Hey there, Faithful Talkbackers Ambush Bug here from AICN Comics. He’s had his personal life broadcast for all to see on MTV, written scores of independent and mainstream comics, and has been the source of adoration and ire of many a comic book fan. The entire @$$hole team came up with fifty or so questions for Mr. Judd Winick and he was nice enough to answer them all. Let’s get right into it, shall we?
BUG: What was the first comic book you remember reading?
JUDD: You know all us comic folks get asked that one all the time, right? I always have multiple answers because it’s sort of a blur. I’ve been “reading” comics since before I could read, so it’s more about the ones that HIT me at the time. Which were:
HULK TREASURY, which was one of those massive magazine sized treasuries.
X-MEN 126 with Proteus (and if you ever look at that issue you’ll see that it’s a totally confusing and a fucked up jumping on point for a 9 year old, but I was hooked).
ACTION COMICS 500 which was this massive issue where Superman went to the opening of the Superman museum. It was a huge superman origin issue.
Lastly there were 3 issues of Superman where SUPERBOY comes to attack Supes.
BUG: Do you find these first comics to be influential in the way you write comics today?
JUDD: Yeah, I do. X-MEN hooked me right there and I’d keep reading Both Claremont and Byrne for the rest of my life. I learned how to draw by copying Byrne art out comics. I was a fairly obsessed Byrne fan growing up. Nothing gave a bigger thrill than when he got to draw a double sized issue, or had other heroes make guest appearances. It greatly influenced my style of drawing, and is really a big part of my childhood. I even did a 25 foot super hero mural on the wall of the Jr. high School. It was X-men, Alpha Flight, and a giant She-Hulk right in the middle. All ripped off Byrne art.
And the Superman ACTION 500, and the Superboy/Superman story also really hit me. There’s some characterization in ACTION 500 that I still talk about, and think about. Superman was in the museum and they’d come upon a statue of Krypto, and Superman seems to be a bit moved. Lana comments on how he seems to be getting choked up about a dog, Lois puts her in her place (Lana was written as the bitch at the time) but Supes waxes a bit about the feeling he had when Krypto crash landed on earth. How he wasn’t alone anymore. That someone else knows the feeling of bullets bouncing off live flesh. Now, to step back from it, the whole thing is a bit silly. This is flying man talking about this flying dog. But I remember being moved by it then. It still works now.
I guess what I’m saying is that even the most outlandish aspects of these characters we write can be defined, grounded and made more personal by finding that small human aspect in them. In this case, Supes really loved his dog.
BUG: Can you crack open the vault and let us know a little bit about your writing process?
JUDD: HA! It’s not much of process. In a perfect world, I get to THINK on stories a bit. Basically that I have an idea and hopefully I have the luxury of letting it roll around in my head for awhile. That “while “ can be days, weeks, or even years. Case in point, I’ve been working on a TV show pitch for the last few days. In the back of my head I’ve been kicking around the next issue of SHAZAM. I knew a month ago what this issue would be, but now the writing of it is looming so, I’ve been thinking about it specifically. The scene, the dialogue, the action. So, I’ll write it on Monday and Tuesday. It’ll only take me 2 days. That’s not bragging, it’s just how it works for me. William Goldman, screenwriting legend, tells a story about writing the screenplay for BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID. He wrote it in 2 weeks. And when he tells people that they usually flip, “TWO WEEKS!? That’s ALL. ” Sure, “ Goldman would reply, “ but I thought about it for 5 years.”
I was thinking about a TV show idea for about 2 years. I told people about it, pitched some friends, everyone was always lukewarm on the idea. Anyway, I finally sat down and wrote the pilot script. It took about 5 days. 2 years of prep, one week of work.
BUG: Do you have any special rituals you perform to prepare to write?
JUDD: Well, I sleep most of the day. When I finally am up and around, which is usually in the late afternoon, I’ll watch my stories and start drinking. By nightfall I’m pretty well liquored up and pissed off so, THEN, it’s time to do some writing. I have a shed out back of the house and it’s just me, a bare light bulb, my laptop and a wave of amphetamines. I just plunk down and let it all just fly out. Sometimes I don’t quite hit the mark. Like an issue of GREEN LANTERN I handed in a few years back was basically just all the lyrics on Zeppelin’s HOUSES OF THE HOLY. It read pretty well, but it sort meandered continuity-wise.
