Cool News
Marvel calls out 'AVENGERS Assemble!!!'
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I was really hoping to hear about this film happening. One of the aspects of comics I've been missing with the Marvel films has been the cross-over. You can't see The Punisher pop up, targeting Spider-Man because Lionsgate has Punisher and Sony has Spider-Man. Spidey can't call on the Fantastic Four or the X-Men, since The Baxter Building and Xavier Mansion reside at Fox.
We still can't get those meetings, yet, but with this Paramount/Marvel deal we have characters like Captain America, Iron Man, Ant Man, The Hulk (which they got back from Universal), Thor, Ant Man, Nick Fury, etc, all at one studio, which opens it up for the AVENGERS movie, which Marvel is apparently working on with Zak Penn, who seems to have the Marvel scripting cornered (X2, X3, THE INCREDIBLE HULK, ELEKTRA).
There's a Studio Overview at Marvel Entertainment, that is a giant presentation held recently outlining the company's plan. They have single films in the works that include all the most famous AVENGERS, including Capt. America, Iron Man, Thor and Ant Man. Also in the report is a mention of them wanting to reclaim some characters from other studios, like they did with HULK. I doubt we'll see 'em grab Spidey or the X-Men away from Sony and Fox, respectively, but the more characters they have, the more universes they establish with these feature films, the more layered the Marvel movie universe becomes on the whole.
And I want to see a badass, huge Avengers movie. A lot of things still stand in the way... IRON MAN has to be a big success, for one. I think they'll probably want to wait for Captain America to get made, too. But I hope we're hitting a new wave of superhero films, of which AVENGERS could be the flagship. What do you folks think?
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Thats all.
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Twice, at least?
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please don't mess it up, please don't mess it up...
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It will never be as good as we would like it to be. There are so many characters. Even if they get a two and a half hour running time they couldn't give all the characters enough time on screen to be worth while.
I would rather see this as a mini-series on HBO or Showtime. Give them the budget and the time needed to make the story work. -
I've often wondered why no JLA movie or any other superhero group from DC made it to the big screen yet. I think Warner Bros has the rights to all DC material. I would love to see a cgi animated "Kingdom Come" movie. Just about every major DC character in that one. As for an avengers movie? It could go like every comic book movie: hot or cold. I can see Captain America's acrobatics and shield throwing possibly looking like Halle Berry's acrobatics in Catwoman if they do it wrong. Plus however this works out each character will undoubtably have too little screen time especially for fans of individual characters. Can ant man grow huge? I can't remember, but if they couldn't pull off Huge Sentinels in X3 for what I heard were technical reasons, how could they pull of a huge Ant Man? Actually this could be good as a CGI animated movie, if it is done with the quality of that Final Fantasy movie, whose story line was impossible to follow but probably had the best real looking humans of any cgi animated movie I've seen.
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It better be strictly a WWII for the first film. It better be directed by Spielberg. It better have the classic Cap uniform with the wings. If not, I'm not in. You can screw around all you want with the other chars, just don't mess with the fucking wings. Hell, they could give him Liefeld's eagle emblem, and I wouldn't care as lone as the wings stayed put. It's like taking the ears off Bats, it's sacrilege. The Ultimate version of Cap is weak. Weak, weak, weak. WINGS FTW!!!
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DROP THE SWINGERS MORON- go back to directing ELF movies, you pretentions creep- and stay away from sci-fi properties, YOU HACK!
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to get the X-men property back. They don't need him to have a long running franchise at another studio, and Sabretooth could always be rewritten for the Logan role. Gambit could pick up the slack as well. The X-men universe revolves around Cyclops anyways. Fuck Wolverine. Fuck Jackman, Fuck Rothman. And Fuck Arad for letting that get so out of hand. X-men coulda been bigger than Trek, but they blew it.
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... Is the new Too Soon.
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I saw the animated film version of The Ultimate Avengers and quickly suspected that the script was actually based on a live action film that was never produced...My suspecions arose thanks to the pacing and action beats of the film...it just seemed very theatrical, unlike most animated fair which seems to rush to get to the point of the story. No, the animated Ultimate Avengers movie almost seemed like an animatic story board for something much bigger that the folks at Marvel had to be planning...and it appears that I was right!!! I look forward to seeing this film...You have a good writer in place...now all we need is a great director like Paul Greengrass (Bourne Supremacy) who had been trying to bring Alan Moore's Watchmen to the screen. Anyway...good luck on the film!!!
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I'm probably in the minority, but I want Giant Man and Wasp, Scarlet Witch with Wonder Man and Vision, and how about Ultron as the villain?
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any of that failed "Justice League" TV pilot? Somehow I picture this looking like THAT jumbled mess. Search for it on YouTube and see what I mean.
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And I'm not referring to these quickie straight-to-video "Ultimate Avengers" things. I'm talking quality art, given plenty of time to complete, and feature length. It'll never happen, but I can dream, I suppose.
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ABHDBDBNNN AVEBNNGERS!!! !AHHHHHHH OH M DNYDBNN AVENGERS ASSEMMMBV:ELS AHHAHHHHH SO EXCITED
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that was written like a movie. have the first two stories as the first movie. would make billions. BILLIONS! starts off in WW2 with that violent badass Cap. Perfect characterizaion etc. Then the sequel brings in Quicksilver, scarlet witch, hawkeye and falcon. It's perfect. perfectly laid out. just follow it. and for shermdog, wings or no wings i just want to see cap's total badassness that is in the ultimates and the recent captain america and new avengers comics, especially civil war.
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Ultimates sort of goes by the fact Iron man is already established. that is PERFECT for the movie. If they don't follow it it's just stupid. Iron Man will already be an established character then he can be apart of the avengers without giving an origin. Captain America should get a movie AFTER avengers. he should be first introduced in the WW2 intro in avengers, in the shadows till we see he is a badass especially when he screams 'CMON LADIES WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!!! CHRISTMAS?!!'
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Cast. Captain America - Paul Walker(bard pitt is too old, and paul walker shows he can be serious as shown in running scared, just get a voice coach for that badass voice and done. Plus from a fanboy standpoint, he's 6'2" and has the body. again. just the voice). Iron Man - Matt Dillon. Hank Pym - Matthew Mcnoughay or Matthew Vartan. Janet Pym - Lucy Liu(yeah typecast). Thor -GUNTER SCHLIERKAMP!!!(this guy is a bodybuilder who has been doing acting courses for along time, he also happened to dress as Thor for a marvel credit card commercial) and Nick Fury - who else but Bruce Campbell. Villain - Kang the Conquerer(if they add him to the mix. Tom Cruise).
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or just fanboyish to think Marvel would ever take X-men withour Wolverine, that put him in nearly every comic because he sells. whether you like it or not, Wolverine is X-men. Once wolverine joined, sales went up and stayed up to this day.
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This has all sorts ofpotetential, could be good, could be bad, I like the idea that the primary Avengers are at one studio, no rearranging of the char. I like the idea of Greengrass of directing, seems like a good choice. I really don't have anything as it's almost 3am
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...yet another steaming pile of dookie.
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That would be ok, the Ultimates is a fairly good read, and I like what they've done with most of the characters- doing away with secret identities, government operation, etc, but it bugs the hell out of me to read the books and see the artists actually using photos of movie stars (Sam Jackson, Tom cruise, Sean Bean, etc) for the face models. It just seems a little desperate.... hopefully they'll cast unknowns as well as stars.
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Or even Giant Man for that matter. Gotta have Hawkeye because arrows make for good trailers. Need the Vision and Scarlet Witch with a better costume. I think they should go full tilt with the costumes on this one, not like in X-Men. If you're going to do the Avengers, do it Fantastic Four style, with no apologies. Daredevil was so bizarre to keep the costume then ditch Bulleye's. Of course the less said about the mistakes in Daredevil the better. Gimme a damn comic book on the screen, not Lex Luthors with hair or the Punisher in a t-shirt. I'll give X-Men a pass on the costumes only because the films pretty much got everything else right.
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just mentioning the mutant phenomenon would be enough for me. It's an interesting detail to be aknowledged...
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After watching JLU + JLA, Ultimate Avengers seemed like terrible military/neo-imperialist propaganda. I mean, the 2nd animated movie involved convincing an African nation with coveted resources that the USA was their best and only option for survival! And Nazis? I also think it's great that WWII, the racism, the military state, the dehumanizing, the holocaust, the economic strife, and all the other factors that contributed to the rise of the third-reich all boiled down to... green aliens. If it wasn't for Thor, I might have hated every single one dimensional character in the group. Please leave the Captain frozen forever. One Rumsfeld is enough.
