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Passage!! Jane Espenson’s
First BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!!

I am – Hercules!! If you’re like me, you grew plenty weary of all the Baltar/Cylon drama in last week’s boxing episode! Tonight’s “Battlestar Galactica” reunites two great talents: funnygirl screenwriter Jane Espenson and showrunner Ron Moore, who once labored together on Herc’s favorite version of latter-day Star Trek: “Deep Space Nine.” Jane Espenson tells Ain’t it Cool:
I had a blast writing "The Passage." I was very fortunate to be given a really exciting (and harrowing) story by Ron and the writers. There was so much there to play with. You ask about stretching the ol' Star Trek (TNG) muscles, but other than getting to work with Ron, it felt so very different. TNG was a show about ideas, and I adored it, but this is so much more a show about people and relationships. I never got to write an actual episode for TNG, but I wrote a lot of TNG specs, and then ultimately an episode of Deep Space Nine, and writing dialogue for those shows involved a lot of thinking about the best, most elegant way to express a thought, while writing for BSG is much more about thinking about the most human, rough, heart-exposing way to express an emotion. I loved it.
And will Jane, as rumored, author a second episode of "Galactica" this season?
Yes, there will be a second BSG episode coming along from me later this season. This one I co-wrote with the wonderful Anne Cofell Saunders. I think it will come along about... um... seven episodes after this one. It is titled "Dirty Hands" and I'm thrilled with it. By the way, the book "Prisoner of Trebekistan" makes an excellent holiday gift!
TV Guide says:
Starvation threatens the Colonial fleet after the food-processing machines become contaminated; D'Anna and Baltar explore metaphysical matters. Luciana Carro. Lucy Lawless.
What Jane and TV Guide are not telling you: D’Anna is using the power of resurrection to search for spiritual enlightenment – and Baltar follows. Also, Kara and Kat lock horns over Adama’s plan to expose pilots to unfortunate peril. Also also, Enzo (remember Enzo? I believe he once worked in Galactica’s bakery!) may or may not know of Kat’s darkest secrets! The last 2006 episode of “Battlestar Galactica” arrives next week! 9 p.m. Friday. SciFi.





Herc's pal Jane Espenson has a brainiac comedy-writer boyfriend who wrote a book about "Jeopardy”!! Read the great reviews and buy it!! Jane’s all over chapters 14 and 19!!

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Readers Talkback
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  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:19 a.m. CST

    Not first??

    by thethedew

    Surely.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:23 a.m. CST

    Second

    by ShatirLavan

    Can't wait for saturday

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:38 a.m. CST

    Third.

    by jinamina

    Yeah, way too much Baltar last week. Hahaha.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Sounds good, I'll take it

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    BSG is breaking new ground with every episode. So say we all!!!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:47 a.m. CST

    WTH?

    by Evil_Imp

    Last Galactica of the Year? didn't it just come back from a 2 week Hiatus last week? so 2 new Episodes and another Break? Damn! Still love the show though.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:39 a.m. CST

    For the love of God Herc,

    by slder78

    It's not enough that you pimp anyone whose ever worked for Whedon, but now you do it for their BOYFRIENDS?! Seriously, do you care about your credibility at all?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:48 a.m. CST

    I hate Kat

    by WONKABAR

    I hate Kat

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 4:45 a.m. CST

    There is a part of me

    by Shivv

    that thinks people hated last week's episode because it involved sports. And that saddens me a little bit.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:17 a.m. CST

    Jane Espenson writing for BSG?!?!?

    by Prisonrules

    TOO SOON!!!!!!!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:31 a.m. CST

    Eddie Murphy pwns teh suk.

    by Abin Sur

    Eddie Murphy pwns teh suk. That's funnier.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:31 a.m. CST

    Charlie Murphy pwns teh suk.

    by Abin Sur

    Even better!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:33 a.m. CST

    OK, that's out of my system...

    by Abin Sur

    Sounds like good stuff tonight. Of course, the problem would be solved if BSG had some replicators...

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:18 a.m. CST

    The best part of last week's ep

    by chrth

    Is the set-up for a What If story ... What If the Cylons had shown up while Adama was on the surface?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:22 a.m. CST

    Invisotext Not That Bad * NO SPOILERS *

    by TheEwokThatDied

    Just saying - I read it - nothing you would not expect, especially if you watched the 'next ep' preview from last week. Hopefully we've seen the last of the Fracking 'flashback' formatted EP's for a while - SO SAY WE ALL. I'll be there tonight at 9:59 with Mushies in hand.....

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:22 a.m. CST

    who the hell is Enzo?

    by SantiagoAtez

    I've seen every episode of BSG, but I'm having the damnist time trying to remember who is Enzo. Is he one of the extra pilots?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:28 a.m. CST

    re: This Show Is Increasing Done By Cliche!!!

    by punto

    I agree. I think it all started on season 2 when they did that episode where they had to network the computers to calculate something while they were under attack, it was so star trek. Still, they don't have a holodeck or time travel to the 20th (and 21th) century, so I'm cool with it.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:37 a.m. CST

    Uh...

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

    Who's Kat?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Enzo is the Half-Cousin of Chuckles!!!!

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Don't tell me that you forgot! LOL. Anyways, I find it amusing with fans start to prophesize doom for Galactica after having to endure through a few low-key episodes per season. Come on, do you really expect AAA episode after AAA episode? If you do then I am sure that you are similarly disappointed with Trek, B5, Heroes, and many other shows that I really enjoy.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8 a.m. CST

    Last week, cliches

    by godric

    I actually thought last week's episode was brutally brilliant. In a season that has been absolutely demented, it was the most twisted episode yet, with Kara/Lee's boxing match going from a fight to almost making love in the ring, with their spouses looking on. I mean...how many years of therapy would you have to go through if that actually happened. So I don't know what everyone is whining about. Even if there are some ideas that we've seen in other sci-fi, BSG tackles them with such flair and originality--I think Season 3 is by far the best yet.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:12 a.m. CST

    Man-of-Stool have a care

    by glodene

    To worship at the alter of WHEDON and his Acolytes is an honor...Btw, JMS is the shit too.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:07 a.m. CST

    MetalWater - you're such a BSG poseur.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    They've already done the "We're Out Of Fuel Episode". Rememeber, "The Hand of God"???<P>Incidentally, your persistent attempts at deriding this show are growing increasingly stale, lame, and weak. Bringing up Whedon in a BSG TB is the true sign of a hapless browncoat. It's over Metal, you guys lost.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:09 a.m. CST

    BurlIvesLeftNut

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Kat is the other ace pilot who is always giving Starbuck a run for her money. You may remember her best for being the bitch that took out Scar.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:09 a.m. CST

    Ahhhh to Be a FireFly on the Wall...

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I think that typical Firefly zealot behaviour entails that they should get upset with any show that lasts longer than one season. Sometimes I think that they stopped enjoying watching TV after Firefly....

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:12 a.m. CST

    ...With Starbucks Help....

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I am a Starbuck slappy who still thinks that Strabuck could take out Kat in a one on one dogfight. That passing of the touch was a tad premature, I think. Starbuck was f-ed up thinking of Anders..... Not any more! Time to pass the mug back to Starbuck me thinks...

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:06 a.m. CST

    don't judge Whedon fandom by Metalwater

    by oisin5199

    Not all of us are batshit insane. I don't know why he bothers coming here every week with his lame ideas and even lamer criticisms. And do NOT go back to that old bullshit thing of pitting Firefly fans against BSG fans (nobody 'won'). It ain't gonna happen. BTW, Joss says that BSG is his favorite show on the air right now, maybe even ever. And I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what Jane can do with the Galactica crew. I find her to be one of the most interesting writers in television these days, with quite a bit of range. Check out her blog for excellent writing advice (though I'm not sure why we'd care what she had for lunch).

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:26 a.m. CST

    oisin5199 - point conceeded...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Not all of the Whedon fans are "batshit insane". Just the majority of them. Regarding my statement "you guys lost", it was not my intention to dig up the BSG vs. Firefly arguement. My intent was more along the lines of DarfurOnTheRocks's post = browncoats are just bitter over the fact that their show is no longer on the air.<P>But I suppose if I wanted to be a dick about it, I could say they lose because BSG is their Master's favorite show, "maybe even ever". Do you hear that, MetalWater? BSG owns Whedon!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:31 a.m. CST

    no seriously, who the hell is Enzo

    by SantiagoAtez

    If he is a real character, could you remind me who he is? Or if it's an inside joke, could you tell me that much?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:39 a.m. CST

    "Running out of fuel episode" already happened

    by S-Mart shopper

    they should do an ep with Olmos teaching his soldiers how to read, with a cameo by Lou Diamond Philips in a hair net. Then as the show fades out LDP can bitch slap Kat!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:03 a.m. CST

    A Firefly MMO!?!

    by Billyeveryteen

    Shiny! Guess I'll have to wait a bit for a BSG one.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:11 a.m. CST

    PresidentBaltar

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    What are you talking about? Why wouldn't Lee have a wife and kid before the Attack? Why wouldn't he sleep with a whore when he's one of 50,000 or so emotionally devestated people? Why wouldn't Roslin have some sort of scandalouos relationship before the Attack? And WHY wouldn't Adama have been in command of another Battlestar before the Galactica (which was his concession for retirement)??? They're not changing the past; they're filling it in. This, in turn, drives the story forward.<P>And what the hell is this "retcon" business?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:12 a.m. CST

    SPAM ALERT!!! - Toasty Tony = Brandon Coleman

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...away with you!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Sorry for the typos...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...I've got the coffee & donut shakes.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:15 a.m. CST

    I agree with President Baltar

    by FluffyUnbound

    Except for the Roslin affair with the President. I always thought in the mini Mary put something in her performance that implied that there was some sort of relationship with the President that went beyond the words on the page in the script. But the rest of the character reveals have generally been big negatives.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Not Retcon

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    ....But exposition. We know who Adama and Co are after the Cylon devastation. But these character's were the product of their pasts as we all are. Narratively, there is nothing weak about flashbacks that contextualizes the present. Heck, Lost has that format ingrained in its story telling.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:23 a.m. CST

    The Flashbacks Reveal ALL the Characters...

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    ...to be human. These are not mythical archetypes that are presented, but individuals with strengths, weaknesses, moments of valour, and of cowardice. It worked for Joseph Conrad...

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:41 a.m. CST

    As Long as Marti "Point Pleasant" Noxon Stays Away...

    by tonagan

    there isn't a problem. Yet.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Toasty Tony! One-Up Yours!

    by Abin Sur

    He has been zinged.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:59 a.m. CST

    I can see that

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I can understand where you are coming from. But, isn't the way that we get to know someone? First we have an impression, but then additional layers are built around that core impression. Sometimes, that core belief is rocked completely by the discovery of that person's past.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Why does Brandon get banned

    by aestheticity

    for spam.. um, earnestly promoting his masterpiece of cinema on a film fan website, while MetalWater is allowed to troll and use exclamation points!!! and reiterate and irritate everyone over and over again?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Dualla

    by Doggus47

    I am sick of her. It's like they took a really hot girl and then replaced her head with a chimpanzee's head. She totally screwed over Billy and there's no chemistry between her & Lee. I was hoping that Billy would've turned out to have been a Cylon and have returned for some vengeance. I guess her punishment is sleeping with Fat Lee then watching her husband pine away for another woman.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:18 p.m. CST

    if someone lives near Toasty Tony...

    by Freefinger

    Go to his house, hit him with a big fu**ing bat and destroy any internet connections .. please.. please do it.. do it now... What a fu**ing moron!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:22 p.m. CST

    aestheticity...

    by Freefinger

    because MetalWater take 10 seconds of our lives with a post, when "Toasty Tony" took 'bout 2 minutes of our lives by going to that jerk-wad sorry excuse for a fan flick once and just doesn't get the message that he's a fu**ing moron who has as much talent his movie making than Anna-Nicole Smith has at winning an award for Mathematics or Physics... And he's posting it everywhere, it's getting ridiculous, get the message Toasty Turd, we don't want to see that piece of crap...

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 12:34 p.m. CST

    love this show....

    by Buzzsawlenny

    and i loved firefly...and lost...and the wire...and heroes but alas i am not conflicted it IS possible to like more than one television show people...but c'mon serenity was a pretty good sci-fi flick

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:10 p.m. CST

    I think Hot Dog needs more screen time

    by Doc_Strange

    Perhaps even his own episode. I remember the episode back in season one where it was him, Kat, and all the other trainees who were scrubbed out by Starbuck, only to have them come back by order of Adama. Then they wind up being among the best pilots of the colonial fleet. As for Hot Dog, he gets such limited screen time that we really don't know too much about him or what he's about. I think the writers should give him his own episode like they did with Kat.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:34 p.m. CST

    All things will be great.

