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Quint has seen Oliver Stone's WORLD TRADE CENTER...
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I know I promised to have this one done today... I keep my promises (sometimes). Here are my thoughts on Oliver Stone's controversial (is there an Oliver Stone movie not surrounded by controversy? Maybe THE HAND...) new film, WORLD TRADE CENTER.
I read an early draft of the script for this film and wasn't too impressed. Thankfully, the shooting draft feels more natural. The script I read had a great structure... you meet some men, the buildings are attacked, you follow the men into the buildings, expecting a big actioneer "Let's rescue everybody!" movie and boom... the buildings fall on top of the men and more than half the picture is you with a couple of these guys as they struggle for survival, pinned underneath tons upon tons of rubble. The structure was good, the idea for the script was good, but the dialogue was god-awful.
Keep in mind, I'm still talking about that early draft. The film I saw had very few of that draft's weaknesses, but all of its strengths.
One thing I really dug about the script was that you never saw the towers. Either they were obscured in ash or something happens to them off camera... or you're in the buildings. I was actually really surprised when I saw the film just how much 9/11 imagery Stone put into the flick. For the most part (about 90% of it) if you see the twin towers it's as we all saw them that day. On television, footage from the street as it was happening. There are a few shots of the towers created for this film, but nothing gratuitous.
I didn't think it'd be a smart move to put the burning towers all over the film, that it'd come off as phony, just an easy way to go for the heart-strings. I was wrong. You know what the most emotional shots of the movie were for me? It wasn't the towers in flames. It wasn't people jumping off the roof. It was the very beginning, when we see New York wake up that morning and from dark to dusk to full daylight we see the World Trade Center buildings once again a part of the New York City skyline. I personally didn't realize how empty the new skyline looks without the towers until I saw the opening of this film.
I'm gonna go off on another small tangent here, but I saw an episode of Penn & Teller's BULLSHIT where they investigated the behind the scenes activity (or lack thereof) regarding the land that the WTC used to stand on. What are they going to do? Build another building? Build a giant monument? Get caught up in indecision until 5 whole years has passed by and it's still just a giant hole in the ground? The episode explored why there was no development and looked at the proposed plans for monuments/museums/buildings to erect on the site. They were all ridiculous. At the end of the episode, Penn & Teller say (paraphrased, of course), "You know what we should build on the site, that would act as a big fuck you to the terrorists... this..." and they showed a picture of the Twin Towers, just as we knew them. I thought it was a good idea then and after seeing the skyline back to what it should be in WORLD TRADE CENTER, I'm completely for that idea.
But now I'm back... so far there hasn't been much of a review here. Sorry... this is a tough one to write. My overall feelings on the film are very positive. It's a good film with some minor flaws. It's very honest and respectful, but doesn't delve into the politics. I had been told that Stone was trying to make a movie that reminded people of how unified we were because of that disaster, to bring the emotion back into it. Right now it's such a huge talking point in politics, with both sides repeating it over and over again. It's become politicized and some may argue that's more of a disgrace to those who died and those who risked their lives for other people than any movie can be. The goal for Stone was to clear away the politics and remind us about the good that America showed that day.
I feel Stone achieved that.
The flaws of the movie... well, there are the funny, surface flaws... like Maria Bello's awful blue contacts... when you have any sort of close look at her you can see her brown eyes underneath giving an eerie effect. Then there are the flaws leftover from the crappy early draft I read.
Once our two leads are trapped, Stone doesn't have the nerve to keep the drama on them. Some of my favorite moments in the film are these two guys trying to keep each other alive. They can't see each other, they can only hear each other. These moments come off as very honest and are really touching. But the decision was made back in that early script that we would follow not only the two Port Authority men as they try to hang on to life, but their families at home. This is a double edged sword for the film because half the time we see the wives of the men and their children I really felt like it made the drama in the rubble better. The other half of the time, it really just goes overboard.
There are dream sequences, as Nicolas Cage and Michael Pena drift in and out of consciousness, that don't work at all for me. These sequence feel forced, convenient and contrived. They could totally be 100% accurate to what these men went through, but on celluloid I don't think it helped the film.
But for every over-the-top drug store moment (you'll know it when you see it) with the wives, there's a scene of one of the mothers praying, her body so slumped and shaking that I almost believed I was seeing what these characters' mothers went through in that day and night when they didn't know if their sons were alive or dead.
All the performances are top notch. Even Nicolas Cage manages to not be distracting. I think if this film gets any sort of nominations we'll see a Supporting Actor nod go to Michael Pena. Jay Hernandez does strong work in the flick, too. Despite my problems with many scenes involving their characters, I also quite liked Maria Bello and Maggie Gyllenhaal. Bello in particular does solid work, even through those awful contacts.
At the end of the movie, there's a lengthy text that tells us what has happened for these families since 9/11 and then there was a listing of all the Port Authority Officers who died that day... If I remember correctly, it was over 80 names.
Almost the entire audience stayed through all these names and when "Directed by Oliver Stone" popped up, the crowd applauded.
It'll be very easy for many people to put themselves above this movie. This isn't dogme 95 real. This isn't a documentary. It is a feature length studio picture, with all the benefits and some of the detriments. To me, this film didn't feel like a cash-in. It doesn't feel like a story that didn't need to be told. For some it will still be too soon. For some it'll be too glossy and not edgy enough. But I don't think anybody will honestly look at this film and see it as a money grab, at least not from the filmmaker's side of things.
Like anything filled with big emotion, it goes overboard sometimes, but the film felt very honest to me. If its goal is to bring the tragedy back from a grey political realm, devoid of emotion, I think it succeeded very well. I know as I was watching the film, I couldn't help but project my own memories of that day and see myself sitting in a house I don't live in now, glued to the TV, like millions of Americans and billions of people around the world.
I really have no idea how this film will do. The audience tonight seemed to be deeply involved with the events unfolding on the screen, but I have no idea if other audiences will be like mine last night.
I know the above was a bit more sombre than my reviews usually are, but you can always go read my TALLADEGA NIGHTS review for the more humorous anecdotes. I'll be back soon with the rest of my Comic-Con interviews and the results of my two contests (Weta's SUPERMAN RETURNS and Sideshow's JAWS statues). Stay tuned for that!
-Quint
Quint
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IT WAS CONMTROLLED DEMOLISTION
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And get the fuck out of here.
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it was a self inflicted wound!
look it up on the net... -
Does the film show the US government sending military jets into the buildings and firing missiles before impact? How about setting off the demolition charges to bring down towers 1, 2 and 7? Does it show that George Bush's cousin was in charge of security at the towers and let "strange security personal" in the week before and shut down the power to the buildings for hours at a time. Theses security guards had large duffle bags with them. Does it show the massive bombs going off in the basement of the towers? How about the control room for this orchestra of destruction in Tower 7 where Guliani was informed to evacuate as the towers were coming down. That's why the building was "pulled" as the owner mentioned on a PBS documentary to hide the evidence of what had occured. I hope if Stone doesn't show that then Michael Moore will in his follow up to Fahrenheit 9/11.
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It will take a few years for the scars from seeing WTC to fully heal, and until then, please refrain from reviewing the movie and bringing those memories back to the surface.
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come up with this bollocks? Seriously? do you really believe this conspiracy rubbish?
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so I am going to spend the rest of my working day banging my head on the proverbial brick wall the, am I?
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every american should watch it, very interesting
-lihopper -
Your ignorance regarding your conspiracy theories is distasteful and a smack in the face to not only the people that died that day, but this country as a whole. Yes, Bush is an idiot. Yes, his administration is terrible. Get over it and stop trying to conjure up these claims you make. "Look it up on the net" says one of you. As if that means anything. You're too busy pulling this shit out of your ass, causing you to really lose focus on REALITY. And for the record, they pulled that building down because it could have come down at any time. It was a danger. Common sense.
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but I'm sure it'll always be TOO SOON for those closest to the event. And the hype that this movie will get won't be easy for the victim's families to experience. I hope the movie is produced (and critiqued) with respect.
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that this is a re-run??? I saw this fucking movie on TV about 5 years ago! Not bad as I recall,loved the docu-drama feel. The only downside was the shitsplat they got to play the President..
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In honor of the people that died, and to spite the conspiracy junkies. No talkbacks from here on out!! How about it....
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How about it. To honor them and to spite the conspiracy junkies. Let's not feed their delusions. No talkbacks from here on out regarding this post... you up for it people! Let the junkies have their say with no audience.
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But truth is he is in need for a good flick - bad. I'll catch it becasue Cage but otherwise- I'd pass
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It's not like WORLD TRADE CENTER was made by the Red Cross or something and being shown to audiences for free. Like you said, it's a major studio release that's looking to rake in the bucks at the BO. Otherwise there would be no marketing campaign.
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God why? That's like people who get excited that Clark Kent never changes into Superman on Smallville. It's just so pretentious. The whole film is about the trade center collapsing, wouldn't it be kind of important to show it? That's like having a film about the Titanic but never showing it sink.
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You'll see it all in this film, how Bush plotted with Osama to single out those flights and put Snakes on the Planes! The government doesn't want you to know about all the dead rattlers found scattered around Ground Zero or the snakeskins discarded all around Flight 93's impact site. That's right, you Mountain Dew chugging, Dorito eating geeks...it's a conspiarcy all right! Wouldn't you nutjobs spend two hours creaming your Star Wars underoos if Stone really HAD made his version of "Loose Change"? Well here's a fun fact: if Oliver Stone is making a movie about something and not suggesting any conspiracies in it, then by God there are no conspiracies to be found.
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has anyone seen it? Its pretty crazy how they tie man conspiricies to 9/11. Google Loose Change 911 and they will direct you to the movie on line. IT has its weaknesses but overall its an interesting flick...especially the info about the missle hitting the pentagon
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1. Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy.
2. The moon landing was real.
3. The government did not implode the World Trade Center. Those 8 men flying two aircraft did.
Everyone, please watch the Penn and Teller episode about conspiriacies. -
First of all, learn how to fucking spell. Second, a controlled demolition still means 9/11 happened. Your are a grenade throwing fuckwit, just one of many who cause these TBs to spiral into vicious insanity.
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Look it up online. It's fucking hysterical. I bet if you look hard enough you can find pictures of Osama Bin Laden fisting Zfisk/ homewreckers mum whilst the ghost of Pablo Escobar masturbates in the background.
