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‘I'm Going To Show You What Came Out Of It!!!’ LOST 3.13!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
LOST 3.13 FAQ
What’s it called?
“The Man From Tallahassee.”
What does TV Guide say?
“Ben tries to talk Locke out of his destructive plan by offering him some island secrets. Meanwhile, Kate's reunion with Jack does not go off as planned when she discovers he has made a deal with the Others. Flashbacks focus on Locke. Richard Alpert: Nestor Carbonell.”
How did last week’s promo go?
“He is transformed unlike any other survivor.”
“This island, it made me whole.”
“He has become a warrior and a leader of men.”
“We were brought here for a reason. All of us.”
“Next Wednesday, on an all-new ‘Lost’ … ”
“I’m not looking for Jack.”
“ … the John Locke story everyone has been waiting for … ”
“I know you spent four years in a wheelchair … ”
“ … is finally revealed.”
“ … and I know how you ended up in it.”
Four years?? And we find out how Locke got in that chair?
Yes. "I was afraid it'd be anticlimactic," Terry O'Quinn tells Entertainment Weekly. "It's not. It's pretty stunning. You're gonna go, 'Man, no wonder this guy wants to stay here!'"
Does Charlie die this week?
We don’t know. The current flashback batting order is said to be:
3.13 Locke
3.14 NikkiPaulo
3.15 Kate
3.16 Juliet
3.17 Desmond
3.18 JinSun
Is Bai Ling in this episode?
We don’t know.
Does Desmond makes a prediction this week?
We don’t know. But we hear he has a big role to play next week.
What else is TV Guide not telling us?
Locke’s organ-swiping daddy is back. There are Orange County detectives and a government worker.
10 p.m. Wednesday. ABC.
TAKE A LOOK, SONNY!!!!
IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN!!!!
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After the last three episodes, Lost appears to be back. Let's hope they can keep it up.
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You made me a lost talkback
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Mar 21, 2007 12:59:19 PM CDT
Remember how you bitched about "not asking questions"
by dapper swindler
Now we get Locke and Ben going in a one-on-one Q&A session. And guess what, Locke is going to choose answers over salvation because he is an obsessed nut - just like we are!
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It's about time they posted this article so we can get the talkback started. I have been bored as shit at work all day waiting for this.
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so where are the spoilers, herc?
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...why Locke's been acting like the retarded half-brother of the character he was in Season One.Seriously, listening to Sayid talk to him the last couple of episodes has been like listening to myself talk to my 18-month-old."John? What are you doing? No, John! Don't touch that! Put it down! That's a bad John! John?"
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Tonights ep is gonna rock in so many ways. I am so excited for it, I feel like a virgin school girl on prom night! I wonder if we get to find out if Jack was for real last week when he was playing football, or if the Others made him pretend to fool the Losties, or if he was pretending so he could fool the Others. I hope we find out. Also, I cant wait for the inevitable(?) Locke-Jack showdown or Sayid-Jack/Locke showdownn that is brewing. Hell Yeah!
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After a bit of a lull, the energy seems to be returning to the show. I still think Lost is a better overall show than Heroes (which I really like), but I'm hoping the creators of Lost will take a page from the Heroes book and pick up the pace a little. There's a lot of redundancy in Lost (i.e. make a trip into the forest, return with nothing new added to the story, make a trip into the forest to rescue someone, return having not rescued them, repeat.) The new developments have added some much needed juice into the story. Here's hoping they keep it up!
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1) The Others are making him pretend
2) Jack has been brainwashed
3) That's not Jack
4) The Others "broke it down" for Jack and he decided to join them freely
5) He's just passing the time with the pigskin until Ben recovers and the Others allow him to leave the island.
6) Time-warp-clone-blackhole-space-alien-madness
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I'm totally flipping out with anticipation of tonights episode. There have been few spoilers, video clips or photos from this episode which usually means it is going to be so packed full of awesomeness that they don't want to spoil a minute. I wonder what "Island Secrets" Ben is goingto spill to John to keep him from blowing up the...
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http://tinyurl.com/34epqs
http://tinyurl.com/3ybrce -
Jack has had those tat's since Season One.
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It looks like from the brief clip I saw that Jack has a new tat on the inside of his left forearm. What's that all about?
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"Anybody want to comment on Football Jack's new tattoo?"
Um... do you mean the mud on his elbow? 'Cause I seem to remember that you can get a little dirty when playing football on natural grass... -
Every "mistake" he's made recently has been incredibly deliberate. He blew up the Flame on purpose, there's no doubt in my mind. He wants to STAY on the island, so he's doing everything in his power to sabotage the Losties in their efforts to get off the island. He DID knock Sayid on the head back in season 1.
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I don't know dude...it sure looked like a tattoo on the inside of his arm. Weird place to get mud and leave it there to shake hands with Ben. I think it was a tattoo, but I could be wrong.
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By the Hair of Sanjaya I hope we see Smart Locke back instead of the Lame Locke we've had this season. He went from my favorite character to a big zero. Here's hope'n.
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Crazy like a Fox! I think we'll see tonight that Locke is very, VERY smart and maybe a bit of a bad dude!
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I have never once waivered in my love for this show and I look forward to every new episode with gleeful anticipation. It is like the great show The Prisoner mixed with Twin Peaks. I don't mind my answers coming a teaspoon at a time when the acting and the mystery is this much fun.
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I don't know what to make of Jack. I honestly hope that he has joined the Others on his own (no brain washing)because that will make an awesome plot twist and really piss off the Losties. I don't really see why people seem to think that this is a different Jack. The only thing I noticed in those photos above was Tom's jiggly man boobs. The cloning idea is horrible and I really hope the show doesn't go down that route. I think it is the real Jack and he has joined freely because of the promise to get him off the island or that the Others are making him pretend. I dont think he could be brain washed in three days, Jack is stronger than that.
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First we had mysterious Locke, then kickass Locke, then disillusioned Locke, then lame Locke, next we get ... diabolical Locke!
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I feel the same way dude. Loved it from the start and never waivered.
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...but it ain't Jack.
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It's obvious...we know that Juliet was introduced as a possible love-interest for Jack. We also know that she was told she could leave the island after 6 months and has been there for 3 years so she wants off too. I have no doubt there will be crosses and double-crosses and maybe even triple-crosses before the smoke clears.
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Locke is just a guy who has been crapped on his whole life and everytime he belives in something or someone he is left disappointed. He HAS been reborn on this island and he's just searching for answers and something to believe in. He believed in the hatch and the button and even though he was wrong ultimately his actions will lead him to what he is searching for. What that is I don't know but he is the same Locke now as we was day one.
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to read your post ErecT. I want to experience for myself tonight.
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...that Locke has been "playing dumb" with the ulterior motive being to rid the island of the Others so the Losties can live there happily and unchallenged, I'll be sorely disappointed in the writers.I could see Locke, who is crafty yet somewhat simple in his approach to complex problems, coming to the conclusion that, witht he Others out of the way, the Losties might not be trying quite so desperately to find a way off the island.It would be just like Locke (the one we've always known) to formulate a complex and indirect plan to acheive this relatively simple end. And I'd be fine with that.
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I don't think the quality of the show has ever gone up or down. It is just one long story and people seemed to enjoy the suspense and excitement of the beginning rather than the slower grind of the middle. But both parts are necessary for the bigger pictures.
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No spoilers; I'm speculatin' here.
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Bout time Herc. Listen everyone. I know your excited for tonight's episode. God knows I am too. But let's just take a step back here. We're finding out how Locke was paralyzed, not why he was cured which in my mind is the more interesting question. So when we see Locke get into a car accident or something tonight I don't want to hear ONE FUCKING WORD from bitches complaining about how anticlimatic it is. Just remember that if it is run'o'the mill physical trauma that caused it, it just makes the fact that the island has seemingly cured him even more fantastic. So everyone have a beer, take a xanax and calm the fuck down.
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You know, back when he was digging out the hatch and had a crisis of faith?
Did Desmond mess something up at that time? I can't recall. -
judging from a theory posted in the 24 talkback yesterday, NEXT WEEK with Nikki and Paulo is going to be ass kickingest episode of the season.
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If the "island" can cure cancer, paralysis, instill time travelling ability, surely it can make a mud stain look like a red rose tattoo with stars around it on Football Jack's inside elbow.
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In one of the podcasts the producers admitted that Jacob is the "him" Ben and the Others have been talking about. I am so pumped to find out who Jacob is and how he fits into the island mysteries. I am also really glad that the mention of Jacob's List will eventually be a big reveal and that he wasn't just another Goodwin character who was sent to get info the Losties. It will be awesome to find out who he is and why his list is so important.
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I've thought that for a while. Everything that happens on Lost has a reason behind it and the fact that Locke's dad is a con-man and James Ford (Sawyer)is looking for a man probably old enough to con his folks when he was young all makes sense. Locke's Dad is probably the title character of The Man From Tallahassee and we may not learn this tonight but just like Claire is Jack's sister, Anthony Cooper is Sawyer.
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I read before the season started that at some point mid-way through the season there would be a "gamechanging" event. I wonder if we'll see that tonight or next week in Hottie/Take a Shit Guy's episode?
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So, is Locke the guy who Hurley saw falling when he was visiting his accountant?
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Locke was already paralyzed and working at the box company at that time I believe so I don't think it was Locke. Just an example of the way bad luck and death surrounded Hurley at that time.
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Is it just me or do those gray blobs in the back of AICN wallpaper look like those old diagrams from highschool of a female's delicate areas? Maybe its just me. I always do bad on those inkblot tests.
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I heard that's coming next week.
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what's the point of putting spoiler header on this article if each line is 'we don't know'??? just seems silly. and another thing, who cares if bai ling is in the episode or not? she probably didn't know what she was talking about when she said she was on for three episodes.
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Nope. They forgot the plot point about the returning paralysis. It was never alluded to again. The writer developing that particular plot point could be off the show for all we know, never to tell us where he was going.
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unfortunatly....or fortunatly...
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unfortunatly....or fortunatly...
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double the fun!
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well eventually we all die, but I think Charlie will be sticking around the island for awhile, provided he gets the fuck away from Claire. Having Charlie die wouldn't be surprising but to have him in near death situations and almost die only not to is called DRAMA.
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Lindelof has said that Nikki and Paulo will become "iconic characters on the show" after their flashback episode (next week I guess). This could just be him hyping his show up -- they've made anticipatory comments like that before that have turned out to be nothing -- or we could be in for a big surprise with them. I just hope it's cool.
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If what i read is true about next week, it is going to BLOW YOU AWAY!
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what they are doing is once again lying down the tnt, which will be carefully lit and defused, re lit and then come the Two hour season finale. Bang. all the moaners will be shut up and we will be wanting to see what happens in Season 4. JJ is a genius. there is a major storm coming and you can tell. I think Charlie gets his commupance in the season finale. The others have heard that Charlie killed ethan and exact there own revenge and dont rule out the possibilty of the others using Jin's pregancy against her for killing on them. She warned Micheal that her husband had a bad temper.......
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Mar 21, 2007 2:14:29 PM CDT
Locke has unfinished business with Ben and the island
by performingmonkey
Remember, he's the only Lostee to look into the 'eye' of the island (Eko is dead so he doesn't count). My guess is that the Hostiles (face it, it's time to stop calling them 'the Others') know of Locke's paralysis because of this. I think the smoke monster basically downloaded his whole memory. They need to flashback to when Locke encountered the smoke monster.
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we know that Jin has a very bad temper so, the others will iam sure sue that as revenge on Sun.
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I think you mean Sun's pregnancy, seeing as Jin is a MAN and all. ;-)
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that is whay made the correction. but we all know its coming. Jin is dangerous.
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The only thing on the island that should be truly scared of Jin is Vincent the dog!
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that correction was not posted when i sent my message so kiss my ass.
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a producer didn't say it. I did, based on a possible spoiler.
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Just like Michael did for Walt and freedom. Screw everyone else, I would do the same thing to get off that rock. Hell, Jack may switch just because he is so easily manipulated by every one else in his life. Also *spoiler* Take a shit guy is going to become an "other" as well, just for the indoor plumbing!!!
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If you guys want to read a kick ass theory about next week's Nikki/Paolo episode that makes alot of sense and explains alot than g oto the 24 talkback.
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If you want massive spoilers, go here... http://tinyurl.com/2kc3zd but be forewarned, if you scroll down a little this contains a supposedly accurate blow-by-blow of what happens in tonight's episode. And for heaven sake don't post the spoilers in the talkback.
Based on the blow-by-blow, tonight's episode should be really good.
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Will probably become the Him/Her dead bodies that were found in the cave.
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Isn't credible with me based on that picture. Nicki and Paulo were on the opposite side of Claire. And really, they didn't film all of this at once. The theory that Nicki & Paulo are actually Rose & Bernard is crazy talk. Rose and Bernard are there on the island according to the writers but the actors that play them aren't available and their storyline isn't central to the plot right now. But they'll be back I'm sure.
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The last three weeks they've said there will be answers, and there have been none. There never will be any that make a damn bit of sense. BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING! THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN! IT'S ALL BEING MADE UP AS WE GO ALONG! Cripes! How can people not see this? Why do you think they go for week, months even! without following up on story threads? Because... THEY! DON'T! HAVE! A! CLUE! WHAT! IS! GOING! TO! HAPPEN! Everything about this show has become complete crap. It will not make it more than another season. I don't even watch the night it airs anymore - just record it (love those new Comcast DVR boxes!). It's just, frustraitingly bad.
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...but get ready for a boat load of flames from the apologists. People have a hard time handling the honest truth sometimes.
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the chicas are hot on that show. That's what makes me frustrated.
Sexually...
Hell I'm spankin it right now!
Opps, shouldn't have said that. -
Oh that's right. You can't because the show is too good. What a little bitch you are. Your foaming at the mouth, misinformed, illogical, untruthful rant doesn't even deserve a response but, alas, I couldn't help but tell you that you are a pathetically stupid asshole.
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Has anyone ever uttered the words "anger issues" to you? Just wondering.
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Now lick my nuts dipshit.
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Ok, while I agree (in a very general way) with what pwnedbystallone is saying (i.e. if you don't like it, don't watch.), I find it amusing that
1. Someone attacking another talkbacker as illogical and pathetically stupid would try to be clever by changing his target's name to make it sound like poop. Good one, dude. You really got him there.
2. Jaka's ranting about a the quality of a show, while still watching it and PnwedByStallone's reply are remarkably similar to posts by PwnedByStallone and many people on the Heroes talkbacks. Slightly hypocritical, don't ya think? -
I'm inclined to agree with arcade fireman on this. The pictures don't mean anything. It's a possibility, but that picture doesn't prove anything. Besides, wouldn't it be kind of mean of Desmond to kick Rose and Bernard off the plane? And difficult, since he was already on the island no matter which of his timelines it was.
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Rose and Bernard were much more interesting than these two.
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that nothing will be answered. Sure they'll tell us about hoe Locke got in the wheel chair, but they don't tell us how he got out. The big Q and A between Ben and Locke is just more of th vague mumbo jumbo talk that we have been hearing since the begining of the show. Only in Hollywood do people speak this way. In short another 42 minutes of the writers pulling your chain and leaving you with less than they promised.
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Tonight!We! Dine! In HELL!!
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Whats with everyone trying to make Niki and TASG into someone else already on the island. First they are the skeletons in the cave. How the fuck could that be possible, and i dont want to here some long elaborate time travel theory. It just doesnt make sense. Now they are supposed to be Rose and Bernard. What the hell is that about? Why cant they just be Niki and TASG? Whats next? Maybe they are Jack and Kate? Yeah TASG is really Jacks clone that we saw playing football but he just wears a disguise when he is TASG. That could be why he always is in the bathroom, he is changing into his TASG costume just like superman in a phone booth. Yeah right! These ideas are a little crazy, but I guess we will find out next week who they really are. My bet is they are Others or they have switched sides and are working for the Others. Maybe they get pissed about never being involved in things and jump shit, I mean jump ship, even though Paulo has probably already "jumped shit". Or they may have been kidnapped, brainwashed (hence why we didn't see them all of season 1 or 2, they were with the Others), and now replanted back in with the Losties. Just an idea.
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Rodrigo Santoro, aka toilet paper guy, as Xerxes in 300. Considering he is barely recognizable in the role.
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But I'm back bc the show's picked up and I haven't seen anyone clarify this, so I'ma gonna:
Locke knows what he's doing. He's got another agenda. Here is why:
He took explosive from the house. That means he KNEW it was wired. That means he CHOSE to blow it up. Mr. Eye Patch was about to tell everyone he was paralyzed (sp?). AND they needed to test the fence. Perfect oppertunity. Locke has a plan. Locke is playing dumb. Locke pwns us all. He got distracted by the button last season and now he's back. I still want to see Locke and Ben stare down the smoke monster. Tonight and next week are gonna be great! -
I much prefer just reading the spoilers to Lost nowadays. I know, I know, I'm a fucking moron with ADD that has no idea what good TV is. I can accept that, I just can't accept shows with a billion questions that really only had 3 seasons worth of a material but were forced by producers to stretch it to 7+. That shit drives me fucking nuts. I quit watching about 4 weeks ago, now I'm just reading recaps since the show has gone nowhere. I like how they answer questions no one really asked. I don't care how Locke got into the chair, I want to know what made him get out of it. I'll start watching again if they really answer a few questions. Tell me why they dressed up like hillbillies, tell me about the lists they made and why they made them. Tell me about the statue, "adam & eve", Walt, the whispers or maybe even that smoke monster. For fucks sake, it won't ruin the show and it doesn't all need to be explained in the last episode of the series. There are plenty of other questions like, what is the fucking deal with the entire island that could be told at the end. This is still an interesting show and it could grab me back to salivating over it every week if they'd just go back to the cool stuff. But it won't, so I will continue not watching it.
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That brings me to this tidbit of trivia: in 300, when Xerxes gets behind Leonidas and puts his hands on Leo's shoulders, he says "Its not my whip they fear..." and EVERYONE all 3 times I saw that movie busted out laughing like they were in 7th grade again. Don't know what's funnier, the fact that it is kinda funny, or the fact that EVERYONE in 3 audiences is perverted :P
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strange behavior make perfect sense. Its almost as if they PLANNED to have him do strange things that could be interpreted as dumb, only to later REVEAL they have A REASON for it. THATS! ONE! REASON! I! ENJOY! THIS! SHOW!CAN'T! WAIT! FOR! TAKES! A! SHIT! GUY'S! FLASHBACK! NEXT! WEEK!
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How anyone can watch this show and say the writers don't have a plan is beyond me. Sure, the plan may not unfold at the rate some would like, but everything is tied together nicely and there is clearly a master plan and and ending that they are working toward. But the fact is it is a hit TV Show and they can't answer everything and end the story. ABC and Touchstone have too much on the line. I personally like the way we are being told the story and the speculation about what's going on is what makes it interesting.
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...I'll be sorely disappointed if we find out that Locke's dumb ends up just being dumb and he really only thinks he knows what he's doing. I think more of the character than that. I'd hope the writers do, too.Just because Locke blew up the building on purpose, doesn't mean it was teh smart thing to do.That said, even if tonight's episode blows goats, there's no way in heaven, hell or the man-made purgatory that is The Island that I'm going to miss Take A Shit Guy's flashback. He is my hero.