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screw marvel. one day valiant will reign supreme!!!
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that is one bastardized wtf were they thinking idea to start that shitty comic. Stay far far away from that shit.
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That alone would be reason enough to check out an Avengers movie. And you should have elements from both the Avengers and the Ultimates in it.That would be a good compromise.
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The Guy has basically written Really BAD SHITTY Movies. I refuse to believe he had anything to do with X2. Please dont let him ruin an AVENGERS movie as Well. COME ON!! This is the Guy who wrote Inspector Gadget and Last Action Hero!! What the Fuck is wrong with Everyone??
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Law of averages as most of these superhero movies suck.
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I love looking at files like that.
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This is what it's all about! I want to see legendary superheroes knocking ten bags of sh*t out of eachother! Pity the studios still don't see how lucrative this could be for them...
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If they spend about 250 million dollars on the picture and hire a new writer. You would have to spend at least that much to do the film justice.
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...Ron Burgundy's News Team assemble, Brick Tamland would take out Ant Man with a trident.
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I hope this gets made and is a huge success. I'm not that big of a Marvel fan, but they have so many fantastic characters! I would absolutely love to see an Avengers film just for the chance to see so many superheroes working together. Maybe if its a box office success, Warner Bros will greenlight a JLA movie. For the life of me I cannot figure why Warner hasn't got at least 6 comic book properties in production. I mean, I know SUPERMAN RETURNS disappointed at the box office, but they don't have to spend that kinda money on Green Lantern, Flash or Aquaman. Hell, if THE FANTASTIC FOUR can be made for 100 million, surely we can see Barry Allen speeding through the streets or Hal Jordan punching Sinestro with a giant green fist for 100 million. Right? Well am I right?
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Plus they have a major movie announcement coming this September which just got signed this week.
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Especially after what happend in Conneticut...
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It's not because the studios would fuck them up (which they would), and it's not because they pick the wrong actor/director/writer (which they might). It's because comics exist in a very bizarre universe when you allow several superheroes (let alone THOUSANDS) to live alongside one another. TO EXPLAIN -- consider what a bunch of jerk-offs with molotov sports drinks did to the nation yesterday. The news programs were running around like chickens with their heads cut off ... and that was all for a PREVENTED attack! Having Avengers or the JLA or whoever beating the Holy Crap out of some group of supervillians on a regular basis would be like a hundred 9/11's every freakin' week!!! The whole point of translating a comic to film is to see what those extreme characters would look like when converted to "reality." But to have mass chaos on the scale created by having not only The Hulk, but ALSO Iron Man, Cap America, and a veritble ocean of "super entities" would stretch reality FAR BEYOND the breaking point, making the whole thing a farce in the end. It can't happen in "our world," but only in Bizarro "comic world," where entire cities might be levelled on a monthly basis ... and the people don't go completely bat-shit mad (in fact, they often don't even realize that their lives are constantly in danger). That's just too hard for a non-comics person to grasp, and too difficult for live film to realize. (It always cracks me up to look at those comics that try to merge "real world" events with the super-realm, like when Superman got in the boxing ring against Muhammed Ali. Sorry, but who'd give two fucks about boxing or baseball or any of that when you have Superman punching asteroids into oblivion or alien invasions every other week? "Hmmmm, what to watch, what to watch ... Presidential debate on steel taxation, or GREEN LATTERN DEFEND THE EARTH FROM ALIENS!!!")
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I would rather have a marvel or dc movie every month than wait 2 years for a live action
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I'm not on board with the whole "too soon!" craze, but Nairb, that was just funny.
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Anyone see the new Longest Yard with Adam Sanler? Funnier than I thought it was gonna be, but when I saw th size of the crazy dude who played ping pong- I thought holy shit that guy doesnt even nedd a body suit..he ould pull the hulk off easily..he was that DAMN BIG! Make the Hulk the 12 year old personality that just wants to be left alone
and finally just makes friends with the Avengers. The thing with the Avengers is its not gonna be able to be in conjuncture with the comics..you know the Cap movie will show him gettin dragged out of the ice..but it wont be the Avengers that do it... -
If only to see Vision call Ultron a "hockeypuck".
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I blame the guys who wrote it. Like this fella they've got ready to mess up Avengers...
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I want to see the great movies made...massive superhero team ups that we could never have imagined being made before the huge budgets of Superman Returns and X3.
Just imagine Kingdom Come, Secret Wars, or even Justice Leaugue: Identity Crises made into feature films. Then lets not forget Watchmen. And some day the $450 million epic Crises on Infinite Earths . First and foremost, Secret Wars would be nothing short of awe-inspiring! -
The Red Chord is amazing
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Someone mentioned Green Lantern in an earlier post. I have my fingers crossed on this one as I think it could be the very best superhero film - mainly because, if done correctly, it would cross over into sci-fi territory. Currently, no one has done any superhero film with any larger cosmic or alien issues involved. They've tried so hard to root everything in the "real world" that they've left behind the magic of the comics. This makes the grand & cosmic storylines like Dark Phoenix impossible when the backdrop is supposed to be "our" world. Let's get back to real comics and get some seriously cosmic things happening. Green Lantern is just the ticket to turn around the current trend of superhero flicks (which I love...but I also believe they're losing a lot of what makes the comics great). Even Fantastic Four 2 could take things in a different direction (but the first was SOOOOOO bad that it's highly doubtful). My fingers are crossed for the future of superhero film.
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Shane Black did...Zak Penn might have been one of the many many people to do rewrites on the script, but the fucking big dog himself Shane Black wrote it.
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Yellowjacket, Wasp, Quicksliver, Black Panther, Hawkeye-into-Goliath, Scarlet Witch and Vision. All very interesting middle league characters you can take a few liberties with, make more 'cinematic' and not have them tied too slavishly into the mythology. Let's face it Captain America, Hulk, Thor and Iron Man interacting as a team, on-screen, will probably look ridiculous and will be bound up by several franchises' continuity and star deals.
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ultimates ultimates ultimates. that is all.
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He's American-made, brother.
Seriously though... a kick-ass Avengers movie would be great... but does anyone actually believe that it can possibly happen? Good comic book movies are still the exception, not the rule. I'd like to have some faith in this concept... but I just don't. Meh. -
they should fucking dump the WW2/frozen in ice origin for cap. i mean really its just shit. superhero films these days (seem) to need a basis in science hokeumpokeum and there is noway that a human body could freeze quickly enough under any natural conditions to last 60 years. Not to mention the shear stupidity of all his enemies suddenly popping up at the same time having gone quiet for the duration of his chill. Please god make them drop the war shit. Please...
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Yes. I believe it can happen. That is, I believe it can get made. Because even though good comic movies are the exception, comic films flopping are also the exception. As a rule, now, comic films make money. And thats all the studios want to know. As for better writers...why in the world don't studios try to hire...wait for it...comic book writers! I mean, wouldn't it make more sense for Chuck Dixon to be writing the next Batman film? Or Paul Dini? Or maybe Grant Morrison tackling a JLA film? This is especially true with Warner Bros seeing as how their parent company Time Warner owns DC Comics. They all get paid by the same boss. Quit hiring people who aren't proven to write hit films and hire guys who know these characters and their stories. Just a thought.
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Zak Penn and his writing partner wrote that as one of those famous million dollar spec scripts. Shane Black did a later rewrite.
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Is there a reason two studios can't pool their resources and make crossover movies? Spider-Man and FF sounds like a good idea, and an Avengers/X-Men movie would be cool. Seems like they'd make tons of money, assuming they had the regular casts, so what's standing in the studios' way?
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Crap.
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You guys saying having too many superheroes seems ridiculous. wasn't ridiculous in X2. It would only work ultimates style though. the fact they are agents/celebrities in a sense. I don't want an avengers movie like the normal marvel U. Start off ultimates then build from there. No Zak Penn. Just get Mark Miller and some other screenwriter. Ultimates is already cinematic, just bring it to life, hugely entertaining comic that is ready made to translate to the big screen.
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The movie was a deconstruction of the action movie genre, basically the watchmen of action movies. Starring arnold himself. Not as great as watchmen but the same idea. The movie came out at the wrong time, if it came out now, it would be revered.
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Those scenes alone made X3 a decent movie, they alone were fantastic, especially the way it was sync'd with the music. I always hoped of one day seeing the psionic mutants wrecking havoc and finally i did. Spectacular scenes they were. the rest of the movie....disjointed.
