Cool News
That other Star Wars-based comedy 5-25-77 to come out 5-25-07?
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. We've been following Patrick Read Johnson's 5-25-77 almost since the very beginning of the site. Right now it's not as flashy (ie backed up by the Weinsteins) as FANBOYS is, but I'm confident that the two are different enough to co-exist.
The main difference is 5-25-77 takes place... 5-25-77, when Star Wars hit and changed everything, whereas FANBOYS is a late '90s movie about the excitement of seeing a new Star Wars movie. Gary Kurtz, producer of Star Wars and Empire, acts as producer of 5-25-77.
This flick has been in the can for a while now, but a writer at a website called fancinematoday.com got a little scoop from director Johnson regarding the release of the film, in the form of a teaser poster. Johnson also added that more info will surface very soon. There's not a better time to release, in my opinion.
I've seen some footage from this flick and it looks very well made and like it could be a lot of fun. I've also seen footage from FANBOYS, which looks really funny as well. In a perfect world both these small films will come out and be great.
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where's everybody?
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wasn't that the Coca-Cola slogan in the 80s?
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...cuz God knows we haven't see THAT for 30 years either.
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...when I'm in L.A. for Celebration IV! Woohoo!
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He said, "Fuck you and hand over your cash. Lucas is tied up in the basement and I took over. Suck MY jogging suit-encased cock, Star Wars fans!"Can you imagine the fanboy flicks that will come out years from now about their heartbreak and disappointment with the Special Editions or the Prequels? Ho-ho-ho!
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Looking forward to this!
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Having been so upset that the franchise has fallen into the trap of being laughable shit, the original movie decided to quit the movie buisness and take up it's fogotten dream of opening a bed and breakfast. More on this story at 11.
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Nothing like a George Lucas star wars talkback...
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I'm happy for Patrick because he's one of us. I met him either here on TalkBacks or in AICN chat in summer 2000 when I was working on a script and he sent me a copy of 5-25-77 I don't know how many times I read that as I was working on my (finished but unproduced) script also set in the 70s. Good Luck Pat on this release the script was excellent and I can't wait to see how the movie turned out... They Should have an AICN premire somewhere and only invite AICNers...
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The correct "A long time ago..." typeface, which they are trying to allude to, is News Gothic, not Arial.
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Knight, you're right - Here goes the bashing! DAMN YOU GEORGE LUCAS!!!! That original trilogy is MY bitch, she belongs to MEEEEEE and all the REAL Star Wars fans, you over-the-hill talentless twat-hack of a man! Motherfucker!!!!
5-25-77 will rock. FANBOYS will too, but not so much.
Ever see Rick McCallum and David Gest in the same room? Hell no!!!
That is all. LUCAS GOTTA EAT!!! -
This is my first usage of the "Gotta Eat" catchphrase.
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Patrick Read Johnson directed Angus. Angus is one of the most underrated films EVER MADE. That's right, you heard me. This movie, which does seem like it has been around FOREVER, will be 10 million times better than Fanboys, I guarantee. I will stake my reputation on this. I can't believe Johnson got Charlie Talbert, Ariana Richard and Chris Owen back together for this. This announcement is like my wet fever dream, and I DON'T EVEN LIKE STAR WARS. Plus he's got John Francis Daley from Freaks and Geeks and Neil Flynn, the janitor on Scrubs. So happy for Johnson today and I will have my calendar marked. Patrick, feel free to invite me to an early screening- mirajeff@aintitcool.com
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Its not like he made 3 films that were more piss poor than anything seen in recent years pretending to be prequels to one of the finest franchises the movie world has ever seen. Oh shit thats the same guy, who the fuck cares about him anymore? Who the fuck cares about Star Wars anymore as well?
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It needed to be said.
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The Lucas who made Star Wars doesn't exist anymore. This is about the purity of discovery and excitement we all felt when STAR WARS first came out. If this lives up to it's potential it may be something I end up watching more than the actual original trilogy. Strange.
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...and eat, and eat, and eat....
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Sure, it was bad, but it was no worse than the Prequels.
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5-25-77? Only if she's 5'3"!
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How did this happen?
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MiraJeff, you are right - ANGUS is one of the most under-rated movies of all time. I spent ages trying to get that soundtrack just for the track AM I WRONG? by Love Spit Love. It pre-dated Green Day Fever by years, man (Jason Andrew Relva, anyone?). Ariana Richards was awesome. Chris Owen became the Sherminator... but will always be Tro Wedberg to me! Charlie Talbert broke my heart in that movie. And it even has Irvin Kershner (yep, the director of EMPIRE!) as a teacher. The mighty George C. Scott, unforgettable as always. Kathy Bates as the truck-driving Mom with a heart of gold. And James Van Der Beek as the ultimate evil jock, Rick LeFevre... This is the first movie I ever saw the Beek in, and no matter how much DAWSON'S CREEK I watch, he'll always be that arrogant bastard LeFevre to me! "Time I broke your nose, Angus." "Take your best shot asshole!" WHACK! That film pwns you all. Release it on DVD NOW!!! And if 5-25-77 has the same director as ANGUS, then by God it will be the pinnacle of awesomeness. MiraJeff, I salute you. Next time you meet Lucas, give him a game of Ro Shan Bo. I thank you. ANGUS rocks!
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I knew Johnson had written (and got his heart borken basically) with DragonHeart I didn't know he did Angus, that movie is GREAT
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Boba's got back!
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As if it couldn't be any cooler... In this excellent interview from strange horizons in 2003 (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20030224/johnson.shtml) Patrick Read Johnson alludes to making a movie of SANTIAGO: A MYTH OF THE FAR FUTURE with Gary Kurtz. Written by Mike Resnick, that is my single favourite novel of all time. Period. I am having a multiple geekgasm right now. PLease God allow this to happen one day... After 5-25-77 of course! Patrick sounds like a pretty cool guy. Can we hear more from him on AICN PLEEEEASE??? ;D
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I can guarantee you I'll be there.
