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The Hour’s Getting Late!! BATTLESTAR GALACTICA’s Third-Season Finale!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
A wait awaits.
For those who missed the news last week, “Battlestar Galactica” is getting a two-hour TV-movie this autumn and a 20-episode fourth season in 2008.
If you can’t wait these last few hours, the exciting spoilers on tonight’s third-season finale can be found here.
Or … can they? This one guy keeps writing us to say there’s a minute or so missing from the end of the press screener. That somebody gets outed as a Cylon in the missing footage.
I spoke to someone who’s seen the screener. He said he wasn’t aware of any missing minute.
So I guess we’ll all get to the bottom of this together.
10 p.m. Sunday. SciFi.
Love The Loveless!!
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I'm a Cylon
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God I hope there is more to it than what was previously reported. Otherwise once again Ron Moore and company show they don't have the balls to really committ to something.
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nuff said.
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I'm hoping that the next season will be the last. They have 22 whole episodes to work with plus a movie to just pour everything they have into it. I'd love for it to be as good if not better than Angel's final season which was about as good a final sendoff as anything else out there.
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weren't we promised a huge new direction that after Starbuck bought the farm the show would head off in some new area? So far I really don't see it. Last season was a real shocker when the title came up and it said, "one year later". So far this season, it doesn't seem they did anything with a new direction.
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....will feature more spatial anomalies.
Or Galactica gets transported 70000 light years away from the fleet and they have to get back using ancient wormhole gates.
Or Dirk Benedict is revealed to be all five of the final five. -
seriously, i got nothing.
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I'm really stupid reading talkbacks this close to galactica's season 3 finale as i want to remain spoiler free and i know some wanker will post that x is one of the final five in a header. God i can't wait for this episode though some of the best battlestar theres ever been and so welcome after some of the weak filler thats happened in the second half of this season. Nothing as bad as some of the season two filler but still some dodgy moments.
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Well, not really, but. Grr. That would be annoying.
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Even season 2 was leaps and bounds ahead of this year's show. The only thing noteworthy this whole year was finding Baltar and Hera. And at the end, the baby isn't even talked about. And the whole thing with Baltar is just stretched out to fill a season that was just too long for its own good.
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http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2267740
apparently the actors who play Anders, Kat, and Hotdog will be there. -
Talk to everybody in the morning.
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me until 10:06PM Eastern tonight. :D
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The Sunday, March 25, season finale of Battlestar Galactica will run five minutes longer than usual. If you plan on recording the episode, set your DVR or VCR to continue for five to 10 minutes after the end of the hour so you don't miss anything!
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I never understood why they don't warn about shows running overtime in all the ep. trailers.
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See you all in the AM.
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damm you sci-fi, sky 1 in the uk gave you the ratings in season 1 and you betrayed us by airing all the subsequent seasons in the US.
i hope this final epsiode ends with a bang and i hope the torrents guys caputure the extra minutes -
Today will be a spoiler free day for me too.See you in the SPOILER FREE after-the-show TB.Cheer!
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I'm really looking forward to this, guys. Let's hope we are all pleased.I'll expect a full Roll Call (chromedome, NoHubris, chrth, Red Ned Lynch, Amy Chasing, Hairy Nutsack, et al) and Sitrep afterwards.So say we all!
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If Roslyn was a Cyclon, I always suspected after that blood transfusion - but I also think Baltar is a Cyclon. It would explain their unique... ah, screen chemistry.
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Not Roslyn, which lends further credence to the rumor that Roslyn is a Cyclon.
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I think Starbuck is the leader too. Wasn't it prophesized that the it would be a dying leader that would lead them to Earth? Maybe that Starbuck's mom was dying of cancer was a premonition that she would suffer the same fate and never reach Earth? And Roslin makes perfect sense as the Cylon. If she was one of the boxed models then she would have no problem helping the humans stay as far away from the Cylons as possible to avoid the same fate. I'll bet Man Of Stool is right, she is THE Cylon. Imagine how that would throw the show in a different direction
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I've repeatedly stated Roslins own personal agenda and that she was the Cylon.
I would bet she originally had gotten the access codes while going Monica on the pres.
This is also how she CLEARLY recalls seeing Baltar with Six way fucking back when.
I'm salivating over the magic moment of Adama screaming " Die evil Cylon Bitch, DIE!" while pumping round after round into her twitching jumping blood spewing robotic corpse. -
Mar 25, 2007 12:33:19 PM CDT
update: Katee Sackhoff & EJO to attend viewing party!!!
by boomers_lips
Katee Sackhoff "Starbuck" and Edward James Olmos "Admiral Adama" told the event organizer to add them to the guest list for tonights viewing part at Club Republic in Los Angeles.
http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2267740 -
Where are the Lesbians?
Los Angeles police Chief Daryl Gates once commented on the awesome upper body strenght of Lesbians. That alone should have allowed us a glimpse of Katt and Strabuck wirhting in nipping punching passion instead of the aborted kiss moment. -
Having read most of the spoilers, I am quite excited about what is coming next. I'm particularly intrigued as to how Laura is having the same dreams/hallucinations as Six and Boomer. Is it possible that in her cancer returning, the medicine she takes, as well as Boomer's child's blood(boy try saying that much less typing it)she somehow is sharing those Cylon's traits but is not necessarily a Cylon herself. If it's the case, then we need to see an ep where the Cylon's somehow 'evolved' to create organic life amongst themselves. That just seems too fantastic. Who was the scientist? It couldn't have been Baltar, could it? How was that first human cylon war fought? Could that Count Patrick Magee played in the original be a part of their evolution and offer them a deal?
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She better throw herself out an airlock. Otherwise she will be a cylon who is also a hypocrit, and can't we all agree, those are the worst kind.
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In the finale, Lee Adama gets a little too whiny, and some pee comes out. Frak. I just blew the surprise for everyone.
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Then I won't have to be let down by another stupid season.
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Look, we've already been told exactly what happens in tonight's episode, including the end, so there can't be a 'missing minute', they're just trying to make people believe there's more to it when there isn't. However, I suppose there MIGHT be a version of the episode hanging around which doesn't include the 'surprise' of Starbuck appearing at the end to Apollo saying she's been to Earth.
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SyFy Portal kind of says the same thing.
www.syfyportal.com/news423442.html -
I think we'd all like to hear that, but unfortunately this is a Ron Moore show.
Actually, I'm sure he'd like to hear it, too, but somehow I think he would have a hard time working that in. -
On Yahoo's entertainment page, it says the identity of final five cylons revealed.
That also matches the "fifth cylon" rumor. -
They are counting Starbuck as the 5th cylon, even though it doesn't explicitly explain that she is?
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Could be.
Frak this talkback is quiet... -
... about Sackhoff last night, and she was loving it! i was like "look, bey-b, everyone loves Starbuck, youll be back!"
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...earlier in the week stating that we would learn the identities of ALL FIVE of the Final Five Cylons tonight. So, either someone at the site screwed up with the announcement, or the "missing minute screeners" rumor is true...
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so i hope ron moore gives us a good reason to anticipate season four.
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besides being the two best shows by a mile right now, I just had the epiphany of ROME and BSG being populated by multiple deities.
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After Adama swiss cheeses Roslin Tighe stumbles over nudges her with a boot and mumbles " I never liked her anyway".
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The bonus scene on scifi.com is interesting in that it looks like the lawyer may be arguing that the whole trial isn't about what Baltar did with the cylons, but the fact that Baltar opposed the President and Adama. If so, that would make an interesting argument. After all, who is one of the judges? Bill Adama.As far as the final cylons being revealed, remember, the spoiler says that the people in question make the assumption that they are cylons. To me that screams "misdirection." I'm still not convinced that Tigh can be a cylon. Just because they come to the conclusion that they are cylons doesn't mean that they have arrived at the correct assumptions.
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Mr. Benedict to the soundstage please...
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Dirk Benedict
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Did Baltar just slip into his "real" accent? If so, that is great acting.
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Said the joker to the thiefToo much confusionI can't get no relief...Hmmmm...?
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This first half hour is why BSG is truly one of thebest shows on TV.
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He's a total Jesus figure now. What with Lee's suggestion that he's going to die for the bad things everyone else did. And his beard.
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Plow men dig my EARTHI called it, spoiler-free.
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WOT?!?!
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Let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.
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But still, WTF?
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sweet.
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What the Frack???
I don't even know if it was good, just so shocking. Except Baltar, it would have been more shocking if the convicted him. -
Just wow. If only every BSG ep was that good.
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Contemporary Earth, Future Earth, Past Earth, any Earth you choose, RDM. Just do it.
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...And I say that as a guy who sees Dylan every time he's in town. Ridickygoddamndiculous.
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but the only time I've heard those lyrics are from my Jimi Hendrix CD.
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no fifth Cylon, unless they meant Starbuck.
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But we gotta wait until 2008 now??!?!?! FUUUUCCCCKKKKK. Anyway, solid finale, a little bit of everything that makes the show so goddamned great when it wants to be. Badger and Apollo's reaction to Baltar post-trial was pitch-perfect. Just really good stuff.
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Seriously? Wow. How fucking weird is that. And thank the GODS that Starbuck returned so soon. After her anticlimactic exit, I was fearing it would be a while before we saw her again.But seriously, TEN MONTHS? I could have a frakking baby by then (if I was very persistent in the next couple weeks.)
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Unbelievable.
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What are we, the Fucking Sopranos?
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I am speechless. Really.
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in that final five pic a few weeks back...I knew it!
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This finale felt more like a parody of Battlestar Galactica than an actual episode. I was laughing at the absurdity of it all for the last twenty minutes of the show. And as for bringing Starbuck back after only two episodes, if they were going to pull this, she should have disappeared no sooner than the mid-season break. Two episodes is not long enough for a character to be missed.
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The fifth Cylon IS Bob Dylan.
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She has said on many occasions that she is NOT a cylon, as opposed to giving beat around the bush hints. Frakkin christ, I can't wait this long. Wow. I was floored. Loved it.
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I guess all those "filler" episodes weren't for naught after all...but I'm not buying it. Those fuckers R&D have got something up the ole sleve I'll betcha. It's gonna be a long, tense summer. Fucking loved the Dylan!!!
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Remember, at the end of 'Collaborators'? The blanket pardon? That applied to Baltar, too.
BEST. FRACKING. SHOW. ON. TV. Frack The Wire, Rome, any other show. BSG is on top, beeyotches. -
even though I still think that the conclusion they drew will be the incorrect one, the scenes with them going to the room and trying to make themselves say the "C" word were great. Very tense stuff. Thank goodness Doctor Who comes back next week. That and its spin-offs will help pass the time until 2008.
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You might be made of gears.
BSG ended in early spring.
It jumped the shark, I hear.
Say for me that it's all right
Though things got kinda slow,
You're writing this as you go along
don't tell me it isn't so. -
Man, I can't wait that long! I'm going to pull a Cartman and freeze myself until then. I just hope Butters finds me. But seriously, how sweet was that segue from the fleet to Earth at the end?
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The 5th Cylon?
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i was too distracted by the shitty music blaring
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Remember the previews that said ONE will die and ONE will discover they are a Cylon? Both turned out to be false advertising. Makes me wonder what lies they'll sell in order to try to lure viewers for Season Four.
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Why would the Cylons be broadcasting Bob Dylan?
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They will help guide the way. Dylan lyrics prove that Earth is, at least, past the 70's.
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If you haven't seen the ep, skip this post (and see a therapist -- what's wrong with you!?!?)HERE BE SPOILERSHERE BE SPOILERSIf no Cylon is a "replacement" of a real person, and Saul Tigh fought alongside Bill "Husker" Adama during the first Cylon war, how long have these "final" five been running around -- and if they're that old, how is it that Tyrol, Anders and Tory are a good 20 years "younger" (at least) than the Chief... or did they go all 'Duncan MacCleod of the clan MacCleod' and create a new identity every so often.. but then how do you explain that Tigh **aged**?!?!!?THERE WENT SPOILERSTHERE WENT SPOILERSAAARGH!! My brain hurts... but I am Sooooooo glad I skipped the spoilers.
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"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl. -
but SciFi needs knock off with the 9 month waits. That's where they keep losing the audience. Some people think that the show is canceled.
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there is going to be another explination for what's going on with the four, and it's going to tie in with what happened to starbuck.
did anyone notice if Caprica Six saw 4 or 5 hooded figures?
also, if anyone has a screenshot of that last shot of earth, I'd like to see if you can see any lights or anything like that. -
I enjoyed the trial stuff, but as it's been posted here, I think everyone expected Gaius to get a "Not Guilty" verdict. Apollo's speech was really nice though. As for the ending, I enjoyed it, and it was a lot better than the filler episodes that have dominated lately, and it's nice to see the show may have a new energy next year (although the third season had the same, simply to revert back to what it was 6 episodes in), but I didn't think it was amazing by any standards. Maybe this show just isn't for me though. I only looked into it due to all the raving done for it over the talkbacks here.
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and they were right on the money. thank the frakking gods i didn't read them. i pretty much loved every minute of the episode. i agree that having starbuck back so soon didn't give us enough time to miss her, but that's assuming that she's actually alive. she's gotta be a vision or something, and i assume that she is the messiah or whatever instead of roslin. i found it crazy cool when those four went back to their battle stations. are they all going to burst into cylon mode and frak every body up all at once?
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So fracking glad.
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The fact that she went out so unceremoniously makes it acceptable for her to come back so soon. She exploded. The end. Maelstrom was such an anticlimactic episode as a whole that I feel that it ultimately succeeded in making me be like, "Ok, so what the frak was that?" and then bringing ol' Bucky back before I got too bored caring what happened to her. I'll admit I was already starting down that path. But now....oh baby now I want 2008 to come quick.
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Cylon, Cylon, do you know where we're headed? The road to Earth or Armageddon? Seems like the show has gone wrong. Will Wolfman Jack show up, Cylon?
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No, seriously, what? What was that.What on earth did I just watch.I have a hard time calling that a good episode. I guess, good moments. But the ending. That whole last bit. What.That was worse than the first season ender of Lost. Starbuck randomly shows up. Everyone's a Cylon. No questions answered, just a ton of non sequiters.Moore and Eick needed a few more weeks to iron out the kinks in that thing. I hope they have a better plan with what to do with season four, because this all will feel even more lame if it doesn't go anywhere.BY THE WAY: How much better an ending would it have been if the last ten minutes involved Starbuck crash landing on Earth?
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But if the first Cylon war was the result of the mechanical Cylons gaining sentience and rebelling, for Tigh to be a skinjob the skinjobs would have to predate the mechanical Cylons. And that doesn't make sense. Unless the skinjob Cylons have never really been Cylons at all. After all, we only have their word for it that they are an advanced model of the toasters - what if they're lying?
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Which version is the tune of that music from? The Dylan one sounds completely different (i.e. sucks). The tune they kept playing in the show...is that Hendrix version or who?
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It would explain his superhuman lyrics and + alien like vocals. Next season we may discover his fellow members in the Traveling Willbury's are also Cylons. The final five?
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The last thing I remember before Six stripped and kneeled, was a chainload of Threes bogged down in a magnetic field. A Cylon with a broken flag and a flashing ring. Said "Saul, this ain't a dream no more, it's the real thing."
