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"Crusade": The Fat Lady Sings ((official statement re: show's demise...))

Glen here...

...with a follow-up to COAXIAL'S EARLIER POST announcing the official cancellation of the Babylon 5 spin-off Crusade.

Series creator and Executive Producer J. Michael Straczynski has issued an official statement on the subject, which also answers some questions about the thirteen episodes which have already been filmed (some already completed).

Here is his statement:


_______________________________


JMS wrote:

Bottom line:

The reason we've been waiting so long for news is that the SciFi Channel has been crunching numbers for weeks, trying to make the deal work with WB, and doing their level best. The programming folks there loved the show (and special thanks has to go to Programming Head Tom Vitale at SFC who worked hardest to make this work).

The problem is simply this: the money to fund a series is a BIG chunk of change. SFC had already allocated its budget for the year as of January 1st, and there simply wasn't enough left in this year's budget to pull it off. Also, the emphasis now is on spending money on shows where one owns a piece of it, and Crusade is owned entirely by WB.

At the end of they day, they just couldn't make the dollars work, though they tried their damndest, and are only to be thanked.

I'm told that if the ratings are good on the 13 which TNT will still air, all the eps made so far will be shown, there may be a second season, but we'll see.

Meanwhile, I'm taking the day off. There have been seven offers for overall deals and multiple network pilot deals with both networks per se and studios on my desk for about a year now, ever since B5 ended, which I've been putting off to do Crusade. Now I'll pick one of those deals and make it. So the next thing from me you see will almost certainly be on one of the major networks. I'm going back into the deep water again....

Meanwhile, my thanks to all those who emailed and wrote and called and supported. It's a good show, as will be seen when the shows are aired, and I'd rather lose a show I believed in than keep one I didn't believe in.

jms

_______________________________


Glen again...

In summation:

** my previous report announcing the cast of Crusade has been released from their contracts is NOT entirely correct.

The actors & crew of Crusade are now free to go on to do whatever they feel like doing. Should the series be re-activated during the duration of their contract, the cast is obligated to return to the series by a contract which binds them until (approximately) mid-summer.

** Crusade episodes are no longer being produced - the thirteen episodes which have already been filmed will be completed (FX, score, etc.) and then aired on TNT.

** JMS implies the vague possibility of "a second season" of Crusade being produced should the ratings of the existing thirteen episodes be good enough to warrant doing so (even though his first season was supposed to be 22 episodes long, and only thirteen will be completed and aired). ((Glen Note: In all honesty, I wouldn't hold out much hope at all for this eventuality coming to pass.))

So there you have it folks. It's about as sucky as sucky can get, but that's the way it is...


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Readers Talkback
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  • Feb. 26, 1999, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Why?

    by djlong

    Paramount owns UPN and can keep putting out a show like Voyager. Yet, jms tells us that Warner can't do the same with WB because of corporate internal competition and the way things are structured.. B5 supposedly "couldn't go to cable" as jms told us back when PTEN was dissolving, but it ended up on TNT. Why did that impossibility come about and yet WB can't? Showtime has Stargate and still manages to sell it to syndication after it's commercial-free run. Time-Warner owns HBO. Why can't Crusade end up there? Why? I guess this just proves that I Don't Get It.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Hope

    by Luna

    All, I can say is that I feared this would happen. Ever since the shifting of powers at TNT they've been pumping out more westerns & wrestling shows. But even though they'll be the ones to air the 13 epis. (and probably bury them in the schedule at 3-4 a.m.), they'll still be aired & maybe, just maybe another channel will see the potential & pick up the show. So have faith.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 3:33 p.m. CST

    What's the deal?

    by BryanC

    What's the deal with the networks and the obviously blatant HELL they seem to enjoy putting some of their fans through, especially FOX! Why is it that good sci-fi shows are regularly canceled, and the crappy ones just keep on comin'? I'm talking in particular about S:AAB, B5, and CRUSADE. S:AAB has got to be one of the finest shows ever produced in the genre, but never had a chance to become anything except scraps for the Sci-Fi channel to snatch up. Don't get me wrong, I regularly watch the few eps we do get, but I wish just once, a MAJOR network would get its head on straight, or at least our of it a**, and make a TRUE commitment to quality SCI-FI! JMS, Please don't leave us for long. We'll miss you and your B5 universe, and I bet most want a lot of answers for the plots left hanging!