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or music.... right?
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Shatner was right. Some people really DO need to get out of their parents' basement, kiss a girl, and GET A LIFE.Little tip for you: much as STAR WARS is so Seventies, bashing Lucas for raping your childhoods is so Nineties and only shows you never grew up.Seriously, get... out... of... the... house... now.
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Oh come on Triumph, the man took the legacy of the greatest movie trilogy of all time and turned it into a flat, lifeless, badly written mess that made no sense, bottled out when it should have been darker, and managed to show every fan who made him rich (had we not loved the original movies, and spent so much on seeing it over and over, and buying the merchandise, would Lucasfilm and ILM have got big enough to eventually make the sequels???) that they don't mean shit. He has less respect for the fans of the original trilogy than any director ever has. Fuck him forever. As for me as a geek... Left my Mum's years ago, met a girl, had LOADS OF SEX!!!, moved in with her, and over the years ground her down until she too became a brainwashed geek like me, who also hated the prequel trilogy. And she's not that fussed about Star Wars in general.
But here's the thing, Triumph. If Lucas can rape MY childhood... tell your childhood to watch it's back. Lucas will find a way to rape yours too.
And it hurts. -
Therefore, I'm at the multiplex that weekend. :)
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thats all i have to say about that.
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For many geeks is there ever even a first time?
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Ingeld - Yep, the very first time you see that endless expanse as the Star Destroyer rumbles over your head in the movie theatre, inevitably bearing down on the Rebel blockade runner... man, I will never forget my first time. Oh, and the sex too. ;p
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It's called irony, dude. You gotta love those double entendres.
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Check out this teen movie article and scroll down for a pretty nifty piece about ANGUS; http://tinyurl.com/2rbwck
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Where the whole thing was based on a stupid marketing idea, if that's what it takes to get this thing released then I'm all for it. Man I've been waiting forever. When did they actually start this thing?
Oh and why are there still people that think Lucas' neck is to do with weight? Or that the misconception is all that funny? Lame. It's all like, whatever dude, as the hip kids say. -
Dont tell me you're the ONE guy on the planet that didn't?!
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Fuck star wars. The movie that changed my life was 'Taxi Driver'. Watched it on a sunny Sunday afternoon, edited, on FOX 5, back when Fox had no programming airing B movies like 'The Tomb' and the mini-series like 'V'...aaah the good 'ol days, but, I digress. Scorsese remains a film deity. Thank you.
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Listen, all this "Lucas raped my childhood" bullshit has got to end. I am a part of the "77 generation too and while I love Star Wars in that "Special way" and I don't always agree with everything Lucas/lucasfilm does it doesn't mean that I regard him as some kind of Evil tyrant. I'll always be grateful to him for giving me something special in my life. No matter what came later will be able to tarnish the memories I have of the originals and my formative years. In the end it is his "baby" not ours, you may not like everything about it (and that is your perogative) but try at least to put things in a more realistic perspective... Don't hate the playa, hate the game!
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It's true.
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of all the just bluntness talkbacks have said over the years that has to be one of the bluntest..."they're fat...it's true" thanks man, made my night
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Spud McSpud, you said, "But here's the thing, Triumph. If Lucas can rape MY childhood, tell your childhood to watch it's back. Lucas will find a way to rape yours too. And it hurts."You know, just to make sure we're on the same page, Spud, when you say it that way, you make it sound as if you're way OLDER than me...a product of the Original Trilogy...and you're trying to warn me as a younger fan of the Prequels. Just so you know, I WAS THERE on May 25, 1977 as a high school teenager and I loved STAR WARS so much, it influenced my life to such a degree, that it propelled me to film school and eventually made me realize I just had to move to Hollywood to pursue my own personal dreams. Which is where I am today.So going back to my original post, I just think those who were disappointed by the Prequels have to get over it already. As I said, Lucas-bashing and "my childhood was raped" is sooooo 10 years ago. Move on already, folks. Really. There are new films, new franchises, and new things to focus on -- look to the future, not back.Oh, and by the way, as a now-grown "geek" adult with a family life who comes into contact with plenty of other grown "geek" adults with family lives all their own, too, I've met plenty of parents who took their kids to the Prequels...who then fell head over heels in love with them the same way we once did. The way I see it, Ewan McGregor as Young Obi Wan is THEIR hero, whereas we had Luke for our time.Now do I wish the Prequels had been different in certain ways? Sure, speaking as writer, I can think of story angles or particular creative directions I wish Lucas had chosen instead. But I can also appreciate the no-win scenario he found himself in. No matter WHAT he did, someone was going to bitch that it didn't meet THEIR vision for "what" the Prequels should be. So in the end, as a creator myself, I can appreciate what Lucas ultimately did -- namely he simply shrugged his shoulders and said "Look, it's my creation, so I'm just going to do the story I want to tell and do it MY way." And everyone just has to take it at that and move on.Like I said, it's over with -- well, at least till Lucas needs a large infusion of cash, which perhaps one day he will for yet another business expansion -- at which point hopefully the next 3 films will be tighter. I'd like to hope that the experience and backlash he caught over the prequels DID teach Lucas a few things. Frankly, I think there's clear evidence of that. I mean PHANTOM is a pale, pale shadow of SITH, which I actually thought was great. It's clear that even as he made the 3 movies, George got his old SW mojo back (and thank God he got it back by the time he had to stage The Duel which was the singular event everyone wanted to see).Bottom line: hopefully next time Lucas will realize that before you take the band on the road, you should practice a bit first. But until then it's time to move on and enjoy other things. That's all I'm saying. Hey, as Shatner was also pointing out in his infamous sketch, it's JUST a movie. Lucas bashers need to keep repeating that as well and focus their energy on things that are actually constructive, that will better their lives. Come on, you guys can do it. Say it. IT'S JUST A MOVIE...
