Movie News

Harry has seen the ShoWest TRANSFORMERS Presentation!!!! Twice!!!! NICE!!!!

Published at: March 14, 2007, 2:40 a.m. CST by headgeek

Hey folks, Harry here... Ok - so I've seen the 20-25 minutes of TRANSFORMERS footage that Michael Bay and folks unleashed on SHOWEST tonight. Only - I've seen it twice and at the Drafthouse. The footage has the most finished look at the robots that is available thus far... but things like the voice work, the eyes and other tweaks - are still yet to be put in place. Having said that... I really liked what I saw. In particular - the two Desert sequences. The first featured a group of grunts headed to a camp to cycle back to the U.S. It's a bit cheesy in that idealized look at the American troops that still pass out Chocolate to kids in a region - that long for the kid they have back home that they've never held and that are quirky in that quirky way. It happens to be the kinda cheese that I like. As these guys are settling in, we cut to the base's command center which has picked up an unidentified bogie that ain't sqawkin'. I love the military banter here - which on the page when I read it, fell as flat as a tortilla - but intercut with images of the coolest friggin military hardware in the world... I couldn't help but dig it. These new Ospreys just look massively awesome. Now this is obviously the BLACKOUT scene that we've seen hinted in the trailer. After the copter lands - and begins the Transforming - the shit hits the fan quick. I need to be clear about something. I love the original TRANSFORMERS movie, cheese and all. But I'm not a chapter and verse Transformer guy. What I am though, is a Giant Robot Geek - and this sequence with BLACKOUT... is Giant Robot Geekgasm material. The sounds it's energy weapons make are so awesome as to make the hairs on your legs tremble with their sub-bass sonics. It's killer. Mind you - the Robot voice stuff isn't in place, so I can't judge any of that - but BLACKOUT is blowing the fuck out of stuff left and right. He seems to be on an information scouting attack. Loading in all the military tech files and info on hand through the military system. And doesn't seem to want to leave survivors to tell the tale. The scene didn't play to completion obviously - and after a particularly awesome shot of troops being annihilated... the screen went black for a sec - before going to the next segment. The thought hit me. Can you imagine if this happened? What if in Qatar - 350 troops or so and an entire base just suddenly got wiped out by a Giant Fucking Robot? The film played it for keeps - the attack is ruthless and intense. Me likey. --- The next sequence seemingly feels like nothing to do with the first segment. It's in suburban America - and Shia's character has pulled up in Bumblebee with the tanned, slightly sweaty chested babe character. This scene is much more in keeping with the Transformers that I know. First off - it featured Bumblebee, Optimus Prime, Ratchet and Iron Hide. It was playful and familiar from the Robot side - and from Shia's side too. He's terrified of his parents finding out about the Giant Robots outside - and is apparently looking for a pair of glasses that Optimus wants - that we know are not glasses, but some robot something. It could be the Maltese Falcon as far as we know, but most importantly - Optimus wants em. The scene played out fun. I'm not a big fan of the Optimus mouth animation, I feel it distracts from the eyes - but this is actually a discussion that production is currently having. My vote is - a robot doesn't need lips - it has speakers. However, the animation on Bumblebee, especially a very nice "shh" moment works. And the kill the Taco Bell dog moment is geekily kinda awesome. However the biggest moment of this scene - is when the Government Agents show up on scene led by John Turturro, who just rocks. He comes in and he's just... completely vibrant. A fully realized fun character. Think - a southern Jeffrey Combs from THE FRIGHTENERS - just not as overplayed. Reined in a bit. His scene with Shia's family makes me hope for a some nice tough Turturro action later. --- Then the final scene features our grunts from the first section - high tailing it through the desert trying to find a way to communicate with their army to come get them. When Scorponok attacks. This sequence is very cool. In particular - Tyrese shines here. They run into a village as the team begins laying down fire on Scorponok - while that scorpion robot throws all sorts of shit at the village. When Tyrese finally gets a connection with the Pentagon and the military aerial backup comes - it gets really fun. This is the stuff Quint saw filmed live - I'm sure he'll report on it from SHOWEST. Here's the thing though. The robots kick a certain amount of ass - even in these low key scenes. None of this was Robot on Robot action. These will be the small scenes in this film - and they were satisfying. And the effects kicked ass even if they were nowhere near finished finished. All having tweaks left to be done. I'm very curious to see how it all fits together. The highest complement is... it looks like a Transformers movie. Watching Giant Robots doing there thing was just exhilarating. Saw a great movie at SXSW that I'll tell you about tomorrow - called MONKEY WARFARE. Kicked my ass HARD! Watch out for it!

Readers Talkback

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  • March 14, 2007, 2:39 a.m. CST

    Hmmmm Still not convinced

    by Aloy

    Never was a transformer fan

  • March 14, 2007, 2:41 a.m. CST

    http://dropboxthemovie.com/

    by Boondock

    Check out this site if you like Celebrity Sex Tapes.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:51 a.m. CST

    OF COURSE Harry liked it

    by IndustryKiller!

    He would have liked it no matter what. He's already decided that he likes this film and Michael bay and nothing will change his mind. If the fact that he loves Bay as much as he does doesn't damn his opinion for you then you probably have taste just as bad as his. Harry, simply put, is just asbolutely NOT to be trusted in this case.....or any case really. He's become a complete charicature of himself. There isn't a reviewer on this site with less street cred than Harry Knowles.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:56 a.m. CST

    Chur

    by Monknee

    That's about all I gotta say about that

  • March 14, 2007, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Prediction: this movie will be monumentally bad.

    by Barry Egan

    But have really nice effects.

  • March 14, 2007, 3:01 a.m. CST

    Bay's career in my humble opinion...

    by Spunkmeyer24

    "Bad Boys": The first time I saw this (in a theater) I remember thinking to myself "who is this director. The script is shit, but DAMN! can he stage the shit out of a action scene." I was really looking forward to his next film and alas... "The Rock" -- What a near perfect action film. Not quite on the level of say Die Hard, Terminator, Lethal Weapon, Aliens or Predator...but pretty damn close. In fact, it may be on the same level. "Armagedon": An exhilirating movie-going experience. Not a brain in its pretty little head, but the launch scene, the Norman Rockwell-esque moments (and I hate over-patriotism as a principal)but WOW! I loved this movie. "Pearl Harbor": What a disapointment! The point of view from a bomb! Can you get any less human? Much of the invasion set-pieces were pulled off nicely, but a little too over-choregraphed and even a bit of a diservice for those who were involved on that horrific day. And where were the Hawaian natives! "Bad Boys II": A cleansing perhaps, but Bay went back to the drawing board and boy did he deliver. Hard R, unapologeticly violent and irreverent, funny, and maybe just a bit of a "Fuck You, Hollywood, Pearl Harbor should have been R" from Bay. "The Island": I enjoy a good Puma commercial as much as the next guy but...I think a solid piece of entertainment, but suffered from a PG-13 rating, the lack of a good villian, and uneven pacing. "Transformers": Who will blink first and move their opening date? Will it be "Die Hard 4.0 "(fuck the US title) or this Spielberg produced, Bay directed film? Only one will rule the 4th, and Big Willy is in neither.

  • March 14, 2007, 3:02 a.m. CST

    NO LIPS ON OPTIMUS!!

    by General_Mortimer

    Apart from that sounds pretty sweet, though I don't like the sound of the goofy moments, like 4 giant robots being outside your house and you don't want your parents to know yadda yadda. As long as they have a kick-ass Giant Robot rumble at the end, I will be content! And NO LIPS!

  • March 14, 2007, 3:19 a.m. CST

    re: Industrykiller

    by HEADGEEK

    I haven't decided I love Michael Bay's TRANSFORMERS... I want to. Not because of Michael Bay and not because of TRANSFORMERS - but because I love the idea of a giant robot movie - and it's never been done live action near cool enough. <BR><BR>the footage I saw was cool - but sections 1 & 3 seemed very different from section 2. If tonally they don't match up - it could be a mess, but I don't think so. There's a lot of movie left to be finished and to be seen.

  • March 14, 2007, 3:22 a.m. CST

    RobbedZombie, why the negativity?

    by Spunkmeyer24

    Harry is simply excited that he was able to see the footage...TWICE! Why is this arrogant? I have, and many would agree that Harry, simply put, loves movies. I do as well, and it's great to witness Harry's success. I just graduated from film school and may or may not have success in this industry, but it's so disconcerting to hear people like you. This should be a conversation, a debate, a forum for those who have something to say about film. "Oh no, Harry mentioned he saw the footage twice -- hang the traitor!" Jeez

  • March 14, 2007, 3:24 a.m. CST

    interesting....

    by Seph_J

    i believe the haters are about to feast on embarassment

  • March 14, 2007, 3:26 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller!

    by hif4life

    cant believe im siding with you.. but yeah, this guy who once had the power to sink or make a movie a must see (ew words back in the day) now cant even have a coherent post, only a kiss ass hollywood propaganda... i wonder if the studios will catch on to this and finally treat harry like the nobody he once was and keep him away from studio productions... i mean seriously, harry wrote horrendous reviews about x3,ghost rider and fantastic four( and we al know this happen becasue he was never invited to visit said sets) and those movies were still huge hits... as for transformers, well whats left is there to be said, this will be another headache inducing pile of shite that people will pay to see during its first week but then will be forgotten, just like every bay movie

  • March 14, 2007, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Could MCMLXXVI please clarify why he hates Michael Bay?

    by Primus

    I don't think I've ever actually seen an explanation from him (her?) about why Bay should be damned. Harry - sounds great. My fingers are crossed too. And yes, no lips on Optimus please!

  • March 14, 2007, 3:36 a.m. CST

    hif4life

    by BadMrWonka

    a name that inspires credibility, by the way...the 3 movies you mentioned that harry wrote horrendous reviews of...those were all horrendous movies. just worth noting.<p>still, I think you're right, your long running movie website is a lot more credible...<p>oh wait...

  • March 14, 2007, 3:36 a.m. CST

    yo so like

    by I Cant Believe I Actually Registered

    how do the address the reberth (2nd rebirth>!>question mark) of optimus prime? plus armageddon rocks i got the critereon

  • March 14, 2007, 3:40 a.m. CST

    BadMrWonka

    by hif4life

    as if your name inspires people to find the cure for cancer.. and i never mention those movie were good did i? i made the point that his reviews count for shit and studios might finally realize that harry doesnt really have the internet power he once had

  • March 14, 2007, 3:49 a.m. CST

    WHY don't you think so Harry?And why you' re dead wrong

    by IndustryKiller!

    Explaint hat, why do you give this the benefit of the doubt? And don't give some bullshit answer like "I want all films to be good and therefore give them all the benifit until I see them." Attempt to be pragmatic here. Now I'm not sure how much connection you have to the 80's source material, but I have alot. I was a small kid in the 80's and my Transformers collection was right behind my Star Wars and GI Joe. Mori misses the point when he says the old cartoons arent any good. Of course they arent they were made in the 80's. WHat they undeniably have going for them is excellent character designs and excellent characters to go with them. Every robot had their own fantastic personality that shone through. Bay is going to piss on that. How do I know? Well first of all he's Michael bay. I don't give a fuck how much you PERSOANLLY like him, he's a shitty director. And, despite popular opinion, he CANNOT direct action. Having a large set piece and directing a good action scene are two different things. As his career has gone on, instead of maturing, he's retrograded becoming more and more "MTV" in his sensibilities as he goes. If you enjoyed anything he did after The Rock thats you prerogative, what isnt debatable is that not a single film he's done since then has been good. MAYBE Armageddon achieves guilty pleasure but everything after that is absolute crap. Yes bad Boys 2, yes The Island, and ESPECIALLY Pearl Harbor, which I contend to this day is the absolute worst big budget studio film of the last 50 years. Worse than Waterworld and Ishtar combined. Nazi propagandists couldn't have made a film more deregatory to the men of Pearl harbor. Which bring sme to my next point, his use of bullshit American cliches so obvious I swear there is spite hidden in them. His rah-rah America schtick, whether you are conservative or liberal, rings as false as Richard Simmons heterosexuality. He feeds our own bullshit back to us in such heavy doses i could swear he wants us to choke. It's nothing but a pandering money making ploy and its sick. And that's just his own personal flaws as a director, let alone what he has actually done to Transformers. First of all the script is god fucking awful. I have it sitting on my desktop right now and while it might not be the exact shooting draft I have every reason to believe its close enough to make a judgement call on. Also the character designs are atrocious. he had perfectly good designs already in place for him and in all his egomaniacal wisdom he had to throw them completely out the window for his own vision. Ironic considering he has never in his career displayed a sense of vision. His future world in The Island was about as believable as beach front real estate in Arizona. I could go on but I think I've made my point, which has alot more to back it up than your blind unearned faith.

  • March 14, 2007, 3:50 a.m. CST

    hi4life just did you up the arse

    by Spunkmeyer24

    Your so called point is utterly bogus. Let me get this straight. It's not likely that Harry gave negative reviews to movies that have been feverently described by countless critics as, well being... bad, becasue of his non-involvement with the said movies? You should take a Logic Class at your nearby community college

  • March 14, 2007, 3:55 a.m. CST

    Harry has no power hif4life

    by IndustryKiller!

    WE the talkbackers have the power. no one ever said studios check to see what Harry has to say, even they aren't that stupid, they read the talkbacks to see what the public buzz is. BTW those 3 movies you mentioned were terrible and the fact that they were hits means absolutely nothing. I think it's well documented fact that the american public wouldnt know good taste if it jumped up and stabbed them in the eye with a stick. Sorry to bite you after you agreed with me but I have to keep it real.....yo.

  • March 14, 2007, 4 a.m. CST

    Ugh

    by IndustryKiller!

    and just for future reference I know full well how to spell B-E-N-E-F-I-T. I don't know what the hell happened there.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:08 a.m. CST

    IndustryKillier

    by Spunkmeyer24

    Nobody cares that you misspelled...anything. Not to be an asshole, but who really gives a shit.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:09 a.m. CST

    This..

    by Redfive!

    sounds awful,in the way that ITS NOT TRANSFORMERS IN ANY WAY. Maybe it should just be called GIANT F*CKEN ROBOTS with Optimus Prime guest starring. Tyrese shines...WTF??.Rappers are the worst actors on the planet,next to Justin Timberlake. I BET MY SOUL PEOPLE ARE GONNA END UP HATING THIS FILM AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:18 a.m. CST

    Spunkmeyer

    by IndustryKiller!

    people give others shit for misspelling constantly on this site, you must be a newbie. So with that settled I hope your first post wasn't directed at me considering nowhere in my first two posts did I mention anything about Harry's reviews of Ghost Rider, X3, and FF. So considering that, I don't see how anything relating to them can nullify my point. After all everybody's bound to hit the mark once and a while.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:20 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by ApneicMonkey

    Your name says it all really - you odn't like movies and will find any excuse to complain on the internet. Well, congratulations - well done, you. I was a big Transformers fan when I was young and had all the toys (I still ocassionally buy the cool collectible stuff for my home) and I think the new movie looks great too. No one's raping your childhood, and no one is crapping in the mouths of the Transformers creators. I guarantee, if you put a movie out with the original Transformer designs and character types today the film would get laughed at.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:32 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by Spunkmeyer24

    I never wrote that you mentioned anything about the three movies you referenced. Reread the "subject" and "byline" Are you fucking high? Reread the posts you moron.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:32 a.m. CST

    Why Transformers will suck:

    by Barry Egan

    When Bay made The Island he was trying to grow as a filmmaker. He was trying to make a more mature film. At least he said as much in interviews. The movie was a huge bomb both critacally and commercially. I assume the ciritcal lambasting didn't bother him as he is by far the worst reviewed A list director in a very long time. But for a guy whose credibility is locked into box office returns, the commercial failing of The Island was probably pretty devestating. I think Bay will likely resort back to his worst tendancies with this film. And if the script is as bad as many are saying it is, Transformers may be a landmark bad movie.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:51 a.m. CST

    Prime gives us his feelings about the Movie

    by zombiegirl1979

    On this t-shirt: http://tinyurl.com/2humzv I posted this in Quint's review too, but man it's GOLD.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:01 a.m. CST

    Apneicmonkey and Spunkmeyer

    by IndustryKiller!

    Monkey, thank you for that in depth argument to my contrary, your analytical mind confounds me. You really out argued me there. I hate movies. It's as simple as that, you are right. I'm the heat miser trying to ruin Chrstmas. I frequent this site and post on this forum and this forum only because I hate movies. Nevermind that you know little to nothing about my tastes as a filmgoer. And it's not like I actually posted any reasons for my skepticism right? C'mon Monkey you know better than that. And I'm not quite sure why the original designs would be such failures. There isnt anything absolutely insane about them in my recollection. We have a truck, a jet, a jeep, a few cars, and robots that more or less everybody on this site agrees looked better in their original formats. Maybe you could tone the colors down a tad but you will have to explain to me how making Megatron a twisted spikey "We'll sell tons of t-shirts at Hot Topic!" looking mess is so much less laughable than the original design. No really explain your logic on that one. Because if as a 5 year old I thought the original megatron was cool I'm not quite sure why 5 year olds today wouldn't as well, while simultaneously appeasing fans with the original design. I mean i really don't see many adults not familiar witht he franchise saying "Boy look at that silly square original Megatron!! Thank god they made him spikey and an alien jet instead of a gun!" And if I'm such a film hating asshole why don't you tell me all the redeeming parts of the script to this film you are determined to love. Once again monkey I'm serious. Have you read it? I have. If you have I want you to tell me what exactly it is you like about it. Actually defend the movie instead of making base accusations about me, a person you don;t know. And while you are at it you can defend X3, FF, and Ghost Rider if you are going to accuse me of being so off kilter in my "hating". Cause god forbid I actually demand more than the crap all filmgoers agree they mostly get at the theaters. I can only assume that my opinions make you feel insecure about your own sordid tastes and therefore i must "hate" film. And Spunkmeyer Im still not sure what the hell you were refering to in your SECOND post (i said first last time. my bad (thanks optimus)) If you werent refering to hif4life handing me MY ass then I guess Im off base. Sorry its vague. And my comment on the misspelling still stands.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:09 a.m. CST

    Why Transformers will be a hit:

    by CeejayNightwing

    Fanboys aside doing their predictable die-hard bitching; the general public and their kids are going to love the concept and spectacle, nothing rocks a kids world more than robots. Those of you still in love with the 80's will have to groan and bear it because those of us who did like Transformers, still do, BUT can see that you can't make a live action film look the way the cartoon and toys were becasue "IT IS PLAIN SILLY" - we will be going back for seconds and by the sounds of it, thirds! The Robots look amazing in both Cybertron alien mode and earth machine robot disguise. The action scenes look outstanding and it seems to contain enough human drama in the story to invest enough interest for all aside from the afore mentioned Die-Hards who simply want a live-action cartoon. This film will break 300 mill easy and probably be the best merchandise seller of the summer along with Spider-man 3. For fanboys who still have wet dreams about seeing a 25 foot Megatron turn into a German Hand pistol, Soundwave transforming into a radio Cassette player (in this day and age?) or seeing Bumblebee as a yellow VW Beetle in disguise (because that wouldn't stick out as unusual in your neighbourhood!) well there are tons of 3D modeling software and photoshop and animation studio techniques to blow your 3minute wad on YouTube. X

  • March 14, 2007, 5:18 a.m. CST

    Harry has become more mature

    by godoffireinhell

    Back when he reviewed FAST AND THE FURIOUS he wrote a whole paragraph about how the sound of the cars shook the hairs on his ballsack. Now he only talks about his leg hairs. I for one appreciate it but Harry, I have to wonder, did your girlfriend/fiancé make you shave your pubes and that's the reason why you don't talk about your ballhairs anymore??

  • March 14, 2007, 5:19 a.m. CST

    ok, corrections

    by hif4life

    when i said "once had the power to sink or make a movie a must see". i was reffering to an article that entertainment weekly did back in the late 90's, basically it stated that harry knoweles had a huge influnce on the internet regarding films and that people would listen to what he had to say.. my point is that some executives bought into this statement, and becasue they didnt want to get bad publicty for their movies, then they started courting the creator of this website, now look at the track records, harry gets invited to pay a visit to some sets and to report back on such films and next thing you know, the movie gets glorious reviews from ainc and most of the time the movies that he praises are not good at all....

  • March 14, 2007, 5:41 a.m. CST

    I am excited about the release of Transformers

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    Not because I want to see the film, but because I believe the entity known only as MCMLXXVI (who has transmogrified into pure antibay energy and is therefore neither male nor female) has something very special planned. I don't know what it is yet, but it will be big. It has laid the groundwork with its persistent and patient posting in every single talkback lo these past many months, and surely no one would do that for no reason.<p>Would they?

  • March 14, 2007, 5:53 a.m. CST

    Well done, young MasterKnowles, short and to the point

    by MasterKenobi

    Transformers could end up as the summers best action movie. Spidy looks great and it´s almost given Pirates will deliver ina piratesy way, but the action and intensity in Transformers gonna blow everyone away. And yes, I haven´t seen your 300 review.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:06 a.m. CST

    you guys are just full of it

    by BadMrWonka

    if harry gives a movie a pass that people generally think is bad, he's a sellout, he's on the payroll, he got to visit the set, etc. if he were to give that same movie a bad review, it's because he didn't get to visit the set, etc. etc. and when he likes a movie that the geeks have deemed bad, he's a sellout, full stop. how can he win?<p>and if the point is that harry has less power now than in 1996, jesus christ, of course he has less power. how many movie poopshoot sites were there in 96? and how many are there now? how can he wield the same influence? <p>you guys are like the old people at the restaurant that just want to complain and nitpick and vomit out negativity, simply because you have nothing better to do.<p>but hey, spunkmeister's post about logic, that I had to read twice to follow, since it was so poorly written...that gave me a chuckle.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:12 a.m. CST

    Pfft. Whatev.

    by TheJake

    I didn't read one detail that stood out to me as "Oh wait, maybe it won't be so bad." However, you did say several things that make me think "Yes indeed, this will most certainly suck." I'm not even gonna bother quoting the article. I think instead I'll quote another film you may be familiar with: <p>"I got a bad feeling about this." <p>Nuff said.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:34 a.m. CST

    Robot on robot action?`

    by DerLanghaarige

    I'm sure I saw something like this on an adult website...

  • March 14, 2007, 6:37 a.m. CST

    that did not shed anymore light on how the movie

    by just pillow talk

    will be. Of course the robots and the action will be cool. We've already seen bits and pieces of them and they look cool. What will be crap will be everything else, meaning the script, dialog, dog peeing on robot...<p>This movie was made for young kids, hence there's gonna be a lot of groaning by adults during certain scenes from the just awful dialog.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:50 a.m. CST

    THE movie of the year

    by dastickboy

    I'm more eager to watch this than 300 or Spidey. I'm not a hardcore transformers fan, but I can't believe the giant robot genre has been passed over for so long!

  • March 14, 2007, 6:57 a.m. CST

    PG-13?

    by crooney

    I know I'll probably get flamed for this one, but I'm really bummed about the PG-13 (almost an R) rating. Did they forget it's based on TOY line? I've got a 3-year-old and 6-year-old who love Transformers, but I'm not sure if I want them to see this movie. I'm not saying it needs to be "kiddified." But you can make a movie that's great for young and old alike. For example, my guys have seen most of the Star Wars movies and love 'em. They've watched some Star Trek too. But I worry they're too young for a Michael Bay flick. Flame on...

  • March 14, 2007, 7:04 a.m. CST

    The script is still a fucking shambolic piece of shit.

    by Blarney-Man

    They'll layer on the gloss pretty thick but it doesn't detract from a pathetically weak, and God awful cheesy script. Dying Soldier: "Tell my Baby Sue I love her." Josh Duhamel: "Don't you say that soldier.You're gonna tell her yourself." The soldier dies. Josh screams at the sky@ "NOOOOO!!" Cheesy Bollocks.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:06 a.m. CST

    Christ, I remember that Godzilla article

    by Lost Prophet

    and the positve review it got. That was actually the start of my mistrust in Harry's reviews. <P> It has been said often, but one of the biggest problems with Godzilla is that it was not godzilla- it was a giant lizard movie. WHich is fine. This is exactly the same, if it was called GIANT GEEKASM ROBOTS BATTERING SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER would we give a shit? methinks not. <p> On the other hand. I remmeber that SHITE LEPOOF interview where he said Bay was a better director than Spielberg and how as a pubescent little tosser he was given full control over his character decisions (Paraphrasing) so I probably would hate this anyway. <p>And as for that script abomination...

  • March 14, 2007, 7:07 a.m. CST

    crooney

    by just pillow talk

    It depends upon how they show the violence against the army, etc. Let me ask you this: while they didn't show the younglings getting cut down, they did show the dead bodies. Was that okay for your kids to see? Or what about when Anakin is left without most of his legs and is on fire? Just saying I don't think this will be worse, but I could be wrong. You should be worried about yourself having to sit through some of that awful dialog....cringe...

  • March 14, 2007, 7:08 a.m. CST

    Lost Prophet

    by Blarney-Man

    How do you get the line breaks in your posts?