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Who would have thought that 5, 6 weeks ago when two unknown characters were suddenly thrown into the mix and shoved down our throats that now we would be highly inticipating their flashback episode. I admit it, I hated them at first and now I am all about TASG and his hottie girl riend. I laughed my ass of when he wouldn't give Sawyer's magazine back because he just used it in the shitter. Who would have thought we would be this interested in the characters. But the writers have done a good job making us care about them and interested in how they are incorporated into the overall story. Again, Writers = Geniuses.
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that Nikki and Paulo have been there since the beginning wandering around in the background. Collecting stuff off the beach with the other unamed actors that mingle sometimes with the cast. Like Arzs, he didnt come from nowhere as were steve and scott, there is a much bigger cast then some of realise. The cast for this program is huge. so just reiterate Nikki and Paulo were always there. its not a case that they were parachuted in or something.
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They've got the next Clooney on their hands, but they do next to nothing with him.And in regards to the show, the stuff back at the beach is coming off as Gilligan shit as of late.
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What's important is where he's going next. Because he keeps going...and going...and going. He's the Energizer bunny of poop.He must be all kinds of man, though, for Exposition girl to wait patiently for him and explain everything to his stinky ass when he gets back from the crapper.Again - My hero.
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I've had it with the whiners who moan about the same old thing. Look: Lost isn't the show for you if you don't want your answers stretched out. It's like moaning that there's too many chicks in desperate housewives, or that too many people get shot in 24.I've enjoyed every episode of Lost I've seen, even the supposedly crap episodes. I can totally understand why people bitch about these episodes, but I still enjoy watching them. The writing is good, the show has a good sense of humour and the ensemble cast works together brilliantly. The acting is also a cut above most other shows, plus the scenery is miles better. There was a wide shot in the last episode, where Rousseau stands at the top of a slope and the rest of them walk in from the side and I found the shot especially striking.That may sound stupid, I know, but I'm just trying to put across that some shows are good for reasons other than how fast they move along. The writers pick up on a lot of the things the fans say, and you can see this in recent episodes. Like Paulo asking where the oatmeal is, then later walking away with the toilet paper, and Sawyer asking Nikki who the hell she was. But the most sigificant nod to the fans, for me, was the recent Hurley episode, where FUCK ALL happened, but it was still good to see the Sawyer, Jin, Hurley and Charlie goofing around and playing off each other. That episode was basically the writers saying exactly what I've been saying "This show isn't just about problem--solution, problem2--solution2, problem3--solution3. It's above that, and thankfully (some) people can still enjoy the show for what genuinely makes it a great show, and the creators aren't forced to lower themselves to the type of textbook drama production 101 that you can find on any channel at any time, and yet some are still crying out for."
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I realize it's a tough show to watch and you have to have an incredible amount of patience to wait each week as they dangle the answers in front of you. You might be better off just forgetting about the show for now and watching all of it at once on DVD so you don't have to endure that. Me, I can't stop now. I'm in too deep. I. have. to. watch.
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A few points The "Anthony Cooper is the Real Sawyer" thing - I like this idea, and if you remember waaaay back in S1 there was an odd scene where Locke asks Sawyer, "So James... Why did you pick the name Sawyer?", to which he doesn't really reply and Locke gets that silly/sly grin of his on. Always made me think he knew Papa Coop used the alias Sawyer before. I saw those promo pics of Nikki/Paulo/Claire etc, and I have to admit that it would be a weird route to go, replacing R&B. But, who's to say what repercussions there were after Des got clocked with a baseball bat instead of the bartender. And he was ranting like a loon at Charlie, talking about the Island. If we believe that Des did indeed travel back in time and alter his path slightly, then anyone he made contact with would be subject to an altered destiny as well. I.e., Charlie who now must die for some reason. I'm not sure I really like that they decided to throw time travel in the mix, but I feel like part of it is the fact that they have to stretch things out if they wanna make a 5 season show run for 7 seasons. 50 extra episodes is a bitch to stretch out. Fucking ABC cashwhores. Ahem. Anyway... The thing about Locke's momentary paralysis back in S1... That was while he was trying to open the hatch, right? Which is NOT where he was supposed to be going. He was SUPPOSED to stumble across the plane and find the Pearl. Boone changed that when he pussed out and decided to go back, which resulted in finding the hatch door. So, the Island sends him the vision of the plane, and says "THAT'S where you gotta go. GO THERE, or I'mma take yo' legs, boy!" (not sure why the Island is an cranky old black man in my head, but bear with me) So he finds the plane and his legs give out, RIGHT at the door to the Pearl. But he's not focusing on the Pearl, he wants to get into the Swan so badly he can taste it. Thus, the Island showed him the blast door map and used Eko to nudge him in the right direction. Which leads us to the next question, which would be "Why did the Island want Locke to find the Pearl?" Obviously there's more to it than just some TV's. Or even more to see. I wish they hadn't left just because Eko died. Alas. Oh yea, and so people don't think I'm a 'plant' or some such garbage.... Lost fucked up! THEY TOTALLY FORGOTZ0RZ ABOUT THE PART ABOUT THEM BEING STUCK ON AN ISLAND SO THAT PROVES THAT THEY WRITREEZZ ARE TEH SUCK AN DONT KNO NOTHIN BOUT WHATS UP OR NOTHIN!! AND! I! LIKE! TO! SCREAM! ALOT! Oh, one last thing... could we collectively stop posting the episode synopsis' in the talkback? Come on. Can't you just link to it with a super clever title like "EPISODE SYNOPSIS HERE: link". Thanks. Unless you posted the synopsis because you 'hatez teh l0st whik haz gumpd teh shurk!!!!11' and think you're being funny, which I assure you, you're not. Nor will you ever be. Ok, now that that's off my chest, bring on the inevitable flames! Haha, kudos to Pwned for chiding everyone who is going to freak out regardless of what happens tonight. Nip it in the bud man, I'm with ya. I guarantee it won't be specifically what I had in my head (psychosomatic trauma from his inability to save someone from harm - perhaps Helen? thus resulting in a total loss of confidence manifested in his legs becoming "paralyzed") but I'm sure it'll be entertaining. And yea, I'm psyched about TASG and Hotness's flashback. Any flashback that takes place on the island is bound to be fucking asburdly cool. The Tailie flashback, the Desmond flashback... Hopefully the next Juliet flashback will be on Island too. I always hoped as the series went on they would phase out the "character backstory" elements for the characters we know all about and start showing us shit we've seen on Island from a different perspective. Sooo looking forward to the Charlie episode where he remembers what happened before he got strung up. Ok, I think that's enough for now.
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Oh I gotsta have my Lost fix. No repeats was a great idea, they just didn't go far enough with it.
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According to the writers the episode will shed new light on events on the island from a different perspective. Like what really happened in the Swan station!?? It wasn't Desmond that blew it up... What we find out is that just as the key was turned, Take a Shit Guy was in the station shitter christening it with a SHIT so ungodly in size, that the sheer mass of it sucked all of time and space into a black hole vortex that sent Desmond back to his past and turned the sky purple. (probably as a result of a days gorging on Brazilian passion fruit and red cabbage.)
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are Adam and Eve?
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That "mystery tattoo"? I'm pretty sure Jack has had it the whole time, but I could be wrong. They're always filming him on the left side to get the left shoulder tat, so you hardly ever see his left inside forearm. And I distinctly remember at one point saying, "WTF is that shit on his arm? Is that another tattoo?" That, or the people who don't have an X-Ray machine cloned a full grown human being in three days. o_O;; It's not just me, that does sound asinine, right?
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I must be blind. Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert?!?! IN TONIGHT'S LOCKE EPISODE?! Either he's in Locke's flashback, or he's ON the Island! YESS!!! BATMANUEL!!!
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to stop saying, "One last thing..." in the Lost talkback? It's never the last thing. As soon as I click "Post" something else pops into my head. Oh, and one last thing... JacobisBernardisPaulowhotookashitonDesmondinthefuture.
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AH, NINGEN NINGEN FUCKER!! Death Note rules. ^_^ I fuckin' love Wednesdays.
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Not a three day old full grown man clone. In reality they are called TWINS. I don't recall seeing a red rose with stars (at least it sorta looks like one) on Jack before, but I could be wrong.
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I've learned the same thing, once I start posting in a Lost talkback I'm worthless for the rest of the day...oh hell
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I love being right. http://tinyurl.com/2gj4n4 That would be from Season 1, Episode 22 "Born to Run". First episode I checked actually. Want some more?
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http://tinyurl.com/2zru2l Blurry as shit, but I believe that red splotch would be the "clone tattoo". Season 1, Episode 5 "White Rabbit". Wanna bet there'll be more?
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Charlie will die and be physically resurrected as a new messiah.
Jacks dead father will appear as Charlies first convert.
We will see a flash forward to Charlies cultish future where all women are clean shaven with the drapes matching the carpet and all men castrated, except Locke.
The smog monster will appear to Locke as Anna Nichole Smith and the two will live in bliss on the other other island.
Charlie will eventually be taken down in an episode very reminescent of Lord of Illusions.
We will also see every person who has died brought back to life, as had happened to Jacks/Claires father.
So sayeth the lord, hussah hussah hussah. -
Again from "White Rabbit" http://tinyurl.com/29n39m They do a pretty damn good job of not making it extremely visible in most shots. I had to search a whole 5 minutes to find that first shot. Probably so they can sucker people into a red herring by blatantly displaying it at a later point. But yea. It's always been there. Dave - 1 Cloners - Big fat ZERO.
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If I hear one more person suggest that Nikki and Paulo are Adam and Eve, I am going to take a gun and blow my goddamned head off. Why are people so insistent on this theory? Why? Because Adam and Eve are a man and a woman and because Nikki and Paulo are ALSO a man and a woman? OMG! What a coincidence! Let's forget about however they went back in time, joined the dharma initiative, and died together. They are a couple and so are Adam and Eve - it must be true.
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Nestor gets to play Ram Dass. Cool.
Be here now bitches, be here now. -
the FIRST one Charlie castrates? Charlie to Locke in "Further Instructions" - "As amusing as the 'mute game' invariably is, you are aware, John, that I *detest* you, aren't you? You do remember repeatedly punching me in the face and accusing me of using heroin when I was *not*?" Charlie and Locke have had some of the best interactions on this whole show, consistently.
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Locke would have been whisked away by the ANSmog monster, DUH!
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http://tinyurl.com/2q8vp8 WOW, that had me on the FLOOR. What. the. bananas. They're just two WILD AND CRAAAZZZY GUYS!
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Curses, I forgot about ANSmog! NNNNNOOOOOOoooooooooo.....
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from Steve_Dooku and byusc for putting me through the inane drivel of "OMG HE'S GOT A NEW TATTOO IT'S HIS TWIN THAT HE NEVER MET WHO IS ON THE ISLAND!!" Come on, own up boys. Playtime is over. Shoulda done some research before you start pulling shit out of your asses. Although, to be fair, even Lostpedia has a new thing under the "Jack's Tattoo" thread about "What is the new red tattoo on Jack's arm?". Unless one of you punks started it, obviously there are others who were just as easily fooled. Geez, guys. I'm a stoner, I'm SUPPOSED to have a lousy memory. Yet still do I pwn thee. Take it and weep for your beloved clonefuckjacktwinwhatever bullshit.
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Yea, on the drive home on Wednesday I'm always like, "I'm gonna do this, and watch this and make some food and blah blah..." Instead I sit on the Lost talkback all night. Go figure.
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Ass.
How proud your Mom must be. Go upstairs and tell her.
It's just a talk-back dude. Hardly worthy of a Nobel prize.
I looked through a couple of episodes featuring Jack and they sure do a good job of covering that thing up. -
For getting so worked up about it. All too easy.
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...keep getting fatter? and, still no word on the stone foot. How many more seasons is this shit on for?
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I already told her. She was so proud, she put a printout of the talkback up on the fridge. Way to backtrack, shitheap. I know you have a rusty cheese grater for a brain, but remember how this started? I said "There are no clones!" because I am a well-informed Lost fanatic, and you said "WELL THANKS FUCKER AREN'T YOU SO SMART I GUESS IT'S OBVIOUS" and were all snarky about it. You did what I like to refer to as "poking the bear". Don't go whining like a little bitch about "but but but but it's just a taaaalkbaaaaack *sniffle*" when the bear gets up and WHAPS YOU IN THE FACE. It's kinda the punishment for poking him in the first place.
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the russian guy before he was electrocued, said that he knew locke. locke killed him. in Season one when jack finds the cave and then adam and eve, he discovers a pouch and in that are two marbles, one black and one white. In the episode where claire gets kidnapped by the others she has a nightmare and its dark. for those who have the season one dvd look at lockes eyes. one black and one is white. Also notice in the episode, where he and boone team up for the first time and are in the jungle. after boone asks what did locke do before (locke worked in a box company) they are standing in the forest and locke seemingly knows when it is going to rain and with such precision who have to ask is he in some way connected to the Dharma Initiative, take the moment when he is in the shack and sees the c4 and later on He and Sayid have a go at one another and yet locke pulls out of his bag some C4. Locke is one of the best written characters because unlike sawyer who is a con man or kate who uses her tomboyism and wiles deceive people, locke is subtle and that is what makes him so dangerous. He gets people to trust and then turns on them and if you dont believe me, remember boones demise. Who stood on the ground while boone was in the plane. John Locke. Locke watched the plane fall with boone inside. boone died and Locke said it was an accident. He used the excuse of the boar to hide the fact that they had found the hatch. Even from season one and the way he sat on the Beach. You asked Who is that guy? In order to win a military game you have think like a Soldier and that is what locke is doing. Now that we know Jack and claire are related are there anymore people on the island that are related like kate and Locke. She did mention that her dad was ranger. But she is a liar. for a guy who worked a box company, Lockes tracking skills are second to none.
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But, considering that I *am* superior to *you*, in this instance it's ok. See, the proper way to respond when you get thoroughly PWNED is to bow your head in shame and admit defeat. You've decided to continue being snarky. The bear does not appreciate this. Not that I, like, care and stuff. 'cuz like, it's just a talkback. It's not like, you know, a conversation with other human beings. I mean, we're ALL clones, aren't we? Or are we twins with matching tattoos? Ahh, who cares anymore. I pwned you and I'm satisfied and my mommy loves me just the way I am. She says I'm SPECIAL, so FUCK OFF, NERFHERDER! =D
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I am glad I can provide you with such entertainment in your life.
You are the Supreme LOST fanatic Commander. You can bet I'll be around here to continue to aggrevate you and watch you "pwn" us all and bless us with your words of LOST wisdom and pwnership. You're also too wrapped up in all this to know I was poking you intentionally. Sad. -
lots of good points there. I like the idea that Locke is playing EVERYONE on the Island, like it's a big war game and he's the general. Although, re: the rain thing, I've read that in a jungle like that you can usually hear the rain coming from about a half-mile away or so, from the noise it makes on the canopy if I remember correctly. Yea, Locke is a devious fucker. You watch, Rolande. We'll see if Locke turns out to be more of an Evil Motherfucker in the end than Obi-wan was.
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Ah, that's it. Shower me with praise, MINION!! You seem to be too interested in what I have to say to realize that this is the kind of shit I *live* for. Sure, call me shallow and narcissistic. I love pwning snotty little bitches that think they know it all without putting in the time and effort to validate what the fuck they're saying. Just plain lazy, from where I'm sitting. Hah, this reminds me of the end of Stand by Me. "What are you gonna do, kid, pwn us all?" "Just you, Dooku. Just you." And, might I add, there certainly was a classier route than what was essentially a "your mom" retort. Be a little more creative next time, or this is going to get boring.
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Goddard and Pinkner writing with Bender directing. A fair amount is revealed, Locke's wheelchair story was satisfying in my opinion, and a total homage to Alias at the end.
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In my worthless opinion anyways, this was - by far, the best episode of Season III. Locke Finally got back to his badassness, and I hope no one drops spoilers cause they'll ruin the entire episode.
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It's nice living next to Canada, without actually living IN Canada.
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I think the "mom" thing got to you because you can't put it away. I had a lot of fun with this, and I think you really should take a little of this extra time you have a surplus of and re-read my posts. I never claimed ANY of this as fact. It's called speculation and guessing. You're pissed because I in fact pwned you without you knowing.
Of course I am interested in what you say, your psycho responses are entertaining. I can't wait until Heroes come back on. LOL -
Who knew what Gary Busey looks like sober?
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You beat me, scare me, humiliate me, then apologize and tell me that you're sorry. This relationship is a rollercoaster ride of emotion. Love and hate. Two sides of the same coin, no? I loved the Locke flashback, and I also loved Locke's exchange with Ben, the whole way through. I saw the scene with him being shoved by his dad coming a mile off, but hell, if it didn't deliver.
Locke's a great character, I love him one episode, detest him the next. Like him, I'm still looking for answers, and I am dissappointed more often than not while watching this show, but this one did ok.
I'll go clean up now and fix us some dinner. I know, I know you're sorry. -
....way to ruin it for people. smooooooth.
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the sickness! it is coming soon for our losties
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I keep forgetting that not everyone watches at the same time.
Don't hit me! -
for lunch money at the clinic. No, actually I think it's just that watching Death Note gives me this incredible urge to have a witty duel. Sadly, I have to settle for you. Like I said, unless you start getting creative, this is going to get boring. And it just did. Enjoy the show, though.
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I hope you come down off of whatever mind-bending drugs you are on right now so you can pay close attention to tonight's episode.
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...I will watch this again, already. Starting now.
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and I've got LOST anticipation
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I'm sure that will be a burning question on here
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Poor Kate. Don't hate her because she's beautiful.
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two good mini-cliffhangers before the commercial breaks. Good sign.
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Locke has chewed his last bit of bubblegum.
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playing piano.
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There's nothing wrong with being arrogant if you have every right to be?
Use it. It's yours. -
where are all the Jack is a clone...Jack's been brainwashed idiots now...see h's not even playing them...he's going home
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or one of the top three. the jack/kate scene in the pool room. really beautiful, heartbreaking, fill in the blank.
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oh snap! That's the scene I've been waiting for!
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I can dream.
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Thank you Drew Goddard!
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just wait, it gets better...
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orientation or two for the road. best in season three by far.
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this is LOST's 'Martha Logan' theme. and I love it.
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John's dad is mean!
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Anti-climactic my ass. Makes Jack's tattoo episode look like an episode of "the Smurfs.
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AMAZING episode. Jesus.
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twenty minutes in and it's more shit than we've seen in eight episodes
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that was cooler than i ever expected. GAWD-DAMMIT!
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...and it broke his back. That was so hardcore. And so damn cool.
Locke's gotta find that box now. -
...just gets better.. wait for it.
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If that isn't foreshadowing, I don't know what is... Is Locke's dad the worst person to ever appear on tv? Stealing a kidney, killing a kid, pushing his son out a window?
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good as hell.
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i know where this is going.