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It's the special Cylon version. The final 5 are actually a cover band that plays nothing but Classic Rock. You heard it here first.
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The Dylan version does not suck. Ask Jimi.
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That's been my theory for a while. That either the cylons predate humans, or that they are something else entirely. That either way, they just ran upon the centurion (toaster) cylons after the first war and conquered/joined/whatever with them.
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..that those four are not Cylons, but something else as is Starbuck. Still think its Lord of Cobol related.Hey, Wonakbar, welcome back!
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THAT was one of the best episodes of BSG I've ever seen. It almost makes up for the fill-r-rama that went on for so long. I'm SO glad I avoided the spoilers and the talkback from last week.
So, 4 of the final 5 revealed. Very cool, I can't imagine where they will go with all this next year. Next year... aaaagh, it's going to be painful waiting. Just gotta stay occupied by the other awesome shows I watch in the meantime...
The Trial of Baltar had an awesome finish, Lee's testimony was awesome. So, where's Baltar going? Somewhere significant or was he just ushered away by some of his crazy followers. GREAT ending to the finale, with the song rocking our faces off. And the Starbuck reveal, WTF. What's gonna happen next!? Can't wait to read all of your thoughts. -
It does suck. So which version is that tune from? It sucked...less...than Dylan.
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Badger the Witness! Er, I mean, Badger the Lawyer!: best extra casting ever!
So, um ... the judge stated that the counsels would have final remarks ... and then they didn't have them. How could they fail to maintain consistency through one scene?
Lee Adama basically said what I've saying. It's about time someone on the show did.
The reporter who wanted Baltar to pray for her son is Hot. I would've went with her too, despite her Milf-itude. -
The characters quite clearly said "There must be some KIND OF way out of here..."Dylan's original verse doesn't include 'kind of'.Oh the First Cylon War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
With the Gods on your side.
When the Second Cylon War
Came to an end
We forgave the Collaborator
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Collaborators now too
Have Gods on their side.
I've learned to hate Cylons
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With the Gods on my side.
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...though some of it surely isn't original to me. The four are not cylons. Something was done to them while they were on New Caprica. It allowed the Cylons to track the fleet and had some other (possibly unforeseen) consequences. And I don't know that I wouldn't be too sure that it's Starbuck in that Viper.
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The Cylons aren't broadcasting Dylan. The main 7 Cylons don't even know who the 5 are themselves. I'm thinking the 5 are tied into some version of the original show's War of the Gods storyline. I think it'll take the humans and cylons working together to get to Earth. Frakkin' awesome episode!!!
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Is the tune the same as Hendrix or did they modify it?
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It will give time to get the DVD release in and hopefully (as I'm sure it is Sci-Fi's thinking) more people up to speed.
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be nice to see a shot of that to try to suss out the outlines of the people and see if indeed the 4 r cylons...
but yeah, nine-months seems excessive for this typew of cliffhanger, Methinks the writersd/producers are smoking too much of that fine BC Bud.
I seem to recall cliffhangers like this go from end of spring to beginning of fall - not 9 months,
Fuck I might be dead or homeless by then. fuckers.
Time for answers RDM and co. Maybe we should organize a boycott of reruns and urge no one to buy the dvd... -
You walk into the room with an eyepatch on your eye. You hear some Bob Dylan, and you say, "Who is that guy?" You try so hard
But you just can't buy, that you're a Cylon to the bone. Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Col. Tigh?
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That the whole bit with the Dylan song seems like when you're riding in your car listening to the radio, and you think, "Hey, I've got a great idea for a show," when a particular song comes on, and then you forget about it because it was kind of a stupid idea, but in this case they didn't forget about it because they, like, have a show already. But I'm kicking back and waiting to see what they do with it.
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Just kidding. In all seriousness, they are Cylons. They gained awareness (enlightenment) of their nature, otherwise there would've been more protesting.
So was Cavil lying to Tyrol, or was he telling the truth? -
What you see when you try to get onto SciFi.com's BSG message boards. That damned tune has short circuited their forums! :D
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That bugs me the most. Tyrol didn't have a sniffle even!
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Never heard Dylan's version of "All Along the Watchtower"? Or if you did you think it sucks? Or you think it's either version that played on the show? My god, have Britney & Justin brainwashed this generation? Are they the real Cylons? Do yourself a favor, young-uns, and go pick up "Smash Hits" (plus "Are You Experienced", "Axis: Bold as Love" & "Electric Ladyland") by Hendrix and, um, anything by Dylan pre-1974 (I suggest "The Freewheelin'", "Highway 61 Revisited" and "The Times They Are A-Changin"...for starters). I suddenly feel real old for 37...
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I was a little worried that Tigh and the others were going to break out into a song and dance routine, leading me to conclude that season 4 will probably be told as a musical.
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Sci-Fi is taking the "24" and now "Lost" approach. Given that BSG is a serialized drama, the suits are deathly afraid of losing viewership. So starting in 2008 and going straight through is the easiest way to do things. If you read the other BSG article that Herc posted, and go to the link, you'll see the Moore has already broken the first 8 episodes of season 4. So while they're pretty much good to go, we're the ones who gotta do the waiting. I think I'd personally prefer the straight through approach, although I wish they would have waited a little while longer to bring back season 3.5. Oh, who am I kidding...the stuff is like crack.
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are another group of four (Anders, Tory, Tyrol and Tigh being the first group) - that's eight. Add one more group of four and we could possibly have the TWELVE Lords of Kobol.
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That was kind of...not good. Wasting 45 minutes on the trial and then suddenly 3 main characters turn out to be Cylons because they hear a Bob Dylan song and Starbuck is back? My prediction: they're not Cylons. It'll all have something to do with an updated version of the 'Ship of Lights' aliens from the 70s series who showed them the way to Earth.
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the ship of lights, like in the first series. some sort of god-like shit is going on here.
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The fact that the characters were actually repeating lyrics of the song is strange, though I guess not any stranger than Roslyn quoting Shakespeare (remember "pound of flesh"). Hard to say if we are supposed to interpret it as part of BSG's "cultural translations" (telephones and etc. make an alien world more approachable to human viewers -- I don't take these as literal but rather visual idiomatic translations of what this civilization actually uses) or if this is a sign of contact from post 70s Earth. I tend to go with the idea of archetypes -- that certain important concepts and symbols pop up independently across cultural divides.
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Btw why the hell wouldn't the show be back on this fall?
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Great, maybe someone that can answer my question. Was the tune on the show from any existing version of the song or did they redo it on the show?
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They were all too certain not to be. Chief even said something along the lines of "So, that's how it happens. A switch just flips."
But, the fifth -- is it Starbuck?
And, agreed. Ten frakkin months is way, way too long. I read an interview with Mary McDonnell and she said they start filming in May. I mean come on, bring it back sooner -- and put it back on Friday nights. -
I feel like Ron and David are going "Lost" on us, questions begetting more questions and not enough answers.
But being that there is so much agreement on the ep's excellence, maybe the radio tuner in my head is getting those signals from outer space again or something. I dunno. I felt like most of Season 3 accomplished very little... -
Are you fucking kidding me...
You don't know it that was Henderix's version, or not ???
Do you even listen to music?
Bob Dylan wrote the song, and his version is kick ass.
Jimi Hendrix covered the song, and his version is also kick ass...and perhaps more well known.
And a whole bunch of other people have covered the song. But if you can't tell that this is a crappy cover, re-make, and NOT Hendrix...than you seriously need to get out more and listen to some real music.
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Appeared after the show.
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OK. I'm gonna need some time to digest what I just saw. However, I will say this:Romo Lampkin. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. (Adama & Lampkin - Attorneys at Law)The first 45 minutes = BSG at its dramatic finest. Lee/Apollo lays down the laundry list of every major plot point revolving around the remnants of their prior civilization. He even swayed the Old Man.Now...here is my one concern...The last 10 minutes...what the hell was going on with the music? Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind the over-produced nu-metal version of "All Along the Watchtower"??? Is THAT the new direction the show is going in? For me, that may be the single biggest aesthetic mistake RDM has made all series. It completely took the steam out of the final closing minutes. Soooo weird.
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I attempted this earlier, but the TB doesn't like double paragraphs... (Mr. Dylan, if you're reading this TB, please forgive my tinkering...)---.---Oh the First Cylon War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
With the Gods on your side.
.
When the Second Cylon War
Came to an end
We forgave the Collaborators
And we were friends
Though they murdered five thousand
On New Caprica they died
The Collaborators now too
Have Gods on their side.
.
I've learned to hate Cylons
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With the Gods on my side.
.
So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If Ron Moore's on our side
He'll start the next season before 2008.
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They were headed to the Ionian Nebula to find the next step to Earth. They found Starbuck, who can take them there. It's obvious (to me, anyway) that Starbuck is one of the clues on the road to Earth, that she is a marker left behind to get them there -- after being taken in advance.
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Get a life. Sorry if I have better things to do than sit around listening to Bob Dylan's greatest hits or refreshing the AICN page over and over hoping be "FIRST!" Oh, and just for the record, Scifi won't put it back on Fridays because then all of us who HAVE a life won't get to watch it live. Only the nerds in their moms basements, who bitch about people not knowing music can tune in live every Friday. Yeah, shut it.
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While there's no way those 4 are cylons (why would they "activate" as soon as they got that close to Earth if they were cylons? And why an Earth song?) there is little reason for Roslin to be in a cylon dream if she isn't one. While I suppose they could make up some crap about the hybrid baby cancer cure, I don't buy it.Everyone who has said Roslin is a cylon has been right.However, the final five cylons clearly have a different agenda than the 7 who have been hunting down humanity. So I wouldn't assume that they are out to destroy humanity.
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The fifth is Ros, she was the only "non cylon" sharing a cylon dream and she wiped out right before the power went down on Galactica. Of course she could have been the only one sharing the dream because she has half cylon blood in her....
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Sorry, been a while since I've been here, in fact I've had to re-register just to post. Have a theory about the finale but don't want to hurt peoples eyes with endless text so any help would be appreciated.
Oh and I stayed all night to catch this episode on a web stream of Sci-Fi...worth it? Definitely -
Thd closing gave me chill bumps -- and I don't mind they updated the music.
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I like to come to AICN TBs to hear what throbbing, sore, pus-infected pussies sound like. Of course, I could just visit any of the whiners' mothers with a six pack of Old Milwaukee Light in one hand and a five dollar bill in the other, but then I might catch something...
Excellent episode. Count me in with the group that says Tyrol, Tigh, et al. are NOT Cylons. -
The odd rendition of Watchtower sounded like an electronically twisted Sitar -- perhaps Ravi Shankar is the 5th cylon...
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When I saw Tory and Tigh look at each other across the CIC, there was conspiracy in the air. Likewise when Tyrol and Anders eyed each other on the deck, there was a plan. When the power went off simultaneously, there was no explanation - the Cylons did not have such power. The humans and Cylons are puppets of an even greater power. And now that they are at Earth, they will find where the plan originated.
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takes a while before symptoms show up. Remember Doral? Sharon was there, too.
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Wait, was that the same vision Baltar had on Kobol, but seen from different perspectives?
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Are you seriously arguing that the only people who could possibly know that the version they played during the episode wasn't Dylan or Hendrix are obsessed basement dwelling nerds? Um, no. How about "every person who has ever listened to the radio for ten minutes in their entire fucking life" should be able to instantly make that determination? Seriously, are you retarded or something?
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M'boy, the version on the show bears very little resemblance to Dylan/Hendrix, only the melody & lyric. The version on the show is credited as "All Along the Watchtower, Words and music by Bob Dylan. Vocals by Bt4. Adapted, Arranged and Produced by Bear Mc Creary". Hope that helps. IMHO, Dylan's is the more "meaningful" version while Hendrix's is the more rockin version (no shit, eh?), and this new take is one I'd mors likely do my Yoga practice to.
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Oh yeah, there was definitely some twisted sitar in there. But didn't you hear the low end chunky guitar start up when Tigh and the Gang met up in that closed room?
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More Baltar as Jesus fodder...his own cult...one God....
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They're selling postcards of Baltar's trial, They're rebooting the characters again.
Galactica is filled with toasters.
The viewers are in pain.
Here comes Aeryn Sun from Farscape,
They've got her in on contract
Forced to show up on Dresden Files
And Stargate, poor Ms. Black.
And the BSG fans, they're restless
They need somewhere to go,
As Ron Moore and I look out tonight
From Cancellation Row.
Starbuck, it seems so easy
For her to be back from the grave.
She missed two episodes of filler
and still don't know how to behave.
And in comes Apollo, he's moaning
"I love and hate my dad, I believe"
And someone says "We've already seen this my friend, you had better leave."
And the only sound that's left
After All Along the Watchtower Goes,
Is BSG fans breathing a collective sigh on Cancellation Row. -
But I'm thinking it could be a mix of things...what if the human model Cylons are those beings of light (or whatever they're called) from the original series...but here's the thing...they represent Iblis, while the Final Five (including Starbuck) represent the good beings of light (what are they called? It's driving me crazy). I dunno it's nearly 5am...brain is on standby
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...from Earth.
It's a song from Earth, it would make sense. As to why those 4 are the only ones who picked up the signal, who the shit knows. Maybe they're getting radio signals in the fillings in their molars.
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like
this? -
Howard Stern played a snippet of a studio version before he appeared and played it at the Super Bowl.
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Copyright issues. As for the ending, RDM was going to bust out Hendrix as background music for the season 1 finale when Baltar was lucid dreaming about Six and the opera house. Guess he didn't want to give up on the idea. I personally think this ep salvaged the second half of this season, which completely stalled after D'Anna was "boxed".
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No, that's not what I said. I just get tired of people throwing hissy fits expecting everyone else to know the history and every damn detail of any given song.
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If you're serious in your comment that only basement dwelling mama's boys know Dylan....
Three words....
Eat A Dick. -
Yeah, people bitched when the Pegasus arrived with funky guitar riffs.I got no problem with, new-agey-rock = hope.
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As they get closer, the music gets more frequent. They get to the Nebula, the music is persistent, and the power goes off. They are brought together, the music stops ... and then a few minutes later the power comes back on. This is not accidental.
Whether or not it's tied into Starbuck is a different question.Although the fact that Tyrol was the one that led them to the Temple makes me think that just maybe it is ... -
...is one of those covered by everybody songs anyway. My wife just played me a bit of a cover by the Indigo Girls. Hmmmm.
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Baltar appeared in one scene in the Opera House with Six and Hera in tonight's episode. I wonder if that adds any additional significance to his part in the story?
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This version of the tune had an "Indian" (not native American, like Hadji Indian" feel to it. I didn't mind it. Gave things a surreal, mysterious twinge.
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One of the "very" few shows I make time for these days, and fuck me... they're not back on till 2008?! Shit. But, like other people have mentioned, so glad I stayed away from the "spoiler" talkback of last week. This was a great episode. But now, who is the final Cylon of the "five"? President Roslin or Starbuck? I mean, Roslin did sort of experience something as soon as they completed the jump. And the look on Starbuck as she says "I know the way to Earth..." with the fleet and the Base Stars in the distance. My brain hurts, damn 2008 can't get here quick enough...
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All Along the Watchtower is not obscure. It's basic cultural literacy. If you couldn't tell that wasn't Dylan or Hendrix, you're the loser.
