Cool News
Brief "Crusade" correction & a little more from JMS
Glen here...
...with a brief adjustment to (and elaboration regarding) my previous two Crusade
reports (report number one available by HREF="http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=3129">clicking here, report #2
available by clicking
here.
In both reports, I alluded to the actors on Crusade having been "released from their
contracts." This is a slippery issue, and one that should be clarified herein - as the sweeping
statement that the actors have been "released from their contracts" is not entirely accurate.
Here's where their situation stands: the actors on Crusade are not expected to hang
around any longer. They are free to go off and do whatever they want to do. TECHNICALLY,
however, they are still "under contract" to Crusade until sometime mid-summerish.
This scenario translates to: "ACTOR X" is free to take a role in another project, based on the
fact that Crusade is no longer in active production, and is not presumed to be so anytime in
the foreseeable future. HOWEVER: should some miracle fall upon the series...should
Crusade somehow find absolution and be able to move forward with producing new
episodes...said actor's primary responsibility (and obligation) is to Crusade, as it came first -
and as their contract is still active until sometime in July, I believe.
After mid-July, the actors' contracts would have to be renewed or re-negotiated to secure their involvement.
So, the cast of the series will not been officially or formally "released" from their
contractual obligations to Crusade until this summer. But they are able to go to
work on anything they want to work on. None the less, they can still be drafted into duties on
Crusade should the series somehow be re-activated before their contracts lapse. In many ways this is hair splitting,
semantics, and minutia - but it is an important element in this story for the time being, and one I
wanted to make as clear as possible. Don't read too much into this, I'm not attempting to imply
anything cosmic by clarifying this. But I did want to correct a fact that was accidentally
misrepresented.
I will adjust the wording of the previous articles to be more pointedly representative of the
actor's actual disposition at this time. Sorry for any confusion, this is sometimes confusing
stuff that even actors themselves don't always understand. As one Crusade alumni pointed
out: "It is confusing - that's why they have agents!"
Finally, I thought I'd post another message from Crusade creator J. Michael
Straczynski. Doesn't say much more than the message posted in HREF="http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=3130">Coaxial's previous report,
but there are a few more details to be found (the disposition of the series' sets, for example).
Here's what he said:
JMS wrote:
Well, we took our best shot. Sometimes it works, sometimes it
don't.
The SciFi Channel programming guys wanted the show; they wanted it a
lot. They crunched numbers for almost two weeks trying to make it work.
But at the end of the day, the problem was that they had already allocated
or spent their budget for the year, and couldn't come up with the huge
chunk of change necessary to get an entire season. Had this come up prior
to January 1st, things would almost certainly have gone differently. But
they have their budget, as we have ours, and it was already allocated.
So TNT will now air the full 13 produced, and that's the end of it
for now. I say for now because WB has told us to fold and hold all the
sets, rather than scrap them, because they believe strongly in the show,
and feel that when the ratings come in we may well be able to pick up a
second season. We'll see.
Meanwhile, I'm taking the day off, and deciding which of a number
of offers from networks and studios, sitting on my desk since B5
finished, to pick up. I had declined to go that route so I could do
Crusade and keep playing in this universe, but absent that, there's no
reason not to go back to the networks and apply there some of what we've
been able to do in B5 and Crusade.
My thanks to all those who wrote, and called, and emailed, and lent
their support to the process. And I think that when you see the show,
you'll be quite pleased by what we did. We're all very proud of it.
jms
Glen
Or call:
(512) 347-1992
Mail can be sent to:
Glen Oliver
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
USA
-
+ Expand All
-
Any idea WHEN TNT will air the 12 episodes already shot? If they come out in the fall, how are they going to get the actors back? Any case, this incredibly SUCKS! Here's hoping that they show the eps. soon and that they beat EVERYTHING Tnt shows!
-
Glen here...sometimes during the first two weeks in June
TNT should begin showing the disenfranchised CRUSADE episodes.**Glen** -
First talkback, lucky me. That said, this is my first posting here--and it seems I'm not the first to be drawn into this forum due to the Crusade Crisis.
It seems our responsibility--B5 fans anyway--is to support the hell out of the 13 episodes we are getting and hope for the best. If it doesn't work out, well, at least we got that much.
I thank TNT for giving me the opportunity to view B5 in its entirety, for the movies, and for the 5th season--even if it wasn't quite what most of us hoped for.
I don't know what else there is to say; I'm disappointed, but at least we have those 13 shows and some small bit of hope.
Oh, and just to get the obligatory Star Trek v. B5 ball rolling , let us pause and count our blessings.
We still have Voyager--sloppy writing, slipshod continuity, uncompelling characters, "top-heavy 7," as someone on here referred to her, and all.
Who says quality sci-fi can't make it on televion?
Voyager loyalists, lock phasers and arm photon torpedoes. -
Just think, If all those TNT memo rumours had panned out into something really nasty JMS might have been able to negotiate with the Sci-Fi Channel before January 1st when their budget was set in stone and we would all be anxiously awaiting the start of Crusade on the Sci-Fi channel this summer. As bad as that situation looked a few months ago it could have been a blessing in disguise. All I can say is that TNT can kiss my ass. We should all refuse to watch anything on that fucking channel (after Crusade of course). Lets see if they like losing the veiwership of all the millions of B5 fans! I know that by no watching TNT I wouldn't be missing anything important enough to compromise my beliefs. Yes let us all start a TNT boycott!!!
-
I agree that it would be pointless to pursue any more email campaigning to the Sci-fi channel beggin them to pick up Crusade this year. However, what about next year? If one of the biggest problems was that the budget was finalized January 1st, why not begin a writing campaign asking the Sci-fi channel to consider picking Crusade up next year for a season 2? In many respects, it could be a win-win proposition for the Sci-Fi Channel. They will be able to see the ratings for the first 13 episodes, and if they are as strong as we all think they are going to be, I would think they would have added incentive to pick up the show. Yes, it would mean that there would be a longer break than desired between the first and second seasons, but isn't this something similar to what TNT did when it finally picked up B5 from the network morass it had been in during the initial seasons? Let's get the folk at Sci-fi thinking about this possibility NOW, so that there could be as smooth as possible a network move for the second season.
I'm not planning on sending flowers to Crusade's funeral just yet. Resurrection is not impossible. We just need a good Lorien. :-) -
JMS mentioned that 'TNT still believes strongly in the show'??? Then why is all this happening? If NBC believes strongly in 'ER', does that mean they halt production mid-season and try to sell it to the 'WB'??? I don't think so. Listen, I'm not gonna write any dirty letters to anyone, especially Warner Bros....because I want Babylon 5 on DVD. All the episodes baby! That's what we need to focus on!
CFG!
-
What can I say? Devastated is the only word I can use to describe how I'm feeling now. It's hard knowing that despite all the best efforts of all the production staff and of course all the B5 fans, it doesn't appear that THIS story will get the chance to tell itself.Given that so many people (myself included) have said what a difference Babylon 5 made to them personally, one cannot help but wonder what we're going to be missing. Let's hope that some major miracle does manage to manifest itself. Faith, after all, manages
-
If Warner Brothers has faith in the show, chances are it will run for another season once everyone (including the networks) gets their Sh*t together!
-
Well, I'm not completely devastated. We still have over half a season of Crusade to watch, digest, analyze, and dissect. I trust the folks at the SciFi channel who have been pleased with what they have seen. NOTE: my understanding of JMS
-
Maybe the WB will pick up Crusade as a summer series? Hyperion Bay is dead and without their load of new 'teen oriented shows', maybe there's a timeslot for it somewhere...
-
Crusade is probably dead. However much I hate to see the trkkies win, its probably true, and since I never wanted b5 to become a franshcise, its probably for the best. Someone else said why the trekkies and b5 fans hate each other. I agree with you 100%, on all your points. And bablyon 5's legacy is very important. At one time star trek did have a starnglehold on the science fiction market. It partially desvered it, with how good next generation was. The golden age of star trek. Then, with DS9, we started going downhill. Voyager, don't even get me started. Then, B5 arrived and everything changed. A show that could finally beat trek, where so many had tried and failed, to die a quick death at the hands of the trekkies. Despite the best efforts of the trekkies, B5 completed its five year mission, unlike the orginal star trek series. And know, though it may be gone, its legacy will remain. That you can beat star trek. That you can do something new and different in science fiction TV. Trekkies, you can belive you have won all you want, you have really lost. You failed to stop B5, and the floodgates have opened. More will follow, and star trek will finally be put to rest. Goodbye.