Kidding…
The truth is less interesting. I drink hot tea by the gallon and listen to some music in the background. If I get stuck I take my laptop and go to a coffee shop and do the same thing. The change of scenery sometimes does the trick. Actual writing can not be done in the exciting fashion of a Hunter Thompson or a Hemingway. Well, I guess it can, but they both wound up shooting themselves so my way might be the better route for now.
BUG: Do you change these rituals depending on what comic you're writing at that particular time?
JUDD: No. I think about ‘em. I get some tea. I sit my ass down and write. The ONLY exception is that BARRY WEEN is written in long hand and not typed. That’s because I draw the stories and I’ll make a ton of sketchy visual notes for myself.
BUG: Any musical preferences while writing?
JUDD: Motion Picture Soundtracks. The instrumental kind. They fill the room. I will say that a few years back I read an interview with Joe Kelly where he mentions that he’ll put on some rocking stuff when writing action scenes. So, I tried it and you know, fucking A if it doesn’t work. I don’t think I wrote any better, but it made it a lot more fun. So, MAD UPS to Joe.
BUG: Who's your favorite musician?
JUDD: Tom Waits, Elvis Costello, Randy Newman and Joe Jackson. The four horsemen of my apocalypse. But To be honest, I listen to a lot of music. A lot. I’m truly a sucker for the entire pop punk movement. I really dig FALL OUT BOY and PANIC AT THE DISCO. And one of my absolute favorites is a band called ME FIRST AND THE GIMME GIMMES. They’re a splinter group of a bunch of other punk bands, and the just do fast, loud, covers of pop tunes, and they give me more happiness than I can describe. If you’ve never heard ME FIRST perform the Jackson 5’s I’LL BE THERE you’ve never heard nothing.
BUG: Favorite movie?
JUDD: Well, that’s long list. There’s movie that are purely populist classics that I’m right in there with everyone else. Star Wars, JAWS, Godfather. Standard geek fare of SUPERMAN and I adored LORDS OF THE RINGS. ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF THE APES is my favorite PLANET OF THE APES movie. But off the beaten path:
RAISING ARIZONA
THE BIG LEBOWSKI
BASQUIAT
THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION
BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID
TOY STORY
MY NEIGHBOR TOTORO
NETWORK ( MORE fucking relevant today than ever)
FIGHT CLUB
MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON
Sidebar on Mr. Smith. I LOVE Frank Capra, and I adore this movie. Right down to the ending. SPOILER ALERT: This is a movie that is SO full of heart, so full of passion, that the ending, the BIG finale, is that the bad guy is so overcome with how much he’s crushed the spirit of Jimmy Stewart’s Mr. Smith, that he steps into the next room of the senate floor and tries to blow his brains out. It destroys me. I LOVE this film.
I could go on, but I’ll leave it at that
BUG: Describe the evolution from Judd Winick: writer of indy sensations BARRY WEEN and PEDRO AND ME to Judd Winick: mainstream writer extraordinaire on books like GREEN ARROW, THE NEW OUTSIDERS and TRIALS OF SHAZAM!
JUDD: Is that a polite way of asking how I possibly made that jump? It’s all about Bob Schreck. Here’s the true and embarrassing story, and I’ve never told the whole thing publicly:
I was at the San Diego Comic con in 1997 ( maybe ’96). Professionally I was doing my comic strip FRUMPY THE CLOWN, and it was running in a few dozen newspapers. I was/am a huge comic fan and wanted to check out the con, so I made up a few ashcan zines of my strips and went to check the whole thing out. Kevin Smith was signing at a booth. This is just after CHASING AMY and right when ONI PRESS was launching its line and it was gonna start with a ONI DOUBLE and the CLERKS comic. Anyway, I was gonna get a signature from Smith and with the hope, as it had happened before quite recently with other celebs, that he’d recognize me from moments as a reality television whore and we'd get have a meaningful exchange. It had happened before, I’m not a proud man, but I like getting to talk to people I’d admire and the REAL WORLD sometimes got that done.
