Cool News
"Crusade": The Long Wait
Glen here...
With a fast bit of news re: the Babylon 5 spinoff series - Crusade.
Negotions to move the series from TNT (where the show has suspended production) to another
network are ongoing, and apparently moving a little more slowly than many of us would like.
Walter Koenig (who was preparing to reprise his B5 role of Alfred Bester on
Crusade before the series fell into stasus) recently indicated the Sci Fi Channel or FX
were the most likely candidates to become Crusade's new home. He said this at a science
fiction convention in Connecticut, I believe.
Good God I hope it's not FX. I don't get FX - and I don't know anybody who does!
So, The Long Wait continues...
I can sense from the Talkbacks...and the numerous e-mails & phone calls I have received in the
last few weeks...that fan & viewer tensions about this show are waaaaayyyyyy high right about now.
Accordingly, if all goes as planned (which it might not - as my plans involve some technical &
logistical slights-of-hand), look for a few Crusade surprises later this week here on on
Coaxial. Probably Wednesday or Thursday.
Might help to take the edge off a little...
((Glen Note: let's stay cool on these Talkbacks, people. Don't even think about going where
some of you went with the last CRUSADE Talkbacks. If that happens, banning and deletion will be
swift, absolute, and carried out with extreme prejudice !!!))
Glen
Or call:
(512) 347-1992
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+ Expand All
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Heh. I just wanted to be the first person to talk back.
As JMS says, "Faith Manages" and we'll hopefully get Crusade one day.
rich
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What the hell is FX? Sorry, but I'm just some poor Canadian shmoe, who isn't up on his US cable network knowledge...
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FX is the network that markets itself as "Fox gone cable". I didn't pay them any attention until last year when they picked up the rights to show X-Files reruns five nights a week, and they've treated that show very well. As far as I'm concerned they'd be a great new home for Crusade, but I get both FX and SFC, so I'm flexible.
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I do get FX, out here in Kentucky, so it's not that impossible to get. And since we DON'T get Sci-Fi Channel, I think it would be kind of cool.
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So FX is owned by Fox... Do they produce, or fund any frst run shows? If so which ones?
PS Of course FX would treat X-Files well, since apparantly it's owned by fox... -
I hope it doesn't show up on Pax or Fox Family.
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I wouldn't mind if the Sci-Fi Channel pick up Babylon: Crusade series, as long as it is NOT FX! I would RATHER NOT pay for an extra premium channel like FX just to watch the new series. I get Sci-Fi Channel on my cable, but FX can go to hell if they pick up the Crusades series! TNT and all of their executives will go to hell for losing faith in Babylon 5 series. I used to watch a lot good shows and movies on TNT (with an exception of WCW) but now that's all Western movies and E.R. episodes. Piss on TNT!
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Before you get too pissy about TNT, let's recall that they
made season 5 of B5 possible, and brought us the "movies" and
financed the startup of Crusade. That's a LOT and should not be
forgotten just because our ways are parting now. How soon we bite
the hand that has been feeding us until only recently. -
Well, in the Washington D.C. area they get FX, and I believe it is on basic cable. They air all the classics, like A-Team (now they jsu tneed to add Riptide!) and, The X-Files, of course, plus some of their own Regis and Kathy Lee-type shoes. FX would be a good home. I'll find the e-mail address for their programming department and put a link up on my website, http://babylon5.acmecity.com/garibaldi/6. Long live the Crusade!
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I'd be more than happy to send you a copy, because (gasp!) I actually get FX. It blows major chunks, but I get the bloody channel. And a bit of irony... TNT was the most watched cable channel in 1998. For what reason, I don't know, but any channel they go to will likely result in new people watching the series... or so I think... I don't really know... or care... if it even gets on, I'll be happy. Besides, i get like 100 different channels.
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Believe it or not... WCW...
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While I recognise that TNT helped bring us s5, I also know that they promised a great deal and delivered it very poorly. Primarily I am talking about the schedule changes and pre-emptions and endless fiddling with how B5 aired. TNT was obviously dedicated to their money makers, WCW and NBA. Fine. I can understand that. But that does not excuse their public statements being broken time and time again.
Their interest in B5 seemed to vanish sharply as the season wore on. -
Anyone in the US can get FX if they want it. It is available via a mini-dish from DISH network. My package from them includes both Sci-Fi and FX so I'm set either way.
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Noo!!!!!!