-
Well, despite JMS' words that we should "thank" Sci-Fi for their help, I will complain to them anyway. Babylon/Crusade was a quality show that would have drawn me to their channel... but they left it slip by. Although they could not afford to expend the money in 1998, the least they could have done was to promise to fit Crusade into their 1999 Budget. With zero committment to Crusade, Sci-Fi now has virtually
nothing worth watching and as such, I will be cancelling my
subscription. :( http://www.geocities.com/~videonovels
-
How about a write in campaign to TNT? They supported the show at one time, so if they see lots of support for the show, they might be willing to give it another chance.
Does anyone know who to write to at TNT? -
I gather that the biggest problem is with finding the money (as usual). And while I do not know how many fans there are out there, I do know that I would be preapared to pay the price of a recorded video tape or two per year to have B5 continued. So, since donations are too tricky (legally, etc), perhaps releasing some kind of shares in Crusade could raise enough money to make the show! Do Crusade as some
kind of Co-Operative, some special rules where you know you are not going to get a lot of (if any) return from your investment directly, but where you are getting something you want, and thus you pay for it. And just maybe Crusade could make enough money to keep funding itself, so no ongoing contributions would be necessary. I have no idea who owns Crusade right now, and whether anything like this is legally
possible in this case, or even whether enough people could be found who would invest say $50 in the show. Call me crazy, but I guess it is the old rule that if you want something done, YOU HAVE TO DO IT YOURSELF! So, how many of you would be willing to join a
Crusade Co-op?! And once the show is made, we can worry about showing it somewhere :)
P.S. I guess that if Crusade could make per season at least the amount of money that it cost to produce, when the show wraps up and the money are no longer needed for it, whoever buys those co-op shares could get them refunded (maybe even with some profit in it).
-
Has anyone started a letter writting campain to the WB network? Maybe they would pick it up? They are always looking for new shows and since they are in the same company there may not be as much red tape to wade though. I only hope that this show gets picked up. I liked what I saw in "A Call to Arms". This show has given us a more realistic veiw of the future and I think that some one else has to see this show like we do, the last best hope for Sci-Fi.
Have a nice day!
Bob the Alien -
Anyone blaming the so called death of Crusade on "Trekkies" sounds like some no nothing kid. In no way did any so called Trekkies have anything to do with this problem. In fact I bet 90% or more of B5's viewers also watch Star Trek.
I am sure anyone who loves outerspace theme SF follows both shows. -
Another first post (and probably last), so please bear with the unseemly length.
I'll begin with previously unvoiced 'thank yous' to Steven at the Lurker's Guide (www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html) and Glen at Coaxial News for their tireless efforts that kept us up to date during the B5 run. I often got notice of schedule changes and production updates
through these sources long before the inconsistent publicity departments at PTEN and TNT got around to notifying the public. Loud applause, of course, for JMS, whose words and vision have helped to enliven and enrich the SF world.
Nothing I have to say will particularly enliven or enrich the outpouring of sorrow over the fate of CRUSADE. I am not, in any case, very big on wakes. On the other hand, I am very big on action as opposed to words as a vehicle for expressing displeasure with the powers that be. To that end, I want to share with you what our family plans to do over the
coming months. Our cable operator (TCI San Jose) maintains two separate cable feeds: the first is a basic system carrying major broadcast networks and local stations; the second is a collection of cable-only networks (including the Sci-Fi channel and TNT) oxymoronically named 'expanded basic'. We are required to pay an additional 'expanded' fee if we wish to receive this second feed. I have notified the Sci-Fi channel (and will notify TNT shortly) that the *sole* reason we gave in to this extortionate arrangement and began to pay for the expanded service was to receive TNT, so that we could watch B5 and CRUSADE. After the final episode of CRUSADE airs, we will return to basic cable
only, with written notice to TCI San Jose explaining in detail the
reason for our choice. We believe this is the best, most effective way available to express disapproval with cable programming, and urge all other fans to take steps as close to these as your cable/satellite
system will permit. Because the Sci-Fi channel and TNT are cable and satellite channels only, they are much more susceptible to such tactics than are broadcast networks, as it has a *measurable and demonstrable* effect on the network bottom-line.
I agree with JMS that there are no bad guys here, and that the decisions made by the networks have been for financial reasons. I ask all of you to remember this, and learn from the object lesson of Star Trek. ST-TNG got its chance not because of heartfelt outpourings of love, but because
Star Trek - The Motion Picture proved that any ST project (even one as demonstrably bad as that movie clearly was) amounted to having a license to print money. Unless each and every fan of B5 begins voting with their wallet, and making that fact known to the powers that be, the all-important financial picture will not change.
-
I'd just like to add to the voices of hope on this subject. It does look pretty grim for Crusade, but they are going to air those 13 episodes, and it's just this simple: if those 13 shows pull good numbers, the show *will* get made, somehow, someday, by someone. No matter how thick TV execs are, they do pay attention to the ratings. The best thing we could all do for Crusade is... watch it.
-
All I know is I'm gonna pay the people at work who have ratings boxes in their homes to watch this show. I know wuite a few people that will be watching, but TNT will never know. I suggest anybody out there who know of anybody with ratings boxes to talk them into tuning into Crusade. Threaten them if you have to. Take their children for ransom; no, better yet, Grandma. Yes, with the kids screaming for Grandma's return, they will have to comply. "Watch Crusade or Granny's gonna be 'Sleeping in Light'". Desperate times call for desperate measures.
-
Things for Crusade may now look a little bleak, but don't forget the other major Sci-Fi factor in all this: STAR WARS. Once the new movie comes out, the entertainment industry will be wanting to cash in on the new interest in Sci-Fi caused by Star Wars phenomenon. Crusade will become a hot commodity not only because it already has an established fan base, but it might actually be better than Star Wars (Of course I think it will be better since Babylon 5 has supplanted Star Wars as my favorite science fiction series, but that's just my opinion). Remember how many Titanic shows were created to cash in on the hysteria caused by the motion picture. One network even produced a clone movie of the damn thing.
Have faith!
P.S. Go out and buy the Babylon 5 videos. This will also help Warner Bros. choose to continue supporting the new show when they know they can earn more money from the video market with this product. -
This would be an exceptionally good time to write to both TNT and the Sci-Fi Channel.
To TNT to to THANK them for picking up B5 in its time of need, and to PERSUADE them to pick up the rest of the Crusade series.
To Sci-Fi to THANK them for trying their best to find a way to pick up Season 1 of Crusade, and the PERSUADE them to make a commitment, as soon as possible (i.e. while the actors are still under contract!) to pick up the rest of the series.
If *everyone* were to send *one* letter a week to *both* addresses, I bet someone will find a way...
Here are the addresses:
Programing Director
TNT
1050 Techwood Drive, N.W.
Atlanta, GA 30318
and
Ms. Bonnie Hammer,
Senior Vice President of Programming
Sci-Fi Channel
1230 Avenue of the Americas, F115
New York, NY 10020-1513
PLEASE, do not spam JMS's mailboxes with messages. Post to the message boards to let him know that we
do not want him to give in! I also suggest that this "crusade" be posted to all message boards. If you visit a
board and you dont see it, POST IT!
Remember folks, although email might be our prefered method of communication, networks put much more credence in messages delivered through the postal service and are required by federal law to store them.
Among the things those of you who can't think of what to write might want to mention:
1) Crusade has an already established fan base as it's a spin-off of the long running hit television series, Babylon 5, so ratings would be strong from day one.
2) A recent Babylon 5 movie ("A Call to Arms") aired on TNT drew better than expected ratings despite minimal promotion. (In fact, it outperformed another movie on TNT which was heavily promoted, around the same week)
3) The B5/Crusade fan base would almost certainly immediately start a campaign to get their cable companies to pick up the Scifi Channel (thus increasing distributorship) if the channel picks up Crusade
3) Babylon 5 has won critical acclaim and many people consider it the greatest genre series of all time.
4) Crusade stars Gary Cole, the lead actor in American Gothic.
Fans of that series that might not have otherwise watched Crusade may well jump on board.
5) Thirteen episodes have already been produced and presumably paid for by TNT so a network might be able to pick up those episodes "on the cheap" if they agreed to produce the rest of the season.
Finally, no matter what happens, THANK YOU JMS for all that you've gone through to give us this incredible universe.
Happy writing!
-
Fear not JMS fans though we many have to wait for Crusade till some time this summer. Jms has a new comicbook series coming out this month called RISING STARS. The 24 issue series stars 113 children who recieve super powers from an alien force. Ever character has their own story arc so expect there to be other series based on these charcters. And some where down the road JMS wants to make a TV series out of this book.
