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Dear Paramount, RE: Brian Helgeland's Director's Cut of PAYBACK: STRAIGHT UP. From Harry Knowles.
Dear Paramount,
Harry Knowles here. I’ve just seen Brian Helgeland’s cut of PAYBACK. Nearly 9 years ago I saw this cut. I very much remember the fights and rumors that flew around when he was booted from the project and the reshoots came to pass.
Tonight, Brian screened his cut here in Austin to thunderous applause. Not only that, but Brian’s Q&A was legendary, detailing the patience of Job as the entire executive teams at Warner Bros. & Paramount changed, leaving not a single decision maker in place to stop him getting a chance to finally finish the film his way. I applaud the fact that the current Paramount Executive team saw merit in allowing Helgeland to finally finishing his cut. The result is spectacular.
Finally, the film I was crazy about is done.
PAYBACK: STRAIGHT UP – The Director’s Cut isn’t some minor adjustment to sell DVDs – it is a complete overhaul. No Kris Kristofferson, no kidnapped son sub-plot, no boxing match and not any pulled punches. This is a mean sucker punch, gutter dirty, pissed off piece of pulp art! Mel is not “the likable superstar” in this film. He beats the shit out of Deborah Kara Unger in this version, he is straight to the point, no cookie cutter bullshit. This is the way a Parker novel by Donald Westlake should be handled.
The film is leaner and meaner. There are no explosions and needless tacked on gore. This is brutal and hard-nosed… Oh, and IMMENSELY SATISFYING!!!
Here’s the problem though. At this point, according to Helgeland at the screening, the film will most likely end up going to DVD in February or March – with a minor dump into a few theaters here or there.
I completely get how this film from 7 years ago isn’t a big priority. It was a tiny, small budget film from a prior regime – that did its business on DVD. Also – the investment in allowing Brian to finish this cut is also minuscule. I, also completely get that if you just hit this straight to DVD, you’ll make a killing, theoretically.
However, PAYBACK isn’t one of the great Mel Gibson movies in most people’s eyes. It was that Mel flick he did before LETHAL WEAPON 4. The one where he didn’t fight Jet Li. Well… To really get the audience’s attention – I think you’ve got to get this film back on to screens.
This is a radically different film. Better music, better editing, better storytelling and just flat out a great film.
I don’t expect PARAMOUNT to make it a big release. Frankly, I don’t think that would work. However, I really think handing the film over to PARAMOUNT VANTAGE would be an ideal way to treat this tiny crime film the way it ought to be treated, with a team that would help it in a limited release, that built upon the critical acclaim that this cut would receive by critics everywhere.
Word would build and build about this version of the film.
This would also help Paramount to gain the reputation as an artist friendly studio. Helgeland has been punched around too often. First on this film, then manhandled by Tom Rothman on SINEATER – another film that we’ll have to wait however long it takes before Mr. “I don’t make movies, I make Audiences” is running things over there.
Be the heroes of this film’s long ascent out of darkness. It isn’t everyday that a great film emerges from the manhandling of an oppressive regime as the wonderful film it once was. Let folks see the best 70s crime film since the 70s on the big screen like it has never been seen.
Start in 8 cities and let it grow. This is a film that has absolutely earned its second chance. It crawled out of its premature burial to get finished what should have been done ages ago. Now it deserves its days and nights on a theater near everyone out there that has wanted to see a film that earns every second it plays.
And as for all you dear readers. I know Mel isn’t the most popular guy right now, but this isn’t about Mel Gibson, it’s about Brian Helgeland, the writer of L.A. CONFIDENTIAL and his lean mean crime film that didn’t pull a punch. This isn’t a bloated tale with 3 subplots too many. This isn’t a film to make your bladder burst. This is a quick pulpy ride that kicks ass all over it’s fictional play-ground. I truly hope you get the opportunity to see this on the big screen, I did tonight – and I never thought I would. It’s been worth the wait!
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I look forward to this one!
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We have the Paul Schrader cut of Exorcist 2: The beginning. Then we have the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2....and now this. Do we get to look forward to the George Cukor version of Gone with the Wind now? How about the Stuart Townsend version of Aragorn in the LOTR movies? Through the use of computer effects, the 4 days that Stuart Townsend was on the set before being replaced will magically transform him as Aragorn across all 3 movies! See it now as it was originally meant to be!
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This one came totally out of left field! I never knew there was all this turmoil with the film. I have to say, Payback was always a film that never quite hit the mark for me, as much as I enjoyed it...it never helped that it was a redo of the great Point Blank, I like Mel, but he's no Lee Marvin! Great peice Harry, hopefully Paramount will answer the call...otherwise, I really look forward to getting this DVD.
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If this bigoted fuckface ever appears on screen again it'll be too soon. That's never going to happen. PAYBACK was and always will be a piece of shit.
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The gutsiest independent director in modern Hollywood! Hopefully Apocalypto is going to be a smash - and this too, as it sounds radically different... and great!
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I had always thought this Payback was just an okay-ish, lesser Mel Gibson film, but there were always rumours that a super-secret version with extra goodness existed in a vault somewhere. It's good to hear this was real and not a lie. I can understand why Mr Knowles wants to see this at the cinemas, but I'm just glad it's coming out at all. I look forward to seeing this bonus version, now with added better-than-you-thought-it-would-be-ness, when it comes to DVD.