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sheesh its because you live in the styx Glenn....hehehe JUST KIDDING MAN THAT WAS A JOKE!!! Actually FX is a cool Network they dont have ANY original programs yet...and I didnt know they were even considering BUYING ANY new shows let alone were in the runnign for Crusades...FX just got finished showing "X-files complete conspiracy" ten full nights of nothing but the 26 BEST conspiracy episodes IN ORDER!!!
bitch to your local cable company if they dont carry FX...ITS GREAT!!!!!! -
The WB would be the perfect place for the new show. The network heads have already shown that they are willing to give shows time to build an audience. And they have had a lot of success with other hour-long shows (Buffy, 7th Heaven, Dawson, Charmed). Just the variety of that list shows that the WB would be a good home. Plus, they are about ready to kick off their own cable outlet for the network. This could be a high profile show to add along with Angel and the other shows.
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Just for the record: fx is not
a premium cable channel on every
cable system (say, like Showtime).
I live in Arkansas, and fx is
basic cable while SciFi is
actually part of the premier
package (you get to pay $5/month
for the cable box and about 10
more channels).
Also, I heard that every cable
system run by TCA Cable will be
getting fX as part of basic/standard cable soon. -
I have seen people on here posting that FX does not have any original programing. Well, this isn't the case. They do have original shows, but they tend to be of the variety sort and not of the fictional sort. For example, some of their original shows are "Penn and Teller Sin City Spectacular", "Bobcat's Big Ass Show", and "Instant Comedy with the Groundlings". I can see Crusade on FX, esp if they are wanting to branch out into original series type programing. I get both FX and SCI-FI, so either would be fine with me.
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Well, this Talkback section makes it abundantly clear that trying to find a home for "Crusade" that will be acceptable to everyone, or even a sizeable fraction thereof, is pretty much a fool's errand. Gazing into my crystal ball, I see a semi-return to the syndication days, where fans who have basic-tier access to FX or Skiffy Channel will be busily shooting off tapes to the less fortunate folks in areas where B5 is on a premium channel or not shown at all. Is it a hassle? Hell yes....but there can be corollary benefits. Maybe part of the reason so many long-time fans like to wax nostalgic about "the old days" is because of the annual drama they experienced just trying to keep the show on the air. After all (I say only half in jest) what's an sf show without at least a couple cancellation scares and a fan campaign or two?
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First off, I have to say that the TNT announcement totally caught me offguard, but I knew we were in trouble when B5 reruns got pushed back to 4. TNT had to make room for such "intellectual" peices like Due South and it's ilk.
But it doesn't stop there. Between the lock-out and then lack there of, I almost missed "Call to Arms" And I now appear lucky to get this last B5 fix before the "thousand years of darkness".
Now, I'm a bit bitter, but I must turn off my rant mode for a moment. No matter how angry we are now, we must remember that TNT did give us a home for nearly two years. (in fact, if not for TNT, I never would have gotten hooked in the first place) So let us not hurl rocks, but part in silence. And if fate and luck are on our side, we will all meet again on the bridge of the Excaliber.
In Valen's name, my fellow nerds, geeks, and "slightly mal-adjusted individuals"
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I depend on Coaxial almost exclusively for my television information, so I am sorry if I am bringing up a subject already covered elsewhere, but is TNT removing B5 from it's weekday line-up?
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Actually, and so it resumes would be more accurate. We've all been here before, haven't we? Long waits between seasons of B5, the renewal waiting games.
Will Crusade be picked up? You've gotta believe it will turn up somewhere. Warners/TNT/whomever has spent a fair chunk of change getting this far. I doubt that money will just be written off. We'll just have to be patient.
Faith manages, as someone says...
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The title of this post is not what it looks like. It's not that I don't care about Crusade, but just the opposite. I think JMS is the best thing ever to happen to television sci-fi. I don't live in the US so I don't give a shit on what cable network it will be shown, since I won't be able to see it anyway, or maybe 3 years afterwards on some local tv network. Ah hell, I'll buy the videos as usual. It's worth the wait. But I DO care a lot that it finds a home, since whereever it's shown, Crusade MUST become a reality and I don't care when or if I'll be seeing it anytime soon, as long as the series will be done. Don't let the nightmare come true and have us endure years and years of more Star Trek spin-off's as the only sci-fi to watch.
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FX is much preferable to the Sci-Fi channel. Where I currently live I don't get the Sci-Fi channel but I do get FX. Crusade would do nicely on FX. I would still prefer the WB network, but JMS said somewhere that the WB wouldn't work.
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Well, I must agree that the most important thing is that CRUSADE gets picked up and is broadcast SOMEWHERE! Since it looks like some of us will be "left out" whichever cable station picks up CRUSADE, perhaps we could try to work out a "video exchange ring" where somebody makes copies of CRUSDADE & send it to someone else who makes copies, etc. If we work together, we can all see it without too much of a delay!
