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The First Look At David Fincher's THE FIGHT CLUB!!!
Well, folks... prepare to be excited. Sounds like THE FIGHT CLUB is the real deal. Ok, sure... we've only heard from one person... but from listening to this review... seeing a shared opinion (Seven- magnificient, GAME-pretty darn good, ALIEN 3- no comment, and Wallflowers video - brilliant) and then hearing him give the extreme roughcut of this film a 9 out of 10... Well, it's got my expectations raised pretty darn high... There are spoilers, but absolutely nothing like say talking about the box in SEVEN, or the fall in THE GAME. It's spoilers concerning the set up. With Ed Norton in this film I'm dying to see it. I'm a Big Ed Norton fan. Here we go with Captain Smirk...
I've relocated to LA since last we spoke and am happy an eager
to bring you this 'industry' news. (By the way, if I wasn't in the
middle of financial/relocation turmoil, I would have sent you that much
needed Ferrari so you can strut your Geek ass in style (restitution for
the happiness your website gives me))
Anyway, the film that I saw a rough cut of was Fight Club.
I was invited with a group of industry friends to see David Fincher's
newest masterpiece: Fight Club, a week ago at a test screening. Now, I'm
trying to be objective here since I really dig Fincher's direction and
vision (I'm very glad that he isn't making films with Michael
'Anti-Christ-of-Film' Bay.), although he is one of my all time favorite
directors. Just to let you know where I stand: Seven - Masterpiece. The
Game - Excellent (though decidedly not as great as Seven). Alien 3 -
well, we don't have to go there. Wallfowers video - brilliant.
This film will definetly compound the stardom of Brad Pitt and Edward
Norton, the two stars. Brad gives more then a token performance as Tyler
Durden(I did hear on E! a while ago that he was going to have his teeth
surgically altered for the film) along the lines of a Twelve
Monkeys/Seven hybrid. Edward Norton, who plays the main narrator
character, is proving himself to be the most recent acting goldmine. The
film also stars Helena Bonham Carter (spelling?) as the love
interest/sadio masochistic manic depressive slut, Marla. Her performance
is one of her strongest ever. There is also a surprising performance by
Meatloaf as well. (yes, I said Meatloaf)
Well, here goes (spoilers below):
Fight Club follows the life of the central character (Norton) and his
battle of normalcy and himself. As it begins, his life is that of a
proto-abnormal depressed, sterile, passionless, insomniac. Odd things
keep happening in his life; he meets a character named Tyler Durden
(Pitt) who appears to be this rugged free-to-choose-his-own-destiny guy,
soon after his apartment explodes. Go figure. He also attends meetings
of those who are terminal cancer patients so he can feel their sadness.
He starts to hang out with Tyler more and more getting wrapped up in
Tyler's philosophies of life: pain is truth, the only truth. What begins
as a fight between two friends to 'feel the pain' spreads into an
underground movement. Soon people everywhere are joining Fight Club: an
ultra secret (the first rule about Fight Club is that you can't talk
about Fight Club), ultra violent (The fight goes until you can't fight
any longer) and ultra ultra secret (did I mention that? The second rule
of Fight Club is that you can't talk about Fight Club).
The plot is actually so twisted and difficult to explain that without
the primer (what you learn at the very end is very important but it
would be like giving away the ending to Seven) I would have to rewrite
the script word for word.
The direction is solid and awesome. There was a temp track which was
also pretty solid. I'm dying to see this film again when it is edited
properly (I know there is a book called Fight Club that this was based
on but I suspect it is quite different). I didn't find out the release
date but I did find out that Fincher's next project will not be Star
Wars... he's working on Rendezvous With Roma (also based on a book).
Anyway, I give this a 9 out of 10 and that's without it even being
complete.
Well that's all for now, but I'll be back with some more news.
-captain smirk
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But fun no less....i have read that book and the screenplay for both of these...there actually not that different....the book was pretty strange...it doesn't just fall under the catergory of fights happenig....there is a lot more to it than just that...i think this film is gonna be what a clockwork orange was to the 60's
...very ahead of its time...i am really looking forward to this one. -
I seriously think I'm the only person on the face of the planet who thought that ALIEN 3 was a pretty bad ass flick (mostly in part because Fincher's direction was so inspired). Yeah, the screenplay was kind of a mess, but I heard the original cut was a hell of a lot better than the shitty studio version. I also think I'm the only person who was let down by Fincher's direction in THE GAME. I thought the cinematography could've been crisper and the lighting seemed a tad muddled. I think the last time Brad appeared in a picture that grossed over 100 mil it was SE7EN.
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sounds like a big rip off of the amazing japanese film, "toyko fist," by the filmmaker who made "tetsuo:iron man." if you can get your hands on that one, do so immediately. but, alas, of course, i'm doomed to see this thing anyway just for the visuals. too bad lucas is directing the rest of the other SW prequels, because fincher really would do a fantastic job.
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I have also read the novel (but not the screenplay), and I must say that it sounds exactly like the book. This material is right up Fincher's alley, and Bonham Carter IS Marla. I am soooo excited to see the rapport between Pitt/Norton (Tyler/Narrator). Watch out for this film.
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I am definitely looking forward to this. I like Pitt in weird roles. Everyone's always saying he sucked in 7Monkeys, but I love that manic-blubbering-warped-logic, even if it wasn't a great performance. My friends and I always scream at each other, "GET OUT OF MY CHAIR!" anytime we get the chance. Every time I see that, I piss myself laughing.
