Cool News
A look at 8MM...
I've been dying to see reviews for this movie... still waiting for more, cause well it's so close to the movie now, and we've heard so little... well I just want to hear more. So write away if ya can.... Here ya go...
I haven't read a review for 8MM yet and I saw it so I thought maybe you
could
use it.
The premise is known, so I'll just give a brief overview. Nicholas Cage is
Tom Welles, a private investigator with a wife and an infant daughter. He
lives in a nice house and is good at his job (he even went to Penn on a full
academic scholarship). The movie starts slowly and then builds
tremendously.
We see Welles at work. Then we see him raking his lawn and holding his
daughter. He's a good man and a family man. Then things take off. He is
asked to find out if a snuff film is real or not. A girl appears to be
murdered on it, and a woman wants to know if it's real. Cage slowly pieces
things together, first on his own, and then with a porn store clerk named
Max
California (Joaquin Phoenix).
Joel Schumacher has, in my opinion, redeemed himself for Batman and Robin.
This is potent stuff. Not as jolting as Seven, but close. Almost as good,
too. The ending is just as horrifying, but in a different way. The
camerawork by Robert Elswit is excellent. Cage is terrific and Phoenix is
really good.
The less you know going in the better. I had prepared myself for some
really
graphic stuff, and I was right. The film itself is short and not as bad as
I
had anticipated, but the rest of the film made up for that. This is not
your
typical Hollywood fare. There is no easy resolution and no fairy-tale
ending.
It is riveting.
hanna
-
+ Expand All
-
Sounds like a Millennium plot from season 1 to me - especially by including the wife and daughter. I enjoyed Seven, so I'm looking forward to this... but I hope it's not just graphic for the sake ot it (as 7 was at times). Should make a good thrill-fest... and nice to hear Schumacher may have redeemed himself, too.
-
A friend of mine has seen it. He hated it. So there!
-
A friend of mine who works as a translator for film subtitles here in Iceland saw 8mm a few days ago and said that it was as bad as seven is good. Although he said that there where some good bits in it. He said that many of the things in it where so excaturated that they where laughable, like the bad guys and such. I dont agree with him on many ocations so I hope this is the case cause I have great hopes for this film. But you never know, maybe Kevin Walker Smith ( is
-
1) I don't want Schumacher to have any more of my time and money, and 2) I think that the whole purpose and premise of the movie is vile. I thought Seven was one of the most disgusting movies ever made. What was the purpose of it? Did it give me any insight into the human condition, or make me laugh or entertain me? No, I had to turn my head from the screen every few seconds to keep from losing my lunch. And I'm not talking about violence here, I'm talking about depravation. A pointless gore-fest with no redeeming value. I'm sure many of you disagree with me -- probably the same that find the whole Faces Of Death series entertaining.
-
ill probably see this film although im really doubting Shitmaker can direct anything worthwhile. the idea of snuff films is kind of ridiculous, the FBI says theyve never seen evidence that one actually exists, and the porn king himself, larry flint says he doesnt believe in them either. seems someone other than hollywood screenwriters would know about these films if they were out there.
-
I thoroughly enjoyed and revere Seven as one of the better existential crime films in the past decade (next to heat). Needless to say I am worried about 8mm. I can honestly say I've never been quite impressed with anything that Joel Schumacher(sp?) has made. Probably just my preference. I am making it a point of seeing this film but I'll sneak it in as a Sunday matinee so I won't feel like garbage if I happened to waste 2+ hours but not 8+ dollars.
As for whether Seven was redeemable entertainment. . . Most crime films are too neat. They don't show what a victim may look like at a post mortem crime scene. Maybe they shouldn't or maybe the veiwers should have know that they would be party to seeing it in Seven. I do believe in Eisenstein's principles of visual inference. You don't nessecarily need to see the direct result to be affected. Because your mind has filled in the "visual blanks" the only time in Seven where this was used was the scene with the hooker and it was used quite effectively.
Anyway. . . Seven was a very redeemable film in my opinion. It was extremely affecting and was an incredibly moving piece on the existential nature of love and purpose. It wasn't just a horror, slasher, serial killer crime flick. However, I do understand how someone could be put off by it.
Hell they're making American Psycho into a film and I have no clue how they're going to pull it off. It's the only piece I've ever been around that has made me physically ill (aside from the flu). Although I liked it (maybe intrigued by it would be a better word.) -
Feb 23, 1999 12:48:48 PM CST
I'm glad to see that everyone is in agreement so far on this sub
by l'auteur
He "redeemed" himself for Batman and Robin? When did he redeem himself for Batman Forever?? Joel cant-spell-his-last-name SUCKS! hes one of the biggest hack directors in Hollywood--no vision, no signature, just entertainment value. That explains why he sucked out all of the intensity of Batman and turned it into a... theres no word for how bad those two movies were. That also explains why he took on the sensational content of 8MM. He sucks at directing so much that the only way he can make a film entertaining is to overflow it with color (like in Batman which destroyed the dark beauty of the first two) or to take on a tabloid-esque story like snuff films. I wish he would die.
-
Shoemaker already directed a snuff film- he killed Batman!
No money from me... too bad since I like most of Nicholas Cage's work. -
Isn't 8MM just a rehash of Hardcore staring George C. Scott?
Are there any original ideas left in LaLa Land? -
hey all,
Don't know about this movie, but snuff films DO exist, it's just a whole underground world that most of us don't know anything about. Check out the website "The Myth of Snuff Films" or Yaron Svoray's book "God's of Death" if you want more info. Larry Flint---sheesh--hope he's not your guide to what exists or doesn't exist in this sometimes sick world of ours
Peace,
Cipher -
Snuff films sound like they are the best. I wish I could get my hands on some of them. 8MM is gonna be trash that probably portrays snuff films in a bad light. And that's too bad because Joel Schumacher is the best director in america. That movie Batman and Robin is wonderful. Let me give a shout out to my homies: Rodney, Johnny Mexi-melt, Texas Sergio, and Chocolate Ice. P.S. E-mail if you want copies of Gene Siskel's last moments of life on tape (I was there).
-
God knows that I'm not one of those knee-jerk reactionaries who believes that most of the modern world's ills can be traced to Hollywood's nefarious influence, but are snuff films one of those make-believe subjects that major motion pictures need to give screentime too? I agree with the earlier post that these things only exist in the imagination of screenwriters...right now. But the more the idea is perpetuated, the more lunatics who learn of the idea, and the greater the chance that one of them might decide to have life imitate art. I'm not calling for censorship of any sort, just a call to my fellow moviegoers that maybe there's a more socially positive way that we could spend our $7.75.
-
Actually, snuff films do exist and can usually be seen nightly on the FOX network. Also, there is no redemption for Batman & Robin.
-
your statement that Batman and Robin was a snuff film of the quality of Batman was just about the best movie-related quip ive ever heard. i wish i could tell that to joel's face and see what kind of expression i got out of his old wrinkled no-talent sorry self. as i said, i wish he would die. NO ONE PAY FOR 8MM!!! LETS MAKE IT BOMB SO WE CAN SEE JOEL'S CAREER DIE LIKE THE BATMAN SERIES! HA! EAT IT, JOEL, YOU FUCKING HACK!
