. He's the best reviewer on the site...even if he is a notorious promise breaker (DVD blog? 90s list?)
April 6, 2007, 1:38 p.m. CST
Deathproof was 80 minutes of Qt sucking his own cock. planet Terror was pure uninhibited fun...exactly what it promised to be.
April 6, 2007, 1:39 p.m. CST
Really? Is that the most clever thing you can think of? "Moto, you need to get laid?" My wife of seven years takes care of me just fine. Even got a son out of it. But thanks for trying.
April 6, 2007, 1:42 p.m. CST
My bad, my friend. The old review I read was INTRODUCED by you in regards to the first person who had seen SOAP at the time. You didn't write the actual review. Apologies, but I still stand behind the comparison of the hype. Again, nothing wrong with having a great time with the flick.
April 6, 2007, 1:51 p.m. CST
will this movie suck. Will snakes discover the lost city of atlantis. What's up with Angela's hairdo. All these questions and more answered next week on...SOAP
April 6, 2007, 1:54 p.m. CST
LOL... I think the same thing everytime is see that
April 6, 2007, 1:56 p.m. CST
Your wife takes care of me and the rest of the people on my street just fine, too. By the way, how's my kid?
April 6, 2007, 1:57 p.m. CST
I need a drink
April 6, 2007, 1:58 p.m. CST
Them's fightin' words
April 6, 2007, 2:09 p.m. CST
here's some fightin' words for this site. Star Wars (all of them) and LOTR are the worst movies of all time, and anyone who even faintly likes them also likes to have sex with animals. The end.
April 6, 2007, 2:30 p.m. CST
I would have ended it with a dude walking up and going "What a wonderful dream" and an ending shot of frodo giving sam a pearl necklace
April 6, 2007, 2:31 p.m. CST
April 6, 2007, 2:37 p.m. CST
The Brown Bunny. Vincent Gallo is sad, drives around, kisses unknown girls, drives some more, rides his bike, drives some more, drives some more, gets a hotel room, meets Chloe Sevigny, she sucks his cock, he calls her a whore, she turns out to be his dead ex-girlfriend who got raped and choked on her own puke, vicent cries, drives some more. The end. It's not deep, it's not haunting, it's just fucking stupid
April 6, 2007, 2:54 p.m. CST
i tried really hard to like it because i love tarintino, but i was really really bored. which is amazing to be bored by tarintino, but i was. so sad
April 6, 2007, 2:57 p.m. CST
and get the fuck outta here. Fight the good Fight guys
April 6, 2007, 3:01 p.m. CST
Looking forward to seeing it more than ever.
April 6, 2007, 3:06 p.m. CST
I loved the concept but why go through all the trouble of scratchy film, etc if all the tech and cars are modern day. It pulled me out of the movie every time I saw the cell phones.
April 6, 2007, 3:42 p.m. CST
I just wanted to take up Moriarty on his following challenge: "Where I can point at a dozen movies as direct precedents for PLANET TERROR, I’ve never seen DEATH PROOF before, and I’d love to see someone point out a movie that they feel this is a rip-off of... cause I don’t think you can do it." Well, here you go: http://tinyurl.com/2x9csy From that site (suntimes.com), the quote reads: "If the foundation for "Planet Terror" is "Night of the Living Dead," the blueprint for "Death Proof" is "Vanishing Point."" I'll accept a nintendo Wii as reward :) Another cool quote just for fun: "Also at the bar: Rose McGowan, with two legs. She's not playing Cherry Darling here -- but we do catch brief glimpses of a few other characters from "Planet Terror" in Tarantino's movie, indicating that the stories take place in the same locale -- with "Death Proof" transpiring before the cataclysmic events of "Planet Terror."" Cuz thats the kind of details we geek out about. Cant wait to watch this flick!
April 6, 2007, 4:14 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... have you actually seen VANISHING POINT? Because it's pretty much nothing like DEATH PROOF. At all. Remotely. In DEATH PROOF, two of the characters are big fans of that film and want to drive a car that the main character drove. Otherwise... nope.
April 6, 2007, 4:58 p.m. CST
What the hell?! How did this happen? I thought part of the whole concept was the back-to-back double feature extravaganza. Why don't we get the chance to see the whole deal?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! What is this?!?! And why haven't i head a cry of horror from anyone else?!
April 6, 2007, 5:35 p.m. CST
by Buzz Maverik
My biggest fear about QT's portion of the film was that he was just going to make an exploitation movie, which would have been like doing straight pulp fiction stories in PULP FICTION, without the twists, the unexpected dialogue, etc. I'm not going to use the term "grindhouse" as a genre because I've seen about a billion exploitation movies in theaters that could be called grindhouses and I never once heard the term before this movie. It's a great title, but it ain't a genre. Tarantino made HIS version of an exploitation movie, just like he made his version of a heist flick, a revenge flick, a pulp crime story, etc.
April 6, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST
I worked all damn night last night, just got home from work today.I had planned to take it easy tonight, vegg out and catch it tommorrow after a light work morning. Now I'm all fucking excited after reading your kickass review, Mori.You bastard! Um, now if you'll excuse me, I have a movie to go try and see.Bitch! *shakes fist*
April 6, 2007, 5:47 p.m. CST
The trailer QT was going to do? It's not in it?
April 6, 2007, 5:50 p.m. CST
by Jack Gladney
Stuntman Mike's pathology" Did you fall asleep at the part where he's in the hospital in the other movie for five minutes? Although I guess it is pretty basic exposition. I'll agree that I enjoyed watching Planet Terror more, but I think I like Death Proof just as much.
April 6, 2007, 6:15 p.m. CST
i was expecting Tarantino homage masturbation, but it's not vanity at all. it works very well. fun, funny, and entertaining.
April 6, 2007, 6:28 p.m. CST
It's true! Went with a group of like ten people today, and they all said they were suprised that Death Proof was far superior flick than Planet Terror. I loved the action/gore/comedy of Planet Terror, but Death Proof really stood out as its own film, where I could see myself paying just to see that movie on its own, without another feature or faux trailers
April 6, 2007, 7:13 p.m. CST
by andrew coleman
I was just happy to pay money and have that much fun. I don't understand the hate towards this movie, guess people are trying to be edgy or cool but these flicks rock. I'd like to see it again with no crowd and see how I enjoy it because the crowd I saw it with was amazing. Go see this movie don't listen to the haters who will be seeing Wild Hogs instead go see Grindhouse!
April 6, 2007, 7:53 p.m. CST
by Napolean Solo
For the record, I love me some Moriarty!!!! But I don't know why you said "The 'N' word as you call it". ??? And context? What Tarantino is an O.G in his filmmaking but context is a thing that guy knows nothing of when using that word. NO ONE not even Sam Snakes Jackson can justify the use of it in Pulp Fik! Totally out of 'context' as you would call it. Also, how do you know she added it in herself? Was it because it wasn't in the script or was it a convo you had with QT that informed you? Take my questions as a rant and not a bash, because once again... 'I love me some Mori'... as I call it.
April 6, 2007, 8:02 p.m. CST
Great concept, sounds like they did a bang-up job and it would be a fun movie to watch. My problem? Rodriguez talking about how he tried to think of the most disturbing thing he could while writing, and it was losing his child. So he puts in the scene where his son picks up the gun and shoots himself. I understand it was off-camera etc. Look, obviously the movie is what it is - the gore, etc. But when Rodriguez sticks his own kid in there... I know people who have lost children, it's the most painful thing imaginable, and it's the kind of raw pain one can only know after experiencing it. He's a brilliant and inventive director but in my opinion to do what he did is sick. I honestly don't see how he can look at himself in the mirror. I would have been first in line to see this before, but after reading that, I'm going to skip this one. How does he top that on his next film when he tries to think of something even more disturbing? It was crossing the line to me when he talks about killing his own kid. This is the world we are now actively creating for future generations. George W. Bush is already screwing up things already enough for years to come, let's at least not sit in Ivory Towers and think none of this other stuff will affect anything. It does, and when you lose moral compasses to where you have to get more and more shocking to the point where haha let me kill my kid in the movie, it's NOT RIGHT. AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO TAKE A STAND.
April 6, 2007, 8:03 p.m. CST
And maybe some of the "How are we gonna get this guy to let us take a joyride in his car?" scene, too. Otherwise, GRINDHOUSE was a great time.
April 6, 2007, 8:05 p.m. CST
One thing people forget to mention about those 70's movies, Grindhouse was supposed to honor, was that they were horrible films which were painful to watch. On this level Grindhouse succeeds because it sucked bad. The only thing worth watching was those retro trailers. DeathProof couldve been better if there was more Kurt Russell and less talking from the women. Death Proof should be watched on dvd with the sound off whenever the women are on screen, because they are still great to look at.
April 6, 2007, 8:08 p.m. CST
Look, if people can sit through 3 hours+ of LOTR or Harry Potter, then we can sure as fuck handle Grindhouse!!! Ahhh, just realised. It's so we'll have to visit the cinema twice to see what should've been seen in one sitting. Fucking rip-off Britain at work again. Bastards!
April 6, 2007, 8:13 p.m. CST
Rose McGowan is most defintely not one of them. Unless you like super short women , with really white pasty skin, no tits or ass, and bad hair. She was the least attractive of the women in both movies.Robert Rodriguez dumped his wife for this troll. Bad choice RR.
April 6, 2007, 8:36 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I wasn't defending it (or condemning it) in PULP. I was talking about the use of it in DEATH PROOF. I said "the n word, as you call it," because I think that replacement phrase is sort of chickenshit and annoying, and part of the PC speech that makes modern discourse so bizarre. <P>All I can go by is the DEATH PROOF script, and although there are a few uses of it by Kim in the script, there are a ton more in the actual film. The car chase in particular. In the script, most of that dialogue is not written, and I think that's because Quentin wanted to work it out once he was actually staging the car chase.
April 6, 2007, 8:38 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... um... nope. <P>GRINDHOUSE is not a tribute to bad films. That's an elitist attitude. Exploitation films were frequently insane, and there are certainly many of them that are awful, but what the QT Fests have always been about, and what any exploitation fan will tell you, is that there are many gems among that trash, and those gems make everything else worthwhile. GRINDHOUSE is a tribute to the unique voices and the genuinely good films that exist on the fringe, and if you think all exploitation is trash, that's your baggage.
April 6, 2007, 8:57 p.m. CST
Are in that 30 minute Welcome to the Grindhouse special on the sci-fi channel and on the internet. I enjoyed both movies. Which is better? Who cares. Sometimes you gotta just shut off your critical faculties and, as William Hurt said in the Big Chill, "let the art flow over you."
April 6, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST
You could have cheated with Salma Hayek or Jessica Alba! WHY ROSE?!?!?!?!
April 6, 2007, 9:39 p.m. CST
reading some of these reviews, its like you were all expecting the Ben Hur of our generation or something...its frickin Grindhouse...its meant to be a collection of cheesy ass shit movies...HELLO!!
April 6, 2007, 9:52 p.m. CST
Whats it exploiting? It has one scene in the begining with Rose McGowan dancng, clothed, in a strip joint and thats supposed to be exploitive??? Its not exploiting women, who's it exploiting besides the audience who pays for this garbage. Its a bad horror movie that used lots of money to make it look bad and cheap. Machete would've been an exploitve movie. Those seventies exploitaion films that you consider gems usually have one cool scene or a cool look to it or even a cool premise (like Death Proof) but ultimately were bad movies that failed to deliver much like these 2 did.
April 6, 2007, 9:55 p.m. CST
Best cinematic experience in a while. Fuck this "Hostel" shit, Eli Roth needs to make "Thanksgiving."
April 6, 2007, 10:10 p.m. CST
That movie was badass!! I am soooo sick of everyone saying it was too "chatty" or "talky"! HELLO! have ya seen any of QT's other movies? this is too be expected!! Its called building supsense and characterization people!! Shit..people complain when characters in horror movies are 2 dimensional, so when someone tries to give them some depth, its considered too "talky". Basically, some of you are just way too damn hard to please. go make your own damn movies
April 6, 2007, 10:27 p.m. CST
If Grindhouse gets split up here, then I'm not going to see it. I'll catch the "restored" version on dvd. Yeah I know, the way to experience this film is with an audience, watching the scratches, cursing at the missing reels etc but taking out half the fucking movie and showing it a month later ruins the experience. <p> I dunno whose bright idea it was to split Grindhouse up into two seperate films instead of one "double feature" but come on, it's bullshit. In fact...if it comes down to a choice between watching Planet Terror and Death Proof seperately, and pirating and downloading the whole film from a torrent...I'm afraid to say I'd choose a download...after all watching a film in shitty quality without paying to see it..that's grindhouse. And I don't promote piracy, but I'm really tempted to make an exception in this case. <p> Mori, do you know anything about this? Is it just being split up in Germany or is it happening all over Europe? Somebody seriously needs to ask QT and RR why they're allowing the studio...or whoever to fuck up their intended vision to view these films.
April 6, 2007, 10:44 p.m. CST
and I would agree, as much as I liked Planet Terror, that Death Proof was the better film...BUT! More than a few questions remain with that one, among them being: 1) As another person on this board said, what DID in fact happen with the "cheerleader" left back at the shack? Given that her character had nothing to do with the climax of the film, I wonder why she was even in the story (except to look kinda cute). 2) Why did we not hear, just once, what Jungle Julia sounded like on the radio as a DJ? Woulda loved to seen more of that character; all we really knew about her is that she had dynamite legs and feet, and enjoyed hanging them out the car window as much as possible (great death for her, though!). 3) Now here's the big question, and it's fulla SPOILERS, so skip to the end, newbies!...Did anyone besides me feel that the scene where the three girls beat the shit out of Russell--as great a sequence as that was--was not as clear-cut a case of cathartic villain beatdown as it should have been? By that I mean: there are certain scenes in certain films where when the bad guy finally gets a good one right in the chops, the audience collectively screams YEAH!...and I wasn't feeling that, watching Stuntman Mike being bounced from girl to girl like a human pinball. And I SHOULD have felt it, right? I mean, the guy killed one gal in his car, and brutally rammed three others in a head-on collision--so why did I feel that his comeuppance was somehow excessive? I'm thinking it's either that a. I didn't like the girls enough, or b. I didn't hate Mike enough. Now, the two rather long scenes in which the girls chat in kind of diluted Quentinese are there, of course, to make us feel that we know these girls, and thereby identify with them. By contrast, we know almost nothing about Mike; he's just The Bad Guy (though Russell makes him somehow likable). The strategy is clear, but what happened for me was that I came to the conclusion that the girls were almost stupid enough to deserve what happened. Zoe Bell came off like a bubbly nutcase, Tracie Thoms' character was like a gangsta version of Florence the maid; and let's not forget Rosario's "adorable" Abernathy character, who despite the fact that she's a mother coems up with the brilliant idea of leaving the youngest and most vulnerable girl in their "posse" back at the cabin with a guy who, while not a clear-cut rapist stereotype, does everything but drool all over himself when he sees her...the purpose of this being that she is the "collateral" while the other girls take the car. How, I ask you, does this make them sypathetic characters? Why should we root for them over Mike? And I find myself wondering if this was QT's goal all along: to blur the line between hero and villain, good and bad guys; in other words, twist the whole idea of the pulp female revenge/empowerment movie so that there is no clear-cut person to root for at all. So the last question Death Proof leaves me with is this: was I SUPPOSED to hate Stuntman Mike, or not?!? And please: Make Machete, Thanksgiving and Don't as soon as possible!!!