Remember what Susan said, "Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations, there would never be another. It changed the future and it changed us. It taught us that we have to create the future or others will do it for us. It showed us that we have to care for one another because if we don -
Augh, if FX picks it up I will have to go through more tape swapping! I once swapped blank tapes for eps of "American Gothic" & never got any of them. The guy took money & tapes from who knows how many people on the listserv and used them for his own purposes. AG fans will probably know who I'm talking about. Fortunately, the SciFi channel has aired all the AG eps. I hope "Crusade" gets picked up soon by some network, but I also hope I won't have to wait years for it to be released on videotape just to can see it.
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I see quite a few of you don't have FX and are a bit upset about the prospects of Crusade going there. Well, I don't get Sci-Fi, so now you know how it feels. Even though I do get FX, I just hope it gets to SOME channel. If its FX, great, I'll be able to get it. If its Sci-Fi, then I'll find a local B5 fan with a satellite dish and get them to tape it for me or something. As long as it gets broadcast somewhere, I will find a way to get access to the episodes. Faith manages.
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The problem for Canadians is two-fold. We can only get stations like FX and Sci-Fi if we shell out for a dish (at least in the West). If we can't do that, we have to wait patiently to see if any local stations are allowed to pick it up. Which is never a given. TNT always was greedy about handing the international rights out, and any other network might be similar. Sigh...
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We jumped the cable ship for the Dish Network at Christmas and we haven't looked back. For what we were paying for our cable service we get more channels, and a great signal. We get fX, WB, SciFi, TNT, etc. etc. Dish has some purchase incentives right now like rebates on the equipment, so check 'em out. (www.dishnetwork.com). I don't work for 'em, I'm just a very satisfied customer. Oh, and I heard on the news today that next month cable rates will be deregulated. Yikes. ===== In other matters, JMS said on CompuServe on 1 Feb, "WB Network is out of the question, due to the way WB is structured. It's a very long, corporate story, just
take my word for it...SFC is the best option for us." -
Okay, so JMS has said that the WB is out, but what about UPN. They could pick it up for a season and then pull a TNT hoping to kill it! ;) (I have FX, (the fox rerun channel) and have to get "digital cable" to get the scifi channel.) Ray.
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Ok I was the one who goofed up and reported that FX does NOT have original programing (which is kinda stupid since I was WATCHING "Penn & Teller Sin City Live" at the time of the post...D`OHH!! ANYWAY...what is this I heard about JMS **NOT** wanting to use the WB network???? I'd like to heard ANYTHING that ANYONE has heard on this, please. NOT because I'm a disbeliever, its just that I havent heard anything about this little "the Buffy" network even being considered for "B5:Crusades" and that WOULD SOLVE everybodys problems of getting the show. (well not EVERYBODY) WB is **MY** choice for a new B5 series. What has JMS been saying about this?? --McKracken...
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thanks Xrae...any additional information on this matter would be of great help!! (also I think UPN is out of the question also)
now its up to the Sci/Fi channel. And since it looks VERY likely that Sci/Fi channel will be ending/cancelling "Sliders" :O( in the near future, (if not next season) they are going to need a replacment series......and that would be? -
Well, several people have noted this, and I think they're right:
Thank you, TNT, for picking up B5 at the end of Season 4, for giving us Season 5, In The Beginning, Thirdspace, River of Souls, A Call to Arms, and the Guide to Babylon 5. I appreciate what you did, and supported you for it.
Also, screw you TNT for the poor way you handled B5 at the end. Moving it around to increasingly unwatchable time slots, not giving A Call to Arms any publicity, and worst of all, for the shoddy way you've handled Crusade. I supported TNT when they supported B5, now that they don't, I won't. Let WCW and the NBA reign on TNT, 'cos I can just delete the channel from my remote and not have to be bothered by "Due South".
I can't help but to wonder though: why TV? At this point, we've all been through this nonesense so many, many times. There's no TV venue that has the widespread distribution that B5 needs. Why not get creative and use DVD, the Internet, or just go straight to cinema? This seems like a futile exercise, destined to put us right back here yet again in what, one year, two years? With all due respect, faith may manage, but when you've been bashed in the head repeated, you start to ask "why am I doing this"?
The 5 year history of B5 has shown me that TV is a dead medium. Other shows with so much less quality as to be laugable are in their 4th season on UPN, and have no problems with renewal. SNL continues to air in spite of the fact that some say an act of congress should be passed to put it out of our misery. For us to continue trying to get B5 on TV seems just more of the same head beating. Why not explore other possibilities? I'd buy if it went right to video. Hell, I'd get a bloody fractional T1 if they released it on the Internet.
If SciFi seems viable, the I guess go for it. But, why should we believe SciFi? We believed WB syndication, we believed TNT.
