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Sam Raimi making the Street & Smith Pulp Universe Collide with DOC SAVAGE, THE SHADOW, NICK CARTER and more?

Hey folks, Harry here... Over at IGN - Stax is running a story about how Sam Raimi has allegedly committed to direct a project that would unite the classic Street & Smith Publications characters - like Doc Savage, The Avenger, The Shadow and possibly the rest of their heroes gallery and rogues gallery into the mother of all pulp projects. You can read their story at the link above. Well. I'm not going to say the story is wrong, as I haven't spoken directly with Sam Raimi - though I do have a call into his office. But for the last year I've been tracking Raimi's development of Street and Smith Publications. You see. Sam's biggest passion from their catalogue is THE SHADOW. Prior to Alec Baldwin getting a nose in on the gig, Raimi was attempting to get the property at Universal - with the Coen Brothers set to write it up for him to direct. That fell through - and he made DARKMAN as a reaction. It was around this same time that he lost out on BATMAN. However, Marty Bregman thought the HIGHLANDER guy was the better route to go. Eh... 20/20 is a bitch. In the last year or so - I've heard that Raimi has been taking meetings with various directors to discuss a possible DOC SAVAGE film. But closer to home, I've heard that Raimi had found a writer for his THE SHADOW movie, but that no commitments were in hand, as of yet. As for the whole Street and Smith character library - It's possible that Raimi just optioned them all with that big SPIDER-MAN money and in reality was planning this project that IGN has a scoop on. HOWEVER - this is all rumor at this point. Like I said. I know for a fact that THE SHADOW and DOC SAVAGE are separate projects that were being developed as separate projects at least 4 months ago. I'll continue to knock on Raimi's door to get to the truth, but at this point the only one that knows for sure, is his Shadow...

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  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:05 p.m. CST


    by Turd Furgeson


  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:07 p.m. CST

    A Coen brother Shadow is what the world needs now.

    by vivavitalogy


  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:07 p.m. CST


    by torontoxic Hannibal Rising.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:09 p.m. CST


    by Turd Furgeson

    Batman might have actually been good if he got it.... The Shadow would surely have been better. Here's to hoping that SP3 is better than the first 2. Cheers. PS, Timothy Olyphant for the Shadow!

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:15 p.m. CST

    I think V for Vendetta topped anything

    by paralyser-pro

    that can be done with these characters. It had a pulp look while offering Orwellian intrigue and contemporary relevance. If Raimi wants to do something really cool and cutting edge, he should do a live-action Robotech trilogy!

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:19 p.m. CST

    Dear Sam...

    by Doc Savage

    Sam, I give you full permission to make my movie. Can't wait to see it. Sincerely, the Man of Bronze

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:21 p.m. CST

    DARKMAN owed much to -

    by RenoNevada2000

    - Richard Benson, THE AVENGER! I would love to see a resurgence in interest of all these great pulp characters. And Raimi is just the visualist to do them justice.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:37 p.m. CST

    raimis wasted on comic book movies

    by misnomer

    as much as I love the spidey movies, I think raimi should branch out again. (after doing two more spideys of course) Simple plan was a great unique bit of filmmaking

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Darkman = best comic book movie yet

    by droog

    Despite not actually being based on a comic book. Raimi captured the tone and visual aesthetic of comics better than anyone has, before or since that movie. Yes, including Spider-Man. Though Ang Lee gets points for trying, at least from a purely visual standpoint.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 8:58 p.m. CST

    The Shadow artist

    by cyberskunk

    I really like Gary Gianni's art for The Shadow

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 9:06 p.m. CST


    by vivavitalogy

    WHAAAAAAAAA?!?!!!!????!? I've said my fair share of stupid things but the dribble that you clickety clacked onto this talkback was just plain ignorant. Have you even seen a Coen brother movie?

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 9:30 p.m. CST

    my face just melted off...

    by zombieslayer

    this has me happy in the pants.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Am I the only one who liked the Baldwin's 'Shadow'?

    by Negator76

    Seriously, I thought it was a good movie. It nailed the look of the character, Baldwin was charming as the lead, and the script was clever and often wickedly funny. Maybe it was TOO funny for some fan's tastes, but that movie had more (intentional) laughs than most comedies I've seen in the last decade. Of course, a Cohen-written, Raimi-directed 'Shadow' film would kick unholy, rueful ass. Now if only we could get somebody with visual panache and good casting instincts to restart the 'Fantastic Four' franchise. Sigh.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 9:36 p.m. CST

    A Coen/Raimi Shadow...

    by blacklodgebob

    Would be my Geek manifest destiny. Everything that the geek in my loves the most wrapped into one. If this ever happens, I would explode. And you know Negator, I wouldn't say the Baldwin shadow was "good", but I frickin' loved it..."Where did you get that tie?"

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 9:39 p.m. CST

    gets my geekjones going...

    by bottleimp

    I love all those old pulp characters-- to see them in a movie directed by Raimi (though this is probably just another internet rumor) would be a treat. By the way, fans of the Shadow, Doc Savage et al should check out early issues of the comic book "Planetary" for a glimpse of what this proposed movie might feel like.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Baldwin's Shadow

    by Strshp2rpr

    I enjoyed that version of The Shadow. Granted, i was like 10, but I thought it was a really great Indiana Jones meets Batman kind of flick. Then I watched it like 6 months ago, followed by teh Billy Zane "The Phantom" and realized both movies were criminally underrated. They had great wit, fantastic adventure and exciting well done action set pieces, and really incredible production design. Both leads held their own very well. Sure they are a bit cheesy, but they are hella fun. I would love to see Raimi take a crack at these suckers though...that would just rock my cock off.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 9:52 p.m. CST


    by Bloo

    man...this would be an awesome project for Rami/Coen's...with of course The Bruce...but not as the Shadow, that's one of the main problems I had with Baldwin's Shadow, Lamont Cranstan/Kent Allard is supposed to be a "wealthy young man about town" Baldwin was like what 40(I jest)

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:07 p.m. CST

    Frank Darabont's script for DOC SAVAGE

    by godoffireinhell

    was awesome. It was written with Arnold Schwarzenegger in mind, though.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:19 p.m. CST



    I'm feeling pretty damn good tonight... ANyone want a glass of milk?