April 6, 2007, 10:51 p.m. CST
Rosario Dawson did not like the idea that her character left the "cheerleader" behind, at all. Supposedly, she argued rather vehemently with Tarantino about it. Ultimately, it came down to "it's MY movie, so siddown and shaddap and follow the script"...but this indicates to me that more than one person found it a bit peculiar that a supposedly likable character who the audience is presumably supposed to root for would do such a callous, and simply stupid, thing.
April 6, 2007, 10:56 p.m. CST
For real, Zeke? Where'd you haer that? You have a link? I have a friend I'd love to see that
April 6, 2007, 11:03 p.m. CST
...it's in the hardcover book GRINDHOUSE: The Sleaze-Filled Saga of an Exploitation Double Feature. It may also have been in a recent Entertainment Weekly magazine covering the film, though I don't recall reading it there.
April 6, 2007, 11:32 p.m. CST
If QT were really trying to emulate those old grindhouse movies accurately all the chicks in DEATH PROOF would have been naked in at least one scene. Especially with all that female love going arouund.
April 6, 2007, 11:43 p.m. CST
In fact, DEATH PROOF was borderline boring at times. The final chase was great and will leave less discerning critics satisfied if not ready to praise it as a great reinvention of the grindhouse genre - which it isn't. It has a spectacular crash, a great chase, one amazing conversation - and about 30 minutes of Tarantino revisiting the Reservoir Dogs diner sequence in different situation and forms and less successfully than the first time around.
April 6, 2007, 11:43 p.m. CST
Planet Terror was brilliant. Rodriguez shows he's got real, consistent chops after Sin City and now this. Death Proof is a case of a film being brilliant in context. In the context of a grindhouse movie, QT's film is great. But imagine if it was just released on its own, without any of the trailers or hub-bub of it being a "tribute" to exploitation movies. It was just Tarantino's next movie. I think people would respond to it differently. Death Proof is essentially a shorter Kill Bill: a lot of bantering, dialogue and set pieces with a very thin story thread. I really would love it if he went back to more personal, intimate stuff like in Pulp Fiction and especially Jackie Brown. Jackie Brown had no elaborate action scenes or even much graphic violence. The settings were really only a couple of houses, a bar, Max Cherry's office and the Del Amo Fashion Center. But it was brilliant, humanistic and exciting all in the same movie. To me, Reservoir Dogs was solid but not great. Then, he really shined with some kind of amazing magic on Pulp and Jackie. The Kill Bill's and Death Proof are great little films unlike any in their genres, whatever those genre are. I've seen them all (except Death Proof) dozens of times, but only Pulp and Jackie hold up with that supreme level of awe that never gets old. But then again, many people hated Jackie Brown, so go figure. I've just written a short story, so I'll retire.
April 6, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST
Finally a movie that inspires me to want to make movies. Tarintino and me should have a talk, I got some crazy kickass ideas. I loved it all. I compare this movie to having 5 great kids and 1 annoying neighborhood kid that hangs around. (You all decide which is the annoying nieghborhood kid.) For me it was "Don't." The rest I loved. The thing I loved most about "Death Proof" was it oozed in Austiness. Loved the cameos from the TXRD and heck I even stayed after the credits to cheer on them being thanked. Even the locale of the Texas Chili Parlor was just killer. So seeing Punky Bruiser and a few other girls in "Death Proof" just widened my smile. I've never been to Austin either. I did watch "Rollergirls" on A & E so that was my the familiarity with them. "Planet Terror" was just pure fun. Loved the score even, Kudos Rodriguez. To them both, I know they occasionally check here. Tarintino and Rodriguez, thank you for such a kickass film and a beautiful film and inspiration.
April 6, 2007, 11:46 p.m. CST
Edgar Wright's DON'T was maybe my favorite. I just wish Zack Snyder would have directed a trailer.
April 6, 2007, 11:47 p.m. CST
I must be heard, dammit!
April 6, 2007, 11:55 p.m. CST
What a huge disappointment. Neither film was even remotely scary. Isn't that the point of making a horror film? Planet Terror played like a spoof of Zombie films, while Death Proof proves that Quentin Tarantino is a fraud. I can't think of a single "scary" moment between the two films. Several people at my theater walked out during Death Proof. The dialogue was terrible, and Zoe Bell needs to stick to doing stunts, because her acting was J-Loesque. What a huge disappointment.
April 7, 2007, 12:17 a.m. CST
I haven't read every review or talkback, but I was wondering if anyone has compared this to "Movie, Movie". I think the film came out in 1977 and featured two different film parodies plus fake trailers between movies. It does kind of seem like it was the inspiration for this film.
April 7, 2007, 12:18 a.m. CST
The crowd was rowdy and ready for some action. <BR> The quick and dirty. <BR> Planet Terror from start to finish was fucking awesome and delivered the goods. <BR> Deathproof bored the fuck out of me and was terrible except for the car chase in the end. <BR> I will do a more detailed review tomorrow but that's the extent of it. BTW Planet Terror played 1st at our theater. Really got everyone pumped. Theater fell alseep during Deathproof.
April 7, 2007, 12:22 a.m. CST
Death Proof is without a doubt Quentin Tarrantino's chattiest and dialouge filled film ever. Sweet baby jesus. The ending of that movie was not worth the agony that was the dialouge. It was like listening to the introductory dialouge for a very good chick flick, expanded, for thirty minutes. Then, instead of an actual movie, they do it again for another thirty minutes. Also, I know that it was supposed to be empowering to women and whatnot, but at least one of the second group of girls should've gotten killed, for the outright stupid shit that they pulled.
April 7, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST
(Spoilers?) The whole experience was great. "Planet Terror" was the standout and Freddy Rodriguez was cool as fuck balls. "Thanksgiving"...want to see that. "Death Proof" = 70% talk 30% Grindhousesque material. The whole sitting around the table at the diner, one take, really made me wish I was watching "Reservoir Dogs". The end of "Death Proof" has a very good payoff...but...Tarantino is best when he is doing a dialog driven film. But, what do I know? I'm as useless as a pecker on a pope. Grindhouse 2 = "Thanksgiving" + "Machete" = box office gold!
April 7, 2007, 12:26 a.m. CST
1) The ridiculuously FLAT references to Pulp Fiction (Big Kahuna Burger...Tasty Beverage). They are sooooo fucking obvious and right there and QT himself says the first one that its sort of amazing 2) Probably the best moment in the whole movie(s) experience... "I'm Okay!" Jeez, that was something beautiful. 3) The end credits song "Chick Habit - April March" just kills it, with the totally random weird Kodak girls. In terms of which movie's better, I'll just say that the applause after PLANET TERROR was tepid and that it took a couple people clapping to get most other people to do so in my theatre at least. But when DEATH PROOF finished, there was mad applause and the walk out of the theatre was filled with people talking excitedly and a genuine feeling of exhiliration, something I don't recall seeing in a long time. Congratulations gentlemen, you have yourselves a hit.
April 7, 2007, 12:38 a.m. CST
April 7, 2007, 12:42 a.m. CST
ok, seriously, if that movie had started AFTER the missing reel....that just would have made no sense....we would have missed stuntman mike talking to ALL of those characters he first goes after, making the following scene extremely pointless.
April 7, 2007, 12:43 a.m. CST
April 7, 2007, 12:49 a.m. CST
The dialogue in Death Proof was so tired. And it seems like he only knows how to write one black character: Samuel L. Jackson. That black chick in Death Proof spoke like she was Jules Winfield's sister. I still can't get over how bad Death Proof was. Tarantino's getting to the point where nobody's got the balls to tell him to rewrite his shitty dialogue, in this movie. Death Proof was a great idea, poorly executed. And to top it all off, most of the chicks were ugly!!
April 7, 2007, 12:54 a.m. CST
"And to top it all off, most of the chicks were ugly!!" you seriously need your fucking head examined
April 7, 2007, 1:01 a.m. CST
I'll shorten it somewhat. If we're supposed to root against Stuntman Mike, why are we left with the nagging feeling that the second group of girls are stupid enough in their actions to almost deserve what happens (and doesn't happen) to them? Why does their beatdown of Mike at the climax not have the satisfactory, cathartic feeling a viewer gets when the bad guy finally gets his comeuppance from the good guys? Are the girls really, in fact, the good guys? Are we supposed to hate Stuntman Mike...or in some twisted way, empathize with him? Discuss. And btw, I'd suck Jungle Julia's toenail polish right off, assuming QT didn't beat me to it!
April 7, 2007, 1:26 a.m. CST
I hated hated hated that girl. The character at least. I'm not really for sure that Poitier meant to make her that annoying, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, Death Proof was lean on everything. Variety most of all. Planet Terror also was a bit too long, but at least didn't bore us for ten minute monologues at a time. And the Don't Trailer was... Off. Just not funny. Still, the whole thing has a ring to it that is unlike any cinema experience around.
April 7, 2007, 1:30 a.m. CST
I personay preferred Death Prood. Planet Terror was by no means bad, but did seem kind of long. I was surprised, but pleased, by how much Death Proof turned into a Russ Meyers fim by the end.
April 7, 2007, 1:48 a.m. CST
Apologies all around.
April 7, 2007, 1:51 a.m. CST
I didn't find the black chicks attractive, Vanessa Ferlito has a weird face, and Zoe Bell is just plain ugly. The cheerleader looked ok, and Jordan Ladd and that's it. Rosario Dawson may have a nice rack, but she's fugly.
April 7, 2007, 2:29 a.m. CST
But dragged on towards the end. It also started to become pretty stupid. I really liked Death Proof though - the ending was hilarious.
April 7, 2007, 3:28 a.m. CST
It's nice to hear someone talk about a movie as a person and not as an elitist bastard. I find myself agreeing with you 95% of the time so, I'm sure I'll enjoy this. That and I'm a huge Rodriguez fan.
April 7, 2007, 3:31 a.m. CST
I personally thought Death Proof was absolutely fantastic. The dialogue between the first group of girls does ring flat at times, but I'm pretty sure that's the point. They're posers that get their asses butchered. When the second, bad-ass group shows up, the dialogue is pure gold. I think the movie will play better on a second viewing. Too bad I have to sit through Planet Terror again. It was okay but very one-note.
April 7, 2007, 4:08 a.m. CST
Though a success, won't come even close to those numbers. This is a lot like setting out to make the world's greatest blintz. Most people don't know what it is, don't care. The rest are blintz makers and blintz afficianados. 'Butt monkeys' all. ("I like it, BUT....") The first was a non-stop gore fest with little else to recommend it, other than McGowan with a machine gun. A little too stomach wrenching to be a parody. Believe it or not, most towns don't have a Grindhouse theater. Nor do all that many people have a great time watching serial B movie blood fests. With some humor and mass appeal, this is still a feature, or two, aimed primarily at a pretty narrow audience. The faux trailers were excellent. The QT finale stood up a little better, but was 10-15 minutes into yawn territory. Took too long for Rosario to get onscreen. That is some charismatic actress, even IF she swings the other way. Could have done w/o all the trash talking from Curley Sue driving. Got stupid after a few minutes. The car chase was not bad, but hardly spectacular. A lot of repetition and not the greatest use of surrounding vehicles. Plus, Zoe had ample opportunities to get back in the car. Was QT going for high production values? No. But let's not pretend this was BULLIT, THE ROCK, or even the T3 of chases. Of course it went too far flipping protagonist/antagonist at the end which was likely intended. But added to the overall 'feel bad' experience the whole provided. No applause or cheers at the half filled 7:30 premiere here. I think the audience did like seeing Michael Parks and Son #1 again. As well as many of the other in-jokes. But this was more along the lines of a vanity piece that hopefully got this out of their systems, so these 2 great fimmakers can go back to making good films instead of deliberately bad ones. And frankly, I'm about all 'zombied out', which could be a good replacement for the shark cliche.
April 7, 2007, 4:31 a.m. CST
April 7, 2007, 5:25 a.m. CST
Planet Terror was awesome. "Don't" and "Thanksgiving" were awesome. "Werewolf Women of the SS" was pointless. (Unless you're Rob Zombie. Then you were able to show your name on screen longer than any of the other trailer directors.) But, Death Proof... I went into Grindhouse fully expecting to prefer Death Proof over Planet Terror. But I was constantly checking my watch during all the horrible looooooong talks between all the obnoxious girls. I guess Quentin made his movie authentic in that, like a b-movie from the '70s, it was all over the place, was boring as hell, and had no point. All Death Proof needed were the Mystery Science Theater guys sitting front row to extract any sort of entertainment there may be out of it.
April 7, 2007, 5:28 a.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
Caught a midnight show. It's around 6:30am now and I can't sleep. Wow. That movie rocked me baby! It met all expectations. I'm too tired to write in any depth other than to say that I loved it loved it loved it! Wow.
April 7, 2007, 5:30 a.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
they do more "Grindhouse" double feature movies. I'd love to see a full length of Hobo With a Shotgun (hehe), Machete (which I see is in the works), and Thanksgiving!