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Type quieter, you'll wake up your mom.
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Now then...
As for Tigh...when Xena (I refuse to call her by any other name) saw the final five and apologised...it must have been to Tigh for the cylons taking his eye. -
It was a clean-shaven Baltar, so I think it was the Baltar from Kobol. That's why he didn't experience it with them, because he has already.
The other explanation is that it's In-Head Baltar, just like In-Head Six was in the Opera House on Kobol with Baltar. -
If the four hearing "All Along the Watchtower" is supposed to be meant literally...and that they are actually somehow picking up transmission from Earth of the song being played on radio during the late 60s, AND ASSUMING the BSG timeline is co-incident with our Present Day (2007), then Battle Star Galactica fleet can be NO MORE than approx. 40 light years away from our Solar System. There is no Nebula system this close to our Solar System. Therefore, if the writer/producer's use of this song is in fact "literal", and not simply metaphorical, than by the time the BSG fleet reaches Earth (since they currently are much farther away than 40 Light Years)...this means more time has passed here on Earth, and they will reach Earth sometime in our future...perhaps hundereds to thousands of years from today (2007).
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Although I disagree with your opinion, I applaud your cleverness. Cancellation Row...that's fucking funny! I'm glad you didn't go on for 11 minutes like Robert Zimmerman did, though.
Epsilon...
Robert Zimmerman = Bob Dylan.
from one nerd to another.... -
Yes of course. And I'm sure no one at your office laughs at you behind your back when you say, "You don't watch Galactica? It's fantastic drama. You're losers."
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Faster Than Light
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Criminy!
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If 5 were revealed tonight, why were only 4 hearing the music? As of right now, I believe Tigh, Tory, Anders, & Tyrol are NOT Cylons. Well...at least not in the way we've had them explained to us in the past.So far, the one scene that seems to be missing in this TB is Roslin's vision. When that occured, I immediately thought we just had a first Cylon outing of the episode. But I say that with this one caveat: Caprica Six said that Roslin's vision was not possible. Athena's response inferred that it was because things were changing. Does this confirm Roslin as a Cylon? Or, are Humans now crossing over into the Cylon consciousness???
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is co-incident with the present? I've seen nothing to indicate that it should be so.
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My mom lives 700+ miles away, you douche. My hot assed wife is in bed asleep, I gave her the "matrimonial sleeping pill" a little earlier this evening, if you know what I mean. She'll be catching the show tomorrow night when I burn it from TiVo onto DVD. What's YOUR story, anyway?
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I also think that the 4 "Cylons" are oddly attuned to an Earth transmission, but that doesn't make them Cylons... which would still allow Tigh to age and not be a replicant/skinjob...Or that could just be what my feeble mind chooses to believe, lest my whole world fall to pieces...I await the Podcast(So say we all.)
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Just like on Kobol, when In-Head Six shows Baltar the baby. I think it's the same thing, and it does nothing to confirm or deny Roslin's Cylon-ity.
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epislon person, if you liked the music you might want to check out "Secret Chiefs 3".... they don't do Dylan and don't do vocals, but the music tonight reminded me of them somewhat
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Because Dirklon isn't in the fleet! ... now am I kidding or am I serious?
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So, if they're picking up 60's radio-signals, couldn't they pick up 70's TV too? Maybe next they'll meet up in the room quoting lines from the old show...Tigh-"There are some who believe"...Chief-"that life here began out there"...
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chrth - of course!
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With D'Anna and Six both seeing the images of the final five, wouldn't it have been more dramatic for us to have seen their faces in the white robes? That would have proven one way or another. Since we didn't, maybe this lends itself to the idea that Tigh,Tyrol, Anders, and Tory are NOT really cylons.
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Because they didn't really fight it. When the music stopped, the switch flipped, and seeing the others confirmed what they knew.
As someone else said, though -- just because they're Cylons doesn't mean their bad. We still don't know what the meaning of the Final Five is. -
MNG - I was attempting to reference the vision when I mentioned Athena, Hera, Six, and Roslin as the second group of four. My post lacked your clarity on the subject.:-)Nice recall about the "things are changing" line, too. IMO that opens the door to the 3rd party you/we mentioned last week.
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It may be connected to the whole Cylon thing of being where you imagine yourself to be that was explored while Jesu...Baltar was on the Basestar which could mean that it's also connected to Caprica and Baltars visions of each other...in which case, if they're (the human race) not all actually Cylon descendant, then Roslin isn't a Cylon, because including Baltar (who did appear in a vision) that would make 13 models, not 12...if the four revealed are Cylons.
However, given Baltars status as a chosen one...perhaps there are actually 13 models...the 12 models that represent the 12 Lords of Kobol and the 13th - Baltar, who represents the overlord or ruler - the one true God. -
I know Six didn't see their faces, I'm just saying, since she saw their figures in her dream, wouldn't it have been more dramatic for her/us to have seen their faces tonight to prove that Tyrol/Tigh/Torry/Anders were indeed them? Since we didn't, makes me buy into the idea that they are experiencing something else.
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A Love Supreme, by Trane. So say we all.
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You mean Rohypnol, right?I'm pretty sure that's what Epsilon uses to get women....,p>I kid, I kid... (For me to poop on.)
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Because they still don't want to reveal the Final Fifth.
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Would have been more appropriate, wouldn't it? Especially for Cylons?
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Kind of abrupt, it just didn't feel right. If Tigh really is a Cylon, he's pretty lousy at it. He should have been kicked out a good many times over already.
I was getting really annoyed when watchtower kicked in till I realized it must have had something to do with Earth coming into the picture, and them wham, there's Starbuck. Was the music the 4(5) were hearing the same music perhaps??? That would be even odder, but par for the course on an ep like this one.
I had figured that Roslin was the fifth cylon up until that point. If they are actually cylons, then it's kind of a waste to reveal them all at once. But still, Roslin does come across as very cylony. And they're all the biggest instigators. Perhaps fighting a proxy war through the humans?
All in all though, I felt it was kind of stupid. I like big surprises a lot, but they all came across as kind of hallow since there was no way to have anticipated them, prior to them hearing the music that is. The courtroom brought a plenty of good points, albeit in a cheesy manner. The dialog was kind of corny. Although I can hope they're setting up for something good next season, the last finale wtf they pulled resulted in a quick reset. If earth is real, that might lead to an interesting final season I suppose. Or a really bad one. Either way, I guess they needed to do something radically different after this lame season. Definitely Earth: Final Conflict / Andromeda quality show. I have fond memories of those shows for their first seasons and some of their second. Even Lost is managing to pull it out in it's final stretch here. Which is why I still watch if I have problems. Sometimes shows turn around. Maybe the long hiatus will give them some inspiration. *sigh* remember farscape? -
I'll be back in the morning with more burgeoning insights.
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David Eick is busy producing BIONIC WOMAN for NBC (as I've posted in past TBs)- me thinks.
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This is about the fact that for some unfathomable reason [although I'm guessing it's because you're 14 and the only music you own is Paris Hilton's album] you don't know an extremely simple cultural fact, and rather than be sheepish about it you're trying to make it something to be proud of, by asserting that your lack of knowledge proves that you aren't a dork. And that's pretty sad. Because there are some things that if you know them you're a dork, but there are other things that everyone who isn't a mongoloid simply must know if only by osmosis, and it doesn't really reflect well on you that you don't know which is which.
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Kilroy was Here, then Double Life is more appropriate:
Nowhere to hide though he both might try
I'm schizophrenic and so am I -
Again, I am not insisting that when the BSG fleet reaches Earth, it will be our Present Day.
However, let's assume that is the way the writer's are going with this.
As I already pointed out, there is NO nebula system anywhere close to the 40 light year travel time that this song/transmission has taken, when first played. If the "Ionion" Nebula (AS AN EXAMPLE), is our familiar Orion Nebula...the Orion Nebula is 1,500 light years away. That means, if the BSG fleet is at the Orion Nebula, and Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower" is being heard...than that means that at least 1,500 years (Earth time) has passed since the late 60s. If it is a later "version" of the song, being played later on (say in today's 2007)...that only makes it worse.
2007+1500 = 3507 AD.
So, if the BSG engages their fantastical Faster than Light (FLT) drives, they will reach Earth NO EARLIER than 3507 AD. It is very simple, really. -
http://tinyurl.com/2mrwxhVanilla Fudge's version of "You Keep Me Hanging On":-)
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...the four of them being Cylons. Unless everyone in the fleet's a Cylon and the whole thing is some kind of in vivo experiment, which I don't believe for a moment. So, what do these four have in common? They were all on New Caprica. And none of the four of them were taken out for execution by the Cylons, if memory serves (MNG/Chrth, correct me if I'm wrong). So was something done to them on Caprica, did that something allow the Cylons to track the fleet, and what else is it doing? Or is it something else entirely? However you look at it I don't buy that they're Cylons.
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Since I had no idea about this song outside of its mention in the Watchmen prior to this episode.
That should be 'though WE both might try' -
I got bored and stopped reading your post halfway through the first sentence, so I'll just assume it was as much of a pile of crap as the rest of your posts. I think I'm safe on those odds.
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It travels much slower.
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When she started talking to Apollo the wife and I said at almost the same moment "that's not a good thing". Got my Count Iblis antenna twitching.
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And yes, Jimi Hendrix's version is vastly superior to Bob Dylan's, which is why everyone thinks Hendrix wrote it. I like Dylan, but his original version definitely sucks compared to Jimi's. Deal with it.
Oh, and I really hope Tyrol, Tigh, Sam and the chick Sam's doing whose name I can't remember were just altered by one of the Cylon factions during their time on New Caprica and are not actual Cylons. I like the idea that each of them has a chip in their head that is picking up old radio transmissions from Earth like "All Along The Watchtower."
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Thanks for the credits info on the song.
And thanks to Epsilon for asking the question.
I'm hoping for a release of this cover on the season 3 soundtrack, because I really did like it. Had a kind of Middle Eastern flavor to it, like the music from the Prince of Persia: Sands of Time game. In the meantime, I will check out the Bob Dylan and Jimmy Hendrix versions.
I thought it fit very well with the end montage, would be cool if they somehow tie it into the story. -
It worked for Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, so why not Battlestar. Especially since this episode felt more like a comedy.
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This thread reminds me of college, when every loser dormmate I had, that was a little too into what he liked (i.e. starcraft, Godsmack, golf), talked down to you because you didn't have an orgasm over it the way he did. I wasn't familiar with the song, try to get some sleep tonight despite knowing that.
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was recorded for eternity on a solid gold LP (that's Long Playing Album, kids, like on a record player) that was shot into space aboard the Voyager probes, thanks in no small part to my favorite popular-scientist Carl Sagan. Onboard is the LP, a stylus, and graphic instructions on how to put the two together to make sounds. The LP contains music, sounds and greetings in 50 some odd languages, as well as a "galactic map" on how to find us here on Earth. Maybe that's what Starbuck found? If she starts to do the Mick Jagger rooster-strut...I'm sold! (google "Voyager Probe" to find out more about what may, in the cosmic scale of time, be our most long-lived human artifact)
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You are joking, right?
Please tell me you are being stupid.
These are radio waves, that, like all electro-magnetic radiation, propogate at the speed of light
jeez -
Yeah, I'm really starting to feel a 3rd party influence the more I think about this.
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No matter how you try to sell it, your ignorance isn't a badge of honor. It's just plain ignorance.
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Well I personally think it's more likely that 3507 was the year a group of 12 ships set out from Earth to colonise a distant world called Kobol...eventually, some of the descendants returned to Earth while the rest, ignorant of their histroy, go deeper into space to form the 12 colonies of Kobol..in which case...it could be closer to the year 10,000AD when BSG is set.
As for FTL...well it means faster than light...so by that reckoning...it may have taken 40 years for the song to reach the nebula but since the ships go faster than the speed of light, for the fleet to get to Earth could take as little as a month. The problem is, we don't know how much faster than light the ships go and how far they can jump in one go.
However, given Kara's claim to have visited Earth, it can't be too many jumps away given that kara manged to get there and back in the space of a few episodes, though we have to wait to find out how she go to Earth to be sure. -
You could wow them with your pride in your lack of knowledge of items at a similar level of difficulty, like who the first President was, who the current secretary of state is, how many Beatles there were, who is buried in Grant's Tomb, etc. And then you can get big laughs with retorts like, "You people who know that stop signs are red are like dorks who are way too into Starcraft!"
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This is the only thing that makes sense: The temple with the five pillars and maelstrom (a wormhole, I'm guessing) are very, very old. The temple was made by humans enroute to earth, right? Then why does this very old temple allow deanna to see the 5? Because the cylons are far older than we think they are. Not the cylons as robots, but the cylons as an intelligence.
How is it that the colonists left Kobol a mere few thousand years ago when we've been living on earth for a hundred thousand? Logically, human life started on Earth, humans traveled to Kobol, (perhaps with some sort of artificial intelligence that would eventually EVOLVE into cylons. Like the opening credits say, they were created by men, rebelled, and evolved). Something happened on Kobol to make humans forget they were from Earth, and people turned into polytheists and worshipped the old earth legends of the Greek gods.
Vadakin's comment about the 12 models and 12 Lords pf Kobol and 12 colonies is dead on...these two races have a special, shared history. Something happene don Kobol that 1) splintered the human race into the stars, 2) turned the source of our oriigns (earth) into myth, 3) led to the creation or first evolution of the cylons, and 4) turned a logical race of human beings into a polytheist society.
The link between the 5/Earth would explain why they were picking up what I assume were some shared memories from a very, very long time ago (childhood, like Tyrol said) when they were being created on earth. Hell, the show probably takes place in the year 3000.
An interesting sub point is, can the mystical events of the show (visions, special destinies, etc.) be explained through science (weird genetic encoding, tacheon beams?), or does the show abandon being true science fiction by allowing mysticism into its universe? -
I'm officially done with this series. No hate or anything. Just tired of disappointment. It's been a rough season, full of letdowns and just when things seemed to be picking up, it got way too silly for me to enjoy anymore. Anyhow, let's hope the ratings were at least above a 1.1.
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Not you tritium, you're right, I was being stupid. It's these other fellers. I'm not siding with Epsilon, mind you, but I'm not sure I like the attitudes being expressed here.
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Good to see you back. You're right = the 4 were not taken out for execution. However, with the exception of Tigh, none of them were ever in Cylon custody. So, I don't know what they could have done to them in order to track the fleet. (Unless of course there is a homing device in Tigh's eye socket!)
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Didn't I say I was going to bed?
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...I'm truly tired of hearing you serially confess your ignorance of something I don't give a damn if you know or not. Do you know it now? Good. Do you not care? Fine. I don't either. Can you let it go? If you can't you're revealing more about yourself than you're probably intending to.
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You are right oh wise one. How in the world have I made it this far without a working knowledge of every Bob Dylan song ever written. I truly am a miracle child. Thanks for enlightening me. You're Clarence to my George Bailey. Now off with you, go get your wings. Beotch.
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I like you better when you're not talking. Shhh.
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...well, some dumbass read the spoilers last week and exiled himself from the site until tonight. Yeah, either you've got to believe that it was done to them without them having to be in the prison or that the others spent time there we weren't shown. The first is possible, the second doesn't seem in keeping with the show's style. Maybe something in food or water, maybe something they were injected with. But I'm just stabbing in the dark on this. Them actually being Cylons just isn't ringing true to me at all.