-
What, you never made a mistake?
#1) I am the biggest fan of BATMAN and am very dismayed to see the franchise crumble. Maybe it was for the better. Every movie cannot be the masterpiece that BATMAN was.
#2)Who in their right mind can say that THE LOST BOYS, FLATLINERS, A TIME TO KILL, FALLING DOWN all sucked??? These are some of the greatest and most influencial movies off all time. St. Elmo's Fire nearly defined the 80's.
#3) Akiva Goldsmith, Warner Bros., McDonalds and Toy Companies killed Batman.
#4) Its not like George Lucas never flopped. Or Tim Burton. or Renny Harlin, or John McTiernan or Barry Levinson. Jim Cameron's THE ABYSS was a financial disaster (although an awesome movie).
#5) 8MM is perfect for Shumacher. He knows how to direct, light, and visually dazzle a film. And now that he's once again paired with a decent writer, I'm sure I'll love this as his other non-bat films.
#6) Thank You. -
I think everyone here that bags on schumacher is just wrong. Sure..i hated him after those travesties that run by the name of batman...but hell.....the man has made a few good films...and i am looking forward to this movie...cage is awsome....and i read the screenplay to 8mm. and andrew kevin walker is just a killer writer. I for one am gonna be there to see this film. I think shumacher is talented.....besides the crap fest batman 3 and 4....hell....the don't count to me as part of the series....but..everything schumacher makes isn't candy colored.....this film looks dark as hell.
-
Schumacher is a competent director, but he's never made anything quintessentially important (how many filmmakers have). However, I have to agree with the last few posts that have come to his defence. He is capable of the thing that hollywood loves: Make an entertaining film that brings in money. Many of you have love his past efforts and batman was a jinxed series since Burton was kicked off the project. It wasn't necessarily Schumacher's fault. The films he makes though usually fall in that strict entertaining popcorn fare that I usually don't care about. But I can never say that they are any more abhorrent than the majority of film out there. Occassionally, one or two of his film do entertain me so I'm not ruling this out. I'm just worried that it may not live up to what I want out of it. But then again what ever lives up to expectations?
-
Okay, look this may sound a little, or a lot ignorant, but I don't care. I know 8mm is supposed to have a film in it where a girl is murdered, i guess in some horrible way. But I've never heard the term "snuff", what the heck does that mean?
-
Okay, look this may sound a little, or a lot ignorant, but I don't care. I know 8mm is supposed to have a film in it where a girl is murdered, i guess in some horrible way. But I've never heard the term "snuff", what the heck does that mean?
-
Okay, look this may sound a little, or a lot ignorant, but I don't care. I know 8mm is supposed to have a film in it where a girl is murdered, i guess in some horrible way. But I've never heard the term "snuff", what the heck does that mean?
-
snuff [3] (adjective)
First appeared 1975
: characterized by the sensationalistic depiction of violence; especially : featuring a real rather than a staged murder -
snuff [3] (adjective)
First appeared 1975
: characterized by the sensationalistic depiction of violence; especially : featuring a real rather than a staged murder -
When I first heard the title and director of this film I thought, perhaps, Mr. Schumacher was going to shoot on a film stock appropriate for his talent.
Now I know why it is not titled "Super-8"... -
Joel's movies have been "some of the greatest and most influential of all time"?!?!?!? are you for real?! name one, i dare you, movie that has been obviously influenced by, say, A TIME TO KILL. and as for the other directors you mentioned, they deserved to flop too. everyone flops every now and then when you, like Harlin or Shumaker, are a hack action director. and Lucas' only flop (as a director) was THX1138. and as for the "havent you ever made a mistake?" comment... he's made TWO with the last two Batmans, and they were HIS fault. He tried to put as much color into Burton's dark vision as Ted Turner put into Casablanca. Batman and Robin is nothing less than the single worst movie i have ever ever seen. if it only slightly failed, i might be able to blame it on others, but since it is the all-time worst, the director must be blamed, hanged, and burned. and nicloas cage is a sell-out. except for CITY OF ANGELS (which was just another remake anyway, what else is new?) all he's done since his academy award is really stupid action movies. 8MM looks like a party of sell-outs trying to be "edgy" by doing something sensational like snuff. DON'T PAY FOR 8MM! LET'S DESTROY JOEL'S CAREER, THAT HACK FUCKER!
-
8mm? Why would someone use a primitive outdated, (ok, perhaps expressive) medium like 8mm photography to create something so tasteless as a so called "snuff" film? Don't you think video would be used instead? When was the last time anyone actually saw a porn film that was actually shot on film? Hasn't anyone challenged the credibility of this self indulgent, gratuitous crap that Shulmaker is calling art? Things are looking more and more bleak for this society. Don't quite see the point of this film. Didn't quite see the point of seven either. I do indeed have better things to do with my time than watch pain and anguish under the guise of entertainment.
-
Why would Cage do that?
-
I saw the film at the Berlin Filmfestival and it`s crap. The audience obviousely disliked it. The ending with all its blood and Cage`s character practising self -justice in killing all those involved in the Production of the snuff- film is just ridicoules, of cause one gets fed up with the perversion of these guys, but the way Cage tracks
-
If none of you believe that snuff films exist (and wouldn't it be nice if they didn't) then what is The Crow? The star of that film died tragically and yet it still made it's way to the local multiplexes. And as far as screenwriters creating things that don't exist to place in their scripts, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that their job? There are no such things as Klingons, Rick's Place, Ewoks, Ordell Robbie, or Indiana Jones. The job of the screenwriter is to create a false reality that we can buy into at least for two hours. If Mr. Walker has done this then his paycheck has been well earned.
And as much as I may dislike what happened to the Batman franchise, those are not the only films that Joel Schumacher has ever made. There is also Falling Down, a very powerful and intelligent film. Schumacher's only mistake was talking with Akiva Goldsman and thinking that he had goo ideas. -
haha no i dont use larry flint as my guide to reality but i do find the FBI saying theyve never been able to document one somewhat persuasive. i saw lanes longlong post and ill try now to pick out something from it(can you try to make a point in less than 30,00 words, lane??) there seems to be some debate as to what a snuff film is, im referring to it as a filmed murder that is sold for profit. yeah, im sure serial killers somewhere have recorded their killings but they arent selling it in back alleys to rich guys in overcoats. thats what the FBI says doesnt exist. its possible they do but if they havent found one in 30 years id say its not probable. now as for Svoray and his book: he claims the first time he saw a snuff film was with 25 nazis as they all sat around masturbating to it. i dont know any nazis but i was under the impression that they arent fond of jewish people and seem a wee bit homophobic too. yet they invite an israeli author to join them in their illegal movie night and circle jerk?? did they ask him to bring popcorn and kleenex too? oh and regarding a whole underworld we know nothing about, we all know kiddyporn exist without being involved in it. why? because theyve caught thousands of people dealing in it. thousands of those perverts screw up but those that make snuff films cant be found? amazing. and if your going to say that the feds are just covering it up, please explain to me why. if they have evidence of a murder why would they discredit it?
