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Harry Sees Mel Gibson's APOCALYPTO At Fantastic Fest!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Just got in from the FANTASTIC FEST screening of APOCALYPTO tonight. From seeing the film for a second time in the same day. After the second screening, I have to say it plays even better. The themes about how the industrial needs of a civilization, even a primitive one - lay the groundwork for moral, societal and physical decay really begin to come out. Then there's just the pure B-movie pulp of an action film. I heard at least 5 people afterwards say that it was a Mayan Western. Louis Black, editor of the Austin Chronicle was heard to say, many times, that "It's like a Terrence Malick film with a B-movie Plot!" - and if you know Louis, you know how heartfelt and excited that was. One of the reasons that Louis Black and I are friends and have known each other for the last 30 years is that... We love High Art and Low Art. And most of all we love it when the two converge. This is a B-movie with the soul of a great artist and the production values of the best of Hollywood. Watching it the second time - the temp score kills me, but he's got James Horner working on a score that will use 100% primative instruments. He's set to trim some more out, and man... to hear this with the final sound mix and color graded and with the fx in. I just can't wait. The film received a standing ovation from the audience and it was absolutely earned. Can't wait to hear from the others that were there. Send in your reviews, positive or negative to Harry@AintItCool.com - What a fun night!
Harry here...
I love secrets. Secrets are awesome things. Watching people guessing secrets are even better. At roughly 1pm today at the Alamo Drafthouse Downtown, at a private screening held by Mel Gibson for myself and the Native American Pow Wow Association of Austin (I believe that’s their name) of APOCALYPTO. Five minutes ago, it started for a second time today in Austin at the ALAMO DRAFTHOUSE SOUTH as part of FANTASTIC FEST 2006. Tonight’s audience will be treated to not just a screening of this rough masterpiece, but also by the presence of Mel Gibson and his star,Rudy Youngblood. And I’m one of the lucky fuckers that gets to see this twice.
The film isn’t done. Some visual effects aren’t in place, the sound design is completely not done, the score is 100% temp tracked and somewhere in there is 5-10 minutes that will be coming out. I imagine this will come out of the Mayan civilization outskirts. It’s all quite nice, but it’s the only fatty and drag-ish area of the film. Otherwise, what we saw this early afternoon is a film of immense power.
APOCALYPTO opens with a hunt. The prey is a bizarre prehistoric looking creature that we know as the Tapir. As a real animal – it just doesn’t look real. It seems malformed. In this opening sequence it is being chased and herded into the direction of a trap. A killing trap of brutal lethality. The hunters use nets to create the walls that herd the creature. And when it trips the trap. WHOOSH – Spurt. It is dead. The rain forest hunters of a small Mayan tribe just inland from the coast are good simple people. As they cut up their prey – divvying up the good parts – the heart, the liver, the balls… Jaguar Paw (Rudy Youngblood) is authorative and seemingly fair. The scene is filled with humor, pranks and just… good fun. Then – the wind changes and the tone of the jungle changes and suddenly the party grows still – Jaguar Paw cries out to the forest in his Yucatec tongue, “WHAT DO YOU WANT?” – suddenly a few shadowy figures come forward – they seem weathered, weary and peaceful. Like a scared bunny that has run too much this day, they come forward seeking safe passage – the wish to make a “new beginning” as their village had been ravaged this day. By who, whom or what – we don’t know… Jaguar wants to press, but his father insists that he let them be.
We return with the hunters to their village. This isn’t the majestic pyramids of the Maya Empire, but a small village… huts… Everyone knows everyone’s business. One man’s inability to breed becomes the entire society’s “sit com” by today’s standard. A joke they seemingly never get tired of. I spent one 3 week period in my life in a village like this one, outside the Mayan ruins of Palenque. My first grade teacher’s husband was there on a dig for the University of Texas – and directed my parents to this amazing place. No hotels at that time, just a small village with simple folks. Many speaking this same dialect of Yucatec, a beautiful language. The money my parents gave them afforded them to slaughter a wild boar to feast upon. Wonderful place. I remember mostly the sounds of the rain forest and the light… This place that Mel found to shoot this film had that primal rainforest feel. When the final sound mix comes in, I can’t wait to hear these quiet sequences.
By the next morning, again there is a tone shift. Jaguar had woken from a troubling dream of the leader of the wandering people, clutching his own heart and telling him to Run. A disturbing dream. As he awakes – a village dog is barking – his pregnant wife asks him to go kill it. It’s the adorable whining of the one you love telling you to answer your phone or hit the alarm… or kill the dog. We still want to kill the dog some mornings, don’t we?
Only, this time… somewhere in the jungle, someone else has killed the dog. And Jaguar Paw hears it. Sees the fires of strangers, the initial violent intent as a stealthy force is coming into the village. This attack… you’ve never seen anything quite like this. Strangulation weapons, brutal obsidian axes and clubs. The force that comes in is from a “civilized” Mayan culture… Their dress is more ornate, weapons more refined… and they know what they are here for. They are here for slaves – and anyone that is too much trouble – they will be killed.
Jaguar Paw puts his young son and very pregnant wife at the bottom of a natural well/crevice… essentially a hole in the ground. He then goes to help fight off those that are attacking his people. However, these intruders know what they’re doing. They know how to fight, hunt and capture people. And our hero is no different. He is captured. He is about to be taken on a journey that he is not prepared for. He will be marched to a great Maya city. He will witness and be a party to ritual sacrifice. He will see slavery and cruelty and poverty that he will not truly understand. The sun will disappear and reappear and there will be prophecy, death and more.
To tell of the rest of the film, would be a crime, but I will say it unfolds unflinchingly. As we are all aware, Mel doesn’t shy from arterial sprays and he does not turn away from maimings. Watching this film – I felt like I was transported from the here and now. Placing the wife and child at the bottom of a pit that would fill with rain water and drown his family to create urgency for Jaguar Paw to escape and return to their aide… well it’s awesome, it’s that great Crichton time trap – that ups the suspense and urgency. It may not be the end of our world at risk here, but it is certainly the end of Jaguar Paw’s world.
The native Americans gathered at this screening seemed to love it. Asking questions about the accuracy and reality of what they were seeing. One member of the audience asked Mel if he was saying that the decay of the Mayan empire was solely from within, as he feels the influence of European invaders had a lot to do with it. Mel responded that he has always felt that the seeds for different civilizations demise always start from within, as a healthy society can repel any foreign invader – especially one like this with a warrior caste and a vast civilization He does see the film as a metaphor for where we are today, but moreso he sees the film as a work of entertainment. Something to transport the audience.
Is this the great film of the Maya Civilization? It is the most audacious and successful attempt at that period. Mainly due to the fact that the story is such an intimate experience. The whole film rests upon the shoulders of actor Rudy Youngblood and his Jaguar Paw character. To think that this cast is nearly all first time actors. People that Mel found on Docks and wandering the streets of Mexico City… is astonishing. The faces and the stories on these faces are great. The make-up, costumes and recreation of a lost culture are exquisite.
What I saw today was a very rough jewel, when I see it again, the day before Butt-Numb-A-Thon – I trust I will see an immaculate jewel. This could very well be the best film Mel has made when he’s done with it. How commercial will it be? I haven’t a clue. The story is incredibly involving and constantly thrilling. However, too often I’ve seen films of this type lost on audiences today. That Mel would even attempt this movie is a triumph, that it is in and of itself a triumph is a blessing.
Can’t wait to see it with the audience tonight. They’re in for a very special treat. Wish you were with us!
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good one
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sounds pretty damn sweet
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and fuck mel still...
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I think
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i really thought 300 was gonna play
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Does Mel have anything besides arterial sprays and axes on his mind? Based on Harry's description this sounds like he's making Braveheart all over again. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! People can complain all they want about the drunken rant, but it's his terrible movies that should be the focus of attention.
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I like Gibson but this seems just to much.
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Ive wanted to see this film since the teaser. I cant wait for more reviews
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Didn't expect that to be the surprise. A surprise indeed!
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I don't know what to think about Mel Gibson anymore after his supposed drunken racist rant
But this film is looking pretty frakking good
We'll see....... -
well, i guess that's better than having to watch Sean Penn scream his ass off in his latest movie.
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what a nutter!
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Pipe down, you attention whore. I really respect Harry's choice (for once) to leave the personal side out of this review and let the movie speak for itself. Mel's political/personal views (or any other celebrity's, for that matter) don't mean crap to me. I think Mel Gibson is a great film maker and I look forward to seeing this one.
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at next year's Oscars, I'll still love his work. I might not agree with whatever his personal beliefs may or may not be, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING outside of slappin' my mama will make me hate Lethal Weapon 2.I can't wait for Apocalypto!
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And to all you talkbackers jabbin at Mel... go ahead and jab you dumb fucks. He has more power, creativity, raw talent and lets not forget money than all of you combined. He may have said some dumb and irresponsible things while drunk but most of you manage to sound even dumber while sober on these boards.
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I guess history wasn't the audience member's stong suit.
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"The Passion of the Jew" episode of South Park.He may not have appreciated everything Trey and Matt were throwing at him, but I got a feeling he probably got a kick out of it's ending.
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"A killing trap of brutal lethality." HAHAHAHAHAHA! Anyway, I had to quit reading because I didn't want any more of the film given away. People will hate Mel Gibson, but I am look forward to the film, I just don't want to read more about it, especially past the 'somebody killed the dog' part. Amen.