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The shit I am reading here, is really a sad commentary on the state of Science education in society today. Kentucky Colonel, despite the totally ridiculous conceit of using the Voyager prope in Star Trek the Motion Picture...it made absolutely no sense from a Physics standpoint. The Voyager probe is currently reaching or has just passed the heliopause, which, in short, means it has just left our Solar System. The Gulf between the stars is so vast, and is almost beyond comprehension, given our present technology. Despite having a velocity of Voyager 1 probe of around 39,000 miles per hour ====> it would take it over 73,000 years to reach it. And, by the way, its trajectory takes it no where near our nearest star (Proxima Centauri).
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Two minutes of my shrimpy limp dick is enough to put any woman to sleep...or at least roll over and fake it. No date rape drugs for this dude!
however, I think my Ambien is kicking in...I feel the need for a Taco Bell Bean Burrito, and that can only mean trouble.
Happy to provide the song credit. If you don't know the song, BY ALL MEANS download it now....legally, of course.
Laura is having shared visions because she has CYLON BLOOD, methinks.
Kilroy Was Here? How about "Heavy Metal Poisoning"? "...music wastelland that destroys the young...overloaded on sex and drugs, sex and drugs, sex and drugs...AND ROCK AND ROLL!" That Chuck Panazzo...what a vocal stylist!
I must be high on ambien...I remembered Chuck Panazzo's name! I just hope I spelled it right.
The wife & I are going to London, Paris & Amsterdam this week for an extended vacation. Any of you world travelers have any suggestions (yes, I've heard about "The Bulldog" in Amsterdam, thank you)? I'm with chrth..time for bed. Plenty of time for zippy comebacks tomorrow. Nighty-Nite! -
Convoy by C.W. McCall. Greatest trucking song ever recorded and appropriate given that the fleet is basically just a big ol' convoy. And I'll throw my 2 cents in and say that anyone who doesn't recognize All Along the Watchtower needs to get out of the house.
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...is additional evidence of a third party IMO.Also, Baltar developing a major following which treats him as if he is a deliverer combined with Roslin's extraordinary seething rage at his acquittal, has got me wondering about her alot more now.
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If you are officially done with the show, should we not expect you back in TB?
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It is in the heliosheath though.
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for Voyager 1 to reach our CLOSEST neighbor star, Proxima Centauri, if it was heading that way. Damn stupid website with no Edit function in this TalkBack forum. I think A'int It Cool NEws is using software from 10 years ago
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Did anyone else feel bad watching Seelix get cock-blocked by Tory?
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and never were...what if the human models are actually us in the future? what do I mean?
Well, there are always people speculating that in the future, we will be able to transfer our essence to new bodies. What if the human models are actually the Lords of Kobol, who transferred their "souls" to clone bodies to survive whatever disaster took place on Kobol? But somewhere along the way, the process went wrong and corrupted their brain patterns? There are 12 models and many copies...what if the personality of each copy of each model is part of the mind of the original Lord of Kobol?
For example...take six...Caprica Six's mind contains part of the essence of one of the Lords...another Six model contains another part and so on.
Yeah, I should stop with my wild theories -
they play it really fast, though. Anyway, cool ending. I kinda put it together early on and I was mildly spoiled (damn you, Ausiello!) But it was still neat to see it unfold. I love how the 'viewer quiz' had the question about the music hearers and the final option was c) a new third party. They kinda give it away right there. It's obvious they're going to the 'broadcast from Earth' route and these 4 are not cylons. I'm not even sure they're the final five. We don't really even know what the final five are yet. So plenty of mysteries for next year. The one thing that was unbelievable was that they would never let Apollo testify like that. His speech was great, but it would have never happened. And now I'm really wondering where Baltar was taken.
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...I said let them truckers roll, 10-4. And Epsilon, knowing THIS song does make you a nerd. I can also quote Billy Don't be a Hero, One Tin Soldier and Seasons in the Sun. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
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No shit, it was launched in 1977...I'm talking COSMIC TIMESCALES, OK? Voyager is like, maybe 12 light minutes from Earth, right? That's beans compared to SPACE, n'est ce pas? I was just having some fun and trying to get the kids to read up a little, y'know. And the Voyager cameo in ST:TMP really churns my butter. Hated it. Dumbest plot device ever. I would, however, love to see Kara do the "Rooster Strut" like Mick.
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of Science education exhibited here on this board was not directed at you. It is more a general observation, and not targeted at anyone specifically. So, please do not take offense, as no offense was meant
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Considering Anders' wife had only disappeared a few episodes ago.
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I think you're on the right track...they're more than just elaborate toasters...and the people in the fleet have bene aorund a lot longer than they know. Also, Chief and Callie have a half Cylon baby.
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Who wouldn't have loved seeing Tigh sing "AND I'LL NEVER HAVE THAT RECIPE AGAIN! OH NO!"
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We're all real men here. Well, most of us, anyway. I applaud anyone these days who even knows words like "heliopause". That's where the solar winds from our sun fade away into the cosmic background, kids (to put it simply).
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And note, I screwed up in my original reply to you, and posted a correction...here it is again:
I meant to write that it would take 73,000 years for Voyager 1 to reach our CLOSEST neighbor star, Proxima Centauri, if it was heading that way. -
Weren't Anders and Seelix getting "friendly" in the bar a couple weeks back? No worries. I'm here for ya, Seelix.
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Voyagers 1 and 2 refused to appear without being paid, and with the budget going overboard, they had to create a fictional Voyager.
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it would explain why they have rotary phones, books that look like our's...and that they speak the same language as us. Well,as Americans, at least.
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Kilroy was Here. Panazzo does Double Life as well, though, so we'd still get his melodious voice.
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Anders is a hound-dog. Awooooo!
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needs to play the field. I didn't think Ms. Presidential Aide was that hot...until tonight. Schwing! Seelix is still hotter, though.
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...I thought they made their best pass yet during Apollo's testimony at explaining how things like Apollo's testimony happen. These people are just hanging onto the facade of their civilization by the skin of their teeth, and the center's just not holding. It made me feel a little bit better about things that have been let slide in the past (well, except for Helo selling out the entire human race...ah, maybe even that a little). You had merchant ship captains sitting on the tribunal. In a real court of law it would have never even gotten started. Here it seemed the most successful attempt at rationalizing some kind of hard to swallow stuff that had come before, and made itself go down pretty easy at the same time.
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Maybe the fleet is only 40 light years from Earth and are about to jump in the wrong direction. How close is the Shark nebula?
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Am I the only one here who believes that Adama is the cylon and Starbuck has appeared to him because the cylons know where Earth is and they're using the image of Starbuck to lead him to it? And they're not activating him because they don't want him to know? I think the lawyer has more to do with the cylons than they've said.
But, yeah...I believe, IMHO that Adama is the cylon. Am I wrong?
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It's apollo, not adama. sorry
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the "Paradise Theater" LP, the one with the laser etching on the back. Two copies, even. What a nerd! Tommy Shaw & Jack Blades are playing here in DC tomorrow at the Birchmere. I'd be there, too, if they weren't charging $45 to get in. That's like $25 too much. Don't let it end!
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...yeah, but the line, done mournfully as only Tigh could do it, that would have been perfect would have been "it took so long to bake it". Just imagine the sad cyclopean stare into nothing as those words trickled through his lips.
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If there hasn`t been a plausible reason for the Cylons to be able to track the fleet suggested yet-then i`d like to posit this one:
The reason for the 4 picking up the song is feedback from the chips the cylons implanted during the year on New Caprica. Like RFID tags, the Cylons know the position of the fleet by scanning for their signature through space.
Starbuck has been taken to Earth by the mysterious "Third Race" - who will turn out to be representatives of the 13th Colony. They realised it was only a matter of time before their lost brethren or the Cylons came looking for them. Better to "encourage" both Humans & Cylons to reconcile & play nicely together first. Hence the lessons learned by both sides during the journey.
Unfortunately, they have tried this before & it didn`t work. It doesn`t seem to be working this time either. So maybe-some time in the future, it will all happen again...
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...the last person who promised to lead a Galactica to earth was a very bad mangod. On the other hand that Viper was awfully white bright.
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I don't buy that earhtlings are a "third race," just because physiologically we'rte the same as the other colonists.
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album. You rock, man!
But not as hard as KC does. That man is a Styx fan! -
What the heck is the "Shark Nebula".
That is not a common-name reference to any Messier or NGC (New General Catalogue) Astronomical object I am aware of. Is the "Shark" nebula a term used in the BSG universe? -
As has been already suggested,the timeline indicated by the age of the song being intercepted on the RFID tags is either 60`s or 70`s music broadcast by radiowaves from Earth.
The distance the fleet is currently traversing appears(according to Tritium) puts the fleet arriving around 3507AD according to the speed radiowaves travel.
That far into earths future, wouldn`t the "13th colony" have developed technologies & science far in advance of either the fleet or the Cylons? Certainly advanced enough to be using a "Ship of lights"? (Some like to say that we already have A-Grav tech already on Earth! Check out Area 51 conspiracy theories)
I think the 13th colony is stage-managing events with their own "Sleeper Agents" - to bring both the Cylons & Humans together in peace when they eventually arrive at Earth. If not, then the whole experiment will be scrubbed ~& started again. -
That VERRRRY subtley, sort of underneath the music as Kara was flying near Lee - the "flying Cylon raider" sound effect? -
Exactly...if Earth was the original planet, that explains all of the issues of the timeline...because we' be very, very faar into earth'ss future at this point.
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of the song makes the dangerous assumption that it is a broadcast from earth that is being heard. Which, if you're us, here, now, and with the sci-fi and fortean play that kind of thing has gotten, is a natural assumption, but which seems to be taking a lot on faith given the nature of this show.
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I think it's incredibly pointless to try and decipher what year it is by radio waves and speed of travel. Fact is, we don't know how fast FTL is. We also don't know from what time period the song is coming from. All we DO know is that it is unlikely for Earth to currently be pre-1970, given the fact that the song was written around that time. It's still likely they can show up BC, since who knows if time travel can be established in this universe. I applaud the efforts of those making the connections, but I just don't think that any calculations will lead us to the truth of the matter.
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...because if it was, wwhy would only these four cylons heard it, and not athena and 6? Somethign about the song was programmed to trigger their knowledge that they were cylons, maybe?
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...this could be the Greensleeves of five hundred years in the future, when some sort of faster than light travel is used by people from earth...or it could be an artifact broadcast from anywhere of music from a dead civilization discovered by whoever...or something plucked from a hybrid's screwy racial memory of a time millenia in the past...or a song Starbuck really liked when she visited earth in the 70s, which are still going on, and plays a lot on her cockpit DVD player. Or...really, you can do this forever.
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OK, I laughed out loud at that one. :)
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Where to start? Great two-part season ender, but we have to wait until ’08? What’s that about – where’s our summer fix?
First, the four humans that now think they are Cylons, took a big leap of logic to come to that conclusion. I realize that’s the reality they live in, but why not surmise first that you were brainwashed or something else like implants while on New Caprica? Implants would explain Roslin’s dreams and connection to the Cylons.
My second thought surrounds the notion that there are no humans. Everyone is a Cylon, at this point in time. That might explain the 13th colony and why that group left to find Earth (which raises a question of mine. How does anyone from the 12 colonies know about Earth, left alone a path to get there? How did the 13th colony send info back to the other 12)?
Lastly, is Sackoff signed for next season? I didn’t think she was. So, will we see her or a new Starbuck in season 4?
R.J. -
Best one liner of the episode. BTW the "Count Iblis" and other stuff mentioned weekly in this talkback from the original BSG has me wanting to check it out. I guess I have a lot of time to do so, with the wait until next season.
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I was thinking the dreams that Roslin has in conjunction with the other Cylons is due to her using the baby's blood to cure herself, but I guess it could be the implant instead. Hope we find out.
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Wow. I was thrown off a bit at first by the Dylan lyrics, but I'm sure there is a reason for it and the final shot really links the show to our reality, making it much more plausible.
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Mar 26, 2007 12:33:55 AM CDT
Gives whole new meaning to facing the music, doesn't it
by unwell_arena
So very very sorry, ladies and gentlemen. I just had to get that out of my system. Carry on.
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Dont forget that Starbuck had been to earth already. She could have been back and transmitting the song from her ship.
There are dozens of ways for them to write around it. -
Why the hell do they keep taking these longs breaks!!! Thats why they are losing viewership, do they hope people will catch up with season 4 on DVD??? Did we see 4 of the final 5 cyclons tonight or did the cyclons implant some kind of tracking device inside them and it's picking up music from earth or the karoke competition from one of the ships in the fleet? Is starbuck stuck in some kind of wormhole that took her to earth. Was that the worse cover of all along the watchtower?!?!?! Well we have to wait until fracking next year to find out, frack me!!!!! Spoiler free until Spidey 3!!!!! -
Frak. They played the theme to the original BSG in the mini-series. Does that mean they are receiving TV signals from Earth with bad 70s television?
Everything they use and have, including cars, radios and portable DVD players, looks just like our stuff - not because it means anything but because you have to have "suspension of disbelief" in order to watch the show. Because they don't need to create "slightly" different crap because we can all assume that... it's different.
Of course, at this point with the show... it will probably turn out that it is completely literal and the year is 1967 when the song was released.
So nevermind. -
So how come we didn't get to find out why Gaeta tried to kill Baltar. I was assuming we'd have some kind of revelation...like Gaeta used to service Baltar under the desk back on New Caprica...
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can travel faster than light if they happen to pass through a wormhole or stargate or interdimensional portal or other handy sci-fi device.
Re Roslin's dreams -- perhaps the result of chamala (sp?), not cylon blood, since she's had accurate chamala-induced visions prior to getting cylon blood. -
That speech jumped the shark. Sick of all the frakin uber guilt and introspection unworthy of the last of humanity trapped in an extended fight or flight scenario. Especially from an arrested adolescent who dicks up everything he touches. Yeah, we all make mistakes, and maybe poor ole Baltar was just coping as best a narcisist could. But frak, how did he come to be in custody? Answer: helping the machines track down the remnants of humanity. Game over. air lock open. and we can all share distant melancholy looks over it after the fact.
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"The fleet sails on without me." - Gorrister after Roslin's miracle cancer cure.
Pardon us if we don't hold our breath while waiting for you to come back. Again. -
I may not be the first to mention this but, Wouldn't that make their baby a hybrid too like hera??? RSM did not think this through.. BTW if this was mentioned earlier in the post... sorry, but the talkback was too damn long for me to read all the way through.... if not, then I'm a damn Genius!!! kidding.. Also take the Hendrix v. Dylan bs to another forum...
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Baltar sees Cylon in his head
Six sees Baltar in her head
Roslyn cancer treated by half cyclon DNA
Roslyn reacts to power outtage
At least 4 shipmates hear mysery music
Starbuck subconciously is guide back to Earth...possibly via the Arrow of Apollo as previously hinted?
There are others but I'm tired and it's late. :) -
Just because the 4 of them think they are Cylons doesn't make it so. And it doesnt make any sense, either.
I think they are probably connected to the Lords of Kobol, and they are attuned to hearing transmissions from Earth. The closer the fleet gets to Earth, the more they hear it. Perhaps the song in their head is the sign located at the Nebula?