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The Director of Tokto Fist and Tetsuo: The Iron Man is Shinya Tsukamoto. He also directed Tetsuo II: Body Hammer, Hiruko, Bullet Ballet, and lots of others. He is sort of like the Japanese David Lynch (not a rip off, just along the same lines)
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I know there is a small following of Alien 3 affecionados, but I just had to say how disappointed I was with this movie. From start to finish, it was as unfaithful to the series as possible. We wanted Aliens vs. Predator. We got an adaptation of Ridley Scott's Alien.
As for Seven. Its really dark. Its really disgusting. Someone must have put a lot of thought into seeing how badly a person can be tortured. Fincher's direction of this movie, with what little I know about directing a movie, was superb. He made me more sick and frightened than most directors could.
Concerning the Game..Michael Douglas' character didn't seem like the type to be tricked into diving off a building and then being thankful for it.
Those are my not so humble opinions, so just deal with it. -
just for the record, though I'm pretty sure most of you new this, I'm doing it for my own sanity. A Clockwork Orange was made in 1971, and for some truly bizzare reason lost the best picture, best director, and best adapted screenplay to the French Connection, tell me people is there any freakin' justice
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People often seem to blame David Fincher for flushing the "Alien" series but it's really the script (and Sigourny Weaver's unfortunate insistance on having some creative input) that sunk the film. Frankly I think he kept the film from being a total failure by using that stark, almost putrid visual mood he's now famous for. Yeah the story sucked (you CAN'T do an evil alien movie without using firearms!!!) but the atmosphere he presented in that prison was brilliant. Seven and The game were both great films that finally showed what he can do with a good script and teaming him with Ed Norton should amost guarantee a good flick. On a final note, how about getting this guy to direct a Batman 5? Imagine what his direction can do for Gotham. Then have the one villan be the Scarecrow. *drool* But that's just my little fantasy...
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I truly believe that David Fincher is one of (if not THE) most underrated film directors of the nineties. Okay, the plot to Alien 3 was a little off, but the direction was beautiful. Who can honestly say the ending didn't make you a little said? Se7en. No point in commenting on it's genius. As for The Game, do the naysayers actually realize the main point of the film was to prevent Micahel Douglas' character from committing suicide? Anyways, I bought Fight Club as soon as I heard Fincher was attached and it has since become probably my all time favorite novel. I read the screenplay and was disapointed by the different ending. I have heard that Fincher wanted to go back to the book's endinng. Does anyone have any info? Thank you. "Project Mayhem" will live on this summer!
ryan -
This naysayer happens to believe that the Game is an interesting idea and again, Fincher did a great job with the direction of it, however, the character's actions don't seem to be consistent. Obviously, his token from CRS is that he'll cheer up a bit and hopefully not kill himself by learning to "annihilate" his pride and his checked emotions. But in keeping with how Michael Douglas' character got increasingly angry at the game's unusual loops, I would think he'd be EXTREMELY pissed if they tricked him into jumping off a building. If it was me personally, I would have broken that bottle of champagne over Sean Penn's head, but I guess that's me. I probably would have gotten a scenario that forced me to read Episode 1 fan sites and X-Men casting rumors until I hung myself with bungie cord disguised as nylon. But that's just me.
The ending of THE Game is about like taking someone who doesn't like surprise birthday parties and throwing them into the mother of all surprise social shockers and expecting him to like it.
So take that! -
1) Never had a problem with ALIEN3, but I saw it the day my girlfriend dumped me, and boy was I ready for something thoroughly depressing (sidenote: never watch TAXI DRIVER in such a mindset.) 2) I read the novel, FIGHT CLUB, and keep it around just in case I ever run out of toilet paper. In all seriousness, though, if anybody can make this work, it's Fincher. Like LaneMeyers, I enjoy his attempts at pulling off the cathartic event, even though he's never connected with me (out of all the things they could've done at the end of SEVEN, the least interesting was the tired, old, head-in-the-box finale,) and am ready to see if he can make it work this time. Who knows? Spieberg found high adventure in Peter Benchley's ultimately trashy JAWS. Coppola found art in Puzo's THE GODFATHER. Stranger things have happened.....
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I think that Alien 3 was one of the best films in the series because it cleaned the slate for all future sequels. If the executives had been smart, they would have made Alien four take place on earth or make Aliens vs. Predator like everyone wanted. The biggest problem with them is that they are too afraid to deviate from the old dark corridor formula. If FOX wants to get the franchise back on to the road of success, they need to hire either Cameron or Verhoven to make the next sequel and get rid of the Ripley character. How much bad luck can person have?
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C'mon....admittedly, The Game was good...but!! Ah yes, this is where I say what went wrong....for a so-called intelligent movie I wanna how in the hell anybody could have known exactly where Michael Douglas was gonna leap off the edge so they could put an air mattress....that's all....
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I don't know what mrbeaks is talking about. Fight Club, the novel, is amazing. The way the author (Chuck Paluhaniak) plays with language is amazing. It makes the whole book a mind fuck. If the movie even comes close to the book it will be the best movie of '99 by far. Also I have read a lot of books and it is in my top few I have ever read, with The Great Gatsby and Slaughterhouse Five, and a couple others.