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http://tinyurl.com/ppj3c
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God, why are people so fucking stupid and so easily convinced about nonsense?
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We should all shut our mouths, plug our ears and keep our heads down. We should never question anything this government does or has done. We should honor those victims by letting no stone be turned. We should go shopping and if the president happens to come on the news and inform us that we are going to war then it is our duty to blindly follow his request for our lives. Its the only way the victims of 9/11 will ever find peace. It doesn't matter how suspicious something may seem. They've told us what happened that day and that is what matters. WHAT THEY TOLD US.
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high on extasy and under the employment of the Carlyle Group. Everybody knows that.
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Do you want to know who pedals this conspiracy shyt? Take a gander at this and try not to lose your lunch. Despicable douchebags all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uFNBpjZCI4
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In 50 years it will still be too soon for me. That day changed my life and my outlook on the rest of the world. And I hate it.
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Wouldn't you say that the video you linked to was just as manipulative as Loose Change? Comments have been disabled for the video so you can't even speak your mind and tell how you feel about it. Things like this just keep us all going in circles chasing after our tails.
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I'll never understand why they felt they HAD to take all visual reference to the towers out of Spidey 1. I know it was very soon after the tragedy, but I kinda felt it was like giving in, when keeping the towers in the movie would have been a bold, beautiful tribute. I hope to hell after Spidey III they do a trilogy box set with the full, restored original WTC Spidey 1. And as far as I'm concerned, no 911 film will top the "911" film made by those two brothers who were filming a documentary about the firemen. That had it all, and it was live and real and brutal. That's the one every American should see.
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The government's official explanation for what happened is much less plausible than many 'conspiracy' theories. But most people close their ears, they don't want to hear that anyone other than random Asians from that place somewhere in the East orchestrated this. That's because it's much more frightening. No-one wants to believe that the world is being run a certain way, a way where a couple of thousand deaths mean very little compared with American advancement and billions upon billions of dollars. They know that the people would never accept or understand what was going on, so it's better not to tell them. The Cold War was mostly bullshit to allow further development of weapons and technology even in peacetime. Kennedy promised we would reach the moon within a decade. He was killed then the landings were faked, and the Russians didn't blow the whistle because the U.S. provided them with grain and also they would blow the whistle on the BS surrounding the first man in space (the number of faceless cosmonauts that died in attempts, then Yuri Gagarin as the 'official' first man in space - meaning the first man in space that didn't bite it). He he.
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I think the 9/11-Was-A-Conspiracy movement, and conspiracy theories in general, are a distinctively American thing. Part of being an American is having a relationship with your government, dysfunctional or otherwise. Conspiracy theorists, like alienated teenagers and their parents, don't believe a thing their government tells them, precisely because it's their government. There's a little bit of an inferiority complex there, too: do they really think I'm that stupid?, etc. Not to say we shouldn't keep an eye on our government, but exalting them to the status of master deceivers and supervillians is a compliment they probably don't deserve.
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glare fron tin foil hats blindig mw...aaaargh!
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I'm just not really interested. Like it's been said, we were all there. I remember what that day was like for me. I'm not going to force feed myself a reminder. I'll see it should the opportunity arise only. That said, People who don't question ANYTHING about 911 really need to see they are just as bad as those who question EVERYTHING.
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had Spidey ensnaring a helicopter in a web suspended between the twin towers. You don't think that would have been a tad distracting?
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in order to despise many government actions. Imminent domain, anyone?
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Exactly what I was thinking after reading calami's post. If you do believe this drivel you actually undermine legitimate concerns you may have. i'm off to the pub. You fucking lunatics- keep taking the thorazine. Try not to spontaneously combust before I get back to read the highly amusing product of your insanity.
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The "controlled demolition" theories are moronic in that they are so unnecessarily complicated. Why spend hundreds of manhours prepping the buildings with charges , under the constant risk of exposure, when two fully fuelled airliners would be more than enough? This is "Hulk Smash!" technology. What galls me is when I hear "Condi" saying things like(paraphrasing) "we just couldn't imagine someone using planes to attack buildings." Are these people so devoid of imagination and functional intellectual capacity? Have none of them ever read a comic book? Is "Hulk Smash!" Esperonto to these idiots? The two parties who got a HUGE pass on the Towers were the airlines for failing for DECADES to improve security protocols and the Port Authority for cutting corners on the construction of the Towers by abusing their exemption from local building codes.
As for Stone, I have always considered him to a patriot and a great lover of the American Dream, which means having the guts to make us look at our low points as well as our high points. Not showing the Towers being hit is a matter of peronal taste and artistic style. For me, we've all seen it a zillion times, does it NEED to be digitially rendered in HD and heard in THX? This film is about the people on that day, about US. -
I don't think it was ever going to be in the film. It was in theatres before a single foot of film had been shot for the actual movie. I do remember them pulling that trailer from cinemas and thinking "Why?" If anything, it would have been more amazing to see those buildings up on the big screen. But I guess only if they're CG nowadays.
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Cuz the witnesses can actually say what happened in this movie.
flight 93 can still be argued what really happened -
Manipulative
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According to the cuntrag Anne Coulter, all Democrats are godless heathens who deflect opposition by parading out 9/11 widows, Iraq amputees, Blacks left to die in New Orleans, ect. Is it our fault that Bush's policies have caused so many people in the country and the world to be shit on repeatedly? So what is Bush doing every time he makes a speach in front of some branch of the Military? Ohhh, right he's honoring them as heroes, not taking advantage of their inability to 'booo' or ask questions. My point is that Republicans are guilty of the same tactic. Bush hides behind the 'Heroes' of 9/11 relying on the fact that no-one has the balls to question why. (The Fireman/Police/Military are just to fucking stupid to realize they are being used, apparently.) Bush has little if nothing to say or do about the 'Victims' of 9/11, most likely because they all think he is a fucktard. Rightly so. I know this has little to do with 'WTC', but I just hate Anne Cuntler. Wont see WTC, I saw it on tv for real a few years ago, once was enough. SUPPORT THE TROOPS, GET THEM OUT NOW!
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This ongoing debate, dialogue, screaming match, whatever-you-want-to-call-it reminds me of two incidents. I apologize in advance as this might be kind of wordy.
Malcom X, when asked what he thought about the Kennedy assassination, whether he thought it was a lone gun-man or conspiracy; responded, and I paraphrase, "It didn't really matter...it was chickens coming home to roost." You can take that statement a couple different ways, but in effect he was saying that the reasons, circumstances and result were the same either way. The lessons we should have learned from 9/11, we obviously didn't. I don't believe it was a conspiracy, but the effect was the same. Namely, to make Americans into frightened little pussies, willing to back without question any war-time atrocity, any affront to our civil liberties in the name of "security". In essence to give Bush/Cheney the mandate they didn't get in the 2000 election, or conversely for the Islamic extremists, to force America into a bunch of blind foreign policy blunders that do everything to reinforce the perception globally that we're a bunch of global bullies who will run rough-shod over anything and anyone that gets in our way.
The second incident concerns a reporter interviewing Picasso. The reporter commented that Picasso was very brave to have created the painting "Guernica" at the time he did. Picasso responded that no he wasn't brave at all, all he did was paint a painting. If he had been brave, he said, he "would have picked up a rifle and fought the Fascists side-by-side with his countrymen." So to all you conspiracy loudmouths, if you've got a point to make, get off your asses and make it. You think the "Man" has us all by the balls, then Fight The Power baby. Nattering on-and-on about it on the internet doesn't count, nobody cares and you're not convincing anyone, except maybe Charlie Sheen. But it seems he spends too much time online himself. -
Bishop6, midgard serpent, calami-shami, performingmonkey and others. I seriously hope you can one day have the retarded part of your brain removed and actually make some fucking sense. You're all douchebags, but I guess without you the rest of us would never able to feel as good about ourselves as we do. Because we're not fucking morons... get it?
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ManInSuit or PrayingMantisInACocktailDress.
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http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
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I actually think I'm a little dumber than I was before.
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Snickers bar
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lol, you are a monument to irony.
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I was about to link to Maddox's post on it myself... How these retards can say that the Bush Administration is both completely incomptent AND perpetrators of the biggest rouse/coverup in the history of western civilization is beyond me... not one actual piece of evidence is present in any of these theories, its all conjecture, i'm sure if i had hours of discussion i could find a way to make it sound like "bishop06 likes licking big huge donkey penis", but i don't need to, because we already know he likes the big floppy donkey dick
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I love it. Call "bullshit" on these conspiracy retards, challenge them to do something other than yak, and they got nothing to say.
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You've all gone mad. Convieniantly at the same time as myself. Thanks guys.
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Classic, MNG. Very nice. Coulter truly is a disgusting piece of work.
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conspiracy theorists and debunkers aside here, is anyone just going to go see it because they are a huge movie nerd and are somewhat curious about this? as a movie??? You're not stiffing it to Hollywood. You geeks payed to see Clerks 2 and Revenge of the Sith, right? Hollywood won't crumble if you decide to play X-box instead of going with your friends to see this. I just think the "I was already there that day" explaination doesn't have anything to do with how the movie is.....It's fine to not see it because you can't look at those images again, but isn't anyone curious? You'll never know. Do you just want to be able to tell someone two years from now that you didn't go see the two 9/11 movies that came out because you are a better person than that?
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greatest moment of my life was being a window washer there, never been more proud of anything and the scars i got that day i sadly carry them with me forever but, proud none the less........
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...is like being bukakked with stupid." Thanks for that link, zerogundamx.
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i agree with you that the CTers sound like a bunch of highschool juniors hanging out in the dim living room of their loser drop out friend's smokey apartment. Dylan does look like the "Dell Dude". I can see were credibility jumps off the cliff without a parachute right there.
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Let me see if I
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The only 9/11 movies I will EVER see are the ones donating 100% of their profits to the families of those lost.
Seriously, there is no excuse for hollywood to make any profit off our own tragedy. (Im not talking about effects costs and salaries, I mean PROFITS)
Can anyone seriously give me a reason why these schmucks deserve to earn a single dime off something like this? -
I truly enjoy debates like this on this site. I do. No sarcasm. It's a nice change from the typical Geek rants about Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and Joss Whedon. Although, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and Joss Whedon are all things this site is supposed to be about, right? I'm not sure. But, just to play Devil's advocate here, let me point out that the editors of this site have been blasted for coverng things such as :wolverine (Wolverine, goddammit!)being in a movie musical. OK, fine. Personally, I see some tangential Coolness with that story. But can someone tell me what in the living fuck is "Cool News" about this goddamned movie? Cage didn't play Superman, and Ghost Rider isn't out yet, so What gives? Maria Bello was in "History of Violence" is THAT the connection to cool news? I'm just asking...