Anyway, Smith did not know me, even when I pathetically dropped what I thought was a hint for him to inscribe the copy of the CLERKS/CHASING AMY script collection to “ Pam and Judd”. No dice. He did make the joke inside, “To Pam and Judd. Who gets the book if you break up?”
Anyway, no dice with Kevin, but Bob Schreck was standing ten feet away, I said “hi” and HE had watched the fucking REAL WORLD and we got to talking. In short, Bob read the ashcan of Frumpy strips, asked if I’d do a strip for the inside cover on ONI DOUBLE FEATURE, and we became friends. About a year later I gave Bob copy of the first or second draft of PEDRO AND ME and Bob was enormously supportive. He said that in all due respect to my comic strips, “THIS is the kind of storyteller you are.” He pushed me to do a fiction piece, which I did, a story called ROAD TRIP, it ran in ONI DOUBLE FEATURE, and I got an Eisner nomination. That lead to BARRY WEEN under the masterful editorial gaze of Joe Nozemack and Jamie Rich. THEN Bob went to DC Comics. And apparently everyone he ever met called to find a gig but me. Then Bob gave me a call, “Where’s YOUR super hero pitch, man?” “
“Ah, I didn’t want to seem like a dick…”
Anyway, Bob pressed me and I gave a few submissions that were making the rounds when Ron Marz told Bob that he wanted to finish his run on GREEN LANTERN. Bob offered me a 6 issue “audition” that lasted 3 years.
I owe it to Bob. He’s the man.
BUG: Has the foul-mouthed (but very cartoony-lookin') BARRY WEEN ever fallen into kiddie hands? Any parents ever jump on you for tainting their kids' minds with it?
JUDD: Maybe twice. I got a few letters. Mostly comic store owners know to put it in the adult section. Still Barry Ween is mostly about the language, not sex or violence or gore. I actually hear about a lot of parents (dads mostly) who read it with their sons. BARRY WEEN also wound up on the American Library Association list for graphic novels. Go figure, BARRY WEEN in libraries.
BUG: Where do we stand with seeing more of the "Winick of old"? Are we going to see more BARRY WEEN anytime in the future?
JUDD: Shit, I hope so. It’s a time issue. I do it all myself. Write, draw, letter. It takes months, and I don’t have that kind of time at the moment. I’m writing 3 monthlies, producing an animated TV show, and I have a wife and baby who I like to see occasionally. BUT, someday our foul mouthed prince will return.
BUG: You created and produce a series on Cartoon Network called THE LIFE & TIMES OF JUNIPER LEE. One of our AICN @$$hole reviewers, Buzz Maverik, tells me it's pretty good.
JUDD: And please send Buzz my great thanks. I think he has superb taste and is anything but an @$$hole.
BUG: What can you tell us about the new season of JUNIPER LEE?
JUDD: that’s it’s the best we’ve done yet. We’ve gotten better at it. The characters are more fully developed, the stories are more complicated. Everybody has KILLED themselves this season. We have hundreds of characters, hundreds of backgrounds, and just a ton to do. The more complex the storytelling, the more work. We treat it like we’re doing a 30 minute feature film, not a TV show. I hope people dig it. We do.
BUG: How involved are you with this cartoon and what's your relationship with Cartoon Network like?
JUDD: I created it, it’s my show, I’m the executive producer. I’m the boss, for good or for bad. I work on it every day. Stories, character designs, storyboards, audio recording, editing, music, sound fx’s….
But anyone with brains and talent knows they should find other people with MORE brains and talent. I’ve tried to fill the crew with the most talented people I could find. I’ve succeeded.
BUG: Are you interested in creating any more animated series?
JUDD: Yes. But they will a) most likely be less complicated than Juniper and b) For an adult audience. I’m a dirty guy and I need an outlet.
BUG: Any chance of a JUNIPER LEE comic?