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 3:46 p.m. CST

    drag

    by barnaud2

    oh well what a drag, at least we will get a taste, and thats a lot. to bad number 14 couldn't be made to wrap it up.... TV is TV and I bet, much like the little bit of SAAB we got made it great maybe we will thank god for the 13.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 4:05 p.m. CST

    hey lets not mourn too long...

    by mckracken

    we still got 13 episodes (1 more than I'm expecting Buckaroo Banzai to get) well FANS OF CRUSADE...set those VCRs, cause I'll be recording them ALL (Suckfest or not!!) what will happen now with the B5 reruns? Will they move to Sci/fi channel?? Will TNT produce any more B5 movies? (not likely) In All likelyhood, TNT will ONLY air these episodes ONE TIME and ONE TIME only...mostly NOT getting released on video.....so sad BUT at least we got 13 shows....

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Faith manages

    by Baggins

    Some of the posts to these talkbacks indicated a lack of faith in the Sci-Fi Channel's ability to sustain a show such as "Crusade". If we believe the tone of JMS's discussions with Sci-Fi, however, it would seem that they are the best hope for the continuation of "Crusade" past 13 episodes. Good ratings for these shows (and their evident quality, we hope) might persuade Sci-Fi to keep a spot in next year's budget open for a second season of "Crusade". I know this is a long shot, but it is the best one we B5 fans have. I'm also hoping for eventual movies/mini-series concerning the Telepath War and The Redemption of Centauri Prime. Until then, we'll just have to be satisfied with books and keeping the faith.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 4:33 p.m. CST

    for Djlong

    by mckracken

    Yaknow you have a valid point there with the whole time/warner owning HBO, only two possible reasons why it wouldnt go that route 1)JMS didnt want to sell the show to a pay cable station like HBO, he wanted to keep it on TV for everyone to enjoy. 2) the ratings for "Space Truckers" sucked SOOOOOOOO bad that HBO feared the worst with Sci/Fi.HBO isnt really into the whole sci/fi Tv thing anyway. I mean, look at the shows they have. Besides "Spawn" animated series, they dont have ANYTHING even CLOSE to ANYTHING related to sci/fi. :O( -McK

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Crusade

    by TheMage

    Perhaps it's me, but JMS seems more than a bit weary from all this fighting over the show. Maybe it's best that things lay low for awhile, we all come out for the shows that do air and show Warner's, TNT, Sci-Fi, etc, they'll be making a big mistake in letting this show pass without a real chance. Another key to it's possible ressurection would be to gauge whether the actors involved are willing to come back if the circumstances are right.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Not all lost

    by Nodakskip

    Just rember this one thing. The first Star Trek died kind of like this,and then came back huge,and the show Buffy TVS had only 13 episodes its first season and was a mid season replacement. Now its in its 3rd season and one of the best and hotest shows.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 4:56 p.m. CST

    may God help us all

    by sting

    In the end,what doesn't kill us only makes us stonger. HOpefully God will make the networks stonger at producing good shows, instead of the crap that is on now. I hope that TNT picks the show up again after the 13 are aired. But this just is another reason why I shouldn't get cable. The only thing they have good is Babylon and Celebrity Deathmatch (and sometimes LOveline). All the good stuff they have is from the networks. Hopefully, Babylon will be resurrected and i will get a chance to get cable.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 4:56 p.m. CST

    may God help us all

    by sting

    In the end,what doesn't kill us only makes us stonger. HOpefully God will make the networks stonger at producing good shows, instead of the crap that is on now. I hope that TNT picks the show up again after the 13 are aired. But this just is another reason why I shouldn't get cable. The only thing they have good is Babylon and Celebrity Deathmatch (and sometimes LOveline). All the good stuff they have is from the networks. Hopefully, Babylon will be resurrected and i will get a chance to get cable.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 5:02 p.m. CST

    ENDGAME

    by orac_uk

    This is a dark day for quality sci-fi...a very dark day. Frustrating isn't? When paramount can produce crap like Voyager etc without even a hint of cancellation. Crusade had so much potential, it will leave a huge vortex. What's left???? And to anyone from TNT thats reading this...you are all spineless and clueless...go back to the land of bland programming and let the Trekkies stick with Trek. Thanks anyway JMS and those at SCI-FI channel who did their best. I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the huge UK B5 following to wish JMS and the rest of Babylonian the very best for the future. Your place in sci-fi history is set in stone - here's to B5 on DVD FOREVER!