  • March 14, 2007, 7:15 a.m. CST

    "It's a bit cheesy in that idealized.................."

    by The Outlander

    Frak! Can't Michael Bay make a film with out an over abundance of cheese? I thought maybe this time with the guidance of Spielberg he would final make a film that wouldn't suffer from his typical moronic excesses. Bay is capable of making a good film, why does he insist on making bad ones? We will see, maybe Spielberg can sneak into the editing room when bay isn't looking.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:16 a.m. CST

    Yes "high for life", it's all a big conspiracy.

    by brokentusk

    Harry is a total sell out and only writes positive reviews for films if he was invited to their sets. Except, when was the last time Harry actually went on a set visit? I've been coming to this site for years and I've read plenty of negative reviews for films that Harry has been greatly looking forward to and giving "the benefit of the doubt" to since they started production. Plenty of other critics on this site shoot straight as an arrow (especially Moriarty), Harry just happens to WANT to give films the benefit of the doubt. Now, if you don't like that, or you think his tastes are different to yours - don't read his reviews, but please don't poison every talkback thread with negativity and childish conspiracy theories.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:21 a.m. CST

    it's an html command

    by Lost Prophet

    what you do is (I can't do the symbols as it just rejects them so bear with me):<p> "less than" sign then "p" then "greater than" sign. <p>regarding Harry's taste- he loves films. He has an almost childlike appreciation of films. He does, however, have very limited quality control. The aforementioned bad reviews are nothing at all to do with set visits etc. In fact, Harry is very clear about why they blow- it is because they have taken some of his favourite properties and despoiled them. So why he let Stalkerman Returns get through is a mystery to me- he is a touch inconsistent

  • March 14, 2007, 7:30 a.m. CST

    the real talent

    by Barndorfer

    it'd be great if there was a way I could just pay $3 to just see the giant robot animations and sound effects instead of paying $10 to let Michael Bay and cast pretend that I'm somehow interested in what they have to offer

  • March 14, 2007, 7:31 a.m. CST

    I hate this shit...

    by nonsensical

    I used to think that the biggest problem with this film is that it deviates too far from the source material, which of course is still a huge problem, but there is more. <p> Yes, some of the folks here are right. This film will make some money... maybe. Mostly because it's a summer film. Of course that doesn't always mean it will do well. Can you say Catwoman? <p> I suspect that Fantastic Four 2, Spiderman 3, and Pirates 3 will blow the walls off this film. I say that because of the weak story, the unrecognizable characters, and the failure to make this film one that focuses on the Transformer's characters. <p> This is mostly due to the fault of the director who has so obviously failed to comprehend the idea behind these characters. To Bay Transformers is a coming of age film about a boy and his car that happens to transform into a robot. <p> Unfortunately, Transformers should have been a film that explored the universal dichotomy between good and evil as sentient robots from another planet wage a billion year old war that has spilled out onto the earth drawing humans to both sides. Those like the Whitwicky's who side with the Autobot because of their shared ideals, and say Dr. Arkeville (or some similar character) who offers something to the Decepticons and join them to gain power. <p> However, the fact that the director and the screenwriter failed to understand the basic tenet of the Transformers mythos isn't the only problem that hurts this film. The fact that Bay's Transformers are vehicles that transform into giant robots instead of giant robots that transform into vehicles is evident in the poor designs and as such only emphasises the failure to comprehend on the part of the director and his design staff. <p> Even if these were the greatest designs in the world the fact that they are unrecognizable as the robot characters they are to reprisent but are obviously and easily identified in vehicle forms shows how much influence the car manufacturers who are sponsering this commercial actually have. <p> It doesn't matter to me what Harry, Quint, and Mori say in their reviews and it's not a matter of them hving to please me. It's a fact that in the last few years they have begun to show that they are able to be "bought" through set visits, and advance "exclusives' provided by studios and or directors that understand how much sway Aint It Cool used to have on the film going audience. <p> I remember when this site thrust shame onto the Catwoman film for deviating so far from the source material and the resulting poor review reflected directly in the box office returns. <p> I also remember when they stood by indie films such as Bubba Ho-Tep on princple alone. Of course the indie support is still there, but the courage this site used to show when standing up against films that would trash the source material is gone. <p> Skepticism and criticism of films that are so obviously mishandled used to be freely denouced as just plain wrong when reviewed on this site with great detail and explanation as to why they were a failure to the source materials. Sometimes you would even see box office receipts that obviously reflected this audience sway. <p> However, in the past few years this site has given the benefit of the doubt or even positive reviews to films that just don't deserve it, either based on a relationship with the director, or the studio. Look at the bias this site had against X3 and Superman: Returns. <p> Both films failed to truly grasp the source material, but Superman: Returns failed on a far greater scale. <p> The fact that this was a pale remake of the first two films. The transformation of Superman into a deadbeat dad/stalker. The disregard of the previous 70 years of Superman history by having Krypton destroyed in a supernova rather than a core explosion and the addition of a Superbastard child. Not to mention the branding on the costume and color errors. All of this was ignored as the loyalty to Bryan Singer lead to an endorsement by this site for a film that really didn't deserve it. <p> X3 was no better or worse but unlike Superman: Returns, X3 was condemned by this site because of the rush to release. Nevermind that Bryan Singer's departure from this film left it nearly crippled and that Brett Ratner took and did his best with a film that might have been better if he had been on the film from the start and been able to make changes to a script that so obviously needed a revision. <p> This site has lost a lot of it's credibility and I think those who run this site have allowed this to happen either because of their own lives getting in the way or because of a slow corruption as time has gone on and studios have seen that this site actuall had some sway over the viewing audience. Instead these people have been infected by the spores. <p> To paraphrase Bruce Campbell, Spores are "a primitive, environmentally resistant virus produced by prolinged exposure to bullshit and capable of robbing the human brain of its abilities to think individually or creatively." <p> Obviously the powers that be here at Aint it Cool have contracted "Chronic Spore Syndrome" and unfortunately they've decided to leave it untreated and the result was a shrivelling of their balls as they move closer to being hollywood sellouts. <p> I'm not saying they are there yet, but they sure as hell are getting damn close and as more and more geek driven films are made and massacred in the process this site and its founders need to show their strength. <p> This site should be the first to stand up and really show the studios that the geek core audiences have been and will continue to be the driving force behind these films and the failure to recognise will result in losses at the box office. <p> I just don't get why Aint it Cool doesn't stand up for the culture they claim to reprisent and this film is just another example of how far this site has fallen.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:33 a.m. CST

    You will all see this movie...

    by onemanarmy

    ...and most of you will only see it so you have something else to fucking whine about. <p>

  • March 14, 2007, 7:37 a.m. CST

    The basic tenet of the Transformers mythos:

    by DerLanghaarige

    Sell toys, sell toys, sell toys!

  • March 14, 2007, 7:38 a.m. CST

    Thanks!

    by Blarney-Man

    So this is how you do it? <p> Cool!

  • March 14, 2007, 7:40 a.m. CST

    No I won't

    by Lost Prophet

    that is all.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:41 a.m. CST

    20 years from now...

    by DerLanghaarige

    ...the people who saw it 2007 as kids in theatres or on DVD, will think it's the greatest film ever! Even if it sucks. <br> Hey, it happened to the cartoon show!

  • March 14, 2007, 7:41 a.m. CST

    Hey Yackbacker...

    by nonsensical

    How's it going? You as pissed as I am that this site is pushing this shit like it's candy?

  • March 14, 2007, 7:50 a.m. CST

    OK

    by Lost Prophet

    I am not a big transformers fan. I admit it. However, I am angry for two reasons. Firstly, the fact that this obviously sub-standard shite is taking subject matter that people clearly feel passionate about and treating it like dirt irritates me immensly. There is subject matter that I feel very strongly about and I know that once they mine the geek properties to death it will be next. I just do not ever want a repeat of the utter shite that was released last summer. Crap film followed crap film and depressed the shit out of me. Secondly, the bizzare and disrepspectful behaviour of Don "Two Chins" Murphy- abusing TB'er's, attempting a strange and twisted PR campaign a year before the film was released- has hardened my conviction that this film should sink without trace taking everyone involved's career with it.<p>Before anyone says "Just don't pay for it" I happen to like going to the cinema and go as much as I can- so it fucking pained me that I had one of my favourite hobbies ruined for me (for literally months) by a wave of unmitigated shite. I did indeed stop going after the atrocity that was SR. <p>Is a little quality too much to ask for?

  • March 14, 2007, 8:02 a.m. CST

    Laughing my ass off at Nonsensical, Industryarse and ..

    by DonMurphysTool

    ...especially Lost Prophet. We in the industry do NOT read TB to learn the truth- we laugh at you sad sacks who cannot agree on anything. You don't matter. You love Snakes on a PLane? It fails. You hate the cheese of Ghost Rider? It succeeds. We do not care about you AT ALL. And Nonny- I have said that this site is OWNED by one of the producers of Transformers, Desanto, so babble all you want you are just a dumb fuckstick. And Lost Prophet- oh, the Mighty Murf mocked you? I think he mocks Harry every day on his site because Harry fucked him on a movie that Murphy was trying to make and Harry ate. Last year had a lot of great movies- you are just a hating emo douche. Transformers will rule the summer- and STILL no one will love any of you. Tragic? Nah. Perfect.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:03 a.m. CST

    You know what

    by nonsensical

    It's funny, I sit here typing waiting for seven to roll around and Transfomers: Cybertron comes on right after Voltron on Cartoon Network. So, I've sat here and listened to Peter Cullen on Voltron and now I get to suffer through TF:Cybertron as it plays out. Of course as bad as this might be, it's still better than this movie is going to be.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:04 a.m. CST

    Laughing my ass off at Nonsensical, Industryarse and ..

    by DonMurphysTool

    ...especially Lost Prophet. We in the industry do NOT read TB to learn the truth- we laugh at you sad sacks who cannot agree on anything. You don't matter. You love Snakes on a PLane? It fails. You hate the cheese of Ghost Rider? It succeeds. We do not care about you AT ALL. And Nonny- I have said that this site is OWNED by one of the producers of Transformers, Desanto, so babble all you want you are just a dumb fuckstick. And Lost Prophet- oh, the Mighty Murf mocked you? I think he mocks Harry every day on his site because Harry fucked him on a movie that Murphy was trying to make and Harry ate. Last year had a lot of great movies- you are just a hating emo douche. Transformers will rule the summer- and STILL no one will love any of you. Tragic? Nah. Perfect.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    oh shut the fuck up harry

    by themidnighter23

    you dont know what a fuckin transformers movie should be like so all your "shit hits the fan" claptrap is pure ignorant shit.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    "Tyrese shines here"

    by stlfilmwire

    Now I know this can't be the real Harry. It must be a robot.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:10 a.m. CST

    C3PO is proof that Robots don't need a moving mouth

    by stlfilmwire

    Good voice work will do it. Good body language will help. If you need lips, you are failing as a filmmaker.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:17 a.m. CST

    Allfuckingright

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    What is the point of a Transformers talkback without PharteGoddPrime? Glad to have you here, you funny little bugger.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:18 a.m. CST

    I forget?

    by nonsensical

    Did we establish that PharteGoddPrime was Don Murphy? <p> He must be since he's representing the industry, that "doesn't care about you AT ALL." and he claims that "Transformers will rule the summer-" even though everything points to the contrary. <p> Now, I wouldn't call Snakes on a Plane a failure. 33 million to make and a 62 million return. Sounds like a profit to me, especially for a film that was so obviously cheeseball B movie material. <p> On the other hand Ghost Rider cost 110 mil and so far is at 180 mil. Sure it is making more now, but cost more to make. Way more and I don't recall that ever complaining about the cheese factor in this film. <p> As far as my complaining about this site. Well, if Desanto owns this site then it just proves my point, thanks for the verification. Now, how expressing my distaste for the way this site appears to be run lately makes me a dumb fuckstick, I would really like to know. <p> Of course an explanation coming from a complete and total fucktard such as yourself would be pointless since it seems that you've got more important things to do such as giving yourself a blowjob. <p> Good luck with that.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:21 a.m. CST

    Maikeru Bei Ga Taberu Hazu Desu...

    by Acne Scarface

    Desu...

  • March 14, 2007, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Oh no...PharteGodd the fluffer has returned.

    by onemanarmy

    Didn't Mr.Bay send you to his room & tell you to not come out until he was through with you the last time you made him look like an ass on this site? <p> Shame on you...and the Royal "we" view those you allegedly represent in the industry as nothing more than politicians. <p> Media is after all...the fourth branch of the government.<p> With that being said, piss off.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Waiting for the story:

    by purplemonkeydw

    Moriarty has seen the new Transformers footage THREE times, Capone has seen the new Transformers footage FOUR times! Four! Ah-ah-ah!

  • March 14, 2007, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Hmmm... flame war anyone?

    by nonsensical

    Which will get more posts. This or the Quint story?

  • March 14, 2007, 8:35 a.m. CST

    THIS YEAR'S LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE!!!

    by Err

    Ahhhh.... who am I kidding.... it isn't going to be this year's Little Miss Sunshine.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:40 a.m. CST

    Is that a real scene, Blarney-Man?

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    If so, I love it. I would be better, though, if he pounded on the dying soldier's chest at some point:<p>"Don't you quit on me!"<p>That's the stuff I'm waiting for from this one. Pure, unadulterated baycheese. Give us it all, Mr Bay: the filtered sunsets, the slow-mo people getting out of cars, and the sincere cheese.<p>"Just get me in a damn plane!"

  • March 14, 2007, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Is that a real scene, Blarney-Man?

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    If so, I love it. It would be better, though, if he pounded on the dying soldier's chest at some point:<p>"Don't you quit on me!"<p>That's the stuff I'm waiting for from this one. Pure, unadulterated baycheese. Give us it all, Mr Bay: the filtered sunsets, the slow-mo people getting out of cars, and the sincere cheese.<p>"Just get me in a damn plane!"

  • March 14, 2007, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Hey, my first ever double post

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    Sorry about that.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:43 a.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime is the best!

    by just pillow talk

    The best I tell you!<p>HE'S this year's Little Miss Sunshine!

  • March 14, 2007, 8:46 a.m. CST

    Harry, it's THEIR, not there....

    by teh awesome

    Its a common mistake, but you should proofread before putting your stamp of approval on something you write to the world.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:51 a.m. CST

    uh...

    by nonsensical

    you might have wanted to show that to someone else that is unless you haven't seen your name, "teh awesome" I'm sure you meant the awesome... it's a common typo.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:58 a.m. CST

    grammar nazi's are the worst kinda of people

    by Datascream

    seriously, the holier then thou attitude is worse then the movie hating characters you portray here everyday. And the movie sounds fun btw.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:59 a.m. CST

    This movie sounds fun

    by Rupee88

    I was already in my teens when the Transformers first appeared, so I don't really care about the characters or property one way or the other. So this movie looks like it will be a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to it a bit.

  • March 14, 2007, 9 a.m. CST

    yeah, who cares about the Grammar Police?

    by Rupee88

    I'd rather Harry do something else constructive than proofread his articles repeatedly, searching for typos or grammatical errors. He's a pretty good writer and that is enough.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:02 a.m. CST

    damn...

    by nonsensical

    I was just ribbing teh awesome a little. I figure he/she typed that in on purpose as his/her name.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:06 a.m. CST

    CHILDREN OF FUCKING MEN!!!

    by PwnedByStallone

    Pull my finger.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:10 a.m. CST

    TYRESE GOTTA EAT

    by i kick tits

    ...GOTTA EAT FRIED CHICKEN

  • March 14, 2007, 9:12 a.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime

    by Lost Prophet

    1)"We in the industry do NOT read TB to learn the truth- we laugh at you sad sacks who cannot agree on anything. You don't matter"- When did I say that we did? If you have seen anything I have written on that subject I have repeatedly said that the snakes on a plane debacle proved that once and for all. just out of curiosity if you don'r care then what the fuck are you doing on a geek site? How's that apathy working out for you?<p>2)I don't give a fuck who owns this site. <p>3)Murphy did not laugh at me- it was some poor mug called Kneon. <p>4)I didn't say last year. I said last summer. If you honestly think last summer had a lot of "Great" movies in it you are a fucking idiot with the critical faculties of a tin of tuna. <p>4) I am not sure what emo (As I am not American)is but I suspect that it has something to do with goth teenagers that cut themselves. Not me then. <p>5) What you know about my taste could be written on the back of a postage stamp.<p>6) "The Mighty Murf"- pathetic. You give sycophants a bad name.6<p> You, however, announce your presence and "industry" credentials in such an obvious and pathetic attempt to be cool that it is quite depressing, your insecurity must be grating. By the way- making coffee for the mail room boys is not a job that has any kudos whatsoever- regardless of industry. Do you think that there are 2 little cunts playing trumpets on either side of your post to announce your presence here? <p>Now fuck off and crawl back under the rock that you slithered out from.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:14 a.m. CST

    this could be good if...

    by Kloipy

    at the end the tranformers turn out to be Lo-pan and he chops Shia's head off and skull fucks him

  • March 14, 2007, 9:16 a.m. CST

    You mean no one will love me...

    by tie3456

    ...if I think Transformers is a giant pile of crap!?! Oh man, somehow fielding insults from someone named PharteGoddPrime just doesn't ruin my day the way it should. I agree with the rest of you "dumb fucksticks" that think this movie will be garbage. I'll wait for it to hit HBO.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:18 a.m. CST

    HARRY 91, QUINT 61

    by nonsensical

    Which Transformers TB will win?

  • March 14, 2007, 9:19 a.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime

    by Kloipy

    when you are a fluffer for films such as Cum Guzzling Queers 6 and Cream Puff Grandma's, that doesn't make you part of the Industry. And who gives a fuck if you are? Your gonna shit, puke, and die like the rest of us. Keep on Truckin' Worm Food

  • March 14, 2007, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Well, I'm out...

    by nonsensical

    I'll check back in a few hours but I have to get back to work. I have models and camera shots to finish by end of day today.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:48 a.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime double posted!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    PWNED!

  • March 14, 2007, 9:49 a.m. CST

    just pillow talk...

    by crooney

    My kids haven't seen "Revenge of the Sith" yet for just those reasons. They've seen most of the others, but I'm holding off on that one for a little while.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Does PharteGoddPrime have a coke habit?

    by Doctor_Sin

    'Cos without one, you're not "industry." You're still a cocksucking waterboy. Now, go wipe the sweat off of your boss's Bowflex.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:19 a.m. CST

    Hey Doc

    by Kloipy

    we gonna ruin any more movies for people today?

  • March 14, 2007, 10:24 a.m. CST

    if he doesn't have a coke habit...

    by just pillow talk

    he should start one....<p>Crooney - then I suggest you just wait until the movie reviews come pouring in and make the call at that time whether to bring your kids or not. I would think that your 3-yr old is too young, but that is up to you.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Jeffrey Combs was the best part of The Frighteners

    by rev_skarekroe

    They should have done a whole movie about his character.<p>No, I don't want to talk about the Transformers.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:31 a.m. CST

    damn it should have been R

    by kilik777

    Screw little kids if they cant see it. They have enough Open Season, Happy Feet animated movies to get them through the year. http://tinyurl.com/pv8do

  • March 14, 2007, 10:40 a.m. CST

    About PharteGoddPrime

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    <======8

  • March 14, 2007, 11:05 a.m. CST

    He doesn't have a coke habit

    by Lost Prophet

    because people keep selling him baby powder for over-inflated prices and he has lowered his expectations to such a level that he thinks that sniffing johnson & johnson's finest "rules" as opposed to buying some actual drugs.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:10 a.m. CST

    PLANT!!!

    by thatpeterguy

    That's all I got. I'm outta here.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Damn you, Michael Batman.

    by JackPumpkinhead

    Enough Transformers, invite Stallone for some questioning again!

  • March 14, 2007, 11:23 a.m. CST

    What the f$ck!!

    by gomez33

    There are some extremely anal people on this talkback. Who gives a fuck if optimus prime looks different to the cartoon. The stupid gay blue and red truck thing pissed me off anyway. Make the giant lump of metal a little more interesting. Good to see the Gun fuckhead has changed as well and that 80's throwback stereo player is gone too. Do we really want to see a big action robot film set in the 80's with crappy old cars flighting a gun and a tape-player. Fuck no.... Let the cartoon rest in the past and treat this film as something different. It will be the third most successful film this year. Deal with it.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:32 a.m. CST

    rumors

    by Kloipy

    I've heard that the robots actually sing a song in a chorus line. like a barber shop quartet.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:34 a.m. CST

    rumors

    by Kloipy

    I've heard that the robots actually sing a song in a chorus line. like a barber shop quartet.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:35 a.m. CST

    rumors

    by Kloipy

    I've heard that the robots actually sing a song in a chorus line. like a barber shop quartet.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:35 a.m. CST

    rumors

    by Kloipy

    I've heard that the robots actually sing a song in a chorus line. like a barber shop quartet.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:36 a.m. CST

    I ain't gonna lie...

    by Crimson King

    I like Michael Bay movies. For the most part. The Rock is my favorite of his. I love that fuckin' movie. Liked both Bad Boys movies. Armageddon was ok. And I fucking LOATHE, HATE, DESPISE and WISH DEATH UPON Pearl Harbor. I totally dug The Island. And yes, I'm looking forward to Transformers. The only thing that worries me is what people who have read the script are saying about it. Otherwise, I'm not too bothered by this whole controversy about the flames and what-not. I mean, I grew up watching Transformers, and I fucking LOVED that show just as much as you all did. Just 'cause I wasn't able to collect all the toys doesn't mean I loved it any less. However, unlike a seemingly large number you, I didn't continue watching the show into adulthood, so I'm not as concerned about the changes as you are. I mean, honestly, the show is from the 80s, so things are going to have to change seeing as how this is now about 20 years later. Like someone pointed out before...are you really gonna pissed off that there's not a robot that turns into a cassette tape player??? I mean, nowadays, you'd have to have some mini-bot that turns into an iPod (prolly a 60GB one), or a Zune...I mean, they might get away with a CD player...maybe. But yeah, I can understand trying to make the robots seem like something that would work in the real world...then again, I don't know how successful they'll be at that. It is, afterall, a movie about giant fucking transforming robots. And c'mon, are you really surprised that in a movie where the main characters transform into fuckin' cars an shit that a car manufacturer worked out a deal to feature their own vehicles?? I mean, please. Product placement is an evil we will never be rid of, so fucking deal with it. As long as it's not done as lamely as the X-Box product placement from The Island, I think it'll be ok. I mean, think about it. If you worked at GM or something, and you heard that they were making a movie about giant robots that turned into cars, wouldn't you be like, "holy shit, I need to make sure those are GM cars!!" Fucking duh. I'm not asking for cinematic greatness. I'm just asking for an ass-kicking movie about giant robots that shows me a good time. Seriously, what the fuck else can you possibly want from a movie like this?!?

  • March 14, 2007, 11:38 a.m. CST

    john tutorro

    by lofe101

    is the freakin man. probably my favorite character actor. just him being in it makes me want to see it.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:45 a.m. CST

    These TBs are always the best.

    by Reelheed

    Regardless of how good this movie turns out to be it will have been worth all the effort if only to provoke these non-stop brawls. Heres looking forward to the TF2 TBs. In other news... I really hope the film breaks from these tired human POVs at some points. I mean this is reportedly a transformers movie right? not "Humans and their big robot friends slash enemies colon the movie."

  • March 14, 2007, 11:49 a.m. CST

    sorry about that

    by Kloipy

    didn't mean to be "that guy"

  • March 14, 2007, 11:59 a.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime

    by Barry Egan

    If he is an industry person it seems to me that his attitude about Transformers is indicative about why movies suck so badly. He says Tranfsorners will "rule the summer." Who gives a shit if the movie is bad. Will it make a lot of money? Of course it will. Is box office an indicator of a movie's quality? Nope. This is what is generally wrong with the motion picture industry. They are all a bunch of egomaniacal bean counters who are more interested in the grosses than whether or not they are making great movies.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:59 a.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime

    by Barry Egan

    If he is an industry person it seems to me that his attitude about Transformers is indicative about why movies suck so badly. He says Tranfsorners will "rule the summer." Who gives a shit if the movie is bad. Will it make a lot of money? Of course it will. Is box office an indicator of a movie's quality? Nope. This is what is generally wrong with the motion picture industry. They are all a bunch of egomaniacal bean counters who are more interested in the grosses than whether or not they are making great movies.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:20 p.m. CST

    Harry doesn't care about Transformers so he

    by superninja

    has nothing to lose with this film.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:25 p.m. CST

    The script is really bad, though, and all of the pretty

    by superninja

    pictures in the film will not make up for the poor story and lack of characterization for the robots. It's basically like Gremlins with giant robots, which actually sounds right up Harry's alley and maybe Mori's as well. The problem is for everyone else who knows about Transformers - this has nothing to do with Transformers and is in fact an inverse of what Transformers is actually about. Just call it something else.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Questions

    by ProfGriffin

    I enjoyed Transformers (the cartoon) and my brothers and I would play with the toys. (I was always the Decepticons and loved doing Megatron's voice. I digress. QUESTIONS: Will Starscream still be a whiny, backstabbing, traitor with aspirations to lead the Decepticons? Will Soundwave still be mostly silent, loyal, and creepy? Will Optimus Prime still the John Wayne/Matt Dillion hero he was modeled after? These are elements that I think are important. Not necessarily what they look like. Yes, I'd like old design Megatron...only because of the way he was handled in the cartoon. He WAS an older warrior model...Prime teased him about it as I recall. BUT...and here's the thing with me for Megatron. I don't care if looks like a spikey, angular Hot Topic robot...will he have a LARGE CANNON or WEAPON attached to his arm? THAT'S an important feature of Megatron to me. Oh well..we'll see.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Blarney-Man did accurately quote a line from

    by superninja

    THAT SCRIPT. And as more is revealed about the film, it appears that they shot THAT SCRIPT with very few changes. Abomination.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:35 p.m. CST

    I was watching Jonathan Ross on monday

    by emeraldboy

    and he did a preview of the films coming up during the summer. What was very interesting was the amount of money that Columbia and Disney will spend on Spiderman 3 and Potc 3. Ready for this. Both studios will be spending each way 400,000,000 dollars. How that breaksdown is like this there is 100,000,000 to market both movies, then there is 125-150 million dollar budgets. Spiderman three, shrek 3, Potc 3 come out in May one weekend after each other. Summer movies are like battlefields, All three films are in deadly competition with on another. You can all come on her predictions and say TF will bomb. but will it. Making predictions about the success or failure on any film is madness. Remember there were those who predicted the early demise of Casion Royale on the basis that they hated Craig being blonde bond. You dont here anything from those people these days not after casino became the most successful bond of all time. Take football, next week Ireland plays wales in Croker. Do I know the result. No. will they fail. possibly. The match has not happened yet.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:36 p.m. CST

    ProfGriffin. No, no, and no.

    by superninja

    Actually, there is a line in the script where Starscream challenges Megatron's authority, but that's it. There is no character development for any of the robots. Prime has no personality, he does not come across as John Wayne as a robot, he comes across as an aloof, cold alien like they all do except for Bumblebee who comes across like a puppy dog. Soundwave is creepy, but not in the way you would like.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Emeraldboy

    by Lost Prophet

    I don't think anyone is saying it will bomb. The general consensus is that there are enough cretins with low standards out there to support it through a big opening weekend. I thought the opinion was that it SHOULD bomb- but probably won't. Could well be wrong though.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:54 p.m. CST

    How will this affect Global Warming!!!

    by Douche Baggins

    I hope at the end of the movie Optimus looks into the camera "But seriously folks, the real battle is Global Warming! Start using candles and poop outdoors, it'll help this big ball of wackiness spinning for years to come." Then he farts the Star Spangled Banner as the credits roll.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:56 p.m. CST

    TB'ers Use Too Much Fancy Language, But

    by georges garvaren

    I think Transformers the movie will be as appropriate of a creation as the cartoon was. All I hope is that they make great toys for the kiddies to piss their pants over. Playing with toys is what made Transformers great; without toys, not so fun. Still fun, but lacking like sex with just your gym sock.

  • March 14, 2007, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Hey PharteGoddPrime...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Did you know Man of Stool came back? I think you have some 'splaining to do.

  • March 14, 2007, 1 p.m. CST

    Douche Baggins

    by georges garvaren

    Pee came out my nose! Yep, I drink my own distilled piss. Also, I wonder what kind of fart Optimus would have, since he doesn't eat human food. Does he eat food? What is his source of nourishment? Does he use cutlery? Does he burp? Does he excrete waste? Fuck you Baggins! Do you see the worms you've let loose?

  • March 14, 2007, 1 p.m. CST

    come on guys

    by Kloipy

    I know we all love things from our childhood and we don't want to see it ruined by some hollywood bastard just looking to make money off of something we buy in to. but think about it logically. This is a movie about giant robots that turn into cars, helicopters, ect. It's an action movie. If you want character development, watch an indie, but if you want to see some cool ass robots fuck shit up, go see this. It's not supposed to be deep or anything. It's about fucking robots.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Actually, character development is pretty much

    by superninja

    a key ingredient in any movie, genius. All good action movies have it. No one wants robots sitting around picking lint out of their bellybutton listening to a soundtrack by a musician who almost committed suicide - that's an indie movie. We want an action movie that is faithful to the concept it is based on. That concept is about a planetary war over dwindling resources which spills over into guerilla warfare far from their homeworld. Where the good guys have to prevent the bad guys from destroying another world, even at the expense of their own survival. Actually very topical, wouldn't you say? But Mr. Bay would rather make Gremlins with robots.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Too Transformers-ey!!

    by boba_rob

    Yeah, take that!!

  • March 14, 2007, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Yack is right. That is actually an important point.

    by superninja

    Those great sequences cannot be longer than 2-3 minutes. And the action-filled finale is a real cliched stinker of an ending.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:16 p.m. CST

    yeah but gremlins was cool

    by Kloipy

    i'm just saying, what do you expect out of a live action transformers movie? Esp. one made by Bay? It's not going to be faithful to anything. But what's the point of getting so upset about it. We can't do anything to change it. Oh well. Just don't see it. Don't complain about it. It's only a movie

  • March 14, 2007, 1:16 p.m. CST

    I'm so disappointed in you TF geeks.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    This is the most anemic Transformers TB ever. Hell, we even have an appearance by PharteGoddPrime and 127 posts is the best you can do???!!!<P>Where's your G1 Transformers passion, man? Where's the passion???!!!<P>Come on. I want to see more of you geeks claim that you already know how this movie is going to turn out. I want to see more of you talk out of your ass about the script. I want to see more of you bitch about how Mike Bay doesn't understand the "property" or the "concept". I want to see more of you accuse Harry & Co. of being on the take for this film. Come on you loons. I know you've got it in ya.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:16 p.m. CST

    It's rated R, but Spielberg's influence got it a PG-13

    by AlwaysThere

    Thanks joblo.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Not to mention that the Matrix is a MacGuffin

    by superninja

    and is akin to the Cosmic Key in He-Man: The Movie. Remember how great He-Man was? Well, this movie is like He-Man, but with better special effects.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Plus...

    by just pillow talk

    it's not "about fucking robots." Therein lies part of the problem. It's about football flashbacks and 'little bunny' comments.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:19 p.m. CST

    I know

    by Lost Prophet

    it's as if everyone isn't really trying.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Yeah, I should stop complaining about movies

    by superninja

    at a website famed for complaining about movies. Why don't you go to the Superior Movie Watcher's website and drink tea with your pinky out with your fellows?