-
I HAVE HIGH HOPES FOR 8MM, IT SEEMS LIKE A KICKASS MOVIE TO ME, ALTHOUGH I'LL HAVE TO WAIT QUITE A WHILE TO SEE IT 'CAUSE I LIVE IN VENEZUELA. ANYWAY, THERE IS A FILM BASED ON THE WHOLE SNUFF THING, IT IS A THRILLER THAT SIMPLY KICKS ASS, IT'S CALLED THESIS, MOST OF YOU OR ALL OF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT BECAUSE IT IS FROM SPAIN, BUT YOU COULD MAYBE GET IT AT BLOCKBUSTER OR I DON'T KNOW WHERE. ANYWAY IT'S ABOUT A GIRL WHO IS DOING A THESIS ABOUT VIOLENCE IN THE MEDIA AND SHE AND A FRIEND FIND A SNUFF VIDEO IN THE SCHOOL LIBRARY AND HE RECOGNIZES THE GIRL IN THE VIDEO AND WELL IT IS QUITE COMPLICATED BUT IT RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DON'T THINK IT DOESN'T BECAUSE IT IS FOREIGN BECAUSE IT DOES. AND THOSE WHO WORRY ABOUT THE GORE FEST, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE THE VIDEO OR ANYTHING GROSS MUCH. THE FILM IS CALLED "TESIS". I'M REALLY SORRY FOR WRITING IN CAPITOL LETTERS, BUT I REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO SEE THIS FILM, YOU'LL LOVE IT. BYE -
Feb 23, 1999 6:50:35 PM CST
Schumacher and Batman and what the hell does it have to do with
by taxman
Basically, I agree pretty much with everything LaneMyers said about Schumacher's career. He's made some terrific films and is a classy director. Dickheads like L'Auteur seem to have no idea about what a director actually does or don't care. Like LaneMyers I also think that the first Batman was mediocre. It was extremely tedious to say the least. The visuals weren't even that great. Certainly not the best that I've seen come from Roger Pratt. Simply making everything dark doesn't make a masterpiece. The visuals in Dark City for instance were much better. Schumacher didn't really change much to the franchise apart from acknowledge that the whole concept of Batman is ridiculous in the first place. I'm sure I'll get attacked for that comment at this site, but it's the way most people in the real world think. So Schumacher played it for laughs and messed with your precious little super hero. Big deal. IMHO it's impossible to make a good Batman movie, so why not celebrate it's badness (it's called camp). Despite the general suckiness of the concept for Batman and Robin, it's not a terribly directed film. There are quite a few nice shots in it if you would actually pay attention to what's happening. Schumacher is a good director, and given a good idea to work with he'll deliver.
-
Im not trying to antagonize you, but if The Lost Boys was the most fun youve had in a theater since 87, youve missed alot of good movies. The most fun I had in a theater, not counting doing the wave and humming John Williams with a thousand other loonies at the SW: SE trilogy, was when i went to see a movie on opening weekend (before word of mouth set in and created expectations) that was known only to me as John Travolta's comeback. I sat in that theater completely blown the fuck away by all the things capable in cinema that i never knew of. i was only 14 at the time, so dont bash me for being ignorant, i simply didnt know then. But Pulp Fiction was the most fun i ever had a theater because it was insanely entertaining and i had zero fucking idea what was going to happen next and it was the film that opened my eyes to cinema. And one more thing LaneMyers, please reconsider the usage of the phrase "of all time" when discussing the influence of Joel's films. do you realize how much competetion "of all time" pits against the hack known as Shoemaker. With all the artists, visionaries, and innovaters in the last century, he is nothing but a speck on the surface of cinema's history. i wouldnt even call him one of the most infleuncial directors of the past two decades. and as for the quality of Falling Down, i would attribute that particular film's success to the story and Michael Douglas. Shoemaker, like John Madden with the outstanding Shakespeare in Love, was just in the right place at the right time (i.e. anyone couldve made a great film out of that script with that cast).
-
Well, here's my two cents: He directed one of my favorite films of all time - FALLING DOWN. His directing style worked well because 1) it had a strong script 2) it had a couple of great lead actors and 3) all the characters were very extreme. Joel works best with extremities. This is because they're MUCH easier to deal with than subtleties (sp??). Alas, Batman is a very three dimensional character that Joel's Batman films (and, IMHO, the first two) didn't come CLOSE to the actual feel of even the lamest Batman comic. In short, Joel is not the greatest of directors. And even though after seeing BATGUANNO AND ROBIN, I wanted to go to Joel's house and shoot my own snuff film, starring Joel, his crappy directing skills are not the reason I'll be skipping the movie 8MM. (Woah, Peteski, king of the runons!) I'll be skipping it based solely on the trailer. The trailer gives me no reason to see the film. What's the premise? Well, Nick must find out if this film is really a snuff film or not. Well, considering this is all a movie in the first place, there's no real tension since I already know it's not real. It may be real in the context of the story, but it's all fake in the end, so why would I be horrified? Why would I be horrified (and therefore entertained) to know that some fictional character would actually kill someone on screen for the kicks? I mean, big deal! REAL people have done MUCH worse, so why would I go see a movie who's only purpose is to tell me how some fictional guy was a sicko? I can just watch the news and hear about people like that! (Hell, just last night a guy, JUST down the street from me tried to rape a neighbor!!) Who needs to blow 8 bucks to see something only slightly worse than real life? Okay, well, maybe it's in the suspense - the way the film shows Nick discover the truth. Well, we know the truth already, right? It's a "real" snuff film, or else the movie would get pretty boring, right? So where's the suspense? This film stucturally is COMPLETELY uninteresting and I encourage everyone to skip it. Oh and don't get me started on the way the trailer was cut! DAMN! I had a headache after seeing it! Sheesh! Anyway, gotta go. -Peteski@spinninghead.com
PS isn't it odd how easy it is to come up with reasons NOT to see films based on what we see in the trailers? You'd think ad people would need to give us reasons TO see a movie instead of vice-versa. (okay, now I GOTTA go!) -
wanna back up your statment about me with anything more than "dickhead"? or would require something called evidense? or something which is even harder for you to come by... arguement skills? Joel is NOT a good director and I'll tell you why... all he can do is come up with flashy visuals and thats about the most overdone thing of the last two decades. It seems like no working Hollywood director has the highly structured technique of, say, Alfred Hitchcock or the abilty to make statements through the use of framing and juxtiposition of images etc etc like, say, Stanley Kubrick. But thats only because you Joel-defending idiots, who make up about 90% of today's movie-going audience dont have the brainpower to understand what guys like Hitchcock and Kubrick did. All you understand are the flashy, very unsubtle, over-the-top visuals of hacks like Shoemaker, Rodgrigez (i like the guys movies but they have zero depth), Harlin, and so on. I admit, Joel's films might catch your eye, but they dont tickle the brain. And if you only watch movies for the flashy visuals and not the messages behind them, then you and I dont see eye to eye (bad pun, so sue me).
