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If you want to know what Optimus Prime looks like in vehicle form you might... have to wait!!

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here again. Well, I knew Paramount or Bay wouldn't be happy about this, but they were on the ball quicker than I expected. I was thinking the article might survive the night.

The picture is removed, but I'm going to take this opportunity to get on a soap box, aimed at Michael Bay, Dreamworks and Paramount. I have seen much of the preproduction art and I really liked what I have seen. I like what I've seen on the set. It'll be different, but the promise of something recognizable in a new world was made in the art and animatics I saw.

Right now you guys are losing the fans. The more secretive you act, the more the fans think you're trying to hide a shitty movie. I'm pretty convinced the film will be big and fun as all hell, but even I have some doubts as a fan. Until we see these robots in action or hear that Cullen is onboard, the geeks will keep thinking this project is doomed.

I hope you guys have something up your sleeves for Comic-Con or some internet exclusive look at the robots... you need to do something soon, prove yourselves to the fans. Afterall, we all want this movie to rock. Not one fan in the talkback below wants this movie to suck. Not one. All you have to do is show us something we can latch on to and put our faith in. At least that's my thoughts. I'm sure you'll read more below.


Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I know TRANFORMERS is one of the biggest "Hot Button" movies in the works right now. I've been able to cover the preproduction and production of this flick for you and believe me. I am listening to the fans out there. I myself am a fan of TRANSFORMERS, but I must admit that I loved the cartoon and the toys as a kid, but I never took the cartoon with me into adulthood. It wasn't until earlier this year that I even revisited the cartoon via the out of print and hard as hell to find DVDs, rediscovering what I loved about these characters.

So, that puts me in a weird place. I'm a fan, but I'm not as married to the original as a lot of folks are. I see this movie as an opportunity to see a huge, sci-fi extravaganza from one of the most unapologetically extravagant popcorn filmmakers working in the business. If Michael Bay can stay true to the cornerstones of the characters (Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Bumblebee, etc.) I don't mind him changing up the story or even modernizing the design. However, the fans must be able to recognize the characters they love. If you're not willing to placate the fans at least a little bit, then what was the point in developing a property like TRANSFORMERS?

Case in point, the blue and white Optimus Prime design that has been floating around for the better part of 2006. A lot of sites have been touting it as a true blue ILM effects test. I still get it emailed to me on a daily basis. The video and pics from that video were made by a fan who was gunning for a job on the film. It looked great... I wonder if he got hired?

It didn't help that the character designs I saw in Bay's office were blue-ish gray in color. I stated then that these were rough and unapproved. Bay told me then that they hadn't settled on a look for the main Autobots and Decepticons. They were still playing, tweaking.

So here we are. Below I have a still taken by a long-time and trusted spy deep within Dreamworks' infrastructure from some exterior shooting of TRANSFORMERS. It is of the vehicle form of Optimus Prime. Yes, he's a truck. Yes, he's red. Yes, he's totally Michael Bay-ized. The picture will relieve some fans and probably infuriate some other fans. But I guarantee this... if that truck transforms into a badass giant robot and we hear Peter Cullen's voice coming from the big bastard, you'll see some orgasmically happy fanboys and girls. Hopefully Bay made the right decision with the voice casting.

Enjoy the picture while you can. I have a feeling it won't be up for long...


Readers Talkback
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  • July 11, 2006, 9:49 p.m. CST


    by isildur29


  • July 11, 2006, 9:50 p.m. CST


    by aTwenty7thLetter


  • July 11, 2006, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Robot in Disguise?

    by Superneal

    This is gonna be interesting to see

  • July 11, 2006, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Does anyone give a flying fuck about this movie?

    by Nate Champion

    Just wondering.

  • July 11, 2006, 9:52 p.m. CST


    by Benjamin Horne

    That's totally fake.

  • July 11, 2006, 9:52 p.m. CST

    by Amadeus Zero

    Um...a truck? Okay, yeah. I can see it.

  • July 11, 2006, 9:53 p.m. CST

    If it's half as good as that car commercial...

    by Amadeus Zero

    ...from a year or so ago, could be a fun, fun flick.

  • July 11, 2006, 9:53 p.m. CST


    by Kink

    I have no idea how to react to this. Atleast he's red...

  • July 11, 2006, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Here's the link

    by Amadeus Zero

  • July 11, 2006, 9:55 p.m. CST

    oh no you di'int

    by kafka07

    hmm I dunno, it's a cool truck. but it's not the optimus prime I've been wetdreaming about. it'll grow on me though. teach me to love him michael bay. (that didn't sound gay, did it?)

  • July 11, 2006, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Well, that's an interesting development.

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    I don't know about the flames...hmmm. And that looks more like a Peterbilt than a Mack truck. I wonder if they are trying to give him more mass and yet do away with the trailer concept. Cullen's voice coming out of that road monster would be pretty awesome though, I must say.

  • July 11, 2006, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Michael Bay is a stupid mother f*cker.

    by cerebulon

    What the f*ck is wrong with these people? If any people from this movie are reading this: I have one thing to say: I am never going to see this movie. If you can't even get a semi truck right, then you are not worth my $10 at theaters and my $30 for the special edition DVD. Go to hell, have a nice day.

  • July 11, 2006, 9:59 p.m. CST

    What's with the flames?

    by rbatty024

    Did Optimus Prime go on Pimp My Ride or something. I watched an old episode of Transformers a friend had on DVD two years ago, and while it wasn't as good as I remember it (as is true with about everything from one's childhood) it aged better than most cartoons from the eighties. They better not fuck this one up.

  • July 11, 2006, 10 p.m. CST

    Actually, to nitpick a little...

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    He's not red. He's blue with red flames. Or is my monitor fucked up?

  • July 11, 2006, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Is shockwave gonna be an ipod

    by Superneal

    for all the youngster who don't know what a walkman is? I wouldn't be surprised

  • July 11, 2006, 10:01 p.m. CST

    @ Cerebulon

    by PiratedTV


  • July 11, 2006, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Fucked up

    by badboymason

    He's a red, flat-fronted truck not a gay flamed juggernaut....

  • July 11, 2006, 10:04 p.m. CST

    QUINT - Have you seen this?

    by Mr Nice Gaius -- I found this on YouTube; it's not the best in quality. However, watch this preview footage and look for the segment where Spielberg arrives. I believe they are showing actual Pre-Viz footage and a few pieces of concept art.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:05 p.m. CST

    looks like a cross between optimus prime and hot rod

    by Toe Jam

    oh, come on people, surely you remember hot rod, the heir to optimus prime. he was my favorite transformer until i got sand in him and he wouldn't transform out of vehicle mode.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:06 p.m. CST

    I thought Shockwave was a

    by Jluca96

    Boom Box, not a walkman. But seriously, what can they make him that would be relevent and also include ravage, rumble and the rest of those loveable litte fuckers?

  • July 11, 2006, 10:09 p.m. CST

    STAXX from GO-BOTS

    by Scattershot76

    Yo BAY, wrong toy line man! I swear if I see any hint of Bruce Willis in this thing I'm gonna choke the closest person in the theater, then I'm gonna get my damn money back! btw: Shockwave was a gun, SOUNDWAVE was the cassette player and yeah, I wouldn't mind him being in ipod. But bay may just redeem himself if SOUNDWAVE turned out to be an old skool tape deck.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:10 p.m. CST

    I weep for the species

    by cerebulon

  • July 11, 2006, 10:11 p.m. CST

    Optimus Prime is running on Gay Fuel!!

    by Tall_Boy

    Quick! Get that robot some HeteroEnergon Cubes!

  • July 11, 2006, 10:12 p.m. CST

    OH...MY... GOD...that sucks.

    by jrbarker

    First this...I'm SAD.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:14 p.m. CST

    It's SOUNDWAVE, not shockwave...poseurs

    by chicagosteve

    And regarding the truck, we ARE talking about a movie about a talking truck. Shouldn't people (pun intended) bee complaining that Bumblebee is a Mustang? Or maybe it was a Camero...yeah, Camero. But still- Bumblbee=bug=VW. Oh well. I don't care, I love Transformers, really liked when Pat Lee and co. brought em back in the comics, and really love the old movie with the exception of the soundtrack. Makes a great acid trip. Of course that was 5 years ago when I did come the "you must be tripping" jokes and jabs...might as well yell first!

  • July 11, 2006, 10:14 p.m. CST

    How is that going to work?

    by Spyhunter

    He's going to look 9 months pregnant with that front end.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Prime has to F'ing look like Prime

    by dead youngling

    Yes, I know his form has changed through the different series, and YES, I am a 31 year old geek fan who has sex with a wife people mistake for Julia Roberts. I don't own all the toys, but have been a fan since G1 came out--and I cried when Prime died in the original flick-partly because my father left me when I was young and Prime became a father type figure for me. That's why I care about this character so much--make Bumblebee a refrigerator, and Starscream a bathtub, I don't care, but PRIME IS TRANSFORMERS. If this flame truck transforms the same way Prime is supposed to (G1), with that huge front sticking out, Prime will HAVE BOOBS! The final screwage will be if we don't get Cullen. Yeah, I'm a whiney baby, but Bay better remember, Transformers are about characters, not explosions. Before Pirates, after the Transformer teaser preview some little bastard behind me yelled, "That's the gayest thing I've ever seen!" I couldn't help myself. I turned around and yelled, "You're the gayest thing I've ever seen." Maybe I need to watch more Smurfs.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:16 p.m. CST

    We dig Optimus Prime and not Galvetron

    by Buck Turgidson

    We dig The Leader of the Pack and the Do-Run-Run. Spinderella and Bruce Lee, The Bad and the Ugly, V for Vendetta and Into the Groovy. Can U dig it?

  • July 11, 2006, 10:17 p.m. CST

    I'm FURIOUS! Does it make sense that

    by CreasyBear

    Optimus would choose such a glaringly conspicuous aesthetic, given the clandestine nature of the galactic . . . who am I kidding. I don't care that much about this movie, beyond hoping it might be a nice little 2-hr diversion one day.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Optimus Prime is the Icon

    by cerebulon

    I don't care about bubblebee - gasp! I know, I'm going to hell - Optimus is the icon for the transformers. It screw him up this bad is pathetic. It's like Michael Bay is "re-imagining" the transformers instead of bringing them to life.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Does Optimus get handjobs from hookers

    by c4andmore

    in the sleeper cab?

  • July 11, 2006, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Oh, and thanks a lot, dead youngling!

    by CreasyBear

    That was MY son you unleashed your tirade against in the theater, and you might like to know that he cried his gay little eyes out all night long thanks to your heartless comment!

  • July 11, 2006, 10:26 p.m. CST

    soundwave ...shockwave

    by Superneal

    you know what I mean

  • July 11, 2006, 10:28 p.m. CST


    by sallokin

    As long as he looks like prime in robot mode, I could give a shit what his alt mode looks like.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:30 p.m. CST

    I haven't seen the movie yet but...

    by The Funketeer

    I can already tell the whole thing is going to suck hard because they changed the color of a semi truck. My god, did Michael Bay even watch a single frame of Transformers? The red and blue paint on that truck was what defined the show! I don't know much about cars and trucks but I do know this... Nothing in the world of automotives has changed since the early 80's. I go out on the street and all the cars and trucks look exactly the same as when I was a little kid. In fact, I'm going out to buy a new Pontiac Fiero right after I finish typing this. By changing the colors on a truck that appeared in a half hour animated toy commercial I used to watch 20 years ago, Michael Bay has raped my childhood and he won't get 1 dollar from me when this movie comes out. That is, unless all my friends go see it or I don't have a girlfriend because I'm still obsessed with a freakin toy cartoon that hasn't been relavent for the last 15 or so years.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:31 p.m. CST

    @ Dead Youngling

    by PiratedTV

    "Prime will HAVE BOOBS!"? Two words a letter and a number: G2 Laser Optimus

  • July 11, 2006, 10:32 p.m. CST


    by robotdevil

    One would think that a robot in disguise would choose a slightly less conspicuous color scheme.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:35 p.m. CST

    by crimsoncinder

    I love the Transformers to death, however to think that they wouldn't tweak the shit out of this movie, well lets just say we aren't even figured into the equation as fans. If this were a Superman or Spiderman film with decades of built in fanbase, I think they would stick closer to the source material, but if that teaser trailer says anything to me, it screams of a cheap lego's bionical movie.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:35 p.m. CST

    'Optimus Prime stole that kids sneakers!'

    by XoanonTORN

    Whaaaaa? LAME

  • July 11, 2006, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Awww Hell....

    by booster6600

    Wow! Geez.... Michael Bay IS that stupid (I already knew he was I was just holding my disbelif out there until now)... You've got one of the really iconic characters of the Gen-X/Y generation and you can't even get it right. Just make it a Red truck for the love of f@#k. Prime was the one character I prayed wasn't going to be done wrong. Hell... the fake truck they had a Comic con last year even got it more "on" than this. Trust me... Peter Cullen won't voice this character, Bay isn't that smart. He won't be any Prime us older transformers fans remember. And that's just dumb. A couple of simple conceptual/aesthetic choices and you'd have thousands of people young and old going crazy waiting to see this... but no, Bay has to be sure " flaming moron " gets carved into his tombstone. What a dumbass.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:37 p.m. CST

    If that's for real...

    by Aragorn II

    ...I won't go see the movie. It might be good, but screwing with Prime's red flat-front design is exactly the kind of thing that would keep me pissed off for the entire two hours.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Everytime I turn my hat backwards...

    by dancinggopher01

    it's like a switch. All I wanna do is win that truck, ya know.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Laser Optimus

    by sallokin

    I would love for him to look just like G2 Laser Optimus. The huge shoulders would be great to see.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:38 p.m. CST

    The hardest laughter I've ever heard from a trailer

    by Bryan

    It was funny to see the trailer before a sold out Pirates audience. Most people didn't seem to be aware of the movie and when the title came up it was a tidal wave of incredulous laughter. I seriously can't remember people laughing that hard at a trailer ever. Then a guy behind us said, "The sad thing is I'll probably see it." I know because it's Michael Bay it's not reasonable to expect anything but crap, but it seems to me so foolish of them to not make it superficially resemble the robots that people remember. If it's a concept universally considered retarded, and then you intentionally alienate the small portion of nostalgic people who are the only ones who will be excited for the movie, then who exactly are you expecting to watch it? Just a new generation of stupid kids I guess. We'll see if it ends up being more beloved than the 2000 Godzilla.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:41 p.m. CST

    This truck is identical to a Prime toy from 1995

    by Shipley Laser Rod Optimus Prime. check out the truck. Either this is a great throwback to the underrated Generation 2 line, or a big fat fake.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:43 p.m. CST


    by wolack22

    Seriously... wtf is that?

  • July 11, 2006, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Now this is what Michael Bay envisioned

    by crimsoncinder

    I present to you: MICHAEL BAY'S OPTIMUS PRIME!!!!

  • July 11, 2006, 10:47 p.m. CST


    by GuyLombardo

    Is the Matrix of leadership featured in this -- if not, I'm outtie

  • July 11, 2006, 10:47 p.m. CST


    by tiredpm

    This is really funny, and the usual suspects haven't even started posting yet. Any chance that IS the truck they are going to use but that's NOT the color scheme? Oh, and Mr. Nice Gaius, nice catch on the YouTube spot. Sure looks like a mix of the footage from last years ComiCon mixed with animatics, test footage, the old cartoon, fan films and commercials. Maybe this is going to be at San Diego this year? You'd think they must be preparing SOMETHING, right? Quint, question for you, mate: is this going to be anything close to the Transformers that fans remember, or should we check our lovingly cared for Grimlocks at the door and just enjoy the ride? Thanks for the answer, if you get the chance or are okay to respond.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:49 p.m. CST

    OK, its a FAKE

    by Shipley

    After seeing its identical to G2 Prime and someone pointing out the friggin poorly photoshopped smokestacks, its gotta be fake.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:49 p.m. CST

    what's up with megatron? or the dinobots?

    by reckni

    Jetfire was my favorite one. Don't care too much about this flick, really feels doomed from the start. I liked the toys, the comic was entertaining, same with the TV show. Can we expect the Dinobots? With that said, Michael Bay is a great choice for director . . .

  • July 11, 2006, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Laser Rod Prime was a great mold

    by themikejonas

    ...but the colors sucked. Anyway, this news is just disappointing given that not too long ago--when was it, last Comic Con?--they promoted the movie by parking a proper-looking G1-style Optimus Prime truck, with trailer and all, on the premises.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:51 p.m. CST

    by Knightsong

  • July 11, 2006, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Why you all complaining?

    by Triceratron

    This is just like G2 Laser Optimus Prime. Anyone who actually knows about TFs nowadays knows this toy, and it was one of the best Optimus Primes in existence. At any rate his design changes every year at this point, so the fandom is used to it by now. If you can't accept change in a series like Transformers, you've entirely missed the point of it all.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Stupid flames. Does he also have naked chick mudflaps?!

    by Darth Bauer

  • July 11, 2006, 10:54 p.m. CST

    "Yes, he's red"

    by Hail

    Did Quint actually look at the pick?

  • July 11, 2006, 10:54 p.m. CST


    by wolack22

    Bryan IS TOTALLY RIGHT... WHo are you expecting to see the movie... or get support from if you dont make it true the spirit of the original transformers... dont fuck with prime, dont fuck with megatron, dont fuck with bumblebee and dont fuck with starscream... what's wrong with you... YOU ARE IN THE DEPTHS OF MAKING A SUPERMAN RETURNS AND YOU DONT EVEN REALIZE IT... YOU ARE ALMOST AT THE DEPTHS OF X-MEN 3 shittiness.. do you realize that when you piss off fans you lose MILLIONS!!! THAT'S MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FANS, AND FRIENDS OF FANS WILL PUT INTO THE THEATRE SALES... all you have to do is not fuck with the main characters... and stay true to the spirit and you'd have a gold mine... STOP FUCKING WITH THINGS!! STOP GOING WITH YOUR INSTINCTS AND GO WITH WHAT IS THE TRANSFORMERS!! NOT SOME FLAMES!!! FUCK THE FLAMES!!

  • July 11, 2006, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Gobots = Poor Man's Transformers

    by veritasses

    They should've made it a Gobots movie. Then no one would've cared about authenticity or if the movie sucked.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:58 p.m. CST

    Why the flames?

    by Ribbons

    Not to be a "hater" or whatever -- honestly, I have no emotional attachment to the Transformers franchise at all -- but the flames just seem like overkill. To whoever responsible: I'm sure your coveted 13-18 demographic will forgive you if a truck car doesn't look "cool;" you don't have to pimp it to ingratiate yourself to them.

  • July 11, 2006, 10:59 p.m. CST

    by crimsoncinder

    Yeah baby!! Leader 1 vs Cykill!! With a lesiban porche and a fag scooter for the win!

  • July 11, 2006, 11 p.m. CST

    by crimsoncinder

    "no emotional attachment" nuff said why you can;t understand the flame.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:02 p.m. CST


    by wash

    ..and is quite fabulous these days!

  • July 11, 2006, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Clearly, Michael Bay is directing a $200M ZZ Top video.


    With Billy Gibbons as the voice of Optimus.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:11 p.m. CST


    by ShawnT


  • July 11, 2006, 11:12 p.m. CST

    You people need to relax

    by DOGSOUP

    and take some codine with vodka chasers. I grew up watching Transformers over GI:Joe too but I'd STILL pay money to piss on your dreams for this movie just because I love the sound of your whining. It's. A. Toy. Movie. Get over yourselves.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:15 p.m. CST

    I hope they're driving it somewhere to be painted.

    by Truth0ne

    If not, this film is doomed.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:17 p.m. CST


    by ShawnT

    DOGSOUP.....Do you think that makes any fucking sense what you just said??? Might as well skull fuck everything that made it popular in the first place...why even use the name?? Asspipe

  • July 11, 2006, 11:18 p.m. CST

    I dunno. The truck looks fine to me...

    by Zarles

    ...but what I'm REALLY having a difficult time with is thirty-one-year-old "adults" that tell random children that he thinks they're gay. Maybe the Julia Roberts-resembling thing that dead youngling is having sex with is actually a horse. More than meets the eye...

  • July 11, 2006, 11:18 p.m. CST

    The blue tranformer clip is NOT related to the movie!

    by Jackablade

    The clip with the blue-grey transformer who looks vaguely like Prime has been kicking around for years. It was originally posted on the CGChat digital art forums as part of someone's portfolio. It surprises me that its taken this long for this information to get through given how widely known this info is. Be a little cynical, guys. Not every rumour is true. I'd be willing to put my money on this truck not being and part of the movie either.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:24 p.m. CST

    I'm With Anyone Else Who Does Not Give A Flying Fuck

    by Alex Douchepot

    About this movie.... come on people are you serious? Who asked for this shit. And need I remind you, Tyrese is in this god damn movie. That's the seal of a shitty movie if I ever knew one.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:24 p.m. CST

    Ahhh ShawnT, I must have touched a nerve

    by DOGSOUP

    ..because your whining sounds sweetest of all. Poor poor little guy, your precious Bumblebee is a mustang, Megatron in a jet, Soundwave is an iPod, and Optimus Prime looks nothing like what you wanted and will probably be voiced by Andy Dick. Your dreams must be shattered little buddy. You know, if you had any self worth whatsoever a comment by some prick on the internet like me wouldn't have even registered. Don't worry little buddy, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it.......well you're good enough and smart enough anyway.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:24 p.m. CST

    design redeemed by cullen's voice

    by reckni

    If they wisely choose to sign him. Not doing so would be a big mistake, what a great voice!

  • July 11, 2006, 11:32 p.m. CST

    PLEASE GOD NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    BOYCOTT anyone?

  • July 11, 2006, 11:35 p.m. CST

    The truck is icing on the cake

    by TwentyFourth

    First the cast looks like The Million Man March with all the gangster rappers and darkie comedians and now Bay makes Prime look like a ghetto mobile. They are targeting to the gangbanger/hiphop audience, the WRONG audience to market to, and no parent will take their kid to see this crap. I've had ENOUGH!!!!!!

  • July 11, 2006, 11:36 p.m. CST

    Damn, that is FUCKED UP!!!

    by Doc_Strange

    Words cannot describe how fucked up this image is. That is NOT Optimus Prime. DO NOT see this movie.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:36 p.m. CST

    That's not red

    by ELGordo

    It's black with red flames.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:37 p.m. CST


    by TwentyFourth

    For those that dont know the cast list includes Tyrese, Michael Clark Duncan, Bernie Mac, Anthony Andersen and reportedly Ludacris. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

  • July 11, 2006, 11:47 p.m. CST

    The Teaser Trailer was not well recieved...

    by Bones least not at the screening of POTC I went to see last Friday...lots of sniggering, laughing and, well .. booing actually... I don't hold out much hope for this. And as to the truck--why didn't they use the truck from ComicCon last year--it was the right model, just the wrong color? And, doesn't GM have a small car, like a little Cooper Mini or a VW that would be a good "starter car" for a kid? Like a Geo Metro or something? Something that would feel like a little , well, Bumblebee?

  • July 11, 2006, 11:48 p.m. CST

    They gave Optimus Prime a beer gut...

    by WesReviews

    For the love of God...this is terrible. And I won't even discuss the flames. R.I.P. Optimus. :(

  • July 11, 2006, 11:50 p.m. CST


    by beelkay

    Whaa? Hmm...This is one of those movies where a lot of stuff is looking crappy, but I suppose we should reserve judgement until we actually see the movie.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:52 p.m. CST

    The Hell?

    by Orpheus2k

    I seriously hope this is a fake. Not only are the colors and model wrong, but the image of a pimped-up vehicle seriously DOES NOT fit with Prime's character. Prime is a heroic cowboy/John Wayne type character with a SERIOUS side to him, not some beer chugging, shoe shining ZZ-Top redneck... *groan*

  • July 11, 2006, 11:53 p.m. CST

    Jesus Titty Fuck TwentyFourth!! Racist Much??

    by DOGSOUP

    Aside from this movie being an abomination, who the HOLY FUCK in this, our NEW millenium uses the fucking ignorant racial slur "Darkies"??!?! OOOHHHHhhhhhh I get it now. There's no possible way you're serious. You're fucking with us all and are actually a huge black dude making a social commentary. All right, I respect that, Alfonse.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:55 p.m. CST

    So, when are they going to do a GI JOE Movie...

    by Bones

    ...You know, since we are talking about 20-25 year old toy properties that are hopelessly out of date? The treatment I read a year or so ago WAS HORRIBLE. if they were really interested, they should try to follow Paul Jenkins' Cobra Reborn issue as the basis of the movie and go from there. make them real counter-terrorist agents fighting against a power that rises from within the US, secretly supported by racist congressmen. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE-- Please do NOT make Cobra Commander a former GI JOE agent. Or the Brother of Duke or Hawk or the father of Luke Skywalker... sigh ... Eighties stuff should stay in the Eighties.

  • July 11, 2006, 11:55 p.m. CST


    by Shermdawg

    Even as a kid, I wished Optimus looked like that. You fanboys have to admit, this is ok, compared to Bumblebee being a freaking Camaro!

  • July 11, 2006, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Can you tell I am a big fat geek?

    by Bones

    Hehehe. Yeah. So can I.

  • July 12, 2006, midnight CST


    by pelos_locos

    This actually looks more like optimus armada version.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:01 a.m. CST

    Doesn't anyone realize...

    by bionomic555

    that if the movie looked exactly the same as the cartoons, it would not only look stupid, but no one else but only hardcore geeks from the 80's would be willing to watch that crap? The concepts(both designs and story) have to be modernized, plus we are talking about an 80's cartoon about blocky transforming robots...come on people, be thankful that someone other that Uwe Boll is willing to work with such a lame concept as that of the original transformers cartoon.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:08 a.m. CST


    by masticators

    How freakin cool would it be if the Decepticons were VAMPIRES! Like they could survive by sucking the life-force out of other Transformers, while the Autobots are still shoving those Energon cubes up their asses... And how about adding in some crazy nympho female robots, too? They could be into really kinky shit, too -- like FISTING. Or "Watersports"! That'd be sweet!

  • July 12, 2006, 12:09 a.m. CST

    Needs neon running lights and a plasma screen tv

    by Big Bad Clone

    and that fucking fountain from the first season of Pimp My Ride... seriously, who the fuck would run a fountain in their fucking car?

  • July 12, 2006, 12:13 a.m. CST

    T v GI:J

    by DOGSOUP

    7 years from now. I predict it now and you heard it here first. Speculation: directed by Brett Ratner featuring Adam Sandler as Duke, Jessica Simpson as Scarlett, Damon Wayans as Destro, and Andy Dick as the voice of Optimus Prime

  • July 12, 2006, 12:14 a.m. CST

    you are all fucking retarted. changes need.....

    by wcoop893

    to be made to modernize this franchise. obviously everything cant look the exact same. no one except hardcor old queers would see it then. the cars are going to be awsome and the action jaw dropping. thats whats gonna bring people into the theaters, and thats whats gonna make an entertaining movie. it has to be changed

  • July 12, 2006, 12:16 a.m. CST

    oh yeah, and no one has seen any footage yet....

    by wcoop893

    SO FUCKING STOP BITCHING!!! i am 100 % posative that when the first real trailer is released that shows some footage, everyon is going to be creaming their pants with joy. you are all going to see this movie no matter what, but stop fucking crying until we get a chance to see some kickass video footage

  • July 12, 2006, 12:16 a.m. CST


    by rubensreviews

    that truck is stoopid.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:17 a.m. CST

    Old School Prime

    by brit3424

    Just make it the G1 Prime from the 80's that has a trailer that disappears once he transforms (can anyone explain where it went anyway?). This can't be Prime!!! I know thay have to make the movie as realistic as possible, that's probably why they're making Megatron a tank instead of a gun. Soundwave an I-POD??? make sure it's not one of those really small and thin ones or else Laserbeak, ravage and rumble are going to be about an inch tall if we're lucky. If the Dinobots aren't going to be in this one, they better be in the sequel!!!!

  • July 12, 2006, 12:17 a.m. CST

    I was gonna give Bay the benefit of the doubt......


    but clearly that's impossible now. thanks for ruining an icon and painting flames on him. wow, you really do suck, asshole. the transformers movie wallpaper that I put up yesterday is coming down now and i'm not going to see this fucking movie until I find out you are paying GOOD respect to OPTIMUS PRIME and have decided AGAINST this long nose flashy flamejob piece of shit.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:20 a.m. CST

    thanks Mr. Bay for fucking up my childhood

    by RedScab

    Optimus Prime was the one toy I dreamed of as a kid. When he would say "autobots ROLLOUT!!!" I was totally pumped, it was something sacred from childhood. First lucas screwed up starwars now this. What is next turning Knight Rider into a Mini Cooper?!?!?!? Hollywood sucks and now they are fucking with our childhood memories, I wish this movie would have never been greenlite. THIS MOVIE WILL SUCK ASS!!!!!!

  • July 12, 2006, 12:23 a.m. CST


    by bionomic555

    First of all, I dont even like michael bay although the island was just ok, and i personally think this movie is gonna suck ass. Second of all, even though the original concept for optimus was ok BACK IN THE 80's, it's just too blocky to be considered seriously as a cool character in 2007. Check other interesting robot designs, and they all simply look cooler than the old optimus design. Dude, design concepts of what "cool is" change, specially after 20's just common sense.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:24 a.m. CST

    When I read the headline I prepared myself

    by slder78

    to get an erection only to have it melt like an ice cream in Arizona. Flames?! So Optimus is a redneck now? Shit. Aw fuck it, I&#39;ll still see it b/c it&#39;s fucking TRANSFORMERS! <imitates "The Voice" A Film by Michael Bay Executive Produced by Steven Spielberg.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Razorbeak and Ravage will be Mp3&#39;s

    by DOGSOUP

    Downlaodable into the Autobots computers to screech out Hulk Hogan&#39;s bratty manish daughter&#39;s new single which will defeat them all to which Andy Dick as Optimus will scream "OH FOR HEAVENSS SSAKE!"

  • July 12, 2006, 12:28 a.m. CST

    wcoop893 is a moron

    by Orpheus2k

    Modernizing stuff doesn&#39;t have to mean COMPLETELY FUCKING UP the image of what an ICONIC character is supposed to represent! The people that don&#39;t get why people are pissed, read this twenty million damn times until your eyes bleed and it get&#39;s through all your thick skulls: Optimus Prime&#39;s character and role is supposed to be that of a noble heroic leader, with a certain John Wayne slant to him. NOT some fucking flashy, gay, pimped up classless ghetto shitbag who guzzes bear, sleeps with hoes, and listens to ZZ-TOP redneck country music crap. Because that&#39;s EXACTLY what fucking flames come across as! *sigh* Now go back and read again what I said Optimus image/character is supposed to represent, can you honestly tell me that fucking ghetto flames is appropriate for what the character represents? NO YOU FUCKING MORONS!

  • July 12, 2006, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Fuck You Michael Bay !!!!

    by Darth Evil Dead

    Thanks for destroying this movie franchise. Its amazing how far from the source material some of these cock sucker directors go. So first they dont make Bumble Bee a bug...And now they make this gay looking fagot Prime. What the fuck was this bitch thinking? Flames on a Truck...Yeah this shit is flaming alright. Flaming Gay. I cant wait to see How man shots of this film are in slow motion with American Flags in the bag ground..and little kids looking on, in awe... Michael Bay you dumb fuck.. I hope that flamming truck runs over your dumb ass..

  • July 12, 2006, 12:31 a.m. CST

    bionomic, try driving on the freeway some time

    by Doc_Strange

    You&#39;ll see that there are truck models, Mack trucks, in particular that mimic the design of the Optimus Prime from the 80&#39;s. Yes, really. If you actually got out more often or paid attention to your immediate surroundings, you would notice that. What you don&#39;t understand is that movie directors change shit because they have little to no respect for the source material. This "design" if that&#39;s what you want to call it is a very good, or should I say bad example of how one person can ruin a franchise before it&#39;s even begun. Will people see this? Yeah, will it rake in millions of dollars? Hard to say, but at the rate it&#39;s going and with Bay directing, along with the shit designs, this movie WILL bomb like The Island.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:33 a.m. CST

    i feel sorry for you orpheous2k....

    by wcoop893

    because this movie is only gonna be about really nice kickass cars transforming into really big kickass robots that blow shit up. im osrry if youre looking for a robot to be your father figure, and youre upset that the father has flames. but at least the father figure is gonna blow shit up really well and get the attention of action movie lovers everywhere.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:33 a.m. CST

    Optimus Prime is Jewish?

    by zacdilone


  • July 12, 2006, 12:36 a.m. CST

    can&#39;t wait to see how it all will look

    by ingeh

    I&#39;m very curious to see how this will turn out. The truck looks greet but what will the cgi be like. I also loved the cartoons when i was little.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:37 a.m. CST

    @ Zarles

    by dead youngling

    Nice joke. My wife ain&#39;t a horse but she did run on a track in high school. And sometimes I ride on top of her...sometimes with a whip thingy, and goggles if it&#39;s messy. Maybe she is a horse. And nowfor my obligatory comeback from a great movie...Gremlins (also from the Transformers era). Cue the Gremlins Christmas caroling. ZARLES...KA KA!

  • July 12, 2006, 12:37 a.m. CST

    How bout voicing your concerns on Michael Bay&#39;s forum


  • July 12, 2006, 12:38 a.m. CST

    They shouldn&#39;t even call it Transformers

    by TwentyFourth

    They should call it Niggerformers and Transgayers. I have a great idea, lets cast OJ Simpson as Prime, Eminem as Jazz and Elton John as Megatron. Fucking typical Hollywood liberal crap.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:40 a.m. CST


    by bionomic555

    I do think that x-wing designs are kind of lame nowdays although they were probably pretty cool back in the 70&#39;s(i dont care much for star wars, although i respect the movies for what they brough to the world of cinema). Also, i dont care much for the original enterprise design. I&#39;m a geek born in the 80&#39;s so my taste in what cool is gonna be different than yours who is clearly from an older generation. Which is exactly why i am telling you that tastes change with time. I talk to people in their late teens and in their twenties, and they dont really care about the stuff we think are cool, which is another reason why drastic changes have to be made if they want to make a movie that wont be laughed at. Also, i think both the body and truck mode of optimus is too blocky. I do think that the head still looks cool

  • July 12, 2006, 12:41 a.m. CST

    Hey look, it&#39;s Optimus Pime&#39;s gay redneck cousin

    by Rant Breath

    where&#39;s Optimus Prime, leader of the Autobots???

  • July 12, 2006, 12:45 a.m. CST

    yackbacker, you almost make a good point

    by wcoop893

    but obviously they are going to blow shit up and build a storyline around based on something popular that already exists and already has a fan base to build apon. and i really honestly think that maybe aside from a few colors or flames, they are going to as loyal as necessary to attract older fans. i almost guarentee that when we get trailers and when the movie comes out, everyone will love it.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:49 a.m. CST


    by bionomic555

    I understand that a great movie about transformers could be made, one that incorporates the old designs quite well and that it would work perfectly on a modern sci fi movie. But what are the chances of a movie like that being made? I can&#39;t think of any living director that would be capable of accomplishing a feat like that, can you? There are only a couple great movies made a year, and we would be lucky to see one or two that are scifi or fantasy. And i can tell you right now that this doenst look like it&#39;s gonna be one of them. All i can really hope for is an ok movie with flashy violence and somewhat interesting designs. I do agree that michael bay is ass raping the original concept designs for his own sake...I just dont undestand why people are so suprised at this?

  • July 12, 2006, 12:50 a.m. CST

    Well as I said in another talkback

    by Doc_Strange

    I hope the crew from this debacle shows up in a panel at Comicon in San Diego where hardcore, pipe-hittin, nigg-I mean fans of the show will voice their warranted malcontent for this movie. Seriously, the more people we get to Comicon to let these dick heads know that they are steering this movie off a cliff then they will have to listen. Because we are the core audience who either make or break these movies. We give out the good or bad word of mouth whenever these films hits. You think people would have cared about the very first X-Men if it hadn&#39;t been given an overwhelmingly positive nod by the geek audience? That shit would have bombed and no one would know, let alone care about Hugh Jackman. I guaran-DAMN-tee if they show this image as the design for Prime, everyone in the panel will either laugh or groan collectively, followed by a massive uproar and possible walkout. You heard it here first.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:50 a.m. CST

    YackBacker..yeah, the millenium falcom is cool, ha ha

    by bionomic555

  • July 12, 2006, 12:50 a.m. CST



    Do you honestly see anyway of making that thing look like Optimus Prime? I&#39;ve collected Transformers my whole life and I sure as hell can&#39;t.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:53 a.m. CST

    Prime has come out of the Closet

    by Darth Evil Dead

    Its official...Prime is gay. Im sorry for all you kids who were playing with Prime back in the day. I was tricked too...I had Super Prime as a kid..the one that changes from a battle a 12 inch tall figure... But little did I know that the 12 inches stand for something else. Because little did I know..That Prime was a gay homo Flaming Fag !!! The correct tranformer you should of baught was Sound Scream. Thanks Michael Bay for Fucking it all Up.. Thanks Michael Bay for showing us Prime is gay. So Bay what are you going to fuck up next? Thundercats/?

  • July 12, 2006, 12:55 a.m. CST

    basically all im saying is....

    by wcoop893

    they cant make this expensive movie only for the older loyal fans. they have to change a lot, including car designs, car makes in general, to attract people of all ages. but regardless, the acion will blow our minds.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Who gives a shit

    by IncompetentNinja

    Michael Bay is just making a $200 million toy commercial.

  • July 12, 2006, 1 a.m. CST

    Wait, wait, wait...X-men 1 had a...

    by Shermdawg

    overwhelmingly positive nod by the geek audience? Huh? Since when?

  • July 12, 2006, 1:02 a.m. CST

    damn, pic already gone, impressive speed

    by wcoop893

    i kinda like how they are being so secretive though. i think its just building up a lot of anticipation. sure, its pissing a lot of fans off and making them think the movie is gonna be crap, but hopefully, *hopefully*, when the footage is finally released, all of the secretive anticipation will have been worth it and we will have one kickass actioner to please everyone.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:03 a.m. CST

    this sucks

    by peopleintrees

    why the fuck does optimus have flames?!?!?! sometimes its all about minimalism

  • July 12, 2006, 1:03 a.m. CST

    I realize folks are passionate about their Transformers

    by zacdilone

    But isn&#39;t the amount of hate on here a little extreme for this stage of the game?

  • July 12, 2006, 1:08 a.m. CST

    This just in!!!

    by Rant Breath

    Optimus Prime will have pierced nipples and lame tribal tatoos! He will also be addicted to crystal meth instead of energon cubes.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:09 a.m. CST

    YOU&#39;RE ALL MORONS!!!!!

    by Orpheus2k

    Okay, I can understand modernizing car models and stuff, but DON&#39;T do it to the point where it COMPLETELY FUCKS UP the damn image of what the star ICONIC character represents and stands for! Especially when the image the character represents is what made him so popular in the first place! COMON GET your BRAIN turned on! Okay, let me try this again because some of you it&#39;s like talking to a wall: Optimus Prime&#39;s character and role is supposed to be that of a noble heroic leader, with a certain John Wayne slant to him. NOT some fucking flashy, gay, pimped up classless ghetto shitbag who guzzes bear, sleeps with hoes, and listens to ZZ-TOP redneck country music crap. Because that&#39;s EXACTLY what fucking flames come across as! *sigh* Now go back and read again what I said Optimus&#39;s image/character is supposed to be, can you honestly tell me that fucking ghetto flames is appropriate for what the character represents? NO YOU FUCKING MORONS! If you&#39;re going to make a movie based on something, at least get the motherfucking main character right!

  • July 12, 2006, 1:13 a.m. CST



    cause that is BUTT UGLY, come back when you know what Optimus Prime REALLY looks like...

  • July 12, 2006, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Can we get Jerry Reed to drive Optimus?

    by Shermdawg


  • July 12, 2006, 1:15 a.m. CST


    by b3mike


  • July 12, 2006, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Good thing they&#39;re not making a Thundercats movie.

    by Shermdawg

    People would complain that they made Lion-O a pussy! :P

  • July 12, 2006, 1:18 a.m. CST

    That is NOT Optimus Prime...

    by WesReviews

    ...I don&#39;t care how many cereal boxes, pop tarts, and potato chip bags they splash that fuckin&#39; thing on. That is NOT Optimus Prime. This is truly a fucking shame. Masters of the Universe and Godzilla &#39;98 all over again.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:24 a.m. CST


    by young1

    Why is it okay to fuck with Optimus Prime&#39;s look? He&#39;s been a red, flat fronted big rig on TV, in COMICS, and as a TOY. So why does Michael Bay want to make him a fucking long-nosed Peterbilt with flames? Optimus ain&#39;t gay, Mike. Superman&#39;s "S" got a shade of red darker in this last reincarnation and fans were pissed --- just a SHADE! And you&#39;re making O.P. completely different?? Even Batman&#39;s suit altering stayed within the Batman guide lines of past interpretations. Show me a comic, tv episode or toy where Optimus is a long-nosed Peterbilt with flames and I&#39;ll shut my mouth.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:25 a.m. CST

    i know someone saved the pic

    by chucks888

    ... now post the goddamn thing

  • July 12, 2006, 1:25 a.m. CST

    I was fortunate enough to miss the He-man flick.

    by Shermdawg

    I was a huge fan of the cartoon and had a bunch of the figures, and then my mom got hardcore religious and said that they were new-agey and sold all of them and refused to let me see it. It&#39;s strange though, that she didn&#39;t do away with my Star Wars stuff. I guess because she was bending the rules with her love for Star Trek, she let that one slide. I did mange to check bits and peices of the Masters movie on Showtime, man was Miss Cox smokin&#39; or what?