Oh, it was metioned that FX has done a nice job with X-Files. I think that's 'cos Fox owns X-Files. They don't have the same vested interest in B5. Actually, they have anti-vested interest. Fox and Time-Warner don't get on much, and B5 is part of the Time-Warner universe. Again, another reason to get out of TV entirely. -
To calm Cpt. Zab's fears, SPACE has purchased the rights to Crusade, so it will be available nationally in Canada. Presumably the only effects the current TNT troubles will have on Crusade in Canada are if the plug gets pulled on Crusade altogether, or if the new American network wants to delay Crusade's premiere.
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FX or SF channel it makes no difference out here in the sticks in Illinois where the local cable station carries neither one. Arghhhh.
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I've been doing some research through the Hollywood Reporter archives and have found some reasons why the SciFi Channel may be going slower than expected.
I found an article from November with the following show's listed in development:
"As for Sci-Fi, USA is in development on "Metropolis," a present- day drama executive
produced by Spike Jonze who will direct the first episode. Written by Jason Hightman, the story takes
place in a fictitious town and focuses on two beat cops who investigate absurd and paranormal calls. "Invisible Man," based on the H.G. Wells title and written by Matt Greenberg, and "Force of Nature," a werewolf drama executive produced by Michael
Lansbury, written by Stu Werbin and directed by Barbara Koppel, are produced by Studios USA."
They've also already committed to some Francis Ford Coppola series. I'm just speculating, but perhaps the fact that they already have original series of their own in the pipeline produced by their own studio, may make them less inclined to take something else. Or, at the very least, it could spark a lot of internal discussion before committing right away.
BTW, I would be intrigued to see something by Spike Jonze. -
I have to agree with several responses that express the "just get it on the air " sentiment...
I do believe that Crusade will air somewhere/somewhen... WB has spent too much $ not to try to recoop the expense... Plus given B5's European popularity, the steady additional income from the growing merchandising, and the fact that B5 ultimatly made a profit - I suspect that WB will not simply write-off the 1st season of Crusade...
JMS has stated that due to internal office politics (i.e. the "Dubba Bee" network is actually an entirely different unit/division than the unit responsible for B5 - hence the show is largly dismissed by those responible for network planning...) it seems unlikely that the show would air on the WB.
Similarly - given the years of bad blood between Warner Bros and
Paramount - UPN also appears to not be an otion... -
My search through the Hollywood Reporter Archives came up with more interesting stuff.
This was in an article about their acquisition of Coppola's "First Wave" which joins Sliders and Poltergeist: The Legacy" on their originals schedule this March.
Here's a quote....
"Bonnie Hammer, senior vp programming, said all the series will most likely run on Fridays. They represent the network's move to A BROADER AUDIENCE OF SCIENCE FICTION PROGRAMMING than the 'CULT FAN BASE THAT PREFERS SPECIAL EFFECTS AND SPACESHIPS'"
The capitalization was mine. I added it for emphasis. -
My search through the Hollywood Reporter Archives came up with more interesting stuff.
This was in an article about their acquisition of Coppola's "First Wave" which joins Sliders and Poltergeist: The Legacy" on their originals schedule this March.
Here's a quote....
"Bonnie Hammer, senior vp programming, said all the series will most likely run on Fridays. They represent the network's move to A BROADER AUDIENCE OF SCIENCE FICTION PROGRAMMING than the 'CULT FAN BASE THAT PREFERS SPECIAL EFFECTS AND SPACESHIPS'"
The capitalization was mine. I added it for emphasis. -
let's face it they do, they were the ones who gave us great programming like Guyver and Sliders. They never should of taken Sliders, because it was already damaged goods especially since Wade didn't come back and the Professor was killed, and what was up with the new Maggie (she looked like a bad Amanda from Highlander impersonator). These people are also the ones who have the rights to Dr Who and War of the World and don't show these series (2 very unique scifis). But I can't bitch too much they retained Friday the 13th:the series, but that was my first experience where everything you thought was good in the 80's is actually not that great (but that was a show that didn't stop at scaring me as a kid). Sci-fi channel needs Crusade, they need to diversify and actually put on decent shows (unlike their refusal to drop MST3000). Crusade has so much potential, even to beat out star trek at its game of deep space exploration. But it will be a difficult journey trying to defeat Next Generation, it was one of the best scifi's. It did suck in its 1st two seasons and tended to have way too many open ended threads in subsequent seasons, which were never fully developed.
But let me leave on a high note, who else is happy to hear that Bester survived the teep war. He is one of the greatest sci-fi villians, along with Khan from star trek, Dukat from DS9, the aliens from Dark City, the cop from T2 and Morden. -
I live in Montreal and only have access to about 5 basic English channels (Fox is a premium network for us!!) But thank be to the gods, one of our local stationsP(CFCF) has ALREADY signed up for Crusade... Ofcourse this means it will take B5's old Tuesday Midnight timeslot, but at least I will be able to tape it... Now if only I can get my buddies copy of ACTA...
