Cool News
"Crusade" nothingness
Glen here...
...with a brief follow-up to Coaxial's ongoing coverage of the Babylon 5 spin-off series
Crusade.
I've gotten a lot of e-mail about the series, from people desperately seeking
information...any information...about the status of the series, and ongoing efforts &
negotiations to move Crusade from TNT to "another network" (presumably the Sci Fi
Channel).
A lot of folks out there are desperate to know (and genuinely concerned about) the show's fate.
As such, I thought I'd bring you up to date on what little has changed since my last report. Not
terribly exciting, but still, it's an answer to all the "what's going on!?!?!?" messages. ((Glen Note: I
really do not mind the messages at all, and am happy to get them. Just answering some of them...in
bulk...through this posting. Just trying to help...))
In short: negotiations are still happening. There had been substantial indication all of this would
be resolved on Wednesday Feb 17 (two days ago). It was not resolved two days ago.
This is neither a good thing or a bad thing. In Hollywood, things often happen at one of
two paces: 1) phenomenally, frustratingly slow - the kind of slow which makes you want to slam
your head through a wall like Rutger Hauer in Blade Runner, and start tearing sheets off your
bed while singing Jim Morrison songs; or 2) ludicrously...almost irresponsibly...fast. The
kind of fast which makes you believe The Powers That Be can't possibly know what they're doing,
and that whatever product comes out of "the rush to get things done" can't possibly be any good.
Whether good or bad, we seem to be stuck in the first mode. Frankly, I'm expecting
some sort of hint, clue, or announcement any day now. But for the moment, the jury is still
out. As I said, this isn't much news at all. None the less, I wanted to let all the people who sent in
messages know that (at the moment) the only answer is there is no answer.
More to come...
Glen
Or call:
(512) 347-1992
Mail can be sent to:
Glen Oliver
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
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Austin, TX 78716-0812
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I'm first, yay! Anyway, I just wanted to say that I love B5 and Star Trek. I just love B5 more. Both are great franchises that will either rise or fall to the level of their audience. We should just keep on letting the powers that be know what we expect out of them. Crusade will make it on air because it is a marketable product. Hollywood just has to decide how to cut up the pie.
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Don't panic. Remember how long it took B5 to get on the air in the first place? Then how long it
took the series to actually go?
Same timid mindset. Too bad about the new programmers at TNT, but it's the same timid mindset all over again. At least WB knows we're here this time. -
JMS delivers on his promises. I've experienced this first-hand, back in the Genie days when B5 was only known as That Which Cannot Be Named, since it hadn't been bought by anyone.
Crusade looks promising. ACTA was excellent, and I can only show patience that JMS will come through.
Scott -
Finally ACTA will air on CFCF Montreal, and for only the third time EVER B5 will be in Primetime in Montreal (the first was for The original airing of the gathering in '93, the latest was for In the beginning...) At last I can get my first taste of Crusade (and my last of B5)...
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Its silly to blame TNT for this entire mess. If the ratings were there for B5, TNT would have brought Crusade on the air but the sad fact is the ratings just did not justify the outlay for the series.
If it ends up on the SCIFI channel I have mixed emotions. Not a lot of cable systems carry SciFi and being stuck on that channel would mean it would never get mainstream viewing. SciFi is know as the geek network in many circles.
Lets face it, there is a closed audience for most SciFi on TV. Star Trek seems to be the only thing that can draw the casual viewer. All other shows whether superior to Trek or not seem to get the same small (but dedicated) audience.
I would like to see Warner's go for the Syndication slot as all stations that show DS9 will have an opening for a SciFi series in the fall.
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Actually, the ratings for B5 were above average. "A Call To Arms" got a 2.7, which is the same as TNT's much ballyhooed "Houdini" movie, with about a fourth the promotion. ER, which TNT paid an arm and leg for, gets about the same ratings that B5 did, and TNT promotes it constantly, not to mention the fact that ER enjoys a prime timeslot. As for the Sci-Fi Channel, it better matches the demographics of the average B5 viewer, and quite frankly, it could use some better content. As JMS noted, TNT is known more for wrestling, westerns, and historical dramas. Based on the ratings of B5, if Crusade is given a decent amount of promotion, it has the opportunity to become a ratings sucess. (Not to mention that B5 is wildly popular in Europe, and in fact airs on the SFC UK feed, proving that it's a viable market for Crusade.)