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What I don't think many people caught about "The Game" was just how much its plot owed to Greek and Shakespearean drama: we have a flawed, prideful man doomed for a fall that will teach him, in the end, the error of his former ways and a new appreciation for what remains of his life. Think of Michael Douglas' character as a modern-day Oedipus or Creon and you get the idea. In the old dramas, the action was engineered by the Gods or by fate--so Fincher updated the story by replacing the gods with CRS...omnipotent religion with omniscient science. "The Game"'s really got more emotion behind it than is apparent at first glance, and IMO it's less pretentiously stylistic than "Se7en"--also a plus.
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What is it with Brad Pitt and films with Numbers in the titles? I can only think of 3 films that arn't sequels, with a number in the title, and they all star Brad Pitt. 7, 7 years in Tibet, and 12 Monkeys. Why? Is he learning to count and needs the practise?
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OK, right now only David Fincher (and maybe Alex Proyas) can actually DO Rendevous With Rama, one of the Arthur C. Clarke Holy Trilogy- 2001, RWR, and Childhood's End. Three of the best books in the genre- one is a movie you might have heard of. Rama is a mood- a place of phantoms- this is going to be COOL.
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Much attention should be paid to anyone who thought SEVEN was a masterpeice. "About Face!" Thanks for the built in idiot test. You just saved me eight bucks.
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WAR GOD, with all due respect, and Clockwork is certainly a great film, The French Connection, for it's time was both stylistically and dramatically a cinematic breakthrough. Take another look. Any other year and Clockwork wins it.
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Best Fincher quote I ever heard.
Studio exec talking to Fincher about ALIENS3; "Why should I give you 40 million dollars to make your first movie? You're a shoe salesman."(nike)
Fincher; "You're right. What would you do with a 40 minute movie anyway?" -
Best Fincher quote I ever heard.
Studio exec talking to Fincher about ALIENS3; "Why should I give you 40 million dollars to make your first movie? You're a shoe salesman."(nike)
Fincher; "You're right. What would you do with a 40 minute movie anyway?" -
in my stupid blurb above, I wrote 7Monkeys instead of 12. I would like to blame it on all the discussion about Se7en and the fact that a large number of his movies have digits in the title, and OBVIOUSLY not any fault of mine what-so-ever. (Well,that's my rationale and I'm sticking to it.)Well gotta go, I have a milk run over Italy to make.:)
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While I liked THE GAME, I found it slightly flawed, particularly at the end. After driving a man to the point where he believes he has committed murder and subsequently attempts suicide, I can't believe he'd be able to shrug it off two minutes later and kick back with a beer. Relief aside, I'm not sure anyone could recover that quickly from such an intense mindfuck. (Sorry; I searched for a better word, but that one seemed to fit the bill.) Then again, maybe it was Michael Douglas' acting; he didn't seem quite able to handle that difficult a character transformation. I much preferred the ending of SE7EN, where the mindfuck pushed the characters past their limits, and there was no saving them.
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Se7en shocked me. Even gave me the chills. I'm not an easy scare, but Se7en scared the hell outta me. I'm sure that had something to do with the HUGE screen in front of me, but that's not the point. The point is we have a young Hitchcock on our hands. This guy is brilliant. Se7en was just so.... involving. Dark, gritty and disgusting. And that ending... WOW! Fincher proved that you don't need a happy ending to make a great film. And I can't wait for Fight Club. Pitt and Norton under David's careful, crafty direction.... OVERLOAD! OVERLOAD! OVERLOAD!
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Everyone agrees that Seven was a great movie, brilliant...but how about giving credit where credit is due, If he didn't have Walker's script he would still be shooting sneaker commercials after the Alien 3 fiasco.
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Does Fincher have any plans to direct Elroy's 'The Black Dalia'?
That would be a great movie. -
Oh, am I going to get in trouble for this one: David Fincher is way overrated as a director! There I've said it, I wouldn't take it back. His vision of the apocalyptic future (Aliens 3), of suburban hell (Seven), and his take on the Greek tragedies (The Game) are beautiful to look at but not much substance so perhaps we should be giving credit to him for great visual style and credit to his excellent cinematograpers for bringing it to the screen but not for being the next Hitchcock. There is a great difference between a brilliant director and someone with great visual style. Hitchcock was brilliant (character work, great story telling, beautiful to look at) while Fincher has great visual style like many "great" directors of today (Proyas, Singer, Burton etc.)
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For me, the Game was also very much about predestination (relating to how God or other higher powers have a path already laid out for us. Our wills are not our own) and how our paths are predetermined. I'm sure I'm way in the minority on that one. I think Alex Proyas is one of the absolute worst directors I have ever seen - Dark City was so choppy, uneven and just plain ridiculous that I regard the Crow as a fluke of the highest order. Another big disappointment is Andrew kevin Walker who tries to duplicate his Se7en material on 8mm. Nic Cage was okay, but the film was never terribly convincing and the actual snuff film footage didn't seem terribly disturbing - I was bored. I am trying to find a copy of Rendezvous with Rama to prepare for more of Fincher's good stuff. I did that with Fight Club and it is a fantastic novel. And for those who don't think Fincher makes films of substance - give me an utter break.
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ALIEN 3 ROCKED,THE GAME ROCKED,SE7EN(I HAVE SEEN IT A 1OOO,OOO TIMES)ROCKED.THE FIGHT CLUB WILL ROCK.IN SHORT DAVID FINCHER ROCKS.I'M IRISH,NOT AMERICAN OR BRITTISH SO CLEARLY I'M NOT AN IDIOT.