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DMANN!!!!
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Thanks for an intelligent post that makes sense. Sadly, not too many people that frequent this place will "get it".
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We can but try...
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I was 8 when SW came out. I'm fuckin' old.
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Who am I fucking kidding, its 3 of the worst films in movie history. Sith sucked as bad as Menace. The duel was shit on a stick coated with CGI. Clones is the most boring film in the franchise and Menace might actually be better than Sith because of Liam. Bad acting, rusty directing and possibly the 3 worst screenplays in existence. You can suck the cock of Lucas all you like but the fact remains the he created 3 turkeys from a situation which was unthinkable to fail at. He should be given an award for doing so, because no other person on this planet including Uwe Boll could have managed it. 3 cheers for Lucas - They're shit, They're shit, They're shit now fuck off.
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"Whadda country! In America, Lucas rapes your childhood. In my country, Lucas is raped by YOUR childhood."
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Sith opens to a wondrous space battle, it looks fucking amazing! WOW! 10 minutes later, OB1 gets Force bitch slapped by Doodu, and crushed in one of the worst special effects i have ever seen in any movie!?! you know which one im talking about!
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Cuz he's like, really fat and stuff now.
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That's the shit I'm holding out for. Bring on Fanboys motherfuckers.
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I definitely appreciate your calm and well thought out post, but I can't believe you can defend Revenge of the Sith. That screenplay couldn't be more of a mess. There is absolutely no story, just a succession of narrative points that George made sure he hit. You're a writer? This isn't an insult only genuine dismay, but surely you can't be making your living in features.
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WTF?! How is Jango, Christopher Lee, thousands of Clonetroopers and that battle at the end boring! What, were you expecting a blowjob as well?
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"3 of the worst films ever made" have you seen the Sly Stallone remake of "Get Carter"?!! Or for that matter "Stop or my mom will shoot" or how about Steven Seagal's "Half Past Dead"...
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The comedy is a little too slapsticky and LCD in spots, but it definitely has some winning moments and was extremely relatable (for me, at least).
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it was probably asking for it.
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Hey guys, that was a nice diversion from all the Lucas is fucked morons on here. Thanks. The way I see it, it's like Paul McCartney. He had Sgt. Pepper when he was what, 27? What the simpletons here don't understand is that sometimes you peak (probably because they haven't), and although you may never reach those heights again, it doesn't diminish the original achievement. Sure he had hits with Wings and all, but Peppers changed the world (considering that it was mainly his album and the White album was mainly John). That's the best analogy I can think of as far as Lucas is concerned. Most people in fact get older, but no wiser. The guys on the other TB are saying Coppola is a talentless hack! It makes no sense to me as like you said later trangressions don't 'unmake' the greatness of the earlier creation (except maybe where you're talking special eds and the 'withdrawal' of the originals!). I was having a great conversation with Torture over in the AKW/Mark Romanek Werewolf tb about CG vs oldschool techniques about exactly the same thing with cg haters. Stop confusing the singer with the song, the tradesman and the tools and so-on. It's all about context. Prequels don't make the originals trash, cg doesn't somehow make stop-motion or opticals more 'magical' and being a cynical turkey doesn't automatically make you cool.
I think one thing about Star Wars is that it is more than just a movie (talking in a broader sense here) in that it's got a better record than most anything else in terms of inspiring the audience. What percentage of people in creative fields, the movie industry and even more specifically the VFX industry are there because of that film? Helluva lot. It was super constructive in that way. Not to mention that it's got a pretty decent batting average in terms of geeks that are actually married, have kids and so on. Triumph, it's great to hear that it inspired guys like you to put your money where your mouth is. Which is the secret shame of most of the whingers on this site. Theyl'l bash away but won't suck up the guts to put themselves on the line in the same way, which is the one thing that even the lowest hack director will always have over them. No wonder they're bitter and defensive. On the other hand of course, you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. The prequels did have a high suckage quotient! As for Sith, it may have been the best of the three (just being objective here), but remember that Spielberg helped out a lot with the duel and also remember that Lucas fucks it up completely by having it finish and going straight into screaming queen Threepio mincing about. Lucas may be much more of an editor than a director but he sure should have known better than that! If you have (here comes the music analogy again) a dark, moody song on an album you let it breathe for a couple of seconds before you start the next track/change of tone. An editor should know that. But there's an Elvis thing going on over there and George can't help that neither the 'cult of George' nor Rick McSychophant will tell him that sometimes his ideas are fucking awful, whether he wants to hear it or not. And of course the Elvis thing continues in that just because there was old junkie fatElvis, doesn't mean that there was no young gyrating Elvis. Understand, Monty? The folks on here being senbisle aren't defending the new stuff necessarily, just calling out the eejit haters who argue the new stuff makes the old stuff suck too. If you can make the distinction, point it out fer Chrissakes.
As for getting a life, I was at a Star Wars convention when Sansweetubercollectorguy revealed that McGregor had signed on. I cheered - and it echoed around the room as I realised NO-ONE else in the place knew who he was (and this was in OZ, not the U.S. - he was definitely a 'known' actor). I thought Shatner was going to jump out with his famous line right then. Over dinner that night I realised that the myopic supergeeks didn't know about him because they all thought they had to focus on SW or sci-fi/fantasy and nothing else - not film in general, not art, not writing, not 'having fun' in the regular sense. They'd all misunderstood, and instead of opening their horizons they were there because they'd become so inward that a supposedly social gathering had become a security blanket (I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush mind you, other cons were great). These were the same people who later on had deluded themselves into "It took me 10 viewings, but in the end I really like Phantom Menace", and the same ones that then decided Lucas raped their chilhoods when it was obvious that the tide had turned and majority opinion was against them. I must admit though that when I first saw Episode 1 For the first few minutes I thought it was the greatest thing ever because with the 'badly dubbed Asian bad guys' I thought it was going to be the most over-the-top b-movie ever seen. Then I realised it was only funny in the 'unintentionally hilarious' way. Oh well.