Roslin's connection with the dreams is definitely due to the transfusion of hybrid-baby blood.
I think whatever Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and hot Presidential Assistant turn out to be, they are NOT the final Five. Would make *zero* sense. -
Starbuck isn't a cylon, she's an angel, or saint, whatever you want to call her... someone who has "ascended" to borrow a Stargate phrase. She chose 4 other people to give this gift of ascension to- 3 key people who are majorly important to the fleet (and Anders, just because of the relationship they once had). This makes 5 ascended beings to counter the 5 unknown cylons.
My money is on Romo Lampkin as one of the final five- the "Lucifer" of the bunch. It only makes sense. Listen to all the things he says- all the hints he drops. He's the king of the liars, a twisted lawyer, and he couldn't help Baltar because "he has other things to do." (Did you see him wink after that comment)? -
Should have been..... LOVE MACHINE!
And I wont frak for nobody but you.... I'm just a love machine.... :D
Fernwick -
I cant stop laughing visualizing them replacing all that Bob Dylan with Love Machine, LOL...
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It's rather the reverse. Shame on Herc and everyone else who read spoilers beforehand and believed the hype. Suckers.
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Holy shit. I really dug this whole ep. Great finale shot of earth. Sort of the producers way of sayin we're in the home stretch. Hate that we have to wait until 2008.I liked the music, maybe because it was SO different and had this building frantic sort of quality to it that really worked in my opinion.
Those 4 cylons? I hope not. God damn that'd be too easy. All of them could have been in positions to be experimented on at one point or another. I'm thinking that has something to do with it. Another trick of RDM. And how did Starbuck get a viper? I sort of fear that she's not REALLY back and just a vision... But she does seem to know the way to earth (they showed us as much with the camera flyby) so she has to be more than simply a delusion of Lee's... -
...they're in a NEBULA. Isn't it kind of an unwritten rule in all Science Fiction that crazy things happen in nebulas? Maybe this nebula in some way connects to the Maelstrom planet...fun to speculate. Appropriate using the Dylan tune. The whole last act was pretty trippy. If Tigh and company are indeed cylons, they're in perfect positions next to those of authority.
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Talk about anticlimatic - JEEZ! Whadda waste? No punch at all like last season or the one before that. We're being set up here and the whole reveal, RDM, is BS. The Starbuck bit is no surprise and the whole ragtag and Cylon fleet's grouping up to go to Earth is a tough shot to down. C'mon, man. Running down some Hendrix and trying to spin a little Apocalypse Now into it is annoying. This is where I'd expect to see Dirk Benidict pop in as the real Starbuck and tell everyone he's Kara's dad - and a Cylon. Now that would've been something.
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So far, we've only been introduced to six cylon skinjobs. Right? Am I forgetting one. Three male, three female (doral, leo, the priest; six, boomer, de'ana). Who's the seventh of the known skinjobs, since we're trying to figure out the final five? R.J.
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I've been a fan of BSG since it began, and have loved it until about halfway through this season, when... it simply ceased to interest me anymore. I agree with the observation made by an earlier poster that the show has been great on a "micro" (per episode) level this season, but on a "macro" (season arc) level, it's fallen down. I think the New Caprica stuff should've gone on for at least 6 episodes; the filler ones cut out, and RDM and Co. REALLY need to put their heads together and figure out a season-long final arc for BSG. (It's pretty scary when RDM has flat-out admitted that they're making it up as they go along.) I hate to say it, but as of the last few episodes, I've finally gotten really bored with the show – and this episode was a major snoozer, to me. A season ending science-fiction show cliffhanger that spends 45 minutes as a badly-written, overacted, legally ridiculous COURTROOM drama? Come on -- they can do better than that.
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The black doctor. He's the seventh skinjob. damn, that was bugging me. R.J.
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I concur with those who suspect that these 4 tonight are not cylons, at least not in the way we know cylons. I certainly don't think they are part of the final five.Starbuck could well be one of the five, I suppose, but I suspect she plays a different role.Remember that somewhere RDM said this episode will raise the question: "what does it mean, to 'be a cylon'"So, because these 4 heard music, THEY now THINK they are cylons.... does not mean they are correct.Loved the Trial, loved the lawyer walking away without his cane, loved the way Tigh responded when the ship came under attack, loved the music, and loved that it was Lee who was found by Starbuck (not him finding her), and the way her "viper" seemed to fly like no other viper....
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That at some point in BSG's run, Apollo would be a lawyer and Starbuck would be dead... I probably would have said you were crazy and I'd never watch "that" version of BSG... but i cant wait til 2008.. bring on the Shield!
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Two versions of the promos were in play, making a net 4 claims:One will Die: Starbuck [check]One will discover they are a cylon: Four did tonight, Starbuck possibly did, too [check]One will fulfill their destiny: Starbuck did (as the one who was not really Leoben was helping her to do) [check]One will find Earth: Starbuck, again [check]
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Really cool theory! And that would totally jive with TOS story...except it was Apollo who was killed by Count Iblis and the light beings intervened. Could it be the "unrevealed third party" that was one of the possible answers on the trivia thingy refers to an actual plotline? What was the answer to that trivia question? Anyone? Bueller?Is Kara acended, or just renewed like in the original? In the original, when they came to in the light ships, their uniforms where all white. Anyone notice anything strange about Kara's ship? Garb?
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...that a Third Party is influencing events for both the humans and cylons.I just pray that there will be NO DIRKLON FACELON stuntcasting.So Say Me All.
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I don't think she's a cylon, although I always thought Six looked like a young Helen. But Tigh said "what about Helen?" on that moment of clarity when they realize they're cylons. Still, I went into the episode thinking "it'll be the 4 guys who can hear the music, plus Starbuck, just because". And what's with the fracking spoilers last week on the "scenes from the next episode" thing? Last week they only showed Tigh, Anders and the hot indian chick could hear the music. And then they put the Chief saying "we're all cylons" on the clip at the end, WTF?
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Yeah... You read that right!
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...but I told you so! I KNEW Starbuck wasn't dead. (and without any spoilers!) And I figured the phantom music was a "Manchurian Candidate" trigger for SOMETHING. (I was actually betting on brainwashing BY the Cylons, not that they'd actually BE Cylons, though) I laughed aloud when Tigh sang the first chorus of the song, and later he speaks a line of the song to Adama: "There's too much confusion." (did anyone else use lyrics to the song?) And it seems I was finally proven right about the timeline. (Thank you, Mr. Bob Dylan!) My only real question: Who is the last Cylon? (There IS still one more, right?) Awesome episode with a good pay-off. Can't wait for next season and all 22 episodes!
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"...who feel that life is but a joke"
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but that song with those lyrics are a heads up that things ar not what they seem. Another clue that I haven't seen mentioned here yet: Starbuck's Viper was noticably brighter than the standard issue model, if not pure white. But her helmet was black. White is whats on the outside; black is whats underneath. Maybe I'm reading into the visuals too much, but I think "Starbuck" is not what she seems.
If I follow the parallels with the original show to their conclusion, some things I come up with are:
In the original, there was not only a war between the Humans and Cylons, but a 'war in the heavens'between the "Beings of Light" and whomever Count Iblis represented. It was also implied that the "Beings of Light" were directing the fate of both the humans and the Cylons. Iblis also had his own influence.
I'll bet that the New Starbuck will turn out to have a role similar to count Iblis.
On a side note it would be cool to see some other human colonies like the Eastern Alliance form the original series.
Guess we'll just have to wait ...
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When the Xena-bot saw the final five she told the one that she was sorry. If it was Tigh she could have been saying she was sorry for putting out his eye. The others I have no idea about... Why would the cylons pick a professional sports player to be one of their models, all of the others had some kind of importance, but him?
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When to go to that exact location at that exact time? Like one of them said, a switch went off. I believe that is what one calls a sleeper agent. For me this is up there with one of the best episodes of television ever. Damn, now that Tigh is a Cylon, I wonder how he feels about hating what he is. I wonder if he'll kill himself only to wake up in a Cylon incubator complete with two eyes? They HAVE to be Cylons. What would have been the point of killing Billy off and introducing a new character like that? It makes a lot of sense. The Chief's visions before he beat the SHIT out of his wife while still in his sleep. I always wondered if they would somehow elaborate on that in some way. BSG is like a crack fix, I need it.
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I think something happened on New Caprica. I think that these four are not Cylons.
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Can't find 'em in the archives.
Resume scheduled prog. -
this episode = lol. pure cheese and crackers. im just stunned with the wtf? what a waste BSG is... they kill Starbuck and 3 episodes later she is alive? they put Baltar on trial for 3 episodes, and then some last minute bizzaro law lets Lee give a closing argument on the stand that gets him off the hook? omg... then all of a sudden that music, i was thinking All Along the Watchtower? wtf? so some people say here its Earth transmissions... umm ok. what about TV? anyways... the 4 cylons... stink! cheap! then the final shot was all 60's hilarious. it would be cool, if it was not completely out of character for the show which yet again takes several episodes of material and abruptly changes its mind... BOMB!
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1) Only Lee saw her. 2) She was in her Viper, which we clearly saw destroyed, but, like Starbuck, the Viper returned.
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I hope somebody cuts it into a music video. I hope the last season gets more action in it. I am so tired of the drama. We need more season 1 action.
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Other than De'Anna, which other cylon models have been boxed? I seem to remember some cylon saying the original 5 had been boxed. Is that true? If so, then we should speculate on why they were boxed. What unseemly behavior led to this? maybe the boxed 5 were working w/the humans? and maybe they set up "backups" spread throughout the colonies that could function on their own, separate from the Cylon consciousness? maybe the only way to set up a backup is to make it think it's completely human? years later, those backups wake up and find they're living the lives of tigh, anders, etc. Or perhaps the "backup" for those 5 boxed cylon models is in a beacon on the way to earth, and when 5 suitable carriers show up, the consciousnesses of the 5 download into these carriers. Perhaps these carriers' bloodlines were genetically altered by the 5 in the past so that they'd be able to receive the broadcasts at some point in the future. And perhaps the "music" was actually what a consciousness download sounds like to one of these genetically conditioned humans?
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Tigh is too old. The Chief has a child. If they're Cylons then everything we know about the Cylon wars is wrong and the whole Hera storyline is pointless. Seems pretty random and inconsistent. Enjoyed the episode though.
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I sincerely hope that the Starbuck that Lee saw was not In-Head, but she very well could be. Did anyone else see the contact on DRADAS or was it just him? I can't remember. If she IS only in-head, who are these in-head beings? I frakking NEED this version of the song. Too bad the soudtrack for season 3 won't be out until June (according to wikipedia), but I noticed on the season 2 soundtrack there is a song called "Black Market" with a very similar flavor used for the cover of "All Along the Watchtower".
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yea fucktard, of course it was the same music
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Maybe Moore is pulling a Manchurian candidate storyline. It is established Tigh was tortured by the Cylons at New Caprica, maybe it will be revealed that the other three were tortured as well, and programmed to believe they are Cylons and to carry out a mission involving Athena and Roslyn.
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When it leaked that one would find out s/he is a cylon, that was true. It was Roslin. Revealed as Cylon by both sharing the Hera dream and by blacking out when they reached the nebula. It's clear she either was a Cylon from the get go, or has "become" cylon by getting infused with Cylon blood (a plotline sure to expanded to "cure" her cancer again). As for the other four, I don't think they are cylons. They are something different. Maybe the "final five" aren't truly cylons, but are just guiding the cylons towards some objective.
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I gave an underling an out of town work assignment for today because I didn't feel like flying. She gets to the airport and is waiting to board the plan, and Edward James Olmos plops down next to her, wearing a Battlestar Galactica crew jacket. She immediately called me to gloat, knowing this is one of my favorite shows. Oh well ... probably better that I didn't meet him. I always feel like a dork bothering some "celebrity" in public.
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The one frame of reference I have yet to see discussed originates from Isaac Asimov's Foundation series. Toward the end of the second trilogy, it's revealed that robots have been around but well hidden, with their function being to see the survival of humanity. Like all Asimov's robots, their function has been to serve humanity and to support those who lead. I don't think its a coincidence that four identified, in addition to being leaders in the resistance, are closely linked to the characters whose actions have resulted in the most consequences: Adama (his XO is Tigh), Apollo and the pilots (their deck chief is Tyrol), Starbuck (Anders, who inspired her to return to Caprica) and Roslin (Tory, her chief of staff).
Tigh to Adama: You can count on me.
Tory to Roslin: I'm here if you need me, Madame President. -
Ok, straight from Bear McCreary's blog (the composer for BSG's soundtrack and the cover of "All Along the Watchtower). Check out the blog here: http://tinyurl.com/2swfqt
"While the song is among the best Bob Dylan ever wrote, Jimi Hendrix's 1968 version is so famous and iconic that many people simply assume he wrote it. In fact, All Along the Watchtower is among the most frequently covered pop songs in history. So, you can imagine my surprise when I learned that not only would it be included in the season finale, but it was incorporated directly into the script."
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"I happened to catch Ron Moore in the hallway at Universal and, in a brief conversation, got everything I needed to know. I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any "Earthly" versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own."
Thanks to the discussion at the scifi.com boards who put me on to his website!
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For fun, I checked to see what the closest nebula to Earth is. It's the Helix Nebula, 650 light years away. And I don't know if it means anything at all but it looks suspiciously familiar: http://www.seasky.org/stuff/assets/wallpaper_sky/HelixNebula_1280.jpg
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Read it for yourselves, an interview with Ron Moore:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm -
http://tinyurl.com/3yv6o3
I hate that aintitcool puts spaces in long url's. -
...decided on these 4 cylons towards the end of this season. So I guess it doesn't just SEEM like it was a last minute thrown-together idea...
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As long as they make it work, I have no problems with the choice to make them Cylons. He says it will be explained next year...
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This what killed X-Files . . . this is what frakked up The Matrix. Hit us with the big reveal, but there isn't a bigger better reveal. last season smoked all competition, but after listening to one of his latest 2hr editing room podcasts its clear that this show has an agenda, but its stretching it to get there with filler episodes and character building. This one lacked all punch and was way too obvious, No left field here at all.
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The thing everyone seems to be overlooking is this line:
"It's like a song from...childhood."
Yes, it's a song emitting from Earth. But it's a song they heard from childhood (or should I say "childhood").
I'm perfectly resolved to the possibility that NOTHING in the BSG universe is as it appears. That the entire mission that was set in motion was perpetrated by human beings ON EARTH. That the entire exercise was a Rapa Nui. That the people (and cylons) involved are unwitting pawns in a grander conspiracy. That hundreds of thousands of people (and machines) have been either been lied to or brainwashed, then re-activated as "sleeper agents" to do the bidding of their masters.
Ultimately it won't come down to human versus cylon, it will come down to slave versus master, and members of both human and mechanical races will choose their side based not on breeding but upon free will.
I predict that we will soon visit Earth either in a modern day setting (or at least slightly in the future). And just try for a moment to see it from EARTH'S perspective.
Baltar getting off that ship, wearing that hooded robe, flanked by adoring disciples. Imagine the mass hysteria. Imagine the potential for the powers that be on earth to take advantage of that. To use the arrival of these visitors from "the Heavens" to enslave their own people, to take away their rights in order to "protect them."