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O.K...maybe some of you guys aren't familiar with the backgroud of this film, so you're unnecessarily hard on it. Personally, my feeling is that it's a good film, but a terrible Alien film. Anyway, Fincher was brought on board this train wreck after 12 scripts were boiled down into one (half of which didn't even have Ripley...remember Weaver was saying no at first, and then "only if I die") and filming had already started. For some reason I can't remember who the original director was, but he had already spent over $30 mil on pre-production stuff. Fincher just happened to be available so they put him, at the helm rather than sending everyone home. He tried to fix the script as he was shooting, only to have the studio dictate their own changes as well. Then with three weeks of -SCHEDULED- shooting to go, the studio said "you've got a week; then just give us what you've got." He tried to cover what he could and basically did what Fox told him to (as would you if you were a first time director helming a $60 mil franchise pic). He was almost shut out of the editing room. Then after he thought everything was finished, the studio re-edited without his knowledge. What came out was to me one of the moodiest, darkest films I'd ever seen. It had a lot of balls - killing off a character who was becoming a love interest half way through. But it was about as far from the film Alien fans wanted to see as it could be.
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I loved Alien 3. The franchise as a whole is great, although Resurrection is easily the worst in the series. The setup in ALien3 pissed me off with Hicks and Newt dying off camera, but the rest of the movie is great. The visuals and setting is stunning and the effects were much more graphic and "real" this time around. The CGI "dog alien" was awesome and moved with a ferociousness not seen in the series. Charles S. Dutton was excellent and Weaver was great as Ripley yet again. This is the movie I first noticed Fincher on, and it made Se7en and The Game just that much better. He rocks. Let's hope he does the Spawn sequel.
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To all those who say I hate everything: David Fincher kicks ass. He is the second most exciting new director of the decade behinf Tarantino. He has yet to make a bad film. Alien 3 was beautifully directed and since it was his debut, Ill bet that the studio fucked it up since they had no confidence in him. Seven just ruled (d'uh). The Game, while I found it muddled and implausible, was more interesting than 99% of Hollywood movies. Ill see The Fight Club opening night.
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Fincher is really tallented but sort of a smartypants. He seems to be showing off his talent and showing off how sick he is (not unlike many a techno musician). There is no denying his power and his skill as a director, but he has yet to learn restraint, at least from a storytelling point of view. He could be remembered as an icon of 90s eccess rather than a hitchcockian god O' film.
Though no matter what, I still want to defend the guy.
"The Game" was like a twilight zone sorta thing, a myth...apply pure logic to it and it falls apart, but that's not the point. An interesting if imperfect film.
I think the fact that the M Douglas character is NOT horrified and pissed at the end actually adds to the film...it's like a high-concept version of the cheap 80s slasher "April Fools' Day" where it turns out (spoiler) that all the murders were a joke perpetrated against the last two "survivors" by all ten or so "victims". And at the big "ha-ha, just kidding" ending...everyone thinks it's just hillarious!!! ("Ha! I thought that was really my best friend's severed head! Wotta riot!" etc.) This was either bad character development, or the filmakers are winking at us..."Hey? Isn't this sick?" and either way this reaction made a dull formula film (and a dull trick ending for that matter) a little more interesting. I think there may have been an element of that twisted emotional logic to "The Game". (I could be mistakenly giving both films the benefit of the doubt though).
Se7en was gloriously realized bad taste...a film that just dares you to dismiss it, but it won't go away.
Alien3 was like an potentially A+ term paper that needed an extension of like six months to come to fruition. Instead, it was all wrapped up at the last minute in one sleepless night, drenched in bad coffee, and slipped under the professor's office door for a resounding C minus. But the lost potential and incredible raw talent is written all over it...ah, sigh.
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I loved the concept, but the execution was implausible at best. Once the game is revealed, you can locate so many ridiculous and escalating events (capped off by the plainly impossible swan dive through breakaway glass into a perfectly placed cushion).
IMO, the key to making it a successful film would have been to make it HIGHLY believeable. As it stands, it's so filled with technical glitches it cannot suspend disbelief. -
I agree that Fincher's films are a lot like Twilight Zone episodes. The body of the story is there to set you up for a twisted ending. Who could say anything negative about the T'Zone, except that they never made any movies that were any good out of any ONE twilight Zone episode because who wants to go pay eight bucks for a twenty six minute movie. See my point? They were great short films. The problem I have with both Seven and The Game is that the endings, though twisted and unpredictable (debateable) aren't worthy of ninety minutes of setup time if that's all they are. I think Fincher will go down in History as a great commercial director who's brilliant visuals were used as a crutch to hold up weak stories. I hope some day Mr. Fincher realizes that, to quote an old friend,
" The idea is to move the audience... not the camera." -
it needed Michael Biehn and (to a lesser extent) Newt. It would have kicked ass to have Biehn rigging up some kick-ass space marine tactics and intimidating the prisoners. That was the Alien^3 i was hoping for, even if he was to die later in the movie. It was just really pussed-out that the Alien takes him down in the cryo-crib. The only reason I wanted Newt was because it would have given some continuuity to the story, they spent all that time devoloping a mother-daughter bond with Ripley in Aliens to just erase her from the story. But I guess they felt that would get in the way of the whole Ripley's-fate-woven-in-with-the-Alien's schtick. That was the Alien3 I wanted, a continuation, not a fresh start. Alas, it was not to be. PS long live Michael Biehn!