-
You are absolutetly right. I have no physical evidence whatsoever that you do indeed have a penis for a head. As far as evidence of Schumacher's talents go, I think LaneMyers went through some of his better films quite well. I'm not saying that Schumacher is a great director, I'm certainly not putting him anywhere near the class of Hitchcock or Kubrick (give me a break!). But he does know how to turn out a quality film. He's not at the cutting edge of creativity, he's a Hollywood studio man through and through. But he's one of the better ones. As far as depth goes, both 'Falling Down' and 'A Time to Kill' had plenty of depth just to name two. Is he the main reason for the depth in these films? Maybe not, it's the writer(s). But he's hardly the only director who doesn't write his own scripts (Scorsese, Speilberg). Somewhere in your ramble you said: "It seems like no working Hollywood director has the highly structured technique of, say, Alfred Hitchcock or the abilty to make statements through the use of framing and juxtiposition of images etc etc like, say, Stanley Kubrick." Well that may be true, that's what make's them Hitchcock and Kubrick but I fail to see how this comment relates directly to Schumacher as it seems to be an attempted insult directed at ALL working directors. L'Auteur, how do you think that Schumacher has reached his lofty position in the film industry? It's not because he's a hack, it's because his body of work and talent have earn't him quite a lot of respect throughout the film industry. You let slip that you are only 18-19. I'm sorry, but what makes you think that you know something more than the the established film industry? huh? This is dangerous but I'm guessing that the first film you saw of Schumacher's was in fact Batman and Robin. In a few years when you have learnt more about filmmaking, you may regret the comments you are making about Schumacher now. p.s. Learn to spell people's names correctly, you may think your being clever, but you just appear foolish. Oh, and did you get a copy of 'Sight and Sound' for christmas? It's all very well to throw out words like 'juxtiposition' (and I believe it's spelt juxtaposition) to make yourself sound clever, but do you actually know how it applies to filmmakng? If you know so much, why don't you explain to us exactly what it is that's so great about Kubricks's "juxtiposition of images"?
-
I just got back from a free sneak preview of 8mm. Who knew that this movie could be made by the same guy who did Batman & Robin? It reveals a sexual underbelly of our society that maybe should have been left unseen. It borrows a lot from Seven in the way that it reveals just enough for you to remake the whole scenario in your mind. Like Seven you almost come out of the theater feeling dirty. The way they connect this sick perverted type of stuff to our own backyards makes you wary about your own neighbors. This film is twisted and disturbing, and though it may not have the raw power of Seven, it definitely has its moments. If only Joel could have injected just a little of this darkness into the Batman franchise, the world would be a much happier place.
-
...by giving me all his money and cleaning my toilets for the rest of his life!!!
What a f*&$in' joke...this review is a P-L-A-N-T!!!
Harry, are you gonna realize how tired you were when you put this up and then take it down, like those nifty Episode 1 pics from a few days ago? -
A Time to Kill had depth? Could have fooled me. All I got out of it was a load of tired, old platitudes about race relations (gosh, thanks Mr. Grisham! I had no idea that racism is bad!) and an utterly laughable performance from the supremely untalented Matthew McConaughey.
-
To all those folks still living in pearly white small towns in bum fuck idaho, Falling Down was an extremely powerful film for those of us who lived in LA while it turned to shit over the last 25 years. Joel has got a lot of balls to make a film like that given the politically correct crap being shoved down our throats by Hollywood nowadays. Hail Joel!
-
I'm gonna keep this nice and short, unlike the rest of you dorks. If you haven't seen the movie yet, shut the hell up. Speaking of which, I'll be directing a snuff film in South America, and I want you all to try out for it. I'll be waiting.
-
You guys are all fucking spelling aces. Go to bed, get some sleep, and wake up realizing how dumb this whole discussion is. I cannot stand reading this drivel. Who cares. See the movie or don't. Joel has made some great movies. No he does not match up with Kubrick, but sit down and watch a set of Hitchcock movies and tell me that you are not bored to pieces after two. He is a good director but he was too repetitive in his method. Sure it was his trademark to increase the suspense and tension of a film and you can always tell the style of a Hitchcock film. But, wouldn't the mark of a great director be better seen by the diversity and flexibility of their work? Maybe it is just me, but that is how I feel. As far as the script of the 8mm movie goes, I have not read it , but I have heard it is both good and bad.
-
LaneMyers: why must you always use the youre-so-pretentious arguement? if someone really is pretentious, then shoot down his ideas and dont waste time pointing out the sad fact that most people dont know what juckstopazishun (ok, so i cant spell it) means. You want an example of Kubrickian juxtopostion (this is also for Taxman, who also asked). Ok the, I'll start with the most famous edit of all time. Before you ask, yes I read this in book somewhere, so dont call me a plagarist or anything because how am i supposed to help the fact that people were writing about this before i was even born? anyway, in 2001, when the revolving bone turns into a spaceship, what Kubrick is saying is that in the eons of time that elapsed in between, not much important happened, hence he skiped over it. That's so ballsy! To have the gall to say that in millions of years of evolution, man hasn't really made any noteworthy progress, but is still throwing murderous tools in the air (the bone was the first muder weapon and the spaceship is the home of HAL 9000, who will become a murderer) only to have them fall back to earth... thats just really fucking cool. The film is all about evolution... from ape to man to superhuman, and what Kubrick says, in that JUXTAPOSTION of shots, is that the difference between ape and man is neglidgable (sp?). How cool is that? Only Kubrick, that sadistic motherfucker, would have the balls to say that all of mankind's existence was not worth mentioning and the only thing it led up to was the "trip" to Jupiter so one man, Dave, could become the starchild. Want an example that I didnt read in a book? OK. In A Clockwork Orange, in the scene where Alex is masterbating to Beethoven, Kubrick interlaces shots of violence of all kinds to emphasize one of the film's main themes: that violence is a form of sexual release. i would go on to explain the "highly structured technique" of Hitchcock but, geez, all you have to do is watch Notorious to see how the Master frames each shot with incredible precision. As for BATMAN, I loved the first two and I'm too lazy to go into why (because im not even close to being done yet) so Im just gonna say that even if you think the first two sucked, i still hate Joel because ONLY A HOLLYWOOD WHORE like him would agree to do a sequel of a sequel and then, after BATMAN FOREVER which really really sucked, he did a sequel of a sequel of a sequel! you think Hitch or Kubrick would do that? but forget the sequel business, im not too impressed with the rest of his work either. yes, taxman, i have seen others. in addition to both batman travesties, ive seen Lost Boys, Flatliners, Falling Down and perhaps some others as well. I loved Falling Down, but as i said, Joel was just in the right place at the right time, because as far as his directing style is concerned, he's nothing more than pretty cinematography (hmmmm, kinda reminds me of Michael Bay and Simon West, two other hack-action Hollywood whores). and as far as my knowledge, as a 20-year-old, of the film industry is concerned, i dont give a shit how the "industry" works. if Hollywood respects this man so much, then it only re-enforces my opinion that Hollywood is even further corrupted than the second most powerful city in the world: Washington DC. in other words, i have the opposite opinion of Hollywood producers: they hated Welles, i love the guy. they love Joel, i want him dead. if Joel is respected by anyone, its by the producers who have made a bundle off his eye-candy no-brain style (not that all of his scripts, written by others i add, have been no-brainers). my point is, you people seem to look at films as a whole and not as a collaboration. directing and writing are completely different, and just because Joel gets his dirty hands on a gold script and actor like in Falling Down, that doesnt mean his directing style had anything good about it. so as i said, only producers who are making money off idiots who like shit like "Batman: The Wizard of Oz Edition"(refering to the hideous color of the latter two Batmans) respect him. no one who understands the art of directing gives two shits for him. i mean, look at some of the other so-called "respected by the industry" directors: McTieran (sp?), Bay, Harlin, Scott (both of them)... they get the $100 million budgets because they have proven themselves to be competent eye-candy makers, but they have zero respectabilty as a film artist. and if giving a shit about art in film makes me pretentious, then so be it. stop telling me i am because i know i am, but anyone with half an ounce of film appreciation would look pretentious next to this crowd. and Taxman, in a few years, i think ill be proud of the wisdom i had as a young lad when i see middle-aged people paying money for crap like Batman and liking it. and as far as the penis-head joke that only you found witty, lets not reduce this to a Well Hung Ewok-like battle.
