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Harry has seen Oliver Stone's WORLD TRADE CENTER...
SPOILER ALERT !!
Watching WORLD TRADE CENTER, I didn’t come away with any metaphors about what’s happening in our world today. It isn’t a subversive film with hidden agendas. There are no digs at that fearless leader that was/is running this country. There really isn’t any anger or hatred in the film, and at no point did I feel anger or hatred. In fact, there’s no mention of Al Qaeda, no mention of Islamic Fundamentalists. No blame assigned, none of that.
WORLD TRADE CENTER is about one of the downright scariest, most terrifying moments in U.S. History. It’s about men that wanted to help, but before they could help one single person, they found themselves beneath tons of rubble, in excruciating agony and torment… with little to no hope of survival. It is also about the utter helplessness of their wives waiting for word, unable to go to the scene, to aid in the search.
I should warn you, this is an intensely emotional film. There are very few moments of levity. At its heart – it’s a story of wading through despair and putting your faith in people you can’t see or know are coming. About staying awake through pain, of facing and resolving that you’re going to die, to find yourself alive… again. Of how Viggo Mortensen quotes from G.I. JANE are the most useful phrases in the world, when buried beneath tons of rubble.
I really didn’t want to see this film. I really had no hope for the movie. The trailers looked like a bad time. Let’s face it, we know the story. This event, that day, that place… it fucked up the whole world. It’s the foundation for why everything is so goddamn fucked up. I’m sick and fucking tired of 9/11 being invoked, because the rotten sons-a-bitches that put it on shields to hide behind and justify horrors after horrors… make me want to puke. The baggage of this series of events… it’s more than any movie can really hold.
Like many of you, I was awake and watching the gut-wrenching thing live. I sat there… in horror as the towers fell. Tears rolling down my face as two buildings that I never liked fell, because just looking at it, you knew… tens of thousands were dying. I’d seen Las Vegas casinos implode, but not with the idea that anyone was inside. This. This was a horrible memory, and honestly – I didn’t want to relive it at GROUND ZERO.
All of that said, there’s something amazing that happens watching this film. Well, especially watching this film clutched to someone you love. I highly recommend, if you see this film. See it with someone you can hold on to. Then pray to God you never have to go through anything like this with them in reality.
This isn’t the worst thing you’d ever have to face. There’s grimmer subjects. SOPHIE’S CHOICE comes to mind. The Holocaust. Cancer. AIDS. Watching your loved one die painfully. Ultimately, for the characters in this film… while the events were traumatically indescribable… they survived. 2, 749 died, this is the story about 2 of 20 that survived.
So, is that reaffirming? Is the film cathartic?
Yes. It felt good to leave that theater, to look into the face of the person I loved. Hugging her felt so good after this film. It’s hard to describe.
When the world ends in this film… When the first tower comes down – it’s… I can not describe the fury of it. The madness. Yet in that, “SKY IS FALLING” blink – the man, John McLoughlin, that Nicolas Cage is playing. He directed his men to run into the Elevator shaft area. He knew to do that. In that… bit of madness, he thought to direct his fellow men into the one place where there was a possibility of survival. The first collapsing of the building… was shocking. A fury. A maelstrom.
We stay with Nicolas Cage, Michael Pena and Jay Hernandez. There’s survival. Then the second tower fell. Mind you, they’ve NO IDEA what is happening. To them – this was the concourse collapsing. It was impossible for their minds to grasp what they were actually surviving. It is just… well… the end of the world.
The second tower falling experience just produced an eruption of tears and horror. It. It just, you can’t imagine. Stone doesn’t spare us the horror. I can’t imagine McLoughlin and Jimeno advising on this film. Of sitting down with Oliver Stone and going back in their minds to the moment and describing for him the nightmare… no, the reality that they experienced. This is as close as once can imagine the experience of SURVIVING being buried alive beneath the World Trade Center could be.
It’s a horror that no amount of reading CASK OF AMONTILLADO or PREMATURE BURIAL could ever bring you.
Why see the film? I know I’m not describing a good time here.
Well, through it all… there’s the hope that some fucking crazy ass marine… motivated by God and his deep spiritual sense of duty… will travel hundreds of miles to stand 20 feet above you, look through the rubble and hear you. The moment of discovery. I really can’t… I don’t… As I’m revisiting the moment in my mind here, tears are coming to my eyes – cuz it’s a moment of such release in the film. When you hear what that crazy looking marine apparently said to these two through the rubble… it feels so unbelievably pat, that it is joyous. So fucking amazing. It’s like the fucking Death Star exploded, like the cavalry arrived, like inevitable death could be cheated. That the possibility of survival wasn’t some clingy hope, but a reality.
It’s amazing. Just amazing. Easily one of the most joyous moments I’ve had in a film came when that Marine said what he said, and the look on Michael Pena’s Jimeno’s face. It’s just euphoric beyond anything you could imagine.
This isn’t an easy film for an audience to get through, but would you want it to be? In a world where helplessness and hopelessness continues to grab a hold of us as the whole world seems to be going mad, a film about hope, prayers answered and faith in your fellow man… that’s really something special, you should remember it. You should experience it.
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I saw United 93. I'm not ready for this yet.
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You pubelicas must be frothing already.
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Thanks. Rather than a capsule of the story, this cuts right to the viewer's emotions.
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Just thought I'd ask. So buildings fell? Is this a remake?
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Even though his last movie was an utter piece of shit, im a huge Oliver Stone fan. If anyone can recreate one of the most terrible days in American history its Mr. Stone. I cant wait. And Pirates 2 kicked all kinds of ass! Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
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is that I wasn't around 60 years ago to experience the holocaust, unlike everyone alive now who could go see this movie. I remember 9-11 just fine, and I'm sure that most americans do. I dont get the fascination with reliving it. I lived in Philly at the time, but grew up in DC. My brother went to school three blocks from the Capitol and I had numerous friends in NYC. IT was a terrible day and all these middle American country listening red staters who want to "feel" a part of what happened can go screw. I don't doubt that this and the Greengrass movies are excelent films, but what is the drive people have to relive this.. So we "Never Forget"? Screw that how short are people's attention spans that they have forgotten that day. I still get pissed everytime I see footage from that, and think about how worried I was for myself and people I knew. I've got more to say....
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No pun intended.
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On 9/11 I was buying supplies for a big move to Hollywood. A year later on the Anniversary I was working on a TV show and one of the producers, a 60 something year old man, was complaining about the coverage on the news. He said whats the big deal? and that is the attitude of many people I know in LA about that day. My ex worked in a nice clothing store and said that the coworkers had told her that on 9/11 as the day went on people were coming in to shop. Un frickin believe able. So when people said that the towers coming down were "Like something out of a movie" thats all Hollywood heard.
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That is all.
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He's not even Peter MacNicol. And wasn't it a plane full of convicts piloted by an evil Criminal mastermind that hit the first tower? Or was it lit on fire by Ghost Rider riding up the side.
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One racial slur and off we go!
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happy meals featuring little twin towers that give sage advice are now available at mcDonalds
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I'm with you GrayAkira. I want to be there at 12:01 AM on August 9th, front row. And I second that PIRATES 2 ROCKED! Boo-YAH!
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Maybe if I was 15 and just trying to realize how crappy the world can be, I would see this to remind myself. But I'm older and understand things better and deeper now and have no desire to sit through this.
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Fuck it in the ear.
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so This HARRY GUY IS A PLANT!!!!!
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lets just say i don't care about the too soon...etc argument or the political agenda or the fact oliver stone is a hack. This movie sucks. Yes it doesn't "pick sides" but it is absolutely no fun and extremely depressing. I didn't expect to be entertained on a normal summer movie level but I had the complete opposite reaction of harry. I was glad those dudes survived but I didn't hug and cry and shit I just walked out. I am going to tell people to not see this movie. There is no need for it. Watch National Geographic or various other real documentaries about this subject you won't get much from Oliver Stone's POV.
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...of this. Can anyone confirm?
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What? Too soon?
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He hasn't made a decent movie since. No thanks. I still have that shitty U-turn and Any given Sunday pan seared on my brain. Ugh.
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This is a film that I don't think people will appreciate because in their own minds it is too soon. It isn't too soon for me. Especially since this is an apolitical film without an agenda of putting the blame on anyone. Everyone on this site bitches about lack of emotion and great stroytelling in a lot of films these days. Here is a movie, along with United 93, that looks to have those things. A movie that may make you cry or be inspired. With the exception of Alexander and The Doors I am a huge fan of Oliver Stone. I think this movie will be a tribute to the victims of 9/11. No conspiracy theories. No hackneyed dream sequences or tacked on scenes. Just some emotional and what we can sssume will be some heartbreaking filmmaking. I will see this movie first or second weekend because I think this will be one of the best films of the year, too soon or not.
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... considering how many people in my part of the country (southern U.S.) appear to have completely forgotten what 9/11 means (except of course during pious Sunday prayer and whenever the president invokes the date to set us off on another God-blessed misadventure in the Middle East). I work on a military installation, which underwent a full evacuation as the morning unfolded. Spent the next two days at home with my pregnant wife, trying to comprehend the enormity of the events in D.C., NYC and Pennsylvania. Bravo to Oliver Stone for trying to help remind us of the gravity and terror of that day. To forget? To put it behind us? That would be the real shame. Human beings aren't made to live in perpetual terror... but now and then, a wake-up call is a good thing. Here's one: more Americans have now been killed in the Iraq conflict than died on 9/11. And we honor their memory almost as foolishly as most of us still honor the memories of those lost on 9/11 -- by sending more of America's young people into the throat of the abbatoir. God help us...
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In this day and age this subject matter is the emotional equivelant of shooting a baby in the face (DAMN YOU HILLS HAVE EYES FOR NOT CARRYING THROUGH!!!) its gonna get a response no matter what. Not because its expertly crafted (which it may be, I haven't seen it) but because Uwe Boll could tell a story about 9-11 and people would feel emotions just because of their own experiences.
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Jul 18, 2006 2:55:01 PM CDT
Are the "Katrina" movie trailer previewing before this?
by ricky henderson
ugh--this TB is gonna be ugly...
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And it was an honor to have been part of the building, i was hurt there was the first person to be taken out of the building and sent to the hospital, i was outside getting my head and hand treated as the second plane hit. i am deeply scared to go see this movie, but it is something that i feel i must do.
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There, I said it. End of story.
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Just kidding! Anyone who believes 9/11 is a conspiracy is an idiot.
Watch Penne and Teller's Bullshit! episode on conspiracies. -
Is it still OK for me to see this movie? If I hug my right hand afterward will that do?
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...conspiracy meltdown to commense in 5...4...3...2...1.5...
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Was their goal always to start up a war with Lebanon, Iran, and Syria in the Middle East? Or did they also hijack the planes in order to make movies like this and continue to control Hollywood? Lets discuss!
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I can already envision the campaign rhetoric in my head...SIGH... Still, I hope Oliver Stone does a solid job with this film. This moment in history deserves to be captured well for future generations like FROM HERE TO ETERNITY and SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.
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Ya sure...sober, valid, historical references if there ever were. And Dinotopia was glimpse into the prehistoric world too.
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This 9/11 boat has sailed. How about some timely subjects like tsunamis or North Korean missiles fizzling out in the Sea of Japan or bombs exploding at Lebanese airports. Seriously, the whole "we're-doing-it-for-posterity" mode of thinking on behalf of the studios will quickly fade away if this movie fails to clear a nice profit. But I don't want to sound hypocritical - it's the job of studios to make money, and I don't mean that in a cynical way. We're American and we're capitalists. And, of course, we have the right to make statements like "too soon" and "teh suk."
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Jul 18, 2006 3:48:05 PM CDT
I learned all I needed to about 9/11 from Carson Daily
by ricky henderson
He got me through that tough day. Him and the genius broadcasters at MTV. No, it didn't seem like he was in completely over his head.
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Jul 18, 2006 3:50:16 PM CDT
I think everyone who has ever posted on these boards...
by mr nice gaius
...should search AICN and go read the TalkBacks that were set up and in place on Sept. 11-12, 2001. It's fairly compelling reading and an intriguing barometer for the various reactions from around the world. It was also interesting to see the various TalkBackers who were posting at that time vs. who is still posting on AICN today. -- Anyway, thanks for the review Harry; it was worth the read. Cheers.
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It's worse than we think:
http://www.loosechange911.com/ -
...remind me of a line from Walk the Line? You know, the one that comes after the warden at Folsom cautions Johnny against singing anything that might remind the men they are in prison? If anyone who lived through 9-11 and had loved ones or even business associates there has actually forgotten anything about that day, the odds are good that it never really hit home for them in the first place and no Hollywood production is going to help them develop an understanding of or appreciation for it. Wake me when Stone gets around to his Platoon-esque commentary on the Iraq war. Even if he takes as long to make that as he did to make this one after the first plane hit, the war will probably still be raging and the movie will be more relevant.
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watch this clip of Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's testimony to the 9/11 Commission and ask yourself why this was left out of the report.....http://tinyurl.com/nexww....
and then notice Cheney knew about an incoming flight! what were the orders? if it was for a shoot down, why weren't the Pentagon, Capitol building and White House evacuated... what if the orders were to let the incoming aircraft hit? just one of the many questions of 9/11. -
I saw United 93 and thought it was a great film. I believe that Oliver Stone has kept his politics out of this film. But I just don't trust his ability as a director anymore. Can a director suck for as long as he has and then suddenly regain his old form?
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These three guys go to the tower, it falls on them, they lay underground crying, the second tower falls(os) and they get rescued. ...? that's the movie? that's it? guys stuck underground and their wives crying too? I don't want to see that movie. I saw this movie five years ago on CNN. There is no purpose for this movie other than Hollywood fuckwigs wanted to suck as much money out of this day as possible. "Oh let's get Oliver Stone do make it, he's controversial!" Fuck this movie, all it is is propaganda against the terrorists. And fuck Newt Gingrich for calling the current situation overseas World War 3. SO Stupid.. I prefer it in the words of Stephen Coldbert "the crisis in the Middle-East. No not that one.. the other one. No not that one either, the other other one." That about sums up my feelings.
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So we've got:
1.Voter Fraud and Disenfranchisement
2.Stolen Elections
3.Lies and Omissions of 9/11
Gagging FBI Whistleblowers under "State Secrets Privilege"
4.NSA Spying on US Citizens without Court Warrants
5.using "State Secrets Privilege" to throw out spying lawsuits
6.Lies about WMDs
7.Fear-Mongering
8.A war that will never end
9.Record Nat'l Debt
10.A tumbling economy
11.Terrible Environmental Practices
12.Corruption at the highest levels of this Administration
13.Leaking a CIA agent's identity in retaliation of her husband's findings that show the Administration was lying about "Uranium from Africa to Saddam"
14.FBI admits "No Hard Evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11"
15.CIA has closed the unit in charge of hunting down Bin Laden
16.Unrelenting support for Israel's War Crimes.........................................
NOW ALL BUSH NEEDS IS A BLOW JOB SO WE CAN FINALLY IMPEACH HIM! -
There were obviously American hands involved in the cause of 911 and to me, that would be an infinitely more interesting movie and THAT would seem to be more up Oliver Stone's alley...maybe 10-20 years from now we'll get that film.
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and remember this was before either tower collapsed......http://tinyurl.com/lrln9....<---YouTube link. Too bad Nick Cage's character doesn't hear this guy.
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You like "curious enigmas"...I like facts. I refer to history...you refer to kook fringe websites. Occams Razor bitch...look it up.
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I wonder if Harry cried more watching Armaggedon or 9/11 on the news (sorry, couldn't resist).
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most if not all wars have been started by False Flag attacks and that is FACT! and you mention Occams Razor?!?! haha. so 19 arabs with boxcutters and a man on dialysis hiding in cave defeated the most powerful nation in the history if the world. yeah apply that to yr Razor bitch and then ask yrself who had the means to pull off and who benefited the most from the events of 9/11. Occams Razor bitch.
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...when AGEIIX, GingerTwit, MinasPenithII, and the like played it. Now, you've got to scroll through the bandwidth jammin' afterbirth of folks like boast. Way to go jackass.
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Read some military history douche bag. Your ignorance is too stagering for me to fathom.
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i've posted nothing but facts.
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You've posted nothing but the regurgitated pablum of numerous others who did it long before, and much better than you. But I can understand how you must feel with a copy of "Loosechange" constantly stuffed up your ass.
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I think you mean brazenly training an army of Mujahadeen in a country the size of Texas. For five years with NO interference and $300 million.
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I suppose it would be hard to plan a caper like 9/11 if you had to nip outside the "cave" for a piss every ten minutes.
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1. The Pakistani ISI has been funded by the United States and Saudi Arabia for years.
2. Weeks before 9/11, Senator Bob Graham, Rep. Porter Goss, and Senator John Kyl fly to Pakistan.
3. Weeks before 9/11, Omar Sheikh, under the direction of Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad, wire transfers
$100,000 to Mohammad Atta.
4. On the morning of 9/11, Senator Bob Graham, Rep. Porter Goss, and Senator John Kyl have breakfast in
Washington D.C. with Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad, the head of the Pakistani ISI. The same man who
ordered the wire transfer of $100,000 to Mohammad Atta.
5. A few weeks after 9/11, it is reported on the online version of the Wall Street Journal that Lt. General
Mahmoud Ahmad ordered $100,000 wire transferred to Mohammad Atta.
6. A few weeks after the news of the wire transfer, Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad is sacked from his position.
7. Senator Bob Graham and Rep. Porter Goss were in charge of the Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11.
8. Daniel Pearl, a Wall Street journal reporter, is alleged to have been on the trail of the $100,000 wire
transfer. Omar Sheikh, the man Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad ordered to wire transfer the money, is the
prime suspect in the murder of Daniel Pearl.
9. The Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 released a report with 28 redacted pages.
10. Family member Bill Doyle claims he heard from a source that part of the information in those 28 redacted
pages refers to the United States' financing of the Pakistani ISI.
11. It has been alleged that the 9/11 Commissioners were bribed by a Pakistani Lobbying group not to
mention Pakistan's involvement in the attacks of 9/11.
12. The 9/11 Report neglected to mention any of Pakistan's involvement in the attacks of 9/11.
13. Pakistan is a CLOSE ally of the United States in the so-called, "War On Terror".
14. When confronted about the $100,000 wire transfer, 9/11 Commissioner Thomas Kean denied any
knowledge of the transfer, even though it was on the list of questions submitted by the 9/11 Family
Steering Committee. -
becuase the people who conspired to bring it about dont want it to be told. the people who run the Us and the UK are dangerous people. that I now belive. These are fundamentalist christians. their goal is destory the middle east and rid it of Islam and then convert the people of islam to christianity. Is kim jung ill a lunatic yes, the tehran nutcase a loon too yes. tehran loon wants to destroy the mullahs. and replace them with him. Dick Cheney said when asked about the middle east said three words let it burn, the neocons have started something which wont be stopped easily, the only people who can stop the neocns are the american people.
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you'd rather be ignorant and think there is nothing we can do. you can get out and be active, spread the message, organize. if we don't the future will be very bad.
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This is one of those times. I want to see this movie so bad.
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I gotta agree with YackBacker and MNG, you conspiracy theorists are bringing nothing new to the table. Your shit is recylced speculation, innuenedo peppered with half truths and coincidences that you dicovered on some crazy persons website and have sold to you on gospel. You are so desparate to belive in something, anything that supports your partisan beliefs that you abandon logic and faith in humanity. Its sad really but you will continue to call us that don't blindly leap at your theories "sheep", ya know us normal folk, who don't give the current administration a free pass and who regulary question him on what he does but don't believe that the worlds problems began on 1/20/01. By the way I have kept myself entertained for hours on those out there conspiracy sites, they're quite funny and a little disturbing. But you may want to take note that the common theme seems to be that its not just the Bush family operating independently - they are working with *gasp* the Clintons to form their New World Order. Doesn't that assertion just BLOW your mushy partisan minds?
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I love this stuff. You see, boast here copies and pastes an alleged assembly of "facts" to support a thesis of some sort. Not once do any of these yahoos ever pause to consider the fact that it doesn't take a nation or an army to create a ripple on the other side of the globe. All it takes is a guy sympathetic to a cause, a little bit of cash, and some questionable alliances and bada-bing, bada-bang, bada-boom. An instant-sell conspiracy passed off as "fact".
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there is all sweetness and light between the bush administration and the pakistani dictatorship. however, privately it is a different story. When Bush issued that imortal line you are either with us or against and if you are not with us then you are with the terrorists. that was code to Pervais Mushariff anmely we know what you are doing and we dont agree, so sign up or else. They offered him three billion dollars of armaments to sign up to the war on terror, privately however they know that his position is very tenous and that if he should fall, there nightmare scenario will come to pass. Millitant islamsits with nukes. They have tried to ill Musharif three times and failed. one day they will get lucky.
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...but I doubt I'll ever pay to see another Oliver Stone movie. Lets face it, the guy's a milquetoast director who uses his politics to hide the fact that at the end of the day, most of his movies are forgettable. Except for Platoon. That one was pretty good.
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Busy with work on season 3 of Deadwood, Jeffrey Jones turned down an offer to appear in the sequel "MOM AND DAD SAVE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER." Teri Garr and Jon Lovitz are already signed.
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..you forgot to cue the liberal pond scum.
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I mean its common knowledge that republicans and "neocons" are eeeviill. But liberals and democrats certainly cannot be bought and sold to corporations and lobbyists, they have a genetic predisposition that does not allow it. Praise Allah that we have them and you conspiracy nuts as our protectors. please tell us again what you patriots are doing for us uninformed zombies out here? Of course I mean aside from posting regurgitated links on movie website forums.
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any 9/11 conspiracy and subsequent coverup depends on such a grand lack in faith in humanity that it is laughable. Such a scheme would require hundreds to thousands of the most evil, deceitful, conscienceless people who are believing that their plan is in the best interest of not only our country but the world (of course they are all republicans and conservatives drafted for their cause on or after 1/21/06) to pull off. I have a hard time believing that not one person involved in this grand scheme would not have a conscience and would not be a whistleblower, especially in a country who would praise and make a hero out of such a person. Of course you will tell me that these people are bought and paid for and dissenters have been "silenced". Of course the conspiracy relys on those involved in the coverup at the DoD, DoJ, AG, FBI, CIA and Pentagon all to be card carrying republicans right? Because only republicans are eeevil enough to devise such a plot.
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...about faith in human nature. Unless, of course, you have faith that the majority of humans are going to do whatever they feel is necessary to further the chances of their own suvival and comfort over others. History has demonstrated this amply in every "civilized" corner of the world. In that light, the concept that someone within the U.S. governmental power structure might have known about what was coming down on 9-11 and might have calculated that, net-net, it was a potentially profitable situation for him or someone close to him, doesn't seem all that far fetched. The undisputable truth remains that either our government was inept in preventing these attacks or was complicit (by action or deliberate inaction) in them. I still don't like any of those choices and I still don't have enough evidence to completely rule any of them out...six years later. That's distressing, but not surprising. Human nature is also to try and avoid culpability, be it through the covering up of one's mistakes or misdeeds. I think Yackbacker's attitude is exactly why nothing will ever happen to correct the many inherent flaws in our system (he pointed a fair number of them out). Most people think it's not something they can change and the people in power count on most people thinking that. Again...faith in human nature.
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just look how NASA operates. The military is even more compartmentalized than them. That argument doesn't work.
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the last four sentences of your post illustrates exactly why you kooks and your threories will never be taken seriously. Those who don't buy into your loosely scattered assertions are obviously "sheep" and have "drank the kool-aid", "insert lame overused cliche here". When the Revolution is at its peak and you and yours are busy playing I Told Ya So Saviours will you be kind enough to forgive us Doubting Thomases? Is there some kind of "Thank-You-Indentured-Servitude Program" we can sign up for now?
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Is it more effective, less or just different because it deals with individuals?
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Several of my friends are Muslim, and I think I want to punch you. Also, I fucked your mother up the ass.
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Of pussies like Harry who cannot bring themselves to 1) recognize the real evil 2) need a conspiracy to make themselves feel warm and fuzzy 3) are too mentally immature to realize that the mess in the middle east is NOT the work of the Bush administration but the boiling over effect of 60 years of the Muslim Brotherhood and 4) are the people who have motivated these Islamic extremist groups to continue their murderous ways by constantly attacking the Bush administration while practically ignoring the terrorist groups, the realities of 9/11, and admitting that war in the middle east was INEVITABLE. So, congrats Harry, and the like... you are helping to cause the death of hundreds of thousands of people with your proxy support for the Muslim Brotherhood.
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I have no problem buying into people doing what need be done to further their agenda or cover their own asses. And normally I can dismiss the illogical but I have to, absolutely HAVE to believe, maybe its the naive, idealist in me, that if 9/11 was a grand conspiracy implemented by (for arguements sake lets say) 1,000 government employees, that at least one out of those thousand stop and say to themselves "What the fuck am I doing?" during the process or "What the fuck have I done?" after the fact. Yes, it may seem illogical but my belief and naiviete dictates that I buy into it, just like conspiracy theorists illogic beliefs that all 100 of those government employees, who were all without conscience or remorse and were all of course conservatives.
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So every Bush hater on here thinks Bush lied about Iraqw, but NOT about 9/11? So sad to see otherwise intelligent film fans completely buy into every word of the neocon version of 9/11, especially when HALF the 9/11 families believe there is some sort of US complicity. Anyone watch CSI? Why wasnt any "CSI" work done for 9/11, starting on day one? Because they knew instantly it was "Osama and 19 nutjobs with boxcutters?" In a murder case, is simply the hitman responsible for a killing, OR do we TRACE the funding and who ALL was involved? Because 28 redacted pages of the initial inquiry FOUND that Pakistani ISI had funded the hijackers with covert US money, and when the FULL truth of 9/11 comes out...even the skeptics and those claling us "tinfoil idiots" will be left in shock. Only 9/11 truth can stop these illegal wars of aggression and American hegemony.
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Government attacking it's own people and blaming it on a foreign enemy...why that's never happened before! Our wonderful neocons woul dnever take advantage or want something like 9/11 to happen!
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...which assumes that all of it WAS true? - depicting the government plot, remote controlled planes, the 'controlled' WTC demolition, ignored warnings, fake Pentagon plane etc as if they ALL really happened. Apart from it being TOO SOON, I think that's a genius idea. Like a big budget version of that JFK Quantum Leap ep.
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...at the worst, people in our government as far back as 1998 or 1999(yes, under Clinton...ever heard of the shadow government or secret covert ops?) had a hand in it. People say "something like this could never be kept secret!" Well, why would it need to involve a lot of people? Someone to send funding to Pakistani ISI, who controls al Qaeda. Someone to make sure the hijackers got their special Saudi INS visas, someone to order the FBI off the trail of the hijackers, etc. Also do YOU KNOW how many covert ops went unreported? US involvement in East Timor genocide, US massacre of thousands in Panama in 1989, Manhattan PRoject, etc. Not one person peeped for over a decade, and it took tenacious Woodward and Bernstein like journalists to dig up the truth. There has been already so many government whsitleblowers from the CIA, FBI, Pentagon, former high level defense planners, even former White House ofifcials from Reagan and Bush who HAVE come forward and charged official US complicity. Google Operation Northwoods to see the prescendent, and research other well known false flag ops like Tonkin, USS Liberty, etc.
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Otherwise I just turned the sky red simply by saying it. ALthough you did not elaborate I get the gist of what you are hinting at in regards to NASA, govt, military, etc. However, in regards to my faith in humanity to do what is right - there is no way for me to prove my "argument" or for you to disprove it. It is simply my belief, my opinion, you may think it silly, which is your right and your opinion however I will not, and most will not, buy into a 9/11 conspiracy without solid facts and so far all of us sheep aren't being persuaded by speculation by some dude on the internet. Until your theories can advance past that it will be continually laughed at. Why hasn't the media, in all its rush to demonize the current administration, leeched onto the scoop of the millenia? And "they have tried but they have been silenced" is not an asnwer. Are there no Woodwards or Bernsteins out there? Someone not afraid to confront the government at all costs and make a name for themselves in the process? Where is the political messiah that some of you are sitting on the sidelines waiting for?
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I knew it was only a matter of time before you came in here with your cuts and pastes from previous talkbacks, although someone did beat you to the Loose Change link. You're slipping man. I love the Bush-Clinton Illuminati talk it makes for a great read. And that word "illuminati" is just plain ol' fun to say. You try it: "ill-oooh-min-ahh-tee". Sounds like a fancy french wine or something.
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Seriously, Ashok0, I'm as American as you -- I haven't even been to the Middle East. Please have the decency to call Cindy Sheehan by her actual name -- you don't hear me calling your overlord "Unshaved Vagina" instead of "Bush". Also, I agree -- we need Americans like V -- but in this country, not the Middle East.
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I'm sick and tired of critics justifying 9/11 movies for the sake of art. Wow look how Oliver Stone filmed that, listen to the music he used. This movie will make you cry and hold on to your loved one. Relive these events again and again, for no apparent reason except to celebrite the joy of movie making. STFU! Harry ends this review like it's a heartwarming movie for the family. It was joyous! Go see Oliver Stones new movie! about an event that changed the world forever and still might in the year ahead. Lets trivialize it! Get yourself some popcorn and be joyous! Art comes before real life. Especially when it's Oliver Fucking Stone. Because movies come before everything according to these socalled movie critics. Real life is a movie as far as they're concerned. You can try to explain why this movie had to be made and why it's incredible. why u need to see it. but nothing nothing noting, will ever justify making a 9/11 movie. Can't wait for the ads. --- Critics say 9/11 is a moving picture you must watch. Ebert and Roeper give it Two Thumbs up!--- We're Americans and we must make movies about every tragic event in our lives, because this country is all about commercialism and making money!
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Revenge of the Sith IS a 9/11 film. Theory has been written about this shit. It's true -- pick up a film journal sometime, folks.
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And with that, I'm done. You can't fight people who are unwilling to learn. I don't even know who "Fatty Sicko" is.
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Woah, calm down, fuckhead. What did I ever do to you? And "shit" was being used not in the pejorative, but as a replacement for overused words like "stuff". And don't call me young -- I can remember your birth.
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Americans act like children? And bad guys? What are you babbling about? The only bad guys are the ones you're unwilling to recognize. And you never answered my question -- what did I do to you to make you tell me to eat shit? And please, it's not "my theory". Art is not created in a vacuum -- every American film made since 9/11 has been impacted in some way by that event. Take a look at "Signs", "Superman Returns", "X2", "Batman Begins", "Serenity", "The Assassination of Richard Nixon", just to name a few. Television has been impacted in a similar fashion -- check out "Deadwood", "Carnivale", "Battlestar Galactica", et al. I'm quite confident in my beliefs, and I have a tendency to use words like "fuckhead" when dealing with, well, fuckheads. Have a good day. :-D
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Without them, you wouldn't have this great country.
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You heard him: he wants Canada for the Fatherland's own.
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I love that shit
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for "fuckhead". Next time, state that. I took offense because my brother is a Native American. "Is this our American dream?"
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I'm not even trying to be witty, nor did I ever claim to be. I am well aware this is an internet message board. In fact, while you've been thinking really hard about what to say to me, I've been engaged in multiple conversations I care much more about, took a deuce, and watched televison.
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To clear things up? I did have a hero, but he wasn't named Hugo. However, your government saw fit to deprive us of him.
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You really can't see anything past your nose, can you? And I'm glad you realize that this is cyberspace -- because you seem to care an awful lot about this...
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Actually, no, it's not JFK. Not every left-winger worships at the altar of Jack Kennedy.
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My error.
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... Harry's girlfriend is probably more well known than the thousands of visitors to this site. That's not a burn, by the way. Except maybe at Harry finding ways to mention that he has a girlfriend.
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Who's stupid now?
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I do know my history, as a matter of fact. I just thought you and your sidekick's ridiculous defamation of liberals had something to do with a biased, conservative look at history. My bad. Shame on me.
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Please. I know how this site operates. :-D
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I agree, actually. The idea of Batman, Wolverine, Gollum and Jareth all in the same movie makes me happy.
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http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
blows most (if not all) of the major conspiracy theories apart -
I'll tell you why there hasn't been a 9/11 conspiracy movie made...
because they know guys like "boast" would go to the theater and "Pee-Wee Herman" their night away over it.
Of course, it would be funny to catch George Clooney cranking one out and turn him into the next great celebrity mug shot -
It's no mystery I really respected Paul Wellstone, having mentioned it in previous talkbacks. However, your rampant attack on my more liberal statements would make most anyone assume your political leanings were of a conservative nature. :-D Have a good day!
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WTH does that mean? You didn't like the buildings? They never invited you to a free buffet there or something?
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Let's just put all this behind us, and focus on the world's bigger issues, like depriving Halle Berry of her Oscar and that cancer issue.
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Female orgasm jokes are always hilarious. And no, that wasn't sarcasm, I actually appreciated the joke.
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Well, to correct your post two points up, it's not "my" idea -- sorry, but I'm a semantics nerd when it comes to what is and isn't my idea. Here's the jist of it: http://www.alternet.org/story/14399/ I have my own notions on the subject, but this is one of the more popular theories.
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Harry, i typically respect your reviews as they come from someone that genuinely loves movies. but on this one...you repeat the bizarre practice (as so many critics have done on this subject with UNITED 93) of treating your readers like children. you feel a need to "warn us" of its intense emotional nature. and you say that you "didn't want to see" the film. what's THAT all about? WWT and U93 deal with the most crucial events of our time--and they are directed by fine filmmakers. why on earth wouldn't i want to see them? you don't "warn" anyone about all the horrendously vile and gruesome slash and blood flicks that assault us constantly. to say we can't handle the subject matter reminds me of the government saying we can't handle pictures of the Iraq war nor the images of coffins returning home. i think that is a big problem with what's going on right now...we don't look. we don't REALLY pay attention to what's going on. i prefer to keep my eyes open and engage the subject at hand. and i applaud greenway and stone for opening our eyes.
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to have been an accident. Sadly, my gut tells me it's not.
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But once an already outspoken politician speaks out against his government's actions, runs for re-election and dies right before that election in a plane crash, and everyone in government looks the other way, my gut tells me something's wrong -- and I trust my intuition more than what I'm told to believe by anyone else. It's saved my life multiple times.
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...was in anger, yes -- not intuitive, but then again, emotions often trump even intuition. And all is forgiven, Yack -- you have my apologies as well.
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And it didn't hurt that it was finely-directed and had some fine acting, especially from Liam Neeson.
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TOO SOON!!
Just jokin -
And the best part? They make Forever and "& Robin" look all the more stupid. "Hi Freeze, I'm George Clooney pretending to be an action hero!"
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I think that'd be terrific -- and I rather enjoyed when he teamed up with Nolan with Insomnia; his dramatic stuff is best, I think, especially when tinged with the psychotic. Underrated flick, IMO, and I've always thought Maura Tierney and Martin Donovan were kind of cool.
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Mad Hatter? Riddler? Two-Face? He's already played a character named "Janus"...
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However, whenever someone tells me I should have seen that movie, I just look at my ten bucks and realize how much more entertained I was the year Howard disappeard, and came back bald -- there goes my ideal casting for Stony Stevenson in a Sirens of Titan movie!
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Way to compare some serious shit to "Star Wars". Congratulations, you've somehow managed to make 9/11 about you. I applaud this, because it's truly something.
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...because no one's vocal delivery could ever beat Michael Ansara's, IMO, but maybe he could be Scarecrow? Although Jeffrey Combs was also great on the cartoon...decisions, decisions!
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Martin Donovan as a thinner, younger Harvey Bullock. Because no one would take a Godzilla-sized cop seriously in the universe Nolan has created.
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...I could buy him as Jim Corrigan.
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Talia Al Ghul is hotter than the air in the northeast right now.
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but i'll never ever watch it again and i'm guessing it will be the same for this movie
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Bring Bullock in towards the end of movie 2 or in movie 3.
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>>ITs friggin Hollywood and its disgusting...
by modlight July 18th, 2006
02:16:51 PM CST
On 9/11 I was buying supplies for a big move to Hollywood. A year later on the Anniversary I was working on a TV show and one of the producers, a 60 something year old man, was complaining about the coverage on the news. He said whats the big deal? and that is the attitude of many people I know in LA about that day. My ex worked in a nice clothing store and said that the coworkers had told her that on 9/11 as the day went on people were coming in to shop. Un frickin believe able. So when people said that the towers coming down were "Like something out of a movie" thats all Hollywood heard.<<
I got the same "doesn't affect me" attitudes on 9/11 by the dumb shits I was working with at the time. Most people's sense of reality ends with their dicks or wallets, it seems. Unless one has actually had a family member or someone close to them die, they cannot grasp what that event means. Most of these posters have no genuine life experience, and therefore, no clue. -
We want truthful answers to questions such as:..................
1. Why were standard operating procedures for dealing with hijacked airliners not followed that day?..................
2. Why were the extensive missile batteries and air defenses reportedly deployed around the Pentagon not activated during the attack?..................
3. Why did the Secret Service allow Bush to complete his elementary school visit, apparently unconcerned about his safety or that of the schoolchildren?..................
4. Why hasn't a single person been fired, penalized, or reprimanded for the gross incompetence we witnessed that day?..................
5. Why haven't authorities in the U.S. and abroad published the results of multiple investigations into trading that strongly suggested foreknowledge of specific details of the 9/11 attacks, resulting in tens of millions of dollars of traceable gains?..................
6. Why has Sibel Edmonds, a former FBI translator who claims to have knowledge of advance warnings, been publicly silenced with a gag order requested by Attorney General Ashcroft and granted by a Bush-appointed judge?..................
7. How could Flight 77, which reportedly hit the Pentagon, have flown back towards Washington D.C. for 40 minutes without being detected by the FAA's radar or the even superior radar possessed by the US military?..................
8. How were the FBI and CIA able to release the names and photos of the alleged hijackers within hours, as well as to visit houses, restaurants, and flight schools they were known to frequent?..................
9. What happened to the over 20 documented warnings given our government by 14 foreign intelligence agencies or heads of state?..................
10. Why did the Bush administration cover up the fact that the head of the Pakistani intelligence agency was in Washington the week of 9/11 and reportedly had $100,000 wired to Mohamed Atta, considered the ringleader of the hijackers?..................
11. Why did the 911 Commission fail to address most of the questions posed by the families of the victims, in addition to almost all of the questions posed here?..................
12. Why was Philip Zelikow chosen to be the Executive Director of the ostensibly independent 911 Commission although he had co-authored a book with Condoleezza Rice?..................They refuse to answer these questions. -
Have a better one.
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We all know is was fucken Randy and Lahey. We're supposed to be friends. You're making Bubbles cry.
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F this Talia BS.
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read the article I posted earlier, here's the link: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
might not answer every single question you posted, since it was meant to mostly discuss the towers and planes/crash sites, but about the 20 documented warnings; none of them said that airplanes would crash into the twin towers and the pentagon on a specific date, so they can't just shut things down everytime they get a vague threat report (they get those all the time) -
It's shooting fish in a barrel. It's still fresh in our minds. It takes zero skill to bring those emotions back to the surface. And THAT is why I say... That's right... "Too Soon!"
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as long as religion and money exist things like the war and 9/11 will continue...if you want to see why alot of this stuff is happening watch Lawrence of Arabia...and read a history book or two
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http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/
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How's that sandwich board? Have you taken a bath lately? You know perfectly well that there are answers to all those questions, yet you twits continue to ask them. You will never be satisfied until you get the sort of answers that support your preconceived view of the world where the wicked capitalists, neocons and Zionists plot world domination. This shtick is getting real old. Give it a rest, take your meds, get some sleep.
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Won't be wasting money to see this in the theatre or DVD. A cash in on 9/11 is what this is.........................and a attempt to resurrect Stones career.......and give him some cash to buy dope.
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Is this movie, review proof like Schindler's List because of its subject matter? Would anyone dare trash it? I dont think anyone would have the balls and risk backlash. Thats a fucking shame. All of Oliver Stone's recent movies have been shit. Why should this one be any different?
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But I will dislike it anyway as I find most of Stone's films ponderous. Oh, and Schindler's List was meh. Spielberg at his manipulative worst. The infallability principle is alive and well, but never seems to work on me.
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Asshole. So did this movie make Harry cry in the shitter? Anyway, at least they didn't use 9/11 as a backdrop for a hackneyed romance like a couple films I coud name.
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...it's more comforting to believe in sinister cabals running the world from behind the scenes than it is to believe that no one's running it at all. Keyser Soze or Moriarity are more comforting than the idea that the nice boy down the street wants to break into your house when you're at work or the retired neighbor across the road might be looking at your kids for all the wrong reasons. In The Conqueror Worm Poe described it as the "bidding of vast formless things that shift the scenery to and fro". It's why we have the Illuminati. How much more terrifying is it, really, that a bunch of crazy and not all that smart fundies killed three thousand people at the heart of our financial and government centers because how we live depends on people not wanting to do those kinds of things. And then that we, the mightiest nation in the world, reacted in just the way the leader of these people said we would, by striking out while still blinded with rage at some country that didn't have anything to do with the attack, wasting US lives and treasure and diplomatic goodwill. That we did it not because it was phase whatever of a grand plan that started with the birth of George Bush from a jackal mother and the preserved sperm of Joe Stalin, but because we as a nation were drunk angry and Iraq was stading there, a state that had sponsored terrorism in the past, that had one of the biggest monsters on the world stage as its leader, that had no real friends and UN resolutions already piled high in justification and had oil and possible Kurdish allies besides. Who wouldn't rather believe it was a conspiracy? If it's a conspiracy all you have to do is blow up the death star, record the president monologuing his plan, get the bad guys to follow the tanker filled with sand. If it isn't a conspiracy...then its us.
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hahahahaha. supe is an a-hole. big time.
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Jul 19, 2006 12:56:27 AM CDT
I hate this political garbage people toss around here..
by spectrebeeyatch
Why don't we talk more about Batman or another topic? Like, will there be more Spider-man movies after 3?
