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Wingnut and Peter Jackson respond to Bob Shaye's tongue-lashings!!

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here again with the response out of Wingnut about this whole mess that Bob Shaye made when he publicly attacked Peter Jackson today. This is all starting to get into a side of the business that I really hate and AICN rarely covers. I felt comfortable posting the Bob Shaye comments because that seriously affected the future HOBBIT movie. I'm posting this because it's only fair to print Jackson's response, although I don't think he needed to respond. I think Bob Shaye did more damage than good for himself with his comments. Some pretty crazy shit's going down. I had a theory that I posted in the talkback to the previous article and reading the below makes me believe it even more. Someone sued Paramount over COMING TO AMERICA in which the books on that film were opened and audited. That lawsuit resulted in Eddie Murphy, having nothing to do with the lawsuit, getting a crazy amount of money and never having to go to court. The studio was cheating everybody, so they were forced to pay everybody, not just the person who sued. It sounds to me like New Line isn't risking just having to pay Jackson what they owe him, but if the books on all 3 movies are made public, they could owe so many more people money. Or they could have completely fulfilled their contractual obligations to everybody, but then why would they deny access to a contracted party? And why would they do everything they could to make it go away, roll it in with that deal for Jackson to direct HOBBIT? It's looking more and more like New Line cooked the books a bit and shortchanged at least Jackson, if not more we don't know about. The seedy underbelly of Hollywood... I hate dwelling on this stuff, so unless any further comments are directly related to Middle Earth, or a kiss and make-up party happens, this'll be the last I post on this topic. Here's the official statement from Wingnut:

"Our issue with New Line Cinema has only ever been about their refusal to account for financial anomalies that surfaced from a partial audit of The Fellowship of the Ring. Contrary to recent comments made by Bob Shaye, we attempted to discuss the issues raised by the Fellowship audit with New Line for over a year but the studio was and continues to be completely uncooperative. This has compelled us to file a lawsuit to pursue our contractual rights under the law. Nobody likes taking legal action, but the studio left us with no alternative. For over two years, New Line has denied us the ability to audit The Two Towers and The Return of the King, despite repeated requests. Film auditing is a common and straightforward practice within the industry and we don't understand why New Line Cinema has taken this position. In light of these circumstances, I didn't think it was appropriate for me to be involved in New Line Cinema's 40th Anniversary video. I have never discussed this video with any of the cast of The Lord of the Rings. The issues that Bob Shaye has with the cast pre-date this law suit by many years. Fundamentally, our legal action is about holding New Line to it's contractual obligations and promises. It is regrettable that Bob has chosen to make it personal. I have always had the highest respect and affection for Bob and other senior management at New Line and continue to do so."

Readers Talkback
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  • Jan. 10, 2007, 6:57 p.m. CST


    by dregmobile

    Oh my.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 6:58 p.m. CST

    cue ringwearer

    by BadMrWonka

    and his magic elf cloak that protects him from Quint's logic!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Pj continues to be a class act.

    by Zorak5

    This whole ordeal is a shame. It sort of tarnishes the good vibes associated with the making of LOTR.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:01 p.m. CST


    by alb55


  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Oh no.

    by dregmobile

    Second will do. I'm surprised things are reaching this level. I hope it all points to New Line destroying their chances of a Hobbit film. Jackson back in action with the right cast in Hobbit would be a great conclusion to this saga. That and Jackson & Co. getting whatever cash they're due. <br> <br> Now I'm starting to see why Rush Hour 3 took so long to get off the ground.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Well, OBVIOUSLY, Lord Jackson can never, EVER, do wrong

    by TallBoy66

    Its that he's 110% straightforward, classy, and would never, ever, be anything less than forthright and truthfull when it comes to money matters. Its all those GODDAMNED SLEAZY HOLLYWOOD money-grubbing types who sit in their ivory towers, wring their hands gleefully, and count their GIGANTIC PILES OF FUCKING MONEY whilst mockingly laughing the poor, downtrodden, indie-horror roots director. Yep. Its all their fault. Heavens.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:07 p.m. CST

    frak those new line idjits

    by occula

    they are a bunch of suits just like any other company shitting on those who got them where they are. i will never understand why their in-house counsel just didn't settle everything quietly like they're getting paid a million dollars a year to do!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Mo Money, Mo Problems

    by Pound Sand

    And this is probably an obscenely large amount of money here. Quint: you say you hate the seedy underbelly of Hollywood, but really, that's one of the most interesting parts.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Bullshit like this...

    by Zarles every inch of fun out of going to the movies. I'd rather be ringwearer9's dorm roommate for 11,000 years than hear another word of this crap. Yuck.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Bilbo is going to be...

    by James_O'Nasty

    PAUL LYNDE!!! No, that's the Fight Club sequel... Shirley Hemphill for Bilbo! Dead, maybe, but she is sooooo hot!!!!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Fuck Peter Jackson

    by CTU Mole

    He was damned lucky to get this shot. It let him do that Christ awful Kong movie and everything after. He doesn't even have a dollar amount in mind, he's just quibbling about the books. So now because of Hollywood (and Kiwi) egos, everyone loses. <p>It's not like he's the only one who could do The Hobbit. It should have a different tone than LOTR anyway. </p>

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Art vs Money: Final Conflict!

    by Kasch

    I hope New Line seriously fucks up royally. It would be great to Jackson topple "The House That Freddy Built."

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:13 p.m. CST

    PJ is a gentleman.

    by Judge Dredds Dirty Undies

    I'm impressed with how he has handled all this. Bob Shaye is painting himself as an asshole.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Not surprising

    by Nabster

    Studios are infamous for underpaying when it comes to gross points or net points ( also called monkey points ). Even audits can be manipulated, Miramax was notorious for this practice, when the director asked to see an audit, it showed the movie had actually lost a 100 million dollars thus the director was not obliged to any of his net points, but then again Havey Weinstein is probably the worst the industry has to offer.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:16 p.m. CST



    ...That PJ and Wingnut are taking the high ground and not bashing Shaye and New Line, instead expressing "highest respect and affection" opposed to shaye's attacks on PJ and the LOTR actors. If PJ and or WETA isn't attached in some way with The Hobbit, I wont see it in theaters, and will probably only rent it, just as a matter of principle.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:22 p.m. CST

    I just read Shaye's words

    by dregmobile

    And I feel like I should be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he was saying he doesn't and never did care about Jackson's issues: <br> <br> "But to think that I, as a functionary in [a] company that has been around for a long time, but is now owned by a very big conglomerate, would care one bit about trying to cheat the guy, ... he's either had very poor counsel or is completely misinformed and myopic to think that I care whether I give him [anything]." <br> <br> Also, he is saying that Peter Jackson should just shut up and be happy with the money New Line gave him, rather than the actual money he is properly owed. <br> <br> Yeah, I think Shaye shot himself in the foot with those comments. And I'll be sure not to catch whatever that film was he made and is promoting ...

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:28 p.m. CST

    So... Hollywood execs are like Denethor!

    by white owl

    And like Denethor they will all BURN TO THE GROUND.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:33 p.m. CST


    by Aragorn II

    Now I feel like I fit in.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:33 p.m. CST

    I wonder if studio plants will flood this TB too?

    by where_are_quints_hobbit_set_reports

    Names I've never seen before criticizing Jackson... fuck you & your paymasters.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:33 p.m. CST

    It's clear who is in the wrong here.

    by Judge Dredds Dirty Undies

    And I'm sure PJ is more bothered about the principle than the actual money.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:37 p.m. CST

    Ain't It the National Enquirer?

    by morGoth

    Great freaking orc poo...enough with this crapola already Quint. Save this squalid mung for the gossip and business rags.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:36 p.m. CST

    TomBodet suggested Uwe Boll for the Hobbit

    by BadMrWonka

    see above...doesn't that warrant a lashing? I don't care too much about PJ or the Hobbit, (other than that it brings Ringwearer out of the nerd woodwork, and he's always good for a few laughs with his nonsense) but come on, Uwe Boll? jesus christ...I hope you were Joking, TomBodet..

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:36 p.m. CST


    by Quint

    I have a vested interest seeing a true continuation of the series that I love, yes. Jackson doesn't have to direct it, but the way New Line is acting we're going to see a Hobbit movie without the major actors in the roles we love them in and without Weta doing the practical and CGI effects. New Line's not just striking out at Jackson, but at the actors, too. Smart move. We'll see no Serkis as Gollum, no McKellen as Gandalf... those are for sures.<BR><BR>And my main worry is the look of the film. You can get a great director in there, I'm sure, as well as a good effects company, but it's either going to look nothing like the universe Jackson set up or it'll look like a copy of it.<BR><BR>I say if you're going to take advantage of the fanbase the original trilogy still has right now (a very rabid fanbase) and make a Hobbit film, it has to involve as much of the cast as they can get, be a true part of the LOTR story, not just an add-on. If you're going to make a totally separate movie, then wait. New Line can't really do either right now, so it looks more and more like they're either going to royally fuck it up or make sure it never happens. At least with them.<BR><BR>Pound Sand, sure it's interesting when looking back on it, but it's like watching Politics. I feel so dirty afterwards... I agree with Zarles. This kind of stuff takes the magic out of filmmaking for me.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:40 p.m. CST

    the whole mess

    by PantherMatt

    Fuck Bob Shaye. You fucking asshole. It's been a long time since Nightmare on Elm Street pt.1, which is the only watchable one in the series. Aside from Coming to America ,Nightmare 1, and LOTR what else have you given us that's superior to, say, a Golan Globus production? I'm not saying there's nothing out there that isn't superior to a piece of shit, it's just that I can't think of anything. Fuck you Bob Shaye. And, CTUMole: you aren;t incorrect in the idea that PJ shouldn't be the only one considered for The Hobbit (although, in my personal opinion, he got it right on LOTR, so why wouldn't you just fucking hire him for it anyway?) but to suggest that PJ should be happy with the chance he got, and never mind the compensation, regardless of contract is straight up retarded. May you only be employed by those that do business like Shaye: You should be THANKFUL for the chance to bag these groceries, therefore I have decided to only pay you $2/ hour, despite our former agreement of $7.50/hr.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:45 p.m. CST

    ..."Greed Is Good"

    by The Dum Guy

    I was watching Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room last nite, and can't help but wonder how underhanded are most large companies? Even in movie-land people are greedy (like that's even suprising).

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:50 p.m. CST

    Let the Jackson haters bitch...

    by Kraken

    It just makes them look as foolish as Bob and his statements. Some people just like to hate and bitch because that's all they have in their lives. They like to tear down people that have done something creative because they are impotent to do so themselves. So, bitch and hate... we all see right through you with every ignorant word you type.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:50 p.m. CST

    Hollywood power struggles = People magazine

    by CreasyBear

    I want to go in-depth into the power struggle squabbles about as much as I want to read People magazine's who's-dating-whom. I don't care about the stars' personal lives and romantic dysfunction, just about the movies some of them make. In the same way, I don't care for the depressing ruination of artistic possibility by the "suits", I just want to know about the good finished products when decent movies actually do get made. Movie geeks analyze flicks with the care and focus of literature professors discussing Hemingway, but movies -- because of their collaborative nature and the enormous expense involved -- have to deal with more non-artistic, business-side bullcrap. Not dissing Quint for putting up this article, just sad that there are so many roadblocks (and egos) stopping potentially cool movies from being made in the first place.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:50 p.m. CST

    An anniversary video

    by CherryValance

    Who knew it could be that important? LOL

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:53 p.m. CST

    ...but since we're cheering PJ...

    by morGoth

    Eglerio! Praise him! Praise him with great praise! ** Didn't someone used to post that on AICN all the time? And why not? After all, he did film the unfilmable and made an already great story, in some peoples opinion (though not mine), even greater. Sure he took some license but wasn't the crumbling stair scene in Khazad-dum worth it? Yeah, yeah...Arwen at Helm's Deep...get over it already, it didn't happen.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    Hey Dregmobile, If your gonna claim first...

    by kurdt420

    then dont be a little pussy and put a question mark after it. stand up and shout it! If your gonna keep up this pointless and over used tradition at least have some BALLS!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:55 p.m. CST

    So your an up coming

    by nationalmaverick

    So your an up coming director in Hollywood, You have the next big script and all the talent in the world and your guaranteed to make a studio a billion dollars. You get a call from Bob Shaye and while your talking, you suddenly have a realisation "wait a minute, arent you the guy who fucked over pete jackson?" and you slam the phone down. Jackson Fans Unite You fuck with Jackson, you fuck with us. I for one will be boycotting most if not all of new line cinema's shit heaps for the next few years until bob shaye steps down. You mother fucker, how dare you short change a guy you yourself credited with saving new lines ass!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    If only you knew...

    by Gil Brooks

    ...PJ's got a great public image, but it's his behind-the-scenes business antics that have me siding with New Line.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    Hobbit would make money without P.J....

    by Womb2dooM

    ... but moving ahead without original cast members is suicide. Consider this movie, in it's current form, dead in the water or doomed from the outset and that is damn sad to me.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Shaye's gonna lose his job

    by The Ref

    Just you watch. The legal issues are one thing, but a tactless, public disregard for A-list talent is not how you run a studio.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Syndicated humor columnist Art Buchwald

    by Trader Groucho 2

    was the guy who sued Paramount over Coming to America. He's a writer, but not a screenwriter, and for all intents and purposes, a Hollywood outsider, so he had nothing to lose by way of contacts or reputation or relationships in taking Paramount to the mat.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:06 p.m. CST

    New Line messed up and now there's no backing out.

    by jimmy_009

    It will only end when they are legally required to reveal how they fudged the books, heads at New Line will roll, and hopefully when that happens, the half-assed Hobbit won't have been filmed yet. Then the new reps at New Line will approach P.J. with heads hung low and apologies in hand. There's is no angle I can see this from where it's P.J.'s fault. New Line thought they pulled one over on him, offered hush money in the form the Hobbit, and is now striking back in the only way it has left, public opinion. Unfortunately for them not only are the public against them, but soon the courts will be too. Heads are gonna roll.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Wow, AICN must really enjoy the LOTR movies.

    by Mike_D

    I think they're boring. But thats just me.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:07 p.m. CST

    I want more seedy underbelly, dammit!

    by Doctor_Sin

    The more the spotlight is on these fuckers, the more accountable (no pun intended) and aboveboard everyone can be hoped to act. Fuck the Bitch Surfer's irises. This is where the real news is. This is reality. You wanna work in film? Get used to a bunch of backstabbing, malicious jackals cheating you and getting away with it because they can hide behind the bigger wrought-iron property gates. Power to the people! Don't ask for more gossip about Brad/Angelina/Cruise! Ask for more real, hard exposes of the slimy, corrupt underbelly of Hollywood! The snake that eats its own tail!!!!!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Gil Brooks =

    by buffywrestling


  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:11 p.m. CST

    Boo hoo.

    by Quake II

    Whiny little Hollywood millionares. It breaks my heart.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:12 p.m. CST

    I agree, it's not that another director couldn't...

    by morGoth the Hobbit but rather the loss of continuity with PJ's LoTR. Is it really so hard to understand how disappointing that is? What if another director took even greater license with the Hobbit? What if it ends up like that abominable Rankin-Bass cartoon? ** What was that other thing some dip used to post all the time...oh yeah, "Trust PJ!"

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:16 p.m. CST

    btw, Shaye will be hustling popcorn by month's end

    by Doctor_Sin

    "Popcorn eatin' beeyatch!"

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:19 p.m. CST

    This is clearly...

    by Christopher3

    Shaye's lawyer v. Jackson's lawyer. Shaye and Jackson probably aren't even reading these releases.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST


    by Deus Vult

    Okay Quint, 100% serious question here--are problems like these the precise ones guys like Lucas set out to avoid by owning and running his own studio? Not only to prevent the New Lines of the world from controlling the movie process but also the finances? Is that also why Mad Mel Gibson paid his way through The Passion? Just trying to tie this into two guys who catch alot of flak on this site but seem to have some pretty savvy business sense.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:26 p.m. CST

    Please my colon sucks...

    by morGoth

    ...continue with the first story or start the new. That's some hilarious stuff my man. ** Awp, better stay on topic...BOB SHAYE SUX! There, that oughta do it.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:24 p.m. CST

    ...and who, exactly, would fire Shaye???

    by Womb2dooM

    He RUNS the company and is PROTECTING the shareholder's money. I think he's gonna be just fine.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:30 p.m. CST

    I really don't care if a millionaire gets more money.

    by Angry Mean Panda

    Maybe that's just me. I like Jackson. I like his movies. I don't give two shits if he gets another few mil.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:29 p.m. CST

    Lucas and Gibson

    by Quint

    I don't think anybody can say Lucas isn't a genius businessman. Not with a straight face, anyway. He built a series, somehow retained the rights (thanks to keeping the toy licenses, if I remember correctly) and started his own studio. I'm not a fan of the prequels... precisely because Lucas is such a good businessman. I feel he treated them as assets. Hell, he's said he only did them for the money in interviews.<BR><BR>But the man knows his stuff. What was the Pespi deal he made? Something like $6 billion for all 6 Star Wars licensing rights... so Doritos could have Yoda on the bag and Pepsi could have Natalie Portman and JarJar on the can? That is incredible.<BR><BR>Gibson's move was more of a passion... if you'll excuse the phrasing. He made the movie he wanted to make, the movie no one would give him the money to make and it paid off for him. Good on him. John Sayles does that exact same thing. So does Steve Buscemi. They make the movies they want to make, sometimes putting their own cash into it, sometimes making deals that fold in their smaller films with a big job.<BR><BR>I think that passion, that spirit is essential, even if it results in films you might not like. I have no idea if that's what you wanted, but I'm a bit loopy at the moment, having been up since 4am this morning. Add in a reference to canned ham somewhere in there and it's perfect!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST


    by dregmobile

    Point taken!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Gil Brooks

    by dregmobile

    Enlighten us.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Colon, continue your story. My kids' gotta sleep!

    by Doctor_Sin

    ps - Can't majority shareholder(s) oust someone who is ruining their interests?

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:33 p.m. CST


    by dregmobile

    Unless they give it to Sauron. <br> <br> I mean, Cauron.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:36 p.m. CST


    by wackybantha


  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:42 p.m. CST

    Witchking Movie!

    by warp11

    Come on a Witch King Movie from the tales before the hobbit would be amazing and epic. There is so much material there.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:41 p.m. CST

    "...and just who would fire Mikey Eisner?

    by Ravetin

    I mean...He RUNS the company and is PROTECTING the shareholder's money. I think he's gonna be just fine."