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 5:07 p.m. CST

    A damn shame...

    by jennis

    It's been such a rocky road for Crusade, with all the antics on TNT's part. And yet, anyone who has ever kept up with Babylon 5 during it's initial run knew full well it defied the odds every season it stayed on the air. Even when I heard TNT was dropping Crusade, I never doubted that it would continue on in some form or another. Until now. It seems like such a waste to even air the 13 episodes. Not that they woudln't be worth watching, but it's like throwing us all a bone. We get just enough for our mouths to water, and then, silence. And even if for some insane reason that TNT decided to make a second season, they're the whole reason for this situation in the first place. How much faith can you have in a higher power (TNT) that seems to have the personality of Sybil and all the charm of Ted Kazynski? They are as convoluted as their wrestling shows' storylines. For me, what saddens me the most is not just the loss of a potentially good show, but that mystery and intrigue that undoubtedly marks the writing of JMS. I can still remember way back in season 1 of B5 beginning to see those first glimpses of a much larger story line. It seemed like I would spend as much time talking to my friends about the episode I just watched as I would watching the actual episode, just trying to figure out what was going on. In later seasons, while not bad by any means, the mystery was mostly gone, the climax already hit, and it was merely things playing themselves out. You knew what would happen, it was just a matter of how. But Crusade could have brought that mystery back, and now we'll likely never see it completely unfold. I hope JMS takes a nice long vacation after all of this. I don't think that anyone will doubt the impact he has made on television, and hopefully will continue to in one way or another, although I can't say I have any more faith in network TV than I do TNT. The fact is, there isn't a whole lot else on TV to look forward to, and one of the biggest things I did just made that journey beyond the rim.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 5:25 p.m. CST

    At least we have Voyager...

    by Alfred_Bester

    You know in this week of depressing news (Crusade's death, MST's death, death of the B5 Space Sim) it's sure nice to remember that we always have Voyager to fall back on. (Now where did I put that noose?) It sure seems that all the shows I'm interested in or excited about are getting the shaft. Yes the old adage still holds true: Life sucks, then you die.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 6:04 p.m. CST

    Congrats JMS

    by Dolfanar

    Congratulations to JMS for 4 years of the best sci-fi ever, and doing something FEW others have done, REFUSING to compromise... Let's consider what JMS has produced since going over to TNT... ItB (quite good), Thirdspace (Looked great, bad story), 5th season (Throwaway stories, ridiculously oversentimental ending (read D-R-A-W-N O-U-T) and River of Souls (I wont even bother to dignify with a response). B5 was on the decline, Joe was tired of doing the same old same old, he TRIED to do something original, and got slammed... Maybe once we see the 13 we will agree with TNT's opinion, Maybe they will be so Fantastic that sci-fi will feel obligated to pick up a season... who knows? (I hope JMS re-edits the Post-upgrade episodes so that they take place AFTER the first 5, And that he get's to show the the shows how he originally intended, before TNT's interference... what does he have to lose now?

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Voyager cold comfort

    by orac_uk

    Kicking Voyager? Does it need kicking? It's hardly caught the imagination of the sci-fi masses now has it? Just pointing out the fact that brain dead tired sci-fi (an accurate description of Voyager) continues without threat of cancellation, whilst NEW shows cannot survive in this climate of pandering to the average, brain dead viewer. The same viewers that lap up Trek crap then attack anything new they fear may take away their beloved weekly fix of predictable fast food styled pulp.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Voyager lives...

    by Dolfanar

    Because UPN is keeping it on life-support, an because pre-bubescent teens get-off on the action figures, post-pubescent teens get off on Jeri Taylor, Middle Age house wives get an extra hour of mindless soap opera action, and middle age men can watch it without pissing off their wives (Like Baywatch does...). Low intellectual involment & TnA, STAR TREK's Glorious Legacy... Meanwhile B5 one of the first relatively successful INTELLIGENT, EPIC and CONSISTENT Sci-fi, dies a death that we all saw coming miles away, you can only stave off death so many times (then he get's cranky)... Sex appeal IS everything after all (Should of realized... Princess Di get's 5 months worth of grief, Mother Teresse get's a 30 second sound byte...)

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Farewell...

    by Chapaev

    So,farewell Crusade... At least now I don't have to worry about not seeing it at all or having to endure a moronic translation.Condolences from Russia to B5 fans everywhere. Still,a true work of Art is incompatible with the idea of spin-offs,maybe it's better this way...

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 6:30 p.m. CST

    the way tv works, we're lucky to see 13

    by zooty

    thanks to all for the information on crusade's fate. the release of the actors and crew will make it very difficult to re-start without massive re-tooling, should the opportunity even present itself. but i respect jms for not wanting to commit to a version of his creation he didn't believe in fully. i seem to remember gene roddenberry fuming about the things star trek's legal owners did to it over his objections. i do think it's unfair (but the universe is unfare) that upn has a no-fault insurance policy that guarantees its flagship flies no matter how wobbly the course, where wb won't risk one season to see if lightning could strike twice with a similarly loyal fan-base. quality comparisons are risky business with sci-fi, but i have to admit that while i have found something to enjoy in every other incarnation of star trek, the only thing about voyager that has ever captured my imagination has been the unflaggingly superb art direction. take a rest jms, you've certainly earned it. frankly i'm surprised tnt intends to finish and run what's been done under any circumstances. let's at least see what all the fuss was about.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 7:31 p.m. CST

    goodbye

    by DarkZX

    Well now its over. I think JMS did a great job. There are very few things that I can truly say effected my life. But B5 is one of them. It was a very amazing TV show, that had much more in it then just sex and violents. I'm sorry to see it go. But its time for JMS to relax, and take on a new project. We will see B5 agian, i know it. But for now lets all rest.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 7:51 p.m. CST