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Whatevers on offer, I will take like the BSG bitch that I am. <p>

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Ha! Nice on, Yackbacker.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Between you and me, I think we've got that chump pinned.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:43 p.m. CST

    "I guess we can consider it a wash"

    by oisin5199

    Ha! nice pun, Kai. Though your non-Firefly mention was almost reserved, for you. Seriously though, nice defense of last week's ep. MNG - I kinda laughed a little at using my info to bait metalwater. And maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to think that most Browncoats (an entirely misrepresented group) wouldn't be bitter about another excellent show's success, but would rather celebrate any good scifi being on the air, like BSG. Hence the Whedon support. Even though my heart hurts a little at what could have been with my favorite crew. Now bring on the Firefly/BSG crossover fan fiction!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:47 p.m. CST

    "one" not "on"

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Seems like I can't type or spell anymore. GODSDAMN!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 1:55 p.m. CST

    More from Jane on this ep.

    by Gudlyf

    ... can be found here: http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/12/06/jane-espenson-answers-your-battlestar-questions/

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 2:31 p.m. CST

    PresidentBaltar & oisin5199

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    President Baltar: BTW, I didn't mean to come off like I was attacking you. I can see the point(s) you were trying to make. I was just demanding more specific justification for your "WTF questions". For the record, I was not a big fan of Apollo hooking up with the prostitute. But I think most folks agree that episode was perhaps the series' weakest show. It felt like they tried something that didn't really work. And the detail regarding Adama's tenure of the Galactica vs. the timeframe of the Valkyrie incident is something I'd like to doublecheck - I don't remember the specifics from the mini-series. Cheers, my fellow namesake.<P>oisin5199: Yeah, I couldn't resist taking another crack at MetalWater with that stuff. Unfortunately, he appears to be one of those Browncoats who IS bitter about another show's success. At one point, he seemed more of a BSG OS purist than anything else. Cheers.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Holy, sweet and ever-loving...

    by Ellipsian

    ...merciful Haysoos, only you can save my conflicted, shredded soul: Joss Whedon is my god and "BSG" is my absolute favorite show--how can I possibly live like this!?!? Why me?? WHYYYYYYYY!!?!? ...should you see something dripping from the corner of my mouth, don't be concerned. It's probably just dramatic sarcasm. Or egg nog. Disregard either way.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Tigh the Spartan

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    .

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Last week's ep.

    by kdoc13

    I love BSG, (and for the record also Firefly), but here's my problem with last week's ep. First, the boxing. I have no problems with the sport, or sports in general. I have a problem with the boxing metaphor. Anyone who knows anything about boxing could see Lee and Starbuck hugging it out as the ending. The sad thing is that the idea isn't even original. While I can't remember exactly where I've seen it before. I know I have. Second, women fighting men? That's cool if you are Andy Kaufman, I guess. Third. I really like BSG, I hate Moonlighting. If I really wanted to see the Dave & Madi / Starbuck Apollo relationship happen, I'd have wanted to see it from the start. That didn't happen. She was hung up on Apollo's bro, then Anders. So what's the deal? The butch chick who is voted most likely to go down on Sasquatch's wife is also the ships slut? Huh? It just seems like you set her up to be this tough guy, and if she just did the frak and run, it would make sense, but now the tough guy is supposed to be that? It makes no sense. Just like Chewbacca living with Ewoks makes no sense. Next, the retro changes. I agree with those who said they didn't like all the changes being made to the past. The thing I loved most about BSG was that dynamic they set up in the first season. Always moving forward, always being pursued. What was the episode that defined BSG? I would say 33, having to keep moving forward, keep running forward every 33 minutes, no going back ever! That changed. I don't mind so much that Adama started the war, in a sense it feels like that can gel with the Baltar storyline. But the Kara / Lee thing was resolved, and before Anders even came back from Caprica. They went to the well one too many times. Another thing, in that short span of time, would Boomer and Helo realy be that forgiving of Starbuck after the toaster stuff in the previous eps? It's been only a few days in the span of time on the show. WTF? It seemed like a big break in continuity of characters. Back to boxing. Adm. Adam should have been flat out dropped by Tyrol. No walking away from that. These aren't trained boxers. They are Navy, and without headgear, that out of shape old man would have been down in 6 good hits. But that's nit picking. That's why I really hated that last show. What I did like about the episode? I like that Pres and Adm hooked up. That is part of the storyline that wasn't a revision of the past, and made sense. But that's about it.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Did somebody mention flashbacks?! :)

    by NoHubris

    I’m not getting on that horse again this week -- except for this: True, flashbacks can show the characters are human, but there are other avenues too IMHO such as their emotional responses to current struggles and private moments with friends and loved ones – like (a) when Adama let Tigh eat the rest of his cup of noodles, (b) Baltar’s fear of Shelly Godfrey outing him in Season One, (c) when Helo watched the Raptor leave Caprica in the mini, (d) or when Apollo got fat. I’m a big fan of the show, but I tune out a little when the flashbacks start (I understand where President Baltar is coming from also). Too often they’re like kind of like that cell phone call you answer which interrupts a great conversation.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 3:46 p.m. CST

    BSG

    by Nabster

    Battle Star Galactica

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Enough about women fighting men

    by Alientoast

    Just pretend Starbuck is a Cylon, have a coke, a smile, and shut the fuck up!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Wonkabar, Kat is like...

    by NoHubris

    ...the woman who transforms (for lack of a better word) before your eyes when you take time to listen to her; show her respect and care; and take her dancing and such. I know it sounds like stuff for violin strings, but I've seen the type.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Give it up, MetalWater. Firefly is dead.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    THIS IS GALACTICA!!!!!!!!!!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 4:23 p.m. CST

    kdoc13

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I think you may have missed the point of the Adama vs. Tyrol fight. Adama cold-cocked Tyrol and kept after him because he knew the Chief wouldn't retaliate in kind. Why? Cause he's the Admiral...the Old Man! If you recorded the episode, listen again to Adama's speech. I think the circumstances/motivations of the fight will become more clear to you afterwards.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Espenson

    by Cobbio

    I enjoyed most of the Jane-penned episodes of "Buffy," though I didn't necessarily love them. She's a competent writer who often thinks of memorably funny lines, but funny doesn't necessarily equal intense or meaningful. I watched an online interview with her a few years ago, and she seemed like an friendly, intelligent woman with a nerdy demeanor. Which I guess she'd have to have for television.<p> Hopefully she'll come through in a big way tonight.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 4:27 p.m. CST

    THIS IS GALACTICA!!!!!!!!!!

    by NoHubris

    LOL, Mr. Nice Gaius. You might've created a new runner up to SO SAY WE ALL!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 5:15 p.m. CST

    BSG is a peacemaker

    by oisin5199

    either that or I've been replaced by the latest cylon model, oisin5200. I'll never agree with you on Firefly, Superman Returns, or...well, pretty much anything else, but with BSG, we're in agreement. At the end of that boxing episode, I was in tears, hand covering mouth, going 'wow.' I will always love television that does that. I've done that with Buffy, Sports Night, Scrubs, Firefly, maybe only one or 2 others, TNG back in the day. Anyway, my building's being evacuated because of a Swat team coming in. It's a long story.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Metalwater you troll

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    I love Whedon and Firefly, and even I know BSG is not Firefly 2,3, and 4, lol. <p> Go hide under your brige you troll. BSG is a new, superior creature altogether. <p> BSG is Darwinism in action. Suck it you creationists!!!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:17 p.m. CST

    And the timer on Baron being banned starts......

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    5...4...3...2...1...NOW!!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Now Voyager

    by Anakin Whoopass

    Sometimes RDM is using this show to reimagine Star Trek:Voyager, which he quit, as well as BSG. Both shows involved a military ship (I know, Starfleet claims not to be military) suddenly cut off from logistical support, but Voyager seldom paid more than lip service to the likely dramatic consequences of that. BSG itself runs the risk of these problems being one-epsiode deals, and because it avoids technobabble we don't really know how food or manufacturing or anything else on the ship works. As long as the characters stay interesting and real (another problem Voyager had) I'm there.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Baron?

    by Red Ned Lynch

    No. No one else does. We do think of you as a flea, though, or a tick, or some other inconsequential but annoying pest, a creature who is distasteful, embarrassing even to acknowledge, yet one which must be exterminated lest its kind multiply and become an infestation.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:40 p.m. CST

    Guess

    by NudeandAroused

    A guess here that Kat is a skinjob.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Blake's 7 pwns Firefly.

    by lynxpro

    Search your feelings; you know it be true.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Cowboy Bebop pwns Firefly...

    by lynxpro

    Rinse and repeat.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Right?

    by NudeandAroused

    Having just seen the trailer on Sci-fi....damn I may have been right!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:04 p.m. CST

    True, there is no equal to Coboy Bebop...

    by Billyeveryteen

    But Firefly and BSG come damn close.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:14 p.m. CST

    SPAM ALERT!!!: El Grande Poobah = Brandon Coleman

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...away with you!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:15 p.m. CST

    lynxpro is absolutely right.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Cowboy Bebop does pwn Firefly. That's impressive considering it's anime.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Firefly Reborn as Online Universe

    by EvilWizardGlick

    I asked the question a while ago about where the fleet gets it's goods. And why isn't there a shortage. Anyway for Firefly http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72263-0.html?tw=wn_index_2 By Mark Wallace| Also by this reporter 14:00 PM Dec, 07, 2006 Like Capt. Mal Reynolds stumbling in after a bar fight, the short-lived but much beloved sci-fi series Firefly will soon make an unexpected return, not as a TV show, but as a massively multiplayer online game. Now that's shiny. Multiverse, maker of a free MMO-creation platform, plans to announce Friday morning that it's struck a deal with Fox Licensing to turn the show into an MMORPG in the fashion of Star Wars Galaxies or Eve Online. The "Browncoats," as Firefly's most devoted fans are known, have been campaigning to bring the show back almost since the moment it was canceled in late 2002. Now they'll get their wish, albeit in a new form. "We see virtual worlds as an extraordinarily promising new entertainment medium," said Adam Kline, Fox Licensing's vice president of media enterprises in an e-mail. "We believe Multiverse can deliver an experience that will remain true to the original series, while enabling a whole new level of personal involvement for fans." Canceled in the United States after only 11 episodes, Firefly has become the Star Trek of 21st-century sci-fi fandom: a show that seemed to remake the genre even as it stayed faithful to the conventions of "hard" science fiction, like engine room problems and menacing hordes lurking on the edge of known space. What made the show special was the wry, often self-deprecating humor of its characters, from the captain with the checkered past to the unwittingly sexy engineer, the dull hunk of a mercenary with a girl's name, and the mysterious young woman passenger with special gifts. The online version will move away from those central characters -- after all, there's only one Mal Reynolds. In an MMORPG, "everybody has to have their own story," says Multiverse co-founder and executive producer Corey Bridges. "Television series can be really good properties to turn into MMOs, because when you make a TV series, not only do you need great characters, but you need to create a full, rich, compelling place," Bridges says. "If you're doing science fiction, you have to really think it out and create an incredibly rich environment that is compelling in its own right, and worth exploring and going back to week after week. That's what Joss Whedon did with Firefly." The universe of Firefly and its spinoff film, Serenity, featured everything from Old West-style towns to futuristic urban environments, gritty spaceships and pastoral retreats -- freedom fighters, oppressive government agents, smugglers, outlaws, mercenaries, trader, townsfolk, futuristic geishas and a race of corrupted humans known as the Reavers. Bringing those environments and character types to life as an online game will be a challenge: Multiverse is not a game developer, but rather a platform provider whose product is still in beta. Instead of making the game itself, the company will hire a development team that will craft the virtual galaxy using Multiverse tools. "We want to find someone who wants to do something unique and fun and interesting, not just a re-skin of World of Warcraft or Star Wars Galaxies," Bridges says. Because the underlying technology is already in place, "I feel confident that we'll see something the public can play sometime in 2008," he adds. Founded by several early Netscape employees, Multiverse hopes to do for virtual worlds what Netscape did for web pages: provide a universal browser that lets users access any world built on the Multiverse platform using the same client software. Already, some 7,000 development teams have registered for the Multiverse beta, according to Bridges, and more than 150 are making MMOs and non-game virtual worlds on a full-time basis. The tools are provided for free, with Multiverse taking a cut of revenue only if developers charge for their games, or for virtual items available within their worlds. Landing Firefly on the Multiverse platform would seem to be a sure-fire promotional move. But satisfying the show's committed fans will not be easy. Online communities like FireflyFans.net, the show's premier fan site, have generated an endless stream of fan fiction, art, blogs, pod casts, meet-ups and even a fan-produced documentary, Done the Impossible, which briefly broke into the top 1,000 in DVD sales on Amazon.com. The announcement comes just in time for this weekend's second annual gathering of Firefly fans at the Hilton hotel in Burbank, California. The "Flanvention" has already sold out, with 500 prepaid attendees signed up. Bridges shrugs off the pressure; he just wants to make "something worthy of the show," he says. "This all springs from the genius that is Joss Whedon. It's rewarding beyond words to be able to hopefully be a footnote in the history of Firefly."

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:21 p.m. CST

    And called "Cowboy Bebop".

    by Ellipsian

    I mean, seriously.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:22 p.m. CST

    no equal to Coboy Bebop, Huh, BLEACH!