  • July 12, 2006, 1:25 a.m. CST

    flame on!!!!

    by Bouncy X let&#39;s say that truly is optimus&#39;s movie form then what the hell was that truck at last year&#39;s comicon for? i mean that truck was both a flatnose and the proper colors....why use that to promote the movie then go and change it? i realize designs change and shit but if they werent sure they were keeping him the same, why bother using that truck? maybe i&#39;m alone but when i saw those photos last year, it told me "so hey kids, prime will still be prime" ....if that long nose is truly what they&#39;re using, it scares me to think what he&#39;ll look like in robot form...*shivers* but whatever i say i wont deny the fact i&#39;ll be seeing this in theaters anyway so i&#39;m just whining for whining&#39;s sake :)

  • July 12, 2006, 1:26 a.m. CST

    Waitaminute... waitaminute... waitaminute...

    by MarkoOhNo

    They&#39;re gonna have Bumblebee in the movie but he&#39;s NOT GOING TO BE A VW?!? That&#39;d be like if Clark Kent changed into Spiderman&#39;s uniform in a Superman movie! What the hell?? lol That&#39;s taking a little TOO much liberty. I don&#39;t like that Optimus is currently set to look like a circus truck BUT... I&#39;m not gonna let myself get upset about any of this. The movie is still a freakin YEAR away from release and CGI gets tweaked right up to the last weeks before the premiere. We&#39;re talkin about early stills which, for all we know, are intentionally leaked to get fans emotional (interested & talking) about the movie. Besides, it could be worse - they could put a big green face on the front like the truck from Maximum Overdrive. Or he could be a freakin APE named OPTIMUS PRIMAL!! UGH! Beast Wars can bite my ass. As for Tyrese, I&#39;ll be on the edge of my seat... hoping to see him get scraped off of Starscream&#39;s boot. Good God... just because Will Smith can rap and act doesn&#39;t mean ALL rappers can act. Could we at least cast actors based on TALENT please?! If I hear even one rap track during the film, I&#39;m getting my money back. Seriously! Side thought: if they put Soundwave in the movie and he turns into an iPod, what&#39;ll Rumble, Ravage & Laserbeak turn into?? Discuss.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:27 a.m. CST

    i hope...

    by seekshelter

    that they include the bit about having a road that stretches all the way from earth to cybertron. haha... if i remember right, there a device on the ship that scoped out the planet for items that they could be disguised as. even when i was 10 i wondered why noone was turned into a any older vehicles like a model t or something. that being said, i also dont remember ever seeing a red semi... i watched that show religiously, but even then i thought a lot of the plots were stupid. im sure that any changes Bay makes to this, it wont be any sillier than anything that was originally in the series. spike and his dad were embarassing. why is it that no one throwing a fit for not having them included?? what about dancing robots on a junk planet?? haha..

  • July 12, 2006, 1:28 a.m. CST

    Again I say, look at Godzilla...

    by WesReviews

    Godzilla &#39;98 pissed the fans off. Had a massive budget, and did well the opening weekend. Nobody embraced it...the &#39;modern&#39; audiences it was crafted for was like "WTF?" and die-hard Godzilla fans were left thinking "This isn&#39;t Godzilla". Even the promise of monsters to battle him and fire-breath in future sequels didn&#39;t get fans on board. Now it litters the $5.50 bin at most Wal-Marts. Now, look at Transformers. Massive budget...even bigger than Godzilla&#39;s...and it&#39;s ALREADY pissing its fanbase off.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:28 a.m. CST

    Bay understands Transformers

    by Rant Breath

    just as much as Joel Schumacher understands Batman. What a fucking stubborn asshat. If you don&#39;t like Transformers in the first place DON&#39;T DIRECT A MOVIE CALLED TRANSFORMERS, YOU ASSHOLE!!! Go direct Pearl Harbor 2 you fucking clueless douchebag.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:29 a.m. CST

    You All Talk a Good Talk...

    by Ratphink

    But regardless, no matter how you feel, you&#39;re all gonna pony up cash to see this flick when it comes out. Me? I never liked Bay and never will. His flims are overblown shit, I was passing on this one once his name was attached to it.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:32 a.m. CST

    By now one of you asshats....

    by googamooga

    Has usually posted the picture somewhere else and posted a link, for those of us who got here late. So what&#39;s up?

  • July 12, 2006, 1:33 a.m. CST

    obviously theres not gonna be a VW bug in this....

    by wcoop893

    are you serious? that would be so dumb. i cant believe you expected them to not change that car at least. bay makes &#39;guy movies&#39; with lots of hot women, nice cars, big explosions. this means shit has to and is going to change, but its still gonna be kickass regardless. get used to it. stop whining. youre all gonna see it anyways. and we havent even seen any real guarenteed actual video footage yet

  • July 12, 2006, 1:33 a.m. CST

    WTF... never saw this before, but ok...

    by young1

    I stand corrected...

  • July 12, 2006, 1:33 a.m. CST

    Side Discussion 1

    by Orpheus2k

    "Side thought: if they put Soundwave in the movie and he turns into an iPod, what&#39;ll Rumble, Ravage & Laserbeak turn into?? Discuss." A motherfucking trio of dildos!

  • July 12, 2006, 1:33 a.m. CST

    Just for the record, Tyrese is a singer, not a rapper.

    by Shermdawg

    And a pretty decent one at that. As far as acting goes? ......

  • July 12, 2006, 1:34 a.m. CST

    My, my, my. It looks like Michael Bay is

    by superninja

    trying to rush to make his very own Superman Returns. You have no authentic Prime, you have NO Transformers movie. I&#39;d rather there be no movie made than to produce something that diminishes the characters.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:39 a.m. CST


    by young1

    Good question... I think Rumble, Ravage, Lazerbeak (and there was a jaguar one too, right?) would have to turn into ear buds and wire. Yeah, that&#39;ll be cool. Or better yet, they appear as images stored in iPod photo library and then jump out of the screen... so they&#39;ll "transform" from robots into pixels.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:39 a.m. CST

    Balls, it&#39;s gone!!!

    by shonin

    Anyone got a link to the pic???

  • July 12, 2006, 1:45 a.m. CST

    NO PIC, so I&#39;ll describe...

    by young1

    Imagine a desert highway with a giant turd with wheels rolling down... that&#39;s what the pic looked like. A turd with flames, and polished chrome. A polished, flaming turd.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:47 a.m. CST

    Dear Hasbro...

    by WesReviews

    Michael Bay & Co. just saved me a shitload of cash on movie tie-in toys next year. Please, help!

  • July 12, 2006, 1:49 a.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    Actually, according to, Spike and Sparkplug Witwicky ARE cast in the film. I was hoping to see the paraplegic genius Chip on the credits, but he&#39;s not there. heh (Here&#39;s a classic corny Sparkplug line from "War of the Dinobots": "Stegowhatsus and pteranowhosis?? Is there anything you don&#39;t know about, Chip??" HAHA) BTW, when&#39;s Bay doing the My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake movies?? LOL

  • July 12, 2006, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Quint why didnt You fucking hit Michael Bay in the Head

    by Darth Evil Dead

    And knock that motherfucker out? Fuck You Quint.. When you saw that fucker Bay making Prime a Queer and casting a hack Rapper/Wannabe Actor Tyrese in Transformers...You should of done your fanboy best and pushed Michael Bay out of the window in his fucking Holiday Inn Express. Fuck You Quint....You call yourself a fan boy. Ha

  • July 12, 2006, 1:54 a.m. CST

    The advantage of not pissing off the fan base

    by Dave The Slushy

    This is my take. If this is the movie I&#39;ve wanted to see since I was 5, I&#39;ll be buying at least 2 movie tickets, the inevitable special edition DVD and the overpriced collector

  • July 12, 2006, 1:55 a.m. CST

    No, I didn&#39;t get to it in time, but if it looks

    by superninja

    anything like that toy link posted a couple above me, it&#39;s over with. Let&#39;s face it, it&#39;s the same thing as with Superman. Optimus Prime, for all intents and purposes is American. He is as American as John Wayne. Once again we have another filmmaker who does not want to stick to the premise of what makes the character to begin with. Also, the script review over at is by someone who obviously was not a huge fan of the show, but wants to see robots punch each other out. As fun as that is for five seconds, that is NOT what Transformers is about. Like you said, call it something else if all you want to do is have explosions and robots-rockem-sockem for two hours. At least we won&#39;t be insulted.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:01 a.m. CST

    Good point, Yack about the G1 Prime ALWAYS

    by superninja

    being the best seller when it comes to the toys. These guys are real geniuses, aren&#39;t they? THE DESIGN IS ICONIC. THAT MEANS DO NOT CHANGE IT. These people never, ever learn. That design is flat-out tacky. Tasteless. Someone was paid to make Prime look like this. How irritating.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:03 a.m. CST

    Did anyone save it before it was taken down?

    by MattCG

    Anyone? Post it somewhere and link please?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:10 a.m. CST

    shouldn&#39;t that be...

    by seekshelter

    Optimus is as japanese as john wayne? haha.. whatever sense that makes. come to think of it, theyre also aliens....

  • July 12, 2006, 2:11 a.m. CST

    If they think they are just remaking an 80s

    by superninja

    cartoon and at this point they can do whatever they want, they are crazy. Transformers has an enormous following. And if they think all that an audience cares about are giant robots fighting for two hours with names that describe their personalities they understimate their audience and are infantile in imagination. Did you read the script review over at Sounds extremely mediocre to me.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:13 a.m. CST

    Fuckin&#39; A Yackbacker

    by Doc_Strange

    Even as an updated truck that freightliner looks more like Optimus Prime than that pic that was taken down. For those that got here late, the toy link someone posted above is believed to be whathasn&#39;t even come out yet. Optimus Prime looks like in the film. Shit, I can&#39;t believe this. This movie is probably the biggest fucking train wreck I&#39;ve ever seen, from the blue skies on Mars to Bumblebee and now Prime, and it doesn&#39;t come out for another year. How much more are they gonna fuck it up?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:16 a.m. CST

    Hey TwentyFourth

    by Phategod1

    What is up with the Niggerformers comment are you type of racist or what??

  • July 12, 2006, 2:16 a.m. CST

    No, Prime is American in US cartoon, patterned

    by superninja

    after John Wayne, just like Superman is an American. That&#39;s just the character - it&#39;s plain as day. You have to fundamentally remake the character to change this about their personalities. No one wants to see a Prime that is not reminiscient of his personality on the cartoon. We don&#39;t need cold/alien/metrosexual Prime. Superman Returns, baby!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:18 a.m. CST

    hey- I have a question...

    by samsquanch

    What the fuck is with this "Homecoming" movie? Zombies coming back from the dead to vote-- for who, exactly?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:18 a.m. CST

    Yes, he is a racist, Phate. He&#39;s been

    by superninja

    ragging on the black actors in the film, too.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:19 a.m. CST


    by MattCG

    Is this it?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:21 a.m. CST

    Yup, that&#39;s it, Matt. Thanks.

    by superninja

    It looks like Joel Schumacher got his hands on Optimus Prime. Does it look cool under a blacklight? Sheesh!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:22 a.m. CST

    Thanks MattCG

    by Darth Evil Dead

    thats it.... Better Look now..before Bay Strikes again and takes that one too... You cant cover up your Shit forever Bay!!!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:24 a.m. CST

    A warning to the production staff...

    by SithScorp

    Please be true to this property, in every single detail possible. Why? Because, we have learned our lesson with X3. That movie pissed people off and it underperformed, as did M:I-3... Repect your audience our have a bomb...

  • July 12, 2006, 2:24 a.m. CST


    by Phategod1

    is fucked I hate the thought of any human actor except for who ever is playing Spike and his father and the dude in the wheel chair but I am black and I was a latch key kid of the 80&#39;s from a single parent home that regarded Optimus Prime a father Figure and race never mattered to me. Bay is fucking with my childhood and has nothing to do with being PC.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:25 a.m. CST

    thats the pic that was pulled by Paramount


    more than likely is supposed to be the leader of the autobots.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:25 a.m. CST

    thanks mattcg

    by mocky_puppet

    for the link. and that is a fine enough looking transforming truck. the main problem with this whole thing is why in the hell are there transforming robot trucks. i know there are all these explanations, but the real reason, of course, is so they could sell these toys back in the day. so it&#39;s like they want to sell a squirt gun shaped like a nose called "mister Sneezer". they make up this cartoon about mister sneezer and the crime fighting body part guns, and suddenly they have to start explaining things. flash forward twenty years and you have fans defending the logical basis for a nose-shaped watergun because of its origin on a planet where what-the-f-ever. please make good movies hollywood and not more dumb ones, we have enough dumb ones.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:27 a.m. CST

    It does seem like anything they deny is

    by superninja

    what is likely in the film. I thought at first I&#39;d give it a chance. But that teaser was the first major tipoff, and then that script sounds exactly like a banal Hollywood Transformers production by people who don&#39;t get the premise, the characters, etc. Followed by Prime goes Las Vegas. Ech.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Seriously, I wonder if there is a connection

    by superninja

    between people loving this cartoon and being latchkey kids. You are yet another person that has mentioned that, Phate. I brought it up on the other talkback. It was the same thing with me, I have a huge attachment to this character as a father figure. Like, an immediate defensive reaction to anything being changed about him, to them removing his fatherly personality, etc. The whole thing hinges on that, which is why I never really got into the other TF shows once Optimus Prime was gone. Hopefully you are not kidding or I am about to get a serious mocking. :) Maybe I am due?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Nice Truck

    by tHEmOOG

    I wouldn&#39;t worry too much about that truck. You know theyre going to add cgi and make it better looking. So stop all the flaming and stfu already. Half of you guys werent even alive when Transformers first came out.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:33 a.m. CST

    I can&#39;t wait to see this movie.....!!!!

    by 69DUDE


  • July 12, 2006, 2:34 a.m. CST

    Jesus Fuckin&#39; Christ

    by TripEllex

    "wahh Optimus looks gay wahhhh Bumblebee&#39;s not a VW Wahhh Michael Bay sucks Wahhhh!!!" For fuck&#39;s sake people....I am probably a bigger Transformer&#39;s fan than half of you whiny fucks on here. I have the complete DVD collection for all 3 seasons, including the movie on DVD and VHS. I still have a shitload of my old toys from over 20 years ago. And you know what? I STILL say this movie is going to be fucking AWESOME. It&#39;s a MOVIE people. A goddamn MOVIE. NOT the old cartoon. Times change. people change. Hell, I can&#39;t even watch half of the old episodes anymore because the plotlines are ridiculous, the pacing horrid and the animation just doesn&#39;t look as good as it did when I was seven. You&#39;re all still going to plunk your fcuking cash down for the theatre AND/OR the DVD rental/purchase, so really, SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY! Go outside, shut off WoW, find a girl, get laid, quit jerking off in mommy&#39;s basement and GROW UP! This movie will own you all. Who cares if it has a decent story. Who cares if they get EVERY little fucking toy/cartoon detail right. Just thank the fucking LORD it&#39;s even being made at all. Goddamn kids nowadays...

  • July 12, 2006, 2:34 a.m. CST

    What about dumb fans?

    by superninja

    You seem to have the market cornered there, mocky.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:35 a.m. CST

    Wow, you&#39;re in the habit of being thankful for crap?

    by superninja

    No wonder movies are so awful these days. Low standards.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:37 a.m. CST

    so the japanese creators of the toys and series..

    by seekshelter

    modeled him off of john wayne or some american archtype???

  • July 12, 2006, 2:37 a.m. CST

    I&#39;d also like to add....

    by MattCG

    ...I don&#39;t give a flying fuck what the vehicles look like as long as they transform into giant robots and fight each other and fuck shit up. Transformers isn&#39;t sacred. It&#39;s ridiculous. It was even ridiculous to me when I was a child. As long as giant robots show up, fight and blow some shit up real good, I&#39;ll be happy.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:38 a.m. CST

    Who cares about Trasformers, a MICHAEL BAY FILM?

    by CuervoJones

    not cool news at all

  • July 12, 2006, 2:40 a.m. CST

    I don&#39;t know if that how he was modelled

    by superninja

    but Cullen certainly played him that way, and combined with the Superman colors, you get a general "American" effect. That is how the character is percieved for the US version of the cartoon. Get it?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:40 a.m. CST

    I&#39;m always open-minded...

    by Negator76

    ... about changes that need to be made under the stress and specific demands of a film, but this shit is ridickerous. Fucking FLAMES? Watch, he&#39;ll probably have the voice of Larry the Cable Guy. I don&#39;t even care about a good movie, I just wanted to see a few of my beloved Transformers on screen. Yet another reasonable, humble fanboy hope that&#39;s been crushed to dust. Black leather on the X-Men is one thing; at least Singer got the characterizations mostly right. But we&#39;re talking about Micheal Bay here. Characterization isn&#39;t even in his fucking vocabulary. If he can&#39;t get the visuals right, than he ain&#39;t gettin&#39; anything right. R.I.P, Transformers movie.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:41 a.m. CST

    No superninja

    by Phategod1

    Im not kidding I did find it shocking when they killed Optimus it was like watching your father die right in front your eye then I thought he might come back by the end of the movie then the horror when you realize that rodimus prime is hot rod and is the new leader but i kept watching I liked watching the new dynamic of Rodimus as this Unwilling leader that had this responsibilty thrust upon him, It helped me deal with the death of my own father five year later but honestly no disrespect to my father but he was not half the man Optimus was. With that said we can not forget Cullen, welker, and Chris "starscream, cobra commander" Latta.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:41 a.m. CST

    Looks like Trip has everything figured out

    by Doc_Strange

    Every now and then someone comes along to let us know that we&#39;re going to pay to see this shit. That it&#39;s going to be awesome, blah blah blah. Unfortunately I don&#39;t subscribe to your brand of simplistic thinking. Give me one reason why I should be thankful this is being made.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:43 a.m. CST

    NEW citreon robot advert

    by Eezer enjoy

  • July 12, 2006, 2:45 a.m. CST

    TripEllex how dare you call yourself at Transformer fan

    by Darth Evil Dead

    You going to sit there and take this shit up the ass? Your going to sit there and watch them put Flames on the leader of the Autobots? Prime is the leader of the Autobots..and he has Flames on him. Your not asking yourself what the fuck is going on here? They Transformers turn into Trucks, cars, planes etc to fit in. To be unnoticed. A truck with Flames on it defeats that. They also turned Bumble Bee into a sports car. The whole character of Bumble Bee is not suppose to be a sports car.. Bumble Bee is a outsider.. That little nerd in school that was always considered to small and weak to hang out of with the jocks. He wants to be cool. He wants to save the day. But he is not strong enough. He has low confedence. He is not some Prep Sports car. Thats why were mad. This is a childhood series. We all wanted to see this turned into a movie since we were little kids. Now its getting fucked up. And your just going to sit there and take it up the ass?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:48 a.m. CST

    Darth Evil Dead

    by superninja

    Well, if you go read the script review at, you will realize that they got the premise wrong. At a superficial glance, someone will say "It&#39;s the Decepticons vs Autobots on Earth, they got it right" (as the rocks rattle around in their head). But, they didn&#39;t. They turned it into something more Harry Potterish and less Star Wars.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:50 a.m. CST

    what about cliffjumper

    by Phategod1

  • July 12, 2006, 2:51 a.m. CST

    Optimus 4 Life

    by Orpheus2k

    That&#39;s right motherfuckas, Optimus Prime is more a man then 98% of the mothafuckas on here, and he&#39;s a damn robot! Muahahahaha! R.I.P. prime, R.I.P.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:51 a.m. CST


    by Phategod1

    was badass and he didnt car if was small cliffjumper would kick your ass he was the anti bumble bee and one of my favorites

  • July 12, 2006, 2:51 a.m. CST

    I felt the same way, Phate.

    by superninja

    I stuck with the new characters, although I liked Hot Rod much more than Rodimus. I thought bringing Prime back only to kill him again was kind of a form of sick torture, too. The main reason I accepted the TF: The Movie characters was that they finally had a female Transformer as a central character. And then proceeded to not really use her.

  • July 12, 2006, 3 a.m. CST

    Quint, You&#39;re right.

    by Gorrister

    I&#39;m one of those fans who originally gave the studio/director the benefit of the doubt, but over the past month or two, I&#39;ve been getting more than a little nervous that they have dropped the ball on this one. I won&#39;t go into the lousy teaser trailer because I think everyone has already said everything that needs to be said about it. What bewilders me is the studio being so damned secretive about photos of.....AUTOMOBILES!!!! My God! We see automobiles on the streets every day of our lives! Why are pictures of corvettes, police cruisers and trucks suddenly "Top Secret"? I would understand it if you were posting pics of the robot forms of these characters....but that isn&#39;t what the studio is doing here. It makes no sense whatsoever....unless they are very, very uncomfortable with the film they are producing.

  • July 12, 2006, 3 a.m. CST

    I would give Optimus a blowjob. The original one!!

    by TraumReiter

    Didn&#39;t they have a flat nose truck under the sheet at Comic Con? What happened to this truck? Was it raped by Rodimus Prime and this is their offspring?

  • July 12, 2006, 3:04 a.m. CST

    Im not going to read the script Ninja

    by Darth Evil Dead

    I will look at pictures of the characters and so...But before I see a movie I never read the spoilers. It always destroys the movie for me. Im so fucked up, I have not read any of the next Harry Potter books..because I love the movies so much, and want to be surprised by the movies when I watch them. But this is uncalled for..This looks like a major miss of a movie. Bay&#39;s last strike was The Island....if this movie fails...Bay might not even get to direct a porn. Atleast next summer has the cant miss titles of Harry Potter, Spiderman, and Pirates 3.. So I will be alright. Once again...FUCK YOU MICHAEL BAY !!

  • July 12, 2006, 3:05 a.m. CST

    Way off base

    by Mr Brownstone

    that looks absolutely NOTHING like Prime. He is the most iconic, recognizable Transformer there is. Red, flat front truck. That&#39;s why they had a replica of him at the comic con. That&#39;s the first thing people think of when they think Transformers. So I guess the smart thing to do is completely change his appearance so Bay can feel like he has ownership of his "creation".

  • July 12, 2006, 3:05 a.m. CST

    Grimlock no Bozo me Grimlock king

    by Phategod1

    What about grimlock man we gotta have grimlock leader or the dynobots creator of the compubots. Please dont let Bay Screw this God dont let them look like Overgrown Johny Fives Please let Sound wave actually be a Walman PLease let Rumble and frenzey ravage and lazerbeak be cassettes Please let Optimus Be the greatest Fictional Leader Of all Time, If america Can fall in love with a fruity Pirate captain, Why not Prime, Please let Starscream Be as dirty and underhanded as before and be Megatron best warrior leading Thundercracker, and the rest. PLease God let the comstructicon come together to form devestator. Let Sound wave hae that mone voice I will Cum my shorts if he say "As You Command Megatron" Please God let this be a Omage to my favorite cartoon of all time.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:11 a.m. CST

    Starscream is my favorite character in Transformers

    by Darth Evil Dead

    Please Bay dont screw it up. Again I wont and did not read the script. Does anyone know if Starscream is going to be that little pain in Megatrons ass. And is always ready to stab Megatron in the back if he gets the chance?

  • July 12, 2006, 3:11 a.m. CST

    Yack, it&#39;s true. I never really thought

    by superninja

    about it that much until this movie came up. Mostly I would just defend the cartoon&#39;s premise from the usual dimwits who think Maxim is high art. TF is one of those cartoons that I think has much more potential, and it appears that will definitely remain untapped for now.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:14 a.m. CST

    I am against dinobots for a live action film.

    by superninja

    They can&#39;t exactly disguise themselves. Also, they all suck except for Grimlock.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:17 a.m. CST

    is it too late to call this thing GOBOTS?!

    by tom_quinn

    Quick fix - Just change the name!! We&#39;ll all be happy. You can make The Fast and the Furiouser with Robots. Kids who want to pimp their ride will see it. And maybe a halfway decent filmmaker will team up wtih Pixar and make a good transformers movie someday.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:19 a.m. CST

    Bitch all you want about Singer&#39;s Superman costume...

    by Kraken

    At least he didn&#39;t have flames on it. This is Transformers, not Dragsterformers. Honestly, they&#39;re cars and trucks that turn into GIANT ROBOTS... do they really need flame decals that stopped being cool in the 70&#39;s to look rad? Nope.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:21 a.m. CST

    after superman....

    by redeye2000

    after the box office disseaster that superman returns is which i already predicted , you would have thought they would learn something. but i guess not. rules of creating a box office succes from a cartoon. 1. stick to the charchters from the cartoon as close as possible. that means dont ever, ever fuck with the most important charachter of the cartoon. in this case optimus prime and megatron. 2. a good script that either pleases the loyal fans as well as the fans who want a watch a popcorn movie. 3. amazing action. people watched the cartoons for the kick ass robot action. that means at least 5 good hardcore action scenes. not like superman returns where there are only 2. 4. create real drama between the characters. that means no romantic crap!!! REAL drama! remember that box office champ titanic? yup that is right. real drama sells. romantic crap doesnt. so make sure you have some good real drama. and dont go for the standard boy and robot drama. we have already seen that in giant robot. so try to surprise us! 5. confidence rule. arrogance suck 6. before you shoot the movie. have a talk back with the fans what they like to see in the movie and who they would like to see starring in it. this will already create a good atmosphere between the people who create the movie and who actually buy the tickets and keep the transformer universe alive and kickin! 7. hire me, for approving box office winning script and PR. i am not arrogant. i just have a lot of confidence and i as a comic and cartoon fan understand very well what the people like to see. that is all. see ya next year crying when this movie will tank at the box office after a first good weekend of 60 mil and next weekend 20 mil. somehow superman returns echos in my ear.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:22 a.m. CST

    wow, that had a point...

    by Rizzle Bizzle

    i know it heresey (sp?) to say anything against the AICN staff, but uh...geniuses, why make a post, essentially giving nothing but your opinion on a film, with absolutely nothing to back it up. i have a job. i was out of my house for a few hours (8, to be exact) and then when i see a post about a photo from transformers i am welcomed with...nothing. wow. guys, c&#39;mon. you&#39;re better than this. take the damn post off until you can secure an image that won&#39;t be repremanded an hour after you get it. seriously, that&#39;s just assinine. (ps, if my spelling sucks, fuck off, i work in a bar and am drunk, doesn&#39;t make me any less irritated)

  • July 12, 2006, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Not Likin&#39; What Meets The Eye

    by MarkoOhNo

    I was actually hoping maybe the story would include some Dinobots, but I don&#39;t think it will having read the latinoreview article. Maybe in the sequel, a few years from now. =P I don&#39;t like what I read though. "The Energon Cube"? Uhm... if there were only one, they&#39;d all be dead. *rolls eyes* Energon doesn&#39;t CREATE their spark, it FUELS their spark. But it sounds like they&#39;re gonna twist that all to fuck. Eh. It&#39;ll still be good. But it won&#39;t be GREAT unless they stay true to what already WORKS. They crash here on accident. The Decepticons try to drain the planet dry of energy to return to Cybertron and the Autobots try to stop them. That&#39;s it. That&#39;s all. Make me your screenwriter, I got it done for ya already, Mr Bay! lol I don&#39;t like that Bumblebee&#39;s a fricken CAMARO. That&#39;s so... just... Bumblebee&#39;s whole PURPOSE, the ability he brings to the Autobots is that he&#39;s FUEL EFFICIENT. He&#39;s not strong, he&#39;s not huge, he&#39;s not amazingly intelligent or wise, just fuel efficient and sneaky. Apparently Mr Bay either doesn&#39;t know this or has NEVER driven a Camaro. lol And I don&#39;t mind Optimus not being square-shaped so much just please, PLEASE don&#39;t make him look like he should be hauling a ferris wheel!

  • July 12, 2006, 3:27 a.m. CST


    by mocky_puppet

    i&#39;m not trying to mock anyone this time. i think i&#39;m probably just not a fan of the original, that&#39;s all. when you say "genre series or franchise", does that include Robotech? I really liked that one. Star Blazers. so there you go, that&#39;s my one straight response for the year.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Quint stop whining

    by board shitlez

    Just because someone doesn&#39;t fall at the feet of the almighty slavering internet are you going to start getting negative? We moan when films are over-commercialised and on this very site films have been slammed for being over-hyped. I guarantee when the film comes out we will all be sick of Optimus&#39;s metalic mug beaming out from Happy Meal bags. someone who is creative doesn&#39;t want a shitty image of his movie coming out. Good on him. "The Fans" will see it whatever. The bastard thing isn&#39;t out for an entire year!

  • July 12, 2006, 3:29 a.m. CST

    Optimus is wrong.

    by fortheloveofgod

    He should be red.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:30 a.m. CST

    you forgot there purpose

    by Phategod1

    the Dynobots where made to combat Davestator. there was no force at that time to fight devistator. Its what wheeljack came up with it wasn&#39;t a perfect reponse but it worked out. I forgot the Twins The sideswipe and sunstreaker you know what strikes me as funny but the nearly 20 year movie had the like of Leonard Nemoy Orson Wells, Robert Stack, Judd Nelson, and now we just want the OG&#39;s people who dont command million dollar salaries people who we grew up with as the voices of our childhood now they are now "Welcome to read for the part" Mr. Bay "you bargaining posture is highly dubious...Proceed on your way to oblivion"

  • July 12, 2006, 3:30 a.m. CST


    by bomardv

    DEAF: You do not listen to the fans, even though they pay your salary... BLIND: Only your vision matters, but the fans pay the ticket MUTE: Your ego makes you keep it quiet, and use a "quint", to cover up. It is not that unclear people, Mr bay sees the characters 3 years ago and goes: "Stupid robots!" sees the money and says, "let&#39;s do it! for the $!" when it comes to preproduction decisions says: "Well if I am gonna make money out of these stupid cartoon characters at least I am going to use cars I LIKE" Simply put. It looks like it is all for the money...

  • July 12, 2006, 3:33 a.m. CST

    Im tired

    by Phategod1

    i meant if they are not in the movie then MR. Bay "your bargaining posture is highly dubious....Proceed on your way to oblivion"

  • July 12, 2006, 3:35 a.m. CST

    If I Were Michael Bay...

    by MarkoOhNo;s the movie I would make: Millions of years ago, a convoy of transformers vanished while on some very important mission. (Perhaps they were bringing "the energon cube" to Cybertron. lol) No one knew where it crashed until the ship is disturbed on Earth, activating a homing signal. Autobots and Decepticons race to reach it first, battle in space and crash on our planet. The only surviving transformers on board the ancient ship have suffered damage over the years to their neural networks and were reconfigured millions of years ago to transform into dinosaurs. When the overly curious humans tamper with the ship, they awaken and go on a mindless onslaught. Blahblahblah... you&#39;re gettin&#39; me, right? Sounds good to me. Print it. Scene. Action. lol

  • July 12, 2006, 3:39 a.m. CST

    Yes, but why dinosaurs?

    by superninja

    To sell toys. Devistator wasn&#39;t a dinosaur. He was made up of Constructicons. I guess the Autobots get points for creativity, but not much else. Also, they are dumb as dirt (except for Grimlock). I get the whole Devistator thing, but that is some continuity we will not be seeing in this movie.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:41 a.m. CST

    I was hoping against hope, too, but THAT&#39;s just...


    ...fucking ridiculous. And I am certainly not one of those people who insists the cartoon was holy writ or something; that everything had to be exactly the same as it was 20 years ago, but damn... why fuck with something that is actually integral to the likeness of the character like that? That&#39;s worse than nipples on the Batsuit. That is almost as bad as Spider-Man being purple and green instead of red and blue and saying you&#39;re just "modernizing" the character for today&#39;s audiences. I have not yet lost all hope for the project, truth to tell. I STILL hope Bay can pull this one off (even though his track record for well-written movies is excrutiatingly dismal,) however... making a change like this seems clear to me they have no reluctance to snub us, the audience, and show us that it&#39;s "their" film, not "ours."

  • July 12, 2006, 3:42 a.m. CST

    You know you have been at AICN a long time...

    by LordEnigma

    When you see that Prime pic, and laugh your ass off. Easiy, one of, if not, funniest images ever posted on this website. HIFUCKINLARIOUS! I wonder how quickly that truck will get a paintjob in the morning? And do not imply that Superman Returns is a financial disaster. It had a crap ad campaign like Batman Begins had a crap ad campaign. The only DC film that has not had a crap campaign; V FOR VENDETTA! DC are making quality fucking comic book films now. It&#39;s not their fault if asshat teenagers do not want to see quality flicks leagues beyond anything from the 616 area code. That last statement, coming from a hardcore 616 fan. Michael Bay suped-up Prime. That&#39;s fucking funny.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:43 a.m. CST

    they were all dumb ass dirt

    by Phategod1

    but i thought they made better sense then a Concord supersonic jet that was afraid of hieghts I just took you back didnt I.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:49 a.m. CST

    Mark, you had it right the first time.

    by superninja

    The fact that they crash landed here and want to get back to Cyberton and are competing with humans for natural resources lends an air of desperation that makes things interesting. They have to deal with the fact they may never get off the planet, the Autobots have to put their needs second to protecting the humans, finite resources, etc. Instead we have them choosing to come here willingly to go on their quest for their magical McGuffin that they&#39;ve been fighting over for millions of years. The original premise was much more interesting. This is simply a quest formula, and one set on Earth at that, which makes it even less interesting. Usually, the quest takes place in fantastic realms and involves discovery. For instance, if a human was taken to Cybertron this could possibly be effective. But in reverse? I don&#39;t think so.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:53 a.m. CST

    Phate, we could get into retarded TF episodes

    by superninja

    all night. How about the one where they were all turned into humans by Cobra Commander and Hot Rod got hit on by the mob boss&#39;s girlfriend. W-w-w-WHAT?! See, we&#39;re not picky. We&#39;re not asking for that to be incorporated into the movie. Just some basic nuts and bolts.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:54 a.m. CST

    I SO don&#39;t get why people care this film at all

    by Rupee88

    You might as well be talking about a "Barney" movie or something. I was born in &#39;67, so I was probably a teenager when these Transformers were popular, but they seem dumb. The Micronauts were popular when I was a kid and I still didn&#39;t like them. Ok, the Shogun Warriors were cool, but I wouldn&#39;t be spooging for a Shogun Warriors movie. I&#39;m just out to lunch on this one...guess it is a generation gap sort of thing.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:55 a.m. CST

    My Transformers script pitch.


    I so totally wanted to make this damn movie. Unfortunately, even Michael Bay seems to have a leg-up in the industry over some never-been, no-career having bitch like me. What a world, huh? Anyway... if anyone gives a dead rat&#39;s ass (and even if you don&#39;t,) here&#39;s what I wanted to do with this movie. It opens on Cybertron, where the war between the Autobots and Decepticons is still raging, though soon to end. It&#39;s taken it&#39;s toll on the planet and on the robots from all the eons spent battling each other. The Autobots have nearly lost the war. They&#39;re fewer in numbers and not quite the fighters the Deceps are. They attempt a make-or-break ambush on Megatron, but the attack is turned around on them. Now that the Deceps have finally won the war, Megatron (who IS a tank, by the way,) declares out of "honor" for the beaten warriors that the Autobots are officially exiled from the planet. They all have to get on a ship and leave Cybertron forever. Any remaining will be killed on sight. Starscream immediately accuses Megatron of not having the courage to destroy them all now that they&#39;ve lost, but M-tron tells him the plan is to get all the Autobots out of hiding and into one place (their ship) where the Deceps can kill them all in one fell swoop. So the Bots get on the Ark and take off, Megatron and his best Deceps attempt to destroy the ship, but Optimus (being the brilliant leader) has anticipated this and gets the first shot out at the attacking Deceps. The Deceps have to board the Ark to finish the job, the battle continues hand-to-hand on the ship. Prime orders the weaker Autobots to escape the ship (which is almost all of them - only about seven major Autobot characters stay to fight - I knew the script wouldn&#39;t keep every character in the movie, which I assumed correctly.) Shit gets out-of-hand, the Ark veers off-course and crash-lands on Earth (just like the original cartoon pilot.) Everybody&#39;s knocked-out and near dead (or off-line), except for StarScream, who&#39;s just knocked out but was laying low on the ship (to avoid hand-to-hand combat, &#39;cause he&#39;s all talk and full of shit when it comes to action.) So he&#39;s the first to come back online after the Ark crashes in Texas. (I relocated the story from Oregon. I have my reasons.) So SS is online and spends a little time researching the Earth, it&#39;s inhabitants, it&#39;s machines, it&#39;s history, it&#39;s languages (no, the robots don&#39;t speak English on Cybertron,) and he finally decides to use Teletran-1 to redesign himself and the Decepticons to his specifications. They&#39;re brought to life and he declares he&#39;s the new leader of the Decepticons because he resurrected them all, redesigned them, and he knows the planet Earth, so they all need to listen to him, because he&#39;s got plans to conquer the place seven ways to Sunday. They exit the Ark, then SS shows everyone another little change he made with his new leadership - he&#39;s had Megatron redesigned from the titanic battletank he used to be into Starscream&#39;s personal sidearm. He shouts some verbal code that triggers M-tron&#39;s transformation into the gun against his will; in effect, making Megatron his bitch, &#39;cause now he can only transform at SS&#39;s order, and it&#39;s into a friggin&#39; gun. Anyway, SS uses Megatron to fire a shot at the Ark and the mountain it&#39;s stuck inside of, intending to destroy it, but instead, it reactivates Teletran-1 to continue the redesiging process SS started, rebuilding the remaining Autobots and bringing them back online. (Yeah, just like the original cartoon, again.) And since this ends the first act, and this post is getting retardedly long, I&#39;ll continue it in a second post. Stay tuned.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:58 a.m. CST

    Dream rapists

    by Rant Breath

    There should be a law against raping people&#39;s dreams. If Micheal Bay was capable of dreaming I&#39;d rape his dreams in return. Too bad he&#39;s soulles bag of shit. And Spielberg is just watching these assholes destroy Transformers. That fucker is dead to me.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:01 a.m. CST

    And I thought you stopped watching after Prime died?

    by Phategod1

  • July 12, 2006, 4:04 a.m. CST

    I&#39;ll go on record as predicting...

    by redtom

    ...this movie will be a typical Michael Bay-full-of-bombast-piece-of-poseur-crap but make a ton of money on its opening weekend - coz that&#39;s all they&#39;re after, innit?

  • July 12, 2006, 4:05 a.m. CST

    Paramount have no need to worry about the geeks

    by KCMOSHer

    This is a huge-budgeted summer tentpole from a proven huge-budgeted summer tentpole director based on a proven seller in the toy industry. They just don&#39;t need us, man, and frankly they&#39;d be fools to pander to us too much. I know that isn&#39;t what you want to hear, but this movie isn&#39;t aiming for the $40 million we could bring them, it&#39;s aiming for the $400 million the teeming masses who don&#39;t give two shits what color the damn truck is can bring them.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:09 a.m. CST


    by Shermdawg

    That would cost like 2 BILLION dollars to make. Just the first act alone.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:11 a.m. CST


    by BadMrWonka

    slow night at AICN + bored nerds = longest talkback ever...for a frickin&#39; TRUCK

  • July 12, 2006, 4:13 a.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    "Nuts and bolts"?? Please tell me there was no pun intended there. lol Anyway, yeah, but you&#39;ve gotta consider Hollywood and the "tried and true" formula to making a movie. =P It&#39;s like they refuse to print a movie if it doesn&#39;t follow the same pattern that&#39;s been cloned over and over for nearly 30 years. I know the original reason they crashed on Earth was because both forces were looking for new sources of energy (but mostly I wanted to think of a way to incorporate Dinobots in the same film. lol) I was just now watching Episode 1 and had to laugh. When Shockwave tells Megatron he&#39;ll keep Cybertron exactly how he leaves it, Megatron sounds EXACTLY like Mr Burns when he says, "Eeeexcellent!" lol

  • July 12, 2006, 4:13 a.m. CST

    Another Link

    by DaBigKahuna has the pic on their site

  • July 12, 2006, 4:14 a.m. CST

    maybe I was off with the Dinobots

    by Phategod1

    myabe for part two I dont think it makes since to go with whole Arielbots vs. Stunticons route I just hope they get the characters from the first season of G1 right from IronHide to starscream,Brawn to sound wave. Maybe they leave Mirage, Hound out of itor thundercraker allthough i love saying Thundercraker, C&#39;mon say it Thunder cracker, but this movie needs the essentials but it hard to have a war with 5 on 5 that a basketball game. I just wonder what Cybertron is going to look like hey SN what was that thing that let them go back n forth to cybertron I should not have forgotten this. is it the Space Bridge

  • July 12, 2006, 4:18 a.m. CST

    That was a nice bit of blackmail there, Quint.

    by Cash Bailey

    Oh well, I guess it&#39;s better than Harry caving in at the first phone call to save his precious &#39;pweasents&#39;.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:22 a.m. CST

    My Pitch, Part II


    So... the second act introduces the humans, Daniel and his dad Buster (Witwicky, if you must, but it probably wouldn&#39;t have been.) Buster is a widowed mechanic. A man&#39;s man. Daniel studies computers, science & technology. He&#39;s not a tough kid, and though he loves everything electronic, he&#39;s not necessarily mechanically inclined. This frustrates the hell out of Buster, who would like his son to follow in his mechanic footsteps and stop wasting all his time with all the highfalutin computer crap. Daniel tries to pass himself off as tougher than he really is, but it never "fits" him. A nerd is a nerd, even if he does try to apply himself a nickname... people tend to laugh when he tells them he goes by the name "Spike." So there&#39;s that. Spike and Buster - not exactly the perfect match of father and son. Meanwhile, Starscream&#39;s first act as the new Decepticon leader is to head to the Middle East to acquire as much of this planet&#39;s main source of fuel. As it just so happens, there&#39;s a war going on there between the residents of a certain country (not specified, but you get the idea) and American troops. The Deceps jump in and kick the asses of the side whose land contains the oil, which only helps the American forces, so it is quickly assumed that these amazing jet/robots are here to help the good guys, meaning the US. Megatron advises Starscream that the best strategy is to befriend the larger Superpower and use their friendship to their own advantage. In no time flat, CNN, Fox News, NBC, CBS and all the other major news outlets shout the story to the world that giant, "friendly" transforming robots have come to Earth and have befriended the US, aiding our fight against the War On Terror. (Yeah - the world believes the Decepticons are the good guys.) Back in Texas, as the Autobots are being revitalized, Optimus Prime has Blaster scanning Teletran-1 for just what the hell is going on in this world. They come across the news reports about the Deceps in the Middle East, and though they can&#39;t understand the report, they see the footage of the Decepticons "helping the army" and being welcomed and Starscream speaking to the Earthlings in their own language. Prime wants to do something about it, but the Bots are all still in pretty weak shape and still being put back together, so he knows it&#39;s too late and their screwed. About this time, Daniel stumbles on to the Autobots (I won&#39;t go into how,) and uses the dictionary and encyclopedia program in his laptop to help teach them the basics of the English language. From there, Teletran-1 is able to create a patch for all the Autobots to load into their programming to speak the language. Blaster and Spike (as he introduces himself to the Autobots and they accept without any irony) hack into Spike&#39;s credit card account and raise his credit limit by several thousands of dollars so the Autobots can go fuel up (or at least buy the gas, which they can turn into Energon back at the Ark.) Along the way, Spike gets to know Bumblebee and finds out some Cybertron history. Turns out the battle between the Autobots and the Decepticons is actually something like a religious war regarding what happens to the robots when they die. See, according to Cybertron&#39;s history, when you die, your parts live on. You&#39;re reassembled into a new robot. Or rather, new robots. You get recycled so that your "soul" is honored by helping to create a new life. But somewhere along the line, some robots decided that wasn&#39;t right. When you die, you should be laid to rest or destroyed and honored by your memory. Then new Transformers would be created, then they would die, then they&#39;d be scrapped and then the next generation would come and so on and so on. Of course, the main problem with that is that resources on any planet are finite and eventually, if resources aren&#39;t reused, you&#39;ll run out of them. So those who believe in simply building the next generation decide other planets will have to be used as building materials for tomorrow&#39;s robots. That conquering other planets is just a necessary step in the continuation of their line. The ones who believed in the traditional, reuse/reincarnation plan became the Autobots. The conquering, bury-the-dead side became the Decepticons. And because of the Deceps&#39; proliferation throughout Cybertron, their planets&#39; resources are almost at zero. They&#39;ve almost destroyed the planet because of their beliefs. And Spike realizes immediately that they&#39;ll do the same to Earth unless they&#39;re stopped. ***** So from there on goes the second act: The Decepticons are taken for friends by the free world, Megatron (who eventually is able to undo SS&#39;s "code-command" of his transforming function, kick the shit out of SS for it, and reclaim his leadership of the Deceps) has the world convinced the Autobots are the dangerous bad guys; the Autobots have to use their disguises to survive, while Spike and a few other humans help them out the best they can to save the world from the Decepticons when the world considers the Autobots the enemies all the while; Spike takes the Autobots on as friends (and once or twice gets to cruise around in a kick-ass Porsche or Ferrari to impress girls;) Megatron uses his celebrity and the goodwill of the US (as well as a Senator with Presidential aspirations to champion M-tron&#39;s causes into legislation) in order to steal the planet&#39;s resources out from under us; and Spike and the Autobots devise ways to use reusable fuels to power the Autobots instead of the fossil fuels the Decepticons become focused on. I know it sounds all Eco-friendly and tree-huggish --which I am not-- but it&#39;s hard to deny that reusable fuel sources make sense over the common fuels we&#39;ve been using for the past hundred years. And anyway, amidst all the dynamics of the Decepticons&#39; public facade, the Autobots non-welcome on Earth, Spike&#39;s friendship with the Autobots and his relationship with his father, there would be as many outrageous set pieces throughout the script involving battles, races, escapes, and chases (kind of like the ones Quint says Bay is planning, which I have to admit I want to see - Bay sure can blow some shit up) as could be imagined. Now at this point, I know my script ideas will never be used, but I still wish I could&#39;ve been the lucky bastard who got to write the thing. And in the Sequel, I would&#39;ve brought in Circuit Breaker from the comic book. Anyone remember her? She was badass. And to anyone who actually read all this shit - hey, thanks for your time.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:24 a.m. CST

    I always wondered...

    by RetroActive

    why Optimus&#39; face looked like the Decepticon symbol and Megatron&#39;s face looked like the Autobot&#39;s symbol. I really hope they get Peter Cullen. And I don&#39;t think the truck looks that bad. Plus, a toy movie needs to sell toys. And they won&#39;t be selling them to the old fans, I can tell you that...