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Wow! First I ended up defending Harry's writing and now I'm descending even further into the abyss and defending Talkbackers? But seriously, I've seen some dumb things said on these Talkbacks, but dumber than "The Jews are responsible for all the war in the world."? I don't think so. The drunk thing is a cop-out. Most people have said dumb stuff drunk, but I don't know anyone whose gone anywhere close to going on a long racist screed. Mostly admitting crushes on people or acknowledging a bosses ineptitudes at imprudent moments. Racist screeds are still the exclusive territory of racists. And while I agree, in general, that artists personal beliefs shouldn't affect my view of their art, I think virulent racism goes way past the line at which I can let it go as part of their "personal life". I can't imagine how I could see that differently and still face myself in the mirror. I'm honestly not sure how Gibson's power or money make him better than me, that would also make every single member of congress, regardless of their beliefs or competence level, better than me as well. It's a pretty pitiful argument, a desperate cry to defend what is to any decent human being ABSOLUTELY INDEFENSIBLE. But, whatever, when it comes to APOCALYPTO, I agree with Nate Champion, the problem is he's a terrible filmmaker with ridiculous one-dimensional views of the human soul and human interaction. I'm sure this movie looks beautiful, but I've heard nothing to convince me he's risen above that enormous hurdle.
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damn good on harry to ignore politics and mel's fuckup. plenty of people would have passed on the opportunity because 'oh no, he doesn't like jews'. because knowing that changes the amount of talent he has. /cheer headgeek
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but this is what i thought the secret screening would be before i even started reading other people's guesses. so i'm proud of myself right now. i think this whole fiasco as we're calling it now, will make for a much more interesting story if this turns out to be a great film in the end.
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The Jews *don't* run Hollywood? And they *don't* cause wars or because the cop *doesn't* have sugar tits? He made some drunken 'observations'. Let it go, people. If you only watched movies made by people you would like in real life you probably would never see another movie again. I know I wouldn't.
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Yackbacker, you've already decided that Mel Gibson is a Jew-hating Nazi sympathizer with an oven ready for anyone who doesn't agree with him. Open-minded? You come off as one-sided as you make Mel Gibson out to be. My question is, would you even watch this movie? If you're open-minded, you'd at least check it out, regardless of who directed it. I think Roman Polanski is a criminal and a paedophile who is avoiding justice and mocking law and order by not answering to his charges, but I can appreciate the man's art. Does he get off the hook because he made a movie about the Holocaust? Just curious.
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you never said anything stupid when you were drunk? I know I have. What's funny is the double-standard as far as the news and media goes. Mel offends Jews = HUGE STORY. Rosie says fundamentalist christians are just as dangerous as islamic terrorists = audience applause & hardly a peep from critics. Now, I hate all religions equally, but that did seem a bit weird. PS - can't wait to see this flick.
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I don't know if Harry is being noble or not by not bringing up politics. Perhaps he just wants as many directors and cool films at his festival as possible. I don't KNOW but I suspect it has more to do with serving Harry and AICN than some moral stand or policy. Not that I blame him, just don't turn it into "Harry is so great and never self-serving."
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I havent been more let down since Anne Hesche went straight again.
So know we know why Harry hates Ratner? -
Mel Gibson, in a drunken rage, makes comments about jews. Danny Glover appears at Hugo Chavez events and spouts crazy, nonsensical crap. Let the games begin!
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Is blaming all the world's problems on one ethnic group really just POLITICS? Are long screeds with some degree of complicated view structure really anything like what you say when you've had too much to drink? Because that's way out of line with the drunken behavior I've seen. And I've seen at least my share over the years. I know it's not easy to give up on celebrities and the kind of pseudo-friendship that build's in one's head. And I don't care if any of you loved his simple-minded movies. I don't even really care if you don't care that he's a racist. But don't expect people who've actually considered this issue to consider your deliberate lack of concern over something that decent people denounced as evil decades ago to be a reasonable position. I can only wonder what he'd have to do in order to actually be seen as a poor example of humanity to some of you.
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All I know is, you people bitch and moan when he does ANYTHING other than present a review of a movie. Well he did that, and look what happens- a bunch of left leaning fruitcakes start whining because he didn't bring up the Mel Gibson stuff. Harry reviewed the movie on its merits and that's all we can ask. Shut up.
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isn't it expected that all people in Hollywood are a bunch of fucking idiots and perverts? i like how the same people who defend child porn as a right complain that an actor is sexist. and you want to talk about racism in hollywood?! let's talk about jewish people who openly mock non jewish people and make billions. some of the hardest core racists are jewish people. if you, like me, are jewish, you KNOW this is true. and how is it that you can all blame white people or islamic people for the wars in the middle east but not give partial blame to israel for the war with palistine. they are fighting over land PERIOD. it's a fight and both sides are claiming religious rights to the land. not every agrees that jews have a god given right to that land. i don't like war and i don't like oppression or racism... but mel gibson was drunk and ranting and what he said is not racist, it was political dumbasses. look how much shit he got for the passion from his fellow jewish hollywood friends. yeah, blaming people because of their race is wrong, but don't act like he wasn't provoked.
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[CAMERA CLOSE UP ON MEL - The intoxicated director farts loudly and defecates in his pants. His eyes begin to water and his nostrils flare. He farts again. FADE TO BLACK]
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I hate to say this, but I actually agree with Bill O'Reilly, who said on 20/20 last night that we wouldn't even be talking about some of this junk if the media didn't make a big fuss about it. They are the the great equalizer for the loony left that make up about 20% of the population (if not less).
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[CAMERA CLOSE UP ON MEL - The intoxicated director farts loudly and defecates in his pants. His eyes begin to water and his nostrils flare. He farts again. FADE TO BLACK]
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What Mel Gibson does in his personal life is completely and utterly inconsequential. Anyone that bases their opinion of this film, or any film for that matter, on the extracurricular activities of its creators is a complete idiot whose opinion is worthless.
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Jet Li's FEARLESS is quite good. This is a COOL movie and should have had some pub on ACIN. It tells a good story and the action, fantastic as it was, came naturally from the story. Great flick and I would quite enjoy a longer version if there is one.
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There is such a double standard in the culture today. And for those of you who say "You never say anything you don't believe when you're drunk," I offer you this..."Man, she's hot. I'd love to nail her."
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Shit from tip to tip. But this movie looks okay.
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Did you notice one of the things Mel said after his arrest? It was something along the lines of "I'm on a journey to figure out where that kind of hatred came from." At least he recognizes that he has issues rooted in his past (read: relationship with Daddy). Racism has a CAUSE, usually our upbringing and our religion. I'm not saying this to excuse Mel, but he strikes me as a smart guy who could get to the root cause of this if he tried. The question is...will he? Only when that question is answered should we be willing to accept or write off his right to make movies.
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Bill O'Reilly proclaimed there was a War On Christmas last year.
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"Anyone that bases their opinion of this film, or any film for that matter, on the extracurricular activities of its creators..." Who has done this? I've been saying BRAVEHEART is one-dimensional tripe for a dozen years. I've been saying THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST was boring and that it never overcame the painfully slilted line-readings of actors speaking languages they neither spoke nor heard spoken outside the making of the film. These were outside my beliefs about Gibson, since I'd always found him a charming and affable personality. My feeling now is that, while I've enjoyed his work as an actor, I'm hesitant to support his work, not JUDGE it, after his comments, which I agree were too specific to be mere accidental drunken rants, with my money or postive word.
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The scars of the destruction of the Mayan's are still to much on the minds of everyone.
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Sep 23, 2006 11:09:08 PM CDT
At least its an attempt at something totally different
by industrykiller!
And therefore it's got my money. Seems like a very interesting concept and hats off to Gibson for taking aim. I couldnt care less about his personal life. Mel Gibson doesnt owe me anything except to not make shitty movies and it seems that as a director hes willing to put himself on the chopping block and therefore he gets my respect as an artist.
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I....CANT'........WAIT.....FOR THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes, Gibson should know better. But then again, he sounds like a raging manic-depressive who should know better than to make things worse by going on scotch benders. I'm not trying to paint him as a victim, but I would reject any notion that the depression, the alcohol, and the dad thing are non-factors. If I were him, I'd take a year or two to get to the bottom of all this and seek healing. All I'm saying is that it's possible. I hope we don't have to write the guy off, but if he doesn't get help I'm willing to do it.
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I....CANT'........WAIT.....FOR THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I....CANT'........WAIT.....FOR THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ok well for future reference, DON'T BUY THE LOUSY REGULAR BADGE FOR FANTASTIC FEST! I'm a college student who couldn't afford the VIP badge, and I got screwed royally. I stood in the front of the regular badge line for three freaking hours waiting for this stupid screening, and the managers kept telling us that "there are more seats than VIP badges." BULL! Every regular badge holder got kicked to the curb. Everyone was pretty pissed off. It defintely left a bad taste in my mouth since I missed Severance to stand in line. Ugh. Harry, I want to know what happened? Did like 30 other people who worked for the studio get in or something? Is this going to happen again on Wed's screening. Should I even waste my time standing in line for that one?
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It should be another interesting film at least. I agree, this is at least one of the most original movies coming out this year. I'm there!
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Mel Gibson did say some nasty awful shit, and he mostly gets bashed for it(as he should be), mostly by the liberal media, Roman Polanski rapes a 12 year old girl, fleeds the country and still gets respect.
Hmmm.
I say judge the director's work on its own merrit, every who knows film history knows that John Ford was a racist yet he is considered great(and he is). -
Who the fuck decided to sell enough VIP badges to fill a whole goddamn theater? Those of us with regular badges got to miss a movie slot waiting in line for the "special screening" for over an hour, only to be told that the theater filled up before any regular badges could be admitted. What the holy fuck is that? Which also means I can kiss goodbye any chance of seeing Wednesday night's secret screening and probably The Fountain on Thursday. If that was their plan from the beginning, they'd better damn well tell us that up front and give us a better price break. As it is I'm chuffed enough to demand a refund for the rest of the festival. Fucking jerks. If I don't see a genuine apology somewhere, I'm sure as hell not returning for next year.