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Obviously you never watched japanese Bleach. Not the cut to shit american version. Zaraki Kenpachi rules! Japanese Naruto was better than CB for it's first hundred odd episodes. Now it's all filler. maybe Full Metal Alchemist as well.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Actually...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    "Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex" is some pretty heady stuff as well.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:30 p.m. CST

    No aliens in space

    by Billyeveryteen

    Sorry Evilwiz, I think we're talking about space-opera-sans-aliens, but thanks for playing.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Last Week's Boxing Episode

    by Itchy

    Frankly, I loved it. There's something I really enjoy about those episodes that serve only as character pieces, set aboard a ship and focusing on the "routine" of their lives. For me, those are the episodes that made ST:TNG great. It creates a personal investment in the characters that pays off when the "plot" episodes happen. Some of my favorite ST:TNG episodes, for instance, were ones where the cast never left the ship, such as the Moriarty episodes.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:05 p.m. CST

    Who would have thought

    by Almost_Human

    that coffee and donuts were the diet behind hot cylon 3-ways. MNG, I can see the sugar and caffeine, but you may want to consider adding some water and protein bars for optimal performance. You are running a dehydration risk and the protein bars will help with . . . things. Just a thought based on your good advice RE: cylon sexual lubricants.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:06 p.m. CST

    GITS:SAC

    by Almost_Human

    Very good so far. Top shelf stories.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:18 p.m. CST

    Day 7 and going strong.

    by Gorrister

    I thought not watching tonights episode would be like a recovering alcoholic not drinking the last beer in the fridge. What I've discovered is just how stressfully annoying BSG had become in the last season and a half. I watched Doctor Who then turned the TV off and I'm not even a little bit curious what is happening on BSG now. LOL

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:31 p.m. CST

    Te Lost Room logo

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    ..filling half the screen is annoying me.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Almost filler

    by Almost_Human

    then they pulled out a decent episode in the last reel. 3 out of 5.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Heartbreaking...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Poor Hot Dog, too.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Almost_Human

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I will take the water and protein bars under advisement. Someone thought that it was a good idea to bring in a bunch of glazed Krispy Kremes to share with the office today. So, whenever I combine a couple of those with a nice latte, I feel like I've climbed into a Viper cockpit loaded on stims.<P>Yes, I know I'm being silly here. ;)

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:14 p.m. CST

    Wire-BSG

    by NudeandAroused

    Sorry, there is nothing as great as The Wire. Not that BSG needs to do anything to get anywhere near The Wire. BSG is brilliant. The Wire is the best, bar none.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Kat > Starbuck, so of course she had to be killed off

    by SpyGuy

    Kat's number was up the moment people started liking her more than Starbuck. And Starbuck's big F-U to her hubby last week certainly didn't help Kat's survival chances either. Of course, Dee and Athena > Starbuck, so expect them to be toasted at some point as well...

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Decent Episode

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Yet it did feel like a bit of filler to me, too. I agree that it was the last reel that kind of pulled it out. I don't know what we were to expect from Ms. Espenson but it was a worthwhile effort.<P>I find it interesting that RDM & Co. are giving this kind of attention to second tier characters such as Kat. I guess they find it important to give everyone who has played a significant role (at some point) a decent arc. While I don't think it was necessary give Kat a suddenly unexpected background, it was nice to see that she got to go out like a hero. Once again, Adama's gravitas brings it together in the end.<P>And I do believe my prediction that D'anna would start to kill/download herself over & over again has come true. Not to mention the fact that my fascination with the "babbling" of the Hybrids might have a payoff! But I don't understand how they would have clues to finding Earth. That scene, while interesting, left me perplexed.<P>Tigh's joke to Adama about the "paper shortage" made me laugh outloud. And the appearance of Apollo over Starbuck's shoulder at the very end was a nice touch.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Darth Sidious

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    No worries. I know you're a BSG lover. Why the two TB handles?<P>Mr. President Nice Gaius Balter would be a money name. I might have to lay claim to that if I ever get banned!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Ummm excuse me...

    by Nicholas Rage

    But these people are technologically advanced enough to jump to light speed, you would think some body would have thought to invent fucking SUNGLASSES!!! Hello!!!???

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Yeah

    by Bob of the Shire

    Sunglasses would do absolutely nothing in that situation. Sunglasses don't let you see through thick gases.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:04 p.m. CST

    DarthSidious

    by Red Ned Lynch

    Question One: The same way we reach conclusions (possibly incorrect) about the composition of a distant body, maybe? Questions Three and Four: You're better than these. Question Five: Unless he was tried in absentia, which he may have been, it should lead to an awfully nice beat next week. Question Two: There you go. Unless the answer is that it was so great a distance that the fleet would have starved while they were jumping, which strikes me as...I'll be kind and say improbable. One of the weakest aspects of the show, throughout its run, have been the inconsistencies in jump technology.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:07 p.m. CST

    paulh - If I were Kat...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...I would have kissed Kara. Hard.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:07 p.m. CST

    This seems sure to end with...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...the future's so bright they should have worn shades. So I'm ending the waiting. And clearly I like Galactica in some odd Bizarro fashion, because I kind of hated last week's episode and I loved it tonight.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:08 p.m. CST

    And sure...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...she would have slept with you. But then she would have gone and told on you to Adama. Maybe stabbed you, too.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:10 p.m. CST

    At the very least...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...beat you up. Oh wait, you already did sleep with her. And all she did was shout out someone else's name. You got off lucky.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Red Ned Lynch

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I don't know that the FTL technology is inconsistent so much as it is not fully explained. They seem to drop hints like certain ships (Raptors and the civilian ships) have only limited jump capabilities. Warships, like the Galactica, seem to have a longer range. But it's hard to tell. With the exception of the plotting a jump and Tylium fuel, they really haven't gone much deeper into the subject.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Dude I fuckin love Rachael Ray

    by zillabeast

    Did you see her dominate Giada in Kitchen Stadium? It was a freakin' CLINIC!!!!

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:27 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius....

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...in the mini they acted as though the simple act of making a jump was a rather terrifying prospect. And in part what made 33 so effective was the thought that they were being forced to do over and over again, to the point of exhaustion and beyond, something that was done so rarely that even doing it once in the mini had been a cause for concern. Then, when Starbuck returned to Caprica to get the arrow she did so in what seemed like a pretty short period of time (certainly no more than a few days) by one would assume multiple jumps. And one would think that would have to be a larger distance than the distance around the danger zone in this ep. If not, it does give some validity to Darth's Question One as to how they knew what was on the planet, as well as begging the question as to why they couldn't find a more likely source of sustenance in another direction. To me this is a valid inconsistency, though having some wiggle room in what jump technology does is so minor compared to what any other sci-fi show that's aired has made you swallow that I'm willing to accept it. It's just on a show that plays so many true notes it's easier to pick out the ones that are off.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:36 p.m. CST

    The problem with sunglasses

    by MrD

    Or tinted windows is that they would have also made it harder to find the ships, which had to be visually located. At least that's a satisfactory enough explanation for me.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:40 p.m. CST

    I agree, Red Ned Lynch.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    The mini-series definitely gave more dramatic weight to the FTLs. (They even used that quick zoom effect.) Although, one can argue that after "33", the crew of Galatica had become so accustomed to FTLs that they found them rather routine. Even the Atmo-FTLs. ;)<P>Was the problem then that the star-radiation cluster was so big that they could not plot around it in time? Wasn't that part of their motivation for going through it because of the food shortage? I'm still vague as to how they found the planet though.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Loved Tonight's Show

    by NoHubris

    Best episode since Torn IMO. It did not feel like a filler to this fan since it was about the survival of the fleet (with sacrifices of the pilots to save the fleet) and gave clues about earth, while advancing the Baltar/Cylon arc arc...EJO was tremendous. Adama needs to round out every episode if it's going to be like this...Gorrister, I think you'd want to see this one...RIP Kat (or not?).

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:42 p.m. CST

    "...the Baltar/Cylon arc..."

    by NoHubris

    Sorry about the extra "arc."

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I have adopted this... "after "33", the crew of Galatica had become so accustomed to FTLs that they found them rather routine. Even the Atmo-FTLs"...as a nearly all-purpose solution for past and future FTL improbabilities. And I salute your genius. It is both (just barely) sufficiently plausible and appropriately dismissive of the geekish nitpickery of arguing about jump technology to reach the level of brilliance.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:51 p.m. CST

    The fight against the elements...

    by NoHubris

    ...is another thing I liked about tonight's show. It is logical that the fleet would have to encounter an adversarial environment during their travels (IMHO it was better than your ion stormesque encounter from Trek). IMO it is imaginative that tonight's danger did not come directly from the Cylons, but indirectly - since it is the chase/escape that led the fleet into the dilemma.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:55 p.m. CST

    Sidious Questions

    by MrD

    1) Not sure how they knew about the algae. Maybe just wishful thinking. Maybe they have a record of the place (no telling how far people had been out in the past). At the very least upon discovering this world they would have been able to determine it's distance from the sun and probably the amount of water. If they were also able to analyze the content of the atmosphere, it could have been a clue that photosynthesis was taking place, and therefore some form of plantlife must exist. Two - The jumps to Caprica were done because they were able to use the nav computer from the Cylon ship, which let them jump further. This is expanded upon in a restored scene in the extended Pegasus ep had Adama explaining the difficulty in returning to rescue Anders due to the time and distance involved. I am also assuming that the Raptors are designed to make numerous, short jumps, which might allow them to travel the distance more quickly than older, less capable civilian vessels. I'm also not sure that they ever specified how long the return to Caprica took. Even if we assume the jump to the new world could be done in less than 7 days by going the long way around, they would still need to find, harvest and process the food, which could put them past the deadline. Also assume that as the deadline approached the capabilities of the crew would be severely diminished. In order to make it to that world in sufficient time to have a healthy crew harvest, process and distribute the food, they would have to make it there in far less time. Three - It was "needed" because the story had to have a personal conflict. The stories are about people, and without the Kat story, there's no personal hook for most of the episode. There's really not even enough material for an entire episode. While they didn't have to retcon Kat, they did need to give her something to work through. Five- I think it safe to assume that the Colonies' governing document has provisions in it that allowed Zarek to take over once Baltar was unable to fulfill the duties of his office (which he couldn't do because he was off frakking Cylons). Given the rapidity with which Zarek set up the tribunal to deal with collaborators, and the way he found a way to restore Rosalin while respecting the rule of law, I also think it safe to assume that one of his first acts upon taking office would have been to deal with Baltar's official status. Just a guess, mind you, but it's not a vital plot point, and can be reasonably assumed to have occured off screen, much like Tigh getting his eyepatch. Four - No, she didn't die. But she was dying, and will in all likelihood be dead by the start of the next episode (unless the Eye of Jupiter also happens to grow anti-radiation algae).

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11 p.m. CST

    Red Ned Lynch

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Ha! Thank you, sir. There is a method to my madness...even at my most glib.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:01 p.m. CST

    DarthSidious...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...not being sure Kat died is on the same level as needing to see the characters drive from one place to another, as they did in a lot of films made in the 40s and 50s, to understand how the characters were in one place and then appeared in another. You might have a small legitimate dig with the need for making the jumps through the radiation cloud being a contrivance, but that really is all you've got. I mean come on, "how dare they give this character we've seen only every now and then a backstory before they kill her?" That's not a plot hole. That's plotting. And "I didn't see a corpse. Why didn't they show me her corpse? And the x-rays proving her insides had liquified?" Or how about "how could a guess about the likely composition and conditions of a planet be made by distant observations of said planet?" Now you might not like Kat's back story. You may even have some odd problem with the storytelling technique of fleshing out the history of your characters as you tell a story. But to attempt to label the act of fleshing out a character's past as you tell the story as lazy or bad writing is just nonsensical. Personally, I thought this was a pretty damned good episode, but whether it was good or bad, the two questions I said she be beneath you should have been, two others weren't pertinent, and if the one you're left with ruined the episode for you I'm sorry.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:04 p.m. CST

    Roger that, Darth Sidious.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    And I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of these questions.<P>Until tomorrow (etc), lads...

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...pretty sure Kat's already dead. Adama told her he was staying. He didn't go to put her name at the top of the board until she was dead.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:26 p.m. CST

    "You do know I'm not getting out of here, right?"

    by Bill Clay

    Sounds like Kat died to me.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Why would Bucky hang her picture up?

    by Billyeveryteen

    'Cause she's pushing up daisies.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:44 p.m. CST

    Regarding Kat and the radiation

    by NoHubris

    It would have been cool if they'd done a CSIish shot of her internal organs showing the as-it-happens impact of the radiation. I know that Moore/Eick would know how to put the BSG insignia on a shot like that.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:51 p.m. CST

    Good point B.E.T.

    by NoHubris

    Pinning up her photo was clear indication she was gone since that wall exists solely for those who've passed on. It was cool to see the wall again in this context (a reminder of what the BSG story is really about IMO).

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:51 p.m. CST

    Anyone understand what the wierd cylon in pool said?

    by HappyHamster

    I couldn't understand what she was saying. And I didn't quite get what Xena was saying either. Anyone catch all that?

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 11:58 p.m. CST

    Stand corrected

    by MrD

    I forgot about the scene with the board. For some reason I was thinking the ep went out with Adama sitting next to her. So even if they find magical antiradiation algae, it's too late.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 12:01 a.m. CST

    So let me get this straight...

    by slder78

    Kat died in order to get a supply of the suff that grows in my aquarium? Damn that sucks. And another three-way for Baltar? The guy causes a near mass extinction of his species and then lays Caprica Six. He nearly does it again as president and gets a three way? Wow, genocide sure does have its perks.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 12:40 a.m. CST

    Wow! 3 seasons and we're only in Eps 1 of the original!

    by HellKing

    Now that the colonial fleet got all their food contaminated and everyone is starving, they get through the intense radiation field to find a planet with food on it. Now will the colonial warriors find a casino with humans that are gluttonously stuffing themselves with food and never losing at the pyramid games winning tons of cubics. Then they find out that the whole casino is a trap to lure humans to be food of the insect babies of the alien humanoid Ovions.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Damn fine episode

    by supernew

    It was a pleasure to watch a good episode of BSG after what felt like filler for the past few weeks. I can't wait for next week's episode. Looks like it's back on track.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:20 a.m. CST

    Worst of the season... I hope.

    by s00p3rm4n

    Seriously, people, this episode was fucking bad. Bad for Battlestar, mild by normal TV standards. It's not as bad as "Black Market." Definitely as bad as "Scar." Come on... in every scene someone repeated something another person said in the form of a question. And the other dialogue was worse. My god so bad. It had to be less than wonderful at some point.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:26 a.m. CST

    NoHubris...

    by WONKABAR

    "Kat is like...the woman who transforms (for lack of a better word) before your eyes when you take time to listen to her; show her respect and care; and take her dancing and such. I know it sounds like stuff for violin strings, but I've seen the type." No doubt. It looks the show in some ways proved your point. Now I'm almost bummed she gone. Oh well. This was a good episode...my only problem being the lack of love for the lost ships. I know they were focusing on Kat, but...she's not a major character...so I maybe it's good that she's gone and not taking up any more time from the show. Looks like things are really gonna kick back into overdrive next week. Man, I'd still like to see an Iblis-type character deliver Baltar rather than the cylons just handing him over. I have a felling they're not going to though...god I hope they don't start another arc with cylons and humans trying to make peace. Didn't they already try that on New Caprica? Enough. Heh...HellKing, I was reminded of the OBSG-pilot episode as well .

