Cool News
UPDATED W/ MORE INFO!! Some Images From BABYLON 5: THE LOST TALES Jump Onto The Internets!!
Merrick here...
The2ndQuest sent in this great write-up (thanks for this, by the way) about material revealed at this weekend's Ney York Comic Con. A bit more information about what we can expect, the new title sequence that was revealed at the Con, etc. Very cool!
Here's The2ndQuest's message...
B5: The Lost Tales News
-JMS reitterated that TLT came about after WB asked him if he wanted to do a theatrical B5 film, but JMS declined since enough time hasn't pasted since the death of Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs, and it's still hard for him to think about a B5 movie so long as Andreas and Richard "insist on staying dead", but that he'll be able to sit down and get a theatrical film made eventually, but can do these smaller stories in TLT in the interim.
-The Lost Tales Vol 1 is two stories set in the same 48 hour period- one with Sheridan going from Minbar to B5 for an event regarding the 10th anniversary of the Alliance, which the other is about Colonel Lochley on the station waiting and preparing for Sheridan to arrive, while dealing with the trouble that arises there.
-He showed 6-8 video blogs from TLT set (rough versions, at least, as some are still awaiting the FX shots to be finished so they can do comparisons), though it being Joe, most is him goofing off, but you get a look at some of the sets as they're being built, and there's a talk with Bruce, Tracy and Peter (Peter's hilarious, saying something to the effect of "and, for Bruce and Tracy and others, working with them, it's real chance for them to finally get it right!"). Another was of the actor playing Prince Regent Vintari, showing both some of his screentest and of an actual scene with him and Sheridan (Vintari: "Emperor Mollari said he would trust you with his life- then he took it back and said he would trust you with MY life, as he had plans for next week.")- he basicly talked about the screentest and how, despite never watching B5 beforehand (though became a fan of it after he looked it up), nailed the Centauri accent without knowing. And though it's not said directly in the movie itself, JMS confirmed that Vintari is Cartagia's son.
-It'll probably be another year/year and a half before TLT Volume 2 comes out, depending on sales. He also said that we might finally see more of the Telepath War in future installments
-They'll have a trailer to show at the San Diego Comic-Con.
-Release date for TLT is July 27th, i believe.
As a final treat, JMS showed rough cuts of the opening title sequence for The Lost Tales, including new music by Christpher Franke. It goes like this:
-Begins with the decommisioning of Babylon 5, with the ships moving away from the station as it explodes while the Sleeping in Light theme plays (he subsequently showed a cut lacking the music but containing an almost-finished version of this sequence- it looks gorgeous) and a chunk of B5 flies right into the camera.
-We start following debris of B5 through space as a date at the bottom of the screen clocks back from 2281 to 2271 until the debris reforms back into Babylon 5 and the camera goes into the main dcking bay doors ala the end of the Season 3 title sequence. Over the course of this sequence, as a tribute to Andreas, plays the following G'Kar lines:
"I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains."
-Then kicks in a series of "faction portraits", for lack of a better term, similar in style to the B5 DVD menus, with a planet in the background, and near-fully body images of various characters representing that world/faction fading in dramaticly in teh foreground. Over all this plays music that's reminiscent of the Legend of the Rangers main theme, to a degree, before it segues into the main Season 5+ Babylon 5 theme. The portraits are:
-B5, with Sheridan, Garibaldi and, I think, Lochley.
-Centauri Prime, with Londo and Vir (and a shot of the palace off to the side)
-Minbar, with Delenn and Lennier
-Narn, with G'Kar
-Vorlon Homeworld (?! Might have been Z'ha'dum, but it went by fast I couldn't tell), with Kosh (not Ulkesh).
Burried within the ungodly quantity of e-mails I receive every day (every morning I wake up to about 1,000 e-mails...roughly 960 of them are spam...spam that seems to defeat every filter the AICN Tech Folk deploy) was a message sent late last week. The message was a heads up about some new material from the forthcoming direct-to-DVD continuation of BABYLON 5, which is due mid-Summerish if memory serves.
In short: here's the revamped title design & an FX shot from the show itself. The FX are created by Armosphere. You you can see Atmpshere's reel HERE; some of their work may seem familiar.