Let me conclude by saying that I watched the planes hit the towers, live, from my office at 1 Chase Plaza, and that my life is forever changed by what happened. Being snarky is the only way I know how to get through rantings like this talk back. Also, people have been selling "I survived 9/11" T-shirts, and flags and ribbons since the morning of 9/12/01, so if bigger fish are now starting to cash in, who really gives a fuck?
Panthermatt -
Just out of curiosity, which war-time
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Fuck you, Dylan.
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Anything like should this be giving its profits away. But really, i can't understand why anyone would want to see a movie like this so soon after the event. I'm not saying they shouldn't make them, just who'd want to see them. Is there really a market for people who want to relive 9/11? Personally I think all the specials I saw on History Channel was enough for me. You get the same effect just hearing people who were there talk about it instead of having a live-action remake.
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we ducked, told the womenfolk to lock the door and stay away from the windows, then we tossed our Starfleet pin on the table, pulled out our howitzer and went looking for the shooter and/or any would-be shooter, damn the regulations. No self-respecting person charged with the task of protecting their family would do any less.
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You obviously weren't asleep during Bush's first term, but it sure seemed like the rest of the body politic was. I also get the sense that in light of the outright criminality of the current administration, the "ripping criticism" has been tepid at best. I ask you, in light of Abu Ghraib if not his clear incompetence in prosecuting the war in Iraq, why is Rumsfeld still in his position? My problem is the use of fear-mongering as means of defining public debate. Ill-thought-out military adventuring unfortunately doesn't communicate strength and fortitude, quite the opposite in fact. Mind you, I'm no peace-nik, in fact, my views of what to do about terrorism lie pretty far to the right of the field. I guess I'm just saying that stupid action is worse than doing nothing at all.
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No doubt. Chris Matthews mopped the floor with her a few days ago. But reserve some of that vitriol for folks like Randi Rhodes too...equally shrill. No one like her on the kooky-left gets called out for THEIR mean spiritedness and hatred. Instead they paint themselves as victims under attack for their courageous beliefs and mad skillz at speaking the truth to the power of the MAN.
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Hey, I appreciate people having a good moral conscious about where their money goes when they shell it out, but then you might as well never give out your money again if you live in this country. That's the rub here folks; the age old question of art vs. commerce. If you knew that the money that was being made on this movie was going to the families and you would go, would you then be content to know that your ten bucks was truly helping a family whose member died in a unfortunate tragedy five years ago? I guess we can argue that the profits should go to the much-delayed memorial on ground zero, no? Who knows...but if it's "too soon" for you to see a 9/11 movie now, then it never will be.
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Aug 03, 2006 2:22:36 PM CDT
Is the inredibly depressing trailer music in the movie?
by charles grady
That overwrought funereal music is depressing beyond belief and gets stuck in my head for hours every time I see this upper of a trailer.
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As in Coldplay???
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It's too bad Matthews didn't mop the floor with Coulter when she accused Clinton of being gay and "joked" that Al Gore a "fag" on live TV. Say what you will about Chris Matthews, but I couldn't believe he let that slide uncontested. I'd like to think that if they were back in his studio instead of being outdoors surrounded by people he would have.
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That didn't insult the dead or mock the day, just a dumb joke that suggested I walked in to the wrong movie. I get pretty much lifetime banned for that but people saying 9/11 never happened are entitled to their freedom of speech? Maybe I'm insensitive, but we should be able to make jokes about these movies. These movies are not the events that happened that day, they are MOVIES. You are not watching a documentary or sitting in a history class, you are watching a MOVIE. It stars Nicholas Cage who looks kind of doofy in a mustache. I walk by the hole every day on my way in to work at 100 John Street. My family has worked in this area for the past 40 years, and I grew up in the 80's with my father having an office on Vesey right off of Broadway. 9/11 killed more than a few friends of mine and destroyed my father's business. I was at NYU at the time, we walked around handing out bottled water to the policemen on duty and put up construction workers at our dorm. I did my part. I guess you did yours when you banned a guy for making a joke about walking into the wrong movie. Way to pitch in, fat fucking hypocrites! Hey, how are you going to premier this one in Austin? Under a pile of rubble? Nah, it'll probably be a solemn event where you have OS or whoever you can get introduce the movie in heavy tones. I'm sure your respect for the movie will be very touching. Hey, here's an idea: How about you show respect for the day by raising money for the 9/11 Widow's fund? That might be more effective than banning people who make Brokeback jokes. Douchebags.
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Not a great film at all...
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I am faced with a bit of a problem. I am an educated American on the internet. Being on the internet, my previous statement is automatically held suspect. Mostly because rampant anonymity has made us all skeptics. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I believe that more happened on 9/11 than we have discovered, just as I believe that more happens at any given moment in any given place than we can be fully aware of. I would say that's a safe bet. I don't know what happened that day, but it annoys me that people are either cobbling theories together to support their own agenda, or telling other people to just ignore it and remember those who died and honor them. I was told the other week, when I started a discussion at a local store about this same subject, that there was an Afghanistan War vet in the room and that I should 'watch what I say'. This mentality is so repugnant to me. Reading through what's already been dumped around on this TB, I get the sense that only the most extreme fanatics obsessed with this subject have had their say, and I can't help but feel this way pretty much everywhere I go on the internet. I love the assumption that because someone is complaining about how things are on a message board they are obviously not actively doing anything to change things. Isn't sharing ideas in effect an attempt to make things different? If I have an ideology and attempt to convert you to it, aren't I doing what you just yelled at me for not doing? But thank you TB community. You have reminded me yet again why I shouldn't participate in this definitely fringe subculture of the internet. Have a wonderful day, and sorry for the lengthy post. I'm sure you'll scan right over it and call me a name or something.
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There
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Aug 03, 2006 3:38:52 PM CDT
I saw this and I had a problem with the scene where...
by ricky henderson
Mel Gibson rides the wreckage of tower two down from the 100th floor, survives, then immediately declares war on Israel. That seemd a little over the top.
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What was so repugnant - that someone wanted you to exercise a little discretion? Unfortunately, most of the people who tend to express their doubts about the
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Proves the Pentagon tried to cover up what happend on 911? So take that Government apologists. If there's no conspiracy then why did they lie. You read the transcripts from the Norads tapes here.
http://tinyurl.com/rc2dn -
just like a flood of UFO's sightings. Most can be explained. Some are down right ridiculous. But there are some that make you scratch your head. The only thing that brought down those towers other than a twisted fuck religion, was the planes. Was there insider info prior to the event? I believe so. That's how our gov operates. Shady as the rest of them. Greed, power and religion are the most destructive forces mankind has set fourth. This why we are still a Typezero civilization. Stupid fuck humans.
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Look, we've gotten off topic. You're obviously not a schmuck and I don't disagree with some of your general gist, I do disagree with your particulars. As I said before, I sit pretty far to the right on the issue of terrorism, to the point of offending many of my well-meaning but fuzzy-headed friends. My original point was to call on the 9/11 conspiracy fart-catchers to put up or shut-up. Mainly to shut-up. It seems to have worked too. I think we can agree that they should do exactly that.
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Bin Laden, or the Oil industry now that we've colonized Iraq and Afghanistan? The Oil companies posted RECORD profits after 911. The coincidences are astounding. Stop divorcing yourself from reality. If you think the Government is incappable of commiting atrocities against it's own citizens, read the operation northwoods document. That apologists like you said didn't exist before it was declassified.
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I think of anyone in the modern army as someone who is doing a job that they are being paid for and that they believe in. What was repugnant to me was that the owner of the local shop was not the person requesting I censor myself, but one of the patrons, and against my better judgment (and in retrospect I feel I should have challenged this individual), I acquiesced. I am sorry if I failed to elaborate on the setting for this discussion, but it was with a group of friends in a shop owned by a friend. If this individual 'fought for my freedom' (pardon the quotes, I do that to phrases for which I believe we as a people have forgotten the real meaning), then he should applaud my willingness to exercise this freedom. I have little patience for people who express an idea and then neglect to quibble over the details, since that's the best part. What I got out of watching Loose Change a few months back was not that the answers we have been given were necessarily wrong, but that perhaps we haven't been asking the right questions (or even enough questions). Thank you, too, for the civilized response to my earlier post.
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What was your screen name before you got banned? Is it still posted? Just curious. Of all the shit that flies around these talkbacks, I'd be interested to see what DOES constitute banning. I'd ask you to repeat the joke, but I wouldn't want you to get banned again. :)
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ganymede2010, they covered it up because it made them look incompetent.
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Operation Northwoods, huh? Listening to Alex Jones are we? Not much oil in ol' Afghanistan and I do believe Iraq is pumping less oil than when we went in there. Now, does our government lie? You betcha! Does that mean 9/11 was an inside job? Nope. If anything, the Pentagon lied because it didn't want the country to know that it really didn't have a handle on anything that day. The Vanity Fair article on the NORAD tapes is fascinating and I encourage everyone to read it. The tapes definitely show people trying to do their jobs under incredible circumstances.
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Is worst then incompentence. You don't commit a crime of treason to cover-up crime you allegedly didn't commit. So what you're saying is, they did nothing wrong on 911 but perjured themselves before congress, commiting an act of treason to so they wouldn't look incompentent? Gee whiz, no wonder these crooked politicians keep getting elected. Because apologists like you will never hold them accountable for anything.
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Read my previous posts on this talkback. I'm hardly an apologist for anyone. Read before you type...nitwit.
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Are you saying the Operation Northwoods document doesn't exist?
And since you read the Norad transcripts. Explain why the Langley Airforce Base sent their 2 fighter Jets out to sea, in the oppossite direction that Norad wanted them to go. When they KNEW our country was under attack? Please explain. -
People have perjured themselves for less..."I did not have sexual realtions with that woman."
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I read your post. You said the 911 truth movement should shut up. You shut people up by presenting inrefutable evidence. Not by using words like "just shut up". Here's an example of inrefutable evidence. There was NO Arabs recoverd form the Pentagon Crash site. Here's a link to official autopsy report. http://tinyurl.com/gbuxk
Please explain whey there's zero corrabitve evidence that proves Arabs crashed planes into the Pentagon. -
Commiting treason against ones country is not comparable to a lie that ALL men have told atleast once in their lifetime.
