Feb. 7, 2007, 5:47 a.m. CST
First. Can't wait to see the film
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:49 a.m. CST
by THE FOOT THAT KICKED THE CRADLE
Something about her face freaks me out.
Feb. 7, 2007, 6:02 a.m. CST
by THE FOOT THAT KICKED THE CRADLE
her face and the ginger beast within. they have no soul.
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:51 a.m. CST
looked very cute in Dead Calm.
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:54 a.m. CST
by THE FOOT THAT KICKED THE CRADLE
You might be right, anyone who puts the beatdown on Billy Zane, can eat my cookie. though the curls freak me too. ginger pubes
Feb. 7, 2007, 6:59 a.m. CST
Films will disappoint. No matter how good the first one is, the second will bomb, as its not as good a story and if the third is even made, it will be a disaster unless they adapt it heavily.
Feb. 7, 2007, 7:09 a.m. CST
Don't they basically kill God at the end of the third book? I don't think that's going to sit well with the general public. And I agree with Kizeesh. The end of the first book was friggin' awesome. After that... not so much.
Feb. 7, 2007, 7:34 a.m. CST
well its not really God, you see thats how he manages to include God and refute God in the same book. bit of a mindfuck there if you ask me. Its just the oldest living "angel" who proclaims himself to be God. Thats why the last book will fail as a movie, its preachy and lacks any of the narrative impetous that the first 2 books had.
Feb. 7, 2007, 7:32 a.m. CST
by Nice Marmot
Thought book 2 was as good as, if not better than, book 1. Don't even think book 3 was as bad as most think. Although there is some seriously weak stuff in it like the Elephant Biker creatures & the battle at the end. As much as I like the books, I have a BAD feeling about the first one's film adaptation being successful enough to warrant the 2nd & 3rd. And people need to realize that the books speak out against FANATICAL BIBLE THUMPERS, not the BIBLE itself.
Feb. 7, 2007, 7:45 a.m. CST
Oh yeah, 150 million. Seems like you had to mention it about a hundred times. The budget doesn't matter. It could be 50m or 300m. The whole thing rests on the shoulders of the storyteller - the director. If it's immersive then people will forgive cheap effects. If it's boring, then everything about the movie will be criticised. Why are you so hung up on the budget, Mori? I know you tried qualifying your concerns, but you do come off overly negative about the prospects for this. The bottom line is, is the director up to it? We'll find out when the movie comes out......
Feb. 7, 2007, 7:50 a.m. CST
The real problem isn't that the film will challenge beliefs. The problem is that preachers/pastors/meninfunnyrobes/meninfunnyhats will be actively discouraging their flock from taking their children to see this film. Unfortunately, as influential as the Xian community was in bringing crowds out to Narnia, they will also be influantial in making this movie bomb. The controversy will be way worse than Life of Brian and The Last Temptation of Christ. With Life of Brian, you had the built-in Monty Python audience. With TLTOC, it was generally a pro-Christ message. Here we've got a direct atheistic response to the Narnia books. It's going to be bad.
Feb. 7, 2007, 8:39 a.m. CST
The Subtle Knife is stronger than book one (less pipe, more actual story) and the magical tool/device is a lot easier to explain: the knife is magic, it cuts windows into thin air, you can move through the windows into other worlds. Done. The boy lead, Will, also finally gives Lyra someone to play off of. I think if TGC plays well, movie 2 will also work. It's #3 that presents the major problems. It's the weakest book in the trilogy. And yes, the "God" character dies in it. Err, is murdered. This seems to feed a lot of the anti-trilogy/ban the books attitude out there. Which is odd. Because IMO the "God" character isn't representative of your personal God unless you uh, want him to be.
Feb. 7, 2007, 8:33 a.m. CST
I think that the most marketable selling point of the entire franchise right now is its attacks on organized religion. Sure, a lot of Christians are going to react negatively to it, but eventually curiosity will get the better of them if it manages to be controversial enough. Atheism is a hot topic right now, and the series itself raises some pretty complex and legitimate charges against the nature of faith and belief. They'll come, for the same reasons Liberty University students flooded Richard Dawkins' lectures. And if they raise enough of a stink, everyone else will come too.