-
I've been watching all of the talk back and forth about B5 vs. Star Trek vs. Star Wars vs Crusade vs whatever, and I feel like G'Kar must have when Narn was freed.
Haven't we learned anything?!?!?
If you don't remember, read this:
"The universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice.
The language is not Narn or Human or Centauri or Gaim or Minbari.
It speaks in the language of hope.
It speaks in the language of trust.
It speaks in the language of strength and the language of compassion.
It is the language of the heart and the language of the soul.
But always it is the same voice.
It is the voice of our ancestors speaking through us and the voice of our inheritors waiting to be born.
The small, still voice that says: We are one.
No matter the blood,
No matter the skin,
No matter the world,
No matter the star.
We are one.
No matter the pain,
No matter the darkness,
No matter the loss,
No matter the fear.
We are one.
Here, gathered together in common cause, we begin to realize this singular truth and this singular rule that we must be kind to one another.
Because each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us.
We are the voice of the universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light our way to a better future.
We are one.
We are one.
-G'Kar, the Preamble to the Alliance Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals"
Think about it. -
As bad as the news is about Crusade not being picked up by the Sci-Fi Channel, us fans still have a slim opportunity to save the show since it won't air until June, but it requires us to organize our resources and to be focused on our tactics to save the show. Right now, we have about three months to attract new potential viewers to the show and to carefully lobby TNT to renew the series for a second season. Before I detail the methodology for saving the show, I want to explain why we need to ultimately target TNT to show the series, rather than have it air elsewhere. Frankly, despite whatever anger we have towards it for its treatment of Crusade, TNT is the best chance to air the show, since it has the rights to the first season of it, and since it has suggested that it may well support a second season depending upon ratings. No other possible outlet--the WB, Sci-Fi, FX--is even willing to make that commitment. If we do not actively, rationally target TNT to air the series, then we'll be letting our hatred get the better of us.
Now, for the methodology. Each fan of the show needs to do three immediate tasks. First, they need to recruit at least 5 new potential viewers to the show from outside of science fiction fandom. The best way to do this is to encourage them to watch B-5 on TNT so they have some idea of the quality that they can expect from Crusade. In doing so, exeperienced fans need to guide newcomers to episodes which are excellent introductions to the series, such as the pilot movie, or "In The Beginning" or "And Now for a Word," or " A View from the Gallery." If you have tapes, lend them out to hook people. Second, we need to build bridges with other science fiction fans who don't watch the show. The best argument to put forth to these experienced science fiction buffs who have ignored B-5 and would have done the same for Crusade is that supporting this show supports the possiblity of more future sci-fi shows on TV. How? Ask then this: If a science fiction show which has a built-in fan base,and has thirteen completed episodes already paid for (and produced under budget!) and ready to air, and it still can't find a network to fully commit to it, how likely is any new science fiction project to have a chance to air at all? I think the answer is "nill." Since science fiction shows are generally grouped together by programmers, then the success of one show helps the possibility of success for others in that programmers may well be willing to seriously airing them. And if Crusade fails, that leaves only one science fiction show set in outer space on TV for the forseeable future. How many such shows, in the past, have actually completed their run? Only three: Next Generation, DS9 (ending this year) and B-5. Compare that to the number of successful cop or doctor shows. Hopefully, such arguments can enable other science fiction fans to understand the importance of supporting Crusade. Bring this topic up in the apporperate forums without insulting other sci-fi shows; this isn't about B-5 vs. Star Trek, its about saving one sci-fi series. Third, fans need to step of a letter writing campaign, using both e-mail and standard post, to let TNT and WB how much we want to see the show. Snail mail is useful in that you can use it to send petitions which you can pass around at your place of work or your school to get additional support for the series. Each fan needs to be thoughtful and considerate in the letters sent to both companies, since insulting them isn't going to gain us their support. As it is, both companies likely know how outraged the fan base is. If they right off the angry fans as viewers they will never be able to attact back, then letters of rage will set back our goal. There is time to take punitive action, if called for, when we hear whether anyone will support a second season.
Finally, a couple more suggestions for saving the show,which require support in a different sense. We need a base of opperations from which we can notify fellow fans of support efforts and of the latest news. Ideally, a web-site would be a good place to do this due to easy, fast access and the ablilty to keep up with fast-breaking news. It would be nice if either the Lurker's Guide or a section of Ain't It Cool News could be that base of opperations, but that would have to be the decision of the people who run these sites. If anyone else can offer a web site for use, then we should consider it. However, all fans need a single base of operations to coordinate our efforts. Secondly, fans need to bring Crusade to the attention of other influencial people or groups who can offer support, such as the Viewers for Quality TV, or the local TV critics of our newspapers and TV stations. We should be able to contact these people through the mail to inform them of the campaign to save Crusade.
We have an opportunity to save the series, let's not waste it on wishful thinking or finger-pointing.
Take care, Aaron Malchow
-
As bad as the news is about Crusade not being picked up by the Sci-Fi Channel, us fans still have a slim opportunity to save the show since it won't air until June, but it requires us to organize our resources and to be focused on our tactics to save the show. Right now, we have about three months to attract new potential viewers to the show and to carefully lobby TNT to renew the series for a second season. Before I detail the methodology for saving the show, I want to explain why we need to ultimately target TNT to show the series, rather than have it air elsewhere. Frankly, despite whatever anger we have towards it for its treatment of Crusade, TNT is the best chance to air the show, since it has the rights to the first season of it, and since it has suggested that it may well support a second season depending upon ratings. No other possible outlet--the WB, Sci-Fi, FX--is even willing to make that commitment. If we do not actively, rationally target TNT to air the series, then we'll be letting our hatred get the better of us.
Now, for the methodology. Each fan of the show needs to do three immediate tasks. First, they need to recruit at least 5 new potential viewers to the show from outside of science fiction fandom. The best way to do this is to encourage them to watch B-5 on TNT so they have some idea of the quality that they can expect from Crusade. In doing so, exeperienced fans need to guide newcomers to episodes which are excellent introductions to the series, such as the pilot movie, or "In The Beginning" or "And Now for a Word," or " A View from the Gallery." If you have tapes, lend them out to hook people. Second, we need to build bridges with other science fiction fans who don't watch the show. The best argument to put forth to these experienced science fiction buffs who have ignored B-5 and would have done the same for Crusade is that supporting this show supports the possiblity of more future sci-fi shows on TV. How? Ask then this: If a science fiction show which has a built-in fan base,and has thirteen completed episodes already paid for (and produced under budget!) and ready to air, and it still can't find a network to fully commit to it, how likely is any new science fiction project to have a chance to air at all? I think the answer is "nill." Since science fiction shows are generally grouped together by programmers, then the success of one show helps the possibility of success for others in that programmers may well be willing to seriously airing them. And if Crusade fails, that leaves only one science fiction show set in outer space on TV for the forseeable future. How many such shows, in the past, have actually completed their run? Only three: Next Generation, DS9 (ending this year) and B-5. Compare that to the number of successful cop or doctor shows. Hopefully, such arguments can enable other science fiction fans to understand the importance of supporting Crusade. Bring this topic up in the apporperate forums without insulting other sci-fi shows; this isn't about B-5 vs. Star Trek, its about saving one sci-fi series. Third, fans need to step of a letter writing campaign, using both e-mail and standard post, to let TNT and WB how much we want to see the show. Snail mail is useful in that you can use it to send petitions which you can pass around at your place of work or your school to get additional support for the series. Each fan needs to be thoughtful and considerate in the letters sent to both companies, since insulting them isn't going to gain us their support. As it is, both companies likely know how outraged the fan base is. If they right off the angry fans as viewers they will never be able to attact back, then letters of rage will set back our goal. There is time to take punitive action, if called for, when we hear whether anyone will support a second season.
Finally, a couple more suggestions for saving the show,which require support in a different sense. We need a base of opperations from which we can notify fellow fans of support efforts and of the latest news. Ideally, a web-site would be a good place to do this due to easy, fast access and the ablilty to keep up with fast-breaking news. It would be nice if either the Lurker's Guide or a section of Ain't It Cool News could be that base of opperations, but that would have to be the decision of the people who run these sites. If anyone else can offer a web site for use, then we should consider it. However, all fans need a single base of operations to coordinate our efforts. Secondly, fans need to bring Crusade to the attention of other influencial people or groups who can offer support, such as the Viewers for Quality TV, or the local TV critics of our newspapers and TV stations. We should be able to contact these people through the mail to inform them of the campaign to save Crusade.
We have an opportunity to save the series, let's not waste it on wishful thinking or finger-pointing.
Take care, Aaron Malchow
-
OK folks, here's what we need to do. . .