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...that there aren't any "original" movies or non-remakes these days. Somebody gives you one and you STILL complain. Know what? Go outside and join the rest of humanity, perhaps talk to a girl. Get some social skills. Eventually, you'll realize how miniscule your frame of mind was back in the days when you griped like spoiled brats all day at a website called AICN, and you'll be embarrassed to re-read the absurd comments you left behind.
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Harry, thank you for the review. I can't wait to see this. I knew it! And I'm so glad Mel Gibson will be there with you and your fest-goers. That's a scoop!! I can't wait to read what you and everyone else has to say about the screening too. This is what Mel needed to do. Get the film out there, seen, and have people hopefully focus on it, because it would be awful if it's as wonderful as it sounds, but gets ignored. We've been through this once before. Thanks again, Harry!
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Paranoid much?
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Gibson should be condemned for what he said, clearly, but it strikes me as more ignorant than anything else. I'm not Jewish, so I can't say what "should" and "shouldn't" offend a Jew. But trading in one of the traditional stereotypes about Jews--for example, that they are greedy, miserly, and consumed with money--or claiming that they use the blood of children for Passover rituals (see here: http://tinyurl.com/akhox) is, to me, vastly more offensive than what Gibson said. Imagine instead that he had said, "The Italians are responsible for all the wars in the world." Everyone would have said, "Huh? That's nuts..." Italians and Italian-Americans would have been pissed, and would have demanded an apology. Rightly so. But the rest of us wouldn't be condemning Gibson the way we are now. Why? Because saying that a particulr group is responsible for various wars is not grossly demeaning -- not in my view, anyway. Yeah, I know Gibson is suspect because of his father, and because some people thought The Passion of the Christ was anti-Semitic (though the head of the ADL did not). I also understand that anti-Semitism is vastly more troubling than other "antis" because of the Holocaust; we saw what anti-Semitism could lead to, when taken to extremes. But all this stuff about Gibson being a Nazi and a Jew-hater is way over-the-top, if you ask me. More likely, he's an ignorant guy with some uncharitable, ill-informed stereotypes kicking around his head that come out when he's drunk. In that respect, he's probably like a lot of otherwise reasonable, respectable people that all of us know, work with, and call our friends.
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Seriously, though, this looks like a pretty good film. Hope it finds an audience - it'll largely be lost on Jews and Jesus freaks this time round. Don't think the people who turned out for 2+ hours of Christ torture will cotton to a movie starring uncivilized New World heathens. And yeah, "Clan of the Cave Bear" was pants, but "Quest For Fire" was tits.
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Once in vegas I was at a night club with some friends and all there was a severe lack of chicks (hot or otherwise). One of my buddies goes "It's a fucking sausage fest in here" and I said "When life gives you sausages, make sausage-aid", and I started to hit on some dude that I thought looked like fabio. At the time, being fabios butt budy sounded like it would make a good story I could tell people. Fortunately, my friends were there to rescue me, and just thinking about that now makes me feel physically sick. Anyway, stop fucking whining about Gibsons antisemetic tirade. When people get drunk they think, say, and do REALLY stupid out-of-character things. You're all fucking whiny douchebags who get their jollies verbally assaulting the celebrity/public figure flavor of the month. Here's a hint, it's not amusing - it's fucking annoying as fuck.
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Wow, did you just compare Mel Gibson to Saddam Hussein and OJ Simpson? So you're actually implying that Mel Gibson rapes, tortures, and murders innocent people? Wow. Just wow. I think maybe you need to re-evaluate yourself, because you are exactly the thing you claim Gibson to be.
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Is that cool with you guys?
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I've said some really stupid shit while hammered. I mean REALLY stupid shit. I'm not saying that Mel doesn't have a bias against Jews, but the fact is that he has never committed acts of violence against any people, and he's never endorsed any type of violence against people. Having a shitty opinion is fine, as long as it doesn't manifest itself. I don't have a problem with biases...I have a problem when said biases affect the way you treat other people. And in many cases, they don't hurt a damn soul. Be a bigot, fine, just don't hurt anybody...And Mel hasn't.
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It's a niche kind of movie, but it'll get it's audience.
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We are so lucky to live here in Austin. Thanks for sharing this with us. We still have 5 nights left of Fantastic Fest..................
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So many here of some sub-set of society are just looking to be victims. Race, religion, hair color...doesn't matter. No one, especially the media, has even mentioned the fact that Mel donates MILLIONS each year to MANY humanitarian causes, not just religious or political ones like most Hollywood jerk-offs. Hillary Clinton's bid doanations do not count as "humanitarian".
See how many well-known Semites you can find that give money away to other-than-Semetic causes.
Sorry, stereotypes come from somewhere, and they wouldn't be prepetuated if there wasn't a measure of truth to them. Mel goofed. So fucking what. When you give as much money away to feed kids, build homes, and save lives, then you fucking crybabies can say something, otherwise, get in your Jetta, plug your iPod in, listen to some R.E.M., label anything you don't like as "hate speech", and shut the fuck up! God, I thought we were done with all these 90's PC douche bags. Ugh!!! -
he's not anti-jew. let's get one thing straight... he was trying to get a distributer for Apocolypicowhatever and everyone who was pissed about The Passion made his life a living hell. thus the comments about how his life and career are fucked. don't you guys pay attention? and let's make something else clear here... jewish people are far from innocent of racism and sexism. they are SEXIST as fucking hell. just like christians and muslims. not all, but certainly the fundementalists are. let's stop kidding ourselves about these 3 religions... CORE beliefs are oppressive. fuck all of them if they want to be hypocritical and point fingers at each other. i am jewish and i was raised by german christians and now i am just a person who believes in God but won't go to church because of all the damn sexism. not any church. fucking jewish people can get off their fucking high horse about mel gibsons comments cause they have publically said 10 x worse about him and The Passion and ALL in the name of getting 15 minutes of fame or pushing up the dedication of the congregation by getting them united against someone. mel was a fucking asshole for what he did, but he didn't start the fight. and nobody should kid themselves that he's not going to fucked for making The Passion for the rest of his life by anti-everyone jewish people. again, i'm jewish, so, go fuck yourself if you arent' and try to tell me i'm anti jew and fuck you if you are jewish and want to lie that this shit isn't true. at least people should tell the truth about what mel gibson did instead of demonizing him.
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So, I'm a racist, because I think Gibson is scum?? How does that work? I was exaggerating to make a point about someone's "personal life" not being relevant. I don't think Gibson killed anybody, but if he inspires even ONE loser (maybe yourself?) to hate on Jews and maybe even act on that hate, then yeah, he's fucking scum. If the world hasn't learned its lesson yet on this subject yet, then I really can't help you people. Jews are the canaries in the coal mine, the hate always starts with them and moves down the line... I for one am not going to wait until it gets to my group to be offended. Get a fuckin' backbone.
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... so... people shouldn't be upset with Mel... because he's... right? Or because... Jews are just as bad? It's hard to understand what you're saying through all the insane.
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Wouldn't the wife and child simply float to the top of the pit as it filled with water?
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no, i'm talking to the people calling him hitler. i think he was an asshole for what he said, but he's just a fucking actor. he's not the president. he doesn't see himself as a leader and he wasn't trying to send a message to anyone. he was drunk and pissed about something and he was a fucking asshole. but he's not hitler. and i'm watching a movie at the same time as i'm writing, so, it's probably scattered sounding
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Why the Holocaust happened. It's because 99% of people have had their spine removed and are too selfish to ever stand up for a persecuted minority. Hey man, those Nazis never bother me...at least the trains are on time. Yeah, sorry, this shit pisses me off. The Christians who fell for that fucking snuff film called "The Passion Of Christ" are already "forgiving" Mel and rooting for him. Cuz, you know, he was just telling the truth... These are the same people who hate Hollywood because they vote Democratic and think Bush is morally superior cuz all he did was kill thousands of people while Clinton got his dick sucked. Christians suck! Most Christians are as far removed from Christ as a fucking Satanist. Incredible hypocrites.
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First time poster. Is Mel anti semitic, sure. Do his movies rock, yes! What about Passion of the Christ is anti semitic? If my roommate, a Jewish fellow, made a movie about Jewish history Jesus would be a super sweet carpenter. As a Christian, would I be offended, never. Thats what their history says. Why are people so f_cking stupid?
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Oh and he wasn't drunk, by the way. It was the middle of the day and he was driving on the wrong side of the road because he was driving while AMERICAN.
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Does that have to do with anything? Yeah, Matthew Broderick was responsible for a car accident that killed two women. And he's had to live with that shit. Do you know for a fact that he didn't suffer greatly because of that, or that he didn't do good things to try make up for this terrible mistake on his part?? How you got from A to Q is truly bizarre. If he said "Irish people should be killed" and THEN had an accident... BTW, he's half Irish and half Jewish. Relevant? Not really. But as much as your post I guess...
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The fact that Mel made that shitty fucking film and then later went on to make anti-semetic remarks. Just, total coincidence, huh? Wow. What are the odds?
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Massawyrm is a syphills infected douche for seeing it too.
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You both know i love you in a semi gay way. (it isnt totally gay if you pitch)
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...looks fucking ridiculous.
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I hear you broseph. However, he made a movie about the bible and its 100% accurate to what it says. Again, do I think he's anti semitic, yes. That movie, no.
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Don't try and sugarcoat the shit, because that's how it's been since the beginning of time. Liquor loosens that tongue, and whatever pent up opinions you had come to the surface. I'm not cutting Gibson any slack in that department.
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Mel Gibson in his WHOLE life hasn't done a thing, hasn't committed a deed that would point he somehow hates or dislikes jews. Now, that all means nothing cause he said some shit while he was drunk. Calling you ignorant would by too soft a ward. Bitches... that might suit better.