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Is it possible that JMS actually wanted the slot that is currently being filled by DS9? Since it is opening up soon and presumably the network will be looking for something similar (i.e., SciFi) to fill the time slot, could JMS really be plotting to get Crusade back on regular TV? Just a thought...
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There is no "time slot" for Deep Space 9, and no network either. It is a syndicated program that is broadcast at different times on different days in different cities. The stations are unaffiliated with each other.
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Look here http://www.dvdfile.com/request_infoline/poll_booth/warner_n.html
and spread the news. -
The message is on the way. Don't worry, it will get there. You can count on it. Rangers never fail.
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I think the ideal home for Crusade would be the WB network. Warner OWNS the show so they wouldnt have to go through these lengthy negotiations like they are with Sc-Fi Channel. It would reach a wider audience, and the WB has proven itself genre-friendly with Buffy, the upcoming Angel, and the short lived Invasion: America. Also, WB has a reputation for a younger "hipper" audience. This would DEFINATLY draw new viewers to the series that didn't watch Babylon 5. As for ratings, it coulnd't do much worse then Voyager...
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"WB has a reputation for a younger "hipper" audience. This would DEFINATLY draw new viewers to the series that didn't watch Babylon 5. As for ratings, it coulnd't do much worse then Voyager..."
But, Crusade is not a "young, hip" show. Buffy's ratings are so different demographically than B5, its almost like night and day.
Every pilot the the WB is developing for the Fall has teens and/or twenty-somethings in it. (I'd be happy to list and describe them, if you'd like, but the info is available at the Hollywood Reporter website) This the number one network for age 12 to 17, we're talking about.
BTW, an upcoming WB series called "Rescue 77" has Marjorie Monaghan in it. She plays one of three young paramedics in LA and the series is from (ta-dah) Aaron Spelling. That's about as "old" as The WB's programs get. -
JMS has said that the WB is not interested in Crusade. Some odd, convoluted thing about different branches of the corporation. This was either in a CIS compilation or a single post to rastb5mod.
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Has anyone seen the ads on sci-fi for sci-fi channel 2.0? It says they will be showing new programs starting march 13th. Any word what they are talking about other than the possiblity of crusade?
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In response to someone who said ER gets same ratings as B5...
yeah, ER reruns get the same ratings as NEW B5.
Sleeping in Light did a pathetic 1.1.
(don't get me wrong I love B5, but the ratings are...well...nothing to die for) -
Actually, SiL was a low rated show mainly because it was viewed in large groups, and was not an episode that would be accessable to most of the non-B5 fan population. Actually, if I recall correctly, the B5 reruns got about the same and sometimes better ratings than Season 5 did. Many people, myself included thought that season 5 was not as well written as past seasons, and the many reruns between the bulk of the season and the final five episodes lowered ratings. Crusade, based on all I've heard, should do much better, especially if it's given any promotion at all.
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A thought has occurred to me regarding the negotiations... isn't it possible that the new "distributor" initially agrees to take only the episodes already filmed and holds off on ordering the rest until they see the ratings?
This is how the major networks operate in regards to new series. I see no reason why a cable network couldn't do the same thing. Thoughts? -
I was bashed pretty hard for suggesting something similar a while back... Use the five (pre upgrade) episodes as an extended pilot run AS THEY ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO AIR, and then move on with the post-upgrade stuff with some sort of time lapse (the pre upgrades take place 6months after ACTA so have ANOTHER 6 months pass). Like B5 it will be a struggle EVERY year to get renewal, and likely the show would be shortened to another Four seasons after the first... But as I have stated before THIS IS A GOOD THING. JMS works best when he is limited in some way... Look what happens when you open things up for him, a bad 5th season, bad movies... The BEST of B5 was done with a shoe-srtring budget and the threat of cancelation hanging like the sword of Damocles over Joe's head... It may seem cruel to say all this, and it will probably put a FEW more wrinkle and gray hairs on the Great Makers head, but hey That's showbiz...
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Correction: I meant of course 4 seasons after the first five eps...
