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What Did..Happen To
Those Buffiverse TV-Movies??
I am – Hercules!!
This Sunday’s Los Angeles Times has an interesting piece by Kate Aurthur on Joss Whedon, in anticipation of the March 14 launch of Whedon’s “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” “season eight” comic. We offer some excerpts.
Whedon on what happened with the post-“Angel” Buffiverse TV-movies the fans were so craving:
… "It was a pipe dream ultimately, because I think the studio thought they could do this for no money — that everybody would show up because we're all buddies," Whedon said. "But I don't think they noticed that everybody seems to have careers. It was an unrealistic business model.” …
On what happened with the “Wonder Woman” feature he wrote and intended to direct:
… "I cannot tell you what they wanted. Because they never told me what they wanted. When I asked them, 'Well, what is it that you want?' They said, 'We cannot tell you.'” …
On “Goners,” the next movie he intends to write and direct for Universal:
… "a ghastly tale of female empowerment — something new for me!" …
On a post-“Firefly” return to television:
… “because of the new media, because of DVDs, because of the Internet, there are so many new avenues that basically I feel like I can go back to TV when I have the power to set up a paradigm wherein I know I can complete a story." …
Read all of the Times’ interview with Whedon here.
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Readers Talkback
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Personally I'd rather see Joss try something different than dragging out Buffy forever. Don't ge tme wrong I'm a huuuuge Buffy fan, but I'd hate to see it dragged out over a couple of tv movies just for the sake of it. Both Buffy and Angel ended well, so I don't see the point in trying to crowbar the characters back into TV for the sake of a couple of hours.
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Whedon is cool and all, and I admire his work. He does great stuff, However, I really am starting to get sick with his FEMALE EMPOWERMENT Vision in movies. It's becoming cliche and annoying. We saw female empowerment in Buffy, Angel, Serenity, almost Wonder Woman, and now Goners? Is that what it was about? I thought it was something much deeper than that. Can't this guy come up with something different that doesn't rip off his older work? But he is one of my favorite filmmakers no doubt. But if i hear about him doin Female empowerment ONE MORE TIME, I'm gonna Slap somebody. oh, and i like the idea of the Buffy Comics Season 8. But Buffy no more on television. She's done.
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Joss sayeth "But the fact of the matter is when you work with people you love, you want to work with them more. Same goes with characters." So why the hell not? At least he's honest about going back to the Buffy well (and the female empowerment thing). And he can joke about it. I would love to know what some of those things are that he can't talk about with the Wonder Woman fiasco. It is really a shame that he had to waste that time when he could have been producing other things for us to enjoy. But I can't wait for the comic. That's the kind of thing I'll be actually buying at the comic store and not waiting til the trade paperback or just downloading it.
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I thought Buffy and Angel were both well done..same with Firefly. I know there are a lot of haters out there but I think they hate his fans more then his work.
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Josh Whedon writes female empowerment stories because that's how he sees the world. His work is full of strong independent women who succeed despite their absent fathers and weak boyfriends. He's apparently writing the Lee Stearns story over and over again.
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...in the Wonder Woman costume ? Pass me the rope !!
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Thinking about Buffy seasons 2 and 3, and Angel seasons 3 and 4, I remember how fantastic this stuff could be. It's good to see that he hasn't become completely disenfranchised with the medium like he was a few years ago.
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We need a new Buffy series with Joss at the helm. How about Illyeria? Or Faith. Dushku isn't doing much these days. Or even Buffy: The new Class. There are lots of Slayers now, so center on a High School in Cleveland (the other Hellmouth) with a NEW slayer with Andrew as her watcher.
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Flick... DVD sales alone would make it work, the fan base is huge.
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But no Buffy shows at all. Yeah, that's fair.
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To quote Spike, "Let me rest in peace." It's over Johnny. For fracks sake, let it go.
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...until Angel is wrapped up! Damnit.
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Absolute shit. Ghastly.
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I'm a little glad there won't be any telemovies now. I'm happy to have 11.5 combined seasons of Buffy and Angel, two videogames, and a comic book 8th season. Of course I'd be even happier if Whedon and BKV decided to bring a live action Runaways series somehow.