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Of course I was seven at the time, but still, it's a bit shocking.
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Not a politician. What he said was ignorant and stupid, but he's not running for office. Why does it really matter or affect anything?
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I never saw The Passion but I understand why it was made. It was made for similiar reasons for making Schindler's List. It was supposed to be a memorial. It wasn't supposed to be a movie to make people blame jewish people for killing someone who claimed to be their messiah. You know... if anyone looked bad in the story it was the people who were self appointed religious authority figures who were oppressing people. That's nothing to do with race or religion but politics. According to the story Jesus was asasinated because he was a threat to the political religious leaders. When someone goes around doing miracles and being nice to the undesirables in society and tells everyone that they should be good to everyone and then tells the religious leaders that they are ignorant and tyranical... that will get you killed. Remember the last time someone tried to tell everyone to treat everyone equal... we have a holiday in this country for him too. So, is a movie about how white people killed Martin Luther King Jr anti-white? No.
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Interesting how Mel's drunken comments can spawn this huge talkback and put him on everyone's shit list for eternity, but if he said the same thing on the floor of the U.N. this week, you'd all be saying, "You know, he's got a point. We need to listen to this man. And invite him to speak at our college. And help him with his nuclear program." MOVIE TRAILER GUY: "In a world full of Mahmoud Ahmadinejads... I'm willing to cut Mel Gibson some slack." I call my film, "EARTH TO FANBOYS."
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and if not why? i mean they just wanted the zionist puppeteer parasites out of their weak post-ww1 economy is that so bad? i mean their aryan racism and all was obviously stepping the line, maniacal & sadistic, and they should've gone after the actual zionists selectively, i've seen jews who are against the zionist societies too, they shouldd have worked together wtih everyone to oust the parasites, the same ones who ussd up early 20th century england, the same ones who moved into imperial germany, and are now controlling the USA, pulling all the strings,
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You're just a woman with a small brain.
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Wait, we're passed that...
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I can feel it! Feel it brotha Mel! I can feel it!
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Will wonders never cease. Personally, I find a lack of a patent "Oy Vey! Everyone who supports Mel Gibson & his ilk, is anti-simitic" Anchorite diatribe disturbing. C'mon Anchorite, where are you? The natives are restless.
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You obviously have met EVERY Christian on the planet. Mel may have a racist demon to purge, but you're not too far from that kind of bigotry with "Christians suck." Yes, a large subset of the Christian faith are bigoted, self-centered idiots. Show me any group that doesn't have a lunatic fringe. The problem with Christianity is that the lunatic fringe currently has a lot of the power. That's why I'm proud to be part of the "Christian underground," fighting for a return to what Christianity was supposed to be all about. Read "God's Politics" by Jim Wallis and you'll see there's more to the Xian faith than the Xian right.
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While you people are whining about what some drunk celebrity said when he was arrested the state of Israel is slaughtering Palestinian childern and has been for fifty fucking years you ignorant consumer-sheep pricks
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Excellent. This may be the best film of the last four-or-so years.
By the way, I wonder how "objectively" that so-called "Oscar committee" (snort) will look at the film, eh? -
What is the timeline for when an atrocity is funny? Cause in america it is acceptable to make jokes about slavery and the indian genocide but smack talk the holocaust and watch out. So lets do the math shall we lets see civil war ended what about 140 years ago and the Indian wars ended about 125 years ago ? So I guess in another 60 years we will finally be able to make fun of the jews and their special little holocaust, which is so special among the slaughters mankind has perpetrated against one another that it gets its own name, without everybody eating out your ass. Bottom line is get over it Jews yeah a lot of you died guess what shit happens its not like your zionist brothers and sisters in Israel haven't been doing their share of wanton slaughter over the last half century. But what do I know I'm just an antisemite right and I hate all jews right. Wrong you don't know shit about me your just pissed off because I pointed out the hypocrisy that permeates all of western society. Are Jews the cause of all wars?? no Are the zionists running the state of Israel causing some wars?? yes Are Jews evil? well im sure some are but on the other hand im sure some are good. You see all these statements mean nothing they are bullshit statements which if anyone is so thin skinned that they let comments like this hurt or offend them then they need some serious mental help.
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"Cause in america it is acceptable to make jokes about slavery and the indian genocide"? Yeah, my shelves are lined with volumes 1 through 20 of the "Big Book of Slavery and the Indian Genocide Jokes." Did you hear the one about the slave and the Native American? No, I didn't either. Maybe they tell those jokes over at moveon.org and that's why I missed 'em.
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Plus, I admire the guy for putting up the insurance money so that Robert Downey Jr. could work in film again. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad never offered to do that.
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isn't it funny how we have selective memory when it comes to genocide. I have never once in any high school or college class been taught about the Indian Genocide which has indisputably been the longest and most bloody genocide that man has ever perpetrated. not fucking once my nazi american bretheren. a conservative estimate is that the empires of europe and later the american government were responsible for the death of 300 million men women and children. This was not an abnormality it was and still is the policy of western culture when dealing with aboriginal peoples. A 500 hundred year protracted genocide which i haven't been taught about once in any school in this country. I was taught about manifest destiny, though, and why it was so important to the "winning" of the west and the pioneer spirit. If this isn't facism I don't know what is. Unfortunately if you study history you will find that the "republic" in-so-much as it ever existed was dead after the civil war. Since then it has been a predictable decline. The hilarious thing is that our founding fathers predicted it would happen and warned against it. Again something I was never taught about in school. Funny how that works. I guess my liberal college profs were too busy brainwashing me to fit in a section on the American Genocide.
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I've about as much interest in this fucker as I have in going to Mel's annual Jew Hater convention along with Hesbola and that mad Iranian cunt. The ONLY thing I'd be prepared to watch with Gibbo is another Mad Max film. And thats about fuckin all.
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i guess you've never watched tv before my dim witted friend. o wait i forgot your american and your memory goes back all of what two weeks? sorry i forgot my bad. Ok see let me see if i can think of an example off the top of my head? ok the roast of william shatner i cant remember specifics but i distinctly remember several jokes about black people and slavery. And come on dude you've don't tell me you've never heard an "indian joke" or mabye you've never seen pre-politically correct american television and how it portrayed native americans circa 1950's, 60's, and 70's. O wait I got it the movie maverick that definately makes fun of the situation native americans found themselves in at the end of the 1800's. Hmmm mel gibson starred in that movie how ironic.
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Way to go, Harry. You accomplished that with your intro paragraph. You also raved about that glorified snuff film PASSION OF THE CHRIST. Thinking now I'll pass on this one from MR. IHATEJEWS...
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So it's insane to compare Gibson to OJ Simpson [which the initial post on this subject actually did not do - yet more talkbackers with tiny brains who do not understand what a reductio ad absurdum is supposed to do] but you have no qualms about showing up and posting about how "the Zionists provoked Hitler"? You're exposed as a parody troll, buddy. Your name should have been a tipoff but I've still been in doubt until now.
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Yes, I am a dim-witted American and was likely in grad school when that famous "william shatner roast" was on, I guess. A gaping hole in my education, certainly. I missed "Maverick" too. Anyway, I've heard your rant before, and it's tired. Take any negative in the history of mankind, feed it through the AElfwineinator 3000, and voila! Americans are the worst perpetrators of Sin X in history! The West sucks! And your solution, sir? "You're a stupid American!" Yes, but what is your plan to right the wrongs of history, oh wisened one? "You're all sheep." Granted, I'm a sheep; now what would you like to do about this global genocide? I'm sure your act is a hit over at chomskyfan.org, but perhaps you could bring a little more to the table here. See, this is a movie fanboy site and we're a little slow. Guide us, o sage.
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...but he did kill two people when his car drifted into the wrong lane.
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What should I say to piss EVERYONE off, no matter their religion, race, politics, etc.? Hmm . . . oh, I got it. Michael Bay rules! (Oh, wait, it has to be something about Mel Gibson, doesn't it?)
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I love the kneejerk american reation to the truth. As you pointed out this is just a movie boy fansite so it would probably be a waste of time to attempt a meaningful conversation. All I was attempting to do is illustrate the hypocrisy of our cultures reaction to different instances of genocide not attempt to educate the brainwashed likes of you. read a book you lazy ass don't come here and demand i give you all the answers. And as for america being "the worst perpetrators of Sin X in history" I don't recall ever implying that mabye you should read what people type instead of glossing over it and reacting. In my opinion america is neither better nor worse than any other nation state that has existed. It has definately killed a lot of innocent people though. But really in the grand sweep of history the nation state in general is the bloodiest system of political organization ever envisioned by mankind. Usually sane moral people when confronted with a great injustice such as the aforementioned 500 year protracted genocide don't react with statements such as yours. Usually sane moral people express at least some empathy and regret.
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I f'ed the chopboard!
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Watch APOCALYPTO and then ROAD TO EL DORADO and see what transpires.
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Damn you Michael Bay
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I know that a lot of people believe the whole thing was orchestrated out of Israel (anything to take the blame away from Bush Snr. and Cheney, right?), although you just have to look at who had the most to gain from 9/11 happening. Personally I believe events in Germany and the final toll were...'exaggerated' but it certainly happened. Does Israel own America? The whole Lebannon things suggests they do. I'd like to hear Gibson's views on that, and then laugh at him. People only laugh out of fear of the unknown, anyhow.
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Sorry, I just don't sense any cream-your-pants bad-assitude in this review... saving it for 300, I guess.
