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Moriarty Becomes Obsessed With David Fincher’s ZODIAC!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
This is a story that I’ve thought about a lot over the course of my life, so I had specific expectations about how that story might be told onscreen. Also, I’ve had a love-hate thing going with Fincher from the start, so I had no idea which reaction I’d have walking into ZODIAC. I have fundamental issues with ALIEN 3, and as much as I know Fincher was under enormous strain from all directions on that picture, it doesn’t change that my first reaction in the theater was intense hatred for the filmmaker, and an oath to never sit through anything by him again.
I was big on that sort of dramatic pronouncement in those days. An irritated fanboy can be a bigger drama queen than Scarlett O’Hara.
With SE7EN, the trailers won me over before I knew it was Fincher, and I gave him a chance one Saturday afternoon. Opening weekend, so I didn’t know much yet. And it caved my head in. I loved it. Loved every second of it.
THE GAME? Not so much. Like it. Think it’s got issues.
FIGHT CLUB? Well... see for yourself.
PANIC ROOM? Nope. Not at all. Not for me. It’s the first time I thought it was fair to dismiss him as “a music video director,” because it is a remarkably slick film about absolutely nothing. The camera is the star of the film. The entire thing exists as an ode to the pre-viz process. I could accept it as a style exercise as a warm up to something else, but he made this movie and then vanished for five years. Was that layoff worth the wait? Is this good Fincher or bad Fincher? Or is it something else, some new version of the filmmaker... a reinvention, perhaps?
ZODIAC doesn’t feel like anything else he’s made so far. He’s been a very visually-oriented filmmaker up till now, always choosing the great shot, the cutting-edge way of expressing some idea. In ZODIAC, the last thing you’re thinking of as you watch is the camera work. Fincher has returned with a subdued visual approach that pays off in a new emphasis on his actors and on mood.
The people that are going to tell you that ZODIAC is “poorly directed” are the people who define good direction by how much you move your camera. Personally, I’m glad he made the decision to drop the horseshit, because he was in danger of becoming a parody of himself. And instead, he’s made a great film, a powerful, sober work about madness, fear, and the elusive nature of truth.
I remember when the Zodiac was still in the news. One night, I had insomnia, as I often did as a child, and I was staying in the upstairs attic bedroom at my grandmother’s house. Tom Snyder’s TOMORROW show was on, and they were doing a special report recapping the entire Zodiac case. I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Tom Snyder and the producers of that particular episode for scaring the blue-eyed shit out of me. I was probably six or seven years old, and the story that show laid out for me that night absolutely petrified me. I was in Memphis, Tennessee that night, but it didn’t matter; I was convinced the Zodiac killer was going to climb the ivy on the outside of my grandmother’s house and break into the attic room specifically so he could get me.
There was one drawing in particular that they used during the program, done by a staff cartoonist for one of the San Francisco newspapers. A man in a black hood, with a gun in his hand and a knife on his belt. When I turned off the light after Snyder’s show, that’s the shape I kept seeing in the shadows. I had nightmares about the Zodiac Killer for months. I still find him to be one of the most haunting of all modern nightmare figures. Like Jack the Ripper, he endures as a figure of menace because he evaded capture. As unlikely as it is, there’s still that minute chance than when you see this movie this weekend, the Zodiac could be that ordinary looking guy in his late 50s sitting behind you, eating his popcorn. There’s a chance. And just that chance gives me the screaming heebie-jeebies when I think about it.
If you want to really get a taste for what this film is about, spend a few hours on the Internet doing your own research on The Zodiac Killer. Start with Wikipedia and then just follow the various links and Google searches and so on, and see what you come up with. See what sort of cacophony of opinion there is out there. Wade on out into that ocean of crazy surrounding this case.
Once you do that, you’ll understand the ride that Fincher’s built for you with ZODIAC. I’m not sure how anyone could watch this film and believe conclusively that any one person has been definitively identified as the killer. I know that Robert Graysmith thinks he identified the killer, and the film makes his personal choice abundantly clear. But does the film say that person is guilty? I’m not so sure. I think Fincher’s after something far more interesting than just a procedural. I think instead, he’s made a film about the toll that the procedure takes on the people involved. Characters come and go. People fall out of the film for a while, and some reappear while others don’t. It’s a sad film, a film where everyone who ends up touching this case feels doomed. It’s an episodic film, and it meanders quite a bit, and ultimately, it’s going to frustrate anyone who walks in looking for SE7EN. It’s going to frustrate anyone who walks in looking for a thriller.