  • July 12, 2006, 4:26 a.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    Yes -- Space Bridge. I read that Ironhide will be a pickup, and I suppose that&#39;s okay. Better than him turning into a damned minivan. LOL And you know he would if they tried to keep the van image, instead of a VW van. Notice how they&#39;re completely SNUBbing VW?? Something tells me the full title is Transformers: A Michael Bay Movie, Sponsored By Cheverolet and BET. LOL

  • July 12, 2006, 4:28 a.m. CST


    by RetroActive

    Interesting. I like the idea of the Decepticons being taken in as "good guys". And the alternative fuel thing could long as the studio didn&#39;t turn your idea into a GI Joe book end of, "...and knowing is half the battle" cheese-fest.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:31 a.m. CST

    Oh that fucking settles it!!

    by Horseflesh

    If that&#39;s Prime I&#39;m going to go pirate every movie Bay&#39;s ever made just so I can snap the discs in half.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:33 a.m. CST


    by RetroActive

    I wonder if Disney holds the rights to VW because of those stupid Herbie movies...I do hope the cars aren&#39;t all GM makes or something. I wonder what that means for Megatron. Smith & Wesson inspired? Ten bucks says all the soccer mom groups wield their influence and he just ends up turning into an asbestos coated, pure lead pencil that slowly kills you over 50 years after it stabs you.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:34 a.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    Not if they make &#39;em look shitty like most of the more recent Transformers toys, anyway! LOL Seriously though, you&#39;re not thinking about collectors. My brother-in-law would be a millionaire if he could get himself to put the 30+ years worth of toys, comics & memorabilia he has up on eBay. heh Too much emotional attachment I guess. I can relate. Anyway, somewhere shortly after Transformers The Movie, the series completely bought it. When Optimus died, the title & toy line went with him. We&#39;re all hoping Bay will turn out to be our mechanical moviegoing messiah.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:40 a.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    The parents have already had their way with Megatron and left him crying in a fetal position. That&#39;s why he never transforms into a gun anymore. And I guarantee you, if he transforms into a gun in the movie, his toy will be freakin PINK!! All &#39;cause some stupid cop shot a kid holding a toy gun a few decades ago and didn&#39;t think to use the twinkee defense in court. All the same, it&#39;s a wonder I wasn&#39;t on the news the day I got Megatron. I was so happy that I took him to school and walked the halls with him in gun form. LOL Seriously! Today you&#39;d get shot for that.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:50 a.m. CST


    by rich82

    Yes the flames look terrible. But the truck doesn&#39;t look that bad. They could&#39;ve put the pic up just to test fan reaction, hence the reason why it was taken down so quickly. Should they not use Cullen&#39;s voice, this is the only cartoon/comic film that fans will go through on their threats of boycotting. No Cullen, no Transformers, simple as that.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:51 a.m. CST

    Will they all have tinted windows

    by DishyDish

    or will people not be freaked out that these vehicles don&#39;t have drivers?

  • July 12, 2006, 4:54 a.m. CST


    by DirkD13"

    is a beetle, not a camaro. Ever since this was revealed my hope for this to be the film it SHOULD be, (ie the one that all 80&#39;s kids wants) died a horrible death. I&#39;ll stick to the entire cartoon series and movie on my shitty VHS thankyou. Obviously VW bettles aren&#39;t that popular, so they turned Bumblebee into a car that is 100% American. God i love Hollywood, after all, it&#39;s only their opinions that count. This&#39;ll have a $60 million opening weekend then fade fast with a final domestic of $120 million and international of $250 million, so they can do what they want can&#39;t they, they know it&#39;ll make money.

  • July 12, 2006, 5 a.m. CST

    AICN Pride Week?

    by BannedOnTheRun

    Please ditch the old skool Anibar.gif. It&#39;s just soooo gay...not that there&#39;s anything wrong with that. Oh, FWIW...I&#39;m 38 and completely missed out on Transformers (He-Man too). Never seen it. What age are the hardcore fans?

  • July 12, 2006, 5 a.m. CST


    by RetroActive

    Yeah, the series took a tumble...mainly because they killed Optimus. No argument, there. I mean, that new kid they made the leader was such a tool, anyway.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:01 a.m. CST

    optimus prime and a hot girl

    by BadMrWonka

    not for nothing, but if you type "optimus prime" into google, one of the first sites you see is this hot girl: not that I&#39;m complaining, but...huh?

  • July 12, 2006, 5:07 a.m. CST


    by RetroActive

    They just shut down the last old VW plant in Mexico two years ago. It&#39;s such a recognizable car, and they still make them in a modern style...unlike the camaro, which is a discontinued brand. But you knew they&#39;d have to screw it up by making the vehicle something else. Hollywood always has a "better" idea than what was working well in the first place. Knucklehead execs.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:09 a.m. CST

    Banned on the Run: Re: Transformers fan base

    by RetroActive

    Between 27 & 33 years old.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:21 a.m. CST

    How about this

    by Dodgy

  • July 12, 2006, 5:22 a.m. CST

    I am so...

    by El_Jibarito

    Furious! Before anything, this is my first talkback and I want to thank you all for letting me air my thoughts to such a great community of intelligent, opinionated individuals. I was born in &#39;86. I used to watch Transformers and had the toys. I remember Optimus red and blue. Not gay. Gay as in a male lacking masculinity. Seriously. A flat front cab that&#39;s red. Not that hard. What I just saw is bullshit. Mikey Bay paints a truck red and makes everyone happy. He hires Cullen, THE voice, and everyone is happy. I seriously can&#39;t vent my anger. I feel like I enjoyed watching someone set an amazing line of dominos and it was so much fun and you loved it. Then someone comes and knocks them over and puts a new set in its place. Yeah, they&#39;re still dominos and they do the same thing but they&#39;re not the dominos you saw in the first place. Damn, when I was a kid, Transformers was about a simple flat cab red truck that FUCKING TRANSFORMED INTO A MECHANICAL WARRIOR!!!!! It was just a plain truck but get this, it was a DISGUISE. Not flaming down the highway like a Cars reject. How do you screw that up. EASY. YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE SOURCE MATERIAL, THE FANS, THE TOYLINE... THIS IS A BIG DEAL. ITS NOT JUST A TRUCK, IT IS A COMMENTARY ON MICHAEL BAY&#39;S STANCE ON THIS PROJECT. ABSOLUTE DISREGARD. IF MIKE HAS NO RESPECT IN THIS PROJECT, I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR HIS "VISION" OF TRANSFORMERS. Why couldn&#39;t he just adapt a really cool cartoon show into a cool fun kickass movie? I CAN&#39;T BELIEVE I AM SO MAD. GOD, I HOPE THAT PICTURE IS FAKE.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:22 a.m. CST

    Tinted Windows

    by MarkoOhNo

    You must not remember, they had their ways of appearing as though they had drivers. In the cartoons, they used holigraphic imagery (in episode 2, anyway.) And in the comic books, I think they had inflatable humans. lol I hope in the movie they remember that the Autobots aren&#39;t warriors, which is what makes them the severe underdogs. They&#39;re mostly all mechanics and technicians. And I hope they keep in mind that human artillary is ineffective against Transformers (although GI Joe forces managed to blow up Bumblebee once, as I recall.) So many little details they need to be sure they don&#39;t race over if they&#39;re going to be more than CGI background for Tyrese.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:25 a.m. CST

    Is nobody thinking...

    by paulyp007

    This is actually Rodimus Prime and therefore a pretty big spoiler for the film, hence Paramounts reaction. Look at this pic of Rodimus

  • July 12, 2006, 5:31 a.m. CST

    The Failure of Superman (and like movies)

    by Gorrister

    The success/failure of Transformers will come down to the same issue that caused Superman to fail - budget. If Superman had been made at a more modest budget, it would be considered a hit movie. Instead, Singer and the studio rang up a $260 million total (not including marketing) which made it so that Superman could only make a profit if it had Titanic-esque staying power in the theaters. Staying power is the only thing that saved Peter Jackson and King Kong from total disaster. Transformers is an extremely problematic concept to put on the big screen. They could go two ways on this one: 1) stay faithful to hardcore (read: middle-age) fans, which means a limited audience appeal. This means their best bet is to make this film for the least amount of money possible. or 2) Give it a decent budget and go for a new, younger audience (read: kids). This means Godzilla-esque kids running around with supersized robots, less complex plotlines and a few fart jokes. To me, Transformers as a live-action motion picture is a lose-lose scenario. It would probably have been best to make this a miniseies on the SciFi Channel (just like Dune was).

  • July 12, 2006, 5:33 a.m. CST

    Original Rodimus Prime

    by DishyDish

    Was very similar to Optimus, but white.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:33 a.m. CST

    Ridiculous argument

    by Brendan3

    You&#39;re arguing over whether Michael Bay will keep the integrity of a kids cartoon?... not even a good one at that... but a cartoon whose sole purpose was to sell toys by making all the charachters great big fighting toys. ---- Next you&#39;ll be worrying about the integrity of the BARNEY movie if Joel Schumacher gets it. Jeez.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:39 a.m. CST


    by Jibarito

    GO MIKEY! That&#39;s great! Maybe we all need to be optimistic and consider this might be more than just robots shooting shit up... If that is R Prime...that&#39;s a pretty good celluloid interpretation...Mikey Bay has a great think tank of fans out there, he seriously can&#39;t crash and burn that bad...he cant . I know he can I just don&#39;t want to accept that. I hope he blows me away with crazy stuff I can&#39;t imagine...fingers crossed...P.S. Sorry for that rant up there. Won&#39;t happen again

  • July 12, 2006, 5:42 a.m. CST

    My bad

    by DishyDish

    I was thinking of Ultra Magnus.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:50 a.m. CST

    just wondering...

    by Jibarito

    As fans of the series and as film fanatics what are your expectations and personal preferences about the running time of the film and the rating? I would go for 2 hour PG-13 or hard PG. How do you think it should be marketed? Stuff like that..

  • July 12, 2006, 5:57 a.m. CST

    What&#39;s left now?

    by Per128_

    You&#39;ve stripped Transformers to the point where the only connection is has to the original is big transforming robots. This is much worse than what they did to any other comic book property. What if they&#39;d release a new BATMAN movie starring ass-dick and fuck-wad, two french politicians that practice S&M.. oh and wait, they use the bat-signal to communicate with E.T. There&#39;s the link, so obviously you can use the brandname.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:03 a.m. CST

    Read out loud. It&#39;ll make sense.

    by RowanM

    Derdego. Forte laures inaro. demarent laures, demar trux. Fulov causen hensan dux.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:11 a.m. CST

    Prime&#39;s ROBOT form revealed! MAN IN SUIT!

    by TKO

  • July 12, 2006, 6:20 a.m. CST

    Here&#39;s the picture again

    by Brendon Any body else got anything more in their cache they&#39;d like me to put up online? Visit the above site and let me know.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:35 a.m. CST

    Not My Bag, Baby.

    by Evil Chicken

    I hope it&#39;s a good movie, but I

  • July 12, 2006, 6:39 a.m. CST


    by Brendon

    ...the FX in the newer Citoren ad just aren&#39;t as good as those in the 1st. Its not as easy to pull of as it looks, I guess. And Bay is... a tecnician, but not a craftsman. So... I don&#39;t expect anything from this at all. Not anything good, anyway.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:10 a.m. CST

    for FUCKS SAKE

    by jrclanto

    you have to get OP right. even if they fuck up the rest they have to get him right. good lord. Yack is right, they still make flat front semis so WHY NOT USE ONE???? Hey Bay, go fuck yourself with one of your sweeping dolly shots.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:23 a.m. CST

    It&#39;s on Wikipedia!

    by JerryDan

    Well, probably not for long...

  • July 12, 2006, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Check this out

    by jrclanto

    lots of background info plus the new pic....scroll all the way down.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:29 a.m. CST


    by Dolph

    All that spiel(berg) you gave about loving transformers, wanting to do it right. HOW are you letting this abysmal design come to fruition?! I understand things can&#39;t be exactly like the cartoon...but COME ONE!! Prime is a flat-faced truck, could even be a more modern version! But this?! It&#39;s like the truck from Duel mated with a frequenter of the Blue Oyster.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Don Murphy HAS to read his own message board.

    by JackPumpkinhead

    He was banned from all other ones!

  • July 12, 2006, 7:38 a.m. CST

    Still on

    by MJAYACE

    wikipedia. I don&#39;t see what the big deal is--its a semi. Looks good to me. I think this movie will be spectacular if they can seamlessly blend the CGI and live action and give some depth to the plot and characters.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:44 a.m. CST

    OK, here&#39;s a copy of that photo.

    by JackPumpkinhead


  • July 12, 2006, 7:46 a.m. CST


    by blackwood

    Man, asleep at the switch for this one.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:49 a.m. CST

    But really, here it is.

    by JackPumpkinhead

    The REAL one:

  • July 12, 2006, 7:54 a.m. CST


    by Dolph

    It&#39;s quite possible for people to have well-rounded lives (yes, that includes getting laid) AND care passionately about a property they love. Hell, I know there had to be changes, of course Megatron can&#39;t be a gun etc etc...but this is seriously f***king with an important iconic character...Raimi didn&#39;t do it...someone above said, imagine they&#39;d have put him in green in purple, made him overweight and middle-aged...

  • July 12, 2006, 7:58 a.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Bay is truly the most stupid hack director I&#39;ve ever seen. He can&#39;t even partially secure the fanbase of one of the most lucrative properties out there. All he has to do is create a red and blue truck that bares a striking resemblence to the main character of old, and he cant even do that. I&#39;ve honestly never seen someone so devoid of creativity and so broiled in the hollywood mentality. Michael Bay is the posterchild, the stereotype, of modern hollywood. If this is the best Bay can do, if he can only give us a black freightliner with red flames and ban Cullen from the set, I will NEVER pay money to see this film. Not ever--never.

  • July 12, 2006, 8 a.m. CST

    (I added the overweight and middle aged bit...)

    by Dolph

    I&#39;m with you moondoggy...if that is indeed what Prime will look like, I am not paying money to see this film.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Freightliner Argosy!!!

    by YourDaddy

    How fucking hard is it to get Prime right? Whats all this bullshit about his design being outdated when you have this available Get it right fuckers!

  • July 12, 2006, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Oh noes! It&#39;s got flames on the cab!

    by rev_skarekroe

    My childhood! Raped! Boo-hoo-hoo!

  • July 12, 2006, 8:06 a.m. CST

    Wow! It sucks worse then I could have imagined.

    by tile_mcgillus

    Im glad to see it is at least a truck and not a mechanical dog. Why flames? So what if the G2 toy had sweet flames it looked stupid. Someone needs to punch these directors who think they know better than history! At least I&#39;ll always have the real transformers movie.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:12 a.m. CST

    YourDaddy....THAT&#39;S Prime

    by Dolph

    How difficult is it!?

  • July 12, 2006, 8:13 a.m. CST


    by falawful-314

    Seriously, it used to piss me off reading these Talkbacks because of all the self-importance and high-minded wankery, but I&#39;ve taken some yoga and I&#39;ve come to accept the Talkback nature for what it is. It&#39;s like EVERY bad stereotype of geeks come to beautiful life!!! "Oh, oh, the Superman was magenta, not blood red ... IT JUST WASN&#39;T SUPERMAN! No wonder it had only the EIGHTH biggest opening of any film in history. LOL. What a FAILURE ... just like I predicted, haw, haw. <Insert playground-level homophobic remark here, along with some thinly-veiled racist joke> Oh, and since when does Clark where OVAL frames ... ANYONE who&#39;s EVER read the comic knows that he wears square frames! Piss off the fans and look what happens. You get a mere $150 million in two weeks. THE FANS HAVE SPOKEN!!! Now bow to our whims before we strike again. More action! More &#39;spolsions! More faithfulness to a two-bit TV show designed solely to sell toys! And for God&#39;s sake, DON&#39;T EVER SURPRISE US WITH ANYTHING THAT DEVIATES FROM OUR FAN-SCRIPTS THAT WE WROTE BETWEEN D&D SESSIONS!!! We all know that Superman is only a level 5 superhero ... he couldn&#39;t lift a continent. Where&#39;s <enter obscure villain&#39;s name here>? Why can&#39;t we have the Secret Wars? Why can&#39;t we have Skrulls? Why, oh why, don&#39;t they give me a job at a big studio because I&#39;d obviously do a better job than anyone making films that don&#39;t reflect exactly what I see in my head before I go to sleep at night ..." Keep on keepin&#39; on, you guys! And make sure every Ang Lee or Bryan Singer vision gets trashed to high heaven (Hulk&#39;s not 15 feet, he&#39;s 10 feet for Christ&#39;s sake!!! AAAARGGHH!) ... that way, we&#39;ll be guaranteed a glorious future of Tim Story/Bret Ratner &#39;spolsion-fests with ALL THE MTV CATCH-PHRASES YOU CAN SHAKE A STICK AT ... oh, and they&#39;ll use yellow spandex next time, because focus groups suggest it&#39;s what the "true fans" demand ...

  • July 12, 2006, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Sorry superninja, but you&#39;re projecting...

    by Childe Roland

    ...your own perceptions and feelings onto cartoons. Superman is not inherently American. He happens to live in America, but he is the world&#39;s hero. He was instilled with core Midwestern values concerning the value of human life and the need to sometimes fight for peace, but he&#39;s an alien by birth. So&#39;s Prime. And don&#39;t give me the red, white and blue schtick, either. Superman is red, blue and yellow. Prime has as much gray/silver in him as white. You&#39;re perfectly entitled to perceive these characters as standing for all you personally believe in. Hell, that&#39;s part of catharsis. But you&#39;ll never be able to tell anyone else they&#39;re wrong for not reading the same concepts into them. That&#39;s just asinine. As for the "if it doesn&#39;t look exactly like my G1 Prime, I&#39;m boycotting" crowd, you go girls. See what good it will do you. Fan resistance may have been able to tank a fringe character film like Catwoman, but this is Transformers. Kids today don&#39;t have the same associations with G1 Prime that you (or I do). They&#39;ve seen him as a gorilla and a fire truck more recently than they&#39;ve seen him as a box-cabbed truck. Hell, many have seen the toy linked above more recently and at least a couple of variations on the truck theme since in cartoon form. Bottom line is, you&#39;re an acceptable risk for the film makers and the only thing you&#39;ll be preventing by refusing to see this movie will be yourself from experiencing it and the possibility that you just might like it. But that&#39;s okay. You&#39;re all much funnier with your incessant whining about change being bad and your heads buried in the 1980s, anyway.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Oh please, Roland

    by moondoggy2u

    If I were an artist and were hired to paint a portrait of you, would I have any boundaries? Would I be allowed to paint you with different skin color? I&#39;m just asking because, after all, you are getting a painting, which is the important part, right? It doesnt matter if it actually resembles the original source material&#39;s design so long as it represents a human male, right? AFter all, I would have the basics down pat; a human male, two legs, two arms, and a face. Yeah, it looks nothing like you, but you are just getting caught up in the details when my vision is what counts and you should just shut up and enjoy my "portrait." In fact, I dare say you should be GRATEFUL to pay me for NOT giving you what you paid for, and if you complain about it in the slightest, I&#39;m going to call you a selfish fanboy who&#39;s too caught up in the past, too devoted to what you want rather than taking a chance on my vision. Now give me your money and stop whining. Honestly, you look better as a bald asian.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:36 a.m. CST

    I grew up in the late 80&#39;s

    by Lost Prophet

    and remember the cartoon really clearly, but I am struggling summon up one iota of surprise about this. Why is anyone remotely shocked that Bay is turning out utter shite?

  • July 12, 2006, 8:44 a.m. CST

    This is Prime right here bitches!!

    by YourDaddy Prime needs updating? My fucking ass he does!! Its a brand new fucking truck!!

  • July 12, 2006, 8:52 a.m. CST


    by TheResident


  • July 12, 2006, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Wow, wow, wow - that&#39;s bad. Is that a joke?

    by LilOgre

    I admit I have not been the biggest proponent of this film but the recent fan video of Prime got me a little excited. But EVERYTHING that I&#39;ve heard about the actual Michael Bay production from Quint, Michael Clarke Duncan at Latino Review, to the teaser trailer has made me think this is going to be a major crap-fest. And this truck with flames looks like something Cledus Snow might drive around - the only thing its missing are the trademark chrome nude silhouette mud flaps.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Actually, moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...if I shaved my head I would look kind of like a bald Asian (thanks to the almond eyes). But that&#39;s both beside the point and reinforces the point I&#39;m making. The Prime they showed is actually what Prime looked like once. If you painted a portrait of me from a photograph taken while I was in my pony-tailed and pastel-wearing high school days during the late 80s, I really couldn&#39;t accuse you of not getting it right, could I? I might be embarrassed about it, as the late 80s are a period of my life (particularly where my fashion sense or lack thereof was concerned) that I would rather forget, but you certainly didn&#39;t rape my character in any way by showing me as I once actually appeared. That&#39;s the point you fail to grasp. You people complaining that Bay got Prime wrong (assuming that was the actual design) don&#39;t have a leg to stand on. What Bay did was pick a Prime design from an era of perfectly legitimate Transformers history that you aren&#39;t personally enamored with. Sounds more like a you problem than a Bay problem to me.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:58 a.m. CST

    Where are the Yosemite Sam mudflaps?

    by Ricky Henderson

    And where&#39;s my Teddy Ruxpin movie, directed by Tony Scott?

  • July 12, 2006, 9:09 a.m. CST


    by rev_skarekroe

    You rawk. Too bad nobody will pay any attention to what you and I have to say. They&#39;re too busy masturbating each other over how much of a travesty against humanity it is that the truck is partly black instead of solid red.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:16 a.m. CST

    I Get the Feeling This Movie Is Going To SUCK

    by ZombieSolutions

    i love the TRANSFORMERS series and movie regardless of the fact that it was a essentially one long multi-tiered toy commercial, and I have a sneakng suspciain that Bay&#39;s vision is going to suck dead donkey balls; be prepared for the geek backlash; vomiting with rage at the so-called childhood memory rape (hate that phrase, but you know its coming sooner or later)...

  • July 12, 2006, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Paramount&#39;s revised PRIME photo is up...

    by McGsStepson

    Due to the feedback over the past 12 hours, they&#39;ve revised their concept:

  • July 12, 2006, 9:18 a.m. CST

    ^Loved he Animated Movie, That Is...

    by ZombieSolutions

    Bay&#39;s will suck and its going to bomb. willing to lay money on it.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:19 a.m. CST

    After having seen the picture last night...

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    ...I have to say, the truck style grew on me. I can see why they might go with that design: no trailer but he&#39;s still massive. How do you do that? You go the Peterbilt route. And yes, he&#39;s not really red...he&#39;s blue/black with red flames. Ultimately, you guys are all OVERREACTING. It&#39;s how he (and every other Transformer) will look in his robot mode that will make all the difference. But you can&#39;t possibly tell me that the idea of that road-hog slamming through a line of Deceptibums ala the "Porkchop Express" doesn&#39;t get you excited?! Fuck off, man.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:24 a.m. CST

    Of course it will suck

    by Lost Prophet

    This is the man responsible for Pearl Harbour.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Interesting to see how they deal with Prime&#39;s weight

    by McGsStepson

    he clearly has a little paunch, assuming the windshield is his chest. but then again who knows!

  • July 12, 2006, 9:29 a.m. CST

    by otaku-spooge

    Prime transforms and says "A essay, what set you from decepticon bum?" and Megatron replies "Your momma&#39;s Beeeeeyaaaaaaiich!" *Queue* bad techno remix of the lowrider song with annoying and outplace shouts of *TOKYO*. Then Prime and Megatron have a race even though Megs is a tank they can keep up with each other and start drifting to see who will rule the energon resources of the earth. FUCK YOU HOLLYWOOD!

  • July 12, 2006, 9:30 a.m. CST

    Lets see how he looks transformed, ok?

    by Ricky Henderson

    Yes, this doesn&#39;t look good so far, but perhaps Prime transformed will win us over...

  • July 12, 2006, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Prime transformed?

    by otaku-spooge

    I bet he turns into a disco taco stand.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:32 a.m. CST

    New wallpaper and AIM icons up at movie website.

    by LilOgre

    very traditional.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Regarding that link I posted earlier here -

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    (I had posted this in Quint&#39;s set-visit TB, too.) I found that on YouTube. Apparently, it is a sanctioned preview for the movie shown at some Transformers convention. It contains a lot of fan testimonials, random series clips, and various internet test footage. HOWEVER, pay attention for the segment where Spielberg appears. You will notice that there are some actual Pre-Viz shots for upcoming scenes in the movie. You can tell by the text at the bottom of the screen. there are also a couple of quick shots of concept art (I noticed Optimus&#39;s head). It&#39;s very brief and I wish it was better quality. Check it before it&#39;s yanked off YouTube. Cheers. * Update: I believe the segment of Pre-Viz shows a helicopter transformer...Vortex, maybe?

  • July 12, 2006, 9:37 a.m. CST


    by HarriPannus

    I just showed my 6 year old son, a huge fan who has watched all the 80&#39;s episodes mulitple times, the picture, and his first reaction was: "Hey, that&#39;s Rodimus!"

  • July 12, 2006, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Wasn&#39;t every 80&#39;s kid a latchkey kid?

    by MrBoinfoint

    The 80&#39;s: when parental responsibilities died, along with Optimus Prime. Funnily enough, I still have never seen the Transformers Movie. Once I heard that all of my favorite Transformers were killed, and a bunch of lame-ass new ones introduced (Hot Rod, Kup, that Scourge thing - robot&#39;s with beards? wtf?), and Megatron was replaced with a purple laser canon, I said "Forget it. Not gonna happen." Consequently I stopped watching the show and collecting the toys. It was about that time that I fell headlong into Robotech/Macross anyway. Too bad about the red flames. At least he is still a semi. I knew Bay wouldn&#39;t go with the square blocky Mack version. Lets wait and see how it looks in robot mode before we get really pissed, shall we? &#39;Cause that&#39;s where he&#39;ll truly let us down. "Give it to me straight, Ratchet." "I"m afraid it&#39;s prostate cancer, Prime."

  • July 12, 2006, 9:48 a.m. CST

    Spin control!

    by tile_mcgillus

    The studio should post one pic of a transformed robot that is fucking awesome........problem solved.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Reimagining a Classic

    by Gorrister

    Perhaps Michael Bay should have taken a que from Ron Moore. When Moore reimagined Battlestar Galactica, one of the more brilliant ideas was, while he was making major changes in one area, he made only slight changes in other areas. In other words, Galactica and the Vipers were pretty darn close to looking like the originals from the 70&#39;s while the Cylons underwent a major overhaul. Perhaps Bay should have decided to pretty much leave Prime and Megatron alone and get &#39;creative&#39; with the other characters.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Post from the year 2025

    by Larry of Arabia

    Power Rangers with capes? Come on Uwe Boll! We expect more from you after that kickass Dora the Explorer trilogy.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Roland--sorry for this long post

    by moondoggy2u

    Hey, Superman once wore that blue lightening suit or whatever, didnt he? Sounds like its perfect for a supes movie. Sure, it doesnt capture the iconic image, but at least its A image. Remember, following your logic, we&#39;d have ended up with McG supes (reguardless of your Superman Returns feelings, the mcG supes would have been a failure as well). Also, we should have all embraced Catwoman because she was...well...a catwoman. By the way, I wish to clarify something: Im not bitching over this thing being a peterbuilt-looking truck versus a mac cabover--that doesnt bother me at all. My only issue is with the colors and, if at all possible, Cullen&#39;s voice. Yes, I agree, there have been characters throughout the entirety of hollywood makeovers that dont look like their source material--I get it. The problem I have is that for nearly all the fans of transformers, including new ones, the "classic look" of Prime leaps out ahead of the pack by an almost unanimous majority. The difference between the image I, and pretty much everybody who isn&#39;t Michael Bay, want and the image Bay is foisting is that one is iconic while the other is a forgetable image NO ONE wanted. Basically, alls Im saying is that a director is free to take liberties with his source material, and often has to, but there is such a thing as too much. In my opinion, when Prime wont look like prime, im out. Just remember that everyone outside of this production, and more than a few inside it, have already expressed either doubt about Bay&#39;s complete character revamps and poor decisions. If your audience is composed of kids and adults and the adults are clamoring for a classic, iconic optimus prime depicted with respect and the kids dont care just so long as they get their robot action, what would it matter to hire Cullen or make Prime resemble, as close as possible, the classic image? What would it hurt? It would certainly be cheaper to hire cullen, who&#39;s proven himself effective, and generate much more positive publicity to depict prime as the image that remains most iconic. There is such an obvious desire from the fans to see and hear the Prime of old that can so easily be fulfilled and result in a much more positive business dynamic that to not do so damn near borders on spite and condescension. Look what happened to Pearl Harbor when millions of vets felt the same way I did a few years ago? Bay&#39;s obvious condescension to veterans, warfare, and the tragedy itself led to millions of vets boycotting the film, myself included. Remember that shot of the bomb in pearl harbor, the one where the audience is supposed to go "wow, cool" when the "ride the bomb" down to the Arizona (I think thats what the boat was, but dont quote me)? That shot showed exactly why Bay truly didnt understand his source material and instead depicted an action movie and relegated the sacrafices of that day to that of a cartoon. Yeah, I know its a bit extreme to compare pearl harbor&#39;s insult to vets with Bay&#39;s newest film pissing of transformer fans, but there is something of a correlation. Bay truly does not give a damn about his source material. He just wants to show explosions and will show none of the heart, none of the character, and none of the reverence for what made us all fans in the first place. I dont know if Im alone in feeling this way or in my actions, and I really don&#39;t care, but I for one wont pay to see this movie until I see some major changes. You can criticize me all you want, but that is how I feel about it.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:02 a.m. CST

    Whiny bunch of ....

    by cjplotts

    Where do IDIOTS get off. Somebody sneaks a peak at A TRUCK, and suddenly the world is going to end? If that IS the truck they are using for Optimus Prime then that shows that somebody thinks OP should have some BALLS. If i was going to come to life as a truck I&#39;d much rather be a manly Peterbuilt, than a metrosexual Freightliner. Let the guys get the job done. Its too late for your whiny words to change production, so let be what will be and if you don&#39;t like it make your own movie. If you paid a buck for every word of "I&#39;m a geek and know better that you" I&#39;ve read on this site latly you&#39;d have your budget right there.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:02 a.m. CST

    Man, do you babies EVER stop bitching?

    by googamooga

    I laugh my ass off at all the tards who post in these forums. This is a movie about robots, giant robots that turn into cars, planes, etc. I guarantee that ALL of you whiners who are going for that "elite snob" thing right now by bashing the 2 or 3 pics you&#39;ve seen (which shows NOTHING about how the film will be, BTW) will be first in line on July 7th next year. Of course you&#39;ll all still say "This film will be total shite, but I just HAD to see for myself..." or something to that effect. Good God, people, we&#39;re talking about a cartoon being translated to live action. A cartoon, BTW, that probably more than half of you weren&#39;t even around to see when it came on the first time. So from one geek to another, can we please STFU about all the "ass raping of my childhood" stuff? Please?

  • July 12, 2006, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Count on this movie sucking in 2007.

    by Thumper2k1

    That&#39;s an awful design for Optimus. The like doing a new Batman movie and deciding to go with the Adam West bat-suit. Perfectly legitimate as it&#39;s part of Batman&#39;s history, but a damn stupid choice.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:08 a.m. CST

    I really should proof read. :(

    by Thumper2k1

  • July 12, 2006, 10:09 a.m. CST


    by PwnedByStallone

    Even though he was the best Decepticon because of his intellect and his tape minions, putting him in this movie would be stupid. In any form. Don&#39;t even try. You&#39;ll just end up alienating fans. concentrate on getting the other characters right. I haven&#39;t seen Prime in truck from because you cocksuckers took the picture off but if it&#39;s got flames? YOU FUCKED UP.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:10 a.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Uhh, that is a freightliner, you dumbass. And when Prime was a cabover, nobody knew the brand, but since most cabovers were macs at the time, we all just call Prime a mac truck.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:12 a.m. CST

    The Picture looked horrible...

    by NubtheSquirrel

    I have faith in Michael Bay and Mr. Spielberg. However, that truck looked awful. I am not happy by what they will be passing off as Optimus and the fact that there will be no thing at Comic Con this year is a bit disconcerting. Is it possible that this might be slated to fail? Is it just to have them say, "Well you wanted Transformers and we delivered but you all said it was horrible." I have high hopes for this movie but the picture I saw of the semi was very disappointing. I thought Spielberg was going to have a big hand in this and he is a hardcore Transformers geek. If this is true, the how is it that he can allow this to happen?

  • July 12, 2006, 10:12 a.m. CST

    back in the day

    by Henry Jones Jr.

    I don&#39;t know what all you kids are getting so excited about. I remember my kid brother wanting to watch transformers after school. I wouldn&#39;t let him however cuz I was in the TV room feeling up my girlfriend while she gave me a hand job. Get over the toys- get into some chickens!

  • July 12, 2006, 10:17 a.m. CST

    oops. Im the dumbass

    by moondoggy2u

    what I thought was a freightliner logo wasnt the logo at all--just some shine. Yeah, that looks like a peterbuilt logo

  • July 12, 2006, 10:19 a.m. CST


    by Mr Nice Gaius

    No offense...but you are taking this WAY too seriously.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Yeah, I remember feeling up your girlfriend, too, henry

    by moondoggy2u

  • July 12, 2006, 10:26 a.m. CST

    gaius--none taken

    by moondoggy2u

    What can i say, I&#39;m not a hardcore nut for the transformers, but I figure if you&#39;re gonna do a film of them, maybe it should follow the dynamic of the source material. Look, I hate catwoman and have no interest in the character, but I felt that if you were trying to do a film about it, maybe you should follow the source material at least a smidgen. Since it didnt, I and everybody else ridiculed it. To me, it just smacks of arrogance and contempt not to. Didnt a lot of people get pissed about Batman and Robin, Pearl Harbor, a few Star Trek films, and the botched McG Superman script for the same thing?

  • July 12, 2006, 10:27 a.m. CST

    A big "fuck you" to Transformerfan haters

    by Rant Breath

    I enjoy pussy. I also enjoy Transformers. It&#39;s possible to appreciate both you fucking close-minded, cum-stains. Transformers has the potentail to be the next Jurassic Park or Star Wars. You&#39;re telling me, a transformers fan to the death, to ignore that fact and accept mediocrity like the apathetic pile of stale shit you&#39;ve become? Fuck you. I actually enjoy having a fertile imagination mixed with cherished childhood memories. Watching a good movie can be even more rewarding than meaningless fucking. And if the movie happens to be one I&#39;ve dreaming of for 20 years it can be almost a religious experience IF it&#39;s executed properly. But I wouldn&#39;t expect someone who murdered their inner-child when they got their first taste of pussy to understand that. We care about this Transformers because we see something you don&#39;t. We appreciate aspects that you&#39;re dumb, blind and deaf to. Maybe one day you will see the light. Until then shut the fuck up and get the hell out of our way. Bitches.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Mikey Bay

    by Rant Breath

    If you fuck this up you&#39;ll be despised more than Joel Schumacher and PWSAnderson. Your name will be dragged in shit for decades relentlessly. No Transformerfan worth a shit will show you mercy for killing the franchise. Those fancy military jets and soldiers can&#39;t save you from the wrath of angry internet-savvy nerds who have had their dreams peed on and raped. A fair warning.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:39 a.m. CST

    A few things...

    by audi9891

    I&#39;m not really trying to defend Bay, BUT: 1) There&#39;s been talk on here about how crappy it is that Bumble Bee isn&#39;t a VW bug. Guess what? VW would not license the use of their car for the movie. Chevy jumped in and is using this as the launch pad for the new 2008 Camaro. 2) Look at: Generation 2 Optimus toy was black with red flames -and was the long nose cab truck. So, I&#39;m seriously not trying to defend Bay, but those are just the facts above. Personally, I would have chosen G1 Optimus over G2. But he apparently didn&#39;t pull the flamed version out of his ass.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:43 a.m. CST

    Optimus Video

    by Rybock

    A little late to the party, I missed the picture. Anyone have another URL (there is usually people who save these types of pics and put them on their own sites). A search found this at YouTube: which looks pretty decent for what I assume is a fan made film, though it doesn&#39;t seem to fit the look from the teaser. But for those of you sick of CGI, here&#39;s a 100% real transformer:

  • July 12, 2006, 10:45 a.m. CST

    looks terrible

    by BLWiseass

    There is simply no justification for giving Prime a paintjob containing friggin flames. Anybody who argues that this is "modernizing" the charachter is a retard. Flame paint jobs is much more of an 80&#39;s thing that a current thing. There is no modernization needed of the original Prime design. It would actually make more sense if Prime was deigned like the dated flat front semi because he is one of the older, wiser autobots. He isn&#39;t some arrogant punk redneck as his current paint scheme indicates. I understand the need to update many of the vehicles, but nothing needed to be changed on Prime. Leave him as a monochromatic flat fronted semi and A) it will look just fine and B) you won&#39;t piss off every kid who gre up watching transformers in the 80&#39;s.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:46 a.m. CST

    The key line in your response, moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...was your admission that "that&#39;s just the way [you] feel about it." If one were to read the rest of your post, one would assume you missed my very valid point about the truck design shown actually following quite closely an official G2 design for the Optimus Prime character. If that was the version of Prime Bay wanted to capture, he nailed it. You keep referring to Prime as if there is only one acceptable aesthetic for the design. Takara and Hasbro (as well as the makers of any of the post 1980s officially licensed cartoons) would beg to differ. The only thing that&#39;s remained consistent about Prime over the years is his character (which, depsite superninja&#39;s insistence, is not that of the stereotypical American western hero). He&#39;s a strong, compassionate, humanitarian leader. As long as Bay captures that, the fact that he looks like one of his truck incarnations (as opposed to a gorilla, for example) should be gravy. You&#39;re hung up on the original G1 design for the character, which really only lasted for a small portion of the property&#39;s entire lifespan. Granted, some of the toys (aimed specifically at the significantly smaller and less lucrative adult collector market) have gone back to that retro look, but the wider reaching line aimed at kids has a very cartoony looking super truck as Optimus these days (one that makes the Bay design look positively realistic and subdued), so you really ought to be grateful they didn&#39;t go with that. So, to sum up this very important portion of my argument, the truck we saw DOES, in fact, look like Prime as he appeared for a significant portion of Transformer history. There simply is no disputing that. What I can agree with you on is the idea that there&#39;s no good reason NOT to use Cullen&#39;s voice as Prime. As has been pointed out, virtually every cartoon incarnation has used Cullen or someone doing a Cullen impression. That voice has become far more iconic than the apperance of the character. However, that said, if they do decide to cast someone else, it isn&#39;t going to prevent me from keeping an open mind about the film until I see it (probably as a rental, because it&#39;s rare as hell that I get to the theater these days). I&#39;m really not even asking you to be that open minded about it anymore because, as you&#39;ve noted, your feelings on the matter are quite strong. I just want you to continue acknowledging that those feelings are based on your preferences, not a case of objective factual misinterpretation on Bay&#39;s part. There are many Transfans who think he&#39;s doing a pretty decent job so far and are quite excited to see this. I wouldn&#39;t count myself among their number yet, but I&#39;m certainly not hostile toward the production. I&#39;m just a longtime fan of the property (in most of its incarnations) who is content, at this stage, to wait and see.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:46 a.m. CST

    are you kidding, breath

    by moondoggy2u

    Bay is already lumped with joel schumacher. Anybody remember the Pearl Harbor fiasco? I&#39;ve never seen a film more chritically lambasted than that heap. I think Bay still has hurt feelings over Ebert called him out on the idiotic bomb shot not just because it was irreverent, crass, and emotionally shallow, but because also for its complete lack of reality (bombs arc from planes, not fall straight down). Then Bay, failing to realise that he was proving Ebert&#39;s smaller and ultimate point said,"But the bomb is heavy and so it wont arc. We&#39;ve thoroughly researched this aspect of the film for the full accuracy of the shot." (I&#39;m paraphrasing, but i believe Im pretty damn close to the actual quote). With that quote, Bay proved his lack of knoweledge reguarding momentum, and proved that the only thing he cares about in film is `splosions. Could you imagine a 9/11 film directed by michael Bay? Damn thing would probably be in 3D or something...

  • July 12, 2006, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Roland--I would normally agree with you

    by moondoggy2u

    save for one thing. Fans like you are not alienated by changes or depictions of Optimus Prime as he currently exists in cartoons and are certainly open-minded enough for Bay&#39;s vision. Now let me ask you this, if Bay had painted that truck in the classic style and depicted prime with something that closely resembled (as much as film alllows, anyway) the classic optimus, what would your reaction have been? I&#39;m guessing that you would either a)be even more hyped for the film or b)feel the exact same way you do now. You certainly would not be alienated however, right? Well, going that route would have immediately had people like me far more hyped and positive. So again, I ask you, why WOULDNT you go that route? Why WOULDNT Bay use that classic depiction?