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Mel Gibson doesn't hate jewish people. Ann Coulter fights the death penalty. Water is solid. The Holocaust never happened. Ben Affleck is a great actor. (to be continued)
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As much as I'd like to assume guilt for all of mankind's failures throughout history, I don't see the point. Like I said earlier, your line is tired. You alone know The Truth. Sadly, you don't seem to have sufficient command of the language to get your point across in a single post. So, the nation-state is the problem. Worst. Political. System. Ever. But asking you what to do about it is equivalent to "demanding." I demand nothing; I suggest only that if you have some sort of practical insight, by all means, share it. Don't alienate the unenlightened sheep among us; we need you. I patiently await the radiance of your wisdom.
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what people think of his personal life. The man owns his own island and is one of the best directors working today and will always have the clout to make any movie he wants when he wants and they'll never be hollywood tripe, hopefully.
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and yes what he said was digusting and hateful, but he did fuck up and I hope people can learn to slowly forgive him. I for one can't wait to see this
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One of my best friends is jewish, and I know for a fact that they give preferential treatment to one of their own. He says it's because they have to look out for each other, because they have been persecuted. You have to wonder if it's the chicken or the egg, though.
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There, I said it. The ones in this country are idiots for backing democrats, who back policy that is definitely anti-Israel. Can someone please explain to me why they do that?
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I think Mel is a charasmatic actor. He's not Marlon Brando, but he's got something that translates well onto the screen. His directorial efforts, however, are overwraught hackfests. Braveheart might have been all right if it wasn't complete fiction masquerading as historical fact. The Passion was absolutely awful, with no insight or anything new to say. Style over substance in the worst possible way (and the style wasn't even that good). As a director I will give Gibson points for having the guts to bring risky projects to the screen, but unfortunately he does not have the talent to follow up with a quality film. If Mel wasn't attached then I might actually be interested in seeing Apocalypto.
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brokebackcowboy, either you are a comic genius...or the greatest retard that ever posted on the tbs.
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That's what I heard, anyway. My guess is the movie will be good; Mel learned his lesson; and someone else will come out with an alcohol-or-drug-influenced stupid statement sooner than later, upsetting a large group of people, and inspiring a collective yawn from those of us who have to be concerned with something a bit more important in our daily lives.
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I guess you're a "child-molesting rabbi" then because my people come from Sicily and I was raised Roman Catholic. (I've strayed, mind you...and rather proud of that) And we know how big a problem child molesting has been among rabbis, oh yeah. Unlike those cub scout-loving repressed wackozoids who flock to the Catholic church to hide/hide from their sexual urges. Fucking pathetic. To zacdilone...I appreciate what you're saying and I'm glad to hear there are still REAL Christians out there. Just like the Muslims need to stand up against their radical wing, the Christians have to start to do the same cuz it's getting out of control.
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Yeah, we know. It makes you feel so much better about yourself, doesn't it?
Had you said something like, "I am concerned about Mel's failings as a person", that might be a different story. But you didn't. Instead, you gave yourself away. You're just another clownboy who needs someone to fail, because your own life - well, it's not as if anyone could be bothered to comment about your own life, is it?
When are YOUR movies coming out, asswipes? We'll review them here. But don't worry, no one's going to lose any sleep waiting to rate your achievements. -
But I kid Mel, the drunken scum.
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I want to see Ahhhnold and his dad, vs Mel and his dad, in a kiddie pool. Whoever gets to be on top is your imagination's call.
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That makes me sad, not angry. When someone makes a joke at my expense or at my people's expense, I just shake my head and say, without any hint of anger, "That's just pathetic." When people get angry and start spouting their own brand of hate in the name of self defense, noone is served.
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i like gibson - as a director/actor - he is talemted in those departments - if what we all heard about him is true, and it appears so, then that is really sad - too bad, you'd think someone in his positon would be more enlightened - i like charlton heston too - he's been in a lot of movies i love - but he is, in real life, a bit of a wacko god fearing gun loving bad-wig-wearing conservative - i can however seperate the artist's art from his personal/private beliefs/practices - ill be doing that with mel too now - i was hoping this "apocalypto" would touch on the theorized visits the mayans had from aliens, as mentioned in "chariots of the gods"
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jabbering and yelling with a red face lol" A smelly piece of turd. Do you know that you're a piece of shit? Are you aware of it?" hahaa you gotta love this troll
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Quote: "Did you know Germans took great risks upon themselves to save Jews from persecution? You should be grateful they did what they could under the circumstances." -- Ummm, that may be brokeback. But the majority did not do nearly enough.
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I find your use of the "Yeshua" (the proper Hebrew name for Jesus) to be hysterical. Sometimes, you can be a real piece of work.
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There is nothing to suggest that blind evolutionary pressures could "conspire" to make some ethnic group "better" than others, so I don't only despise racism (or other forms of prejudice) on ethical grounds, but also because of the fact that people who support it are scientifically illiterate and certifyable fools. That said, people jump on bandwagons too easily, specially when it relates to celebrities. So, as far as I am concerned, I haven't seen anything in Mel Gibson's past behaviour that is enough to suggest that he is a true racist, rather than some spoiled brat who acts particularly badly when he is drunk (Gee, I have never met somebody like that before). So, in my opinion, he has already said that he is sorry, and as long as he continues to make good movies and try to behave better in the future, I am ready to move past that incident.
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Gibson the anti-semite and loon does not deserve their money
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as i see it - the modern/current state of israel as a "nation" - is basically a militarized offshoot/arm of the united states (israel is full of american citizens and their military is funded and armed by u.s. federal dollars) - and as such will excercize any and all u.s. policy no matter how counterproductive such policies may be - for example - avoiding any serious peace talks with palestine (the "badguys") and knowingly targeting lebanese (muslim)civilians and non-military structures (like museums, power plants and water treatment plants) during this latest miltary action - and yet hezbollah is still there unscathed - i guess its easier to bomb a country back to the stone age than it is to ferret out and target a terrorist group like hezbollah - people forget that lebanon is a democracy too with citizens that are (one would think) free to vote how they please - but if any vote the "wrong" way they better watch their ass... this might be the reason why some dems back policy that might appear anti-israel - in fact its pro-diplomactic - one step in the right dirction might be having the u.s. - i mean - israeli army stop kidnapping civilians in the gaza strip - theres supposed to be a big difference between a national army crossing a border to kidnap civilians and a terrorist group kidnapping soldiers during a conflict - but in the bush/cheney-era i guess there isnt
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What's up with those banners? Is it because I've got the 'ol adblocker turned on?If so, yes she kills them. Kills them by the truckloads.
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You said it, brother.
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ive read all your posts, and you seem informed - they are however celverly veiled - are you actually insinuating that the real bad guys in nazi germany were jews that sold out other jews - im no expert, but the jews werent in power back then and they werent building any death and labor camps - they didnt create the enviornment and climate that brought the thied reich to power - it was the work of selfish politicians that fed the fear and insecurites of the poor (nonjewish) working class - they needed a villain in order to rally the huddled masses - they picked the easiest time tested target - jews - they painted them as the reason for everything wrong with germany (and the world) - and the people bought it - you are just blaming the victim by pointing the finger at the jews that sold out their own kind in any such enviornment your going to have certain members of the targeted party outing their neighbors just to survive - they were wrong for doing so but they werent the root of the problem
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and its a cliche alreay - is because that specific region sits on 60 percent of the worlds dwindling oil supply - and we(u.s.) want either direct control over that sweet oil or control through a puppet govt. - end of story
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I think the reason Iraq was invaded was a reverse domino theory- that is, if they could set up a stable democracy in one of those countries, the other dictatorships/theocracies/whatever would fall apart. ESPECIALLY Iran, who always seems to be on the brink of revolution anyway. I think it was a bad decision, in retrospect, and it certainly didn't go the way anyone intended. The trouble now is, what do we do about it? The democrats for their part aren't coming up with any viable solutions. We are just going to have to see this thing through until and do the best we can. It sucks though because there are real hotspots in the world where our resources are needed.
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WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!! WOOOT!!!!
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That's cute. I love it!
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you know who else will be around 5000 yrs from now? - radical evangelical christians - thats the group that scares me the most
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Again you exhibit your callousness to the death of millions. Are you that brainwashed that you can't bring yourself to admit that your own country was part of the worst genocide in recorded history. Are you debating this fact? So far you haven't; so I can only assume that you accept the fact it happened have no problem with it as your only response has been to demand me to give you answers about what i think should be done about it. Which in and of itself is a ludicris request and is indicative of someone suffering from a pshycosis. characterized by your inability to feel empathy at the suffering of others and your apparent inability to understand the simple principal of causality. Its a little late for me to come up with any answers on how to help the Native Cultures that our forefathers obliterated. As you should already know Native American culture has been dead for over one hundred years and the next two hundred years will see the final destruction of the Native races as they are bred out of existence. To be quite honest I don't have an answer about what to do to help a culture and people who have been dead for over a hundred years. As I said the question is ludicris and absurd by its very nature and belies your complete and utter intellectual bankruptcy. As you have now illustrated that you are unable to understand simple concepts I will no longer respond to your pointless posts. If you wish to debate the fact of the Genocide then i will oblige. Otherwise piss off facist.
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"That makes me sad, not angry. When someone makes a joke at my expense or at my people's expense, I just shake my head and say, without any hint of anger, "That's just pathetic." When people get angry and start spouting their own brand of hate in the name of self defense, noone is served."
I totally agree. Although racists do make me angry I am just being honest. As I am an anglo-saxxon I have never experienced racism directed at me so I honestly cant comment on how it would make me feel if the comments were personally directed at me. -
i can't read his reviews anymore. it actually hurts my feelings.