Prequels would have ruled though if only they'd put in "All your base are belong to us". -
It's probably still the best coming-of-age film since Bill Forsyth's "Gregory's Girl". I'd love to see the completely-excised subpolot about the titular character's gay father, too.
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Ah what am I apologising for? No-one reads my posts!
DathCorleone, what's 'LCD'? -
I seriously jumped and fucking cheered at the midnight showing when Mace ended The Party (tm) and Jedi popped out from fucking everywhere.I didn't mind the cheesy romance crap so much because it was intercut with an episode of "Obi Wan, PI." And the punchline of that section was the clone army assembled and Obi Wan's "holy fucking shit" look. The Jango battle on the landing platform was icing on the cake.
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AOTC was the best of the prequels(not saying it was good) with the other two being equal crap with highlights(Maul, Neeson, MacGregor).
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. . . GOTTA EAT while FIRST Raping all your Jar Jar lovin' childhoods! are there any other talkback cliches I missed while still being able to structure a cohesive statement?
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I'm a huge Star Wars fan and supporter, but garbage that cashes in on the dork-ass fanbase can kiss my ass. Most of the people that participate in bullshit projects like this are the same people that say Lucas is insane etc. I like Star Wars, I'll never cash in on it in my own mediocre way and to hell with all of you fucking nerds who do. You are the the reason that Star Wars is synonimous with fucking dorks.
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It's about the life of the writer/director of the movie, so if he is poking fun at fans then he is poking fun at him self, and I have to say being part of the original Star Wars generation this looks fantastic, way better than Fanboys.
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http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QKXP41S2
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I assume there won't be any witty star wars discussions ala CLERKS. (Since STAR WARS as we know it has yet to invade the lives of the characters until that day.)
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...KRISTIN BELL IN SLAVE LEIA OUTFIT!!!! HELL YEAH!!! Otherwise, they can go eat my fodder. :)
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....WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY!!!
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Sounds good, but if I remember correctly, nobody was hyped to see Star Wars when it came out; it was a slow word-of-mouth deal, wasn't it? P.S. I was R2-D2 in our fifth-grade play, Star Wars II.
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I saw TPM in the theater with some friends and then rented AOTC from Netflix after a good long wait. I still haven't seen ROTS, and I suspect I'm a happier person because of it.
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but i dunno, the trailer was kinda MEH. It could be good. Of course there's the easy shots at Star Trek. But the Enterprise could arguably warp out of there before the Death Star could totally fire up. http://tinyurl.com/f9tav
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TPM got almost everything right. If it hadn't been for the over-annoyance of Jake Lloyd and Jar-Jar the movie would have been a lot better, yes, but it's STILL the best of the prequels. TPM is the only one where I got chills watching it, with the whole Palpatine setup (which was ruined in AOTC and ROTS), the podrace which I couldn't believe the brilliance of, the saber fight (which is clearly the best in the prequels by a long way), the fact that it FELT like a Star Wars movie. And on later viewings I liked it even more, I couldn't wait to see what kind of Jedi Anakin turned out to be and all the possibilities that were there for episodes 2 and 3. But it didn't happen.
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But conflicts kept me from it. :( I'm still waiting for that big chance...
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Thats exactly the way I feel about TPM and I also agree with performingmonkey. If the Prequel Trilogy was an album then Clones would be the filler track. All 3 films could be condensed down to 2 which would have made way for a truly spectacular third film.
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is it me or was there nothing to that "review"
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Oh yeah, it was called 'Free Enterprise'.
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WITH GEORGE LUCAS' ONE GOOD SHIRT..YOU KNOW THE CHECKED ONE. IT WANTS TO KNOW WHY THE PREQUELS ARE FILLED WITH SCENES OF SHIPS TAKING OFF/LANDING. AND WHY ALL THE ACTORS FORGOT HOW TO ACT.
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For no good reason.
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Some of you joyless, cynical fucks are an embarrassment to movie geeks everywhere.
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I think one of the things I hated most about the whole Love/Hate thing about the prequels was after going to see ROTS on its opening night, being full of joy after having throughly enjoyed the movie... and then coming back to the AICN forums for the onslaught of hate. Man, that put me in a black depression for about a week. I firmly believe that a lot of haters were going around with "negative" tinted glasses on, determined to find fault werever they could and I'm sure that spoiled it for a lot of people including myself. Its alright to have a different opinion, we don't have to like/dislike the same things but when you're shouted down for finding simple joy in something that the pack has turned against... That Sucks.
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You know this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzDIClx-_pY -
if you were so effected by the negative talkbacks, maybe you didn't like the movie as much as you thought you did. someone else's opinion shouldn't change yours, or bring you down.