1) Watch the 13 episodes of Crusade on TNT and give it real good ratings. Hell make it MONSTER ratings.
then
2) Turn around and ask the nice people at Sci-Fi that maybe they start considering the series for the year 2000. That programming money hasn't been allocated yet. (And I hear that this will be Sliders last year, so there's a chunk of change right there.)
Granted this will mean a BITCH of a wait between Seasons 1 & 2, but hopefully, if Sci-Fi acts quick enough, all the actors can be retained on contract before the expiration dates hit in mid-July. Even if production weren't to begin until Fall of `99, they would still have time to go out and work other shows (guest shots, do a movie, whathave you. . .) until then.
Anyone have a reason why this wouldn't be the logical way to go? -
Actually, kd8on, I do watch star trek. I do watch DS9, Voyager is crap and despite slight improbements, its never going to measure up to DS9. Next generation is still the best trek sereis in my opinon. I consider myself a trekker, in that I used to enjoy trek, along with other shows. Trekkies are the trek fanatics and geeks who watch trek, only trek and consider everything else crap. All franshcies have this geek subculture, but star trek is bigger and one of the reasons it kept its monoply for so many years. Thats one of the main reasons I don't want to see B5 become a franshice, because it will become the next trek ineviteblity, in that it will have a starnglehold and that it will become a cash cow and if JMS passes away, will, that will be it. I just think that trek doesn't even have to die, it just needs to step aside and let other scifi thourgh. But to survive its going to need major improvements. By the way, I know the trekkies weren't responalsible for the crusade death, but their laughing there ass off anyway. And they were reasonabile for the attempted death of B5.
-
OK, so Sci-Fi couldnt come up with the readdies. So why not look at the International Market - and sell it there too? The Germans and English are clamouring for B5 and it's a huge hit in those countries. Why not sell internationally? Before you say "It wont work"...Highlander:The series, Lexx and Invasion:Earth all did it exactly that way.
That way,Sci-Fi could afford to make B5 while selling it abroad too.
Lets look at the UK as an example. Sky One and Channel 4 would almost certainly stump up some cash - and defenitly the UK Sci-FI channel too.
Sky One has already layed down several million on new series, some with huge budgets by UK standards (ABut -
hey, Cilghal is right, there wasent enough money to put it in this years linup, but why not add it into next years budget? theres no prolblem waiting a year if it means the show will go on, right?
-
I'm all for the suggestions/hope, etc. to see Sci Fi (or even the bastards at TNT) pick up a second season of the show, but there is one thing to consider. If the station doesn't decide to pick it up before the actor's contracts officially expire in June or July, there could be a serious problem. Those actors might find other series work, or be so upset by the whole previous ordeal they might not choose to be in the next season. So suddenly you'd have Crusade season 2 with an almost entirely new cast... :P That would not be good...
-
I'm amased that so many people participate in the B5 vs Star Trek quarrel.In my opinion,there is a fundamental difference in contexts of the two shows that leaves enough breathing space for them to co-exist and be equally liked by a sci-fi fan.Babylon 5 is about the future we most certainly will get if mankind does not change it's attitudes - a future where greed,bigotry and indifference continuously destroy hopes for peace of any kind.Star Trek,despite all that's been done to it ,continues to describe a future we can build if we begin to learn from our mistakes.Both shows had their triumphs and nadirs but both are quality TV or there wouldn't be so much feedback about them.Trek and B5 create two different and fascinating visions of the future and this could only be welcomed by any sci fi fan.
As a fan of both shows I hate to see Crusade go but I also believe in Voyager improving,especially after DS9 finishes - it just has to improve and I think it will. -
I rarely ever post anything anywhere, but you weenie-boys are starting to piss me off. I actually have been watching TV Science Fiction since Twilight Zone and Outer Limits were in their first runs. I started watching Star Trek when it was on NBC in 1966. To make the point, I know a little bit about what's good and what isn't. This whole supposed feud between Trekkers and B5 fans is stupid. Other than taking place on a space station they have very little in common. Although, I do think the guys at DS9 must have been paying attention to what JMS was doing.
Star Trek has almost always been an anthology show. The characters wake up in a new universe every episode. Recent happenings on Voyager prove this point. DS9 is the only recent Trek to break the mold. This is hands down the best Trek since the original because Ira Steven Behr has divorced it from the rest of the Trek Universe except TOS. But, it suffers the same fate as B5. People watch two episodes can't figure out what's going on and immediately write the show off as garbage.
I'll get off the rant now before I really get going and make my point. Crusade was looking to be a great show and I was awe struck when I got the word yesterday about the cancellation. But, what I seem to understand and most of you don't, is that studios make TV shows and movies to make money. The reason Star Trek TOS got cancelled 3 times was because Paramount and NBC were losing money on it. If Warner finds a way to sell Crusade to a venue that will make everyone money, it will be renewed. If not it's gone and we will have to cherish the few episodes we do get.
I can't understand why so called Trekkers get so upset. I thought they all wanted to live in Gene's Utopian world where there is no conflict. -
First, I'd like to correct some details in the earlier "Animosity" post. Keep in mind that this is stuff I've picked up over the course of the years from the writers, books, the 'Net, and other sources, most of which are friendly to Trek, and my memories may not always been completely accurate.
1) Brandon Tartikoff was the one who approached Berman & Piller about creating a new syndicated show. Tartikoff, according to what I've heard, _was not with Paramount_ when JMS pitched B5 to them.
2) Tartikoff only wanted a syndicated series that could be hyped as "by the people who brought you _Star Trek: The Next Generation_". It was Berman and Piller's idea to make it a _Star Trek_ series.
3) The original plan was to place the show on Bajor itself; it was moved to a space station when it was decided that a planet-based show would be too expensive.
4) Berman and Piller developed the show alone. This is relevant because JMS himself is reported to have stated that he considers the two of them honorable men, and feels that any intentional similarities to B5 are the result of executive interferance. Robert Hewitt Wolfe, a staff writer on the series from almost the beginning up until the end of season 5, has stated that there was almost no such interference.
Let's lay this myth to rest, OK, friends?
Moving on, I have to say I'm disappointed with this news, although not as much as some. I've enjoyed B5, although I consider myself only a little more than a casual fan. Despite problems with "A Call to Arms", I was looking forward to _Crusade_, which looked to have an intriguing premise and great potential. I have to say, I'm sorry to see it go like this. The 13 episodes should be interesting, and maybe it will be picked up for a second season. We shall see. -
I'm not sure if people are in such a panic that they aren't reading the article or not, but come on people think. Yes it would be great to save Crusade, but I don't think it will happen. First, TNT has no faith in Crusade and will probably air it at some horrible time slot. If contracts are up in July, the actors, crew, and other involved aren't goint to sit around waiting for a hopeful pick up by Sci Fi channel.But I think there's three things we got going for us. 1: Star Wars and the aforementioned interest it will bring in Scifi shows. 2: the fact that we'll at least see the 13 eps. 3: that the sets were not detroyed, but put away.
-
To berserker, it actually got a 2.8 if you consider 100% coverage and a 2.1 for TNT's 74%
-
...or so I hear people say. I don't know since I no longer watch. After 4 years of crap, I decided to remove Voyager from my viewing schedule. Should have done it sooner. Actually, I did watch that Borg "movie" because of the hype... could barely stay awake. So I don't buy the "it improved" nonsense. Voyager is crap and probably always will be. 'Tis sad. -A TOS, TNG, DS9(upto Suckrifice of Angels) and B5 Fan
-
something that was forgoten to mention, the Fan Mail support for Crusade to be picked up may be over, but now we should focus our efforts twoards Fan Mail asking for TNT to give a respectable time slot for Crusade so at least it has a real chance of getting ratings that might help it get that second season. some good Advertising might help too....
-
If TNT has canceled Crusade, why do they still say they're supporting it on the B5 Webpage?
-
In regards to this ST bashing in the face of the B5 spinoff cancellation,I say stop bitching about ST when you people(You know who you are) don't even watch Voyager or DS9 to make an intelligent statement about it. The posting I just read about how this infantile feud started needs some clearing up. First of all Michael Pillar was NEVER given a outline of B5, that's something that would be known for sure and could be proven and I've haven't heard word one about him ever seeing it. If he was ever shown such a thing JMS would have and could have had a legal claim against DS9. And in fact JMS has never sued though I think at some point he may have considered it, Though if he had any kind of prove what so ever he would have brought it forward. He hasn't, He won't this claim has been going on for a long time all for the sake of petty bickering. All people have to do is look at the two shows and the different stories they told and how there approaches to stories were totaly going in opposite directions to see how different they are. To keep claiming this plagarism crap is just an embrassment. I liked B5 and I liked comparing it to TNG and DS9. That said, I have to admit that though I'm sorry that
JMS and his show won't get a fair shot I'm not that sorry. I'll take comfort in the improved Voyager and the almost always stellar DS9.