April 7, 2007, 8:29 a.m. CST
spelled the end of Bob and Harvey. If QT had a backbone, then he would have a stood up to bob and harvey and said this is film and i want it released as a whole film. But he didnt. His career has never really recovered from the Kill Bill debacle. Which were released as two seperate films. I have seen both movies. I saw kill bill on DVD and Kill bill 2 in the cinema. Kill bill vol 2 was disappointing and anticlimatic. Uma spent the first movie cutting her way through her list. I liked the stuff in the kitchen and I thought the film looked great in places. But the movie was devoid of Qt's trademark dialoug(which i gather was intentional, ie he hated people qouting dogs, fiction and jackie brown to him in the street). Grind house sounds liked a mixed bag, again and as fan of thier earlier works. I am getting tired of this kind of kind of thing. How about making your own movies QT and RR and not each others.
April 7, 2007, 8:32 a.m. CST
No he didnt, he just got sick of people quoting his movies at him. IF i made a movie or movies that had memorable lines in it and people qouted them at me, i would take it as complement. He doesnt
April 7, 2007, 8:34 a.m. CST
by justin s
cause every review I read went on about Death Proof like it's the best thing since bread. If I wanted to watch girls talk for an hour I could have just gone to the mall. and stuntman mike was a bad guy for about 10 minutes of the movie, the rest of the time he was a fuckin pussy. oh boy, tarantino made it all Grindhouse by adding a missing reel and some quick-cut scenes every so often, congratufuckinlations. at least Rodriquez "got it" and made an entertaining flick that didn't make me want to stand up and take that piss I'd been dying to let out to bypass all the boring parts.
April 7, 2007, 8:34 a.m. CST
Marks the return of this great filmmaker, but at this stage. I am not so sure.
April 7, 2007, 9:01 a.m. CST
"When the second, bad-ass group shows up, the dialogue is pure gold." What dialogue? The black girl driving the car saying the F word 500 times is not great dialogue. And it was hilarious watching even the comic store geek-types that comprised a great deal of the audience get bored and restless during Death Proof when they had spent all of their time during Planet Terror either laughing or cheering just to show how much they "got" Grindhouse.
April 7, 2007, 9:22 a.m. CST
by eric haislar
I can see why some people would not like it. I will admit it took sometime to get going put once it did it was balls to the walls.
April 7, 2007, 10:01 a.m. CST
Early box office returns show Grindhouse will only end up about number 4 for the weekend with about 13-14 million.
April 7, 2007, 10:19 a.m. CST
you might be the best writer on this site, the one with the best taste- i know cause it matches me own, you might even be the one who understands the best what you're writing about...but you'll always be trying to catch up to sherlock holmes.
April 7, 2007, 10:32 a.m. CST
I'm there already.
April 7, 2007, 10:52 a.m. CST
I'm broke until next week! probably cause I'm on dis here computer writing about how desprately I wanna go see this movie. I'm going to my ass to work.
April 7, 2007, 11 a.m. CST
....was not only completely unexpected, but absolutely fucking hilarious. I shot my arms up in the air, as well! Well played, QT. Well played. Don't listen to the rest of the faggoty fanboy film student types in this talkbalk. If they stared into the eyes of God himself, they'd be underwhelmed and then bitch about it on the internet.
April 7, 2007, 11:07 a.m. CST
by stuntman mikey
Keep an eye out during your second GH go-around for the jungle julia shout out playing on the radio of El Wray's Truck. Nice. By the way, which costume do you think will be more popular this halloween - Stuntman Mike or Cherry Darling? Getting my crocodile tears ready to cry on command for my outing as SM. Cheers and god bless GH.
April 7, 2007, 11:12 a.m. CST
I caught the first afternoon screening of Grindhouse opening day. After QT's homage paid to Vanishing Point, I rented it at the video store across the street from the theatre. I bet if I waited to see Grindhouse a few days later, it wouldn't have been there. The Dodge Challenger is the star of the film and is given practically every minute on screen. Vanishing Point could definitely be included in a box set with Grindhouse.
April 7, 2007, 11:17 a.m. CST
by stuntman mikey
were based on 11am -4pm showings on the east coast on good friday....i'm not shocked that Meet The Robinsons, Blades of GLory and Ice Cube played better that time of day....what i want to see are the #'s that include the friday night showings, because i guarantee you at midnite, the auditoriums for Meet the Robinsons werent quite as filled as GH...
April 7, 2007, 11:43 a.m. CST
....I was in a theater without about 200-300 other people who basically did the same thing? And who in the fuck actually criticizes the acting chops of a professional stuntwoman? Jesus H. Keeerist, some of you people are picky, details-oriented, perfectionist motherfuckers. She's a stuntwoman, stupid! You didn't honestly expect her to win an Oscar after turning in a Kate Hepburn-esque performance, did you? Sheesh.
April 7, 2007, 11:45 a.m. CST
Because this was the best time in a movie theater I've had in literally years. The bottle of whiskey I snuck into the theater might have had something to do with it, but it's all int eh spirit of the thing. The sheer amount of classic B-movie lines that were sometimes just slipped in was brilliant. And how can you argue with Nicholas Cage in Fu-Manchu outfit yelling "THIS IS MY MECCA!" With that line I forgot about all the super serious action films he's made over the years and was reminded that he is a great actor with a sense of humor. But yeah Death Proof certainly had some fundamental flaws. Mainly not enough Kurt Russell and that diner scene. It's like Tarentino wanted to remake the opening of Resevior Dogs with chicks. But as much as I love Roasario Dawson and Zoe Bell they are no Steve Buscemi and Harvey Keitel.Also for me the dialogue itself fell largely flat. The story about the ditch? Wtf? I know that story was supposed to show how they are two daredevils and Dawson is naught but a wee commoner but Im pretty sure that could have been handled in like two lines. Mori is dead on about Russell though. I don;t know if it was the writing or the actor that dictated that Stuntman Mike turn into a big pussy when the going gets tough but it's brilliant. It takes Russells sort of cult hero badass image and turns it on its ear.Rourke, as much as I love him, couldn't have pulled that off with the same pinache. Unfortunately Tarantino doesn't give him enough to do before the inevitable showdown. For a slasher film it has far too little flashing. Especially considering that with Russell's stuntman Mike he could have had one of the great film psychos on his hands. Still alot of fun though.
April 7, 2007, 11:49 a.m. CST
Grindhouse as one big experience was amusing enough, although I won't see it again like I had planned or ever sit through it on DVD. It's almost impossible to imagine Death Proof being relased on its own. The dialogue was so boring and self-indulgent, the girls were as hot as Fugly Betty (the two ass shots: I defy anyone to say either of those asses are distinguishable from QT's very own) and the chase scene was just plain stupid. Viewed by itself, Death Proof is as watchable as QT's segment in Four Rooms.
April 7, 2007, 11:58 a.m. CST
by Black Satin 2
Did you notice near the end of Cherry's dance, she started crying because she felt her dream of being a comedian was over. That starts her arc off. As for Jungle Julia, she never heard from her boyfriend and didn't you notice that Tracie Thom's character was talking about how her boyfriend fooled around with someone else. I wonder if he was connected to both? Yeah, she even got a shout out on El Wray's radio, further connecting the two movies.
April 7, 2007, 12:04 p.m. CST
Because god damn I have missed that guy and it warmed my heart to see him get so much screen time. When I was a kid he was a hero to me between playing Kyle Reese and Dwayne Hicks. Also he's just a good actor. You try delivering the line "Give him a gun. Give him ALL the guns!" and have it sound that natural. Also as far as I'm concerned his "Son of a BITCH!" in the Thanksgiving trailer is the line of the film if for no other reason than no B-movie is complete without it. Ditto goes for Jeff Fahey.
April 7, 2007, 12:09 p.m. CST
were essentially Rose McGowan trying to fuck Rodriguez through the camera leading to some of the hottest footage I've seen on screen ever. If I were him, I would have done her too.
April 7, 2007, 12:32 p.m. CST
by THE KNIGHT
I can't believe this won't be number 1 at the box office....
April 7, 2007, 12:36 p.m. CST
Death Proof without a doubt. How could you say that Planet Terror is better? Yeah, it's bloodier and over the top but it's a fucking cheesy horror movie. Death Proof was so suspenseful. especially during the 2nd half of it. i was like holy shit wtf is going to happen. and at the end you are laughing and clapping.
April 7, 2007, 12:37 p.m. CST
At first I didn't think anything of her, but as the movie progressed, I found myself staring at her more than any of the others. She was just awesome, and did a great job acting. She was tough and cute at the same time. I hope she gets more acting work.
April 7, 2007, 12:56 p.m. CST
I saw GH last night and boy, half the audience in the half-full theatre walked out before Death Proof. And you have to believe that most of those people are familar and like QT & RR. I wonder if QT will remain with the Weinsteins after this? Someone will take the blame for sure. I personally thought Death Proof was QT's worst film - actually, his only bad one. It lacked new dialogue that pops and the 2nd batch of girls with Dawson and Bell were too boring to listen to. This will go down as a huge self-satisfying picture for these directors. Word of mouth will kill this thing for good next wke. If you're not disappointed with GH I think you're buying into the hype. Really wanted it to come together but THANKSGIVING was the only thing that lived up to all the promises of skewing these films and improving upon them to THE FULLEST.
April 7, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST
I love QT. I do not like Eli Roth. This is the first QT movie where he referenced his own DIALOGUE from other movies. The "that's a tasty beverage" reference is HORRIBLE. He's paying homage to himself. I'll all down for Big Kahuna Burger and Red Apple, but c'mon. Nothing happens in Death Proof. The dialogue b/t the new batch of girls is bullshit. It's not funny, entertaining or there for exposition. It's there to irritate like Gallo did with Brown Bunny. Another thing: paying HOMAGE to GH movies that stuck their best parts at the end for $reasons is a stupid defense of Death Proof. The whole time QT has been saying "The point of this was to take the premise of this genre and ACTUALLY DELIVER on it." That DOES NOT happen here. It's the same shit. Filler dialogue with two cool scenes. ;( Another BIG POINT that I've heard audience members discussing after the fact is that aren't all of RR's R-rated movies practically GrindHouse? Look at Desperado and From Dusk Til Dawn. They are superior but just as cheesy and overblown as Plant Terror minus the scratches, et al. That's why most people aren't oozing to go see this. It's already been seen. The other thing is all of these TBs dissing the "loud minority." Hey guys, there are a ton of people who like QT. Kill Bill 1$2 made $25 mil their first wkes. This made half that. Think about it. People I saw it with were very disappointed in both movies. Something is obviously not right with GH. That thing is that it's a HUGE LETDOWN to most people who see it. This is a loud MAJORITY of people. Thanks.
April 7, 2007, 1:35 p.m. CST
Best line in the entire movie was during the Machete trailer, "The fucked with the wrong Mexican!"
April 7, 2007, 1:46 p.m. CST
So, hopefully by now everyone's seen Grindhouse and had a great time. I know I did! Unfortunately, the good people at Libertas, a "Forum for Conservative Thought on Film," disagree.<p> Here's their website address: http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/ <p> Just copy and paste it into your browser and it will take you there straight away! <p> While I felt the reviewer was msguided in his opinion of the film, what will REALLY to get you riled up are the "user comments" that are already starting to pop up. One guy doesn't even like the fact the site REVIEWED Grindhouse, calling it "warped crap". These people are the enemy, folks! <p> So lets show them who's boss. It only takes a few minutes to register, and you can show these political wonks whats up when you mess with quality filmmaking. I'd comment myself, but unfortunatley the site has some kind of glitch thats only letting me post 3 comments every few days...and those comments were used up earlier today on another article. But that won't affect you. <p> So if you've seen and loved Grindhouse, what are you waiting for? Get over there and defend this movie...teach these jackasses what happens when you mess with exploitation movies!!
April 7, 2007, 1:59 p.m. CST
Seriously, its his second best feature behind Sin City. Letdown? Hardly. It was pure fun from start to finish, and if people left BEFORE Death Proof even started those people simply didn't get the premise and had no idea what they were about to see. <p> As for the Tarantino film, its understandable that opinions are divided. I admit that it is very dialogue-heavy, but I actually liked much of the dialogue, even as I found myself wishing there had been one (just one!) more group of girls killed before the grand finale. It would definitely have livened the film up a bit more...I have a feeling QT had to rush this one, but it was still very good...and I felt the dialogue was (the ending with Bill aside) the best dialogue he's written since Pulp Fiction. <p> Oh, and to the talkbacker who said this was the first time Tarantino homaged dialogue from his earlier films...what about the "that'd be about square" line from Kill Bill and the "this some repugnant shit" line from Jackie Brown. Like it or not (and personally, I don't), QT has recycled lines before.<p> I don't know why some people on here seem to be almost giddy about the prospect of this film failing. Trust me, you do not want this movie to fail if you love exploitation cinema. They're planning to release all sorts of vintage films (like Rolling Thunder, a film I've been dying to see since forever) as part of the "Grindhouse" label they want to start...not to mention sequels by other directors. That will all be cancelled if this film isn't a hit...so check this movie out and let the naysayers be damned. The 3 hours fly by and I already want to see it again. Grindhouse rocks!
April 7, 2007, 2:19 p.m. CST
You're an idiot. Take your hype-hat off. Death Proof isn't worth defending.
April 7, 2007, 2:58 p.m. CST
I didn't want this film to fail b/c these are two of my favorite directors. The fact is IT ALREADY FAILED from a financial perspective for all involved. That means there will NOT BE A SEQUEL. Hostel 2 is going to do near double GH's 10-15M and GH's 30M TOTAL. What does that say when Eli Roth's film makes double a film the combines two films by QT&RR? Death Proof feels like a rushed job, I agree with JLW and 900rpm there. How anyone can say they didn't expect more entertainment (and no, I don't mean explosions), I don't understand. I'm betting QT leaves the Weinsteins for another studio after this. There's no way they can offer up the budget for Inglorious Bastards.
April 7, 2007, 3:05 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... how much I love the huge variety in reactions to this? It's fun watching people digest these movies and fascinating to see why they accept or reject what they do.
April 7, 2007, 3:21 p.m. CST
by THE KNIGHT
I kinda went into it expecting Rodriguez to be Rodriguez and Tarantino to be Tarantino..... <p> the dialogue stuff was definitely to be expected... my only problem with it Death Proof was that... <p> I wanted to see more Kurt Russell... The man hasn't lost a single step...