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half vader - Good points well made. The prequels do not tarnish the originals, which I can watch whenever I like, fair enough. I could careless about the SFX - considering ILM are the foremost experts in that field, it's given that the SFX will be awesome - but would you admit that the prequels did look a little Playstation demo-ey when the space fights kicked in? TPM had an exceptional sabre fight (at which point Lucas decided to kill off the most interesting character in the movie, Darth Maul!) which was let down by the space fight. Wasn't Anakin meant to be "the best pilot I ever met... and a good friend"? Granted, the pilot skills kicked in by AOTC and ROTS, but come on! Anakin manages to knock out the droid control ship by accident?!? Slapstick?!? And let's be honest, whether my generation or the generation that grew up with the prequels, have you met anyone, age 5-55, who enjoyed all the political crap? Yes, it's necessary - so make it backstory, deal with it offscreen and have more action, more SFX, more FUN on screen! How many kids LOVED the Senate scenes? And let's not get into JarJar... AOTC was okay to begin with, but as it grinds on the awfulness of the acting ability of Hayden Christensen, especially when compared to Ewan McGregor (doing some good work with a terrible script), really begins to come through. The scene where Anakin threatens Zam Wesell: "Who hired you, tell us." (Zam says nothing). "Tell us now!" Oh God, a teenager growled at me, what do I do, tough bounty hunter as I am? I'll decide to tell! Couldn't Anakin have just ignited his sabre and held it to her throat, rather than the weedy adolescent squeak of a threat that he made? It's shitty moments like that, when compared to scenes like Han and Greedo in SW:ANH, which really show up just how little of a shit Lucas gives about getting these films right. He's openly admitted that he treated the prequels as dry runs for new SFX techniques. In other words, didn't care whether the films were great, didn't care whether the acting was great (did he just luck out with Mark Hamill? 'Cos from an unsure actor in SW:ANH to the confident Jedi in ROTJ, Hamill's acting improved visibly and considerably), didn't care about whether the plots made sense, nothing. These films, that we original trilogy fans have waited for for 20 years, were a series of test effects runs for him. Uwe Boll may make shit, but at least HE tries. Lucas shat the sequels, he didn't craft them. Why are the villains robots and clones in the prequels, rather than stormtroopers as in the OT? Because as he got older, Lucas wussed out. We can't see Rebels killing real people - much better to have them killing robots and clones, he's got kids and a gizzard neck to consider these days! And as for ROTS... great opening sequence, rapidly descending into farce as would could've been an almost Shakespearean fall from grace story is rendered utterly useless by "acting" from Christensen that could be rivalled by any tree you care to name. For crying out loud. My problem with the prequels is that one thing we missed the most about it is the one thing that costs nothing: A SENSE OF PRIDE IN WHAT HE WAS ACHIEVING. Good acting, good drama and good writing cost a lot less than great SFX - if Lucas was prepared to pay so much on the effects, why not hire a better writer to craft a good script over his story?. Too many people around him afraid to say "Erm... Mr Lucas... That doesn't make sense." Why not actually pay attention to the auditions for the prequels - seriously, Christensen was the best they came up with? How lame were the OTHER guys?!? The fans of the OT made Lucas a very rich man through supporting the movies, the spin-offs and all the merchandising. He repaid their loyalty, their support and their love by making a trilogy that was slapdash, badly written, badly acted, just plain bad. Not "I did my best" bad, just "can't be arsed" bad. THAT'S what I'm so angry about with the prequels. I'm perfectly capable of watching a film the way a kid does; sometimes a big, dumb spectacle is all you need. BAD BOYS II is a lot of big dumb fun, but then I don't want a subtext in a Michael Bay movie, I want great stunts, loads of action and some profane, funny lines. In the prequels, you want fun, believable characters, you want lots of action, lots of new aliens, spaceships, worlds, concepts, effects; but none of that matters without a great script (everything starts with the script!), a great director (who actually knows how to direct actors) and great actors (who need a great script to begin with, otherwise how can they be great?). Lucas let them down, let us down, let YOU down. My life isn't on hold because of how shit the prequels were; there's always the LOTR trilogy, or the MATRIX movies. But if anyone asks my opinion on the prequels... A half-hour rant is definitely in order. Y'all are entitled to your opinions, but shit is shit, no matter what sauce you serve it up with. Bottom line: Lucas put money above art, and his own disinterest above the hopes of his fans. Which is why the prequels are, and will always be, unforgivably shit.
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Listen, fair enough if you think those films suck but "Lucas put money above art, and his own disinterest above the hopes of his fans"?!! Man your hate has warped our mind. Tell you what, why don't you tell him that to his face, in fact give him the whole rant. If I was Lucas and you accused me of that I'd knock you on your arse and I'd feel well within my rights to do so. You think you could do better, fine, go write something, get into film making or whatever. Its real easy to be a critic, you can judge other people's efforts as harshly as you want but if you want real respect from me, go create something, put your heart and soul into it AND THEN be prepared to have it picked apart by the public. This is what I'm talking about when I critisize the lack of perspective on here. You'd think the man HAD actually raped you or something instead of making something you were disappointed with...
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No Frank my opinion of the movie was not changed by the hate of the forums and it never will. What bothered me was I think that a lot of people wouldn't look at anything Lucas does objectively ever again. I think Lucas is in a no-win position, theres no way he can please all the people, he has become a figure of (irrational) hate. I think he's made the right decision to go back to small, indie projects that interest him.Pretty much what he wanted to do when he got into film making in the first place.
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And I first saw SW on its 1st re-issue run in the early 80s. Lucas is fine by me - people are just upset because he's so successful he can do whatever he wants, and does. I say, cool - but fire McCallum and Sansweet. They are killing you, George.
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I don't think he's in a no-win position. Really, the only thing Lucas needs to do in order to set everything straight and be cool again is to remake the original trilogy. Seriously, if he does that he will solve everything. The two trilogies will fit together, and he will be able to re-release the original versions of the original trilogy indefinetly without it looking like he's changing his mind about them. Seriously, original trilogy remakes.
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"5-25-77" should change it's title to "THX 5-25-77."