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Both The Shadow and The Phantom ARE underrated

    by ckane123

    Yes, there are HUGE problems with both movies (the "transformation" of Lamont Cranston into the Shadow, the casting of Billy Zane, the pacing of The Phantom) but both are good clean fun movies. And The Phantom has Patrick McGoohan, which for me adds +10 Cool Points to any flick. But I would not mind seeing new versions of either/both.<p>Had a Shadow poster on my wall for four years in hugh school...

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:23 p.m. CST

    Make that HIGH School

    by ckane123

    Damn talkback form, with no preview function... Harry, it's the 21st Century! Upgrade!

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Darabont SAVAGE script...

    by ckane123

    Did Lucas dismiss that one casually, too? /I KEED, I KEED.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:33 p.m. CST

    The Phantom!

    by onefatman

    sucked big hairy ones.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:33 p.m. CST

    Coen Bros. on any period superhero film is

    by superninja

    a good idea.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Baldwin's Shadow was good, it was the paint-by-numbers

    by superninja

    direction that sucked.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Warren Beatty was the worst part of Dick Tracy.

    by superninja

    That's for sure.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 11:01 p.m. CST

    JRKerr, that's a good point. It's the same with

    by superninja

    the Spectre or the Phantom Stranger where they are mysterious and deliver venegance and part of the charm is they remain distant.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Who Knows What Evil Lurks In The Hearts Of Men?

    by Barron34

    Sam Raimi knows. I would love to see his version of these characters on film. Admittedly, I am a much bigger fan of Doc Savage than the Shadow, though. I got hooked on Doc Savage paperbacks as a kid. Loved the stuff. That said, I do hope that Sam does not combine all these characters into one big movie. These properties all deserve their own films. Doc Savage has a very extensive group of supporting characters, and many books worth of stories and villians from which to choose. The property could make a great film franchise just on it's own. Likewise with the Shadow and the other pulp heroes on the list. Anyway, I hope it is true that Raimi has the rights. Better that a fan and a filmmaker has control of the properties than a suit. Even if Sam doesn't direct all the properties himself, he could reserve the Shadow and/or Doc Savage for himself and farm out the other properties to different directors, acting as Exec Producer. In any case, this is good news for Pulp Hero fans such as myself.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Comics/fantasy are a good place for Raimi

    by S-Mart shopper

    but I'm sure there are projects not in the genre that he could breathe life into. As long as my man Bruce & the 73 Olds get their cameos it's all good.

  • Dec. 6, 2006, 11:47 p.m. CST

    Michael Rossenbaum for Phantom

    by Get_Me_An_18-Man_Fire_Team_In_12_Hours

    Don't hate ^_^

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:09 a.m. CST

    I wants me some DOC SAVAGE

    by MasterShake

    Seriously, discovered the Doc Savage books in high school, loved the hell out of them. The only "actor" I can see pulling off Doc Savage, Man Of Bronze, is The Rock. I can picture him wearing a shiney bronze skull-cap. He would have to be a ton better than Ron "Tarzan" Ely in the role.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:15 a.m. CST

    Baldwin's Shadow was pulp purity.

    by Doctor_Sin

    Damned cool with Jonathan Winters undergoing the supermysticalhypnosuggestion during that restaurant scene.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:17 a.m. CST

    really? Would people pay to see these?

    by Freefinger

    I don't know, but I think these movies are like the - "Ok, the studios have done and signed every fu**ing comic book characters out there, what's left for us to do? Doc Strange? He's what? A "bronze" guy? The Shadow? Haven't they killed any good chance it once had back in the 90's with the Bladwin guy who's not in jail right now? Nick Carter? The Backstreet kid? WTF!!!!! Well.. If that's what's left.. fu** it, sign them!" - I dunno, they weren't even great sellers in the comic book craze back in the early 90's, why would you consider making these out on the big screen and take a huge chance like that? The fact that they were still up to buy options to is probably a good indicator of why with every other Superhero optioned out by all the Studios right now, these where like the Vanilla Ice of the comic book industry, never quite fit in there, kinda tried to be good but just never was... They did find a audience, but I don't think they found one that would be big enough to sell enough tickets to make an honorable profit. Hell, Supe's barely made past the production cost who knows if the movie will ever actually go past the 500 million mark (that was set before the movie came out, and they tought it woudl do this kind of numbers within a couple of months.. yeah .. Singer Directs... riight... nice expectations on a shitty fu**ing movie...) I think to continue making anykind of money with the whole Superhero gig, they need to get the characters who sell/sold a lot, and get good storylines to go along with the actual stories played out in the comics (Singer, this is for you: STOP DOING REASERCH ON THE WEB TRY BUYING THE ACTUAL COMICS AND STAY TRUE TO THE CHARACTERS!!). Even if Raimi stays along those lines, I don't think the characters have enough fans out there to turn a good profit for the movie standards.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:20 a.m. CST

