Cool News
Has James Cameron Discovered The Final Resting Place of Jesus Christ?
Hey folks, Harry here... as the New York Comic Con comes to a close this Sunday - and the Oscars wane on into the twilight hours - James Cameron is apparently going to be holding a press conference in New York where allegedly he will be unveiling the Coffins of Jesus, Mary and Mary Magdalene... apparently with the bodies inside.
Um. Yeah. So, while he's been prepping his return to fictional filmmaking, he's been working on a new documentary... one that claims to have the bones of Jesus Christ on display. I'm not real sure how anyone is going to prove that this Jesus is THE Jesus - short of dipping a bone in a goblet of water and it turning to wine, but prepare for one holy heck of alot of publicity, hatred, hope and vile.
Finding the physical remains of THE Jesus Christ - if somehow proven authentic - I'm not real sure what this will mean - ultimately revealing the body of Christ and apparently His Son... could very well mean... well whatever one can interpret it to mean. Very curious how this will play out Monday. There's apparently a documentary and more - which you read about over at TIME's Blog on the Middle East.
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maybe the bones of jesus will do that cool metal morphing thing like in T2 and the abyss!
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The Jews are like the guy at the David Copperfield show who has to ruin it for everyone by yelling out how the trick was performed.
Anyway, I'm no Bible scholar but do they really contend that Jebus' actual body was re-animated as opposed to his soul rising to the heavens? Because if it was the former then they have a word for that (see the collected works of George Romero).
If we do get Christ DNA, clone that biatch, Kahless style.
Anyway, could Cameron get back to making movies where people die at the hands of aliens, cyborgs and secret agents? It would be a sorely needed lemon wedge for the harsh tequila shot that was Titanic.
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he's gotta be nuts going after the christians. Cameron is gonna get crucified!
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is it april 1 already?
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I don't even care if its true or not, the basic idea of it is so delightfully insane.
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Who did he compare the DNA to?
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I kinda thought the guy was going a bit loopy before Titanic came out. Now he's doing an all-out "Britany" on us. It like if I came foreward and claimed to have discovered the staff that once belonged to Moses.
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He used SkyNet's time machine to send himself back. You'd think he'd wait until Easter to announce this. :)
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Is this a joke? And by the way CTU Mole -- in the New Testament Jesus was "raised from the dead" -- i.e., that was his real body, holes in hands and all. It's very clear about it. (So yeah, go ahead and call him a zombie if you want to.)
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My world has come to a crashing halt. To find Jesus' remains negates Easter. To find something so sacred must mean that James Cameron is the Messiah. J.C. = J.C. The end times are here!
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let the media circus begin
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really they do!!
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No really . . .what the deuce. I'm assuming I now dreaming about AICN in my sleep and this is not real. Soon I will wake up by thinking I am falling and my body will do one of those whole little jumpy moments
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the Easter Bunny less relevant
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Good one CTU Mole! TNG rules
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Action and intrigue will ensue. It has BEGUN!!....
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This is some kind of retarded, misguided publicity stunt. Cameron's research is based on the 27-year-old discovery of a cave with ten stone caskets. 20 years go by, and finally "experts" decipher the names on the tombs -- Jesua son of Joseph, Mary, and some more, including a "son of Jesua". The thing is -- the whole thing was basically disregarded because (A) all the names were extremely common Jewish names for the day and (B) Jesus's "father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family." Now Cameron comes along saying he's got "DNA tests and archeological evidence" that it's Jesus Christ. DNA tests based on what?? It will be reeeeeally interesting to actually hear what Cameron has to say about all of this.
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This is like the plot of Another Roadside Attraction.
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This is going to be one heck of a funny circus.
I love Biblical archeology but I dunno, I like mine to be based in actual science. -
I don't see this shaking up much of anything, Harry. St. Paul said, "Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what is seen?" A few bones in a casket, with or without DNA evidence isn't going to suddenly get rid of that hope for people who believe. Besides, the OJ trial showed that we as a society put no special stock in DNA evidence. Hehe.
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...and he said, "There will be a thorough investigation. However, I have no further comment at this time".Hold onto your butts; the world just got a little stranger.
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This is one bold motherfucker. Watch your back, Jimmy. Also, I predict the Islamist will latch on to this as proof Christianity is a farce.
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Because Jesus's body ascending into heaven goes hand in hand with the story of his resurrection. If there's a body, that casts serious doubt that he was ever resurrected. Therefore no Easter. Or was that sarcasm?
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Jim: don't do it, man. Whatever you think the intention is here, people are only going to remember the sacrilege part. Whatever you do, don't fuck with people's religion. It's career and reputational suicide. Stick with aliens, big boats and Tom Arnold.
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Ha ha ha, this IS the best AICN story ever!!!
Tom hanks in... "The James Cameron Code" -
Why are so many people out to destroy religion. Let people have their beliefs in peace. I mean first off, how does he think he's going to prove it's really Jesus?
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No Christian will ever look at any evidence.
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Anybody?
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Anybody?
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So they found a casket marked "Jesus". Give me a half hour, I can drive to the county lockup and find a dozen Jesii. If I go to the rich area, I'll find another half dozen mowing lawn.
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Mark my words, tomorrow it will be "Brittey who?"
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Forget this nonsense. Forget Avatar. Rescue the man of steel from Bryan Singer. Have him fight Doomsday, die, come back. There, that can be your Jesus story. The movie would gross Spidey numbers.
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Freak. Add this new "original body of Jesus Christ" to the tons of "real bodies of Jesus" shopped around in Middle Ages. If all those Jesuseseseseses were collected, the real Jesus would have to be bigger than Galactus. And ain't nobody bigger than Galactus! Oh, and did I say Camoron is a freak?
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From the desk of Nicholas Buckingham IV,
This news of Mr. Cameron's discovery is in conflict with Nostradamus's predictions that Christ's body would be found in the year 2027 in a Reno, Nevada garage and later sold to an anonymous buyer on craigslist for an undisclosed amount.
For more news on this subject, don't click the link below, as it will only provide you with reliable journalism:
http://www.buckinghamonline.com
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where did this story come from? is this the first time it's popped up in the news? i mean, didn't cameron, like, talk to harry a week ago about stuff? hasn't he been interviewed repeatedly about avatar and all that stuff? and no mention of this bizzarity? or am i blind?
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Watch out James, you'll have the Rosicrucians on your ass...Fuck I love this real life Indiana Jones shit, just don't get yourself killed befor completing Avatar!
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the idea is that Christ was a normal guy.. was married and had children. later, in ROME, Emperor Constantine whose Empire was being divided by religion, decided to make an amalgamation of all the religions into 1 endorsed by the state. so Jesus was the basis, but alot of Egyptian and Celtic stuff got thrown in the mix, among others. Osiris was the source of the resurrection myth...
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I hear Camoron wanted to take a sample of God's DNA, but apparently God has a fear of needles. Specifically, he said something about an eye of a needle.
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Visit the Interior Parts of the Earth; by Rectification Thou Shalt Find the Hidden Stone
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Wow, I can't wait to see how this plays out.
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This will surly be the largest talkback EVER.
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Aren't 2000 year old unpreserved skeletons usually just dust? -
Osiris was a resurrection myth, yeah, but there were still plenty of Jesus-worshipping Jews (not Christians yet) who believed in his resurrection. (My details are a little fuzzy too, but Osiris may be where they adopted the Dec. 25th date from.) Constantine did centralize an array of stuff into a state-recognized religion, but Christians were still known as a different sect before that happened -- it wasn't quite as rash as "an amalgamation of all the religions into 1 endorsed by the state". But it's all kind of dependent on interpretation...I took a class last semester on the historical Jesus, and generally the origins of Christianity involve a whole lot of guesswork and assumption.
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that exodus doc was pretty sweet. lookin forward to seein all this play out
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I know because I reviewed it for this site.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/8655
Apparently it's now being remade as a publicity stunt. -
Osiris wasn't where Dec. 25th came from...that was the birthday of the "Unconquered Sun" pagan god.
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The story reads like Mid-East hyperbole, so until I hear Jimmy make the claim himself, I ain't buying the stories overall message. BUT - if the story is right - we can all mark Feb. 26 as the day Cameron's career came to an end. IF the article is accurate, he's done, done, done. Which is why I can't believe he'd be as stupid as the article claims.
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This has to be a joke. And in 2000 year I am sure if there were any bones, that someone would have done something with them in some war, etc.
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Religious ramifications aside, with todays technology would they be able to apply the "CSI" techniques (for lack of a better word) to determine causes of death, etc? I'm sure it depends on how well preserved the remains are...
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its a shame that "love thy enemy" turned into all this.
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SNAKES ON A TRAIN!!!
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"Shyamalan wins 'Avatar' title battle."
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because it is a lie to say that religions bring peace. religion is just about the most evil thing ever.
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those debunking Christ's existence are taking a leap of faith in doing so. There aren't enough "facts" for or against his ulutimate end and goals. So faith leads both sides. And wasn't Jesus a Galileen? So, this tomb...found in Jerusalem...wouldn't fly with his humbler background or his parents' assumed address. The original archeologist who found this tomb debunks this story himself saying the family is middle class and all have common names of the time (and it's not the first Jesus, son of Joseph tomb to be found, anyway). But again, people will do what they want. Anything for a buck, right?
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don't blame the gun, blame the triggerman. it is the humans who bring war, weilding religion as their shield. The written message is lost in the spoken hatred of the soul.
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Feb 24, 2007 7:36:10 PM CST
JRKerr, you totally don't "get" the whole Israel thing
by s0nicdeathmonkey
Israel is our proxy. they take a lot of hits that we might otherwise. they fight people we tell them too so that we don't have to get too much blood on our hands in the open. Israel is much more useful to us than you seem to realize.
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God.. You are Not the Father! God runs for the stage with arms raised yelling obscenities. James Cameron sobs uncontrollable in Maury's arms. The next episode James is back with Buddha and Allah for another round of tests....
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Except, the exact opposite.
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rumor has it Mother Goose was actually Mother Gander. Can you support this claim or debunk it?! The myspace and youtube communities are waiting with bated breath! I think a live, online autopsy is in order!
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Wow, who trumps who in that one?
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History's repeating itself. Check it out:
http://www.geocities.com/faithmedia/resources/webdyer.html
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It had Antonio Banderas looking longinly at a skinny bond girl, but not doing anything because he was a Priest... And Derek Jacobi killed himself, but in the end it wasn't real, and there were some terrorists... Good stuff... Why is Cameron remaking it?
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...when it came to the faith. He used the faith for political purposes (like certain politicians do today).
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. . . Audrey Tautou! Don't you guys ever watch the movies?
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Awesome comment.
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I saw that..."The Body". Interesting concept. By the way, I left your badge at the airport. You can pick it up at lost and found...Jack Walsh.
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It matches, and sales of turquoise clothes goes through the roof...
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Avatar will never be made, cameron will be struck down by god tommorrow.
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that is like saying that you should believe that my car is red because a person that you know for a fact is a liar and is responsible for many, many of the local economy's woes tells you so.
it doesn't work that you should believe in everything unless it is disproven. -
implying that Cameron found this tomb is like saying he discovered the Titanic because he made a bloated stupid movie about it. this has been (as people have noted) a disputed archeological claim for dozens of years. Cameron is just trying to milk it for publicity. please don't misrepresent the facts, AICN, to make it seem like he's the brains behind this. as always, he's simply the bankroll behind the latest suck at the teat.
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Tom Hanks comes forward as Cameron's lead counsel, and describes how he can explain everything in about five minutes but first, "Get me to a library, fast!".
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When I first read this headline I though James had gone nutters and was making a film to push Christian propaganda...to push a Hoax set forth by the church like the shroud. But hes doing the opposite and is debunking a thousands years old religion...What a champ! If Jesus ever existed I have always thought of him as just a mere man who formed a cult that was ignored by all and after his death his life and story was blown out of proportion in order to control large masses of people.
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sure, Jesus himself (the character in the bible) preached peace. But Christianity has never been a religion based around peace. Islam has never been a religion based around peace. Hell, Mohammad didn't even preach peace. Judaism has many warlords as heroes. the messages in the religion are so totally muddled and hypocritical from the beginning that the whole thing is mess. I can't speak for Hinduism as I've never studied it, and Buddhism seems pretty okay, but the Judeo-Christian trifecta is just a mess.
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You are making one of the biggest budgeted films ever and you now want to piss off half of the worlds population.
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I've got to agree with a lot of people here, he could forever be remembered as an Indiana Jones nutcase to a lot of people and sacrilegious to a hell of a lot more.
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It could be used to place the most likely place of birth for the remains, I suppose... somehow.
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He knows how to keep his career in Hollywood.
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are you an anti-Semite or something? why is every one of your posts about "the Jews"
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It's too soon!
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That has to be the most convoluted, implausible analogy. And what would lying and the local economy have to do with any of of the relations I discussed? Please go back and read my statement again. You have taken the liberty of adding your own assumptions into your argument. Also, I never said one should believe in all unless it is disproven. What you cannot argue is that neither side has all of the facts, which lead both to rely on their faith to solidify their individual arguments. Therefore, at this juncture, it's an unwinnable argument on paper. Because the facts remain clouded. Faith rules, whether in the positive or the negative when weighing the facts of this case. So "victory" remains in the realm of personal opinion.
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Doesn't he use his old film titles for his documentaries? What's this one going to be called "The Terminator of Faith?"
I was hoping this was some kind of huge viral marketing ploy, but I can't see how Jesus fits into Avatar or Alita. But seriously, I wouldn't put it past him. -
for the subjugation of many groups (women chief amongst them). Though, rereading it, that wasn't the best example. my point was cynicism is the opposite of faith, not the same thing.
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This should shut up all the superchristians that think George and Jenna Bush is the saviors of the United States.
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You know it makes sense.
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if Cameron could prove this stupid fairy tale wrong unequivicaly. Then fools could live their lives instead of being scared all the time by a fictional book.
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...don't know who DanniLynn's father is!??!?!!!!
But seriously, chimps evolving using spears, finding Christ's body... rough week for us Christians. But then again, we don't believe Science is real, so what do we care about DNA testing. It's all a bunch of magic and bullshit anyway. -
I eagerly await his evidence, and look forward to laughing at it along with everyone else...except Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, of course.
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Holla.
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He's gonna be fucking stoked.
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It proves that Jesus existed, but was not resurrected. Very interesting Cameron...so are all you little Christian haters going to at least acknowledge Jesus existed? Of course you're not.
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i imagine the DNA testing would be to corroborate the names on the 10 tombs family ties... was Mary the mother of Jesus, was Judah the son of Magdalene and Jesus, if so this would confirm that the history and the physical evidence match...
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I think they should settle the patenity issue of Anna Nicole Smith's baby on Maury.
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I hear ya. But again, it's like the law. People like to twist it to get out of crimes or commit them. For example, the Sanhedrin applied sublaws to the Ten Commandments. I think that what it comes down to is, even if they did prove God's existence or complete lack thereof...people would still find something to use to justify their behavior. So your point on the cynical side of faith is well taken.
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Feb 24, 2007 8:53:21 PM CST
of course the individuals involved in religion arent
by s0nicdeathmonkey
all bad. though, I would maintain that those in power are usually corrupt. not just in religion, but in society as a whole. But, the bible was written by men (and I don't mean that in the collective sense). Consequently, it falls to their bias'. like, Eve being Adam's "helper" and subordinate rather than his partner. the bible says all sorts of things that I just can't agree with morally. Yes, you can live a meaningful and fulfilling life as a Christian. I deeply respect many Christians. But, the teachings of Jesus are not and have never been that of the church.
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Does finding Jesus' body count as a second coming?
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Deep down, I can't shake the programing. Intellectually, I know that it is all silly but at night, when something really good, or truly awful happens, I end up praying again.
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Dude. Lay off the Goth music and go out and get some sunshine. Then go out and look at the stars and marvel at the grand design before your eyes. Then stop trying to sound so dark and brooding, it's only making people laugh.
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what could DNA testing prove? this is one of the most bizarre stories ever.
this will just be a huge circus if he's really doing this... what a waste. -
"But, the teaching of Jesus are not and have never been that of the church." Good thing you're an expert theologian, historian, sociologist, and moralist all roled into one. I'm glad you are able to grace us with that deep and penetrating conclusion...Thank you! Thank you! You have shown me the truth and I'm going to change my ways....Wait, are you preaching s0nicmonkey? You shouldn't do that.
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Was simply how Christians got pagans to more easily accept Christianity. Politics. As for Cameron's deal, sounds to me a lot like a person who's desperately looking for evidence to verify his preconceived notions. Yeshua (in other words, Jesus...more accurately "Joshua") was a common name amongst Jews. Even more laughable is the claim of "DNA evidence". At best they can claim that the DNA may have been from a male of Jewish descent who lived two to three thousand years ago. I'd hardly call it proof.
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that I have years of training in the field of theology and have taken many college courses in logic, ethics and sociology. All of which I got at least a 95% in. Also, I read Hebrew, well, not so much anymore. But there was a time when I was semi-fluent in written Hebrew. (though I always had trouble with the missing vowels).
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That is all.
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I doubt that Cameron is a believer, although stranger things have happened.
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"Hey, we've found a family with the same name!" Am I right in thinking that's the crux of the argument? Oh, and if you really believe that religion is the problem then you forget that in most "religious" wars it is simply a tool of nation states that want to dominate the others. If they didn't have religion to use they would have found another reasons, like survival of the fittest or competition for goods and services, to wage war and subjugate others.
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This is based on some obscure BLOG? We're supposed to believe Cameron would sacrifice his career with something this lame?
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I think it's important to note that Christ never wrote anything down. I don't believe Moses, Abraham, Buddha, or Mohamed did either...but isn't that what man does? Write things down? I think it's a cop out to say it was written by man. All we believe, proven or opinion was written by mankind...so the door swings both ways. Congrats on the good grades. But c'mon...Logic doesn't count. Everyone knows you took logic for the easy A. All you had to do was write a paper on why God was phony and the atheist "logic" teacher gave you an A. The best part about logic class was the fact that you never had to prove anything! I mean, we're all just brains in jars dreaming up our existence anyway, right?!! Man, obsequiously themed electives were great for boosting the GPA!!!
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just way to wierd
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James Cameron is afflicted with the Stigmata! It happened right after he announced he was, "King of the World". When he awoke, there was a note next to the bed that said, "It's all yours, James. Good luck! Your friend, Jesus. P.S. Titanic was amazing! Better than Cats!"
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Oh, right! They don't exist. Good thing the religious folks care enough about others, huh?
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Note that the first Gospel has a different date for the crucifixion than the rest. Also, there are a plethora of historical inaccuracies (like the Jews needing permission to use the death penalty, using crucifixion instead of stoning, Pilate celebrating a Jewish holiday, Pilate letting a prisoner go with no authority to do so ect.) So there are 2 options. either men, who most likely never met Jesus (because of anachronisms in the stories) wrote it. G-d is imperfect and wrote it. the latter makes sense only if G-d is actually a solipsist.
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and Jesus never existed.
Deal with it. -
...if at the press event, Jesus will come alive and try to take out Sarah Conner? Where's Kyle Reese when you need him? (Oh yeah, he's chillin with Zombies in Planet Terror)
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with the professor and liked taking classes from him. It was surprisingly in depth. Truth charts can be pretty hard. My teacher was actually a deeply religious man too. Did you ever take a logic class? because the way it was taught to me was very similar to a math class.
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Seems Cameron had made the initial announcement Friday, standing on the porch of a home in Guatemala City.
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the Romans did. Pilate didn't celebrate the Jewish "holiday", he simply acknowledged their observances at that time and used the release as a good will gesture. It's important to note that he was a local governor. He was also looking to keep the peace. And Roman documents at least partially corroborate the existence of Jesus...I don't know about Pilate. Also, the Gospel of John is considered, in Catholicism at least, to be the center of the compass in terms of Jesus' teachings, considering that he was actually there...though specific dates are rarely cited. I think you're missing the point that it's about the message. The mission. Historians don't deny his existence. It's more about what happened when Jesus' life as a human came to an end.
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You thought Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch or Mel/Kramer blurting out Jew hate were bad for their careers....
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Well...at least your career will be if this shit's true.
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I'm breaking balls, dude. Yeah, it was like taking algebra...algebra with philosophy as a guide. My comparison earlier is really suited more as a descriptor fro Philosophy 101. The professor I had was an atheist and was always trying to subtley slip in that God didn't exist during her lessons. I didn't have a problem with that if she stated that was her opinion...but she never did. And never gave the other side. If you want to argue, you have to respect both sides of the argument, right? Anyway...ball breaking. It's what I do.