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see this working. For some reason picturing all these characters in live action on the screen at the same time just doesn't work in my mind. Plus, imagine if they did make a Cap movie, Ant Man, and whatnot, in addition to Iron Man. Then you'd have all these big-name stars vying for screen time and sucking up budget money and you'd wind up with something more like X3 . . .
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With two stars having appeared as different characters in each franchise, that prevents there ever being an X-Men/Punisher crossover. Because there's such an obvious demand for such a thing and connection among the characters:)
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small, probably to the original members (Cap, Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Ant Man and Wasp) so it's manageable. Plus they're probably the best combination. Maybe Hawkeye too.
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The X-men can't exist without Wolverine is naive. Wolverine is NOT needed. The three films we got were NOT X-men films, they were Wolverine films. And frankly, that's a fucking travesty. X-men could exist on its own. You got the Cyclops, who like I said before has nearly every major storyline revolving around him. You got the Xavier-Magneto stuff. The tragic saga of Colossus. Also this would give them a real chance to make Rogue the deep character she was from the comics. There are ton's of great characters in the X-books, that DO NOT NEED FUCKING LOGAN AROUND TO STEAL THEIR SPOTLIGHT!!!
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but a Doogie Howser moment screwed that up, leaving "the Cyclops". >_<
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the Avengers drag him out in the Avengers movie!
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I'll tell you what would be really badass. A Captain America movie being done in the fashion of the HBO mini series Band of Brothers.It doesn't have to be a mini series, a 2 hour movie would suffice. First Captain America needs to be the Ultimate universe's version. He needs to be able to jump out of a plane with out a parachute, bench press a few tons and heal very quickly. He's supposed to be a SUPER Soldier for Christs sake! The regular Marvel Universe's Cap has only been enhanced to a top Olympic level athlete. If that's the case, they could have gotten Jesse Owens and put him in the suit. The movie should be done somewhat like a documentary. They should tell the story of Captain America as if he actually secretly fought during WWII and this information was finally declassified. They could interview very old guy's as if they served with Cap and they would tell tales of his heroics. The movie would go between those guy's speaking and then actually showing footage of Cap in Action. This could be done with supposed stock footage, or well done reinactments. The action needs to be gritty and show the horror's of war. Cap should wear the Ultimate version of his WWII outfit. That would seem more practical than having a guy go to war wearing a brigh red, white and blue outfit. His Uniform and boot should be dirty, muddy etc. They should show guy's talking to Cap one minute and being hit by a bullet the next. (Just like in Band of Brothers, this would be done to show how guickly death comes during war.) Bucky should be Cap's photographer and should be one of the old guy's being interviewed for the film. The film should end with Cap's Supposed death while trying to stop the Nazi's nuclear weapon. It should end with a paragraph stating that Cap's body was never found, but with the ongoing War on Terror in the Middle East, America's Super Soldier program has resurfaced as a viable option to help end this conflict. Code Named, The Ultimates: America hopes to have a working team of Super Soldiers in a few years. The next movie could be the Avengers movie and it would be about the American Government hiring Tony Stark( Iron Man) and Bruce Banner ( Hulk) to create Super Soldiers. Tony would be creating Armor to enhance soldiers artificially and Bruce would look to enhance them genetically, like his father mistakenly did to him. ( This would continue the thread from Ang Lee's Hulk movie) His experiments would all be unsuccessful. They would find old WWII footage of Captain America, that upon further review, would show Cap being blown away from the rocket before it exploded.In an attempt to retrieve his remains for its DNA. They would be suprised to find Captain America undamaged, fully encased in Ice. The rest of the movie writes it self. No Aliens though. This movie should deal with America's utilization of, and the world's reaction to the Super Soldier initiative. What do you guys think?
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Go see Oliver Stone's World Trade Center. I could see MICHAEL SHANNON (who plays that marine) would look PERFECT in that Captain costume. Plue he FELT like he could dish out the hero vibe... big time. Casting him could free up some $ to cast a name as the Hulk, someone interesting as Ant Man, as well as being able to afford the Iron Man actor.
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They're all a bunch of assholes. I always thought a good way to do the Avengers as a TV series would be to start with made-for-TV movies showing the origins of Iron Man, Thor, Ant-Man and Wasp, then have them get together to capture the Hulk in 'The Avengers' pilot. If only I'd sent in a spec sript, I coulda sued Marvel for millions.
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Matt Damon as Ant Man. Michael Shannon as Captain America. Dennis Haysbert as Fury... (I think Sam wouldn't feel like Fury. He'd feel like Sam)... Whoever plays Iron Man as Iron Man, whoever plays Hulk as Hulk... rather not have Thor...
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Uh, wow, who knew their go-to guy would be batting .250. Way to swing for mediocrity!
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To put Captain America on film, staying true to his classic uniform, without it looking so gay you laugh every time you look at it.
Remember that movie they made where Captain America had a harelip? Classic. -
Aug 11, 2006 10:24:51 AM CDT
Forget Avengers; I want to see a WORLD'S FINEST FILM!!!
by r.c. the "wise"
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we slowed up on the super hero movies isnt it?
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yeah I know it can work and there are great stories without wolverine, but i'm saying from a producer's point of view. it will never happen. in this world and the world of business, wolverine is x-men. and it shows, sales have stayed the highest because of wolverine. people think x-men, they think claws.
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it's already there ready to be put on film. It's not cheesy at all. it would work brilliantly as a movie. cap's costume is badass. everyone else is awesome. ultimates. now. zak penn far away.
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If there is one thing I've learned since the comic book movie comeback, its that people will pay lots of cash to see their heroes in traditional costumes. Captain America's costume is fine.
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Have u looked at old comics of Wolverine in his popular costume? If they put that costume on the screen, it would have been stupid. They could totally make Captain work. You see, the excuse is that he was frozen... so when he is first unfrozen or whatever, he could have that "dated" traditional costume. However once he hooks up with the Avengers, the costume can be brought into the current times... u know... the same way the costumes for X-Men were.
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I love the Avengers. That was my favorite comic hands down. I would love to see the old school avengers done right none of this new ultimates crap. Go back and read anywhere from issue 1-250 and tell me those arent classic. I have serious dobuts though.
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That would be like the German's in the 40's trying to sell a film with a character called Captain Nazi...I exaggerate for effect, but we're not well regarded in the world at the moment, and you can't get funding for a large budgeted action film these days unless you appeal to an international demographic.
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The Captain america movie should be a 2-hour feast of WWII wish fulfillment. Suppose Hitler didn't ingest cyanide capsules- this was just a cover up for the fact that Cap broke into the bunker and bludgeoned him. And who should play the Red Skull? I'd say the Governator in a perfect world, although he'd never accept the role(didn't he say he admired Hitler once?). Rutger Hauer as the Red Skull would work. Or they could go the other direction and have some huge teutonic-looking WWF flavor of the month dude play him. If it is a WWII movie, it needs to have the Red Skull to add that element of sci-fi craziness to the opposing side as well.
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I'm not super-familiar with the material, but here's my casting choices:
Cap'n America - Peter Fonda
Thor - Stifler from American Pie
Iron Man/Tony Stark - Ghostface Killa
Hulk - Jonah Hill
Bill Bixby/David Banner - Crispin Glover
Ant Man - Martin Short
Nick Fury - Steve Harvey
The Punisher - Carlos Mencia (Cameo)
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What pisses me off is they could easily acknowledge the greater Marvel universe without having actual crossovers, and why in fuck didn't Marvel demand this in all of their studio contracts? It could be simple things like the Daily Bugle running a story about the "mutant menace" or asking "Is Spiderman a Mutant?" The fact that they didn't have Ben Urich working at the Bugle in Daredevil pissed me off. In Spidey 1, that robot thing that Goblin blew up should have been a Stark Industries product. Why couldn't they have simply shown the Baxter building in the New York skyline when the X-Jet or Spidey go zooming by in their movies? When the FF got their powers someone should have asked if they were mutants. One of the coolest little things in X2 is seeing Franklin Richards name on that computer screen, and that's all we would need. Just acknowledge the Marvel universe without bludgeoning us with it and I'd be happy.
