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Hold it a second... Lasseter wants Disney back doing 2-D animation?!?
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with a story forwarded on by the dastardly Moriarty, from Jim Hill's newest blog.
On the surface, the story is about Disney taking Chris Sanders (LILO & STITCH) off of the CG movie, AMERICAN DOG. But the real story here is Mr. Hill's sources telling him that it isn't because John Lasseter wants to fuck the guy over, but that he believes Pixar and Disney both making CG animated movies amounts to cannibalism.
The word is Lasseter and Ed Catmull want to bring Walt Disney Feature Animation back to where its true talents have been for... what? Seven decades now? He wants Pixar, now just as much a part of Disney as the Feature Animation house, to continue with their CG animation and Walt Disney Studios to go back to 2-D cell animation.
A nasty bit of collateral damage in this move is Chris Sanders' AMERICAN DOG, which had the brakes applied as it was just starting to build up steam in pre-production.
According to Mr. Hill, Bob Iger at Disney is not yet convinced of this strategy, but I think it's a brilliant move. I thought LILO & STITCH was great and really miss the traditional animation. It'd not only be a way to Disney to control a little of the over-flooding of the market-place with CG, it'd make their traditional animated features stand out that much more. It's a win-win situation in my book. It also opens the door for some long rumored projects, like Brad Bird's 2-D feature idea RAY GUNN.
Let's hope Lasseter can push it through... and hopefully we'll see Chris Sanders' AMERICAN DOG in another form or at another studio.
CLICK IT HERE FOR JIM HILL'S INDEPTH BLOG ABOUT THIS SITUATION!!!
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seriously
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I read it days ago somewhere else.
But if Disney produce Torture porn... would it be 2D or 3D? -
About time we had more 2D features of the calibre of The Iron Giant and The Emperor's New Groove.
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The Pixar guys arent genius's for nothing Disney,sounds likeyou guys are getting the enema you need!!
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Keep the Pixar crew doing 3D and have Disney rehire all their quality 2D artists and stop producing sub-par 2D sequels to classic films and make equivalent new classics. I think I speak for a lot of you when I say that we want to see more of the Incredibles, but less of Chicken Little.
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Bandwagon fever!
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I had no idea that flick was actually funny and entertaining until a friend forced me to watch it. Disney needed a fresh start on 2D movies and hopefully the boys at Pixar can give them the kick in the ass they need to start making classics again.
Oh yeah, note to Disney - NEVER MAKE A MUSICAL AGAIN!!! Thank you. -
...The Theif and the Cobbler? Lasseter should release a proper cut of that. I can't imagine it would cost very much money to finish as the film is most of the way done.
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I used to work at the Animation Tour at Disney World, and they've been saying that for like two years now.
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Surely a corporation like Disney can at least have a small 2d feature animation department, why does it have to be an "all or nothing" approach? They need to get back to their roots and make a classic tale into a timeless movie - pick an old fairytale like Hansel & Gretel, Rumpelstiltskin, Rapunzel or something and make a proper disney film again...
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This information was news back when Lasseter took his new position over at Disney. It's ok to treat this story as an update to that previous info, but jeez, guys, get with the program... Wasn't it even reported here all ready? Anyway, I will say again that I really liked hearing Lasseter was thinking this way. The brainless executives who have no real understanding of why movies are popular actually thought that the reason Pixar movies were doing better than traditional 2D Disney flicks is because of the computer animation. No, it had nothing to do with the fact that Pixar simply had better writing! I guess Lasseter would know this better than anyone. Obviously, these old execs only believed that marketing and style over substance made a movie a hit. Idiots.
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Just no more rides-into-films, m-kay?
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. . . to adapt to film? I was thinking A Cricket In Times Square would be good. You could have the regular story & add some crazy subway scene. I'm drawing a blank now. What does everyone else think?
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WIll they ever make a classic again? Like Snow White? That movie, and a lot of the others like Pinnochio etc STILL stand up today as beautiful, magical films. They have wonderful songs, beautiful painted animation, solid, simple storylines. What is the problem with simply returning to those values? Kids still love those old classics. You don't have to have some current cultural vibe or a schmalzy/R&B soundtrack just to please todays kids. I hop that's not what these studios think, because, as a parent, I can honestly say the oldies like Dumbo and Bambi still work their magic every time!
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He was pushing for Pixar to start a 2D studio before the buyout. Likewise he was working with Hayao Miyazaki who he holds in high regard, on a joint anime with Pixar and Studio Ghibli. This doesnt shock me in the least as both where heavily influenced by golden age Disney films and you can see it in their films.