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OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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haters be damned.
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BEST EPISODE EVER!!!
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I've got to call my mom and beg her to for Kevin Tighe's e-mail (They use to act together and I've met him several times, he's awesome). This is a big moment for the show though.
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Use a sock if there's no tissue. that's disgusting.
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The episode left me speechless. See you in the funnypages.
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Mar 21, 2007 10:00:50 PM CDT
JOHN LOCKE IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE LOST"S BEST CHARACTER
by charlie murphy
jesus that was awesome! the ending, the reveal... good god the dialogue between ben and john was pretty great as well.
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i am so smart! s-m-r-t!
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Does Berkley Breathed know about this?
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Amazing!!! Locke-centric episodes are usually the best
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The haters are nuts
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i missed the first twenty minutes. can anyone fill me in. besides that, that was one of the best episodes ever.
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The fall OR the guy tied to the chair. YOWZA! Lends serious credibility to the idea that Cooper is the O.G. Sawyer. WOW. Can't wait until they meet. Unless Sawyer dies next week? ...Naaaaah.
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locke's dad? am i wrong?
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and they keep coming back for more.
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Wow. Amazing. Incredible. More adjectives. It's been like answers galore tonight and last week. And what the FUCK is Locke's dad doing on the island? And what is this mystical box? Hot damn THIS is the Lost I've been waiting for to return.
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Damn.
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The newest addition to the fabulous Flying Wallendas, John "Boomer" Locke! Ta-da!
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I can forgive the Jack/Claire sibling thing, but NO FUCKING WAY is Locke's father there!
It isn't even quirky just crappy.
And Ben's story about his little power corner he painted himself into was utterly ridiculous.
Matter of fact everyones reactions are absurd by now.
I will say that the Sayid/Alex/Alex mom thing was nicely done.
But now Lost is totally fucked. -
maybe waaaay back? To use as a bargainig chip. Ben obviously has some kind of weird man-crush on John Locke.
question- anyone think Locke's name is significant?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_locke -
still amazed. Ben is the shit. such a manipulative bastard.
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you know I saw it coming...the whole "he could be anywhere in the world" forshadowing and then the door opening, but I TOTALLY expected Cooper to be standing there not beat up tied to a chair...wow...AMAZING episdoe...haters...welll I'm sure you will find something to hate about this episode but jeez...LOST...wow
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The scene where he was lifted to that chair and left there where Locke started crying was painfully hurting. Well, he can't toss him out of a taller building on the island, eh? I'd take his kidney back if I were Locke. As for Bai Ling, she's probably sucking on a lemon. Who CARES where she is.
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assuming there is a magic box. Not talking about Kate's nethers either, preverts.
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Just how much of what he said was really a lie, I wonder... Damn. I don't care how unplausible it is that they happen to have his dad tied to a chair in the basement, that was fantastic. How many conmen do we have now? Sawyer, Locke, Kate, Ben, Cooper... Jesus, this is going to get ridiculous. Cons conning cons to con other cons into conning the cons they want to con for them. YEA.
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BATMANUEL!!!
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Fantastic episode. Locke has regained his status as the coolest character on the show.
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So...Nikki and Paulo get killed next week, so we can only help. Paulo will be on the shitter, and bam, Smoke monster as a T-rex takes him out a la Jurassic Park. Nikki...can be killed by Spartans coming after Paulo
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Yes the names are significant.
Alpert was Tim Leary's buddy who found Eastern philosophy after mind bending.
Desmond Hume
Ben Linus suggests Charlie Brown Linus and Linus Pauling
James Ford- Jesse James/Robert Ford Sawyer/Tom sawyer
Rousseau, Bakunin yadda yadda
Writers must have had some fun working up names. -
(yeah, I am going to say it) the smoke monster? A box that when you open it gives you what ever you want? Doesn't that kind of sound like the smoke monster?
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Weirdly Spiritual Yet Whiny. Follows Own Course In The Middle Of Big Adventure. Evil Dad Issues. Evil Dad more than likely manipulated by evil-er frail guy. John Has Become... Locke Skywalker!
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I thought about that, but that presupposes that the Others are somehow in control of the smoke monster, which I don't believe is the case. Plus, it seemed like he was in captivity for a while, since people referred to him as "the man from talahassee". So I'm going to go on the assumption that it is indeed Cooper. Now I want to know HOW THE HELL HE GOT THERE.
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Have had a very nice run of episodes lately. This one certainly met expectations. Locke to me has always been the best character and this episode backs it up.
I think Locke's dad may have been on flight 815. He could have been in the tail section and then taken by the others early on. I don't think he just appeared in a magic box and I don't think someone left the island to abduct him. Even Ben was amazed at the coincidence (even if he is a manipulator..it could be genuine).
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it was yes unexplainable and convient unless...
the whole thing was staged to get Locke to the island.
Maybe just maybe Locke was on Jacob's list and just needed something to motive John from gatherer to Hunter
Remember the episode with the cop kid that for some reason reminded me of Giovinni Ribisi but wasnt' with Locke and the magic jesus stick
remember what it took to get Juilet to the island...to get someone to the island you have to strip them of everything they had, to keep them you have to give them a reason to keep them there...an illusionand actually I thought that Ben (btw did John ever call him Ben? He wouldn't have known his name unless Kate told him...but I digress) anyways I thought Ben's rational was perfectly logical and couteractive to Locke's logic. Look at what Alex said "he maniuplates people so he can get what he wants" You knew from the beginning that Ben didn't want Jack and Juliet to leave, he just needed someone to do it...a scapegoat if you will...Locke goes at things stright forward Ben maniuplates and gets others to do things for himBTW what kind of realtionship does he [Ben] have with Richard that he would say all that in front of him, Ben must trust Richard explicitly...perhaps another that was born and lived his entier life on the island? Ok now I'm just throwing stuff out here -
an other. She is still the fun, lovable, crazy, rifle wielding jungle chick she always was.
The funny thing is that Ben thinks he is in control and back on top. Little does he know that his little girl knows the truth about her mom and is gonna go for the throat. -
Locke is more psychotic than spiritual. All the shit he has been through drove him over the edge. Obviously he is self centered. He works to achieve his own goals first, and maybe someone elses second.
From the very beginning Locke has postured himself as a stereotypical outsider. Someone who goes his own way even if that means harming the frail community trying to survive.
If they have been on the island 80 days, some of the women should be knocked up. Unless the island inhibits that, except in "healing" cases.
Why would Ben lie about an ability to return to the island? Why would the hatch destruction and following EMP not unmask the islands location?
Why does Ben want to keep his "people" there? -
Locke was in the chair for 4 years . . . he fell 8 storeys . . . . his father's alias at this point was Adam Seward . . Might "Seward" sound like "Sawyer" to the ears of a young child? Let's face it folks - LOST just took off in a whole new direction . . . .
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that close up on Danielle as she finally lays eyes on Alex, great set up after the Sayid scene "you look like your mother"...just really really good...and that scene should settle any questions over weather or not Danielle is an Other...perhaps though Danielle is a "Hostile" I don't think Patchy was just throwing that out just reversing roles
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now that was something I hadn't considered...the Seward sounding like Sawyer thing
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The REAL Sawyer. I'll bet money on it! But why would the Others want him? Did they bring him to the Island after the crash or was he brought there after pushing Locke out the window? But he's there and looked scared shitless.
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Locke is beating Xenu in the talkback list which makes me happy
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Did anyone else notice the one beside the refrigerator looked like Hurley as a kid and the one behind Jack when he was asking Ben to let his friends go looked like Sun? Am i imagining it or was that an easter egg we were supposed to catch? Have have seen Hurley and Sun as children this season.
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How the hell are you doing carriage returns?
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I agree arcade. I think locke's dad is the real sawyer too. I still think he could have been on flight 815 perhaps.
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we just didn't know. in the first season hurley episode "numbers", hurley is sitting in his accountant's office, when outside the window, a guy goes falling past. now we know it was LOCKE! go check it out. and all those assholes who say the writers are making it up as they go along can suck it. they know what they're doing.
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Nice connecting!
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I think that the Others still can leave the island, they are not truthful people all the principals know that, so i think they still have a way of getting on and off the island...I'm beginning to think that Locke was set up to "come to the Island"perhaps this is a little too much of going Anakin with Locke but the Others know a lot about Locke and our beloved Lostiesbut seemingly more about Locke, I think he was meant to be on the Island, now about Coooper, obviously at one point he was in Talahasse and either a)attempted to screw over Ben or b)attempted to screw over another other and well you dont' do that thus retubutionnow what will that mean for Penalope? She has discovered the Island the Others (or at least Ben) and Locke don't want to be known...at one point will John kill her? hmmmmman, I'm getitng as bad as David on these things
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we had all agreed a long time ago that Sawyers con man was Locke's father. Was that last season?
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we did see a young (and thinner) Hugo "Hurly" a couple of weeks ago he was about 10 at the time at the beginning of that ep. When Cheech dad leaves when they are supposed to be working on the car
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I don't think it has ever been formally and canonically established about Sawyer and Cooper...kinda like the Claire and Jack stories, I think I remember hearing about that in S1...for S2 and finally got that connected last week
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that would mean that Hurly was living with his "bad luck" and "unlucky numbers" for 4 years which I don't get the impression of
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and I agree that the way they panned in to Danielle crying quietly in the woods was awesome. Poor Danielle.
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We also saw Jack's dad on the island. Or was that the smoke monster? Or maybe it was just somehow connected to whatever the smoke monster is.
I don't think they simply found Locke's dad and brought him to the island. That doesn't have anything to do with a "magic box". -
Locke fell out of an apartment building, not an office building. He was in his dad's apartment, remember? And I think they said in another episode that the guy Hurley saw fall was a suicide.
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fact: Ben Linus is either Juliette's sex-changed sister, or a sex-altered clone of Juliette's sister. fact: Jack's father is a major player, still very much alive...and Jack is a clone of him. Fact: it all has to do with clones.
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He couldn't let him leave, yet he had to keep his word. There are a lot of holes in that. For instance, didn't he let Walt and Micheal leave? Or was that Klugh's idea. Or were the circumstances just different. Hard to say.
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like the old philosophical story about putting a cat in a box, and it's both alive and dead at the same time...
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Locke fell out of a tall glassed building which i'm sure could house apartments on higher floors and businesses, such as accounting offices on lower floors, like tons of buildings in every city. and they never mentioned the guy falling in another episode...how would that even come up? look on youtube, i'm sure they have a video clip of him falling.
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Though it would have been a cool tie-in. Office building/apartment wouldn't mstter, however, as some buildings are both.
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I think it's because he NEEDS Jack he didn't need Micheal and Walt (anymore)
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It's not crazy, it's the only idea that could possibly make sense. I don't think the smoke monster "transforms" into people, I think it is something else more complicated. But this is no different than Yemi, or Christopher Shepherd, or the black horse, etc. This has something to do with those appearances. Something about this magic box... hmm...
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I think we can assume it's really locke's dad. The smoker monster manifestations are only seen by the character it affects. Locke's dad was seen by at least three characters from tonight's episode. And maybe Locke's dad was in the tail section and taken by the others early on.
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and she's about to take her medicine. (Her medicine is to shoot people.) Seriously, how (and when) will the sickness play int oall of this?
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I don't know of any example that proves the smoke monster manifestations are only seen by the characters it affects. And even if that were true, how do we know Ben and Richard saw the same thing Locke was seeing? If he was on the plane, I don't see what that has to do with either a physical or metaphorical magic box.
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Tonight's episode wouldn't be as pitch perfect if it wasn't for all the set up in earlier episodes that paid off. All the fucking assholes who bitch week after week should be locked in that room with Locke's father forced to watch Caruso on CSI Miami. This episode was brilliant. So many amazing moments. Kate seeing Jack play piano. Kate and Jack in the game room. Sayid telling Alex about her Mother. Danielle seeing her daughter for the first time. Jack's bewilderment that his ticket off the island just blew up. I'm sure I'm missing some of the amazing moments that filled this episode. I don't know how they are going to top this next week. I think I'm gonna go watch it again. And btw, I've never rewatched an episode of Heroes. Heroe's is junk food. Lost is the fucking 10 pound lobster.
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Lets not forgot - Rose is also keyed into the island, just like John Locke. After Locke joins the Others (and he will...remember that episode where he joined the pot-smoking commune because he's desperate for answers and acceptance?), he will have to face off against Rose in the Losties camp. That shit is Mother Abigail vs Randall Flagg style. Remember what Backgammon teaches us - "There are two sides. One light, one dark." And now we know that that means skin color.
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again..and like someone said it would have been cool, but it wasn't Locke that fell by hurly again unless Hurly was wealthy for four years which I don't get the impression of, I've always gotten the impresion it was a matter of months between winning hte lottery, discovering his bad luck, and going to Australia
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no it'll be Locke vs Hottie Exposition Girl who discovers she's really Rose as a skinny hot white girl after Bernard/TASG gets killed...that's what TASG is always crapping because he's finally regularI'm kidding of course
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Everyone on here last about how Jack was a clone or brainwashed or timewarped or whatever. I told you guys the answer was simple, he was just passing the time. No reason to lock him up since he WANTS to stay with the people who are going to let him go home. Scroll up and see my earlier post today. It is possibility number 5
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The coffin was empty, remember. Jack's Dad is still walking around. There's a lot of things on the island that might be able to induce halucinating visions...but that doesn't mean that all visions on the island are hallucinations. No one else saw Yemmi or Dave, but Sawyer saw the black horse.
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But that would imply previous episodes were not as great. I think all the episodes are equal because they are all part of a larger story. Tonight's episode was just a big payoff moment in the story so it felt like a better episode.
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Fuck you, Lost...I need to go to bed.
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Yeah, I remember the coffin was empty. But Yemi's body was found. Then later, it was missing. So what does that mean? Are we supposed to think the smoke monster reanimates corpses? Who the hell knows.
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Biggest payoff in a TV show ever.
Hardest ownage of these gay ass haters that come week after week and flame this show. Fuck them, Lost just gave them the massive finger
Now, this was hands down the best episode this season. I can't believe what I just saw. Michael Emmerson as Ben is as brilliant as ever, the scenes with him and Locke were golden. The seeds of doubt have been sown for Alex, it's gonna be crazy when she learns out the truth about her mother. I loved everything about this episode. Anthony Cooper is one evil bastard.
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The smoke monster has appeared to more than one person at a time. Sawyer and Kate both saw each others visions. A horse and a boar.
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Yeah, they mentioned a couple episodes back (the Hurley ep) that the guy he saw falling killed himself. Not Locke. Wish it was, though, that'd be cool.
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You're right. raingod mentioned that too. I only recalled yemi, dave and jack's dad (if that was the smoke monster). Forgot about the horse.
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Seriously, that may very well be the best twist Lost's come up with in two seasons. This episode, more than any in recent memory, convinced me that TPTB do indeed know what they're doing. Thank fucking God. I love this show.
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The Others fall within a spectrum between Ben and Jack. Ben is an Other through and through but Jack is just a guy who was conned into helping. Juliet was also mostly conned so she is closer to Jack's end of the spectrum. Tom is probably closer to Ben's end of the spectrum. So there are probably Others in the middle who choose to be there but are also being subtley conned into being there. Ben has the big job of maintaining order.
So if Ben would have prevented Juliet and Jack from leaving, it would have sent a BIG message to the rest of the Others. It would have told them that they are not as free to leave as they thought and chaos would have ensued. Ben couldn't just kill them or blackmail them either or it would have had the same effect. So I can now see exactly why he needed Locke to blow up that submarine. He didn't plan it though, not until Locke showed up. He was lucky. -
I had that very same poster in the 80's, it glows in the dark :) Quite cool.
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The oft speculated upon "wish power" arises again. I don't think Ben was was being completely allegorical when he told Locke about the magic box. I suspect that the recurring theme of free will vs. predeterminism (noting again the philosopher names being used) and ultimately how to channel this power is the key to everything. A few episodes ago, Desmond came to believe that he is trapped in a loop and is powerless to change anything. Desmond appears to be doomed by predetermined action, first in punching in the numbers all that time and now by finding himself reliving events he believes he can't change. Charlie ultimately will pay for it. Hurley, however, finally overcame his trap, the curse of the numbers, and used "positive thinking" and his own freedom of will to start the van. That the numbers ever had any power is indicative that they emanated from the Island, possibly sent out into the world (unintentionally?) by someone tapping into the wish magic. Is there some person or entity ("Aaron" or Smokey) that Ben and the Others are seeking to wrest total control of ths power away from? Given the hints of Walt's abilities before coming to the island, his potential use in this endeavor by the Others is clear. Is Locke now the answer? He has healed himself, come face to face with the monster, induced visions in Boone, and does have an obvious "communion" with the island. At the points where he lost faith with the island and the power hidden somewhere thereon, he has lost the ability to walk and been forced to endure a "sacrifice", with Boone being the casualty for his weakness. It can even be speculated that the reason the Swan hatch imploded was that those present, including the last minute re-conversion of Locke, had all brought into the belief (i.e. acquired faith) that some force would be unleashed. When Mr. Eko, who previously was at peace based upon his inner faith (not necessarily in the religious sense, but more of a faith of purpose) and had no fear of the monster decided he was sick of being manipulated and told Smokey off, he was summarily killed. Based on these examples, it almost seems that there is a petulant, very childish nature to whoever or whatever is wielding control. On the other hand, Ben may be able to subtly tap into the power and thus get what he wishes by manipulating others to do... YIKES! As I was writing this, I realized I was almost describing the plot of Michael Crichton's book, Sphere. Oh God, there was also this X-Men/Alpha Flight series where people were unwittingly tapping into a mystical Norse energy to make their wishes come true, with a cost - much like the Others' apparent inability to reproduce.
O.K. Scrap that. So, maybe they are trapped on the event horizon of a poweful gravitaional singularity, such as a black hole... -
Do you remember those dot-to-dot puzzles we used to do as kids? Lost is a lot like those puzzles. The writers entertain us with stories, and within these stories, they lay clues; let’s call these clues the dots. You are supposed to connect the dots to see the picture. People aren’t doing that with Lost. They have to have absolute confirmation. Their little hints are not enough for people so they end up changing the channel. Last week’s episode and this week’s episode was just confirmation that we were right when we connected those particular dots. It was rewarding and done very well, but we already knew these things. Mind I am not complaining, because both episodes were awesome.
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That's a neat idea about the man falling outside the office window being Locke. But still the timeline does coincide. Remember Hurley's old boss at the Chicken Shack still worked there when Hurley bought it. That is, until the meteor hit. So one assumes that at some point later, Hurley felt bad for him and gave him a job at his box company where Locke was hired. So yeah, Hurley had won the lottery four years earlier. Oh yeah, and awesome ep. I also agree that the scene of John being put in the wheelchair, the filming and the acting, were amazing. Very moving. And Ben (the actor) is amazing.
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Brilliant. I still have Breathed's compendium books, love Binkley & Milo doing the "US Festival." :)
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Neat little reveal. We don't see him in his first scene, but there he is with Ben and Locke at the end. Nice connection.