    SAVE CRUSADE NOW!!!

    by G'Xan

    RED ALERT!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!! As you know, we've been informed of the plot to destroy B5: Crusade before it's birth. We will NOT let that happen! Attention everyone! This is an emergency call to man the warships!! We must fight for Crusade! WE CAN WIN!! My good friend Ken'til'zha has organized a Save Crusade Pledge at: http://freecenter.digiweb.com/people/klm/ He just whipped it up just a few minutes ago, so it don't look pretty. But it's the start of what we hope will be a great crusade to save Crusade. :-) Please, please spread the word!! http://freecenter.digiweb.com/people/klm/ Long live Babylon 5!! Long live JMS!! Long live Crusade!! -Councilor G'Xan-

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 7:52 p.m. CST

    SAVE CRUSADE NOW!!!

    by G'Xan

    RED ALERT!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!! As you know, we've been informed of the plot to destroy B5: Crusade before it's birth. We will NOT let that happen! Attention everyone! This is an emergency call to man the warships!! We must fight for Crusade! WE CAN WIN!! My good friend Ken'til'zha has organized a Save Crusade Pledge at: http://freecenter.digiweb.com/people/klm/ He just whipped it up just a few minutes ago, so it don't look pretty. But it's the start of what we hope will be a great crusade to save Crusade. :-) Please, please spread the word!! http://freecenter.digiweb.com/people/klm/ Long live Babylon 5!! Long live JMS!! Long live Crusade!! -Councilor G'Xan-

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 7:53 p.m. CST

    I'm not a B5 fan and I don't like Voyager

    by Peteski

    First off, I'm not a sore loser. I was never in to B5 but I feel bad that Crusade is getting axed before it really had a chance to prove itself. Voyager really deserves to get axed. DS9 deserves it too. Cupid, MST3K and Crusade DON'T deserve it. Each have different reasons. And it's not about "being good enough for the masses". It's about grabbing Nielsen Family viewers. It doesn't matter what WE think - it's only what they think. Oh and if what I heard is true, it wasn't "creative differences" that stopped Crusade from getting picked up as a series - it was JMS' God complex. Apparently TNT just got tired of dealing with him. It's happened before with other famous types. Welp, the more I learn of Hollywood, the more I want to write novels for a living. Anyone know a publisher who is looking for some cool scifi ideas originally meant for TV? -peteski@spinninghead.com

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 8:11 p.m. CST

    a question

    by Everett Robert

    could someone please explain the whole animosity between B5 and Star Trek. While I'm not a HUGE B5 fan I can respect it for what it is. I personally perfer Star Trek, but that's just my taste...I grew up on Classic Trek and didn't have a chance to get into B5 until it was on TNT so I never got into it. But I still don't understand whay there is so much fighting over Star Trek and B5?...I know Voyager is crap(for the most part...lately it's been allirght but any star trek show where the ship lands on a planet is just evil in my opinon that's what turned me off to Voyager in the first place and I heard it didn't get much better...I've cuaght some episodes this season and they were pretty good but I digress...)but don't make B5 to be super intelligent...remember they also have fater then light travel and humioned looking aliens too. I don't want to start a big fight here but I just want to know why there is so much HATE between Trek and Babylon 5...that's all

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 8:35 p.m. CST

    A little on Voyager

    by Alfred_Bester

    I know this is just kicking a dead horse, I know I'll never "convert" anybody from loving Trek, and I know this will probably degrade into a Trek versus the whole universe deal, but I thought I'd like to point out why Voyager is simply no replacement for a new B5 series. Simply put, NOTHING EVER HAPPENS on Voyager. I missed I think most of the past few years of it, but I can turn on any episode and see that not much has changed. As a matter of fact, nothings changed, except maybe wardrobe. In B5 empires fell, people died, people screwed up. While not every episode was this way, overall stuff happened. Interesting stuff, bad stuff, good stuff. Look at my current favorite show Buffy, stuff happens, good stuff, bad stuff, funny stuff. Voyager has no stuff. Voyager has an incredible budget and a loyal fan base, why not push the edges a bit, mix things up, make it interesting for goodness sake. That's the end of my opinion on that. Rage on loyal Trekkers. (BTW, I still consider myself a Trek fan, at least of the original series and most of ST:TNG.)