    I would rather he just did...

    by Seph_J

    ... Spider-man 4. And kept making Spider-man films until the end of time.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:32 a.m. CST

    A big Street & Smith team up project...

    by Sledge Hammer

    Isn't that basically just Planetary under a different name? Still, I'd be down with it, or for any combination of the above that lands us well crafted versions of the likes of The Shadow and Doc Savage.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Fuck Micheal Bay? FUCK SINGER TOO!

    by Freefinger

    God I hate Superman Returns... I'd download the damn thing just to see how many things Singer just plain fucked up! - No I WOULD NOT BUY IT! I don't encourage this kind of behavior! His version of Superman gives torrents a reason to live, "You want to see it on a big screen? Fu** that! Not worth it, find it on the net and download it, that way you won't feel like you got fu**ed by Singer and the WB Studios out of your hard earned money!" - ... Thinking 'bout it made me think that Doc Strange, The Shadow and Nick Carter would be great ideas... Hell What id they beat Superman's numbers? That would be so awesome! See the Studio Heads at WB go "SINGER! WTF! WE GOT BEATEN BY A MOVIE 'BOUT THAT BACKSTREET KID FIGHTING A BRONZE DUDE IN A SHADOW! YOU FU**!"

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:43 a.m. CST

    I thought Superman Returns completely rocked

    by Cruel_Kingdom

    Weird how many people hate it now...

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:43 a.m. CST

    A pulp team-up? Reminds me of Planetary . . .

    by jocutus

    and Doc Brass (a stand-in for Doc Savage) and his super team. The team included analogues for the Shadow, Tarzan, Fu Manchu, etc. Can't remember who they are all supposed to be. Anyway, most of them died protecting our world from an evil version of the Justice League in a secret battle under the Adirondacks in 1945. Now that would be a movie worth seeing. As a side note, I liked the Baldwin Shadow, and Penelope Ann Miller was good as Margot. But my fondest memory of that movie was a behind the scenes interview of Winters and Baldwin where Winters claimed that HE was originally asked to play the part of the Shadow.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:10 a.m. CST

    I think Sam Rami films mostly suck

    by Droogie Alex

    They're overly cartoon-ey, the acting is way too broad, distracting cameos (enough with throwing Stan Lee a bone in every superhero film) and poor pacing, and ploting. "Let's see, I'll create a mini Sun in my basement! That'll show the world!"

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:22 a.m. CST

    Cruel_Kingdom - SR ROCKED???

    by Freefinger

    WTF...??? Unless you only looked at the effects? They got that right for at least 80% of the movie, but the rest? Did not stay true to the character, fu**ing idiot way of giving Luthor money - Like the wealthy family didn't have ties with Hard ass Lawyers to take on the case that the old fart signed the papers over while all alone with no witness on her last fu**ing breath.. The fact that Supe's was to "upset" to say goodbye to Lois before he left for the planet he knows exploded in the first place, but a picture of space said to him that it might still be out there (So let's also throw out science and the fact that it takes millions of years for a planet that fu**ing far away to even show up on our telescopes, that Supe's would go "OH! It might still be there? Really?")The cannibal dog... The non speaking part of Kal Penn... The fact that Lois is the worst mother in the fu**ing world, taking her kid in dangerous fu**ing situations, being late picking the kid up... Supe'S going peeping tom... Redoing the 15 minutes of Lois and Supe's flying from the first movie (Hommage my ass, I called it the 15 minutes of wasted fu**ing film) The fact that Luthor steals a piece of Kryptonite from a museum by switching off the power and having no fucking resistance at all getting his guys in the back to turn the power off - fuck! (WTF, no back up generators? no Security? Singer is way too fucking stupid to think about anything that made any sense at all..)... The crazy fucking car going out of control to make Supe's look away from the museum yet does not even scratch one person in a mob of people walking on the street (Try that in NY, you'll be averaging a better Hitting AVG than Barry Bonds on triple dose of steroids)... He can lift a fucking continent full of kryptonite off into space, yet he should crumble like a little dog just by being close to the stuff (oh, and the fact that he's doing this with a piece of it stuck in his mid-section didn't help me even come close to "liking" the film) yet he as trouble stopping a plane from crashing down (Hell why not just go to the underbelly and make the rotation stop, then slowly bring the fucker back to land it safely? - No he decides that a wing is do fucking sturdy that it should stop the rotation without a glitch?)... He stops an armed robbery but doesn't care about the bouncing bullets flying off of him? (If you really need to include a shitty scene like that, at least make it so that you show the superspeed by making him catch the bullets while they fly off of him)... Clark Kent.. Is he even in this picture? I see him in a bar, I see him in the office doing absolutely nothing but talk to Jimmy, other than that they should have at least made him fart - you know .. make him do something... The fact that Lois got a kid from sleeping with him in the 2nd flick yet they showed her loosing the memory - How the fu** does she even know how she got pregnant in the first place? She should have reacted to the whole scene were the kid kills the guy with a piano - "WTF! Superman must've rapped me? I don't remember?!?! WHERE'S MY LAWYER!"... Supe's lands on the Fake Krytpo land, and he's so weak he gets his butt kicked by a couple of guys... Yet.. Brings the continent up in space (Also see comments at the top concerning this issue)... Now I'm not even half way done with the shitty movie and already I'm taking half the talkback... Are the effects good? Yes!, Did I enjoy the only good 15 minutes of him flying around Metropolis trying to fix everything the shake did? To some extent, sure... Was this movie worth 10$ and 2hrs of my time? FUCK NO! Singer screwed the whole thing up! I was hoping to buy this movie once it hit the DVD shelves so my kids could have the complete collection (I would've burnt the III and IV movie, but now I think they were fucking masterpieces compared to this one!) but I won't, because everything that Superman stood for for so many years in the comic books are gone. Singer fuckked it up by trying to have his way with it, and I think he delivered the worst movie ever of the whole Heroe Genre, just because he destroyed the character. Do the effects make a movie. No... See Star Wars, episode 1 - Jar Jar looks amazingly alive, yet they should've shot him in the head in the first minute of the movie... Does Supe's make me want to Shoot the character in the head with a kryptonian bullet? yes... yes it does... They hsould do like the Hulk... Trash this movie, go back to the writting block and start over... Free for all - Freefinger