-
if you dont like discussion, why the fuck are you in the talkbacks?!
-
Lane, you stated that you think if Schumacher had read the Batman and Robin script more carefully before he had started he might have made a better film. I don't think so, take a look at the dialogue. I don't think it's possible to make a serious film out of that without looking REALLY stupid (most here might say he looked stupid anyway). Tongue was stuck firmly in cheek for most of the movie because there was simply no other option. I thought it was fun to watch a talented thesp like Uma Thurman trying to get her mouth around those wacked out lines contrasting with Arnie just plowing on through like a dump truck. The basic plot could have supplied a reasonable serious film, but drastic changes would be needed for the dialogue. Besides that, I think that was the script Schumacher wanted anyway and seriousness be damned. I think the arguement that Schumacher is a bad director because Batman and Robin stunk falls apart because regardless of whether you like the film or not, I feel it was pretty much the film he intended and wanted to make. He wanted a loud, gawdy, and obnoxious event movie. And that's just what he gave us. If he achieved what he wanted to, then it's not his directing that's bad. The only thing you can attack is his vision (or lack thereof). Look at it this way; WB naturally wanted to make more Batman movies because they were successful. Burton however had had enough, so they looked around for the best director they could find that was available to take the helm. That man was Schumacher. Schumacher though had no respect for Batman, he couldn't really care a less about his history (a sentiment I share). He was just excited about getting this huge budget to play with. He wasn't trying to make a serious and meaningfull film, he was just having fun. And I bet he did too. There are pockets on the internet (like this one) that just take Batman and Robin WAY to seriously. It's just another summer event movie that's been forgotten by 90% of the population (along with the likes of Twister, Independence day, Godzilla, Con Air etc.) No better, no worse. I realise I'm beginning to sound like Schumacher's bumb chum by constantly defending him, but to tell you the truth this is the most I've ever thought about him.
-
Well look at that, L'Auteur really does know his films. L'Auteur I find it very difficult to disagree with everything you are saying. Yes, Schumacher is just a glorified cinematographer, no one is trying to debate that. I don't see how you can claim to be a film fan and not appreciate the virutes of good cinematography. When I say he has respect in the industry, I don't mean only among money hungary producers. Who do you consider great? Ask Speilberg, Scorsese, Coppolla etc, if they think that Schumacher is talented. I gurrantee they'll say yes. You know L'Auteur, I actually feel sorry for you. Your're obviously won of those types who is obsessed with films but can't enjoy them. Someone who barely anything is good enough for. Someone who feels themselves to be so superior in intelect to everyone else that they know it all. Someone who despite their broad statements doesn't possess a scrap of talent themselves. Get a life already. I think we both agree, you most certainly are extremely pretentious. But oh well, suit yourself. p.s. please tell us your explanation of why Burton's Batman is such an important film. I need a good laugh. (Burton, now there's another glorified cinematograher with nothing to say, why don't you hate him?).
-
youre correct, i did miss the wole point of your earlier diatribe. THAT was the point of my line asking if you could actually make a point in less words than a novel. i dont read your posts to carefully because, and i cant think of a way to say this without you feeling insulted, i find you to be a longwinded hypocritical bore. one of your xfiles posts last week was a perfect example, you berated others for being critical of the show then spent the second half of your epic criticizing everything in the show! my post about the FBI wasnt aimed soley at you. i dont know who these people were you saw giving speaches about snuff films but from what i saw om a news program in detroit earlier this week and from what i read on the subject in past articles in our news paper and a recent article in premiere magazine, police agencies have no documented evidence of them. Dateline and other shows would be all over these films if they found out they exist? hell yes they would but you want me to believe yuor investigative skills are greater than all these shows which make their money uncovering the uncoverable?? 60 minutes doesnt know about them but you do? the american media hasnt picked up on it because its mostly done in foriegn countries you say? whats with all the reports i see on the russian mob, the yakuza, white slavery, international terrorist, and a dozen and a half other secrets buried in the corners of the world? quit chewing on retard sandwiches, man.
-
I'll have to straddle the line on the Joel Schumacher debate. I don't think that he's a hack, since I've enjoyed some of his works. I believe The Lost Boys ranks up there with American Werewolf In London in terms of balancing horror and comedy into well-crafted entertainment. He's made some good movies, like Falling Down, which did take risks for a mainstream product. He's made some that haven't held up too well, like Flatliners, although I'll always be wary of ghostly kids with hockey sticks who like to beat the pulp out of Kiefer Sutherland. Like many people, I wasn't impressed by the Batman films, but I know there are other factors involved including scripting and studio interference. As for 8mm, if it bears any resemblance to Seven, it will certainly be uncomfortable to watch in spots. But I'll give it a chance just the same.
-
The FBI does know about snuff films. I work for a newspaper -- I have since 1983 -- and I remember in the late '80s the federal government had a big press conference about arresting several men who comprised (there's a vocabulary word for you, Lane) the nation's largest makers and distributors of snuff films. Makers AND distributors. The fucking FBI INVESTIGATED the case. The story went out worldwide over all the major news services. Don't tell me that the FBI claims it has never found any snuff films. That's bullshit. Either they're lying, or you got your facts wrong. Maybe the story that the FBI hasn't found any snuff films is the real urban legend here. In fact, one of the reasons that the making and distribution of snuff films in this country remains so hush-hush is because the FBI and other government agencies are quick to move against anyone even rumored to be involved with snuff films. I know people who work as investigators for the government, in various agencies, and they tell me that snuff films are taken VERY seriously.