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I don't get why Harry is in such a tizzy about a mid-level Mel Gibson flick that suddenly needs to be brought back to theaters. Nobody cares about directors cuts except us and we're not going to fill that many seats. There's no need to re-release a stiff just 'cause the studio fucked it the first time around.
I'll admit that Ridley Scott's cut of Kingdom of Heaven is way more interesting and dare I say, exciting at 3 hours then Fox's 2 hour theatrical cut was. But let's be honest here, who in their right mind would even think to give that movie another chance? Same with Payback. It's probably a great film, but nobody's gonna go see it. I don't even think the DVD will sell that well. Paramount isn't stupid enough to try and generate interest when there isn't any. Be glad it's out there for the people who are interested. -
You mean, who in their right mind would release a wonderful movie in theaters, since people don't know about it, and there's no point in trying to - I dunno - ADVERTISE it? 'Cause, say, Pirates of the Caribbean got known through WORD OF MOUTH, right? You're basically saying "Who gives a fuck about the general public, a long as I get my DVD". That's elitist fanboy crap, dude. If it's a good movie, it's worth seeing for everyone, and worth having people know about it.
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Hey man, I always wished they'd release this on DVD but figured they wouldn't because they didn't want to piss off Mel Gibson and his hairdresser. I guess things change, huh?
I have a shitty bootleg of some kind of early cut of the movie, which I assume is basically what this is. I actually don't think it's necessarily better, both versions have their plusses and minuses. But obviously it is ridiculous for the director to be screwed over the way he was and have the entire last act of his movie completely changed because the star gets cold feet. So I am happy for Helgeland that he finally gets his version.
On the other hand, I could never figure out what it was Mel was up to. Supposedly he worried about playing such a non-heroic character, but the way he made his character more heroic was the "this little piggy" scene where he gets his toes hammered but doesn't give them the information they want. I don't see that as a big compromise because it's completely in character for the Parker of the books. And it's a brutal scene. People who like the theatrical cut will probaly miss it when they see the director's cut.
Of course, POINT BLANK is a way better movie, but in my opinion PAYBACK is a little more faithful to the character we love from the Richard Stark books. And it's a fun movie. I like it. Too bad it didn't do well so they could do more Parker movies. In the second book he has plastic surgery, so it could be Tom Jane or Ray Liotta or somebody instead of Mel. -
I talked to the "this little-piggy" toe-cutter guy in the flick and he told me all about this cut, and I almost couldn't believe what I was hearing. Wow...interesting, I really want to see it.
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...yet another "I know something you don't know!" article. Uh, how about REVIEWING the new version?? Pointing out the changes and comparing. That's probably too much to hope for. Oh, and by the way, I really loved Moriarty and your's expose on the James Bond franchise and where its at that you both promised like, last APRIL to write. You know, how you were BOTH going to review the CASINO ROYALE script and put in your two cents about the franchise? I guess what we're going to get instead is yet another movie review from you detailing how BADASS Craig and everything is and how HOTT the girls are, and yet another movie review from Moriarty detailing how he was "pleasantly surprised" and how it isn't great and how he wished they would have kept some things from the book, but, its a lot better than he thought it was, especially Craig. Typical for this site nowadays. You used to give US the scoops and rumors, not just HINT at them in your articles.
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...Gibson has always been cool and I personally loved the original cut and thought it was pretty brutal for its time. I'm really looking forward to this release.
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This is very good news indeed, as long as James Coburn is still in it, "That's just mean man".
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Why people aren't capitalising on the current trend for re-cutting movies to stay ore in-line with original director's visions. Not to sound utterly like a capatalist cynic but the studio's are evidently aware that there is a moneymaking possibility in the re-releasing of Director's "original vision" versions. I have to say though, I don't think that many people will want to see these films at the Cinema, theres an apathy with many people towards seeing re-cut versions of movies. I've experienced it with friends and family alike. They either don't notice the differences (when subtle)or they have no interest in seeing another version of a film they didn't particularly like. Myself I rather enjoyed Payback as a neat little character abstraction in Gibson's career, but thought it failed to ultimately deliver the goods storywise. This new cut sounds intriguing.
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The D-cut is REALLY different from what I was told. The bad "guy" was actually a chick that you never saw or something. The dude told me the whole last 30 minutes of the movie was re-shot and changed COMPLETELY. As I recall, the toe-guy said that he was brought in seveal times and didn't know if he was in or out of the movie and it went back and forth. And his scene kept changing...toes come off, toes stay on, toes just get roughed up bit etc. etc. Anyway, he told me alot of shit, and like I said, for some stupid reason I thought he was exagerating the level fighting and changes that took place. I never read the book, so this is the first I've heard of it since then. But yeah....it's WAY different. Thanks Harry
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Oct 21, 2006 5:35:57 AM CDT
FINALLY!!!! I can't believe I'm going to get to see thi
by daddylonghead
s!