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:07 a.m. CST

    I liked Baldwin and Superman Returns Mr. Freefinger

    by avs28785

    Saw the shadow when i was a kid with my grandfather. He enjoyed it brought back the good old days and i enjoyed it being a boy driven by superheroes. I want to see were Raimi takes it but Raimi is a little too cartoonish in my opinion. You look at the spiderman films and then look at Batman Begins and its pretty fucking awesome the difference between the direction of acting (and acting capabilites for that matter)... and i would even take Katie Holmes over Kirsten Dunst. Nolan would be great with the movie. But i just want him sticking to Batman. And being a HUGE Superman fan i think the Singer film was awesome. Routh was great. NO DISRESPECT but i cant watch the Reeves movie without thinking i like Routh more. It lacked action i will give you that freefinger but fucking come on, would you have rather it went to burton, ratner, or mcg. We are lucky with what we got. It was a good restart. Like Xmen: the first was good, but he really hit it right with the second. And singer borrowed from the donner films (donner and a half). Use your fucking imagination to fill in the rest. Do you need everything spelt out for you? And anyone can pick apart any movie. Maybe supes was just caught up in the moment trying to rescue the fucking plane he wasn't really thinking clearly, after all it was his first outing in five years. And to the million of lightyears away comment. Take into consideration that works both ways which means the kryptonite wouldn't have gotten to earth at the same time a alien craft would. and if you read a few kal penn interviews his character made the whole story up to get superman off the planet (singer cut it cuz he thought we could use our imaginations). its a fucking comic book science doesn't apply. oh wait bulletts ricocheting off his chest...Thats Superman. That was one of the iconic images i was waiting for in the movie. And if you want to see people being run over go fucking watch Ronin, French Connection, Bourne Supremacy.... Oh wait a second the best chase scenes in film dont have people being run over... nevermind then. Well its late for me sorry for the rambling and the craziness... I got to get up in two hours for work so im a little tired. No disrespect to you Freefinger. Im sure we have alot in common just not Superman Returns. To each is own. Oh wait i dont think Superman Returns is too kid friendly... there are some slow parts they just might get sick of... i know my little sister did... and batman begins for that matter but thank God they aren't trying to appeal to the children as much to the adults.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:11 a.m. CST

    Mr Raimi marries Drago and punches out Bridget Neilson

    by Mike_D

    Haha, just had to say it.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Forgot The Phantom

    by avs28785

    I enjoyed the Phantom also. Once again saw it with my grandfather(who use to listen to it on the radio when he was a teenager) I had a huge crush on Kristy Swanson because of that movie.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:13 a.m. CST

    "The Weed Of Crime....

    by Kenny8

    ..bears bitter fruit." What a great line! Mulchay's Shadow was quite good IMO. Batman Begins (a much better film) sure reminded me in the opening sequences of The Shadow film

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:34 a.m. CST

    Sam Raimi

    by Franklin T Marmoset

    I'm very much looking forward to what Mr Raimi does next. I've enjoyed the Spider-Man films a great deal, but I'd like to see him move on to something different. Come on, Sam Raimi, enough with these good, fun, enjoyable Spider-Man films! People are waiting to put nipples on the spider suit and give him some kind of neon covered spider plane and a teenaged sidekick named Bug-Boy. Will Ferrell as Kraven the hunter! Cameron Diaz as Black Cat! Fiddy Cent as Electro! Stone Cold Steve Austin as Rhino! All in one film!!

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 3:11 a.m. CST

    I liked The Shadow, too!

    by Zardoz

    I saw it in a packed theater in SF, (Kabuki8, theater #1, with the ORIGINAL THX logo playing for the first time!) and everyone at that show liked it, as well. (the audience even applauded at the end!) I watch it whenever I see it on cable, but haven't added it to my collection yet. (I've been meaning to, though!) I didn't like The Phantom, though. Very boring, as far as I am concerned. (but early CZJ is nice to look at, anytime!) I'd love to see Raimi's take on the whole gang though, especially if it's a LOEG-style actioner. (and yes, Planetary's homage to the characters is great, too!) And Spidey 3 looks freakin' SWEET! (and I was totally against using Venom so soon, but it looks like it works...fingers crossed!)

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 3:14 a.m. CST

    Perfect material for Raimi

    by KillaKane

    Dug the 70's Doc Savage movie with Ron Ely. Raimi's humour and visual flair are perfectly suited to the pulp milieu. Will this now remove him from the frame as a mooted Hobbit director?

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 5:11 a.m. CST

    Turn David Lynch loose on The Shadow.

    by Uncle Stan

    And get Adrian Brody to play him. He already has the nose.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 5:16 a.m. CST

    The 1994 Phantom Movie:

    by DerLanghaarige

    It's not bad, but it feels like it was once much longer (around 2 1/2 hours or so)and then the studio decided to cut it down to Popcorn-length. Does anybody knows something about that?