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Se7en cannot be dismissed as merely exploitive and tasteless as some of the posters here suggest. Nor is it nothing more than a finally crafted popcorn movie thriller. After repeated viewings, I see it as a modern fable. There is no reason to believe that the film takes place in our reality. Everything in the movie exists as support of the theme: It rains the first 6 days, until the sun drenched seventh, The film takes place in a nameless, urban nightmare of a city that could be New York, LA, or any other city for that matter. Nothing really roots the story in one particular time, anytime after 1990 seems to fit. The whole movie is building on the theme of the loss of value and morals in our decadent society. The killer believes he is doing God's work by fulfilling the punishments for the 7 deadly sins. But we have gone so far from such archaic beliefs that he is seen as a monster, though he sees himself as a hero. The final sin of the 7 is the worst of all, Mills must choose between destroying the man that killed his wife and child, or letting him live and not commit the sin of Wrath. The entire film hinges on that decision, if he gives in the world is truly damned and a horrible place, if he resists then there is still hope. What does he do? He kills him, point blank, with everyone watching. He does what nearly EVERY one of us would have done. I know I wanted him to empty his clip into Doe's head and then reload and empty THAT clip as well. The movie built up tension so much that you could feel Mill's rage and loss and that made it more real. It wasn't just him pulling the trigger, it was also us as viewers. That's what made it so disturbing and brilliant.
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Biehn does rule, though he has a hard time living through movies. But he does rule
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Hey Jack, I agree with everything you said about Seven being a fable. It was in fact setup quite well that way by the writer. But a fable must have a payoff that causes one to experience or learn something that they might not have previously known. Now if you think that killing Doe out of rage or revenge is something that is somehow enlightening or out of the ordinary I would have to say you haven't been watching the news lately... ever maybe. That was the average thing to do. What's the point of being led down a dark alley that looks dangerous, feels dangerous and obviously is dangerous if all you get is knifed in the back. I felt like a fool at the end of the flick. Tell me you didn't see it coming. I had a meeting with someone who was involved with that script early on and he told me something very interesting. The end of the film was supposed to go like this. Mills knows that if he kills Doe he becomes a pawn and Doe wins. Freeman's character, through out the film, (in this previous draft) had prided himself on having never killed anyone. Never taken another life. When Mills is going to kill Doe, Freeman's character (wish I could remember his name) shoots Doe instead and in doing so saves Mills soul, foils the bad guy and in a sense jumps on the grenade, finishing the final act of a true hero. Personally I think Fincher fucked it up, but that's just my opinion. What do you think?
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Ok, I love Greek drama and religous allusion as much as the next guy, but my rational side demands to know how CRS could know exactly where Michael Douglas was going to jump. I'm sure there are other flaws in this flick, but I enjoyed the movie enough to overlook them. This is the only one that really bothers me. If anyone can explain it, the next drink is on me. C'mon. LaneMeyers, I'm sure you can do it.
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Rationally there is no way that CRS could have done half the stuff they did in that movie. The assumption is that they know EVERYTHING about Van Orton and EXACTLY how he will behave in any situation. This is of course impossible and unbeleivable right there. The airbag thing is the most dramatic example, but everything leading up to it is just as crazy. So CRS therefore becomes an example of that all-powerful corporate villian "force", the proverbial Orwellian "them" that know all and see all. (What if SPECTRE went into the self help business?). It's true that the movie is not believable but I think it was trying to be a dark fantasy in general to begin with. Though I agree with you that CRS is way too omniscient for a movie set more or less in "our reality". If they had made the world a bit more dreamlike and less like a totally realistic-on-the-surface world it might have worked a little better.
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Thanks. I guess I should just accept the fact that the whole film is somewhat unbelievable, making it an otherwoldly fable. It's just that one of the things that made Seven work for me was that it actually made me believe that someone like John Doe could exist. I guess I should just be glad that an entertaining and somewhat artistic movie actually came out of hollywood. Anyway, with the talent involved, The Fight Club looks quite promising. Any word on a release date?
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Warning: Spoilers for Seven and The Usual Suspects below, in case you haven't seen them....
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The problem with Seven was that it hinged its d'enouement on the main characters not doing something that would be commonplace if the situation occurred in real-life.
As soon as the police found the pictures of Brad Pitt's character in the killer's tub, they and all their superiors who found out about it would have had 24 hour surveillance on Pitt's family (and probably on Pitt himself).
When I first went to see the film, and saw that scene play out, the first thing that occurred to me would be to put surveillance teams on Pitt's family. I practically yelled it out at the screen. It was sheer torture to watch them play through the rest of the movie and not deal with that situation in a realistic way. And I knew it had to be for a reason (rarely do unrealistic events occur in a movie unless they're in furtherance of a weak plotline).
Then the ending came, and I realized that the entire last scene depended on this oversight, and the film was ruined. When writers and directors take the easy way out, the result might as well end up in the trash.
Another great example of a smart movie that ended up shooting itself in the foot was The Usual Suspects. If you recall the first scene in the movie, we witness a murder from the perspective of someone behind a pile of ropes on the deck of a docked ship. Someone must be back there to witness it. We soon find out that the witness is Kevin Spacey's character, and he tells the backstory that leads up to the murder we saw at the beginning. Only thing is, that first scene was only there as sleight-of-hand to deflect the audience's suspicions away from the true killer, and in fact there was no one behind the pile of ropes. It had no real raison d'etre except faking the audience out, and I ended up feeling conned. They could have left that scene out, or simply changed the perspective, and solved the problem. It was an intentional deception and it cheapened the film.