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is when the professor's your good friend. Easy A, boost the GPA! heh heh heeeeh
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Guess what man, a lot of atheists or what ever you want to call someone who does not follow the word of Jesus do not deny that Jesus existed only that he was the greatest con artist ever. Why would a con artist go through all that just to die horribly you say? Power and historical immortality are the greatest "wealth" anyone can gain in there life. Remember much of what was ever written down was not included in the bible because it did not vibe well for the compilers. Who knows what was destroyed.
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There's no way to prove who those bodies are, just like there's no way to prove what the grail is (or where it is), just like there's no way to prove any of this stuff. There's a reason for that. Two, really. From the scientific side, we're looking at a 2000-year-old issue from an era with virtually no documentation and -zero- evidence storage. The Egyptians at least kept records and tended to shove a lot of stuff into tombs. Jews then (as Jews now) just don't do that, so all we have are a couple of name tags and some very old bones. The second reason is spiritual: these things are a matter of faith. You can try proving a matter of faith all you like, the whole point is that faith is specifically the substance of things NOT seen or proven. Anyway. This kind of talk is oh so popular these days what with that book and Tom Hanks' silly hairdo, so I'm sure the shitstorm is just getting started. The fact remains that neither 'side' of the issue can claim proof or disproof, and this sort of show belongs along the southern Arizona highways beside 'The Thing?' and various gaffed 'mermen'. Make a new movie, James, stop wasting our time with this P.T.Barnum stuff.
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Cameron got a DNA sample from God. He met him at the Oscars and shook his hand and collected some epethilials. And he used those in the test as paternal DNA.
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What is it about Christ bashers that make them think that SIMPLY claiming to be a skeptic AUTOMATICALLY makes them intellectually superior? They constantly say Christians believe in a myth, that Christians ignore facts, while at the same time they make claims that have no basis in fact (like 99% of wars were caused by religion, or that Christianity was formed to control the masses). Where do they get their facts? Look, whether you're religious or not, there is enough historicity and material available out there about Christ and Christianity that gives it as much (or more) validity than other events of antiquity. However, because Christ is a religious figure, somehow his claims and life are subject to closer scrutiny than secular figures like Alexander and Caesar--yet no one calling themselves intellectual dare QUESTION the existence of either Alexander or Caesar. Based on purely academic standards of ancient history, there is actually MORE material to validate the existence of Jesus, than there is material to validate the existence of Alexander or Caesar. So you owe it to the credibility of your argument not to knee-jerk your skepticism toward Christianity, without voicing more skepticism toward other personages or events of ancient history.
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The same way the governor of Arkansas can't offer a pardon to anyone in Gitmo bay. He has no authority to do so. Also, we have document's showing that he was deposed from power for being too vicious and crucifying Jews by the score with little to no reason. Why then would he be freeing prisoners?
I don't deny the existence of Jesus. He existed, but the people writing about him never met him. Also, the date of his crucifixion is integral to the mythology. He is supposed to be reenacting the Passover story, using himself as the sacrificed lamb. So, doing it ON Passover makes sense. Doing it the day before...not so much.
The reason the folks writing the Gospels never met him is simple. See, until the year 73 AD the Jews were allowed to enact their own laws and live as they pleased so long as they paid homage to the Romans. However, there was an uprising in 73 AD that led to the destruction of the second temple and further restrictions on the Jews. One of these restrictions was taking away their right to use the death penalty without permission from the Romans.
Also during this time there were major shifts in the Jewish hierarchy. Jesus was more or less a Pharisee. There were 3 groups of Jews. There was one group that became extremists and went back to the Red Sea to wait for G-d to take them back up to heaven. The stopped eating and drinking and screwing, and quickly died off. The second group became militant and led the aforementioned revolt. They were completely annihilated. So, the only group left was the Pharisees, the moderates who bought into the Roman ways. Well, they did by the time the New Testament was written. At the time of Jesus’ life, their beliefs and policies were almost identical to his own.
Then there is the issue of the virgin birth. See, Hebrew is written without vowels. I don’t exactly know why, but that’s the way it is. The words for “young girl” “unmarried woman” and “virgin” are all identical, save for the vowels…which aren’t written. So, the whole virgin birth bit is pretty much a typo.
And there are plenty more issues like this. Yeah, what Jesus said is pretty groovy. But I've never seen a church act on any of it. -
re: "Remember much of what was ever written down was not included in the bible because it did not vibe well for the compilers. Who knows what was destroyed." Uuuuuummmm...how would we remember something that we never saw? It was destroyed, right? I forgot about all that stuff in history class. The last three chapters titled, "Fill in the Blank", where you get to write whatever you want....like that atheists have their own organization called, "Conartist Jesus must die...again!" Wouldn't atheists resist joining forces for fear of starting a religion based on Atheism? Also, what would Christ have to "gain" if he was a conartist and not there to reap the rewards? His death was followed by hundreds of years of persecution of early Christians by the Romans. Sounds like a master plan, dude!
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Feb 24, 2007 10:03:39 PM CST
no basis to say the Christianity controls the masses?
by s0nicdeathmonkey
You're kidding, right? How about America's sexual moors? How about the total subjugation of woman and the obsession in religion with control of natural impulses? what about tithing and paying tribute and the concept of a day that requires you to pay tribute to G-d. Just to name a very, VERY few.
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Secretly, somewhere in LA, Tom is reading this. And He's speed dialing JC. Jame Cameron. Not Jesus Christ. "Honey grab the kid, (pause for effect & camera mugging), we're going to settle this.
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so, yeah, logic is like Algebra...but I was never terribly good at it.
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He was a damn good teacher and a general adviser on life. His daughter came in 7th (I think) in the Miss USA pageant this year.
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I see a death match between Kirk Cameron and James Cameron coming.
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you know it. And the FSM knows it too.
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Of course mythological characters are up for more scrutiny. Alexander the Great never returned from the dead to fight dragons! He never walked on water! He never turned water into alcohol instantaneously! All he did was sleep very little. Jesus is held under a microscope because he claimed to be the son of G-d and apparently had magical powers.
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(__)__)
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Perhaps you should worry more about Islam. Y'know, burqas and hajibs, walking at least 3 feet behind men.
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Finally someone to take the heat off them for the next 50 years... Cameron should've gone down with the Titanic and never came back out. He made his money so go dig a hole and build yourself an freaking underground city.I'm with 90% of people on this saying this is probably the worst Publicity stunt ever done. What's he thinking? I see his "people" going - "Heu.. James.. That might not be the best thing to do now... You did your guest star on Entourage, and that was great but trying to do a revelation of the Christ's body... Might be a No No situation here..."He's about to get the whole world on top of his head right now. DNA test.. For God's sake (pun intended) what is he a fucking retard? How's he going to prove that the DNA test are accurate? We're having trouble figuring out who's Anna Nicole Smith's baby's father is and they have the 2 to 3 possible guys. How's a 2000 year old piece of bones going to prove that it's Christ?Cameron is going down if he even tries to do thi sstunt. Gibason and Kramer are having Tequilla shots at Mel's 50,000 acre land and laughing their heads off...
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Feb 24, 2007 10:26:06 PM CST
This will have the same impact on the Christian faith..
by dumbpeoplesuck
As it does on the faiths of atheism, evolutionism, creationism, existentialism, humanism, buddhism, retardism...
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...it was inside Al Capones vault!
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So if he isn't, won't that prove he's right?
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come on, people, WWJP?
What Would Jesus Post?
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I think all religions do that. Christianity is just the one anino decided to bring up. But yes, Islam is even worse in this respect.
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And wasn't Antonio Banderas in a movie a couple years ago about finding the bones of Jesus?
And what's this about Jewish people not killing Jesus? I mean yeah the Roman's threw him up on the cross...but they were in charge. Whatever. This story makes so little sense I don't even know where to begin. I hate these debates that go nowhere. Fuck you James Cameron for pissing all over the comfort zone. I remember when I met you I thought you were pretty cool and you were nice to me but now everyone is gonna be watercooling over this shit.
If I found the bones of Jesus I'd put them back and never tell anyone. -
that's not at ALL hateful and unchristian?
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Sorry, forgot to mention your faith as well.
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1.) If Pilate was removed because he was a rule breaker, what would stop him from holding a mock trial and release of a prisoner without permission? You are assuming he would only act with permission. 2.) While the Pharisees allowed interpretation of the Mosaic laws, you didn't mention the stricter Sadducees by name or the Essenes, which the Historian Josephus believes Jesus was a part of as a Nazorean, not a Pharisee...so I'm confused by your pigeonholing of Christ just hanging around with Pharisees. Also, the Zealots weren't part of a sect, simply rebels. So they don't apply as a larger sect per se. 3.) The virgin birth is part of faith, and the typo is your opinion to help justify your point of view. People today try to claim that Jesus had siblings as well, which could be true because it is possible for Mary and Joseph to have procreated after Christ's birth since her virginity only applied to his conception. But I also believe that there was not an accurate word for cousin in Hebrew at that time, referring to all relatives as "brother". And I don't recall anything in any sect of Judaism at the time which would allow Christ to claim to be the Son of God. Furthermore, Epiphanius, an early historian of Christianity lists several more sects, further muddling your argument that there were only Pharisees to for Christ to muddle with. Also, John walked with Christ. So your argument that no one who knew him wrote about him is also incorrect. In terms of when He was crucified, you again miss the point. It's the set-up for the resurrection. Go back and read the passage. It's complete relation to Passover might be important from a Jewish standpoint, but not when Christ's death and ressurection relate to the salvation of the greater population...not just the Jews. Christ was not reenacting the Passover story. That would again assume his messianic link exclusively to the Jews, but not all of humanity. Lastly, Mother Teresa was granted permission by the Holy See to pursue her own order, "The Missionaries of Charity", so despite some of the Church's major negatives, if that isn't practicing Christ's message through religion, I don't know what is.
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Geraldo!!?!?!?!? He must be soo pissed right now!
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you were trying to say they are opposites? If so, not many of your examples are that great.
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After doing a little research it isn' the bones of christ but the burial place of christ. Where he was intered for the three days before resurection. If Cameron has really discovered the bones of Christ... then that can mean only one thing. ames Cameron is the Anti-Christ. May all prepare for the unholy war of the machines led by Mr. Terminator himself. ARGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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then who's that bearded weirdo who I let sleep under my bed every night? he told me HE was Jesus... James Cameron just blew the lid off... of my MIND!
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... I'M WITH YOU ALL THE WAY..! Once a Stalinist; always a Stalinist. Go James baby. Take 'em all down for good. p.s. Whilst the Bible has wonderful messages for all humanity it is, of course, a work of fiction. That is unless we can get the original author/publisher to verify its authenticity. Therefore, by applying the same Christian criteria, we can all agree that Cameron has, indeed, got the bones of Jesus Jones.?!
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...even if his movies are pretty cool (well, some of them). The guy is chasing a red herring. His "claim" is based upon "evidence" about as convincing as the carp in The Da Vinci Code. Only a gullible man actively seeking "evidence" to support his prejudiced beliefs could believe something as remarkably ignorant as this. It reminds me of those ignorant fellows in Iran (or Mel Gibson's daddy) who are seeking "proof" that the Holocaust is an "exaggerated myth." Of course, we are talking about a man who believes in some ridiculous conspiracies. Instead of chasing red herrings, why can't he find a cure for his EVER-INCREASING EGO? Until then, I have a few "artifacts" to sell -- such as a lollipop licked by Buddah, a tampon used by Venus, a condom used by Mohammed and photographic "evidence" of John F. Kennedy's monogamy. Give it a rest, Jimmy!
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That blew the lid off my mind line is great. lol
Fucking hell this is going to be news for the next year whether it's a joke or not.
Crossing my fingers the bones get up and dance. Man would that be great. Actually no it would suck cause I'm not baptized so it would mean I'm actually going to the HELL. Fuck. I need to go buy some shorts. -
I found his myspace. Jesus is an goth kid who's into death metal.
http://www.myspace.com/jesus -
And another thing, the Whigs agree that you're a complete twit, Mr. Van Buren!
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JEEEEEEEEEEEEEESUSSSSSSS CHRIST JR.!!!!!
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1.) If Pilate was removed because he was a rule breaker, what would stop him from holding a mock trial and release of a prisoner without permission? You are assuming he would only act with permission.-----------------Well, he was breaking the opposite rules. Is Charlie Manson likely to start shanking prisoners who use racial epithets towards blacks?-----------------I respond to "2." later on, and this message is already too long so, read ahead for that.------------------
3.) The virgin birth is part of faith, and the typo is your opinion to help justify your point of view.----------------------the problem here is, I actually speak the language. So, it makes sense that it could be a typo.
People today try to claim that Jesus had siblings as well, which could be true because it is possible for Mary and Joseph to have procreated after Christ's birth since her virginity only applied to his conception. But I also believe that there was not an accurate word for cousin in Hebrew at that time, referring to all relatives as "brother".---------true-------And I don't recall anything in any sect of Judaism at the time which would allow Christ to claim to be the Son of God.-----------also true----messiah is a transliteration of a word meaning "anointed one" it meant KING, not son of G-d, unless we are to assume that the Jews believed in divine right of kings, which I don't remember reading.----------Furthermore, Epiphanius, an early historian of Christianity lists several more sects, further muddling your argument that there were only Pharisees to for Christ to muddle with.--------------------nonononno, there were only Pharisees when the book was WRITTEN, not when it all happened. Also, I am talking about major groups in the direct vicinity of where the books would have been written. there were of course 12 tribes, and many splinter groups from them.---------Also, John walked with Christ. So your argument that no one who knew him wrote about him is also incorrect.---------well, then John simply had on friggin clue about the world around him. John claimed to walk with Jesus, sure. but his ignorance of the time in which Jesus lived seems to speak otherwise.------------In terms of when He was crucified, you again miss the point. It's the set-up for the resurrection. Go back and read the passage. It's complete relation to Passover might be important from a Jewish standpoint, but not when Christ's death and ressurection relate to the salvation of the greater population...not just the Jews. Christ was not reenacting the Passover story. That would again assume his messianic link exclusively to the Jews, but not all of humanity.--------------------the writers were trying to convert Jews and overwrite the previous miracles. Also, there seems to be a certain internal logic to G-d using the same method more than once.--------------Lastly, Mother Teresa was granted permission by the Holy See to pursue her own order, "The Missionaries of Charity", so despite some of the Church's major negatives, if that isn't practicing Christ's message through religion, I don't know what is.--------------------Mother Teresa is the exception to the rule. she is degenerate from the general populace. In general societal trends you ignore the extremes on both sides. thus, Pat Robertson and Mother Teresa would both be bad examples of Christianity. (though, so many people follow and listen to the former, as to possibly make that a bad example). -
...by honest scholars. The non-Christian, ancient historian Josephus, for one, wrote about Jesus.
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Just dropped my stock has well.. Won't be taking the chance for crying out loud!
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If this is true, then Jesus' son would not need to be capitalized "Son," right?
Cameron is in for a world of hurt on this one. I worte about this too:
http://therecshow.com/2007/02/24/camerons-jesus-a-titanic-fraud/
Yikes, this is going to be huge.
www.therecshow.com -
...has it become acceptable to prejudicially attack a religion (or follower of a religion)? ... ... ...
It seems like the ONLY "politically correct" thing that Hollywood celebs and liberals have left to mock are Southerners and Christians. ... ... ...
In my opinion, it amounts to religious bigotry. James Cameron is willing to create such a documentary based upon ridiculous "evidence" because his comrades in California will fund him and pat him on the back. It reminds me of those fools in Iran funding a documentary that questions the Holocaust. ... ... ...
It's pretty sad, really. And it is quite frightening. -
I Hope we get the Star Trek TB! Let's get posting!
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Darnit!
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DARN!
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I call it!
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He is so awesome. I can't wait to see the reactions to this.
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I'm actually quite incomplete, as dipshits go. So there. Teach me more. I've a feeling you might complete me.
GADS this is funny. Love you, vannyB -
Get it! It's his bones! He is the savior.
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Not me.
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Actually, the Hebrew word in Genesis that is usually translated "helper" is not at all demeaning or of a second-class nature. It is a word used 21 times in the Bible, and 16 of those times it refers to God! So anyone who sees that Genesis quote to justify treating women as second class citizens must also believe God is a second class citizen as well! I won't disagree that the Bible was written by men and reflects a male-dominated viewpoint, but I actually use that particular verse to argue that Creation's original intent was equality. That word should be translated "partner."
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.. oh .. oh yeah ..them bones!..
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A sliced of Fried Comedy Gold.
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What's mostly debated about the Josephus reference is whether or not it was redacted. Some later Christian writers did probably add some stuff to it, but most scholars agree Josephus referenced the historical Jesus.
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Where have you gotten your information about Josephus? His works (including his Judeo commentary and references to Christ) have not been in question since the 17th Century. This argument is "modern" and consists mostly of comments from the "Jesus scholars" (consisting of mostly non-christian and atheistic scholars). Most of the early historians validate the writings of Josephus concerning his Judeo commentaries. Just thought I'd let you know. ... ... ... But this "talkback" is not about Josephus. It is about James Cameron's ridiculous documentary based upon less than scientific evidence. ... ... ... Oh well.
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You might want to find source material OTHER than the Wiki.
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You open your statement by asserting Jesus is a mythological character. No respected academic or scholar of history refutes the simple fact that Jesus EXISTED. You can believe or disbelieve aspects of the miraculous accounts, but to preface your statement with "mythological" in reference to Jesus already removes any serious consideration to your viewpoint. One cannot claim to be intellectual and at the same time ignore the basic reality of the existence of the historical Jesus, yet give higher credence to less documented events or personalities of antiquity. I believe that Julius Caesar existed but I don't share the belief of the Julian cult that followed, asserting his deity.
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It's money in Hollywood being moved away from anything James Cameron is involved in.
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"Okay, so these people were related and of Jewish ethnicity and they died about 2,000 years ago, and, LOOK AT THEIR NAMES! C'mon, LOOK AT THEIR NAMES! I mean, what are the freakin' odds?"
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I am no theologian, obviously, but let's look at this logically. The assertion is that some tomb they found like in 1980 contains the coffins (or whatever you want to call them) of Jesus' whole family, including his son. Okay.. first question comes to mind- how come we have never, ever heard of any competing theory that states they were all buried together before? Don't you think in 2000 years, there would have been SOMETHING out there that would have speculated that they were all buried together? And don't give me the old "Catholic church covered it up" theory because there is NO WAY something this huge could be covered up completely. If this was being offered as proof of something that had been rumored to be true, that would be one thing. But this.. this is an entirely new idea and i'm just not buying it. And last but not least, JAMES CAMERON unraveling the mysteries of the universe? Come on.
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You site logic twice when discussing matters of God and faith. Believing in God defies logic, from a human point of view. I would hardly list Pat Robertson as an example for Christianity, he's gained mass personal wealth from his "message", thus ignoring one of Christ's key sticking points. "You cannot serve two Masters..." so yeah, he is a bad example. As for Mother Teresa, you twisted my answer into another argument. You have to count it in the religious realm, even if anomolous. It was in response to your statement, "Yeah, what Jesus said is pretty groovy. But I've never seen a church act on any of it." Mother Teresa acted in conjunction with the Church so...note the point. Also, despite the translation of a single word possibly being a typo, Mary also stated very plainly to the angelic messenger about conceiving, "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man", the question of Mary's virginity goes beyond a single word. A few other thoughts, The school of Shammai (Pharisees), which was politically proactive, also had close ties to the zealots...which tells me that they were not as passive as you paint them. And all of the Gospels, with the exception of John, are dated by historians before the destruction of the Temple and the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. which Christ "prophesied" the destruction of. So, during the time three of the Gospels were written, the sects you claim were destroyed still existed, no? Lastly, the internal logic of God being repetitive doesn't jive since, if you believe in Him, He defies logic.
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James Cameron is obviously big... He has almost as many responses than the JJ Abrams TB and it's only been up for a few hours...
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he could never prove it well enough to convince the believers.
I forsee this as more of a "What if Jesus's body was found, what would that do to western civilization?" sort of Documentary. -
...it's time to go to bed.
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...you refer to? If so, then the "misinformation" is not coming from me.
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I love Wikipedia. Love it, love it, love it.
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I just want to apologize for singling out VannyB just to feel better about myself. Really, that's all this is about. Its human nature to do that. When I think about it, though, all of us could be in a much worse place. I'm thinking of James Cameron, and his pain. Does he really need to single out Jesus to feel better about himself? What must it feel like, to feel THAT inadequate, that only by proving yourself more clever than God incarnate can you feel like the man you ought to be...I ask you???
Somebody go get Sybok.
