AICN COMICS ROUNDTABLE REVIEW OF DC COMICS' 52, INFINITE CRISIS, 7 SOLDIERS AND MORE!!!

Welcome once again to another AICN Comics League of @$$Holes Roundtable Review! I, Faithful Talkbackers, am the Moderator, the omniscient and lonely voice of reason haunting the halls of @$$hole HQ. When the ‘Holes last met at the roundtable, they discussed all of the high points and low points of Marvel Comics and their recent event/crossover books. This time we're going to focus on Marvel's Distinguished Competition, DC Comics.
The last few years have been pretty big for DC. The well publicized miniseries IDENTITY CRISIS snowballed into the cosmic INFINITE CRISIS. Then DC continuity jumped to ONE YEAR LATER, and flashbacked to that missing year in the weekly 52 maxi-series that recently reached the halfway point. All the while, Grant Morrison has been doling out an event of sorts he calls the SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY. DC's got a whole lot going on these days. But let's start with the most recent and focus on 52 first. Now that half of the maxi-series is over, what do you guys think of 52? Any of you reading it?

SQUASHUA: I've become somewhat obsessed with the mysteries behind the story of 52. It's a conspiracy I can handle. I don't feel like I have to take the first sentence of the seventh paragraph of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and somehow cross-reference it to Tolstoy while dropping acid and masturbating to "The Illuminatus! Trilogy" (I'm looking at you, 7 SOLDIERS!). As a whole, the story never makes me feel beneath it.
SUPERHERO: I was reading it until issue 24. I just ended up dropping it. Not because issue 24 was horrible or anything, it's just that, well, I'm bored with it. There's some neat stuff in there but not enough to keep me coming back for more.
AMBUSH BUG (BUG): I'm feeling the same, but I haven't given up hope with the series yet. To me, the series seems to be meandering around a bit, popping around the DC globe, and only sometimes following a direct storyline. DC promises that all the threads are going to come together soon, but if that really is the case, the story has taken a hell of a long time to get there.
SUPERHERO: It's cool that DC is promising that all the threads are supposed to amount to something...the problem is that I'm at the point where I don't care what it's supposed to amount to! They promised INFINITE CRISIS would be worth all the minis I bought and all the anticipation, but guess what? It wasn't. So who's to say 52 is going to be different?
SLEAZY G (SLEAZY): I know where you're coming from, but I've always been a fan of anthology books and that's what this really is in a lot of ways. I'm one of the people who only ever bought ACTION COMICS on a regular basis when they did the weekly anthology thing for a year in the 80's. For me, maybe it's partly that nostalgia that made 52 appealing to me.
BUG: Some issues have worked better than others. I hate to sound like a broken record regarding single issue story structure, but each comic should be like an episode of a TV series, with little plot advancement and some kind of resolution or cliffhanger in the end to keep you coming back. Some of 52's issues have done that, but sometimes I feel like I'm just being prepared for something and it’s taking too long doing it. I don't want to be prepared to be entertained--I want to be entertained, dammit!

MODERATOR: Okay, as usual, we may be getting ahead of ourselves. Why don't I go ahead and give a quick recap of what exactly is going on in 52 up to now? The story is an expansive one that spans the globe and beyond hanging on the tag that even though Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman disappeared for a year, the DCU was not without heroes. So far we've seen the rise and fall of Booster Gold, opportunist super-hero who fell victim to his own fame when it was revealed that his heroism was disingenuous. Booster seemingly died after uncovering a clues to a mystery that had something to do with the number 52, the bending of time, and the Crisis that started it all.
We've also followed the down-on-her-luck, former Gotham detective Renee Montoya as she has been undergoing training from the enigmatic Question. They uncover a new heroine in Gotham, Kathy Kane aka the new/old Batwoman (and Montoya’s former lover), and a trail that leads to Kahndaq, a Middle Eastern country ruled by one of 52's other stars, Black Adam.