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This story is, what, six months old now? This has been the plan for quite some time, since back when Toy Story 3 got cancelled. They decided that Pixar would handle Pixar property (and 3D) and that Disney would handle Disney property, and never the twain shall meet. Which is the right thing to do. But thanks for... keeping us updated... :)
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I miss 2-D animation. I'm hoping it makes a comeback, but I highly doubt it. It would be like VHS making a comeback.
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Is that the question?
Rather it is nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous 3-D??? Nay! Nay I say! A thousand times nay!
Err...Thouest should groweth a sac Disney! And gird thy loins to do battle in thine once accursed realm of 2-D!
For then....and only then will thou prove thyself worthy of what has come before thee!
(...and pleaseeeeee don't adapt any Shakespeare!) -
I dont see why everything needs to be CGI anymore. Most of those movies have flooded the market now, and they are such poor quality. CGI just feels so lifeless in most cases.
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But it's the fuckin' story man. I don't care if it's Stick Figure Death Theatre, just give me a good story. And ma, SFDT had great stories .... guy get's run over with a steam roller .... that had like what? 5 writers?
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...is a film specifically 2D or 3D?!?! Especially as far as the director is concerned. This is BS spin. Lasseter obviously wanted to dump the film or Chris and this is the new version of "artistic differences".
As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on whether Lasseter can control Disney and Pixar! -
I read about this almost a year ago. It was in every major hollywood publication after the final Disney Pixar deal went through.
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Swear to God, first you post a story from last week that anyone who gives a shit already knows, and then you link us to some cock's blog who shares his stupid opinions with 15 year olds who think they know a lot about animation if they can name 3 animators. Fuckssake.
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i still dont understand why they cant just carry out production of American Dog if it was promising. The shift to 2D doesnt have to be instantaneous, and they arent going to be able to ever just recall that CG Chicken Little blemish.
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For once, a studio makes a good choice! To this day, Aladdin's songs are still stuck in my head. Hell even more girlie films like Beauty and the Beast and the Little Mermaid were great movies.
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hell, I'd even enjoy it if Pixar could do a Lion King type of story without all of their usual tricks. I guess I'm just tired of the hip and ironic in animated films, especially Pixar's. I'd just like to see a straightforward story like the way Disney did The Hunchback, which is one of my favorite animated films. That opening sequence and the music sends chills down your spine and, as brilliant as I think Pixar is, that's never happened to me in one of their films. They're awesome, but I don't think they've ascended to the level of Disney's top classics yet.
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But have they ever really folded their animation studio? Didn't Fox and the Hound 2 just come out? Not to mention how many other strait-to-DVD sequels and such. And to Dr.Zeus, why not adapt another Shakespear? Lion King was a wonderfully done version of Hamlet. I'm not all that familiar with Shakespear but I'm sure he has other plays that could be animated using a variety of animals, perhaps in a jungle or ocean setting. And Horseflesh, why say no more musicals? Again, Lion King, Alladin, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid... these are all Disney Classics, and all musicals. I would really like to see another classic like these, be it musical or not.
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Aladdin? Lion King? Great films, sure, and Hunchback was passable. But The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Best stand up against any previous films in the Disney canon, and something very specific happened to help make them happen: new talent was brought in. Specificaly, Howard Ashman and Alan Menken, but others as well, and they were brought in based on talent rather than marketing potential (I have nothing against Tarzan, but Phil Collins is a far cry from mining the best broadway talent, as they did for Mermaid). Not that you can't go to Hollywood. Southpark: Bigger, Longer and Uncut had several incredible musical numbers that, if the content was slightly sanitized, would make for a great Disney musical. And certainly, there are fabulous folks, both musicians and lyricists, working in the theater right now that could lend their talents to a new 2d disney products. Or even a decent 3d one that had solid writing, great music, and wasn't so visually hyperkinetic that it makes one nauseous (like Robots, which was ok, but good lord couldn't they stand still for a minute?).
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As long as there is a quality script, a savvy director and talented voice work I don't care if it's 2D or 3D. Studio Ghibli (apologies if spelt wrong) and Pixar are the two best animation studio's working today
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Zack and Cody movie? THose bastards are cra-zee!!
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Pixar is planning to make a sequel to their smash film 'Toy Story'......... it is rumoured to be called 'Toy Story 2', and the original voice cast is set to return! You heard it here first folks. God I love 'Aint it Old News.com'
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The best Disney movies were musicals - their 2D efforts only really started sucking balls AFTER they let hasbeens like Googoo Dolls and Phil Collins write soft-rock background shit. Tarzan?! Treasure Planet?! Atlantis? Disney had a resurgence in the 90s with Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King, and Mulan - and Mulan was the bottom of the good-musical barrell, let me tell ya. I'm sorry to the dude who liked "Hunchback of Notre Dame," but shit, man, Victor Hugo is probably vomiting blood in his grave right now just THINKING about that trainwreck. Bring back 2D animation, DEFINITELY, but don't give up on Musicals! Disney's half-animated musical "Enchanted" already sounds like a step in the right direction.