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Back to the Future III is flawed and you know it. Okay at the end of BTTFII Marty goes to the Doc who just sent him into the future for help. okay so now starts BTTFIII. The doc from the 50's now has to help Marty get to the old west. because they find out doc dies in the old west. So now the doc from the 50's is the same doc in 85 from BTTFI who knows all this. So how come when Marty gets to the old west. doc is surprised to see him there and marty has to tell him that he gbets killed? doc should already know this. he sent marty to the old west to go save him in the 50s. So you see. FLAWED!
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I should've warned you that the kookspiracy theorists will tell you the Popular Mechanics investgation has been "debunked". Certainly random retards with an internet connection are to be trusted over scientists. After all, as it was told to me here in these talkbacks in the past, Popular Mechanics is simply the propaganda arm of the Pentagon. I kid you not, you cannot make this shit up, well sane people can't anyways.
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It was like a bizarre car crash that I couldn't look away from.
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It's obvious the Bush Admin. setup 9-11 just so they could take power.... I mean being President isn't enough, you would have to have something like the Patriot Act to actualy effect laws... Wait, I think Oliver Stone should have made this like JFK and had someone on the grassy knole, or maybe made sure the terrorist used snakes on the plane.
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Jul 19, 2006 1:52:02 AM CDT
Awaiting a United 93 / WTC / September 11 triple bill..
by greatwhitenoise
That oughta be good for a nice long cry.
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I'm dizzy...
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harry seems to be really into it. pretty awsome review.
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Almost all of them start with a drumbeat, a Hans Zimmer fanfare...his very tone always says "You are about to see....the GREATEST MOVIE OF ALLLLLL TIIIIIIIIME."
Then you realize he's actually writing about a sequel to Corky Romano. -
I've been thinking. I live in Cali now but in 2001, I lived in Newark, NJ about 15 miles away from the towers. I was a sophomore and it was my second day of high school. It was crazy, I was confused, my stepdad worked in the city, cell phones didn't work, crazy shit. I went up to the fourth floor of East Side High and through the window the sky was BLACK with smoke. I was crying, I couldn't get in contact with anyone, crazy rumors were flying everywhere, we thought we were all gonna die, we thought it was the end of the world...I saw the second tower fall with my own eyes.*****fast forward to now. I am in Cali, I'm married and my wife is from here. She was scared that day but she didn't experience it the way I did. When we went to see UNITED 93, I cried and cried, and I felt terrible. I remember pasing the towers on the Jersey Turnpike by the budweiser building and then the next day, there was smoke. Seeing the towers just like I remember made me feel terrible. I was shaking and I never had felt that way in a film. When the film showed the second plane strike, I just gasped and I felt so terrible. Just thinking about it makes me feel terrible. What it did was bring back all those feelings. My wifee was shocked and felt terrible. I thought I had gotten over all that, and I realized I had just forgotten. The film made me remember that day a bit too well. I was glad my wife could somehow relate how I felt but why would I want her to feel how I felt. Shit 9/11 is different for everyone and for me I was a scared kid. The film made me feel like that again. I didn't enjoy it and I can't recommend it but I'm glad I saw it. When the film ended I held my wife and cried through the credits. that night was quiet and very contemplative. It was an experience to feel those fears again as an adult. My wife and I are torn. Its important to remember, but to relive? And when it yeilds a profit? We'll just wait. Shit man, I remember EVERYONE had a little flag on their car...let me put it this way: we all say "Oh my God", right? What needs to happen for us to TRULY mean it? Btw, Amparo and I are desperately waiting for the next BATMAN. Thank God I can go to the Pacific Theatres by the mall and for a few hours forget my problems. John Leguizamo for Joker? Gotta rep my Puerto Ricans...My wife wants Josh Lucas for Two-Face. She likes him a lot in "Poseidon".
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Cause the official stance of the white house is that they have no evidence that It was Osama Bin Laden. Cheney said that himself. So who did it. All you people who think that the "kooky" theorists are just crazy, havent done the reasearch. If you did your own independant study on the facts and events surronding the 911 tragedy, you would most likely come with one of two conlusions. The first one being that the gouvernment was grossly negligient in its procedures and actions surronding the pre and post 911 events. Basically a bunch of idiots are running the country, and thats scary. And the second being that the gov helped or created this event themselves. Its not about humanity its about money. 911 is a catalyst for so much consumption, which equals billions of dollars of new spending in dry industrys. Meaning whoever planned it made a shit load of cash. Popular mechanics was debunked, and was quite an embarassment.
So for all those naysayers who arent plants on this site, do your own reasearch and come up with your own conclusion. Something so tantamount to our generation deserves a period of independent reasearch. Go for it before you call me or anyone else crazy. -
this ain't cool news
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Mr. dstrbo1. lets get our facts straight here. Super Fuzz on DVD petition!
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Jul 19, 2006 4:11:42 AM CDT
I was jacing off to midget porn when they came down
by the ghost of marcus brody
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Jul 19, 2006 4:12:49 AM CDT
by jacing I meant "jacking" or "masturbating"
by the ghost of marcus brody
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...the supposed
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Close enough. And money? Current 'cost' to US economy of 9/11=$660bn.
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From what they've shown so far in the trailer and the TV commercials it looks like Oliver Stone has taken the "guys doing their full duty in the face of almost certain doom" approach. Not a bad way to memorialize everyone who died that day.
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...comprehension of a five year old. If you were capable of reading anything in context, you'd see that politics were the topic of this thread long before I posted in it, and even then my commentary addressed more the nature of humanity as a whole than specific political agendas. Sure, I commented that a Platoon-esque film about the Iraq war would've been more relevant and more Stone's forte, but that is more my expressing a desire to see/hear his particular take on the situation (as I found Platoon fascinating...one of the few VietNam films that can be interpreted as both pro- and anti-war, both pro- and anti-American) than a personal comment from me on the Iraq war itself (which you know full well I do not support because I believe it was sold to the public under false pretenses and furthers an political/economic agenda over the cause of defending anyone's freedoms). Your statement on the end of the world was brilliant and oh-so-relevant. You didn't dispute or refute any of the options I offered as potential explanations for the fact that 9/11 took place. Know why? You can't. No one can. And I'll go you one further...the reason no one can is because either the investigating bodies have been completely inept in their investigations or because somebody (bodies) within those organizations is deliberately not doing his or her job. I don't like those options any more than I do the original set of options surrounding the how and why of 9/11. You keep insisting I must have a leaning or a preference as to what theory I believe. No, dumbass. That's my point. We don't have enough information to fully believe any of them and, unlike you, I am not so desperate to believe in anything that I will leap blindly to a conclusion and defend it ardently, defying logic, because it supports the world view I prefer. The reason you'll never be able to argue with or have a discussion with me about anything is that the objective and patient mindset is completely foreign to you. You don't understand it or anyone who thinks/feels differently than you do. So you come off sounding like a blowhard and a buffoon. I'll be happy to keep drawing attention to that if you persist in wasting my time with your pointless rhetoric.
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...I'm familiar with the concept of Classical Marxism, but you know as well as I that every attempt at that model has failed to some extent (for a current example, see People's Republic of China, which has become all about GNP and global market domination despite its internal message of "power to the people"). Some could argue that the very existence of capitalism within the closed system of a world we share makes the existence of Classical Marxism in its intended form a philosophical impossibility (try as they might, the would-be Marxist governments can't keep news of the wealthiest people in the world from the ears of their citizens, and the thought that someone else somewhere else can have whatever they want whenever they want it is difficult to digest while waiting in line for toilet paper). I'd take that theory a step further and say that especially Americans who have lived and breathed Capitalism for as long as we have would be more then reluctant to embrace any sort of Marxist philosophy (especially if marketed under that label). The mere memory of what was once theoretically possible under a Capitalist government would be enough to make the notion of working for something/someone else/greater than one's self unpalatable even to someone who had nothing but the promise of his weekly lottery ticket purchase under the former, flawed system. That's how ingrained the notion of free enterprise (which, you'll find, in a slightly perverted way - not unlike Communism perverted the core notions of Marxism - is the driving factor behind the careers of many non-psychopathic criminals) is in our cultural beings. So we obviously can't do away with Capitalism (look at what happened to the last guy who tried to convince a nation to forsake their earthly possessions and follow his higher ideals...they nailed him to a couple of boards in the middle east about 2000 years ago, I hear). Since we're waxing philosophical and touching on religion (which Marxism doesn't make allowances for), I've always felt the complete sublimation of desire as espoused by Buddhism (as desire, in that religion, is the root of all suffering) is the one theng preventing that from being an ideal set of rules to live one's personal life by. I think desire is a good thing. I think its a great motivator and one of the few reasons a lot of folks get out of bed in the morning. How does that relate to the larger scale issue we're discussing? The key to changing our world lies in making people desire things that are beneficial for the most people possible because, ultimately, it's in their own best interests. Convincing someone that a portion of their check should go to a program to train the undereducated and unemployable in some contributory skill would probably be less difficult than convincing that same person to give a drunk on the street a dollar (yet some people still think of the latter as charitable and noble). Why? Because it makes sense on a logical, capitalistic level. It's an investment in human capital that will ultimately contribute to the bottom line. I've found, in my discussions with captains of industry and CEOs of various firms, that it's much easier to explain this concept when you put it to them in terms they understand. A business tends to run better when its employees are happy and healthy. They tend to be more productive when they feel they have a healthy balance of personal and work life. And they feel better about the company they work for when they believe that company has a philanthropic interest in the communities it serves (can be rooted in the understanding that what is good for potential consumers/clients is also good for the company, as happy, healthy consumers with more disposable income are more likely to spend it with you if they think you had something to do with that). The Great Place to Work Institute (which, if you know anythign about big business, is one of those bodies that EVERYONE seems very concerned with impressing) keeps stats on all of these issues, which are updated annually according to survey responses from everyone in contention to be on the FORTUNE 100 list of the best places to work in America. I've watched corporations embrace these concepts (all in an effort to make this list and reap the massive PR and recruiting benefits) and often take them even further than I ever dared dream they would, all with ultimately selfish interests but, in this case, the means actually justify the ends. If people in general could understand that our country can be run like a business with a philanthropic bent and a "genuine" interest in being a great place to live (and work), providing opportunities for training and health benefits for its citizens (employees) in exchange for their loyalty and continued contributions, I think the concept of Capitalism would become less evil in many people's eyes. I also think it would ultimately better our standing in the global economy and, through that, our position of power and influence in the world (I'm sorry, but it's easier to sway other nations to your way of thinking if you can show them how well it's worked out for you than if you try and strongarm them into compliance with ultimately futile displays of military might). Of course, this is an academic discussion at this point. But given the intricate relationship between corporate special interests and our government (on both sides of the political divide), I'm amazed that it isn't a more prevalent school of thought/set of talking points among politicians (I think Perot was the last guy to even come close, and most folks thought he was nuts).
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fuck conspiracy theories, fuck Bush, fuck Bin Laden and fuck this movie, I won't see it.
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...I wouldn't call your belief/faith in some underlying sense of common decency among humans (and Americans) naive. I'm actually glad you have it, because that indicates to me that others might as well. And there is definitely evidence (historical and current) of individuals who, as Jiminy Cricket so wisely advised, let their consciences be their guides. I think these people are evidence of a basic understanding of the philosophical/political approach I outlined above (one not as entrenched in the trappings of corporate/Capitalist lingo, which I used largely to make a point about how money and even the pursuit of it doesn't necessarily have to be evil). I think people like you understand, deep down, that the world's a small and potentially fucked up place full of a lot of unpredictable (yet oddly predictable) wildcards looking out for their own best interests at the expense of others. Those people (and, I assume, you) understand that it's the very least we can do to try and make the world as a whole a better place for others as well as ourselves because, ultimately, we're all in this together. And it doesn't take a vast conspiracy or even a majority of folks within a subgroup to fuck things up for the rest of us. Sometimes all it takes is a few guys with boxcutters on a hijacked airliner (and, maybe, someone not paying attention on the ground - bey accident or by design because they saw an opportunity to profit personally or believed in their hearts that letting the planes hit was the best thing for America in the long run). But for every one of those people, there's someone who was willing to run into the smoldering wreckage and risk themselves to possibly save another human being. And maybe that's what will make this movie worthwhile (yes, I'm actually entertaining the thought that I might've been to quick to dismiss this picture as unnecessary or irrelevant). If it truly focuses on the heroism of those who didn't see the world in terms of flags or agendas or profits...if it reminds just a few people that there were and are still those truly heroic individuals out there, willing to sacrifice everything that another may survive, then maybe it is worthwhile. I just hope that nobody (I'm looking at the politicians, now) is crude enough to try and use this as an excuse to make the attacks themselves a rallying cry again (either for the war or against the administration). Because I've had more than enough of that in the last six years.
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I thought it was an elaborate plot to kill Seth MacFarlane. And yes, I do realize that I'm going straight to hell.
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I think we should all get together at Harry's place and watch THE GOONIES. That would make us all feel better. For awhile... Will things ever change? Not without radical internal revolution, or devastating external influence. The military-industrial complex is one thing, but the machinery of America is so much more complex than even that dimly seen behemoth. It's monstrously huge... and it's blind-stupid, for the most part (the movie CUBE comes to mind). In the meantime, take care of the people you love. Buy a large dog. Learn about emergency procedures, from basic first aid and CPR to stockpiling emergency supplies and sealing up a home against chemical agents. Eschew Headline News for NPR and deeper, more probing news reporting sources. Become active in your community, or at least learn the names of your neighbors, and try to foster a spirit of community (all too rare in modern suburbia). And learn a second language. The truth of America is that nothing ever changes... but the truth of the world, and the human condition, is that EVERYTHING changes. If we feel helpless and unable to affect change ourselves, at least we can be prepared for change to happen. And it will.
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Are we Rome? Is the United States hurtling toward disaster, like the world's last great republic did? And is it truly inevitable?
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Saw the Dallas premier last night. Oliver Stone, Michael Pena (who plays Jimeno), Maggie G. (who plays Jimeno's wife) were there in person. The Jimenos watched it with the audience. In an interview with a local media person a group of us were listening and he said it was their first time watching with an audience, and it was cool how we laughed at the few light moments there were, that it was 95% accurate, down to the conversation the two men had while trapped. The two men and their wives were consultants on the film and they wanted World Trade Center to be an honest record of what happened, for the film to hold up 10, 20, 30 years from now. We saw his leg which is still in a brace but he says he's glad he can walk. Another story about the choosing of his daughter's name (his wife was pregnant on 9/11) that it had the word "live" in the middle of it, a 9/11 widow had pointed out to him, that he didn't realize when he was naming her. My husband, who is also a firefighter, gave Mr. Jimeno a commemorative coin with his fire dept logo on it.
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I hope not. There are certainly those who would draw the analogy and, in many respects, their observations would be right on. But for all our similarities, there are some fundamental differences. Despite appearances to the world at large, the majority of Americans don't view themselves as citizens of an Empire and -- again, I hope -- wouldn't support efforts to assimilate the entire world while neglecting to address many of the issues that threaten the nation and originate much closer to home (like in the back yard). I know that belief is easily shaken by posters who insist that American democracy and Capitalism as they currently exist should be adopted by or forced on all nations (you can read variations on that theme all over the INternet) but I have to believe that's a very vocal and undereducated minority. History is replete with examples of empires that grew too big for their britches and lost the support of the citizens who made them strong (not to mention the tactical advantages of a concentrated power base). I'd love to believe the majprity of folks in this representatvie government (or at least the ones who vote) are smart enough to have learned from history, and not in a way that allows them to delude themselves into believing that "this time it will be different because we're smarter/ better equipped/righteousness on our side (arguments that could've been made by almost any leader of any of those previous empires at the height of their power). Maybe that's an example of my naive faith in human nature. I have to believe that our intellect and understanding will eventually overrule our greed and come to terms with our Darwinian drive to secure as comfortable an existence as possible for our progeny. That's going to mean self-awareness, global awareness, a willingness to compromise and to work together (both internally and externally) if the U.S. is to survive in some form resembling the one we know today.
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He certainly had that crazy gleam in his eye when I met him. But he had a vision of a potentially better way to run the government (like a business, although I don't think he was fully on board with the philanthropy angle as I outlined it above) and it scared the hell out of both parties, probably because it made so much sense to so many people. Maybe he had to be nuts to think it was possible. Would've helped his cause if he also had the balls to stick with it.
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Maybe it's because I turned 39 this year and I feel f*ckin ancient all of a sudden, but I'm really finding myself compelled to look into civic activity lately. I've never been a political type, certainly never a leader or vocal activist... but I want to find ways to participate in civic leadership, at least on a local scale if not a larger one. We can't change the world... but maybe we can get those butterfly wings beating. We can't let America go the way of Rome. Maybe the world wouldn't slide back into darkness and savagery if we disappear... but I'd rather not test the theory! Here's hoping we've got a few good centuries left in us...
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... Pedophile. Anyway, there is no other kind.
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I live in Hollywood...everyone and everything here stopped that day, as did much of the world.
Stay out of this business and go work in Texas at a certain energy company.
I'd like to know who all of these 'people' you know are, or if they really exist at all! -
riding on Americans getting all teary from the memory of them once getting hit back? After many years of bombing one country to hell and back, they get the taste of terror and suddenly it's speeches, tv-shows, tv-movies, movies that will definetly win awards - not necessarily based on how good they are - and other crap. no thanks, I'll skip this. U93 was already bad enough.
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Jul 19, 2006 12:06:15 PM CDT
I was psyched until I got to this part of the review...
by napoleondynamite
"Well, through it all
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"Oliver Stone was once asked would he ever direct a movie based on the Desert Storm conflict, his reply was right on the money, "what's the point? CNN have already done it." Mass media coverage filled with propaganda indeed. So what's changed his mind? It's true he's Pro American, it'd be fair to call him a patriot. 9/11 hit every American close to home, regardless of who was to blame, suddenly the ideals and way of life that every US citizen take for granted are put at risk. Everyone's a potential terrorist. It's in Stone's blood to make a film symbolising the heroism of the people that day. But it'll all be in vain if he keeps the proceeds. He'll win the oscar, I'd wager cash on that now before even one frame of film has been shot. Not just because he's contiuning to make the movies he's best at (Platoon, JFK) and will create a wonderful piece of work. But because every American will watch and die inside when they see those towers collapse again."
Thanks Harry for a great review, thanks Ollie for pulling it off and fuck all the naysayers, you've all got hearts of stone. -
Siggh...I guess people forget that the real reason the towers fell was because Black Thirteen was inside one of the lockers of the WTC and drew the greatest evil on Earth to it's hiding place.
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... is they tread a fine line between modern America's romantic and practical natures. It's like this: we've been trained all our lives to view movies as a modern sort of Greek amphitheater, where bold souls tell and act out tales of extraordinary heroism bordering on the supernatural. Reaching too far back? Okay, then -- our entire movie industry (and I'm talking Hollywood, not indie branches that have successfully pursued other archetypal storytelling avenues) is based on the concept of the Western. Good guy. Bad guy. Bad situation. Good guy rises to the challenge and, even bruised and bloodied, wins the day. Sometimes at the cost of his own life. That's EVERYTHING that appeals to modern American males when it comes to "big" Hollywood motion pictures. So I think it's fair to say many (most?) of us are stirred by the idea of cinematic firemen running into a burning building to rescue the innocent, even though many of them fall victim themselves in the ensuing conflagration. There's an old, OLD American ideal there, and it sings in the film lover's heart because it's still a variation on the Greek epic, on the Western. The problem with this particular epic, though... is that it also dredges up one of the ugliest moments in modern American history. The romance is stripped away, to a large degree, by the realization that those heroic firefighters WERE BASED ON REAL GUYS. Guys like some of us, who were probably shitting their pants in fear but still ran into those burning buildings... because it was their job, and because it was their calling. And most of them died as a result. In the movies, that kind of heroism is beautiful and romantic and uplifting, even exalting. In real life... it just equates to a lot of heartbreak we can identify with as human beings... a lot of horror and pain and ugliness that it's in our nature to mourn and then put away from ourselves. So we're conflicted... we want the romance, the heroism, the continuation of the American mythos of brave men and sacrifice... but it's also all too goddamned real in the case of 9/11. So we're stuck in the middle. I think it's going to be very hard to sit through this film... harder, perhaps, to embrace the wonder and beauty of the thing than it is to endure the horror of it. We're trained to endure horror, many of us... but we're less well-trained, I think, to endure mythology too recently lifted from modern events. Am I saying "Too soon!"? I don't think so... I'm just saying this particular blend of cinematic storytelling and real-world horror may be incredibly rough for a lot of us to assimilate. I look forward to the experience...
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You guys win the "Worst Two Consecutive Posts Award". Boy, I've seen some stupid comments in these types of TBs before but come on, talk about useless.
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Way to think things out guys. Interesting comments Roguewriter...I too look forward to this experience. I look forward to movies challenging me once in awhile and as rough as some of these images may be, I truly think it can be a powerful experience.
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9/11 was not "one" of the ugliest disasters in modern American history, it was THE UGLIEST. I mean, in "modern" American history what really beats it? In a single day nothing worse has happened. One can go as far back as the Civil War and perhaps Gettysburg to justify this. Don't fool yourselves people, we've seen the worst. All we can do now is hope that nothing worse happens...
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Darth Vader voice: I find your lack of faith (in humanity) disturbing. Of course there are some sick self serving fucks out there...but I think there are many more people out there who HAVE a concience, and would NEVER let atrocities of that nature stand...especially if as many people are "in on it" as you think there are.
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Explain that shit. I can't, and there are tons of other facts that can't be ignored. Yeah, 9/11 was all masterminded by a group of thugs, who somehow flew a plane past the Pentagon's defense grid, looped around the damn building, then crashed into a relatively empty part of the building (which just so happened to be under construction so no Pentagon employees were there)... and amateur pilots flew airliners with no transponder signal around the country without being intercepted, and precisely hitting their targets while knowing they were about to die. That's insane. There are so many issues with the official story its absurd not to question it. You can go on and on with this stuff... the way they had all the names and faces of the terrorists hours after the 'attacks', the way they shipped the rubble out of the country before any scientific investigation was done (which is a federal crime), how the administration initially refused to have any official investigation into the 'attacks' until the victims' families raised a shitstorm and they had to comply... the thing is, if the nightly news came out and gave these obvious facts the time of day, it would be chaos. It's best that the truth is kept secret, actually...
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BOAST! (Trophy formally titled the "I Don't Have An Original Thought In My Brain, Please spoon Feed Me Wild Theories Up My Wide Open Bung Hole So That I May Spout Them Off To The Unwashed Masses" trophy.) Congrats.
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I think I will break down during the trailers.
Too soon for me. I don't think I have ever been the same since 9/11. I have a much bleaker and more cynical view of the world now.
I don't know how Stone was able to film this. -
I did, and you can't possibly be as sad as me. Childe Roland: Always well-expressed points. Smith and Yack: I'm glad that whole car-wreck of an exchange ended in peaceful coexistence. Neocons: Take a deep breath and go back to running Congress... for now.
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I'm not saying there was certainly a conspiracy, so I have no set number of people I believe to be "in on it." I'm merely saying it's one of two (three if you're nitpicky) possibilities, none of which has been eliminated yet, and that I won't be any happier with one of the other should any of them ever actually be proven. My lack of faith in humanity's general altruism and decency comes from a study of history and current events, as well as vast personal experiences with people. Genuinely altruistic individuals (those intent on improving the world for others with no eye toward personal gain in this lifetime beyond the gratification that comes from the act itself) are the exception and not the rule. Most folks are looking out for themselves or their families because that's what our instincts are screaming at us to do (with very good reason). I have faith in that. I also have faith that humanity is comprised largely of creatures capable of learning from the past and their own mistakes. I have faith that eventually a grasp of the logical will lead the majority of them to the conclusion that what is best for the world as a whole is what's best for their respective countries of origin and for them individually (particularly if the condition of our shared environment continues to deteriorate and the natural resources we've built our society around continue to dissipate). Actually that last one is more of a hope than a faith issue. If your experience and understanding of humanity has led you to different conclusions about their nature, I envy you.
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I think my father would disagree with you -- he was close friends with at least two people who died in the Pentagon that day. Sorry, but gotta disagree with you on that number. They didn't aim for a less-populated part of the Pentagon -- they hit it where they happened to line up with it, that's all.
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Big building fall on little building. Little building fall too
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Why do people find it so hard to believe that 19 hijackers could do what they did? The Pentagon? Reagan National Airport? Hello? Do you know how close they are? Talk about your overwhelming belief (and apparent ADMIRATION) for the supposed indestructible power of the United States. I've said this before in another one of these TBs: remember the Beltway Sniper? That fool and his little sidekick terrorized Maryland, DC, and Virginia with nothing but a scoped-out AR15. The notion that some "thugs" could take the nation by surprise isn't as far fetched as you think it is. Certainly not as far fetched as some of the conspiracy theories that conjure themselves when submitted to that way of thinking.
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I would say I'm on the same page with you there. I consider myself one of those people who are the exception rather than the rule. Bad acts and wrong doing ARE the rule...they tend to get alot of "pub" too. I see alot of good acts go by unoticed or under the radar too...and these have a ripple effect too. BUT, Good or doing good is something that must be practiced and cultivated. Our base nature struggles with this. Glad to see I miss read you a bit.
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You know what that sounds like to me? Sounds like that coincidence theory where the Mayan calendar says the world will end in 2015 (or something). Which is, of course, true because the grand tunnel in the Great Pyramid of Giza just so happens to be 2015 inches long. I'm not sure what any of that means but it hurts my head.
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they made sure of that by having it all melted down in China just days after the towers fell. The 9/11 commission were all team players, the few on the commission who would have asked the exposing, difficult questions were reassigned or promoted to get them away from the investigation. These guys knew how to get away with this... and they still are. Truthfully, I wish I never saw that building #7 video years ago. And Anchorite thanks for your civil post. I got riled up by the talkback, and in a moment of weakness I had to add my thoughts there. Normally I don't like to think or talk about 9/11 anymore.
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I find it amusing that people still want to call the Big Bang purely a theory, considering scientists around the world have spent the past 30+ years increasing (sometimes on a basis that makes your head spin) our knowledge about the event that initiated the creation of the known universe. Every year we find out more and more about the outer edges of the universe, and we're able to accrue more and more data illustrating, scientifically, that a cataclysmic event sent the cosmos hurtling in all directions, quite likely from a single, central point (I tend to believe it was an outhouse in New Jersey I stopped at once... but that's another story). Do I believe the Big Bang negates a concept of a creator? I do not. In fact, given the spectacular level of violence associated with the Big Bang, I think that kind of shit is right up God's alley. He's one savage motherfucker, that luvvin ole creator of ours. But hey, that's just my theory! ;)
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So, when is Spiderman 3 coming out? May 4, 2007? Can't wait.
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Alot of punks here scoff at the idea of 19 hijackers foiling the "all mighty, omnipotent U.S defense system"...as if this was THX 1138 or something. We live in a FREE and OPEN society. There's not much of anything keeping any of us from walking into a mall,theatre,donut shop etc. and commiting some violent atrocity. The same was once true on an airline pre 9/11. Heads up conspiracy fools...THE GOVT IS NOT SOME ALL POWERFUL EFFICIENT MALEVOLENT CABAL OF WILLING LACKEYS. Just look at all the examples of bungled inefficient bueracracy on display every day.
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... Ah, but "big building DIDN'T fall on little building." It was hit with a small amount of rubble, but not enough to cause major stuctual damage, not enough to cause it to fall. That said, I do have problems with all the conspiracies about 9/11, just as I have problems with "the Official Version" of the events. Of course no one gives a damn what I think, and we'll probably never know exactly what really happened... our great-grandchildren won't either. Life goes on, though... which is why I won't be seeing this one, the first time was bad enough and I don't feel any urge to relive that sinking feeling in my gut again!
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Let me be the first to blame Islamic Fundamentalists...
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Believe me, I'm no rocket scientist. I just work with them. Sometimes I think I approach their work now with the same dumbfounded, naively accepting awe I had for Christian doctrine in my pre-teens. I try to read everything I can... and I admit much of it flies right past me. But the scientific evidence of the Big Bang is hard to ignore (and dark matter has SOME basis in scientific fact -- there's definitely SOMETHING out there acting on these celestial bodies other than the gravity of other celestial bodies), and as I said, I don't honestly believe it negates the idea of a Higher Sentient Being of some sort. Honestly, despite having utterly lost my Christian faith in the last decade or so, I truly do hope there is a god. I want to look him in the eye and ask him some questions, and see if the Crash Test Dummies were right ("God Shuffled His Feet")... ;)
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How may days? One? Two? Seven?
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I'm not entirely sure but I also believe that every piece was moved to a location and tagged in order to be catalogued and accounted for. There is a whole whirlwind regarding the forensic analysis of the metal and how the conspiracy/9-11 Truthers view this information. Of course, some of the metal must still be out there somewhere because I believe there were reports back then of mobsters stealing some of the steel from the storage site.
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"It was hit with a small amount of rubble, but not enough to cause major structural damage, not enough to cause it to fall." .......
Is that your -
I was in the bathroom on the 92nd floor. Next thing I know, I'm sitting on the toilet on the street. WTF happened? I think my story is amazing. Someone should make a movie about it.
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Richard Pryor when he fell out of the building skiing in Superman III
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Really? I thought it was sooner than that, my mistake. If you accept the official story, I'm happy for you. I wish I was, I hate believing my government is responsible. But, there's just too much crazy shit that leads me to believe they are.
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Jul 19, 2006 4:34:13 PM CDT
Cockylamoo,by chance was that the same toilet anchorite
by excaliburffolkes
and Roguewriter were talking about above? The same one the big bang started in? :)
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Cookylamoo, sitting on some ethereal indestructible john and just shitting out the entirety of of the universe. Cuz... man... I KNEW IT!!!!!! ;)
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That Popular Mechanics article soem of you keep on refering to is a hit piece at best. It was edited by one Benjamin Chertoff. He is the cousin/nephew (i forget which one) of Michael Chertoff. Michael Chertoff is the Secretary for the Department for Homeland Security. Coincidence? 9-11 is a typical Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario. You "create" a problem (a terror attack on US soil by Islamo-facist radicals), there is an understandable reaction (outrage), and you offer up the "solution" (War on Terror, Patriot Act, War in Iraq, and so on). This stuff was planned years in advance before 9-11. Don't believe me, look up the Project for the New American Century.
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Shouldn't you be out front of some building with a blowhorn trying to harass the Illuminati/Bohemian Grove/Neocon/Bilderburgers somewhere? And how is your MySpace account? Murdoch hasn't deleted you yet for perusing teenage girls' profiles yet has he?
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So there's little chance of me being there. As for my miraculous descent, I attribute it to breaking wind at just the right time.
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go to www.infowars.com
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But there is blame to be assigned! A sick group of individuals with a completely warped sense of spirituality are to blame for the mass loss of lives. And its still going on! So many people say its too soon, we don't need to be reminded, but these same people are breeding violence on this very day AND THE WORLD IS TURNING ITS BACK ON THOSE WHO WOULD DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY FROM THESE SICK BASTARDS. I live in NYC and for weeks after 9/11 the stench of death and destruction filled the air, but I could not bring myself to even close my windows. I couldn't ignore this terrible tragedy. So you may not agree with what is happening in Iraq, that is no excuse to just discontinue the war on terrorism. FUCK HEZBOLLAH THOSE PIECES OF SHIT. That is all of my rant.
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it is available for download under PUBLICATIONS/REPORTS. it was written in 2000and includes the infamous quote "Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event -
Coincidence? No, a blatant cold-faced lie on your part. It is one thing to be a drooling imbecile, it
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You mean the evil geniuses behind 9/11 actually made their intensions public before pulling off the most heinous act of treason the USA has ever seen? Doh!
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I don
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woah.. blatant hatespeech and again the 24/7 AICN Mod watchdog gaiusYackbackerCantankerousZuzu is nowhere to be found condemming it..now watch what happens when i say this..NPR radio is reporting that the so called 'kidnapped' israeli soldiers are now secretly being moved to Iran.. hmm.. so convenient for "those zionist Pieces of shit" huh?
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http://palitonepress.blogspot.com/2006/06/amazing-coincidence.html
How is it that this didn't get more attention? I am not asking to promote any conspiracy, but how could the MSM fail to share this with the public? Wouldn't be newsworthy to have the Vice President's buddy testify and admit to something such as this? -
just ask kentdorfman...not literally though-- you'd only be talking to yourself..
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"... the art of warfare ... will be vastly different than it is today ...
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Israel went way too far this time. they fell right into the cheese/bait.. by moving forces to Lebanon and beyond, theyre leaving their home very open to the inevitable. way to go idiots. history will regard you neocons/zionists as the ones who both started WWIII.
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were finally letting our little pitbull(israel)loose on those fucks over there. way to go, sick em boy.
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"screw child molesters." Yeah, nuke 'em, fuck 'em, the world would most likely be 100% better off without them. Okay, how? I'm sure there's a child molester on my block ... I'd like to think nuking my neighborhood is not the way to root them out of society. I saw about the most depressing line in a Ha'aretz (Israeli newspaper) today: "Fifty civilians dead from an Israeli missile attack. One terrorist hit." Now, how they determined that is beyond me, but it's fucking depressing as all that if for every member of Hezbollah, fifty bystanders (or even five) get knocked off. AICN Talkback is hardly the place for a political discussion, especially one as confounding as this ... but to me, you come off as glib at best (asshole at worst, I'll say it) to post on a fucking AICN Talkback, "Yeah, hooray, kill kill kill ... now where are my cheetos?"
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"boast.. keep preaching the gospel, bro." ..... Like I said earlier, 9/11 Conspiracy = Religion for these knuckle-dragging misanthropes.
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this from a thug who is currently salivating over the unfolding genocide in Lebanon..
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I look at it this way. There's no way in Hell that it WASN'T an inside job. If you think about it for more than a second you realize that. It was such a MASSIVE and complex operation that it was IMPOSSIBLE without direct U.S. involvement. People keep saying that it couldn't have been an inside job because hundreds of thousands of people would have to be in on it and keeping their mouth shut right now. NOT SO! It could have been done with less than a hundred, maybe fifty people knowing the FULL story of what was going to happen. If any more knew they are already dead, many on the day of 9/11. Secrets are kept by killing people and not letting anyone know the FULL truth, just parts of it, so that in the end the whole story cannot be connected by just one person. BUSH probably doesn't know the full story. HERE'S WHAT I THINK HAPPENED, briefly. All the WTC buildings were set with explosives. If the planes didn't go to plan they would just set some of them off and say THAT was the attack. The towers would have remained standing. The planes were hijacked by Asian-looking men working for the government. When the transponders were turned off the planes were flown to the nearest military airbases and SOME of the passengers & crew led into hangers where they were unceremoniously executed. Meanwhile, drones took off from the same airbases with the same transponder signals. The remaining passengers and crew were FORCED onto United 93, which of course was then blown out of the sky, thus ending the lives of all the passengers involved on that day. The drones were expertly flown in the North and South towers (the planes were deliberately high so as to cause minimal fatalaties & damage, AND so the impacts were clearly visible to the world, AND also, if they missed the towers they would not fly into other buildings, they would be shot down away from the city where it could be covered up like Flight 93). The drone aimed for the Pentagon was NOT a commercial airliner because it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to pull off the manouvres (sp) to hit the correct wall. It was NOT a missile, but a smaller military craft. This is why there was relatively small damage at the Pentagon and no airliner debris (apart from the stuff obviously planted there later). Once they had made sure that most people were out of the towers and there was ample camera coverage of the scene, they brought down WTC 1 & 2 using explosives planted in the buildings. It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that either tower would have collapsed just as a result of the plane impact, gas explosions and burning fires. They fell at almost freefall speed (WTC 7 was virtually freefall - IMPOSSIBLE without controlled demolition). This was done to minimize further damage. The evidence of demolition was quickly destroyed (shipped to China and melted down)before it could be analysed. There's pages and pages of evidence out there.
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...and running for the hills (in typical Arab fashion).
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I support the moderate Jews of Israel who call for peace with its Arab neighbors. I also encourage people to watch Munich and Paradise Now. And fuck those Zionist psychos who are worse than Nazis. Scumbags who think their lives are worth more than Arab lives have no moral ground to stand on. Have a nice night folks.
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Bush has given Israel the greenlight to bomb the shit out of Lebanon for a week. Just watch - this was confirmed by European officials. So, from Bush and Israel's view, fuck the Americans who are in Lebanon, they can die with all the other innocent people. Nice. Fuck you Zionists to hell. Fuckers.
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see bbcboys'last two posts above.
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should have had Superman just taken control of Israel and Jerusalem as the new Messiah. That would have rocked.
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or repititive at all. **** I know some folks here have history and back and forth zfisk - I am not one of those people - however zfisk I must warn you if you appluad and egg on the crazies (looking at boast) you're going to be lumped in with that bunch. Just sayin'.
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bit of a coincidence all the groups (islamofascists, neo-nazis, skinheads, KKK, conspiracy nuts, et al) that like to throw the "zionist" label around like its part of their regular, everyday vocabulary?
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This is my first time posting on this site, though I've been a long time reader. I was browsing through the comments and I have to say that YackBacker is a self-righteous, egocentric dim-wit with no ambitions or goals for himself, so he sets himself against other people in a battle of words and waxes intellectual until he condescends his opponent into feeling like they're an idiot for believing anything that is different from his. Well, YackBacker, not everyone cares to sit around in their room and learn useless factoids about famous serial killers and drop those factoids on friends to make them think that you are smarter than you really are.
Granted, one person is not going to walk into Washington and make the Bush administration crumble or bring the fascist Fox News station to its knees. But a large enough group of people could or, if nothing else, they can educate enough people so that lying, irresponsible, morons like Bush will never get elected again. It's apathetic, complacent fuckheads like yourself that cramp the efforts of people who care about their country and who pay attention and who want to be apart of the solution and not the problem.
Remember one thing: silence is consent. If you think that what the government or what people are doing is wrong, don't keep your mouth shut, or else they'll keep on doing it.
Boast, keep it up. -
Didja hear that? That's the sound of hypocrisy. Don't try to convince right-wing nuts they're wrong, because they don't want to know. I mean to say, you have never seen an extreme wingnut change his mind before and you never will. Plenty of moderate, well-reasoned Republicans have seent the light, but the hateful ones never will. So don't bother with them. They could care less that their country has been hijacked by Neocons who don't give a rat's ass about Americans. They think if they align themselves with rich right-wingers, that somehow that wealth will transfer to them by osmosis. That explains why all of Rush Limbaugh's listeners are unemployed pedophiles who have nothing better to do but stew in their own bile. Have a nice night, ladies.
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Is "Islamofascist" part of your regular, everyday vocabulary? You must be a Zionist, then.
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i have still not seen one person explain fmr Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's testimony to the 9/11 Comission and why thids evidence was not included in the 9-11 Commission Final Report. watch it. comment.---------http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Vs7KNlpXU
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meaning of the word genocide? I know, I know, the evil "zionists", more commonly referred to as the joooos (we all know you purty up the word so as not to seem the anti-semite you actually are because your side is all about tolerance, meaning you tolerate what you want and everyone else should conform and naturally jooos are intolerable, did I get that all right?) Please equivocate to us the indiscriminate wrath of those jooos and their targeting of peaceful organizations such as Hezbollah with the selective, surgical strikes Hamas makes on Isreali military installations at crowded beaches, malls, etc. (because we all know Isreali military leaders are women and children who frequent the aforementioned bases) Please enlighten us. If you want to talk genocide I have no problem with genocide on Hezbollah, they brought in on themselves and only they can choose when and if it ends. (Spare me your jr. college history of Palestine thesis papers - they are a dime a dozen and bullshit justification for your anti-semitic leanings)
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Dear Lord Jesus please show mercy upon the innocent children dying the world over. Oh Lord, Jesus, Prince of Peace. Thank you for listening to this humble man.
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.... the last refuge of scoundrels. The tired, worn-out tactic of yesteryear. How original, Lando. If the Palestinians brought all this violence upon themselves, can you argue that the Jews brought the holocaust upon themselves, too? Using your logic, then yes, you can.
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By The Human League. History repeats itself ad infinitum. Poor Lebanon, will never know peace.
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Is this like your version of the "You might be a redneck" schtick? If so you're onto gold, market the shit out of that to your crazy conspiracy crowd. They'll eat that shit up and you'll be the posterboy of the month. However since I helped bring this out of you, I want some royalties. because not only am I a "zionist" I am a fuckin capitalist zionist (is that too many -ists?) the fuckin worst kind my man. I'll eat your babies then sell you back the body and charge you for the funeral my man. (I'm not even a jew, just a "zionist" can I still get away with that?) And, NO, islamofascist isn't one of my everyday regular words however since I know your type and you'll play semantics with the word "terrorist" I went with islamofascist because that is the best description available for the topic at hand. You're not the first retard I have encountered on this subject. You're side is weak, illogical, repititive - you would try and equate me with those who say all muslims = terrorist, which I do not believe, but its easier for your little mind to try and portray it that way. I don't want to upset your little world, I know how delicate it is, you have everything in the place you want it.
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You're losing your grip there, bud. Relax a little bit, your allegiance to right-wing Israel and disregard for anyone else is intact. No one will mistake you for a patriotic American or even a compassionate human being much less. Just enjoy the killing of innocent people on CNN or Fox News. "Islamofascist", Out!
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last time i checked, youre killing more civilians than enemies. with all that US funding and exceptionally shrewd israeli military acumen, you couldve simply sent some badass spielberg munich mossad agents and remove the hezbollah without harming a hair on anyone's head... "targeted killings," right Agent Zuzu? but that's not what you really want, is it.... you want em all gone..."the more innocent collateral damage the better" is foor certain your thinking.. because you hate every man woman and child among them with every cell in your protozoa... that is how you people are bred..that is your legacy. why else would you obliterate all those buildings and civilians including americans who were there? good luck .. and thanks a lot, "joooos" (to quote lando)...for speeding this planet towards armageddon. seek and ye shall find.