I'm happy with it being on DVD. Haha, anybody remember the trailer for the shitty Mel version, with the crazy chick-flick color panels and the wacky music? I remember seeing that preview and going "THAT'S BASED ON A RICHARD STARK NOVEL??!??!?" -
But I must admit it never quite felt totally complete, it was a 'fun revenge flick', but felt a bit hollow too, and I always wanted to see the 'controversial' other cut. And now, looks like I'll finally get that chance, and I very much look forward to seeing this apparently darker and more nihilistic version and how it stacks up against Gibson's release cut when this finally hits. It would be nice if dvd has both cuts on it too, just for completeness' sake. Oh, and yes, Point Blank still rules supreme, and a film based on the second book with Tom Jane in it would kick all kinds of unholy ass. Good call.
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didn't know Helgeland was behind it. He wrote two of my favorite movies, so I guess I need to check this new version out. And to whoever brought it up, it's pretty clear Harry meant that Helgeland wrote the script, not the novel, for L.A. Confidential. Almost every script these days is adapted from a print source.
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didn't know Helgeland was behind it. He wrote two of my favorite movies, so I guess I need to check this new version out. And to whoever brought it up, it's pretty clear Harry meant that Helgeland wrote the script, not the novel, for L.A. Confidential. Almost every script these days is adapted from a print source.
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You're welcome!
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Where are the original cuts of Halloween 6 and Hellraiser 4, at least Payback gets re-edited. I know everyone hates Dimension but come on the producers cut of H6 needs an official release. And the reason why so many directors cut seem to be appearing now is because since test screenings started studios have messed with so many releases. They cut 45 minutes of plot from Event Horizon ruining the only good Paul Anderson film and thats saying something, while allowing king Kong to be an hour too long.
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Why see a terrible remake of a marvelous film that tries to replace a wonderfully iconic actor with a shitty and bigoted one? A minor director (which Helgeland is, A Knight's Tale and that horror movie he did are ample proof) trying to outshine a master is an embarrassment. Just watch Point Blank. A masterpiece starring a legend and directed by a genius. Go ahead, look it up.
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I can remember Harry talking about this cut way back in the day.
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I'll add this to my Netflix "Fingers 'n' Toes" queue with The Hitcher, Darkman, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang... what else?
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The Muslims are the cause of every war in the world! Is this an inflammatory statement? Yes. Is it true? There is NO truth when two religious factions have been at each others' throats for the last 2000 years. Jews may not have caused all the wars in the world, but they sure seem to find a role in them some way shape or form. I absolutely hate anybody who kills to preserve a religious ideal. Respect human life, fuckers. That's like somebody killing another because he doesn't believe 2 + 2 = 5. (Call me naive, but I, personally, never did understand why the Nazis hated the Jews, or why Jews were/are maligned in society. It had more to do the aggressor's prejudices than what the Jews ever did to them.) People do stupid things when they're drunk. Mel was labelled as an Anti-Semite because of Passion, and his statements, I think, were made for the same reason that someone feels compelled to jump when they look over the side of a skyscraper. Its what the public expects from him, and Mel was vulnerable to the power of mob persuasion. Mel's sensibilities are more natural than most actors, and he obviously wears his emotions on his sleeve, which is why we like him in the first place. People do embarrassing things at parties. Hell, my wife made out with a chick at a party last week and the next morning she wanted to hide her head in the sand like an ostrich. Me, I wanted to stick my head somewhere else after the hot lesbo acsh.
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James Coburn steals this film. The suitcase scene in the hallway of his house with his bodyguard and Mel is classic. I hope his part is not cut.
I will say the whole "This little piggy went to market..." with the rock hammer interrogation scene with Kristofferson is pretty damn good, "I'll give you a blood transfusion to keep you alive if I have to." ...But, I understand why they would cut his part completely.
I would love to see this re-cut.
"I told you not to trust me."
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C'mon Harry, if you want us to get excited, give us some details. We've been burned on director's cuts before including the supposedly radically different Daredevil.
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DAMN YOU ROTHMAN!!!
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Seriously.
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That's LOTR with Stuart Townsend.
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There are more than enough Parker novels to start a a viable movie franchise, I want to see a Parker movie that actually has a character named Parker. I can only wonder if one will ever be made.
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Oct 21, 2006 12:21:50 PM CDT
And the REAL reason the Muslims are so pissed off...
by angry white baby
is because of the Nazis... no, seriously. One thing the Nazis did when they occupied the Middle East was spread the innuendo that Jews were not to be trusted and to be blamed for all of societies ills (essentially what the Romans started some 2000 years prior due to the Zealots and all that; ever since then, Jews have been the proverbial scapegoat and punching bag for all problems, regardless of whether they were truly to blame or not... you know, kinda how most of you feel about republicans). In essence what you have is a culture of people who hate the Jews due to propaganda spread from the Germans in the 1930s and 40s and they have forgotten to the point where it has just become a part of their culture and society (remember folks, when it comes to fear and hate, rational thought doesn't play too much of a role here).
Of course, another reason Muslims are so pissed off all the time (or wait to be pissed off) could have something to do with the fact that they live in a hot, humid desert. I am sure that if anyone of us lived in Death Valley for a few generations without air conditioning we would be plenty pissed off too. >:) -
Didn't the Crusades have something to do with Muslims getting pissed off?
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This was just one of those incredible film experiences for me. Not only do I feel lucky for having gone to this with Brian there to talk about the process but he's the kind of person whose integrity, perseverence and artistic vision should inspire us all. One hell of a movie.
