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Plowmen, Dig My Earth!! Wizarduniverse Interviews The Fellow Who Wrote The Third-Season GALACTICA Finale!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Wizarduniverse.com’s Sean Collins has an interview with Mark Verheiden, who wrote the third-season finale of “Battlestar Galactica.”
There’s a lot of insight into the creative process and a lot of “I can’t talk about that,” but here’s one Verheiden quote that stood out a bit:
["Galactica" mastermind Ronald D. Moore] has said that you shouldn’t take that as meaning anything specific to, say, Bob Dylan in the ’60s when he wrote the song, except in the sense that for all we know this song and these lyrics have existed on many planes. Maybe Bob Dylan is the one who picked it up here, in our place. It gets kind of mystic here, but I don’t think that you should draw too much from that, except that there are connections and there are very many interesting eddies and byways in the universe of “Battlestar” that remain to be explored.
Read the entire Wizarduniverse.com interview with Verheiden here.
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The link points to a dead variety page.
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http://www.wizarduniverse.com/television/bsg/004103906.cfm
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... we don't have a clue what we're doing. Don't tie us down to any logic. We're making this up as we go". What a shock.
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that he didn't know where it was all going at first, but he knows where he wants to end up with it now.
I'd rather have everything cryptic from these guys right now anyway. I like to guess, I like to be wrong, and I like to be surprised at the new direction. Shock and awe me, baby... -
ok, so in the story Bob Dylan may have "picked the song up out of the ether" as I've sometimes suspected happens to me when a tune I've never heard just pops into my head. But, end of the day, you've written that tune. Bob Dylan _did write_ All Along The Watchtower. At least in this universe. Otherwise why is ASCAP paying royalties? :)
I just hope they'll come up with a way to explain why "All Along The Watchtower" was used. Within the context of the story is good, but don't stretch credibility guys.
Sorry but the reasoning above at the moment is worse than midichlorians. Would have been nicer, and probably fit the story better, if they'd have just written an original song so it would be as much a surprise for us as it was to the FDCylons. All I can say for the story is... "please don't suck. please don't!" -
...that based on the fact that Moore and company have talked about shifting alliances in Season 4 (based, presumably, on the discovery of the fact that 4 of the final 5 are part of the crew), the 5th will be someone whose revelation will cause the most upheaval. In addition, since Moore has said that hints have been given about the identity of this fifth cylon, my guess is that either Gaius or Roslyn are the fifth. From my recollection, these two are the only ones to have exhibited a clear connection to the underlying story arc.
Perhaps, more interestingly, Gaius might claim he's the fifth causing a complete rift in the fleet, only for the real fifth to be revealed later.
Well, we'll see, I guess.
BTW, here's an End of Season poll (I carried this over from another talkback.)
http://www.polloot.com/pollootion/poll/P5nd-ydV6NOJ
Here's the tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/29mk78 -
I had read Moore's comments as more a creative direction for the reimagining of the song, more than an indication of how the song fits into the Battlestar universe itself. As in "Imagine these words appeared to someone else, via creative inspiration, in a completely other time and place. How would it sound?" In that way, the song could be a part of the existing Battlestar universe (it could have been written by a songwriter on Caprica, for example, and it might have been a song that the 4 had heard in the past).
But I'm probably wrong. :-) -
Well, then they should come across the old 1970s Battlestar then. Or find Dirk Benedicts' Starbuck marooned or something. As they say "It's all happened before and will happen again".
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across multiple time lines: Grace Park's incredible ass.
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reimagining of All Along the Watchtower? lol, it hasnt been reimagined since the 60's, baby! yea! at this point i hope earth is a desolate nuclear wasteland when they get there. really, whats the point to even get there? they started there to escape the Cylons and start over... now they are ALL headed there, Cylons in tow. so when they reach Earth the Cylons can just take it over like New Caprica. i think what we are gonna find is that the Cylons currently surrounding the Fleet are Rebels or something, just like in the XFiles. Starbucks new homies... because we KNOW a Cylon ship was there when she wrecked, she has to be the Final 5. the Final 5 are unknown to the other Cylons because they are a different faction of Cylons... whatever, yawn. looks like the show is not gonna go out with a bang but a whimper.