If you guys want an intriguing, mysterous, and thrilling sci-fi series that's actually airing I suggest you try Gene Roddenberry's
Earth's Final Conflict it's upsurps the claim made about ST in that things change on that show all the time. Like killing off there main character at the end of the first season just for starters. Gave it a try you'll be glad you did;) -
I'm a Canuck, and am somewhat unawhere of much of the network politics that goes on Stateside, so if this is a somewhat laughable suggestion, please excuse me. Why can't WB air Crusade. From the things I've heard about the quality of shows aired on that network, it could certainly use a great show with a built in fan following. WB obviously has already sunk a great deal of money into Crusade, and I fail to see why they would not want to get a further return on their investment, while potentially boosted their ratings with something besides Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
-
The campaign has already begun!
Please follow this link, and check out the NEWS page!
Crusade - The Quest for Life http://babylon5.acmecity.com/lurker/2/crusade.htm
There is also a mailing list on the news page which will become the 'heart" of the campaign. Please feel free to join us!
Post this message to your newsgroups, message boards and favorite websites (if you can talk the webmasters into it).
You may also pick up a free B5 screen saver on the Links page.
Thanks!
Pamela Smith - The Pebbles are Voting -
Has anyone noticed the TNT's official Babylon 5 site has absolutely no mention of anything thats going on? They're even updating the site every day for the episodes and posting interviews etc...like nothing is wrong???
-
See, I *told* you guys that hope could be killed...
-
In response to the Trekkies concerning the B5 Vs Trek debate.
This problem arises mainly when Trekkies like Berserker and a few others whose names escape me, slagged off Crusade before it had even aired. It's these rabid sort of anti-B5 comments that will turn myself and others into "rabid B5 fans" and I for one stick by every single word I've ever posted regarding these insane comments from Berserker.
His personal attack on JMS IS DISGRACEFUL and it should never have been allowed to be printed in this forum. What the hell have you ever achieved Beserker? Have you written some of the finest sc-fi scripts??? have you won two hugos? Have you ever contributed anything worthwile to anything?
Your just a consumer, remember that and know your place---and show some god damn respect -
The more I contemplate the tortured path events have taken, the more I wonder whether the various egos involved aren't playing games. While it's true that TNT has clearly been stand-offish in it's support for B5 and now Crusade, I begin to question why JMS couldn't have found some alternate financial support from overseas as others have suggested. Reading between the lines of his comments, one gets the impression that he's weary of this universe and if things are not exactly to his liking, he'd rather just take his ball home than play. I became a B5 fan after finding it when it was in syndication. It quickly became my favorite sci-fi show, and I appreciated TNT's picking it up for a fifth season, as well as re-broadcasting the previous seasons, including many shows I hadn't seen. But if truth is to be told, the fifth season was not the best dur to factors many others have discussed. With the exception of In The Beginning, the B5 movies were also sub-par. A Call To Arms intrigued one in terms of setting up the series, but it too was only passable as a singular enjoyable viewing entity. I raise here the possiblity, with all due respect to the fans of a universe that I too love, that JMS just does not have the interest and passion he once had. Perhaps it would have been better if a significant pause had come between B5 and another series. Whatever the case, the is something going on in terms of personality conflicts(see Claudia Christian) that is profoundly detrimental to the continued health and quality of this enterprise. All involved should search within themselves to find answers for their actions.
-
...but I am sure Crusade is now dead and will not have Lorien to revive it.
The hopes for this year are shot. The actors have the ability to do other work. It would be too hard, in my opinion, to try and get everyone back together if a second season became possible.
I am greatly dissapointed. TNT has lost my respect and my viewership after I catch the few Season 5 ep's I missed. SciFi channel will still get my support. I still have hopes for the future, but not much.
JMS, good luck in your next venture.
MAN THIS SUCKS! -
What the %$#$! Ok people for the sake of the last best hope for intelligent television we have to act. Like John Belushi from Animal House, now is not the time to go and sulk. We should find out who these TNT boatanchor Execs are and make their lives miserable.
No Prisoners I say!
We Demand Crusade!
And whats up with those Scifi channel beancounters, don't they realize that Crusade with it's carry over audience from B5 is probably worth more than all their other programming combined.
Arrrgggg!The short sightedness and lack of imagination in the television industry never ceases to amaze. I hope Warner Brothers speed up the release of B5 on tape so I can parental block TNT from my cable box.
-
I was looking forward to Crusade and am greatly disappointed that it has been cancelled before even being given a chance. So many other unknown and un-anticipated shows are provided that opportunity that it seems rather unfair that a program with a built-in fan base wouldn't be given at least the courtesy of airing before it was scrapped. I have read many posts about how Season 5 was 'awful' and 'horrible' and I disagree with the severity of their complaints. Whether there are explanations as to why this happened (Season 4 having to be compressed & Claudia leaving) are, in the end, irrelevent. Season 5 had many flaws but it also had a lot of wonderful episodes and moments. Everything between Londo & G'Kar was wonderful. The five episodes of good-byes were drawn out, but I loved having the opportunity to say good-bye slowly rather than having the universe violently jerked away. If you feel that the fifth season was terrible and the movies are all terrible then you have every right to criticize, but that's not what I see. I see people attacking JMS's overall ability as a writer and even his worth as a human being because he wrote a season and some television movies that you didn't enjoy. If you are or were a B5 fan, then you're not taking into account the four seasons of astonishingly brilliant writing that that season and those movies must be weighed against. And even if you're NOT a B5 fan and never HAVE been, first I question why you're bothering to comment on a series which has nothing to do with you and that you get no enjoyment from and second, you must at least realize from the amount of people who count themselves as B5 fans that JMS has, at the very least, produced a series which has enthralled and entertained a few people. That is all that television is required to do and if it has accomplished that in even a small number of people, then you must at least appreciate that. B5 has entertained me in a way that other television is and was incapable. I am appreciative for JMS and his talents and his 'ego' which filled him with the self-confidence to push to get Babylon 5 on the air in the first place. Your speculations on JMS as a person are ridiculous and a waste of time. You and I know only what he shows us, and that, as it is with anyone even close to celebrity status, is alarmingly little and not even APPROACHING enough to form an opinion of who he is or is not. That includes both deifying him and vilifying him. He deserves none of that. He deserves instead the credit of having put together a television show that many people, including myself, enjoyed. That is exactly how simple it is. I hope that Crusade can be saved somehow, but it is a faint hope. I do not think TNT will give it a fair shake with ratings. Would YOU invest a lot of money in promoting a dead series? Would you even fork out the cash to put it on at a decent time-slot? The only thing I see as possible is that the SF network might pick it up next year when their budget allows. But we'll see. -- ZK.
-
Let's not be ignorant by saying that the fans of B5 who make comments on Voyager are ignorant because they don't watch the show. I have watched nearly every episode and movie of trek, from TOS to Voyager, and I believe that is more than 500 hrs of tv (and more than anyone should have to suffer). Voyager has not shown any signs of improvement, in fact I thought the first season was their best with the feel of a new galaxy and all. But the first season finale about the rotten cheese was the beginning of the end. They started to do less original shows and started to repeat ideas (especially the ones with a alien periodically taking over the holodeck program of the year). This new season has not given anything new or any form of better character development (especially considering Paris was demoted to ensign and it seems like there is not punishment--why is he still present at the meetings,I can barely understand the case of Harry Kim being present at the senior officers meetings). I don't see Paris working his way to the top, but I am sure they will miraculously bring this point up once again in the future and give him back his command. I do not appreciate how all the treks have used time travel whenever they need a ratings booster or cannot think of a good ep. There have been around 30 tt eps in the entire run of trek, and one more is coming for Voyager named Time Bomb. All this manipulating on time and the worlds still a utopia, or maybe starfleet is breaking their time directive and starting to influence the past as they are breaking their prime directive by involving themselves in the affairs of aliens. I think DS9 is good and should be layed off on. And for those trek fans who believe that efc is a merging of trek and B5, I agree. But i do not appreciate how the show need to call itself Gene Roddenbury's Earth Final Conflict, can't it get ratings without attracking the hard core trek fans. But ST is even corrupting this new show, by having a shitty direction for the new season, reminicent of Voyager using any arc it can however thin. If you want quality watch the last season of EFC. AND enough with the season 5 attacks. I didn't like the first half, but the second half was great. Everything cannot be explosive and murderous. Empires need to be built. If you saw the first season, you would agree that it was bad. But we needed it to move to season 2-4. Looking back I think I underjudged the first season, because there were a lot of interesting and controversial ep like Deathwalker (humanity deciding to kill people to become immortal, says alot doesn't it about how humans behave) and believer, b squared, signs and portents, Chrysalis, and Soul Hunter (most others sucked as bad as the first few ep of season 5). We needed season 5 to go further. WIthout it we wouldn't have the plot of the Drak, the virus and Crusade, Londo and the Centauri Prime Trilogy, the Technomage trilogy, and the Psi Core Trilogy. Have you people not noticed the way b5 sets up its action--during the season they give you 3 slow eps and then 1 shocker and then the next 3 deal with the consequences and tend to be slow and then again we have another shocker, and so on. Apply this logic in regards to the entire length of the show, and you will notice that the shadow arc carried the first 4 seasons and started running dry and new life had to be breathed into it to help it move on, and new life it found. I hope that Crusade makes it, and if doesn't i hope the plots find their way to books (especially the one with Bester). And for all of you believers in the ST utopian, it will most likely fail. Because utopians tend to ignore the past and tend to be colorblind to problems. Humans carry thier their past with them along with their families and that of their culture, and utopians just ignore that.