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......is nothing without a good script. Unfourtunately all those people blah blahing about how pure and timeless 2D animation is really dont seem to realise that. beauty and the beast, alladin, the lion king as well as the iron giant all worked because they had a great script-not simply because they lacked a third dimension. if disney want to bring out a 2D animated movie, they need a really good story to go with it , other wise theres no point.......
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I've been saying for a while now that kids need more flash in their animation these days. Pixar fills that role with good stories and sweet 3d animation.
Disney just sucks now and can't seem to move on. They want to tell old stories that kids aren't interested in and wacky animal adventures which NOBODY seems to care about.
Disney should let Pixar do the kid thing. Then Disney should go back to 2d and focus on bringing more grownups into the theatre. Ditch the outdated business model that is no loner realistic (only kids like cartoons) and start going after the huge North American anime market. Get with the times Disney or soon, Pizar will be buying YOU. -
3d animation - im getting sickof the current glut of 3d animated features - 2d (cartoons) have (or had) a lot going for them - and still do thanks to myazaki and a few others - its a real cinematic art that deserves better than being brushed aside because of the likes of "shrek" and similar stuff - i thought "curious george"
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I thought Mulan was really underrated. It had an exciting and funny story and great songs. The shot with the Mongol hoards charging down the mountain was awe inspiring.
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i thought "curious george" was great - made me miss seeing good 2d little kid-friendly stuff
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2-D 4 life!
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When Pixar was accused of killing 2D animation, they responded exclaiming that they loved 2D animation and had no intention of killing it. Seeing as how Lasseter is a massive Miyazaki fan and the world loves the Disney 2D animated classics spanning the past 70 or so years, this HAS to happen.
Disney goes hand in hand with 2D animation and Lasseter is doing the right thing. Lilo & Stitch was great!!!! They have the talent there in those studios, let's let them shine again!!!!! -
that an unfunny white man like Robin Williams should rap in a dated style in every animated film, 2D or 3D style.
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Once more anime starts taking the best animated feature awards home, maybe then Disney will realize how much they wasted all the potential of their 2D staff, and learn to see that great storylines backed by good characters and artists who take full advantage of the 2D medium to go places that live action and 3D will have a hard time matching and try to reach an older audience with deeper themes will really profit them and their reputation. Either they get with the program or I'm fully supporting the Japanese from here on out! Yes, even the ones with crappy quality animation because they can still spin a good yarn! But there is also a lot of shit that thankfully doesn't make it over to this side...
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Couldn't the appropriate people and projects at Disney continue doing what they are doing right, while also returning to cel animation (assuming they can lure back the talent they dumped).
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Disney's entire identity is connected to hand drawn animation.Take that away and what are they? Just a huge marketing machine that pedals third rate toys. From a purely business point of view, this is also a good idea.. the folks at Disney are starting to realise that CG is not the panacea they believed it to be a few years ago. They've been watching 3-D films from other studios tank left and right over the past year and it's finally dawning on them that CGI is expensive... most of these films cost over a $100 mil apiece, whereas their last couple of 2-D films cost $75mil or less. If any of the exectuteers at Disney had bothered to talk to the artists instead of selling their desks out from under them, they would have told them that it is possible for 3-D and 2-D to mutually coexist--even in the same film. WDFA had been using computers for the past twenty years (all the way back to Black Cauldron)as an AID to the artist, not a replacement.A film like Lilo and Stich was filled with computer animation, they just made it blend in with hand drawn work (Brad Bird did the same thing at WB for Iron Giant, which was also made at a fraction of what it would cost to do it all in CG)
Of course, none of this means anything if there isn't a good story to begin with, which is why I'm also confident that John Lassiter knows what he's doing. Eisner and Co. didn't know dick about telling a story and it showed. -
...try something different than the tired Broadway musical format or retreads of myth and history that buried the animated feature in the first place. Incredibles was neither of these and reaped massive bucks. Anyway, 2-D and 3-D can work.....have a look at 'Belleville Rendezvous' and then tell me that the 2-D animated feature film is dead.