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:25 a.m. CST

    s00p3rm4n > supernew

    by s00p3rm4n

    I just saw that. Anyway, seriously, "damn fine?" Sharon: "The light's so bright you'll be disoriented and won't know where you are." Kat: "Oh my god, what's going on? I'm totally disoriented! The light's so bright! And YELLOW!!!" x40 minutes...

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:29 a.m. CST

    Only thing I didn't understand....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Why in hell did they need to see the other ships in order to send them the FTL coordinates? They were barking like mad on the comms to the ships and the ships were receiving the coords over the comms, just send them the new coords and jump already you idiots! <p> What they should have done is made them "blink" the coords to the ships because comms were completely down, that would have explained the need to visually track the ship, unless I missed some mundane little thing that explains the seeing thing.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:42 a.m. CST

    whats going to happen

    by dr.bulber

    when the fleet experiences a mcguffin shortage?

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 5:55 a.m. CST

    I like Fyrefly and BSG

    by CuervoJones

    Sorry.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 5:56 a.m. CST

    Fyrefly?

    by CuervoJones

    Sorry.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 6:45 a.m. CST

    A couple of things...

    by vroom socko

    1) Any comparison between the jumps in tonights ep. and the jups to Caprica have to take in to account that the Caprica jumps were made with a Cylon FTL system. They even say in the show that the Cylon model is capable of a more accurate jump over a greater distance. 2) Wasn't there a comment about the radiation crippling most civvilian systems? I'm sure any communication/jump coordinates would have to be sent via a line-of-sight system like a laser transmission. 3) Anybody else notice that Kara posted Kat's picture right under the one of Riley's girlfriend? What was her name...

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Mataltwat. Wouldnt a Blake 7 remake ruin the brilliant

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    original? Youd only hate it for usurping your beloved original. Still B7 had one of the great theme tunes and Servalon was one of the best sci-fi baddies.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 8:38 a.m. CST

    I am so glad that character is dead

    by Razorback

    I hated her character... fuckin' hated her! She was written to be the counterpoint to Starbuck, but she just played out like an annoying bitch who never had "it" to begin with. Goodye Kat. Not sorry to see you go.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Weird ... I just noticed tonight

    by Itchy

    that Kat was pretty hot. The more sickly and pale she got, the better she looked. Bizzare. She's like that Stephanie chick from Survivor ... the more time she spends out in the dirt and muck, the better she looks. Anyway, mediocre episode at best. I loved the hypertechnical "The food is bad" discussion at the beginning ... <Sarcasm> that didn't seem awkward or forced at all </Sarcasm> I know Herc is apparently getting his knob polished by this Espenson chick, but overall I thought this was one of the weaker episodes this year (and by the way, could it <Bing> BE </Bing> any more of a ripoff of the "were out of fuel" episode ?

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Red Ned Lynch

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Oh yeah, Kat is dead. I have no doubts about that. I was talking about Darth Sidious's other questions.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Attention to detail.

    by Optimus Murphy

    I loved the fact that Mr. Gaeta had no applause for the return of Tigh to command.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Optimus Murphy

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    That was an excellent moment. Good call!

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Baltar

    by Alientoast

    The Baltar/Xena parts were fairly interesting. Baltar seems pretty convinced that he is a Cylon at this point. The bit with the Hybrid was some good stuff...now we see they aren't insane, but just perceiving things on a different level. Baltar dipping his hand in the water seemed to let her focus, almost as if he were acting like an anchor before she drifted away again.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 11:17 a.m. CST

    FTL fears

    by drumladd

    In the mini, it wasn't the FTL jump itself that the crew was afraid of...it was that Galactica's FTL had not been used in a long time, and that particular crew had not performed a jump with Galactica. I'd also be willing to guess that with the older systems on Galactica, jumps are more difficult to accurately compute and so there is a little more treipdation that they misjump, as in Scattered.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Burning Raptors leading ships through flame?

    by Billyeveryteen

    Is a bad ep? You babies are crazy.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Wonkabar, nice catch about the lost ships

    by NoHubris

    Along with Kat's photo at the end, they could've pinned up the names of those who died on those ships...Concerning Iblis, we still don't know everything about D'Anna's visions and who she sees between life and death/resurrections. There's still a chance for him/her to show up in that regard.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 12:20 p.m. CST

    Next Week Preview

    by apersonofinterest

    ...Where can I find it? It's not on Sci Fi..YouTube?

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 12:31 p.m. CST

    DarthSidious

    by MR_STIFFY

    Include me and the wifey in the pacifier crowd - maybe it was past our bedtime, but we both felt it was weak as well. Just seemed sort of out of left field - maybe with the Cylon/Gaius plot having been put on the backburner, we're just getting a little cranky. Good performances all around, a few interesting C/G moments, beautifully filmed as always, but just too many "I don't care" moments. ~Stiffy

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Nvrmind

    by apersonofinterest

    Found it...

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Not only is Gaius a Cylon...

    by Son of Batman

    he's THE Cylon.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Jane Espenson’s work on BUFFY...

    by Eric79

    ...was, I hate to say it, very hit and miss. Seemed like she always got stuck with the ultra-goofy episodes (e.g. Superstar). Best of luck on Galactica, tho'.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:35 p.m. CST

    DarthSidious...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...hey, we're just wrasslin' here, we'll do it more later. And just so you won't think I'm a slobbering apologist I hated last week's episode. And I mean hated it on nearly the level of the black market episode. And not for some silly "there's no way Kara could beat up Apollo because she's little and a girl" reason. I hated it because it walked into that Next Generation level of stupid (you know, the one where the holodeck nearly destroys your ship or kills your crew for the fifth time and you put it back online). "Hey, let's put our pilots into the ring for grudge matches." "Okay, I'll get the headgear and..." "Headgear, are you crazy? Oh, and let's make it full contact, too. It's not a fight if you can't take out the other guy's kneecap." "Okay. Umm, Admiral, the Cylons are here." "Launch the vipers!" "Umm, Admiral, Hotdog has a detached retina, Apollo's left knee was hyperextended, Racetrack's still saying I'm holding up eighteen fingers and Helo's was beaten into a coma by Kara because she was sore at him about that betraying his whole species thing." "Well, then let's prepare to jump." "Umm, Admiral? You hit the Chief really hard, and then his head just pounded the canvas. We think there may be bleeding in the brain because he just keeps saying 'Callie goes boomers!' over and over again. So the jump engines are still down." That, plus having as your plan to instill the idea of discipline in your people again being to get beat up by a subordinate in the ring. As opposed to, I don't know, enforcing discipline. I really hated it, but everyone else seemed to love that one.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 1:48 p.m. CST

    I hated it, too, Ned...

    by Son of Batman

    as did a bunch of friends of mine who regularly watch the show. Sure, it didn't make sense, for all the reasons you stated above, AND it was completely corny. Last episode wasn't quite as bad, but not very good.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Rachael Ray

    by Almost_Human

    Yep. Over Kara ANY day. Maybe not over 6 and D'Anna, but over Kara sure. Yep. Just cute as damn button and handy in the kitchen. You could ask for more, but why?

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Ok, just watched it. Six things:

    by chrth

    1) So, they've jumped the entire fleet to a planet surrounded by a star cluster. Hasn't anyone asked how they're going to get out again?<p> 2) I really can't believe none of you caught this: D'Anna is seeing the 5 other cylons (she thinks) between life and death, er death and life. That's because they're boxed; if they box her, she'd be stuck in there with them.<p> 3) What's more unlikely, the Humans going to the planet due to algae for which there's no explanation they know about it, or the Cylons going to the planet because Baltar touched the Hybrid?<p> 4) How unlikely is it that it's the same planet?<p> 5) Why can I accept absolute contrivance in Heroes' encounters but they bug me in BSG?<p> 6) For all of Adama's talk about getting too close to everybody last week, he sure seemed close to Tigh and Kat this week...but not as close as Starbuck and Kat got.<p>

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Chrth...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    I'll tackle a couple of those. Like, why do these kind of problems bother you in BSG but not Heroes? Your quality bar is still set higher for BSG than Heroes. And it should be. The downside of producing a really good show is that you don't get to take the easy ways out because people notice. I don't know if you're a Wire fan, but if when Hamsterdam came to light the Mayor had decided to maintain it and run on its existence you would have probably walked away from the show, as much as you loved it, and as much as, on some level, you might have been yearning for that completely unrealistic thing to happen. When you're The Wire you can't get away with anything. When you're BSG you can't get away with much. When you're a bright new shiny toy like Heroes, just finding its pitch and still building in quality, you can still get a few free passes.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 3:42 p.m. CST

    And Chrth...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I missed your number two myself. And I don't know if you're right. But you ought to be.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 3:47 p.m. CST

    And your Number Six...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...which I wrote that way just because I didn't want to put Chrth in three straight headers. Yeah, I had a real John Turturro moment when Starbuck was beating on Kat with what she knew. Kat should have looked up and said, "Adama? What's he gonna' do? I'll just squirt a few and he'll make me CAG." I mean Helo betrayed his whole species and Starbuck and Apollo have both committed multiple mutinies. I gave them a pass on Kat's reaction as it being the level of guilt she was condemning herself with, linked it back to her overworking herself with the stims and was able to satisfy myself that there was a consistent character line. Which is sort of a free pass, but one of a minor sort.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Oh, and one...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I thought it was just on the other side of a star cluster they had to pass through, not surrounded. They couldn't make it to the safe side in a single jump. And I figured the hybrid was purposefully leading them to the fleet.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 4:44 p.m. CST

    I want to see this genre actress on BSG!

    by lynxpro

    Well, her and Cerina Vincent. One could wish... http://tinyurl.com/y2zoay

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Meh

    by Roboteer

    Despite the writing chops, not a much better effort. If this hadn't been the umpteenth story like this, it may have been okay on it's own. Not only is the series stuck, it can't even stay in the present. It's getting the touchy-feely look of a very expensive soap which advances the story nil. Really hurting now with little human/Cylon interaction. No problem with developing relationships and backstories, but there has to be more. It's getting to be, "How can we NOT find Earth this week?" It's become such a cliche, but how about discovering an Earth probe? They could exprapolate backwards its flight. Thought that maybe where the story was almost headed a few weeks ago. Just give us a crumb. How about the Cyguys find Earth first, convince us the Colonials are the bad guys chasing them and form an alliance. Then they, er we, begin trying to exterminate the Colonials for them. Even sounds like one of their trite anti-war ironies. Adama even looks a little alien. After all none of humanity deserves to live, especially Earth. How many times have we hurt our vacuum cleaners' feelings yelling at them? The question is beyond whether the series should begin some resolution to the main arc, and more of how. It could be present day Earth where the series could spend a whole year re-equiping, recruiting, and expanding the fleet while Cylons prattle on about the mysteries of life. Think how jealous Adama could get when the widowed Earth President played by who else... Shatner, starts getting the goo for Roslin? It could be an ABOVE & BEYOND Earth, but that would mean more models, new stock footage shots, and a lot more money. It's probably never in the cards anyway to defeat the Cylons. It might send the wrong message dontchaknow? Let's just milk our previous accolades and let this all drag to a slow death of it's own torpor like every other series. Who HASN'T Kara slept with yet? Sorry, will try to be more positive when these writers grow a pair. Maybe next year, but my patience is getting shorter than Olivia Munn's jean rise. And that, my friends, is awfully damn short.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Agree with Roboteer.

    by mrfan

    Series is starting to drag. I think that the humans and cylons are going in a great big circle. Just wait. The final shot will be the Galactica finding a planet. Finding out it is Caprica. Slamming on the brakes and turning around.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Caprica....

    by lynxpro

    Actually, it would be funny if they ultimately jumped to what they thought was Earth but was actually Kobol in the very distant past...