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:43 p.m. CST

    Or, err a World Of Warcraft Movie?

    by warp11

    It would almost be the same thing right?

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST

    "Legolas - Episode I: Elf Taint Smells Like Apple Pie"

    by Doctor_Sin

    "Legolas - Episode II: The Coming of the Uncircumcised Dwarves"

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    This Is Crazy

    by DarthDooku

    Seriously, movies should be fun. Making it into this bickering business is stupid. Money isn't everything.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:50 p.m. CST

    Paramount's president stepped down today

    by Doctor_Sin

    Reasons unspecified. I believe a perceived failure in exercising her charges is to blame.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:51 p.m. CST


    by DOGSOUP


  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Legolas - Episode III:

    by nationalmaverick

    Legolas - Episode III: Revenge of the Homoerotic Pigmies-who-are-miffed-at-him-waving his-tight-ass-in-their-faces-while-they-supress their-Inner-desires-because-they-have to-go-to-a-fucking-volcano...son of a bitch

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST


    by Trader Groucho 2

    au contraire mon frere. The stakes here on both sides are way too high to simply leave this whole thing to the legal eagles. It's clearly about the accounting on not one movie, but three, which means tens or possibly hundreds of millions at stake by the time all participants are taken into account. It's also so obviously about The Hobbit, as New Line early on had attempted to use the LOTR payments issue as an incentive, positive or negative, to bring Jackson around to doing the Hobbit soon. New Line's impatience is understandable. They would have liked to see a Hobbit movie on track while there's still good heat from LOTR and before actors like Ian McKellan are actually as old as the characters they portray. From everything I've seen, PJ is the kind of guy who responds more positively to a carrot than a stick, and really doesn't like being offered a carrot while a stick's being held over his head. New Line made a power play on Jackson. New Line calculated so badly they're still trying to figure out why they've got powder burns on their faces. The fact this whole thing is public - sour icing on the cake.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Ravetin... Eisner is a different scenario...

    by Womb2dooM

    He was making stoopid decisions that were jeopardising his movies and therefore, box office take. Shaye is literally protecting tens to hundreds of millions of dollars that may payable if the Towers and Rings audit goes ahead. This money would, of course, adversely effect New Line's holdings (after all, we aren't talking pocket change here). If New Line has been cooking the books, Shaye is doing the right thing by keeping them out of the lime light and Jackson at arms length.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST

    If Jackson thinks he got screwed, fine

    by CTU Mole

    But how much money has he lost now that he's passed on The Hobbit? "It's the principle of the thing" you say? Fine, Jackson's the most principled guy in the biz. Super. We should make him an award for that.<p> I don't even care about the fucking Hobbit. </p>

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:57 p.m. CST


    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Haven't the LOTR actors been through some shite with New Line before anyway? Wasn't it Viggo Mortensen that brought to light the bonuses they were all supposed to receive if FOTR made a certain amount of money? Wasn't New Line sitting on their hands, playing dumb, and quietly hoping that no one had gone back to actually READ their contracts?<P>Did I get that right or am I misrepresenting it a bit? Anybody else remember that?

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:56 p.m. CST

    CTU Mole why the fuck are

    by nationalmaverick

    CTU Mole why the fuck are you on these boards if you dont care about films? Damn fucking right we should make him an award, if it wasnt for him sticking to his guns he would turn into fucking brett ratner and make XMEN FUCKING 3 THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9 p.m. CST

    This is simple

    by erikharrison

    PJ has invested almost every penny he made from LoTR into building top notch production and post production facilities in Wellington. PJ is a businessman, this isn't work for hire, this is New Line hiring Peter, Fran, Phillipa, Weta Limited and Weta Digital to make a movie. The contract has a clause to permit -either- side to have a third party audit, and PJ is suing to be permitted to do what his contract says he can do - and that's exactly what a good businessman ought to do when he thinks his businesses (Weta, et al) are being screwed over. This is not rocket science.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9 p.m. CST

    Gil Brooks - You're a liar.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    If you've got proof of your accusations, post it. Otherwise, you're a coward who is simply throwing TB grenades and talking out of your ass.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST


    by BadMrWonka

    Do you think the problem for Jackson is that he's sort of a half-Lucas? he has a trilogy that was an unqualified success, and a semi-studio full of peopl ethat he works with in WETA, but he just doesn't have the assets to fully fund a large scale film on his own? or do you think he really has no desire to? certainly if he was paid 250 mil for LOTR, he could have funded lovely bones on his own, but that doesn't have the return on revenue potential (read: guaranteed) that the Hobbit has. <br><br>I guess what I'm saying is, how much of this is really about money, and how much is about the fact that new line has the rights to something that Jackson would like to have all his own (within reason)? maybe there's something else going on behind the scenes with New Line and the hobbit, and Jackson wants to wait it out so that MGM can let him do the picture he really wants to do. I do think it's more likely that New Line really does have a lot of shady stuff they want to keep in their closet, as you've said, but I just thought I'd throw another thought out there.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Help me out here, Womb...

    by Ravetin

    ..."He was making stoopid decisions that were jeopardising his movies and therefore, box office take." My first post was mostly a joke, but I think the scenario is the same. It's just the scope of it that's different. Either way, aren't there going to be people at NL unhappy with Shaye? And what happened with Mike Lynne in all this?

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST


    by Neutron

    He lost me at "our legal action is about holding New Line to it's contractual obligations and promises." Anyone who doesn't know the difference between "it's" and "its" doesn't deserve to make the Hobbit. So much for attention to detail.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:16 p.m. CST


    by Deus Vult

    'preciate the response, and it works without question. I think people like lucas had a vision to cut out the studios and do his own thing without them interfering when making movies. our friend PJ should learn this lesson.<p>additionally, lucas learned he could get rich from running his own studio, which I don't think was his initial intention by the way, and his current net worth is $3.5 billion so when "clever" talkbackers call him LUCA$ they're not kidding<p>finally, anyone in any form of entertainment should take a lesson from the hiphop community of the late 80s who realized the art form would always be a bit tainted by white record execs, and thus began the great "rapper-owned" studio crazer of the early 90s which continues to this day. I suppose what I'm saying is PJ should starting laying down some hot tracks or waxing poetic...or something...and won't have to worry 'bout no punk ass newmuthafuckinline--does u her meh?

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Woot! Quint agrees with me!

    by Zarles

    [rudolph]He thinks I'm cuuuuuuuute![/rudolph]

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:17 p.m. CST


    by wolvenom


  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:19 p.m. CST

    I think Randall Graves said it right

    by Turd Furgeson

    When he said "Those fucking rings movies were boring as hell."

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:18 p.m. CST

    by torontoxic <P> Sorry but this looks crazy good. <P> I'm surprised Football Factory never got mentioned at all on this site.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Sure $250 million is a lot but...

    by Ravetin

    ...Jackson doesn't have benefits that Lucas did. Things like 100% of merchandising profits for life and working in an era when a huge genre film could be made for less than $20 million. Jackson's definitely THE up-and-coming empire builder, but I think he has a handful of blockbusters to go before he can afford to do everything on his own.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:22 p.m. CST

    You gotta look at the BIG picture, Ravetin...

    by Womb2dooM

    ... as several people at this site have clued to, something dodgy is happening at New Line that Shaye is trying to keep secret (potentially cooked books). If this secret is exposed AND money has to be paid the Jackson & co., then obviously this will not help New Line's holdings. Of course, one could argue that it would be in everyone's best interest to just pay Jackson and let him make The Hobbit but Shaye's refusal to do that simply exposes how huge this situation potentially is. The point I was making is that, as head of NL, Shaye is not going to fire himself and, it's clearly in the shareholders best interest to keep him in control til this mess is blown over. In regards to the comparisons you raised , I don't believe (and I could be wrong) it's the same thing. While Eisner was immoral and had sex with children, he was never in a position like this. His presence hurt Disney while Shaye's presence, I believe, is actually protecting NL, even if the result of which frustrates a whole bunch of fanboys.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Gil B. and the PJackson vs. New Line

    by Freefinger

    Gil if you say is true, I could actually believe it. Hell that's half of the Hollywood Industry right there. The all have somekind of holier than god attitude once they hit it big. But it's also in many industries that have high paid CEO's or Artists in the music industry. <P>I wouldn't blame him if he did. Some of these Directors are described as Dicks and Jerks, but then again have you ever been in charge of a movie? Hell I just went back to the HBO GreenLight Projects and that was hell on earth for little million dollar movies. <P>Imagine once you get the big budgets what pressure you have to deliver something without losing money and actually turning a great profit from it all for the Studios. <P>What is important in this TB is that New Line aren't letting anyone near the books. Kinda makes you think that something's fishy about the whole situation. And hell if they did skim a little bit off the top for actors, imagine the piece they might've cut out from under Jackson? <P>I'm no fan of him, hell I thought King Kong was the best comedic masterpiece of the past 5 years. The whole running with the Dinosaurs part was hilarious, some places they looked like they were running front left to right, but the dinosaurs were also running in a weird angle making this some of the worst CGI ever.<P>And casting Black, I mean, I like his funny stuff, but this was just bad casting.<P>As far as the money goes, if Jackson is being ripped off then he should get what they offered from the first day. No more and surely no less.<P>Refusing acces is one big billboard for "Hey now, we didn't do that, now come on, why would we do that? You don't need to look into it, we told you we gave you everything scouts honor!" and that's as good as "We guilty as hell! And we don't want to pay you a cent!"<P>Hell the Studio heads who don't want them in the books are probably skiming some off for themselves and they should be fired and charged.<P>Anyway I'm all for this being posted, it's good to see all sides of the business, not just the happy perfect side all the time. As long as it's not tabloid material and we start posting "Peter Jackson is suing New Line Studios, and his baby alien is mad as hell!"

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST

    an actual point, taint & faux ebonics in the same post

    by Deus Vult

    either I'm on fire boys or its time I take a break from posting. $5 via paypal to the first talkbacker who thinks I should take a 24 hour break from posting. here we go now--my email is so lemme have it!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Cuaron's Hobbitt would work for me

    by DinoBass

    Haven't seen CoM but his was my fave Potter installment, and when I heard PJ would probably not be involved with the Hobbitt he was my first thought. Verbinski would be good, too. Raimi I'm not so hot on. But all this negative press around the movie could scare off all those guys anyway.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Well, I guess you're right, Womb.

    by Ravetin

    Now that I think about it, I suppose there's even non-NL execs who will want Shaye to keep quiet since Jackson getting his way could lead to all sorts of shit. Like studios being forced to post DVD sales figures and whatnot. Wow, Jackson's fucked.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Deus (money bags) Vult...

    by Womb2dooM

    Why don't you give that money to poor kids and stick around? Hehe, it's funny coz poor kids can't access paypal...

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:36 p.m. CST

    wolvenom - could you be a stupid fuck?

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Let's see - say you worked on a project for nearly 10 years. Then let's say this project was immensely successful and (yes) earned a ton of money. However, when you go to balance your checkbook, you suddenly realize that you're short millions of dollars - money that not only belongs to you...but the people who worked so hard, day after day, for nearly 10 years to help make your project work.<P>If a 3rd party audit would help to determine the nature of these missing funds (through perfectly legal and professional means), wouldn't you want to know if you actually received all deserved rewards for your labor?<P>The folks who think this is about PJ's "greed" are insane. Simply because it involves dollar amounts that probably none of us will ever see in our lifetimes doesn't make it something that PJ should just let slide.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:41 p.m. CST

    and yes...

    by Freefinger

    I'm also on Randall Graves side when he said "Those fucking rings movies were boring as hell".<p>Man... Lotsa stuff to cover, and even more that never did make it to the films, but they were boring...<p>Like K. Smith said all they did was walk and fight a giant spider, Hell even the trees in that movie walked.<P>Being a "half" fan of the books (I liked them just didn't fu**ing foam at the mouth at them like some did) I was not hyped up at them making these to a movie in the first place.<P>I just didn't see this as an "EPIC". All that walking and those 20 different endings at the end, I was just hoping that some nuclear explosion would manifest itself and kill 'em all. <P>And freaking Elijah Wood, could someone ask him do try to do another face while filming? He's always got that idiot dumbass beaten dog look with his eyebrows tilted. I would've pushed him off in the volcano if I was there!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:42 p.m. CST

    womb2doom I needed that shot in the arm

    by Deus Vult

    hilarious and I'm sincere here, no classic talkback sarcasm. I've used that $5 hook a dozen times in the last few days and not a single person has emailed me for the money but if they had I wouldn't be moneybags for long mind you.<p>by the way, my wife teaches poor kids (or tries to) and she says "they steal"

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:43 p.m. CST


    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    He did a hell of a job with "Children of Men" but I'm not entirely sure he's a good fit for "The Hobbit". Strangely enough, I was not really impressed with his Potter film either. But I don't really blame him...I blame the lousy franchise.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:45 p.m. CST

    I love how people come onto

    by nationalmaverick

    I love how people come onto a message board packed with interested parties on either side and then says "I dont give a shit about this or that and I think it was boring" Likes its a que for all of us to shut up because they are right lol.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Bob Shayne obviously

    by Irresolute

    has a beer and cheets on his wife

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:49 p.m. CST

    As if anyone here...

    by Saluki

    ... Wouldn't fight for the $20 million they were owed, if not more. New Line screwed themselves up the creek with this one.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 9:58 p.m. CST

    enjoy it while it lasts nationalmaverick...

    by Deus Vult

    because when the commies (chinese), socialists (hugo chavez) or the wahhabi muslims take over, the first thing they'll do is shut down any site that allows people to talk about anything that could be considered recalcitrant or malcontent behavior. naturally a website where people talk about movies will be first in line to get shut down.<p>or will classic austin liberal harry knowles join with them and tell us its good for us? now THAT'S a topic worth discussing!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:01 p.m. CST

    By messing with LOTR

    by S-Mart shopper

    New Line has brought about our destruction, Apophis is 2029...just in time for Cameron's AVATAR.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Deus Vult

    by Saluki

    Keep going... This is could become even funnier.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:05 p.m. CST


    by Randy Sims

    Your logic about the Shareholders protecting the NL head ass wipe is flawed. If NL is inded cooking the books, then the studio brass has falsified the actual income generated by the trilogy. Not only does that screw over PJ, but then that also means that there was probably coinage made that wasnt reported in the bottom line to the shareholders either. So if they are willing to shit on PJ, they are willing to shit on the guys holding the stock too. If I were a shareholder, I would want to know that all of the profit is getting reported so that I know I'm getting my cut too. I would also want an exec who's not out trashing the actors/directors and nameless herds of toadies that make the movies that earn my dividens. Sure, The Hobbit could be done by anyone of a number of people, but only PJ's name makes me want to pay the sitter so I can be there opening night.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:07 p.m. CST

    my dear saluki...

    by Deus Vult

    forget it kid, I'm done. for God's sake, it's 10:20pm on a wednesday, I should have been in bed an hour ago if not more. I'm an old man! I'm confused! will you take me home?

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:07 p.m. CST

    PJ's certainly got some novel legal theories

    by Ye Not Guilty

    According to the New York Times: "What makes Mr. Jackson's suit draw such widespread interest here, other than his clout in the industry and the amount at stake, is one specific allegation about New Line's behavior. The suit charges that the company used pre-emptive bidding (meaning a process closed to external parties) rather than open bidding for subsidiary rights to such things as "Lord of the Rings" books, DVD's and merchandise. Therefore, New Line received far less than market value for these rights, the suit says. Most of those rights went to other companies in the New Line family or under the Time Warner corporate umbrella, like Warner Brothers International, Warner Records and Warner Books. So while the deals would not hurt Time Warner's bottom line, they would lower the overall gross revenues related to the film, which is the figure Mr. Jackson's percentage is based on. According to people on both sides of Mr. Jackson's lawsuit, the claim strikes at the heart of the modern vertically integrated media company. One of the apparent - though largely unproven - benefits of media integration is the ability of conglomerates like the Walt Disney Company, Time Warner, the News Corporation, Viacom, Sony and General Electric to sell subsidiary rights to the many divisions within the company. By painting this corporate synergy as "self-dealing," Mr. Jackson's lawsuit and similar suits filed in the last few years, called vertical integration lawsuits, argue that the idea of the media conglomerate is at odds with the interests of the creative minds behind the content."

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:15 p.m. CST

    TAINT no business like show business.

    by Judge Dredds Dirty Undies

    Taint it cool!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:16 p.m. CST

    Books in those legal theories

    by DinoBass

    are probably all those "Making of..." and "Artwork of..." books and such.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Mark Ordesky

    by TheSeeker7

    I kinda am curious to know where he stands on all of this. Because he is (or at least was, for all I know) one of the executives at New Line, but obviously as we all know from the DVD documentary material he was very closedly involved with the production of the trilogy and right there next to Jackson for enough of it.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:21 p.m. CST

    ahh, a breath of fresh air, from a taint near you!

    by Deus Vult

    you're a good man judge dredd. hey, how come no one has used the "gotta eat" deal tied into how skinny PJ is these days? I don't even use the gotta eat catchphrase and it seemed pretty obvious to me.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Parallels to the Iraq situation...

    by mcflytrap

    New Line won't show the books therefore they MUST be hiding something! Is this coming from the same people that argued against the idea that because Saddam wouldn't let UN inspectors do their job, he was up to something as well? Could it be, a double standard? Nah.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:26 p.m. CST

    4815162342, fair point...

    by Womb2dooM

    However if this thing is as big as it potentially is, then, if it's exposed, this could send NL into the ground, thus fucking the shareholders regardless. I'm sure if all this miraculously sorts itself out without further ado, Shaye won't last much longer as, like you said, it's probable that's he's fucking the shareholders as well. Until then he's the only thing standing between potential collapse and anonymity.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:32 p.m. CST


    by Saluki

    We're going to bomb New Line, and then hang Bob Shaye? I'm willing to sacrifice about 30 troops for that, but then I'm going to get tired of the occupation and scheme up some bombing of other studios...

