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THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM ShakyCams Its Way Into Our Hearts!!
Merrick here...
The international trailer for THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM has appeared on Yahoo UK/Ireland.
Lots of running and motion sick-o-vision, as well as an explosion or two! LOVE the chase shot following him as he jumps off the balcony.
SEE IT HERE!!!
It's a small link on upper right corner of the page.
SEE IT HERE!!!
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Directors who use this technique need to be put into a dunking booth filled with sulfuric acid.
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Is there actually any new footage in there?
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bored me crapless. This will probably do the same, at least i wont have to go to the bathroom during it.
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Fer crying out loud, hold it still!
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fuck him!
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...in moderation. I'm not getting that sense here, though.I did enjoy the second Bourne film more than I thought I would after a lukewarm experience of the first. So I guess I'll be giving this a shot.
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Do me proud, Matt.
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going to the bathroom, sitting on the pan and dropping nothing will probably be more exciting and easier to follow.
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awesome. Totally awesome. The 3rd one looks great too , the last shot of the trailer where Bourne jumps through that window and the camera follows him!? , just awesome.......awesome to the max :D
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I hope they put out Bourne action figures this go-round. With super neck breaking action. Not too many action figures can break necks!!
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The camera shakes - you can't see whats going on - hides the fact that the actors punch and run like wimps! I hate the shakey cam. Its just poor direction. Like the quick MTV edits...WHY ARE YOU GUYS SO INTENT ON GIVING ME A HEADACHE! Probably the person who invented shakey cams is the same person who thinks Lyndsay Lohan has talent. Idiot. Matt Damon is underrated. And even though he didnt deserve that writing Oscar (someone else wrote the script that won) he is an ok actor. The films are not that bad (apart from the shaky cam)...I suspect I will be watching...so long as that no talent Lohan isnt in it!!
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Fucking Flash player.
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Why the fuck don't you guys post stuff like this http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0424823/04196R.jpg.html?path=gallery&path_key=0424823&seq=7
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though julia stiles isn't famous anymore.
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24 and Children Of Men. Everywhere else, it's done wrong. So please learn how to use it right or stop it.
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doesn't work for me. I guess I'll have to wait till it comes out for quicktime. If it does.
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and you aren't iimediately assasinated by Jason Bourne, you should thank Chuck Norris for killing him.
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Download and install the IE-Tab plugin and then it should work. (It worked for me.)
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I know people here pride themselves on cynicism but these films are a real breath of fresh air for me, they're smart, well made and not riddled with the normal clichés of the genre. I love the European 'feeling' of films like these or Ronin.
I loved the fight scene in Bourne's apartment in the first film, 'shakey' cam or not they're not "hiding" anything, certainly not poor action! The second film bugged me a little but it grew on me. Hopefully this one will maintain the standard for one of the great thriller trilogies. -
It worked fine in FireFox for me. Just make sure you have the latest flash plugin.
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He always looks the same, in the books he does it. Looks good, shaky cam looks much better this time. Not so overt, more of a natural feel. Hopefully it's not over used to death. gfy
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I always thought that Matt Damon was like a Streisand, but he's rocking the shit in this one!
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If it's as good as the first two, I'll be a happy camper.
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These have been very good so far. Different from the books but good as stand alone films... Looking forward to this.
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And make it more like the old ridiculous bond films.
Anyone read Michael Bay's post about internet whingers - he was talking about you guys. -
it is that important
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I know I've heard it somewhere . . .anybody know what the music is from?
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http://www.firstshowing.net/2007/03/28/first-bourne-ultimatum-trailer-debuts/
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I loves me some BOURNE! United 93 kicked both sides of my ass...
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Each one sucks more than the last. Not much of a stretch for Matt Damon. No emotional range at all.
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ah fuck it, i stopped caring. "shaky cam?" fuck off. it doesn't make it feel more "real," it just draws attention to itself. "Identity" kicked "Supremacy's" ass up and down the block for everyone to see.
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I add my name to the list. First one was fricking great, the shakycam ruined the second one. Fuck I hate it.
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Shakycam ? Nonsense ! His technique is really well thought, quasi subliminal. All his shots are very precise, showing you all what's going on and what you have to know with the supreme elegance of letting your brain taking part to the action...
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It fits well for the movie I suppose.