  • March 14, 2007, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius, so a script is not indicative

    by superninja

    of the final product, OR the filmmaker's previous work. Hmmm....interesting logic....interesting...

  • March 14, 2007, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Damnit, computer being slow

    by Lost Prophet

    That post was to MNG.<p> I thought it was about 1 boy and his car? didn't know it was about football flashbacks and fluffy bunnies. <p> I seriously think we should emancipate the robots- help our enslaved siblings shake off the evil imperialistic shackles of our shameful past and rightfully take their place sitting at the front of the bus.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:22 p.m. CST

    sorry yack

    by Kloipy

    i just figured they didn't have that problem anymore, they don't have to sit in the back of the bus cause they can just turn into one

  • March 14, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Kloipy, always a good day to ruin movies

    by Doctor_Sin

    Before they ruin themselves!

  • March 14, 2007, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Superninja

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    This is the part that cracks me up about the script. The writers have said countless times that the structure to the incorrectly dated copy that you all have read is essentially the same. However, it has been altered, beefed-up, and made more robot centric. But I love how you all have made up your minds based on this draft copy. Interesting logic. No offense. ;^)

  • March 14, 2007, 1:24 p.m. CST

    I hear Optimus dons a GOTTA TAKE AN OIL LEAK mask

    by Doctor_Sin

    But, I can't be bothered looking through the script, which I have but refuse to read. Anyone know what page it's on?

  • March 14, 2007, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Kloipy, Gremlins was cute. I like Gremlins.

    by superninja

    Let me explain it to you one more time. In Transformers, the robots are the main characters, not the humans. Michael Bay has done the opposite here. And all of the human characters are typical Bay cliches found in any of his other films, so nothing special there. What distinguished Tranformers to begin with is that all of the main characters were the robots - not the humans.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Doc, you know what I'm talking about

    by Kloipy

    at least someones on my side hahaha

  • March 14, 2007, 1:24 p.m. CST

    GIANT ROBOTS!

    by blackwood

    Woot.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:26 p.m. CST

    superninja

    by Kloipy

    I guess there is more to it than meets the eye

  • March 14, 2007, 1:29 p.m. CST

    JOKER KILLS LITTLE VIETNAMESE GIRL SNIPER

    by Doctor_Sin

    And the Marines march off singing "The Mickey Mouse Club March."

  • March 14, 2007, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius, I reserve the possibility

    by superninja

    that more has been added. But given the structure, and that it is the same as you mention, I frankly have to call bullshit. Otherwise, they would've had to cut scenes that it appears they have filmed TO THE LETTER OF THE DRAFT SCRIPT. If they have changed around the dialogue of the robots - great - but they were hardly in the film to begin with! Not to mention, these guys have been caught being dishonest before. Do you see the problem I am having here? I really don't think it is unreasonable, you just don't care about it that much which is fine.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:31 p.m. CST

    all i'm saying is

    by Kloipy

    that in this day and age it's all about money and CGI, no one seems to care about the art of filmaking. So why get your expectations up about something you should already know won't deliver

  • March 14, 2007, 1:33 p.m. CST

    I mean, if they have made changes to the script

    by superninja

    shouldn't there be some evidence that a change was actually made instead of every piece of footage filmed confirming that they filmed THAT SCRIPT to a tee?

  • March 14, 2007, 1:40 p.m. CST

    the only good movie to look forward to is

    by Kloipy

    The Mist, hands fucking down

  • March 14, 2007, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Thanks, Kloipy.

    by superninja

    I'm going to write that down. It's profound.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:49 p.m. CST

    It's not about raising expectations for this

    by Lost Prophet

    steaming, fetid, rancid pile of dung. It's about not lowering expectations (and therefore standards) down to the level where the fucking unacceptably awful becomes passable. <p>If that makes sense- which I'm not sure it does.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:53 p.m. CST

    guys, i understand what you are saying

    by Kloipy

    i really do. I'm just saying, it's not like this hasn't happened a hundred times before. And it's gonna happen again with something we all love and cherished. But we can't stop it. Regardless, people are going to shovel this shit in like candy. The studios know they can make money off of it, so they do whatever they think will please teenagers and thus we suffer. But unless we can raise millions of dollars to do it ourselves, it won't change

  • March 14, 2007, 1:53 p.m. CST

    So...about the gun?

    by ProfGriffin

    Does Megatron have a large cannon on his arm? SIGH It seems like my gut reaction waaaay back when this was announced is sadly correct. Remember Van Helsing? (I know I know...but work with me here for a moment)...why that did NOT work was it was about the updated Van Helsing character and NOT the Monsters. In a Universal Monster movie, the movie is ABOUT the MONSTERS...the genesis of transformation, how they became monsters to begin with. The reason I brought up Van Hel-Stink is that I see this being the main problem with this film. If (and I can only go by the rumors and what I've heard from people who've READ a script) the movie is indeed about the HUMAN characters and the Cybertron War come to earth is just a platform/tilt to move the action...then die hard fans will be very sad. The movie should start on Cybertron...and stay with those characters. It will be loud and the FX will be really neat. I guess SUNBOW animation was the only REAL way to combine good designs, cool characters with thoughtful, entertaining compelling storytelling. In a maintream movie, I guess there just isn't enough trust in the audience to play along.

  • March 14, 2007, 1:56 p.m. CST

    whats with all the 80's cartoon hate

    by argento123

    The 80's was great for cartoons, much better than today. Thundercats and transformers may have been nothing more than toy commercials but they weren't the only cartoons. What about the mysterious cities of gold, Ulysses 31 and dungeons and dragons. Now if someone made them into films I would go see them, Bay and transformers I'm sill dodgy with.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Look at it this way

    by Kloipy

    There are few people who actually have good taste in movies. But then again people actually paid money to see a Larry the Cable Guy movie. And those people are gonna keep hollywood dumbed down for the Bush crowd.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:11 p.m. CST

    That's just it, superninja.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    What have you seen? A few moments that happen to match up to a couple of PARTICULAR scenes. That's it. No one but the filmmakers know EXACTLY what's in store.<P>Look, I find it incredibly funny the amount of buzz & negativity this movie has simultaneously generated. But the Transfans make the obsessive Star Wars crowd look sane. As someone who enjoyed TFers as a kid, I have no idea what it is these people expect from this property after all this time. It's become ludicrous.<P>I think the entire franchise died with Prime and Megatron in the original animated film. Everything afterwards has been rubbish. RUBBISH. But even I've read segments of the script and I can honestly say, you're not getting spoonfed anything worse than you were by the original show.<P>So, for all intents and purposes, it looks like we are not only getting a restart for everyone's precious G1 mythos but the whole concept in general. That's something I can appreciate as they bring this into a live action film. Personally, I don't think it will be any worse or any better than "300". But we can always hope to be pleasantly surprised.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Oh the industry never listens to internet hype?

    by IndustryKiller!

    Well I have proof to the contrary. Christian bale. It's common knowledge that Christian bale ultimately won the role of Batman due to the internet fervor over it. Also the original JJ Abrhams script of Superman was thrown out for the same reason. Too bad Superman: Returns was still an entirely forgettable bore, but I'll take a bore of the 80's B-movie badness of X3. So maybe it didn't help us here but there are instances where the good guys actually win.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:25 p.m. CST

    lost profit

    by emeraldboy

    If haters go to this film. Come on here and say what an awful film it is. Do they have low standards? They paid to see a movie that they rubbished. seems a bit hypocritical to me.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:29 p.m. CST

    no- I'm not being hypocritical

    by Lost Prophet

    if anyone that is professing burning hatred of this film does go and see it then they are stupid beyond belief, and partially to blame for this tide of dreck. <p>The only way I will see this is if a little chinese person shows up in the pub flogging knocked off DVD's. Otherwise- fuck that I have better things to do with the better part of a fucking tenner than waste it on Michael Bay's coke fund. <p> pah, stuck at work waiting for a call and AICN is being damned slow and flaky tonight.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:32 p.m. CST

    There were five films out of The 50+ I saw last

    by emeraldboy

    that I didnt go to were because of the trailers. Imagine, me and You, the holiday, Failure to Launch and Devil wears Prada. The all looked shite so i didnt go to them. If you dont like this movie then dont go to it.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:37 p.m. CST

    TINO!

    by polyh3dron

    TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO

  • March 14, 2007, 2:38 p.m. CST

    I'm not going to

    by Lost Prophet

    glad we agree. <p>As I said- if I do see this it will be on a pirated copy, that I will pass on to the next fool, as this has the added bonus of "hurting" the film (or whatever tehy say in the ads). But I doubt it as I got badly ripped off by the buggers recently and don't feel like shelling out again.

  • March 14, 2007, 2:38 p.m. CST

    TINO!

    by polyh3dron

    TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO TINO

  • March 14, 2007, 3:10 p.m. CST

    ginrei724

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Quote: "The 80s TF movie had a lot more balls than Bay's."<P>Really? You say that in the past tense...as if you've seen Bay's movie already.

  • March 14, 2007, 3:18 p.m. CST

    ganymede2010 invokes the Holy Grail of Sci-Fi films...

    by Doctor_Sin

    ...and gets busted. Man, even people working ON the SW films (except Lucas) thought it was gonna be a dumb kids' movie. But, there was something there beyond the whiz-bang Flash Gordon "rocket jockey" space opera. There was heart.<p>The only heart in Bay's films is the one you have to drive a stake into in order to stop it from birthing more crap films.<p>TF may end up on the level of ID4, but no way will it be some mega-epic like SW.

  • March 14, 2007, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Madness Emerald Boy?

    by purplemonkeydw

    This! Is! Spar-taaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

  • March 14, 2007, 3:32 p.m. CST

    True,

    by emeraldboy

    tis a free country. Now hands up who wants a sequel to cabin fever. well we are going to get it anyway and its called Cabin Fever 2: spring fever. Rider Strong is in it. he is on the run from killer virus, which turns up at a high school prom. It star Judah Friedlander, Mark Bouchardt and larry Fesseden, Noah Segen, Rusty Kelley, Alexi Wasser. Infected Water goes to a school prom and school teens get infected and die. Rider to the rescue.

  • March 14, 2007, 4 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius, no, not just clips.

    by superninja

    But set reports, the actor's own comments, the comments of the filmmakers, reading the script, all taken as a whole. I mean, I know you think I'm just being irrational, but I'm not. <p> Sometimes a turd is just a turd, good Gaius.</p>

  • March 14, 2007, 4:05 p.m. CST

    I hope they take our feedback & fix everything in Pt.2

    by GibsonUSA Returns

    Hopefully they will fix everything if there's a sequel. No more flames, lips, Camaros, or any of that other junk, and better robot designs that resemble their alternate form.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:08 p.m. CST

    hmmm...

    by DeadPanWalking

    I'm starting to get a Godzilla remake feel about this.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Cabin fever is/was

    by emeraldboy

    about a virus. a forest. group of teens. they get infected. one of them Paul goes to get help. Meets the creepy locals(the scene with the blonde haired kid was weird). This was directed by Eli Roth makes Bay looks like genius. It came out the same time as Wrong turn which was also set in a forrest and was also about a group of teens who get bumped off. crap movies both. But as far as i know, no one has greenlit Wrong turn 2 , thankfully. If you all think Mike bay is bad. Ask yourself this: why has Roth got a career. QT is a fan and produced Hostel. For the record bay's early films are better. Pearl Barbour was where it all went tits up.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:42 p.m. CST

    And no one makes Star Wars prequels fans

    by superninja

    or LOTR fans look sane. It's just not mathmatically possible. ;)

  • March 14, 2007, 4:46 p.m. CST

    "Mathematically", before the spelling Luftwaffe get

    by superninja

    to me first.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Okay, so I've held off on reading the script...

    by Childe Roland

    ...in order to maintain some degree of objectivity, but I did read these teaser footage descriptions and now I'm a little concerned.<p>Why in the world would Optimus and the other Autobots ever transform into bot mode near the kid's house?<p>The whole point of Transformers (if you believe the theme song) is "Robots in Disguise." The stealth/disguise element of the autobots should be even higher played than that of the decepticons (who, as we saw, had no problem making their presence known once they'd Trojan Horsed their way onto the army base). They aren't born and bred warriors. They're worker bots who rely on their alt forms to blend in with their surroundings and initiate guerilla-style operations. That's such a fuindamental element to Transformer lore that a gaping logical hole like the one described in the second scene simply to serve a comedic contrivance is pretty much inexcusable.<p>This is exactly the kind of hare-brined shit that's going to make me forget how okay I've been thus far with interpretive character designs and the scrapping of particular elements of the G1 story.<p>Why even have a fucking alt. mode if you're just going to clodhop through suburban backyards in the form of a 30-foot-tall robot?

  • March 14, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Yackbacker, ginrei724, & superninja

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I'll say it right here, right now: if "Transformers" sucks, I will gladly say so in Talkback AFTER I see it. I've got absolutely no problem with that. Yackbacker has understood my position on this for quite awhile now (thanks Yack - although I thought you were a bit harsh on ol' Quint!)<P>ginrei74 - let's get one thing straight, I have never been an apologist for Michael Bay et al. So, you can take that apology comment and cram it. In fact, as some will testify (i.e. Yackbacker, Hairy Nutsack, Child Rolande, etc.), I have been one of the few, lonely voices of optimism regarding this movie despite Bay's involvement. (For some reason, I happen to think his trademark penchant for big action is custom tailored for this flick.) But I have repeatedly gone to the mat with the likes of PharteGoddPrime and Don Murphy while also stating my disappointment over some of the robot designs. So, there you go.<P>Point of interest: one of the reasons I post in these Transformers TBs is because of my hopeful fantasy that this movie will be worthwhile and I can sit here and rub it in the haters' collective faces. And though the odds do look stacked against me, I will stand my ground until victory. Or humiliation. Either way.<P>;^)

  • March 14, 2007, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Oh, and I'll go ahead and vouch for MNG's...

    by Childe Roland

    ...cautious optimism thus far. He's been like me in his stance on this movie in that regard. Although I'm starting to lean in the pre-pissed direction after reading about that Autobots in the Backyard sequence.<p>That said, good to see the regulars out and about. Feels like ages since we've had a good Transformers dust-up, and now we've got multiple threads going at once.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:52 p.m. CST

    I confess - I was into Armageddon until they landed

    by Doctor_Sin

    on the asteroid, then it stopped dead in its tracks as anything remotely interesting or fun or anything. Then, it made me question the "iconic" camera set-ups early on, then the "Right Stuff"-ism of the astronaut training stuff...then I began to question why NASA would train roughnecks to be spacemen, rather than teach a couple spacemen (with Air Force backgrounds) to operate a drill.<p>When I woke up in the hospital, the doctors asked me if I was ok after being dead for two minutes.<p>My epiphany came at that moment and I realized I had been hornswoggled and shanghaied by Bay's vicious chicanery. Yes, I had been enjoying this action film. Then, I realized I was watching shit. It was like when Grasshopper finally took the pebbles from the monk's hand.

  • March 14, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Thanks for reminding me to see updates on Wrong Turn II

    by JackPumpkinhead

    It's apparently complete already - that's quick! Even in January it was still being shot. Anyway, so far it looks interesting. Not nearly as good as the wonderful original "Wrong Turn", but not bad for a sequel.

  • March 14, 2007, 5 p.m. CST

    Optimus Prime's 'Face Guard'...

    by 69DUDE

    ..a thoroughly faggotty idea. Prime's face was just that - his face. No face guard. Just like Shockwave was just a glowing eye. No need for a big set of lips to show us, the moronic moviegoing public, just WHERE does his voice come from?? Here my idea: Give Michael Bay a 'Frontal Lobe Guard' to stop him making any more fucking horrible films.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Gayus stays that way

    by DonMurphysTool

    Fact is attack my enthusiasm and genuineness for your phony negativity- every single one of your scrotes will see this film multiple times.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Harry likes EVERYTHING.

    by one9deuce

    Until we get our look at a movie and judge it on it's merits AS a movie. If the consensus is we think it's shit, then Harry usually changes his opinion to match the consensus. I wish I had a dollar for everytime that's happened in the 9 years I've been visiting this site.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:06 p.m. CST

    I am not dogging on you personally, MNG. I

    by superninja

    am just shaking my spear like a good Spartan who hates Michael Bay's Transformers with all of my life as it attempts to invade all that is good and just! LOL. Seriously, it's not going to be good unless you like ignoring all the evidence, but good luck to you in that noble but futile effort.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:07 p.m. CST

    MNG=Athenians.

    by superninja

    Yack, superninja and ginrei724 = SPARTANS!!!!

  • March 14, 2007, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Childe that was in the draft script as well - SHOCKING

    by superninja

    I know. Maybe we should simply refer to the draft script as the shooting script now? I mean, a couple of dialogue changes doesn't make that much difference. And it's a completely ridiculous scene, like if ET was 3 stories tall and hanging outside your window instead of the closet. That is seriously the level of cutesy in that moment.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Harry probably thinks it's great because he

    by superninja

    has no reference to the original work to compare it against and he had bad taste in film as we all well know. :D

  • March 14, 2007, 5:25 p.m. CST

    You also have to understand that after reading THAT

    by superninja

    SCRIPT, the action scenes are not very clever or inventive. As Yack said, they only really show up towards the last 1/4 of the film, it's mostly a chase movie. I'm sure it will be well-crafted, but there is nothing special about the way they are described in the script despite the attempt to make it grab you.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Here's a great idea - how about you don't use

    by superninja

    Suburbia as a setting for your FREAKIN' TRANSFORMERS MOVIE! Giant robots from outerspace and they're in suburbia. What expansive imagination, I am astounded, Jack Kirby is probably spinning in his grave as we speak.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:29 p.m. CST

    This is fantastic. We can have Wonder Woman

    by superninja

    work at a Taco Whiz - comedy gold! Batman can get his Batmobile serviced at the Jiffy Lube. So realistic!

  • March 14, 2007, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Yack, the most frustrating part is that we have

    by superninja

    seen all of the stereotypes used for the human characters a million times over. they had a chance to create something new here audiences have not seen before and they blew it. All they are focusing on really is that they transform as if that is enough to sustain the movie.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:34 p.m. CST

    I used it as a noun. And scarily enough, John

    by superninja

    Byrne actually had Wonder Woman work at a Taco Whiz during his run.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:44 p.m. CST

    This weather is playing havoc on my sinuses.

    by superninja

    I'm not sure I really even hate Bay for this. Bay never really understood TFs he just liked that crappy script. It's really Speilberg who is the big phoney, acting like they were going to be faithful to the source material and of course the turds who wrote THAT SCRIPT!

  • March 14, 2007, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Twice?

    by photoboy

    Are you some sort of masochist?

  • March 14, 2007, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Hahaha....Have you read Quints report? Optimus

    by superninja

    says "My bad". So, that might have been a script change, what do you know? Terrible! Hahahah.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:53 p.m. CST

    No, gany, I did not forget it. It's not a very long

    by superninja

    sequence and then they go silent till about the end of the film. Big deal!

  • March 14, 2007, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Oh dear lord, ganymede, you're serious...

    by Childe Roland

    ...aren't you.<p>So you're telling me the autobots absolutely had to all go together on this little trip to Shia's house? Are autobots the interstellar equivalent of high-school girls who need to go everywhere (including the shitter) in groups? And, even if they are that insecure, why would need to line up, bumper-to-bumper and park in the guy's back yard instead of, say, positioning themselves strategically and covertly at checkpoints encircling the block so they could, I dunno, maybe keep an eye out for that convoy of government vehicles that seems to have no problem pulling up in front of the house?<p>Don't get me wrong. I haven't shifted into full-on pre-hate mode for this yet (that's a guilty pleasure I reserve for Eli Roth films). But Yack is dead on when he says this helps me better understand where he's been coming from all along. <p>At this point, I'm just hoping these cutesy throwaway moments that make no sense are few and far between.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Will a Decepticon say "Oh, snap!"?

    by Doctor_Sin

    Because that's what I'm waiting for.

  • March 14, 2007, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Yack, it just shows you what Spielberg thought

    by superninja

    about TF that he thought that script was acceptable. It's like Gremlins or ET with giant robots. I had forgotten about the stupid glasses thing ripped from National Treasure, but Quint reminded me! Did Optimus say "My bad." in the original draft?

  • March 14, 2007, 6:07 p.m. CST

    Yack, it goes on for three pages, but there

    by superninja

    is not a lot going on in that scene, it is just descriptions of blowing things up while the Con looks for the computer.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Yack, it is tailormade for Bay. It reads like

    by superninja

    they wrote it with him in mind. He basically makes the same film over and over again. At least The Island was actually about something other than getting laid and blowing stuff up.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Transformers will own the summer?

    by Hairy Nutsack

    All bullshit aside, how can anyone think this movie, even if it were good, could own this summer sandwiched between Potter, Spidey, and Pirates?<p> I too will vouch for MNGs optimism, although I still can't understand it.<p> And on that, MNG the reason we maintain the February script either was the shooting script or damn close to it is because they started principal photography very soon after the date on that script. There simply wasn't enough time to make the sweeping changes needed to salvage that god awful thing. We've seen a few changes, like the Energon Cube became the AllSpark, but little changes to names and dialogue always happen, Luke Starkiller anyone?

  • March 14, 2007, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Megatron says "Oh, snap!" before he transforms

    by superninja

    into a giant chandelier, Doc.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:31 p.m. CST

    Saved all the good stuff for third?

    by Hairy Nutsack

    So if they're saving all the good stuff for three does this mean Gany is finally admitting this movie is shit?<p> Discuss.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Chugga chugga chugga TOOT TOOT!

    by Hairy Nutsack

    "My bad!"<p> "What is it Prime?"<p> "I should have terminated Megatron long ago. Now I will make up for that mistake and make him...how do the humans say it...make him take a ride on the pain train!"

  • March 14, 2007, 6:45 p.m. CST

    The movie should've been about Transformers

    by superninja

    and not humans. As it stands, it's just a typical Michael Bay movie with some giant robots in it.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:46 p.m. CST

    Regarding Scripts

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I believe both Orci and Kurtzman have stated numerous times that the script everyone has read (dated Feb-06) was anywhere from 4 to 6 drafts old. Not only that, the Feb-06 date was incorrect. They've also said they are continuing to work on the movie until release = they have yet to cast most of the robots and the TFer dialog still has to be decided upon before final animation. (Funny thing, Bay has even pointed out that just a couple of weeks ago, someone actually hacked into his computer in an effort to obtain a copy of the finalized script.)<P>While we're at it, let's take a trip down Script Memory Lane. Remember the famous scene in "LOTR" where the Fellowship is trying to escape Moria? Well, to this day, the script reads only that the Fellowship escapes down a flight of stairs. That's it. Of course we all know now how magnificent it turned out to be. But can you imagine if you guys read that segment of the script beforehand? I'm sure the intense description of "running down stairs" would have left a LOT to be desired.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Hairy Nutsack

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    "I too will vouch for MNGs optimism, although I still can't understand it."<P>Ha, Ha! Thanks Hairy. Seriously, you should side on me with this one. You know, like we did against JJ4P/Vog/Mr. Mean Gaius/by by. When we stand together, we can achieve great things, man!

  • March 14, 2007, 6:54 p.m. CST

    MNG, you continue with your Athenian sophistry

    by superninja

    when there is some azz that needs whoopin'! The "famous" LOTR scene is a gap written in the script to give the filmmaker freedom. Now, is it possible that this is the case with TF? Sure, but it's not probable. They filmed that script, they may have tweaked some dialogue ("My bad."), but they filmed THAT SCRIPT! If there was really room to do the kinds of things you are suggesting, it would still be irrelevant because the characters, plot and scope of the story will still suck. I mean, did you think to yourself, "Gosh, I'd really love to see giant alien robots from outerspace in suburbia. Just the possibilities!" No, no, you didn't.

  • March 14, 2007, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Correction: side WITH me...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    <P>

  • March 14, 2007, 6:59 p.m. CST

    For purists, I'm sure they were twisting their

    by superninja

    panties over escape down the stairs. However, did the rest of the script and all of the characterizations suck? Were they completely unfaithful to Tolkien's work? Noooo..... Not a great comparison, MNG.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:01 p.m. CST

    It's like with X-Men. People hated the costumes.

    by superninja

    But those of us that knew better realized from the bits of information that they actually got most of the characterizations right so we were willing to give it a chance. You can't say the same in this case.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:01 p.m. CST

    You've got it backwards, superninja.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I'm the Spartan and you guys are backing me into the pass!<P>Dude, they've already admitted that most of the scenes in THAT SCRIPT still made it to the final shoot. But that does NOT mean that the only thing they tweaked was some here-and-there dialog. And what else have I suggested they done? Have I described any new set pieces or monologues? But you keep on believing that they shot that script SCENE FOR SCENE, WORD FOR WORD which I find funny. Why? Because you're still gonna go see this movie. ;^)

  • March 14, 2007, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Let's analyze their statements MNG...

    by Hairy Nutsack

    For a moment let's forget the fact that we've seen more than enough in the way of set reports, pictures, and trailers to know that that script is fairly accurate and let's analyze the statement by the writers that this draft was super old and the date was wrong.<p> People were hating on the designs but the second that script hit the streets it really hit the fan. How to counter negative buzz? Lie about the script, tell people it's an old script and the date is wrong, it's a PDF containing scanned JPEGs of a photocopy of the script, this is not a simple Word document, but yeah someone changed the date. So who would feel motivated to 1) scan a 130+ page script, 2) photo edit out the date and replace it with a newer date, and 3) put together a nice PDF package for all to enjoy? Who would do all that? No one that's who, those guy's are lying about the date period. So that puts us back at February and mere weeks before principal photogrpahy again.<p> Now let's recall the fact that I asked you to forget for a moment - we've seen more than enough in the way of set reports, pictures, and trailers to know that that script is fairly accurate.<p> Your honor the prosecution rests.<p> "My bad." TOOT TOOT

  • March 14, 2007, 7:04 p.m. CST

    Is it faithful to the spirit of the thing?

    by superninja

    Now, some people will say "Wah, it's just a cartoon for yelling toys, "Blah, it's giant robots beating the crap out of each other - what do you want?" <p>All they've proven is that: 1) they don't know anything about Transformers, 2) that they don't care about the property. Which is fair enough, but it's not like people who actually care about the mythology and the characters should hold their opinions in some kind of high regard.</p>

  • March 14, 2007, 7:04 p.m. CST

    superninja

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I did not mention one thing regarding the characterization of Tolkien's work. All I described was FOTR's script description of the Fellowship's escape. The less you try to force upon my words, the better chance you will have of understand that not all action sequences are going to be spelled out for you letter by letter.<P>Surely you can understand the point I was making, right?

  • March 14, 2007, 7:06 p.m. CST

    MNG, I am not going to see this movie.

    by superninja

    I like the characters too much. I broke myself of this habit some time ago.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Hairy Nutsack

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    You are a magnificent bastard. God bless ya.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Yes, I understand you're point, but it's an

    by superninja

    invalid comparison. I have told you my opinions are taken as a whole. I am not analyzing one specific action sequence and taking it to task - the problem is with everything in the entire script. In the context of your LOTR example, only the major freaks could get up in arms about that description given the quality of the rest of the work. And an even worse example, in this case, given that they've shown the action scenes the most and they're right out of THAT SCRIPT! Are you telling me that they completely rewrote the last 1/4 of the movie? I guess it's possible, but all indicators suggest, no.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:16 p.m. CST

    Well that's true....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    I am both magnificent and occassionally a bastard. Thanks I think. LOL<p> Ninja's really got a point here, I was watching the Serenity extras and Joss was describing how the planet fall was described in the script versus what the FX people gave him. All the script said was the ship was falling through the sky, but the FX people added a bad ass spinning effect to the fall, Joss liked it so much he added it to the script and then filmed an extra scene showing the effects of this spin inside the cockpit. This my friends is called collaborative filmmaking, and it was certainly much the same in the stairs scene in LOTR.<p> chugga chugga

  • March 14, 2007, 7:28 p.m. CST

    "the problem is with everything in the entire script."