April 7, 2007, 3:30 p.m. CST
Didn't think Planet Terror could be topped, but Death Proof, despite its deliberately slow pacing, blew it away. Of course it needed the slow pacing to 1. make the first crash pay off (the best crash committed to film ever?) and 2. make the 2nd half of the movie pay off. The chase wouldn't have worked in any other structure. The talkbackers complaining they were bored by the dialogue should stick to Joel Schumacher or go back to their Xboxes if they're so easily distracted/have such pathetically short attention spans. "Death Proof" might be QT's best work. (Saw it in Times Square at midnight in a semi-packed but RAUCOUS house that definitely enhanced it, although there were plenty of dim-witted people complaining about the slow pacing of Death Proof as well. Not everyone can love cinema, I guess.)
April 7, 2007, 4 p.m. CST
There were only two details for me that could have made it even better.<p>One is that QT really should quit acting in movies. Have no problem with a cameo. Two (from THE KNIGHT) is that I wish that there would have been more Kurt Russell. Great part for a great actor.<p>Other than those minor things I had a heck of a time. Went late knowing I had to get up early for work. When a movie is that good it was well worth being tired.
April 7, 2007, 4:07 p.m. CST
by Quake II
But Death Proof was the superior film overall. I actually cared about the characters and had some fun as well. Planet Terror was just good, dumb fun as expected, but it was a little too much of a self parady for my tastes. As far as the trailers go, Thanksgiving and Don't could not really be made into entertaining features. They're a series of jokes and they did get the biggest laughs but expanded to 90 minutes? Werewolf Women Of The SS and Machete could easily be expanded into features for Grindhouse II. Werewolf Women easily had the most "epic" look of the 4 trailers but it all went by SO fast.
April 7, 2007, 4:33 p.m. CST
not because it was a good movie, and certainly not because the makers intended it to be so unwatchably bad and unintentionally hilarious (hence unintentional). but that is exactly why it is the real grindhouse movie. in fact if you had never heard of the film and they slipped the trailer between DON'T and THANKSGIVING, it would have worked perfectly.
April 7, 2007, 5:03 p.m. CST
ZombieSolutions: Cold hard cash for to buyTONS of weed with..You know you'll need it for the writing phase on Inglorious Bastards, okay, well, that and whiskey and speed... If weed, whiskey and speed are responsible for Death Proof's dialogue then I suggest QT stick to skim milk.
April 7, 2007, 5:07 p.m. CST
I could be wrong but weren't exploitation films wall to wall with tits and hot babes? Where's the love?
April 7, 2007, 5:18 p.m. CST
by Boondock Devil
That was the moment I fell in love with Zoe. Her character nearly gets killed in some mucho horrible way and she decides to hop up out of some bushes like some kid who just happened to fall off her bike. Loved it.
April 7, 2007, 6:22 p.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
AMC Empire 25? Midnight show? I was at the same show! Definitely not a full crowd but a LIVE crowd if you know what I mean. There was energy. I think everyone loved the mess out of the flick. For me the 3 hours passed like nothing. My friend and I felt that the crowd would have had no problem staying there another hour. The movie rocked that hard!
April 7, 2007, 6:38 p.m. CST
by THE KNIGHT
I was at AMC 25 also! 10:30 show... they didn't play the movie till 11... aint that some shit...
April 7, 2007, 6:58 p.m. CST
I loves me a good car chase and DP was fucking insane. Brillianty staged and shot, escially compared to something like The Rock Iwhich I was watching some of The Rock on TV the other day and what I THOUGHT was a good car chase at once. But that was shit. We'd only see shots of the cars when they were crashing into something and Bay's disco-ball lighing, zoom-frenzied interiors of the actors driving only further highlight that they're on a soundstage. I guess what I'm trying to say is...thank you Quentin Taratino...and damn you Michael Bay.
April 7, 2007, 6:59 p.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
That's crazy! Was your show packed? My show started on time at midnight but if it makes you feel better, my seat was broken and it had a stain on it that I only realized once I got up and my jeans were all messed up! In short, I got the "full" grindhouse experience!
April 7, 2007, 7:08 p.m. CST
My implication was that if DP "bored" you you don't love cinema. Same goes if you don't like Last Year at Marienbad. You may think the dialogue was bad or disliked the missing reels gimmick (that's fair) but then why are you going to see "Grindhouse" in the first place? Attack it on its merits is one thing, but calling it "boring" is about your own deficit of attention, not the film itself.
April 7, 2007, 7:44 p.m. CST
by THE KNIGHT
It was definitely a sold out crowd... They ate up PT, but a few began to walk out during DP... Mostly everyone stayed and there was a huge applause at the end or whenever Tarantino appeared on screen.. <p> Wow, I'm pissed for you! I guess the people that clean the theatre don't care too much huh... <p> Full Grindhouse experience indeed!
April 7, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST
And it's a fucking shame that guy has not been able to have the type of career he deserves. He was fantastic in Terminator and even better in Aliens. I can't figure it out why that guy does not have a better movie career. <BR> <BR> Anyone want to take a stab that? I am real curious if there is someting about Michael Biehn that I don't know that would explain that. Always been a fan.
April 7, 2007, 8:35 p.m. CST
After sleeping on it and waking up and seeing what everyone else had to say I pretty much had it nailed with my few but to the point lines because it seems most, not all but most are in agreement with each other that Planet Terror was the shit and Deathpoop was shit except for the car chase at the end, AND the 1st death scene where the 4 girls die. Other then that Deathpoop really drags down the movie and I hope they release them as two instead of one for the DVD release. No interest in owning Deathpoop.
April 7, 2007, 9:05 p.m. CST
by Jon E Cin
Everyone I saw this movie with had an amazing time...I go on this site and all hear are a bunch of whiny geeks complaining! It pisses me off! Would you rather see true shit like Wild Hogs or Ghost Rider??? Obviously you are the ones paying to see those over and over again...i dont understand.
April 7, 2007, 9:05 p.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
Thanks for the support, lol! My audience reaction was identical to yours in every way. It's good to see fellow AICN geeks holding it down in NYC. THE KNIGHT... lensproject... my boy Gandalf The Black... who knows maybe someday we'll get it crackin' up here like they have it going on down there in Austin! Peace.
April 7, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST
by Darth Mulder
...that while Planet Terror looked scratched up Death Proof looked almost like a brand new print?I thought both films were pretty good but Planet Terror was definitely the better of the two films.
April 7, 2007, 9:32 p.m. CST
Wild ride. Loved all of it. Sat right in the middle, screen as big as life. It will be remembered as one of the best theatre experiences ever.
April 7, 2007, 9:39 p.m. CST
by THE KNIGHT
Yea man... NYC AICN'ers need to start showing their faces some more... <p> I'll die and go to heaven if we have events up here like in Austin... Come on Harry, help us out! :)
April 7, 2007, 10:14 p.m. CST
PT was awesome and the trailers and intermission were perfect. Then QT's movie starts and drones on and on and you could feel the energy drain from the theatre. Everyone wanted to like it and for 5 minutes at the end of the first half it was great. Then it got real quiet until the car chase and end. A total disappointment compared to the first feature. I'm not sure if they compared notes during production but Rodriguez definitely approached it with the right spirit, and I have no idea what QT was trying to accomplish. The imbalance of energy was a real disappointment. His movie was two movies, each split in half between pointless dialogue among a group of half-wits, punctuated by car action. Booooooooring.
April 7, 2007, 10:15 p.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
You're down with us baby! Truth be told, I'm a New Jerseyan. It's tri-state area geek love baby. It's all good! Respect.
April 7, 2007, 10:21 p.m. CST
After skimming through some of the trash talk about QT's Death-Proof, I just have to say that it seems like no one gets DP's story structure. Whether you like the film or not, at least understand how QT has laid out his movie. So many comments are bitching about how the movie turns Stuntman Mike into a pussy. And that's NOT what's happening. Death-Proof is an origin story. This isn't about a serial killer getting his comeuppance at all. The first half of the film is Stuntman Mike in action. We see him as a cold, calculating killer. The second half of the film is his backstory. This isn't taking place after the first half, this is his origin. When he's stalking Zoe Bell and her crew, he's just fucking around. It's the humilating ass-whipping they give him that makes him into a psycho. The last shot of movie of Rosario Dawson dropping her boot on Stuntman Mike's face is the blow that gives him the scar we see in the first half of the movie. He isn't killed at the end of the movie, this is the incident that sets his pathology into gear, so to speak. QT doesn't make this manipulation of time obvious, but that's what's going on. So...maybe this will help some viewers re-evaluate their take on Death-Proof. Either way, at least you'll have a better idea of what QT was up to. Personally I think it's an ingenious piece of work.
April 7, 2007, 10:29 p.m. CST
EVERYONE i have talked to in person this weekend preferred death proof. It was just a better made movie.....maybe not as gory or silly as Planet Terror, but overall just a kick ass flick.
April 7, 2007, 10:31 p.m. CST
by justin s
holy hell suttercane COMPLETELY made that movie more complicated than it ever was and is WAY off on his analysis. nice work make, it really takes some balls to claim everyone on this board and every reviewer is wrong
April 7, 2007, 10:31 p.m. CST
but it still doesn't mitigate the fact that nobody gives a crap about Zoe Bell falling in a ditch!
April 7, 2007, 10:38 p.m. CST
I could be wrong but my friends and I were sure Rosario's heel connected with SMM's throat. It was a death blow. You're reading shit into DP that's just not there. And even if the structure is as you speculate, so what, DP is still boring.
April 7, 2007, 10:42 p.m. CST
by stuntman mikey
another ny'er in the house...i saw GH at an early screening at the AMC 25 this past wedesday and the crowd ate it up and man at the end of death proof, walking out of that theater was such a high...to me that was the best damn ending of a movie in years, and needless to say i ran out and bought the soundtrack asap. Man i am depressed this movie did not do better...looks like we'll never get a full length Machete or Thanksgiving :(. Its a damn shame.
April 7, 2007, 10:50 p.m. CST
The responses to Death Proof that is. You have the misogynists with their "Why did Stuntman Mike have to die, I wanted him to kill those bitches. He pussied out, I like Psycopaths. Eli Roth would have let Mike catch them, f**k them and eat them. I hate empowered women, especially when they're talking. Damn. Jackie Brown sucked too." Yeah the joke was ON you and QT knew it all too well. YOU are Stuntman Mike, YOU hate those talky bitches and would love to run them off the road. Now that the light of day is shined on you go crawl back into your cave.
April 7, 2007, 10:54 p.m. CST
I honestly did not even think of that, and I'm usually pretty attentive. So I guess Mike didn't have the scar on his face before he got the "boot" from Rosario then? I'm not sure if that would make me automatically double or triple my love for the film, but it's neat touch nonetheless. Thanks again.
April 7, 2007, 11:15 p.m. CST
My theory isn't complicated at all. I believe Tarantino simply re-ordered events in order to play with viewer's expectations (no different than what he did in Pulp Fiction). But by starting his narrative in the middle as it were, it does put an entirely different spin on Death-Proof. And for the TB'er that claimed the boot hit SM in the throat - watch the movie again. It's definitely a face shot.
April 7, 2007, 11:16 p.m. CST
by stuntman mikey
Tracie Thoms was amazing in my opinion and her character is probably the most well written bad ass female character out of them all (all due respect to Zoe Bell). And that convo with Zoe Bell about taking the car for a ride is actually CRITICAL to what happens next...to me Death Proof is perfection basically from that scene on... To each their own i guess :)
April 7, 2007, 11:20 p.m. CST
by stuntman mikey
go pick up the screenplay and you will see your theory isnt true, but it is an interesting one and certainly Tarantino-esque.
April 7, 2007, 11:48 p.m. CST
by justin s
I hate people making excuses for Death Proof. "oh it's a Tarantino movie.. you should EXPECT there to be lots of dialogue." well then he shouldn't be making a movie for Grindhouse. "It is in reverse, the ending is really the beginning." that doesn't take out all the talking, and seems pretty complicated for a movie that's supposed to be about exploitation. if Tarantino can't make a Grindhouse movie then the second half should have been Thanksgiving or Machete, or any movie by someone that knew what to do.
April 7, 2007, 11:50 p.m. CST
If the screenplay doesn't bear out my theory, that'd be a shame - just because I think it makes the film much more interesting than the straight-foward flick it appears to be. If I see the film again, however, and I can verify that Russell doesn't have the scar in the second half (which, for all I know, he does) then I'll still stick with my take on the film. And to tailhook - just because YOU found a movie to be boring doesn't make it trash. Even if this were exactly point-A to point-B storytelling, I'd still give Death-Proof high marks for some great performances, astonishing stunt driving, and one of the all-time rousing endings. That some people don't dig it or even hate it does nothing to affect my feelings one way or the other.
April 7, 2007, 11:51 p.m. CST
by Darth Melkor
Badass concept, but the talking... the talking... it went on and on and on... Why couldn't the whole movie be like the last half hour... I think Planet Terror and the trailers were just sooo good, then DP was so slow. The rest of Grindhouse was just mayhem for 100 minutes, then there was an hour of chicks talking about nothing. Then we got a great finale. Still... we needed a lot more of Kurt Russell jacking up women in his car o' death.
April 7, 2007, 11:54 p.m. CST
Stuntman Mike killed those girls in the white car during the last car chase. Instead he went out like a punk. For the first half of DP (there's a good acronym for you) Stuntman Mike came off as a total badass. Then once that annoying black chick began shooting him he almost became a total pussy. Its like he turned into General Grievous or something...