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The female empowerment thing would be old stick if all the producers were doing it, but they're not. Joss Wheden is filling a niche that is under represented. Besides, Joss has lots of male heroes too, such as Angel and Mal, so I think your criticism of Joss is wrong in two ways. One there is not a glut of female empowerment stories and Two, that isn't all that Joss does. Fantasy is just a symbolic way of looking at reality. Women in our lives do have power, whether as a mother, or a school teacher or a dentist or senator from New York. Denying that is absurd. To me the damsel in distress is a much more boring cliche than the empowered female.
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"We don't want slap yourself on the back sarcasm. We want this cool World War II Wonder Woman script.... bye Josh."
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Man, I feel bad for this guy. He keeps on getting the shaft from studio heads. I know quality wise Serenity is pretty good and I have watched some old FireFly episodes. What he needs to do is make at least one or two commercial hits regardless it is something he wants to do then he could go and do what he wants.
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I would guess that the future of any sci-fi franchise getting new life breathed into it through the expanding media channels (internet, Direct to DVD, etc) that Whedon mentions in the article will depend on the success of the first ones out of the gate like the new BABYLON 5 LOST TALES. (Didn't they announce something for FARSCAPE too?) Even if you're just a causual fan of B5 and a big fan of BUFFY or another franchise, think about dropping the 15-20 bucks on the new B5 DVD, and think of it as an investment to show the corporate owners of your favorite franchise that these new methods of distribution are indeed profitable. <b> If it weren't for high DVD sales, FAMILY GUY would never have come back with first the Direct to DVD movie and then the new seasons on Fox. The same goes for FUTURAMA. So, there is hope for your favorite show, be it BUFFY, FARSCAPE, MANTIS, whatever. <b> (OK. Maybe not MANTIS...)
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There's clearly not enough of it in your reviews.
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And I say this as someone who's not a huge Whedon fan ("Firefly" aside): I don't see what's wrong with female empowerment being a recurring theme in Whedon's work. If you look at almost any filmmaker who writes their own stuff, themes begin to develop. Most of the time, people don't even notice or care; sometimes they even discuss it academically, or refer to it as "auteurism." But this isn't the first time I've heard people express discomfort over the fact that Whedon always writes strong female characters. It seems to be a big hang-up for a lot of people. I sort of want to say that not all of his female characters are strong, nor his male characters weak, just to get it out of the way (and I sort of just did), but the point is, should it matter even if they were? You might as well tell James Cameron to stop being an environmentalist. That doesn't make Whedon a good filmmaker, necessarily, nor does it mean that you have to like his stuff, but you can't fault the guy for having recurring themes in his work. If you were a writer-director, so would you. Also, while River is obviously a riff on his strong female type, I do hasten to add that that's not what 'Serenity' was "about," per se.
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I'm talking about studio heads of course. And I for one, am a bit thankful for that. He knows what he wants and where his talent lies and seems to not want to compromise on that - even if it could help him commerically. The downside to integrity - comics instead of TV and four years of development hell. Seems a hell of a way to treat a guy who has had influences on a great many of his peers. W
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...Cordy, Fred, Lilah, and even Darla all died.
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I have been watching the repeats of buffy. A show which which i initially enjoyed but over time I became irritated to the point where I just ended up not watching the show anymore. I was actually glad when it ended. once more with feeling. Was the high point and from then on the show plummeted. I loved the episode where nobody spoke and that reminded you how good the acting was or could be on that show. the on again/off again buffy angel angle drove me mad becuase Dave boreanz is an atrocious actor. Then there was the lets make buffy insane storyline(esp the end of the opening credits that mader her look loopy) and the awful storyline involving buffy and scooby gangs dreams and that point I thought i have had it with this show but then along came amber benson(why hasnt she gotten work). I watch bones very briefly for Emily Deschanel but every time dave Boreanz comes on. I just turn off the tv.
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whedon has said on countless occasions why the buffy movies never worked. i can not wait for season 8, though! Wednesday, bay-bay!
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But Whedon is one of those guys who has a (comparatively) small if fiercely loyal fanbase (and I'll admit, it's saying something for a TV producer to have a fanbase), but has yet to really hit one out of the park from an income-earning point of view. So really, it's somewhat remarkable that the studio heads keep giving him opportunities to do his quirky, intelligent, hard-to-market projects, but not that surprising that they don't want to put too many resources behind something like a Buffy-B-listers TV movie that probably wouldn't turn a profit.