Last night's ep was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
RO'S
LostColonyEntertainment.com
myspace.com/lostcolony -
I was even supportive of the 1 year jump at the end of season 2. But having these four being cylons just seems to me like one of those stupid "oh, so Nina was the mole in CTU!" from 24. I can just imagine them picking names out of a hat..."oh..shit...who put Tigh's name in the hat?!?! Wasn't he alive during the first Cylon War and pretty much right after the Cylons were invented? Oh well, we'll explain it next season, let's just get this cliffhanger written already! What's that on the radio...All Along the Watchtower? Hell, throw that in the script, too!"
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Was this where the music was coming from? Don't forget that music has the ominous sound of the Cylon eye buzz. When Tyrol said something about the switch being flipped in his head and he just knew . . . Manchurian. Too tight a plan for two of the four in that room to have gotten where they are unless RDM will expect the viewers will just let that go.
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It's no different from the vision Baltar had on Kobol. So the only way you can call that proof is if you believe Baltar is also a Cylon.
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Forgive me if these theories have already been laid out, but I didn't have time to read everything up to here.
About the 4: They're not Cylons. They're actually heralds for Earth. Hypothetically let's say the 13th Colony has always known that the other 12 would seek them out one day (as evidenced by the scripture and the beacon they've already found). As advanced as they seem to have been, maybe they left genetic markers in certain families of the other 12 colony members. Those have trickled down through the generations and we set to activate when those herald got close enough to a signal emitted from Earth. Hell, they're picking it up on the radio and it's being amplified throughout the ship like a weak signal even. The four aren't Cylons, the Chief just suggests that because that's the most plausible conclusion for them all hearing the same thing. At least, those were my initial thoughts.
Now onto Roslin. She's had Cylon blood injected into here. That's the reason she's sharing the same dream as Athena, Caprica 6 AND Hera. Whatever is causing the shared dream with the 3 of them is in the blood and hence she's getting it as well. -
Anybody got a light?
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It's been confirmed that the 4 are indeed cylons.
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I remember when Katee Sackhoff "confirmed" she was no longer with the show either. And when RDM "confirmed" that she was indeed dead. I take all confirmations by cast and crew as red herrings until the show gives me enough proof to say otherwise.
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Man I wish I thought of that.
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the signal is coming from Earth itself. A radio signal. Admittedly, that wouldn't explain why only four ppl can hear it (in their heads), and why it's just one song, and why the four can remember it as if it were something "from childhood." And, 2008 is way too far away. I'm going to have to find a way to travel near the speed of light. They crammed so much into the hour, it reminded me of the last flight of the Pegasus...in a good way.
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so those guys are all cylons eh? all this has happened before and will happen again.
moore says these cylons are fundamentally different, perhaps it is because they have free will, or perhaps it is because they cannot be replaced/ downloaded. anyhow, hopefully al answers will appear next season and the show gets rapped up nicely, without all that filler crap. -
I think Arthur Clarke wrote that science sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic to less developed people. I think an assumption being made here is that the technology moving the music and other events is equivalent to what we see on Galactica. It needn't be so. Earth (or whoever the third party is) is not necessarily bound by the speed of light when transmitting messages. With Kara's return after seemingly being blown up, I think all technological possibilities are on the table.
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Weren't Tigh and Chief Tyrol amongst the entire Galactica crew that got tested in season one? It clearly worked with Boomer. I am very disappointed that not only does it seem they are making the story up as they go along, Ron Moore as much as confirmed it. His quote about coming up with the four Cylons: "It was something I came up with this season as I worked toward the finale. The conceptual framework in which these guys are Cylons, it all sort of works once we laid down their individual back stories." Yeah, except you have to throw out some of the basic guidlelines they had given us to work with. For example, even though Hera is so special because she is the only human/Cylon offspring, throw that rule out because the Chief has a kid too. Forget that Tigh fought the toasters when that is all they were, presumably decades before skin jobs came into being. And while having "sleepers" established on board military craft makes sense, why would you have a "sleeper star triad player" who got left behind on Caprica originally? And isn't Tory in a position of influence only because Billy got killed by a random act? While I agree that the whole "this has all happened before" angle and the earlier suggestion that people will have to redefine what a Cylon is will (hopefully) explain this all away, it still seems pretty cheesy right now. I'm hoping that the confirmation is a red herring in the same vein as Katee Sackhoff's "confirmation" she was done with the show.
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I still maintain that Heroes is NOT good...just better than average.
Lost unfortunately swings between below average and average. I don't schedule time to watch it anymore and catch only the occasional episode on ABC's website.
Anyway, damn good BSG tonight. -
If you don't remember, Baltar "fixed" the device to show that everyone was human.
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and the white outlines were indeed the reveal - none of the regluar characters on the show are cylons - those white outlines were the reveal.
the music who knows.... -
The four WEREN'T cylons UNTIL they heard the music and maybe the Final Five were unknown because they didn't exist yet...
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Sorry if this is posted above somewhere..
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm -
The Four ARE "fundamentally different" Cylons, but Cylons nonetheless. Just accept it. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm
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I'd bet money on it.The way her mom was self-destructively smoking and constantly abusing little Kara while reminding her "You're different. You're special." was a dead giveaway.Momma Thrace was raped by a toaster. Bank on it.
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this is the key--we all KNEW these final five had to be somehow different, since the 7 did not know who they were, and did not recognize them on sight as cylons.Since they are FDcylons, the door is open for us to find out many things to be true about them that are not possible for the other models we think we understand so well.And, whew, my Hybrid Theory will stand until next season!! (and note, the Hybrids on the basestars are also very different from the other cylons.... hmmmm..... :~)
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...the rest of the Cylons don't know who "the five" are.
So what NetProphet just said: "For example, even though Hera is so special because she is the only human/Cylon offspring, throw that rule out because the Chief has a kid too" isn't an issue, necessarily. Hera is "special" to them because they don't know Tyrol is a Cylon. Once they figure it out, obviously his baby will assume a great importance to them, not least because he is a special model cylon.
I think the other issues aren't necessarily issues, because their premises are based on assumptions which we can't quite take to the bank, e.g., we don't really know precisely when the Cylons came up with skin jobs, and anyway a lot of the rules may be out the window with "the five" anyway. -
The whole series has been a recycling of ideas from TOS. What Starbuck found was Terra. A planet that some of the travelers to earth settled while the rest continued on to earth.
Remember Kara is a Frak up.
Bring on the Space Nazis. -
The reason that the Cylon detector would not have worked on Tyrol, Tigh, et al, is because as RDM said, they are fundamentally different than the other seven, so it's possible that which Baltar's detector was looking for is not present in the final five. While I'm certainly not the biggest fan of "making it up as we go along", I think that for the most part things have fit together rather well, and only once the series is over will we really be able to see what truly didn't fit.
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In which case he lied to Tyrol.
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The Cylon detector was not a truth machine. It identified a physical property assocatied with a very small sample of known Cylons, who are so similar to humans it may be there are more obvious differences among individual humans than there are between humans and Cylons as groups. Obviously the newly revealed Cylons don't have what the Cylon detector was designed to look for.
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2112 overture, you punk kids.
The Toaster War was about 40 years ago, and Tigh fought in them. If Tigh has been a cylon all that time, it strongly implies that the skinjobs have been around since then. Which in turn would imply that the directed the war in the first place, picking a fight to whatever end.
Or it could be that Tigh died in custody and was replaced with a skinjob.
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Tritium: "Jump" "Shark Nebula". Come on, Mister E made a funny and a good one at that! Looks like we could use a primer on humor as well as science on the board.
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and get that eye fixed!
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The Final Five are the ones that created the path to Earth, and then went into Sleeper Mode until a time of their designation?
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Personally, I loved this episode. One little scene pops into my mind though.
Kara's ship looks like it blew up in Maelstrom. Chunks and pieces everywhere. If she was carried away by some kind of freak wormhole, I can just see the following;
A nice empty field on earth. It's twilight, some cows mooing in the background, a light, a small explosive cloud appears say 10 feet above the ground, out comes Kara bouncing on her butt several times going FRAK!...........FRAK!.....FRAK...FRAKFRAKFRAKFRAKFRAK!!!!
Then the challenge of acquiring a new ship.
If we're to believe the pictures, and Kara that she's been to earth, then some kind of wormhole had to be responsible and since Vipers aren't capable of FTL, a wormhole had to bring her back.
Perhaps a chunk of that music traveled with her. Could explain why it got stronger as the fleet approached the nebula. Perhaps the anomaly that brought Kara back was also responsible for the power loss in the fleet. Notice the Cylons weren't attacking, perhaps the power loss took their ships out too.
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Are also of the final five.
But, they probably are.
My other random thoughts after sleeping on it:
1. Roslin = Human. Plugged into the dream because of the transfusion.
2. Starbuck is not the same Starbuck. She's ascendant somehow. Dead and reborn.
3. Her viper was defintely different.
4. Baltar is a Cyclon.
5. The presidents aide is pretty hot, even if she is a skinjob. -
New space scouts and cylons run amuck
on Halloween. -
At the risk of being an annoying nobody, I'm going to repeat myself from last night.
Alien languages on Sci-fi shows are often translated idiomatically. Why can't music be translated idiomatically too? Maybe instead of it being "Watchtower" it is a song with similar themes and emotional tones. BTW, if it really is "Watchtower," that means the four of them can somehow understand 20th century English. -
"No one said that the four revealed are also of the final five." Actually Ron moore says explicitly that in the inetrview linked to above: "These are four of the final five, which puts them in a separate category from everybody else."
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...At least most of the time.
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The one question no one seems to be asking is "What's under the bulkhead?" That's what drew the four to that room. They're about to open it up when the cylon fleet attacks.
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You're right. I reread -- the implication is no so much an implication as fact.
So, I backtrack -- Like I said, I mostly understand English. :-p -
I guess that doesn't apply the Cylon.20's either. I realize in a made up universe the creators can do whatever they want. For me, however, it seems to cheapen what you've already done by retro-fitting things and coming up with the "funadmentally different" explanation. Again, the statement from Ron Moore is that he spent the last season figuring out that these four would be Cylons. So, through the mini-series, seasons one and two, and maybe even through the whole New Caprica thing, these individuals were just ordinary humans. Now we're left with the fact that they are fundamentally different Cylons because the known rules don't fit them. Does this include tossing out the principle that they are not based on existing humans, but are archetypal models? That was one of the first rules Moore gave us when people wondered if Cylon replacements could assume roles of known humans. Otherwise, these models apparently come into being as youngsters, with Tyrol adopted into the a family of priests as a child. Not sure, but I think he even talked about having siblings. Even if that was just made up "cover story", official cannon has him entering the fleet at 18, which he has clearly matured from. Tigh has aged before Adama's eyes. Unlike the other seven, who appear to never age, this is an enmormous fundamental difference. Why then even bother with the "there are 12 Cylon models" business, when it is really "there are seven of one kind, and five of another." It feels like a cop out to me, but from a certain point of view, anything is explainable.
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She found earth. You can see frakkin North America!
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Mar 26, 2007 2:04:30 PM CDT
Does anyone have link to the pic of the final five...
by gerald mcboingboing
...that was on the net a week or two ago?
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That's the question.
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Dennis Hopper as Count Iblis; Joe Morton as John, the Edward Mulhare character.
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Four plus Starbuck equals five. But it's not true. They are not Cylons, they are just being affected by the noise, that's all. What's really going on is an appearance of the "Ship Of Lights." When Starbuck & Apollo return to Galactica, they will be dressed all in white (or at least spiritually enlightened)....
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...and rewatching the last five minutes...I'm more fine with the episode.I still want to know what it means to be a 'final five,' and why all of them happened to be on Galactica.
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http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/4/42/Final_Five.jpg
(minus the spaces in the url of course)
The guy in the middle looks like same, but the other 4 don't look familiar. Yet Ron Moore confirmed the four revealed are indeed of the final five. So I suppose they just cast extras to get this shot finished...? -
days to formulate a comprehensive theory.
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"Or it could be that Tigh died in custody and was replaced with a skinjob."
Totally Philip K. Dick. -
...until I read that RDM article. This show is fucking retarded. They just pulled this out of their asses halfway through the season and next season will be about trying to make it fit. There is no longer any point in trying to analyze this show. BSG makes Lost look like Babylon 5, by comparison (in terms of story arc). And if that other post by turketron is true, and the music was just pulled out of the "ethereal mix," then this is the most retarded show in history. I'm pretty invested at this point, and I'm guessing there's only one more season anyway, so I'll probably finish it out, but I really miss the days when this was "the best show on TV." RDM, you sir are a hack. DS9 was an anomaly. BSG, season 3, makes baby Jesus cry.
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this is from Wikipedia for All Along Ther Watchtower:
The melody from this song haunts several Battlestar Galactica characters throughout the final two episodes of the television show's third season. An Indian themed cover version of the song is heard during the last minute of the last episode. It was composed by Bear McCreary with his brother Brendan, aka Bt4, on vocals and former Oingo Boingo guitarist Steve Bartek playing various guitars and sitars.[5] -
didn't anyone find it odd that in 6's dream, she saw the final five in red hoods, then the last we see of baltar, his groupies are throwing a red blanket over his head? probably nothing.... OR IS IT?!?!?!!
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Damn you Michael Bay
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Dont know what to think. Just bring the BSG ASAP!!!!!!!
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Setting aside any debate about whether these four are, or should be, Cylons, I'm also wondering about the significance of the song. Dylan apparently wrote "All Along the Watchtower" during a biblical phase, and the apocalyptic imagery has been related to the Book of Revelations. While the song only mentions two riders, they could be construed as the first two of the four riders of the Apocalypse, Pestilence and War. There are, of course, Famine and Death that follow in Revelations. So do these four new "fundamentally different" Cylons relate to the Four Horsemen? In Revelations, the four are set at odds with a fifth rider who is last to be revealed - Christ. I'm probably reading too much into it, and should just give up trying to make any sense out of this show.
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Laura Roslin. She is linked with Hera, Six and Sharon.
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drive that Jesus imagery home.
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so incredibly hot, moreso with her Canadian accent?
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Revelation, not Revelations. Actually, not insignificant. Revelations sound like a series of facts that are found out; Revelation is the whole process, the whole thing.
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Never said I was a biblical scholar or that I'd even been to Church in the past 20 years. Now beyond being picky, since you apparently are familiar with the material, do you have anything to say about the subject?
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I said DOES ANYBODY HAVE A FRAKKIN LIGHT! PEOPLE ARE DYING DOWN HERE AND I NEED TO BOGART ONE!
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Dylan, too!
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...by Queen. Since people are nominating other songs, that'd be my vote. Google that title to get the lyrics. Anyway, a few thoughts: since Bill Adama's memory of Tigh predates the humanoid Cylons, Tigh's either not a humanoid Cylon, or Adama is (and so his memory is fake). They kept borrowing from the original series and even Galactica 1980 in a very abstract way, so I suggest that Kara Thrace is basically this series' Doctor Zee/Zed. Seriously. The kid was a child of the original Starbuck and some sort of goddess being (like the beings of light) from the "Return of Starbuck" episode. Kara was probably similarly created, with her mother being the human parent. The Final Five were recreations of the original priests, also guided by these beings. The other four may have been similarly created, and they started hearing the music because Starbuck heard it. Then the Cylons' evolution was guided by these beings too, which makes the Five Cylons only in that they've been messed with by these beings. (I'm starting to think this sounds a little Vorlon-like.)