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:34 p.m. CST

    This is getting complicated

    by CherryValance

    Didn't David Duchovny cause a stink once because he was concerned that his royalties from the X-files were going to suffer because of that whole synergy thing? Like they'd sell the syndication rights to themselves for next to nothing and then he would have gotten totally screwed. But that was a long time ago and I don't remember how that turned out. </p> The next time I heard anything about that kinda stuff was when Sean Astin went on Regis & Kelly to promote one of the movies, probably TTT. And Ripa told him to go back and get more money since they were so successful, since they'd done all their negotiations before the even started filming. It's probably all her fault.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Down with Shaye

    by Cobbio

    Kick New Line's ass, Peter! I'm so sick of corporate fucks like Bob Shaye thinking they don't owe anyone anything, and then when the case goes to court, an Enron result happens. Bob Shaye must be shitting his pants over this.<p> I love it.<p> I think there's a rule in Hollywood that you take what you're given, enjoy your fame and success, but don't question the specifics of how much money you're actually owed. It's existed that way for almost a century. But then cases like "Coming to America" happen, and the nasty, greedy, corrupt, asshole-infested underside of Hollywood are exposed. I'm glad Art Bushwald sued for what he was owed, as was everyone else who worked on that film. Bob Shaye wants Peter Jackson to just take the money New Line so graciously paid him and not ask questions.<p> But look what happens when a now-famous director actually ASKS questions and doesn't settle for the bureaucratic bullshit the studio wants him to swallow. You're the asshole here, Bob Shaye. You and your crooked, fuck-the-artist who made us money policies. I realize you have shareholders to appease, which is why you're going on the offensive, but for all the people everywhere who hate corporate suits dictating our beliefs, I hope Peter Jackson takes you down hard. To the mat, your sniveling, weaselly motherfucker.<p> Right on, Peter.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:34 p.m. CST

    I'm thinking of making a porn movie called...

    by Womb2dooM

    ... "My Cleft Lipped Sally" It's a cumming-of-age comedy about a mentally challenged cleft lipped girl and man who loves her. Thoughts...

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:41 p.m. CST

    The Paramount and "Coming to America" meme

    by Ye Not Guilty

    What PARAMOUNT did with "Coming to America' is completely different than the situation between PJ and New Line. The "Coming to America" lawsuit involved questions over profit participation, whereas PJ's lawsuit is a question of gross points. Two different studios, two completely different cases. I think AICN is over its head in this case.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:45 p.m. CST

    re: my screen name

    by CherryValance

    The Outsiders. I didn't remember the other one although I have seen it.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Re: Ye

    by Cobbio

    "LOTR" and "Coming to America" involve different types of legal cases, it's true, Ye Not Guilty, but the principle of the studio not meeting the specifics of its agreed-upon contract with the artists are the same, in my opinion.<p> This is big, fat case, one that could shake the entire industry. If New Line is compelled to open its books by a court, and anomalies are found, and those anomalies amount to tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, the carry-over effect in the industry would be huge. New Line doesn't want this to happen, and they're pissed Pete Jackson is persisting in his pursuit of his owed money.<p> You may look at "Coming to America" and "LOTR" as fundamentally different types of cases, which is fine, but in both cases, millions of cooked-book dollars were and are on the line.<p> I don't care how much money Peter Jackson made off "LOTR", because the studio made much, much more than he did. Jackson wants to cut through the bureaucratic bullshit and get what he's owed. Bob Shaye wants to plug the festering leak in the dam before it collapses on himself, his reputation in Hollywood, and especially New Line.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Deus Vult=Taint Crusader

    by S-Mart shopper

    Hey Deus Lo Volt(if you're feeling irregular), I don't suppose you've played the board game. You can find it at

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:03 p.m. CST

    quint, you remind me of the host of 'cheaters'

    by BendersShinyAss

    this is the part of the show i hate. bullshit, you love it!!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:04 p.m. CST

    Bob Shaye needs a taint lashing!

    by S-Mart shopper

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:08 p.m. CST

    New Line book cooking=Flames on taint

    by S-Mart shopper

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:10 p.m. CST

    I always get WildCherryTaint at the movies

    by S-Mart shopper

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:12 p.m. CST

    Friend of mine saw Children, didn't care for it

    by S-Mart shopper

    but this is the same guy who DID like Nacho Libre, so not a whole lotta stock in his opinion.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:13 p.m. CST

    This is all a work

    by Fried Gold

    Bob Shaye will be cutting an in-ring promo next Monday and Jackson will run down there for a big face off.....only to chairshot Zaentz.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:20 p.m. CST

    re:Children of Men

    by S-Mart shopper

    I keep hearing about this long 1 take scene that is awesome. The first time I ever noticed and appreciated such a scene was in Hard Boiled, when they were in the hospital, very cool.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:23 p.m. CST

    you know whats really going to happen?

    by BendersShinyAss

    Jacksons going to get his money and he's never going to work inhollywood ever again. he'll be a BIG indi producer from new zealand. He's pissing in the big pond now, being an outsider who has gotten himself somewhat pissed off at the dealings of hollywood. the truth is guys, new line wouldn't be the only studeo cooking the books - that said, i think other studios would be somewhat curious about this state of affairs - and there would be a real hesitation in the future to work with someone like jackson again. the mans a loud mouth. I'm not saying what new line did was right. there's nothing worse than being screwed out of your hard earned cash.... but lets not be feeble here - Jackson is nothing unique on the list here. in hollywoods eyes, he's a trouble maker.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST


    by Ye Not Guilty

    "If New Line is compelled to open its books by a court, and anomalies are found, and those anomalies amount to tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, the carry-over effect in the industry would be huge." You're right, it would be huge, but you and I both know it will never get that far. Both sides will eventually agree to settle, probably for about $60 million or so. Unfortunately for Peter Jackson, his lawyers will probably get most of it, and he'll be left with maybe $25 million or so, which isn't bad, but considering he could have pocketed maybe up to $150 million for the two "Hobbit" movies instead, it makes you wonder what kind of crack PJ is smoking these days. Sure, by agreeing to do the Hobbit movies he would have been allowing New Line to weasel out of paying him some money, but by sticking to his principles, he's screwing himself out of way more money and out of a two picture deal, plus burning his bridges at New Line. I just hope this won't have a ripple effect, resulting in PJ losing out on directing gigs at other studios as well. If PJ is unwilling to compromise, then other studios may well decide it would be better to avoid employing him.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:24 p.m. CST

    Why stop with the Hobbit/New Line conflict reports?

    by theadamschellenberg

    I really enjoy reading whatever new developments come to pass. Am I suppose to learn about whats happening to one of my favorite film franchises on MSNBC instead of AICN?!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:28 p.m. CST

    No, but I saw Hitchcock's TAINT!

    by S-Mart shopper

    Haven't seen ROPE that I recall, but there are a lot of older movies that I've seen all or part of AND don't remember the names, I sometimes lack in that department.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:30 p.m. CST

    the thing about Hitchcock's taint

    by S-Mart shopper

    little to no hair and distinguished profile, go figure!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:36 p.m. CST

    ROPE was awesome!

    by Womb2dooM

    Actually it was intended to look like just one take but they could only fit 8 minutes or so of film in the camera at one time. It's actually a really great black comedy as well. IT'S FUUUN TO LEARN!!!!

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:39 p.m. CST

    ROPE GOTTA EAT!!!60yrs later

    by S-Mart shopper

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:39 p.m. CST

    10 shots of Rope?

    by DinoBass

    Sounds like Peter North

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:43 p.m. CST

    BSB, my condolences on stooops

    by S-Mart shopper

    I made a joke about stalking you on another thread a day or two ago, just to keep you on your toes.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:42 p.m. CST

    DinoBass... Who the hell is Peter North?!?!

    by Womb2dooM

    Why the fuck would you bring up a name nobody knows who it is? That's stupid. I don't know him. I don't even download porn... I like boobies.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Damn you Jar Jar Binks

    by darthbinks1220

    Damn you Jar Jar Binks

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:51 p.m. CST

    Peter North creates doomed womb, ironic...

    by S-Mart shopper


  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:52 p.m. CST

    Ben Affleck as Bilbo

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Matt Damon as Gandalf. Yes, I know that the reverse casting would work better, but clearly better isn't the point...

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Bringing Sexy Back

    by Ye Not Guilty

    I think I have razor burn on my taint after shaving down there.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:52 p.m. CST

    hello ford turns down new starwars

    by skiff

    Why hasn't antbody talked about that pissing off starwars fans. The guy would make firewall but not a new starwars film. Well ladi fucking daw

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Bobby DeNiro as Gandalf

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Joe Pesci as Thorin. Chuck Norris as Beorn. Bilbo animated in Rankin-Bass style.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:59 p.m. CST

    The Hobbit With An All-Girl Cast

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Like a "women in prison" flick but on the road! Oh wait they already made that for cable and it sucked.

  • Jan. 10, 2007, 11:58 p.m. CST

    Hitchcock's best flick

    by DinoBass

    Peter North-by-Northwest. It starts off with a ton of long shots, then a few smaller shots and then--surprise! More long shots! That movie drank a lot of protein shakes or something.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, midnight CST

    Yeah Skiff WTF?

    by CaptDanielRoe

    And did you choose your name for the inexplicably appealing Tatooine vehicle?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:02 a.m. CST

    George Romero Should Direct

    by CaptDanielRoe

    If you are gonna screw it up at least screw it up with class. The logic being that LOTR was good in large part because of Jackson's zombie-horror chops.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:03 a.m. CST

    HARRY,you need to keep writing about this matter

    by pipergates

    Not just for us to know all the sordid details but because we all need to help push these company guys into doing the right thing.Even if Jackson is somehow not telling the whole story,these incredibly ignorant people at New Line can not be allowed to mess up a project so loved by so many,as is the Hobbit made into a movie.Dont they understand the money they are losing on this?How many people that want to see Smaug and Beorn and the spiders of Mirkwood and the treasure-cave?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:01 a.m. CST

    I feel bad for MGM

    by Freakemovie

    I even forget their role in this, but they have some stake in it. They're not involved in the New Line/Jackson fight, but they're stuck right in the middle of it, and they know Jackson is the one who should be making the Hobbit. It's like the mutual friends of a couple that's going through an ugly breakup. Poor guys.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:03 a.m. CST

    Ordesky in the extended editions

    by Freakemovie

    I just remember Mark Ordesky of New Line on the extended DVDs jokingly calling Jackson a sneaky bastard (in that case for forcing him to announce that the premiere of ROTK would be in New Zealand). Sad to look back on the fun times.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:07 a.m. CST

    I read a Ford/Star Wars story too.

    by S-Mart shopper

    according to the story Ford turned down 40mil for a new flick, I think the whole thing is bullshit.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Harrison Ford WAS Offered New Stars Wars

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Recently! Right before Indy 4. Ceck it out via googlenews, it just broke. Damn.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:08 a.m. CST

    You fucking losers...

    by Fleet

    I love how practically all of you destroy any possible credibility by making your comments and then giggling stupidly about Taint-sniffing and repeating fucking stupid "Gotta Eat" jokes... Seriously... It's like a kiddy-talk-back in here...

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:11 a.m. CST

    According to Britain's Daily Star, so all bullshit IMO

    by S-Mart shopper

    "Harrison was horrified," a source tells the Daily Star. "He told George he just couldn't face being stuck in a spaceship with Chewbacca again."

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:19 a.m. CST

    More dignified, so he wouldn't go for your ass

    by S-Mart shopper

    at least not at first, right?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:20 a.m. CST

    British Tabloids=Flames on Tainted Nipples

    by S-Mart shopper

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:22 a.m. CST

    American Tabloids=Nipples on Flaming Taints

    by S-Mart shopper

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:32 a.m. CST

    Even if this gets settled,Peter's become too expensive

    by Greg7007

    New Line had an extremely lousy year in 2006, but should bounce back in 2007 with Rush Hour 3 and the film of the first His Dark Materials book trilogy. The fanboys should accept the harsh reality that even if New Line settle their dispute with Jackson and vice versa (which they definitely won't), he's now too expensive to make The Hobbit for them, as he'd understandably want at least $US 20 mill upfront and probably 20 % of the film's cinema and DVD profits, which is just too much, not unless Saul Zaentz (who individually made even more from ther 3 LOTR films than even Jackson did) was quite happy to pay PJ those prices.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:58 a.m. CST

    I love how everyone automatically just assumes...

    by Sledge Hammer

    ...that Jackson *must* be the one in the right here, and that *everything* must be the fault of "those evil, greedy fucks at Newline". Blind fanboy loyalty reigns supreme. Forget that Jackson basically started this mess by trying to blackmail Newline in the press, rather than just letting the whole legal process run it's course. Forget what Newline did for Jackson. There's no shared responsibility, no greed and ego on BOTH SIDES going on here at all, no, surely it all has to be evil Newline's fault. Christ. I love Jackson's films too, but that doesn't excuse his own poor behaviour here. This is after all a man who started out by saying that he wasn't even sure that Newline had shortchanged him, he just wanted to make sure they hadn't, but later changed his tune as things got more and more bitter and twisted between the two parties, and the egomaniacal blame game raged on between the two. While Newline originally offered to make good on what Jackson apparently *thought* was owed as part of the Hobbit deal, starting out being apparently willing to compromise until everything blew up and got out of hand. My only point is both sides are being stubborn egotistical whiny dicks who refuse to budge an inch, and have forgotten just how much the other has contributed to get them where they are today, and at the end of the day they're both going to wind up worse off for it, and so are the fans. <p>And in response to someone who said "how can you possibly sue someone and still stay friendly", this isn't the real world, it's hollyweird, and in Hollyweird litigation is a way of life. It's all about the business, legal action over monies allegedly owed or deals allegedly broken happens all the fucking time, only it's usually conducted more professionally between parties and doesn't get this ugly in the press, and in the long run usually some sort of compromise deal is made between parties. I mean Connery has rather famously sued pretty much every film studio that he has ever worked for at one time or another, and yet that didn't stop him getting work (before he apparently retired at least), and while I'm sure there was some bitterness afterwards in some cases, ultimately the business of making new films and new money still came first, and it could have been the same here if they'd kept things professional while legal did it's bit. Doesn't mean it would have, but it *could* have. Not much chance of that ever happening now, thanks to the bitter public actions and back & forth mud slinging of both sides though.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:14 a.m. CST



    love studio execs... such greedy fucks...

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:17 a.m. CST

    wait, Kiss and makeup?

    by s0nicdeathmonkey

    Gene Simmonds is involved?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:23 a.m. CST


    by Veraxus

    Jackson's calm, respectful, thoughful reply makes Bob Shaye seem even MORE like a manipulative, whiny asshole than I originally thought. How 'bout this Mr. Shaye - we all stop seeing your movies and buying your DVDs. There's a lot of Geeks out there you are seriously starting to piss off. Never enderestimate the power of faceless masses of overweight, underwashed dorks ready to fight and die for their entertainment idols.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:22 a.m. CST

    Sledge Hammer - You are absolutely right

    by SiskoDK

    But having AICN looking at anything regarding Jackson objectively is about as likely as Harry giving a bad review to a film directed by Tarantino, Cameron, Rodriquez etc. This site is so biased that it is almost funny. When Fox changed the backstory of Dr. Doom everybody went ballistic and HATED the film before a single frame was shot. - Im not saying the film ended up a masterpiece but at least I waited undtil the final product to pass judgment. But when Raimi (maybe) changes the Spiderman backstory by making Sandman the killer of Uncle Ben it is suddenly "it will be interesting to se where they are going with this...", "If handled right it could be great..." and so on The fact is that NOBODY knows the whole story behind this. And New Line's unwillingness to open the books is NO ADMISSION OG GUILT (What happened to innocent until proven guilty ?). How many companies would just open the books to any claim they found not to be valid ? Finally - I love the Ring trilogy and would love for Jackson to make the Hobbit. Bu I am also certain that another director could make a great Hobbit movie. Actually o think it could be quite funny to se what Harry would do if Jackson was dropped and Cameron, Raimi og Tarantino where handed the job.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:29 a.m. CST


    by ye olde shiza

    I don't pretend to know the differences between the Paramount "Coming to America" case and this one, but as a layman, I would think the main concern for folks here would be to see if someone was screwed in contractual obligations. <br><br> Not taking any sides at all, The Lord of the Rings was a huge, huge, HUGE risk for both New Line and Peter Jackson to undertake, and it just so happened to pan out. Fate paid it forward for those guys, but now that it's a hit, the books need to be checked even moreso. And if the books being checked just so happens to fund a new movie from WETA or give a $200 check to some of those guys who played orcs, then why the Hell not hope for the best? If the books are clean, and New Line has nothing to worry about, then what's the big deal? <br><br> I don't understand the logic of some people. A contract is a contract. EVERYONE has to pay the fuckin' piper! So, stopped your fucking whining.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:35 a.m. CST

    Bob Shaye's Friendly Chat with the Local Grocer

    by Dick Nicely

    Phil: "That'll be twelve-fifty, sir."<p>Shaye: "No problem, son. Here's ten bucks."<p>Phil: "I'm sorry, sir, that's twelve-fifty."<p>Shaye: "I just gave you ten."<p>Phil: "Yes, sir, but I need another two-fifty, or you'll have to return some of these items to their rightful shelves."<p>Shaye: "Listen, you little punk. This tinned corn and cereal don't buy itself. I come in here and justify the existence of you, the corn, the cereal and that ridiculous name badge you're wearing. Have some self-respect, son. I just handed you ten bucks. If you'd studied math instead of flunking cashier school, you'd know ten bucks is ten bucks more than zero. So take this Alexander Hamilton and go back to reading your comic book."<p>Phil: "I'm sorry, sir, but unless you pay for all your groceries, I'm going to have to ask you to leave."<p>Shaye: "Kid, you have no idea who you're messing with here. You'll never sell lunch in this town again."