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That is EXACTLY why Captain will work. How cool would it be to see Captain having to deal with how much America is hated by the rest of the world. That could be part of the conflict... unthawing from a world that loved him and finding himself in a world where mothers are spitting in his face. They don't have to call him Captain America throughout the movie. That would sound too forced... just like the X-Men movie. They don't keep saying Wolverine all the time. Most of the time they call him Logan. If they kept calling him Wolverine, it would have felt too forced and stupid. Same with The Hulk. I see only news reporters and politicians referring to him as Captain America. I see the rest of him calling him Cap, or his friends calling him Steve.
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You're right,Nutsack. (that hurts to write)The closest things I've seen to these acknowledgments of other superheroes in movies were when Val Kilmer makes the remark about Superman working alone in Batman Forever, and Aunt May saying there are "too few" heroes like Spiderman fighting crime in Spiderman 2(if he had been the only one, why would she have said too few?) They mentioned Gotham City in Superman Returns as well, if I remember correctly.
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would suffer in the international market. Not that I think it would be for a good reason or anything, but I've recently just returned from Europe. Man, is there a whole lot of anti-Americanism over there amongst the public and in their media. Went to Italy, Greece and Germany. I'm telling you, it's bad.
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the reason why Ultimates could work for the very reason that you criticize the animated films (which I haven't seen - so I'm just basing my opinion on the comic) - the film could point up those issues and have characters and the audience question them. They could be a great commentary on Bush's America. Hell, even the Civil War storyline could be interesting that way. I even think doing Watchmen and keeping it exactly in the period it was written would be an excellent way to comment on today's situation. I finally read it recently, and I think that entire plot, the time period, the Cold War, the politics would all be relevant to today. Even that 'alien' thing had a 9/11ish vibe to it. Of course, one of my favorite characters in Ultimates is the Thor character and the question of whether he's crazy or not. Great interpretation, imo.
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and he basically absolved himself of the shittiness of X-Men 3. If I remember correctly he pointed to the fact that there were other writers, and that he had more of a hand in writing X2. When the interviewer asked him about how zealous the X-Men fans are, he mentioned something along the lines of "you should look at the shit that Ratner gets online, and some of it he deserves." That's not verbatim, but it was the gist of the interview. I was shocked he took a swipe at Ratner.
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a STEALTH captain America movie. Much like Waterworld was secretly a Submariner movie, and Unbreakable was secretly a movie about, err, Rain-Slicker man, they could make a WWII movie called "Brothers of Duty" or "The Good Soldier" or something vague like that, and have it turn out to be about Captain America. That way, it wouldn't suffer so badly in international markets. Yeah, Orbots, I know what you're talking about. I'm no "loud annoying american" and when I was in Germany recently, it was all I could do to keep people from pissing in my beer. My last name is even German.
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"I mean, Brett gets so much s--- from people online. And he doesn't care and some of it he deserves even." I'm surprised I remembered the interview as well as I did. Perhaps because it was a memorable line. Here's the link: http://comics.ign.com/articles/707/707810p2.html
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Unless marvel is willing to put 300 million behind this picture and get someone other than there "house" writer to pen this, it's gonna suck soemthing awful. The smart thing would be to get Pixar or specificly the guy behind the Iron Giant and the impossibles to write and direct an animated feature. Someone who has proven he can do intimate, witty, and spectacle all in the same movie in a seamless manner.
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Just wanted to say that both your takes on a Captain America film were very well put. What I always had trouble getting around was how do you show Cap fighting in WWII, without using weapons - and I think that he should have weapons but should also be a true superhero, able to bench press a lot, leap, jump out of planes and everything. I love the idea of him being classified, that is why no one heard of him. But I would have him resurrected today, and tell parallel stories, Godfather Part II style - one storyline with his resurrection, with parallel flashbacks to WWII. On ongoing theme would be aging, outliving your friends, and the corruption of American values - and perhaps the idea that those values weren't always there to the degree we thought they were. Could be a very interesting film.
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We gotta make this happen!
http://www.petitiononline.com/vdo4thor
He would KICK ASS in an Avengers movie! -
Vincent D'Onofrio as Thor - the Petition
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I'm in the same boat buddy. My last name is Greek and have extended family in Athens and on a few islands. Although they were nothing but sweet to me, the anti-America stuff was pretty venomous.
I even saw it in a sea-side cafe.
I was sitting with cousins at an outdoor cafe on the island on of the Greek islands. Several U.S. Marines in uniform also took a table nearby. A few Greek islands have several United States and NATO strategic naval bases. Anyway, you could see the dagger looks everyone gave those guys in uniform. One patron actually cursed them aloud in Greek. Similar thing happened in Germany. I couldn't believe it. -
I agree Ultimates would make for a great movie, but as much as I worship the chin, I like the Samuel L Jackson verion of Fury.
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made you look. for once, i only have a few words on this. they are: neal adams, production design. kree-skrull war. discuss.
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It'll feel like those Wolfman vs. Frankestein, Dracula vs. Wolfman, or even Alien vs Predator. Once you make this on the others will just feel like spin-offs and inferior. Do it when the individal characters are no longer bankable. Then give me an avengers movie, an Avengers vs FF, FF vs. X-Men and a grand Avengers vs. X-Men vs. FF . Yeah right.
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are you F'ing crazy? he looks like a child molester or a mongoloid!!! c'mon...seriously now!! Cap has to be someone similar to the look and build, like Christian Bale if he wasn't already batman.
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Spidey puts it best: how he's a complete amateur against Cap, who's a master at hand to hand combat. I think the biggest problem is how you incorporate the shield into the fighting. And this whole 'toning it down for international markets' thing is bullshit. I'm the last person to go all jingoistic, or even claim to be a huge Cap fan, but from what I know of the character, he's a symbol of American ideals, not American realities. Maybe how he's acting in Civil War is against character (that's what I hear, as I said, not a huge fan), but it seems he would fight the American government if he thought they were betraying American ideals. I'm not saying the government should be the bad guys or anything, just that it should be....complex. There's no reason that a good Captain America story can't address the complex realities of the American and international political situation. Pairing a good Iron Man film (dealing with the complex realities of the military-industrial complex and American capitalism) with a good Cap. America film (dealing with the politics of war and patriotism) would be an excellent one-two punch for both critiquing and celebrating America today. As far as the Avengers film (which I'm hoping comes much later), the enemy has to be big, intergalactic even - I say Kree/Skull war.
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"lets go get dos notsis, but votch out sum uv dem are my relatives so i know vot dey vill DO"
ey Bucky you lil homo let's go. -
I can crap out better superheroes than him.
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to the JLA cartoon. The characters are thinly drawn and irritating. There is nothing likeable about a single one of them. Marvel will screw this up by "ultimizing" and making everyone a post-modern jerkwad.
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when is avi arad going to figure it out that zak penn cannot write super heroe movies! the man is as good as writing super heroes as the pope is at body building. i think X3, and mr. and mrs. smith speak for themselves this man needs to be black listed from any further comic/movie projects. would it be too much for them to hire joss whedon, or heres a tohught, someone like mark millar, who acctually knows something about comics. zak penn must be excommunicated from any further marvel projects, and its up to harry knowles to brand him a heretic of the super heroe movie genre.
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with no relation to reality whatsoever and have a slightly retro feel. It should exist in a comic book world. Like Sky Captain, but without a crappy script. Keep as far away from the boring, toxic Ultimates as possible.
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yawn
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Joel Gretsch (Tom Baldwin) from "The 4400". You know that is the perfect casting.
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First of all, the avengers are SHIT next to the JLA. What's interesting about a team of vague superheroes (Thor, The Wasp, Ant Man, Hawkeye?) next to a team of well-known, established superheroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman). The fact that the Avengers have two direct-to-video animated movies instead of a popular, watchable animated series just proves its inferiority. Besides, DC kicks Marvel ass every time. AVENGERS ASS-EMBLE! the avengers suck.
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Comic heroes can translate successfully to the big screen, no matter how wild or garish they or their costumes are. The public won't necessarily stay away just because they aren't familiar with the characters. How many normal people knew anything at all about the X-Men? None of my friends read comics when they were kids, but they enjoyed the X movies. (Yes, no differentiation in X1, X2 or X3: as bewildering as it is to movie fans, average people don't know or care about the myriad movie factors we enjoy stressing over. They just know if they liked the movie or not.) The superheroes in question aren't as important as the movie-makers. Spider-Man could've tanked given a different production team. Daredevil could have been a huge hit. It's not the property, it's not the genre, it's not the cultural zeitgeist: it's the storytellers. Always.