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gotta love it
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Did I just say that? Fuck it. It's true. Loves me the Bourne movies and they are directly responsible for igniting a much need flame under the asses of MGM to get the Bond franchise out the gutter. Mission accomplished. Can't wait for this. Attention filmmakers: One of the reasons we have enjoyed the first two is because Julia Stiles has been only a bit player. For the love of all that is holy keep it that way! If she has more than 3 scenes or GOD FORBID there is even a hint of romance between her and Bourne, I'm outta there. Don't think I won't demand my money back and tell everyone to avoid the shit.
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Thank you! Can't fucking wait. This is the summer movie I am most excited about. More than SM3, PotC3, HP5.....
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hopefully die hard 4 measures up too. lookin' forward to the summer season (last years sucked) That said...Ghost Rider was a bit of a disappointment, as was Number 23. TMNT was cool....but it didn't own me like I hoped. Die Hard 4, Spider-Man 3, Bourne 3- these are the movies that MUST deliver.
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I'm excited for this movie. We really are in a strong era for action/spy movies. I thought MI III was by far and away the best one of that otherwise overrated series and the new Bond kicked my ass like Chuck Norris. Now with a third Bourne (which franchise I credit for the improved Bond by the way, because it highlighted by counter example just how ridiculous the other Bond movies had become), it's Miller Time. Michael Bay could take lessons from these movies in how action and quality can actually exist together. Also, awesome reference Trafficguy!
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I understand why many people don't like (or in fact hate) shakycam work. The unsteady movement, the filtering of movement so everything seems more intense, and the masking of an actor's fight sequences are all legitimate reasons to gripe.
But I happen to love the shakycam when it's used well. The combat sequences at the end of "Children of Men" utilized the shakycam to engineer a grippingly intense drama. That sequence wouldn't have worked with a steady cam, or it would've at least been far less memorable. When gratuitous and unnecessary, as it sometimes seems to be, shakycam work detracts from a film or television show. But when used with an artist's eye and thought process, the result can be glorious.
I wouldn't paint shakycam as simply good or bad, I'd classify it as a new technique that's sometimes used well, sometimes not. Hopefully Fresnadillo uses it well in "The Bourne Ultimatum." -
It just sucks period. (is that redundant?) It DOES turn great action into crap-action. Supremacy obviously doesn't suck but certainly had flaws. What...they couldn't get the same fight choreographer from the first one? That apartment fight from BI was sweetness and not one moment of shaky-cam that I recall. The condo fight from the second looked like sweetness but the damn shaky-cam made it annoying and difficult to watch. Shaky-cam and the pleasantville lady didn't help the second one for me at all (her toughness seemed too contrived...she should have channeled her bitch-character from Upside of Anger more). Also, and far more importantly though purely script related I guess, what happened to Marie (Franka Potente) killed the 2nd one for me almost completely too...sorry..I know it's shallow but RUN Lola! RUN! Supremacy's a good movie indeed but nothing compared to the first one. Oh and good reference to 40yoVirgin trafficguy!! LoL!!
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Ahem... not Fresnadillo (just watched the new trailer for "28 Months Later"), Paul Greengrass. Sorry.
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It's gonna be good. No it's gonna be bad. Shaky cam is great! No, it's confusing! But it's so real and gritty! No it's not, it's just a stylistic twitch. I'm more excited about Pirates! No, Harry Potter. Harry Potter will be good/bad. What about Spiderman? I loved/hated the previous Potter/Pirates/Bourne/Spiderman films so I think this one will rock/suck. And I thought it would be worth your time to know this about me. Kick ass rock balls suck turds. The prequels rock/suck. Star Wars is better/worse than Lord of the Rings. Golden Compass. Craig better than Brosnan. Moore would not have killed all those people in the Embassy in Africa. Yes he would, and he would have quipped 'so much for diplomacy'.
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Mr Gorilla tossing his shit around the room! I like it. You go, G.
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*spoiler* it's Shake-riffic. *end spoiler* I just hope it's edited more in the style of the first rather than the second, which nearly blinded me.
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Mar 28, 2007 11:22:23 AM CDT
I love shakecam. I hope Dirty Harry is remade with one!
by jackpumpkinhead
How much better would that sequence with Harry running from one phone booth to another be if we saw everything in crystal clear Shake Cam? With Harry's panting and heavy breaths in the background? And, oh dear God, if only Harry was played by Shia la Boeuf, to appeal to the wide 15-21 market! Or Johnny Depp, to appeal to the wide 13 year old girl market. But the shake cam would be the most important part. Bring on the gritty realism of the mighty shake cam!