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That was the worst part of that movie IMO.
Lucy Lui in domme gear being the best part. -
I don't see how a different 3rd act would work. The plot elements come together so neatly in the theatrical version. James Coburn does almost steal the film. What can I say, the film makes me laugh. It's very entertaining watching Gibson take the syndicate apart. This one is in my "underrated" action film file, right next to "The Edge" and "13th Warrior".
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If this version is universally accepted as better, that would be awesome. Count me in.
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I remember seeing this film and the other lesser seen Gibson film called Ransom. Which was directed by ROn Howard. There was this thing at the time about actors and they held hollywood over a barrell. Directors directed, writers wrote and producer produced. Since the Chaplin days Actors could pretty Much control films if they didnt like it, they could change any aspect they wanted. But they no power to fire the director.Gibson changed all that as did Ed norton on AMerican history ex. Norton Fired Tony Kaye and took control of the film himself. Tony Kaye has not made a film since. That is whay on film poster you some times have a box with the directors name on it. That means Brian Hegeland got a credit for but not much else. He wrote the story which Gibson thought would ruin his image as a family man. Gibson tried to make script changes but but hegeland would and being that Icon hired him, icon fired him. Gibosn directed the movie himself.
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So does 99% of the world and I don't see you bitching about them all the time. Everyone hates SOMETHING! I despise people who park too close to me and always key their cars. I also irrationally hate anyone who lives in a trailer. If you live in a trailer, you're scum. GET IT??? SCUM!!! However, I would like to see this film, because I've heard so much about it. I'm glad it's getting a release. Because, I love the Parker novels and wish they would all get adapted. But, one thing I could give a fuck about is the goddamn personal feelings and predjudices of the people making them! WHO GIVES A FUCK???? It's like all you cunts who actually care that Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Aniston broke up. WHO GIVES A SHIT??? Vaughn could fuck monkeys while eating babies dressed up in little Hitler outfits and I WOULD STILL GO SEE A FUCKING MOVIE HE PLAYED IN IF IT WAS GOOD!!! All I care about is the movies, all the other shit can go straight to hell.
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So much pointless anger...
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No one's been kicked in the nuts by studios and execs more than PATRICK READ JOHNSON. Getting thr boot from his baby DRAGONHEART for starters and signing on to ANGUS 'cos he loved the gay father (played by Dr Giggles) character only being forced to cut the entire arc out of the flick!
Give us the ANGUS: DIRECTOR'S CUT! -
starring one of hollywoods biggest stars and having a 50 million dollar budget?
yea, real small. it did 80 million in the US, not a small film at all Harry. -
IT WAS 100 MINUTES LONG!
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I haven't watched that cut in years so I forget what the big caper was at the end (I think maybe a money exchange on a subway?), but the main difference I remember is that the head of the outfit is Angie Dickinson, who you never see, you just hear her voice on the phone. Kris Kristofferson is not in the movie at all, he was added in in reshoots. So you can see that while they are radically different, the bastardized version is not a total wash. I love his part.
I don't agree with whoever it was saying Mel Gibson was supposed to "replace" Lee Marvin. Although it has Angie Dickinson as a nod to POINT BLANK it's clearly not a remake. Both are based on the same book and neither are all that faithful. How do you know Mel is replacing Lee and not Robert Duvall (The Outfit) or Jim Brown (The Split) or Peter Coyote (Slayground)? Different guys can play Parker, especially since he always has a different name in every movie. Lee Marvin is definitely the best of all of them, but still not the definitive Parker if you ask me, since his version was much more emotional than the Parker of the books. I think POINT BLANK is one of the greatest badass pictures of all time, but there's still plenty room in the world for a PAYBACK or two. -
Mel Gibson poisioned a woman (Lucy Liu? Deborah Karen Unger?) who thought she was poisioning him, replete with a lame flashback to Mel switching the cup? I remembering seeing a movie around that time (late 1990s) where that happened...if it's not PAYBACK, can anybody help a brother out?
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Why? Because Mel Gibson is in it. I saw the theatrical cut of Payback on TV about a year ago, and I enjoyed what I saw. I like Helgeland's work and was always curious about his version, but really, none of this matters... their leading man has completely blown his credibility, and he doesn't deserve to win it back after a few calculated, well-publicized apologies. On basic principle, I will not be seeing this movie, and I can guarantee you that many others like me feel the same way... this guy does not deserve our hard earned $$$ or any residuals.
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I saw this screening. Harry was right down the row. Anyways...It IS way more dark and violent. The Bello story still doesn't gel but is nowhere as LAME as the Gibson cut. Honestly, there were some things in the theatrical cut I did like. But this is a cooler version. And stays true to the sort of 70's revenge flick it's supposed to be. The coolest thing though was Helgeland's Q and A. He was this great, funny unassuming guy. It was obviously a painful experience but he was candid about it. He said he had to wait until everyone at Paramount was gone. Then they didn't care what he did. So they let him recut it. BUT Gibson had to sign off since Icon was involved. He dragged his feet getting to Mel. But Robert Rodriguez prodded him to do it. He sent Mel an email. And Mel said ok. And that Jews suck. Just kidding. By the way, Mel is awesome in the movie. Anti Semite or not. Anyhow...They let BH cut it BUT everytime he needed some money (and he never needed much) to fix something, such as Sally Kellerman replacing Dickinson as the voice, it would take three weeks to get an answer and get the dough. Brian said it was one battle after another. But he did it. He got his movie back. And then he said the coolest thing of the night. He said:"it's like I went back for my 70 grand." And everybody clapped. Just like Parker (or Porter) somebody took something from him. And even if nobody cared. He did. And he got it. Enjoy, kids. Also, if you're curious what's back, theres a fairly accurate rundown in the imdb alternate versions. The action scene at the Oakwood arms they mention was not in the version screened last night.