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This is a lot like what is happening to Warner's 'BRIMSTONE' series on FOX. FOX is planning to cancel it because it won't give it enough of a chance to find a solid audience, and now its fans (me included) are doing what we can to have the Sc-Fi Channel pick it up. I have to admit that I wasn't a B5 fan from the beginning, but in the first season, I got hooked. Now, I want the best for B5: Crusade because the B5 syndicatin years were terrible as the timeslot was changed like twice a season, and TNT did treat B5 poorly with its scheduling, and now that B5 is on @ 3 in the afternoon here, I don't get to see it except on Tuesdays & Thursdays (I have classes during the airtime). I completely agree that B5 is the best sci-fi series of the 90's, and one of the best of all-time. It's wierd how these things happen. STAR TREK started-out on a network, it struggled to stay on the air w/several timeslot changes. ST hits syndication, and it becomes the biggest thing in the world of sci-fi. With B5, it was just the opposite, in a way. We start out in syndication, struggle with changing timeslots, and basically staying on the air. We goto a (cable) network, and we get bigger exposure, better deals to advance the series w/t.v. movies. Although, when we go for a spin-off series, we're getting ripped-off. I'd hate to say this, but I think that either way we go, we won't get all that better of a deal. Yes, Sci-Fi Channel would handle the series better, but if they put it on for a Monday timeslot, I think it's a bad deal. Unless you have a strong, already established audience for the show/series, Monday is a bad spot for a show. Monday nights have Monday Night Football, the endless Monday Night Ratings Wars between the WWF & WCW, high-rated t.v. series, and just so much more. Wednesdays, Thursdays, or Fridays would be best. The weekend wouldn't be good. ABC tried putting SUPERMAN on Saturday nights and it failed. Sunday night programming is filled with big movie events, high-rated t.v. series, and the occasional football game. I simply believe that the main problem B5 has had is scheduling. I mean, look at UPN. They had a 95% new line-up of shows every season until recently, and they still struggle. Timeslots & scheduling are the main problems most shows have today. Movies have been going downhill within the last 7 or 8 years, but I believe the new STAR WARS movies may change that. That kind of thing will revitalize a good amount of the movie industry. In television, we have great shows getting cancelled all the time because the stupid t.v. execs don't know how handle timeslots, publicity, or anything else. FOX could've advertised BrimStone during the SuperBowl, but they failed to do so. Yet, they advertised the hell out of 'FAMILY GUY' & 'THE X-FILES.' Why? Because FOX owns those shows. So now, when they cancel BrimStone, we're getting "WHEN VENDING MACHINES MALFUNCTION" shows. Also, another (and final) example of how scheduling is vital to a show is that FOX had MARRIED...WITH CHILDREN on Sunday nights for who knows how long, and it became one of their highest rated and one of the longest-running sitcoms of all-time. FOX moved IN LIVING COLOR around to different timeslots all the time and was cancelled after about five seasons because of it. If you keep a show at one, good timeslot long enough, you'll have success. Also, look at COPS & AMERICA'S MOST WANTED. They've changed timeslots probably once in their long, long reign. So, if B5:Crusade can be signed to a network that will give it a good, solid timeslot that won't be interrupted or changed unless it is absolutely neccessary, then they've got a good deal. -NJM
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I loved Babylon 5 more than any other television show. I've never been as hooked on a show as I was on Babylon 5. I've enjoyed other shows, some sci-fi, some not, but none have hooked me as Babylon 5 did. I am very anxious about Crusade and I have come up with a few suggestions about what can possibly be done to help it reach the airwaves:
#1. Compromise with TNT. Maybe it's 'selling out', but how hard could it really be to 'add a little wrestling' here and there? I mean: drama ensues, cliffhanger, we're on the way to commercial and the captain bodyslams one of the crew for chuckles. Throw in a backbreaker here, a suplex there... Crusade's on - everybody's happy.
#2. Appeal to base desires - add nudity. I'm sure JMS could write something good for this. "Humanity has evolved to the point where they are no longer ashamed of their beautiful, smooth and ridiculously proportioned bodies and no longer need to hide behind clothes." This GUARANTEES a pretty decent market share. Look how well ridiculous amounts of cleavage does for Deep Space Nine!
#3. Product placement. To get Crusade on the air, I could easily look past the crew strolling around the bridge in genuine LEVIS Jeans or cracking open an ice cold BUDWEISER beer. I'd just wind up screaming "IT WAS NECESSARY!!" to myself a lot, but I can handle it. For Crusade I can handle it.