April 8, 2007, 12:01 a.m. CST
The comparison I would make between the two films is- Rodriguez had to emulate the Grindhouse experience, while it comes naturally to Tarantino. Planet Terror had memorable character archetypes, Deathproof had characters we give a damn about. Planet Terror (which I dug), made sure to hit every grindhouse cliche', and wasn't really supposed to be taken too seriously. It was fun emulated nostalgia. Deathproof, however, was straight up a damn good movie. You can already see how Tarantino wanted this to be something larger, as he is now putting together a full length cut. This is also part of the reason for Deathproof's odd structure, but honestly, the people bitching about it being "slow", or too dialogue-laden are completely missing the point. The first half of the movie (the first set of girls) was made to introduce and develop the Stuntman Mike character. The second group are, obviously, our characters, and the fun begins when these two halves collide. Yes the long dialogue starts again, but everything the second group of girls talks about has a point, and comes back around in the last half of the film. And that last half... as tense and exhilarating as anything you've ever seen. Machete was fun. Hobo With a Shotgun had it's moments. I don't think Rob Zombie got the whole grindhouse idea, and Werewolf Women of the SS was the least of the trailers. Lucky for him the Nic Cage cameo brings the house down. I think Eli Roth is a talentless hack, but he did knock Thanksgiving out of the park. That being said, the trailer (more so than Planet Terror) is complete emulation. I know the gore hounds are screaming for this to be made into a full length, but honestly all you would end up getting is a "wink wink", paint by numbers grindhouse slasher, not something original like Death Proof. The Don't trailer was great. Edgar Wright and Co. obviously get it, and gave it their trademark humor. Overall Grindhouse is some of the most worthy time you could spend at the movies.
April 8, 2007, 12:02 a.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
That was funny.
April 8, 2007, 12:05 a.m. CST
While I did not catch that all it is much appreciated that you pointed that out. Still regardless of how clever a move that was on QT's part it does not change the fact that the 1st part of Deathpoop was just rambling garbage. He really could have made it a lot shorter and got the same point across. The 1st set of ladies were just boring. But again thank you for pointing that out. I am suprised no one caught that yet on here.
April 8, 2007, 12:11 a.m. CST
I'm going to say it, you may want to be sitting down. The end of Deathproof is the best ending in the history of movies ever. I literally died laughing. Literally. I've always had a special place in my heart for QT, but after that, that man has balls. Fuck this movie was fun.
April 8, 2007, 12:12 a.m. CST
And if SutterCane is right, color me shocked.<p>Planet Terror was great fun, but none of the deaths mean anything. The five girls Stuntman Mike kills, resonate. My theater had long cheers at the end.
April 8, 2007, 12:17 a.m. CST
Seriously, I can't stand all these pricks who are defending Death Proof. You must be out of your mind. I think critics and hollywood strugglers want a QT movie that fails so they can claim him as THEIR OWN from now on. And Death Proof is just that. Every other QT movie is an IDEAL movie. This is a lazy genre exercise - it felt a lot like Blow Out, which QT referenced quite a bit. What is up with not giving Kurt Russell more time on screen??? Jesus. You let a bunch of dumb actresses (I hate Rosario Dawson, gohd) roam free and push Snake to the sidelines? What the fuck? And fuck the ending, whether it's the "beginning" or not. You don't punk out your villian like that. It's not about being open-minded or taking a creative risk. It's like killing Jason Vorhees with a fucking tampon at the end. And fuuuuuuhck that. Curious to see Vern's take. Is this badass cinema? DP is not. And Planet Terror was shite as well. This is a SAD DAY to be a huge fan of both of these directors, especially QT, the golden boy. I hope Knowles is waiting to drop a bombshell that he didn't like it. PLEASE. Moriarty should at least examine why most of do not like DP and are letdown by the GH experience. Sad sad day.
April 8, 2007, 12:19 a.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
But before I go, again, I loved every last second of Grindhouse. And I'm thankful this project was able to make the light of day and come to pass. I'm sorry it's not performing as well in the box office as many of us would have liked. But if the filmmakers happen to read this talkback... Quentin, Robert, Eli, Edgar, Rob, and cast and crew I just want to thank y'all for the most fun I've had in the theater in a minute! Much respect and props.
April 8, 2007, 12:26 a.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
Were the movies perfect? Of course not. Would I have changed a few things here and there (i.e.- give Russell more screen time)? Of course. But I still loved the movie for the overall product. For the intent. And in this day and age, for the privilege, of being able to see some really cool out of the ordinary movie making that challenges to be different as well as honor a genre of cinema's past.
April 8, 2007, 12:32 a.m. CST
by THE KNIGHT
great name btw... Looks like we all go to the AMC theatres ehh... I too, am sad it's not performing well.. so far... I guess we'll see how the rest of the weekend goes... Keep your fingers crossed...
April 8, 2007, 12:53 a.m. CST
Has QT Conflated Himself w. "none other", has he shook the spear. First. I don't do spoilers. I don't quibble about where a boot lands (is it on his throat, his face…though I know such discussions to be the realm of fanboydom, I'm much more willing to have FANBOY discussions when spooning with said fanboys (in person)) O what fun! Allow me a few rushed, tired, and dull thoughts my newest friends, my newest rivals. Okay, Stuttercane is on the right path here— We most obviously must think of the metaphor for the two films—that of recycling— In "Planet Terror"—the leitmotif is obvious—as, we all know the allusions, heard the same jokes, heard them repeated—in different ways—(hand on belly, "I never miss") the way in which certain elements HAD to be used in the end of the film Remember the old chekovian adage for the short story—if you write a scene and there is a gun on the wall, then, by the end of it, the gun must, absolutely, without a doubt, go off—? Does the Zoe Ball falling in a ditch conversation fall under this category? Is this foreshadowing? What about Foreshadowing? Could the shadow (second half) be foreshadowing the first reel? Another way of looking at it: because the two reels have the exact same structure, how unlikely is it that they can be reshuffled? Isn't such a maneuver drawing attention to itself? If it is, why? How does the second half of the film turn into the first? Does it recycle itself—? If it is, if it is recycling itself, is it fair to refer to this as a sort of self-awareness? A movie that knows it is a movie…about movies…with people from the movies playing people in the movie? How then could this hyper-self awareness lead to some crazy obsessive pathology that a man like Stuntman Mike has—? Is he not just a metaphor… for old movies, for the old directors, for the old ideas of cinema (voyeurism, existentialism, post-modernism)? Nobody has mentioned Hitchcock…and they shouldn't…because it's too obvious and stupid of you. How does recycling and Nostalgia and sentimentality confuse history? How does the bad assedness of Mike in the first reel of DP confuse the "pussy-juiced" Stuntman Mike in the second? The structure here is an amazing example of high minded, well crafted, well written Art, and it lends itself to awesome ass questions and metaphors…and how and why we relate to him…which art should do… Notice that the Girls who give him his "pathological perverse stalker" behavior are none other than Cinephiles, gearheads—people from the Current Industry…and are women, of course, the QT obsession above all… In short: this movie is tackling one of the greatest themes in art…. Hamlet…er… death…the anxiety of…the anxiety of art…immortality…Death Proof One final note. Well, two. Nobody mentions the fact that this movie begins with girls having to take a piss…think about that…and then think about all the movies that strive for realism, for the how of normal conversation, for our flatness, for our bad jokes, our pot smoking, our poorly timed comebacks, or our misheard quips, or trite observations, lapsed comebacks, forced laughs… I suggest that Reservoir Dogs forces itself into the mouths of its characters…that it is purely style…whereas in a film purely interested in style and exploring style…we come away with characters that are organic, their own mouth-spigots…something which QT must have been the conduit for more than the voice of… It's very likely that QT is insane when he conflates himself with Shakespeare, however. The man with the ego big enough to think he can Be Shakespeare will be, unfortunately, the Man to Act like him and come as close to him…no one stumbles meekly onto greatness…they fight for it, in fact… they demand it…for they think it their right, their need…his passion for films, for their greatness, their affect, is a sort of sublimation for one's quest for power over death…such elegant metaphors are explored in Stuntman Mike…in Death Proof (certain reference to Poems Never Die. Shakespeare never dies...Movie's Never Die…and especially because of the fact that the continuum is relapsed, that it is like a snake fueling its beginning)…QT has slipped this one past sixty percent of this board… But were it not for the review, a few key posts, I wouldn't have framed my thoughts about DP this way… (point two: b/c Planet Terror is stirring so little debate doesn’t that mean something? It comes and goes while people are forced to reckon with Death Proof and the why of it…how utterly cinematic…how much we were at the hands of an auteur…) Final Thought: Beautiful scene: the maudlin strings that rise up on the score while Jungle Julie texts the Movie Star crush that never arrives… (how truly sentimental!)
April 8, 2007, 12:54 a.m. CST
...might just be the way it is after all (granted, I've not read the published screenplay). If you recall, towards the end of the first half of DP, McGraw and Son #1 are walking through the hospital, where they've just seen Russell lying on a hospital bed, and McGraw is telling his son why he thinks Stuntman Mike murdered Jungle Julia et al, though of course it could never be proved. Well, while that speech is still going on, we suddenly see Russell OUTSIDE the hospital, taking pics of Rosario, Zoe and etc., obviously choosing them as potential victims. Black shades, no silver jacket...and I honestly can't remember if he had the scar or not. But he looks somewhat different for sure--and when the car shows up, it's ALSO different (no skull and crossbones on the hood, etc). Now, true, the end of the film certainly looks as if he's literally beaten to death--I mean, that last kick sends him down HARD, right on the back of his head; and that's BEFORE the face-stomp (again, interesting that the one girl in the group who is a mother is the one who deals the last blow; see my two posts way above that nobody bothered to even reference, boo-hoo, nobody likes me). I mean, if that was me...I'D sure as hell be dead. But if he somehow survived that...well, it'd be a PERFECT origin story as to why the guy went from stuntman to killer. And it would explain the scar, which I don't believe is done anywhere else in the movie. It's possible that, once again, QT was playing with the timeline--but if so, he coulda been a tad more obvious about it. And we STILL shoulda heard Julia on the radio at least once; how many damn billboards did we have to see? Yes, we get it: great legs, nice feet (got Uma's beat a million miles, dat's fo sho), hot and way too aware of it. How does this make her a famous radio voice? Ah well, I'll go see the film again; and I'm damn sure buying the dvd.
April 8, 2007, 12:58 a.m. CST
T-Shirt hanging on the wall in the bar in "Death Proof".
April 8, 2007, 1:05 a.m. CST
Holy guacamole, never thought of it that way! And I should clarify: I didn't mean that Kurt was outside the actual HOSPITAL, just that he was outside, when the sheriff is still winding up his little monologue. Which led me to ask: when, exactly, did he get up and go outside? He was just in the damn hospital bed!!! The two obvious possibilities are: time has flashed either forward, or backward, while McGraw's voiceover continues. But if it's forward, it'd have to be WAY forward, would it not, as Mike would have to be completely recuperated, owning a new car, etc. Consider, too, that the first two times we see Mike kill with the car (Rose McG in the passenger seat; then the head-on collision), it is NIGHT. When he's chasing the second group of girls, it's broad daylight. Now, which time of day is it gonna be easier to kill successfully? It seems to me that the second half MUST be a flash backward in time, indicating that the killer stuntman has learned from his, er, "mistake". Gonna have to read the screenplay now, fer sure.
April 8, 2007, 1:07 a.m. CST
An estimated $13 million weekend? A $5 million opening day. Even the B. O. is a joke. Good.
April 8, 2007, 1:09 a.m. CST
Check out trailer two. Stuntman Mike clearly has his scar while he's taking a picture of the second foursome.
April 8, 2007, 1:12 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... the second half of DEATH PROOF takes place 14 months later. <P>And the last page says, "When he hits the red asphalt, Stuntman Mike is no more. <>The FILM FREEZE FRAMES like an old-school kung-fu movie that ends at the death blow." <P>Guys, she caves his head in, IRREVERSIBLE-style. He's dead. Seriously.
April 8, 2007, 1:15 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... it's not my job to "defend" anything. I've explained at length why I love DEATH PROOF. I think it's telling that the most common complain runs along the lines of "Why do those bitches talk so much? I want to see Stuntman Mike kill a lot of girls!" <P>Yeah. I'll bet. <P>Quentin loves his girls, and I'm glad he does. I do, too, after this. Is Jungle Julia spoiled? Sure. Are the Austin girls less likeable? Yep. But if you don't like Abernathy, Kim, Lee, and Zoe, then I'm sure the film doesn't play for you. I loved 'em, and I think it's dynamite.
April 8, 2007, 1:17 a.m. CST
...which can be boiled down to this: the final beatdown isn't as cathartic as it should be, because we have not been given enough opportunity to hate Stuntman Mike enough...he isn't the snarling henchman in Die Hard; hell, he isn't even Hans Gruber...but we HAVE been given WAY too much opportunity to find things to dislike about the last group of girls, and we aren't rooting for em as hard as we could be, mainly because QT paints em as more than a little stupid, and nearly deserving of what happens (and almost happens) to them. But finally, I will admit this: I loved the "I'm OK" scene, too.
April 8, 2007, 1:17 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I've never really understood the mentality that watches a movie to root for someone who is killing women in various ways. The guy up above who complains that letting the girls kill Stuntman Mike is like "killing Jason Voorhees with a tampon" is pretty much laying his own psyche bare. You've got issues, man. Stuntman Mike is a scumbag and a giant pussy, and he gets what is coming to him. He's charismatic, sure, but he's a fucking murderer. Rooting for him to "kill the bitches"... well, like I said... it says a lot about you.
April 8, 2007, 1:24 a.m. CST
...as I always enjoy your reviews and recognize a fellow movie nut when I see one. I'll add further that I didn't want to root for Mike at all--that is, I didn't want him to become Freddy Krueger where all you want him to do is kill the nubile teenage girls that are somehow representative of all the chicks who turned you down way back when--no, I WANTED to hate him, and root for the good guys. But whether it's Russell's portrayal, or QT's script, he just isn't nasty enough somehow. Maybe Roarke or Rhames or whoever else would have been.
April 8, 2007, 1:30 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... that's totally cool. I think QT actually subverts expectations in a lot of ways. Mike's a pretty cool guy in the bar. But he's also pretty much a loser with girls... totally awkward. His discussion of what films and shows he worked on falls flat, and he knows it. He's not evil like Michael Myers... he's just a guy who can't score with women, and who acts out in the most vile way imaginable as a result. <P>When he's crying and yelling at Abernathy and Zoe and Kim that he was just "having fun," he's not lying. He really doesn't know any other way to interact, and he can't imagine that any girl would ever fight back. He doesn't see them as people, and I think there are several talkbackers here who have the same issue based on what they wrote. <P>I don't think you're wrong if you don't like DEATH PROOF. <P>But I do think you're creepy if you blatantly hate women.
April 8, 2007, 1:31 a.m. CST
by Han Ol' Buddy
Or, whatever it was called. Did I miss it?