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I made specific effort to avoid the History of Palestine that shit has been "debated" to death on these talkbacks. I am talking about Hezbollah. But whatever equivocation you need to make to get your "argument" across. I get it man, seriously I do - the jews are evil, they are to blame for everything. Actually I forget the order now, what is it this month? I know its a rotating basis between Bush and/or the US governemnt and the jews. Its odds and evens right? And sometimes its Bushitleraburton in conjunction with the jews. But always the most acceptable, brief, general answer you can give is "zionist" its all encompassing really. **** Also i must say that I normally don't engage you fucking retards in your quest to take down the New World Order, its something I retired from long ago, and I am not one to run around yelling "racist" or "anti-semite" because I see that all the time on here and I hate it because most of the time its overreaction but seriously I know when you scroll back and read what you type, you don't see it, you are blind to it. Your world is justified to you and thats all that matters. But the rest of us, the ones with functioning brains see through your thin veil. Its entertaining, educational and a little tragic all at the same time. For that we thank you and ask nicely that you do not reproduce.
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Did he really say "targeted killings"? Yeah, the Israelis are great at surgical strikes, like when they bulldoze Palestinians' homes and bulldoze innocent American girls like Rachel Corry. And when they send missles into refugee camps. Hypocrisy, thy name is Israel.
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Friend, your hateful little mind has your sense of logic twisted to the point of psychosis. Yes, I do very much support the leftist and moderate, pacifist Jews of Israel who, 2 days ago, demonstrated in Tel Aviv to demand an end to the bombing of Lebanon. And fuck to hell the right-wing Jews who think their lives are worth more than any others. They're just like Nazis. Can't see the distinction? Want to call me names? Go right ahead, as if I care very much, my friend.
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for reinforcing just how special you guys are. I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit however lets just quickly recap A) I didn't call anyone in this talkback an islamofascist. B) I am surprised that you would take me out of context, i.e. genocide, to try and advance your "argument". C) "thanks a lot, "joooos" for speeding this planet towards armageddon" - and a special thanks to you my good man for bringing the "Blame Jews First and Always" theme full circle. You guys are true mindless zombies to your cause.
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for putting Israel first and everyone else be damned. Thank you for giving not one shit that Americans are among those being bombed in Lebanon. Thank you for calling us Islamofascists and then saying you didn't, because I know a hypocrite like you can't change. Thank you for calling us anti-semites, and then saying you hate when people do that, because, well, you're a hypocrite and a scoundrel who uses that stupid anti-semitism card all the damned time. And thank you for calling me a mindless zombie because that is what I aspire to be and I'm proud that my efforts have not gone unnoticed!
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itself and combat terrorism? I realize its easiest in your little mind to label and dismiss an opposite viewpoint from yours but please realize that the rest of us residing in here in reality do not operate on the same retared wavelength as you. *** Invoking the name of St. Pancake (give me a few minutes to wipe the tears) but isn't that why she died? Martyrdom, so ill informed pricks with internet connections like you can spread her message of veiled prejudice disguised as peace? You get an A for effort my friend.
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I'd be very surprised you're capable of shedding any tears for anyone. You'd lose your right-wing nut membership card if you did. Only Liberals shed tears for people, hence the term "bleeding heart". Combat terrorism? By bombing refugee camps and innocent Lebanese? Was Hitler combating terrorism too? Oh my, that puts a whole new spin on the Third Reich.
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Naw, I'd run as fast as I can out of that building like everyone else, but you won't see me locking the door behind me and enjoy watching everyone else burn. But you can go ahead and do just that because that' what hateful people do. Enjoy.
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the way you are able to read but who, exactly, did I call an islamofascist? I will freely admit to putting Isreal before Hezbollah, Hamas and other terrorist orginations. I willfully acknowledge being a hypocrite in regards to not normally agreeing with the crying foul and labelling on these talkbacks, however sometimes it's necessary and correct, as in your case. You want to whisper your anti-semetism, go ahead, you're going to be called on it and just because you hint at, dance around without explicitly saying "Fuck the jews!" doesn't make you any less of a douche.
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i have still not seen one person explain fmr Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's testimony to the 9/11 Comission and why thids evidence was not included in the 9-11 Commission Final Report. watch it. comment.---------http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Vs7KNlpXU
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you forgot to throw in your in your every ready 'moms basement' reference...when the opposition is just too much and your allies forsake you, you dont get points for intellectual snobbery and snide dismissals of info you cant disprove..The usa/israel's joint decision to go about it this way are circumventing international law. that makes them violators and outlaws, or in your leaders wown words, "evil doers". the wars of today between slect rogue gropus not whole nations..99 percent of civilians want no part of these groups.. all joos arent down with the zionism, and not all americans condone the lying murderous 9/11 Bushco regime. ridiculing theorists here certifies that you are--(it's not theory.. it's fact. inside job.. do you know how hot thermite is? and why tons of sparks of thermite were seen gushing from the windows moments before they fell?) and when is anti-islamism going to get equal billing? answer that..
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The least you could do is spell Israel right. And you call me retarded? I can see right through your fear. And it is the fear that runs through the heart of every right-wing Jew in existence. It is the fear that the veil of Jewish victimization will one day be seen for what it is, a useful tool to use when you have no moral ground to stand on. If you're a Gentile, you're anti-semitic. If you're a Jew, you're a self-hating Jew, a traitor. It's been done so much it's like a bad movie that won't stop playing on the same channel. But like I've said before, I don't care, because I'm not brainwashed. And it scares you.
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how pre-programmed your warped tiny insulated mind is. Its easy for you to label me "right-wing nut", its as natural and biological as that one, lone synapse you have firing. You are so quick to generalize my whole way of thinking on any political or social issue on this one disagreement we are having. You illustrate perfectly why no one can take you seriously. Can we just skip the foreplay of tired cliches now? Although you've covered most of them by now let me blow your whole little World O' Stereotypes out of existence. I am not white, I am not middle aged, I am not a republican, I am not rich, I don't own any guns, I loathe NASCAR and country music, I do not participate in organized religion. Is your tired little mind done spinning now? Now I'll let you get back to your regularly scheduled program, already, and always, in session.
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is spielberg directing?
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because thats all your conspiracy theories are worthy of - and barely that. ************************ Brokeback - so we are going to nitpick on typos now? Will you now turn that scathing attack on your ally zfisk? And you are right on one thing, you scare me, but not for the reasons you give.
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Jul 19, 2006 10:40:11 PM CDT
anchorite - your logic and reason is like kryptonite to
by lando griffin
these retards. There is no equivocation too grand because for those of us who didn't get the memo: jews are the new nazis.
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I can appreciate your passionate and reasoned defense of Israeli tactics, so I'll say this to you: In my view, Israel is indeed committing as egregious a crime on the Palestinian people as the Nazis did - not only to the Jews, but to other people too. Those people were part of the holocaust. The rhetoric of the extreme right-wing Jews (and Christian Zionists) is as despicable as the propaganda that came out of Goebbels' mouth. By saying that 50 Arab lives are not worth one Jew's finger - isn't that reminiscent of how Aryans viewed the Jews? Yes, it is. But don't take my word for it, or even those of my Jewish friends, who moved here to New York from Israel because they could not live there anymore and disagree with their government's actions. According to people like Lando, we're douches.
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"special" anchorite. That brings us to the next category "Douches, who misunderstand why exactly they are douches"
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wow...... is this not proof? check out the arrogance... and i thought sarah silverman was bad... dude you shouldve kept that.. that was too revealing of your mindset...your verbal missiles have no range.. you got them from the wrong dealer. not even Nic Cage could arm you enough. and griffin,anchorite's logic or reason is Craptonite. why not just morph into Pazuzu and bring it on.
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So your brilliant debating skills have devolved into calling me douche and retard. Okay. And your mother is a prostitute.
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Now we're Hezbollah and Hamas supporters? Are you fucking serious? Do you not read or do you just like to enter in the middle of a fray and throw sand in the air? What are you ... an instigator? A little right-wing sideline cheerleader?
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Tell you what, cheerleader. Just for calling me a Hezbollah and Hamas supporter, send me your sister to fuck in the ass first and then I'll tell you how I'd solve the problems of the fucking world. Little bitch.
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in a crack house. He's too simple. When he wants to talk seriously, let him start. And watch him disappear.
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"These guys are pissed because they aren't the chosen people. They are jealous of the Jews. Plain and simple." ----anchorite------------------People i give you exhibit A..They think they are the crown of humanity... which prompts one to surmise, what does that make the rest of us in their elite eyes? what else? collateral damage.
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Little cheerleader, I'd rather read the Frank Miller Spirit TB than scroll up to read your "exchange with Johnny Smith, a pretty stand-up TBer". Because I'm all about quality reading. And since your sister hasn't arrived yet, I'll let you start and tell us how you'd like to resolve the Israeli/Palestinian issue. I'll be over at the Spirit TB while you type some worthless shit on your keyboard.
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Let's hear your ideas first. Because calling someone a terrorist supporter ain't nice and you need to show good faith. If you're sincere about wanting to pose solutions, put them on the table and I'll do the same. Maybe one of us will win the Nobel Prize and go down in history and get some royalties and shit.
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like those two jewish "chosen" columbine kids, Harris and Klebold, who "ruled" their classmates with bullets and bombs? nobody chose your people for anything. not even god, who you despise the most.. i dont care how many einsteins, nobel prizes and kooky "bell curve" theories that declare the genetic intellctual supremacy of the ashkenazis..bottom line is your arrogance is going to fuck it up for everybody real fast. and its happening right now. how much is enough? jealous? of you? god help us..
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Because I'm not as funny as I should be. And since we're confessing, I'm jealous of blacks too because my dick ain't as big as Lando's mother is used to.
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You had real arguments? I Googled "Anchorite real arguments" and got no hits. What are your real arguments?
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Like a little bitch sideline cheerleader. He's either scratching his balls for a clue on how he would solve the Palestinian/Israeli conflict or he's searching Bill O'Reilly's blog for an answer. What a little bitch, and he won't send me his sister for a good ass-banging.
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I applaud your post if only for your effort. Most of it is a rehash of the brief history of Israel and your solution amounts to nothing more than what's been said by Israeli spokesmen on CNN for the past week. Which is no solution at all because you did not address the Palestinian issue at all. What you just said focused only on the current events in Lebanon and you offered not a shred of a lasting solution. But since you showed some effort, I'll give you some ideas of mine, while I wait for your sister to come for an ass-banging.
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Here are some of my ideas. The core of the problem is that the Palestinians had their land stolen from them. I'm of the school of thought - shared by many Israelis and Jews in the diaspora - that land for peace is the only solution. Only a rapid establishment of a viable Palestinian nation, on inhabitable land, can neutralize the cause that so many extremists have taken up against Israel. This backed by a full UN and Arab League force to protect the new borders will create a safeguard against any terrorist intervention. Once the Palestinians are no longer refugees being attacked and killed in camps (shades of the Third Reich, wouldn't you say), and have their own nation, what would be the cause of the terrorists? This is a solution that I did not propose - it is out there, being talked about and debated by many. But it's also the solution that is being called appeasement and it's a solution that is hated by the right-wing Israelis, who would rather occupy 1,000 acres with 100 settlers and 10,000 soldiers than give up an inch to Arabs. What sucks is I don't get a Nobel prize.
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I think I'll just talk to Yackbacker here. Even though he called me a Hezbollah and Hamas supporter, he's at least doing a good job of debating in good faith. You're just still calling me names.
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im sorry i really try.. but every time sarah silverman opens her mouth it's over.. you people are just too damm elitist and snide to us all.. youve had it too good for too long at everyone's expense.. which can only lead to the mother of all paybacks.. and all the movies, networks, papers, mags and blogs that you steered us with our whole lives wont help, because it is coming folks. the US-GB-ISR empire is due to catch a brick upside the head. happened in new york, happened in London, its like that classic genesis 'Domino' song lyric "theres nothing you can do when youre the next in line." israel is next in line. i think its going to be nuclear. Israel is next.. how can they not be after decades of stomping on their neighbors, fueling generations of wrath, parentless children and vengeance? how else would you learn? killing more of 'those'people won't be the solution. and dual citizenship is a cop out.. it allows you to have your cake and..woah, the hot body beverly hills short shorts contest PPV premiere is on?!
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Jul 19, 2006 11:56:34 PM CDT
Calling my mother a prostitute who loves big black cock
by lando griffin
is the closest you have come to any semblance of truth all night. I congratulate you sir.
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You and I have the same solution - the ultimate goal of a Palestinian Nation. However, we're working in opposite directions. You're proposing to neutralize Hezbollah first and then working on the timetable. Israel has been great - for the last 30 years - at delaying forever the establishment of a Palestinian nation. Everyone knows it would never happen unless it was forced upon Israel. Even a moderate prime minister like Yitzhak Rabin, who dared to negotiate with Arafat, was assasinated by his own people. Israel relies on eternal conflict to deny the Palestinians a nation. One car bomb, and what happens next? A full-on assault on thousands of Palestinians. Hundreds killed in days. And that just feeds into Hezbollah. You think you can wipe out terrorism by wiping out Hezbollah? Did you see Munich? What did Avner say at the end, after he had assassinated so many of the terrorists ... "What have we accomplished? We kill one, another ten take their place". That's why he moved to Brooklyn. That is why he rejected his government's actions. So you kill the cause that feeds the terrorists.
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I cannot even believe you acknowledged that your mother is a prostitute who loves big black cock. I mean, that's okay and all and whatever makes her happy, but it's just funny you would acknowledge it.
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Last post for the night and I'll continue tomorrow. Because your sister hasn't arrived for her ass-banging and I need to sleep. It doesn't matter in the least what Iran says about Israel. They could call for the destruction of Israel all they want but it's not going to happen by their hands. The Palestinians know that they are being used by Iran and Syria as proxy soldiers against Israel. But what if they were given their nation? What if they didn't have a cause anymore, to attack Israelis up close? You think Iran and Syria are going to use their own troops to invade Israel? Don't think so. Anyway, that's my take. In any case, Anchorite's still blathering about the Palestinians being Syrians and they don't deserve a state, so the Nazi mentality marches on. And ZFisk, I don't know what shit Sarah Silverman has said about Gentiles that got you so mad, but I saw some pics of her in lingerie and this goy boy would tap that kosher ass so fast her mother might make me convert.
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except wit, intellect, logic, humor, sarcasm, etc.
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Won't change the fact that you'll all die lonely virgins.
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my whole life I've had this chick always hanging shit on me. It's got violent from time to time. I try and fight back with the pen, but this chick has rounded up allies with her lies (tits and pussy) and these allies are big blokes too. It's gotten to the point where should I be sitting having a coffee minding my own business, and should she happen to walk past - 1 of two things will happen. She'll start shouting abuse and threats, or if she happens to be with one of these 'allies' they'll come and start pushing me around. It's a fascinating thing that has happened. And the most amazing thing is no one knows why it happenes. I just have to keep living my life and putting up with this shit. I do wish some times I was a fly on the wall of their private parties and such.
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used to bash the shit out of everyone. But he always had an excuse. 'He looked at me funny' 'He didn't let me play with his trucks' 'He told me I'm really big' 'he said I'm not supposed to be on this part of the oval'
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My secret to TB induced sexual activity is a rather simple technique I've developed that helps coax a woman into wanting to lay me whether she likes it or not - I print out TB's in which greasy nerds, such as yourself, debate about world issues instead of discussing movies, the thing this site is devoted to. I then provide said female with a copy of said Talkback. After she studies it, she is paralyzed with hopelessness at the state of the male gender and is given no choice but to convince herself that I am the only man worth mounting on the planet.
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I understand that debating middle eastern politics is not the most effective way to cause change on this planet,however I also believe that any intelligent debate with a group of people may indeed set in motion new opinions that will eventually change the way people think about a certain issue. So while I dont agree with your suggestions, Yackbacker, i respect your ability to present them, and believe that this discourse may one day lead to change. Not necessarily changing the issue that we are currently discussing, but one can never know, when the contents of an intellgent debate may reappear in ones life. So Yackback, Dont lose faith in the power of discourse and debate. So when you ask "You guys really think you can make a difference?" Id say yes, it could happen, this debate costs nothing and harms no one, so it could make a difference.
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The jewish gov is filled to the brim with assholes. Two people get kidnapped, and are being used as ransom, so they blow up half of fucking lebenon. Even hitting civilian targets! Assholes, those fucktards are no better then the those they fight. BYTW I am not an anti semite, I dont agree with american policy either, but i dont want to see the country explode because of it, same goes for Israel.
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The propaganda campaign for war, for Israel
by Leon Fisher, Unknown News
July 19, 2006
Despite the failure of the American military to subdue Iraq, the pro-Israel elements in Washington and in the US media are conspiring to enlarge the war to Syria and Iran.
The propaganda campaign is in full swing as the fighting in Lebanon escalates. The mainstream American media, as well as the President and both major political parties, are once again portraying Israel as the victim of axis of evil member Iran, and to a lesser degree, Syria.
The mainstream media is continuously reminding us that Israel has the right to defend itself with Israel's political shills in Washington echoing their every word. They tell us that Israel is only reacting to the kidnapping of their soldiers in Gaza and southern Lebanon, and the Lebanese and Palestinians people must take blame for refusing to take action against Hamas and Hezbollah. This is of course total nonsense.
It is not Israel which is being occupied by Hamas and Hezbollah, but Israel, whose military forces have been illegally occupying Gaza, the West Bank, and until recently, southern Lebanon.
The major news organizations will attempt to link the long range rocket which hit Haifa with Iran, but make no mention of US-made and paid-for Israeli F-15 and F-16 fighter bombers and helicopters laying waste to Beirut and Gaza.
It is obvious that this latest violence in Gaza and Lebanon has been prepared well in advance in Tel Aviv and in Washington to influence public opinion in favor of war with Iran.
With a few new players, this is still the same crowd that lied to the world about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, justifying the illegal and immoral war on Iraq. The same unceasing propaganda also accuses Iran of developing nuclear weapons but remains silent about Israel's own large nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons arsenal.
Bush and the rest of the Washington lunatics are determined to go to war with Iran no matter what the consequences, and along with their fellow conspirators in Tel Aviv they are chomping at the bit. However, there is a real possibility that an expansion of the war can backfire, as we are witnessing in Iraq. This new war can result in disaster for all.
Committed to a long and costly war/occupation, the end result will most likely be heavy casualties and economic ruin for America, Israel, and Iran, leaving the rest of the Middle East in chaos for decades.
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... who's to say whom that serves? The Regressives' record on security is reflected in things like Homeland Security's partisan porkfest of vulnerable terror targets database, which leaves out "Times Square, the Empire State Building, the Brooklyn Bridge [and] the Statue of Liberty", but includes "Old MacDonald's Petting Zoo near Huntsville, Ala., a bourbon festival, a bean festival and the Kangaroo Conservation Center in Dawsonville, Ga." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13822662/ The list also includes 718 mortuaries and 25 golf courses (Carl Spackler still hasn't been killed or captured, after all), an insect zoo, and a host of other absurd pieces of "critical infrastructure". But the money to protect all of those quaint pieces of Americana had to come from somewhere, so security funding for Boston, NYC and DC is to be cut by 40%. Meanwhile, the Taliban is making a comeback in Afghanistan, and Iraq is in chaos & under growing Iranian influence in the south. Maybe the GOP should be careful about invoking the memory of 9/11 themselves this election season. Republicans considered strong on defense? How 80's. Stone didn't make the JFK-style conspiracy movie that some laughingly predicted, but that doesn't make the movie a neo-con campaign ad. Tell you what, though: if they nail Bin Laden in October, I'm fastening the chin strap on my tinfoil hat and leaving it that way at least through 2009.
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I believe the phrase is something along the lines of
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For those of you who haven
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The right-wing Israelis are WORSE than Nazis. Because killing Palestinians by destroying their homes (with them still in them), shooting and bombing them, uprooting their farms so they can't produce food, placing entire populations under siege to starve them to death from food and medicing, killing humanitarian workers like Rachel Corry, and bombing Lebanon over the fake pretense of trying to reclaim 2 soldiers makes them worse than Nazis. Because the Nazis never claimed to be victims, they were at least honest about their evil. I'm glad at least that the moderate Jews are trying to protest their government's actions. Look at it this way, if you can get your head around it - the Nazis were bad, but certainly not all Germans were. Oskar Schindler helped save as many Jews as possible. I can only hope the real Jews stand up for human rights and save the Palestinians. Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't it be nice to have no sins to atone for?
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Only a scoundrel, with no moral arugment to present, has to resort to charges of racism. If I was such an anti-semite, why they hell do I like dating Jewish girls so much? Why do I endure the outright animosity from their parents at the sight of a goy boy tapping their daughter's ass? Because moderation makes the world go 'round and nuts like you and your ilk make life miserable.
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Jul 20, 2006 6:50:27 AM CDT
Anchorite - Yes, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians
by brokebackcowboy
If we follow your logic of saying that Palestine never belonged to the Palestinians because they are the same people as those in Syria, then it's like invading North Dakota and expelling North Dakotans and saying they should move to Montana because they're all Americans. Logic like that - even Goebbels could not roll out propaganda that good.
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Must be acknowledged by the majority of the Palestinian people. All we can do is broker a land-for-peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians and quickly establish a nation for them. Once this is done, peace will ensue. Naysayers can harp all they want about how dangerous Iran and Syria will be, etc. ad nauseum, but if this doesn't happen and they refuse to stop killing the Palestinians, then Israel will be know as the evil worse-than-Nazi thugs they're behaving like. Like I said, r-w Israelis don't want peace - they want eternal conflict because they think they can starve the Palestinians to death and just get rid of them by dying them off. God's Chosen people? Hardly.
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am I banned? Looks like all is going as expected here.
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So if the Jews occupied the Holy Land thousands of years before the Palestinians, they have a right to come back and reclaim that land as theirs? In that case, the primates who occupied the Holy Land hundreds of thousands of years before want their land back. And the inter-galactic aliens who occupied that land millions of years ago want it back too. Idiot.
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I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit ZFisk. He has his opinions and none of it resembles the outright racist ramblings of Anchorite, who compared the Palestinians to African-Americans, who in his view have a fear of failure and so are doomed to it. But what do you expect? Evil doesn't recognize evil in the mirror. It sees whatever it wants to see.
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"WORLD TRADE CENTER is about one of the downright scariest, most terrifying moments in U.S. History."
Hmm. More terrifying than Antietam? Pearl Harbor? Normandy? Tet? Harry's problem, like a lot of other left wingers, is that he thinks history began when he was born.
"No blame assigned?" Well, I'm happy that Stone apparenty hasn't inserted his wacko conspiracy theories, but by not mentioning who actually did it, I guess World Trade Center is a glorified Irwin Allen style disaster movie, but with better special effects. -
Israel is a proxy for western civilization, fighting a battle against an enemy whose ultimate goal is to covert the world to Islam or submit to its rule. Israel is a thorn in the side of this Muslim (misplaced) superiority complex - a non-Islamic state smack dab in the middle of Muslim-land. To make matters worse, every time the surrounding Muslim nations tried to destroy Israel by force they were utterly humiliated - a deep psychological wound that will never go away while Israel still exists. So they have had to change to more subversive tactics, infiltrating the western nations with huge numbers of immigrants and enlisting our own useful idiots (bleeding heart liberals, mostly) to their cause by casting themselves as the poor defenseless victims in a class struggle against the rich, imperialistic oppressors. Unfortunately it has worked to some extent. Just read some of the posts in this talkback. Sad.
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Yes, those wily Palestinians who are having their homes bulldozed, farms razed, families abducted, and villages and refugee camps attacked by gunships and missles are infiltrating the Western world with their brainswashing. They're not really doing enough of a job since people like you still want them dead and out of the way. You view these human beings as nothing more than a nuisance. I'd much rather be a bleeding heart Liberal than a hating-spewing Nazi wannabe like some of the posters in this TB. A hate-spewing Nazi wannabe who also claims to be a victim too - the worst kind of hypocrite to ever grace this planet.
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... every time you look at images on CNN.com or other news sites. This is where I lose rage and fury and am left with nothing but despair. The pictures. Believe me, I want to rage at both sides: I think Israel exhibits a self-righteous, fundamentalist, boderline-evil psychosis every bit as dangerous as that demonstrated by other Middle Eastern nations, and I think the Arab countries are sadistic, backward sandpits that don't really practice what they preach (otherwise, they'd have blown up all the oilfields years ago to foil the Great Satan and its allies... but methinks the bastards in power like the gold more than the Word of God). See? I can hate. We can all hate. It's easy. It's the human way. That hatred runs so fucking deep, you could just reach out and smash and kill every balalala-ing person of color dancing in the street in the Middle East, couldn't you? Every "Zionist" and Muslim alike. Let them ALL perish in the fire. It's easy to think that way, and it's even encouraged (even here, among cinephiles, whom I've always considered a helluva lot more enlightened that your average knuckle-dragging joe)... Hate away, neighbors! But then... you see the imagery. You see these little kids weeping, covered in blood, some of them missing arms and legs. They look like kids living on your block, don't they? Big eyes, sweet, bewildered faces... You see mothers, grandmothers, cradling bodies. They look like women you see in the local mall, don't they? You look at these images, and you don't see terrorists. You don't see murderers. You don't see genocidal madman. You see human beings. You see your own mother, your own four-year-old son. ............ Goddammit, we cannot continue to dehumanize one another this way. We cannot reduce human beings to a faceless mass called "enemy." I know all the arguments: those bloodied children and mourning parents exist because of this faction's ideology or that government's transgressions... I know all that. And I wonder what the fuck happened to all their hearts, all their souls. And to ours. You remember Milosevic misquoting scripture: "I do love my neighbors. I love to kill them"? Remember Idi Amin? Remember Hitler and Stalin? We're marching in that direction again. Sliding toward the charnelhouse. How does it happen? How does any God let it happen, if such an omnipotent being exists? And how do any of us let it happen, who call ourselves children of God, or citizens of the world, or just human beings? Lotta good folks in the world. Lotta bad ones, too. But they didn't start out bad. They started out little kids playing in the streets. And then the bombs fell.............. I'm all outa rage. Nothing left but despair. I watch my son at play, and I wonder who could ever drop a mortar on him, even by accident (because they were aiming for me). It has to end. I have no clue how. But it has to end. Better we're all consumed than this madness continue another hundred or thousand years... Peace.
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That is all. I hope you and your son take a day off and go to the park. Peace, Salaam, Shalom.
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Whats the big fucking deal? Do you guys actually know any Jews? If you did, you'd probably be cheering The Nazis on, hoping they bomb the living shit out of em. Where I come from The Jews are boorish thugs who mainly roam around in gangs and hurt innocent people. Man, theres whole bunch of my "country" men who are Jews are they're are bitching about our goverment not getting them out quick enough. I wish our goverment would just get them rounded up in one spot and give Hitler the co-ordinates so they can just blow them all to tiny meaty chunks. Be doing my country and world a huge fucking favour. Fuck them. I hope Hitler wipes Every single Jew fucker off the face of the earth by the end of this conflict. We don't need their inferior genetic makeup on our green earth.
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Too much hate this early in the morning. Hope you Arab-haters have a nice day. Shalom.
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I don't need your fucking endorsement. You're an attention-seeking asshole. Fuck off.
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I have to go to work but I'll be back tonight, to your great dismay. I'll give you some advice though. You're making Jews look bad. So bad that even the Beastie Boys can't make up for your shit. So stop hating so much. Embrace your Arab brothers and make a call out for peace. You'll feel much better and you won't feel like such a foul pig hypocrite at Yom Kippur. Salaam Alekem.
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...a tragedy mostly of their own making. As the saying goes
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It's always someone elses problem. It's always someones elses doing. Everyone is to blame for everything. These guys over here diserve it while those guys over there have the right to dish it out. The bombs are falling, the body parts are flying.... and here we are yelling at each other accross the ponds about how we're all right and you're all wrong. C'mon guys, if there's any constant to these conflicts its that they are widening, and getting more muddled. Very soon, as sparce as this group is, we wil lfind ourselves with agressors destroying us. And so will continue the harsh words of how we are diserving of it. Pease to you all. Peace to all arabs and to all jews. Peace on our leaders and peace on our brothers, sisters and cousins. An end to this madness is all any of us need seek.
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Although they won't be acknowledged by many, your words were heard and appreciated by me. I can't believe some of the things I've seen typed by both sides of this pro-/anti-Israeli argument. I've touched on this subject with anchorite before and it never goes anywhere. Because ultimately he (and many like him) feel that the uncontested security of the Israeli state in the Middle East is not only an absolute moral right (and I'm sorry, but I don't see how one can simply disregard Palestine in coming to that conclusion) but is critical to the U.S.'s plans for the Middle East. While I might even be obliged to agree with both of those points (not the absolute moral right of Israel to extinguish any force that opposes them, but certainly that they have the right to exist), the whole thing calls into question the U.S.'s plans for the region. Should we have plans for hte region? Isn't our uncompromising support of Israel against all comers in the region one of the major elements fueling hatred of our nation and our people in that region? Isn't it one of the leading causes of anti-U.S. Muslim terrorism? Even if we believe the state of Israel is a necessary thorn in the side of the Muslim world, how much of our energy and effort should be devoted to irritating the Muslims? And if we believe that the absence of the Israeli state (an element that actually seems to unify these Muslim nations against common foes) would result in the Muslim world tearing itself apart, wouldn't that be a quicker way to further our agenda in the region without a lot of cost in American lives? Not that I condone that approach, but if the U.S. government were more straightforward about its intentions in the region, I'm betting it could find both rational and irrational support among the voting populace for just about anything it wanted to do over there. I've long said that if Bush were honest about his reasons for going to war in Iraq (or if his people were honest with him about it so he could relay the information to us), if the people had been told it would be in the country's best financial and political interests to topple Hussein's regime and install a U.S. friendly democracy, they probably wouold've gotten the support they needed for the effort anyway (I wouldn't personally have backed it, but I know a lot of folks in this very talkback would've). If the agendas were laid bare and the motives were made known, I'm not saying things would unfold any differently...but I doubt we'd have anyone celebrating the deaths of anyone else based on their religious beliefs or countries of origin. That's just reprehensible. I have no love for Bush, but I didn't say "Shit! Maybe next time" when he nearly choked to death on a pretzel. And that wasn't just because I'm terrified of what Cheney might do as President. It was because you don't celebrate or hope for someone else's death. You don't cheer for wars. Also, the notion that the Palestinians don't want things to change in their region for fear of having to actually establish their own nation is asinine. They want to be shot and blown up? They want to live in fear and desperation? Nobody wants those things. If they wanted to play the pitifully oppressed, they wouldn't fight back. And whoever asked if someone else would step aside and let others flee a burning building first in order to determine the relative value of human lives, I'm sad that you went there with the smug assumption that the person you were testing would fail and reaffirmed my general lack of faith in human nature. But, fortunately, the very review that precipitated this talkback is a clear reminder that there are those who would not only let others leave first, they'd turn around help those who couldn't make it out on their own. The event that inspired this film is replete with real-life, documented examples of just that sort of selflessness...that sort of heroism. And I promise you that those people weren't concerned with whether they were helping Jews or Muslims or Christians or Americans or visiting foreign nationals. I promise you they didn't stop to wonder about those things or poll people on their backgrounds or political leanings. The very fact that people like this exist gives me hope. In fact, when reading talkbacks like this, it may be the only thing.
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.... seem to think that being the word 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' mean the same thing. Also, even though I can't condone the terror tactics being carried out by the Lebanon based Hezbollah, I can neither understand or support the Israeli governments continued oppression of Palestinians. It is also worth noting that the State of Israel was founded on violence, both from extreme Arab and Jewish terrorist organisations.
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In light of the following, Harry might want to rethink his review of World Trade Center:
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/CalThomas/2006/07/20/world_trade_center_is_a_world_class_movie
Sounds like Stone is a closet right wing, fundementalist. I mean, Jesus appearing to one of the policemen buried in the rubble? Mind, I love it. -
Well, the enemies of Israel rarely make the distinction between Israeli and Jew. To them they're the same thing..... Continued oppression? The Israelis would want nothing better than to wash their hands of the Palestinians but every time the
Israelis turn their backs the Palestinians kick -
i have still not seen one person explain fmr Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's testimony to the 9/11 Comission and why this evidence was not included in the 9-11 Commission Final Report. watch it. comment.---------http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Vs7KNlpXU
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idiots start going refresh-crazy and posting the same argumentative shit in different words. But if the Israel/Lebanon can't be talked about, tell me why? This has a feel of "man behind the curtain", that man being Mahmoud Ahmoudinejad(sp?). Let's not waste the next few months or years of time and round up all the sides now. This is how it'll break down, like a game. Iran/Syria/Hezbollah/Hamas V Israel/U.S.A. GAME ON!
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to compare 9/11 to the death star explosion which in reality, was anti-climactic.
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OH-MY-GOD! Do you mean that there are discrepancies in how people recall the events of 9/11? Is that even possible? I mean, shouldn
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Here's a question for you to go along with DocPazuzus great question...If some radical group was reigning rockets down upon your little village there, would you A) Sit back and practice restraint, hoping they'll go away? OR B) Demand some instant punitive measures against those who seek to harm you, your family AND your neighbors families peace?
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and move along. Please refer to the Cut And Paste trophy I awarded you earlier in the thread.July 19 1:54 Re read. Ponder. And realize no one gives a fuck about your fantasy world.
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I hope you all had a nice day bashing the Arabs, 'anti-semites' and self-hating Jews. Doc, I can't believe you pissed all over yourself because I called you nuts. Hell, I've been called a Hezbollah and Hamas supporter by Yackbacker and even still we were able to conduct a very civil debate. So thank you too for saying that I am calling for the destruction of Israel and lump me with Hezbollah. ZioNazis like you excel at ridiculous hyperbole. Should I actually end up marrying a hot Jewish girl, I might even be a converted Jew. So then you can call me a self-hating Jew too. Have fun at it. But just remember this: I don't care what people call me. That also goes for my future mother-in-law. Pfft.
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Your sister still hasn't come over for her ass-banging. I thought you said she likes herself some anal. I promise she'll love this shegetz. Maybe now I'll have to bang Doc's sister. I just hope she ain't too fugly.
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Truly excellent questions. I have to eat dinner soon so I'll make it short. The answer is that you fight back. Yes, you fight back. Now if you were a Palestinian, and the Israelis have created an actual aparteid state of Israel (while hypocritically calling it a 'democracy' - but that's only if you're a right-wing Jew) and classified your people as less-than-human, bull-dozed your homes, shot and killed your family members and friends, razed hundreds of thousands of acres of your farmland so you cannot subsist on your own and your food and medicine supply is at the mercy of the Israelis, and you were put in refugee camps and the Israelis would periodically come in and bomb your camps just to remind you that you are lower than animals in their eyes, and they abducted your family members and friends in the middle of the night for no reason but to terrify your people, and they send in helicopter gunships to shoot you, what would you do? Would you sit quietly and take it? Or would you fight back? Damn, I hope I answered your question. That's a lot of typing and I am hungry. I could use a good Pastrami on Jewish Rye with mustard. Yumm.
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Still not answering the question, are you? What a surprise...
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You Zionazis posted so much hate speech today I can't even find your question. And send me your sister so I fuck her ass. Cuz we know Jewish girls like a good Shegetzin'.
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I know you want my attention so much because your overbearing Jewish mother raised a mama's boy, but I was busy watching CNN. How exactly am I behaving like a coward? By what criteria are you applying to me to say that? Or do you just like to name-call because you're a hateful little shit?
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I love Jews? That's a stupid statement. How can you love a race of people? Just the thought of feeling anything beneficent towards people like you, DocPazuzu, Yackbacker, Cantankerous, and whatever other ZioNazi is crawling around this TB makes me want to vomit. I can embrace Jewish culture and friends though, and I do. I can embrace the good part of Jewish teachings and beliefs. But I'll tell you what - Jews like you, you sure sour the whole fucking experience. Asshole.
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typical american arrogance to hate this movie because it reminds you that no one fears you anymore.
north korea? no fear. iran? no fear. iraq? same thing. you have an impotent president who has so fucked over the american reputation, that i am surprised that an american can go to their own toilet without being kidnapped and murdered.
every american who shits on this movie without seeing just proves to the world what we all think of americans. -
Of course you're ZioNazis. Worse than Nazis. You're hateful little men who want to eradicate Palestinians, who have no regard for human life. The kicker is it is impossible to have an intelligent debate with you. My life doesn't revolve around the Arab/Israeli conflict. But people like you, the conflict is your fucking existence. You can't get your head away from it. It consumes you, and when you come across someone like me, who has empathy for the Palestinians, the Lebanese, all you can do is lump me in with Hezbollah. It's pathetic. Because once the words are exchanged, there is no way you can justify what Israel has done, and is doing - committing long-term genocide. What else can I say to someone who calls me something as ridiculous as a Hezbollah sympathizer? I say something equally ridiculous. Because you don't deserve a better response. You deserve a worse one. ZioNazi.
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I know why Zionazis like you are 'trashing' me. Because you hate Palestinians and I don't. And you can't convince me to hate them no matter how much you demonize and dehumanize them. Because you put right-wing Israel ahead of America. Because I call people like you out as the evil, hateful provocateurs you are. There is no talking to you. You want to kill off the Arabs, then get on a fucking plane and go to your homeland. Get the hell out of America.
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Just because they dare to stand up against their own extermination and won't march quietly to their deaths. Rejoice, for they embody the resilience of the human spirit.
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Boiler-plate hate-speech is the providence of hateful people like you. If you can call someone who advocates peace rather than war, life rather than genocide, a 'disturbed person', then seriously - there is no talking to you. You can wallow in your hate all you want. Do you know what you and your fellow Zionazis have accomplished in this silly TB? You have very effectively demonstrated the ugly workings of right-wing Jewish thought. Ugly stuff that is usually buried in fringe websites like masada2000.org/selfhate.html. Go on hating everyone - me, Arabs, Palestinians, Liberals, Jesus, and Ronald McDonald for all I care. I need a break, this is just so stupid. Until the next TB.
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No matter what lies you want to spit out, there is no way you can hide the fact that Israel has been killing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and continue to every day. If that does not fit your definition of genocide, then taht is seriously your problem. As for you, Yackbacker, I am assured to have had a more moral education than yours. I'll go to sleep soon, and I'll sleep well knowing I have not advocated death to anyone. Even on you and Anchorite.
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It was very revealing. I'll be sure to speak up more. Thanks for the confirmation.
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for all that discount the conspiracy talk as baseless and made up from a few kooky websites and rely on history,,,i guess ur all just believing the "history" that the goverment tells u and what the news reports...you are a complacent, ignorant american, one of the many ignorant assholes that elected george bush in the first place...if you even looked at the first 10 minutes of the film "loose change" then u would watch the whole film and question everything we were told in the following days after 9/11...lots of the film is actual news footage and interviews that aired live that day...nothing dubbed, airbrushed or nothing...
if there is any reason to see this movie, at least u know it actually happened, not like the fictional heroes on flight 93....what a joke that was, they reference that in the movie too, but personally i think it got shot down by the goverment, but u cant tell ur tax paying citizens that u shot down fellow taxpayers now can u ? so they cook up this heroic bullshit that the FDNY is still milking into the ground....so the other reason to see this movie is to see how two cops survived getting fucked over by our goverment trying to justify a war in afghanistan and then convienently say iraq was involved as well...... none of u should be surprised , especially whoever said he refers to history, he should check his history, he may be interested to know how the goverment tested the effects of high radiation on its own unsuspecting citizens back in the 40s or 50s.... knowing it would probably really fuck em up....so yea our goverment really loves us and would never lie to us......the way the goverment is lying to its own citizens, they might as well show bush burning an american flag, cuz what hes' been doing is effectively that anyways
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If you try to take out your chip, he will mesmerize you. But seriously, why are you nice boys wasting your time with these chowderheads?
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profanity ? coulda been alot .worse, especially from me....how is it astounding ? apparently u dont disagree with me...but like so many others u question my verbalization, "who needs vowels?" sorry if this is the punctuate correctly or ur dumb post...but as i can tell from a prior post to brokeback(horrible name) that u need detailed proof of something or a comment from the news or ur president for something to become fact for u..... can anyone prove that the goverment was behind, or at least partially involved, no...can anyone prove that israel is a selfish little country that doesnt want to share land and continue to rape and murder palestinians, no...... doesnt mean it hasnt happened....u should really question what u believe and why u believe it..... just a thought
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with sane people. And these folks clearly don't qualify. For instance, I am waiting for the Lebanese government to ask Hezbollah to stop shelling Jews and Arabs from their country. Oh, wait. Fantasy moment! Jews surrender now to the genocidal maniacs, or you are fascists! Rinse and repeat. That's right, now I remember. On another note, I will probably see Lady, but now I'm not looking forward to it due to all of the bad reviews. But I did like The Village, so maybe I will enjoy this film. I kind of like unravelling the logic in the movies (and I found Village to be achingly sweet), but Night is getting in the way of his movies, like Mori said.
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usually he is trying to say something. Most movies aren't, or they think they are but then aren't really sure what they are saying. Or they are just inconsistent and don't think the audience will notice or care. Night's movies seem to know exactly what they want to say, even if perhaps the execution is somewhat off. And I really, really enjoy that kind of thing. Because everything has a meaning. He personally annoys me, and I wish he would not insert himself into his movies.
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He was asked the question, but I think he said you can read whatever you want into it, and certainly he could see how some people could get that. What also stuck out for me was that people lie often to conceal pain and think they are doing themselves and others a favor, when inevitably you can't escape it. It is really another hindrance, not freedom, and the lie ends up controlling you and others. And that genuine love (sacrificial, unselfish kind) is able to overcome fear. Her character completely matures over the course of the film from a girl into a woman. Interesting little movie, although clumsy in places.