  • July 12, 2006, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Phate, I watched the series on after the

    by superninja

    movie (because it was still tied to Prime) but I didn&#39;t watch Beast Wars, Card Captor TFs, any of that stuff.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:53 a.m. CST


    by Mr Nice Gaius

    I totally understand. Yet, I guess that&#39;s where I&#39;m also willing to give the movie a little creative license. Don&#39;t get me wrong, I&#39;m not exactly ecstatic over the flames. But I&#39;d be more concerned over what Prime looks like in his robot mode than anything else. That&#39;s where I think the true acknowledgement of the source material comes into play. As for Pearl Harbor, Star Trek, etc....remember what people thought of the Batmobile in "Batman Begins"? There was a lot of uncertainty until it was seen in action - the thing kicked ass. It&#39;s kind of a correlation but I hope you see what I&#39;m driving at.

  • July 12, 2006, 11 a.m. CST

    seriously though

    by isildur29

    what a huge spoiler... a truck! that picture of the truck clearly sums up exactly how the movie will be filmed and how it will perform at the box office....

  • July 12, 2006, 11 a.m. CST

    dishy dish

    by Lolthien

    the &#39;white&#39; optimus was Ultra Magnus

  • July 12, 2006, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Remember who this film is being marketed to

    by moondoggy2u

    Action/special effect audiences who dont care about the lesser amount of people that do (and I admit, we fans are much smaller than the general movie going audience). Well, the general audience doesnt give a shit if the optimus has a classic look or is new and has flames all over him. The fanbase, however, would be creaming if a more classic design was used. Again, if 75% of the audience doesnt care what design as long as they see robot action and 25% do care, then its very easy to please the very vocal 25% and the 75% can continue to enjoy the film in the EXACT SAME WAY THEY WOULD HAVE ANYWAY. Again, my approach, and damn near everyone&#39;s were they in charge, would be to throw the fans a classic design while still keeping it open enough for the general audience. Flames on a truck doesnt do anything to promote either negativity or "wow cool" responses among a general audience, but it does tend to piss off the fans. Do you see what I mean, Roland?

  • July 12, 2006, 11:07 a.m. CST

    sure I do, gaius

    by moondoggy2u

    and I totally agree that some creative license is allowed. My only problem is that at a certain point, there is such a thing as too much license; its all about balance. To me, it seems a no brainer (and I imagine most others do, too) to just make optimus a slightly more classic look; thus pleasing everybody. I think it all boils down to one thing: one act shows respect to others while the other act shows selfishness. Bay likes flames, fine, than he gets a flame prime. But it does show that he doesnt really care much about giving the audience what they want. And that kind of contempt for an audience really pisses me off as a fan, a movie going audience member, and as someone who enjoys entertaining others. Who is Bay entertaining, I wonder, and what does he think about the people that actually do care a lot about this franchise? I guess we&#39;ll know as time develops, but as you can imagine, I&#39;ve already got some theories and opinions;)

  • July 12, 2006, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Optimus in Robot form FOR REAL

    by Brendon

  • July 12, 2006, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Yackbacker, you and moondoggy are discounting...

    by Childe Roland

    ...the fact that G2 had fans as well. They aren&#39;t being as loud about their personal preferences (maybe because it appears that one of the biggest characters in the film will follow their preferred template and people don&#39;t tend to be as vocal when they&#39;re happy as when they&#39;re disappointed). The whole 25%/75% thing doesn&#39;t wash because there are more than two camps when it comes to Transfans and how Optimus should look (although there probably aren&#39;t 100 different camps, as I doubt every repaint of every mold has its own exclusive fanbase). You are right about one thing, though: he COULD HAVE been a firetruck. He COULD HAVE been an ape. He&#39;s not. He&#39;s a truck. You are uptight about the version of truck optimus we got int he movie. Let&#39;s just be clear on that. There is no one universally accepted and definitive version of Prime. That&#39;s your 80s cartoon nostalgia talking, and no one ever promised you this would be a faithful recreation of the 80s cartoon in live action and CGI. They said it was going to be a Transformer movie designed to make fans happy. They didn&#39;t specify G1 fans over G2. All the betrayal and disappointment you feel is just a side effect of realizing your way of seing things isn&#39;t objectively right or even the most popular way of seeing things. I know that&#39;s rough, but it&#39;s often reality.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Roland, if you want to say that it&#39;s just

    by superninja

    my impression that Optimus Prime is identified with John Wayne, have fun. If you think Superman didn&#39;t have "Truth, justice, and the American Way" as his tag line for years, more power to you. And I hope you enjoy your stay on Mars.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST

    I don&#39;t like it!!! DANG!!! Yack you win this round

    by modlight

    I have been a big promoter of this movie cause of my love for Michael Bay and my trust that he&#39;ll do this right. That being said. Optimus has to be flat-fronted. All things being equal though we can&#39;t blame Bay for this. I&#39;m sure that Hasbro and the studios have their hands deeeep into the design of these things and is truly responsible for this monstrosity.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Rodimus Prime...

    by Redrockmullet

    I happen to concur that this MAY well be Rodimus Prime, unless bay is in fact gong for the generation 2 look... I really don&#39;t know what to think. I want to think that going with the Gen 1 prime is such a no brainer that there&#39;s no WAY they could screw it up... but it is BAY and he&#39;s liable to screw anything up!

  • July 12, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Thanks, yackbacker. I&#39;m glad Im not alone

    by moondoggy2u

    in my reasoning. And you were absolutely right to bring up the star wars anamorphic transfers because that does correlate to our discussion, doesnt it? People were screaming and bitching because Lucas failed to actually show respect to his audience and allow an anamorphic transfer of his film. At first, i was like a lot naysayers who didnt give a shit about whether it was an anamorphic transfer or not, or whether the old films should be released or not, until it was explained to me by another talkbacker on a previous thread. It would have been so cheap and easy to have those films in an excellent transfer that would stand the test of time rather than a half-assed, slipshod product. The obviusly inferior product showed the original fans contempt and a complete lack of sympathy. I myself am a fan of the special editions, but I still consider it contemptable how Lucas treats the fans of his old editions. Again, if Lucas had treated both versions, no one would have bitched. Fans know when they are looked upon with contempt and when they are being respected. No, we dont always have to be catered to, and I think most of us realize this, but we shouldnt be treated as though we&#39;re the red-headed stepchild.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:20 a.m. CST


    by Brendon

    ...out of interest, would having an entirely new design actually be "screwing up"? Might the new designer not actually be better? Work better in the film?

  • July 12, 2006, 11:21 a.m. CST

    My fave version was the Powermaster one anyway...

    by UltimaRex

    Oh well.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:26 a.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    I have to concur with Yackbacker when i that you&#39;ll have a tough time convincing me that the fans are evenly divided over which version of Prime they like. It doesnt surprise me that on this site there are those that feel the classic prime really isnt the iconic image, but in the real world, I&#39;ve yet to meet anyone who felt any differently than Yackbacker and myself when it came to what image was THE BEST. Sure, there have been lots of images and versions (some good and some bad) but the classic version is the one that has withstood the test of time and has the most fan appreciation BY FAR. Its just that simple. Also, I want you to know that Im not trying to be snide or incendiary with you and wish to thank you for not turning this into a curse fest.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:27 a.m. CST is my answer to that one..

    by modlight

    I&#39;ll answer with an analogy that is easy to relate to. Star Wars Episode One.. Doug Chiang was responsible for much of the look of that and the other new movies. He&#39;s brilliant. The designs were brilliant. They weren&#39;t unfortunately anywhere close to what Star Wars had been. So all the fans had to get used to new deisgns and a new world before they could figure out what was going on plot wise. When dealing with a known brand, its not only easier, but a better plan to go with what people know. Change some of the ancillary characters, but the icons really should stay the same so that it is easier to bring the audience into the rest of this world that is being created for the first time with live action. Created by the talented genious that is Michael BAY!!!! YEEAEAAAHHHH (sorry couldn&#39;t help myself)

  • July 12, 2006, 11:29 a.m. CST

    yeah I misspelled genius...didn&#39;t say I was one

    by modlight

    but I am, just not at spelling.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:30 a.m. CST

    also, on a side note, I&#39;m going to have a rant.

    by moondoggy2u

    I&#39;m so sick of this "world leader" and "whatever you do, dont show U.S. pride" b.s. Why is it okay for other nations to show national pride but when the united states citizens actially feel pride in the ideals of their nation, all we are met with is "why dont you keep an open mind?" question. If Im supposed to be open minded to others patriotism then they had better be open-minded to my own ideals and love of country. Anyway, rant over.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:30 a.m. CST

    It is fun, superninja, poking holes...

    by Childe Roland the ethnocentric insecurities of people who have misinterpreted comic and cartoon characters, imagining them to be political symbols. Supes hasn&#39;t had "The American Way" in his vocabulary since the Donner film (and even there it was treated as a tongue-in-cheek holdover line from a time when the character was used to bolster the morale of a nation at war). He&#39;s definitely NOT Captain America (who, if you&#39;ve read his comics, hasn&#39;t always seen eye-to-eye with what passes for American values, either). And Prime could&#39;ve cared less what country any human was from. He was about protecting all of them from the conflict Megatron had brought to earth. And moondoggy, I have to ask: how is it that you AREN&#39;T being selfish when the reason you are railing against this movie is that it doesn&#39;t cater to your specific desires as a fan (as opposed to the specific desires of other fans who might prefer a different era from the long-lived Transformers franchise)? You&#39;re much smarter/more perceptive than that. Don&#39;t get merwrong, the character designs from G1 remain my favorite even if the execution of the figures blew goats (especially in comparison to the more recent Alternators incarnations, which reatin the basic looks and color schemes with far more "realistic" and better articulated end products), and the G1 cartoon will always hold a special place in my heart. But, honestly, it wasn&#39;t a very good show. The only characters depicted with any real depth or complexity were Prime, Megatron, Starscream and Bumblebee. Everyone else was pretty interchangeable (a point punctuated by the way the animated movie, in which the only Autobot death anyone can remember is Prime&#39;s). Beast Wars and its follow-ups were far superior stories with better animation, better plotting and much more character development. But that&#39;s just my opinion....and the opinion of the Transfan who first alerted me, several years ago, to the existence of a wide and rich world of Transformers beyond the 28-minute toy commercials that seem to have so influenced our childhoods.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:38 a.m. CST

    by otaku-spooge

    That guy who made a transformers cosplay out of a cardboard box and transformed would be preferable.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:39 a.m. CST

    oh yeah

    by otaku-spooge

    After this movie comes out it will suck to be that dude who changed his name to Optimus Prime.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:40 a.m. CST

    I can forgive the truck design if

    by Turd Furgusen

    they transfom Optimus into a cool as hell robot. I usually can look past design changes like in Superman Returns. However, don&#39;t mess with the basic plot of this movie. If Bay doesn&#39;t allow the Autobots to be the ultimate heroes of the movie I will be pissed. The coolest thing about the cartoon is that the Autobots on many occasions helped us weak "flesh creatures" out. Bay better not make us humans the winner in this battle for Earth, or there are going to be a lot of pissed of Geeks out there.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:41 a.m. CST

    A follow-on for moondoggy:

    by Childe Roland

    Thank you for being willing to discuss this civilly. It&#39;s funny, because that&#39;s actually how I know you genuinely don&#39;t know the larger Transfan community. They aren&#39;t a generally civil bunch. In fact, if you check out any of the larger Transformer fan boards, you&#39;ll find some very heated arguments over which version of Prime (and other characters is the best). They may well be the most cut-throat fan niche in all of geekdom (appropriate that this Optimus has flames, since flame wars over matters of opinion are even more common on Transfan boards than they are here). Trust me...they&#39;re out there. And a lot of them are nuts. You have to know that, while your opinion on G1 is certainly shared by a large contingent of those nostalgic for all things 80s (hell, I&#39;m in that group), the actual Transfans (not even the kids being mass-marketed to by the toy and movie makers) have a much wider lens through which they view the property and there are definitely factions that rival the G1ers in size and intensity. This movie is being made for them, as well. Even if you and every other die-hard, 80s-loving G1 fan boycotts it, I&#39;m betting it will do huge international business, particularly in Japan (whhich has far more Transfans, many of whom view the G1 mythos as a bastardization). That might explain why Bay&#39;s casting a wider net. And I really can&#39;t argue against his logic, much as I might personally prefer a red, blue and silver Mack truck version of Optimus.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:46 a.m. CST


    by reckni

    This talkback is becoming lame, even though bashing Michael Bay will never go out fashion.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Excellent point, Roland

    by moondoggy2u

    And I completely agree with you about the execution of the figures back then. Companies have really gotten great at toy manufacturing today, havent they? Anyway, the reason why I say Im not being selfish is that I&#39;m among the selfish majority. On a personal note, I happen to really enjoy the story lines of those cartoons AFTER prime died; they were written better and depicted aspects of war far greater than the previous programs. And I&#39;ll grant you, there&#39;s a whole honkin universe of ideas that extend beyond those idiotic toy commercials of the 80s. The thing I&#39;ve noticed, however, is that despite the new, better written stories, animation, and flashier character designs is that they tend to reinact and homage the classic characters. As you pointed out, everyone tries to do a Cullen impression when they act like prime. Optimus retains the helmet and usually the mask, and is more times than not a variation of red, blue, and white/grey. Even the best episodes of the beast wars cartoons was some time traveling plot in which you see the classic transformers in suspended animation in the space ship. Why all the nostalgia, Roland? Why all the interest in those characters? Why all the reverence? Because those characters and some of the finer plot points resonated with EVERYONE, captured the imagination of the most people, garnered the most success. What&#39;s the m ost traumatic moment for the children of the 80s? Prime dying. Not just any prime, either, because that has been depicted with other versions of prime for a very long time, but the classic prime as voiced by Cullen and in all his primary colored-glory. Sure, I could go into all the psychological and sociological reasons that Prime&#39;s primary colors, height, posture, and Cullen&#39;s voice added up to an iconic image and a shadow that the current transformers, even 20 years later, cannot escape, but I wont. Suffice it to say that that version is the most popular for a variety of reasons among fans. Sure, I like certain aspects better than other aspects in the transformer universe, but when it all comes down to it, there is a reason that character resonated most and I would put it to you that anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand the character, the story, or the fans.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:52 a.m. CST

    "PEARL HARBOUR sucked just a little bit more than...

    by wolack22


  • July 12, 2006, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Instead of bitching...

    by Alkohal

    Have any of you geeks thought about this possibly being Rodius but was mislabled as Optimus? because of people who dont know anything writing for websites that have people like you read them?

  • July 12, 2006, 11:56 a.m. CST

    A Prime Example of The Michael Bay Way!

    by Redbox

  • July 12, 2006, noon CST

    3 minutes of Bay&#39;s transformers on You Tube

    by jrclanto

  • July 12, 2006, 12:03 p.m. CST

    I think the 1st time I even heard the name Transformers

    by SilverChairman

    was about 3 years ago, but I just searched for "Optimus Prime" and found THIS: I WANT THIS! I don&#39;t give a shit if it&#39;s a blue truck or a red truck or a pink truck or whatever the fuck the issue is (is that a race thing?), but I want a robogorilla in this movie! Oh, yeah, and according to a website I&#39;ve read, this cartoon was JAPANESE, meaning that, as so often happens, you Americans whine about "your property" that was actually made 5000 km away from you (that is, thought up and created, not just manufactured, &#39;cause everything you buy in your stores is MADE 5000 km away from you anyway - in China) So if there&#39;s anybody that even has any right to talk about any "character design" of some goddamn truck, it&#39;s the people of Japan. And I&#39;ll bet that they don&#39;t give a crap.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:07 p.m. CST

    "Right now you guys are losing the fans. The more......

    by Dolmes

    ......secrettive you act, the more the fans think you&#39;re trying to hide a shitty movie." bullshit. Utter utter bullshit. Isn&#39;t there a tiny minute possibilty there&#39;s trying to keep it a secret so that the surprise, pop element isn&#39;t destroyed a year before release. Fucking hell. Sneak peek leaks suck egg shells.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:09 p.m. CST

    One more thing about "Transformers, the American icon!"

    by SilverChairman

    Apart from the issue of "the 100% American Transformers" being apparently 100% Japanese, why do you call yourselves Americans when you&#39;re not even exclusive North Americans, because so are Canadians and Mexicans? That&#39;s weird, keeping to refer to yourself after a continent rather than country. I&#39;d think that should only happen in Antarctica.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Is not even red!

    by fortheloveofgod

    Its black with flames and its the wrong type of truck too. How the fuck can you get that wrong Bay? How?

  • July 12, 2006, 12:15 p.m. CST

    I think we could agree on a lot more, moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...if you&#39;d stop using words luike "EVERYONE," "most people" and "the majority." As I pointed out, if you&#39;re talking strictly about an American audience of casual 80s nostalgia fans, you may well be right. But that&#39;s a very thin slice of the worldwide Transformer fanbase. Seriously, check out some of the sites (especially the message boards). You&#39;ll realize the relative scale of the groups we&#39;re talking about and understand why you can&#39;t possibly argue that even most Transformers fans (you need to remember how far reaching and diverse a franchise this has been for nearly three decades) would prefer Prime as a red, blue and silver/gray Mack truck. Most Transfans are in Japan, where Prime&#39;s enjoyed equal or greater popularity as both a lion and an elephant (Mastadon?). The movie&#39;s really not just being made for U.S. G1 fans, no matter how badly they (or you and I) may want it to be. But I&#39;m still holding outhope for Cullen as the voice. As for the G1 cartoon after the movie, I watched it but didn&#39;t enjoy it as much. By fast-forwarding to the future and losing a lot of the characters I&#39;d come to love (from their characterization in their toy filecards, which were better than they were played on TV), they kind of alienated me and made me feel too old to care about a bunch of transforming toy robots. I rediscovered the franchise later with the Beast Wars cartoon and was giddy happy when they came out with the Alternators line and Masterpiece versions of characters like Optimus and, soon, Starscream. Actually, Masterpiece Starscream is a great example of just how picky true G1 Transfans can be. From the initial concept art, leaked on the Internet months ago, fan interest was high and seemingly unanimously approving of the design. A redesign involving a very slight tweak (colors the same, head the same, robot mode essentially the same with some added flaps hanging down that made the jet mode that much more realistic) a fair number of purists went absolutely nuts. Seriously, the designs were so close you might have suspected the flaps were just removable accessories ont he robot, but people talked like someone had added a dick and balls to the toy. And the funniest part was, the toy was designed to reflect the aesthetics of the G1 cartoon, which was inconsistent and hardly detailed at all in its depiction of most characters (especially after the initial mini-series, when the animators started taking shortcuts). It&#39;s a fickle fanbase and there&#39;s really no telling what&#39;s going to piss them off. And that&#39;s just the english speaking G1 cartoon fans, who represent a pretty small portion of the global fanbase for the entire franchise. It&#39;s that larger, even more potentially fickle and unpredictable fanbase that this movie is hoping to suck in along with the millions of kiddies who will demand that their parents drag them to any movie with giant robots smashing the crap out of each other. With this perspective, Bay&#39;s job becomes far more difficult than you paint it to be and his accomplishments thus far become more remarkable. That&#39;s all I&#39;m saying.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:20 p.m. CST

    I don&#39;t care if they change how they look.

    by zooch

    please save us alot of bitching and get over it right now. The robots will look awesome in CGI. We should not worried about that, we should be more worried about Michael Bay. We should be more worried about things that are in all Michael Bay movies: horribly cliched story, awful dialogue, incredibly pointless action, shaky bad camera work, choppy editing on the action scenes, one-dimensional characters (Will Bay even stay true to the characters of Prime, Megatron, Starscream or even :gasp: add depth to them?)

  • July 12, 2006, 12:21 p.m. CST


    by NightArrows

    This line is fucking gold QUOTE: "Thank god Bay doesn&#39;t cater to your moronic attachments to such stupid details" END QUOTE Yeah, because we all know how bad The Island, Pearl Harbor, and the rest of his films would have been with fan interference (see me rolling my fucking eyes?). GO FUCK thyself and choke off to all his cinematic shits, you grape juggling dirty starfish.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:21 p.m. CST

    I don&#39;t care if they change how they look.

    by zooch

    please save us alot of bitching and get over it right now. The robots will look awesome in CGI. We should not worried about that, we should be more worried about Michael Bay. We should be more worried about things that are in all Michael Bay movies: horribly cliched story, awful dialogue, incredibly pointless action, shaky bad camera work, choppy editing on the action scenes, one-dimensional characters (Will Bay even stay true to the characters of Prime, Megatron, Starscream or even :gasp: add more depth to them?)

  • July 12, 2006, 12:21 p.m. CST

    I don&#39;t care if they change how they look.

    by zooch

    please save us alot of bitching and get over it right now. The robots will look awesome in CGI. We should not worried about that, we should be more worried about Michael Bay. We should be more worried about things that are in all Michael Bay movies: horribly cliched story, awful dialogue, incredibly pointless action, shaky bad camera work, choppy editing on the action scenes, one-dimensional characters (Will Bay even stay true to the characters of Prime, Megatron, Starscream or even :gasp: add more depth to them?)

  • July 12, 2006, 12:23 p.m. CST

    I don&#39;t care if it&#39;s different...

    by zbbrox

    ...but does it have to be so fucking ugly?

  • July 12, 2006, 12:26 p.m. CST

    That is probably a fake picture anyways.

    by Thumper2k1

    No autobot symbol on in. And it looks similar to this truck I found at a truck show website.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Is it possible.....

    by Wintermuteprime

    What if their script calls for Prime to have been &#39;Modified&#39; (read as: Bastardized) in the same way that Bumblebee was? BBee got bought up and fixed by some guy (who obviously didn&#39;t know he was repairing a living robot as he completely overhauled it into a kickass pussy machine)... So is it unlikely to think that maybe Prime got bought out of some junkyard by a random tribe of rednecks who jacked him up and give him flames and spinners and nitrous? *sigh* *slaughters self* Starscream better kick mucho ass-o.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:31 p.m. CST

    I just want to point something out ....

    by modlight This was on this site a while ago from the last Comic con. Take a look at the front of that truck. Looks pretty old school to me, almost like they knew what they were doing even back then. Michael Bay knows what he is doing. This Flame pic is not Optimus.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Good lord, Childe...

    by Mr Nice Gaius should have written this movie! ;)

  • July 12, 2006, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Too bad Paramount & Bay. The pictures everywhere now!

    by Orionsangels

    and there&#39;s absolutly nothing you can do about it. How does that make you feel? I love the Internet!

  • July 12, 2006, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Gaius...

    by Childe Roland

    ...because I really need even more guys like superninja and yackbacker to hate me. ;) Seriously, I don&#39;t envy the position Bay&#39;s in at all (I know Transfans who make Star Wars fans seem perfectly reasonable and open minded), but I sure would&#39;ve loved the opportunity to bring my favortie versions of my favorite characters to the big screen. One of the first things I&#39;d have done is set the first 10 or 15 minutes on Cybertron, showing the characters in their alien vehicle and robot modes. That way it would been less jarring for folks to find the characters adopting vehicle modes that aren&#39;t lockstep with the 80s cartoon (an impossibility for licesnsing reasons alone) once they get to earth. I haven&#39;t read the script that&#39;s circulated online, though, so maybe Bay had the same idea. If not, I&#39;m still curious to see what he does to introduce these very alien and inherently silly (if you think about them too hard) life forms.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:48 p.m. CST

    QUINT!! wheres the cullens voice boycott website?

    by syco

    about 2 or 3 yrs ago i signed an online petition to have cullen be the voice of optimus in this movie. i believe i was # 7. does anyone know how to get back to that website? GOD i hope thats a picture of rodimus/hot rod.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Hey Yackbacker...

    by Ricky Henderson

    I&#39;m back! (its me, Methuselah, reborn from the Lazarus pit). "Julio Franco Lives!" wouldn&#39;t fit as a talkback name. Dammit.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:49 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    The problem is, Roland, what is said and done on the net seems to almost always be waaayyy off course from what happens in real life. In real life, I&#39;ve yet to meet anyone who didnt think of optimus prime as a red mack truck. I&#39;m sure people are aware there are other versions, but the red truck seems to be the image everyone remembers when talking about the transformers. I understand that your reasoning leads you to more than understanding about any incarnation of a character, but I remain somewhat dubious since various writers at various times do all kinds of weird, cooky stuff with franchises. In fact, I&#39;m willing to wager that were you to do a google check on Optimus Prime photos, you&#39;ll find a clear majority depicting the old 80s cartoon version of optimus. Remember, I could apply the same sort of reasoning you use with bay&#39;s film to McG&#39;s version of Superman, Shumacher&#39;s version of Batman and Robin, Halley&#39;s version of catwoman, and a whole slew of others. Remember, were I to make a movie showing an electrically charged blue-suited supes, I would be following cannon, but I would not be faithful to the overall character. And I dont care what you say, Superman does stand for truth, justice, and the american way. He wasnt raised in russia, he wasnt raised in france or britain, but in a Kansas farm in the middle of the united states of america. Just cause different versions have depicted him in various ways doesnt matter a hill of beans to the fact that supes&#39; image remains american. The united states isnt a bad thing, and citizen of the u.s. crap aside, supes always believed himself to be human, a kansas small town guy, and an american.

  • July 12, 2006, 12:57 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Your points are valid, yes this design is true to the G2 Prime. And yes, I&#39;m more than aware there&#39;s a section of T-Fandom that wholly embraces this version over everything else. However, it&#39;s not the best choice for the movie for one reason: it&#39;s not the most recognizable. Which Prime toys have consistently made the most money? Those based off the original G1 Prime. Hell, the secondary market for G1 Prime is insane, with people now in their late 20s scoping out eBay looking to get their hands on the Prime toy they always wanted as a kid. Prime has been remade 3x in his original form since Transformers kind of died off. Hasbro&#39;s even releasing a Classics toy line this fall aimed specifically at the older fans, as well as the kids who prefer the original: Many people argue: "heck, be happy they&#39;re making a Transformers movie" or "there&#39;s no reason they should cater to the fans". I disagree. Why can&#39;t they make a blockbuster film, that&#39;ll gross millions of dollars, and still have a design that the fans embrace? The reverse is true here: do you really think that the wide film audience will really be turned off from a movie just because one of the main characters is a flatnosed truck painted red and blue? Doubtful. Many people ALSO seem unable to realize just HOW MANY people recognize Optimus Prime as a flatnose! It&#39;s not just Transformers fans: the image of Prime has been captured as a part of pop culture and people recognize it. At a video store I once worked at we once put The Movie on ( mostly to see it on a huge TV ) and EVERYONE who walked into the store knew what it was and could name characters. That, right there, is an example of just how big a pop culture icon Transformers has become over the years. Anyway, failing everything else, Transformers fans at least have this to look forward to:

  • July 12, 2006, 1:02 p.m. CST

    That truck will transform into a giant flaming gimp

    by Ricky Henderson

    And by gimp, I don&#39;t mean limping robot.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:03 p.m. CST

    I think

    by Dr. Opticus

    the original O.P. looked pretty gay; all red, white and blue. Why couldnt it look like a real truck?

  • July 12, 2006, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Superman&#39;s a whole different can of beans, moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...and there are plenty of talkbacks where we can discuss him (I only brought him up in response to superninja). Suffice it to say, he&#39;s actually Canadian if you go by the lineage of his creator (and has been depicted as raised in Russia in the Elseworlds book "Red Son," which is quite an interesting read). The comparison between him and Prime is silly, though, because Prime never claimed to stand for the American way. People in the U.S. read that into him because they wanted to. Not that that&#39;s a bad thing (again, part of catharsis), but believing a thing doesn;t make it necessarily so and you can bet that the Japanese creators of Prime had no intention of his being a symbol of the supriority of American philosophy, politics or culture. Which, again, brings me to your insistence that everyone sees Prime the way you do. Have you been to Japan? Do you travel outside the U.S. regularly and talk Prime or Transformers in general with most of the folks you meet? Come to think of it, do you discuss (offline) those subjects with anyone you don&#39;t know pretty well and who comes from a similar cultural background as you? I&#39;m not trying to be glib, just illustrating that your sample, which you use to support your assertion that 80s G1 Prime is the definitive and most widely accepted version of the character, is hardly representative of a wide or even random audience. Of course the people you talk Transformers with in person agree with you. If they didn&#39;t, you probably wouldn&#39;t be talking to them about it. The online community, representing a much wider and diverse portion of the fanbase, paints a far more accurate picture of global perceptions than your "everyone I&#39;ve met" demographic. Sorry, it&#39;s just true. You don&#39;t have to like it, but you aren&#39;t, in fact, speaking for the majority of Transformers fans.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:03 p.m. CST

    All the geeks were Talkback fighting...

    by finky089

    Those posts came fast as lightning. It was a little bit frightening, they spent the whole day griping. There was Moondoggy2u and Mr. Nice Gaius. They were talking flicks up, they were shooting Bay down. It

  • July 12, 2006, 1:05 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Exactly! Superman is an American symbol, and was always intended as such. It&#39;s such a big deal, in fact, that DC put out two Elseworlds books postulating what would happen if Supes had been raised in another country: Superman True Brit and Superman: Red Son, where Supes was a Brit and Russia. In both books his core values are different based on the places he was raised. Superman&#39;s character reflects the fact that he was raised in the American midwest, and has always had a traditional American mindset. Heck, DC&#39;s been doing everything it can to return Superman ( and all other major DC characters ) to those roots for the last year!

  • July 12, 2006, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Prime Meaning

    by Redbox

    Prime isn&#39;t a showboat with cheesy paint flames and chrome! He&#39;s a gruff honest truck! I hope this isn&#39;t really him. I really do. Only one version of Prime was based on a real truck and not a spacetruck or Japanese Robotech Truck, the G1 red Mack flat nose. Why would anyone change that? It is Iconic. There are a few picture over at that remind me what Prime should look like!

  • July 12, 2006, 1:11 p.m. CST

    And for the record,

    by finky089

    the movie will be whatever it ends up being ("good" or "bad"). But rarely are things so black and white. I don&#39;t like the things I&#39;ve seen and read about this production so far, but that doesn&#39;t mean the movie will be "bad". The fact is, a major studio is making a big budget film to MAKE MONEY. They&#39;re using a property with name recognition because it helps market the movie and sell tickets. Even though a couple of thousand people bitch about thigns they don&#39;t like on a website, that&#39;s not going to stop the majority of everyone else from paying to see this movie- or so the studio hopes.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Not sure where you&#39;re getting your figures...

    by Childe Roland

    ...for toy sales, Thenedain, as I know Hasbro and Takara don&#39;t break those down by product line for outsiders, let alone by individual character or model, but if I were making an educated guess I&#39;d say that the vast majority of TF toys have been bought in Japan over the last 30 years and that the minority of Optimus Prime transformers released over there in that time have actually followed the G1 design aesthetics. In fact, most of the red and blue truck versions of Optimus released in the U.S. since G1 have had elongated noses (with only the reissue and the Masterpiece versions being completely flat nosed). Even that Classics version has a longer snout on it. Further, I&#39;d venture to guess that your comment that Transformers "kind of died off" indicates you&#39;ve really only been paying attention to the U.S. versions of the characters, and then only up through G1 and again when they reissued those characters recently. There&#39;s a whole lot of Transformer history and commerce thatt happened between the 80s and 2000, some of it right in our own backyard, that you&#39;re ignoring in your attempts to paint an inaccurate picture.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:21 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Not at all! I&#39;m very well steeped in Transformers history, thank you, having been buying T-toys since the 80s, from Action Masters to todays Alternators, including Beast Wars, Beast Machines, World&#39;s Smallest, etc, etc. I do realize that the Japanese market is different from the US, and I am pointedly ignoring it. The fact is that Bay&#39;s Transformers is a US movie, being made by a US company, and is going to worry first and foremost about it&#39;s US fan base. My point with the G1 Optimus is that if it isn&#39;t such a popular design, why the heck is it still being reissued? Yeah, the Classics version has a longer snout, but it&#39;s still very recognizable as the G1 Prime. And in the US, Transformers DID die off shortly after Action Masters and G2, which a span of at least 3-4 years between them and the next iteration. The only US Transformers product at that time was the Marvel Comic, which continued for about a year after the toylines in the US ended. And again, I&#39;m purposely ignoring everything outside the US, for the reasons I stated previously. While I&#39;m sure most Transformers fans are well aware of everything that&#39;s come since G1, I seriously doubt that Michael Bay and the suits in Hollywood would give two shits about anything that wasn&#39;t shown in the US. That simple.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Never said I was speaking for the majoirty, roland

    by moondoggy2u

    I am saying, however, that most of my opinion is part of the majority. If you think Cullen&#39;s interpretation (along with the coincidence of prime&#39;s colors resembling the flag) are not in anyway john wayneish or having to do with americana, then you are very much mistaken and I wish you luck in convincing everybody else from that generation to think differently. I grant you that there is a whole heap of world filled with various pepple out there, but consider the following: the film is being made in america, filmed in american english, staring american actors, possess mostly american brands of vehicles, and thus is an american production. A similar argument could be made that pizza, hamburgers, french fries, and sausage sandwiches originated from outside of america, but when one thinks of american food, inevitably, the majority seem to think of burgers, hot dogs, pizza, fries, and soft-drinks. Things get co-opted, roland, and any character that does a john wayne-impression and flies the red, white, and blue is going to be thought of as american. Especially when the majority of the movie-going audience, and thus, the movie-going fans, will be american, its not too much of a stretch to consider a character american. Same goes with supes, by the way. To say that George Reeves and Chris Reeve werent trying to be american icons is ludicrous. Guilt by association, roland, guilt by association.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Word, Moondoggy2u

    by Thenedain

    Couldn&#39;t have said it better myself.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Thenedain, considering The Island only made its

    by modlight

    money back due to the foreign market I have a feeling Michael Bay gives at least one shit about the rest of the world.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:31 p.m. CST

    taking the Godzilla &#39;98 route

    by dopepope

    and keeping the name, and not a thing more. Let&#39;s take an icon and piss on it.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:32 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    with a production as big as transformers, he&#39;d better care about the domestic audience. Its that kind of thinking that is giving Brian Singer heartburn as we speak.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Does anyone remember...

    by DarthStallion

    the cartoon episode (Gen 1) where Spike is teaching the Autobots some Earth games. Optimus Prime is shown dribbling a basketball and says in his best John Wayne voice "Look out, everyone! I&#39;m going for a lay out!" Classic stuff. Now Bay is putting flames on him and fucking with my childhood. Thanks Dipshit. Can&#39;t wait for "Pearl Harbor 2: The Battle of Midway".

  • July 12, 2006, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Modlight continued

    by moondoggy2u

    Besides, Bay didnt break even. His movie costed 125 million bucks and needed to make twice that to break even. The internation audience only paid 115 or 130 mil while the domestic gave His Hackness 35 mil. At best, he earned a little over 160 mil worldwide for a film that needed to growss 250 to make get out of the red.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:36 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

  • July 12, 2006, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Projective and faulty logic...

    by Childe Roland

    ...from both you and Thenedain, moondoggy. First off, Transformers is a Japanese franchise, primarily. The U.S. market is a secondary one. So ignoring the rest of the world&#39;s perception of what the franchise is or should be all about is simply narrow minded and ethnocentric (par for the course in today&#39;s America, I&#39;ll grant you). The film may be made in the U.S. (as opposed to the cartoon, which was animated in Japan), but if you think the film makers aren&#39;t going for global appeal, you&#39;re deluding yourself. Cullen may have been doing a John Wayne impression for Optimus, but Cullen wasn&#39;t the voice of Optimus everyehwere (he&#39;s just been the template for all U.S. voice acting for the character). Again, there&#39;s a big wide world outside of the U.S. and, since the character was imported, it&#39;s faulty logic to assume he was created to be an American icon (by that logic, any artists or writer&#39;s interpretation of Superman should be considered as iconinc and valid as Cullen the voice actor&#39;s perception of Prime and the way he should talk) or to suggest that he&#39;s been rightfully co-opted. You&#39;ve simply projected what you want the chaaracter to stand for onto the template, which is no more inherently American than the French flag (which is also red, white and blue, in case you hadn&#39;t noticed). There really isn&#39;t anything more I can give you than the understanding that you are coming at this movie from an extremely narrow frame of reference and a perspective clouded by both nostalgia and political motivation. Since you&#39;ve copped to all of that, we&#39;ll just have to agree to disagree about what the "right" way to look at Prime is. All I know is, you&#39;re far more likely to be disappointed when the film comes out and that has nothing to do with me being easily pleased or willing to accept whatever Bay decides to throw at us. I simply have a greater appreciation for the bigger picture and the complexities that arise from it. If the movie sucks or Bay gets the characters wrong (in characterization), I&#39;ll be the first to call him on the carpet. Until then, what he&#39;s shown so far earns him the benefit of the doubt.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:37 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Sure, he&#39;ll look at the world audience, and take a big dump on them knowing that most of the world will watch nearly anything put out by the US. Damn, some of the worst films in the history of US cinema still posted decent worldwide numbers. Sadly, US audiences tend not to give a flying F about anything not made in Hollywood, which is why foreign films either bomb in the US, or end up being remade within a year. Not true? Take a look a Japan&#39;s horror films of late for an example. And Moondoggy&#39;s right again: if a movie tanks domestically it&#39;s a bad sign. American movies audiences are used to having shit handed to them on a platter: if the domestic audience doesn&#39;t produce, there&#39;s a problem. And I&#39;m saying that having *liked* Superman Returns!

  • July 12, 2006, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Darth-I doubt Bay is even aware of the battle of midway

    by moondoggy2u

    Judging by his Pearl Harbor flick, i think he is only recently aware that WW2 occurred and that anything even remotely interesting (which, in his view would be `splosions) occurred before the year of his birth.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:40 p.m. CST

    He definitely cares about the Domestic Audience...

    by modlight

    Ever see Armageddon? Not American enough for you? What I&#39;m saying is that like it or not, this will be movie by commitee. Bay alone can&#39;t screw it up like people say Singer did to Superman. I think Superman is having problems because people can&#39;t accept that kind of character anymore not because of the direction. Regardless. Hasbro, Dreamworks, Paramount, Spielberg, whatever Fast food restaurant gets the liscencing contrate et all are making this with Bay. They are all going to look at what will sell the best and go that route. And since Hasbro has taken the Beloved G1 story and slowly turned it into Beast Wars and Armada and whatever the fuck else its become I don&#39;t think its fair to blame Bay for any "POSSIBLE" Character designs. But as I posted above check out that link from the Comic Con last year. They knew then what Prime looked like and I have a feeling they still do. Don&#39;t hang anyone yet.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:42 p.m. CST


    by Movietool

    Are flames worth getting upset over? Transformers were without a doubt THE TOY from my childhood. When the first Transformers miniseries cartoon came on - I was so excited I could barely contain myself. Why am I not pissed off that the Transformers movie will have little to do with those memories? Did the Star Wars prequel debacle just lower my expectations so much that my inner child won&#39;t ALLOW myself to get set up for dissapointment? Whatever the reason, I still think this could be a cool movie.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Not a question of it being American enough...

    by Thenedain

    Armageddon was a crapfest. Miniguns on the lander?! Give me a break. And Beast Wars was a great story, Modlight, you just had to sit down and watch it through. Ended up having way more to do with classic G1 Transformers than most people believed. At this point I&#39;m totally ambivalent: I trust Spielburg more than Bay, and trust that his &#39;committee&#39; as you put it will keep him on the right path. However, I&#39;m also well aware that there are directors out there who get their &#39;vision&#39; and refuse to budge from it, only to see their films go down in flames. I&#39;m hoping for the best, but preparing myself for another Batman and Robin...

  • July 12, 2006, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Yes Pearl HArbor Sucked... So did 1941

    by modlight

    but we don&#39;t judge Spielberg on that, let it go people. And as for foreign BO being better with our "shit" movies... Most people feel that many foreign films are better than what we make here, bitch when they get remade, but then wonder why our "shit films" do well over there. Maybe Americans are morons sometimes and films like Superman and the Island are better than we like to give them credit for... and oh yeah Prints and PRess budget being added into the budget of movies now seems to only be done by the press when the movie looks like it might flop. Its real money, but bullshit numbers to dump on the director.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Off topic: Brian Singer, white Colombian powder, and SR

    by JackPumpkinhead

    So I guess this is part of the reason why Superman Returns blows so badly?

  • July 12, 2006, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Roland, have you been to Japan?

    by moondoggy2u

    Because I have and I can tell you without a doubt that Japan is the most ethnocentric nation I&#39;ve encountered (not that that is necessarily a bad thing, mind you) and I have been to many more countries than you might think and almost certainly more than you. Believe me when I tell you that EVERY country possesses natural/cultural pride to one degree or another, but Japan takes it to a much more intense, racially oriented level. Again, that isnt very different from some other countries, I&#39;ll grant you, but it is on a scale far higher than the United States. In any case, as I stated earlier, if the property is so popular in Japan, then they can make a film of their own IN JAPAN. This is an american film, like it or not, and is catered to our american dollars. Sure, half of the film&#39;s returns will come from an international audience, but 50% of the revenue or more will come from a single country: this one. Like it or not, that means well over half the audience is american and will be watching an entirely american production. And your feelings about the united states (whatever they may be) not withstanding, the core majority are familiar with its lead character being a cybernetic john wayne with red, white, and blue. You can close your eyes and stubbornly hold to your view all you want, but the fact is, for the majority of this film&#39;s audience, production, and depictions, its an american film.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:52 p.m. CST

    I did watch Beast Wars, and I did like it...

    by modlight

    But what if a pic leaked from this movie where PRime was a fuckin Gorilla. People wouldn&#39;t be saying... hrmmm they&#39;re staying true to the storyline of where the Transformers were at the beginning. No they&#39;d be furious he wasn&#39;t a truck, and Hasbro knows that, as well as knowing that he needs to be a G1 truck because thats what people know. This flame truck is Rodimus or some other shit, or Optimus in Disguise after being ingured or something. And Armageddon makes me cry every damn time I see it so BITE YOUR TOUNGE!!! EVEN THE HORRIBLE SCENES WITH AFFLACK HIT YOU IF YOU WATCH IT ENOUGH!!! They&#39;re heros. Bruce has no idea he won&#39;t make it back, that poor heroic SOB.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:52 p.m. CST


    by zbbrox

    The toy and cartoon market for Transformers is primarily Japanese, but the Japanese are far bigger on cartoons and action figures than us anyway. We&#39;re talking about a US movie--and the US goes to see US-made movies nealry as much as the rest of the world put together. They don&#39;t want to put out another movie that performs like The Island did. Honestly, this truck here is going to fuck with ticket sales. It really is. It&#39;s far less recognizable, which hurts the (fairly substantial, I believe) crowd of people who&#39;d see it for pure 80s nostalgia. But more importantly, it looks *bad*. It&#39;s ugly, genuinely ugly. It looks silly, like it&#39;s trying *way* too hard. Being seen as really silly is going to be poison for a movie like this. They&#39;ve already got to struggle against so much stigma, this is going to make it that much easier for people to write it off. But worst of all, I think, it looks like everything wrong with Michael Bay movies. It looks like it&#39;s just WAITING to explode. It looks like it&#39;s trying so hard to be cool that no one thought to point out how stupid it was. It looks like the kind of thing only a dorky teenager doodling in his notebook at school could love. In short, this sucks, and I hope to GOD it looks better when it fucking transforms.