#4. My final idea is that we get eight hundred thousand fans together, each chip in a dollar and go to Warner Brothers and purchase the episodes for ourselves. I think I had a fifth one but it's probably illegal.
-- ZK. -
Am I the only one who thinks that maybe canceling Crusade isn't a bad thing? I was a fan of B5 from the begining but it peaked at the end of the 3rd year. I appreciate JMS speeding up the plot during the 4th year to complete the story "just in case" but the 5th year was largely "epilogue" and the "tv" movies haven't been much better than an average episode. Let the show end rather than one of those wasting pitiful drawn out affairs.
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Well, my friends, my constitution has broken. Sharing a room with a wrestling fan, I had the distinct displeasure of viewing WCW NITROUS OXIDE THUNDER or whatever the hell it is. Well, what struck me where the thousands of fans throwing millions of dollars away to see a man beat with a folding chair (They should of visited my highschool, but thats a different story) Then I figured it out. How many times did we loyal fans pack an arena to see Sheridan kick some Shadow ass? IT'S A VISIBILITY THING PEOPLE. TNT was not aware of us, em mass, so they gave up on us. Well, anyway, since I don't see any mass uprisings or orgainized marches in the near future (yes, I passed on the obvious Crusade pun, but feel free to make your own), I guess I give up. We are not gonna win this one, I think...Crusade is gonna die on the cutting room floor, and we are going to be harrased by whatever spit and polish sci-fi the establishment feels like throwing at us. At this point, I'd like to thank the great sci-fi gods for the X-files, for it has become my last home on television. But anyway, to get back to the point, I have decided to join the masses...I'm gonna crack open a case o' beer and watch some steroid-ridden men in bathing suits clobber each other. And you ask why I'm slowly dribbling whats left of my brain from my nose and ears. Well, because...Stone Cold said so....
My god, we're doomed.
In Valen's name. -
Most of us, myself included have a lot of blood, sweat and tears invested in B5. We've suffered through so many diffuculties to view this wonderful show (nee, vision) that JMS has provided. B5 has been an experience, a journey for all of us.
Perhaps it is best that JMS not allow the show to be corrupted, and if Crusade never materializes I'll be happer than if it was compromised.
SO I SAY, wait until the time is right. Lucas has gone 15 years before a sequel, Roddenberry ~15. ATTN:JMS WAIT!!!
The phoenix will rise again... so will B5, more glorious than before!
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Ok, So maybe TNT has fouled up, Many people say they ruined season 5 by having too much creative control, But as one person who missed babylon 5 from season 2-4 becuase my local TV station showed it at 2am, i am very grateful for TNT re-running the series, I've now gotten to see all from Season 1 - 4 which i would have had to buy on video tape if they had not shown, As for Crusade, At this point We should spend more time and energy into emailing writing letters etc to Sci-Fi instead of bitching about what TNT has and has not done, TNT will not be showing crusade, Thats a given, So do we try and find a new Venue or do we sit back and watch the series die?
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while we're on the subject of TNT and Season 5 of B5, I really have to say something... am I the only one who DIDN'T think that Season 5 was as dreadfully bad as everyone else thought it was? Granted, "a view from the gallery" and "learning curve" were total filler episodes, but were they more enjoyable than "grey 17 is missing" or most of the crap first season episodes? I think so, at least. Of course, to be fair, they didn't have Michael O'Hare or Claudia Christian, either. But even though he was annoying, whiny fop, Byron was necessary to the plot, setting up the Teep War... as for Lochley, I grew to like her after a while. I could have dealt without her walking around in her underwear and her porn-star-meets-Linda-Hamilton-tanktop-turn in "A Tragedy of Telepaths," but all in all, I think she did quite well, considering the situation that got her in to the show in the first place. I really think that if you watch Season Five re-runs on TNT (they start tomorrow), and watch them in order, without the NBA-imposed break that we all dealt with, it will seem a lot more coherent, a lot more canon, and a lot less filler than you thought it originally.
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Feb 10, 1999 10:02:42 AM CST
B5fans, like Trekkies, are a bunch of intolerant near-neo-Nazis!
by ilvenshang
Jeez, people, listen to yourselves:
Whinewhinewhine...Due THouth ith thtupid...whinewhinewhine...
THifi Channel ith thtupid because it thaved thtupid THliders...it thaved thtupid
EmEthTeeThreeKay(MST3k)...
whinewhinewhine...TNT ith
thtupid becauth it runth thtupid
WCW.
*lisp off*
If B5 is the most enlightened & intelligent show on television, how come it attracts self-righteous morons like you?
