Cool News
These robots are pissed off... check out the new TRANSFORMERS tv spots!!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here... IGN not only got the GRINDHOUSE trailer, but they also nabbed the new TRANSFORMERS TV spot called "Hidden." These giant robots look really pissed off...
CLICK HERE TO SEE THE GIANT ROBOTS IN ACTION!
Then another spot appeared at SectorSeven.org... This one featuring Starscream doing an incredibly cool maneuver. Click on the link below, enter the password FWIFFO and then double click on the red icon in the upper left corner.
CLICK IT HERE FOR THAT ONE!!
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Damn you Michael Bay
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Yes, those TV Spots were awesome, that is Ironhide diving and firing the missle at the end. Here are the direct links: 1 - http://moviesmovies.ign.com/movies/video/article/777/777306/transformersmovie_destiny_033007_qthighwide.mov
2 - http://moviesmovies.ign.com/movies/video/article/777/777272/transformersmovie_hidden_033007_qthighwide.mov
You will have to remove spaces I think -
Fuck IGN. I have to watch an advert to download an advert?!
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ah well-my first second- i'm happy... :-)
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Kurt Russell would approve. In fact, his voice would have been great if Peter Cullen was unavailable.
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That shot of I think starscream? transforming and landing was fucking awesome.
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This film will look good, but will still have terrible dialogue and a poor ending. It'll make a shitload of money and will have pepsi/coke tie-ins to wash down your Big Mac Transformer burgers. As they say... you can't "transform" a turd!!
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and you haters can go fuck, looks to me like Bay has hit the nail on the head but then again according to you dicks the guy cant direct action scenes!!??? are we watching the same fucking clips???? the transforming scenes look to have so much fucking detail in them i cant wait to see this on a big screen.
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Damn you Michael Bay
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I say again-Alan Rickman. Think screaming sheriff of Nottingham mode- "i'm gonna tear your matrix of leadership out with a spoon!"...huh? Anyone feeling me?? ;) Any other suggestions?
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Anyone know about this?
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i think, seen a trailer for this beards ago, still waiting on it poping up on the net, looks cool in a cheesy sfx way, seen a hi-rez trailer last year, the effects are pretty ropey but i think it'll be fun
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...with todays Special Effects technology. Hard to be impressed. I've seen so much by now. The gee whiz factor is like a dry well.
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was pretty spectacular.
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It's as close to Latta as you're gonna get this side of Serkis. And while we're at it, sign Dafoe up for Cobra Commander."I was-sss once-sss a man..."*logging off*
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All you guys need to be happy is robots firing rockets running around at some point in the film. Well that isn't exactly an easy target miss, and by that yard stick it would have been impossible for Bay or any other director to fuck it up. The characterization is bad, you don't care. The designs are weak, you don't care. The human characters are annoying, you don't care. The script sucks, you don't care. It's Michael Bay directing, not only do you not care but you prefer it and think his past films are great. There is no reasoning with logic like that. You just want shit blowed up reeeeel good. Well you get what you want, so congratulations. Actual fans of the Transformers and good genre films in general will continue to be disappointed. You can keep thinking we are pretentious, we will keep pitying you for your awful taste.
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I´m an adult.
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????
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I mean, really, what harm does it do you if people see those trailers and like what they're seeing? For one thing, i am a transformers fan, so please don't sit there and make judgements on what i like and don't like. To be honest, if anyone here deserves pity, it's you pal, with your inability to relax over something as meaningless as a summer movie. I bet you're a real hoot in person.
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Server at work is banning me!!!
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Pretty good, but still cant get over the way Prime looks.
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I accepted a long time ago that the script is a bit mince, so yeah, the action IS what I'm rooting for. Bay is a pretty good controller, and I know that he will do his best to create a film that is action packed. So what? I think The Rock is one of the best action films of the 90s, or ever actually, up there with Die Hard, T2, Raiders of the Lost Ark (not really action film, but DAMN is the action well shot). I like all his films, can even stomach Pearl Harbor. Bad Boys 2 is a disgusting, bloated, foul film, and I love it because THAT fills a space in my movie watching checklist. I have broad taste, and watch a lot of films, old and new... heck, I've been mixing Goddard and Tarkovsky with Schwarzenegger flicks, ITS ALL GOOD. I have hopes that if Transformers is successful, and it will be but it has to take SHIT LOADS to get a sequel, then we will GET a great sequel. A lot of the robot interaction was left for post-production. Some may say that is bad, but hell, I reckon they've done really good so far with character design. Ironhide is gonna be a favourite among the kids, he is a REAL BAD ASS! If it does fail to even thrill, I will be the first to admit it, I loved X-Men and I was literally shocked by how shit X-Men 3 was. But Michael Bay does it for me, there is something in his simplistic ideals that appeals to a part of me. I'm not American but I don't mind the flag waving. I normally hate sentimentality, but the only film that has over-stepped that mark in his filmography is Pearl Harbor. Armageddon is so much fun it's freaky! So yeah, Transformers, as long as the get the dynamics between robots characters correct I'll be happy. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or TMNT, the CGI one, I didn't care much for the plot of "saving the world" but I DID like that they got the characters and their relationship with one another BANG ON THE MONEY! And for that, I may watch it again. TMNT was actually pretty fun, just a little generic in places where it could have been more. But yeah, I'm rambling... box of goodies! FBI, FREEZE SUCKER!!
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haters go back to your caves!
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He says "Creating the Transformers is so graphically intence that if a scene hasthree robots in it, it takes the computers a stunning 38 hours to render a single frame". He also says "Look, the cartoons were so amateur it would look stupid if you actually made that into a model,"...Anyway personaly I think its going to be good fun, and for all you sad sad individuals who piss and moan about flames on Optimus, you can basicaly go and play with your thoughts in a dark corner somwere.
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You realy do come off like a pretentious prat. We get it that you read the fucking script, most of us have, it was not spectacular but it was better than 95% of the Transformer storylines so what is the big deal? I can't stand this crap about "Bay is raping my childhood".....the show FUCKING SUCKED ASS! The film looks to have some great action scenes, which was all we expected, so I am looking forward to it. You can't polish a turd and Transformers was a turd once it hit our TV screens in the 80's.
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So fuck you!
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...likes to get Labeouf'd in his Shia.
Anyone else notice the soud effects used for Optimus changing at the beginning of one video is the same sound as a door opening in the original Doom? I'm sure (maybe) that's not the real sound for the movie, but if it is Michael Bay is a fucknut.
PS: DAMN YOU MICHAEL 'TURDBURGLAR' BAY! -
And I meant the Doom video game. Yes, there was a game before the shitty movie.
GO GO GADGET FLAMING NIPPLES! -
Anyone else remember Silverhawks? It was kinda like THundercats in space. This might be a fun cartoon to turn into a movie franchise. I doubt anyone obsesses over the 'toon as much as Transformers and there's enough material to play with and make a fun space action film - something we haven't had in a while.
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http://www.you tube.com/watch?v=h1xneEZnaM8
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Sure, it won't be the EXACT translation of the original 80's mythology of the characters but it will hopefully be really close. I went back and rewatched several of the episodes and to be honest, they sucked. They were confusing, incomprehensible and some of them, just downright horrible. I may get flamed for this but I honestly don't care. I love the Transformers but let's be honest people, you know as well as I do that the cartoon while classic, has a few rotten eggs in that basket. Want to prove me wrong? I will bring up my first piece of evidence, Transformers the Movie. The 1980's flick while I love this movie, is deeply flawed. From the semi shoddy animation to the really shitty dialogue for many of the character, not to mention the killing off of some of the more beloved characters, up to and including Optimus and Ironhide. Some characters weren't even given the benefit of a death scene. Wheeljack comes to mind.
Second piece of evidence: KREMZYK. That's all I need to say. anyone rooted in the old show will remember this horrendous piece of shit of an episode.
That's it. I am going back to bed.
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You really are a pretentious prat. Tranformers cartoon = mediocre writing, 2D characters, blocky unrealistic designs, 30min toy commercial. Transformers movie = mediocre writing, 2D characters, whack but realistic 'alien' designs, 2hr toy commercial. I really can't understand how you possibly won't enjoy this movie if you're a 'real' fan of Transformers.
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How could you watch those trailers and complain about this movie!!!!
God talkbackers can bitch about ANYTHING.pretentious doesn't even come close. -
"we will keep pitying you for your awful taste."
What a condescending cunt you are. Jesus. -
It might be watchable.
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These robots are the bigger cousins of where the *Batteries Not Included lifeforms come from.
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Bay needs to hire some animators who know about physics. The transformation of that plane-thing looked ridiculous. Looks like it weighs about 20 pounds, even with the concrete crushing effects.
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I agree one hundred percent with Dr_Zoidberg above. IndustryKiller, come on. "We will keep pitying you for your awful taste." I mean ... just ... come on. Movies are escapes from reality, not concentrated injections of it. Moreover, not everything is going to be -- nor is meant to be -- "Children of Men."And I will again point out that Bay is good at what he does, and he does quite a lot quite well. Yes, his ideas are simplistic. Yes, he is primarily a visual director who attacks things in a very literal way. He has no subtlety. There is a place in this world for over-the-top, overwrought, bombastic fantasies ... and Bay does those VERY well. Since that's what I know he's going to deliver, I'm not unhappy about the changes in design. Since I know what kind of character dynamics Bay's films usually dish out, I'm unconcerned about the script. I AM concerned about the future of fantasy and science-fiction when we live in a world where people take themselves so seriously that "cheesey" is no longer a welcome relief from the relentless onslaught of poetry (both good and bad) that we would all be forced to sit through if pretentious, coffee-house dwelling, Sundance-going, "Ooh look at me, I've read the script!" people like YOU ran the show.
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Physics is a part of reality. Once you mention the words "giant robots", reality is pretty much out the window...
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This looks really good. I still think the robots look a little too "busy"- that is, they transform to a point where you can barely recognize what they are in their vehicle form. But that clip of Starscream (presumably) landing on the bridge was just crazy cool. And Shia LeBeof or however you spell his name is really good in movies like this. AND it's got Aaron Pierce. What more do you want?
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That's what I was trying to say when I said the robots look too "busy"- they just look like a mish mash of parts in their robot forms. Surely it would have been easier to just stick with the basic concepts in the 80's toyline, wouldn't it? Like big ass fenders for the legs, arms with wheels on it, etc. I don't really see what these robots transform into when they are robots. And that's part of the fun.
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They do get to a point where you can't recognize their vehicle forms. But then again, that might be a good thing. The idea is that they "Transorm". If they're vehicle form is unseeable when they're robots, then their robot forms are unknowable when they're in vehicle form. Thus, they really are robots in disguise!
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Understanding physics is an important part of making the audience buy the effects they are seeing. Why waste millions on designing giant robots if you're going to make them walk around like they're made of cardboard in one scene and a couple of tons in another?
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You make a good point, and yes I'm reaching here, but perhaps the physics simulations needed to do that -- given the already complex rendering tasks Bay is talking about -- might have even pushed the computers at ILM over the edge? I mean I know their farms must be huge, but even so...
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Well said. Also, I want to borrow Industrymill's time machine, since he/she has seen the movie already. I was sold on it movie when they first announced it was to be live-action. Making up your own mind is awesome.
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Stop talking out of your fucking arse please.
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This is where the pretentious label comes from. 99.9 percent of the people who see that starscream shot will think it's cool as hell. Then you'll have this tiny percentage loudly proclaiming why it isn't cool just for the sake of complaining. How the hell do they get the physics right of a jet fighter flying at supersonic speed UNDER A BRIDGE that is changing into its robot form while spinning up in the air and landing on its 'feet'. Please explain to us all how the real physics works in that situation. Dammit… calling you a pretentious cunt would give cunts the world over a bad name.
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RE: Mar 31st, 2007 05:44:33 AM. Well put. Thanks.
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These robots do not look pissed off. They look completely unreadable. I mean physically there is no way to distinguish one part of their body from another. They just look a bit of a mess.
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is apparently named Industrykiller. Obvious much?
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that is all.
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Dudes - I am there for the action not the story. I'm there to fill the void of big shit demolishing other big shit with some little shit getting stomped along the way. All of you screaming about physics and such .... C'MOM! Animals talk in Pixar movies (as do cars, ahem). Lquid metal men come from the future to perform abortions. Robot planes stop on a dime. WTF? If for you, Transformers unlocked the door to hair growth, nocturnal emmisions, and the sudden assumption that tits are good, then don't see the movie. I'm there for awsome action and groan induced story lines. i will be 13 again. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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God I hated Bluegrass, but this shit was so tight to me when I was a kid. What a great look. That theme song was so cool when I was young tool. Now that I am an old tool, I still love it. Just for you.http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=OMBfm3vUB6Mhttp://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=YWpHRSD1Lh8&mode=related&search=
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On the "Destiny" track, is that Starscream transforming and flipping up on the bridge? That one image has got me psyched for the film, after all this time. Can't wait. Dammit! Why'd I have to watch those fuckin clips? Now I gotta wait!
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Damn, you sound like my clone. I haven't read a better post explain why every movie does not have to be a 4 hour character development drama since I posted my response in the Transformers poster talkback. Michael Bay's movies have the highest production values I have ever seen. They all have amazing music and incredible style. I compare his movies to moving paintings in an art gallery. I literally try to watch every hollywood movie, and I judge movies on the genre they are in. Bay makes amazing acion movies, because he knows how to create spectacle. Every shot looks like it took hours to get right. I also previously posted my complaints to the original series and nobody came to the defense, because apparently they have no grounds for their complaining. I recently read all of the Transformers comics, and the Marvel series in particular was garbage, so I don't know why everyone is so protective of their Transformers character development. Every issue introduced at least three new characters to sell new toys where it became impossible to keep track of even half the characters. Once the Headmasters angle started, the comics were nearly unreadable and I like comic books. Plus Prime is supposed to be a bad ass and he gets destroyed every twenty issues as well as in the movie. If this movie has Prime wasting everyone without getting blown up, then already it will be a better Transformers story.
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Well said, I couldn't have said it better myself if I tried. Stick nipples on the Batsuit or make Han shoot first and everyone round here screams bloody murder until they're blue in the face. But apparently Transformers and its fans who want to see a good movie don't count. So when they make Prime and Megatron look like utter shit and churn out a worthless script it's all OK because it's just a giant robot movie (with explosions!) and that's all we should care about.
Anyone who thinks Transformers was just about giant robots fighting each other (with exploshuns!) never liked it or watched it properly in the first place. Bay's film will make Batman & Robin look like high art. -
Somehow I don't think Hasbro has the balls to make spinoff toys that are one tenth as cool as what's on screen.
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transformers are more than just piles of scrap metal forming into a car. The concept in the look of these characters should have been this ROBOTS FIRST, VEHICLES SECOND The look of the robot modes have been seriously compromized here. What realistic being would do that? Just for a disguise? The robot modes should look far more cohesive and contained , think the EVOLUTION of a robot.The vehicle modes should look like the cars they are mimicing but slightly off, sharper curves,something doesn't look quite right about them. Worse of all is that they dropped one of the coolest pieces of mythology from the story, the fact that the Transformers had been crashed on Earth for 4 million years.
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Nope. He can defend himself just fine. You lovers of this tripe still miss what this movie could have been. Bay does loud obnoxious action like no one else. I personally, speaking only for myslef, think the action scenes that we have been privy to look hyperkinetic. Cool robot action. The designs, the story and the lies are what are keeping me from spending my money. They had a chance to update something flawed and blew it. Everyone has preferences and this is simply not for me. I am passionate about the source material and all that it offered. The writers and Hasbro blew it. Bay is a non-issue after the fact. People that complain have a different vision then what Dreamworks is shoving at us. Fuck the cartoon and fuck the toys. I want a fine movie that does not lean on loud visual and audio SFX.
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in the hidden trailer
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But Kurt Russel was laughing, so it was ok.
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You say…
The characterization is bad, you don't care.
I say I don’t know since I haven’t seen the movie yet so I can’t possibly have an opinion on the subject unless I am being predisposed to hating it from the moment I heard of it.
You say…
The designs are weak, you don't care.
I say they are far from weak! They’re actually really cool looking. They just aren’t your cartoon block characters that would have looked like shit in a live action movie. You just don’t like them, it’s your personal feelings…so somehow a movie has personally offended you and you’re angry and want the world to know it.
You say…
The human characters are annoying, you don't care.
I say I don’t know since I haven’t seen the movie yet so I can’t possibly have an opinion on the subject unless I am being predisposed to hating it from the moment I heard of it.
You say…
The script sucks, you don't care.
I say I don’t know since I haven’t seen the movie yet so I can’t possibly have an opinion on the subject unless I am being predisposed to hating it from the moment I heard of it. YES…I did read the EARLY DRAFT of the script. Same as you did. The difference is I understand that it was an EARLY DRAFT. The overall story from it they have kept and it didn’t suck at all. Things like actual spoken lines are changed over and over…even into the editing…so you don’t know what the final result will be.
You say… It's Michael Bay directing, not only do you not care but you prefer it and think his past films are great. There is no reasoning with logic like that. You just want shit blowed up reeeeel good.
I say that who did you think would direct a Transformers Movie? Francis Ford Coppola??? Maybe you had your hopes up for Scorsese. Be fucking THANKFUL it isn’t UWE BOIL and MOVE THE FUCK ON!!!!
You say…Actual fans of the Transformers and good genre films in general will continue to be disappointed.
I say that the total dollars from “actual transformers fans” will total into the hundreds of dollars, while the general movie going public that isn’t 40ish, single, and playing with toys will be totaling millions.
and the best part…the truth you can’t admit but know to be true…YOU’LL BE THERE OPENING WEEKEND WON’T CHA BITCH!!!!!
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For a couple of 30 second spots, I have to say, they're not too shabby. A great action shot of Starscream with a nice beginning upwards pan of Bumblebee - it looks cool! (Did anyone notice the VW Bug in the car lot???) Granted, these spots are NOT trailers so they move fast and don't really give you too much. Which is to say, they're no different that half a million other TV spots.Now, I want you guys to watch this Talkback closely. Watch the "Roll Call of Hate" descend on this discussion as it did in the One-Sheet TB. It's so predictable that it's really not even funny.The hate on this film is officially insane. I'm convinced, now more than ever, that what the Haters really wanted (although they won't admit it) was a full-on recreation of the G1 cartoon. Realism and other Transformer mythology/canon be damned. The fact that they're not getting their box/cartoon designs, they've suddenly awakened themselves to the concepts of film direction, design aesthetic, characterization, physics, acting, and whether or not a robot's eyes should be rectangular. Of course, NONE of these things were an issue during the run of the cartoon. But you put a leaked draft script in their hands and suddenly they're telling YOU what YOUR opinion should be.Yes, it's all quite ricockulous. All the more so because they are now simply hating out of spite.
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If the we're supposed to ignore shitty story, lame characters, etc and sit our asses down in the theaters based on the special effects alone, then they should fucking well make sure the effects are worth it. Plenty of other animation studios get it right. Check out any animated film by Pixar for starters. Why even make Transformers live action if it's nothing more than a fucking cartoon?
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Cause he was a bad ass,and the millitary guys in E.T carried walkie talkies instead of guns because you can only defeat an E.T by confusing it with walkie talkie lingo such as roger,10-4 and over and out.Anyways I think industrykiller was just upset because like alot of people on this site he really wants to see a great Transformers movie. I think Bay could pull this off,same as Favreau can pull off Ironman,sometimes you just gotta cross your fingers and hope for the best. I wish I could have read this script everyone is talking about.
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Man after watching that clip on the SectorSeven.org and the Hidden video I am definitely more psyched to see this movie. I am confident this movie will deliver to most of the mass and I emphasize most as the ones who will be disappointed will be the hard core fans. All I have to say is this.....more than meets the eye...to all the hard core fans.
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I had my doubts, but after seeing Shia in the "Hidden" preview, the first thing that struck me was, wow, he reminds me of a young Harrison Ford, and I can totally see what Spielberg saw in Shia when casting him for Indy IV. Now if only he'll listen to my requests to cast Judi Dench as Marcus Brody's widow ...
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That looked cool as hell. Let's hope Michael "Armageddon, Bad Boys 2" Bay doesn't F this up. I have faith since Speilberg is involved.
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It has nothing to do with my childhood memories or that I want a scene by scene recreation of season one of Transformers, it's because Michael Bay is a crappy director. He's made maybe two decent films his entire career and I don't think he has what it takes to adapt any kind of franchise. If this was the Care Bears (something I have no emotional attachement to...seriously, I don't, they were my sister's toys) directed by Michael Bay I would say the same thing. It all comes down to the fact he's not a good director. If you like his films, fine, go see the movie, I'll probably wait for DVD.
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I also had my doubts about a Transformers movie, but after seeing the previews ... it actually looks pretty entertaining. Thankfully, Spielberg didn't listen to my requests for Judi Dench to be cast as a Decepticon ...
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Whether or not the Transformers themselves look cool is not as big of an issue as how irritating the humans are going to be. In all the footage we have seen, the moment the guy and girl appear on screen I am full of dread. Why do we need human leads in this movie at all? They were always the worst thing in the cartoons, they were always the worst thing in giant monster movies, and they were the worst thing in Aliens vs. Predator. Do we really need humans to help us relate to giant transforming robots fighting each other?? Just put some random military guys in there ineffectively shooting them, running away, and getting squashed. That's all the humans we need.I am willing to bet that the first time the male lead sees the car transform he says, "dude, that was sooooo awesome!" If so I'll be the guy in the theater yelling, "You suck!"
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The fact that these sad individuals think we're wrong for liking what we see. Anyway, yes, you're right. The only reason these mooks are pouring their hatred out like this is because it doesn't look EXACTLY like G1 cartoons. They can deny it but if you read the firsts posts from the first TF talkbacks you'll see that was their primary concern. They even used links to pictures of TOYS...to make their point.When they were laughed out the room it became an issue over the script. A script which was months out of date. That then became the lynchpin of their whole campaign...since..saying the film doesn't look like their toys was resulting in the lambasting they truly deserved. And here, now there's more stuff out there, we have KillDozer, which is obviously another screen name for one of the regular fuckwits, trying to talk about physics...a subject which no one wanted to talk about when it was pointed out exactly why you couldn't have exact replicas of the toys.It's hilarious. I cannot wait to see what other rediculous faults they can find with this movie and it'll be even more enjoyable when Transformers makes a killing at the Box office despite their protestations it won't make a dime.Actually, what was funny was someone accusing me of being Don Murphy in an earlier talkback. Talk about nutcases.
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We need humans in this movie since most people who will go see it aren't repressed 12 year olds with the inability to bond or emote with real people.
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"Its already been broughten". Jamie Pressly had a cameo as a decipticon hologram!
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That starscream one is great.
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One of the arguments I've seen repeated numerous times is the idea that the robot designs look the way they do because they had to go for more realism....... that simply doing robot designs that looked closer to the original cartoons/toys would have looked terrible. The idea being of course that the poor animation of the 80's included robot designs that could not translate to better techniques.
I have to say that I disagree with this. I don't think it's impossible to create up-to-date and more realistic robot designs that are still recognizable as what people remember as Transformers. The primary evidence I would point to is the robot designs for the Japanese anime "Macross Zero", which came out a few years ago, but featured some of the state of the art in CGI mecha animation.
Macross Zero featured transforming planes, just like the original Macross 20 years before (and also seen elsewhere as the first third of "Robotech"), but the level of detail in the robot and plan modes was much more realistic and detailed.
More importantly though, the robot mode of the Valkyries (or "Veritechs" for you Robotech fans) was still recognizably similar to the robot modes of the original Macross designs.
So I think it is absolutely possible to do something that looks much better, but doesn't completely throw away a pre-existing design or concept.