The images can be seen HERE, which appears to be something of a clearing house for usenet/internet posts made by J. Michael Straczynski (JMS).
I'm tremendously curious to see how this plays out. If these DVDs perform well (sales, rentals, etc.) there will almost certainly be further B5 productions. If this doesn't do well? There won't. I'm told the outcome of this is will, quite literally & almost exlusively, be determined by fans/viewers voting with their pocket books (I'm assuiming an ability to sell ithe project for broadcast will factor into the equation as well). Which is a long winded way of saying: if you want more B5, go buy this thing & try to interest those around you as well. Just like the good old days.
While I know the DVDs of the series & TV movies performed admirably, this will be the first true test of BABYLON 5's timelessness since franchise production haulted back in (what was it?) 1999; an interesting assessment of its market viability...and of the passion so many folks once shared for a series that, in many regards, was remarkable even by today's standards.
Personally, it's it's hard for me not to get a little goosebumpy when seeing shots from a new BABYLON 5. For a show that barely made it...who would've thought???
I apologize for not getting this to you sooner, I've never been very good at WHERE'S WALDO?
KNOW MORE???
[[[e-mail Merrick]]]
B5: The Lost Tales News
-JMS reitterated that TLT came about after WB asked him if he wanted to do a theatrical B5 film, but JMS declined since enough time hasn't pasted since the death of Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs, and it's still hard for him to think about a B5 movie so long as Andreas and Richard "insist on staying dead", but that he'll be able to sit down and get a theatrical film made eventually, but can do these smaller stories in TLT in the interim.
-The Lost Tales Vol 1 is two stories set in the same 48 hour period- one with Sheridan going from Minbar to B5 for an event regarding the 10th anniversary of the Alliance, which the other is about Colonel Lochley on the station waiting and preparing for Sheridan to arrive, while dealing with the trouble that arises there.
-He showed 6-8 video blogs from TLT set (rough versions, at least, as some are still awaiting the FX shots to be finished so they can do comparisons), though it being Joe, most is him goofing off, but you get a look at some of the sets as they're being built, and there's a talk with Bruce, Tracy and Peter (Peter's hilarious, saying something to the effect of "and, for Bruce and Tracy and others, working with them, it's real chance for them to finally get it right!"). Another was of the actor playing Prince Regent Vintari, showing both some of his screentest and of an actual scene with him and Sheridan (Vintari: "Emperor Mollari said he would trust you with his life- then he took it back and said he would trust you with MY life, as he had plans for next week.")- he basicly talked about the screentest and how, despite never watching B5 beforehand (though became a fan of it after he looked it up), nailed the Centauri accent without knowing. And though it's not said directly in the movie itself, JMS confirmed that Vintari is Cartagia's son.
-It'll probably be another year/year and a half before TLT Volume 2 comes out, depending on sales. He also said that we might finally see more of the Telepath War in future installments
-They'll have a trailer to show at the San Diego Comic-Con.
-Release date for TLT is July 27th, i believe.
As a final treat, JMS showed rough cuts of the opening title sequence for The Lost Tales, including new music by Christpher Franke. It goes like this:
-Begins with the decommisioning of Babylon 5, with the ships moving away from the station as it explodes while the Sleeping in Light theme plays (he subsequently showed a cut lacking the music but containing an almost-finished version of this sequence- it looks gorgeous) and a chunk of B5 flies right into the camera.
-We start following debris of B5 through space as a date at the bottom of the screen clocks back from 2281 to 2271 until the debris reforms back into Babylon 5 and the camera goes into the main dcking bay doors ala the end of the Season 3 title sequence. Over the course of this sequence, as a tribute to Andreas, plays the following G'Kar lines:
"I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains."
-Then kicks in a series of "faction portraits", for lack of a better term, similar in style to the B5 DVD menus, with a planet in the background, and near-fully body images of various characters representing that world/faction fading in dramaticly in teh foreground. Over all this plays music that's reminiscent of the Legend of the Rangers main theme, to a degree, before it segues into the main Season 5+ Babylon 5 theme. The portraits are:
-B5, with Sheridan, Garibaldi and, I think, Lochley.
-Centauri Prime, with Londo and Vir (and a shot of the palace off to the side)
-Minbar, with Delenn and Lennier
-Narn, with G'Kar
-Vorlon Homeworld (?! Might have been Z'ha'dum, but it went by fast I couldn't tell), with Kosh (not Ulkesh).