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Realize that this is the same guy that wrote the screenplay for The Postman, A Knight's Tale, and The Order (as well as directed the latter two). I'll give him credit for writing the scripts for Man on Fire and LA Confidential, but let's not pretend that this guy is the greatest filmmaker that ever lived.
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Even though I really liked the first version as well.
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The discovered the bodies 51,000 of people who were DISBABLED. On a program last night which was first screened on German tv in 2000 a german man made the following which is worth bearing in mind. Hitler Hated, the German people, jews were not the only people who were exterminated. the disabled, the gyspies, homosexuals, communists and bolshevicks were all considered un german and therefore were eliminated. I wonder what bush will say when he hears that in China in 2006 , they are actively burning down and demolishing christians churchs and arresting christians for praying to God anyone who saw the report on sky news in the UK, should be rightly disturbed by this stuff. time to rethink the 2008 games? no....
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What the hell does all that have to do with the DC of "Payback"?
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and your "Mel's not getting a dime of my money now!", obviously little bitches whose primary role model is their grandma. Get off your fucking high horse. Real movie fans shouldn't give a shit if Mel Gibson is a bigot, Roman Polanski likes to play with little boys, or that Jack Nicholson funds most of Columbia with his drug habit. Just watch the goddamn movies, bitches.
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Stick to beat him with. They have a clear pc agenda. fuck it these are the times we are living. We cannot seem to enjoy things anymore, without people telling us how we should watch something(x-3 anyone?). I am glad as film fan that studios are putting out definitive versions of films on DVD. I have seen this payback once, I have no desire to see it again. Lucy Liu, though damn, you can whip my ass anytime. Sometimes the most interesting stories happen behind the scenes.
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I do appreciate the fact that Gibson seems to be remorseful and has expressed a desire to make good. These gestures do matter, and yes, a person who is genuinely sorry for doing something wrong should be given a second chance. But I still don't feel comfortable giving this guy my dough... his views are just so clearly opposite my own, that it wouldn't sit right with me morally. People have been saying that none of this matters, that only the movies count, but on some level, content is important... the values of the filmmakers do impact the films themselves... and our decision to finance certain films allows certain people to stay in the business, able to make any statements (filmed or otherwise) that they want. A discerning film viewer (that is, someone who actually takes the act of watching a film seriously) should know when and where to draw the line. That being said, I do wish Gibson the best in conquering his personal demons.
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He just really, really likes Gentiles...
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anyway, i enjoyed the theatrical version, but i always new it was missing something, that's what always kept me from buying it, even for five bucks..............plus, if gibson does hate jews, why has her worked with joel silver so much?
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And you guys think you're film buffs...Brian Helgeland is one of the best writers out there along with Shane Black and yet, they have to battle the suits to get a dynamic film made. When "Bladerunner" came out it wasn't a commercial success. Then when they showed the director's cut at the Beverly Theater, people went apeshit! Now its considered a classic. Good for Helgeland that he's finally getting his film out the way it should have been seen. I still say Curtis Hanson and Helgeland should have done the "Black Dahlia." At least it would have still been in the theaters. The problem with Hollywood is, is that they want quantity and not quality. They blame internet piracy and the back market for losing "billions" of dollars. No, its not that. Make a decent film and people will pay for it. They're tired of shit or the same old retred movie with the standard five major stars in the lead. When movies were craeted in the thirties, forties and fifties, the people that wrote, directed and produced them were educated and READ BOOKS. Now we have preponderance of tv babies running the show that don't know jack! Its clear that Brian Helgeland loves movies and that his passion for directing and writing show in his director's cut of "Payback." There should be more film makers like him in charge.
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Damn Jews. Payback is going to be a bitch. You tried to destroy Mel over Passion of the Christ so of course he internalized all that anger then two years later he gets drunk drives on PCH in Malibu gets pulled over and naturally blames you Jews for starting all the wars in the world. Well it's true! Mel had been watching TV news about the Israeli slaughter of innocent Lebanese civilians and he said what he had been thinking for the past two years. And now it's Payback time! All new scenes are going to be filmed directed by Mel himself in which Porter beats the living shit out of Rabbi Marvin Hier and Abe Foxman and Frank Rich and every other no good dirty damn Jew who ever said anything bad about Mel! This new version will make a fortune I tell you a fortune! And if the Jews protest it they'll get the shit beaten out of them again in Payback 2: Attack of the Jews!
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I can't wait for this to turn up in Australia. While i have no love for Mel after the anti-semitism/one true faith/interferring with both this film and Wenders Million Dollar Hotel-things, I'm very happy for Helgeland that this cut has finally happened.