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about violence. I mean, it blames it on the retarded guy. :/ But it is unnerving to discover that Brody's character is motivated by envy and cruelty. I can't imagine it would last after Ivy's return, she and Lucius are both too honest.
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but then you could say it was a result of social circumstances because he did not follow the rules (no fear because he was simple) and went into the forest, so he knew the deception the elders were playing with the other villagers and mimicked it, but without the pretend.
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You are bursting my pseudo-intellectual bubble.
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(in LA to be exact) and I am familiar with wierdos. Not to mention Jews! Up to my eyeballs, oy!
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I don't think Ledger is hot or anything, but I do think he's an interesting actor. And I kind of like offbeat choices for these kinds of parts. Now, if they use his looks and try to fetishize the Joker in any way, I will be enormously unhappy. However, the closer we get to a "realistic" Joker vs. a "realistic" Batman, the more uncomfortable I get. The Joker is really sort of a sick character, and I do not relish a Killing Joke Batman 2, etc. The Animated Joker strikes the right balance, and I'm not sure how much beyond that I would want them to go. Which, of course they will.
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he leads your mind, not showing everything. Taking you to the edge of the cliff and then Batman steps in just before he can push you off. But Hollywood likes to show everything. None of that boring suspense stuff.
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The real waste was Ken Watanabe. He should've been the main villain and Neeson fishfood. Ra's Al Ghul my rear. Although, he had the funniest line, "I see you've taken my advice a bit LITERALLY." in regards to the costume. But I do agree with you about the relationships and Bruce's core characterization. He's not a psycho. He is a very kind person who is deeply wounded and struggling to find that delicate balance between venegance and justice. So he dresses up like a bat to aid the oppressed? Who hasn't? Anyway, more fantasy in the next one now that the realism (yawn) is established. Ledger has that great gigantic grin and is actually a very subtle actor. The Joker is all about wild mood swings. I could see him pulling it off.
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really the Joker (fun performance, though). He actually was not unpredictable enough to me. Hamill's animated Joker is the guy to copy. I just picture him as your typical washed-up loser comedian.
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I like the origin where he's pushed into crime by the mob and then he falls into the vat because of the Bat. The Joker is a diabolically intelligent person who thinks he is funny when he is not and wastes all his time trying to be a comedian. So he blames the audience (everyone) for not getting the joke. He wants to set up a stage and then kill people over and over again for not thinking he's funny. When he obviously is smart enough to be doing better things, he doesn't. And then he fixates on Batman, because Batman prevents his stagings and isn't intimidated enough to laugh at his jokes.
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Batgirl. It's just mean spirited. Did you read this script? It was online for awhile. Anyway, I thought it was too dark.
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I don't think Batman has to create the Joker for the premise to work. In fact, I never buy that whole "you created me" line. Because, no he didn't. All that psycho stuff was already there just waiting to get out. However, they have created a Batsignal at the end of the film and are talking about escalation, so it would not be difficult to suggest that Batman had created the Joker between that gap in the time right up to the ending with Gordon.
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But don't go kill off Robin and Batgirl. That's just disturbing. All of the Schumacher films were garbage. I can barely stand to watch Jim Carrey and whatever Tommy Lee Jones is attempting there. Despite being equally stupid, I think Arnold and Uma are more watchable.
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I am campaigning to remove Doug Jones as Abe Sapien in Hellboy 2 and have him played by Jeremy Piven instead.
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the movie. Way more atmospheric. They played it WAY too safe. Although, Perlman is perfect as Hellboy without a doubt. If you get a chance you should peek at one in a bookstore sometime.
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http://www.darkhorse.com/zones/hellboy/downloads.php?did=13
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did you just write that?
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have to go to work tomorrow, so I am calling it a night. Oh, and reading some of that Hellboy stuff now, I realize it may be offensive if you are religious. I hadn't read it in several years myself. Just wanted to let you know so as not to offend.
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THE TOP 40
THE TOP 40
REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001
... An outline in simple talking points ...
Version of May 22, 2006: This overview is in development. If you use the search function with key words, you will discover that 911Truth.org is home to articles backing virtually every point made below. Much of the basic research is available at the Complete 9/11 Timeline (hosted by cooperativeresearch.org), the 9/11 Reading Room (911readingroom.org), and the Spitzer petition and complaint (Justicefor911.org). For physical evidence discussion, see Point 7.
THE DAY ITSELF - EVIDENCE OF COMPLICITY
1) AWOL Chain of Command
a. It is well documented that the officials topping the chain of command for response to a domestic attack - George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Myers, Montague Winfield - all found reason to do something else during the actual attacks, other than assuming their duties as decision-makers.
b. Who was actually in charge? Dick Cheney, Richard Clarke, Norman Mineta and the 9/11 Commission directly conflict in their accounts of top-level response to the unfolding events, such that several (or all) of them must be lying.
2) Air Defense Failures
a. The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights.
b. Timelines: The various responsible agencies - NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission - gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable.
c. Was there an air defense standdown?
3) Pentagon Strike
How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation's capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?
4) Wargames
a. US military and other authorities planned or actually rehearsed defensive response to all elements of the 9/11 scenario during the year prior to the attack - including multiple hijackings, suicide crashbombings, and a strike on the Pentagon.
b. The multiple military wargames planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York. If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigations avoid the issue? There is evidence that the wargames created confusion as to whether the unfolding events were "real world or exercise." Did wargames serve as the cover for air defense sabotage, and/or the execution of an "inside job"?
5) Flight 93
Did the Shanksville crash occur at 10:06 (according to a seismic report) or 10:03 (according to the 9/11 Commission)? Does the Commission wish to hide what happened in the last three minutes of the flight, and if so, why? Was Flight 93 shot down, as indicated by the scattering of debris over a trail of several miles?
THE DAY - POSSIBLE SMOKING GUNS
6) Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001? How many hijackings were attempted? How many flights were diverted?
7) Demolition Hypothesis
What caused the collapse of a third skyscraper, WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane? Were the Twin Towers and WTC 7 brought down by explosives? (See "The Case for Demolitions," the websites wtc7.net and 911research.wtc7.net, and the influential article by physicist Steven Jones. See also items no. 16 and 24, below.)
FOREKNOWLEDGE & THE ALLEGED HIJACKERS
8) What did officials know? How did they know it?
a. Multiple allied foreign agencies informed the US government of a coming attack in detail, including the manner and likely targets of the attack, the name of the operation (the "Big Wedding"), and the names of certain men later identified as being among the perpetrators.
b. Various individuals came into possession of specific advance knowledge, and some of them tried to warn the US prior to September 11th.
c. Certain prominent persons received warnings not to fly on the week or on the day of September 11th.
9) Able Danger, Plus - Surveillance of Alleged Hijackers
a. The men identified as the 9/11 ringleaders were under surveillance for years beforehand, on the suspicion they were terrorists, by a variety of US and allied authorities - including the CIA, the US military's "Able Danger" program, the German authorities, Israeli intelligence and others.
b. Two of the alleged ringleaders who were known to be under surveillance by the CIA also lived with an FBI asset in San Diego, but this is supposed to be yet another a coincidence.
10) Obstruction of FBI Investigations prior to 9/11
A group of FBI officials in New York systematically suppressed field investigations of potential terrorists that might have uncovered the alleged hijackers - as the Moussaoui case once again showed. The stories of Sibel Edmonds, Robert Wright, Coleen Rowley and Harry Samit, the "Phoenix Memo," David Schippers, the 199i orders restricting investigations, the Bush administration's order to back off the Bin Ladin family, the reaction to the "Bojinka" plot, and John O'Neil do not, when considered in sum, indicate mere incompetence, but high-level corruption and protection of criminal networks, including the network of the alleged 9/11 conspirators. (Nearly all of these examples were omitted from or relegated to fleeting footnotes in The 9/11 Commission Report.)
11) Insider Trading
a. Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally - including but not limited to "put options" placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London.
b. In addition, suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks.
c. Initial reports on these trades were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicago Board of Exchange).
12) Who were the perpetrators?
a. Much of the evidence establishing who did the crime is dubious and miraculous: bags full of incriminating material that happened to miss the flight or were left in a van; the "magic passport" of an alleged hijacker, found at Ground Zero; documents found at motels where the alleged perpetrators had stayed days and weeks before 9/11.
b. The identities of the alleged hijackers remain unresolved, there are contradictions in official accounts of their actions and travels, and there is evidence several of them had "doubles," all of which is omitted from official investigations.
c. What happened to initial claims by the government that 50 people involved in the attacks had been identified, including the 19 alleged hijackers, with 10 still at large (suggesting that 20 had been apprehended)? http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-worldtrade-50suspects,0,1825231.story
THE 9/11 COVER-UP, 2001-2006
13) Who Is Osama Bin Ladin?
a. Who judges which of the many conflicting and dubious statements and videos attributed to Osama Bin Ladin are genuine, and which are fake? The most important Osama Bin Ladin video (Nov. 2001), in which he supposedly confesses to masterminding 9/11, appears to be a fake. In any event, the State Department's translation of it is fraudulent.
b. Did Osama Bin Ladin visit Dubai and meet a CIA agent in July 2001 (Le Figaro)? Was he receiving dyalisis in a Pakistani military hospital on the night of September 10, 2001 (CBS)?
c. Whether by Bush or Clinton: Why is Osama always allowed to escape?
d. The terror network associated with Osama, known as the "data base" (al-Qaeda), originated in the CIA-sponsored 1980s anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan. When did this network stop serving as an asset to covert operations by US intelligence and allied agencies? What were its operatives doing in Kosovo, Bosnia and Chechnya in the years prior to 9/11?
14) All the Signs of a Systematic 9/11 Cover-up
a. Airplane black boxes were found at Ground Zero, according to two first responders and an unnamed NTSB official, but they were "disappeared" and their existence is denied in The 9/11 Commission Report.
b. US officials consistently suppressed and destroyed evidence (like the tapes recorded by air traffic controllers who handled the New York flights).
c. Whistleblowers (like Sibel Edmonds and Anthony Shaffer) were intimidated, gagged and sanctioned, sending a clear signal to others who might be thinking about speaking out.
d. Officials who "failed" (like Myers and Eberhard, as well as Frasca, Maltbie and Bowman of the FBI) were given promotions.
15) Poisoning New York
The White House deliberately pressured the EPA into giving false public assurances that the toxic air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. This knowingly contributed to an as-yet unknown number of health cases and fatalities, and demonstrates that the administration does consider the lives of American citizens to be expendable on behalf of certain interests.
16) Disposing of the Crime Scene
The rapid and illegal scrapping of the WTC ruins at Ground Zero disposed of almost all of the structural steel indispensable to any investigation of the collapse mechanics. (See also item no. 23, below.)
17) Anthrax
Mailings of weapons-grade anthrax - which caused a practical suspension of the 9/11 investigations - were traced back to US military stock. Soon after the attacks began in October 2001, the FBI approved the destruction of the original samples of the Ames strain, disposing of perhaps the most important evidence in identifying the source of the pathogens used in the mailings. Were the anthrax attacks timed to coincide with the Afghanistan invasion? Why were the letters sent only to media figures and to the leaders of the opposition in the Senate (who had just raised objections to the USA PATRIOT Act)?
18) The Stonewall
a. Colin Powell promised a "white paper" from the State Department to establish the authorship of the attacks by al-Qaeda. This was never forthcoming, and was instead replaced by a paper from Tony Blair, which presented only circumstantial evidence, with very few points actually relating to September 11th.
b. Bush and Cheney pressured the (freshly-anthraxed) leadership of the Congressional opposition into delaying the 9/11 investigation for months. The administration fought against the creation of an independent investigation for more than a year.
c. The White House thereupon attempted to appoint Henry Kissinger as the chief investigator, and acted to underfund and obstruct the 9/11 Commission.
19) A Record of Official Lies
a. "No one could have imagined planes into buildings" - a transparent falsehood upheld repeatedly by Rice, Rumsfeld and Bush.
b. "Iraq was connected to 9/11" - The most "outrageous conspiracy theory" of all, with the most disastrous impact.
20) Pakistani Connection - Congressional Connection
a. The Pakistani intelligence agency ISI, creator of the Taliban and close ally to both the CIA and "al-Qaeda," allegedly wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta just prior to September 11th, reportedly through the ISI asset Omar Saeed Sheikh (later arrested for the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was investigating ISI connections to "al-Qaeda.")
b. This was ignored by the congressional 9/11 investigation, although the senator and congressman who ran the probe (Bob Graham and Porter Goss) were meeting with the ISI chief, Mahmud Ahmed, on Capitol Hill on the morning of September 11th.
c. About 25 percent of the report of the Congressional Joint Inquiry was redacted, including long passages regarding how the attack (or the network allegedly behind it) was financed. Graham later said foreign allies were involved in financing the alleged terror network, but that this would only come out in 30 years.
21) Unanswered Questions and the "Final Fraud" of the 9/11 Commission:
a. The September 11th families who fought for and gained an independent investigation (the 9/11 Commission) posed 400-plus questions, which the 9/11 Commission adopted as its roadmap. The vast majority of these questions were completely ignored in the Commission hearings and the final report.
b. The membership and staff of the 9/11 Commission displayed awesome conflicts of interest. The families called for the resignation of Executive Director Philip Zelikow, a Bush administration member and close associate of "star witness" Condoleezza Rice, and were snubbed. Commission member Max Cleland resigned, condemning the entire exercise as a "scam" and "whitewash."
c.The 9/11 Commission Report is notable mainly for its obvious omissions, distortions and outright falsehoods - ignoring anything incompatible with the official story, banishing the issues to footnotes, and even dismissing the still-unresolved question of who financed 9/11 as being "of little practical significance."
22) Crown Witnesses Held at Undisclosed Locations
The alleged masterminds of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed (KSM) and Ramzi Binalshibh, are reported to have been captured in 2002 and 2003, although one Pakistani newspaper said KSM was killed in an attempted capture. They have been held at undisclosed locations and their supposed testimonies, as provided in transcript form by the government, form much of the basis for The 9/11 Commission Report (although the Commission's request to see them in person was denied). After holding them for years, why doesn't the government produce these men and put them to trial?
23) Spitzer Redux
a. Eliot Spitzer, attorney general of New York State, snubbed pleas by New York citizens to open 9/11 as a criminal case (Justicefor911.org).
b. Spitzer also refused to allow his employee, former 9/11 Commission staff member Dietrich Snell, to testify to the Congress about his (Snell's) role in keeping "Able Danger" entirely out of The 9/11 Commission Report.
24) NIST Omissions
After the destruction of the WTC structural steel, the official Twin Towers collapse investigation was left with almost no forensic evidence, and thus could only provide dubious computer models of ultimately unprovable hypotheses. It failed to even test for the possibility of explosives. (Why not clear this up?)
25) Radio Silence
The 9/11 Commission and NIST both allowed the continuing cover-up of how Motorola's faulty radios, purchased by the Giuliani administration, caused firefighter deaths at the WTC - once again showing the expendability, even of the first responders.
26) The Legal Catch-22
a. Hush Money - Accepting victims' compensation barred September 11th families from pursuing discovery through litigation.
b. Judge Hallerstein - Those who refused compensation to pursue litigation and discovery had their cases consolidated under the same judge (and as a rule dismissed).
27) Saudi Connections
a. The 9/11 investigations made light of the "Bin Ladin Airlift" during the no-fly period, and ignored the long-standing Bush family business ties to the Bin Ladin family fortune. (A company in which both families held interests, the Carlyle Group, was holding its annual meeting on September 11th, with George Bush Sr., James Baker, and two brothers of Osama Bin Ladin in attendance.)
b. The issue of Ptech.
28) Media Blackout of Prominent Doubters
The official story has been questioned and many of the above points were raised by members of the US Congress, retired high-ranking officers of the US military, the three leading third-party candidates for President in the 2004 election, a member of the 9/11 Commission who resigned in protest, a former high-ranking adviser to the George W. Bush administration, former ministers to the German, British and Canadian governments, the commander-in-chief of the Russian air force, 100 luminaries who signed the "9/11 Truth Statement," and the presidents of Iran and Venezuela. Not all of these people agree fully with each other, but all would normally be considered newsworthy. Why has the corporate-owned US mass media remained silent about these statements, granting due coverage only to the comments of actor Charlie Sheen?
GEOPOLITICS, TIMING AND POSSIBLE MOTIVES
29) "The Great Game"
The Afghanistan invasion was ready for Bush's go-ahead on September 9, 2001, with US and UK force deployments to the region already in place or underway. This followed the failure earlier that year of backdoor diplomacy with the Taliban (including payments of $125 million in US government aid to Afghanistan), in an attempt to secure a unity government for that country as a prerequisite to a Central Asian pipeline deal.
30) The Need for a "New Pearl Harbor"
Principals in US foreign policy under the current Bush administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and others) have been instrumental in developing long-running plans for worldwide military hegemony, including an invasion of the Middle East, dating back to the Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. They reiterated these plans in the late 1990s as members of the "Project for a New American Century," and stated a clear intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of "regime change." After 9/11, they lost no time in their attempt to tie Iraq to the attacks.
31) Perpetual "War on Terror"
9/11 is supposed to provide carte-blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual "War on Terror," against any enemy, foreign or domestic, that the executive branch chooses to designate, and regardless of whether evidence exists to actually connect these enemies to 9/11.
32) Attacking the Constitution
a. The USA PATRIOT Act was written before 9/11, Homeland Security and the "Shadow Government" were developed long before 9/11, and plans for rounding up dissidents as a means for suppressing civil disturbance have been in the works for decades.
b. 9/11 was used as the pretext to create a new, extra-constitutional executive authority to declare anyone an "enemy combatant" (including American citizens), to detain persons indefinitely without habeas corpus, and to "render" such persons to secret prisons where torture is practiced.
33) Legal Trillions
9/11 triggers a predictable shift of public spending to war, and boosts public and private spending in the "new" New Economy of "Homeland Security," biometrics, universal surveillance, prisons, civil defense, secured enclaves, security, etc.
34) Plundered Trillions?
On September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld announced a "war on waste" after an internal audit found that the Pentagon was "missing" 2.3 trillion dollars in unaccounted assets. On September 11th, this was as good as forgotten.
35) Did 9/11 prevent a stock market crash?
Did anyone benefit from the destruction of the Securities and Exchange Commission offices at WTC 7, and the resultant crippling of hundreds of fraud investigations?
36) Resource Wars
a. What was discussed in the Energy Task Force meetings under Dick Cheney in 2001? Why is the documentation of these meetings still being suppressed?
b. Is Peak Oil a motive for 9/11 as inside job?
37) The "Little Game"
Why was the WTC privatized just before its destruction?
HISTORY
38) "Al-CIA-da?"
The longstanding relationship between US intelligence networks and radical Islamists, including the network surrounding Osama Bin Ladin. (See also point 13d.)
39) Historical Precedents for "Synthetic Terror"
a. In the past many states, including the US government, have sponsored attacks on their own people, fabricated the "cause for war," created (and armed) their own enemies of convenience, and sacrificed their own citizens for "reasons of state."
b. Was 9/11 an update of the Pentagon-approved "Project Northwoods" plan for conducting self-inflicted, false-flag terror attacks in the United States, and blaming them on a foreign enemy?
40) Secret Government
a. The record of criminality and sponsorship of coups around the world by the covert networks based within the US intelligence complex.
b. Specifically also: The evidence of crime by Bush administration principals and their associates, from October Surprise to Iran-Contra and the S&L plunder to PNAC, Enron/Halliburton and beyond.
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...people like zfisk/homewrecker and brokedickcowboy is that the more you keep them talking, the more their masks begins to slip and what was once concealed beneath becomes evident. When it comes to both of these freaks, the longer an argument progresses the more they begin to make blanket statements about people they previously claimed not to be prejudiced against, in this case Jews. Not only that, but they label EVERYONE they're arguing against as Jews, implying that their ethnic/religious makeup is a detrimental quality which by definition makes them evil. Brokedickcowboy also refused to address one single point in my post where I demolished his claims, nor did he answer the question as to whether HE (not the Palestinians) supported Israel's right to exist in the Middle East. As for his claims of fucking Jewish girls in the ass, well, it's either a lie blatantly used to shock opposing talkbackers (good luck with that) or he really does prefer yentas for that particular practice. So, he's either an insecure virgin with an overriding desire for anal sex in general, or he habitually indulges in hate-fucking, much like German neo-nazi leader Michael Kuhnen who in 1991 died of AIDS contracted from having sex with little boys in Algeria.
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...Notice, if you will, his predicted vanishing act after the light of truth was shone upon him.
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Well, I won't have access to a computer during the weekend so they will be ignored by me even if I had wished otherwise. (Pssst! zfisk/homewrecker! This is your big chance to ooze back into the talkback! Just think of it -- two days with no threat of having your ass handed to you by me. Go for it, chief.)
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Or do they spend all night discussing M. Night Shymalan and Batman Begins? Anyway, I already answered Doc's questions long ago in greater detail - but here is the short answer. Do I support Israel's right to exist? Stupid question to begin with, because it's not a question ordinary people ever think about. Yes, but its existence has to be ratified by the majority of the Palestinians within the context of a negotiation of the establishment of a viable Palestinian nation. Until that happens, the Palestinians will continue to defend themselves from this genocidal treatment of their people. How could they not - they are human beings, no matter what the right-wing Israelis do or say about them. If they do broker a treaty and solution, part of it has to include a formal apology for the genocide as well as reparations to the Palestinians. Israel would be fortunate to escape a war crimes tribunal. The goal is to restore the welfare and dignity of the Palestinians, and then Israelis can live in peace. And yes, I have dated many Jewish girls. They prefer guys who are not so neurotic and overbearing. And you should picture me at seders too - I've been to quite a few.
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Got a date with a Shiksa tonight. Have fun discussing Lady in the Water.
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So in other words, if the Palestinians say "no" to the existence of Israel, you feel Israel should be eradicated, right? You also need to look up the word "genocide".
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...you have once again failed to address the points I brought up which destroy your standpoints and expose you for the historical ignoramus and political cretin you are. A shiksa, huh? I'll bet that takes some of the fun out of the hate-fuck.
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Like I said, you're a complete asshole and there's not a lick of difference between you and brokedick. Fuck you.
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If you're just baiting me, then you're an asshole. If you actually believe that your jewishness somehow makes you immune to charges of racism or prejudice, then you're an asshole. Basically, you're an asshole.
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If I prayed, jayjew, I would pray for your soul (and for that/those of whatever nasty person/people influenced you to this way of thinking). Do you think there's any difference between your hate-filled rantings against the Lebanese and those Hitler spouted against the Jews? You're talking about extermination and genocide of HUMAN BEINGS. Are you saying you could cheerfully walk up to a Lebanese child and shoot him in the head? Because, if that's so, then you're saying here, aloud in text, that jews can be just as cruel, soulless and evil as everyone else, and you're actually justifying and perpetuating the anti-Semitism that is running rampant again across the globe. I simply cannot believe AICN TalkBackers can breed this kind of disgusting, racist, murderous thinking. We're supposed to be geeks and fanboys, not goose-stepping, mob-joining Nazi thugs!! Grow up, let go of the hate, and start acting like a responsible human being. You nasty little shit.
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I withdraw the comment. Trying to change my own helpless rage into something else these days. Doesn't always work so well. I apologize, jayjew. It's just this: I don't care who you are. I don't care what religion or philosophy you espouse. But you must realize this: if it's not based on love and respect for life, it's false. It's a lie. Peace.
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When did I ever say I was Jewish? You're absolute scum and a bigot.
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You went one step too far in that last post. It's obvious now that you're nothing but a fucking troll who gets off on sparking off racist flame wars. How fucking pathetic are you, anyway? Jesus, what a cunt.
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Lets not beat around the bush with this. you or anyone else in this atrocious excuse for a 'talkback'. Israel is doing some BAD shit. They must be held accountable. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14069.htm now don't give me any shit about past talkbacks, and forget your sprouts about other people revealing themselves of their masks the more they talk 'pazuzukungfoohustleeviljesus'..... you know what I'm talking about. there is some BAD shit going on in this world right now and there just isn't any room for debates that start with "what about Israels right to exist". This is bullshit what Israel is doing and it's not going to be pretty in the coming days. Forget this talkback my friends -- For the public oppinion of the world has a very direct and focused hatred of what Israel is doing, and no amount of 'anti-semite' finger pointing is going to change that. This shit just isn't candy any more. The end results are going to be so bad for us all. including you and your high horses. again http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14069.htm
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...and BAM! The return of Ginger Twit. *** jayjew...what the fuck man? Go back and read your previous posts and think about what you're saying. Here is a money quote regarding the Israeli army: "They are trained professionals and will make sure these things(lebs) don't suffer while they are being put down." Anybody want to step forward and tell me who and what that sounds like?! Get fucked.
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Doc - I now believe zfisk/homewrecker is avoiding any serious direct confrontation (i.e you) out of fear of being banned again. I think he's afraid that if he runs his mouth for too long, he'll get the boot. All the more reason to hold him accountable.
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I'll concede most of your points, particularly about the terrorists' habit of hiding among civilians -- something my dad saw firsthand in Vietnam and still speaks of with quiet fury. Good post, sir. Thank you. Good weekend, everyone.
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Jul 21, 2006 1:27:51 PM CDT
And the award for Bravery in the Face of Utter Futility
by excaliburffolkes
goes to - IT'S A TIE! - anchorite and YackBacker; for their work in trying to have a reasonable conversation with brokebackcowboy over the past few days. Congratulations, gentlemen. (DocPazuzu, I would have included you as well, except I know you already have a Lifetime Achievement award in this category.)
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For stepping squarely onto the bullseye and exposing youself for the moral relativist that you are. Now sit back and watch your Hezbollah buddies get pulverized whilst they hide among the innocent population. I know I will.
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Your comment on Israel having to "restore the dignity of the Palestineans" i hilarious. YOU CAN'T RESTORE SOMEBODY'S DIGNITY FOR THEM. One can only do that for themselves. This reveals quite a lack of wisdom and ignorance of human nature on your part. But no suprise there...you've revealed yourself to be a rather hate-filled intolerant fuck.
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...the Palestinians are victims of Israel. When the fact of the matter is- ANY nationalist groupthat wants to get it's own country CAN. Slovenia is independent. Slovakia is independent. East Timor is independent. ANYWHERE can be independent. The reason why what's happened in Gaza (putting their hopes in Hamas) and Lebanon has nothing to do with Israel, but because of the pathologies of the people. And the U.N has been complicit in their neglect as well.
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1. DocPazuzu:"When did I ever say I was Jewish?" 2. yackbacker:"and if we're lucky he'll promise to sodomize --->OUR
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I knew you would pop your head in here well after any timely relevance. What a coward.
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to be owned!
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when i engaged you 'chosen fools' earlier where were you? shutup, bagelmouth.. go get your scores on cnn and who's "winning"... so many usernnames, props and setup-knockdown strawmen like jayjew, brokeback,etc.. and no brains to remember them all. to think Knowles pays you for this..
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And not for the last time. "Baglemouth". Could you be more ugly and insulting? You really are a miserable, paranoid fucking cunt. And the fact that you continue to espouse your multi-username conspiracy that operates with false MODS and "strawmen" TalkBackers shows just how much of a sniveling coward you really are. HERE IS THE CHALLENGE: prove it. Prove to me and everybody else here that we've all got multi-usernames. I'm calling you out foolio. Contact the owners of this site and prove it. I can't wait to see your reply.
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that are easily knocked down. He on the other hand, will bring serious, rational and well-thought out clarifications rooted in sound moral ground. Then again, maybe not.
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Sounds to me like zfisk/homewrecker has achieved the ironic state of Orwellian pacifism: he hates the West, his own country, and everyone associated with the two. Which of course would be the Jews. Which brings me to my over-labored point: zfisk is an anti-semitic hate monger. The funniest part about it (if there is one) is that he is also a COWARD. Notice that when he is directly confronted or challenged, he conveniently disappears. Seriously, Doc Pazuzu is right. As we can see, he has slinked away yet AGAIN. But I've already sounded my little "call-to-arms" regarding that miserable little imp. So, I have no qualms about taking him to task over any issue...no matter where I find him on these boards. -- Are you reading zfisk/homewrecker? Good. Now, put that in your blog and shove it up your ass.
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You got it right Mr. Gaius. If not a hatred of the West, certainly a pessimism. A pessimism that eventually ends up in paralysis. Because every decision you can think of leads to outright defeat. So there's no sense in trying and it's perhaps best we stop doing anything and it'll all be over because it's probably our fault anyway. That pessimism is what bothers me most about the West. That we've lost our sense of confidence in our culture. I mean, when you actually have a trend that says dissent is MORE patriotic than assent, you have a culture that may not be equiped for the long hard fight..Which incase you haven't been paying attention, is exactly what the West has on it's hands.
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Changes do and will occur over time. Not much anyone can do about that. However, to blame oneself (or some sort of all-powerful cabal) and no longer hold any individual or group accountable for their OWN actions leads to paralysis (as you've so put it.) And dissent is great. But dissent is the first stage of recognizing a problem or trend. There is another step that comes after that though, it's called: "What are you gonna do about it?". Folks like zfisk don't care for that stage. That means they would actually have to do something meaningful. They're more content with lobbing their self-righteousness at everyone in order to justify their views and feelings about the world.
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by moral relativism. When you can't even agree on what is true, you are done for (or, on your way down at the very least).
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aicn mod motto: "deception via multiple usernames"
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to burn off zfisk's paranoia.
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Arrrrgggghhh!!! My eyes are burning.
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way too far. He is Reed Richard's intelligent in this treatment. Batman is a master strategist/planner, not a super genius. Batman would get his behind handed to him if he were not prepared at all times.
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and thought, "hmmm, I write as good as this guy" so I knew it was all downhill from there. I mean, he had Bruce Wayne's dad say "nymphomaniacal hamster" to Alfred in casual conversation. It kind of read like Doc Savage and less like a modern Batman.
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know he's not vapid. Bale is of course very good at it as well.
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If there's anyone out there who can disprove that we did 911 please send links-
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That Borat, he cracks me up.
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Thanks for the link to informationclearinghouse. It's grotesque to see, but sites like that clears up the smokescreen Israel puts up around the atrocities they are committing. No one destroys a whole country and kills hundreds of innocent people because 2 of its soldiers were kidnapped - not killed, but kidnapped. Not unless they are psychotic and devoid of any moral capacity.
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Article by Uri Avnery at http://www.counterpunch.com/. The latest Israeli soldiers were kidnapped, but they were most likely sacrificial ruses. Read the entire article, but pay attention to this paragraph relating to a historical incident in Gaza: *** "And indeed there was: Palestine.Two weeks before, the Israeli army had started a war against the population of the Gaza Strip. There, too, the pretext was provided by a guerrilla action, in which an Israeli soldier was captured. The Israeli government used the opportunity to carry out a plan prepared long before: to break the Palestinians' will to resist and to destroy the newly elected Palestinian government, dominated by Hamas. " ***
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but evil. Zionism is not a part of Judaism. It is a racist phenomenon and many good Jews avoid it like the plague. Here's a link to an article by Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann, who studied the Zionists and revealed their role in inciting Hitler and bringing about the holocaust itself. Sheer insanity ... http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaliebermann.cfm
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This is what Rabbi Liebermann said: "On the basis of their similar ideologies about ethnicity and nationhood, Nazis and Zionists worked together for what each group believed was in its own national interests. This is just one example of the Zionist movements' collaboration with Hitler for the purpose of possibly receiving jurisdiction over a minute piece of earth, Palestine ..." So when I call certain people ZioNazis, it's not a silly insult. It is being accurate. Zionists not only commit genocide like their Nazi counterparts, but they also betray their own Jewish brothers and sisters. That is why Yizhak Rabin, the moderate PM, was assassinated. They are psychotic.
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To everyone who believes 9/11 happened because of a perfect convergence of factors - the installment of Bush as President (recall that he actually lost to Gore), his deep links to the Neocons like Cheney, Jeb Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Fox (his own cousin worked for Fox News), I say this ... the timing was perfect for the Neocons to take over and start their vision of World War IV (WW III in their eyes was the Cold War). If the Zionists (of which all the Neocons are) could collaborate with Hitler, what limitations would you envision them having? None.
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You probably are already aware of this site, but in case not ... bitterlemons.org .. Very good site with daily views from 2 Palestinians and 2 Israelis. If you're into this stuff, that is.
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You're such an ass, Harry.
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Thank you, zfisk/homewrecker, for proving what a spineless moron you are by popping up as soon as I stated I'd be unable to respond for a couple of days. It does beg the question, however, how that fits in with your multiusername lunacy if it's just you and me in the talkbacks. The extra delectable bonus was the return of GingerTwit. It's nice to know that I've tamed him so much that he will only show up when he KNOWS I'll be unable to respond to him. As for his pleading with me not to mention his earlier posts -- what could he possibly mean? Is it that he's stated that he doesn't believe that the death toll of the Holocaust is phony ("exaggerated")? Or could it be his infamous proclamation that "recent studies have shown that the gravity of the moon is six times that of the Earth's". Obviously GingerTwit is an individual of immense integrity, believability and honor.
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...I suppose you've discovered that your only ally here is GingerTwit, the dumbest talkbacker to ever post on AICN. Apparently, zfisk/homewrecker's paranoid mania has reached the point where he believes that even YOU are one of the gay Jewish multi-username plant agent's aliases.
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That should of course read "Is it that he's stated that he believes that the death toll of the Holocaust is phony ("exaggerated")?"
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Check out his update! He's linked to a neo-nazi revisionist website run by Michael A. Hoffmann II. Among the goodies on the site is a pic of Hoffmann together with infamous neo-nazi Ernst Z
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Proud. Now if you would call me an anti-semitic brokedick, that would make my day. I don't view Gingertwit as an "ally", I've never conversed with her before. Maybe you assume that everyone behaves like you and your insomniac Zionazi friends?
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While browsing the site he linked to, a number of his bizarre antics come into focus, like his championing of both(!) Christian and Muslim fundamentalism, his homophobia and hatred of Jews as well as the venom he's aimed at the Da Vinci Code. The site talks of, among other things, efforts to codify Holocaust denial into a "christian faith" thus giving it an air of respectability. Zfisk/homewrecker is nothing but a pure Nazi, plain and simple. It's there for all to see, courtesy of a link he himself provided.
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How did 9/11 help Israel? That is more a valid and relevant question to Americans than some schmuck asking me "Do you support Israel's right to exist". Well, the Neocons (Cheney was a member, and it was he who was in charge of selecting the VP position, and he chose himself, then brought in Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, et al) had grand plans that hinged on what they called "a catalytic event such as a new Pearl Harbor" to get the American people to support their agenda. That agenda being? The invasion of Iraq. They thought if America would occupy Iraq, it would create a sandwich effect on Syria (which lies b/w Israel and Iraq), make America a buffer between Israel and Iran, and put pressure on the entire Middle East. The goal of that agenda? To give Israel security by using American force in the region. That is why Israeli soldiers were present at Abu Ghraib, according to the testimony of America soldiers ... they were training them on methods of torture. And why would Bush and non-Neocons go along with it? Because it had the bonus of giving them control over the oil resources in Iraq. L. Paul Bremer basically privatized the entire Iraqi oil industry, handing control over to the highest bidders. The perfect convergence of factors led to the tragedy of 9/11: Bush taking the WH, Cheney and the Neo-cons putting themselves in power (because none of the neo-cons were ever elected into any office) so they can execute their agenda. Anyone supporting them is either Anti-American or an Israeli puppet.
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Jul 23, 2006 9:30:36 AM CDT
Gingertwit: Don't let Doc bait you with the Holocaust
by brokebackcowboy
because the Holocaust issue is irrelevant today. There are 2 reasons why. The Zionists themselves collaborated with the Nazis to bring about the holocaust. And the holocaust issue has been used for the last 50 years as a smokescreen to cover up the Zionists' attempted extermination of the Palestinians. Give 'em an A for effort, they really are trying harder than the Nazis did.
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What do you think about the reviews of Lady in the Water? I know that most movies are vanity projects for their creators, but I don't feel like spending $20 plus popcorn and soda to watch Shyamalan's most blatant self-promotion yet. From what I've read so far, I can't even believe the studio said okay to this film.
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You're right -- the question of Israel's right to exist or the truth of the Holocaust is not as relevant as how it's answered by people like you. See, I have no problem criticizing many Israeli policies and I fully support the Palestinians' claim to a nation of their own. I don't need to preface either opinion with a "why, that's an odd/irrelevant question". You and your cohorts either ignore the question or hem and haw endlessly before answering it because, let's be honest here, you don't actually support Israel's right to exist. That being the case, there is simply NOTHING Israel can do which would appease you. You view the nation as an abomination, an "illegal" entity, which should be eradicated. But, at the same time you whine and moan about Israel's "genocide" and its unwillingness to negotiate with certain organizations. The latter is the most blatant example of your hypocrisy. "Israel must be destroyed! But first they must show themselves willing to negotiate!" Kiss my ass.
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...apart from your ludicrous claim of Jews collaborating with Nazis to bring about the Holocaust, your absolute refusal to address any of the points I brought up about the region's history (and indeed the history of Nazi Germany) proves how ignorant you are and how thin the sheen of professed rationality is which conceals your true prejudices.
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I didn't claim it. Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann researched and examined it. You should read about it at jewsagainstzionism.com before you knock it. You might even see the light. I can see why you're pissed off about my "whining abount genocide". Because Palestinian lives are worth nothing to people like you and you'd rather everyone just look away while Israel has their way with them. That ain't gonna happen, friend. Israelis wouldn't arbitrarily kill off millions of cattle or livestock, but it has a whole industry dedicated to killing off human beings. Psychotic.
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Perhaps you didn't read my post closely enough: I SUPPORT the establishing of a Palestinian state. I also CONDEMN the treatment of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and the West Bank.
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Awesome, just awesome, brokedick. You cry out against "right-wing Israelis" and then quote as truth the loony rantings of ultra-right-wing zany orthodox Jews on a demented website. You rock.
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You're closer to the demented truth than you know. I've actually read islamic fundamentalist websites where they claim that the massacre against Armenians wasn't carried out by true Turks, but by... *drum roll* ... Jews!
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It scared me too when I discovered the truth from Rabbi Liebermann. What was frightening was the extent the Zionists were and are willing to go to fulfill their nihilistic visions. But I hope our discourse has been helpful to you in opening your eyes to the atrocities being committed by right-wing Israelis. Keep on reading, and we'll leave a light on for you at the Motel 6.
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Stop reading fundamentalist websites. They do nothing but warp your brain, as has obviously been done already. I'm glad you support the Palestinians and condemn the Israeli genocide in Gaza and the West Bank. Perhaps you also believe they should get out of there since the Israelis are occupying those territories illegally.
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Again, if you had read my posts you would have seen that I support the creation of a Palestinian state consisting of Gaza and the West Bank (and even part of Jerusalem). As opposed to you, I believe in a two-state solution. Also, I speak plainly about my opinions and don't couch them in Orwellian doubletalk or seek to erode the meaning of words (classic fascist tactic) in order to use them against groups of people or to pave the way for future atrocities. Furthermore, you have dodged virtually EVERY point I've brought up to destroy your idiotic claims. You and zfisk/homewrecker are both the same -- politically motivated, insidious advocates of the destruction of Israel. GingerTwit may advocate the same, but he's about as sharp as a bag of wet hair, thus nowhere near clever enough to employ the sleazy methods you and zfisk/homewrecker do.
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DocPazuzu, I've had many conversations with friends and acquaintances who are Israeli immigrants. They moved here, wanted to settle here, because they did not feel safe in Israel and disagreed with their country's actions. The question for you is this. There is no denying the link between the Neocon Zionists in the Bush Administration and the destruction they have wrought on our country. As an American Jew, you need to come up with an answer to the main question and then act accordingly. Are you an American first, or an Israeli-supporter first? If you're an American, then you need to question the Neocon links and protest their effect on our country. If your primary allegiance is to Israel, then you need to go there and get your hands dirty too. Otherwise you're a hypocrite.
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I've been witness to some fairly harsh arguments between liberal Israelis and right-wing Jews. As a Gentile, it was very illuminating. Of course I sided with the liberals. The thing about it is, is that no rational Jew can reconcile Israel's actions with their own religious teachings about pacifism. This is why they are all torn up about it and it's sad. It is sad to see good-hearted Jewish people being called self-haters (you could read the media when Munich came out - even the Steven Speilberg was not immune to these dirty attacks on his character).
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You said ... "Also, I speak plainly about my opinions and don't couch them in Orwellian doubletalk or seek to erode the meaning of words (classic fascist tactic) in order to use them against groups of people or to pave the way for future atrocities." ... you just about summed up the right-wing media. Bravo!
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Since I'm not an American Jew (impossible to grasp, I know) I'll defer the question to someone who fits that description. In the meantime, keep talking. Your prejudices become more evident with each post. Nice work, by the way, yet again dodging virtually every point I brought up earlier. Tool.
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Extremists on both ends of the political spectrum end up on common ground the further to the left and right you go, and you are definitely an extremist, brokedick.
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Apologies, I mistook you for Anchorite and Yackbacker. They both live in upstate New York. See how hard it is to keep track of you all? I do hope you keep reading my posts because it's clear I am one of the least prejudiced people on this TB. I would say Roguewriter gets that award and I admire him for his posts.
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You're an utter slimeball who uses revisionist history and blatantly false arguments to further a cause with prejudiced overtones. You hilariously ignore posts which debunk your points at every turn and use sexually charged insults instead of addressing the issues. You've got nothing, brokedick, absolutely nothing.