KNOW MORE???
[[[e-mail Merrick]]]
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+ Expand All
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nuff said.
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We need Firefly to come back first.
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At least one of the main actors is dead (the lizzard guy). Is this a prequel or concurent with the series?
Anyway, I'm in. -
Its high time that B5, the undisputed best Sci-Fi series of the 90's, got its continuance. It was hands down better than Trek, Lexx, Space: above and beyond, Stargate, and even Farscape couldn't beat it for scope and sheer genius.
will be buying these the day they get released, just like I did with the B5 boxed set. -
JMS previewed some video blogs at NYCC this past weekend that will be posted online fairly soon. Fun stuff.
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It's set ten years after the founding of the Interstellar Alliance and will feature two stories- one centered on Lockley and the other centered on Sheridan. CRUSADE's Galen will also be in it. JMS has stated that if the series goes forward he plans on telling stories along any point of the B5 timeline.
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Don't get me wrong I love the B5 series. It always has been one of my favorites, but if future new stuff hangs on how this sells, I think this will be the end. Its too far gone to get sufficient interest in buying DVDs. Zathras knows this....
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Despite it's mediocre special effects, this show really drew me into it's universe. The storyline was great and I love how JMS really put some thought into the time line and connected all of the dots so seamlessly. I'm really looking forward to these - it was one of those guilty pleasures I've had since I was like 13. The special effects look pretty good, although it isn't much of drastic change.
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B5 did this while people were extolling the virtues and sexiness of X-Files. The funny thing with X-Files is that nothing got answered really, did it? B5 is an example of good story-telling. For a season we were wondering about the Shadows. But JMS did answer who the Shadows were. We know Londo was going to be doomed. But we did actual see his fall. Watching B5 again really highlight how good the series was at conveying a story. One can only wish that Lost turns out the same way (fingers crossed)
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If only they could get together some, if not all of the crew, and do a final episode. That would be great.
Obviously Daniel Dae Kim is probably busy with Lost, but Peter Woodward is onboard already, Gary Cole is never THAT busy and the rest of the cast have barely been on tv since.
I just want them to finish it. -
because, quite frankly, season 5 sucked ass
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B5 was blown up to make way for the interspace onramp, Sheridan got old, fat, and went away, Earths sun went supernova. Good god, give it a rest. Stop flogging the dead idea and ket it go.
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...But then came back! Perhaps they should have ended Trek after ST II.
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JMS knew where he was going from the start. He stuck to his plan. And we got one of the best Sci Fi series ever.
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And release it in the soft-core "Seduction Cinema" style...the possibilities are endless!
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The first 4 years was great. (just like Star Trek V doesn't exist, neither does season 5 here)
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I concur. B5 was the best show ever, and paved the way for good modern television. It was the first shot in widescreen 16:9 format, and the first American show with a pre-planned major arc story. Now, you see these kinds of shows every day. Amazingly innovative, and unlike Star Trek series, it's withstood the test of time. Who knew President Clark would be basically the same guy Dubya turned out to be?!
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Several things happened to S5. The first half was pretty bad (except for "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari"). This can be explained by two things: (1) they weren't sure there would be an S5, so a lot of S5 episodes got accelerated into S4. "Intersections in Real Time" was supposed to be the S4 finale, so the "taking back Earth" arc would have started S5. (2) JMS's S5 notes were thrown out by a cleaning lady, making him have to throw together a lot of the beginning episodes quickly.The second half of S5, from "Day of the Dead" onwards, was frickin' awesome. That's 12 of the 22 episodes right there, plus "Very Long Night" is 13 solid episodes.
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...where it said, DIRECTLY under the photos:
"All photos and captions copyright 2006 & 2007 Synthetic Worlds Ltd. and J. Michael Straczynski.