Feb. 7, 2007, 8:54 a.m. CST
by The Decider
...Are going to make The Golden Compass a huge flop. A nation of fundamentalist Christians simply WILL NOT go and see an atheist fable.
Feb. 7, 2007, 8:49 a.m. CST
For what it's worth, I only know the story from the phenomenal 7-hour stage adaptation they did in London and the audience reaction was overwhelmingly positive, and they certainly didn't sugarcoat any of the metaphysical stuff. I'd say it demonstrated how an adaptation of these books will not necessarily alienate folks because of the religious implications. It certainly didn't prevent them from paying their $ to see the second night and it didn't prevent the whole run from being way sold out, including when it was brought back the next year due to its popularity. (I don't know how closely the last 3rd followed the 3rd book but it seemed just as exciting and involving as the rest of it to me)
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:11 a.m. CST
by Col. Tigh-Fighter
He confirms this in his new book, where he says as Toulouse Le'trec in Moulon Rouge he spent so much time on his knees he was able to look up Kidmans skirt. <p> Go John!
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:30 a.m. CST
Just put talking CG creatures and snow in the trailer and people WILL go see it. The whole daemon aspect is a surefire winner with kids and adults alike. Craig and Kidman will also attract enough attention, I feel. And in no way will this movie be an 'atheist fable' or whatever. Religious nuts only get on this series' back because they don't understand it (although that's Pullman's fault, he wrote a MESS of a third book that in parts is incoherent bullshit). It's like saying Dan Brown is trying to bring down the Church with his books. What IDIOTS you all are! It's just a fucking novel!!! It's only people INSECURE in their religious beliefs that have a problem with Brown or His Dark Materials or ANYTHING in novel form which supposedly 'challenges' religion.
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:44 a.m. CST
(Spoilers Follow About Book 3) If you think about it, Book 3 could actually make a terrific movie as long as they adapt it properly. When I read Book 3, I had the same problems most people did: too much time with the wheeled animals, not enough time covering the awsome battle against the Authority, and a very subtle, almost anti-climactic ending. <P> But don't forget: Book 3 had some amazing moments in it: The journey to death/hell, the "bomb", the battle with heaven, and finally a big reveal about what the true nature of dust is, and who exactly Lyra and Will are. <P> If they cut back a little on the Mary Malone story (who by the way, must be played by Toni Collette) and extend the battle with the Authority (remember, the battle of Helms Deep was only 25 pages in the Two Towers), the movie could be amazing.
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:49 a.m. CST
because the third film will be unrecognisable. i state my ground here, we can come back to check in 5 years time just fine.
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:50 a.m. CST
please don't group all clergy with the powerhungry manipulative crazies. Contrary to the way they've been portrayed in movies and books for the last 40 years (and it makes sense, it's a great plot device to have the corrupt moral leader) the real people are generally not really pulpit-pounding, free-will-hating, manipulative, massively hypocritical scumbags, just like Islamic clergy are, in general, not raving power-hungry militant leaders. Those are just the ones that make a lot of noise. I hope the movie is good-- I liked this book, although I did think the series dropped off in the second two, they weren't as tightly written.
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:52 a.m. CST
HDM so I can't comment on it, nor I have I ever even heard of it till this movie started up and AICN reported on it, but reDan Brown, I don't think it's his novels that are trying to bring the church down but rather his continual assertation that his novels are based on fact, he calls them "fact-ion" when most of his facts are based on shakey information and flat out lies that have been refuted. Now I'm not saying that we christians have it much better I know that there are many people who use the James ossuary as a p oint of evidence when there is little fact for that (I personally believe it's a fake but that doesn't shake my belief in Jesus), same with the Shroud of Turin and there is other stuff too that is shaky. It's ok to have beliefs CHALLENGED but so many, on both sides believers (any believer not ust christian) and atheists, are afraid to have their beliefs challenged that they believe anything that promotes itself as fact with little to no evidence, or even evidence in the contray.