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 5:17 a.m. CST


    by DerLanghaarige

    Sorry for that! I was talking about THE SHADOW!!!

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 6:03 a.m. CST

    Planetary Movie

    by DOGSOUP

    Charlize Theron as Jakita Wagner, Ryan Reynolds as The Drummer, and Terrence Stamp as Elijah Snow.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 6:19 a.m. CST


    by knightrider


  • Dec. 7, 2006, 6:50 a.m. CST

    I Always Loved the Andy Helfer Shadow Comics...

    by tonagan

    From the late 80's. I know, everyone else hated them, but I thought they were hysterical, and I always hated how they never finished up the final story arc. I'm sure you can pick 'em up really cheap.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 6:55 a.m. CST


    by Freefinger

    I'm not saying the Shadow royaly sucked ass... I'm wondering if they do it, will it have the fan backing it needs? I'm not critisizing Baldwin's performance either (I think he did it justice), I'm still saying that they didn't get people in the first time around, why would they get it the second time around? Because it's directed by Raimi? I don't know, I like what he did for Spidey and think HE's the kind of director that makes good Superhero movies (the only aspect I don't like is that they killed off both vilains for both movies - Yes green goblin, but why do it to Doc Oc? - Anyway the rest of the movie was great) I even think that the whole spidey getting organic webshooters work because it doesn't play with the characters issues. You saying SR returns was great because we had to use our imagination to fill out the rest is a "WTF?!?!?!" to me. I have enough imagination but what he gave us at the time the movie was out was poorly done. He concentrated is efforts on the look of the movie instead of characters and how they are. I guess you didn't watch the movie you were way too impressed at looking at the wonderful tricks and magic that they did to make Superman fly.. wow... That makes it all! Fuck the script, fuck the story! I also did not criticize Routh, I blame the Director and the 15 yr old Double mint twins for the shitty storyline and no fu**ing soul in this movie. It will take more than the freaking hommage shots he did every 20 minutes in the movie to make this thing work (unless you get easily impressed by all the wonderful effects). He screwed Superman up, if you read what I wrote you would see that I don't blame the actors, I blame the writers (because the story is so shitty the way they messed up every fabric of Superman and the rest of them) and the Director. The whole Kal Penn thing just came out a couple of weeks ago, so don't throw that in there, he didn't put it on screen because it was just another bad idea (which impressed me 'cause after seeing the rest of the movie it would've been the only thing in there that could explain something WHEN THE MOVIE CAME OUT). Reeves was great at it, but the third and fourth movies were really bad, doesn't mean Reeves didn't know what he was doing, again with bad Directors and how they can screw it up. Hell at least they got his character right in those two pics, they didn't have him peeping in on Lois and other people... Burton, probably, no, would've done a whole shitty movie I can say I agree with that, McG - Don't know I haven't had the time to read the script/storyline he approved yet. All I know is that Singer messed it up. the whole costume thing, bah.. they changed it enough to piss off people, but it didn't make a difference on the storyline so who cares, it's not so bad that it screwed it up, so I can roll with some changes, but kick everything the Superman idol that has been built over the 50 + years he existed before the movie is just plain fu**ed up. The Double Mint twins and Singer should've not been given the green light with that storyline. Singer never even once developped a single character in this movie, not one - Oh Sorry he did, Richard White - The only character I tought to myself "Now there's a great guy, his wife his in love with this other guy and he drives her right into his arms because he's a great guy.." the rest of them, god.. Perry is so much on prozac that he lost his temper and presence on screen, Jimmy his so cartoonish that it just makes you think that Singer has tapped every episodes he could from the 50's, I was waiting for a big ballon with a "POW!" inside everytime he was on screen (again good choice for the actor, bad writing and directing). The comment about you waiting for the comic icon you had been wating for is probably a sign that you will peep on your next door neighbors, a sign that you don't have good moral fibers and probably are one of the pricks that don't let people in when driving around, this comic icon was not the comic icon that has been done for the past 50+ years. Unless you read "Serial-Rape-Killer" comics mind you. Sorry man but I hope we don't have much in common after all... And the kid thing, I am thankfull that they aren't going for the kids (Batman's Schumacker really screwed it up that time around with the whole Neon-Gang members... wow... that was bad too...) But I wasn't saying that I would show this movie to them when they were 5 years old... God... I said I would've bought it to show it to them one of these days... I guess you are working a little too hard... 'cause you licking the rest of this movie shows you don,t care about what the character stood for before the movie.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 7:09 a.m. CST

    How embarrassing I believe I've had a geekgasm

    by Captain Sensible

    I wondered what his next project would be after Spiderman and this is like the home run from the Natural. Couldn't be better.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 7:47 a.m. CST

    cool story

    by biscuit turner

    Pulp fans should check out Paul Malmont's novel "The Chinatown Death Cloud Peril." Moriarity reviewed it not long ago here -

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 7:56 a.m. CST

    I imagine Raimi can have any franchise he wants now

    by Lance Rock

    How about Evil Dead 4? Huh?

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 8:10 a.m. CST

    Raimi... I think do to...

    by Freefinger

    .. that he can have any franchise he wants since his Spidey movies made so much profits at the box office... he stayed trues to 90% of the stories, or made a few changes so it would fit inside the movie. Nothing drastic, so I think creators are more trusting of his kind of treatment for the characters they have worked on for so long...