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Mar 28, 2007 11:26:06 AM CDT
Really, though, does anyone know which exact scum...
by jackpumpkinhead
is to blame for that disease? I tried to remember when I started seeing the damn "shaking cam" chases in movies, and all I could think of was NARC. But it must have been earlier than that. Which ass infected cinema with the shake cam? I guess it's one of the three Cunt brothers. The second Cunt brother invented modern remakes, and the third one is just patenting the "let's explain the franchise character's past and explore his childhood" idea right now.
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Weiner Penis when you say, " I've seen better acting from old prostitutes." Is this coming from personal experience?
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I will give them this, they make great trailers...I call the first one the snore identity ,and the second one the bourne su-crap-icy...cause for some reason, I just don't buy any of the shit that happens in the movie. I don't care about this character and I find myself rooting for him to get caught and killed just so that I can enjoy them a little. Maybe it's the formula of having him go through all these stupid things, when you know he's gonna survive, otherwise there would be no movie...I dunno, I just never liked these films...I so don't care that I didn't even click the link to see the trailer...
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Mar 28, 2007 11:31:44 AM CDT
Technically, Bay's message makes *him* a Net whiner.
by jackpumpkinhead
Kind of like that dolt Kevin Smith thinking he's actually making fun of somebody by writing about him: "Ooh, look, my opinion counts because I post on an Internet message board!" and posting it on his Internet message board.
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snore identity? bourne su-crap-icy? ummm...good ones. I guess we know the level of discourse you appreciate in a film. I hear there's a great movie with giant robots coming out that you'll absolutely LOVE.
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Hell yes.
I notice the shakey cam is back, but as long as they do it from a distance further back so we can actually see the fights then i'm cool with it. The problem with supremecy was the camera was pretty much so close to the action that one quick whip would completely lose you and you couldn't tell whats going on.. shakey cam from 6 feet away from the action I.E. the fight in the trailer in the hallway where bourne whips one guy into another is okay with me. The balcony jump was badass too. -
Indy, Bond, MClane, etc. Did you like Casino Royale? You knew Bond wouldn't die in that, but that movie was freak'n great.
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you're right, I probably will enjoy that giant robot movie. when I go into it , expecting giant robots and explosions, and I get that..it will make me happy. When I went into BI, I was expecting a great action/spy movie, what I got was some slow ass movie that had some sporadic action that I thought could have been filmed better. I though all the fight scenes were filmed terribly, and again, I did not care for the character one bit. So it takes me out of the movie.
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which makes it an improvement over the last one. "Handheld camera follows the actor out the window shot" was done earlier/better in TIME & TIDE, but there's no shame in getting beat to the punch by that film.
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By the Hair Of Sanjaya I just can't get worked up over a guy jumping over a balcony. Wow! never seen **that** before.
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I actually had to register to post this. The first Bourne was awesome. The second was unwatchable from the Shaky cam. I will not be seeing the third because of the shakycam.
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this is true, maybe it's the way the character is portrayed, and filmed? when I've seen those other characters ,I've was able to 'buy' that they could get killed in the particular story that was being shown..in these, he seems so in control of everything, that, I never get that, "is he gonna make it?" type feeling, it more like, oh look, he's driving really crazy and crashing into cars really well, like he was trained...I guess, I don't have an attachment to the character enough to care what he goes through. And, unfortunately I haven't had the time to actually get to see Casino yet...but, it was kinda' the same with the bond movies before that one...Maybe it's that fact that the character seems so non effected by anything...maybe I just don't like Matt Damons acting?? Damn, I dunno, I just don't buy it like I do in other similar films.
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Because that was a great show.
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Can't wait for Bourne, but the trailer was bad. I swear it was some American moviemakers who probably invented the idea of European sophistication, which is refreshing.
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Jason Bourne returns once again to the life he has tried to leave behind when an unstoppable outbreak of regurgitated butterered popcorn threatens movie theaters nationwide. Reported cases of motion sickness skyrocket across the globe as Paul Greengrass unleashes his devastating superweapon...the dreaded Shakycam! Coming soon to a MySpace page with an embedded YouTube code near you!