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nothing. too. shady. there. nope. nope.
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Hmmmm, someone comes up with a contingency plan 40+ years ago to fake an international incident with fake US college students. The plan is REJECTED and the author reassigned. Naturally the CT nuts think that this is PROOF that the US government is capable of committing real atrocities against its own citizens when any rational person would tend to conclude the EXACT opposite. You just can't make this stuff up.
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No, the Northwoods documents do exist. But I find it slightly amusing that folks like Alex Jones use them as "proof positive" of a 9/11 conspiracy. As for the interceptors scrambled out of Langley Air Force Base, I assume you are talking about this: "Approval for any such order would have to come from the commander in chief. Just after 9:30, however, the president was in his motorcade preparing to leave the Emma Booker Elementary School, in Sarasota, for the airport and the safety of Air Force One. The 9/11 commission determined that the president had not been aware of any further possible hijackings and was not yet in touch with the Pentagon.
But a clear shootdown order wouldn't have made a difference. The Langley fighters were headed the wrong way -
Wasn't demoted. He was promoted to NATO Allied Supreme Commander. So stop embarrasing yourself by trying to spread dis-information. You loose... CHECK MATE!
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Ok, I'll stop saying he was demoted...oh, wait a minute. I didn't. Doh!
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How many Arabs can you fit in a missile?
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these discussions (which is what they should be) would be much more pleasant if people didnt say things like CHECKMATE! and YOU LOSE no to mention the back and forth YOURE A DOUCHBAG, YOURE A FUCKWIT and SHUT THE FUCK UP. Dont you agree?
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Are you twelve? I did not say "shut up" as such. Which you'd know if you read my original post in this talkback. It's a long post and has lots of big words in it. Also, you should really be careful about believing anything you read on the internet. "Irrefutable Evidence" indeed, if any such thing exists on this Earth it's certainly not on some nut-job's 9/11 conspiracy website.
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Dylan Avery apparently doesn't have time to do any research...just throws alot of questions against the wall to see what sticks. Photos of Pentagon bodies charbroiled...WTC bldg 7 pix with a huge chunk missing from falling debris...all readily available to the public. I guess he's just a busy guy. And a smug punk asshole by the sound of his voice and flippant tone. Facts are stubborn little things aren't they? Recommended viewing for Brokedick,Zfisk etc. Eh, why bother.
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someone should invoke Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) and get this over with.
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Not word for word, but pretty close. It was on the United 93 talkback, instantly deleted. "I saw United 93 today. A little too much gay cowboy sex for my tastes, but hey, whatever." No mocking of 9/11, no expression of glee. Just another dumb Brokeback Mountain joke at the end of what had been a long string of them. And not only that, I sat back and took my punishment. I wrote them a letter saying I thought it was unjustified but I'd abide by their decision. Then they let every conspiracy theory nutcase fill the board up with crap. What a bunch of dicks.
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so now the aicnzionazis are bringing their wretched holocaust lingo into 9/11, because the venerable holocaust template works..if they ever took a holiday from their "sleepless nights/ discrediting/smearing tour",they'd see the real nutcases are the ones pushing the official story...
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In the absence of facts, one must demean his political counterpart, because there
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dogandapeman2, but you got a point. these people are just assholes who are pushing negative propaganda for conspiracies against the actual facts of 9/11, and this site's runners let them freely do it. but one dumb joke is made and you got banned. fat hypocrites.
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"It will take a few years for the scars from seeing WTC to fully heal, and until then, please refrain from reviewing the movie and bringing those memories back to the surface." This is a synopsis of the dumbest of the dumb comments made about this movie. It perfectly summarizes how idiotic people can be. "I don't want you to see this movie because I don't want to see it." That's what you're really saying. Well, you know what? Don't see it. Stay away. Stay far away. I will be glad you're not at the theater. In fact, I respond this simply to all of you. Rent FERNGULLY, sit at home, and pretend there's never been any pain in the world. God knows no one should ever relive anything serious, anything traumatic, anything negative even if it's their perogative to do so. You people amaze me. How about this - you live in your insulated, ridiculous little bubble and I'll worry about what I think is appropriate and what isn't? Deal? As for the conspiracy theorists and Stone haters...I mean...if we ignore them, they go away. I'm not saying that everyone who dislikes Stone should be ignored - I can understand why people hate his style of film and loathe him as a person - but most of you are visionless fuckwits who are just super-antsy to trash a film before you even see it. Let's pretend that the people at the studio are motivated only by cash and greed and those are their only motivations for producing this film. Even if that's the case...what if Stone ISN'T concerned only with profit? What if, God forbid, he or any other filmmaker actually WANTS to tell a story based on this day because it's something they believe in? Is that REALLY so fucking hard to believe? There's realistic, and then there's cynical - both of which I get - and then there's outright douchebaggery. I wish to Satan's Balls that you unbelievable losers would find something else to worry about. I wouldn't really care except for the fact that most of you are going to end up as the guy outside 7-11 who offers to show me his grundle for $5 if you don't do something meaningful with your lives.
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Can you please provide us the stats for the number of victims whose remains have not yet been identified? Thanks.
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No one knows what the hell you're talking about and, frankly, no one cares. (Well, maybe brokebackcowboy does...) But your ways are tired and meaningless. You contribute nothing to a discussion but hatred, homophobia, and anti-semitism.
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Or maybe some evidence of all of the Joooos getting the day off work at the WTC that day...or maybe some evidence of the meticulous planting of timed explosives at specific points in the towers (other than the opinion that "it didn't look right" when they fell)...or how about a scintilla of information that proves the planes were flown by "remote control" into the towers...or pick one. We've heard 'em all. You can't prove a negative.
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Evil conspirator No.1: Hey, did you remember to stuff Arab DNA into the missile? Evil conspirator No.2: I didn
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SOMEBODY GET AN AVENGER MOVIE GOING! Michael Shannon (who plays that main Marine) would be perfect as Captain America. Holy shit!
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seeing as that he's the one that's rumored that's trying to make room in his schedule to direct a Cap movie in a couple of years.
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You may not be qualified to judge Rumsfeld but the rest of the sentient world can. Let's see, Al-Qaeda was supposed to be the target after 9/11, but where did this brilliant military strategist want to invade? Iraq? It wasn't until Intel and the military told him, no, stupid, Osama is in Afghanistan, that he sent some troops there. Threw off his whole pre-conceived (oohhh, I'm about to say the N word ... ) NeoCon plan of regime change in Iraq. But no matter. After taking care of business in Afghanistan he'll take care of his NeoCon buddies. So now after over 4 years in Iraq, and thousands of soldiers dead, tens of thousands maimed, it's about to go into civil war mode. I hope you watched the Senate Armed Services hearing this morning? The one Rummy said he was too busy to attend, but like a spoiled brat who got caught trying to play hooky, he was pulled in at the last minute? Did you see how General Abizaid was looking next to Rummy? Uncomfortable ... a look that says "I'm about to give you a shitload of bad news, and this is the guy who shat it". Looks like that Rumsfeld Doctrine really "may not have been the best plan for Iraq". Too bad hindsight can't bring back the dead huh? That sucks. But the good thing about us being in Iraq is this: Israel couldn't bomb the fuck out of Lebanon right this moment if the US weren't there. Hey, I didn't say that, the PNACers did. So Rummy did deliver the goods. All courtesy, of course (and to stay on topic), of 9/11. Way to go to support the troops, Cantankerous. Keep propping up the pretzel-tongued lunatic who gets them in ever deeper shit by the day. And in armorless vehicles, too.
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You in here? Or are you picketing Mel Gibson's home?
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is in Lebanon. Deja Vu, anyone? This show has more boogeymen than a Wes Craven script.
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but WTF ever happened to all those Homeland Security Red Alerts or whatever they were called. I mean, the country went into high alert if an unmarked Samsonite was sitting in an airport. All that miraculously stopped as soon as Bush got elected in 2004. Not a damned peep since. Hmmm... they wouldn't use terrorism scare tactics for political gain, would they?
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You folks make me sick.
You must have an avg. IQ of 70, and probably never finished High School.
Every single major newspaper and investigative correspondent in the friggin' Country has been over, under, side-ways, down checking out 9/11 and looking for possible evidence of a National cover-up. It would win them the Pulitzer, and give them more fame the Woodward and Bernstein. Results...BUPKUS !!
The events that transpired are proven to be consistent with the Public record, and in support of all the evidence and findings.
How many hundreds, or thousands of people would have had to be involved to pull off the "Conspiracy" of the sorts put forth by the tin foil hat crowd. Yet no one has spilled the beans. You know why? There are no beans to spill. Crazy motherfuckin Muslim extremists kidnapped 4 planes loaded with fuel (all prepared for a long distance, west coast flight).
The Twin Towers were brought down by the massive fire and heat dramatically weaking the main load bearing truss beams (including the now understood poorly engineered truss
The reason the core failed first in the North Tower can be explained by the way it was hit. The 767 had smashed through the outer wall and impacted the inner core directly, damaging or destroying essential load-bearing columns and their fire protection.
From Nova's "Why The Towers Fell":
In this scenario, the fire would have softened the already weakened core columns to the point where they could no longer carry weight from above. When these columns finally failed they immediately precipitated another progressive collapse.
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give us a cool ultimate avengers. Having CAP wake up in our day and time with that go get em WWII mindset would be make sense. You cant have a guy running around in a costume like that today unless its a metaphor.
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Fire Rumsfeld now. And Gibson I couldn't give a shit less about. Although, I do feel bad for his 35 kids or whatever...
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Thanks for setting the record straight. Now the country can sleep better because you cleared up every last inconsistency of every last detail of every attack that occurred on 9/11. Maybe you should win that Pulitzer. Since you have all the answers, please cite the evidence of the destroyed wing sections of the plane that hit the Pentagon. And BTW, my tin-foil hat was store-bought, not homemade. It's a nice one.
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You think so, Gaius? But according to the wise Cantankerous, Rumsfeld is an asset. One who fucked over the American military forces, but an asset nonetheless. Just not to America. And I don't know how many kids Mel's got, but anyone who's got a father who can gross $700 Million on one movie, has got be living some sweet life. How can you feel bad for that?