JUDD: We have short stories in DC Comics’ CARTOON NETWORK ACTION PACK. I wrote the first 2, and the very first story was illustrated Mike Kunkel, our lead designer and the Eisner award winner cartoonist of HEROBEAR AND THE KID.
BUG: Do you have a target age group in mind when you write a superhero comic? Any concerns about younger readers encountering mature themes?
JUDD: Well, I write the stories that I think will be GOOD stories. But I’m not writing for 7 year olds. All of my books are presently uncoded, so I tend to go a bit further, but I acknowledge that teenagers are reading it. Sometime readers as young as 11 or 12. Some of my stuff is dark, some if it is pretty nasty. But to be honest, I’ve never go any further than what’s on TV at 8 o’clock, or in a PG movie. I truly believe that. Although some bits in the OUTSIDERS would probably get the FCC pissed off, but what the fuck do they know…
BUG: You once wrote a STAR WARS Valentine's Day special for Dark Horse, and this is AICN, so we can't *not* ask some STAR WARS questions. Was it a fun job?
JUDD: It was pure joy.
My friend Diana Shutz of DARK HORSE comics was calling about a project, I was swamped, and I figured I would have to turn her down. So I called her back while I was in my car. I love Diana, she’s one of my favorite peoples and I hate telling her no, so I wanted to say no without having to wring my hands too much over it. I was gonna tell her ”no” then explain that I was at the supermarket and should get off the phone.
Then she gave me the quick pitch. “I want you to write a valentine’s day story about Han and Leia. It should fall between Star Wars and EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. When we meet up with Leia and Han in Empire there already seems to be something cooking between them. I want you to write that story about their first real spark.”
So… I pulled the car over and told her “yes.”
To seal the deal she told me she wanted Paul Chadwick to draw it. I was a huge fan. So, she had me at “hello.”
BUG: What's your favorite STAR WARS flick?
JUDD: EMPIRE. It’s got Yoda. It’s got the big reveal. I adore it. That being said, I sure do love seeing Yoda fight in the last 2.
BUG: You created psychic Detective Josie Mac of the Gotham PD. Any plans to return to the character?
JUDD: I’d love to, but no plans as of yet.
BUG: With GREEN ARROW, GREEN LANTERN, OUTSIDERS and EXILES, you've had some fairly extended runs on titles. How do you keep it fresh when you stick with a title over a long period?
JUDD: Do I have extended runs? I just do the books I like to do. I leave them when I’m done. Green lantern was as long as I wanted it to be, and Batman was as long as the JASON TODD/ RED HOOD arc. I guess, I just try and take the characters places that are new for me as a reader and a writer. Oliver Queen becoming mayor was part of that. The OUTSIDERS faking heir death was part of that. The freshness is about turning a new corner. When I run out of corners, I’ll grab my hat and coat and bid everyone goodbye.
BUG: Is it like a relationship break-up when you leave?
JUDD: Yes and no. In most of the cases, I’m done. But I DO find it hard to read the book right after I’ve left. Sort of like not wanting to see an ex-girlfriend I suppose…
BUG: It's almost impossible to launch a new monthly series these days, but here we are over five years since you launched EXILES and it's still going strong. Are you a proud papa? Any particular alchemy to EXILES' success? Any interest in ever returning to the title?
JUDD: I miss the EXILES a lot. That was one book that was never hard to write. At the time that I left I was about to” turn the corner” on it with a new idea. I am really thrilled that it’s still going on. As far as returning, well, I’m exclusive to DC, as long I’m exclusive to DC , EXILES will have to wait. Along with HULK, SPIDERMAN, and all the other Marvel characters I really dig.
BUG: Your stories often reflect real world events and address them directly. In the past, comics have used this method of storytelling (the Speedy on drugs story in GREEN LANTERN/ GREEN ARROW comes to mind), while others have used a less direct/more allegorical approach, burying the message a bit in fantasy. What are your thoughts on both approaches?