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how come the Cylon Cyborgs cannot be identified by a simple XRAY? there must be machinery in them... or they are more like Clones, and if they are Clones they are not Cyborgs. uggh. what would be better than the Final 5? if the Cylons from the Original Series show up in Season 4. wouldnt that be something? and it be that THOSE Cylons allied with Humans like the Original Baltar and made the new half assed Cyborg Cylons that can be in your head and be machines but be completely Human at the same time. lol this show is weak sauce when you try and ask questions.
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When I watched the episode and realized that they were actually working the lyrics into the script I got excited. For me it was reminiscent of oBSG when the monitor in the Galactica observatory picked up the broadcast of the moon landing (right after they left the room - doh!).
This whole totally seperate identical creations caused by a common etherial muse-like plane thing isn't my favorite. I thought they had committed to a time, but I was wrong.
Boo. -
A very good point.
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I will admit, I ejoyed the finale, and was actually ejoying it, until I sat back and thought about it. Now I realized how much of a last gasp this really is, and screw Ron Moore for meesing it up. First, if you were the Cylons and trying to kill off the Human Race, and one lone ship escaped, what are the odds of having 3 of 12 models in key positions on the lone Battlestar? What are the odds that they who want the end of the Human race wouldn't flip the switch then and get these three to cause all kinds of havock on the ship so the rest of the Cylon fleet could catch up to it and destroy it? And has anyone done the math? Out of 43,000 having 3 in key positions on galactica, 1 as an assistant to the president, 1 as a press hack (Go back to mini) and that close to the president. The odds aren't that great. Out of hundreds of possible ships pre-attack to chose from? And if they planned for things like a lone ship escaping, wouldn't someone have noticed that there is an identical Boomer on each battlestar if that were the case? I could see sneaking them in like when six first came on, or Leoben, or Cavil, or even Deanna. But to suddenly have four in that close of a space, who had been around for that long, and possibly a fifth who is the president or a dead pilot? Come on, it's a reach. And not a very good one. There is no good explanation for Kara either. If she survived, there is no good explanation for it, and also how she got back there considering her viper doesn't have an FTL drive, or any way of tracking the fleet which jumped six times between her "death" and then. If she's a cylon, then she could be in Lee's head, or it could be just a newly downloaded Kara. Either way, that explanation sucks. I would have rather had five complete strangers come out and be in a cargo box on some random ship in the fleet than the four that have been outed or the two that have been hinted at. It is a completely lame way of restarting BSG again. Yeah, I'll still watch, but this made me a cynic about it. And no matter how hot Grace Park is, even 1000 naked Boomers can't save this thing now. The fact is, this was a half-assed way of making a clifhanger ending for the season that had no forethought or planning. Lame, just lame. Way to kill your show Ron Moore, somewhere Fonzie is giving you a thumbs up while water-skiing above sharks.
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http://www.wizarduniverse.com/television/bsg/004103906.cfm
There was a space in the one posted above. -
Which completely blows kdoc13's argument completely out of the water. Do you even watch the show?
There is no way right now to know who "flipped the switch" on the four revealed Cylons, if they are in fact truly Cylons at all. We'll just have to wait until Jan 2008 to find out. -
What an amazing frickin episode.
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Ron Moore has said that we will begin to question what a Cylon even is. Tigh's timeline now possibly puts a "Cylon" on Caprica BEFORE the toaster models were evn invented.
Whatever is going on, it must have something to do with previous cycles. As if the Lords of Kobol are manipulating events so that they unfold this way. I suspect that we'll learn that people/cylons from the previous cycle 1000s of years ago have been manipulating events on a massive scale for a very long time.
Otherwise it just doesn't work. -
... suggests we think there will be major events when the show comes back, but they will be dealt with and swept under the rug in the first 5 minutes of episode 401. just like the cliff hanger of Adama prepping his nukes mid 3rd season, then when the show came back he went ahead and let 1 of the 4 craft land. and yea, jump the shark! so all 4 of those fucks, 1 good character (Tigh), 1 half assed one (Tyrol), and 2 nobodies (dont even know their names), meet in a empty room on the BSG and automatically know they are Cylons... that would NOT be my first guess, i think it would cross my mind we had all found something, or someone was messing with my head.
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The only explanation is "Destiny." "All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again" pretty much says it all. Is it a cheap tool the writers can use to make the most odds defying logic happen? Absolutely. But it can help rectify things in your mind. Hera is an important child (maybe not because of the New Cylon Nation aboard Galactica), but one could say she was destined to be stationed on that ship so she could have a child with a human. Now, with the other three, the gods only know. But I'm willing to accept the "destiny" argument for now, until a better one is provided.