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The WB teen/twenty-something audience is partially what makes it the PERFET home for Crusade. Savant, You said that Crusade was not a "young, hip" show. Well why not? The show hasn't even aired yet. Crusade has a lot going for it. First off it was VERY wise of JMS to drop the words "The Babylon Project" and just call the show "Crusade". People are afraid of spinoffs. It's like The STar Trek's. I know people who will NOT watch Generation or DS9 because they never saw the original series, and hence they think they wouldn't understand the newer shows. By calling the show simply "Crusade" viewers who never saw an episode of Babylon 5 aren't scared off. A younger audience would be GREAT for this show becuase it would start to pump up the ratings. Ratings ARE important. Look at B5's first 4 seasons. There was always a question mark looming over the show. Would it be back next year? No one knew. We were LUCKY B5 lasted the full five seasons. It did NOT get good ratings. WB is GREAT at promoting thier shows. If Crusade had the kind of Promotion that Buffy and Felicity have people would watch it. There is a major interest in Sci-Fi now because of the new Star Wars movie. This would also help the shows ratings BUT only if it was on a NETWORK. Sci-Fi channel just doesn't gain a huge audience and for a show's audience to expand it needs new viewers to discover it. That WILL NOT happen on the Sci-Fi channel no matter how good Crusade is. And FINALLY while putting Crusade on WB would introduce a younger audience to the B5 universe, it would ALSO attract an OLDER audience to the WB. This would be mutually benificial to both the network AND the show. WB could air the show Wedsday at nine. God knows there's no good Sci-Fi on at that time. Oh, yeah, there is that UPN show...I still say WB is the PERFECT home for Crusade.
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Funny, before the last post, I actually was FOR Crusade going on the WB... But based on your post I would be TERRIFIED that WB would want JMS to make changes to "hip" up the show that would make the whole Memo fiasco of a year ago seem tame be comparison. You know I don't CARE what ratings Crusade get's, ALL I know is that on Sci-fi JMS will be left alone...
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How the hell did my post get all the way to the top?
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>
First, I have seen an episode of Crusade, and IMO, it's not "young or hip" and you won't be seeing a feature piece on it in Entertainment Weekly (who fawns over Dawson and Buffy and all those WB shows). IMO.
(that's not saying it won't appeal to current B5 fans. It will, IMO. But, B5 has a very different demographic profile than Buffy)
Second, young audiences seem to respond only to young characters. Buffy's characters fit that bill. And their ratings are strong among the same demos that the actors belong to. Crusade's characters do not look very young.
I believe The WB network would insist on even more changes, particularly casting ones, than TNT supposedly has. -
I completely think it would FIT on the the WB ... Why?? I watch Buffy, DC, and Felicity and am not ashamed to say that this is good TV... I am 32 not 12 and many, I mean MANY of the people I work with whom are quite older than I watch this station AS WELL as being huge B5 fans... The shows, especially Buffy remind me of how well written B5 was ... (of course B5 never got the credit that Buffy is now receiving)... If WB is smart they will give Crusade a shot because 'Hyperion Bay' was cancelled ... Mondays at 9pm central are GREAT!!!! I would bet the ratings Gods that it would do just fine.... Oh well like anything in life my opinion won't matter....
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Savant, you say that young audiences only relate to young characters. I disagree 100%. ER draws in MANY MANY young viewers. So does Ally Mcbeal. Young audiences are (unfortunalty) VERY influenced by promotion. The WB promotion department could make just about ANYTHING look appealing to a young audience. Put Diagnosis Murder on the WB and thier promotions department will have 15 year old girls tuning in after they run a few ads. They could DEFINATLY draw in a fairly large audience for Crusade. Heck, young audiences like The X-Files and Buffy and those are other genre shows!
As for Rock & Roll 2000's comments, I partially agree. I HATE Dawson's Creek because it's unrealistic and aimed squarly at 15 year old girls. Teen age kids don't act like that. That's what Kevin WIlliamson THINKS teenagers act like. And now after a couple of years they are starting to act like the kids on Dawson's Creek cause they saw it TV. Go figure. Felicity I dont care for but can respect. I can recognize that it is pretty well written but it's not my cup of tea. Now Buffy, WOW. That is EASILY one of the best shows on TV. It's my 2nd favorite show without a doubt. -
JMS has already stated that due to politics within Warner Bros., the WB Network is not an option for Crusade at all. It's unfortunate, but that's life.