Black Adam has made Kahndaq a major world super power and has won the powerful Isis as a bride. Adam saves Isis' brother from death by granting him a portion of his own power. Dubbing himself Osiris, the Black Adam Family—a shadowy reflection of SHAZAM's Marvel Family--was formed.
There's also a plot involving Lex Luthor, Steel, and his niece Natasha. Natasha lost her power at the beginning of this series. Luthor has developed a process that activates the meta-gene in humans. Steel tries to stop Natasha from going through with this process, but the teen rebels. Steel isn't buying Luthor's philanthropist act and knows that something more insidious is afoot.
The series also follows Ralph Dibny and Dr. Fate (now in full floating helmet, KINGDOM COME mode) as they attempt to search for Sue Dibny's soul in Hell. Wonder Girl has joined a cult worshipping INFINITE CRISIS casualty Superboy as a messiah of resurrection. Starfire, Animal Man, and Adam Strange are trapped in space and trying to get home as a result of the Rann-Thanagar War. Dr. Magnus of the Metal Men was investigating the disappearance of all of the DCU's mad scientists resulting in his own abduction. The JLA and Teen Titans have attempted to form and reform, but without Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, or J'onn J'onzz in the DCU, they've had little luck in doing so. Lobo has started his own religion and has chosen to walk down the path of non-violence, but the temptation of a good fragging is always ever-present when the Main Man’s around. Someone is building a Red Tornado robot with junk and lumber. And the diabolical Egg Fu has reared his ugly head...er egg.
So with so much going on, what are your favorite and least favorite plots running in through 52?

HUMPHREY LEE (HUMPHREY): The plots that were interesting have had some of the wind taken out of their sails by leading up to events we know already happened due to the ONE YEAR LATER reboot.
BUG: See, that's where I think the series is successful. Because all of the characters have had a special "hold" put on them for this entire year of stories in DC proper, I really have no idea what's going to happen in this series when it reaches its conclusion. Well, except for the whole UN mandate stuff regarding super heroes and the growing war between the super-hero communities of different countries. That stuff has been fleshed out in the CHECKMATE and GREEN LANTERN series.
SUPERHERO: I liked the Montoya/Question stuff when it wasn't dealing with Batwoman. Batwoman is a bore.
SQUASHUA: It's unfortunate that they seemed to only use her as "stunt fodder"; she was around for what, two issues and then they didn’t touched on her again until just recently?
BUG: I think the absence of Batwoman in DC proper probably indicates that she's being set up to be killed with Montoya possibly mourning her death during this actual year and in the end, taking up the role of Batwoman out of respect for the original.
SUPERHERO: I've been thinking the exact same thing...I think Montoya is gonna eventually be the next Batwoman!
SLEAZY: What the hell is with you people? Montoya WILL NEVER and SHOULD NEVER be a cape. Period. Rucka's not gonna do it. She's always gonna be a regular street-level chick. She hates capes waaay too much to ever become one. They're clearly going somewhere with her, but it's not Batwoman.
SUPERHERO: Everyone freaks out at just the mention of Montoya becoming Batwoman! Which is why it'll happen.
SLEAZY: *sigh* Everyone freaks out because it's so goddamned stupid. I don't know why you people can't understand this character's motivation. She was permanently branded in a highly visible area by one of these hero's villains. They interfered with her cases over and over. She lost friends and lovers. She isn't gonna suddenly go "gosh, maybe I was wrong". Anybody who tries to suggest this just flat-out doesn't get the basics of writing.
BUG: She hates capes, that's the cool concept behind her becoming one. It'll happen. They're setting her up to be the next Question, but out of obligation and respect for the death of Batwoman, she'll fill her shoes.
SLEAZY: It's a shit idea that displays no originality whatsoever, so just move on before you cause a crippling brain aneurysm...
HUMPHREY: And there you go with another trend that has been pissing me off since the whole OYL/52 deal kicked off, DC's lame attempt at creating more "legacies" by killing off or retiring as many of their heroes as they can and putting in replacements.