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Do you see me backing Cantankerous's play? -- How could I feel bad for Mel's kids? Ummm, I don't know...having an alcoholic for a father who's recent DUI incident has turned into some kind of obsessive morality play being viewed across the entire planet. I'd say that's pretty embarrassing.
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Yeah, I agree - the DUI is inexcusable. The man is rich, doesn't he have a chauffeur? I know he'll do well in rehab. Apocalypto will rock.
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Sorry my comrade. It's not my job to prove your case for you. Unlike you, I've provided independently verifiable evidence that NO Arabs were on flight 77. Until you can provide evidence to back up your claim, your accuasations will remain groundless and unfounded.
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He was JCS chairman, that is the height of power in the Pentagon. Being packed off to Europe was a demotion, even though it came with the impressive sounding title of "supreme allied commander". Granted being exiled to Europe is far preferable to being sent to Alaska, but the effect of the same. They sent him out of washington across the atlantic to engage in bull sessions and tea parties with foreign minor armies. He may have been declared Supreme Lord God Emporer of the Moon and launched into space on the Apollo rocket. If you don't believe me consider if Rumsfeld was "promoted" from his current post to Bolton's job as US envoy to the UN. That wouldn't really be a promotion even if the white house called it a promotion.
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I'm sorry, but I've never mentioned anything about Jews being for warned about 911. If you botherd to read the governments forensic report about the WTC. You'll find that the steele that the N.I.S.T examined showed that it wasn't exposed to heat greater then 250 degrees. Which is consistent with an oxygen straved fire. And the Black smoke that we all witnessed is a direct result of the fire being strarved for oxygen. If you would like to read the goverments report, here's the link. http://tinyurl.com/hgyse Because I know you didn't bother to read any of the facts before you started to spin the truth the aristocratic regime that has hi-jacked our country. And I don't mean to rub it in, but according to the FBI's website, he's not EVEN WANTED FOR THE 911 attacks! Here's the link. I'm done roasting you for the night. http://tinyurl.com/syn8m CHECK MATE!
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I'm sorry, but I've never mentioned anything about Jews being for warned about 911. If you botherd to read the governments forensic report about the WTC. You'll find that the steele that the N.I.S.T examined showed that it wasn't exposed to heat greater then 250 degrees. Which is consistent with an oxygen straved fire. And the Black smoke that we all witnessed is a direct result of the fire being strarved for oxygen. If you would like to read the goverments report, here's the link. http://tinyurl.com/hgyse Because I know you didn't bother to read any of the facts before you started to spin the truth the aristocratic regime that has hi-jacked our country. And I don't mean to rub it in, but according to the FBI's website, he's not EVEN WANTED FOR THE 911 attacks! Here's the link. I'm done roasting you for the night. http://tinyurl.com/syn8m CHECK MATE!
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Every bomb dropped on a Lebanese child is paid for by your US tax dollars.
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the guy was being sarcastic you fuck-mook. he was using the language of the "too soon" anti 9/11 movie rhetoric in an equally ridiculous situation, namely reviews of the movies of 9/11. had you given the matter ten seconds of thought prior to posting, we could have avoided all this mess, and you could have saved yourself from making a complete ass of yourself. but as our lovely CT friends here illustrate, forethought, textual analysis, and non-duchebaggery are not prized qualities amongst talkbackers.
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1. Did I misunderstand his sarcasm? Yes. 2. Does it make any difference in my point? Not really. I'm not sure what "mess" you're referring to, seeing as you're the only person who has responded to my post, but my comments about the way people treat this movie and the people who want to see it and want to see movies like this made stand. And I'd have to say that even if the teeth in my response were misdirected (sorry, Eaglet), my post was far mroe on-topic than most of the crap floating around here and is still a valid point. And what are you, the kid's fucking mother? Get a better job. I don't want to even ask what a "fuck-mook" is, but you're clearly a racist, you racist.
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The reason zfisk/homewrecker is so allergic to the word "denier" is because he has linked to the website of well-known neo-nazi holocaust denier (Michael A. Hoffman II) on his blog. zfisk/homewrecker has proven himself time and again to be nothing but a paranoid, psychopathic, racist, anti-semitic homophobe on these boards. The guy is a fruitcake of the highest order.
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...he was once banned for nazi propaganda, stating among other things that "the wrong side" won WWII and lauding Hitler. Scratch on the surface of these people pretending to care about the death of children and what do you find -- people who themselves would love to murder children of their own choosing.
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DoctorWho?:(Spits beverage all over monitor) Holy shit! That is funny! Maybe they could have baked some cookies while they were up there eh Ganymede? TIME FOR SCIENCE CLASS BOZO. FROM NOVA(PBS): "Less than a quarter of an hour after it had been hit, all the conditions for the collapse of the South Tower were in place. The huge weight of the top third of the building was bearing down on the weakening structure. Analysis of the steel from this part of the building reveals that the fire here reached 2000 DEGREES FARENHEIT, a temperature that would definitely have caused the steel to buckle.
Inside, the fire was weakening the floor trusses. Some were starting to soften and sag, pulling on their bolted connections to the columns.
CHARLES THORNTON(structural engineer): "They had two 5/8-inch bolts at one end of the truss and two 3/4-inch bolts at the other end, which is perfectly fine to take vertical load and perfectly fine to take shear loads, but once the floor elements start to sag during a fire...okay...they start exerting tension forces because it becomes a catenary, like a clothesline, and those two little bolts just couldn't handle it.
NARRATOR: The trusses were essential for holding the building together. If too many failed the building would collapse.
LESLIE ROBERTSON(engineer,WTC): I think the structures were stalwart, but they were not that stalwart. There was no fire suppression system that could even begin to deal with that event. Nothing. Nothing.>>>>Now run along and make me a sandwich.
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the war of attrition has begun in earnest.
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I kept out of this last time (mostly) but really, man. This is paranoid mince of the highest order. Are you honestly trying to convince the world (well the TB) that 9/11 was deliberate so that America could invade Iraq- thereby taking care of Bush's Neo-con buddies? It sounds like bullshit to me.
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I still don't really get that title. Anyway shut up I really hate morons who like to generalize important real events happening in the real world, on a movie web site. Things are a little more complicated than just blurting out "US pays for bombs" and blah blah blah. Wow are you blaming Americans for that? Well guess what I pay taxes but I certainly don't choose where that money goes. So if Americans deserve more attacks like 9/11 just because we pay taxes... Well then it's okay to say that Arabs in general deserve worse then what they are receieving now just because a handfull of Arab guys blew up the towers right? Seriously please think logically about what you're saying, blaming huge groups of people for things that are not in their control.
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please take 5 mins to listen to this. it is very relevent -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlEqtaWpKEU --
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ganymede2010 links to a CNN VICTIMS list, calls it an autopsy report and wonders why the Arab terrorists aren
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im not saying i believe in this conspiracy stuff... i sat there and watched events that morning just like the rest of you, and nothing should ever be more important than remebering the people who died that day. yes there is a lot of unanswered questions, and the sheer ammount of evidence (if you can call it that) exhibited in Loose Change is worryingly big. if anything in that film is true then a lot of people have been lied to. people should just not take what they learnt from a film as fact. film is a medium driven by opinion, you need to be careful what you believe, and if you're just the victim of an overly imaginative director. for all the 'facts' you are told, there could be 100 more that hes keeping from you, just to make you think a certain way.
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The official story of 9/11 has a bullshit rating that's astronomically higher, but that won't deter anyone who already has made up their mind to accept it. Despite all the flaws in the official explanations, and all the facts indicating that the Bush Administration had prior knowledge of a possible attack on US soil and did nothing - willfully - to investigate or prevent it, people will still tow the line on the official story. The NeoCons were wrong about a lot of things, but one thing they got right was to count on complacent people who will believe anything they hear, as long as they hear it from the White House podium.
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Hey guys, how's that reamer working out? Does it have a good warranty? Do you think the Mel Gibson story will outlast the Israel-Lebanon war? I think it's got a good chance. We need the distraction. And DocWho ... 'war of attrition'? Good to see middle age virginity doesn't impair one's geek sensibilities.
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Living in Britain, I have an entirely different (and less well informed) view of 9/11 than most people that post here. Granted, there are gaps in the official story, but really, are you honestly telling me that the Neo-cons would destroy a few American symbols and waste countless lives so they could go and invade Iraq- which by someone's (i've forgotten who and cannot be bothered to search) admission they were going to do anyway?
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Do the families of the firefighters and cops get a donation of proceeds from the movie? If they do, I'll buy a bunch of tickets. If not, I'll buy a few. But for a true, up-close portrait of the bravery of people who gave of themselves to others, I'll watch the Jules and Gedeon Naudet documentary.
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LP, the answer is yes, they would. I can understand why that's hard to comprehend, or even accept, but fanatics do the imcomprehensible like Beckham bends a ball (was that a good analogy? Heh). And those aren't gaps in the official story - they are deep, rotting cavities.
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The US policy on Iraq since Clinton was regime change, so naturally a plan to do it militarily was on the table. 9/11 happens and Rumsfeld sends a few troops to Afghanistan and manages to accomplish, in just months, what the Soviet Union was never able to do after years of fighting and many casualties. Then we almost effortlessly remove Saddam from power and are currently dealing with an insurgency while managing to maintain a military death rate comparable to the accidental military death rate during the Clinton years. Iran is physically isolated from the rest of the Middle East so Israel can fight back against Hezbollah without it escalating into a multi-nation shooting match.
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Thanks for that link. The video was maybe overkill on the symbolic imagery, but the audio was pure gold.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Evans and http://tinyurl.com/kx59r
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For those of you who haven't had the highly dubious pleasure of reading what passes for debate when it comes to this guy (read the Harry review TB), here's what you can expect: 1) sexual insults aimed at members of your family, 2) links to extremist websites, 3) outrageous and erroneous blanket statements supported by said websites, 4) a flat refusal to acknowledge or debate points brought up which negate or at least bring into question the veracity of said blanket statements, 5) an unquenchable desire to talk about anal sex (although he doesn't know what "reaming" is), 6) further posting of identical blanket statements, similar extremist websites, further sexual insults. Rinse, repeat.