April 8, 2007, 1:35 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I just think they ran out of time and QT never got around to filming it. <P>I'll bet those casting sessions were fun, though.
April 8, 2007, 2:49 a.m. CST
my analysis of recycling, anxiety, death-proof still stands... that DP isn't "reversed" is a definite loss for my case...poor me... but c'mon, everything else is all so obvious... yeah...I mean, when I have a gf, I want my friends to like her, when I see a movie I like or see a band I like, I want my friends to like them...and as we are all to some sad shameless degree a group of likeminded boys men girls and whathave you, I would like you all to like Death Proof... for its oh so many merits... obv. mike's pyschology is "ressentiment" ... self-loathing...self-pity...and it seems like to have us sit in the theater to hear QT air some of this through the Voice of Stuntman (is this why, Zeke, you may "side" w/ him, or understand, b/c he too has lost something)...so obv. he's gonna be awkward with women when he's trying to "regain" something that can't be regained...the grindhouse experience...the way he used to look...has to resort to these creepy John Wayne-book moments, interact through on the playground hair tugging sort of young boy behavior... ...it is sad. he's much like me. an opinionated idiot...a zealot... but again. QT has been tossing around how some of his friends consider him to be like a modern shakespeare. he definitely tackles the grand metaphor for all of art...a reaction against death...and to further pyschoanalyze the symbol of the woman, of the needing to piss at the beginning of the movie, would seem entirely inappropriate considering the nature of the majority of the posts on this forum... ...peronsally...i got pretty shitty during this movie...maybe whiskey helps...and to have an audience that is also talking about the movie while people talk about the movie helps too...my theater experience was kick ass...and i'm sorry others had theaters that cooled down...if they were drinking from the start, the belly warmed up with the movie...damn...(sad tear for the good old days) i wish i could've smoked a goddamn joint in the theater...some day.
April 8, 2007, 2:52 a.m. CST
I mean--his regret that movies are shot digitally, CGI...which, is to some degree...why Stuntman is a man out of sorts...out of his time and place...is nostalgic... Anywho. Just to clarify...i unnersomeofstandingnow.
April 8, 2007, 2:57 a.m. CST
I have the deathproof soundtrack now, but i cant find the Planet Terror cd, which i really want cause i really liked roberts score. Ameoba doesnt have it, heck i was even willing to pay the outrageous virgin megastore prices but they didnt have it either. well hopefully i will get it soon. like i said in the other thread what a awesome time at the theatre.
April 8, 2007, 3:16 a.m. CST
You can have it by the middle of next week. Frickin Best Buy didn't have it either, but you best believe they had ten thousand goddamn copies of Hannah Montana or whatever the fuck it's called. Asked for Planet Terror and got blank stares...the same kinda stares Stuntman Mike gets in the bar when he says, "Does any one of you know what I'm talking about?"
April 8, 2007, 7:19 a.m. CST
...For giving a definitive answer on QT's intentions. I do wish he had intented the second half as a flashback but if that's not the case, I still enjoyed the movie. If it's just a linear story, however, I think it's disappointing that Tarantino built up Stuntman Mike to be this terrifying villian only to have him immediately crumble as soon as he encounters some serious opposition. It would've been more satisfying if Bell's crew had to take him out and put him down on if he was still a bad-ass and not a howling, pathetic cry baby. There's such a disaparity in how the character's portrayed from one section to the next, it would've been better to have the second half be the less seasoned version.
April 8, 2007, 9:11 a.m. CST
by stuntman mikey
Actually - the fact that SM turns into a crying baby is part of what makes the turn around at the end all the more fun. When have you ever seen a flick where all of a sudden the badass psycho path realizes he's fucking over matched and tries to escape from dodge. Stuntman Mike's come uppance was friggin hilarious and had the audience i saw the flick with going nuts, and the very last shot of the flick after "The End" title card is priceless. I heard that QT's initial cut didnt include extra kick to the jugular after the title card. QT thought it was funnier to end it old school 70's style right there, but it was Robert R, a dude who obviously knows the audience thirst for blood, who convinced QT to put that shot back in. All i know is i left that movie feeling such a high that it reminded me what seeing a flick with a big audience is all about. My only request to have completed the experience would have been to throw an additional coda after all the end credits ran to see what happened between the hillbilly and the cheerleader...me thinks they were probably going at it deliverance style.
April 8, 2007, 9:48 a.m. CST
I could care less about the "hating women" argument that Mori is trying to pin on the TB'ers who did not like DEATH PROOF. And I love a good revenge movie - KILL BILL was great. I'm guessing QT wanted to make something like I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE or more propery DEATH CAR ON THE FREEWAY - a wonderfully tacky 1979 TV movie that scared the shit out of me as a kid. The guy droe around in a van playing "Devil Went Down to Georgia" and picked women off on the 405. Well, Tarantino failed. Stutman Mike is a moron at best, and he subverted no expectations Mori. It has nothing to do with hating women, in a slasher/horror movie you need a good antagonist from which you will subvert expectations. I knew as soon as the second group of girls came along that they were going to kill Stuntman Mike. The problem is I had to wait AN HOUR FOR THEM TO FUCKING DO IT AND DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF BORING ASS CONVERSATIONS THAT SET UP THE LAST 10 MINUTES IN THE LEAST SUBTLE WAY POSSIBLE. What he did succeed at is making a lesser version of KILL BILL mixed with some of the Diner scenes of RESERVOIR DOGS.
April 8, 2007, 10:12 a.m. CST
by justin s
you hate Grindhouse if you didn't like Grindhouse!
April 8, 2007, 10:53 a.m. CST
Death Proof, after 3 days, has totally stayed in my head for some reason, in a good way!! dont know why...Planet Terror was fun and all, but DP was far more memorable
April 8, 2007, 11:17 a.m. CST
NUDITY! Death Proof coulda been critic proof if QT had given us just ONE topless scene with Jungle Julia and "Butterfly" in the shower or something...or maybe a scene where Vanessa Fellatio gives a lap dance to Sydnee P's ubiquitous foot. A little lesbian action and before you know it, every post would say something like "Damn boring chatty dialogue but AT LEAST THERE WERE BOOBIES!" And really, to properly recreate the GH experience, shouldn't we have been given more SEX? Hah? SHOULDN'T WE HAVE?
April 8, 2007, 1 p.m. CST
Hey Moriarity, you're coming off like a real snob. The entire time during promotions, QT has said "I WANT TO MAKE A SLASHER FILM BUT WITH A CAR." Then you have everyone going apeshit about Michael Myers in Zombie's new film. So, if I prefer an OLD-SCHOOL HORROR FILM like Jason, Michael or even SLUMBER PARTY MASSACRE a la THANKSGIVING (Which obviously has a thing for mass kills and an old school villain, which is why people like it!!!) then I quote "Hate women?" Dude, get over it. This is such a snobbish way to defend DP's faults. I expect that from EW (nice write-up on NERVE Vern), but not from you man. The dialogue in DP with the second batch of girls is asinine. It doesn't build character, it makes me ask "why the hell do I care about any of these girls." That's not flipping a genre on its head, that's simply boring your audience. $12 million this weekend. Moriarity, go to the theatre and ask people coming out two questions. A) Did you like QT? B) Did you like Death Proof? C) Do you hate women. Then post the results here. You can't relate the poor boxoffice for this to its running time. Saturday dropped like crazy for its b.o. BAD WORTH OF MOUTH is all over this. When it makes $5 next wke and SINKS the Weinstein Company as Nikki Finke is reporting, then maybe you'll examine why this is a TOTAL DISASTER finanically, culturally and for fans of these directors. We were letdown. Maybe if I had a kid, I'd feel differently and stop hating women. "HOW CAN YOU LIKE THE SLASHER GENRE THIS IS BASED ON AND NOT HATE WOMEN?" That is what you're proposing. Some type of ridiculous Fox NEWS debate.
April 8, 2007, 2:11 p.m. CST
Title: Weeding Out the Misogynists Amongst Viewers of Grindhouse/Death Proof. Question One: Do you like Quentin Tarantino's films? Answer: 98% of patrons give an enthusiastic hell yes. Question Two: Did you like Death Proof? Answer: 60% of patrons respond "Actually I was let down by Death Proof. I didn't respond much to any of the characters besides SMM. I like QT's dialogue in his other films, but this just seemed very hackish." Question Three: Do you you wish there had been more kills? Answer: Well, I don't not wish that, but even if there were more kills, I'd still think it was a weak effort. Moriarity's conclusion: 60% of the Grindhouse's audience is twisted misogynists who like to see women butchered on screen. Death Proof is a poltically correct slasher film and that is why it's soooo good. It weeds out the twisted sickos from the film buffs....finally!!! xoxo-Moriarity
April 8, 2007, 2:32 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I'm sure you insisting on calling them "twats" and "cocksuckers" has nothing to do with how you view women. At all. Well argued.
April 8, 2007, 2:54 p.m. CST
by justin s
he said THOSE women were twats and cocksuckers... not ALL women are twats and cocksuckers. just because tarantino wrote some complaining cuss-word-spurting girls in his movie, it doesn't mean I love my mother any less.
April 8, 2007, 4:13 p.m. CST
Thank you. I really consider Moriarty calling me a misogynist for feeling incredibly let down by QT's Death Proof about the lamest and most telling thing (about Moriarity) imaginable. I've read "Shoots from the Hip" and "Rebel without a Crew." I'm well-versed in film. I just think that someone who doesn't live in Austin or one who doesn't prefers a politically correct slasher film being passed off as "grindhouse" exploitation should be able to enjoy Death Proof. That is all. I do believe that the majority of people, including geeks, feel like I do. There's enough geeks to make this picture do $50M total. When it drops 70%-80% next weekend (and it will), somebody here should explain that. I don't live in Austin, I don't know the directors, and I (according to Moriarity) hate women. Fine, but DP is the letdown of QT's career, and it doesn't hurt to be vocal if you're a fan. It sucks that most people on this site can't have that discourse w/o resorting to labeling people twisted and woman-haters or non-Austinites. Give me a damn break.
April 8, 2007, 5:12 p.m. CST
Go and see a see sequel no one wanted are we done yet? to film no wanted Are we there yet? or go to movies that involve Zombies and psycho stuntmen killing women. If you have a family, then you will take the kids to Are you done yet.? Grindhouse maybe a better film(Henry cabot beck liked it alot) but it aint a family and with running time 3.5 hrs most people will go and watch something else, like are you done yet?
April 8, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST
Just saw the trailer again before my DVD copy of BLACK X-MAS and there is clearly a shot of Russel getting a lap dance from Vanessa Ferlito. And he's shaking like crazy. Could be some missing but necessary info. on his character. Again, like the bad actors, maybe this was Tarantino's point.
April 8, 2007, 10 p.m. CST
1. animal structure... your preposition is as weak as your predicate... but that aside...2. I think many of you, if not all, are missing the point... 3. if you find a movie boring, boring is as boring as boring can be, will be, and will always be, and no amount of analysis, ideology, and whatever, can save it from suh the adjective to end all when it comes to entertainment (allow me to come back to this)...4. is it safe to point out that a devout catholic may fall asleep during an Easter vigil? 5. this analysis is for those that like the movie.6. like i said before, I am all for having everyone respect and love my opinion. as i'm all for everyone thinking i'm a good looking sex machine. that sort of thing. anyway.7. if the Girls represent what is new...New MOvies, Women Coming Up...Post-colonial crit, dialectics, Nietzsche's will to power, master/slave morality...that kind of thing...if they are representative of that, this era of brainless CGI and wasteful chitterchatter, this I'm gonna carry a guun and shoot first and kill rapists, I'm going to take charge and fuck men instead of them fuck me, if we're going to have women making the movies, supporting the movies (remember these girls were make up artists, stuntwomen, actress)...the old idea of the grind house is dying... the old way of watching movies is dust...it isn't death proof... are the ironies becoming apparent? Stuntman Mike hates Women. And he blames them. Stuntwomen kill him in a better car. 8. what are the two kinds of entertainment I asked to touch on up around point 3? They are visceral, and intellectual. i think QT is doing an excellent job of mashing these together. However. 9. many of you will cheer this...do you remember Nietzsche's criticism of Euripides (sp?>) in BoT...that it had become too intellectual?...o where is the Dionysius Quentin of say, Kill Bill Vol. 1, lights out Crazy 88? (I feel your pain) 10. But he's better and smarter than that and he isn't going to pigeon hole himself for Fanboys. QT is himself becoming Death Proof here. Celebrating the female form...Birth…the circular belly, the leg, the foot, fetish yes, disassembling…creepy objectification…but there is implied movement, and wholeness too, love for these girls, really, even if what they say sucks…you can't say that Quentin doesn't care, that he loves them, that he showers them with the praise of what I think females do love: to be watched, looked at, and admired: the camera goes in a circle around the girls: the movie recycles from previous works: even if the structure isn't "circular", it still has many elements that have to do with life/death, male/female...it plays on these binaries...it teases them, invokes them, and shatters them, only to cull them back...breathe new life into them… 15. of course these girl suck. they are from our time. Did you guys think the girls from Sin City were any cooler? Because they said less, were more comic book archetypal... granted Jackie Brown was a woman if there ever was one...and goddamn...but i digress... Harry kinda sorta gotta right...Zoe Ball is the total idea of masculinity in a chirpy girly girl way...but yeah, kinda annoying... these lines between grindhouse art vamp nostalgia are starting to break down. Part two...lame appeal to fantasy. 1. i would kill to hang out with girls that like to take shots, ride on the hoods of cars...these girls which I imagine are better looking than any of us here have going at the moment 2. Fer chrissake these are girls That SYMPATHIZE with the asshole director for cheating (...er?) on Abernathy because she wasn't putting out...3. not only do these girls kill our villains...but they understand our needs...and unfortunately for us...their needs are beginning to be satisfied..5..of course...am I sexist? i have to be. i am "guy reduced to absurdity". i have a part that is different. i'll always see myself as different. thinking that girls can't kill dudes because they're girls is ignorant. specifically targeting and hating women for a man's lack of masculinity is misogyny...Pat. Batemen here. for our emasculation, for our sense of power. God Bless. You all. *part Three-----judging a film's success by its Box Office Numbers is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my entire life…"the crowd is always wrong"….