* Since these photos are from the private collection of J. Michael Straczynski, we kindly request that none of these photos be reproduced, downloaded or posted anywhere else, including non-commercial & fan websites. Thank you for understanding." -
This is NOT a B5 movie. This is not even more of B5 series really, it is more of an anthology series (think Twilight Zone, etc.) of short sci-fi stories, except that they use the universe and characters of B5. The most interesting thing about this project is that it is a direct to DVD series, a first one of those in the US that I am aware of (don't quote me on that) I know some Anime has taken this route in Japan, but I would love to see this succeed in US. Between iTunes (and other online sales) and direct DVD sales, this may open up a whole new market to TV shows - a TV show that gets cancelled/renewed based on its actual popularity instead of some deranged idea of a marketing execs - what a concept!
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that seasons 1 -4 had such buildup with the Shadow War that it was hard to live up to that for Season 5. Is that really true that he had his notes thrown away?
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The reason for the drop in quality was because at the end of the third season, it appeared that the show might not get a fifth season. So he condensed seasons 4 and 5 into season 5.
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I'm fairly certain that when season 5 was on JMS swore that season 4 had not been a compressed version of what 4 and 5 were supposed to be. He swore that he always intended season 5 to be the way it turned out. (Of course I have no evidence of this except my memory of reading it on the newsgroups.)
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I agree, the Telepath nonsense was irritating, but once the Drakh turn up, it's all good.
I would, however, love to see Peter David's Centauri Prime trilogy adapted and CRUSADE given an ending. Why CRUSADE wasn't handled first, I have no idea. Was Daniel Dae Kim too busy sitting around and doing nothing while all those Jack/Sawyer/Kate episodes were being filmed for this season of LOST?
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I never watched it except for once. I hear that it incorporates "Captain Power" into it's mythos.
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Well, my memory of what JMS said this past Friday night at the NY Comic Con is pretty clear and he stated that he had compressed some plot elements, specifically the Earth Civil War arc into season 4 and then had to stretch out the telepath stuff (which would have started as a B plot in season 4) to fill out the A story in the first part of season 5.
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Feb 26, 2007 2:55:34 PM CST
Squashua - depends completely on your taste in sci-fi
by just pillow talk
I have not seen all of Firefly's one season, but I did see Serenity. I thought it was a decent show, but I find it hard to compare to say Trek or B5 since it did only have one season. I found B5 to be better than Trek since it had such a great arc and was a pretty pessimistic view on the future. I loved some of the characters on that show and how they were handled. I guess you can compare it to DS9 since shit went down with that series. TNG was of course very rosy and mostly stand-alone episodes.
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i hate all of you. thanks to your glaring unabashed praise of this series i watched the first four seasons and will never forgive you for the time i wasted.
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B5 is a dish best served slowly. The people who really fell in love with it were the people who watched an episode every time they came out, and had days, weeks or months to discuss them between. I've given my DVD set to folks who just haven't enjoyed it as much as other things, mostly I think because the scale of the show doesn't become as obvious when you're getting it all at once. There are entire races that die off, but when you were just introduced to them a few hours ago, the impact of that isn't quite as dramatic. Overall, the pacing is designed for a one-show-per week viewing over 5 years, but I wouldn't go to anything more than one show per day. Talk to friends, and review some of JMS's comments about the episodes on the Lurker's Guide in between.
Is B5 better than Trek? No. It's different. B5 wasn't episodic, and when it came out, that was a giant departure from Trek. The two can't really be compared. Watch B5 up to Signs and Portents in the first season, and you'll see what I mean. Everything changes, and anything that doesn't changes at the end of the season in Chrysalis.
Is B5 better than Firely? Nope. Firefly was a much better character piece, I thought, and much funnier. However, B5 had a more impressive back-story and I think it nailed the dramatic moments better. Firefly though, probably plays better on DVD.
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it just that JMS was worried that the show was going to get canceled so he wanted to finish the shadow war so we wouldn't be left in the dark(pardon the pun). I liked what happened to Londo in season 5 and it wrapped up his storyline well.
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....but it'll break my heart if this turns out to be of the same standard as Legend of the Rangers. If it matches the work in the series I'll be in seventh heaven. Kudos to JMS for that very fitting tribute to the late great Katsulas.
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is like sneaking in to the darkest most heavily fortified area of geek-istan and attempting to assassinate one of their high council members.but thank you harmil for at least being mildly objective.
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I liked it, but there's no way they are worth more than $20 or $25 a season. They cost nearly twice that. Not for me, thanks.
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Some of season 2, all of season 3 and season 4, and some of 5, were very strong. It is, however, time to say enough. B5 was good. Let it leave with class.