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 8:58 p.m. CST

    maybe if season 5 didnt suck...

    by DinoZoot

    Lets face it, season 5 was one big drawn out epilogue. I consider the first 4 seasons of B5 to be the best sci-fi I have ever seen on television. Season 5 just didnt measure up. I doubt anyone would put a season 5 episode in their top 10 or top 20 B5 episodes list...and dont even think of mentioning Sleeping in Light b/c that was made during the 4th season...I watched (and taped) season 5 out of loyalty and it pained me that the quality of writing dropped way below the bar the previous seasons set for the show. The movies also disappointed. River of Souls was just plain awful and A Call To Arms was just so-so. People complain that TNT didnt give the movies or season 5 a big enough push (and thus did not generate ratings), but I think that weak writing in season 5, the "real" B5 story ending in season 4, and bad TV movies contributed significantly to the demise of any B5 franchise. I will watch the 13 episodes of Crusade...I hope its good...B5 has raised the standard of good TV sci-fi so it will be interesting to see if Crusade can measure up. Regardless, prime time TV is not the end all be all of sci-fi...maybe JMS will tell the story in another format (a saturday morning cartoon would kick ass IMO) or in novels or comic books.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Season5

    by _gunslinger

    I agree that season five was just there to tie up loose ends, but to say there was nothing worht while on season 5 is pure b.s. Put the crack pipe down before posting :-} One of the most memorable scenes from the series, for me at least, came from the fifth. Who here was not going Holy Sh*t when Lyta had the people under her control and said "you cannot harem one who has been touched by Vorlons" and then wham, Sheridan poops in w/ the ppg to her head. That was one of the defining moments for me.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Along the Season 5 thread

    by Alfred_Bester

    Yep, Season 5 in no way compared with the rest of Babylon 5. I think the two biggest problems were a.) JMS had to try and bring everything to a semi-conclusion due to the uncertainty of a 5th season and b.) Claudia Christian leaving. Closing the arcs like that really took a lot of the wind out of his sails and losing a major character and trying to introduce another was too much. He simply didn't have time and the episodes didn't seem to be firing on all cylinders. The Psi-Corp arc was really pretty poor, I thought. Still though, toward the end, I think it really picked up. I think the Londo arc toward the end was really moving. OK, enough of this, I'm really of the subject.

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 10:04 p.m. CST

    season 5 (again...) and Crusade

    by landbote

    I don't know about everyone else, but I think that the latter half of Season 5 was every bit as good as the third/fourth seasons. The former half of Season 5 didn't suck, either... it dragged at times, but it certainly didn't suck. "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari" was one of the best episodes of the series. Period. I've been watching season 5 again during the daily re-runs, and it really is good. I think the whole deal with TNT may very well have cheapened "Crusade" if it had gone on... so maybe it's best that it ends like it does. I for one am grateful that we have 5 years of B5 and that TNT will show the 13 episodes of Crusade. Although why they're going to go ahead and show them if they "don't want" the show is beyond me. Just don't stop showing B5 until I have all of season 5 taped, okay?

  • Feb. 26, 1999, 10:20 p.m. CST

    THE STORY DOESN'T HAVE TO DIE!!!

    by Whitebread

    I don't know if JMS reads this stuff, but if he does, I want to make my plea right here: I understand the death of Crusade, and I tremendously respect your decision not to let the higher-ups destroy your show. Also, I'm not about to tell you that you "owe" us, as fans, anything. You've tried your damndest and we wouldn't have what we have now if it weren't for you. But PLEASE... PLEASE, tell us the story somehow! Commision a novel series or even (and this is MY favorite) do it as a comic book! You've done B5 comics and I'm going to be first in line to buy "Rising Stars" when it comes out. It can work, man! PLEASE! SAVE CRUSADE!