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I liked the first movie, but the second one was so poorly shot and cut that A) it made no sense, there was one character that I thought was four characters because of the way his scene was put together. And B) It made me nauseaus. It's the only time I've been intrigued by a movie's story, but just had to turn it off fifteen minutes in.
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it's for Mission Fucking Impossible 4
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there wasn't any shakycam in the trailer! And the shot of Bourne jumping through the window with the camera following him is awesome! United 93 was the best film of last year and The Bourne Supremace was tremendous, can't wait to see this!
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I see your perspective. For me, I enjoy it when he's in "Bourne" mode, and nothing can prevent him from his objective. I also like the fact that he uses his head to get to his objective. And I completely buy Damon in his role. I think the intensity he brings to the role is great, and I think he's good in the action sequences. And I encourage you to see the latest Bond flick. It does not disappoint.
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The camera isn't really all that shaky this time. I'm not really willing to give it a chance though, they probably removed some of the shake for the trailer or something. I'll see when it's on basic cable. I was raised on Road Warrior, John Woo and Jackie Chan, so if you put one single shakycam action scene in a film series, you've lost me forever.
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I will definately see it, I just need to make the time to. I think what bothers me, is that I can't see the difference when he makes the "switch" to bourne mode...he seems the same to me...and maybe that's what I am not buying. I wish I could enjoy them...seems alot of people do, heck my wife and mom-n-law LOVE them...
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Mar 28, 2007 1:03:30 PM CDT
the next Bond movie will have a kickboxer babe in it...
by just pillow talk
It will include a character known as Kickboxer Girl. The supposed frontrunner for the role: a Turkish model named Fulya Keskin. She's very, very hot. However, this seems to be a step down to the less serious Bonds of previous movies. Please don't go down that route! I'm sure there's another role (naked woman on beach) for kickboxer girl.
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ith the shitty low rez trailer that doesn fucking play properly when you try to watch it? way to go, great publicity for the movie, i'm sick of the supposed 'exclusive' trailers that are released in this fashion, an HD trailer would have made a much better initial impression.
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Greengrass can do no wrong! ;-)
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lame ass shit. that is all.
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that he didn't direct the first one, right? Just have a feeling.
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Mar 28, 2007 1:45:35 PM CDT
D.A.C. (DEFENDERS OF ACTION CINEMA) VS. THE "SHAKY CAM"
by d.a.c. defenders of action cinema
Hollywood has not been making action movies for some time now. They have been making "editing" films. As in a director edits and simulates action because the actors cannot hold down a scene. For any test of an actor's screen action talent, see if they can complete one full move in one shot. They can't. Not even a simple punch or kick. Prime examples are Milla Jojovovich "fights" in Resident Evil Apocalypse. Each move was filmed through the course of not one but TWO shots. Same thing with the Bourne Identity and Blade Trinity. Blade 2, the Matrix all worked. Why? Because they incorporated Hong Kong Talent (Donnie Yen Ji-Dan & Yuen Woo Ping) to choreograph the action scenes. But digging deeper, the reason why HK cinema works is because the director pulls the camera back from the actors and shows you what the actor can (or cannot) do. When actors movements are shot with extreme close-ups, the audience is robbed of pure action and left with the sour aftertastes of simulated action. We are then left to our imaginations. We might as well just read the screenplay if the director and actors can't bring the scene to life. In Hong Kong action films, the actor must carry the scene with his actions. In Hollywood "editing" movies the actors lack of talent is cloaked in rapid camera flashes. Much like an MTV video. For an alternate but similar example: That infamous scene in Singing in the Rain was one full shot. Pure talent. Furthermore, the lack of the new wave of Hollywood talent forces Hollywood to replace climatic battle sequences between the protagonist and the villain with CGI inserts. We've all noticed the trend. Since when should CGI replace humans?! Never! Dear Hollywood Directors, please make your actors act out the action in a scene as is done in Hong Kong by the eighth master Yuen Woo Ping and Lau Kar Lueng. --- I don't doubt for one second that, if given the proper direction, Christian Bale could hold down an action scene. However after seeing Batman Begins I was deeply saddened by the use of the "shaky cam" in one of our summer tentpole pics. There was never one shot with more than one point of contact. Not one, mind you. Same thing with EP III. Four shots to convey one point of contact. It's just not fair to moviegoers. We're smarter than that. When Neo fought Seraph, at least eight points of contact per shot. That's filmed action. And in Sha Po Lang there is a 20-second shot with about thirty points of contact. No cutting. That is the standard that we expect in 2007. Judging by the response on this talkback, I am not the only one. And it seems that all over the world fans are tasting the sting of this new wave of "editing cinema". Here's what Kungfucinema.com had to say: "In today's reality, however, it is the editor who rules supreme in the world of martial arts cinema. This is the case, whether working with a rough and tumble brawl as seen in The Bourne Supremacy, a montage of training sequences in Batman Begins or a frantic kickboxing match in Star Runner. While editing has always been an integral part of screen fighting, its use in these and other films has increasingly become a matter of pasting a series of disjointed shots and blurred motion into a cohesive fight that primarily generates excitement from the edited arrangement, rather than from an actors' abilities or the fight coordinator's choreography."