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 6:36 p.m. CST

    Or if they found Earth

    by Almost_Human

    and the Bush-Cheney cabal was still in control so they destroy Earth to save themselves and the Cylons. Or it is Middle Earth and they have to negotiate landing privileges with Sauron. Vipers are bad, but that guy had Nazgul. Or they find Earth and it is populated only with the bloated gibbering boneless clone children of Donny 2 Chins warbling their own praises as they roll about the plains in search of cocaine and gay scat porn. The point I am making is that for BSG, isn't the journey really more important than the destination? How they style Earth is kind of irrelevant unless is does something stupid like make all the Cylons a dream or something REALLY stupid like that.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 7:08 p.m. CST

    some good, some odd...

    by chromedome

    ...stuff in this ep.<p>The Odd:<p>D'Anna Xenalon is terminating and downloading herself every day, and only she knows for sure this is happening? No other cylons know she is doing this? Hard to accept, since every instance of downloading they have shown us has involved some supportive skinjobs in the "recovery room."<p>The Lovely Sharon was only involved in the first exploration, and none of the subsequent raptor jumps? I guess it was because her dosimeter went black, but not certain.<p>This was possibly the first example of "backstory" on BSG that seems to lead nowhere-Kat's backstory seems irrelevant to me.<p>when Kat was near death and hair falling out and shuffling along, there was an overlay view of her gettin busy with Endo--was it a [cough]flashback[cough] or were we supposed to thing her Sheddin Shufflin Self went directly to Endo in her radiation-poisoned state?<p>The GOOD:<p>Everyone but Gaeta applauding Tigh.<p>D'Anna doing the exploring thing as I suggested might happen in an earlier TB.<p>Learning that the threesome was real, and not InHead Six (though maybe she is around, too? :-) Makes me wanna sign up for BaseStar duty.<p>Gaius and D'Anna working together.<p>Gaius explaining why he would be RELIEVED to learn he was a cylon--layers of stuff there, well done!<p>Missing:<p>Not a shred of a thread dealing with Apollo/Starbuck/Dee? It was like Espenson knew nothing about last week's episode, which is, I suppose, possible.<p>Off topic: Rachel Ray is perky, but annoying after 17.3 seconds. Giada DiLaurentis is one the most attractive women in the history of women. Channel surf into the food network by accident when Giada is on, you won't surf out til she is gone. <p> I'm just sayin.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 7:14 p.m. CST

    my bad...

    by chromedome

    ...it was the equally lovely ATHENA, and not Sharon who was doing the pathfinding.<p>You love one Grace Park, you love'em all, and names become of secondary importance! Hence the catch-all "Her Sighness" <p>that was for "son of batguano" ;~)

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 8:07 p.m. CST

    "Her Sighness?"

    by milla jovovich

    WTF?

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Storyline and destination

    by jthere

    One of the main problems I can see RDM having with this series is that the overlay of finding Earth sort of makes every episode that doesn't deal with the topic seem to be a diversion. The truth is that BSG would make a great 12 two hour episode maxi-series where there wouldn't be the need to fill space with diversions. You're never quite sure if an episode will deal a galactic truth or a small personal truth. Regardless of these constraints, the Passage episode was flawless in its execution; the beat with Adama and Tigh engaging in gallows humor over the paper shortage was award worthy. As to the future, I still believe that Moore is adhering closely to the original BSG and Glen Larson's original plan: to have Galactica arrive at Earth in the 25th century. Certain hints have been provided (e.g., the Earth colonists departing "more than 3,500 years ago" and Pythia appearing as the Oracle of Delphi circa 7-800 BC).

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 8:16 p.m. CST

    that would be so lame...

    by Son of Batman

    if they finally find Earth and it's us. Galactia 1980 was horrible and you'd think they'd have learned that lesson. Farscape pulled that off pretty fucking awesomely, but c'mon, Battlestar Galactica isn't Farscape.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 8:17 p.m. CST

    and Star Trek IV

    by Son of Batman

    did it well, as well.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 9:16 p.m. CST

    The star nebula

    by aestheticity

    Nebulas are real big. Stars come out of them like candy! Seems to me an irregularly shaped one could be large enough around to be troublesome to circumnavigate, yet thin enough for 2 jumps through. Doesn't explain how they knew the planet was there though. Perhaps it was on Caprican starcharts, or they knew there was a star with a probability of a hospitable planet around it. I liked the episode but introducing these one-episode issues that are miraculously solved troubles me. It's too Treklike. And it really annoys me when sloppy or lazy writing means explanations and justifications that would have taken 10 seconds of dialogue just aren't there.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 11 p.m. CST

    Easily the weakest episode to date

    by dragon-lord

    While the nebula/burning ships FX were very nicely done (hence the reason the boxing episode came before this one, to give the FX team time to finish this monster no doubt), the character work in this episode just felt flat to me...very by the numbers Paul Haggis-y. Still better than 99% of the rest of television fare, but no one every cared about the druggy pilot back then, so we're not going to care that she died now. It's the first BSG episode that felt like they were all phoning it in. The show must be getting ready to go to NBC. :)

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Chromedome: OT

    by veritasses

    I thought I was the only one who thinks Rachel Ray is annoying. That woman just does not know how to shut up. And to make matters worse, she doesn't have anything interesting to say.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 11:28 p.m. CST

    It'd be nice if NBC

    by veritasses

    gave Heroes over to the BSG creative team. I think there's enough material in Heroes for it to be right up there with Galactica as one of the best shows on TV. What RDM did with the huge pile of stink from the original series is just amazing.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 3:02 a.m. CST

    Farscape

    by Alientoast

    "Farscape pulled that off pretty fucking awesomely, but c'mon, Battlestar Galactica isn't Farscape"...The "Moya finally finds Earth" episodes were great. I liked the fact about how sugar was outlawed in the Galaxy at large as a narcotic, and Rygel delights in how all our food seems to contain it or contains fat. The halloween episode where he becomes a junky and mugs kids for their candy was golden.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 3:20 a.m. CST

    dr.bulber

    by Strabo

    I hardly think food is a mcguffin.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 3:44 a.m. CST

    Gestalt

    by Zardoz

    That was a word the hybrid Cylon utters during the show. It's origins are from the German language and also refer to a type of psychology. But its use completely took me out of the moment, because it specifically references Earth culture and should be completely meaningless to a Cylon or a Caprican. (unless the Capricans are in Earth's future) There's just so many cultural and sociological references to Earth on the show, whether it's boxing or booze, dry-ice, toasters or gestalt. (don't even get me started on the production design and props) If BSG is taking place in the far future, a future so distant that the Capricans have forgotten their origins on Earth, it MIGHT work. But, if it's our past and they turn out to be our ancestors, and not our descendants, well, it just doesn't work...

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:30 a.m. CST

    Strabo

    by dr.bulber

    i said the same thing about the blood tests. :/

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 6:52 a.m. CST

    Zardoz. They speak English

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    So all words are indicative of Earths culture. With Gaius having an English accent, I always figured some of the colonies had different accents (and words)

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 7:45 a.m. CST

    Btw on clusters...

    by Alientoast

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_cluster They are rather big it seems. I'm gonna guess they were in a dense one, so that puts it at 10-30 light years across. I guess that might give us a better idea of the max length they can go on a jump.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 8:13 a.m. CST

    On what the Hybrid was saying

    by chrth

    I was watching (as always) with Close Captioning turned on. The Hybrid said some phrases but by all appearances they were random mutterings, I didn't discern any purpose behind the words.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 8:15 a.m. CST

    On D'Anna

    by chrth

    As I said above, I bet what she's seeing is Boxing territory, and she's seeing the 5 other Cylons. Who wants to bet that we get a cliffhanger where D'Anna is boxed, and one of the 5 Cylons is VERY recognizable?

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Rachel Ray is Gay

    by apersonofinterest

    Thank you Chromedome and veritasses..Why is Rachel Ray in a BSG talkback? Fat, The most irritating voice since Rita Cosby, and her show sucks. Giada is a goddess..I tune in just to see her take that first bite of her recipe of the day so I can see her look of ecstasy. Mmmm.... I'd still rather be in a 6/Dianna 3some but come on??? Those Cylons are on to something.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Tighe of the Tiger

    by apersonofinterest

    Back in action!! It's good to see the Col. back in the bridge. Gaeta's just a little sore because Tighe tried to put him out the airlock. Waaaahhhh. Get over it or take it to the ring. I think every episode should end in the ring now, resolving all conflict between the crew by the end of the episode. Fuck it, call out the Cylons!!! Where's Rocko??

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Just one?

    by ElPaw

    How about all 5 being very recognisable?

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 1:29 p.m. CST

    If you do 5, it'd be too hokey

    by chrth

    If you do just the one, it makes the impact more dramatic. <p> Especially when it ends up being Starbuck.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 1:55 p.m. CST

    chrth...

    by chromedome

    ...you could be onto something there, sir! hmmmmm....<p>Lessee, Baltar clearly is attracted to cylons, so maybe he has a Cy-dar thing working for him. And he was definitely interested in Starbuck. He also had some interactions with suicidal Sharon as I recall. InHead Six was, of course, present, and may have been subtlely guiding him. She did overtly guide him to ReporterLon D'Anna, without ever saying she was a cylon, only "this one can help us."<p>Starbuck is a pretty unstable human, so it is not a stretch to see her as an unstable cylon needing a good boxing. <p>Does anyone remember any details of her converstations with that cylon she interogated before he got spaced by Roslin?<p>It would totally change the complexion of her stay in the cylon facility on Caprica, as well as the special treatment she got in the New Caprica jail. Compare and contrast her accommodations to those of Tigh, for instance.<p>Starbuck=StarBoxed?<p> interesting! I give it low, but Nonzero odds.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 2:11 p.m. CST

    apersonofinterest, veritasses...

    by chromedome

    ...glad to find some like-minded friends when it comes to Giada vs Rachel Ray.<p>I do apologize for bringing it in to a BSG TB, but had seen the "Damn You Rachel Ray" subject line up above, and mistakenly thought it had "already been broughten!"<p>cheers

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 2:36 p.m. CST

    The Boxed Five

    by chromedome

    Possibly/probably The Boxed Five were some early model skinjobs? Not necessary to the rest of this Way Out There theory, but interesting.<p>Were they all Boxed around the same time, for the same reason--conspiracy, treason, blasphemy--not just because they were "defective" but because they were Mad/Crazy/Dangerous from the established-norm perspective of the Cylons.<p>Did they get them all, or were some of them out amongst the humans, out of reach of the Boxers?<p>This would leave some seriously pissed off cylons out amongst the humans, with time on their hands, and survival, possibly even vengeance on their minds.<p>These Boxables could have worked their way into positions of influence, power, control (CapSix did it easily enough) in a way to cause the humans to fear a Cylon attack, and to prepare for war against the Cylons.<p>After 30 years, the attack on the colonies could have been precipitated by exiled, boxable cylons' manipulation of events and humans in a way to trigger war.<p>It is also possible that some instances of the Boxables were unaware of their cylon nature--Baltar for example. CapSix seeking him out would have been doubly important--to evaluate him, to pick up and push the work he had been tasked with, and possibly to eliminate him if he was a threat. She was clearly surprised by her reactions to him.<p>The mystery surrounding the Boxed Five is deep: for example, Six's reactions and expressions whenever Baltar mentions them are profound and complex--not just "that is classified" or disgust, but a lot of fear and unknowing mixed in there, too.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Zero odds...

    by Billyeveryteen

    What was Bucky's capture? Cylomasterbation?

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Starbuck's Capture(s)

    by chromedome

    ...might have been some serious study, evaluation, manipulation on the part of the Cylons. They took a very special interest in her on both occasions. I think the cylon guy she interrogated on Galactica probably said some interesting things to her when viewed thru this filter--just cannot remember.<p>Still, long odds, indeed.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 2:58 p.m. CST

    More on Chromedomes Penta-Boxables

    by NoHubris

    I'm partial to your Mad/Crazy/Dangerous idea. I'm aware that certain BSG fans feel the menacing/unknown danger element has been removed from the Cylons. Releasing (or maybe via a breakout) the Penta-Boxed would be a powerful way to infuse a whole new element of raw menace into the Cylons.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Meant to say "Chromedome's Penta-Boxables"

    by NoHubris

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Wonakbar, Chromie's Dangerous Penta-Boxables...

    by NoHubris

    ...makes one wonder Iblis is among them.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 3:08 p.m. CST

    "makes one wonder IF Iblis is among them."

    by NoHubris

    Apologies for the Sunday afternoon lazy typing.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 3:35 p.m. CST

    NoHubris! Yes!

    by chromedome

    you might have to change your handle to NoIblis! That would be perfect--Iblis is the cylon that even the cylons fear.<p>If Boxing is as 'simple' as terminating a cylon with download prevented, then the boxed ones might well exist in that realm D'Anna is visiting and trying to recall post-download. I suspect this is not exactly what boxing entails, since that would mean any cylon killed too far away from a resurrection ship would be, in effect, boxed. So boxing has to be more involved than that, and possibly even reversible?<p>Side note: my theory above presumes that there might be two categories off the 5 boxed models: The individual cylon skin jobs who were accessible, and were directly Boxed. These we can call the PentaBoxed (thanks for the enhancement, NoHubris). I also think it is possible that other indiviuals were not accessible, and so may have never been caught and boxed. We can call these the PentaBoxables, or PentaUnBoxed. <p>So, if Iblis were among the PentaBoxed, in all his iterations, then there would need to be a way to escape from boxing, or to have boxing reversed, in order to bring him into things.<p>On the other hand, if there are PentaUnBoxed units still lurking about amongst the humans, or even off on their own somewhere, that makes things interesting, too.<p>And, if some copies of these PentaUnboxed cylons perished without the possibility of download, does that mean they lurk in that in-between state that D'Anna is visiting? Maybe the Five that she is seeing there are not the Boxed units, but the copies that were never boxed, but presumably locked out from downloads when they die.<p>And Iblis, being a cylon feared by cylons, and being boxed, would explain Six's reactions to any mention of them--fear and concern.<p>I do feel compelled to mention for the record that if D'Anna, on one of her visits to the InBetween, sees DirkLon, well, the sound you hear will be Choking, Gagging, Puking, Hurling, Heaving on a scale hitherto unimagined by mortal man.<p>I'm just sayin....