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Look I'm not trying to be... denegrating or anything but, what's the big deal about buffy the vampire slayer? Saw the movie... it was like Blade meets Clueless? My 6 year old niece LOVES it so it CAN'T have much in the way of a complex adult plot so what's so good about it? I'm dead serious here, I've caught bits of it on a local youth station, and I thought I was watching Dawson's Creek with fangs... So I sincerly ask, why are people so high on Buffy (other than the fact that every one on the show looks like they came out of a Calvin Klein commercial)? Please no one take offense, I've been known to watch kids shows myself on occasion (Beasties just recently)... I'm NOT trying to show superiority or anything, I'm just curious...
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Just to respond to the "buffy?" post:
IMO, Buffy the series has rather well written and witty dialog. It also has an on-going story.
It is way above the movie in quality. (I initially ignored buffy the series due to the quality (lack of) of the movie, but the series has turned out to be a refreshing surprise).
Hoping for some good Crusade news soon. -
I for one have never seen "Buffy," however, the big deal is that the show is allegedly one of the best-written shows on television. I was listening to "All Things Considered" on NPR last week, and their resident television commentator, who also writes for the NY Daily News, listed the five best dramas on TV: Homicide, Law and Order, The Practice, NYPD Blue, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He said he was sure his choice was going to shock people, but he thought it had some of the best television writing he'd seen in a long time. Now, if I can only remember to watch the damn show...
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"Savant, you say that young audiences only relate to young
characters. I disagree 100%. ER draws in MANY MANY young viewers. So does Ally Mcbeal."
And both shows have young characters (Dr. Carter and Ally are in their 20's). You've proved my point, not disproved it.
"Young audiences are (unfortunalty) VERY influenced by promotion. The WB promotion department could make just about ANYTHING look appealing to a young
audience. Put Diagnosis Murder on the WB and thier promotions department will have 15 year old girls tuning in after they run a few ads."
Gee,if young audiences are so gullible, why didn't they watch Hyperion Bay?
"They could DEFINATLY draw in a fairly large audience for Crusade. Heck, young audiences like The X-Files and Buffy and those are other genre shows!"
How old's Buffy. How old are Scully and Mulder?
Look, I'm just the messenger and observer here. It was Jamie Kellner of the WB Network who turned down Crusade two years ago. He's the one who picks all those pilots with the young characters in them. Maybe you should tell him all your programming theories. Don't expect a job offer, though. -
Not to turn this into a Buffy discussion group, but to answer Dolfanar's sincere question:
For one thing, so far as I have been able to tell, the TV series and the movie have only their title in common (I've only seen the last ten minutes or so of the movie, myself, but what I saw didn't impress me). So please don't judge the series by the lameness of the movie. The series is amazingly intelligent, and manages to combine some very serious issues with dialog that will make you laugh out loud (as JMS did on many occasions in B5). The reason it is so accesible to younger viewers is that the characters are written as teens--i.e. they don't talk and act like thirty-year-olds. This level of honesty is one of the reasons the show is so very accesible for older viewers as well. If you decide to give it a try, please watch more than one episode before making a decision; like B5, it has an ongoing storyline, and also like B5 it has "arc" stories mixed in with lighter stand-alones.