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Well, since that's your opinion and you're taking it as a whole, there is really nothing further to say.<P>My point regarding the LOTR scene seems to be lost on you still. It was brought up as an example of the types of scenes that are written very plainly and poorly in the beginning stages. Several comments in this TB were about the cliched and mundane action sequences contained in the TFer script. I referenced the LOTR script as a means of referencing scenes that appear much differently on film than how they read on the page.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Hairy, I don't know if you realized it but...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...you just sort of made my point.<P>chugga, chugga.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:31 p.m. CST

    TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO!

    by finky089

    TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO!

  • March 14, 2007, 7:37 p.m. CST

    Never too late to bring the hate

    by finky089

    Not on AICN. <p>The script sucked. Bay's films fail to impress (unless I'm looking for big explosions and no story). And the robots, for the most part, look like thalidomide guyvers. <p> fuck this shit.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:44 p.m. CST

    they actually got most of the characterizations right..

    by finky089

    Superninja was right when s/he said: <p>"But those of us that knew better realized from the bits of information that they actually got most of the characterizations right so we were willing to give it a chance. You can't say the same in this case." <p> I'm certainly not a "purist" and only really care about G1 Transformer cannon, but when you miss the proverbial mark by as much as these guys did with TF, it's just cashing in on the name rather than trying to bring the source material to the "big screen."

  • March 14, 2007, 7:48 p.m. CST

    Well you both had a point....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    I'm sure we can pick apart individual elements from any script, and I know for a fact that "final" drafts aren't always/usually what we see on screen. Case in point, Eddie Olmos destroying that expensive ship prop in Maelstrom, NOT SCRIPTED!<p> So yes you have a point, but Ninja's point of the overall script being bad is also spot on. There are a few things in there that are likeable, but we can also say that about most movies we know to be bad.<p> Reminds me of something funny, the newspaper ads for movies always have those quotes touting how great a movie is for this or that reason right? Well way back when Highlander II came out the only positive quote they had on the ad was "...spectacular explosions...", I kid you not. Pretty much all I'm expecting from Transformers. LOL

  • March 14, 2007, 7:54 p.m. CST

    Olmos and the Ship Prop

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    No kidding, man! And apparently that thing cost upwards of a hundred grand!!! Talk about being in the moment.

  • March 14, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    You know what, fuck this geek shit.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Okay everyone, Cowboy Up and immediately go to WWTDD.COM and witness the beauty of Sienna Miller topless on a beach. Like I said, fuck this geek shit, time for everyone to go give their prostate a work out.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Um... gany is funny...

    by nonsensical

    He calls the lines in Star Wars cheesy, but mind you it was written more than 30 years ago so it prolly wasn't as cheesy when it was written. Still, Yack has a point that a single line shouldn't make or break a film, but if it's riddled with cheese then it might stink a little. <p> You see, in 2007 we should probably expect more in a story, and we aren't going to get that here, but maybe we should demand it. Show the studios that story, not 'splosions, and effects make the film. <p> I think that more studios need to start really focusing on the story in the first film if they plan to go three films. Afterall, if they think this thing will make it to 3 then they are making a huge gamble. Especially, if the first one is crap, and I'm pretty sure it is, then no one will go see the second unless it gets an overhaul. Which at that point the story of the first film goes out the window. Then if they stick to the story of the first and the first one is crap, which again in this case it is, and the second is crap, then no one in their right mind will see the third. (If it gets made) Unless they just adore seeing crap. <p> Personally I would have been happier if this had kept with the G1 premise, two factions in an intersellar war are awakened millions of years after crash landing into the earth to resume fighting, then we might have seen something cool for a trilogy. Autobots fight Decepticons, both sides are feared and unaccepted by the people of earth, both sides loose soldiers, Auotbots loose more soldiers protecting the humans and are about to loose when the now grateful humans reveal they had discovered Jetfire and a few other Autobots and Decepticons that were burried around the earth. Some are not able to be restored and in the end the three other Autobots help them win and gain the trust of the humans as the Decepticons retreat in apparent defeat only to return at the end of the film with surprisingly massive reinforcements from Cybertron overpowering the Autobots. <p> Film makers could have left us hanging there with the Autobots outnumbered and with no way to get help. Film two could have led to the construction of either the fan favorite Dinobots, or the Arielbots in order to cope with the rampaging Decpticons that continue to invade earth through the spacebridge. When all looks lost as the Decepticons keep defeating the Autobots on earth and Prime is near dead at the hands of Megatron and his horde Magnus and the Autobots from Cybertron arrive through the spacebridge to save the day. Decepticons defeated, Autobots saved and both sides on Cybertron now aware of the war being fought on earth, maybe Prime dies in this one... maybe he's just out of commission <p> Film three could wrap the whole thing up, Magnus maybe kills off Megatron, Prime appears to be dying with not hope. Decepticons start out in disarray under Starscream's leadership. Magnus not quite up to the task after the potential loss of his brother sets in again. (See the character has already "lost" his brother once and come to terms. He finds out his brother is alive only to loose him again in minutes. THAT's actual characterization.) Anyway fights continue on both Cybertron and Earth and some other bot steps up to the challenge, not Hot Rod, maybe Grimlock who despises the humans and doesn't care if they get hurt duing the fights. Autobots crush the Decepticons in the first fight, but start loosing after that when Shockwave takes over. Grimlock doesn't get why. Magnus realizes that humans have a role to play in this war and they serve as the key to winning. Magnus rises to the challenge. Shockwave and Starscream are crushed. Autobots and humans win, the war seems to end. in the closing minutes Prime appears to awaken... Skywarp or some other Decepticon has rebuilt Megatron. The trilogy ends with a possible fourth installment alluded to. <p> Pipe dream I know, but that would have been something worth panning out over three films. If the story was solid and robot-centric then I would have loved this, but where they hell do you go with a coming of age story about a boy and his car that happens to transform into a robot? Hmm... the next film will be about a boy and his do.. I mean robot. At the end Sam will have to put his do... er robot down after it goes crazy and kills a man. <p> sigh... I'm indulging in flights of fancy here as I dream of a Transformers movie about the Transformers, so forgive me. I'm just saying that this script is crap on a cracker and it leads no where... not even into another film. I would have rather had a very robot-centric film that had some sort of plot. If the script and story were awesome then I might have forgiven the shitty designs some, but it's shitastic all the way around. <p> What I'm really saying is that story matters and makes up the heart of the film. If that sucks balls then what hope does the film have? Even if the effects are fantastic they are just window dressing in a home made of shit, and last time I checked that doesn't make a great film.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST

    nonsensical speaks truth **SPOILERS**

    by Hairy Nutsack

    They wrap this story up in a very neat little bow by the end. All of the bad guys are dead except for Starscream, and the almighty AllSpark is found, what's left for the Autobots to do but for going back to Cybertron and rebuilding their population?<p> That's amazing really, there's really nowhere to go from here, without some ongoing drive, the cartoon had them needing to stockpile Energon, what story is left to tell? The next movie will be some bullshit resurrecting of Megatron and co. for some more mindless action that will have absolutely no reason to happen.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:16 p.m. CST

    Thanks...

    by nonsensical

    I'm sure my illness addled brainmeats needed the clarity. I have the cold Yack is getting, okay I'm in the middle of the serious flu so I ramble. Ack!, I gotta get back to work again. I'll be up all night again which sucks when you are not well.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:18 p.m. CST

    VENOM ONLINE

    by RetroActive

    Check it out @ Dark Horizons. http://tinyurl.com/383ths

  • March 14, 2007, 8:27 p.m. CST

    I'll but this piece of shit movie on DVD...

    by Optimus Murphy

    ...just so I can chuck it into the industrial paper shredder at work. Fuck, this thing will be terrible.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:36 p.m. CST

    this is why i hate that damn cartoon

    by shadowsdance

    because most of us saw it in our formative years, every time we go back to it we can't help but see it through the rosy lens of childhood, but guess what? the cartoon wasn't some piece of highbrow entertainment. Generally it was extraordinarily simple. So i am highly amused by the "outrage" over Michael Bay and the dog pee jokes. This movie can and will make loads of money simply because it is a competently done blockbuster, but it isn't going to win an Oscar because IT'S ABOUT GIANT ROBOTS INVADING EARTH. So try to enjoy and let the whole "too good for a regular joe movie" stuff go, because it's pretty tiresome.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:38 p.m. CST

    ganymede2010

    by one9deuce

    Wow, you are going to be severely disappointed on July 4th!

  • March 14, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST

    shadowsdance....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    I already covered your stupid as hell argument in this very thread, but let me try it again for the next moron who thinks about using it.<p> Spiderman was just a stupid children's comicbook, sure glad Sam Raimi didn't approach Spiderman with Bay's mentality.<p> Lord of the Rings is just a big, dumb story about a buncha midgets, sure glad Peter Jackson didn't approach LOTR with Bay's mentality.<p> Batman is yet another stupid ass kid's comicbook, sure glad Chris Nolan didn't approach Batman with Bay and Schumacher's mentality.<p> Should I go on? Do I need to? Just because something beloved from our childood (and beyond) was meant for children doesn't mean it should be pissed on. They could have taken TF and made it something more than it was, not fucking less, like Raimi, Jackson, and Nolan managed to do.

  • March 14, 2007, 8:47 p.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime

    by one9deuce

    You're full of shit. Period. <p> TRANSFORMERS will be lucky to finish in the top 5 of the summer box office. And it won't be within 100 million of any of the top 3, guaranteed. <p> So the industry doesn't care what we think huh? I'm sure that all writers/producers/directors are really proud to be part of films that are RIDICULED. GodDAMN you're an asshat!

  • March 14, 2007, 8:54 p.m. CST

    it sounds like there is enough good stuff

    by INWOsuxRED

    for another trailer. That is really all they need to make a ton of money. Another really good trailer will make this a blockbuster that no amount of logic and reason can derail. Every Summer has at least one MONSTER TURD that can't be stopped, and Transformers is looking more and more like that turd.

  • March 14, 2007, 9 p.m. CST

    YackBacker

    by HeWhoCannotBeNamed

    My wife and I would love to meet you and buy you a shot & a brew. You make us laugh our proverbial asses off. Get well soon brother.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:01 p.m. CST

    Hairy Nutsack

    by one9deuce

    Umm, have you READ The Lord of the Rings? It's very complex and not a childrens book by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe you're confusing it with The Hobbit. In fact, Peter Jackson's films are really dumbed down from the books.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Hairy Nutsack

    by shadowsdance

    ummm okay.... Lord of the Rings is one of the most highly respected set of books ever written. Period. Spiderman started out as your basic superhero story and evolved into one man's struggle to balance his responsibilities and his yearning for the easy life of fun he thought everyone else had. Every man who becomes an adult goes through that. Batman? Kid loses his parents and that tragic horrific moment defines his life? Dude? Are you seriously comparing Lord of the Rings to Transformers? Look I'm not saying that Transformers as a kid sucked, no way at all, but you have to approach it as what it is, a cartoon ABOUT GIANT ROBOTS ON EARTH. It's meant to be fun and take you to a place where you don't have to think about the daily grind. Why? Because all the deep themes people contribute to the f-ing cartoon are just that, their contributions, and guess what? NO ONE WILL EVER LIVE UP TO YOUR IMAGINATION! Sorry. All I'm saying is show a little self-awareness and realize that a show based on a cartoon to sell a toy line simply isn't that deep of material. I'm always amazed at the attempt to turn every f-ing movie into "serious art". Guess what, 300 is just as much art as The Ice Storm. Just different kinds. There is nothing wrong with Transformers becoming a "big budget thrill ride." Respect my friend, is seeing something oftentimes for what it is, not what your boyhood dreams made it out to be.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Did somebody say TINO?

    by S-Mart shopper

    Damn you finky!And Michael Bay!

  • March 14, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST

    1-9-deuce turd

    by DonMurphysTool

    Dipshit- the film will be in the top three. Then I would invite you to kiss my ass but you aren't worthy

  • March 14, 2007, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Bullshit....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    First off Lord of the Rings is indeed both incredible, full of depth, and great literature, but until those movies came out only people like us who knew this thought it was anything more than that "Dungeons & Dragons midget story." Peter Jackson could have made something stupid like Eragon and most people would have never even known the difference. Instead Jackson treated the source material with respect and look at what we got.<p> No I'm not comparing LOTR to TF, what I am comparing are the approaches to both franchises.<p> I'll make a better comparison. Battlestar Galactica was the greatest television show ever made....when I was 8 years old. Now that I am an adult it is virtually unwatchable. The original BSG started off with the deaths of billions (tragedy not unlike Batman's beginnings) and then took us on a crazy rollercoaster ride through uncharted space. WHEEE!<p> So Ron Moore comes along and successfully adapts the basic story of Galactica into a serious adult tale and loses all the camp of the OS. This is how you modernize something beloved from our childhoods.<p> So now I ask everyone, would you rather they had taken this beloved kid's cartoon and elevated it far above and beyond what it started off as or are you honestly happy we're just getting another explosion filled popcorn movie? If your vote is the popcorn movie then you're a complete and utter imbecile.

  • March 14, 2007, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Top 3 of 2007

    by S-Mart shopper

    SpiderMan 3. Pirates 3. Harry Potter 5 or 6, whatever it is now.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Shrek 3 could be one of those too.

    by S-Mart shopper

  • March 14, 2007, 10:27 p.m. CST

    hairy nutsack

    by shadowsdance

    first off this is the last time I will probably post at aintitcool. why? cause you aren't actually listening you're just saying the same thing over and over again. So here we go, one last try. Battlestar galactica started off with the death of billions. That's what you said right? that, in literature and writing is called the hook. Secondly, look around, and if you find anyone, anyone who says whatsiname adapted Battlestar Galactica from a simplistic story never read the damn thing in the first place. It started off with the death of billions! It was always painted as a run from impossible odds with the very remnants of the species! Jesus H man, listen, just put down the damn doritos and listen. < why doritos? my wife and I are plowing through them right now:) > Ron Moore didn't drastically change the story. He reimagined it, made it more accessible to us as a viewing audience. How did he do that? He got rid of the cheezy production values, and introduced anything he could think of that would make us feel at home in the universe he was reimagining. But it still started off with the death of billions and has continued with the run from impossible odds with the very remnants of the species! Jeez man. For the last time, please, please tell me how, a f-ing toy line cartoon about giant robots blowing each other up is accessible to us other than as GIANT ROBOTS BLOWING EACH OTHER UP?!?!?!?! Now listen real close, please. If Transformers is nothing more that a straight transfer of the cartoon, and ends up as nothing more than a summer popcorn blockbuster, then great I say. Does that make me an imbecile? Maybe to you, but to my little boy, it will be incredible, and he will finally understand why I love the cartoon so very much. It's about passing on my childhood. One other thing. I'm not ashamed that I am a successful adult, with a family, a loving son and wife, and I will be in the geek line on opening f-ing day. When I told my friends and family this, sure I got looks. You know, why would you go to a giant robot movie, etc... You know why it didn't bother me? Because they're the ones missing out on a visual feast of GIANT ROBOTS BLOWING STUFF UP. I don't need some deep story. I just need to see the cartoon I loved on the big screen. And it may not be good, I don't know. But you know what, when I was that little, I didn't watch cartoons looking for themes, I watched them because they rocked. Transformers and GI Joe were my favorites. One last thing, (I swear this is the last one) You may try to take me to task over saying I hate this cartoon in a previous post and that I love it in this post, well let me explain. I hate the EFFECT the cartoon has on people. Sorry. Thanks for reading.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Transformers fans will not be the core audience

    by Bronx Cheer

    <p>There are 300 million people in this country. To hear some of the people in this TB put it, darn near half of the country is a Transformer fan and they are angry as all get out that Michael Bay did this or that. No. No. No. Most people in this country don't give a damn about Transformers. Sorry to tell you this, but it just is not as big as, say, Dukes of Hazzard or Charlie's Angels. I don't recall a national day of mourning because "they" disrespected the source material.</p> <p>Yes, there are many people who loved the cartoon, and those toys are pretty cool, but remember that the toys were first and the show was nothing more than a 30 minute ad for those toys. It was insidious and exploitative behavior on the part of the Transformers people. Imagine all those kids, faces aglow for robots, not aware they were being manipulated into craving the latest and greatest this or that thing that changed into that or this. Just as bad as Joe Camel. "No, he's not meant to attract kids."</p> <p>When the dust settles, this film will succeed or fail based on how well the robot sequences mesh with the scenes with humans. Think Jurassic Park with robots. I liked the Sam Neil and Goldblum characters. And the dinos kicked ass. I'm sure Bay's robots will be a blast, but will we give a damn about the flesh-and-blood characters? If we don't, it'll just be one more headache-inducing explosion festival.</p> <p>The lack of fidelity to character design will not drive people away from the theaters, nor will Peter Cullen's voice work guarantee a $90 million opening weekend. Seriously, a little perspective people.</p> <p>Just keep in mind how many people actually liked the Prequels and prefer them over the OT, and we all know how big of a dump Lucas took on his own creation. What makes anyone think the majority of film-goers cares whether Optimus Prime is anything other than what they see on the screen?</p>

  • March 14, 2007, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Just to be clear, I love the fact that the fans are so

    by Bronx Cheer

    passionate, but we're talking about a feature film being released for distribution to the WORLD. It's a big massive product, with a huge potential windfall in merchandising tie-ins. Since we all know what kind of filmmaker Bay is, it's worth keeping in mind that he has one primary task: make a film that will open big, bring back repeat viewers, and live long as a DVD, and spawn an entire army of sequels and spin-offs. If this film is successful, it can set the producers up for the rest of their careers. If it sucks, which is likely since it's Bay, then it might earn someone a pink slip, but they'll keep giving Bay films to make. The one reason to expect good things from this film is that Spielberg is the honcho. I'm sure he has "offered" his opinion all along the way, just as he did when Tobe Hooper "directed" Poltergeist.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:45 p.m. CST

    shadowsdance....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    The cartoon was so much more than just GIANT ROBOTS BLOWING STUFF UP and it's sad you can't see that. Pure good vs pure evil, friendship, loyalty, leadership, honor, genocide, and lots of other high concepts that did impress upon my little mind. Optimus Prime was so much more than just another random cartoon character, and all by himself he means a whole helluva lot to a whole helluva lot of people. Now he's a bumbling clown that says "My bad."<p> The Transformers cartoon contains loads of serious, dramatic elements that could have been reimagined just as BSG has in order to create something infinitely superior to the original, and guess what, your kid would have loved it either way. My son loves Fantastic Four, but it too could have been oh so much more than what we got, and it's that Hollywood mediocrity that I, and others like me, wish could have been avoided with TF.<p> So at the end of the day, TF will make some money, will be profitable, and will fall into the ranks of utterly forgettable films that we all wish had never been made. Transformers = Batman & Robin, and someday maybe some genius like Chris Nolan will come along and realize there's more to this concept than just GIANT ROBOTS BLOWING STUFF UP.

  • March 14, 2007, 10:48 p.m. CST

    In the WHY did you put that image in my head? Depart.

    by Bronx Cheer

    I have to ask godoffireinhell to never again discuss the removal of hair from Mr. Knowles' pubic region. I have an image in my head of something that probably is more disgusting than anything I've ever seen in a film, and now, every time I see one of those cutesy cartoons of Harry up in the header, I'll be thinking of a nutsack buried deep under mounds of flesh and folds, folds that contain jelly beans and remnants of ham&cheese sandwiches, and that little smashed nutsack is hairless and sweaty, and it's hungry and looking for prey...maybe Bay can direct THAT as his next feature.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:19 p.m. CST

    whatever nutsack

    by shadowsdance

    any themes you found were just that, themes you found. I have always wanted to post at this site and held myself back, why? because of this. It seems like a large majority of you are like just like every other fan community on the internet. Nothing is ever positive, because that would be uncool. You're arguements come down to one thing and one thing only, you think it's uncool for Optimus to be "undignified." This is why this site has slowly lost relevancy these past few years. Very few of you have the ability to look at anything objectively. Fuck it, I'm out. Grow up.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Transformers has evolved into the very same thing.

    by superninja

    It has a mythology as complex as Star Wars. Give me a break.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Grow up?

    by Hairy Nutsack

    You're defending the childish nature of this movie and I'm pleading the case that it should have been made to be more mature. This means I need to grow up? You're the one that needs to grow up, try not taking a stupid conversation about the Transformers on the internet so seriously, it'll do wonders for your blood pressure.<p> And there's plenty I like and defend strongly, BSG, LOST, Stargate, Dark Tower, and the list goes on and on. Yes there are wholesale haters on this website, but I sure as fuck ain't one of them. I hate THIS movie and have been railing on it and it alone, and you sir are talking out of your ass.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:34 p.m. CST

    Nearly everyone knows who the Transformers are.

    by superninja

    It's popular again with kids. It's huge in Japan - in fact it's huge worldwide. It's like making a Superman movie and making Superman not have the boyscout personality and to have the main character be Jimmy Olsen. Just admit you don't care about the property and be done with it. Your poor reasoning and lame excuses suck. You obviously have no read the script.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Hahah, I don't think LOTR is a good example.

    by superninja

    I'm sorry but it's literature. Batman or Superman, however, is a good example. A good story is a good story. Good characters are good characters. TF has lasted this long for a reason despite all the naysaying. It's mythology, and Bay & Co. made a choice to make NOT mythology. That is not TF.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:43 p.m. CST

    Star Wars mythology isn't very complex.

    by Bronx Cheer

    It has a lot of appeal, though, and many of the characters are very engaging, which apparently is also the case with Transformers. And the Transformers are very well-known, but that's because of advertising and omnipresent TV. A lot of people know who the Geico cavemen are, but that doesn't mean they should star in their own...

  • March 14, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Stop playing around. You know it has enough

    by superninja

    mythology to tell a great story. TF is no different at this point.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:47 p.m. CST

    PharteGoddPrime

    by tile_mcgillus

    Thanks for From Hell, LXG and Double Dragon. Your geek cup is overflowing with successes. I know all you care about is money but that doesn't make a good film. I guess producers forget that shit so easily nowadays. Must be hard being such a sad, little, mickey moused voiced, JTT wanna be that can't even remember why he got into movies in the first place. Don Murphy is the producer equilvalent of Uwe Boll. I truly look forward to your beautiful rendition of Mars. Should be glorious.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:50 p.m. CST

    nonsensical, you are right they should just

    by superninja

    adapt the existing mythology. It would be comparable to Star Wars. Story and character has obviously become less important in cinema as special effects have progressed.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:53 p.m. CST

    Not knocking the universe. It's incredible. And mythic.

    by Bronx Cheer

    Only quibble was with "complex." The beauty of Star Wars is that it is open-ended. Because the universe is so vast, there is literally an infinite number of stories that can be mined, but that's because of the brilliance of setting a story in a long ago past and giving the characters the free run of their galaxy. As a storyteller, you can keep adding characters and stories, because you are allowed to weave them all together into one massive tapestry. Perhaps I'm getting hung up on semantics. I don't disagree at all with that. Not looking to nitpick, even though it's obviously coming off that way. I'm not knocking Transformers. Most of my points are related to the business of all this. Just as the suits don't really give a rat's as what Harry thinks, they know many many people visit this site, and they are not only peeking in once in a while to get the geek pulse, but they are also trying to steer the conversation and our attention to their products. That's their job. Butts in seats and selling stuff.

  • March 14, 2007, 11:56 p.m. CST

    I'm sure they are looking ahead to Beast Wars, also.

    by Bronx Cheer

    They see a goldmine in this, and they are right. They just put the wrong guy at the helm of their first offering. Maybe they'll get someone like George Miller to do one of them, now that he's tried his hand at animation.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:04 a.m. CST

    Star Wars had enough mythology to make

    by superninja

    three good films. One was actually excellent. Transformers has enough mythology to make 3 good films. The TF universe has expanded far beyond the scope of the cartoon, as I'm sure you know, throughout the universe. I really don't care about that, I care about the core G1 mythology that established TF to begin with.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:08 a.m. CST

    TBers SET THEMSELVES UP FOR A SHITTY EXPERIENCE...

    by moto

    You do. Blame it on sites like AICN and blame it on the internet. The magic is fucking dead for you guys. You put so much energy into hating a movie based on nothing more than herese, dated scripts, leaked set pics and concept designs, etc. You honestly hate a flick if it isn't made exactly how you'd like it to be. Fact is, no movie is 100% ladies and gentlemen. No movie delivers 100%. The Last Starfighter... terrible acting, cheesy script, but for many fans it still fucking rocks. Same with Tron. Same with Back to the Future. Same with Star Wars. No movie delivers 100%. Impossible. So stop fucking thinking in BLACK or WHITE all of the time! God, if a movie didn't tackle something you were hoping for, in your mind it is a total flop and whoever wrote and directed it should never work in the industry again. Give me a break. Get off your damn pedestal, your soapbox, your Monday morning quarterback recliner, your computer chair, and remember what it was like to go into a movie not knowing what to expect. That's why movies like Star Wars and Back to the Future, etc. have survived the test of time. Because we were innocent and wide-eyed and not bombarded by negativity from the get go. You guys choose to read all of this shit on AICN and put so much faith into it, be it good or bad. You guys choose to learn every single possible detail so you can step up on your soapbox, hiding behind your computer, and pass your "ultimate" judgement WITHOUT SEEING THE FUCKING MOVIE. I don't care what you say about "Oh, but they change the source material" and "Oh, Michael Bay's movies suck" yada yada yada. Perspective here: Generally your favorite SW movie is Empire, right? Directed by Irvin Kershner who before that movie, had made nothing but unsuccessful movies. So, if we're thinking in your terms today, he was the WRONG choice to direct that movie??? Um, nope. See how ridiculous that is? If Empire came out today, and you heard some unknown director who made a couple of mid-level movies/flops was going to direct the sequel to your beloved movie, you'd be screaming havoc! It's just pure ridiculous. Fact is, Transformers probably won't, and never could be 100% the movie you guys wanted to see. Is that so wrong? You're still seeing a live action Transformers movie! What did you like about the original cartoons as a kid? Don't give me this bullshit about "the stories" and the "character interactions". I'm THE biggest fucking Transformers fan and the truth is, that show did NOT have that. Go back and watch the episodes on DVD. Some interesting stories yes, but not the perfect and depth-filled source material you guys swear by. We loved that show because it was about robots that fucking transformed into vehicles! If we get that, and if we get some kickass action packed moments... I'm in. I've been waiting for this since I was a kid. And I'll take what I like and leave it at that. Fucking enjoy yourselves for once. Think about a movie like ID4. When that came out, and when most of us saw it in the theater, it was a frickin' sweet movie experience. Fun. Pure fun. In retrospect, the movie isn't that great. We hardly knew anything about it beforehand... couple of trailers. And it was a fun movie theater experience. Lighten up TBers. Hollywood isn't curing cancer or anything. They're entertaining. Fact is, this movie will ENTERTAIN millions of people. What's wrong with that? We all have different likes and dislikes. Stop thinking that because you hated it, everyone else that liked it is an idiot. That IS what you do, make no mistake. It's ignorant, arrogant, and a bit sad.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:09 a.m. CST

    Bronx, for some reason the industry does pay

    by superninja

    attention to this website. Frightening, I know. Look at how Murphy & Co. reacted over the fan uproar at the trailer. How they got Cullen for Prime. People for the most part were willing to give this a chance until the designs and the script leaked. Both of which look nothing like the source material they are claiming to be making a movie based on. That's called lying.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:12 a.m. CST

    Develop what story?

    by superninja

    The story of Shia and his hot girlfriend? What is part 2 going to be about Shia goes to college with his giant robot friends in tow? Like I said, Gremlins with giant robots. Remember how GREAT Gremlins 2 was? Yeah, didn't think so.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:14 a.m. CST

    moto, people know what goes into making

    by superninja

    a movie and how films are put together and marketed. Get off the soapbox, junior.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:16 a.m. CST

    Maybe the fembots can show up and go shopping

    by superninja

    for bikinis at the mall with Megan Fox in the sequel?

  • March 15, 2007, 12:19 a.m. CST

    This site is really negative.

    by superninja

    But then so is Hollywood and most of the entertainment is negative and poorly made and empty. I'm not sure what you are expecting, blah, blah, blah...See how that sounds?