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No, landboat, you are not the only one who enjoyed season 5! Now I freely admit that I am a MAJOR B5 fan (the show helped me to think about issues which I needed to face in order to get through a particularly hard time), but I throughly enjoyed season 5. No it wasn't perfect & the initial necessity of "starting over" was a bit frustrating, but I am eternally grateful for the chance to find out what happened to these characters. If you take B5 as a single story (which is how I believe it was intended), then the MAJOR EVENTS happened in season 3 & 4 and then season 5 showed us how the characters went on from there. It wasn't as clymactic, but I wouldn't trade all of those goodbye scenes in the last 5 episodes for anything. For me, they gave the saga completion. Also, think of all the development that Michael, Lyta, Londo & G'Kar, and, to a lesser extent, Lennier went through. I think season 5 allowed us to get a glimpse of what happens next & I ate it up! Now all of this is ONLY my opinion, season 5 WAS different from the rest & I certainly respect (& can understand) the opinions of those who didn't like it as much, but FOR ME an "epilogue" was a rare and cherished gift. In Valen's Name, John
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On the one hand, many of the criticisms leveled at B5's fifth season were accurate; scientific accuracy was thrown out the window on several occasions (most notably the Starfury in "No Compromises"), Sheridan's character and presidency were totally undeveloped up until the last eight or nine eps (for instance, not once did we see him doing anything vaguely presidential, such as a press conference or a photo op), the Lochley/Sheridan marriage and the Lochley/Garibaldi rivalry were equally illogical and pointless, and quite a bit of the dialogue was more heavyhanded and expository than in previous years. On the other hand, my opinion of S5 improves with each viewing, as its good traits become more apparent. On the gripping hand, I think that S5 was for the most part a positive step...it showed that JMS was willing to experiment with his show's format, developing the peripheral races and characters much more than had been done previously, and dishing out quite a few surprises along the way (Garibaldi's relapse being the most satisfying of these, and much more convincingly handled than in "Survivors"). All in all, S5 was a year of extremes: deep, deep flaws mixed in with truly great moments of emotion and profundity.
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Shame on TNT, shame on WB and shame on everyone who wishes Crusade doesn't air. Those of us who have been fans from the beginning, have "stuck it out" through the time changes, day changes, possible cancellations, network changes and general BS that always seemed to surround the B5 series. It is a well written series and as a product does not appeal to the average television fan because they just don't get it. Any show that requires you to remember what happen last week (or in the case of B5, last season) to understand a plot twist is just too complicated for the WCW fans who make up a great deal of TNT's market share. Intelligent programming is not what the "great savior" TNT is looking for, they seek the almighty $$. We owe them no loyalty, they did what they did for money not for us and certainly not for Babylon 5! JMS take your great vision somewhere else, Scifi channel, FX channel, hell take it to Bob's tv for all I care!! My local station will pick it up because it will make money, just as the original series did. WB showed a lack of vision and we moved to TNT. Now TNT is showing a lack of vision and someone else will pick it up. Do you know why? It is a good show, well written and engaging and we do not have enough of that on television today and every local station has someone in programming who is idealistic enough to believe good television is what people want.
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If your local company doesn't satisfy, let me strongly recommend that you invest in a satellite system. I've roomed with some guys with it, and the quality of picture and sound is absolutely fantastic. I watched all of B5 with no snow, interferance, or distortion, and got to see "In The Beginning" in all it's digital glory. Also, the "basic" package of satellite services almost always have more channels than any cable company ever has, and if you want just one extra channel (instead of having to pay for a bunch of them), you can select it with the touch of a button, or a quick phone call.
That having been said, I'd like to express my preference for Crusade. I'd actually rather it be shown on FX, for two reasons. 1) On a network that isn't dedicated to one type of audience, we will get a bigger viewing audience, meaning more ratings (hopefully), meaning more of a chance for Crusade to run it's full course with as much of a budget as can be managed. 2) Hopefully, we may get other shows we love to air on FX this way, since they will naturally want as many shows as they can get on there THAT ARE ACTUALLY WATCHED. If a picture is truly worth a thousand words, then all we need do is get folks just to watch the bleeding show, and all else will fall into place.
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I admit I thought the first half of the season was very very very slow. I had a problem with the look of the station, the corridors didn't look the same as previous seaons, they were brighter. The ep with the Drazi extortion of planets with the help of raiders, view from the gallery and learning curve were really not neccessay, they could of made those arc points for buildup with better plots. They didn't need to do the perspective of the rangers ep because later on they had one with mediitions on the abyss which was much better. But the moment we saw the good side of Lockley in Tragedy of the Telepaths, most of our hearts began to beat faster (at least the guys who saw her) and it didn't slow down till the season was over, and it still hasn't especially with ACTA and the anticipation of Crusade. Let's face it Lockley's body was good luck, even if not for her personality early in the season (but she became more interesting, especially when she confronted the attacking centauri ship and Lyta). One thing I hope for in the new series is that we won't have any more Sheridan cowboy lines like "Get out of our galaxy" or the cheesy forced romance moments as seen in View from the Gallery and in the end of Thirdspace where Delenn and Sheridan try to act cute, I seriously wish I could of pulled the trigger on them myself, I wanted to gag. But I suspect we will be getting a lot of cool lines, especially from Galen, remember ACTA--"If our dreams come true, what of our nightmares"---one of the smoothest lines I have ever heard.