I'm just going to say this. I'm a Terminator fan. I'm also a Jesus fan. Cameron betrayed me, and others like me when he turned the helm of that franchise to others. Jesus didn't do that, nor was he responsible for it. Now Cameron's going to turn on Jesus? Hey James, he might be the only one willing to forgive you for that. Myself, I'm not listening, I'm not listening, blah, blah, blah -
c'mere, bud. Let me hug that rage out of you! I think everyone in this talkback should hug angry Martin Van Buren!
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c'mere, bud. Let me hug that rage out of you! I think everyone in this talkback should hug angry Martin Van Buren!
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This has gotta be the dumbest move ever made by a film producer. Wow. Wow. Wow. I can't help but think that it IS welcome to Howard Hughes time for Cameron. Doesn't matter if Jesus is God or real or anything... the only thing that matters is that James Cameron makes movies and he's out of his league and is about to seriously embaress himself.
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Serious academically minded individuals do not consult the open-sourced Wiki for credibility. It is typically written by pseudo-intellectuals, individuals with prejudicial tendencies, or high school kids who have quite a bit of time on their hands. True scholars read it merely to get a laugh. But you probably already know that. BACK TO TOPIC... ... ... ... ... James Cameron's social credibility will probably be affected by this stunt. Don't get me wrong -- I will still watch Avatar! I just hope that he is able to seperate his political, religous and social beliefs from his work. Sadly, it is difficult to find an "A LIST" director that is able to accomplish this anymore.
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...but Cameron's career won't.
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...so hostile!
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So you know it's a fountain of reputable information.
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I think that's the title of the next Wayans bros film.
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SNL's okay...but that guy is funny!
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You know...it just doesn't have the same ring to it.
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He's playing the harp...hhahahahahaa.
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Nothing captures the spirit of Harry Knowles more
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agreed.
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are you sure its cameron and not m. night?
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The only link I could find to your image was this one. http://tinyurl.com/2u6zqm You appear to be handsom and fast, but the tan...I don't know...maybe the sideburns throw off your pigment?
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You have a very limited mental capacity in that you feel the need to start calling people "dicks" and "asses" merely because they question your posts. This wasn't about ME, or even the WIKI. It was about citing material from the Wiki as a FACT when it might in fact be an unreliable source. This is no different than James Cameron's "sources" for his ridiculous documentary. Anyway, have a great night.
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He'd probably be one of those dudes that's like "Hey man, I haven't TOUCHED your fluffer-nutter, I haven't even seen it, I didn't know you were making one - if I wanted a motherlovin' fluffer-nutter, I'd make the GODDAMNED thing my own self, alright? We good? Yeah, that's my word. Huh?! No, didn't think so..."
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my mom used to make those. And she hated James Cameron, too!
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Crap. This does not bode well for Avatar. I love this guy, and i am sure Jesus was never resurrected but this is truly nutty for him to do this.
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-drums- thank you, im here all week
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...but what it doesn't bring out is the nature of the dispute. What's argued is whether or not Josephus' naming of Jesus as the Messiah is original, or an interpolation by later Christian editors. I believe the latter, but that doesn't take away the historical importance of the original Josephus reference. It's like if I took a history book that quoted Walter Cronkite in 1963, "From Dallas, Texas, the flash, apparently official. President Kennedy died at 1:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, two o'clock Eastern Standard Time." and that added my own line, "murdered by the CIA." Just because I added a line which comes out of my own agenda doesn't mean Cronkite's original statement is false or untrustworthy.
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Feb 25, 2007 12:13:28 AM CST
Anything that pisses off stupid-ass Christians is good.
by harry weinstein
The mind blowing thing? He found the Jesus bones on Mars.
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when I heard him claim that Moses and the Israelites crossed the 'sea of reeds' not the red sea. Ill wait to see what he says. Im not religious, I know Jesus was just a person, but Im skeptical about this. It sounds kinda nutty. BTW there are no bodies or bones from what I understand. They were taken from the coffins and buried in unmarked graves years ago. But there is DNA left anyhow. Cameron has the names on the coffins which match up to the names mentioned in the bible, which is suppsoe to be like 1 in a million chance or something, that there would be a family with all those exact names. He also has DNA from the two Jesus and Mary Magdalene coffins that aren't related, which suggests that they were married. The rest all are from the same family. Thats all I know about.
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of Josephus' work. Plus, the Roman historian Tacitus, references Christ directly, though 30+ years after Christ's death (leaving room for more argument). Anyway, read for yourself. Tacitus is discussing the burning of Rome around 64 AD..."But neither the aid of man, nor the liberality of the prince, nor the propitiations of the gods succeeded in destroying the belief that the fire had been purposely lit. In order to put an end to this rumor, therefore, Nero laid the blame on and visited with severe punishment those men, hateful for their crimes, whom the people called Christians. He from whom the name was derived, Christus, was put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. But the pernicious superstition, checked for a moment, broke out again, not only in Judea, the native land of the monstrosity, but also in Rome, to which all conceivable horrors and abominations flow from every side, and find supporters. First, therefore, those were arrested who openly confessed; then, on their information, a great number, who were not so much convicted of the fire as of hatred of the human race. Ridicule was passed on them as they died; so that, clothed in skins of beasts, they were torn to pieces by dogs, or crucified, or committed to the flames, and when the sun had gone down they were burned to light up the night. Nero had lent his garden for this spectacle, and gave games in the Circus, mixing with the people in the dress of a charioteer or standing in the chariot. Hence there was a strong sympathy for them, though they might have been guilty enough to deserve the severest punishment, on the ground that they were sacrificed, not to the general good, but to the cruelty of one man." (Annals XV, 44)"
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...is the only acceptable "intolerance" in Hollywood (well, besides "politically correct" mockery of southerners and conservatives). Oh well. I suppose that some people don't realize that "tolerance" is a two-way street. ;)
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I love it when shit gets stirred up.
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Now this talkback is officially going to hell.
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Is hardly a "conspiracy theory." I believe Josephus referenced Jesus as a miracle worker and gave a brief but accurate description of his life, but I don't think Josephus would've made the outright claim that Jesus was the Messiah. That's pretty inconsistent with the other things he says about Jesus. I'm not arguing Josephus never mentioned Jesus, only that he wouldn't have ascribed Messiah-ship to him.
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What would be cool is if he found JIMMY HOFFA! That would be a mystery solved!
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Santa Claus for grown-ups.
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....WHAT THE F**K?!?!?!?!?
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nobody in here is questioning this lame "story"? Oh, yeah, trailer trash loves their "Star" fixes.
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...Will be when Cameron tries to claim that Mary Magdalein was the mother of His Son Judah!(Also alegedly buried with him in the same tomb). Somehow I think the Evangelicals will be itching to get medieval on his ass.
Roll On "these are the final days" etc. -
....of anyone he ticks off.
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...(as opposed to a copyist) wrote about a historical Jesus.Van Buren, you referenced the 17th Century for a reason. I understand that you said "since" but the starting point you gave was the 17th century. Here's why: during that time, philosophers and others began questioning everything. Concerning Jospehus, their questions have been answered by archeology and linguistics. Not trying to make you look bad, but there's been alot of research on that subject and it is old news that the evidence ways in favor of Josephus.
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Yawn. I'm even less likely to watch this than I am the HateThink Conformity Awards...er, I mean the Oscars.
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No brains, but definitely balls.
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Come on people...like 300 posts and I make the first Mexican joke?
This place is deader than Jesus. -
Just as much arrogance and condescension as the fundies give.
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I'm a Catholic, but based on my experiences, I just figure that's the best fit for me. Do I believe it? Sometimes. Do I criticize the beliefs of others? Hell no. It's all fucking guesswork anyway. And the people who do bad things in the name of religion are just the loudest. Who is going to make more of a splash? The guy who runs a fundraiser for a local homeless shelter or the guy who starts a coalition to beat gay people? It's absurd to point at the loud people. Also, to those who want to criticize me for beliving in a God, please shut up. There was once NOTHING and now there is SOMETHING. God's about a good a reason as anything else. If I believe in God or don't believe in God, what does it matter to you? How does it affect your life in any way? I respect the beliefs of atheists, because I truly see how someone can believe that. I just happen to disagree. And I think this whole Jimmy Cameron thing is going to end up fizzling really quick.
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ju u man?
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You watch. He has been riding on the Titanic wave for too long.
(Titanic is actually lame!)
The reason why he has taken this long to make a new movie is because:
1)He is shit scared of people realising that he got lucky with Titanic and Titanic was shit.
2)He needs such a huge budget on a film to mask he managerial and creative fuck-ups.
He is truely: the King of Indecision. -
Where is Jesus's cousin and where can I meet him?
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Its the only way to be sure.
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What an asshole. There is no scientific way to prove any bones are those of Christ. If Cameron proves this beyond a doubt, I will straddle a mile of barbed wire and run the entire length naked. The Professor has spoken.
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I understand how you feel but most of the world problems stem from people, not just religion. Plus you are discounting the amount of charity and goodwill that comes from acts of relgion. An atheist world would not automatically mean world peace and love
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Cameron is setting up for the new sci-fi movie. With this new find now they can use the DNA to create genetically altered vampire clones of Jesus, OPENED to the public....then things just went wrong....."Jesus Loves YOUr BLOOD"
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there is no way this is true.... This is going to be one long and pretty awesome april fools....I just hope that after the Aint it Cool staff denounce it as a joke, the people here won't keep on believing this thing just like people kept on doing after Darwin denounced evolution ; )
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there is only one JC and i'm on God's side.....sorry Cameron, but whyyyyyyyy don't play this game Bill Paxton won't be able to save you from this one....i loved you man, you really broke my heart
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should anyone be expected to be tolerant of another's superstitions?
I just disbelieve in at least one god more than most. -
The fucker has finally lost it.
Although the moment he let the Terminator franchise out of his sights was the real moment I began to doubt him. That and Titanic. Oh and True fuckin Lies. And... "King of the World". And now this. The man's a cock, plain and simple. Stick to what you're good at Jimmy... by that I mean B-Movies, you old hack. -
is this some kind of twilight zone...really because this is fucking ridiculous. Did a jesus exist? YES. Did this said jesus get crucified? Yes. Did he perform miracles and shit? INCONCLUSIVE! Chrisitianity (and all religions) are about Faith and hardly have room for facts...who cares if it's not true as long as people are happy believing it than why should anyone bother. This is the stupidest publicity stunt and Cameron may destroy his career from such a stupid premise...you can't prove those bones are Christ, there is nothing to go on and his father was a carpenter how the hell would they get a tomb? I am not religious in anyway, but why can't people just leave somethings alone.
GO AGNOSTICISIM GO!!!! -
Feb 25, 2007 3:28:46 AM CST
There is no way to prove any of the claims he's making
by angry mean panda
Whether or not you believe Jesus was the son of God is completely immaterial to the fact that Cameron is making claims that there are aboslutely no scientific way to verify. DNA tests? Checked against what? This is just a publicity grab.
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With Bale and Routh. On the 2000 year-old skels? I'm with CTU mole. Clone them. Clone them or shut up. Real or not, they are just bones. We are getting a JLA movie! Wake up!
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Feb 25, 2007 3:34:45 AM CST
This week, on a very special episode of "Cold Case":
by flim springfield
Guest director, James Cameron!
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IN JAMES CAMERON'S STOMACH ::::AHHNOLD VOICE:::
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...and now it's up to you to guess which J.C. I mean:James Cameron Jesus Christ John Connor
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Religion is the human response to being alive and having to die. It's not rocket science you know...
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If Cameron holds this press conference we will never see AVATAR. All the religious crazies will be out to get him.
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...then four fifths of the world is wrong.
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I heard he likes Fish, Bread and Wine..oh and Nacho Grandes from Taco Bell. Don't worry he's Jesus and take handle the Ecoli.
Oh as for the people whining about Christian/Religion bashing and repression, assuming you are here in the US, quit whining. 80% or more of americans beleive in God/Religion, the great majority of them are self professed Christians. Christians control most areas of our society. Just for example, Who was the last Christian elected president...uh all of them. Atheists are the least likey people to be elected as president according to most polls. Transexual Cloned Child Abusing Polygamist Mulsim Fanatic Illegal Alien Jihadists have a better shot of being President than a Athesist. If any body is despised/attacked/repressed it's the Athesist. -
I thought this story sounded a little too familiar when I first heard it. Check out Daniel Easterman's 1989 novel "Brotherhood of the Tomb".
This could really get interesting. -
Forget the DNA angle, what can it prove? But I wonder if there are signs of skeletal-damage, caused by big nails being hammered into palms and feet. Or damage to the ribs from the point of a Roman soldier's spear? I guess Jesus' body would bear a lot of tell-tale signs that would help in identification, he was in pretty bad shape towards the end there.
According to my "Passion" dvd, anyway... -
EVERYBODY knows that. But this... What are you hoping for? A New Revelation of St James the Secular?
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....uh....that guy from the Passion of the Christ, walk out onto the stage and tell everyone that Jesus is back.
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Then everyone can just say wars are about the money and oil and shit like that without covering it up as a holy war. JC for president.
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a great talkback to start the day of oscar insanity.
well...I'm a Christian but while my faith is in steady motion I think that my trust in god is still bigger than James Cameron. That's not important, though. I've already fallen in love with this talkback. Thanks JC -
Was it the Oscar that made Cameron like this??
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Expect to see "Cameron 2:10" on signs at the ballpark.....
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Amen to that brother. In 1000 years when religion is dead people will look back at our time and laugh.
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You're my hero. Apart from James Cameron that is.
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...Wow. Just...wow. Baaaad idea, Jim. There are Vat-assassins on the starboard bow, and they've got big-ass guns. Red alert.
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...As the executive wing, the marketing department, and pretty much EVERY Fox shareholder now freaks out over the combined math equation that (1) they've given Cameron a bank-busting $200 million to make AVATAR and (2) he's now going to PISS OFF half the planet Earth with this utter anti-Christian bullshit of a stunt, to the point that by the time AVATAR actually is released, quite a few million people will want to trash and burn ANYTHING Cameron related.Love Cameron as a filmmaker, but I guess it's nice to see he's consistent on the front of being a total self-promoting huckster and ego maniac.Oh, and FUCK YOU, Cameron, for even attaching yourself to such a worthless and emotionally divisive project that has no artistic merit and which you can't back up the slightest bit. You just lost one fucking hell of alot of money for Fox...
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Shouldn't you wait to hear what he says tomorrow before judging him?
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Exactly. I do find it amazing in this day and age that people can still believe in religion. It's a form of brainwashing handed down from one genration to the next. Why don't people realise that there were messianic stories like Jesus's around long before his time in cultures around the world? It's a metaphor, the human response to being alive and having to die. The fact that some people take the Jesus myth as having actually happened is 50% hilarous and 50% soul-destroying. Still, there it is.
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By the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword.
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"He doesn't look a thing like Jeeesus, but he, talks like a gentleman, like you remember when you, were youuung." - The Killers
I just had to put in my two cents - for when this talkback is printed out and used as a hit list for religious extremists. Come and get me you fruity bastards. -
all people here already saw the film.
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With whip-marks all over his back.
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...but faith will live on.
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But Cameron better have some pretty fucking compelling evidence if he expects me to believe he's found his tomb. I don't think the Christians have found it, and I don't think Cameron has found it. That being said, people who say things like "there's as much evidence for Jesus as for Caesar" are pretty fucking stupid. There's a mountain of contemporaneous evidence for Caesar and the main events of his life. The best evidence we have for the existence of Jesus begins decades after his death. Frankly, since Octavian produced and recorded living witnesses to Julius' apotheosis into heaven as a god, we have more evidence for Caesar's godhood than we have for Jesus. We just don't believe in Julius' godhood, because it would be fucking stupid to believe some story about a widely admired man being spotted rising into heaven, and because we know that's just the kind of story hungry beggars of that time would make up to get a free meal. Somehow we forget these pretty obvious facts when it comes to Jesus, though. I'm not sure why, really.
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JC just jumped the shark trying to pull the ol I-just-found-the-late-JC trick. He needs to get over himself and make a movie....any movie, just a movie...it doesn't have to be something the world has never seen. Spielberg is far better and continually makes movies...that is his passion. JC passion is apparently is own ego. Go fuck yourself JC and make a GD movie if you still know how.
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Jon Turturo will have something to say about this.
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Feb 25, 2007 8:08:45 AM CST
Huh, Jim Cameron have ventured into H.Hughes territory
by badwaldo s revenge
Not that it's bad, quite the opposite. Kudos to James for striving towards the goals as an adventurer, explorer and discoverer akin to the iconic adventurers Marco Polo, Richard F. Burton, Charles Darwin and Theodore Roosevelt. At least he have fulfilled the dreams outside of a respectable and lucrative filmmaking career as a screenwriter, director & innovator. I'll hold my judgment then.
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Why are people assuming Cameron has a single fact to support his claim? There is a team of Archeologists and historians to back this up. There were be scientific evidence.
Second, since when is Archeology, what this is really about, so negative an idea? So what if Cameron put together the documentary? It is still based on sound science. -
James Cameron is too much sometimes. He is a brilliant filmmaker and all, and exactly for this reason he should shoot feature films, not make stupid docos about Jesus or his body or whatever. Yes, stupid. I liked when Harry says, how can we prove it´s Jesus, by dipping his bones in water or what? And as long as you can´t prove it´s Jesus, then don´t make a film saying you have found his remains or whatever you have found, mr Cameron. This stinks of Jim Cameron wanting to get a peace of the Jesus/Mary Magdalena sensationalism that was started by Da vinci Code. Theories of Jesus having a wife are as old as christianity, but it was that famous novel that made a lot (ore) people aware of that. I´m atheist, so I don´t care if it´s Jesus or not, I just think that Jim Cameron is making a fool of himself by tackling such a subject. Bring on Avatar instead IMO.
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I´d like to agree with you with all my heart. But I will give the man one more chance to prove himself with Avatar. If he doesn´t make me cum the first time I see the trailer on my huge monitor I will say he has lost it. One more chance. And with that I´m beeing very generous.
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Im, i´m your bitch
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James Cameron used to be my hero
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Santa Clause's hideout, fuck that Jesus guy. He's booooooring.
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but he's still my movie god!All hail the Iron Cameron!
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How did he beat Geraldo to it?
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that if you disturb the accursed tomb of Jesus, his body will come back to life and bring with it the plagues of Exodus? This won't go well . . .
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HKYFA!
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The very fact that he's doing something so absolutely, positively insensitive and intolerant of people's belief's -- essentially saying "Hey, I was thinking I'd be my normal ego maniac self and generate a ton of publicity, which translates into a ton of press and money, by completely shitting all over your beliefs" instantly means that I don't have to listen to the fucker.Then again, the very idea of explaining how insulting and ridiculous Cameron's actions are would be lost on someone like you who immediately after my post wrote (quote): "Exactly. I do find it amazing in this day and age that people can still believe in religion. It's a form of brainwashing handed down from one genration to the next"...as well as "The fact that some people take the Jesus myth as having actually happened is 50% hilarous and 50% soul-destroying. Still, there it is."Hey, Harry likes to keep things from turning into flame wars, so I won't respond to the utter horse shit you're spreading. But I will say again, FUCK YOU, Cameron, for putting yourself behind something SO divisive and emotionally upsetting to people. I'll really be looking forward to watching the utter shit storm that's going to break out over this one, as well as really laughing over the ass reaming and career destruction you're now going to suffer as well.
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is now open!
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You claim that Cameron will "PISS OFF half the planet" by tampering with one of Christianity's core beliefs. However, considering that 2/3 of humans on the planet Earth could care less about the various Christain religions, your claims lack even a tittle of validity. Try a little research next time before spouting out any more ill-conceived opinions, and I assure you that you'll sleep better at night knowing that you're not just another crackpot with a keyboard. And by the way, if Cameron happens to bankrupt Rupert Murdoch, 20th Century Fox, Fox Studios, etc. by poisoning them with this sensationalistic nonsense, then more power to him. That's one corporation that needs a time-out in the corner for awhile.
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IF Cameron actually goes through with this ridiculous Jesus stunt and backs it personally, place your bets now on how fast Rupert Murdoch -- as core owner of Fox -- steps in and ORDERS Fox to sack AVATAR completely. For crying out loud, Murdoch didn't want the bad PR or stock damage due to public outcry over the O.J. Simpson book and TV special -- so do you REALLY think he's going to want the corporation tied to a show that proclaims "Yeah, Jesus was just a guy and he's dead. Sorry, all your beliefs are wrong."Riiiiiiiight. Like THAT'S really going to happen over at Murdoch's Fox.In fact, Murdoch being the kind of guy thhat he is, will likely tell Cameron, "Oh, and by the way, as an extra fuck you for dragging the studio and our shareholders into a TOTAL P.R. nightmare over your bullshit beliefs, until you also pay me back all the money that we've spent on AVATAR to date...and I mean every single fucking penny...that script, those designs, and that film stock stays here and locked up and you can't even touch it, douche bag."