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all this backstory crap about kicking the director out and doing re-shoots and a different cut. I'd be interested to see what it was supposed to be. I liked Payback. I bought it previously viewed from Blockbuster on VHS. Should I feel ashamed?
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Oct 23, 2006 12:01:22 AM CDT
morgenes it was a young girl that Polanski fiddled with
by regicidal_maniac
not "little boys" semantics I know. Anyway Payback is actually one of my favourite films so it will be interesting to see if this 'new' version pleases me as much as the 'fucked with' version. If it does great. By the way Mel's outburst about Jews shouyld never have been the story, people say stupid shit when their drunk whoi gives a fuck if he hates Jews or not? The real issue is that he was drunk behind the wheel at the time, drink driving is a very serious and criminal offence. That and only that should be the issue.
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What happened to Angie Dickinson? Why did they get rid of her? And how is changing Angie Dickinson to Kris Kristofferson to Sally Kellerman the greatest thing that ever happened but Greedo shooting Jabba or whatever ruined your lives so you could never be intimate again? I'm confused about this.
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That should have read: "By the way Mel's outburst about Jews should never have been the story, people say stupid shit when they're drunk, who gives a fuck if he hates Jews or not? The real issue is that he was drunk behind the wheel at the time, drink driving is a very serious and criminal offence. That and only that should be the issue."
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I want this guy to get fired or just get out of movies, period.
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Hate on Freemasons. Seriously, those fuckers rule the world.
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I wish Southpark would address this and put closure on it. Once they rape a popular water cooler subject it becomes unnecessary for the masses to because they'll never top whatever Eric Cartman does/says.
I mean what are people so afraid of anyway? Everyone going, "wait a tick, they do seem to be a major player in every big war!". We already know that folks, and we love you anyway. Especially your women when you're not at home. So the man went a little bongo and yelled it at some cops...it sure as shit ain't a big deal. No worse then when a Jewish guy gets his car stolen and is waiting with fingers crossed that the cops arrest the black guy who did it. You'd have to get one pretty drunk to admit to doing that though. -
Seriously...wtf?
Here it is again and if it double posts...blame the system and the man...
I wish Southpark would address this and put closure on it. Once they rape a popular water cooler subject it becomes unnecessary for the masses to because they'll never top whatever Eric Cartman does/says.
I mean what are people so afraid of anyway? Everyone going, "wait a tick, they do seem to be a major player in every big war!". We already know that folks, and we love you anyway. Especially your women when you're not at home. So the man went a little bongo and yelled it at some cops...it sure as shit ain't a big deal. No worse then when a Jewish guy gets his car stolen and is waiting with fingers crossed that the cops arrest the black guy who did it. You'd have to get one pretty drunk to admit to doing that though. -
best site evre
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P.S. Yeah Screw the Freemasons!! ;P
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whether or not Gibson is an antisemite. It makes a difference in the respectability and for the conscientious viewer, the enjoyability of the work. Gibson's comments cannot be viewed as a drunken outburst as their is obviously a history of antisemitism in his family, stemming from his father who has made his own violently antizionist antisimetic remarks. To judge this "outburst" as a freak occurence in view of his family history and personal history is foolish. It is perfectly reasonable, looking at Gibson's track record, to believe that he has a psycholological problem with regards to jewish people. He may not be proud of this. That is perhaps why it takes a fifth of whiskey to bring it out of him.
Supposing that he is a bigot and a racist, how can you appreciate him as an artist? A true artist does not lie through his art and producing a work detailing the life of the most tolerant, accepting, kind and unbigoted human being in the history of the world while
harboring and perhaps inflaming an inner hatred of the race from which he came, seems to me to be at least dishonest. It is also objectionable.
Oh, and the freemasons are terrifying. -
That's the only cut of THE HUNTER that I need to see.
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then we'll be treated to more fresh and original ideas from La La Land, instead of needless remakes, cookie-cutter films, unfaithful adaptations or bad remakes of imports(Yes, you Scorcese)
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Stanley was screwed on his cut of DUST DEVIL, then got the shaft from ISLAND OF DR MOREAU(which was poorly rewritten/butchered form Stanley's original script, not to mention suffered from Val Kilmer's egotism)
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Stanley was screwed on his cut of DUST DEVIL, then got the shaft from ISLAND OF DR MOREAU(which was poorly rewritten/butchered from Stanley's original script, not to mention suffered from Val Kilmer's egotism)
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Anybody recall Mel reciting from The Merchant of Venice in The Man Without A Face? Of all the passages in all the Shakespeare that Mel could choose to include in his directorial debut, he goes with a little monologue in which a Jew effectively pleads for equality. He's obviously a bright guy, not a bigot. Maybe Mel's drunken rant was a reaction to all the Jewish Hollywood financiers who tried to blacklist him for the Passion of the Christ. Which by the way, didn't seem overtly Anti-Semitic until one line got misinterpreted and challenged. So to everybody saying fuck Mel, fuck his movies, etc, etc, do yourself a favor. You should probably go see Apocalypto instead of buying another ticket for Saw 3. The man is a gifted filmmaker and you don't know shit about his personal life.