We ain't alone. Stand up and apply pressure to these lazy filmmakers.
Tron-1 (D.A.C.) -
Thanks, that's a MUCH better link.
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Did no one see the fleeting shot of Franka Potente as Marie in the trailer? About 45 seconds in, Bourne is looking through the crack of a door, and sees her face in a mirror... Did they dye Julia Stiles' hair, or is that Franka Potente? Or maybe that's a shot from Supremacy, you tell me... I have been wrong before.
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Upon further review, it's Julia Stiles with dyed hair. Goddammit. I wanted me some more Franka. I'll still see the flick, though. The last two have been solid action flicks, and that other talkbacker is also correct in that we owe a debt of gratitude to the Bourne films for inspiring MGM to add more grit and muscle to the Bond franchise.
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THE BOURNE SUPREMACY was a masterpiece of the action genre.
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...boy did they overdo the shaky-cam shit... especially in that fucking car chase that just went on... and on... and where the fuck is the other car? oh there it is... oh wait, hang on, thats a different one. So where are we now? Are we going in that direction? no, ahh I see we're going THIS way now.... but actually which way IS this way? Im not sure.. maybe its the same way as before... oh no, its not... its a completely different direction. I know some filmmakers have divine autority from God to 'cross the line'... but Paul Greengrass doesn't. Unfortunately he has to adhere to conventional cinematic language too, especially if he wants audiences to understand spacial awareness in his car-chase scenes. It doesn't come across as gritty, its comes across like you forgot to storyboard and managed to borrow a camera for only one day from your university tech room. But you did make United 93, so you do have a professional filmmaker in you somewhere. And I wonder if you are related to that eccentric dude from ITVs 'Heartbeat'?
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Was tight as hell. I'll still see this though. I like the character. Sorry to disappoint D.A.C. However, I second your sentiment. Well said.
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This looks like more of the same. Blank-faced Bourne does his slapbox routine a couple of times, while Joan Allen and Julia Stiles put me to sleep. They're gonna have to try harder than that if they wan't my money.
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Its the only way they can make Matt Damon look interesting.
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In Episode 3, you are absolutely right that in certain scenes, there were multiple shots per choreographed move, mainly when dealing with either infirm actors or cgi characters. There were many scenes, however, when one shot was used to depict MULTIPLE strikes (the main duel, for instance). The only reason I bring this up is so that if anyone doesn't quite understand the points you are illustrating, one can simply pop in episode 3: its got all the examples that you listed, INCLUDING one long shot showing a real fight (the absolutely amazing Anakin/Obi fight).
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Yep.
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Anyone who legitimately claims to be physically affected by shaking camera movements is a total douche. Bourne 2, Blair Witch, Domino, Crank, you name it, I've seen them all on the big screen, and usually sat pretty close to the front of the theater, and never experienced ANY dizziness or "motion sickness," nothing ANY different than had the movies been static master shots. I can't believe this argument even comes up. It's also time to retire the phrase "Shaky Cam." It's embarrassing. Why don't you just say OOGIE-WOOKIE-DEAKY, because it's just as corny and wack.
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I'm with you brother. I actually like the so called shaky cam. Clearly I am unable to appreciate film since Transformers with own all and the Bourne franchise is boring and lame. Whatever. I guess I understand how the daft dolts who cannot wait to see Transformers feel when those like myself poo poo all over TINO and it's pathetic excuse for a script. To each his own.
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god damn i love these frickin movies!!!