  • July 12, 2006, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Sorry, it ain&#39;t Rodimus...

    by Thenedain

    If so, why would they have two big ass trucks in one movie? They&#39;d realize that the average American moviegoer is indeed a fucking moron and wouldn&#39;t be able to tell the two apart. Optimus in disguise? Damn, I hope so. And yeah, Armaggeddon makes me cry too, I could have actually spent my money on something useful...

  • July 12, 2006, 1:58 p.m. CST

    leave it to Z.B. to cut to the heart of the matter

    by moondoggy2u

    Because american icon or not, G1 or G2, that flame-covered monstrosity is pretty fucking ugly and whoever wants that thing to be the lead in their movie must suffer from a major case of Down Syndrome!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:02 p.m. CST

    So what, one car, one truck, one plane one tank?

    by modlight

    American audiences can&#39;t handle more than one? wtf dude. If the movie has Scorpinok in it then I&#39;m sure its gonna be chock full of characters. And by something more useful you must mean the Criterion DVD of Armageddon. I cried too when I realized that I wasted my money on something less than the full Bay.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Good call, Yack! Good point about Convoy, too

    by moondoggy2u

    Shows you how much of an american film we&#39;re talking about when we arent even mentioning the name convoy, or Super God mega convoy or whatever the hell they call it in Japan. American film means americanism okay in my book.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Why does this thing smell like catwoman!?

    by Dokkalvar


  • July 12, 2006, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Wiki now says may have been a hoax.

    by McGsStepson

    So now there is some hope left, a very small amount of hope - about the same amount of hope there was for Lloyd Christmas to hook up with Mary Swanson. But what I&#39;m saying is that you have a chance!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:04 p.m. CST

    zb.brox - 80s Nostalgia

    by Thenedain

    That&#39;s the whole point of why they&#39;ve finally decided to cash in on a Transformers movie: 80s Nostalgia. It&#39;s hip, and it&#39;s a cash crop waiting to be harvested, hence why movies like Miami Vice are being made and why T-Shirts featuring the old Nintendo Konami code sell like hot cakes to the masses. It&#39;s why you can find kids who&#39;ve never heard AC/DC running around with AC/DC shirts and hats. The American people are infatuated with the 80s right now, like they were with the 70s and 60s before that. So that&#39;s the big question: you&#39;re making a film to cash in on a 80s Icon, perhaps the biggest 80s Cartoon Icon. Why do you change shit? The whole "loving the 80s" thing is seen as almost a guilty pleasure by most people anyway, so saying " a red and blue truck would be silly" just doesn&#39;t cut it. Hollywood loves to take classic American fare ( and yeah, I&#39;m calling Transformers, a Japanese cartoon, American fare. Deal with it. ) and &#39;reimagine&#39; it, discarding the face that the shit was popular at one time for a damned reason. I guaran-damn-tee that in 30 years if someone decides to remake Star Wars, casts Luke as a Austrailian guy fighting a purple costumed Darth Vader, our descendents will be bitching on a virtual internet site just like we are right now.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Prime certainly isn&#39;t japanese

    by moondoggy2u

    Because try as hard as I might, I can&#39;t recall seeing one damn 18 wheeler in the streets of Tokyo. So at best, CONVOY/Prime is either from the US, New Zealand, Australia, a few european countries, or in North and South America. Oh well.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Yack!! brilliant, but could it be Soundwave

    by modlight

    serenading them in BoomBox form as Starscream tries to let go of Megatron in his Gun form before they go off to make the best movie ever with one of the best possible directors for it... I mean go to battle

  • July 12, 2006, 2:10 p.m. CST

    thenedain, I could already see it now:

    by moondoggy2u

    Luke Skywalker isn&#39;t american! He&#39;s a citizen of tatooine (eyerolls everywhere)! Besides, Harrison Ford was only a flag waving imperialist since he starred in Air Force One (much gnashing of teegh). We need to make him international and not "ethnocentric." Of course, that little "citizen of the world" speech will only apply to people within the U.S. Every other country will be allowed to pin their flags on the back of Darth Vader&#39;s cape, but thats what being open-minded is all about, right?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Moondoggy2u... no 18 wheeler in Tokyo?

    by modlight

    Have you never seen Black Rain and all the crazy-ass lit up trucks they have over there? They look like flippin transformers already. yeah they definitely don&#39;t have a grasp on the cool 18 wheeler.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Criterion DVD of Armageddon

    by Thenedain

    ROFL... damn dude, you made me shoot Dew out my nose. I&#39;ve got no retort to that, that&#39;s funny shit. Much <3. Back to TF, though, I can fucking tell one truck from another, and you can tell one truck from another Modlight, and I&#39;m sure Yackbacker, Childe Roland and Moondoggy2U can too. The average American movie going public? Hell no! Dude, while waiting in line to see Superman Returns there were a group of people all excited because they were going to be able to see Superman fight his archnemesis Batman. I shit you not. Hell, I remember way back when during the preproduction on X-Men 1 that one of the reasons they chose not to use Beast was that he was too close to Wolverine and people might get confused. WTF?! Lowest Common Denominator, man, Lowest Common Denominator....

  • July 12, 2006, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Why does he have to be American again?

    by modlight

    I thought Prime was 100% grade A Cybertron. Cut him and he bleeds Energon.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Luke Skywalker isn&#39;t american!

    by Thenedain

    ROFL... umm... no... of course not. Whatever was I thinking?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:14 p.m. CST

    whomever voices Prime, we can all agree on one thing:

    by moondoggy2u

    Since the original voice of Starscream is dead, they need to hire the next best thing: Axl Rose! Since his career has really been taking off since he quit GnR, he should be just fine with doing voicework. Besides, that will play right back into the whole 80s nostolgia vibe this film so desperately needs.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:17 p.m. CST

    re; Axl Rose

    by Thenedain

    As much as it frightens me to admit it, it might actually work. Someone not too long ago suggested using Ben Stein to voice Soundwave and I wanted to gouge their eyes out. Axl Rose, yeah, I can see that. Plus, it&#39;d mean Starscream could belt out Welcome to the Jungle, which could only rule.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:18 p.m. CST

    hey modlight

    by moondoggy2u

    you probably arent familiar with trucking, so I understand what you think I mean. I&#39;m not talking about japan having a lack of semi trucks, but literal 18 wheeler tractor/trailer combos arent driven in japan--they&#39;re 16 at most, usually only 10 to 12 and NEVER bigger than 12 in the cities--they simply cant turn or pivot through their streets and freeways. Its a bit difficult to explain, so just trust me--unless they have something in their airports that I dont know about, they don&#39;t actually use 18 wheeler truck/trailer combinations as you see them here in the states.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Thenedain... Any country that can distinguish between

    by modlight

    Shania Twain and Faith Hill, will know their trucks if nothing else. Are you serious about the Supes Batman thing? I hate to admit it, and my girlfriend says she was joking, but I&#39;m suspect that when we were buying the tix for supes at the little machines at the Grove here she pushed the button for Nacho Libre by accident, because I believe she thought it was Supes due to the Red Cape. Lucky for her she&#39;s good looking. But Superman Batman... we can dream... And as much as I liked Superman, thats a movie that Nolan needs to handle.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:21 p.m. CST

    thenedain--its scary, isnt it?

    by moondoggy2u

    His voice is actually very close to the classic starscream voice, isnt it? And of course, like you said, he could get some real 80&#39;s soundtracks involved with the production. Course, that would mean that Bay would have to think out of the box, but Axl Rose is indeed a perfect choice.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:23 p.m. CST

    see Thenedian? Look how much Moon knows about

    by modlight

    trucks... The rest of the country can&#39;t be that far behind. And thanks for the lesson moon. I see what you mean. They&#39;re still some badass trucks

  • July 12, 2006, 2:23 p.m. CST

    modlight and moondoggy--

    by zbbrox

    A more important point raised by that link is this: check out how ugly those trucks aren&#39;t. Take one of them, paint it red and blue (hell, red with navy blue for all I care), and imagine how badass Prime could look without Bay pissing in our cheerios here.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:26 p.m. CST

    lol, ZB

    by moondoggy2u

    I actually kinda/sorta understand the theory behind not using a cabover--its too small and would cause the arms to be really thin due to NO quarter fenders being on a mac. If you used one with a nose, you could get rougly the same robot shape as Prime and make it a bit more believable--you know, since his arms would be a part of the nose. All geek speak aside, a new paint job is needed no matter how you slice it.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:26 p.m. CST

    ZB, Moon, Then... et all, I still say this flame trucks

    by modlight

    a fake. If its real I&#39;m jumping over to your side on this issue in a Cybertron second.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:27 p.m. CST

    My Theory, sorry if it has been already mentioined

    by SamBlackChvrch21

    This is a lengthy talkback. From what I read between script reviews and that real informative interview with Michael Bay at his offices, my theory is this. Most of this is based upon what is read in that specific interview and from the Vehicle Images that leaked online awhile ago as well as the Optimus Image from this morning. An opening scene that Bay told the interviewer has a man in the arctic fall into the palm of a gigantic robotic hand that is frozen in the ice. He clears away frost to reveal a Decepticon logo on the chest of a giant robot frozen in the ice. I believe that in a battle on Mars the autobots caught up with the Decepticons and they duked it out. The Decepticons were getting their asses janded to them so they retreated in the process Megatron was damaged and (either Starscream dumped him or he fell to) ended up on earth in the arctic and eventuallly froze in the ice. In the meantime the Autobots are aware that the Decepticons are on earth looking to recover Megatron and travel here to seek out them out. In the process the Transformers are dormant in their vehicle forms being re-painted and remodified (explaining Optimus&#39; fiery paint job and Bumblebee getting the upgrade to a 70&#39;s Camaro looking body frame to a new 2007 model) I know this theory is vauge and kind of a stretch. But its a shred of hope for the original fans looking to see a more familiar concept on the big screen next summer.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:28 p.m. CST

    no problem modlight

    by moondoggy2u

    My only excuse for that obscure bit of knowledge is that I used to drive those things for a couple of years to pay for college and I used to be in the military and am kinda/sorta well-traveled.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Modlight: Supes/Batman

    by Thenedain

    Totally serious man. I wanted to weep for the future right there. Wait... there&#39;s a difference between Faith Hill and Shania Twain besides their cup sizes? I hadn&#39;t noticed... Now, a Nolan handled Superman/Batman film, when it gets made, is something I can totally agree with. The guy just seems to &#39;get&#39; it in a way that Singer ( as much as I like him for the most part ) just doesn&#39;t. Don&#39;t know why, just a vibe I get from their films. And this might have nothing to do with Transformers, but Nolan, if you&#39;re reading this, please, please, please make the next Batman a detective story. I mean, he&#39;s called the World&#39;s Greatest Detective for a freakin&#39; reason. I mean a good old fashioned mystery too, where the audience is as in the dark as the hero is. If there&#39;s one thing Superman Returns, Batman Begins and Spiderman all did right it&#39;s show that a superhero movie doesn&#39;t just have to be about big effects sequences and fight scenes. Plot is good.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:30 p.m. CST

    On the US(D is for dense)A Prime argument...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I&#39;ve been trying to avoid injecting politics into my end of this ddiscussion and strongly discouraging others from doing so (because I think talking politics on a movie board, especially while discussing a movie about a toy line, is a pretty stupid fucking idea). That hasn&#39;t worked, though. So I&#39;m forced to lay this out in what I&#39;m sure will be viewed as a condescending fashion. Anyone arguing that Prime (or whatever you call the lead truck in the film, because Optimus Prime sure isn&#39;t American English according to my years of Latin) is distinctly American because he is red white and blue is seeing what they want to see. As I&#39;ve already pointed out, France flies a red, white and blue banner (I&#39;m seeing them all over my Midwestern American town with Bastille Days coming up) and Britain does as well. The colors aren&#39;t internationally trademarked. And, if they were, wouldn&#39;t that make Starscream American as well? Why don&#39;t I see anyone rushing to claim the cowardly, opportunistic robot who transforms into a U.S. military jet as a symbol of his nation? Oh, yeah...the John Wayne voice. That&#39;s right. But it seems to me I&#39;ve heard that voice coming from any number of decidedly non-American cultural icons over the years. Leon (a French assassin no less) aped it in "The Professional" (which contained a number of G1 Transformer cartoon scenes -- how&#39;s that for relevance?) but I&#39;m pretty sure that wasn&#39;t intended to make Leon out to be a symbol of American culture. Hell, the Duke himself used his trademark drawl in his portrayal of Genghis Khan. Are you inferring that John Wayne himself intended the nomadic Mongolian warlord to be representative of American ideals and principles (&#39;cause I assure you, he wasn&#39;t)? You&#39;re trying too hard to inject your politics into your fantasy entertainment and it&#39;s straining the credibility of both. If you really want to talk real-world politics as applicable in the Transformers G1 cartoon, things might not turn out to your liking, what with the Decepticons exercising their right of military might to invade a foreign land in search of fuel and being confounded by enemies, some non-native to that land, who hide amongst civilian vehicles between their hit and run oppositional forays (would that make the Autobots terrorists or insurgents, guys?). At least the majority of G1 decepticon warriors had the decency to assume the forms of military jets (American military jets, no less). So just let it go, guys. It&#39;s an indefensible position.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Yackbacker....

    by Ricky Henderson

    I got banned, thus losing the best TB name ever. I have no idea what precipitated the banhammer coming down upon me, none at all. The same thing happened to me in an Indiana Jones talkback a few months ago... Bah. Anyways, Transformers is screwed beyond repair at this point. I would have settled for even a FADED red, but no... we get black with red flames instead. Lovely. Bay is supposed to like all things red white and blue, what gives?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Cybertron Seconds and new paint jobs

    by Thenedain

    Yeah, at the least it needs a new paint scheme, the good old traditional G1 Prime. And I&#39;m holding you to that, Modlight: if it&#39;s the real deal, I&#39;ll have your place in the picket line saved for you. Oh... and Anchorite: that&#39;s some seriously fucked up shit, dude. I like it!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Plot is good, but it hurts BO like a mofo recently

    by modlight

    Supes and Batman should&#39;ve made much more money for their quality. I know a lot of people hated it, but The Island was Bay&#39;s most plotfilled movie and look what that made. X3 vs X2, The Incredibles vs Shreck 2 I can go on, but I don&#39;t need to.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Hey!!! I said on this issue! I&#39;m still a Bay fan

    by modlight

    and no matter what director got this movie, I still would&#39;ve left half my brain at the door and breathed through my mouth for 2 hours as robots punched eachother. But it better be a flat front truck.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Wait, maybe thats the truck Prime turns INTO later....

    by Ricky Henderson

    I&#39;ll explain. Remember when the transformers first crash to earth and a probe gets sent out to take pictures of what earth machines look like? Maybe this is the truck BEFORE prime adopts its shape... Thoughts? Am I giving Bay way too much credit?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:39 p.m. CST

    ahh, roland. why am i not shocked at your attitude?

    by moondoggy2u

    I&#39;m not even going to argue with you about it, either, but let me say this: John wayne is a horrible actor. However, like it or not, he is a part of americana. Now, were I to do an impression of him, mimicking his speech patterns and slapping that impression on a robot whose primary colors are red, white/grey, and blue, gives a lot of orders, and is an old-fashioned type of hero, what do you think american audiences are going to think? In fact, if international audiences watched the american version of transformers, and understood the context of the voices, they would label that version as AMERICAN--end of story.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:39 p.m. CST

    cease and desist letters...

    by ILK

    Instead of asking to just take down the image(s) at least once, first is bad form and bad karma. Screw the whole production if they can&#39;t keep the legal department on a leash. One more story about crap like that and I&#39;m telling everyone I know not to even give the movie a chance. And I have direct access to about 45,000 people. So it&#39;s not just close friends. If it were me, Quint.. Harry.. everyone.. I&#39;d just stop covering the thing until they clean up their act. Here&#39;s an example of their current karma...

  • July 12, 2006, 2:40 p.m. CST

    You people have no clue!

    by Angelus_420

    Who cares if Prime is a flat nosed truck or not. He&#39;s gone through a lot of different changes over the years (In Beast Wars he was a fricken Gorilla!) as long as when he transforms he looks like Prime that&#39;s all that matters. The whole who are bitching and crying about him not being a flat nosed truck and call themselves purest are just a bunch of posers trying to latch on to the band wagon that is Transformers. SHUT UP LOSERS YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU&#39;RE TALKING ABOUT!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Genghis Kahn IS American

    by Thenedain

    Hey, from where I stand it looks like Genghis Kahn did in fact have American principles in mind. And for the record, using an example of John Wayne as Genghis Kahn is a mistake because EVERYONE realizes that John Wayne ain&#39;t fucking Genghis Kahn. Using a reference from a bad fucking casting choice to justify a bad fucking design scheme DOES make sense however. I&#39;m not even going to argue politics or whether or not Optimus Prime was represented to American audiences as a American Hero. You want that answer, call the producers for the US version of Transformers. I give it a pretty damned good chance that they&#39;ll tell you that they used the voice and voice mannerisms they did to appeal directly to the US audience. Besides, it&#39;s a wellknown fact that the US Transformers episodes were cut from the original Japanese episodes to better fit with the story the American producers wanted to tell. And there is no way you cannot tell me that Transformers became as successful a property as it did solely off the Japanese fanbase. If it wasn&#39;t for the American toybuyers/TV watchers, we wouldn&#39;t be having this discussion. Transformers would have become the next fucking Crystarr or Robotix: a short lived toy based cartoon franchise that died when it&#39;s sales died off, not a pop culture icon.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:43 p.m. CST

    ILK--how do you have direct acess to 45,000 people?

    by Ricky Henderson

    Seriously, how does one acquire that particular power? Do you work as the PA guy at sporting events? I want direct access to 45,000 people dammit....

  • July 12, 2006, 2:44 p.m. CST

    And moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...that 16 v. 18 wheels argument is pretty amusing. Out of curiosity, how many wheels did your G1 Optimus Prime toy have? Hint - unless it was a rare-as-hell variant, it wasn&#39;t 18. As for Japan, yep, been there. And you&#39;re right about their ethnocentricity, but that wasn&#39;t what we were discussing, was it? We were talking about yours and how Bay apparently doesn&#39;t share it when it comes to Prime. I think my argument above about why red, white and blue+John Wayne doesn&#39;t necessarily=American is pretty self explanatory. And the supplemental argument comparing the Autobots and Decepticons to real world factions at war should give a guy like you some pause. Seriously, just admit that your opinion is just that and stop trying to justify it by claiming anyone and everyone who is a true Transformer fan and/or American must share it. If you could do that, I&#39;d be much more inclined to respect the opinion itself. You aren&#39;t scoring any points here for obstinacy.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:45 p.m. CST

    and if you think

    by moondoggy2u

    that the 99% of american audiences never identified that character as John Wayne-esque and loved that character on the basis of those traits/designs, then I guess there really is no point in further discussion.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:45 p.m. CST


    by zbbrox

    X3&#39;s opening was largely due to X2&#39;s success--X3 struggled hard to even double its opening. Same goes for Shrek--and the Matrix Reloaded--and Austin Powers 2. When a movie is an unexpected smash hit, its sequel ALWAYS does well, even if it sucks. And the fact is, X2 was a much better value for money than X3, because it made very bearly as much (215 to 230) and cost about half as much. I think people still want to see movies that have plots and likable characters, and I think that&#39;s born out by the fact that in recent years longer, more complicated movies have been tearing up the box office.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Is Michael Bay, Spielberg&#39;s apprentice?

    by AlwaysThere

    I&#39;ve been hearing these rumors on the internets.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:46 p.m. CST

    I think we can all agree on one thing...

    by modlight

    Michael Bay is the King of Entertainment. THATS LUNCH!!!!

  • July 12, 2006, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Interesting points, Childe.

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Money Quote: "If you really want to talk real-world politics as applicable in the Transformers G1 cartoon, things might not turn out to your liking, what with the Decepticons exercising their right of military might to invade a foreign land in search of fuel and being confounded by enemies, some non-native to that land, who hide amongst civilian vehicles between their hit and run oppositional forays (would that make the Autobots terrorists or insurgents, guys?)." -- For some reason, I would halfway expect that to be hinted at in the film considering the post-9/11-everthing-is-a-political/social-commentary world we live in. No one said the Transformers couldn&#39;t have some intelligence and relevancy amongst the &#39;splosions.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:48 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    That&#39;s something I can agree with.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:49 p.m. CST

    uhh, rolande

    by moondoggy2u

    If I&#39;ve led you to believe that Im stating that ALL fans have felt a certain way or MUST feel similarly, then thats my mistake. I&#39;m merely saying that my opinion is largely the majority opinion reguarding the american audience/fans. And as Ive been saying, while my opinion is not unequivocal, it is of the majority; just take a look at ANY poll reguarding optimus for confirmation. I mean, I respect your opinion, but it is far from the majority of american movie goers who are fans of the show.

  • July 12, 2006, 2:54 p.m. CST

    by the way, concerning 18 wheelers, rolande

    by moondoggy2u

    Just how many did you count on the show? Cause every time I tried counting I came up with 18. And like you said, those toys didnt have but 14 and or 10, but they&#39;re supposed to represent 18 wheeler-type truck bodies. you know how I know that? Because trucks that are 10 wheelers, 14 wheelers, and 16 wheelers have entirely different configurations than that of the toy. I could get into a long, drawn-out dissertation of what type of truck chasis and trailer boxes have what amount of wheels, but just trust me, Prime design is that of an 18 wheeler, not any other type of truck (save for perhaps fictional). Toy designers, rather than spending the extra dollar, put half the amount of wheels that would proportionately be required. Really geeky, huh?

  • July 12, 2006, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Thanks, MNG.

    by Childe Roland

    Seemed rather obvious to me, but then I guess it&#39;s easy to be blinded to the obvious by the red, white and blue. Just ask the French. ;)

  • July 12, 2006, 3:03 p.m. CST

    I know...

    by DarthStallion

    that we&#39;re all getting into the discussion on race, religion, political motivations, etc. but let&#39;s get back to the story at hand, The Transformers... Another cartoon episode I was reminded of today (and yes this has relevance to the discussion) was one when Optimus and several of the Autobots painted themselves up like the Stunticons to spy on Megatron? And then when they got busted, they even managed to merge into Menasor? My point of that little reminiscing moment is that there doesn&#39;t need to be one car, one truck, one plane, one tank...everyone could handle more than one of something, so why not put MotorMaster in this? Evil trucks rule! Remember the Green Goblin truck from Maximum Overdrive? Or when Goliath kicked the shit out of K.I.T.T. on Knight Rider? Classic stuff. Oh and even if a person knew nothing about the Transformers before, how cool would six construction vehicles merging into Devastator be? Come on, Bay! Satisfy the geek in all of us! Make it happen!

  • July 12, 2006, 3:03 p.m. CST

    You know, its interesting

    by moondoggy2u

    but I can recall a time or two on a transformers episode, even in the movie, in which our intrepid heros stopped an elitist group&#39;s strangle-hold over the local populace. Of course, said elitist group also provided a danger to our heroes, so perhaps it could be argued they acted selfishly in regaurds to stamping out the tyrants. Then again, when one uses broad enough strokes, all paintings look alike. When one has the courage to get into details and examine minute strokes individually and on a stroke-by stroke basis within the larger picture and canvas will one truly become better able to judge a painting. Till then, perhaps crayons are best...

  • July 12, 2006, 3:05 p.m. CST

    But ive always found critics do best

    by moondoggy2u

    when they leave the painting to others.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:06 p.m. CST

    well, maybe not Do their best, but are certainly more..

    by moondoggy2u

    vocal and scathing.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:09 p.m. CST

    You know...

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    ...all this bitching about staying true to source material, canon, and so forth...has anybody wondered what would happen if Bay killed off Prime in this movie? Now, that would be true to canon, no? Do it, Bay. Do it. (I&#39;m kidding of course...)

  • July 12, 2006, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Yack, should that surprise you?

    by moondoggy2u

    The moment americana or americanism is mentioned, the forces of "open-mindedness" and "tolerance" are quick to silence any possible discussion, let alone argument.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Moondoggy, your insistence that most...

    by Childe Roland

    ...Americans who are fans of the cartoon must feel the way you do makes you seem pretty insecure in your argument. It&#39;s fine to feel the way you do. But when you start throwing unprovable stats in to back your position, I&#39;m obliged to call you on it. That just the way I roll. I do respect that you feel strongly about what you do. I also happen to disagree and believe there&#39;s a way to do so without maliciously trying to undermine your opposition&#39;s credibility (why my US(D)A Prime post was so distasteful to me). But you&#39;re like a dog with a bone when you insist that you speak for a majority of anyone without proof. The irony here is that I tend to agree that a G1 style Prime would be much cooler and, personally, more acceptable to me. My six-year-old nephew, who owns more Transformers than I ever did, would staunchly disagree if you could get him to look away from that insipid Armada or Energon cartoon he&#39;s got hours of stored up on DVR. Even the American audience is far more divided on this issue than you understand. Just because all those kids aren&#39;t responding to polls or spouting off on Web sites doesn&#39;t mean they aren&#39;t going to emotionally blackmail their parents into taking them to see this thing...perhaps multiple times. Remember Fantastic Four? Older fans hated it. Kids made it a studio success. Domestically. Imagine what kids and the international market will do for this if it&#39;s even halfway decent? And ont he wheels thing, again, I only brought it up to illustrate the inherent inconsistencies in the franchise (and because you had brought it up). The toys didn&#39;t have 18 wheels. Cartoon prime&#39;s wheels were pretty uncountable (due to the lack of attentuion to detail the animators were famous for in those post mini/pre-movie toons), yet you&#39;re being a stickler over the number of wheels Prime has in YOUR interpretation of the character and using that as though it&#39;s some sort of official differentiator when Hasbro didn&#39;t think it was important and Takara clearly had no intention of putting 18 wheels on the original toy. Another example of how believing something strongly, even being convinced of it, doesn&#39;t make it fact. Seriously, that&#39;s all I&#39;m advocating here...that we stick to facts we can verify and prove when making assertions about why this movie might objectively suck. Everything else is a matter of personal opinion.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Gaius, it wouldnt surprise me in the least

    by moondoggy2u

    if prime took a big dirt nap in Bay&#39;s transformer trilogy ;) The man is nothing if not repetitive.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Its like having Superman with blonde hair....

    by fortheloveofgod

    Totally wrong.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Transformers is originally a Japanese franchise, true.

    by superninja

    But when they produced it for an American audience, of course they gave the robots personalities geared to that audience, had them speak English, phraseology, etc. so people could relate to them. That is simply good marketing. US Optimus Prime = John Wayne. That is not simply me imposing my values on the character. There is no real Cybertronian culture. It is a mirror held up to our own cultures, particularly that which the writers of the American cartoon choose to reflect. It&#39;s all just a big allegory about war. After TF the movie, and in the comics, they did explore broader themes, for sure.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Thanks to Roland...

    by DarthStallion

    I just figured out the big closing of the movie...Megatron and Prime are having the fight to the death, A wekened Megatron knocks down Prime and says "It&#39;s over, Prime..." OP transforms to (red, white and blue) semi then runs over Megatron killing him. OP then transforms, plasma rifle in hand, looking at the corpse of Megatron, and says "That&#39;s how I roll..." $150 million domestic...

  • July 12, 2006, 3:15 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    The fact is that no matter how you splice it, the majority of american fandom and the movie going public at large are able to immediately identify prime as a red 18-wheeler cabover. To say anything differently would be disingenuous.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Which of your questions/challenges haven&#39;t I...

    by Childe Roland

    ...answered, Yackbacker? I re-read your post and believe I covered all of the bases there. If there&#39;s a question or challenge you&#39;d like answered more thoroughly, repost it and I promise to give a Yackbakcer exclusive answer. I don&#39;t deal in straw men. Ever. Others brought up the "Optimus Prime is undoubtedly American" argument and I simply refuted it using point-for-point logic and additional illustrations from the real world. Sorry if that confused you.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:20 p.m. CST

    And moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...while your paints/crayons analogy was colorful, it has no teeth without specific examples. Your vague recollections really lend it no credence and certainly do not put you in any position to condescend my understanding of episodes I haven&#39;t even mentioned, let alone discussed. Name them and we can, m&#39;kay?

  • July 12, 2006, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Thank you, superninja

    by moondoggy2u

    Thats the thing that Roland doesn&#39;t seem to understand. We are all aware that transformers differed with each and every culture; we know that prime was john wayne in america and who knows what in japan. But since the majority of this american movie&#39;s audience will be americans, just what do you think the american fans will expect? Even you, roland, would prefer to have cullen. Even you admit that the wayne impression would be the superior product, to your mind. Well, to those that dont care, it doesnt matter, but to those who do, it does. Pretty simple math for Bay, I should expect--please your fanbase, which, in this case, is an american group of nostalgic adults and kids who dont care so long as they get their robot fantasies. Anything else from bay reflects purely bad business sense that reflects either ignorance or contempt.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:22 p.m. CST

    And again, moondoggy...

    by Childe Roland

    ...if you&#39;re going to use words like "most" in trying to lend weight to your opinions, please back them up with some sort of concrete evidence. I feel like I&#39;m teaching an elementary logic/debate course here.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:22 p.m. CST

    sure, rolande. Transformers the movie

    by moondoggy2u

    The Quintisons (however there spelled) were overthrown by their slaves thanks to the interference of the autobots.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Roland, I think you are being unfair and making a

    by superninja

    mountain out of a molehill. I watch Japanese cartoons. They have a COMPLETELY different cultural sensibility than American cartoons. There is no mistaking that Prime in the US cartoon is American. A Japanese person would know this in 2 seconds. If the Japanese were making a TF movie, I would expect a completely different sensibility.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Yacko and Moonie

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Damn, you lads are definitely hampering my cautious optimism for this film. I really don&#39;t have much more to say about the subject other than I&#39;m going to wait for something substantial from the studio before I build it up/tear it down. I like Quint&#39;s "challenge". I&#39;m in line with that and will remain hopeful that this film could turn out to be more than meets the eye...

  • July 12, 2006, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Roland, prove that "most" do not.

    by superninja

    You can&#39;t. You have no concrete evidence. Shall we try to have a discussion that actually addresses the issue instead of sticking to supposed "facts" which are not even relevant to the discussion? Unless you do TF polling and stats for a living. If so, I apologize.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:29 p.m. CST

    And superninja...

    by Childe Roland

    ...if you read my posts, you&#39;ll understand (and moondoggy may understand) I have no trouble grasping the concept that you, he, yackbacker and a fair number of the nostalgic 80s kids (myself included) on this board would be pleased as punch to have an 80s-style g1 Prime that sounded like Cullen doing a John Wayne impression. My point is and has always been, that&#39;s not the only valid interpretation of the character and, if Bay&#39;s looking at the worldwide audience, I can understand why he might risk alienating a fairly small number of crotchety adult American nostalgists if he thought he could add the international gross of, say, the Japanese fanbase (which ensured that Transformers never "kind of died") to the guaranteed kiddie gross and those of you who, despite your protests, will see this movie anyway. What&#39;s so elusive about that concept?

  • July 12, 2006, 3:30 p.m. CST

    concerning logic

    by moondoggy2u

    Rolande, what part dont you understand? Check out the polls that are taken at nearly every transformers fan site. Clearly, Optimus prime as he&#39;s depicted in the eighties cartoons has a clear majority for their favorite depiction of the character. And concerning my paint analogy, thats my not-too subtle way of saying that the terminology you use to compare the autobots to iraqi terrorists is EXTREMELY simplistic and without detail of any kind (hence my suggestion to stick to crayons). In other words, broad analogies can be made by either side for any message; the devil&#39;s in the details, as they say. And if you&#39;d like a logics discourse for that FACT, I can suggest a few down the hall, next to the philosophy class. I would strenuously emphasise, however, a few history courses first. Those are in my part of the building, of course, and you are welcome to drop by at any time.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:32 p.m. CST

    re: Prime and John Wayne

    by modlight

    you guys are reaching. I won&#39;t dispute similarites, but come on. I was like fuckin 8 when this stuff was on. I was definitely not saying... "Hey Optimus Prime sounds a lot like John Wayne, star of many American Classics and Cultural icon to many of my fellow americans. I wonder if this is a comment on his place in today&#39;s society and possibly is there more going on here than I realize in the subtext? More than meets the eye you might say?" No I looked at him and said. Man, that is cool, he turns into a truck and I hope he beats the Decepticons and if you guys are hoping for more than that from this movie, no matter how good or bad it is, you&#39;re going to be seriously dissapointed.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:33 p.m. CST

    of course, i would love to have an edit function

    by moondoggy2u

    I believe I&#39;m genuinely the hands-down winner of the "most spelling errors made by a teacher" award. It depresses me on a daily basis. Of course, if this site had a friggin&#39; edit button, I wouldnt have to proudly hang my head in shame.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Since when has logic or the scientific method...

    by Childe Roland

    ...ever been about proving that something "does not," superninja? When you introduce an assertion based on a statistic, you&#39;d better be able to back it. If someone challenges, the burden of proof is on you. Go ask a scientist (or even a lawyer). I&#39;ll wait.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:35 p.m. CST

    I understand what you are saying.

    by superninja

    What I am saying, is that it&#39;s a mistake, just like it was with Superman Returns. That&#39;s all. People like Superman internationally because of his characterization, which includes him being a big &#39;ol American boyscout. How does one internationalize such a character anyway? Truly? The Japanese TFs totally have their own vibe. The fact is, they really can&#39;t. So just create new characters and stop trying to trick your audience into thinking you&#39;re honoring the past. If you are suggesting that filmmakers are worried about overtly American attitudes in films, I think that is understimating the international audience&#39;s ability to realise Superman and Optimus Prime are not really Bush. I find that rather condescending in its own way.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Using the word "most" does not mean

    by superninja

    you have a statistic handy, Roland, and you know it. All you are doing is just stalling the discussion.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:37 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    What really used to bug me was his color scheme. I had often wondered if the reason he had primary colors was because he was Optimus PRIME. Yeah, I realize that he had a completely different name in japan, but its an interesting coincidence that his name is Optimus Prime, is, of course, the perfect leader, and has primary colors. Then, when you added the john wayne mannerisms, it just became too much--you simply had to like the big guy.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Seriously, anchorite, just mind your own business...

    by Childe Roland

    ...unless you really want my atteention. You aren&#39;t adding anything to what&#39;s been an invigorating discussion (except that you, apparently, also believe anything red, white and blue is inherently me a star on Prime anywhere and I&#39;ll trade it to you for an ounce of credence). My comparison to the Iraq situation SHOULD embarass you. ESPECIALLY you, who have mindlessly supported that unsupportable conflict from jump. But, like I said, I didn&#39;t want this discussion to be about politics. They brought it up. I would&#39;ve had to have gone out of my way NOT to point out the obvious flaws in their logic. Just like I&#39;m going to have to go out of my way not to waste my time with you. Because you always make it so damned tempting...

  • July 12, 2006, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Prime may be Dutch too. My lady is and she always

    by modlight

    points out that they are red white and blue as well at which point I point out that their national color is orange so they have a pointless and unoriginal flag. Where was I going? Oh yeah Optimus Prime wants to legalize drugs and prostitution in America.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Saying "most" most certainly implies...

    by Childe Roland

    ...that one has done some straw polling, at the very least. Idf so, I&#39;d be genuinely curious to see the data. Otherwise, saying "most folks agree with me" is an unsupportable, out-of-ass statement. And how, exactly am I stalling discussion, superninja? Seems to me I&#39;m keeping it moving speedily along.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Now we have to do straw polls? I give up.

    by superninja

  • July 12, 2006, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Thank you, anchorite.

    by moondoggy2u

    I&#39;m glad that you brought up the possibility that Japan intentionally created a product that would better sell in the us market. Americana is not a bad thing. Furthermore, concerning the supes quote that Rolande eluded to, the full context is of course, "I stand for truth, justice, and the american way." "You&#39;ll end up fighting every politician in the country!" Now, as Rolande didn&#39;t hestitate to point out, this statement is ironic. No, not that Superman is out of place, as it rolande seemed to insinuate, but that the american way, the way that we the people of the united states of america subscribe to, is not actually dependent or always represented by its politicians. Again, the larger context is that just because a government official, or group of said officials, does something bad or wrong does not take away the ideal, the goal, the culture. To lump the two together is simply painting too broadly. Lat time I rant--I promise.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:46 p.m. CST

    I liked the Autobot that transformed into a clipboard!

    by Ricky Henderson

    That one was my favorite! The infecticons were pretty nifty too!

  • July 12, 2006, 3:49 p.m. CST

    I agree with you, moondoggy. Well said.

    by superninja

  • July 12, 2006, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Check again, anchorite.

    by Childe Roland

    I dealt with your comments regarding the Transformers movie. I refuse to do another ridiculous dance with you where you accuse me of being unpatriotic for not supporting the war in Iraq until it all comes down to the U.S>&#39;s foreign policy in the Middle East and our attitude toward Israel again. You shouldn&#39;t want to go through it again, either, because you always wind up agreeing to disagree after I point out for everyone&#39;s amusement how you don&#39;t actually argue with what I&#39;m saying but rather what you&#39;d like me to say. Your calling me any sort of straw man is the height of idiocy. Especially you. Now go get your shine box and stop trying to hump my leg for attention.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Anchorite, those actually were the rumored

    by superninja

    colors to begin with.

  • July 12, 2006, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Rolande, I&#39;m sorry, but that dog won&#39;t hunt

    by moondoggy2u

    Youre the one who brought up american foreign policy under a single US president when it had nothing to do with american culture or idealism. Now that you&#39;re being called out for it, for your obviously prejudiced, woefully innacurate, and frankly insulting remark, you desire now to "stay on the issue." How hyppocritical and so very typical of your type of your elitist and prejudicial attitudes.

  • July 12, 2006, 4 p.m. CST

    Anchorite and UN colors

    by moondoggy2u

    Frankly, I think that Baye will use exactly that; prime is wearing a blue helmet, after all.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Superninja, how do you know those were the rumors?

    by moondoggy2u

    Did you take a poll? Are you sure those rumors were exhibited my a majority? How am I to know you arent lying? Remember, you should thoroughly research and document every statement you make, double and even triple citing your work. Why? Well, cause I dont want my poorly conceived and inaccurate blanket statements to be debated, thats why;)

  • July 12, 2006, 4:08 p.m. CST

    moondoggy, you&#39;re the only dog in the room...

    by Childe Roland

    ...and you&#39;re clearly hunting. I stated in the very post where I drew the loose Iraq analogy AS A WARNING AGAINST INJECTING POLITICS INTO FANTASY ENTERTAINMENT (go back and check both the post and your facts, teacher) that I thought the imposing of an American political agenda on the Transformers was a bad idea. I used the illustration to show why, just as I used the France/Britain/Genghis Khan examples to show how Prime&#39;s color scheme and speech pattern could be interpreted in a number of ways. You guys should watch out for the Big Bad Wolf with all the straw you&#39;re using to try and build a likeness of me. The posts are still there and they speak for themselves. Your arguments, for all your fallacial tactics (let&#39;s add the old ad hominem to those as of your last post) are doing nothing to gain you or your position any credibility.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:13 p.m. CST


    by misterWINKIE

    Some people on here posted some links...but if you dig through some sites even further you can find more pics...even pics of the set I think Quint might of been on a while ago filmed in New Mexico... Part of these were filmed at Hoover Dam here in NV where I live...this looks like Hoover Dam...(plus where the car chase happens as well) Also here are some other shot of cars.."to punish and enslave" ...?? haha Check the photo set to the right to see more. Also go to YouTube and do a search on "Transformers" and you can see the video of what appears to be early TF footage.. Half way thru the footage and at the end you see stuff *possibly* linked to the movie...? Enjoy

  • July 12, 2006, 4:13 p.m. CST

    A true patriot has the fucking balls...

    by Childe Roland question his elected officials and their policies, as well as the capacity to understand that governments are capable of both "good" and "Evil," regardless of intent. And a smart man would paint his fucking house and patch that driveway instead of wasting his energy flipping off his neighbors for being embarrassed by the appearance of his home and the neighborhood they share. Think on that, anchorite. Would you rather defend the problem or be part of the solution?

  • July 12, 2006, 4:15 p.m. CST


    by misterWINKIE

    Forgot to note...even at Youtube...check the right side coloum for extra transformer related footage i.e. Nike commerical, citroen commercials, etc. It makes me believe Bay might have a chance to pull this off with the technology we have today. Regardless the yellow camaro!

  • July 12, 2006, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Anchorite, thats your problem. Your having pride

    by moondoggy2u

    in things you shouldnt. You should feel ashamed of your acheivement, ownership, and individuality. How dare you show others that you are more successful then they! How dare you spit over everyone else&#39;s identity by proudly displaying your own! Haven&#39;t you done things wrong in your life? Who are you to say you&#39;re perfect, that your ideals matter, when there are others who&#39;s racial identity matters far more than your own. Who are you to judge others&#39; ideals! Only I am allowed to do that, after all, I&#39;m open-minded and tolerant. So shut up and keep rowing, slave.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Quint, that&#39;s actually bad advice.

    by Orbots Commander

    I have no desire whatsoever to see Transformers, but from a strategic point of view, Bay and Dreamworks are doing the right thing. For the most part, keep those robots hidden until the premiere. Why? In order to build curiosity. It works every time for Spielberg, like in Jurassic Park (all we saw in the ads was that T-Rex foot), War of the Worlds (no tripods in the ads), and even E.T. (the original ads never really showed the alien). Showing your hand early on so far hasn&#39;t worked for either Peter Jackson (King Kong) or Bryan Singer (Superman Returns). This includes those video diaries. I&#39;m sure fans love them, but from the filmmakers standpoint, it kills anticipation.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:21 p.m. CST

    lol. Rolande just repeated everything I said he would

    by moondoggy2u

    granted, he typed it while I was typing, and so I didnt see it, but what can I say? I know these little guys like the back of my hand. Rolande, again, you are failing to differentiate between government actions and a culture that is founded upon idealism. Asking for an american character to remain american in an american film in which the majority of film goers will be american isnt too much to ask. Or do I need a poll for that?