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Anybody recall Mel reciting from The Merchant of Venice in The Man Without A Face? Of all the passages in all the Shakespeare that Mel could choose to include in his directorial debut, he goes with a little monologue in which a Jew effectively pleads for equality. He's obviously a bright guy, not a bigot. Maybe Mel's drunken rant was a reaction to all the Jewish Hollywood financiers who tried to blacklist him for the Passion of the Christ. Which by the way, didn't seem overtly Anti-Semitic until one line got misinterpreted and challenged. So to everybody saying fuck Mel, fuck his movies, etc, etc, do yourself a favor. You should probably go see Apocalypto instead of buying another ticket for Saw 3. The man is a gifted filmmaker and you don't know shit about his personal life.
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Anybody recall Mel reciting from The Merchant of Venice in The Man Without A Face? Of all the passages in all the Shakespeare that Mel could choose to include in his directorial debut, he goes with a little monologue in which a Jew effectively pleads for equality. He's obviously a bright guy, not a bigot. Maybe Mel's drunken rant was a reaction to all the Jewish Hollywood financiers who tried to blacklist him for the Passion of the Christ. Which by the way, didn't seem overtly Anti-Semitic until one line got misinterpreted and challenged. So to everybody saying fuck Mel, fuck his movies, etc, etc, do yourself a favor. You should probably go see Apocalypto instead of buying another ticket for Saw 3. The man is a gifted filmmaker and you don't know shit about his personal life.
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I liked this film and think the Edge is under-rated…13th Warrior though? Gotta depart from you there… I am still trying to forget I watched that one…
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Funny thing is the people that can’t bear to watch Gibson because he’s such a hater….hate Gibson -and usually seem to hate Christians too- not that that is personal to me- it’s just personally funny. Also, I love how this same crowd often sits there and can’t get over some drunk dude’s rantings (Like we all haven’t said brutal stuff when we were shitfaced), yet when some Middle Eastern dude gets up and says all the Jews should be eradicated…and is serious…or worse actually tries to blow them up- these same “enlightened” folk who so often act like its the Jews fault for being in Palestine….yeah that’s it… sure…
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I liked this film and think the Edge is under-rated…13th Warrior though? Gotta depart from you there… I am still trying to forget I watched that one…
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I liked this film and think the Edge is under-rated…13th Warrior though? Gotta depart from you there… I am still trying to forget I watched that one…
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Sorry for the triple posts
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Isn't a bad film at all. Its just not amazing, its still good fun if taken for what it is. (Thats assuming you're not a retard and could understand that its supposed to have taken him several months and not 2 evenings to have learned Norse.)
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I've always dug Payback as is but I'm still curious about how another take on would be. And I'd love to see the rumored extended cut of 13th Warrior as well. Good point about the Norse thing btw Kizeesh. I've seen alot of butt-holes make that mistake on these boards.
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will all have directors Cuts on DVD. one exception though. the 5 and a half hour version of apocalypse now will never be released.
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the internet vversion of the black hole. We know its there, we now it exists. but messages go in and and are never seen again.
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...but this sounds great! How many films out there get fucked up in this way? Who knew?
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Really? You didn't learn about Nazis and the Holocaust in high school? You should have... but they probably didn't cover Mel Gibson. He's accused of being racist... because he's racist. He was RAISED racist, so one could argue that this isn't entirely his fault, but by his own admission, he has trouble... not being racist.
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Go on Mel!
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both a point and a great screen name. The only real issue is Mel was driving drunk. He can believe there is an alien star map tattooed on Donald Rumsfeld's ass for all I care as long as he makes entertaining movies and doesn't drive drunk. Now had he advocated pedophilia or genocide or something along those lines, then I can see being upset. He was drunk, he was talking shit like drunk people do, AND HE WAS DRIVING DRUNK. You want to be mad at him, don't be made for talking shit while drunk. WE (anyone who has been drunk) HAVE ALL DONE IT. "Dude, I said what?" Even in status and class conscious Japan they ignore what drunk people say. The lowest man on the kiretsu totem pole can say the bosses wife smells like a dead carp and get away with it if he was drunk and later apologized. But Mel was a dick for driving loaded and actually risking peoples lives, yezzir.
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The original was fantastic. I actually thought it was one of Mel Gibson's best movies, so I am worried about this re-edit. I know Harry says it is great, but to be quite honest, it seems he says everything is great, so I don't really take his word anymore. I guess I will have to see for myself.
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But I did feel it could have been more violent. I went to see this movie in a bad mood wanting to blow off steam, and the theatrical version left me wanting.
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It's been a while but I think nobody replied to your post. That movie was CONFESSIONS OF A DANGEROUS MIND. Sam Rockwell was the poisoner and Julia Roberts was the poisonee. (Spoiler)
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Go fuck yourself.
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Did you get that five disc boxed set of "Dust Devil" that Subversive Cinema's selling? Now *that's* how you treat a cult film...
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I would prefer not to know if Mel Gibson is anti-semitic. I liked his movies, I liked him as a Hollywood personality.
But I DO know. And this is something I have to think about every time I see one of his movies.
This didn't come out of a vaccuum. If Tom Hanks was arrested for DUI and he said "Hey sugar tits, are you a Jew?", he would apologize for making a stupid joke while drunk and life would go on. Tom Hanks has no history with bigotry. But Mel does, with his father, with comments he has made before and after this incident.