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The intelligence and edge of these movies, along with the great casting (Brian Cox, Joan Allen, and isn't David Straithairn in this new one?) elevate this series above every other in the genre. Yes, including Casino Royale, dammit! I am definitely looking forward to Ultimatum.
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it can't detract from movies that have everything else going for them (Bourne Supremacy and Man on Fire to name two examples of often maligned "shaky-cam" flicks that are actually great movies.)
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And thank me later. Then bitch about how they changed the story. (They NEVER should've KILLED MARIE!). I read the books and look at the badass I've become.
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Man what is wrong with people and the use of a moving camera? What a load of bollocks i'm hearing about so called "shaky-cam", it's not as if they simply shake the camera for the hell of it to make everything confusing as hell. For years cinema has been trying to free the use of a stationary camera and now we're finally employing its use artistically the stuck-in-their-ways mentality of audiences simply want to remain spoon fed for life like geriatrics. Paul Greengrass is one of the best directors around today and his expertise in the employment of kinetic camera shots is remarkable. You can't compare his technique with the theatrics of a Hong Kong flick becasue they are worlds apart in their intentions artistically. Hong Kong films whcih i do love, are simply shot and choreographed to basic theatrical presentations, the shots and framing of every move and rehearsed sequence is spoon-fed to the audience in gratuituous fashion. That is thier technique, its old, its the standard but its theirs. Over in the west that technique died with the Hollywood Musical and a more even spoon-fed and dynamic technique employed with quick edits and multiple angled shots. The Bourne Identity was a monolith of a movie amongst the espionage genre for its high octane set pieces that were carefully choreographed and well executed but still in the typical spoonfed, well framed and gratuituos action -film mold. The Bourne Supremacy however was a far more intelligently scripted movie, way superior in its camera work and was a far bigger hit than its predecessor too. The Bourne Supremacy's use of continuously moving camera shots gave the entire film a kinetic feel that stepped away from the polished and typical delivery of a standard hollywood brainless action flick. The actual choreography was ten times more realistic in the B.S and shot in a far less simplisticly spoon-fed way. the more your watch the sequences in repeat viewings, the more you train your viewing experiences what to look for and how to interperate the sequences of events. Those unfortunatel soulss who suffer geniunely from motion sicknes - unlucky! Those who simply lack the ability to advance their viewing past noticing that the camera is not standing still - Unlucky! But for those who have adapted and overcome all that limited acceptence, stubborness to apply themselves and simple moaning of the average joe-cinemagoer - Welcome to a ten billion tmes more artistically presented and way superior movie experience, you are the Top Gun of the artistically aware movie lovers and the rest are yet to evolve past accepting every shot in a film to be perfectly framed with a vase in order to qualify as proper directing. These film are fantastic regardless of their directors but the second movie was far superior on all fronts and its incredible camera work was the most outstanding aspect of the entire feature. I'm overjoyed that Paul Greengrass has been chosen to come back and finish the series in the same style. God forbid that every action film should end up being yet another spoon-fed experience for an audience who can't be asked to utilise the use of the braincells god gave them or the imagination they simply lack once they turn off all senses in the seat of the theater. Variety is the spice of life and fresh minds = fresh ideas, be tolerant!
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action in it than the second. The second was definitely a film of substance but the shaky cam kills the action. Plain and simple. Choreographing a scene and shooting with minimal cuts is simply the best and most technically impressive way to shoot and action scene. Children of Men all but proves this. People still tlak about the action in the first Bourne and given the fact that you cant actually see what is going on int he second, the action scenes from that film are forgotten. Greengrass may be a talented guy, but he's simply wrong for the Bourne series and the fact that he will now shoot the majority of said series doesn't change that. It's a cop out to shoot in shaky cam, its a cop out when Christopher Nolan does it, it's a cop out when Paul Greengrass does it.
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Well said.