I think this new Transformers movie looks OK, but I have to agree with others about the designs of the robot modes. It's not that I think they are bad per se, but most of them just seem very non-descript......... frankly perhaps it is that they do have TOO much going on; I get a bit of a sense of information overload with the robot designs, but there is this extra complexity in all of the robot designs that makes many of them sort of indistinguishable as anything more than just big giant hunks of metal and gears and wires and so-forth.
A lot of the personality in the Transformers were their individualism, and frankly, the idea that even in their robot mode you could easily recognize each one and what vehicle they had been. -
must be one of the big money shots of the movie, because it's been in almost every trailer or clip.
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The effects look absolutely AMAZING and will bring HUGE crowds on opening day. I'm sure of it.
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Someone had to say it. Oh, and... Bless You Michael Bay.
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Via LIVE. I do want them. And I do want to share them with my friends.
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Apologies. I got all excited there for a sec. Columbo I am not.
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All I can say is, hold onto your butt. It's gonna get a lot more heated as we draw closer to the premier.The fact that someone accused you of being Donny Murphy probably has something to do with your screenname. I think DM's messageboard avatar is a single, seeing eye. As if!
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What's up you crazy bastard? I really couldn't tell you what ol' DocPaz thinks of TFers. He may not give a shite. But if he's got something to say about it, I'm sure he will do so.
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I don't see what's with all the comoplaints. sure megatron should've been closer in design to the cartoon and yeah I think the robots should have more of the human tryp face, but the movie's already done now, so oh well we have to live with it, but it still looks damn good.
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Me like
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No sweat. I don't write nearly as concise as IndustryKiller! and I have only just begun posting frequently. Even though I don't want to see this I enjoy the "debates" and some of the name calling is down right funny. It's always interesting how others view the medium of film, but I do tire of the word pretentious being thrown around. Be well.
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Indeed.
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I couldn't care less if the robots look/transform like the TV series. I just want a live action Giant Robot movie that looks better than a Saturday morning cartoon.
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here, here
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... is because the film was announced as Gen 1 and Don Murphy spouted his fat gob off inviting all the fans onto his forum to tell him what they wanted to see in the film. The film was announced as a Gen 1 film, they even had a red truck under a tarpaulin just like Prime. Then all of a sudden Michael Bay appears on the scene and we've got flames, wrong colour schemes, robots arriving on Earth today (instead of 4 million years ago) and TFs that look nothing like Gen 1. All the fan's requests for maintaining the look of the original designs was thrown out the window. Just ask Murphy about that and he turns into a real mean asshole.
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I'm sure us "haters" will be accused of "crying out of the room" or some such bs because we havne't hardely made our presence felt yet. "Lovers" you talk about us being pretentious, but inyou're ire toward us that are skeptical based on a number of things, well pot, this is kettle and you're black how many times have we've gone over it, the leaked script, yes thigns have changed but according to Bay himself, the "beats reamin the same" and the cenes that have been seen in trailers and through set reports confirmed scenes in the movie. You can get a real good idea about what's going on from an early draft, I remember reading Dogma's 5th script and it really wasn't much different then Kevin Smith's 7th shooting script, I knew what scenes were where adn what lines were where, mostly it involved a lot of cutting things out or modifying things...but the BEATS, the SCENES, the CHARTERZATION was the same...from those that have read the script have seen the trailers and have read the set visits it's the same thing design-listen I know and I think most of us "haters" know we can't having Megatron turninging into a gun or that we are asking for Starscreams cockpit be around his chest so you know he turns into an air plane-those are neccassary changes and one I don't think is bad, but what I do think is bad is that the Decpeticons espically look like big piles of junk thrown togather, you can't even hardly tell what it's supposed to be, look at Scorpnock for an example of that espically thirdly there has been seirous basterdazation of charters, specifically Megatron (he's Optimus brother and they ruled Cybertron togather, what!), Bumblebee's lack of voice things like that--it's like maing a Flintstones movie without Yabba Dabba Doo-a Jetson's movie without Rosie saying "Mr J" or George not working at Spacely Sprockets. Look at the He-Man movie, they added unneccassary human chars that didn't have anything to do with cannon (at least TF is keeping the Whitwicky (sp?) family), and not respecting the source material, the charterzations were all wrong, ahh but who cares it's a toy movie--look how utterly craptastic that movie was and is, He-Man sucked balls and turned a really cool possible franchise with a built in fan base of kids into nothing! They even had a good cast but it was in the STORY that He-Man turned bad, it's the same thing here, it's not neccassarily in the desgins (although like I said i hate that the decepticons look like crap) it's in the STORY-not the script but the STORY remember "lovers" Bay siad the story didn't change that the same beats were there
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excellent points that I didn't bring up was murphy's snwing us and then hating us
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The original cartoons are ok but I don't have a blind love of them. The trailers look ok.The doubts that I have is with Michael Bay. The best film he has done is The Rock which to me is a very average film. All the other films I have seen of his are absolutely fucking terrible, just pieces of unwatchable garbage. If all of a sudden Bay manages to suddenly kick this trend of directing absolutely shit films and manages something even average again, then I will be massively shocked.Someone earlier said something about this film hopefully being as much fun as ID4. God I hope not because there was nothing to enjoy at all about that film
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even relate to them - the designs are so off putting. What is all that talk about the eyes changing when you can't even tell what end is up on those things?
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movie, and who don't read message boards about how most the flick doesn't involve the transformers, and all the other changes...
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welcome to the fight my fellow "hater" good to see same...familiar faces around here not filling up 100 posts full of love
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All his films have a great look that lend themselves to being great trailers and commercials. Where he consistently drops the ball is with his storytelling. If all you want is eye candy then this should fit the bill. If you want escapist entertainment with some intelligence and character development you need to look elsewhere.
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and buy the videogame since that seems to have what you want. Actually, I shouldn't slam videogames because sometimes they're better than movies these days. If all you need are effects and explosion in a story, I hope movies are not made for you.
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poster's one. As soon as the posts slow down someone should say something hateful or attack a TBer just to keep it going.
Anyways, I think I am more excited about this movie than the rest of the summer movies just for the fact that this is something new. Other than ratatollie (?) and grindhouse, everything else is a sequel.
Who would win in a fight optimus or king kong? I say optimus. -
the cartoon's. Bay can bag on the designs all he wants, but no one can tell what his robots are supposed to be, they look like hunks of metal who destroy things, no personality comes across in the designs (except for Prime). This is how sci-fi is now. No imagination, but instead this false realism.
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I thought the Transformers movie looked like shit, but Kurt was laughing so it must be OK.
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know what these guys are capable of I think we had no doubts the animation would be slick. However, as a Transformers movie, it has very little to do with the property on which it was based. The script made this apparent, but seeing it animated just seals the deal.
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I totally agree, I don't think anyone ever doubted the CGI work, it all goes back to the story which SUCKS and the major liberties taken with char. all while telling us "this is G1, This is G1, we want your input"
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and not going along with the crowd. Yep, sounds about right these days!
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so I can be a part of the herd just to say that you are pretentious, even though I am not going to address any one of the points you made. :)
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So you're saying the movement of those Robots...don't look better than a saturday morning cartoon? Explain,.
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the "lovers" in their accusations of us "haters" being pretentious have become pretentious themselves
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coming on here and mouthing off like a dick and basically telling people THEY are wrong to have an opinion different to you. Something IndustryKiller blatantly did. So yes, he is pretentious.
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I say no. I mean, if the junk trawls were hand drawn by the cartoon animators, I'd say the original iconic designs would win out? How about that contest? If you try to say that looks like the characters that this film is supposed to be based on you're full of it.
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maybe Bay and murphy when describing what they wanted to the desgingers got the Junkions and and Decepticons mixed up
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in a bubble, it's not like there hasn't been plenty of that here from the other side.
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It's all very well to have an opinion, i'm not arguing that. But when IndustryKiller starts writing shit like "pity you" etc..then he's going to get shit for his trouble. I think what you'll find is that most people who have singled him out havent done so for not liking the movie; rather for just acting like a prick. It was certainly enough to get me to post about him.
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but you didn't address superninja's point, there has been other people from YOUR camp that have the exact same attitude
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That when bummble bee is in car form he is normal car size and when he transforms he is like 70 feet tall. Now i know its about giant robots but how can you make a 70 foot robot out of a 15 to 20 foot car????????
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a valid point that namecalling takes you off topic and I'm not going to argue with that. People should not let this stuff get personal.
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i think, Bay or someone said that B-bee will be about 20 ft tall appx
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if that is what you are looking for. Clearly.
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Not that i've read on this talkback. Anyway, haven't you ever heard of the saying 'turn the other cheek'? I mean, it's a bit late to bleet on about people saying the exact same thing as IK AFTER he's been pulled for acting like a dick. I mean, how old are you? The old "he did it first" doesn't wash at school, it won't wash here.
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BumbleBee is HUGE. Megatron just looks imposing and gigantous being suspended in those wires. And oh man, the PLANE BOSS, THE PLANE. Yeah, remember that song Harry posted about a fanboy singing the theme song from the transformers-toon movie about Michael Bay? Yup, this flick is going to rule.
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is known for being a place of general disagreement, passionate discussion namecalling...i always say we're the badboys of the Internet movie site--AICN doesn't always report the "cool news" that people send in but rather the news that Mori, Quint, Harry, etc al find interesting. This site is more aobut the personalities as much as movies
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I'd have said the same thing to anyone who posts such condescending shit wether they were in the same camp as me or not. I just take exception to people posting crap like that. Shit gets said on a lot of talkbacks but that's just plain out of order....
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Would someone please tell me why everyone bitching about this movie is such a film connoisseur?
"It doesn't have enough character"
"Why does it have to have focus around humans?"
"Every movie Michael Bay makes is terrible"
Jesus fucking christ. Give me a break. First, IT'S A MOVIE ABOUT GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS. This movie has one purpose, and one purpose only. BLOW SHIT UP. A LOT. There isn't a director in Hollywood better at that than Bay. Secondly, Bay's movies are no works of art, but most of them generate ass loads of cash. So, if they are so fucking terrible, how come most of them make $200 million or more? Someone must be going to see them! And for the record I was a kid when the original cartoons were on. I had a shit load of the toys and loved every moment of the cartoons when I was a kid. At first I questioned some of the changes they made to the robots in this movie, but after seeing the trailers, my problems with it melted away. Then again, I don't own those toys anymore or jack off to the DVD Box sets nightly.
The bottom line is that you whiners about this movie have already decided its crap, before even seeing it. If you are so predisposed to hate it, why do you even post on these boards about this movie? You are obviously such film connoisseurs that you are above having to watch something like this anyway. You've completely made up your mind that you are not going to see it. If you aren't going to see it, why don't you all just fuck off until your next boring as shit PT or Wes Anderson movies come out? Then at least you can all talk about how they are the only ones today that make "Real Films" and how "Wes Anderson can just make me feel emotionally moved when I watch his films." Ugghh.
There's a difference between films and movies. If you are into films, get the fuck off a talk back about a transformers movie.
Me? I'm gonna have my ass kicked by GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS BLOWING MASS AMOUNTS OF SHIT UP. Who's with me?!?!?!? -
I jumped on you and I shouldn't have, I wasn't really defending IK's posts as I was trying to point out the hypcroisy of the apolgoists of this film (who haven't seen it either-how do you know it's going to "RAWK" or some bs-again not directed at you ASE but others on this site) of calling out someone who does the exact same thing they do
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with you up there, but I was. However, that does not change my high level of disappointment at the direction of this film.
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Seriously....with all the money and the CGI being thrown at this movie,they couldnt AT LEAST make the Robot modes resemble the cartoons or the toys? These dont look like Transformers at all-more like Bionacles or,as someone already pointed out,the things from batteries not included.
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I seem to remember reading a rant on this site sometime in the past couple years wherein the Secret of Geek Movie-Making was explained. I believe it was specifically in the context of a comic book film, but it applies here as well. The secret is that you can make any changes you want, as long as you make a movie that is true to the SPIRIT of the source material. Every single piece of news I have seen regarding Transformers (with the exception of casting Peter Cullen, and even for that, they made him audition) leads me to believe that Michael Bay simply does not GET Transformers. Which is kind of funny, considering that there isn't really all that much to get. From what I have so far seen, the movie has none of the elements that made the cartoon enjoyable to me, and I'm not talking about the designs. Yes, I hate the designs, but that's because they have no personality, and are too busy; not because they don't match G1. They look like what you'd get if you rolled a katamari through a junkyard.
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I already explained my problem: the animation looks cartoonish, i.e. like something out of a Saturday morning cartoon. The robots didn't seems to be realistically interacting with the environment in a bunch of the shots.
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blowing stuff up. Robotjox was that movie, and there are other movies that are that movie. Transformers is sci-fi with a mythology.
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see backland7's post above as an example of what I was talking about
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point that there is no sense of weight in some places - it appears inconsistent. They do not really seem to be sentient, they just seem like automatons, that is always tough to pull off with CGI, but it really would've helped to give the robots more human qualities so you could identify with them (as the cartoon did).
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to edit out the entire story and anything having to do with humans. I like the robots jumping around and blowing stuff up though. This looks like it could be a fun double feature, or a cool "I'll buy a ticket for something other than Transformers and then see Transformers". Hey baby, wanna kill all humans?
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As an 3D animator myself i'm a little incredulous as to how you can draw those conclusions from a 50 second preview. From what i've seen it's possiblY ILM's best work to date; they need something like this under their belt to put them back on equal footing with WETA.
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one must assume the producers and screenwriters never did, either. They're so clearly the secondary characters in the story. If you were putting them up front and attempting to create a sophsisticated character like Gollum for each of them (admittedly a daunting task, but again THE WHOLE POINT of a TF movie), we would not have these designs and humans as the main characters.
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...and still make a shitload of money? Can't we have/demand both?
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It's very good. It just looks nothing like Transformers. The cartoon worked because they TF are essentially human in character, but giant robots. That's what drove the whole stories - they were individuals and the stories were personal in nature. The movie is very far from this, clearly. As a designer, would you make something this complicated the main character in a story or would you just use it to drive the plot like Bay did?
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is being a whiny bitch and telling people we must hate Transformers because you say so. I am not delude, Michael Bay is a average director when it comes to acting and drama, but Bay is perfect for a movie which only needs to deliver action. Will it win any oscars? No....maybe for special effects. But it should have some great action sequences, a somewhat serviceable plot and everyone can levae pretending their car is a transformer. I hate using this word...but I really do think alot of you are "Haters" and are only "hating" because you were invested to some stupid cartoon from the 80's....its amazing how many TB's you ave filled saying the same crap, especially when you see you are losing the public vote and most people are lookng forward to it.
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I'll make it brief. I do 3D animation for a living. I used to work for a games studio in the UK but we got sold off to Ubisoft and basically all of us got put out of work. The point i made in the post that never appeared was, as an animator, i can't really fault what i've seen so far. It's extremely complex work; nevermind taking 38 hours to render a frame, it'll take many more hours than that to animate it convincingly. From the fleeting glimpses i've seen so far, i personally cannot fault the work done by ILM on this project; it's sorely needed by them to put them back on a level footing with WETA. However, those shots will more than likely be still going through alot of work right up to the movie comes out so, like i tell everyone, making an assesment of the animation at this stage is a little pointless since it will, more than likely, not be a true reflection of the end product. I can get people not liking the designs, but please don't criticise the work...it's pretty fucking awesome from where i'm sitting. Jesus, i wanted to make this brief and it wound up longer than my original post
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I do respond directly to points brought up, your just pissed that my beliefs are different than yours SO THEY MUST BE WRONG.I also try and point out the fact that most people think of transformers as "those robots that turn into trucks and stuff". They do not even come close to thinking..."well G1 Transformers are of cybertronian decent and have the ... blah blah blah" The reason I get into the mix on this is the amount of pure hatred spewed towards this movie based on a love of a fucking toy commercial from 30 years ago. Can’t you see that all this is now just a redo of those toy commercials for a whole new slew of kids. They made all the designs different TO SELL MORE TOYS.Can’t any of you see how fucking childish and yes... pretentious you come off bashing a movie this way.You don’t like the design changes, yes? Didn’t your beloved cartoon change the designs themselves several times? You didn’t bitch about them then.OK…now it’s time for you all to reply without any reasoning what-so-ever and just complain because “calling it a toy commercial is doing it a disservice since it is so much more than that”.No it’s not. It was a commercial to sell toys first!What…in 20 years are you going to be bitching because the “Caveman Movie” changed the actors who originally played the cavemen in the commercials so its just not right…..oh shit….that’s two talk backs down!
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the Transformers because of the reemagining of this movie? Superman Returns and Smallville, for instance, have done damage to the Superman myth. People now think Superman is a whiney Abercrombie model and/or selfish celebrity with a messiah complex.
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I love your posts. You never rely on name calling. Strong. Do you happen to live in the Pheonix Arizona area and frequent a shop by the name of Atomic Comics? Yes or no.
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be typing this. I'm sorry, but you're just incorrect that people view Transformers so superfically. It's part of pop culture. People know who the main characters are and they know elements of the story. There is a reason it has survived so long. Just because you don't doesn't mean that is not the case for a whole lot of other people. G1 is the most successful part of the Transformers franchise and always has been.
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I'd say no more damage than any other incarnation of TF after G1. While i have fond memories of the toys as a kid, i was an avid collector of the comics until i was 15 or so. The comic had mythos that, imo, cannot be beaten. I don't feel threatened by this movie since it's not going to destroy my appreciation of the comics at all. I'm eager to see a live action movie. Sure, it's not going to be the live action movie i wanted to see when i was a kid but..you know..i've kinda been aware that there'd have to be some changes made to realise the franchise on screen. You never know, they might ask the mighty Simon Furman to pen a sequel.
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I live in the Los Angeles area.
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It's unfortunate he had to ruin something I grew up with. Bay doesn't have a vision, all he sees is fire and destruction. Oh, what potential this film franchise had, then dreamworks/paramount had to go and hire megalomaniac bay
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much, how could you possibly say this film has any relation to that? It is reductive focusing almost entirely on the human characters. The TF are reduced to a special effect. 1) What is the point of that,and 2) frankly, how is that "new" in any way, shape or form?
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What i'm saying is i'm not that bothered. It won't destroy my love for the comic in any way, shape or form. I'm not losing sleep over it. To put the movie i'd want to see on the screen it'd need to be 7 hours long. It'd make a good tv show though. Anyway, you never know, i could go and see this movie and decide it's a huge pile of shit. But i won't draw any conclusions until i've seen it.
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became something complex and wonderful. If the toy commercial/cartoon is your only frame of reference that's just fine. The writers didn't look beyond the toy commercial mentality. There's much more there and begging to be told. Why is not reasonable to want more of a concept that more potential than what is presented via this film?
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it's an important point to make because Hollywood tends to destroy good mythology. And the money made from movies overrides all other things unless they are defended intellectually. I think the original myths tend to be the strongest and the most worthy of adaptation and I think that is something worth argueing for. It's incredibly important if you want good superhero or fantasy and sci-fi films because that is exactly what drives them. What we are getting instead is a bunch of pretty CGI with empty characters and poor story. With the advanced in technology, they should be making better films, but they're not.
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I do not think that they aren't a part of pop culture, just not such a big part as to merit this kind of hatred.Do yourself a favor and click over to the Geico Caveman talkback and have a read. Tell me your not shaking your head and crying for humanity by the time you get halfway down the page.That's how I feel reading the constant transformers talkback spewings.I just can't believe the stupidity behind the postings. It's a Toy commercial here verses an insurance comercial there.
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not merely having an adaptation as though we've been thrown a bone. We will be having to pay for it.
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Ha ha, no interesting the caveman talkback! LOL.
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Hollywood doesn't care about making better films. NO ONE GOES TO SEE THEM. (Kiss Kiss Bang Bang/Momento/Pan's/Black Snake Moan) They want to make MONEY MAKERS (The Animal/Wild Hogs/Night at the Museum)
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Kojima says "I am the SO pissed!!!"
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it, I'm still at work and can't watch this for another 3 hours. It's kiling me. Did it look cool? I bet it did. Any Transformers voices?
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was passed on to comic book writers and illustrators, and cartoon writers and animators that actually flushed out distinguisable characters and stories that people enjoyed. What is so hard to understand about that? Lots of creative people worked to make Transformers and beloved franchise. Just because the STORIES were currated in an effort to sell toys, doesn't mean they were bad(or good).
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to this movie. One way or another the bastards out there that didn't see that movie will be able to experience small sprinklings of it in this movies release.
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means an entire film has been knocked out of the park?
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Michael Bay looks like he nailed it. That must really hurt you "lore" nerds deep down. I loved, loved, loved Transformers as a kid but I certainly don't revere the sanctity of the source material like I would with something like The Book of the New Sun or Watchmen.
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have made up thier minds already. I am really loking forward to this. If you dont like it then dont go.
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The robots look great, but I have the feeling that most of the movie is going to be focused on actors looking very serious and running around--in other words, boring padding that works against fan interest. Maybe they're approaching this like "Independence Day", but personally, I don't need my giant-robots-invade-Earth films to be 'humanized' so I can 'relate' to the story. But I suppose if they want anyone besides guys to see the movie, concessions have to be made. :) As for whether the robots have too little personality--they do look a bit "busy" in their designs, but then again, so far we've mostly seen shots of either the transforming process (a concept which all those not familiar with the product need to see demonstrated) or flurries of action. We really can't tell whether they have "personality" or not until we see long/slow/closeup shots or quieter moments, none of which we've seen yet.
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Try not to lay it on too thick. We have yet to see the film, so doubt is still a viable option. ;^)
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...have you found out who Frank Welker is yet?
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I thought he was great in "Holes" and he seems right for this too. I'm somewhat dreading the 'Cousin Oliver' effect in Indy 4, but so long as they don't forget the film is about Harrison Ford, it'll probably be alright.
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Quote: "It's very good. It just looks nothing like Transformers. The cartoon worked because they TF are essentially human in character, but giant robots. That's what drove the whole stories - they were individuals and the stories were personal in nature. The movie is very far from this, clearly. As a designer, would you make something this complicated the main character in a story or would you just use it to drive the plot like Bay did?"I love your passion about this topic, I really do. However, this post is indicative of everything that is wrong with the pre-hate on this movie.I've seen the robots, too. They certainly look enough like Transformers to me. I certainly don't think they sail too far away from the original incarnations as some people would lead others to believe. In fact, some appear to have received a long overdue overhaul. I could care less that they don't look like carbon copies of the cartoon. I could care less that they don't have human-like faces. WHY? Because they're not human!!! They never were! If the designers and animators can make these creations emote, than why in the world would anyone say the alien concept is bullshit? Or that they're not "individuals"? Or that their individual story threads aren't somehow "personal in nature"? I'm sorry supes, but you're starting to sound like a kid who has been punished by having their G1 Optimus Prime taken away.And please know that I say this with all due respect, my dear.
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Tsk, tsk.Poseur.