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:27 p.m. CST

    "Iblis, locked out from downloads" is GENIUS, Chromie

    by NoHubris

    This would possibly explain Baltar getting involved in D'Anna's experiments. If as you say, Iblis is one of the PentaBoxed, trapped between Cylon death and resurrection, Baltar's tinkering with D'Anna's death to resurrection trips could be the trigger which provides Iblis with his means of escaping. Now that would be another BIG blunder for Baltar - first he unleashes the attack, then he unleashes the force (Iblis) that makes the attackers more horrifying. Just a thought.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Ok, I give up: Who is Iblis?

    by chrth

    He(?) has been mentioned several times over the last few weeks in the TB, and since I never saw the original BSG (except for the ep where Face and a Cylon end up on a planet together--although, that was BSG1980), I have no idea who Iblis is.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Speakee English?

    by Zardoz

    Well, of course they all speak English; I don't expect the producers to have all the characters speak in some made-up alien language. But are they speaking English for a practical reason, i.e. so all the TV viewers can understand them, or for aesthetic reasons, because they are our English-speaking descendants? I mean as long as I'm nit-picking about Earth cultural references in the show, I can't forget the Greek and Roman gods they all worship, right? (oh and btw, I watch BSG and most shows with captions, too. It really helps during action scenes and sometimes you see differences in the script as written versus the one filmed; on this ep they changed the name of one of the gods Baltar and Xena were discussing)

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:41 p.m. CST

    THIS IS GALACTICA!!!!!!!!!!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Sorry, but I just had to say that again.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:43 p.m. CST

    chrth, here's a link RE: Iblis

    by NoHubris

    http://tinyurl.com/yyqgwc

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:46 p.m. CST

    P.U.

    by bluebottle

    that stunk.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Of course, Iblis would have to be re-imagined...

    by NoHubris

    ...after the manner of Baltar, because TOS Iblis would certainly not stand up to the new BSG standards. The link was just for reference only.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Chrth...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...In my very favorite episodes of the original series Count Iblis (played by the wonderful Patrick MacNee from The Avengers) was discovered on a planet and claimed to be the only survivor of an attack which had taken place. It turned out that he was a powerful force of evil, sort of a Lucifer figure, who was able to make crops grow overnight among a great many other preternatural abilities. He presented himself as a savior to the refugees, and except for Adama and Apollo they seemed ready to embrace him. He was pursued by mysterious white (meant to seem like the old WWII reported fu fighters) ships, who he presented as his enemy. Since Patrick MacNee also voiced the Cylon Imperious Leader (the Cylon leader in the original series) it was presumed that he was the creature who served as a template for the head Cylon. In the end Iblis kills Apollo and the creatures in the white ships are allowed (by some cosmic rule) to intercede. Iblis is banished, Apollo returned to life and The (faceless, all dressed in white)inhabitants of a great big "City of Heaven in the Sky (said little Stevie Spielberg)" give Apollo, Starbuck and the always annoying Anne Lockhart the coordinates to Earth, at the same time making them forget everything about their visit to outer space heaven. And yeah, this two-parter was probably the best (along with the Kane two-parter) the original had to offer.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:54 p.m. CST

    inconsistencies

    by lynxpro

    First off, Chrth, Iblis (Count Iblis) was a character in the original BSG, portrayed by Patrick Macnee (sic), better known from *The Avengers*. He was a demonic character, and it was noted that his voice was the same as the Cylon's Imperius Leader (who Macnee also voiced). As for the inconsistencies... I can't remember if it was Caprica or if it was D'Anna who uttered that perhaps there was a link between the Cylon God and the Lords of Kobol. I thought Athena had already mentioned the link - how the Lords of Kobol weren't gods but something else - when they traveled to Kobol. Someone wrote on Wikipedia that the Cylon God was originally one of the twelve Lords of Kobol who demanded "He" be elevated above all the other Lords (sorta sounds like Satan). I think it was noted that RDM mentioned this, although I cannot substantiate that. Personally, this would rock because it was alluded to that Iblis in the original series was responsible for the creation of the Cylons (whether or not he was the "god" of the lizard beings who created the Cylons originally or not is a different question). And some of us know that Iblis is the name of a demon in the Koran. Also of interest to note that in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, Timothy Zahn created a popular character named Bel Iblis who was a rogue Corellian commander not originally affiliated with the Rebel Alliance but carried out his own personal war against the Galactic Empire. Very Commander Cain, indeed. :) I think it would be sweet if RDM went back to his idea of having Dirk Benedict portray the Cylon God, whether or not he goes by the name Iblis.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Thanks NoHubris

    by chrth

    <nt>

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Forgot to mention...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...in this two parter Adama went all Jedi and made cups move across tables. Hey, I was a little kid, all right? It rocked.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:09 p.m. CST

    In addition to Iblis...

    by Son of Batman

    What about Lucifer? Or Aurora? Or Kronos? Or Chameleon? Or the Young Lords? Or Muffit?

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Nice follow up, Red Ned Lynch

    by NoHubris

    First hand knowledge is much better than a link. BTW, great recall too.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Son of Batman...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    Dr. Smith is dead. You have to let Lucifer die with him.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:15 p.m. CST

    No Hubris...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I knew I was going to drone on until someone succinct put up the answer first. Unfortunately, I fall into that "you'd rather die than be quiet" category. And I better remember it. As a 12 year old I saved up money for all of one summer to buy a cheap little television just to watch the original Galactica. Lot of water under that bridge.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:16 p.m. CST

    RE: Cylon god

    by NoHubris

    At least at this point, with Baltar asking D'Anna if she'd seen his face between resurrections, it appears as if TPTB are directing our attention to Baltar as a possibility, building on his previously established position as the Hand of god (from "Hand of God" in season 1.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Nah, c'mon...

    by Son of Batman

    Baltar and Lucifer had such a close "relationship" on the original series that it's not so far fetched that they may be the same "person" now on the new series. And maybe the "boxed" Cylons aren't even human-looking? Maybe they're more like the hybrids than they are like the skinjobs.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Interesting ideas, guys.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    But if Gaius turns out to be a Cylon and/or Adama starts to move stuff with his mind (i.e Roslin's undergarments), I'm quitting this show, throwing my TV out the window, and blaming every one of YOU!

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:21 p.m. CST

    I don't think Baltar is a Cylon

    by chrth

    Too obvious if he were. I've used this analogy before, but last season on 24, we all thought the Veep was the Big Bad until Jack started thinking it. Once that happened I said ... wait a second.<p> Same here. Once Baltar starts thinking he's a Cylon, he likely isn't.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:25 p.m. CST

    and...

    by Son of Batman

    didn't one of the drawings (specifically the left-facing profile with the beard) look a lot like Baltar?

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Double thanks, then

    by NoHubris

    Diehard fans (or is it diehard-than-be-quiet fans?)like you are the reason BSG came back. :)

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:30 p.m. CST

    As much as a part of me would like it...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...it undercuts too much of the moral and metaphorical grounding of the series if Baltar turns out to be a Cylon. Even a Count Iblis figure. And even though there are things that have been said and happened since the mini that could very easily be interpreted as clues setting the groundwork for Baltar being such a figure (i.e. surviving the nuclear blast, Soul 6's constant comments on how "good" Baltar is at surviving, how he's not like the other humans). To me the new Galactica seems to follow the form of classic tragedy too closely for Baltar not to be exactly what he appears.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Just out of curiosity ...

    by Itchy

    what the hell ever happened to the whole spiritual prophecy storyline with the President going to the temple, and Starbuck retrieving the Arrow of Athena or whatever the hell it was. Did I hallucinate that whole plotline from last year ?

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:45 p.m. CST

    I think I could deal with Baltar as the Cylon god...

    by NoHubris

    ...in the context of being a clone of the original human creator of the Cylons should Lords of Kobol turn out to be ancient Cylons somehow (as per the beacon episode?), but I do understand MNG's point. (Mr. Nice Gaius, please don't blame this fan if the Iblis ideas end up in the show. After your rendition of THIS IS GALACTICA!!!!!!!!!!, I'd be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 5:51 p.m. CST

    i hope

    by ikkyu

    they let go completely of all OS stuff, Iblis included. it doesn't need it - new BSG has taken an old idea and reimagined it - that's a spring board from which to leap off in new directions. fuck the old stuff - that'll just box tyhe series into a corner. it needs new ideas now, and it needs to keep us guessing until we get to the new, unexpected, and really cool conclusions.<p>my 2 cents.<p>i'm missing Sharony nakedness.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 6:10 p.m. CST

    crazy theory #155876b: the five...

    by ikkyu

    were human scientists who were working together on DNA cloning/cybernetics/memory copying/etc. in an attempt to beat death - they wanted to live forever, d'loading into new bodies. the Cylon god was a human scientist - maybe one of the five - whose cybernetics expertise they needed. the experiments went wrong - maybe Cylon-God tried to create cyborg AIs (which evolved into Hybrids) as part of it, and they took over the toaster Cylons, boxed the five, and created the skinjobs. they created a religion out of their boxed maker, who they both love and fear. after some time and evolution, it's coming apart - the skinjobs are going mad, the hybrids are already mad - they came up with the crazy idea to kill all humans, for instance. now, they're trying to repair themselves with human DNA, maybe thinking they need another strain from Earth or something. but they're afraid that it won't work and they'll end up having to wake up the five and face their God's wrath...<p>or not.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Grace Park is really, really hot

    by ikkyu

    and i have too much time on my hands.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 6:15 p.m. CST

    I don't want Baltar as "purely evil"

    by lynxpro

    After all, Adama is just as guilty as Baltar - if not more - in terms of the destruction of the 12 colonies. It would be interesting to see what would happen during a future trial of Baltar if Bulldog was called in for questioning. The thing about bringing in the Cylon God though, would basically break RDM's prohibition on aliens appearing. If the Lords of Kobol aren't gods nor human, then they were aliens. Bah...everyone knows the Cylon God is a Dalek and the skin jobs are just "robomen". Heh.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 6:40 p.m. CST

    I want Gaius on the high throne..

    by Billyeveryteen

    Pegasus did indeed rock the old series. However, new Pegasus rocked much harder. New Iblis could be cool.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Gaius as Cylon master...

    by lynxpro

    I dunno... That would be a little bit like Lor(e) taking control of the Borg back on TNG...

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Itchy, I'm missing the "spiritual/prophecy" aspect too

    by NoHubris

    Instead of all the flashback stuff, I would have preferred further exploration of mythical/prophecy elements. Yeah, it does kind of feel like we've been left hanging out there for awhile on that.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Six's In-Head-Baltar from Downloaded...

    by NoHubris

    ...could be a type of Iblis. Just a thought.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 8:42 p.m. CST

    ikkyu....

    by WONKABAR

    "i hope they let go completely of all OS stuff, Iblis included. it doesn't need it - new BSG has taken an old idea and reimagined it - that's a spring board from which to leap off in new directions. fuck the old stuff - that'll just box tyhe series into a corner. it needs new ideas now, and it needs to keep us guessing until we get to the new, unexpected, and really cool conclusions."....I totally disagree. The new show is at it's best when they put a new spin on the core-stories/fundementals from the TOS arc...the mini/destruction of the colonies, Kobol, Peagsus etc. Certainly they should avoid any of TOS's filler stuff, but when they stray from the big ideas of TOS they often end up with their own un-even filler edisodes. Which, while they're still varying degrees of good, at the end of the day, "Kat's background-story" = "Apollo on cowboy-planet". If anything they're in a corner NOW. The show could get a hell of lot more interesting if lynxpro and chromedome are correct (nice thinking guys)... intersting in ways that it hasn't been since Kobol or Pegasus. If New Caprica was any indication of "new ideas" then I'd prefer the writers go back to the well a couple more times before they get to Earth. My two cents.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Espenson to audience:

    by Christopher3

    "Cryyy, damn you, CRRRYYY!!!" Same thing she did for Buffy.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 8:47 p.m. CST

    I agree with MNG...

    by chromedome

    ...if you are asking yourself, "am I a cylon" then you are probably not. I think it is better for the show, in any case, that Baltar is purely human. His "yearning" to learn he is really a cylon after all is just the result of his guilt for betraying humanity time and again. He is looking for what seems to be an easy out. Makes him a much more interesting character--and the fact that he feels such guilt is so much better writing than if he were to be a remorseless guiltless evil villain type, as would be the case in a lesser show.<p>But huge Kudos to chrth for the Starbuck idea, and to NoHubris for the Iblis idea. I think there are possibilities there, and while I don't wanna see everything from TOS somehow realized and re-interpreted in BSG, even as a mere kid I could tell that the Iblis story arc in TOS was just about the best thing they did. And the white glowey folks--Lords of Kobol, agents/angels of the One God? The allegory in TOS was definitely Iblis = Satan and white beings = angels. So if they put Iblis into BSG in their usual Expertly-Done fashion, I will be fine with that.<p>But I agree with Son of Batman and Ikkyu that we don't need all those other characters from TOS.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 8:56 p.m. CST

    wonkabar is on the money, here...

    by chromedome

    we don't need BSG to reimagine or reinterpret everything, or even most things, from TOS. But if things are picked and chosen carefully, as they have been so far, and done the way they are doing them now, they can take the best ideas from TOS and make them SO much better.<p>BSG's Baltar is so much more interesting now.<p>The Cylon race and culture is so much better realized now.<p>The main characters are all deeper and darker and multi-dimensional now.<p>The fundamental conflict between the cylons and humans is so much more complex and multi-faceted, with motivations and causes explored. Not the simplistic "fleeing the cylon tyranny" from TOS.<p>and all of these things are lifted from TOS and then reamed and retooled into something far greater.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Thanks Chromedome. Kudos go to Wonkabar too

    by NoHubris

    He was the initial "trigger man" for the Iblis discussion. I was waiting for him to chime in (Wonkabar, what took you so long?) :-).