April 8, 2007, 10:38 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
Look, as I've said since the very start of this talkback... if you didn't like the movie, that's fine. My god, after ten years of doing this, I'm more than used to people disagreeing with me over films I've enjoyed. <P>I just find a lot of the particular arguments here disturbing. Pardon me for thinking it's a little twisted that the reason you didn't like it is because not enough "bitches" died. <P>And I guess we view horror films differently, because I've never watched slasher films rooting for anyone to get butchered. My sympathies were always with the victims and the survivors. Maybe that makes me stupid or "moralistic," but maybe we're just processing things differently. I've always found it odd that people find Freddy Krueger, a child molester and murderer, to be heroic, or someone to root for. <P>If you didn't like DEATH PROOF, that's fine. But I reserve the right to think you're creepy if you think the point of slasher movies is to cheer for the slashers.
April 8, 2007, 11:01 p.m. CST
First off. Moriarity is bunching everyone who disliked Death Proof into this "kill bitches" category. One poster has used that argument, and it is indeed crassly worded. But c'mon. MORIARTY, DID YOU LIKE THANKSGIVING'S TRAILER FOR ITS SYMPATHETIC VICTIMS OR FOR THE FUNNY/MORBID TRAMPOLINE/CHEERLEADER SCENE? Give me a break. All of those naked camp counselors in F13th getting killed - you felt sorry for them?? Hahaha. C'mon!
April 8, 2007, 11:16 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I'm not lumping "everyone" into any category. <P>But please... continue to reduce my comments to a simple either/or. <P>There are many comments in this thread about why people liked one over the other or liked neither or liked both that are all interesting and valid and well-argued. <P>My point is that there is also a fair bit of blatant misogyny. If you don't think that applies to you, then perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to be offended. But I think the language we use to refer to other people can be revealing, and when I read someone who is upset because not enough "bitches" died, I think that says more about them than it does about the movie.
April 8, 2007, 11:27 p.m. CST
I don't understand why you're not joining in on the debate here, instead of referencing these few people who wrote "bitches" - which I doubt they meant it in a misogynistic way. That says a lot about our modern semantics and vocabulary, but I think you're not adding much to the discussion here. I mean, do you agree that QT's acting in both movies was too much and hurt the overall experience? Do you think that the black actress's dialogue in this is too similar to Jules? Speaking of bitches, do you feel this is a thin stereotypical black character as many TBers are brining up? Where does Death Proof rank amongst QT's filmography for you personally? And finally, do you really dislike the cool kills of F13th and Thanksgiving while favoring and finding sympathy with the victims of slasher films?
April 8, 2007, 11:50 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... go read the majority of the talkbacks I've contributed to this thread. You're the ones who have reduced every comment I've made about the film, including my review, to one thing. Not me.
April 8, 2007, 11:51 p.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
You said "I guess we view horror films differently because I've never watched slasher films rooting for anyone to get butchered. My sympathies were always with the victims and the survivors."<p>ReallY? No offense, Mori, but you must've been going to different horror movies than me the last 20 odd years or so because the overly whiny, cookie cutter, stereotypical horny and dumb as a brick teenagers that have completely occupied (and ruined) far too many horror films ARE the reason I've found myself sitting in a darkened theater, munching on my popcorn, and suddenly thinking "Yeah, YOU can go. For wasting my time and pissing me off by being such an utter retard onscreen, you can't get it brutally enough. Oh, wait, your blonde bimbo cheerleader girlfriend? Yeah, she's gotta go too. GO VILLAIN!"
April 8, 2007, 11:54 p.m. CST
by Buzz Maverik
...because I want him to reply to me in one of those cool black boxes.
April 9, 2007, midnight CST
by drew mcweeny
... all you gotta do is be you, big guy. Wanna step out behind the theater and make out a little? I'll let you hold my Purdy shotgun.
April 9, 2007, 12:07 a.m. CST
Does anyone know if the whole "splitting the movie" thing is happening in Germany only or is it all over Europe? And why the fuck are QT and RR letting it happen at all? Sure splitting Grindhouse up to be shown seperately, a month apart, defeats the whole point of the experience they were trying to (re)create?
April 9, 2007, 12:09 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
<P>"I don't understand why you're not joining in on the debate here, instead of referencing these few people who wrote 'bitches' - which I doubt they meant it in a misogynistic way." <P>Debate? Really? I think I've contributed a lot of discussion to the thread overall, and if you look back at the entire thread, you can hardly say I've only focused on one thing. And I do think there's a difference between calling an individual woman (or guy, for that matter) a "bitch" or a "cunt" and calling women in general those names. Look back at this thread. You'll see both versions of the usage. <P>"I mean, do you agree that QT's acting in both movies was too much and hurt the overall experience?" <P>Nope. I think he's really funny in PLANET TERROR, and I think he's in about 20 seconds of DEATH PROOF. I don't even want to see him star in a film and be the sole lead, but in small roles like these, he certainly doesn't hurt the overall experience for me. Especially a film as deliberately wackjob as this one. <P>"Do you think that the black actress's dialogue in this is too similar to Jules?" <P>Not really. I think it sounds like QT's dialogue, but that's to be expected. He did, after all, write both characters. Some writers have no single voice for their films, and that's great. That's their style. With Tarantino, I think you've got a pretty good idea by now that his characters all stem from the same source. <P>"Speaking of bitches, do you feel this is a thin stereotypical black character as many TBers are brining up?" <P>No. As I said in my review above. And just because some talkbackers think differently, I'm not going to revise my opinion to match yours. <P>"Where does Death Proof rank amongst QT's filmography for you personally?" <P>Again... did you read my review? I discussed that. Why do you act like this is some point I've avoided? <P>"And finally, do you really dislike the cool kills of F13th and Thanksgiving while favoring and finding sympathy with the victims of slasher films?" <P>You're determined to misunderstand me on this point. You don't want a discussion or a debate. You seem to want to "win," and that's not a conversation about film. We see things differently. If you want to be antagonistic about it, feel free, but I'm not going to indulge you further. If you really want to have a conversation, as I have with people here and in the Zone all weekend, then cool. We'll have fun.
April 9, 2007, 12:25 a.m. CST
That is a very cool thing to do, thanks for answering my questions concisely. This is an EPIC THREAD, so sincere apologies for losing some date b/t here and Harry's post. If there's one thing I can thank QT for with Grindhouse, it's the strong feelings I feel against Death Proof compared to all of his other work. And that's a blast in itself - I would never debate Wild Hogs for the sake of a coronary at 25. I do hope QT lays off the acting in his and others' pictures after GH so people in the general public take him more seriously (not, ahem, "professionally") as a major director. I'll always cherish the groans and thumb-tapping inside the theatre during Death Proof's diner scene - it's not a sticky floor or a guy jerking off behind me - but it'll do fine. Does the reception by AICN staff for Death Proof/GH mark a major shift in the history of QT/AICN's fanbase? Perhaps, and maybe it's about time. I can't follow QT with this one, and I never thought I'd say that, especially about a "car slasher" movie. Thanks again, Moriarity. I will never understand how a topless cheerleader dying on a trampoline induces sympathy from you rather than a "hell yeah," but to each his own. I'd love to see you guys address the boxoff performance of GH - I know that's not the MO of AICN - but I think A LOT of people want some reassurance here.
April 9, 2007, 12:30 a.m. CST
Moriarty, I've been reading this site like crack for 10 years, I should be able to spell your name right, albeit in a mad fit of typing not seen since Hunter Thompson got The Fear. Cheers- The DohDoh
April 9, 2007, 12:38 a.m. CST
It's not a genre that I spend much time watching..."monster" movies don't scare me, neither to "slashers"...I find horror films in general quite boring, at least in terms of what the films are trying to be. However, I do watch them sometimes, although Wes Cravens films, from "Scream" onwards have been boring and predictable in every sense of the word. But in terms of who to root for, I think, for me at least, it breaks down like this: <p> I enjoy watching the killings...they are the most fun parts of the film, without doubt...I laugh at the cliched "girl runs UPstairs to escape when she should run out the front door" moments and what guy doesn't enjoy the required nude scene? <p> But ultimately, while the gore and the popcorn killings are fun to watch, there's always going to be one survivor, one person who manages to kill the killer and survive. And yeah, I root for her (survivor usually is female). It's not that I become emotionally connected to the character, or that I like her or anything, it's more to do with the idea that the killer has to be stopped and killed himself at some point. Sure, I like the knife going through the chest, or the stupid bitch getting trapped in the doggy door...it's fun, mindless entertainment, but at the end of the film, I still want the killer to end up dead...he is a violent, sick and twisted bastard after all. <p> Mori, you talked about Freddy Kreuger...I don't think that it's really about wanting him to win...I think most people want the good guys to win, but it doesn't mean we can't have some fun watching him slice and dice his way through some stupid teenagers along the way. It's the same with Jason or the "Scream" killers...we want them dead...but we also want to see them kill a lot of people in gruesome, vile ways first. <p> Let's face it...most people don't watch slashers for the engaging plot or the likeable character...more often than not, those elements don't even exist. We watch slashers to be entertained by cartoon violence and to see the hot chick shoot the bad guy at the end, just as the police arrive, 5 hours too late. <p> Is there an element of morality there? I suppose. It's mostly about balance. The killer can chop the heads off as many stupid teens as he likes as long as he ends up dead by the end. It's as simple as that.
April 9, 2007, 12:40 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
I'm not sure what reassurance there can be in a discussion of box-office. I personally loathe the reporting of it and the obsession with it since (A) most reported budgets are lies (B) all reported box-office is "estimates" i.e. whatever the fuck the studio tells you it is and (C) not important to me unless I'm getting a cut of it, which I'm not. <P>I never expected this to be a giant megahit. It's a fetish film, as I said in my review, and it speaks to a limited audience at best. I'm thrilled it got made, and in my mind, that's the victory.
April 9, 2007, 12:54 a.m. CST
Regarding a discussion of the boxoffice for GH, I think a lot of us are curious as to how this will affect Tarantino's relationship with the Weinsteins, with whom he's always had lots of creative control to make what he sees in his head. Also, how will it affect him as a filmmaker who vibes off of his audience to have a film that gets burnt at both the box office and by a certain percentage of his fanbase? Call me crazy, but I truly think he listens to his fans a lot, including on here. I didn't expect it to be a megahit either, but you have to wonder why a lot of "geeks" didn't show up...or not. What I saw with Death Proof was a great director no longer pleasing his audience along with himself first. I saw a director who's a little bit in his own world of film constructs and playing with genre in a very esoteric, erudite, elitist almost downright academic way. He's always played with genres, I get that, he's a clever director, but this was different. This was him operating with not much thought given to its reception, which I think is a first, and I think word-of-mouth and the low boxoffice will reflect that.
April 9, 2007, 1:01 a.m. CST
QT has referenced the book "Men, Women & Chainsaws" by Carol Clover quite a bit when doing the rounds for Death Proof. I think a lot of critics are considering that book's progressive dissection of male/female roles in slasher films when watching Grindhouse, possibly including Moriarty, as his views on slashers seem to parallel that book's argument. If this is the case with QT, Death Proof makes a little more sense to me, but doesn't excuse the flaws in the dialogue. If these characters are more symbols for the slasher genre than actual women, I might view the film differently. I just didn't expect QT to get so studious here for a balls-out thrill ride, which it clearly isn't.
April 9, 2007, 1:05 a.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... may make those points. I haven't read her book or, honestly, even heard of it. I just think there are different filters we're watching the films through. If that means you have to belittle my opinion as you did above, so be it. But I think the reason the "last girl" is the most pervasive archetype of those films is because we are supposed to be afraid for the people being killed, not rooting for them. If you're rooting for the killer, I'm not sure how you can even call it a horror film. At that point, it's just wish-fulfillment or even comedy. <P>You seem more interested in a genuine conversation now than just in poking me with a stick like above, so that's the best answer I can offer you.
April 9, 2007, 1:24 a.m. CST
That's actually how I see it...slashers in particular. They are so predictable without any genuine scares (at least for me) that I find myself watching them for their comedic value. <p> Hell, one of the most enjoyable things about those films is predicting who is going to live and who is going to die. Usually, there is a girl, the heroine...and sometimes a guy...oh and obviously any children. Everyone else ends up dead, including the killer. <p> I actually think most people do root for the killer, at least up until the final act. They don't want him to win, but they want him to kill as many people as possible before he meets the same fate. <p> To fear for the victims lives, you have to connect with them, and I don't think there are many horrors that manage to achieve that. What I would like to see is a film where everone dies, including the obvious heroine. Not because I'm rooting for the killer, but because it's unfortunately a more real reflection on the world we live in. <p> Why is it that a guy can kill a dozen people quite easily, but at the end, some naive girl manages to outwit him? I'd like to see an ending where the girl dies too...that would be scarier and makes it all too real. <p> You know Luke is going to destroy the Death Star, you know Superman will find a way to bring Lois back to life, you know that Neo is "The One". These films deal with fantasy and so do horrors. <p> But I would like to see a film where the girl doesn't win. Supernatural horrors are slightly different I suppose, but the serial killer slashers...I don't want the bad guy to win, but at the same time I kinda do, not because I'm rooting for him, but because it brings the film much closer to reality, and that's far scarier than "Sydney" surviving three mass murders.
April 9, 2007, 4:56 a.m. CST
When I grow up, I want to marry Zoë Bell. Put me firmly in the "loved both films equally, but for different reasons" camp. Two best lines in Death Proof? "Gulp." and "I'm okay!"
April 9, 2007, 7:23 a.m. CST
To paraphrase Wesley, "It h-h-h-h -hurts to be this good". Not only is GRINDHOUSE no 300, it ain't 100, as patrons stayed away from this narrowly focused vanity piece in search of an audience. Too much a "nudge, nudge, know what I mean?", way-too-self-absorbed homage to mediocrity. More like a documentary on B horror than a parody of it, (the latter of which would be redundant in any case.)My 'perfect blintz' analogy?... right on target. Some "in the know" predicted it could do $30 M opening weekend. It barely did over $11 M coming in 4th to such forgettable epics as BLADES OF GLORY, MEET THE ROBINSONS and ARE WE DONE YET? No other QT effort has opened less than $20 M. It will have to struggle to a profit with dvd's and rentals. When Roeper, I think, kidded, "What film couldn't use more zombies?", when it's gotten that mainstrean, then you know audiences are mostly all 'zombied out'. Good reviews notwithstanding, GRINDOUCH is the latest SNAKES ON A PLANE version of OPUD (Over Promise, Under Deliver). See it while you can, because barring a huge turnaround, it'll be gone a week from this Friday.... At least Roberto got some McGowan poon out of it. Yum! But word to the wise, DUN'T hire Loosie to work on the set next time! Din't Ricky titch you nothin'? Geek directors, gotta luv 'em.