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Firstly, I'd LOVE to be able to tell this to George Lucas' face. I'd ask him all kinds of geeky quiestoins, like "Why did you feel the need to have Greedo shoot first?". Questions that I'm sure you feel far too morally superior to we lowly "Star Wars geeks" to ask yourself. Fine, you think you have more perspective than me. The point is, I'm comparing the new trilogy to the old trilogy of the Star Wars saga - period. That's all the perspective I need on this subject. I am comparing the new films to the old, and the new ones are shit. Can you REALLY compare the performances of Hayden Christensen to Mark Hamill's? Natalie Portman to Carrie Fisher? Ordinarily, you could argue that Natalie Portman is an excellent actress - but does that not make it even more obvious that the prequels are written far less intelligently than the originals? But the point you're missing is that I'm angry because I'm one of a legion of fans who have spent a lot of money following the saga, spending on toys and comics etc as a kid, and on numerous VHS/DVD releases as an adult. And when the news of the legendary prequels comes in, we wait with bated breath... for that shit. There are numerous interviews in the UK movie mags (including the big two EMPIRE and TOTAL FILM) in which Lucas goes on and on and on about the technological advances he's made with the saga, but precious little about the directing of the actors, the drama of the story, the writing... Other actors in the saga have noted that Lucas' direction of actors begins and ends with "Like that but faster," or "Like that but quieter". It's no secret that he's way more interested in the technology than the actors. This isn't always a bad thing: James Cameron manages to make movies full of cutting edge techno-advancement, but that engage the emotions too. George Lucas used to do that, too... until the prequels. For the record: I liked THX-1138. I loved AMERICAN GRAFFITI. And the INDIANA JONES trilogy are awesome. Google the net and look for interviews with Frank Darabont, who is still amazed that his Indy 4 script, ecstatically received by Steven Spielberg, and many other people involved with Indy 4, was dismissed casually by George. Is that not disinterest? Sounds like George has a case of "I didn't write it, so I don't like it". Which explains why he didn't have any help writing the prequels. He doesn't realise his limitations as a writer. No-one wants to tell him this either (fear of losing their job - money over art wins again). Reading between the lines on interviews with Rick McCallum after the prequels, again in the UK film mags, you get the impression he's not that impressed with the prequels either... but doesn't want to overtly diss them. At least he has a sense of humour about the inadequacies of the prequels, and isn't the rabid defender of them that you'd expect him to be.
You know, Rendell, some of us grew up absolutely loving those OT movies. All we asked for was a movie in keeping with them. There's a thousand ways to argue that the prequels are substandard, and not in a rose-tinted-specs way. Solid, film analysis type ways. The acting is worse. The writing is worse. The gaps in logic are much more huge. The climactic battle in ROTS looks like a Playstation demo, sacrificing drama (the drama of a "brother" having to kill his "brother") for like, REALLY COOL EFFECT man. The end of JEDI wasn't like that; it was a Jedi dragging his dying father to a shuttle - not much in the way of demo there, but much more emotionally powerful. THAT'S what the prequels lacked most: emotional truth.
As for do I mind being criticised? Well, YOU'RE criticising me, aren't you? That's what talkbacking is about. And while I disagree with you and you disagree with me, we have our opinions and our right to have them. Criticism, if backed with intelligence, can be a good thing. It's just a shame King George in his ivory tower can't listen to it more often; maybe he'd have made a better go of the prequels if he had. I'm not a director, or even a screenwriter yet: I've had short storied published in the UK, had them criticised and commented on. It's not the end of the world. But then my stories haven't made me a billionaire, and they haven't got literally millions of fans all over the world who have made me rich beyond my wildest dreams buying my saga (and all its peripherals). If they had, maybe I'd want to make those fans happy if I ever wanted to write prequels to them.
As for wanting your respect... as one human being to another, fair enough. But are YOU a writer? Have YOU ever been criticised? Aren't you taking this all a little personally?
TheNorthlander - Good God, man, NOOOOOOOO! Don't give the bastard ideas!!!!
Back on topic: 5-25-77 will have enough emotional investment to make it worthwhile. Maybe even enough to fill the yawning void created by the prequels. Go Patrick. Here endeth the lesson. ;p
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it was made by someone completely clueless and delusional about the project he was making. look no further than Jake Lloyd... and for the record I prayed and prayed that Clones would be good. it wasn't. and still, I prayed and prayed that Sith would be, well, a significant improvement (I no longer had hope that it would be a genuinely good movie). It was an improvement, but it's still a pretty weak movie. just my opinion. christ, i thought i was done posting about the goddamn prequels. Curse you Prequeeeeellss! Curse you!!
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I think you hit it on the head, as far as Lucas getting quite lucky with the original trilogy. The first movie by itself could almost have been lumped in with other movies like "Sword and the Sorcerer" or "Krull".
Okay, maybe not "Krull"...
Where he got very lucky was that everyone fell in love with Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher. It was the cast that sold the movie. The saddest failure of the prequels was that Lucas was unable to direct a cast to produce the same performances.
I've said it before and I'll say it once more...Natalie Portman could easily have won an Oscar when she was 12, and is damn near perfect in everything she does. There's only one way that she appears as lifeless and boring as she did in the prequels, and that's being squashed by the director. -
When did Star Wars start to go wrong? 1997, right? when he burnt the originals to make the special editions. If he hadn't, the original versions would have been restored today and released in better quality than we have today. Now, say what you will about the new trilogy, but it doesn't look or feel anything like the old one, does it? everything in them from the way the camera angles to the hair on the actors scream late 70's/early 80s in the old, and late 90's/early 00s in the new trilogy. That goes double for the visual effects. So if he remade the original trilogy, that would enable him to do anything he wanted with those movies and we could still enjoy the old ones without the constant michael jackson surgery he does to them.
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I so would like to see her portray Death of the Endless.