BUG: Awww, see, Sleazy, you’ve got a friend after all.
HUMPHREY: Seriously people, just pushing a character out of the way and bringing in a new version doesn't make the property interesting again! Good stories make the properties interesting!
SQUASHUA: I saw an interview where the writers/editors talked of a hidden New God who has been presented throughout the series. If SEVEN SOLDIERS is canon, the New Gods have taken human form. Based on the multiple questions surrounding her identity, my money is on Montoya. Anyone?
BUG: Nah, Montoya will be the next Batwoman.
SUPERHERO: If Montoya's past isn't the perfect setup for a superhero origin I don't know what is...
SLEAZY: I swear to god, one more time and I'm gonna hunt every last one of you "Montoya is the new Batwoman" fuckers down and beat your skulls in with Greg Rucka's own words on the subject painted on bricks in the hope of finally making a dent.
DAVE FARABEE: Yeah, but Rucka can't be trusted, Sleaze-man. He turned the tail end of GOTHAM CENTRAL, THE quintessential non-hero book, into a tie-in to the supernatural component to the biggest DC crossover in 20 years. THIS guy I should trust? Greg Rucka = company man.
ALL:…DAVE!!!!!!
SLEAZY: Don't get me wrong--I'm still pissed he cyborged Sasha Bordeaux up. Hate it. But that's different from him (and maybe Brubaker? I don't recall) stating in no uncertain terms that they'd never do it. Now having her replace or sidekick The Question? Kind of a cop-out, but not entirely objectionable depending on how it's done.
DAVE F.: I hope that when Montoya becomes Batwoman they give her a bigger rack.
ALL (but SLEAZY): …DAVE!!!!
SLEAZY: I've decided I hate you all.
SUPERHERO: I'm sticking to Batwoman. I'll probably be wrong but y'know I could be right.
SLEAZY: NO YOU COULD NOT BE RIGHT AAAAAAARRRHGHGAHGAHGHA
BUG: You scared Dave off.
SUPERHERO: I think Sleazy's gonna have an aneurism! MONTOYA IS BATWOMANMONTOYA IS BATWOMANMONTOYA IS BATWOMANMONTOYA IS BATWOMANMONTOYA IS BATWOMAN!
SLEAZY: Goddammit I wish I could Hulk out right now.
SQUASHUA: Speaking of The Question, how does he know so much? Like knowing to rescue the crime bible and having the foresight to pick Montoya as the (wo)man for the job?
BUG: Hey, he's the one asking the questions around here, not you!!!! Maybe Booster is this rumored New God. Or Super Chief!!! I really liked him. Why'd he have to die so soon? First Manitou Raven gets killed, and then Black Condor is killed in INFINITE CRISIS, and now Super Chief in 52. It ain't safe to be Native American in the DCU.
SQUASHUA: Or African American in Marvel.
SUPERHERO: I love the Black Adam stuff in 52...mostly because a lot of it was already set up in JSA and it seems like a logical progression of his story.
BUG: I'm really liking the Black Adam storyline. DC has done a good job at setting him up to be a complex character. Not really a villain, but not necessarily a hero either. He’s DC’s Namor now. I don’t think they had a character like that before.
SLEAZY: I like the Adam storyline somewhat, but it feels like they're setting up Isis to take a fall, and it bothers me a little. There's been far too much of that already, like with Booster and Super Chief and whoever that speedster chick Luthor whacked was. I understand getting you interested or invested before doing something bad to a character from a writer's perspective, but it's getting to the point where I'd like some of the characters or stories I'm interested in to actually stick around or have a more upbeat outcome. They don't all have to bite it, y'know?
BUG: Aww, c'mon, do you actually think that Booster is dead? Booster is either going to be making an appearance later on or already is as the masked mystery man Supernova. At least that's who I think it is...
SUPERHERO: Yep. Me too. But I'd heard some talk that Supernova might be the New God...like Lightray or something.