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Murdochs FOX is one of the most liberal networks out there. It is only surpassed by FX.
Only Fox news caters to the right.
Murdoch is a genius in playing it both ways. Profiting from both sides.
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I can't wait to see 2000 years of rhetoric and lies crumble society like a dog pissing in a sandbox.
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He doesn't want to hear the evidence. The evidence may be shitty, but that doesn't even matter to TP. The mere fact that Cameron even chose to investigate the matter is enough for TP to hate him. Because it's "insensitive", right? Thanks for demonstrating the gaping maw of stupid at the heart of the believer's mind.
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Jews want this to happen. It gets them off the hook for that whole killing of Jesus thing. Second it puts Jesus in the light of a Jewish fring cult and not the son of God.
It tones the wacko radical right down because the next group they will go after Muslims are Jews. Buddhists got that whole kung fu shit and will not be fucked with.
Lots of Jewish money in Hollywood. Mamet has a new book targetted directly at Jews. He is trying to bring them back into the fold. On Real Time he made the ballsy claim that Jews are Jews first and Americans second. And Maher let it go by.
I think the next thing you will see is radical Judiasm rise. You already have aspects of it here and in Israel. -
Not any new son James Cameron doing a big-screen adaptation of Tom Robbin's "Another Roadside Attraction".... is there? That would explain all this pretty well.
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is that people seem more concerned that Avatar wont be made than the fact that he's uncovering the lies of a corrupt religion that a billion people believe in. New world order and anarchy? Who gives a fuck, I wanna see avatar!
Everyones a cunt except me. -
While Fox might do some daring shows from time to time, the bottom line to the way that Rupert Murdoch runs his empire IS the so-called bottom line.As I mentioned in my post, the OJ book was not only recalled and every copy destroyed...the special was not only cancelled and supposedly the film even burned...but Judith Regan, the woman responsible for it all, was likewise fired. And keep in mind -- going back to your assertion that Murdoch likes to profit from both sides -- that up until the OJ incident, Regan's private publishing line had been VERY successful for Murdoch and made him a lot of coin. So going by your theory, if money was the only deciding factor, Murdoch would have gone ahead with the book for the money it surely would have generated...he would have aired the special to generate the sensationalistic ratings it would have gotten and thus made even more money...and he would have kept Regan on to continue her Fox profit-making publishing line.But going against your theory, Murdoch didn't do ANY of that, now did he?In the end, the REAL bottom line was that public outcry was SO strong and SO angry that the book, show, and even Regan herself were all sacked, no second thoughts about it. So I'll say it again: that was merely over OJ. So with that in mind, do you REALLY think Murdoch wants Fox to be seen as being in bed with Cameron as he now shits all over Christianity and pisses off a helluva lot more people? And keep in mind, too, that the "OJ stunt" was really just a United States-based incident while this new "Jesus stunt" will insult people GLOBALLY. So again, with that in mind, do you REALLY think people won't get even MORE upset over this stunt? And in far, far, FAR larger numbers? Or demand that Cameron pay a price for horseshit?My bet, look for either the movie to get sacked by Murdoch UNLESS Cameron almost immediately starts back-pedaling over this and actually does some sort of FORMAL APOLOGY for all to see for having even been involved...OR look for Fox to sell AVATAR off to another studio, citing "the astronomical and ever-soaring costs we never anticipated given its 3D nature" or some such PR bullshit as being the reason they're dumping it, also to put on a front, but to also distance themselves from Cameron.Frankly, IF Cameron goes through with this stunt, which I'm still not sure he atually will -- seriously, I still find it hard to believe that someone as shrewd as Cameron would actually do something this FUCKED UP and career suicidal -- I hope Fox does serve him a shit burger AND make him personally pay for insulting so many people on so many levels. And I hope Murdoch DOES make him come crawling on hands and knees to get his film back, and even then ONLY after Cameron's formally apologized for having done such an utterly retarded thing.
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and Cameron debunks a fairytale story about zombies and easter eggs. It's all good, bitch.
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Proof of the existence of Jesus would not verify any of his magic deeds or the existence of any gods. Still waiting for evidence. Also waiting for evidence of leprechauns.
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Funniest quote i've read in here in years. I suppose he's right though. Some people have seen bigfoot.
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because people don't want to know? Ignorance is bliss? I dunno, can't figure out what the fuck he's going on about to be honest. Religious people scare me with their selective vision. You can tell how scared he is though.
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Both control these enormous empires that manipulate people into what to think, and both as bent as a $3 bill.
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I'm Catholic, and I really am looking forward to hearing what Cameron has to say. That said...you Bible-bashers need to be psychoanalyzed...Anytime anyone mentions anything remotely critical of religion, you people jump on the bandwagon crying "It's all a bunch of fairytales" or "Religion causes all wars." I mean, seriously...mommy issues?
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bible-debunker or something would be more appropriate. I like fairytales. Just dont believe in them.
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Jeebus where you been. Simpsons is the number one subversive show out there. Take a gander at a Book called Media Virus sometime, and it is an older book as well. Or even shows like the OC.
FX is the ultimate in adult programming. On Dirt the other night preppy corporate guy state ones of mens lies was " I won't cum in your mouth", and Willa replied " but I want you to". Shield and Nip/Tuck fall into the same category of highly subversive media manipulation.
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...is the only acceptable "intolerance" in Hollywood (well, besides "politically correct" mockery of southerners and conservatives). Oh well. I suppose that some people don't realize that "tolerance" is a two-way street. It is truly sad when ignorant, pompous individuals take it upon themselves to mock someone elses sacred or atheistic beliefs. Give it a break, Mr. Cameron. Give it a break, talkback bigots. Please. ;)
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Bible Thumper is what you want, like Elmer Gantry.
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Both the South Park guys, and comic writer Mark Millar have noted that people diss and poke fun at Christianity all the time, and the Christians, overall, are pretty good sports about it. You take it up with Judiasm, and the ADL are gonna be so far up your ass you'll cough curly sideburns, and as far as Islam goes? I hope you like being burned alove in your house by a thousand ululuating maniacs. Just saying.
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PCU mocked everybody. And it should be forced viewing for the PC crowd.
Christians aren't fairgame, foolish radicalized people are.
Really if you want bias Muslims are universally portrayed as vile and evil in the US. The mentally ill are always violent and stalkers and dirty.
Christians get off lightly compared to those groups. -
..."at the heart of the believer's mind." Most. Arrogant. Quote. Ever. As some dude once said, "Physician, heal thyself."
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and I'm not sure that's how you spell the sound of a crazed Arab with a torch and an effigy and a fantastic vocal range going "ululululululululu", but you get my drift, da?
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You are wrong on islam. Research the whole issue on the Mohamed picture thing.
Beside South park DID show Mohamed way back when with no repercussions. Unlike Mary's bleeding ass.
Actually the South Park guys said it was Mormons who took things well. -
I blame James Cameron.
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are just as bad as Bible-thumpers who call them "evil."
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Are you referring to the two-parter "Cartoon Wars?" Also, I meant that in a generality, i.e. the Dutch cartoons, Theo Van Gogh, and the Pope's comment. It just seems like whenever people say the Muslims like to riot, they protest... by rioting. I mean, in a way, it's kind of metal, so I have to give it up to them in that regard.
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........what?
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Maybe. Hollywood does indeed mock radicals. However, Hollywood doesn't openly MOCK the diety or sacred rights of ANY OTHER RELIGION. They simply mock Christianity as if it were "vogue" and "fashionable." I watched Family Guy the other day in which Jesus Christ was depicted as a pussy and God was depicted as trying to persuade a prostitute for sex. That is as blatant mockery of a diety as can be imagined. While they often stereotype others, Hollywood doesn't mock the dieties of Muslims, Hindus or other religions. ... ... ... James Cameron might simply open up a "Pandoras Box" in which religious people finally stand up and say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" to Hollywood's blatant intolerance and hypocrisy. ... ... ... That being said -- I hope AVATAR is a good movie. ;)
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stay tuned for the director's cut.
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Read the Wiki and decide. The protest was about portraying Mislims as terrorists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy
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Muslims and their religion are universally portrayed badly. Alternative religions are portrayed badly. Hindu's always get the Ganesh (elephant) joke going.
Fact is only Judaism gets off without a poor portrayal.
Ever see what Hollywood does to Santeria? -
Do you both live on another planet? The Christian majority is so far from anywhere near being persecuted or even openly criticized I think ccchhhrrriiisssm must. And Christians are too busy, you know, trying to preach their religion in schools and dictate laws to really care so much about stopping people "dissing" them (although they do that too, constantly, far more so than Jews or Muslims; again, no idea what you're smoking, TheRevengeOfBayouWilly). Oh, so they don't kill (as many) people... THANKS!
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So much for "tolerance" from Hollywood. I suppose that their views of "tolerance" is limited to people that agree with their political and anti-religious (particularly anti-Christian) social views. It is truly sad, isn't it?
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It's not April 1st yet, right? This story has got to be a joke.
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Feb 25, 2007 11:13:19 AM CST
The Muslims protest being protrayed as terrorists
by therevengeofbayouwilly
by making threats, leaving suitcase bombs and attempting to knife editors? World sympathy for Muslims countdown to 3%...
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Same as the South Park guys, I think. There could very well be a Supreme Power. After all, scientists can't create life, and still have no idea how it started. Then again, modern religion could simply be an updated version of the old-timey stuff such as Zeus, Odin, Ra and the rest of the good time god gang. And I think you're confusing the annoying religious right with the majority of christians who pay no mind to Family Guy's creative interpretation of God. And yes, I am thankful that Pat Robertson doesn't grab a bunch of people with Molotov cocktails and head straight to Hollywood. I'd rather have to deal with a judge trying to get the ten commandments displayed in a courthouse only to have it struck down, than deal with an entire nation forcing someone to go into hiding for fear of having Semtex thrown in your face.
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there's a lot of really important things going on in the world. Why, there's a War in Iraq, genocide in Darfur, Fidel Castro is about to buy the farm, and so on. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're going to make a documentary, make it about something, I don't know, relevant. Hell, you could even do it about robots. You like robots, right? Just not this Da Vinci Code bullshit. Even if you can prove it conclusively, these idiots would just chalk it up to one of the devil's conspiracies, like gravity or evolution. That or just make "Avatar" and "Battle Angel Alita," which both sound like they'll kick barrel-fulls of ass.
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The mocking of Christ (and sacred Christian belief) by Hollywood and liberals... ... ... ...
...is just as OFFENSIVE as someone mocking the holocaust (for Jews). ... ... ...
...is just as OFFENSIVE as mocking Mohammed or Allah (for Muslims). ... ... ...
...is just as OFFENSIVE as mocking someone's sacred beliefs.
... ... ... ... ...
What is the difference between gay-bashing and Christ-bashing???
... ... ... ...
Christ-bashing and Christian-bashing is applauded as FREE SPEECH in Hollywood while gay-bashing is portrayed as coming from ignorant hicks. It truly is a weird form of hypocrisy. ALL FORMS OF BIGOTRY SHOULD BE REJECTED! You don't have to agree with someone -- but you don't have to openly mock (or embrace) them either. -
Every documentary they show is loaded with conjecture and usually disproven. Remember the fiasco with the discovery of Nefertiri when it turned out it was actually a servant? So I'm not real convinced this will pan out but it's still a cool story. And if the bodies are somehow proven to be Jesus and his family, so what? Just because some part of Christianity is seen as myth (and every religion has this) doesn't mean you have to stop living your life by the tenets of the faith. If all things happen according to God's will, then this is God's will. It's not for you to judge. Personally I have faith in God and I'm fascinated to see how this turns out.
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What about Black riots in the US. Does the same hold true?
Or the terroristic targetting of abortion clinics with massive violent protests fake Anthrax and murders.
You seem to have a very narrow viewpoint that doesn't see any of that. -
Dude spend some time on the Democratic websites ( I can't call them liberal because they aren't). They visciously attack NASCAR , gun owners, Christians, all Republicans, Nader, anyone who questions their stances, and the Snickers two guys kissing ad.
Assholes are all over. And bias is bias. -
The blacks had a lot more to deal with than cartoons. They had police brutality, injustice, and the KKK among others killing them and their families. But the blacks also had peaceful protest, they explained their grievances, were brave and went the rational route, and although there is still racism, and will always be racism, they have more freedoms because of it. Of course killing abortion doctors is unacceptable. I fear for my girlfriend every time she picks up her pills. Will today be the day some middle-aged nut bursts in with a shotgun? But I have yet to see the Vatican declare a jihad on Seth MacFarlane or Matt Groening, and I can't remember the entire U.S. burning everything to do with Indonesia thanks to a Muslim beheading three girls. Maybe I slept in those days.
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It's always been this way...they've always called the other side "stupid." I live in NYC, probably one of the most liberal cities in the USA, and I encounter it on a daily basis. Conservatives, religious believers, etc are all STUPID or IGNORANT for having the views they hold. It really is sad...It's like I've always said, liberals are only tolerant of people they agree with...
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How about a band that didn't peak in 1987?
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10 bucks says Cameron probably found these bones in the Titanic wreckage... thereby according to his logic proving Jesus couldn't walk on water... Religious Sceptics, holding firmly to the title of most ridiculous class of citizens since the Garden of Eden.
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Muslims by and large are NOT terrorists. Those that are terrorists are doing so because our supposedly Christian nations has been in the Middle East for years, fucking everything up and imposing our will upon them. Get a clue, then get an education you ignorant twit.
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Thanks to your opinion, not needlessly hampered by examples, I will do exactly as you say! Harvard here I come!
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This isn't the first discovery of it's time... James Cameron is having you all! Maybe he's trying to make money to finance Avatar... http://tinyurl.com/39gl6h
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Have you read about the origins of Islamic jihadism? Probably not. Here's an idea, read up on Salafism, Wahhabism, or Qutbism...the origins of these terrorists is not a political response to whatever it is "we" did in the Middle East...it's religious. When will you masochistic dumbasses on the left realize that it's not OUR fault that psychopathic nihilists blow women and children up along with themselves?
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The only problem to their elaborate hoax is that the original Jewish professor who worked on the site, Amos Kloner, has already come forward to expose the claims as sheer nonsense.
"There is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb," Kloner said. "They were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the 1st century CE."
"It's a beautiful story but without any proof whatsoever," Professor Amos Kloner, who had published the findings of his research in the Israeli periodical Atigot in 1996, told DPA Friday.
"The names that are found on the tombs are names that are similar to the names of the family of Jesus," he conceded.
"But those were the most common names found among Jews in the first centuries BCE and CE," he added.
Kloner dismissed the combination of names found in the cave as a "coincidence."
“It is just not possible that a family who came from Galilee, as the New Testament tells us of Joseph and Mary, would be buried over several generations in [Occupied] Jerusalem.”
Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names
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We're not religious skeptics, because we know Jesus was human and that not only is it physically impossible to be resurrected, but as FluffyUnbound mentioned, even Caesar could have been deified if enough people grabbed onto the story. Just because a bunch of nitwitted peasants, who would believe whatever they were told (since there was no science and "critical thinking" at that time), put stock into STORIES of a magical man rising into heaven, and then was written about in a fictional book, doesn't make it true.
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Perhaps one day all of science will be thought a lie. Perhaps it will be revealed that two people made all of existence... Chuck Norris and Bruce Campbell.
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...with your comments (which you are completely entitled to have and state) is that you are stating AS A FACT something that is merely your own PERSUASION. ... ... ... ... We really need to be careful about using "politically correct" linguistic formalities when TRASHING someone elses sacred beliefs. You BELIEVE such things -- but you cannot prove such things. ... ... ... ... That is the greatest flaw in Hollywood's anti-Christian bigotry. They PRESUME that they alone have a monopoly on truth -- and hypocritically criticize others by accusing them being "narrow-minded." To quote Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?!?" ... ... ... ... I imagine that Hollywood will continue bashing Christianity (and conservatives or southerners) while it simultaneously campaigns against nearly all other forms of "bigotry." Such hypocrisy is truly disheartening. Even more disheartening: Hollywood cannot see its own hypocrisy. *Sigh.
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on tonight's Oscars...
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You KNOW Jesus was human? You KNOW resurrection is physically impossible? Did you try it? Do you have any empirical grounds to test it in a supernatural setting? Did you KNOW those nitwitted peasants? So those same nitwits were crazy enough to make up stories and write fiction and then were willing to be tortured and martyred for something they knew they made up? Because they wee CRAZ-EE? Because they couldn't go around and maybe verify anything for themselves? Were all human beings back then who did farmwork and other forms of peasantry underevolved creatures who didn't develop the capacity for critical thinking skills? Or is this some more a priori conjecture on your part to fit your worldview? What precisely do you KNOW? Or are you confusing it with the word 'Assumption'?
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It's hilarious you think I'm a Leftist because I know something about Mideast politics. I'm actually a conservative and have voted Republican before George W. But until we realize that we are creating most of our own enemies nothing will change. I know all about the various sects and schools of thought in Islam. It's my area of study. The vast majority of Muslims are nonviolent, peaceful people. The problem is the Fundamentalists in every religion who subvert the words of their prophets. America has been working its will in the Middle East for well over a hundred years, without respect for the indigenous people and their culture. Your arrogance, typified by today's Neocons, will be our undoing.
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It is amazing that you wrote a post arguing AGAINST stereotypes while at the same time claiming that "arrogance is typified by today's neocons." ... ... ... ... I completely AGREE with you that stereotypes are wrong. The argument here, in my opinion, is whether any such stereotypes (whether anti-Christian, anti-Muslim, etc...) should be promoted by Hollywood. ... ... ... ... In my opinion, Hollywood needs to get off of their hypocritical, self-righteous ego trips -- and fight ALL forms of bigotry (and not just the ones that agree with their own particular social, political or religious views). Why do Americans distrust Hollywood? ... ... ... ... Because they do their best to dictate what is TRUTH in regards to such beliefs. It is as if they feel that their beliefs are the only ones that matter. This, in my opinion, is dangerous.
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News to me.
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they're a persecuted group of people. Their ideology almost took over three branches of our government (there was a stranglehold on two branches for a while) and they're the most popular religion in the United States. In fact, I bet you far and wide the majority of Americans identify themselves as Christian. Quit bitching about people saying mean things because when you're in the majority you have to contend with minority opinions. It's called freedom of speech. It's true that a lot of Christians are good sports about things. I'm friends with a lot of liberal Christians that are less concerned that the Bible is the literal truth than they are about it being a book of ideals they can live by. The problem itself isn't necessarily Christianity but the radicalized Christians. They're a scary bunch of mofos.
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Although Octavian/Caesar Augustus deserves much awe-inspiring respect, his following is not commensurate to Jesus’ for a reason. The reason the faith took off in its day and still has a following today is because of three big factors: (1) Followers determined and believed that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled predictions made by the ancient Hebrew prophets over a span of centuries concerning the Messiah; (2)His followers believed that the body, which was placed in a guarded tomb ceased to be there because of the resurrection; and (3) the conversion of the Hebrew scholar/church persecutor Paul who – using the Torah and the aforementioned prophets - took the teachings of Jesus throughout the empire, winning converts despite major challenges.Meant to say "...weighs..." instead of "...ways..." in my last post.
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OK, I admit my utter ignorance. You have exposed me and I am ashamed. Can I ever be forgiven? I now kneel before you for edification, forever your compliant supplicant.
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poorly probably should take a look at the Oscar winner two years ago. Million Dollar Baby dealt with faith and even had a positive priest in the story.
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"Although Julius Caesar and Octavian/Caesar Augustus both deserve much awe-inspiring respect, their following is not commensurate to Jesus’ for a reason..."
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don't be such an asshole. That one should keep you busy for a while.
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You are such an eloquent religious-bigot! You're right, it is an example of FREE SPEECH -- no matter how narrow-minded it is! It is sad that you feel that FREE SPEECH entitles you to MOCK something in which you disagree or to group people into stereotypes. Let's just hope the "majority" doesn't join in and return the favor. As you said, they are a "scary bunch of mofos." But you know what -- this is what the argument is about. Is Hollywood too blatant in expressing anti-Christian bigotry while claiming that they stand opposed to intolerance? All forms of intolerance should be frowned upon -- including those that are "political correct" in Hollywood.
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Many people here seem to think most Christians are stuck in the Crusades, needing relics to prove the existance of Jesus and the apostles...but that's not the case for MOST Christians. If you ask the average not nutty/non-radical Christian, they'll probably say they know there is no proof of Jesus's existence or anything the Bible says actually happening, but that it doesn't matter to them, because it's about faith. The only people Cameron will upset are a lot of idiots who don't have any faith in their religion in the first place.