  • July 12, 2006, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Moondoggy&#39;s Poll

    by Thenedain

    Yes, yes you do. Rolande demands it! This, he commands! Know what? I&#39;m going to the mall sometime this week with that freakin&#39; truck picture and do a random sampling. See who thinks it&#39;s Optimus Prime. That&#39;ll tell the tale, me thinks.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Um, moondoggy, I repeated nothing...

    by Childe Roland

    ...that you typed. You&#39;d think a teacher would have learned to read somewhere along the way. AAnd as I&#39;ve said before, you go with your pride and strong feelings about your beliefs. Iadmire you for having them...right up until you start telling me they&#39;re the only ones people should have. That&#39;s when you reveal(ed) yourself as a narrow-minded asshat. I honestly don&#39;t know what you think you&#39;re accomplishing in pretending I&#39;m saying things I haven&#39;t. Does that make you somehow feel superior to me in the same way that pretending the rest of the world agrees with you on Prime makes you feel confident in your opinion about that? How very insecure you must be. Did your mother not breast feed you?

  • July 12, 2006, 4:26 p.m. CST

    You can&#39;t bring up America or American without being

    by superninja

    political. That&#39;s just the way things are now.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:27 p.m. CST

    All This Japanese Version Vs. American Version Bull...

    by Playhouse

    Yes, it is true Transformers was based off of a few different toylines that originally existed in Japan. However... American company Hasbro talked with Japanese manufacturer Takara about turning them into one cohesive line, which became Transformers. Then Hasbro and Takara went to Marvel Comics to create the backstory and history of the characters and their personalities. (Which were slightly changed in the transition to television with Sunburst.) So Transformers as an entity is very much an American construct. In fact, there came a time in the G1 line that Marvel and Hasbro were coming up with character designs and sending them off to Takara to produce. As with anything American, though, tastes change. While there are still rabid fans of G1 and even newer fans with Beast Wars/Machines, the popularity of Transformers really died off in America by the end of the &#39;80s. Japan, however, and a large chunk of Europe still glommed on to the characters and the properties popularity has continued to skyrockets in those parts of the world for the last 20 years. So yes, there is a huge fanbase throughout the rest of the world that is considerably larger than those in the States. But the Transformers story that we know and love was born and bred in the good ol&#39; U.S. of A. And that&#39;s not jingoistic jawing, it&#39;s a matter of record and fact.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Moondoggy never said that his beliefs are

    by superninja

    the only ones people should have. Come on, you&#39;re just reaching.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Ben Stein As Soundwave?

    by MarkoOhNo

    Soundwave: "Megatron...? Megatron...? Megatron...? Megatron...?" lol Maybe with enough digital effects added to his voice.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Rolande and patriotism

    by moondoggy2u

    you&#39;re absolutely right: you should question and examine your leaders. However, you should also examine the nation&#39;s ideals; what it tries to stand for. How do you do that, you ask? By looking in the constitution of the united states, you will find an entire slew of things to be proud of, even to fight and die for (I know I did). Now, if you are a patriot to the united states, then you will staunchly believe in those ideas and be comfortable with american culture as it exists. I agree, nothing is perfect, and our culture certainly has its flaws, but the foundation of our culture, our ideals, is what makes this nation the greatest in the world, and deservedly so.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:30 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Shush! Quiet! Stow that shit away, else Bay reads it and tries it! Granted, that "Megatron...?" crack would be pretty damned funny, but it&#39;d still be silly...

  • July 12, 2006, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Moondoggy, I wouldn&#39;t open that can of worms.

    by superninja

    You&#39;re just going to get a load of rhetoric about what a bunch of d!cks the founders were.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:32 p.m. CST

    thanks, ninja.

    by moondoggy2u

    I&#39;m glad someone else besides myself noticed that little tidbit. In point of fact, I could care less how different you feel; thats your perogative. Where I begin to care is when somebody says a majoral opinion doesnt count because he/she says so. That, dear friends, smacks of something far uglier and a bit more sinister.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Transformers: American Heroes

    by MarkoOhNo

    Here&#39;s all the evidence you need. The Japanese didn&#39;t even have "The Transformers" until after it&#39;s American release. Before then, they had (and I&#39;m completely serious) "Super God Robot Force". (Sounds like a cartoon on the Christian network. lol) Nope "The Transformers" was born in the USA. And yes, Optimus&#39;s voice is most DEFINITELY based on John Wayne. Just take any clip of him talking and play it side by side with any Wayne clip. "I thought ya were made of ster-ner stuff, Meg-a-tron. Wa-ha" lol

  • July 12, 2006, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Sokay, superninja

    by moondoggy2u

    I live in NY state and teach in a NY highschool and a NY university. Believe me, I&#39;m used to being labeled by Those Who Feel There Should Be No Lables.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:36 p.m. CST

    "One shall stand, one shall fall."

    by moondoggy2u

    "Why I oughtta hit you right in the mouth! But I wont, I won&#39;t...THE HELL I WON&#39;T!"

  • July 12, 2006, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Moony, Ninja...

    by Thenedain

    I can&#39;t agree with you guys more. I personally despise the majority of my elected leaders, but I will never, ever, say that America&#39;s heart and soul is wrong. Idealism is never a bad thing. Do I question my government? Absolutely. Am I patriot? Damn freakin&#39; straight. Do I think Optimus Prime as depicted in the American version of Transformers, both cartoon and comics, was meant to represent an Iconic American Hero? Better believe it. And though I can&#39;t provide a poll to prove it, I can say I&#39;d be willing to bet you any amount of money that most Americans would say the same damned thing. American movie + American audiences = Fucking John Wayne sounding red, white and blue G1 Optimus. &#39;nuff said.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:40 p.m. CST

    thanks, thenedain

    by moondoggy2u

    The sad, infuriating part about all of this is that a show with some american subtext and a VERY americanish lead is being retooled by the guy who figured the attack on Pearl Harbor was his best chance to watch some bombs go off. Yeah, I&#39;m sure he understands what it means to be american...

  • July 12, 2006, 4:41 p.m. CST

    actual video with spielberg etc. from the movie!!!

    by wcoop893

    watch this immediatly. theres no way spielberg is going to let this movie suck, and bay will bring the acion. check it out

  • July 12, 2006, 4:41 p.m. CST

    And Another Thing

    by MarkoOhNo

    The Ark crashed in the Pacific Northwest, around southern Washington or northern Oregon, which makes them American citizens. (And also, thus the redneck truck design. LOL)

  • July 12, 2006, 4:44 p.m. CST

    I&#39;ll back this movie if PETER CULLEN is involved

    by Neo Zeed

    Flames on the truck and all. Do not underestimate the power of the Cullen, Michael Bay. Fact: When Gen-X parents hear the voice of Peter Cullen as Optimus on the Transformers movie commercial, they will drag the kids to this movie as is ordered by a higher power. It&#39;s like friggin mind control..1. The parents hear the original Optimus Voice 2. They pre-order the friggin tickets 3 seconds later. It&#39;s as simple as that. Make your life easier Michael. After all... don&#39;t you want your movie to make money?

  • July 12, 2006, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Have you even been reading, superninja?

    by Childe Roland

    If moondoggy hadn&#39;t insisted that there was only one proper way to depict Prime (the way he personally sees the character) in this movie, he and I wouldn&#39;t even have typed to each other. And Playhouse, it was Sunbow that produced the American version of the Japanese cartoon (edited and redubbed for an American audience). The Japanese had their own storylines to go with the characters. And the Japanese and European toy markets kept the concept of Transformers alive long after interest in the U.S. dissipated. To discount them and the personal baggage they might bring to a film in favor of catering exclusively to the desires and preferences of a small section of the potential global fanbase (as many above have suggested Bay do by making this a completely g1 80s American focused film) would be ill advised, financially and narrow minded culturally.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:46 p.m. CST

    "G.I. Joe, a real...

    by superninja

    and All That Stuff! G.I. Joe is there..."

  • July 12, 2006, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Furthermore, Bay committed a very heinous act

    by moondoggy2u

    when he tried to say that the Pearl Harbor attack was caused by our restricting of the oil supply we were selling to Japan...and THATS IT! He doesnt mention the larger subtext in which we limited sales of our oil to japan because the league of nations, including us, were trying to get Japan to withdraw from freshly invaded China, Korea, and a slew of other countries. No oil means no war, right? So what did japan do in response? Rather than listen, they attacked the US (as though we&#39;d suddenly give it back to them as a result, right?). Does that matter to Bay? No chance in hell! Its our fault it started and the honor of the japanese is the only thing that kept us from speekeeing the language. What a bunch of hogwash!

  • July 12, 2006, 4:46 p.m. CST


    by BadMrWonka

    (had to throw a revenge of the nerds reference in there...sorry) anyway, this talkback is still going strong, and it&#39;s only real frame of reference is a crappy pic of a truck that was up for an hour...that is impressive...nerds have discovered some form of digital fusion to keep this going...personally, I played with legos, not transformers as a kid, and when they make a movies about THAT, I&#39;ll eat my own face...the closest we&#39;ve come is the White Stripes video a while back...

  • July 12, 2006, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Oh god, superninja and anchorite, dont give &#39;em ideas

    by moondoggy2u

    GI Joe isnt american! Its a group of international policeman (soldier is a bad word) that apprehend (not fight) international criminals(remember, terrorism is also a dirty word). After all, if the orignal G.I. Joe were american, why did he have a kung fu grip? Also, Yackbacker--you cant say that a lot of people have that opinion without backing that up! After all, there are LOTS of others with opposing views!

  • July 12, 2006, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Except for your ridiculous insistence that I tried...

    by Childe Roland sidetrack the discussion by pointing out why making Prime&#39;s colors some sort of pro-American political statement (which many had tried to do) is a bad idea (which you seem to agree it is), I agree with most of your points, Yackbacker. I only went to the political because folks kept bringing up how the removal of hte red, white and blue from the color scheme somehow de-Americanizes and diminishes the character. I still believe that to be bullshit, for all the reasons I stated. That said, where you&#39;re missing one of my crucial points is in the concept that Bay might be gearing this film toward a wider audience than the G1 American fanbase. That means he might be targeting the international audience as well as the domesstic audience that might connect more stongly with a G2 Optimus Prime (they might just be younger than you or I, and there&#39;s nothing at all wrong with that). And I believe he&#39;s counting on the real target audience of this film - unquestionably children (I mean, the plot is about a boy getting his first car and it involves giant robots based on toys) - not giving a shit what Prime looks like, possibly because so many different looking versions of the character have come out in the last 5-10 years. People who are saying Bay should have done the 80s G1-style Prime because it was the smartest or objectively best way to do it are blowing smoke. If they&#39;d admit that it would be the best way "for them" without trying to attribute this preference to some overwhelming mandate from the masses or irrefutable common sense, we&#39;d have nothing to argue about. If I can do it (and I have, because I still would&#39;ve prefeered a red and blue Mack truck), surely these people who fancy themselves to be so much smarter than I can wrap their brains around the concept.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Oh god, rolande, here we go again

    by moondoggy2u

    I cant help that my opinion of what Optimus Prime should look like is part of the majority while bay&#39;s is in the minority. Again, its simple business in the entertainment industry: get as many asses in the seas as possible. Failure to do so results in financial and/or job loss. When in rome, do as the romans do, as they say. Well, when having an american movie in an america and being viewed by americans, it might be a keen idea to maintain the iconic americanism of the main character.

  • July 12, 2006, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Showing stuff at Comic-Con isn&#39;t the same as a full

    by Kraken

    ..blown ad campaign. When Singer showed footage for X2 and Superman Returns at Comic Con, the fan buzz was extreme, and it was a good move and those films wern&#39;t coming out until the year after that con as well. SAme thing when Raimi revealed Doc Ock at comic-con and one of the scenes from Spider-Man 2 almost a year before it came out. They already "teased" Transformers at Con last year. Now it&#39;s time to show something to the fans. No, this doesn&#39;t mean start the full trailer and poster campaign to the general public, but get the 100,000+ comic con fans out there excited to plant the positive buzz seed before a stinky weed grows instead.

  • July 12, 2006, 5 p.m. CST

    Roland, I believe a great deal of this talkback

    by superninja

    has been to suggest that Bay is taking Optimus Prime (among other things) in the wrong direction. What that means is that we are asserting that our beliefs are indeed 1,000,000 superior to Michael Bay&#39;s on this subject. In fact, what are saying (if I may be so bold), is that we are actually superior human beings and Bay is inferior because of the fact that he doesn&#39;t understand the character. I hope Bay can live with himself. But I don&#39;t have any statistical data to support that assumption. Oh, and we have better hair.

  • July 12, 2006, 5 p.m. CST

    So, Rolande, now you are contesting Prime&#39;s americanism

    by moondoggy2u

    Good gravy, man. Of course, that doesnt surprise me one iota. If you had picked up on that character&#39;s americanism early on you would never have gotten interested in the entire transformers universe.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:02 p.m. CST

    the more look at the picture, the more they lose me

    by reckni

    O.P. with a pot-belly? Cool to change things a bit, but to overhaul the iconic Autobot? Maybe it&#39;ll grow on me, maybe if the voice work is cool, but how the Hell will O.P. look with a frickin&#39; pot-belly? Starting to sound gay as the day is long.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:03 p.m. CST

    anchorite and his bratz

    by moondoggy2u

    As long as its a negative representation, Brats will be great to represent the US, I think.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:04 p.m. CST

    And I thought Barbie had gone too bimbo.

    by superninja

    Only to discover, they had not yet invented the Bratz.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Superninja, were you a barbie girl?

    by moondoggy2u

  • July 12, 2006, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Yes. My Barbies went on dates with Transformers

    by superninja

    though. Ken was too square. And he couldn&#39;t transform. Loser.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:16 p.m. CST

    I figurd you were a barbie girl

    by moondoggy2u

    I was a GI joe kinda kid, myself, way back when they looked a bit different than they do today. To this day, one of my favorite commercials was that gi joe that grabs a car and picks up Barbie, much to Ken&#39;s chagrin. I have no idea what the advertisement was for, but it was a pretty nifty ad.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:19 p.m. CST

    And now that you guys are spinning on another...

    by Childe Roland

    ...set of words you tried to put in my mouth (did I even once mention G.I. Joe in this talkback? The "Real American Hero," complete with stars and stripes on the packaging, doesn&#39;t leave a lot of room for interpretation, boys), I&#39;ll just leave you to try and demonize me as some sort of anti-American subversive. I know it makes you feel much more comfortable to think that anyone who doesn&#39;t think and believe exactly as you do must have some insidious and sinister motive. Revel in your ignorance. It suits you. Oh, and Yackbacker, you are actually right about the Sunbow cartoon. I had confused it with the Robots in Disguise toons in terms of production process and schedule. But the point remains that, to an international audience, Optimus Prime (or whatever they might call the leader of the Autobots) would not be seen as an inherently American character. And Bay certainly shouldn&#39;t be criticized for perhaps taking this into account when selecting which previously used design for the character he wanted to go with. Again, it&#39;s all about how potentially wide his target audience can be.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:21 p.m. CST

    I liked the Joes, too. But finding the female

    by superninja

    characters was a real pain. I think Star Wars kind of changed all that with Princess Leia.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Roland, you&#39;d have a legitimate beef if Bay

    by superninja

    were making a live action movie based on the Japanese TF and they tried to make God Ginrai into John Wayne as a robot. That would just be bizarre. So, Bay should not refer to this character as Optimus Prime, that&#39;s all. If he is reinventing the TF, then let him have at it, but make a new Prime, yet another character. Even in the script review I read, they are only using a handful of the original names and doing their own thing with the rest. So why try to riff on nostalgia if you are making your own characters? Kind of like Superman Returns.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:27 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Well, then that settles it, doesnt it? Optimus Prime is indeed an american creation. Which brings me to the exact same point I&#39;ve been making the entire time: if an american movie about americans is being filmed in america and the main audience is americans, wouldnt it stand to reason you&#39;d want to maintain the american aspects of the character, especially since those aspects are THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE aspects of the entire production? Seems to me you&#39;d want better word of mouth from fans, and thus, more asses in seats. Again, what is the reason to NOT display the red, white, and blue and John Wayne impression? It wont alienate other audiences, especially when this here prejudiced and ethnocentric country is able to watch crouching tiger hidden dragon, mad max, and monty python films without getting into a tizzy. I guess those poor, foolish, backwater countries just dont possess our developed tastes and ability to sepperate politics form culture, huh? Amazing how the majority should always keep silent for fear of alienating a minority, whilst the minority is free to bitch and bitch and bitch and have their way? Or am I inferring too much from your previous posts?

  • July 12, 2006, 5:27 p.m. CST


    by R.C. the "Wise"


  • July 12, 2006, 5:29 p.m. CST

    So glad it&#39;s still a truck

    by Immortal_Fish

    Nose, no nose, cab, no cab, no big deal. Thankfully, he ain&#39;t a Humvee -- a gross departure I would expect of Bay given all the changes thus far. But the flames. Why? Like calling this movie based on G1. Why? The base would be much more accepting without the subterfuge. Enough with the lies. BTW, about Prime being red, white, and blue... he was the same colors in Japan too. Explain that after looking here:

  • July 12, 2006, 5:30 p.m. CST

    yackbacker, I can already hear anchorite

    by moondoggy2u

    "Oh, that doesnt prove anything. You&#39;d need several samples from various age genders, age groups, cultures, and countries to get a true opinion, and until you do that, bay should do whatever the hell he wants"

  • July 12, 2006, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Milk and credit card commercials

    by Immortal_Fish

    Let&#39;s admit here and now. These are the closest we&#39;ll ever get to the source material anywhere in the near or mid-term. Sorry, gang!

  • July 12, 2006, 5:33 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Except that that prime looks far more lithe and asian. Heck, he&#39;s even making the stereotypical pokemon face. Our prime, however, has far less emphasis on yello, thus leaving more emphasis on red, white, and blue, is much more bulky, and is always glaring. You know, kinda like John Wayne.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Spiderman 3 Setback: Raimi Out, Bay In

    by MarkoOhNo

    That&#39;s right, they&#39;re scrapping what they have so far of Spiderman 3 and having Bay redirect it. He already plans on renaming Sandman "Sand Castle" and saying that he&#39;s the brother of Frank Castle (The Punisher). Spiderman&#39;s mask will be redesigned to only cover part of his face and none of his hair (because Bay is in love with McGuire&#39;s hair.) The spider emblem will be removed and replaced with blue flames for no particular reason. Mary Jane&#39;s name will also be changed to Marijuana because he feels this is more honest.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:36 p.m. CST

    F--- You Michael Bay and Don Murphy

    by choonie

    That is all

  • July 12, 2006, 5:36 p.m. CST

    I read it, Yack. To me, what is the point, though?

    by superninja

    It may be true, but we have no way of really knowing. Seems more like slander.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:39 p.m. CST

    Why Fuck With Prime??

    by MarkoOhNo

    Because he&#39;s got the NICEST boron compressor! Mmmm baby! LOL

  • July 12, 2006, 5:40 p.m. CST

    wow, yackbacker. that explains a lot, doesnt it?

    by moondoggy2u

    those deleted scenes would probably push the movie well above the three hour limit, wouldn it? And now we know exactly where the money for the movie went, who needs to be fired from the production, and that the next supes sequel can be done, and done will, with 150 mil-no sweat.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:43 p.m. CST

    and I dont know if the party rumors are true or not

    by moondoggy2u

    and as superninja said, it doesnt matter one iota. However, if there is indeed over half an hour&#39;s worth of deleted scenes with fully realized scores and effects, and coupled together with a waaaaayyyy over long filming schedule, singer will probably have his hass handed to him. That movie, although I enjoyed it very, very much, should have only costed about 150 mil--maybe less.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:45 p.m. CST

    Oh shit, anchorite, I&#39;m sorry. I meant to say Rolande

    by moondoggy2u

    but I had a massive brain fart. I beg your pardon, anchorite.

  • July 12, 2006, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Your point would be dead on, superninja...

    by Childe Roland

    ...if the design they showed for Prime weren&#39;t a dead ringer for another American release of the same character under the same name. As has been pointed out, G2 Prime was a black truck with red flames. So if it looks like that, it has every right to be called Prime. And moondoggy, you still assume the main audience is both composed entirely of Americans and composed entirely of Americans who prefer G1 80s Prime to what it appears they&#39;re using (G2 Prime with flames). I think somewhere in your brain you know it&#39;s not that simple, but I&#39;ll remind you anyway: You are not the target market for this movie. Kids are. That&#39;s who Bay is banking on getting into the theater (along with their parents, many of whom couldn&#39;t care less about what Prime is going to look like). And those kids would&#39;ve come if Prime were a firetruck, a gorilla, a lion or a mastadon. As long as he turns into a big robot that smashes things, they&#39;re going to be right there. By making Prime a truck and, apparently, a truck based very closely on an American release of the character, Bay&#39;s already gone above and beyond the bar set for many films of this type (thinking primarily of comic book movies now, as there haven&#39;t been a crapload of toy property movies yet, and don&#39;t even get me started on how far video game movies tend to stray from the source material). You and a few others are the ones who brought up the American connotations of the apparently now absent red, white and blue color scheme and determined this was some sort of unforgivable, deal-breaking faux paux on Bay&#39;s part, and it simply isn&#39;t for the larger audience. You&#39;re also harping on a voice you haven&#39;t even heard yet (for all you or I know, Cullen might well get the job). So you can tell yourself that this is an American movie being made (wrong)primarily for Americans who all want that red,white and blue theme carried through for its symbolic value, but I&#39;m betting that DreamWorks and their marketing department disagree. they&#39;re looking at a bigger picture and, if they think going with a different previously established version of the character is going to help them attain their earnings goals by appealing to a wider demographic, then that&#39;s exactly what they&#39;re going to do (politics might have had something to do with the decision, but it was profit motivated, I assure you). I suspect that by making Prime a truck and one that would be familiar to some fans, Bay thought he was doing those fans a favor. And, for fans of G2 Prime, I&#39;d say he was right. I&#39;ll bet he&#39;s sorry as hell he offended you, though. Maybe he&#39;ll release a special director&#39;s edition with skins you can assign to the CGI characters, so you can have your red, white and blue Prime while someone else enjoys their gorilla Prime and still others enjoy a Mastadon or a Lion. I wouldn&#39;t hold my breath, but the technology certainly exists...assuming Bay and Dream Works care enough about you to bother. More likely, however, the Japanese will remake the movie with an all Japanese cast and their own versions of the characters...just like the U.S. has been doing to Asian horror and crime noir films for the last several years (I had to laugh when you brought up how open minded American cinema has been to other cultures, for every Crouching Tiger there&#39;s a Grudge, a The Ring and a The Departed).

  • July 12, 2006, 5:58 p.m. CST

    If the red white and blue had served the character...

    by Childe Roland well for 20+ years, there wouldn&#39;t have been a G2 design to base movie Prime on. Please stoip typing about things you know nothing about anchorite, like Transformers and patriotism. Blind loyalty and a "my country, wrong or right" attitude do not make you a patriot. In fact, it diminishes the word. I&#39;ve fought for my country out of a sense of patriotism. I&#39;ve championed the constitution and the ideals of our founding fathers at every opportunity. And I know a perversion of those ideals when I see it. I most certainly don&#39;t need to defend my commitment to the concepts underlying this nation to you. I&#39;ve earned the right to criticize my government by informing myself concerning its history and the issues we face. You can&#39;t even be bothered to inform yourself enough about the subject of this talkback to contribute anything new or meaningful to the discussion. You&#39;re just looking for another excuse to reassure yourself that what we&#39;re doing in the middle east is right and necessary. That&#39;s fact, it&#39;s the perfectly natural response of the frightened and the uncertain. But you really shouldn&#39;t be so loud about your ignorance, on any topic.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:05 p.m. CST


    by Immortal_Fish

    Have you considered that it might just be -- given all the gross departures we know of -- an odd coincidence that G2 Optimus happens to be flames on black? That Bay or some other &#39;creatively&#39; implemented that alteration unaware of what the G2s look like? I don&#39;t mean to harp on you as it has already been covered, but the Superman comparison resonates. Singer could have went with a white costume with blue highlights and electric powers and he still would have adhered to canon. But doesn&#39;t it make sense to adhere as close as possible to the look of a character? Ferrigno&#39;s Hulk could get shot, but he was still green and musclebound. Jackman&#39;s Logan wore black, was 30 years younger and a foot taller, yet he still had claws and an eccentric &#39;do. From what we&#39;ve heard, and G1/G2 aside, Prime won&#39;t have the same face, won&#39;t have the same color, and won&#39;t have his voice. Apart from being some variant of truck, to me, he won&#39;t be what makes him him.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:05 p.m. CST

    The FACT Is: NObody Wants A G2 OP

    by MarkoOhNo

    If ANYone liked the design, it would&#39;ve lasted on the cartoons longer than 2 months. Plain & simple. The original G1 design lasted for YEARS and is still the design of choice for the vast majority of Transformers fans old enough to buy their own tickets.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Bay&#39;s Prime = Rex Reed&#39;s Daredevil

    by Immortal_Fish

    Search your feelings, young Skywalker. You know it to be true.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:10 p.m. CST

    And I Must Admit

    by MarkoOhNo

    Even if they made Bumblebee a VW Bug instead of a Camaro, but made him a MODERN VW Bug instead of the old style, I&#39;d still be a little upset with the discrepancy. lol

  • July 12, 2006, 6:11 p.m. CST


    by Orpheus2k

    This goes out to all the clueless morons!!! FUCK YOU! Don&#39;t fucking triviliaze Transformers or it&#39;s characters just because you&#39;re brainwashed by your lame societal bias to be against science-fiction, robots, or cartoons and think it&#39;s just for kids. Fucking uptight snobs. Transformers isn&#39;t just some cartoon about transforming robots. The show and characters are an icon of the 80&#39;s and had more depth to it then most of this shit you see on TV today. Yes, it was a cartoon based on toys, but it was more then that. And Prime isn&#39;t just a damn truck. He was an icon and A CHARACTER. He don&#39;t need no updating, his character is fine the way it is. Okay, I can maybe let certain things slide in terms of updating stuff, but don&#39;t DON&#39;T do it to the point where it COMPLETELY FUCKS UP the damn image of what the cartoon&#39;s star ICONIC character represents and stands for! Especially when the image the character represents is what made him so popular in the first place! Optimus Prime&#39;s character and role is supposed to be that of a noble heroic leader, with a John Wayne slant to him. NOT some fucking flashy, pimped up classless ghetto shitbag who guzzes beer, sleeps with hoes, and listens to ZZ-TOP redneck country music crap. Because that&#39;s EXACTLY what ghetto flames come across as! *sigh* Now go back and read again what I said Optimus&#39;s image/character is supposed to be, can you honestly tell me that fucking ghetto flames is appropriate for what the character represents? HELL FUCKING NO!!! If you&#39;re going to make a movie based on something, at least get the damn main character right! Damnit, I hate directors and morons that feel shit needs to be updated and changed. It&#39;s not about accepting change, don&#39;t friggin use that bullshit on me, it&#39;s about keeping stuff that made it famous and is part of it&#39;s image and character untouched, because that&#39;s what works! Would you put fucking flames on Superman and change his outfit&#39;s color to black and give him an afro and breasts? NO! Would you change Batman&#39;s batmobile to a pinto and color it yellow? Who the HELL would do that?! Would you change Batman&#39;s costume to red? FUCKING HELL NO! So why the hell change Prime&#39;s design? And honestly, who the hell is going to go see this because it&#39;s a Michael Bay film? NO ONE! They&#39;re going to see it because a) They&#39;re Transformers fans, or b) Because it looks cool due to the fact that it has giant transforming robots fighting eachother and blowing shit up; they might be sci-fi fans, so they dig this kind of stuff or their kid does. Now, keeping b)in mind, do you honestly think the b) group gives a shit what the robots look like? NO! They&#39;re going to watch the movie regardless! So why the hell in sam&#39;s hill not please group a)? Only some selfish, egotistical bastard who doesn&#39;t take the film material seriously and only cares about his way would do such a thing! Only someone who is blinded by retarded theories of economic trends abstracted from reality into some equally retarded crackpot mathematical model, would do such a thing.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:13 p.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    Nooooooooooooooo!!! Noooooooo!!

  • July 12, 2006, 6:16 p.m. CST

    I doubt it was coincidence, Fish...

    by Childe Roland

    ...but your point bears further exploration. You (and moondoggy, who mentioned it earlier) are right. Supes could&#39;ve been white with blue lightning (or red, if I recall correctly). He could&#39;ve been blac suited with silver accents. He could even have had a mullet. But he didn&#39;t instead, he wore a slight variation on the now iconic red, yellow and blue outfit...and fans still bitched because it made him look "gay." Here Prime could&#39;ve been any number of wacky things, but he&#39;s a truck. That&#39;s a huge "win" for U.S. G1 fanboys right there. If the image is right and he&#39;s G2, it&#39;s still a lot closer to G1 than it might have been (and closer still than movie Wolverine was to comic Wolverine, which no one really seemed to mind). As for the other things we&#39;ve "heard" that you mentioned in your post (I&#39;ve seen the same rumors on the boards): we don&#39;t know whether he will have the same masked face (Bay said something to the effect of the mask being removable, as it is on the Masterpiece Prime toy), the color goes hand in hand with the design which we&#39;ve established has been used for Prime before, and we have no idea as of this point what his voice is going to sound like. I think the uncertainty of this last point might be contributing to the violent backlash of G1 purists, some of whom have even indicated (in this talkback) that they would forgive the G2 design if CUllen&#39;s voice were used. We&#39;ll just have to wait and see.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:18 p.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    I was just about to make a comment saying, "Mr Bay? Bob Falfa called -- he wants his drag racing flames back." And then realized... Harrison Ford would be a pretty decent Optimus Prime voice. Anyone else agree?

  • July 12, 2006, 6:27 p.m. CST

    If they have to get someone else to voice Prime

    by Immortal_Fish

    Honestly, if Bay has a bug up his ass to get someone other than Cullen, I don&#39;t see how it can be done by anyone other than an impersonator, at the very least. How about Patrick Warburton? It&#39;s only a slight variance on his Brock Samson voice from Venture Brothers. Give him a listen and you may agree. Still, given all the other changes, I wouldn&#39;t put it past Bay to cast Harvey Fierstein in the role. "Autobots! Transform and flame on!"

  • July 12, 2006, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Being secretive is not hurting this movie

    by Matt S

    1. I&#39;m certain that nobody from this site has been on set. 2. Them being secretive about the movie is not what&#39;s hurting it. The fact that Bay and Spielberg are making too many changes to the Transformers is what&#39;s hurting it. They&#39;re making more changes to this movie than were made to the Masters Of The Universe movie! About point #1. Bay and Murphy have expressed on their boards their extreme dislike for people who run these internet movie sites, and would never show them the time of the day. The leaked picture? How did they get it? It probably was not even Prime. If it was a real picture, it COULD have been a different Transformer. They&#39;re making so many changes to the movie that it could have been a decepticon. I saw the design before they pulled it and you can still find it on other sites. It does not look like what the leader of the Autobots would look like. It&#39;s either a fake (purposefully sent out), and DreamWorks having them pull it just gives legitimacy (false) to the picture. Or it&#39;s a different Transformer. Of course my statements are in the form of questions and wonders.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:31 p.m. CST

    Let Them Have Truck

    by MarkoOhNo

    Saying it&#39;s enough that Prime be a truck -- who cares beyond that -- is like saying it&#39;s enough that Superman is a guy in a cape. Who cares if the guy is Napolean Dynamite, the suit is green and the cape is pink -- it&#39;s a guy in a cape, what more did you expect? lol =P So give up that argument. It&#39;s weak and makes you sound like an utter ignoramus.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Childe, reason why I wonder of coincidence

    by Immortal_Fish

    Let&#39;s face it, give a monkey two pieces of wood and he&#39;ll eventually figure out how to hammer them together the same way as experimental monkey #215 before him. Randomly sticking flames on a truck by sheer coincidence is as random a possibility we may be unaware of, as are the lack of faceplate, voice, and color scheme rumors you mention. My debating point is that given all the other changes, and there are many, it&#39;s reasonably within the realm of possibility. Remember, this has been billed as based on G1, not G2. I bet &#39;based on G1&#39; to a suit means that the lead good guy and lead bad guy have the same names from the source material.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:36 p.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    LOL!!! The sad thing is, I envisioned that a little too well, with Fierstein&#39;s femmy, gravelly voice! And then imagine a fight scene between Fierstein Prime and Megatron. It&#39;d be full of limpwristed slaps, grunts and screams. LOL And you know how they twist each others&#39; names when they insult each other? Fierstein Prime would call Megatron "Mega-bitch". haha!

  • July 12, 2006, 6:38 p.m. CST

    ahhh, rolande, yet another straw man

    by moondoggy2u

    So now I&#39;m suddenly for what we&#39;re doing in the middle east, hmm? Let me put it this way, Rolande, things are far from black and white over there, but not quite in the way you assume. Just as you have varying political opinions, personalities, and groups residing within the united states, so to do you have over there. The point that I&#39;m making is that you cannot simply point to some situation as broadly as you do and then through osmosis proclaim all of americanism evil or something to be quieted and reserved. None of us, myself included, injected politics into this film. I did, however, say that the character of Optimus Prime as he existed in the eighties was a cultural reference due to either an accidental convergence of cullen, characterization, and imagery, or, most likely, the result of marketing strategy. In either case, the character does bare american characteristics, and said characteristics, american or not, are THE most popular and identified characteristics among our american pop culture. Now, seeing as how the character in no way is sending a political message, these characteristics are in neither way offensive or uplifting, save to those who enjoy american culture or hate it. Now, because those characteristics are the most identifiable and most beloved by the masses (myself included), whether due to americanism or because of the love for the character itself, it stands to reason to include those characteristics for reasons entirely financial, particularly when the film is american and the majority of its audience is american, so as to provide the image that your core audience best responds to. Its very logical and reasonable, rolande, and hardly opinionated. In fact, as many film productions have testified, when one goes out of the way in NOT reaching the core audience, one fails. END OF POINT. Now, where anchorite, superninja, and myself were criticizing you was because you immediately lashed out at american culture simply because you disliked the politics and decisions of the current administration. You actred rudely and prejudicially, throwing a huuuuge blanket statement out in this discussion and somehow likening our culture to some political action by some goon in charge. None of us are shy about american culture, particularly when it comes a largely american interpratation in an american movie and yet you seem to be. Worse, you seem to go out of your way to slam our culture the moment it was brought into this discussion as it pertains to a character&#39;s idiosyncracies. You were the one being loud, my friend, you who were displaying your biggotry and ignorance, acting both rudely and elitist. None of us three have been very loud at all--well, maybe anchorite was a bit loud;). But if you read my posts again, particularly my artist/painting analogy, you&#39;ll find I was cautioning and scolding you from making crass generalities and comparisions, in effect, telling you to be patient and open-minded. You wouldnt have any of that, however, Rolande; you know best, after all, and that is why this discussion has arrived to this point.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:42 p.m. CST

    re: dead youngling

    by beamish13

    you have just written what may very well be the apotheosis of all of AICN. I read it out loud to my girlfriend, and we laughed our asses off silly. Thank you so much. You&#39;re a wonderful, courageous man.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:44 p.m. CST


    by scbarger

    That can&#39;t be Prime what was with the truck at comic-con 2005 (Freightliner Argosy) the one under the black cover. May be he is like bumlebee and gets beats up and the long nose truck is before that happens.

  • July 12, 2006, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Anchorite vs. Childe

    by Immortal_Fish

    Let&#39;s try to avoid politicking on this TB, anchorite. Stick to the topic. He&#39;s made some good points and I suspect he&#39;s playing devil&#39;s advocate way more than devout Bay apologist. By now you may recognize me as a conservative. Having sparred with Childe in the past, I can say I know that he is not. However, I&#39;ve found him to be more of a traditional than a far lefty. More of the Lieberman stripe than Howard "the doc" Dean. Of course, I&#39;ve likely pissed you both off with this so I&#39;ll kindly whimper away with the matrix of genevaship between my legs...

  • July 12, 2006, 6:52 p.m. CST

    The Dream Team

    by MarkoOhNo

    Andy Dick as Optimus Prime, Andy Melanakis as Bumblebee, Kevin Fetterline as Jazz, Brendan Fraser as Megatron, Pauly Shore as Starscream, and Carrottop as Soundwave. There ya go. Let&#39;s just make the movie as much fun as watching someone drag their fingernails down a chalkboard. lol

  • July 12, 2006, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Another Optimus Prime photo...

    by misterWINKIE;s true...ha has officially been to be him

  • July 12, 2006, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Anchorite #215

    by Immortal_Fish

    I swear I pulled what I thought was the most rediculous sounding voice out of my head! I would have used Paul Reubens first, but I couldn&#39;t think of a funny PeeWee line. But then again, I&#39;m a "republican bigot" as JJ4P would say. Thanks for at least lending me credence about the monkey business.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:04 p.m. CST

    Like to see tons more pics from the set of Transformers

    by misterWINKIE

    Look familiar Quint

  • July 12, 2006, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Keep trying, MarkoOhNo

    by Immortal_Fish

    Ben Stein as Optimus. Steven Wright as Megatron. Darrell Winfield (the Marlboro Man) as Starscream. Phyllis Diller as Soundwave. Vern Troyer as Bumble Bee.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:11 p.m. CST


    by misterWINKIE


  • July 12, 2006, 7:12 p.m. CST


    by misterWINKIE

  • July 12, 2006, 7:28 p.m. CST

    IM back

    by Phategod2

    Ive been watching this post while im here at work and just decided to get a second ID for work . Dont tell There is a couple of things I&#39;ve been seeing here i wanted to get off my chest. 1st.Transformers

  • July 12, 2006, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Is more then 30 minute commercial

    by Phategod2

  • July 12, 2006, 7:36 p.m. CST

    uh, you guys

    by samsquanch

    you&#39;re fighting over a truck that turns into a robot. How the FUCK did you manage to find the right/left bitchfest potential in this one? I&#39;m not even angry. That&#39;s amazing.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:47 p.m. CST

    Dstrbo1-I&#39;ll tell you how

    by moondoggy2u

    most of us mentioned the john wayne persona of Prime and that he was very american in the 80s cartoons and for some reason, bay was shying away from everything that made prime prime. Thats when suddenly Childe Roland launched into an "it doesnt need to be american because america is just a bunch of imperialists and the autobots are like middle eastern freedom fighters" statement. Since this came out of the blue, a lot of us were understandably annoyed and have been taking him to task for his rant ever since. And now you know the rest of the story and knowing is half the battle so transform and roll out.

  • July 12, 2006, 7:53 p.m. CST

    Roland, You need to stay away from these TF Talkbacks

    by Mace13

    They&#39;re just not liking you Just been brousing through what&#39;s been going on up above and want to correct a few things. A couple other guys already stated most of this but i&#39;ll repeat it again. The Transformers were originally created by Hasbro and Takara mutually. Hasbro created the backstory and characters and etc.,. and used a lot of already existing toys from other lines (specifically one called diaclones)by the japanese company Takara to base the characters on. That way they didn&#39;t have to create new molds and everything to make them. Takara&#39;s toys were never released here in the states so they&#39;d still all be new to us U.S. kiddies. The original G1 Transformers cartoon was NOT a japanese toon that was imported to America. It was the other way around. Marvel/Sunbow (an american company) animated it for the U.S. audience. It was then imported to the japanese audience after airing here first. The Transformers toys and cartoon both were originally introduced here in the states before anywhere else. It proved to be so popular that Takara then released them to their japanese audience as well. They of course redubbed the voices as well as changed the characters names and etc.,. to better fit into their own culture. Optimus Prime became Convoy,Jazz became Meister and you get the picture. There I hope that clears a few things up. No offense Roland but you had few facts wrong in your arguments about some of that. And just to throw my opinion in since i&#39;m already here, I to believe that G1 Prime was portrayed to be american like on the cartoon. for starters he had the John Wayne sounding voice. John Wayne was considered a part of americana even then.I was 11 or 12 when this first aired and even I knew he sounded similiar to wayne at the time. Secondly,Prime stood for the whole truth and justice thing and to do what was right and etc.,. basically everything you like to think America actually stands for. Anyway, that&#39;s my thoughts on that. And Bay is F*****G this movie all up. Roland,I understand the points your making about there being all of these different versions of Prime over the years and all of that crap ok. Just give it a rest.You keep trying to use that to back your argument on why us G1 fans shouldn&#39;t be pissed about this not even resembling the G1 prime because as you keep insisting that either Bay is trying to appeal to a wider audience or that G1 prime would just look too unreal on screen. That kinda talk just shows that you&#39;re in the minority on this one buddy. Why do you think people keep arguing with you on that? G1 prime is by far the most recognizable out of all of them. He was the original and most popular and can never be replaced regardless of how many times they reintroduce the character in a new form. You show the pic of Bay&#39;s Prime (apparently based on the g2 version) to people and just say "who is this?" and 5 bucks says they couldn&#39;t tell you. You show a pic of the g1 prime as a semi to people and they&#39;ll be saying "That&#39;s Optimus Prime" before you can even ask the damn question. Now that&#39;s fucking nostaglia for you. G1 prime is an american icon whether you wanna believe it or not. And Bay is being a total dumbass in not using that to his advantage. All he is doing is turning away the built in fan base for this movie by changing everything just so he can put his own lil stamp on the whole franchise and say "There,that&#39;s my version of it." They kept insisting that this movie was going to be based on the G1 story. I&#39;m not seeing a fucking thing from G1 in this movie yet. Maybe some of the names but that&#39;s it. Nothing else. If they wanted give Prime an updated look then thats fine. But I wouldn&#39;t call the form they chose for him updated. They should have done it more like this Now thats what an updated G1 prime should look like. Not what they chose. Anyone agree with me on this?

  • July 12, 2006, 7:54 p.m. CST

    i&#39;m starting to think this is a joke

    by BLWiseass

    or some kind of hoax to piss off the online community and make us doubt any future leaks. Part of some plan to keep the info secret etc. It has to be right? Nobody is stupid enough to make a pimp my prime, right?? right??

  • July 12, 2006, 7:56 p.m. CST

    thanks for those pics misterWINKIE

    by Screaming Brain

    nice little collection you got there.

  • July 12, 2006, 8 p.m. CST

    Pimp My Prime?!?! Bwahahahahahaha!!

    by moondoggy2u

    That is the Bay version of Prime, all right--Pimp my Prime. I&#39;m going to remember that one, wiseass. Very funny!