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that extremism on the left is the antithesis of rightist extremism. Right-wing extremism is based on hatred and a completel disregard for life and the environment. Extremism on the left is the opposite - it is based on a total respect for human life (oh those damned bleeding hearts) and our environment. That is why Ann Coulter can call widows of 9/11 victims, "whores". Because right-wingers lack morality. You would never hear anything remotely similarly hateful from the left. And I'm proud of that. Peace out, I'm getting some lunch!
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"Extremism on the left is the opposite - it is based on a total respect for human life (oh those damned bleeding hearts) and our environment." Just like in North Korea, Cuba and the former Soviet Union. Like I said, keep talking. Also, please explain to me how my support for a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank makes me a "right-wing extremist".
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N. Korea, Cuba and the former SU are totalitarian dictatorships. Liberals embrace democratic ideals. In fact, right-wingers support dictatorships - but only if they have mutual interests.
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is not that I've "got nothing, absolutely nothing". It's that I have something. And that scares you, as you so honestly said.
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I am so proud of the tens of thousands of peaceful Israelis marching in Tel Aviv against this psychotic invasion of Lebanon. See www.haaretz.com ... too bad there are sick fucks on the other side chanting ""A good Arab is a dead Arab," and "If only a rocket fell on you.""
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Don't flatter yourself -- I have never claimed to be frightened of you. And you quite clearly said "Extremism on the left is the opposite - it is based on a total respect for human life (oh those damned bleeding hearts) and our environment." ...... A liberal is NOT a left-wing extremist, contrary to what you would have us believe. Communists and moral relativists of your stripe, however, are. That horseshit about North Korea, Cuba and the Soviet Union being merely "totalitarian dictatorships" (without the "leftist" in them) is no better than when right-wing assholes claim that Nazis and fascists aren't right-wing totalitarians. The reasoning behind your attempts to remove any type of leftist connotations from said dictatorships is so that you can promote policies which would REPLICATE those societies' very same policies. It's like when you use words like "genocide" and "ZioNazis" -- it's all about robbing terms of their original meaning or at the very least watering them down to a point where you yourself can employ actions which the words initially described with less fear of repercussions. It's a classic fascist and communist tactic. And if there actually was any substance to one single thing you have claimed in this talkback, you wouldn't be such a spineless cunt when it comes to debating them.
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I'm like a Sharper Image (TM) Ionizer clearing up the smoke you keep blowing into the room. What does the Armenians and Turks have to do with the Holocaust? The fact that the Zionists collaborated with the Nazis is a separate issue. Instead of trying to cover it up, as a Jew you should be fucking outraged that they would sacrifice so many Jews to grab a piece of desert land. Why aren't you mad at them and how they manipulated their own people? How can you call yourself Jewish for tolerating that? How can we be Americans if we hand over our government so willingly to the Neocons and Israeli interests? Why can't I have mayonaisse on my pastrami sandwich at Katz's? I am so distraught now I can barely type.
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...of the tens of thousands of peaceful Israelis marching in Tel Aviv" ....... tens of thousands whose eviction from Israel itself you would gladly support, you hypocritical cocksucker.
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Despite the fact that I very clearly stated that I'm not Jewish, you insist on calling me a Jew. This is because "Jew" to you is obviously some sort of insult, as you cannot fathom the idea that a non-Jew could take issue with your politics. I had a similar experience when I was baiting people on a neo-nazi message board a couple of years ago. Despite explaining that I wasn't black, one particularly scummy nazoid kept referring to me as a "nigger". Like I said -- extremists on both ends eventually meet up.
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Isarael doesn't seek genocide...your Hezbollah buddies however DO...In one of the most admirably straightforward of Islamist declarations, Hussein Massawi, the Hezbollah leader behind the slaughter of U.S. and French forces 20 years ago, put it this way:
"We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you."
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if the response of the past two weeks is a predictor of future Israeli responses, Iran and Syria have to consider carefully that the era of supreme self-restraint on Israel's part is over.
It may be that the utter destruction of Hezbollah won't be the result of this battle. But there are criticizms of them from all over the Arab world AND tremendous arguments supporting Israel's actions. This is unprecedented!
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Doc, if I meant to insult you by calling you Jewish, I would have used the "K" word. Or the "H" word. I would never do that. I don't use racial epithets like some of the Zionazis here. And even if you are not Jewish (nothing wrong with being Jewish), you should still be outraged at the Zionists working with the Nazis. Any decent person should be.
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Since you are resorting to reposting instead of saying anything new, I'll do the same later. Saves me from finger-fatigue.
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Israel is, and has been, committing genocide for decades. You don't like the word genocide associated with Israel, then okay, let's call it mass extermination, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, the Palestinian Holocaust. Any of these terms to your liking? Right-wingers are so politically correct ...
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No, you don't use the epithets, but then again, you don't need to. You pretend that you didn't see the post in which that information was made available, which enables to you to use "Jew" as a sly insult and feign ignorance afterwards. It's a case of both having the cake and eating it -- more hypocrisy and doubletalk on your part, in other words. You obviously lack the courage of your convictions, otherwise you'd back up your own innuendos. Cunt.
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of course it is. but dont worry. when Israel fails, the world's Jewish population will simply congregate at Doc/anchorite/gaius' house. better make some more room in the garage..you dopes know israel has pushed itself to the point of no return by indiscriminately leveling and occupying Lebanon.. this is it..there's no turning back.. the incendiary, fiery conclusion is imminent and is looming more each day..you fucked up. thanks a lot.. shoulda sought an agreement, shoulda heeded lennon's imagine and take the high road and prove yourselves to be the better man..but the truth is you are no better, despite blurting egregious gems like Rabbi Perin's "one million arabs are not worth one jewish fingernail" or sharon's "We, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it!" the problem is you are too proud. pride goes before destruction. look what you did.. and the whole planet is condemming israel/US's scheme in every country with marches.. but youd never know this by watching CNN.. we knows who runs the networks.. doesnt matter.. you can cirgle the wagons here on AICN and put out the memo to your fictional tribe that youre going to "ignore" those "trying to rile us up"..again,meathead, there no "us". it's just lonley ol' you talking to yourself via fakenames and strawmen. maybe one of them is that tiny shred of conscience bothering you-- that instinctive reasonable doubt in your heart of hearts confirming you know Israel has gone too far..using 2(count em) 2 missing soldiers as the B.S.excuse for war is right up there with Bush's imaginary WMDs pretext.. at the end of the day, you have provoked the inevitable unthinkable. you know what's coming because these folks dont fear death like you do. they are ready to die, you arent. you really think youre going to smoke each and every one of those "slithering servants", like that slick revealing post you made under your "Dum Guy" pseudonym in the sdcc soap thread.. "impotent in thoughts and deeds"? "wallowing in quiet desperation?" youre not talking about me DocAchorite.. youre describing the mood in haifa. so what if hizbollah is armed by iran..so fucking what, who arms you? the US, whats the difference? the difference is these people are ready to die and theyre not leaving this earth without giving you that equal titanic taste of defeat that youre serving them now..BECAUSE NOT DOING SO WOULD BE THE MOTHER OF CHOKES. these people arent going out like that. so keep demeaning them as terrorists and "loathesome creatures", "Dum Guy".. keep underestimating them. and keep claiming your not them, doc..right..whatever happens, a big thanks to your people for fucking up planet earth. when the mushroom rises then you will have your (or Lennon's )"peace"..sad.
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Your use of the term "genocide" is a case of classic totalitarian wearing down of terminology. You seek to rob the word of its original meaning so that its implementation (on people you don't mind it happening to) will be easier in the future. When any type of death can be equated with the premeditated and state-sponsored murder of every man, woman and child of a particular race or nationality, then the particular heinousness of the latter is easier to disguise and relativize.
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...are you drinking or something? That's probably the most incoherent post I've ever seen you produce here. Your credibility, such as it was, has been completely destroyed by those links to neo-nazi websites you posted on your blog. I used to think you were just a troll, but you truly are insane -- a total fruitcake.
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If it WAS genocide. I'd condemn it in a second. If Israel wanted to achieve that, it would take them all of 48-72hrs to do so.
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Suppose every last Jew in Israel were dead or fled.Suppose you and those intolorent, genocidal maniacs got their way, WHAT THEN? What would rise in place of the Zionist Entity? It would be something like the Hamas-Hezbollah terror squats in Gaza and Lebanon only bigger. Hamas won a landslide in the Palestinian elections, and Hezbollah similarly won formal control of key Lebanese Cabinet ministries. But they're not Mussolini: They have no interest in making the trains run on time. And to be honest, who can blame them? If you're a big-time terrorist mastermind, it's frankly a bit of a bore to find yourself Deputy Under-Secretary at the Ministry of Pensions, particularly when you're no good at it and no matter how lavishly the European Union throws money at you there never seems to be any in the kitty when it comes to making payroll. So, like a business that's over-diversified, both Hamas and Hezbollah retreated to their core activity: Jew-killing
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...as you well know, the two soldiers were merely the straw that broke the camel's back. When Israel pulled out of Lebanon in 2000, it was on the condition that the Lebanese government send its army south to neutralize Hezbollah. This was part of a treaty. However, the Lebanese government never lived up to its part of the bargain, and subsequently Israel has endured rocket attacks from Hezbollah more and more frequently for six years. But this is actually irrelevant to our discusssion since you believe Israel should be destroyed no matter what. In fact, even if Hezbollah militiamen came across the border and ate Israeli babies alive by the hundreds, you'd STILL find a way to deny Israel its right to strike back. As it is, tinfoil-hatter websites have already popped up claiming that Israel PLANNED the kidnapping of their own troops as a fake reason for war. You hate Jews, period, zfisk/homewrecker and you're a loony to boot.
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"AICN neoconzionists". zfisk. What a fucking cunt.
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How dare you try to bait me into using a racial epithet against Jewish people. In your pitiful excuse for a brain you'd rather I be a racist Israel-hater than someone who takes a reasoned position against right-wing Israeli actions and thinking. It's too easy to hate, and I encourage you to let your hate go. Thank you, too for admitting you troll different forums baiting people. Rather than engaging in constructive discourse, your only skill is to incite more hatred, your only emotion. Sad, pitiful little Zionazi.
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"...you'd rather I be a racist Israel-hater than someone who takes a reasoned position..." BUT THAT's EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE. You've been spewing Jew-hate for 20 or so posts, you want us to believe otherwise? Um, a little too late there Adolf.
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I just found it ironic that the two most vehement advocates of genocide (make that mass murder, or ethnic cleansing, whatever term you prefer) are nicknamed Doctors. Doctors are supposed to save and preserve life, not advocate death and murder. You should both be ashamed of those handles.
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As I said to Yackbacker in an earlier discussion, I support Israel's continued 'existence'... as long as that existence is not at the expense of the murder of the Palestinian people. Israel must stop its explicit policy of ethnic cleansing. Yes, Israel could wipe out the Palestinians in 48 to 72 hours, but that's bad PR, and Israel is all about the PR ... but genocide can be carried out in the way Israel knows best. Through slow, torturous sanctions and incremental mass murders. Israel must stop this insanity, negotiate with the Palestinians as true equals, treat them with respect and dignity, pay reparations and issue a formal apology to them, and they can have last peace. Sounds like a good plan - what do you think? Too much for you to stomach?
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I think the situation in the middle east is far too complex to figure out on a nerd forum, but I'm curious- If I think Israel is probably the bigger asshole in this conflict, does that make me anti-semitic? What if I am semitic? Or not? Is it possible to consider Israel's actions from a political perspective, and not a racial one? Or am I a 'nazi' for suggesting that Israel's army and government are acting a little, ahem, fascist? And What If I said that Lebanon and other Muslim states, like Syria and Saudi Arabia should get off their asses and put down terrorist organizations and their supporters within their own borders, does that make me a zionist? Or am I just an asshole for caring about this at all? What the fuck is on TV?
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Adolf? Adolf whom? Coors? Because I do like myself a cold one. Hey, friend, it wasn't me who collaborated with the Nazis to bring about the murder of Jews in order to justify the establishment of Israel in Palestine. You must be thinking of the Zionist Jews who betrayed their own race to attain power. But you know all about betraying your own people, don't you, right-winger?
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by someone called "Docholiday" at huffingtonpost.com ... check it out ... "By: DocHoliday on July 21, 2006 at 04:50pm
The bombing and killing of children, little toddlers and babies and other innocents to avenge the CAPTURE of military soldiers who were warring with an enemy is frikking "embarassuing"
It is downright barbarism. Dear heaven, I have been reading the defense of Israel by those who would defend any act of barbarism on the internet. They are as irrational as George Bush in his invasion of Iraq on lies.
Killing little children seems to be overlooked by many of the seemingly intelligent defenders of Israel's "right to defend itself"
Right it is defending itself by killing one third of the population who are merely little innocent children who never understood why they were bleeding to death.
Nevermind this crap of "defending itself" and justifying thuis slaughter. It is all bull crap when supporters are supposedly "embarrassed" by the slaughter and not outraged.
Three soldiers were CAPTURED in a military objective. Children are being slaughtered because the Israeli military could not prevent a GADDAM CAPTURE." I totally agree, except that he should know that those 3 soldiers were a sacrificial ruse by Israel to start this wholesale slaughter of the Lebanese. -
Jul 23, 2006 9:57:10 PM CDT
Dstrbo1: If I may be so bold as to answer your question
by brokebackcowboy
There is no forum that is inappropriate to discuss these issues. It can be at AICN, or it can be on Yahoo. Who cares? It's a way for people to talk, and that is the most important thing. One can write the Great American Novel on toilet paper - it doesn't have to be done on an iMac. Anyway, you're NOT anti-semitic when you criticize Israel. Nor are you a zionist when you criticize Syria and Saudi Arabia. You are just a reasonable, thinking person. It's admirable. Just ignore the labels and speak your mind. I've been called an uncountable number of names here, from anti-semite to a sleazeball Hezbollah supporter. I just laugh, because the last thing some people just get their panties in a knot when their smokescreen gets ionized by me. I am the Sharper Image Ionic Breeze (TM) and they are pollution.
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Doesn't anyone find in odd that jet fuel is a hydro-carbon (kerosene) with a maximum burning temperature of 1600 degrees f (and that's if there is a constant fuel source), and steel doesn't begin to melt until 2500 degrees f (doesn't begin to lose it's stuctural integrity until well over the flashpoint of jet fuel). Hmmmmm. And what about the head architect of the WTC who designed the buildings to withstand multiple jumbo jet hits akin to a "pencil through a mosquito net." And how can the building fall at near free-fall speed (i.e. terminal velocity) if one floor continually pancaked on the floors benith it (government explanation). Oh yeah, why did building 7 collapse. And why did Larry Silverstien say on the record that there was a decision to "pull" the building. For those who don't know Larry Silverstien was the benificiary of the 3 billion dollar insurance policy taken out on the WTC weeks before the attacks.
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You, Yackbacker, DocPazuzu, DoctorWho and all the little Zionazis have done your best to shout me down with your incessant insults and insinuations. Now you tell me you would love me to leave, to stop posting here and sharing my criticism of Israel and the Neoconservative Zionist traitors of America on this board. For those reasons, I will stay. Because I am the Sharper Image Ionic Breeze Quadra (TM) and the smoke you're blowing is bad for the environment. And I'm all about a clean environment!~
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Yes that is odd. Also odd is how the Bush Administration ordered the complete removal of all WTC wreckage before the search for bodies was completed, and the destruction that wreckage without letting any forensic scientists examine it. They couldn't let them discover any evidence of the kind of planned destruction you cited in your post. I also find it odd that there is no evidence of an actual plane hitting the Pentagon. I can just picture Bush addressing the AIPAC convention ... "You're doing a heckuva job, Zionists!"
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and he's seems real and not one of Doc's clones. imagine that...even if there's no way to prove it, youre really taking them(him) out on his own site. thanks for the info. so israel's statehood came from a clandestine backdoor agreement with germany? to drum up sympathy on the world stage? i gotta look that up. lets see a director take on that, if they can debunk jesus with tom hanks... and screaming "youre an antisemite nazi of the highest order" is buffoonery and high anxiety, especially if one thinks that's the ONLY reason one disagree with them. its the only ANTISEMITENAZIBLAHBLEH!! quiet! you look like an idiot...it weakens your argument-- it's like playing monopoly and slapping down your "community chest!" or "get out of jail card!" you kids are better off playing Uno.
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Your half-hearted criticism of Israel is a prime example of verbal diarrhea. Attacking Lebanon is bad because it's bad public relations? Not because it's wrong to kill innocent children (1/3 of all dead in Lebanon are children)? But the good thing coming out of this is it will teach the Lebanese to vote the way Israel will want them to vote? And hey, the Lebanese were given a good day's warning to abandon their lifelong homes and possessions so they could be destroyed, so that's fair. You must have some truly bad parents to be raised with such hatred for humanity. If I had a glove, sir, I would slap you for your insolence. You cad.
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After you look up the word "genocide" you would do well to look up the word "debate", as you display literally zero knowledge of the meaning of either term. The fact is that you've dodged every. single. point. that I have brought up against your feeble arguments from day one, and responded with nothing but ceaselessly repeated sexual insults and tired attempts to grind down the meaning of words for purposes stated above. Then you laughably pretend to be taking the high road and getting all "how dare you" when you get called out on what you are. You aren't the dumbest asshole on this board, but after zfisk/homewrecker, you are certainly the worst debater. You. Haven't. Answered. One. Single. Debunking. And yes, you are most certainly an anti-semite. Plenty of people have criticized Israel on this board and I haven't accused them of being anti-semites. You and zfisk/homewrecker are a different matter altogether.
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You should also read the articles at informationclearinghouse.info ... a link I checked out thanks to Gingertwit. I am a big fan of Robert Fisk and Juan Cole, and this site publishes them too. Good stuff. Juan Cole's current article blows the lid off of the premise for the current Lebanon invasion - it was planned for over a year. Those kidnapped soldiers were another one of Israel's many smokescreens. Check out the article.
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...you sad, feeble pussy. "Bringing it" indeed. You've posted links on your blog to a site run by an infamous neo-nazi. How much more proof of your anti-semitism would ANYONE need to see what a miserable, deranged piece of shit you are? You're probably right in bitching out and not even attempting to debate anyone here since you lack even the most basic reasoning skills required to do so. Have another vat of thorazine and call me in the morning.
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Here's the site belonging to Michael A. Hoffman II which zfisk/homewrecker linked to on his blog: http://www.revisionisthistory.org/news.html ......... Pay especially close attention to the article dealing with the codifying of Holocaust denial into a "christian faith" as well as the articles on WWII revisionism. If you want to see countless examples of the degradation of words in the service of totalitarianism, as demonstrated by brokedick in this talkback, look no further than Hoffman's WWII FAQ.
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I think you are under the mistaken impression that I care what someone like you thinks about me, or calls me. Someone, like you, Zionazi, who advocates the killing of innocent human beings, who puts right-wing Israeli interests ahead of America. You filthy traitor. You dirty, dirty little man.
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...your rushing to zfisk/homewrecker's defense, despite his obvious neo-nazi leanings, demonstrates exactly why there's a difference between people who criticize Israel and people who hide their hatred of Jews behind the criticism of Israel. Does that help, dstrbo1?
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Again, you bring the empty accusations (advocating killing innocents, right-wing Israeli interests ahead of America etc) while refusing to address sound counterpoints to your own weakly supported claims. GingerTwit, bless his poor dumb soul, at least tries to engage in debate, and zfisk/homewrecker doesn't even count because he's a psychopath, but you are the WORST fucking debater on AICN, and that's saying a lot. You're an empty, tubthumping phony and have absolutely zero to bring to the table in terms of historical knowledge or political skills in order to fight for your cause. As I've said, you've got nothing.
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I can see why you're so pissed off at my defense of ZFisk. He hasn't written anything nearly as vitriolic as you Zionazis, and you pack of mean girls can't seem to shout him down. You see, I root for the underdog. That's the kind of person I am. And you mean girls need to change your underwear because you're pissing all over yourselves because no one is buying your bullshit about Israel being innocent.
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that Israel(hopefully)rids poor Lebanon from these Hezbollah devils. Israel would welcome good relations with the legitimate govt. there. And as far as you demanding reparations and an apology...for what? Reacting to a thousand or so rockets tossed randomly into cities to kill civilians? How dare they! You see, even when Israel spends days selecting targets,times, procedures,taking into account the smallest collateral damage possible with hi tech systems, gps,and laser guided targeting...THEY STILL end up with civilian casualties. But Hezbollahs WHOLE INTENTION IS TO DO JUST THAT...KILL CIVILIANS. If you can't see the moral difference there(no matter how small),Than you are on the wrong side of history. The wrong side of civilazation. The wrong side of humanity.
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Yes, of course, let's all root for the neo-nazi since he's getting his ass kicked. Go for it! Eye of the tiger, Adolf! Eye of the tiger! Just keep talking, brokedick. You're doing more damage to yourself than I could ever inflict.
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but you also called me a sleazeball communist Hezbollah and Hamas supporter cunt. So you're not exactly a worthy debating partner. Right? Anyway, this communist cowboy has to go to work tomorrow so I gotta get some sleep. Sleep tight, Zionazi. Don't spend the whole night up on my account.
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...is that I HAVEN'T called you any of those things except "sleazeball" and "cunt", but that those two terms are more applicable to you than anything you've said so far is to reality.
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stamping foreheads with yur buzzwords certifes nothing but your personal grudges.. you will never catch me advocating the death of anyone.. when i can list any post where you hang yourself. you are doctor of nonsense. (the sdcc soap thread Dum guy snakes/arabs quote is one of your classics)Psychopath? you wish that were true. im not anti anyone. israel is simply wrong. thats all. but you cant see it. everyone's a nazi in your wacky world. really? everyone's a nazi? ANTISEMITENAZIBLAHBLEH!! i can see you at 90 screaming that.. i dont have to be a nazi to condemmn what israel has done since 1948. youre losing ground.. youve got nothing, you are nothing, and citing 'violations' of your prissy "debate etiquette' and your fucking emily post white gloves is a cover for getting owned....Israel lied its way to where they are today; they lied, doc.....
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...I have, as opposed to you, no problem combining my insults with sound argumentation while you have nothing but the former -- at least you had, until you decided to go pious in a sad attempt to seem more dignified than your earlier "I'm gonna fuck your sisters in the ass" persona.
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You would have been right there with Neville Chamberlain "...peace in our time." This is the defining issue of our time(Islamofacism that is)and it is WORSE than Nazism: At least the Nazis valued their own lives.
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Rest assured, having travelled the vast distance I have in this great world of ours, also having spoken in groups of people - both lowly citizens to the highest of the human chain..... The world knows exactly what is taking place. It's the confusion created in places like the media and here on Aint it cool (amoungst other internet talkbacks) that cause good people like yourself to believe the world is being successfully mis-led. But the world isn't being mis-led. the world knows exactly what is taking place. These paid shills are not only kidding the world, but themselves if they seriously believe that people are buying into their bullshit. By all means, keep up the fight with these types. It's endlessly entertaining to watch. But don't believe for a second they are truely convinced of their arguments. Especially the ones who will look at my Link provided and then queery me about why I will have issues with whats going on now, yet ignore the same sort of pictures of Israely cafe attacks from palestinians. These are bullshit questions that I have no choice but to ignor -- remember that next time someone queeries you with the same sort of nonsense. The organisations causing these atrocities are and have been a cancer on this beautiful world of ours for the longest time. But their time is limited. All they can do is kill. But look closely and you will see just how rotten the system is on the inside. They're dying. They're exposed. They're scared.
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Hi, first time posting, never really felt the urge to until seeing this whole argument that's been raging on this talkback. I'm an observant jew and a zionist, and many of the posts that I've skimmed thru over the last hour has made me feel sad over how intolerant some people are of others. When we today pride ourselves on being such open-minded people, the fact that some posters here think its okay to make sweeping, hurtful claims about Jews and Israelis and their conflict with both Palestinians and Lebanon has shown the complete opposite from those people.
I'm not saying that Israel has been doing all the right moves in Lebanon, far from it in fact, as they probably could have prevented many more civilian deaths. And I -
One last post for the night ... you want to know what Israel has to atone for? How about the slaughter of innocent Palestinians. The kidnapping of family members from their own homes. The razing and destroying of thousands of acres of their farmland so they are at the mercy of Israel for their own food. The bulldozing of their homes while they are sleeping in them. The herding of them into refugee camps and then bombing and shooting into those camps. The deaths of thousands of infants from the withholding of food and medicine. The killing of American peace-volunteer Rachel Corry by an Israeli soldier bullozing her to death. How about getting their Neocons to get us into Iraq to help secure Israel (do you think Israel would be bombarding Lebanon right now if the US weren't in Iraq?). America is now $300 Billion in the hole on this war, gas is $3.50 a gallon and what we need is to get the fuck out of the Middle East and send a fucking bill to Israel to pay for this mess. Yes, Israel has much to atone for. Now again, good night, Zionazi.
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zfisk/homewrecker... I fucking own you on a daily basis. What's more is I fucking own you largely due to your own hilariously demented posts. Dude, you've posted a link TO A NEO-NAZI WEBSITE and you're still claiming that I don't have any proof of your anti-semitism. Even if you can't see how fucking insane you are ("snakes/arabs"?!?!), can't you at least see how poorly constructed your defenses are? I've yet to see you win a debate with ANYONE in the talkbacks, much less me.
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if a hezbollah blows himself up for his people, TO YOU that is not valuing his life. TO THEM, that is the highest honor.. its no different that the japanese kamikaze pilots of pearl harbor, who were respected. your point is bogus.real bravery and valor is about not fearing death. let me know when israel gets that kind of courage. because i never saw it.
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Once more you ignore every point I make rather than actually debate me. I've previously stated that Israeli treatment of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and the West Bank appalls me. I oppose the settlements and the occupation and support the creation of a Palestinian state consisting of these two territories. No matter how you try to spin this, brokedick, I'm still the one who supports a two-state solution while you are the one who supports murderous organizations, the eradication of Israel (if the Palestinians wish it) and loony neo-nazis like zfisk/homewrecker.
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You post links to neo-nazi revisionist websites. You have NO honor whatsoever. You're scum.
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It was very gracious. I do feel as you do that the smokescreen is cleared. And people like DocPazuzu are, as you described, very scared. I have plenty of friends - including Jews - who feel as I do. That Israel, as it is run by the right-wingers, is completely contrary to anything resembling a moral society. So good night, to you and ZFisk. No one 'owns' anyone. We just debate and wring the truth out. Peace.
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Are you implying that israelis would gain your respect if they blew themselves up to kill innocent Arabs. Just wondering. Because you make that case for Palestinians and kamikazes
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Once again you show yourself to be the self indulgent meglomaniac king of the talkbacks you so proudly hold yourself. Dude, you say I arrive the second your going away for a few days. Is it possible that I'm actually a very busy individual, with ties and obligations that prevent me from sitting here on AICN day in day out. Quite honestly, after past talkbacks i believe there really is nothing more for me to add to these boards. Cock munchers like yourself thrive on those like myself to bait and argue with. Generally with very little, if any, actual point to argue, except for name calling and accusations of our ill personal integrity. It's not worth it. i get better arguments in the real world. From people who know what they're talking about. These boards to me are just pure comedic entertainment. But yes, I'll still take the time to read through the political talkbacks, if only to see how deranged you and your kin can be...... not to mention how many laughs i get when you shoot yourself in the foot. Man, that last one where some one posted to you and you answered under the wrong user name, then quickly tried to cover the fact with multipull posts under the doc paz persona. I giggled for days on that. Want the link?
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It's not the fanatic's disregard for HIS OWN life which is the point, but his disregard for the lives of EVERYONE ELSE. To the fanatic, there is no difference between a soldier and a civilian -- they seek to kill EVERYONE of a particular race, nationality or group. Read up on your buddy, Michael A. Hoffman II. Moron.
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Any updates on those recent studies regarding the moon's gravity? Yes, I most certainly want that link -- especially since it proves the problem with you tinfoil-hatters, namely that you lack critical thought while basking in the mistaken belief that you have more than most people. I have no idea what the event is you're talking about, but by your reasoning, it's never happened that someone has answered a question in TB which was meant for someone else. So, by all means, do post that link and demonstrate why you indeed still hold the title "Dumbest Talkbacker in History".
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...brokedick is wrong, people DO get owned. Every day. And you're one of them.
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Doc - I certainly don't envy the monster headache you must have after trying to go toe-to-toe with zfisk/homewrecker and brokebacknutboy. What I really don't understand is how these two neanderthals have been able to develop such grotesque, ill-informed opinions while still being able to summon the brain capacity to type them out. It's ludicrous. I've read some amazing stuff in TB before but this...this is unbelievable. It certainly gives credence to the theory that the extreme left is the new Nazi-ism.
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Is jayjew. But it doesn't take much to own a troll. Nor is it really anything to hold proudly in your resume for people in the 'real outside world'. Here's the Link anyway. I couldn't be shagged going through it because unlike you, I really do have a hundred things to do (in the real outside world) But it's there. it happened. You made a complete Donkey dick out of yourself. again. http://aintitcool.com/tb_display.cgi?id=23361#1165296
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Try this one brokeback: "I watched in horror as [Nasrallah's] maniacal speech unfolded in which Nasrallah actually threatened the Israelis with releasing chemical gas from local factories on civilians in Haifa. Despite fighting them for all those years, he clearly does not understand the Israelis' psyche or the trauma of the Holocaust. A threat like that. The Israelis don't like being caught in a quagmire any more than the next person, which is why Nasrallah could get them to leave southern Lebanon. But his victory appears to have given him megalomania, and he has now gone too far.
Hizbullah's attacks on Israeli civilians are war crimes. The killing of the civilians in Haifa at the train station was a war crime. And threatening to release chemicals from factories on civilian populations is probably a war crime in itself, much less the doing of it.
Obviously, I do not accept that Hizbullah's actions justify the wholesale indiscriminate destruction and slaughter in which the Israelis have been engaged against the Lebanese in general. But they do have every right to defend themselves against Nasrallah and his mad bombers,". http://tinyurl.com/s7wu4 -- Like many others, Juan is a self-righteous fucktard who commands respect because of his "educated" and "unorthodox/contrarian" views. But like Chomsky, he will often resort to conspiracy tactics whenever faced with a well informed, well spoken opposition.
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You really can't be that much of a dope. Do you just skip over other peoples posts and just read the high and mighty Doc's posts. Lets all take a deep breath here. Brokedick, I mean back, has made some phenominal posts. Yes, he has. I'm quite envious that I no longer have the energy to indulge you fuckers anymore. Besides, give this man a position of high political power if he's capable of speaking as well in person as he is here. Brokeback, you're my hero :) Ok, enough of that shit. Doc, You'll never change. You're like the god damn robots that have replaced actual operators phone opperators. You've got your programing in place to tackle anything anyone says. The truely amazing thing is you're still to this days, years later, surrounded by the same God damn yes men. It seems, though, that every mother fucker here has an oppinion of just how to end the conflict. I sure as shit have no idea. A big lazer beam that can slice off the crustal layer and place these areas somewhere on the far side of the moon. that might work. But when it comes to people like Brokeback, and zfisk or what ever his name is (guys, have names that are pronouncible) then it's ideas of diplomacy, cease fires, talks, agreements. But when it comes to people like you Doc, it's all about Israels right to defend itself. What, by wiping out entire city areas and displacing half a million people. What good is that for anyone? Do you not see that it's the rest of the world that must then come to the aid of these displaced people. it's the rest of the world that must come and clean up all the blood and the shit that is left behind in the ruins. Do you think all these people are troddling in whistling to themselves as they say "Well fuck, these cunts brought it on themselves. Hey Israel, can you stop shooting for a second while we clean this up. just for a few weeks then you can get right back into it. ta." What the fuck guys? hey? When the war stretches out to areas a little closer to home, will you still be sitting pretty on how the agressors 'have their reasons'. For years now, it's been nothing but "Terrorism this, terrorism that. Weapons of mass distruction. lets save the world" But what do we get as an answer to these problems.... whole cities and countries being wiped off the map - all with the media presentation "Hey, we just killed 100 million terusts." Good job fuckers, good job. You guys are bullshit
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"there is no difference between a soldier and a civilian"..so by your own logic the IDFs are fanatics since there was clearly no difference in their judgement.. great capper to another one of your hindenburg sized defeats. what's loony is your persistent delusion of people here advocating israel's destruction when NO ONE HERE here called for it or linked to it. stop making up junk and stop lying. you got trounced tonight.. get back to the sewer and try to get the stench of failure off you for tomorrow.
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I have no problem with Israel defending itself. But I can look beyond that and see that they may in fact be taking things too far. Now, I have yet to have a direct confrontation with you Ginger Twit. But I will be damned if I let the insanity that is zfisk go uncontested. It may be Ginger (since you are so busy in the real world) that you are not as familiar with the antics of zfisk/homewrecker on this TalkBack boards. As for brokeback (and zfisk), I see a lot of semantic/diversionary style debate tactics. Very clever turns on words, etc. Now, I might not have responded exactly the way Doc Pazuzu has here, but I certainly empathize with his efforts to rebuke him and (especially) zfisk/homewrecker. Yet, ultimately, I find it very hard to take an anti-semitic homophobe or someone who believes that the moon's gravity is 6 times more than the Earth's seriously.
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You think those IDF pilots are just listening to their ipods and dropping bombs randomly?? They have specific targets and precision weaponry. Now, the problem is when you have Hezbollah hiding rockets and leadership in apartment buildings. My heart breaks for the familes who have to endure living in a country run by a terrorist army. They care not one whit for the people.
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Stop pretending to care about civilians as a general principle. The fact is you don't give two shits about Israeli civilians -- only the civilians whose fate promotes your own odious politics. The difference between Israel and Hezbollah, as if you didn't know, is that the former causes civilian death through collateral damage (look it up) whereas the latter targets civilians on purpose. Do you think that the Iranian or Syrian air force would even bother dropping leaflets warning Israeli civilians of impending air strikes? Of course you don't and that's the whole point. You hate Jews in general and Israelis in particular. You don't view them as human beings and you don't pity their deaths in the slightest. Again, you are the one who posted a link to A NEO-NAZI WEBSITE.
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...I read that whole talkback but couldn't find the episode you were referring to. Was it this post: "I'm not sure who you were directing that question towards. I'm not a republican, but if irrefutable evidence came out proving my mother was behind 9-11, I'd say she was evil, yes. And if Jesus had been behind it? Evil." ....... If so, you might have noticed that I prefaced it with certain doubts as to who the question was aimed at. And if so, one can't help but ponder the question: how many generations of vegemite-lubricated, outback inbreeding was needed to create a brain which "giggled for days on that" when presented with it? Just what are the depths of your stupidity anyway? Each time I read your posts I think you can't possibly get any dumber, but sure enough, you always confound my expectations by producing posts of such increasing idiocy that it beggars belief. You are a true champion, GT.
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You actually post that ^ above, and somehow manage to include how dumb i am. dude. I needed a good laugh. thank you. see you next time
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but I've read it and you guys have a good debate going on here. I haven't however, seen anyone mention the piss-poor coverage the Israel-Lebanon "conflict" has gotten in the media. Israel has essentially destroyed any arteries out of the country. All the major airports and major bridges have been bombed. People are afraid to try to leave major cities as the roads and bridges are still being bombed. People from other countries, Americans too, are trapped in Lebanon by the Israeli attacks. Even if you want to say Israel has a right to defend itself or whatever, this is absolute overkill. This is not retaliation, it is the wholesale destruction of a nation, and it is wrong.
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I do believe Israel has a right to defend itself but this incursion is backfiring. I have serious doubts that they will have made any real progress in terms of crippling Hezbollah. However, with that being said, this series of events may bring about an unexpected diplomatic/political discourse as it is revealing all the regional players and what their true motivations may possibly be. As for the media, there was quite a bit of coverage this weekend on the BBC and CNN (!) detailing ALL that you have mentioned above as well as pieces on the Lebanon death toll and how villagers (with the help of the Lebanese army) are having to dispose of their dead. The media is IN there, they are trying to show the Lebanese side. I think after Katrina, there is a shared view among members of the US media that they need to be aggressive and on the scene. But let's not forget the alterna-media: the internet. You can find whatever you want to see or believe...
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But this has been going on longer than just this past weekend, mind you. After so long it becomes impossible to ignore. And Gaius, I agree entirely with your first sentence in that post, however I would tack on that this is overkill. Not just overkill, but outright terrorism, in fact. If you have an entire civilian population too frightened to even attempt leaving the major cities to escape the major strikes, I don't see what else it can be called.
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...that's for damn sure. And the whole thing escalated so fast, I'm surprised we've been able to get some of the footage and coverage we have. But we must also hold Hezbollah to account as well.
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I give you, jayjew.
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There's widespread protests against Israel's actions in Europe there, buddy.
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...I guess I was right then? That was the post you were referring to? That had you giggling for days? My God, you're even dumber than I thought. Just for old times sake, I decided to include som links to some of your greatest hits in order to remind you (and demonstrate to others) how howlingly stupid and gullible you are. They range from your describing the death toll of the Holocaust as a "rumor" and how the beheadings in Iraq were faked, to how Bush was going to reinstate the draft in his second term and how the moon's gravity is six times that of the Earth's. My fave talkback, though, is the one where you and your (since banned) buttbuddy, Mace Windex, posted all kinds of conspiratard shit and I did a bit of research into your sources and found your "facts" to come from sources ranging from a "news" service run by nazi Walter Storch (www.npr.org) to Islamic fundamentalist goon sites and just plain wacko web pages. One of the latter (www.educate-yourself.org) has some awesome articles, my absolute favorite being: "Brice Taylor, a governemnt mind controlled 'presidential model' sex slave owned by entertainer Bob Hope and used for 19 years by Henry Kissinger as a 'human filing cabinet'" .......... Now, that kind of unintentional comedy can't be bought with money. Enjoy the loony rantings of Australia's shame, GingerTwit: http://tinyurl.com/q3qbj ..... http://tinyurl.com/rlsct ...... http://tinyurl.com/mqcz7 ...... http://tinyurl.com/s3erd ....... http://tinyurl.com/g3dz3
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You truly are a repellent scumsucker.
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I agree that Israel's using overkill in certain parts of Lebanon. I support their right to defend themselves against Hezbollah and think they should pound them into submission in southern Lebanon, but I think the strikes in other parts of the country have been excessive and unnecessary. A few symbolic and surgical strikes in other parts of Lebanon would have been enough to show them Israel means business this time, while concentrating their efforts on the militia in the south.
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Nazi Walter Storch's website obviously isn't www.npr.org, but www.tbrnews.org.
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I want to address your question "Would we in the US do that?" It's already been answered pretty emphatically in Iraq, where insurgent factions hide among the civilian population much like in Lebanon. And while I disagree strongly with the initial decision to invade Iraq, and the method of fighting terrorists there to be slow to the point of being nearly entirely ineffectual, I would much rather see Israel use their ground troops to weed out the factions rather than see the wholesale destruction of the civilian infrastructure of the country. In a recent quote from the leader of Israeli forces he said he expects the ground war to be over "within 10 days". This doesn't give me great hope that Israel will be improving their methods to something more humane. This is about as ugly a situation as has come out of the Middle East.
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Well, sometimes it's nice to take a break from superman and star trek to venture into the politics. 'Poli' meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'blood sucking creatures'. You guys have been fighting over this since Bush first took office it seems. Don't you ever get tired? Or do all you guys, like .... need each other. It's ok, I'm a needy talkbacker too. thats why i'm still here after... um.... how many years has this site been up? Well, I was actually supposed to be fairly close to this dangerous part of the world right now, but fortunately I fell into an active volcano and the injuries brought me back home. Damn. got some sweet footage for my next doco though.
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I mean, the plausibility for another World War is disturbingly present. Will have to see in the next few years what occurs once IRAN has perfected it's nuclear program. Plus, we gotta see what happens when Kim Jon IL really goes crazy. He's in his sixties, the senial years are on there way. Yikes!
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....I usually climb up the mountains around my home town. old worn down eroded remnants of once glorious Volcanoes. I got bored with them so i went to Hawaii. Sure it was great seeing the worlds largest volcano, sitting by the heat of a lava river. but the problem was all the steam, gas and sulfer. That shit is bad dude. It is really bad. I pushed it as hard as I could. Made it to La and San fran, but in the end i just lost the ability to move my body. Had to make a bad sad dash home. But it's cool. The drugs here are Wonderful! And I've still got my ticket for another year. So hopefully we'll be spared World War 3 from these crazy monkeys blowing each other up. I'll talk sulfer over depleted uranium anyday.
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Hmm . . . yeah you're right here. I was being an idealist, it's true. I'm not certain how Hezbollah operates within Lebanon, but being closely affiliated with the government I'm sure Israeli forces wouldn't be fighting a door to door war to bring down a loosely organized, ragtag group of extremists. Hezbollah is more organized than that. But you're right, in a perfect world the Lebanese government would denounce Hezbollah, free those captured soldiers, and go about weeding out the terrorists on their own. Unfortunately Lebanese leaders recently stated that Hezbollah wasn't giving up and that that battle, for the Lebanese, was just beginning. The one bright spot I've found in all of this is that Condeleeza Rice recently visited Lebanon to talk about aid to the civilians and whatnot, showing a remarkable support for a sworn enemy of that Israel country we're supposed to support. It shows that maybe this'll be one quagmire we can stay out of.
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Reeking havoc on ther Beirut airport is not arbitrary, willy-nilly destruction or "over kill" as you say. It's not like people sitting at the airport Starbucks or Cinnabun and then holy hell fire reigns down upon them. The IDF is pummeling the runways to stop supplies comming in from Iran. Allow me to state the obvious here, fo I believe I mistakenly assumed everybody knew this: HEZZBOLLAH IS SUPPORTED,SUPPLIED,AND FINANCED BY IRAN.
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"Hezbollah envoy: War on Israel to widen By BRIAN MURPHY, Associated Press Writer
Mon Jul 24, 8:45 AM ET
TEHRAN, Iran - Hezbollah's representative in Iran struck a defiant tone Monday, warning that his Islamic militant group plans to widen its attacks on Israel until "no place" is safe for Israelis.