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Of COURSE they could do both. The way I see it, this gives them an option as to what medium they what to do a story in. Now they can focus on telling they story instead of writing stupid articles about how they rendered each of Chicken Little's 4 million feathers. But if they want to do a film in #-D they have their already experienced arm of the company on hand to give them guidence and loan them equipment. It's a Win-Win. Maybe(and I know I'm dreaming here) they might even consider doing a few stop motion films as well.
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..this gives them an option as to what medium they WANT to do a story in.(Jeez, I REALLY need to proofread this stuff before I post it.)
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That pisses me off so much. I can't find new DVDs of a lot of great Disney cartoons without rolling the dice and buying a used copy for $30+, only to find out the disc is bad or it's a shitty Asian bootleg. Stop this limited release bullshit, Disney, and just keep making them! You're strangling your own goddamned market and just BEGGING the bootleggers to fill the gap!
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Disney needs to make movies like that again.
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...way to be on top of things, kiddies. Really, they have been talking about this even before they shut 2-D branch down. Basic idea was if they did not get Pixar, they would do CGA movies only for a few years and then reopen the 2-D department to and herald the return of traditional Disney animation. Or they would by Pixar and return to traditional sooner than later.
Either way, they know the Disney Deadites will spend money hand over fist to get whatever crap they produce before it goes into the 'Disney Vault' for the next 20 years. -
was actually a very good sequel which shocked the hell out of me since most (all) of them pretty much suck mickey's furry ballsack. I would like to see more emphasis on 2D. It was certainly a brilliant move to acquire Pixar because without it, Disney Animation hasn't produced a winner in a very long time (Alladin and Lion King). Bring back Mickey Mouse, Davey Crocket, Tom Sawyer, Swiss Family Robinson..there are plenty of stories to tell..
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For some reason Disney has always been better with nightmares and villians than sappiness and talking animals. For example: The Demon Chernabog in Fantasia (scarier than most horror movie monsters) and Stromboli and the Coachman in Pinocchio (You'll make godd fire wood! or YOU BOYS HAVE HAD YER FUN...NOW PAY FOR IT!!) The moment Disney goes into 'evil' mode, their films come alive. They should ditch the silly songs (Ashman, why did you have to go?, fuck the animal sidekicks and disembowel the irritating, goody two shoes protoganists. The results: works of dark genius.
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If they presented the story just right and the animation and music was superb, then that would definately become an istant classic.
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But sans music for the most part, and make it straight action-comedy. I'm probably the only one in the world though...But I just thought I'd mention it. And a REAL Special Edition DVD, with all the available storyboards and production artwork. (although the 'alternate ending' on the Most Wanted edition, using mostly Ken Anderson boards, was kinda nifty.)
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So old... Like over a year.
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How can it be old news if it just happened? Of course it's old news that Lssester wants Disney to start doing 2-D again. But it's NEW NEWS that they just outright canceled the next 3D movie in the pipeline. It means that Lassester's plan is in motion. That said, I'm glad they're bringing 2-D back, but why did it have to be at the expense of American Dog? It was the only truly promising thing coming from Disney CG phase. It's no more Chris Sanders fault that he had to concieve the movie as a 3-D project when Disney stopped doing 2-D then it was Brad Bird's when he had to adapt the Incredibles to CG too when everybody else turned away the idea. It seems Sander's was given the opportunity to rethink the movie in 2-D but refused to after becoming enamored with the 3-D looked developed for it. Check out Jim Hill's story to see what it would have looked like. I agree that Disney needs to do mainly 2-D, and leave the CG to Pixar, when they were churning out Dreamworks knockoffs like Chicken Little. But if Dinsey Feature Animation started making a different breed of 3-D, such as American Dog or Repunsul (look up it's concept art), then that should be allowed to work in 3-D sometimes. I appeciate Lassester, but it seems somewhat of an ego trip to cancel everyone elses CG projects, even if they look good.
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I know he said that he wanted to bring back 2-D when the deal was made, but that was just talk. Now we actually have some kind of light proof. Get off your high horses and use your brain, motormuck.
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and that's why this is old
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... first of all, leave Quint alone.
This is not old news. Chris Sanders was fired this week. Lasster has talked about what he'd like to do for WDFA, but those plans are starting to become concrete now.
It's about the evolution of a story, and if you don't like Jim Hill, I'm sorry, but he has some of the best sources inside Disney, and the reason this is news is because it gives us an accurate picture of what's happening inside that company right now.
And none of it is a foregone conclusion. Just because someone wants to steer a company a certain direction doesn't guarantee it will happen. This is an important week for the future of WDFA, and if you don't understand why, then maybe you shouldn't be whining about why the story is "old" when it isn't. -
The headline was phrased as if this was a total shocker... "Hold it a second... Lasseter wants Disney back doing 2-D animation?!?" When it's just Lasseter following through with what he's been saying for over a year. Not worth of the multiple punctuation marks!!! It's an abuse of emphasis!!! You see how it works?