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I'll explain that statement a bit more since some cant seem to wrap their 'brains' around its full meaning. I support our troops, by not wanting to see them die for no good fucking reason, and/or outright lies. Apparently many in this country dont give a shit what they die for, as long as some company in China makes little yellow ribbon magnets they can slap on the back of their Honda Pilot. I'm all for military action if the situation makes it unavoidable. The current situation was avoidable. "Supporting the mission"? What fucking mission? First it was WMD's, then it was removing a madman and preventing things like the mass graves and rape rooms, (Kind of ironic now as dozens of Iraqis are kidnapped, butchered, and blown apart on a DAILY basis now. Not to mention our policies on 'interrogation'), then the reason was spreading Democracy. I guess I have my pick of which mission to suppoort at any one time. Right now the mission seems to be something like 'Operation just keep flogging that dead horse, and keep smiling!' Democrats, except John Murtha and a few others, share 50% of the blame for this shitstorm. They continue to tow the line and keep their mouths shut at the cost of young American lives. Unforgiveable. I used to call myself a Democrat, now I dont really give a shit. Both parties are so disgraceful its sickening. And Anne Coulter is still a fucking cuntrag. She is the rag that wipes the bloody period mucus from a whores sloppy diseased cunt.
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Of course I'm more right than I realize. Aren't we all? And leave it to you to drag in Clinton, as is always done when an excuse is needed. Clinton's policy of regime change was isolation, sanctions, and containment. It worked, right, because as we do know, factually, that Saddam had no WMDs. Only sand and oil. As for your rosy assessment of the insurgency, you're so delusional you ought to apply for the position of Undersecretary of Defense. Rumsfeld needs your rose-colored lenses - his military commanders aren't too optimistic about our prospects at this point. Tens of soldiers being killed every week compares to the accidental military death rate of the Clinton years? What else to expect from someone who doesn't feel qualified to judge the grand Rumsfeld. But don't forget the maimed soldiers too - does having no limbs and brain damage figure into your casualty statistics? Because technically, they are casualties. At least you're on point about the US being in Iraq to aid Israel's position. Now let's get a national consensus from the American people to decide if we should continue that course.
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No, it wasn't, unless you meant that 9/11 is wholly explicable without resorting to stupid conspiracy theories.
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I'm pretty sure everyone who reads Quint's WTC TB has seen Harry's. This is AICN, not Yahoo! And thanks for the Idiot's Guide to Brokebackcowboy summary. This from someone who looks up the word "reaming" ... in Webster's Dictionary.
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OMG! The administration suspected that there was the POSSIBILITY of a terrorist attack SOMEWHERE on US soil and they didn
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The looking up was, as you know, for your benefit. You presented your ignorance of the term in post after post ridiculing DoctorWho who, in fact, actually DID know what it meant. You can keep trying to spin that (along with everything else) as much as you like, but the fact remains that you pretty much reamed yourself with your own ignorance -- a true case of auto-ownage, if you will.
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"I personally didn't realize how empty the new skyline looks without the towers until I saw the opening of this film." ---------------- Somebody here apparently never saw the opening titles sequence of THE 25TH HOUR, so say such a thing!
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Like I've told you before, your pathological preoccupation with "ownage" is severely affecting your already limited reasoning capacities. It's only 10AM and already you've typed the word "own" 12 times. Rinse, repeat?
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I'm praying for cocolopez to come into this TB and DESTROY it. ;)
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I know what you mean. You get a far lower grade type of troll nowadays than the sheer lunacy of cocolopez. I just hope that he brings us a link to his "music". Before fetching my fucking big mac, obviously. I like something to eat whilst laughing at his demo.
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"reasoning capacities"? This from the fellow who refused to address one single point I (and others) brought up to disprove his asinine allegations and discredit his websites. You're just a braying, anally fixated hypocrite without any substance whatsoever.
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cocolopez is a genuine saint compared to the Unholy Trio of AICN (brokedick, zfisk/homewrecker & GingerTwit). Hell, I'd even promise to buy every Marvin Gardens CD available if he came back. He may have been crazier than a shithouse rat, but at least he wasn't truly malignant like the Trio.
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what, both of them?
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Bringing up Clinton is not an excuse, it
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Heh, I should have added: "for each one of my family members".
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Fair enough, I suppose. But I've not put forth a "case" requiring links. I'm asking you to address you theory from all possible points; including those you may not agree with or ever thought about before. And you never responded to my question regarding the fighter jets.
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Unholy Trio of AICN? Is that like the Axis of Evil? Or the Eastern Conference? Dear Lord, you have got to regroup.
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an ashtray each? I'm off to find his site, because I am bored at work and Brokeback's tin hat is quelling the voices that usually force his dementia into print and I need a laugh.
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off to coco. The cunt has only managed to go and get himself signed. I shit you not, check this out: http://www.getunderground.com/underground/music/gallery.cfm?Album_ID=169. I hope Jefferson Airplane sue him so hard that he has to give handjobs to pay for the studio costs.
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Are you really saying that a poll by a local newspaper with 1,720 online respondents is the equivalent of a national consensus of the American people? Did you previously work in Enron's accounting department? And I'm sure those soldiers who are still alive and on their third extended tour will be glad to hear your comparing of current military casualty statistics with that of peacetime.
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Sorry to disappoint but I'm off to work. And like a good worker bee, I don't post when I'm getting compensated for my time. And my tin-foil hat does a very good job - better than the lead cap that stunts your brainwaves. See you tomorrow, laddies.
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...and in other news, satan puts on a scarf, a duffel coat and mittens.
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bealzebub may be ski-ing to work- and the sky has fallen, but I shit you not coco is signed. Proof that there clearly is no god. And Brokeback- Do fuck off.
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More or less, I've come to the same conclusion myself. I no longer have the energy to engage the same arguments time and again when I've already done so in other TBs long ago. I might chime in if I see a blatant grenade thrower say something so kneejerk that it demands a reply. Otherwise, I'm content with nothing more than hounding zfisk/homewrecker to the End of Days. Do you hear me, zfisk?! I'm coming for ya and Hell is coming with me!!!
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Did you ever think that maybe Harry & Co. don't like it when TBers are called Hezbollah supporters and wacko tin-foil hatters, and just let people talk it out? I mean, you don't have any problem calling people names, but you cry and complain when you can't take it. Newsflash, Yackbacker. You don't even like Harry. You get indignant everytime he posts a review. So what are you complaining about? There are tons of TBs here, and not everyone reads every one of them. I don't read the Aquateen Hunger Force TB, but should they stop posting because of that? No. AICN is like TV. There are a couple of hundred channels to choose from, and new ones everyday. Therefore it would be wise of you to stop crying and change the channel. Oh, late for work - capitalism calls. See ya, or not.
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...in order to convert people who are either too narrow-minded to think rationally, too stupid to discern the obvious or deliberate liars. However, if there is even the slightest chance that I can prevent at least one more undecided person from buying into the crypto-extremist horseshit they're peddling, then it's worth it.
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Can someone link a picture of the plane wreckage at the Pentagon for me? Showing some plane bits, like a wing, seats, tail section....anything? That I would love to see. At least the Government released that new video showing the Pentagon being hit by.....a blur. Not a plane. Wow the Pentagon has one camera pointing outwards. There are more camera's at my local 7-11 than that. Before you guys start bashing the people that actually believe that this Government was involved in this attack on the US please go to these links, read them, and then return here. Try to keep an open mind if possible. I also didn't think it was plausible that the US had anything to do with 9/11 except incompetence. But the evidence proves otherwise. Check these pages out:
http://letsroll911.org/
The next link is a video of a MIT engineer showing how the fire/impact did not bring down WTC 1 and 2:
http://www.freedomisforeverybody.org/MITEngineer.php
Watch the video. The guy isn't a nutjob. He methodically details what transpired that day in scientific terms, not political ones. He is very dull, but detailed in his presentation. Not everyone who thinks more happened on that horrible day than we were told is a wacko. I find it odd that people can believe a bunch of Saudis with box cutters can hijack 4 planes at the same time and yet cannot believe that there is more to it than that. A poster made a good point as far as the Orange alerts, Red alerts, Yellow alerts....Manipulation of the finest order by the Government to keep the country in a state of fear. Look at the legislation that has passed because of it. Thousands dead in Iraq, many more maimed for what exactly? WMD over there correct? Nope. What about Osma bin Laden?? Who cares about him? He didn't even do this attack, that's why they are not going after him. 9 Permanent military bases now in Iraq? Doesn't sound like we are pulling out anytime soon. I also agree that people can start to get fanatical on both sides of the argument. The lack of evidence on 9/11 is as compelling as the evidence that was collected. Lack of evidence:
Pentagon:
No plane wreckage at the Pentagon.
No video footage clearly showing a plane hitting the Pentagon.
A small diameter hole in the Pentagon clearly way to small to be from a plane impact.
No need to remove the turf by Hazmat teams due to the lack of Aviation fuel spillage.
Not enough fire damage to the building if a plane actually crashed into it.
Plane somehow managed to "crash" into the part of the building under repair, while being 10 feet of the ground when it hit.....amazing flying by the Red Baron Saudi with his trusty boxcutter.
WTC 7:
Somehow this building collapsed without being hit...by anything??? That's a 47 floor building taht just falls down?
PBS documentary shows the owner, Larry Silverstein saying they "pulled the building"...meaning they brought it down on purpose:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/011904wtc7.html
Why? How? Within hours there are enough carefully placed detonator charges in place to demolish this building! It usually takes weeks or months to plan such a demolition.
Anyway watch the videos before being so quick to dismiss things outright. -
the Transformers movie...what do ya think?
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is never as compelling as actual evidence. For example, there is a complete lack of evidence pointing to the fact that there aren't millions of invisible hedgehogs flying in the stratosphere- Do you want to say that "oh well as there is a lack of evidence- then the fucking spiky bastards must be up there" because I wouldn't. There are hundreds of similar examples, which is why almost every legal system is based on actual evidence. Not a perceived lack of it. See?
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Go out and buy Marvin's CD- It's really good. Honest. Would I lie. Only kidding- apoligies YB and MNG I hadn't refreshed the page and so missed everything after Midgard's post. AM off to argue with Rebeck about why I am a nasty little elitist parochial fucker that is showing a serious lack of gratitude to America, and balancing that with the enormous chip on my shoulder.
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That review is crazy! it can't come close to what that day was like but forget that. The dialogue was a joke! the scenes with the wives were a hallmark movie of the week! setting up shots like showing the bible open to REvelations were laffable! I went in worrying I wasn't going to be ready to see this movie but I thought it was just bad. Michael Pena is great in it but other than that this movie completley missed its mark. They should have made it about the rescue workers, NOT the family members! Show us the heroes! Show us the guys who risked their lives climbing down to get these guys! Show us more of how people from all over the country showed up to help!! Bad Dialogue, hokey scenes, bad acting, bad movie!! How can you make a dramatic movie and put in lines like 'the kids need you, NO I need you!' or 'God put this smoke here because we aren't ready to see it' come on!