-
This is in reference to LaneMyers commit about BATMAN AND ROBIN being Akiva Goldsman's fault because he is a bad writer. Well I would submit to you that he wrote a movie that you have metioned, A TIME TO KILL. And he didn't just copy from the book becuase I read the book and there are a good number of differences. BATMAN AND ROBIN really wasn't anybody's fault. It's just one of those spectacular bombs where all pieces of the movie making process fail at once, acting, set design, costume, directing, writing. In fact it was so bad that it was actually entertaining. Sometimes it's just fun to watch a filmmaker make a complete fool out of himself. I actually find it a step up from BATMAN FOREVER because FOREVER was bad without being entertaining. I am personally releshing when the MST3K guys get a hold of BATMAN AND ROBIN. Anyway, I don't plan to see 8MM because the whole thing just seems to be in bad taste.
-
Taliesin,
I didn't read his book on his infiltration of Neo-Nazi groups in today's Germany, but I am pretty sure that Svoray did not proclaim his true ethnic identity to these individuals when he was pursuing the story. His book brought to light a lot of violence perpetrated by these groups in Germany, most of it against immigrants such as Turks and Kurds. A lot of people in Germany, like you with Snuff films, did not want to believe that Neo-Nazism existed and to this day deny its existence. In "God's of Death", Svoray also watches a snuff film in a nice, beautiful house in Fairfield County, Connecticut with wealthy white leaders of industry, while they too masturbated. If you still wanna play blind man, read the book, give it a critical read and see what you think. Unfortunately, in many areas of the world people can be bought and sold for less than you or I can make in a day. And there is a lot of sickness in this world. Both of these lead me to believe that these films do exist, but you have to be on the inside to see for yourself, and most of us simply aren't. As for the FBI cover-up, yeah I do believe it is true, because it would be in their best interests and those of all of us to keep it quiet. If this got out, maybe other psychos out there would find this an excellent medium to exhibit their depravity.
Peace,
Cipher -
I have to say, I find myself agreeing with LaneMyers on more than one occasion. Except the first Batman film. The first film kicked ass. None of the others did, but the first certainly ranks itself as a damn fine film. It's dark nature successfully made people forget about the campiness of the series, so well done. But the main reason that this film was good and the others were cack was, it had a decent script. The script for this film actually had a plot, and was thought out. The others were a case of, hey lets have Catwoman. What about the penguin as well. The only thought that went into the other films was, what Batman Characters can they use, not How can we use these charecters. Also, Joel Schumaker is a good director. Not the best Director ever, but still a good one. So he has made some crap, who hasn't. Stephen Speilberg is a Great Director, but he made Hook and Always. Something I would like to say about Batman And Robin though. At least the story, as crap as it was, made sense. Watch Batman Forever again, and tell me "What the hell is going on"? And where did that extra puzzle spring from?
-
i have no doubt snuff films are taken very seriously. evidence of that sort WOULD be taken seriously. i dont know what newspaper you work for or what big press release youre talking about. im just quoting what i saw and read myself. im repeating what special agent ken lanning of the FBIs national center for the analysis of violent crime said. until i read and watched this stuff i always assumed they existed too. like someone said earlier this is a sick world. hell, i live in detroit, i see freaks on the news every day. again i dont know what press release your discussing but im looking at an article right now and an FBI guy thats been investigating such stuff for 23 years says he cant find it.
-
yeah , i understand what youre saying but i just dont know how credible svoray is. he IS in the business of selling books. i heard an interview with him on the radio with some guy named madcow or mancow or something(first stop by all authors who wish to discuss weighty issues)he was asked why,if hes seen all this and is so horrified by it, doesnt he turn these people in (journalistic integrity aside) and he said he would if interpol or the fbi were interested but so far they havent been. WHAT?? i dont believe this conspiracy crap that they dont want the evidence of such crimes or your point that they cover it up so that copycat crimes dont happen. whenever they catch a maniac theres a huge press conference so they can say 'look we caught him, arent we good at keeping you safe' Svoray says he infilltrated these super secret, closeknit groups by pretending to be a middle man. a middleman with no contacts and no ability to produce a product? i just dont know. anyways, this has been a good discussion, im sure we'll see more on the topic as the movie comes out. if shadow dancer is right and i see the fbi on Nightline saying its all true, then thats the proof im looking for and ill wonder what the hell this agent lanning was talking about.
-
one final thought, comparing someone like me who questions snuff films to someone who denies the existence of nazis is like comparing someone who doesnt quite belive in bigfoot to someone who claims theres no such thing as gorillas.
-
RE:lane and l'auteur argument.
Sorry boys calm down but there isn't a snuff film industry and this is the real point.
Of course serial killers have videoed their killings but
there is no distribution of these films.(another point about serial killers is that they don't work together and certainly don't contact other serial killers so how would they distribute their 'home videos'anyway?)
Again and again films the f.b.i have found have been proved in court to be NOT real.(screaming mad George the SFX artist was even brought in on one case to prove one fake)
Examples that have been used by the media/f.b.i as snuff are normally the sfx heavy 'guinea pig' series of films,these nasty little films made in Japan in the 80's have fooled many people,having no credits and
normally a 3rd or 4th generation copy it looks very very real.
Repeatedly the F.B.I and european agencies have been caught out by these films and then perpetuated the myth to avoid embarresment.
Various UK film books(Killing for culture.is the best example) and many UK magazines have covered
in depth the snuff myth.
And some even investigated the darker areas of the porn market in search of snuff but with no results.
Of course there is lots of violent porn,which how ever real looking due to strict US and european porn laws is fake using consenting actors or no one will disribute it.
Remember the porn industry over the last 20 years has become a very big industry,theres so many legal high profit markets that no one would touch snuff even if they were offered it.
Funny thing is you guys in the US
do have docusnuff available in your local stores.films like faces of death vol 1-6,death scenes etc.
I find it ironic that you'll all be horrified by seven,8mm but you
come from the country that brought the world Cops,Americas most violent crimes etc as acceptable TV entertainment.
So really these video and TV programs are the nearest you'll ever get to it unless you know any serial killers....
Bye
Shunty. -
I finally understand what Obi Wan meant when he said, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany, we must be cautious." I'm talking about the Talk Back here! Sheesh. Some of you people take yourselves waaaaay too seriously. Do you honestly think for one single second that Shumacher (or most any other director for that matter) is 100% responsible for what's in a film? C'mon, wake up. Have you ever heard what Tim Burton wanted BATMAN to be, before Jon Peters screwed with the script/ideas??? Have you ever heard of this concept? Money talks baby. And very few creatives get to decide their own fates alone, not when millions of dollars in invester money is creeping around in the form of producers, agents, studio hacks, etc. Blame Schumacher for the BATMAN mess if you want, but the series was doomed from the beginning. And true fans of THE BATMAN know this is true, as much as we may wish otherwise. Hollywood is a committee, looking to make a profit. Thank God above that several creatives HAVE found a niche in the zoo, Spielberg, Lucas, Kubrick, etc. Without them, and others like them, we would be surrounded by Brady Bunch movies and slasher fliks!