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 8:13 a.m. CST

    No SPIDER plans?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Can't skip The Spider pulp. It would be nice to have a Doc Savage decently done. And Fucking Wild Cards. Better yet both as TV series. Yjrow Discworld in as well.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 8:26 a.m. CST

    The Shadow

    by Almost_Human

    Agreed it is quite underrated. I thought Baldwin did an above average job, but future casting aside and after seeing Spider-Man, I have no doubt Lamont Cranston and Margo Lane are in good hands with Sam Raimi. I am a huge fan of The Shadow going back to the OTR plays. You will get at least one ticket purchase.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 8:35 a.m. CST

    Doc fan from way back

    by Bug Doc

    First, I am a big Doc Savage fan beginning with my grandfather way back in 1969. In 1969, I went to visit him with my family and on the second day he asked my if I knew who Doc Savage was? Of course, I said no and he proceeded to show me his collection of pulp magazines and paperbacks. I remember, reading one of the pulps a bit but then I picked up a Bantam paperback and I was gone for the day. <p> My grandfather became a fan after meeting Mr. Dent in Missouri and fishing with him a couple of times. My grandfather was an industrial chemist who loved to fish. When they met, Mr. Dent spoke a bit about chemistry and they both apparently hit it off.<p> After that, my grandfather became a fan. He bagan collecting some of the pulps and liked the speed of the stories and the moral center Savage had. Plus, he thought the stories made science fun and interesting (even if it was mostly science-fiction)<p> Well, here I am much older, and not too much wiser. I have ALL of the paperbacks (many in multiple copies unread) and some stuff from the 1975 movie (posters, lobby cards, and such). I hope my son will like him as much as I did but I doubt it. I stopped actively collecting after I got all the books but I plan to sit down and read them all one more time in the future. It will probably have to wait until retirement. Who knows? <p>Cool stuff if they make a film, but I don't think it will hold up well in today's society without a great deal of...."updating" which will suck. I guess we will see.<p> I liked the Shadow movie (have it on tape) and like the Phantom movie too (Several DVD copies, one signed by Zane). The Doc Movie.....well, it was OK when I was 15 but it kind of sucked. I still own it and will watch it along with the others with my son. I like that they attempted to make all of these movies and while not perfect, they are all mostly well done and kind of fun to watch on a rainy Saturday afternoon. <p>By the way, I was in Iraq in 03 and my whole crew watched the Phantom movie one evening (I was the only one that saw it in the group....ever). To my suprise many of my soldiers like liked it and we watched it a few more times during our tour. Most of my folks didn't even know who the Phantom was.....really kind of sad.<p>

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Add my name to those who liked the Shadow

    by holidill

    The Shadow is still one of my favorites. I thought Alec Baldwin was great as Lamont Cranston and John Lone as Shiwan Khan, It also has Ian McKellen, Jonthan Winters, Tim Curry, and Penelope Ann Miller and they were all good. I particularly liked how the main bad guy does not die at the end. Up to that point it seemed all the comic book movies out had the main villain die. It was fun as well.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 9:19 a.m. CST


    by RenoNevada2000

    THE SPIDER wasn't Street and Smith. It was published by Popular Publications, IIRC

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 9:25 a.m. CST

    The old Doc Savage film-

    by RenoNevada2000

    The casting of Doc's aides was perfect. Unfortunately, George Pal wanted a campy tone and that just killed the flick.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Raimi SHOULD stick with the superhero/fantasy genre.

    by JDanielP

    Because he's damn good at it!

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 9:47 a.m. CST

    The Shadow Knows...really...I asked him once

    by KingKirby

    I had a blast with "The Shadow". I mean, c'mon fellow geeks, just the mere thought of Penelope Ann Miller in her satin nightgown gets me going! I'm disappointed that there is STILL no widescreen version available on DVD. Speaking of the DVD, my preferred way to watch it is to completely turn off the color on my TV and make it the grandest black-and-white pulp adventure movie ever! Hey, holidill, good point about the non-death of Shiwan Khan at the end...who decided that comic book villains have to die? The Joker, The Penquin, Two Face, The Green Goblin (well, that one is more grounded in the actual books), and Dr. Octopus...ALL DEAD! Heck, even Syndrome got snuffed in "The Incredibles"!

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 10:05 a.m. CST


    by JustinSane

    I'm super-excited, but all of those characters really need their own franchises - especially my hero, The Shadow. I too like the flawed 1994 version (I've bitched about the Region 1 full frame for years - region 2 gets widescreen dammit), but I'm glad Raimi may finally get the chance to tackle ol' Shaddy.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 10:17 a.m. CST


    by SPECT

    Who cares about these characters. These movies will likely go straight to video. I'm just surprised people actually admit to being fans of these forgotten heroes. People, move out of your parent's basement!!

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Shadow - books vs. radio

    by cyberskunk

    If another movie with The Shadow is made, I wonder if the character will be based more on the radio version or on the books, as there was outright supernatural stuff in the radio with mind reading and mind-clouding, but the books, from the ones I've read, did a balancing act that made the character's powers mysterious but not necessarily spiritual. The way passages were written, he could've simply been doing a good job of concealment.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 10:42 a.m. CST

    "Perpetual Ingenue Penelope Ann Miller"

    by tonagan

    I remember that a critic referred to her as such, and it just stuck with me, although I think the title has since been handed down to Perpetual Ingenue Gretchen Mol.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 11:04 a.m. CST