Hossein Safiadeen also reinforced earlier threats by Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah to widen the scope of attacks, which have included unprecedented missile strikes deep into northern Israel.
"We are going to make Israel not safe for Israelis. There will be no place they are safe," Safiadeen told a conference that included the Tehran-based representative of the Palestinian group Hamas and the ambassadors from Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian Authority.
"You will see a new Middle East in the way of Hezbollah and Islam, not in the way of Rice and Israel."...
Safiadeen told The Associated Press he "had no news" about Syria considering withdrawing its support for Hezbollah, which touched off the crisis July 12 with a cross-border raid that captured two Israeli soldiers.
"We will expand attacks," he said. "The people who came to Israel, (they) moved there to live, not to die. If we continue to attack, they will leave."
Israel claims Iran has supplied Hezbollah with long-range missiles, which have hit the port of Haifa and other places. Iran denies the charges but does not hide its high-level support for Hezbollah.
"This war will be remembered as the beginning of the end for Israel," Safiadeen said. -
...with the heartbreak for these civilian casualties. Each one is a trgedy. There's a story behind each one that we'll never know. But you can't allow a cancer to grow without taking action which in someway hurts the body. And let's face it, the enemy here embraces the most intolerent, death loving ideology imaginable
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I am curious; if you actually DID make yourself a TB alter-ego which you then used to insult and argue with yourself, thus causing zfisk/homewrecker to identify it as one of the 'few real' TBers, if you then revealed it WAS you; would that cause some sort of temporal loop in zfisk/homewrecker's brain as he realised he was finally right about something, but wrong at the same time? It's a nice thought...
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It would have to be a temporal loop leading to a fatal brain embolism for REAL shits and giggles!
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The policy Hezbollah and the terrorist proxies (Al-Qaida, etc.) use is to move in and then dhimmitze the population through violence and intimidation. Moderate Muslims will not take up arms and resist the terrorists, nor will dhimmitized Christians. That is why the Lebanese won't fight back. And that's why they'll be killed.
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I understand completely the rationale behind the destruction of the airports and railways. What I consider to be overkill is the destruction of major bridges in the country. With all three major lines of transportation down, and most citizens too terrfied to try to cross any remaining bridges, the thousands and thousands of displaces refugees have nowhere to go and were forced to stay in the warzones for far longer than they should have, resulting in more civilian casualties. Not to mention the fact that foreigners in the country when the attacks started were also stuck for awhile.
I'm not the praying type, but if I were I'd be praying for the Lebanese, whose country has been hijacked by terrorists. And I'd be praying for the Israelis, whose government has put them at the mercy of madmen, as described in m2298's post. -
And may I say, you seem like a reasonable, thoughtful cat. Which is a bit of an abberation here sometimes.
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Seeing as how I'm actually interested in what others have to say about this situation, it's much easier to hold a real conversation than to run around calling anyone with a different opion a fucktard . . .
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Knock it off, ya fucktards! No more rational insightful comments. This is obviously the conservative's fault. . . or the lefties. Or maybe the minorities. Good, now we can get back to name calling.
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Thanks, Zombie. Everybody sucks but me!!!
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We all suck except Mechasheeva! That's why the world is in the crapper and damned hot too!
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Alas, it takes two to hold a real conversation. When one attempts to discuss issues or seeks to disprove or support claims, it helps if the other person actually acknowledges what's being said and replies to it. When nutballs drop blanket statements and/or post links to extremist web sites, my first impulse is to ignore them, but then I think if I can engage them in debates, I can prove the inanity of their arguments for the benefit of casual readers who actually might be on the fence. At times it's a sisyphian task since the fruitcakes rarely put their convictions to the test. I have no trouble with people who don't agree with me -- anchorite and I rarely agree on anything, for example, but he's not a fanatic and can discuss politics coherently even if he often is misguided... ;) As for the loonies, sometimes a heartfelt "you fucktard" is enough to warm the cockles of my heart.
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said he's a sisyphian! Har har! Oh, and keep your cockles to yourself. Geez, they aren't located anywhere near yer heart. And people call me dum.
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first off, GO HARRY! that was the greatest review i've ever read. i can't wait to see this movie thanks to this review, and i had no interest in seeing it (i kept thinking it was playing off 9/11 to make money), now i want to see it.
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an intense discussion of international politics to being warm and fuzzy! Awww . . . see what happens when we're all nice to each other? The thread starts to die! And Zombie, your posts make me laugh harder than they should . . .
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The nazis and the jews collaborated to bring about the Bush administration which worked with the oil companies who intern worked with EPA who intern connected with the cigarette companies to infiltrate the Democratic party to create a gigantic red brotosaurus named Harry Knowles...who is in fact a twisted drooling fuck who bought a 15 year old asian transvestite to be his bride...OH SNAP!!!
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Hey, DoctorWho...shut up. Seriously, the magnitude of the situation is beyond your control...grow up pal.
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...(I get your point, though) That might be one reason why we aren
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I just scrolled back to one of your previous posts on this thread to see what you were all worked about. I read your post. Yep. Confirmed.You're a prick.
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The Passion of the Christ is to Christians. It's just one of those things that happen . . . sigh . . .
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...check out zfisk/homewrecker's latest update: www.homewrecker-returns.blogspot.com ..... Not only are you all the PaZooZoo, but apparently we are all Hans Gruber too. Behold the awesome list of usernames that his zionist agent possesses. I almost fell off the chair this time. He's completely gone off the deep end now. More than anything, the accusations of mental illness seem to goad him the most, indicating that he really has been diagnosed with having deep, psychological problems. Fantastic.
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Welcome to the club. Apparently the mere suggestion in your post actually caused that near-fatal brainblow for zfisk/homewrecker. His update quotes your post verbatim.
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This is a real doozy: "even the new "alex jones' name is questionable. watch out." ...... Hear that, Alex Jones? Why don't you hire zfisk/homewrecker for your paranoid website? He's certainly got the credentials.
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What is this supposed Neo-nazi website that's got Doc all hysterical over? Chud.com? Don't let Harry get a wind of it.
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I am very good at public speaking. But I have this nervous twitch where my right arm goes straight out at a 45-degree angle ... it gets distracting when I'm talking about the Likudnik Israelis and their traitor American puppets.
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Israel dropped leaflets warning the hundreds of thousands of Lebanese in the south to abandon their homes because they will be destroyed. But they'll have to walk the thousands of miles ... "In their leaflet campaign, the Israelis have warned repeatedly they would consider minivans, trucks and motorcyles as targets." Good one, Zionazi swill.
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Israel dropped leaflets warning the hundreds of thousands of Lebanese in the south to abandon their homes because they will be destroyed. But they'll have to walk the thousands of miles ... "In their leaflet campaign, the Israelis have warned repeatedly they would consider minivans, trucks and motorcyles as targets." Good one, Zionazi swill.
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Israel dropped leaflets warning the hundreds of thousands of Lebanese in the south to abandon their homes because they will be destroyed. But they'll have to walk the thousands of miles ... "In their leaflet campaign, the Israelis have warned repeatedly they would consider minivans, trucks and motorcyles as targets." Good one, Zionazi swill.
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Didn't you get the memo? You're me. Just ask zfisk/homewrecker. Don't front.
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Israel dropped leaflets giving 2 days notice to the hundreds of thousands of Southern Lebanese to abandon their homes before they are destroyed. But they'll have to walk ... "In their leaflet campaign, the Israelis have warned repeatedly they would consider minivans, trucks and motorcyles as targets" .... Good one, Zionazi swill. Good one.
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I was that upset.
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http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0724-02.htm
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The Nazis and Japanese (like Israel) were far fewer in number than the nations and peoples they brutalized. Would you consider them underdogs? I don't understand your logic. But then again, I'm not a Zionazi traitor and I was raised and taught properly.
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I don't know how you can be both an observant Jew and, simultaneously, a Zionist. Please visit this website to clear up your head: www.nkusa.org ... but be warned. It contains pictures of Orthodox Jews and Arabs together in peace, protesting against Zionist Israel. Make sure you're sitting down.
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They sure come up with some doozies: "True Jews Will Never Recognize Israel" .... "Authentic Rabbis Always Opposed Zionism and the State of Israel" ... "Torah Forbids Any Jewish State" ... "Judaism Rejects Zionism". Thank you, Rabbi Dovid Weiss.
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...now you've done it. You used the word "doozies" like I did in a previous post. You have now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are me.
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troops in Iraq? Because Iraq was only the beginning, and he used those men and women, put them in harm's way when they were not trained, prepared nor supplied for such a conflict. Thousands of Americans now dead, and tens of thousands of them maimed for life. Rumsfeld was saving the rest of the armed forces for the greater conflict, one that was predicted by Seymour Hersh (who has sources in the Pentagon) last year, and that is now being initiated by Israel with its its attack on Lebanon. They are starting a war with Iran and Syria. For the first time since WWII, nuclear weapons will be used against Iran, once Israel is able to draw Iran and Syria into Lebanon when it starts a full-scale ground invasion. This has already started. Now our troops in Iraq, who are being attacked daily and are dangerously intermingled with resentful Iraqis, will be at risk of being targeted, full-scale, by Arabs. See this article for more, and if you have any sense of humanity, pray this does not happen. No one will win. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14176.htm
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I just read your blog. I think you give people like DocPazuzu and Anchorite too much credit. They're just a bunch of obscene, hateful loudmouths whose logic is so weak, so baseless and lacking in morality, that it is no effort to argue with them. Calling me "Brokedick" ... that's all they've got.
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I know something about these Neturei Karta guys. While anti-Zionism is one legitimate opinion among orthodox Jews, the NKrakpots have taken their beliefs to the point of pathological obsession. And it's one thing to feel for Palestinians, Lebanese, etc. However, listen to some of the wonderful folks NK has supported: Syrian dictator Bashir Assad, Louis Farrakhan, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian theocracy, and last but not least the Barnes Review which is run by Willis Carto, the intellectual godfather of the Americal Holocaust denial movement. For these activities, Neturei Karta has been excommunicated by mainstream ultraorthodox groups (including some anti-Zionist ones). For someone who likes dating Jewish women and attending their religious functions, you owe it to yourself to actually find out something about Jews, and not rely on extremist websites.
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Human tragedy = entertainment. Yeah Olivah! You go girl
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*Here is my response from the other TB* Oh man, I read that last night and stared at it with a mixture of amusement and near terror. He either genuinely believes what he has written there or he is just doing it to get a rise out of us (because he knows we are aware of the blog). Either way, he's insane.
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Wait, just because I'm an orthodox jew and a zionist, why does that make you automatically assume that I hate arabs? I have no problems with any Arabs, whether they are Palestinean, Lebanese, or anyone else, unless they are part of the small group that wants to directly harm others. I will however acknowledge that there is some definite problems amongst the people I am friendly with when it comes to accepting regular arabs as people. It's shameful, but at least I'm happy that I myself don't feel this way.
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...about zfisk/homewrecker is that he claims to be able to recognize my alleged multi-usernames, but then claims that people I've been fighting here for years ALSO are me. So, I guess it's enough that one types and posts on AICN in order to be instantly recognizable as "us". I am indeed curious as to how zfisk/homewrecker recognizes people who actually ARE on his side. Fruitcake city.
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was all the pretty colors he used in that blog post. What an artistic fuck he is. How he can claim simultaneously that brokeback schooled you and then say that brokeback IS you...wha?
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That must have taken ages. The "jew down a well" quote is out of context though. It was from Borat satirising stupidity in some redneck gathering. Apart from that....sheesh, I have never seen such insanity compiled in one place. Outside of homewrecker's blog
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I have never had my posts 'remixed' and compiled before. I don't see the need for it, since anyone can CTRL-F my name and read everything I wrote verbatim, and in context, but still it's very flattering. Now, if I were to quote everything hateful written about me and other Liberals here, I'd have to search on Anchorite, DocPazuzu, Mr. Nice Gaius, Doctor Who - all the Zionazis who are so scared of their smokescreen being ionized. And who has time for that? As for your compilation, I stand by everything I said, down to the word. I can summarize those posts into 2 categories: anything I said about Israel is true because they have been, and are, killing innocent people. Anything about banging your sister, that was because you (or Yackbacker, who cares) called me a Hezbollah/Hamas supporter. You can call me a conspiracy theorist, racist, anti-semite, a true wacko, Jew-hater, Liberal, or just call me Shirley. And don't think I don't know that your appeal to "fair-minded readers" was an attempt to hide my links to some very informative (to you, they may be 'hateful')articles ... so here it is again. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0724-02.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14176.htm
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I'm heartened that you don't hate Arabs (you can hate a handful of people because they do bad things, but hating a race is psychotic - hear that, Zionazis?). But when you say, "I will however acknowledge that there is some definite problems amongst the people I am friendly with when it comes to accepting regular arabs as people.", I think that is sad. Why would you want to go through life with friends like that? Look, I have Jewish friends, including Israeli emigrants, who abhor what is being done in their name. Defending your country/nation does not give license and reason to harm others indiscriminately. And people like DocPazuzu, Anchorite ... that's what they believe. Anybody can twist religious teachings and teach hate instead of love. Christian, Jewish and Muslim radical leaders do this. But if there was no one standing between a person and his Bible, Torah or Koran, what teachings would that person learn? If you know the answer to that, then you will see my point.
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After months of analyzing NASA's photos at the sub-terranean Antarctic labs of the German Roehmian Foundation, Professor Zebulon H.W. Fiskowitz has uncovered incontrovertable proof of the Pazuzian Conspiracy. Fiskowitz's shocking finds shed new, insidious light on this secret gay/Jewish plot to achieve world supremacy through the impersonation of online film geeks. "Yes, by employing a scientific method of my own design, known as "fabrication", I have been able to trace the roots of the Pazuzian Conspiracy to ancient -- indeed prehistoric -- times. Its octopus-like tentacles have left its imprint as far away as our nearest celestial neigbors. As our telescopes continue to advance technologically, I fully expect to find traces of the evil worship of demon lords The PaZooZoo, as well as his fellow anti-deity Jabootu, all throughout our galaxy and beyond," stated Fiskowitz.......... http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m279/DocPazuzu/proof.jpg
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...you are so full of shit. Everything sensible in your latest post is negated completely by the fact that you 1) refuse to debate the issues when they're put to you, 2) defend zfisk/homewrecker despite his links to Hoffmann's neo-nazi site, 3) you don't support Israel's right to exist which means NOTHING they do would appease you. ....... At least have the courage of your convictions instead of sliming your way around this TB with innuendo and doubletalk. And you are NOT a liberal. Add that word to the other ones you need to look up -- unless, of course, it's merely one more case of a word the meaning of which you're trying to deplete.
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I take a little offense to being called a "Zionazi". Please provide your reasoning for labeling me so.
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I want to say this to you, because you consider yourself Zionist. FWIW, I respect you from what you said. I view you as a reasonable (not blindly rabid) supporter of Israel. Even though I believe that the Palestinians have a claim to their lands, I don't advocate the dissolution of Israel. What I have said, and which Anchorite conveniently omitted in his abridged compilation of my posts, is that I support the mediation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, to negotiate the establishment of a viable Palestine, to make the proper amends to the Palestinians. If this is done, without any smokescreens and provocation by the right-wing Israelis to incite animosity and sabotage negotiations, then peace will ensue. For Israel, Palestine, and everyone else.
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...the question is this: even if the Palestinians get their country, but still oppose the existence of the state of Israel, would you THEN still be willing to support Israel's right to exist?
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I can't find homewreckers blog. Damn he made a funny superman edit. Remember that? I was giggling for days over that. It practically ruined the actual scene in the film for me. Keep going guys, this is such a waste of my time but damn it's entertaining.
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www.homewrecker-returns.blogspot.com
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I'm flicking through it and looking over all your usernames. I saw a couple I was sure in my own mind weren't you. Regi maniac being one of them. Pantera Rocks i was also sure wasn't you. Also seppequckawoosa. But then i saw my own name in the mix. And then i thought, shit... hang on.... I'm not Doc Pazuzu. I'm Ben Gibbs, Little ol filmmaker busting his balls and killing time on aint it cool. Not that I'm taking sides here, because I think you're all fucking crazy. but I'll provide proof of my isolation from the multi-posters. In the form of myspace. But now, i must sleep.
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...if the exceptions (including your own name) weren't a big enough hint for you as to the true nature of things, then you're as fucking mad as zfisk/homewrecker himself.
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Just because I disagree with everything you say...I hate Arabs? Wow. What a colossal injustice on your part. You are quite intolerant. Nice tactic. Dismiss everyone as a racist or bigot to escape having to engage ideas.
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...you forgot to list me amongst the 'ZioNazis', but then again I didn't call you anything (excvept possibly uninformed). You're entitled to your antizionism, but you seem fixated on right-wing, Likud 'neocon' Zionists. Where does that leave Defense Minister Amir Peretz (current head of Israeli Labor Party), Shimon Peres (vice premier, former head of Labor Party)? In fact the Likud (or what's left of it after the Kadima defections and losing most of it's seats in the last election) isn't even in the current government! At the moment even Meretz leader Yossi Beilin supports defeating Hezbollah, so apparently the only Israelis you would support are the extreme leftists who have demonstrated against the operation and your expat friends.
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Nice Gaius, I'm sorry you are offended by being called a Zionazi. Really, it's a shame because I'd rather you were not one. The reason I call you one is because, from the very beginning of this TB, you have consistently denigrated all the people putting forth information about 9/11 and their doubts about the official story. I don't have to cite your posts, it's all there. Stupid attacks, dumb insults, and all working in conjuction with the other Zionazis. You did this even though the information they put forth gave reasonable doubts to the official story. As a true American, it is your duty to seek the truth, especially in matters like this. That is the reason I call you a Zionazi, because you would rather be a traitor to your nation. I hope that answers your question. Regards.
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I think your problem is that I have a genuine disliking for zfisk/homewrecker. But there is nothing in this TB that warrants anything along the lines of what you just accused me of in your last post. In fact, I knew exactly how this TB was going to end up the moment Harry posted the movie review. Trust me, I've participated in several 9/11 related TBs and they all end up going in the collective global/Jewish conspiracy toilet. (I wish I had the time & patience to go back so that I could provide you links to these where I've already expressed my views and doubts about 9/11. If you are ignorant of those details, oh well.) You seem like an intelligent and clever guy brokeback. Don't insult yourself by being predisposed to ignorantly labeling everyone who may contest your opinions or insult your online buddies.
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to an article with "hateful sentiment". Happy reading.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0725-27.htm -
I haven't noticed, specifically, your personal animosity towards ZFIsk. All the Zionazis hate him, so it's hard to pinpoint any one person. He's not my 'buddy', but I have defended him against a barrage of stupid, petty insults that know no end. As for your line of insults and attacks against people like Boast (remember him?), it was needless. Just because you have already convinced yourself that there was no conspiracy on 9/11 doesn't give you the right to sabotage this Talkback for other people, who want to share and learn. You could have debated, or you could have stayed out of it. But no, you resorted to infantile insults.
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has been sabotaged "...for other people who want to share and learn." TRANSLATION: "If you don't LEARN what I'm SHARING with you...then you're a Zionazi."
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Thanks for translating my post. Maybe you should write Zionazism For Dummies.
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...Which you, brokedick, systematically refuse to do..... "you resorted to infantile insults" ..... like fucking our sisters in the ass?
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Do you have a sister? Is she good looking? Is she into Goy Boys? Post me a pic. Thanks.
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...unfortunately. Was it needless to attack him? Not necessarily. But should I be sorry I chose not to engage him constructively? Ummm...who cares? The fact that it was only a matter of time before someone entered this TB providing random theories and links to every consiracty site was only a matter of time. And like I said way up above, it's been done before, debated before, and debated BETTER by many others. And nowhere in here have I expressed that I'm convinced there was not a 9/11 conspiracy. I'm certainly not convinced that there was. (I'll bet you didn't know that the 9/11 Truth Movement has some issues with the views expressed on these boards because they don't coincide with their own. Agendas. Everyone has got one.) Anyway, I don't believe I've ever "sabotaged" a TalkBack in my life. (Though I certainly would have liked to destroy a few.) In fact, I've only ever tried to steer them towards rationality and common ground. So, if you have to call me a "Zionazi" because I called someone else a cunt (or some such word), may I remind us both that we are on the AICN TalkBack message boards and that you loosen your sphincter. And if you haven't noticed my "personal animosity towards zfisk', I must not be doing a very good job...
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Have fun watching Fox News. Which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Who publishes The Weekly Standard. Whose editor is William Kristol. Who is a founding member of PNAC. Whose father was a founder of the Neo-Conservative Zionist movement.
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...for using "only a matter of time" twice in the same sentence.
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Nice shot, brokeback. But you missed.
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BWWWaaHHHaaaahhAAhhHHaaa
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Your post unintentionally points out the problem with Israeli politics. I know that Peretz is Labor, and now, the defense minister. But you probably know that Israeli politics is among the dirtiest around. When Ariel Sharon, who was a hero of the right, was seen giving any land to the Palestinians, he was relentlessly attacked. His negotiations with Mahmoud Abbas, which could have achieved at least a step towards peace, was, in the eyes of the right, a betrayal and led to Kadima's defection and the fall of the Likud party. Who knows who sent those soldiers into a situation where they could be kidnapped? They were made bait, and Hezbollah took it. Now Olmert and Peretz have to prove themselves by being as vicious (or in the mind, 'decisive') as possible against Hezbollah, even at the expense of Lebanon's innocent people. It's insanity. The right-wingers planned this scenario, and they are playing it. In Israel, it doesn't matter who is PM. The Zionists determine the action.
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Conversely, why aren't you holding Hezbollah responsible for crossing the border, killing 8 Israeli soldiers, and kidnapping the other 2?
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...on synagogues and churches. You know, just kickin' it with the guys.
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you might as well just crawl back in your mommys uterus. really. go do that now. because you will never be a man or go through any conflict. sissy. your whole life is a joke..you are the boy in the plastic kosher bubble..
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Jul 26, 2006 1:22:13 AM CDT
If the Multi-username Conspiracy is your only defense..
by mr nice gaius
...in life, you might as well just shoot yourself in the mouth. Really. Go do that now. Because you will never be sane and will never stand your ground when confronted. Moron. Your whole life is a joke...you are the lone nut in a room full of elephants.
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it's like a coupon you can use to get discounts everywhere...to not pay "full price" like the others.. to get off scot-free..from birth to death.. almost sounds like the perfect crime.. waitaminute....
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you are a dribbling loon- do you honestly believe there is a zionist conspiracy on a talkback in a movie site? There is no point asking why you believe this. It must be because the green pixies are telling you it's true. Now, Take your pants off your head and up your thorazine dose. The voices will stop- honest. BTW I have looked at your blog. Funny stuff- even if it is a bit insane
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Not 'funny' hysterical. I mean, you're literally hysterical. Def: 'characterized by or arising from psychoneurotic hysteria'. I'll continue on until you feel the need to compile Brokebackcowboy's Greatest Hits Volume II. I hope the sequel is better ...
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Of course Hezbollah was wrong to kidnap those soldiers. And I do oppose many of Hezbollah's tactics - the killing of innocent civilians their most egregious of crimes. But since when did Israeli soldiers ever get put in a position where they could be so easily attacked and kidnapped? They were bait, put there for a reason ... to initiate a plan that was devised last year. See my post above about this. So I do agree that Hezbollah is completely in the wrong. However, Israel has historically shown great skill at inciting Hezbollah when they feel the need to restart violence in order to sabotage negotiations. Like I said, the Zionists want nothing but eternal conflict, to kill off the Palestinians through attrition and slow, methodical genocide.
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of painting swastikas on synagogues and churches? Who paints swastikas on churches?
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That was actually a humorous post. You must not be one of DocPazuzu's aliases.
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Is it true they make an anti-semite card? Does it give you discounts at Best Buy and Ben's Deli? Just ignore them, ZFisk. The reason why they're calling you all sorts of names is because that's what people do when they have nothing to back up their argument, no morality to support anything they say or claim, and have this pathological need to defend Israel (in words, of course - it's not like they are flying their and enlisting in the IDF) no matter how bad she behaves. The reason why they are so vicious towards you is because Israel's behavior is, ultimately, indefensible. So in order to attempt to defend her, they have to resort to name-calling. Because there is no argument to be found. Sad, don't you think?
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I remember arguing with homewrecker before I got banned the first time, which I blame him for- I lost my temper, badly. Anyway I can't be Doc Paz- as a) I got banned & b) I post at work in London.
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See you guys tonight. Just want to repost this earlier post because it's quite relevant to the day's events: Ever wonder why Rumsfeld used mostly National Guard troops in Iraq? Because Iraq was only the beginning, and he used those men and women, put them in harm's way when they were not trained, prepared nor supplied for such a conflict. Thousands of Americans now dead, and tens of thousands of them maimed for life. Rumsfeld was saving the rest of the armed forces for the greater conflict, one that was predicted by Seymour Hersh (who has sources in the Pentagon) last year, and that is now being initiated by Israel with its its attack on Lebanon. They are starting a war with Iran and Syria. For the first time since WWII, nuclear weapons will be used against Iran, once Israel is able to draw Iran and Syria into Lebanon when it starts a full-scale ground invasion. This has already started. Now our troops in Iraq, who are being attacked daily and are dangerously intermingled with resentful Iraqis, will be at risk of being targeted, full-scale, by Arabs. See this article for more, and if you have any sense of humanity, pray this does not happen. No one will win. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14176.htm
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"Who knows who sent those soldiers into a situation where they could be kidnapped? They were made bait, and Hezbollah took it. Now Olmert and Peretz have to prove themselves by being as vicious (or in the mind, 'decisive') as possible against Hezbollah, even at the expense of Lebanon's innocent people. It's insanity. The right-wingers planned this scenario, and they are playing it. In Israel, it doesn't matter who is PM. The Zionists determine the action."
Uh, I hate to break it to you but there is no monolithic "Zionism".
The "Zionists" determining the action right now are not any more "right wing" than the majority of the Israeli public. So which "right winger" in Israel colluded with Rumsfeld et al and "planned" for the soldiers to be kidnapped? Sharon? Netanyahu? Mossad 'black ops' agents? Please elaborate.
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Money quote: "But since when did Israeli soldiers ever get put in a position where they could be so easily attacked and kidnapped? They were bait, put there for a reason ... to initiate a plan that was devised last year." -- Ha! I hope you know that I know that this is utter shite. Put there for bait? Not hardly. And you have no proof of that whatsoever. You won't find it on TruthOut, Commondreams (which I do read btw), or even InfoWars. Did Israel have a contingency Hezbollah attack plan already in the pipeline? I'd be willing to say, "Hell yeah they did". And I'd also be willing to bet that it's older than a year. I'm afraid that's what war planners do. Like the US: we've got war plans for EVERYBODY. Doesn't mean we intend to use them.
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I NEVER leave home without it and the interest rates are incredible!!!
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Ariel Sharon? Most likely not since he's in a coma and was the one who sought negotiations with Abbas. Binyamin Netanyahu? That would be a good guess. Bibi is as zealous a right-winger as they come and his involvement is nigh assured. Gaius: As for proof ... what, you think the Neocon/Zionists leave breadcrumbs for us to pick up? If you have any sort of analytical mind, or even a shred of common sense and a penchant for keeping up with current events beyond watching Fox News or CNN, you could easily discern what is unfolding. And if you do read Commondreams.org, why are you even asking? Maybe you're just being glib. Okay, then, carry on.
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...maybe you are just being glib. And now you're gonna throw around some old tired CNN & Fox News references in an attempt to accuse me of "living in the dark"? Because if Commondreams can figure it all out, surely then the Neocon/Zionists must be leaving a trail, right? Come on, dude.
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"Bibi is as zealous a right-winger as they come and his involvement is nigh assured." Proof? Oh yeah, those fiendishly clever Neocon Zionists NEVER will leave clues. But any Commondreams reader can figure it out easily...
Anyway, so Bibi and the other right wingers have hatched this plot and Laborites like Peres and Peretz just take the bait. Someone should e-mail them a link to Commondreams... -
Where do you get your "facts" from? Bill O'Reilly? Or maybe Sean Hannity, who is running the poll asking people if they believe there were any WMDs in Iraq? If there were, where is the evidence? Evidence is not a strongsuit of Fox's so I'd say your ability to discredit me is severely hampered. And why would you say Bill Clinton isn't fond of Jews. What was Monica Lewinsky, a Shiksa? I am not going away no matter how hard you wish it, little Zionazi. You might as well crawl back into your parents' room, turn on Fox News, and jack off to Ann Coulter, your Shiksa Goddess.
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How do we even know Sharon is really in a coma. I bet the whole 'dismantle Gaza settlements and then lapse into a coma four months later' routine was just a sneaky neocon zionist ruse. Right now, Sharon is probably somewhere with Rumsfeld, Murdoch and Kristol cooking up the next stage in getting us into World War III.
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Look who is throwing around infantile insults now...
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I originally thought you might be someone worthwhile talking to, but you've proven once again that a Zionist has to resort to empty glibness when they have no argument to offer up. After the death of Yassir Arafat, Sharon had a golden opportunity to strike a peacedeal. The fact that he is in a coma now is tragic, not something to be made fun of. As for Bibi, Rumsfeld, Murdoch, Kristol and all the Zionazis cooking stuff up ... hey, what do you think an AIPAC convention is for?
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Sometimes you have to respond in kind. In any case, I have to give Anchorite plenty of material to compile the next time. I don't like to disappoint my little Zionazi groupie.
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Though I suspect that I feel a lot worse about Sharon's condition than you do (the world's great lovers of humanity were on the verge of hauling him off to the Hague, if you recall). I was just being a bit sarcastic about the usual anti-neocon paranoia. If Sharon HAD made the peace deal, do you think Iran, Syria and Hezbollah would have laid down their arms? Abbas can't even control the Hamas-led government and prevent missile attacks from Gaza into Israel.
Anyway, so Bibi (and unidentified others) cooked up this plan at an AIPAC convention and everyone elase in the Israeli government is still in the dark? -
There is no doubt you felt worse than I do about Sharon, but regardless of his past crimes (shooting and bombing innocent people is never a pardonable offense, you would agree), his attempt at striking an accord would have, in the greater scheme of things, been a start towards reconciliation. It could have prevented more bloodshed. It would have been worth a try. One can imagine the progress that could be made if Hamas and the Right-Wing Zionists stay out of it, but unfortunately they are integral to the process. Their hard-line tactics are, to say the least, disruptive. But this in no way excuses what Israel has done - from a human rights standpoint - to the Palestinians and innocent bystanders (like Rachel Corry). Murder, plain and simple.
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Why Laborites and former Laborites are implementing the plans of Bibi and other unnamed right-wingers?
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Did it ever occur to you that maybe Monica Lewinsky might have been a Mossad plant to sabotage Bill Clinton's presidency? Hatched with the help of a confirmed and proud Zionist like Newt Gingrich? Well, maybe not. Maybe she just really, really liked Bill and kept the dress as a keepsake like all women keep their stained clothing. BTW, I never said anything about anal sex with Jewish women in general. Just your and Yackbacker's sisters. And what is this lunatic conspiratorial diatribe about anal sex being "an expression of hateful aggression and physical dominance"? Maybe in your household. I think it's time you lost your virginity, Anchorite.
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the anal sex reference is pretty much standard psychologist speak. I would post a link for you but I can't be arsed. (No pun intended). It is something to do with dominance. I only keep coming back here as I think this is one of the funniest (and most crazy) TB's I have seen in ages. Heh. I wonder how long it will keep going before everyone gets banned. Why on earth would anyone want to put themselves through an Oliver Stone film about 9/11, the whole thing is beyond me.
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I wonder who Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers et al were working for...and please don't mention Zionists and anal sex - I get these hideous visions of Golda Meir.
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You may have heard about Israel deliberately killing UN soldiers today. And you may recall the leaflets they dropped on the Lebanese warning them to leave, but that their minivans, trucks and motorcycles will be considered legitimate targets. Those Israelis ... what a bunch of pranksters.
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When Anchorite talks about Zionists and butt-love, it reminds me of Jeff Gannon and his midnight visits to the White House.
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Why would Israel deliberately target the UN? It's not like they are going to go away or anything and does nothing to enhance Israel's image.
I still don't know why Peres and Peretz are doing Bibi's bidding.
The bimbo/spy connection reminds me of this SNL skit:
http://tinyurl.com/nndec -
Glad you're being entertained. I hope you agree I can take a good reaming. You mentioned earlier that you're in London - you don't sound like a Brit. Are you an American Werewolf in London? What's the mood there now with regards to this bombing of Lebanon? I usually read the Guardian and BBC (and Haaretz from Israel) for the usual Liberal propaganda.
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That's a question that was posed on the BBC News interview with an Israeli spokesman this morning. Israel denies that the bombing of the UN HQ was a mistake, but the interviewer pointed out that the installation had been there for 20 years. And since Israel is so careful with its surgically accurate targeting systems, there is little question that it was intentional. Their excuse was they had left Lebanon in 2000 but the UN station was clearly marked, had sustained contact with Israel about its location since the bombing started, and again, was known to Israel from way back. Now what would it accomplish? Israel, despite proclaiming the opposite just yesterday, does not want UN interference in its plans. It wants free rein to level Lebanon. Any UN intervention is seen as enabling Hezbollah to continute arming itself. So innocent people be damned, in this operation. And with John Bolten (also a PNAC member) now the still un-confirmed US Ambassador to the UN, one can deduce that he sanctioned the strike.
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Israel denies that the bombing of the UN HQ was intentional ... not "a mistake".
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The Iran/Contra cronies are monitoring this site even as we write. You'd better learn to shut up if you want to keep your freedom.
(Saddly, that's probably true! - and some of you support this! Bwhahahahaha! Idiots.) -
The UN is going to leave now? not likely. And you still haven't explained how John Bolton was in on the whole invasion plan and the Defense Minister of Israel wasn't.
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Thanks for the advice. But how is a forum in a geekfan website going to make any difference in the world? In the meantime, you can check out this interesting tidbit. Looks like the Neocons wants Condaleeza Rice out of the State Dept. Amconmag.com Newt Gingrich, Zionazi puppets of the highest order, don't like Rice getting in the way of an attack on Iran.
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...may be the only reason we haven't nuked Iran already.
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whatreallyhappened.com
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I don't view the attack on the UN as provoking them to leave, but to prevent any more UN troops from entering Lebanon. Peretz is likely overseeing the whole operation in Lebanon. I would like to think that the attack on the UN was not at his direction but ordered by someone else.
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I think that is highly probable.
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is Peretz to be held responsible for all of the military operations or just the ones that particularly
condemnation-worthy? Amazing the way people reading websites know more than high Israeli government officials. -
I really don't like typing your name but thank you for the link. Too bad Oliver Stone didn't check out the site before making his film.
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If you read carefully, or at all, I said I would like to think that Peretz, who is Labor, was not the one who ordered the hit. Amazing the way people can't read the simplest of sentences.
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From CBC Radio: Canadian retired major general discussing the death of a Canandian peacekeeper, one of four killed at the UN outpost whom he knew: " We recieved emails from him a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical neccessity not being targeted. Now, that's veiled speech in the military. What he was telling me was Hezbollah "soldiers" were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished." What a shocker!!!!
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Let's assume that to be the case, that Hezbollah fighters were using UN positions as shields. What is the dire need to fire on those UN positions? Is that a smart, even legal, military strategy? Or is it a careless assault on an enemy no matter how much "collateral damage" or innocent death you cause? Because I happen to think that is wrong. It is the same kind of thinking that makes me feel that terrorism is wrong too.
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"I would like to think" that Peretz would resign if his orders are being ignored or countermanded.
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cnn is now a joke.. having just hosted the sqaulid Walid Shoebat, the Zionazis' fast talking/dr phil/carpetbagger/charlatan/lapdog for hire.. well now cnn is no longer "the most trusted name in news" this fraud claims to be a "Former PLO Terrorist."(yeah. because that's what the PLO calls itself) Shoebat's fantasy story about being a former 'terrorist' has never been independently confirmed, yet he tours the country and the world speaking to or hosted/sponsored by juwesh organizations and/or right wing groups, raking in thousands of dollars in speaker fees, peddling his zionist-installed view that islam isnt a legit religion/faith of course, the vapid redheaded cnn female host never bothered to ask why this man never uses his real name, age, DOB, etc. why is that...'shoebat' is just the latest fictional "david manning" spokesperson with the right ethnic makeup to rip the jihadists, so the israelis can point and say "see, look at him! even he agrees!" CNN is milking this cow from all its udders/orifices, even hyping the endtimes rapture angle/bookcircuit to christians......here's the arabic uncle tom selling Shill o'dummy his wares...http://youtube.com/watch?v=x6dYXXdiBBA
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They were lobbing rockets into Israel thinking they wouldn't be responded to. That tells you something: they know Israel DOES try to avoid the trgedy of civllian deaths. Hezbollah of course sees that as weakness. Decision time: Allow Hezbollah to keep tossing rockets over one by one and hope they get bored and go away OR bring the hammer down and end it.
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You might try using un-altered names and reference points zfisk/homewrecker if you are trying to engage in this discourse. Not that you would know how to do that. Cocksucker.
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No where was it reported that anyone, other than the IDF itself, claimed that Hezbollah was shelling from near the UN outpost. The UN officers were in direct contact with the IDF for the six hours prior to the deadly bombing and they were told it would stop. That makes the IDF murderous liars. But what do you expect from a bunch of psychotic baby-killers anyway? If you're going to defend them, at least be honest. If you advocate the killing of innocent people, just say so, Zionazi.
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I'm sure the news of Lance Bass' outing has made your day. Now you can come out of the closet along with all the other closeted Right-Wing homosexuals like Ken Mehlman, William Kristol, Jeff Gannon and Rick Santorum. You will no longer have to satisfy yourself pretending Ann Coulter is a transexual even though she looks like one, and fully embrace the anal sex you fearfully avoided.
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but zero substance. Btw, the UN is supposed to be a peacekeeping presence...why no attempt to stop Hezbolla right outside their front door? Because they don't care either. The UN flag flies right next to the Hezbollah. There's your precious UN for you.
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To have ionized your little bullshit smokescreen of a post there about Hezbollah shelling from a UN outpost, and making you double back and make up some other excuse for the IDF to bomb innocent people, people who were not shooting at them. Maybe you need to brush up on your lying skills. At least you're a step closer to being an honest fascist and not a two-faced hypocrite. Let everyone know how little you think about human life, so you can get back to posting about comic books and TV cartoons or whatever else you do. Or maybe you should summon enough balls to go to Israel and do what you're cheering others to do - kill innocent people.
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...like the retired Canadian major general recieving emails from his friend in that very UN observation post isn't good enough for you. OOPS! Of course...he must be a Zionist pig. Oh well, not expecting any verification from somebody YOU would respect like say Mahmoud Ahmadinejad...so I guess it's an impasse. Douche bag.
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Last post for the night - see you tomorrow. Anchorite, you're still as hysterical as ever. Coming out is not easy but it's clear it's taking a toll on your virgin mind. Maybe you need a good reaming from Doctor Who to help ease your transition. Doctor Who, there is no impasse. You're a liar. What you posted was a lie. As for the both of you calling me a Hezbollah supporter and a fan of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, I appreciate your showing me how much I have affected you. It makes all this typing worthwhile.
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Mahmoud's that is. Totally interchangeable. I personally think your not saying everything you'd REALLY like too
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You compiled 70 of my posts and begged people not to read my anti-Israel rants, and you still think I haven't said everything I really wanted to say? Tell me then, what do I really want to say? Because I've spoken my mind pretty clearly.
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...that Israel should should be utterly wiped out. Let er rip Mahmoud
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For someone like you, who has a simple worldview, that might make sense. I think it's pretty easy to assume that there's a better chance of you saying that the Palestinians should be utterly wiped out. There are a great many differences between me and you Zionazis. I value life.
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I have zero animosity toward any "people". It's hate filled ideologies I despise. I happen to think the Palestinian people have been killing off their best and brightest for decades. This warped pathology that tells their kids to find glory in blowing themselves rather than finding other solutions that have plauged them for about 80 years or so.
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I find it disheartening to hear someone say that they despise the mentality of a people who have had their country stolen from them, their homes destroyed, their entire population herded into refugee camps set on barren, unsustainble land, their people killed and kidnapped indiscriminately, and criticize them for having a "warped pathology". That term is more apt for the oppressor, whose own children write hateful messages on bombs to be used on them. And to suggest that it is the responsibility of the victim to find their own solution - that's very telling about your own twisted mentality. I ask you this - what if the Jews actually fought back against the Nazis? They too would have had a warped pathology, from your point of view.
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I passed out there for a while. But let's see, here, what do we got--Oliver Stone 9/11 board, hmmm...uh, do we got the conspiro-mongers? Yeah, yeah, check. Do we got the mind-numbing conspiracy web links? Check. Do we got the miscellaneous other weblinks? There they are--check. Do we got Godwinning? Any Godwinning in the thread? Alright, check. Okay, let's see [eyes move down checklist], Uh, crazy neoconzionazis--Do we got them? Zionazis in the house? Okay, that's a big goddamn check. Uh, we got website links up the ass? Wait, I did that one. Check. Alright. Do we got heated arguments that last for days? We got that, right? Yeah. Yeah we got that--check. Ummmm...Oh yeah. Do we got DocPazuzu kicking the unholy living shit out of everybody? Ah yes. There it is. One last check. Well, looks like the tradition remains strong. Very strong indeed.