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I quote your earlier post: "The Muslims protest being protrayed as terrorists by making threats, leaving suitcase bombs and attempting to knife editors? World sympathy for Muslims countdown to 3%..." It was that incredibly ignorant statement that promted my assholism. I do sincerely apologize if I've been an asshole, but your apparent narrowmindedness brought it out. For God's sake, the world's sake, we have to try to understand what motivates our "enemies" and it is not as simple as They Are Bad and We Are Good.
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What strange times we live in. I'll stick with the Creed thank you. James Cameron will be capped by Vatican Special Forces very soon...
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...but Cameron's documentary will also upset those of us who are annoyed when a program claims as a FACT what is merely an ASSUMPTION. I loved the DaVinci Code (book)! It was a well-written and thrilling work. But the author (Dan Brown) actually believed the basic premise upon his book was founded -- even when the "evidence" was universally discredited. There is a difference between searching for "evidence" that will validate an already held belief -- and searching for fact. People holding to the former are often easily persuaded. Yikes!
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I read the Holy Blood Holy Grail stuff way before Davinci code. I missed what was discredited.
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Especially if the common behavior ends up being like that of you Christian haters. You guys are too kind. Poacher brings up the best points in the entire acid filled talkback.
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Thanks - tell it to the 10's of thousands in North Korea that are placed in "camps" because they are Christians. Tell it to those who are jailed and executed for their faith in China. Tell it to those in Christians villages in Africa that have been massacred by Muslim raiders. I'll bet they laugh along with you.
As a Christian, I'm curious to see what Cameron's presenting. He's undoubtly shooting himself and his career in the foot, but it will be curious to see what he's got. -
Not to mention sacrelegious.
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You said (quote): "He doesn't want to hear the evidence. The evidence may be shitty, but that doesn't even matter to TP. The mere fact that Cameron even chose to investigate the matter is enough for TP to hate him. Because it's "insensitive", right? Thanks for demonstrating the gaping maw of stupid at the heart of the believer's mind."Well, Fluffy, here's a news flash for your 13-watt dim bulb brain, so try to keep up, ok, Brainiac? It IS insensitive purely BECAUSE the evidence IS so SHITTY and IS so scientifically worthless. But tell you what, asswipe. Let's try applying your same logic to other topics and see how well they fly using your brilliant investigative standards for presenting evidence, shall we?Hmm, how about "Gays are NOT born or genetically inclined to be that way, they're merely giving in to freakish sexual urges and are simply looking to get off any way they can. And frankly the whole "born that way" argument is just a silly charade created by them so they can trick everyone into looking the other way while they DO try to get off in whatever new warped way they've come up with now. Oh, and to prove this, we've compiled a bunch of gay dating data from some hardcore San Francisco gay bars and bath houses, so here's why that assertion MUST be scientifically true..."Boy, here's a hunch. I bet THAT television special would be IMMEDIATELY cancelled and decried as NOT being socially acceptable. Hell, just ask Tim Hardaway how well expressing his personal views went recently. But wait, Fluffy, what about your argument that there's no harm, no foul in simply investigating an idea?Give me a fucking break. Talk about an utter crock of hypocrisy. If someone came out with a TV special like that it would INSTANTLY be labeled "insensitive." So what happened to your whole idea of even hearing "shitty" evidence, Fluffy? I mean, there's plenty of statistical gay bar pick-up stats available. But, gee, funny thing, it's instantly been shut down and WON'T be taken seriously because its "insensitive." Go figure.Oh wait, how about this? "African-Americans ARE lazy underachievers compared to Whites, and here's some statistical data to prove it. We got it by testing poverty level kids in some busted up, rat infested Harlem school, as well as getting further info off some sad ass homeless men and bag ladies we found wandering around. But, hey, they were all Black and in Harlem, so trust us, it's totally scientific and this is why they're inferior..."Nope. Uh-uh. Sorry. Once again it wouldn't be tolerated for a split second and would INSTANTLY be shut down by the media. It would INSTANTLY be branded intolerant and insensitive. Hell, something like that would possibly even be labeled hate speech, which would even make it a crime. Boy, so much for open minds and even "shitty evidence" being heard! Gee, funny how that double standard works, huh?Now before I go on, let me state this VERY clearly. I DO NOT BELIEVE OR ENDORSE THOSE TWO EXAMPLES I JUST CITED, SO I APOLOGIZE IF EVEN TOSSING THEM OUT OFFENDED YOU. I was, however, using them as prime examples of how ridiculous and how out of hand this can easily get if you go by Fluffy's fucked-up statement, which in a truly willy-nilly, no sense at all, completely hap-hazzard way decides "what" counts as being "insensitive."Hell, the very fact that I DID just now include an "apology disclaimer" only goes to prove that I am more willing to do something here that others (given their openly hostile anti-Christian or anti-religion tirades) are NOT willing to do: namely try and BE sensitive towards the feelings of others and BE respectful of other people who might have CHOSEN to include particular beliefs (in this case religious ones) into their lives.And that's why I stand by my point. While the two examples I used (or others like it) would be IMMEDIATELY decried, these days Christian-bashing is totally A-OK. Its not even worth a second glance. It's certainly been declared fair game by the ultra Leftist "intellectuals" of Hollywood as the '08 elections inch closer. In fact, the true crock here is that while these so-called "intellectuals" WILL instantly leap into action and decry attacks on Blacks or Gays or illegal immigrants or even Radical Islamic nutjobs as being "insensitive" or "intolerant" (because, you know, Islamic terrorists are really just misunderstood people and America really is to blame for all the world's woes), the utter crock here is that they WON'T apply those same standards towards anti-Christian speech or towards respecting the beliefs OF Christians. And based on posts I'm seeing here about Christianity overall and about those who simply made a personal CHOICE in life to believe in something, once again we see what utter bullshit hypocrites you "intellectuals" really are.In short, Orwell was right and some of you just ache to practice his ANIMAL FARM manifesto. Namely all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others -- most certainly if it means YOU come out on top. So in this case you DON'T believe in God or organized religion...therefore Christian (or even general religion) bashing is ok...which means going by Fluffy's logic Cameron's stunt is NOT "insensitive" to anyone....and in the end it should be totally welcomed with open loving arms, NO questions asked.Oh, and NO dissenting voices will be allowed either. So you actual Christians who believe in that medieval voodoo God and Jesus stuff, just shut up and sit down. We don't want to hear from you an, so as of now you'll have no say and no input on this matter. And obviously there's no such thing as being "insensitive" towards Christians since you believe in crap anyways.You know, Fluffy, Zacdilone in his post was right about you: Most arrogant quote ever. Because that's some truly hypocritical and ass-backwards thinking you've got going on there. In fact its SO ass-backwards and upside down, here's a friendly tip. Try to remember the next time you generate so much crap, you really ARE supposed to reach down and wipe your ass, and not your face. Though both seem to spew an equal amount of shit, so maybe you should wipe both just to be careful...
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read my post again and notice that I'm talking about America. It's true that Christians are persecuted around the globe (along with just about every other religion) and it's also true that it's just plain wrong. Everyone should be able to practice their belief so long as it doesn't interfere with others (human sacrifices would probably be overstepping those bounds). What I'm talking about is the fact that a portion of Christians believe they are being persecuted when are not. Many of them even appropriate civil rights language. Just because Christianity is not endorsed as the national religion does not mean that Christians are being actively persecuted.
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History shows Christianity has done just as much damage to people as any other religion. There have been massive Christian pograms of everyone from Jews to native peoples all over the world.
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tell 'em.
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I'm glad to see a few talkbackers citing Natalis Invictus and some of the other myths behind Christianity. Good stuff, like how eating meat on Friday's used to be a sin. "Hmm, the butcher cut meat on monday, we ate meat all week and were fine. But, by friday we eat meat and we're all sick. Logically, God must think it's a sin to eat meat on Fridays!" Then along comes the refridgerator and God no longer cares about that shit. Interesting, almost as those these were people who had limited knowledge of the ways of the world and needed to explain things to their kids.
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As if “the left” calling their political opposites, or whomever, stupid is something that the right doesn’t do? That’s a two-way street if there ever was. I was just up in NYC and I didn’t notice anyone on Broadway street corners shouting out “Christian’s and conservatives are stupid!” I’m a moderate, myself, yet I find that more and more, I just can’t have a conversation about anything remotely political with my to-the-right colleagues because all they do is regurgitate the Republican Party catechisms and bumper-sticker slogans yet, here it comes, they insist I’m “stupid.” It’s like talking to a tape recorder set on infinite playback. I’m mostly conservative but am now considered “far to the left” because I think going into Iraq was just plain stupid on both a tactical and strategic level. Besides, even if Cameron finds the bones of Jesus or not, it still doesn’t prove that “God is spelled GOP!” That or any other horse doody claims of some of the religious right. Now there’s a nice bumper sticker slogan for you to use.
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Using that same perspective, you could argue that ATHEISM killed multiplied millions (since Stalin and Mao Zedong were devout atheists). Of course, this would equate to lunacy. Individuals calling themselves "christian" have performed terrible acts (such as the 200,000 Muslims killed during the Roman Crusades). However, the religion of Christianity has NEVER embraced any such violence. Rather, the religion itself embraced "turning the other cheek."
... ... ... ... The point is that we should all be careful before mocking Christians and Christianity (or other religions) -- and Hollywood should refrain from participating in religious bigotry against ANY diety, peaceful religion or sacred religious belief. But like we said before, much of Hollywood feels quite safe in portraying Christianity in an overall negative light. Their "tolerance" seems to extend only toward those who agree with their own social, political or religious views (or lack thereof). Either way, hypocritical bigotry seems uglier than typical bigotry done in ignorance. -
The Left, or progressives, or whatever, has always called conservatives, orthodox, traditionalists, etc. "stupid." Of course the Right calls the left stupid, but not usually...It's the nature of the movement...old views are "outdated" and a waste of time, they should be disregarded, they're stupid...so says the Left. I mean I can't point to any study that shows that the majority of people on the Left calls the Right stupid, but it just seems like commonsense. I mean most of the writers of the Enlightenment (Voltaire for example) mocked the views of many "conservatives" as stupid. It's the nature of the beast. Accept it.
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Actually, Lincoln sent envoys to the Middle East to see if there was anything useful to us. His involvement was small, to be sure, but it was a beginning to our involvement in that region. It wasn't oil, obviously, that interested us then, but I'm not shoveling shit. Just because you haven't heard of us being there 150 years ago doesn't mean we weren't. Certainly our inolvement was small, but the seeds had been planted...
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I've reading the talkbacks and one called my atention
of course I deeply hate religion and I am absolutly convinced that the world would be a better place without it, but that's beside the point, some people are posting that this is insulting, if somehow JC proved this to be real, IS IT INSULTING TO SAY THAT A LIE IS A LIE?? EVEN IS THAT LIE IS HELD IN HIGH REGARD BY SOME PEOPLE? I just don't understand why people can get upset about this, if JC is wrong he will be humilliated and become a laughing stock, but if he is right that will iluminated people and remove them from ignorance and darkness, for example if someone told you that your mother is not your real nother and that your are adopted, wouldn't you like to know the truth, even if you love your fake mom? -
Oh don't get me wrong...I have very little respect for the Left, ha. I totally think they are the idiots...But since when is calling someone a liberal the same thing as calling them "stupid." I'm talking about people on the Left actually calling conservatives stupid. I mean just look at the comments on youtube on any conservative video...or look at the way the Left treats President Bush like an idiot...I mean it's relentess...You're living in a hole if you think otherwise.
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That's James Cameron, not the other JC, is simply putting on a bit of a PT Barnum act. It's show business as usual to trowel the taboo waters.
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all religions are mythology. you're looking at it from the perspective that "mythology=fake" but I'm using the definition of mythology I was taught in, oh...6th grade--"other people's religious stories." Obviously some of it has been inflated. doesn't matter if he was real or not. Heck, even if he is/was the son of G-d, there are some details that change between the Gospels which logically allows for inflation of fact.
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You dont preserve something for thousands of years and then hand it over to a film director for publicity for his next film.
Watch out for the Vatican assassins Mr. Cameron...espcially the Albino ones. -
Me thinks that was Jimmy's first thought that morning. Mmm, we already did Titanic. But hey, that Danny Brown stuff was inspiring. Jump on, jump on, it's the bandwagon!
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if you really think that Christians are being treated with prejudice, than you are incredibly diluted. come back when "evil Hollywood liberals" attack you on a street corner, shove a gun in your mouth and leave you with giant scars on your head that never stop itching. then come back when it happens more than once. until then, kindly shut the fuck up about "intolerance." someone making fun of zealots is not the same thing as real intolerance. I know, first hand.
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All major religions are just a bunch of folktales and myths designed to promote a particular brand of "acceptable" behavior.
Shhhh....don't tell anyone! -
If someone wants to investigate the genetic basis of homosexuality, GREAT. And people have been investigating whether IQ is heritable for literally decades. The simple fact of the matter is that the world view of Christianity relies on a historical narrative of events that either did, or did not, occur the way Christians claim. And those historical claims are subject to analysis and criticism. You just don't get to put a fence around them and say, "These are sacred to us, so no one talk about them or consider whether or not they make any sense." Tough. There are people in the world who think the Earth is flat, too. That doesn't mean it's "intolerant" or "insensitive" to circumnavigate the globe. By the way, a famous person once said that he dreamed of a world where all persons were judged only by the content of their character. Well, a person's "character" consists of their actions, their thoughts, and their beliefs. There can be no such thing as "bias" against Christians, because when you judge someone on the basis of what they themselves identify as their core beliefs, you are absolutely, positively judging them on the basis of their character. "Wah! But these are my beliefs!" So what?
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There is a difference between openly mocking what you refer to as "zealots" and hateful bigotry. Hollywood has embraced an open-ended bigotry toward Christianity. This includes mocking the beliefs and diety of the religion. While Hollywood (and other members of the left) campaign for "tolerance" toward social groups they agree with (such as gays) -- they embrace the mockery of the Christian religion as "FREE SPEECH." That, my AICN friend, is disgusting hypocrisy. Besides, quite a bit of the posts here are not attacking "zealots" -- but attacking the diety and sacred beliefs of the religion. This is wrong -- regardless of which religion is being mocked.
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Let's see God is perfect and made the Universe. James Cameron is imperfect and made Piranha II: The Spawning. I'm going to have to go with God's version of the story on this one.
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I think a person's world-view directly influences their actions, and therefore it is completely reasonable to question and evaluate that worldview. However, I disagree with your claim that there can be no "bias" against Christians. The simple fact of the matter is that most academics, people in Hollywood, etc, would like nothing more than to disprove Christianity. Why? Many different reasons, but it goes partly back to Nietzsche and later Frued. On one hand I think it justifies their own behavior, freeing them of any notion of right/wrong, good/evil. Hollywood and the media like anything that is shocking and threatens the status quo (I'm sure there is a psychological basis for this), and since Christianity is THE epitome of the tradition/orthodoxy/ the status quo in the West, it represents a perfect target for those people. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous, I'm sorry.
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just because a 4000 year old book of Jewish folk wisdom says so? (and the old testament has no pretense of being written by G-d, by the way.) and there is a difference between mocking a minority and mocking a majority group. when Christianity is attacked, it is a salvo being fired at the establishment, the status quo. Christians can look around and say, gee whiz, none of my good white bread WASPY neighbors are like that. and realize that it is a joke, not even directed at the religion, but at the way society is organized. When a Jewish character, lets say...oh...all of them in The Passion of the Christ, is depicted as an evil, money grubbing hook nosed, sweaty browed, thick lipped Amos and Andy level stereotype, the intent is different.
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So just how big of an apology do you think James Cameron will make when this is all proven false and blows up in his face? How about Time? I'm betting in a few weeks this is going to look real silly and Jame will not have the decency to admit his hateful mistake.
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All those Jews are depicted as evil...except for Jesus, Mary, his 12 disciples, Mary Magdalene...I mean everyone except them, of course.
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No, all bigotry is wrong in practice. It is just hypocritical that Hollywood claims to preach tolerance for everyone -- EXCEPT Christianity, southerners and conservatives. A person doesn't have to agree with a lifestyle, religion, practice, etc... (such as Christianity or homosexuality). However -- it is hypocritical to promote "tolerance" while embracing the mockery of a particular religion or religious practitioners. Worse, such hate is done in the name of "FREE SPEECH."
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"Doh! Ok, back to the drawing board with the Indy script, everyone. So, anyone's got any other idea?"
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Think about this. Jesus’ tomb was a well known location 2000 years ago. We have independent (non-church) historical accounts that Jesus was a real person who was crucified by the Romans. We also have historical documents dated to within 30 years of Jesus’ death which talk about Christians bragging openly of Jesus’ resurrection. The Romans would have liked nothing more than to go to the tomb and produce a corpse to prove them wrong, but they couldn’t. It is recorded the tomb was empty, even the Romans claim the tomb was empty. They could have put a corpse back in after the fact, but that would have been silly. Imagine the Disciples choosing to die horrible deaths as martyrs rather than recant Jesus had risen from the dead if they knew it was a lie. Cameron’s claims are so transparent and easily falsifiable I can’t believe he is willing to subject himself to such embarrassment. But it will get him a butt load of press.
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they were "converts" come on, you ever read a book on film theory? the whole movie was shot from the direct perspective of Jesus. Often with shots angled so that either WE were Jesus, or the people beating Jesus. So, you have the pretty white people as the converted Christians, and all the evil, ugly looking Jews. Your note only reinforces my point.
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if the system is corrupt, and the Christian faith is in charge of the system it is logical Synecdoche to use Christianity as a representation of "the system" or "the system" as a representation of Christianity. While something like "Wonder Showzen" is definitely angry specifically at Christians, most things you are interpreting as "anti-Christian bigotry" are simply representations of anger and disaffection with the society. not Christianity. they are much more layered than you give credit for. The creative process works almost exclusively in metaphor. If you say it out right, it's no longer art.
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Feb 25, 2007 2:58:57 PM CST
Thank you for admitting that I'm right, halfbreedqueen
by phillipmarlowe
It shows a lot of class. "You know, actually now that I think about it you're right, the right doesn't call the liberals idiots..." I love being right.
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Prove me wrong. If you're going to use wikipedia as a source, you have to take it in the pooper when it's used right back against you. And it's not like the Muslims were introduced to meddling with other countries by the Iraq debacle-see the country of India for that example.
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the end...of HIGH PRICES!!!
follow the bones of Jesus for all your discount shopping needs -
In the time of the ancestors, a man was born to a virgin mother with no biological father being involved.
The same fatherless man called out to a friend called Lazarus, who had been dead long enough to stink, and Lazarus promptly came back to life.
The fatherless man himself came alive after being dead and buried three days.
Forty days later, the fatherless man went up to the top of a hill and then disappeared bodily into the sky.
If you murmur thoughts privately in your head, the fatherless man, and his "father" (who is also himself) will hear your thoughts and may act upon them. He is simultaneously able to hear the thoughts of everybody else in the world.
If you do something bad, or something good, the same fatherless man sees all, even if nobody else does. You may be rewarded or punished accordingly, including after your death.
The fatherless man's virgin mother never died but "ascended" bodily into heaven.
Bread and wine, if blessed by a priest (who must have testicles), "become" the body and blood of the fatherless man.
Thanks to Dawkins for the prior examples. -
Someone had to take this pretentious, self-righteous asshole down sooner or later, and if that person turns out to be himself, all the better. What a moron. Has he never heard of Mel Gibson?
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phillipmarlowe write, "to suggest otherwise is ridiculous..."I learned in 9th grade debate that this is the weakest way to argue a point. funny stuff. even in a talkback I expect a little more brain activity...
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No pun intended. But James Cameron really has lost it.
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to inherit super powers...i'd watch a movie about that
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peace between God and man. Not between man and man. Men are not good, haven't you noticed?
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what can a DNA test of those bones prove is that they are related, and which is their relation, so if there's a 2000 year tomb near jerusalem, with remains identified as jesus, mary, joseph, etc, it could be a coincidence (very unlikely however)like some people point out those were usual names back then, but if DNA testing of the remains proves that they are related in the way we think, then that pretty much proves it's them, it would be almost imposible that there was another family of that period in that area, with a mother name mary, a father name joseph, a son name jesus and a non-blood relative called mary magdalene all buried on the same tomb, so there you have it
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if she is there, the da vinci code is wrong, just as the holy church said
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making these kinds of claims for a long, long time. Longer than James Cameron has been around.
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the ones created thousands of years ago, BC, when all sorts of Godly folks played poker and chatted with people regularly, christianity, judaism, muslim, buddhism, hinduism are all chill, it's those religions created hundreds of years ago that seem more like people out to make money, protestant, mormon, even cults like scientology i mean wtf!?