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:52 a.m. CST
for a thoughtful post AND for the nice shout-out to the production designer. i don't think you have to worry about his creation of a 'hyper-real' oxford etc. good production designers do that all the time, it's just not really pointed out to you so specifically. example off the top of my head, since it's only 8 am and i'm not firing on all cylinders - all the harry potter movies. all the non-school environments are slightly over-the-top, just enough so you get the feeling something wacky COULD happen. it's a fun challenge for any designer.
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:55 a.m. CST
most people it seems here, think that Christianity preaches agaisnt free will and that is not simply the case, Biblical Christianity teaches free will that we are free to make any decision we want, but we must learn to live with the consequences of that choice, no matter how painful it may be. See Eustace turning into a dragon in Lewis' Voyage of the Dawn Treader for an excellent example of that
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:48 a.m. CST
I don't even remember if I finished. It just sort of went flying off the rails for me.
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:49 a.m. CST
that's the name of the bloody book, why can't they respect even that??! His Dark Materials was voted the 3rd best book ever in the UK (after LOTR and Pride and Prejudice)...but if they call it Golden Compass no-one would have a clue what they're on about..
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:51 a.m. CST
by The Decider
But, as peliopoulos pointed out earlier, these people don't do the thinking for themselves. Their priests/pastors/radio&TV personalities will tell them that if they allow their children to see this Satanic movie they will burn in hell.
Feb. 7, 2007, 10:20 a.m. CST
It's funny that free will is a topic in this movie, because that is exactly what is going to make or break this movie among the religious types. If some mouthpiece for the Christian right decides that this movie is 'evil', then a good percentage of the minions are going to stay away from it. It's just how religion works in this country. Those delusional zealots at Movieguide.org are going to have a FIELD DAY with this one.
Feb. 7, 2007, 10:29 a.m. CST
People are going to really start (if not already) hating the English accent if they do not stop making these mediocre fantasy/adventure (Eregorn/D&G/Narnia) type films. It is not even us that are making the fuckers.
Feb. 7, 2007, 10:38 a.m. CST
I don't totally agree. This is a fantasy work, after all - even if it's pseudo-modern and modelled after reality. After all, the book deals with angels and daemons - just not God in the way people normally think... furthermore, this is based on just the first book, so the crazier anti-religious stuff might not be so obvious in this particular film. In any event, it couldn't possibly be as horrible as Eragon or as sterile as Narnia. I expect something a little more Harry Potterish, but darker and less banal.
Feb. 7, 2007, 10:39 a.m. CST
According to a faq at www.darkmaterials.com: <p> Apparently, Pullman's original name for the series was The Golden Compass Says..., and that was the name under which he sent it off to American publishers. He heard nothing from them for months, and in the interim, decided (with his British publisher's full blessing) to rename the series His Dark Materials. Months later, RandomHouse sent a letter to inform him that they would be thrilled to publish The Golden Compass and, when Pullman explained that the name had changed, insisted that the cover artwork was already slated to publicly appear the following month, and it was too late to change the title.
Feb. 7, 2007, 11:21 a.m. CST
I suspect New Line will have to decide between keeping the film title "The Golden Compass" for the universal release of the film, or changing it for the UK audience to match the novel (much like "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's/ Sorceror's Stone"). I don't think it's a big deal, though. People are calling it TGC because that's what it's being called for the US press. Geez. And re: people who might start a movement to protest/shun the movie ... I strongly suspect it'll happen since the books are considered banned/blacklisted by some social and religious morality groups. (Ha, then again, so is "Are You There God, It's Me, Margaret"). But as we just witnessed with the Hounddog/Dakota Fanning news fury, it'll simply lead to more stories about the HDM films. And isn't it all about cultural awareness? Hmm, I think the movie'll do okay - not LOTR okay, but okay. It's the talking animals, people like 'em ... Anyone know who is on tap for the score, yet?
Feb. 7, 2007, 11:31 a.m. CST
Really Moriarty, really?