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I had already said as much in earlier posts, about the need for mediation to establish peace and nation for the Palestinians, but you willfully chose to ignore them. Whatever. And I had already said that the a successful mediation with the Palestinians would weaken the motivation for any external Arab hostility against Israel. But Israel continues to slaughter the Palestinians. I suggest you watch 3 films back-to-back. Munich, and pay attention to the scenes where Avner talks to the Palestinian in the stairwell, and the scene where he talks to his mother. You remind me of Avner's mother; you don't see what you don't want to see. And watch Paradise Now. You may begin to understand the Palestinians a little better, and their motivations. Arabs may arm the bomber, but Israel creates the man. Don't worry though; it won an Oscar so it's kosher. And watch Arna's children, a gut-wrenching doc that shows how Israel - and not Palestinian fathers and mothers as DoctorWho claims - have guided Palestinian children towards a path of violence.
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Thanks for the review. I especially like this one: "Zionazis in the house? Okay, that's a big goddamn check." But maybe the 'Nazis, Bombs and Titties' Talkback will be more to your liking.
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That's because I AM everybody, including you and brokedick -- haven't you heard? It's all here: www.homewrecker-returns.blogspot.com
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Welcome back, DocPaz. Long time no see. I was beginning to think ZFisk got the better of you. Don't let him rile you too much, he's harmless. How can someone who makes Superman Returns spoofs possibly be so bad? Anyway, check out this site: http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2005/07/zionazi-racial-science_03.html It shows how the Zionazis, like the Radical Christian Right, likes to throw science into the toilet to perpetuate their own megalomaniacal, totally racist, agendas.
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We beat the "Nazis, Bombs and Titties" TB for Top Talkbacks. I didn't think that would be possible. Anchorite and DoctorWho, let's have some beers.
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It's incredulous that anyone would cite Wikipedia as Gospel, considering it's basically a medium for dueling propagandists, at least when it comes to political issues. You have to take any Wiki article with a grain of salt. Thanks for accusing me of vandalizing Wikipedia, too. I don't even have an account, and I'm too busy talking to you. By the way, the ancient Omegans, from a star system 8 light-years away, who used to occupy New Paltz, want it back. Time for you to start packing.
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...but what's more to the point is how you don't see how encouraging your own children to strap on a belt of home made explosives packed with ball bearings and rat poison, walk into a pizza parlor or a crowded bus of families and kids...and detonating it...is not not the epitome of a "twisted act". Talk about bad karmic repurcussions. I don't care what anybody evr did to me OR my country OR my relatives...I would never ever send my child to butcher themselves. It's grotesque beyond measure. Since the days of Arafat they have embraced this barbaric tactic. Life is precious and to be nurtured. Hezbollah, Al Qaeda et al. are cults of death.
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...you're a total cunt. You refuse to debate points brought up by others and resort to merely repeating the same old tired claims instead of defending them from criticism. Your websites are discredited as soon as you post them yet when that happens, you either ignore it or post links to other, similarly demented or extremist sites. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- you've got nothing. I don't who is the saddest; zfisk/homewrecker, who disappears for days on end to avoid even a semblance of debate only to return and post lengthy, bleating and incoherent rants about how there is no basis to the claims of his anti-semitism and homophobia, even though the pointing out of that very proof is what sent him scuttling under his rock to begin with, or you, with your feeble string-pull blanket statements designed to simulate the act of debating. At least zfisk/homewrecker's cowardice is more honest.
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Try reading something unbiased for the alleged "ashkenazi-khazar' link:
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
Some background on Martillo:
http://www.somervillemejustice.com/marriage.html -
between the Hamas/Hezbollah/al-Quaeda suicide bomber shaheed/indoctrination social phenomena and a few kids writing messages on a missle.
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How can any of you condone the killing of innocent civilians by either side ? Also, I hardly see how what happened 2000-odd years ago matters ? Large parts of the world have changed hands since then - Are you Americans going to up and leave, placing 'your' country in the hands of the Native Americans who still exist ?
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m2298 just owned you again on your latest website attempt.
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Yes, the world changed a lot in 2000 years. However, the people who would become the first modern Israelis and Palestinians began arriving in the area in large numbers at roughly the same time during the British mandate. Prior to that, most of Palestine was occupied by bedouin tribes who still live in Israel today with no problem. So, BOTH peoples have legitimate claims to the area which is why a two-state solution is the best option.
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I think it is impossible to reason with any of you from a human rights standpoint because the core of your thinking lies in a fascist mentality. You think some Israeli children writing hate messages on missles that will kill dozens or even hundreds of people in a matter of hours has less of a "karmic repercussion" than a suicide bomber? You think that demonizing and subjugating a whole populace of Palestinians is okay, that committing genocide is alright? As for saying that I am "repeating old tired claims", I am humored because the only old tired claims I ever hear are from Zionazis whose every argument starts with the cliche' "Israel has a right to defend itself". Anchorite, I take back my suggestion to you - don't watch those films. I don't think your brain is capable of processing their messages. Just stick with Delta Force or True Lies.
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I'm surprised that, throughout this TB, Anchorite is putting up a better fight than you are. Maybe your preoccupation with 'ownership' is a handicap rather than a source of motivation. Because you are seriously coming up short, as is clearly evident in this TB.
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Don't sniff that cart of horseshit DocPazuzu just put on your doorstep about the Bedouin Tribes being the sole occupants of Palestine before the Jews got there after WWII. It is the lie that Zionazis have been shoveling out for decades. Of course they would like to THINK the story is true, and hope that if you say it long enough, people will believe it. Good thing we've got the Internets and textbooks to decontaminize that horseshit.
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And... does writng messages on missles have less of a karmic repercusion than the sadistic random bloodfest of a suicide bomber??? YES. YES. YES. In all sincerity, I find it astonishing that you cannot see that.
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this review of "World Trade Center" was posted over at SF's Indybay.org:
Having gotten an invitation to an advance screening of Oliver Stone -
I appreciate your honesty. Let's agree to disagree on that one point. I find it equally astonishing that you cannot see my point either, but that's natural. And Munich was one of the best films of the last 10 years, without question. I give it a Certified Fresh rating.
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Thanks for that lead to the review. I'll be sure to check it out, as well as the movie. I hope the film spurs good Americans to form some intelligent debate about the official story.
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Don't take my or brokedick's word for it -- read up on it. You'll find I'm right about the ethnic and religious make-up in the area in an historical context.
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yeah, i hope it leads to "good" americans debating the subject because NIST, members of the 9/11 Comission and current Kevin Barret basher Wisconsin Rep. Steve Nass all have refused debates when asked.
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...anyone reading this talkback can quite clearly see how points are presented, what the points are, and how they're argued against, and exactly WHO it is who then proceeds to ignore said arguments and repeat himself ad nauseum. As for anchorite, I don't feel the need to repeat what he puts forward so well, even given the few points I disagree with him on. Besides, he IS me, so I'm actually the one arguing with you (also me).
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Remind you of anyone, brokedick?
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I don't mind disagreement. I couldn't change your mind if I tried. What I'm interested in is clarity! Right now in the world ...as I've always said...we have bad options and much worse options. Clarity is needed.
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Because they are part of the cover-up. When even the widows of the victims of that terrorist attack attempt to further the investigation, they're called "whores" and "gold-diggers" by the right-wing. The depths of the right-wingers' ugliness is endless. But the simple explanation is that they are psychotic. The good thing is that the lunacy portrayed by the extremists are clearing the eyes of the moderate Republicans - I have had many conversations with them. Anyway, I have to go out but I hope to talk to you again soon. Peace.
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You guys are still carrying on down here?
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"Good thing we've got the Internets [sic] and textbooks to decontaminize that horseshit."
Well if I read it in a textbook or (especially) on the internet it MUST be true :)
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The right sees the left as wrong, even dangerously wrong. But they never discount their humanity. After all, their intentions are good. The left however, sees the right...as you put it...psychotic. Or inhuman, racist, bigot, homophobe etc Once you do that, you can instantly dismiss them as not worthy of engaging in debate. Simple. The narcissism of the SOME on the left is such that THEIR OWN feelings and compassion, however well intended...trump anybody elses ideas or thoughts and it renders themselves incapable from making any truly difficult decisions or judgements on issues that have...as I said...bad options and much worse options. Serious people don't shy away from the ugliness that is starting to boil over in the world today. www.obsessionthemovie.com Summer 2006
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Brokeback, thanks for the heads up on the "Nazis, Bombs and Titties" TB. But I'm more of a legs man. DocPazuzu, I thought that homewrecker discovering we were the same person would have blown over by now, but it appears he has used the highly underregulated medium of the internet to expose the truth to the public...DAMNit.
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You're a MedHead? You're actually a listener of a HOMOSEXUAL FASCIST ZIONIST radio host? Why am I not surprised?
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I hope DocPazuzu sends you that memo telling you what you're saying wrong. G-d Forbid you actually have to form an opinion of your own. And if you are getting your material from DocPaz, I suggest you find a more competent source.
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Let's not go all pseudo-pious about Israel. It does not care about how many civilians they kill to get a single terrorist. If they have to slaughter a family of 15, bomb their house into oblivion with their flesh torn to pieces, men, women, young and old, just on the mere suspicion that a terrorist is hiding in their backyard, they do it. So in that scenario, they are "not specifically trying to kill the civilian populace". But that's just a technicality. On the other hand, razing their farms so they cannot eat and preventing medicines from reaching the ill, that's just another method of murder. As for who was in Palestine first, let's not haul in more shit into the room. The Palestinians were indeed there first - they were betrayed by the Balfour Declaration when, even after a massive wave of Jewish immigration into Palestine, they STILL COMPRISED 90% of the populace. Do the math, idiot. Basically, the Zionists and the British punked King Faisal and the Palestinians were condemned to expulsion or genocide.
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Good post. The Left also sees the Right as wrong - and pretty much dangerously wrong, too. Because the Right shows a great tendency towards destructive behavior. From everything from civil liberties, the environment, human rights, war and violence, corporate malfeasance, exploitation of the masses, the deliberate disintegration of our government and rule of law, and so on, the Right's attitude ranges from cavalier to apocalyptically destructive (and I'm not even exaggerating). I honestly believe that you understand the prime motivation on the Left to be compassion, and sometimes we are blinded by it. But there are some issues - like advocating state-sanctioned murder - that calls for an outspoken denouncement, and for telling the truth. Some on the Right can't handle the truth. There are those on the Right who exhibit confoundingly psychotic behavior, like Ann Coulter, whom I mentioned. Anyone who can call the widows of the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attack "whores", "gold-diggers" and "witches" is psychotic - and that is being kind. In fact, she's a traitorous cunt whose allegiance to American ideals is completely in a void. And there are other right-wingers, who have so much contempt for the Left that they would rather blather about like the Dittoheads (or Medheads) they are instead of trying to speak like a normal human being when confronted with important issues that need a sound resolution. A scan of Anchorite and Yackbacker's early posts in this TB provides a good example.
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Your characterzation of the right is a stereotype and discounts their humanity as I stated. The right hates minorities(civil rights); the right wants dirty air and water(environment);exploitation of the masses( examoles please...)corporate malfeasance( please, this happens ALL across the political spectum)the right wants war( to the left, NO war or violence is ever justified, even if innocents die.) Some on the left are ok with innocents living under murderous regimes...as long as "stability" and the "status quo" isn't upset. And so on...You say the right ranges from "cavalier to apocalyptically destructive"...you see, no middle ground with you. Why wouldn't you reserve "apocalyptically destructive" for someone like Ahmadinejad who said " GOD WILLING, WITH THE FORCE OF GOD BEHIND IT, WE SHALL SOON EXPERIENCE A WORLD WITHOUT THE UNITED STATES...THIS GOAL IS ATTAINABLE AND CAN SURELY BE ACHIEVED." Have you ever heard any Western country use such rhetoric? But in your mind, Bush, Rumsfeld et al. are pure evil. That is breathtaking to me. Exercise a little clarity and perspective.
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She was way over the top on that one. But two points 1)Air America idiots say vile, intolerant, hate filled things about the right costantly. The left gets a pass don't they? 2) Ann Coulter larger point was spot on: 9/11 widows, Cindy Sheehan etc..."we lost loved ones, we are greiving, we've had tragedy...don't you dare question us,criticize us or even look at us the wrong way. WE get the microphones and the cameras and are above all criticizm!" How dare they! You put yourself in the public arena like that, your fair game baby. This is America, you ain't better than anyone else.
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Like I said, don't take my or brokedick's word for it -- read up on it.
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Unfortunately, technology hasn't (nor will it ever) reach a point where civilian casualties are entirely avoidable, so when someone attacks the very idea of collateral damage, they are logically in fact denouncing warfare of any kind for any reason. However, such is rarely the case with those howling the loudest about collateral damage. In brokedick's case, it serves a very specific political purpose: robbing western liberal democracies with market economies of their right to defend themselves. I would have much less problem with someone who professes outrage and horror over civilian deaths vis-a-vis the Middle East and criticizes the non-Israeli players equally (or at all, for that matter) since that speaks for the person's true humanitarian convictions. People like brokdick (and GingerTwit & zfisk/homewrecker), though, really have no problem with the deliberate targeting of civilians as long as those civilians are the citizens of said western liberal democracies with market economies. The killers can openly espouse the most anti-humanistic, anti-progressive, anti-female, anti-gay, anti-democratic, anti-pluralistic, anti-intellectual, pro-apocalyptic totalitarian, racist, oppressive views and goals imaginable, but to brokedick this is of less importance than the fact that these "heroes" are sticking it to the opponents of such ideologies/theologies. It's hypocrisy on a staggering scale yet insidious in its focused purpose. The accidental or inadvertent death of civilians is portrayed as worse than the deliberate murder of civilians with the help of verbal and semantic acrobatics which would have made Goebbels and Stalin proud. If we're to discuss an industrial/post-industrial nation's true indifference to civilian deaths, we need look no further than Russia's war in Chechnya. While I rejoice in the death of scum like the recent offed Shamil Basayev, there is still no excuse for how the Russian troops are conducting their war. However, the reason we don't hear brokedick & Co screaming about that war and the atrocities committed by the Russian troops is that they simply don't give a shit since Russia by all accounts ISN'T a western liberal democracy. The openness of western democracies appeals to the innate intellectual laziness of brokedick because all the mechanisms conducive to making one's voice heard without repercussions are in place. You never see them in the activist avant-garde protesting the actions of dictatorships or totalitarian organizations. To this they would reply "well, the West IS dictatorial!", which, besides being utter tripe, doesn't explain why they don't protest nearly as much the countries/organizations who are more conventionally labeled as totalitarian. It's shameless hypocrisy, nothing more.
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As usual, you completely twisted my words to fit your own characteriztion of the Left. If I wanted to point out examples of the issues I brought up, I would have done so. But you chose, in typical right-wing fashion, to do it and simultaneously belittle those issues. So, you also just demonstrated what I said about the Right - you are, at the very least, cavalier. When you demonstrate some "middle ground", it'll be self-evident, but so far you haven't. And since you want to conveniently discount what I said earlier about radicals of all stripes, I'll repeat it for your benefit. I despise radicals of all kinds - including Arab, Zionist and Western radicals. Very little separates the likes of Bush, Rumsfeld and Ahmadinejad. The lives of innocents menas little to them in their power-mad agendas. But you won't hear me cheering on or defending the actions of radicals and their actions. The Zionazis here, however, have done their best to do so.
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I would like you to cite the vile, intolerant, and hate-filled things they say about the right. Seriously. Because that whole crew doesn't say as much in a year as Michael Savage alone says in a minute. The air waves is filled with hate, and if it's coming from the Left, it's a mild breeze compared to the hurricane from the Right. If you want proof, we can put out dueling links and quotes.
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And nice attempt to discount Ann Coulter's statements. Fuck you, because if anyone has a right to scream at the top of their lungs about the cover-ups that led to the deaths of their loved ones, it is people like those widows and mothers like Cindy Sheehan. The Right had no qualms about exploiting the grief of those individuals along with the world's when it was helpful to them, but when they demand an investigation into the circumstances that caused their loved ones' deaths, they get savagely attacked? I don't presume to be disgusted too much by it, because nothing, no matter how low, the Right does surprises me. And just like a good Zionazi, you have to echo the same slander at them that Fox already has. Let's assume for a moment that their assumptions are correct. That 9/11 was purposely allowed to happen. That the Iraq War was planned long ago, and all that was needed was a reason like 9/11. What would you say to that? What would you say about the intended deaths of thousands of Americans to create the scenario to carry forth those plans? This is what Benjamin Netayahu said about 9/11: "It's very good
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By your feeble reasoning, ANY and EVERY war America would engage in during the forseeable future is the result of a conspiracy. The United States has plans for every conceivable wartime situation involving every nation on Earth, including Iraq. None of this proves that either Pearl Harbor or 9-11 were orchestrated in order to facilitate war. In your mind it's as convenient to use a nation's contingency plans for war as damning evidence as it is to equate zionism (the support for a Jewish state in the Middle East) with nazism. Like I said, focused hypocrisy on an almost unbelievable scale.
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Why not a thorough investigation, then? Why did the administration block the investigation? Why couldn't Bush answer any questions without Cheney to hold his hand in the room? Why haul off the wreckage to the dump before all the bodies were found? Why shout down people who are doing nothing more than asking questions? What is there to hide? Why not transparent clarity? Why only excuses to create a smokescreen? By my feeble reasoning, it's a fucking cover-up.
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You will notice that I don't take issue with Childe Roland's open mind to the whole issue. This is because Roland has in virtually every other subject I've seen him discuss displayed rationality, intelligence and logic. Therefore, even if I disagree with him on certain issues, I know he's neither a loon nor something more sinister. You and GingerTwit and zfisk/homewrecker, however, have displayed all the signs of irrationality, stupidity and illogic, not to mention a sleazy and barely concealed political agenda geared towards bleeding words dry of their meaning, moral relativism as well as the constant and hypocritical attacking of everything western liberal democracies do in relation to dictatorships, terrorist organizations and others of a totalitarian bent. The triumvirate of which you are but one member exhibits all the hallmarks of classic fascist "thought" and/or marxist-leninist rhetoric (funny how the extreme right and extreme left have so much in common, yes?). Even zfisk/homewrecker denounces rationality on his blog ("in the true 'lawyer' tradition, credibility, sanity, logic, and 'credible sources' (i.e. jewish sources)
are everything to DocPazuzu"). You're slime, pure and simple. I don't think you even believe half the conspiracies you claim to. I'm convinced you view them as practical tools to discredit western liberal democracies in all things, nothing more. -
read this:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/743763.html -
Your biggest problems on these boards are your projections on others. You sproud about War being 'ok' because thats what War is. If it wasn't War then it wouldn't be war. So because it's war, there must be acceptance of casualities. It's a crazy circle of brain farts. Just remember the next time you have the nerve to say that I have no problem with Western casualites, because they actually diserve it because they dish it out, that you are doing nothing but fabricating an argument. You're an agressive, Not me. You take a stance against any bleeding heart who speaks out about the sheer scale of evil our world culture is enduring. You are not sane, Doc Pazuzu. You are nothing but a programed drone. You have no logical thought. you have no argument. You have talent, I will give you that. But guess what, It's only at being a jerkwad loser. You should be banable.
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"...the reason we don't hear brokedick & Co screaming about that war and the atrocities committed by the Russian troops is that they simply don't give a shit since Russia by all accounts ISN'T a western liberal democracy." It needed to be stated again.
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...Ahmadinejad." -Brokedick.I thank you for the clarity once again. Once you make a statement like that, all other debate is folly. Staggering. Simply staggering.
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Don't be a dumbass.
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You are, once again, way out of your league. Cutting down on the Pet Pak dog food might help you combat those chemically-induced delusions of adequacy. When you talk about "the sheer scale of evil in the world", you are NOT referring to any movement or country which ISN'T of a western liberal democratic tradition. In fact, the latter are the very embodiment of the "evil" you see. You're a colossal moron who never met a conspiracy he didn't like or believe in. Go back to reading Walter Storch's neo-nazi news sites and the other ones which talk about the moon's gravity being six times that of the Earth's and Kissinger and Bob Hope sharing 19-year-old "human filing cabinet" sex slaves in the White House.
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LOL..Ah the classics never die.
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And it's a good thing, DoctorWho, because this is only the first WTC review... I see a huge talkback war of attrition on the horizon once the reviews started coming in en masse. It's good to know that some ammunition is inexhaustible... ;)
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Indeed. I suppose I should start stockpiling ammo and rations immediately.
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Don't forget your bayonet for the up-close-kiss-kill. By the way, I finally got your message in The Zone. Thanks. And yes, sending messages in The Zone IS like pulling teeth.... Damn you, Herc!
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I finally figured out what was going on...such a pain in the ass. Anyway, my bayonet is already fixed and I'm ready to charge. Into the breach!
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...you bunch are something else. I'll see you next review. This shit never gets old.
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Not if you stray too close to a fault line. You know how wily those Jews are with their secret tectonic weaponry. Stay on your toes, GT.
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You'll be reamed there as well.
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Come on guys, it's so obvious!
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A Navy SEAL instructor once stood on the beach, gazing steadily out to sea before his recruits. After a long period of silence he turned to the men and he asked them: "Do you know what I'm looking for?" No one answered. The instructor looked back out to the dark waters, breathing in the air from the ocean breeze. "I'm looking for a war," he said. Oh...oh my. It's the kind of thing that brings a tear to my eye, and makes me wax a bit poetic. Remember the Great Kong War that lasted a full six months or more before the movie came out, with the rise of His Travesty, Ringbearer9 the Hater King and his horde of minions requiring the efforts of AICNs mightiest heroes to challenge his brutal invasion of AICN's peaceable and loving kingdom? (of course you do) Well these 9/11 TB Wars are all that and more. I like to think of the Great Kong War as something like the Trojan War, with mighty iconic champions locked in pitched battle against each other, and there is something about the epic grandeur of those fevered battles that is utterly sublime (for a talkback on AICN). But these 9/11 tb's are so much more intense. The individualistic feats of those mighty warriors of old are not gone, but here it is much more like WWI trench warfare, with conspiracies and prejudices filling the air like nerve gas, where the Heroes of AICN find themselves surrounded by and pinned down by the barbed wire of ignorance and undiscriminating fire from machine guns of clumsy hypocrisy. Fear not, for the tanks of truth shall prevail, crushing all opposition through the brute force of Reason! Not as elegant as the tactics of the Great Kong War, but a sure path to victory.
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I still agreed with *some* aspects of King Ringbearer's POV upon seeing Kong. I guess that puts me somewhere in the gray area between evil and virtue? Anyway, enough talk of the Kong War--old wounds and all that. I need to focus on the upcoming battles, with my popcorn fresh and ready, because I, like any self-respecting Neconzionazi, find war entertaining in the extreme.
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Ah, old friend, fear not the quibbles with Kong. They vex me as well. However, take heart in the fact, as do I, that these quibbles take not the form of fire being the wrong (right) color, nor that real bat-creatures could never carry Adrien Brody and Naomi Watts the distance traversed by said bat-creature in said film. Brace yourself instead for the onslaught ahead, of which Ringy will surely be a part. Excelsior!
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I don't really know what I think about this movie, but I just wanted to point out that this is the WORST use of grammar and punctuation I've ever seen from Harry. I usually enjoy your reviews, Harry, but lately you seem to not off your game. Maybe you should ay off the booze, or make your girlfriend stop giving you blow jobs while you write. I don't mean to be insulting, but I just thought this was a little much. Besides that, keep up the good work!!
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I do take heart in you pointing this out, for neither the frequency of light emitted by the fire nor the bat-to-Watts weight ratio enter into my Kong quibble equations. I march toward the chaos and darkness brewing on the horizon with renewed spirit.
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Jul 28, 2006 11:24:14 PM CDT
Anchorite - Listener of HOMOSEXUAL ZIONIST RADIO HOST
by brokebackcowboy
I know the humiliation you feel at accidentally outing yourself to be a listener of a HOMOSEXUAL FASCIST ZIONIST radio host must be overwhelming, but don't project your own insecurities on me, pal. It wasn't me who said he was listening to him. It was you. You, Anchorite, who came straight out and said you listen to a HOMOSEXUAL FASCIST ZIONIST Radio Host. Are you Jeff Gannon's roommate? How do you balance your fascist tendencies with your homosexual ones? You're putting a whole new spin on that term DocPaz used earlier -- "Hate-fuck".
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DocSpaz has talent? What talent? You're too kind. He takes a good cockslapping in the face, I'll give him that. And watch his next post - it will start with "Brokedick" and contain something along the lines of "You're a sleazy cunt". And by the way, do be on the lookout for that Secret Tectonic Weapon he warned about. Its code name is 'Jewish Mother-In-Law'. It has the ability to numb all ears within a 100-foot radius and nag you into oblivion.
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Bayonets? Whatever happened to those vaunted Verbal Patriot Missles you guys had? Did Halliburton bait and switch and give you a bunch of Scuds instead? No wonder this has been so easy. 9 against 1, and it feels like I'm playing baseball against the Pee Wee League. I hope you at least have some good rations. Maybe Taco Bell?
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Three posts in a row. Insults and whinning. Zero substance. Yawn. I'm going to bed.
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Why would a reaming require kneepads? Do you actually know what the term "reaming" is? Or are you like the 40-Year Old Virgin who posts about comic books and cartoons on the Internets?
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Don't go man, it's 1 AM and I had a long day. Not the best time for political talk, you know? Gotta recharge batteries, restock the verbal missle launchers ... ah, uhh you know, all that shit.
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That was a very good attempt at a funny TB analogy ... except for one thing. Unlike the Kong War, where whole regiments were in a wild pitched battle, here, it's just this single ole cowboy rustlin' up some rascals. And I'm not convinced you're a "Neoconzionazi". Unless you grab one of Nice Gaius' bayonets and actually cut through my "barbed wire of ignorance" and dodge my "undiscriminating fire from machine guns of clumsy hypocrisy". Otherwise, I hope you enjoy watching the 'war'. But it's more like dirty porn, because all that's going on is a bunch of Zionazis getting facially cockslapped. In Anchorite's case, though, he's liking it and skeeving me out. (No offense to Non-Zionist, Non-Fascist homosexuals ..)
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Gotta head up to Brokeback and herd some sheep over the weekend. Anchorite, you're welcome to come - there's plenty of sheep to keep you busy.
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The Kong Wars vs the WTC wars. Actually, I think the kong wars were so much more fun to read. Plus i was able to chime in there, whereas here, I'm not to sure exactly what the argument is. For all the shit Ringbearer9 got for his Kong trashing, lets understand that the test of time has proven that Crazy toad absolutely correct. I say this because I just so happen to be taking a break from watching King kong right now. I've been watching it ALL DAY and Kong has only just made his first appearance. The film is trash. It was when it came out. It was obvious it would be when the release campaign was in full swing (for those 6 months prior) But those where some good talkbacks. And in the end, I did buy a copy of the DVD. From a bargain bin. for the kids. Hey, the production diaries are now $2. Thats a big drop from $60. I still couldn't justify the cost to shell out for it. Coffee? KK Production Diary? Coffee?? KK Production diary?? It was a great coffee!
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You sleazy cunt.
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I have yet to fully engage you. So, put your horse back in the stable, son. You ain't going riding with me just yet.
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The beauty of those Kong TBs was not really about how "Kong" turned out. It was more about watching Ringy go apeshit (pun intended) over Peter Jackson's cinematic vision: from his apparent misunderstanding of the LOTR story, to how dirty and disheveled the characters were. From the "re-usage" of the Black Gate for the wall on Skull Island, to Jackson's boring choices of color for sunsets and fire. It was truly an amazing display of PJ hate.
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Ringy wasn't right about anything when it came to KK other than that it would underperform at the box office. None of his anal nitpicking of the film was correct or even sane.
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... But what a ride, eh :)
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Just a heads up...
Cspan's schedule now confirms that the L.A. panel discussion on 9/11 will be broadcast Saturday night at 8 p.m. EST. This is the main CSpan channel, not book tv or another, less-viewed, channel (even David Ray Griffin's talk wasn't broadcast on the main CSpan channel).
Webster Tarpley has this message to the 9/11 truth movement (via email):......
Dear Friends --
The Sunday panel discussion from the Alex Jones Los Angeles conference will reportedly be telecast on C-SPAN this coming Saturday evening at 8pm and 11pm eastern time.
This discussion includes Alex Jones, Professor Steven Jones, Col. Robert Bowman, Professor James Fetrzer, and myself.
The mere fact that it has been scheduled pays tribute to the growing strength of our 9/11 truth movement.
I urge you to build the maximum audience for this important event, which represents our best opportunity of counteracting the escalation of the Middle East and North Korean crises towards thermonuclear World War III, by means a strong dose of 9/11 truth.
I call upon each of you to put aside other considerations for the next 48 hours and to mobilize all available forces to make this a turning point in world history. Let it be seen by 100,000,000 Americans, and we can turn the world back from the brink of the abyss.
Webster G. Tarpley".........
Let's rally behind Webster's call to maximize viewership. This airs 5pm-8pm on the west coast. -
may you and your friend continue to do good works..including hopefully a real 9/11 film. expect this cspan event to be on google/youtube by monday. as for the medved devotee here, DocpazanchoriteGaiusYackhack.. i knew you were a phag.. So Michael fucking Medved is "the empire"s ideological mentor? just solidifies the gay neocon zionazi theory, doent it?
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Michael Fucking Medved??? WHA??? And you obviously didn't read and comprehend boast's message here - it's not boast that made an appearance at the symposium which is playing on CSPAN. It's Webster Tarpley. -- So, a movie that depicts what 2 men went through while buried under the rubble of the WTC doesn't count as a "real 9/11 film"? How come their story doesn't count, zfisk? It has nothing to do with the overall 9/11 conspiracy. -- And if my plans change, I too will be watching this broadcast. I believe it better to keep an eye on all points of view. Unlike mother-one-track-mind zfisk/homewrecker here. Dude, you are such a silly hack.
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you illiterate..why would you infer that i thought the post was from Tarpley? it's about an email from Tarpley, stoopid.. i am commending boast for the info because i know who he is. Medved's gay zionist crap has apparently impaired your reading skills.. comprehend that..
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its not a real 9/11 film. it doesnt get to the core of the matter, it doesnt address the main questions; who, how and why. this is a cover-up flick for you PNAC-zionist folks..it serves your purpose- to further bury the truth
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Well, goody-goody two shoes for you, zfisk. Yeah, you found a friend! I'm surprised you didn't say he was Doc Pazuzu. Now, what the fuck does Medved have to do with anything?! -- Oliver Stone has already stated that his movie is NOT A POLITICAL FILM. Why can't you and your fellow mouthbreathers get that through you heads? It's a film about 2 guys trapped in rubble. It's THEIR story. Saying it's a cover-up flick for the PNAC folks must mean that your favorite conspiracy filmmaker must have sold out to their agenda, right?
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Jul 29, 2006 8:04:10 PM CDT
"just this single ole cowboy rustlin' up some rascals."
by 'cholera's ghost
In this particular talkback, it does appear you're the John Wayne (or Achilles, take your pick) of Conspiromongers: Anti-Zionazi Force. But I wish to draw the analogy in more general terms, however, as a veteran of other WTC Talkback Tours of Duty, which have given me a wide perspective on this conflict and its unspeakable horrors. I've seen a lot of action in my time. Maybe not as much as the highly decorated MNG, anchorite, homewrecker, or others. Certainly not as much as the Alvin C. York of AICN--DocPazuzu. But enough to know that you have a lot more arguing to do before you replace other relentless soldiers as AICN WTC Wars All-Time Champion Conspiro-Monger. If that be your desire, or if you are just looking to engage in a more focused campaign within the wider conflict, then good luck on the field of battle. A word of advice: Try to leave the moon's gravity out of it. They dropped that Bomb back in the early campaign. Were you there? I remember it well. It was a crisp day in November, we were on patrol in the north of the latest WTC Talkback, MNG just hooked us up with some smokes he won off some PFC in a poker match with another regiment, and then suddenly the carefully crafted weapon of the Conspiromonger Mad-asshat-ten Project backfired in their own territory igniting a flash that could be seen for months, and they are still trying to rebuild their credulity from the ashes. Unfortunately the fallout isn't going away anytime soon.
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I have a metal plate in my head from the blast wave of incredulity I experienced. I still feel the effects of it temporarily knocking my vocabulary out of whack.
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...your mega-Christian buddy, Mel Gibson, seems to share very similar sentiments to those expressed by you on AICN and your blog. -- http://tinyurl.com/rx3on
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even when gibson is drunk he's correct. awesome. even Brando arrived at the same truths, without Alchohol. and why do you think michael jackson is moving to europe? y'all need to get a clue....the point is you people are the nutjobs. you are going to make the mere invocation of the word a criminal offense. and you are planning to imprison people for it. i expect that kind of warped, deranged thinking/from the Talmud, not US statutes. ever read the Talmud? craziest book ever. Ever watch Glenn Beck? especially this week, what he did to David Weiss of jewsagainstzionism.com? you'll swear Glenn Beck is drunk all the time. but he's not, that's the scary thing. he's just one of the 'chosen people'..drunk or sober. did you know that Harvey Levin has a live-in blonde boyfriend named Andy, who gives massages to stars, while moonlighting on QVC hocking junk? please..
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...I try to make an effort not to watch the talking head/pundits that they use to fill up time on the 24 hour news cycle.
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Dr. James Fetzer brought up one of the single best facts regarding 9/11. It was about the Zacharias Moussaoui trial when the prosecution played the CVR recordings from flt. 93. In the last minutes of the recording, before United flt. 93 crashed into a Pennsylvania field, a passenger is heard urging others to help storm the cockpit and take on the hijackers because "if we don't we die,". Now the problem with this is there is NO WAY this could've been captured on the CVR. A CVR is a COCKPIT voice recorder. COCKPIT, not passenger voice recorder. I'm not making this up. Check with the major news agencies that reported this same thing.
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http://tinyurl.com/fb9ng -- Nowhere in the flight recorder transcript does that ever come up. It's all taken from the cockpit. Not only that, I think he goofed on the cell phone item as well.
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these reporters were present in the courtroom when the CVR was played. Rueters/AP reported it. The article is called "
Jury transfixed by tape of 9/11 plane". Google it. -
"Crashing and banging noises could be heard, interspersed with "ugh" sounds and the sound of breaking glass or dishes" -- Taken from Reuters/AP. Are you gonna tell me now that Fetzer is also an expert on the microphone recording range dynamics of a CVR? Cause it sounds like he's just taking what someone said for granted. It was an ill advised statement on his part.
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http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-04/13/content_567054.htm -- MSNBC reports the same quote -- http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12280813/ --
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Thanks for the laugh. Yes, I too remember that crisp November day. I was but a green recruit here on AICN, and thus didn't see much action at the time. But I have since learned much from the grizzled veterans and am proud to fight at your side. I'm re-upping as we speak.
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...how are things on the funny farm? Brando on Jews: "Oh, the Jews are amazing people. They are truly amazing. I think that per capita, people generally don
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So, Mel Gibson says "Fuck the Jews" and that's supposed to be "awesome"? Ya Mel,way to stick it to the man! Your paranoia is on full display when you say "you (whoever YOU is) are going to make the mere invocation of the word a criminal offense. And you are planning to imprison people for it." Yep. That's what were all hard at work on. Mel spent the night in the slammer cause he was lit-up behind the wheel. Those pesky Jew cops.
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you can now download last nights CSPAN coverage of the Los Angeles 9/11 Truth Symposium panel discussion over at 911Blogger.com. here is the link -- http://www.911blogger.com/2006/07/cspans-coverage-of-american-scholars.html -- CSPAN is also replaying it today at 2:15pm EST / 11:15am PST
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was all over the place. Steve Jones, the gentleman discussing the molten metal, may have been the only one with anything interesting to offer. I'm not sure exactly how involved the 9/11 Truth Movement was with that conference. It seemed more like a commercial for InfoWars and Alex Jones's ego. The main thesis of the evening seemed to be that 9/11 was carried out by a secret "black-ops" or a "shadow government" group. This group basically held President Bush and the existing government hostage (if you will) by threatening to launch a nuclear assault across the globe unless he agreed with their plans (i.e. 9/11). Now, I don't know what the main body of the 9/11 Truth Movement thinks about some of these folks, but if they are going to make a serious concerted effort to put forth their theory, they are going to have to get their story and their shit straight.
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It took me a while, but I finally figured out who the villains of AICN really are. All I had to do was put three and three together: what other evil trio consists of 1) an arrogant, sleazy, totalitarian, megalomaniac leader, 2) a shadowy, reptilian, sexually ambivalent psychopath, and 3) a stupid, clumsy, lumbering brute of a henchman? .... http://tinyurl.com/pgwfl
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and never provide any answers. The simple and central fact that this jihadist, death to the west movement that has been gaining momentum for 30 yrs unchecked, resulting in events like 9/11 is utterly irrelevant to these clowns.
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making money on tragedy is what hollyweird loves to do. F Oliver Stoned.
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And DocPaz, that was great.
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What do you think angers the Arabs more? American Idol or AIPAC's influence on American politicians and business interests? Let's try an experiment. Let's take a poll of Americans and ask them what the fuck Israel has ever done for us. How about bomb the USS Liberty? How about plant every NeoConservative Dick Cheney could find and put them in the White House, and take all the hopes of a new millenium and shit them all down the sewer called "The Plan For A Secure Israel". And let's use the poll's results and draw a national consensus on whether we should continue to support Israel. Because there never was a consensus by the people. America has been "Israel's only ally" by the grace of Washington payola. The people of America never agreed to support Israel. The American people never agreed to link our destiny with that of Israel. What do you think, virgin man?
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Boast, thank you for posting the information about the symposium. Even more important was how you got Nice Gaius to watch it, which was a great achievement. I hope you've inspired other unspoken readers to do the same. There may indeed be indiscrepancies among people who are investigating and theorizing about the events of 9/11, but the official story has far more. And the circumstances of the Bush Administration's actions and intent, especially those revealed by former insiders like Paul O'Neill and Richard Clarke, bring to light the intent they had to push for war and a greater conflict as plotted by the NeoConservatives.
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I hope Israel's 48-hour suspension of air strikes wasn't too much of a disappointment to you armchair war-mongering Zionazis. After all, 37 children all killed in one building is too much even for their propaganists to spin (Fox News reports the incident as a "terrible blow to public opinion"). But not to worry, they'll surely come up with some good fabrication about how one of the dead mothers was a third cousin of a suspected Hezbollah member, and since they shared a kiddie table when they were 8 years old, she was a legitimate target. The carnage should resume on Tuesday for your viewing pleasure.
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Nuttier than the proverbial fruitcake ... "Last week, Jews in the southern city of Shiraz held a pro-Hezbollah rally that was covered by state-run television
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I appreciate your geek-intense metaphors comparing this to other TB wars but I don't see it as anything more than some heated debate. Sometimes overheated, but if you look at the early days of this TB, you'll see who fired the first, most vicious shots at some decent people. And those little Zionazi pussy traitors to America have gone AWOL a long, long time ago. If one were to view this as a 'war' (and I really don't, because that would be depleting the meaning of that word), then Anchorite's confession that he listens to a HOMOSEXUAL ZIONIST radio host (alone in his car, windows darkened) and DoctorWho's reference to KNEEPADS when talking about REAMING are the most gruesome instances of self-inflicted injuries I have ever seen. Certainly more damaging than anything said about the moon's gravity. I hope you're a more worthy opponent and won't follow in their footsteps.
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If you could have come up with one more henchman, you might have made it a photo of the Monarch (and Co.) from the Venture Brothers.
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Man, it must really burn your ass that I watched that 9/11 Conference, huh? Well, I'll say it again since you obviously weren't paying attention earlier, I've participated in these types of TBs for quite sometime now. At this point, it's pretty much old hat. I do my own research and I ask my own questions. And reading up on or watching those folks (i.e. the Conference) is all part of the game. But the overall theory (as I detailed in my previous post) borders something along the lines of the Da Vinci Code - there are gaps in the official story, so they choose to fill those gaps with paranoid conjecture. Like I said before, they need to get their shit straight. -- Now, you can continue to lump me in with the other guys on this board and label us under whatever insulting moniker you choose. But I suggest you start paying a little closer attention to the hypocrisy of your remarks. Otherwise, you're just jamming up my bandwidth.
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As I said in my earlier post, I thought it was great you watched the conference. Whatever you choose to believe afterwards is your prerogative. But I'll say this - there is more than enough proof of a conspiracy than some are willing to admit, because admitting it would be detrmental to their agendas. Never mind that over 3,000 Americans were murdered. To bicker over discrepancies in the little details, that's a smokescreening of the circumstances and facts at large. An investigation into the facts of 9/11 is hardly comparable to the Da Vinci Code. That's another one of your attempts to belittle the debate, and it's not even a good one. As for labeling people with insulting monikers, I'll defer to others here who are far more proficient at it than I. People who spend their sad, pathetic lives trying furiously to 'own' others on a message board like it's their fucking livelihood (that's for you, DocPaz). But you've done one thing right, Nice Gaius. You're a lot nicer to Boast now than you were on July 18. You've got some hope yet, "son".
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Actually, the conspiracy of 9/11 is very comparable to the Da Vinci Code. I've watched the story "grow in the telling". Over time, it's grown bigger and bigger and more outlandish. The fact that there are divisions within the Truth Movement says as much. I would hardly call that an attempt to belittle the debate. In fact, it calls for a more cohesive argument that does a better job of contesting the 9/11 Commission Report. (Again you seem to be jumping the gun regarding the intent of my statements.) Now, I have no doubt that there are certain cover-ups taking place. I also believe, in certain instances, that there are legitimate reasons for this. But that's neither here nor there. The point is brokebackcowboy, don't be too quick to judge someone or what they think because they weren't "nice" to someone else on this board who shares your same view. You have said much, much worse to many more folks than anything I ever directed towards boast (zfisk is and will remain my one exception). And I believe if you go back to July 18th, you'll find that the first salvos were fired by Doctor Who? and boast himself. So, don't worry about me...I'm full of hope. Probably more so than yourself. ;^)
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You seem a little more interested in civilized informal discussion than Conspiromonger foes I have been bloodied by in the past, whose speech resembled nothing worthy of the term "debate". Yes, it's overheated (and reheated, I must say) "debate", but individual spins (from such as yourself, for instance) on the arguments keep things interesting.