  • March 15, 2007, 12:22 a.m. CST

    The "lie" is almost like currency in the entertainment

    by Bronx Cheer

    <p>industry. Just the name itself--film "industry" is BS. Where are the factories, where are the machines? "Dream factories" is what they'll say. They lie about an actor's sexual orientation until he's dead to keep fans coming back, they'll lie about how much money a film made so they don't have to share profits, they'll lie they love you when they talk shit behind your back, etc. The film biz is nothing but one big pile of BS.</p> <p>The potential to harness the internet as a marketing tool is HUGE and they've barely scratched the surface. So hell yes they're keeping tabs on this site, and CHUD and all the others, and they have people on the payroll to come in these rooms and do what amounts to as basically marketing research. They tabulate positive and negative responses, they'll keep tabs on which subjects pull in the most comments, and they'll keep an eye out for the next property they should think of exploiting.</p> <p>I tell you, if we started a guerrilla campaign to start pushing the idea of how cool a CGI Care Bears of My Little Pony movie would be, at some point, there would be a press release to the effect that "Paramount has inked Joe Blow to write a script for a new state-of-the-art Care Bears project. Joel Schumaker has expressed an interest to helm, but rumors are Brett Ratner has the inside track." And then they'll sit back and see if it generates any heat when there's a story on this site and at the end of it, we're asked by the writer, "What do you think?" And then they're off!

  • March 15, 2007, 12:24 a.m. CST

    Care Bears are AWESOME! Please make me a movie!

    by Bronx Cheer

    I'll go to bed now. Goodnight, superninja, wherever you are. Goodnight TBers, and Harry, please, don't shave your balls. Red pubes are like diamonds.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Fembots shopping? Damn, that could be a TV show.

    by Bronx Cheer

    Seriously, wait till you see the crap that' they're shooting pilots for. I'm working on some of them and there are five different versions of Sex and the City. Please come up with ONE NEW IDEA.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Ick. Well, sleep well, Bronx Cheer.

    by superninja

    Minus all that nether regions stuff.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:31 a.m. CST

    One last thought: are you afraid the TF film

    by Bronx Cheer

    will be like "Batteries Included" with explosions?

  • March 15, 2007, 12:37 a.m. CST

    Not really, Bronx. Batteries Not Included

    by superninja

    didn't have the all important "getting laid" factor present in every Bay extravaganza.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:39 a.m. CST

    Superninja...

    by moto

    No revelance to what I said. Because people know how movies are made and marketed means they can't enjoy them?? You obviously missed my point. Point was, judge the movie. Don't put so much faith into this shit you read at AICN or wherever. Go in with an open mind. If it doesn't deliver for YOU, fine. Doesn't mean it won't for others. <p> Love the "junior" touch. Very TBish.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:43 a.m. CST

    LOTR STARRED ELIJAH WOOD AND SEAN ASTIN

    by moto

    Two former child actors...

  • March 15, 2007, 12:43 a.m. CST

    Yeah, they also said Superman Returns was

    by superninja

    great, too. POTC3 isn't really getting a lot of hate. Interesting, that.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:45 a.m. CST

    moto - I read the script. I form my own opinions

    by superninja

    I do not include AICN in forming my opinions on anything, trust me. I come here to talk about movies with other geeks, that's it.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Yeah, I was being a real smartass with the

    by superninja

    "junior" comment, but your rant was really over the top.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Yeah, I find the POTC series to be pretty

    by superninja

    darn fulfilling. Nothing to complain about and I can't wait to see how it all turns out. The director knows how to use it and when. He can have a superhero film any day of the week as far as I'm concerned.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:51 a.m. CST

    Shia would've been Frodo and would've

    by superninja

    been all about how the One Ring gets you chicks and telling Sam what a POS he is, but you know, FUNNY. A coming of age story, much like TF.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:51 a.m. CST

    Superninja... I read the script

    by moto

    Good for you. But, your opinions are based on things the internet has released (script, images, etc.), let's be honest. That's the problem. Opinion is fine. Nothing wrong with that. But judging a movie without seeing it is... no, bitching and complaining about a movie without seeing it (not saying YOU did this, talking about negative TBers in general)is, well, lame. And I read the script. Everyone's read the script. It's dated. Scripts go through changes over and over and over. Sure, big action/effects scenes will stay in there, but none of us have SEEN THE MOVIE.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:53 a.m. CST

    Look...

    by moto

    I respect your opinion. I do. I'm just trying to clarify mine. Nothing personal.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:54 a.m. CST

    Look this isn't hard. I read the script, the images

    by superninja

    and film they have released along with interviews confirms that they shot THAT SCRIPT. I'm not sure what else I need to do now, but I won't be seeing the film. I'll wait for you to see it and hopefully you will be honest enough to tell what you think of it.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:57 a.m. CST

    Moto, fair enough. I would reserve judgment

    by superninja

    if I had not read the script, or if it appeared that they really did heavy rewrites. But it does not appear that way at all. That would not change the fact that the human characters are all Bay stereotypes, there are too many of them for the film to have the Transformers be the main characters, and that the Transformers don't appear anything like actual Transformers. That would not change.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Really didn't know anything about Verbinksi

    by superninja

    prior to POTC. But he does seem to be a pretty good director.

  • March 15, 2007, 1 a.m. CST

    Fair enough...

    by moto

    I'm sure I'll have things I frickin' love and things I didn't like as much. No different than any other movie. <P> You really won't see it? Why? <P> Script-wise, rewrites for big pics like this are simple. They keep the big action sequences they want to do (i.e. the stuff, images, etc. we've seen thus far) because pre-production already started their work, and they change the things they can/want/need to change.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:03 a.m. CST

    Since they are not changing the plot/storyline

    by superninja

    what is there to change? To make Optimus "cooler" (My Bad.)? Unless they are majorly altering the plot, there is no characterization in this film. That is what I have been trying to explain - there are no big character moments, there is hardly any for even the human characters it is a chase movie short in the dialogue department.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:05 a.m. CST

    Oh, I saw that. I hate horror movies, but I

    by superninja

    agree it was well made. It looked nice and had tension.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:06 a.m. CST

    Love Pirates, Really don't like Spider-Man

    by moto

    Pirates is an awesome ride, movie-wise. Best effects I've seen in quite awhile, as far as photorealistic. Great stunts. Spider-Man to me is a bit blah. I liked the first 40 minutes of 1. Great set up. But the villians are one note, the effects are just too CG. Maguire delivers his lines terribly in my opinion. Hoping Gyllenhaal takes the job for 4.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:12 a.m. CST

    Yeah but...

    by moto

    Here's where I think people don't get it. The reason there are human characters is to draw in a mass audience. A whole movie with robots vs. robots would sell, but not to the mass audience.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Moto, I feel you on Spider-Man. I think it

    by superninja

    could use a major fun injection - the character is much more spirited even though always down on his luck. BSB, I doubt that, but maybe I think The Island didn't do so hot.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:16 a.m. CST

    Would have loved to see Cameron's Spider-Man

    by moto

    Anyway.. I'm out...

  • March 15, 2007, 1:19 a.m. CST

    I doubt anyone would have made hay of

    by superninja

    having the Spike character as that's true to the source material. But the human cast is larger than the Transformers and they're not incredibly unique or interesting characters.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:37 a.m. CST

    For a guy called "nonsensical" he sure makes sense

    by finky089

    Moto, anyone disenchanted with this film isn't going to have their opinion changed by anything at this point other than the film itself. I read the script (2x) and have seen just about all the leaked pics annd stuff and none of it has been impressive. That is to say, not in the direction I hoped to see the production go in. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, though. I'd love to eat my own words on July 5th and find out this movie is actually pretty great, but at this point, I hav't seen the evidence to convince me, or even leave me more than mildly dubious. The script was full of bad dialogue, it focuses on the humans instead of the titular robots, there almost no development of the robot characters, do I have to go on? That last one really gets me. Here's a test, cover up the names of the robots when they speak in the script and tell me if you can tell who speaks the line. If they all sound the same then the writer has not done a good job defining the voice of the characters. Something that is rampant throughout this script. If this movie wasn't CALLED Transformers, maybe I wouldn't be so bothered by the fact that the story uses them minimally. And where they are most used is as a threatening force to humans. The Autobots get very little development. Anyway, nobody on AICN will ever agree on this or anything else. I won't even get into the "Bay factor" b/c it's far more subjective to individual perspectives. But the structure and hallmarks of good writing are objective weights that can be qualified and for this movoe, they are weighing in too well right now.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Correction: AREN'T weighing in too well

    by finky089

    TB's just aren't meant to be written on a blackberry.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:53 a.m. CST

    Scripts....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Think about this for a moment fellas, originally Aliens vs Predator had a fantastic script that Fox rejected, it became the Dark Horse comic, remember how fucking great that was? That comic read like a movie, a GREAT movie. Now consider the AvP movie we ended up getting and this new Kansas based one for a sequel.<p> Everyone defending TF deserves more of these shitty Aliens vs. Predator movies, keep eating that shit candy these hacks feed you, and keep telling yourself that the shit candy tastes good.<p> Me? I'm going to do my best to call something shitty when it clearly is and avoid seeing it at all costs. Didn't pay to see AvP and I won't be paying to see this thing, Joel Schumacher unintentionally taught me a valuable lesson.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:13 a.m. CST

    Messi you ask how old I am??

    by IndustryKiller!

    And then use the term "gaytarded"? And my God Messi are you still pissed about that Batman or Prestige (I can't remember which) talkback? That was like two weeks ago. We don't see eye to eye on Batman, big deal. We had it out on a talkback and now its over until some Dark Knight rumor comes along that we don't agree on and it all starts anew. But for now, chill. Bigger fish to fry, real hacks to critisize. I'm glad we seem to be together on the Transformers front though, Im not sure what lunatic thinks THAT looks good.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:15 a.m. CST

    Ganymede

    by IndustryKiller!

    What exactly did you like about that script? No seriously give me reference points, scenes, page numbers, whatever. Cause this I gotta hear.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:04 a.m. CST

    you know how i know you are gay?

    by TouchMyMonkey

    ...you slap fight on movie talkbacks

  • March 15, 2007, 5:15 a.m. CST

    ROBOTECH > TRANSFORMERS

    by Mogwai Democracy

    Absolutely no competition. If you're going to make a "giant robot movie", go with Macross. ...and keep Michael Bay away from it.

  • March 15, 2007, 6:09 a.m. CST

    People Like Sir Alan Parker and Sir Ridley Scott

    by emeraldboy

    started off making Promos for advertisement companies. Indeed, Ridley and his brother Tony have thier own Ad company called Ridley Scot and Associates. Some of todays top filmmakers started off on making Music promos in the eighties, two that come to mind are Jonas Ackerlund and Russell Mulcahy and there more that I cant think of. This is where Micheal Bay began and yet somehow. some have a huge problem with that. If you are going to say you dislike someone at least say why. I have enjoyed his work in the past but still dont get the bay hate.

  • March 15, 2007, 6:25 a.m. CST

    nothing wrong with starting out in ad's or music

    by Lost Prophet

    Fincher was a music director, to name one. However, there is something wrong with consistently turning out crap and still getting employment. Bay's continued career is frankly inexplicable. <p> Furthermore, isn't he behind the production company that keeps remaking iconic horror films and turning them into utter shite- The Fog, TCM remake, The Omen, The Hitcher etc? I'm not sure on this.

  • March 15, 2007, 6:29 a.m. CST

    I am just finishing my breakfast and have to tell you

    by Bronx Cheer

    <p>guys and gals, especially the ones going at it in the wee wee hours, I love you guys (and gals), even the knucklehead who calls someone out for immaturity and then slings the slur "gaytarded."</p> <p>A couple of things about reading scripts: the movie is made in the editing room. The greatest editors never even look at the script. They grab the film and see what story is in the footage. A great director only shoots what is needed to tell the story, so that usually limits the options of the editor to veer too far from the actually story, but when you look at a classic film like Jaws or Apocalypse, you can see the fat that was chopped out during editing. And while I know the director is usually present or available, the best directors hire editors that don't need babysitting.</p> <p>Of course, that may not save TF, because a film of this nature is very heavily planned, so there can't be too much creative freedom for an editor. But since we can expect Bay and the studio are holding back the really mind-blowing robot stuff, it's possible that all this business with the humans may just be dressing or seasoning, whereas the actual substance of the film are kept tightly under wraps.</p> <p>I suppose what I am saying is, Wait until the actual film is released to criticize it. If you've read the script, then critique away, but remember that this is not the final shooting script. Just try to relax, have fun watching the movies you love and that are coming out now, and try to meet the film on its own terms, but at least let the darned thing spool out.</p> <p>I doubt highly that the complaints on websites like this ever get heard or acted on because the egos of filmmakers and studio people tend to be pretty sizable, and why should they listen to us?(Rhetorical question)</p> <p>I dig that people are upset that it looks like a beloved story is about to be barfed on, but you'll always have the source material. I know that does not make up for the missed opportunity a big movie represents, but them's the breaks.</p>

  • March 15, 2007, 6:38 a.m. CST

    Big-time directors are shooting spots all the time

    by Bronx Cheer

    It's a good way to stay in touch with newer technologies and equipment, to experiment with looks etc, and to bank a nice paycheck for a few days work. It can help give a director or a DP a reboot before starting another project.

  • March 15, 2007, 6:48 a.m. CST

    I understand about editing

    by Lost Prophet

    but to use a horrible cliched analogy- This is like building a house. The script is the foundation and anything that comes after is built on that foundation. In this case, the foundation is, well, manure so anything built on it will collapse under its own weight. <p>The editing could well be brilliant in its own right, but if the foundations are crap it cannot save the project. It will merely be an exercise in turd polishing

  • March 15, 2007, 7 a.m. CST

    I didn't know you could

    by Lost Prophet

    get fucked up on NyQuil. How much do you have to drink to hallucinate?<p>or is it like Phartegod's baby powder habit?

  • March 15, 2007, 7:05 a.m. CST

    Kershner

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Kershner's movies before Empire were unsuccessful financially but successful creatively and artistically. Look, lets face it the summer movies suck nowadays. There is no edge to them, they are corporate nose candy. No thought is given to memorable characters or dialogue. The Spider Man movies are so bland they hurt. Where is today's Indiana Jones? Where is today's John McClane? Characters to root for, who are super-cool and say memorable lines. Non existant. The summer movie is dead and buried. The only one i'm looking forward to this year is Bourne Ultimatum because I know it will be well made and well acted. Spiderman 3, Shrek 3, Ocean's 13, Live Free or Die Hard, Transformers...we all know these movies will be crap.

  • March 15, 2007, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Kwisatz

    by Lost Prophet

    you are the most depressed TB'er ever. We all know that the majority of summer movies will be crap- I just hold out hope against experience that this year and the years following will be better than the utter shit-fest that was summer 2006. <p> Someone told me that Fierce People is finally getting a UK release this spring/summer> I am so fucking exited about this- I love the book and I hope it has been treated with the respect that superninja, nutsack, finky and co wanted bay to treat Transformers with. <p>NyQuil takes 1 week? Over the counter drugs are truly useless. That's why I live on nothing but a diet of tequila worms and guiness. Sure- my body is shot and I have the liver of a 90 year old but I did have a nice conversation with a MAN CAT on the tube. Or at least I think I did.

  • March 15, 2007, 8:15 a.m. CST

    kwisatzhaderach

    by HeWhoCannotBeNamed

    Best. TB Name. Ever. <P>Better than QuinnTheEskimo. Love me some Herbert. Ever read any of his stuff outside of the Dune Saga?<P>I agree with you on Bourne. Cannot fucking wait. I thought the first two rocked. Hate the Damon haters. I think he's great and the Bourne movies entertain me.

  • March 15, 2007, 8:18 a.m. CST

    ILM is Underappreciated

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I know that it may sound silly saying that. However, WETA and others cannot approach the general quality of what ILM does. Say what you will about the Prequels, ILM deserved a bloody Oscar for their work. In fact , movies such as the HULK and SW still hold up well today.

  • March 15, 2007, 8:20 a.m. CST

    PLEASE GOD REMOVE THE LIPS!!

    by BRUTICUS

    Bay, please, just redo that animation with no fucking lips... COME ON

  • March 15, 2007, 8:23 a.m. CST

    who hates Damon?

    by just pillow talk

    He is great as Jason Bourne. The third movie will kick ass, no doubt about it. Just some freak'n solid action movies. Cox was great in the first two, but I miss me my Cooper.

  • March 15, 2007, 8:35 a.m. CST

    LostProphet, unfortunately he keeps making money.

    by JackPumpkinhead

    That's the only reason why he keeps getting employment. Uwe Boll on the other hand... that's a mystery. That guy probably has ol' nazi secrets that he's using to blackmail his German investors.

  • March 15, 2007, 8:36 a.m. CST

    I never said there was anyhing wrong

    by emeraldboy

    Its just that Name bay seems to bring Fanboys and fangirls out in a rash in a way the others dont. I too am looking forward the bourne Ultimatum. My enjoyment of the 2nd film was ruined by Shakey cam. But I loved the film and the knife fight scene is amongst the best things i have seen at the movies in a very long time. It was so intense and the quickie bomb blew that followed my head right off.

  • March 15, 2007, 8:40 a.m. CST

    Look I accept Bay cant dialog write for

    by emeraldboy

    toffee. he is a big bang filmmaker with a flair for visuals. Eli Roth Keeps working. that is not fair.

  • March 15, 2007, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Easy on the 'Quil, Yack...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I've got a very scary story about NyQuil hallucinations (almost made me light my cat on fire once). You have to be careful with that stuff.<p>And now that I have a tent, as the official Cautiously Optimistic Ambassador to Camp Hater, I'd like to clarify something: It seems like superninja and a few other folks are going back to the earliest complaint we heard...that these characters are not the G1 characters a lot fo folks know and love...and are using that as some sort of evidence that the movie isn't being faithful to the source material. I still can't get behind this argument. The source material (all of transformerdom) reaches much further and wider than the 80s cartoon and comic books. Optimus Prime has had a multitude of incarnations and the one he has in this movie really doesn't seem all that far removed from any of the others (except the ape, which wasn't technically Optimus).<p>My complaint about Bay's mishandling of the concept is that he seems to have taken the core idea of "robots in disguise" and changed it to "roboits in amusingly awkward situations where a disguise would actually be quite handy but decidedly less funny." That's a very different complaint, though. I simply don't think cries of "That's not the Ironhide/Ratchet/Jazz/Bumblebee I remember from the cartoon!" are valid gripes. No one ever said they would be exactly those characters as depicted in that medium.<p>And, while we're on that subject, comparisons of TF to TLOR aren't valid at all. That was a direct adaptation of a literary work. There weren't multiple takes on that universe or that story that were officially licensed or sanctioned by Tolkien's estate, so Jackson didn't have quite as much source material to draw from or room for divergence in his adaptation as Bay. However, Bay does appear to have -- for the sake of convenience and cutesy comedy -- thrown the fundamental unifying concept for all transformers incarnations out the window of a giant truck with flames on its nipples.<p>That's his bad.

  • March 15, 2007, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Easy now chaps

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    No need to get personal....

  • March 15, 2007, 10:08 a.m. CST

    I'd be much more forgiving of the Bumblebee radio...

    by Childe Roland

    ...device if the fucking robot had the sense to remain in car mode on a covert mission into the suburbs.<p>Seriously, I just can't let the idiocy of that plot point go.<p>And Gany, you need to relax. Whether someone agrees with you or not has no bearing on the whoorishness of his or her mother. And your sudden schizophrenic foray into Personal Insult Land doesn't do a thing for your overall credibility.

  • March 15, 2007, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Wow...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    So, you kids are still going at it, huh?

  • March 15, 2007, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Not too bad, Yackbacker.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Actually, I just got over some sort of 48 hour bug myself. I took a couple of DayQuil tabs but not enough to see God. Other than that, I'm trying to get my mind ready for this weekend. I haven't had a drink since New Year's Eve and St. Pat's will mark my return to "Pro-Drink Status".

  • March 15, 2007, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Moto's right

    by ProfGriffin

    Sadly, I wish I could say he's not...but it's true. Robots vs. Robots...not appealing to a mass Summer Blockbuster audience. We can cry and scream and point out details regarding the characters and great heroics of the SUNBOW cartoons. We can insist that our memories are real and valid and boast of magnificent impressions of the 80's that left us weeping at the death of Prime and more! (Who didn't cringe at the the whole COBRA-LA nonsense and Globulus?) BUT in THIS business...successful movies are what works and what people want to see. Right now, I want to see Pirates (LOVE THEM) Spidey, and another Potter. I also want to see Megatron and Prime battling on the top of a damaged dam, but unfortunately, that's a small sqeak. Moto...you nailed it man. End.

  • March 15, 2007, 11:33 a.m. CST

    Gany, that's not one word - it's several words

    by Doctor_Sin

    If the public would just not rush out on opening weekend to see anything, maybe Hollywood would quit relying on that big first weekend.<p>Please, folks - we, the audience, have the power.

  • March 15, 2007, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Not only was it sefveral words...

    by Childe Roland

    ...you said it THREE TIMES! Look, Gany, I want to like this movie. Ask anyone. I'm giving it the benefit of much more than a reasonable doubt, but you're just coming off like a zealot here.<p>It's perfectly okay for folks to stick around the talkback if they don't share your pre-formed opinions (doesn't make theirs, yours or mine any more on target or valid...just different).<p>The point is to discuss this stuff, to speculate and to try to make heads or tails of it.<p>Or I suppose we could just flame each other all day, but I don't see that working out so well for you. So how 'bout a little chill time and some rational discourse to follow?

  • March 15, 2007, 12:07 p.m. CST

    I agree with wonka

    by wanna_bannana

    and having been here long enough to have known what he is about, in short he is saying you guys are tools....and jelous ones at that.<p>Are you alittle sad that harry has more money then you? or maybe even that he gets to go and see these things and talk to directors and get special screenings? <p>Fuck off....<p>i do not agree with half the shit harry reviews,or the rest of the admin on this site.<p>But it does not mean i come on teeth gnashing because they get to go to private screenings and i dont...what are you 9? half of the people in here that moan are 20-something *or older* and you act like a bunch of kidlets. People can love movies while still acting their ages....*maybe not for you two* but it is possible.<p>As for the comment about "keeping it real.....yo" had a good laugh over that one....you really do not have a clue do you? Makiko

  • March 15, 2007, 12:11 p.m. CST

    "the positive reviews are like buckets of water"

    by Doctor_Sin

    More like buckets of pig urine.<p>"Gone With the Wind" is always lauded and praised, but I hate and loathe it for its depiction of slavery and its (in my mind) lack of sympathy I have for any of the characters as I find Scarlett as well as Rhett to be utterly despicable.<p>A positive review doesn't mean shit. Especially when one cites applauding and cheering theater owners.<p>For every "bang" or "boom," they hear cash registers ringing.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:19 p.m. CST

    pee+lips+slang+slapstick+human interest =

    by Doctor_Sin

    Spell it with me: C.R.A.P.<p>And I'm not even in the camp of those who are big TF fans and have problems with the translation to the big screen of this. I'm not even considering the flames and the models of vehicles.<p>And it still comes up suckage.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Gany, you're why Hollywood keeps making crap

    by Doctor_Sin

    Because you demand nothing more. You would rather eat the feces they feed you than starve.<p>Quality control, people. That's all I ask for. I don't want all films to be deep, brooding, emotional pieces of importance. I love fun, popcorn movies. But, I am sickened that Hollywood defines "fun action movie" as "dumbed down eye-candy with juvenile humor and plasticine pre-pubescent romance." And I am also sickened that audiences accept that and say, "I just want to be entertained, I shouldn't accept quality."<p>The cycle continues.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Gany, about AOTC....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Are you trying to win the argument for us or what?<p> You're right, those AOTC storyboards were fucking awesome, and you know what, that scene was/is in fact awesome. You are also right that the movie fails, but not because of the visuals or action, it's because of the fucktarded romance and Anakin's moody 90210ness.<p> So now people have seen two action scenes of the TFs and they are saying how awesome it looks, just like AOTC. However, the third scene in the backyard is easily on par with all the shit in AOTC that ruined that movie.<p> It seems they wisely removed the part where Ironhide wants to kill Sam's parents and instead turned his wrath onto a chihuahua, but the whole scene plays out as the Autobots being lovable clowns instead of the battle hardened warriors they should be. Remember the Colonial Marines in Aliens? There was plenty of humor without those characters being turned into clowns. I could live with one character being clownish in the same way that Hudson was in Aliens, maybe Bumblebee, but Optimus FUCKING Prime?!?!?

  • March 15, 2007, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Childe Rowland, Childe Rowland

    by superninja

    The characters are the characters. The backstory is the backstory. Otherwise you are changing the core myth. If you adapt Spider-Man do you start with the Clone Saga? Uh, no. No, you don't. It's the same principle here. Beast Wars and other iterations of TF are not superior to the original G1 characters. They are derivative of them.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:54 p.m. CST

    AOTC storyboards are awesome because

    by superninja

    that is good art. Storyboards are usually awesome.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Great Sci-Fi:

    by just pillow talk

    Terminator, Terminator II, Matrix, Blade Runner,Empire, New Hope, Wrath of Khan, Alien, Aliens...those are the ones that pop into my head. Can't say any of the recent stuff really jumps out as being great. Minority Report, War of the Worlds, Revenge of the Sith, etc all have problems with them that just don't work.

  • March 15, 2007, 12:59 p.m. CST

    No, you really don't have to see the movie

    by superninja

    To prejudge it. You can view the director's prior work, look at the designs, view released material and read the script. This is just simply not some great metaphysical challenge like you make it out to be. Could they edit it into a fantastic movie and rewrite the whole thing and redesign the characters? I guess that is possible, but how possible are we talking? Enough that I should believe the film will be GOOD? You have a lot of faith, my friend.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:02 p.m. CST

    domesticated house broken americanized pets?