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great way to describe LOST
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I did and it was goddamn confusing but one thing I did get from it is that the narrator spends the entire time looking for a black box he thinks contains money from a robbery. really though it contains a substance called omnium a substance that is described as everything one desires.
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hmmm..imagine a box, that when you open it gives you what ever you want..hmm..like a genie..or a Jin..In Malaysia, western Indonesia, and the south pacifc. Jins are a race of demons with four toes..who live in the earth. These demons are fallen Angels, led by Lucifer Morning-star, once best-beloved of God, now cast down into the Lake of Fire...and 'locked' in a pit for a thousand years..only to be released and chasing a woman heavy with child..., ah, losing or mixing my religion..
Those demons who concern themselves with humans at all, hate humans for being (they suspect) favored by God over the angels. Was not God's own Son born to a human woman?
The demons wish to assert their rightful rule over all the earth, crushing the upstart humans, and destroying their souls. The demons want to make the humans worship them instead of their Creator, offering corrupting gifts and pleasures as a reward for that worship, at least at first.
"What has God ever given Man?" ask the demons. The demons will raise them to their true place, or so they say. In the hearts of many demons, that true place is as miserable ants crawling beneath the rule of the demons.
Other demons see the potential in humans, and would either recruit them as allies in the war against Heaven, or else wish to dissect them in order to learn the secret of their power, which is a reflection of God's power, since it was humans and not demons who were created in his image.
Yet other demons wish to force the humans to revile themselves, admit that they are as evil and corrupt as the demons themselves, to prove that God doesn't really love them. In general, demons hate any human they can't exterminate, or any angel who remains unfallen, but even so, many demons retain a perverse sense of honor, or perhaps, irony.
"I was born on this island.."
"You name is on the list"..
"so, imagine a box, that when you open it gives you whatever you want...
*Ben wants a Surgeon... and one falls from the sky
*Those in the plane wished they wouldn't die...and they survive.
*Jack wishes he had one more momnet with his father... and his father is standing there.
*Walt wishes for polar bears and a father to save him..
*Rose wishes for her husband..
*Locke wishes to walk..
*Desmond wishes for a second chance with Penny
*Ecko wishes for punishment...
*Charlie wishes for H..
a very unifying theory..and right and proper brilliant if carried to a logical conclusion..for with the wish there are always two depending variables needed for the wish to work correct. Selflessness, and price willing to be paid..
very exciting treatment..but
...who or what killed the pilot and why? And when does Barbara Edn and Magor Healy appear. Great Tv. -
Interesting. Very interesting, indeed.
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But let me add how the "magic box" works. Quantum physics, science, mathematics. Controlling fate with a mathematical equation - the Valenzetti Equation. I really like the theory that the Others are trying to "undo" a "wish" made with the Valenzetti Equation. It makes the universe "course correct" itself to make these coincidences happen. I've been going with the theory that the "Incident" accidentally made a wish, and all the things that have happened since then are the universe "course correcting" that wish into happening.
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That is all.
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So did the just guess that when john opened the door he would see his dad tied up? are they tricking him? I think John is gonna pull a marcellas Wallas on him...... when john is finished with his dad, when he shits hes gonna feel like hes throwing a hot dog down a hallway.
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Either path traveled, Faith or Science..will be a remarkable journey to unremarkable destination. good stuff
It's all starting to come together..if you brain game the permutations of 'the reveal' in this episode.
Wiki has a great article on the Genie, but best part I gleaned.."Genie is the English term for the Arabic جن (jinn). In pre-Islamic Arabian mythology and in Islam, a jinni (also "djinni" or "djini") is a member of the jinn (or "djinn"), a race of supernatural creatures. The word "jinn" literally means anything which has the connotation of concealment, invisibility, seclusion and remoteness. In English it may be loosely translated as Ghost."..and.."For the ancient Semites, jinn were spirits of vanished ancient peoples who acted during the night and disappeared with the first light of dawn; they could make themselves invisible or change shape into animals at will; these spirits were commonly believed to be responsible for diseases and for the manias of some lunatics. "
Hellloooo, Vincent...Mr. Smoke Monster..but the concept of the Jinn (or Jin in Oceanic culture)..is, in my course of thinking, just another simple explanation for that which a humans have no perceptual ability to conceive of in it's praeternatural state of being..OTW, we don't know what..we don't know
So, your addendum is good..cause when science finally goes over that last mountain on that remarkable journey..science will find 'God' in whatever form that may be..was waiting there all along..
Them writers gots into da good weed the week they wrote this episode, mahn....endless paths to take on the journey now.. -
What you're referring to is not a 'philosophical story', it's a thought experiment from quantum mechanics called Schroedinger's cat. In short, the cat is in a box and has equal chance of being dead or alive. As soon as you open the box, the cat will die so there is no way to see if the cat is alive or dead. Therefore the cat is considered to be in both states (alive and dead) at the same time. It's a thought experiment derived to reflect the issue that with quantum experimentation, meerly observing the results may chance the physical state therefore there was no way to determine what a state was, so it was considered to be both states at the same time - which is a paradox since how can the cat be both dead and alive at the same time. I doubt this has any application to the 'magic box' Ben mentions, which I think is a bit of sarcasm to foreshadow the fact that they already have his father.
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That line made me laugh my ass off.
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the other expensive whiskey that Desmond's wife's dad was drinking?
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I don't remember hearing anything about any major characters going?
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Except there's no rule that the cat must die when you open the box - the whole point is that until you open the box, the cat is both alive and dead (at least to you, the observer, and to everything outside the box). Once you open the box, the quantum realities collapse (all the realities containing a dead cat and all realities containing a live cat) and you get either a live or a dead cat. But it's one or the other when you open it, not necessarily "dead." That would be really unfair to the cat.
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it's not a paradox. The cat being both alive and dead at the same time is not a true paradox (which would be something like "what happens if I travel back in time and kill my parents before I'm born?") but an illustration of the collapse of a particle's wave function. Since the cat is made of particles, the event is basically a massive collapse of quantum realities just to show how it might work with something more tangible in people's minds than a photon or electron.
If Everett's Many Worlds theory is proven correct (and I believe it will), it just illustrates that all possibilities exist at once, and because it's supremely efficient, the universe won't "pick" until it's forced to by an observer, when the collapse into "one" reality for that obvserver. Simple. ;) -
"The man from Tallahasee" That ben asked for. Ben knows so much about the survivors, and what has happened to them... Who's to say that he didn't track down anthony cooper in the real world and bring him here, hoping to use him to manipulate locke. Either that or the island really does create what the people wish for... or are afraid of... I avoided the talkback all night so that I wouldn't be spoiled and I have to say I wasn't disappointed. Locke's fall was startling and simple, but pretty perfect, and the final reveal (though I sort of guessed it moments before we saw it) was a great "holy shit" moment and did indeed seem to be an Alias season 1 finale shout out. To be honest I thought people would bitch about how his falling was anti-climactic but I'm glad to see that this episode was so well recieved.
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Since they introduced some sort of time travel couldn't that be an explanation for Locke's dad?
Juliet tells that guy that she wishes her ex was hit by a bus he knows he'll be in the middle of the road and bam some how gets a bus to hit him.
Ben says get the man from tallahassee to the same guy he manipulates time or whatever he does and gets him on the island. Gotta be something there right? -
Anyone notice the dharma food stuff in ben's fridge? I was getting the impression the others were seperate from dharma.
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So there *is* another way to get to the island, which means there's another way off it too.
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would have posted much earlier, but i just picked myself up off the floor from the retards that continually insist that "the writers are making it up as they go"
stop suckin on ur mommas tits and get over it, the show aint revealing things to your pleasure so theyre making it up right ?
oye, get a hobby -
This episode was pretty good, but I'm not so sure about Locke's dad being on the island as a good idea. I hope they have a really good reason for all this. I mean, there doesn't seem to be any real logic or science to any of this. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to see myself on the island, picking up driftwood on the beach in the background somewhere. I'm afraid they're gonna go down the same path X files went down.
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I was wondering what the black and white scenes were in next week's promo so I paused and slo-mo'd. It looks like an island flashback to when Charlie pulled a hood over Sun's head and dragged her into the jungle. That, taken with Sawyer saying "so are you going to tell Jin" makes me think that he's finally going to come clean about it being him and Charlie that staged her attack and not the others. She said she wasn't going to tell Jin because then they'd have to dig another grave. Does that mean Charlie's dead and Jin would kill Sawyer too if he knew what had happened? Or does she kill Sawyer (it looks like she hits him on the head) and doesn't want Jin to kill Charlie? Or is it just a craftily edited preview that makes you think something big will happen when nothing really does? Maybe Locke's dad or some unknown character will be the one to die.
Also, I might be crazy but I paused and advanced the scene where Locke's dad is in the room and it looks like he's missing his arms. I guess they could just have them tied behind his back, but usually you'd see at least an elbow or something. It looked like his sleeves were just hanging there empty. If Locke actually wished him there, and he lost his arms that would serve him right for taking John's legs from him. -
That's what it is. They've been alluding to it since the first season, with the hatch, then hurley asking Locke what he thought was in it--"Hope. I think hope is in it." And remember Leonard in Hurley's flashback, after he tells him he used the numbers to win the lottery_--"You shouldn't have done that! You opened the box!"
Since the first season they've known where tehy were going, at least with this story line, I'm so glad to see it used. -
Amazing. Simply amazing. Definitely for all the people who've abandoned Lost for Heroes...fuck off, Heroes is lame and doesn't have the heart this show does.
Great revelations tonight, and yeah...there's no way the sub was the only way off the island. But obviously Ben could make Jack and Juliet believe it was, and by having John destroy it he'd get rid of the only obvious way off. So it worked perfect for him. And did you notice the guy that Ben was using was that guy from Juliet's flashback? That's the first time we've seen him on the island, isn't it? Did he just get to the island, do you think, or what? If he did, I guess he brought Cooper with him and in that case are they using some sort of portal? Interesting. -
It sounds great. Lost is kick ass.
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Re: Schrodinger's Cat and the multiple universes. I made a film as an entry for On The Lot (didn't make it to the second round though) that you guys might dig. It's called "Schrodinger's Bedroom" and it's at http://films.thelot.com/films/16382
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everyone knows that right?
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That glass gave way a little too easily...
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Next week the others bring TASG to the "magic box", and when he opens the door there sits a gold-plated commode and a lifetime supply of toilet paper? Iconic indeed.
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I've really enjoyed the show and it's a shame that the network, or the writers, thought that they could get so many seasons out of it (seven seasons?!). After last night's episode, it's pretty easy to see what's been going on with the island since the beginning. Once the "mystery" of the island has been solved, the story can wrap up pretty easily. I've loved this show and happy to have some of the answers. I do not want to see it go on forever. The format of this show will have more validity and inspire MORE great stories/series if they wrap it up sooner than later. I'm not necessarily saying that a telenova format is what I'm describing, but had the producers announced a 3 year story arc, the audience would have been there and built over a three year period (in anticipation of a big ending). Instead, even though the writers did have a plan from the beginning, it seems that they wanted to stretch the story out as long as possible. Prediction: The cost of production will NOT be justified by the ratings over next season and the show will wrap up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not "hating" here. I'm making a suggestion for future shows based on some of the faltering that's happened with LOST. I think INVASION would have been much more successful had the network announced that the show would only be on for a specific length of time. The big enemy out there is reality television. I cringe everytime I see another American Idol (or Dancing With the Friggen Stars)season do so well in the ratings that shows like LOST get moved around. Don't laugh it off. Oh, and quit the HEROES v. LOST shit. They're both great shows. HEROES will have longer legs, however.
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if no one can leave or find the island now because of the annomolly, does that mean no more Dharma food drops. TASG better ration the last of the TP then. hes gonna have one hellova chaffed asshole.
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I imagine they be replaced with stronger glass, thus allowing a "Hudsucker Proxy" moment the next time a father tries to push his son out the window.
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I am going to guess that the "magic box" was just a misnomer, but who knows. BTW, that Scotch was totally the same brand.
In the "beating a dead horse" department - Hey David L.L., you went back and looked for screen caps of the red blotch tattoo so you either just wanted to prove me wrong or you thought there was something to it. Regardless, you should admit that the makers of the show seem to have made a conscious effort to hide that "other" tattoo. Hell, they made an episode around the famous tattoo and had other characters on the show talk about it, but the red blotch has been completely ignored - until last nights episode. You said it yourself in your search through the screen caps. The shot of Jack and Ben at the wheel chair was seemed like the very first time they let the audience see it. -
Why does Locke no more about the island than Ben? "Because you're in a wheelchair and I'm not." Fucking awesome. I have to say that Locke was a badass in this episode. Every line and every mannerism showed he was in total control.
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That was a decent episode, overall, but they've officially put Locke in the easily manipulated douchebag category, pretty much for life. And that pisses me off.What I liked about Locke's character (for most of the show's run so far) is that the flashbacks depicted a different man than we knew on the island. In many ways, a weaker more ineffectual man (and not just because he was in a wheelchair for some of those flashbacks).Locke is really the only character I've gotten a sense of rebirth from on the island (except maybe Sayid, but his rebirth/redemption as a character hasn't been as drastic, magical or intriguing). But now we know that however clever/crafty Locke thinks he's being, he's always going to be one step (or more) behind the guys trying to take advantage of him.As well written as the episode was, I don't see Locke's character recovering from the damage the writers have done to him. It will take a whole lot to get me to respect him again.
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as BOBA FREAKIN FETT IS TO EMPIRE!!!
We know nothing about Takes a Shit Guy, other than the fact that he has a badass GF, and that he likes to take shits.
Wait a sec....MAYBE TAKES A SHIT GUY....IS BOBA FETT!!!???
How awesome would it be if there were millions of clones of TAKES A SHIT GUY!!!?? -
Is it real? Wht exactly did he say about it again? I got the sense he was speaking metaphorically but with this show who knows? Everything about this episode kicked ass. Brilliantly written and relaized. Sayid to alex: "I'm sure that's what they told you." Gave me chills. and I almost lept out of my seat when Locke's father pushed him out the window. What a prick. And Locke's first placement in the chair was heartbreaking. Can you imagine how much Jack wanted to tear Locke's balls off after he blew up that sub? Fucking great episode.
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MAGIC BOX
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Locke was in total control? Did you watch the same episode I did? He did precisely what Ben wanted him to. He was even warned by Alex that Ben manipulates people in a way that they think it's their idea to do something.
And c'mon, people. A magic box? What's next? Fairies and pixie dust? Rainbows and unicorns? -
Ben said he was born on the island, and all the other others had come by "invitation". In a previous episode he said he'd always been there. If Ben was born here and never left, why? He knows there is an outside world, why has he never left the island to see it? Anyone (besides me) get the feeling the Other's, and now the Losties, are Ben's play things? Why does this remind me of a Twilight Zone episode? And where are all the haters this week? So many questions, so little time on my hands. ;->
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I know this seems far fetched, and the Others would no doubt check the wreckage (wouldn't they?) but doesn't anyone else find it weird that when Locke got on the sub he was completely dry, but when he was back on the docks he was soaking wet? What if he just blew up the end of the dock, and moved the sub away? I know it would create all kinds of logistical problems (how he submerged the sub and got out of it without flooding it, unless it had one of those pools inside that lead out). Anyway, it's just a theory!
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If you don't agree then you ain't watching!
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What sense does a small disel powered sub make over a ship?
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I got the same impression. We already KNOW that Claire learns what Charlie did to Sun. So I'm guessing Desmond decides not to save him anymore because of it, and that is why Sun told Sawyer about "burying another body" because Charlie was already dead. I mean, we DID see a grave (a NEW looking grave) in the preview.
I dunno. At least that's what the promo led me to believe. -
...The Talahasee Man wasn't there for Locke. He's there for another Losties wishes.
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Or so it looked. When Kate came in to confront Jack, who was playing the piano, and the Others burst in to captured her, the first guy who came through the door looked like him. His face wasn't able to be seen because his gun was in the way and then they only show one more glimpse of him after that. But he had the same pushed back haircut as Michael and same build, and the only thing that assured me that it wasn't him was a lack of reaction from Kate or Jack so I suppose it wasn't. Very strange though how similar he looked, you guys should go back and check and tell me if you agree.
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Or so it looked. When Kate came in to confront Jack, who was playing the piano, and the Others burst in to captured her, the first guy who came through the door looked like him. His face wasn't able to be seen because his gun was in the way and then they only show one more glimpse of him after that. But he had the same pushed back haircut as Michael and same build, and the only thing that assured me that it wasn't him was a lack of reaction from Kate or Jack so I suppose it wasn't. Very strange though how similar he looked, you guys should go back and check and tell me if you agree.
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I also thought that Locke didn't really destroy the sub. And as for "crafty" locke, whoever said that. isn't it growth for the character if he's finally one-step ahead of the people who are trying to screw him?
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in next weeks episode is Nikki's. she gets bitte nby a spider an everyone thinks she's dead.
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...is Vincent Vega.
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...showing my dismay with the island of incredible coincidences. But after reading the talkbacks here, there are quite a few interesting theories floating around. I'm still intrigued, if the writers of this show could be so imaginative.
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Anybody notice how comfortable he felt in there? He turned on the lights like he knew exactly where the switch was. If I got into a dark submarine, unless there was a lit up panel that blinked "LIGHTS!" it'd take at least a bit of fumbling to find it.
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Andrew Divoff, who was the Djinn in the AWESOME "Wishmaster" movies, played Patchy. Looks like the casting department's totally in on the direction that the show is heading.
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Damn nicknames.
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When Ben tells Locke the box story, it was along the lines of "Imagine there's a box..." That's how the island works. Whatever you wish for, the island grants. But it comes at a price. I love the poster who suggested the "genie" theory (as in, the island grants wishes a la a genie) and the other poster who suggested that DHARMA made the "ultimate wish" and everything that's happening is because of that wish.
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For blowing up the sub, blowing up The Flame, and whacking Sayid in the head. Even if someone came to rescue them, couldn't he just refuse to leave. Ben said he wanted to stay on the island because he was "it was the only place his father couldn't find him".
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I have a weird guess that just hit me like a ton of bricks:
I have a feeling Ben Linus only has four toes on each foot. He is of this rare breed of human being that is native to the island.
I bet this will be an eventual reveal on the show.
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I thought it was next week's episode, thinking next week's was the 13th episode but that was last night. Was last night really a gamechanger?
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when I opened it up, it would have had Goth Claire sitting there chained up with black fishnet stockings and no panties.
Bottom line - great episode, great three episode arc, and the show is gaining some momentum again (finally). All I can bitch about now is the damn 10 pm start time. -
I would agree that the power of the speculated "magic box" would be more in the nature of a manipulation of past events (pulling quantum strings) to bring about certain results in the present than "poof" creating something out of nothing. This would go a long way towards explaining the numerous past "coincidental" encounters,etc. of the Losties, which, as fun as they are, would otherwise be pointless. The course correction brought up by Dapper Swindler would point to a convergence of all the people ultimately needed for what is coming, with their paths crossing over and finally coming together on the Island. For example, Juliet mentions a bus hitting her husband, and somehow that necessary trigger to bring her to the Island occurs. Fortuitous accidents happen when you have a magic box. Thus, Locke's father is probably there because the island's web of influence, aware of Ben's/Locke's coming wish to bring him there, caught him up as he sought to evade the authorities. So instead of just walking out of a box or materializing instantaneously, maybe Cooper's boat or plane out of the country in the past was drawn off course and brought him there for when he was needed.