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I have to be a little sympathetic with the Wonder Woman execs. Just because they don't know exactly what they want (they're not writers) doesn't mean they can't recognize what they don't want. A Wonder Woman movie is a hard enough sell anyway, and what they want is a big flashy special-effects/skimpy outfit show. The fact that Joss's work doesn't tend to shine unless he himself has total control over every aspect of the production is sort of a compliment and criticism at the same time: if all of his lines don't work unless the director and actors knew exactly what he was thinking when he wrote them, maybe it's not *their* fault when the script seems weak.
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I'm frankly tired of Whedon's Mommy and/or Daddy issues being played out constantly in his work. I actually love his work, but he needs to drop the bullshit agenda.<p> There is no glass ceiling, the only people who still look at women as less than equal are redneck assholes and the Geico Cavemen.
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March 3, 2007, 12:34 p.m. CST
Warners just didn't like Whedon's Wonder Woman script.
by Jim Jam Bongs
The Warner execs didn't know what they wanted from Wonder Woman. That's not an insult to them. They simply didn't know, so that's why they hired Whedon to pitch ideas to them, and write a script. The end result wasn't what they wanted, or thought would work on the big screen. But then a spec script for Wonder Woman caught their attention; they read it, liked it, bought it. That in a nutshell is what happened, folks. It's everyday business in Hollywood. Whedon wasn't disrespected by the studio -- he was paid for all his work.
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that why all the projects got canned .... he got lucky with buffy and angel very over rated stuff mind you.... he was a one trick pony and it showed...
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Hate to break this to you, since you were obviously unaware...but the Buffy Season 8 #1 got pushed back to 3/14. FYI for those unaware, Joss is doing the first 1-4 arc, and then sort of a stand-alone #5, Brian Vaughn is doing a Faith-centric arc with 6-9, and then Drew Goddard takes over for an arc. Probably 4 issues on Drew's arc too, but I don't think I've seen that confirmed.
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I don't get why it bothers you, then. What precise agenda do you think Whedon is pushing? Equality of the sexes? Maybe it's just a matter of representation. Because I'll be honest with you: I think that damsels in distress are tired bullshit. How many superhero movies have we seen where the caped crusader has to save a girlfriend from the clutches of death? I watched 'Smokin' Aces' the other week, and I thought it was hysterical that they had Common carry Alicia Keys down a flight of stairs and out into the street scooped up in his arms after he "rescued" her, even though you know they probably had to stop the scene every 20 feet because there's no way he could've carried her for that long and he looked like he was having a hard enough time of it as it is. And it's an image that pervades the industry. The fact that we accept this barrage of films where superpowered (or even regular, e.g. Common) guys are constantly performing physically improbable or impossible feats in order to help the women in their lives unquestioningly, yet grouse at all of Whedon's ass-kicking girls for being "unrealistic," suggests that maybe there's more of an imbalance in terms of representation than you think.
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March 3, 2007, 1:18 p.m. CST
Angel was a great example of female empowerment...
by Devil By The Deed
..when Josh kicked Charisma off the show for being preggers, he passed the "wear slutty skirts and heels" torch onto Amy Acker in Season 5.
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..one of those buzzwords that dumb people use to sound smart?
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The problem is not that Whedon pushes equality, just the opposite in fact, and that is what I dislike about his work. Whedon pushes the uber-female to the point of ridiculousness in the same way you pointed out Hollywood oftentimes pushes the uber-male. Equality doesn't come by balancing out the wrongs from the past, wrong is wrong period.<p> It's like this, when Married With Children hit the air the feminists were screaming that they dared to show the Mom and Daughter as ignorant fools, nevermind that the show was PERFECTLY balanced with an equal number of male ignorant fools.<p> I like my equality to actually be equal, cuz that's the definition and all...
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His other writers and directors (like in season 6) may sway too close to the "men are bad" stuff. However, Whedon's eps always had a joyous balance.