  • July 12, 2006, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Roland and Yackbacker

    by Playhouse

    Roland - Thanks for the correction on Sunbow. I could see the logo in my head but not the name clearly. Yackbacker - Thanks for the follow-up on Sunbow re-dubbing the American version of the cartoon for Japanese audiences and not the other way around. Roland - You&#39;re right that the Japanese and European fan interest shouldn&#39;t be ignored. However, since this is an American movie, I don&#39;t see why you wouldn&#39;t go with the most recognized version of the story and characters for Americans. If the Japanese or Europeans audiences find that disappointing, I wouldn&#39;t be surprised to see them mount their own live-action films. But I&#39;m betting they wouldn&#39;t be that disappointed to see the story go back to its roots.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:17 p.m. CST

    Arise Ricer Prime

    by jegoing74


  • July 12, 2006, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Did any one save it, before they pulled the pic?

    by jodocus

  • July 12, 2006, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Why does Bay owe the fans anything right now?

    by INWOsuxRED

    If one day I walked by a theater to find out that a Transformers movie came out and maybe heard some people say it was good, I would see it, reguardless of how many fan presentations and exclusive stills the studio released to a bunch of nerds on the internet. I think Bay sucks. I think he will fuck this up. I think he will kill a franchise that I would otherwise be very interested in, even though I hope he doesn&#39;t. That doesn&#39;t mean he owes anything to me or anyone else. Even when AICN trys to give them positive spin, all they&#39;re getting is bad publicity. They&#39;d probably be best off to shut down their own website and go into hiding and worry more about making a decent movie than about "buzz" on the internet.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:38 p.m. CST

    TB vs Roland == Harry vs Mori re: Supes

    by Immortal_Fish

    The JJ Abrams "vehicle" would have made a hella spectacle compared to Singerman Returns. Yet, believe it or not, it would have been less like Superman than Singerman was. Mori rightfully took Harry to task for it. And I believe you guys are rightfully taking Childe to task for many of the same reasons. But then, Singerman was nothing like his comic roots, despite the Singerman version *appearing* way more like him (read: pantomiming Donner begat &#39;appearing&#39; like the comic roots). You know something? Perhaps Childe is absolutely correct. Perhaps Bay&#39;s Optimus is spot-on picture perfect regardless of bearing a flaming torso. Pergaps Bumblebee is the human/cybertron bridge he served in the cartoon and comics, despite being adapted as a hotrod. We don&#39;t know yet. What I&#39;m getting at here is that Harry held onto the Superman feel while Mori held onto the Superman mythos. Singer held onto the Superman mythos too, the *FILM* Superman mythos -- treating it not unlike a salad bar in that he took what he wanted and left the rest (Thank you for this quote, Egg Chen). And we who oppose Childe are holding onto the TF mythos. Where does that leave us, ultimately? And would the vision we want truly marry the source material more than the storytelling? Again, Singerman looked spot-on, yet wasn&#39;t skin deep. JJ Abrams&#39;s version, for all we know, may have been way more faithful. I write this, of course, disregarding the Kryptonian Luthor. I trust the more cerrebral of you lot can appreciate the spirit of civil discourse here.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Why doesN&#39;T Bay owe the fans anything right now?

    by Thenedain

    That&#39;s the question. Why WOULDN&#39;T he choose to go with a film that&#39;s recognizable by fans as being "their&#39;s"? If the majority of the movie going public wouldn&#39;t care one way or another, why not just go with the way the fans want it? Truth be told, there&#39;s way more people familiar with Transformers than just &#39;a bunch of nerds on the internet&#39;. As I&#39;ve been saying, Optimus Prime&#39;s image, and the iconography of Transformers is blazoned into Pop Culture and has been for years. Shit, there&#39;s more Transformers clothing available NOW then there was back in the day by my reckoning. It&#39;s why they didn&#39;t fuck with the Autobot/Decepticon symbols: people would know them and it would draw them in. My PARENTS, who are not your average internet nerds, voiced a desire to check out a Transformers film based solely off the fact that they remembered me watching it when I was a kid, not to mention having to beatdown other parents for the elusive G1 Prime toy. That&#39;s the high and low of it. There&#39;s no reason whatsoever why filmmakers choose to work around the fan&#39;s perceptions/desires other than a false logic saying that their ideas are better than the already existing fan bases; and sadly, usually those people who get ahold of movies like this have no inkling whatsoever what the property is all about. Check out X3 for a sample of that. If you can&#39;t sing the original Transformers theme song front to back, or better yet The Touch, then you&#39;ve got no right to be penning a script or designing the Transformers.

  • July 12, 2006, 8:46 p.m. CST

    New SpiderMan pic?

    by misterWINKIE

    I know this isn&#39;t a spidey TB...but has this picture surfaced yet...?...if It has...I apologize

  • July 12, 2006, 8:50 p.m. CST

    If that&#39;s real...

    by Thenedain

    it&#39;s pretty cool. The tagline&#39;s interesting: "Get ready for the ULTIMATE spin". If it&#39;s real, it sounds like they&#39;re going with the Ultimate Spidey version of Venom, not a bad choice, IMO. Be interesting if it turns out to be true.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:10 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    I loved that &#39;Genghis Khan was American&#39; line. I got a real kick outta that one. Yeesh... like I said, using a bad casting choice as an example is really ironic. It&#39;s like Prime has been cast badly as a really crappy looking truck instead of the Mongol he should be. LOL. The one huge loophole with his argument for it being "G2 Prime" was simply: out of the two, G1 or G2 Prime, which do YOU think would be better recognized? Better yet, which version sold better? With a huge portion of a film&#39;s gross being marketing revenue, you&#39;d think they&#39;d use this as an excuse to break out one of the older G1 molds and resell it under the Transformers: The Movie tagline. Hell, repackage the original Die Cast Prime again... people would buy it. Hell, all my friends would buy it simply because they never had the original! Christ, just use the Masterpiece Prime and make it more readily available: people would buy it by the buckets for that reason alone! That&#39;s where the argument for this "G2 Inspired" design falls apart. You can&#39;t possibly tell me they&#39;d make more money selling this as a toy then a new/rereleased version of G1. I bet they&#39;re kicking themselves in the asses because they can&#39;t use the orignal Gun form Megatron because it can&#39;t be sold in the US. Logical issues aside, you can bet if a Gun Megatron was sitting on the shelves instead of whatever he ends up being in the movie, Gun Megatron will sell more. Heck, it&#39;s virtually proven as Hasbro themselves are releasing a "Gun" Megatron in the upcoming Classics line. Not a broomhandle mauser or whatever Megatron was, but still a damned gun!

  • July 12, 2006, 9:13 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Let us not forget the classic Prime shouldnt be american because Bush is in office approach.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:25 p.m. CST

    Actually Yackbacker, I most certainly did admit...

    by Childe Roland

    ...where I was wrong on the G1 cartoon being an American creation (scroll up, you&#39;ll find it) because I&#39;d confused it with the Robots in Disguise cartoon (not like that was the tagline of the original or anything) and Playhouse thanked me for issuing the correction. So do try and keep your facts straight. And on the subject of fact, every other item you&#39;ve declared me onjectively "wrong" about remains a matter of personal opinion (except the fact I threw in about John Wayne&#39;s voice being used for Genghis can look that up if you like). This has been my point all along...that you and a number of others are embracing your opinions as though they are undisputed fact and that is simply ignorant. Also, anchorite, you STILL have yet to take me to task on anything. THe only points you&#39;ve raised in this talkback that haven&#39;t been covered EXHAUSTIVELY priot to your arrival concern your politics and speculations about mine. Frankly, that&#39;s old news as well. As for you, moondogy, did you read one of my posts to anchorite and assume I was talking to you? Read again. I&#39;ve never once commented on your personal feelings about the war in Iraq because I (until now) haven;t known shit about them. On anchorite&#39;s feelings, however, I&#39;ve become something of a reluctant expert. I&#39;ve conceded the one factual error I made in this talkback (see above concerning G1 cartoon vs. RID). The rest has been a diuscussion of opinions (mostly those of G1 purists), and if you all can&#39;t recognize, even after the production house (headed by Spielberg, no less) has done the research and reached the conclusion that yours might actually be the minority (this talkback not withstanding) with enough certainty to gamble on another look for their character holding wider potential appeal among their intended target audience, then I&#39;m not the one with a reality problem. But the posts all speak for themselves. And thanks for seeing at least the the beginnings of the forest for the trees, Fish. I now we&#39;ve had our differences, but you seem, at least, to be able to understand that there are more views to a kill than one might prefer to embrace.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:29 p.m. CST


    by Chief Redcock

    He is clearly a racist. Those comments shouldn&#39;t be tolerated.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:38 p.m. CST


    by Phategod2

    this entire TB is based of the pic of the Truck form what do you think it is going to be like after we see the robot form of Transformers. Something Just occured to me we would not have anything to say if prime was G1 true and true I think it is a conspiracy by hollywood and harry get hits AICN. keepp cranking out the crap we keep talking about it.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:38 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    You switched from talking to me to talking to anchorite so fast in that one post about questioning your patriotism that I didnt even catch it--sorry. However, my point about the reasons we jumped on your bandwagon still stand--you have to admit you did lump our culture with what some goon did in office, however, and made a really broad, incendiary, and offensive blanket statement. Other than that, I retract my "erecting another straw man" comment.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:39 p.m. CST

    I meant the Robot form of Optimus

    by Phategod2

  • July 12, 2006, 9:41 p.m. CST

    @ beamish 13

    by dead youngling

    Glad i could be a part of your laughter. this talkback&#39;s become a menage a trois, however, and I said everything i needed to back towards the beginning. my wife didn&#39;t appreciate me comparing her to a horse, or our sex to the kentucky derby.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:44 p.m. CST

    A bit of research for your amusement.

    by Thenedain

  • July 12, 2006, 9:45 p.m. CST

    Damn... where&#39;s the edit button!?

    by Thenedain Check out the quote from Cullen in this article: "I wanted Optimus Prime to be strong and just and fair," said Cullen, who now plays Eeyore in Disney&#39;s "Winnie the Pooh" cartoons. "I saw him like John Wayne, and did a little of that voice. ... I wanted him to be a superhero, not stupid or off-the-wall. He never yelled or lost his temper. I think the kids appreciated that."

  • July 12, 2006, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Re: Hasbro Marketing & Merchandising

    by hasbrorep

    Nowadays, adapted motion pictures are much more than just a movie. They are marketing and merchandising giants. As previous posts have indicated, Transformers started as line of Hasbro/Takara toys. In order to create longevity, Hasbro developed a smart storyline and subsequent cartoon series. In the fall of this year, Hasbro will release a line of Transformers "classic" toys. Rest assured, Hasbro will "not" repaint these designs for the movie associated toy release next year. Therefore, expect new designs in the movie. Optimus will still retain his tractor trailer disguise, but he will look different than his classic incarnation. The same goes for Megatron and most other characters. This is a movie based on a popular toy line, so why not expect it to inspire an entirely redesigned toy line in 2007? In closing, expect Michael Bay and Hasbro to work together on a merger of old and new Transformers concepts. For us G1 fans, we should expect the original voice actors to return but with new generation disguises. Remember the original tagline, "Robots in Disguise"? While we all adore Optimus Prime&#39;s original truck design, it&#39;s not really all that much of a disguise anymore and it is seriously outdated. According to the 1984 cartoon storyline, the Transformers crash landed on Earth and scanned modern vehicles for their post-Cybertron disguises. At the time, their scans matched 80&#39;s vehicles. Expect to see modern vehicle designs in this flick. The 80&#39;s were great, but this movie can&#39;t live for just us 80&#39;s fans. It must appeal to the masses, which means it must incorporate realistic situations. Hasbro is watching this movie closely and is making every effort to ensure that everyone will be very satisfied with the finished product. Thank you, Hasbro Rep

  • July 12, 2006, 9:53 p.m. CST

    thenedain--you are THE MAN!

    by moondoggy2u

    That settles it, then--Optimus Prime is indeed a robot with very american characteristics. Now, since the majority of the movie going public identifies with THAT american robot, doesnt it stand to reason you&#39;d emulate the character aesthetics, even if they are american? Or, in the interest of not pissing off anybody, do you downplay the americanism and make prime a citizen of the world? I think I speak for most everybody here when I say,"Bring oon John Wayne! Hire Cullen, lose the rigoddamndiculous flames and paint this truck red, blue, and white/grey, and lets transform and roll out."

  • July 12, 2006, 9:53 p.m. CST

    More research

    by Thenedain

    Scroll down here and look at the pictures, then tell me that the picture of the &#39;supposed Prime&#39; for this movie is anything close to what the standard set for Prime is. Only three of the 20 shown are black, with one other being white. 16 ( which doesn&#39;t include the original Prime toy ) are red, white and blue. And unless I&#39;m mistaken, it appears that nearly all of them are cabovers, not long noses.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:55 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Thanks, Moondoggy, I try.

  • July 12, 2006, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Hasbro Rep

    by dead youngling

    Thanks for the update. What you say makes sense, but you need to cater to the original fans for this movie to take off initially. the "classic" toys look SWEET by the way. I know i&#39;ll be picking up at least 4 of them--rodimus, megs, prime, and starscream. other readers, go to to check out the pics of these awesome figures!

  • July 12, 2006, 9:56 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Just realized I forgot the link in two posts back. Sorry, my bad. Here ya go:

  • July 12, 2006, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Posted Photo

    by trysop

    Here&#39;s a copy of the Optimus Prime Photo:

  • July 12, 2006, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Classic Toys

    by Thenedain

    I&#39;m liking them, especially Starscream and Astrotrain. Astrotrain looks amazingly sweet. I&#39;m not sold yet on Megatron, but am happy that he&#39;s once again a gun. To HasbroRep ( especially if you are indeed a HasbroRep ): tell your masters that they&#39;d be sorely wrong to allow anything but a classic look with this movie. I don&#39;t care if Prime becomes a long nose over a cabover, but his colors and voice have got to be representitive of what the US Transformers fanbase is used to seeing/hearing as Prime. I think they&#39;ll see the sales of the Classic line Optimus will reflect that it&#39;s the preferred design for the majority of US fans and collectors, who by the way make up a pretty large share of the market for Transformers merchandise. Hasbro has always tried to do right with the fans, and that&#39;s why I and others still hold out hope. I only pray that it&#39;s not misplaced when July 07 comes.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:16 p.m. CST

    Autobots *baaaaaaa* transform and stampede out!

    by Thenedain

    ROFL... goats... gotta stop drinking something when reading talkbacks, else one of these days I&#39;ll end up replacing a keyboard. Too funny...

  • July 12, 2006, 10:17 p.m. CST

    So let me get this striaght...

    by Childe Roland

    "I wanted Optimus Prime to be strong and just and fair," said Cullen, who now plays Eeyore in Disney&#39;s "Winnie the Pooh" cartoons. "I saw him like John Wayne, and did a little of that voice. ... I wanted him to be a superhero, not stupid or off-the-wall. He never yelled or lost his temper. I think the kids appreciated that." Any of this contradicts what I&#39;ve typed how? Did CUllen say "I wanted him to be an iconic American symbol?" No. He used the words "strong," "just" and "fair." Sounds familiar...but those words are hardly the intellectual property of the United States. I appreciate the research, as it offers some insight into whay Cullen chose the voice he did. But it does nothing to support moondoggy&#39;s argument that a John Wayne vloice unequivocably elevates the speaker to the status of an American icon (do I really need to cite Genghis Khan again?""I wanted Optimus Prime to be strong and just and fair," said Cullen, who now plays Eeyore in Disney&#39;s "Winnie the Pooh" cartoons. "I saw him like John Wayne, and did a little of that voice. ... I wanted him to be a superhero, not stupid or off-the-wall. He never yelled or lost his temper. I think the kids appreciated that." This contradicts anything I&#39;ve typed how, exactly? The words Cullen uses sound familiar, but "strong," "just" and "fair" are hardly the sole intellectual property of the United States. I appreciate the research and the insight into Cullen&#39;s mindset, as it seems to indicate he sees the character very similarly to the way I do. But he didn&#39;t use the word "American" anywhere in there. Or would some of us be suggesting that it&#39;s how a person looks (the colors) and talks (the voice) that qualify someone as an American? That doesn&#39;t seem right. And since we have the Hasbro rep in the house, maybe we can get some sales figures -- domestic and international -- for each version of the character (let&#39;s limit it to those with "Prime" in the name) so we aren&#39;t all just talking out our assholes?

  • July 12, 2006, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Transformers were created by MARVEL COMICS yakbacker

    by jegoing74

    The designs originated in Japan as Diaclone, the chracters being sentient is solely an American trait created by Marvel Comics. Diaclone were mere lifeless machines with Human pilots, see those little seats in the G1-tranformers, that is for the Human characters to pilot them.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Ok... let me help you a bit, Rolande....

    by Thenedain

    Red, White and Blue colors + strong, just and fair + sounding like John Wayne + story written by a US company + cartoon/toys aimed at US kids = stereotypical American folk hero. This was the 80s man! American patriotism was running like mad, hence cartoons like GI Joe. Hasbro looked at the leader of the good guys and said, " We want him to be a hero that our children will think is cool. We want him to have ideals that we, as a society, should embrace." Back then, it wasn&#39;t considered &#39;wrong&#39; to support our country like it is today. We wanted our children, and yes I was one of them, to have their heroes be right and virtuous and infallible. In short, they wanted them to be the so-called American Heroes of yesterday. No, I&#39;m not saying that everyone the world over would adopt Optimus as an American hero, but would in fact change him to make him their&#39;s. No, strong, just and fair are not trademarked by the United States, but for the longest time those words exemplified American values. The US has always been Nationalistic and aimed for patriotism: do you realize expect us to believe that this would be any different? To be frank, the only thing it seems Hasbro/Sunbow/Marvel took from the Japanese were the toy molds. Everything else? Products of the USA.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:28 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    The point is that Optimus is John wayne. And when you have john wayne attached to red, white, and blue, most people tend to think of america. Now, I&#39;ll grant you, not everyone, but most people do. The point, however, is not that he is american and should be embraced, but that the design shouldnt be discounted because of its americanism. Furthermore, for whatever reason people preferred Optimus as he was depicted in the eighties cartoon, whether because of americanism or simply a charismatic, nifty-colored robot, that image IS ingrained into the american populace. You seem to be contending that because it smacks of americana it shouldnt be used on account of possible alienation of fans from other countries, which I strongly contest. Furthermore, I cannot emphasize enough how much more sense it makes commercially and critically to embrace the american version on account of it being the most iconic, the most well known, the most embraced, and because its an american film playing to a clear majority of americans. In other words, its the best image that is accepted by the masses.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:28 p.m. CST

    I don&#39;t think the "no flames" thing is about patriotism

    by FluffyUnbound

    Unless by "patriotism" you mean "I love my country so much that I want all the people who think flames on a truck looks good put into camps and gassed - for the good of the country". Seriously, the people who are saying this pimp style is designed to appeal to kids are right. The problem is that today&#39;s kids are fucking pieces of shit, and everything marketed directly to them sucks bloody cunt. And looks like fucking road kill dressed in a redneck prom dress and dripping with gangbang sperm. That&#39;s the real problem with the flames. The "real" Transformers designs are fucking cheesy as hell, but cheesy is preferable to fucking Tokyo Drifty.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:32 p.m. CST

    anchorite: Sales Figures

    by Thenedain

    Interesting that you bring that point up. During my searching for links on Optimus, I sent an email to Hasbro asking them to provide me with the top three selling versions of Optimus. I seriously doubt they&#39;ll provide it, but if they do I&#39;ll be sure to post it here. If not, I&#39;ll post any response I get. I&#39;m really, really curious to see which versions sold the best as that will definitely put a big stamp on this debate, won&#39;t it? I will say this: when Dreamwave Comics a few years back decided to bring the Transformers comics series back, they chose to go with the original designs for a damned good reason. I remember just before the first issue hit shelves that they started selling a pair of posters: one with the classic G1 Optimus, the second with the classic G1 Megatron ( and the awesome tagline: I still function ). They must have chose those versions for a reason, don&#39;t you think?

  • July 12, 2006, 10:32 p.m. CST

    Too rap up in Political subtext

    by Phategod2

    I could care whether Optimus stands for Aremican Capitolist values and Im sure you could draw several different analogies between there story and other countries the piont where starting to miss is that Micheal Bay is screwing the just the early parts of the canon first the names now the forms and colors there will come a time where we wont recognize anything in this movie from G1 Transformers and thats sad when this movie was first mentioned Speilburg said how much he love G1 now we got Bay who was probably to busy jerking off in the girls locker room as a kid to see a episode coming out with this "family movie" all i can say is after the Original Transformers the movie he got a lot to live up to. Fuck the american subtext of Optimus Prime. he was a great, and nobel, leader, who happend to be Red and Blue can remember seeing any white on him. oh and one thing Thundercracker I love saying that.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:32 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    Looks like you and I and everybody else on this friggin talkback are in agreement--save for Roland. I give him full marks for effort, but its clearly becoming obvious that Roland is bordering on contentious.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:33 p.m. CST

    err...being contentious

    by moondoggy2u

  • July 12, 2006, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Dingdong the debate is dead.

    by jegoing74

    Optimus Prime err Diaclone Battle Convoy was red and blue and his trailer grey. You people are looking way too much into this shit, finding special meanings about countries, Cullen himself said he based Prime on john wayne, sorta like a cowboy, plain spoken all around kinda fella.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:40 p.m. CST

    agreed phategod

    by moondoggy2u

    See, its not that Prime is america and so we want prime. Its that we want prime and we feel that bay is fucking it up on account of him being associated with america, and so he&#39;s going to keep prime from being red, blue, and white and staying away from the Wayne impression. In other words, eliminating everything that made prime prime. And if Roland&#39;s attitudes and opinions are any indication, I would say that could very well be the reason Bay is pulling this crap, beyond his obvious contempt.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:42 p.m. CST

    Gee, jejoing, a cowboy, huh?

    by moondoggy2u

    And I wonder why americans identified with him and associate Prime with americana? I just dont understand it...

  • July 12, 2006, 10:42 p.m. CST

    By the ghost of Alpha Trion!!!

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    I came back here just to see what was going on. I can&#39;t believe you guys are still going at it. This has gotten so heated that you even got an alleged Hasbro Rep chiming in. Unfriggin&#39;believable!

  • July 12, 2006, 10:44 p.m. CST

    moondoggy2u Duhhhhhhhhh

    by jegoing74

    Where was Cullen to derive the character? He himself grew up in Canada/U.S. and there is a dialect they speak which is ENGLISH? Perhaps he should have modeled him after a Frenchmen. For fucksakes!

  • July 12, 2006, 10:45 p.m. CST

    goodnight, anchorite.

    by moondoggy2u

    gaius--none of us like giving up the bit once we&#39;ve got it by the teeth and Roland has been giving good sport.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:46 p.m. CST

    jegoing--i was being sarcastic

    by moondoggy2u

    for the benefit of Roland.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:50 p.m. CST

    thanks anchorite. jegoing was coming down pretty hard

    by moondoggy2u

    not that I blame him for that big duuuhhhhhhhhhhh. I&#39;ve been biting my lip to keep from saying it to Roland all day long today.

  • July 12, 2006, 10:51 p.m. CST

    Polls just in!

    by Thenedain

    After a quick poll of 30 some-odd people, none of them could identify the &#39;leaked picture&#39; readily as Optimus Prime. Conversely, all of them knew just by looking at it what a picture of the G1 Prime toy is. Apparently, Speilberg never polled them either...

  • July 12, 2006, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Why does Bay have contempt

    by Phategod2

    Did i fuck up his childhood what is he like forty. I actually liked armegeddon, and both Bad Boy&#39;s come on Bay do me a favor cut the contempt for whoever might able to positively affect one of your movies. Lucas thought he knew what was best for the franchise he made and look at the shitball that has piled up over the past 10 years with Star Wars. Stop listening to your inflated Ego and start listening to the people who matter the people who will spend money to see this cause I guaranDAMNtee that if you fuck up MY, and SupeNinja, and Moondoggy 2U&#39;s Optimus Prime you will not get my 8bucks and I will stand out side of the theater passing out copies of both the Original Tranformer movie as well as your shlock and hope that returns make The Hulk Look like a Blockbuster!

  • July 12, 2006, 10:54 p.m. CST

    That may be anchorite...

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    And I know that you would care cause I also know that YOU LOVE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!!!

  • July 12, 2006, 10:56 p.m. CST

    by syco

    fuck all this japanese bullshit......if they want optimus to be a lion or an elephant then they can shell out 200 million and make a movie.i guarantee this movie will flop if optimus does not stay true to the G1 cartoon

  • July 12, 2006, 10:59 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Great points, man! I think that this little Talkback should be forwarded to Spielberg/Bay/Hasbro as unofficial research information. Looks to me that the overwhelming majority here are for the G1 look, sound and feel. And I agree, if they go with that G2 look, it&#39;s because they either have unsold Laser Prime toys kicking around, or the mold still intact. At that point, I blame the damned Hasbro accountants!

  • July 12, 2006, 11 p.m. CST

    AMEN phategod2

    by moondoggy2u

    See whats funny is that I&#39;m not even a huge transfan or whatever the hell they call them, but I did watch the show a lot when I was in my early twenties and with a girlfriend&#39;s kids and enjoyed them quite a bit back then. But if I, an admitted semi-fan (pun intended) feel so strongly about this, then Im pretty sure I&#39;m not alone in my decision to not watch this flaming turd of a movie if prime isnt mostly depicted as the prime we all knew and loved. And you can take that to the goddamn bank, sister! On a side note, how many more wayneisms can we have before this tb goes away?

  • July 12, 2006, 11:01 p.m. CST

    I want to say November, maybe?

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    I&#39;m really looking forward to the show&#39;s return. Although I have to say that "Deadwood" has been kicking my ass.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:04 p.m. CST

    HAHAHAHAHA Yackbacker

    by moondoggy2u

    Thats the funniest thing I&#39;ve heard all day! Oh god, Im still holding my ribs in!!

  • July 12, 2006, 11:04 p.m. CST

    poor, poor wayne. ROFLMAO

    by moondoggy2u

  • July 12, 2006, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Yackbacker gets the offical "Best post of the thread"

    by moondoggy2u

    award. Nice going. I&#39;m still giggling.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:08 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    That&#39;s funny shit, Yackbacker! Two thumbs up!

  • July 12, 2006, 11:09 p.m. CST

    I can just see Wayne in heaven right now

    by moondoggy2u

    "Those goddamn Japs, wahaa!"

  • July 12, 2006, 11:10 p.m. CST

    509 posts and counting...

    by Thenedain

    Geez... we&#39;ve contributed to a pretty long ass talkback, guys. Who&#39;d have thunk that John Wayne would be responsible for so much debate?

  • July 12, 2006, 11:12 p.m. CST


    by Talkback1138

    Saw the picture early on, that truck would be fine if you were doing an adaptation of the M.A.S.K. cartoon, it&#39;s a dead ringer for "Rhino" but in no way does it represent anything Optimus Prime like. I know that trucks that look like Prime exist, I&#39;ve seen them with my own two eyes, now Mr. Bay go find one, paint it solid red and solid blue, and re-shoot all the Prime sequences. If you can&#39;t do that then your ONLY saving grace will be to get Peter Cullen to be the voice. Fail to do that and you&#39;ll reduce the movie&#39;s total take by 1/3 easily.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:15 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    A bit late to the game, but definitely agree wit ya. That totally looks like "Rhino". A friend of mine pointed out that it&#39;d look great as the Stunticon MotorMaster too. But it simply ain&#39;t Prime. No way, no how. Now, if it did turn out to be MotorMaster, that would freakin&#39; rule. Then, and only then, would I embrace this &#39;vision&#39; of Bay&#39;s. Well.. &#39;til they release pictures of Megatron and end up fucking him up too....

  • July 12, 2006, 11:16 p.m. CST

    "A psychobilly truck with goddamn flames is playin me?"

    by moondoggy2u

    "That&#39;ll be the day!" Thats the quote I just picked up from my ouija board, ladies and gents--that settles it.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Blue with Purple Flames?

    by Thenedain

    That&#39;s what it looked like, right? I mean, it&#39;s so iconic and all...

  • July 12, 2006, 11:23 p.m. CST

    This is barely related, but I&#39;ve got another Waynism

    by moondoggy2u

    "Out here, due process is a bullet."

  • July 12, 2006, 11:25 p.m. CST

    Holy mother of God!

    by Thenedain

    If that turns out to be what Megatron looks like, I&#39;ll shit myself with happiness. That picture is amazing. I&#39;d love to get my grubby little paws on a toy of that sucker. It&#39;s very true to the Classic Megatron look, while being revamped enough to become an Abrams. Not sure about the tan color, but I&#39;d have to see it &#39;live&#39; to make a call on that! Good find, Yackbacker!

  • July 12, 2006, 11:27 p.m. CST

    Thanks, yack

    by moondoggy2u

    See, I had always wondered from the very beginning why they didnt depict megatron as a tank. I mean, his shape would never have changed, he would have been far more realistic, and he would have then become the perfect antagonist to Prime--both unstopable and both pretty damn sizable and tough. I remember thinking that even on the very first episode when I saw Megatron transform into *surprise* an idiotic walter ppk.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Elvis was racist simple and plane

    by Phategod2

    Mother F*^% him and john wayne Sorry ever since i heard wayne was a racist I lost interest in him.primes voice might have been modeled after Wayne but I dont see wayne as a american Icon, or primes character. a Hollywood Icon, but not american. Optimus Stood for what everything every Good Human Being should stand for. kind of makes me wonder if we would be talking about this American Ideal IF Prime was not Red and Blue. And can someone tell me where was the white in Optimus Cause i am missing that color.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:30 p.m. CST

    It just never made sense, y&#39;know?

    by moondoggy2u

    Even when megatron turned into galvatron, which looked a bit more realistic, you still had the same problem: they were transforming into the same damn thing that they already had on their starboard arm.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:33 p.m. CST

    I lke Megatron as a Gun

    by Phategod2

    Especially the Dynamic between him and soudwave the most loyal follower was one of only one allowed to fire him along with starscream his biggest pain in the ass but best warrior.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:35 p.m. CST


    by moondoggy2u

    The sad thing is that as a result of cultural ignorance, most men of his generation felt the same way. Yeah, it was his biggest fault by far, but not one he bore with malice, I should think. Remember, even Jefferson kept slaves. A sign of the times more than the character, I should think. Not that Im condoning, mind you, but a I do understand that there are parts of men that are defined by the culture with which they inhabit.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Megatron wont be a tank. If Bay has his way,

    by moondoggy2u

    Megatron will either end up as an aircraft of some sort, an evil semi, or a cuisinart. My money is on Megatron transforming and cutting cucumbers in 9 different levels of thickness.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:40 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    I actually like a few of the Alternators, and though that they&#39;d perhaps use those designs in the movie. Though it ain&#39;t the traditional Optimus I know and love, I really do like the Alternators version. Sure, he&#39;s a pickup truck instead, but it looks like a cool ass toy. Now if only I could actually find it in my neck in the woods I&#39;d be all set. The Classic Optimus that&#39;s coming out isn&#39;t my favorite, but looks ok. That satellite dish thing on top looks really out of place to me. Don&#39;t know why. Anyway, this whole talkback has made me go looking around the &#39;net for cool Transformers toys to buy. Thanks guys. My wallet will bleed tonight because of you. Stupid nostalgia...

  • July 12, 2006, 11:42 p.m. CST

    thenedain--just buy a cuisinart

    by moondoggy2u

    and slap a decepticon sticker on the damn thing. Instant Michael Bay Megatron!

  • July 12, 2006, 11:46 p.m. CST

    Hey enough with all the High brow

    by Phategod2

    talk about racism with dead american, hollywood icons, and American overtones. who remembers that little truck that carried Optimus trailer that one time Megatron kicked his ass with all the powers of the Decepticons.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:46 p.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    Yeah... but do they make a Cuisinart that slices, dices, transforms AND makes ray gun sounds? If not, then I&#39;m gonna be shit outta luck...

  • July 12, 2006, 11:48 p.m. CST

    That&#39;d be Huffer, Phategod2

    by Thenedain

    In the episode The Heavy Metal War, which btw, is one of my all time favorite episodes of Transformers.

  • July 12, 2006, 11:48 p.m. CST

    Not sure, phategod2

    by moondoggy2u

    Could it have been that ambulance thing--ratchett or something like that? Anyway, I&#39;m off to the sack. Goodnight everybody.

  • July 13, 2006, 12:06 a.m. CST

    Transform and Roll out!

    by Thenedain

    Bedtime here too... nighty night Deceptocreeps!

  • July 13, 2006, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Good Night

    by Phategod1

  • July 13, 2006, 1:10 a.m. CST

    that drawing of Megatron..

    by Phategod1

    Looks like Bliztkrieg.

  • July 13, 2006, 1:17 a.m. CST

    Couldn&#39;t look worse

    by Aust1n

  • July 13, 2006, 1:27 a.m. CST

    As REM once said...

    by thedoctor26

    "Ooooh...the film is doomed...Optimus Prime isn&#39;t red, the movie&#39;s gonna booooooomb!" Yeah, because I told myself I would never go see Tomb Raider because Angelina Jolie&#39;s a** wasn&#39;t the right size, and everyone else obviously agreed with me, because the movie didn&#39;t make any money and nobdy saw it and it certainly didn&#39;t make enough to warrant a sequel. And no one saw the Star Wars prequels either, because it&#39;s so obvious that Ewan McGregor&#39;s accent is nowhere close to Alec Guinness&#39;. Plus, in the Power Rangers movie, the costumes had padding, when in the show, they clearly did not. This sentenced the movie to a quick death, forcing it to close 2 hours after opening and forever killing the Power Rangers franchise and causing millions of children to cry. I think I made my f*ckin point.

  • July 13, 2006, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Classics Line

    by Playhouse

    I&#39;m somewhat impressed with the classics line. I like Prime&#39;s bot mode, not so sure of his vehicle mode. Looks a bit too manga-style to me. And the color scheme on Megatron is a bit too garish for my liking. But the others look terrific, especially Starscream. Now, if they&#39;d only just refer to Rod as Hot Rod and not Rodimus (the vehicle mode is pure Hot Rod not the Prime trailer style), it would be perfect.

  • July 13, 2006, 2:52 a.m. CST


    by MarkoOhNo

    You mean Blitzwing? (One of my favorite 2nd season Transformers of the G1 line.) I love that rendering of Megatron... and I don&#39;t. I&#39;m torn. Clarification. It&#39;s always seemed like such a weakness to me that, in alt form, he REQUIRES others in order to be of any use. It forces him to put a HUGE amount of trust in the forces he often abuses that none of them will grab him in gun mode and just throw him in a narrow, deep pit. ("And now I, Starscream, am leader! Decepticons! Follow me!") He&#39;d be too cramped to transform and unable to move -- completely helpless. As such, you wouldn&#39;t expect someone with such a transformation to be the supreme leader. Maybe 2nd in Command. And yet... nostalgia says Megatron = gun. Tanks are powerful, but not particularly maneuverable or fast. For some reason, the idea of him being a tank or other military vehicle has never sat well with me either. (Besides, when you&#39;ve got Blitzwing as a tank, you don&#39;t really need any others. heh) So what would I have him transform into if I could decide? I don&#39;t know. An artillery cannon perhaps? Maybe a paper shredder or garbage disposal? *shrugs* hehehe My answer came to me in a line from the movie Time Bandits: "The most fabulous object in the world." LOL

  • July 13, 2006, 3:01 a.m. CST

    For Those Not Familiar With Blitzwing

    by MarkoOhNo

    ...and wondering why a Decepticon TANK would be named BlitzWING -- he&#39;s a Triplechanger: robot/tank/jet. One of my favs and I think the 2nd Transformer I ever owned. (1st was a double-tipped drill which would roll on it&#39;s own after you revved it up, then would pop up into robot mode mid-roll. Cheap design. lol Forgot its name tho. Only showed up in the cartoons once that I remember. An Autobot, as I recall.)

  • July 13, 2006, 3:07 a.m. CST

    what about the

    by Phategod1

    one of the combatacon was a tank too other then Shockwave that as far i can remember did not need anyone to shoot him. megatron was the only gun which kind of stood out

  • July 13, 2006, 3:37 a.m. CST

    Tanks, choppers, military, oh my!

    by MarkoOhNo

    Having read the latinoreview report on the early, early Transformers script, I couldn&#39;t help suspect that perhaps, just maybe Bruticus will make an appearance. After all, they mentioned a Decepticon tank, chopper, mine-clearing vehicle, and police vehicle (well okay, not a jeep, but close.) All they&#39;re missing is a space shuttle. lol All the same, if they&#39;re gonna have a combination-type, I wanna see DEV-A-STAT-ORRR!!! Who wouldn&#39;t?! Who among you DIDN&#39;T nearly wet your shorts as a kid the first time you saw the Constructicons combine? haha

  • July 13, 2006, 3:58 a.m. CST


    by BV;s probably what Prime looks like at the END of the movie. After he&#39;s had the shit kicked out of him, and needs to be repaired. Remember that Bumblebee looks like ass before the detailing, in the beginning of the film. I bet the same happens to Prime, in the last 5 minutes or something. The studio probably freaked because AICN gave away their ending.

  • July 13, 2006, 4:10 a.m. CST

    I hope to God..

    by YourDaddy

    ..that flaming turd is actually the decepticon truck Prime fights (according to comfirmed reports), and not Prime himself. After much tossing and turning in my sleep, it dawned on me that the black peice of flaming shit is either the decepticon truck or another autobot. Tell me im fucking right people??!! Please!!

  • July 13, 2006, 4:11 a.m. CST

    Oh, and RE: Cullen

    by BV

    You guys do realize he voiced Ironhide as well, right? And that Ironhide is in this film as well? C&#39;mon, let&#39;s let the original voice actors have their original material. I don&#39;t think I&#39;d be able to take this film seriously hearing the cartoon voices coming out of photo-realistic autobots. Please, let this franchise have it&#39;s own personality (if indeed this isn&#39;t being bastardized visually, as this pic may or may not have suggested), and let&#39;s get some new talent in on the voicing, at least. I didn&#39;t hear any of you insisting that Adam West be in Batman Begins, or that Gene Hackman be in Superman Returns.

  • July 13, 2006, 4:13 a.m. CST


    by BadMrWonka

    509 nerdlinger posts about a truck...I&#39;m in awe...

  • July 13, 2006, 5:18 a.m. CST

    LatinoReview: Hulk Hogan to voice Optimus Prime!

    by JackPumpkinhead

    All right, so I&#39;ve never seen Transformers, but this talkback is already hilariously long, and yet Hogan hasn&#39;t been in it yet. So here he is. "TRANSFORM, BROTHERS!"

  • July 13, 2006, 6:43 a.m. CST


    by Thenedain

    That Decepticon truck would be MotorMaster, one of the Stunticons if they keep the name, and if you&#39;re right about there being a scene where Prime fights another truck, that would be it. It was mentioned some 20 or so posts ago about it possibly being MotorMaster and it&#39;d work very well for him. Black truck, grey trailer. He&#39;s even a longnose sleeper truck as pictured.

  • July 13, 2006, 6:51 a.m. CST


    by YourDaddy

    "...The sequence has Optimus and a Decepticon speeding along a crowded freeway, the Decepticon&#39;s truck flipping over any vehicle in its way. Optimus is catching up to him and transforms as he gets close, keeping the tires on the ground and avoiding as many cars as he can. The transformation was everything Transformers geeks would want to see big...." Please let that fucking redneck flame job be MotorMaster and not Prime.

  • July 13, 2006, 6:55 a.m. CST

    RE, RE, Cullen

    by Thenedain

    ALL the voice actors in Transformers voiced multiple characters. Chris Collins, aka Chris Latta, voiced Starscream, Wheeljack and Sparkplug. Frank Welker did Megatron, Soundwave, nearly all the cassettes and Galvatron. Collins, sadly, is gone now and unable to reprise his role as Starscream, but the fans desire to have at least Megatron and Prime voiced by the original actors isn&#39;t misplaced. Those are the voices a large portion of the audience for a Transformers movie will expect to hear, especially those who go simply out of childhood nostalgia and haven&#39;t looked at Transformers since the 80s. Besides, there&#39;s a good reason why every iteration of Prime in cartoons over the years has kept that same style of voice for him: it&#39;s easily recognizeable. Plus, Megatron was never more evil sounding than when Welker voiced him. Both guys still work in the industry, are easily accessible, and would probably do the film as a labor of love, whereas getting a &#39;known actor&#39; to voice them would more likely than not cost more, and would overshadow the character. They once rumored George Clooney as the voice of Optimus. If they went with that, all we&#39;d be thinking is: it&#39;s Clooney as a truck. Same goes with any other person they get for voices. Using an A-list actor would be a huge mistake, in this person&#39;s opinion.

  • July 13, 2006, 6:59 a.m. CST

    Wikipedia on MotorMaster

    by Thenedain

    "Motormaster: Kenworth K100 aerodyne sleeper semi truck, Tractor-trailer (team leader). Frequently uses his bulk and strength to crash into other vehicles and even buildings. Desires to go one-on-one with Optimus Prime in order to claim the title "King of the Road". Hated and feared by the other Stunticons. Motto: These wheels were made for crushing." Sounds about right to me. Turns out I was mistaken, musta confused one of the comics versions for the cartoon version, that truck model is a cabover. However, here&#39;s a pic of it in black, a model on ebay. Looks about right to me.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:05 a.m. CST

    You really should have read the rest of the posts...

    by Childe Roland

    ...anchorite, at the very least before spouting off about how "wishy washy" my stance is. I don&#39;t think any of the folks who&#39;ve been arguing with me on this topic would say that about any of the arguments I&#39;ve employed. But I know how much more comfortable and convenient it is for you to make assumptions than to actually figure out the facts. You really are a running talkback joke and the proud owner of the only opinion in this thread that I couldn&#39;t possibly be moved to give shit one about. I&#39;m disappoined in moondoggy, as he and I can usually have discussions on this particular topic with opposing viewpoints and keep things civil. But I think he got caught up in the moment when you tried to turn this into an anti-American witch hunt. I&#39;ve lost some respect for him as a result. And as for Yackbacker, I most assuredly do not work for Bay or Dreamworks and, as I&#39;ve said repeatedly in this talkback, I personally would&#39;ve preferred a G1 red and blue looking Prime for this film. But I completely understand why they might have wanted to go the G2 route. That doesn&#39;t make me anti-patriotic or any less of a franchise fan. It simply makes me capable of understanding that there is more than one way of looking at something. If you (and anyone else here) can&#39;t understand thata, you&#39;re in for a rough time of things in the real world -- as both history and current events have amply demonstrated. Peace.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Childe Roland--you havent seen me uncivilized

    by moondoggy2u

    As I stated earlier, YOU, Roland, and no one else brought up the whole america bashing the moment a few posters, myself included, said that Bay should keep the defining characteristics of Prime no matter if they&#39;re american or not. Some of us speculated that Prime having those characteristics might have helped influence the masses to like him, but that is where it stopped. You couldnt wait to jump in and say something to the effect of,"Let&#39;s not bring america into this because we could go on and on about how autobots are really freedom fighters and america is really associated with decepticons." Furthermore, you said it in such an elitist, snide fashion, that many of us, myself included were insulted by that obviously prejudiced remark. The fact is, Roland, you were called out on it, you refuse to even achknowledge that you were WAAYY out of line, and superninja, anchorite, and I called took you to task for it. Even now, you refuse to even achknowledge my repeated efforts at pointing this out and are pulling the charlie brown routine (why&#39;s everybody always picking on me?). It has nothing to do with us being uncvilized or holding our tempers at bay, which ALL of us did, but rather, with your obvious attitude problem; you can&#39;t handle a debate, are given to spouting out unrelated prejudices, and when corrected, you refuse to achknowledge your mistakes and act as though you are persecuted. At least, that is what you&#39;ve been doing throughout this thread, rolande. I hope this isnt a habit.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:41 a.m. CST

    and need I remind you, roland

    by moondoggy2u

    That I was the very first one to point out that you were over reaching, providing blanket statements, and acting in a prejudicial manner in the nicest way possible. I didnt debate you point by point, I didnt call you a "fucking loser" or tell you to "hump off, douche bag" or anything so crass and underhanded. I merely pointed out your mistake in oversimplifying an unrelated political debate, and based upon your conclusions of said even, you lump culture(the masses) with political actions (made by a few). Even then, I pointed it out via analogy and far less snarkiness than was utilized by you, Roland. You can run from that point all you want, which you seemingly are, but that doesnt change its origin, accuracy, or effectiveness.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:41 a.m. CST

    by syco

    that pic of megatron is from the alternators toy line

  • July 13, 2006, 8:41 a.m. CST

    by syco

    that pic of megatron is from the alternators toy line

  • July 13, 2006, 8:43 a.m. CST

    oops. thats "said event," not "said even"

    by moondoggy2u

  • July 13, 2006, 8:44 a.m. CST

    megs gun form....

    by syco

    was used as a gun because of the diaclone toys. he was a walther p-38 in the late 70s early 80s that actually shot plastic pellets before he was a transformer

  • July 13, 2006, 8:45 a.m. CST

    It amazes me to this day how hard it is to appologize

    by moondoggy2u

    for some people.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:48 a.m. CST

    syco--you mean that the megatron toy actually shot

    by moondoggy2u

    plastic pellets? Wow! Thats a pretty neat toy; I had no idea it could do that. I had always thought that the megatron toy was the ugliest looking transformer toy and didnt look a thing like the cartoon and had wondered why it was so popular. Now I know. Learn something new every day, dont you?