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I bow down to your superior 9th grade debating skills!!! THANK YOU for enlightening me with your incredible oration!!!! I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT AND IT IS BADMRWONKA. Go fuck yourself, dude.
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Now all Cameron needs to do is to contact Don King.Or Carl Denim.
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This could alter a number of perceptions. Like Jesus having a motherfucking SON. Too bad the whole Easter thing means bunk now.
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They're easy to mix up.
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For the love of god, Cameron, do not intentionally commit career suicide. Doing something so intentionally stupid is nothing like Cameron, and that's why I call bullshit on th entire article.
Would Cameron really have his name over a find like this? The entire scientific community and historians worldwide dicredited this find almost 20 years ago!
James, DON'T BE AN IDIOT. -
You are probably right. Of course James will record the youtube video from inside Noah's Ark.
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More like total fucking destruction oh his career.
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will wait to see what it turns out of this. if the doco is right i wont care much. if it is wrong i wont care much. i just saw the exodus doco and found it quite entertaining and sounded like truthful to me. of course, it pretty much eliminates god of the equation. imho
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That would probably be the single most awesome headline of the century. If people can authenticate this, maybe Easter will be cancelled this year? Good news, Lent fasters--go 'head and hit Burger King! Maybe now St. Patricks Day will completely pwn the Spring holiday season as it was meant to.
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First of all, I did a little research and found out that James is only co-producing the film, with the director, Simcha Jacobovici, being a Jew.
Simcha Jacobovici produced Exodus decoded in an attempt to prove the Exodus tale of the Old Testatment, with the Jesus Crypt attempting to debunk the New Testament.
Simple logic here people. Put two and two together.
James, you are above this bullshit. Do not ruin your career over one biased director. -
BTW, I was referring to the "Carl Denim" character from KING KONG (I was attempting to slyly include another "king" in my joke).
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I'll admit I'm partly screwing with you, but I stand by what I said. Don't take my word for it, here are two (reasonable) liberals/non-conservatives arguing the same point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYe8QzmM798
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...then that would be awesome if James Cameron came out to the press conference in a suit singing "I'm bringing Jesus back. The Mormons don't know how to act. I think it's special what's behind my back. Passion of The Christ with a second act."
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Even if it's just something that shows on The Discovery channel, it'll still be cool to see Jesus in HD.
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That's an unfortunate choice.
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trouble brewing
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....What would Xenu do?
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...When Cameron found the bodies there were these strange pods in the cave. One burst open and a tiny John the Baptist fastened itself around his head. It dried up and fell off after awhile, but I would say odds are pretty good that a Messiah is going to be bursting through Cameron's chest at the news conference tomorrow. Game over, man. Game over.
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It was like 200 posts up so I want to make it again. Here goes: It would be one thing if these coffins proved an existing theory about how Jesus died, but this is BRAND NEW and radically different from anything we have ever heard before. Sure, we have all read or watched the Da Vinci code, but nobody has ever said that Jesus was buried with like 12 other people in his family. Or am I wrong here? What I am trying to say is that I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that there wouldn't be rumors about something like this even IF the Catholic church tried to cover it up. I mean after all, we all know about the book of "thomas" or whatever that was, right? There would just be way too many people involved to bury 10-12 people and NOT have that leak out.
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...I guess it was after Titanic, Cameron lost himself. Making movies wasn't big enough for him anymore and he had to be something more. This has a lot more to do with Cameron than Christ.
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let me get this right.. you are saying that if the people in the tomb are related to each other, then that's Jesus and his family? That's crazy. Who's to say those are the real names of these people? Maybe someone just put those names on there, for whatever reason. I wouldn't speculate on why, but unless you have Jesus' DNA (or Mary's) to match this against, this is impossible to prove.
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I still think he's presenting the documentary about the find and what it could mean - and not actually claiming it to be Jesus and company. But, by having the story come out this way, he's going to get a tidal wave on attention that he really hasn't had in years. I mean, what better way to ressurect your career than a photo-op with Christ?
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Just think what jesus would think!
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I said in a post a while back that Cameron is a pretty shrewd fellow and I really couldn't believe that he'd actually slit his own throat career-wise, all to go through with a totally lame-ass PR stunt that's completely lacking in scientific fact and worst of all that is THIS emotionally divisive and hate-filled. In the back of my head I kept thinking maybe this was one giant PR joke on all of us, and come Monday when Cameron showed up at the press conference he'd REALLY say "No, no, I'm not here about Jesus. But now that I DO have everyone's attention, I do have some really cool 3D Man-Cat test footage to show you..."But I guess that won't be happening. On Fox News they literally just did a bit on Cameron and it's already not looking pretty. So I guess this really IS going down and Jimbo really IS looking to piss off a helluva lot of people and really IS willing to commit some degree of career suicide. So seriously, a show of hands -- based on how heated this talkback alone has gotten, who's still silly enough to believe that once Cameron declares to all the world "Yep! Christianity's based on a lie, Jesus was simply a married guy, he had a kid, he never ascended, and I have the bones to prove it" that there won't be some fucking SERIOUS anger and outrage, much of it calling for his head, which the media will only exploit and fan the flames of anger even more? Potentially making this get REALLY ugly REALLY fast?Me, I'm still predicting that this could blow up exactly like the public outrage over Judith Regan's OJ book/TV special and that once enough people get pissed off and very, very vocal about, that this could cause Murdoch to order Fox to pull the plug on AVATAR completely so that all corporate ties with Cameron are severed to appease the hostile public (and shareholders) at large.Then again maybe that's what this is really about. Given TITANIC's success, maybe even Cameron's bloated whale-like ego can't handle the stress of actually making a follow-up film since he already knows people will be looking to tear him and it down in a very big way, so now he's actually LOOKING for something that will generate enough bad publicity that it will kill his film and he WON'T have to make it. At which point he can use the art of distraction and point the finger of blame at all those "Jesus freaks and religious nuts" who in turn "ruined him and kept him down" and who thus prevented him from making a follow-up film. Hmm, maybe Cameron really is that shrewd guy and master manipulator I mentioned at the start after all!
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I guess it all depends on how big the media wants to make a deal about this. I think it's beyond bad taste for Cameron to do this at the beginning of the holiest and most sacred period in the Christian year. What a jackass this guy is. Will I watch his movies in the future? Well.. if he doesn't respect me, why should I respect him? And i'm VERY moderate when it comes to things like this.
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Feb 25, 2007 8:20:49 PM CST
Oh yeah and Terminator 3 mopped up a lot of Cameron's..
by cotton mcknight
screwups. There, I said it.
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or something like that....
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Just as Alien 3 fucked Aliens over.
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he would be dead by sunrise. They would fatwah his ass like there was no tomorrow.
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A.) This is either Cameron's desperate attempt to resurrect (sorry, couldn't resist) his dead career,
B.) Or this story is a total steaming heap! -
The problem with Hollywood lay with the hypocrisy. They proclaim "tolerance" but spew bigotry and ridicule toward anyone that doesn't agree with them. They teach that children are important -- but they allow dirt to be peddled toward children. They claim that the right is controlled by rich corporate Americans -- yet they are the largest donors to political parties (well, namely ONE party in particular). ... ... ... There is nothing wrong with exerting influence of opinion. However, the media seems to have become public speech of the left. ... ... ... ... Even in this, Hollywood is within their rights. However, they are in grave need of respect for those with whom they simply do not agree with. A difference in opinion (about religion, politics or social morals) should not result in the televised mockery of others. There is room in America for all views -- and we should spit on those with whom we disagree. If Hollywood celebs don't realize this soon, then they will be in for a rude, financial awakening.
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Feb 25, 2007 10:00:44 PM CST
The irony here to anyone watching the Oscars being...
by triumph poops!
Genro asked, "Isn't he doing this just to trump post-Oscar news?", the irony being that Cameron's ego is there TOO tonight and its still making sure he remains on top...literally. Anyone notice in the wide shots outside the Kodak Theater that atop the auditorium tonight they've hung a huge-ass banner that declares "I'm the King of the World!"?Of course the other ironic thought that crossed my mind while watching the show so far came early on, when they had Ellen and a large religious choir run out and sing in the aisles like a revival gathering. I guess tomorrow when Cameron stages his lame PR stunt and officially takes a dump on Christianity, now everyone in Hollywood will feel they can throw their hands up and say "Hey, hey, hey! Don't aim any anger this way! Don't go hurting MY box office and don't lump ME in with that egotistical nut! See? I actually LIKE religion!"
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"So does this mean that it's nothing more than a cruci-fiction?"
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wasn't there a script for a movie being floated around about ten years ago called "The Sky is falling", about some archaeologists who find proof that there is no God, and the Vatican sends some assassins out after him?
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James, What are you doing?
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Things like, gee, uh, I dunno... finishing a movie, maybe? No, I said a MOVIE. Not another documentary on the Titanic that cost $12 million to make and then earned $87.50. A MOVIE, asshole. Geesh.
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"fatwa his ass like there was no tomorrow" is the best post/line I've read anywhere about anything in at least the last year.
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fuck up any christian ideas that he ascended into heaven, wouldn't it?
Oh how I love a good bubble bursting. -
James, if you go ahead with this, well, all I cay is prepare to face the wrath of the almighty Jack Van Impe.
Ye shall be as owned. -
Though, I kind of wish it would because I've never been impressed by his movies. But think about this peeps: if Mel Gibson can make blanket statements about the Jews AND call a cop "Sugartits", and Tom Cruise can say that psychiatry is a sham and openly believe that an alien emperor sent airplanes full of alien criminals to volcanos during the time of the dinosaurs (and those aliens' ghosts make us do bad things), and neither of them get any major backlash from the public, then Cameron's story will be the same. People will either say, "He's right! You've all been living lies!" or "He's wrong! I'll maintain my faith!" and then he'll make a movie and all these talkbacks will make jokes about Jesus' coffin when the movie comes out.
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But I dare James Cameron to make a big announcement that Muhammed was talking out of his arse the whole time. At least that's probably true.
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The extended report reveals the "docu" to be nothing more than the standard supposition of TV fare these days. Folks, you're giving Cameron and this "docu" FAR too much credit. This ain't earth-shattering, or religion-busting. Just great fodder for chat rooms, and our current media virus.
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Take off your Klingon masks, put away your plastic Light Sabers, and go back to masturbating to freebie online porn. Time to talk movies again.
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It's a metaphor. It's not real. Jeez.
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Damn, I always thought of him as some superhero slash wizard, like a cross between Superman and Gandalf, walking around sayn' stuff like "Come on to the Lord or thou will be death-rayetht by mine eyes!". Jebus used to be Teh Shit man! And now he's just a fucking corpse?? Damn you James Cameron!!
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Dammit, all whining Christian blockheads need to be slapped in the face, so they'll come to their senses. Then all the other religious boneheads need to be slapped too!I AM SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of all this religious BS. Religion is overrated. Period.
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...I forgot I was speaking to Mr. Know-it-all who just happens to also hold the distinct title of Mr. Always Right Man. Question: Is that the Goodyear blimp? Nah, it's just PM's ego...get over yourself. If you think name calling, including "stupid," isn't loosely thrown by both sides then you lack even the most rudimentary ability for objectivity and observation. Keep those blinders clean.
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This kinda came out of nowhere didn't it? As if it's an "And in other news...." story, like catchin a giant squid on film, OH AND WE'VE UNEARTHED THE BONES OF WHAT WE ARE CLAIMING IS JESUS CHRIST AND HIS CREW. SSERIOUSLY. I'll watch the press conference though, will be a shit storm thou, especially if James Cameron actually has some back up to this claim.
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of shit. there's no way you could find jesus' body even you don't believe in the resurrection. any so called body of jesus is a fake. there is no way to prove otherwise.
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This has got to be a joke? What next, George Lucas finds the remains of Uncle Ben & Aunt Beru?
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That is all.
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This is a reply to that idiot CTU Mole:
First up what the hell have the jews got to do with this project anyways?
And secondly dont talk about great men like Jesus (p) with disrespect fool. -
Focus all of your attention on your fantasy/sci-fi flicks, not this. Just hand it over to National Geographic, will you? As a huge James Cameron fan, I'm "covering my eyes" on this one.
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He's going to make a fortune selling those bones on eBay. The interesting part will be seeing who wins the bidding war between Caesar's Palace and Michael Jackson.
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He's going to make Mel Gibson very angry. He won't like Mel when he's angry....or drunk.
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Almost time for the big conference! It's time to take your last look at James Cameron before he make it on the front page of the National Enquirer and TMZ 's website for the next 50 years!!!
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Please use a sample for the first test of a human clone. That would be hellacrazy.
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He's just trying to sell tickets to his stupid movie. He's nothing more than a modern day P.T. Barnum who likes to expose his athiest beliefs
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Said, "Hey boy, get a sweater - right NOW!"
Modestmousetradamous has spoken. -
This is an idea I had years ago for a story. Please someone who is a better write than me look into this... We take blood from the Shroud of Turin, analyze the DNA, clone Jesus. Is there a soul? Anti-christ? The implications are crazy. It could be a Choose Your Own Adventure book that'd pander to both the cynics and the zealots. It's genius!
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Why do I suddenly think that Linda Hamilton was the sane one in their relationship?
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how would they expect people to believe it? just look at all the nutters who belive in the bible, quaran tora etc.... people will buy any nonsense thrown at them these days....
i am much more prone to believe james cameron than the christian church - who have proved that 1/2 the bible is complete lies. -
Well? When is this supposed to go down, or did the media already dismiss it for the poorly constructed PR attempt that it is?
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He seems to have been backing off, even with Marxist Viera doing her best to try and get him to say he's debunked Christianity. The guy he's with is a glorified carnival barker, and I cannot believe Cameron would do this, relying on statiticians (?!), to make such a big case. It goes to show how totally out of whack he's ego is, to think he could make this claim and not be ridiculed. This was a very, very arrogant move on his part and while it might not derail his career, he's proven he's nothing more than a movie director, no matter what his brother at NASA might say.
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11 AM
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Where are the corpses?
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The film that you are talking about was going to be called something like "It Fell from the Sky". It was about a couple of Cockney vicars from an undisclosed Christian faith who find the remains of God (fuck knows what that would have looked like) in a dig in East london and decide that as there is no longer a God it does not matter what they do, so they go on a killing spree across America, whilst sodomising people, including each other, so the vatican sends an assasin after them. I have always thought it sounds like an amazing idea for a film (I even have most of the soundtrack worked out), but I think Dan Brown sort of stole/ruined the whole Vatican Assasin thing, and that would have been one of the really cool things about it. Wanker.
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They covered the story but not the conference yet.
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I remember all about this film. They were snorting cocaine off the bible and everything. I'd like to see it, but no studio wanted to touch it.
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Rob and Amber came in first AGAIN!
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Even if Cameron were to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no god, ten minutes later some bible thumper would find a passage in the bible that he can manipulate into saying that Cameron is the son of satan, and he should be killed. That's the thing about christians... they can make the bible say anything they want it to say. Do you really think that every single species of animal on earth was put on a boat, and the distributed to different continents? And there's a reason that Jesus is called a shephard and christians are called the sheep...
It's because they will blindly follow something... even when it's bullshit. -
...it's about the message, something I think has been sorely overlooked by 2000+ years of Biblical wrangling and European power struggles. The Message is what's important, not the man. While I'm not a Christian - or even a religious man at all, really - I think that Jesus the Christ as the resurrected Son of God, has been overhyped and overemphasized, and that the message of goodwill, honesty, selflessness and courage has been misplaced and forgotten. It's going to sound odd, but I believe that Jesus was a real guy, just an ordinary human, and I believe he really had these beliefs that people should be good and honest and courageous (considering the poor guy was flying in the face of the all-powerful Roman Empire, I figure he had to be a pretty courageous guy), but I believe that the whole "died and was reborn" schtick was created and played up by folks wanting power and authority, not so much good people trying to do good things. It's like this: who's the braver superhero, Superman or Batman? Sounds stupid, but there's an analogy here. Superman comes to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. Sound familiar? Superman's origin story is, actually, so close to the Christ story that it's both sad and scary...but I digress. So, he goes forth and does good in the world, and is selfless, and honest, and courteous and courageous and pure. He's a good guy, yeah? So, he fights crime and does good deeds. The only thing that can stop him, since he's an alien and all, is this weird, rare (in the revised chronology, anyway) green rock from his home planet. Okay, he can't turn water into wine, but again with the digressing. Then, you've got Batman: ordinary human guy Bruce Wayne. He fights crime every night, goes up against sinister baddies, and something as simple as a bad infection from a knife wound could take him down. Still, he goes out fighting every night, trying to stop crime and protect the innocent. Granted, their motives may differ, but who's the braver superhero, Superman or Batman? In the end, it doesn't matter who's stronger, or braver, or more powerful. It's the message that matters: stand, fight, protect the innocent, defend the helpless, do what's right. Who's cooler - the invulnerable guy from outer space, or the normal guy on a mission - becomes irrelevant. It's the message that matters. I really hope that these *are* the tombs of Jesus, Mary and the whole wacky Christ family...frankly the Christian world needs to be set on its ass and set back on the narrow path. Still, maybe they'll realize that it really is just the message that matters, not the man, or the God, or the Son of God. Or, maybe they'll hang James Cameron from the highest steeple. Looking back at history, I'm betting on the latter, but I hope that cooler heads, and better angels, prevail.
End of line. -
to get the blood going in these talkbacks. Mind if I chime in with a few thoughts?
1) Everybody seems to be railing about tolerance, judgment, and character assassination, but nobody seems yet to have noticed that the documentary HASN'T BEEN ARIED YET. For cryin' out loud, people, can't you at least withhold judgment until the friggin' thing sees the light of day, and you can then hold on to that precious tolerance you seem to value so much?
2) I speak as a believer and a minister, and I'd like to respond to those who so flippantly refer to all religion as fantasy or fiction: faith is indeed largely personal and intuitive, but is also based on the fact that we have come by our faith through the intervention of an outside influence. It is the God of love who initiates and makes the first move, and our faith - not religion, mind you, but faith - is a response to that love. Rail on if you want to, but if you can't find something - or someone - bigger than yourself to live for, then what motivates you to make this world a better place, if we have nothing to look forward to after we die? What purpose and meaning can we lay claim to if love is only temporary, if our shortcomings are forgotten and our best efforts are squandered or lost, if we are truly the only source for law and goodness? Say what you like about religion, but at least those who believe have something to live for and look forward to that is greater than ourselves. Most people care only about three things: their next dollar, their next meal, and the next time they get laid. THAT'S a reason for living? No thanks - I'll take the "fantasy", thank you very much.
3) Cameron will survive the storm, and you all will still be first in line when Avatar comes out. -
that's my impression of the media reports of the press conference. i get the sense that cameron really isn't that bothered about religion one way or another, but he's seen how well the passion of the christ and the da vinci code did, and he figured it was a good investment...
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I want to agree with what the previous poster said. I watched the MSNBC interview and James Cameron seemed totally subdued, timid and just plain out of character. He stressed over and over that he was no theologian, and that he was a filmmaker. He was respectful and stated that it was simply a project he help fund because he believed in the initial findings. I give credit for Jim for realizing he's made a mistake and attempting to distance himself from this nutcase Isralie wannabe reporter.
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Feb 26, 2007 10:58:08 AM CST
They found a tomb with the names "Jesus," "Mary," and..
by ccchhhrrriiisssm
..."Judah?!?" ... ... ... ... Isn't that like finding a grave that reads John, Mary and Steve? Those are VERY common Jewish names in the first century. In fact, Jesus' name (Yeshua - literally a variant of 'Joshua') was so common, it was translated as "Jesus" to differentiate it from "Joshua." I found a tombstone in Virginia with the name George and Martha. DNA test proved that the corpses were Anglo. Using this logic, this must be the final resting place of George Washington!!! It doesn't matter that we have found his REAL grave (just like the millions that visit Christ's tomb outside of Jerusalem). ... ... ... ... I thought that there was going to be something at least remotely intelligent in this report -- but it was based upon some very ambitious, not-so-intelligent reporters?!? :o
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...this "find" has already be harshly discredited by REAL archeologists. ... .... ...
http:// news.yahoo.com /s/ap/20070226/ap_en_tv/jesus_s_burial
... .... ... -
Surely, if it is Jebus' bones, the DNA will show that he only has the genes of the mother and be missing a significant number of strands, seeing as his actual father (g-d/himself) is a non-corporeal being. Or possiblt that the body will have distinctly non-human strands of DNA? I dunno, I'm not a geneticist, but that's what I'd think.