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what the FUCK???? color me pissed... and genuinely disappointed. hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come in the way of the book's scheduling. i'm up to my eyeballs in rage over the countless dc and marvel books that are delayed every month. it seems the only books that arrive on time are ones no one reads. upsetting comic tidbit: jonah hex only sold 17,000 copies in january and it's consistently top three in terms of quality. yet all star superman, which comes out every three or four months, or whenever the fuck morrison feels like it, sells 100,000 copies. (although, all start supes does deserve to sell a lot since it's brilliant, but still.) so i went a bit off topic, but my point is "shit, i gotta wait ANOTHER week for new buffy?"
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Last I heard it was pushed back due to printing issues. This is a big one for Dark Horse. The order is already 80,000+ for #1.
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What's the release schedule for the issues? Is it just the standard monthly format? It looks like they are going for mostly 4-issue arcs because that is about equal to a single one-hour episode. (Part 1 = Act I; Part 2 = Act II, etc.) At this rate, they would need about 88 issues to equal 22 episodes... if Whedon indeed wants to play this out as similar as possible to an actual TV series season. It would be cool if all parties involved (and there is enough demand) to publish it as a biweekly.
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So does that mean you call every movie where a man uses superpowers to rescue women "tired bullshit" (since you like your equality to be equal, cuz that's the definition and all...)? Because I sort of suspect that's not the case.
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If they want to retain the type of talent they have for the run, biweekly won't happen. All those writers actually have TV commitments. Compared to that, paycheck that comics writers get is probably chump change. But we can still dream, can't we?
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And I don't want to feel obligated to consider reading them just because I'm a diehard Buffy fan. But alas, I do. Wawawa....
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If you think that men were some how demeaned and the women are empowered to the point of ridiculousness, then you must have never actually watched show, since every character on the show was far from perfect and Buffy herself was constantly dealing with failure and self doubt. Same thing with Angel.
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joss be a strong woman and own up to it for once damn it.
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Back off a second and realize I'm talking about Whedon's body of work not strong females in general. You bet I like movies where SUPERmen rescue women, and where SUPERwomen rescue men as well (excluding Michelle "cliche" Rodriguez). When talking about Whedon's work specifically, however, there is definitely a strong leaning towards strong females versus weak males.<p> As cool as Angel and Spike are/were, both of them are weak in every way compared to Buffy. Wesley eventually became awesome, but his girlfriend turned god can kick his ass. Willow may be the most powerful person in the Buffyverse. Mal is a great strong male figure but he is outclassed by Zoe even if she does take orders from him, River can kill people with her eyes closed, Inara has Mal by the short and curlies, and Mal would be nothing without his girl mechanic, whose introduction completely emasculated the male mechanic (and yeah he deserved it, but still). All I'm saying is Whedon's strong female to male quotient is higher than most, and it's obnoxious sometimes.<p> I have no problem with strong females as a rule, I'm a stay at home Dad (student) whose wife works full time and is currently going through the application process to become a police officer. I also used to coach women's ice hockey for years, so no way are strong women an issue for me.
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I don't see what the big deal is. Warners wants to explore the possibility of turning Wonder Woman into a movie franchise. So they hire an acclaimed writer/producer (Whedon) to pitch them an idea. (After all, that's what they SHOULD be doing, right? Hiring writers to write.) Whedon pitched, wrote a screenplay, got paid, but the studio didn't like the result, and elected not to move forward. The end. The same deal apparently happened with JJ Abrams and Star Trek, except Paramount liked what Abrams presented to them, which is why they're moving forward with it.
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The big deal is that if Whedon admitted this, it would probably make other important people (producers, studio heads) in the industry question his abilities. It's not a great way to sell himself to say "Yeah, Warners paid me big bucks to develop Wonder Woman, but they didn't like what I presented them." This happens ALL the time, writers hired to write scripts that go nowwhere in the end. But both Wonder Woman and Whedon are high profile, so there was much more attention on this. This is why Whedon is cryptic in the interview -- he's covering his ass, and you can't really blame him for that. But the fact remains that Warner just didn't like his take on Wonder Woman. It's nothing personal; it's just business.
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THIS GUY IS Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo overrated!
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Whedon was signed to an exclusive development deal with Warners for Wonder Woman. But two guys (who are unproduced unknowns in this business) wrote their own Wonder Woman spec screenplay, and managed to get it read by the right people. Warners liked it so much that they bought the script outright, and then ended their arrangement with Whedon. That's impressive as hell. I look at this as a sign that there IS hope still for the unknown, aspiring screenwriter to break into the business. Most of the people who visit this site should be championing these guys. They have more in common with them than Whedon.