I work in advertising. I direct Television commercials. When you see the final commercial on TV do you see the original concept I had? Before the client changed it to add bursts!? Before the production house cheapened the effects? Before the cast flubbed the lines in 57 takes? Before 4 straight 17 hour days in 95 degree heat, shooting? No you don't. We try to stay as close as we can to the original vision, but even with the best intentions, sometimes it gets away from you. Is that my fault? Maybe. And maybe it's Joel's fault also. But then again, maybe it's everyones fault.
If you are soooo darn sure of yourselves, go and DO IT. Put you're reputation on the line. I dare you. -
Thought Id go ahead and voice my opinion.
After a while it becomes very irritating seeing unintelligent remarks. Outright I hate it when I see things saying "Give us your opinion." When in actuallity your opinion, im talking Joe Blow, means nothing. It serves no purpose. It does not affect anything about what your giving your opinion on.
Now now, some I see on this page are very good opinion's not to say everybody's isnt. But things like "My friend said it sucked. So there." Or something to that variation is totally unneeded. Absolute idiocy. Want to tell us why your friend said it sucked? What makes him the person to know what is good and what sucks? If he offers no details how do we know it sucks? Seeing is believing is what they say. Welp go see it, not based on what your friend said. Like I said well thought out opinions are great. Using some brain power you can acheieve this. Not comments like "IT SUCKS, CAUSE I SAID SO!" or "Joe CANT-SPELL-HIS-NAME is a moron."
Why bash somebody? You can bash somebody if you do what they do.
Want to say Joe sucks? Than you direct a film. Cause than you have the ability to judge because you know what its about. Thats rather ify in my last statement, but I think you can grasp the concept im heading towards. He makes a couple of films and you base all of his films on that? Styles changes, fads change, people change. Just cause you didnt like one film doesnt mean the next film is going to suck. But of course it is your choice. I cant force you to see it. But its good to have open mind towards things. Its like childish high school. "I heard blah blah blah about that guy/girl." Exactly, you *HEARD*, you do not know. Only way is to ask the person thats being talked about. I got off track here a little.
But with a little thought, you can come up with opinions that sound coherent, that state good points, and dont include vulgar remarks that totally bring you IQ level down a few if not several points. Lets grow up a little.
One thing I hate about opinon polls, or anything that involes getting the opinions of the "AVERAGE JOE" such as my local news show saying "Call in give us your thoughts." is that *IT ALWAYS SEEMS THE IDIOTS COME OUT OF THE WOOD WORK."
And last but not least, I Nicholas Cage is a terrific actor, and I look forward to seeing 8mm.
Good-day and night to all. -
"The most fun" I've had in the theaters were movies like "Scream", "Showgirls", and "Wild Things". The first two because of the audience, and the third because my friends and I were drunk and made stupid remarks at the movie. Fun is just fun. Nothing deeper than that. Nobody's going to say Showgirls was a masterpiece or genre defining or whatever. So what's the point? Once again, the lot of ya's are reading way too much into this being a Schumacher film. Do I care? If I find 8mm was worth my money then so be it. No director has ever been involved in injuring or killing my friends and loved ones, so wishing death on them is absolutely absurd!
Oh, for the record, I thought all four Batman movies sucked. Now back to those Schumacher arguments. -
Strangely enough, the most fun I ever had at a movie was at Jaws 4: The Revenge. Bad. So very bad.
-
First of all I would like to defend Joel Schumacher. Although I hate him for ruining Batman I still think that he showed potential in Falling Down (which I think is a very good film). 8 MM is going to rock. Cage is awesome and perfect for a dark role such as this - remember the wicked look in his eyes in Face|Off?!? The graphic nature of the film doesn't concern me. Snuff flicks are graphic and any movie dealing with this topic should have a certain level of gore to capture the distubing nature of snuff films. The spanish movie "Snuff" was very disappointing in my eyes as it would constantly show more and more only to stop before it got to violent. The first half of the movie was very exciting but the second half was too "mainstream".
For those of you who don't believe in snuff I only have one thing to say: it almost certainly does. Personally I've had the "pleasure" of seing *very graphic* pictures of a couple slicing up a dead man and I don't think they're fake. If you go to Death Net at www.deathnet.com you can see samples of this series which is also posted in its entirety on another website (which URL I can't remember). Furthermore, I've heard of a few persons who've seen snuff flicks (friends of friends of friends, that type of thing) in addition to what I've read in news papers and on the web. I can't understand why some ppl refuse to believe that snuff movies exists. I think that if you're sick enough to murder someone you're sick enough to videotape it. Just my opinion. BTW, the website "The Myth of Snuff" (or something like that) has been shut down. For the most part it was just text but it did have a link to some really nasty pictures. And to the dude who revealed the ending of 8 MM - thanks a lot *asshole*
-
I don't know if 8mm will suck or shine (I will be seeing it though) but man, oh man, this simple review has sparked some good Talk Back. That alone should tell you the film can't be ignored.
-
Taxman, where do you find the foundation for some of your half-ass arguements? lets discuss each in turn: 1) I certainly appreciate good cinematography. That's one of the reasons why I love Apocolypse Now (Hail, Vittorio Storroro, the greatest director of photography who ever lived) and Schindler's List and The Godfather. But modern day cinematography (i.e. the Michael Bay school of filmmaking) says that movies should look like advertisements for movie stars. And I was being sarcastic when I implied that Bayman and Robin was pretty, because I found the colors in that movie to be the ugliest I ever saw. 2) You "guarantee" that Spielberg, Coppola, Scorsese repsect Joel? WHY? On what grounds do you make a statement like that? Have you asked them? Have you any logic behind that or do you just like to make outlandish statements? 3) I do enjoy films very much. The other night, I saw one of the funniest movies in my life with a packed house and we were all howling with laughter. It was a 1949 Scottish flick called Tight Little Island, and I would love to disuss that film (or many other GOOD movies) but then again, you eye-candy freaks wouldn't have the attention span for a movie that didnt explode in your face. 4) I have not "a scap of talent"? Again, what the fuck are you basing this on? This is only a less crass insult in the vein of Well Hung Ewok or DeathonVacation, meaning you are only saying it to antagonize and you have no proof of its validity. 5) Burton is an Auteur because he has a running theme of alienation in his films. Joel has no running theme; he chases the big budgets and big paychecks because he is a whore. Burton's films all focus on an eccentric, misunderstood, isolated, disturbed soul (Bruce Wayne, Pee-Wee, Edward S.). And Burton, much like Kurbrick and much UNlike Joel, understands that a visual doesnt have to be pure eye-candy to be striking and powerful. So Taxman, if you wanna try and dispute me, get something called proof, because you tend to throw around insults (that all seem to be a result of the fact that you pissed that someone with real taste is tearing your precious Joel to shreads) with absolutely zero foundation un which to rest them.