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:36 a.m. CST

    I took the initiative, Colon...

    by Dick Nicely

    Hope you don't mind.<p>And lo, the sun rises, and American insomniacs and workshy Europeans unite.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:38 a.m. CST

    Nicely done

    by ye olde shiza

    The cashier bit with Bob Shaye is some good shiza.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Snakes on a train!!

    by Snikkar124

    deees nuts

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:43 a.m. CST

    My Colon Sucks ... you, me, and all that ...

    by ye olde shiza

    Thank you so much for brightening my rainy Northwestern US day with the infinite poop-loop quote ... <br><br> I wish they would have nominated that kid for a best supporting actor Oscar and used that scene in the montage. Fucking best scene in the whole movie.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Dick Nicely, apt name

    by nationalmaverick

    Dick Nicely, apt name btw thats pure gold dude, worthy of Wilde

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:01 a.m. CST

    "Jackson's dignified, thoughtful reply"

    by Ringwearer9

    You know, that's why Shaye is kinda fuming, because Mr. Jackson has been playing at being a kind, dignified, loving human being, at the same time that he's been using this Geek Tolkien and AICN readers to paint New Line and Shaye as evil and unreasonable. Do you really think that line in his letter about "deep affection for Bob Shaye and all the upper managment at New Line" is anything but the most vicious sarcasm designed to produce the exact opposite feeling in his opponent? There is nothing admirable about that ... it's deeply calculated and snotty cattiness, from someone who thinks his media campaign via Internet has his opponent on the ropes. Jackson's viciousness in this game is scary. I'd never want to be part of any project he worked on from now on. His true colors are flying black with skull and crossbones.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:07 a.m. CST


    by nationalmaverick

    Read peters bio? Mark Ordesky and petey boy are huge friends, in fact have been since brain dead days. Oh and as if theres any chance in the universe he'd even ask you to wipe his dogs ass

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Am I the only who's enjoying this?

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    As a frequent viewer of DVD extras and whatnot, I am mightily tired of these Hollywood types glad-handing one another and talking about how so-and-so did 'a great job'. It's boring, and you also know it probably isn't true. Just once, I would like to hear a director, on a commentary track, say: 'Jesus, that actor was an asshole. Total egomaniac. We could hardly shoot some days from all noise coming froming his hooker trailer.'<p>It's a shame the end of the result of all this will likely be a crappy Hobbit film, but I am enjoying very much these public spats between rich guy #1 and rich guy #2. Someone above made a joke about wrestling, but I think he could be on to something. A cage match, or maybe an all-hobbit lumberjack match, might be the only way to settle things here.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:14 a.m. CST

    It's early

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    Which is my excuse for the many errors in my previous post. Froming? What the hell, Frank? The end of the result? Clearly, the English-speaking centre of my brain does not come on line until after I've had more tea.<p>P.S. Good to see you, Ringwearer9. You may be onto something with that skull and crossbones line. Didn't Jackson cameo as a pirate in ROTK? Maybe he was trying to tell you something...

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:17 a.m. CST

    Commentary Tracks - sweet!

    by ye olde shiza

    FTM - That's a great idea. Then, that warning in front of all the DVDs about how "commentary tracks are not necessarily the opinion of ..." would actually mean something. <br><br> One of my favorite tracks of all time is still the Big Trouble in Little China track, which has its share of "so and so's great" bullshit, but it was just fun to listen to Kurt Russell and Carpenter talk about how fucking retarded, yet wonderful, the movie was. <br><br> For some of what you want, you can listen in to the commentary tracks from Mr. Show's DVDs. I think they've read everyone's minds and just attempted to poke fun at the whole idea of commentary tracks in general. Some of the best stuff was listening to bits where they'd get two DIFFERENT actors to voice-over whatever skit was playing, making a completely different, usually more retarded skit than the first. Or, the bits where they'd invent totally new characters and voices to comment on shows that had nothing to do with them. Mr. Show ... man, I miss them.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:43 a.m. CST

    Peter North? Peter North hit me in the face once...

    by Mace Tofu

    knocked me on my ass. You never forget someone like that. Show the man some respect! ROPE was cool.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:10 a.m. CST

    Well played, Quint.

    by DocPazuzu

    I'd like to compliment you on your excellent owning of Ringy in the last TB. The sweetness was accentuated by Ringy's hilariously bad attempts at saving face in being shown what an ignorant, petty scumsucker he is. Kudos, sir.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:10 a.m. CST


    by kwisatzhaderach

    I never saw an interview with Lucas where he said he did the new SW films for the money. Can you point me to one please?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Hey Ringy.

    by DocPazuzu

    You were fucking owned. Big time.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:37 a.m. CST

    What gets me...

    by DocPazuzu the attitude some of the PJ haters have. You see, to me it wouldn't matter how much I hated a director or how many billions of dollars that person owned. I would never say, "Well, serves that fucking richer right since he already owns billions, that no good, riching richer!" The time to say "No, you're not worth more than X million dollars and X% of the profits" is DURING NEGOTIATION. A deal is a deal, no matter how you look at it. If New Line is playing fair and square then they shouldn't have any problem making their records known to an investigation by the involved parties. I can't believe some of you tools saying that if PJ REALLY loved Tolkien then he'd let a studio which has possibly fucked him and his associates out of millions of dollars have an opportunity to fuck him out of millions more while he at the same time EARNS even more millions of dollars for the same people. If PJ is wrong about his concerns, then I'm sure he's a bigger man than Ringwearer9 and can actually apologize after being owned by New Line.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:55 a.m. CST

    ye olde shiza

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    I agree on the Big Trouble In Little China DVD. In fact, I like all of the Carpenter/Russell commentaries. They're refreshingly free of the Hollywood bullshit. I wish they'd do one for Escape From LA, which I think is an underappreciated film.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:46 a.m. CST

    New Line's website

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Take a look at all the great films on the New Line website. The Nativity Story, Snakes On A Plane, Take The Lead, Just Friends, Code Name: The Cleaner. Bob Shaye knows jackshit about quality filmmaking.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:02 a.m. CST

    I kind of like New Line

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    Who else would risk money on films like Seven, Boogie Nights, Glengarry Glen Ross or A History Of Violence while also releasing many, many shitty horror films?. I have even enjoyed some of those shitty horror films.<p>Thanks, Bob Shaye, you apparently greedy bastard.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:03 a.m. CST

    What gets me...

    by Franklin T Marmoset that bit in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest when Chief Bromden makes his escape. Very moving.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:04 a.m. CST

    What gets me...

    by Franklin T Marmoset people who misuse the expression 'it's the exception that proves the rule'. Think before you speak, people.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:09 a.m. CST

    What gets me...

    by Franklin T Marmoset when a film is turned into a musical and the musical version of the film is turned into a musical film version of the musical version of the original film. Popular culture is eating its own poop.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:13 a.m. CST

    You cant FUCK with peter jackson

    by knifeandfork

    Im pretty sure he can handle himself in a fight. Him and shaye should just settle this dispute in a no holds barred cage fight. The hulkster can be the ringman."i want a good clean fight brother ! "

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:19 a.m. CST

    Stefen Fangmeier should direct The Bobbit

    by Finklestone

    Stefen Fangmeier deserves a second chance after Eragon to redeem himself as a director. His experience with special effects he would make an ideal candidate to take charge of The Bobbit.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:38 a.m. CST

    How many times will this Coming to America "theory" be

    by JackPumpkinhead

    posted? Anyway, it's such great news to see Hackson kicked out of The Hobbit. At least now I know that Thorin won't be a slapstick joke, Bard won't be a sleazy thug, and the company won't be expanded with a 'tough female warrior'... oh, and that the film won't be 72 hours long and scored by a Canadian who can't write a single note of memorable music.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:49 a.m. CST

    franklin marmoset with a T

    by BendersShinyAss

    watch the extra's on the abyse and see the shit storm that set was. i always laugh when people say here "Mr Cameron, bring back Ed Harris - his performance in Abyss was his best." <p>Ed harris was ready to kill James Cameron in his sleep!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 6:31 a.m. CST

    Ronnie Corbett for Bilbo

    by Finklestone

    Ronnie Corbett should play Bilbo in Stefen Fangmeier's The Bobbit. You know it makes sense people!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 6:32 a.m. CST

    Peter Jackson

    by Seph_J

    I love you. You are a God. Bob Shaye is starting something he cannot finish. Jackson, you have everyone behind you.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 6:34 a.m. CST

    in this last round of back and forth

    by just pillow talk

    it's clear Jackson has presented himself in the better light. (he also doesn't block as much light as he used to...) I would prefer to have him as director, if only so that WETA and the actors would not be lost. While I understand everyone's problems with the movies, they really were remarkable. I'm not sure if I've left a theatre in a more amazed state of mind than after Fellowship. Except for Godzilla, where Hank Azaria was fuck'n hysterical!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 6:57 a.m. CST


    by kwisatzhaderach

    Tru, but Harris also said he would not have missed the experience and that his feelings would soften over time, which presumably they have. So Jimbo get Harris in as a general in AVATAR!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 7 a.m. CST

    Amazing how this thread

    by kwisatzhaderach

    has turned into a Cameron one too. Where's Part 2 of the interview Harry?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Legolas Star Wars: The Original Trilogy

    by teh ran

    You know you want it...PJ make it so! BTW I am bored with PJ's oh so nice personna, I'm sure he didn't accidentally stumble onto his cut of the trilogy takings, it sounds like he's using the audit as a smoke screen for the fact that Kong was crap and the studio don't really want him to make the Hobbit, he thought what can I do to get back at them...I know an audit of the books...much back-stabbing ensues

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 7:26 a.m. CST

    Fuck you Robert Shaye and New Line

    by MasterKenobi

    I´ve been critical in mention of Peter Jackson in the past about Kong and Halo, but that had more to do with creative choices on Kong and the too high budgets for Kong and Halo. But this is just fucking insane from New Line to attack a director like this, who brought them more money than all other directors in all their history as a studio. Shaye says he gave the director a quarter billion, fine, but then he goes on and reveals how much more Jackson should get, 50 to 100 million if Jackson . Of course he should sue those fuckers. He calls Jackson arrogant, and says he Shaye has been in this business for so many years: Well it´s time for you to retire, you old dumb fuck. You are the arrogant one. Jackson brought you on the map with the trilogy and you haven´t paid him enough. Someone said Jackson should forget about this business, go ahead and make the Hobbit and earn more money than from suing New Line. I´m sorry but it´s always better to get what should have been yours in the first place before you go ahead and work with a company again which tried to screw you.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 7:48 a.m. CST

    A Hobbit movie could only work if...

    by Doctor_Sin

    They renamed Smaug "Robert Shaye" and had him say, "Fuck you, Jackson" as he counted his gold.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Brett Ratner's THE HOBBIT

    by biggles2_22

    The of the limited possibilities.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:02 a.m. CST


    by biggles2_22

    Think of the limited possibilities. bad morning...sheesh!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    WELL DONE NEW LINE !!!!!!!!!!

    by whatever57

    Bob Shaye is TOTALLY correct on this. Jackson signed a LEGAL CONTRACT with New Line and should NOT have signed if WETA didn't *originally* agree to the terms. Do you see Alfonso Cuarón, Mike Newell or Chris Columbus doing the same trick since they directed ROWLING'S work ?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:20 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    Hmmm, don't recall ever seeing you in TB before.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:30 a.m. CST

    Quint... RE: GIBSON...

    by -guyinthebackrow

    I'm suprised that (when you were writing about Mel and "The Passion" and how much money he had) you did also write about how much money Mel was owed but (much like Peter Jackson) actually got. PJ apparently got screwed by the studio. Mel got screwed by the theatre owners. You see when you're a big Hollywood distribution house the theatre owners will always give you back the money that you deserve, however, when you use a small distribution house some theatre owners will 'cook' their books and say that they really didn't sell that many tickets. The theatre owners will do it to the smaller distribution companies because they aren't afraid of them. It's not like screwing over Warner Brothers. If you did that then WB just wouldn't let you show the next Batman movie or the next Harry Potter movie. So in summation... Mel Gibson took in the ass from the American and International theatre owners. They simply lied about how many tickets they sold and then only gave Gibson a fraction of what he should have been paid. Much like PJ.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Money & Scabs

    by Bedlamite

    P.J. made millions, and people are calling him a greedy bastard for wanting more. How many of you don't occassionaly take a 2nd look at your pay check and make sure it's right? If he made two billion dollars would it matter? If someone says your making X amount of money then you should be paid X amount of money. Not a version of X decided by the guy or gals dolling out the money. As if New Line didn't make alot of cash on the whole deal. Another director takes over the series and does Hobbit, which I don't believe we even need to see, wouldn't he feel like a scab? Maybe a well paid scab, or a scab that had better have a damn good contract and a lawyer, and the ability to suck it up and walk away when he doesn't get the X amount of cash he was promised. As for not covering this anymore on the this site. Hey thanks for picking and choosing the stories based on them being TECHNI-COLORED. Good or bad this is some interesting behind the scenes stuff. If this were a ROCKY BALBOA thing we'd probably be on a ticker running at the top with point by point highlights updated more than a presidential election. This isn't Paris Hilton being called some silly ass name, this is a pretty major even for alot of geeks out there, and I'd like to see it continued being covered at my preferred "news" site. SO COVER IT. Please and thank you.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:49 a.m. CST

    PLANT!!! whateveer57 GOTTA EAT at Newline

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Smells of fish

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:02 a.m. CST

    So Peter Jackson acting like a mature rational adult

    by CrichtonAstronut

    is really an evil manipulative ploy, huh? I guess he's just lucky that Robert Shayne has choosen to act like a spoiled lunatic child. Hey, maybe if Pete's so much better at putting a desent public front for himself and the people he's responsible for and since Shayne is clearly so bad at it, maybe the boardroom boys should make Peter Jackson CEO of New Line.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Jeremy Irons for Aragorn!!!

    by Finklestone

    Third times the charm.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:15 a.m. CST


    by whatever57

    I am not a plant and I don't work for New Line or any other studio at all, never have. Nonsense. This is an objective opinion of a situation. A Director trying to manipulate a Studio's accounting dept. after he signed a legally binding contract IS INSANE. That is suicide. It will be thrown out by the courts. PJ should have negotiated this BEFORE instead of trying to hold THE HOBBIT for ransom AND by using his Tolkien's fans to leverage control. It won't work. You don't see the Potter directors, or any other director doing that do you? Why not ? Isn't that out of control ? It is called not knowing when to stop, not negotiating correctly and manipulating other people's talent while mistaking it for your own.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:22 a.m. CST

    But Doc P., don't you see...

    by Childe Roland isn't a matter of "wrong" and "right?" It's a matter of business that has become a legal matter. How often are wrong and right (in our general sense of those terms and the value judgements we associate with them) even considered in such cases? In this instance, the only "right" anyone is concerned with is their right under the law. PJ had the right to ask to see the books. New Line had the right to refuse. PJ had the right to sue. Both still have the right to (and probably will) settle. The only places where people did anything "wrong" (and the use of this term is wholly in terms of decisions made against what I would've offered as advice) were when Pete took his case to the fans via the media and New Line publicly blacklisted him as a result (both of which, by the way, those parties had every "right" to do...I just think both moves were dumb as fuck-all and will only delay the movie and the settlement). I don't hate PJ. I love his Rings movies. But I think he completely misses the point of the Hobbit (which is not a part of the Lord of the Rings). So I think the best thing that could happen right now would be for PJ and New Line to make nice monetarily while New Line moves ahead on the Hobbit with another director. I think the classy (or "right" by my estimation) thing for both parties to do would be for New Line to invite PJ back any time (knowing full well he probably wouldn't work with them again as a director) and for PJ to offer his blessing on a Hobbit that proceeds without him and in accordance with a vision truer to the source material (even though he'll bash it after it's made and spend hours telling everyone how he'd have done it differently). I don't think either of those things will happen, though, so both PJ and New Line will remain power tools in the giant toolbox that is Hollywood. But none of that has to mean the Hobbit movie we get will be a piece of crap.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:22 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu


  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Brett Ratner's Hobbit, starring Chris Tucker

    by Doctor_Sin

    "Gaaan-Daaalf! Puh-leeeeze! I'm all 'bout gettin' that gold, but daaaaamn - there's a dragon? D'you understand the words that are comin' out of my mouth???"

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Art Buchwald sued over Coming to America

    by RKDN Del Sol

    Its seems that Art Buchwald had writting the original 'one sheet' for the movie, and Paramount said, "uhh, no thanks. that sounds like a pretty stupid movie." Several years later, Eddie Murphy is starring in his movie. He sues Paramount, and Paramount says, "Buchwald is making this all up. He never sent us anything proposing this movie." <p> In court, Buchwald produces a sealed registered letter that he mailed to himself 3 years prior to the movie being filmed - inside is a copy of the letter he sent. He was awarded several million dollars as the uncredited writer of the movie.<p>All this from a 2 minute google, and while I'm not saying my information is 100% authenticated, it at least shows a minimal effort - try it next time, please.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:36 a.m. CST

    The Hobbit is not dead!

    by King_Midas

    Hope is not lost. All we need is for MGM to be smart and realize that they want nothing to do with a $150 million movie that will turn out like Eragon, or worse D&D, and make $50 million because it has absolutely no relation to the cast, crew, and production team that created a franchise that grossed $3 billion worldwide and won something like 20 Oscars. If MGM won’t let Newline distribute the movie in North America, they sure as hell won’t make it at which point the rights can got back to Zaentz and we can all get the PJ version that we want. That’s our best hope at this point. Besides, people need to realize how difficult it is to make high fantasy sound like anything other than childish cheese on the big screen. Reading that sort of dialogue on the page is fine but putting it on film is an entirely different matter. It’s just not pulled off very often and certainly has never been done as spectacularly as PJ did it. If a non-PJ Hobbit is hastily produced (or even if it isn’t and a ton of money is poured into it) there is no reason to believe that it won’t be a total chunk of cheddar like most other fantasy films every produced. And that sort of movie won’t make a lot of money, regardless of its name. People may see it once, but you need a lot of repeat business for a $300+ million box office and I just don’t see that happening under these conditions. Hopefully MGM sees this as well.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Childe Roland

    by DocPazuzu

    I'm sorry, but I can't reach a point where I find it somehow equally bad to (possibly) screw someone out of millions of dollars (no matter how many millions he already has, which is a different ethical and moral question altogether) and to take one's grievances to the public -- even if the latter action (possibly) was a purely self-serving and cynical ploy.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:49 a.m. CST

    whatever57 = someone speaking out of their ass.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    It's about sketchy accounting practices dummy. Contracts are one thing. But numbers don't lie. So, if 2+2=3, then someone needs to doublecheck the books. It's quite common and really quite simple.<P>And your strawman argument about the various Potter directors is fucking laughable.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:51 a.m. CST

    And DocPaz...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...I concure. It was extremely entertaining watching Ringy getting owned like a nOOb. Quint owns nOObs for breakfast.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Ringwearer is such a dope.

    by FluffyUnbound

    "Do you really think that line in his letter about "deep affection for Bob Shaye and all the upper managment at New Line" is anything but the most vicious sarcasm designed to produce the exact opposite feeling in his opponent?" When your opponent takes the low road, you can shame and embarrass him by taking the high road. The REASON Jackson's statement would "produce the opposite feeling" is because New Line's actions have not been worthy of affection or respect in this instance - so proclaiming affection or respect makes them look bad. This is a perfectly legitimate approach to take and if it calls attention to Shaye's shoddy conduct, great. Gandhi did the same thing. Of the two approaches - banning someone from the lot, or using an exaggerated humility to shame your opponent - I know which one I think makes you the bigger dickhead.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:56 a.m. CST


    by Pandas

    I think the entire point is that he DID sign a legally binding contract, and DID negotiate it beforehand, and that New Line have broken that contract by not paying him the amount due. If this proves to be the case then it would not be "thrown out of court".