  • Feb. 27, 1999, 5:12 a.m. CST

    Why we hate Trek

    by orac_uk

    Good morning Trekkies , this is your wake-up call. Season 5 not up to par with the others??? Fact: B5's worst has always been a hell of alot more watchable than Trek's best. WE hate the way you Trekkies attack any new programme that is independant from the Trek universe. You are responsible for this useless climate where crap like DS9 and Voyager continue despite an obvious lack of quality. It's dumb, throway television for a brain dead generation that doesn't want change. Beserker is the typical narrow minded trekker - he attacked Crusade because it posed a major threat to his beloved trek empire. Attacked a show before it had even aired for gods sakes. You lot may want to exists purely on a diet of fast food Trek, but alot of us DEMAND a little more. The axing of Crusade will send shockwaves through this creative industry, it is a savage blow to new non-trek related sci-fi. Other producers will take even fewer risks after what TNT have done. Babylon 5 did wonders for the sci-fi television industry, and it breathed new life and got a hell of alot people interested in sci-fi again. It wasn't Trek that did this...it was Babylon 5. B5 introduced us to the term Spoilers, sci-fi magazines saw their redearship triple whilst B5 was in production. We had a producer who loved the genre, who spent many hours on the net explaining the complexities of tv production, answering endless questions. Whilst promoting B5 in this unique manner, he also welcomed the birth of other shows like Lexx and Dark Skies. Paramounts response to B5 was to try and encourage networks to dump it! So...no more comments on Trek please....Trek has been dead since 1968.

  • Feb. 27, 1999, 7:26 a.m. CST

    VOY: 4 years of crap, 1 year of quality?

    by Troy

    Sorry... but Voyager is just plain crap. I don't care how much it's "improved" this year. -A TOS, TNG, DS9(upto Suckrifice of Angels) and B5 Fan

  • Feb. 27, 1999, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Lay off, guys...

    by Whitebread

    Y'know, guys, just as there are the rabid Trek fans that give the rest of them a bad name, there are guys like Orac who do the same for B5. You don't like Trek? Fine. You hate B5? Bully for you. You think Star Wars is overrated drek? You're obviously on drugs, but you're ENTITLED to it. You want to know the truth? I like all three. I think SW is the greatest Sci-fi movie series ever made. I think B5 is the best TV show. And I think Trek paved the way for both of 'em. I think Season 5 was underrated and I think DS9 has improved by leaps and bounds the past few years. And while I don't have a chance to watch Voyager very often, the more recent episodes are a lot better then the crap they started out with. The point -- have your own opinion. Don't let anyone make up your mind for you. And feel free to express it. But for the love of Christ, if you find someone who disagrees, treat 'em with respect. There's no reason to be a grade-A asshole just because someone else has his own damned opinion. Grow up, guys.

  • Feb. 28, 1999, 1:57 p.m. CST

    A Pix 'n' Mix Of SF.

    by Abel

    Orac, you are clearly a fool. In my opinion B5 is the best of the Sci-fi series but that does not stop others from being pretty damn good at times also. STNG Best Of Both Worlds had me on the edge of my seat. Likewise 'The Inner Light'. DS9 gets it right some of the time but you still get the feeling they are making it up episode by episode. Voyager has had a few great episodes but is mainly well dodgy. Crusade looked like it was going to be cool. And Rodenberry's planet of the skimpily dressed women syndrome aside the original Trek was quite amusing. And Patrick Stewart is the BEST. Do you see Cop show fans pulling each others hair out? Come on! To quote Jack Nicholson, "Why can't we just get along?" Coming Of Shadows & Long Twilight Struggle, get some trek fans around, show them that. Then ask them to show you Best of Both Worlds & Projections. Frantic video borrowing would result.

  • March 1, 1999, 4:26 a.m. CST

    Voyager

    by BDY

    Look folks, a couple blinks of light does not a good show make. I've been a Star Trek fan for a helluva long time. I remember being excited when I first heard about the Next Gen. I remember being excited about DS9. I even remember being excited about Voyager. Hell, I even spent the $80-some bucks to get every Trek movie in letterbox. I am a Trekkie. I also remember the first time I say B5. I thought; "Well this is interesting." Unlike Trek, B5 had to earn my devotion. And episode by episode, it did. I love Trek. I love B5. But lets face it. At its absolute best, Trek can be said to on par with a decent B5 episode. At its best B5 has no equal. When they make a statement, you get it loud & clear. Trek a lot of the times you've gotta wade throught the techno-crap. Like I said earlier, a couple good eps. does not make Voyager a good show. It takes them 4 years just to get it somewhere near right? Come on. I'll check in on every now & then, but I've stopped wasting my Wed. nights with Voyager. Even the movie was disappointing. And don't mistake Crusades current situation for a lack of support or quality. What you've seen is a result of a sci-fi show not fitting in with a Western/Wrestling tv station. I still love Trek as much as I ever did, but it simply cannot hold a candle to B5.