SLEAZY: Oh sweet baby jeebus no. I LOATHE the New Gods. Dear god do they suck. I'm sorry, but NOBODY--not even Morrison and Rucka and Johns and Giffen--can make those characters worthwhile.
BUZZ: Everybody has a character or set of characters they feel this way about. Me, I hate Thor.
BUG: Mine’s Captain Marvel Jr.!!!! Ooooh, do I despise that gimpy bastard!
SLEAZY: You know which character I hate? Guy Who Won't Shut Up About Montoya Being Batwoman #3.
DAN: Is something bothering you, Sleazy? Cuz I heard something about Montoya maybe becoming Batwoman, and I was thinking about that and missed all your other comments.
BUG: I think Booster is going to be the new Montoya.
SLEAZY: Bug, I hate you most of all.
DAN: As I've always hated Booster Gold, I could have cared less about that story.
SQUASHUA: What don't you like about Booster? I love that he's a complete sleaze. I hope they are going to address all the inconsistencies surrounding his character recently and not just dismiss them with "Hypertime". What I mean by this is that Booster was around during COUNTDOWN. Then, I believe he states (somewhere) that he's going to go back to the future and get some help. The next time we see Booster, it's in INFINITE CRISIS and he's fresh from the future with a brand new Skeets. With the way he acts since he's arrived, one would think that the Post-IC Booster Gold is (was) an entirely new entity.
DAN: I don't know that I can nail down exactly what it is that bothers me so much about Booster, but I think a lot of it has to do with his attitude. Characters like that tend to leave me cold.
SLEAZY: Dude, then how the hell did you end up here? Don't you know who we are?
DAN: Last I checked, none of us were claiming to be heroes...
SQUASHUA: Booster is dead, but I wouldn't count him out yet. He's a time traveler who technically died off-screen in a story that involves time travel. We haven't seen the last of him and I'm sure he's been set up to redeem himself in the final act.
SUPERHERO: I hate the Space Odyssey/Great Space Coaster thing.
HUMPHREY: I really, really, really wanted to like the “Lost in Space” story because Adam Strange and Animal Man are two of my favorite characters, but that whole thing went a place no comic should ever go.
DAN: I dug the space odyssey right up until Lobo entered the picture. I've always hated that character, and while he's less offensive here than in most places, he knocked me right out of that story.
BUG: Yeah, I’m not really into the space plotline mainly because I know next to nothing about the main three characters and the plot has given me very little to steer me into caring about them. The only character in that plotline that I am actually familiar with is Lobo and I really can’t stand the character because of the oversaturation of the character throughout the eighties and nineties.
SUPERHERO: The most interesting thing for me was what happened in issue 24 with the new Justice League formed by Firestorm. I actually thought that team would have been interesting to see develop but, of course, they killed that right out of the gate. Only two plotlines actually interested me (Black Adam and the new JLA) and one was kicked out the window almost from the get-go. I had to drop it after issue 24...it just couldn't keep my interest.
HUMPHREY: I'm actually a fan of Steel (Shaq flop aside) but that storyline is horrible. It doesn't help that his niece is easily the most annoying comic character I've read more than once.
SUPERHERO: Does anyone actually like Steel? I've always hated that character...
DAN: I do, but that plot is just irritating me.
SLEAZY: I never liked Steel much before, but then I only came across him in JLA. I think they're doing a decent job with his story: they set up an understandable conflict with his niece, and he's really leaving his ass hanging out in the wind considering his new look is part of a setup on Luthor's part. I can honestly say this is the first time he's held any interest for me whatsoever.
BUG: I never liked Steel. The guy just fails to entertain me. He's always been this bland non-character that has now become more bland since he's been reduced to the role of worrying dad. If he really was this powerful iconic character with steel hard skin everyone at DC is trying to pass him off as, he'd "steel" up and slap some sledge hammer to Luthor and his crew. In 52, John Henry Irons' balls are the only thing that aren't made of steel.