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What a fucking joke you are. I tried being civil with you from the very beginning but you chose to set the tone for our "debate" -- that term used very loosely since while you claim to be engaging in one, you refuse to address ANY of the points brought up against you and your ideas. You keep repeating the same things over and over and over.
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...really? A minority group in an iron-fisted theocracy spontaneously decided to demonstrate in support of their fundamentalist government against that government's enemies? Wow, case closed! Israel must be destroyed!
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...is that they virtually never are neutral despite professing that very thing. It's the same thing with Holocaust deniers and others of that ilk. You scratch a bit on the surface and you find right-wing or left-wing extremism every single time. It's THIS which fuels their campaigning, not the search for "truth". They seek to cast just enough doubt on official stories so that their particular political movement will gain a foothold and some momentum. Same thing with "scientists" who support creationism; show me one single case where such an individual isn't affiliated with one religious movement or another. Or scientists who deny the cancer-causing qualities of cigarettes -- how many of them AREN'T employed by big tobacco? This is the difference between someone like Childe Roland who claims to not have enough information to know for sure one way or the other, and the conspiratards who have a very specific extremist agenda in place. Learn the difference and bear it in mind when dealing with these "truth-seekers".
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I would like to see Dicpusoozer, Gaysrus, Dr.Poo, All you monkeys -- JUST ONCE I want to see you say something of the horrendous situation that is taking place with Israel bombing the fuck out of Lebanon, killing hundreds of innocent men, women, children.... Wiping out family's...... Destroying hundreds of thousands of lively hoods. Displacing communities. Making refugees out of common people who once had homes, lives and jobs. Just ONCE I would like to see you guys remark about these little people. Just once. (Forgive the name calling.... I was just having some fun --- besides, you guys do it all the time) Come on guys, lets see you guys show your high morale when it comes to the very real issues of these people you all seem to consider as worthy collateral damage for a bigger and better future. Tell me Israel is just and fair. Share. Come on. All of you. right now. then lets finish this up because this talk back has turned fucking bullshit. Lets inject something of real foundation. You guys NEVER have anything to stand on except the bodies of those you shoot down in this talkback. Lets see your hand. Come ON!!!!
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all over the place at the symposium is, and I think Lt Col. Robert Bowman said it best, "the only TRUTH we know about 9/11 is that we don't KNOW the truth". Dr. Steven Jones was the best presenter of the night. I believe his scientific research regarding the traces of thermate on the steel samples from the WTC buildings will be one of the major reasons 9/11 Truth will break mainstream. I believe we have a limited amount of time before the M.E. crisis escalates beyond the point of no return. I plead anyone/everyone who is on the fence about 9/11 to do your own research on the omissions and distortions of the 9/11 Comission Report. I know for a fact that the only thing that most 9/11 Truthers want is new and real independant 9/11 investigation. We are running out of time folks. Most of you know this administration lied about WMDs in Iraq, lied about New Orleans' levees, distorted and line vetoed enviromental reports...what makes you think they are telling us the truth about the events 9/11? This is the last post i will make on this thread, if you would like to have any CIVIL discussions regarding 9/11, I invite you all over to 911Blogger.com
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Since you were unable to discern my opinions on that matter earlier, let me state them again reeeeaaaalll slowly for you. I think it's absolutely horrible what's happening to the civilians in Lebanon. In every war there is collateral damage, some more than others. If you think ANY amount of collateral damage is unacceptable, then you are against any type of war -- including wars of defense. While I disagree with some of the strategies in this particular case -- especially acting on what at this point seems to be faulty intelligence regarding yesterday's horrible deaths -- there is still an enormous difference between Israel and Hezbollah. You won't see Israelis rejoicing in the streets over the deaths of all those children, whereas if Hezbollah had scored such a hit on Israel, they would celebate the deaths of the children as legitimate targets. This is a distinction you don't give a shit about, of course. Where is your indignation over Russia's war in Chechnya? How about Darfur? Somalia? Or Congo-Kinshasa? You're a fucking hypocrite (besides being an idiot) since the only deaths you care about are those ACCIDENTAL civilian deaths caused by western liberal democracies. The INTENTIONAL killing of civilians at the hands of totalitarian states or organizations is a much lesser crime in your eyes. Since you think Israel should be wiped out, it doesn't bug you in the slightest that Hezbollah spent the last six years lobbing rockets into Israel virtually unopposed despite the Lebanese government's promise to get Hezbollah out of southern Lebanon after Israel's withdrawal in 2000. This is why you are a fucking tool, GingerTwit.
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Well, your quote asking "what the fuck Israel has ever done for us?" reveals your self serving criteria as to why we should help anyobody. Ever. If you saw a women being mugged/raped would you help? I assume you'd shrug it off..."after all...bitch never did anything for me." Assbag! Let's take Taiwan. They have no oil, no natural resources. Still, we've always defended their right to exist independent of China. We do it because it's right. Who lead the way in charity and emergency aid when the tsunami hit?: The US...overwhelmingly! In fact, the big,evil,imperial military was the first to help Indonesia and Sri Lanka. What the hell have they EVER done for us? But now to ISRAEL. Allow me to school your ass: We stand for Israel because it is the ONLY bastion of liberal democratic freedom amidst a sea of dictators and oppresive.tryanical ideologies. EXAMPLES: Number of Jewish countries: 1
Number of Jewish democracies: 1
Number of Arab countries: 19
Number of Arab democracies: 0
Number of Christian or Jewish prayer services allowed in Saudi Arabia: 0
Number of Muslim prayer services allowed in Israel: unlimited
Number of Arabs Israel allows to live in Arab settlements in Israel: 1,250,000
Number of Jews Palestinian Authority allows to live in Jewish settlements in Palestinian Authority: 0...And I thought you said you were for the underdog.
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My heart breaks for these civillian deaths. Each one is a tragedy. Each one has story behind it that we'll never know. Each one has a devastaing impact on these families, and will for generations. Each one is a blow to the solar plexus that I cannot even fathom. That is infiniely more than any Hizbollah terrorist would ever feel. Understand, this considered a PR victory by Hizbollah. They weep for the children, point and cry "murderes!". Yet what about the Israeli grandmother and her grandson killed by a rocket as they sat in their kitchen? THAT WAS INTENTIONALLY RANDOM! No leaflets dropped. No warnings 5 days prior to get the hell out. But that's okay...the Jews must die right. Condi Rice said she was "deeply saddened by the terrible loss of innocent life" You will never EVER hear that from Hizbollah...or you for that matter.
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I just saw your post quoting some self-loathing Jew stating there is a distinction in their mind between Zionism and Judaism. Now I'm not Jewish...don't really know jack about it...but I'm lucky enough to know a wise man who is an expert on this stuff. To boil it down to it's essence...Jews are a people and not only a religion.
When people isolate the ONE Jewish state in the world for sanctions and delegitimizing, they are doing so because it is the Jewish state. And that, quite simply, is why anti-Zionism is simply another form of Jew-hatred. When anti-Israel Muslim students demonstrate on campus chanting, "Yes to Judaism, No to Zionism," they are inventing a new Judaism out of their hatred for Israel. It would be as if anti-Muslims marched around chanting, "Yes to Allah, No to the Quran." Just as Allah, Muhammad and the Quran are inextricable components of Islam, so God, Torah and Israel are of Judaism. Wouln't you feel much better if there weren't so many informed posters here to own your ass on any given day?
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As a Persian, I'd just like to say, from the bottom of my heart: you are truely ignorant.
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DocSpaz, maybe Gingertwit's plea for you to show some humanity towards the Lebanese people should have been taken more as a rhetorical one. Because you can't answer a question properly unless you are well-versed in the subject, and compassion is not one of your strongsuits. The subject at hand is Zionist Israel and its abuses. If you think Russia, the Congo, or Somalia had anything to do with 9/11, then please share your theories. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke as usual. As for Israelis not rejoicing at the deaths of innocent people, you must not be watching the right parades. Not all Israelis support the violence, and not all Arabs support it either. But all are potential 'collateral damage'. Should be nice for you though, to watch it all from the comfort of your mother's basement.
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Thanks. That's one of the nicest things said to me on this TB. I'm not kidding.
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If you're not Jewish, and you "don't really know jack about it", then why would you call Anti-Zionist Jews "self-loathing"? Opposition to Zionism, a racist movement that has harmed more people than you can imagine, is to be lauded. That wise expert of yours must be Alan Dershowitz. In which case you need to be discussing something else, maybe the proper use of kneepads. Because that scumbag is only perpetuating myths. Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. One is a racist political movement, the other a religion. It's like saying the Aryan Nation, who consider themselves true Christians, is integral to Christianity. Get it, kneepad-wearer? And you compared the combinaton of Allah, Muhammed and the Koran to that of God, Torah and Israel. You must not be able to answer the first question of an IQ test. The proper comparison would be God, Moses and the Torah.
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You're getting arthritis in your knees. Let's see here ... you're comparing Israel to a woman being mugged/raped? You're talking about that state that has more nuclear capability than Europe? Where according to DocSpaz could wipe out Lebanon in 48 hours? The same Israel that has been killing millions of Palestinians for the past 50 years? I think you're doing a disservice to women by this comparison. Wait a sec ... a victim of a mugging has something stolen from them. And hold that phone ... a rape victim has their person violated in the most horrible and detestable ways, with grave intent by the perpetrator. Maybe you're talking about the Palestinians. As for Israel being a "bastion of liberal democratic freedom", I'm sure South Africa was too in your demented brain. Maybe you and Alan Dershowitz need to read something about Israeli domestic law and policy. Israeli Arabs have second-class status. All that reaming is letting a flood of horseshit out of your ass.
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Correction to your post. Israel gave the hundreds of thousands of southern Lebanese 2 days notice, not 5. And those Leaflets of Compassion said all minivans, motorcycles and trucks would be targeted. So unless you had a Hyundai Sonata, you're walking. You ever walk hundreds of miles in 2 days, with your children and elderly in tow, your belongings on your back? I know you have!
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The fact is that Israel sent leaflets and Hezbollah don't. There is no point splitting hairs over the time scale, it is pretty unanswerable that terrorists don't send out warnings. I Can't believe this is still going. To answer your previous question- yes I am British, but have managed to avoid reading as much as I can about this mess- I find the whole thing to depressing for words. It is a massive clusterfuck and nobody comes out of it looking good. If anything though- I tend to sympathise with Israel, as these murderous fucks have been committing atrocities unchecked for (seemingly) decades. Not that I think Israel is handling it well. I am just sickened and confused by the whole mess- the middle east is an utterly unsolvable problem, and arguing endlessly over it on a TB is not helping. And Zfisk- congratulations, Mel Gibson agrees with you- how come you don't think his absolutist form of cathollicism is repellant? or do you have double standards? or a split personality?
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In no less than half of your responce did you start to refer to other wars and to me as a hipocrite because I didn't take the time to cover them. i'm not talking about chechnia, or any other war torn nation. I'm talking about the current onslaught on lebanese civilians. Thats what this news is about. "We stand united with Israel". This is our leaders speaking for us. Fuck you're accusations that I'm all for any other war. Fuck your innuendo that I pick and choose my fights based on the latest trend. This is Aint it cool fucking news for christ sake, and I'm responding to you bunch of sacks and what you're all discussing. To hell with your assertion that i believe Israel should be wiped of the map. Cram it sideways, bud. You have yet to answer a simple question without your re and mis-direction. Nor do you ever take the time to simply stop and think "Gee, am I dumb? Is it really possible??" Dude, I'm done talking with you indefinately. Bate me all you like. But guess what, I'm not going to wast my time with someone who accuses me of being a hypocrite with ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN MY HEAD. But alas, who gives a shit Pazuzu. you're the most hated talkbacker in the history of this site. Deal with it.
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Australia lead the way when the Tsunami hit indonesia. In fact, America pledge quite a laughable amount in the eyes of the rest of the world. Absolute fact!
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If the two of you are even different posters. You sound errily similar in your assertion that I have no regard for the familys killed by bombs fired INTO Israel. Dr. Who the fuck do you think you are?
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My point about the leaflets is this: giving a warning to hundreds of thousands of people to evacuate in 2 days, but will target them unless they have a specific type of vehicle, is tantamount to giving no warning at all. It was essentially a move to manipulate public opinion. And the terrorists are as despicable in their methods. I agree that it is a very depressing state of affairs, and appreciate your honesty. I don't believe that the Middle East is unsolvable - I think in the final analysis, the vast majority of people want a lasting peace. No majority of people want perpetual war. Only a few fanatics. But it's a shame because they're the ones with the trigger fingers on the button. Not everyone can argue about the subject endlessly, but it - along with subjects like global warming - are affecting humankind in such drastic ways that I feel we should make our best effort to solve those problems. A TB might not be the best forum to do so, but to not say anything at all, to me, is more depressing.
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You're right about the Tsunami relief. The day after the tsuanami, Bush pledged $1 Million to help those millions of people. His barn in Crawford is worth more than that.
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Nope, I believe it was somewhere in the range of $30-35 million. (Unless you are talking about his personal contribution which I do not recall.) But when the initial pledge number didn't go over too well, we ended up donating a hell of a lot more. You guys should look up the figures on how much the Arab Gulf states contributed to the Tsunami relief effort. You would think they would have shown more compassion to their non-Arab Muslim brothers. EMBARASSING.
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Some warning is still better than no warning at all. The reason the Middle East is unfathomable is as you say- only a handful of fanatics have their finger on the button. The key word being "Fanatics"- as in people that you can't reason with. They want nothing more than an absolute surrender and a conversion for the entire world to hard core sharia law islam- something I find repugnant. If Israel did not exist where do you think this lunatic fringe would look at next? Also, MNG the hard line islamic states are not famous for their compassion- so why would they care about their non arab brothers?
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Doc, I got some bad news for you. Lost Prophet just explained what you are and I'm afraid it's all bad.
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You say "If israel didn't exist where do you think this Lunatic fringe would look at next". Dude, does that even make sence? I mean, The whole reason these 'neigbors' have any grief eith Israel.... well, we all know the history of Israel. You Question escapes logic. You see, Lunatic fringes exist all over the world. Some however, only exist because they are sown by others. So in order for others to not be there to sow the seeds, Said Lunatic fringes cease to be. Do you see where I'm going with this?
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Israel has more nuclear capability than Europe...So? What does that imply? And Israelis killing "millions" of Palestinians? Sources please. And the example of the the woman being mugged/raped was to illustrate your lack of compassion to injustice, NOT a metaphor for Israel. Now, the very fact that you could not read that (it was very clear) and not grasp it the first time shows me your lack of cognitive ability. This pattern of wild misinterpretation on your part is now becoming tiresome. I grow weary of having to take you by the hand and clarify points that were very clearly written in the first place. Your tone is shrill and emotional, lacking any cool, reasoned analysis. Your hysteria and hatred of Jews is made clear by your ignorance of what Zion is. *sigh* Attempt to comprehend this simplified decription....READ SLOWLY: Imagine someone saying that he seeks the destruction of Italy because he regards Italian national identity as racist. Further, imagine that this person constantly denies being anti-Italian, because he does not hate all Italians, only Italy and all those who believe Italy should exist.
Now substitute "Jewish" for "Italian" and "Israel" for "Italy" and you understand the absurdity of the argument that one can be anti-Zionist but not anti-Jewish.
Among the many lies that permeate the modern world, none is greater -- or easier to refute -- than the claim that Zionism is not an integral part of Judaism or the claim that anti-Zionism is unrelated to antisemitism. And one last thing Judaism has always consisted of three components: God, Torah and Israel, roughly translated as faith, practice and PEOPLEHOOD. Your substitution of Moses for Israel is wrong. There are many more points I wish to school you on before breakfast here, but no time now. Perhaps I'll be back to give you a sound lashing before lunch.
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Sorry, the point I was trying to make is that Israel is not their final goal. These loons want nothing more than absolute conversion to Islam. This makes the existance of the christian west an anathema to them. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Also, please don't ever quote me for your own ends. I hate that- especially when I agree more with his point of view than with yours.
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Americans gave far more personal charity, not foreign aid during the tsunami. But to address your comment about how Israel is the problem because other "sowed the seeds" of this conflict is lame.Virtually every country in the world was founded by displacing some of the people who had lived there, and many of those countries did far worse to far more people than Israel did! Therefore, anyone who calls only for Israel's destruction had better explain why, of all the states on earth whose founding was accompanied by the displacement of others, only the Jewish state is illegitimate.
Take Pakistan, for example. Unlike the Jewish state of Israel, which had existed twice before in history, there was never a country called Pakistan, nor was there ever any other independent Muslim country in the part of India that was carved out to create Pakistan. Moreover, if the Jewish state of Israel is illegitimate because it created 700,000 Arab refugees, why isn't the Muslim state of Pakistan, which created more than eight million Hindu refugees, illegitimate? Where are the Hindu suicide bombers? What kind of values do you and brokeback have that would give a pass to suicide bombers killing innocents?
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I was merely making a joke on the subject. but yes, I can understand the frustration with being incorporated in a cross battle. It's sort of like what Dr. Who is doing to me by reading my post to you, back to me. I've got something for you Dr. Who.
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"Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. One is a racist political movement, the other a religion."
Amongst Jews, only classical Reform theologians and some secularists claim that Judaism is a religion only. Even your Neturei Karta friends agree that the Jews are also a nation and religion; they despise modern Zionism because it presumptuously
seeks to recreate the Jewish state in the Holy Land before the arrival of the Messiah. In any case, take a look at these Biblical citations: For thousands of years traditional Jews took them quite seriously. I don't expect non-Jews or non-religious individuals to feel the same way, but please don't misrepresent what the Torah says.
Genesis 12:7, 13:13-17, 15:18, 17:8, 26:3, Exodus 3:8, 13:11, 23:31, 33:1-3, Numbers 34, Deuteronomy 1:8, 11:8-32, 26:15, 34:4; Joshua 1:1-6...and more (I haven't time right now to look up the rest). In any case, I seem to recall somewhere up at the beginning of this discussion that you have attended a Passover seder -- did they declare "Next year in Jerusalem!" at the conclusion? -
http://tinyurl.com/q8t2c .... You can clearly see as you look at the figures part way down the list that America is RIGHT DOWN THE BOTTOM! A measily 35million dollars to an Australian 1 Billion! The point is Dr. Who, you made shit up.
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didn't mean to sound too tetchy. This is keeping me amused at work. I just don't like being taken out of context. Do you at least now see my point about fanatics? Look at the London bombings of last year- they were carried out by Islamic youths that had been totally assimilated into Britain, they just despise the godless nature of the modern west- or to be more specific Allah-less.
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Let's not forget that the $35 million was the initial pledge. This quickly got upped to $350 million. Private Red Cross donations totalled around $570+ million by year's end, 2005. Here is some more US info: http://tinyurl.com/nxjq9 -- I give the Aussies mas credit. They are very involved with the peoples of Indonesia and their actions at the time were completely expected and appropriate.
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I love the truth, no matter where it leads. Yes, the US GOVT was near the bottom of the list with Italy, Greece and some others...even more frustrating was this from the CGD (Center For Global Development) "The US treasury last year imposed nearly 2 billion dollars in tariffs on imports from the 4 countries that were most affected by the tsunami-India, Indonesia,Sri Lanka and Thailand-twice the 900 million in releif aid approved by the congress for the same countries..." That's a drag. But also factor in the aircraft carrier and air rescue sent down fo IMMEADIATE help(food supplies, air rescues, first aid supplies etc.) THAT COST BIG MONEY TOO. The CGD also noted that"...the United States was the most generous in terms of it's private giving." There's a lot of rich people in this country from Bil Gates, celebrities CEO's etc and people we'll never know of for whom dropping a million dollars is no big deal. The people came thru with big hearts, not the govt.
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The leading countries in aid were all Nordic countries...Denmark,Sweeden if I recall etc. I'm sure there are are wonderful people in those countries, but I bet they didn't give squat. Why bother when the Mommy state will take care of it all? The people become ambivilent
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And as much as the movie restores my faith in my fellow man...coming on this talkback makes me think alot of them need to choke on a horse's dick and die. FUCKTARDS.
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Are you sure you didn't mean to post that under the Jayjew alias? I think you've lost your mind after being outted. Now you're also sleazing through other TBs pushing your Israel-First agenda like a Zionazi Borg drone - did you happen to think that maybe people just want to discuss Scorcese and Rambo without having to admit that the Holocaust happened, you lunatic? At least I keep my shit in one TB. You're so inconsiderate. And what do you care about the government taxing people? You live in your mother's basement and spend all day posting on the Internet and jacking off to Michael Medved. It's not like you're contributing to the common good of our nation. So until you make enough money to actually owe any taxes, you need to stop parroting the "small government" line, Medhead.
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"Next year in Jerusalem" was not meant for literal interpretation to mean the claim of that land at the expense / genocide of the people who occupied that land for thousands of years prior to Jewish immigration in the early part of the 20th century. Unless you willfully mean to interpret that in literal terms, but then anyone can use religion as an excuse for the killing of other peoples. In fact, a literal interpretation only dilutes the meaning of the saying, transforming the inherently good intentions to completely evil ones. I don't suppose anyone of decent morality in the modern age can excuse the killing of Jews in the Crusades. Neither should we allow the Zionist Jews to slaughter the Palestinians or the Lebanese. And I do have one differing point with Neturai Karta - I do not advocate the full dissolution of Israel as they do. As I said earlier, I support an end to the genocide of the Palestinian people and negotiations to establish a state for them. My stance on Anti-Zionism is not based on religious belief, but a moral and pragmatic one.
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Listen, you kneepad-wearer. You sought to position Israel as a victim. I told you, in so many words, that's bullshit. Do you get it? As for "illustrating my lack of compassion", I don't have compassion for people who send missles into refugee camps, bulldoze people's homes and kill masses of people through torturous methods. My cognitive ability is well intact because obviously I don't buy Israel's propaganda. And maybe you should read up on the origins of Zionism, because along with Judaism, you don't know jack about it other than what Alan Dershowitz is telling you. The original Zionists purposed the return of Jews to the land of Israel by fomenting hatred against Jews around the world. If you read the diaries of Theodor Herzl, father of the Zionist movement, you will see that his plans centered around the deliberate suffering of the Jews and inciting hatred and persecution of Jews to force them to move to Palestine. Modern-day Zionists have a different agenda, embodied in the NeoConservative movement. Having already established the state of Israel, the agenda is the preservation of Israel. As Benjamin Netayahu said on the day 9/11 occurred: "It's very good ... Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)". Is it any wonder then that the people who mostly loudly denounce 9/11 conspiracy theorists are also the most most strenuous defenders of Israel? Even here, on a TB. Judaism preaches that Jews be loyal to the country in which they live. A Zionist's loyalty lies with Israel, and not America. Zionism has been hotly debated in Jewish circles and many Jews oppose it on both religious and moral grounds. It is convenient for modern-day Zionists to equate Anti-Zionism to Anti-Semitism, but that's a ruse. Zionism is a separate racist movement that not only has nothing to do with Judaism as a religion. Its methods are completely antithetical to Jewish teachings. In fact, you yourself meant the reference to Israel as Peoplehood - not Statehood. Jews in the diaspora were taught to live in harmony with their countrymen, not betray them and their own teachings so they can commit and defend genocide. Or were they? You tell me. And you didn't answer my questions - should we call for consensus from all Americans to determine if we really are Israel's only ally? Because paid-off politicians don't count. If the American people said no, let Israel fend for itself, let's stop sending them billions of dollars every year, let's get out of Iraq so our soldiers can go home, what would you say? Whatever it is, it will show where your loyalty really lies.
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Then how do you know that "Next Year in Jerusalem" was not meant to be taken literally? Until the early 19th century ALL religious Jews believed that the Jewish Commonwealth in the Land of Israel would be restored in the messianic era. The Zionist twist was to take this (quite literal) yearning into the here and now arena of politics. You should also comment on all the Biblical citations I mentioned -- I suppose Jews don't take them "literally" either. I hate to break it to you, but traditional Judaism was and is not a Unitarianism-style universalist belief. Only recent manifestations such as Reform and 'Humanist' Judaism have made this claim.
As for Theodore Herzel, I'm not an expert on his literary output. Could you quote in context how "his plans centered around the deliberate suffering of the Jews and inciting hatred and persecution of Jews to force them to move to Palestine." Herzel originally advocated the mass conversion of the Jews to Christianity until he witnessed the French anti-Semitism of the Dreyfus Affair in 1895. Believe me, Jews were suffering enough in Eastern Europe during the late ninteenth century courtesy of the anti-Semites who didn't need any "incitement" from Zionists. -
An interesting correlation between the people who believe that Zionist/neocon/ninja agents planted explosives in the WTC and the attackers/enemies of Israel. I
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I have no doubt there are people who sincerely view Israel as an inherently good nation and cannot fathom 9/11 being allowed, and perhaps facilitated, to happen by way of conspiracy. To that I say: let there be a full-on, no-holds-barred investigation of 9/11. With all the wreckage evidence conveniently destroyed, forensic tests are impossible, but there are other ways. As to one's view of Israel, I can separate the people from the state. I've met many good Israeli expats who want nothing but to live peacefully wiht the Palestinians. As there are many Palestinians who would be grateful for an end to bloodshed. But they are all at the mercy of extremists on both sides who do not wish to relinquish an inch to the other. And both of those sides are savages.
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Will be glad to provide quotes to you in due time, but keep in mind that the Zionists did not invent Anti-Semitism. They saw it as a useful tool, a means to their ends.
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Also, which "Zionists" are you referring to? The Zionist movement has never been a homogeneous one, and most members genuinely felt they were helping their fellow Jews, not fiendishly taking over Palestine, whose Arab inhabitants they gave little thought to (and which wasn't a sovereign nation-state at the time anyway). Believe me, if I was a genocidical, racist exploiter, I'd set my sights on real estate more promising than a small (oil free) strip off the Mediterranean. If you would do some real historical research, instead of going to anti-Zionist websites you might discover that nothing is as black/white as you think.
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I have made it plainly clear throughout this TB that I see a distinction between Jews and Zionists, Judaism and Zionism. But if you cannot see the distinction, then you have much to learn. You cannot blend the two because, as I said before, the methods of Zionism are antithetical to the teachings of Judaism. And from a racial standpoint, the actions of Zionism are harmful to Jews at large. I, for one, admire the richness of Jewish culture and thought. I admire the charity and kindness of the Jewish people I know. I do not consider myself superior - no one is - to anyone because of their race or creed. You accused me of a superiority complex but is it not you who is guilty of such, when you can so easily dismiss the bombing of innocent people? How could the casual defense of such brutality not come from anything but a belief that those victims are of lesser value than you or your own people? Anchorite, you can be proud of your religion and heritage without supporting the apartheid and genocidal policies of Israel. And those policies and Israel's actions have done nothing but foment more hatred of Israel, and unfortunately, of Jews in general. After you read some of my quotes from the early Zionists, you may begin to see that that may even be the desired goal. You can support a peaceful mediation between Israel and Palestine without relinquishing your desire for a Jewish homeland. A safe and secure homeland need not be built upon the blood of innocents. You can be a proud Jew, supportive of his homeland, without sinking your identity into a Zionist construct. You do not have to subscribe to the mind-polluting rhetoric of mainstream Zionists, and think for yourself, using your religion and morals to guide you.
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I want to clarify something I said earlier - when I said "My stance on Anti-Zionism is not based on religious belief, but a moral and pragmatic one", I did not mean to infer that groups like Neturai Karta or any other practicing Jewish Anti-Zionists do not have a moral stance either. Far from being the case, they are tremendously sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians and Lebanese. They are completely selfless in their support of them. Now, here are those quotes. All the statements reflect the core of the true Zionist agenda - to bring all Jews to Palestine (Israel). Zionism does not seek to preserve the welfare of Jews in the diaspora, but rather requires that those Jews are encouraged or made to settle in Israel, and Anti-Semitism is its greatest tool. I won't even comment on them individually as they are self-explanatory: Theodor Herzl: "It is essential that the sufferings of Jews ... become worse ... this will assist in realization of our plans ... I have an excellent idea ... I shall induce anti-Semites to liquidate Jewish wealth ... The anti-Semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-Semites shall be our best friends
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...you stupid, stupid man. I go away for two days and come back to generous helpings of your usual idiocy. I didn't ask you to specifically comment on the wars I mentioned; I used them as examples of conflicts NOT involving western liberal democracies, where civilians are DELIBERATELY targeted for atrocities, and which NEVER adorn your figurative placards. I was using them as a tool to point out your hypocrisy, and you neither denied it nor failed in proving yourself as stupid as ever. I answered your call in that initial post, and I've taken pains to answer your questions in previous talkbacks whenever they come up (including a ludicrous 10-question quiz at one point), but instead of replying to accusations or answering questions put to you, you pretend to get all indignant about them. Nice smokescreen, chief. And yes, I will continue to tell you and everyone else EXACTLY what's in your pointy little head as much as I feel like it because it's the truth. You've had ample opportunity to deny my accusations, but you NEVER have, so fuck you, you inbred, dimwitted cunt.
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From Websters: "ream (...) 1. To form, shape, taper, or enlarge (a hole or bore, for example) with or as if with a reamer.
2. To remove (material) by this process.
3. To squeeze the juice out of (fruit) with a reamer." ...... From Engineering fundamentals (www.efunda.com): "Reaming is a process which slightly enlarges a pre-existing hole to a tightly toleranced diameter. A reamer is similar to a mill bit in that it has several cutting edges arranged around a central shaft, as shown below. Because of the delicate nature of the operation and since little material is removed, reaming can be done by hand." ....... By the sound of it, I don't think you're doing GingerTwit any favors by campaigning against his need for kneepads. Sounds to me like he'll need as much comfort as possible. By the way, I hope you're wearing them yourself since you've been assreaming yourself ever since you started making fun of someone (DoctorWho) who, unlike you, actually did know the meaning of the word. Moron.
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I've been reading your quotes and googling them for context. Most seem to have been taken from jewsagainstzionism.com, which isn't exactly a neutral source. I will not comment on the Ben Gurion quote, until I see it in conrxt. However, let it be said that I am certainly no great fan of Ben Gurion or Weizman and most certainly not of Yitchack Gruenbaum (whose "cow" staement, BTW, I've never actually read in context, only in anti-Zionist polemics). In any event, none of the above show any Zionist *creation* of anti-semitism, only a misguided response to it. And frankly, one's support of a Jewish gogernment in Israel should have nothing to do with the faults of assorted politicians. As for the Herzl quote; I have again been unable to access any context and only see it cited in jewsagainstzionism and other fringe sites. However, I did find a good, objective article on Herzl at http://www.iupress.indiana.edu/journals/jss/jss5-3.html -- I'll quote from material relevent to Herzl's supposed "desire" for anti-semitism:
"In his talks with [Tsarist minister] Plehve, Herzl transcended his personal feelings toward the minister (who was obviously not a friend of the Jews, though he maintained a diplomatic politesse throughout the interview), and together they agreed on the structural problems inherent in the existence of a large Jewish minority in the tsarist empire. Herzl reiterated his conviction that the status of the Jews in Russia posed a difficult dilemma for the Russian regime and might even in the end doom the very survival of tsarism. Plehve seemed to agree. On the one hand, he says, the government was ready to accept the Jews as equal subjects provided they integrate socially and linguistically into Russian society and get out of their communal and religious isolation. On the other hand, Plehve admitted that this would confront the government with another problem--the inundation of Russian gymnasiums and universities with Jewish students; it was this that led the authorities to impose a maximum quota on the number of Jewish students ("numerus clausus"). Otherwise, the Russian minister said, "we should soon run out of posts to give the Christians."52 But this, Herzl argued, pushes the Jews into revolutionary activity and causes further antisemitism as well as more government oppression.
In a strange way, both agreed on the inherent dilemma, and Herzl rose to the occasion by not wasting time on condemning the antisemitic politics of the government (it would only elicit defensive responses) but challenging Plehve to suggest a way out. If Jews continued to feel discriminated against even if they joined the Russian cultural mainstream, then they would turn into revolutionaries and threaten the tsarist system; and if it would not be easy for them to emigrate because of the financial hardships involved and the beginning of anti-immigration laws (the British Aliens Law was passed at that time), then it should be in the interest of the Russian government to support a public effort at organized emigration--that is, Zionism. Herzl used similar arguments in previous talks with the Austrian prime minister von K -
"Of the two and a half million Jews seeking refuge from the Nazis between 1935 and 1943, less than 9% went to settle in Palestine. The vast majority, 75%, went to the Soviet Union."
Could it be because Great Britain had effectively shut down all immigration into Palestine through it's White Paper of 1939? And if "75%" went to the USSR (I would like to know the source of this statistic) it probably involved Jews fleeing the German occupied portions of Poland and the Baltics after the onset of World War II. Immigration to the West and Palestine was blocked -- where else were they supposed to go? Once the war was over most of these individuals left the USSR if they could.
As for later immigration to Israel, well Jews *do* have it better economically in North America and elsewhere and haven't been subject to ongoing threats of terrorism and the draft (many non-Jews ave also left their homes in the Middle East for similar reasons). Suprisingly however, there are still Jews who choose to immigrate to Israel in spite of this, even in the absence of any substantial anti-semitism. -
In response to the charges of
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Zionism simply means the supporting of the idea of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. When people like brokedick, zfisk/homewrecker and GingerTwit use terms like "zionazi" and claim to distinguish between zionism and judaism, it is for one specific purpose: the undermining of Israel's right to exist. Of course there are Jews who don't support the existence of Israel, but they are an extreme minority of the world's Jews. What these dopes are doing is labeling the majority of the world's Jews as "zionazis". They do this while simultaneously denying the statistics of the Holocaust (or denying it completely) which is also an intrinsic part in an effort to 1) equate Jews en masse with an evil ideology/theology, and 2) use this as a tool to help abolish Israel. This is why even if Israel had never gone into Lebanon and had vacated all Palestinian territories, they would still be equating most of the world's Jews with nazis. See, most people can criticize Israeli policies but still support its right to exist. For these twats, on the other hand, criticizing its policies is important only in efforts to abolish the Jewish state. You never hear them say "I support Israel's right to exist BUT...etc etc..." This is because they DON'T, which means that NOTHING Israel could do, aside from national suicide, is good enough for them.
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Have you guys checked out zfisk's latest blog entry?
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http://homewrecker-returns.blogspot.com/
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Homewreckers new blog is fucking funny. Man that dude knows how to make me laugh.
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zfisk/homewrecker's way ahead of you. In his little report on Israeli children writing on artillery shells (look further down in his blog), he actually DOES have a link to an infamous neo-nazi revisionist's web site. The scumbag in question is Michael A. Hoffman II. zfisk/homewrecker is a blatant nazi sympathizer.
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This guy needs to get a life. See, I come on AICN and enjoy the spirited exchanges and clashings of the various characters here. I recieve great delight in watching some of the clowns go up against Docpazuzu, Anchorite, MNG etc... only to be soundly trounced (and yes zfisk..."thoroughly owned") and sent scurrying back to their neo-nazi conspiracy web sites to cut and paste a new arguement together. Let's say it's a highly amusing part of my day. But I have a life...job daughter,hobbies,interests etc. Not to muc of my day is spent fumming on something that Gingertwit said or a name that Brokback called me. But Homewrecker comes off as an obssesed,paranoid shut in...compiling quotes,names and dates...ranting to anyone who will listen that WE are a cabal conspiring against him. Get over it dude. You and your ilk consume 000000000.1% of our daily thought process. Open the shades. Let in some sunshine. Breathe in some fresh air. Turn on some music. Get a girlfriend. Go to the mall. The world has more to offer than the conspiracy you think controls it all.
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We are both doing our research, and that is good. You shouldn't discount Jewsagainstzionism.com as a fringe site because of its cringe-worthy subject matter. It's a factual site, and a fact is a fact, a quote is a quote no matter where it comes from. It's not like CNN is going to publish this stuff. As for some of Greenbaum's quotes in context, you can find some deplorable ones in Chapter 2 of The Holocaust Victims Accuse by Moshe Schonfeld. You can download the whole PDF from the site.
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I showed you some tender mercy, but it looks like all the years listening to that HOMOSEXUAL ZIONIST Michael Medved has made you nothing more than a hate-spewing cockslave, and all you will respond to is a good facial cockslapping. So be it. Maybe you can pretend I'm Herr Medved and blow me too because I don't have a date tonight. And after I remove my cock, why don't you ask me what I think about the whole Mel Gibson brouhaha? And that little comparison you made between True Torah Jews and Neo-Nazis, you remind me of the kapos. You know what the kapos did, right? You don't deserve my cock.
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You would have been better off leaving DoctorWho to defend himself and his reference to kneepads and reaming. Introducing a textbook definition of 'reaming' only shows that you're as much of an inexperienced virgin as he is. Now The Two Docs will henceforth be remembered ... not for the wisdom you impart on all things cinematic, nor for your Quixotic quests to actually 'own' someone, anyone ... but that neither of you has ever pleasured a woman through the backdoor.
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Just read your new blog entry (thanks, MNG). Is that what you've been up to? That is the funniest shit I've read since Abraham Foxman's statement on Mel Gibson. In fact, Mel should read it, it's clever. You could work for Icon Productions. I can't believe these Zionazis don't find it amusing. When did Jews lose their sense of humor? It really is the Apocalypse ...
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...that was the worst attempted save I have ever seen on AICN, brokedick, and I've seen many over the past five years. That was just sad.
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I know you have no recourse but to say that, but you should be aware of the pitfalls of using sexual innuendos - they are hazardous. Maybe you should stick with something you're experienced in ... perhaps auto-fellatio?
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...just stay down. You got owned on the reaming issue. I don't care how much of a verbal contortionist you consider yourself to be, there's no getting around it.
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Was just giving you advice, Doc. Websters is not a suitable reference guide for buttsex. Even I can't stand to see a Zionazi reel in humiliation of his own doing, at least in this matter.
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...you were owned.
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I love the grand laugh you all give me. But in order to keep up the neutral nature of my reading, please refrain from "Yah! We won, in your face" Can't wait for the new trade centre talkback. oww, there it is now....
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Just the fact that you claim to be neutral despite people such as zfisk/homewrecker linking to actual neo-nazis' websites to strengthen their arguments means that you're either a humungous idiot, unbelievably na
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This comming from Brokeback refrencing his cock about four time in one post.
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Did you say something? Don't talk when you've got a mouthful of dingdong, or you'll dislocate your jaw. Your post was the biggest, most blatant white flag I have ever seen in a TB. DocSpaz ... he clearly lost all sense of composure and his legs gave out. And DocWho's stammering, stuttering limp post sealed the deal. Take that white flag, Medhead, and shove it up your ass.
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O-W-N-E-D, owned.
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That's funny - you look like a gay donkey with that white flag sticking out of your ass and Medved's dingdong in your mouth. As for ZFisk, seeing as how he's got you Zionazis in a spastic frenzy, I'd say he's accomplishing his objectives pretty well. No help reequired.
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Yep, it's ownage.
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I reckon it's the same thing as when he claims to date Jewish girls all the time, followed by poorly disguised anti-semitic rants. Calling himself "brokebackcowboy" enables him to say "what do you mean I'm a homophobe -- look at my username!"
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It's been a while since I've seen that book -- the first time was around 29 years ago. I've just taken another look at it, and basically all I can say is 1. It's primarily a polemic. It does bring some sources, but doesn't afford much context. As I mentioned earlier, I'm no fan of Weizmann, Ben Gurion, Stephen Wise and other Labor Zionist leaders of that ilk. Before throwing around the fire and brimestone I would first look at other sources dealing with attempted Holocaust rescue (http://tinyurl.com/ny3u4, http://tinyurl.com/mo2uf etc.) If you want an essay putting ultraorthodox holocaust literature in perspective see http://tinyurl.com/zhnpa). 2. Have you read the chapter on Ben Hecht and his book PERFIDY? Hecht was a Revisionist Zionist, a supporter of the Irgun forrunner of the Begin's Herut Party and the Likud. He wasn't against Zionism at all, just the establishment personalities and their policies. Of course you equate the Likud with 'neo-cons' and the Zionazi cabal, so something must be askew. 3. Rabbi Michael Ber Weissmandl was indeed an anti-Zionist (as was prevalent amongst Hungarian ultra-Orthodoxy), but much of his bitterness was due towards the leaders and their behavior. He saw nothing wring with collaberating with the Zionist Gisi Fleichmann and others in his various rescue attempts. For more info see http://tinyurl.com/f6zh5. Again, I'd like to remind you not to depend on polemics and furthermore to realize that Zionism as a belief need not be equated with various individuals. As for "facts" -- do you believe the "facts" at http://tinyurl.com/p6bmd? I doubt it, so why must anyone swallow any other websites "facts" whole?
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That want Israel wiped off the map, but Persians and others as well. Calling it tthe Arab-Israeli conflict really isn't accurate, it's more the Muslim-Israeli or Muslim-Jewish conflict. The world would sell out Israel in a second if they had the opportunity. Fucking Europe and it's anti-Semitism sickens me, they should know better. They're not all brainwashed, ignorant Muslims like most of the Arabs are. Even in the UK anti-Semitism is on the rise. Flame away fuckers.
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Hey Johnny-boy. Proud European here, and proud of the Jewish lineage in my country too (UK). Not much anti-semitism around me right now. But that's irrelevant. This is about Isreal's total lack of understanding in how to deal with an escalation of violence without putting innocents, both Arab and Israeli, at risk. At the moment they're just stirring the pot for more bloodshed, rather than setting an example to the admittedly equally bloody-handed Arabs in how to remain peacable. Get with the solution talk. With your attidude you're just spitting ludicrous strereotypes. Please stop and read a little.
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WTC was absolutely devastating!Only people with strong stomachs should go see it.
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It just strikes me as awful..
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seems to work.
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