    The Man of Bronze

    by toadkillerdog

    I too am a long time Doc Savage fan - I got hooked back in mid seventies with the Marvel magazine versions. Which I still have and love. I Then discovered the books, and that was that. I remember vividly the sections in the back of the magazine touting the new movie with Ron Ely. I recall waiting impatiently for it to arrive at my local movie theater, and then being crushed that it never made it. It wasnot untuil the early eighties that I finally saw it. It was campy and corny, but I still enjoyed it. It evoked some good childood memories. I read above hoe the Rock might be a good casting choice - at first I said WTF? But, the more I think on it, the better I like it. Vin Diesel might make a good choice as well. I liked the Shadow with ol Alec, and Billy Z did a fair job with Phantom. I do question whether a big budget movie version of the Shadow can succeed - especially with no true built in audience that can support it.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:02 p.m. CST

    The Phantom Cut

    by The Ghost Who Walks

    To whoever suggested above that The Phantom was edited from a longer, character based movie to a popcorn flick: You're right. Several scenes developing the relationship between Billy Zane and Kristy Swanson were deleted, and some scenes which provided more backstory to the character and his status as an "immortal jungle legend". Some of them are seen on the 1996 Phantom collector's cards. It annoys me they were delteted. I would guess at least 20 minutes of the film were taken away. Hey guys, check out the new Phantom comics from Moonstone Books, they're really awesome.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Here's yer DOC

    by Cnemi

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:05 p.m. CST


    by vivavitalogy

    The Shadow is atonement personified!

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Why not Vin or the Rock?

    by toadkillerdog

    Leaving aside the issue of time period and race - which I will address later, Vinny and Dwayne are both physically and tempermentally suited for the role. Yes, we can quibble about the height - but see Wolverine casting (in reverse of course). Doc is not the most loquacious of dudes, his aides do most of the talking, but Rock and Vin have proved themselves capable of handling dialogue (well Rock has and Vinny is doing better) and the Rock is actaully a decent actor. As for race, well what race is Vin? No, race is not an issue if the movie is set in the present - which admittedly would be a blow to the Doc Savage fan base. Now, if it is set in the 1930's, then that is a different ballgame. I would agree that the Rock would be out, but not Vinny.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Old Doc movie casting

    by toadkillerdog

    Perfect casting? No. Renny, great. Long Tom? Great. Johnny? Great. Monk - Horrible. Ham? Dreadful. They made Monk and Ham into spineless, whiny waay over the top cartoons. Even for a campy version - it was too much. And Ham, though a dandy in the books, is not effeminate.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:50 p.m. CST

    wo there Mr. Freefinger.

    by avs28785

    Okay, how old are you? Cuz i think its pretty fucking immature to attack my morals. You said im working too hard... i dont complain im a paramedic. No moral fibers...the exact opposite. You could say my devotion to Superman has made me who i am today. I looked up to him. Everyone always says if Batman represents the police in comics then superman represents the firefighters. I dont know what in the hell you are talking about "throwing out fifty years of comic book histroy". Is he saving people?yes... does he have all his powers? yes.... Does he still stand for truth and justice?...yes. Are you bothered by the no american way bullshit. I want one fricken example that screws up the history of Superman. Oh he was watching Louis and her family. Shock! Singer was trying to show the human side of superman. He was raised human after all. I would imagine it to be normal to take on some traits of ours. for instance: not letting go of the one girl you were in love with. I was raised catholic. im not a firm believer any more but ever since reading a few books on jesus not being very devine i actually felt that he was more relateable. I liked him more. Now what the hell does that have to do with Superman. Well its pretty fucking obvious. He is a savior. You are watching a comic book movie. You want to see all that cool iconic shit. You talking so much about the comics i would think you would too. Fucking neighbor watching, what the hell was that about... not letting people in when traffic is heavy of course i do unless you are talking about when im on call driving an ambulance. Wait a tic are you one of those idiots that doesn't know how to move out of the way. Or are you the ones that follow the ambulance to get through traffic, using the persons emergency to your benefit. Its very unfortunate people can be so selfish. And if you were a father i would expect you to enjoy the Superman with a kid aspect. I never really understood why they previewed it on fathers day until i saw it with my grandfather and dad. The last seen impacted them so much they started to cry. The message was very powerful to any father and son. And before you fucking trash on my father and grandfather's man hood fuck off. They are both italian and both from the bronx and are you the type to not cry. are you afraid of what that might mean? well if you haven't cryed yet i gurantee you will i have seen grown men fall to their knees in tears because of what i do. Im not a father and i got that fucking message. And superman getting the crap kicked out of him... it was hard for me to watch that. You aren't getting the big picture. The comic histroy... there are so many different versions of superman yet there is an underlining tone that sticks with all of them. Selfless. And i think the movie got that right on. I love it how people always bitch. And no i was wrong we have nothing in common.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:58 p.m. CST


    by Almost_Human

    Yeah, Nolan is far more suited to The Shadow in style but because he has done Batman Begins, which is fairly close in tone to what The Shadow would require, I just don't see him revisiting that well with another character other than Batman. I think Raimi is cartoonish as well, but his delicate touch with Spider-man at least gives me confidence he won't just trash the property. His understanding of horror could be used to great advantage other than laughs if he would leave Bruce Campbell at home. No offense, Bruce.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 1:59 p.m. CST

    And The Phantom

    by Almost_Human

    Just sucked. But I really can't stand Billy Zane, so don't mind me.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Was this an old radio program?

    by Quin the Eskimo

    somehow I remember my sisters listening to the cassettes in the dark, freakking themselves out.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Billy Zane

    by avs28785

    yeah i only liked Zane in the phantom.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 2:10 p.m. CST

    remember the crap fest

    by avs28785

    remember the crap fest invincible with bill zane? wow!