And speaking of coincidences, Googling the name of the ill fated Peter Talbot uncovered this: http://www.future.org.au/award2006/speakers.html
(Pertinent excerpt - "Dr Peter Talbot is the MD and co-founder of the Very Small Particle Company, a nano-materials manufacturing company based in Brisbane")
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Charlie was reborn. He isn't using anymore. Sawyer is on his way to rebirth. Jinn has definitely had some improvements. Hurley has been reborn, not unlucky any more, and he has dealt with Dave.
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Good one. I think you're right actually. That would make sense. The island grants wishes. It's the box.
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People. It's already happened. It was the Desmond episode. Before that episode there was really know proof that time travel was part of the show and now that Desmond has it opens up a whole new can of worms. And the producers even said that after that episode people would either be in for the show for the long haul or never wtach it again. That was the "gamechanger."
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First off, that was a great ep. And with it being Locke-centric combined with that mind fuck of an ending naturally results in us discussing all of the Locke mysteries of the episode.
But something that I don't think has yet been brought up is the appearence of Jack with the Others at the start of the episode. We already knew that Jack had made a deal with Ben to escape the island with Juliet. But does that neccesarily account for his playing football, shaking Ben's hand, and acting more friendly than usual to Juliet (I'm speaking of the instances when Locke, Kate, and Sayid were watching Jack from the bushes). It could be that Jack was simply playing along with the Others - by that I mean acting friendly and agreeable simply as a means of saving his own ass. Or, perhaps Jack is simply making the best out of an odd situation. After all, as fucked up as the Others appear, they did in fact provide Jack with shelter, running water, and a nice little piano. It seems that there is more here than initially meets the eye.
When Kate finally confronts Jack in the game room, he starts to explain that, well, he can't really explain to Kate what happened to him since he allowed for hers and Sawyer's escape. I'm betting on a Jack-centric episode sooner than later that will explain things. I just can't see Jack making a sudden shift from holding Ben hostage on the operating table to throwing around the pigskin with his new Other-buddies. It seems that the Others did something to ease Jack's nerves...perhaps Ben explained their purpose on the island? -
Island life should be getting alot harder soon, i was under the impression that there are going to be no more pallet drops seen as they destroyed the communication station the flame. Also was that pallet drop that the losties got only a miss drop or do you think it was planned for them ?
Reason why i am pointing that out is that the was obviously the hatch had to stock up but was it called from the hatch or the flame ?
Anyway the island itself does have some kind of power locke and desomond (possibly) being the most intune with it. Dharma was proberly investigating its source while the hostiles trying to destroy there hold over the island.
I want background info on dharma inititive and what there experiments and general purpose was on the island.
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...specifically "his rebirth/redemption as a character hasn't been as drastic, magical or intriguing" and multiply it by five. Now apply it to the character rebirths you mentioned. That's pretty much how I feel about them.Sawyer should've had a rebirth by now, but I honestly don't see his character changing now if it hasn't already. It would feel very contrived at this point.Charlie is like George Carlin or Chevy Chase. He may be clean and sober now, but he's far less interesting.Hurley's bad luck is gone because he fixed a van? That episode still angers me. And with or without bad luck, Hurley's the same guy he always was.No, for me, Locke has always been the horse to bet on (except for briefly during Season Two, when it looked like Ecko was getting the truly remarkable character arc...until they unceremoniously killed him off), and now he's been hobbled. You know what they do to lame horses. right?Now my two primary interests on the show are Paulo and Desmond, for dramatically different reasons. Desmond's story has become very interesting this season and Paulo is one of the most cleverly conceived characters I've come across in a long time. They'll keep me watching, but they won't make watching Locke any easier.
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There is definitely something going on with it. I rewatched the scene in the beginning where locke is scoping him through the binoculars and for a moment the camera makes a purposeful gesture to bring attention to the tattoo. Soroy if this has been said before but has that tattoo always been there and they were just showing us it was the "real" Jack or is it something else?
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Good idea about Ben, but I was thinking he was bare footed when the Losties captured him originally. Wouldn't they have noticed that?
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That is all.
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I may give you Jin, as he's definitely a different guy than he was when the series began. But I'll be damned if I can recall just how or why that happened, which speaks to how intriguing his character arc has been.Locke's always been the most interesting horse in this race (except for that time in season two when Ecko's character became so compelling and seemed destined for dramatic change until they unceremoniously killed him off). Now the writers have hobbled Locke. And you know what they do with lame horses, right?As of now, Desmond is the one keeping me interested in the Island mythos and Paulo (still, I think, one of the most cleverly conceived characters in the history of TV) is providing the side of entertainment.
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Hard to say. It is worth noting that Locke didn't attempt to subdue Ben as he left to destroy the sub. Why not? Surely he thought Ben would call his goons to stop him. Unless he knew better and Alex just confirmed his suspicions by warning him. On another note, I hope we don't have to sit through more scenes of the losties as prisoners in cages for another few weeks.
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I mean, he already had the C4 and was clearly wanting to blow the sub before he even spoke to Ben. So someone explain to me how it was Ben's idea for Locke to blow the sub?
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I think Locke wasn't being manipulated just because when Alex warned him he pretty much blew it off. He was like, "I'll keep that in mind." One could argue that maybe it was just arrogance on his part, and it could have been, but I think Locke knows and controls more than he lets on.
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There is really a box that has stuff in it, either there is its proberly a computer with the internet and a ghosted credit card :)
No i think locke just so happened to save ben with his little plan to blow up the sub. -
.... Michael Emerson for Rorschach. Can't you see it?
"I'm not locked up in here with YOU. You're locked up in here with ME."
Gold. -
Step One - you cut a hole in the box. Step Two - you put your #ock in the box. Step Three - you get her to open the box.
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...the preview for the next episode..."what if someone tells Son?"..."Then we will have to dig another hole."
LOST...I missed you. -
I don't think it's Desmond. Desmond's flashback was referred to as something they'd never done on the show and never will do again and that could turn some viewers away. The gamechanger was something different, I thought. I also thought it was going to be in the Nikki and Paolo episode.
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It's sort of always been there, but it seems like they have been intentional in not showing it off until now. It's a pretty big tattoo, yet the only one ever discussed or even made episode-centric has been the ones on his upper arm. Who knows. It seems obvious that they are trying to get the audience to see it now, and just as obvious that they didn't want it seen before.
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he was all wet when walked down the pier. maybe a previous poster was right about him moving the sub. he sure did know exactly were that light switch was. damn i love this freakin show.
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but, he will only die when he ALLOWS himself to die. In all of Desmonds visions, Charlie dies trying (unsuccessfully) to save claire or at least make her happy. I'm thinking when he finally does die, it will be to necessary to save Claire's life, and he'll do it willingly.
Ever since season 1, Charlie's thing has been that he hasn't been able to take care of anyone, flashbacks AND on the island, and he's always out to prove it and he usually fails (though he did save aaron in S1). Off topic, but it just occurred to me. -
How else could a polar bear from Walt/Hurley's comic book appear? And now Locke's Dad? Or what about Eko's brother's body? Box is a cheap metaphor brought on by lazy writing.
Oh and just for those who keep arguing about the questions if the writer's have it planned or not... Of course they don't have it all planned. They may know some things like the Jack/Claire and possible Sawyer/Cooper connections. But not every detail is planned out. Look at how they don't go back to certain holes like Walt's apparition in the forest and Rousseau stealing Claire's baby. Maybe this season is starting to change that, they are answering past issues (like next week with Charlie's kidnapping of Sun). Hopefully, this trend will continue. -
I think Locke's motivation is a sense of guilt for blowing up the Swan station. He thought it was all a lie, but when the station went haywire after he failed to type in the numbers he realized he had "let the island down." He feels guilty for his lack of faith in the island, and as repentance he is now destroying anything that would allow the island to be discovered by the outside world. He feels if he can "protect" the island this way, he will serve adequate penance for his past "sins."
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--some bullshit the writers came up with to keep you watching. I can see them laughing in the conference room right now.
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loved the episode,while i realize that locke has dealt with some fucked up shit,i do understand his wanting to never leave the island,but looking at it from the point of view of his fellow castaway's,locke is responsible for destroying 2 shelters(3 if you wanna live on the water),2 food sources,2 sources of running water,2 pc's,record player,many books,film reel player,manuals..maps,oh yeah,a FUCKING SUBMARINE..the lists goes on,he is unstable,and untrustworthy,and dangerous,he has done more to destroy the quality of living of the crash survivors then any other' anything wrong,with building your own hut,and living there..even if a rescue team shows up? "no thanks,i could'nt even walk until i got here..i'm staying" the end,nope,he decides to ruin everyone elses chance at rescue,i have found locke guilty of being a menace to society, i sentence him to being locked to a palm tree until rescue,i would say tie him to his wheel chair,but did'nt that get ruined in the first shelter he ruined?
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next week, he's on a toilet doing his thing and a posionous black widow spider bite him on the ass and kills him. you heard it here first.
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Locke wasn't being manipulated, it just happened that Ben and Locke both wanted the sub destroyed (albeitfor different reasons). It wasn't as though Ben slipped the idea into Locke's mind. Locke was planning on it for days.
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Do you guys still think that the chess game was what blew up patchy's house, or did he use the c4 to blow it up himself? If so, what does the chess game really do? Just throwing that out there.
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At ALL? Did you pay attention? Rousseau heard the others say that they were coming for the boy, and she assumed they were talking about the newborn baby boy. She took the baby because she hoped to use it as a bargaining chip to trade this new child the others wanted for her kidnapped Alex. Turns out, however that the newborn wasn't the "boy" they were talking about. It was Walt. How is that a "hole"?
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a)seperate from the group, and live by yourself as a hermit
b)help your fellow survivors try and find a means of escape, but still opt to stya on the island, once you've found it.
c)be a compelete and utter bastard and blow up the only chance you and your fellow survivors have of leaving the island.
BTW, i thought this epsidoe was actually pretty good
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Did you come up with your theories independently? I am in 100% in agreement with you and have been trying to explain the same ideas to people dozens of times. However, you've articulated it a lot better than I have in the past.
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Because Sawyer wants him there, not Locke. Locke's afraid of the man, Ben called him on as much last night. He wouldn't want him on the island.
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I think we pretty much have a clear idea of what this means. People that the island will communicate with. People who have a certain personality (not being angry, and other stuff Mikhail said) that the island chooses to talk to. Many of the Losties have seen some images, but Locke has seen more than anyone because the island likes him. And when Locke "lost his way" the island even made Eko try to help him find it again. The island healed Locke instantly, while it won't do the same for Ben. Locke and the island are best buds and Ben is jealous because he has been on the island his whole life. Or is the island using Locke as an avatar?
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Do we even know that guy is actually Locke's father? Are we assuming that just because they were a kidney match? Just putting it out there.
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It's a 'Lock' Box. Sorry. I couldn't help it.
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then why did Ben ask for "the man from Tuscaloosa" ? Did the smoke monster need to be calibrated to appear as someone ? Is Ben and The Others somehow able to manipulate the smoke monster ? It seems to me that from Ben and Locke's discussion, there is something miraculous about the Island itself, which wouldn't make sense if it was something Ben could control. Besides, if the Smoke Monster is the Island's manifestation, how does that explain the fact that the Island has provided "non-human" wishes to people ? For instance, Charlie got two things he wanted (a guitar and heroin), Walt got his dog, Kate saw her horse, Hurley got food. I'm totally confused ... but in a good way :)
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Fucktastick. Proof that those "Others"-douches aren't in control.
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They can't sit together because the last pair of tickets is picked up by a young married couple. Overhearing that Boone & Shannon can't get on, the wife turns to her husband and says "See, if you gone to the crapper, we'd have missed this flight." YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT. YOU CAN FEEL IT, CAN'T YOU?
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I'd like to chime in that I'm on board with the surviving sub theory (it came to me this morning).The 2 clues are that Locke came back wet and that he realized (I think before detonating the c4) that he was being manipulated. He did seem like he knew his way around the sub and he & his friend at the box company referred to each other as if they were in the military. Though they were not at the time I don't think that was just a coincidence (or that they were just playing strategy games).
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"*Ben wants a Surgeon... and one falls from the sky"
they already had a surgeon..his name was ethan,he was shot and killed by charlie -
Okay, using what I've garnered from posts here and wide (and adding my own spin to it) I'm guessing there is an Event in the future that just might destroy mankind. This was predicted in last summer's "Lost Experience" by Hurley's cursed numbers, the Valenzetti Equation. The Dharma Initiative was brought to this island because of its, well, basically, undisclosed-as-of-yet scifi/supernatural properties. I'm guessing the Island, perhaps even, more specifically, the metaphorical "magic box", can make the Initiative's changes in the values of the equation manifest (that is what the DI is there to do, again, disclosed last summer). How can they change the Values? By course correcting the past. Desmond's episode wasn't really JUST about time travel. It was a hint to how the Initiative has found a way of changing current realities by going back to the past. They may need people like Walt (and obiviously Mrs. Hawking) who seem to be able to enhance and/or direct this power (Walt didn't "create" the comic book polar bear coincidence. He just "allowed" it to be). What I'm theorizing happens is that these enhanced Others step in the past and then SHIFT SHIFT Locke is pushed out the window. SHIFT SHIFT. Kate kills her father. SHIFT SHIFT. Sawyer's father kills himself. These things did not happen "before". But because of the combined abilities of the Island and these Walt-like-people the shifts change things, pushing each Lostie closer to boarding that plane. To what end? I'm guessing to save the world from the Event predicted by the Valenzettie Equation.
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Haven't read all the tb posts, so, maybe it's mentioned. Ben said the sub was the only way to get back to the island, or get off the island? Bullshit. If you can drop shit out of a plane onto the island, you can parachute ONTO the island, or you could EASILY land a fucking helicopter on one of the many "fields" that seem to populate the island, like where Hurley and company pushed hte car down, or where Kate, Locke, and Sawyer found the sonic wave killer thingy they used to off Patchy.
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And we never saw him set the C4. God damn if it doesn't seem like he has another plan. The only question is, what blew up? Just part of the dock? Does anyone have a still of the explosion? Can we see what was blown up? I so want Locke to have fucked over Henry... The writers know how beloved Locke is. I think they know what they're doing.
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Jack says "I'll come back for you" to the woman who betrayed him. IF that ain't some crazy Jesus Christ mojo I don't know what is. Jack and John's relationship is becoming the heart of the show I think. John expressed sincere admiration for Jack near the beginning. Then John goes and blows up Jack's ascension vehicle. There's some crazy damn theology in there somewhere. Another thing--why is every father on this show more evil than the one before? Somebody running this show has some real issues.
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So last night was absolutely sweet. Figured "dear old Dad" was the cause of Locke's injury, but still was "wowed" when John flew out the window. And the Others, especially Ben, seemed much more like actual people. As for the sub being blown up or not...I'd guess that it is now just parts in the lagoon. John has shown he's prone to do things to prove something...to himself, the Universe, the Losties, etc. regardless of the outcome. This seems to be one of those situations. Now, I'm curious to see how long "Dad" lives next week. If it were me, I'd be using the Rambo knife like a Ginsu chef on crack. I'll be real disappointed (or amazed) if the producers come up with some reason for this guy to continue breathing.
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Has anyone heard Natasha Bedingfield's song "Wild Horses"? That song really reminds me of the episode where Kate saw the wild horse in the jungle. The horse representing freedom and a new chance at life.
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That Chris Carter is a fucking genius, I tells ya!
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First off, nice Seven reference Ashoko, I found myself yelling (in a whiny voice) "What's in the Box?" at the television screen last night. Second, I think the magical box is definately either the smoke monster or the island itself, not some actual box or doorway. The smoke monster may give people what they want, Jack- to see his Dad again, Locke-A look inside the island/ answers,Ecko-maybe he wanted to die because he could not forgive himself or something. Also, I remember an episode from season 1 or 2 when Locke was trying to get Charlie to quit using drugs. Locke told Charlie that "this island has a way of giving you what you want...but you have to give up something for it" once Charlie handed over the drugs he looked up and his guitar was hanging from a tree. Interesting. And last nights episode kicked so much ass, and Ben is so fucking awesome! He had a line last night that rivaled his "if I were one of them I would draw a fake map..."speach from season 2,it was when he said "I will let them go...as soon as you leave this island"! Very creepy and as soon as he said that we knew Jack was not getting off the island any time soon. Awesome epeisode, god I cant wait until next week.
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If it really was him I would like to see Locke and Ford beat the living piss out of him, but I don't think that will happen. If it did happen then the two of them would be killed by the smoke monster... probably.
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Does Ben say: "What if I told you that somewhere on this island, there was a box..." or does he just say: "What if I told you that there was a box..."? Anyone have an exact transcript quote?
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Alot of the TB's seem to be convinced that the smoke monster is in fact behind the strange "hallucinations" we often see on the show; i.e. Kate's horse, Jack's dad, Eko's brother, etc. I think the idea is most certainly intriguing...but I'm not sure if I quite buy it. After all, there were several times when the smoke monster appears simply as the smoke monster; ex. the Eko episode from season 2 where it simply appeared and had a staring match with Eko. Charlie saw it as well, but as a cloud of smoke. Not to mention the brief appearence it makes in the finale of season one. Once again, it was seen as a cloud of smoke. Why would this mysterious smoke monster appear as a person or animal int some cases and a man-killing cloud of smoke from hell in other cases? Thoughts?
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I was thinking about this as well. Then I realized that if all communication to the island is lost, that is why the submarine would not be able to return. This would also mean that no more planes will be dropping off food anymore, since they have no way to navigate to the island now. It has never been mentioned how often a plane drops food on the island, and the losties have been there for what, 90 days? They've only seen the plane once. I don't think anymore food will be dropped off now, since the implosion of the hatch.
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Sure they could land a helicopter or fly a plane in to pick everyone up, but they have NO COMMUNICATION ABILITY, so how the fuck are they supposed to call for an airlift outta there?
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Am I crazy or did anyone else notice at the end of this week's and last week's episodes, a brief and small "hiccup?" Like right before they show the previews for the next week's episode. I though it might have been just a technical thing on ABC's part the first week, but when it did it the second week, at exactly the same time, I got suspicious. Anybody else got anything on this?
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of people having doubts about the sub blowing up. Why would he be wet unless he put the c4 on the outr hull and that doesn't make sense. Strange indeed.
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Are you watching in HD? If so, it cuts from HD to standard broadcast right before the "Scenes from next week" as they don't broadcast the preview in HD. That could be what you saw.
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Then, what? He wants to fuck with Ben and achieve the upper hand? I can see that, but how could Locke fake blowing up the very fucking sub that the others allegedly depend on?