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Actually, alot of people knew who the X-Men were. It was an already popular franchise as an animated series. There are also a shitload of X-Men comics fans. You can't really compare the X-Men to Ant Man - Ant Man is a half-realized character and is based off an insect. No one cares for that shit, no matter how talented the director or production team is. Maybe Capt. America or Iron Man, but not the other less than creative "superheroes" that seem like they were made into a team because they generally suck as individual characters. There may be a big fan following for the Avengers, but they pale in comparison to the simple, no bullshit, close-to-home reality of the Justice League of America. DC characters are more like mythological beings compared to Marvel's shiny, cheesy, plastic cartoon characters who are far more far-fetched in terms of story and ability. DC is always a sure bet, but because Marvel had a head start with the X-Men movies and everything that followed, they're now scraping the bottom of the barrel, material-wise, with the Avengers and Thor and the like.
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kinda going down the popularity list one by one, and that the Avengers don't have the edge or symbolism of X-Men or the built-in recognition of Spider-Man. (Oh, and I agree that Ant-Man sucks.) But even at the bottom of the barrel, a good storyteller can work wonders. /// But really, DC over Marvel? All superheroes are inherently ridiculous in the cold light of day, but I always dug that Marvel heroes existed within a semblance of our world, not some amalgamated "Gotham City" or "Metropolis". Anyway, to each his own.
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That thing was a piece of shit and had almost no relation to the Ultimates comics.
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The average audience goer gets the superhero concept: person born with/develops strange and unusal powers and abilities and fights bad guys. There is too much exposition shown in superhero films when they could just jump into the story and get things moving. They should be more concerned with making a believable superhero world instead of focusing on supposed realism. They should be concerned with a strong character and story. They waste a lot of time and energy overdoing the origin. People either like the characters or they don't. It's a combination of cool powers (iconagraphy) and personality. People saw X-Men primarily for Jackman's Wolverine. The remainder of the cast used to fill out the story became known after the first film's release and the overall themes resonate with people just as they did in the comics (shocking, I know).
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They are mean-spirited and all of the characters loathesome.
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If a writer can't get it right for one character, Elektra, why in the hell would anybody think this douche could get it right for a whole team like the Avengers?
Hollywood sure isn't picky when it comes to writers anymore, or directors for that matter. -
Crazy stuff happens and colorful costumed heroes form a team to save the day. Different personalities create tensions within the team. I say go with Cap, Wasp, Giant-Man, Iron-Man, Thor and Hawkeye as a rogue member who joins at the end and then bring in Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver on the back end and phase out Wasp and Giant-Man.
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Sam Jackson MUST portray Sgt. Fury. I
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It could be so awesome.
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suspicious individuals learn to trust each other and play as a team. It would be more interesting if they all got along well and seem like confident, nice, balanced individuals in the beginning and then the stress and fame makes their personal weaknesses more apparent.
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Man you kids sure do get yourselves all wrapped up in things you haven't an iota of control over. Team movies are a snap as long as it's written well. You kids loved X2 yet won't give Penn a nod, what hypocrites. It was all Singer huh? Yeah right SR proves him to be a hack. If they can Pull off a Navy Seals or Predator sort of Vibe I'm cool with the flick.
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Dc kicks Marvels ass? I havent laughed out loud like that in such a long time. JLA is better than Avengers? How can you say it has more established members than the Avengers? Besides the core members they also have Spider-man, most X-men, Fantastic Four, Captain America, Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and too many others too mention. Heres the full list. http://tinyurl.com/s3tu9 Know your facts before you spout such crap again. Check out this awesome website. http://tinyurl.com/pv8do
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Or have they not signed anyone for Hulk 2/this? I wish Bana would return but he's above this stuff after Munich and his Troy role which was probably the only good thing about it... http://k105.blogspot.com/
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A movie based on the Stormwatch : Team Achilles story arc? That type of anti-superhero story has been done yet if I'm not mistaken. Could turn out great if done right. What do you guys think?
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Marvel team films would probably work better than DC. Superman has a hard time taking back seat to other characters. I would like to see a DC Trinity film, however.
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Most of the superhero films have been anti-hero films, because Hollywood thinks their motivations are more "realistic". Exception being Spidey.
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Problem solved.
Don't even bother thinking of another team, you'd just be wasting your time.
Every post after this, is irrelevant. -
How about THAT for a question, since we're on the subject of an Avengers flick. (And how about Marvel's Captain Marvel?)
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http://stlcomics.com/osc/catalog/images/avengersann7.21006.jpg
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That would kick ass.
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DIE!!! Do your Wolvie flick, and be done with it. Wait ten years reboot the sumuvabitch into a fully realized franchise, not some halfassed rushed to screen battle of the ego's that Rothman gave us. This is THE ONLY property that could stand on the same level, and quite possibly above Star Wars, Star Trek, and LOTR, but FOX will continue to fuck up like they've done for years. Example, AVP2: SHOWDOWN AT K-MART. What I can't understand though, is there's some kickass fanflicks for Star Wars, Batman, etc. but none... NONE for X-men (that I've seen) Why the hell not?
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It's not out of character for cap in civil war, that is his character. in fact it shows in that line that if they register with the government, the government will tell them who the bad guys are. I love cap. He represents american ideals and the american dream, but not the government. he says it himself. he's the first to put the shield down if things aren't being done right. I remember he quit as cap i think when he learnt of watergate. that's the great thing about many marvel characters, they have this multilayered depth to them. cap wouldn't be the same in dc. in the dc world he'd be a ridiculous pure right wing superior government agent.
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you seem to be in the minority considering most people see the ultimates as one of the most fun comics ever. not boring in any way whatsoever, and if they made an avengers movie, it is hands down the coolest and most badass way to make one.
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every post is retarded. DC own marvel every time? yeah that's why Marvel has outsold DC for almost 50 years. A team of vague heroes is far more interesting than a team of extremely powerful heroes, why do you think so many of the JLA's stories are so mundane. Everyone says this. JLA is cool but they are too powerful to the point their stories are just empty.
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you killed it when you said marvel heroes are shiny, plastic cartoon characters. that's hilarious. marvel is known as the company that has the more realistic characters with depth, whilst dc has the 1 dimensional cartoon characters. it's the stigma dc have. and popularity cmon. don't be ridiculous. dc has 3 well known heroes, marvel has more. marvel also hasn't had to retcon their characters various times to appeal to the comic buying public. And don't give me this popularity matters. Hellboy did great and is getting a sequel and the general public had never heard of it. you are retarded. how do you argue against that.
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If Marvel actually makes this movie (and judging by their recent track record I can't imagine it being any good), then they should not use the Ultimates. Ultimates was fine as a "what if?" scenario, but none of the characters were any fun and it was way too dark. One of the best part of the X-Men movies (the first two anyways) was the little bits of humour between the characters. You lose a certain dynamic in a team when the characters take themselves too seriously.
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Let's start with cross-overs as a comic phenomenon. Okay, so you have a character that's invented with a whole back story, an established logic (e.g., radioactive spider = superhero ... or Hammer of Thor = superhero ... or cosmic space gas = superhero family), and a significant fan base built by years of single-feature comics. THEN someone says, "Hey, wouldn't it be fun if Hulk battled Spider-Man?" So, you're off ... and suddenly this one established universe where the whole country is going ape shit over the Hulk runs SMACK into New York, where the big story of the day is, "Who's the dude in the red and blue spandex swinging around fighting the green guy on the speeder?" It builds from there ... and suddenly New York has a superhero for every freakin' block, ALL with their own backstories and internal logic, ALL with their own unique gallery of goons, and ALL with "earth-shattering storylines that change life as we know it!!!" Comics fans eat it up because they've been rolling with this logic all along. ---- And NOW you want a two-three hour film where a non-comic audience gets hit with two dozen different backstories all at once? Riiiiiiight. Okay, movie-goers, not only are the old Norse Gods "real," and not only is there a "super-soldier" program, and not only is there a man who can change his size at will, and not only is there a giant green monster ... they ALL exist at the same time and join a team! You'll be introducing most of these characters all at the same time, mind you. This isn't even like LXG where you can expect the public to just roll with the fun because, in fact, they already know who Mr. Hyde is (more or less) and The Invisible Man and so on. But while comics allow a fanbase to grow steadily and enter into an entire alternate universe, movies require the audience to swallow the whole deal in two-three hour chunks. Short of playing the TOTAL fantasy route, which (I believe) most fans would find unsatisfying since Marvel in particular is supposed to occur in the real world, there's really no good way to do this. (AND IN CASE YOU'RE WONDERING --> X-Men falls under the rule ... it's NOT an exception, because the storyline there is "mutation." It's a single backstory, and it's WHY Juggernaut didn't find a magic gem or whatever. It's why everyone is explained away as a mutant no matter WHAT the comics said. Because you need a single narative thread or the audience will say, collectively, WHAT THE FUCK?!?)