There are several moments that are ripe with a dark anticipation, tense and creepy and even a little funny. Fincher’s great at that, and if he had wanted to, he could have turned this into a really scary film. The fear that this film deals with isn’t the cheap-thrill slasher movie kind of fear, though. This is existential dread. Fear of failure. Fear of disgrace. Fear of madness. The closest thing we get to a conventional horror moment is the attack on Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell at Twin Oak Ridge. It’s terrifying, but it’s shot very matter-of-fact. That dispassionate eye is a new thing for Fincher, and it’s the right choice. It makes this human instead of “cool.” These murders, the fear that gripped San Francisco and the surrounding areas, the toll this entire thing took on so many lives... that’s not “cool.” Instead of worrying about trying to make his camera do a CGI zoom through the barrel of a gun, he has focused that attention to detail to recapturing a period. And he’s done it in a far more canny way than just slapping some bellbottoms on his extras. He’s really soaked up his ‘70s cinema before making this one, and the film feels like it was made in the period where it takes place. It doesn’t feel period; it is period. It’s a time machine. Fincher has spoken about how he and screenwriter Jamie Vanderbilt worked with law enforcement, sorting through everything that exists on the Zodiac, and they’ve captured every single piece of the case, no matter how seemingly insignificant.
Because that’s the point. In a case like this, where so many questions go so maddeningly unanswered, who’s to say which details are significant and which ones aren’t? Inspector David Toschi (played to rumpled perfection by Mark Ruffalo) and his partner William Armstrong (a suitably world-weary Anthony Edwards) are never sure, no matter how much progress they feel like they’re making. Paul Avery (Robert Downey Jr., excellent as always) may be a great reporter, flashy and smart, but he chases this great lead right into a full-blown drug addiction and the end of a career. One by one, we see the way the case runs over the very people who are supposed to solve it. By the time the film gets to Robert Graysmith (Jake Gyllenhaal), he’s not the hero or even the lead. He’s just one more person who gets pulled in by the game, the challenge, the arrogance of Zodiac’s game. The fact that he taunted the police, the way he bragged about hiding his identity in plain view... it’s infuriating. And the urge to find him, to break that arrogance... it’s like a siren’s song to these genuinely good men, each of them crashing on the rocks in their own way. I’ve read a lot of people who hate Graysmith and his books who seem determined to discredit this film sight unseen. Don’t do that. This film may be based on those books, but it’s as much a comment on Graysmith’s reasons for writing them as it is an adaptation. I don’t think Graysmith is a sympathetic character in the least. He’s barely an entire human being as envisioned by the film. He’s a guy with no real personality who sees the Zodiac case as a way for him to define himself. He sees these guys like Toschi and Avery, guys who seem larger-than-life, and he thinks that doing something like this will make him someone like them. I think Graysmith comes across as a cold, lonely man, and I would imagine that if he sees this film in any objective way, he’s probably uncomfortable with the portrait it paints. At the very least, he should be.
A film like this, taking place over 20 years and covering so much ground, is an excuse to give a lot of actors small roles designed to give them a moment to shine. Brian Cox has a lot of fun as Melvin Belli.
John Carroll Lynch, one of those familiar faces you’ve seen a thousand times but who you probably don’t know by name, does difficult and exacting work as Arthur Leigh Allen. I don’t see how his family could be upset at the portrayal here, since the filmmakers stick to the facts that have been proven. He’s creepy... but is he evil? I don’t think Lynch plays it that way at all.
Once you’re paranoid, though, as Graysmith is, everyone starts to seem creepy. Ione Skye, who doesn’t work nearly enough, is great in her one sequence, and she strikes just the right note of terror. Clea DuVall only has one scene, but she suggests a whole other film happening just off-camera with the little touches in her work. And my favorite small role in the film is played by Charles Fleischer, best known to most people as the voice of Roger Rabbit.
As great as the talent is in front of the camera, Fincher’s collaborators here are all in top form. David Shire’s one of those composers who has been doing this forever, and he scored some of the great films of the ‘70s, some of the films that Fincher is drawing obvious inspiration from. THE TAKING OF PELHAM 1-2-3. THE CONVERSATION, for god’s sakes. ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN. SHORT TIME. Harris Savides, Fincher’s cinematographer here, is the exact opposite. He’s done less than ten theatrical features, and he’s still evolving as an artist, still figuring himself out. He doesn’t seem to repeat himself at all, which suggests to me that he’s more formidable than some of the one-trick-ponies who may have a signature, but they don’t really have range. Working here with the Viper HD cameras, he’s rendered any argument about the difference between film and high-def fairly pointless. This is a beautiful film, rich in palette, and anyone looking to work with this camera system would do well to study what Fincher’s done here with Savides.