-
Taxman, I re-read your post and i noticed, in the part where you got on my case for misspelling 'juxtaposition', that you yourself misspelled the word 'spelled'. You spelled it "spelt"! It's S-P-E-L-L-E-D you grammerless twit! The fact that you misspelled the word 'spelled' in an attack on my own misspellings was just about the funniest thing thats happened to me this week. Taxman, thanks for being my jester. And dont comb this post looking for my misspellings because if there are any, i dont care, and im not the one who started this whole spelling bee thing. I just thought that you should know, when youre making your unfounded arguements against people, that you might want to proof-read your attacks so you can make sure that you arent making a complete fool of yourself.
-
I must say, that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this debate. My only fear is that our main players will suffer a heart attack whilst typing. All I have to add is that I've figured out personally why I liked Batman better than the rest... I WAS 15 when I saw it. I'll bet I couldn't sit throught it now. But I really liked A Time to Kill. If you all only saw movies by directors who never made a movie you didn't like, you wouldn't go to movies, you'd sit here and type all day (oops, some of you do that). All great directors have made crappy movies too. Didn't anyone see Temple of Doom or Hook? I'm going to go see 8mm and I've already decided I'm going to like it.
-
Feb 24, 1999 2:02:15 PM CST
To bward and anyone who thinks FALLING DOWN is RISKY oh and a no
by peteski
First off, FALLING DOWN was NOT risky. Yes, choosing to make the film was, but once you get past that, what was so risky about it? Showing that gang guys are stupid? Showing that fast food places are staffed by morons? Showing that army fanatics that own surplus stores are psychos? Oh yeah- THAT'S RISKY ALL RIGHT! NOW, if the film painted EVERYBODY as annoying and in need of lead injections (via a gun), THAT would be risky. If those two gay guys in the surplus store were TOTAL flamers to an OBNOXIOUS (sp??) level forcing Douglas' character to kill them, then THAT would have been risky. If the black guy protesting the bank that called him "not economically viable" was actually a homless guy demmanding money from Douglas' character and having him be shot or something, THAT would have been risky. But instead, Douglas' character takes it out on everyone who is PC and safe to make fun of. Don't get me wrong - it's a total blast to watch - one of my favorites, in fact. But it's NOT risky. Now, on to BWARD's comments. FYI, a lot of us are trying to make movies in Hollywood, but it's not as easy to put your reputation on the line as you make it sound. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO PUT MY REPUTATION ON THE LINE!! PLEASE!! LET ME! I'm not saying I'd prove you wrong, but I'd LOVE TO TRY!!! I could use the work! I do agree - films are made by comittee, but battles can be fought and both won and lost, but something tells me that Joel isn't a fighter. He's a working director in Hollywood. I'm glad he's finding work (unlike ME) but I just wish he'd push a little harder in the creative process. It can be done. Oh and L'Auteur - I agree with some of your points but you shmuck - "spelt" is a completely legal spelling of "spelled" in GREAT BRITAIN! Jeez some of you posters just have no tolerance for your fellow man. You bunch of dickweeds! (it's a JOKE)
-
In quick response to your points L'Auteur. 1) Schuindler's List *is* modern day cinematograhpy it was filmed in the modern day (quite logical really). Apocolypse Now and The Godfather are harldy ancient either. You said: "because I found the colors in that movie to be the ugliest I ever saw": Batman and Robin used virtually every color. Either you find all colors ugly or you just haven't expressed well what you really feel is wrong with Batman and Robin's cinematography correctly. (I'm not saying you didn't find B&R ugly, I'm sure you did, but that wasn't a very good way of putting it). 2) I guaranteed that Speilberg, Scorsese and Coppola would say Schumacher is 'talented', not necessarily 'respect' him (all sorts of variables come into gaining respect). Speilberg as much as anyone recognise's the worth of light entertainment. Scorsese is a recognised film 'lover' (unlike you). Coppola directed 'Jack' for christ sakes so I'm sure he understands how you have to compromise (not to mention a Grisham adaption that was inferior to Schumachers efforts). I think it's not only logical but obvious that these three would recognise Schumacher's talents. 3) Saying you don't know how to enjoy films was just an 'outlandish' comment by me to get you all riled up. 4) It's not up to me to prove you don't have talent, it's up to you to prove that you DO have talent. Whether you have talent is of no real issue though, I don't know why I put that in the first place. 5) If Schumacher is a hack, then so is Burton. A recurring theme is pointless if it doesn't say anything. And the rather simple theme you pointed out doesn't say anything. (Burton = poor man's Terry Gilliam). p.s. I just thought that you should know, when you're making your unfounded arguements against people, that you might want to proof-read your attacks so you can make sure that you arent making a complete fool of yourself. 'Spelt' is correct. LOL.
-
when im wrong, ill admit it. 'spelt' is correct spelling. geez, i havent felt this stupid since i confused Renny Harlin and Ridley Scott. i think i'll quit while im ahead next time. as for the rest of your arguement, my ego is too weakened by the revelation of that spelling error to get into a detailed point-for-point dispute like we've been doing all along. therefore ill make it quick and then i will procede to run away with my tail between my legs. 1) cinematography... most movies today, especially the eye-candy event movies have really ugly cinematography. i think they look like shampoo commericials but since its just a visual preference, ill say to each man his own. 2) your whole thing with coppola, spielberg, and scorsese runs in circles. if you re-read my post, youll notice that you are very off the topic and making pointless claims. 3) Burton's theme of alienation.... i admit that simply pointing it out is not enough, it does have to go somewhere. off the top of my head, i cannot say what Burton does with this theme, but at least he has one (unlike Joel), so maybe, upon closer study of his work, one can be found (does anyone have an opion of his body of work?). but burton is far from one of my favorite directors anyway, i was just saying that i loved Batman. i found it damn entertaining, and although that might sound hypocritical of me, seeing as how i always bash eye-candy, remember that i like popcorn movies too (Star Wars is my all-time fave movie), i just dont like how all movies are popcorn movies. thats it. this arguement is tired. and Taxman, im sorry i called you an idiot.
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Quint sees some DJANGO UNCHAINED footage at CANNES!!! -- 290 total posts 285 posts
- A Fire Definitely Rises In The New DARK KNIGHT RISES One Sheet!! -- 202 total posts 201 posts
- Tom Cruise Saddles Up For A Remake Of THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN!! -- 102 total posts 100 posts
- Mark Millar Offers Some Interesting Insight Into The KICK-ASS Movie Sequel!! -- 77 total posts 77 posts
- "Some Men Are Coming To Kill Us. We're Going To Kill Them First." Teaser To SKYFALL! -- 245 total posts 77 posts
- "I Don't Remember An Episode." The Teaser For THE MASTER Is Here!! -- 146 total posts 65 posts
- Charlize Theron thinks it is pretty badass to be in a Ridley Scott Space Movie! PROMETHEUS featurette -- 86 total posts 61 posts
- When there’s no more room in Hell The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day will walk the earth. -- 48 total posts 48 posts
- When there’s no more room in Hell The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day will walk the earth. -- 48 total posts 48 posts
- Is Official!! BREAKING BAD’s Final Season Begins In Under Two Months!! -- 48 total posts 48 posts