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that, barring X-Men where everyone has the same background, a team up film isn't going to work. I'm especially doubtful because of Zak Penn's track record. Maybe if you focus on the big character, like Captain America, and then have everyone else play supporting roles (kind of like what they did in X-Men with Wolverine), but then what's the point of having a team-up in the first place. It's going to look awkward on screen and I don't think the audience is going to buy it.
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Love that dog from The Inhumans. He should have his own movie too. Couldn't be any worse than the Scooby Doo movies. Oh yeah Gerard butler as Iron Man, Paul Walker for Cap, The guy from the movie Invincible to play Thor or maybe Karl Urban. David Duchovny as the Hulk.
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Now that would be a cool movie.
But hey, they could make the Nights Of Wundagore backpack trade into a movie. It still ranks as my favorite Avengers run. Or how about the Avengers taking on the Grey Gargoyle, the Taskmaster and Red Ronin (Avengers 190-199) ?
And where is my Mr Fixit movie ?
And the Defenders movie (6 finger hand story) (Defenders 92-100) ?
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Words cannot describe... how this one comic book blew me away... and pretty much changed my life, ...this cinematic world that was completely new to my young mind. I was such a huge "STAR WARS" geek... but when I read and saw and experienced the AVENGERS KING-SIZED ANNUAL #7 from 1977 (from Jim Starlin), it was even BETTER than STAR WARS! OH MY GOD IT WAS BETTER AND IT STILL IS... YES, STILL IS... BETTER THAN "STAR WARS"! It was better at the time and it is better now. All you have to do is experience those images, that story, in your mind's eye... just as if you are witnessing it at your local movie theatre. --I didn't know these characters, these heroes, their origins, ...but I wanted to, as I discovered how incredible they are. And THAT is exactly how people should come to know them. Just as I did. I've long been dreaming of making movies. And this is one movie I've long been dreaming to make.
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I was never very interested in the original Avengers - seemed pretty boring, standard superhero stuff to me. That's why I gravitated towards X-Men - at least there seemed to be a reason why they were together besides 'fighting stuff' and they had a theme. Ultimates got me interested in the Avengers again because you could see how all these fucked up people would rely on each other, how they might be pawns of the government, and you could use the superhero genre to critique current political realities. The writing was good. The characters were actually engaging. To me, that is far more interesting than anything in the Avengers I'd ever been exposed to. Maybe you'd rather have fantasy people fighting other fantasy people for no apparent reason, but I live in 2006 and that Silver Age stuff is just boring to me.
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I don't open the boxes to my old comic books very often... but this one comic book is obviously very special to me, as it holds a special place. I love so much about this book, as an individual piece. In fact, it wasn't until years later, as an adult, that I searched for and purchased and read the 2nd part (another Annual), which I disliked. Yeah, that's right. It was forgettable... and I've forgotten it. But AVENGERS ANNUAL #7 can stand by itself. Yeah, Darth Vader got away... and so did Thanos. --The ending was like an ending to a great movie. And in just taking a moment to fill in those gaps not seen in the comic book, in just imagining how such a comic book could be realized as an epic film... well, I consistantly get goosebumps, which don't end until I get my mind off the sugject. IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THIS BOOK, YOU SHOULD. Maybe it won't come alive in your mind as it did for me, at my young age. But wow, ...how thrilling it would be to conceptually fill out those gaps for such an epic flick. IRON-MAN was so cool, ...standing at the window, having an unexplainable feeling of impending danger, flexing that incredible armor of his... and later, taking out the "smaller" space ships while THOR was taking out the larger ones. And I remember THOR screaming out in pain... "I AM STRUCK FROM ALL SIDES BY WEAPONS OF COSMIC MIGHT... YET THAT SHALL NOT STOP ME, FORE I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER AND LIGHTNING!" ...and I could see the REAL lightning jetting out from THOR in all directions, the explosions all around him like titanic fireworks. Awesome. Just Awesome. And just imagine how such scenes could be expanded. And those opening character moments, with Captain America and Beast (whom, I assume, would have to be replaced with a character who is NOT of the X-men). The whole thing, I love it. And Thanos is an evil that could rival Darth Vader as a cinematic great. This has so much potential, people. So much potential. I believe it could rival "STAR WARS" from back in the day. I honestly believe it. Such an experience CAN happen again... and eventually will. If only it would happen with THIS.
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could also be a great movie. Imagine what you could do with that. Their 62 issue run was already great. Their Avengers appearances were cool. Their Defenders appearances were cool. Bring on the Badoon.
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Certain individual moments, particularly the uses of the characters' powers, are truly awesome. Think of the scenes of Giant Man stepping over crowds, or Thor's lightning strikes and teleportation of whole armies, or any time Stark gets it together long enough to do heroic stuff as Iron Man. And Hawkeye, despite being a cold-blooded mercenary, is truly badass. If only they could ditch the the this idea that they have to behave as complete bastards to one another. They can still bicker, and disagree, and have weaknesses, just not amped up to the Jerry Springer levels of the Ultimates. Just leave the breathtaking, innovative depiction of their powers and abilities and give us characters we can relate to. And as much as I worship Samuel L. Jackson, the idea of The Chin in an eye patch as Nick Fury is too good to pass up.
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Why was my post from last night removed? I wrote: "PETER PARKER SHOULD FUCK SCARLET WITCH UP THE ASS WHILE THE HULK AND CAPTAIN AMERICA SUCK EACH OTHER OFF," and now I can't find it. Since when do you censor the talkbacks, Harry?
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where the Masters of Evil take the Avengers' Mansion, put Hercules in a coma, torture Jarvis in front of Cap and the Black Knight, then demolish the mansion when the Avengers take it back in the fight. Stern was a great writer, unlike the tacky celebrity writer of today. And Buscema's pencils? Gold. My second favorite arc is the one after that where they Avengers get punished by Zeus for getting Herc put in a coma. Though there are quite a few standout moments, what I love the best about the Avengers was that all of the characters carried on with their lives in relatively normal ways, had normal problems, and genuinely cared about each other and kept each other in line. Not tacky like the Ultimates or Avengers in the hands of celebrity writers who write them out of character because their ego said it was okay. The Ultimates are nothing but a bunch of prissy brats, just like their writer.
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still slamming Millar, regardless. Morrison, Millar, Bendis, the whole bunch can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. The further they are from superheroes, the better. Moore would be in that group as well, except he redeemed himself entirely with his ABC work.
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of cinematic appeal, but the parts don't add up to a whole. The purpose of the characters under Millar is that they ARE assholes. That's the joke - ha ha - get it? A lot of the Marvel Universe has gone asshole. Because, y'know, it's more realistic, and realism = cool. Bendis writes a couple of cool lines of dialogue in every comic, but it doesn't add up to a great character or a great comic. Everyone talks like Bendis in a Bendis comic. All the comics are structured like t.v. shows and paced super-thin for trades. I just stopped reading.
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Because Fury is a hard-nosed nutbuster of a guy. That wasn't much of a change. However, I prefered SHIELD as superhero 007 and not Black Helicopter conspiracy crap.
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In fact, I said so up there on August 11th, 2006, 10:00:18 AM CST. I don't think the Ultimates storylines should be adapted, because in my mind they degrade the essential heroism of the iconic characters. And watching a movie about a bunch of people I can't stand is just as bad as reading about them. Besides, it's already been done--badly--in direct to DVD animation. I merely meant that the screenwriters (hopefully anyone but Zak Penn) can strike a middle ground between Millar's truly cinematic displays of power in the action set pieces, which are the only things I enjoy about the Ultimates, and the true characterizations of the Avengers in the original books. Unavoidably updated for modern sensibilities of course, but not twisted to Millar's despicable levels. Additionally, I would hope that Fury wouldn't be involved in the Avengers movie, because one of the most irritating things about the Ultimate Universe is that SHIELD apparently runs everything. But if he has to be there, I'd go for a Fury that's a no-nonsense techno-spy rather than a too-cool-for-tha-muthafuckin-room Jules Whitfield ripoff. Unless of course Quentin Tarantino is directing.