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As soon as I saw that he was wet I thought something was up. The question is, did he actually have enough time to move it and was the sub still there in the shot looking over Locke's shoulder just before the explosion. It would be so awesome if he was actually trying to do something heroic instead of dasterdly, but I just don't know.
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How could he fake blowing up the sub? Are the Others that stupid? I think not! They would know if the sub was blown up or not. All this is just crazy talk....gah!
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Just trust me. Now go use your speculative energy on important stuff like trying to figure out this "magic box" ooooooh
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Maybe Locke was wet because he had to get into the water to get into the sub? Just becasue we didn't see it on camera (it could have been edited) doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Such a compelling part of seasons 1 and 2 were the contrasting ideals held by Jack and Locke, the two guys you could argue as the genuine leaders of the losties. This season, we couldn't see that dynamic since the two were seperated (Jack chilling with the Others, and Locke hanging out back on the beach). But once Locke apparently blew up that sub, he and Jack share this brutal fucking look. The whole man of science/man of faith theme just got a major jump start.
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I think Arcade Firman is correct (great name by the way)
I watch Lost in HD using a projector and right before the next week previews, my projector displays that it is now in 480i when during lost it was 1080i. -
You're point makes perfect sense, except (and correct me if I'm talking out of my ass) Locke is clearly dry when we see him in the sub.
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Last night's episode has been by far the best one of the season in my opinion. Sure, Locke getting thrown out of the window and then seeing his "father" tied up were a bit predictable, but didn't detract from the overall impact of the Locke's story.
It did indeed answer one big question of how he got in the Wheelchair, and showed that Locke has not been a bumbling idiot in the past few episodes, but that he knew exactly what he was doing.
Now, new questions (just like lost to answer one and reveal several more right!) Did Locke conjure his father by will alone, or did Ben and his cronies hunt him down and bring him to the island, seeing how they know every minute detail, including Locke's daddy issues! I think they knew he would be a crucial part in seducing Locke, why not bring him to the island (and by the looks of it, I don't think he was brought willingly) Also, did Locke really blow up the sub, or is it an illuion on his part to make Ben believe that it succumbed to his will? Yeah I know these have been asked already, I'm just pointing out what I liked about this episode and glad to see that it was in great form, reminded me of some of the best ones from seasons 1 and 2! Way to go Jack Bender! -
I'm confused about this too. Wasn't it the lock down (in Locke Down) that caused the food to get dropped? There's only been the one drop right?
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I am still of the theory that there are two different monter/supernatural beings on the island. When Locke realized that Eko had seen the monster he said, "i saw it too, it was beautiful wasn't it," or something and then Eko replied, "that is not what I saw." Any thoughts on that idea?
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Knowing Locke and his penchant for tripping or falling down, he probably slipped and fell into the water when getting out of the sub. But regardless, wet or dry that sub was blown up!
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I don't think Locke's dad just popped out of a magic box. Rather they used the magic box to "coincidentalize" him to end up on the island by pulling the quantum strings of fate (as Net Prophet put it). But think about this, maybe Walt had a hand in this. Maybe while Walt was captive, they used his extra-special lucky powers to make Cooper get to the island somehow. This is part of the catalyst that causes Ben to walk to the Lostie's camp to find Locke - but he is caught by Rosseau. The timing makes sense.
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They can leave, remember Walt and Michael took their boat. They just can't find their way back. the polar bears were in the cage Sawyer and Kate were in.As far as teh box, it fits in with more nanomachines. Scientists and scifi writers have speculated on a box that could build things molecule by molecule as well as 3D printers that would make objects similar to how printers make 2D objects.
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And if Locke stops and thinks, Ben can show him things he wants to see very badly.Then Ben offers to explain it in a way Locke will understand.He tells Locke to picture a box.Locke knows something about boxes, doesn't he?Somewhere on the island is a large box, and whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted, would be inside the box.Locke makes a joke about it, and calls Ben a hypocrite.If Ben knew what the island really was, he'd have more respect for it.
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Just to clarify further, the Polar Bears on the island were not manifestations of Walt's mind, they were there all along. Part of what the Dharma Inititive studied was climate adaption of Polar Bears in a tropical climate. So the bears were brought by Dharma not from a Comic Book.
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I totally think the "box" is a metaphor not an actual box on the Island. The Island itself is the box.
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unless it was just wicked hot, Jack's shirt was soaked around the neck as if the brief walk from the shanties to the dock were a marathon run.
If The man from Tallahassee was, in fact, IN Tallahassee when Ben said he wanted him, it was mere hours that they fetched him from Florida to somewhere in the South Pacific. Magic Box indeed!
It makes sense that he was there already, but for how long, and why. -
or not. Just a simple yes or no will suffice. It's just something that bugs me.
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He had to have pushed it or else the Magnet would have destroyed everything. There is no other explanation.
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Mar 22, 2007 1:39:24 PM CDT
I don't think the box is exactly the same as the island
by dapper swindler
Because Ben said "somewhere on this island is a very large box". Maybe the "very large box" is a computer. Remember when Homer went to college and got an A in nuclear physics with "the help of a little magic box". Or maybe the box is something else. But I'm sure it is some kind of structure or instrument, and of course describing it as a "magic box" is somewhat metaphorical.
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There is no magic box on the island. The whole island is the box. Think about Ben telling Jack how he needed a spinal surgeon and all of a sudden a plane crashed on the island with one of the best spinal surgeon's in the world. It's those kind of events that the island causes. As for Locke's father, I'm not convinced he wasn't on the plane. He could have been one of the tailie's who were abducted the first night.
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after the crash. Once Ethan & Goodwin got the info on each of the survivors and relayed it back to Ben, they were able to use their contacts back in society to research everything about them. I can't think of anything they knew about Locke that wasn't public record (foster care, the kidney, the attempted murder). They want Locke on their side as he has a "relationship" with the Island. So they tracked down Anthony Cooper and brought him to the island so Locke could torture/kill/whatever in return for his loyalty to them. Just a theory?
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There's this island. Evidently, there are at least repeated, or somewhat regular contacts wtih people on/in the outside (ie, your's and mine) world. And they come every so often and dump shit out of a plane and let it fall down onto an island. So, there are SOME people who "know" where this island is, because they've flown planes there before. So, even IF comm is down, those peeps will eventually get around to thinking "You know, we haven't had a call to drop shit on that island in like 6 months, they usually call every month, what's the deal?" and then begin to go looking for them. And I don't see any reason WHY they couldn't find them again, UNLESS, the island somehow physically moves.
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We are thinking that both explanations are true at the same time. Walt didn't imagine them out of thin air. Rather he pulled the quantum strings so that the universe would create such a coincidence that the Dharma Initiative would be studying polar bears there. So both are correct in a way.
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"picture a box somewhere on this island" not "there IS a box somewhere on this island". Total metaphor.
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But the bears were on the island long before Walt crashed there. Dharma had been doing experiments since the 1970's and Walt crashed in 2004. So I don't quite understand the whole pulling of quantum strings theory. But it sounds cool as shit!
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...that it is the BEST DRAMA on television!!! I just returned from my honeymoon, so I wasn't able to watch the last two episodes until this morning. WOW! This show just raised the bar for serial dramas! I cannot wait until next week!!!
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the time machine in "Primer"?
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Yeah, I realize that the polar bears were there long before Walt had any thoughts about polar bears - but that's just how it works. Time is not a factor, fate is operating in the fourth dimension.
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"Picture a box. You know something about boxes, don't you John? What if I told you that somewhere on this island there's a very large box. And whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted to be in it, when you opened that box there it would be."
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for those poor giant hamsters producing electricity for the others in their secret underground lair.
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He submerged the sub before blowing it up. He didn't want shrapnel tearing off his head. Thus, when he left the sub, he swam toward the surface. Now, he still could have moved the sub so that it didn't blow up, but the fact that he's wet doesn't prove that fact at all.
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it looked to me that the explosion happened at the end of the dock. not where the sub would be. if he didnt move it, the only thing i could think of why he is wet, is the producers did that just to get people talking like they did with the numbers. but as it goes in most shows or movies, if they dont actually show it,(meaning locke placing the c4) its might not have happened. also zeck is kind of stupid as is, and could of just excepted the sub blew up. just a thought though
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Any equipment you might use to discover it would be affected by the magnetic anomalies that surround the island. That sonar was the only beacon they could use to get back and it's destroyed now.
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The only way he would be dry would be if the sub were not submerged. But, if the sub were not submerged, you would be able to see whether the sub blew up.
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perhaps a hatch? "somewhere on this island there's a very large box"... Like a room. Or a building. Ben only used the word "box" because Locke knows "something about boxes". I think the box is a place on the island, not the island itself. Ben's words are important. Had he said "somewhere in the world, there is a box", I would say the box is the island, but he said "somewhere on THE ISLAND...". An important distinction.
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Excellent episode! I've never been one to lose faith in "Lost"...I think people just need to have patience with it to let the story unwind at the pace the producers intend.
As for Locke's dad at the end. There's a couple of theories I have. It's been brought up before that Jack saw his dad on the island and Kate saw her horse...so it's possible the island, which we know has a "smoke monster" able to peer into people's psyches, can conjur these images up.
More likely, however, is the idea that Ben needs Locke on his side, to look into the heart of the island and heal. What would convince Locke to stick with the Others? What if he thought the island could conjur up his dad? So what if Ben and the Others, upon learning that Locke was there (they know enough about the survivors, it seems) headed to the mainland and kidnapped Locke's dad as a ruse to get him to join their side? And I think it's a fair bet that Locke's dad IS the original Sawyer, which will make things interesting when he and Sawyer finally meet. -
When Ben sent Michael away, he told him he'd never be able to find the island again, even if he wanted to. Which makes the island difficult to locate, even if you were there and at some point thought you knew where it was. Maybe without communications, The Others can't send out the location of the island, so no more food drops are possible.
Also, the lockdown didn't cause the food-drop, as someone else stated. The lockdowns probably were cause BY the food drops, so the people in The Swan couldn't see or communicate with whoever made the drop.
The lockdowns initiated by Kelvin and Desmond weren't part of the regular routine, they were just done so they could paint their rad blastdoor art project. They had nothing to do with any food drops.
And finally, there haven't been any food drops (that we know of) since the anomoly, so I suspect that with no food drops, no communications, Ben's sickness, and the arrival of Jack, the status quo of The Others may be in a state of flux. -
Is shrapnel REALLY that big of a concern? Locke was on his way away from the dock, anyway. I think he submerged it so he could make it LOOK like he blew up the sub. But maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. I just wonder what his reasoning is... And, knowing that Ben wanted the sub blown up so badly, one would think that might give John pause. He certainly must be sick of being manipulated by him, and even though they wanted the same thing, i wonder if knowing what ben wanted wasn't enough to get locke to do just the opposite.
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Yeah, that isn't a bad theory at all. Of course, as with everything on this show, one possible answer just leads to more questions :). It does make sense though. Locke is clearly the guy who gets his jollies on island mysteries and punching in strange numbers, so if a freakish cloud of smoke appeared in front of him, he'd probably see it as beautiful. Meanwhile, Eko, although a man of faith, was still a practical man, and most likely saw the smoke monster in a more literal sense. Of course, this still doesnt account for Kate's horse, Jack's dad, or Eko's brother appearing. Something that people perhaps forgot is that Christian Shepard was not in his coffin when Jack opened it way back in season one. Wonder what that's all about?
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well if he can submerge the sub then why cant he move it? huh?
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I doubt it's as simple as moving a car into another parking space.
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I was looking at your ID and subject and mixed them up.
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Glad to know there are people of a like mind out there. I've spent way too much time on various websites ingesting other people's thoughts to claim 100% original credit, but it is gratifying to see my labored attempt to consolidate different threads (the Numbers, the cross-overs, the philosophers, Desmond's "time travel", Walt's powers and importance, etc.) into an all-encompassing theory is appreciated. The "wish power" is something that a friend and I discussed in season one, particularly focusing on Walt's mysterious powers and the comic book/polar bear thing. Walt sees polar bear in comic book, polar bear appears on island. Now isn't it interesting that all those years ago, DHARMA brought polar bears to the Island? Another mere coincidence, or a "course correcting" event taking place in the past to account for the present? In any event, one thing the Walt business immediately brought to mind was the “It’s a Good Life” Twilight Zone episode (where Billy Mumy sends people that displease him to the cornfield). As I posted earlier, other inspirations that I remembered along the way reflecting the Lost group dynamic were the "Sphere" book and the X-Men/Aplha Flight comic that touched on similar themes; i.e. multiple people being able to unwittingly tap into a wish fulfillment power at the same time, with varying degrees of success and often harmful results. After the twists and turns of the past two seasons, I was stunned to hear Ben suddenly discuss this wish idea that had been one of my first theories of what the show might be about. That is what finally inspired me to organize my thoughts and put them into writing. Maybe (probably) my ideas are way off and the writers are laughing away at the red herrings they lead us around with and the absurd ideas we come up with as a result, but half the fun of this show is the speculation and the inspired ideas I've read coming from other fans. And for all of the other wise guys out there mocking the "box" - no I don't think there is a literal six sided box out there that Ben was referring to. Then again, "Cosmic Cube" for any of you Marvel Comics fans out there? Could DHARMA have been attempting a like experiment that wound up in the wrong hands? Wow, sitting here writing just keeps the ideas flowing. Thanks again Swindler.
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I missed your "wish theory" - care to summarize? It sounds interesting.
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So if Hurley wishes for Libby to return from the dead, she will? What if I wish for Sun & Claire to go down on each other, will it happen? THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!
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yah im sure its not simple. but he sure as hell new exactly were that light switch was, so maybe he knows how to opporate one. if he can submerge the thing like laslo said, why cant he move it.
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The fact that Locke was wet was unremarkable. Of course he was wet; it's clear that he submerged the sub. Now, the question becomes -- why did he submerge the sub?
Did he do it to avoid being killed by schrapnel? After all, he's not that far from the sub when the explosion occurs? This seems possible.
Did he submerge the sub just for the heck of it? This seems unlikely?
Did he submerge the sub and the move it as a ruse to make the others believe that he blew it up? Again, this seems possible, although don't you think that the others would at least do a decent job of making sure that their only means of egress (as far as they know) from the island is gone? -
I think the scene with Eko and his brother just before he (Eko)died was definitely the writer's way of saying that the smoke monster can take other forms without actually saying it. When the smoke monster is hostile it probably stays in its original, smokey form. When it is trying to manipulate, though, it switches forms. But I still think there are two different creatures/beings just from the distinction made in that covnersation between Locke and Eko. As for Jack's dad being out of the coffin, who knows. That is actually one episode I would like to revisit on DVD.
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I hate it when work interferes with things. Dapper Swindler, you got the polar bear thing out before I did - good job sir. Think it is mere coincidence? Maybe we should replace the phrase "magic box" with "quantum puppet strings".
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The camera pulls back to reveal the Island, and then the continent, and then the world, solar system, galaxy, universe, and finally a marble which a child is playing with....
Then, the words "Lost" gets emblazoned on the screen. -
I'm a simple man that enjoys simple pleasures like Lolipops in my mouth and butter up my ass, so I don't quite follow the "quantum puppet strings" thingy. Somebody care to explain in easy to understand terms?
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It's a good point, and one of the reasons why I don't buy Locke staging the explosion. It wouldn't seem probable that he would have enough time to sumberge and move the big fucker, swim away, and plant the c4 somewhere else. It was interesting, as lofe pointed out, that Locke surprisingly moved with ease inside the sub. Locke did mention something about being a Navy commander to Ben...was he being sarcastic, or is that a Locke-detail that I've forgotten about?
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and if you can get your head around the theory of that movie you have unlocked the island and what it basically does. Same concept, bud.
It took me a while to figure it out, but it's all playing out very much like that eh. -
Only pretending to blow up the sub, that is? Plant the C4 on the dock, then move the sub, then swim back to the dock, then detonate it? Or leave the C4 on the dock, move the sub, then swim back to the dock, then plant it, then detonate it? Or take the C4 with him, move the sub, then plant it, then detonate it?
All of these plans would seem to have flaws, especially considering that Lock knew to expect Jack and co. to be coming to the dock pretty soon. -
Mar 22, 2007 3:00:35 PM CDT
How could Locke stage the blowing up of the sub?
by talkbacker with no name
madness. what are you talking about!?
What did he do? drive the sub away and just blow up the water?...don't be so silly. -
Well we know he liked to play military games, and though he was confined to a wheelchair, he because a pretty skilled hunter simply by studying it. I don't know... The jury on this sub will be out until AT LEAST next week, but most likely longer.
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If it had been that entire group on the dock would have been soaked by a wall of water pushed out of the lagoon. And you wouldn't have seen the fiery explosion we did either.
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Come on people with capturing software...come through for us!
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Do you mean to say that the whole sub was just sitting there on top of the water? Of course it wasn't. I'm pretty sure that it was 100% submerged, but it was at least partially submerged.
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the "can't find the island." You'd know that you flew x minutes in y direction from whereever your base is in the real world. SOMEONE could/would be able to track your PLANE'S movment on the mainland/our world whatever. Just repeat the flight, and viola, the island is there. Like I said, unless the island moves. If it's physically in the same place each time, at the same long/lat coordinates, then your path from your home airstrip to the island, will be the SAME each time.
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"I'm a simple man that enjoys simple pleasures like Lolipops in my mouth and butter up my ass,...."................... Colonel, is that you? Long time no see. How's prison treating you?
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Yeah, I mentioned that Locke moved quite well in the sub and found that light switch lickety-split.
They also bothered to go through the exposition of Ben saying how complicated it is to move the sub around - AND Locke's reply "I could've been a Submarine Commander for all you know"
I'm betting that exchange had a purpose. -
Whatever it is, you don't need to be near it. As someone above corectly pointed out, Crazy Leonard's reaction when Hurley used the numbers and won the lottery was "you opened the box!" Incidentally, buying a lottery ticket would suggest that you WANT lots of money. The universe is organised by these numbers which seem to have something to do with the island. The numbers, the island and the box are all connected (they might even be representative of the same thing) and people with an affinity with them seem to gain a degree of control, or get what they want (see Ben, who gets a spinal surgeon as soon as he needs one, a way to keep Jack/Juliet on the island, and is possibly the only person there who has a daughter). Now I'm quite sure that if you go back and look at most oddities experienced on the island, they could be attributed to the above (oversimplified) box/island/numbers theory. Perhaps the island is something like the site where the universe originated (or was ordered) and thus acts as a sort of throne for the gods? Because it's pretty clear that fate is a big part, what with everyone being connected and events also occurring off of the island (see Juliet and the bus). Hell, maybe it IS a pseudo-scientific (but also largely desserted) Heaven that suffered conflict. Because not everybody can be in a position where they get what they want: there's always a conflict of interests eg: the others verses the survivors. This inability to give everybody what they want might come into play when you consider the numbers preventing the end of the world.Oh yeah, and I agree about an upcoming twist: Locke's dad isn't there because Locke wanted it: he's there because Sawyer wanted revenge because he is indeed the real Sawyer.
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it as more evidence that it wasn't the sub that exploded, because if something submerged or partially submerged in water exploded, it would have caused a fucking tidal wave.