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And I don't think anyone on this site, like me or not, would accuse me of it. I understand what Greengrass is trying to do and I think the kenetic style has a place, I just don't think that place is during an intense fight. "Well it shows what its like ot be in a fight". Well I know what its like to be in a fight, but since I'm not actually in the fight happening in the film, it stands to reason that I might actually care to watch it. You might have noticed that the camera work in Bourne SUpermecy, as "technical" as it was, didn't win any awards. Watch a sequence like those in Children of Men (I use COM because it's the most recent flick of that caliber of filmmaking), you cannot tell me that those scenes are both technically astounding and visually arresting as a viewer. There is not an argument on earth that can say that the work in Bourne Supremecy is on that level. Not a cinematographer in the world would take up that fight. People still talk about the fight between Bourne and the assasin int he first film, no one tlaks about the similar fight int eh second. WHy? Because you can;t see it. You can't tell me that a well choreographed fight between two men, completely visible, is more exciting than one that is not. I don't doubt that what is on screen is exactly what he wants to be there, but that doesn't make it good. It's like listening to a jam band, it might be impressive on the most minute of technical levels, but it's boring as hell emotionally meaningless music. (generally) While Greengrass's style may be perfect for FLight 93, it falls flat on a set piece that is there for the viewers entertainment. There is no point in having an action setpiece happen if the viewer can't see it.
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Mar 28, 2007 6:08:29 PM CDT
ShakyCam Carchase/Crash n Supremacy is INCOMPREHENSIBLE
by george newman
you just can't see what is going on. There are logic rules to film editing, but these quick cuts and shake-y angles break them for the worse.
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The hand-to-hand combat sequences in SUPREMACY are horriblly filmed and edited. The director's reasoning/explanation back duirng SUPREMACY was that the "fast and furious" shooting style is visceral and realistic and the viewer doesn't really know who is going to win because it all happens so fast. But that is a bunch of Crap. I might as well wear a blind fold and take it off when I hear the fight is done. That would be equally effective. Pathetic.
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Or I'll do one with Affleck
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Fucking-A!
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Damon would touch Affleck with a ten foot pole, considering the opposite directions their careers have gone? Let's keep those jokes grounded in a feasible universe. :)
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I don't see it.
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I found it.
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Batsuit shoots first.
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America, fuck yeah!
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All the progress made by ILM towards the creation and production of the heralded 'steady cam' and here we are making films whose cinematography would have been state of the art around the time that sound was state of the art - or COLOR, even.
Agreed on the lack-of-action cover-up. Shakey cam is used because Matt Damon runs like a little girl, wrists limp and hands flapping behind him like the fringe of his petticoats. He's also incapable of carrying the role of 'action hero' - he's a fleshy Charlie Brown. -
because the moves were executed slower so the audience could grasp what's happening, while at the same time grounding in the reality. The fight sequence in Bourne's apartment in Paris I will say is one of the top 10 fight sequences in cinematic history. Damon, actor playing his opponent, and whoever choreographed it, completely sold it.
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he first Bourne better than the second ? Liman more talented than Greengrass ? Are you joking ? I would have hoped that the nomination of Greengrass for best director would have helped to show people what cinema is.
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The article is on AICN somewhere (Can't find it, search thing is busted forever). Some woman got motion sickness and ralphed while watching a normal, non-gory action scene. Before you go applauding the seizure-cam, watch the hallway fight in OLDBOY and then tell me you actually like shakes, quick cuts and close ups. Having grown up on Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee and John Woo, shitty craftsmanship is not something I can abide by in an action film.
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SHAKYCAM 4 LIFE!
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If the third Bourne movie is pants we can blame the curse of the United 93 movie. Greengrass should have stayed away from propaganda movie making. I hope ultimatum is good but in this day and age spies are really bad guys who cover up the politicians crap. Spies are not heroes.They are evil. Bourne should be played in that fashion.
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There was a study conducted recently that proved one of the sideeffects of chronic masturbation is ones ability to hold objects steady for any period of time.
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The grass was greener with him :D
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It showed me what the Academy was; RETARDED for not nominating Cuaron who used the shaky cam technique to a MUCH better effect.
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Last thing I remember Limon doing was that shitty Mr. and Mrs. Smith "remake". That thing sure as fuck made me nauseous, and it had nothing to do with the camera. Even then, Limon is still the exec-producer on these things so it's not like he doesn't support Greengrass and the way he works. Other words, stop yer whinin', kiddies, Ghost Rider sucked and so will Transformers. A couple of decent thrillers with half a brain comes out and you're all wetting your shorts. Because we need more cheap, pointless slasher flicks flooding the market. So much so that you can't even keep track of them anymore. Yeah. Absolutely. Cocksuckers.