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I guess the whole being bastards to one another is the low point, but at the same time if they did ultimates it would be so revolutionary, people would love the movie, apart from the truly epic displays of power that are just begging to be shown on the big screen, things like politcal commentary, the violence and the bickering, it would be different than standard fare in superhero movies. batman begins was different because it was plausible and was drama rather than melodrama and the next one is a crime war drama. from a cinematic point of view ultimates is the way to go. leave the heroism and love each other stuff to a jla movie. an ultimates movie would seriously make a lot of money. Imagine the intro of captain america in the shadows on the plane and bucky saying that cap thinks parachutes are for girls. and then trying to stop the missile. then cuts to tony stark on a mountain. truly amazing. captain america waking up and taking out everyone in the room. then seeing the hulk rampage through new york and giant man walking through the streets. then the skrull invasion and thor and iron man flying through the ships. that is a movie. plus the chin as nick fury, i mean cmon. Plus i don't see this geek hate with ultimates, i can understand if you don't want the movie but acting as miller should have made it like the standard avengers is ridiculous, if you want those avengers then read them, i was blown away by this new take, so were others considering the critical and fan acclaim and the sales.
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Zak Penn has said in an interview that it's mainly influenced by the ultimates than the standard 616 avengers.
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When you have the entire interconnected Marvel Universe how can Fox own Spider-Man and the related characters? For example, Kingpin started as a SpiderMan villain, but they used him in the Daredevil movie. How does that work? If someone could clear this up for me I'd be very grateful.
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The Ultimate Universe has ruined my respect for Marvel. Revisionist Marvel characters just confuse die-hard older fans.
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Just had to throw in my rant about how much I despise the Ultimates. :) Did I mention I despise the Ultimates? I don't have a problem with the cinematic qualities of Hitch's art or that kind of scope being on the screen. Frankly, I'd like it to be a bit less predictable, though (even though the images are beautiful). I just don't want Cap saying things like "Do you know what this A stands for?" and the Hulk threatening to rape the love of his life, suggested incest between the Scarlett Witch and her brother, etc. But that's what these lowlifes will do a variation on, because they think that's funny and "real". I don't know about you, but I never read comic books for realism. The one thing they did do interestingly was Thor and no one knowing whether or not he really was what he claimed, which is true to the original Avengers, just as it is in JLA where Batman assumes Wonder Woman's gods are metahumans and doesn't believe they are divine. I'd love to see all these characters true to the way they were written for years standing all together as a team. Honestly, I don't think this would be that hard to pull off. We don't need the origin of every character and their backstory. One thing I find so interesting about these superhero films is they keep repeating the origin story every time - a lot of the origins are fairly repetitive past a certain point. What ever happened to people explaining things like backstory in dialogue while the plot advancing?
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If the Ironman movie is a success or failure, there is no possible way for him to transition onto the Avengers set. Hulk definitely wouldn't make the team. The team will consist of Cap and a bunch of second stringers played by unknown actors. The budget of the film is supposedly a paltry 164 million. There is no way a studio could afford to pay for much more than a direct to DVD live-action crap-fest unless they make some sacrifices. If the Ironman movie does well then the actor will require too much money to reprise the role. It could be done, but you would have to cut the team to three Avengers and slice the effects quality. They just shouldn't make an Avengers flick. They won't be able to do it justice and if you can't do something right...
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It was better in the 80s when it was called Watchmen and was original. Millar is not a genius, he is, in fact, unimaginative. Ultimates is simply following trends in cinema and culture with nihilism and paranoia. Something imaginative would have been reinterpreting the characters by making them have something new to say instead of crapping on them like a 12 year old.
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the actor has to do x number of sequels and at least one additional film.
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Did he commit to sequels and at least one solo film, or did he sign for the solo film after the first was relatively successful?`
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I wouldn't want the first Avengers film to be cosmic in nature. I'd save that for a sequel as it would be difficult to top. I kind of like the idea of Loki meddling and that drawing Thor in, instead of them having to come look for Thor. I like the idea of Thor being pompous but being won over by the heroic humans and wanting to hang with them. Loki's involvement also gives Thor a sense of personal responsibility, instead of him coming and going whenever there's a big threat (which is mostly how he is handled in Ultimates).
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Remember what Favreau said for casting Iron Man: he's looking at 30-something actors who've been kicking around but never headlines a movie. Which means he's looking for someone he can pay about $10 to $12 million for and lock into potential sequels. Considering that all of these films are being produced by Marvel, it would only make sense that they'd lock them into at least one or two sequels and one ensemble movie. I believe all of the X-Men were signed for three movies, with Jackman renegotiating for a producer role on the solo Wolverine movie.
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And I'd be equally surprised that if once it does come out, it's actually good. They'll probably have a devil of a time witht the story. And even if it appeals to us, it's got to reach a huge audience outside of fanboys, or else pray for terrific home video revenue like Superman Returns is having to do now. http://www.superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=4636
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Because it would blow. Cap doesn't work as a solo character in this day and age, not enough to carry a movie, not in the current climate. But if Iron Man works out then they have the perfect reason to do an Avengers movie: to INTRODUCE Cap through the whole 'discovered frozen in the ice' storyline. He's thawed just as the Avengers are formed and need a leader, etc.
Just like doing Dr. Strange as straight-up horror, and the original Green Lantern-Alan Scott story are the only way those work, this is the only way the Avengers is anything but Corman-style FF schlock. -
"Hulk smash, Brother!"
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movie set in WWII and it could make tons of money. If it was set up as a straight good vs evil movie with Cap kicking Nazi behind and him making a personal sacrifice by ending up frozen in ice at the end. The critics would probably slam it as jingoistic, antagonistic to the international audience given the timing, and give it bad reviews based on personal politics, but who cares what they think? I thought Hollywood was in the business of making money. At least that's what they claim. No one in the audience will go to a Captain America movie expecting a criticism of the current administration. That would be a huge mistake on the part of the filmmakers, equal to a Superman Returns misstep. People wanted an uplifting Superman film that represented higher ideals and a message of hope, the kind of things we normal folks fail to live up to every day. People wanted to be inspired, and instead they got a "realistic" Superman.
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movies by using the characters to comment on the current zeitgeist, let Cap comment on modern times in an Avengers movie once he has thawed out.
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I have been dreaming for many years of not one badass Avengers movie but at least 3 or 4, with the first one that would recap a little and continues from Captain America and even shows us a bit of other golden age heroes with a short appearance with a WW2 Invaders scene. Also The Avengers:" In the sequel, decades after World War 2, after being lost in combat and presumed dead, Captain America would finally be found frozen in ice and rescued, only to slowly be brought back to consciousness. Without giving away too much details, leaving some for the Avengers movie, from a Captain America point of view as he would first wake up, opening his eyes after decades, he would see dark and blurry figures of very strange people around him, like in a dream mostly all just a few out of focus images of a thunder god, a man in golden armor, the eyes of a giant, and a miniature woman, and voices in the background speaking of him, just before falling back into unconsciousness. Then he would wake up again, but this time in an hospital bed, and to avoid shocks, Steve Rogers could have the truth hidden from him, and his caretakers would try to make him believe he was still in the 1940's, by showing around him in old fashion clothes, old street cars, using old technologies, and old music on old radios, all in a small restricted area in a city block. But Cap would sense something wrong, noticing tiny mistakes like a Japanese made watch and a German made medical tool; and eventually he would escape thinking he was caught by the enemy, still in World War trying to get top-secret information. Once out and running outside of the restricted zone, Steve Rogers would discover that he is home in a new age and reality as a man out of time". -> http://groups.msn.com/HEROESCOMICS/avengers.msnw
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It would be pretty fucked up seeing these guys fighting each other with Hulk doing mass killings.
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As long as they stay away from the extremism of the Ultimates and stay closer to the regular Earth's Mightiest Heroes The Avengers, with Captain America side-wings on, and Hulk not able to lift Thor's hammer, all should be fine. The compromise Ultimate Avengers animation had some real cool fight scenes
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Please no Hackman Shockvalue Gimmick Millar rip off, The Ultimates is just a steal from Stan Lee & Jack Kirby's Avengers, with the stories simply retold in modern time with lots of stupidity disrespect and exaggeration. And Hopefully the names Stan Lee & Jack Kirby will be shown and honor in the beginning of every movies along with Joe Simon co-credits of Captain America. They should make this only Earth's Mightiest Heroes The Avengers, or just don't bother
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I actually liked the series, but only as a what if? scenario. I would never want to read an ongoing Ultimate Avengers book. The problem with Ultimate Avengers is that it tries to take superheroes and put them into the real world, but they're still some super soldier from WWII, some guy in a mechanical suit, and someone who can grow fifty-feet tall. In other words, they're kind of ridiculous, but superheroes are supposed to be ridiculous and fantastic. They should be the product of an unhinged imagination and not tethered to the real world. So, Ultimates is fine as a one shot deal (I never read the second series), but I don't want that to be the single vision audiences have of the Avengers in the same way that popular audences only thought of Adam West when they thought of Batman (which had the opposite problem).