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Maybe Locke DID ruse the sub blow up. Remember, Alex was quite a bit of foreshadowing with the "My dad manipulates people to get them to do what he wants, that's what he does" or whatever it was she said. That was on the WAY to the sub. Maybe that convinced Locke. to make ben THINK he got what he wanted.
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week since the shitty Jack Gets a Tattoo episode. And the setup is there for lots of good stuff ahead. I don't know if it's been mentioned, but yesterday announced they've renewed LOST for next year. It looks like 22 episodes starting in January, so 24 style instead of the fall miniseason that didn't go over well. Works for me, I'd love to see them just decide to make season 4 the last one like the writers have proposed, and let the show go out with a bang.
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Yeah, chocolate trees and icing sugar moutains. A real paradise. I'm an idiot...
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One thing is for sure, if he didn't really blow up the sub, the others would know it pretty quick wouldn't they? There would have to be wreckage and surely they would look. So, we should know for sure next week if they are still focusing on that side of the island. Of course, Locke could have used the magic box to clone a sub and actually blew up the clone. He probably then gave the keys to the REAL sub to a polar bear, which drove it to the garage where the VW van is also parked. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is what happened.
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Don't think this has been mentioned here, only that he probably is Sawyer's "Sawyer"--
'Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward is an anagram for "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad".
Whoa. -
...in last year's finale, the two crew people at the polar station seemed to act like the island could not be located due to the magnetic field produced by whatever the hell was under The Swan. This is also what caused Sayid's compass (and presumably other geo-locating equipment) to not function correctly in the vicinity of the island. When The Swan went boom, those looking for the island were finally able to do so by tracking the strange magnetic anomoly, and they gave Penny Widmore a ring.
Now, the same anomoly that destroyed The Swan and made the island detectable also destroyed The Others' beacon and communications. So, whoever was conducting the food drops (who I don't think had anything to do with the two guys at the polar station, and weren't necessarily watching intently for an anomoly to guide them to the island, because hey, we got us a beacon!) face a bit of a Catch-22: They'd be able to locate the island through conventional means if they knew where to look, but without the beacon or communication systems, they don't know where to look.
or something like that... -
I used to think the the unique electromagnetic properties were what actually implemented the numbers/wish on the world. The same way a lottery ticket allowed Hurley to implement his wish on winning the lottery. But now that the hatch imploded, they have no chance of changing the fate of the world.
Also, I think the Incident accidentally made a wish/created a fate for the world. And since then, the universe has been course correcting itself to bring about that fate. And what we are seeing on the show are the final months before this fate is realized.
The plane crashed on the island, and everything else that has happened, needed to happen in order for the universe to realize this fate as part of a cause and effect chain. The characters on the show NEED to be on that island and they NEED to have their personalities so they make certain decisions. That's why the flashbacks are so necessary. They have been shaped by the experiences of their past so that they will eventually do certain things on the island that will bring about whatever wish was made about the fate of the world.
And this is tricky to explain: that's why there are so many seemingly inconsequential relationships among the characters in their pasts. Because these coincidences are the very beginnings of the course correction. From our perspective they don't seem to be necessary to cause anything to happen, but the universe is working in ways more advanced than we can observe. -
Locke has daddy issues.
Jack/Claire same thing
Both Koreans, and we met both dads.
Alex
Kate
Hurley
The surrogate dad created from Sawyers rage that made him who he was.
Desmond and Penny's dad. -
what about hiro's dad,and claire's? oh wait sorry...
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According to Lost Spoilers, Paulo will be shot in the head.] Source: SpoilerFix BuddyTV Spoilers Chat
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All this silly pseudo-physics talk is making my head swim.
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also played as Shannon for Boone. All bloodied and then dead. It isn't really so far fetched when you have seen that episode. Mikhail acknowledged the smoke monster in the last episode. Is it so far fetched to think that it works with the others? I may be wrong, but it is possible. Ben described a magic box that gives you what you want. The smoke monster sort of does this. It reads your mind and gives you what you want.
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Cooper is definitely Him aka Jacob (Lindelof/Cuse confirmed Him and Jacob are the same). There's no reason Cooper couldn't go by the name Jacob. The thing with him being tied up is a setup to fool Locke. They are gonna feed him some bullshit like the Henry Gale story. ALSO, I think Cooper is Alvar Hanso (just check the film in Orientation, that's Cooper in the window) but the Hostiles probably don't know that.
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am i the only one whos first reaction to his being wet was "oh, guess he attached the bomb underneath the sub" ? cuz yeah, thats what i figured, i didnt question or find it odd that he was wet. we see him go inside so maybe he just checked to make sure nobody was on board. might be wrong but yeah.
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How do you know where you are? How do you map a path to coordinates? Even the most basic methods would use at least a compass, and the compass doesn't work. In fact, all the equipment on your plane or boat would begin going haywire. How do you find the island, then? How do you even know what direction you're going in if all of your equipement doesn't work? Sure, you could try to navigate by the sky, but otherwise you're eeF'd.
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If he's jacob I'll be pretty damn disappointed. There's nothing that suggests he has such power/connections.
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I thought Locke was just sweating a lot after he had been handling powerful c4 explosives and strapping them to the sub.
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wish I hadn't looked, though, i did know that that person wasn't going to last much longer- they said as much.
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ACCORDING TO WHAT RODRIGO SANTORO SAID TO BRAZILIAN ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE.
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The reason why he found the light switch straightaway is that the makers didn't want to film a scene with Locke wandering around in the dark with his hands stretched out in front of him, comically bumping his head into walls and dials and shit.
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The "So did Locke really blow up the sub?" debate is to "The Man From Tallahassee"...
As the "So Juliet's sister is really a man?" debate is to "Not In Portland."...
As the "So Tom is gay?" debate is to "A Tale of Two Cities" -
One, as someone said, by the stars. Two, if you have flow it before, you'd know that you flew x minutes, on a heading of y degrees from your base. Once you do it once, you could do it without even looking at your nav systems. And, don't you THINK someone would have plotted this out, ESPECIALLY, since the "only" way to find the island, is from the beacon? I mean, pilots aren't fucking dumbasses. They'd know "Hey, you know when we fly these drops, all our instruments go fucking haywire. I wonder why that is?" And then someone would say, "Imma chart the heading and flight time from the base, and it should be the same, every time." Like I said, unless the island moves. I mean, if the island is 'there' as it would have to be to allow them to even find it WITH the beacon, then you could fly over it without the beacon, by sheer accident too. I know if I was a pilot flying these drops, and my instruments were all fubar each time, I'd make damn sure I'd know where I was going by other means than some beacon, to use as a backup.
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It actually makes a lot of sense. I am re watching the episode now. Locke did see something different (bright and beautiful)than Eko(dark and ominous). Thanks for pointing it out guys. I missed that dot. ;)That makes it (them) even more interesting.
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And unless the mangetic field whateverthefuckitis, extends all the way to the "mainland" or wherever the planes take off from, then your compass should work when you take off. Might go fubar a few miles away from your airstrip, but you SHOULD be able to get your initial bearing from there. After that, it's all academic. Hell, if it fucks up your watch too, you could just ask your buddy on the ground at the mainland how long you were gone, and divide by 2 to give you the approximate flight time. PLUS, if there's a beacon on the island, and that's "all" that guides in the boats/planes/subs, then how the FUCK do the planes find their way back TO the mainland AFTER making their drops.
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You can easily fly off course wihtout realizing it...In a boat or in the air, water and wind currents affect your path, and even if you're flying what appears to be straight, you may not be flying the exact heading you were when you left. You have to keep course correcting according to your instruments to stay on course. It's not as simple as just setting it to autopilot and you'll find it. Even if you thought you were going straight, with only clouds and ocean beneath you, how sure can you be? What are you gonna do, autopilot? What happens when autopilot goes haywire as you get close to the island?.
Just like if you put a car on cruise control, there's no guarantee it will go straight forever if you take your hands off the wheel. Outside forces affect vehicles.
As for finding their way back to the mainland, Ben explained that if you followed a certain compass heading, you'd get out of the anomoly last season. -
If your instruments are fubard.
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and find it every time. Instruments be damned.
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but how accurate is navigating by the stars, really?
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the island is somehow invisible from the outside world? What if it's only visible when you get close to it?
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You don't get a fireball if an explosion is underwater. You just get a big splash. Ergo, the sub was not submerged when it exploded. Reducto ad absurdum et cetera
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This and the last episode have been good, too bad the first half of the season was so fucking boring. And some of you use waaaay too much hyperbole. BEST EPISODE OF ANY SHOW EVER OMG!!!!!!! You must not watch much TV.
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I think that's the longest it's ever taken me to catch-up on the talkback. I started reading where I left last night almost an hour ago. And only maybe 5 posts about how bad Lost sucks and that the writers are making it all up. A new record! Ok... Sooo... First things first: Locke fell backwards, dude in the building in "Numbers" was face down. #2 - Why does Kate's horse HAVE to be Smokey? We know there are horses on the Island. Is one black horse really that different from another? I'm not saying it isn't, but it's not as definitive as Yemi, who in my mind is the only DEFINITE form Smokey has taken, and also the only Body that was DEFINITELY moved from where it was left (Jack's dad doesn't count as A) It could have been a hallucination and B) We don't know the body was in the casket in the first place). I've always always ALWAYS believed there were more than one entity, based on the tennis match they watch in the first episode. SMASH, look far left, SMASH, look far right, SMASH, look far left... seems like two big smashy things to me. More on Hurley - Hurley has NEVER had bad luck. In fact, he has the BEST luck. Nothing bad EVER happens to him. However, everyone AROUND him gets a shit storm. In 'Numbers', he walks across the bridge and is fine. Charlie, who is probably less than HALF his weight tries it and it snaps like a twig (yet ANOTHER near death for Charlie). If the Mittelos Bioscience website is canon, then the food drops come from a THIRD Island which is a bit further than Hydra Island, but close enough to be contained within whatever 'cloak' or 'force' there is that is keeping the Island hidden. What was it Ben said in the Swan... "Not even God can see this Island."? LOVE the djinn idea, my only problem has always been that "djinni" don't fall under any kind of "pseudo-science" I've ever heard of. But I would be totally stoked if they did it anyway, heh. What else was there.. Oh. Yea. Cooper is not Smokey. What the hell purpose would that serve? "We have a giant amorphous cloud that can shape shift and fly and smash people and become anything you can dream of. So we had it transform into your dad and tied it to a chair." Seriously, if the Others had complete control over Smokey like that, then NOTHING they've done would make ANY sense. I'm gonna borrow a page from Mr.X here.. You have a swirling black cloud that will do anything and everything you tell it to. Do you A) Have it play around in the jungle all day until you need it to turn into some dude's kidney stealing conman father, B) Use it to get the spinal surgeon you need to save your life C) Trek across the Island and get shot with an arrow and tortured and then have your friends blackmail a dude into killing some people to get you out? They. don't. control. it. And Locke blew up the sub because it was offending the Island. Just like all the hatches. Maybe. o_O; But I'm pretty sure he actually blew it up. I really don't think you can pilot a submarine single handedly. They do tend to need crews on those things. One final (for this post, heh) point: No, Locke was not a Submarine Commander unless he was playing Battleship. Randy looked him up waaaaay back in 'Walkabout' and there was no record of him ever being in any branch of the armed forces. Actually, they made a specific point of mentioning that, I think so that we would understand that he's a badass because he learned to be a badass on his own, not from any type of training. Or, his next flashback will be after Helen left him and before the accident, when he was Jack Bauer's partner in black ops. You never know. Jesus, this took a lot out of me. I'm gonna make some dinner, dayum. Don't worry, I'm sure I'll find cause to nitpick more shit later. It's what I do.
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"btw did John ever call him Ben? He wouldn't have known his name unless Kate told him...but I digress"
Tom was shouting Ben's name as he was knocking on the door (when John had Alex captive). That could be how John learnt his name, if he didn't know it before. -
she knew it. Girls always know their horses. She probably had her first orgasm riding that horse.
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Mar 22, 2007 8:54:59 PM CDT
The reason you think it's dumb to assume Cooper=smokey
by dapper swindler
Is because of the presuppositions on what smokey is. Even to assume that it is a black cloud of smoke that transforms into things is hasty I think. Smokey could be, and probably is, something way, way outside the box of what everyone is thinking it is. I don't think Cooper is a smoke monster but I think it's possible he is somehow related to just the same general concept of what the smoke really is.
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I just don't think that the Others have any sort of control over it, regardless of what it is. Therefore, if what we saw as Cooper was a physical manifestation of whatever Smokey is (which was the impression I got from the majority of posts, and the point which I was rebutting), it better have a reaaaaaaal good reason to want to look like Locke's dad and allow itself to be captured and tied to a chair. And if it is Smokey, how long has it been in the form of Cooper? Long enough for Ben and crew to capture it/him and tie it/him up in the basement while they've been on Hydra Island since before Eko was killed? I would never presume to say that Cooper couldn't be inherently connected to Smokey, since as you say we have no idea of what it truly is or represents. I'm just saying that it would be silly to have this great powerful smoke monster be 'playing dead' so to speak in order to get to Locke - which it could have easily done at any time while they were trekking across the Island. Judging from your response, I'd say we're in complete agreement. =D
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"Adam Seward" was a "retired computer entrepreneur from Ontario" according to Peter Talbut. Is it just me or does it seem like everytime someone says where they're from, it's Canadia? Weird, eh? What's that all aboot? Unless he meant Ontario, California. But I like the Canadia angle better.
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You've assumed that it can look like things, that is has reason. Who knows if it's really anything like that? Who knows if it even is an "it" - a tangible thing at all? Maybe smokey is a state of mind or an abstract concept. I have no idea, I'm just encouraging you to think outside the box because - while I have no clue myself - I don't think anyone has come remotely close to correctly guessing what smokey really is.
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And it seems next up along his path of destruction, Locke will throw a beatin' on his prick father - or is that "The Man From Tallahassee"? Maybe he's like Zartan or whoever the chameleon guy from GI Joe was - that would be cool.
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I'm all for thinking outside the box on this one... but for me, there are two (and only two) things I'm absolutely certain of that seem to have been established by the show: 1) it's a something and 2) that something exists in physical space. Of course, there is more that can be speculatively pulled from things Lindelof and Cuse have said (that Yemi speaking to Eko was more or less "the monster" speaking to him) which would suggest some sort of shapeshifting. Could it have all been in his head? Sure, but I like it better to believe what they show is what's truly happening, that if we were there standing on the sidelines, we'd see just what they're seeing. But to each his own. One of the reasons why this show is so great: people can interpret many different things from it, new thoughts and ideas that wouldn't have occured otherwise... Right, wrong, whatever... it's all really fascinating to me, and add in a great cast, good writers, and lush Island beauty, especially in HD... mmmmm tropical Island show... Just that is enough to make me want to drool all over the TV everytime it comes on. And the SCORE!! The music is the best part of the show. Fuck all the mysteries. Give me shots of Hawaii in HD with Michael Giacchino music over top and I'll watch it. It might not be as mind bending, but hey. Sorry, this turned into a weird stoner rant about how great Lost is. Continue on with your lives.
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out of curiosity, which Lazarus (if any specifically, I guess) inspired the name?
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so, like, someone mentioned that the djinn demons or whatever have four toes, and then someone said that Ben might have four toes. But didn't we already see something weird with four toes?
Like the fucking foot statue? -
It's the idea that Ben is one of the four toed people that lived on the Island and made the statue.. But I prefer the idea that the statue was made OF the djinn, in its image, which would make Ben having four toes make less sense... unless he's a djinn. o_O;
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For the love of God, who cares if you found out who dies. Wow you read Brasilian Rolling Stone or whatever. Most people watch this show to find out what's happening on the show ... when they're watching it. Novel, I know.
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Mar 22, 2007 10:52:25 PM CDT
It would nice if in the next episode Locke DOESNT blow
by judge dredds dirty undies
something up.
No way is his dad smokey either, I'm certain smokey isnt under the others control. -
of Locke's dad, (and I'm not saying I agree with this theory) the Others wouldn't have to be in control of it, and they certainly wouldn't have to tie it to a chair. if it is ol'smokey, at best the Others can anticipate what it will do, that when Locke looked in the room the smoke monster would take the shape of what he most wants to see- his father at his mercy. Smokey could have just as well taken the shape of a giant chocolate sunday or Kate in a schoolgirl's uniform............................wait, what was I talking about?
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See what happens when you make good TV again? People stop arguing about how good the show is and actually talk about the show. Thanks.
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Reading the TB's, many folks have mentioned a "Him" and "Jacob." No pun intended, but I'm lost. Who is this man you all are referring to?
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Sorry, fellas, but I just can't swallow that. I do agree that it is certainly probably that our lovable smoke monster can take the shape of a humaan - Eko speaking to Yemi momnets before his (Eko's) death is the best example - however, the idea that the monster has taken the form of Cooper would imply that A. The Others have control over the smoke monster and B. Locke wishes to see his father. Both of those possibilities don't add up, IMO. We don't yet know enough about the smoke monster (and I doubt we will until the damn series finale :) ) to assume that the others can control it, and Locke "wishiing" to see his father doesn't make any sense, as his blowing up the submarine was a result of not wanting contact with the outside world - the world that his father belongs to. This isn't to say that I can give any educated guess or theory as to how the hell Cooper is on the fucking island, but I think it's a safe bet that it is indeed Cooper in the physical form, rather than a shape of the smoke monster. Hope that wasn't to rambling - it's late here in Austin.
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Damn you John Locke
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Take a Shit Guy better not be killed off. He's worthless, but that is a hilarious gag. Also what happened to Scott or Steve?? Can't remember which one is still alive.
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He's worked for or with either Dharma or the Others. His name isn't Paolo - that's just the name of the 2 people whose identitiy he and Nikki stole. He has some kind of communication device with him that allows him to spy on the survivors. His frequent and prolific shitting is just a cover for him to sneak off in the woods and sit in peace in the shitter talking to his controlers.
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All this smoke monster, magic box, hamster talk makes the suggestion that Jack had a twin pretty tame by comparision.
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How else would you explain the box?
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While I agree that the idea of Locke not blowing up the sub is a good one, the answer to his being wet is probably just editing/ continuity. There were probably scenes shot of him getting wet while planting the C4 or getting out of the sub that just didn't make the final cut.
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its like the triforce in the legend of zelda-- whoever finds it, gets to have their innermost desire granted. maybe the smoke monster is something they made to make sure that a bad person doesn't get to the box/triforce and have their evil wish come true. and maybe the "?" from the lockdown map in the swan station is the box. haven't heard anything about it lately. the ? i mean. at least the writers have good source material...
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If your sole goal is to blow up a submarine, why bother going in it? You jump on it, slap the C4 to the side, set the detonator, walk away.
But that's not what Commadore Locke did. -
Could Anthony Cooper been on the plane and later taken by the Others? Here is my observation to back that theory up....We know a bottle of very rare and expensive McCutcheon Whiskey was on the plane. We saw Anthony Cooper drinking McCutchoen before pushing Locke out of the window. So if this is his brand of choice and as rare/expensive as Charles Widmore said it was, then maybe Cooper was on the plane and that was his bottle? Maybe he was in hiding in Austrailia and returning to the states 4 years later once he felt he could safely return. Just a theory, but it could be the real deal.