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I think the Buffy comic is a perfect way to continue the story. I could absolutely see her continuing on as a comics superhero for a long time. I have a question for actual hardcore comics fans. I know that the people lined up to write for the comic are a mix of people who wrote for the show and comic writers. Are the comic writers lined up people who are considered top-tier writers? I'm curious if this project is something that's drawing top talent from that industry.
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Yes, Brian K. Vaughn is pretty respected.
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Hey, I was a Buffy fan, but a little goes a long way, and this guy is pretty one-note. Branch out, my man.
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Absolutely. There was a smokescreen of "they just don't want another Wonder Woman script out there," but that was so transparent as to be laughable. Good for them, hope they caught a big break... BUT I gotta say, I just don't think anyone GIVES A FUCK about Wonder Woman.
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version: Wonder Whore.
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I also heard the rumours that SMG and Borantez {sp?} were feeling snubbed because they were the $tar$ and Mutant Enemy dared to focus episodes on peripheral characters. I have no sympathy. The story is all. Everyone has something that needs to be told. It's what makes a 'Verse....a 'Verse.`
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don't you understand? - Buffyu
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in your pie plate, Bingo!!
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My friends don't have a rock this big.
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run with scissors and take candy from some guy....I don't know his name.
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I don't speak "loser".
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Magic's all balderdash and chicanery. I'm afraid we don't don't know a bloody thing .....except seem to be British, don't I? -
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who don't get to feed? Living skeletons, mate. Like famine pictures from those dusty countries. Only not half as funny.
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We will bring you Bob Barker...... We will bring you the limp and beaten body of Bob Barker!!
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Joss likes heroes and he happens to like them as women...It's his muse and it's what gets his creative juices flowing. This is also the case for most magna/anime writers and artists.<p> If he didn't have the story centered around such a hero that happens to be a woman his work would not be so good. <p> Joss likes emotional hero's and you cant do that with a man hero.<p> Thats the way I see Joss's work not as female empowerment... though you can't avoid that when your lead hero is a woman can you? Thats the way most men will see it. Most Hero movies have male leads because writers and Directors tend to make movies about what they know and seeings as they are men they know men...Women hero's are simply different than male hero's in the way they conduct their business and most men cant see or know this but Joss does(so does Jim Cameron).<P> In any story about a Hero that Hero is always the strongest character that is why they are the Hero(except for an all powerful villain for a hero to overcome the odds by) so why would it surprise anyone that a lead woman hero would be stronger than all the men? After all she is the Hero and that is the definition of a Hero!<p>
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So I've been reading a lot about the good ol' us of A, embracing the extraordinarily precious ideology that's helped to shape and define it." <p> Willow: "Democracy?" <p> Anya: "Capitalism. A free market dependent on the profitable exchange of goods for currency. A system of symbiotic beauty apparently lost on these old people. Look at 'em; perusing the shelves, undressing the merchandise with their eyeballs. All ogle, no cash. It's not just annoying, it's un-American." <p> Giles: "Appalling. Almost as if they no longer think money can buy happiness." <p> Anya: "Totally un-American. Oh, and you know what else is un-American? French people."
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at a gallop until your legs buckled and your eyes rolled up. I've got muscles you've never even dreamed of. <p> I could squeeze you until you popped like warm champagne, and you'd beg me to hurt you just a little bit more.... <p> And you know why I don't? <p> Because it's wrong." <p> - Faith as Buffy: BtVS ("Who Are You?") ______________
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who, exactly? Boreanaz does Bones, but SMG is co-starring in second-rate movies... Brendan's chef sitcom got canceled... I have no idea what the others are doing...
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Would be Alison's sitcom that is doing quite well. James Masters {spike} always had a band and is touring, so is Lindsey [gay for Angel Lawyer] but I can't think of anyone who is high profile. Seth Green [Oz} is consistantly bringing the funny to me with re-runs of Greg the Bunny and Robot Chicken. <p> StOOpid MOnkEy!Ï
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shut the hell up
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Not sure why is so beloved by geekdom as his writing is terrible and his ideas tedious? Can someone explain?