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whatever - the bottom line is, if there wasnt any oil in that region - specifically right under it - we wouldnt be there or have such an invested interest - bush as prez was the perfect convergence of big-oil and jesus - its no secret that the reason bush has had 2 terms is because the bible thumpers play hard and dirty - they got him there and kept him there - the bush administration's rhetoric and policies (except for the international diplomatic kind, there are none) play to the fears of christians (all varieties) and thats why things are even more messed up today - believe what you want, but "agents" of the republican party rigged the last election and prevented over 350,000 voters in ohio from casting or being counted - kerry had it - exit polls dont lie - theyre never wrong (esp. by a mysterious unforseeable landslide) - and yet last election the exit polls were so utterly and completely wrong at last count - no ones that lucky
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for the "by the way, I'm an atheist" disclaimer. I mean, I have no doubt that it's true, but it seems to be a defensive maneuver to ensure other talkbackers won't go for a cheap-shot by generalizing the tb'er with the worst aspects of the particular religion. (Oh, and by the way, I'm a total atheist, which is my invisible force-field against religious criticism.)
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Military action in Iraq BEFORE 9/11. 9/11 just ended up giving them a really convenient "in".
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if it turns out to be shit. OK, Gibson obviously has some serious anti-Semite issues he needs to to something about and he's a nutty xian, but still he's no Leni Riefenstahl or, worse, Veit Harlan; I'll try to judge Apocalyto on it's own merits - or deficiencies. BTW, no such thing as a "historical Jesus" or Yeshua(wtf?) http://tinyurl.co.uk/bbxj
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I can see how Mel can be pissed at Jews within this time of events since all the slack given to him about the Passion, shit I was pretty pissed off myself that Jews continue to stereotype Christians as Jew haters at every given opportunity. Thanks a lot fellas... While Gibson's comment about them being responsible for every war on the planet is way out of line, quite possibly drunken hyperbole, some of you act like it's way out of line to even criticize Jews sometimes... Shit, I spend most of my time studying my own religion and the great sum of it is spent defending Jewish beliefs because they are foundational to mine. If you ever read that thing called 'The Bible' or 'The Torah' you'll often find God Himself criticizing His chosen people for being whiny and sinful most of the time. Whenever prophets arose trying to correct them, many of their own people attacked them. It's a turbulent set of affairs. Frankly, it occurs in every culture. In our age of political correctness and all that zero tolerence and self esteem shit, when issues are brought up everyone gets their panties in a twist... and the funny thing is the majority that is so asininely vocal aren't even aware of the intricacies of history, environments and other factors that are involved, everything is just black and white. The truth about the world today is that we jsut want to run and hide from all our problems and fiercely oppose anyone who dares disturb that balance and aren't strong enough to admit all our faults and get together and honestly tackle all the shit we're carrying around within us. It could shake us to our very cores...
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The movie looks wholly original and awesome, and I'll definately be checking it out. When does this thing release?
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There is no way I am going to pay a dime to see this movie. Who wants to give that anti-Semitic has-been more money?
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Surely you work for the FBI as a psychological profiler. Yes, it is here, on the aintitcoolnews message boards, in an Apocalypto talkback, where I have chosen to bare my sole and confess my peace with genocide and callousness toward all of Earth's native peoples. I shall forever suffer in the agony of your absence, now having seen the glory of your light but knowing that the gift was but a passing ray of light into the fetid cave of ignorance I share with my fellow consumer-sheep pricks. Hence, into blindness once again. Baaaaa-aa.
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I guess brokebackcowboy got himself banned, eh? Anybody know what he said/did?
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US, my country, control that sweet, sweet oil...better us than a bunch o' numbnut ragheads...
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"anti-Semitic", "AICN", "Perpetuate",
"Christian" (you fuckers already took "Christ" out of "Christmas" so end it already), "Apocalypto"
To those who think fundamentalist Christians are more of a threat than Islamic terrorists (or any kind of terrorist for that matter): Are you actually serious? How can you possibly rationalize that? You must have an extremely long list of phobias. Don't fear us, my child.
Harry, it's "awoken" not "woken". This is positive criticism. We all only want to see your language skills improve.
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You've had one hell of a career so far... Keep up the good work, Mr. Gibson...
You put the "A" in "A-Lister"... -
I quoth: "I've seen some dumb things said on these Talkbacks, but dumber than 'The Jews are responsible for all the war in the world.'? I don't think so." First off, I see your point. That's pretty fucking dumb, sure. But have stupider things been said by Talkbackers? Bet your ass on that.
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Looks to be a fantastic film. Mel is great. Mel is all powerful.
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I suppose you'll be joining the Marines so you can help take control of that sweet crude right? Hope you get back alive and maybe you'll get a discount at the pump.
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You don't have to go all the way back to the old testament to check out some atrocities caused by Jews, you could also just watch the news for the past 50 years or so.
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For one, Genocide involves the deliberate extermination of all people of a particular culture/race etc. The Jews were ordered only to kill those who remained within the city after countless warnings (circling the city) that they would attack. Those who fled the city to another land or joined the Hebrews were spared. Those Canaanites who remained in the city expecting their child sacrifice demanding god Molech or whatever to give them victory over Yahweh and fight the Hebrews were annihiliated. They did not bother to exterminate every last Canaanite, what they wanted was the land. And if the Hebrews themselves began acting like the Canaanites and sinned, they too would get their asses handed to them and be thrown out of their land, which is prtecisely what happened, but after a significant amount of time in exile, they'd get it back, which was waht also happened, more or less peacefully until the time the Messiah would be born (which is where Christianity comes in). Those sorts of rules for warfare etc. were outlined since Moses was leading them.
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every single catholic i've ever met has been fucked up in some way. my own husband, who isn't catholic but was forced to go to catholic school for 15 years, is fucked up because of it. some catholics are proud of being fucked up, some aren't. bottom line: mel is most certainly fucked up at some level. he has 7 children but he snorted coke and cheated assiduously on his wife for many years (so i guess making a racist comment is WAY worse than damaging your wife and children's lives?). and yet, like many artists, he continues to create films that resonate with people, or characters, or stories. i have to say i was smiling with pleasure after reading this review. not only was the jew topic avoided (coz it was unecessary and irrelevant), but harry's sex life was also absent. a pure, simple, thoughtful review of an interesting-looking project that definitely deviates from the upcoming onslaught of jessica simpson films and bloated dramas with dudes in bow ties, yelling. come on, guys. tell the truth. you were annoyed for about 2 minutes with mel's shenanigans and then you remembered that a)innocent iraqis were being slaughtered b)hurricane victims were still living in cardboard boxes and c)you liked braveheart. get over it.
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innocent americans are slaughtered too. and some innocent afghanis, some innocent canadians and probably a few innocent folk from the isle of man. point of my mini-tirade is, i have no real point. i just really liked braveheart.
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His work is becoming visionary and he's going to become a one of the great filmmakers. He's just comes across as such a shithead. Tom Cruise, hell he's amusing and it's going to suck if he gets more public heat than Mel Gibstien does. I'm going to find it hard to support the movie.
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apocalypto, road to el dorado, then ride the montezuma's revenge ride at six flags!
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Just to recap..."Xian" is not a Christ-less abbreviation. The "X" stands for the Greek letter, "Chi," which is the first letter of "Christ." It's an abbreviation Christians have been using for hundreds of years...long before "Xmas" became a politically-correct way of spelling the holiday.
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Why? Hard to support the man, sure, but just because Mel's an idiot doesn't suddenly make the camerawork inept, the direction juvenile, pacing sloppy and storytelling confusing. Without bringing Triumph of the Will into it ('cause that really does mix the medium with the message), You can't say that Leni Riefenstahl was a lousy photographer, for example (Passion is a weird one because if there's this anti-Jewish director why is he making a film that's ostensibly a love-letter to a Jew?). There are plenty of musicians out there who are complete arseholes, but you should be able to divorce the work from the personality unless it's inherently autobiographical. Anyway my point is don't be afraid to sing the film's praises if it's great. There's nothing to stop you gossiping about the crazy director afterwards. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
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Yeah! :)
Haha! -
I saw this today. It was fantastic. Where the hell is the write up for it on AICN? This film deserves some hype and word of mouth support. Where is it?
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Why do you any of you really care what Mel Gibson said when he was drunk? Or sober? How does that effect the quality of Apocolypto? Oh, right, it doesn't. At all.
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I don't know how to get the Greek letter for "rho" to show up on here. So I would personally appreciate all the Christmas haters to no longer use the "Xmas" abbreviation but instead use the "PXmas" abbreviation. You know, the PX symbol that Constantine put on his flags and shields. The P is above the X and the stem of the P intersects the X lengthwise. JUST DO IT, INTOLERATERS! And while you're at it...LAUS DEO!
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Brought up how you gushed over King Kong which turned out to be piece of crap and not the second coming of Christ.
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The Evangelicals spent a year praising "The Passion," denying that neither the film nor Gibson were anti-Jewish. Now it has been proven incontrevertably that the Passion was an anti-Semitic film. Have those who championed it apologized to the Jewish community?
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Sep 24, 2006 10:23:48 PM CDT
im confused what does this have to do with Transformers
by s0nicdeathmonkey
huh? isnt this the offical michael bay fan club?
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that's all
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youre aware that using your bible for proof is like using a snorkle in outer space, it might seem like it's better than nothing, but it really isnt.
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should be the new Mastodon cd, "Blood Mountain."
Holy fuck. I don't even like metal, but this shit will blow you away. -
Look at what America did to the natives here. Up to 10 million TOTALLY annihilated. And furthermore, your example is flawed. You use the bible as "proof" then mock the concept of divine intervention. Which is it buddy? Your rhetoric is inconsistent. Also, fighting over land is not the same thing as genocide. Your use of equivocation is both a logical fallacy and a poor use of it too.
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maybe you should just take those apologies and stick 'em somewhere. I mean are you serious? you guys really love to receive apologies, next thing you know you gonna ask for wiedergutmachung..