SLEAZY: Brilliant analysis there: Steel's too busy thinking things through? He should just punch stuff and make an ass out of himself in front of the media? The dude is smart enough to know he's playing Luthor's game and not the other way around, and he's trying to do the right thing without looking like he's the bad guy.
BUG: And making a hell of a snooze-fest of a story out of it in the process. How many times are we to see Steel eat shit because it's the right thing to do? He's got steel hard skin that drips molten metal and he's spent 27 issues staring at his shoes. Boring.
SLEAZY: He's not eating shit, he's getting his ducks in a row. It's set up, man.
SQUASHUA: Right from the beginning, he should have been frank with his niece (Hi, I'm Frank!), and told her that Luthor poisoned him rather than let her assume he was in the Everyman program. We do know, considering where he ends up OYL, that Luthor loses. He's the only major presence of 52 that we've seen OYL, besides Ugly Mannheim.
BUG: BTW, anyone see the new JSA advertisement with a new/old Steel on the roster? Maybe John Henry Irons is one of the characters that's not going to make it out of 52 alive...
PROFFESSOR CHALLENGER (PROF): That's going to be Commander Steel as he was in ALL-STAR SQUADRON. And a "real hardcore badass" (verbatim from Geoff to me). That doesn't necessarily preclude Steel from still being around. To my way of thinking, the biggest indication that Steel is gone by OYL is that I don't remember him being considered at all for membership in the new JLA.
SUPERHERO: As far as the Elongated Man subplot goes...it's been OK, but no great shakes for me.
HUMPHREY: The whole resurrection cult thing drove me batty, and since we only see a tidbit about it every five issues or so, the stuff with the Fate helmet and the missing scientists didn't keep my attention at all before I stopped reading the title.
SLEAZY: The Dibny thing in particular looks like it's going somewhere I wouldn't have expected, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. Setting him up to be a major player on the magical side of the DCU is a good way to distinguish him from both Plastic Man and from the other detective-ish characters like The Question and Batman. On the other hand, I haven't seen him turn up yet in the post-52 DCU, which makes me worry he won't be around either, which would bum me out.
BUG: Remember, there’s been an official “hold” put on all of 52’s major players until the end of the series. Dibny, Batwoman, Isis, Steel--all of these characters we’re hypothesizing may be dead by the end of 52 may not be present due to this “hold.”
DAN: I initially found the Dibny story to be lame, making Wonder Girl look like kind of an idiot, but as it progressed I warmed to it a bit and I'm cautiously optimistic now. I'm actually impressed by how well the whole maxi-series holds together for a weekly with continuous stories - it does it better than I expected. It has some missteps, but those are mainly caused by the fact that it happens in "real time' so a story can disappear for issues as nothing happens in it. It's also hampered a bit by having to address so many things a once, but that's the nature of the beast when you try to tell the story of an entire world for a year.
BAYTOR: I read the first couple of issues of 52, had a good laugh at Disco Donna, and haven’t even been tempted to look at it again. For me, the DCU drifted so far away from the sort of stories I’m interested in that I just can’t get any enthusiasm going for their latest big event. What do I want? I want a bunch of books that only vaguely interact with each other. I don’t want my favorite book to skip ahead a full year unless it wants to skip ahead a full year.
BUG: I know this weekly format has got to be a bitch for DC, but it really is an interesting experiment. And for the most part it's been a success for DC since they haven't missed a week yet. Marvel can't put a seven issue event out on time, but DC can do 20-some and counting issues in a row without a hitch. That says a lot about the organization of both companies right now. I respect DC for attempting and for the most part accomplishing such a large task.
BAYTOR: Man, hard to believe I am a big DC fan. I keep waiting for a moment to jump in and I've got fucking nothing. I recognize the words you're saying, but I don't know what they mean.
BUG: There is an awful lot going on and DC does rely quite a bit on the reader following the storyline pretty closely to understand what's going on. DC is not a very inclusive universe these days. If you didn't jump on during IDENTITY CRISIS, you're pretty much fucked when it comes to understanding the big story, and even that story had deep ties further into DC's past. I know DC is trying to distinguish itself from Marvel, but they really should break down and acknowledge that Marvel is doing something right by having a recap page at the beginning of each issue. Hell, get rid of that annoying Didio editorial page at the end of each issue. I'd much rather read up on a recap than that.