I would never suggest that anyone else boycott Mel Gibson, or not see one of his movies. If you want to see his movies, go right ahead, it doesn't make you a bigot.
People are absolutely right...there are coke fiends out there, and Roman Polanski, and all other manner of whack-jobs. I care about the Mel Gibson issue because I am Jewish.
But I'll just say this. HE's MEL FUCKING GIBSON! How bad can it be? How much are Jews holding him back and ruining his life? He's MEL FUCKING GIBSON!!!!!!! He's someone that most Americans would trade lives with in an instant. How deep does the need for a scapegoat run?
It's just ignorance.
And for GUYLOMBARDO...."And I love Mel - always will. He's got the balls to speak, unlike so many people who have been trained no to."
Why don't you have the balls to say what you want to say? Don't hide behind Mel. -
Guess that one went over my head. Was that coz Jesus was Jewish and he dies in the end? OOPS! sorry - SPOILER ALERT!! DISREGARD THAT BIT ABOUT JESUS!
Seriously tho, you're all a bunch of hypocritical wankers. Show of hands, who can honestly say they are not racist in the least tiny little bit, not one iota, never had a racist thought in all your life!
Anyone?
Anyone?
If I say the word "terrorist" and you think Middle East, you're out. Or Irish, for that matter. Or Greek, or South American. Ever used words like "wog" or "nip" or "Chinaman" or "nigger" and if you were quoting that still counts.
Ever feel uneasy about those dark-skinned guys walking past you on the street? Can you tell an Indian from a Sri Lankan from a Pakistani? Ever feel a little alienated by your Jewish colleagues?
OK maybe none of these things apply to you and you've got your hand up. Ever put the word "the" in front of a racial description? Like, say "the Jews" or "the French" or "the Japs" - guess what?
We are ALL racist! It is a part of HUMAN NATURE! Get over yourselves!
If you don't want to watch a Mel Gibson film that's fine. He's crap. He hasn't made a decent flick since the first Lethal Weapon. Tell it like it is - he sucks as a producer, not great as a director, very limited as an actor.
Don't give me this "oh but he hates Jews" crap!
Glass houses. Stones. Let's not get these two together...
btw I heard the story about how Payback got screwed by it's star - it's a birrova case study - but the way I heard it, it was never gonna live up to Point Blank anyway...
Peace -
I just saw the movie this weekend on TV and I've always wondered how Helgeland's version would look like in it's completed format! Yeah, get it released on the big screen!
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I just saw the movie this weekend on TV and I've always wondered how Helgeland's version would look like in it's completed format! Yeah, get it released on the big screen!
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I don't hate people because of their race. I hate them because of what they do. Like Jehovah's Witness'. I friggin hate 'em for knocking on my door when I'm trying to watch a DVD. Republicans, I hate'em for favoring the rich and acting like everyone who isn't rich and Christian is stupid. Neither of those are races. Therefore I am not racist.... you are!
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Then they must like Democrats, because the richest folks in DC are your elected Democrat representatives. Ba-dumdum! Foo. Republicans favor the rich and Democrats don't? If that's what you think, you are stupid. Or don't pay attention and drink the Kool-Aid while they take your money and promise they'll give it back to you . . . in the form of farm subsidies . . . that all go to multimillion dollar "agriculture" companies. BTW, you should be down with Gibson. His anti-Jewish shtick has also include a lot of Bush bashing, so he hates Bush and the Jews. Give him a kiss.
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Is that the Mel Gibson movie where he goes bananas over 60,000 dollars or something? And do I remember James Coburn being in there somewhere?
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It's been announced that this cut of the movie is going to be available on DVD on April 10th. Go here:
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/payback.html -
writes Parker novels. Yes, I know Donald Westlake is Richard Stark. But it is Richard Stark, not Westlake, who writes the Parker novels. Stark is a better writer than Westlake (don't get me wrong-- I like Westlake's comedic writing but I _love_ the Parker novels). It was Stark, not Westlake, who wrote the screenplay for THE GRIFTERS. Stephen Frears even wanted Westlake to use Stark's name in the credits instead of his own. Richard Stark rules crime fiction!
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again... sigh!
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http://klmartin.wordpress.com/2007/03/29/music-instruments-aduio-equipment-for-15-the-cost-in-3days/#respondhttp://klmartin.wordpress.com/2007/03/29/music-instruments-aduio-equipment-for-15-the-cost-in-3days/#respond
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i just watched the directors cut of payback on my Toshiba DLP projector,and wow let me tell you its like night and day between the theatrical cut and the directors cut. what a great difference.
if you havent seen it allready, spend the 12.00 it cost at most retailers to pick this up or better yet do it the way i did and get the box set that also has braveheart and we were soilders included in it. i picked up the boxset at walmart for 16.88 you cant beat that price for 3 movies.
harry is right they should have released this again via a small rerealease on the big screen, the small screen just doesnt do this cut justice, iam so glad i have my DLP projector. -
...again!
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Lets play.... with your mum! You go first then I'll go... last!
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Bum breath...
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oh wait....
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indeed here
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what do you think?
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the guy with the blue backpack at the end of Payback straight up,looked
like Eric Bana.But was it him,anyone know?Imdb cant give an answer since
the caracter is not listed. -
What brought this up? Sorry about the temporal anomaly Quintus_Arrius
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