Ultimately, what has stuck with me in the week and a half since I saw the film is the way it refuses to give you any release at the end. This is not a movie that’s interested in making you feel good before you leave the theater. It’s frustrating, and that’s by design. You are left with the same gnawing sense of anxiety that everyone who was involved with the story must have felt every day, and the fact that the movie so completely imparts that emotional experience is the mark of just how successful it is for me.
Knowing that this is the Fincher we’re dealing with now has me practically drooling at the idea of finally seeing BENJAMIN BUTTON later this year. 2007’s going to be a very, very interesting year for fans of this director, who seems to have plenty of surprises left for us.
And with that, I’m off to Pixar. I’ve got more stuff for you later this weekend as soon as I get back.
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
PS -- Happy Birthday, Dad!
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
PS -- Happy Birthday, Dad!
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it's my money, I want as much movie as possible!
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Well written. Maybe I'll change my mind and see this before DVD afterall! I'm about your age, Mori, and I don't remember the Zodiac. What scared me at that age was the Boston Strangler and Son of Sam!
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I totally forgot to talk about how this also makes for a strange sort of companion piece to SUMMER OF SAM. I didn't like that film much, and I like this one a lot, and I think my reaction to the differences between them in expressing certain key ideas says a lot about my taste as a film fan. They make for a fascinating sort of litmus test.
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I didn't even think to mention the length of this one because it never occurred to me in the theater, either. I'm not a clock watcher in the first place, but sometimes I'll feel it when a film is leisurely. This one always felt urgent to me, so length wasn't any sort of issue at all.
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Amazing - am even MORE excited to see this now.
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The Zodiac may have been quite large in America but not really comparible to Jack The Ripper is he???
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This is one I'm really looking forward to. And, Mori, I have to say I really liked Panic Room (even though it seemed to be a modern "reimagining" of Rear Window, which is still far superior).
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Looking forward to getting my teetvh into a deep, clever, intelligent, well-acted movie. Just arent enough of these made anymore. Loved Pelham 123. Even enjoyed the re-make which I saw on Hallmark. Mood and intelligence. You cant beat it! So whats this Benjamin Buttons about? I'm interested in any Fincher news.
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First of all, it's funny how sometimes I don't get a Talkbacker's name as a joke until I type it and have to actually think about it. Nice one.
http://tinyurl.com/23ub3n is the link for the F. Scott Fitzgerald short story that Fincher's film is based on. This is a story that everyone's been trying to film for at least 20 years now. Check it out. -
... my faith in this motion picture has been made steadfast by your excellent review since I've been a little nervous about it (hopes set too high, and all that Jazz) and especially after reading Massawyrm's review. You see I want this film to be perfect. I want Fincher to 'knock this one outta the park' I believe the expression goes... but deep down inside I just don't think it's going to be the case... Yet I hope! I read somewhere that Fincher has peaked too early and I think I may agree with that as while Fight Club was a great film, I doubt if Mr Fincher will ever hit the quality, heights or indeed standards of Seven ever again. I for one, consider that offering a masterpiece. Hail Arrius!
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"He’s creepy... but is he evil? I don’t think Lynch plays it that way at all."
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Fight Club was better than 7. Fincher is a genius and almost anything he puts out (even Panic Room- which I didn't particularly like) is superior to most of the dreck that passes for entertainment nowadays. Mori, how could you have blamed Fincher so passionately for Alien3 when almost all the stuff that was wrong with it can be traced back to other people? Alien 3 is underrated, and just miles better than the pieces of crap that have followed. Granted, it is not as good as Aliens, let alone Alien- but it is still a good film, that returns the series to its pure horror roots away from the more gung-ho atmosphere of Aliens. Which is not a bad thing.
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that the realife-life killer doesn't decide to do an aging comeback after seeing this flick...he'll probably ask Sylvester Stallone for tips who'll probably just say'EY YO ADRIAN!'
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..that the realife-life killer doesn't decide to do an aging comeback after seeing this flick...he'll probably ask Sylvester Stallone for tips who'll probably just say'EY YO ADRIAN!'
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Um, that's all. Great work from both you and Fincher.
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everything that is wrong with it goes to the feet of one man - Jon Landau. God I hate that cunt.