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scotts alive steve is dead tisk, not that i want to drap up bad memories but where the fuck has link gone... i mean michael, and his kid walt. i know they were on a boat off home but come on not even a glimps of them since they left.
Also WTF is penny up too thats been left far to long and needs some story coverage. -
Penny, Michael and Walt will all come back, probably by the end of the season. Jesus, we're only halfway through. At this point last year we hadn't even seen the hieroglyphics on the hatch counter, which was the moment we really started to get a sense of how "real" the button pushing was. I never believed it myself (still don't), but I believe Gregg Nations over on the Fuselage confirmed that the "?" was indeed the Pearl station. Would be much cooler if it wasn't, but supposedly it was. Oh well. My thoughts on Cooper: They're obviously making a connection between Cooper and Widmore through the whiskey. I think Cooper tried to con Widmore (a very, VERY rich man), but finally got caught in the act. So, Widmore gets rid of him by dumping him on the Island. I think Widmore, Sun's father, and Alvar Hanso are all interconnected with eachother and the Island. I wouldn't be surprised if Charles Widmore himself doesn't pop up sooner or later. Mr. Paik, too. Get all these bastard fathers together for a heaping dose of cosmic karmic retribution.
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I read today that it will be 5 weeks until we see Locke and his Dad again. Now if you've read any of my previous posts, you know that I love the show completely. But if there is a complaint to be made is that they drop a bomb like this week or the Penny Widmore thing at the end of last season and just drop it with no follow-up for many many weeks. I can live with the Penny/Artic Station things as these people aren't show regulars, but to drop this Locke story line for 4-5 episodes is not making me happy. (somewhere the world smallest violin plays for me!)
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The look John and Jack give each other after the sub exploded was fooking priceless. Didn't start watching this show until halfway through the first season but I've loved it ever since. Don't like the fact that nearly all of the black people on the island have been killed or written off though. Finally seeing how Locke ended up in the chair was heartbreaking and sudden. You really see how much he's changed from then to now. Cunning thy name is Locke. Loved the verbal sparring with Ben. He did it with very little actual speaking. When he said I'm not in the chair anymore and you are was the perfect jab.
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I love it when AICN logs me out WHILE I'm posting, and then when I try to log back in my password doesn't work and I have to request a new one and then change it again. It's been said before, but I'll say it again: these talkbacks are really, REALLY poorly designed. Get someone who knows CSS to revamp this shit!
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He gives you what you wish for and keeps everyone there for his own purpose. Now, was Ben produced from this box himself? This would fit in with the fact that he has been the only person born upon that Island. I hope it doesn't go this Twilight Zone way.
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something that you want or something deep in your head comes to life. Although it won't end up to be like this, but right now that's what it sounds like.
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It's decorated with a plaque full of military patches, and there is also what looks like a framed letter under a large American Flag with other countries flags bordering it. At the bottom there in large letters, the first two look like U.S. but its too blurry to read. Thinking military and using your imagination, "U.S. Marine Corps" would fit there.
There are other flag decorations around the room too. It doesn't mean anything except he has decorated his apartment with this stuff, I know. -
Kate - Wanted to escape and be free
Ecko - Wanted to see his brother one more time.
Jack - Wanted to see his father one more time.
Locked - Wanted to walk again
Rose - Wanted to be cured
Bernard - Wanted Rose to be cured
Charlie - Wanted to get off the smack and start a family
Claire - Wanted to keep her baby
Anna Lucie - Wanted to die because of what happened to her baby.
Shannon - Wanted to be loved by a good man
Jin - Wanted the life of a simple fisherman
Sun - Wanted to be away from her father
Hurley - Wanted to be away from the trappings of wealth
Michael - Wanted to be with his son
Sayid - Wanted to leave his old life behind
Libby - Wanted to get it on with a younger fat man and then get shot accidently (OK - maybe not)
See a pattern here? Maybe the writers were being clever when they said the castaways aren't in purgatory. Maybe they are in Heaven? The Hostiles are a faction of the Dharma people or another group that wanted to use the Island to explore Heaven.
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http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/03/no-lockecooper-for-while.html
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So, Locke pretends he wants to blow up the sub. Ben thinks he wants to blow up the sub. Ben tells him not to because we think he really wanted it blown up to keep Jack and Juliet an the island. So Ben thinks he can manipulate Locke by saying he doesn't want it blown up so that Locke WILL blow it up. But Alex tells Locke that her father is mainpulating him. So what if Locke knows Ben wants the sub blown up so he pretends to blow it up to fuck with him? But what if Ben knows Locke knows Ben is manipulating him. He says don't blow up the sub, so Locke will think he wants it blown up but knows Ben is Manipulating him so does the opposite of what he thinks Ben wants which is the opposite of what Ben says he wants. So Ben is double manipulating Locke, why else would Alex say "my father maniuplates people to get what he wants" Okay, that was a little confusing and now my head hurts. But basically, Locke knew that Ben was trying to manipulate him to blow up the sub, so why would Locke do it any way? Ben played with his mind and the end result is Locke pretends to blow up the sub, everyone thinks the sub is gone, Ben knows that his double mind fuck on Locke is going to work so he knows that the sub is still around, but know he can get Jack and Juilet to stay on the island. So everyone thinks the sub is gone except for Locke and Ben. Locke is in the Others custody so now Ben has his own personal sub hidden from everybody because they think Locke blew it up. Does any of this make sense? I doubt it worked this way but I like giving Ben that extra bad-assness and the power to manipulate someone who already knows they are being manipulated and still get what he wants! Whoa, I'll shut up now.
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I definatley dont think Cooper is the smoke monster. I dont like the fact that the Others can controll it enough and get it to sit in a little room. I do think that he is working with the Others and that they had him tied up just to fuck with Locke. Is he Jacob(who we know is the HIM/ leader)? I dont know, it might be pretty cool if he was, maybe not. But then who is Jacob? Jack's Dad? Who ever it is I'm pretty sure it will be someone we already know and have been introduced to. Why else would they hide his identity for so long?
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http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/c4-4.jpg
I'm pretty sure they didn't put the C-4 under the road. (but yeah, "movie" explosions tend to be a bit different than real life) -
So if the Island is heaven, what happens to the people who die? Do they go to Second Heaven?
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for fuck's sakes.
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Kudos Dapper - sorry I've been away for a while. Anyway, I like your thinking.
Maybe a better way to picture the "strings" manipulating the past is as rows of dominoes branching out in all directions. The tipping of each is the cause that sets the next event in action. Now what if instead of just falling forward, there were multiple possibilities that even a slight nudge could start toppling a different row in another direction. And what if this new direction intersected with another row of dominoes that got sent in another direction that otherwise would not have been started. This could be a very efficient manner in which the wish power/course correction could attempt to achieve its desired result. To wit: Event A occurs - an automobile crash which sends ripples through multiple lives, including Jack, Shannon, Boone, etc. Now the dominoes of Jack's life (Row A)are set in motion, with possibly the wish power granting him the one time miraculous power to heal Sarah, who then becomes his wife. Now Jack, having a god complex yet being frustrated at being unable to recreate that miracle, turns out to be a lousy mate, and Sarah turns to another man. (Who that affair truly intersects with has yet to be seen.) Jack accuses his father of being the other man, leading to the final argument that sends Christian off to Australia. Along the way, Christion intersects with Ana Lucia (Row B) who he convinces to go to Australia, a radical departure from her otherwise intended life course. Christian continues on a path that arcs through the lives/domino rows of Sawyer and Claire, and of course comes back around as the ultimate reason Jack gets on the Flight 815. The inexorable result is that everyone touched is drawn to the nexus where it all starts, the Island.
By the way, the one property of the wish power I don't think has been discussed is that you obviously can't wish yourself off the Island. The purpose of the "course correction" is, of course, to bring people there until the ultimate event occurs. In other words, wishing yourself off is clearly at odds with the power that brought you there in the first place. My guess is even if the Others have provided Michael and Walt a temporary escape, they will be sucked back sooner or later.
Finally, I like Rex Havok's summary of the Losties seeming to get what they want from the Island. Doesn't that fit in nicely with this "wish theory" business?
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I read/skimmed through this talkback and didn't see a certain point mentioned. I may be off base about this, but I did rewatch the scene several times once it dawned on me. In the final scene - Locke looks into the room/box and says "Dad?" - It looked as if the man tied to the chair had no arms. I mean, he was wearing a short sleeved shirt with the empty arms just hanging loosely and empty to his sides. Okay, his arms could have been tied behind his back and behind the chair, and maybe he had a large, oversized shirt (being a fat guy and all) so the sleeves just looked loose. But it looked to me like he had no arms. And wouldn't that fit in with the 'whatever you wish for" element? Dad took Locke's legs (well, the use of them) so the island took his arms. Justice?) --- Really, I can accept the sci-fi elements easier than any magick or genie explanations. Let's say the guy is the real Sawyer and James Ford knew he was on Flight 815 and was tailing him? So he crashes with the Tailies and loses his arms but is saved by The Others surgeon, Nathan. And thinking he was robbed of his revenge is part of why James is so cynical and bitter. That seems to fit better than all this "Rose is the Box" silliness. I'm just sayin'...
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My user name was inspired by the the biblical Lazarus who was risen from the dead. I started using it while playing online deathmatch games. Now I use it for any forum I chat on as well. The hyphen is because someone else had taken the unabridged spelling of the name.
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I noticed the same thing about Locke's dad's arms and mentioned it the night it aired around 2am so I guess it went unnoticed. I have the same impression you do. His arms are tied behind his back, but I've seen people tied up like that in shows plenty of times (at least a dozen on any given season of 24) and you usually see at least part of the arm, but in this case I couldn't. And his sleeves did appear to be hanging loosely. I wondered if the Others had done this to him or if Locke did indeed wish him there and took his arms for taking the use of his legs. Of course it could just be an optical illusion. Hopefully we won't have to wait until season 12 for that to be answered.
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Isn't the any sci-fi explanation of Lost the same thing as a magic explanation? If a scientist developed a device that allowed you in some manner to reach back in time to alter events so you could get what you want now, why is that different from having a "wish box"? The comic book version would be the Cosmic Cube, a device that was created by scientists using force fields and extra-dimensional energy sources. (See the Wikipedia entry, which in part states "A Cosmic Cube is a cube-shaped matrix that holds vast energies that are responsive to the wills of sentient beings... A sentient being can use a Cosmic Cube to manifest his thoughts as reality, and thus to accomplish virtually anything he or she desires.")
P.S. Napolean - Cooper's arms were clearly tied behind his back. -
Do you ever go to the fuselage? We should try posting some of this stuff in their theories section.
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Jeez louise people. Let the story play out. You'd think they were responsible for genocide or something. Chill people.
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C4 packs enough of a punch that even slapped on the side of something it would cause a lot of damage, probably enough to sink a submarine. I'm still pretty sure he blew it up. It's really dark, but I can just see the outline of the sub next to the dock as Locke's walking away from it. Besides that, there's the whole logistical problem of how he could pilot a sub singlehandedly, but stranger things have happened(?)
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Word.
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Lindloff was once quoted as saying that there are certain things on the show that no one could ever understand at this point because you don't have all the information. There is a lot yet to be revealed. It makes me laugh when people so passionately try to create theories based only on the knowledge you have at this point. You can't think of a good reason Cooper would be on the island, so somebody says, "Hell, there's a smoke monster! He must be a smoke monster!" This is obviously not true. The fun of the next several episodes will be finding out what the hell Cooper is doing there.
That's always what the fun of this series has been, the slow reveal. We didn't know what was in the hatch, and when we found out, it through most of us for a very pleasant loop. We didn't know anything about The Others, and while some may have been let down, most of us were fascinated as we learned things about them we never would have guessed at. Now Cooper is locked up in their closet, and it will be fun finding out exactly why. (btw, i thought it was interesting how surprised Ben seemed to be that The Others had somehow gotten possesion of Cooper.) -
he's also said that it's scary how close some people's theories are on forums.
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after watching the newest lost i coincidentally went to see shakespeare's THE TEMPEST. has anyone else given some thought to the parallels between the two stories? especially the coincidence of watching ep 13 and the play on the same day leads to parallels beyond the deserted island motif. it's probably just one of LOST's inspirations. especially the wish box thing is a remarkable parallel. I'd appreciate comments on that parallel!! first of all i was a bit shocked after i had seen the episode because it seemed to give so much away. of course this is a healthy thing concerning the plot of he whole series, but, despite the greatness of this episode, i felt a bit disappointed by that at first. the more i think about it, discuss it and read other opinions on it on the web (what would LOST be without it?) I recognize how much still needs to be solved, which comforts me a bit. i also very much enjoyed last weeks episode. it's one of the fantastic things about the show that it doesn't fully rely on answers for the mystery because it has these wonderful characters.
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You just gave me an idea... Maybe Ben wants to cut off all communication and transportation to and from the island. Maybe he wanted Locke to stop pushing the button. He could have not pushed it himself, but then it would have imploded with him in it. So he made Locke decide not to push it. The reason he wanted the sub destroyed may be more than just not wanting to allow Jack and Juliet to leave.
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Cerebus is Ariel...Jacob is Prospero...
Though Locke might be Proto-Prospero
Anywho...The Tempest seems like a sound comparison lately.
Maybe the 4 toed deal is Setebos. -
...made me think about the Tempest parallel most of all Allie, especially the way Ben spoke of the island and how he knew it, and that he was the native. I missed your post above 'til after I posted and now I think it's synchronicity. Something to it maybe.
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i still cant get over it
looking forward to my 5th viewing... -
I like the sound of that (well it works better than "NetSwindler" anyhow - which could end up with the FBI after us). Posting anywhere is usually a rarity for me, but I just had that "Eureka" moment this week. Between work (which I have neglected way too much the past few days) and family (proud to say my 2 year old daughter can identify by name every one of my 6 year old son's massive Star Wars action figure collection) I probably won't get much opportunity to recreate my thoughts on the Fuselage. I would love it if you wanted to run with the idea and if I get a chance to check in and contribute once in a while. Feel free to copy any of my posts and use them to help get started if you want.
Some other points for future exploration - 1). Are all of the 815 survivors mandatory guests in the postulated course correction event? It would seem that some, like Jack and Desmond are v.i.p.'s on the Island (the "good ones"?) while others may have gotten swept up by all those tumbling dominoes. Did tapping into the numbers make Hurley an invitee? Is Sayid there because of his encounter with Inman? Did Charlie get blessed with an invite by merely bumping into a time displaced Desmond, with the "wish" power subsequently allowing him to become a one hit wonder?
2). Is it even really about the 815'ers - or do we have to go back a generation or so? What if Christian Shephard (who clearly traveled the Pacific Rim enough to have started a family in Australia), Charles Widmore, Mr. Paik, Adam Rutherford and others were associates/investors/friends of Alvar Hanso and participated in DHARMA in some way. If the accident was caused by them, does the correcting event somehow involve the next generation?
Which brings us to ...
3). What is it about the importance of Children on the Island and all that Oedipal stuff anyway? Is there a rogue entity on the Island wielding wish power with the mind of a child just looking for playmates who may have had parental issues similar to those of the Losties? Is the event to be corrected some father/son thing? Does this go back to Magnus and Alvar Hanso, and could Jacob be Ben's dad? -
LOCKE: "Now, Ben, we've had this argument a thousand times-" BEN: "Actually, its only been about six times, but do go on." LOCKE: "(sigh) Okay, now with this bucket of paint, I'm going to put a BIG WHITE LINE down the middle of our apartment. Now this side is MY side of the apartment, and that is YOUR side!" BEN: "But you have the fridge!" LOCKE: "Well, because its my side." BEN: "But half of the TV is on your side, and half is on my side!" LOCKE: "Then we'll use picture-in-picture." BEN: "Oh, alright. Now, if you'll excuse me, I just noticed that the bathroom is exclusively on *my* side of the apartment. Cheers!" LOCKE: "...goddamnit, Henry Gale..."
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Am I to assume that someone has already drawn the connection of the names Jacob and Benjamin to the bible?
Benjamin was the youngest son of Jacob in the bible and his favorite (when Joseph was out of the picture). When Jacob died, he bestowed the following blessing on Benjamin:
"Benjamin is a ravening wolf, in the morning he devours the prey, in the evening he snatches a share of the spoil." (Genesis 49:27)
Dunno. Kind of interesting, right? -
ok firstly, ANOTHER GREAT EP! KEEPING EM COMIN!
Second I know most if not all the posts about Xerxes and Who the Hell are You? are sarcasm but really, enough already! I'll reserve judgement until this "big reveal" ep coming up but so far I could not give two shits about a guy who's done nothing on this show except take two shits...
moving right along... I get that Locke knew he was being manipulated and went along anyway and I can believe that maybe he didn't really blow up the sub, just to be cheeky - what did it for me was when he says to Ben "maybe I was a commander in the Navy" and Ben gives him a "we both know you were" kinda look...
Also, that ending was coming from a mile off - the "anywhere in the world" reference I got in retrospect but as soon as Ben called for the "man from Tallahase" I knew how this ep was gonna end and I didn't have to bother waiting for the fade-to-black to know it was the end of the episode (sometimes it can sneak up on ya, yknow?)
FINALLY - whoever it was mentioned it (Novaman?) I'm already on record on the smoke-monster-is-nanotech theory and yeah sure the producers said it's not nanomachines but they also said there would be no time travel SO IN YOUR FACE DOUBTERS!!!
p.s. whoever asked - the carriage returns are your standard html line BReaks. Glad to be of service... -
Locke doesn't want his dad.
But a survivor does want his dad...SAWYER! -
The creators always said there was a big hint in the pilot episode. I think it has to do with the game backgammon and how Locke describes it. Locke is white, has healed has a commune with the island. Rose is black, has healed has a commune with the island. Perhaps Walt had powers on main land and the island HEALED him of his powers thus the others had no use for him. I wonder if this is going anywhere?
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MICROmachines. Yea, I know. But look it up. Microtechnology.
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everything that's happened this season makes perfect sense. Ben wanted Jack. He needed Kate as leverage to keep Jack in line. He needed Sawyer as leverage to keep Kate in line. Then, he puts Sawyer and Kate together to give Jack a reason to stay with them. He even let Jack out of his cage JUST so he could see it happen.
"I want you to want to help me."
And Hurley was the messenger to go back and inform Locke that he shouldn't go and rescue them, which is exactly what Ben knew he would do.
"Don't tell me what I can't do!"
Everything is part of Ben's plan. He's a friggin' evil genius mastermind. -
Yes, Cooper does have arms. It seems like they intentionally made it ambiguous (like Jack's second tattoo), but you can see here: http://tinyurl.com/2p7ah7 that he does indeed still have arms. We'll have to wait and see about hands being attached to those arms, but... ;P
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As long as you remember us telling you it wasn't when it isn't. ;)
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...what they want, would I then conclude that Lost is just a slightly creepier remake of Fantasy Island?
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