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knows more than he is telling. I think his friendship with Tigh has something to do with it
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Then this is all set in our future and Earth people founded the Colonies on Caprica?, meaning when they left to go find Earth they where going back to where it all began?
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...way back when Boomer was being interrogated, didn't Adama get her to admit how many cylons were on Battlestar? Anyone remember the number, and does it match up with what we now know?
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bob dylan is god and he put the song in the mind of the writer and dont follow leaders and watch yer parking meters.
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d1138, Boomer told Adama how many models existed in total - not on Galactica.
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Just a thought, the cylons created 12 "skin jobs", one for each of the colonies. What about the 13th colony, was there a model made for that? The Cylon God? Could they save the 12th model for some time next season, then drop a giant surprise later on and reveal the 13th??
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It's playing the role of a song in a fictional universe; it shouldn't be taken as an indicator of a time or place. I don't see the issue. They have phones in BSG that look like they come from the 80s. They've had microphones that look closer to the 50s. The technology plays the role of "dated technology" and isn't used to establish some connection with our history. Likewise, the song is just a song, and shouldn't be taken to establish some connection with our history. That's what I take away from it, anyway.
I also don't see the big deal with them not planning the whole storyline out beforehand. I mean, if they screw it up, that could be a problem. But then they could've screwed it up beforehand. It might be mildly annoying that you can't go back and look for clues as to who is a Cylon, or whatever, but if it's ultimately satisfying I don't think it matters. I've found it satisfying so far. In fact, things I haven't liked to start with (such as New Caprica), have turned out to be great additions in retrospect. The writers have proved themselves capable of throwing out these twists that seem so random at first, but are integrated with the story and characters so incredibly well later on, that I'm willing to give them some slack. -
It's hard for me to imagine a stupid phrase I hate more than 'jump the shark' It's asinine, especially considering Happy Days had quite a few successful seasons after that episode. Maybe it should just mean 'dumb episode.' Anyway, there are no sharks in space. I love these twists. If they weren't planned out scene by scene when the show started 4 years ago, I couldn't care less. Creating a television show is a PROCESS, and new ideas get introduced all the time. Moore and everyone else have said (like any other show) that the framework is set, but the beats are more fluid. I'm fascinated to find out what the Final Four + 1 revelations mean for the definition of cylon and where that takes us. If people want to whine about sharks, feel free.
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simply put, galactica's cliffhanger was a let down. we knew those hearing the music would be cylons. last season's cliffhanger, couple with the rescue from new caprica was amazing. they set a new standard for television in my opinion. only to let us down this time around.
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So what if parts of it were predictable? If the beginning and end of quality was the ability to surprise, there would be no such thing as foreshadowing. More important than whether something is a surprise? Whether something moves stories and characters forward. Even if I realized Tigh was a Cylon episodes ago (which, of course, no one could) I would still love the episode because I would be interested in knowing how someone like him would deal with it.
I figured out "The Village" in the first half-hour, but I still loved the movie because I was interested in the characters' reactions to the world they lived in -- not just my own. But I get the feeling I'm alone in that. -
This non explanation basically boils down to: "There's this cosmic energy, vibe, that flows throughout the universe, binding, inspiring us all, like it probably did to Bob Dylan. Ya dig, man?" W. T. F.
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Its possible to enjoy both the mythology of a show and the characters in it. I feel sympathy for the Lost and BSG writers who put up with fans whining about "one-off" episodes that go nowhere, or confusing mythology that exist only for its own benefit. If you watch a show for only one of its dimensions, you're watching a one-dimensional show, and you don't get to complain about it. Watch any number of the simple, repetitive procedurals and soap operas that litter the airwaves and stop asking the creative minds to ruin their shows for the rest of us. And as for RM playing with astronomical improbablities, remember that Adama fought in the first Cylon war, Galactica was the only ship in the fleet that didn't use wireless (so Cylons couldn't hack it), and the Cylons want to destroy ALL humans. That includes the ones on Earth, which they can't find, and therefore need to follow the BSG convoy. Also, I need a memory jog: did we ever find out who gave Adama the note that said there are 12 Cylon models? If Boomer did it, how did she know, unless her Cylon self was "out" at the time? And why would they want the humants to know that?