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those for old-school Avengers and those for Ultimates. I'm definitely on the Ultimates side, as I've said, but there's no reason why you can't take the sensibilities of the one and apply it to the other. Frankly, the whole notion of superheroes as fantasy escapism is extremely uninteresting to me. What's wrong with commenting on the world today? As long as filmmakers are human beings located in a particular place and time, that's going to happen anyway. Even escapist entertainment says something about the time it was produced (indicating the need for escapism - reminds me of Ozymandias' observation in Watchmen that times of war are reflected in the media as violent imagery combined with fantasy wish fulfillment). As long as it's done artfully, superhero films can make for great commentary on society. To me, there's no other reason to do them. If you want Silver Age, or whenever, you'll always have those comics (and they commented on the time they were produced). Why make films like these if they're not doing something new? If you're not going to reflect something about this day and age?
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As someone said, Ultimates was fine as a "What-If?" type of scenario, but it basically alters the classic nature of the already existing characters. To do a movie that basically defies the roughly 40-year history of the characters would be a real miscalculation, I think. One of my strongest childhood memories is lying on the living room floor reading an early Avengers comicbook. For an Avengers film to succeed, I think it needs to appeal to the broadest possible fan-base, not just to the small segment that came to the characters late and whose main impression of them is the Ultimates version. Rather, the film should appeal to the larger fan base by sticking with classic interpretations of the characters, not trendy alternative takes like the Ultimates*****For example, Captain America, while not as classic an icon as Superman, is still rather well-known and iconic for a Marvel character. He has both mainstream fans and hard-core comicbook fans. It would be wise to remain true to the "classic" nature of this character rather than to a revisionist "Ultimates" version.***** Just as Superman Returns did less well than it should have, so would a film version of the Ultimates Avengers, in my opinion. The reason being is this: filmmakers need to energize the hard-core fans as a base, and please more mainstream fans as well. The Avengers has a roughly 40 year history with many decades of fans and stories. Ultimates is just a more recent and superficial reinterpretation that does not have any such history, and so has less of a real core of dedicated fans. Part of the reason Superman Returns did middling business despite good mainstream reviews was that word-of-mouth was bad, especially amongst hard-core fans. The movie was just not inspiring to old-school fans, and it added non-canonical elements to the character and mythos that people generally did not like (the super-kid being the main example). Hard-core fans must be appeased to make these films big successes. They drive a lot of the word-of-mouth, provide a strong core of the tickets sold, and will see a movie multiple times (and bring friends) if the movie gets under their skin. If Superman Returns excited the fan base, it would have done much better business. Personally, I went to see it once, was underwhelmed, and did not see it again. When I saw Batman Begins, I was excited by what the filmmakers did, and I saw the film several times, and recommended it to others. *****The key reason that a superhero movie will do well: Appeal to mainstream movie-goers without alienating the hard-core fan-base. The way to do this is to film the most popular version of the character (or characters) in a way that is true to the fans and the material. Usually, this means being true to classic elements of the characters, not "alternate" versions of the characters, such as the Ultimates. While Ultimates may appeal to a small segment of the younger fan population, the filmmakers would be foolish to write off all of the people who grew up reading the Avengers over many decades. Ultimates is just a phase or a fad, albeit an interesting one. To build an enduring franchise, or at least a successful film, the filmmakers really would be wise to be true to the classic versions of the characters, as opposed to the revisionist and faddish version presented in the Ultimates comics. *****The filmmakers should read the original Avengers comics, and then scan the 40-year history for the best Avengers stories. The height of the classic Avengers stories is probably the run illustrated by the great George Perez. This showcases some of the best stories, as well as some of the best Avengers line-ups and characterizations (Iron Man and Cap as both rivals and allies, Hank Pym at his most interesting as Yellowjacket, the struggles of the Wonder Man character, the Wasp, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, the Vision, Thor, etc). The George Perez Avengers also showcase some great villains, including Count Nefaria and Ultron, who, along with Kang the Conqueror, are amongst the best of the Avengers villains.*****In sum, while the Ultimates version of the Avengers is an interesting alternative take on the characters, a successful movie that needs to appeal to several generations of fans should relay on a more classic version of the team and its characters.
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...so I say they should make my dream flick based on AVENGERS ANNUAL #7 from '77. Right from the beginning, they should make this thing REAL in a STAR WARS kind of way. You take us back... and create this world that we all wish we could be a part of. God, how I wish I was making movies today. I'd so much want to make this flick... and even now, I feel like I'm about to burst. I just KNOW they have something very special here. The world needs a story like this. The world needs heroes like this. Inspire us. Amaze us. Make us dream. --I'd be okay with George Lucas making this thing. --These heroes can be better than us and should be worthy of our love for them as characters. I really like the ULTIMATES. But THAT movie, as good as that movie could be, would fail to measure up to our beloved AVENGERS, ...as these heroes are so much more worthy of our attention. And in so being, worthy of box office numbers.
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Typical overestimation of fan influence. Step outside of AICN world for a moment. 'Fans' do not make or break a film. Moviegoers do. Joe Family who takes the kids. (and fans generally don't really know what will make a good movie either). Singer's Superman was a hard sell because its themes were too adult for kids, but the idea of Superman in love or even superheroes in general turns off many adults, so it was stuck in the middle. As I've said many times, I still thought it was a great interpretation. My opinion, take it or leave it. But I think a superhero film should be made on what actually is a good story, not whether something appeals to 'fans' or not or whether something has more of a history with fans or not. Just because Avengers has older stories doesn't necessarily mean they are good ones that are filmworthy. And really, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between Ultimate Cap and classic Cap, for instance. Are the characters really that different? Hulk felt different, but I guess they needed an antagonist. Though I'm not necessarily impressed with Penn's track record, I think he has the right idea to take the cinematic quality of Ultimates and apply it to his own story combining elements of the various runs. 'Fans ' may want to see their favorite comics adapted directly to screen, but outside of Sin City (which was mainly a mood genre piece), that just doesn't work.
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utter abuse of character turning him into a stalking loser. I disagree about it being too adult and therefore falling in the middle. It has had an underwhelming performance because it is simply a bad film. Weakly scripted, abysmally plotter, poorly conceived and acted (these are in no particular order- just as they occur to mue) and downright fucking boring.
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I know it's pointless to go on, but everything you've just said about Superman Returns describes a different movie to me. I thought the idea, themes and story were great, I was impressed by Routh's performance, and I was engaged for every second of the film. Calling Supes a stalking loser is just typical of the irrational hatred for this film by 'fans' who didn't get their vision of Superman made and completely missed the point of what Singer was doing.
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What we have here is a failure to communicate. Both versions (ULTIMATES or AVENGERS) could be good, ...even excellent. But which version will audiences really go for, when both are at the top of their game? It's obvious. Just look at box office history. A GREAT adaption of AVENGERS ANNUAL #7 could set the box office on fire like it hasn't seen in decades! But you'll have to leave the ULTIMATES-style grey areas for a future movie, ...one with a different approach.
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I think the point is that fans ARE movie-goers. The reason that movies like STAR WARS and LORD OF THE RINGS are/were so big is that they were good movies that appealed to a wider base of movie-goers AND they energized the already existing fan-base for these types of movies. Hard-core fans will generate a lot of positive buzz for movies that they like, they will see the movies multiple times, and they will encourage others to go (fans and non-fans alike). So, I must respectfully disagree. A movie that pisses off the built-in fan base will blunt its box office, in my opinion, and that is part of what we saw with SUPERMAN RETURNS. The movie turned off fans and non-fans alike. Again, I will note that I saw the LORD OF THE RINGS movies, X-MEN, SPIDERMAN, and BATMAN BEGINS more than once in the theatres, encouraged others to go see them, and bought DVDs. SUPERMAN RETURNS I saw once, and did not talk it up to anyone else. So, yes, the film-makers need to make a good movie that appeals to a broad audience, but they also should not alienate the hard-core of dedicated fans that can provide a strong nucleus for their audience, as well as generate positive buzz for the film as well as repeat ticket sales.
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