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What makes you think we haven
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Certainly not someone like brokeback. He's both intellectually and morally bankrupt. I don't seek their agreement.I prefer clarity. When I or Docpazuzu,MNG etc. present simple,verifiable facts and dismantle the sheer conjecture that they spew...the stark contrast it provides is enough to illustrate the chasm that exists between serious thinkers, and people who are just plain silly.
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who claims to "seek facts", questions the "effectiveness" of a boxcutter or the OBVIOUS fate of WTC bldg 7...here's a nice little video featuring you so called "experts" on the matter. WARNING:GRAPHIC IMAGERY. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uFNBpjZCI4.I dare you
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Okay, I have taken your latest posts to heart. Let me first say, I've only posted at great length in 1 TB, and that is Harry's WTC TB. You won't find me posting any more than 2 or 3 comments in any other TB, except this one. As for 'commandeering' a TB, I think that's just the impression you got. How can 1 person commandeer a TB? The reality is that I posted maybe 3 to 4 comments in the morning or night, and I get 10 megs of insults from the likes of Anchorite, DocPaz and DocWho for the rest of the day or night. An unholy trifecta all their own. But that's over, apparently, because they've come here seeking assistance. In fact, I feel bad, because I may have taken it a bit far and reduced Anchorite and the 2 Docs to the dribbling loons you see now. What's the lesson? If you bait someone, you better make sure your line is strong enough to reel him in. I think Lost Prophet should heed that advice, because I've already sensed he's got a wild swing and a glass jaw. I don't know which other, or how many other, TBs you, Gaius, Anchorite, Lost Prophet, DocPaz, DocWho, cantakerous, and others have bitterly argued in, but this was my first foray into an extended back-and-forth. I can't say it hasn't been a joy and a pleasure taking some of your guys to task, but you're right, it's getting as old as the Mel Gibson affair. And now it's eating into my work schedule. I don't have the luxury of living free in my mother's basement like some people here, or cheat my employer like some unmentionable Brit, otherwise I'd love to post all day, everyday. So I'll let Anchorite and the 2 Docs cluck and bait for a while longer, because even they are entitled to the last remnants of their dignity. As for posting at other sites, I'd do the same if your guys move theirs to the Fox News boards. I do hope your friends take your advice and cut out the low-rent snide insults, because I won't be the first to fire the next shot, but like Anchorite's favorite homeland in the desert, I reserve the right to defend myself.
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This from the man who, among other things, says he wants to fuck the asses of the sisters of virtually everyone who opposes him. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.
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See what I mean by dribbling loons?
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You have to admit that the last 4 posts, when read in sequence, are pretty funny. Classic.
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9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon -
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General -
- By Dan Eggen -
Washington Post Staff Writer -
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; A03 -
Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.
Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings, these sources said.
In the end, the panel agreed to a compromise, turning over the allegations to the inspectors general for the Defense and Transportation departments, who can make criminal referrals if they believe they are warranted, officials said.
"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."
Although the commission's landmark report made it clear that the Defense Department's early versions of events on the day of the attacks were inaccurate, the revelation that it considered criminal referrals reveals how skeptically those reports were viewed by the panel and provides a glimpse of the tension between it and the Bush administration.
A Pentagon spokesman said yesterday that the inspector general's office will soon release a report addressing whether testimony delivered to the commission was "knowingly false." A separate report, delivered secretly to Congress in May 2005, blamed inaccuracies in part on problems with the way the Defense Department kept its records, according to a summary released yesterday.
A spokesman for the Transportation Department's inspector general's office said its investigation is complete and that a final report is being drafted. Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration, said she could not comment on the inspector general's inquiry.
In an article scheduled to be on newsstands today, Vanity Fair magazine reports aspects of the commission debate -- though it does not mention the possible criminal referrals -- and publishes lengthy excerpts from military audiotapes recorded on Sept. 11. ABC News aired excerpts last night.
For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances. Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington.
In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft -- American Airlines Flight 11 -- long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center.
Maj. Gen. Larry Arnold and Col. Alan Scott told the commission that NORAD had begun tracking United 93 at 9:16 a.m., but the commission determined that the airliner was not hijacked until 12 minutes later. The military was not aware of the flight until after it had crashed in Pennsylvania.
These and other discrepancies did not become clear until the commission, forced to use subpoenas, obtained audiotapes from the FAA and NORAD, officials said. The agencies' reluctance to release the tapes -- along with e-mails, erroneous public statements and other evidence -- led some of the panel's staff members and commissioners to believe that authorities sought to mislead the commission and the public about what happened on Sept. 11.
"I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described," John Farmer, a former New Jersey attorney general who led the staff inquiry into events on Sept. 11, said in a recent interview. "The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. . . . This is not spin. This is not true."
Arnold, who could not be reached for comment yesterday, told the commission in 2004 that he did not have all the information unearthed by the panel when he testified earlier. Other military officials also denied any intent to mislead the panel.
John F. Lehman, a Republican commission member and former Navy secretary, said in a recent interview that he believed the panel may have been lied to but that he did not believe the evidence was sufficient to support a criminal referral.
"My view of that was that whether it was willful or just the fog of stupid bureaucracy, I don't know," Lehman said. "But in the order of magnitude of things, going after bureaucrats because they misled the commission didn't seem to make sense to me." -
...in the morning or night" You posted no less than 16 times today Aug 4th alone. Docpaz:10. Myself:5(counting this one). I'll let this speak for your obvious disregard for truth or fact. Now, toss another one right over the middle of the plate.
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... that this talkbacker forum would descent into a battlefield between loonie conspiracy theorists Vs George Bush appologists. Meanwhile, i was attempting to coment that Oliver Stone's movie is not the first to show the impact of 9/11 on New York and ew yorkers, as THE 25TH HOUR did it previously, a movie i dearly love. and yes, i'll see this Oliver Stone movie, as i have a personal attatchment myself to this subject, as i visited the WTC in the sumemr of 2000, and i still find it hard to believe that massive impressive structure is not there. I didn't loss any people i know there, but fellow countrymen of mine also died there, though hardly in the numbers of the american and british casualties. but there's that small personal thing to me, the little fact i once was there, i visit it on vacations, and that i saw New York City from almsot the top floor, the tourist oungue, and it's an image i'll never forget. compared to all the people that lost friedns and relatives ther,e it might not be much, or much at all, but it's enough for me to feel and sympathise directly with all those that were affected first hand, if you know what i mean.
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... it's never too soon for a proper good movie to be made about any type of cathatrophe, natural or manmade- Nobody complained about books being writen "too soon" about the event, why should movies have another set of standards? As Mike Medavoy wrote in his autobiography, "Movies are the literature of the younger generations". I agree with that statment.
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I'll have you know that I loathe the moron currently residing in the White House. Don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone who stands up to scumsuckers like the Trio are simpleminded bushies, republicans or even conservatives.
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If brokedick is true to form, he will deflect your post by saying that you're a "homosexual zionazi" for even counting the posts.
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No excuse for the continious boring Conspiracy Theory Vs Bush Appologists silly conflict that i see occupying so much bandwidth in here. And i'm a sucker to politcal talk... but what about we trying to focus more on the film here, hem?
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Utterly predictable. It's kind of like playing chess with a 10 yr old, you can see 3 moves ahead of him. You stole my thunder earlier with your post on brokeback being shocked--SHOCKED, at the "low rent insults" bandied about here. But you failed to mention his fetish for "cockslapping" faces in addition to ass fucking our sisters. Such a pleasant fellow.
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he used the phrase "dribbing loon" in this thread-- which was used only once before on this site, by guess who? Lost Prophet-- one of Pazuzu's venerable aliases. oops! you fucked up again, doofus AICN moderator! homerecker is right-the moderator is playing both sides of the fence with these characters but fooling no one but himself! "brokebackcowboy.." a made up prop.. soon to join jayjew in the used setup/knockdown trashbin,from which old and new dummies and props for the zionist moderator's zionist clique will emerge. getting caught using the wrong lingo for one of your characters confirms once again--that the zionists are ruthless, unscrupulous liars, that they pervert and defecate on anything near debate with 'dummy debates with fake opponents..the 24/7 zionist moderator that dominates these AICN boards with his made-up tribe(Gaius pazuzu, anchorite docWho, lost prophet, etc.) is a fraud! DocbrokebackcowboyPAZUZU is out and debunked. CASE CLOSED!
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...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! See that, brokedick? Steal our jokes, vernacular and debating strategies and your own people start stabbing you in the back. Between GingerTwit's stupidity and zfisk/homewrecker's paranoid schizophrenia it's a wonder your arrogance is enough to keep the Trio together.
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No, really. You amuse the hell outta me! You are the Andy Kauffman of AICN.! Brilliant
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you got busted. by fabricating more characters having fake debates with them to better yourself.. this is a false flag in the true israeli style--victory through deception. you jews/israelis create a terrorist act and with your newspapers/networks, you frame others for it. using dummy props here on these boards is the same damn thing. you will never win by deception.
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You can't, because if a conspiracy gets proven right. All those conspiracy nuts lose money on book and documentary deals. IT'S ALL BULLSHIT!!! The real conspiracy is the conspiracy to keep conpiracies going so money can be made.
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I have looked into the virtual eyes of insanity and was met with the vacant stare of zfisk/homewrecker. -- Uhh...brokebackcowboy? You wanna field this one? Best of luck, dude. You're gonna need it...
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Keep the trio together! Don't let it die! Kind of like that old favorite TV show you wish never went off the air. Like Three's Company. You know it's stupid, yet you seem to tune in every week anyway
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...for the zfisk/homewrecker blog update!
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Hold my hand cause this could be it!!! This could be the ultimate AICN meltdown moment!
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Kind of like a shit-faced Mel Gibson. Someone needs to cut that boy off.
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...about zfisk/homewrecker is that he is so predictable. I first encountered him last year when he called me a "racist" for saying that Sean Combs was a musical hack. He would only zip into talkbacks as they were dropping off the front page, snipe a bit and then disappear -- never debate. At one point he latched onto this awesome conspiracy thing, and it was at that point that I realized that he might actually be truly insane. Through a bit of baiting (never unless he called me out first, though) he finally got up the nerve to go toe-to-toe in a TB. Since then, the laughter has never stopped. It may be politically incorrect, but damn if this particular bit of mental illness isn't the funniest thing I've ever seen.