Feb. 7, 2007, 11:50 a.m. CST
Hey gang. First time I've posted, so bear with me. I don't think the books are anti-religious so much as they are anti-totalitarian. Pullman seems to be saying that any institution that wants to take away your free will and impose its institutional will on you is inherently evil. (See his brilliant essay called "The war on words", achived on The Guardian's website.) That institution can be religious in nature, but it could also be political, educational, whatever. Fundamentalism of all stripes is bad. While The Magistereum seems to be overtly religious, it's also political, isn't it? If you think about it? Isn't he saying that anyone who takes away your ability to make choices, whether a priest or a President, is someone to fight against? That anyone who decides for us is taking away a little bit of our precious Humanity? That's what I've always thought, anyway. Finally, and here's a big SPOILER for The Amber Spyglass (which, I agree, is about 100 pages too long): The Authority isn't murdered or killed. I'm not sure he even dies, exactly. The way I remember it, he is released. Freed from the dogmatic cage in which The Magistereum has placed him. And he is overjoyed to be finally free again, returned to the earth and the air he came from. If that is not a profoundly spiritual message, I don't know what is.
Feb. 7, 2007, 12:14 p.m. CST
thank you wikipedia *laugh* I think the main reason people read an antireligous mesage into HDM, from what' I've gathered, is that it's because Pullman is an atheist. lauawill may be right again I've not read HDM, but am going to, it may be about freedom from anything totalitarian. Reading an anti-Christian message into these books may be just as bad as reading a strictly christian message into Narnia or a strictly Mormon message in Card's Alvin Maker boks because we know and the author has been very open about their beliefs
Feb. 7, 2007, 1:15 p.m. CST
a film should question authority. They might upset fascists everywhere!
Feb. 7, 2007, 1:04 p.m. CST
See but unlike Harry Potter, His Dark Materials is the kind of movie series that would not benefit from staying faithful to the source material. To work as a film that story needs ruthless adaptation. It CAN work as a great movie as long as they streamline and stick to providing intrigue with the main plot of children being secretly kidnapped and taken to away and the little girl going to the North to save them. As long as they shorten and simplify everything else centered around that mission, it should be capable of capturing audiences. The only real difficult thing to me seems to be when Lyra constantly uses the alethiometer. It gets really boring on paper. Hopefully they limit the amount of times she uses it and make it different everytime. Ultimately when I read this book I realised that this was the kind of thing that would work excellently as a Miyazaki animated feature, but oh well.
Feb. 7, 2007, 1:22 p.m. CST
by Spandau Belly
that should be what they aim for with a movie like this.
Feb. 7, 2007, 2:16 p.m. CST
This does not have the brand name value that Lord of the Rings or Narnia have. I predict it's going to need excellent word-of-mouth, a brilliant marketing campaign, or both to make that money back.
Feb. 7, 2007, 2:17 p.m. CST
Feb. 7, 2007, 2:09 p.m. CST
by Abin Sur
Really out on a limb there, aren't ya, Mori?
Feb. 7, 2007, 2:26 p.m. CST
by Thomas Cromwell
I'm suprised Pullman is an aethist, considering that his two biggest inspiratinos are John Milton and William Blake, one a Puritan and the other possibly the most spiritual man who ever lived. Pullman shares Blake's anti-clericalism and obsession with free will and used a lot of the imagery of 'Paradise Lost' in HDM. P.S: I second Mori's view of Eva Green...what a goddess she is.
Feb. 7, 2007, 3:04 p.m. CST
Book 1 is fairly lacking in controversy, and I'm sure the marketing campaign is going to focus on armored polar bears, daemons, villainous Nicole, etc. There will be a few cautionary essays warning people away, but the marketing blitz should overwhelm that. If they get around to the second and third movies, though, it could be a different story.