  • July 13, 2006, 8:53 a.m. CST

    And for the last time, roland, I&#39;m not on a whitch hunt

    by moondoggy2u

    You arent being falsely persecuted and this is NOT an excercise in McCarthyism. Were you to open your ears, you&#39;d realize that I was on your case for NOT being open minded, making blanket statements, and assuming guilt by association. I called you out for your PREJUDICE and BIAS simply because this country&#39;s government is doing something you dont agree with.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Plastic pellets

    by Thenedain

    Yup. Unless I&#39;m totally off my kilter here, I seem to recall that the Takara reissue of Megatron even came with plastic pellets to shoot from it. Nearly positive it did, as that reissue was totally stacked. I know people today who pay a small fortune to get it off eBay because of the neat added stuff with the toy.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:55 a.m. CST

    wow, that last post reads badly.

    by moondoggy2u

    I meant to say that I called you out for the prejudice and bias you employed in an unrelated topic, prejudice that you seem to harbor simply because this counry&#39;s government is doing something you dont agree with.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Alternators Megatrion

    by Thenedain

    If that toy ever ends up surfacing, I&#39;ll have to have one. It&#39;s a pretty sweet looking design. After having time to think about it since first seeing it, I definitely dig the tan desert camo look. Pretty cool.

  • July 13, 2006, 8:59 a.m. CST

    Yeah, the tank megatron does look better.

    by moondoggy2u

    Yeah, a walter p38 that fires is certainly fun for a kid, but the tank megatron&#39;s robot form actually looks like he can kick some ass. Again, that was always my problem--megatron just didnt seem like he could hold up against optimus, but as a tank transformer, he looks like he could actually rip Prime a new one. I like it and hope they duplicate it for the film.

  • July 13, 2006, 9:08 a.m. CST

    megatron alternator comes out in november or septenber

    by syco

    please some one help me find the cullen boycott was an online petition i signed over 2 yrs ago but i lost track of it when my pc crashed

  • July 13, 2006, 9:18 a.m. CST

    found it!!

    by syco sign it and tell everyone to sign it!! im one of the first 10 on there

  • July 13, 2006, 9:35 a.m. CST

    You protest way too much, moondoggy.

    by Childe Roland

    As I pointed out in the one thread where I warned you against turning Optimus Prime into a symbol of the U.S. (sorry, pal, but you and others had some out prior to that and insisted that Prime&#39;s Americanism was critical to the character, which even Cullen never said), I don&#39;t like bringing politics into entertainment debates. You accused Bay and Dreamworks of making a politically motivated decision and insinuated that it would somehow diminish the character symbolically and intrinsically if he were not red, white and blue. Don&#39;t try to backpedal now and paint yourself as someone who was saying Prime&#39;s attributes COULD be interpreted as were insisting that this was the only way to see him for American transformer fans, and that&#39;s simply not true. The comparison I used to underscore my warning (and I didn&#39;t even name names in the Iraq analogy...amazing how self evident it was without that, huh?) was just an example of how one can read anything into anything if one so chooses. It obviously didn&#39;t sit well with you, but that&#39;s really a you problem. Don&#39;t imagine that you have scolded or schooled me on anything, teacher. You&#39;ve merely shown yourself to be incapable of debating a topic objectively, unclouded by personal bias, and when you realized you couldn&#39;t keep up with me sticking to logic and the facts, you turned to attacks on my character. That&#39;s a tired and transparent tactic, which I once thought beneath you. However, you&#39;ve amply demonstrated your limited capacity for intelligent discourse and I won&#39;t overestimate you again.

  • July 13, 2006, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Okay roland

    by moondoggy2u

    Its hardly backpeddling. The fact is, most people in america see that character as a part of americana due to either its characteristics or popularity (or both). The fact is that you couldnt handle that statement and fought every single tb&#39;er about this every step of the way. You said it was chance that cullen imitated wayne, chance that the character had red white and blue, chance that it was an 18 wheeler, the show was in fact entirely japanese save for being dubbed over, blah, blah, blah. And in every point, every single argument you made, you were shown to be wrong. And yes, I do believe it would seriously diminish the show to take away the defining characteristics that made its main character so memorable, whether because of americanism or other doesnt matter, they ARE the defining characteristics. The problem, as is obvious to anyone who scrolls to your post, is that you dont want any american culture in the show, whether overt or implied, because you have a problem with politics, and now, as of your last post, its become painfully obvious your just making up the order of the posts as you go along, seeing what you want to see and believing what you want to believe rather than what has already been proven. Go cling to your dillusions, Roland, and leave the realities of our complaints and criticisms to those adult enough to handle it. I&#39;m done with you.

  • July 13, 2006, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Quint&#39;s Issues about Secrecy

    by NubtheSquirrel

    Quint, I know you probably won&#39;t read this as it&#39;s so advanced down the posts but I can understand your frustration over the studio keeping the robots under wraps. Perhaps they are doing what they feel is best for the fans. Perhaps it is to maintain a surprise for the doubters and the haters for when they do go see the movie they end up loving the movie so much that they end up praising the studio for maintaining the secrecy. The same was done for Jurassic Park. And it worked perfectly. Then again, that was an era where the internet was essentially in its infancy so pictures like the one you guys showed here could have never shown up. I for one will be happy to at the very least hear that Cullen is onboard but I can wait to see the robots when the movie opens. That way it does not ruin any surprise for me.

  • July 13, 2006, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Just so you dont think Im being mean with you

    by moondoggy2u

    Where you and I are differing greatly is that you cant seem to sepperate politics from culture. Because something is american, russian, japanese, etc. does not mean that something is political. The definining characteristics of Prime are very IDENTICAL to other cultural icons in our society. I agree, much of it is subtle, but its still there. Now, what Ive been saying post after post after post is that whether or not you identified with that character because of the american aspects (which Im sure were designed to appeal to as many american kids as possible, even on a subtle level)or because you just thought the character was kickass and nothing else does not matter to me. What does matter to me in the long run, which is my ultimate comlaint with BAY, is that the clear majority of the movie going audience has accepted the 80&#39;s version of Prime as a part of the culture. TO ditch those characteristics, I feel, as do the clear majority of talk backers here, is a very stupid business decision, which, in my opinion, borders on fear and arrogance. DO you understand, Roland? Thats my complaint with Bay. My complaint with you is your apparent unwillingness to accept the notion that americana or cultural pride/endorsement has NOTHING to do with certain decisions made by politicians. In my experience as a teacher, a small-time journalist, and as a human being, that unacceptance and inability to differentiate smacks of bias and prejudice, for which I do not subscribe.

  • July 13, 2006, 10:56 a.m. CST

    You sure dig the revisionist view of history...

    by Childe Roland

    ...moondoggy. I never said it was chance that Cullen made Prime sound like Wayne. I merely said I doubted he was making a deliberate choice to cast the character as a symbol of America...and the man&#39;s own words support that. I also never said it was chance that Prime was red and blue with white and gray. I merely pointed out that these colors do not ALWAYS symbolize America (which any monkey who&#39;s been to the UN building or traveled outside the U.S. could tell you, teacher). The one error I made was in confusing the original cartoon with the later Robots in Disguise toon in terms of how it was produced. And ultimately, that&#39;s irrelevant. The Japanese designed the toy to be red and blue before the cartoon was made. Remember DeNiro&#39;s words to Stiller in Meet the Parents? "They say geniuses pick green, but you didn&#39;t pick the color, did you Fokker?" Why the toy manufacturers picked those colors is anyone&#39;s guess (maybe because they knew so many different countries used the colors in their flags and thought this might give the toy more international appeal...who knows?). But I think it&#39;s safe to assume, especially with their renowned ethnocentricity (which you pointed out earlier) that they weren&#39;t creating him as an American symbol. As for the concept of Americana and cultural pride being distinct from the actions of politicians, maybe you ought to read more of what I&#39;ve actually typed on that subject. You&#39;ll see that my chief criticism of today&#39;s politicians (and not just on one side of the party divide) is that they have perverted the ideals upon which this nation was founded (you used the word thug to describe the man in the white house, I&#39;d call him more of a dupe for certain special interests, but that&#39;s ultimately irrelevant to the Transformers). Seems to me I made the distinction between the ideas and the people corrupting them pretty clear. You&#39;ve been trying to make me out as someone who&#39;s in favor of ditching the G1 color scheme so you can pigeonhole me into some hyper-politically correct liberal template that you feel confident in taking shots at, but you seem to forget I&#39;ve come out and said I prefer the G1 design personally. Where you and I have differed (on the subject at hand) is in your insistence that Prime must be viewed as an American icon (which is BS) and that there is no good reason to use any design other than the G1 scheme (which is entirely a matter of your opinion). So that bias you&#39;re smelling? It&#39;s you. You&#39;re soaking in it.

  • July 13, 2006, 11:05 a.m. CST

    And Yackbacker...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I wouldn&#39;t have to keep repeating the same arguments if folks like moondoggy would stop incorrectly paraphrasing them to suit their preferred view of reality. Thanks, though, for acknowledging that I&#39;ve been consistent all along.

  • July 13, 2006, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Re: Voice actors

    by BLWiseass

    The general public is going to see this movie because its about huge robots doing battle with Michael Bay explosions. To have a celebrity voice any of the transformers would be distracting. It would be much bettert to get relative unknowns to do the voicework, and Welker and Cullen fall into that category. The fans will love it, and the public will not be upset that the voice of Optimus or Megatron is not on the cover of their grocery store tabloid

  • July 13, 2006, 11:16 a.m. CST

    hmmm roland

    by moondoggy2u

    The problem is that I, and many other talkbackers, said that Prime as he was depicted in the eighties cartoon had distinctly american characteristics. Now, whether you agree or disagree doesnt change the fact that I WASNT TALKING ABOUT POLITICS. You immediately went into a diatribe in which you stated that you hated to bring politics into this because the government was acting in an evil manner in Iraq. You, of course, are free to feel this way, but it doesnt change the fact that NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT POLITICS. We were talking about CULTURAL references, not political. Now, youre free to debate whether those references exist or not (you might find you are in the clear minority), but that doesnt change the fact that WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AMERICANISM and NOT POLITICS. That is why I say you are having problems differentiating between cultural identity and politics, Roland. Its not a matter of bias or prejudice on anyone&#39;s part but yours because of your apparent lack to understand my point. WE WERENT TALKING ABOUT POLITICS. YOU BROUGHT IT UP. By the way, Ive gone through these posts like twice and Ive yet to see where Ive called bush a thug. If I did, however, I mispoke.

  • July 13, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Once again, please ban Twenty Fourth

    by Chief Redcock

    Pretty please

  • July 13, 2006, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Paramount. Have Pat Lee Design the Posters!

    by R.C. the "Wise"

  • July 13, 2006, 11:58 a.m. CST

    If Paramount comes to the ComicCon, everyone should boo

    by R.C. the "Wise"

    as well as chant FUCK YOU! RESTORE PRIME!

  • July 13, 2006, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Roland WTF man.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Having read through all of this I have to ask why it is so important to you that Prime NOT be a symbol of America/Americana? Is that really such an awful thing?

  • July 13, 2006, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Can anyone answer this?

    by Cepper

    I don&#39;t know why everyone is arguing about what color Optimus will be. The important question is: Will Omega Supreme and/or Metroplex be in the movie??! A climax featuring the "big boys" will decide whether this movies succeeds or fails.

  • July 13, 2006, 12:51 p.m. CST

    It really doesn&#39;t matter to me, Nutsack, if you...

    by Childe Roland

    ...or moondoggy or anyone else wants to interpret Prime as a symbol of America or Americanism, and I don&#39;t think there&#39;s anything wrong with someone wanting to do that. My problem comes when someone claims or insinuates that this is the only right way to interpret the character or tries to lend credence to this interpretation by saying it&#39;s what everyone or most people see when they look at the character. I&#39;ve pointed out that there are many different possible and equally valid interpretations of Prime (being a character in an international franchise). But Guys like moondoggy just can&#39;t seem to let their opinions stand as their own opinions. Maybe it&#39;s insecurity or some sort of compulsive need to feel he&#39;s in the majority on every issue (I have to wonder if this is a product of his being a teacher and perhaps exposed to a similar dynamic on a daily basis), but he and guys like him want to be "right" even when right and wrong aren&#39;t options (as Cusack said in High Fidelity: "How can it be bullshit to state a preference?"). At this point I&#39;m just having fun watching him try to couch his arguement in a way that doesn&#39;t make him sound like a narrow-minded douchebag. My favorite so far was his attempt to turn it around and make me seem inherently biased against the very version of Prime I would&#39;ve preferred to see used in the movie (G1, red and blue). I guess he saw his opening for that kind of attack when anchorite tried to cast me as anti-American or anti-Patriotic (if they had a search function on this site, I&#39;d highly recommend looking up anchorite&#39;s and my previous clashes on the;d quickly see that nothing could be further from the truth) so that anyone who might agree (or sympathize...that&#39;s a much better word, isn&#39;t it?) with me would automatically be siding against America. Gee...where else have I seen that tactic employed recently?

  • July 13, 2006, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Chief Redcock

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Who is this Twenty Fourth you speak of? I don&#39;t see him...

  • July 13, 2006, 1:54 p.m. CST

    that pic could also be....

    by syco

    scourge or nemisis prime

  • July 13, 2006, 2:18 p.m. CST

    It could, indeed, syco...

    by Childe Roland

    ...and that would be extra special funny in an almost Emily Litella sort of way. "Oh! Well that&#39;s very different. Never mind."

  • July 13, 2006, 2:26 p.m. CST


    by Phategod2

    was a sweep from the movie a futuristic hover craft thing

  • July 13, 2006, 2:35 p.m. CST


    by Phategod2

    there was a black truck called scourge he was one of those weak Transformer:RID characters

  • July 13, 2006, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Childe, Hairy, Moondog, etc.

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    Correct me if I&#39;m wong, but aren&#39;t the Transformers from a completely different planet than Earth? And if so, then how could they be representitive of anything or anyone on Earth? In that light, wouldn&#39;t it make more sense to make the two groups of Transformers representative of general human ideals and human nature? Optimus as our better selves; and Megatron as one our worse. Seems like it would play better and would allow the movie makers to completely avoid offending anyone by staying abstract, yet everyone in the audience could still identify with it.

  • July 13, 2006, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Yackbacker, first off...

    by Childe Roland

    ...don&#39;t presume to tell me what to do. Really. It&#39;s just funny. Second, I didn&#39;t drag the debate anywhere it hadn&#39;t gone before my post that got everyone so riled up (seriously, you&#39;d think I&#39;d shown you all pictures of your parents having sex based on how primal the reaction was). And that post was an up-front disclaimed example of why taking the debate in the political direction (which others had done, accusing Bay of trying to appease anti-American audiences) was a bad idea. If you didn&#39;t like it, you&#39;re not alone. I didn&#39;t like doing it, but it needed doing to get a fair number of folks&#39; heads out of their asses. Third, congratulations. You&#39;ve grasped a point I tried to make more than a day ago. Prime COULD have been a fire truck and he COULD have been a gorilla. He wasn&#39;t. He&#39;s a truck (if the picture was even accurate). You&#39;re all hung up on the color and make of that truck. So are others, but in order to lend this hang up weight, they&#39;ve ascribed some sort of nationalism to a character based on an international toy. To me, that&#39;s a reach. It smacks of someone who wants their opinion to be more important than it is. In fact, you and others have tried to do to me what you were trying to do to Bay when I called you on it: undermine my position by casting me as anti-American. If you thinkk I&#39;m going to let that slide, you haven&#39;t learmned much in this talkback. I haven&#39;t countered any argument that hadn&#39;t been made. In fact, I constructed my counters very carefully, addressing statements point for point. So you can try and weigh in with some sweeping "final word" on the subject, but you just look like a clown. And unless you&#39;ve acquired those sales figures we&#39;ve talked about, you really can&#39;t say with any degree of certainty what the most popular version of Prime was. Sorry. It&#39;s just another out-of-ass statement. Sure, on this board and one that was linked to (specifically about the movie) it appears most english-speaking posters who frequent movie sites prefer G1 Prime. That&#39;s a pretty limited sample. And many of those are admittedly not ongoing fans of the toyline. Link to a poll on an international Transformers toy board that shows similar results and you&#39;ll be more likely to convince me. Until then, you&#39;re still blowing the same smoke in an effort to convince yourself Bay has somehow raped your childhood.

  • July 13, 2006, 2:46 p.m. CST


    by Phategod2

    by doing that blatantly then we have all the errors by staying abstract we have optimus as a black truck just for the simple fact of not Identifying him as american. If people want to see American subtext in his nature because of his paint scheme let them. I&#39;d much rather someone be offended by the fact He is too american then just getting Bayliner truck as his robot form.

  • July 13, 2006, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Getting Back to the Point

    by Phategod2

    If Bay was to read this post right now He probably would decide he&#39;s doing the right thing too many people arguing about the socio-political aspect of the main character based on his paint scheme. people the big picture is OPTIMUS PRIME WAS RED AND BLUE. plain and simple. Just like superman, just like spiderman. Daredevil suit was red, the hulks most famous color is green and there is no disputing those facts so please get back to the point before Bays; George Lucas like Ego ruins this movie.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:05 p.m. CST

    That was your version of ownage?

    by Childe Roland

    Wiki-fucking-pedia? Please. You know who writes those entries? Guys like you. And everything in your previous post is coming form a distinctly American editorial point of view. On the same site, it says: "However, when US line was canceled, Japan series continued on long after with its own story, anime shows and toys. In 1996, Takara again imported US series the Beast Wars to Japan. The line was quite successful there that Takara released its own series Beast Wars 2 and Neo-Beast Wars completed with new toys and TV shows. In 2000, Takara went back to the vehicle concept and released the the Car Robot series. (The name was homage to Diaclone line). Hasbro later imported the Car Robot series for the US market. The two Transformers - US and Japan lines again converged as one. Takara and Hasbro decided to release new Transformers as a joint venture." So it looks like even from this guy&#39;s perspective, the international market kept the property alive after it "kind of died" in the states. So why, again, should Bay say "fuck you" to the international market? Oh, that&#39;s like things much simpler than that. How&#39;s this: If Bay and Dreamworks were catering to an exclusively U.S. casual transformer fan/80s nostalgia buff audience, then absolutely G1 red and blue Prime would have been the smartest way to go. Clearly (if the photo shown was Prime) they aren&#39;t doing that, though. They&#39;re thinking about a bigger target market (primarily kids who won&#39;t care and would probably dig the flames, but including the powerful fan following transformers have internationally), and your preference (as well as mine) has apparently been marginalized. That&#39;s really the only fact we have to work with that&#39;s even remotely relevant to the ultimate outcome. Do you really think a guy like Spielberg would be backing a project like this if he (who learned movie toy tie-in marketing alongside the undisputed master) wasn&#39;t pretty sure he had a main character his true target audience would buy (literally)? It&#39;s a happy little nostalgic world you live in, then. I&#39;m betting you&#39;ll still get a day pass from it to come out and see this movie, though.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:05 p.m. CST

    for fuck&#39;s sake

    by Chet Hudson

    it&#39;s a movie about robots from outer space that turn into vehicles. Get over yourselves.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Amen, Chet...

    by Pawprint

    For Fuck&#39;s Sake - Optimus Prime isn&#39;t American - we had Transformers in the UK too you know, and nobody read any kind of National pride into the colour scheme of a fucking plastic toy based on a sodding cartoon. I haven&#39;t come across many Brits stamping their feet like spoiled children because Prime doesn&#39;t have &#39;Union Jack&#39; colours. Like I said in the other Transformers TB - I don&#39;t care if they make Prime, Bumblebee, Starscream et al pink with luminous green cocks stencilled on them; I don&#39;t care if Megatron transforms into a huge dildo with snap-on nasal hair-removal trimmers as long as we see big fucking robots smashing the fuck out of each other and the surrounding area in convincing style.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:22 p.m. CST


    by Phategod2

    of high brow converstion

  • July 13, 2006, 3:25 p.m. CST

    This Talkback.....

    by Dr. Opticus

    is the gayest thing I&#39;ve seen since Harrys gushing Phantom Menace review! Transformer fans should feel lucky anyone is stupid enough to commit money and time to such a ridiculous film. This money could be spent making the Hobbit or my movie...

  • July 13, 2006, 3:37 p.m. CST

    It&#39;s pretty simple, Yackbacker...

    by Childe Roland

    ...if you stop making sweeping general statements you can&#39;t back up with hard data, I&#39;ll get off your back. I apologize, by the way, for lumping you in with moondoggy and anchorite (for a while, there, it was hard to keep you three straight), who most certainly called me anti-Patriotic and anti-American. If you&#39;re all for divorcing the issue from politics and nationalism, then more power to you. BUt keep in mind that thing about not making sweeping generalizations you can&#39;t back up. It&#39;ll hamstring you every time.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:37 p.m. CST

    i hope the movie ti in toys are made of metal

    by slappy jones

  • July 13, 2006, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Has it ever occured to you...

    by Thenedain

    that nearly every version of Prime has the distinctive red/blue color scheme? EVERY G1 Version, including Action Masters, all rereleases of the G1 Version, the new Classics version, hell even Optimus Primal, who wasn&#39;t Optimus Prime btw, still carried the iconic red/blue colors in his robot form! The very Japanese anime style Armada series on even uses the red/blue scheme for Optimus. Again, look back to the link I posted showing the various toys: 17 of 21 are red/blue. Of the others, one isn&#39;t even Prime, it&#39;s the white Magnus truck. Sorry, you have no argument here. Even the Japanese audience seems to prefer the red/blue version. Behold: one of the newest Prime toys, in the Cybertron line: See the colors? That&#39;s right, Rolande, RED AND FUCKING BLUE. This toy is based directly off the Japanese animated and culturally dominated current cartoons. Armada Optimus Prime, seen here: Red and fucking blue. For fuck&#39;s sake, even the new Alternators version of Optimus Prime, seen here: is RED AND FUCKING BLUE. Get over yourself Rolande. There&#39;s no fucking way you can tell me that a Black fucking Optimus Prime is even remotely preferred by the Transformers fanbase.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Damn it, Yackbacker, just when I was ready to...

    by Childe Roland

    ...let you go your way in peace, you make an ass of yourself and force me to call attention to it. You completely misinterpreted me if you think I&#39;m suggesting that Bay&#39;s catering to my desires over yours. Did you miss my repeated admissions, both yesterday and today, that I, personally, would prefer the G1 blue and red Prime or is that creating some sort of causal loop problem for your primitive logic center (you can prefer one thing and understand another, it&#39;s perfectly normal)? Then you confuse the very pages you quoted to me. I discounted Wikipedia because it is discountable on most subjects requiring an objective perspective. I quoted to you from the other site you provided a link for, in the post before you quoted Wikipedia. What kind of idiot can&#39;t even keep his own sources (remember, you introduced both of them) straight in a debate? Really, you&#39;re just wasting my time now and hoping no one who gives a shit about this is going to read back and see how incompetent you are.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:44 p.m. CST

    The Hobbit ?

    by Phategod2

    I God not more Prequels that is the Gayest thing ever next to a full motion film version of one the Most boring anime&#39;s of all time and scroll up to see what im talking about.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:48 p.m. CST

    if it&#39;s not going look enough like the series

    by alexadroog

    then why make a transformers movie call it something else...but other then the prime picture I&#39;m thinking everthing else is looking good. I like that the camero is yellow...and i hope they keep up with the bright me it make them look like characters. If only he does make it seem too real and keeps the fantasy feel in it.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:48 p.m. CST

    I wasn&#39;t talking about changing their looks or colors.

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    Haven&#39;t all the major Transformers maintained their same basic looks and color schemes since they debuted in the 1980&#39;s? A red and blue Optimus battling a silver and white Megatron are emblematic of the entire series. Michael Bay and his associates aren&#39;t thinking too straight if they are planning on changing them. You are right, Phategod2, these days people are capable of reading anything into anything and getting offended by it.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:49 p.m. CST

    So what do you want to argue now, Thenedain?

    by Childe Roland

    That you&#39;d prefer the Armada version of Optimus to G2? My point has always been that any version of the character (oh, yeah, were dead wrong in calling the G2 design non-canon, you&#39;re having a really off day) would have been an acceptable template for movie Prime. I, myself, would&#39;ve preferred G1, but I know there are fans who prefer G2. It appears that Bay and Dreamworks decided, for whatever reason, that NOT going with the red and blue used in most of the American releases of the character was the thing to do. Spielberg isn&#39;t worried that it&#39;ll hurt his profit margin. Hasbro isn&#39;t worried that it will hurt toy sales. I&#39;m not going to let it dissuade me from giving the movie a chance to capture the essence of the character, which even Cullen recognized had nothing to do with what he looked like. Keep trying to convince yourself the franchise, the character and you personally have been somehow betrayed, though. It&#39;s quite funny.

  • July 13, 2006, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Hell Yes The Hobbit....

    by Dr. Opticus

    I want to see the archer shoot Smaug, I want to see The elves get drunk, I want to see the spiders attack, I want to see the end battle I want it, I want it!

  • July 13, 2006, 3:51 p.m. CST


    by Phategod2

    Could we reach some ending point of this fight Childe would prefer the red and blue Prime and so does Yackbacker. Waters wet the sky is blue and ole Satan clause is out to get you.

  • July 13, 2006, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Roland, you miss the point yet again.

    by Thenedain

    My point, which has remained constant, is that there is no reason, whatsoever, that the filmmakers should not use the red/blue color scheme. It&#39;s about marketability and sales, both to the casual movie goer and the hardcore Transformers fan. Sure, any version of Prime COULD be the template for the movie version. You&#39;ve constantly said that there&#39;s supposedly this large group of fandom that absolutely prefers the G2 version over the G1, and I have consistently provided you with enough proof, based solely on toy designs, that the overwhelming majority of fans would prefer the G1 version. It&#39;s very simple: even the Japanese Takara reissues of Optimus Prime are the CLASSIC G1 Prime, in his CLASSIC G1 colors. You don&#39;t think that choice was made due to customer demand? Armada was created for the Japanese audience originally, before being brought over to the US. Guess what? That Prime shared the classic G1 colors. Sure, Prime could be purple and orange, decked out with petunias and they could still capture the essence of the character. However, the majority of fans won&#39;t buy it. They&#39;ll be turned off by a Prime that doesn&#39;t meet their expectations. EVERY Transformers fan has said they can change the designs of the vehicle forms all they want: so long as they capture the feel and look of the characters in the process. Part of Optimus Prime IS his distinct, all primary color look. The overwhelming majority of the Autobots were bright colors, because they were the GOOD guys. Making Prime a black truck changes the initial vibe, and becomes an instant turn off. Worse yet, I honestly believe that not going with a classic look for Prime, the one character most people say they HAVE to get right, will hurt their box office. American audiences, who make up the overwhelming majority of film goers, won&#39;t buy it past the opening and it&#39;ll be killed by word of mouth. I can also nearly guarantee you that the Japanese audience won&#39;t buy it either. You may not remember when the American Godzilla was released in Japan, I do. At best it was scorned. My friend, a Japanese citizen who went to the opening night, often tells the story of how the fans in the theater nearly rioted at how *their* monster was butchered by the American filmmakers. I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that a black Prime in the live action movie will go over with the Japanese audience about as well as Godzilla being a giant iguana.

  • July 13, 2006, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Yack strikes again

    by Thenedain

    The sad fact is that we&#39;ve provided him facts, more than enough mind you, showing why any choice for Prime other than the G1 version stinks of directorial hubris and ego more than anything else. The numbers simply do not point to any reason why Hasbro would allow Bay to go with a black truck. It just doesn&#39;t fit. Hasbro themselves conceded the point by creating a Classic line with, lo and behold, a red and blue Prime. Takara even jumps on the bandwagon by reissuing Prime/Convoy multiple times as the red/blue version. Only now are they preparing to reissue the G2 Laser Optimus, which might very well have a following with collectors, but cannot be said to have been universally embraced by Tfandom. Likewise, myself and many of my friends will be sitting this film out if they do indeed go the way it looks like they might be going with Prime. I&#39;d sooner fry my testicles in beer batter than watch yet another 80s icon from my childhood be butchered for the sake of &#39;directorial vision&#39; when the hard facts still show that the classics shouldn&#39;t ever be messed with.

  • July 13, 2006, 4:36 p.m. CST

    First, Yackbacker, wow...

    by Childe Roland by pointing out that a criticism you made of my with great glee and some seeming sense of final victory was actually a bone-headed mistake on your part (even moreso because you failed to recognize a source you usedd to support your side of an argument) I&#39;ve taken the coward&#39;s way out of the debate. Okay. Sure. That makes worlds of sense. And your insistence that no data is needed to back a statement about what the most popular selling product in a line was or wasn&#39;t is equally asinine. You clearly don&#39;t work for a company with a marketing budget. Really, you continue to bring nothing but the dumb. So we&#39;re done. As for you, Thenedain, get your facts straight. I never said more fans preferred G2 to G1. Not once. I said that die-hard G1 fans represent a minority of all current Transfans the world over (why do you think lines like Energon and Armada and Cybertron continue to sell so well? Not everyone buying them is an adult collector with an affinity for all things 80s). I said there are (and there are because I&#39;ve corresponded with them) those who definitely prefer G2 to G1. I never speculated as to that faction&#39;s size. Check out the TF toy fan boards (not movie sites) for an indication of the relative sizes of the various fan factions. It won&#39;t be a perfect snapshot, but it will give you an idea of the larger picture. Point is, there&#39;s more than one fan faction if you&#39;re dividing folks by preference for a particular iteration of the property. Not all of them have their own version of Prime, but many do. I&#39;m simply saying that any other fan&#39;s preferred interpretation of Prime is no less legitimate than yours or mine, and that it&#39;s possible that Bay and Dreamworks took that into account in making their decision. Also, you&#39;re assuming an awful lot about American movie going audiences in general and the target audience for this movie in particular. You still seem to think it&#39;s comprised mainly of discerning adult collectors of G1 only or nostalgia buffs who would know who Prime was if he rolled over them in truck mode. That&#39;s simply not true. Granted, those guys (and they&#39;re almost all guys) will go, despite their insistence that they have the willpower to stay away. But they won&#39;t be the most numerous folks in the theaters. In the U.S., it&#39;s going to be kids. Many of those kids are probably going to be like my nephew, who DVRs the horrible current Transformers toon on Carton Network. He&#39;s got Armada Prime and he knows exactly who the character is. But he&#39;s also got a Masterpiece Prime I gave him and he refers to that as "Prime in his oold costume." So he&#39;s not going to be too shaken up if Prime looks different from that in the movie. In fact, he&#39;ll probably ask when he can have "flames" Prime. Then there are all the kids who won&#39;t really know what Transformers are but will be sucked in by a trailer featuring giant robots. And don&#39;t forget the parents of all these kids, who are going to go along and perhaps nap in the seat. Don&#39;t believe me? Remember Fantastic Four? Die-hard fan pre-hate for that movie was overwhelming (thanks in no small part to Harry), yet it did bang-up box office domestically. Changes to the looks of the characters (which were actually quite similar in nature to this supposed change in that they did draw from previous looks of the same characters) did not cripple that movie and neither did word of mouth. That&#39;s really only happened the one time, to my knowledge, with Catwoman, which is a whole different animal considering the movie wasn&#39;t being marketed to kids at all. Now factor in the international audience, much of which simply does not have the same very specific preference for G1 Prime and some of whom (particularly in Asia) actually have a preference for the G2, and the change makes a lot more sense from Bay&#39;s and Dreamworks&#39; perspective. Again, much like Chris Rock says about OJ: "It&#39;s not what I would&#39;ve done, but I understand."

  • July 13, 2006, 4:58 p.m. CST

    You&#39;re misquoting again.

    by Thenedain

    My exact quote was: "You&#39;ve constantly said that there&#39;s supposedly this large group of fandom that absolutely prefers the G2 version over the G1, and I have consistently provided you with enough proof, based solely on toy designs, that the overwhelming majority of fans would prefer the G1 version." I never proclaimed that you said that the G2 fans were the majority. I stated, quite plainly, that this body of G2 fans is among the most quiet body of fans I&#39;ve seen. I frequent many Transformers sites, and have attended multiple BotCons. I&#39;ve never seen a single person there decked out in G2 Prime memorabilia, even fanmade. And again, you miss the point I&#39;m making: the standard accepted colors for Optimus Prime are red and blue. You say yourself that your nephew watches Armada, where the Prime there is... red and blue. I could care less about the design of the truck. I could give two shits if it&#39;s the classic G1 cabover, or the whacky Armada looking Prime. Christ, he could be a motorcycle for all I friggin&#39; care: it&#39;s his colors and voice that matter to me. The hard facts, shown again and again, by the toy manufacturers and cartoon makers themselves, point to red and blue being the most popular Prime colors. And you&#39;re putting words in my mouth: I never said what the target audience would be, however I can guess that it&#39;ll be marketed both to children and adults who would be familiar with the Transformers franchise. For the record, there&#39;s alot more people familiar with the Transformers franchise than simply " male adults looking for 80s nostalgia " and "hardcore G1 purists". Go to your local mall and enter a Hot Topic. They have Transformers stuff galore, and guess what? Everything featuring Prime has him red and blue. Not everyone who goes in there will know Transformers from Go-bots, but you better damned well believe they&#39;ll know that Prime is supposed to be red and blue. And again, you&#39;re also mistaken: while there is no doubt that the majority of Tfans are male, there is a very, very large group of female fans as well. Transformers were a huge part of the 80s, mentioned repeatedly on VH1&#39;s I Love The 80s shows, and people WILL remember that. The casual person entering a movie theater based solely off recognizing the Transformers name WILL be disappointed if the Prime he remembers from the 80s ( and which can still be seen all over the place today ) isn&#39;t in the film. I don&#39;t see Hard Hero making any G2 statues, nor do I see Takara adding G2 Prime to the very Japanese World&#39;s Smallest Transformers line. You cannot tell me that for a moment it makes any sort of sense to change the colors of Prime from a marketing stand point, even you must doubt that. Millions of dollars in toy revenue cannot simply be discounted.

  • July 13, 2006, 5:02 p.m. CST

    I know someone that is delighted with new color scheme

    by Immortal_Fish

    Steve from Yellowstone. "rrrrrRRAAAMMMOOOOOOOOOOONE!!! Optimus Prime holds Halliburton stock!"

  • July 13, 2006, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Wow. You fucking guys.

    by Immortal_Fish

    I really hate it when TB accounts I tend to keep an eye out for start pissing on each other. Childe. Cullen never said that Optimus is a slice of Americana. However, he is. He evolved into a slice of that, just like Godzilla, the Power Rangers, and the Shogun Warriors. Country of origin doesn&#39;t matter. One thing that Cullen did say is that he based the voice of Optimus on John Wayne. That much we do know. And John Wayne is certainly a slice of Americana, no matter what foreign identity he once lent his own voice to. You are right. Cullen never *said* Optimus is all American, but he may have thought it. Coupled with the red, white, and blue scheme of the classic Optimus most folks can easily recall in their mind, I&#39;d say this string of logic is a no brainer. My opinion. As for the rest of you folks too numerous to mention, please be happy Prime is still a truck. Lookit Bumblebee. The only thing that is the same is the paint job. Optimus could&#39;ve fared far worse. He&#39;s still a truck. And you have to hand it to Childe, Prime is a truck that fully complies with the look of one of the toys. Ultimately, there are MUCH BIGGER fish to fry regarding the adaptation of this property. I&#39;m willing to bet once we see this film next year that we&#39;ll agree it is so very far removed from the source material that we&#39;ll be laughing at how we were once all gung-ho against flames licking Prime&#39;s nips.

  • July 13, 2006, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Yakbacker we still didn&#39;t DUB SHIT.........

    by jegoing74

    The 1984 Cartoon aired first in the United States, the cartoon models were created atleast in part by Floro Dery based on the Diaclone toys. Oh, Floro Dery as told by him explained the Japanese would he erase his signiture on his badass concepts and character models for Transformers the movie. Let&#39;s recap shall we. Takara made the Diaclone toys. Hasbro said wow to the concept. Marvel Comics then was tasked to create a backstory known as Transformers. Had Griffin-Bacal market it Worldwide Phenom was born 1984-Present.

  • July 13, 2006, 5:36 p.m. CST

    I&#39;m not here to make friends, Yackbacker...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I&#39;m here to make points that aren&#39;t being made and to point out how full of it guys like you are. You keep suggesting sales figures aren&#39;t important -- mocking me for asking you to produce them -- yet you keep citing toy sales as backing for your argument. Wait...I&#39;m expecting logic from someone who can&#39;t even be bothered to read all of the relevant material on a site he refers me to in order to prove his point. Never mind. You&#39;re played out and not contributing jack worth a warm shit to the discussion anymore. Thenedain&#39;s become far more interesting. I didn&#39;t misquote you, T. I didn&#39;t use quotes at all. But I will now. You typed: "You&#39;ve constantly said that there&#39;s supposedly this large group of fandom that absolutely prefers the G2 version over the G1," stop right there. I never referred to the size of G2&#39;s fanbase. Check out Yackbacker&#39;s quote from me in the post below yours. I referred to the G2 timeframe as "a significant portion of Transformers history." You inferred some comparative size of fan base comparison directly between G1 and G2. I did, however, compare the relative size of the fan bases (not just talking about the guys on toy boards like me and you, I&#39;m including kids like my nephew who will take any Prime so long as he&#39;s told it&#39;s Prime in there) that are G1 purist versus other and all types of Transformers, domestic and international. There&#39;s a big difference between that and what you tried to have me saying. Back to your words: "and I have consistently provided you with enough proof, based solely on toy designs, that the overwhelming majority of fans would prefer the G1 version" Not sure how the designs of toys are overwhelming proof of what fans prefer. Are you familiar with G.I. Joe at all? I&#39;m sure moondoggy (who mentioned them earlier) is, and will back up the following observation: there is a vocal contingent (estimated to be about 50% of the adult collector base) of fans of that property who are absolutely furious with the way Hasbro has been designing Joes since 2002. They would prefer the construction of the figures be identical to those they enjoyed in the 1980s and have called the newer style figures everything from disproportionate to abominations of all that Joe stands for (I&#39;m not making that up). Yet Hasbro has continued to make the newer style figures (based on whatever market research they&#39;ve done) in greater number than the older stykle (which it continues to release on a very limited basis and through collector&#39;s clubs) and has even moved away from the long-beloved 3&3/4 scale recently with a whole new anime-styled 8-inch version of the franchise and its core characters. My point being, Hasbro didn&#39;t listen to those loud old-school fans because it was trying to market Joe to a newer, younger audience (which has apparently worked, if you believe what Hasbro says about the 8-inch line&#39;s reception...we should ask that HasbroRep guy). So you can&#39;t really hold up the toys the company is making as evidence of what the fans like or want. You need sales figures for that. I&#39;m sorry, you just do. And I didn&#39;t mean to put words into your mouth about the target audience for the film. I had to guess what you meant by: "I honestly believe that not going with a classic look for Prime, the one character most people say they HAVE to get right, will hurt their box office. American audiences, who make up the overwhelming majority of film goers, won&#39;t buy it past the opening and it&#39;ll be killed by word of mouth. I can also nearly guarantee you that the Japanese audience won&#39;t buy it either." Sounds like you were not only predicting who the audience would be, but how they would react. Did I misread? If not, I refer you again to the case of The Fans vs. Fantastic 4. As for your notion that the colors are the most important part of Prime...that he could be a motorcycle for all you care as long as he&#39;s blue and red...that&#39;s interesting to me. I&#39;d like to see how the character would look that way (I&#39;m imagining Cy-Kill from the Go-Bots, but I have no doubt a talented designer and sculptor could make it way cooler than that). I&#39;d also like to see how that notion flies with moondoggy or Yackbacker. I suspect it would get you tied to the same rail they&#39;ve been trying to run me out of dodge on. We can keep fighting if you want to, or you can try respecting someone else&#39;s opinion instead of attempting to discredit it so you can feel better about your own.

  • July 13, 2006, 5:44 p.m. CST

    OK here are the undenyable facts.

    by Thumper2k1

    1) Optimus isn&#39;t an american icon. You guys identify him as an american icon. Japanese people will probably identify as a japanese icon. and so forth. 2)Optimus was based on a Japanese toy. 3) Peter Cullen is canadian. 4) The movie design of Optimus sucks. Thank you and good day.

  • July 13, 2006, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Amen Yackbacker

    by Phategod2

    on to bigger fish to fry the Flaming Bayliner truck.

  • July 13, 2006, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Bumblebee pic - roboform

    by Brendon

  • July 13, 2006, 6 p.m. CST

    Yackbacker--you arent alone

    by moondoggy2u

    I wouldnt see the movie either. Furthermore, I dont think there&#39;s been a single soul who hasnt pointed out the painfully obvious errors and attitude problems that Roland has been making throughout this thread. He&#39;s the kind who obviously likes to keep his dignity and never say,"oops, I&#39;m wrong" on his major points. Hell, many of us are like that, so I&#39;m not really going to fault him for it. Besides, I imagine he&#39;s already gotten enough shit from us for one thread. We all know exactly what&#39;s been going on and the only one who doesnt is Roland himself. In fact, Ive never seen a TB board so unanimously against a single talkbacker during my three years here--save for the homewrecker/ringbear9/movie mack disputes. Just let it go; there&#39;s no further point.

  • July 13, 2006, 6:06 p.m. CST

    This will make me a total tool

    by moondoggy2u