April 9, 2007, 10:12 a.m. CST
For fuck's sake. You guys call yourself movie geeks? It's funny to hear you all bitching about how it got "beat" by a family movie, and then say that you won't be seeing it again and you won't be buying it on DVD. To me, that's just self-destructive to the scene you claim to be a part of. In movieland, money talks, so unless you want a slightly larger percentage of your future weekends crammed with bullshit like family movies starring Ice Cube, then I highly suggest you support films like Grindhouse. Hell, go see it again. I'm definitely going to. Want to leave after Planet Terror and the trailers? Go for it. Money in this movie's pocket is akin to investing in future movies like like it that you'll probably enjoy, so seriously - what's the fucking problem?
April 9, 2007, 11:28 a.m. CST
Spin it around and you got my review. PLANET TERROR kicks unholy ars. DEATHPROOF is like the ugly friend who doesn't get as much loven. Good, but not great. A bit talky on Tarentino's part. My wife calls it pretentious. I think Moriarity got it right the first time. A whole lot of dialogue without anything consequential going on. The film as a whole rocks. The trailers are awesome. Except for Rob Zombie's, which is just okay. One hell of an entertaining film though.
April 9, 2007, 11:36 a.m. CST
Death Proof was a bit drawn out on dialogue.. But, that is QT....
April 9, 2007, 12:53 p.m. CST
12-year-olds the world over are rejoicing. Congrats!
April 9, 2007, 1:06 p.m. CST
queue and re-watch the car chase under the subway sequence again. Or rent the 7-ups. Actually I'm sure you've seen that and own TFC but your memory must be fading because QT's car chase in DP was 'under-fucking-whelming' and cannot repeat cannot be compared to the aformentioned classics above.
April 9, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST
by Childe Roland
You've single handedly changed my entire preconception of Grindhouse.<p>I'm one of those guys who sees Quentin Tarantino as a lot of potential without direction or motivation. I'm a fan of his stories or, more explicitly, his characters (which is why Kill Bill, with its almost total lack of coherent story or genuine characterization, pissed me off so much).<p>I had pretty much resigned myself to the idea that QT was perfectly content to ignore his potential in deference to a lifetime of living his childhood dreams by emulating them (and their source material) in grotesquely exxaggerated detail ont he big screen. I had no expectations for Death Proof other than that it might be amusingly sick and over the top. Now you've gone and piqued my curiosity.
April 9, 2007, 1:59 p.m. CST
Here's a fairly big point in this debate that hasn't been covered yet. I think it points to the disappointment that many of us here have with QT's Death Proof. You see, for the past year, we've heard how Grindhouse was inspired by the posters of Grindhouse (and by posters, I mean posters, not Internet posters/TBers). QT has repeated at least 1,000 times including in EW and Fangoria that the reason he wanted to make Death Proof was to make a grindhouse movie that actually fulfilled what was promised on the outlandish posters that defined the period/genre almost as much as the celluloid itself. Go take a look at the poster for Death Proof. "White Hot Juggernaut going 200 Miles per Hour" "Terror so fierce it will rip you in two." Now, is the killer movie that comes to your imagination using both of those statements, combined with the imagery of SMM's badass car what you just viewed this weekend? No, surely it is not. I doubt even Moriarty can say "totally" to that one. Now, this isn't a matter of misunderstanding what QT said or what he promised his fans. This is a MATTER OF WHAT THE ENTIRE FILMS WERE BASED AROUND: TO FULFILL WHAT GRINDHOUSE POSTERS PROMISED. Do you expect an hour of runny, superfluous dialogue from a bunch of bad actresses/stunt women sitting around a diner table in a movie that's an hour and change, when you look at the DP poster? I'm beginning to think DP stands for its more graphic meaning. The actual movie aside, this is NOT what we expected to get. And what we got can be argued for eternity. I feel it sucked. But you CANNOT deny that what you expected and originally wanted from Death Proof is what you got. There is no doubt, guys and gals.
April 9, 2007, 4:25 p.m. CST
I've tried to add to the debate here and really flesh out personal and the majority's concerns over Death Proof. If I've overstayed my welcome, well, I'm a fiend for QT's movies. The more I think about Death Proof the more I view it as the weirdest type of cinematic beast I may have ever encountered. What's stranger to me is the mindset of QT as he was making this. I'm not sure I've read a really good piece of film writing on what QT was attempting to accomplish here. It sure as hell wasn't a straight-up grindhouse movie nor a bleeding heart homage. I see a little bit of craziness in it, actually. Walls and walls of ominous, obsessive genre contemplation and male/female role-tinkering behind very thin characters. Compared to QT's other works, which were to be shared with an audience, this feels incredibly, almost scarily distant and self-revolving. Bookend it with RR's lowbrow Planet Terror and it's like highschool and grad school, and it just does not work. I've always thought QT was a very different director than RR in terms of how he actually views the power of film, and this proved it to me beyond a doubt. I'll be really saddened if Tarantino's work from here on (especially with this lackluster reception and Harvey Weinstein flapping around GH's dead carcass in front of the media) is similar or as well-received as his works up to DP. To me, DP is sort of his Lady in the Water, except the critics bit it. Which is bad, actually. They're encouraging him to go in this direction. The last thing I want to read 20 years from now is some Orson Wells-like caution tale of how "Nobody in the South or Midwest understood Tarantino's new direction and it led to his ultimate demise." That's the type of thing that happens when you're so far ahead of other directors, which I believe QT is. It'll be interesting to see what happens from here. Indeed.
April 9, 2007, 5:20 p.m. CST
Funny sidenote: I can just imagine Mickey Rourke when QT told him that these girls were going to make him cry and then kill him. I bet he said something like "No way jose." and just walked out to smoke a cig. It's really a shame that not only did Kurt Russel have to play a burn-out, but that he got so little screen time. His appearance in the second half is especially restricted by the script. And not only that, but the film tanks. QT should put him in Inglorious Bastards to make up for it.
April 9, 2007, 8:14 p.m. CST
No one knows for sure, I guess, but I'm betting that's EXACTLY why he turned down the part. "Hey Mick, I know you're best known as Marv from Sin City now, probably one of the top five toughest bastards put to film, but howzabout we put you in this film where at the end four girls knock you around like a pinball, break your arm, crash your car, shoot you, and make you scream like a little bitch...oh, and then kill you by caving in your face with a stiletto heel? Huh, howzabout that? Wouldn't that be cool?" And I'm thinking Ving (Marsellus) Rhames woulda had a similar reaction to the idea. So even more credit, as a result, goes to Kurt Russell: it truly takes guts to play a part like this. And because it's Russell, a cinematic hero to most of us, it's nearly impossible for him to make the Stuntman Mike character someone to hate. Ray Liotta coulda done it, Julian McMahon coulda done it--QT, ya shoulda got someone who could play LOATHSOME.
April 9, 2007, 8:57 p.m. CST
Yeah Zeke, it's a real damn shame. Funny enough, I felt sorry for Pam Grier when I saw her in Jackie Brown. Now, I love JackieB, but the thing is, there's this unwritten law that actors/actresses (outside of Madsen and Uma) only get a one-time tango with QT, and let's face it, no other director can make you a star like QT can. But the fact that we'll probably never see Kurt Russell in another Tarantino movie is fucking sad, innit? I mean, he practically starred in Tarantino's lone art film/post-modern experiment. Russell is a total champ and I loved him in the first half, even though I began to doubt Death Proof when I saw QT + Eli Roth at the bar for NO FUCKING REASON. But anyhow, I really hope Vern brings some of this shit up in his review, but I'll be damned if we can find one objection or realistic window for criticsm from any of the AICNers. Maybe because, if there ever was one, this is AICN Colon The Movie, and even though it's kinda shitty, AICN contributors (Vern willing) can't diss a dust particle on the Grindhouse screen.
April 9, 2007, 9:07 p.m. CST
it pains me to write this. I had a spot reserved in my top 10 favorite films of all time for Grindhouse; sight unseen. I was convinced that QT and RR somehow knew my specific tastes for shitty 70's exploitation flicks and decided to make a movie just for me; and that movie would be Grindhouse. So I gladly left my parent's house on Easter Sunday as early as possible to catch a show on the opening weekend. And my heart sank as I sat for 3 hours and 11 minutes then left the theatre underFUCKINGwhelmed. What's worse is that the guy that ruined this movie for me is the man I had thought was the savior of contemporary film, Quentin Tarantino. He definitely lost me on this one. QT needs to realize that some of the ideas he thinks are 'totally fucking awesome' while he's on a coke binge are not in fact 'awesome' or even good at all. I honestly think that QT stopped making movies for average everyday film geeks that work regular 9 to 5's and went to making movies for film geeks that work in the film industry 'only' with Death Proof. I will say that Planet Terror was decent. Machete, Don't, and even Werewolf Women of the SS were good. However, the part of Grindhouse that was the best part of the entire film (and holy shit I can't believe I'm saying THIS) was Eli Roth's 'Thanksgiving'. He nailed it with that one. But holy shit Quentin, what the fuck? I wish I could tell him that I'm happy life is so damn great for him and that I'm sure it's fun to get drunk with your fellow film buddies in Austin, Texas but don't write and film an entire movie that is basically a blow job for that inner circle of your friends. I feel like he betrayed the entire geek community! To be fair, the title sequence was cool; and Kurt's first kill was cool but that was IT. Fuck.
April 10, 2007, 12:27 a.m. CST
by Captain Mal
I was appalled at how bad "Death Proof" was. "Planet Terror" was lots of fun, and the trailers were cute (maybe a little too cute), but speaking as a Tarantino fan, I can no longer defend the guy by saying, "He's never made a bad movie." His half was practically unwatchable. The last ten minutes were okay, but getting there was the worst chore I've experienced in a theatre in a long, long time. Mori really, really needs to answer for this review. I feel betrayed by the best reviewer at AICN.
April 10, 2007, 1:04 p.m. CST
Vern just posted his review and it's well-written with some funnyness on top. He references the "underbelly of the talkbacks" and mentions the infamous DP detrators who called the 2nd batch of girls "cunts" and "dumb bitches." I think his assement of Plant Terror is spot-on, including his breakdown of RR's filmography and filmmaking. He equates PT to Carpenter's Mars debacle rather than this great films like Escape and The Thing. The Freddie Rodriguez rip is nice too - I really couldn't help from thinking this guy was too much of a pretty boy to be a badass. I was surprised to see him call Death Proof a "great film" and think he's holding back a few punches here. He confesses that the structure is "weird" however and that it's a bit "arty" for a grindhouse feature, a la Vanishing Point. My main complaint is that QT splurted for months if not years about how badass this movie was going to be, then unloads an art film for us to stare at in awe like apes grasping the fucking monolith in Kubrick's 2001. I'm really surprised with Vern here. I mean, this is a film that some skinny, bald, elitist film professor will defend in a college class 10 years from now. And that makes me want to shoot myself, b/c this is not an enjoyable movie. Why do I feel that QT is going to shut himself in like Howard Hughes and start making the equivalent of math rock from here on. That's what Death Proof is: a really good math rock album posing as Iron Maiden. Which is kinda an oxymoron. Agree, Vern and TBers?
April 10, 2007, 1:06 p.m. CST
Everybody should read this: http://www.geocities.com/outlawvern/
April 10, 2007, 5:02 p.m. CST
I thought he was great in PT
April 10, 2007, 5:05 p.m. CST
First off, I'm not tired. I had a nap today. Second, I am home. Third, fuck off.
April 10, 2007, 11:14 p.m. CST
dismissing people who claim they wanted to see stuntman mike kill the "bitches" as having problems or how that speaks about their own inner self. if you want to avoid an argument just dont post. and just bc someone wanted them to die doesnt mean you should start throwing out labels. grow up its a movie its fiction man. everyone who wanted the girls to die at the end doesnt hate women and think they are all bitches. in my opinion it would have made the movie better. they set up kurt as this bad ass and then he gets shot in the arm and all of a sudden hes being run off the road and getting his ass whupped. i think most people wanted the girls to die because they were unredeemable just like the earlier set of girls in the movie. and it wasnt bc the "bitches talked too much" it was bc their dialogue was horrible cliched crap. and whoever made the post about the main black girl being a complete stereotype was dead-on. you think qt is a great writer? how bout all her scenes (the argument with zoe, chasing kurt and hitting his ass) how fuckin bland! i guess i have a little respect left for qt bc he didnt drop a "oh no you did'nt" line on us. and of course we get his retread of a diner scene from every damn movie he's made except this time its just a bunch of shit that NO oNE cares about! and it goes on for 30 minutes. no wonder kurt left the diner halfway through. take my advice...leave after planet terror. and finally for real this is it... stop bagging on PT bc it didnt have dialogue or memorable characters or whatever you are complaining about. that was a fucking fun movie. the bruce willis bin laden speech is brilliant. i saw it at the alamo in austin and people actually cheered during pt; DP was a waste of time. so what now mori? i hate women right?
April 11, 2007, 3:24 p.m. CST
I'll admit I liked the Tarantino installment better, but it was all great fun.
April 11, 2007, 3:24 p.m. CST
I'll admit I liked the Tarantino installment better, but it was all great fun.
April 11, 2007, 8:08 p.m. CST
That flip doesn't entirely work, because by nature women do not have as much physical prowess as men. Granted, Zoe could probably beat up a lot of guys, but the raw imagery of seeing a group of men mercilessly beat the snot out of a woman is not going to sit well with any well-adjusted individual in our society. I don't care how tough Zoe's character is, and I don't care how ruthless she was. That's not a double standard. It's simply human nature. Oh, and it's "tack" - not "tact."
March 1, 2008, 5:45 p.m. CST
by barry convex
Why would anybody watch a scum show like Videodrome? Why did you watch it, Mori?
March 4, 2008, 10:13 a.m. CST
by barry convex
Wallace Beery. Wrestling picture. What do you need, a roadmap?