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glad to hear the length was necessary to the film. I've got a strong bladder and a patient mind, long movies are great.out of curiosity, what were your issues with The Game? I loved that movie, and I honestly can't take issue with any part of it. the best part abotu it, in my mind, is that following Se7en, I truly believed it could end as dark as that film did, which made it all the more unpredictable. the only downside for me is that whenever I see deborah kara unger, I picture james spader penetrating an open leg wound with his "little spader"
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...and Tosh mixed in a steaming bowl of sour-bollocks soup. My dear Lost friend, Fincher's Seven has far greater emotional impact than the aforementioned Fight Club. Now do not get me wrong, Fight Club is good... compelling even but as an movie experience as a whole it simply does not stack up against Seven.
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Every damn review on here of ZODIAC talks about his "good ones and bad ones" - please, enough already. If the guy plops dead tomorrow, he'll have a body of work that'll be remembered generations from now. The guy's a treasure, and I support his (and Soderbergh's) stuff sight unseen, and never walk away disappointed. Whether the entire picture works for me or not, there is always something memorable and/or interesting in a Fincher (and Soderbergh) film. Quitcherbitchin.
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Yes... you are quit right... I lost my self there for a moment! I humbly apologise... Can I call you 'dad'?
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Similar premise to The Picture Of Dorian Gray which I saw years ago and loved. I LOVE The Game. Thats when I knew Mr Fincher was a man to watch. I've shown it relentlessly to people over the years but only have get it like I do, lol. The plots a little contrieved, even I could see that hoping Douglas would jump of the right sde of the building was pushing it a bit :). But it had style and mood by the bucket. And Douglas ruled as the richman sinking further out of his depth. Loved the T-shirt at the end "I got drugged and left for dead in Mexico, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt". GReat stuff.
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I'm dying to see this and appears I'll be doing so alone as noone can seem to bear the running time. It isn't exactly a fucking Kevin Costner movie here where you need to call off work for a week to finish the damn thing.
www.selfportrait.net/lusher -
... Was far better than it's given credit for. Ignore the story and just watch the visuals. Amazing direction & cinematography. I only watched Se7en because Fincher did it and, boy, am I SO glad I kept looking for Fincher's name attached to a film! As far as Zodiac ... I just can't wait, but I'm going to have to *sigh*
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I like all the OPPOSITE Fincher films from you. And I don't like the ones you like. I can't see why people hate on Alien 3. Panic Room was great too. What is wrong with you man? Cos it definitely can't be me.
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Gotta eat... BRAINS!
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Tossed out so flippantly, matter-of-fact.
You bastich!
Oh and sorry for that previous post. Well, not really. -
I think people really need to know that they shouldn't expect "SE7EN", here. Like myself, I think there are many HUGE fans of "SE7EN" who may be expecting the thrills that such a masterpiece offers. I mean, who wouldn't be disappointed when, excited to see a particular type of movie, discover that you get quite another, masterpiece or not. Then again, I suppose that... THAT... may depend on how you define a masterpiece. Some people are open to all styles of storytelling and can feel a masterpiece no matter what the genre or in what way the story is interpreted. Sometimes, a complete turn for a filmmaker can be a great surprise and sometimes... it may seem quite the other, depending on your perspective. But I do like to have some sense of what I'm about to witness, if only a little. Mind you, I don't like seeing movie-trailers that reveal an entire movie in under a minute, where you feel there's no need to see the movie. So, for me, I'm thankful for this one (and only one) review I've read. --Oh, and by the way, I still think Robert Downey, Jr. is a fine actor. It's just that I don't find him right for the role of Tony Stark in an "IRON-MAN" film. I suppose we'll get his spin on it... and I do hope that he can surprise us in being a man's man type of character. (Tom Selleck, in his prime, would have been perfect for Tony Stark.)
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Thanks, Moriarty. The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like the kind of slow-burner I'll appreciate the more I watch it. Which is good.As for The Game, never have I seen a good film fall apart so badly at the end. Not only is it contrived, but the suggestion that attempting suicide (in front of all your friends, no less!) is a good way of ridding yourself of suicidal ideation is simplistic to the point of absurdity. What, you only get one try at killing yourself, and if you fail all your problems go away? Jezum crow.
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Nicely put. And very encouraging that you have the balls to recognise it as such and yet still recommend this film.
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I am usually one to piss and moan about digital looking like garbage, but not so here. It's far and away the best looking digital film ever. Hopefully Michael Mann will go to Fincher for some pointers.