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on ever getting any more B5. This is great news, I just hope it's good. Loved the Series, but most of the movies really sucked. Of the Sci Fi gene fans I know, the ones that really never latched on to B5, probably only watched a handfull of episodes and couldn't get past some of the, awkward humor, and poor acting that was present, especially during the early seasons of B5. Too many filler episodes early on like "TKO" made it a little hard to keep watching. That's really Too bad, because they totally missed the scope of this awesome series. I Hope this new stuff doesn't take after some of the B5 movies like "Thirdspace" because I want this to succeed! B5 needs a comeback.
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That they haven't overexploited B5 by overdoing it.
Sure Crusade was a lost cause, but they learned from that. So instead of coming up with show after show after show ala Trek? They return to their favorite characters, every few years with direct to video/dvd movies, with better effects, tighter storylines and the same quality dialogue. I for one applaud them for their concerted effort in keeping B5's dignity intact. -
yes, beating up on B5 amongst this many fans is a stupid idea. Although that it took you 4 seasons worth to work out that you didn't like it - well, you had more staying power than me. I actually stopped watching after the episode in the first season where the doctor isn't allowed to treat some kid because his parents are like alien Jehovah's Witnesses or something. I just thought the show was crap and went back to Trek.
But then I heard from a friend how B5 actually had become amazing! It had a storyline than it remembered (unlike Trek), it dealt with an epic theme (unlike Trek, well except perhaps DS9), it asked questions such as who are we as humans, what do we want, where are we going, and what will we wear. Yes! B5 showed there is a future where men don't have to wear neck-ties to look respectable (after 12 years of school where I had to, this means a lot to me).
Most of all, B5 cared about its characters. It knew when to use them to best effect, when to let them go, and other than the love story between Sheridan & Delen (which I never bought - but it's a small gripe) it was all good stuff. The characters drove the story as much as the story drove them to take the actions they did.
I for one am glad I watched it. It's my favorite sci-fi show ever (BSG just isn't going to beat it I'm afraid) and even with season 5, Crusade, Thirdspace, The Soul Movie, and LOTR (Rangers, not Rings) - the first 4 seasons of B5 show what a sci-fi TV show can do even with a rushed ending (it's TV after all). Now to go back and answer some of the unanswered questions (like can I have a Great Machine from Epsilon 3 please. actually, I'll take two) -
Why should I fork out the money for the current DVDs when Warners will release High-Def versions eventually.
I could be wrong, but I think the indivual season sets run $80-100. -
Just curious.
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Sure, I liked most of it, but I don't understand my fellow geeks adoration of it. The cheese was quite abundent.I'll be renting this for sure.
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You mean farscape right? I bought the entire B5 set for £160 thats all 5 series, all 6 features and crusade. compared to Farscape and its £300 for a season pricetag
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Here's a quote from JMS, the creator: "I don't usually comment on this, but...if I had known *with absolute certainty* that there would be a season 5, then season 4 would have ended with 418, "Intersections in Real Time." So you only pull 4 episodes forward, really. You'll understand when you see it." So, 5 episodes that would have started S5 were in fact in S4, and they probably wouldn't have been so rushed, so they might have been seven or eight episodes.Here's his quote on his notes being thrown out (www.JMSNews.com): "(And on top of all that, my detailed notes on the first half of the season were tossed out by the hotel staff that moved my stuff from one room to another in Blackpool without checking with me. I had to recreate
stuff on the one hand and angle it all off in a different direction on the other, both at the same time.)"B5 had some filler, but very very little, especially in seasons 2, 3, and 4...and most filler episodes had important moments that couldn't be skipped.I hope that answers questions asked above. Can you tell I'm a bit of a maniacal fan? :-)Finally, you can get the complete B5 series for $220 at Amazon ($45 per season)...still a bit high compared to other DVDs, but better than the $100 per season it started at. -
I am me, and I want more B5.