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i'd elaborate but whats the point?
so dissapointed with this... -
against my apparently highly controversial post above. You can level me with pretentious, I don't care. Fine I'm pretentious, but Im the pretentious guy with an ounce of fucking discretion. I cannot believe how many people didn't attempt to defend the film in any other way but by saying "Get over it the cartoon sucked and Micahel bay rulez". That's not the god damned point. Quality wise obviously a cartoon isn't going to be great. But obviously it captured something bigger than that. WHat the cartoon had was character. SOmething the script, which for the last god damned time 99% OF WHAT WE ARE SEEING OUT OF THE FOOTAGE AGREES WITH, completely lacked. How much shit blows up is not a good yardstick of any film, action or not. Die Hard isn't classic JUST because things blow up, its a classic because Bruce Willis's McClane is an excellent character who we love going on a ride with. You people come off as thinking that character has nothing to do with a story's success. I mean do you really believe that? I don't care about the genre, romantic comedy, action, drama, character is absolutely tantamount. You can't love film and deny that. Then there is a good lot of you that say "you've accepted long ago this isn't going to be what we wanted it to be" well I haven't. I mean I accept the reality that the film will suck, but I certainly won't excuse it. I never have and I never will with any film, I simply love the medium too much to do that. And as far as the designs go, and I cant believe Im still fielding this accusation, I know, absolutely and 100%, that changes needed to be made. And I am in no way asking for the blocky robots of the old cartoon. WHat I AM asking for is at least some resemblence of the characters I know and love. ANd how the fuck can you argue with that? If you weren't a fan of them in the first place, then why don't you make your own god damn giant robot film? WHy do you have to root for changing something that clearly means something to alot of people already? Why are you even interested in a Transformers film if you thought the whole thing sucked in the first place? I don't go on Speed Racer talkbacks and champion the wholesale deconstruction of that character do i? WHy? Because I have no connection to the character, And it would make me an asshole to disrespect the people who do. It seems in practice that YOU in fact are the pretentious ones who wants things YOUR way. As for being big fans of Michael Bay, there I can't help you. All I can say is if you let my commentary on it get on your nerves then its probably because you are self concious about it yourself. Also just beause you like something, doesn't make it good. You should have the sense to say "Yeah this entertains me, but it certainly isn't quality." For instance if you are a fan of Nickelback, professional wrestling, and yes, Michael Bay. Now I'll probably have people form Nickelback and WWE forums coming after me.
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you know what i am a snob, cuz the masses are mostly fucking idiots. you guys are the same drones that makes wildhogs 100 million and buys britney albums. This movie looks more and more like a piece of shit. there are several transforming robot stories; i.e. gobots and macross. Everything that seperated transformers from those has been completely sucked out by this movie. Industry Killer is exactly right. The more i see of this the more i hate it. Dr. Zoidberg the fact that u put "The Rock" up there with Raiders of the Lost ark, or the fact u thought armegeddon was a good movie just further exemplifies my point that u are an idiot and i'll be happy to seperate myself as a snob from you.
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AM I RIGHT, PEOPLE??? AM I RIGHT???
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And What are you being descrete about? Being a closet queer? Get a thesaurus you pretentious cock.
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...holds any wait to intellignet people. You cannot tell people what to think. I have read the first draft too and no the script is not exactly Citizen Kane, but it actually can be servieable if edited well and some devlopments are made....you are basing everything on a draft script months old and a idiotic love for a stupid cartoon show...reading posts like yours makes me lose the will to live. You stated your case...no one gives a shit, so let it go. It will still make huge bucks and it could still be B-movie fun (which the fucking show was anyway).
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...the idiotic masses are what made Transformers popular in the first place. Using the "Masses = Fucking Idiots Defense" as a backhanded way of insulting people who are looking forward to seeing the film is impotent and hypocritical. As a snob, you should know better.
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"WHat I AM asking for is at least some resemblence of the characters I know and love. And how the fuck can you argue with that?" Again, can I borrow your time machine? All your posts are coming off as if you're stumbling out of the theatre, shaking with rage at what you've just witnessed. Chill out and wait untill you SEE the movie. You might be surprised. If not, rage-post away.
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lets be honest with ourselves. even if we really do hate the script that much, i COULD become better once its actually translated into a movie. none of you have any right to be saying this movie sucks already because you just dont know shit. the footage was amazing. really amazing.
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HAHA nice nickleback comment. Worst band on the freaking planet.
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they were toys for little kids who also had a cartoon.
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think about it. you all seem to want a kids movie with your old designs and retarted impossible plot with no humans. did you want a TMNT like version? sounds like it to me
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That is how NOT to respond in an intelligent fashion. Nothing I said makes any sense to an intelligent person apparently. Well if my arguments are so flimsy why don't you actually take a crack at addressing them? You in fact AGREE that the script is bad but maybe, Im assuming through Bay's "filmmaking technique" (an oxymoron btw), it will somehow turn out alright. Well I don't share your optimism but at least you are with me on the script. And once again I am pretentious but hes the one who wants Transformers done HIS way, not like the "stupid cartoon" that the film happens to be based on. "The cartoon you loved as a child is STUPID and Bay should change everything about it so I can enjoy it. YOU are pretentious for thinking otherwise." That is pretentious. Yeah, I'M the pretentious one. Riiiiight. And Crabman, I totally agree. And I won't be seeing it. I'll download it andw atch it without giving one red cent.
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If I like the movie, honestly I'll admit what about it I liked. I may be stentorient about not liking what is out there but I am a reasonable man. But if somehow, by the grace of god, I see the film and like it I'll admit that. Maybe by the time July 4th rolls around I'll have gotten this out of my system and somehow I'll be able to enjoy it on some B-movie level, I don't know. But for now the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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please go more out of your way to bitch about shit. all of you, its great fun to read
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hey tard
the popularity of the show was preceeded by that of the toy. The toys were mass marketed and sold in various markets. The show was created to advertise and sell tht TOY. The show was launched AFTER the toy was already popular. The quality of the show contributed to it's longevity WAY after it's mass appeal had faded. In other words the creators of the show did not have to make the story so watered down as to please everyone. The TOY was already popular and kids wanted to see the cartoon. This was why everyone remembers the Transformers and not the Gobots cartoon which was very watered down and crap. The creation and marketing of a toy should be way different than that of show or movie, at least it was that way back then. Today Bay took the already popular show and seems to have taken away the personal characteristic that made the show unique and packaged it for a very braod audience. -
All I hear is that this script rancid. So what level shitty is it? Is it Superman Returns level? Spawn level shitty? Ecks vs Sever shitty? Or Cool World shitty? Which one?
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So let me ask you. How can you not, at least on some level, understand why people who did like TF want a film closer to their heart? I mean there has to be soemthing out there that if they made a film out of it and took out everything that made it good you would be upset. Man I totally understand wanting a big giant robot movie with lots of stuff blowing up. I wouldn't mind that either. But that ISN'T what made Transformers great. Dude back int he 80's there were tons of lame toy franchises that looked cool. But Transformers had soemthing else, something that makes it endure. That's not my opinion that's a fact. You don't see them making a movie out of C.O.P.S., or M.A.S.K., or Insectoids do you? You keep saying the cartoon is stupid yet the movie will be great. How do you make that distinction? Because I can assure you the writing in the cartoon is no worse than the script for the film. In fact you can gleam better characterization from two hours of the cartoon than the movie. So what yardstick are you using? Is it simply because it's live action? Or that it has more advanced special effects? If that is the case than you can't call the cartoons stupid while espousing praise for the film, because you are judging purely on aesthetic value. The look alone does not make one thing stupid and another smart, or at least less stupid.
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your response and every single one of your posts have been the exact way NOT to discuss a movie...YOU HAVE NOT SEEN!! I am not being optomistic, the script was a draft so it could possibly been developed...I realise nothing has changed much, from some of the scenes, but I just can't take this whole "Love for the characters" bullshit...as if there was any characters...you call people out for eating up waht hollywood produced, but you have seem to eaten up exactly what Hasbro fed you in the 80's. To the point were you actually think it had some sort of mythology. Now grow up and go play outside.
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come on. i think if you really think about it, none of this change is for the worst. especially visually. no matter how different they look. action is clearly a huge part of the transformers appeal, as well as with their actual transformation. well, transformations are looking completely kick ass. we all know action is going to be great. and hey, we are not getting a movie for little kids. so suck it up and enjoy it like someone like me who doesnt have this die hard love for the old cartoon. its different and kind of new, so take it like that.
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Don Murphy's track record isn't so hot for handling good source material. League Of Extraordinary Gentleman is a GREAT example of that. He COMPLETELY botched that. He could have adapted Alan Moore's comic book straight up and it would have ran CIRCLES around the movie they made.
Like the poster mentioned above, Don was big on trying to get transformers fans involved early on, but clearly decided his crew (Bay, etc) knew better. This movie is almost unrecognizable as Transformers, save the names and symbols.
No one was asking for a direct translation of the old cartoons, comics, but the script they ended up using is rubbish. The leaked script is dead on so far with ALL the trailers they've shown.
So far my favorite comparison of these designs are saying it looks a lot like "Bionicle" but the "Batteries Not Included" comparison is growing on me. -
Mar 31, 2007 3:38:30 PM CDT
Ok, the Michael Bay "lovers" are startin to piss me off
by gibsonusa returns
First of all, I'm not a Bay "hater". I liked The Rock and a few other movies of his. When they first annouced him as director, I was happy and defending him because the 1986 movie seems very "Bay-ish" to me. I'm just a TF fan in the middle, with concerns so sometimes I sound like I'm leaning towards the hater column. But I'm not a hater.
I can understand how some of the more aggressive "haters" here can sound whiney. But who pisses me off 100x MORE are these Bay "lovers" who seem to say ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to defend this movie. What are you, guerilla salespersons working for Paramount here to generate buzz?? I'm not saying you are, but it sounds like it to me.
STOP putting words in our mouths, b*tches! I have not read ONE SINGLE person say they want this movie to look exactly like G1. NOT ONE. I haven't even read someone implying they wanted that. The only people mentioning this are the people defending the movie. All I've heard are people saying that the robot designs are very messy, and they don't suit the characters. What's wrong with THAT?? They ARE messy, and they DON'T suit the characters as we traditionally know them! Nobody mentioned anything about exactly like G1!! Starscream looks nothing like ANY Starscreams (all of which have maintained a vaguely consistent look).
And I like how the Bay lovers resort to attacking the TV series in order to defend the movie. "The TV show SUCKED to begin with!!"....Um, okay....if Transformers has always sucked, then why call this movie Transformers? Though YOU may feel TF on TV sucks, many other fans may like it....and if you're gonna call a movie "Transformers", don't you think you should respect the source material? Transforming robots are not limited to the Transformers....Go-Bots and Power Rangers also feature them. It's retarded for you to defend a movie called Transformers by attacking the Transformers. R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D.
If you're guerilla salespersons, obviously I'm not going to change your mind. But if you're not, think about what you are saying, and stop putting words in our mouths. I am hoping this TF movie will be good and prove all my concerns to be unfounded...but you're aggressive defending of this movie only lends to bad PR imo. You're making the product look even worse. -
Dude, it's all great that you're so passionate about this, but reality check a little.. you've just spent how many hours of your life posting away about a movie? Whether you end up loving it or hating it... i can gaurantee, you'll still wake up the next day, and life will go on... you and we will either lose many countless hours after that, rewatching it, or stick it up on a shelf with all the other bad movies made.... there's way too many important things to worry about in life to let this get you down.... lol and to be honest, when you said the cartoon had character... yes, you're right, but it was character that appealed to 8-14 year olds..and we've all been holding to that so tight, the gods themselves couldn't make a movie to satisfy all the masses...
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DONT YOU THINK, LANDA?
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Come on, let's be realistic, Bay and I guess Spielberg liked the robot designs and no one had the balls to tell them they look like SHIT. They are hideous. The best examples so far of describing Megatron's face is that it looks like a vagina and Starscream's whole robot design looks like a chicken.
...And they don't transform so much as morph. Bumblebee is a perfect example of that. At one point in the movie (script) he just picks out a car, "digitizes" it and then as I recall the script describes it kinda as his body rippling into the new design. -
Uh...yeah. You're facts just made my point. And as for Bay making a movie that appeals to a broader audience, he sort of has to. Not everyone purchased the toys or sat on their nerd ass to watch the show after grade school.While G1 is the most iconic, it is not the only source to pull from. You and many others seem oblivious to the fact that the Transformers universe continued to evolve and expand LONG after it left you guys in G1 Land.
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2 for 2 on this TB
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we have driven the decepticon haters away.
looks cool. that is all. -
So, you guys complaining about the look of the robots sucking. Watch one of those shitty CG movies like Beast Wars or some shit like that if that's what you want. You bitch about them no looking like they did in the cartoon, but you don't realize how fucking gay that would look. At least not they look realistic, like they HAVE moving parts. Then you bitch about the characterizatiion and script of a movie about 1980's CARTOON characters. Get the fuck over yourselves, you whiney, wannabe film maker cunts. The movie looks like it's going to be Giant fucking robots bashing the hell out of eachother. Exactly what do you want from this movie? It's target audience is clearly going to be the younger set, so those of us who grew up with the cartoon aren't getting the same thing we had when we were kids. We got our movie, dick heads. And it had "Dare To Be Stupid" and John Bender. Now, I'll agree, Bay doesn't make movie masterpieces and he can't hold a candle to filmmakers like Scorcese or Cameron or anyone of the like. But he can make some really good action. I mean, let's face it. Pearl Harbor may have sucked, but the actual attack? Fucking AWESOME. I feel sorry for you tearful little fucks who are think this movie deserves anything better than what it's getting. We're talking about a property made to sell toys. Grow the fuck up and get over yourselves.
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Ecks vs. Server reads better. Ugh.
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Well said.
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...has got his hands on WE3 now. Can't wait to see Morrison's script anally rendered....
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I highly doubt the film will be a very good film. But I'm starting to believe it will be a pretty damn fun movie. I have no doubt the script is not as good as we'd all want it to be, BUT I am hoping it's not as bad as it's being made out to be.
Michael Bay is a director I've hated since Armageddon made me 2 1/2 hours DUMBER back in the summer of '98. I've never cared for his work ever since. Hell, I've even begun to dislike The Rock as time goes by, despite the fact I loved it when it first came out.
However, it looks like he has made -like I said before - a pretty damn fun movie. I'm HOPING it doesn't turn out so stupid I'll be banging my head against the wall, but I don't know for sure at this moment in time. All I know is the commercials and the trailers have sparked much more interest for me in seeing this flick than I wanted to believe I would have.
And for the guys in here crying up a storm about the movie's unfaithfulness to the source material, I've gotta tell you... I have all the G1 DVDs. I've been watching them with my son lately. The show is fun for kids but if you really consider the show a measure of good storytelling or characterization, you're damaging your credibility as a critic. Optimus was great just for being great, Megatron was the Anti-Optimus, Starscream was the treacherous loudmouth, Soundwave was the emotionless tape deck with other little robots stored in his chest, and Bumblebee was the... yellow Volkswagen. That's about it. Pretty much ALL the other characters (mainly the Autobots) were more or less interchangeable. Are you going to tell me that Cliffjumper was a really dynamic character because he was "feisty?" Or Ironhide's character will be "ruined" if he's not "loyal and drawly" enough? Or are you really willing to argue that even Michael Bay, as bombastic and non-subtle as he is, could fuck up the intricacies and depth of a character like, say... Grimlock?
If you want great character development, watch Buffy or Angel or BSG or Lost. Not the Transformers. Honestly... the more I watch the show that you hold so dear to your hearts as narrative, mythological canon, the more I begin to agree with the ones you despise so much who say "it's really just robots who turn into stuff and blow shit up." I grew up with the cartoon. I've been watching it over again. It's not high art, folks. It's silly fun. Guess what... the movie probably will be also. -
So, anyone that calls you out on being the pussy-assed whiners you are is a plant? Right.
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I totally understand what you're saying. And for the record, I've been swinging away in the "cautiously optimistic camp" with regards to this movie. The problem with the Haters is that they are putting words into EVERYONE ELSE'S mouths. They think that because the designs don't look G1 enough, the individuality of the characters (again - as they know them from G1) has been lost. Why? Because Ironhide isn't a red mini-van that means he's not going to be the Ironhide you guys know and love? Says who?
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*gets* anally rendered
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I don't think anyone disputes that Michael Bay is not a good action director. Even when his movies are panned by the critics, they usually mention a really good action scene.
I will actually admit to "kinda" liking his action/sci-fi flicks Armageddon, The Island and The Rock, although I will say they are fairly mindless entertainment.
The problem with Bay is that he was adament [stubborn] that these robot designs were so great and "realistic". Just wait until the critics and the summer movie audience backlash to HATING the robot designs [junkpiles=best description yet].
The only redeeming factor here is if the Autobot designs look better and more "human" like then we've been led to believe and that they really play up the "alien/evil" aspect of why the Decepticons look so bionicley junky. -
And you better hope PharteGoddPrime shows up, Poseur.
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...BSB how all your posts' subject lines are in caps now. It's like YOU'RE afraid no one is paying attention to you...
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Mar 31, 2007 4:21:47 PM CDT
JediWuddayaknow, so what frat do you belong to again?
by industrykiller!
Just wondering.
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Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.
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sleep everynight oin this website, im a plant. haha yeah sounds about right, you fucking morons. i cant wait for the few hundred people who post on these talkbacks are the only ones in the world to try and not see this movie. whata bunch of losers
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Hey, I'm as big geek as the next guy. But I'm not going to cry about a TRANSFORMERS movie like it's great literature being destroyed.
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Kurt Russell, and he started laughing pretty hard... so I guess it was okay.
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Kurt Russell, and he started laughing pretty hard... so I guess it was okay.
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Who is the traitor? The guy who hope we get a worthwhile balls-to-the-wall film? Or, the guy who doesn't even know who Frank Welker is???!!!Le' POSEUR!!!
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...about Welker. It's a shame he won't be Megatron's voice. That would really have been a nice touch. I mean, if Cullen is Prime, I think Welker should be Megs. I don't hate the idea of Agent Smith voicing him, but... Welker would just have been better. Though if what I've heard is true in regards to Megatron's screen time, it's probably a non-issue.
I WOULD, however, be interested to know who will be doing all the Starscreaming in the movie. I still stand by what I said in my above post in terms of the shallow characterization in the cartoon, but I can't deny Chris Latta's voicework (for SS as well as Cobra Commander) was pretty iconic for a kid in the 80's.
Makes me wonder how long before the overzealous TransFans start accusing Michael Bay of killing Latta himself just so he couldn't be part of the movie. -
Who would be a good casting choice for Starscream's voice work? Any ideas / suggestions??
The only guy I can think of, off the top of my head... if you have to keep the raspy quality... would be Michael Wincott. I know he's Mr. 1990's, but he always had a killer voice, and was almost always the perfect bad guy. (I say almost because, well... Three Musketeers? I know actors gotta eat, but... he could've just held on to what he had left of his "Crow" paycheck....) -
Well, there is a rumor going around that Welker will be cast as someone else in the film. Apparently, the top candidate is Starscream.But you're right, it's tough to beat Latta: "Who disrupts my coronation???!!!".And I think some of the "Transfans" have already accused Bay of such a scheme...
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Then why make a multi-million dollar movie based off it, retards? Why get so fucking amped up over it? Why care if anyone "hates" upon it. That statement should be nominated for "Stupidest fucking argument made more than 100 times in an AICN talkback" category for 2007.
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i dont even know which side you are coming fromw ith that post, but if you are mocking someone who said it was a dumb cartoon but the movie is gonna be cool, then i stand by a statement like that. make a multimillion dollar blockbuster out of it because of the potential for someone like a michael bay and or spielberg to turn it into a huge action movie. the concept is cool when you can place it into a real world setting. a gritty, possibly dark setting like the movie i think we are getting. it was a dumb cartoon for selling toys, but i think i can say pretty confidently that its going to make a badass michael bay movie. pretty simple there
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Great call. Not too many folks recognize him by name but that guy's voice is awesome. It would take me a year of drinking nothing but whiskey and smoking Lucky Strikes to get that much gravel in my voice.
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Okay... Welker as Starscream. If SS is the big baddie for the majority of the flick, I can see that as an appropriate choice. I can also see that as an answer to who could fill shoes such as those, that would be a BIG focal point for the G1 fans. Latta can't do it, Megatron is only in the last act... Welker may just be the most respectable choice. (Maybe even the only respectable choice, for some fans.)
I would like it. I would support that. I think it's respectful, and if Welker and Latta were friends (God knows how often they must have worked together,) then I'm guessing Welker would probably feel honored to take the role. I'm also assuming it will be a voice we haven't heard before from him. I don't imagine he'll just be doing his best Latta impression; I imagine he'd make the role his own, but still in keeping with the performance Latta brought to it.
Of course, this is just me projecting my view on the whole idea. I don't know any of these guys... maybe they'd have Welker give Starscream Soundwave's voice. That would be lame. -
I'd vote for that. Even though I like NOTHING about this film. Passion for something does not equal hate.
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If I'm not mistaken, I believe Wincott actually went on that diet as a career move.
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The only problem I have with Weaving in the role is that I hate when hollywood actors get voice roles. It takes away roles from worthy voice actors who deserve the roles more and don't distract you from the character itself. Which is what rocked about TMNT. Y'know aside from Chris Evans & SMG.
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Um, my head would explode, or something. :)
Good thing the movie version looks nothing like Starscream. -
When did this site start crossing over into mainstream *winces* audiences. It used to be a place for people who were fans of good cinema now its just a hidge podge of guys talking about how much htey love explosions and Michael Bay. Believe it or not it used to be a place where you could actually come and be a film geek and the Hollywood establishment loving apologists stayed comfortably on their side of the fence. What I don;t understand is that alot of these people sseem to have no discernable love for film, so whats the point of coming on a talkback for it? Now you have people seriously defending Fantastic Four, X3, Pearl Harbor (for the love of God), and Ghost Rider. I mean jesus Pearl Harbor, one of the most atrocious things ever put to screen, gets a pass now because apparently some thoguht the war scenes were really neat. I'm waiting for the Roland Emmerich Godzilla fans to start crawling out of the woodwork. I can just imagine that if the JJ Abrhams Superman script leaked now it would probably get a resounding good response around here. I mean jesus these people truly don't realize that no great genre film ever made is great simply because the action is good, and anyone who cares to point out that simple fact is pretentious. They are actually HAPPY to be spoon fed garbage. They want it. They need it. And they need it validated. It's sad sad times we live in.
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who the fuck are you to tell me i dont like a good movie. jesus christ. at the same time, that simply doesnt mean that i have to hate everything that is mainstream and that isnt fucking brilliant just because i love reading a geek movie site. holy fuck, you are the one im worried about. you find it impossible to enjoy any action movie that pretty much knows its not fucking oscar worthy, but it is made to please the masses. sorry that i enjoy shit like in the summertim. seriously, fuck you and your opinion if you are too sad and dedicated to being a harcore film nerd that you cant enjoy something for what it is, even if it is a michael bay movie. also i hated pearl harbor (except the attack scene - hahaha) and X3 was so terrible etc etc, but no one here has seen this transformers movie yet, so how the hell can you compare our opinions of this movie to opinions of movies that are already out. what the fuck industrykiller. way to take the fucking fun out of seeing a movie, asshole
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sorry to burst your happy bubble.
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So, it used to be nothing but a place for elitist assholes to whine about hollywood? Damn. That must suck for you guys to have people saying that there were bright spots to movies you hate so much it gives you nightmares. So, because we agree that, as a film, Pearl Harbor sucks, but we acknowledge that it had a really great battle sequence, means we're lesser than you? I would never validate Pearl Harbor as a movie, but I think it had ONE good part overall. What a fuckin' nightmare! God, what an arrogant prick.
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it just pissees me off when people hate something because they "are supposed to", like people who take film classes or whatever, and their teacher tells them that for example michael bay sucks at making movies. definatly true to some extent, but he does certain things well, and they are important for this movie that we are now talking about. so why the hell is there so much shit about this movie on this website this far in advance? its just weird, like make up your own minds, dont judge so harshly from shit you havent seen yet. what we have seen, is pretty awsome. most everyone in the world will think so probably, but not on this site, because michael bay doesnt make artsy good movies. he makes "mtv" shit, so you are all supposed to hate him because thats what film nerds do. so therefore you have to hate the movie already. well thats bullshit. thats what i mean, and thats what i hate, if any of that made any sense
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Can't say I'm sorry for being on your tip as you say what I feel so very well. Here here. 3 for 3 or 4 for 4. Whatever. You say what I am unable to say concisely. Loving film and what makes film great does not make one a hater. Read why we don't like this film's appaulingly apparent execution guys. Not everyone on this site demands mindless fun. A little allegory never hurt.