Plus, why are so many christians actually bothered about this at all? It shouldn't change their views in the slightest, regardless of what the findings are, as religion is a matter of faith anyway and needs, nor should need, proof either way? -
..Let's not forget that the name "Jesus" is pretty fu**ing used in Mexico right now and no one is jumping around to say they've discovered the tomb of THE Jesus... So I agree that the names were way too common to make a big deal out of this! Cameron is a fool for jumping in, it just proves that he has so much money that he can't even judge on where to put it... Call in the loony bin! Linda Hamilton was in fact the sanest of the two... Incredible...
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Why are Christians actually bothered? It is because the religion teaches that Christ died and then physically rose again. Bones of Jesus would equate to a "false religion." Of course, we know that this "documentary" is a really stupid scam -- already debunked by a majority of REAL scientists, historians and archeologists. The offense is similar to the offense that comes from the crazy president of Iran holding a ridiculous conference that debated the existence of the Ha-Shoah (Holocaust) -- even offering "proof" that it was exaggerated (which we know that the "proof" was silly). The offense is probably even stronger for Christians because it questions the diety of Christ -- which is universally accepted in mainstream Christian churches. ... ... ... ... This probably will go down as one of the all time dumbest moves for both the Discovery Channel and James Cameron. Americans who didn't realize it before will discover that the Discovery Channel is not very academic or scholarly in their programs, and James Cameron will appear as an opportunist following the same red herrings as The Da Vinci Code (which author Dan Brown actually believed). *Sigh.
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I love James Cameron's work, but this project makes me nervous. Not because he claims to have found the bones of Jesus Christ in a cave, but because I think he's wrong to believe the corporeal Jesus Christ ever existed.
That's right, I said it. I'll catch all kinds of flack for this, but I'm of the opinion the Christian Jesus Christ never existed. If you think I'm crazy, check out: rookthehistorian.blogspot.com or any of the other sites presenting solid evidence that Christ was a fictional creation. You can call me crazy if you want, which is fine, but I try to base my beliefs on evidence not faith. Dismiss me if you wish.
I'm more fired up for "Avatar". -
So, basically, if bones of jesus were found, in the future say, christianity would fall? So much for faith, then. It shouldn't matter if someone found "proof" for or against any religion. Religion is based on faith and no amount of evidence, either way, should make a blind bit of difference!
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Ok, so the king of the world bagged Jesus's bones. Big deal. I think it has even occured to anyone, secular or theologian that a ressurection is not a free ticket to imortalality. It just means he got to die again and maybe again and again and again.
The resurection can also be interpreted at a transfiguration and again so what. James Cameron is nothing more then a Hollywood circus freak with a bone to grind.
I dont respect people who seem to have to gild themselves with irrelevant sensationalism. Seems the king of the world wants God to bow to him. 'nuff said. -
You're correct in that religion is based upon faith -- but faith in what you believe to be a fact. If the bones of Jesus were found -- then the religion itself would be based upon a lie. The religion teaches that Jesus was actually God walking upon the earth. All four of the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) as well as all of the Epistles teach that Jesus physically rose from the grave three days following his death. If such "proof" were found, it would mean that the religion was based upon a sham. Of course, James Cameron's "proof" is pretty weak. He found a grave with a few names on it, and one of them might possibly have been the name "Jesus" (while most archeologists say the name is actually "Hanun." Regardless, this entire event was pseudo-archeology at its worst. If anyone actually believes Cameron's claim, I will sell them the tomb of Buddah for $25. I found it at a second hand store.
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He resurrected and left his bones behind? These miracles just get better and better.
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Feb 26, 2007 11:53:30 AM CST
Oh great.. that's ALL I need... - Maggie w/Irish Accent
by screamster101
That's right, I went there...
CADDYSHACK 4 LIFE!!! -
DJMiniMe, you're right. Religion is based on faith and no amount of evidence, either way, generally makes a blind bit of difference to the unquestioning masses.
That's what the power of suggestion is for. Suggest, suggest, and suggest again that you have the answers to all of life's questions, and the aforementioned unquestioning masses will start believing you, regardless of the evidence. That's what faith is.
You're right. -
As one can spot from all the capitalization in Harry's original post, some things are burned with acid into people's heads at a very early age. Cameron is walking into a looney bin, same as Rushdie did those many years ago. Like the powerline blog did with the Bush/Rather piece, people already have their "answers" about the veracity of the bearer of the news, and no evidence need apply. They will find a flaw in their own minds, then go after the man himself. Cameron can have a letter signed by Jesua bin Josef himself stating that this is indeed the rabbi in the gospels, and his family as well, and it won't matter. Religion make madmens, in overwhelming numbers. ** What interests me, is, one, why the hell didn't I hear about this when it happened -- if it is true, then I guess the resistance of a christian reporting culture kinda explains it, same as the old Elba dig. Also, the idea that the Teacher quoted some 40-60 years after his execution by the People for heresy is actuall real is extremely interesting. Most non-religious people always assumed his life was assembled from bits and pieces of truth and legends, for religious purposes at the end of the 1st century. There were a lot of Teacher cults back then, lots of prophecies being quoted, amid a culture that was staging its own intifada against Rome. Damned near no historical record exists that mention the huge dustup that the gospels of the four insisted happened. Like all truth, the facts would probably enrage the true believers. I wonder if Cameron has hung around too many reasonable people -- it's a failing. You forget that you live in a majority-cult nation, and that they don't take kindly to heresy. Lots of people have been hurt or killed trying to buck the madmen. I do hope he understands that life is going to become violent very shortly.
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Jesua ben Joseph, however you spell it, was described as being killed by the will of the mob... because he challenged their religous beliefs, because he pissed them off and wouldn't back down. Christians aren't really Christians, are they? I think the "Christians" of today killed all the real Christians before Constantine made the cult the state religion. Pacifistic communalists with femal bishops don't last long turning cheeks to people with swords and clubs and a willingness to make the world a purer place for the voices in their own heads.
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Jesus/wify and kiddo wouldn't be in the tomb after the crucification...it would be after the transfiguration? Kiddo isn't thought to be around til after the resurection anyways. So, for those that didn't go to Sunday School, this doesn't nullify Jesus rising from the grave, it nullifies his rise to the heavens after his post-resurection teachings. So Cross-Jesus, Dead-After-Cross-Jesus, and Rise-From-Grave-Jesus have NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS STORY.
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Not that anyone will read this, but to argue that Christianty will continue even if they find Christ's body is crazy because of the simple fact that there would never have been any Christians had Christ not resurrected. The difficulty is that most of us today think that resurrection is the same thing as being resuscitated (that is, brought back to the same life). But resurrection in the biblical accounts points to something entirely different, something completely shocking and something no one had thought of before--that Jesus would come back in a "NEW" life (very similiar to the old one but now operating by a new set of rules). The greeks never contemplated this thing, the jews never contemplated this, the egyptians never contemplated it. But what's amazing about it is that it made perfect sense in light of all that had happened before. So it really is like Firefly, a western set in space. A crazy ass idea but one that made perfect sense and forever changed the course (and purpose) of humanity.
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Why do Christians assume Jesua was a virgin? Some of the early Christian, I assume really self-loathing secret gays, had a problem with woman and sex. It wasn't exactly a secret. When one of them wrote his story (guess which one) he really pushed the idea that ol' teach never would touch an icky woman in a bad way. But that doesn't mean that Jesua didn't marry and have kids. It just wasn't mentioned. Could be because it didn't fit the anti-sex message that Paul pounded home.
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You'd love it if those CRAZY CHRISTIAN PSYCHO ZEALOTS started killing people over this, wouldn't you?? I bet you're one of those idiots that think Islam is the "religion of peace," but CRAZY CHRISTIAN PSYCHO ZEALOTS kill anyone who questions their beliefs. Oh, and another thing, faith is not contrary to reason or evidence (which are not the same thing, mind you). Will you people stop promulgating that bullshit? Faith is not blind nor is it illogical. Would you like me to give you a lecture on the writings of oh, Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, and a myriad of other writers on the subject? Didn't think so. Go read them yourself, morons. Rant over.
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Lot of discussion here, a lot ignoring that things like the Shroud of Turin pop up and threaten to change everything someone believes every decade or so. Cameron is cashing in, period. (some other idiot can do the "eat" line) I doubt he found anything more than Geraldo did in Al Capone's tomb, etc. If he did, great...I personally think most religions are convenient constructs for the weak-minded. I have a quote I use to piss off the high amd mighty, God freaing types: "Church is poorly organized group therapy run by incompetents". Never fails to cause a stroke, but I don't say it for effect, I say it so someone may recognize they are wasting a lot of life worrying about what happens AFTER life. I mean, everyone knows that after you die, you become a part of the Force and reappear as bad CGI in the 6th movie.
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For the rest of us who don't believe that BS. Idiot Christians.
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James Cameron, Ghaaaaa. This guy couldn't direct himself out of a paper bag. If you want to see good directing, you should take a note from one Bret Ratner, director of gems like Rush Hour and X-3. I give this documentary an 'Oh Brother'.
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as to run a smear campaign to remain "King of the World".I'm not voting for him.
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to how much of a non-story this is. Today, Newsweek, MSNBC...Jimmy should apologize for hawking this. Seriously, Anchorite is dead-on when he says this is Geraldo-ish.
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Kinda' interesting how James Cameron treated the Titanic wreakage area as a "final resting place" of the doomed passengers and hence, due all the respect and dignity any cemetery should expect but Jimmy doesn't hesitate to desecrate the *POTENTIAL* tomb of the Son of God Himself and drag the small stone coffins half way around the world to prop-up on display for the sake of promoting his TV documentary.
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...really shouldn't have any place in this forum. But for some reason, it does. How many times is someone so egotistical as to call all Christians "idiots" and to call a belief in Christ or Christianity a "bunch of bullshit" ?!? ... ... ... ... For an industry that proclaims "tolerance," Hollywood surely spews a great deal of ridicule and hatred for Christians, conservatives and southerners. ... ... ... ... It's sad, really, that some people are so narrow minded that they cannot respect someone else's beliefs with dignity. But this really is a mirror of Hollywood, isn't it? :(
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I must say, this is the first time I have ever seen a dent in James Cameron's infallible career. Over the course of message board, blogs, and chatrooms, I have seen nothing but negativity and disgust following the announcement. However, Cameron has shown signs of reserve and hesitation with the interviews and press conference, as if he knows he's made a terrible mistake and is attempting to back out at the last minute.
Cameron, please don't damage your flawless lifetime legacy as a filmaker in dealing with this quack. Get out while there's still time!
By the way, Cameron will be appearing on Larry King Live tonight! -
Thanks for the info! I will be watching with great anticipation. I hope that he distances himself from the pseudo-archeology that this obviously represents. Otherwise, Cameron will be crucifying himself in the mind of Christians, advocacy groups, and the academic and scientific world. And I really WANT him to make AVATAR!!!
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Mon or Tues.
Well we know every minute he spends on this is one more minute we'll have to wait on Avatar and Battle. -
Jesus or Cameron?
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Better make Avatar a 2010 release. And Battle a 2017 release.
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But no Crazy Christain will believe it. It's funny to here them citing proof of it not being his gravesite. Like the bible is any proof of anything, other than the tool of one group to control the minds and wallets of another. It's him. He was a man. Deal with it.
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I am a Christian, I do not believe it, and I am not "crazy." I do not believe this is true based upon A: Faith; B: Real scholarly evidence (as opposed to this pseudo-archeology; and, C: It smells quite a bit like the "Jesus Box" hoax from a couple of years ago. ... ... ... ... Why do so many hate-mongers and leftists feel the need to insult Christians at every opportunity? This is the true hypocrisy of the far-left's view on "tolerance." They tolerate only those people who agree with them and their political, religious and social views. ... ... ... ... If you want people to tolerate your views, please return the favor. You don't have to agree -- and you are more than entitled to share your beliefs. But please refrain from using "circular" and "straw man" reasoning in order to ridicule someone else's beliefs (especially those beliefs concerning faith or religion). It is so, uh, uncivilized. :(
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on to the show, then yes Jesus will be on Larry King.
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Search your feelings.....
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HOLY FUCK!!! TOO MANY POSTS SO WHY BOTHER TO POST.
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very intelligent... he was a man... good job.. great annalysis.. any other pearls of wisdom
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The far right is as bad as the far left, maybe even worse because they think God's on their side.
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How long will this AWESMOME thread continue?
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How about a little more generalizations and over-simplifications? I don't think you had enough in that last post.
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we will never see that film with Dakota fanning, the one where she is "raped" in a 5 second sequence. Her response to that hoo-ha wasnt even heard. "its a movie" and "its called acting". Can the king of the world recover that remains to be seen. Cameron is stiff looking on that show he does for discovery and I have seen a couple of eps of It. Why jim Why?
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someone had to say it. I bet the real Jesus would kind of look like John Turturro... anyone?
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I have faith that the sky is made of red marshmallows. Does that make me a believer or a nut? It's as accurate as some god like figure sending his son to earth. It was nothing more than moralistic teachings by a group of men. No association to anything else. No son of god. Sorry crazies, but it never happened. A guy teaching a way of life, and some moral parables...yes... risen from the dead...no.
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They can get DNA of Christ from a 2000 yr old corpse but can't get DNA from Anna 's 6 month baby girl, and can't bury her 20 day old corpse. Fucking lawyers!
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James Cameron shouted!
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Humans think that they are the center of everything. Take Astrology. The position of the stars, the constellations foretell our futures. On our side we see Orion. From the same distance on the other side of Orion they see our spec of light (Earth) right where Orion's asshole would be.
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So where's the fuckin Press Conference Mr.Cameron was supposed to have?
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as if it proves a point they're making. "The bible says this, so it's true". Even the most basic philosophy class will tell you that the bible can't be used as grounds for judgement, because when you think about it, what is it? 2000 years of peoples opinions, translated over and over again until much of its meaning is hazy, anyway. Ever played a game of telephone? If 10 middle schoolers can't get keep a fucking sentence in order, how could hundreds of people, over 2000 years and spread apart by many miles?
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It is the best piece of fiction ever, harry will soil himself in geekgasmic throbs - It starts off very poetically "in the time of the ancestors" on a very primitive world, with a man who was born to a virgin mother with no biological father involved. And in this world, there was no evolution, far from it! The people of this world had simply just existed from the start and never developed beyond the inbred basis from which they came - now that's great fiction to start with!! In any case, the same fatherless man [cue dramatic music, perhaps something by clint mansell, for a change] called out to a friend who had been dead long enough to stink, and that friend promptly came back to life; so not only will this appeal to scifi fans, but given that there are zombies in it too, the whole romero love fest should dig it too!!! Snyder and Boyle are going to be kicking themselves that they never came up with something as creative as this!! But i digress and return back to the script, the fatherless man himself came alive after being dead and buried for three days and then forty days later, he went up to the top of a hill and then disappeared bodily into the sky. (I know, that last part is a little disappointing and sounds like a really cheap rip-off of an xmen type scenario that only brett rattner would have the insolence/ignorance to add). Sadly, the script then just gets a little silly as it becomes simply too far-removed from the provinces of acceptable reality: it tries to posit as possible that future generations of an entire tribe of people (who had previously been worshipping golden quadraped statues and the like) find themselves manipulated by powerful men in office who brainwash them into unquestioning automatons. So extreme is this mind virus that whenever the people ask a reasonable question for which the priests and witchdoctors have no rational answer to, the people are told to either "just have faith " or that their questioning could result in their "burning for eternity." Beyond being taught to fear from an early age, the masses are assuaged in their lives by learning to believe that if they murmur thoughts (like that conference scene in "the man with two brains") privately in their heads, that the fatherless man, and his "father" (who is also himself) will hear their thoughts and may act upon them. Not unlike Santa Claus, this father figure is simultaneously able to hear the thoughts of everybody else in the world and know if they do anything bad, or good (interestingly cameron specifically choses not to place power within the realm of women, making it clear that it is men that are at the core of this world and at its controls). It would have been so cool if he could have made some allusion to Aristophanes here, but he is taking on Michael Bay (damn him) and not Merchant/Ivory. That's fine in my book, its not as though the father figure has friggin' laser beams coming out of his eyes! Ohhh, later on we learn (in a touching flashback scene) that the fatherless man's virgin mother never died but ascended bodily into heaven, as though pulled on a giant tractor beam, like peter berg in "fire in the sky". Unfortunately, as we observe some cool time-lapse shots showing generations of people living and dying, we never see anything even remotely similar to the miraculously incredible feats of fantasy that we have been told happened to people of the ancient times. In fact, as there is greater civilization (and more means of documenting testimonies and events) there appear to be far less interesting things happening and the story seems almost forced to suddenly (and disappointingly) zoom into epic battles where other tribes who have some similar and some very different beliefs fight. In none of these battles do any of the gods come down with fire, brimstone, pitchforks, mjolnors, thunderbolts or blue elephant dung to help their chosen people. I told jim that i thought that this was really ashame as he has the cgi technology to make some really divine characters up (just not too silver), but he said people can only suspend disbelief up to a point. He is so wise.
So sadly, despite how the script began with all of these incredible tales and beliefs to set up an epic piece of fantasy/scifi, Cameron short changes the audience and NONE, NOT ONE, of the gods ever even makes so much as an appearance beyond easily misconceived coincidences where no physical form is manifested, except to sometimes appear on random jelly donut stains and as faces in cinnamon rolls.
As those of you who have read through this talkback will know, the script i have described here is not eligible for an oscar for original screenplay, as it is an adaptation, as indeed its source was, and its source too... -
Yes, the far Right is responsible for all the destruction of the world, just like religion is responsible for all the "bad things, man." Nevermind that the most destruction wrought in the history of the world was by communist revolutionaries. Yea, those Bolsheviks, I mean they just made a lot of noise. Or, perhaps we could go further back...How about the French Revolution, a leftist cause? Ever hear of the "Reign of Terror"? Probably not. You people are fucking idiots. I'm not saying I'm right about everything, but you people sure spew out a bunch of bullshit.
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Anti-matter propulsion is the technology we use. But still use guns, gernades, bullets, and others weapons of today. They can't tell the sex of the baby avatar "It's a Boy". It has to be a boy for the story to work. The avatar works best if it matches the sex of it's controller (Josh?). Besides they can tell the sex early in our times yet alone 100 years from now. Fuck they'll be able to choose with perfection the sex. So the "It's a Boy" statement is stupid.
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I wasted 30 seconds of my life skimming that beautiful allegory, I wonder how long you spent writing it? You sure showed us Christians with your irony! A modern-day Voltaire! No, an Aristophanes! I'm going to have go and re-examine my life now.
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Did you guys know Al Gore's mansion consumes 20 times the amount of energy an average household consumes!!! SHOCKING!! Next someone will be claiming to have found CHRIST'S BONES!!!
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Wheelchairs. Dean Kamen invented the I-Bot wheelchair. The one that climbs steps. Probably way less then 100 years from now there might be something like strong suits that can be put on that'll walk for you. Besides that they use have powersuits on Pandora. How about a smaller scaled version for handicaps instead of wheelchairs. Also if they can create a LINK and make hybrids and go to other star systems we can surely defeat any physical handicaps. There will not be any handicap people in 100 years, except in a 3rd world country. And that's even if that exist. There's smoking in this story. Cigs won't exist in 100 years. There's mention of MTV and other things like Road Runner cartoons from our time. I highly doubt these things would ever be mentioned in 100 yrs unless it's a museum. Cell phones also. They won't be anything like what we have today.
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HOLY HELL! Maybe JC is JC. JC has been resurrected into JC. He found his own fucking bones.
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were never concerned about the similarities between Christianity and pagan myths...Said they were "echoes of divine Truth." Just thought I'd throw that out there...
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For more on the similarities between all mythologies...I reccommend anything by Joseph Campbell, like the Hero with a Thousand Faces, or perhaps the The Power of Myth..or better yet, read som Carl Gustav Jung...And no, I have nothing better to do than post on this site.
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You have a point about extremists. Both the extremists on the right AND left can pose a danger in a free society. Which one is more dangerous? Stalin (a left wing nut) killed more people than Hitler (a right wing nut). However, I doubt anyone can say that either side is more dangerous than the other -- let alone make the audacious comment that the far right is "world destroyers." Some on the far left (communists) were just as wicked and destructive as the far right (nazis). ... ... ... ... Herein lies the problem with your "logic." You are equating anyone that believes in Christ or believes in the Bible (reportably 80% of this nation's population) as RIGHT WINGERS. You then describe how these "RIGHT WINGERS" are destructive while painting a picture of LEFT WINGERS as noble intellectuals. In my opinion, LEFT WINGERS are just as dangerous as the FAR RIGHT WINGERS! Yet I am not going to paint every atheist as a "left winger." Nor am I going to insult the intelligence of those who don't agree with my own opinions or beliefs -- something the left accuses the right of -- but does themselves (as this messageboard demonstrates). ... ... ... ... There is something hypocritical about an individual who will publicly MOCK the religious and social beliefs of someone -- just because they differ from our own "educated" beliefs. Any individual who feels so relaxed as to mock the deity or religious beliefs of another person -- or to stereotype such individuals -- is in a really sad state of mind. ... ... ... ... Why can't individuals simply learn to respect the beliefs of others? Why does the left accuse the religious people of attempting to influence popular opinions -- when they themselves are guilty of the SAME THING? Is it because 80% of the voters believe in Christianity -- and will not agree with insane religious ridicule coming from the far left? Or is it that they feel that the only way they can get their voice heard is by shouting such ridicule in an supposedly "intellectual" tone? This is not a sign of education -- but of religous bigotry and stereotyping. It is really sad.