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i wasn't implying that knowing who the new cylons were what ruined the season finale for me. i'm just saying in comparison to the quality of last season's finale i was let down. in all honesty, i left the last episode thinking, "oooh, i can' twait for next week... wait what? next year?" yeah, fuck that.
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. . . told Adama after she was activated and shot him, Dr. Dischord. When he came to he interrogated her. That conversation was in the brig if I recall correctly
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Thankfully, I couldn't disagree with you more.
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Actually I was referring to the mini-series. After his big "So Say We All" speech, Adama goes back to his quarters and finds a note on which somebody has written that there are 12 Cylon models. Whodunnit?
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It's pretty obvious when you think about it.
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That's what Boomer said when Dr Baltar presumably pulled it out of her subconscious by almost killing the chief.
Knowing what we know now ... that could mean the following:
Assuming Boomer included herself, that leaves us with later discovering Cavil and D'anna, (Leoben and the additional Doral copy were dead by then). Anders was still on Caprica, so that could leave Tigh, Tory and the Chief.
That adds up to 6 however. That also assumes at some subconscious level all Cylons are aware of all other Cylon types and that there's some controlling influence that positioned and knows the whereabouts of all Cylons and all types in the fleet and elsewhere.
As for what makes up the remaining two from 6 to 8, well assuming that statement was correct, no indications I can think of. Maybe there was a Simon in the fleet that they found and knocked off based on Starbuck's description after The Farm (how many tall bald black men in the fleet apart from Bill Duke were there?) - possibly this happened off camera. -
None of the seven Cylon models involved in nuking the colonies know who the final five are. So if Boomer said there was eight Cylons in the fleet, that would not have included Tigh, the Chief and Tory. Do you people actually watch the show? I sometimes wonder.
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Not eight DIFFERENT MODELS in the fleet. There were obviously some doubles there. `Must have been a couple Cavils or something.
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IMO the surprise element would've been much bigger if we also had a "big reveal" concerning In-Head Six or even better -- In-Head Baltar.
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OK, before the Final Five reveal, (or 4/5ths of one), I was thinking the "8 Cylons" Boomer referred to were Boomer, Cavil, D'anna and the Final Five.
Now that we know Anders was one of them and on Caprica, I guess a possibility could be Boomer, Cavil, D'anna and a Simon they found and killed off camera and never mentioned + Tigh + Tory + Tyrol.
And yes, we have been watching the show and noticed that whenever a Cylon model is identified, they're found and eradicated quite quickly eg: Leoben and Doral for starters.
I'd imagine that they'd done a photographic census of everyone in the fleet by now (there's not that many) and anyone that doubled up would be red flagged pronto, you would think. So that would be my major argument against Boomer referring to 8 Cylon units in the fleet made up from the 7 non-final five Cylons.
Especially since any other Leoben, Six and Boomer units would have been found very quickly indeed, somehow I'd think those remaining seven would have been picked up if they were multiple D'annas Cavils and Simons.
My thinking is that whatever is moving all the Cylons around like chess pieces (as well as everyone else) might have left that piece of information deep in the Cylon's consciousness like Boomer. Pure speculation of course but I would be thinking "8 Cylons in the fleet PLUS the Final Five" would make things rather crowded. -
I don't buy it. At this point, I don't think the Cylons even know what is going on. I'm truly hoping that they introduce a third element (like the Beings of Light in the original) manipulating events; like say putting the thought of nuking the colonies in the Cylons' minds in order to set up a fleet to find Earth and trigger some other event.
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what more do you fucking want from me. i shall count the days for next series.
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whatever...i love BSG..one of the best damn shows on television, but i am sorry, it needs to start getting back to Humans Vs Cylons, and a little more action, and not trying to get soo damn philosopihcal.
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Of course I could be completely, completely wrong but I am at least trying to pay attention as to what is going on and am not completely oblivious.
Just saying -
I think they will discover that they all are Cylons and that real humans fled to Earth long ago.
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...and semi-deific third party manipulating both the Cylons and the Humans, I will personally drive to Ron Moore's house and slap him with my deus ex machina.This show is better than that.
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Some people seem to be talking like we know for a fact that those four are Cylons. We got very little explanation as to why they all showed up in that same spot, or why they all think they're Cylons. When I saw that scene I thought, "Interesting. I wonder if it's true." Personally, I think making all these main characters Cylons would be silly and a cheap stunt. If Chief were a Cylon, then wouldn't his kid by another hybrid? Unless of course Callie really is a Cylon after all.
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