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Hi Doc

    by moondoggy2u

    I don't think Roland is saying that PJ's somewhat blatant attempt at fan manipulation was as equally unethical as renigging on a contract (if that is in fact what New Line did--we still don't know). All Roland is saying is that everyone involved seems to be acting within their rights, however stupidly. The fact is, none of us will ever truly know what is going on here and I highly doubt Jackson and New Line will copy and past their contract online for us all to see. Basically, its up to the courts to decide, not us. Jackson's use of the fans was just an attempt at hamstringing New Line and pressuring them to capitulate OUTSIDE the courts. Personally, I think its a bum deal to use his fans this way, but hey, thats just my personal opinion.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 10:07 a.m. CST

    On another note

    by Pandas

    I have no idea how American law works, but if a company is suspected of accounting irregularities, does one have to personally take them on to attempt to get the money owed, or is it not a legal matter involving the police and so on? Any lawyers in the house who can explain?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 10:14 a.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    To get the money owed to you, you have to go to civil court (suing). Now, if the case has enough publicity or the DA of whatever jursidiction the case applies has a big enough interest in bringing said guys down, he will bring up criminal charges. Roland is right, however, in that there is a grey area that exists between civil and criminal. Dont let the dollar ammount fool you, New Line MAY NOT have done anything criminal. Hell, they not have even done anything civilly wrong, etiher-thats up to those two parties and an overseer of some kind to decide.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 10:33 a.m. CST

    s mart shopper reveals the troof

    by Deus Vult

    crusading indeed! lo vult is also irregular, attributed to frankish peasants who didn't speak proper french (ie: deus vult! as opposed to deus lo vult! or otherwise). in any case, not familiar with the board game, will for sure check it out.<p>now, to passify those who insist these tb's refer to the movies underwhich they're listed, the entire point of the LOTR trilogy is supposed to be the men of the west fighting a crusade against the barbarians of the east to preserve their way of life. I believe tolkien based it on WWI, but not 100% sure. in any case, PJ is fighting his own crusade vs. new line, just I fight my own crusade against tb'ers who take themselves and this site WAY TOO SERIOUSLY!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 10:37 a.m. CST

    A word on all the pj "fans."

    by moondoggy2u

    Why are you supporting this man's position in the lawsuit? I'm betting most of you have never even met this man, to say nothing of his private business dealings, contracts, contract renegotiations, and the list goes on. <p>So why are you supporting his word over New Line? <p>Is it because he made a few good movies or something? Let me guess, its because he listened to you, the fans, and inserted/deleted certain aspects of his production? Well, how is that any different than new line, who ALSO took the SAME chance and invested in Peter and said production activities? <p>The fact of the matter is that both parties are equally responsible for the success of LOTR. Yes, PJ is the public face and creative side of LOTR, but New Line took a TREMENDOUS chance by giving PJ a vertual blank check. Both of these film creators (because that is what New Line is) deserve equal treatment from you fans because both are equally responsible for your adulation. <p>But thats not happening, is it? No, Peter Jackson stirred a hornets nest of ignorance and passion in the hopes of blasting a fanboy salvo at New Line's other business progects, to say nothing of the Hobbit and everyone who will be involved in it. How many posts have we already seen where some nut declares his undying loyalty to PJ and his intention to boycott New Line?<p>Just keep in mind that we the public have no say so in reguards to this disagreement, nor do we even possess KNOWLEDGE of whats actually going on. All you guys are doing is acting on faith to the publicity of a man you've never met nor dealings you've ever procurred, which, I think, is a very scary thing. Personally, I detest being used and will not partake in this...lust that many of you seem to relish.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:18 a.m. CST

    An example of the problem

    by moondoggy2u

    Weta, the effects house that PJ created via the investment of New Line's Fellowship of The Ring budget is now run by PJ and NOT New Line. Was this stipulated in his contract or was this a grey area? Could the budget of LOTR been decreased by simply paying ILM to do the effects? When you think about it, the trilogy didnt need effects work from Weta. Why did it need to invest in the creation of a company when ILM was right there the entire time? Remember, Gollumn's true realization didnt occur until after the release of Fellowship; it was a last minute decision to use MOCAP and not fully rendered cgi (or whatever the exact term is). So, from the studio's point of view, unneccessary dollars were spent on the creation of a Jackson-controlled cgi production house, while Jackson reaps the benefits for years to come as competition to ILM. Does this sound ethical? I'm sure it could be argued both ways, especially if you consider that the contract with Jackson might not include the creation and sole ownership of Weta. <p>No, I'm not trying to encourage yet more debate over who is the damsel in distress and who is the son of a bitch with a black coat. All Im trying to do is illustrate the point that there is a grey area between ethical, legal, and moral, and this case looks like it falls into that area, especially considering Peter's antics.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:25 a.m. CST

    This is NOT about Peter's ego

    by performingmonkey

    He doesn't give a fuck about the money he's personally owed, it's all his Wingnut employees that got shortchanged.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Darth Sidious

    by moondoggy2u

    They are EXTREMELY lazy. 1)This site's format is waaayyy out of date. 2)The information concerning "that guy" was 3 or 4 mouseclicks away (I love wikipedia). 3)The entire time spent pontificating over "The PJ Conundrum" could have been better spent RESEARCHING a valid, and documented, point-by-point analysis of the issue. Then again, well informed opinions and professionally written pieces arent exactly this site's forte, are they? Nope, here at AICN, we get glorified message blogs about rumors and "golly gee whiz, this will fucking rule" post-it notes. Ahh well, the forums are still the bees knees, for me.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:33 a.m. CST

    "when Pete took his case to the fans"

    by CrichtonAstronut

    Well I might agree that it would have been a foolish ploy to hamstring New Line if I thought it were ploy. Which I would find easier to beleive if there anything in the letter to the fans that seemed at all enflamatory, or calculated to provoke a seige on the studio. The letter itself seemed be a response to questions already being asked. He indicated that he beleived the suite was common knowledge, and if wasn't it almost certainly would have been without his statement. And it was a well thought out level headed response at that. It had none of the angry acuusatory tone that Shayne's comments had and I see no reason to assume that was anything but an effort allay the bitterness and anger by fans and executives that unfortunately occured anyway. And now he's taking the high road again. I don't know what other people are seeing, but regardless of whose right or wrong the legal front. All I've seen is Peter Jackson behaving with a great deal more class than Robert Shayne, who apparently hasn't even bothered to familiarize himself with the case("...whatever he's suing us for.") still can't beleive he doesn't know.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:39 a.m. CST


    by Still Crazy

    They all need cheese to go with their whine. The whole whiny ass bunch. Hell maybe Bush can send in 20,000 troops, ten thousand to each side and let them off each other. whine whine piss piss moan moan. blah blah. SSDD.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:39 a.m. CST


    by epitone

    This is just another good example of how Hollywood continues to treat big stars like kings and considers anyone behind the camera to be disposable. The ridiculous accommodations made for name actors are accepted as a necessary evil (Martin Lawrence is shooting up the 405? Well, at least that guy can open a movie!) whereas good and fair business practices are avoided like the plague. Calling Jackson greedy is missing the point entirely, and it's not even true. He's said that he's willing to accept whatever conclusion an independent auditor of New Line's books comes to. Hell, he might have to GIVE BACK money if it turns out they overpaid him. Not that that will happen, of course -- because don't you think New Line would be throwing open the ledgers left and right if they thought there was a chance of that? Do you think that offering him The Hobbit as an olive branch was anything other than a clever attempt to look good to their board and shareholders? "Look, we saved you guys a few hundred mil on the audit AND opened up about twenty new revenue streams. Bust out that champagne!" I respect Jackson for refusing to get into this silly game even if it ends up costing him money and a film property he loves. His Hollywood outsider perspective is what brought him success in the first place, after all. And finally... $250 million for all three films? Tom Cruise has made more than that for the three Mission: Impossible flicks. And they've grossed about half of what the LOTR series has done. Spielberg made $250 million from Jurassic Park alone, plus another $72 million from Jurassic Park III on which he was an executive producer in name only.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Bob Shaye's perspective...

    by mr. brownstone

    is probably that he made Peter Jackson famous and very rich by greenlighting LOTR, and he's probably pissed that now he's come back to bust his balls over nickels and dimes (relatively speaking). Not taking a side, just saying. On the other hand I can't help but feel it seems a tad petty for Jackson to do this to the studio that for lack of a better word "made" him. The movies are great but Jackson also got very lucky... the expression don't look a gift horse in the mouth comes to mind.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Jackson got lucky?

    by epitone

    I think New Line got sliiightly luckier. Before LOTR, in the post-DeLuca haze, they were in danger of collapsing financially. Now they have a $3 billion trilogy to their credit, their first Best Picture Oscar in their 40-year history, and with those accolades the ability to draw the kind of world-class talent who easily would have shunned them prior to 2001.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Since when is hard work...

    by morGoth

    ...considered "lucky?" PJ worked his ass off for years coming up with the solutions on how to make LoTR happen. His work in presenting "how my team will do this" is what impressed the New Line suits (Shaye, I believe) to greenligh a three movie production instead of two that PJ pitched. Luck my ass...hard work and talent.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:08 p.m. CST

    PJ created Weta Digital

    by DinoBass

    for Heavenly Creatures, and what became Weta Workshop started well before that movie.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:16 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Yeah, an effects house that did second-hand visuals for television and one PJ movie--the frighteners. I remember watching the FOTR documentary about Weta having to hire a slew of new people to do the effects--that company, although in existence prior to LOTR, was nothing but a TV visual company that was heavily invested and rebuilt due to New Line's investment in PJ--nothing more.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:34 p.m. CST

    Thanks for clarifying my point, moondoggy.

    by Childe Roland

    I wasn't insinuating that Peter's dumb call was as "bad" (and, again, I think the assigning of moral judgements to a legal dispute based solely on money is, in and of itself, a bad idea) as what New Line may or may not have done (we don't know that New Line did anything. We're assuming based on the cards they've chosen to play in this game. We know what Peter did because, well, he addressed it to us). I'm just saying Peter's cast himself in a certain light that many seem all too eager to hold as "right" wihtout even knowing the entire truth. I'm trying to keep things in perspective because I know all-too-well the ways in which hyperbole and media manipulation can be used to create truths of perception (which can often impact the outcome of legal proceedings but, in this case, likely will not). Anyway, it's good to see all the more thoughtful regulars participating in the discussion, 'taint it?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Chricton, you have to know the letter was carefully...

    by Childe Roland

    ...crafted specifically to make Peter seem very straightforward and innocent. Why would he want to come off as otherwise? This is basic PR/spin control stuff and Petey would probably be pretty good at it (given his artistic sensibilities and feel for folks' emotions) even if he couldn't afford the best spin doctors money could buy. Heck, New Line should've hired the same folks to look at Shaye's dumbass response.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 12:46 p.m. CST


    by DinoBass

    I think your point was that New Line would have saved money by using ILM instead of Jackson expanding WETA? I think the budget on all 3 movies was around $300 million. I can't imagine making those movies for less than that no matter who you hire for the FX, and certainly you wouldn't have had people who were as dedicated to the project. In any case, New Line in no ways has any whiff of ownership in Weta.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1 p.m. CST

    Peter Jackson is a SNEAKY, LYING, WEASEL

    by Ringwearer9

    Look at this original article on, where Jackson sent his letter explaining the situation.<br><br>(edit out the AICN inserted space after you paste it into your browser)<br>Let me point out a specific admission by Jackson.<p>"We have also said that we do not want to tie settlement of the lawsuit to making a film of The Hobbit. In other words, we would have to agree to make The Hobbit as a condition of New Line settling our lawsuit. In our minds this is not the right reason to make a film and if a film of The Hobbit went ahead on this basis, it would be doomed. Deciding to make a movie should come from the heart - it's not a matter of business convenience. When you agree to make a film, you're taking on a massive commitment and you need to be driven by an absolute passion to want to get the story on screen. It's that passion, and passion alone, that gives the movie its imagination and heart. To us it is not a cold-blooded business decision."<p> A couple of months ago there was a flurry of Hobbit news in the media. MGM, who own a portion of the film rights in The Hobbit, publicly stated they wanted to make the film with us. It was a little weird at the time because nobody from New Line had ever spoken to us about making a film of The Hobbit and the media had some fun with that. Within a week or two of those stories, our Manager Ken Kamins got a call from the co-president of New Line Cinema, Michael Lynne, who in essence told Ken that the way to settle the lawsuit was to get a commitment from us to make the Hobbit, because "that's how these things are done". Michael Lynne said we would stand to make much more money if we tied the lawsuit and the movie deal together and this may well be true, but it's still the worst reason in the world to agree to make a film."<p> NOTE what Jackson says. "Michael Lynne said we would stand to make much more money if we tied the lawsuit and the movie deal together, and this may well be true". Jackson ADMITS that he would make more money if he stopped trying to embarrass New Line with a lawsuit. Why isn't this an acceptable compromise for him? Why does he HAVE to settle the lawsuit prior to to allowing himself to get all excited about the film? Elsewhere in that letter he says that he had never been told, (prior to being informed he would no longer be director on the Hobbit and the LOTR prequel), that there was a limited time option on the rights to The Hobbit. Since Jackson's stated reasons for NOT taking a deal "It would the the wrong reason for making a movie" come across as so phony (he goes on about the heart and passion one needs for a movie, that making a smart business decision like rolling the lawsuit into the contract would spoil ... won't signing the contract before making the movies also spoil it?) seem like such transparent lies, it means, to me, that Jackson is probably lying about his real reasons for refusing the offer, and continuing with the lawsuit. Jackson probably DID know about the limited time option on the rights for LOTR. If he didn't know, Mr. Zaentz was probably reminding him, and wooing him with dreams of bigger paychecks than New Line seemed willing to give Jackson. So what is the lawsuit REALLY about, if it isn't about more money for Jackson than he'd get from continuing the lawsuit? He is Deliberately stalling, and antagonizing New Line, on the gamble that New Line will not be able to replace him and WETA, that the rights will revert to Zaentz, and he'll get an even bigger wad of money (he imagines), in line with the big wad of money he got for the underperforming King Kong. (This is what's driving his ego now ... he won't deal with anyone who won't pay him his overinflated sense of worth based on what he got for that Bomb). It's all Phony. Jackson's explanation that resolving the lawsuit would ruin the Purity of his film-making is transparently false (what, did he refuse a bigger payday for King Kong on that basis?) so I don't believe ANYTHING he says, and none of you should either.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1 p.m. CST

    You see, Dinobot?

    by moondoggy2u

    Just on that point alone, we can argue over whether or not it was truly in New Line's best interest to have Weta digital do FOTR's visual effects. Same thing goes for this spat (which is all this is) between Wingnut and Newline--an argument can probably be made for both parties. As for Shaya's comments, please keep in mind that PJ did use the fanboy alliance (always wanted to say that) BEFORE shaya made his comments. True, Shaya's rhetoric and actions were ALSO less-than profesional, but don't tell me that PJ is taking the high road, or other such nonsense. <p>My personal opinion is that New Line did fudge their numbers. Hell, I've never worked for a single company/institution that DIDNT practice "creative accounting." Still, the proper way to deal with such issues is through arbitration, not taking potshots at the entire company and shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to future deals. Just my take, though.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Ringwearer9 to play Bilbo

    by kirttrik

    It's that, Stallone, or possibly Will Smith. That guy can do anything

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Jackson was never aware the rights would expire?

    by Ringwearer9

    Just to emphasize that. In his original letter he said that it came as a surprise to him that the rights were going to expire in a relatively short time. This strikes me as SO unlikely that it casts his lawsuit in a whole new light, especially when I consider the post further up about Jackson's lawyers going out of their way to concoct "interesting" new legal theories for this case. The lawsuit it a time staller, to force New Line to abandon any hope of getting into production on time before the rights expire, so that Jackson could get an even bigger payday with Zaentz.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:11 p.m. CST

    If it can't be done right it shouldn't be done at all

    by kirttrik

    If it can't be done right it shouldn't be done at all. If Shaye successfully blocks Jackson I don't want to see any version of the hobbit anytime soon. I don't want to relive another Episode I debackle. Another series ruined by greed and bad decision making. I'd rather wait five to ten years from now and get the Brain Singer homage to Jackson with the suped up special fx and 3-D treatment that will probably be available. I don't want another of my favorite series ruined, not again...not again. Please god, not again.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:13 p.m. CST

    hey, no worries, child

    by moondoggy2u

    You and quite a few others on here are usually pretty civil. Believe it or not, you and I are usually on the same page more often than not. What can I say? I love playing the devil's advocate! ;) <p>You are right, of course, about assigning morality to civil suits. I'm curious, however...did your BS detector go off during PJ's initial "stirring of the masses?" To be perfectly honest, I've always found Jackson to be a very likable person, but my detector did let out a blip or two nonetheless. I'm not saying New Line is an innocent angel or anything, but it did seem a bit overly dramatic for such a simple lawsuit. Yes, I realize its millions of dollars at stake, but to my understanding, in the game of hollywood (and other businesses), a lawsuit is a typical thing. Oh well, I suppose asking everyone to simmer their passions down about situations that they, myself included, know nothing about is akin to taking a piss in the middle of a hurricane.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:16 p.m. CST