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I love The Game as well, but you missed one thing. They weren't hoping that he would jump of the building, near the end, one character tells Michael Douglas that he's glad that he jumped, because he was supposed to throw him off. His jumping off was unexpected, but they were maneuvering him to that side so they could push him on to the big air mattress. Of course, it seems like they should have been worried he'd have a heart attack or a stroke, lol.
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http://tinyurl.com/2p6jjy , this is classic.
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I'm reading the book now and it seems so obvious that he is Zodiac but they never got anything on him. Zero evidence other than he was always in the area and he fit the profile perfectly. His family and friends thought he was the guy too.
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I can (just about) forgive you for liking Alien3 and Panic Room, but do I read you right in saying you don't think much of Seven or Fight Club? Are you on crack?!
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This is one of the most insightful, concise reviews I've read from one of the best reviewers out there. I'm the opposite when it comes to David Fincher - The Game is by far my favorite, and Alien 3, while flawed and uneven in tone, exercised simple imagery to reinvent the creature, as opposed to bigger, more epic events - and it did it with grace. I was somewhere around 13 when I saw it, and it definitely planted some fertile eggs in my fanboy imagination, and taught me a few things about how to make a movie that's simple and contained, while being epic in it's palette. I agree that Fight Club was a damn fine film and many of my friends have been very positively affected by it - that message needed to be shared in an overt way. It's a lot like Million Dollar Baby in that respect, which I also love. I think Zodiac will be our point of contact, though - what you describe is very much in keeping with some of the work I'm doing myself, and I love those kinds of films.
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That is what Panic Room was. Fight Club was perfect, and Seven was great, but Panic Room seemed to me to be a rush to make Fight Club 2. Too glizty without a good story.
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Is kinda funny. As someone from 'our' generation who had exactly the opposite reaction to the film, ie, thought it was transparent, telegraphed, often-dull, manipulative nonsense that seemed to be attempting to pander to the laughable take-ourselves-so-seriously elements that ALL generations have but are usually intelligent enough not to embrace and flaunt as some sort of statement in-and-of itself, it strikes me that the film has ultimately come out to be a hell of a lot less relevant both as art and cultural statment than my fellow kiddies would've liked. Sorry, guys. We're a little more grim and scowling than the one before and we've got blogs n' shit, but we're the really just the same old same old.
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I'm looking forward to this, as is my wife, who God Forbid ever ends up violently killed, because they'll come in here and find all these books on serial killers and transcripts of trials and pictures and shit and I'll have to try to explain that SHE was the one who found it all so damned fascinating while they're putting the cuffs on me.
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I'm looking forward to this and I'm not at all concerned by the running time...
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I agree on the same old same old. Each generation talks a good game about changing but we never do. Every issue we've said we were going to stop is still around. but then again, no one would pay to see Hug Club
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i've always loved yer reviews. but, your lack of respect for fincher is disheartening. he's been a major talent since the very beginning. yes, alien 3 had it's problems. but, it was a killer effort from a first time feature filmmaker stepping into a major franchise picture. and, well, fight club is pure genius. that's the truth. any other opinion can't be taken seriously. panic room was great. it really was. one of the few directors who'd be able to pull of such an isolated story. the man is simply one of the greatest american filmmakers working today. not afraid to go where others fear. mori, you need to check yerself...
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where Harry thought the world would be changed after people saw it? Oh yeah, V for Vendetta. Still waiting for that revolution too.
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Listen, upon recent viewings of Fight Club I do find it somewhat immature and childish. But, firstly, as a film experience, i.e., a mixture of sound, image, movement, character, music, dialogue, it's still pretty tops. And, secondly, I do think the film (and the novel) have some interesting things to say about consumerism, materialism, the immasculation of the American male, and more. Mostly, though, it's just a lot of fun, and, if taken not-too-seriously as a piece of black comedy, it's a classic.
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I mean "emasculation". They have to improve their system here.
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...made me a believer in Fincher. When the guy is really passionate about a project he's as good and as talented a director as there is. It's good to see that my hope for this film may not be entirely unrewarded.I too shared Mori's dislike Of Alien 3 but I have since forgiven Fincher for that travesty.I recommend that anyone unfamiliar with the Zodiac check out the excellent timeline on the official Zodiac Movie site. Five minutes of reading the newspaper clippings, Zodia letters and watching crime scene photos will get you as pumped as I am for this film. Some of the stuff the Zodiac got away with seems like it could only have been created in the mind of a Hollywood screenwriter - it's that twisted.Oh and anyone who truly dislikes Se7en needs to give it another shot. The film is an absolute clinic in how to direct a thriller. Head in a box...