-
I agree that B5's last season does not deserve the criticism it gets.The Centauri story arc concludes in style.Lots of brilliant SFX - the Drazi homeworld for example.Many telepath episodes were good - especially the one where we see things from Bester/Psi Corps point of view.I think the telepath storyline had a lot more potential in it for a new series than the Drakh/virus thing.
As for the movies,yes - River Of Souls and A Call To Arms are not fit to be called Babylon 5.But In The Beginning was brilliant and Thirdspace was a great action movie nohing more,nothing less.
-
Season5 and the TV movies have lead to the END of the B5 universe. Period. They were WAY below par for a series that COULD NOT AFFORD to lose quality. During the first four seasons B5 got better and beter and then finally hit it's peak at the end of season 4. It should have ended there (for a while at least), but no TNT waved a big wad of cash in front of JMS's face to do another season and some TV movies with the promise of a big budget sequel and possibly a feature... Joe took it, who wouldn't? Unfortunately he had sucked the B5 storyline dry, and all he could from that point on was give us raisons... JMS is human, he made mistakes, Crusade is dead, life goes on...
-
As others I'm devastated about the cancelation of Crusade. And if it's ratings TNT wants I say we give them some. I say we try to get everyone we can to watch the 13 eps. when they show and send the ratings off the scale. Also has there actually been a reason given as to why the show was canceled. I don't think it was money, as they just funneld alot into it for new sets and such. Does anyone out there know why?
-
I just emailed the folks at the Sci-Fi Channel about picking up JMS's CRUSADE!
I encourage everyone to consider a write-in campaign to save this show.
Write to:
program@www.scifi.com
Below is a copy of my letter. Tell me what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hello,
I recently read that the Sci-Fi Channel had been interested in picking up Crusade after TNT had stopped production on the show. I also learned that your budget presently would not permit the acquisition.
I have followed the Babylon 5 universe from channel to channel, and was pleased when a major cable studio picked up on the original show. I am looking foward to viewing the few episodes of Crusade that TNT has already paid for. However once the Crusade run has been completed, I plan to discontinue watching TNT in protest of their actions.
There has been, in the past a great void in intelligent sci-fi programming on cable or broadcast television. The Star Trek universe has no continuity, lackluster writing, very little ground breaking material and their 3-5 innovations per show has become annoying. Crusade/B5 offers us a believable realm with a solid story line. Quality sci-fi characters living in a realm more based in science than fiction will again soon be sorely lacking with the untimely demise of this show.
Long term sci-fi shows are hard to come by, as the past has shown us. This is a proven premise. It has a proven and loyal audience. Crusade could be a shining beacon in the Sci-Fi Channel's line-up. It would bring star power to you.
My cable company will be offering the Sci-Fi Channel within the next couple of months. Since I will be no longer will be watching TNT, I will be looking for a new choice. I could become a loyal Sci-Fi Channel devotee, if the show comes to you. The Babylon 5 universe has spawned a plethora of web sites, a merchandising bonanza and comes with a customer base of international viewers (look at the schedule of conventions). Your organization could cash in on this phenomena. All it takes is vision, the viewership is already there.
I realize that your budget constraints may not allow consideration of this until your next season (January?). Give JMS a long term home and he will deliver in spades and I will be watching.
Thanx for your time. -
Does anyone know how TV ratings actually work? I always thought that they were compiled through Nielsen familys. If I'm correct then getting people to watch won't make a difference.
For myself I am sick of shows that I like being cancelled. I would Like to know how to get myself into the ratings. Shows like Crusade, Space above and beyond, Earth2, and all the Star Treks get cancelled when shows like "Dr. Quinn Medicine Women" lives on like a cancer.
If you really want to make a change, then we (as a group) need to find out 1) how ratings are compiled 2) How to get noticed.
Now if anyone does know about ratings please send a message out to the group and to me personally (mgoddard@law.fsu.edu).
P.s. Is there anyone out there who remembers the old BBS version of Robin Hood (the one where Hern is his Father)? Please send me an email w/ the title so I can order them from the video store. -
Feb 28, 1999 9:15:16 PM CST
THE BIG ENCHILADA QUESTION: IS JMS OUR JMS THAT CHIMES IN FROM T
by uncapie
JUST CURIOUS...
-
The Nielsen company distributes boxes called Peoplemeters to a representative sample of U.S. TV Households. The machine records what channels they are watching and through a push-button system who in the household is watching. That is how they get demographics. The machine also records VCR's and every set in the household. (one flaw in the system is that they do not put these in college dorms, so it does not pick up college viewing)
They attempt to make their sample match the population distribution of the United States. So, if you know anything about the general population and bulge of baby boomers heading through it, shows that skew old have an advantage in getting viewers. However, the young are stronger marketing targets, so programming is skewed younger than the population.
Another thing that keeps shows like "Dr Quinn" on air is that older Americans watch a lot more TV than the young. Adults 18 to 24 are the lightest TV viewers. A lot of them have a lot more to do in their lives than to stay glued to the TV set.
Even though we may be sf fans,by and large, this generation of young viewers (I'm talking the 18-24 year olds) seems much more enamored with shows like "Guinness Book of World Records", "South Park", wrestling,
and those Fox car chase shows. SF isn't attracking them in the same numbers it used to. So, that's what programmers are giving them.
Shows like "Felicity" for the girls. "When Animals Attack" for the boys. -
I haven't read all the message posts. I've read everything I can online but I still haven't found the answer to one question. Why is JMS looking to shop the show? TNT hasn't cancelled out of the contract. Is it that they continue to make unreasonable demands on the production? I know they did a major refit, was that not enough. As much as I love B5 and JMS for doing it, is there a chance he is being unreasonable with regards to compromise? It's not like he would be the first person in hollywood to lose perspective on his artistic vision. All I want is a quality show. I love B5 and I'm sure I would have loved Crusade. I almost wish they wouldn't air the episodes at all. It will only serve to remind us of what we will miss.
-
wow see what I miss when I'm away from my computer for a weekend? So in acctuallity the statment reads "the actors have been released from the *show* and are free to do other things" but that they are under contract (of a dead show) HAHA! Well at least the WB has faith in it, keeping the sets seems like a step in the right direction (or MAYBE WB just see's a B5 movie on the horizon?) JMS WE NEED THAT THEATER MOVIE NOW! (use the old cast please :O))
-
It seems like all the attention
in trying to get Crusade back
is focused on TNT or the Sci-Fi
Channel. How about Showtime?
They make a big deal about their
"Sci Friday", and you can bet that
Crusade would bring them a lot
of new subscribers. Seems to me
that any writing campaign ought
to give them a shot too. It's
true that the Sci-Fi channel is
less expensive to those who
receive it, but it's not available
on every cable system like Showtime is. -
What exactly *do* I watch on TNT other than JMS stuff?
Nothing... zip-zilch-nadda!
The same is probably true for most of you.
Start a Boycott? It'll just happen! After end credits of B5C:ep13 I hit the pause button on TNT for the last time. No more reason to go back. No, TNT will be subjected to a vaccuum of viewership without any concerted effort because TNT has a vaccuum of programming.
SciFi: good try. Maybe later. Or even still, how about resurrecting Space A&B?
p.s.: STOP THE B5 v. TREK Crap!