    ILM or WETA

    by DinoBass

    Actually, I don't think New Line cared one way or the other. They just put up the cake. Whether the FX budget went to ILM or WETA, as long as the movie got made on time and on budget (and I think it was), New Line's best interest was being served.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Kirttrick, you should read the books.

    by Ringwearer9

    Then you won't be at the mercy of the complicated film business, which guarantees NO consistency over time. Seriously.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Clearly PJ is in the right

    by Nabster

    Assuming PJ is telling the truth in that New Line is refusing an audit of the movies accounts. This is common practice to ask for the audits, I cannot think of many instances in studios refusing to flat out give any audit accounts at all. Usually the problem arises from the figures of the Audit, their autheticty and all. For instance, as I incompletely mentioned before, the audit for Shakespeare in love showed the movie was in the red by $100 million dollars, courtesy of Havey Wienstien! Whether its an act or not, PJ has conducted himself much more professionally and not made it so personal as Bobbie has, which is a shame because I think it is ploy which will only backfire.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Oh, yeah, moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I perked up right away when that PJ letter came out. And my initial internal response was appreciation for what a tactically saavy move PJ was making. But when I saw folks swallowing the whole thing without question and calling for New Line's blood, I piped up about it on the talkbacks and got quite a few folks irritated with me. A lot of people assume I'm a Jackson hater and nothing could be further from the truth (I even enjoyed King Kong to an extent). But, as good as his Rings movies were, in interviews Jackson has made me pretty nervous about how much he "gets" the Hobbit (which, again, is NOT intended as a prequel to the Lord of the Rings). Maybe if I thought he was a better fit for this particular film, I'd be less inclined to look at things objectively.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:32 p.m. CST

    There's that grey area, dinobass

    by moondoggy2u

    Lets say I'm someone who decides to make an investment in your company. A shareholder, if you will. In all business ventures, shareholders do have say so. Now, if you tell me that part of my investment goes to your private company and then tell me that I have no say so in said company, I might have a few reservations reguarding our relationship. True, you are netting me a profit, but is it the maximum profit? Who's best interest is being served in such a scenario? <p>Try this on for size, dino. Say you're in charge of the division of New Line that is responsible for financing a progect that I'm creating, lets call it Moondoggy Does Gidget, okay? Well, your division and I hammer out a budget in which I tell you I will need a set budget for effects--lets say an even 20 million. However, after I get the money, I turn around and use my own company, virtually reoutfitting them with all the new stuff and turn out effects that could be done at ILM (or the effects house of your choice) for 10 million. In whose interest did that budget decision serve, Dino?<p>As I said earlier, Dino--my Weta v. ILM point was made to illustrate the problem with the larger debate; we don't know the full facts and based upon conjecture alone and removing petty fanboyism, a valid argument can be made for both parties. There simply is not enough information to make a decision either way.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Peter Jackson is full of shit

    by mrbong

    during his contrived filming of those books about the wandering dwarf and his homosexual friends, Peter Jackson promised that he was going to make another Bad Taste film. instead he made a mess of King Kong with that twat Jack Black in it, and now he is fannying around trying to extract even more money, probably to make yet more shit with Jack Black. he can fuck the fuck off, he can.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:34 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Well, my detector certainly was singing a tune. If you ask me, if he wants us fans to stick up for his side of the argument, if he truly wants to use us for his PR, then he needs to post his contract to New Line for all the web to see. AFter all, he wants our help, doesnt he? If he does anything short of that, I'll remain dubious to his position. A familiar argument, no?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:44 p.m. CST

    i agree Cuaron would do better Hobbit than Jackson

    by pipergates

    Jackson did ok with LOTR,at times excellent,but he's a bit of a hack too,uneven.His dramatic moments are way exagerated,soap opera.Cuaron did Potter and all the fantasy spotlessly,he's a better storyteller, Children of Men is one of the best movies ever.He`s got soul and he's got consistancy.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 1:57 p.m. CST

    I only know one person who says "Fuck the fuck off"

    by Doctor_Sin

    And he's British. What does this mean? I don't know -

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Of course the studio fucks its talent/employees

    by Rupee88

    That's just good business. This whole thing is just a business make it personal on either side is just retarded, but I suppose they are trying to "spin" it for public consumption. The odds are high that Jackson is in the right with this one and I hope his lawsuit goes through and he gets what he is contracted to get.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Oh just fuck off Ringwearer9!

    by Talkbacker with no name

    It wouldn't be so bad if you actually read what other people wrote and responded to that instead of your insane Jackson hate bullshit! <p>You do know you are considered a fucking joke here, right?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Doctor_Sin, I'm British

    by Talkbacker with no name

    just means fuck off +10 <P>example: Fuck the fuck off Ringwearer9!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Where's Sly Stallone when we need him?

    by Doctor_Sin

    He could bust a whole room full of lawyers in the mouth.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Ian Holm

    by Finklestone

    Ian Holm isn't going to play Bilbo no matter who directs The Bobbit - he's too old. Ronnie Corbette should get the part.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Art Buchwald.

    by Jack Parsons

    "Someone sued Paramount over COMING TO AMERICA" Art Buchwald. He said the movie was based on a script that he had sent to them. He won.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Talkbacker with no name

    by just pillow talk

    Now what happens if "fuck the fuck off" is used against a talkback name with a number attached to it? Does that become a multiplication forumula? So "Fuck the fuck off Ringwearer9!" is (fuck off + 10) x Ringwearer9 = 90 fuckoffs. Did I forget to carry the one or is my math correct?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:36 p.m. CST

    learn your film history

    by chrishistory

    Before people go committing to one side or the other, you should learn something about the history of commercial film especially Hollywood. Cheating people out of money using creative bookkeeping goes back to the first films in the Silent Ear. In fact, United Artists studios was formed in 1919 by four of the biggest people in Hollywood - top director D W Griffith, the beloved Charles Chaplin, most popular female star Mary Pickford and the swasbuckling adventure star Douglas Fairbanks. They wanted to control their careers including their finances and payouts. Right after World War II, three of the biggest directors/producers in Hollywood bucked the system to form Liberty Films to get a better deal than they had from the major studios. Frank Capra, William Wyler and George Stevens and later even John Ford worked with them. Everybody should go to Wikipedia and read the details of the Art Buckwald vs. Paramount case and see what the studios are capable of. The NEw York Times ran an excellent article a year ago called "Lawsuit of the Rings". A decent search engine can find it quickly. It details all the financial information about LOTR that you can handle and then some. None of this has anything to do with your or mine personal opinion about what we liked or did not like about the LOTR films. It has everything to do with a written contract and its enforcement. And for those who think that this months Favorite Director Flavor of the Month could helm the HOBBIT as well as Jackson, perhaps you can name me anyone else who made 3 films that collectively have taken in $4 million dollars, been almost universally praised by legitimate critics, and won 17 Academy Awards including Best Film. Nobody in the history of the biz has done what Jackson did with LOTR - stories that Tolkien himself thought were largely unfilmable.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:39 p.m. CST

    just pillow talk, by george I think you have got it!

    by Talkbacker with no name

    well done, old bean!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 2:47 p.m. CST

    New LInes attorney laughs at claimants

    by chrishistory

    Here is an exact quote from the attorney for New Line cinema regarding the Jackson lawsuit. You can see his calloused and jaded attitude against claimants and is used to bullying them forcing them to walk away with only pennies on the dollar. These are his words... from the New York Times article "Lawsuit of the Rings" To defend itself, New Line has hired Robert Schwartz, the head of entertainment litigation at O'Melveny & Myers, who has gone against Mr. Stein in many profit participation cases. Mr. Schwartz declined to comment on the specifics of Mr. Jackson's claims, except to say that he is accustomed to dealing with litigants "who say they're not going to settle for anything less than 100 cents on every dollar in dispute." He added that "in my experience, these are the guys who in the end walk away with a nickel on every dollar." --------------- Almost everyone who has fought the studio accounting system has ended up with only a portion of what was due to them --- and their own attorney says that is what usually happens. This is what they expect Jackson to do. This is what they attempted to do with Jackson in dangling THE HOBBIT in front of him. Even now they probably are willing to write off THE HOBBIT just to preserve the so called integrity of their studios accounting practices. How anyone with a brain can defend them is beyond my understanding.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3 p.m. CST

    chrishistory, the problem is

    by Talkbacker with no name

    A lot of the people here who side with Newline are not interested in researching, learning or reading anything. They think they know it all and they are right. There is no talking to these people like Ringbearer9 on any level...sad but true

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Ringwearer9 and Will Smith to remake LOTR the right way

    by kirttrik

    It would be so easy to make this film the right way. Unfortunately, a studio that got it's legitimacy from these films is ruining their chances to ever be taken seriously again. Except, of course, for those die hard fans of the Final Destination trilogy. It's more than continuity at stake here, it's quality film making.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:11 p.m. CST

    sad but true

    by chrishistory

    Talkbacker is right - some people think they know everything and do not let facts get in the way. Also in my first post above, I made a typo error --- the figure I meant to give for the collective financial take of the LOTR films was FOUR BILLION dollars - no 4 million as it was typed. Hopefully anybody who has made three films can claim total revenues of at least 4 million dollars. Jacksons count with LOTR was 4 Billion according to the NY TImes business section. That was nearly 3 billion from the films in theaters and another 1 billion from DVD sales and merchandising.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Pete's a class act

    by crat0s

    A true story teller, with respect for both people and the craft. Shaye is just another abrasive, wannabe Hollywood gangster. Everyone ripping Jackson might have their time better spent watching THE COVENANT... it's be right up your alley.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Well, chrishistory, first off...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I don't think anyone's defending New Line other than to say that everything they've done in regards to this lawsuit is well within their rights. They've handled things rather ham-fistedly, in my opinion (with the blacklisting and the statement you quoted from their attorney), but so far their actions in response to Jackson's have been pretty standard stuff. The issue of what they may or may not have done to precipitate Jackson's lawsuit is really nothing I or anyone else is in any position to defend or condemn because it hasn't been proven they did anything yet. We can only judge things that we have knowledge of (unless you're of the prejudicial sort, in which case I'll just stop typing with you now and save us both a whole lot of time). We can judge things that have Jackson's manipulation of the fan base and Bob's blustering, juvenile response (the former of which I find distatsteful and dishonest and the latter of which I find just plain stupid). But unless you're privy to a lot of informatuion that wasn't in that Times article, there's no way you can conclusively say what New Line did or didn't do in this instance. An auditor and possibly an arbitrator are going to have to sort that out, and we can all decide who was in the wrong then. Meanwhile, I simply will not hear people's cries that Jackson just wants to make the movie we all want bceause, first, Jackson clearly doesn't just want that. He wants the money he believes he's owed above all or he'd have made the Hobbit while his suit was pending. And, second, he's made it clear in interviews that he doesn't want to adapt the source material of the Hobbit directly. He wants to piece together a full-blown prequel (or two) to his trilogy out of made up shit and stuff he's nicked from appendices to the trilogy. The Hobbit came first and, before Tolkein's re-write of Riddles in the Dark to provide what is essentially a single connective thread, had nothing to do with the trilogy except for a common setting and a couple of recurring characters (was Cujo a prequel to Needful Things or Pet Semetary a prequel to Insomnia simply because they are referenced in a line or two?). It was and still is its own story -- achildren's story in the tradition of Grimm's fairy tales that uses comic and horrific fantasy elements to impart a lesson (that being, there's no place like home after a great adventure). So Pj doesn't want to give all of us fans (both of Tolkien's works and PJ's adaptations so far) the movie we want.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland, I disagree

    by Talkbacker with no name

    It sounded like the movie I wanted!

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:35 p.m. CST


    by Kraken

    You're a dolt and obviously don't have clue one as to what you're talking about. Jackson's lawsuit has nothing to do with stalling the production of Hobbit. Lawsuit or no, New Line can still make the Hobbit whenever they please to. They just won't make it with Jackson if they continue to hide the books from him, when he has every right to audit them. Would you work for someone you thought was hiding something from you and being dishonest? Also, as far as being paid an over-inflated salary, I don't believe he's going to make $20 million for directing Lovely Bones (his next movie) as an up front director's fee like he did with Kong. So if he's only interested in money, I don't think he'd be doing Lovely Bones. Also you should know, we're all laughing at your idiocy. So keep on typing, it's just turning up the lamp on your stupidity with every post.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:38 p.m. CST

    If ILM had done the FX for all 3 films

    by DinoBass

    do you think the budget would have been less than 300 million dollars, moondoggy? I can't imagine that. The budgets for the SW prequels were around 340 million combined, and that was with ILM giving Lucas it's services for a pretty good cut-rate, I'd bet. Van Helsing had a production cost of 160 million, and look what that gets you.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:42 p.m. CST

    "The seedy underbelly of Hollywood"

    by Amy Chasing

    well, Hollywood is a part of the real world after all. I can only hope who ever's in the right will win the court case, but this rarely ever happens. Not cynicism, just reality.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Lawsuits killed my father...

    by Womb2dooM

    ...and raped my mother! ringworm69 is a dedicated dope. Good luck to him, the guy/girl/taint knows how to carry a flame.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    In litigation, I always side against the pedophile.

    by Doctor_Sin

    Just a rule of thumb.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland...

    by morGoth do know that Tolkien wrote LoTR as a sequel (in response to prodding from his publishing company) to the Hobbit, yes? I must not get what you're saying as you're usually pretty erudite when it comes to the story. Just curious since the Hobbit and LoTR are part of one long story (see: The Silmarillion). The chapter you mentioned was changed to reflect the nature of the Ring as Tolkien developed LoTR. Cheers...

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:53 p.m. CST


    by Still Crazy

    Since Lucas owns ILM, I would imagine it was free, why charge yourself? Of course he paid his people. Anyway I see both sides, NL should be willing to open its books, and maybe they didn't leave PJ any other option but to sue. However, that said, how does this actually affect me? not much, sure I would love to see a decent Hobbit but even Jackson has made some stinkiers in his lifetime and having sucess with the first three films does not guarantee a hit with The Hobbit. I can find plenty of directors who tanked after a good trilogy, one of which was Lucas, first trilogy stood for 20 plus years until LOTR, second trilogy absolute crap. It's not like Speilberg hasn't done the same thing. M. Night, same thing. Just because PJ did good on the first three stories (books he had not read before beginning the movies BTW, he didn't even know the story) doesn't mean he will do good on the Hobbit. And that is my point, NL and PJ can argue until the cows come home, and PJ can win and might be entitled to that win, but it still doesn't gaurantee he will be able to make the Hobbit as well as he made the other three. Seatle Slew won the triple crown, but I'd be damnned if I'd bet on him now.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 3:56 p.m. CST

    It's important to remember...

    by royalgeekg

    ...that Peter Jackson had searched for years for a distributor for LOTR, and had been dropped by Miramax before being picked up by New Line. By the time New Line made an offer, he was probably so tired of searching (and so inexperienced at judging his own value as this was his first major studio film) that he was willing to sign a contract for a ridiculously paltry amount. This happens so incredibly often in the entertainment industry and it's very likely that PJ is no exception.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Dinobass--this is the last time I'll respond to this

    by moondoggy2u

    For some reason, you seem intent on sweating the small stuff when all I was attempting to do was illustrate a point. The example of Weta being financed was just that: an example so that you could better extrapolate the larger point. <p>For the record, yes, I do believe the films would have been cheaper. Sure, the SW prequels were 340, but those were films that were filmed SEPPERATELY, and thus, were all the more expensive as a result. Had they been filmed at the same time, I've no doubt SW would have costed half to two-thirds the price. Remember, all those transportation costs do add up. <p>In any case, lets not keep up his little weta v. ILM debate. As I said, it was just an EXAMPLE of the kind of debate this legal issue encompasses, one filled with speculation and favoritism and very little fact.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:17 p.m. CST

    morGoth, I wasn't addressing Tolkien's motivation...

    by Childe Roland writing TLOR (which you have to admit is dramatically different in tone and structure than The Hobbit). I was addressing the Hobbit, as it originally stood (and even with the edits made while TLOR was in development). It's a perfectly self-contained children's fantasy that can serve as a jumping on point for a larger universe, but most people I know read the Hobbit as children and didn't even try to tackle the trilogy until they were in their teens. As for the Silmarillion, not only does that make the Hobbit part of the same story as TLOR, it makes the Bible part of that story as well. Let's try to keep things in perspective. I'm pretty sure you know what I mean about Tolkien's original intent with The Hobbit and the way Jackson's approach is contradictory to that on just about every level.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:28 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    I have a question: is it in your experience that a film company would allow an indipendent audit for anybody at any time? Somehow, based upon my experience with companies and universities, I find that a bit dubious. I've never known an institution that failed to fight tooth and nail to prevent an audit.<p>As for Roland's assertions that Jackson do The Hobbit for what would ammount to as free, I'm more inclined to agree with you, Anchorite; Jackson, whether legitimate or otherwise, has no business wasting 2 years of his life for free. Its showBUSINESS, after all. <p>I do think that the larger argument of Roland and myself is that there is little evidence to make a decision either way. Is there a distinct possibility that New Line is screwing over Jackson? Of course, but there is also a possiblity that Jackson is suing for less than austere reasons. The antics of both parties certainly doesnt illuminate the issue, either, whether it be PJ's fan pandering or Shaya's idiotic rebuttles.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Okay let's start recasting! Sean Connery as Gandalf

    by Orionsangels

    Danny Devito as Bilbo Baggins. Crispin Glover as Gollum.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:39 p.m. CST


    by mr. brownstone

    when I said Jackson got lucky I wasn't trying to discount his hard work, obviously. But there was luck involved. For example it was lucky Shaye and New Line saw potential in the at the time dead fantasy genre and a director who had a cult following, some critical acclaim and an expensive flop under his belt.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:43 p.m. CST

    First Petey Jackson lost weight.....

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    and now he lost money. Anyone see a connection?????