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Not to say that Weaving doesn't have a GREAT voice... when you think about it, it's really the only recognizable aspect of his performance as V, which was still excellent. And it's not like they picked someone like Brad Pitt to do it, just for being a movie star. Weaving exudes substance, or -dare I say the word- GRAVITAS where a lot of other actors don't. I mean, I think they picked him for the right reasons, so I don't ultimately have a problem with him taking the role.
I do see your point, though, about celebrity voicework. Some of these CG movies that have come out in the past decade or so, as much as I really love them... I can't NOT see John Goodman, Billy Crystal, Bruce Willis, Wanda Sykes, Garry Shandling, Ray Romano, Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy or Holly Hunter when I'm watching those movies. The worst for me, though (aside from any of Robin Williams' voiceovers,) has got to be Owen Wilson in Cars. He did nothing at ALL in terms of acting for that movie. He just rolled out of bed, drove to the studio, did his tracks and left.
Maybe the rare exceptions I can think of are Craig T. Nelson in The Incredibles (not a big movie star, had a perfect voice for the role,) maybe Ewan McGregor in Robots, Denis Leary in Ice Age (I still know it's Leary, but he put on a pretty good performance - they got their money's worth out of him,) and believe it or not, maybe even Mike Myers in Shrek. Maybe the whole silly Scottish accent has just become more Shrek-ish than Myers-ish in my mind, but at least I don't picture Austin Powers when I watch the Shrek movies. -
I hate it and posted it on the other TB first no credit for me. but anywho Wlekr is rumored to be recording Megatrons dialouge for the DVD as a option for the movie.I just hope he does the video game thats the only thing that will get my money and I'm only renting it.
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demand more out of a film. Everyone enjoys film at a different level. That's just people. Christ my dad hates the shit I love and my wife can't get into some dramas I love. I don't hate them for it. Opinions are not fact. Personal preference is not fact. Many have said why this movie has yet to impress. Many have said why the insanely impressive SFX and action sequences do not compensate for the horrid story.
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It would be one thing to disagree with the movie, but when you go on tirades and in a way, VIOLENTLY oppose the movie every time something comes up about it, that's entirely another. That makes a hater. Yeah, okay, you post once about the movie not being your cup of tea, okay. We get it. You don't like it. You haven't seen it, and your entire opinion is based off an assumption, but whatever. But when you go out of your way to tell everyone what a steaming pile of shit you assume it will be every chance you get? That's as obnoxious as the idiots who think they're witty with the "DAMN YOU MICHAEL BAY" and "INSERT NAME HERE GOTTA EAT" bullshit.
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Mar 31, 2007 5:50:50 PM CDT
Morons, does Optimus look bad because he's based on G1?
by furiousstyles
tell me? because I'm tired of fans being bashed just because they wanted robots that resemble their classic looks........Bay lovers, please tell me if you think Optimus is lame looking - or doesnt work - because I'm pretty sure he was based on his G1 model! Thats all we wanted with the other robots too..........
no one ever wanted something EXACTLY like G1 - they wanted something that honored G1 - Optimus seems too..........
this film looks like it'll be great fun - but I cant help but think how much better it would have been with robots that looked more like their classic looks.....a valid opinion -
Yeah, Lightstormer, I do agree that there are some GREAT voice actors with celeb status. And I love Weaving as V. In fact, I can't picture anyone else doing it as well. I have to hand it to some of the pizar things. They really pick good people for the voices. Nelson was excellent, and he's not that big a name. But when you've got people who are like Justin Timberlake, Eddie Murphy and what not? Where they fucking even make the CHARACTER have their physical characteristics? That's annoying.
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Seriously, it blows the other ones out of the water...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udJF1Ej4n9I -
Well, I hope I haven't done that. Debate is interesting to say the least. I starting posting to bring up other views. I am TF freak of my own design. I have brought up what could have been regarding the new comics that surfaced in 2000 and onward. The script/concept could have had tons of action and relevant allegory to our world situation currently - i.e. it could have had both. Not preachy, just good simple shit like the cartoon did. Not a stretch. The down right lies that have been levied from those involved with the film after promising faithful G1 interpretations does not sit well. Why get fan input up front, make promises and then lie when you get caught not keeping your word? Why not just say up front, hey we're making TF our way. New everything. That would have been fine and I for one would not have posted a thing. I rarely post. I come here to read others thoughts and broaden my views. Everything about this movie makes me whine since it could have been more. Not trying to stir up shit, just saying. Clearly I should stop posting since I cannot make a point. But I am sure I will again anyway. My intention is not to annoy.
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I don't want that..............I want a great movie about the Trasformers - a valid request..............I'm pretty sure Michael Bay wore a shirt on set that read "Big fucking robots are coming", or something to that effect - so reflect on what a zombie you must be if the only way you can defend this film is be repeating this lame cunts T-Shirt slogan...............and a big FUCK YOU goes to the sellouts who run this site - you rightfully run Fantastic Four into the ground when it disrespected the source material - but when Michael Bay himself, even in words, disrespects the source material and calls fans of said material "dickwads" and such you blindly support him?.................I dont remember Tim Story ever dissing Fantastic Four comics in interviews and calling out HARRY KNOWLES for rightfully defending it..................just saying your not TF fans is not reason enough to blindly support what quite openly pisses on source material..........it undermines all other arguements you ever made about other fan properties................and QUINT, please apply the BIG FUCKING ROBOTS logic to your beloved Jaws - Jaws 2, 3, and 4 are all great films right because they had a GIANT FUCKING SHARKS in them..............no, they were bad films that had big sharks in them........so fuck you Quint if you dont want a good movie - I happen to...........I now actually think this film looks pretty good - but I cant stand how hard you cunts sold out on this, to the point of constantly repeating Michael Bay's own catchphrase...........all BIG FUCKING ROBOTS qouters (AICN writers too) - wipe your lips cocksuckers
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Holy shit! Nice one with the Jaws analogy. No arguements here.
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Just ran across this...hilarious. Anyway, back on topic, it's hard to fuck up giant fighting robots, especially if they are done with CGI and done well. The story just has to be serviceable for the kickass robots. Hopefully, this will be half as fun as Independence Day was, which was a big, dumb, very fun film when it was released.
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The Jaws example does NOT work (at least not yet) since no one has seen this movie. Save your example until you've actually seen the movie.
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Those of us who are not happy with what we have seen of the movie are constantly getting attacked by dozens of different people, all of whom are accusing us of the same exact things, when none of those things are actually being said. We are not saying that we want the G1 designs. We are not saying we want the movie to actually be just like G1. All we want is for the movie to have a little bit of ANY PART of what made the original so appealing. Ahh, I don't know why I am even trying. It's not like people are actually listening. We voice honest complaints about the movie, and people pop up and tell us that the original cartoons are stupid and would not have worked as a movie, and that we need to stop whining that they didn't make it just like them. (Nevermind that none of us are actually saying that.) We come back to try to explain our actual complaints, as people almost always do when they feel they have been misunderstood or falsely represented, and we hear the same heedless insults hurled back. It's the great circle of life. At least nobody has invoked Godwin's Law yet. By the way, superninja, if you are still reading, did you see TMNT? I find myself pointing to it increasingly often as a perfect example of the kind of approach that should have been taken with TF. Not to make a movie that is just like the actual cartoon, but to make a movie that is like what we as adults REMEMBER the cartoon as being like when we were children.
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Okay, saying it has cool special effects is one thing. (I'll give it that.) Saying it might be an entertaining movie is another thing. (It's possible.) Saying it's actually going to be good is something else. But saying it is going to be the film of the DECADE?! Well, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the thought of somebody actually believing that.
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Maybe you joined the party a little late..but since the first talkback about the designs on this movie went up, there have been talkbackers bleeting on about how they should look like the toys. They even included links to the toys they wanted modelled..like masterpiece someone-or-another..
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because the AICN writers are asking for nothing but a gimmick (whether we've seen the film or not) - and if they're satisfied for such approach to a property I love, then they should be satisfied wth the same for something such as Jaws............if this turns out to be a good movie it wont be because it had big robotos - it'll be because someone took the time and care to make a good movie..........the whole point of using Jaws is to show up the lame double standard being used by AICN to support this film......nowhere can I find them asking for a good movie - despite how many loyal AICN readers are raising valid concerns............infact, they are being repeatedly disrespected for it - disrespected on this website by people who dont understand Transformers, AICN writers, studio plants who are payed to get on here and post brainless support, and even the FILM MAKERS themselves...........they've swapped geek film anticipation for something special to catchprhases for something shallow - and shame on them for it...............
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Ahh. Yeah, I haven't followed all the TF talkbacks. All I know is that, in the past two or three TF talkbacks I have read, I have not seen anything like that, but I have heard a very vocal minority bitching at people for making those specific complaints. And what's more, they are responding to those complaints as if those are the only complaints we have been making. My biggest complaint does have to do with the designs, but it has nothing to do with them not looking like G1. It's more that they don't look like Transformers PERIOD. To me, a Transformer is a robot that a) turns into something, and b) looks like it is made up of pieces of that thing. None of the material I have seen so far has fit that second criteria, and so it does not feel like Transformers to me. Since I like Transformers, this makes me sad every time I see a trailer with a big Transformers logo. I don't know why that is so hard for some people to respect.
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I think your hung up the most on the designs There the one thing you can Defend. I know you don't want to ruing the movie for yourself by reading th escript but for the rest of us save gany we recognize that script 100% BS and Bay states that changes were made but it follows "the same beats" there is main problem with this movie. Your familiarity with the TF universe probably owns mine I never got into the Comic book. SO you understand the need for Getting them and the story right. this movie nothing more then humans fight the decepticons a few scense with autobots and 120 minutes of fart jokes.
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All Seeing Eye - was that such a bad idea? go and compare the masterpiece Starscream to the Starscream in the trailer - and please try and tell me it wouldnt look 100 times better if it SOMEWHAT resembled the masterpiece model..........theres no way an open minded person could tell me that the film Starscream is a good design - its horrid...................using the toys and the cartoons as the BASIS of the designs was the right way to go - they did that with Optimus and most people are happy with him...........Do you like the movie Optimus? Suprise! Suprise! he looks like he was based on the toy!
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How can you just completely fuck it up? That's what I'd like to know. This is on another level and bay was not prepared to do a film like this, yes he does action, but he's really not had to combine elements of a scifi movie with CGI characters interaction with actors.
Has anyone payed attention to the bayformers anatoamy? This jackass director must not have noticed and or cared, but some of the bots have only four digits and others really fucked up digits.
If the product is shit why buy into it? Why waste your money on it?
Fuck off, Nelson. Bays number one LACKEY.
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don't get TASE started on why those models won't work. We've had this long pointless discussion before and for him it basically boils down to "I understand 3-D art you don't, It wouldn't work". But I'm with you If some students can do it, and a toy manufacturer can do Why not ILM, but back on topic the animation here looks kind of iffy. Hoenstly I think WETA could have pulle this off they specialize in the organic. They Phoned in a couple of scenes in King Kong but I thought generally the effects where great.
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I used to like the old transformers stuff, lots of fun. The comic over the cartoon but what the heck, cool robots doing funky stuff, your 11 who cares. Point 1: If they'd released this when I was 11 (yes yes assuming they could) I would have been more than a little WTF'd by the robot designs. As they stand now I can tie my own shoe laces I'm still WTF'd by the designs BUT NOT BECAUSE THEY RAPED MY CHILDHOOD but BECAUSE THEY ARE SHIT. They look flimsy and way to fussy and yes physics are important (no matter how much you stretch them) in making you beleive what you are seeing otherwise make a CG movie. Yes the action will be HUGE, no the script won't make sense, yes it's a popcorn summer blockbuster and... it's all about big robots fighting each other. I just think it looks a bit crap and not because of fond childhood memories but because, it looks a bit crap.
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Ok, I'm officially hypoed about this movie now. I always was but those spots have me totally sold. Cant wait for a big dumb popcorn transformers movie...just what the doctor ordered.
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to be a good time, but are still mad about some of the changes. that is completely understandable, but it seems these few of you are ready to now take this movie for what it is, a new chapter in the transformers franchise.
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designs for the movie? especially since this movie is live action, and everything else was cartoon. seems pretty fucking obvious to me that change, maybe even drastic change, was completely necessary. what they did was perfectly fine
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Aliens vs. Predator, Batman & Robin, LXG, Ghost Rider, X3, Superman 3-5.....
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We'll probably get some shit love story tossed in and close ups of scared women and other sorts of shit... fuck that! I wanna see the Transformers conversing with each other with occasional focuses on humans. Actually the right blend ought to be 70% Robots 30% humans, or haeva 50/50 deal of ONE human and his iteractions with particularly one of the Transformers and everyone else surrounding them both humans and robots... know what I mean? Well I'm too lazy to try explaining it more detailed...
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"As an 3D animator myself i'm a little incredulous as to how you can draw those conclusions from a 50 second preview."
I've got nothing to go on besides that trailer. I'm assuming the Starscream-thing was a money shot chosen to represent the type of action that I, the viewer, can expect from this movie. If that's the case, I'm very impressed by the modelers and disappointed in the animators. To me the Starscream scene was an opportunity to show this huge fucking robot really interacting with the scenery. Instead, that giant robot might as well weigh 10 lbs, until the concrete gets crushed at the very end. Nothing to be proud of, IMO. -
Does anyone know if Barack Obama is a member of Skull and Bones. Michael Bay is.
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...yeah it's a good thing humans know how to make some sturdy dams. Remember this classic G1 moment fellas?http://tinyurl.com/2qgjcp
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I believe that the reason there is so much hate for this movie from some of the hardcore G1 fans is because the movie was initially announced as "based" on G1 transformers. Of course it could be loosely "based" like what we are seeing right know (names, partial optimus prime look, some guy named spike, etc). However, I believe it was San Diego's comicon 2005 that had a semi-truck closely resembling G1 Optimus with a tarp announcing the movie. There were pictures of this all over the internet. This and other signs resulted in many of us expecting to see the same designs as the G1 cartoons, same personalities and same background story. Had it been said something like "Look guys (or girls), we are making a transformers movie. We will re imagine the universe, the designs, borrow from the new and the old, but it will have big giant alien sentient robots that transform and blow shit up" then by now everybody would know not to expect a live action version of the G1 transformers.
As fan of the show and the toys I would have preferred a designs more closely resembling G1, however, I am liking what I am seeing so far. For all fellow G1 fans, it pretty obvious we are not getting a G1 replica movie. You might as well try to enjoy the closest thing you will get to what you love. At this point, we can only hope to get a fun movie and give thanks that ben whoflec won't be there to ruin it.
Roll out! -
Those four little words just seem so out of place put together in one (at first glance) innocent sentence.Clearly, no matter what, people are predisposed to either loving this or hating this. It's a Mike Bay movie. Either you like his movies or you dislike them. There's pretty much nothing in between. I do not think he will ever elevate himself beyond what he is now. Has some great 'movie painting' scenes, some action, and average to below average dialog. That's the breaks. It will make a lot of money, but who knows how much.
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Thanks for the clip. That's one badass dam. Also, what was with the glowing medieval weapons? Even as a kid I remember thinking "What the fuck?"...
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Unicron showing up over earth and shitting out Battle Beasts from his big metal ass. Fire! Wood! or Water!....Don't matter cause earth be fucked bitches
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This is a fucking movie about giant robots who blow shit up. What were you expecting from a film based on a commercial?
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I have to say that where this film will fall down for me is if the GFR's (Giant Fucking Robots) are just soulless pieces of hardware lacking in distinct personalities. I'm not sure I'll be able to tell 'em all apart otherwise. King Kong (any version) would have fallen down if Kong was just a giant ape who ran round fucking things up - Kong works because he mostly has personality and (somewhat of) an agenda. If these GFR's are just 'cool-looking' plot devices, then my interest won't be held for any length of time. That said; I'll still be seeing this; looks good so far.
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Yeah
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Can't tell the arms from the legs with these robot designs! And if it's this confusing looking at them on my computer screen, how much of an incomprehensible mess will they be when they're running around 30 ft. high on the big-screen? I'm gonna need an extra-strength tube of Head-On after 20 minutes of this film! My eyes are already hurting just thinking about it.
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Apr 01, 2007 12:42:10 AM CDT
These Bay lovers seem to KNOW NOTHIN about TRANSFORMERS
by gibsonusa returns
[sorry i posted this in the other forum, it was intended to be here.]
1. They trash the G1 cartoon, and any other TV cartoon when applicable.
2. They call the franchise as "giant transforming robots fighting" in summary, claiming it has no depth
3. Then, in a contradictory twist, they claim this may be the top movie of the year. (Above Spiderman?)
Dudes, if you're guerilla salespeople here to generate buzz and promote the movie, you're doing a LOUSY job. I could do a better job fake defending this movie. Listen, don't defend the Transformers movie by trashing the Transformers. That makes no sense. It's like defending the Ghost Rider movie by trashing the comics. It makes no sense to trash the source material of something you claim will be the movie of the year. You sound retarded.
IF I WERE TO DEFEND THIS MOVIE, here's how I would go about it off the top of my head. I would respect the source material, and respect everything TF from G1 forward, then try to get the haters to consider this as an alternate universe take where everything is fixable. Flames on Optimus? Who says it has to stay in the future? Same goes for Sam and the human characters. I would explain that this is simply the launching pad for a possible new franchise, which will have flaws and tedious moments, but for which the possibilities are endless in the future. Without Star Trek 1, there would be no Wrath of Kahn. And without this first entry into TF, there would be no possibilities upcoming. I would ask the haters to please forgive any missteps on this first try, and stick with us because the stuido is truly trying their best.
G1 fans and other TF are upset, and it's understandable. As the studio and Bay supporters, it is best though to take the high road and try to establish relationships while acknowledging flaws and shortcoming.
"HANG IN THERE STICK WITH US PLEASE" should be the message....not "G1 was crap you all suck!!".......if you're plants saying that, you suck at your job. Period. -
Introducing Bubblebee next to a yellow VW Beetle is just salt in the wound. (Although effects keep me happy...)
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Shit, in all these little trailers, teasers, and tv spots..has there been a complete, 100% scene, of an unobstructed vehicle transforming into a giant robot? NO all we have been given is small little half second glimpses. you can slow it down in Qt all you want, but it isn't enough to really show you what you are gonna see in the theatre. PLUS these are fucking rezed down versions of the actual thing, NOT the actual thing, so there is probably a whole fuck of a lot more detail when you see it in the theatre. Stop with all the bitching already, shit, I grew up with G1, I don't give a shit that they tweaked, or completely changed the designs, I would have felt embarassed trying to explain how a hand gun transforms into a giant ten foot robot... so take a deep breath and reassess your dedication to the originals. Also, My biggest gripe, which is not being changed, was the flames on Optimus..I still think they are WEAK...but that will not stop me from going to see this movie opening night. In fact, I am not going to go to just see robots blowing things up. NO, I am also going to see the NEW Camaro TRANSFORM into a giant robot. That, IS A TRANSFORMER. NO? wasn't that what was so cool back when we watched them as kids? A truck that transformed into a robot with lasers and shit? That's what these trailers seem to be showing us? So what the hell???? Really. And the TRANSFORMERS MOVIE SUCKED(the cartoon) I hated it. I hated the soundtrack and the animation and all of that shit. When I rewatch the cartoon, I also see A LOT of the flaws..so I stopped doing it, the only thing really that holds up, are the toys. My Optimus Prime was the best toy ever.
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We already know were looking unrealistic transformations (due to the excessive moving parts and splintering components of the designs and what ahs been shown of the transformations so far) of vehicles into robot designs people generally don't like, which, in all their business, are not only difficult to phsyically look at but show little if any hints of what they transformed from (with a few small exceptions). That's not a Transformer. That's a car that magically splinters into a vaguely humanoid shaped mechanoid.
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when they start having to lie about your intentions. So, let them keep lying, and we should keep pointing out the obvious - that this film has very little to do with Transformers and had a horrible story.
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Noone thinks G1 was high art. They just believe it could be. THAT story, THAT mythology, THOSE characters. Atleast I for one think Transformers should be regarded on an equal level to Star Wars. Hell it has a 9 million year plus back story and thats just in the kids cartoon.Yes G1 didn't not have much for "character development" but it LOADS of character. People wanted to see the character DEVELOPMENT in the LIVE ACTION MOVIE. Think of the cartoon as a myth or legend someone told you, that needs to be respected but grown up at the same time. The problem here folks is people don't believe the source material is being respected. It's quite obvious. Someone approved these disgraceful designs that don't look even close to as good as the originals. Take a close look at a picture of Optimus Prime and do whatever the hell you can to make it work god damn it!
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wouldn't be designed to look like garbage trawls - they would still retain a more iconic design.
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...for all the Flames on Optimus=Nipples on Batman posts. Because its true. The designs in this film stray too far from the cartoon and toys. You have characters like Starscream and Optimus who have been around for 25 years and look NOTHING like the way they do in this movie. The producers/director made a huge mistake when they tried to render these characters in a realistic manner-theres nothing remotely realistic about The Transformers. We never cared as kids that a 50 foot robot turned into a handgun,why would we care now?
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from the start. They used the Prime classic design at ComicCon. Then they started lying about things - first the Mars Rover trailer, then the designs, then the script. They should just own up to the movie they made. Instead, they're backed into a corner and making cracks about the fans. Real smart.
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for "totally lacking in imagination". You're dealing with sci-fi fantasy and the best you can come up with is to reverse engineer the robots? Nevermind that reverse engineering means that they're made by....people. Huh.
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for "totally lacking in imagination". You're dealing with sci-fi fantasy and the best you can come up with is to reverse engineer the robots? Nevermind that reverse engineering means that they're made by....people. Huh.
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"My bad."
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we've all seen the designs. They quite simply don't look enough like their namesakes. Isn't it obvious by the reaction?You take a multimillion dollar property and you should ATLEAST be intelligent enough to research the material and find out what is going to make people happy and......what's going to piss them off! Well it's quite obvious Bay never did either of those things.
Transformers have a following still because they were f'ing cool. If turning into cars was all it was then we'd be talking about the GoBot movie right now. But noone gives a rat's ass about GoBots because they just aren't Transformers. -
completely disregard everything you see and pay $10 before you can evaluate the film. Like there is not enough to go on at this point. That's just ridiculous, sorry!
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Okay, to my friends Superninja, Yack, etc. Yeah, I said I wouldn't be back until after July 4th for TF TBs. Technically, I won't be talking about TF. LOL
But when I hear a person like Industrykiller (a fine fitting screen name)go off about other people's love/like for whatever types of movies he doesn't care for, and then implies that he knows so much more as far as quality vs. lack thereof... I gotta say something!
IK, you just need to understand that people go see the movies to be entertained. Escapism. They go to see a romantic comedy to laugh and hopefully score with their significant other;) They go to see a drama to be moved. They go to see an action movie to be excited. It's that simple. That's why movies like ID4, Any Matthew McConnaughey romantic comedy, Armegeddon, Wild Hogs, Norbit, etc.etc.etc. turn such a huge profit. It doesn't mean they are inferior. It means they were made to do what people wanted them to do. Entertain. I think we can agree that most of us here love some movies that others would consider to be pretty shitty. Fuck man, to this day I love SIDE OUT. I love WATERWORLD. What's wrong with that? Nothing. I also love PULP FICTION, GODFATHER, A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE, ETC. Don't be ignorant and come in here challenging other people's viewpoints on a movie, implying that if they like movie x, then they are just settling for less. Movies entertain. That's what they are there for. Hey, you hate what the powers that be are doing to TF, fine. I respect that opinion. Write as many TBs as you want. Go nuts. But judging somebody on what they LIKE or are EXCITED about is in short, pretty lame.
To paraphrase you, it's SAD sometimes to see an individual so SEEMINGLY full of themselves to the point where they can challenge someone's love/knowledge for film based on their difference of opinion from yours. It's really sad. Frack, saying how you're angry that the people that differ from you shouldn't be on this site and that you're a part of some cinematic elite community here at AICN. Blows my mind... that ignorance matched with arrogance. Different people like different things. Not everyone loves chocolate ice cream, IK. Just because you do doesn't make you some dessert carnisoure (how the fuck do you spell that... damn French language). -
vulgar personal attacks on AICN, but Industry Killer has somehow gone too far! LOL! You know what? This is a website about opinions about film filled with opinionated people. Why take anything here personally?