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oh well, who da fifth?
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Or when Kara "appeared" to Lee, her voice sounded normal, like she was standing right beside him. His voice sounded like it was being transmitted through his Viper's Comm-system but not hers.
Tyrol's "We're all Cylons" comment had me thinking he believed the whole fleet (human race?) to be Cylon after all, but after reading Moore's interview, I guess not. I was wondering why so few people had mentioned the earlier hint that this episode would make you question "What is a Cylon", but Moore's "Fundamentally different" comment kinda' brings it back to the forefront. I can buy the Cylon detector not working, and even that there was a force at work to pull The Chief and Boomer apart (no good in trying to have two skinjobs mate), and to get Billy out of Tory's way, but I still have a problem with 40 years of Tigh/Adama history. -
...the whole "human race" of the colonies were the "cylons" of Kobal, and that they went to colonize their own solar system just like this generation's cylons. This I think is the reason why they always stress the line "all of this has happened before and will happen again" from their scripture.
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The truth is that Tigh should have realized in a second the history problem...that he was alive when the Cylons were still just "toasters." The fact that this wasn't the first thing he said makes this whole decision the most unrealistic character twist on the show so far.
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..All Along the Watchtower? I mean, they were actually saying the lyrics. So....what does this do to the timeline exactly? It's like all of the theories just went off a cliff in a 20 second scene.
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Sometimes I just hate threads, but I've got to put my two cents in (even though I know no one is going to bother reading it)...
Why do all you frakheads have a problem with the Final Five being "fundamentally different" as a cop-out? Ever since we found out about the Five, everything we've learned about them has pointed pretty clearly at this. (In fact, I don't think they can even resurrect -- the other models would have seen them on a resurrection ship.)
Also, only one of you on this whole thread has said anything about going to Bear McCreary's blog for the skinny on "Watchtower" (scroll to the bottom of http://www.bearmccreary.com - great reading about the amazing music in general!). Bear says:
"I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any "Earthly" versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own."
I personally loved the arrangement. It rocked so hard and I'm sure Dylan would've loved it too.
Anyway, as far as all the complaints with RDM et al. figuring out in the middle of the season who the Five would be...I think the revalation fits the "Four" really well, even with the apparent inconsistencies (most notably, Tigh). RDM says they've got a plan, so let's hope for the best there. I'm just plain excited to see how Tigh's character and his relationships will develop from here!
On a final note, don't bitch about the way it ended with Starbuck showing up. You all totally knew she was going to show up in the last scene and say exactly what she said. The whole last half of the season - sans the more minor episodes - was setting up for that exact moment to happen exactly as it did.
Actually, I think it was a pretty comforting way to cliffhang the series for 9 months. -
I guess I needed to explicitly put in the line breaks in html...lame comment form...testing 1 2 3
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And i love BSG!! probably more than any show on TV...but yeah, maybe if they had 5 minutes of actual battle or something between the vipers and cylon raiders, or something...but this was just kinda lame, and really made no damn sense. So they all hear jimmy hendrix music....and this is supposed to mean they are cylons? umm...ok. I just hope the season premier sheds some light on some of the weirdness that was Season 3
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Universal HD's BSG schedule is only up to Unfinished Business, which aired this past Saturday. So that's 11 weeks of BSG greatness in HD to come. After that, you're on yer own. :(
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Sometimes I just hate threads, but I've got to put my two cents in (even though I know no one is going to bother reading it)...
Why do all you frakheads have a problem with the Final Five being
"fundamentally different" as a cop-out? Ever since we found out about the Five, everything we've learned about them has pointed pretty clearly at this. (In fact, I don't think they can even resurrect -- the other models would have seen them on a resurrection ship.)
Also, only one of you on this whole thread has said anything about
going to Bear McCreary's blog for the skinny on "Watchtower" (scroll
to the bottom of http://www.bearmccreary.com - great reading about the amazing music in general!). Bear says:
"I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any "Earthly" versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own."
I personally loved the arrangement. It rocked so hard and I'm sure
Dylan would've loved it too. PS - Why the frak do you all insist that it's some kind of Earth transmission anyway? That would be (please pardon the usage) really gay.
Anyway, as far as all the complaints with RDM et al. figuring out in the middle of the season who the Five would be...I think the
revalation fits the "Four" really well, even with the apparent
inconsistencies (most notably, Tigh). RDM says they've got a plan, so let's hope for the best there. I'm just plain excited to see how Tigh's character and his relationships will develop from here!
On a final note, don't bitch about the way it ended with Starbuck
showing up. You all totally knew she was going to show up in the last scene and say exactly what she said. The whole last half of the
season - sans the more minor episodes - was setting up for that exact moment to happen exactly as it did.
Actually, I think it was a pretty comforting way to cliffhang the
series for 9 months. -
...it's NOT a Hendrix song. "All Along the Watchtower" was written by Bob Dylan.Everyone got that?Bob Dylan.And he's a Cylon.
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Tigh DID say something to the effect that he's been part of the colonial fleet for over 40 years, which infers that he's wondering how it's possible. Just because he's not laying it all out there like "How is it possible that I am a cylon when I have been best friends with Adama for years and the timeline just doesn't make sense." doesn't mean he's not thinking it. If I found out I was a robot, I'd be pretty frakkin confused myself. Besides, his loyalties at this point still lie with Galactica and he'll deal with the implications of his revelation later.
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...And the Fonz Began to howl as he Jumped the Shark.
Battlestar "Everyone is actually a Cylon" Galactica. Yule Love It! -
Remember when Sharon found out she was a Cylon, she was also confused because she remembered her childhood, growing up and her parents. Perhaps, like Sharon, there was a real Tigh that was replaced by a Cylon and his memories transfered over.
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I seriously wonder if some of you guys even pay attention to the show...
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we were given by Moore and company was that the skin jobs were not modeled after any existing humans. Thus, there was no pre-existing Sharon Valerii. Any memories she had were manufactuured and implanted when she was placed into deep cover. So, again, if these new Cylons replaced existing humans, it would be a departure from what we have been previously told.
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Is everyone deaf??
The First Final Five Rule: "fundamentally different"
We basically don't know anything about the way the Five work or what their deal is. Previous Cylon rules need not apply. Everything's up in the air.
I think this was a great move for the story, not just "jumping the shark." Just wait a few months to see what story they have to tell! -
Anyone know (guess) why we kispped the opening credits for the past few weeks?
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Can people please stop bitching about writers "making things up as they go along" and as it were some sort of penetrating and meaningful analysis? It's almost as bad as saying something is "bad writing" without clarifying any further.What do you think writing a story is? Whether they make it up beforehand, or during, or cut an episode differently in post, they're still ALWAYS making it up, and to an extent, they will ALWAYS reach a point in the story that things will evolve beyond the original vision and something will be made up, be it a change a writer makes in his plotting out a story or the change BSG has made. Shit, this is a long book with many chapters, you don't think writers have changed things in books because they surprise themselves at how things have turned out?How many great shows do you think have had an ironclad plan from day one till the season finale? You don't things ever change, like when they discover an actor has this ability or that?Initially, Tyrol didn't have the role he turned out to assume. Cally was never supposed to be anything. Helo was supposed to be left on Caprica. Things freaking change.Trust me, anyone familiar with the creative process will tell you it's always in flux, that if you always stuck to an ironclad 5-season plan from day one with unassailable character bios and no room for improvisation (oh, how you guys must hate improv, IT'S ALL MADE UP AS THEY GO ALONG!), you wouldn't make it to a season 5.Criticize the show all you want, that's fine. Just please stop saying, "Oh no! They're making it up as they go!" (Looking at you, certain Lost fans.) It's an essential part of any (successful) creative process, so to me, it's like bitching, "Shit! They wrote this book on paper!"
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I believe RDM said in his podcast for last week that they wanted the extra time for the episodes themselves, and that he displayed some level of shock that he got away with it.Though he really overplayed the whole starbuck death thing in the podcast for that episode that i'm not sure i'll ever be able to rely on his assertions in that medium again. I understand the need for secrecy, but I'd have preferred he either be less adamant about it or skirt the subject entirely. Not like anyone is peppering him with questions during the podcast. Shit, just air some blank air and say it was cut out for legal reasons.
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I didn't want anything to do with Lost when I heard they were making it up as they went along... now that I know BSG is doing it, too, I feel betrayed. Very betrayed. However, I'll set that aside and keep watching because it's still a good ride, and I've got a lot of confidence that there will be more shocking and awing moments in 'aught-eight.
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if you want to, but who made you God of the talkback that I have to listen to you? Quite frankly, I have felt that the series has been great up until the last few episodes, but the lame courtroom drama followed up with this new "twist" has left me less than thrilled. AND WHY CAN'T I OR ANYONE ELSE THAT WANTS TO VOICE THEIR OPINION ABOUT IT? Your ID indicates that you came on just to try shoot down the "haters". Well I guess if I complain about about Ewoks I'm a Star Wars hater. Excuse me for thinking the talkback was someplace I could freely put forth my reasons why I don't like something I feel cheapens the show. I think my posts have been pretty well reasoned out, certainly more so than whining "is everyone deaf" because they happen to disagree with you. If you put aside your blind devotion for a second you might see a valid point or two. And I will close with this; figuring out who the four were after already knowing you were going to reveal them at the season's end is somewhat lazy writing. Here you have built up an expectation that these identities are important. The reality is that they could have been anyone you chose at the last second, and the only thing important about them is that they satisfied the need to fill out four white robes.
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I loved Tigh's and Anders' reaction to realizing that they are Cylons (in which we haven't learned what being one of the Final Five means- obvi its different than just a regular Cylon). They really sold it, especially Tigh when he talks about "the 2 wars he's been in, his wife, torture, all for what??" I am sure we will learn about how could the main resistant fighters be Cylons, Tigh's aging, etc. If they lay the groundwork this new shocking development can continue to pay-off huge. I am curious to see the connection b/w the nebula blackout, the final five trigger that went off and Starbuck.
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I wish everyone would read Bear McCreary's blog mentioned above about All Along the Watchtower not necessarily meaning the timeline for Earth is the 1960's etc.
This may be obvious but I'm willing to bet the song was used for the meaning. Notice they didn't hear the song well until they got closer to the Nebula. "The Watchtower" is the nebula. It's not a coincidence all these events happened when they did. We've known since the 7th episode in Season 2 that the Nebula was extremely important in being a "light house" on the way to earth, but to the others (beings of light, pre-cylons, 13th colony, whoever they are) it is their Watchtower to for those who come..... interpret the other lyrics as you will..... -
its that it is just plain boring lately...no matter how complex they try to make it. Think the Matrix sequels...complex, all kinds of shit to comprehend and try to understand, but in the end, just didnt work!! and there you have season 3
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Okay, so I was being pretty bitchy earlier blowing off some unrelated steam. Apologies. The "deaf" bit wasn't about people listening to me, but more about my feelings that there are a lot of people who just missed whole chunks of important dialogue. My bad for not explaining that.
As for picking the four cylons, I don't think they could've picked a better four based on what their characters will have to go through in the coming season, so it's much more than about filling robes. The whole show is about watching these characters struggle. Dee would be a boring pick. Hot Dog would be boring. Gaeda, maybe not so boring, but Tigh? Not THAT'S interesting! Sure, they've got a lot of back-pedaling to do with Tigh's history and the importance of Tyrol and Cally's baby, but I don't think that it cheapens the writing to have not known from the very beginning who it would be. I wouldn't just assume the writers were being lazy, but couldn't it be just as likely (if not more) that the writers have always had this general plan in mind but only settled on who the four would be recently based on the direction the characters were headed? If this is the case, they've probably had some sort of plan for explaining the tricky characters like Tigh.
Like So-Crates points out, the whole process is really organic and would probably suffer if constrained too heavily. They're publishing this story one chapter at a time, which is probably a lot harder than being able to write the whole thing out and edit and revise until you're happy to publish. I'm sure the writers and producers have put lots of thought into this problem over the whole season and probably longer. Cut them some slack and give them the benefit of the doubt, okay?
Alright, that' really all I've got to say. Sorry for being a bitch and pissing you off.
And everyone hates the Ewoks. :P -
Just came back from posting on the other thread - trying to explain why I am so disappointed. Give it a read if you want (apologize for using your ID in the heading - but I wasn't really nasty otherwise). As I said over there, I do intend to stick it out and hope good story telling can help me recover from the moment where my suspension of disbelief became unsuspended. I will concede that making Tigh a toaster is gutsy and interesting. I am glad they didn't just go the route of making Seelix, New Dr. Guy, Red Shirt #2 and some other recent addition to the cast the four Cylons. Again, sorry for getting riled up. I hope we're both posting in 2008 about the spectacular conclusion the series just pulled off.
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...is that the writing staff and the producers remain faithful to what they have already created. I won’t go so far as to say they have to remain true to the fans. As much as we would like to think we’re more than just ratings, ratings are the sum of our involvement and “ownership” of the show. Granted, the internet has altered that dynamic to some degree, with forums and talkbacks and web sites devoted to every aspect of a show. And, some series creators do take notice. But, in the long run, the writers and producers can do whatever the hell they want.
My hope is that as the series evolves, whether that maybe one more season or a few more, those in charge maintain a hold on the established universe. Shaking things up for the hell of it will kill the show. The writers and producers must incorporate these new storylines with the old, without destroying everything that came before.
***
I’m also annoyed that Moore felt the need to come out and explain the ending of Season 3. The first lesson a writer learns is to show, not tell. Why tell us absolutely that the four are Cylons? If we – the fans – were meant to know this without a doubt, the script should have been written in a way that left no doubt. Moore has removed a good deal of suspense by not keeping quiet. Sure, there is much left to discuss and debate, but waiting nine months for Season 4 just became easier. In fact, there is less to look forward too.
R.J. -
Didn't the Pope just say Dylan's a Prophet or false Prophet? Anyway, the common music and lyrics can be explained, they came to Dylan the same way they came to the 4 on Galactica - Divine Influence! Either the Human's and Cylon's arrived on Earth in pre-history and the music coming to Dylan is a re-awakening of our lost past OR the music coming to Dylan is a herald of their coming arrival to a more present day Earth.
Whatcha think? -
You have officially found the new term for what was previously referred to as "jumping the shark" - from now on this thoughtless act of storytelling suicide will be known as "Final Fiving" a show...
How fitting that it is an old Star Trek hack who takes up the mantle in this ignoble tradition...
Most of your second season was "meh" quality and then your season cliffhanger was a complete polished turd. Lucky some of us have been die-hard since the cancellation of the original series so we hung in there and then you pulled a spectacular sub-orbital jump and rekindled our interest...
Sadly the rest of the season sucked - especially when you introduced us to the concept of the "Final Five" Cylons who, at the time, were supposedly "boxed" because they went crazy. To add salt to the wound, you hung us all out to dry with the worst ever season finale in the history of television - featuring the most pathetic piss poor use of a once unfuckable Bob Dylan song (someone had to say it) which seems to serve no useful purpose beyond your own narcissistic self-indulgence - and we are not left wondering what is going to happen, but rather WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED??