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And he's a TERRIBLE "writer" as well. His information is gutter scum, but seeing as that's where he lives, it's no wonder.
Everything he reports is either old news or just plain lies. And he's a joke in the industry.
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I don't think it'll ever happen but either Disney or Square should make a Kingdom Hearts movie. I don't know whether it should be 2-D or 3-D but given the fact that 3-D is the current ongoing trend that would probably be the way of it which would be great if Square did the CG. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Anyway, I'm really happy to hear that Disney may be going back to 2-D animation. I'm a big fan of CG but I'm sick of every single animated film being 3-D. Not every movie has to be done in CG and most of the recent ones seem to just be rushed and manufactured. And did anyone notice how disney's just been ripping off everything dreamworks does lately? Dreamworks does a movie about zoo animals in New York going back to the jungle and a few months later Disney releases The Wild. Dreamworks does one about an uptight rat being flushed to the sewer and then I see a trailer for a Disney movie about the same thing. When Disney's not just cranking out uninteresting CG movies they're copying other CG movies. -
Bankrupted their film division on the Final Fantasy flick. I doubt they'd jump at the chance to produce a movie anytime soon. If Disney provided most, if not all of the backing, then they'd probably be the biggest cheerleaders.
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The market has been overflooded with 3D crapfests but the little kids lap it up. It's all down to marketing and fuck damn they'll all be SO SCARED of marketing a big Disney 2D flick now, so all the kids will just go to see the latest piece of 3D shit from Dreamworks.
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I would figure they could crank out 2D features now with computers anyway for that old style look. I would love to see a serious animi movie not from Japland. Heavy Metal rulz!
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... it implied that until now, Lasseter was dead against 2D.
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but that doesn't mean they are no longer capable of producing a film. They just made Advent Children and their working on an extended version of that. But you're right that a KH movie would probably need Disney's financial backing.
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...All they would have to do is remind people of the many 2D classics that Disney has produced in it's existance, and sweep all of it's direct to video sequels and lesser franchises under the rug.
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Just get Square to do it like they did Advent Children... the level of their video game FMV is more than good enough, and it has to be kept all dark and shit! But maybe they can eliminate some unneeded or lesser known cameos... particularly those from the FF series, and it could work...
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I think it is fine if they really do it. But I say if anything do more 3-D than 2-D but still do 2-D. I mean think about it. When Lilo and Stitch came out....how many families do you know of that got it when it came out on DVD and watched it with their kids and everything. Now think about Cars which just came out...how many families went and bought that and watched it together. I know my dad bought it to watch with my niece and nephew and even my step-mom and sister and others sat and watched...I only remember watching Lilo and Stitch with my brother....once. So that's my whole point.
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...is when 3-D is used as a way to quantify the overall quality of a film. It's been argued many times that the medium, whether CGI or hand-drawn, shouldn't matter if a film has a well-written story and interesting, memorable characters. So comparing Cars to Lilo and Stitch is a bit unfair, IMO: if it were entirely up to Lasseter, the former movie could very well have been hand-drawn, and the reception would have possibly been nearly the same. It's also important to note that the two films appeal to slightly different audiences: Lilo and Stitch has a lot of appeal to children and/or anyone who has struggled with acceptance, while Cars I think aimed for a slightly broader crowd, one which included older members who would really have an appreciation for the themes of nostalgia and community in that film. There are probably a lot of people who really liked Lilo and Stitch but not so much Cars, and vice versa.
As for the new direction...well, we'll see. On some of the animation boards I read, there are a lot of doom-and-gloom people who think Disney has simply pissed off too much of their 2-D talent to ever have another renaissance...but, then again, look at the late-70s when Don Bluth and other promising young animators left Disney amid power struggles with those left over from Walt's time. Sure, it took nearly a decade to get back on track (Little Mermaid et al.), but it did happen. Although it might take a LOT of kissing/making up, etc., I'm optimistic. BTW, Lasseter, what have the Brizzi Brothers been up to lately? Not much according to IMDB, so get skippy on that, will ya? ;)
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2D animation isn't dead. The problem was that Disney followed a typical Hollywood crutch. they had renewed animation success in the 80's with Beauty and the Beast/Little Mermaid/Lion King, then they just grinded out everything in the same exact formula. Lilo and Stitch was a step in the right direction, but because it wasn't the blockbuster hit of Toy Story, they just blamed it on the 2D animation. It's not the animation style, it's the stories.
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