Feb. 7, 2007, 3:08 p.m. CST
really i didn't know that about Pullman (re: his influences being Milton and Blake) but everything I read about him, through many interviews etc but espicailly agian wikipedia (take it for what it's worth) that Pullman is an athesist. I don't think Pullman set out to create an "anti-narnia" if you will but, again without reading the books, i think that people are reading that message into his books just like many people read a STRICTLY christian message into Lewis, ignoring the inclusion of many pagan influences (i.e. Bacchus, etc). Do i think their respetevie views colored their works, yes, but I don't think it was the driving factor. But i could be wrong, it's just my opinion
Feb. 7, 2007, 3:45 p.m. CST
Having read the books, the reason that many religious people will/do not like the book has nothing to do with the personal politics of Mr Pullman. It has to do with the fact that the church is in charge. They run the world, do all sorts of sweet totalitarian things, like killing gypsies and torturing children in Spitsbergen. And I disagree with Moriarty that Unfortunate events struck the right tone. Jim Carey was too over the top to really be scary, and though the sets were nice, the film didn't seem to have an identity, or a coherent mood; it reminded me more of a Columbus Potter film.
Feb. 7, 2007, 4:03 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... yeah, they showed us some of the rough animation of Iorek. Again... very nicely done, but I think it's hard to sell the movie based on that when you live in a culture where computer animated polar bears = Coca Cola commercial for many people.
Feb. 7, 2007, 4:35 p.m. CST
then they're really not ready for this one. Prayer doesn't exactly figure in this movie's philosophy. I'm told they're going to tone down the series' snarky antitheism, but I'm not sure what they would replace it with. As much as I dislike the destruction of the artist's original vision, they're going to have to change the story big time if they want to a appeal to a wider audience than readers of "The Selfish Gene".
Feb. 7, 2007, 4:38 p.m. CST
by Quin the Eskimo
Polar Bears are the most vicious predator known to man
Feb. 7, 2007, 4:48 p.m. CST
Hopefully the story is heavily adapted and changed from the book to make it more tolerant of other world views. It is sad that they miss the point that Christianity frees people to have free will not restricts them. That is the whole point God wants people to be free to choose Him rather than be robotic atomotons forced to serve him.
Feb. 7, 2007, 4:40 p.m. CST
"ice cold" kidman
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:11 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
and says it's a nice childrens story and the film would only be a good adaptation if the film-makers remember that. I don't know, I haven't read it - but sounds to me this is more in the Narnia vein than LOTR (I always considered Narnia more kiddy than LOTR).
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:12 p.m. CST
as a delighted reader of LOTR, Chronicles, Unfortunate and the Charles Wallace books, I found this series boring, simplistic, and very disappointing.
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:21 p.m. CST
It's true, TAF. I read the first one and while I eventually managed to get through it, it's not a very well written novel and and in parts seems even amateur dare I say. However, regardless of its poor simple and boring prose, it has an intriguing plot and imaginary elements that can make for a great thrilling movie about a girl who sets journey to save abducted children taken to the North and learns how to control and trust her instincts along the way. That and BADASSMUTHERFUCKING Polar Bears fighting to the death!
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:24 p.m. CST
...still, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix will probably beat the shit out of this. Speaking of these types of movies, what's happening with Where The Wild Things Are? When's that supposed to come out? Will it be competing with Golden Compass or will it be out later?
Feb. 7, 2007, 5:46 p.m. CST
That's how you sell the fucking movie. Armoured fucking Polar bears. That and the daemons, especially the shape shifting ones. It's fucking brilliant material for adaptation if done correctly. The Hot Air Ballon rescue scenes and the escape from the lab are incredibly rich sources to make an adventure film with. That's how it will be sold.
Feb. 7, 2007, 6:42 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
[shot of earth from outer space, zoom into the north pole - a sheet of ice breaks away into the ocean] Mr Voiceover: Imagine a world in peril. [shot of a stampede of polar bears] Mr Voiceover: Imagine a world unlike anything you've seen before. [shot of Daniel Craig speeding his Aston Martin over the polar surface. cut to Nicole Kidman fighting someone Matrix-style] Mr Voiceover: And imagine that world was here (cue the Hans Zimmer music). [Daniel Craig "according to your calculations, this world will drown!", Al Gore "yes"] Mr Voiceover: One world. [Nicole Kidman "what can we do?" / cut into shot of more roaring polar bears with laser beams on their heads] Mr Voiceover: One mission. [Daniel Craig "there's only one who can use the compass" / shot of a battle scene or something with flashing lights] Mr Voiceover: One compass. [shot of little girl walking alone through the snow holding.. wait for it.. a compass]. Mr Voiceover "JRR Rowling's, His Dark Compass" - rated R. [shot of a dark cave.. "my preciousss"]
Feb. 7, 2007, 7:51 p.m. CST
...it's the second and third (If they make them) that will be raping the source material. There's no way a major studio will drop bank on a Church bashing. No matter how brilliant it is.