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As pointed out,they DID have a normal looking Red semi truck with a gray trailer on display at Comic-Con. It looked just like Optimus had rolled out of a cartoon. So what do we get in the movie? An oversized Blue truck with red flames that transforms into something that looks nothing like a robot. I'm not a rabid Trans-Fan by any means-I enjoyed G1 as a kid and I realize these characters have been re-designed several times through the years. I just dont undertstand why Megatron has to look like a giant metal porcupine. And why cant Bumblebee be a yellow VW? I know VW wanted a ton of money for the rights,but wouldnt it have been worth it to either pay them or convince them what a great form of advertising it is? Christ,I see yellow VW Bugs all the time driving down the road sporting the Autobot symbol. It would have been nice to see the same thing in a multi-million dollar movie.
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low expectations and an inability to access the quality of a film is not suspect in the slightest.
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acceptable in other aspects of your life, why should you with film or any entertainment? If you let garbage in all the time, what do you think is going to happen?
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...He is simply stating that Ik's opinion came off as a put down to all who happen to want to see this movie, or are excited to. He was coming off as an Elitist...and that to put down people who are excited about it siply because he isn't, is why everyone has pretty much staked his ass 300 style on these TBs...Actually Ninja, when I saw your responses, I thought to myself "et tu superninja??" Are you really that pissed about the changing of the designs? I think there will be a difference, when we see them moving and transforming on the big screen, then the flashes we are seeing here. all we've seen of Optimus are toy box art, and the darkly shadowed stills for those magazine covers..we see him for a half second in these new teasers, and then that one shot of his head transforming from the big trailer. We really haven't SEEN him moving , gesturing, and TRANSFORMING. As far as keeping it similar to G1, I would have enjoyed that, but, I think I really would have said to myself, hmm, they DO look kinda' boxy...hmm how does that gun transform into a GIANT ROBOT after all? They took liberties on the cartoon cause as kids we didn't give a shit about those things...as grown ups, we do. Again, I HATE the flames..I still can't understand WHY they are there, but most of the other stuff, the redesigns, the more manga inspired look..I can dig it.And man GOBOTS did suck didn't it?
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I'm sold. I'll be there opening day.
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http://www.little-dudes.co.nz/comics-45 Remove the space
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Apr 01, 2007 3:08:36 AM CDT
*Designs do NOT need to be boxy to be faithful to G1.*
by gibsonusa returns
For the record.
That's the key flaw in assumption for all defenders of the horrid movie designs....that a faithful design must be as boxy as the comics. -
I am not the biggest fan of them either...I will be going into the film with the hope that these guys were able to pull them off. At least Optimus' head looks like his head from G1...and he's is red and blue...but with flames...ugghh...and Bumblebee is still yellow...but like Camaros better than VW's anyway..all the rest to me are just extra...except for Starscream and Megatron,,,and soundwave...do they have a version of soundwave in this? maybe that's what those little mini-transformers were under the guys chair? Laserbeak...ahh Laserbeak...you sneak bastard...I always hated that damed bird.
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Hmmm. This is a tough one. While I feel I did in fact walk a fine line with my previous posts, I feel in no way like I crossed one nor did I say anything that was too far off from the truth. I think it boils down to the, somehwat modern, notion that all art is subjective. Yes and no. On one hand it is subjective on a level of enjoyment. Who is to say what one can and can't enjoy, certianly not me, and that's not what i did. But art is in fact NOT subjective when it comes to quality. Some things are certainly arguable. I'll use music for this instance since it has a broad appeal. A subjective argument is "Who is better The Beatles or the Rolling Stones". That's just completely unporvable, even if the Beatles are consistently called hte best band of all time. Here is one that isn;t arguable. Who is better The Beatles of Kelly Clarkson. The Beatles wrote revolutionary songs that captured a moment in time so eloquently, beatifully, and perfectly that tot his day their music has lost not an ounce of it's magic. Kelly Clarkson won a silly competition and sang banal songs she didn't write that people don't remember 6 seconds after hearing them. It thens tands to reason that Kelly Clarkson is inferior. If you personally enjoy Kelly Clarkson more than The Beatles that is your prerogative, but don't sit around telling me one is not inferior to the other. The ability to determine such things is what separates one from the animals. One CAN in fact measure art. And no matter what you say anything can be art. A romantic comedy can be art. A horror movie can be art. And yes even an action film can be art. I'm not saying it is, or always should be high art, but it is art nontheless. So when you say something like Norbit is not inferior to films like Pulp Fiction or The Godfather that tends to err just this side of the ridiculous. And I get what you are saying, even if it is inferior people go to see it for a totally different reason than the superior film. OK fine, then they should admit that and say "This movie is inferior but it was fun." and not scream bloody murder when someone says they wish it trancended that level of inferior but fun quality into something a bit more rich. I also hold films to a higher standard. I do this for two reasons. First it's because i love it so much. In alot of ways, like many other people on this site, I;ve made it my life. I believe in it wholeheartedly and, like anything you love, you always want to push for it to succeed on any level it possibly can. The other reason is that the people who are responsible, especially for big budget genre films like this one, in no way deserve the benefit of the doubt. Since the genre heyday of the 80's the studios have fed us a steady diet of processed bullshit right down our gullets. It looked like that turned around with LOTR, but it's as bad if not worse than it ever was. The studios think you are in idiot. In fact they count on it. They count on you expecting less from them and if you excuse that behavior that is exactly what you get. If you don't think that the success of a film like Ghost Rider makes it harder for Zack Snyder to make a mature well written version of Watchmen you are living in a fucking dream world. Once they see that they can get away with murder they start the proverbial genocide. We in no way should support that sort of business practice. And one way to do that is through criticism. You don't give something a free pass just because you expected it to turn out that way. And certainly making a MASSIVE argument with that as the basis, as has been done here, holds no tangible water whatsoever. It matters not at all what I expected from Michael Bay, what matters is what I got from him. And there is no way I'm going to lower my standards especially for someone as undeserving of it as Michael Bay. And moreover my standards where not that high for the Transformers film contrary to popular belief. As for saying "Boy you guys whine alot", now thats on a whole new level of bullshit. Whining = wrong? What the fuck? We aren't working out picking crops in a field whining about the heat when we have to do the work anyway, we are talking about a movie. It's not whining, it's criticising. This is not something that MUST be accepted, so "whining" is more than apt. By that measure of logic I guess anything bad that happens should just be accepted and one should just move along without stopping to actually call out said bad event. I think that is being far more of a pussy than this so called whining. Switching gears to what I said about this website and those who inhabit it, I said nothing eevn remotely false. This site is now frequented more and more by people whose taste for film is very watered down. Not that they don't like good films as well, but they certianly like plenty of bad ones. WHat bothers me about this is that this site has a certain amount of influence and gets read and monitored by people in certain positions. People who love Michael Bay are not the sort of people I want controlling internet buzz on a film. Not even Michael Bay, let's ignore him actually. People who love just about EVERYTHING THEY SEE are not the sort of people I want representing me. You see I want good films to get made and greenlighted and I want directors to have more influence on their final product and when you have people saying "blowing shit up is all that matters" then that is a very sad fucking thing. They are, quite simply apologists. They can be called that more accurately than the cries of "hater" they lob because, instead of arguing quality with actual facts culled from the subject matter, they say things like "It's not SUPPOSED to be good in the first place!" I mean the mere idea that something, from the start, is designed totally devoid of quality and we are supposed to spend money to see it and LIKE it, because it simply IS that way, regardless is such an idiotic concept it just blows my mind. It's sort of a roundabout of way of an argument going "This movie isn;t going to be good because of x, y, and Z." and someone responding with "Well it is what it is and if you don't think it should be then you are a joyless bastard." Well sorry, but that dog just will not hunt. The accusation of "hater" only applies when one lobs a similar argument tot eh apologists above. I have never done that. In fact I;ve made it crystal fucking clear, with direct examples from the script what I don't like about this film. Whether you agree with my arguments or not that is a point you cannot deny. They at least exist. I won't apologise to anyone who was offended by that post for a second, in fact Im glad they were offended. One should TRY to offend people like that. Loving everything is not love for film. those are two totally seperate things. In fact one is in direct opposition to the other. I'm always fascinated by this trend of getting pissed off when anyone attempts to take the high road in their tastes. It reminds me of when people used to criticise George W. Bush's intelligence and his supporters would literally say "I like that he isn't smart, it makes him more like a regular guy." Now I'm sure everything I just said will be construed as "I want a Transformers movie that combines the mental tansgression of a Lynch film combined with the hyper realism of early Scorcese but with language similar to the writing of Paul Schrader." even know I've said nothing of the sort. I've stated why I may want more than "shit blowing up" I guess how much more will be taken however the reader wants to take it.
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At one point they were gonna have Soundwave be the helicopter (since he deploys other units like Scorponok from his body like Soundwave did his tapes), then went with Soundwave being the 5-foot tall robot/boombox you see in this new commercial, only called "Soundbyte" instead. They eventually scrapped that notion and renamed him Frenzy, to hint at Soundwave's presence for an appearance in a sequel. And on an unrelated note- the whole "the origianl designs were too boxy" argument seems kind of lame- no one EVER complained about that before, up until the movie makers used that as an excuse to justify these new designs. If they had gone with more recognizable designs faithful to the intent of the original design aesthetics from the start (with obviously needed tweaks, like extra articulation joints where needed), no one would have ever complained about them looking "too boxy". But now that that poor argument is out there, fine if you take the originak designs as too boxy, then there are at least a dozen other options that don't go from one extreme to the other like these current film designs do.
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Isn't that a staple of EVERY Transformers show EVER? Sounds like things are right on track. I won't pay money to see it, but I'll think about and finally decide it would be money better spent on beer and weed. Then I'll dl a screener for free.
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has been writing some excellent posts that deconstruct some of the wild accusations thrown at the likes of Superninja and I etc. and the arguments we make against this film. These posts have unsurprisingly been largely ignored. But I would like to acknowledge them. I would also, for the umpteenth time, like to acknowledge the terrible typing in the post above. I actually tried to proof read it this time but I have the attention span of a coked up ferret. Anyone who feels like reading it I'm sure can glean my meaning.
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thanks Michael Bay!!!!
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You lost me there as soon as you shot yourself in the foot by saying 'you can't argue that The Beatles are better than Kelly Clarkson', you did such a fine job of wiping your arse on your own argument that you lost all credibility for me and I didn't even read on. Do you know what 'subjective' actually means? To continue your musical theme, If I said that The Beatles were shite, that would be subjective - no-one can tell me I am wrong, because it's my opinion. If I was to say that The Beatles wrote Stairway to Heaven, then I would be factually wrong - this can be disputed. Your analogy was absolute horse-shite; The Beatles have had more No 1 singles than Kelly Clarkson - fact; liking one over the other - pure opinion - subjective. And it doesn't matter HOW you choose to phrase it 'better', 'superior'; whatever - still just opinion. Using your logic, this new Transformers movie will be much better than the cartoon because the quality of the images will be much more superior. You crossed the line into incredible arrogance, and now you're trying to back-pedal over it on a unicycle, juggling custard pies, whilst wearing huge fucking comedy clown shoes. Nobody's laughing either - it's sad.
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That was the funniest and truest post on here so far. Each time IndustryKiller comes back to defend his position he comes across as an even bigger dickhead. Bravo for putting that point across so eloquently.Phategod. As i recall i think i pretty much started to ignore your stupidity on the previous talkbacks about the subject matter of the models. At no point did i come across as condescending ala IndustryKiller, i simply pointed out a fact that the G1 designs would not work in a high detail 3D environment. Infact, i even had people like Hairy Nutsack et al actually agree with my point in the end. I think i explained it fairly eloquantly but you're so blinded by your anger you refuse to accept any logical post that adopts a stance contrary to your own belief. Fact is you're full shit, you've just said that models aren't an issue for you and in the same post, resorted to your old argument that if students can make 30 second you tube clips then ILM can too. So for the umpteenth time let me explain this in plain fucking English. It can't be done. Models consisting of basic cube shapes cannot move in a realistic manner. Animation, despite all your anti-realism arguments, is 99.9% based on recreating the physcial laws of the universe. Hope that clears the issue up for you.
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I would say you can objectively say the following are facts: The Beatles are far more innovative than Kelly Clarkson. The Beatles are more musically talented (even Ringo!!!) than Kelly Clarkson. The Beatles have contributed more to our culture than Kelly Clarkson has. More people have been inspired to greatness by the Beatles than by Kelly Clarkson.
In ALL respects, except - which one a particular individual actual prefers, the Beatles are superior to Kelly Clarkson. I'd also say the way in which we as a culture rate what's good, what's great, what's trash, what's fun trash etc etc is based on the previous types of comparisons. While I don't agree with Industry Killer's elitism I have to agree he has a point in regards to being able to measure and compare various products or works of art. -
They were never going to have the movie start off with this kid buying his first car and it being a VW with a mind of its own were they?
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Michael Bay and Hollywood at large are always banking on the former.
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are Ravage or Rumble or the other two or three that Soundwave used to eject out of himself but I can't remember their name. I'm sure that Soundwave and his mini decepticons have been retooled for the film seeing as the Boombox and cassette tapes went out in the 80's. I may be wrong, but I thought for sure I read that Soundwave is going to be in the movie.
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There's nothing wrong in being sceptical about this movie. How many times have we seen what looks like a good film in quick-edit trailors only to be completely underwhelemed when we've paid our money and watched it from beginning to end? Yeah, thought so. If, on the other hand, you like everything you've been spoon-fed and believe Shoddywood are making movies people really want to see then (as Obi Wan uttered) "You ARE truly lost!"
This is nothing more than another Godzilla, Day After Tomorrow, War of the Worlds, Independence Day, Van Helsing, Hulk, Wild Wild West, The Island, Pearl Harbour, Armageddon merchandise rip-off. For those that are so fucking wet and retarded you can't see it, then it's YOU that should go fuck yourselves... maybe you can use your movie tie-in toys as a sex aid!! For the time being, I won't be holding my breath that this won't be another huge dissapointment. You just wait and see... dumbfuckers!! -
dear lord this movie will suck.
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The evaluation of a piece of art is not purely subjective. You can ask questions like does music x have artistic merit? How does that artistic merit stack up to music y. By doing this it would be easy to construct an arguement using reason and fact that the Beatles are far superior artistically to Kelly Clarkson. This does not mean that my preference to listen to Kelly Clarkson is in any way invalid. It just means for entertainment I sometimes enjoy Robots blowing each other up instead of Kurt Russell reciting Ezra Pound. As I recited this to Kurt Russell he turned and smiled, so I must be right.
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Thanks for the long post. Finely delivered save for some paragraph/separation. I enjoyed it and agree wholeheartedly.
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"his is nothing more than another Godzilla, Day After Tomorrow, War of the Worlds, Independence Day, Van Helsing, Hulk, Wild Wild West, The Island, Pearl Harbour, Armageddon"
I enjoyed -- and own -- every one of those movies except Godzilla (yuck) and War of the Worlds (it was so-so). Do they have a lot of critical or artistic merit? Not a drop. But I still liked 'em, and a few of 'em I'll still watch every now and then. So there. *Plblblblblblbt.* -
All the problems stated by he/she are ones that are plaguing not only this flick, but damn near every single movie getting made and sure as long as they make money, they'll keep shitting 'em out. When I heard that Spielberg was exec producing this I was really hyped but it seems that he never had the love he claimed to for the Transformers or it wouldn't be looking like this.
This film will be another "coulda been" Giant robots blowing shit up does not have to make for a 2 hour commercial full of unrecognizable garbage. The Iron Giant was a huge fucking robot and he blew shit up and that is still one of the best animated films ever because it had heart. Put the heart into a movie and no matter if it's about giant robots, talking bugs or whatever, it will make for a film that can be watched 10 years from now and not be laughed at as this one will surely be. -
I believe Harry & Quint have expressed a barely cautious optimism. It seems like they have been thrown a bit by the robot designs as well. However, due to some sort of relationship that allegedly exists between AICN and DeSanto, they have remained relatively mute on the subject. I imagine they won't have much more to say until the film comes out. On the other hand, I believe Mori has stated that he really has no vested interest in the "Transformers" as a franchise since he was never a fan. I think he's just waiting to see an entertaining film. That's what I've gathered so far, at least.
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It's been confirmed that Soundwave is NOT in the movie. The "buzzdroid" that BSB was referring to is Frenzy.
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I just watched that again last night. Damn, that is an excellent movie. I miss cel animation.
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Iron Giant = tightness. A fine film. I'm even bold enough to consider it a classic. It even has, dare I say it, some allegory.
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Legit or not, are you surprised?
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I thought they were called insecticons. And they play music? WHOAW! Is it "metal"? And who rolls stones? I know dung beetles roll dung, but there wasn't a dung beetle with the insecticons. I'm confused.
Is this still about transformers? Are the insecticons in the movie? -
Dude, put your energy into something more positive. Michael Bay and hollywood only make shit because you are incapable of seeing it as anything else.
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deeper problems with the film. When you have an iconic design it's pretty dumb to deviate from it too far to begin with. But I don't think anyone was expecting a direct translation - simply for it to be faithful to the spirit of what they claim they are basing it on. I don't think that's the case here.
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You know, I thought about that and brought it up in TB once. All those other robot-themed franchises will now officially be labeled as "Transformers rip-offs" after this movie...regardless of whether it's a failure or success.As for WETA's pre-production work on Evangelion, I believe Richard Taylor has already said that the project has been indefinitely shelved. However, he also stated that it is one project he is most looking forward to exploring should it get picked up.
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Looks like a lot a fun, actually looking forward to it on the sly.
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http://tinyurl.com/36gdakIt's even more G1 than we thought!
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That is how the script reads, to be kind.
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It's not entirely subjective. Art used to be invested with meaning and symbolism, now it largely is not. They have an exhibit in a museum right now which is a mirror, so the art is yourself. Profound, I'm sure. However, that does accurately reflect how everyone thinks about art now. If you can't really defend why you like something in a way that conveys some kind of meaning or content, I am always skeptical of your view that it is "good". Of course we all like bad things for entertainment purposes, we've all done that, but then bad becomes the normal standard, I think we have a problem.
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???? this is the transformers. its really kind of simple. and its michael bay, so we are going to et an enjoyable non work of art that will appeal to and please the masses. AGAIN, I ASK IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT? if you think thats a bad thing, then you are watching certain movies for all the wrong reasons, and cant be a very happy person.
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Film and art in general, and Transformers in specifics. This movie is a classic case of Hollywood degrading the quality of the source material and then claiming erroneously that they have somehow improved it. This is not the case to anyone thinking clearly. Giant robots beating each other up is not a good enough reason to make a movie - yet that is what is being claimed. That is not a movie, that is an action setpiece. Do you seriously think good special effects are enough to carry a film? People are just not that impressed by special effects anymore. I don't think anyone here doubted the quality of the work by the effects house, but it needs at the very least a decent story with likeable characters to carry it along. In this case, I would even go so far as to say that making the Transformers secondary characters defeats the entire purpose of making a Transformers film. Bay is simply making some action setpieces strung together by an annoying story about human characters that is not innovative and they are trying to act like they are doing something fresh and new. It's is simply not the case. Innovative would've been to make the Transformers the main characters and humans as the background characters. That would've been an enormous task, but that is the kind of challenge TF should present, not this mediocrity.
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No doubt. However, this movie had potential to update things in a palatable fashion. Elevate past the toy commercial facade and appeal to more than just children and those with childlike mentalities Potential. Oh, I don't know, elevate the story like Simon Furman and others have done. So much material to draw from and this is what Hasbro greenlights?
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when the whole point of He-Man is the setting of Eternia. Like those filmmakers, Bay & Co. are just trying to make a quick buck at the expense of the source material. You can say whatever you want about the quality of the He-Man cartoon, but to say that people want to see an Earth-bound He-Man and that this an improvement on the He-Man story is patently false.
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seriously, how good do you really think this cartoon is? especially now that you are an adult. the source material for this movie was made to sell toys. sure the characters have very simple and straight forward character traits which im sure can and could very well be translated into the movie no matter how they look. but regardless, the cartoon is not a masterpiece by any means the way a lot of you are making it seem to
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The cartoon is not the only canon to draw from. Have you really been reading these TBs. What's the Bay Street Team pay?
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what the cartoon established. The thing is, it has been fleshed out into a fairly sophisticated mythology over the years. That is why people still love the toys, because the characters represent those ideas. For instance, the Autobot and Decepticon symbols are very popular now as tattoos and stickers on vehicles. Now ask yourself - is that about TOYS, or what the Autobots and Decepticons represent as an idea or symbol? It's the idea. Ideas matter, what films communicate matter. I still think all of the characters are very good iconic characters, as good as anything pop culture has produced, certainly as good as the original Star Wars.
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with relevant themes. It could've been incredible if they focused on the nature of freedom vs tyranny that is deeply imbedded in the TF story. It needn't be politicized because that is what the characters were created to stand for. But scarcity of natural resources is what brings them to Earth and then both sides have a completely different response as to how to deal with this, a completely different view on sanctity of life, on the nature of power and how it should be used. The Autobots aren't interested in ruling Cybertron - they want to be free from Decepticon tyranny.
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fraction of you compared to the people who are going to see this movie who beleive everything you all beleive so strongly. that simply means to everyone else, it is either a stupid toy comercial, or it is now a cool action movie. i guess it sucks to be the few of you, but in the grand scheme of things, theres really not nearly enough of these supposed hard-core fans. im not saying there arent a lot of transformers fans, i know there are, but not like the people on this site. so yeah, be mad all you want, but i think its dumb because its not gonna get you anything, so just go with the change, and try and enjoy it.
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No one would actually argue on the level. They pick out ONE tuny part of the argument and call names like "elitist!" because I said The Beatles are better than Kelly Clarkson. *Shakes head and laughs* Long live political correctness nowadays around AICN I guess. ALso Tom Bodet, how exactly are you gleaming that I was always going to hate this film? In fact when Bay was first announced as director I was one of the only guys in the talkback saying it could be a good thing, as the budgets he gets tend to be astronomical. I have since changed my opinion and I have done so based on hard cold facts that we know about the film combined with personal distaste for Michael Bay's particular style, which is well set in stone at this point. If anything you argument against me is the unsubstantiated one. I can't wait for the Evangelion movie to come out, be watered down to unregonizablity and hear people recycle the same old "It's shit blowing up isnt that great!" mentality.
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I have to ask myself as a 26 year old man, "Why are there people bitching about a movie that revolves around giant robots?" I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but the Transformers were great toys and a shitty cartoon. The Snorks was of better quality. I've seen a few posts about how they're going to get the "characterzations" wrong? Excuse me, but this isn't William Faulkner. The only thing I remember about any of their personalities is that Starscream was a whiny coward. That's it far characterizations. And the designs? Do you really want a 34 foot robot to transform into a pistol that a human can carry? Do you really want that boxiness? you guys are complaining that the visual directors of this movie aren't following the example put forth by mid-80s toy commercials. And in case you missed the little tidbit about how long it takes to render the frames in which the robots appear, the reason why there's going to be more humans is because: A) It would take to long B) It would be too expensive. Plus, what's to really know about these robots? Their personalities can be summed up in one line of dialogue. Examples: Optimus says, "I'm the leader and I'm selfless." Megatron says, "I'm the EVIL leader and I'm violent." Starscream, "I like to scheme." Jazz, "I like to have fun." And so on and so forth.