HUMPHREY: But there's the other thing that bugs me about this book in general. It's that in order to make 52 relevant in the slightest we get to have plot threads in the current books delayed until the events actually occur in 52. So you're just reading along in, say, TEEN TITANS, and then just because it was finally in 52 the week before all of a sudden it's like "Man Wonder Girl, remember when you were in that stupid resurrection cult? WTF were you thinking?" It's just horribly jarring because instead of organically dealing with these changes that have technically already happened it just becomes an "oh, by the way..."

MODERATOR: Well, let’s move onto OYL then, where each ongoing series jumped forward a year in continuity to allow room for the 52 maxiseries. What did you guys think of how DC pulled this off?

SUPERHERO: Yeah, the whole "jumping a year forward" in the regular books is something that was hard to take. It actually reminded me of the whole SECRET WAR mess back in the day. Remember that? They all jump into the Beyonder's complex and disappear and the next issue they're all back and Spidey's got a new costume and She Hulk is on the Fantastic Four...what the...? And then you had to wait a whole year to see exactly what happened as SW played itself out. The whole jumping a year ahead thing while another series plays itself out is absolutely jarring...
SLEAZY: Maybe so...but why is that a bad thing? I think it was meant to be jarring, and I can see why that would be a great storytelling technique. It makes everybody sit up and say "whoa, wait--WHAT?!?" and take notice of what's going on. In fact, the books that have changed less noticeably are also much less interesting to me. I don't mind a shakeup now and again as long as the explanation works.
SUPERHERO: Or it makes everybody sit up and say. "whoa, wait-WHAT THE FUCK??? Why should I give a crap? I have to wait another YEAR before this all plays itself out after I've been reading all these minis for a year plus a big tie-in event???? Wotta jip!"
HUMPHREY: Eh, it's okay. I mean, most of the "changes" have been negligible so far, so it's not like this supposed overhaul of theirs was anything huge to transition. So we have a new Atom and Blue Beetle, apparently Luthor is now on the outs with the public, and yadda yadda.
I mean, it all just goes back to what I was saying about the way 52 affects the outcome of books that are trying to progress forward but they have to wait until it's uncovered in the 52 series. It's not like anything major can really go down, otherwise we'd have noticed by now. You just can't go eight months ahead in a book like TEEN TITANS or whatever and then go "man, it's a shame the Society turned Nightwing into a eunuch" or whatnot.
BAYTOR: I read a few of the OYL books. My big complaint is the same I have with virtually every company-wide gimmick. It’s a good gimmick, but not in every frakkin’ book. Instead of making a book jump off the stand, the entire line takes one step forward and you see a huge mass of sameness.
BUZZ MAVERICK (BUZZ): Yeah. That's what's wrong with crossovers. Do each book right. The collective universe will then be in good shape.
BAYTOR: From what I read, there wasn’t a sense that they took full advantage of the time jump and it just felt really forced. You weren’t skipping boring stuff, you were skipping major events, which just seems like the wrong way to do things to me. It doesn't matter if you put out a brilliant Zero issue or a brilliant 1,000,000 issue, because there's a couple of dozen other issues doing the exact same thing at the exact same time that prevents your issue from jumping out on the stands.
SUPERHERO: My response is going to sound pretty crazy on this so just deal with it. I'm still convinced that the whole ONE YEAR LATER thing was really done to give the Superman titles some sense of continuity with the SUPERMAN RETURNS film that came out this past summer at around the same time that the ONE YEAR LATER thing began to hit all of the main books. If you go back and look at the Superman titles that came out at around the time of ONE YEAR LATER you will see that in every issue of the ONE YEAR LATER Superman titles they would have at least three characters saying stuff like, "He's back!" or "It's so good to have him back!" or "He's been gone for so long!"