Feb. 7, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST
,,,,,,,,,,,, ;;;;;;;; some commas an semicolons, OR get an editor.
Feb. 7, 2007, 8:48 p.m. CST
I kept reading and now you have too many commas.
Feb. 7, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST
"Ioryk Byrnson says drink Coke!"
Feb. 7, 2007, 9:04 p.m. CST
I was beginning to get a bit fidgety while reading your article, and I wasn't entirely sure that I was comfortable with what I was reading about this production. But then you slammed Ann Coulter. That gave me a warm feeling inside and made me remember that you are one of the good guys after all, so I should trust your judgement. Great article, keep it up!
Feb. 7, 2007, 10:43 p.m. CST
Love the books, despite the flaws, but it's been a couple of years. (Spoiler?) Did I forget something? Does Lyra think that Asriel is her uncle in the first book? I guess it's time to go back and read. Oh yeah, and I think this series would be better off as novels, not as films. Some things are more believable when left to the imagination.
Feb. 8, 2007, 12:40 a.m. CST
When you think about the name of the trilogy and the name of the other books in this series, the Golden Compass is actually a better fit. Using a natural phenomenon as a "Dark Material" really doesn't make much sense.
Feb. 8, 2007, 2:42 a.m. CST
It's Scandinavian ( not sure whether it's Danish, Swedish or Norwegian)
Feb. 8, 2007, 3:01 a.m. CST
When choosing ideological opponents Pullman didn't exactly go for broke, did he? "Hmmm, dead C.S. Lewis... Mohammedans... dead C.S. Lewis... Mohammedans. Lewis it is!"
Feb. 8, 2007, 3:04 a.m. CST
So I'm really looking forward to seeing this film. It may turn out to be awful, but I'm still keen to see how they visualize Lyra's world. Seeing Iorek protect Lyra is going to make weep with joy if done right.
Feb. 8, 2007, 3:05 a.m. CST
Thank you so much for such an excellent write-up. It was intensely reassuring and great to see that you understood the material, and it's implications of garnering a stable audience.
Feb. 8, 2007, 3:50 a.m. CST
the first book of the trilogy is great, the second book flawed but still interesting, but the third is dogshit from start to finish: filled with the worst ideas, the clumsiest metaphors, the most didactic prose you ever read. as endings to trilogies goes, it makes matrix revolutions seems like return of the king.
Feb. 8, 2007, 9:14 a.m. CST
...so what if it tears up the ideas of organised religion in the minds of children but that's a great thing in my book. Having been an ardent fan of the trilogy generally i cannot wait to see if they can pull it off. I hope so.
Feb. 8, 2007, 10:45 a.m. CST
by Thomas Cromwell
...I personally didn't mind HDM as firstly it is fiction and Pullman didn't try to convince us otherwise (i'm looking at YOU Dan Brown) I just hope that all the loony End-Timers/Bush Worshippers will see this movie as ENTERTAINMENT not an attack on Christianity (although when referring to End Timers i use the term 'Christian' in its broadest possible sense).
Feb. 8, 2007, 10:47 a.m. CST
If you think its genius you need to read more good literature. It has some nice allusions to the classics and the biblical Eden redux concept at the end is an interesting idea, but its sluggishly executed with little or no real continuation of the world as a whole. Instead of continuing the narrative threads of the first 2 novels he ditched the majority of the story in favour of some trite moralising, attacks on the church and utterly out of character theatrics all round.