  • March 1, 1999, 7:14 a.m. CST

    Reality Check

    by freddy33

    First off, I enjoyed B5 while it lasted. However, I am also a bit of a realist. JMS is not the second coming! B5 is not the end-all, be-all of sci-fi! It was a good sci-fi series; nothing more, nothing less! The main problems with B5 were the acting and dialogue. It had a very good plot but lacked execution at times. I know that this will come as a shock to some, but Claudia Christian is the worst actress in the history of sci-fi (Mulgrew is a close second). Whenever she had to say something humorous, I had to puke. I was actually embarassed for her when she uttered those pathetically, unfunny lines. While DS9 may have some thin, throwaway plots at times, the acting and dialogue more than make up for it. For me, execution (acting,dialogue,etc.) takes priority over plot. A great plot is nothing if it doesn't have the execution to back it up. I am not a mindless JMS zombie nor a trekkie. I realize that until recently, Voyager has been one continuous suck-fest and that the first season of ST:TNG was pretty bad. I also know that the first and last seasons of B5 were less than stellar. For me, the determination of the better series comes down to one question: If I had to watch a rerun of an episode I've already seen, which would I rather watch: a DS9 or B5 one? The answer for me as always been DS9. Sorry for the long post.

  • March 1, 1999, 9:29 a.m. CST

    JMS god complex?

    by xyzzy

    Just looking over some of the comments about why Crusade died, I noticed a lot about JMS being impossible to work with, because he has a "God complex". Whether true or false, I fail to see the claim's relevance. Would Tolkien have wanted, say, David Eddings, to round off his Lord of the Rings trilogy? Would we say that George Lukas has a God Complex if he doesnt allow Stephen Spielburg to tell him how SW ought to be? This is a misleading statement in a creative endevour. I, for one, only want to see/hear/read stories from those who had a God complex about their vision. That is because it is THEIR vision, for us to watch, or not, as we choose. Things done by committee tend to be safer, less controversial, and also less challenging and less interesting. It is the absolute right of any artist to want to protect the integrity of their work. Then, it is the viewer, the reader, and ultimately history, that will decide its worth in the end. One doubts that ANY professional writer, filmmaker, or artist, with pride in their craft, takes very kindly to others attempting to force their own influence onto the product by compromising the original vision.

  • March 1, 1999, 7:06 p.m. CST

    B5/Crusade vs All the Treks

    by Morgana

    There is little GOOD Sci-Fi on TV as it is without badmouthing what acceptable series there are. Each series has weaknesses and strengths. Trek, TNG were by far the best. But, they are gone. DS9 is in it's LAST year. Voyager is all we'll have soon. If we beat it to death, then what? I personally prefer B5, and want to see Crusade, but if all I have to see is re-runs of Trek-anything or B5- anything, they still beat game shows, Oprah, Springer, and the boney chick: AliMcClaw. What is so remarkable about all of these series is that they all tell a story without profanity, violence, bloodshed, and preachyness. Let's enjoy and support them all while we have them. Maybe by next year, all we'll have are the tapes we made, and we'll look at this time as the "golden era" of Sci-Fi. Remember how popular Westerns were? Where are they now?

  • March 1, 1999, 11:52 p.m. CST

    things babylonian

    by Severian_of_Urth

    I didn't know that wanting to have one's work published as one envisioned (whether in print or in audiovisual media) was now called God complex. I thought that was reserved for figures like Stalin and Hitler. Oh, wel, I'll have to rewrite my dictionary again. Would Samuel Clemens had allowed Ambrose Bierce to fool with his Mississippi? I think he would have given Bitter Bierce the o'l mark-two finger had he tried to. One thing I liked about B5 was that tech was transparent and didn't get in the way of storytelling (similarly to the so-called New-Wave speculative fiction of the 60's and 70's which replaced hardware with humanware). But I will make a pause and comment on the tech part a bit (I'm no astrophysicist, you are warned). From what I know, technically speaking, there is NO FTL travel in B5. Heck, even the speed limit in Hyperspace is pretty much the speed of light. What I think happens (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) is that, from the POV of people in Normalspace, those in Hyperspace *seem* to be exceeding lightspeed. The trick is that Hyperspace's space-time is so warped that one mile of Hyperspace equals a lot of miles in Realspace. NO, I'm not on drugs, I think I read that somewhere. Or maybe I dreamed it, what the heck. A bit of advice to those of you who will sorely miss B5 and Crusade and find most of TVland unpalatable (like me). Do you want more real, literary speculative fiction? Go and read something. No, not written-in-a-week-media-tie-ins, real novels and short stories. Read Gene Wolfe, Neil Gaiman, Harlan Ellison, Tanith Lee, Shirley Jackson, Robert Holdstock, Orson Scott Card, etc. Heck, even the Oddyssey, the Illiad, and Beowulf if you can. It will keep your sense of wonder rosy-cheeked and wrinkle-free