As for your six-year-old niece, I was a big fan of the old Star Treks when I was six, but somehow I doubt this piece of information will make you argue that Star Trek was a kiddie show unsuitable for adults. My 58 year old mother was the one who turned me on to Buffy (and not incidentally also the person who clued me in about B5!). I myself am a 27 year old who has an extremely busy schedule, but I make time to watch a whopping three hours of TV a week: Buffy and the two Star Treks. I wouldn't waste my time if I didn't think it was really worth it. -
When I was young, I admit it I WAS a trekkie, as I grew up I went to conventions, and seing the movies in the theatre with my dad became a tradition (I saw 4,5, and 6) but as Star Trek became 2-parts Techno Babble, one-part Deus Ex-machina I lost interest, I found NEW shows that were fresher, better written, and generally held together a LOT better on a second (or more) viewing... So, what the hell does this have to do with anything? I am sick and tired of DESPERATE Trekkies, so dispirited by being CRAPPED upon by those Icons whom they worship, and so COWARDLY that they decide to attack those who critize their "precious" franchise, by sending E-mails rather than exposing their Ignorance and Stupidity in public on this message board... ENOUGH, i've had it, from now on ALL the ridiculous, badly composed and INNANE flames I receive I will post so as to expose the FANATISM that stems from the worship of TV shows... This worship extends to more than JUST Star Trek HOWEVER I can think of NO better way to start... Below you will find a post From: adatalor@gte.net (Leigh Vershowske)
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In a message dated 22/02/99 22:38:22 EST, you write:
So let me get this straight, you are stupid, you want to stay within your 5 word vocabulary, and look for no intelligence in a television show (B5).B5 uses the same vocabulary over and over again because the writers have only a 200-300 word vocabulary. One of the greatest minds of all time created almost half of the words in his vocal list, maybe you have heard of him, his name is Shakespeare!!!!! A standard human has a vocabulary list of about 12000 words. Shakespeare had around 35000 and nearly half of those were of his own creation. You obviously have not read Shakespeare and cannot possibly begin to comprehend the creation and usage of new words.
If you have any comments, please mail me at iridium@startrekmail.com
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Does anyone know if Crusade and possibly Babylon 5 moving to a different network in the US will affect distribution rights outside America, especially in Australia
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Well, not to mention "other" sites here at Ain't it Cool, but the cinescape site has some new pics up of Crusade - and here's the interesting part - they say they were sent to them by none other than TNT! Now why would TNT send out publicity photos for a series they were dumping and had no interest in? It seems maybe JMS wants out of TNT more than they want to get rid of him? Any thoughts out there?
AF
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I and all my friends like Babylon5 more than any other show out there right now. Even though it hard to find.
Babylon5 was hard to like at first. It was always changing time slots even channels.
Its an USA show running from a USA channel (the only one we can't get without a satalite dish. So, even when we know there is an episode or movie we can't show our support(ratings)until it eventually shows up on another channel.
Grrrrr. -
You just don't know when you have a good thing on your hands... Maybe JMS should have made B5 in Canada, eh? It worked for X-files, Outer Limits, Beasties, psi-factor, StarGate, and others...
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Weird man, That two Canucks would post like that at almost the exact same time... hmm, I wonder if it has anything to do with that chip we have implanted in our brains... OOPS, I've said too much... eh?
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I'm surprised that Crusade hasn't been compared to Star Blazers (a.k.a. Spacecruiser Yamato) where a lone ship with a big fucking gun had to find a cure for Earth's radioactive contamination. And I'm sure JMS doesn't watch anime.
And I feel Buffy the Vampire Slayer would be taken more seriously by fandom if it had a testosterone-laden name which would get them involved in the storyline. I know I was reticent to watch Buffy because of its name but it's a damned fine show. -
I would probably been more interested if Buffy was played by an average looking well conditioned thirty year old actress, I'm sick and tired of tiny emaciated little Dagos prancing about the screen... Sorry but if I want a hard on I'll watch Baywatch (Note this has nothing to do with the Quality of the show OR the people who watch it, this is just a pet peave of mine, that only Models get hired now a days, and ACTORS are left doing bit parts)
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Several years ago, waaaay before the word "Crusade" had ever been uttered, a poster on the rastb5 newsgroup asked JMS if so-and-so minor character was supposed to be named after someone from some anime...I forget the exact details. Anyhoo, JMS' reply was something along the lines of, "I don't watch Japanimation. People I meet keep trying to get me to check it out, but frankly I just don't *get* it. I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but not everything in B5 is supposed to be an homage to something else." People keep bringing up the similarities between the two shows, in ways ranging from "Gee, it sure is neat that JMS is bringing Star Blazers into the 90s!" to "That bastard JMS doesn't have an original bone in his body." The mistake so many people make is in thinking that JMS has somehow read every comic book, seen every movie, and played every computer game that they have...as if a person who's spent a hundred hours a week at his keyboard every week for over a decade would have the time to keep up with all that crap. If you want to know where JMS gets his ideas, I suggest cracking open a book--preferably something by Ray Bradbury or Isaac Asimov. You might find that something you saw in "Star Blazers" first appeared in a story from the thirties...after all, there really isn't all that much new under the sun.