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Doc Casting

    by superninja

    I don't know who should be Doc. I used to think David Morse would be pretty good, but he is getting a little old for the part. Not that I have a problem with them going with someone older - that's as it should be. But don't cast some muscle-bound ham as Doc Savage. He's supposed to come off as extremely intelligent. I like the Rock and all, but he ain't no Doc. And of course, Hugh Jackman would make an excellent Doc, Shadow, Phantom, etc.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 4:59 p.m. CST


    by RenoNevada2000

    I was referring to their looks. Their portrayl can be blamed on the script.

  • Dec. 7, 2006, 5:55 p.m. CST

    they should get all meta with this

    by Mad Mick of the East

    And adapt the '06 novel "The Chinatown Death Cloud Peril" (author's name not remembered). it's pulp like a motherfucker w/ the authors of Doc and Shadow getting in some shit. You could still work in imagination scenes with the characters while dodging the dreaded upteenth retread of them Or you could just read the book. It's good.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Listen to your friend Billy

    by The Ghost Who Walks

    Listen to your friend Billy Zane, he's a cool dude.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 2:31 p.m. CST

    The Rock and Vin Diesel < Doc Savage.

    by Borgnine JR

    Face it guys, neither one of these steroids could play Doc Savage. Doc's resume starts at brain surgeon and takes off from there. Could you see either of these two lummox playing a brain surgeon? Didn't think so. No folks, the right actor to play Savage is probably some European super actor who frequents the stage and who would only do a Doc movie becuz of his great personal love for the character.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 9:33 p.m. CST

    What about the Rocketeer?

    by averagejoe_6

    I know he was actually created in the 1980's but his stories took place in the 30's. The movie came out right about the same time as The Phantom and The Shadow. It was truly a time of pulp geek bliss! It is actually my favorite of these three movies, though I enjoyed them all. Billy Connelly was truly born to play the part of Cliff Secord and I don't think I even have to mention the beauty of Jennifer Connelly. True, they all have their flaws, but the source material was treated with respect when all of these movies were made. There was no lame attempt to "update" them or play for camp. As far as a new Doc casting, what about the new James Bond actor (Daniel Craig)? I know it would never happen, but his stern face and piercing gaze seem to nail it, in my opinion.

  • Dec. 8, 2006, 10:33 p.m. CST

    The Rock could definitely play Doc, if...

    by Bob Cryptonight

    ...he had a decent director. The guy has enough physical talent to play Doc Savage...but he's got to tone down his stupid smirking. I mean, Doc is all internal. Doc should be played a bit like the way Nimoy played Spock. You have to reign it in. Ron Ely did a pretty good job, but he was forced into some dopey "humor" in his protrayal due to the script (which, by the way, reads EXACTLY as shot! *shudder*). Doc has to be played as a man who was raised ONLY to fight evil. He may not be the life of the party, but he will get the job done. I'm sure that whoever makes this film (or any Doc Savage film) will make Doc too much like Indiana Jones.

  • Dec. 9, 2006, 6:11 p.m. CST

    It will be hard to make a Doc film because Doc

    by superninja

    has no real flaws. They will either have to saddle him with flaws, or give him the modern metrosexual treatment. So they will wrestle with how audiences can identify with such a man, just like they did with Superman.

  • Dec. 10, 2006, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Dream Cast

    by Al-Dog

    Here's how I would cast a Doc Savage movie. Doc – The Rock or Hugh Jackman. Monk - As always, he would be the toughest to cast. I have heard people suggest every one from Danny DiVito to Mike Tyson . In the past I had suggested Bob Hoskins. But now I have a better idea; how about Oscar Gutierrez (aka Rey Mysterio)? Physically, he’s about as close as you are going to get without going CGI. At 5’3” and 160 he’s about the right size and he can move. He’d be able to handle the agility part of Monk without any problem. I don’t know if he can act, but he is one of the charismatic wrestlers on the WWF despite wearing a mask. Renny - Brad Garrett; (Everyone loves Raymond) close to seven feet tall gloomy looking, deep voice, perfect. Long Tom - David Hyde Pierce (Fraser) Ham - Charlie Sheen (Platoon, Two and a Half Men) Johnny - Peter Stormare (Prison Break, VW Commercials, Constantine)

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Doc Casting

    by rightturnclyde

    I've thought Jerry Doyle would make the best Doc Savage since he buzzed his hair as Michael Garibaldi on Babylon 5. I thought no one alive could ever play Doc until then.

  • Dec. 11, 2006, 6:20 p.m. CST


    by rightturnclyde

    I'm jazzed that they're trying to make another Shadow film. (Sad I'm not writing it, though.) I thought the last attempt killed it. Glad I'm wrong and that someone like Raimi loves the material that much. However, I will be trepidatious until I learn just what kind of fan he is. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that he prefers the original pulp version. The '94 film was way too influenced by the radio version. BUG DOC and TOADKILLERDOG, have you guys read the Will Murray (writing as Kenneth Robeson) and Philip Jose Farmer Doc novels from the nineties? Or Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, also by Farmer? They're not Dent, but they're great! Check 'em out! And any Doc or Shadow fan out there needs to take anyone seriously when they tell you to read The Chinatown Death Cloud Peril. You're not a fan if you don't read it. What could be better than a Doc/Shadow team-up than one of Lester Dent/Walter Gibson (their creators)? RenoNevada2000, I read somewhere that Pal wanted his Doc film to be more faithful. It was the studio's decision to camp-ify it because they wanted to cash in on the still-popular formula of the Batman TV series with Adam West. They didn't realize America was SO over it.