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you me the same way harrison ford talks about indie jones every fucking time one of his movies come out just to make us think of him as somebody we light to watch in the theater. he should have his ass kicked for that by the way. fucking prick.
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Top Ten Movies Mel Gibson Will Never Make
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so the top 10 films he wont make are: top ten movies he'll never make? dude that's some trippy zen odyssey 2001 shit right there.
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I keep calling Apocalypto, Eucalyptus. I dunno
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For a supposed movie talkback that mentions genocide at least 20 times, you'd think the word "Africa" would have appeared by now. You eurocentric consumer-sheep.
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Sep 25, 2006 6:03:33 AM CDT
In africa they're getting used to killing eachother off
by windowlicker74
, so it's not worth mentioning any more. Me, I'm much more interested in the top 10 movies Gibson wil never make.
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Yeahawww!!!!
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i can feel the haters really getting desperate now.. hahah!!!!!
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I'm looking at the pancakes.
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How dare you!
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gotten drunk and said something stupid?
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Oh, that's why the Lebanese don't like those poor Isrealites that much. it's all irrational.
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Mallick is definitely NOT for morons I can tell you that.
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I definitely disagree! And yeah, i know what you mean. Its just that I like making fun of your your arrogance and perception of your superiority above everyone else. Reeks of Neo-nazism I can tell you that.
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And what happened to DocPazazu?
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It appears so, m2298. Although I can imagine the reason, I'm not entirely sure what happened. *** I've got it on good authority that the venerable Doc is taking a break from AICN. His presence is missed on these boards.
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Is Mel a racist? A lot of talkbackers are going off on rants based on Mel Gibson alledged drunken statements to cops who were arresting him.Mel is supposed to have said." Jews are responsible for all the war in the world." Is that a racist statement? No,it's an opinion.A racist statement would be something like," I hate Jews!" or "All Jews should die!" Or at least something along those lines. Was Mel's statement all inclusive, meaning he believes Jews to be the cause of all wars through out human history. Or was he speaking only about the current conflicts we face in the Middle East. Only Mel knows how much thought and history went into his coming to believe such a thing. None of us on this site have access to that information. We only get what the media decides to force feed us. We immediately jump to conclusions and say, "He's a fucking racist!" " He's against Jews!" We don't know that! We have never asked Mel why he feels that way. He may have some valid points to why he's see's things as he does. Some talkbackers will call Mel a racist in one sentence and say they have an open mind in the next. Doesn't sound that way to me. Sounds like you've already made up your mind, Mel's a racist and that's it. That statement was an opinion and last I heard, in this country we were allowed to have those. Stop making such a big deal about one guy's opinion. If he wasn't Mel Gibson, no one would even know what he said in the back of that Police car. (Unless he got busted on an episode of Cops.) This political correct B.S. is sapping the very strenght out of this nation. If we got to sit around and worry about every word that may or may not come out of our mouths and who might be offended by it, what the hell did I serve ten and a half in the military for. Free Speech is a right in this country. One we shouldn't take lightly. Every individual has a right to there opinions, even a racist has a right to their world view. We need to stop being babies and start being adults. Mel didn't say he hated or disliked Jews. He just thought they were the root cause behind war in the world. Maybe his statement was based on his disagreement with Israel & American policies in regards to the war in the MiddleEast. That would be a safe bet because that war is on everyone's mind right now. Unfortunately a lot of folks keep silent in regards to the war becuase various groups from the Republicans, various Christian organizations and many media outlets have basically made it damn near anti American to have a view that differs from War!War!War!I say Fuck that! say what you feel, if you offend someone, so be it. Sometimes it's conflict and disagreement that keeps democracy alive.
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Got that right. Take a break anyways.
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Please tell me you're not trying to defend the brutally used against the Canninites with semantics of the word genocide.Look the Bible for all it's worth was written by men who in order to justify some of their most evil desires would often put" And God said unto me." before any brutal act they were under taking. The Jews wanted that land and they took it by force. And just like every nation before them and after, they justified it morally by lacing their history of it with God. America does the same thing today. Terrorist are evil extremist who attack us with no provacation. It doesn't matter that American policies have been fucking the Middle East for decades. One minute we're funding Saddam, the next were fucking him in the Butt. One minute we're helping Osama the next we're landing troops in Saudi pissing him off. Through all this crap God is on our side. Osama tells his folks, God is on their side. How about this, God is on know one's side. Not our's, not the Jew's, not the Arabs, not anyone. The bible say's,"God takes no pleasure in death." I've also heard said," God is love." The shit we do to each other in God's name ain't LOVELY. We need to stop whitewashing the murder of men, women and children with this it was God's will B.S. Wake up and smell the Coffee. None of us are no better than the next. Given the right circumstances we could all become a Nazi, a terrorist, a religious zealot, a murderer of men women and children. We are blessed to live in the safe haven of America, not really being touched by the ravages of war and American policy. We need to get off our high horse and understand that their is " no one good, not even one." STOP USING GOD AS A CRUTCH FOR OUR MURDEROUS ENDEAVORS.
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well, it just happens to be the other way around: Criticising Israel and its occupational/war mongering ways are being interpreted by Jews as Anti-Semitc. Ain't that convenient? You can just keep on going terrorizing your neighbours and no one would dare to criticize you..yes Anchorite, we know not all jews are Israelis sigh..
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That's ALL he said people. Everyone is crying racism (it's actually bigotry), saying that he's an anti-semite, etc. The media is once again controlling your own opinion blowing that one statement completely out of proportion and labeling Mel as having made Anti Semite slurs. Let me ask you this. Have you EVER told a joke about another religion or race?? In pure fun. Mexicans, african-americans, asians, Indians, etc? Never? Just imagine someone overhearing you when you did and then going to all of your friends, co-workers, family, hell, the whole damn world, claiming that you are racist or a bigot based off of that one little comment you made. Ridiculous isn't it? Fact is, Gibson made NO Jewish slurs at all. Yeah, he fucked up and was arrested for a DUI. He was caught making ONE comment about the Jews. A COMMENT. Not a slur. And he has owned up to it, apologizing to the Jewish community, whose rabbis have stated their forgiveness and said that they will pray for his recovery. Get off your soap boxes and like the bible says, "Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone."
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http://mesoamericanbandstand.ytmnd.com
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Only his hairdresser knows!
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or is it just the "Mel Gibson said something about Iraq and he's still an anti-semite" article?
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it's just the "Mel Gibson said something about Iraq and he's still an anti-semite" article. that's fuckin' weird and totally typical of Harry.
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NewLine's Nativity movie will undoubtedly depict Mary giving birth in painful labor, as previous films have done. However this is inaccurate, as labor pains are the result of sin (cf. God to Eve: "In pain you shall give birth") and since Mary was sinless, she was exempt from a painful delivery. Thus, showing the nativity as a painful labor implicitly denies Mary's sinlessness, and is heretical. Perhaps Mel would have known better, and thus I wish he had made the Nativity. Then again, aging and death are also wages of sin, (cf. God to Adam & Eve "The day you eat of it you shall be made to die.") and since Mary was sinless, she was immune to the decay of aging and death (hence the Assumption). Tradition reports that Dionysius the Areopagite, upon meeting the Blessed Virgin in Ephesus where she sojourned with St. John, declared that she appeared like a goddess, since she showed no signs of mortal aging. And thus Mel's Passion was also implicitly heretical, since he showed Mary decaying with age, whereas she should have been wrinkle-free. So maybe even Mel would not have gotten the Nativity right. What we need is a film maker learned in theology.
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I sent in three award winning shorts with the required self addressed receipt postcards, and still didn't even get those postcards back... such a burn!
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Okay, just a quick question. . . Nobody seems to care that Roman Polanski is a rapist child molester. He is hailed as a great director even though he brutally violated some 14 year old girl. Doesn't matter to the American people. But Mel gets drunk, says some stupid stuff, and everyone acts like Hitler has been reborn. Have none of you ever gotten trashed and said something really stupid that you didn't mean to a friend? Or, especially, a cop? This is a review of a film, not of Mel Gibson's personal attributes. So shut up and judge the film on it's quality, not the sins of the director who made it.
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That would be a fucking hoot
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DufusyteII, in your post you mention that Mary was sinless. Where in the bible does it state that? If Mary was sinless, what need of Christ. There are some problems with this logic. First, if Mary was sinless, or she was born in the same perfect condition as Adam and Eve were before the fall. That means sin had already been overcome in the flesh, Mary would have been a living example of that with her supposed sinless existence.So...what need of Jesus? Also, why bring Jesus into the picture to be a sinless sacrificial lamb if sinless Mary could have been offered up instead. Sin is transferred from generation to generation through the flesh. It's as if our DNA was altered because of the fall. It's almost not different than an woman with Aids transferring the disease to the child in her womb.Or a pregnant crack head doing the same. When god speaks of the woman now having great pain during child birth. This is a genetic change that will occur over time as humanity slowly degenerates from the perfect state of Adam and Eve to the state we find our selves in today.The effects of the curses were not immediate. Adam didn't have to Labor for food stuffs becuase the earth was still pristine and bountiful. All Plant life was watered from underneath the earth.It it grew very fast. It was only after centuries of abusing the earth did man have to really work for his harvest. It never even rained until the great flood of Noah. Even though God told them because of sin they would die. Adam and his kin lived for centuries, while we can barely squeeze out a few decades.If Mary was born of the flesh then sin and the possibility to sin was inside her. Her son Jesus was called both the Son of Man and the Son of God. Why? He was a son of man because of his flesh which came from Mary. He was called the son of God because of the Holy Spirit. Could Jesus have fallen into sin? Yes. The states that he was tempted in all ways just as we are. What was tempted? He was tempted through his flesh which came from Mary, which was weak because of the affliction of sin. If the weakness of sin was not found in Jesus's flesh then he could never be tempted as we are. He could never be an example to us all. Jesus had conflict. Before the cross he prayed and asked God to take this cup away from him. Meaning, in the flesh, Jesus wanted to live, he didn't want to die on the cross.But then through the spirit Jesus states," but your will be done. What makes Jesus such a powerful example is that he was tempted as we are and could have fallen at any time but he always followed his spirit and not the his flesh. Now him being born of the spirit may have purified his flesh of sin but the possibility to sin was always there. Finally in regards to Mary, if she was born of an earthly mother and father, then she was born in sin. Jesus died on the cross for her too. There was no one born sinless before Christ, if they were true why would Christ need to defeat something that had already been defeated in the flesh. Romans states,"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
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knossis, thank you for your thoughtful exposition and queries; most of the questions you raise were hot topics in the middle ages as theologians struggled with the same questions. The answers they arrived at: Yes Christ redeemed Mary, and her sinlessness is due to Him. The fact that her conception occured before His sacrifice is not significant, because God is eternal and for Him all things are Present. It was just as easy for Christ to redeem her "earlier" as it would have been "later." In all cases, Mary's sinlessness is due to Christ's redemption.