Y'all sound like a bunch of preschoolers in the playground for the Maker's Sake! -
The following is a copy of my response to the question about where the Nielsen numbers come from.
In addition to the "Nielsen People Meter", Nielsen Media Research sends out logbooks to certain randomly selected households during the sweeps months of February, May, July, and November. These logs are completed by hand and mailed back to Nielsen at the end of that week. I do not know precisely how they select the recipient families of the one-week
survey logs, but I do know that I have been selected twice in twenty
years at entirely different addresses. You can find out details about the process at their website:
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/
if you want more information.
-
It's always tempting to want to cast all issues into a simple black and white dichotomy, but from the tone of the previous comments - we're all too mature to do that :>. TNT isn't really the bad guy - they did air the episodes in the daily fashion that really compliments the storytelling. And they did give us Season 5 and the movies - whatever your informed opinions may be about these events. And TNT did not pull the plug on Crusade. They (TNT) simply wanted to take an active role in its development and wanted it to become a creature in the image that they thought would pull in the best ratings... while JMS was determined that it would stick to his version of what the series should be...basically the level of interference at TNT grew greater than JMS was comfortable with and he decided that it was better to pull the plug rather than give in. He has said many times that he accomplished what he wanted to do with SF TV. As anyone who has achieved this feeling of accomplishment can relate to, his desire to compromise and put up with what he considers crap diminished appreciably... No matter what you think of the show or JMS, it is basically his toy and he decided he didn't want to play with it under these circumstances. Apparently WB sided with him on the issue. So who's the villian? You can assign blame as is your wont, but basically you have 2 entities butting heads, both absolutely convinced they know what is best for the product... Personally - I would rather the story end than have it devolve into the substance of what TNT thought would make good SciFi, but your opinion may vary... I don't have a grudge against TNT but I doubt I'll be stopping on their channel anymore 'cause they just don't have anything on that appeals to me...
-
Maybe a way to help fund the series would be to gain sponsorship for the show.
I don't know about the US, but here in UK you can't watch a show without the dreaded "This show was brought to you by [insert some brand name here]".
Could SFC try that to gain the oh so needed dosh to pay for our beloved spin off? -
An addendum about Nielsen--Nielsen has two services. The national ratings (aka the "overnights") are measured by the Peoplemeter panel I described.
The diaries mentioned by another poster are for determining demographics on a local basis. (there is a "local" peoplemeter sample in the larger markets, but it is primarily for household figures). More diaries are sent out because of the sample sizes required to get data for the smaller markets(i.e. Austin, Texas). They determine the ratings for the local affiliates.
It's the national Peoplemeter numbers that TNT and its advertisers use to determine the ratings for Babylon 5 and Crusade.
Your chances of being a diary household are better than being a peoplemeter household. I was in a diary household twice in my lifetime. -
It's a damn shame that such a promising show may end up going down the great toilet bowl of history. Hopefully the eps that were shot will air on TNT and get great ratings. Then all the fans of B5 and Crusade can laugh (after they have cried) at TNT and the SCI-FI network. Maybe someone, somewhere will pick up the show but right know it looks like Crusades time has come and gone.
-
"No matter what you think of the show or JMS, it is basically his toy and he decided he didn't want to play with it under these circumstances."
Now wait a minute. I'm all for creative freedom, but JMS was not a painter working alone in his studio or a novelist in his home office.
As an executive producer, he was also a businessman with business partners: TNT, WB, Netter Digital. And an employer with quite a few employees.
Let's pick Netter Digital for instance. It is a fledgling publicly traded company whose main project was Crusade. It's stock price has dropped substantially since this happened and its investors, some of whom put their trust in them as businesspeople as well as "artists" will suffer.
A "toy"? I think not.
And if you asked Warner Brothers if they'd rather have an unpleasant profitable deal with TNT for 110 episodes than no deal at all, I doubt they'd say "no deal at all". IMO.
As Jerry Doyle says often at his con appearances, "they call it 'show business' not 'show art'". -
I posted the following on a moderated newsgroup. The moderators did not permit its posting, however.
Anyway, the following attempts to approach the Crusade truncation with 'A Call for Money' rather than the tougher (but worthy) drive for more viewers.
Well, here it is:
The Sci Fi Channel cannot afford Crusade because its operating budget lacks
adequate cushion to squeeze it in. Well, I've heard fans before say they'd
be willing to pay $100 (more or less) to continue Season 5. Well, let's
test our loyalty NOW. A 100,000 fans doing this would more than cover the
expenses for the last nine episodes of season 1 Crusade. I believe...
I do not know how many die-hard fans there are. How many? Is this even
possible? What might less than die-hard fans be willing to chip in: $20,
$30, or $40?
If we do have the numbers, we need a structure. We need TRUSTED volunteers
and/or Crusade 'Overlords'. We need a non-profit incorporated movement
name don't we? Or could the fan club as a legal 'entity'? Perhaps even
Warner Brothers or the Sci Fi Channel could participate. The bottom line is
that we need something that people can make a check out too with some
reasonable assurance that Joe Embezzler won't take his girlfriend to Tahiti.
The name must include "Crusade" and another word conveying the movement.
Perhaps: "Crusade for Crusade"! (to be a legal name or entity)
We must also watch out for fake 'movements'. Thus, we need a means to
authenticate. We already have that. We refer to him as JMS. This
moderated forum and others have verified on an almost daily basis whether or
not statements claiming to be his are his or not. Therefore, if and when,
JMS could identify for us the entity and the details for participating in
the drive.
JMS must have the appropriate legal protections too. Warner Brothers ought
to be of help here.
We need some end-game contingencies. What if inadequate money is raised?
What would the organization do with it? Simply return it? That could be
complicated but manageable. Alternatively, and I'm sure we could generate
many, we could agree that the raised money go to some previously unsponsored
post-production effort on B5 (director's cuts; corrections; more f/x; ...),
chosen by JMS. Or, we could select a charity. Too much labor can be spent
on this point quite easily. Frankly, contributors should be prepared to
never see any fruits of their donation but hold out "for the possibility of
hope." What if too much money is raised? Yadda, yadda. But these details
must be understood early on.
We need some kind of a charter stating our goals and rewards. If some kind
of incorporation is necessary, these goals and rewards would be required.
These details are only details. "Faith manages", can you?
"Rewards" bear elaboration. Clearly, those who contribute ought to be
rewarded. We might emulate the public television approach, which offers
different rewards based upon the size of individual contributions. For
example, Warner Brothers would be critical, "Gold" contributors might be
elgible for a highly discounted or if the numbers add up, a free set of DVDs
of Crusade Season 1 or a set of B5 DVDs--whatever. I'm sure a little
brainstorming integrated with some accounting would yield pleasant options.
Hell, we could even go to Public Television, now that would really be
grassroots. But I digress: a lot!
Additionally, the question of ownership must be answered. Something has to
be worked out legally. I don't need to 'own' a piece of "Crusade". The
movement entity would have to spell this out. More details. Don't lose
heart.
We need JMS and WBs' participation, clearly. If so, many details not
mentioned here would have to be hammered out. My ignorance of such details
should be apparent by the end of this message. Optimism is contagious,
though. But so is pessimism. Choose!
To WB, I say this, if such a movement ignites, even if it fails, could you
buy publicity that would be as rewarding?
To JMS, thank you for everything. Also JMS, I feel selfish and
inconsiderate for asking you "once more into the breech". I hope I got that
quote right. I am not asking that you organize this only that you lead it,
at least initially.
To TNT, I'm sorry things didn't work out. Let's not attack TNT no matter
how hurt we feel. It would be unwise. Who knows what a movement could
change? Hearts and minds have changed from less.
To me, try to be more succint!
The fan club(s) and fan websites and newsgroups are critically important to
initiating this. With nothing ventured nothing would be gained. We can be
idle and disappointed or we can "take arms against a sea of troubles". We
may fail, but we can hope. "Hope is all we ever really have!"
Choose!
-
I must say that this is very interesting. As a Business executive I find that Sci-Fi and WB ar playing it close but WB is couinting on high ratings to snag another gig for Crusade. Also Sci=fi could alocate next years budget sooner than we think. Most companies incuding my own begin workingon the next budget only a few months after the last. Notice that the actors can be called back or renewed up till july. WB didnt scap the sets, only put them in storage. WB has someting in mind other wise why spend money on storage costs for a set that wont ever be used again? Possible TV movies? Or moving them for a second season. It makes sense. Someone else has mentioned this and it rings true. Sci-fi can allocate money for it next year, plus they get to see if they really want it by seeing teh first season. Things may not look good but they arent over yet.
my 2cents. -
If the show doesn't work out, I would like to know if there is a chance to see them turned into novels. But I don't even think I can handle 110 books of any sci-fi on my shelf. Maybe jms can be very selective on what he writes, the one with bester catches my eye.