I'd like to know how these deficiencies can pass by so many people during production and still be around in the final product. What are they thinking? -
Yeah, you heard it here, you morons! David Fincher sucks! He's a fucking hack who continually gets lauded as one the finest directors working! Maybe when my asshole learns to chew gum! Fuck him! He killed the Alien franchise along with that fuckhead that did part 4. Seven fucking sucked!!! The Game fucking sucked!! David Fincher sucks!!!! HES A HACK!!!!!!! Fight Club is gonna suck!!!!!!!! Brad Pitt sucks!!!! Edward Norton is great nazi, but he sucks too!!!!!!
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Do you really think we give a shit? You suck! I hate your posts and I hate you! Give it up loser! You're talking just hear yourself type, you fuckrag! Suck a dick and get some sleep and quit posting you mindless, stupid shit!
Better yet, drink some Draino. That would make my fucking day!
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Yes, Lane, in fact Kevin Spacey's character does tell that lie in The Usual Suspects.
But Brian Singer, the director, tells the lie at the beginning (when Kevin Spacey's character is nowhere to be found. He shows us a scene (with a tall character doing the murder, no less) that is utterly false, and we're given no reason to believe it's a lie. The *director* lied. That's what I said before, and I'll say it again. It's the *director* that's misleading the audience. How can we possibly enjoy ourselves when the director's skewing the game so we have no chance of figuring out the mystery ourselves? When the director has, through *false* scenes, given us an entirely different idea of who the killer could be?
It's one thing for a character to be deceitful, and another for the director to be deceitful. And The Usual Suspects could have been much better had the director been honest. -
Thanks Lane. I knew i could count on you for a somewhat reasoned response but i think i'll stick with the otherworldy fable routine. It's just easier to buy into. Damn. It's worth coming here just to see people's responses to your posts. fucking hilarious. wow. i just realized it's 2 in the morning. why am i coming here after a night on the town? what a geek.
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Yes!!!!!!!!!And don't call me, I'll call you!!!
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The trouble with Finchers films is they always rely on some huge twisted suprise ending, which makes for a great first time viewing, but when you see the same film again, it's not even 1/3 as interesting. Someone should let him know...
And to you lunatics that give Myers all that shit - I don't get it, I mean how many times can you say "suck" in the same sentence?...The guy is just talking about film. If you want someone to e-mail insults to, then go for Jeffery Wells. He knows nothing and writes about films for a fucking living - he's your bad guy. -
I'm a movie/music video freak so I've had a special interest in Fincher's career. He's obviously a master of dark visuals and precise compositions, but he's also a brilliant manipulator. With elaborate cross-cutting (what I think is his trademark stylistic) and his attention to detail, he manages to create various psychological effects with technique alone. Se7en's in my top ten, but to this day I find the coolest thing about it is the opening credits. The foreshadowing, the relentless, building intensity of that remix of "Closer"(cranked to the digital max in the theatre I was in) and the utterly brilliant design gave me the most exhilarating 3 minutes since the climax of Star Wars when I was 4. I was blown away in the first 10 minutes. As for Alien3, well further up on my top ten is that kick-ass, ultra visceral classic called Aliens and when Hicks and Newt were rudely dispatched, in the first 10 minutes, I was ready to kill this ruiner named David Fincher. Whether the flick was his deadly sin or not, he atoned for it with Se7en.
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I happen to know for a fact that there haven't been any "test screenings" of this movie. Project Mayhem will find you.
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Could you please inform me as to how you know that there have been no test screenings? This would be a real let down, as I have been patiently waiting for info on this film. TOOBONUS you sound like you have knowledge of either the novel or screenplay by your Project Mayhem quote, so please reveal for my sanity's sake. "Everything's going according to plan. Mr. Durden"
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At the end of The Game there are a few brief exchanges that would answer some of the questions you guys posted. An example of one is when Sean Penn hands the bill to Micheal Douglass who ends up paying for it. And there was a brief mention of a contigency plan if he jumped off another part of the building. And am I the only one curious about what Sean Penn's character's game was?
As far as Alien3 is concerned it was a flawed but enjoyable attempt to return to the feel and premise of the original Alien film. Alien was not about grand sci fi posturing and how the heros were cool and how tough they were, it was a horror movie that had an evil alien parasite instead of a slasher or vampire. And, unlike the lobotomized Aliens, Alien3 tried to tap into that. Alien and Alien3 were about the feeling of being trapped defenseless with something far more powerful and viscious than yourself, whereas Aliens was a phallic men-with-big-guns-kick-a** movie.
And by the way, LaneMyers, I don't hate you and I use Hotmail. -
>Aliens was a phallic
>men-with-big-guns-kick-a** movie
Uh, no. All along, Aliens undercuts exactly the impulse you accuse it of celebrating. In fact, the finale is female only (The closest thing to a man involved is an android with everything below the waist ripped off, an emasculated machine!).
And also, just for the record, Seven was weak. Not scary, not surprising, not internally consistent (not 7 murders for 7 sins; sloth is still alive at the end), and worst of all, BORING. The only part that approached interesting was the conversation in the car at the end, a pale imitation of the encounters between Starling and Lecter. -
First off- fincher is a very good director...thats a fact. You can't dispute it...any complaints about say Alien3 script or how sucky the story was has nothing to do with directing....that problem is a combination of the screenwritters and studio's fault. It's well known that fincher had zero control or clout on Alien3- he got railroaded by the studio and there wasnt anything he could do about it. But as Roger Ebert said.."It was the best looking bad movie he had ever seen."