My point is that this is a summer movie based on a toyline that came out before the Challenger exploded. If they tweak things, big deal. Hell, I hate Michael Bay. The lighting techniques he uses makes all his movies look like the video for "Janie's Got a Gun" and he never uses static shot. That being said, I'm going to go see this because the previews look great, and I'm not going to worry myself about the artistic merits of a 2 hour long toy commercial. I think I'd rather debate whether or not all of "Gravity's Rainbow" can be understood after one reading... -
this long. Would Bay & Co. even paid attention if it were just about toys? Of course not. Your point is repeated for the 1,000th time and it gets no more valid. It's straw.
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...it's "believe"."I" before "E", buddy.
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"Would Bay & Co. even paid attention if it were just about toys? Of course not" bay set out to make this NOT a toy movie. also, i think its fair to say he signed on because spielberg PICKED HIM, and because the possibilities for action sequences are aamzing. not because of the transformers mythology. and i know thats exactly where a big problem for you lays, but i think for everyone else, thats great news.
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view of the film? Ouchee?
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is that this movie isn't made just for you. You are a small fraction of the people who will go to see it and it doesn't make any difference that you whine over flames or the designs of the robots. It wouldn't even make any difference if you all boycotted the film. Basically what I'm saying is that you don't really matter.
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"not because of the transformers mythology. and i know thats exactly where a big problem for you lays, but i think for everyone else, thats great news." That's what it boils down to man. Some of us wanted it closer to the source material, some don't care. That isn't going to change. We have begun to repeat ourselves at this point. I don;t know how many times I've typed "I DIDN'T want boxy ROBOTS!!!!" or soemthing of the ilk. Colonel Activities played out argument in the post above is just further prove that there isn't really anywhere else to go until the film comes out and this all starts anew with problems/good things that we haven't even seen yet.
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DIGG this, TFW2005 has been replaced.. LOL http://digg.com/movies/Transmorphers_Big_April_Fools_Day_Joke_Transformers_Fans_Rejoice_Bitch#c5954920
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I am not going to change my perception of something just because some Hollywood hacks are going to make money off it. You argue that point as if that is a good thing. "HAHAHA Hollywood people are making money at the expense of fans" Why the hell, as an average Joe filmgoer, would you want that? Why would any normal person root for the studio?
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doesn't matter, either. All that matters is money and not opinions. I'll vote with my money in this case and voice my opinions where I can.
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What say I? Not much really. The complaints sound the same as just about everyone elses. So, it doesn't feel like anything we haven't read/heard before. Don't get me wrong, I cringe at the idea of the "My bad" line being left in, too.I love the whole "The main human character is an annoying twat" thing though. That's just kind of a laughable subjective observation that sounds like it's based in Shia hate. But to each his own, I suppose.Did you see my earlier post addressed to you?
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Whether or not the movie is made for fans. It would still be better if they made it more like the original. They are sidelining great story angles and interesting, unique story angles for a bland generic one. We've read the script.
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justify why we should accept this as a Transformers movie. By their own standards, I could adapt anything, make it relatively nothing like what I'm claiming to adapt, and then say that everyone who liked the original work should accept my new work because I am a filmmaker. Give me a break. To make it worse, I then start leaking material and then lying about my motives once fans of the original work realize that I have pulled a fast one. That they actually wanted something that was shallow. All I've done is reveal my own lack of understanding of the source material. If they had appeared to add anything to the TF concept, people would not be complaining - instead they have been reductive and reduced it to an action setpiece, a toy.
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IndustryKiller!, superninja, et al: if the designs were exact replicas of the cartoons, how critical of this movie do you think you would be despite having read that draft script?
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lot of stuff going far back I thought I addressed you, though.
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and what happens to the boat. That is some of the best work Cameron has ever done. It was the effects that won cameron the oscar and the fact that the film was way over budget. The Dialoug was awful, the acting was horrendus. And it heas decade for Leo's career to recover and he is a much better actor. point is. no one will be going to see for the character designs or the acting. IT is a big budget action film director by someone who knows exactly what he is doing. Hate him all you like bay knows what he is doing. This film is designed for the big screen. Bay strength is that none of his films look crap. they all look great. This will be no different. And to the people who are going on about ford and Connery. Both of those actors are past it and there box office glory days are over. Bay wil never win an oscar.
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not the designs. Perhaps I would be even more annoyed, frankly. :) Can you really say, Gaius, in all honesty, you think that the direction of this film is superior to the high concept (not the execution) of the cartoon?
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is when the ship sinks. You're really not helping your case. Yes, Bay is using the Titanic formula (again) much like he did with Pearl Harbor.
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that would really depend. See My main focus throughout this argument has been the script. It's the people Im arguing against that have turned this whole design thing into a monster. If the script were more accurate with more focus on the actual Transformers and their character I would be alot happier. That is NOT to say I don't understand there had to be a heavier human element to teh film in order to make it accessible, but I also would have liked the human characters to just be "just ok"(like most decent action films) instead of burn the paper its printed on awful. So its really more the script not the designs.
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As bad as Titanic was, the action still had alot of emotion due to character that were built up over the previous two hours. This script has no characters, and the dialogue is evern WORSE than Titanic. And no matter what you think of Titanic, Bay has never directed anything on its level and its doubtful he ever will as hes already hit his creative ceiling.
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directly earlier, unless you mean a day ago in that case that's a lot of posts if you wouldn't mind repeating your point.
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Simply horrible. Maybe they can do a sequel to Final Wars where Godzilla kills Zilla again along with Prime In Name Only and Megatron In Name Only. Well, as long as they never degrade my precious She-Ra with an unnecessary film I will let this pass. ^_^
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Bad throwaway romance with some good effects thrown in. Tacked on "realistic" fantasy elements are the exception here, but its about on par with Armageddon in terms of imagination.
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all it had going for it, the script is terrible. Rose is a slut (excuse me "modern" woman) and Jack is a cad (excuse me again, "free spirit"). The only thing that makes them winsome is Jack died like a man. If Jack had lived he'd have run off to bag other chicks and gamble away his money leaving Rose to go crawling back to her family, because that's the kind of guy Jack is.
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Did Michael Bay confuse him with the Predacon Tantrum? Some people will continue to eat this shit up, and say oh it doesn't matter it's just a movie, oh but it's a movie that had much more potential than Michael "Hack Director" Bay could deliver.
I blame the writers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman for the lame script and slang lines. They did afterall write scripts for jack of all trades, a show that was CAMP.
bay is still a dick and he failed to deliver a Transformers film. I hope this haunts him like GINO has.
Not one Japanese designer was consulted on this movie. This property started life in Japan and it was only right the creators were consulted Takara LTD now Tomy.
FUCK BAY, his creative team for the lame script and robot designs. -
Should be replaced by Dusty Rhodes (Prime) and Ric Flair (Megatron)
Megs: Whoooooo! What's causin' all this!
Prime: Megatron, if you will, your decepticons need to ride to anothe planet cause I reserved the stratosphere for you and me. Cause ever since I was the itty bitty bot of a Cybertronian plumber, I knew one day I would be the Cybertron Dream
Megs: Whoooooo!
...yeah this is good pot -
Hasbro, the writers and Murphy. Bay is an afterthought/non-issue. If he had a great script to work with I cannot foresee that there would be so much "hate" out there. Stop hinging all the apologies on how good Bay does action, that TF began as a toy or that everyone wants a cartoon. Murphy picked up G.I. Joe and Transformers due mainly the 80's nostalgia spurt and how the comics still sell today. Just look at all the many G.I. Joe and Transformers series, minis, off-shoots, elseworlds et. al. that come out every month. The Megatron Origin story starting in a few months looks tight. Milne's work is boss.
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I would've liked to have seen a Beast Wars movie. A much better cohesive Transformers arc.
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However, if someone had amazingly enough got Bay to direct a really good script, I agree we wouldn't in all likelyhood be complaining much.
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I know you didn't specify my name, but I sort of think of myself as being on the same team as IndustryKiller and superninja in this debate, so I'll answer as well. If the designs looked closer to the cartoon, it would not change my opinion of the movie. Yeah, I was a little weirded out when I first saw some leaked design pictures, but not enough to give me a hate-on for the movie. It's everything since then that has me worried. I haven't liked a single one of the trailers, I don't like the dialogue I have seen, what I know of the plot sounds stupid, I've hated the marketing decisions, and I'm not even too keen on the way the action seems to be filmed. I think I'm gonna side with superninja; I think I would be even more annoyed if they had kept the same designs but made a dumb movie. At least this way it is easier to distance the two properties.
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transforming costumes are more creative and budget friendly than Bay! Hahahh.
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He could have rejected it, true. But look at his past "efforts". It would be nice to see him make some good creative choices and grow as a filmmaker. However Carey left G.I. Joe since Hasbro wouldn't let him take the story down the path he wanted. Hasbro is crazy controlling of G.I. Joe and TF. They get final say on EVERYTHING as I am sure you well know. They are the tools that approved the crappy "script" and Bay is just honored that Speilberg asked him to direct this moneymaker. Just my spin. Flame away kids, flame away.
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Ha! That was supposed to be my April Fool's Joke for you guys. I'm glad someone checked the link!
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director for me. He is responsible for the film that is his job. I'm not saying it's an easy job. Hasbro signed a contract that I'm sure gave Bay & Co. plenty of freedom, I doubt they dictated the story points. Yackbacker is right that the draft script seemed tailor-made for Bay - Bay is not reaching here or innovating in the slightest. I don't know the story about GI Joe or if Carey was trying to mess with the concept too much.
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It's about characters, the high concept is nothing new at this point and it does not require a lot of crazy FX - not anything beyond Battlestar, anyway.
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With candy-colored Eternia and not some "realistic" Conan BS that we've seen 100 times already. I'd rather see THAT than a Captain Marvel movie which is essentially the same concept.
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I said I would never do this but you pussies leave me no choice. Why are you whining about this movie? The animated movie (which I love by the way) was a box office bomb so the mere fact that a $300 million summer tent-pole is being made by Bay/Speilberg is a MIRACLE in and of itself. They're TOYS. As long as there are robots that turn into vehicles then it's "Two thumbs up, bitches!" Any one of you larping faggots that thinks this is Shakespeare or some kind of grand mythology that's not to be fucked with should just kill yourselves. You've already been pwned by those TV clips. Crawl back into your Mommie's cunts. I'm out.
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the movie on your level. Sounds a little hypocritical to me.
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Making Bumblebee almost the same size as a human made him a great entry point to the other TF characters. He was extremely relateable. This is after viewing parts of the More Than Meets the Eye pilot on YouTube. I'm not sure if you linked the Sherman Dam fight to be sarcastic, Gaius, but the dialogue in that scene is actually really fun and the same idea of Prime baiting Megatron during the fight so he would slip up makes it a nice scene. Despite that the animation isn't stellar.
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Flee superninja flee!
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This year is awesome.
Cannot wait for Spider-man 3, POTC3, F4:ROTSS, Live free or die hard, Transformers, Harry potter 5, The simpsons, Bourne ultimatum. -
created an AICN account just to make his first/last such outstanding persuasive arguement.
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RE: the "high concept" of the cartoon - Well, it depends on what you feel the concept to be. Is it really more than two warring faction of robots from an alien planet bring their conflict to Earth?To quote Orci: "How about the Autobots, lead by Optimus Prime, battle the Decepticons, lead by Megatron, in their quest for replenishing energy for their planet. Sam Witwicky gets caught in the middle. Sound familiar?" In this particular case, the "energy source" is the Allspark - granted it's the film's MacGuffin. But as the chosen MacGuffin, it's the source of life for the Transformers and therefore a source worthy of their attention.Now, I've not read the entire draft script as most of you appear to have done. I read a few beginning pages and decided that I did not want to spoil the overall story for myself. But I can already tell you that Prime's probably got more lines in the opening narration than in all of the animated film. I can also say that I believe they are going for a much more serious tone than anything seen before in the franchise. (That alone is what made me think this could be cool in the first place.) Now, is it more serious or high-minded that there's a scene where a dog pees on Ironhide's foot? Probably not. (If it were MY film, I'd have Ironhide vaporize the dog, no questions asked.) But this film is intended to appeal to people of all ages - kids, adults, latent fans, and hardcore types.So, in answer to your question, I say yes. That does NOT mean the direction has been successful. (I don't know about you, I've yet to actually see the final intended film.) But we have to keep in mind that this "concept" has to be told in a 2 hour time frame and it must deliver to a mass audience while working cinematically. There are a lot of elements to consider and a lot of sources of information to choose from. I just realized that I'm rambling here because I'm multi-tasking at the moment. I hope this is a somewhat worthy answer!
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I haven't heard so much namecalling since second grade yet apparently I'm the asshole for saying that The Beatles are better than Kelly Clarkson and arguing, not without reason mind you, that art is not a purely subjective concept. Logic just shot itself in the fucking face. Pussy, nerd, faggot (love that bigotry!), elitist (in towering defiance to the other names), the list just goes on and the hypocracies grow fat.
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Thank goodness that was your last post. Your TB-Fu is not good.
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and trust me man I understand that the film had to have all those elements. But if you had kept on with the script you would have seen where it falls short in that realm. Like we've all said before, superninja and I and our ilk are well aware of the changes that needed to be made but it almost seems, from the script, that the changes werent made for any specific purpose. From beginning to end its just one lazy writing cliche after the next. I dont think anyone conciously said "OK here is the Transformers mythology and concepts we have to work with, but here is what has to go and what gets to stay" It seems that the only thing the writer even knew about TF before tackling the script is that there are robots that Transform. AS for Primes involvment in the film not being as huge. That is ok because teh film comes right out of the cartoon, where Prime is the main character. The cartoon movie was extending the mythology of the entire Transformers line, not attempting to reinvent it in a new format. In that already established world the character of Prime was already very well known.
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minded response. But you are still avoiding the issue with the high concept - being that the Transformers are the main characters and not the humans. I am asking if you feel that Bay's approach is innovative or is it just sort of more of the same? Bay can do this kind of stuff in his sleep, regardless of whether you view the film as good or bad. What is the point in making a Transformers movie when they are not the main characters driving the story? Also, I take issue with the idea that realism and darker tone in and of themselves make a story more mature.
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whatever the hell you want. It is your opinion, so fuck it, say it. Do I agree with everything you say? Hell no, but everyone here has the right to post his/her opinion. The key word being "opinion" and no one has the right to tell you that your opinion is wrong.
And for you people that bash others that disagree with you and you start calling them haters, congratulations! you just become one yourself.
I am so glad we have a Talkback that does not censor. Thanks aintitcool. -
do not think the film was more mature than the best of the comic book stories, I felt it was reductionist. Of course with film that is always an issue because of the timeframe involved, as you have mentioned. But there are ways around that as you know, even in an action movie simply via expositional dialogue.
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opinion is wrong. That's what goes on here all the time. You just can't deprive them of their opinion. :)
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for the sake of not getting sidetracked. We are aware that there needed to be a human element as sort of an avatar for the audience into the film. Just that at some point I'm sure it would have been possible for the writer to artfully switch the focus over the the robots to glean more character from them. And c'mon, I dont think anyone here would have argued with MORE robot action and focus. Especially because the humans are so poorly written.
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superninja if I am somehow out of synch with what you are saying on that last post.
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size and personality being so crucial because he's the entry point for Spike to the other Transformers. He's very likeable almost adopts the humans immediately, which as a relational thing you can kind of understand - he knows what it's like to be the little guy.
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telling someone their opinion is wrong is their opinion, so that is a valid point. I guess what I meant to say was that an opinion is not really meant to be seen as a fact, therefore it could not be called right or wrong.
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about stuff on the internet in general. People should not take themselves so seriously. Transformers, on the other hand....LIVE FREE OR DIE!
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Bumblebee in the script, while highly likeable, is sort of soulless without the ability to speak. I guess we'll have to see how it comes off int he film. But I would say to people don't let affability fool you into thinking there is character there.
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And has no real face. Sort of a void that reduces the character to the cutsey trick akin to female characters standing around singing with hairbrushes so oft used in RomComs.
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that is used to deliver all the bad jokes.
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Apr 01, 2007 4:55:07 PM CDT
----------The G1 cartoon had the perfect human element.
by gibsonusa returns
Call G1 a shallow kids' cartoon, but I think it handled the human element better than any subsequent TF series. Spike (with his father Sparkplug) observing these giant robot beings and reacting to them (in essence representing us), and writing down in a journal his thoughts on his magnificient this Autobot society/team was.
But that's just it, they were merely the observers. The Autobots and Decepticons were the stars of the show. Spike would watch in awe as Prime sacrificed himself for his friends and what he believed in, and seeth in anger at Megatrons indifference towards man....and he would write this feelings down in a journal, in essence narrating the film from a human perspective. That was PERFECT. -
to take. To essentially treat it as a war movie with Spike and his dad as the "green" soldiers enlisted into their guerilla war. If I made a Green Lantern movie that is the approach I would take except make it an intergalactic war.
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IndustryKiller! (great handle BTW) - I've learned that despite what Bay, Orci & Co. have said about their improvements to the script (more characterization, more robot screentime, more dialog, new scenes), that it's just no use. They've pretty much stated that they've tried to make it at LEAST 50/50 with regards to humans & robots. But they've also acknowledged that not everyone will be happy with the least of improvements. So, I can't really argue for them as their own defense is generally ignored. (The original script was written by John Roberts. Orci & Kurtzman took over and have written numerous drafts and variations since. They along with Spielberg were the ones to pitch it to Bay. All of them felt he was the Man to handle the scope of the set pieces.) If what you wanted was not in the draft script, it pretty much means the final film is the last hope and vestige for something better.superninja - I don't really think I've avoided the "high concept" at all. I thought I pretty much nailed it. In an "origin" film like this, there are lots of factors to consider. Sam and the humans do serve a purpose in relation to the audience. They are our window looking in. But let's not forget: this is about robots in disguise. Why are they in disguise? Humans!However, I am also worried about the amount of robot screentime. I hope that it's not too lopsided. But I'm also not a producer on this film. Otherwise, I would throw an extra $150 million at the guys at ILM and tell them to keep working. :^)
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Hulk has more artistic merit in Hulk's pinky than Transformers will have in megatron's vagina mouth. No idea if that makes sense.
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I got into a heated debate with one of my teachers who claimed that Snoop Dogg is just as big a musical genius as Mozart was. I told him to his face that he had just simultaneously destroyed his credibility and a lot of respect I had for him by saying some stupid shit like that.
Anyone who doesn't think the Beatles are better than Kelly Clarkson, even if Clarkson's music style is more to your liking, is completely ignorant of music and music history. Hell, can Clarkson even play an instrument or read sheet music? The Beatles were pioneers in the music industry, Clarkson sings other people's music, case closed. -
Apr 01, 2007 5:06:40 PM CDT
Bumblebee-the bridge between the humans and the robots.
by gibsonusa returns
One of my favorite and most memorable scenes of all the Transformers shows was during the first G1 episode when Spike is just hanging out with the Autobots for the first time. These friendly Autobots answered his questions...Mirage showed him his invisibility trick...then Hound showed him his hologram trick and took him out for a ride. It was so intimate for a cartoon. Spike represented us. This was how we as kids started to connect with these robot personalities.
As the episodes progressed, Bumblebee became the bridge between Spike and the Autobots...the one who would just hang out with us. He was closest to human size and was vert likeable...he'd be a cool human friend...yet he was an Autobot...and that made it even cooler.
Now what this new movie has done with Bumblebee was strip him of his speech, his "everyman" persona, and the above described intimacy. He's just an alien like ET now. That sucks. -
Well, to quote Monty Python, "I may not know a lot about art, but I know what I like!".Welcome back.
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I have no issue whatsoever with the height of Bumblebee. I find it much more believable and appropriate than the inconsistent representation that I remember from the cartoon. The fact that they couldn't land VW for the film has been discussed ad nauseum. So, the idea that he is much large now due to the Camaro design is a no brainer. But when you consider how much larger EVERYONE else is (because of the realistic approach to the vehicle to bot transformations), he's still the little guy. And from what I understand, his namesake is based on his appearance in robot form - not vehicle form.Sure, the Camaro is all part of the business/marketing deal (that's how they get the money). But it helps to sell the idea that this guy would even stand a chance against someone like Barricade = the smallest of the main Decepticons.I'm not too worried about the relationship between Sam and everyone's favorite brave Autobot Scout. After all, that is what old Bay on doing this film, right? :)
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Should be "much largER" and "Sold Bay". Geez.
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I have expressed my doubts in a non-hater fashion. After seeing these 2 ads my doubts are gone. The story may end up being lame but who cares I want to watch robots blow shit up for 2 hours on a Friday afternoon, not watch them recite shakespeare or show acting depth.
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I'm still recovering from my trip to Vancouver last weekend working the Stargate convention.
Actually Gaius, and any other BSG fans here, I spoke to one of the owners of Creation Entertainment and he said they were in negotiations for having BSG conventions in Vancouver along with BSG set tours like they do the Stargate set tours now. I really hope this happens as I am weeks away from having my own screen accurate new BSG flightsuit and would love to get a picture next to the set Viper while wearing it. SUH-WEET! -
he is a VW? The scale is wrong. There are other little yellow cars BB could've been. But worst of all, the personality is botched. He's like a puppy dog according to the script, he's the cutsey character. And yes, he was kind of cute in the cartoon, but they're being WAY literal with that interpretation. He was a scrapper and the "little guy" not a puppy dog.
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these parts. Yet he and bay make big, high octane action movies. Yet some of you really cant stand Bay at all. If cameron had been called instead of Bay and he decided to re-design the Transformers, would there have been much of an outcry. I dont know but becuase its bay, you all have a problem. Both men make large scale spectacle movies as does tony scott. all films stand or fall on the strenght of the script. De ja vu is perfect example of a movie that looked great but was incomprehensible.
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No way! A real BSG flightsuit? Ha, ha! That's funny, man. Let us Colonials know how that turns out.Do you usually work trade-shows and conventions?
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Bumblebee was TOTALLY the cutesy character in the show. Come on. From what I've read and seen, it looks like they're actually giving him some balls in this incarnation. (Remember, this is BASED on G1.)And how could the scale be wrong simply because he's not a Beetle? He's still the little guy.
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Now that I think about it, the first choice that Bay made that REALLY made me nervous was his decision to go with a Camero concept car for Bumblebee. I thought it was very indicative of his complete lack of understanding regarding the franchise and who these characters were. Another big point of the cartoon was that the robots transformed into vehicles that suited their personality. Why do you think Optimus was an unadorned Mack truck? To emphasize his simple, straightforward reliability. As I've said, I care more about the spirit of the original than the details, so I don't care that Bumblebee is not a bug, but just about anything would have suited his personality better than a flashy muscle car. I probably would have gone with a Mini Cooper myself, or even a freaking PT Cruiser. And don't even get me started on Prime's vehicle form. *shudder*
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He is an egomaniac. Let him create his own characters.
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Astroboy, the Smurfs and Ulysses 31. and battle of the planets. What is interesting about Battle is that orginal japanese cartoons were really violent and were re-edited by american animators for american audience to include a more moral message. Ulysses however was the longest running animated cartoon show in history or that is the way it seemed because the bloody thing would never end. It was more like the endless voyage of Ulysses!
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in the cartoon. He had a cute outside, but he was not a cutsey character. There is a different. The scale is wrong because BB is supposed to be slightly larger than a human when he is transformed. Obviously this is not an issue for the filmmakers since they made Frenzy (formerly Soundwave, the geniuses) tiny. So they certainly could've gotten the scale right.
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alone is the smurfs. But we are going to get it anyway. I hate the smurfs. the guy who ivented them was bats. He disappeared, very odd stuff. indeed.
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OK, I guess you could say that it was a bad comic, too. Pretty sure that they're just fucking toys. You know, childrens' playthings. And I know I'm going to catch shit for this, but if your childhood was defined by two dimensional characters on a cartoon show, well, then you are a sad, sad human being. Once more, I'll reiterate: This is a movie based on a toy line from the mid 80s. Get over it. We are not talking Balzac here--Christ, we're not even talking Koontz. I want one of you uber fans to describe the personalities of 10 autobots and ten decepticons each, and tell me how they're not just the same tired paradigm that's been used in 1980s cartoon, otherwise known as "Toy-selling Cartoons."