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I just shudder to think who he'd get for Luke, Leia and Han. Who I think Lucas would cast in a remake OT: Ryan fuckin Reynolds as Han; Chad Michael Murray as Luke; Shannon Elizabeth as Leia. Michael Clarke Duncan as Vader. Anthony Hopkins as Obi-Wan. My choices for a remade OT (shudder): Nathan Fillion as Han. Jacinda Barrett as Leia (she'd be hot in that gold bikini!). Devon Sawa as Luke (no, really!). Michael Clarke Duncan as Vader. Marlon Wayans as Obi-Wan. I'm kidding.
Still say 5-25-77 will be exceptional. Now if they could just make BILL & TED 3, I'd be a happy spud.
Shout outs: MontyPigeon, I bow to your wisdom. Triumph poops, you're right: Lucas needs to practice before going out on the road again. But then, lots of other directors hit the ball out of the park first go: Peter Jackson (LOTR trilogy), Wachowskis (Matrix), Lucas himself (Indy trilogy, the original three SW movies). I think he's just too busy giving the finger to the fans just to prove he can, rather than being concerned with making the prequels the best movies they can be. IF that's the case, why not collaborate with other writers/directors as in EMPIRE and JEDI? SPUD GOTTA EAT! I'm having pancakes, y'all. -
In the words of Darth Vader...'NOOOOOOOOOO'. Thank you.
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well thought out and reasonable, the kind of thing I wish we had more of here. I'm sorry if you think I'm emotionally detached as far as Star Wars Saga is concerned, if you knew me you'd know just how wrong that was. One of my earliest memories was being taken to see Star Wars on my Fifth birthday by my mum and it singlehandly fired my interest in Design, graphics specifically, which has guided my life since. And as for my "rant" about criticising Lucas etc. I won't bore you with the details but I've been putting my heart and soul into my own projects most of my life and I know all about criticism. Constructive and otherwise. As for Lucas, I suspect he's actually built up a siege mentality over the years. I get the impression that he's lacked self confidence from an early age and that his one true outlet was film making. He jealously guards his work to the point where he won't take suggestions from anyone. I know it was mooted that Spielberg wanted to direct one of the prequels and I suspect Lucas was very insecure about anyone, especially Spielberg, messing with his baby. Think about it, look at Spielberg's body of work compared to Lucas's, how could you not be intimidated by that?! I remember an interview with Lucas on the subject and he said something about "well Steven's got his own propertie's, Star Wars is mine.". He's not a tyrant at all, he's simply insecure and unfortunatly (for us as well as him) he doesn't realise it. I prefer to pity him, rather than hate him. I know what people will say "how can you feel sorry for someone with all that money?!!" Because I think George would much rather have the respect as a film maker, as a visionary... like his friend Steven. He IS a visionary but sadly he isn't the great director that he wanted to be. Tragically...
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I probably wouldn't watch the remakes. I just want him to stop killing the original versions. That said, here are my (non kidding) casting choices: Leia - Maggie Gyllenhaal; Han Solo - Sean Patrick Flanery; Obi-Wan - McGregor with age makeup; Vader - James Earl Jones (both those for RotS continuity).
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On every level possible. That includes the Jedi scuba-diving scene.
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Everyone knows that. Even Lucas.
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Thank you for that. I feel like I had an intelligent discussion with you on here, which IS nice as most AICN TB discussions usually end with "LUCAS TOTALLY PWNED YOU!" or whatever. Thanks for the reasoned debate. It sounds as if SW had the same effect on us - I too was 5 in 1977, which makes us both 34-35. In that case, we pretty much view the OT similarly, I guess. I've read a lot about Lucas' early life, many biographies as well as the excellent GEORGE LUCAS: THE CREATIVE IMPULSE, all of which paint a picture of a sh, introverted kid who saw an outlet in making movies. There was also the outlet in racing cars too, which surfaces in AMERICAN GRAFFITI and the many chase sequences in the SW saga. He did get public acclaim at a fairly early age with STAR WARS, a level of success that I'd defy ANYONE (even Michael BAY!) to deal with well at that age. He must have been crippled with doubt after completing ROTJ; how the hell do you follow that trilogy up? And as Steven is churning out hit after hit: Jaws, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, RAIDERS, ET, TEMPLE OF DOOM... It's true: Spielberg diversified and excelled in all genres. George, I suspect, was paralysed by the expectations after the SW trilogy. Raiders was probably perceived as more Steven's than his, as Spielberg directed them, so.. no wonder if he felt inferior or whatever. I don't think the critical ball-mashing that he received for HOWARD THE DUCK (which I quite like in a very kitsch so-bad-it's-good way - and I swoon over Lea Thompson!) helped much. The siege mentality would've kicked in there, I suppose. But this is where you have to grow as an individual: to hone that instinct that sorts out general constructive criticism that could be of use from general snarking, bitching for the sake of it and the sarcasm of people who are, underneath it all, just plain jealous of your success. No doubt you've encountered this if you work in graphics, a subject I've never worked in but read much about. Personally, the most criticism I ever had was when I played the lead role in a stage production of Terry Pratchett's MORT for a local group in 1999. I had the gamut of criticism, from "an excellent, measured performance" to "monosyllabic, sullen and just plain boring" (well, Mort is meant to be!). But I learned from the constructive negative comments, and enjoyed the positive. To succeed in any artistic endeavour, you have to be able to engage with your audience, whether with those you hope to influence with your graphic design, me hoping to move an audience on stage, or George hoping to write a prequel trilogy that equals its predecessor. I think that George's LFL empire surrounded him with too many "Yes" people, who were afraid to tell him what wored and what didn't. If everyone around you is someone you hired, and you're likely to fire them if they don't agree with everything you say (hey, he might be like that?), eventually all you'll ever hear is "Yes" to everything. It's sad. There is a part of me that, like you, feels pity for a guy who is obviously cowed by the intimidation he feels at having to equal the colossal success of the OT. But it tends to be drowned out on these talkbacks by the pissed-off part of me that just KNOWS it could've written three better scripts. Am I right to think this? We'll never know. Certainly it's egotistical. But anything would be better than the mess of a scene where Mace Windu dies like a bitch when facing the Emperor, or that laughable threat to Zam Wesell, or the snivelling tones of "You underestimate my poooo-wer!" in ROTS. The irony is, Hayden is OK in My Life as a House and Shattered Glass; he just sucks in the prequels. Because George isn't as good a writer or director as he thinks he is - which is why the best OT movies are the ones he collaborated on. Anyway, Rendell, good luck with the graphics, take the rough with the smooth, and cheers for a well reasoned, civilised conversation. 5-25-77 WILL FUCKIN PWN YOU DUUUUUUUUUDE!!! Sorry, the geek got out. Take care, friend. (And we;re all better people ;D)
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I appreciate the compliments!I'm certainly not pretending that the prequels are perfect, that they couldn't be better. I suppose I just tend to concentrate on the aspects that I do like. For example, that scene in ROTS aside, I think Ian McDiarmid holds the prequels together almost single handly. He's talented enough to know what needs to be done in a scene without much direction...99.9% of the time. Lucas doesn't know how to handle actors that is well known but he does know how to make fantastic visuals. I wouldn't know where to begin in a list of my favorites but I do know that most of those images will remain in my memory to my dying day. I suspect it will be that way for a lot of people regardless of their opinion. I look forward to seeing this movie when it comes out and if it captures even a flavour of that period, well thats fine by me!