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 9:08 p.m. CST

    NoHubris...

    by chromedome

    you are welcome, sir. And cred to wonkabar, too--sorry for the oversight. Looooong TB this time around.<p>BTW, I like your idea that it might be BALTAR'S messing around in the InBetween, not only D'Anna's, that leads to the escape of Iblis!! <p>Imagine the Symmetry: Baltar with CapSix enables the attack on the entire human race, amongst whom they are living. Now, Baltar and D'Anna enable an attack on the Cylons, amongst whom they are living!<p>Who will Baltar yearn to really be, then, for his easy out guilt-removal true self? And who will take him in with his track record? LOL

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 9:10 p.m. CST

    I agree chrome

    by WONKABAR

    I think it's cool if Baltar "identifies" more with the cylons...hence, his motivation for wanting to side with them (something TOS never explained). Baltar being "one of them" would ruin that transformation I believe. And to reiterate what I posted a few moments ago...I think the show has basically been off-track since the second half of last season. New Caprica had it's moments, but since abandoning the trend of following the high-points of TOS, Kobol, Pegasus etc... they have basically been floundering a little bit. They need to hit the next big story in line...Iblis. And then perhaps hit the Earth fake-out arc of "Terra". And then maybe even consult with Larson and Bellisaro about where they might have gone with TOS after that had they had the chance. I think they should hold off another season or two before going off the map into "new territory". Not untill they've re-imagined ALL the things that were sucessful on TOS, IMO.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Hey, thaks for the kind words fellas.

    by WONKABAR

    Hubris...I was up in LA all day yesterday, and I've been watching the NFL all day today...I'm a Chargers and Saints fan. Cheers.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Baltar is just a coward, a perfect coward

    by chrth

    I love how he quickly went from 'Am I a Cylon?' to 'I hope I'm a Cylon' just to assuage his guilt. One of the best written characters on TV. I'm beginning to get bored when Baltar/Cylons aren't around. Although next week looks fun.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 9:45 p.m. CST

    Chrome, with that "Symmetry"...

    by NoHubris

    ...Baltar, Caprica-Six, and Boomer (along with the hybrid/Basestar?) will end up having to flee a new kind of Cylon tyranny themselves. Isn’t that Baltar’s way? The man makes friends by creating joint enemies.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 9:59 p.m. CST

    what happens...

    by Son of Batman

    if Baltar really is a Cylon and he's killed and he's resurrected with Caprica Six in his head? Isn't C6 a Lucifer-like character, in the traditional sense?

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 10:21 p.m. CST

    I fu**in glove this show but...

    by Freefinger

    Didn't this one and the previous one.. kinda... slacked a little bit... I kinda feel like they just went on and on, but I also likke the way of killing off a character, making her a drug runner that actually did something right in the end. Way too much of the Baltar saga aboard that ship, it's getting weak.. I really hope they go somewhere fast with this, I won't be able to watch much more of him weeping all the fucking time. I hope they start roughing him up, make him a little more like the first series character so he can actually take some command of the Cylons and get them to Earth.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 10:25 p.m. CST

    this is a fun discussion!

    by chromedome

    Wonkabar:Yes, let's hope BSG reimagines the best of TOS along whatever path they forge ahead now. Iblis was the best arc of the TOS, so one can hope it shows up here.<p>chrth: I agree--the Baltar on Basetar thread is the best part of the tapestry they are weaving right now, and I am always glad to see that show up. I think, in part, it is simply because everything there is mysterious and new and full of possibility. Back in the human fleet, everything has devolved back to desperation and inter-relationship problems--they need to find a unifying and interesting problem to solve--maybe this algae planet will trigger that, and next week does look good.<p>NoHubris, you may have just hit on the mechanism that gets Baltar a basestar of his very own! If he and CapSix, D'Anna, and InHead Six gotta run, bet he would love to run with BaseStar, and a hybrid he can keep studying. Maybe BillyEveryteen gets his Baltar on a BaseStar HighChair after all!<p>Son of Batman, Excellent point that the reimagined Baltar/Lucifer from TOS might well be Baltar and InHead Six. And a downloaded Baltar cylon would be interesting, for sure--would InHead still be there? But I am still leaning to Baltar as not a cylon.<p>Though Baltar is clearly very significant to the cylons for some reason--but if he is a cylon, THEY don't seem to know it. They think he is a loon whenever he broaches the subject.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 10:43 p.m. CST

    okay, here's a question

    by oisin5199

    When Baltar's walking through the base ship and approaches D'Anna, how does he know it's 'his' D'Anna that he's talking to? Do they wear nametags? As far as his accent, I'd refer to Chris Eccleston's line from Doctor Who: "Lots of planets have a North." Have to say, was underwhelmed by this episode. The Kat situation seemed really contrived and the jump stuff was pretty confusing. The scene between Adama and Tigh and the Cylon scene were the best, imo. Jane definitely interpreted Baltar on the nose with his 'wanting to identify with the Cylons' speech. Overall, though, Definitely expected more from Jane. In fact, I totally forgot it was her until I came back here. Hopefully, she's finding her way and her next one will be better.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Also....

    by oisin5199

    Inhead 6 is a Mephistophelean character, not Luciferian. There's a difference. I wish we could see what happened to Cap's Inhead Baltar. I kept waiting for a scene with the 2 inhead characters having a discussion. That would be a mind blower. And oh yeah, forget Rachel Ray and big-head Giada. The Food Network goddess has to be Nigella. Or as I refer to her, Nutella. (there's a joke here about smoothness and spreading, but I'm not crass enough to make it). Gotta love all the ads for her program that show her licking spoons. Yum.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Caprica 6 is like both...

    by Son of Batman

    Mephistopheles AND Lucifer. Mephistopheles was the first angel to join Lucifer in his rebellion against God. He became Lucifer's second in command in Hell after his defeat. Lucifer is also associated with being the Morning Star, the deliverer of light, and shares many aspects of the Prometheus myth. Lucifer has also been connected with the Snake in Genesis. Tree of Knowledge, betrayal of Man, exile from Eden, etc.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 12:16 a.m. CST

    what???

    by lynxpro

    I thought Azazeal was the first angel to side with Satan/Lucifer, and I know that not because I watch *Hex*, thank you very much. Azazeal is Satan's standard-bearer. As for the "Morning Star", Jesus also referred to himself as such. Put that in your pipe and smoke it! Heh. And thanks for the kind words, Wonkabar.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 12:20 a.m. CST

    since original the BSG is based upon LDS...

    by lynxpro

    ...and *Battlefield Earth* is based upon Scientology... Does anyone think it possible to create a scifi mythology based upon David Koresh's ideas? Wow...nutjob religions can make for great scifi; And furniture if one counts the Shakers. Come to think of it, the Force is based upon the Tao, but I've never really considered that to be a nutjob belief system... Hmmm. I should put in the disclaimer that *Battlefield Earth* was in no way a kickassery of scifi goodness. Its just not good "tech". Heh heh.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Azazeal or Azazel also goes by the name...

    by Son of Batman

    Ilbis. A standard bearer carries a flag, sure, but isn't necessarily a ranked individual.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 2:17 a.m. CST

    Lynnxpro. Funny post but...

    by WONKABAR

    BSG was never based on LDS. Although Glen A. Larson was raised mormon, by the 70's he was very into Egyptology/Chariots of the Gods/13th Planet type of shit. The whole "life here began out there" and Atlantis stuff pretty much conflicts with Judeo/Christian belief. Neither SW or LDS had much influence BSG as many still claim. Larson & Co. were going for something else entirely.(Too bad they had to rush out an expensive weekly show.) Adama was spritual, but he was also a realist. I think they kinda split his character between "Bill" Adama and Roslyn on the new show. An interesting idea, and something similar was hinted at (though not as well done) on TOS episode "Baltar's Escape". Glad to see they explored it further on TNS. The new show, while it definitely blows the old one away on many levels, it also...strangely, makes it look better. Enough to where I think the writers should, as I've said before, continue to draw from it.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 6:12 a.m. CST

    You guys can have your

    by Almost_Human

    stuck up looking and acting Giada the Caterer and day. So what she's hot. Who would want to spend time with that fake personality? No, if that is the kind of gal you like, you would NEVER understand the appeal of a Rachael. I'll take the friendly and imperfect Rachael the Cook any day. Lower maintenance and a better cook (Not a better caterer, there is a difference just like between cook and chef). Now if we could just get a swinging BSG - Food TV crossover. Iron Chef Galatica. Now THAT would be entertainment. And I think Gaius is indeed being setup as THE cylon.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 6:46 a.m. CST

    Another semi reg bites the dust!

    by Dazzler69

    I will miss Kat on the show. They ended her nicely and made her death seem important. I wonder if her real life she got a DUI? I wonder if this was the top ten death character that behind the scenes vid on sci-fi.com ? I hope so, I can't take too many more deaths on this show. I wonder if the live count in the opening is corrected every week b4 a new ep?

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 9:06 a.m. CST

    Boomer

    by jtp8000

    Where is Boomer (the one who shot Adama)? When she was resurrected on Caprica she was putting on a front that she was like the other Cylons and had put her "Human" side away but that was supposedly an act that Caprica 6 told her to keep up.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Weak Episode.

    by fireclown

    90% filler. There better be more than met the eye than the "sacrificing myself to prove myself worthy" schtick. Two odd word choices are in my mind though. a] Boxing of cylons as opposed to Boxing among the human fleet. b] "End of line" as gibberish from the magical tub cylon as opposed to the words "end of line" in 3s' dream. Discuss

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 10:02 a.m. CST

    jtp8000

    by Freefinger

    Good point! WHERE'S BOOMER (original)???? Man this discussion is fun! All this talk about who's the devil and not, I guess BSG clearly sends us all searching for clues on how to find Earth... Wait A SECOND!!! WE FOUND IT! Didn't we?... Is this Earth the Earth they're lookinf for or are we another colony after Earth no 1 got destroyed by some random Cylon attak who then died after reaching the abandonned telescope?? FRAK!!!

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 10:09 a.m. CST

    fireclown

    by Freefinger

    Wo.. for a minute there I read "FireCrotch"!!! GOod thing it was "..Clown"... Yeah agreed that the death was kinda weak, but still not as bad as it could have been. The boxing thing I still don't know why this had to be a whole episode about Apollo's love for Starbuck and vice versa for more than half the episode. Kinda weak... Then the whole shpeel about afighter fights thing... was kinda "blah" to me too. This last one was too long so I hope they don't bring the writers too often unless they start making the crew interac more. And the whole laughing with Adama and the Colonel? WTF? I wonder where they wanted to go with this one, 'cause it was long...

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 11:17 a.m. CST

    RE Morning Star/lynxpro/Wonkabar

    by NoHubris

    Both you fellas are right. Jesus is called “the bright and morning star” in the Book of Revelations, while in Isaiah, Lucifer is called “son of the morning” (King James Version) and “star of the morning, son of the dawn” (New American Standard Bible). Also, it’s interesting to note that the Apostle Paul says Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light (KJV) -- that one in particular seemed to be where TOS Iblis was coming from, although as WONKABAR said, the Chariot of the Gods stuff was clearly there...AICN BSG TBs certainly cover a wide variety of material.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Some parts interesting, other parts weak

    by _Maltheus_

    <p>It does seem odd that D'Anna can repeatedly kill herself without the others knowing. There needs to be some explanation of that because I'm having trouble buying it. That is, unless there are other D'Anna's helping her.</p> <p>Granted, I had a few drinks in me, but I couldn't really follow Gaius' train of thought when he was with the hyrbid. He seemed to be cross-referencing her babel with references to some prophecy and it comes across as some literal deus-ex machina when they do that. The prophecies have always been a weakness of this show. I guess I've gotta rewatch that scene. I am digging how he thinks he's a cylon, although I think it's more of a Helsinki Syndrome kind of thing than it is reality.</p> <p>Not sure why they directed it the way they did, but I did think that Kara and Kat were about to kiss in that one scene. It wouldn't have made any sense, but you don't get in that close, all hot and bothered like that, and not make out.</p> <p>I liked how there was finally a focus on food, but it kind of came out of nowhere. And now that they have a little algae (not too hard to grow on one's own BTW), I don't expect to feel like they're a rag-tag fleet again for some time. But given how many civilian ships have now been lost, between this ep and Six's nuke, they ought to be really hurting by now. It doesn't have to take the form of its own episode, but I'd like to have that feel pervade every episode. They should be living like refugees.</p>

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Wonkabar...

    by lynxpro

    Actually, I do not buy the argument that the ancient astronaut "theory" conflicts with Judeo/Christian/Zorastrian/Islamic beliefs. If "Eden" was its own planet or celestial realm, then humanity's expulsion from it to Earth would jive from an extraterrestrial standpoint. In fact, with the "Sons of God marrying the daughters of men", the Ark of the Covenant conducting electricity and serving as a Mr. Microphone, flying shields and spears in the sky, and Ezekiel's "wheel-in-a-wheel" spacecraft jive. I actually dig von Daniken due to his inherent ability to cheese off the archaeology field and rattle their ivory towers once in a while with some crazy idea he comes up with. As for LDS beliefs and Old School BSG, you have "Kobol", and you have the idea that the Lords of Kobol were once no more powerful than humanity but elevated themselves. That's pretty consistent from LDS beliefs about God, from my understanding. Still, no polygamy in the original BSG...but they did have legalized escorting. Tee hee.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 11:30 a.m. CST

    religion is pretty cool in terms of academic study...

    by lynxpro

    Like when you find out that the god "El" (as in israEL)was the main deity of Palestine in ancient times, had a goddess for a wife, lived on Mt. Siani, and the god of Judeo/Christian/Islamic belief was a minor god in that pantheon. Perhaps RDM is referencing this to some extent, although using the Greco-Roman pantheon in their place since they are less controversial and better known. If Yeweh was a minor deity in the ancient religion but then rose to displace belief in the older gods he was a part of, you have a direct analogy between the polytheistic beliefs of the Colonials and the monotheistic beliefs of the Cylons, whose god was part of the Lords of Kobol originally. To my knowledge, in Greco-Roman beliefs, no other minor deity displaced Zeus/Jupiter, although the Romans did like Apollo a lot...since he kinda promised them an eternal empire. Must'a been a gratutitous (sic) promise I guess...