JUDD: Well, I’ve done both. Stories that are clearly taking on an issue, and those that masked within metaphor, or dressed up in a comic book setting. Both have a place. I think it’s important sometimes to tackle real issues head on. Sometimes we shouldn’t gild it, sometimes the readers should see, clear as day, that this is a subject that comes out of own world. Other times it’s best to break it down with OUR characters in their environment. Sometimes a great way to talk about the Middle East or the “troubles” in Ireland is by making it into an alien race. In that way, you can give it a conclusion.
BUG: And speaking of THE REAL WORLD, I know you are probably sick to death of talking about it, but for most of us, this was the first time we ever heard of you. Has it been hard living under that type of shadow and trying to develop you own name apart from all of that?
JUDD: For starters, I’m not sick of it. It’s a part of my life. I’m one of the few people who came out of the experience for the better. And that despite many hardships, I’ve always said it was the best and worst experience on my life. The best, in the people I met and the things I came to learn. Most, most, most, importantly, meeting my wife Pam. We’ve been together ever since, and we now have a baby. I couldn’t have asked for more. I mean, C’MON, how many go on a TV show and fall in love? And STAY in love. And have a family? That’s us. We did. We have.
I also had to experience of losing a friend. My roommate on the show, Pedro Zamora. It was an amazing, enlightening, devastating, and heart wrenching time. I wouldn’t trade any of it. I don’t feel I’ve had to live “under that type of shadow”. It’s part of my life. I did it. If people still want to judge me for being on a reality television program for 6 months 12 years ago, well, that’s obviously their fucking problem.
BUG: Your dislike for fellow REAL WORLD roommate Puck was pretty apparent on that show. Have you ever been tempted to use him as a template for a villain in one of your stories?
JUDD: Okay, a few answers on this one:
1) This is not the first time I’ve been asked this.
2) I was asked on panel about 4 years ago, and writer James Robinson, who I don’t know and had never spoken to before, answered before I did. He said something to the effect of “… that’s so fucking ridiculous, he did that what? 8 years ago? You’re asking him about something that happened in his life briefly, and nearly a decade ago. Get serious.” I thanked him later and he just simply said that he was over come with how ridiculous it was.
And now onto 3): I’m reminded of one of my favorite scenes from one of favorite TV shows NORTHERN EXPOSURE. The actor Graham Greene had a recurring role of a shaman on the program. He is doing research of the “stories” of the white man’s race. What are the tales of old, the stories of legend, that empower us (the white folks). Native Americans as well as other cultures rely so heavily on the messages and lessons in stories, what are the stories for our race? So, he’s talking to the people of Sicily, Alaska, and seeing what are the stories that inspire them. Mostly people are coming up with urban myths, and are not really helping him. And later he talks to the bar owner Holling Vincoeur and his wife Shelly. They bring the old story of Paul Bunyon, the giant lumberjack and his immense bull, Babe.
GRAHAM GREENE: And how has this character effected you? How does his story and trials inspire you in every day life?
Holling thinks hard on it for a beat or two, then respond with great dry sincerity:
HOLLING: I have gone for YEARS without even thinking about it.
So, to answer your question about Puck. I have gone for YEARS without even thinking about him.
I mostly like telling that bit from NORTHERN EXPOSURE.
BUG: What advice do you have for someone considering trying to get on the REAL WORLD? Is there any particular quirks they look for in an demo tape or a certain attitude they like to exploit? Because I've got ideas, oh yes, I have me some ideas.
JW: Well, speaking as an old man who did it way back when, I have to say that times have changed. I KNOW that I may sound like an adult film star pining on about the early days of porn, y’know, when it MEANT something, but reality TV used be simpler. If you want to get on the REAL WORLD you need to be younger than I was, you must go to the gym a lot, wax most the hair off your body, and apparently be willing to get drunk and screw on camera. I’m not saying this is bad, I’m just saying what is. Good luck. Stay off the carbs and don’t go tanning too soon after the waxing.
And thus ends part one of our sit down with Judd Winick. Join us in a few short days for part two where Judd goes into specifics regarding his current writing projects, the most politically incorrect thing Judd does, and his thoughts on DC, crossovers, and comic book writing. See ya then…