Feb. 8, 2007, 11:08 a.m. CST
Do you think that storyline will be included in the third movie? I'm betting that it's stuff like that which really got people's backs up. I think Pullman DID set out to rile everyone up with the third book and IMO that was a mistake because that's ALL he seemed to do and forget about story. He only had Lyra and Will's story planned and everything else was his spouting of BS that makes him sound like an a1 nutjob who over the course of the book makes up his own 'creation' story that involves the Authority (or God) being the first angel to come into being, when other angels were born out of Dust (look at Dust as sort of midichlorians) the Authority told them that HE was the one that had created them and the world. When the other angels found out the truth they rebelled against him but the Authority kicked their ass. Now Lord Asriel (Daniel Craig) wants to kick the Authority's ass back with the aid of the 'good' angels, so YES they are setting out to destroy 'God'. What they end up doing (Craig and Kidman's characters) is killing Metatron, who is an evil guy who is NOW ruling heaven and keeping 'God' locked up somehow (if you're still reading this please kill yourself...)
Feb. 8, 2007, 11:19 a.m. CST
which make no sense at all seeing as the angels in question are ethereal, made of random smokey stuff and dont properly exist on our plane. Can't reproduce and are gradually dying over the course of millenia and yet, somehow manage to have human genders. Which leads to the most farcical moment in the books where Mrs Coulter manages to seduce one. One of the oldest and most powerful and who hates humans. And yet Mrs Coulter is sooooo sexy that despite himself the angel fancies her and falls for her duplicities. I think I actually threw the book at a wall at that point out of complete and utter frustration.
Feb. 8, 2007, 11:54 a.m. CST
my problem with pullman's 3rd book is that it is truly terrible literature, crapping on everything that was interesting about the trilogy in the first place. anyone who's ever read paradise lost would recognise the potential for a good novel about declaring war on heaven, free will, etc. but 'the amber spyglass' isn't that novel. instead, it's a shrill attack on a caricature. it's funny that pullman had such a problem with CS lewis's heavy-handed christian moralizing in the later narnia books, because his painfully obvious allegory in the 3rd book makes lewis look like a master of subtlety. lewis's christian moralizing was bad but pullman's anti-christian moralising is ten times worse - at least lewis never spent two books building up your interest with some vivid characters, only to reduce them to stock figures in a lazy sermon at the end. and that whole attempt at science-fiction with the wheel-people? probably the most embarrassingly bad thing i've read in the last decade.
Feb. 8, 2007, 1:15 p.m. CST
you probably just started reading the book because the movies are comming out.... when some of us have been fans since the beginning, where the hell is our chance to visit the sets? This is bunk!!! BUNK!!! I cant believe no one from AICN had fucking heard of the his dark materials before the buzz about the movies being made. That is fucking sad. It shows how little you guys actually read or know about fantasy/sci fi. This site is full of poseurs who post shit about nerd fantasy/sci fi hype on here that have absolutely no knowledge or nostalgic ties to those nerd fantasies/sci fi hype until actually hearing about it being made into a movie. POSEURS!!! POSEURS!!!
Feb. 8, 2007, 3:13 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... you are a sad, strange little man. <P>I read HIS DARK MATERIALS not long after release, then re-read them last year. I'm glad you are a fan, but your bizarre little rant seems to be fuelled by jealousy rather than anything in the real world. <P>I'm perfectly willing to say when I'm not a fan of something or am unfamiliar with it. But I read voraciously, and I'm probably forgotten more fantasy than you've read.
Feb. 8, 2007, 5:12 p.m. CST
That's unfortunate, as much as I enjoyed what little of the war was written I was more interested in Lyra's journey and how she grows and how the prophecy unfolds. I actually thought it was an absolutely beautiful scene when she and Will kiss, that'll be the highlight of the movie for me should they pull it off correctly.