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but it seriously went down hill after season 4 and we all know why. When I first heard about this project I wasn't particularly over the moon (more of the post-season 4 crap I thought) but that image of B5, with the ships surrounding it, gave me fkn goosebumps!! I've got seasons 1-4 on DVD already but if they EVER decide to go back and make special editions, re-doing all the SFX using the state of the art CGI depicted above, just as they did back then, then I'll happily buy the whole lot from beginning to end all over again! I thought the Shadows were pretty creepy first time around. With those moody images they'll give the kiddies nightmares for weeks!! Oh, and BTW, I couldn't give a flying F about Captain Lochley and the ISA!! I want SHADOWS dammit!! Make a note of that for volume 2! ;-D
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That's kind of good if it's true, I had been under the impression that they didn't much appreciate the show as a viable franchise. That's certainly what fans said in the conventions back around the days when season 5 was on. I'll be happy to see some new stuff, but I do think it's been too long and I without Biggs and particularly Katsulas, the show isn't going to be what it was ever again. And I'm still kind of burned by the let down that was the B5 TNT movies, Crusade, and Legend of the Rangers. If any of that had been great, I'd feel better, but Crusade wasn't the tragic loss that Firefly was to Whedon fans. Babylon 5's Season 5 by the way was a drop in quality much the same way seasons 6/7 of Buffy were a drop--some things still worked great, but there was a noticable glitch in the whole thing. Also, Babylon 5 had some awkward moments that I never understood. Sometimes they'd use a really bad piece of acting from a guest star or even a regular (sorry Pat Tallman had some awful scenes), and the FX were often beautiful but also distracting for being so obviously CG. None of that diminished the greatness of the stories though, it was epic in a way that nothing else has been except for BSG and some of DS9 (which will always be called a copycat, even though it wasn't). If you started with Star Trek--skip Voyager please--you'd go from there to Babylon 5, to Farscape, a brief stop at Firefly, and on to the new Battlestar Galactica and that'd be the flow of great TV space opera for the last 20 years. Stargate SG-1 is in the "fine, if you don't want to think while you watch" bin with Hercules and Xena, but at least it's more watchable than Earth: Final Conflict, or Mutant X, or Andromeda. Ug, what crappy shows. It's just sad that many will group Babylon 5 with that and never know what a great science fiction series it was. I hope this is the beginning of it's rebirth. It could be on the visual scale of the Star Wars Prequels but with some actual substance if it ever got the proper funding!
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Will miss those guys greatly as they made some of the best sci-fi characters. Even Bruce did great.
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Season One was OK, but Michael O'Hare's acting left a little to be desired. Season 5 was suckaducka, absolutely awful. Only one of the movies was any good. The two followup attempt at spin-offs, Crusade and Legend of the Rangers were dreadful. I don't hold much hope for this new stuff. Sounds like more bad Season 5 crap.
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B5 and DS9 were on at the same time, and I liked them both about the same. As for Firefly, I love that show, but who knows how it would have turned out. But I'd have to say it's my favorite between the three. Around this same time, Millennium was also out, and that was an incredible show as well. Those were the good old days.
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Sorry to keep posting. Just so you know, you can get all seasons used on Amazon for 35 to 25 a season. And for you people defending season 5: Thirteen bucks! I think that settles the issue of how good that season was.
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Its a shame it was only 5 seasons.
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Granted it had some glitches (ex. terrible music during the battle scenes) and the change in the Drakh look was HORRIBLE but I still liked some of the characters. As far as the TV movies go, the Earth-Minbari War was probably the only really good one.
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For me what hurt the show was the cast members coming and going. While Boxlightner (sp?) was much better than the first guy, the other changes with the psychics coming and going and Claudia Christian leaving really hurt the show. If one of these followup dvds could include Claudia Christian's character I would be happy. On the other side, it did make me think of Walter Koenig as someone other than Chekov, so that has to count for something.
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It just never got the chance. Imagine if B5 had ended before we got our first glimpse of the Shadow vessels (and was shown out of order on top of that), you probably woulda written the show off as crap. Crusade's 12 episodes (we'll ignore the TNT-mandated abortion known as War Zone) are miles better in quality than the comparable episodes of B5 season 1, and knowing what little we do about unfilmed scripts and plans for the show, it would have ended up being just as a solid a show as B5 was. They just never got a chance to reveal the plotlines about black ops Earthforce projects using Shadow technology and Galen's mandate to track said technology down (as the Technomages's tech is also Shadow-based, as they were once the Shadow-equivilent to the Vorlon's telepaths). With exception to the doctor (who did really suck), the cast was a pretty good mix of interesting characters. Gideon, Max, Galen & Matheson are easily up there with the main B5 crew.