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 4:52 p.m. CST

    I back Bob Shaye 100%

    by WesReviews

    This lawsuit shows Jackson's true colors. Bob has been in the business for close to 50 years or so. Jackson, only 15 or so, maybe. Why would Bob put his and his company's reputation on the line by stiffing someone on such a high-profile project as Lord of the Rings? Cellular is the type of movie you'd stiff someone on, to attempt to recoup the money spent. Lord of the Rings made enough money for Jackson that he should NOT be complaining at all. The nerve of some people. Best of luck to Bob and New Line on this one, but I doubt they'll need it. This one seems pretty much open-and-shut, and not in Jackson's favor.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Is New Line justified?

    by Jumping Windows

    OK, imagine if you will, your company enters into a contract with a studio to make a movie that ends up being hugely successful. Despite good intentions and due diligence, there is no way to anticipate every future expense or future source of income that such a blockbuster can create. Certainly, a lot of holes appeared in the contract(s) between Wingnut and New Line. Rights to certain income and responsibility for unforeseen expenses become ambiguous and nobody wants to get jacked. Now imagine that Wingnut sends a team of attorneys and auditors into New Line who get as far as investigating Fellowship of the Ring, and they basically interpret all of these ambiguities (which could and did amount to millions) in Wingnut's favor. But this is not Wingnut's money as a matter of right. Given the same information, New Line's attorneys and auditors could conceivably and legally find these ambiguities in New Line's favor. Can you blame New Line (assuming they've acted in good faith in compensating Wingnut $250,000,000.00) for wanting to close the books on TT and ROTK after Wingnut looked at FOTR and wanted an additional $100,000,000.00 for things that weren't foreseen at the time of the contract. If I was New Line I'd tell him to get the fuck out, too. To me, the company that gambled all the money should get the benefit of the doubt. But, by the same token, out of respect for the material, New Line should just let the Hobbit go. Now, that is where New Line is stupid and greedy. It is not greed to refuse to bow to the attempted extortion by Peter Jackson. That is why Jackson is calm. He has nothing to lose.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:06 p.m. CST

    anchorite--that was the best laugh I've had all day

    by moondoggy2u

    Yeah, it does seem like something fishy is going on at New Line. Then again, it wouldnt be the first time a director has tried to pull a few fast ones over the company, now would it? From what I've understood, Stanley Kubrick was a master at this sort of thing.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:09 p.m. CST

    And anchorite, since you asked twice...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I'll do my best to answer your questions and clear up your misconceptions about my points and position. Bear with me, as I have to answer you point-for-point and in order. You asked: "If you were PJ? Under the present circumstances (prior to the blacklisting, of course - just having to do with the year or so of ungranted audit requests and legal tomfoolery), wouldn't you also postpone any further film projects with those people?" Actually, if I wanted to do something badly enough, I've been known to swallow a certain amount of pride and set aside common sense to do so. But if I were PJ and possessed of the motive he has demonstrated thus far (see my next response to your next question), probably not. "Is it really a matter of PJ wanting the money above all else (the inference being that were he really interested in making the Hobbit he would do so while the lawsuit was pending, and since he's not doing that he must just be interested in the money)?" You're making two different assumptions there, only one of which is congruent with my position. I believe PJ has a list of priorities concerning his relationship with New Line and the Hobbit. The money he believes he's owed is clearly his over-riding interest. Otherwise, yes, I believe he would have structured a deal to make even more money than he believed he was owed while filming the Hobbit, which I have no doubt he actually does want to shoot. I just don't think he wants to shoot it as much as he wants the money (or, perhaps, the personal satisfaction of seeing a big studio bow to his wishes, which would make his motive even more petty in my eyes as a fan). "I think you are already making judgements about Jackson's intentions." You're wrong in that regard. I'm making assertions -- hypotheses, if you will -- about his intentions and motives based on his actions and the evidence at hand with no moral or value judgement attached. I am neither condemning nor praising his claimed stance and the only judgements I've passed are on his actions, which are a matter of public record. "And I believe you may be going a bit far in saying that no one can prove that New Line hasn't done anything to precipitate the lawsuit." I would agree with you if that's what I had said. But it isn't. I said no one HAS proven anything yet and I gave at least two examples of people who either do or will have the information necessary to determine what New Line did or didn't do. None of those people have surfaced in any of these talkbacks yet (and probably won't until this matter has been successfully litigated otr, more likely, settled). You do see the difference, right? "PJ's multiple denied requests for an audit is enough to precipitate a lawsuit according to even the most standard Hollywood contracts." No one's saying they aren't. In fact, I've said several times that both parties in this matter have acted well within their rights and according to precedent (except, arguably, the fan letter and the blacklisting) and that their actions have logically led them to the impasse they face now. That's how lawsuits in the business world, even outside of Hollywood, generally come to pass. Someone makes a request they believe to be within their rights given their interpretation of a contract and someone else denies that request based on their understanding of that document or agreement. Someone calls a lawyer. Cue the calliope music and circus clowns. "I know this because I used to work on them with Paramount. They're usually quite complex and very lengthy, and in my personal experience they ALWAYS include verbage about independent auditing of accounts!" Not sure why this warrants an exclamation point, but I have no doubt you are correct. I also have no doubt that verbiage is carefully constructed by one party's lawyer with a future eye toward just this sort of misunderstanding. And it's reviewed and changed (as a matter of common practice) by the other party's attorney with the same thing in mind. To assume any legal document is really that easy to interpret is to put on the blinders you mentioned. They are designed to be complex enough to require highly paid professionals to do just that. "I doubt very much that PJ's people would have left such rudimentary language out of his contracts with New Line." Do you also doubt that New Line's attorneys might have allowed a slight variation on that language into such a contract, creating the impression of the desired security while allowing for some alternate interpreation that creates a loophole large enough for them to negotiate? You can't be that naive. Seriously, look at any contract and tell me it's written in straightforward English not subject to interpretation. And something you wrote yourself doesn't count. I'm not trying to be mean, just pointing out that you're grossly oversimplifying a complex (even by your own admission) process. "I think it's not being prejudicial to say that were New Line to have granted the audits when requested it would have gone a long way toward making them seem less in the wrong." The use of the term 'wrong' is, by its nature, prejudicial if employed after an allegation has been made and before the stipulation to or finding of any wrongdoing by the party so indicted. That's a pretty elementary legal concept. It's why trials change venue and why juries are sequestered. It's why certain statements are disallowed. Would the course of action you outline have avoided the need for a lawsuit? Maybe. Does what they're doing instead make New Line appear as though they have something to hide? About as much as it makes Jackson appear to care only about money (a position I've cleared up above as not being mine...remember, I just think he's demonstrated that he cares MOST about the money in this instance). New Line could simply be sticking to their principles, which they believe they are in the right on. Maybe they don't feel they should have to open their books and are confident that the legal experts who review their contract language will back that interpretation. "Are they bilking PJ and others for substantial monies? THAT we do not know at this time." And here you seem to finally grasp my point. I'm not saying the lawsuit is unwarranted. I'm saying it could have been avoided had either PJ or New Line chosen a different course of action. But now that the suit's in swing, it's WAY premature to declare a victor or classify either party as being in the 'wrong' or the 'right.' "Are they obstructing the process by refusing to allow auditors to conduct their business in New Line's books? That seems to be apparent." You say that as though every studio always opens its books to every request. Yet we've heard that such lawsuits are fairly commonplace (indicating not all studios simply bend over and open their books) and that actors and directors regularly settle for pennies on the dollar. Sounds to me like New Line is moving the existing process (flawed though it may be) along as per precedent. The only hiccups in that process seem to have been Jackson's manipulation of the fan base and New Line's public blacklisting (I'm fairly certain all studios keep a naughty and nice list on actors and directors they will and won't work with, they just don't announce it). "And by the way, if the contract stipulated access to the books, then New Line is clearly NOT within their rights as you would so blithely claim." I haven't blithely claimed anything (and is it even possible for you to carry on a conversation without trying to insult someone you disagree with?). I've very obviously given this a good deal of thought and am genuinely interested in other people's interpretations or I wouldn't be bothering to type a response to you clarifying a position (mine) you grossly misrepresented to bolster your argument. Go back and read the statement of yours I just quoted. Do you see the "if" near the beginning? That's a pretty big fucking "if" and is the very thing that will need to be determined before any audit or accounting of just how much money went where even takes place. A judge or arbitrator is going to have to read the contract that neither you nor I have seen and determine if that language is structured in that way, without contingency or predication upon some other unfulfilled condition. You seem like a relatively smart guy, but you and I put together would probably have trouble coming to an agreement on that even if we had the document in front of us. Determining that without the document or the sworn testimony of someone who's seen the document is objectively impossible. "It is sad that such a beloved franchise is embroiled in such a legal pissing match." This we can agree wholeheartedly about.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:12 p.m. CST

    And whoa, moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...when did I ever say Jackson should do the Hobbit for free?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:12 p.m. CST


    by Jumping Windows

    Had to make my first gotta eat post.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Windows--you make a good point.

    by moondoggy2u

    I would still think that were things more fair, Pete would get half the money, but this entire thing could have been handled better by Pete. Hell, imagine if you're peter jackson and you want to actually do some films in the future BESIDES LOTR. Well, one way to go about it is let bygones be bygones and notify New Line that you are aware of the imbalances in accounting, but are willing to be magnanimous so long as you are given the green light on a few other progects. In other words, through the art of politics, you are allowed free reign, a better image, more loyalty with a production company, and quite possibly more money in the long run. Instead, we get PJ stirring up the fans, who will ignorantly and blindly assume that PJ is God among Men since he gave them some entertaining films, thereby screwing over future productions. Yes, Pete is probably getting the shorter end of the stick, but fairness stops at kindergarten, as they say. This entire situation could have been handled much, much better.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:24 p.m. CST

    I hear Bob Shaye is also hiding alien autopsy footage

    by Doctor_Sin


  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Now, you're turn-what else is Shaye hiding/covering up?

    by Doctor_Sin

    The secret formula to Coca-Cola?

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:26 p.m. CST

    On the topic of CG costs...

    by Womb2dooM

    Van Helsing may have had a huge budget for CG but that don't mean shit if they've only got a few months to turn it around in. Also, see Mummy Returns and Crab thing at the end.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    You gotta remember, I tend to paraphrase, so I beg your pardon for not quoting you verbatum like a lot of the posters--i'm simply too lazy and it tends to be how I speak in every day language. Anyway, you did say that PJ should do the Hobbit dispite the lawsuit, didn't you? Now, I gathered that this is under the ASSUMPTION that PJ is truly short the ammount he's claiming (I've heard that its anywhere between 50 and a 100 mil). Well, if he were to do the hobbit progect for say 20 or 30 or whatever million he would want, that would be LESS than what he is owed by New Line to begin with, therefore, it would mean that he is doing it for free. That's how I made the inferrence, anyway. Sorry if I got it wrong, though.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Tell me this please

    by chrishistory

    several people have questioned the integrity of Jackson in taking this legal action. Here is the one thing that makes no sense and nobody has explained. If Peter Jackson did not have a good case to make for his being short changed, why would he file suit against the employer who he had previously hit it big with? How does Jackson "WIN" if the eventual facts will go against him? What could possibly be his motivation? Now some clever wit - okay, some half clever halfwit, will come back and call Jackson "a greedy fatfuck" or talk about his taint or some such nonsense. The fact is simple... Jackson must have some very good inside information which leads him to believe he was shortchanged. If his contract allows him the audit - why in the world cannot he get that audit as called for? If the facts and numbers are in favor of New Line and Bob Shaye they should be more than eager to trot them out and shut Jackson up. This kind of publicity does not help them. The TIMES article discussed the idea of corporate vertical integration and how film studios are utilizing it to decrease the films over-all income while boosting the financial bottom line of their parent company. This puts the money into the same corporate pockets but cleverly keeps it out of those who have profit sharing or gross point arrangements with the film studio. For those who may not be up on this, vertical integration as a business practice to increase corporate profits was made an art form by the 19th century business mogul John D. Rockefeller. It works like this. Let us say a large corporation owns a film studio, a soft drink company and a book publishing house among other companies. They take a potentially hot film property, sell the rights to the merhcandising rights on soft drinks for a lowball price to their fellow company. They sell the book publishing rights to their publishing house for a much lower rate than they could get elsewhere. WHY? Because it lowers the films overall income while boosting the revenue of fellow companies. Since the filmmakers have profit arrangements with only the film company, there share of the pie is decreased while the larger corporation gets to keep more for itself. How much stock in the larger corporation do you think Bob Shaye owns? My guess is tons. As far as THE HOBBIT goes - I see no problem with making it consistent in tone and style with the LOTR films since they already have a worldwide audience that is familiar with Middle-earth, Gandalf, Gollum, Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits and even Orcs (or Goblins if you please). Once you get rid of the talking serving animals at Beorns place, there is little there that would interfer with it being consistent with LOTR. Otherwise, just go and see the next NARNIA film with all the talking beavers.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Anyone who says PJ is in the wrong...

    by trojanwilliams

    Knows shit about business. So what if PJ is already worth 200 millon dollars? The fact is he should probably be worth 400 under the contract New Line offered him.<br><br> If New Line didn't want to pay him 400 million they shouldn't have offered him the contract that they did. He has every right to sue them in order to see the books. Once it became apparent that there were issues with FOTR NEw Line opened them selves up to scrutiny fo rthe other 2 films. I hope PJ takes them to the cleaners. Pay the man what you agreed to...

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:31 p.m. CST

    chrishistory sums it up perfectly and PUTS IT TO BED

    by Doctor_Sin

    It's over, folks. Go home. Jackson has a right to ask and he must have a need. IMO, NL is doing the multicorp dance and deserves to have their gazillions stripped and given to the artists. The days of bloated studio fatcats in Malibu will draw nigh.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:37 p.m. CST

    I don't know who's questioned Jackson's integrity...

    by Childe Roland

    ...for suing. I've stated repeatedly that he's well within his rights to do so. I questioned his integrity for manipulating the fanbase with his initial letter in an effort to bring pressure against the studio during negotiations. It's not unheard of, but it isn't in keeping with the spirit of good faith discussion and it's actually frowned on legally.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST

    And moondoggy, I wouldn't nitpick about your...

    by Childe Roland

    ...word choice except that in this instance it's kind of critical to my point. I didn't say he would have made it DESPITE the lawsuit,. I said in once instance that he could have made it while the lawsuit was pending (that was actually on the table) and, in another instance, that he could have made it for an even greater sum of money than he believed he was owed (according to Jackson, at least). Kind of a big difference between those things and free. Petey J gotta eat, after all. ;)

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:37 p.m. CST


    by Womb2dooM

    This all came about coz Fellowship was audited and money couldn't be accounted for (to severely paraphrase several articles). The fact that NL are not worried about public backlash on the way they are dealing with this matter just further shows how huge this settlement could possibly be. P.S. I have left out many details and factors that can be accounted for in the first story and subsequent TBs.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Peter Jackson Needs Satisfaction

    by Doctor_Sin

    Or he put you into traction, cuz you only paid him a fraction, now his legal faction a-gonna go into action.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Christ history--I'm the halfwit that will step up ;)

    by moondoggy2u

    What if Jackson believes he should get a higher percentage based upon extended edition DVDs while New Line insists that since the contract says nothing about royalty fees concerning EDITIONS of said films, they are free to pay PJ base royalties despite the hard work PJ put into those editions so that they'd sell far more copies than regular DVDs? Something as trivial as that could potentially add up to 50 million dollars or more. Granted, I'm sure its probably something else, but thats just one scenario. It could be that New Line's distribution deals with certain overseas companies changed in mid contract due to unforseen circumstances and thus, PJ feels he is entitled to more than what his contract stipulated. Hell, it could also be that Jackson is playing hardball so as to renogiate on some contract with FUTURE editions of his film, such as special edition blue ray or whatever. The point is, there are a thousand possibilities and the idea that ONLY a company can be greedy and not a director (who just happens to be the head of his own company) is a bit naive. Remember, back in the sixties, Kubrick sued another production just so that he could get his product out first (I believe it was Dr. Strangelove). People use the courts for their own advantage all the time, Christ, and PJ would hardly be the first one to do it.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:46 p.m. CST

    That ruled, Doc Sin.

    by Childe Roland

    I'm literally sitting here and chuckling like an idiot after reading it out loud in the voice of Roadblock from the old G.I. Joe cartoon.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:48 p.m. CST

    off topic - this needs a thread

    by oisin5199

    Robert Anton Wilson, author of the Illuminatus trilogy, and overall great thinker - died today.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 5:49 p.m. CST

    ahhh, Roland--I gotcha now.

    by moondoggy2u

    Yeah, thanks for not jumping on my case TOO SOON!;) Still, if he were working while the lawsuit was pending, that means he is still working for a company for less than he is potentially owed, thus making it free, does it not? <p>Thanks for correcting Christ for me--I was about to launch into yet another tirade about how none of us are bitching over his lawsuit as much as we are his using us to further his suit. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if he wants to stir us up into his defense, then he should give us a reason: he should post his contract on AICN. Only then will we ever be acting on anything besides faith in a man for making entertaining films (such a flimsy excuse, if you ask me). <p>Why should we take Jackson's word over New Line? Awnser me that, Christ.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 6:11 p.m. CST

    No studio will want to work with PJ? Puh-leeze

    by epitone

    This is Hollywood. John McTiernan is heading off to do PRISON TIME soon (that's a judicial sentence, not a movie title) and when he gets out I'm sure he'll move right on to directing an $80 million high-concept thriller starring Josh Hartnett and Jessica Alba. Roman Polanski can't even set foot on American soil, but he's still the go-to guy for Oscar-baiting flicks. PJ could steal the money he's owed from New Line's Sunday collection basket and it wouldn't affect his chances of getting work at other studios.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 6:27 p.m. CST

    To all of you who say no one

    by nationalmaverick

    To all of you who say no one will work with Jackson might I remind you that Weta now has a 3 year waiting list? kthxbai

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Petey Jackson was seen drowning his sorrows,

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    at Pizza Hut. He ate somewhere around 35 pizza's and had some taint for desert.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Didn't This Start When Pete "Forgave" Miss America?

    by Read and Shut Up

    ...and then New Line - those fat fucking lesbos! - called him out for it? No? Sorry, wrong gossip.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:41 p.m. CST