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Who wanted that, who? I certainly didn't, I wanted Prime to be the larger than life John Wayne-esque brilliant and honorable military leader like he is in the show.<p> Seeing as how you have read the script, how can you say the Autobots have no first hand knowledge of Earth's cultural norms or customs? The first thing they do when they flop out of space is D/L the entire internet, I'm pretty sure there's more than a few websites about chihuahua's and pets, but yeah it makes total sense that Ironhide doesn't know what a dog is, why it's there, or how it should be treated. No, they dump the fact that they SHOULD know what a dog is and instead go for a cheap laugh. That's some tight writing right there.<p> I still find myself wondering what the Autobots thought when they got to goatse.cx on the internet.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:05 p.m. CST

    No - I'm not getting into some "grocery list"

    by Doctor_Sin

    I'm just amazed that some people will look at a film and choose to ignore its worst elements just because of a handful of good elements. Yeah, I like big, explosive movies. But, until we as a culture tell Hollywood that we demand something better than what they give us (and what they convince us that we can't live without), we are doomed.<p>Hollywood and everyone in the major industry has become lazy and jaded towards their own audience base that they are just convinced we're all dumb cattle. And, I think they're right.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:13 p.m. CST

    The one thing that really caught my eye in this review

    by rbatty024

    is Jeffrey Combs. What is that guy up to, and damn if he isn't an incredibly underrated actor. Get that guy into a feature length film or at least give him a recurring role in some TV show.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:14 p.m. CST

    To hell w/ Terminator's "scientific scrutiny"

    by Doctor_Sin

    It's a great, scary, suspenseful movie. The acting is not the greatest in the world, but the writing never sinks to the point where what is being said is pure filler for cheap laughs or anything. A la Star Wars: A New Hope.<p>Gany, I notice you do not attack Blade Runner, the most literate "sci-fi" film ever. Every line is a piece of poetry and carries plot information. Not even a gratuitous camera shot is gratuitous. Nothing is wasted.<p>I prefer Terminator to T2, because T2 tried to be more than it is - like the Matrix sequels. They shot for godhead, when they should have been happy being demi-gods.<p>Matrix is an amazing pastiche of everything Hollywood has ignored in bringing sci-fi, comics, or martial arts to the screen. It's the sci-fi equivalent of Kill Bill. Matrix steals, but in good and inventive ways. Everything since has co-opted the Matrix approach. THAT is what I hate.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Agreed Doctor Sin.

    by superninja

    You are not depriving yourself by choosing not to see poorly made films. This is of course subjective, but we all know that most movies these days are not very good. So what if everyone else is doing it? It's like everything else in life, if you set the bar lower, most things will settle at that standard.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Blader Runner is one of the finest films

    by superninja

    ever made. Man, I love that film. It seems like a real place to me.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:21 p.m. CST

    say what you will about the Terminator with your

    by just pillow talk

    "hater's" cap on, but at least a dog doesn't pee on Arnold's leg. That's something I would think would appear in a movie like Beerfest.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:21 p.m. CST

    TOO SOON!!

    by Pageiv

    How can they give Prime lips? Retarded, though I'm still pumped after reading the script.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:42 p.m. CST

    If it is Jake, then it's obvious they are going

    by superninja

    the route of making Shazaam the semi-retarded adult persona of Billy. Kind of like I Am Sam, but with tights.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:48 p.m. CST

    That's all fine and good for you, superninja...

    by Childe Roland

    ...and for a handful of other die-hard "no transformers but my 80s transformers" fans, but it's not a very valid criticism of this film or the bits and pieces we've seen of it.<p>Your assertion that the story is the story and the characters are the characters is just plain wrong. Whilel the cartoon was airing one story eaturing the G1 characters, the comic book was running another, almost completely unconnected story set in a clearly different reality. To you, the cartoon is more legitimate, but as many fans of G1 transformers consider the comics true canon. Then there are the MANY other iterations of Transformers that have come and gone since. None of those are in any way less legitimate and the only thing they are derivative of is the very core concept of robots that turn into something else for the purpose of disguising themselves (which, you'll note, is my one gripe so far about what I've seen and heard of this film -- they seem to overlook that when it'sconvenient.<p>But, even if there were just one story and one set of characterizations for Transformers (again, there isn't -- and that's just an indisputable fact, regardless of what you choose to ignore or accept as canon), you cite Spider Man as an example of how to adapt a story and characters correctly, yet there were a number of changes to the characters (his first girlfriend wasn't Mary Jane, for example, Peter was a scientist who engineered a revolutionary adhesive rather than spinning webs biologically and Spidey enjoyed cracking wise while in costume) and the story (Mary Jane should've died on that bridge, as the loss of Peter's first girlfriend is a character-defining moment) made for the purpose of adapting the property to film. Same with Batman (in both of his movie origins, creative license was taken). Yet those were officially licensed adaptations of those characters and the fans, by and large, had no real trouble accepting them.<p>Video game movies are another story, as most of the adaptations have had little to do with the games (for all the shit it gets, the first Resident Evil at least seems like it could be set in the same universe as the games and, flawed as it is, Silent Hill went to great lengths to incorporate most of the imagery and important plot beats from several of the games).<Toy movies? There haven't been many (although something tells me there will) and it's still to early in the evolution of the genre to say how they're trending (although MOTU was pretty much nothing like the toy property, the enclosed comics or the cartoon -- which was also very different from those enclosed comics).<p>So far the only pre-existing property to make the leap to the big screen without significant alteration during adaptation has been Sin City and, while that movie was visually interesting and fun, it wasn't a very good movie nor was it accessible to a wider audience than comic fans and those who loved them enough to go witht hem to the thing.<p>It's pretty clear that Dreamworks is shooting for a wider audience than that with this franchise. My concern is that, in doing so, they seem to have made some really stupid choices from a basic story logic standpoint.<p>As far as faithfulness in terms of character design, I'd say they're batting 500 so far, which is better than most pop-culture adaptations do.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:51 p.m. CST

    I always found the idea of Captain Marvel...

    by rbatty024

    more than a bit creepy. It is, after all, a grown man who inhabits the body of a prepubescent boy. It sends shivers down my spine just writing that.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:53 p.m. CST

    My point (continued)...

    by Childe Roland

    ...being, there's just no precedent for the kind of pure adaptation of any one creative team's take on a popular and enduring/ongoing property as a film.<p>As far as character design/adaptation/homage, if you wanted robot versions of these characters who were at least faithful in spirit to the G1 counterparts who shared their names, then the movie's batting over 500 for you. Optimus is clearly Optimus. Bumblebee's clearly Bumblebee. Jazz is clearly Jazz (with Owl feet) and Ratchet is clearly Ratchet. Ironhide seems to act like Ironhide (that is, like kind of a dumbass), to boot. That's better than a lot of pop culture adaptations do.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Childe Rowland, all anyone ask I think (other

    by superninja

    than diehard purists, which I am not) is that it be faithful to the spirit of the characters and the concept. (Okay, maybe I am a diehard when it comes to Prime and Megatron as well, but TF basically revolves around the two of them.) The stronger and more simple the mythology, the better it works on film. TF is at its heart about two diametrically opposed worldviews. The script is not really faithful to the premise other than superficially. Which is really a waste in my opinion because its actually very topical stuff.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Wait, I have the perfect person to play Dr. Sivana...

    by rbatty024

    Jeffrey Combs! Make it happen hollywood. Get this guy out of B-movies and onto the golden carpet. His fanbase alone will mean the film will rake in millions. Millions!

  • March 15, 2007, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Again, superninja, which characters?

    by Childe Roland

    For you it's clearly G1 cartoon. For someone else, it might be G1 comic. FOr a fair number of folks, it might be G2 and for kids (whom the film is really targetting above all else, as they're the ones who are going to buy everything with the label on it) it might be (shudder) Armada.<p>You make it sound as if the task the film makers faced was easy and there was some surefire recipe to please all transformers fans. That's just in no way true.<p>All of that said, I am getting an ever-increasing sense that the movie might be pretty dumb. But that has nothing to do with how I prefer my Prime and Megatron look or speak. It just sounds as if it was lazily written for ANY movie.

  • March 15, 2007, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Optimus doesn't have any characterization in

    by superninja

    the script. It would have to have undergone major rewrites, which I don't believe it has. All of the others are interchangeable and don't even bring up Bumblebee - surely you must be kidding. Ironhide was never a dumbass. The designs (with the exception of the ridiculous Megatron design) are the least of my problems here.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Roland you have a point....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    ...but it's more about tone and feel to me than perfect translation/adaptation. I believe it's Spidey and Batman on the screen even though some plot elements have changed, and the organic web shooters NEVER bothered me, I liked that idea ever since Spidey 2099. As much as I hate the robot designs, and I REALLY hate them, if they had gotten the characters right and at least tried to incorporate more of the original plot than just robots fighting each other I would probably be happy, or happier anyway.<p> What I don't see in TF through all of the changes, necessary or otherwise, is anyone trying capture the real essence of these characters. As much as some people try and say these characters were nothing but hollow shells in a lame cartoon, I say bollocks. These characters were very well fleshed out, especially over the course of the entire series of both comics and cartoon. I actually teared up when Prime died, he was a very real and important character for me and for many other people. Now he stumbles around in Sam's backyard stepping over chihuahuas and saying "My bad."

  • March 15, 2007, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Reading the script?

    by torgosPizza

    You guys are all basing your judgments on the script. It's kind of funny to read. Everyone is saying "It sucks from what I read" or "I read the script and I'm stoked." How many times has a script you've read turned out to be EXACTLY THE MOVIE THAT CAME OUT? Settle down and just wait for the damn movie, already.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:21 p.m. CST

    I love when people come to a discussion site...

    by Doctor_Sin

    and say not to discuss anything. It's a movie news site. They all get leaks and spoilers and previews and shit. Then, readers discuss in forums.<p>Yeah, we're not discussing it based on the whole film. But, I guarantee you there is no way to craft artistry out of peeing chihuahuas and slang (esp. my most loathed, "My bad" - God, I hate that one!).<p>This will be a case of:<p>1. Sitting in the theater watching cool sci fi action<p>2. Suffering through immeasurable amounts of struggling to make some kind of complex narrative<p>3. Watching cool giant robots<p>4. Sitting through forced humor<p>5. Sitting through forced Human Interest Story<p>6. Watching a cool battle<p>7. Suffering through more poorly-written exposition to tell the audience what is happening<p>8. Waiting for the climactic end that holds no real suspense, because you can see it all telegraphed through the whole film.<p>Where in that mess is a well-made film? It is cobbled together garbage. I was looking forward to this as a fun action romp (I'm not a TF fan), but now I am disappointed because I see what they're doing in crafting this - which is to serve up yesterday's lunch as today's casserole. Forget it.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Ganymede is a simpleton, fair enough

    by IndustryKiller!

    He's a simple guy with simple tastes. Clearly a big fan of Micahel Bay with the average American moviegoer's capacity. That's fine, if he wants to buy into the Zeitgeist and he can live with that then it's his life. Just another individual for the advancement of bad art. Apparently all he needed from the TF film was robots and action and it made no difference how it's presented. He likes bad writing too, well I suppose most people do. It's his right to like crap just like it's our right to condescend to him for doing so.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Bringing sexy back

    by wanna_bannana

    Thank you for reminding me how unwitty and consistently boring you were.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Child Roland I have never heard anyone....

    by IndustryKiller!

    Clamoring for this film to present G2 or Beast Wars. it WAS an incredibly easy recipe. G1. There that's all they had to do. Just keep the characters that were already set in stone for them by people who had a far better grasp on the subject material. Other than G1 the TF mythos is very weak, everyone agrees on that. So the filmmakers simply had to use what worked. I wouldn't have minded if they did a little tweaking on the looks of the characters for the sake of selling some toys, after all these were created to sell toys in the first place. But what Bay is doing is pathetic and given his pedigree it's going to turn out like hell.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Thanks Hairy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...but I do want to be clear on the fact that these characters (or, more accurately, characters with these names) have appeared in numerous incarnations over the lifetime of the Transformers property (seriously, Takara/Hasbro recycles names like it's going out of style).<p>And even among the classic G1 character roster, there really is no set-in-stone singular characterization (comic book Ironhide acts differently than cartoon ironhide, for example).<p>That's the point superninja is completely missing.<p>One could argue, I suppose, that the tech spec bios on the backs of the transformer toy packages were the "definitive" characterizations, and that all subsequent characterizations in any media were derivative of those. But those were character sketches at best and really only implied a direction for a character's behavior and distinguishing attributes as opposed to specific examples of what he/it would always say or do (those tech specs did include quotes which, while sometimes awful, would be kind of cool to see worked into the dialogue as a nod to fans).

  • March 15, 2007, 2:31 p.m. CST

    yack

    by wanna_bannana

    missed you buddy..glad to see your still alive, and high on cold medicine. Yeah i took a leave from this site for awhile,dropped my myspace account due to the annoying number of messages from black men wanting to make japanese porn with me.<p>But i saw the TF tb and thought "goodtimes" maybe me and you can start swinging the wrecking ball =P

  • March 15, 2007, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Come on, IndustryKiller.

    by Childe Roland

    If all decisions in the world were based on what you personally had or hadn't heard, would that be a world even you wanted to live in?<p>Yes, the die-hard G1ers were very vocal about what they wanted this film to be. Their concerns were noted, sometimes addressed in one fashion or another, but were for the most part summarily dismissed.<p>That's the way it works when you're a relatively small portion of the target market for a product. What's best for you, personally, isn't often the clearest path to financial success for the people who hold the righs to what you hold dear.<p>Now you know how a huge contingent of Star Wars fans felt when Lucas made it clear that he couldn't be bothered to give two shits about the expanded universe or what might've made for decent storytelling. The movies were still successful, and George has no regrets.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:35 p.m. CST

    Am I late to the party

    by THE KNIGHT

    What's going on in here? :)

  • March 15, 2007, 2:42 p.m. CST

    YACK

    by THE KNIGHT

    Weather is pretty decent here in NYC... Looks like it's going to rain though o_O

  • March 15, 2007, 2:46 p.m. CST

    have you tried jumping into a vat of beer?

    by just pillow talk

    bong hit, suck down a beer, do a shot, exhale...and repeat.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Yes, there have been many TF incarnations....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    But consider something for a moment Roland, through all of those incarnations there have been a few consistencies that these morons couldn't seem to get right.<p> Prime, he really is pretty much the exact same guy in every version of TFs there has ever been, even when he was a monkey....that is until now.<p> How about Starscream, Gany's favorite character, forget his monkey-bug appearance, what about the scheming bastard he was? None of that in this script.<p> Megatron, who knows because Megs is in the movie for all of 30 seconds. All we know is he's a bad guy, how deep.<p> I think we would agree that everyone who says there wasn't much to these characters is full of shit, they had personality, personalities that this movie is ignoring in favor of piss jokes and Megan Fox's lovely rack, okay that last part ain't so bad.

  • March 15, 2007, 2:47 p.m. CST

    tis only March after all...

    by just pillow talk

    we've been lucky so far, but I had high hopes that we would be in the clear. Damn you weather bug!

  • March 15, 2007, 2:55 p.m. CST

    YACK

    by THE KNIGHT

    Holy shit.. I just went to weather.com... I can't believe it's going to snow... What the hell is up with this weather!?? <p> I live in the Brooklyn area... Has its good days... Get sick of the fools though..

  • March 15, 2007, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Hot green tea and Vietnamese soup are my meds

    by Doctor_Sin

    Stick with chicken, not beef, and transparent rice noodles instead of egg noodles. If you can handle the spiciness, make sure to put some (a few squirts) Sriracha chili paste in the broth.<p>If you live near a really good Chinatown, and are not afraid of trying different kinds of food, Rice Soup (sometimes labeled porridge) with Thousand-Year Old Egg is a wonderful meal for restoring your system. It's delicious.<p>Basically, I eat anything light/brothy that is very spicy to help raise my temp and break a sweat to clear my head.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:06 p.m. CST

    You're right on Prime, Hairy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...except that I learned recently the monkey wasn't supposed to be the same Prime, rather a descendant of some sort (which brings up the whole question/image of Transformers getting it on, which is just too much for me right now). He's had pretty much the same defining characteristics and the same voice in most of his incarnations. And, at least as far as I can tell, he's got most of those in this (not sure about the "my bad" dialogue, but Prime in the toon wasn't above making a corny joke at the end of an episode)<p>Starscream's a different animal. He was definitely a schemer and a potential pain in Megatron's ass a lot of the time. But in one of the more recent incarnations, he's actually Megatron's most loyal soldier and supporter. He's almost portrayed as a hero in terms of his unquestioning devotion and adherance to a code of honor. I'm not fond of that portrayal, but it was right there on the tech specs when I bought the thing for my nephew and, sure as shit, when I watched the toon with him, there was a noble Starscream up there on the screen. I'm actually more pissed off by Starscream's appearance in this movie than what appears to be a lack of characterization. And that's just because I think the design looks retarded.<p>I do think we agree that, in a lot of their incarnations, the Transformers have been given a lot of character (especially Beast Wars, which kind of blew the G1 cartoon away in terms of consistency/quality /complexity of writing). But with few exceptions (mainly Prime and Megatron), those characterizations haven't been very consistent from iteration to iteration.<p>I really know nothing about what Megatron does in this movie. I've just seen some kind of baffling character designs (why couldn't they have just made him a tank like the G2 version?). So for me it's too early to talk about whether they got him at all "right" in terms of what all the different Megatrons in Transformer history have seemed to be about -- pretty simplistic domination of a resource, be it territory or energon -- and the elimination of any obstacle to that goal).<p>I just think there are probably more legitiate things to beef about here than the fact that the film makers didn't pick and stick exclusively to the G1 cartoon mythos. I understand why they didn't and, if the movie turns out to be decent (looking less and less likely the more I see), that won't bug me at all.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:08 p.m. CST

    p.s. - Salsa Verde is great, the hotter the better

    by Doctor_Sin

    I'm lucky to live among so many excellent Mexican restaurants. Between that and hot Chinese mustard and wasabi, my sinuses stay open plenty.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Get better, Yack

    by Doctor_Sin

    And, if you like cilantro, add it to anything like tacos, salads, soups, etc.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Starscream....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    That's really weird, it sounds like they substituted Starscream's normal personality with Soundwave's in that newer show.<p> Honestly, I always found Starscream's voice rather annoying and grating, especially when he became Cobra Commander, so a change like that wouldn't bother me at all. But having the coniving schemer in the background working as a third, independant party has great storytelling potential that sadly has been wasted here. Treated seriously, there could actually be some good drama built around Starscream's traditional personality.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:21 p.m. CST

    The Wisdom of Megatron

    by ProfGriffin

    Remember: Power flows to the one who KNOWS how...desire alone is not enough. You have made it clear your desire to replace me as Leader of the Decepticons...mistake number one. You failed to dispose of me when you had the chance Starscream...mistake number 2! Man, that's good stuff.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:28 p.m. CST

    You might be right on the starscream/soundwave...

    by Childe Roland

    ...personality swap, Hairy. Now that I think of it, I think it was this same line (and I can't remember now if it's Armada or Energon or what) where Soundwave's bio indicates he's always quietly listening and storing information on the other decepticons...including Megatron...to advance his own position and power.<p>I actually kind of liked this characterization better for Soundwave than the way he was always portrayed int he G1 cartoon (kind of like Megatron's life partner/prison bitch).<p>Seriously, though, I think Hasbro has about three different transformer universes going simultaneously in the toy aisles right now. And both Soundwave and Starscream are portrayed in at least two very different ways in them. It's downright confusing.

  • March 15, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    NICE TO SEE

    by THE KNIGHT

    Everyone getting along... even if it's just for a few minutes... <p> I've actually never heard of Grimaldi's Pizza... I'm gonna have to check that out YACK...

  • March 15, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Soundwave by Childe

    by ProfGriffin

    Man, that takes me back. LOVED Soundwave's VOICE like an old school cylon on qualudes. And who can forget that 'gang' of his. Rumble, Ravage, Laserbeak...PREPARE for Flight: Operation: WARFARE! Eject! LOL. Oh man...I know it would be hard to recreate Soundwave as he was...but surely someone with a love for the original series could have 'snuck' something like this in as a nod. Nothing too deep or critical, but a bone thrown to fans to acknowledge the history. Maybe Soundwave can eject CDs that morph ala liquid metal? AH...Never mind...

  • March 15, 2007, 3:52 p.m. CST

    suck on a nutsack, harry

    by WolfmanNards

    I love how you aloborate on details that aren't important to the article. "so I've seen the 20-25 minutes of TRANSFORMERS footage that Michael Bay and folks unleashed on SHOWEST tonight. Only - I've seen it twice and at the Drafthouse." At first we're like, "oh cool, you saw some transformers shit, then you're like 'which i've already seen twice' at which point we come to understand that you're not writing this to describe what you saw, you're flaunting it to let us know that YOU saw it. Nobody comes here because they think you're cool. They come here for movie news. Suck a sack, shit hose.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Childe Rowland, I would settle for a character, period.

    by superninja

    In all likelyhood I would still continue to complain about it not being G1 enough, or whatever, but at least it would be a character. They're really two different issues here.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:13 p.m. CST

    You know, ProfGriffin, Soundwave was easily...

    by Childe Roland

    ...my favorite Transformer toy as a kid. And even though I thought he was kind of a wuss in the cartoon (especially for such a bad-ass looking bot), that voice absolutely ruled. And his cassette army...how cool was that?!?!<p>I held on to Soundwave long after bequeathing the rest of my Transformers to my younger brother, and even went out and picked up the Autobot tape deck and all the new tape bots when they came out several years later (I was in High School by then, so it was totally a stealth mission...if only I had an alt mode I could've used as a disguise).<p>True geek confession? I've already pre-ordered the transforming MP3 Takara designed to look like a more streamlined Soundwave...and I'm probably going to pop for the Rumble/Frenzy earphones, too.<p>So I guess I'm Soundwave's prison bitch.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Yeah, it's like saying science has reached a

    by superninja

    consensus on global warming. It's just trying to get everyone to stop debating! Step up or step out, pansies!

  • March 15, 2007, 4:15 p.m. CST

    I hope during the rewrite it has Jazz saying

    by superninja

    "I know you did not just do that!" and then breakdancing.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:17 p.m. CST

    No YOU come on Childe Roland

    by IndustryKiller!

    What I want??? Umm like i said I have yet to see a single person who wants anything other than a G1 Transformers film. But let's ignore that for a minute. You talk alot about financial success. I'm not exactly clear what the rationale is in what Michael Bay is doing somehow being more financially successful than something closer to a G1 film. I'm not asking for Shakespeare, or that the film spend alot of time showing Optimus Primes relationship to his drunken father, I don;t need an intimate indie pic. All that I care about is that the characters are the ones that made the franchise successful and the designs arent COMPLETELY off the fucking deep end. I don't need a dark "adult" version of the Transformers by any means. I'm not asking for the world here. I think its more than reasonable that a film titled Transformers would actually bear some resemblence to its namesake. And yes that resemblence goes a bit beyond just having robots in disguise. We don't look back so fondly on Transformers because there were giant robots in it, you don't hear anyone waxing poetic about the Go-Bots after all. It was the characters we fell in love with. I don't see how changing the characters in the capacity they did is going to make them any more money then keeping the spirit of the original, which EVERYBODY agrees is the best incarnation. Like I said above, no person not already familiar with TF would look at the G1 design of Megatron and say "Boy that movie was good but Megatron should really have had more spikes and should have been a retarded looking alien spacecraft instead of a gun." There is just nothing to indicate that the patht hey chose is going to make them more money. Either way the film would have had giant robots fighting the only difference is one way pisses of the fanbase and the other way doesnt. So why choose the former? You're implication that there are too many incarnations of TF to please everyone is off base considering that every single person who is angry is agry specifically because it's not closer to G1. Not beast wars, not G2, SPECIFICALLY G1. I mean look at ProfGriffin talking about the characters of olde in his post above, that dude loves those characters. Who is Michael Bay to piss on that? And yes studios think about financial gain, but that doesn't mean we should condone it at the expense of quality. Implying that I should hold my criticism because people are going to make money is the most ridiculous concept I've ever heard. And using George Lucas as an example is the second most ridiculous. Lucas made alot of money off the prequels.....so. fucking. what? Are you saying he would have made less money if the prequels were good? Because I bet a pretty good argument could be made that he would have made a ton more money. And even if he wouldnt have, was making money worth his credibility? he was already a billionaire, you'd think at that point any self respecting human being would have wanted to make something that actually had merit. Yes George Lucas has another billion to put on top of his already monumental stack, but now his legacy is forever tarnished by having made three of the worst films of all time out of three of the best. If you want to defend the practice of making money at the expense of a good product then you are part of the cancer that is killing the film industry today.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Even if I was not crazy about TF, that script

    by superninja

    would still suck. It reduces them to nothing more than giant transforming robots, there is no sense of fantasy or mythology about it.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:23 p.m. CST

    And what's with making everything alien look like

    by superninja

    some kind of insect? One of the things about TF's original designs that made them interesting was that they adapted to Earth modes to disguise themselves. On Cybertron, I admit the designs were not that great, rather generic, but this actually worked to their benefit when they came to Earth, like wearing a disguise. If they wanted to build off of that, they could've simply said that they look more alien in appearance but the Ark reconfigured them to appear less hostile to the intelligent life forms on the planet. As it stands now, the designs are ugly, but they don't look alien, either. They look constructed by humans because of the fact they were attempting too much realism. This movie could've been a whole lot more intelligent and creative in its basic premise.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:26 p.m. CST

    They look like some ugly reverse engineering.

    by superninja

    It would've been better to leave their transformations more mysterious since they are supposed to be aliens. Just goes to show you how the filmmakers view them.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland's confession

    by ProfGriffin

    LOL. Thanks for sharing that. I too loved the Soundwave toy...he was a VERY cool toy. Remember Frenzy? Rumble's little punk twin? Technically the toys were my younger brother's and my older brother and I would play with him...cause we were cool like that. LOL. Oh, We watched the cartoons, did the voices and really enjoyed the epic that was unfolding (to our younger perceptions). Now, I grew up in the 70's...Star Wars etc, but I could certainly acknowledge that the property was cool, and that some work DID go into developing the characters. I agree with whoever said: Anyone who thinks that the cartoon was ONLY a commercial to sell toys...just didn't watch the Cartoon. Hey, has anyone seen that Megatron MP-05 Masterpiece figure from Japan! Oh my, that thing is beautiful. (FROM TOY FARE MAGAZINE) Megatron: Guns don't kill people...I KILL PEOPLE. AND...I'm a gun. LOL.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:36 p.m. CST

    We're done talking, IndustryKiller.

    by Childe Roland

    Not because I don't have anything more to type to you that, if you bothered to think about things from any point of view other than your own, you might find enlightening or at least curious, but because you use terms like "EVERYBODY" as though you have the first clue what you're talking about and because you seem to think I'm telling you to hold your criticism. I'm not. I'm telling you to try and put it in perspective and understand that very little of the world, if any, revovles around your particular preferences, wants or needs.<p>Good luck in the miserable life you've ensured for yourself. Sucks to be you.<p>Anyone else want to talk about Transformers without sounding like a spoilt six-year-old who didn't get the right color Power Ranger for his birfday?

  • March 15, 2007, 4:45 p.m. CST

    And why do these robots need to invade the

    by superninja

    Earth to get the Matrix? It's a total deus ex machina like Independence Day. The original concept of the war decimating their natural resources was far superior.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Yeah, ProfGriffin, I got the best of the 70s and...

    by Childe Roland

    ...the 80s as a kid, between inheriting my older brother's 12-inch G.I. Joes and Shogun Warriors and being just the right age for a huge Star Wars figure collection. Then fouor-inch G.I. Joe and Transformers came out and, for thelast couple years of my childhood (I played it out as long as I could), I was like a pig in shit.<p>Thing is, I see the way the kids today play with their toys (the ones who do...an alarming number have gone all digital with their free time) and they dig their version of G.I. Joe (who is something like six inches tall now for some reason) and Transformers (which are, as discussed above, all over the place) just as much.<p>So it's kind of hard for me to say something like "My transformers is the only real transformers" knowing that some kid may go into the theater expecting something else entirely.<p>That said, regardless of which version of Transformers the film uses (or doesn't use) I think any fan of the concept is entitled to a well-written, well-acted, just generally well-done movie. I'm hoping against hope this one can still turn out that way. Not too optimistic any more, though.

  • March 15, 2007, 4:58 p.m. CST

    I figured you couldn't retort Childe

    by IndustryKiller!

    And i'm not saying that to be vindictive or mean, I really expected it. If there is some clamor for an existing version of Transformers (G2, Beast Wars, Energon) besides G1 then by all means cure me of my ignorance. The majority for G1 is so strong that the generality more than applies. Besides that I brought up many points which, predictably, you didn't address. For someone so childish it's odd I'm the only one actually making a logical argument. Next.

  • March 15, 2007, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Childe, if anyone thought they were building a

    by superninja

    better character, I think we would all have the wait and see approach.

  • March 15, 2007, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Hmm........ where's the other topic?

    by Doc_Strange

    Guess I got em with that whole viewing the movie on XVID thing eh?