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And Steve Carrell can be Brainy. Oh, they could stock that with comedians - I could cast the whole thing right now. Robert Duvall as Papa Smurf. If someone made a really bizarre Smurf movie about conformity, that would be awesome! Actually, the Smurfs aren't really about conformity at all, but they have Red Shirt Smurfs all up in there. It can be about how nice the Smurfs look but how oppressive they really are with their PC and how their cruelty to Gargamel is unmatched.
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Hey, Colonel. Do you know where these ideas come from? Why are you attempting to differentiate between the ideas represented in the cartoon and everything else you watch? Because they all are derivative of each other. The only difference is the execution, not the ideas themselves. At least those cartoons are ABOUT something instead of most of what drives pop culture these days.
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Here I always thought it was about the idea that the vehicles that we see on the roads, in the sky, and on the water could transform into giant robots and fight each other. The only thing I remember about the "personalities" of these robots is that Starscream was a coward. And as for the designs, the thing that I remember as a five-year-old was, "How does a giant robot turn into a gun that my dad could hold?" Yes, wonderful culture. Or maybe it's just a regular cartoon with a great premise.
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Good call man, I loved that scene where all the autobots were all showing spike their different technologies. Just awesome. It really is what you would do, you'd want to make friends with them and ask questions and get them to show you more and more....I could see Optimus Prime assigning Bumblebee as the protector of their new human friends and tour guides of sorts, Spike and Sparkplug.
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bays perfect because his action is great - obviously so is camerons - but he doesnt have skills in other areas that are not necessary for this transformers movie, like cameron does. hahahah suckers. cant wait to hear how important to the transformers all of this other stuff is that im talking about. i just dont think its important at all, so thats me
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Freedom vs tyranny is deeply imbedded in the TF story. Scarcity of natural resources leading to war. Completely different response as to how to deal with this - a sanctity of life view vs. might makes right. The nature of power and how it should be used. The Autobots aren't interested in ruling Cybertron - they want to be free from Decepticon tyranny, on and on. Your average episode of Friends, on the other hand...
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but all cartoons are basically about freedom vs. tyranny. How do the children know who's bad and who's good, besides the voices and ominous color schemes? Because the bad guys in cartoons always try to impose their will on everyone else. It's like that with all cartoons. And the whole natural resources point, that's a MacGuffin. The writers were like, "OK, these robots need to fight over something. What would be important to a robot?" At first it was magazines, and in the preliminary episodes there was a mighty battle over an issue of "People" magazine with Princess Di on the cover. Then the writers realized that fuel would probably be more important to robots. So then they started fighting over that.
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http://tinyurl.com/ytuy7wsuperninja - I don't know if you have seen this yet but this photo may give you a better idea of the scales in this movie as well as the reasoning behind some of the transformations. (And let's not forget: at one point, Soundwave was also Blackout.)
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Starscream is going to be fucking huge.
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Thanks. I'm just a tool that loves the DreamWave/IDW comics (the Marvel/Marvel UK stuff was lacking but built a groundwork nonetheless) and personally believe/know this script could/should have delivered more. The group that keeps reiterating what everyone already knows (based on a toy/cartoon/commercial) refuse to acknowledge why TF have lasted for two plus decades. More than jsut toys. I guess I am lucky (probably pathetic from their standpoint) that I have been able to enjoy it past that. More than just Big Fucking Robots fighting each other. Sure it's a major aspect, but the WHY is why I read it. Allegory, and I keep saying it, is not such a bad thing.
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No kidding, Colonel Activity. Now, can you imagine how Prime was supposed to compete with that if he only has the mass of a flat-nose Mack truck?Starscream finally looks and feels like he could be a legitimate threat to Megatron now, eh?
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Bay failed to deliver and had hacks working on this film from the so-called production designers to the designer underlings slaving away at the shitty robot designs. The script by all involved catwoman rogers to abrams it dudes orci and kurtman, sucks ass. ILM did the best they could with the shit that was served up to them by bay and his minions.
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I guess he's supposed to be a stealth bomber, which makes sense. Well, it makes more sense than having him transform into something smaller than a Super-Soaker.
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Let's not get into that. Don Murphy explained why he didn't want to do that with Megs and I concur. The Tank/Cannon/Jet version could have been cool. Now we get a sleeping chandilier, but I digress. It's not about the design changes anyway. Too bad he is practically non-existent in the film and then dispatched of in a very anti-climatic fashion. Anyone here read Dixon's & Guidi's Evolutions: Hearts of Steel? Loved those designs.
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So what if all cartoons are about good vs evil? What is most of your entertainment about? The deeper meaning behind explosions? Transformers was pretty specific in its archetypes and the Decepticons actually controlled Cybertron. The bad guys had won and the Autobots were struggling for survival. But please explain why the toy cartoon still has a massive following to this day if it's just about toys.
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I can't really speak for anyone else here, but seriously it's not the designs. I don't think they are all that great per se but I honestly could take that one in stride if I felt the characters they represent were there. In fact I don't care an ounce that Optimus is not a flat nosed truck. The fact that he's a truck at all is cool with me. But seriously, and I know we've said it a million times. It's The script. Now some people think Transformers needs to be no more than giant robots fighting. I can't see how that holds water. If that's the case then how come some rival studio hasn't begun making a Go-Bots movie? By the' Robots fighting" logic there is absolutely no difference between the two properties so I can't see why the monetary prospects should be all that different. It really is the characters. And no the characters aren't Hamlet and Macbeth fleshed out. But there was certainly enough there that you can sort of put the missing pieces of the puzzle there yourself. I think you guys are also underestimating the power of the voice acting, who really is a big part of who these character were. Yes Starscream was the devious coward, but he was the devious coward with Chris Latta's very distinct voice. And man those voices account for alot. I can remember as a kid playing with the action figures and there wasn't a single one of us NOT imitating the voices of the cartoon and making the character act accordingly to what we saw. Also the Transformers cartoon, as superninja pointed out earlier, really made the robots the humans. They were sentient and expressive and it wasn't Spike you were rooting for to win the battle. The script simply does not understand this. And it would be alot easier to take if the humans weren't written so awfully. On the page they are seriously as annoying as it gets. Especially the blonde government chick who has absolutely no point in the plot yet seems to get an awful lot of time to muck about. Likewise for the three soldiers in Iraq, who seem to exists simply to get good looking men on screen. It's tough to say this is a movie for kids or adults or anything in between. Kids care about the robots not the humans, which is what they are going to be getting alot of. And the humans are written too poorly for adults to give a rats ass. They seriously hold about as much weight as the cast of your average Friday the 13th flick.
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no longer a Luger or whatever he was. A tank would've been perfectly sufficient.
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smallest Autobot. What am I missing here?
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Those aren't A-list actors, but they're good actors (Not sure about Megan Fox yet tho') The concept of "A-list" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talent...just ask Keanu Reeves and Jessica Alba.
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or roughly the same size. Nitpicking now, I know. Just flogging a DOA horse.
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There is a trick to this, you know. Star Wars came across as a galaxy far, far away for a reason. This filmed missed it.
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The toys.I'm not being glib about that either. The toys were 10x as cool. I don't remember anyone having GoBots when I was a kid. But everyone sure had a Transformer or two. GoBots were just a knock-off that faded while Transformers continued on in other medium.Hey, does any remember Converters???!!!But I totally understand your concerns about the script. I'm certainly not above my own trepidations with this film. However, this blonde chick you mention - why is it not out of the realm of possibility that her character's role has been diminished in later drafts for the sake of better development elsewhere (i.e. robots)? Is it even remotely possible that such revisions and improvements have been made since that script draft?
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to achieve this, it had something called "vision" which is in every way superior to "realism".
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I would have liked to have seen him given the royal M-1 Tank treatment. From the story's perspective, I understand the Cybertronian form blah, blah, blah. Just make Brawl someone else and let Megs be the vehicle that suits him best. What do Megatron and a tank have in common? A BFG.
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of the Go-Bots actions figures and so did alot of my friends. I can also remember watching the cartoon pretty often. You know what I can't remember? The characters. I simply cannot recall a single one of them, even the leader of the good or bad guys. Actually I do remember that black lambourgini on the bad guys side was freaky cause it looked like a transvestite robot. heh.
You are right though its possible that character has been diminished. But given bays track record and the fact that nothign else we have seen is far off at all I wouldn't bet the farm on it. -
Jazz's car does look smaller. But I thought the dimensions of the robots were disclosed quite sometime ago. Hmmm. Don't know.
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Or Cy-Kill? Ha!
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I totally disagree, superninja. I think they are more alien now than ever. How anthropomorphic is a race of ALIEN robots supposed to be anyway? ;^)
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That would have owned. Alas.....
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I meant the M-1 Tank Megs you mentioned. Whoops. Forgot to refresh before I posted.
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Said this before in a previous TF talkback but the GoBots disappeared into obscurity because Hasbro bought the licence to them. They were actually integrated into the TF toy line at one point as 'GoBots'.
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to be but for whatever reason when you deviate too far, it doesn't work unless it is isolated (ET for example). But the Transformers are not mysterious, that was part of what made them unique. You had a pretty clear understanding of Cybertron and later the class divisions, their civil war, etc.
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Chandelier Megs is following in his footsteps. Jazz hands!
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I know i've asked this before but where exactly are you getting your mythos for TF from? If i remember rightly, you said you never read the comics and as i fondly recall the cartoon was pretty devoid of deep history and was fairly contradictory to groundwork laid in previous episodes.
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Nice call you guys! Laughed out loud reading the name Leader-1 as it all came back to me. Haha Leader 1? Ok now THAT is some lazy characterization. That could make a brilliantly awful movie though. Asylum Films are you listening?
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Thanks for the clarification on the GoBots. I missed that earlier in the TB.But I'll say it again: Does anybody remember CONVERTERS?!
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Aboutn that G.I. Joe/Hasbro/Carey thing I posted earlier. I should have prefaced that statement with "While I cannot confirm it, it is my understanding that..." Sorry. Probably just a rumor based on how Hasbro has to approve all art and scripts for Devil's Due. Mike Carey and Steffano Caselli (sp?) are over at The House of Ideas now. Greener pastures for them I guess, but I miss them both. Additionally, the reason why I asked if you lived in Phoenix, AZ and frequented Atomic Comics is due to the fact that we used to live there and heard of a mysterious woman who had dibs on all Transformers variant and incentive covers i.e. she was a mega TF fan. Sorry to pry, but my wife asked me to ask. She said "wouldn't it cool if that was her?" We love your posts and thoughts. Glad you are sharing. Be well.
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I just like to throw that one out there when people compare this movie to a GoBots feature since, ironically, GoBots are really Transformers...I know no one did make a comparison on this occasion but i thought i'd chime in with that since GoBots pretty much disappeared overnight.
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No. Sorry. Did they "transform"? Were they worse than the Go-bots? Did they even have bios?
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produced by Marvel at the same time as G.I. Joe and Thundercats. I still remember the killer Shockwave cover and Circuit Breaker storyline, but I did not get every issue. And I did not follow the English versions, until reading them later and finding them odd. When people say the comic books I often assume they mean the later stuff and not the very earlier issues. And of course the animated film, and a little bit of Beastwars, an episode of Armada crapola, and then the earlier Dreamwave comics until I stopped reading comics. So I've basically viewed almost everything at this point.
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RE: "I don't know how anthropomorphic it needs to be" - I'm not sure I understand your post. We've seen that they will have humanistic traits. But they certainly aren't as human-like as the cartoons. That is a believable design choice. Not to mention the fact that it appears to be consistent throughout. (Have you guys noticed the head crest motif that the Decepticons share? It appear to be based off the symbol.) Even an alien race can have a pretty easy to follow class system, civil war, etc. Sure, there is no mystery there. I'm not sure what that has to do with their level of anthropomorphicness.
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The talkbacks have always been big concerning the “Transformers” – this one is no exception. It looks like a great summertime popcorn movie. I’ll be there after the fireworks.
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look like walking junk piles to me, except for Prime and that's because he has a pattern motif. I don't know what else to say - looking freakish works of course if you have a non-character there. ET is cutsey and heartfelt, but he's more a plot device for the humans to play off than a character, much like Gizmo from Gremlins. Transformers is about the robots having distinct personalities that you can relate to, I'm not sure how successful this will be with the designs - it doesn't look successful at all to me, I know it was botched with the script. :)
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shaped heads in design when the symbol is based on ALLEGIANCE to an idea, not a common design element? So you lose your freewill if you are created with a Decepticon shaped head, or does Chandelier-Boy reshape your head when you pledge allegiance. See? Not an improvement at all - stupid, actually.
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Did they transform?NO! They CONVERTED!!!Actually, they were way better than GoBots. They weren't made as well as the Transformers but some of them looked really neat. They were more of a direct from Japan-type thing, if I remember correctly. Hell if I can find a website though.
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if you are Decepticon, must be due to robot inbreeding.
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I had to TeeBall set that up for you. I would love to see them for a laugh. I did a half-ass search and couldn't find anything. Let me know.
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It makes a change from people who only got their Transformers from the cartoon. Which is really a big point. When people refer to the Transformers they usually follow it up with a reference to the cartoon which, i think, is really quite a poor format to defend. I have years of the comics upstairs and i read them religiously up until i was about 15/16. I had no inclination to get toys then but i did feel that Transformers had an excellent story to be put into a weekly or monthly comic book; helped greatly by the passionate writers at the time though.The cartoon on the other hand was very sloppy. It was great when i was 8 years old but it lacked the depth that the comics offered and since continutity wasn't paramount in the writers minds, there were glaring differences to backstory in some eps. The big one i remember was the constructicons being built on earth and then in like, season 3 they were in a flashback on cybertron and were actually good guys. That's probably why i get riled by people who defend the cartoon as being sacred when, looked at as one continuous story, it was all over the place; much like the movie version of The Saint. Anyways, i could get it if the 'fans' were annoyed by the unfaithful rendition of the comic and preceding mini-series' but seriously, the cartoon sucked.
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Of seeing Transformers: The Movie at the Odeon when i was 10. It was espcially memorable because i nearly choked to death on a hot dog that was very very hot.
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Well, as an alien race of robots, I should think not. But I think we agree, it's an aesthetic choice really. Nothing more.As for the Decepticons, I'm not entirely sure that all of them have this head-crest trait. Perhaps I spoke too soon. But it appears that Megatron, Frenzy, Barricade, and possibly Blackout have a similar feature on their heads that looks like the symbol motif. As a design choice, it's a nice tip-of-the-hat.However, if their body designs merge into issues of say free will, then that requires a whole series of posts containing our crazy theories of how they are made and if they can reform themselves and so on. I don't have the energy for that debate. ;^)
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And that's the point that some of us are making. Some just refuse to acknowledge it. Those responsible for this film chose not to be inspired by (or glean from) any of the great concepts presented within all the comic iterations. Lots of potential. The toy bios and cartoon just presented the set up for something that has been enjoyed by many for over two decades now. So yeah, all the shit and brilliance I have read and this is the film we get. Everyone, regardless of tastes or preferances deserved and should demand more. 7/4/7 is nigh.
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I don't care if I get banned, flamed or what ever, BUT GET YOURSELVES SOME FUCKING LIVES. It's transformers. I've been with it for 20 years, you guys are hating on this film because it'snot the original boxy designs - the whole fucking line of transformers has seen hundreds of different transformers, including several different versions of optimus in both cartoon and toy form. For this film I've watch its promo art, behind the scenes crew excitement, and teaser trailers and I have yet to see ONE thing that makes me want to hate. I fucking love it all. I can't fucking wait for this film. It'll be better than Spiderman 3, I promise you that!seriously guys, You've reach the absolute height of fanboy hating bullshit.
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http://tinyurl.com/2dsgavThis was the only page I could find that actually contains the word "Converters". I do remember the helicopter. But a lot of these toys/designs were used by other companies (including Hasbro) and were sold under different names.
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I'm trying my best to temper the hate. I know it's probably a losing effort as I'm almost sure this movie will embarrass me.But I've got to keep hope alive!
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And you know you are a pretty nice gaius. :)
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I'd hate to come across as sounding like a prick, it's not my intention..but, i have to say that it's unfair to have a pop on the movie when the only reference that 99% of the people have is with the saturday cartoon. I could understand if they invested a shit load of time and money into the comics, but it's a format that a great many people here completely neglect to mention. The way i see it is like this, the cartoon was written by writers who were paid to write stories; nothing more. The comic was written by writers who had a passion for the source and could see the potential. All i'm saying is, it pisses me off when people say that the cartoon had hidden depths and mythos when it didn't. Yes, the same thing can be said about the movie as the cartoon with respect to the writers but if i recall one of them was a die hard Transformers fan. I can't see how someone like that could possibly write a shit script.Given the changes that HAVE to be made to realise somthing like Transformers on the screen i can appreciate that some things have to be cut. Even if they'd gone to the greatest TF story writer ever, Simon Furman, he still would have had to make changes that many people find unacceptable in order to get a script in that was do-able. Get my drift?
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the cartoon. To me, they are interconnected, that is why we keep insisting it's not just a toy selling cartoon it is much larger than that at this point, I mean, it has a fairly sophisticated mythology at this point, right?
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it - why? For the same reasons we are, they saw the potential, the concept has great bones so much room to create a really fantastic thing!
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Hasbro originally aproached Marvel for a run of 4 issues to promote the toys. Even then it bore no resemblance to the cartoon. Anyway, point i'm makins is it started out as a toy selling comic..that's undeniable. However, it turned into something else as it's popularity grew. The cartoon however was always a 20 minute commercial.As for being interconnected. The only connection between cartoon and comic was the name. With the exception of the characters, the stories and backstories were totally different and bore hardly any resemblance to each other.
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Without his "battle-mode" helmet on, he looks pretty human.
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Thanks, I appreciate it!Well, since we appear to be over the 500 post mark, I'm going to call it a night. I haven't posted this much in a single TB (on a single topic) in quite sometime.Until next time kids. Steady on.
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feel the need to tell us we should not care and to stop talking about it? If you don't care why are you even reading it at this point?
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I agree with you that there is a shitload of potential in the franchise. But movies are an altogether differnt thing to comics. Writers on the comic had the ability to create long epic arcs that could last 2 years even. A movie has to cram as much into one 2 hour slot as is humanly possible. I think many people here are underestimaring the difficulties of bringing something as complex as Transformers to the screen really is. Remember, not everyone out there is as familiar with the product as you or I. Those people are 'bums on seats' in theaters too.
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You hate this talkback and yet haven't bothered to read it. It's the fucking script and execution, not the lack of boxy designs. Everyone expected redesigns. Did you know that there are over 60 versions of Optimus Prime and over 50 of Megatron? Don Figueroa created posters for them. All of those own TINO's designs, however it's the fucking script. Read the TBs before hating them.
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I get your point and I definately don't think you are a prick. Different view points. I am biased to a fault. I recognize that. Simon Furman is not even remotely flawless, I think he has written some great stories and some downright WTF stories. Regardless, I was willing to accept many changes for TINO as there have been so, so many TF iterations. This movie just does nothing for me. Nothing at all. But I still see, acknowledge and respect your POV. I merely bring up the fact that the comics/canon/mythology provided some great material for potentially a great script and they pretty much ignored it all. The lies to fans like me suck. Why get input if you plan to disregard it? They did what they did and it has not resonated well with a few fans. Yes, our money does not matter in the long run, but we still have passion for the material hence the ridiculous amount of time spent typing on these TBs. And I too do not intend to annoy or come across as a pretentious prick - just talking about a property I love still to this day. Be well.
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I hope that no one has lost scope of what each form is capable of and what is budget/marketing dictated. Comics can do anything. Film has limitations. However, general themes, plot devices, concepts and such could have been stronger for this. I feel strongly that they could have delivered what they promised and still been a blockbuster. Bay + Loud SFX = easy money. Shitting money on release day as someone said once. Butts in seats is commerce at it's best, but at the cost of story and character as far as this film is concerned. They had an opportunity to really reinvigorate the franchise and introduce it to a whole new generation/age group/demographic. It will certainly do I surmise. Regardless, TASE, I get what you are saying, but I maintain that the potential was flushed away on so many fronts for probably so many reasons. I don't know the film process as well as other per se, but I know what I like. Everything that I have seen so far just doesn't deliver for me. My loss, I know, but AICN offers these TBs for many reasons. One of them it to TalkBack. Thanks for reading. I appreciate your views. Seriously. At least you are bringing perspective and not just name calling with no basis.
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don murphy promised a movie "based" on gen-1....not a carbon copy of it..based means the premise and the name... all the star trek spinoffs on TV were "based on star trek, created by gene roddenberry" were they copies of "star trek" NO ...they were based in the same universe, the star trek universe...the rest should be self explanatory... u haters have ur panties in a bunch because more and more and more people each day are gettin excited for this movie....get over it, move on with ur life...move out of ur parents basement, and discover ur penis
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Other than that, you've added nothing new to the discussion.
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ya know IndustryKiller and SuperNinja....maybe u 2 should meet up and explore why 2 people need to post over and over and over and over with the same dribble, but in one sentence clips, especially u, superninja... got nothing else to do ?...i know i gotta work and fuck my girlfriend, but i guess when u live with ur parents and they still dress u i guess girls are out of the question...well u got IK, all u gotta figure out is which one is the man and which ones the bitch
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You said - "Who is to say what one can and can't enjoy, certianly not me, and that's not what i did."
You obviously have a short term memory when it comes to TBs. Either that or you hide behind implications. These were your statements in an above post:
"It used to be a place for people who were fans of good cinema."
"What I don;t understand is that alot of these people sseem to have no discernable love for film"
"Now you have people seriously defending Fantastic Four, X3, Pearl Harbor (for the love of God), and Ghost Rider."
"They are actually HAPPY to be spoon fed garbage. They want it. They need it. And they need it validated. It's sad sad times we live in."
IK, If you're going to say something, stand behind what you say and don't try to rewrite history.
Those statements you made scream arrogance and yes, ignorance. In the end, who gives a shit I guess. We're all anonymous guys and gals who have a passion for film. We love a lot of it, we hate a lot of it. I agree that much of what is made in the mainstream the last twenty some years has been crap... lazy storytelling... etc. But it's my opinion. Hell, I think Spider-Man is totally overrated. But that's my opinion. And damn if I'm going to berate or make belittling statements to anyone that disagrees with me and loves those movies.
Before anyone screams, "God moto, don't take it so personally." I take this as personal as everyone else here hopefully, meaning I don't. I write within the discussion and after that... who cares. Hell IK, we may be agreeing full force on some other future TB... and that'd be great. But on the issue of you somehow being a step above anyone else here because of what movies you enjoy/like/dislike (as you had strongly implied by those above statements) is just... stupid. I can't think of a better word. And for the record, yeah, Ghost Rider and Pearl Harbor were terrible and I'm miffed at Ghost Rider's success thus far. But hey, someone loves it? I don't. Still an even playing field regardless. -
of your life here commenting about the comments of a couple of geeks, not even making a relevant comment about the film. You signed in and created an AICN account, surely you don't want me to think you're cool.
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you are doing your girlfriend? I'm sure she thinks that's real classy.
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I feel compelled to post again to support the long time regulars that are fighting the good fight about this movie.
Unlike probably 80% of the new members offering their opinions, I am not a plant for the studio. I, like many of the (long time) posters, here have been a TF fan since I was a kid. I watched the cartoon and I read a few of the comics. I have been waiting about 15 years for this movie. Do I have a life outside of it? Certainly. I am a completely well adjusted, productive adult. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with caring about a franchise that held a special place for you at a certain time of your life. That being said, this is not the only fantasy universe that I consider myself a fan of. I am also a fan of Spider Man, X-men, Lord of the Rings and Star Wars, among others... all from different times in my life but, the affection I hold for each is genuine and well earned. Each has established a mythology and characters that are well loved by many... Transformers being no exception.