Peace, Power, Principles and Prosperity People -
My wife and I have been happy, satisfied Dish Network customers going on a year now. 100 cable channels for <$30 a month! Highly recommended, especially if you want to give cable the finger!
BTW, I think F/X is a cool channel, and would love to see Crusade there, but I'm not particular. I've god just about every damn channel there is anyway! :^) -
I don't have much to add to the discussion of where Crusade ends up (altho' as visual effects art director my job depends on it.) I do have this, albiet, trivial response to the Starfury scene in No Compromises. Granted scientific accuracy in B5 hasn't always been consistent (not that I haven't tried), I did manage, using diagrams and written descriptions, to get the animators to render that particular scene as realistic as possible. Although you do have to look closely (perhaps in slo-mo) those Starfuries had the lateral thrusters going the entire time they "hovered" outside the sanctuary window. Unfortunately most of the thruster action is clipped at the edge of the frame. Fortunately, some observant viewers caught it.
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Hmmm, someone brought up the idea of gathering the fans support to pledge a few dollars each towards getting Crusade on the air. Interesting concept. While I doubt we could gather enough to outright "buy" the show, perhaps the fan base could help it along? Think of the publicity on that one. Think of how the sponsors would view it. Here is a large group of viewers shelling out money for a program they are dedicated to seeing come into fruition. Perhaps they will have some money left over for the products advertised...? This is probably all wishful thinking, but I know what kind of power a large quotient of people can wield. Of course then, as part-owners, everyone would begin making their own demands as to how the show should be made... And there we would be again--The people with the cash trying to fiddle with the plumbing. ;)
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It occurs to me that if the apparent demon-spawn who are manipulating things at TNT are likely to continue to screw with Crusade it's termination would be an extremely *good* thing. This is without considering the fact that virtually all the preliminary feedback is that the show is horribly *damaged* to start with. And if the abomination of 'A Call to Arms' is any indicator the short sharp shock is probably the best way to make this go away with less pain in the long run.
Option two requires that the Old Ones pop by our blue-green marble and drop 200 million on JMS and *tell* him to make his own production company. However, I suspect that he, like George, may feel that his *whole* life need not be dedicated to the satisfaction of the world's slavering nerd-boys.
Our sphere has no requirement for 'Crusade-watch' or 'Starship Crusaders'.
Ciao -
Wouldn't it make sense for the WB network to pick up Crusade? I'm sure as a broadcast network the coverage would be much better than FX or Sci Fi. Personally, I prefer having the WB pick it up, but Sci Fi is fine with me too. I don't think I'll ever get FX, but my friend in Arlington, VA gets FX so I won't go without.
However, if you feel as I do about the WB network picking up Crusade, write your local network affiliate NOW, as I don't think it's too late, but it may be soon. The WB is where Crusade belongs and will have over 80% coverage there, it is a good choice.
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Well, I don't actually get Fx, but I do get SciFi (DirecTV). Regardless of that, I think SciFi would be a better home for Crusade. First of all, TNT gave B5 the opportunity to reach a "broad audience" but I don't think it hit with many outside the SF interest group. SciFi would be a better place for the show's target audience, and as such would be less likely to be pulled by network execs. Execs at a network with a diverse audience might have unrealistic expectations for a show that doesn't appeal to a massive audience (case in point, TNT with the measuring stick there being the NBA and WCW). Second, though the SciFi channel is not exactly the paragon of high-quality programming, in my opinion, it does a slightly better job than Fx (I used to get it, but there was never anything interesting on, aside from re-runs of the X-Files). Third, Even given SciFi's niche market, I think they actually get better overall ratings than Fx. Just some thoughts...
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I'm fairly new to this website so I'm not sure, but is there some form of censorship?
Lord Darth posted a juvenile posting and I responded by "accusing" him of being a brain dead Trekkie.
Is accusing someone of being a braindead Trekkie worthy of censorship??
Surely Glenn, this is going a bit too far? -
Oh Yea, I get FX in Connecticut via Cablevision. I also get the Sci-Fi channel. Although I can't believe Crusade will go to FX (few people have it)if it does, I'm ready!!!!!!!!!!
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