Feb. 8, 2007, 10 p.m. CST
Hey guys!! Toy Story 3 Confirmed for 2009!! Fully-fianced PIXAR film!! It's being written by the "Little Miss Sunshine" guy!! Can you believe it? Pixar won!<br> <br> Check it out!! http://www.popzart.com/viewtopic.php?topic=477
Feb. 9, 2007, 12:36 a.m. CST
HDM brings it out in me. Moriarty -- good points but you're missing the most important point of all by referencing Unfortunate Events and its failure to connect -- people love the irreverence and wit of Snicket and his style - but no one "loves" the characters with the heart - they love them with the mind. It's all very cold. There's not a lot of human connection going on, but that's fine. HDM is DEEP and connects right to the heart in so many ways. (which does make it harder to adapt) While reading HDM series I felt I would kill for Lyra. I was a weeping sally at the end of the third book. I recommended it to like-minded friends and know one guy who didn't leave his room for 2 weeks after the third book from sheer despair. Lyra's character and relationships remind me of Nausicaa in that way and that manga and film have me rooting so hardcore for the protagonists that it's tough not to love the thing as a whole. There are some complexities and literate explanations that may bamboozle many - but it's got such HEART and even the dumbest fucks have one of those (well, most). And don't forget the FLAT-OUT-COMMERCIAL concept of kids having their own connecting pet to talk to and hang out with. That concept alone could rake in every movie-going kid alive. Kids love fantasy done right. Many kids and dummies did not understand LOTR but they liked the world and HDM's world is fantastic if just for the Daemons alone. Polar bears are another huge plus and so's a great villain. Kidman is cold as hell so she'll probably be perfectly despicable as Coulter. I recommend this book to people looking for something to like, and like my other recommend since the late 80's, the Ender's Game series, I've never heard a negative reaction. It's because, like Ender, the protagonist is someone you root for in the biggest way and the writing is detailed and intelligent. Problem comes when the filmmakers have to literally create magic and get those character connections right. Lets hope Iorek is who he needs to be. I like the sound of the talent in Lyra. She's the key. Thanks for the update - and stop being so negative!!! New Line - I personally hope you kill with this one. Fingers fucking crossed.
Feb. 9, 2007, 12:48 a.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
Doubt the post is serious. Usually the !!!s give them away, but in particular the "where the hell is our chance to visit the sets?" got me laughing - but wouldn't worry Moriarty, I think your job is safe. ;)
Feb. 9, 2007, 2:27 a.m. CST
So that's what we have to worry about, some crazy American bible belt fundamentalists getting all worked up about this movie? Well, only in America, I'm sure the rest of the world will be laughing their collective asses off as usual when hearing that particular voice of retarded America over the airwaves. The reason the movie will make a loss is that indeed New Line is making the grave mistake that the fanbase of these books is similar to that of Lord of the Rings. They will find out they're in error and very likely either subsequently not adapt book 2 and 3, seriously cut down on the repsective budgets for these movies or worse put in even more money and lose even more money. I believe the movie will be reasonably succesfull if not way not as much as New Line is hoping for.
Feb. 9, 2007, 10:42 a.m. CST
are the glue that holds the US together don't you know? Without their concerted efforts and constant vigilance against the hordes of evil athiests, unbelievers, and homosexuals, the country would surely go into some sort of anarchic maelstrom from which something like, I dunno, ....paradise might arise?
Feb. 10, 2007, 9:29 p.m. CST
The spine of the story is direction, and where she's heading. What does she have to go through to get where she's going? What does she have to leave behind? Latch onto that, and you've got both movie and trailer.
Feb. 11, 2007, 5:34 p.m. CST
This now has me salivating, and I've never read the books! Intelligent fantasy on film? Dare we hope for so much? And how many tickets will I need to buy to get the sequels made?
Feb. 14, 2007, 4:08 a.m. CST
by Flame of the West
Given the appalling treatment of PJ by New Line, I hope this project flops. Pullman is in any event the anti-christ to Tolkien fans given his perverse views on the Professor. I hope this New Line extravaganza busts both them and New Line.
Feb. 16, 2007, 5:55 a.m. CST
Who cares whether there's an audience...this seems like a ballsy project, and thats a good thing. Lets support this movie, the anti-Narnia aspect alone sounds fascinating. I'm there (and now I want to read the books)!