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I'd reccomend folks watch Crusade in the following order(based on the JMS sci-fi order, but slightly modified to spread certain things out and to smooth over the Lochley content)- it really creates some interesting character arcs otherwise lost, so long as you can ignore the uniform switching issue (which is really unavoidable): 1) Racing the Night, 2) The Memory of War, 3) The Needs of Earth, 4) The Long Road, 5) Vistitors From Down the Street, 6) The Well of Forever, 7) Ruling From the Tomb, 8) Patterns of the Soul, 9) Each Night I Dream of Home, 10) The Path of Sorrows, 11) The Rules of the Game, 12) Appearances and Other Deceits.
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I watched Crusade. It did not work for me. I thought the overall acting was uninspired, or ham-fisted in the case of Galen. You can say it was leading to great stuff, but without that great stuff actually being produced all you have is unrewarding prologue. Sure, if B5 had only the first season I never would have liked it. But it had more. Crusade only had 12 episodes. I didn't like them. I can't say the show was good based on what it might have been. After B5 it was a huge letdown. I do, however, respect other people's right to like Crusade.
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I can understand folks not caring for Crusade based on what was to come- though, as the B5 example points out, it shows why people are longing to see a continuation of the show, so that story gets it's chance. Crusade's not perfect- TNT interferred with it too much for it to have been, and it's obviously more action/adventure in nature than B5 was, but I still found it a fairly enjoyable run of episodes of generally higher quality than most genre shows' first 12 episodes (sure, it's no Firefly or BSG, but it's still on the upper end of the scale in that regard).
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Totally in agreement with you on Seasons 2-4 rocking, and Season 1 being a good start, but Michael O'Hare stiff "acting" looks bad on rewatch. The "one good movie" you refer to is "In the Beginning". If only it would have been given a bigger budget and a theatrical release -- who knows how many more people might have been pulled into the B5 universe?
P.S. "Call to Arms" was pretty good, too, but Thirdspace was garbage.
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They just dropped the ball in the final season. Too many story threads left open, and too many episodes that did nothing address them. If they had done that final season right, the series would have ruled over all others. So close... so very close.
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I mean the special effects were done using Amigas with Video Toasters, and these effects looked better than the shots from Star trek, which let's face it reused the same bloody shots over and over again. And this was a time when ST episodes were costing 1 million each. I love the Dominion Wars in DS9, but that only happened because B5 was crafting an excellent narrative, while DS9 was really awful in first few years. Anyone that wants to gripe about season 5 need to redirect that criticism to the white suites that constantly threatened to cancel B5, causing JMS to accelerate the pace of his storytelling.
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That was a once in a lifetime offer, we'll never see it on the big screen now. I'm not saying it would have been good, but I would love to see a shadow ship soar across an IMAX screen. The made-for-tv movies kind of sucked ('cept Minbari war), but I'll buy this DVD. It's been long enough that I'd shell out the $20 out of curiosity, if nothing else.
I wasn't a huge fan of season 5, it's the only season I didn't buy, but it did have some good episodes. I like where Garibaldi ended up. As for the first couple seasons, they were necessary for the story. People talk about Lost and how you need to be patient, but we all know it won't be as smooth as B5 when all is said in done. In B5, a season 1 filler episode might throw in a line that produces an ah-hah moment in season 4. And looking back, you can tell it was intentional placed from the beginning. And even the filler episodes were a breath of fresh air compared to Trek. That's why I got into it to begin with. Only after seeing "Signs and Portents" and "Chrysalis" did I get a taste of what I was signing on for. Season 3 is probably the best season of TV ever, of any show, and it's worth plodding through the earlier eps to get to it..
The Clark storyline does bear an eerie resemblance to Bush's post 9/11 world. How could you not have been reminded of the nightwatch when homeland security was first proposed? In fact, didn't the nightwatch evolve out of the homeguard? Either way, I picture Bush circling the letters "scorched earth" in "the ascension of the ordinary man", during the waning days of his administration. And the mood of the public in the show during that time so perfectly matches the mood of people now. I even read the other day that five high-level generals are planning on resigning when Bush invades Iran. Maybe they were inspired by this show. :) -
Other than some really shitty set design, the show was pretty damn good. Tell me, why in the ever loving hell would any technologically advanced society ever build a door like the one pictured? They wouldn't. It's just plain stupid.