Sin is not transfered through the flesh in a physical kind of way; this was a heretical idea in the early centuries; St. Augustine spoke against this.
You may have heard that Mel drew inspiration from the writings of Anne Catherine Emmerich when filming the Passion; she was a mystic who described many visions about the life of Christ; indeed she writes about the entire history from Creation up through the first century AD. She has some very interesting things to say about Adam, Eve, and the generation of humans. She says that originally humans would conceive through the word, rather than through sex. Birth would also have been different. Adam and Eve never practiced this as they Fell before they did anything like this. Emmerich says that God granted a special grace to Mary's parents Joachim and Anne so that they conceived Mary in the original way, i.e., via the word. In this way she was conceived immaculate. Mary siilarly conceived Christ via the word, when she said her consent "Let it be done to me according to your word" and she thereupon conceived. When she gave birth to Christ, it was in the manner originally intended by God before the fall, painless; Emmerich describes it as light passing through glass without breaking the glass, and behold, the Christ Child was born.
Jesus could not sin because He is divine; that is, He is the measure of Goodness. You will notice also in the Old Testament God killed thousands of people in the Flood, and he ordered the massacre of the inhabitants of Canaan, etc. God can do all these things and God is always sinless. Jesus is God and similarly He cannot be judged by anyone, and He cannot be convicted of sin. To put it in the form of a syllogism: Jesus is God; God cannot sin; therefore Jesus cannot sin.
Meanwhile Mary did not sin because God's grace guided her on the right path, and she followed God's grace. Btw., when the angel declares her "full of grace" this is a hint for you that she is sinless. P.S.: not every theological truth has to be found in the Bible. If you restrict yourself to a "Bible Only" mentality, you will miss alot of things. Mary's sinlessness is a case in point.
When St. Paul writes that "all have sinned" he is making a generalization. Strictly speaking, Jesus did not sin; for that matter, neither did Mary. Some say that although St. Joseph was conceived in original sin, he never committed a personal sin; some suggest the same for St. John the Baptist. It is necessary to use good sense and good theology when interpreting verses of scripture. The Church is who teaches us how to read scripture, indeed the Church teaches us which books are Sacred Scripture and which ones are not. Please note that Christ founded a Church, indeed upon Peter He founded it, and He promised to send the Holy SPirit to guide it and keep it from error. Look to the Church, for it is the primary teaching office that Christ left for us. If you are just reading Scripture and winging it, you will end up with alot of erroneous ideas, as the multitude of protestant sects attest. -
Thanks for your response. I don't consider myself a Protestant or a Catholic.I did minor in Theology when I attended college though. In my studies I try to resolve all things logically. One of the issues I have with various interpretations of scripture,(when we go to any other source outside the bible for explanation, we are dealing with someone interpretation or opinion as to what this verse or that statement means.)is the nature of Christ and Mary. More so Christ than Mary. The bible does state that, Christ was tempted in all ways just as we are. Logically for him to be tempted there had to be a chance of him falling into sin. If someone can not sin, how can they be tempted. Temptation is not sin but a choice, when we are tempted our material nature(flesh) is in direct conflict with our spiritual nature. We sin when we give in to the flesh. We overcome when we succumb to the spirit. Now, if Jesus could never possibly sin, then he could never be tempted. He could never know the conflict that goes on within each persons being when the flesh desires one thing and the spirit another. Yet the bible states that he was in great conflict in the Garden before the cross. As I said in my early post. He asked his Father( God ) to let the cup pass from him.Meaning, he was looking for a way out of having to die on the cross. In the flesh, he wanted to live, maybe have a wife, kids etc. He had the same desire and weakness of the flesh as we do. If he could not possibly sin he could not have been tempted by self preservation at the cross or by Satan ealier in the Gospels. Why would Satan even attempt to tempt someone who could not possibly succumb to it.Jesus was the Son of God, in that you are correct. But so are we. We are all Son's and Daughters of God. We can overcome as Jesus did and become a Christ as he was. Greater things than these you will do in my name Jesus states.The bible is trying to reveal to us our true nature, what we really are. Something we forgot after the fall. We lost that connection with God. Christ life and death allows us to reconnect with God.He had to be able to be tempted as we were and overcome to show us it could be done. We can over come as he overcame. Once again I'm looking at this logically based on Statements made in the Bible. Trying to come to logical conclusions as to Jesus's nature in regard to what is written. I have researched both the apocrypha(sp???) and the prostestant bible. Other than some extra books that were not carried over to the bible( such as the Maccabees) they are exact, in regards to the statements made about Jesus being tempted as we were. Once again these thoughts are my logical interpretations or opinions.No different than St. Augustine's writings. Just something to think about. DufusyteII thanks for your thoughts they are much appreciated.Keep studying and growing spiritually.
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Even better!
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You gotta give it up for the cinematography at least!!!
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Thank you knossis for your thoughtful response. It's nice to see people can exchange views in a charitable manner. Regarding our knowledge of God, I reiterate that Christ founded a Church and endowed it with the mission to teach all nations, and sent it the Spirit to guide it and keep it from error. The Church and her authentic authoritative teachings are the surest source for us to learn the truth about God. Indeed, since the Spirit guides the Church, her authoritative teachings are infallible, that is, free from error. Indeed even before we pick up a Bible, it is the Church who teaches us which books are truly Sacred Scripture, and which ones are excluded. And then, once we have the correct books, it is again the Church which provides the correct interpretation. And additionally, there are truths about God that are not contained in Scripture, and the Church also teaches us these truths. So the Church is really where we need to look when seeking knowledge about God. Regarding the phrase that "Christ was tempted in all ways like us," we must understand this with good sense and in context, and not become fixated on this one verse and make it the basis of all theology. It means that Christ was truly human and suffered the trials of humanity, and the limitations of human nature. Christ took on a human nature when He became man (at His conception in the womb of the Virgin Mary); meanwhile Christ was also always eternally God, and continues to be so. Ever since He became man, He has two natures, Divine and Human. In virtue of his Divine nature, He cannot sin. In virture of His human nature being united to the Divine nature in one same person, His human nature cannot stray into sin. The devil attempted to draw Christ into sin because the devil was not aware that Chirst was indeed divine, as God hid this mystery from the devil; otherwise the devil would not have wasted his time. Indeed some say the devil was attempting to find out if Christ was divine by the temptations he was proposing. Also note that it is incorrect to always think "spirit=good" and "flesh=bad" because the devil is pure spirit and the devil is bad. So in this case "spirit=bad." In man, both the spirit and the flesh are fallen and weakened and out of wack. Man's spirit leads him into spiritual sins like Pride which is one of the worst sins. St. Paul was a polemic rabbi, and his writings often exagerate issues to make a point, as is typical of polemic rabbi's. As St. Peter notes in the Letter of St. Peter, "our brother Paul has written many things, some of which are difficult to understand correctly, and there are many people who misinterpret them and go astray." People who read St. Paul without the guidance of the Church often fall into this category. When Christ was in the garden, it is not certain what Cup He was referring to, as a Cup is a metaphor. The easiest interpretation is to think the Cup is suffering, and Christ's humanity was tormented at the prospect of immense suffering, which may be a correct interpretation. The bottom line is that He made a request of the Father, and He simultaneously expressed His acceptance of whatever the Father wills. There are many paths to Goodness, so requesting one thing does not mean He was requesting Bad versus Good. Instead He was requesting one Good while accepting a different Good if the Father wills it. It was a choice between two Good's, rather than a choice between Good and Bad. What was the good that Christ was requesting of the Father? That the Cup would pass away. What was the Cup? If it was suffering, then Christ was requesting to redeem humanity without enduring suffering; it would be easy for the Father to do this, that is to restore grace to humanity at the request of Christ even without requiring Christ to suffer. Then again, the Cup may have meant something else, so we cannot be certain what Christ was requesting of the Father. But it was not a sinful thing.
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I'm a white guy, and I'll admit that white people have committed some of the most hainus crimes known to man. Nearly every serial killer in history is a white man. The holocaust. Slavery. Apartheid. Thousands of years of other shit. I'll fess up to that. I'll admit it. Now, my wife is Jewish and even she will admit that a considerable percentage of all wars fought on earth involved Jews. It's true. Just look at the shit going on between Israel and Pakistan. How many conflicts have spawned from that shit? How many incidents have happened in the world that involve Jews at even the lowest level? Too many. Jews aren't evil, they're not antagonistic or wrong for existing, but there is some truth to what Mel said that night in a drunken slur in Malibu.
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huh?
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I don't think it was an elaborate movie, but it was pretty intense at the end. And the actor who played Jaguar was damn good.
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