SQUASHUA: I'm cautious to say that the Superman books benefit from OYL.
SUPERHERO: As far as how the ONE YEAR LATER THING actually worked? Meh. No big deal. To a regular reader like myself it just seemed like business as usual. Same old superhero tales without much of an impact.
SQUASHUA: I think it was more than a little jarring to pretty much every title, and it's a safe bet that not every creator was going to be happy having to wrap up their current plotlines and flush them down the toilet. I think the writers would have been better served with being told to jump their book a year forward at the best place they could *creatively* do so, rather than have a global mandate.
BUG: When I think of ONE YEAR LATER, I think of throwing fish food into a bowl. In my opinion, DC was at its strongest in the week after INFINITE CRISIS ended and OYL began. It was a nice cohesive nugget of a universe, but after OYL everyone seemed to forget talking to each other and working together and scattered into a million directions, like fish food hitting the water and dispersing. Some of the stories from OYL rose to the top, while others ended up as poop strings clinging to the @$$holes of a goldfish.
HUMPHREY: Yeah, it also doesn't help that so many books dropped the ball completely either with going in directions that made no sense (like NIGHTWING) or where the creative teams just failed to drive home things that could potentially be interesting.
SLEAZY: I think TEEN TITANS has done a pretty good job of genuinely shaking up the status quo and cast of the book while simultaneously harkening back to the previous characters and storylines. I love them having Ravager around to keep everybody on edge, and the stuff between Wonder Girl and Robin is really well done too.
SQUASHUA: Nightwing, who hasn't really been involved in anything lately, is getting attention in the interviews and the discussion is starting to sound reminiscent of Quesada talking about Speedball. Someone here has to be a Nightwing fan. I don't follow him. What do you think about the comments from Didio regarding Dick Grayson having been on the editorial chopping block, getting saved, and now being back on that block?
BUG: I'm torn with this issue. I think that Dick Grayson is as much of an icon as Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, but he's been a character that no one knows what to do with. The writers have been searching for a purpose for Grayson for years. Dixon was closest to making Grayson his own man, but everything Dixon built around the character has been destroyed since then. Right now, he's this aimless character...but I'd hate to see him go. I'd rather see something death-like happen to Tim Drake, the current Robin, and have Nightwing slip back into the Batcave as an equal partner (not sidekick) to Batman.
SLEAZY: Oh, come on. What are you, 73? That's a lousy idea, and not just because Tim Drake is the best Robin in the history of Robin. Nightwing as an "equal partner" of Batman? Please. Batman has no equal. Period. Second he does, you might as well kill 'em both cause you've destroyed the character anyway. Nightwing will only ever work if he's his own man, and the more distance from Batman he keeps the better.
BUG: Have you read ROBIN? That book sucks so bad it leaves hickies on your fingers after reading it. Tim Drake hasn’t been an interesting character since Dixon left the series four years ago.
SQUASHUA: And what about Jason Todd? Does his mere presence diminish Dick Grayson, or is he a better foil? Which brings me to another point that I've brought up before: Has anyone noticed the increased number of previously-unaccounted-for polar opposites and teen iterations? TEEN TITANS shoved a bunch down our collective throats a few months ago, but I'm seeing more and more evil Bizarro-esque doubles for heroes than ever before. Is it possible that DC is stealthily building up to a future "event"?
BUG: DC's done this type of thing for as long as I can remember. Every icon has to have a female version, a young sidekick, a character that has replaced them once and is now a sort of outsider, and an evil opposite. It kind of adds to the kitchy charm that I mentioned earlier.

MODERATOR: So some of you like 52, others have dropped it or skipped it altogether. Some followed the OYL stuff and we've commented on that. But what about the two miniseries that started it all, INFINITE CRISIS and IDENTITY CRISIS? Now that we've had a little time to see how it was going to effect the DCU, what do you guys think of INFINITE CRISIS and its fallout? DID anything worthwhile come from it or was it just another overblown event?