So, back to my support of the members here. I used to be the type that hoped for the best and saw what I wanted to see, regardless of reality. I came out of Alien 3 debating with my best friend how it was a worthy chapter in the franchise. I REALLY wanted to like it. She simply stated "That sucked." I've learned that you don't have to blindly support a project just because it has a name attached to it that you feel affection for, in large part due to reading the talkbacks here at AICN.
A year ago, prior to X-3's release I read a lot of "hate" here about the movie. At that point I still hadn't gotten it. I went into... and came out of the movie trying to convince myself that it wasn't that bad. Why? The movie clearly didn't hold up to the previous two. There were many problems with the production and script and a lot of people here called it on it all along the way.
So, back to Transformers. I'm glad that the "haters" are voicing their concerns! I think it's pretty well understood that the script is bad... the biggest flaw being the main POV being from the humans. I can swallow that. I get the whole "has to appeal to a broader audience thing." I do not get the designs of the Decepticons though. I'm looking at the bigger picture, beyond this movie to the sequals. They are atrocious to say the least. Honestly, Prime and Bumblbee are not Bad. At least they're reminiscent of the originals. Starscream and Megatron might as well be Aliens from Ridley Scott and James Cameron's Aliens movies. Hell, that is clearly their role in the movie anyway. Scary, life forms here to destroy... In the cartoon, the comic and every incarnation of transformers since generation 1, the decepticons were evil but, relatable characters that had personalities as strong as the autobots. Bay, Murphy, Spielberg, whomever has clearly missed the mark with the production of this movie and it's regrettable. I mean, look at F4. Imagive if the invisible woman were a 250lb, brunette in the original movie. The script can have problems but, if you're at least somewhat true to the characters there can be hope for the sequals. Unfortunately, that's not the case here.
As sad as it is, I've learned my lesson from X3. I will not be seeing this movie opening weekend.
Best of luck to the long time posters here. I doubt there's time to make, even a fraction of, the changes necessary to the movie to bring it to at least F4 level, not great but, at least a base to build upon for future installments.
The really sad thing is that this will probably be the only installment that Bay directs but now, we're stuck with alien, monster Starcream and Megatron. -
Apr 01, 2007 10:50:25 PM CDT
Difference between Gobots & TFs are not just the toys.
by gibsonusa returns
The Gobots cartoon sucked. They were nothing compared to the Transformers.
The toys were "different" but certainly playable.It's just that Optimus Prime was so much cooler and larger in character than Leader 1. I remember Leader 1 actually got a deluxe figure that towered over the Prime figure. But who cares? The character sucked. -
mainly because it was cheaper. I also remember having the Optimus Prime voice changer with the straw-thingy you "talked" into, that was cool until it filled with spit.
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Apr 01, 2007 11:40:18 PM CDT
What the TF mythology could have brought to the screen
by thesecondquest
Here's the larger concepts of the TF in a nutshell, which could have EASILY been tapped to create a film that not only had the big fucking robots causing massive carnage, but also have had a socially relevant theme and backstory to set these characters against. ------ A philosophical rift over the right of a dominant race/nation to strip the resources they need from that of another race/nation leads to a multi-generational war for energy resources that forces individuals of different backgrounds and craft to fight in it out of necessity and, eventually, fight in a foreign land to obtain those resources along their philosophy of choice. All of this set against the backdrop of an ages-long struggle between astral gods of order and chaos.
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To add to what has been said...the movie need not be exactly, or even that close, to G1, but here are some of the very general concepts that should have been kept, that make up Transformers.
-Peaceful civilians (Autobots) rebeling against war machines (Decepticons).
-A fight for limited resources.
-Two leaders with completely different philosophies. Megatron with his aggresive power-grab and Prime protecting the weak, as he once was.
-Obviously, each side develops transformation capabilities to be "robots in disguise." Autobots generally road machines while Decepticons take to the air. Robot forms usually hint strongly at the alternate forms (for example, a car hood as a chest).
I THINK the new movie largely ignores the above important concepts that make up TF, and that has me concerned. -
but none of you have offered a compelling reason why,after 20 years of looking like a robot,Megatron has been redesigned to look like a giant metal porcupine. I DONT CARE THAT HE DOESNT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE G1 MEGATRON!!! I just dont understand WHY he looks like a porcupine.
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Just got Optimus and Bumblebee. These reinventions of the G1 characters are awesome. They aren't exactly the same but they do the originals justice, I'd go so far as to say the update is perfect for todays times. Prime looks badass and still a flatnose and bumblebee looks almost like a bug, I think he's some kind of souped up mini-coop. I wanted to get Starscream but he's a bit more rare, though I hope to pick it up soon, plus he is pretty much exactly like his G1 counterpart but with more moving parts and the arm cannons are bigger, kick ass. Playing with these toys I realized that this is the way the idiots making this failed debacle of a film look.
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Apr 02, 2007 12:46:25 AM CDT
Using "sex with girlfriend" as a validation of comments
by s-mart shopper
slkboxrman has brought to attention an issue that I feel has not been properly addressed and that would be the "I have to go screw my girlfriend/wife/significant other" comments. I feel that using this as a way to project ones superiority over another actually shows insight to said users subconscious. Specifically, pointing to the persons feeling of sexual inadaquecy and/or lovers betrayal. The same could be said when speaking of having a job, dressing oneself and not living with parents anymore, all of these comments could suggest more serious problems.I guess my point is, that the nagging voice in the back of your mind, you know the one that makes people say that stuff, isn't all that wrong. Because, truth be known, while you're at work wondering if you're enough for her, people like me are sexually proving to her that you're not;)TINO!
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So how does that make one who does not like the movie, yet voices their opinion pretentious? Fuck off.
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So how does that make one who does not like the movie, yet voices their opinion pretentious? Fuck off.
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places me as saying anyone is not allowed to ENOY anything they damn well want to enjoy. You apparently need to read more carefully. If you want to consider them arrogant fine, but they don't say what you imply. Enjoyment of something and thinking that thing is quality are two completely different things. Just because one gets pleasure from something, doesn't mean one should defend it as something that has merit outside of that subjective enjoyment. In fact I think it takes a more introspective person to admit it if they have a guilty pleasure. I hate to break it to you, but we live in a world where some people have better taste than others. Now I'm not saying I have better taste than you, in fact it could very easily be the opposite. But there are plenty of bottom feeders. What bothers me about it is not what they like what they like, but the promotion of one thing often comes at the expense of others. For instance American Idol promotes people with a minimum amount of talent singing songs they didn't write. The more popular that type of music becomes the more "artists" of that ilk will get signed and be supported by the record industry. This makes real artists, whose songs may not appeal to only teenage girls, but who do write their own songs, meaningful ones at that, lives more difficult. I'm sorry that it bothers me as much as it does. But as a fan of good art I can't help it. I have never, and will never be ok with the promotion of the vapid.
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Apr 02, 2007 1:47:05 AM CDT
Unlike War of the World, Transformers lacks Tom Cruise.
by gibsonusa returns
...or some other name star. A mess of unrecognizable robots won't help either. A big red truck transforming into real Optimus Prime would be a lot more effective in ads than the flaming blue truck on a hill that they have. The key is familiarity. If it was a G1 looking Starscream flipping into a bridge, it'd make a lot more people cheer than that gorrila thing.
Basically right now the ads are counting on a War of the Worlds feel minus a top-name actor or familar characters. It relies solely on special effects and the "Transformers" name. Uh oh. -
It ran weekdays at 4:30 on channel 20.
GET IT RIGHT B*TCH!!
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You know what I just realized man? You're just trying to explain what cannot be comprehended. Both you and I know that this film appeals to the lowest common denominator. Case in point, the endless posts about wanting to see robots "blow shit up", nothing more. You and I, however realize the potential for this franchise, what could have been a great story, character design, and casting have all been squandered by studio execs who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Basically, this movie is an attempt to slip by without really attempting to use imagination or the best of what Transformers had to offer, such as character development and diverse personalities that went along with each individual robot. It's frustrating because we're not in a position to make the film but knowing if we were, would make something that goes above and beyond what we're seeing. Hell, I came up with an idea for a TF trilogy while typing this talkback. The first film would have had the TF coming to earth 4 million years ago and would establish the relationships between the robots and mankind, with the autobots getting a victory over the decepticons at the end. The second would introduce the Dinobots and Devastator with both factions using their new companions to gain an upper hand on the other, ending in a cliffhanger with Prime "dying" at the end to save humanity. The third would be Prime's return, most likely in the middle with an autobot like Hot Rod (Rodimus) or Ultra-Magnus taking over for Optimus, also introducing new TF's like The Aerialbots and the Stunticons and Omega Supreme. Basically, this film would see Megatron gaining the upper hand and destroying everything in his path. Prime would be restored somehow and I would seriously have "The Touch" playing somewhere as a nod to the cartoon. If there was a fourth film, I'd introduce Unicron who poses a threat to both Autobot and Decepticon, as well as humanity. This would serve to be the film with the most action and awe-inspiring FX onscreen. Alas, we're not hack directors, shitty character designers or Producers with too much money and time on their hands, all of which don't give a rat's ass so as to make money. Real shame people.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418279/
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..buisness, as cool as your idea sounds to you as a transformers fanatic it comes across as the wet dream of a lunatic who probably goes to bed in his optimus red pj's under his cybertron quilt. My god man when are people gonna stop wishing for something magnificent, something profound and utterly fantastic from a boxy, cheesy as fuck 80'S CAR-FUCKING-TOON!!!! its a summer event movie, nothing more, it looks great, bay has done a superb job on re-designing the robots so that they look cool to THE KIDS OF TODAY you fucking adult, the effects looks great and all in all i can see this making a fortune and hopefully spawn a few sequals. Your idea for the movie sounds like a plot line straight from the fucking 80's cartoon. This movie will rock, and if doesnt who gives a shit (apart from all you fanatics who cant seem to let go of a fucking cartoon) at least we'll get to see some cool robot fights which we have never seen before. I think its time to grow up, sure we all loved the fucking things when we were kids, but were adults now (some of us) and getting this bent outa shape for a cartoon borders on the creepy.
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just noticed the... ah fuck it, like i care..
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http://tinyurl.com/38a66j
That's her from 2 and a half men! -
That's right. I am so up my own ass I make jokes that only I can understand. And I punctuate those bastards correctly!In other news, I must say the special effects for this silly robot film are looking pretty impressive. The sound guys for this one must going nuts making different kinds of whizzing and whirring mechanical noises. If there were an Oscar for best robot noise, this would undoubtably win it.
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Children do not discuss nor demand a solid script with development and allegory. Children do not discuss the merit of films. This film is aimed at children (or those with childlike mentality) when it could have been aimed at a broader audience. Older people and parents could have been stimulated on the most basic level (outside of loud obnoxious SFX), however I foresee quite a bit of eye rolling in the cinemas. Does that matter in the grand sceme of life? Nope. This TINO flick had and has more potential. Adults wrote this, adults write and illustrate the comics, adults create the toys. Why can't we have an intelligent script? What are you afraid of? Wouldn't you rather say "What a great story. Every charater was memorable. What fantastic SFX." instead of "Wowie Kazowie those robots were cool!"? I certainly would as would others as evidenced by their posts.
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No fucking shit. I'm not learning impaired. However, ask yourself why this shit has lasted for over two fucking decades. It's not just due to the fact that they are cool toys.
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Damn straight, Franklin. The sound design is fucking beautiful, technically this films is going to be supoib. Sadly it seems like it's going to be more a showreel of technical brilliance than a genuine film. Shoulda been JJ Abrams or maybe they could have waited a year and got Verbinski.
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I concur on all accounts. Showreel indeed. Verbinski would have been great. He would have been worth the wait.
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I was a huge TF fan as kid, in fact the comic was probably THE most important thing in my life when I was ten, thou I hated the cartoon (they called Jetfire Skyfire for fuck's sake).I totally understand the "it's not my childhood up there" argument that's coming from the die hard fans. I'm still hopeful this can be a good summer actioner, even with cookie cutter American teenage cliched characters. But it will always be TINO because of all the changes...
Still I'm a major Godzilla fan, so to all TF fans I say: no matter what Bay does, you wont have something as terrible or out of character as that...:) -
seeing as this is clearly LCD film-making. Why is it pretentious to not want to lower your standards when watching a film? It gets trotted out over and over again- "You're elitist because you think that BIG FUCKING ROBOTS GO BANG BANG" is poorly scripted drivel." Fine. I am happy to be elitist and want something more than utter shit. I don't understand at all how this accusation of snobbery adds any weight to an argument that this will be a good film. Am I missing something. BTW Alien 3 was underrated.
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of FX heavy films, lots of the FX are either shown in pre-viz form or even as stroyboards. Well, nowadays I would argue, that the finished films have all the FX looking gorgeous but the script/story/acting is still in the equivalent of the pre-viz stages. People wouldn't put up with terribly sub-par effects so why would they put up with everything else being shitty?
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Talent and imagination go a long way.
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To be honest, my low expectations for this one are somewhat due to snobbery on my part. I'll cop to that. I suppose I was a little too old for Transformers, so I have no nostalgic attachment to the material and, to be frank (and no offense intended to fans), it just looks like garbage to me. Added to that, Michael Bay has established a firm track record of glossy, dumb films that are badly written and have choppy, incomprehensible action scenes. Sure, he could surprise people with this one, but chances are he'll stick to the form book.That said, the effects really are looking good, so if there's enough of them in the finished movie, I may well chump up the money to see it the cinema, if only to appreciate the spectacle on a whacking great screen.
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Bloom and Knightley had zero charisma and the action scenes were dull and overlong. Frankly, I can't remember what happened in that movie. The Ring was an unscary movie with a swiss cheese plot.
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god that remake pissed me off. POTC was quite good, although BLoom has the charisma of wet carpet.
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I think you've missed the whole 'pretentious' aspect of the talkback above. It's not pretentious at all to have standards, it is pretentious however to prejudge people based on their anticipation for a movie you don't particularly want to see. The thing that probably got up most peoples noses, and resulted in the following 'elitist' debate was the 'take pity on you' statement. It's one thing to have a differing opinion, it's another thing to assume you're better than someone else based on your taste in movies. And for the record, it doesn't add any weight to any argument, for or against, this movie. It was just one of the usual talkback sidetracks.
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I badly missed the point. However, I would like to say that the pity statement wasn't pretentious- condescending, arrogant, sure- but not pretentious. BTW- someone deleted my erroneous double post and apology. Thanks!
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so stop calling it shite, every director can hit one out of the park bar Dr Boll, so you read an early script seen all of Bay's previous movies (some of which were actually fucking good movies) and still you all harp on about how shite its gonna be!!!???! for fucks sake, going on the trailers how on earth can you say that the film looks like a piece of crap!? those trailers blew me away, the glimpses of the robots were enough to have me first in line on opening night, but you still call it shite, i dont get it, the film so far looks fucking great and i really do hope to god its great just so i can remind all the fanatics that shit on it for so lonnnng how fucking anal you were all being, and if its complete shite who gives a fuck at least i got to see some major carnage which i havent seen before. Its like Godzilla, terrible movie but fuck me i loved seeing a giant lizard stomp around new york on a giant fucking screen, either way its a win win for me.
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Personally, I like 'bombastic'...but i was afraid someone might think i was referring to a Shaggy tune from afew years back..
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crazy fuckers from both sides of the camp trying to convince the other crazy fuckers that there wrong... class!
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are fun. And because I am SOOOO behind the times, someone tell me ... wtf does TINO stand for?
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what input the berg has if any on this film. The berg is kind of a back seat driver. Poltergiest is the example that comes to mind. Tobe Hooper directed that but the berg called the shots.
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Great job, Bay!!
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Because that's what this film really is. TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO!
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....and MINO stands for Megatron in name only...if you've seen the photo of it, you'll know what we mean... ;-)
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...and say that even though they don't look anything like the original beloved characters, screw it I’m still looking forward to this...
"Bring on the generic giant fighty robots!!" :-)
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...and say that even though they don't look anything like the original beloved characters, screw it, I’m still looking forward to this...
"Bring on the generic giant fighty robots!!" :-)
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crazy fuckers like us. You and I are not so different. We both want to see a Transformers movie that we can enjoy. And apparently we both feel strongly about TF as a property, thus are defensive over the criticisms of the film, or in my case, the treatment of the property in Bay's film. As Belloq said, our methods have not differed
as much as you pretend. I am a shadowy reflection of you. But it would take only a nudge to make you the same as me, to push you out of the light.
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Sorry bout that-damn these slow work servers!
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from grace. Winona ryder said that if a studio ever made a movie out her copy of catcher in the rye she would burn down the studio. that seems to be attitude regarding This movie. some really really want this film to fail. Its seems to be an alien concept around these parts a glowing review. I would like mori or harry to actually do a review of a film that they actually really like and say so. A really great review encourages people to see a film. This negative stuff is sounding more and more like anti-hollywood bile.
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not a movie, it's an action sequence.
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filmmakers at this point because of the way they've handled themselves. Murphy in particular, and now Bay. They've engaged in outright lying and deception when they should just defend the movie they made on its own merits. They don't sound very confident, though.
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they ruin mythology regularly and dumb stuff down when its unnecessary. When it's done well, for example the last two Potter films, and for the most part LOTR, they are congratulated with lots of praise and bucketloads of moolah.
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I wish there was a Gobots movie that kicked ass and would piss off all these Transformers nerds. I'd go and see it. But saying that Transformers does look like good popcorn fun.
http//tinyurl.com/pv8do -
Congrats!
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How did Cullen and Welker get involved, and how did the Mars Rover explanation pan out? Whatever.
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Apr 02, 2007 2:37:37 PM CDT
"Transformers appeals to lowest common denominator."
by gibsonusa returns
Someone said thats the movie's target audience. Well, wouldn't more faithful Transformers robot designs appeal to the lowest common denominator? Everyone 20 years old and up has probably been exposed to the Transformers cartoon in some way, shape, or form as they grew up.
Even the most casual of TF fans, the pizza delivery guy or whatnot, has the classic image of Optimus Prime in his head as he walks around. (Nothing against pizza delivery guys :)) Everyone has some sort of classic Optimus in his head, whether it be the G1 version or the Armada version. "Lowest common demoninator?" EVERYONE thinks only of the classic designs!! SO WHY F*CK WITH A SURE THING????
How does aluminum foil Megatron increase appeal to the masses? Explain.
As for storyline, I can see how a generic ID4 type storyline centered around humans is the "safe" path. But why f*ck with the Transformers origins? Why not keep the G1 origins intact? That's the classic origins that everyone thinks about...how would keeping that damage appeal to the masses? Explain.
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http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/transformers.html
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Instead of acknowledging the fans, they are going to bypass us altogether?
Thats like...insane strategy.
Go to any kind of promotional/advertising firm and ask them if completely ignoring/skipping over the "product experts" (aka fanboys) is a good idea. The product experts are the ones that will give you first indication of the product's appeal. Granted, they will be more picky than the masses and everyone else, but their input is crucial and ignoring them, the fans (whether it be for Spiderman, TF, or whatever) is insane. -
and dont even try and tell me that picture isnt completely amazing.
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Or he would be in some serious trouble (hint o' sarcasm).
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http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/transformers.html
im very curious to see what you all think. its amazing. -
But I looked over and Kurt Russell was laughing pretty hard, so I guess it was okay.
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and irish football teams. The fans hate McClaren(his supporters and fans are sticking by him) and so does the media who want him gone. Steve Staunton is the Ireland coach and has made all the wrong decisions yet he has won all four games. McLaren is what they call cone and bib man yet he is running the english football team(ie he has very little experience except at the boro where his tenure ended with fans ripping there season tickets and throwing them at his direction and the team showed him up by qualifying for Euro without listening to a word he said). They should have beaten Andora but they didnt. With Ireland it was the performances that were terrible despite the wins. Some fans will say Staunton should go and I am one of them. Some irish fans want him to stay and Fai are standing by there man. David connolly is a great footballer and should be playing but staunton refuses to let him play. So too are The FA(football Association) standing by there man. and so some fans are outraged that this filmmaker is making this film and throwing out the old designs. So you all kind of remind me of Rte soccer pundits or pundits in general. or converesly there are the BBC soccer Pundits. Patriotic and will never say a bad word about the England football team no matter how crap they are. Despite the fans hatred of this film it will do well mainly on the back that the audience will not have seen the original transformers. Movies are also like live football matches in that they are very good or very boring or tense(especially extra time).
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I never really expected the studio to "pay attention" to AICN TBers, or any other net-based fan group. I mean, sure, Bay and company SAID they wanted to do something faithful to the original series and we beleived them. Then they started tipping their hands as to what they were doing and people realized that 1) they weren't being completely truthful and/or 2) they didn't know what the hell they were doing. If what we were seeing was their idea of "staying truthful" to G1, then they were out of their gords. My honest opinion is that they wanted to keep the source material close to the original, but didn't know it all that well and thus weren't all that bothered about making certain changes (flames on Prime, MINO, Bumblebee doesn't talk). I do think they wanted the fanbase on-board early, thus they were trying to get positive good buzz, but I don't think they meant to out and out lie. But that's me giving them the benefit of the doubt. The Devils' Advocate says "fuck them, they tried to use the fan base, we found out what they were really doing and now they're just being self-righteous pricks. Frankly, if I were making my "own" movie, I wouldnt care all that much about what a thousand internet fans spat about me or my film. Look at all the positive buss for SOAP. See what that did? I realize that sorta apples and oranges, but you see where I'm going with it, right? My expectations for this film are low. Non-existant. At this point I'm not even going to pay to see it in the theater. Maybe when it hits DVD and I have a monthly free rental from Blockbuster to use. That's not so much b/c "it's not G-1 enough for me" as much as it is because the movie Bay's making is less interesting to me than something that's closer to G-1. And I don't think this movie is worth my $12 to see. You and I probably disagree whole-heartedly there. Which is fine. You seem incredibly sure that TINO will do fine at the box office with or without me and 1,000 other TBers (ok, 500, b/c I'm sure that half will see it anyway. My hope is they'll pay for something else, then switch theaters ;-)). If TINO is sucessful, then fine. It won't bother me any more than films like The Hills Have Eyes getting a sequel. I didn't see it, have no interest, and me and The Hills don't cross paths, so it's no big deal. Of course, seeing how simple it is for just about any film to get a sequel made these days, TINO doing well enough to get a sequel doesn't seem to mean a whole helluva lot.
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As a wise man once said, FUCK PROOFREADING!!
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Dear lord Gany, I fully acknowledge that TF will make money and even be profitable, even the Fantastic Four did that, but calling TF the movie of the decade when it's coming out in one of the busiest blockbuster summers ever is ridiculous. Spidey 3, POTC 3, and Potter 5 alone are going to kick TFs ass, then there's Die Hard and even FF2 to contend with. TF is going to struggle to $300 - $400 million during a summer this busy.
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I'm late for a god damn meeting!
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new one starting on the main page with Optimus vs. Bonecrusher. See you there, gany, you cheeky monkey!
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What are you talking about? I write plenty of reviews for movies I love. You act like all we ever do is write about how much we hate things. That's talkback... not us.
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it wasnt so much listening to fan's recommendations - it was obvious that Peter Cullen was brought on board as a way to buy off fans - it was an attempt to sway all the negative feedback that was happening at the time (and I guess they were expecting in the future)............look at it from this perspective - Optimus is like the sacrifice they're conceding to fans - that the hope is if they got Optimus right that fans would let them get away with the utter bullshit that is the other robots and their designs.............if they were realy listening to fans, you wouldnt have Optimus as the only individual looking robot when there was such a massive negative reaction to leaked pics - that was by far the biggest unified fan reaction..............I'm pretty sure that Bay and co were upfront from the start the Mars rover bit had next to nothing to with the film
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