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Is that a lot of it is contrived based on the detectives. What if two single cops not interested in allusions were assigned to the case? This is how the movie goes:
Detective 1: Well, this is 5 murders so far. Any ideas?
Detective 2: Nope. Wanna go get lunch?
Kevin Spacey: I'm turning myself in to fulfill the pattern!
Detective 1: There's a pattern?
[Later]
Kevin Spacey: I grew envious of you, Detective 2. I paid a visit to your girlfriend. Become rage!
Detective 2: Dude, you killed Cheryl?!? Oh Thank God, I was getting so sick of that bitch. Come on, let's get you back to jail. -
You definitely don't want to use the Graysmith books as your only sources....check this: http://tinyurl.com/2aflox
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What's amazing about this film is that Fincher frames it, nearly scene by scene, like a film made in the 70s. Michael Winner or Mean Streets era Martin Scorcese could have made it. It's as if Fincher stepped into a time machine which not only took him back to the era, but also turned back the clock thirty odd years on directorial methodology. An apt choice.
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I don't really give credit or blame to Fincher for Panic Room. I mean, it is what it is. The story's flimsy as all hell. He did a purely functional and technically accomplished job with it. Ultimately though, there's virtually nothing in the script that's going to allow it to become any sort of really visceral experience. It just isn't. It's lightweight. Written by..? David Koepp, potentially to be the whipping boy for the screenplay of our displeasure over the next Indy movie, but also for actually writing such misery as The Trigger Effect and The Shadow. I mean, there you go. Panic Room is completely watchable, but I honestly don't know what the hell else Fincher could've done with it to make it anything special.
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Excellent movie. Jake Gyllenhaal is superb. Robert Downey is just as great as ever. This is the first great movie of 2007. You won't be disappointed.
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among the other cinematographic (and non-cinematographic) things of the decade... go, fincher go!
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Great review of the film. Even though I lived across the pacific ocean. I remember hearing on radio tales of the night stalker. Scared me silly. The man who comes into your home and wipes out everyone in it.
It's funny how in modern times. There doesn't seem to be the serial killers around like there used to be. Which is a good thing.
Is it better policing? Abortion? I'm not sure. -
Since most of these horror movies nowadays, namely the SAW movies have jacked the style he set in "Se7en." Can't wait to see this tomorrow. Another great review from the best reviewer on the site...
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Theres a great TV movie with Alun Armstrong as the chief detective having a breakdown trying to catch him. Watch it if you get a chance.
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Thank you.
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The only reason you think Tom Selleck could have played Iron Man is because he had a moustache. And it wasn't even the same moustache. But hey, I'm just me, and you, glorious sir, could one day be the greatest fantasy film director of all time.
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I think you're right. I LOVE Summer of Sam and I thought Zodiac was pretty good. I don't think they're really alike but it's a good comparison. Zodiac actually reminded me most of All the President's Men, which is another movie I think is pretty good. I think it has to do with 'style over substance' or vice versa. Ideally you get both but I can love something that's got style with no substance but not the other way around. If you're the opposite, you should probably LOVE Zodiac.
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Wow. I agree, I want more of this movie. It went by in a flash. Typically you see a film maker mature gradually with each movie. Not this one. Fincher has just made the best movie of his career so far. Im not kidding. Se7en may be everyones favorite but Fincher could not have made Zodiac 10 years ago. It was fantastic. I look forward to the DVD because I know there is at least 25 more minutes on a directors cut. There are some holes I want filled. Like the 4 year flash... What happened to Avery? He fell so hard so fast. I want to to drink in at least 15 more minutes of each main characters back story and see their full journey... Please everyone, go see this in the theater, it's that good...
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I disagree with this comment strongly. I thought the film had some really well done camerawork, some that was really creative, and some that could not have been done any better by any director. I really liked the camerawork in this, and I thought that the visual styles were nice. I could see some of the classic Fincher in here, and I wouldn't say he has completely changed. I disagree with that comment of yours, but the rest of your review was spot on.