What exactly makes a good or great director?
If fincher had been the screenwritter of Alien3 then you could rip him for a weak script with tons of holes in it...but he wasn't so get a clue and stop blaming him for "ruining the franchise etc"
The fact is..there really wasnt alot of original ideas for a alien3
Yeh the could have had aliens on earth...but what type of film do u want..u can't do a small group of people fighting a lone alien....and you can't do a balls to the wall action flick which is what Aliens was...ASliens vs. Predator would have been nothing more than a comic book movie....
It's been said that Fincher fought to have a eraly draft of Alien3..or a different version..i forgot who wrote it
In which Ripley crashed on a "wooden planet/monestary..something like that.....where there are only unarmed monks..who end up believing that the alien is in fact the devil come to earth to take their souls...that might have been more original..but what came out on screen was very well directed by fincher..and thats all you could have asked of him.
Seven is a brilliant film...it's visually stunning and beautifully directed. Fincher and Walker should get all the credit on this one --every loser says..oh i knew it was her head in the box..and stupid shit like that..well half those people didnt actually know right away what it was..but its not that hard to figure it out..that wasnt the point though..it wasnt supposed to be a big mystery..it simply was there as a way to creat the ending..and the tension between Somerset, Mills, and John Doe at the end..
And yes there is a moral to the story..its Somerset's last words...The world is fucked up! ...but it's worth fighting for.
I like that better than Walker's original one...were Somerset gets a letter from Mills which says..You were right..about everything.
Basically meaning ..he lost..and the bad guys won. stop nitpicking The game--its not reality..its a movie!
Fincher always chooses good or interesting scripts with original ideas...and gives us a interesting and engrossing movie with beautiful direction and visuals....thats all any film fan should ask for...
we dont need a world full of joel shumachers and micheal bays
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You just go to hell and you die!!!
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Mentally, Sloth is dead, his brain is mush. Physically, how long does he have if he could die from a light being flashed in his eyes? The car scene tops all Silence of the Lambs encounters and is not an imitation since 3 characters are involved.
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I've heard that Fincher is reteaming with Kevin Spacey for "The Mank", a movie about the writter of "Citizen Cane."
Is there any truth to this? Has anyone heard anything about this project>?
Spacey is one of the best actors, if not the best actor of the 90's. He deserved his Oscar for "The Usual Suspects," great film by the way. I would like to see him reteam with Fincher. Spacey was haunting in "Se7en." Fincher is one of the best young directors. Especially at setting tone and mood. -
Seven places itself firmly, and purposefully, in the Christian worldview, so the binary nature of life is not mind/body, but body/soul. Since no one, in a Christian framework, can destroy a soul, the only measure of life or death is the body. Sloth was fully alive; no murder occured to corrospond to that sin.
Also, ALL the conversations with Lecter are about a minimum of three characters: Lecter, Starling, and Buffalo Bill. -
Update, Update, Update, Update, Update, Update, Update, Update, Update, Update, Update, fucking update!!!
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Fincher is one of my favorite directors I think that Alien 3 is the greatest alien movies. I agree the plot could of been so much better, but the directing made up for the lacking. You got to admit alien 3 was a perfect ending for the series. Fincher kills off 3/4 of the cast in the first min of the movie. By the end everyone dies accepted for a minor character. I mean gezzzzzz, what a great ending. I don't get why every one hates it so much. The games plot was great it was the first movie in a long time to really surprise me. Seven was tragically great too. Fincher is the best thing since Francis Ford Coppalla.
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Anyone who didn't like The Game coz they didn't get it, shouldn't offer their opinions on it as they are meaningless. Your only true criticism can be "I didn't get it" - which is still a valid and very important criticism.
Personally, I got every minute of it and thought it was one of the best films I've ever seen. I think you need to be either truly paranoid or artificially (stoned) to fully appreciate it - at least the first time you watch it (if you can fully appreciate it in one viewing).
Thanx to LaneMyers for making most of my points for me - saves me a whole lot of typing - but, as you say, the most important thing to remember is that EVERYONE is in on it. EVERYTHING is a part of the Game.
CRS really is that powerful - omnipotent. The whole point of that exhaustive application process at the beginning (and David, don't think I missed that BladeRunner reference - "reaction time is a factor" - was there an empathy test in there somewhere?) was that they KNEW HIM. EVERYTHING about him - right down to what he would do on top of that building.
THEY EVEN KNEW HE WOULD BE COOL ABOUT IT WHEN HE DIDN'T END UP DEAD.
Everything that happens to him is orchestrated by CRS - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! They didn't guess where he was going to jump - THEY PUSHED HIM - he was about as pushed into that safety net as you can get without actual physical contact.
I don't know that I can get any more blunt about it. Your problems with this movie are unfounded and caused, not by anything lacking from Fincher's part, but rather your own lacking, and problems you have brought to the movie yourself... -
I'd like to give a big huge thanks to the guy who posted the review of the fight club. I've been waiting for this film forever and i'm glad to hear anything about it. I must say that a big part of what made Seven such a great film was AKW's script. Fincher masterfully took that material and unraveled the story in grand fashion. It was such a shame to go to AKW's recent film 8mm and see Joel"I can't direct my head out of my ass"Schumacher destroy a great script. Fincher is arguably one of the greatest directors working today, because his films are startling and entertaining. Screw all ya'll that rag on Alien3. Granted, the flick won't ever be a part of my collection, but Fincher was trying for something and it almost worked. Alien3 had more artistic value in the opening credits than Aliens had in its whole overbloated two and a half hours. Thanks again for the post. Peace.