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Ah yes. A Michael Bay film. Starring Martin Lawrence and Will Smith as two NASA scientist cops. Andy Dick as the Duck. Lea Thompson... just 'cos she's still sooooo HOT. ;p
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When you consider the effect the original films had on the industry, nevermind the public, its hard to imagine how things would have turned out without them. I'm sure we would still have made those advances but over a much longer period. I think something we should bear in mind about Lucas and his need for control is that in the '70s there was a lot of examples of Studio interference in movies. Cuts and changes being ordered, over ruling Directors etc. That must have had a profound effect on Lucas' mindset. Later on when he'd made his fortune from the original trilogy, He knew he could do whatever he wanted, that no studio would be able to interfere with his work.
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Sith was a BIG improvement, but it was still a bad movie. The novelization was actually better because the author added a lot of emotion that was missing from the feature film. And as bad as Phantom Menace was, I still say it had the best soundtrack of the Prequels.
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just watched SW TPM with Rifftrax.com audio commentary by the MST guys. Funny stuff! They really convey the horror a fan feels trying to get through that crap.
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...For every pasty 30-something that hates the prequels there are legions of 8 year old boys who think they are fucking AWESOME. I witnessed this phenomena with my nephews. No, there will be no films 30 years from now lametning how much they sucked. Chances are they will be largely forgotten for they didn't bring antying new or revolutionary to the table.
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Apparently, my posts were deleted and my account disabled. I don't think I said anything inflammatory, and I don't think I behaved in a manner inconsistent with my typical manner.Did I err?
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Feb 18, 2007 9:52:02 AM CST
Something tells me this is going to be a lot like . . .
by smackemyackem
Detroit Rock City. Except that it will take place a year earlier, and Star Wars will be serving as the stand-in for Kiss.
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Boring
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Darth Vader's a badass and all, but Frank Booth would still kiss him on his faceplate and then beat him down. "You ever been to pussy heaven, Vader?" "DON'T BE A GOOD VADER!"
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I have no doubt that legions of 8 year olds think that the Prequel Trilogy is "AWESOME". But yeah, those films won't resonate with them like the Original Trilogy did with us. The Prequels just aren't very good movies. Those same 8 year olds won't care about them in 10 years, much less 30. And The Phantom Menace is far superior to Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. In 20 years those two films will be looked down on even more than they are now.
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how there are so many people who believe that TPM/AotC/RotS was the best film in the trilogy, and that TPM/AotC/RotS dropped the ball and sucked horribly... whenever someone says "Lucas was in a no-win situation" I want to call bullshit on it b/c it sounds like a cop-out, but I think it's true. The only *real* flaw with any of the movies is that there was too much of George in all of them, and not enough of anyone else. I don't think it's coincidental that the only original trilogy film Lucas had no hand in directing was ESB, and that's widely considered to be the best of the three. He was and is a wonderful visionary, and is one of the most gifted action directors alive today (for reference, compare to Peter "What The Hell Is Happening In This Scene" Jackson). But just because he came up with all these awesome ideas about the Force and Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker etc., that doesn't automatically make him the best choice to tell the stories himself.
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is that there were actually a lot of cool ideas there (midichlorians aside). The clones, Vader choking his wife, Coruscant, the clone wars, darth maul, etc. All cool ideas, all could have been executed much better than they were. If only he had given them to another director...
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they're like CHILDREN that wander into a candy store... seriously remember how everything you watched was awesome no matter how crappy it was? yeah. And i agree w/ the general consensus that Phantom Menace no matter how awful lil Anakin/Jar jar, the other things collectively blow away clones/sith.
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bravo LordMadhammer, bravo. guy can't direct action, 'i've watched private ryan/JFK to get the angles influence for the action scenes' my ass.
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I seriously can't wrap my mind around that. I understand te argument but I guess I just don't agree with it. 80% of it is basically unwatchable. I agree that the pandering to fans and the acting in the latter two is disgusting, but at least they have their moments.
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However, even the original trilogy doesn't hold up well. I went back and watched them recently, after not having seen them in many years. Yuck. I mean, really. Yuck.
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