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B5 was good at shifting between the Personal, Global, and even Galactic issue with seriousness and plausibility. This is shown when Sheridan goes to Zha'adun. With the fate of the war on the line, what do the Shadows offer him? A planet? Riches? Nope. Rather, they offer him his wife back. That same thing is echoed with a lot of characters. Even Zak Allen who initially espouses the purported ideals of Night Watch, experiences a transformation once he realizes what is really happening. Storytelling-wise B5 blows Lost out of the water. It is good to have mysteries. However, these questions need resolution before the audience ceases to care. B5 provided that
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I watched all 5 seasons of B5 on DVD three years ago. The show balanced galactic and very personal issues in ways I'd never seen on television before. Despite its production shortcomings, B5 delivered some well-written storylines and badass battles.
I never saw any of the movies, so I can't comment on them.
It's cool to read the new B5 movies are being filmed right next to the Battlestar Galactica studios. I'm sure JMS has watched Galactica closely, so it's cool to think some cross-pollination might occur. I hope so. Ron Moore and JMS are both geeks, but they're hard-nosed geeks who know how to write and produce. I'll probably buy the new B5 DVDs just to see. -
Consider that there actually WAS a B5 theatrical film ("The Memory of Shadows") in preproduction about 4 or 5 years ago until a combination of Richard Biggs' death, financial backers falling through, and fan reaction to studio pressure to recast fan favorite characters like Galen resulted in the project never reaching production. After a couple years past, WB came back to JMS about a B5 movie, which brings us to where we are now. It's actually a smart move on JMS's part- he can practice his directing craft on TLT so that when B5 eventually does make the jump to the big screen, he can remain in charge of things (as directors have the control in films that producers weild in TV) and make the transition himself as well.
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Funny how you knew I was referring to In the Beginning. It was great Shakespearean tragedy, man. The whole story arc of Lando and G'Kar was amazing. It was the glue of the series. The way their characters developed was incredible. I didn't even like either of them in the beginning. Now I think they were the best actors in the series.
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Bab5 was better than most Star Trek, but I have to qualify that. Star Trek, for all it's flaws, got better acting from their peripheral characters. Many of the minor actors in Bab 5, and some guest stars, were just plain bad. To me, DS9 at it's best pretty closely followed Bab 5 at its best. Another thing Bab often failed at was humor. Aside from Zathrus, and some Lando moments, their attempts at humor fell flat. Remember Sinclair telling Sheridan that they were like Butch and Sundance? My God, that was a terrible moment in a really thrilling episode. But mostly I agree with you. Voyager and Enterprise were awful. TNG hasn't aged well in some cases, but Stewart is such a class act. It has some great episodes too.
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HAHAHA!
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This talkback is dead. Considering the lack of activity here, I'd say B5 on DVD won't do too well.
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It wasn't Sci-fi but TNT, the show was cancelled by TNT before it even aired the first episode. Lexx and Farscape have no baring on the situtation whatsoever.
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It was late when I wrote that, sue me ;)
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1. Her fate was not mentioned in Sleeping in Light; JMS has stated that TNT offered them the chance to re-shoot it with MS SCOGGINS but he declined;
2. Whenever anyone has asked JMS about Captain Lochley's fate, he has refrained from answering.
And one of the two episodes will deal with Captain Lochley ten years after Objects at Rest.
Think about that for a moment.
P.S. To Banshee 7 and everyone else: I feel ya, but its important to remember that EVERYONE's all time favorite genre show is EQUALLY the best genre show ever. The X-Files is the best show ever, and so is B5, and so is TNG, and so is Farscape. That's the way it has to be. :) -
Love the show and will buy any new tales they produce on DVD. Have to say, though, that Lochley is the least interesting character to me in the entire Babylon 5 pantheon. I would also rate Scoggins as the worst actor of the lot. Oh well. I'll happily watch even her story out of curiosity due to the updated effects, etc. Here's hoping for a tale more akin to "In the Beginning" or "Call to Arms" than "Thirdspace" or "River of Souls"
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