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I'll concede the Sloth argument. However, while the Lecter/Starling conversations may all be ABOUT 3 characters, none of the scenes had 3 characters trading dialogue like the car scene. That's how the scene distinguishes itself from SILENCE, and it's one of the reasons why I liked it more than anything in SILENCE.
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Brilliant posts guys! It's nice to read well thought out responses rather than "Suck my dick!" even if I don't fully agree!
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I only conceded the Sloth point because I'm fairly sure the ad campaign mentioned 7 murders for 7 sins. So perhaps it's false advertising, even though he received a fate far, far worse than death. And Sloth's sudden awakening easily provided the biggest shock of the movie. Another very minor thing occured to me. In the car, John Doe says, "So what were you doing? Biding your time? Allowing FIVE innocent people to die until you felt like springing your trap?" Unless he includes Sloth among the dead (which Norton would fiercely object to) the five murders Doe's referring to are Gluttony, Greed, Lust, Pride and Tracy. He's basically telling the detectives and the audience that there's only ONE more victim at that point. It seems kind of unlikely for that to have slipped past the observant Somerset. This in no way affects my opinion of Se7en as a masterpiece however.
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in no way EFFECTS my opinion
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in no way EFFECTS my opinion
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The thing about Fincher and the alien trilogy can be summed up by Sigourney Weavers follow-up film "CopyCat". As you may or may not recall it was released prior to "Se7en". After having worked with the likes of David Ficncher, Sigourney pleaded that her new film be released WAY ealier to find an audience. Since both "Se7en", and "Copycat" dealt with somewhat the same themes. She knew that the reason "Alien3" failed was not because of Fincher but because of Fox. She knew, appreciated , and in a way- feared, that Fincher , If given the kind of freedom he needed, would make an incredible film. Her insight saved "Copycat", and gave Fincher the kind of credo he deserves. The man is a true filmmaking genius of the likes of Lucas and Spielberg. His creativity and knowledge is nearly unsurpassed. Weaver saw it in action , and she would be damned if she had to tackle it head to head. Even when everyone judged him and blamed him for the "Alien3" fiasco. "Fight Club" will not be disapointing
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remember the second rule of fight club
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One of the things that is really getting me interested in this movie is the song that is played during the preview. I've seen the Sixth Sense (phatty movie) twice, and the second time the thing I really looked forward to (other than the incredible ending of Sense) is the song in the Fight Club preview - who the hell does that song?
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Perhaps someone can enlighten me...if the point of John Doe's exercise in forced attrition was to kill off those in society that had been sinners of the 7 deadly sins (himself included, i.e. "I envy you, that was my sin") then what of the last sin that David was himself a sinner of? He was left alive. Did John expect that Mills would really commit suicide afterwards? Was the "masterpeice" completed or not?
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War God spoke of justice. Where was justice when "Pulp Fiction" lost to "Forest Gump"?
On the other subject, ever since I happened to see Pitt in -
I know yer not gonna believe this, but one of my best friends is in Chuck Palahniuk's writing circle (mentioned Fight Club to me at least 6 months ago, though not how big it would be.)
I am incontinent with anticipation!
Yer REALLY not gonna believe this, but I wrote a book you Fight Club aficionados may want to check out.
It's called Blues For Robots and here's where you can read the first third of it online:
http://members.aol.com/evolvertcb/
Until I found out about Chuck P. I thought Blues For Robots was about as subversive as you could get (I've been calling it a literary act of sabotage.)
Tom Buckner
P.S. check out Robert Anton Wilson, a man who deserves to see his work on film, if not a frickin' Nobel.
www.rawilson.com -
i have seen two trailers with different music. the slower one is a song called "where is my mind" by the(legendary)Pixies. apparently the soundtrack comes out on Sept 28th and you can preorder it on amazon.com---cheers
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Listen, the director didn't lie in the opening scene of The Usual Suspects, Verbel Kent(Kevin Spacy) slung a bullshit story to the cop. It was a false flashback used to throw the audience a curve. Remember the only *TRUE* thing that happend was that Kiser Soze (really Verbel Kent) sent Kobyashai (spelling?)to falsely hire 'The Usual Suspects' to wipe out the only person that could correctly identify Soze. ('Soze' in Turkish means 'Verbel.' Cool huh?) Tricking the 'suspects' into thinking there was 90 million dollars worth of dope on the ship kept them in line. The rest was just a lie.
Oh yeah, 'The Game' was brillant and David Fincher is the best! -
Hey heres a question for everyone....aight yall know the part in the beginning of the film where Norton is looking up on different clubs to attend, then they show him going to the different clubs and all, well anyway there is that specific classical music playing in the background. Follow me? My question is what is the name of that song? If any one can help me out that would be stellar. Thanx a lot
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I read your comments on David Fincher and just had to post how I picture you.
Anyone so blind to the extraordinary talent of Fincher can only be categorized as a bitter wannabe. I picture your fat ass sitting in front of your sweat covered computer surround by Ho-Ho wrappers and empty cans of off-brand soda dreaming of a glamourous life in Hollywood that will never be.
Get over you jealousy and admit to yourself that Fincher is the next Kubrick or do us all a favor and stick the working end of a rifle in your mouth and redecorate your doublewide. -
Do you know why Tyler calls Jack an "IKEA"? What does it stand for?
Thanks!
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