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Anybody paying attention can tell that nodbody really has a clue WHAT to do with the Wonder Woman property. They've decided they want this movie, so now they're trying to market-analyze and custom-fit it to death. It's not like Joss went and said "hey, I've got this fabulous vision of Wonder Woman". He obviously didn't, he was hired to take a crack. They couldn't tell him what they want because they really don't know what they want. This other script won't get made either, but it was a out-of-left-field approach that was probably appealing since it sounds like nobody to date is happy with a modern take. But like somebody said above...NOBODY really gives a fuck about Wonder Woman. Also, the Buffyverse TV movies? Those were a bad idea from the get-go. Angel was cancelled after what could arguably be called it's best year, and people wanted to hold onto the notion it wasn't all dead yet. But it was, and I kinda get the feeling that even Joss wasn't all that into it.
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sounds like they are on the right track now with the other script. Wheedon's t.v. shows are fun, but his characters are not really strong enough to translate to film. Just my opinion.
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the character of Wonder Woman perfectly based on the various reviews I've read of the script and talking to people who have read it. It's a combination of the comic books, t.v. show and JL cartoon characterization. The REAL problem is getting people like Wheedon or Rucka, trying to "modernize" her as some feminist icon instead of just embracing what the character is.
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or to stop being such a boy scout. Dumb.
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We'll never really know what happened between Joss and the studios on Wonder Woman. It could be any number of factors - the script, character, action scenes, budget, casting ideas, anything. So speculation about Joss' 'failing' is kinda pointless. Besides, I'd rather see a project where Joss isn't hobbled by idiot executives. Anything to avoid another X3-type clusterfuck. Whoever said live action Runaways, that'd be a great thing, I'd think.
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We were talking a high school and then college show. The actors were mostly playing young to begin with. It's going to take some creative writting to explain why Xander and Angel are fat and look 40. Throw in everybody has jobs elsewhere now. I love the old shows, but the comics could give closure and I'd rather Wheldon did something new anyway. Look what happened last time. I had no faith in Firefly and it turned out to be one of my favorite all time shows.
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becuase the movie will not go down well in the heartland of the US. Focus groups will lobby that Wonder Woman clothing is too skimpy. The Fans will not tolerate a costume overhaul. This movie is dead and buried. unless they copy the xena look.
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becuase the movie will not go down well in the heartland of the US. Focus groups will lobby that Wonder Woman clothing is too skimpy. The Fans will not tolerate a costume overhaul. This movie is dead and buried. unless they copy the xena look.
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alteration, I imagine. Lynda Carter's costume ended up doing okay. And if they stick close to the characterization they have in mind, it will do fine. People love superheroes and actually this is the type of superhero movie people are craving but Hollywood does not seem to be interested in because they are stupid.
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The series sucked. Yeah - come and get it.
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...overrated by the most rabid of his fanbase, but I do appreciate the good work he's done (seasons 1-4 of Buffy and almost all of Angel) and wouldn't mind seeing the Buffyverse revisited at some point. I still think they could use the Doctor from Firefly as Angel (he looks just like Boreanaz from early Buffy) and pair him with a rightfully aged SMG to give those characters some closure. Although I think Angel had a perfect ending. It was Buffy's conclusion that blew sacrificial goats.
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Any show? Sorry guy, I'm not reading your comic books. Why can't Whedon capitalize on the Lost / Heroes craze while there's still backing for genre series? In a few more years, the studios won't want anything more to do with them. He's not getting any younger either. With this comic book thing, it's kind of like he's given up and I'm guessing we'll never see another show from him again. He seems to have issues with Hollywood (not that I blame him) that'll end up ruining what's left of his career. I guess I'll just have to wait for the next "Whedon" to come along.
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Angel was always the more epic and more cinematic of the two shows. Boreanaz wanted *Angel* to transition to the big screen, and rightfully so. I don't understand that snubbed comment. SMJ just doesn't want to do her role anymore and prefers to do other horror films instead. I bet Swansen (sic) would work better with Boreanaz anyway.
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David Fury
Returns To 24!! -- 36 total posts 28 posts - Sandler, Piss, Barf, And Hayek Grace The New GROWN UPS 2 Trailer!! -- 21 total posts 21 posts