    Off-Topic: Talkbacker's Handles

    by Read and Shut Up

    Sorry to stray, but here are the funniest Talkbacker Handles for '07: Harry's Inflatable Fiance - Yoda's Ball Sack - Bender's Shiny Ass - Daddy Long Head - Polyester Rage. Next are the ones which have that certain "mystery" about where they came from: Bringing Sexy Back - Chicky Chow. Most creative? Has to be Banned on the Run.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    moondoggy2u answer is

    by chrishistory

    you do not have to beleive anyone. You do not have to take the word of Jackson or Shaye. Obviously you and I and others are not in the definitive position to act as the judge and jury in this since we do not know all the facts and figures and contract langauge. I have no idea if Jackson is owed millions or nothing. But based on my knowledge of the history of the film business combined with widely known and accepted accopunting practices of todays studios and the drive for corporate vertical integration plus the obsession with todays profits at the expense of the future ... all that rolled together makes me strongly suspect that there is a very strong supposition that Jackson may be correct in this one. When someone has a contract that says they have a right to an audit - and the other party tries to move heaven and earth to stop that audit - it certainly causes me to think that that second party is acting in bad faith. Why would you sign a contract agreeing to an audit in the first place if you later try to ignore it? Only one reason I can think of and Quint called it in his initial thoughts about this whole matter. New LIne is afraid that now only will they owe Jackson money but others as well with profit sharing deals. The name of Saul Zaentz comes to mind. Regarding his so called manipulation of the media and us ... I think some people need to develop a thicker skin about such things. Jackson has a history of being far more fan friendly that traditional Hollywood types. He kept us in the know throughout the LOTR process, kept video diaries and answered questions throughout KONG and feels part of this community. Is that using us or just being part of us? Only he knows for sure. But maybe its a bit of each. Thats fine with me --- as I do not mind his using forums I read for film publicity or even ideas if in return I get inside information. That is one of the reasons I read AICN. YOu do not think for a minute that the professional PR people employed by studios and corporations are not trying to manipulate everyone of us? That is their job. I do not resent them for it - I merely accept it as a fact of life and live with it. Epitone is 100% right about Jackson's employability. He had three top ten grossing movies and the the second billion dollar grosser of all time. If he and Zaentz make a deal three years down the road and decide to auction it off, studios would clamor over each others dead mothers to be the one to make it and cash in. You - and they - can bank on that.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:10 p.m. CST

    further to "Read and Shut Up"...

    by Deus Vult

    while I was supposed to be working today, I was thinking of some of the funniest tb comments I've read these past few days (yes my work is strenuous) and thought about an awards post for the funniest guys. I know, I know, it will annoy the hardcores who don't think this should be a platform for humor but hey that's the breaks. what I never thought of was the comical names of the posters. very smart on your part. naturally I'm very partial to dorothy's taint, for purely innocent reasons of course.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Thanks, Childe

    by Doctor_Sin

    I miss me some Roadblock

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:16 p.m. CST

    If you think you are owed it, then try to get it.

    by Bob Cryptonight

    There is nothing wrong with that. Those of you who think that Jackson is being greedy are idiots.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Of course PJ will work again - jeez!

    by Doctor_Sin

    In a world where Hollywood's favorite child molester, Victor Salva, can come back from that Clownhouse scandal to make Powder and the Jeepers Creepers flicks? Jackson filing a lawsuit pretty much amounts to farting in the elevator.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 9:26 p.m. CST

    What contractual rights?????

    by J-Dizzle

    Sorry, but which contractual rights does PJ feel have been violated? I'm confused.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 10 p.m. CST

    Normally when someone refuses to check

    by LordSoth

    to see if they're wrong. It means they're afraid they're in the wrong. New Line is doing all they can to appear to be guilty.

  • Jan. 11, 2007, 11:02 p.m. CST

    Danielle Harris is Annie Brackett in Zombie's remake.

    by darthbinks1220

    The H4/H5 star is every bit as sexy as Nancy Loomis was in the original. Here's the link for the cast so far.........

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 3:23 a.m. CST

    if newline have nothing to hide

    by slappy jones

    why don't they open the books? and where the fuck is ringwearer?

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 7:45 a.m. CST

    Hi moondoggy and C-Roland

    by DocPazuzu

    I think we might be having a misunderstanding here of sorts. While I make no secret of my gut reaction to side with PJ in this instance, it mostly has to do with how easy it would be for New Line to dispel all rumors by coming clean on the issue. I still leave room for doubt as to who has the shortest end of this particular stick until it's known. My biggest beef is, as I stated in my post, with PJ haters who adopt a line which can be summed up thusly: "Well, maybe New Line is keeping money from him, but he should count himself lucky for the money he DID get, the bastard!" They're pretending that they'd refrain from raising hell if they found themselves in similar circumstances and that agreements dealing with such huge amounts of cash SHOULD be fudged as a rule. All I want is some intellectual honesty in debates, no matter what opinions are held. 'Taint more than that.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 7:54 a.m. CST

    attention Ringwearer9 fans!

    by DocPazuzu

    I make it a point to offer any and all talkbackers in TBs frequented by Ringwearer9 the opportunity to gaze into the depths of Ring-a-ding-doodle's madness. Yes, that's right; for naught but your offered e-mail address, I will personally send you a copy of Ringu's infamous 9-page (that's N-I-N-E pages) review of PJ's King Kong. See for yourselves the deranged rant which had him banned from AICN and gave him the death sentence on twelve systems.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:04 a.m. CST

    do we get a commerative pin if we order now?

    by just pillow talk

    ringy is the best!

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:09 a.m. CST

    just pillow talk

    by DocPazuzu

    ...And a set of steak knives. But wait! There's more! Ringy also wrote a hate-poem dedicated to me back in the day. Order now and I'll include it free of charge. Tell your friends.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:25 a.m. CST

    I am solving this whole problem as we speak

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    I am filming my own version of The Hobbitt that will make these so-called professional film makers weep at their own ineptitude. Intellectual property rights, be damned! Coming to a theatre near you (summer 2008) - Franklin T Marmoset's The Hobbit (I insist on having my name in the title, just like John Carpenter. That is totally non-negotiable, film distributor types).<p>I cannot afford modern computerised effects and whatnot, so I will mostly be using paper mache, origami, claymation, and a Leopold 'Butters' Stotch action figure (playing the part of Bilbo Baggins).<p>This bastard will clean up at the box office, so start queueing now, Lord Of The Rings fans. You, too, Ringmaster9.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:26 a.m. CST

    too bad Christmas already passed us by...

    by just pillow talk

    would have made great stocking stuffers! And to be personally signalled out, why you lucky bastard. It was his equivalent of "The Fountain" to you. How sweet. Will you also include a personal autograph from him?

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:28 a.m. CST


    by Franklin T Marmoset

    Not Ringmaster9, although anyone out there who is named Ringmaster9 is also welcome to check out Franklin T Marmoset's The Hobbit on opening night.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:31 a.m. CST

    just pillow talk

    by DocPazuzu

    I do believe Mr. Marmoset is one of my satisfied customers. Perhaps he could be persuaded to review the item on offer.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:33 a.m. CST

    thanks...since my b-day is coming up

    by just pillow talk

    this will be sweet! Do the copies come laminated or is that extra. I wouldn't want them damaged.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:33 a.m. CST

    People fearful of typing their addresses...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...can look me up in The Zone and PM me there.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:42 a.m. CST

    I dont need a copy.

    by moondoggy2u

    I was there when he first posed that damned thing. Still, it does make a good stocking stuffer...

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:50 a.m. CST

    ok Doc...

    by just pillow talk

    I 'PM'd you. Man, that doesn't sound good....

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Dr Paz and just pt

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    Yes, it is true, I have taken Dr P up on his offer to read Ringthingy9's passionate dissertation on the many ways in which King Kong, Lord Of The Rings, and pretty much Peter Jackson's entire life and career do not meet Ringwhatsit9's detailed and stringent personal criteria for success. Whew. Long sentence.<p>I recommend this document for any fans of deranged psychosis who would appreciate a look into the deep, deep blackness of the obsessional abyss. Beware, however, for when you stare into Ringwearer9, Ringwearer9 stares back into you; which is to say it is kind of funny but also kind of disturbing. I am afraid of Ringwearer9, and I do not often agree with him, but I also admire him, although I worry that my aprobation will encourage and worsen his clearly delusional state.<p>In conclusion, this is a complex issue that I am not equipped to deal with in such a highly caffeinated state. Also, no one sent me any shit when I posted my e-mail addy, which was pretty nice of the internet to respect my privacy like that. Good work, internet.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 9:03 a.m. CST

    J P-Talk

    by DocPazuzu


  • Jan. 12, 2007, 9:10 a.m. CST

    got it dude

    by just pillow talk

    I've reached the "I'll start with the parts I LIKED" paragraph. I'm taking a moment to step back, stretch the legs, and then delve back into this. I will say he is dedicated, and that if he only used his powers for good instead of evil he could quite possibley save the cheerleader, save the world.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 9:17 a.m. CST

    atta boy expressionless

    by just pillow talk

    keep spreading the word. Only 11,590 more talkbacks to go. Don't leave a stone untouched!

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 9:36 a.m. CST

    I'm dizzy from reading that!

    by just pillow talk

    Um, but I seem to have missed where he wrote about the things he did LIKE about Kong. It was, however, quite the thorough review of the movie and of Harry's/Vern's/Mori's reviews of Kong. Now does he ever write this crap for other movies, or just for Peter Jackson movies? Was there similar ones for LOTR? Oh, and Doc, I hope that scar has healed! :-)

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 10:33 a.m. CST


    by Doctor_Sin

    Jackson gots ta get paid, yo!

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 12:24 p.m. CST

    or picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue

    by just pillow talk

    either or.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Love those folks in NZ...

    by BDT

    But, although we PJ's genuine word represented here, we only have a magazine article's rendition of Shaye's word. I would hardly like to give a magazine credit for being the bonafide representation of Shaye's words or reputation. That said, I hope everyone steps up to do the right thing eventually. I do remember that Bob Shaye was not only willing to take the risk supporting PJ in the LotR project, but by telling him he should do it in 3 movies rather than 2 (which is what miramax wanted to do). I do not understand why any company would withold books from an audit. It is terrible business sense. My personal tendency is to side with Peter cause he shows so much integrity as a human being and a director and a leader....however, this mire seems so convoluted, that unless I was one of the parties involved, I would be hesitant to judge anyone because it would be hard to know and understand all the facts. Nonetheless, my great respect for Peter Jackson and Weta/Wingnut leads me to sympathise with the folks in New Zealand.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 1:40 p.m. CST

    NL owes me money for TMNTII: Secret of the Ooze

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    NL open your f*cking books! Who do you think you are, Don King?

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 1:50 p.m. CST


    by vealchop

    you heard it here first!

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Anchorite. Why the doubt?

    by Ringwearer9

    Plenty of us Tolkien fans out there. Sometimes we watch movie too.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 3:02 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu !

    by Ringwearer9

    He hunches in his basement like a treasure hoarding troll<br> He fumbles with the casement that contains his precious scroll<br> For in it are inscribed all words Ringbearer ever penned<br>A tear slips down and blurs the words : he gasps "My only friend!"

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Damn it.

    by Ringwearer9

    I repeated a rhyming word. Shoot.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 3:39 p.m. CST

    I've got it !

    by Ringwearer9

    Replace the third line with<br> "Inscribed with are all the turds Ringbearer ever penned"<br> Perfect.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 3:39 p.m. CST

    I've got it !

    by Ringwearer9

    Replace the third line with<br> "Inscribed within are all the turds Ringbearer ever penned"<br> Perfect.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 4:55 p.m. CST

    re: suing a studio

    by epitone

    EVERYONE does it all the time. Steven Bochco sued 20th Century Fox over NYPD Blue syndication royalties. He won. Not only did he continue to do business with other studios after that, but he even did the show "Over There" WITH FOX STUDIOS AND THE FX NETWORK. Eventually all is forgiven if you have talent.

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 8:42 p.m. CST


    by S-Mart shopper

    that is all

  • Jan. 12, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST


    by J-Dizzle

    Who gets the final word now?

  • Jan. 13, 2007, 12:11 a.m. CST

    The REAL Final Word

    by J-Dizzle

    J-Dizzle Pwns EVERYONE!!!!

  • Jan. 13, 2007, 3:05 a.m. CST

    "a silly fantasy movie...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...that failed to impress most people." ......And there, any relevant point you may have had died quietly along with your credibility.

  • Jan. 13, 2007, 5:26 a.m. CST

    you guys MUST get sick of this

    by BendersShinyAss

    this fence sitter thinks you're all crazy. lord of the rings was ok... it was just so fucking blown out. Kong too. still haven't seen the extended.. how is it? Donner's superman 2 is my all time favourite film!!

  • Jan. 13, 2007, 11:50 a.m. CST

    You're quite right Doc...

    by morGoth

    ...there's nothing that needs proving. Jackson's LoTR was, is and will always be, as Pauline says in Heavenly Creatures, "Fayntayastic!!" I will give one (there are many, many more) reason why I love (not merely like) PJ's LoTR: He succeded wildly in getting the story across to those who'd never read, much less heard of, the Lord of the Rings. No small task at all and as a long time Tolkien fan, I loved his adaptation as he covered the vast majority of the important themes quite well. Of course, to those who are merely haters, arguing why PJ's LoTR is great is pointless since there's no objectivity to be had.

  • Jan. 13, 2007, 3:24 p.m. CST

    The Final Word to override all other final words

    by J-Dizzle

    including the ones that will come in the future. This is it. The final word to end all other final words. J-Dizzle shall make the Hobbit. The movie will include Hulk Hogan as the bad guy, nipples on Smaug, flames on Gandalf's cloak, Bilbo Baggins has a beer and cheets on his wife (with Gollum), and Micheal Bay will direct. And THAT'S the Final Word.

  • Jan. 13, 2007, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Except for THE final word...

    by morGoth


  • Jan. 14, 2007, 1:48 a.m. CST

    Sorry MorGoth and BSB, my final word trumps all!

    by J-Dizzle

    So there!

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Final word: LoTR, still fantastic...

    by morGoth matter how ridiculous the haters come off. Man, talk about denial of the facts. The final word does it feel to be SOOOO wrong? Phew, what's that smell? Could it be, eau de Loser?

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 6:34 p.m. CST


    by S-Mart shopper

    that is all

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 8:09 p.m. CST


    by J-Dizzle


  • Jan. 14, 2007, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Final Word: Electric Boogaloo

    by J-Dizzle

    And don't tell me that was stolen from Firefly!

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST


    by S-Mart shopper

    gotta go 24's back on

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Bob Shaye Tongue-Lashes The Jack Sack

    by IWatchTooDamnManyMovies

    Hey, you gotta have a hobby...

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 9:57 p.m. CST

    When it comes to LOTR...

    by IWatchTooDamnManyMovies

    ...I agree with Randel in Clerks 2: it's 9 hours of people walking. Go watch 24, fiance...

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 10:04 p.m. CST

    so this is where the action is

    by Deus Vult

    and to think I've been trying to keep the hannibal talkback moving forward to crest over 500 posts. such an idiot! <p>so are we still talking about PJ or what? has anyone used "for shame!" or "vagina in a cup" in this talkback yet? they're only the hottest new AICN catchphrases you know!

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 10:12 p.m. CST

    yeah fuck peter! he looked better fat!

    by Deus Vult

    or something.<p>that (previously) fat bastard looked like a hobbit, or a dwarf himself. I miss his face-eating glasses, long scraggly hair and 61" waist. oh pete, why did you compromise your girth?<p>you see boys, shaye compromised his integrity, and pete his rotund,er,ness if you will.

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 10:17 p.m. CST

    hey have you ever taken any flack for the user id?

    by Deus Vult

    personally, I love it. any truth to the concept I wonder? maybe I shouldn't say that. I live in west houston and its less than two hours here from Austin. as such, harry may send his henchmen Herc and Merrick to get me if I'm not careful.

  • Jan. 14, 2007, 10:46 p.m. CST

    I don't wanna break this to you but

    by Deus Vult

    I think Lebron or sledge hammer or someone else already tried this one during the big 24 hour taint rant everyone went on. however, I may be thinking of star wars titles-yes actually, that's what it was. a new taint, return of the taint, revenge of the taint, you get the idea.<p>okay bed time for Deus.

  • Jan. 15, 2007, 12:35 a.m. CST


    by J-Dizzle


  • Jan. 15, 2007, 6:16 a.m. CST

    harrys inflatable fiance = stooopider?

    by just pillow talk

    Or not harsh enough to Harry? Was stooopider anit-Jackson too, or just way too pro-Bay?

  • Jan. 15, 2007, 9:39 a.m. CST

    "my initial internal response was appreciation"

    by CrichtonAstronut

    for what a tactically saavy move PJ was making. But when I saw folks...calling for New Line's blood,I piped up about it on the talkbacks and got quite a few folks irritated with me." My concern here is that Peter Jackson is getting a bad reputation, not for things he has said or done, but for what others have said and done (in there minds) on his behalf. It seems to me that if he is writing letters saying how much respect and admiration he has for the people at New Line, then he is doing his best to cool the tempers of fans not calling for blood. In my case, my initial reaction to hearing about the suite was based more on horror stories about the way studios have treated creative taklent general than with my admiration for the LoTR trilogy. While the of letter, on reflection, made me less inclined to blame New Line. Then, of course, Robert Shayne chimed in. Now, I feel sorry for New Line, because their CEO seems to have serious personal issues that could be the ruin of the studioin the long if not in this case. And his brash and rigid behavior is libel to alienate him and New Line from other talented people in Hollywood than Peter Jackson, or those who know him.

  • Jan. 15, 2007, 11:05 a.m. CST

    That user ID is mean, but kind of funny.

    by FluffyUnbound

    I'll admit to chuckling when I read it. But my standards are low - I've actually started to laugh at "...X gotta eat!"

  • Jan. 15, 2007, 11:46 a.m. CST

    harrys inflatable fiance

    by just pillow talk

    no, stooopider was actually someone's talkback name. He ended up getting banned, so I thought perhaps he took up your handle, but my bad.<p>And since you dispise Bay, I feel bad for mistaking you for another talkbacker. And I believe he did just finish sucking the trans' cock after doing the intro for the Japanese trailer.

  • Jan. 15, 2007, 1:01 p.m. CST

    That's right HIF, I do want the final word

    by J-Dizzle

    I shall have it!

  • Jan. 16, 2007, 6:52 a.m. CST

    The Final Word: Part 74

    by just pillow talk

    Little children and farm animals run away in fear from Steven Seagal. Especially sheep.