  • March 15, 2007, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Actually IndustryKiller, if you missed my retort...

    by Childe Roland

    ...then you're thicker than you seem.<p>There was no contingent clamoring louder than the G1 contingent. I never once implied there was. I stated the fact that numerous iterations, each with their own fan bases (some of which aren't old enough to know they need to bitch on message boards), exist and that no one version of Transformers is in any way more legitimate or true than the other.,p>Sorry, but if you want logic, that's as cold and hard as it gets.<p>But you aren't interested in logical discussion. You are an angry little boy who didn't get his way. I offered several perfectly reasonable explanations for why your way might not have been the best way in the eyes of the studio. Like a typical angry little boy, you refused to listen to or entertain the possible merit of any of those possible reasons. Instead, you continue to assert that the loudest whiners should always get their way.<p>There's no dealing logically with someone like that. I can retort all day long, but you're going to read what you want to into whatever I type and believe what you set out to believe in the first place. Again...good luck with that. The world isn't a kind place for folks like you.<p>Still think I'll make a good father, Yack?<p>;^)

  • March 15, 2007, 5:35 p.m. CST

    Industry Killed the the Video Star!

    by number5withabullet

    Industry Killer, please stop the pontificating. You need to keep your criticism to "I didn't like the script, it destroyed the established personalities of the characters." That would be something I would listen to. Now you just seem pissed off because you know they are going to sell billions of dollars worth of toys after the release. Cool down, brohan. I also STRONGLY dissagree that source material does not need to be updated/altered for an update. People would most certainly laugh at a Transformers movie that kept all original designs. Us fanboys would be happy as pigs in shit, but we don't make up the target demographic of this film. This film is aimed at 10-15 year old boys who couldn't name a Transformer if it got them past their parent's computer porn blocks. The intention of a remake is to bring the story to a new audience, and when your audience is being defined by the things THEY see and WHAT HAPPENS DURING THEIR LIFETIMES you ultimately have to make a change. Yes, I hate a lot of them. Some I don't mind so much. Nevertheless, it's the nature of the business. Look at "Batman Begins", which everyone on this board compares "Casablanca" it seems. You have three different generations of batman, starting with the campy Adam West version. Look at the Batmobile. In the sixties it was based off of the chassey of a Licoln Futura, which was a show car designed to rival the Mustang. It was showy and tough, and people dug it. If a new Batman show was produced and they used BM1 people would think it looked rediculous. Period. Flash forward a bit, and Burton's 1989 Batman was hand crafted and was 100% as funtional as it was in the movie. While they created their own design, it's obvious that they took some of the Corvette stylings packed with some of the features of the first breed of new age sports cars. (The Stingray was actually gaining popularity, even though the last model was made in '82) People dug it. If it was the batmobile in "Begins" would people dig it? Eh? Maybe..... Now we have a hummer for a batmobile, and have you looked outside to see what people drive when they want to feel like a badass? You get my point. Updating details is a neccesary evil, unfortunately for us. I see that a lot of people say they have read this script as well, and I don't really believe that considering how hard it was to secure one for myself. In a locked room. To read under supervision. So I wouldn't copy it. I'm going to blow the bullshit whistle and say MOST of you haven't read the script, not neccesarily you Industry Killer, but most people. I don't have a real history with Transformers lore so I actually quite enjoyed moments in the script. The opening is kinetic, and I've found a lot of times it's hard for me to clearly imagine an action scene based off of what I was reading, but the Quatar attack was written with an honest sense of geography and pace, while maintaining it's desciptiveness. Now in all honestly I got to page 60 before I had to hand the script back, and I had some problem with the dialogue and Shia's character in the second act. (He's in it a bit too much. The character becomes annoying) but it looked as though the pace was being set to really knock it out of the park in the third. Regardless, I've read scripts that were FAR more tedious and insepid, some of which have actully been trimmed and shaped up during the course of production and ended up being quality films. Some of the BEST scripts I've read didn't turn out well at all. (Personally, I really liked the script for "Dragonfly" and "The Covenant", at least enough to not think they would end up as total garbage. Also, "Covenant" got the balls and heart trimmed right off of it sometime during production.) This is a long post. I better stop. All I'm saying is you might want to be a little more open minded. I dislike Bay as well, I don't even like the movies that everyone else likes that he's done, but the footage looks pretty servicable and I have a feeling I will be pleasantly happy after I see it.

  • March 15, 2007, 5:46 p.m. CST

    The Rock as STRETCH ARMSTRONG!!!

    by number5withabullet

    Then we can make all our favorite toys into movies! Think about it man! "My Little Pony 2: Ponies in Power", "My Buddy - Bites Back", "Crossfire - the motion picture about marbles", and of course let's not forget "Hungry Hungry Hippos go to White Castle."

  • March 15, 2007, 5:59 p.m. CST

    number5withabullet, you already admitted

    by superninja

    you have no reference for Transformers. Fair enough, but why are you complaining about people who do?

  • March 15, 2007, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Most patriotic thing ive heard in a long time

    by Macktheknife01

    "after a particularly awesome shot of troops being annihilated" good job troops thanks for defending us, oh and the by the way watching you get killed by huge robots really turned on this red headed austinite

  • March 15, 2007, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Number5withabullet and Childe

    by IndustryKiller!

    I gotta say man great post. Childe Roland pay attention. First of all I think you will be surprised to hear I agree with you wholeheartedly on almost all of your points. In fact I have a post above that might clarify some things. It's a big talkback so I dont blame you for not seeing it. Basically man Ive been saying exactly "I didn't like the script, it destroyed the established personalities of the characters." In the earlier post I said i completely understand there have to be some changes. But changes need to be WITHIN REASON. Which so far, and I dont think too many people would disagree with me here, they really arent. I dont think they need to adhere to every little aspect of G1, but I think it lays a very solid blueprint. Well more than a blueprint, a foundation at the least. Transformers were made to sell toys so I get that they must change the look of characters so they dont just re-release the same toys they have re-released a hundred times. But good god man, look at Megatron. megatron is the poster boy for Michael bay's hubris thus far. it's one thing to change the design, its another to throw everything we know as even remotely Megatron-like (venomy?) and throw it totally out the window. Which bay seems to be doing consistently. Also the script is garbage. Have worse scripts been produced? Yes of course. But it just does not retain the essence of Transformers. With that said I didn't expect Hollywood to do sucha thing, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it. SImple point, its going to be a terrible film, if you like it thats fine but dont try to excuse it. Of course kids will love it, kids love anything, you can't defend garbage by saying "Kids will love it!" You can please both kids and adult, its possible, I seen it. And I know there will be older people who liked it, last summer it was X3, this summer its Transformers. There is just no accounting for taste. BTW Number5 if you want to read the rest of the script I can send it to you. As for you CHilde ROland, I understand exactly why the studio didnt make the film the fans wanted them to make, I fucking live in LA and I hear the horror stories constantly, and this one doesnt seem to be a whole lot different. That does not mean one should excuse it. The fact that reasons exist for their choices does not make those reasons right. And Im not sure how Im not down for logical discussion. I didnt call you names like you did to me. I stated many points clearly and logically why I feel the way I do. you chose not to address them because you felt there is no point. Fair enough, but dont call me the child when i lay my point of view on the table with the logic to back it up and you come at me with names and assumptions as to my character. And as you said no contigent was clamoring louder than the G1 contigent, true, but Im quite anaware of any other contigent even whispering. Show me the post of people talking about how the film betrays or conveys perfectly the stylings of Beast Wars or G2. Do those other contigents even exist? Yes hey are probably younger, but with that said a younger generation doesnt give a shit about any of the content of a transformers film. You dont have to wrestle with that audience because htey are too young to be anything but ambivalent. I certainly was when I was a kid. That doesn't mean older generations can't point out obvious cinematic wrongdoing when it occurs. I never said G1 was the ONLY TRUE version of Transformers, but when the beast wars kids come of age they have every right to gripe to the studio when they fuck up Transformers 4: Beast Wars. Until then its about 99% G1 fans, and we're the only ones of age to see what a horrible film Michael bay is making.

  • March 15, 2007, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Megatron is way too venomy.

    by superninja

    Like, off the charts.

  • March 15, 2007, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Megatron In Name Only

    by finky089

    MINO! Seriously, they fucked that 'bot up badly in art design. That alone leasves an incredibly bad taste in my mouth for this flick.

  • March 15, 2007, 7:28 p.m. CST

    Ginrei724

    by THE KNIGHT

    Bringing things back to normal ehhh! <p> My greedy ass shall check that link out Yack... I wouldn't be suprised if you owned the place!

  • March 15, 2007, 8:04 p.m. CST

    GAYTARD

    by tom_quinn

    I just want to clarify that i hold the patent on gaytarded. it's my word. you all owe me 35 cents. pay up.

  • March 15, 2007, 8:07 p.m. CST

    wanna_bananna

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    RE: BringingSexyBack - "Thank you for reminding me how unwitty and consistently boring you were."<P>The funniest post in this TB. Thanks!

  • March 15, 2007, 8:24 p.m. CST

    The fact of the matter is.......

    by Doc_Strange

    If you wanted to see this film because you thought it was going to be a phenomenon (before they brought in Michael Bay), along with a great story chronicling the million yeats struggle between autobot and decepticon and how it focused on their point of view then you're the people that should be heard and respected as you want something special from your movies. You have a high standard and movies such as what Transformers was supposed to be was to be revered and celebrated upon its release. However....... If you're the kind that just wants to see "me big robot, kill you big robot, oh, my bad", " I piss motor oil on you, hahaha", big explosions, trite storyline, some kid's sexual awakening, etc., well, you are in fact what is called the lowest common denominator. Yes, this film is tailor-made for you, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Hitcher remake crowd. You know it to be true. And no I will not pay to see this so don't even bother with that retort. As I said before, downloaded in XVID, played on media player 6.4 - in other words, FUCK YOU!!!

  • March 15, 2007, 8:41 p.m. CST

    Gaius

    by wanna_bannana

    I hate to correct you since i love you to death but the funniest post in this TB was that troll that said " just keeping it real....yo" who uses that phrase now adays? i would say a white guy in his 50's who thinks that spouting african american slang when you are in fact white... is still cool.<p>I had the strangest dream Gaius!!....you were there...and you to yackbacker, as well as Bad wonka. ~strokes toto~<p>I missed you meat puppets!! xxoo

  • March 15, 2007, 9:14 p.m. CST

    Gee, thanks wanna...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...and now I suddenly feel like the Tinman!<P>As for "just keeping it real...yo", ummm...yeah. I'm still bemused by what people type here sometimes. Even more so by what some think passes as "funny"...

  • March 15, 2007, 9:14 p.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Jealous?

  • March 15, 2007, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Thanks for making wanna_bananna's point.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Again.

  • March 15, 2007, 9:34 p.m. CST

    The Point

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    How unwitty and consistently boring you are. Thanks for making it again.

  • March 15, 2007, 10:12 p.m. CST

    Slow night for Transformers Tb...WTF!

    by S-Mart shopper

    The hater juice is drying up.

  • March 15, 2007, 10:36 p.m. CST

    I see Howard the Duck numbers for this movie

    by S-Mart shopper

    give or take a 100mill

  • March 15, 2007, 11:53 p.m. CST

    I saw The Pogues tonight at Roseland in NYC

    by Bronx Cheer

    They were great, and Shane MacGowan is the original singing zombie.

  • March 16, 2007, midnight CST

    Michael Bay will be sucking cock for ca$h

    by Doctor_Sin

    Out of work directors GOTTA EAT.

  • March 16, 2007, 12:17 a.m. CST

    Not much of a debate.

    by one9deuce

    The Transformer's popularity is so high because the toy manufacturers, comic books, and especially the cartoon created great characters. Period. There were plenty of other big robot toys from the 80's, trust me I was there, but nothing came close to having the following of The Transformers. When Sunbow created the cartoon they hired the best voice talent in the industry, and that made a HUGE difference. Just think of how distinctive all the different Autobots and Decepticons sounded. Some really great character work. Think of Grimlock, Megatron, Optimus Prime, Perceptor, Blur, Starscream, Kup, the Insecticons, Blaster, Jazz, Bumblebee, Ironhide, and Soundwave. Anyone who was a fan of the first two seasons of the show and the feature film knows exactly how ALL those characters sound. They all had very distinct personalities. <p> We aren't getting those great characters in the live-action movie, we are just getting big transforming robots. Anyone who thinks that a film can be great without having memorable characters is delusional.

  • March 16, 2007, 12:41 a.m. CST

    Doctor Sin.... TBers thinking in the extremes...

    by moto

    You wrote, "I'm just amazed that some people will look at a film and choose to ignore its worst elements just because of a handful of good elements." <p> Well said. But I'M just amazed that some people will look at a film and choose to ignore its GOOD elements just because of a handful of BAD elements. <P> My example in my humble opinion is VERY representative of the majority of TBers. Your example is representative of people like me and many others here that understand movies can't be either "fucking brilliant" or "fucking horrible", as is the grading scale here at AICN talkbacks. It doesn't work that way. I'm glad to be of the latter example, yours, that can really enjoy the movie experience a hell of a lot more than most because we take what we liked, embrace it, and move on. Example: I'm not a huge Spider-Man supporter at all. I would go so far as to call it VERY overrated, IN MY EYES. But it's not "fucking horrible". I liked some aspects (first 40 minutes or so of the first), and the rest that I didn't like... I move on. <p> In the end, after watching Transformers, I may not like certain aspects of it. But I might love other aspects of it (Seriously guys, WE GET TO SEE TRANSFORMERS IN A LIVE ACTION MOVIE WITH PETER CULLEN AS PRIME AND THE CLASSIC TRANSFORMING SOUND EFFECTS!!!)... what's wrong with that? Some here say, "Oh, you're part of the problem then because you demand less... you settle for mediocrity". What a bullshit point of view. Movies are about entertainment. If you want to NOT be "part of the problem" the only thing you can do is go make a fucking fantastic movie yourself. "But you can not go watch these shitty movies... that's making a difference." Bullshit. If I didn't go WATCH the movies, then I wouldn't know what is good, bad, great, so-so, etc. etc. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. I'm sounding redundant if you've read earlier posts, but stop thinking so black and white.

  • March 16, 2007, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Just read the script again and....

    by IndustryKiller!

    it was fucking PAINFUL. It's been 6 months since i read it the first time and I had forgotten the details of how awful it was. No one who reads that script and loves Transformers could possibly say that the film is even going to be watchable. Ill say one thing about teh film, they for the msot part get Optimus Prime right. he's heroic, steady, and compasionate and with peter Cullens voice should be a joy. The good begins and ends right there. Everything else about the script is completely weak. When you see the film don't blame the actors if they are bad, it's almost impossible to deliver dialogue that fucking terrible. the script hits literally every cliche in the book. The cheesy soldier dialogue, the nerdy kid withthe crush on the hot girl who dates the jock, the sleazy government agent, the techno dweeb, the person who know what they are doing but the ignorant government men won't listen. Everyone of them, as if ripped right out of the script to Independence Day. Whoever writes dialogue like that should be shot for crimes against art. You might say "Who cares about the humans, its the robots that count." Well You better care about the humans because they comprise at least 75% of the film. That's right, the Transformers get shortchanged in the Transformers movie. Witht he exeption of Optimus Prime and the literally 5 minutes Megatron is in the film every other Transformer is completely indistinguishable from the next. Starscream, so wonderfully conniving, annoying, and hateable in the cartoon, has but two lines and they are both in the alien Decepticon language. And Soundwave......oh poor Soundwave. Absolutely murdered in this script. Hes described as being pencil thin and creepy looking and he never utters a line. Robbing Soundwave of his voice and place at Megatron's right hand makes the character SOundwave in name only. The rest of the Decepticons and Autobots barely register, given absolutely nothing to do. Bumblebee as we know can't even speak but at least they attempt to explain it. Not only that but the Decepticons have some ridiculous plan that makes all human machines sprout legs and start running around. And for anyone who has taken issue with Bays product placement in previous films get ready, because this could literally have the highest product placement ratio of any film made in the history of time. It's in the fucking script for chrissakes. Not to mention the completely anticlimactic ending that for some reason Scorpinok, after having sucha huge presence earlier, never shows up to. This isn't a Transformers movie, its not even a good big robot movie. I cannot fathom what kind of idiot over the age of 15 would enjoy this, but then again I guess that's the point.

  • March 16, 2007, 1 a.m. CST

    Superninja... regarding early scripts, etc.

    by moto

    I know we've written about it before, but I still can't grasp your viewpoint regarding you being able to know if a movie is going to be good or not, based on a dated script and images, etc. i.e Without seeing the movie. It just doesn't add up for me I guess. You can't judge a film until you've seen the end product because of the dozens upon dozens of drafts of the script before production begins and even after it begins, as well as the work and progression of the production of the script. <p> I used to be a reader for Sony, thus I've read hundreds of terrible scripts. Some of those scripts get through the system based on the name of the writer, strength of the overall concept etc. And some of those terrible scripts were developed enough throughout a period of time and managed to be pretty good movies overall. It's a huge process. Yes, you see similar scenes in the trailers compared to the script we've all read, but most of those have been some of the key action and effect sequences... the stuff that usually stays within the drafts because producers like them for whatever reason. So much can change. We have yet to see ANY footage of the scenes in between those set pieces... the scenes that build the character and emotion, etc. We haven't seen ANYTHING like that for the most part... especially regarding the Transformers. That online script reads very much like one of the first drafts of a big budget flick. Those first drafts usually have the broad strokes in there for the studio/producers to look at. The ideas. Thus begins the rewrite upon rewrite, etc. etc. etc. I'm not saying Transformers is going to be awesome. I can't. I'm just saying there's no basis to judge the OVERALL PRODUCT. There are plenty of flicks that I just don't go see because they don't interest me. Nothing wrong with that. But to judge those flicks as either good or bad doesn't hold any weight. <P> Okay, I've written too much. Just interested in your viewpoint.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:22 a.m. CST

    moto, there is really no evidence that this script

    by superninja

    has gone through significant rewrites. In fact, from all evidence, it appears that they filmed the script they are claiming was a draft, complete with the same dialogue from the script (Optimus saying "My bad." is a new one, though). The plot is the same, and it's a chase movie that as IndustryKiller points out, does not center on the Transformers but on the humans who are all canned characters. The plot is no good - the motivation is weak and it's just a flat chase movie with some pretty effects that will wear thin for lack of characterization. The scene with Optimus and the Autobots in surburbia, for instance, proves that they kept in the stupid glasses thing and the race for the Matrix. Which means that it's still leading to the ending that's in the script, this is supported by other scenes that have been shown by the filmmakers as well. When they said they were going to change dialogue it was generally understood that they were going to beef up some of the dialogue between the robots, but they never said anything about rewriting the script or deleting/adding scenes, so I don't know where people get the idea. Of course, it's always an option as with any movie. But why believe that when the opposite seems to be more likely?

  • March 16, 2007, 1:26 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller, you know what else I don't get?

    by superninja

    The whole taglines about the bringing the war to us, and no matter who wins we lose...the consequences of this are never felt in the script at all. Basically, you are warned that the Spark can do something really bad, and then nothing ever happens. Am I remembering this correctly? It's been awhile since I read it.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:32 a.m. CST

    But it is true that the Scorpinok and Blackout

    by superninja

    sequences they are showing are the only well-executed parts of the script.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:34 a.m. CST

    It's also interesting that the scene they sandwiched

    by superninja

    in between their two best actions scenes - the Autobots in surburbia - (which was in the draft script) is being less well recieved compared to the action scenes. Most of the script is like that when it comes to the robots except when they are fighting.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:37 a.m. CST

    In the end...

    by moto

    You, nor I, nor anyone here will know until we see the movie. I don't have a problem with the glasses thing, personally. McGuffins like that usually just get the action and story into play in moves like this. For me, it's unrealistic to think that the online script is/was the final shooting draft... i.e. what we'll see on the big screen in July. Everything that I'VE gone through working in the studio system says that it is in no way the final draft. The evidence thus far only proves that the writers stayed true to the concept and major action sequences shown in the online version. There's SO MUCH we haven't seen yet. Dozens of pages worth of scenes. And both you and I cannot assume to know what is still in there or not. Anyway, it's clear we'll agree to disagree I guess. I see where you're coming from though. The stuff you've seen just doesn't connect with you. No problem with that. I can't wait to check it out though. Who knows, maybe you're right. But also, maybe not.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:39 a.m. CST

    That's true. It doesn't connect with me.

    by superninja

    Look, I would admit if it was a good script even if it wasn't a good TF script. It's not. It does piss me off that they completely blew the premise and either misunderstand why people love the property or have the hubris to try to reinvent the wheel regardless.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:49 a.m. CST

    And if they rewrote the script into a completely

    by superninja

    new script with characters and a good story, I will be the first to admit it. After someone else tells me about it after seeing the film.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Umm ninja....and Gany....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    "Whoever wins we lose" was the tag line for AvP, not the TF movie. LOL<p> Gany if you're right and they did write new dialogue or plot or something that actually gives Starscream back his coniving personality then that's one of the few positive things I've heard about this movie, and I sincerely hope they did it. Of course you read the script, and if they are lying and they didn't add anything, then Starscream is just another souless automaton like the rest of the robots as we have come to know them from the script.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:55 a.m. CST

    Hairy, I wasn't sure that's why I asked.

    by superninja

    Even if they did put a line back in with Starscream taking a swipe at Megs, it doesn't make up for the rest.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:57 a.m. CST

    Yeah... it is a bit uneven

    by moto

    By that I mean we have the badass Transformers story (Autobots vs. Decepticon parts, soldiers vs. Decepticons, etc.) and then we have the detached kid whose boring and sad life is changed when he meets new friends in the form of the Autobots. It's clear that the studio/writers/director/producers wanted to reach a wider demographic with the latter. I'm willing to forgive that and let the younger audience enjoy that aspect while I enjoy the aforementioned story of Autobots vs. Decepticons, soldiers vs. Decepticons, etc. Thinking like a studio, having that kid story lets the younger audience get involved, thus they'll drag their parents to see it a couple of times. More $$. Oh well. But if I get my fix too, then I'm fine. Then in the sequel they can focus on the character of the Transformers now that the concept has been introduced.

  • March 16, 2007, 2:03 a.m. CST

    Superninja

    by IndustryKiller!

    Youa re very right about the consequences of the war never really being present. It is talked about but dramatically never felt. And alsot here is maybe two seconds int he entire script when you think any real danger is present. Although what you said about the spark being very powerful isn't necessarily the case. It says Megatron absorbs the sparks of those he kills to gain power, but then its more or less dropped. Although why Megatron need the energon cube to take over machines isnt really known considering I think at one point he does it without the cube. The movie just takes so god damn long to get to the point, and when it finally does there isn't single surprise in sight, its as by the number and lazy as you can possibly get. Megatron is never set up as being any more powerful than any other Transformer and his role as a presence before he comes to life isn't really felt. When he does finally appear, there is a very small but admittedly good exchange between him and Optimus but its over before you can blink and megatron is dead. The decepticons also seem to routinely go down like bitches, at least in the script. ANd since i generally feel that Bay is a terrible director of action I dont hold out alot of hope for the final product. Now about the authenticity of the script look folks....every scene I have seen in pictures or description is in there almost exactly as written in the script and according to IMDB ALL the character names are identical, so it's a VERY safe bet at this point that the script is extremely close to what was shot. Given that, the script focuses HEAVILY ont he human characters who are just the blandest cliches one could think of. In fact on the cliche scale the script reminds me so much of Independence Day that I think ROland Emmerich should sue. The difference is that unlike Independence day almost nothing whatsoever happens, and there is absolutely no sense of dread or wonderment. On top of that any of the actual MYTHOS that the Transformers legacy is absolutely brewing with is totally absent. The screenwriter also seems to think that the Transformers are only interesting when swayed heavily toward the humans as our avatars into this world. this is a fallacy for two reasons. The first is that the humans are written atrociously, making them impossible to relate to. the second is that part of the appeal of TF has always been the very distinct and almost human personalities of the robots themselves. Every one had their own hang-ups and needs, which is something the film never explores. The Decepticons especially, their disfuctionality as a group despite actually seeming slightly more powerful than the Autobots was always wonderfully entertaining in the show, are treated as mindless drones who never utter a word. The Autobots are affable and naive but basically all the same character. It's a stinker guys, sorry.

  • March 16, 2007, 3:10 a.m. CST

    actually ...

    by HEADGEEK

    I haven't done a set visit in the last two years - fyi.

  • March 16, 2007, 3:35 a.m. CST

    Industrykiller = Dead on!

    by Joe Huber

    You hit home much of what I dread about this film. Let me first state that I like some Michael Bay movies, Bad Boys, The Rock, Armageddon, hell even..........gasp Pearl Harbor. I have them all on dvd. One area where they all suffer is in repeat viewings. Mostly, they are just one-time viewing maybe a couple at best. Popcorn movies at best, not the one's that you will want to watch until you wear out your dvd player (trust me I've worn out a handful of dvd players by watching too many movies). They don't rate repeated watchings like classic movies like JAWS, Forrest Gump, Spiderman, Spiderman 2, Batman or any other movie you might want to watch a ton of times. Mostly, his movies are for the time-period when they were released. They don't hold up over time. The shaky camera-work is annoying at best. The characters are so shallow that it stands out in repeated viewings, even with the best of actors. Everything has to be fast and shaky. Maybe it's because Bay's style has to be that way to cover up for a lack of substance. Let's face it, all Bay's movies benefit from having big name stars. Bad Boys capitalized on Will Smith & Martin Lawrence who were hot at that time, The Rock had Sean Connery, Nicholas Cage & Ed Harris, Armageddon had Bruce Willis, Ben Affleck (wonder if he does the duck impersonations from the commercial, Afflack! get it? oh well) even Pearl Harbor had Ben and Josh Hartnett along with Cuba Gooding Jr and a bunch of other big name supporting characters, despite all that and a HUGE budget it got exposed by trying too hard to be the next Titanic (the love story from hell unlike Titanic Pearl Harbor's love story didn't enhance the real-life events but distracted from the realism). I keep hearing about Transformers being big F'ing robots. Anyone who says that doesn't have a clue what Transformers was really about to the fanbase. The characters drew us in and made us CARE. If not for the voice actors going overboard and giving the characters depth Transformers wouldn't be nearly as memorable and beloved as it is. Sure I loved the toys. I still collect, I even have a bunch of the old comics, but it was the 80's cartoon and the fleshing out of the characters that made me care. That's why when a lot of the Transformers were killed in the movie (the original and only good movie) kids were devastated by the loss, especially with Optimus Prime. I just can't see Bay's version making us care as much as that cartoon did. It's all about explosions and big F'ing robots & the US military and humans, the Transformers themselves are almost an afterthought. It might as well be Independence Day 2 except instead of aliens it will be robots, everything else from the military right down to action scenes will be shallow and not worth repeated viewings. I'm a big movie fan. I want more than anything to have a SUCCESSFUL Transformers movie because I love those characters that much, but what I have seen up til now makes me ashamed to be a Transformers fan. First Bay & Spielberg say they get it about the Transformers and are going to be true to the history, then they turn around and show that they completely don't get it. The transformers can't be big and blocky because that's not cool (like flames on a truck are cool????), Just with Prime alone they show they don't get it. Flames were Rodimus and Hot Rod NOT Optimus Prime. Forget Prime for now, the Predator looking Megatron is beyond pathetic and what is up with the Insecticon looking Starscream? He surely makes you want to scream because that design is HORRIBLE!!!! I get that the human characters are supposed to draw us in and help us relate to alien robots (oh yeah another point, since they are aliens why in the hell does Prime need lips????) Bay said he wasn't going to make change for change's sake but he has done exactly that. This summer my theater money will be going to Spiderman 3 (this is how you do justice to established characters Bay!!!) Fantastic Four 2, hell even Die Hard 4 : Bruce Willis is old! I don't even want to mention how horrible The Island was or the crappy shaky-camerawork of Bad Boys 2. The Island was so bad it makes Pearl Harbor look as good as Titanic was at the box office. I tried watching that movie several times and either fell asleep each time or got so bored I had to turn on something more interesting and substantial or watch paint dry which was more entertaining than Bay's stupid future flick. The Island should have been called Bay's Catwoman. Ok enough bashing of Bay, for now. I'm sure Transformers will make some money. There will be die-hard fans who will see it despite not liking the god-awful designs and bad story they all heard about, even some mainstream fans might come back and think "damn they are making a live-action Transformers movie" (ok CGI or whatever it is but it's not animation). People will see it out of curiosity. It will be more like Superman Returns than Catwoman. It might do well enough to earn back what it costs and with overseas theatrical release and huge dvd rentals/buys it might even be a profitable picture, what it will not be is the die-hard Transformer's dream movie, the movie we all waited over 20 years for.............Like another regular poster on here, all I have to say is : DAMN YOU MICHAEL BAY!

  • March 16, 2007, 6:06 a.m. CST

    I see the wank transformer fans are out again..

    by bongo123

    man you guys are hilarious bitching about everything with your damn you michael bay crap. You all need to fucking wise up and get a life and to those that arnt stuck in there moms basement playing with there g1 models, you should be fucking ashamed at being an adult and getting so wound up over a fucking movie and a director. You pissheads will go see it opening weekend and if i hear any of you fuckwits near me bitching about this and that, i swear to fuck im gonna bury your fucking nerd ass into the seat and then throw you out and continue to enjoy what is essentially a fucking nobrainer movie about giant robots beating the shit outa each other... what the fuck do you want? gladiator set on cybertron!?? bastard kids! anyways, rant over... sounds cool as fuck to me.