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...if your buddy zfisk/homewrecker really does think you're just another one of the supposed gay Jew plant agent's alternative identities set up to be thrashed, it must mean that even he thinks that you're getting your ass handed to you in this ongoing debate, yes? "With friends like these" and all that...
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"...even he thinks you're getting your ass handed to you..." Yeah, that's rich. How does Brokedick the conspiracy nut feel about being implicated as part of a conspiracy?? I'll be anxious to hear his denial of said conpiracy,and then direct him to Homewrecker/Zfisks loony website...THEREFORE PROVING IT TO BE FACTUAL!
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no, i dont think that at all. what im thinking, is(A)All the characters who use the phrase "of said _______" are the same person and (B) guys who type "LOL" are gay.
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That was actually fuuny!
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...what you're saying is that everyone who has an above average grasp of the English language is the same person. Do you realize how illiterate and stupid that makes you sound? Just when I think I've run out of inventive ways to make you my bitch, you end up doing the work for me. Cheers.
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a so called enemy of you would NEVER want to "steal" your style or use your signature phrases. he would also never agree with you as "brokeback" has oddly done many times.. now that the damage is done to your best prop to date, you have to spin this and put up another smokescreen while trying to save face and buy time trying to cook up how your "brokeback" puppet is going to play this. either you work for Harry, or you are some zionist mystery man.
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I can never understand this. Who are the fools applauding? The projectionist? The theater owner? Is the film director or the actors in the house? Man, nothing pisses me off more at the movies when the dumb shits applaud.
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...when, exactly, did brokedick ever agree with me? I asked you this once before, but you never answered: if everyone who is against you is the same person, and everyone who AGREES with you is also the same person, how do you tell friend from foe? Maybe if you actually took the medication the doctor wanted you to, it would become a bit more clear to you.
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Some news:"Iran admitted for the first time on Friday that it did indeed supply long-range Zelzal-2 missiles to Hizbullah". Way to "stick it" to those rotten Jews eh?
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you cant beat me, so you have to say you are me? you will NEVER be me fucking loser.. go back to haifa and get bombed, you corrupt stinking pussy. do i create fake characters and scripted debates to win? hell no. you liars are gonna get it.
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"Mel Gibson is right
"I have to stand up and say that Mel Gibson is right, the Jews are the cause of all the wars right now. Well not all of them, but the important ones. If there was no state of Israel full of pesky Zionists bent on their own survival we would not have the problems with Islamists that we do today, right?
Well maybe we should look at that and see. Granted the Muslim world as a whole has a pretty bad attitude regarding Jews overall and Israel in particular. The anti-Semitic garbage preached in far too many mosques worldwide is shocking in it's virulence and incoherence. There just aren't enough Jews to do the damage attributed to them unless they really are superhuman, which says more about Muslim self-hatred than Jewish uber mensch-hood.The various schemes involving Jewish control of virtually all of the planet are stunning in their elevation of the Jew to master of puppets, without realizing how that degrades the rest of us. I know a bunch of Jews and some Israelis too, and you know what, they seem just like the rest of us. I guess if you are that superior you would adapt to dealing with lesser beings , such as myself, but really I couldn't see any difference at all.
Jew hatred is an ancient practice and has so many different rationales it is hard to pin it down. In the end it is mostly about the search for scapegoats to explain away failures and difficulties encountered in life. Enough Jews have been successful enough to cause weak-minded types to determine that this had to be due to some evil rather than hard work and diligence. It must be terribly galling to be any of Israel's neighbor states and see those horrible Jews prospering their asses off. And then when you fire up all the martial power of Allah to push them into the sea and liberate Palestine you get your asses handed to you.....regularly. I could see how this could chafe your cones after a while.
So it is the Jews fault that we are in Afghanistan, and Iraq and that Southern Lebanon is about to get a close up look at IDF ground troops. Their stubborn insistence on survival continues to be a thorn in the side of otherwise peaceful Islamists worldwide. The simple solution is for us to throw Israel under the bus and then enjoy the peace that would spontaneously erupt. It's not like the Islamists would take this as a sign of western weakness would they? I mean once Israel is gone they would just chill out and start knitting Religion of Peace (tm) tea cozies, they don't have any plans for.....oh I don't know a return to the Caliphate. Yeah the problem with this whole Jews are the problem thing is that while they are certainly #1 on the Islamist's hate list, guess who is #2? That's right, they don't call us the Great Satan for nothing."-- -
But maybe someone can help me out here. Is it me...or is zfisk taking BOTH sides of the issue?? I was gonna read it again, but frankly I just don't have the energy
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But WHAT THE FUCK??? Holy crap, this is beyond belief! zfisk/homewrecker, do you want to tell us who you are quoting there in your last post? Cause I know for a fact that 99% of your posts have anywhere from 27 to 36 grammatical errors. And you clearly did not write that last statement. -- And check out this money quote: "keep on lying.. that's what you jews do best." Can it get any clearer than that ladies and gentlemen of AICN??? zfisk/homewrecker - you are the lowest of the low. Go back to the tidal pool that spawned you.
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zfisk/homewrecker obviously didn't read that lengthy quote before he posted it. He saw the words "Jew" and "great satan" and that was it. Apparently sarcasm isn't one of fisky-poo's strengths. MNG, this might actually be the beginning of that meltdown you predicted. Classic!
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Man, you just make this stuff too easy. Poke you a bit with a spoon, insinuate sexual ambiguity, mental illness and a refusal to take your meds, and BOOM! Instant public self-immolation. You rock.
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It may very well be the beginning of the end. All things come to those who wait. Classic indeed. :)
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to hell. I won't be watching this disgusting attempt at playing on people's heart strings so easily without any thought provoking ideas (except 'that was a terrible day' and 'thanks for taking me painfully back to that day for 2 hours without any resolved feelings or new ideas on the events explored'.) We all know how brave the firefighters, police, paramedics, and people were that day. Our respect for them and love for all of them can never be taken away, or given any more meaning. We don't need to see some Oliver Stone money grab to recapture feelings from half a decade ago. We are still with those feelings today. SO A BIG FUCK YOU TO OLIVER STONE.
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ZFisk, the term "dribbling loon", although not commonly used, is well-known. Lost Prophet must have used it to describe his own, personal state of mind. I used it to describe a homosexual Zionist and two middle-aged virgins. In both cases, the most appropriate term was chosen. As for Jews, don't hate them all. Just the Zionists who put Israel before America, and mothers-in-law. Even Mel Gibson doesn't hate all Jews unless he's inebriated. Why don't you go on JDate and find a nice Jewish girl, you'll find out how great a Yenta can be to you. If I were still talking to DocPazuzu, I'd suggest he get on JDate, too. Because as much fun as AICN is, posting here 24 hours a day for 5 years straight will not cure middle-aged virginity and long-term brain rot.
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Right, twats. Once and for all. Brokeback, I used the term to describe Zfisk, as his mental health is clearly open to scrutiny. I like the fact that you took it off me. I am also pretty certain that I have not been rude to you. Yet. Just out of curiosity, as I know you will return to this thread, do you honestly not see anything loathsomely offensive in the term Zionazi. I will be surprised if you don't. Fisky- look at the times I post, things I am interested in, ways I spell and style of writing. If from all of this you cannot discern my nationality (I will give you a clue, it is not the same as all the other names on your insanity list), then.... Now, please do fuck off. The pair of you.
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.... not promoting it.
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You missed this TB boat a long time ago and you are clearly out of your depth.
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you are not familiar with the history of the man- look at his personal blog and it will become clear when you check out the links to neo-nazi sites. I only returned here to reread Brokeback's post, as I have been wondering if maybe he was being wronged, but on reflection. Next time, don't make generalisations- "Wild swing and a Glass Jaw"- I like the turn of phrase, by the way- I have stood in these flame-fests toe to toe with other characters and held my own. I usually don't go in for personal attacks, I back down if I am wrong, and try to reason with other TB-ers (see the flying hedgehog post above, and tell me if that was rude or unreasonble). And what you don't know about me, and my current job that allows me do this, also precludes making sweeping generalisations about defrauding my employer and calling me "unmentionable". Last post here- so feel free to flame me. You won't get a response here.
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LP. May I call you LP? Seeing as how you've now directed two posts to me asking me for an explanation, despite claiming to not respond, I'll still do you the favor of giving you one. As for telling me to "fuck off", perhaps if you rallied enough resources to buy AICN from Harry and made yourself a moderator, you may find yourself within your right to tell someone to fuck off. Until then, you're just being a bitch. Maybe you're unaware of how you were in fact the one to level the first insult - see your post re: "dementia". You should follow my original bit of advice about baiting people. Maybe you thought you were in the company of mates who would back you up. Maybe you thought your little swipe would go unnoticed. Maybe you were trying to impress your mates with your little jab at Brokebackcowboy. Maybe you wanted to be a conformist prick and follow the pack. Maybe you yourself were suffering momentary dementia. Whatever the reason, you threw out the first insult and I answered. Too bad for you I read your post, eh? So stop whining. As for the term "Zionazi". Is it offensive? Perhaps to a Zionist who puts Israel above their own country. CNN reported this morning that a number of Americans are moving to Israel because they feel a stronger connection to that country and want to go back to support it. Good for them. At least we know we haven't lost any true Americans. Maybe Anchorite and the other Zionazis here will answer the call to their homeland, too. And ARKADYRENKO - ZFisk did not link to any Neo-Nazi websites. These people's idea of a Neo-Nazi website is anything that is critical of Israel. To them, the New York Times is a Neo-Nazi website. Such is the mentality of a Zionazi.
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These sites, which I linked to in Harry's WTC TB, were called Neo-Nazi websites by others. I don't think you can find anyone more opposite from Neo-Nazis than the people who run these sites ... www.nkusa.org and www.jewsagainstzionism.com
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Of course, anti-Zionist ultraorthodox Jews are not Neo-Nazis. However, the Neturei Karta bunch and others of their ilk have no problem meeting with and supporting assorted Jew haters and Jew killers like Hamas, Farrakhan etc. See http://tinyurl.com/rdbaw
and http://tinyurl.com/mccvg for one such case.
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