I absolutely loved the movie though. I just was blown away by it. Everything about it to me. I wouldn't change a frame, an actor, or anything. I just thought it was all brilliant. I think this is the best of 2007 thus far, and this confirmed to me that Fincher it a genius despite Panic Room. -
Zodiac is different from Jack the Ripper in an essential way. Jack enjoyed the kill more, where with Zodiac, you almost felt he was killing just so he could play the game. Don't get me wrong, he took pleasure in murder, but the kill was the tool; the fame was the game. Ever wonder why he stopped? I think he grew bored with the game, so the killing became unnecessary. To me, he's an untraditional Serial Killer, because he either stopped, or completely changed his M.O. Jack the Ripper, on the other hand, was pure monster. He relished the kill in a very deep way. It was art for him, a hateful act of butchery done with the skill of a surgeon. He wasn't into the game nearly as much. They are both fascinating cases, and have some similarities, but I thin they are very different kinds of serial killers. Blah blah blah, the Professor has Pontificated.
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Two things I disagree with in your discussion about the porblems with se7en.
1. I hate the what if explanation for hating a movie. It's a fictional story so of course if the characters were different the movie wouldn't work. You can do that with any film. For example what if in Aliens the creatures didn't have acid for spit or what if Indiana Jones (a professor) didn't know how to use a bullwhip? The what if reasoning holds no real merit.
2. The detectives didn't have to be in on the allusions to solve the case. The killer in se7en actually used exact words to describe the sins at some of his crime scenes (like the word greed written in blood in one scene). There's no allusions there. The killer didn't care if they figured it out or not - that wasn't the point - that was made clear by the fact that he turned himself in.
Seven wasn't really about the solution to the crimes or finding the killer it was about the mind of the criminal and the crimes themselves. That's what made it so unique it was a crime thriller where the police were actually never really close to solving the crime. Like I sadi you need to give it another viewing. -
Zodiac is great. I just wish they could have had it done by the end of 2006. It would have cleaned up at the Oscars.
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It would be great if they could include The Tomorrow Show episode about the Zodiac Killer as a bonus on the dvd.
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good job sir.
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Hats off. I'm in love with this movie. The New York Times did an article about Fincher having to cut a montage here and there, and I'm praying for a directors cut dvd. Zodiac is the goods, everybody.
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I grew up afraid of The Son of Sam, not Zodiac, but I am from the East Coast, not the West. In any case, I can identify with the dread that Moriarity describes. This is definitely a film worth seeing. Restrained but powerful work. And Mori is dead-on about a number of things, including that Ione Skye doesn't work nearly enough, and that Clea DuVall's brief appearance DOES really suggest an entirely other movie happening just off-camera (I like Clea DuVall as an actress, unlike many of the more childish talk-backers over on the HEROES boards). This movie really does create an excellent sense of place and time. Excellent work.
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It NEVER gets old ripping on old JDanielP does it? I always get excited when I see that he posted, so much so that I always skim first to find the inevitable "If only Hollywood would give me my shot I would be an awesome fantasy/sci-fi/superhero movie director" sentence that he always has in his posts. Though not this time curiously enough. Maybe he got tired of us harping on him so much. Zodiac was great. I wasn't all that excited to see it, but I'm sure glad I did. David Fincher is an outstanding director. The last part of the scene at the lake is incredibly disturbing. Flawlessly directed.
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movie (and I don't think hate describes it ... I think Meh is more like it), it's just something I like to play around with. There's just a level of pretentiousness about the whole thing that turns me off.
You know what would've made the film better: if Morgan Freeman was the one who had to become Rage. I mean, Brad Pitt is easy; he bought the Cliff Notes for Chris'sakes. Making Morgan Freeman become Rage, well, that may have rescued the movie for me. -
once he got so mad at something I posted he typed "GET THE FUCK OFF MY SET!" I don't know if he meant it like his set, like his movie set, or as in "get the fuck off my set, holmes." But who are we to judge, really? Someday someone will knock on his door and hand him a shot to make a Kingdom Come film with Howie Long as Superman.
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It may not win, but I can absolutely see it being a contender. It was just one narrative voiceover away from being a sprawling Scorsese flick, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. Every actor in the thing (and there are a LOT of them) does top-notch work throughout, and yes, especially Charles Fleischer. I wanted to know SO much more about his character that it was maddening to see him disappear after such a short scene. There's no real lead actor here, but the performances that Gyllenhaal and Robert Downey Jr. do is award-winning stuff. Top notch review for a top notch movie, Mori. You hit pretty much everything right on the head.