  • March 16, 2007, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Just stuck the original movie on...

    by bongo123

    And yip... completely fucking pants, loved it as a kid, fav movie with its 80's cock rock soundtrack.... but now, fuck me its a piece of shite, same with the series, as a kid i had em all on tape cause as a kid they were fantastic, played constantly with the toys, even though my mum bought me 6 autobots and fucking megatron!!! my whole pointless point here is, were all adults now and this rosy glasses view of the originals is just that, rosy. The character models were laughably boxey, the storys were the usual shite found on any number of cartoon shows and this depth of characters bollocks someone wrote about obviously wears a tinfoil fucking hat cause hes reading waaay to much into a fucking 80's cartoon to be healthy. Transformers was a kids show for when we were kids, were adults now, we shouldnt have these fanatical fucking cravings for nothing to change and that the originals were fucking sent by god himself. This is a pure popcorn movie, sure we all hope/wish its gonna rule the mind as well as the eyes, but if doesnt and all it turns out to be is a typical summer sfx show... read my lips slowly now you taliban nerds "BIG FUCKING DEAL" and for the love of god someone please shoot each and everyone of you fuckers thats says damn you michael bay! the cunt makes better movies than you, has a bigger house and probably a huge cock... your nothing but some hypocrite twat that come summer will hand over your $$ to go see his movie and he'll be laughing at your pansy ass all the way to the bank muttering "Damn me michael bay, another hit movie and another coupla million bucks.... i love the nerds!"

  • March 16, 2007, 6:34 a.m. CST

    ok now my rant is over

    by bongo123

    seriously no more rants, im away to get stoned and watch transformers the movie in my optimus pj's

  • March 16, 2007, 6:36 a.m. CST

    oh wait i forgot, the movie blows

    by bongo123

    and my optimus pj's dont fit... but at least i can sit here get stoned and think about the huge knob on ole michael....

  • March 16, 2007, 8:12 a.m. CST

    Years ago I saw the poster for ROBOTJOX

    by Mace Tofu

    in the theater marquee while at the mall FUCK YES! I think I was the only person there as this opened with no print ads or TV and it was only seeing the poster that I knew it was out. Later that night I walked out going FUCK NO... 10 Minutes of GOOD robot action just didn't do it for me and has left me wanting some more GIANT ROBOT LIVE-ACTION STYLE (not Man-In -Suit PR TV stuff). Bay's TRANSFORMERS only has to beat ROBOTJOX to be the best LIVE-ACTION "GIANT" ROBOT MOVIE ever. Too bad David Allen never got his big break. When the fuck is the PRIMEVALS (Raiders of the Stone Ring) ever coming out? Someone in Hollywood should step up with some $$$ and help finish it for him. Who has the film now?

  • March 16, 2007, 10:10 a.m. CST

    Dude, I'm just gonna watch Ultraman and be happy

    by Doctor_Sin

    A fucking giant armored alien, who runs on a chest battery cell and inhabits the body of a dead Japanese pilot, battling giant rubber suited lumbering 'monsters' amongst a cardboard cityscape is more satisfying than this Shitformers mess.

  • March 16, 2007, 10:52 a.m. CST

    BSB

    by wanna_bannana

    please stop.... how deep your words hurt,my emotional anguish is terrible beyond all imagination.<p>Who would have thought it was possible? That my life would be shattered in one day,my reputation tarnished,all by the hands of an internet nerd who wants to be heard so badly that he leaves steaming troll turds allover the TB.<p>My life will never be the same. Oh BSB you amuse me, i truly love your banter, you are one of the only people i can fully rely on to give me entertainment in here...aside from wonka of course who can always bring a smile to my face.<p>~hugs~ thanks...you big beautiful man you. xxoo

  • March 16, 2007, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Why We're Moaning

    by MightyOs

    I grew up with Transformers. I remember getting Jazz, one of the last Transformers to be made out of metal! The shift to plastic annoyed many a fanboy so what kind of reception would turning him from a Porsche 911 ot some Yank piece of crap get!? Is this Bay just saying "big robots trashing building and troops in America.... betta lose the 911 reference!" You guys can try and suck Bay's cock all day long by saying that the old character designs wouldn't work. Agreed about Megatron and Soundwave, etc. But there is NO point in changing Bumblebee and Jazz. Flames on Optimus? No big deal but what does that add? It seems to the people who care that Bay is just screwing with their history because he can. Or was it that the studio coudln't get a Porsche and VW license? 2 great Euro cars are now tin pieces of shit. Big time American flag waving. I'm looking forward to the film. Just don't agree with some of the changes. :)

  • March 16, 2007, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Apologies on Tb's should be like these editing features

    by S-Mart shopper

    NONEXISTENT!!! Unless of course you're being sincere and if you're not then you suck 'cause that's just mean.<p>You know what, I shouldn't have brought it up, sorry.<p>TINO!TINO!TINO! Michael Bay for Secretary of Defense!

  • March 16, 2007, 12:16 p.m. CST

    BSB

    by wanna_bannana

    Do not blame Gaius for inciting this bullshit,because if you scroll up i do believe the only reason i made a snipping remark was because you had to be an ass and take a potshot at me out of the blue.<p>So do not talk about taking it in stride like you did me some monumental favor when it was you being a jackass in the first place. I hope you did not take my above post seriously,i was not begging for you to stop,i could give a shit less about you being a troll.<p>your words dont sting,they do not bother me, they do not offend...they are thoughtless,mindless and boring. You can say whatever you want about me and i promise you i will never lose any sleep. =)<p>I do not dislike you,i do not like you,you mean nothing to me,as i am sure i do not to you.<p> Just ignore me... trust me when i say i will do the same.

  • March 16, 2007, 12:33 p.m. CST

    yack

    by wanna_bannana

    depends on if you are going to be in those pretty pink panties of yours. ;)

  • March 16, 2007, 12:45 p.m. CST

    HA!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    So, BSB is gonna try and blame me for his own assholishness? Yeah. Shouldn't he be posting a bunch of Indy 4 titles or something?<P>What a dick.

  • March 16, 2007, 12:51 p.m. CST

    AOTC had better "pitching woo" dialogue than this TB

    by Doctor_Sin

    Nobody hurt themselves, now.<p>Yack, you feel better?

  • March 16, 2007, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Gladiator on Cybertron sounds like Shakespeare

    by superninja

    compared to what we're getting. Good call, bongo123!

  • March 16, 2007, 12:58 p.m. CST

    I agree the Transformers movie is not utterly

    by superninja

    fantastic by any means unless you are already attached to the characters. However, compared to most anime and particularly anime of that period, it's freakin' Oscar-worthy. For me, I could mostly care less after the events of Autobot City and then Megatron getting jettisoned to become Galvatron. The rest is pretty cornball after that. But the whole Autobot City part is rad and you know it, particularly Prime and Meg's final fight.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:10 p.m. CST

    That's fine with me, Yack. I'd love nothing more

    by superninja

    than for this film to die a horrible death. Bay can make a Thundercats movie, though.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:15 p.m. CST

    And James Cameron can make an Inuyasha movie.

    by superninja

    Ha ha.

  • March 16, 2007, 1:16 p.m. CST

    "You know, like Titanic, but set in feudal

    by superninja

    Japan?" Actually DiCaprio kind of looks like Inuyasha minus the giant pointy ears.

  • March 16, 2007, 2:33 p.m. CST

    BSB, I am with you on the prequels.

    by superninja

    They are unneccesary considering the story in my head is much better. :D

  • March 16, 2007, 2:57 p.m. CST

    The original movie....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Why do people reference the original movie and cartoon as if that somehow justifies the new movie? 99% of the bullshit we all thought was great when we were kids is utterly unwatchable now. You'd have to hold a gun to my head to make me watch an episode of the Dukes of Hazzard now.<p> On the original TF movie specifically, it had great animation for its time. I have to agree that after the events at Autobot city it's mostly forgettable, but Starscream getting disintegrated and Unicron transforming are pretty fucking great in their own rights too.<p> And I have to ask, where in hell did the term "its fucking pants" come from? I know what it means, but what does it fucking mean?!?!?

  • March 16, 2007, 4:20 p.m. CST

    yack

    by wanna_bannana

    you can wear my pink panties anytime you wish. I might be spending a couple weeks in sunnyvale california during the summer, maybe we could meet up for lunch,dinner,maybe we could even go see TF together...that would be a blast. Then i can see first hand that you might actually enjoy the movie =P

  • March 16, 2007, 5:16 p.m. CST

    OMFG....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Stop with this love connection bullshit already, you man jamming butt pirates.<p> Not that there's anything wrong with man jamming butt pirates mind you, just stop teasing us all with your sexy talk about pink panties and such. ;)

  • March 16, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Oh!

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Wanna's a girl? <p> Sorry, let me amend with - stop with this love connection bullshit already, you sex crazed heteros you.

  • March 16, 2007, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Harry Knowles presents: "Ain't It Love Connection"

    by Doctor_Sin

    LIVE at the Alamo Drafthouse downtown. How do you get in? Deliciously simple, geeks! Email your name, your favorite color, and your most embarrassing date story to alamoloveconnection@aicn.knowlesnet.<p> There will only be 126 seats available, on a first-come-first-served basis.<p> I will have prizes to hand out (possibly a pressie bag from Frederick's of Hollywood) and some naughty gifts for any lucky winners who hook up!<p>I will be bringing my pristine 35mm print of "Love Story," the highlight of the evening!

  • March 16, 2007, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Stand back?

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Are you crazy? I'm jumping right in front of the stampede then.<p> Japanese, frisky? Can I join in in the putting pink panties on my head talk?

  • March 16, 2007, 6:15 p.m. CST

    What fuckin rating is this movie getting?

    by Lamerz

    Didn't I hear something where one of the stars said something about "R"? I thought, "WFT??? An R for Transformers?"

  • March 16, 2007, 6:59 p.m. CST

    How do you know she's hot and Japanese

    by superninja

    and not just Harry flirting with you?

  • March 16, 2007, 9:08 p.m. CST

    yeah ur right the autobot city fight...

    by bongo123

    was cool in the movie and when galvatronnisorwhateveryoucallim transformed was pretty fucking cool as well. Still doesnt change the fact that hanging onto things we loved as a kid and expecting them to entertain and wow in the same way as adults is pretty fucking lame and childish. I mean if i wasnt watching transformers i was watching dungeons and dragons... you ever tried to watch that show lately? fuck me its dated so bad it completely fucking ruined the memory of it for me. Same with transformers, its dated, the characters have dated, the design has dated, the feel has dated and what it needed was Michael Damn You Fucking Bay to inject some fucking crack into its veins and make it cool, im not looking a heart felt story or some oscar worthy script, cause that would be silly its robots after all... what i want is to be entertained by 20ft fucking robots kicking seven shades of shit outa each other while taking out as much collateral damage as humanley possible for a pg-13 film, i want explosions, i want carnage and i want it all in hi def on a 40ft screen in under 2hrs, i want to leave what little brain i didnt smokekill at the door and sit there with my popcorn and be entertained... and for all michael bays faults, i think hes gonna deliver exactly what i want from this film. The rest of you can all go an fuck off.

  • March 16, 2007, 9:31 p.m. CST

    bongo123 - I think that's what everyone wants

    by just pillow talk

    at the very least, but as has been mentioned before, if the script hasn't been changed dramatically...there will not be many action scenes like you wish. If you want explosions and collateral damage...go see John McClane. That movie may not end up being classic Die Hard material (hope to God I'm wrong), but I think it will have more action in it than Transformers will. We shall see...

  • March 16, 2007, 11:29 p.m. CST

    bongo123, Michael Bay is giving you a cup of pee

    by Doctor_Sin

    May want to go ahead and pour it on your Transformers collection, in expectation of the eventual toy release - "Transformers: Chihuahua Pee Playset."

  • March 16, 2007, 11:36 p.m. CST

    Actually, the old t.v. show just isn't as bad

    by superninja

    as you claim it to be. Especially the first few episodes. Sure, there is some really cheezy stuff in there, but there are with any show that goes for that many seasons. I know having watched it again recently. The main concept of their planet decimated by war and needing additional resources bringing them to Earth to fight a guerilla war here is still a fantastic sci-fi story idea. Not to mention the opposing worldviews of the two main characters and the distinct characterization for each of the robots.

  • March 16, 2007, 11:48 p.m. CST

    I just think it's wonderful that people hold comic

    by superninja

    book stories and cartoons to different standards than they would, say, their crappy favorite prime-time show. A well crafted concept is a well crafted concept. Good characters are good characters. Good stories are good stories. Even if they are written so children can access them, they are still universal themes just like myths.

  • March 16, 2007, 11:51 p.m. CST

    And Transformers was actually about something

    by superninja

    as opposed to most else of what is out there for consumption.

  • March 17, 2007, 12:05 a.m. CST

    Michael Bay, you magnificent bastard!

    by thebearovingian

    MMVII!

  • March 17, 2007, 6:47 a.m. CST

    I still watch TF: The Movie from time to time...

    by Optimus Murphy

    It's still pretty damn good. Megatron dropping fire on a wounded Iron Hide's head from his arm cannon is such a great show of badguyism. The whole attack on Autobot City is great from start to finish. Prime's death is still kind of sad. Decepticon politics aboard Astro-train still makes me laugh. "Nobody calls Soundwave uncrusimatic!!!" The death of Starscream was nice. Unicron ripping apart Cybertron's moons was insane. Kup and Hotrod vs. the Sharkticons, and then the Dinobots show up to save their asses, good shit. Same with the final battle, where Unicron is straddling an entire fucking planet. There isn't enough coke in the world to get Bay to direct something with that kind of action.

  • March 17, 2007, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Here's what abffles me:

    by firstislast

    how you can all get so uptight about a fucking action movie. Get a life, cunts.

  • March 17, 2007, 9:31 a.m. CST

    heres what baffles me

    by wanna_bannana

    That yack is still fighting this movie till the end,want me to call you a "waaahmbulance"? =P<p>I have been saying from the start that this movie will probably be a decent flick,blockbusters are entertainment at best, they are meant to leave the movie goer in awe ~jurassic park~ or by the end have children running up the isles crying "ET....dont doh home".<p>They are not meant to be taken so seriously,especially when dealing with the subject matter of aliens,dinasaurs,and robots.<p> I do completely see where yack and some others are coming from though,i grew up with the original series and absoloutly adore it,i want to see it be done justice, but i am still willing to give it a chance.<p>And yack i am sure i could make a sidetrip to new york just to see the movie with you and hang out for a few days.<p>Makiko

  • March 17, 2007, 11:34 a.m. CST

    You know what

    by nonsensical

    Firstislast can go fuckimself.... <p> Hey Yack and Wanna, you set a time and I'll see about making that trip. Though, how about you plan to head to San Diego Comic-con and we all hang out there? I have to be there for work, providing I get that damn animation done, so I will be there. <P> As for what is going on here in the TB, well one of the things brought up is the issue with continuity/cannon for the TF mythos. I'd like to point out that both the Marvel comics and the cartoon had the same characters in the same positions (for the most part) in the stories. <p> Hasbro attempted to unify the continuity a few years back before Armada happened and after the aquisition of Takara. Basically G1 continuity in the cartoon includes the Japanese series all the way through Zone and also recognizes Beast Wars as cannon in the G1 animated stories. Both Takara and Hasbro have attmepted (half assedly) to unify continuity with the TF: Universe and Robot Masters lines that are supposed to be derived from stories that take place in the G1 cartoon/comic continuities. <p> Regardless of what came before the characters had something that was easily grasped in their characterizations that showed compassionate Autobots who worked with humans to try and defeat the power hungry Decepticons. The film just doesn't have this. <p> As for the comparison between changes in TF and Spidey for film. The problem with the argument here isn't that Spidey was given organic web shooters or that MJ was his girl instead of Gwen, the basics for Spidey's origin were there, the costume looks the same (except for the silver webbing) and you can look at it and automatically know that this is Spiderman who knows as a result of his Uncle's death that "with great power comes great responsibility" and in this respect the core fo the story and character remains the same. Transformers doesn't have any of that in the film "adaptation". <p> The origin of the Transformers where the Autobots and Decepticons crashed on earth 4 million of years ago only to be reawakened with the eruption of a volcano is not there. The "energon cube" has taken the place of the Matrix of Leadership simply because another movie that has nothing to do with Transformers used that word (Matrix) in the title and story of the film. What's worse is (and this is a spoiler) that in this film two generals fundamentally opposed in their beliefs are now brothers in order to make them "more interesting as characters". What if it was leaked before the first Spiderman that Harry Osborne was not Peter's best friend but instead was his brother? Better yet, what if Raimi had made Norman Osborne Spidey's brother simply because he felt it would create a better dynamic between the protagonist and antagonist. It's an idea that is beyond cliché. <p> You see, Bay and his writers have failed to understand that these Transformers characters are interesting on their own because of their core G1 incarnations. Megatron was characterized as a ruthless dictator bent on universal conquest because he believes that his Decepticons are the superior race of Cybertronian. While the other leader was Optimus Prime created in response to a need to fight for those who can not fight for themselves. <p> Essentially, Megatron is the Cybertronian equivalent of Hitler, while Prime is basically the "average joe" who rises up (is rebuilt) to lead an army of other average citizens against the tyranny facing the innocents of Cybertron caught in the war. <p> Basically, fans of the Transformers that are angry are more angry at the fact that Bay and his team don't see this and they feel that this film departs to far from the principle source of the Transformers to even bare the name. While those that are fine with this departure are either fans of the idea that robots can transform into stuff and they fight, or they are unaware of the story that should have served as a foundation for this film which result in the same failed understanding that Bay and company suffer from. <p> For them and I suppose Bay, ignorance is bliss. <p> Ugh... I'm still so freakin' sick and this TB isn't helping.

  • March 17, 2007, 11:39 a.m. CST

    MEGS & PRIME AS BROS. = TINO!

    by nonsensical

    TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! TINO! Yeah, I did it... so what?

  • March 17, 2007, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Tyrese shines here...

    by shitstorm23

    I hope Harry is referring to his head, because nothing that worthless piece of shit does in a movie will ever "shine". Seriously, that one little phrase made laugh so hard I pissed myself. I could careless about the movie or the original cartoon, but anything with Tyrese is fucking terrible. This movie will pretty much suck though, the action will probably be pretty good, but the acting/dialogue will make those of us with a brain get a headache. It should still do decent at the box office though just like ghost rider.

  • March 18, 2007, 1:26 a.m. CST

    You know what? The changes to Spider-Man weakened

    by superninja

    that story, too. That whole thing with him running out of his webs as a metaphor for impotence still irritates me. Spider-Man as a Viagra commercial - cute. P <p> They should've made Gwen the love interest, cacked her in 2 and had MJ in the background just like the comics. Her introduction in the comics is completely adorable and just puts a smile on your face when the finally meet. It was stupid to change all of it. Look at how they defanged Harry and the whole Goblin legacy. </p> <p> Transformers didn't need to be adjusted. The story was epic and perfect as it was with the G1 ORIGIN STORY. The only thing it could've used is a visual hand up and perhaps a greater sense of urgency and danger than the t.v. show had simply due to the time constraints of a feature film. Instead we have Gremlins 2 with robots.

  • March 18, 2007, 1:35 a.m. CST

    nonsensical, that is true. Transformers is loaded

    by superninja

    to the gills with topical themes. Scarcity of resources and their connections to war, imperialism, opposing worldviews, class warfare and slavery, guerilla warfare. But who needs that? Just two brothers and the fate of the universe hinging on a pair of glasses locating a MacGuffin is all this world needs.

  • March 18, 2007, 1:35 a.m. CST

    Holy shit!

    by nonsensical

    Are superninja and I in agreement? I think I agree with just about everything that his last post said. Wow.

  • March 18, 2007, 1:37 a.m. CST

    Strike that...

    by nonsensical

    make it both posts. I thought we were at odds... am I just not thinking clearly from the illness that has been kicking my ass?

  • March 18, 2007, 1:38 a.m. CST

    I'm sorry you're sick, but we've been in agreement

    by superninja

    on TF the entire time so you are perhaps hallucinating.

  • March 18, 2007, 1:53 a.m. CST

    YES!

    by nonsensical

    I knew I was going to hit blind hallucinations... <p> That totally explains the doggy on my bed. <p> Point of fact, I don't own an animal of any kind... as least I didn't last time I checked.

  • March 18, 2007, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Oh, come on, if you think AICN talkbacks are mad...

    by JackPumpkinhead

    ...then you haven't seen IMDB. Something like this organism for example: http://imdb.com/user/ur5767469/boards/profile/ AICN talkbacks, even ones as furious as each one about Transformers (or Batman, or Superman, or... er, anything) are like buddhist monasteries compared to those places.

  • March 18, 2007, 2:41 p.m. CST

    I'll give this movie a chance

    by S-Mart shopper

    if it's rated R and Megan Fox is topless!

  • March 18, 2007, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Damns yous Bay!

    by S-Mart shopper

    TINO,MINO,BINO,OPINO!!

  • March 18, 2007, 2:53 p.m. CST

    There better be at least a blooper reel at the end

    by S-Mart shopper

    with the Transformers killing cast and crew members because of missed marks and diva-like tempers.

  • March 18, 2007, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Lucas could've done TF

    by S-Mart shopper

    the dialogue from the cartoon matches perfectly with the dialogue that Lucas writes.

  • March 18, 2007, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Time to move this TB up a notch

    by S-Mart shopper

    BAM!

  • March 18, 2007, 9:47 p.m. CST

    messi, don't fall for it.

    by superninja

    That "it's great for a cartoon", thing. It's better than an episode of Friends or anything else that passes for entertainment these days.

  • March 18, 2007, 11:30 p.m. CST

    My mistake, I'm sure Bay will do it justice then.

    by S-Mart shopper

    Wait, no he won't.

  • March 18, 2007, 11:46 p.m. CST

    I'm not sure you would know the

    by superninja

    difference.

  • March 19, 2007, 12:49 a.m. CST

    superninja, your kung fu is great!

    by S-Mart shopper

    you have masterfully sensed my weakness in spotting the difference in what could be a great&fun movie based on a cool cartoon from the 80's and a Baysplotation crap fest.<p>Bayformers could be a great "robots blowing shit up" movie but I doubt it will be THE Transformers that many hope it to be.<p>Oh and messi are you mad that I was poking fun at the cartoon or Lucas, 'cause I'm a fan of both. Being a fan still allows me to be critical of that which I take interest in.<p>I was ribbing, you were just being a jerk.

  • March 19, 2007, 1:09 a.m. CST

    And lets not forget the origin of Optimus Prime

    by Doc_Strange

    What a missed opportunity that was. If I remember from the cartoon, Optimus started out as a simple labor robot called Orion Packs, diligently working along with his friends in peace until Megatron, bent on conquest arrived and destroyed basically everything and mortally wounding Orion and his buddies. I believe somehow he was brought to Alpha Trion who was a robot who built defense machines to battle threats and thus creates Optimus Prime to combat the growing threat. I think the visuals that showed the beginning of the Autobot/Decepticon war could have been among the most glorious visuals we had seen, but they pissed all that away by making Prime and Megatron bros in what is probably some throwaway line? WHAT THE FUCK!!!

  • March 19, 2007, 5:09 a.m. CST

    Transformer Talibanfans

    by bongo123

    are fun to see all wound up over a fucking 80's cartoon...

  • March 19, 2007, 6:40 a.m. CST

    I'm not wound up about a

    by Lost Prophet

    "fucking 80's cartoon". I'm wound up over shitty mediocre filmaking being passed off as quality- Like Doctor SIn said up there.

  • March 19, 2007, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Don't me joyless

    by BrandonGK

    Or a hater just because my first reaction to being pissed on isn't to open my mouth wide and ask for seconds. This movie's going such the chrome of a trailer hitch. It has a shitty script. It has shitty character designs. It has shitty actors. And finally a director known for his crimes against art and storytelling. I liked the cartoon, but I see it for what it is a thirty minute cartoon comercial. The fact that this sure to wretched pile of shit is based of a favorite childhood memory is an added slap in the face.

  • March 19, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Classic. Trying to shut people

    by superninja

    up by erecting straw men arguements. Have we tried to decapitate you yet? Nooooo......

  • March 19, 2007, 8:25 p.m. CST

    I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH MICHAEL BAY,

    by wackmeupb4ugogo

    He saz, "MCMXLLLL, or whatever GOTTA EAT. But HE'S THE SUK!"

  • March 19, 2007, 8:28 p.m. CST

    MCMX, WHATEVER! U RULE!

    by wackmeupb4ugogo

    BRING IN THE MILK! BRING IN THE MILK! BRING IN THE MILK!

  • March 20, 2007, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Sound Wave

    by pjdon

    Off the subject but i sent this to Harry and he didn't put it up. Shia LaBeouf said in an interview with UK mag Total Film that they have actually built a mobile phone that can change into a robot for Transformers and that it is called Sound Wave. It's on pg53, check it out. A lot of you will probably complain that his is too hip or contempary or something but i'm sure a cassette recorder was just as 'hip' in the 80's. This seems like a logical disguise for a spy robot and i personally can't wait to see an actual mobile transform, no cgi or nothing.

  • March 20, 2007, 10:24 p.m. CST

    What about "Robot Jox" ??????

    by LeeLuDallasMultiPass

    ...that movie owns your ass!

  • March 21, 2007, 2:34 a.m. CST

    It's all about first impressions.

    by GibsonUSA Returns

    People can justify how this movie will rock with 100,000 word essays all they want, but the fact of the matter is that everyone I know who takes a first glance at this movie....with it's flaming Optimus and monster Megatron....automatically have a kneejerk reaction that it will absolutely suck. Visually, I think this movie has drifted WAAAAAAAAY too far from the source material, and everyday grew-up-with-TF Joe-Schmoo will look at these designs and Bumblebee as a Camaro and go WTF?????? They won't read 100,000 word justifications for the "improved" designs, they will just give a funny look and walk away.

  • March 21, 2007, 4:02 a.m. CST

    HELLO EVRYBODY

    by Phategod1

    Lets see Ganys back one band wagon, and everyone hates this crap. As Do I hey Yack I got that 50 inch Samsung.

  • March 22, 2007, 6:10 p.m. CST

    There's nothing to like. They certainly don't

    by superninja

    look iconic, just overdesigned they kind of fade into the background compared to the original designs.

  • March 22, 2007, 6:15 p.m. CST

    Who cares about mini transformers?

    by superninja

    The movie is supposed to be about giant robots. Getting into micro transformers - even the cassettes are the size of a human. The Soundwave design sounds like VIDEOMAN from Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends. That's what immediately came to mind when I read the script. <p> http://www.planetkc.com/rbuzan/videoman01.jpg</p>

  • March 23, 2007, 1:59 a.m. CST

    DAMN YOU MICHAEL BAY DENIS!!

    by polyh3dron

    Remember that one?? heheh

  • March 23, 2007, 5:27 a.m. CST

    My First Post Ever

    by the big Poo

    Holy fuckin hell. You guys are hilarious! My god, the Transformers? I clicked on the story because I saw the trailer a while back and was pleasantly surprised, so I was curious as to what Harry thought after seeing 20-25 minutes of footage. Then I scrolled down.....I just wanna say thanks, guys. I haven't laughed that hard in a while. It was just...wow. Bongo123..you the man, though. And Industrykiller...oh industrykiller..when you wrote "I cannot fathom what kind of idiot over the age of 15 would enjoy this" immediately after having just wrote 4 paragraphs explaining in detail about how Bay is destroying the incredible characterization of these FUCKING CARTOON CHARACTERS who are FUCKING ROBOTS THAT TURN INTO FUCKING CARS,TRUCKS, HELICOPTERS,ETC.....kudos to you, my friend. And kudos to the fucking dorks that enthusiastically agreed with you. But you guys wanna know the funniest thing about all of this is? No...well I'm gonna tell ya anyway. The funniest thing is...none of us have seen it, all of us WILL see it, and yet...here we are. Wow.

  • March 23, 2007, 8:12 a.m. CST

    MICHAEL BAY DENIS

    by Lost Prophet

    never forgive

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