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When cinema first employed slow motion technique a majority of people simply couldn't understand how such an unatural looking thing was suitable for film. Same thing for strobing, fish eye lens etc etc. Every new technique has a faction of moviegoers who simply can't adapt to its use and recently the camera techniques of Bullet-time and kinetic Handheld shots as in The Bourne Supremacy is subject to that exact scruitiny. There is nothing wrong with any of these techniques especially when handled so masterfully as they were in fims like The Matrix and The Bourne Supremacy. But there will always be people who simply can't see how or why it is preferable to simply framing everything perfectly in a shot and edited to banal visual narrative means. Oh god, how boring a world we'd have if such people had their way every single time; films would simply lack individuality and unique expression. Worse still key talents in growing audiences will feel restriained to try new techniques and present new ideas simply becasue of those amongst as with the loudest mouths but the most limited of understanding of artistic expression. The camera work in The Bourne Supremacy is perfect for the kind of thriller the film is presenting, the narrative is a constant moving, always in motion tale which compliments the style of the photography and even more the main character who is constantly on the move, always running, always watching and seeing what he can utilize from around him. You simply do not destroy an artistic presentation of such a production by changing the style at set piece action sequences to being dumbed down to a run of the mill, perfectly framed, a-typical action shot JUST so that those in the audience who lack the ability or the will to adapt to another technique; can understand what's going on. The sheer fact that there are those of us who have ZERO problem with it should make those who simply can't get it that THEY are the ones who are limiting themselves and not the production qualities of such an excellent film. If you read Shakespeare and you don't understand or interpret what's going on becasue of the style of English, then you simply have to adapt to the way it is presented to truly gain its true value. If you choose to read a simplified version in plain English then you loose all aspects of what made the art of the original truly special and that's purely down to you own ability to progress and nothing else. Whe you go to see a movies sometimes you have to bring something to the show other than your popcorn and an off-switch for your brain; some times a good film will ask you to think, might ask you explore new avenues and ask questions not just simply entertain. If you don't bring something to the movie in terms of willing to experience or understand something in a new way then by all means stay at home and let the art train go on without you. This industry is tired full of action films that have been following the same annoying template for the last 30 years and i'll be damned if i go through another 30 years of them without seeing something fresh and bold as Paul Greengrass's production.
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Stop with the "You have to be intelligent to get shakycam" bs. Shakycam is detested because it is more MTV than true movie-making. It is usually used by a director who wants to be "artsy" but has no concept of what artistry really is. It is also used to cover up horrid fight choreography or actors who cannot sell a fight. In this case we know Matt Damon can sell a fight so it's all the director. He thinks he is an artiste and is utterly destroying the Bourne movies. Supremacy had a much better plot than Identity, no question, but the shakycam ruined each and every action scene in the movie and only grew more annoying as the movie progressed. It's not because people can't adapt, it's because Paul Greengrass relies on MTV editing to pretend he's an artist.
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The French Connection, mother fuckers. Handheld is fine, but getting your camera men to work with the short bus is not.
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Those are some of the most self-satisfied and Long-winded posts I have ever seen. I would feel insulted, but I think I have just failed to adapt to your new revolutionary style of posting.
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There is NO shakycam in it!!! Just a lot of fast-paced editing! Shaky cam is when the camera operator physically moves the camera idiots, or an electronic judder motion effect is applied electronically in post. D'oh!
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Mar 29, 2007 1:20:37 PM CDT
D.A.C. Defenders of Action Cinema vs. CeeJay
by d.a.c. defenders of action cinema
Otherwise known as the director of this film or someone involved in it's production.
My friend,
1) Comic books and features are visual mediums. Meaning we must SEE it to laud it's greatness. By your logic, in sixty years we should be looking at filmed sequences in reverse and be able to appreciate it. Now I don't wanna offend you or your production, but if we cannot see it on screen then it is no good.
2)Please do not disrespect HK action. Please watch Iron Monkey (Yuen Woo Ping version). The cameras DO move, but it does not distract us from the action. Like the posters above mentioned, it's a lil' difficult to sell Matt as a full on action hero. So guys like him and Tom Cruise must have their action heavily edited via shot micro-splicing and shaky cam.
3)All camera techniques employed should serve to enhance the action that we SEE. We are not stupid. You cannot serve us action scenes that come from a blender and then tell us to go figure it out. The bottom line my friend, is If We Cannot See It, Then We Should Read The Book Not Watch Your Film.
Films are about what we can SEE.
Tron-1 (D.A.C)
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