-
Who should we flood now? Are there any other networks besides SciFi and WB we can go to?
-
I don't hate trek. I just thought that it was a lot better than it is know. And the attitude of the trekkies towards other scifi shows and any other possible "attacks" on trek disguist me. Star Trek will probably never die, its too big. But that doesn't mean other shows can thrive. I have said that I enjoyed both next generation and deep space nine. Don't take me for some B5 fanatic, I'm not. I hated season 5 too. Season 4 remains its best year, IMO. Don't assume things about me when you don't even know me. I never said whenther I like or hated season 5 and you assumed it. You don't know crap about me or my opinons. And they are only my opinons, and I don't give a damn if I was the only one who felt this way about trek(I'm not), the worst thing you can do is change your opinons for no other reason than the majority demands. But, a lot of people feel the same way I do about trek. Sorry if this seems harsh, but i really want to get my point across so you don't misunderstand me again.
-
Frankly all of this does not come as a surprise to me. However, I did not expect Crusade to end so quickly. Everyone
-
Even if it would seem so immenent, I don't think that TNT or anything is going to cancel Crusade. Why? Here's some facts:
First, even in a halfway of season 4, it was still very uncertain that there would be season 5 to Babylon 5. Well, it came.
Second, during the Crusade's shooting break in October 1998, they actually received more funding for the series, and new sets were built.
Third, it is a fact that TNT wanted to have little more control over the series than in B5 (Crusade's pilot had to be remaken from a scratch because TNT wasn't satisfied with the first one), and there are some quite certain rumors that JMS actually wanted more control over the series than it was previously intended to.
In my conclusion, all of this hassle is all because those big bosses at TNT or something didn't like the idea, and are now threatening JMS to agree their terms.
First spend lots of more money to the production, over the intended budget, and then few months later cancel the show before it properly began, without good explanations? Sounds very, very bad business for me. -
I've just realised what a lucky TV viewer I am.Where I'm from (Russia) we used to have a TV and movie industry where financing issues were decided by the look of the script,not the profit and loss account.All TV and movie studios were gowernment-funded.Words "market research" were unheard of.Sure,there was the Communist censorship but it was easily evaded.People who decided the fate of a movie or a TV series were themselves contributors to the genre.Talent and originality were deciding factors,not some marketing guy's idea of what could or couldn't sell. As a result we had DECADES of top quality TV and cinema and HUNDREDS of talented actors and directors.
As for the US Entertainment industry,it seems that every time a TV show dares to be slightly on the intellectual side and attracts some real following (and that following is bound to be a relatively small number of people - you can't please everyone)it gets cancelled or changed beyond recognition because it wasn't making money.Of course it's much the same in Russia now,but at least we have a wonderful heritage. -
The last best hope for saving Crusade - WE THE PEOPLE!!
The Internet is a convenient and exiting way for the average person to get across their views to the powers to be. If you haven't already written, DO SO NOW! If everyone on this bulletin board writes in we could make a difference. This is my second email to the networks (the first was to the sci-fi channel). WB is next on my list.
I changed the letter to appeal to TNT and incorporated some views I have read in these postings.
TNT EMAIL
tnt@turner.com
Hello,
I recently heard that TNT had stopped production on filming any new episodes of the new show Crusade.
I have followed the Babylon 5 universe from channel to channel, and was pleased when a major cable studio picked up on the original show. I am looking foward to viewing the few episodes of Crusade that TNT has already paid for. However once the Crusade run has been completed, I do not know where to go to get sci-fi programming.
There has been, in the past a great void in intelligent sci-fi programming on cable or broadcast television. TNT has provided this via their continued support of the Babylon 5 series and special movies which I appreciate. It has been a good alternative to the Star Trek legacy (presently Voyager and Deep Space Nine). With the upcomming release of the Star Wars prequel there will be renewed interest in top-of-the-line space based science fiction programming. Believe me there will be an onslaught of space shows/movies once the powerful Star Wars empire is revived.
TNT is sitting on a potential gold mine with this B5 spin off. The company has already invested in the show's sets and props, it has the special effects bugs worked out, the actors are still under contract and the writers and production teams know their respective roles. Other studios will be rushing to meet the public's demand for variations on the sci-fi theme when they see the box office receipts of "The Phantom Menace". Timing is everything. TNT already has a jump on the competition with their Crusade resources.
Long term sci-fi shows are hard to come by, as the past has shown us. This show with it's B5 heritage is a proven premise. It has a proven and loyal audience. Crusade could be a shining beacon in TNT's line-up (an earlier time slot than 10:00PM would be nice). Crusade/B5 offers us a believable realm with a solid story line. Quality sci-fi characters living in a universe more based in science than fiction will again soon be sorely lacking with the untimely demise of this show. Crusade could be a shining beacon in TNT's line-up.
The Babylon 5 universe has spawned a plethora of web sites, a merchandising bonanza and comes with a customer base of international viewers (look at the schedule of conventions). Your organization could cash in on this phenomena. All it takes is vision, the viewership is already there.
Give JMS what he has been lacking so far: a long term home, and he will deliver in spades. There will be plenty of people watching.
Thanx for your time.
-
Hate to say it but I was not that impressed with the Crusade movie.
If they are pulling the plug without even showing the thing and seeing how the ratings go TNT must think it is really bad. Usually networks at least show a program before giving up. If they have so little confidence it is a very ominous sign.
I'm not just deferring to the network on this.
The premise of the show just wasn't that great. Babylon 5 was the greatest battle ever in that universe between the greatest enemies and heroes.
I think it should have ended about five or six episodes after Into the Fire and got it over with.
The whole fifth season was padding. Some worth watching but once the real story was over it just was never the same. -
In the year between the pilot and the series of the original Babylon 5 the premise for the show read something like, 'A Sci-Fi series based on a space station in a far away sector of space.'. I can't believe these people judging the Crusade series when they haven't even seen a single shred of it. It was the 13'th episode of B-5 that I just happened to catch that made me take the series seriously. Before that I was just casualy watching it (and missing most of the episodes). I would have called it an ok Sci-Fi series that's pretty much a copy of DS9. Now a days I don't even bother watching DS9 (I'm not trying to say DS9 is bad, I just don't watch a whole lot of TV and I would take B-5 as my choice show over DS9 in a heart beat :). Lets wait till those first few episodes of Crusade air before we pass judgement 'k?
I'm guessing there's a lot of fans of B-5 now that came in during the third or fourth season of B-5. Those are definitly the most exciting years of the show, but you must realise that the build up to them was half the fun. Every week spent waiting for all the problems to get resolved only to see things grow steadily worse and worse for the characters, and walking away wondering how they're going to get through the coming storm. Ah the good ol' days. :)
I for one would like to someday see what the Drak have up their sleeves and witness what the war with them was like.
-
I am sick of cheesy sci-fi, yet cheese seems to get made before quality! As soon as something good comes along, it's shot down in flames!Gary cole is a jinx!, but a cool actor! TNT can keep their doug mcclure films!!!
-
Before everyone writes off Crusade, which has 13 episodes done, which is typical for any mid-season repalcement, a few words to live by.
"Dedicated to all the people who predicted that the Babylon Project would fail in its mission. Faith manages."
The Deconstruction of Falling Stars
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 439 total posts 159 posts
- WTF HOLLYWOOD: SOLARBABIES -- 144 total posts 142 posts
- Herc’s Seen Tonight’s Return Of THE WALKING DEAD!! Discuss Also DOWNTON ABBEY, FEAR FACTOR, PAN AM, ONCE, SIMPSONS, DYNAMITE, LUCK, SHAMELESS, BAIT CAR, THE GRAMMYS And More!! Sunday Is Sweeps Day 11!! -- 155 total posts 140 posts
- Avid Comic Reader Hercules Does Battle With Tedium During Kevin Smith’s COMIC BOOK MEN! -- 55 total posts 45 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 196 total posts 45 posts
- I am The Behind the Scenes Pics of the Day! No, I’m the Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day! -- 35 total posts 35 posts
- If the Behind the Scenes Pics of the Day drops her pen, pick it up, but don’t look at her legs or else it will be on your record. -- 60 total posts 34 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 127 total posts 32 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 513 total posts 29 posts
- The Sensorties Revisit The Friday Docback (And Still Smell)!! DOCTOR WHO Story #7 Again, The Coming Of Season/Series 7, And More!! -- 118 total posts 27 posts