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Just wanted to add that in. :)
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I mean, why wouldn't a studio hand over the rights to KINGDOM COME and $200,000,000 to a "talented unknown"? Yes, he is very amusing. My favorite was his idea for a Batman sequel that had The Joker as the main villian. See, he wasn't dead because of one of his henchmen named "Cameron", played by Anthony Hopkins. Cameron was watching the events at the top of the cathedral from the top of another building, and when The Joker fell Cameron used his rocket powered hanglider and zoomed in underneath The Joker to slow down his descent. Apparently he still lets him fall to the ground though. But he doesn't die because "his descent is slowed down and when he hits the ground it's not enough to kill him". Hell, maybe I'll give JDanielP some money and a camera!
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(Here you go, one9deuce, since you guys appreciate the entertainment value. I found this with a little internet search... and have copied the text for you. Enjoy.) I once, years ago, ... in '89 or '90 ... began writing a screenplay titled "Under the Wing of Batman" (a sequel to Burton's original "BATMAN") ... in hopes of printing copies for Warner Bros. executives, complete with costume conceptual designs ... which, most importantly, would include a bullet-proof "training suit" for Batman's new sidekick, Robin. And, of course, young Robin's bulky, protective suit would be in muted tones of the character's well-known vibrant colors (similar to the colors of the Robin costume from "BATMAN FOREVER", but without the shine). Anyway, in this screenplay, I had the PERFECT way to bring back the Joker ... in a believable way, even. That is, believable within the confines of the fantastic reality the original film (and characters) are based. -- (Stay with me, now.) Somewhere in this house, where I currently live, I have a video tape in which I re-recorded the ending of "BATMAN" where my screenplay would have begun ... and mixed it (using audio-dub from my VHS video camera) with the "suicide run" music of "DANCES WITH WOLVES" ... knowing with my gut-instinct that THAT music had the feeling of movement and pacing that I was looking for ... to help me further illustrate what happened with the Joker. My very first try, after getting the projected timing (of the music) just right with several practice runs and the aid of a stop-watch, I perfectly blended the music to the video. (The music changes on cue with the Joker getting tied up and then with his fall.) -- If you want to try it, I remember the music starting on the word "first" ... when Batman says, "I made you ... but you made me (CUE MUSIC!)" -- "THIS IS HOW THE MOVIE WOULD BEGIN: (Batman)"Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" And so ... the scene plays out with new editing, with NEW footage added of three unfamiliar people in the familiar Joker jackets, on a neighboring rooftop. I imagined, back then, Anthony Hopkins as "Cameron", the group leader. You see, Cameron is watching the scene with binoculars ... while having his primitive looking (Tim Burton style) jet-pack repeatedly yanked by the "lawn mower cord" in failed attempt after failed attempt to get it started. (It even sounds like false starts of a lawn mower.) To cut to the chase ... the timing of the scene would have the jet-pack started and Cameron making it to the Joker (with slow motion) as they fall. With the weight of the "stone Gargoyle", Cameron hits the thrusters at maximum blast ... and as they near the ground, Cameron slices the Bat-rope with one swipe, with a blade which jets out from his sleeve. The stone falls without them, making the impression in the street below. But the sudden loss of weight with the thrusters on high, Cameron looses his grip on his ol' grade school chum. Cameron grabs at the severed Bat-rope. But combined with his now out of control flight, the rope slips ... and the Joker falls some thirty feet .. right into the gargoyle made impression. (There would have been a scene transition from Cameron's p.o.v. of the Joker below ... blending into his p.o.v. of a prison guard below, whom he had just sent over the railing to his death, to the bottom floor at Stonegate Prison.) Turns out the Joker had been staying at Arkham ... and he's almost mastered walking again, thinner, with his white dermatitis showing some effects over time. -- Whew, I'll stop there. Now that all THAT is over, here's my idea: How about Warner Bros. make it as a video game? "UNDER THE WING OF BATMAN" would be a game where you would NEVER play as Batman. (Oh, no. We're not THAT good.) No. We have it better in that we actually get to witness the Dark Knight in action. The player controlled characters would be characters like the young Robin (We learn skills as he does!), Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, a policeman, a prison guard, and an innocent bystander. And how cool would it be to have all those original voices (even Jack!), as a legit sequel to "BATMAN"??? -- What do ya think? -- Oh, and by the way, ... "Cameron" eventually becomes the Killer Moth.
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Anything else, guys?
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Your idea, like all of your ideas, sucks.
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what's the thrill for one guy under two names in riding JDP? It won't make your dick bigger.
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This is the Zodiac speaking.⊕
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for each Zodiac thread.Lazy bitch.
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i'll try harder next time. was just bored.
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Know that you are never alone (Orcus)....
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We'll a bunch of stuff anyway. Can't swing a dead cat in the underworld of AICN without bumping into Orcus
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