You, sir, totally Final Fived this franchise! I used to be a lover but now I am officially a HATER! -
That episode was corny at best. But as some have said, Moore confirming they are indeed Cylons upgrades it from "corny" to "lame to the point of derailing a once-proud television series". Ah well. I feel like I'm gonna keep watching but if they don't do something to make this all more palatable, or if they DO do something to make it worse, I'll probably lose interest/patience.
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That show messed me up. I don't know if I liked it or not. Kind of like finding out you were adopted on your 50th birthday... mind-boggling, yes... but does it really matter at this point?
A bit of minute detail nobody's mentioned yet... that old "why do all aliens speak English?"question that haunts all TV sc-fi... an irritating plot issue to deal with, but the best sci-fi shows at least try to do deal with it cleanly and move on. The usual explanation is "they aren't really speaking English, we're just using English to represent their own language, what else can we do?" But if the song is a signal coming from Earth, BSG has finally entered the area where "everybody speaks English", aka bad science fiction. They must be English speakers, or they wouldn 't have understood the lyrics, right? Or do they all have babel fish in their ears, or babel fish software in their cylon noggins? Ahhh... who cares. This whole song thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.
Maybe they'll get to Earth in season 4 but it will be thousands of years in our future and we earthlings have already destroyed ourselves. The earth is a warm wet swamp. The galacticans repopulate our own planet? I'd prefer that to some "Galactica Saves the Whales" crap or cutesy "they're on Earth now" shows where Starback tries to assimilate into the LA nightclub scene or whatever.
I like how that closing shot of Earth pays explicit homage to the opening shot of Contact (the same basic shot of N America, noisy radio signals blaring, bright cosmic zoom effects and everything)
Starbuck has gone glowing Obi-Wan, Gandalf the white, whatever you want to call it... maybe Lee won't be able to prove he saw her... be she'll vanish again at the start of Season 4.
Arrrgh, being a fan sucks.
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I'm willing to trust the writers to explain how this happened.
At least there aren't any "Carrot Beings" like those that visited the Jupiter 2.
No "Super-kids" as in BSG 1980
No magic transporter device that plagued almost all of the ships with the NCC-1701 designation
No stupid fight-actions that involve bringing both clasped hands down on someone's back.
There are still a lot of plus's to this show and I'm willing to wait!
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The following is excerpted from the interview I did with Aaron Douglass and Tamoh Penniket last Septepmber. Man... Can I tell you how much I wanted to just GRILL him after watching Sunday's episode?
Here it is... lemme know yer thoughts (glad that I was a bit prescient about possible Chief-Cylon-dom)
G- Aaron, do you think, despite all the protestations of the chief, that he might be a cylon? An outside chance? Similar to Dean Stockwell?
Or do you just think, no way…
A- is the chief a cylon? No, the chief is NOT a cylon.
G- That's good, 'cause that would be lame. Oh, Sharon 's a cylon and I am a cylon and we both didn't know it.
A- I'd be pissed. I would stake an episode-fee on it. He's not a cylon.
G- as people, or characters do you think anyone else is one?
A- (super fast answer) No one is. It is my belief that we've seen all the Cylons that we're gonna see.
What about that black male doctor on Caprice? He was an 'outsider'/
A- I think all the cylons have been revealed. There are 12, but what you'll find out in season 3... …cylon models get what you call "boxed".
G-Like retired?
A-No, they just turn them off. They take every single copy of that model number and put them in a box and turn them off. You can turn them back on… but they get boxed. One of the cylon models gets boxed in this year.
G- Very cool. (inside my head I am figuring odds on who it might be)
A- The four or five remaining models that you haven't seen; they've been boxed. I think that they've been boxed.
G-Yeah, if you reveal two or three a season, after a few seasons, you're done, no more to show. And no where to go.
A- See, the thing for me, you've seen all these scenes on the cylon ships, or the gatherings of them and you've only seen these specific characters, so if you suddenly introduced a Chinese guy, you'd be …'Where the hell has he been?' If there are millions of copies of this model where has he been? You've seen 20 copies of Dorils, and 15 copies of Sixes. And it's a little chintzy if you go with or say more of the cast is cylon.
G-But I am sure there are people who watch everyone's moves. To see if they're showing signs.
A- That's part of the mystery. The possibility.
G-I would love if it was Khandyse McClure, (Dualla) personally.
T- wow, really?
A- yeah?
G- There are some long takes, like PT Anderson does in Magnolia, or Boogie Nights, that linger on her. And you see her thinking. There's a scene in the head with Gaeta that might be telling… man, if she's a cylon. I told my brother, if I am right about this thing…then man, you owe me something.
T- Well the show does go in unexpected ways. The show is so awesome, it's so unpredictable.
A-The audience nowadays is so much more sophisticated.
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He said he'd stake an episode-fee on it. (being not a cylon)I think he owes me come dinero now. Damn, if only I had his phone # to call and see about collecting it.
Maybe this whole thing is some sort of post-hypnotic suggestion thing?
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thanks for your rant. I can't believe it's the first time I've actually seen someone make that point here. That everything is made up, it's just a question of when. It's not like a show's story arc is handed down from on high (despite the use of the term, 'show bible.') In regards to Grendy's interview, it's also wrong to assume that actors have some special foreknowledge of their character and what will happen to them in the course of a show. Actors are paid labor. Yes, they're creative and they may have input. But ultimately they act the script that's handed to them. Very few actors ever have the chance to sit down with the writers and help map out what's going to happen to their character. So even if the actor didn't know about it at the time, it doesn't mean that it wasn't being formed in the writer's mind. What I have to applaud is Katee Sackhoff's whole politic dance with her interviews that led us to believe that she wouldn't back without actually saying it. She DID know that she was coming back - she had already filmed the scene. But everything she said was carefully worded so that it wouldn't technically be a lie, but also wouldn't reveal the truth. Nice.
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Who would have thought it! Some great acting as well this episode. Tigh frakking tore it up this week, and Lee's speach deserved an oscar.
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(I posted this on the other thread as well)
While I'm not on board with the four characters being Cylons, just to prove I'm not a "hater" I came up with a theory on the whys and hows of the fundamental differences. First off, I asked myself about the whole "boxing" of the five models explanation we had previously been given. Why would the other seven models make up such a story to tell humans? Then assuming this must be true, why can't the seven now remember what the other five even looked like? And at the time of such boxing, were these models fundamentally different from the others, or is that something that occurred after/as a result of the boxing. Now my premise starts off akin to the "all happened before" ideas out there, touching on the historical fact of the 12 Lords of Kobol. The 12 lords align perfectly with the 12 models. Maybe they were enlightened humans, or maybe they were the first humanoid sentient machines. Whatever the case, they used to exist and then disappeared into the ether. Possibly they transcended to a higher plane of being, becoming more spirit than physical being. In any event, humanity (with possible traces of Cylon "blood" in there) disperses, starts the colonies, forgets any past experimentation with artificial life, if any, and the Lords of Kobol become legend. Thousands of years later, the colonies start production of new robotic helpers, these machines revolt, and go off into space. There, experiments to create humanoid lifeforms commence, and they are successful 12 times, but 12 times only. While they can produce the artifice, the bodies, only those first 12 ever gain sentience, with all other efforts being lifeless lumps. This is because that sentience is actually somehow acquired by accidentally tapping into or trapping the essences of the missing Lords that were floating around out there. Maybe the Lords even were looking for some manner of rebirth to physical form (sort of "Wings of Desire" like). Re-born into new bodies, however, they are disoriented and suffer as well as from the fracture of their psyche by the production of numerous duplicates of each model. Now they can't even remember where they came from. Over time, though, with multiple downloads and more and more glimpses into that area between life and death, some start to become aware of their true nature. Five of them try to persuade the other seven to stop any plans the machines had for continuing war against humanity using these perfect new undercover agents. They are deemed crazy for this and end up being boxed as a result. Now all duplicates of these five are terminated and the full collective conciousness of each is concentrated in one last unit that is literally sealed in a coffin. The only escape is to try and overcome their physical entrapment by psychic means. With their newly reintegrated minds, they project outward. Their goal is to save not only humanity, but also awaken their brothers. Maybe they are able to erase their images from the other humanoid Cylon minds to help achieve this goal. Could it be they must then find suitable vessels among the humans, perhaps carrying suitable genetic markers that the other seven Cylons might recognize if they retained the images of the final five? Thus, the psychic Cylon is born, fundamentally different yet still one of the twelve. Maybe I could live with such an explanation. -
so I'm not going to take the six hours to read what came before, but let me just say:
Those four are NOT Cylons, and how could anyone ever actually believe they are?
They gave us the answer during the frakkin' commercials: Who is responsible for the strange music? A) Human sabateurs
B) Cylons
C) A THIRD AS YET UNREVEALED PARTY
This third party is the cause of the INCREDIBLY omniscient in-head Six and in-head Baltar, the source of Roslin's dream/visions (enhanced by the Kumala), and who brought them to the nebula. Basically, how I think this will play out next season, is that there is a third race of beings that have been watching all of this, are intensely powerful, and have brought the humans and cylons together for a REASON. To force a peace treaty? To kill them all? Who knows. But I think they'll be more inclined to listen to one another if there's a third supreme 'moderator' hanging overhead saying, "Now, be good or we'll vaporize all of you instantaneously..."
Sincerest apologies if any/all of this has been said before, I hate when people post shit that's been said a dozen times but I'm too lazy to reread the whole talkback, so phooey. -
And anyone who bashes Dylan should just have their ears cut off. I don't care, fuck you.
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a writer should grow a pair of balls on take a giant leap off of a cliff. man, I can't wait to see how they box themselves out of this corner and good for them. With all these posters talking shit about the finale being lame and improbable and well whatever...I mean you can buy a ship that can take quantum leaps through space and yet still has fucking hand held telephones with fucking wires. If you were going to trash this show for its absurdity you kinda missed the boat. A lot of shit doesn't make sense but look at the story and the set-up. Personally I can't believe he had the balls to do what he did with the five and the song and well I thought it was way over the top but for some reason it worked and it worked well. And for those of you who are crying about the writers pulling the story out of their ass and making it up as they are going along...well here's a fucking news flash...every show, every film is guilty of that...the bridge is built while they're crossing it...and that is without exception. People are screaming bloody murder and crying about what...the fact that a writer stirred the pot, destabilized the shit out of the show, and well good for him, the show needs it, how else would it stay fresh and interesting. But then again I suppose the re are those who want predictability and rote repitition...hmmmm...go watch Everybody Loves Raymond...too bad the show hasn't stayed attack, flee, attack, flee, attack, flee...The show will end next season and they'll probably pull some crazy shit to wrap it all up. I'd be very surprised if they renew for a fifth. I just don't see a way, because there is a point when enough is enough. But people need to fucking relax and stop this arm chair quarterback bullshit. There knocking this show straight out of complancency and good for them.
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It appears that the Cylons have been experimenting with biological components for some time, so the Five could easily be an out of control experiment. Perhaps the Cylons have to walk a fine line between control of their creations and the ability to reproduce biologically. The Human/Cylon Hybrids being another experimental avenue to that end, but can they control those offspring?
I also think we are yet to see different factions of Cylons that have been affecting what we have seen of the Cylons actions. -
Just saw it again knowing what know now and it's fucking awesome.
still a great episode for any series. -
sorry 'bout that.
i'm distracted -
artful, thoughtful and engaging.
just great for any episodic series finale. I can't think of any better at the moment and I've been watching tv for over 30 yrs. Time will tell I suppose. -
which is why the cylons are in awe of them and have never seen them...and the music is because they are coming in closer contact with their other selves.
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The music was a trigger, probably at some ultrasonic level that humans can't hear but Cylons can, and it activated the sleeper cell of the final five... Except that one of the final five didn't respond to it. Was it because they fought the urge? Was it because they were off the ship? Was it because they were locked up? Either way, the music was the key that unlocked their true consciousness and started the process of erasing the false lives they've been living. Nobody was "replaced" but if someone like Tigh were killed in battle, and a Cylon stepped in at THAT point, that's technically not "replacing" Tigh, but "taking over" where the real Tigh left off. The best cover is in plain sight. - - - - The music played at the end as a mood thing, and to finally let us know what they were hearing. Yes, it's 20th century Earth music, but you know what..? That might be ANCIENT music to these people. It might be something out of the far-off distant past, before the Cylons existed, before the colonies were established. --- Why is it that on Star Trek they can talk about Sherlock Holmes and you people geek all over it, but when a 20th century song ends up in a science fiction show, you act like it's some sort of fungus that's invading the sanctity of your view of that universe. We know Earth exists, we know these people are humans and have a lot of technology that is parallel to that on our Earth, so why is it such a stretch to think that the Cylons selected an ancient piece of Earth music as the trigger for their sleeper cell?
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Then how is the baby he had with Callie (assuming that she's not the final of the final five) not as important as Hera?
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Based on the previous finales, here's my take on what happened in this one:
1) Those people are NOT members of the final 5 cylons, for several reasons:
a) Tigh has a personal history with witnesses that precedes the first humanoid cylon models by over 20 years.
b) Back in the early days of the series, Baltar tested the command personnel (when he discovered Sharon) and Tigh passed as human.
c) What ties all these people together? A history of service to humanity and now a psychic shared replay of a song "remembered from childhood" both before and after the jump to the nebula. Given what Starbuck and Tyrol have experienced with visions, I suspect it will prove to be some shared religious/mystic bond inherited from ancient religious leaders of the 13 tribes. Now we know that Bob Dylan is one of those too :)
d) It's just too obvious. These writers love to play with the audience, so expect a less-than-obvious explanation.
2) Starbuck was saved by her Cylon boyfriend (as I expected) in order to find Earth. How she escaped from him, found a Raptor and rejoined the fleet are loose ends to be tied up early next season.
3) Roslin now shares a psychic bond with Caprica, Sharon/Athena and Hera due to her transfusion. This (and continued inter-species breeding) is ultimately how the Cylons and humans will end their war against each other.
4) I'll amend my earlier list of the final 5 (Billy, Gaeta, Dualla, Zarek and Starbuck) to replace Starbuck with Ellen Tigh. She will pop up again at a critical time (along with Billy for Roslin) and both Tigh and Roslin will do something stupid but ultimately meaningful as a result.
5) Zarek will become President after Roslin dies and help make peace with the Cylons before reaching Earth.
6) They all reach Earth at the same time at the series finale. No "first contact", no battles, just a pretty picture of both Cylons and humans gazing together at the Earth. Sequels, anyone? Either that, or it's another cliffhanger like Farscape to insure a made-for-TV movie that wraps everything up.
Now some questions:
1) Was the power shutdown another beacon from the lost tribe to guide the psychic ones to Earth? It certainly seemed that the "trigger" occurred right after that happened, so it may have been a way to dampen all background EM noise and allow the psychics to bond.
2) Did the power shutdown also effect the Cylon ships? Although we saw the fleet arrive on Dradis, there weren't any cylon fighters launched that I could see.
3) Baltar appears to have a pseudo-religious cult following now. Expect that to go head-to-head with the established religious faction throughout the next season amid acts of terrorism. He will ultimately be reunited with Caprica 6, but how that ends is anyone's guess.
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