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My only concern over moving Crusade to the Sci Fi Channel is that network's track record with original series. Their tendency is to order a minimal number of episodes and then run them into the ground. Take "Welcome to Paradox" for example. The episode they aired Monday night has run at least four times since the show premiered less than six months ago. The new episodes of "Sliders" have been in a similar high rotation, yet many of the episodes originally produced for Fox have never aired on the scifi channel.
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Dolfanar...well, hey, you obviously have a right to your opinion about Buffy, but I have to agree with others here who have recommended watching a few complete episodes before forming that opinion. I too was skeptical after the movie, which was fairly lame IMHO. The series had "bad spinoff" written all over it, and it was on for over two full seasons before I started watching it. Now I'm lamenting the fact that only six of the eps I missed (which include some rather significant arc-related backstory) are out on video so far, and that syndication won't start until sometime in 2001. All I can tell you is that I consider judging the series based on the movie and "caught bits" to be an even bigger mistake than judging B5 based on "The Gathering" (and I should know, because I made that mistake long ago as well :). I love B5, so I'm not going to compare the two...except to note that, IMHO as always, the dialogue on Buffy *regularly* rivals the best dialogue JMS has written and puts his worst to shame. And, c'mon, who says a show can't have a "complex adult plot" just because a 6-year-old likes it? I was watching "Moonlighting" back when I was too young to fully appreciate the sexual tension in that show; I remember wishing they'd just tell jokes and solve cases. Watching that series again now has revealed wonderful new dimensions, but just because I didn't completely understand the "big picture" at the time doesn't mean that I didn't consider it the best thing on TV. The great thing about quality entertainment is that it *can* be appreciated in different ways by different people, and I think Buffy is a prime example. Plus, Dagos or not -- I'm not overly fond of the slur, though I know you're using it largely in jest -- you have to admit that there aren't too many attractive young women on TV who regularly get to kick as much butt as Buffy. :)
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Contributing further to the hijacking of the thread...well, hey, I guess we need *something* to talk about in light of the recent sad "Crusade" developments! Anyway, I too am skeptical about the need for a "Buffy" spinoff. Still, considering that I said the same thing about Buffy the Movie and was proven wrong, I'll undoubtedly give "Angel" a chance. King Grinch, interesting questions about how far ahead JW has planned out "Buffy" in comparison to JMS and B5. I think it's really two sides of a coin. On the one hand, the fact that B5 was planned out in advance as a five-year arc gave it a depth of foreshadowing and complexity of storyline that "Buffy" may never achieve. On the other hand, I might argue that advance planning to the extent that JMS did it with B5 isn't really a necessary prerequisite for (or even necessarily an aid to) good continuity. When you say that JMS took "unforeseen changes into consideration," I think you're actually pointing out one of the few flaws in his approach. The very unforeseen nature of those changes -- the uncertainty of a fifth-season renewal, the highly unfortunate (IMHO) departures of Michael O'Hare after S1 and Claudia Christian after S4, and other, lesser monkeywrenches -- obviously caused some fairly major midstream revisions to B5's original arc. To JMS's credit, he worked hard to make those changes fit, though folks will probably spend years debating how well it worked. (I think he did a pretty good job under trying circumstances, and the fact that I'd still kill to see the original arc in all its glory, with MO'H and CC all the way through and no Boxleitner or 5th-season filler, is my problem, not his.) JW doesn't really have that problem with "Buffy." If, heaven forbid, Alyson Hannigan (for instance) decided to leave after this season, JW might have some rethinking to do...but he probably wouldn't have to jump through the kinds of hoops that JMS clearly needed to to make "War Without End" work after telling the first part of that story ("Babylon Squared") with a different leading man. So, dare I suggest that there's actually something to be said for "making it up as you go along," given the inherently unpredictable nature of television? -- Drumz, still wondering how JW is going to deal with the fact that Buffy *graduates* this year...the old "held back" trick can work once at most!
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