  • March 2, 1999, 1:05 a.m. CST

    Guys guys.. cmon

    by Richie

    Enough Voyager and B5 Season 5 bashing, please. I think we all need to face the fact that science fiction tv is different from other types of tv shows, and that of people into any genre of television show, we're the absolutely most pickiest bunch. Why? We have to suspend our disbelief much more than people watching a drama or a sitcom do, and some things don't end up looking as good as they could've, and we pounce on it. If fans of the sitcom genre were picky, would shows like DiResta still be on the air? no.. they just wanna relax their brain a bit (don't flame me because I think DiResta is brainless crap), while we are looking for a cool space battle or something totally outlandish. So we shouldn't knock on eachother's shows. I know a lot of ST fans who won't watch B5 because they feel its a soap opera and B5 fans who won't watch ST franchise shows for the same reason. So, all we can do is thank dog or whatever we believe in that there is some science fiction on tv.. after all, its not the genre that pulls in the big ratings.. would B5 have fared very well against something like NYPD Blue? There's probably 8000x more NYPD fans than B5 fans. So we have to face the fact that there is very little sci-fi on tv. Anyhow, the point i'm trying to make is, comparing B5 and Voyager,DS9,TNG is like comparing apples and oranges, because B5 is basically a novel for tv whilst ST shows are fantasy/adventure set against a backdrop of a space station/spaceship far from home, etc. So please..please stop bitching at eachother. and just love SCI-FI in all its forms, mmmkay? rich

  • March 2, 1999, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Talk to TNT!

    by L'Neya

    I suggest everyone go to TNT's B5 site and write them a comment--the more support, the better, you know. BTW, I can't understand this bashing of other scifi shows, either. Having grown up on original ST, I still love most any and all scifi for what each offers. Let's do be grateful for what we have.

  • March 2, 1999, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Talk to TNT!

    by L'Neya

    I suggest everyone go to TNT's B5 site and write them a comment--the more support, the better, you know. BTW, I can't understand this bashing of other scifi shows, either. Having grown up on original ST, I still love most any and all scifi for what each offers. Let's do be grateful for what we have.

  • March 2, 1999, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Judos to the last few posts

    by TheGut

    B5 and ST are indeed 2 VERY different shows. One was set to be a novel on TV, the other a series of 44 minutes space adventures. Sci-Fi is only a broad umbrella, like so many other TV genres, that has various levels. I loved B5, and have been crushed at its cancellation. I still watch ST and STNG reruns, if convenient. ST:DS9 is ok if its a new one. And Voyager... well, ick. Comparing the two just doesn't work

  • March 2, 1999, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Holy LORD...

    by Rhadamanthys

    My God people. I was reading down through the msgs when I got about half way through and just had to quit. The bashing between the "Trekkies" and the B5 fans is just... well, not mature. For the love of God people, it's TV! People like what they like and that's it. The fact that everyone has to argue over which show is best is just ridiculous. Just enjoy what you want, and respect others for enjoying what they enjoy, even if what they enjoy is not what you enjoy. Or something. As far as Crusade goes, I'm just happy that we will get to see the 13 episodes. After all, it's better than seeing NONE. And, I am confident that Crusade will be a hit, and that we WILL see a second season somewhere. (Oh Kosh, where are thee when you are needed?)

  • March 4, 1999, 3:12 a.m. CST

    Warning: Big Words Below!!

    by Sparafucile

    Ah yes. Of course, great advice there from Rhadamanthys. When a great show has to fight tooth and nail against tight fisted anally retentive T.V. executives, not to mention hordes of artistically challenged geeks, who are all too willing to shoot their metal mouths off at something they have absolutely no hope of ever understanding, Babylon 5 fans should sit back and accept the status quo. We shouldn't complain or raise our voices in protest, instead we should sit back and allow our beloved program to be hacked and slashed behind the scenes by the 20 per cent of humanity with room temperature I.Q's. And don't you just love the in-betweeners? The people who love to jump in the middle of Trek vs Babylon 5 (read here: Good vs Evil) wars and try to maintain peace and good will in their shrill pre-pubescent voices. These people love to love both Trek and B5. In actual fact they are a race of people with overhanging sloping foreheads who are, believe it or not, even worse in my opinion than Trekkies. They watch both Trek and Babylon 5 and can't do a enough of a comparison to realise that one is God and the other is [obscenity deleted]. Shouldn't evolution have weeded these people out millenia ago? Maybe they were and this sad state of affairs is the result of massive inbreeding... Hmm maybe there's a correlation between the number of trekkies and population growth in Southern America. I'll have to look up the figures... Anyway, that's all i have to say. I'm sorry to all the trekkies and poseurs who read this and have to look up all the big words. I promise i'll get the monosyllabic version out soon.

  • July 7, 2006, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Turn on the AC. Lots of hot air there.

    by Wolfpack