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March 4th on Discovery
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Ironically you take an investigative nom de plume but never seek to look more deeply at the facts (or lack thereof). In any case, what is 30 seconds, relative to the lifetimes wasted believing your fairytales? Why is your belief more relevant than a polytheist religion such as hinduism, which has hundreds of gods? Can you accept that a blue elephant god is as divine (by your definition) as jesus - it is to hundreds of millions. Dont get me wrong, i think many of the philosophies of christ (or whoever you wish to attribute them to, perhaps buddha since jc did spend time in india learning other philosphies) are splendid and generally form a good basis for how lives should be led. But beyond the realm of GFBdom's forums, try and look a little deeper than this site. Dare to question the world around you. I spent over a decade in some of the most war-ravaged parts of central africa and have seen first-hand real human suffering that most could never imagine beyond hollywood films. I wont even presume to think that you have ever lived more than a year outside of the US in a non-anglophone developing country. Its a shame that more christians cannot really see how unfair the world is, and how skewed it is to whites. Why does your crutch/god allow so many black and brown people to suffer relative to white boys like me? Saying the reward will come in heaven, or that faith is being tested is not an explanation. give up the comforts of your world and go and live in northern uganda and tell me if you still believe in god. While you and i prattle blithely online, millions suffer day by diabolical day. Neither of us are doing anything about it, though i assume that i have done much more than you (and in the real scheme of things, that is essentially close to nothing). but that's okay, because you and they can pray and that will make it all better
thanks for your time, sincerely, am happy you read/skimmed the last post, and hopefully this one. you dont need to throw out answers here, no one expects them - we have been waiting for centuries after all -
between the mythologies and christianity and note how cs lewis and tolkien did not have a problem with it. that's what i got thrown out of sunday school for as a little boy, highlighting some of those similarities (i was an avid reader of all mythologies and most definitely the power of myth - that was a revelation to come across in the 8th grade and still is to this day). your recognising that christianity is composed of many components (including pagan rites and rituals) is an important step - heartening that you are at least that open minded. would love to chat, but it is very late in my part of the atheist woods. good night and zeus (deus, dieu, god) bless
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marlowe, let me know if you know - i have seen too many in this lifetime to dare endure them for an eternity (mind you, that is how long they seemed to last)
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Hey man, I agree totally with your assessment of the world as being a pretty unjust place. As for my own experiences, I'm pretty young, so no, I haven't lived in other parts of the world for very long, and as of yet, have not done my part to combat injustice. But I plan to. In fact, this is an important part of Catholic teaching: one is not justified by faith alone, but also through good works. In other words, it is not enough to just believe in God, one must also do good and Christian things to those around you. This was what the Reformation was all about (mostly). Cheers.
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Mr. Cameron, if you're reading this, I just wanted to say that you handled your interview with Larry King with the utmost class and and respectability. Instead of making absurd claims like the director of the film, you clearly stated that you supported the project as a film maker and that you're totally open to evidence for and against the findings. You gained nothing but total respect from the other guests and come through it all unscathed. I unfortunately cannot say the same for Mr. Jacobovici, who's arguments were completely obliterated and exposed to be the hack he truly is.
Please consider distancing yourself from this individual in the future and let this be a lesson. -
Anyone know if it's online anywhere yet?
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Al Capone's loot?
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d.n.a. tested the "mary" and "jesus" and they weren't related. WOW! FULL BLOWN PROOF THAT IT'S "THE" JESUS. what a buch of bullshit. you have no evidence of anything. i guess no one named jesus and mary ever got married back then. YEAH.
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He's relying on statiticians and extreme odds to disprove a person who defied the laws of nature. Christ's very existence is antithetical to science. But to Cameron, an agnostic at best, Jesus is no different than King Arthur. Carbon date some bones and yell "presto". The very foundation of his logic was skewed. Didn't he ever, ever question why the Israeli historians never bothered to go down this road? Because they know the only thing that can change the story of Christ are other tablets and writings, not DNA samples...What I find funny about this are all the non-believers who are just accepting this so they can feel justified, but say when the fields are reversed, as with creationism, they scream bloody murder that someone would challenge evolution. It's like Crichton says, atheism, evolution and enviromentalism are religions with different gods. The difference being is that one has moral judgement and the others have moral relativism. High Priest Gore confirmed this very idea at the Oscars.
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who found them in 1980 discredits this crap.
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HEY JESUS!!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU CHEATING ON LINDA HAMILTON!!! THAT IS REALLY MESSED UP!!! Nevertheless, THANKS FOR HELPING TO GIVE ME AND THE WORLD THE JESSICA ALBA SEX MACHINE!!!
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Feb 26, 2007 11:50:52 PM CST
You cant prove/disprove the existence of God or Jesus
by bendersshinyass
They are belief systems. If you want to learn about Christ, you read the bible. If you want to learn about the chritian interpretation of christ, you go to church and you listen to wide eyed fools rave about how awesome the dude was/is. One of the questions i find most grating on my psyche is "do you believe in God?" Well... you know what... you're interpretation of what God is will most likely be different to anothers interpretation of what God is.... The problemwith the most hardest core of fundemental religions, be in Christianity or islam, is that they think if you don't believe in their God then you are an athiest. Athiest is a chistian word... it means nothing. Agnostic isn't even a real word... it's a cop out. you tell someone you're an agnostic you might as well say 'hey, I don't believe in God... but I do actually... but I just don't know where my head really is on the subject" And thats fine. Anyone who has hard and fast answers to anything spiritual is a fucking liar because NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING. that said, who in their right mind can make the claim that they've found the bones of Jesus Christ? How could you possible prove it - even to yourself. it all comes down to faith and belief. And hear me well people, faith and belief is NOT proof of anything. anyone who's spirituality is based on a human centric personification of Gods is just wrong. The claimis that there is a seperate entity, a being much like a man that created the earth. C'mon. If such is the case then why does God have hands, feet, a head, or a penis? really now? We are all drops of water that make up this great ocean..... and I think George Lucas nailed it in the original trilogy with his explanation As for jesus... well... forget what people preach and actually read the frigen bible. when you study it, delve into what is written, and not just 1 version, but several different interpretation, you'll come to a few amazing things. mostly that Jesus didn't exactly perform miracles as such, but merely enlightened people thought patterns, and that we are from the earth - the dirt specifically - if that aint laying down the claim we evoloved then i don't know what is. Oh, and Adam and Eve were not the only people wondering around. read Cain & Abel. As for James Cameron, stick to film making & visual effects. You're making a complete butthole of yourself excuse me, but I've just read this whole talkback, and I'm a student of the bible, and I'm very much NOT a christian.
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just Linda, WOW! She was in killer shape and a badass. She'd probably rip your dick off.
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the final resting place of Jesus(pronounced Hey-Sooce)and Maria in the world's longest tunnel.
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This whole thread is full of shit. The only question you ever have to ask anyone else isn't "Are you a lefty? Are you a conservative? Are you a Christian? Are you a believer in organised religion? Are you a communist? Fascist? Hippy? No. The only question of any relevance to anyone else is: Are you an asshole?
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...Dracula. Seriously. In Universal's House of Frankenstein Boris Karloff plays a side show con-man (like Jimbo) and in front of a crowd claims that the coffin next to him are the bones of Count Dracula himself!!! Anyway the fucker was proved right when Dracula is brought back from the grave. Therefore Jimmy crack Whore MUST be right as to whom them ol bones belong to. Fucking hell though, what if what he's really found are THE ACTUAL bones of Count Dracula instead. Fuck me anytime now the dreaded dark lord of Transylvania will return to life once more to feast on us all just like before. I'm getting REAL scared now. Jesus or Dracula. Dracula or Jesus. It all makes sense now. Thanks Jim. Now will you hurry up and make True Lies 2. ....Oh my god, what if they're actually NOT BONES but a fucking ENDOSKELETON.......................................................
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Christians who defend their religion are fools. Realistically any religion based on faith has absolutely no defense. If someone says that it's bullshit as it likely is, you should probably just agree and say oh well to prevent the arguement.
Now 'little christian haters' like me will never be able to prove faith wrong, this is true. However, we can very easily prove your religion wrong given the right pieces of evidence.
The problem I have with organized religion is that I see it as a crutch. It's a guideline for human kind. For christ's sake, the rules fucking change depending on the time's acceptance. It's okay to own slaves, as long as you treat them good? Your wife is your property, just treat her with love and respect?
Here's a good point... If Christianity didn't reward or punish people for their actions in life, I'd bet it would lose a lot of believers. People believe in these life after death religions for comfort, to deal with the likely possibility that life ends with death.
I was raised in a heavy christian environment and I can easily say that when I came to terms with how I felt about religion, I was very upset and depressed for a long time. I wanted so very deeply to beileve that my life wasn't meaningless and tried to convince myself to believe.
I couldn't. Why? I see organized religions like Christianity as a crutch for the weak or foolish. Be a good person and you shall live on after death. I must admit, I'm happy for people who have faith. Their life is much easier with the comfort that they don't just die, that their dead friend's and relatives are still somewhere. The idea that they aren't lost forever.
Heh... I hate religion, I despise religion- not faith. There may be a god, or an afterlife. Though I believe it's completely irrelevant to life whether there is or not.
So JC found some old bones. He may be able to prove that the bones in question are all related...
-Some of you people are disgusting me with your idiocy in thinking that he claims to have DNA evidence that these are the bones of christ. All I've read on the subject is that he claims to have DNA or some such proof that all the bones in question had similar family relations to THE Jesus.-
... but I have a feeling it wont carry on for long between anyone that isn't fanatical about religion (including aethiest's strong love for destroying the hopes of Christians with their strong disbelief of god) hehe
Let's not forget the most important thing here...
No Christian would let a silly thing like proof get in the way of their faith. They also wouldn't let a silly thing like proof get in the way of their religion, which is the problem with Christians. -
Holy shit
Website needs to upgrade this silliness... No automatic html at all! Blasphemy I say! Now my previous post will be 1. Annoying to read. and 2. Offensive to the masses at the same time! -
Japan is all over the "strong suits" you mentioned possibly existing. They've already been made, and enable humans to carry an insane amount of weight as well as walking without any problems. I've seen one at this big Science Expo here in Seoul.
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http://tinyurl.com/33rlsm
As well as all kinds of other neat stuff. You're all welcome in advance. -
Someone needs to keep this guy's ego in check. Ever since he tortured chicks' boyfriends with Titanic he's gone into hyper self-love mode.
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Cool, I'd like to see something on the "Strong Suits". Is there anything on line.?
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I had another night to sleep on it. If they combine the Dry Bones with the Shroud of Turin, could they come up with the complete DNA code? Then they wouldn't have to fill in the holes with frog DNA and risk Jesus Jr. changing his gender. Remember, nature will find a way. A Gender Changing Jesus would really cause a shake up in the church fer sure.
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http://tinyurl.com/ku9m
It's called the HAL(Hybrid Assistive Limb).
That site isn't too informative, but I trust you know how to use the power at your fingertips. ;) -
http://tinyurl.com/3cespm
That link is much better. Cyberdyne is the company...which sounded creepily familiar until I remembered that Globodyne is the company that employs Jim Carrey in _Fun with Dick & Jane_.
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as the new DW griffith. This Avatar movie will be a combination of griffith and Cecille B de Mille but with CGI and it will be an event movie of 1999. cameron doesnt do small. I also get the feeling that there will be some kubrick thrown in hence all the jesus stuff. 2001 was a spiritual enigma movie wrapped up in sci-fi mystery.
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She's, like, nuts, you realize. Not "hey Im kooky", but on-meds, bi-polar, nuts. I saw pic of her at premiere where she ran into Cameron, and she looked like a guy. It was sad, really. So, either Jimmy pushed her off the edge or he had no idea and found out the hard way.
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Boy did James Cameron end up looking silly. The experts totally obliterated his claims. I feel bad for him and the Discovery Channel, that is more crow than anyone should be forced to eat. Well hopefully this will fuel Mr. Cameron to look into what the truth is now that he realizes his version is fiction.
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Yes HAL-3 is kinda similar to what I was envisioning.
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You really know very little about Christianity. Yet you still feel secure enough to ridicule the religion and its deity? Kudos to your "superior religion" and bigotry.
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is if you don't believe in theirs then you will be condemned for it. There are 3-4 major religions in the world, gee who's right? What about someone in a tribe that has never interacted with the modern world? Do they burn for eternity in fire and brimstone or are denied the 70 virgins or whatever the fuck that lameass claim is? There are many in the world that worship a cow or the sun..etc. Are they going to be thrown into a lake of fire? You can tell that this horseshit was composed by humans. The first fucking commandment. Thou shall not have other gods before me! If there is only one God then he/she/it would not have mentioned it. Maybe there's multiple Gods. So there's jealously and competition. Just like humans. Also the Bible holds no fucking clout to an alien race. We are nothing but a tiny spec in this universe of probably an infinite amount of multi-verses. Humans have only existed a milli-second just in this universe. Why is it that everything prior to man knowing the word of God, was empty and lost. Alien races pulling their hair out with nothing to go on. Trying to figure out their destiny, reason, their lives. If there is another intelligent species ever in space then what is their belief system? I'm not saying that there isn't a God. I'm saying that religion and human interpretation has put nothing but a big fucking shit stain on the whole thing. How arrogant are we that we hold the magical answers to the creation of the universe but all other life forms before and after in space are denied such previledges.
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You make 'lil christian haters' look bad. Go to church, it would help my case by adding to my opposition another idiot. The childish fools that spout all their ignorant babble against religion are the reason Christians and the like say we have no reasonable evidence against their religion.
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HA! silly religion for week minded people. Davinci was right!
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of the kwisatz haderach. Oh, is that silly? Yeah, so is this story. Get back to Terminator or Aliens or STFU.
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JC vs JC
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I'll answer your second question. The whole idea of "only 144,000" comes from people that claim to be Jehovah's Witness. Not Catholics, not Christian, not Protestant, not Methodist, etc.
So in all reality, noone else really believes that nonsense other than the Jehovah's Witnesses...which ironically have more than 144,000 followers. And I find that hilarious. -
You say "I was being respectful and laying out why I think christianity is bullshit!"
Sadly...you have Christianity confused. "The devil and the angels who where on his side knew he was real and the still said fuck him!"
Riiiiiiiiiiight. -
Jehovah's Witness's are a sect of Christians, not all christians follow the same biblical beliefs. Which is my original point of answering your vaugely worded question. The whole 14,000 thing is one of your reasons for believing that the entirety of Christianity is "bullshit"....which is retarded. You disagree with one sect/church and it's specific followings, so you consider every bit/church that is considered Christian...as bullshit.
Ignorance at it's finest.
I don't go to church, I'm not a textbook Christian, I havbe however studied many religions because I don't firmly believe in saying "my religion is all true and yours is wrong so you're going to hell for not believing what I believe." And I'm not trying to have any debate about who's the better Christian here. I was simply trying to humor you and answer your ignorant ass questions that you insisted on someone answering.
I can break that down into more easily comprehensible words if that was too much for you, but either way you're welcome in advance. -
"why I believe christianity is bullshit!"
"2nd) If only 144,000 get to go to heaven and aborted babies instantly go to heaven there's no room for any born person to get into heaven anyway... Sorry people!"
Those are your words, quoted verbatim.
You directly reference Jehovas Witnesses in your original post as ONE OF THE TWO REASONS YOU THINK CHRISTIANITY IS BULLSHIT.
So yes, in reality you did say Christianity is bullshit because of the Jehovah witnesses beliefs.
Just stop already, you're making about as much sense as putting a screen door on a submarine.
Educate yourself. I feel like I'm beating up a handicap kid here in the sense that you and I having a debate...it's just not fair to you. -
1) From Hitchhiker's Guide: "I refuse to prove that I exist, says God, for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." OK, not the best source for theology, but it makes a point. Your argument about the devil and his angels is not applicable to the point you're making. As the story goes (and it's a particular interpretation of Scripture, not a cut-and-dried teaching), Satan wanted to mutiny and take God's place, which is a different situation altogether. It's not like they knew God's existence as fact and chose not to believe it, they instead wanted power for themselves and attempted to take it (as this interpretation goes). As humans are not immortal beings with supernatural power, this would not be an issue for us. You're comparing apples and oranges there, mate. And you're missing another important point...the point of Christianity is that God DID show up, and even when he did people rejected him and killed him. Why would he need to keep showing up? He visited the planet, made his point, made his case, and went home. The rest is up to us. 2) The Jehovah's Witnesses, who are the only ones who teach that doctrine, were founded by a man who predicted Christ's second coming in 1917. When it didn't happen, he had to explain it away, and that was the beginning of a convoluted theology that has no basis in anything but his desire to save face. You can't discredit Christianity because Charles Taze Russell and his successors chose to make stuff up. That 144,000 argument holds no water whatsoever.
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What do you mean by God showing up a lot more in the OT? Your entire premise is specious, because it's not even clear what you're saying. Do you mean God use to come as old guy with a big beard in OT and He doesn't do that anymore? Well, He never did that, so...Or perhaps you mean He doesn't appear as a burning bush anymore? Well, again, it's all a matter of personal opinion, really. Many people claim to have religious experiences with God on a daily basis (in many different religions- try William James' A Variety of Religious Experience for an agnostic view of religious experience). Of course you can claim that it's all psychological, but you are making a claim that is by no means scientific fact, but really just as much a matter of personal opinion. As much as I love Frued (even while disagreeing with him), his theories are basically psuedo-science. Furthermore, the whole notion that everyone was a mindless idiot back in the days of the Israelites, and everyone talked to God, and no one had any thinking skills....Well, it's really just a whole bunch of bullshit that's been propagated ever since the anti-religious sentiments in the Enlightenment. I'm always reminded of Pilate's question to Christ, "Quod est veritas?" or "What is truth?" It's a perfect example of relatavism, and it shows that it existed before the Enlightenment. The only point I'm trying to make is that skeptics have always existed, as have believers, and to suggest somehow that there was a time when everyone experienced God on a daily basis, and now no one does anymore... well it's just stupid.
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Let's all get together and have a group hug because Mr James Cameron has just tryed to ass fuck us.
Well Mr Cameron, you may have treated your ex-wives as whores but we are not going to get used. Clean off the rectal mucosa and put your dick back in your pants. You have been screwing us for too long amigo. Shame on you! -
because in the states it's mutating into a warrior death-cult, not too unlike fundementalist islamists. Basically it's a perverted interpretation of the text, that takes a fairly benign and community-centered philosophy and turns it inside out, into an us-and-them lesson book for would-be tyrants. The fault doesn't lie with the Bible, good Christians, or Jesus himself, but rather with the perennial human tendency to fill in the blanks and hijack whatever's convenient when it starts feelin hot under the collar and wants to go a lynchin'. People have been perverting religion for their own base needs since the first caveman prayed to the sun to get him laid. It's difficult for your average secular humanist or agnostic to see the difference between someone who actually believes in what Jesus had to say about little things like, oh I don't know, FEEDING THE POOR, and someone who thinks Jesus wants him to assasinate abortion doctors.
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I'll answer your second question. The whole idea of "only 144,000" comes from people that claim to be Jehovah's Witness. Not Catholics, not Christian, not Protestant, not Methodist, etc.
So in all reality, noone else really believes that nonsense other than the Jehovah's Witnesses...which ironically have more than 144,000 followers. And I find that hilarious.
So, what you are really saying is that because you personally find the ideas of the JH to be nonsense, that makes them invalid. How can you be so sure? Are you God? Maybe they are right. Maybe all the other Christians are right. OR MAYBE ALL OF YOU ARE COMPLETELY UTTERLY FUCKING WRONG. -
Was that post directed at me?
I'm hoping not. If so, you have me all wrong. I never said who was right and who was wrong. I think you meant to respond to ODMB.
I do however think a religion based souly on believing only a certain amount of people get into heaven (in this case 144,000) is silly. Simply because, in reality...there are far more than 144,000 avid JH followers. Get my drift?
I'm just a bit confused because you quoted me, but responded to ODMB.
Awesome post though StrangeCo. I firmly believe the basis for almost every religion is faith.
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