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Aren't these BSG TalkBacks so much better...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...without that prick Jar Jar 4 Prez? I'm so glad he was "shown the door". ;-)

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Did they build ships on New Caprica?

    by Billyeveryteen

    They can't keep losing them. What are they gonna do? Flap their arms?

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Ugly actress ever

    by Underdogthe3rd

    Finally she is dead!!!! BTW really weak episode.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 12:17 p.m. CST

    BS Episode

    by Cobbio

    I mostly agree with others who've said this episode was filler or wasn't very good. As a huge fan of "Battlestar Galactica," it pains me to say this. But though she's creative and funny, Jane Espenson has never been a strong dramatic writer and her weaknesses showed through big time in that episode.<p> I don't want to drag her into the muck, though. She's a cool woman who generally writes at a high level, and I've admired stuff she's written in the past. But "Battlestar" needs writers less geeky and more dramatic who deliver on a deeper level than "Buffy." This is just my opinion, of course, but every "weak" episode I've ever seen of this show was written by a guest writer entering the picture from outside Ron Moore's bubble. Maybe Espenson's next episode (in, like, seven weeks) will be stronger. I hope so.<p> Kat's sudden drug-dealer background was a excellent element to introduce, as I think she fit the type with her stim abuse, but to introduce such a meaty slab of character history and then kill her off in the same episode was a bit weak. The normaly staid pacing was off. It was too much too suddenly, and even with a nice tribute to Kat at the end from Starbuck, it felt a bit hollow.<p> That's just me.<p> Oh, and Jar Jar 4 Prez not posting here is kind of cool.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Jane's best on Buffy

    by oisin5199

    Or at least my faves: Band Candy, Gingerbread, Earshot, Superstar, Pangs, Storyteller, Conversations with Dead People. Of those, Storyteller was a great example of comedy that then hits you in the gut when it suddenly becomes drama with Andrew's character. Superstar was a clever and fun concept and one of the few eps that had an interesting meta/fan fictiony feel to it. Earshot was the one that had to get pulled because of Columbine - and an excellent take on the characters' inner life and of teenage-hood. And Conversations, was as close to a masterpiece episode you can get in terms of character work. And actually one of the scariest and creepiest of all the Buffy eps. So I definitely don't agree that Jane tries too hard to get you to cry - that's more Marti Noxon's territory (well, that and the S&M). Anyway, my point is with just those episodes, she could handle the funny and the drama just fine. The Kat thing was weak, I'll admit, but she nailed Tigh and Baltar, I think. I'm willing to give her another chance with BSG.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Moral Message

    by apersonofinterest

    Perhaps they killed Kat to remind us that drugs are bad...ummmkay.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Count Iblis

    by apersonofinterest

    I hope Baltar is NOT Count Iblis. Those episodes of TOS are by far the most memorable for me and Patrick McNee was the awesome in the role. I would love to see the return of the Count, possibly aided, uknowingly or as part of yet another blowback from one of Baltar's schemes. Iblis would immediately kick Baltar out of the 6/D'Anna triangle and Baltar would be left sitting in the corner scheming, covering his ears to block out 6 and Dianna's cries of ecstasy as Iblis puts it to his Cylon concubines. Baltar, for all of his intelligence, is never the master of his own destiny because he always tries to take the easy, less moral, path to success and it will always fuck him over. If Iblis returns to lead the Cylons, Baltar will be relegated to lackey duty until he figures out a way to fuck over Iblis, in a key battle with Galactica to win favor with Adama and the President. He will have, by then, worn out his welcome with the cylons and Adama will take him back with the fleet with the promise from Baltar to provide information on the Cylons. Rinse. Repeat.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 2:50 p.m. CST

    "no other minor deity displaced Zeus/Jupiter"

    by chrth

    I've seen reference to the idea that someday Zeus would be supplanted, just as he supplanted Cronos/Saturn and Cronos supplanted Oranos/Uranus. I honestly can't recall the source, though.<p> I also want to say that Herakles/Hercules may have been the supplanter, but that doesn't sound right to me (and of the legends regarding him I do remember, I don't recall mention).<p> Now, the child of Metis (Athena) was a source of fear for Zeus that it may supplant him--which is why he swallowed Metis and Athena was released fully formed from his head. But I don't know of any other idea where Athena does supplant Zeus. Let me do a little digging.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 3 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by lynxpro

    Interesting. But the point I was making was that no Greco-Roman god demanded of his/her followers to deny the existence of the other gods of Olympus, and exclusively worship them as the One God, unlike what happened with Yeweh/Jehovah/Allah supplanting El and the other gods of Siani.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 3:37 p.m. CST

    lynxpro: gotcha

    by chrth

    Although if you believe Freud et al., it was a remnant of a cult of Akhenaton led by Moses (a high priest of the cult) that demanded the worship of One God, and assimilated Yahweh into their cult as the One.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 4:37 p.m. CST

    MetalWater: Only problem with that scenario

    by chrth

    It seems too similar to Baltar winning the election from Roslin, and after what happened on New Caprica, all that Roslin needs to do is endorse Adama over Iblis and the people would follow.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Case for Baltar being a Cylon

    by Almost_Human

    If you were sending an undercover agent into the MOST sensitive human structure, their planetary security apparatus, would you take the chance he could be compromised when you can simply reprogram him to completely forget he is a cylon? Gaius has the ability to enter the projection/dream state of the Cylons. Consider this as well--at some point in Cylon evolution they not only became conscious and self-aware but they developed enough emotion to pass for long periods among humans without detection. Even if it is pure simulation, which does not seem to be the case, that would require a dramatic evolutionary leap from either a programming or a bio-mechanical neurological networking stand point. In either case there is a complexity threshold that must be reached. If that is true, then somewhere is the emotional evolutionary equivalent of Cylon Patient Zero. There are five designs left. If the above statement about Cylon evolution is true, it is not unreasonable to think that patient zero may be in that remaining group. If that is Gaius, then his programming could have been modified and he was sent to infiltrate the New Caprica defense network safely to make getting a saboteur like 6 in close for the kill. Espionage often works in a multiphase strategy with cell tactics. With this kind of novation, at first Baltar compared to other Cylons would be more human than cylon and possibly more human than human. There is also the possibility he was malfunctioning, expressly made for his function as spy or was exiled with his memory modified for some other reason. Given these reasonable suppositions and the true statement about projection, logic suggests that Baltar is likely a Cylon and maybe Cylon Patient Zero, the king Cylon in exile or perhaps a high functioning hybrid. Just a thought.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 5:08 p.m. CST

    CORRECTION

    by Almost_Human

    to make IT EASIER getting a saboteur like 6 in close for the kill.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 6:43 p.m. CST

    chrth

    by lynxpro

    Ah! Nice! The worship of the Egyptian universal god named Aton...ushering in the world's first - and short lived - monotheistic religion. Refresh my memory...that was the religion created by the heretic Egyptian King (note I do not use the incorrect term "Pharaoh") that preceeded King Tut. So the theory is that Moses pulled a Puff Daddy and added his "uh uhs" to the old cult and did some Yeweh name dropping in the place of the original playa named Aton. Nice. That and ripping off the Epic of Gilgamesh and calling the bloke Noah instead.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 6:46 p.m. CST

    continuing on that thought...

    by lynxpro

    What next...we going to learn that Samson was a ripoff of Heracles much as the GoBots were to the Transformers? Yet rather a reversal at that since Samson fought the "Sea People" (Philistines) who were most likely Greeks. Then again, I guess that would be similar to how King Arthur was co-opted by the English yet the guy - if he did exist - could have possibly fought against the Saxons whose descendants became the English.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 6:56 p.m. CST

    as for Baltar's visions...

    by lynxpro

    Let us not forget that Gaius Baltar's namesake - Gaius Julius Caesar - suffered from seizures. The ancients generally thought epileptics (sic) to either be touched by the heavens (and blessed) or demonically possessed. The blessed viewpoint comes from the Greco-Roman standpoint, while the demonically possesed viewpoint comes from the Judeo/Christian tradition. Flip that, and you have Gaius blessed by the Cylon God, but viewed by his fellow Colonials as a nutter. Caesar certainly did not lack vision, and he became the dictator of Rome before his untimely death at the hands of the corrupt cowards in the Roman Senate. Baltar became President by appealing to the people and not the entrenched powers. Sounds familiar except Baltar was not brutally murdered (yet) and he was a puppet dictator. If he were to rise to control the Cylons, I wonder how many humans would sign up to live under his rule based upon a permanent peace. That would set up the character for an antichrist allegory, perhaps.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 7 p.m. CST

    Metalwater, nanotechnology could explain it all

    by NoHubris

    Maybe it was nano technology that started it all, making nano enhanced humans into the god-like Lords of Kobol who then produced the original Cylon race (i.e. "all this has happened before and all this will happen again"). Then, like LORD OF THE RING, "History became legend. Legend became myth."

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 7:12 p.m. CST

    More about Moses

    by NoHubris

    One thing that clearly makes Moses an original and not a duplicator is Mosaic law. Mosaic law introduced totally distinct and new elements into the ancient world - things like its medicinal instructions or placing more value on human life than property (issues not addressed by the great Code of Hammurabi). With the Chariot of the Gods thing, TOS Adama was kind of like Moses in that he was leading humanity into a new reality (i.e. Earth).

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 7:21 p.m. CST

    NoHubris

    by lynxpro

    I dunno... I'd say I think more highly of the Code of Hammurabi than the Ten Commandments or Mosaic Law. It predated Moses, for one. Kinda like how I detest people who think the Declaration of Independence is a profound document and Thomas Jefferson a genius yet know nothing about Magna Carta which predates Jefferson by 500+ years. Jefferson is the 18th Century's Puff Daddy in my book.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 7:23 p.m. CST

    or...

    by lynxpro

    ...how the English Bill of Rights predates our own Bill of Rights (which was only included in the Constitution in order to keep the masses from rebelling), or how George Washington didn't measure up to Oliver Cromwell's military greatness. Bah...returning soapbox.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 7:34 p.m. CST

    Lynxpro, my remarks weren't about which came first...

    by NoHubris

    ...I was simply stating that the Law of Moses had things that the Code of Hammurabi did not. For example, in the Code Of Hammurabi you could be killed for stealing property, while in the law of Moses the thief had to restore fourfold, putting human life ahead of property and things (unique among ancient law codes). It was simply an "academic" comparison. But of course the Code of Hammurabi came first.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 8:20 p.m. CST

    "Gaius Baltar's namesake"

    by chrth

    Augustus and Caligula were also Gaius's.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 8:31 p.m. CST

    MetalWater: How do you know he hasn't?

    by chrth

    He was her "special advisor" for awhile there.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 11:11 p.m. CST

    MetalWater

    by lynxpro

    Name the Native American tribe that believes that. They aren't a monolithic institution you know...well, they might have been had the War of 1812 went the other way... I'd also say that the Constitution is based more upon the "unwritten" British constitution more so than any assertion that the Iroquois Confederacy influenced its creation. You know, they didn't hold the natives in high regard at the time...I mean, it wasn't many years after the "enlightened" Jefferson had referred to them as savages in the Declaration of Independence...

  • Dec. 12, 2006, 4:26 a.m. CST

    Metalwater

    by WONKABAR

    What do you know about the shape-shifting-reptilians?

  • Dec. 12, 2006, 7:17 a.m. CST

    MetalWater...

    by Lemming

    The American Constitution is based on the Magna Carta. Nothing to do with Native Americans.

  • Dec. 12, 2006, 7:59 a.m. CST

    The American Constitution is based on several things

    by chrth

    Guys, come on, this isn't 4th grade history class. It's ok for there to be multiple sources and threads of thought incorporated in a historical document. And yes, there is native american influence in the constitution, as well as English (Magna Carta, as noted) and French (the writings of Montesqieu).

  • Dec. 12, 2006, 1:02 p.m. CST

    Magna Carta is part of the British constitution...

    by lynxpro

    Just so you know...

  • Dec. 12, 2006, 1:30 p.m. CST

    According to Wiki, a lot of the Magna Carta was

    by chrth

    "removed" from the British Constitution in 1828. Not that the British Constitution is a formalized document or anything.

  • Dec. 12, 2006, 3:54 p.m. CST

    MetalWater, you do realize no one is reading your posts

    by chrth

    ...right?

  • Dec. 13, 2006, 11:46 a.m. CST

    metalwater -like I said, batshit insane

    by oisin5199

    First of all, "most of our founding fathers were Freemasons" isn't true, only a few of them were, Washington being the most conspicuous. Secondly, even though their trappings (rites, symbols) are occult, Freemasonry has little to do with mysticism or 'visions.' I stopped reading after that, because you tend to babble like a straitjacketed freak.

  • Dec. 14, 2006, 9:07 p.m. CST

    Are Tricia Helfer and Grace Park still in this show?

    by performingmonkey

    Jesus H Christ on a crutch stroking a rabbit in a hutch, give them some frakking screentime, godsdamnit!! After all this build up I think Baltar is going to turn out to be simply human, and when he discovers that he will royally screw the Cylons over for his own benefit by pretending to be the Cylon God or something. Frak only knows.